From: owner-h-costume-digest (H-Costume Digest) To: h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Subject: H-Costume Digest V3 #247 Reply-To: h-costume Sender: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Errors-To: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk H-Costume Digest Friday, November 10 1995 Volume 3, Number 247 Compilation copyright (C) 1995 Diane Barlow Close and Gretchen Miller Use in whole prohibited. Individual articles are the property of the author. Seek permission from that author before reprinting or quoting elsewhere. Important Addresses: Send submissions to: h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com (or reply to this message). Adds/drops/archives: majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com Real, live person: h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Topics: Military Medieval Gloves Re: Military Medieval Gloves Gloves and Gauntlets Re: ISBN#, John Scott is right but to confuse matters... re: corset web page FW: Corset Web Page Re: H-Costume Digest V3 #246 Re: Gloves Re: cotehardies etc. Re: cotehardies etc. Re: Gloves Re: cotehardies etc. Re: Gloves and Gauntlets costume pattern request re: Corset Web Page Re: costume pattern request Re: cotehardies etc. Open House and Pattern Review ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 15:46:24 +0100 From: j.w.hubbard@sheffield.ac.uk (Bill Hubbard) Subject: Military Medieval Gloves >> Replying to David Brewer's query on "Medieval gloves: any info?": >> >Try Cunnington's History of Occupational Costume. >There is a glove section with manscript portrayls of common people >wearing them!! >Teresa In a military context? Bill ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 10:09:33 -0600 (CST) From: Teresa Shannon Subject: Re: Military Medieval Gloves > > >> Replying to David Brewer's query on "Medieval gloves: any info?": > >> > > >Try Cunnington's History of Occupational Costume. > >There is a glove section with manscript portrayls of common people > >wearing them!! > >Teresa > > In a military context? > Bill > Yes, I believe so, don't own the book, though. Also, try Francis Michael Kelley _A short history of military and civilian costume, primarily in England_ its from the 30s and while I would normally never recommend from that time period, it does contain some amount of actual photographs and period contextual references. I was looking for information on German gypons from 1390s, so it probably has something on gloves, too. Teresa ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 18:20:44 +0100 From: j.w.hubbard@sheffield.ac.uk (Bill Hubbard) Subject: Gloves and Gauntlets In reply to:Rhodry >Owning a pair of mitten-gauntlets, I can assert that you will want foam >padding and leather gloves. >(snip) > I have trouble believing that soldiers, knights, whatever >you want to call them did NOT wear something in them. However, I have >not done any research on the topic. Quite agree you need something inside gauntlets on the back and sides of the hands: maybe even full gloves or mittens. My only point is that I haven't seen leather gloves worn as part of military equipment on their own: but that is only my experience: other people might have. Teresa has mentioned a couple of books - does anyone have these to get the references from them? Regards, Bill ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 10:27:51 -0800 From: shepgibb@mcn.org Subject: Re: ISBN#, John Scott is right but to confuse matters... >Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 09:43:45 -0800 >To:"Gwyneth H. Crowley" >From:shepgibb@mcn.org >Subject:Re: ISBN#, John Scott is right but to confuse matters... > >This discussion on ISBN seems to be going on a bit and obviously it is not >clear to some people. By way of example: the latest book I published - >CIVIL WAR GENTLEMEN: 1860s Apparel Arts & Uniforms has the following >number 0-914046-22-5 >the 0 indicates I publish in English >914046 is my number as a publisher, no one else can use it >22 means that it is the 2nd book (or version of any books) I have published >5 is some sort of a computer generated check # > >When I started publishing I bought a series of ISBN#s from Bowker (who >control the US market) and each time I publish a book or a version of a >book I use the next number in line. > >One of my books in published in England. Its number looks nothing like >mine because they have their own code number, etc. > >On magazine there is an ISSN# (Internaional Standard Serial Number) this >is issued here by the Library of Congress. An example is the magazine I >publish: RAGS: Quarterly Reviews of Costume, Clothing & Ethnic Textile >Books, ISSN 1082-6181. > >If you find duplicates they are mistakes and someone is asleep at the switch. > Robb Shep > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 12:51:57 -0500 From: Kevin Richard-Morrow Subject: re: corset web page A good source for metal boning and wooden busks is: Tidy's Storehouse (800)-826-7771 I don't have the current address but the 800 number works and I am sure they will be glad to give out the snail mail address. Kevin Richard-Morrow 15th reg. Albany County Militia (18th century, flintlocks not M-16s) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Nov 95 08:51:00 EST From: "Hicks, Melissa" Subject: FW: Corset Web Page Drea, If you are going to put mail-order info on the Web page, could you please mark those who do International (in my case to Australia) mail order. Thanks. I am going frantic at the moment trying to get hold of ANY (metal or plastic but esp. metal) boning. Our usual Australian importer Terry Brown (SCA: Myfawnwy) is currently experiencing difficulties with costs of getting this stuff to Australia. Melissa. mah@amsa.gov.au ---------- From: owner-h-costume To: Heather Rose Jones Cc: h-costume Subject: Corset Web Page Date: Thursday, 9 November 1995 11:06 I'm working away on the elizabethan corset web page, the ultimate in specialization on the web. I was wondering if anyone here had addresses for 1.Mail order Silk 2.Mail order period fabrics (silk satin, real linen, etc) 3. wooden busks 4. spring steel boning I do have the addresses for Thai silks, WinterSilk, and Sterling silks. I also have the addresses for Amazon Drygoods and JAS Townsend. Are there any other good mailorder places out there (especially for the spring steel boning)? Please send them to my email address at aleed@indiana.edu. Or you can send them to this list, if you'd like to share them with everyone. Thanks, Drea Leed ******************************************* We've secretly replaced their dilithium crystals with new Folger's Crystals. Now let's watch them to to warp. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 12:55:28 -0800 From: Susan Fatemi Subject: Re: H-Costume Digest V3 #246 This won't help any medievalists, but gloves were found in Tutankhamon's tomb. real gloves, not mittens. I think they were embroidered. (can't remember where I saw this, may have been tv.) Susan Fatemi susanf@eerc.berkeley.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 19:10:11 -0500 From: Sanni1@aol.com Subject: Re: Gloves Gloves aren't that difficult to make -- I've done about 10 pair, mostly in 15th-16th c. style. The main thing is to get a good thumb pattern. There are several good books on gloves and gloving, showing period patterns for thumbs and cuffs. You want to use a non-ravelly fabric too. I found that chamois leather or thin deerskin/goatskin works well. When sewing, I use a buttonhole or overcast stitch in silk or linen. I sew them inside out and turn them, although I have seen ones where the seams were on the outside. Good luck with the project, Sanni ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 95 17:43:09 PST From: ches@tristero.io.com Subject: Re: cotehardies etc. Back when I first joined the SCA I made my first piece of garb, a cotehadie. It was four pieces with two gores in the skirt. I too wondered how the pictured forms acheived Breast support. So I cut all four pieces out of royal blue Satin on the bias. That is laying all the pattern peices as close to the bias as possible. Yes it looks like you take up a lot of fabric but I remember buying 6 yards of the 60 in. wide bridal washable satin that happended to be on sale for 2.99 a yard. I still have 2.5 yards of it. So I actually used only 3.5 yards. I used a Medieval Misc. pattern and it worked just fine. I got the support I wanted, so much so that I went without a bra, (bridal satin is heavy and thick). I made several more and got many comments from ladies who could tell that I was using no other support and they started to cut on the bias as well. I recently got a bikini pattern and found that the top is cut on the bias. There is something to be said for cutting on the bias or as close to it as possible. - ------------------------------------- Ciao Ches E-mail: Ches@io.com This message was sent by Chameleon - ------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 09:36:22 +1100 (EST) From: Katrina Hunt Subject: Re: cotehardies etc. Just a note about my friends cotehardie made in the Greenland style: One of them had a 14 metre hem line. It fitted snugly and was still quite outrageous in the amount of material it used. Cutting with gores need not be to conserve fabric (even though that is a side effect) but it will achieve a style that was in vogue in more than just Greenland. The Greenland colony did die out. They froze as the little iceage revved up. They froze because they were being stubbonly European and not adapting to the changing climate. Just something to think about. Katrina ******************************************************************************* * * * David and Katrina Hunt | thehunts@canberra.dialix.oz.au * * Stephen Aldred & Mathilde Adycote | 24 Edwards St Higgins ACT Australia * Baron & Baroness Politarchopolis | Phone (06) 254 3059 * * * ******************************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 02:29:18 GMT From: David Brewer Subject: Re: Gloves In message <951109191010_102561103@mail06.mail.aol.com> Sanni1@aol.com writes: > Gloves aren't that difficult to make -- I've done about 10 pair, mostly in > 15th-16th c. style. The main thing is to get a good thumb pattern. There > are several good books on gloves and gloving, showing period patterns for > thumbs and cuffs. Can you give further details of these books. > Good luck with the project, Thanks. - -- David Brewer ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 09:54:28 +1000 From: M.DEVOGEL@student.anu.edu.au (Miesje de Vogel) Subject: Re: cotehardies etc. >I fitted my cotehardie three times to get the fit I wanted. Mine is made >out of eight sections, princess seamed along the bust and on the side >back (I saw a painting in the book _Late Gothic Europe 1400-1600_ that >showed these) and flared with lots of gores from the hip down. > Huzzah! This si the way I do mine, and I get a really good look in this one. My justification for doing so is the portrait of one of the French kings mistress dressed up as the virgin. The one with a crown and one boob showing. It shows a princessline at the front, with lacing up the middle. It also shows the gown is lined in fur - which quite a few of the better portraits do - and that woiuld be a stiffner and a half to get you as mucvh staying power as a corset. For the back though, I only use two panels - This is because another famous painting (that I can't remember the name, artist, etc. for) has a picture of Mary Magdalene weeping in a church. It also has tie on sleeves (which I'm not so sure about, periodicity wise). The back opf the dress has extremely visible sleeves and a facing on the neck. Then I gore the hell out of my dresses because I like the sweepimng look. It also can be used to give a good train effect. Miesje. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 10:26:23 +1000 From: M.DEVOGEL@student.anu.edu.au (Miesje de Vogel) Subject: Re: Gloves and Gauntlets >In reply to:Rhodry > >>Owning a pair of mitten-gauntlets, I can assert that you will want foam >>padding and leather gloves. >>(snip) >> I have trouble believing that soldiers, knights, whatever >>you want to call them did NOT wear something in them. However, I have >>not done any research on the topic. > >Quite agree you need something inside gauntlets on the back and sides of >the hands: maybe even full gloves or mittens. My only point is that I >haven't seen leather gloves worn as part of military equipment on their >own: but that is only my experience: other people might have. >Teresa has mentioned a couple of books - does anyone have these to get the >references from them? >Regards, >Bill Um, Warning, this is not my area of expertise at all, but I am looking into something for SCA fencing that is a little different... I'm using a leather gauntlrt as a base, and then sewing over it a butchers glove. The butchers glove is finely made chainmail, and is extremely srturdy. It's giving me a nice look even if it is just sometyhing I made up... Miesje. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 00:37:13 -0600 From: David Dill Subject: costume pattern request Hi! I am looking for a pattern to make a 1969-looking suede coat with fringe, such as was worn by many hippies of the day. If you have any info on how I might find such a thing, I would surely appreciate it. If not, any other information, such as where I might find an example of one (perhaps in a particular movie or something) so that I could really look at it to judge what kind of pattern to get that could serve as a variation of it or a starting point to alter to my specific need, that would also be much appreciated. Thanks for anything you can help me with. I hope that you can. Mary Alex Tampary ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 08:10:56 -0500 From: loutre@pipeline.com (Denny Stone) Subject: re: Corset Web Page Just a public note to the people who responded to my 1770's pannier question. Everyone was quite helpful. For Drea and the Corset Web Page: I purchased my materials which included poly boning (cased and uncased) and metal boning from Greenberg and Hammer, 24 W. 57th St., NYC, 212-246-2835. I am almost certain that they have an extensive catalog and that one can order by mail. Certainly worth a look. Stone ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 10:06:43 -0500 From: deirdre@deeny.MV.COM (Deirdre) Subject: Re: costume pattern request A lot of the current patterns for polar fleece coats are cut along the same lines; you might want to just add fringe. Failing that, AHENCK@american.edu (Anita F. Henck), per a post on alt.sewing, just inherited a couple hundred patterns dating from the period. You might want to email her and see if she has one. _Deirdre At 12:37 AM 11/9/95, David Dill wrote: > Hi! I am looking for a pattern to make a 1969-looking > suede coat with fringe, such as was worn by many > hippies of the day. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Nov 95 09:35:08 PST From: julie_adams@corp.Cubic.COM Subject: Re: cotehardies etc. On bias cuts and using wide fabric: Based on how some original garments are pieced together, I would hypothesize that they sewed the widths of cloth together and then cut them out for many of these bias-cut or very wide gored garments. I am basing this suggestion on the pattern layouts in Janet Arnold's Patterns of Fashion, and some information that cloth was not normally woven in very wide widths. Does anyone have any primary sources documenting this? ------------------------------ Date: 10 Nov 95 10:24:13 -0800 From: "SNORTON.US.ORACLE.COM" Subject: Open House and Pattern Review Dreamers of Decadence The Greater Bay Area Costumer's Guild Presents An Open House Saturday, November 11, 1995 1-5 PM Hillview Hall Los Altos Community Center Featuring The Great Pattern Review Free Catalogue Containing Reviews, Comments,and Criticisms of 102 Historic Patterns Over 50 Costumes on Display Special Display of Costumes for the Upcoming Fairy Tale Ball Photos of Past Guild Events and Workshops Tickets to Upcoming Events and Workshops on Sale Raffle Grand Prize a $100 Gift Certificate to Britex Other Prizes: Membership to CC14 Patterns from The Mantua Maker Subscriptions to Ladies Gallery Vintage Hats Tickets to The Art Deco Soceity Ball A Class at Orb Weaver $20 Gift Certificate New York Fabrics Tickets to PEERS Lord Capulet's Ball Tickets to the Rosicrucian Museum Tickets to the Tech Museum Directions From Hwy 101, take the San Antonion Rd East exit Cross El Camino Real Stay on San Antonion Rd into Los Altos Left on Hillview The Community Center is on the left Free admission Plenty of Free Parking ------------------------------ End of H-Costume Digest V3 #247 ******************************* A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, send the command lines: unsubscribe h-costume-digest subscribe h-costume end in the body of a message to majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com. Thanks and enjoy the list!