From: owner-h-costume-digest (H-Costume Digest) To: h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Subject: H-Costume Digest V3 #277 Reply-To: h-costume Sender: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Errors-To: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk H-Costume Digest Thursday, December 28 1995 Volume 3, Number 277 Compilation copyright (C) 1995 Diane Barlow Close and Gretchen Miller Use in whole prohibited. Individual articles are the property of the author. Seek permission from that author before reprinting or quoting elsewhere. Important Addresses: Send submissions to: h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com (or reply to this message). Adds/drops/archives: majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com Real, live person: h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Topics: Source for silk chiffon? Re: Metropolitan Museum of Art Re: Metropolitan Museum of Art RE: Source for silk chiffon? Wedding silks Mob Caps In The Russian Style weekend in L.A./ San Francisco Dressed for the Photgrapher Beadle's Dime Guide to Dress-Making ARW pants stupid question Chinchula fur in Elizabetha Era?? Re: 1770's Frock Coat Question??? Re: stupid question Re: stupid question Scots/Irish "bog dress" questions ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 24 Dec 1995 12:54:39 -0500 From: Sanni1@aol.com Subject: Source for silk chiffon? Hi all, I have a commission to make a 1919 wedding dress. The underdress is going to be silk crepe de chine and the bride wants the overdress to be beaded silk chiffon. My usual source does not carry real silk any more (can you believe it?)! Does anyone know a good mail-order source for the chiffon? I will need about 4-5 yards. We are also looking for period beads, either clear or very light straw-color. The wedding is in May, so I need to get started soon! Thanks for any help, Sanni ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Dec 1995 06:39:14 -0600 From: wbbirner Subject: Re: Metropolitan Museum of Art shepgibb@mcn.org wrote: > The Met finally has a Web Page I'd be happy to see a catalogue of the costume and fashion books they have available. I know it is a very large list. Ciao, Bill wbbirner@ix.netcom.com (William B. Birner) Bill.Birner@nopc.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Dec 1995 11:09:00 -0500 From: Carol Bier Subject: Re: Metropolitan Museum of Art Bill wrote asking about a booklist on costumes and fashion. I wanted to let you know that The Textile Museum now produces a booklist, featuring books about textiles from around the world. Fall/Winter; Spring/Summer. Request it by mail: The Textile Museum Museum Shop 2320 S Street, NW Washington, D.C. 20008 Or telephone: (202) 667-0441 x 39 Or fax: (202) 483-0994 Or e-mail: textilemus@aol.com Carol Bier Curator, Eastern Hemisphere Collections The Textile Museum. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Dec 95 09:14:00 PST From: "Tobey, Pam" Subject: RE: Source for silk chiffon? < I have a commission to make a 1919 wedding dress. The underdress is < going to be silk crepe de chine and the bride wants the overdress to < be beaded silk chiffon. My usual source does not carry real silk Try G Street Fabrics' mail order department. It is a huge fabric store in the Washington, D.C. area that carries just about everything in about every price range. They have a nice selection of bridal fabrics where I got most of mine for my wedding dress 10 years ago and I am willing to bet that they have silk chiffon. The number for mail order is 1-800-333-9191. I have always found their service helpful in trying to find specific fabrics. Good luck, it sounds like the dress will be beautiful. Tobey Tobeypam@washpost.com (Usual disclaimer: I speak only for myself and not for my employer) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Dec 1995 15:10:55 -0500 From: jmcadam@bconnex.net (Jacqueline McAdam-Abhainn) Subject: Wedding silks Sanni; Try the following fabric suppliers for period silks/chiffons. I can't absolutely guarantee that they'll have exactly what you're looking for, but I suspect that they do. Additionally, Ann Feeney (afeeney@mcs.com) used to maintain a list of historical fabric sources, and she may still do. E-mail her and see if she can give you any additional help. Sterling Silks-Sterling Cloth 701 Cleveland Avenue Southwest Canton, Ohio 44702 (216) 456-0653 *they carry silk fabric of all weights, silk thread and beads Patchworks 126 East Main Bozeman, Montana 59715 (406) 587-2112 L'Victorian Couturier 2161 West Williams Avenue Fallon, NV 89406 *they specialize in Victorian wedding needs Fishman's Fabric Outlet 620 West Roosevelt Road Chicago, IL 60607 (312) 922-4170 * they carry silks from $5.00/yard G-Street Fabrics 11854 Rockville Pike Rockville, MD 20852 (301) 231-8998 J.A.S. Townsend & Son P.O. Box 415 Pierceton, IN 46562 (800) 338-1665 Best of luck, Jacqueline (jmcadam@bconnex.net) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 09:46:25 +1100 From: "GILLIAN RICHARDS (02) 716 3712" Subject: Mob Caps Greetings, I have noticed Mob Caps in pictures and such from about 1770, but haven't noticed any before. (So maybe I'm looking in the wrong place!) By Mob Cap I mean the women's head covering that is basically a circle of white fabric, with a drawstring or gathering about 1 - 1 1/2 inches from the edge. It seems to have been unadorned, and also only worn by lower-class women. Please contradict me if I have these details wrong - that's what I apply to you good people for! Any idea when they started? Was there a class and/or marital status ruling on wearing them? And were they linen? And finally, because so many movies and stuff show women with their hair loose, was all the hair supposed to be tucked up under? your ever obedient servant + - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - + | Gillian Richards - Multicultual Ed Unit |\__/| | | aka: gillian.richards@tafensw.edu.au / \ | | Official TAFE bit - did you know Christmas /_.~ ~,_\ | | is a Public Holiday? TAFE NSW - (02) 716 3712 \ / | + - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - @ - - - - - - + ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 13:33:58 -0500 From: Elizabeth Lear Subject: In The Russian Style To the person looking for this book, I found this in the most recent catalog from artbooks@netcom.com. I have ordered from them several times, and have had nothing but good experiences. 060 Onassis, Jacqueline; IN THE RUSSIAN STYLE; 1976; $35 MET/Viking; 181pg w/many b&w illus.; fine; paper; 061 Onassis, Jacqueline; IN THE RUSSIAN STYLE; 1976; $55 MET/Viking; 181pg w/many b&w illus.; fine; cloth; ...eliz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 14:33:13 -0500 From: JPMcTeer@aol.com Subject: weekend in L.A./ San Francisco I am planning to visit Los Angeles/ San Francisco the long weekend of January 26 (Friday) to January 31 (Wednesday). I'm hoping to find a little more sun and warm temperatures than I'd find at home in Minneapolis. Does anyone know of exciting costume/ textile exhibits, interesting theater, etc. going on at that time? If so, any additional information about price and how to get tickets would be appreciated. Please respond directly to me if you wish. Joan P. McTeer JPMcTeer@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 12:18:51 -0800 From: cynthia@caere.com Subject: Dressed for the Photgrapher From: mjschues@students.wisc.edu (Melanie Jo Schuessler) Subject: Review: _Dressed for the Photographer_ >The title is _Dressed for the >Photographer: Ordinary Americans & Fashion, 1840-1900_. >Severa divides her time frame into decades... >Her premise is that "ordinary" Americans--those not in the upper >class--dressed much more fashionably than previously thought. Then you hear a story that casts the entire basis of a scholarly work in doubt. Read on. One of the researchers at San Juan Bautista, Arch Hayes, showed me a photograph of his great grandfather as a young boy. They were a Spanish ranching family in California prior to the war for Mexican independance from Spain. They liked fine clothes and finer horses. This story takes place approximately the time of the Gold Rush. The family story runs thus. The small boy's mother went to the fanciest clothing store in town and purchased a suit in the American fashion for ther son. She dressed him in it and dashed him over to the photograher's studio. The picture was taken and the suit promptly returned to the store. --cin cynthia@caere.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Dec 95 14:42 CST From: vbetts@gower.net (Vicki Betts) Subject: Beadle's Dime Guide to Dress-Making Does anyone know if there is a reprint, or plans for a reprint, for Beadle's Dime Guide to Dress-Making and Millinery: With a Complete French and English Dictionary of Terms Employed in Those Arts, by Mrs. Marion M. Pullan. New York: Beadle and co., 186? [note: can't read the last number off of the microfilm, but would appear to be early 1860's from the text]. This is an *excellent* step-by-step guide to the young amateur dressmaker and would make a fabulous reprint, especially if augmented with some good diagrams or sketches of procedures, and a selection of period photographs, photographs of original dresses, and some fashion plates.......hint, hint. I do not know if anyone holds the current copyright, but I would guess it could be fair game. Vicki Betts vbetts@gower.net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 20:46:06 -0500 From: Mazelle@aol.com Subject: ARW pants I've been approached about making men's American Revolutionary War costumes for re-enactment purposes. I have a question concerning breeches. Did any units wear long pants or did they all wear breeches and stockings? Thanks Mazelle Neal mazelle@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 23:04:23 -0500 From: SyRilla@aol.com Subject: stupid question Happy new Year everyone. This may be a stupid question, but recently I have been asked to design/make a costume, that I don't even know if it existed. The lady ask me to make a captian's / pirate costume for her, she of a large size. This is for our Ren. faire. The time is set around 1500's -1560's. That is about all the information that I have. So I need any help that you could give me. Even suggestions of books that I could look in. Thank you for your help. Kimberly SyRilla@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 01:23:01 -0500 From: Neysa@aol.com Subject: Chinchula fur in Elizabetha Era?? I have been doing a bit of thrift store shopping and have found a few new ( or not really so new) fur coats and such to add to my collection. I routinely cut up old coats and recycle collars and cuffs to make garb for myself and SCA friends. Today I found a wonderful suede coat that was lined with Chinchula for a meer $10.00. Both the coat and the lining are in excellent shape, the lining is especially nice as it was made to be removed from the coat .(It is buttoned in). I want to use that lining on or with a dress from the late 16th C and want to know if it would be correct.( Maybe with a Spainsh surcoat or a small cape. I think that chinchula was found in South America during the time but would it have been used as a fur animal?? Would it have found its way to England, if not there then Spain or France?? I haven't a clue where to look for references. I have a wonderful book about sewing with fur, but it contains not a bit of history. Thanks for your input. Lady Gwyneth of Fountain's Dale ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 07:08:45 -0500 From: MorellEtc@aol.com Subject: Re: 1770's Frock Coat Question??? Robert; Sorry for the delay in getting this response to you but things have been pretty busy for me this past week. In response to your questions about the frock coat patterns, don't throw them out and do without a frock coat. There are already too many people wandering around in their shirtsleeves at 18th century events (both men and women). I think I may be able to help you with the problem. What you need to do is enlarge the sleeve and the sleeve opening in the body. This is fairly easy to do and hopefully I can explain it. If one of the patterns fits you okay in the body take a muslin front and a muslin lower sleeve and splice in about a one to one and a half inch triangular piece into each. The piece in the lower sleeve should go from the armpit to about the curve in at the elbow and the piece in the body front should extend from the armpit to about the waist. As these are muslin and not the finished products. the stitching does not have to be good, just enough to be able to press the altered pieces flat when you cut the finished garment out. Do this to both sides of the muslin and then try the pattern on before you cut the good material.keep making adjustments in the muslin until you get a good fit. (You may have to splice a full length piece into the sleeve and adjust the cuff accordingly). The late 18th century frock coat was usually designed to be left open or fasten in front with hooks and eyes at about center breast with false buttonholes and ornamental buttons. I recently got to look at an original with no front buttons or holes and no exterior pocket flaps although it did have neatly made pockets in the lining of the skirts. While the style remained fairly standard from the late 1760's through the late 1780's there were many variations as to cuffs, collar or cape and pocket flaps as well as trimmings and materials. Good Luck! Mike Morell (Morell Etc) "Always remember when studying the ancients that they thought they were modern" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 09:44:43 -0800 (PST) From: Catherine Kehl Subject: Re: stupid question On Wed, 27 Dec 1995 SyRilla@aol.com wrote: > This may be a stupid question, but recently I have been asked to design/make > a costume, that I don't even know if it existed. The lady ask me to make a > captian's / pirate costume for her, she of a large size. This is for our > Ren. faire. The time is set around 1500's -1560's. That is about all the > information that I have. So I need any help that you could give me. Even > suggestions of books that I could look in. > Thank you for your help. Hmmm this is just a thought -- I don't have access to the proper research materials at the moment -- but wasn't Grace O'Malley roaming the seas at around this time? There are a few descriptions of what she was supposed to have worn when she met with... um... Queen Elisabeth? (This is all terribly hazy in my mind right now). Now, from what I rmember it wasn't much like the hollywood pirate outift at all.... Catherine ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 11:45:58 -0800 (PST) From: "Carol J. Cannon" Subject: Re: stupid question On Thu, 28 Dec 1995, Catherine Kehl wrote: > On Wed, 27 Dec 1995 SyRilla@aol.com wrote: > > captian's / pirate costume for her, she of a large size. This is for our > > Ren. faire. The time is set around 1500's -1560's. That is about all the > Hmmm this is just a thought -- I don't have access to the proper > research materials at the moment -- but wasn't Grace O'Malley roaming the > seas at around this time? There are a few descriptions of what she was > supposed to have worn when she met with... um... Queen Elisabeth? > (This is all terribly hazy in my mind right now). > Now, from what I rmember it wasn't much like the hollywood pirate outift > at all.... Catherine Catherine, you recall rightly . Gra/inne wore to her meeting with HRH Elizabeth I what ladies then were want to wear--if the print I have seen reproduced is any indication--which was a gown of the period. You may like to read: Bold in Her Breeches : ... , which is a fairly new book about women pirates. It inc. illus. -- Carol ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 21:44:52 -0500 From: MacRuimmon@aol.com Subject: Scots/Irish "bog dress" questions Hello all, I am doing research on authentic costumes for Scots of the 16 century, which has been very hard to find. I've been doing a lot of downloading of past digests of h-costume to find previous posts, but I have yet to find what I am looking for. There is a book I've been fortunate to find once, but I cannot find again, and silly me, I didn't realize the importance of that book till I subscribed to h-costume mail list. It was called "Old Irish and Highland Dress and That of the Isle of Man" by Henry Foster McClintock (1950). In this book was information on the clothing of men and women. While much of this info was repeated in other books, concerning mens clothes; as far as women, I have yet to see that info. And I only photocopied a few pages concerning a few woodcuts and watercolors, as well as the "bog dress". Boiling down to my questions; has anyone seen or have a copy of this book? Has anyone seen the woman's dress, described on pg. 66, found in a bog near Shinrone Co. Tipperary? What time period would this dress be appropriate for? Is this usable for Scots of the 16 century? I am trying to reproduce it's form, and the description is good, but I am stuck on what I should do for the front of the bodice as it appears to not have any support for the breasts (and as I would like to wear this dress, I need the support.) Any advice, pointers or information on how to construct this, or where I can find a copy of this book, or even photocopies of relevant sections would be very appreciated. The description is as follows: "It is made of coarse dark brown woollen homespun, and consists of a bodice and skirt joined together. The bodice has a square opening in front, and the skirt, which measures about 22 1/2 feet round at the bottom, is made of 23 pieces of cloth or gores seamed together, each about one foot wide at the bottom and narrower at the top. Each of these gores, in turn, has three seperate quills or cylindrical folds, running down it from top to bottom at an equal distance from each other, together with a fourth quill at its edge so arranged as to conceal the seam which joins the gore to its neighbour. The effect this produced is of 92 seperate gores about three inches wide at the bottom and two inches at the top. At the top the skirt is drawn in by a multitude of small gathers, each held in place by a back-stitch on the inside of the garment, and is there sewn on to a seperate bodice. These details should be compared with Gernon's description of an Irish woman's dress in section 15 of Chapter VII. The sleeves are unfortunately too much tattered to afford any useful information as to their original form." Kimiko MacRuimmon@aol.com "she's a human bridge to stop the flow of blood... she's a weaver of peace." ------------------------------ End of H-Costume Digest V3 #277 ******************************* A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, send the command lines: unsubscribe h-costume-digest subscribe h-costume end in the body of a message to majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com. Thanks and enjoy the list!