From: owner-h-costume-digest (H-Costume Digest) To: h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Subject: H-Costume Digest V4 #18 Reply-To: h-costume Sender: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Errors-To: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk H-Costume Digest Wednesday, January 17 1996 Volume 4, Number 18 Compilation copyright (C) 1995 Diane Barlow Close and Gretchen Miller Use in whole prohibited. Individual articles are the property of the author. Seek permission from that author before reprinting or quoting elsewhere. Important Addresses: Send submissions to: h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com (or reply to this message). Adds/drops/archives: majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com Real, live person: h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Topics: Eastern European Re: Searching for Shakespeare renactments Re: Authenticity & Sources (long) Austen outfits Re: Austen outfits Re: Austen outfits more Japanese supplies misc Re: Austen outfits Exotic Silks Re: Austen outfits re: Bloomers Re: Austen costumes ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 01:48:25 -0500 From: kl94ag@badger.ac.BrockU.CA (Kathleen Leggat) Subject: Eastern European >If you want Russian, that's another list! > ...eliz > (SCA: Yelizaveta Medvedeva) Yes please! Pretty please. With sugar on top. (I don't suppose you also have anything in Polish 16th century?) Kathleen (Catriona) Very interested, because my boyfriend and I could actually wear the same time period and country for once...he insists on pants and I insist on corsets... "Teehee," quod she, and clapte the windowe to. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 02:10:11 -0500 From: SyRilla@aol.com Subject: Re: Searching for Shakespeare renactments Thank you to everyone that is responding to my query. I am sorry that it was not clear. I am looking for contacts, people that will "give" me their life story, or how they became involved, what they do, ect.. I would like to talk to a head costumer, or someone that is deeply involved in the costuming aspect. With their permission I will be writting about them in a short paper for one of my classes at college. Thank you again, Kimberly SyRilla@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 09:52:34 -0500 From: deirdre@sover.net (Deirdre) Subject: Re: Authenticity & Sources (long) Great message and 100% I agree with. I live in a small town in an intellectually-deprived area (14% of adults are college grads, which is the second lowest in the state). My library's open 14 hours a week and carries mostly romance paperbacks and the state laws. I can get interlibrary loans from anywhere in the state fairly easily, but there ARE NO RESOURCES for this sort of thing IN the state. I'd have to go to Mass which is 4 hrs away. Or Montreal, which is closer but which also has most of its resources in French. And my French is good, but not perfect. Suffice to say it's good enough that I get what I want in French-speaking restaurants, but I doubt that I'd get what I wanted out of a historical costume. Those who live in big cities and don't have the kinds of constraints I do (which also include time as I work 50-60 hrs/week). Nor can I afford the money to spend on costuming books when I'm likely only to have one or two costumes. Frankly, I'd rather spend the money on what I sew. I have too many books already. _Deirdre ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 10:48:56 -0600 From: bjwolff@facstaff.wisc.edu (Barbara Wolff) Subject: Austen outfits Hello fellow list-lurkers! I'm wondering if any of you might be able to illuminate me on a point of curiousity aroused by the A & E/BBC production of Austen's "Pride and Prejudice?" Many scene feature women in what appears to my eye to be a rather jarring dark blous and glaringly bright white skirt (empire-waited, natch). Was this the preferred combo of the day? Why white, since the color is sooo inclined to getting dirty pronto? Was this a class thing? Otherwise, I am enjoying the production greatly. Hope you are too! Cheers! Barbara Wolff bjwolff@facstaff.wisc.edu ____________________________________ Barbara Wolff Office of News and Public Affairs University of Wisconsin-Madison 28 Bascom Hall 500 Lincoln Drive Madison, WI 53706 Ph: 608.262.8292 Fax: 608.262.2331 Email: babs@macc.wisc.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 12:56:29 -0500 (EST) From: Astrida E B Schaeffer Subject: Re: Austen outfits I'm no expert on empire-style, but I think the "blouse" you referred to in your post was actually a spencer, which is a short jacket invented to cope with the realities of wearing flimsy little short-sleeved dresses in a cold, damp climate. So the color contrasts are those of outer-wear vs. dress. Astrida Schaeffer "All life on Earth is a fairy tale in which outlandish creatures pursue impossible lives" - Rutherford Platt ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 10:04:42 -0800 From: CBecht@lmumail.lmu.edu (Cynthia Becht) Subject: Re: Austen outfits Barbara wrote: Hello fellow list-lurkers! Well since I'm a devoted and lurkiest of lurkers... that almost sounded as if I'd been called out. :-) Many scene feature women in what appears to my eye to be a rather jarring dark blous and glaringly bright white skirt (empire-waited, natch). Was this the preferred combo of the day? Why white, since the color is sooo inclined to getting dirty pronto? Was this a class thing? The much more knowledgeable people on this list will give you a much more indepth answer; I can only answer, yes - from what I've seen, that combination of dark bodice and sleeves with white skirt was a very popular Regency outfit... looking at fashion plates of those times, I've seen more examples or close variations of that type of color contrast dress than any other. I'd be interested in knowing whether that fashion emerged from the effect of the dark Spencer jacket over a completely white gown... or were they parallel fashion creations? I would say that white was THE fashion color statement of the day, although all sorts of other colors were rampant too. As for it being a class thing... isn't dressing according to the height of fashion usually linked to class? A book called English women's clothing in the 19th century: a comprehensive guide with 1,117 illustrations by Cecil Willett Cunnington covers 19th century women's fashion with a blow by blow account of some of the main fashion points in EACH year: what colors/color combinations were favorite at what time of day, the length of the gown (it rose and fell variously throughout the Regency period), the accessories of choice. And it has a lot of text illustrations and plates, including some photographs showing pretty surprising (for me) colors. Anyways, it has quite a few examples of contemporary plates depicting that dark on top with white skirt combination. It was written earlier in this century but I think I've heard that there's been a recent reprint. Anyone have more details? I think it's a great book and as fun to devour as a catalog. Hoped that helped. I would enjoy seeing some more comments on the costumes in Pride & Prejudice and whether people liked them or not. I thought Jennifer Ehle (Elizabeth) looked stunning in almost everything she wore and I wondered why the dresses flattered her more than any other woman I remember seeing in that style... I thought I caught a few of her outfits gathered lower under the bust than the ones worn by her sisters... wondered whether they were accentuating her figure by accurate or inaccurate means. Any comments? Cynthia Becht cbecht@lmumail.lmu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 10:35:14 -0800 From: Susan Fatemi Subject: more Japanese supplies If anyone is seriously interested in practically any aspect of Japanese culture, get yourself the Bugei Trading Co. catalogue. 1-800-437-0125. They are located in Commerce, Calif. I sent them $5, but a freind just called them and got a free one. They are primarily martial arts, esp. swordsmanship, but have all kinds of books, videos, and materials available, including "vintage" kimono, etc. They have pics. of hakama but can't remember if they sell them, one could ask. They have stuff on the insence ceremony, tea ceremoney, ikebana. The catalogue itself is a great reference book (I havn't bought anything from them yet!) Susan Fatemi susanf@berkeley.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 14:06:26 -0500 From: reaves@tuvok.marian.edu (Anne Reaves) Subject: misc Here are some post-holiday, post-system crash (hacker attack), notes. 1. 16th c caps: Even in England a few miniatures show upper middle class and aristocratic women wearing embroidered coifs and daywear, not just nightrails. I would be more inclined to interpret that to mean embroidered caps were informal wear and were consequently under-recorded. 2. 16th c bodice stiffeners: A few years ago during an appointment at the V & A, I was horrified and delighted to see through the shattered silk of 16th c bodices several layers of something equivalent to modern "poster board" (don't know the British term--it's about the thickness of three or four business cards). Using this would be more authentic, more breathable, and about as inexpensive as plastic. 3. garters & stockings: Someone asked about how to hold women's stockings up. As early as the 16th c knitted stockings could be shaped for the leg like modern socks, so garters were not as critical. However, I have never had problems using leather or cloth garters under the knee, with the fold-over cuff partly concealing them. The Eleanor of Toledo stockings look like they were cross-gartered from ankle to knee--and if anyone has advice on keeping cross-gartering in place, I'd appreciate it! George Eliot has Adam Bede's mother lamenting that his sweetheart is too careless to make him properly fitting stockings (metaphor about her other behaviors, too). 4. attaching 1860's lace collars: Take another look at 19th c photographs. Often the collars aren't really attached. Instead, they are placed around the neck and pinned at the front. I never wear my bobbin lace collars any other way. Only when the wind is very strong do I have any problems with the back of the collar shifting. 5. 1890's chemises: The first two books are reprints of books showing patterns for all undies and lots more. Hochfelden, Brigitta and Marie Niedner, eds. DAS BUCH DER WASCHE Hannover: Th. Schafer, 1983 rpt of 1904 Niedner, Marie, Hedwig Stoct, and Helene Weber, eds. BEYERS GROSSER LEHRBUCH DER WASCHE Hannover: Th. Schafer, 1985 rpt of 1927. 6. Parasols: Look in historical lace books for parasols made in bobbin lace and crocheted lace. The V & A has several, as do many small museums in Britain and also in the US. These parasols were usually piece work divided according to skill. In surviving examples, the slightly different aging of the threads often shows where the sections divided. 7. Critics: I had to laugh at the remark about SCA people being uncritical about authenticity, because some of the nastiest (and least helpful) comments I have heard have been by SCA people. After twenty years in that group and thirteen wearing green leaves, I never volunteer criticism, although I frequently compliment people who have obviously tried hard on a project. Instead, I wear elaborately embroidered clothing trimmed with sixteenth century style bobbin lace, and when people interested in embroidery, lace, knitting, or costuming ask about something, I reply to their personal areas of interest. In my experience, those of us who teach for a living are more restrained about lecturing than those who don't. Regardless of the subject, find something positive to say for reinforcement, then mention only one or two points to work on for the next project. In academic terms, don't mark an 18 year old's essay according to the standards for a graduate student unless you are trying to destroy that person's spirit. One last note. I had heard that 1860s groups were much more interested in authenticity than SCA people. At an event with about 1500 reenactors, I was quite disappointed that not one person recognized that I was wearing a Bedfordshire lace collar (with more than 1,000 tallies)! Either they didn't know anything about bobbin lace, or they assumed that something so elaborate had to be machine made. And that was simple compared with Lester designs! Anne Reaves ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 11:13:01 -0800 From: fishcat@hooked.net (Trystan L. Bass) Subject: Re: Austen outfits >I'm wondering if any of you might be able to illuminate me on a point of >curiousity aroused by the A & E/BBC production of Austen's "Pride and >Prejudice?" Many scene feature women in what appears to my eye to be a >rather jarring dark blouse and glaringly bright white skirt (empire-waited, >natch). Was this the preferred combo of the day? Why white, since the color >is sooo inclined to getting dirty pronto? Was this a class thing? This does seem to be a pretty common combination -- I've seen it in museum costumes & fashion plates. It seems to be most common in outdoors &/or country clothes. White & pale gowns were very popular, and outdoors women would cover up with dark spencer jackets (the short blouse you saw). It's interesting how both the A&E "Pride & Prejudice" and the recent "Sense & Sensibility" movie both used color to contrast the rich & snooty characters from the poor-but-honest-and-sweet characters. The snobbish women always wore elaborate gowns in darker colors & lots of jewelry, plus very fancy hats. The kindly main character women wear pale gowns of simple cut, with little jewelry or trims. It's a very useful theatrical distinction, but I find it a little unfortunate that the fancier outfits must always be associated with such awful characters! Another thing I noticed, particularly in "Pride & Prejudice", was the English Renaissance/Tudor influences in the Regency ladies' costumes. I've read about this & seen it on a few museum pieces, but this production really took it to heart! Caroline Bingley's green dress (worn in London at Jane Bennett's brief visit) comes to mind -- over the green silk empire-waisted gown, she wore a darker green velvet over-partlet, *very* similar to the over-partlets worn by Mary Tudor. Also, Georgiana Darcy's gown at her first presentation to Mr. Bingley had a very ruff-like collar and long sleeves in multiple puffs, reminincent of Elizabethan slash-and-puff sleeves. Oh, and Lydia Bennett several times wore a velvet bag hat, exactly like the classic Ren. hat (this could be a handy tip for reenactors who do both Ren. & Regency events - -- if you plan the colors right, you can use the same hat for both!). Just a few observations on the Season of Austen .... - --Trystan @->->-- Trystan L. Bass --<-<-@ fishcat@hooked.net http://www.hooked.net/users/fishcat/ ------------------------------ Date: 17 Jan 1996 11:29:07 -0800 From: "Carole Newson-Smith" Subject: Exotic Silks 1/17/96 11:27 AM Exotic Silks Exotic Silks or Thai Silks has a non-800 phone number for those who are not in the U.S. It is 415-948-8611 When you talk to them, ask them for a sampler of the colors, and find out about what may be on sale currently. I was in the shop about two weeks ago and they had some coarsely woven fabric in solid colors that was marked down so that it was cheaper than the Noil. It looked like the coarsely woven linen we see around here in Spring, but the label said Tussah. Carole Newson-Smith ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 12:43:53 -0700 (MST) From: Piano Barbara Subject: Re: Austen outfits > I would enjoy seeing some more comments on the > costumes in Pride & Prejudice and whether people liked them or not. I > thought Jennifer Ehle (Elizabeth) looked stunning in almost everything > she wore and I wondered why the dresses flattered her more than any > other woman I remember seeing in that style... I thought I caught a > few of her outfits gathered lower under the bust than the ones worn by > her sisters... wondered whether they were accentuating her figure by > accurate or inaccurate means. Any comments? I noticed that the colors Ehle/Elizabeth wore were very flattering to her complexion and wondered if she or her costumer were working on the seasonal complexion theme and Ehle is a winter and chose colors for that season. Some thought may have been given to putting people in colors that emphasized a pale complexion (i.e., the wrong seasonal color for the person). I had a moment of Hollywood wrong costuming right after P & P last night as I channel hopped into AMC's _Far horizons_ and chuckled at the costumes that were so Hollywood. my two cents and does this bring me out of lurkdom, yet??? Barbara in Boulder where it's snowing and blowing ------------------------------ Date: 17 Jan 96 09:40:17 From: "Gina Balestracci" Subject: re: Bloomers Interesting thread on pantaloons, bloomers, etc. While writing a paper for a research class on the state of affairs in the English-speaking world in October 1851, I came across these choice bits. I particularly like the part that says Bloomers would've been popular if they'd come from France instead of America (at the very end). The New York Herald had fashion reports several times during the weeks from 13 to 25 October: [A day dress] A redingote of taffetas, with gold, gray, and black stripes, with narrow black satin stripes forming checks,--is exceedingly pretty; the body plain, sleeves ` la Grecque open to the elbow, with crossings of black velvet, and three bows of the same; a broad black velvet sash tied in front; the ends reach the knees, where there is another bow, and then descend to the bottom of the dress ( 16 Oct. 4) [An evening dress] Another robe of light blue tulle, a double skirt, with an under white poult de soie; the tulle skirt was covered with narrow blue satin, ribbon Pompadour body, second skirt was raised on one side with a bunch of white and blue hyacinths, with foliage. A wreath of hyacinth, passed round the plait three times, formed a simple coiffure, yet in good taste (18 Oct. 5) This fussy manner of dress did not settle well with many of the women involved in the new women's rights movement, and the following description of dress at the Worcester convention appeared in the New York Herald: The sprinkling of ladies in the Bloomer costume was very considerable, and presented quite a picturesque and interesting appearance! There were some very pretty girls dressed in the usual female garb, who seemed to enjoy the fun of the thing, while a large number were advanced in years and were generally habited in plain garments, many of them assuming the Quaker cut. (16 Oct. 1) Mrs. Amelia Jenks Bloomer, editor of the Lily, a temperance and women's rights magazine, advocated a new type of dress comprising full-cut trousers, a blouse, and a vest. The Bloomer costume was introduced at the Seneca Falls meeting (Trager 455), but its notoriety was at a peak in 1851. The New York Daily Times reported that a 10 September London women's rights meeting sponsored by a group of Bloomer followers had been canceled because the speaker, a Mrs. Dexter, either did not arrive or was not able to get into the hall to speak because of the large, violent crowd outside. The crowd was eighty per cent male (15 Oct. 4). On 13 October (5) the same paper printed a report from its London correspondent: Let it not be imagined that we are a bit nearer adopting the dress. A few strong-minded ladies may sport it, but by English women generally the adoption of trousers is not even to be dreamt of for many a day. Punch, or the London Charivari, was merciless in its satire on Bloomerism. Throughout the two weeks surveyed there were many references such as this one: Effects on Bloomerism--We understand that a claim for compensation for injuries sustained by Bloomerism is about to be made by the inhabitants of Petticoat Lane (25 Oct. 180). The only positive comments on Bloomerism were made by the New York Herald, quoted above, and the Illustrated London News: Bloomerism hardly seems to make much way amongst us. The Yankee yacht, the Yankee reaping machine, and the Yankee lock-picker were all triumphs in their way; but the new adaptation of trousers has made converts of but a very small number of feminine limbs. Yet most people agree that the costume is pretty, neat, and likely to be both serviceable and economical. At the theatres--each of which has a Bloomer face in esse or in posse--the effects of the costume is by no means what managers or authors expected from it. Instead of being nightly laughed at, it is nightly admired...At all events, however the fact is so, and it speaks well for the absence of anything essentially and intrinsically ludicrous in the transatlantic fashion...It should have crossed the Channel, instead of the Atlantic. Fashions coming from America remind us of the Thames flowing back again to Malvern Hills. New York is to London in this respect very much what London is to Paris....Had Bloomerism come recommended by a Parisian mania, its praises sounded by the Rue de la Paix... how different...might have been its fate (18 Oct. 491) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 14:32:52 -0800 From: CBecht@lmumail.lmu.edu (Cynthia Becht) Subject: Re: Austen costumes Trystan wrote: **** It's interesting how both the A&E "Pride & Prejudice" and the recent "Sense & Sensibility" movie both used color to contrast the rich & snooty characters from the poor-but-honest-and-sweet characters. The snobbish women always wore elaborate gowns in darker colors & lots of jewelry, plus very fancy hats. The kindly main character women wear pale gowns of simple cut, with little jewelry or trims. It's a very useful theatrical distinction, but I find it a little unfortunate that the fancier outfits must always be associated with such awful characters! **** Interesting point. Perhaps it stands out that way because often the heroines of Austen novels are the least rich amongst their set and the awful characters are richer. So, theatrical distinctions are inherent in the novels. However, when Emma comes out later this year, wherein the reverse is true, it will be interesting to see if the costumer decides to stick richer colors on the "awful" characters or on the richer heroine. It'll be fun looking out for this. Thanks too for the discussion of Renaissance/Tudor influence on the Regency costumes. I did note the jagged/dagged edges over puffed sleeves on at least one jacket and thought they looked very Medieval/Renaissance. Cynthia Becht cbecht@lmumail.lmu.edu ------------------------------ End of H-Costume Digest V4 #18 ****************************** A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, send the command lines: unsubscribe h-costume-digest subscribe h-costume end in the body of a message to majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com. Thanks and enjoy the list!