From: owner-h-costume-digest (H-Costume Digest) To: h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Subject: H-Costume Digest V4 #31 Reply-To: h-costume Sender: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Errors-To: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk H-Costume Digest Wednesday, February 7 1996 Volume 4, Number 31 Compilation copyright (C) 1995 Diane Barlow Close and Gretchen Miller Use in whole prohibited. Individual articles are the property of the author. Seek permission from that author before reprinting or quoting elsewhere. Important Addresses: Send submissions to: h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com (or reply to this message). Adds/drops/archives: majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com Real, live person: h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Topics: book recommendations Re: Bias weave hose Vintage clothing questions. Turbans, etc. Too many vintage clothing questions... Costume Con Oliver Re: Bias weave hose Re: Bicycle Costume Selling reproductions Re: Turbans, etc. Re: White weddings 1870s pattern Re: Bias weave hose Whole Costumer's Catalog More Godey's: 1857 Patterns Re: White weddings ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 06 Feb 1996 10:32:22 -0600 From: Jan Rosenthal Subject: book recommendations Can anyone tell me about the following books - worthwhile? Well done or not? Especially, any info/pictures of bicycle clothing? Thanks! :-) 59 Authentic Turn-Of-The-Century Fashion Patterns by Kristina Harris ISBN: 0486283577 Men's Garments 1830-1900 : A Guide to Pattern Cutting and Tailoring by R. I. Davis ISBN: 0887346480 Vintage Clothing 1880-1980 : Identification and Value Guide by Maryanne Dolan ISBN: 0896891097 19th Century Clothing (Historic Communities by Bobbie Kalman , David Schimpky , Antoinette Debiasi(Illustrator) ISBN: 0865055130 American Victorian Costume in Early Photographs by Priscilla Harris Dalrymple ISBN: 0486265331 Dressed for the Photographer : Ordinary Americans and Fashion, 1840-1900 by Joan L. Severa ISBN: 0873385128 American Mail Order Fashions, 1880-1900 (A Long Ago Book) ISBN: 0944593135 (I don't think this one is out yet - any preview information?) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 09:10:57 -0800 From: denikai@ix.netcom.com (Marie Denikas ) Subject: Re: Bias weave hose Dennis (outlander!ke6isf@ccss.com) wrote: > >I remember a while back when I asked about the authenticity of tights >in rennaisance costume, that bias weave hose was mentioned. >What exactly would a bias weave look like? > Bias weave hose look like big fabric socks. They fit a little loosely, especially at the ankle. They are cut on the bias of the fabric for the stretch that imparts. I have made them, I have worn them. As much as I love them, I will probably never do that again. It is difficult to sew the feet to the legs, and the feet wear out very quickly. Perhaps it was just the linen I used, but it seemed a lot of work for a little wear. On the plus side, they were comfortable, cool, and my legs were a lot cleaner at the end of the day. If you want help and/or advice on making the patterns for these, let me know. Marie denikai@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Feb 96 14:31:40 +0000 From: splumb@ic.net Subject: Vintage clothing questions. I have some pieces of Victorian clothing, and need advice on care and repair. I have been sewing for about 20 years, so I know how to repair things, but it's the materials I need to know about. Here's what I have: 1: A black shawl with lace edging. It is made of an very fine net with a few small holes. I can reweave it, but what type of thread would I use, and where can I obtain some? Also, how would I go about cleaning something so delicate? 2: A black shawl of embroidered silk with a knotted fringe. There are small tears where the embroidery meets the fabric. I have the same questions as #1. What type of thread, where to get it, how to clean. 3: A black dress bodice. The body is crepe with beading down the front, around the neck and at the shoulders. The sleeves (above the elbow) are puffy with a lace inset over sheer fabric on the top layer, and 10 rows piping halfway down. Below the elbow is a pinch-pleated net (extremely fine net) with lace cuffs. The net on the lower sleeves needs repair, and there is a 1-inch tear at the neck at the center back. Again, the same questions as before, (thread and cleaning), and also it needs to be redyed. Some of the black has turned brown. Another thing about this bodice. I would like to wear it once it has been repaired. If I made a flesh-colored undershirt, would that sufficiently protect the fabric from oil, dirt and other harm? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Sorry I ran long! Thanks in advance, Michelle. A sweet disorder in the dress, Kindles in clothes a wantonness. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Feb 96 13:41:36 PST From: ches@tristero.io.com Subject: Turbans, etc. You can order most of the SCA publications from: http://fermi.clas.virginia.edu/~gl8f/rialto/rialto.html Ciao @}\ Ches @}----`--,-- http://www.io.com/~ches/ @}/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 12:05:09 -0800 (PST) From: close (Diane Barlow Close) Subject: Too many vintage clothing questions... I posted the information for the Vintage Clothing and Costume Jewelry mailing list a few days ago (if you missed it, write me for the info). I'd like to remind members that our charter clearly says: "Also inappropriate for this list are advertisements for vintage clothing, for sale or wanted; for those, use the vintage clothing mailing list (contact listserv@brownvm.brown.edu), rec.antiques.marketplace, rec.crafts.marketplace or alt.fashion." Questions about the value of hats, dresses, collecting, or other valuation of existing clothing and accessories need to be sent to the VC list too - -- you'll reach a much bigger and better informed audience there, and this list should be kept to the already-big-enough area of discussion of recreating historic clothing. Adding vintage volume is too much. Thanks for your consideration. - -- Diane Close I'm at lunch all day. :-) If a Canadian Had Said It First (The Globe & Mail): "Cry havoc, and let loose the dogs of a peacekeeping mission!" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 10:34:46 -0800 (PST) From: Teresa Gallagher Subject: Costume Con Does anyone know if you can pay a daily rate to say, visit merchants, look at garb, etc. without having to buck $65? Teresa G. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 14:13:06 -0800 From: RMITCHELL@washjeff.edu Subject: Oliver I'm doing research for children's clothing for the first third of the 19th Century and am not connecting with references for institutional clothing in particular. Yes, the show is *Oliver*. There are 80 children - - M&F - all cast as boys. We've found collarless shirts with a 2-button tab front but alas in tee-shirt cotton knit - but the price is right. 1. EBritannica III suggests the technology for jersey knit was available bef ore 1850. Might this have included tee fabric - perhaps in an earlier form? 2. Any suggestions on head covers for the 35 girls, some of whom I'm told have long hair? Golf or newsboy hats are the obvious choice but I'm looking] for a uniform look and suspect the vaariations will be too many. Thanks in advance Kathleen Mitchell (rmitchell@washjeff.edu) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 18:11:02 -0500 From: BBrisbane@aol.com Subject: Re: Bias weave hose All weaves have a bias - it is diagonal to the right angle formed by the warp and weft. to cut a garment on the bias is to cut it on this diagonal, which gives the garment stretch. Stretch is desirable in hose, it is not desirable in firm fitting bodices or doublets. Let me know if you want to persue hose further -----Brenda ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 23:35:56 -0500 (EST) From: Katherine Cleaver Subject: Re: Bicycle Costume On Mon, 5 Feb 1996, Kimberly Smay wrote: > I am looking at two bicycle costumes reprinted from "The Ladies Standard > Magazine". It is in "american Dress Pattern Catalogs, 1873-1909" edited > by Nancy Villa Bryk, Published by Dover, 1988. ISBN 0-486-25654-5. > I bought my copy several years ago so I don't know if it is still in > print. There is also a 20-page article called "The Bicycle, the Bloomer and Dress Reform in the 1890's" by Sally Sims in a book called DRESS AND POPULAR CULTURE ed by Patricia Cunningham and Susan Voso Lab, Bowling Green State Univ Press, 1991 ISBN 0-87972-508-7 Hope this is of some help. Kathy Kathy Cleaver School of Fashion Ryerson Polytechnical Univ 350 Victoria St Toronto, Ont. M5B 2K3 kcleaver@acs.ryerson.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 20:36:41 -0800 (PST) From: Allan Terry Subject: Selling reproductions I may be wrong. But I think what Lissa was asking about was selling vintage _style_ clothing, judging from sentences like "I would love to know the best way to reach that clientele and market the clothing I make." I don't, unfortunately, have any definite information on this. There are a fair number of small companies that make custom and/or ready-made reproductions and sell them by mail. They often specialize in one or two eras. They advertise in living history newsletters for the eras they specialize in. Some sell ready-mades through bigger reenactor catalogs. Some vendors sell at Renaissance and other theme fairs. Some sell as "sutlers" at reenactment events. Many sell in more than one of these venues. Some companies have been in business for at least several years, and some of those also occasionally make for film companies, so this type of business can be successful. On the other hand, I've known people who thought it would be a neat idea to make costumes for money, but quickly gave up. My advice would be to research existing companies. The _Whole Costumer's Catalog_ has many listings scattered in it. As I mentioned, many companies advertise in living history newsletters. Some members of this mailing list probably make costumes for a living and could share information. To research a company, I'd send for and study their catalog, then ask for informational interviews about their business. It might work to approach a sutler who carries merchandise other than clothes, and suggest that you sell a clothing line through them. They'd want some compensation of course. Or approach a general reenactment mail-order catalog, like AlterYears or Amazon Drygoods, that sells a few clothes, and offer additional designs. My informal impression is that this would be a hard way to make a living. Any small business is a lot of work and the marketing never ceases. Reenactors certainly need and want costumes. But it's an expensive hobby and they're always looking to cut costs. It might be hard to charge a fair price for labor. Many can sew their own costumes, or have them sewn free by a spouse. And you might have to work with what you feel are crummy materials. Also, in any custom work you'd have to deal with other people's expectations, which may be unrealistic. If they don't sew they may have a dim idea how long it takes to make what they want and what it will look like when finished. On the other hand, do you really want to churn out umpteen similar ready-made velvet purses, or whatever? Hope this helps. Fran Grimble ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 19:50:19 -0700 From: savaskan@electriciti.com (Julie Adams) Subject: Re: Turbans, etc. There are many different styles of Turbans, but there is a basic style that does seem to appear in many cultures over a long period of time. For a middle size turban, I use a very fine cotton or gauze-type fabric about 30" wide, crinkled or folded so that it is much smaller, maybe about 3" or so, similar to the description Les gave, but I use about 6 yards or more in length. This makes a medium-sized medieval or renaissance period turban with or without a turban cap. Don't use slippery fabrics such as silk until you are really good at it or you might just commit suicide. Practice with fabrics that stick first. I start my turban in the same fashion as Les described, but I leave about a 1 1/2' tail hanging down the nape of the neck (because of the period/place that I am costuming). The first pass over the top of the head must use the fabric widened to cover the top of the head from nape to forehead, then right or left and start wrapping and always go that direction. One key I found to create a neat wrap is to twist the whole one turn each time it goes round the center back. (I learned this from a Seikh friend). I start by angling one side low and the other higher on the head, then even it out and reverse 1/2 way through to make an even thickness, but with all the last wraps angled in the same direction (which is typical of the Turkish and Persian turbans of the late Medieval and Renaissance periods. Basically the most common problem I have seen is when people try to wrap it horizontally around the head. It must spiral in angles. For example, go from nape to forehead, make a right. Hold that center point with your other hand....Wrap low down over the right ear. Hit center back, twist. Angle up over and above the left ear and temple. As wraps continue the angle flattens (on and on...) the final wrap should go from forehead, up and high over right temple and over right ear and then twist at nape and then around over left ear, back around the same to center back. Tuck ends into Turban or tuck and wrap into tight part of the Turban so that another end hangs down several feet long. Anyway, hope this explanation is not too fuzzy. Works for me... Julie Adams ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 23:58:13 -0500 From: MerrimacGA@aol.com Subject: Re: White weddings Les-- I've been waiting to add my own comments on the subject of white as a wedding dress color since I can't seem to locate the book I found the reference in. I think it was in From Queen To Empress by Caroline Goldthorpe but I'm not sure. Anyway, the reference made mention of the fact that white didn't become the primary color for wedding dresses in America and England until some time after Queen Victoria's wedding and I think it wasn't until the 20th century. Perhaps someone else has seen this reference too? It's been awhile since I saw the book. - --Mary ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 21:22:36 -0800 (PST) From: Allan Terry Subject: 1870s pattern Ysabeau, The State Historical Society of Wisconsin published and sells a small series of reproduction patterns, including a basic 1876 bustle dress and an 1873 bustle to go under it. The dress is a simple middle-class style. I have not made it. But I have made the bustle and worn it under a real dress of 1875 or so; it worked fine. I changed the pattern so the boning casings have the insertion edge at one side. Their instructions say to sew each row of casings in two parts towards the middle, where the casing ends are left open. Presumably you are meant to shove both boning ends in from the middle and leave a bit of boning uncovered there. This would be unaesthetic and slightly more work. Also, someone who has never made a bustle or hoop might be misled into cutting two separate pieces of boning for each row. Do not do this! A boned or hooped foundation with breaks in the bones will collapse. The patterns are available from: Patterns of History State Historical Society of Wisconsin 816 State Street Madison, Wisconsin They will send you a free brochure. The patterns are also carried by AlterYears (formerly Raiments). Fran Grimble ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Feb 1996 11:18:58 -0800 From: Veda Crewe Joseph Subject: Re: Bias weave hose I have recently made cut-hose and am interested in what anyone may have found for doccumentation during the Rennaisance as far as the patterning of the sole of the foot goes. As far as I have been able to find, the pattern pieces seem to converge under the heel, which is certainly going to be very uncomfortable to stand on. I made mine with a sole shaped piece on the bottom, a seam up the back, and gussets up the instep and corresponding spot on the outside. Cut-hose is certainly very comfortable. You definitely need garters to hold them up. Mine are made out of fine wool which I felted up by throwing the wool in the washer and dryer a couple of times before cutting them out. I made my husband a pair out of Black Watch tartan and the wool had felted up so beautifully that I was able to cut the top edge into scallops, as per the pictures of Highlanders of his era (1650) without much concern for fraying. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Feb 1996 14:32:51 -0500 (EST) From: "Gwyneth H. Crowley" Subject: Whole Costumer's Catalog Hi! Could somebody tell me where I could buy a copy of this book? Thank you. Gwyneth Crowley ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Feb 1996 16:39:57 +0000 From: Hope Greenberg Subject: More Godey's: 1857 Patterns Hello all - Each month Godey's Lady's Book, that 19th cent. magazine we all know and love, included the Practical Dress Instructor. This illustration was accompanied by a pattern with measurements for the enterprising seamstress to copy and adapt for her own use. Dresses, basques, jackets, children's clothing, stays, even men's shirts were included. Newly added to the Godey's Lady's Book web site (http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/godey) are all the patterns from the 1857 editions of Godey's. You can find them in the Fashion section or connect directly at: http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/godey/fashion/di.html There is one "broken" image that will be fixed tomorrow and some descriptions that will be added soon, but I thought this group would like the first look. Enjoy! - - Hope - ------------- Hope Greenberg University of Vermont ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 17:18:53 CST From: "Susan Denney" Subject: Re: White weddings From: MerrimacGA@aol.com Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 23:58:13 -0500 To: h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: White weddings Les-- I've been waiting to add my own comments on the subject of white as a wedding dress color since I can't seem to locate the book I found the reference in. I think it was in From Queen To Empress by Caroline Goldthorpe but I'm not sure. Anyway, the reference made mention of the fact that white didn't become the primary color for wedding dresses in America and England until some time after Queen Victoria's wedding and I think it wasn't until the 20th century. Perhaps someone else has seen this reference too? It's been awhile since I saw the book. - --Mary Along a similar line, does anyone know any references for information regarding white clothing in general, i.e. seasonal, symbolic, or other significance? I am considering a exhibit of white and light colored clothing, but I haven't found any references. TIA. ------------------------------ End of H-Costume Digest V4 #31 ****************************** A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, send the command lines: unsubscribe h-costume-digest subscribe h-costume end in the body of a message to majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com. Thanks and enjoy the list!