From: owner-h-costume-digest (H-Costume Digest) To: h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Subject: H-Costume Digest V4 #45 Reply-To: h-costume Sender: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Errors-To: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk H-Costume Digest Tuesday, February 27 1996 Volume 4, Number 45 Compilation copyright (C) 1995 Diane Barlow Close and Gretchen Miller Use in whole prohibited. Individual articles are the property of the author. Seek permission from that author before reprinting or quoting elsewhere. Important Addresses: Send submissions to: h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com (or reply to this message). Adds/drops/archives: majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com Real, live person: h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Topics: Re: Weddings Re: Arabian Nights Re: your mail Re: your mail Dress damages costumes Re: Coat finishing/fulling Tartan Re: H-Costume Digest V4 #44: Books Re: Arabian Nights and Mongols Re: Tartan Kohler Re: H-Costume Digest V4 #44 Re: tartan - scots ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 22:43:50 -0800 From: fishcat@hooked.net (Trystan L. Bass) Subject: Re: Weddings Jen Keener wrote: >I was wondering if anyone can help me with wedding costumes. I am haveing a >renaissance themed wedding at the local renaissance faire and am looking for >ideas on what to wear, accessories, etc.. i've looked around on the web and >found 1 main site & 2 pictures. If anyone has any more leads, internet or >otherwise, please let me know. All help is greatly appreciated. If you haven't found it already, check out the Medieval/Ren. Wedding FAQ on the web at http://paul.spu.edu/~kst/bib/bib.html and it is cross-posted to the alt.weddings and soc.couples.weddings newsgroups too. This FAQ has *lots* of info. on planning this type of wedding, but, alas, no pictures. For that, check out any of the books mentioned in the FAQ, including the user-friendly Ren. Faire costume book, _Elizabethan Costuming_ by Winter & Savoy. The FAQ also has a long list of popular movies that show this time period -- not all the movies are "historically accurate," but, hey, it's a wedding, not a juried competition! Wear what you like! Good luck! - --Trystan @->->-- Trystan L. Bass --<-<-@ Toreador Web Mistress http://www.hooked.net/users/fishcat/ fishcat@hooked.net, trystan@livewire.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 23:06:26 +0000 From: "Leslie Helms" Subject: Re: Arabian Nights Regarding finding costuming info for the Middle East-- you're right that printed documentation is not plentiful. If you have a little time, you'll find the greatest amount of info is held by the amateur and semi-pro bellydancers. Contact teachers of Middle Eastern dance at community colleges or centers. They and their more advanced students will have many out-of-print books, pictures taken on MidEast tours, sketches made in workshops, etc. The "transitional" costuming style uses traditional/authentic base notes and adds fantasy touches. It sounds like what you need. If you can locate a belly dance festival you'll see TONS of costumes and imported items both worn and for sale. I speak from experience as a ME dancer, but I'm at the wrong end of the country to help out! Leslie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 07:38:58 -0600 (CST) From: "Maria A. Sanders" Subject: Re: your mail On Mon, 26 Feb 1996, John Lambert wrote: > Battle of N.O. & U.S. Civil War > > > We are still in search of patterns and/or clothing and accessories plus > religious items for the living history impressions of a Louisiana Roman > Catholic Priest during the Battle of New Orleans era plus a Louisiana > priest in the U.S. Civil War era. I am also assisting the person > researching a companion Louisiana-based Roman Catholic Nun for the same > eras. Anything which would support or help with this project would be > appreciated. > > Thanks, > John Lambert > tiger1@accesscom.net John, Call the New Orleans directory and request numbers for the Cabala (a museum), and St. Louis Cathedral giftshop they may be able to help. There is also a cloister of Ursula nuns that was in operation during that time period, however if it is still in operation now I don't know but someone I'm sure can help. There is also a bookstore named (I think) Garden District Books (Bookshoppe, something like that) and when I was there they had a whole section on Louisana history. Hope this helps! Maria \\\|/// (O O) - -----------------------------oooO---U---Oooo---------------------------------- MARIA SANDERS LIBRARY ACQUISITIONS EMAIL: MARIAS@COMP PHONE: (501) 575-4657 OR FAX: (501) 575-6656 MARIAS@SATURN \\\|/// (O O) U O .........thanks.... - ----------------------------oooO-------Oooo----------------------------------- > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 08:29:11 -0600 From: "William B. Birner" Subject: Re: your mail >Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 08:27:09 -0600 >To: "Maria A. Sanders" >From: "William B. Birner" >Subject: Re: your mail > >At 07:38 AM 2/27/96 -0600, you wrote: >>On Mon, 26 Feb 1996, John Lambert wrote: > >Close, Maria, but no cigar :-) > >The Louisiana State Museum buildings in either side of the St. Louis Cathedral in the old French Quarter >are The Cabildo and the Presbytere. The Pontalba buildings are the very old apartments on either long side of Jackson Square. I would suggest that John look up La. State Museum's number in New Orleans. > >> >>> Battle of N.O. & U.S. Civil War >>> >>> >>> We are still in search of patterns and/or clothing and accessories plus >>> religious items for the living history impressions of a Louisiana Roman >>> Catholic Priest during the Battle of New Orleans era plus a Louisiana >>> priest in the U.S. Civil War era. >> >>Call the New Orleans directory and request numbers for the Cabala (a >>museum), and St. Louis Cathedral giftshop they may be able to help. >>There is also a cloister of Ursula nuns that was in operation during that >>time period, however if it is still in operation now I don't know but >>someone I'm sure can help. There is also a bookstore named (I think) >>Garden District Books (Bookshoppe, something like that) and when I was there >>they had a whole section on Louisana history. >> >>Hope this helps! >>Maria > Ciao, Bill - ------------- wbbirner@ix.netcom.com (William B. Birner) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 07:19:41 -0800 From: gwjchris@ix.netcom.com (Bill and Glenna Christen ) Subject: Dress damages You wrote: >I agree with Sheridan, that during the Regency people must have had their >trains stepped on and suffered other clothing mishaps. Most people in any >period know how to manage their clothes but accidents happen anyway. Wilke Collins wrote a wonderful piece in the early 1860's (or was it the late '50's? it was the era of the hoop anyway!) A man is describing how his wife and daughters had all dressed in their finery to attend a house party, the small articles of furniture that were knocked about and the states of disaster in which they returned home. Their dresses were in shreds! Of course this was exaggerated for the sake of humour, but having attended a dancing party at Historic Hannah House, an 1860's house in Southern Indianapolis, I know how easily dresses could be torn under those conditions. No disasters to report, but dresses were stepped on while ladies sat, and this is in an era without trains! Just my 2 cents worth! Glenna Jo Christen LHS, LSFS, MSAS & HSP gwjchris@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Feb 96 10:22:47 est From: Hilary_Oak_at_SLU1@ccmaillink.stlawu.edu Subject: costumes Hi Listfolk, I am forwarding the following message from another list I am on for any of you who might be looking for a job in academic costuming. (These sorts of positions usually come with good pay, nice facilities and, imagine this, retirement and health benefits!) All that and you get to play, uh, I mean work, with fabric and spend someone else's money on it! - HO! >San Francisco State has been advertising a costume postion. >Find them at http://www.yahoo.com/Arts/Drama/ >good luck! Received: by ccmail from platinum.zinc.com From Stagecraft-request@platinum.zinc.com X-Envelope-From: Stagecraft-request@platinum.zinc.com Received: (from daemon@localhost) by platinum.zinc.com (8.7.1/8.7.1) id RAA17795 for Stagecraft-mail; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 17:12:23 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 17:12:23 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199602270012.RAA17795@platinum.zinc.com> From: Stagecraft@zinc.com (Stagecraft mailing list) To: Stagecraft-outgoing@platinum.zinc.com (Stagecraft) Errors-To: Owner-Stagecraft@zinc.com Subject: costumes Precedence: Bulk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 13:53:05 -0500 From: Kevin Richard-Morrow Subject: Re: Coat finishing/fulling At 12:00 PM 2/26/96 -0800, you wrote: > > Could a denser modern wool be acheived by fulling? >A friend of mine throws her wools in the bathtub or washer >to produce a denser, softer fabric. I don't know if the >finish would be smooth enough for mens coats later though, >does anyone know if period wools might have been shaved or >smoothed after fulling? > > Alison > > When working with wool for 18th century clothing my wife and I run the material through a HOT wash (the hotter the better) in a large laudromat washer. If we start with good quality tight woven wool it comes out nicely fulled and can be sewn on the raw edge without too much ravelling. It works fine for coats. Use caution if attempting this in a home machine. We have "killed" the clutch in ours. Others have reported it has worked fine. In the 18th century the nap on the surface of the fulled wool was often combed up and trimmed to give a felt like surface. The Rev War mail list (revwar@unh.edu) produced a thread on correct period fulling not too long ago. I have saved the posts and could forward the "juicer" ones if anyone would like. Kevin Richard-Morrow ------------------------------ Date: 27 Feb 1996 11:16:07 -0800 From: "Carole Newson-Smith" Subject: Tartan 2/27/96 10:56 AM Tartan Don, From all I have been able to learn, the modern tartans were not associated with specific clans until much, much later than the 1500's. I saw (and loved) Braveheart too, but the "period" looking guys were not the English. If you are planning to use the fabric within the SCA, nobody will hassle you. Other groups I don't know as well and cannot comment. How to wear it: Take the 7 to 9 yards of fabric and spread it out flat - yes, this takes a lot of space. I've seen it done in parking lots. Get on your knees and start pleating it, leaving about a foot or so unpleated at one end. At the other end, leave about a yard and a half unpleated. Now slide your belt under the fabric, starting at one end. Lie down on your back, fold the fabric over your body, throwing the larger part of unpleated material over your shoulder, and buckle your belt. Stand up, straighten yourself out, and pin the long part of the fabric to your shirt somewhere near the top of your shoulder. Your shirt should be long (and full) enough to cover your backside, while you are on your knees pleating. Good luck Carole ------------------------------ Date: 27 Feb 96 05:09:20 EST From: Michael Percival <101610.1063@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: H-Costume Digest V4 #44: Books Hello Walter, I'm almost certain I can help you out on this one: "Koehler" is almost certainly "Kohler". The book title is probably "A History of costume" by C. Kohler and E. Von Sichart: Publ: Harrap 1928 (reprinted by Dover in 1963 as a paperback) Jean D'Are is probably "Jeanne d'Arc, ses Costumes, son Armure" by A. Harmand: Publ (I think): Librairie Ernest Leroux 1929. I've never seen a copy of this one (although I've heard of it it) so if anyone out there can tell me what it's like I'd be interested to know. Maggie Percival ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 14:57:02 -0500 From: PBDS@aol.com Subject: Re: Arabian Nights and Mongols I have found the following to be a good resorce for costume inspiration from many diverse cultures; Costume Patterns and Designs by Max Tilke, 1990 Rizzoli Pub. New York ISBN 0-8478-1209-X ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 20:14:30 +0000 (GMT) From: "J.F.Scott" Subject: Re: Tartan On 27 Feb 1996, Carole Newson-Smith wrote: > 2/27/96 10:56 AM > Tartan > > Don, > > >From all I have been able to learn, the modern tartans were not associated > with > specific clans until much, much later than the 1500's. The tartans being assigned to certain clans is pretty much a fabrication dreamt up in the 1800s by a couple of scottish/polish tricksters who claimed to have found an ancient manuscript which described each clans tartans. Strangely enough, they never let anyone see a copy of this wonderous tome. Still, that means that the tartans have a heritage of somewhere in the region of 150-200 years, which is not bad. Before then, the tartan was worn, but you were likely to wear whatever pattern your local weaver could manage, and the colours would depend on what dyes were available at the time and place. So regional patterns and colours were possible, but not individual clan ones. Oh, and there is a painting of the defeat of the scots at Culloden which has (I'm told, because I haven't seen it) Highlanders wearing a multitude of different tartans. The painting was made soon after the battle and used captured prisoners as models. > I saw (and loved) Braveheart too, but the "period" looking guys were not > the English. If you are planning to use the fabric within the SCA, > nobody will hassle you. Other groups I don't > know as well > and cannot comment. Braveheart was somewhat romantic when it came to costuming (and history, but that is another gripe). It is certainly possible that tartan cloth (ie a large check pattern) existed at the time - there are references to the Irish wearing "checked cloth" from way before the 1300s. However, there is no evidence for the wearing of the kilt from before 1500 > How to wear it: > Take the 7 to 9 yards of fabric and spread it out flat - yes, this takes a > lot of space. > I've seen it done in parking lots. If I may interject - lay your belt down first, and put the material on top of it. This will save you disturbing your pleats as much when you want to belt the plaid. > > Your shirt should be long (and full) enough to cover your backside, while you > are > on your knees pleating. Once the kilt is belted around you, experiment with how to deal with the excess material that isn't covering your thighs. I tend to tuck one flap of the material into my belt, to form a pocket, and use the other half to go over the shoulder, but it is the sort of thing that is impossible to explain well. You'll find out just as much by experimenting. Have fun, John John F.Scott Networked Information Services Advisor j.f.scott@bton.ac.uk University of Brighton, England The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously. -- Hubert Humphrey ------------------------------ Date: 27 Feb 1996 12:15:09 -0800 From: "Carole Newson-Smith" Subject: Kohler 2/27/96 12:18 PM Kohler Kohler is the author, Dover is the publisher, and if the book was at work, I could give you the exact title. It was in print last autumn. Carole Newson-Smith ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 13:02:05 -0800 From: Susan Fatemi Subject: Re: H-Costume Digest V4 #44 I must have missed the original posting about early Mongol clothes, but there was an exhiibition at the L.A. Natural History Museum on archeological finds from the Mongol Empire. I did not see the exhibit but the book is available (about $50). I can't remember the exact title, but it's something like Empires beyond the Wall (or Great Wall) something Chinggis Khan, etc. I will look up the exact title. I borrowed it on ILL, so don't have it myself. there were at least 2 garments in the collection -- they were not burials, but a cache (I think). The main garment was probably knee length, with very long sleeves made from a Persian style garment (but probably Uiger) i.e. it looks Middle Eastern more than chinese. the tunic had wrap-over front, high collar, rather full skirt, and the midriff was pleated horizontally like a cummerbund. It had several self ties running from under the arm to below the waist. It wrapped right over left, of course. [that should be Persian-style *brocade* -- I can't back up, sorry] Hope that is of some interest to whoever wanted it. Susan Fatemi susanf@eerc.berkeley.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 16:15:57 -0500 From: PierresRJW@aol.com Subject: Re: tartan - scots Being of Scottish birth myself I have learned a little about this over the years. One of the best sources for scottish historic information is from groups that do just that. St. Andrews society is one nationwide. There are ussualy Scottish games around the country on a regular basis. At these events there a thousands of "experts". To be fair there are many different ways that scottish garb was worn over the years just as it is worn in many different ways still today. You should look for a "British" store in your area (phone book). They will know of the local pipe bands, dance groups, historical societies, etc. If you are local to Philadelphia I can help you on this. However there are groups all acropss the country that will have the books and pictures on hand for you to see in person. Good luck ...it's a fun process...it led to me wearing my own Clan kilt and a more thourough understanding of my heritage. Rich Williamson Gunn Clan "Aut Pax Aut Bellum" ------------------------------ End of H-Costume Digest V4 #45 ****************************** A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, send the command lines: unsubscribe h-costume-digest subscribe h-costume end in the body of a message to majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com. Thanks and enjoy the list!