From: owner-h-costume-digest (H-Costume Digest) To: h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Subject: H-Costume Digest V4 #32 Reply-To: h-costume Sender: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Errors-To: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk H-Costume Digest Friday, February 9 1996 Volume 4, Number 32 Compilation copyright (C) 1995 Diane Barlow Close and Gretchen Miller Use in whole prohibited. Individual articles are the property of the author. Seek permission from that author before reprinting or quoting elsewhere. Important Addresses: Send submissions to: h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com (or reply to this message). Adds/drops/archives: majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com Real, live person: h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Topics: belting Re: H-Costume Digest V4 #31 Re: Bias weave hose Re: Bias weave hose Re: H-Costume Digest V4 #31 Re: Bias weave hose Whole Costumer's Catalog Re: Bias weave hose Re: Bias weave hose source for armor Re: Bias weave hose silk for Bias weave hose Re: Block printing of fabric Re: White wedding gown Slubs in Silk White weddings Patterning books Nun's habit Hose White weddings ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 14:19:55 -0600 (CST) From: The Espresso Pegasus! Subject: belting I am curious as to the belting, and or carrying methods used by the ladies of the Italian Rennaisance. Was it fashionable to carry things in a pouch?.. would it be placed low at the waist (though this disrupts the lines of the empire waist) or were they able to put a belt at the top?.. a wrist pouch?.. cleavage? :) I have found little referances to the 'practical accessories' in our library... Any information would be helpful, Thanks, Sarahj Davitt-Style sdavitt@ub.d.umn.edu ______________________.oO*Oo._______________________ You Can Fret Me, But You Cannot Play Upon Me--Hamlet ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 16:38:47 -0800 From: Susan Fatemi Subject: Re: H-Costume Digest V4 #31 I've certainly enjoyed the information about turbans, but I think no one has mentioned that in many areas, a small cap is worn and the turban is wound around that. Sometimes the cloth iis wrapped so the the cap shows. In areas of Turkish influence, the turban was wrapped around a fez or tarboush (you can see this in old paintings). In areas where the turban is no longer commonly worn, it lives on in clerical garb. susan fatemi susanf@eerc.berkeley.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 19:56:24 -0500 From: BBrisbane@aol.com Subject: Re: Bias weave hose I must refer you to my favorite book - the Museum of London's Textile and Clothing book (sorry, for once it's not sitting right here on my desk). the 14th C version has a seam under the length of the foot, and when done in a felted wool the seam edges are overlapped and whipped together - very flat, very comfortable. Actualy, the silk and linen ones I've machine sewed are also very comfortable with a bind stitch or serging. The same book has the foot of a 16th C foot to contrast to the earlier style - the cut is more complex. the shaft of the sock is split to make a one piece flap over the top of the foot and a seamed triangular flap over the heel; triagular gussets fill in at the ankle/instep, and a seperate sole is added. More work, but a smoother 'throat' is created to wear with dainty low shoes ----------- Brenda ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 14:19:23 +1100 (EST) From: Katrina Hunt Subject: Re: Bias weave hose I recently found a VERY interesting article (including pattern) of a pair of fifteenth century 'chausses'. It was "A Fifteenth century pattern for 'Chausses' by Christina Hawkins in Costume #6 1972. Apparently these are stockings worn by an order of nuns founded in the 15th century. The cut and pattern has not changed since then and they are bias cut. Try and find the article if you are interested. If you cannot get access to it E-mail me privately and we will arrange something. Katrina ******************************************************************************* * * * David and Katrina Hunt | thehunts@canberra.dialix.oz.au * * Stephen Aldred & Mathilde Adycote | 24 Edwards St Higgins ACT Australia * Baron & Baroness Politarchopolis | Phone (06) 254 3059 * * * ******************************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 23:55:30 -0500 From: "L. R. Peters" Subject: Re: H-Costume Digest V4 #31 Susan Fatemi wrote: > >I've certainly enjoyed the information about turbans, but I think no one has >mentioned that in many areas, a small cap is worn and the turban is wound >around that. Sometimes the cloth iis wrapped so the the cap shows. In >areas of Turkish influence, the turban was wrapped around a fez or tarboush >(you can see this in old paintings). In areas where the turban is no longer >commonly worn, it lives on in clerical garb. > This isn't the case in Egypt. The fez was worn there when the region was part of the Mameluke domain, but hasn't been worn for almost 40 years. In modern-day Egypt, the turban is worn around the head, but without any underlying skullcap or fez. Les ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 08:42:16 -0600 (CST) From: Teresa Shannon Subject: Re: Bias weave hose > I recently found a VERY interesting article (including pattern) of a pair > of fifteenth century 'chausses'. > It was "A Fifteenth century pattern for 'Chausses' by Christina Hawkins > in Costume #6 1972. > Apparently these are stockings worn by an order of nuns founded in the > 15th century. The cut and pattern has not changed since then and they > are bias cut. The article and pattern are for "winter chausses" apparently there is a different pattern for lighter materials for summer. Chausses are not the same as hose or stockings, these things can basically stand up on their own, don't need garters and are more like sock/boots. The major fault of the article is that the author cannot provide proof of when the order was founded or how old the pattern is, having taken it on "heresay" by said order. :-( There is little information provided at all with the article and pattern, at least other sources for orders or chausses could have been cited for the period she tries to ascribe these to. But it is an interesting and useful article. Teresa ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 9:49:23 -0600 (CST) From: "SHERYL J. NANCE" Subject: Whole Costumer's Catalog Gwyneth, I found the address for the Whole Costumer's Catalogue in the historical costuming FAQ. Here it is: The Whole Costumer's Catalogue c/o Karen Dick, Editor 207 Main Street Beallsville, PA 15313-0207 412/632-3242 Can be ordered for $18/copy, postpaid HTH! Sheryl J. Nance ...one of the secret masters of Kansas City MO Public Library the world: a librarian. They p_sheryl@kcpl.lib.mo.us control information. Don't ever p**s one off. - Spider Robinson, _The Callahan Touch_ (Opinions expressed in this message do not reflect the viewpoint of the Kansas City MO Public Library.) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 11:03:27 -0500 (EST) From: Drea Leed Subject: Re: Bias weave hose > Actually, the silk and linen ones I've machine sewed are > also very comfortable with a bind stitch or serging. What kind of silk did you use? I've seen the thin china silk in the stores, and when I pulled it on the bias, it didn't seem to have much stretch to it. If they're well-fitted, does the stretchiness of the hose really matter? Also, I want to thank everyone for the wealth of information about turbans and turban-wrapping that I've gotten. My friend will be eternally grateful for it. Drea ******************************************* We've secretly replaced their dilithium crystals with new Folger's Crystals. Now let's watch them go to warp. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 10:15:23 -0600 (CST) From: Teresa Shannon Subject: Re: Bias weave hose > > Actually, the silk and linen ones I've machine sewed are > > also very comfortable with a bind stitch or serging. > > What kind of silk did you use? I've seen the thin china silk in the > stores, and when I pulled it on the bias, it didn't seem to have much > stretch to it. If they're well-fitted, does the stretchiness of the hose > really matter? > Recommendation: silk/linen (45/55), silk/wool heavenly, silk broadcloth, any silk crepe over 12 mm, chinese dupioni not indian, tussah and noil only as a last resort. Teresa ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Feb 1996 12:45:12 CST From: Haney Kristina Subject: source for armor Sorry for the delay in posting this address. My catalog is lost and I had to go through old purchase orders to find the address--sorry I don't have the phone number. Anyway, this is a great place to get vacuform plastic for armor as well as lots of other non-clothing pieces. It's a theatre supply place so the catalog is filled with interesting goodies.And yes, they do mail order. Tobins Lake Studio 7030 Old US 23 Brighton, MI 48116 Hope this helps, Kristina ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 17:55:06 -0500 From: BBrisbane@aol.com Subject: Re: Bias weave hose Teresa's reccomendations are good; al;though I like a tussah or 'raw' silk without any noils (poo, ick, in any form, IMHO) because they are 'cushier' Of course, the best way to decide is to pull them on the bias and trust your own judgement. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 08:45:40 -0600 (CST) From: Teresa Shannon Subject: silk for Bias weave hose > From: BBrisbane@aol.com > Teresa's reccomendations are good; al;though I like a tussah or 'raw' silk > without any noils (poo, ick, in any form, IMHO) because they are 'cushier' > Of course, the best way to decide is to pull them on the bias and trust your > own judgement. > Just so people don't get confused, tussah is not raw silk. Tussah silk is silk gotten from the cocoons of the silk moth that have eaten tussah oak leaves, instead of Mulberry leaves. The resultant silk is less lustrous and even. Occaisionally tussah silk may also contain wild silk moths, which have eaten bit of everything producing a variegated silk in quality. Raw silk has to do with the processing of the silk fibers. Generally the cocoon is but in a warm bath to remove the sticky gums which bind the strands together. This also allows the natural shine of the protein to come through. Raw silk is silk that does not have all the gum removed. There are reasons for keeping it on, even though it isn't shiny and picks up dirt faster, the process is done on broken cocoons or cocoons you can't get the long silk for rheeling out of. Since the west has decided that "texture" is good and has given a ready market for it, silk producers benefit from both the "good" silk and the broken silk. Raw silks are weaker than filament silks, aren't as shiny, and tend to have some nubbiness, but much nubbiness is now faked for the market. Tussah is more often raw silk as well as the "silk noil" of those worms fed on Mulberry leaves. Teresa ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 10:19:52 -0500 From: Mazelle@aol.com Subject: Re: Block printing of fabric I have dated block printing back to at least the 1400's in Germany and Italy. It was used to simulate cut velvets. Since I have just started getting involved with this method of decorating fabric I used a linolinum block to carve my design. I pressed the inked design onto the fabric. After awhile the lines start getting fuzzy so all future ones will be done with wood blocks. Mazelle Neal ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Feb 1996 10:19:39 +0000 From: Hope Greenberg Subject: Re: White wedding gown The plate I had was in poor condition but, given the recent thread on white wedding gowns, I decided to add it after all. So, a fashion plate from Godey's of Feb. 1857 showing a bride in white with attendants and guest can be found at: http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/godey/images/picscolor.html The description that accompanied it is also available. - - Hope - ---------- Hope Greenberg Univ. of Vermont http://www.uvm.edu/~hag ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 09:18:15 +0000 From: "Leslie Helms" Subject: Slubs in Silk Ahh, silk--I can't comment on what to make with it, because most of mine is stacked and strewn around my home, unsullied by scissors or needles! Teresa explained the common confusion between tussah and "raw" silk; any silk is "raw" at some point in its processing, although the finest grades are rarely left that way because so much potential luster and hand would be unrealized. Dupionni (spelling varies) is often of quite high quality, but is heavily figured with slubs. I've been told that this occurs when a couple of the worms set up housekeeping next to each other, and the threads become joined in spots when the weavers touch each other's coccoons. The unreeling process is difficult, but when it can be accomplished the results are striking. Since this effect is now vaguely imitated in lower-quality silks, dupionni is becoming harder to find and I haven't seen any outside of Vancouver BC for a while. Now if we could just find a way to swap swatches online! Can anyone comment on the way the seams were joined in medeival bias hose? Lapped, butted, etc.? Leslie ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 11:10:06 -0800 (PST) From: Allan Terry Subject: White weddings According to _Costume for Births, Marriages, and Deaths_, by Phillis Cunnington and Catherine Lucas (Adam & Charles Black, London, 1972), white wedding dresses, or a combination of white and silver, became customary in the mid 18th century. They give a number of supporting quotes. Someone mentioned white mourning. I have a 1907 American sewing manual that says "Pure white is considered deep mourning; it must be dead white, not cream white, and is usually worn in the house." Fran Grimble ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Feb 96 15:56:39 est From: Hilary_Oak_at_SLU1@ccmaillink.stlawu.edu Subject: Patterning books Hi Arthur! Thank you for your response. I am posting this answer regarding patterning books to the whole list because I'm sure others may find it useful. There are several good books on patterning techniques. Two of my favorites are: "The Costume Technician's Handbook" by Rosemary Ingham and Liz Covey which has good chapters on pattern development, draping, fitting and alterations and: "Pattern Making" by Jeanne Powell & Carol Foley which has info on developing basic slopers and how to adapt the sloper with the "slash and spread" method to create almost any variation you can imagine. There is also an intensly detailed book called: Designing Apparel Through the Flat Pattern Method" by Kopp/Rolfo/Zelin/Gross, published by Fairchild Fashion and Merchandising. This one is a textbook that may seem intimidating if you are new to pattern drafting. Hope this helps. - Hilary ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 17:09:54 +0000 From: "Keith & Heather Schenk" Subject: Nun's habit Hello Folks About a week ago I wrote a little note about researching nun's clothing in the mid 18th cent. (America) I was asking for suggestions on research ideas. I had not been able to get up to the computer for several days but my husband mentioned that I had received some messages with nun subjects. The bad news is that all of our mail was erased. :( I was quite upset last night but have calmed down enough to finally sit in front of the offending piece of machinary. I would like to beg anyone who wrote to me to please write back. I realize that all of your time is valuable but so is your knowledge and ideas. I'm very sorry to have to ask this again but I wasn't able to see anyone's responses. Thanks to anyone who wrote the first time and a double thank-you for those that will write again. I remain you most HUMBLE servant Heather Schenk kschenk@fast.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 17:17:41 -0800 (PST) From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Hose On Fri, 9 Feb 1996, Leslie Helms wrote: > Can anyone comment on the way the seams were joined in medeival bias > hose? Lapped, butted, etc.? The Museum of London book shows a technique with an ordinary seam that is then top-stitched on both sides. Presumably the purpose is to create a flatter seam (which would certainly affect comfort on the sole of the foot) but I find that it has the distinct disadvantage of making it difficult to mend if the stressed seam rips out. Heather Rose Jones ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 21:02:22 -0500 From: "L. R. Peters" Subject: White weddings Fran Gimble wrote: > >According to _Costume for Births, Marriages, and Deaths_, by Phillis >Cunnington and Catherine Lucas (Adam & Charles Black, London, 1972), white >wedding dresses, or a combination of white and silver, became customary in >the mid 18th century. They give a number of supporting quotes. > >Someone mentioned white mourning. I have a 1907 American sewing manual that >says "Pure white is considered deep mourning; it must be dead white, not >cream white, and is usually worn in the house." > >Fran Grimble The phrase "the mid 18th century" should be placed in some type of social and cultural context. If you or the source are referring to upper crust English society, then please say so instead of making a generalization that takes in all classes and societies and possibly the entire world during "the mid 18th century." Please don't assume everyone makes an automatic connection with the when and where. Some context would be appreciated. Provenience and context is a very useful thing. Les ------------------------------ End of H-Costume Digest V4 #32 ****************************** A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, send the command lines: unsubscribe h-costume-digest subscribe h-costume end in the body of a message to majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com. Thanks and enjoy the list!