From: owner-h-costume-digest (H-Costume Digest) To: h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Subject: H-Costume Digest V3 #264 Reply-To: h-costume Sender: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Errors-To: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk H-Costume Digest Friday, December 1 1995 Volume 3, Number 264 Compilation copyright (C) 1995 Diane Barlow Close and Gretchen Miller Use in whole prohibited. Individual articles are the property of the author. Seek permission from that author before reprinting or quoting elsewhere. Important Addresses: Send submissions to: h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com (or reply to this message). Adds/drops/archives: majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com Real, live person: h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Topics: Re: Cavalier style boots Re: H-Costume Digest V3 #262 Re: H-Costume Digest V3 #261 book search Re: Fans? Re: late 19th cent. corsets Elizabethan Portrait split bonnet limbourg cloth split/slat bonnet red flannel petticoats, 1860's re hook and eye tape Re: Elizabethan Portrait RE: split/slat bonnet Reviving dulled silk Authentic Sunglasses (Green Specs) Re: Reviving dulled silk Re: Blacksmiths' shirts Re: red flannel petticoats, 1860's More Museum and Book info ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 14:33:27 -0500 (EST) From: charles godfrey Subject: Re: Cavalier style boots On Wed, 29 Nov 1995, Lisa A. Tyson wrote: > Am seeking either a pattern or order information on where to > obtain those lovely tall (black) Cavalier style boots. I have been on this same quest for sometime. I can't afford Amazon Dry Goods boots. I personally need some boots that will expand in the calf. My riding boots that I modified no longer fit in the calf. The more I fence, and the more the years pass, my calves are getting more muscular. I can't afford to replace my boots every 6 months :> Anyone with a suggestion let me know. Thanks. Derek ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 13:23:28 -0800 From: Susan Fatemi Subject: Re: H-Costume Digest V3 #262 More 2c. this time on velvet. As velvet is a pile-woven textile, like rugs, I would guess that it may have originated in the "east", possibly Persia or Mamluk Egypt. Turkey had very elaborate and beautiful velvets from some- what later than the 13th-14th c. dates given for Spain and Italy. I don't "know" for a fact, but it makes sense, esp. as many other eastern or Islamic materials, such as paper, first made their way into Europe thru' Spain or Sicily. (first paper mill in Europe was in Spain, 12th c., brought by the "moors") Sorry about any weirdness, I get the digest, and I've gotten terribly behind. susan fatemi susanf@eerc.berkeley.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 13:14:58 -0800 From: Susan Fatemi Subject: Re: H-Costume Digest V3 #261 Well I just have to put in my 2c. regarding socks. Among the items of clothing found in the Pazyryk burials, ca. 450 B.C. , were a pair of "slipper socks" on the woman. As far as I can recall, they were roughly knee high, and the bottoms were decoratively embroidered (they sat on the floor, the soles of their feet showed, so they embellished a bit!) They were sewn (silk? wool? can't remembr) not knitted. this far pre- dates the Coptic period in Egypt. I think the Chinese were wearing knitted silk socks long before anyone in the West. Loved the stuff about Central Asian "sunglasses". susan fatemi susanf@eerc.berkeley.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Nov 95 16:24 CST From: ROBERT@UIAMVS.WEEG.UIOWA.EDU Subject: book search Here is the citation for the book you want: In the Russian style / edited by Jacqueline Onassis, with the cooperation of the Metropolitan Museum of Art ; introd. by Audrey Kennett ; designed by Bryan Holme. New York : Viking Press, 1976. 0670396966. If you cannot find it in a book store, quite a few libraries have it so you should be able to borrow through Interlibrary Loan without difficulty. Hope this helps. > i am looking for a book entitle "In the Russian Style" I got a chance > to look through it a couple of years ago but have not seen it since. ****************************** Wendy Robertson Serials Cataloging University of Iowa (319) 335-5894 wendy-robertson@uiowa.edu ****************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 17:17:55 -0600 From: "PHYLLIS SPURR" Subject: Re: Fans? I recently have come across an interesting book... Alexander, Helene. Fans: The Costume Accessories Series. London: B.T. Batsford Ltd, 1984 ISBN 0 7134 4276 X This book has a concise history with illustrations. It also has primary references for the actual making of fans. The introduction to the book deals with pre-seventeenth century fans. The actual chapters deal with the seventeenth century and forward. The back of the book has an appendix, notes, glossary, museums to visit, bibliography, and an index. The only significant improvement I would have made to the book is color illustrations, of which there are none. Hope this helps anyone interested. Phyllis Spurr/Eowyn ferch Rhys ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 17:19:48 -0800 (PST) From: Kimberly Smay Subject: Re: late 19th cent. corsets I wtote a paper in college on the connections between women's underpinnings and their status in society. My research was sketchy, but my thesis was that as women gained in the real world, the clothing became more restrictive. The book Backlash sets forth a similiar thesis regarding womens rights now. Certainly both men and women are sometimes frightened by progress and change and invent creative ways to take two steps back. Kimberly Smay ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 23:06:29 -0800 From: bd927@scn.org (Susan Courney) Subject: Elizabethan Portrait Greetings: I'm looking for a color reproduction and was hoping someone here could help. It's a portrait of Ar(a)bella Stuart when she was a young girl, the one where she's holding a doll in one hand.I thinking of making the doll, and would like to find a color copy, so as the have a better idea of what it looks like. The copy I have (from Antonia Frasier's Toy book0 Isn't very clear. If anyone knows where I could find a color copy of this portrait, or of any other tuder-Elizabethan-Jacobean Doll I'd be very greatfull. Thanks Susan Courney ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 8:06:01 -0600 (CST) From: HIST_PS@centum.utulsa.edu Subject: split bonnet I have come across a reference to a split bonnet that would have been worn in the mid nineteenth century in Indian Territory (Oklahoma). I cannot find any description of it. Please help me. hist_ps@utulsa.edu Thank you. Paula ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 8:09:28 -0600 (CST) From: HIST_PS@centum.utulsa.edu Subject: limbourg cloth I am perpetually searching for a definition of limbourg cloth (spelling varies).It was an American Indian trade cloth in the eighteenth century produced by boththe French and the English. Thank you, Paula hist_ps@utulsa.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 9:14:24 -0600 (CST) From: VICKI@lib.uttyl.edu Subject: split/slat bonnet Could your mid-nineteenth century Indian Territory bonnet have been a slat bonnet, which uses split pieces of wood to make up the slats? It's just an idea. I have made one for myself which has about ten slats, each about an inch and a quarter wide and about eight inches long (it's not here to look at), which makes it rather deep but very practical. The skirt part is also quite long, falling over my shoulders. I have used osnaburg for the fabric, which is cheap and light colored to reflect the sun, and rather thin (1/8"?) wood taken from an old crate. This bonnet keeps the sun off of my face and neck, turns away a light shower and at least keeps my face dry during rain, and if I am gardening, it keeps the dirt from a raised hoe from falling down my back. I have seen similar slat bonnets (with, perhaps, a little fancier construction and "pouf" in the back) in Civil War illustrations, and there is an original in Calico Chronicles which shows the very, very long skirt or curtain. Vicki Betts ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 11:02:25 -0600 (CST) From: VICKI@lib.uttyl.edu Subject: red flannel petticoats, 1860's During the 1860's women sometimes wore red flannel petticoats, I think with some black horizontal stripes toward the bottom. Has anyone seen any originals?Has anyone seen any illustrations? Are the black stripes printed on or pieced together? Are they of uniform width, or are they graduated with widest nearest the hem? How high above the hem do the stripes stop, if at all? What is the hem treatment--rolled, faced, edged? Were these petticoats to be worn under the hoop (my guess, for warmth) or over the hoop? I have recently acquired some red wool (had to go north for it) and I really don't want to mess it up when a little asking would save the project. Vicki Betts vicki@lib.uttyl.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 10:17:31 -0700 (MST) From: Uncle Peach & Costume Witch Subject: re hook and eye tape Derek Here is the address again: Richard The Thread 8320 Melrose Ave. West Hollywood, Ca 90069 Hope this helps Roxanne Coslett Roxanne's Creations Portales,NM ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 13:52:34 -0500 From: reaves@tuvok.marian.edu Subject: Re: Elizabethan Portrait Susan Courney asked: If anyone knows where I could >find a color copy of this portrait, or of any other >tuder-Elizabethan-Jacobean Doll I'd be very greatfull. Check Arnold's QUEEN ELIZABETH'S WARDROBE UNLOCK'D for fore and aft pictures of a fashion doll with bobbin lace.--Anne Reaves ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Dec 95 13:24:00 CST From: "Lassman, Linda" Subject: RE: split/slat bonnet >Could your mid-nineteenth century Indian Territory bonnet have been a slat >bonnet, which uses split pieces of wood to make up the slats? It's just an >idea. I have made one for myself which has about ten slats, each about >an inch and a quarter wide and about eight inches long (it's not here to look >at), which makes it rather deep but very practical. The skirt part is also >quite long, falling over my shoulders. I have used osnaburg for the fabric, >which is cheap and light colored to reflect the sun, and rather thin (1/8"?) >wood taken from an old crate. This bonnet keeps the sun off of my face and >neck, turns away a light shower and at least keeps my face dry during rain, >and if I am gardening, it keeps the dirt from a raised hoe from falling >down my back. I have seen similar slat bonnets (with, perhaps, a little >fancier construction and "pouf" in the back) in Civil War illustrations, >and there is an original in Calico Chronicles which shows the very, very >long skirt or curtain. > >Vicki Betts My mother inherited a large (24"?) china doll from her grandmother, which dates it to about 1870. It had a bonnet as Vicki has described, with the slats about the width of popsicle sticks and about 3" long. The skirt is also shoulder length on the doll and the back part of the bonnet fairly poofy but not disproportionately so. It's made of a thin blue and white print cotton. - Linda Lassman (originally from Kansas) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 14:05:09 -0800 From: cynthia@caere.com Subject: Reviving dulled silk I was down at the Dye Works in SJ, this afternoon, and the owner told me about a process some cleaners have. Apparently, there is a oil finish using mineral oil that returns some of the life and shine to dulled silk. Has anyone tried this? Would you be so kind as to report on the results? What are the negative effects? --cin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 14:16:49 -0800 From: cynthia@caere.com Subject: Authentic Sunglasses (Green Specs) >I am looking for info on authentic sunglasses, or green specs. The earliest >reference I have seen to them dates about 1861 or 1862, though obviously >sunglasses as we know know them today did not become really popular until >much later. Ysabeau, I remarked on a pair at Mount Vernon, just south of Washington DC. They're in a display case in the "museum" at the site. They were perfectly round, bottle green with tortoise-shell looking rims. They hinged over the nose, so that they could be adjusted to pinch the nose or fold closed so that one lens covered the other. Seemed rather uncomfortable, but they were highly amusing. --cin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 14:36:09 -0800 From: erin1@uclink4.berkeley.edu (Erin Harvey Moody) Subject: Re: Reviving dulled silk I am not sure about the process dry cleaners might use on clothing, but I read an article about cleaning clothes in a Martha Stewart magazine that recommended using vinegar in the last rinse of silk washables to restore lustre. Erin > I was down at the Dye Works in SJ, this afternoon, and the > owner told me about a process some cleaners have. Apparently, > there is a oil finish using mineral oil that returns some of > the life and shine to dulled silk. > > Has anyone tried this? Would you be so kind as to report on > the results? What are the negative effects? > > --cin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 14:37:06 -0800 From: gwjchris@ix.netcom.com (Bill and Glenna Christen ) Subject: Re: Blacksmiths' shirts You wrote: > >Does anyone have suggestions to offer regarding shirts for working >blacksmiths, late 19th-century, American West? If not, I will just >use one of the standard workmen's shirt patterns from one of the >standard companies--for instance, the Folkwear Missouri River Boatmen's shirt, a pattern I know I can lay my hands on locally. >Any pointers regarding other aspects of blacksmiths' clothing would be >appreciated. The Missouri River Boatman's Shirt is quite typical for a man's shirt in the earlier part of the century. Have you seen the Victorian men's shirt pattern also by Folkwear? I have it on good authority that it is about the best out there for mid to late century men's shirts. Pick the plainest version. A couple blacksmiths I know wear leather aprons which come up fairly high on the chest and widen out to wrap a bit around their sides by the waist and come down to their knees. They're tied around the back of the neck and at the waist or hips. This is a very practical garment that has been worn by smiths since at least colonial times if their research and paintings are any example. Wool jean cloth trousers would probably still be worn by working class men. (jean cloth, not modern blue jeans) Glenna Jo Christen LHS, LSFS & MSAS gwjchris@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 15:07:20 -0800 From: gwjchris@ix.netcom.com (Bill and Glenna Christen ) Subject: Re: red flannel petticoats, 1860's You wrote: > >During the 1860's women sometimes wore red flannel petticoats, I think with some black horizontal stripes toward the bottom. Has anyone seen any originals? Has anyone seen any illustrations? Are the black stripes printed on or pieced together? Are they of uniform width, or are they graduated with widest nearest the hem? How high above the hem do the stripes stop, if at all? What is the hem treatment--rolled, faced, edged? Were these petticoats to be worn under the hoop (my guess, for warmth) or over the hoop? I do know that flannel petticoats were worn under the hoops for warmth. As much as I hate to give in, there is too much evidence for many women to wear light petticoats under their hoops even in summer (for modesty? with or without drawers???) While I haven't examined an original I would offer the guess that the black stripes were applied ribbon trim much as in skirts and at least one mourning petticoat. That petticoat had a black flounce about 3" deep at the bottom with a rolled hem.) It also had 3 stripes all about 1/2" wide about 1-1/2" apart. (I don't have it here to be really exact, sorry.) I also don't know about how the hems were done on flannel petticoat. I'd love to hear the info others have to offer on this topic. Please post the answers to the list. Glenna Jo Christen LHS, LSFS & MSAS gwjchris@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Dec 95 14:07:50 EST From: cthulhu.engr.sgi.com!sgi.engr.sgi.com!smtpgwy.dlx.com!dlxibm!Liz_Jones Subject: More Museum and Book info More book & museum information as requested by various list members: The wonderful and expensive book of manuscripts from the Conde museum in Chantilly is "La Biblioteque du Prince: Chateau de Chantilly, Le Manuscrits, published 1995. ISBN # 9782908597103. The tapestry book in French from the Cluny is "La Tapisserie medievale au Musee de Cluny", Fabien Joubert, 1994, Reunion des Musees Nationaux, 49 Rue Etienne MArcel, 75001 Paris, ISBN# 2-7118-3145-0." I was also asked whether most of the books were available at one perticular place. I do believe that I bought many of them at the National Gallery bookshop, but noticed a fair amount of repetition involving all the Tudor books. I will check on addresses for those places, and also phone numbers if they are listed. Information (somewhat old) on photography availability from French museums: I have a few pamphlets from five years ago, and I will paraphrase the information within: Photo dept. of La Reunion des Musees Nationaux is located at 89 Avenue Victor Hugo, 75116 Paris. Tel # (1)4500-7557 (you need to add Intl access + country code and usually take off the (1), e.g., 001-33-4500-7557, but this may have changed in the last few years). They had 30,000 large size colour slides and 400,00 B&W negatives. They concern artworks kept in French National museums ("national" being the key, sometimes they are not). Covers all eras. You can get loans (color slides 6x7 cm, to 13x18 cm) with letter of intent. You can buy B&W prints 13x18 cm to 50x60 cm, color prints (same sizes) from existing transparencies, color slides 24x36 from existing transparencies. You can also order custome photos of art not in their stock. A catalog of slides is available on request by mail. Sample fees are five years old!. B&W print 13x18 or 18x24 cm = 38FF. Detail or special cropping is an additional 58FF. Color print 13x18 cm = 210 FF (expensive: better to do it here if possible, "reproduction prohibited"). Color slide = 50FF, detail = 80FF. I do not know the fee for a custom photo order. List of Included Museums Paris: Musee... des Arts Africains et Oceaniens National des Arts et Traditions Populaires National Eugene Delacroix d'Ennery Guimet Hebert du Louvre d'Orsay des Monument Francais Gustave Moreau de l'Orangerie Picasso des Thermes et de l'Hotel de Cluny Paris Area Musee... National du Chateau de Compiegne national de la Renaissance, Ecouen National du Chateau de Fontainbleu et Musee Napoleon National des Granges de Port Royal National du Chateau de Malmaison du Chateau de Bois-Preau des Antiquites NAtionales, ST. Germain-en-Laye National de Ceramique de Sevres NAtional du Chateau de Versailles et des Trianons Other Areas Musee... National de la Maison Bonaparte, Ajaccio National de la Cooperation Franco Americaine, Blerancourt National du Chateau de Pau Adrien Dubouche, Limoges des Deux Victoires, Mouilleron-en-Pareds National du Message Biblique Marc Chagall, Nice In addition, I have the same type of info from the Musee de l'Armee, Hotel des Invalides, F75007 PAris, tel # (1)4555-3011. Sorry for the long post, but I thought that all the info might be useful for other purposes: you never know how interests change! liz jones: ljones@datalogix.com (don't "reply", address new each time!) ------------------------------ End of H-Costume Digest V3 #264 ******************************* A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, send the command lines: unsubscribe h-costume-digest subscribe h-costume end in the body of a message to majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com. Thanks and enjoy the list!