From: owner-h-costume-digest (H-Costume Digest) To: h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Subject: H-Costume Digest V4 #33 Reply-To: h-costume Sender: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Errors-To: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk H-Costume Digest Tuesday, February 13 1996 Volume 4, Number 33 Compilation copyright (C) 1995 Diane Barlow Close and Gretchen Miller Use in whole prohibited. Individual articles are the property of the author. Seek permission from that author before reprinting or quoting elsewhere. Important Addresses: Send submissions to: h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com (or reply to this message). Adds/drops/archives: majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com Real, live person: h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Topics: Re: White weddings White weddings Re: Hose Sewing sheer silk - Please help me! Costuming in _Restoration_, the film Theater magazines Re: Hose Helmets Hairstyles Thai soft resin techniques? Web site for braveheart includes costume info. Re: Pre-Raphaelite style? Re: Theater magazines 1870 - 1880 Clothing costuming for three musketeers Various Help with bustles Re: H-Costume Digest V4 #32 hand sewing Re: Help with bustles Re: Help with bustles hand sewing ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 09 Feb 1996 19:02:21 -0800 From: LMetz Subject: Re: White weddings I know this really isn't on the subject of Costuming, but I really must make comment here. Les--calm down, I can't believe someone in this group would be so rude as to make the comment you did about "white weddings". I don't think Fran was "assuming" anything. Like I said, I know this shouldn't be written here, but It really upset me that someone would make a comment like that. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 22:27:50 -0800 (PST) From: Allan Terry Subject: White weddings Lee, I would agree that context is useful. However, a recreational mailing list on the Internet is not an academic setting, where a detailed bibliography and footnotes are mandatory for every statement. I've previously posted messages on this list about competition in the costuming community and its negative effects. I'm not accusing you personally of anything; I imagine my message confused you and I apologize. However, one of the games I have seen people play is to put someone else on the defensive by making them quote their sources endlessly. Challenging what someone else knows is a lot easier than learning more yourself and proving it. It's true that some people pretend to read sources they haven't read. I myself have been known to challenge those who were obviously bullshitting (though I've passed up many opportunities for the sake of social harmony). However, I really have read _Costume for Births, Marriages, and Deaths_. I assumed from the context of the previous messages that we were talking about English and American wedding traditions. (Yes, there are sources to prove a close correspondence between English and American fashions, and no, I will not list them all; this could go on forever.) The information on the beginning of the "white wedding dress" custom begins at the opening of chapter 4, page 60 in my edition. The authors say, "The custom was beginning in the mid-eighteenth century." Their first period quote about a white wedding dress is dated 1768 (for England). They do not say whether this is the earliest reference they found. If you need the exact wording of the entire discussion about the beginning of the "white wedding," you may be able to find _Costume for Births, Marriages, and Deaths_ in a library. I don't have time to type it all in. Fran Grimble ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 01:26:55 GMT From: David Brewer Subject: Re: Hose In message Heather Rose Jones writes: > On Fri, 9 Feb 1996, Leslie Helms wrote: > > > Can anyone comment on the way the seams were joined in medeival bias > > hose? Lapped, butted, etc.? > > The Museum of London book shows a technique with an ordinary seam that is > then top-stitched on both sides. Presumably the purpose is to create a > flatter seam (which would certainly affect comfort on the sole of the > foot) but I find that it has the distinct disadvantage of making it > difficult to mend if the stressed seam rips out. Speaking from a practical, rather than an academic, viewpoint there is no need to finish off the seams of a pair hosen in this manner. As they are cut on the bias the cloth doesn't fray (mine don't anyway). Another point arising, for joined hose at least, is that the cloth is cut on the bias to make it stretch, and if they stitching used doesn't stretch it will be taking all the stress a leg can give it... more than enough to break it. I use a back stitch which does the job, a running stitch is useless. - -- David Brewer ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 21:07:35 -0500 From: webalder@niagara.com (David Webb & Sheridan Alder) Subject: Sewing sheer silk - Please help me! As my subject line says, help! help! I'm sewing a Regency/Empire/Directoire gown of sheer silk. The fabric store in which I bought the fabric labelled it as taffeta, but it's sheer, quite gauze-like, with a plain weave but with a fair amount of body. Sorry, I've always had trouble digesting weaving terms, so my description of the fabric may be vague. Actually, it's been coming along nicely until this week. One striking feature of this gown is a triangular panel, point down, forming the centre front bodice. Because the fabric is sheer, no matter how carefully I measure and position the triangle, it "wows" out! I have the selvage along the top, and just pressing the fabric (as carefully as possible, needless to say) will make one line which was painstakingly measured, "grow" by as much as one inch. At one point I stitched the triangle to some firmer fabric and tacked it to the bodice. Eureka! - looked even! - until I trimmed out the supporting fabric - all askew again. You'd never thought I'd taken a ruler to it. Does anyone have any advice? This gown will require a silk under- dress. Perhaps the easiest thing to do would be to line this triangle with the under-dress fabric, even though it's not as authentic. (Oops! "Not the "A-word"" everyone moans.) Please address suggestions directly, unless other members of the group are interested. My husband has started to hide the razor blades from me, with good reason. Sheridan Alder (squeaking and gibbering) webalder@niagara.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 23:23:40 GMT From: zorro@netdepot.com (David Marcus & Peggy Lamberson) Subject: Costuming in _Restoration_, the film I'd love to hear what folks more knowledgeable than myself have to say about the quality of the costumes in the new film _Restoration_. While I enjoyed the film enormously, I was rather disappointed in the costumes. They seemed only intermittently authentic, and some were just very gaudy. The set decoration in the court scenes was also extreme and a bit too fantastic. The one area I feel qualified to really criticize is the dancing, which was simply AWFUL. Ick PTUI!!! Their inept attempt to use Baroque arm gestures makes it obvious that someone connected with the project had some idea of what Baroque dance looks like, but either that person was incompetent or was so limited by someone else's artistic ideas in what he/she could do that the result is worse than pointless. But, more to the point, what'd ya'll think of the costumes? Peggy Lamberson zorro@netdepot.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 22:12:48 -0800 (PST) From: Allan Terry Subject: Theater magazines Does anyone on this list know of any theater magazines that publish information on costume, or review costume books? I subscribe to the USITT's _Cutters' Research Journal_ (and _Costume_ and _Dress_; but they're not theater magazines) but do not know of others. Editorial addresses would be appreciated. Thanks, Fran Grimble ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 09:41:00 -0800 From: Veda Crewe Joseph Subject: Re: Hose Heather Rose Jones wrote: > > The Museum of London book shows a technique with an ordinary seam that is > then top-stitched on both sides. Presumably the purpose is to create a > flatter seam (which would certainly affect comfort on the sole of the > foot) but I find that it has the distinct disadvantage of making it > difficult to mend if the stressed seam rips out. I had this concern as well and so used another technique of sewing the seam and stitching the seam allowance over to one side very close to the first seam. 1/4 inch or less. After sewing, I trimmed the seam allowances fairly close, cutting one seam allowance slightly narrower than the other to avoid the big ridge that two together form. Veda Crewe Joseph ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 09:09:43 -0600 From: Jan Rosenthal Subject: Helmets In "The Light of the Home," Harvey Green writes regarding bicycling wear in the 1890s, "For riding in tandem, the stylish woman might wear a suit corresponding in color to that of her gentleman companion. Gray, brown, dark green, or navy wool were the most popular colors, and were worn with white flannel shirts and white helmets." I of course assume that they wouldn't have worn the kind of bike helmet we wear today (what a picture!). Certainly they would have worn hats (Alpine, boater or tam o-shanter). Does anyone know to what Mr. Green's "helmet" refers? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 09:29:37 -0600 (CST) From: Joe Lichtenstein Subject: Hairstyles A few postings back, someone asked about references on historic hairstyles. One excellent book I have is "Fashions in Hair" by Richard Corson. The book covers the Egytian era through the Disco era and includes men's and women's styles. This book is a little pricey, about $100, but I think well worth it. Amazon Drygoods had it listed in their latest catalog if you have trouble locating it. Lezlie Olde World Drygoods ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 12:52:17 +0700 (GMT+0700) From: Chaweewan Hutacharern Subject: Thai soft resin techniques? I am a textile designer in Thailand and would like to ask you some questions I couldn't find the answer in Thailand. Do you know anyone over there that use soft resin techniques in their design? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 21:28:05 +0800 From: bill@iinet.net.au (Bill and Gaynor McConnell) Subject: Web site for braveheart includes costume info. Hi, I am sure this topic has been done to death but in case anyone is interested there is a web site for bravheart costumes at: http://www.foresight.co.uk/braveheart/bravetext/tbrcostume.html The costume director seems to have done some homework at least. Regards, Bill... - -------------------------------------------------------- Bill and Gaynor McConnell _--_|\ 19 Walter Road, Bassendean / \ Perth-->\_.--._/ Perth, WA 6000, Australia v Tel (Home): +61 9 279 8509 Tel (Mobile): +61 014 822 876 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 09:48:24 -0600 (CST) From: Joe Lichtenstein Subject: Re: Pre-Raphaelite style? At 09:55 PM 2/5/96 -0500, you wrote: Any suggestions? I would particularly like to hear >from people on how to get my makeup to look right, and how to imitate hair >styles of the period, and if anyone knows of designers or stores who sell >reasonably priced facsimiles of styles which evoke this era. I know how I >am *supposed* to look, I just need the sources to help me get there. Have you looked at copies of "Victoria" magazine? I have a subscription and it seems there are always some beautiful photos of models with soft hair and make-up with Victorian/Edwardian styled clothing on. Also, lots of ads in the back of each issue for this style clothing. What types of clothing are you looking for? My husband and I have a business making 18th century reproduction clothing for reenactors, but I'm interested in branching out into different eras. Maybe we can help you if you can't find what you're looking for elsewhere. Lezlie Olde World Drygoods ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 96 12:04:08 est From: Hilary_Oak_at_SLU1@ccmaillink.stlawu.edu Subject: Re: Theater magazines Hi Fran, The USITT publication TD&T (Theatre Design and Technology) carries a few costume related artcles and is planning to include more. (I think you may have to be a member to subscribe.) Also, there is a mag called TCI (Theatre Crafts Industry??) which has an occasional costume article. I don't have publisher info handy but I think you can find them both through the internet. Thats all I can think of at the moment, except ofcourse the new "Rags" newsletter for book reviews that was mentioned on this list a few weeks back. If you hear of others I'ld be interested too. HO! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 20:32:50 -0500 From: SFDey@aol.com Subject: 1870 - 1880 Clothing Would anyone have any suggestions as to where to find patterns and/or clothing for men , women and children that would be appropriate for 1875. I am the site manager for a historic site interpeting the canal era. We are looking for the patterns of the time and photos as to how the clothing would have be been worn. Thanks, Steve ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 13:59:12 -0500 From: Michele Hansen Subject: costuming for three musketeers I am looking for help in accessing patterns, and ideas for costuming the local High School production of the Three Musketeers. Sending from a small town in Ontario, Canada. Can you help?? - -- Michele Hansen ------------------------------ Date: 12 Feb 96 17:05:00 GMT From: Mrs C S Yeldham Subject: Various I was interested in the notes on hose, as I use that C15 pattern for chauses. I was particularly interested in the note about sewing down the edges of the seams (separately, I assume), as I had worked that out independently, because it makes the hose much more comfortable (nothing to do with prevently fraying - you need wool that won't fray anyway!). I agree with David Brewer (Hi), that the stitch needed must take into account the stretch needed for the hose - I use a loose back stitch for the seam and a running stitch (with occasional back stitches to prevent pulling) to hold down the seam allowance. Medieval Dress and Textiles Society - I have found a contact address! Try Ms Lisa Monnas, MEDATS, 16 Aubrey Walk, London W8 7JG. They are organising 'Dress and Visual Culture in Italy 1300 - 1600 21-22 June 1996 at the Courtaulds Institute of Art, Somerset House, London. Inter-disciplinary exploration of significance of dress and textiles inthe visual art of Late Medieval and Renaissance Italy. Papers will be given by historians of art and dress, economic and social hisotirans, archaelogists and conservators. Several eminent Italian specialists will be participating as well as European, British and American scholars. (I'm just trying to make you American's jealous!) Silk Mill - I am still trying to get details. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 15:13:17 -0500 From: Danelleb@aol.com Subject: Help with bustles I am working on designing an evening gown from the late 1800's. The dress I have designed requires the use of a bustle. The problem: I'm not really sure where to begin in creating one. Can anyone give me help? Information on books, patterns, personal experience, etc. would be very much appreciated. Thanks. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 12:44:15 -0800 From: Susan Fatemi Subject: Re: H-Costume Digest V4 #32 I missed the original posting on block printing textiles, so I may be responding to the wrong thing, but surely this technique originated in India (or maybe China?) long before 1400 AD. Another way "blocks" are used to print fabrics (I always thought of them as just printing the ink/dye directly on the fabric) is that a *resist* of some kind (paste, mud, etc.) is "printed", and then the piece is dyed. When the resist is removed, you have a white (or whatever) design left. this was recently explained to me as being one of the ways those Indian blocks you sometimes find are used. Susan Fatemi susanf@eerc.berkeley.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 96 15:02:36 PST From: ches@tristero.io.com Subject: hand sewing I finally did it! I hand sewed an entire dress! Long seams and all. But now I have more questions than I thought I ever would, and I thought I knew a lot about sewing. I was sooooo wrong! I made a Greman ren dress similar to the photos that Heidelberg posted earlier. And it took only 5 hrs! (No trim or sleeves just body) My questions: What kind of hand stitch do you use when you attach a bodice to a gathered skirt that will not break when your husband steps on your train? What kind of series of hand stitches do you use to secure the hem so that it will not break when you step on it too much? Other than a rolled hem what other hand stitch would work to keep stuff like say oh baby wale from raveling? Ciao @}\ Ches @}----`--,-- http://www.io.com/~ches/ @}/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 14:58:47 -0700 From: kmills Subject: Re: Help with bustles The dress I > have designed requires the use of a bustle. The problem: I'm not really sure > where to begin in creating one. Danelle, A wonderful reference that you should look at first is the book "Corsets and Crinolines" by Norah Waugh. There are clear illustrations and photos of different styles of bustled petticoats as well as a few actual patterns that you can enlarge. It's a classic! Good luck. Adios, K.P. Mills ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 20:59:15 -0600 (CST) From: Joe Lichtenstein Subject: Re: Help with bustles At 03:13 PM 2/12/96 -0500, you wrote: >I am working on designing an evening gown from the late 1800's. The dress I >have designed requires the use of a bustle. The problem: I'm not really sure >where to begin in creating one. Can anyone give me help? Information on >books, patterns, personal experience, etc. would be very much appreciated. > Thanks. > Patterns of History has an 1873 Bustle pattern in their line. I believe this is the bustle I had to wear when I worked at Living History Farms. Fairly comfortable, for a bustle. You just have to remember to push it up and out of your way before you sit down. Quite a few squashed bustles as I recall. This pattern should be available through Amazon Drygoods or AlterYears. Lezlie Olde World Drygoods ------------------------------ Date: 13 Feb 96 10:37:00 GMT From: Mrs C S Yeldham Subject: hand sewing to Ches, Congratulations - as a long term hand sewer, I've always found it very satisfying (and it doesn't take as long as people fear!). Some answers to your questions: 1. I don't think its the stitch that is crucial, it's the thread! I use double the thread on crucial seams like the waist one. As a UK sewer my advice on thread is probably not useful, but Gutemer (sic) do a quilters thread which is very strong and thicker than normal. The other technique is to train your husband (and everyone else) not to tread on your train (of course, in period, people would have been used to long skirts and trains ...)! 2. See second answer above! - come to think of it, the first answer applies as well! 3. You're not using corduroy for German renaissence, are you? Well, anyway, for corduroy or velvet, or any other fabric likely to fray (have you tried dupion silk?) , I use whip stitch on the edges before I start sewing the seams. Caroline Is it just me or are threads getting weaker? ------------------------------ End of H-Costume Digest V4 #33 ****************************** A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, send the command lines: unsubscribe h-costume-digest subscribe h-costume end in the body of a message to majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com. Thanks and enjoy the list!