From: owner-h-costume-digest (H-Costume Digest) To: h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Subject: H-Costume Digest V4 #39 Reply-To: h-costume Sender: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Errors-To: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk H-Costume Digest Tuesday, February 20 1996 Volume 4, Number 39 Compilation copyright (C) 1995 Diane Barlow Close and Gretchen Miller Use in whole prohibited. Individual articles are the property of the author. Seek permission from that author before reprinting or quoting elsewhere. Important Addresses: Send submissions to: h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com (or reply to this message). Adds/drops/archives: majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com Real, live person: h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Topics: Mens 1890-1900 suits Cleaning Fur Re:The Waltz Re: Out of print costume books Re: Lace Bibliography of books on Elizabethan costuming Fwd: Re: Women's Suffrage Movement Clothes, etc, medieval costume Skirt placket and fastening Help needed identifying painting Re: The Waltz Re: software demos Any other mid-Victorians Re: Lace, Hair and The old Accuracy Hassles ATHE ONLINE: Costume history query Cigarette holders Re: software demos Re: Skirt placket and fastening ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 13:48:41 -0800 (PST) From: Julie Dickson Subject: Mens 1890-1900 suits Warning! This post is about Illusion not authenticity I would like to transform some men's 3 button suits into suitable costumes to be used in period musicals such as *Dolly* *Music Man* Has anyone done this? Is it, not worth the effort, or not effective? better to start from the beginning? We have a limited budget and this is a musical ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 18:55:01 -0500 From: NeaDods@aol.com Subject: Cleaning Fur I am restoring an antique fur coat, and there are some spots where the fur is clumped and stiff - odds are good a cat was licking it. Any ideas on how to clean the fur? Nea ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 19:31:53 -0500 From: Gaelscot@aol.com Subject: Re:The Waltz In answer to Gillian Richards's quiery, yes, the waltz was considered shocking when introduced to England, but that was long before the 1880s. The waltz as we know it was going strong in England by the 1830s but not, as you surmised, in the 1790s! Couple dances of the late 18th century did not include taking partners in arms, although partners did hold hands in some dances. (In the minuet, contrary to Hollywood depictions -- which are actually based on Victorian reconstructions -- the couple did not touch at all.) The country dances and quadrilles of the Regency period were vigorous and intricate, but like the square dances that descended from them, they also did not include taking partners in arms. If you ever have a chance to dance those dances in a ballroom, you will appreciate how shocking the waltz was. It wasn't just that the man put an arm around the woman's waist -- he held her close up against him! And gazed into her eyes! And whirled her around! And as if the waltz wasn't bad enough--the POLKA was even more lascivious! Men and women exhausted themselves keeping up to it and ended up panting in each other's arms. (If visions of "Your Polka Party" keep you from picturing this, you might want to know that both the waltz and the polka have changed dramatically over their histories.) The history of social dance and clothing is so intertwined that, IMHO, they ought to be studied together, at least a little. Almost all historic dances that we know were extremely vigorous, belying notions that ANY past fashions, at least in the West, were so restrictive that the wearers could not move. The type of clothing worn influenced the steps of popular dances, and the changing demands of popular dances also influenced fashion. Just one example - -- in the Teens of this century Irene Castle, of Castle Walk fame, helped popularize many risque fashions such as going without a corset and wearing a wide skirt of pleated sheer fabric under a "tulip" shaped, apparently narrow overskirt. Oh well, I'm off my soapbox. The hero and herione of that historical novel should be dancing a fast minuet at opposite ends of the room, admiring each other's dexterity and precision, making graceful but suggestive gestures as they turn toward and away from each other, moving forward and backward in a symbolic chase, and gazing smolderingly into each other's eyes. Gail Finke/gaelscot@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Feb 96 19:42:48 -0500 From: "Augusta, Karen" Subject: Re: Out of print costume books - -- [ From: Augusta, Karen * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- - -------- REPLY, Original message follows -------- Subject: Out of print costume books In a recent posting a list member was trying to track down an out of fashion book. Does any one have names and addresses to share of book sellers who specialize in costume, fashion, textile books. I had heard of a company called Wooden Porch Books who specialized in out of print items, but can no longer find their address. Stone - -------- REPLY, End of original message -------- Three out of print book services that specialize in fashion that I have ordered from recently are: 1. Wooden Porch Books Rte. 1, Box 262 Middlebourne, WV. 26149 ph 304-386-4434 fax 304-386-4868 2. J.M. Cohen, Rare Books 2 Karin Ct. New Palyz, N.Y. 12561 914-883-9720 fax 914-883-9142 3. Starosciak Books artbooks@netcom.com they have a web-page (I no longer have their address), if you e-mail them at above address and request costum03.txt they will e-mail their costume booklist to you. Hope this helps. Karen Augusta ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Feb 96 19:42:57 -0500 From: "Augusta, Karen" Subject: Re: Lace - -- [ From: Augusta, Karen * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- - -------- REPLY, Original message follows -------- Subject: Lace I have some old lace. I want to try and find out what time period it is from. I want to make sure I use it on something that fits the time it would have been made. Does anyone know of books or sources on it? Kelly Albrecht I have an extensive library on lace books (I am a dealer of antique lace and fashion) and over the years I have found two books to be most helpful. They are: _THE IDENTIFICATION OF LACE_ by Pat Earnshaw, Shire Publications (Brittish book, so it may be a little hard to get, but well worth the trouble). paper, under $20. _THE SECRETS OF REAL LACE_ by Elizabeth Kurella, available from Ms. Kurella if you write or call her at P.O. box 222, Plainwell, MI. 49080 - ph# 616-685 - -9792. This large paperback is about $15. and gives the clearest descriptions (and photos) of how to identify handmade vs. machine made lace. Good luck! Karen Augusta ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 20:34:36 -0500 (EST) From: Drea Leed Subject: Bibliography of books on Elizabethan costuming Everyone, I'm planning to put together a list of resources specifically for elizabethan costuming and add it to the corset web page. So far I've got Janet Arnold's Patterns of Fashion, Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd, Lost from Her Majestie's Back, that Winter and someone book on Elizabethan Costuming, and The History of Underclothes. Are there any other books out there on elizabethan costuming, or general costume reference books that do a particularly good job on this time period? Thanks a lot, Drea ******************************************* We've secretly replaced their dilithium crystals with new Folger's Crystals. Now let's watch them go to warp. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 20:18:02 -0800 From: gwjchris@ix.netcom.com (Bill and Glenna Christen ) Subject: Fwd: Re: Women's Suffrage Movement Clothes, etc, I don't remember who requested info on this topic so I have to send it to the list. Sorry... I hope it's useful after all this time. Glenna Jo Christen LHS, LSFS, MSAS & HSP gwjchris@ix.netcom.com Forwarded Message: In answer to the suffragist outfit: I am not an expert on the matter, but the type of dress would really depend on the time frame as suffrage was an issue from the 1840'2 right up to 1920. When on march, the suffragists wore white and their sashes were generally purple. The photo I have of 1912 show the banners as triangular much like the "Go State!" type of banners. The women in the photo have them affixed (pinned?) to their right shoulder with the long narrow end pinned close to their left hip. I will give Lynn Anderson a call. She is the woman who had many original clothing peices at the Fraser fashion show and her favorite time period 1890's which we often assiciate with suffragists. Yvonne ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Feb 96 13:03:00 CET From: Van Opstal Walter Subject: medieval costume Greetings, I'm new on this list. Just to put things in perspective: I'm a member of a 13th century re-enactment society based in Belgium (that's Europe). I have read with great interest the article on finishing the seams of a pair of hosen. Would anyone be able to provide me with a suitable pattern for such a pair of hosen? I know it is to be cut on the cross of the fabric and I have some illustrations of the finished thing. I'd appreciate any suggestions on how to cut the fabric. I would also enourmously appreciate any tips on books and other printed material for making 13th to 14th century garments. I am not that skillful in pattern design, so any sources of ready-to-use information would be most welcome. Thanks. Walter. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 23:14:56 -0800 From: Joan Broneske Subject: Skirt placket and fastening I am making a skirt to go over a hoop, and I am pleating it to a = waistband. What is the best way to handle the closure in the back. I = don't want to use a zipper, of course, and would like to use some sort = of hook and eye/trouser fastener on it. How do I prevent it from = gaping, etc., etc.,? Thanks, Joan Broneske unicorn@calweb.com http://www.calweb.com/~unicorn/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 22:31:32 -0500 (EST) From: Tina Carney Subject: Help needed identifying painting If anyone has the Historical Encyclopedia of Costumes by Racine and can identify the origianl paiting of the dress on page 171 left, I would very much appreciate it. I believe the top of the dress should really have alternating bands of silver and gold horizontally instead of the solid silver pictured. - Tina ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 21:06:03 -0500 From: zorro@netdepot.com (David Marcus & Peggy Lamberson) Subject: Re: The Waltz In email on Mon, 19 Feb 1996 19:31:53 -0500, Gaelscot@aol.com wrote: | In answer to Gillian Richards's quiery, yes, the waltz was considered | shocking when introduced to England, but that was long before the 1880s. The | waltz as we know it was going strong in England by the 1830s but not, as you | surmised, in the 1790s! Couple dances of the late 18th century did not | include taking partners in arms, although partners did hold hands in some | dances. (In the minuet, contrary to Hollywood depictions -- which are | actually based on Victorian reconstructions -- the couple did not touch at | all.) | | Gail Finke/gaelscot@aol.com Whoa! I agree with you except on that last comment. Dancers most certainly did take hands during the minuet. The three main sections of the menuet are: Presentation of Right Hands, Presentation of Left Hands, and Presentation of Both Hands. If you cut those out, all you've got left are the introduction and the Honours (bows). Your comment about linking the study of costume and dancing is exciting and thought-provoking. I perform and teach Renaissance and Baroque dance (in fact, that's the reason I'm interested in this mailing list), and both of these types of dancing were _profoundly_ affected by clothing. For example, one thing Hollywood definitely gets wrong about the Minuet, is all the bowing and curtseying with arm gestures where the elbow gets higher than the shoulder. This wouldn't have been possible, given how tightly fitted the sleeves were to the body of the dress/coat. This was incorporated into the dance technique, where one never correctly lifts the elbow that high (except in some theatrical dances later in the period, which would have had costumes made to allow for this). Also, again influenced by the restrictive tailoring in the upper body, the arms were normally held with the elbows slightly forward of of the body, unlike modern ballet arms, where the upper arm is more directly out to the side. Not to mention the effects of dancing in boned corsets... Peggy Lamberson ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 09:24:37 -0800 (PST) From: close (Diane Barlow Close) Subject: Re: software demos Deb wrote: > One of the SEWING news groups had some conversation > saying the Fittingly Sew is now out of business. That doesn't sound likely, given that they're still advertising regularly in Sew News and Threads. However, a call to their 800 number (800-661-5209) would clear up the question quickly. They are a Canadian company, so perhaps the person in question just had trouble reaching them. Their direct number is 1-613-829-6488. Their demo disk is free. - -- Diane Close I'm at lunch all day. :-) If a Canadian Had Said It First (The Globe & Mail): "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance plus GST." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 14:55:34 -0500 From: LuAnnMason@aol.com Subject: Any other mid-Victorians Are there any other mid-Victorian costumers out there? I'm feeling a bit lost on the board! :) I just thought I'd see if there were any other "lurkers" like me out there.... LuAnn ------------------------------ Date: Mon Feb 19 16:56:48 CST 1996 From: gstoc187@student2.uwsp.edu Subject: Re: Lace, Hair and The old Accuracy Hassles As a matter of fact, the waltz was considered shocking when it was first introduced. Men were told to wear gloves so that their hand would not be in direct contact with the woman's back. If they didn't have gloves, they were told to at least use a handkerchief. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 12:48:11 -0500 From: afn25136@afn.org (Katherine L. Rodman) Subject: ATHE ONLINE: Costume history query Hello: I just had this forwarded to me by another list. As I am in the middle of my comps I do not have time to pursue this. Anyone want to pick it up. Any help would be appreciated. You can e-mail me privately if you would like. Thank you, Kat > >From: James Thomas, INTERNET:jthomas@CMS.CC.WAYNE.EDU >TO: Multiple recipients of list ATHENEWS, INTERNET:ATHENEWS@CMS.CC.WAYNE.EDU >DATE: 2/16/96 4:10 PM > >RE: ATHE ONLINE: Costume history query > >From: "Joan St.Germain" >Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 10:28:23 -0600 (CST) >To: ATHENEWS@CMS.CC.WAYNE.EDU >Subject: Costume history query > >Does anyone know of any current research or resources on British and/or >European sumptuary laws as pertaining to costume history? >Our most current text is copyrighted 1928. We need responses ASAP! Please >e-mail to thjoa@ttacs1.ttu.edu. >Thank you. > > Kat Katherine L. Rodman afn25136@afn.org Gainesville, FL "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused." ------------------------------ Date: 20 Feb 96 13:10:45 EST From: "1Lt Derrick Stamos" Subject: Cigarette holders Hi all, I have a few questions about the use of cigarette holders by women from the 20's through the 50's. From old movies and paging in old fashion mags, Vogue, Mademoiselle, etc, that were out when smoking was much more popular and fashionable I've seen many instances of ladies using holders. Were there any rules or conventions that went with smoking with them? Is their any relationship between length, material, decoration, color, and such with particular styles of dress and time periods, perhaps like how gloves of different lengths were worn at different hours? A grandmother of mine hinted at such "rules" but wasn't able to elaborate. If anyone out there currently using cigarette holders or who knows about them could fill me in I'd appreciate it. Any info, factual or anecdotal or any resource that you could suggest would be most helpful! I personally find cigarette holders yet another one of those charming but disappearing reminders of a more glamourous era. Thanks a lot! - -Derrick ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 12:56:27 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Findlay Subject: Re: software demos I called the numbers and they are out of buisness. Best Wishes Robin ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Walter Robin Findlay Phone: 816-271-4452 Associate Professor of Theatre E-mail:findlay@griffon.mwsc.edu Missouri Western State College Fax: 816-232-0978 4525 Downs Drive Voice Mail: 816-387-3117 St. Joseph, Mo. 64507 is that all there is........ peggy lee - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Tue, 20 Feb 1996, Diane Barlow Close wrote: > Deb wrote: > > One of the SEWING news groups had some conversation > > saying the Fittingly Sew is now out of business. > > That doesn't sound likely, given that they're still advertising regularly > in Sew News and Threads. However, a call to their 800 number > (800-661-5209) would clear up the question quickly. They are a Canadian > company, so perhaps the person in question just had trouble reaching them. > Their direct number is 1-613-829-6488. Their demo disk is free. > -- > Diane Close > I'm at lunch all day. :-) > If a Canadian Had Said It First (The Globe & Mail): > "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance plus GST." > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 13:41:57 -0500 From: zorro@netdepot.com (David Marcus & Peggy Lamberson) Subject: Re: Skirt placket and fastening In email on Mon, 19 Feb 1996 23:14:56 -0800, Joan Broneske wrote: | I am making a skirt to go over a hoop, and I am pleating it to a = | waistband. What is the best way to handle the closure in the back. I = | don't want to use a zipper, of course, and would like to use some sort = | of hook and eye/trouser fastener on it. How do I prevent it from = | gaping, etc., etc.,? | | Thanks, | | Joan Broneske | unicorn@calweb.com | http://www.calweb.com/~unicorn/index.html | I have several skirts made by a professional costumer to go over either a bum roll or panniers. She used very large heavy duty snaps, which are strong and reliable but allow for quick costume changes. I don't know where she got them, they are bigger than any I've seen in normal fabric stores. Perhaps someone could suggest a source? Peggy ------------------------------ End of H-Costume Digest V4 #39 ****************************** A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, send the command lines: unsubscribe h-costume-digest subscribe h-costume end in the body of a message to majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com. Thanks and enjoy the list!