From: owner-h-costume-digest (H-Costume Digest) To: h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Subject: H-Costume Digest V4 #48 Reply-To: h-costume Sender: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Errors-To: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk H-Costume Digest Thursday, February 29 1996 Volume 4, Number 48 Compilation copyright (C) 1995 Diane Barlow Close and Gretchen Miller Use in whole prohibited. Individual articles are the property of the author. Seek permission from that author before reprinting or quoting elsewhere. Important Addresses: Send submissions to: h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com (or reply to this message). Adds/drops/archives: majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com Real, live person: h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Topics: Hook and Eye Tape Re: accessing the archives FAQ Re: Women's Work Re: French Hoods RE: Kohler Re: 14th Century Silks Re: Hook and Eye Tape Clothing damage Re: 14th Century Silks Re: H-Costume Digest V4 #46 costume breakdown Vintage Clothing buyer Wardrobe Re: H-Costume Digest V4 #46 Re: 14th Century Silks fabric fulling and trimming Professional career Silk threads mirror of fashion Re: 14th C. Silks ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 11:16:44 -0800 From: Joan Broneske Subject: Hook and Eye Tape Help! I am sewing Hook and Eye Tape on a bodice and I am having trouble = getting it to lay right and not gape. How exactly should this be sewn = on? Any suggestions, comments etc.? It seems that one side flips open = too easily, thereby revealing the tape. Joan Broneske ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:07:48 -0800 (PST) From: close (Diane Barlow Close) Subject: Re: accessing the archives FAQ Teresa Shannon wrote: > Is there anyway for a newsgroup like this to have a FAQ posted once a week > or so stating how to get the archives, to check the archives first > especially for XXXX subjects? The info is already included in the "welcome to the list" message you get when you sign up to this list, so there's really no excuse for newbie-list-members other than not reading the welcome message (and shame on you if you don't read it!). As well, it's posted to the list once a month. To post it more frequently is not good, imho, as it'll just fill up the archives and be ignored as noise after a while. Here it is One More Time: Archives are available by using e-mail, from the archive server, majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com. To get an index of available files, send a message with the words: index h-costume as the body of the message, to majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com. Then use the command: get h-costume filename where "filename" is the actual name of the file, to retrieve the named file. Multiple requests per message are allowed. I suggest starting with the files CONTENTS and TOPICS. Note that they are spelled in all capital letters -- the server is case sensitive. When you get an index of files back, you'll notice that some file names are spelled in all capital letters and some are a mix of lower case letters and numbers. Request them exactly as you see them listed. I.e. if you request "contents" you'll get back an error message, but if you ask for CONTENTS you'll get back that file. The CONTENTS file is a list of all the topics discussed, split up by volume numbers. The TOPICS file is an alphabetical list of all the topics discussed, and a notation that tells you in which volume they can be found. So, if you wanted the file called TOPICS you'd send: get h-costume TOPICS as the body of a message to majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com and the server would send you back that file. - -- Diane Close I'm at lunch all day. :-) If a Canadian Had Said It First (The Globe & Mail): "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance plus GST." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:14:10 -0800 From: "R.L. Shep" Subject: Re: Women's Work Marsha Hamilton wrote: > > ISBN is 0393035069 > > >| Barber, Elizabeth Wayland. > >| Women's Work-the first 20,000 years: > >| women, cloth, and society > >| in early times. New York: Norton, 1994. > > >Could you send me the ISBN for this one? This book "Women's Work - the first 20,000 years" was reviewed in the Winter 1996 issue of RAGS by Jackie Wollenberg R.L. Shep ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Feb 96 21:18:49 PST From: Kat@grendal.rain.com (June Russell) Subject: Re: French Hoods You wrote: French Hoods were worn without veils by young :women and especially unmarried women. Could you share your documentation with me please. I have looked and looked for any documentation other than costume books who could be quoting misconceptions. I've looked at portrature, letters (such as Lisle letters) and inventories from the period. They all suggest that the Paste (the part that looks like a crescent) was always worn with a veil. Even the young girls I've found at least have a bag back to their hoods. Kat Kat ( June Russell ) pacifier.com!grendal!kat kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! ------------------------------ Date: 27 Feb 96 16:19:48 EST From: Denise_Mahaffey@mhsmail.git.gulfaero.com Subject: RE: Kohler Author: Karl Kohler Title: History of Costume Dover Publications, NY they have a listed phone # and an entire catalog of costuming and period source books. Some theatrical, some not. It has incredible pictures of extent garments, some line drawings and patterns. His patterns are difficult to follow and modify unless you are a perfect size 8, and then some don't size correctly. They don't upsize very well at all. Good source book, but IMHO not a good pattern book. Denise/Mostly a Lurker ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:59:16 -0800 (PST) From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: 14th Century Silks On Wed, 28 Feb 1996 COakley@aol.com wrote: > 2. Is silk noil an acceptable alternative for dress-weight linen? I would say that the best linen-substitute for medieval European clothing - -- if for whatever reason you simply cannot use linen -- would be cotton. Both are plant fibers with similar functional properties. My argument here is not one of "well, cotton was known, so they _could_ have used it", I'm speaking from the point of view of a 20th century re-creationist. If you _have_ to substitute something, for reasons of cost or availability, then cotton is really the best choice. Heather Rose Jones ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 21:35:48 -0500 From: BBrisbane@aol.com Subject: Re: Hook and Eye Tape Dear Joan - I'm afraid you have to get out a hand needle and stitch it down. Brenda ------------------------------ Date xQueueRunSize=250 From afn25136@afn.org (Katherine L. Rodman) Subject Clothing damage Reading the recent posts on garment damage I had to laugh and relate to you my lovely experience wearing period garb. When I was in high school I spent a summer working at a lovely antebellum mansion in Natchez, MS. We wore accurate period garb, much of which was not terribly comfortable in the July Mississippi heat. The lady of the manor gown, which by some interesting mechanations I now own, was a lovely and extremely accurate hooped gown, the only problem being that to our shorts and halter clad group, it was heavy as all get out. We would draw straws to see who would have to wear the gown that day, the loser being the lucky soul. I can't tell you how many times we got stuck in the modern door ways or knocked over priceless antiques while wearing that gown. It was beautiful and extremely unwieldy and the frightening thing was when we had our evening "cotillion" dances for the tourists. You have never seen anything more humorous in your life until you have seen 7 16-18 yr olds tromping around in exquisite period gowns knocking down everything in their wake. I hope this is not too much off the subject, but I thought you all might enjoy it. Do any of you historical reenactors have similar stories, Toodles, Kat Katherine L. Rodman afn25136@afn.org Gainesville, FL "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 20:08:19 -0700 From: savaskan@electriciti.com (Julie Adams) Subject: Re: 14th Century Silks >> I'm >>speaking from the point of view of a 20th century re-creationist. If you >>_have_ to substitute something, for reasons of cost or availability, then >>cotton is really the best choice. >> >>Heather Rose Jones > Hmmm. I like the way silk noil has no body like real lightweight linen. IMHO, I think it drapes more like linen that cotton. Julie Adams ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 23:17:57 -0500 (EST) From: GINA@delphi.com Subject: Re: H-Costume Digest V4 #46 Cindy. Thank you. I had not read this, but was merely quoting the sources that I have read. Your version does sound very plausible. I will attempt to follow it up. Interesting. - -Jocasta ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Feb 96 00:20:22 EST From: Adair Redish Subject: costume breakdown Faced with fast aproaching deadlines (opening on Mar 6), I have no time to do l ibrary research on this topic. I need a few fast suggestions of how to do rever sible or un-do-able breakdown, ie restore the garmet after using it in a worn l ook state. In the past I have used woodfurnace charcoal and ashes as well as wa shable hairspray, both of which were about 90 percent drycleaning removeable. B ut this time we want to look worn rather than grubby. I've considered giving my 'elves' rasps and sand paper, but that would permanently ruin the items from o ur stock. Suggetions??? Thank .........Adair ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 22:13:02 -0800 From: LMetz Subject: Vintage Clothing buyer I realize I am not supposed to discuss buying/selling clothing in this group, so I will be brief. I would like to communicate with someone in the Southern Ca. area who sews vintage clothing (mainly renaissance, but other eras will be ok too) and sells it. Please e-mail me if you are that person. Mainly, I would like to buy some clothing (moderately priced...not outrageously expensive) that I can actually wear daily, AND clothing I can wear on special occasions. Thanks, LMetz ------------------------------ Date: 29 Feb 96 09:41:00 GMT From: Mrs C S Yeldham Subject: Wardrobe It is my understanding (though I have no sources to quote at the moment!) that Henry VIII's Wardrobe was a separate office of state and was based at Baynard Castle in Blackfriars in London. This is very close to the river (I used to work in the area) but any physical evidence has long gone. To be pedantic, I would say it was down river from, say, Hampton Court, not up river. I thought Elizabeth used the same place, but according to Harrison by the time he was writing (see below), it was a ruin. There was also a Tower Royal close by. The reference to the river is crucial. Transport by river or sea was much the easiest way to travel, until the roads were improved in the 18th and 19th centuries. Horseback would presumably be fine, but coach and cart (unsprung) would be very uncomfortable, and the roads were notoriously potholed - there are tales from the 18th century of potholes big enough to drown horses. Henry and Elizabeth both had State Barges they used on the Thames, and there was also a thriving and regulated system of water taxis on the Thames. 'Man for All Seasons' shows frequent use of these barges. (BTW I think that's a much better film for costume than Anne of a thousand days - which I admit I haven't seen since it first came out, but it annoyed me then, particularly on her behaviour) According to Harrison's 'Description of England' (1587) the Knights Marshall, whose writ ran within the Court or verge, could condem an adulterer or fornicator to be dragged over the Thames between Lambeth and Westminster at the tail of a boat 'a punishment that most terrifieth them which are condemned thereto' (and I'm not surprised!). I can recommend Harrison, published by Dover in 1994 ISBN 0-486-28275-9, for all sorts of oddities - including a wonderful justification for considering barnacle geese as coming from barnacles, and therefore being fish (ie it could be eaten on days when meat was not allowed). Caroline ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Feb 96 10:00:56 GMT From: Alan Braggins Subject: Re: H-Costume Digest V4 #46 > two possible pieces of equipment that might be used for shearing (though I > have not tried either of them): an electric razor or barber neck clippers > that work on the principle of the lawn mower (Norelco razors work this > way), and a sanding machine. It would be imperative to make sure the cloth > was completely dry with either of these machines, for if moisture and > electrical equipment are combined, electric shock can result. I've got a beard trimmer that's a bit narrow for large areas of cloth, but might work for the scultured effect suggested. The principle is closer to an Allen scythe than a cylinder mower - I'm not sure if that was what was meant. I can imagine using a sanding machine to raise the nap, but not to shear. However, I've often used a sander with wet-and-dry paper used wet (not on cloth), so don't be too paranoid about moisture (but don't sue me if you do electrocute yourself). ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 08:42:12 -0600 (CST) From: Teresa Shannon Subject: Re: 14th Century Silks On Wed, 28 Feb 1996, Julie Adams wrote: > >> I'm > >>speaking from the point of view of a 20th century re-creationist. If you > >>_have_ to substitute something, for reasons of cost or availability, then > >>cotton is really the best choice. > >> > >>Heather Rose Jones > > > Hmmm. I like the way silk noil has no body like real lightweight linen. > IMHO, I think it drapes more like linen that cotton. > > Julie Adams I agree with both of you. Silk noil has more of a drape than most cottons, however a cotton or cotten blend will be able to take the strain and body heat better than silk noil. Silk noil just can't support strain, especially off the grain, it pills slightly which is not what you want medievally, and sweat does weaken it further faster than cotton. There really is nothing life linen, but a blend with linen in it is the next best thing, either linen/cotton, linen/silk, or linen/rayon. Teresa ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 10:13:42 -0500 From: walter@dept.physics.upenn.edu (Karen R. Walter) Subject: fabric fulling and trimming Hi folks: Regarding trimming the nap on fulled woolens, Carol Kocian wrote: > My thought was to use an electric razor with a spacer of some >sort. >Some years ago, a razor called the "Miami Device" was available. It left >stubble like that popularized by actor Don Johnson on the show Miami Vice. >It would probably be ideal for shearing fabric; I must confess that I did >not try this myself. This sounds like a regular man's beard trimmer, frankly. (My spouse has one.) It adjusts for height. We got ours in the small appliance section of a regular department store. I believe (but wouldn't swear) it was in the $30-40 range. I'm not sure "The Final Steps" is still in print? It's certainly been a long time since I've seen it listed in the Interweave catalog, or for sale anywhere. It is a great little publication, though. Karen Walter walter@dept.physics.upenn.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 22:10:14 -0800 From: LMetz Subject: Professional career I was wondering (and I know I have asked similar questions before) if there is anyone out there who can privately e-mail me about information on...well, learning how to pursue a career in the Historical Costume business. I would like any information, but what I would really like to know is just where do I go to school for this sort of thing? I live in Southern Ca. and the only school around here is an expensive fashion design school. I don't really have the money to go there, but I really would love to get a degree in historical costume design. I am currently at a community college that offer no classes on this subject. Isn't there any other way to get professional education in this field besides going to private, expensive art schools? I'd love to know, if someone could tell me. If there is anyone out there who has a degree in this subject, or if someone does this as a profession (and not for part-time money), I'd really like to hear from you. Sincerely, LMetz Costumer-wannabe ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 00:35:22 -0500 From: WRASaylor@aol.com Subject: Silk threads Does anyone out there know where I can get silk thread in a equal size to the cotton doily # 3 thread available at Ben Franklin's. I plan to use this for tablet weaving, so if anyone knows of anything better, please let me know. I definately want it to be silk though. Thank you all very much. Rhodri wrasaylor@aol.com or rsaylor@scs.unr.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 11:14:54 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Zakim Subject: mirror of fashion Does anyone know where I can find extant issues of The Mirror of Fashion, a "tailors' magazine" published in New York City in the 1840s and 1850s? There is a three volume run from the fifties at the New York Public Library (though currently unavailable) but I can't locate anything from the forties. And while I'm already asking ... does anyone know the whereabouts of either the first or second edition of a book called Fashion: The Power that Influences the World, by George Patrick Fox, who was a New York tailor in the mid-nineteenth century? The third edition, published in 1872, is easy to find, but the first two (1850 and 1860, respectively) seem to have disappeared. Thanks for any help, Michael Zakim mz18@columbia.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 11:53:56 -0500 From: COakley@aol.com Subject: Re: 14th C. Silks Ms Shannon, First, happy birthday... and thanks for your very thorough response. Diatribe deserved and humbly accepted. I got lazy, because I had specific questions and I guess I was looking for someone familiar with Thai Silks' stock, but I didn't intend to impose on anyone to send a reply so lengthy. I will check the archives next time. In Thai Silks' current swatch set; the fabrics you remember are still there, although the velvet is now silk back with a rayon pile, 82% synthetic. I don't see anything listed as peau de soie, but their "silk charmeuse" is described as "silk satin with crepe back, 18.5 mm, 100% silk" and comes in 32 colors. That was what I was asking about, not a synthetic lingerie-type charmeuse (I guess my mention of bridal satin was confusing). Do you think this could be a new name for the peau de soie? The swatches look a lot like the "peau de soie" (real silk) shoes I used to get for dying-to-match when I was young and reckless... (BTW, I _think_ the SCA fabric guidelines' comment about a softer sheen on bridal satin had to do not with color, but with the surface. A lot of synthetic satins have a very hard, too-shiny look to them.) Again, thanks and I'll shut up now and get the archives. Val Winkler/Kate Oakley COakley@aol.com ------------------------------ End of H-Costume Digest V4 #48 ****************************** A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, send the command lines: unsubscribe h-costume-digest subscribe h-costume end in the body of a message to majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com. Thanks and enjoy the list!