From: owner-h-costume-digest (H-Costume Digest) To: h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Subject: H-Costume Digest V3 #258 Reply-To: h-costume Sender: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Errors-To: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk H-Costume Digest Friday, November 24 1995 Volume 3, Number 258 Compilation copyright (C) 1995 Diane Barlow Close and Gretchen Miller Use in whole prohibited. Individual articles are the property of the author. Seek permission from that author before reprinting or quoting elsewhere. Important Addresses: Send submissions to: h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com (or reply to this message). Adds/drops/archives: majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com Real, live person: h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Topics: 19th Century Masked Ball Re: H-Costume Digest V3 #257 advice on embroidery Royal School of Needlework 16th century snoods Re: socks and footcloths Re: Flax info. HELP!!!!! RE: 16th century snoods Re: 16th century snoods The cheapest fabric available Re: Flax info. HELP!!!!! Amish Pants Re: Flax info. HELP!!!!! Re: need info on corsets Speaking of Flax... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 22:39:12 -0800 (PST) From: Allan Terry Subject: 19th Century Masked Ball Crystal, The best book I know of on fancy dress is _Van Dyck in Check Trousers_, by Sara Stevenson and Helen Bennett, published by the Scottish National Portrait Gallery in 1978. It contains many pictures of actual costumes as well as chapters on how fancy dress was made and worn. The period covered is the 18th and 19th centuries. There is also some material on fancy dress in _Dance: A Very Social History_, published by the Metropolitan Museum of Art in 1986. Affluent Victorians lavished considerable effort and money on their costumes, which were often professionally made. Women wanted to look as attractive as at any other ball, which meant they tended to choose costumes with lines similar to the currently fashionable silhouette. Historical characters were always popular. Mary Queen of Scots, Elizabeth I, and Marie Antoinette were perennial favorites. Note that the wide skirts and V-shaped underskirt lines that were part of these costumes were well in tune with the mainstream skirt fashions of much of the Victorian period. Since even mainstream ballgowns often had historical touches, one thing you might want to do is make an 1860s-style gown with "historical" trimmings that could be easily removed, leaving you with a gown usable for many other Victorian balls. The opportunity to break away from conventional standards of good taste was often embraced. This included wearing huge amounts of jewelry (preferably real), wearing skirts short enough to expose the ankle or even some of the calf, and dressing in male costume. _From the Ballroom to Hell: Grace and Folly in Nineteenth-Century Dance_, by Elizabeth Aldrich and published by Northwestern University Press in 1991, includes substantial information on ballroom etiquette. Such as when to arrive, how to ask a woman to dance, how to refuse a dance, how to lead your partner back to her seat, introductions, conversation and behavior during the dance, and when to leave. It also contains information on organizing a ball, and on mainstream ballroom fashions. _Civil War Era Etiquette_, a reprint of the 1866 _Martine's Handbook of Etiquette_, has a chapter on evening parties, balls and otherwise. The reprint was published in 1988 by R. L. Shep. Neither source has information specifically on etiquette for masked or fancy-dress balls (they were not all masked); however, it is probably similar if not identical. However--in my experience attempts to introduce Victorian etiquette into modern balls are unsuccessful. The etiquette demands that women wait to be asked to dance. Although Victorian women were not allowed to solicit partners, they received considerable help from their mothers or chaperones, older female friends and relatives, and the hostess. These days ball organizers simply tell women to wait without giving them any help. Women who don't come with partners are likely to sit out a lot, especially if they don't know many people or there is a gender imbalance. Hope this helps. Fran Grimble ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Nov 1995 08:09:28 -0500 From: Gary Stephens Subject: Re: H-Costume Digest V3 #257 Dear Gillian: You posted: > Re: The real gold thread. > My mother used to take classes at the Royal School of Needlework - > the place they do the banners and coronation gowns and other such > sumptuous things. She bought most of her gold thread and stuff from > the School, and the rest from a little shop just near Salisbury > Cathedral. Now, this WAS 20 years ago, but knowing England, the > School is definitely still going and the shop probably is, and still > being run by the same little old lady or her daughter! > Undoubtedly one of our British correspondents could give us the > address and telephone number of the School? (Please?) Thank you very much for this! I shall post my husband's aunt in England and see if she can find anything on this for me. Actually, this is rather fortuitous, as I've been looking for an excuse to contact the Royal School of Needlework. Lorina Stephens garys@flexnet.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Nov 1995 08:09:18 -0500 From: Gary Stephens Subject: advice on embroidery Dear Sheridan, You were asking: >I would welcome any advice on embroidering the hem, sleeves and bodice of >a c. 1812 ladys' evening gown. Just to complicate things, my fabric is a >transparent silk. I have worked on a very thin sueded silk without difficulty, using silk, metallic and even cotton threads. However, there are a few 'tool' considerations you may want to think about. Most people today embroider using what is known as a tambour hoop: either a wooden, metal or plastic set of two hoops that are thumbscrewed, hinge snapped, or spring snapped, tightly around each other, sandwiching the cloth. Tambours are fine for medium weight materials which do not have a noticeable nap. However, they can damage lighter weight and nappy materials. I would really recommend using a frame, the sort most people use today for needlepoint and other counted work. That way the fabric can be 'sewn' to the frame, drawn tightly, without damage. Of course, this presupposes you will apply the embroidered bits to the gown. I would really recommend you do that, especially considering you're using a transparent silk. This will then 'back' or line your embroidery, thereby protecting it, as well as add a bit of body to the fabric. I realize you probably don't want too much body, and this wee bit of extra won't harm, I shouldn't think, any draping quality you wish to achieve. I'd also recommend you use a fine, untwisted silk floss, as you will be able to achieve a much finer result. There's a fabulous web site available, if only I could remember what it's called. However, if you do a subject search under needlecrafts, or embroidery, I'm sure you'll run across one or the other of the ones I know. There are supply shops on line that carry simply paradisical amounts of flosses of every weight and colour and type you could possibly imagine. Even linen. I have never been able to find linen before. Oddly enough, none of the ones I've browsed carry real metal. I digress .... If you wish to use a twisted thread, I can recommend an excellent manufacturer that deals direct: Al Scale Enterprises, 20297 Stanton Avenue, Maple Ridge, B.C., Canada M2X 9A5. Eve carries a simply stunning, if limited, array of colours, in two weights. I use her fine floss, the 'A' type, which sell for $1.20/25 meter skein. There is also a slightly heavier weight, a 4 ply. I'm not sure of the price on that. I understand she also sells by the pound, in case any avid weavers or knitters out there are interested. As to pattern, the chinoiserie effect was still very much in vogue for more elaborate work, and I would consider an evening gown quite elaborate. So, you might consider something in wonderful vines and leaves with fruits and flowers and birds. All of that would be embroidered in a modicum of stitches: back, stem, split, outline, chain. If that's not to your taste and you wish to go a little more reserved, you can always resort to the ubiquitous cross-stitch, in any of a plethora of designs common to the era, although, personally, I think if you do that you will loose on the sumptuous quality of transparent silk. If you're trying for a light and airy feeling, simply keep your embroidery rather monochromatic or in muted tones. If you're trying for a wow effect, well, go for broke and use a rich array of jewel tones. As to needles, I would really recommend you use a gold-plated quilting needle, a 26, rather than the usually embroidery sharps. The blunts will allow you to pass between the warp and weft of the silk, thereby minimizing damage to the fine fibres. It takes a little practice to get used to working with a blunt, but I think you will be pleased with the result, and the added longevity of the piece. When you go to apply the embroidered bits, simply apply with fine stitches, perferably in silk. I have found pinning things down before stitching an infinitely wise idea. If you don't like the edge the applique leaves, you can always couch on some fine cording, ribbon or sew on beading, which would lend itself very well to this sort of period application. Pearls have been in vogue for centuries. They did this alot. Trust me. :) For hundreds and hundreds of years. Truly, depending on what your personal schedule is like, this gown might not take an overly long time to embroider. I made a 13th century gown of red with a rather largish train. The entire train, hem and shoulders are embroidered in the ivy vine pattern so much in use then. True, I was ill when I embroidered it (no comments on my state of mind, please :)) and so it only took me about four months to do. Oh, just for the sake of useless trivia, there is over a kilometer of embroidery thread in the gown. At the moment I'm working on another rather large project, two heraldic cloaks, based in design on the Bolgona Cope, although certainly not with the all-over embroidery of the Cope, only around the hem. I'm just about finished one, and have been working on it, to be truthful, for about five to six months. I apologize my reply has been so verbose. I'm sure, however, you understand what it's like when you find someone who is interested in something your interested. :) Lorina Stephens garys@flextnet.com ------------------------------ Date: 23 Nov 95 15:13:00 GMT From: Mrs C S Yeldham Subject: Royal School of Needlework According to the telephone directory, the address is: The Royal School of Needlework 12a Hampton Court Palace East Molesey KT8 9AU tel 0181 943 1432 They used to have a shop in London near Covent Garden but that closed a few years ago. Caroline ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Nov 1995 10:11:41 -0800 (PST) From: Gwen Carnegi Subject: 16th century snoods About two years ago, snoods in the 16th century was brought up as a topic. The debate between crochet and knotting (fillet de something?) was quite comprehensive. Someone actually had a pattern for the knotting technique if I remember correctly. The information was wonderful and the thread was quite long. I have managed to delete this file and I cannot find it in the archives. I have a feeling that this discussion happened before the archives were created. Did anyone out there save a copy of this discussion? And could someone mail me a copy? We might even want to repost it if there is enough interest. Thanks Gwyn Carnegie gcarnegi@netcom.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Nov 1995 14:04:00 -0500 (EST) From: BARBARASHU@delphi.com Subject: Re: socks and footcloths Has anyone else read "Man in the Ice" by Konrad Spindler, in bookstores now? It is an unbelievably fascinating account of the discovery in 1991 of an almost perfectly preserved body of a Neolithic hunter who died about 5,300 years ago. The body was found in a glacier in the Alps on the Austrian/Italian border. Found with the body was much of his clothing, weapons, and other accoutrements. The clothing found consists of a fur cap, a fragmentary fur cape, fur leggings, leather loincloth, leather shoes, grass stuffed into the shoes, i.e. socks, and a grass cloak. There are many color photos. The author is an Austrian archaeologist. I was barely able to put this book down, I found it so interesting, although the author's speculations at the end are rather bizarre and far-fetched. Publisher is Harmony Books, 1994, ISBN 0-517-79969-3. Barbara ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Nov 1995 11:31:16 -0800 From: alisoun@adams.berk.net Subject: Re: Flax info. HELP!!!!! Happy Thanksgiving! Flax, eh? It's amazing how much I use it--the linen blouses and slacks that I wear 3 seasons of the year. The linen shifts, bodices and petticoats I wear in my Elizabethan persona (Society for Creative Anachronism, recreating the best from the middle ages and renaissance). The artist's canvas that I paint on. The thread that I use to weave, to sew historical reproduction clothing (linen thread to sew linen fabric). And then I make bobbin lace, using linen thread for all but the finest lace. The linen thread that was used for the finest lace came from special flax grown in Flanders. Two world wars destroyed the crops, and made it extinct. Get a copy of Linen Hand Spinning and Weaving by Patricia Baines (London: B.T. Batsford, 1989), if you can. It discusses growing flax, retting (which is the process of rotting away the non-fibrous plant material, leaving the spinnable flax, spinning and weaving. According to Baines, wild flax was used in the third millenium BCE in Neolithic Swis Lake dwellings, to make linen cloth. There are also Egyptian cave paintings from 1900 BCE showing the spinning of flax. You may quote from this message if desired. Pat LaPointe flax fanatic in Western Massachusetts ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Nov 95 14:17:00 CST From: "Lassman, Linda" Subject: RE: 16th century snoods I missed this exchange as well, and would be very interested in seeing it re-posted or in receiving a copy of it. - Linda Lassman Winnipeg, Manitoba ---------- From: Gwen Carnegi To: Historial Costume Subject: 16th century snoods Date: 23 November 1995 10:11 About two years ago, snoods in the 16th century was brought up as a topic. The debate between crochet and knotting (fillet de something?) was quite comprehensive. Someone actually had a pattern for the knotting technique if I remember correctly. The information was wonderful and the thread was quite long. I have managed to delete this file and I cannot find it in the archives. I have a feeling that this discussion happened before the archives were created. Did anyone out there save a copy of this discussion? And could someone mail me a copy? We might even want to repost it if there is enough interest. Thanks Gwyn Carnegie gcarnegi@netcom.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Nov 1995 09:50:22 +1100 (EST) From: Katrina Hunt Subject: Re: 16th century snoods I for one would be VERY interested in seeing the information. Katrina Hunt ******************************************************************************* * * * David and Katrina Hunt | thehunts@canberra.dialix.oz.au * * Stephen Aldred & Mathilde Adycote | 24 Edwards St Higgins ACT Australia * Baron & Baroness Politarchopolis | Phone (06) 254 3059 * * * ******************************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Nov 1995 22:36:57 -0500 From: NeaDods@aol.com Subject: The cheapest fabric available Carole Newson Smith wrote about muslin: >It's just about the cheapest stuff in the fabric stores around here. Actually, there is a cheaper, hardier fabric, but it's not at the fabric stores. Go to Goodwill or Value Village or whatever they call the thrift stores in your area, and buy some sheets. Wide, durable, and (at least around DC) about $3 a sheet. The lining in a LOT of my costumes reads "Property of such-n-such Retirement Home"! If you're lucky, there might also be silk-look drapes or some homespun-looking blanket. Good for drag-in-the-mud Renfaire costumes. A bunch of Marklanders here once bought a leather couch at Goodwill, took it home, and skinned it for tunics. Nea Dodson neadods@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Nov 1995 23:42:16 -0500 From: M311@aol.com Subject: Re: Flax info. HELP!!!!! `The book- "Great People of The Bible and How They Lived" talks about flax. It is put out by The Readers Digest Association, Inc. Library of Congress Catalog Card NO. 73-86027 Copyright 1974 Kelly Albrecht ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Nov 1995 23:42:15 -0500 From: M311@aol.com Subject: Amish Pants I am looking for a pattern for mens Amish Pants. Thanks, Kelly Albrecht m311@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Nov 1995 23:42:16 -0500 From: M311@aol.com Subject: Re: Flax info. HELP!!!!! `The book- "Great People of The Bible and How They Lived" talks about flax. It is put out by The Readers Digest Association, Inc. Library of Congress Catalog Card NO. 73-86027 Copyright 1974 Kelly Albrecht ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Nov 1995 17:39:31 -0500 From: NeaDods@aol.com Subject: Re: need info on corsets Kerri Potratz asked about information on corsets - I know I'm late in responding to this, but I still wanted to add my two cents. An issue of the now regrettably defunct Living History Magazine had a short article on "trouble signs" a modern woman should be aware of when she laced herself for reenactments. Presumably all of the same things happened to women of the time period, so if you can track that article down it will be very helpful. If you can't track the article down, look for information in period medical books like this: o Heat exhaustion, caused by inability to properly sweat under all those layers of clothing, exacerbated by the inability to breathe. The article warned that if a woman is overheating and wearing a corset, she might faint if cold water is dashed on her. o hyperventilation - caused by trying too hard to breathe when the ribs can't properly expand. o broken ribs from overlacing. o back problems from improperly fitted corset. o choking (removing the corset of a choking woman will probably force whatever it is further down her throat as her lungs try to expand), and finally, o "corset rush" - that dizziness caused by taking the corset off, when all the blood rushes back into the compressed areas, away from the brain. There were anti-corset writings in the Victorian era; find a good history library or a study of Amelia Bloomer or turn-of-the-century feminism to see if there are any quotes from them. Good luck! Nea Dodson neadods@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Nov 1995 21:18:50 -0500 From: Tracy023@aol.com Subject: Speaking of Flax... Since we're on the subject of flax, I have one [flax bush, that is] growing in my yard. In idle moments I've considered experimenting with producing my very own, home grown [literally] garment--but haven't a clue what to do first. A year or more ago I checked our local library but details on turning flax into cloth are a little too esoteric for the cash strapped general circulation list. The next time I visit the UC Irvine library I will check their lists. Does anyone have any reading suggestions? Has anyone actually done this? What am I letting myself in for? Thanks. Tracy Tracy023@aol.com ------------------------------ End of H-Costume Digest V3 #258 ******************************* A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, send the command lines: unsubscribe h-costume-digest subscribe h-costume end in the body of a message to majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com. Thanks and enjoy the list!