From: owner-h-costume-digest (H-Costume Digest) To: h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Subject: H-Costume Digest V4 #21 Reply-To: h-costume Sender: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Errors-To: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk H-Costume Digest Tuesday, January 23 1996 Volume 4, Number 21 Compilation copyright (C) 1995 Diane Barlow Close and Gretchen Miller Use in whole prohibited. Individual articles are the property of the author. Seek permission from that author before reprinting or quoting elsewhere. Important Addresses: Send submissions to: h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com (or reply to this message). Adds/drops/archives: majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com Real, live person: h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Topics: costume con 14 Ruffs Re: costume con 14 southern belle underthings Mother Pluckers/Amcan -- Feather Companies Nun's veiling Re: H-Costume Digest V4 #19 Re:red cloaks Red Cloaks Fairy Tale Ball Re:red cloaks Re: southern belle underthings The Seige of Fort Erie is lifted. Re: Nun's veiling Vintage dance class in Berkeley CA Corset Covers RE: Red Cloaks Patterns for Medieval Costumes Re: Corset Covers Searching for musicians' costumes... Leather apron source (& military goods) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 20 Jan 1996 15:47:48 -0800 (PST) From: "erin k. gault" Subject: costume con 14 I would like to attend the costume con 14 in Seattle this year but I feel king of weird wearing a costume. I know that probably sounds very weird, but I don't like dressing up in costume around people I don't know. Is it okay to go in regular clothes? If so, do many people do that? Thanks for your info. ***************************************************************** * Erin K. Gault Evergreen State College * * Eglentyne de Gaulle College of Witt's Haven * * Barony of Glymm Mere, Kingdom of An Tir * * e-mail: gaulte@elwha.evergreen.edu * ***************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Jan 1996 23:02:03 -0600 From: mkwhitak@facstaff.wisc.edu (Kathy Whitaker) Subject: Ruffs Hello! I am new to this list, and am looking for information on ruffs and stand-up collars. I am trying to make an Italian coat (I don't know if it has a special name) based on some of Vecellio's woodcuts. They all seem to have small ruffs (not big ones, like the Elizabethans). In the Janet Arnold book I also saw one with a small half-circle stand-up collar. I would appreciate any information anyone has, or a direction I can be pointed in. Thank you very much... Kathy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jan 1996 10:10:04 -0500 From: MerrimacGA@aol.com Subject: Re: costume con 14 Erin-- I can't speak for Costume Con 14, but I've attended many (more than 30) science fiction conventions, not to mention almost 10 years of the local Renaissance Festival. A lot of people do attend just in "mundane" clothes. However, I have and many friends of mine have brought with us and worn several changes of costumes during the course of these 2-5 day events. And that's just for walking around the convention areas and hotel rooms, not because we're entered in costume events or have to be for some other reason. It's because we want to be and because we're proud to show off our own or someone else's workmanship. (It doesn't hurt to have people come up and "Ooooh" and "Ahhhh" and take pictures and videotape us either. ) It really is a wonderful feeling and I hope you'll try wearing a costume (or so) at conventions but I don't think you'll feel that out-of-place if you don't. If you do, and you get the daring to, go out amongst the "mundanes" with some other conventions goers (e.g. -- to a restaurant) in costume and watch the stares you get! It's a lot of fun! - -- Mary Macdonald P.S. -- "Mundanes" is the name we sci-fi con people affectionately call the everyday "ordinary" people in the outside world who heretofore had no clue about us. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jan 1996 22:45:54 -0500 From: Amy_Hofer@Brown.edu (Amy Hofer) Subject: southern belle underthings hello, h-costume listers! Any ideas/info/references on what a Southern belle (ie Scarlett O'Hara) would've looked like with her dress off? It's for a play, so recognizability is prob'ly more important than accuracy. Thanks a mil (in advance), Liza Jane. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jan 1996 21:43:15 -0800 From: Karen Walker Subject: Mother Pluckers/Amcan -- Feather Companies Mother Pluckers 6253 Hollywood Blvd. L.A. (dk the zip) 213 469-5321 dk anything about them, but they have an office across the street from Oriental Silk Co. Amcan Feather Co. 8338 Beverly Blvd. Los Angeles 90048 213 653-1508 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 00:37:49 -0400 (EDT) From: CLT@ENH.NIST.GOV Subject: Nun's veiling Can anyone tell me about nun's veiling? I have a description that reads as follows: a very fine, soft woolen veiling, also used as a dress fabric. How fine do they mean? Presumably the wearer would be able to see through it, but how clearly would someone else be able to perceive the face of the person wearing it? Carol CLT@enh.nist.gov ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jan 96 10:30:56 GMT From: Alan Braggins Subject: Re: H-Costume Digest V4 #19 > > > A photograph is itself a reproduction of reality and selective in what it > > reproduces; it is therefore a secondary source. > The same is true of paintings, descriptions, eyewitness observation and memories, and even artifacts (which are selective in what has survived, and are often not a perfect reproduction of their original state). By this standard, there are no historical primary sources (and only one current primary source, anything less than the whole of reality being selective). ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 11:35:39 -0600 (CST) From: Deb Subject: Re:red cloaks Since no one else has answered, I'll insert my teeny bit of knowledge about red cloaks. The Kinsale cloak pattern I have has notes which say that during the 18th century ( and for some time before, I think) red cloaks were popular. In fact, I think I recall them saying that it was the most popular color in which to make a cloak. So the red cloak is not (if you believe those notes) a "movie device". Deb Baddorf baddorf@fnal.gov ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 13:47:58 -500 From: "Carol Kocian" Subject: Red Cloaks Barbara Piano wrote: > She observed that the four sisters in _Persuasion_ wore red > cloaks and two of the Bennett sisters also wore red. Her question is: > was red a color of the times and did it have some significance? Or is it > a movie device? thanks in advance for any comments or discussion on this > point. A friend of mine recently did some research for Rev War (1770's America) about cloaks. She read that red cloaks were popular with women and girls in rural areas. Little Red Riding Hood's cloak was not all that unique! The style of red cloaks was likely to still be around in Jane Austen's time, and in England as well as America. -Carol Kocian ckocian@epe.org ------------------------------ Date: 22 Jan 96 11:48:28 -0800 From: "SNORTON.US.ORACLE.COM" Subject: Fairy Tale Ball Those of you in the San Francisco Bay Area or those of who might be planning to visit us, a wonderful event is coming up that may interest you. THE FAIRY TALE MASQUERADE BALL Sponsored by the Greater Bay Area Costumer's Guild March 2, 1996 8 pm - Midnight at The Clocktower in Bencia (about 30 minutes Northeast of San Francisco) Dancing, Food, Entertainments This is a wonderful opportunity to wear your favorite historic or fantasy costume. Fairy/folk Tales are part of every culture and every century. The Clocktower is a large stone, building that will be lavishly decorated for this magical event. Bencia is a charming town with many Victorian buildings. There are several places to stay in the town, but it really is a short drive from San Francisco. For those staying overnight, there are many antique shops to exlore and several Victorian buildings open for tours. Several people have expressed interest in wearing Victorian ensembles and having brunch at the Hotel on Sunday. Perhaps you'd like to join us? Call the GBACG Hotline for ticket info 415-974-9333. Say you read about this event on the h-costume or f-costume list and receive a $5 discount. Tickets for list members are $40 for GBACG members, $45 for non-members. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 14:12:30 -0800 From: gwjchris@ix.netcom.com (Bill and Glenna Christen ) Subject: Re:red cloaks You wrote: >The Kinsale cloak pattern I have has notes which say that during the >18th century (and for some time before, I think) red cloaks were >popular. In fact, I think I recall them saying that it was the most >popular color in which to make a cloak. Further evidence that "Little Red Riding Hood" like many tradition tales was based on reality of the era when it was first recorded and then locked into its "traditional" version. Just my 2 cents worth. Glenna Jo Christen LHS, LSFS, MSAS & HSP gwjchris@netcom.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 16:29:38 -0800 From: denikai@ix.netcom.com (Marie Denikas ) Subject: Re: southern belle underthings You wrote: > >hello, h-costume listers! >Any ideas/info/references on what a Southern belle (ie Scarlett >O'Hara would've looked like with her dress off? It's for a play, so >recognizability is prob'ly more important than accuracy. >Thanks a mil (in advance), >Liza Jane. > > Well, according to the movie, she wore pantilets (which were long bloomers, to mid calf with lace and trimmings) and a corset cover (like a camisole), plus the ever-present corset. The movie has several scenes of girls in their underpinnings. Generally, this is pretty accurate. Marie ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 19:55:48 -0500 (EST) From: John Sek Subject: The Seige of Fort Erie is lifted. Thanks to all who sent out words of support for the 1996 Seige of Fort Erie (a Canadian 1812 historical battle site). Niagara Parks has relented to the wishes of this community and to the re-enactors themselves. Niagara Parks has OFFICIALLY re-confirmed the 2nd week-end of August will hold the 10th Annual Seige of Fort Erie. Plans are now underway to not only sustain the usually battle and site conditions normally found and expected but more events will be introduced as well. For example a military full dress ball is being planned. So get out your mess kits and gowns. Thanks again to all, *********************************************************************** John Sek,C.E.T.,C.S.T. jsek@freenet.npiec.on.ca 222 Emerick Avenue telephone: 1-905-871-7449 Fort Erie, ON, CANADA L2A 2W5 fax/modem: 1-905-871-0696 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 18:57:44 -0800 (PST) From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: Nun's veiling On Mon, 22 Jan 1996 CLT@ENH.NIST.GOV wrote: > Can anyone tell me about nun's veiling? I have a description that > reads as follows: a very fine, soft woolen veiling, also used as a > dress fabric. > > How fine do they mean? Presumably the wearer would be able to see > through it, but how clearly would someone else be able to perceive > the face of the person wearing it? Does the original context make it explicit that this item is worn _over_ the face? In the context of nun's clothing (or generally in its origins in medieval European clothing) "veil" referred to a cloth worn on the head, but not normally over the face. Heather Rose Jones ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 19:34:17 -0800 (PST) From: Allan Terry Subject: Vintage dance class in Berkeley CA VINTAGE DANCE CLASSES The East Bay Vintage Dance Society schedule for February and March is: January 27: 5/4 waltz variations taught by Allan Terry & Frances Grimble: Five-step polka redowa, 5/4 with racket & more February 3: The 1910s Inner Circle Toddle taught by Terry & Grimble February 10: Ragtime dance taught by Stan Isaacs February 17: Ragtime dance taught by Terry & Grimble February 24: Ragtime dance taught by Stan Isaacs March 2: Ragtime dance March 9: NO CLASS--HALL UNAVAILABLE March 16: Ragtime dance taught by Stan Isaacs March 23: Ragtime dance March 30: Ragtime dance All dance variations are researched from original sources, some especially for this class. We do our best to always teach fresh and interesting material, and to teach good styling. All classes will be held on Saturday mornings, 10:30 a.m. to 12:30 p.m. at St. Johns Presbyterian Church 2727 College Avenue, Room 203 Berkeley, California The price is $6/person. No partner required. This is a regular series of weekly classes that will continue in upcoming months. For further information, call Clare Burmeister at 510/524-9111 or send e-mail to clareb@consensus.com or aterry@teknowledge.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 20:41:22 -0700 From: Sharon Bolton Subject: Corset Covers I am confused about corset covers. Were they worn between the corset and the skin, or over the corset? Sharon in Phoenix where we finally had RAIN!!! Yippee! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 10:27:34 -0600 (CST) From: Deb Subject: RE: Red Cloaks I've looked up a few more details, though I don't have information on how long the style existed (somebody wanted to know if red cloaks were in vogue in 1500 in Germany): There is a photo of a simple red cloak with hood, in "Eighteenth-Century Clothing at Williamsburg" by Linda Baumgarten, put out by Colonial Williamsburg, but also available at bookstores. Pg 38 caption "Red wool broadcloth, modern lining, England, 1750-1810." [ which I think is the dating on THIS garment, not necessarily all red cloaks -- though it might also be the time during which they were popular.] In the text on pg 39: " ... The red wool broadcloth cloak was one of the most popular for outdoor wear in rural areas of England and the colonies. Philip Vickers Fithian described Virginia ladies in December 1773: "Almost every Lady wears a red Cloak; ..." " =================================== Another reference: I *think* the red cloak which I had been remembering was in "Fabric of Society: a century of people and their clothes, 1770-1870: essays inspired by the collections at Platt Hall, the Gallery of English Costume, Manchester" by Jane Tozer and Sarah Levitt. It's the Laura Ashley book which is better than their reputation might have one believe. I believe there is a red cloak pictured there, with similar comments. However, I don't have that book, so I can't quote. <===============================================================> < Deb Baddorf Fermilab, MS220 Arthurian,Inkling,&Regency fan Baddorf@fnal.gov PO Box 500 Costumer, RevWar re-enactor Baddorf@fnal.bitnet Batavia, IL 60510 MAC Q605 w/ IIe emulator & FPU ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jan 1996 21:44:48 -0800 From: Richard Morgan Subject: Patterns for Medieval Costumes I am looking for patterns to make period costumes for 600-1000 AD. Most immediately, I am looking for a pattern for an archer's hood. If you have products for these, I am interested. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 09:53:54 -0800 From: gwjchris@ix.netcom.com (Bill and Glenna Christen ) Subject: Re: Corset Covers You wrote: > >I am confused about corset covers. Were they worn between the corset and >the skin, or over the corset? Just as the title says, as a cover over the corset. A chemise was generally worn under the corset. The chemise protected the corset and the wearer from each other, and the corset cover protected the outer garment from the corset. Depending on when these garments were worn they may have had other less funtional purposes as well... Glenna Jo Christen LHS, LSFS, MSAS & HSP gwjchris@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 14:26:16 +0100 From: cddp51@ebc.net (CDDP DE LA MARNE) Subject: Searching for musicians' costumes... Hello ! I'm searching for informations about some do-it yourself medieval costumes (plans). Musicians 's costumes if possible. It's for a concert. (XIV th century - Roman de Fauvel). Please send me a scanned picture in my internet mailbox. Thanks for all. R. FERNANDEZ (for Olivier Fagot) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jan 96 16:07:00 PST From: "Tobey, Pam" Subject: Leather apron source (& military goods) Hello. I just received a catalog from the BW Trading Company (a military surplus wholesaler) and saw an item (pg 29) for "leather welders aprons." Description is "Made of very heavy leather which has been tanned into a soft flexible hide. The leather is almost 1/8" thick. These would cost big money if made today. At our price reenactors could cut it up for leather, it measures about 22"W x 34"L.... Unused, excellent." The price is $11.50 each (shipping weight is 1.5 pounds). Stock no. 3024. I remember several postings about using heavy leather for creating parts of costumes and this sounds like a good price, especially considering what little leather skins go for at my local fabric store! They only accept money order or check, but their service has always been good. You can call (614) 344-2772 and request catalog #102 (winter 1996). Hours: 9am-5pm EST. Their address is: BW Trading Co., Box 692, Newark, Ohio 43055. They also have several listings for different weights of khaki, olive drab and natural cotton canvas and twill yardage, some with waterproofing. They also have WWII goods and reproductions of WWI and WWII helmets, etc, including Germany. Also Soviet and East German military goods: medals, books, shoulder boards, buttons, collar tabs, emblems, ribbons, coats, uniforms, hats, hat emblems, belts, netting, the list is almost endless. And the prices are pretty reasonable, varying from one item to wholesale quantities of 100 or 1,000. To those interested in the leather aprons, if you can't wait, I can fax you page 29 with the apron entry, the shipping table and the order blank. Pam Tobey tobeypam@washpost.com ------------------------------ End of H-Costume Digest V4 #21 ****************************** A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, send the command lines: unsubscribe h-costume-digest subscribe h-costume end in the body of a message to majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com. Thanks and enjoy the list!