From: owner-h-costume-digest (H-Costume Digest) To: h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Subject: H-Costume Digest V3 #270 Reply-To: h-costume Sender: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Errors-To: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk H-Costume Digest Tuesday, December 12 1995 Volume 3, Number 270 Compilation copyright (C) 1995 Diane Barlow Close and Gretchen Miller Use in whole prohibited. Individual articles are the property of the author. Seek permission from that author before reprinting or quoting elsewhere. Important Addresses: Send submissions to: h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com (or reply to this message). Adds/drops/archives: majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com Real, live person: h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Topics: buttons & buttonholes Medieval black dyes Re: Vest and Suspender Buckles Re: buttons & buttonholes The Seige of Fort Erie 1814 Re: Medieval black dyes Re: Need E-Mail address for Guild Mistress of Gilded Pearl graduate programs Black Re: The Seige of Fort Erie 1814 Re: graduate programs Courses Re: Black Re: Clothing Moths (fwd) Re: Black Re: Black Re: Black Albania T-O-C ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 10:35:17 -0500 From: strickif@dunx1.ocs.drexel.edu (Ivy Strickler) Subject: buttons & buttonholes Had something amusing happen this weekend and wanted to share. We are using a red wool 1860's boy's suit in a holiday exhibit and out of desperation I used a 1910 boy's blouse under it. Each has provisions for buttoning shirt to pants. Guess what? The button spacing and size is an exact fit for the buttonholes. Fifty years and nothing changed! And my software from six months ago doesn't work with my new computer! Go figure. Ivy Fleck Strickler Phone 215-895-1637 Drexel University Fax 215-895-4917 Nesbitt College of Design Arts strickif@dunx1.ocs.drexel.edu Philadelphia, PA 19104 "Never forget that life is like a Fellini movie, and you're getting to see it for free." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Dec 95 10:00 CST From: ROBERT@UIAMVS.WEEG.UIOWA.EDU Subject: Medieval black dyes In reference to the comment: ---------------------------- Text of forwarded message ----------------------- > Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 08:52:27 -0800 (PST) > Subject: Making stuff if you're in the SCA... > Diana Dills writes: > ... Difficult colors to obtain were reds, purples, and blacks. Black > tended to be "rusty" looking ... Black was commonly used in some monastic orders. It seems strange that the Rule would have required a difficult to obtain color. If black commonly washed out to a "rusty" color, why not require that color? Was black wool commonly used? Thanks. ****************************** Wendy Robertson Serials Cataloging University of Iowa (319) 335-5894 wendy-robertson@uiowa.edu ****************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Dec 95 12:00:24 est From: Hilary_Oak_at_SLU1@ccmaillink.stlawu.edu Subject: Re: Vest and Suspender Buckles Hi Mike, Two sources for two-prong vest buckles are: Richard The Thread; 8320 Melrose Ave., #201; Los Angeles, Ca. 90069 (213) 852-4997 or (800) 473-4997. They have all kinds of period costume notions, interfacings, corset busks etc. and I saw a 2-prong vest buckle in their most recent catalogue. Baer Fabrics; 515-E. Market Street; Louisville, Kentucky 40202; (800) 769-7778 These folks have just about everything and are really helpful. I didn't see vest buckles in their catalogue but they have things like suspender spreaders and bowtie and cummerbund hooks, so they probably have them. Good Luck and tell 'em I sent ya! - Hilary Oak ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Dec 95 11:30 CST From: vbetts@gower.net (Vicki Betts) Subject: Re: buttons & buttonholes At 10:35 AM 12/11/95 -0500, Ivy Strickler wrote: >Had something amusing happen this weekend and wanted to share. We are using >a red wool 1860's boy's suit in a holiday exhibit Would you please describe the 1860's boy's red wool suit? How is it constructed and trimmed? Thanks, Vicki Betts vbetts@gower.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 14:21:18 -0500 (EST) From: Christine Maves Subject: The Seige of Fort Erie 1814 Heloo to all fellow 1812 reenactors, Just thought I'd let you all know about a nasty rumour that has been floating about in our parts of Southern Ontario, Canada...We have heard that The Seige of Fort Erie, in Fort Erie Ontario, Canada has been cancelled for the August '96 events list...We are in the process of verifying this information, but we heard that the new manager said it wasn't financially feasible to have an event for '96, because the '95 event didn't make any money. Now if anyone was at this event, they would surely understand that this could not possible be true, the turn-out was fantastic..The Niagara Parks Commission holds the event in the name of Fort Erie, and they have quite the money make in our area...I will let you know if this nasty rumour is true, I surely hope that it is not! Christine [_________] "The hardest thing in life to learn is which bridge to cross [ ] and which to burn!!!!" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 16:45:32 -0500 From: MorellEtc@aol.com Subject: Re: Medieval black dyes In response to your question about medieval black dyes. True black was always a hard color to obtain until the advent of chemical dyes. While it is true that black was worn by some clerical orders in the middle ages, it was by no means the norm. The problem of the dye fading out from washing was not an issue as the garments were seldom if ever washed. Cost was not an issue as the church had money or had the authority to accept the cloth as a donation from a rich patron. One of the things we have to do when doing costume research for any period of history is to be able to look at things with a period eye. What seems impracticle or illogical in the late 20th century may have been the norm in an earlier period. Mike Morell "When studying the ancients what we must keep in mind that they thought they were modern" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 20:19:41 -0400 (AST) From: "Joy K. Pye MacSwain" Subject: Re: Need E-Mail address for Guild Mistress of Gilded Pearl On Mon, 4 Dec 1995, Lisa A. Tyson wrote: > > I would like to contact her requesting general information about the > Gilded Pearl. I also hope she can assist me with contacting the person > who heads the East Kingdom embroidery guild, Athena's Thimble. I am sorry that I cannot help you out with information on the Gilded Pearl but as for Athena's Thimble, you can contact the editor of the guild newsletter `Embellishment' and I am sure she can help you. The editor is Isabelle Elaine of Salisbury (Jackie Whitney, 525 Miffin Ave., Pittsburgh, PA 15221) and her E-mail is JWHITNET@gyrfakcon.cas.pitt.edu. I hope that helps. Elyene of Lochcarron MKA Joy Pye-MacSwain +===============================================================+ Joy Pye-MacSwain Phone (902) 368-7278 Atlantic Veterinary College E-mail: Stjpyema@upei.ca Charlottetown jkpyemac@peinet.ca Prince Edward Island +================================================================+ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 01:41:43 +48000 From: Trudy Subject: graduate programs i am looking for information on graduate programs in costuming. i'm thinking along the lines of either costume design/construction, or costume history/textile preservation. anything in the US or particularly the UK would work...even just names of schools to look in to. if anyone has any information, i would be much obliged. thanks, kendra van cleave bino@ella.mills.edu ------------------------------ Date: 12 Dec 95 10:40:00 GMT From: Mrs C S Yeldham Subject: Black I would agree with Mike Morell that the Church could afford to use black, despite the expense and the destruction of fabric, but it would only do when it perceived a need. All monastic groups were founded for different reasons and at different times. Although all monks took a vow of poverty, the ideal of poverty meant different things in different groups. The individual monk may well have been poor, in that he owned nothing, but the order or house he belonged to might well have been very rich. For example, the Franciscans (brown habits) were founded out of a radical ideal of poverty, were not a rich order (in medieval times anyway) and were only just accepted at their foundation by the Catholic Church - were nearly persecuted as heretics (its one of the key parts of the plot in Umberto Eco's 'Name of the Rose'). In its early stages the order avoided owning property, and the monks were supposed to be out in the world preaching. The Cisterians (cream habits) were a very rich order, with very few monks in any one house (they set up a new house when they reached a certain number). The purpose of their order was to pray out of the world, and they set up their houses in wilderness, which is one reason so many survive today. Tintern Abbey was inhabited by about 12 monks at any one time, supported by a large number of lay brothers, and even more sheep, and was continuously rebuilt from its 12th century (?) foundation to the end in the 16th century. The Dominicans (black and white) were explicitly founded to support the authority of the Pope (no trouble there about being accepted). The period pun was 'Domine canes' - dogs of the Lord. They later ran the Inquisition, taking a percentage of the property of anyone found guilty. They had houses, and collaborated with lay authorities. One of the richer orders, living in the world and representing the authority of the Church. They had the money and reasons to use black. Caroline There are always good reasons for what people did - its figuring them out thats the problem! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 07:49:02 -0500 (EST) From: John Sek Subject: Re: The Seige of Fort Erie 1814 Yes it is true Christine, the local Manager of the Fort has indeed been instrumental in closing down this event. Although I am not sure of all of the details and the whys it is a most unfortunate thing that needs to be looked into quickly and seriously. *********************************************************************** John Sek,C.E.T.,C.S.T. jsek@freenet.npiec.on.ca 222 Emerick Avenue telephone: 1-905-871-7449 Fort Erie, ON, CANADA L2A 2W5 fax/modem: 1-905-871-0696 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 07:54:49 -0600 (CST) From: "Maria A. Sanders" Subject: Re: graduate programs On Tue, 12 Dec 1995, Trudy wrote: > > i am looking for information on graduate programs in costuming. i'm > thinking along the lines of either costume design/construction, or > costume history/textile preservation. anything in the US or particularly > the UK would work...even just names of schools to look in to. if anyone > has any information, i would be much obliged. > > thanks, > kendra van cleave > bino@ella.mills.edu > > Kendra, There are several good schools over in the UK...or at least there were 3 years ago when I was looking into this field. Most are technical schools. I remember that one is in Leicechester or Leicechesterfield. When I go home tonight I will try to find the packet of information. Howver I have moved recently and that may be one of the things that didn't make it. Here stateside I belive that Hampton University in Hampton VA has a museum studies with an emphasis in textile preservation program. You may also check FIT in NY, but I'm not sure about that. I know that a university library will have several books about graduate programs, just find a librarian, tell her/him what you need and they should be able to point you in the right direction. If you can't find anything, let me know and I work at the Univ of Ark and I will be glad to head over our main library to find out more. Maria marias@comp.uark.edu \\\|/// (O O) - -----------------------------oooO---U---Oooo---------------------------------- MARIA SANDERS LIBRARY ACQUISITIONS EMAIL: MARIAS@COMP PHONE: (501) 575-4657 OR FAX: (501) 575-6656 MARIAS@SATURN \\\|/// (O O) U O .........thanks.... - ----------------------------oooO-------Oooo----------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: 12 Dec 95 17:01:00 GMT From: Mrs C S Yeldham Subject: Courses I would write to the Victoria and Albert Museum, Cromwell Road, London SW7 2RL and ask about approved courses in the UK. Caroline BTW The place is Leicester (and I have no idea whether it has a good textile course) pronounced Lei - ster (two syllables). There is a very simple rule when dealing with English place names ending in ..cester. They are pronounced ...ster. This is not the case is those ending in ..chester, which are pronounced with a hard ch, followed by .ester. They both derive from the Roman word meaning fort, and it seems to be very difficult for Americans! - probably the way we English swallow our words! (No offence meant - this is just for information!) Caroline ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 08:29:10 -0500 (EST) From: "Philip Edward Cutone, III" Subject: Re: Black Hmmm.... if my memory serves me correctly, a black dye was rather easy to make... Not sure if it was know medievally, but iron and tannin mix together to make black. I've heard the procedure used for cloth, and have seen it used on wood (with striking effect.... very nice indeed) the idea was to soak the cloth in tannin and then throw in some rusty water... (so it might very well be iron oxide and tannin) Sorry, i don't know if there is a fixative. Anyway.... if this were the case, would black be not so difficult a color to achieve? Can this be confirmed by someone more knowing on the matter? in service, philip ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 10:39:19 -0800 (PST) From: Julie Cheetham Subject: Re: Clothing Moths (fwd) Good info from Susan Denney - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 08:55:48 CST From: Susan Denney To: Julie Cheetham Subject: Re: Clothing Moths The number for University Products is 1-800-762-1165. They are located in Massachusetts and are in the Eastern time zone. I have purchased storage supplies for the Museum's historic costume and textile collection from U.P. for about six years, and have never had any trouble with them. They are very responsive and helpful to customers, and they carry a wide variety of archival quality storage products. Another way to treat textiles for possible infestation is to seal the item(s) is a plastic bag and place them in a chest type freezer that goes below 20 degrees Farenheit and leave them there for a few days. Turn off the freezer and allow the items to return to room temperature and then repeat the process. This is a relatively safe, on-chemical method. I would not recommend storing textiles in a cedar chest. Wood, including cedar, emits gasses that are harmful to textiles. Acid-free storage boxes are a good choice. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 10:42:21 -0800 (PST) From: Irene Joshi Subject: Re: Black I thought that the husks of English walnuts yields a black dye. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 15:29:50 -0500 From: Kevin Richard-Morrow Subject: Re: Black >Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 15:32:09 >To: Irene Joshi >From: Kevin Richard-Morrow >Subject: Re: Black > >At 10:42 AM 12/12/95 -0800, you wrote: >>I thought that the husks of English walnuts yields a black dye. >> >> > In my experiance walnut dyes tend from medium to very dark brown. I expect the iron based dyes will yield black. Iron filings mixed with nitric acid (aqua >fortis) is used to stain maple stocks on American 18th century long rifles and fowlers. The results can be very dark, nearly black. > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 15:24:42 -0500 (EST) From: Drea Leed Subject: Re: Black the color is more of a dark brown. At least, with alum it is. Drea On Tue, 12 Dec 1995, Irene Joshi wrote: > I thought that the husks of English walnuts yields a black dye. > ******************************************* We've secretly replaced their dilithium crystals with new Folger's Crystals. Now let's watch them go to warp. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 15:34:06 -0500 (EST) From: Kelly A Rinne Subject: Albania T-O-C Looking for Albanian uniform visual sources for a production of Cosi Fan Tutte set Turn of the Century, 1890's-1910. Please reply privately. Thanks Kel ------------------------------ End of H-Costume Digest V3 #270 ******************************* A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, send the command lines: unsubscribe h-costume-digest subscribe h-costume end in the body of a message to majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com. Thanks and enjoy the list!