From: owner-h-costume-digest (H-Costume Digest) To: h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Subject: H-Costume Digest V3 #267 Reply-To: h-costume Sender: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Errors-To: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk H-Costume Digest Wednesday, December 6 1995 Volume 3, Number 267 Compilation copyright (C) 1995 Diane Barlow Close and Gretchen Miller Use in whole prohibited. Individual articles are the property of the author. Seek permission from that author before reprinting or quoting elsewhere. Important Addresses: Send submissions to: h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com (or reply to this message). Adds/drops/archives: majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com Real, live person: h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Topics: Kilts & scones? Re: Leaded fabrics Re: Leaded fabrics Watered/moire silk? leaded fabrics Erte and movie costumes reference Fabrics treated with lead Costume Open House Review Re: Erte and movie costumes reference Re: Fabrics treated with lead Re: leaded fabrics Re: Elizabethan Portrait Re: H-Costume Digest V3 #265 Sporrans (was Kilts & scones?) Re: 18th Century Gown ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 05 Dec 95 16:46:29 EST From: Bonita Lohman <76613.477@compuserve.com> Subject: Kilts & scones? Could anyone tell me what scones ?sp? are made of. I believe scones are the pouch that hangs in front of a kilt. Also, where would I find out the Mc Reynolds tartan? Thanks. please e mail me off list. Bonnie ------------------------------ Date: 5 Dec 1995 16:38:40 -0800 From: "Carole Newson-Smith" Subject: Re: Leaded fabrics Reply to: RE>Leaded fabrics Susan Denney writes: >I hope someone out there can answer these questions. I have come >across a piece in our costume collection that had been previously >labelled "Do Not Touch - Treated With Lead." It is a one-piece dark >purple silk velvet dress that appears to date to the 1880s and is in >remarkably good condition. Surely the person who wrote the label was indicating that merely touching the dress fabric could be enough to get the lead salts on your skin, and that doing so is likely dangerous to one's health. Human skin is absorbent, and even a small quantity of lead is known to have rather nasty effects in the body. Carole Newson-Smith@net.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 18:14:10 -0500 From: deirdre@deeny.MV.COM (Deirdre) Subject: Re: Leaded fabrics Of course they present a health hazard, but the impact on the system is likely a non-issue, particularly if one is wearing the garment once or twice a year. I might point out that there is *already* lead in the air -- to the tune of about 150 ppm in Irvine CA circa 1981 (I took actual measurements when I was writing power plant control software). Granite seemed to have at least 50 ppm. I can't remember other measurements off the top of my head. The point is not that there is lead but whether there is a sufficient quantity to become bothersome. My guess is no, not even if you wore said garment. Remember, your sweat goes OUT of the body (helping to keep the lead from coming the other way) and your undergarments help prevent contact with the offending element. Just a scary thought though -- lead poisoning does cause a mental dullness. I wonder, now that I know about this treatment for rustling, if this was a reason that women were considered less intelligent? _Deirdre deirdre@deeny.mv.com "The two most common things in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity." -- Harlan Ellison ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 20:14:26 -0500 (EST) From: Drea Leed Subject: Watered/moire silk? When did watered silk/silk moire/fabric with that shimmery wood-grain pattern in it come into use? I just got a whole bunch of if, and am itching to make something period. Also, is there anyone out there who can give me a date when satin (the satin that looks like modern shiny bridal satin came into use? To the best of my knowledge, it was first created in Elizabethan times and named "mirror satin." someone once told me that if you turn satin backwards, the texture of the fabric resembled a period (1400-1600) fabric--does anyone know what fabric it resembles? Thanks a lot, Drea Leed 'Drea de' Pellegrini ******************************************* We've secretly replaced their dilithium crystals with new Folger's Crystals. Now let's watch them go to warp. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 20:21:40 -0500 From: lrp@westol.com Subject: leaded fabrics Susan Denny wrote: > >I hope someone out there can answer these questions. I have come >across a piece in our costume collection that had been previously >labelled "Do Not Touch - Treated With Lead." .... My questions are; do any, or all, of these >types of garments present some health hazard? At what point might >the lead become airborne and therefore dangerous? How can these >types of items be tested for lead content and potential hazard? >Exactly how was the lead or other metallic salt applied to the >fabric? Any information would be greatly appreciated. TIA. I've worked for an environmental company that dealt with lead problems among other things. Generally the greatest problem from lead is that it gets taken into the body by ingestion, and less frequently by respiration and absorption. Lead can be handled provided you take some fairly simple precautions. Generally use latex gloves, and make sure you wash exposed parts of the skin afterwards. There are some simple tests for lead, which should be directed towards either a lab that can analyze a sample, or by checking with an environemtal consulting company (not abatement-contractor) in your area. One test involves taking a swab and sending it for analysis. You can't tell if something contains lead by the naked eye. By definition if something has more than 5% (?) lead, it is considered to be "lead." Consequently, an object with lead in it may sometimes require signs or tags notifying people to that effect. Lead is still used in the United States for several purposes. Interestingly enough, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) allows lead to be used in the pigments on bread wrappers so that the colors will stay bright and adhere to the plastic bags. For all of those homemakers out there that wash bread bags and re-use them, you might want to rethink that habit. Exposure to lead is most harmful to preganant women and young children because it can cause birth defects. Exposure to lead if limited to a short duration and small amounts generally will not create a major problem. Exposure to lead will result in elevated levels turning up in the blood. If you remove the lead from your environment, or you leave the area where the lead is, then the blood levels will return to normal. This subject can be quite long and there is a mass of literature available. If anyone wants more information, please feel free to contact me for more. Les ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 20:11:53 -0800 (PST) From: close (Diane Barlow Close) Subject: Erte and movie costumes reference I found an excellent old reference for movie costumes in my local library, especially for early (1910-30) costume productions. It has a section on Erte and the costumes he produced during his brief stay, in the early 1920's, as a Hollywood movie costume designer. It was great to finally see pictures of Erte's brief movie work; it's been so hard to find! The format of the book is brief bios on the stars of each era, the designers who clothed them, and the costumes they wore, including lots of pictures of those clothes. It also includes lots of intricate details about the various costumes, including details not seen by the camera. Stuff like the fact that underneath Garbo's historical costumes (by Adrian), are petticoats of fine linen edged with gorgeous lace, or the fact that beneath the heavy fur cuffed sleeves of the coat Garbo wore in "Camille" are exquisitely embroidered undersleeves and cloth shot with gold -- details never seen by the camera. TITLE: Hollywood costume : glamour, glitter, romance by Dale McConathy with Diana Vreeland ; directed and produced by Marshall Lee ; costume photos. by Keith Trumbo. AUTHOR: McConathy, Dale and Vreeland, Diana. PUBLISHED: New York : H. N. Abrams, 1976. ("A Balance House Book") DESCRIPTION: 317 p. : ill. ; 31 cm. - -- Diane Close I'm at lunch all day. :-) If a Canadian Had Said It First (The Globe & Mail): "Cry havoc, and let loose the dogs of a peacekeeping mission!" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 20:19:27 -0800 (PST) From: Allan Terry Subject: Fabrics treated with lead A couple of other people have made comments regarding lead-treated fabric in a more scientific manner than I can. However, since I logged on I might as well add my two cents' worth. A few years ago there was a brief article on lead-treated silks in the Costume Society of America newsletter, _CSA News_. I did not save the article. As I recall, the gist of it was that a member (I think a graduate student) had chemically analyzed quite a small number of Victorian or Edwardian silks to see what they were treated with, and found that one or two contained lead. For a while people I knew, particularly those opposed to wearing any vintage garment for any reason, went around saying (on the basis of this article), "Never touch Victorian silks! You'll be poisoned!" What struck me at the time was: * Only a small number of fabrics were analyzed and the author admitted she had no idea, statistically, how many silks were treated with lead. * She did not quote any medical authority (live or a book) to say whether the amount of lead present was dangerous, or whether it could be absorbed simply by handling the cloth. * In this day of concern over environmental hazards and the tendency to sue employers when the job has caused health problems, I have never heard of anyone who suffered health problems from handling weighted silks. There are many museum curators, vintage clothing dealers, and collectors who handle them frequently. I'd think if someone became ill and/or sued you'd see an article in some professional publication, perhaps even the mainstream press. Although this evidence is not statistically significant, I've collected vintage clothes for 25 years (I started in my teens). I have handled, mended, and worn many weighted silks, and have suffered no ill effects whatever. Fran Grimble ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 20:30:34 -0800 (PST) From: close (Diane Barlow Close) Subject: Costume Open House Review I went to the San Francisco Bay area guild's costume open house back on November 11th. I even won the grand prize in their raffle -- $100 gift certificate for Britex. Now I have to figure out what to buy! :-) The open house was held to attract new members and demonstrate what the guild was about. I'm not a member, so I went to see what was offered. The format of the open house was a display of many different examples of reproduction historic costume paired with the appropriate pattern. On top of that, everyone who went got a copy of the booklet _The Great Pattern Review: Comments, Reviews and Criticisms of 102 Historic Patterns_ which was written by guild members. It was GREAT and EXTREMELY informative seeing the patterns done up into garments! There were a couple patterns that I crossed off my "buy" list once I saw them done up in person, and several that I added to my "must have" list, that I wouldn't have previously considered, had I not seen them done up in person. Several more samples confirmed my choices of good garments to make from patterns I have but haven't tried yet. I can't wait to start on those! It was the best education I've had as a costume maker to see those patterns done up into garments and to get to talk to the creators directly. The hand-out was also very useful and informative and rounded out the "in person/up close" experience nicely! If any other organization wants a great idea for an extremely useful event, steal this one! :-) Have an open house and display one or two samples from each pattern for your era/organization. Seeing them in person does more than words or this list can every hope, imho! Perhaps in the new year I'll consider starting an FAQ for pattern reviews for this list's members! In the meantime, if anyone has done up any patterns they'd like to comment on, please feel free to post. I'm planning on culling from the archives (with permissions, of course) before I start lobbying list members directly. :-) - -- Diane Close I'm at lunch all day. :-) If a Canadian Had Said It First (The Globe & Mail): "Cry havoc, and let loose the dogs of a peacekeeping mission!" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 23:41:55 -0500 From: TULLYT@aol.com Subject: Re: Erte and movie costumes reference I agree with you about the costumes of Erte. I've just done a talk about Paul Poiret and ,of course, Erte was mentioned often. He illustrated designs of Poiret and also did his own designs for "The House of Poiret". That era seemed to class fine artists and designers, equally. I've always been fascinated by their freedom and especially so soon after the corsets that were worn with the clothes from "The House of Worth". Some Poiret clothes look so much like Miyake, I'm thinking of the dress, designed for Madame Poiret, very early, that had an obvious stiffening, like a wire, around the bottom of the tunic top, sort of like a small, short hoop. It's fascinating, watching the threads of designs of old appear to be so modern. Any more info on their era would be great! Thanks, Toni ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Dec 95 7:48:47 EST From: Eric Praetzel Subject: Re: Fabrics treated with lead > A few years ago there was a brief article on lead-treated silks in the > Costume Society of America newsletter, _CSA News_. I did not save the At the SCA War event this year; there was a talk about lead weighted silks. Not only lead but also other salts such as arsenic. All very deadly. I'm not sure why weighted silk is any more valuable; but the weighting was done to increase its value. Well, done by the less reputable mills who wanted a quick and dirty buck. > * In this day of concern over environmental hazards and the tendency to sue > employers when the job has caused health problems, I have never heard of > anyone who suffered health problems from handling weighted silks. There are Severe, health problems due to lead are very easy to trace. You can look at people who delt with leaded fabrics like the "mad" hatters. Or you just have to look at children who play in soils that are heavily laced with heavy metals (near certain types of industries). But low dosages can create mental health effects which are not easily traced to metal poisioning. Lead was removed from gasoline because it can effect people without being very obvious. So we now have an additive in our gasoline which promotes cancer! Lead is easy enough to remove from the body; although I think that by the time it has settled in the bones it is too late to remove that fraction. This was done often enough to help poisioned children and adults who lived near factories which poisioned the environment. The was one case involving 2 children in West Vancouver. They had severe personality disorders; were uneducatable; ate wall paper and paints and after being treated to leach heavy metals out of their body (after years of attempts to try to identify the problem) they have greatly improved; miraclously so. Heavy metal poisioning seems to be hard to detect; or there is not consensous about how to determine if a person has heavy metal in their body. One test involves testing hair (particularly on people long dead) but the validity of that is questioned relative to a blood test; which other people question. From what I remember, the concetration of the metals in the blood can be very low even though there is enough stored in the body to upset your brain chemistry. So blood testing is only good if done within days of having a large dose exposure; or when the person is in an environment recieving a constant exposure. - Eric ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 09:58:08 -0500 From: deirdre@deeny.MV.COM (Deirdre) Subject: Re: leaded fabrics Lead makes white paints and pigments cover. This is one of the reasons it was used so long in house paint. You could REALLY get one-coat coverage in a way you can't now. Still, I don't think the social cost justified its use. It's been banned in artist's paints, but I really disagree that we should not be able to buy it in such small quantities -- I would prefer it to be prominently labelled so that I could make my own decision. _Deirdre deirdre@deeny.mv.com "The two most common things in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity." -- Harlan Ellison ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 09:39:33 -0600 (CST) From: Gwyndlyn J Ferguson Subject: Re: Elizabethan Portrait On Wed, 29 Nov 1995, Susan Courney wrote: > I'm looking for a color reproduction and was hoping someone here > could help. It's a portrait of Ar(a)bella Stuart when she > was a young girl, the one where she's holding a doll in > one hand.I thinking of making the doll, and would like to > find a color copy, so as the have a better idea of what > it looks like. The copy I have (from Antonia Frasier's > Toy book0 Isn't very clear. I have a clearer copy of the portrait you're thinking of, however, since what I have in my file is a photocopy, I can't remember if the original was in color or not. Even in black and white it is a good clear picture. I copied it thinking that I would like to make a similar doll as well, good luck! Ashelford, Jane. _Dress in the Age of Elizabeth I_ New York: Holmes and Meier, 1988. The page number is not on my copy, but it is in chapter 3, illustration number 49. There is also some description in the text on the same page. Gwyn *Gwyn Ferguson***Western Illinois University *SCA: Lady Gwyndlyn Caer Vyrddin***Lochmorrow-Midrealm *Internet: mugjf@bgu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 10:57:11 -0500 From: NeenH@aol.com Subject: Re: H-Costume Digest V3 #265 >I plan on making a 18th centuary gown for my senior prom. I want it to >be as exzact as possible can you give me any pointers on what to do and >how to accomplish this. For example they didn't cut most of the fabric >they just layered it. How can I get the same look but be able to cut >and sew the fabric? What colors are best for a fress of this sort? >things like this. Thanx for helping me out.. Colleen, there is a pretty good book, "Periods of Fashion", I believe that it's called, that has good 18th C. dress patterns. You have to enlarge them, but since the dresses were mostly rectangles and trapeziods, with occasional chunks cut out, then pleated to fit the body and stitched, the enlarging isn't too bad. Especially if you have a roll of freezer wrap (the big kind, from wholesale c;ub stores) and a grided cutting board. A friend and I made dresses from two patterns from that book last spring. Pocket hoops are available mail order from seversal sutlers, and full size patterns are also, but this book has a larger selection. If you make one with the flowing, folded back, I have plenty of fitting tips for you, having just made one myself. BTW, you need to wear stays under it to get the fit and fall/line of the dress to look just right. Don't forget to put your hair up and wear a bit of lace in it! - -Colleen (NeenH@AOL.com) (feels weird to address a note to my name...) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 00:16:48 -0500 (EST) From: Victoria Gilliam Subject: Sporrans (was Kilts & scones?) On 5 Dec 1995, Bonita Lohman wrote: > Could anyone tell me what scones ?sp? are made of. I believe scones are the > pouch that hangs in front of a kilt. That pouch is called a Sporran. I belive that many are/were made of leather (although I have a pattern that can be used with leather or cloth). > Also, where would I find out the Mc Reynolds tartan? You could check your local library (although my library isn't too great on the topic of Scottish tartan/clans/highlands/etc.) and I seem to remember that EPCOT (in Walt Disney World) had a British Isles section which had a Scotland store--including kilts, tartan, history...I think they had a poster/chart of the various tartans. Hope this helps. Ellsbeth Lachlanina MacLabhruinn mka Vycke' - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= | http://www.aksi.net/unicorn | Sangre del Sol, Trimaris | | Brain fried -- core dumped. | Future Knight & Laurel..... | - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Vycke' Gilliam z009341b@bcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 11:28:16 -0500 From: Kevin Richard-Morrow Subject: Re: 18th Century Gown At 10:57 AM 12/6/95 -0500, you wrote: > >Colleen, there is a pretty good book, "Periods of Fashion", I believe >that it's called, that has good 18th C. dress patterns..... I think the book refered to here is PATTERNS OF FASHION. It's in 2 or 3 vol.s and only one of them is for the period in question. Kevin Richard-Morrow Crpl. Jost Schell 15th Albany County Militia ------------------------------ End of H-Costume Digest V3 #267 ******************************* A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, send the command lines: unsubscribe h-costume-digest subscribe h-costume end in the body of a message to majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com. Thanks and enjoy the list!