From: owner-h-costume-digest (H-Costume Digest) To: h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Subject: H-Costume Digest V4 #35 Reply-To: h-costume Sender: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Errors-To: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk H-Costume Digest Thursday, February 15 1996 Volume 4, Number 35 Compilation copyright (C) 1995 Diane Barlow Close and Gretchen Miller Use in whole prohibited. Individual articles are the property of the author. Seek permission from that author before reprinting or quoting elsewhere. Important Addresses: Send submissions to: h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com (or reply to this message). Adds/drops/archives: majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com Real, live person: h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Topics: Re: metallic trim? Re: Web site for braveheart includes costume info. Re: Filling a Berlin Woolwork Pincushion Re: Filling a Pincushion BATIK Re: cendal courduroy New York Fashion circa 1695 Re: H-Costume Digest V4 #32 English Renaissence Re: batik Re: H-Costume Digest V4 #34 Thanks for advice on sewing sheer silk re: filling pin cushions costume patterns Fashion and Fetishism Amish clothes Lace Re: filling pin cushions Re: metallic trim? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 15:35:46 -0500 From: ASchell576@aol.com Subject: Re: metallic trim? hi.....there is a place in miami call "casa de la viejas" (which translates to house of the old ladies") which carries a very large selection of metalic trim and braid as well as brass buttons. I am not sure what you are looking for exactly but if you call them and describe what you are looking for or send them a sample or picture, i am sure they could find it. I have lived in new york, california and here in miami and they have the largest assortment that I have seen. Unfortunately, i do not have their phone number with me nor do i have access to a telephone book right now, but you could get there number from information (305) 555-1212. If they are not listed under their above name, they might also be listed under "P&K Oriental" as this is their dba name. if you do not speak spanish, E-Mail me and i will find out the name of someone there that speaks english (not easy in miami.....dba little cuba.... :-)...). Hope this helps! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 14:19:30 -0800 From: LMetz Subject: Re: Web site for braveheart includes costume info. For those of you who have seen this wonderful movie, I have a question regarding the costumes. I was wondering how I might go about making one of the costumes that Princess Isabelle wore in that movie. I am quite fond of the clothing she wore so if anyone can guide me in the right direction, I would appreciate it. What are the dresses called and what were the other pieces of clothing she wore called? What kind of accessories did she wear? I have a book called "The History of Costume" and I might be able to find it in there, but I don't know what the clothing was called (the different pieces, etc). Lissa ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 18:04:39 -0500 (EST) From: betsyp@vnet.net Subject: Re: Filling a Berlin Woolwork Pincushion > > What did the Victorians stuff their needlepoint pincushions with? Can anybody back this up with a real citation? I have read that one of the Victorian uses for the hair they saved in hair receivers was to stuff pincushions; it seems that the natural (and Macassar) oil on the hair helps preserve the pins and needles from rust. Betsy Perry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Feb 96 15:27:41 est From: Hilary_Oak_at_SLU1@ccmaillink.stlawu.edu Subject: Re: Filling a Pincushion I don't know what is historically correct but I think coarse sawdust is probably a suitable filling. That's what is in most pincushions. It is dense and durable, and may even be what they used at the time. HO! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 16:23:22 -0500 From: LDulin@aol.com Subject: BATIK The Roman era Egyptians, sometimes known as the Copts, also did batik. There are extant examples of batik hangings ("the Veil of Antinoe") and some trim for clothing (I've seen a pair of cuffs) All the examples I have seen have been in what looks like murex purple. I have seen no multi-colored Egyptian batiks. If anyone has more information on Coptic batiks, please contact me! Leslie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 15:20:58 -0600 (CST) From: Teresa Shannon Subject: Re: cendal > What is cendal and how would you sew with it? > I came upon a reference in a late 1300's text. > Kathleen (Catriona) > > Cendal references appeal all over the place during this time period. It was one of the cheapest, commonest, and least expensive silks available, even the middle-class had it. There have been excavated samples that some people claim to be cendal or sendal, or sindal etc., but since they don't come with name tags it isn't for certain. I believe it is a plain weave silk similar to China silk in weave and weight, this is a personal desire to try to equate medieval silks with the modern availabilities and is only an opinion. Cendal was normally used for two things, linings, and banners/penons. Striped cendal is known to be referenced, but I don't think shot weaving is, have to check on cheques. China silk or a light plain weave equivalent which is not less than 7-9 momme and probably not more than 15 momme of this fine and light quality should be sewn on the machine with a needle no bigger than a 10, with an 8-9 preferred. Thread should not be silk if you are machine sewing so try for cotton mercerized or linen and if you have problems with the fabric wanting to go down the hole the needle uses, but a piece of tape over the hole so only the needle is going through a space created by it. Of course, hand-sewing with the silk fibers is preferred. Teresa ------------------------------ Date: 14 Feb 1996 09:32:05 -0800 From: "Karen Lovejoy" Subject: courduroy REGARDING courduroy I have used courduroy for all of my tourney dresses, I do Elizabethan. I have some that I've worn for 4-5 years and they still look like new. I don't wash them every time I wear them, I usually air them out and brush them w/ a clothes brush. They are sturdy and stand up well to the rigors of a camping event but I am constantly having people tell me how great they look. Just wanted to put in a good word for a maligned fabric. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 19:34:33 -0500 (EST) From: "Jim O'Connor" Subject: New York Fashion circa 1695 A brief request for assistance from the collected wisdom of the list. A friend, who does not have net access, has been asked to make up a set of clothes for an intrepreter at Richmond House on Staten Island. This would be for the character of Lay Reader of the Dutch Reform Church in the year 1695. He already has some references for the style as would be worn in New York about 30 years on from New Amsterdam. But as he phrased it; this was a relatively pacific period, which apparently results in a paucity of references. He would be interested in additional leads as to what the well dressed man about Holland might wear in the later 1600's. Even though this is for New York in the New World, the Dutch influence appears to have persisted at least through this period. He is also keen to have references or even better sources for buttons that would have been contemporary to that time and place. This is an earlier time period than he normally works in so he is treating it as a chance to learn more about it. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 00:14:08 -0500 From: Mazelle@aol.com Subject: Re: H-Costume Digest V4 #32 The block printing originally described dealt with carving a wooden block, applying ink to the block, then pressing onto the fabric. You seem to be describing batik. Two entirely different methods of fabric decoration. Mazelle Neal ------------------------------ Date: 15 Feb 96 08:57:00 GMT From: Mrs C S Yeldham Subject: English Renaissence Holbein - anything by Holbein for the 1520s and 30s (although some of the pictures are from the German colony in London). There was an exhibition of Holbein's drawings in the Queen's Collection a few years ago - you might be able to get hold of the catalogue. There were also quite a few shown at the recent Tate exhibition called 'Dynasties' - again, you might be able to get hold of the catalogue (a beautiful book with superb pictures for later 16th century). On construction, Jean Hunnisett's book is very useful - can anyone else remember the name? Corduroy - I quite like it as a fabric, and have some non-period skirts made of it. However, to the best of my knowledge it was not used in the period I'm interested in - 16th century England, so I don't use it. I must say that I find wool and velvet harder wearing. Caroline ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 12:59:52 +0000 (GMT) From: Dorothy Stein Subject: Re: batik On Tue, 13 Feb 1996, Deirdre wrote: > At 2:32 PM 2/13/96, The Espresso Pegasus! wrote: > >In line with the block printing.. what kind of history does batik have?... > >When did it start, and how often was it used?.. sources? > > Well, it's Indonesian (specifically, from Yogyakarta) for starters. > The West's contact with Indonesia started with the Dutch East India company > around 1602, so batik in western culture probably doesn't pre-date that. > For Deirdre, Ivy and all others interested in block printing and batik, let me once more reccommend: Mattiebelle Gittinger, *Master Dyers to the World: Technique and Trade in Early Indian Dyed Cotton Textiles*, Washington, DC: The Textile Museum, 1982. Since this book may be difficult to get hold of, here are some of the notes I made on it: This is the catalogue of an exhibition of Indian cotton textiles, painted, stamped and dyed, for both Indian and world markets. It was held at the Textile Museum, the Field Museum of Natural History and the Asia Society Gallery (NY). It is superb in explaing how cloth fragments are documented and decorated (block stamping, clamping, stenciling, painting, pen[kalam]-drawing and dyeing techniques. Much of the dating is done by comparing costume details with fashions and decorative motives with other examples of known date. Good bibliography and glossary. The Indian cotton handloom and dyeing industry declined in the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, but efforts have been made to revive it since independence. G has some prejudices, e.g., thinking that block stamping inhibited creativity and that veining in batik work started accidentally and was not much prized until recently. p 16: A woven sample found at Mohenjo Daro dates to 1750 BC, and shows that mordants were already in use. Mordants are metallic salts which form insoluble compounds with dyes, and bind these compounds to the cotton fibre, which otherwise is difficult to dye permanently. Mordants can be used either in the form of a bath, or painted or stamped on the fabric. In the latter use, it acts as the opposite of a resist (either wax or mud was used for this purpose) and different mordants produce different colours in the same dye bath: Iron in an acidic substance and combined with tannin produces black; alum produces pinks and reds; combined, they produce violet. Indigo gave blue and needed no mordant. A dung bath was used to bleach. Alizarin was got from madder and chay, and produced red. The mordant was the secret that made brightly coloured Indian cottons washable. (Silk and wool take to dyeing more easily than cotton and linen; hence China and Japan were not as eager for Indian dye secrets ad Europeans.) p 31 Outside of Mohenjo Daro (which dates back to 1500 BC), the earliest Indian cottons surviving are those from Egypt, particularly Fostat (near Cairo, 11th (?) through 18th centuries). The earlier ones were modest trade goods; the acme of Indian cotton production was in the 18th century. Indians were willing to adapt their designs to all kinds of markets: Western, Far Eastern, domestic, but especially South East Asian. (Some of the illustrations are startling, showing that many textiles which are normally thought of as SE Asian actually came from India, and fabrics thought of as part of the 'traditional' Dutch costume were also Indian imports. There is reason to believe that batik, too, originated in India. The textiles in this exhibition are almost all plain-weave, handspun and handloom cottons. There is also discussion of ikat and tie-dye techniques. Nowadays, the traditional production of Indian hand dyed cottons is concentrated in Gujarat, around Deesa; Patan is the only village that still produced patolas (double ikat, usually silk). Other places that do double ikat in cotton, such as in Andra, produce simpler designs. p 137: The first Dutch ships arrived in NW Java in 1596, where there was already a brisk trade in progress, including Arab, Indian, Portugese, Chinese and Japanese traders. The Indian traders were from Bengal, the Coromandel coast and Gujarat. Indian textiles had become the dominant currency of exchange in the spice trade, so Europeans had to get textiles in India to enter the spice trade. Their own woolens were not in demand in the tropics (but Italian silks and velvets were traded to India before the 17th century). Both the Dutch and English East India companies were founded in 1602. The English lost out in the spice trade, but gradually got the upper hand in textiles from western India. p 175: Portugese initiated the sea route from Europe to India in 1498 (100 years before the Dutch and English got there). They carried the cheapest textiles (Guinea cloths) to the west coast of Africa where some was exchanged for slaves and the rest carried to Brazil along with the slaves and to clothe them. To Portugal, the traders carried only quilts. Gujarati merchants were already trading to western ports such as Aden, Mocha and Jedda (on the Red Sea), Muscat and Gombroon on the Persian Gulf. The Dutch and English brought the cloths to Europe. In Holland, as in Indonesia, the dyed cloths were so popular they became part of the national costume, and their origins were often forgotten. At first Indian cloth was mainly for furnishings: esp. bedcovers, hangings, curtains, etc., where they were often ordered in matched sets. Then they got accepted as clothing (latter part of 17th cent). This produced a demand for the finer textiles. p 190: Prohibition on cotton import (which conflicted with native wool and silk industries) enacted in France in 1686, in England in 1700. In 1720, the English banned the use of chintz in clothes and household furnishings, but because the English also ran a reexport business, the law was evaded and ignored. The Dutch VOC was so powerful there were no such laws enacted there. ------------------------------ Date: 15 Feb 96 05:43:31 EST From: Michael Percival <101610.1063@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: H-Costume Digest V4 #34 Re. Cendal: According to my copy of Encyclopedia of World Fashion by Doreen Yarwood (which I have found a excellent text for information such as this) Cendal (or Sendal) is/was a type of silk which she describes as "a sheer rich silk used in the Middle Ages" (p.372) Re. Jeannie Lugo query on English court clothing of the Renaissance period I would suggest the following text: Costume and Fashion Volume III The Tudors: Book 1 by Herbert Norris. Publisher J.M. Dent and Sons 1938. Your main problem with it is that it might be hard to track down a copy of it. As far as I am aware it is out of print over here in England and I was lucky to find my copy in a second hand book shop. Best of luck with the research. Maggie Percival ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 18:05:48 -0500 From: webalder@niagara.com (David Webb & Sheridan Alder) Subject: Thanks for advice on sewing sheer silk Many, many thanks for everyone's kind advice on sewing that sheer silk. I received too many messages to respond individually. Unfortunately "Touch of Gold" interfacing doesn't appear to be available in Canada yet, although I'm tempted to make a run over the border and call fabric store in Toronto. OK -so it's cheating - as long as it looks right!) I' going to try as many of your suggestions (all at once) and let you know what happened. If people are interested, I could post a compilation of the suggestions. Still measuring and fiddling, Sheridan webalder@niagara.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 18:05:46 -0500 From: webalder@niagara.com (David Webb & Sheridan Alder) Subject: re: filling pin cushions I've checked my library on filling pin cushions and came up with the following: Zalkin's handbook of thimbles and sewing implement / Estelle Zalkin 1988. p. 147 - bran, sawdust or wool (snipped into small pieces to make a smooth, not lumpy cushion) Needlework tools / Eleanor Johnson. Shire, 1978 p. 17 - bran, left-over fabric, sheep's wool Old-time tools and toys of needlework / Gertrude Whiting. Dover, 1971 p. 153, p. 156 - ends of wool p. 157 - child's hair (sentimental rather than practical reasons) Illustrated history of needlework tools / Gay Ann Rogers. Needlework Unlimited, 1983. p. 146 -down, wool, bran, sometimes sawdust. Apparently one author even recommended a top layer of sachet powder, concealed in a sheet of cotton, separated from the other filling. How Victorian! Sheridan Alder webalder@niagara.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 15:55:52 CST From: "Perry Lewis" Subject: costume patterns For an English literature project, my daughter is going to try and make a dress typical of the kind worn by the nobility during the time of Queen Elizabeth. I would appreciate any help concerning what patterns are available for purchase today to help in making such a dress. Any other information would also be appreciated. Thanks Perry Lewis Alma, AR email address: plewis@alma.k12.ar.us ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 21:31:52 -0500 (EST) From: BARBARASHU@delphi.com Subject: Fashion and Fetishism I would like to buy this book by David Kunzle which is now out of print. Does anyone have a copy they would be willing to sell? Thanks, Barbara barbarashu@delphi.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 20:41:18 -0500 From: M311@aol.com Subject: Amish clothes Does anyone know where I can get patterns for Amish clothing, especially mens pants? If you do please write me at m311@aol.com Thanks, Kelly Albrecht ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 20:37:56 -0500 From: M311@aol.com Subject: Lace I have some old lace. I want to try and find out what time period it is from. I want to make sure I use it on something that fits the time it would have been made. Does anyone know of books or sources on it? Kelly Albrecht ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 20:38:07 -0500 From: M311@aol.com Subject: Re: filling pin cushions In a message dated 96-02-15 18:15:19 EST, you write: > p. 157 - child's hair (sentimental rather than practical reasons) > > My mother-in-law has an old hair holder, from her mother. The idea was to put all hair cleaned out of your hairbrush in this. When you had enough you made a pin cushion and filled it with this. The reasoning was the oil from the hair kept the needles from rusting. Anothing they did with hair was make pictures with it. A historical house here has an original hair picture hanging in it. They couldn't find any books on how this was done. Does anyone know of any? Kelly Albrecht ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 22:29:20 -0700 From: savaskan@electriciti.com (Julie Adams) Subject: Re: metallic trim? Try Carl Ontis at Boomtown Mercantile, Vallejo, CA (707) 557-2552 He has a big stash of antique military bullion that he does offer for sale by the yard ...And other cool 19th century clothing items. Julie Adams ------------------------------ End of H-Costume Digest V4 #35 ****************************** A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, send the command lines: unsubscribe h-costume-digest subscribe h-costume end in the body of a message to majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com. Thanks and enjoy the list!