From: owner-h-costume-digest (H-Costume Digest) To: h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Subject: H-Costume Digest V4 #54 Reply-To: h-costume Sender: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Errors-To: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk H-Costume Digest Wednesday, March 6 1996 Volume 4, Number 54 Compilation copyright (C) 1996 Diane Barlow Close and Gretchen Miller Use in whole prohibited. Individual articles are the property of the author. Seek permission from that author before reprinting or quoting elsewhere. Important Addresses: Send submissions to: h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com (or reply to this message). Adds/drops/archives: majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com Real, live person: h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Topics: Washing Linen RE: JAPANESE CLOTHING Rennfaire costuming Re: H-Costume Digest V4 #53 Short hair for women? Re: Short hair for women? Templar Knights Fabric Printing ? Clarification Re: Short hair for women? Re: H-Costume Digest V4 #53 Washing linen Re: Rennfaire costuming Re: Short hair for women? Janet Arnold Short hair for women Renfair costuming ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 06 Mar 1996 14:59:29 -0800 From: Chelsea Hoffmann Subject: Washing Linen AHH, LINEN I just attended a workshop for making Irish L=E9ine (pronounced LIN-YA or = LIN -- it looks like a nightgown with really long, hanging sleeves) which = should be made of linen. I was told that it was best to prewash/dry the = material for major shrinkage, and leave from six to twelve inches in the = hem for future shrinkage. Expect it to shrink more warp-wise (with the = grain) over time: we were warned that if we cut the length of the gown = against the grain it would be too tight to wear in a year or so, but if = cut with the grain and hemmed at the ankle it would shrink to mid-calf. = Since I am not much of a seamstress, I am not sure why this is. I am = guessing that it would be due to the tension of the warp fibers being = greater than the tension in the weft (from a weaver's point of view). We wear l=E9ines and sarks for 16th c. Scottish and Irish costumes and they= get a lot of hard wear. However, both my roommates have l=E9ines and/or = sarks (full sleeves with cuffs), of linen or muslin, worn 20 weekends a = year, machine washed and dried, that have lasted five years. And yes, they = get nice and soft. = DRY CLEANING I worked at a dry cleaners and the difference is that Perc doesn't = saturate the fiber like water does, only the weave, and chemically = "lifts", bonds with or attracts the dirt and oil off the weave. Hence, = "dry" means the fiber doesn't get wet, but the fabric does. I have also = read that oil and dirt degrade fibers faster than water and as a = consequence your clothes last longer if you wash them soon after wearing, = rather than letting them sit in the hamper or floor for unmentionable = periods of time. = TIDE FOR THE WELL-DRESSED GALLOWGLAS >From a historical point of view, an average highland Scot (read: poor) = would have maybe two undergarments per year, worn constantly. Richer = people would only have more than two, or longer sleeves, or fuller drapes, = not necessarily better cloth. You would be beating the bejeebers out of your clothes with a rock and = harsh lye soap, and you wouldn't do that too often because the weather's = so darn wet you'd either have to prop it up before a fire to dry (in the = middle of the room, no mantle to hang it from) or lay it outside and hope = it didn't rain. IRONING I got caught ironing my sark one morning and was severly scolded for such = a heinously non-period slip. That was before we had a dryer and I wasn't = about to spend the day in wet clothes. So I ironed it dry and rolled it up = in a ball to put the wrinkles back in. :-) Cheers, Chelsea choffmann@earthlink.net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Mar 96 17:29:59 PST From: ches@tristero.io.com Subject: RE: JAPANESE CLOTHING In answer to questions 2 and 3 yes there are many good books. One is a pattern book that tells you how to make patterns: Patterns for Theatrical Costumes by Katherine Strand Holkeboer ( it has a long bibliography listing what books she based her patterns off of) The other is a pattern from Amazon Dry Goods for Japanese Clothing: AMAZON DRY GOODS AND PICKLE WORKS: 2218 E. 11th St.Davenport, IA 52803-3760(319) 322-6800(800) 798-7979 - orders ONLY and only from the US(319) 322-4003 - fax- $5.00 per catalog: a) general catalog b) historical patterns catalog c) shoes and footwear catalog. Ciao @}\ Ches @}----`--,-- http://www.io.com/~ches/ @}/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 18:48:45 -0600 (CST) From: "I. Marc Carlson" Subject: Rennfaire costuming A question to the folks who do renaissance fairs: I understand that the established fairs all have costuming standards to which the performers, employees, and vendors must adhere; but do those standards permit women's outfits that try to display as much of the breasts as possible, in an authentic manner? In the discussions on this list I've heard reference to the infamous "tits-on-a-plate" bodices (which I've seen on a woman at the Tulsa Highland Games - she looked like she was wearing a cream pitcher), but this weekend I saw a gown that makes it pale in comparison. I attended the North Texas Irish Music Festival in Dallas, and noticed several booths for various RenFairs and festivals. The quality of dress varied considerably, from pure fantasy (show me docuemntation for an Elizabethan era man's jerkin made of tooled saddle leather in a Lindisfarne Gospel Celtic knotwork pattern, I dare you), to good-looking and well-made (an archer of the vaguely Robin Hood variety). Then there were the two young ladies . . . (Before I proceed, out of fairness, I will declare to all and sundry that I am a costuming snob and an authenticity maven. I've made a heavy study of pre-1650 costuming over the last decade, I've costumed Madrigal Dinners, studied the topic at a university level, and been behind a large-scale push in my SCA region to improve the overall level of authenticity, research, and quality of costume. Although my own personal interests are for the British Isles, 1100 to 1400, most of the costuming I do for other people is post-1500. I own considerable resources for renaissance costuming. I am strict about the quality of my research and documentation, minored in medieval history, and until the layoffs last spring I was an academic . . . you get the idea.) Well, back to the young ladies. They were cheerful, polite, and doing a marvellous job of talking up the particular Fair that they represented. Their gowns were made by a seamstress/tailor of great technical skill. The choices of color and decoration were pleasant and in keeping with middle class women of the 16th century. The skirts on one were even cartridge-pleated. But where in the world did they get the idea that they should be able to rest their chins on their bosoms? Without tilting their heads down! It looked horrible. I committed the unforgivalbe social gaff of staring with my jaw dropped; and I couldn't quit staring. The object of my stare smiled and waved at me, I guess thinking that I though she looked just astounding. Well, she did, let me tell you. Is this kind of decolletage common with the RenFairs? Their breasts were, literally, mounded up above their collarbones. The second lady's dress, save for color, was almost identical to her companion's. Except for their chests, they were NOT tight-laced. They had plenty of flexibility and movement. They were both muscular but not slender, i.e., large but not overweight (I've seen many Rubenesque women try to use a corset to reduce their figure and wind up squeezing over the top of the corset, like so much compressed toothpaste - not the case here). Their corseting made for the proper late 16th c. northern European stylish profile, except for their busts. Has anyone else seen this? Is there some sort of documentation, or what has been misinterpreted as documentation, for this? I'm familiar with Hans Holbein's numerous drawings of English and German women with breasts mounded up, but not nearly that high, and anyway, these ladies were dressing up in Elizabethan, not Henrician Tudor. I have seen some bad costuming in my time, and some outrageous costuming, but this just floored me. Do the fairs care about how the women display themselves, or what kind of message such outfits give poeple about the women in them, or the fairs that they are promoting? I'm not prudish about overt displays of sexual characteristics, but badly done displays of one's "attributes" tweaks me, and misrepresentations of what people wore even more so. Posting from my husband's account, Jennifer Carlson Tulsa, OK Authenticity Police, Department of Internal Affairs: "Mistress Retentive, unhand that new member! You're under arrest!" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 16:54:24 -0800 From: Susan Fatemi Subject: Re: H-Costume Digest V4 #53 Re: Ancient Egypt. I believe the original poster wanted Middle Kingdon and New Kilnd(oops) Kingdom. Tons of materail was published years ago when King Tut was making the rouonds. (sorry about the bloopers,no backspace) That stuff should be very helpful. Susan Fatemi susanf@eerc.berkeley.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 16:57:33 -0800 From: Cin Subject: Short hair for women? Yes, in France just after the Revolution was awash in short haired women, many shockingly dressed in diaphonous gowns. (see references on the Nymphs & Merveilleuses) In England during the Regency many cut their hair "a la Titus" "Caracalla" or after other classical hairstyles. French painters David, La Me'sange`re, Rouget, Ingres, Ge'rard, Le Fe`vre might be of interest. The english journal "Ackermans" (Dover reprint) also shows several as does the paper "The Strand". You asked for fashion examples but not "aberations". Who knows? We weren't there. I'd bet that the short haircut was not ubiquitous. Classical styles seems to have been from Aphrodite curls to wigs "`a la grecque". You mention short hair because of sickness. Quite true! I have several Household management, health and manners books all of which mention shaving the head to ease a severe fever. Add purgatives in the form of emetics, diuretics and "sweats" to compleat the cure for Small Pox, Purpureal Fever and other ills. Most of these sources are 1840-1880. Books: "Mrs. Beaton's", Searchlights into Dark Corners", "American Housewifery", "The Indian Medicine Book", "Dick's Encyclopedia". "The Bazaar Book of Health", Harper's, NY, 1873 is particularly keen on shaved heads to cure fever. One might also shave ones head and dip the scalp in kerosene to rid the head of lice. While perhaps apocryphal, there's also that lovely romantic story where the husband & wife have no money. She sells her hair to buy him a watchchain. He sells the watch to buy her a comb for her hair. - --cin cin@netuser.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 17:12:33 -0800 From: denikai@ix.netcom.com (Marie Denikas ) Subject: Re: Short hair for women? Laura - the only times I can think of short hair for women were in the 12th century, and those were for the lower classes. They cut it for convenience, I believe. Unfortunately, I don't have any solid references for this. I have found references in a roundabout way, tho. Marie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Mar 1996 19:13:18 -0600 (CST) From: FRIENDC@carleton.edu Subject: Templar Knights As far as I know, the Templars were an order who came and went during the time of the Crusades (second?). There's a crazy, interesting novel dealing somewhat with the Templar Knights and general esoteric mysticism: Umberto Eco's _Foucault's Pendulum_. Weird and good. Chandra ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 20:00:56 -0500 From: recon36@server.iadfw.net (Ed Walton) Subject: Fabric Printing ? Clarification Thanks for the leads on getting books of sewing patterns published, but what I really meant was that I want to get geometric camouflage patterns from various WW2 participants screened onto cotton fabric. I don't know anything about the process and need to educate myself so I don't look like a complete idiot. What are some good books on the subject? - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - --Ed Walton "Lost Battalions" Original and Reproduction WW2 Uniforms http://web2.airmail.net/recon36 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 18:14:57 -0800 (PST) From: Agnes Gawne Subject: Re: Short hair for women? Laura Yungblut asked: Is there any period in history where short hair for women was not an aberrration? Although it was not common there is record of a very short hairstyle known as the "hedgehog" that was around in the Regency Period. (That's early 19th century). I don't have the exact references here at work but I will get them if needed. I know for a fact it is illustrated in R Turner Wilcox's "The Mode in Hats and Headdress". ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Mar 1996 23:18:50 -0500 (EST) From: GINA@delphi.com Subject: Re: H-Costume Digest V4 #53 Thank you to all who answered my request for information regarding washing linen. I think I now have the courage to do some tests, and see what I come up with. I really appreciate all the offerings! - -Jocasta ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 21:03:44 -0800 (PST) From: Allan Terry Subject: Washing linen Regina, One strange recent tendency is for manufacturers to label cottons and linens, which are in fact best cleaned by washing, as "Dry Clean Only." I see this most often in ready-to-wear. There it often indicates that the manufacturer cut corners by not preshrinking the fabric. Or they used a nonwashable interfacing, lining, or trim with a washable fabric. Both these things can and should be avoided when you sew your own clothes. The only things likely to happen to cottons and linens are (a) shrinkage and (b) running dyes. Shrinkage is not a problem if you get it over with _before_ cutting out. Just wash and dry the fabric at a high temperature, by machine unless it's very lightweight (like batiste or handkerchief linen). If lightweight, soak in the hottest available tap water for about an hour, let it drip dry a while, then iron it the rest of the way dry. Do this on the wrong side (linen gets shiny when ironed) and keep the fabric aligned on the ironing board to avoid distorting the grain. Iron both cotton and linen at the "cotton" setting on your iron. "Linen" is too hot on most irons. Wrinkles are not permanent at all, except for things like pleats that have been in the garment a long time. However, iron steam isn't totally effective on cotton and linen wrinkles. You need to spray the fabric with water. Buy a manual sprayer at a hardware or garden supply store. You can sometimes shrink dark colors in medium temperature water if you will wash them in cold, but hot water is more effective for shrinking. As for running dyes--linen is prone to this and there's not much you can do about it. Just prepare yourself to like a lighter shade than you bought. Most dye runoff will occur during shrinkage, so you don't have to worry about dye getting on your other clothes in the wash. Hope this helps. Fran Grimble ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 00:06:59 -0500 From: Morghana@aol.com Subject: Re: Rennfaire costuming In a message dated 96-03-06 22:17:59 EST, IMC@vax2.utulsa.edu (I. Marc Carlson) writes: >I have seen some bad costuming in my time, and some outrageous >costuming, but this just floored me. Do the fairs care about how >the women display themselves, or what kind of message such outfits >give poeple about the women in them, or the fairs that they are >promoting? I'm not prudish about overt displays of sexual >characteristics, but badly done displays of one's "attributes" >tweaks me, and misrepresentations of what people wore even more so. > >Posting from my husband's account, > >Jennifer Carlson >Tulsa, OK > >Authenticity Police, Department of Internal Affairs: >"Mistress Retentive, unhand that new member! You're under arrest!" > > I just HAVE to reply to this one!!!! First off, let me preface these remarks with: Yes, I am SCA, and I do very much want to see correct garb/costuming done and encouraged within SCA. I also love the RenFest here in Minnesota, and would not miss it for the world. But RenFaires are NOT SCA and to expect them to adhere to academic standards or to hold to strict historical accuracy is both ridiculous and snobbish. SCA is a quasi-educational group. RenFaires are a business. There is a monumental distance between the basic tenets of the two, and to try to hold any RenFaire to your self-confessed fanaticism is simply inviting more of the ill-will that seems to simmer between the two entities. If you want to raise your brows and cluck in distaste, then please start with the stick jocks who wear the sunglasses and Reeboks and duct tape on their plastic armor. Or the folk who have been in SCA for years (maybe even have that AoA!!) and still wear the same tunic over sweatpants and sport those watches that have every timing function known to man proudly displayed with an iridescent blue glow....NOT the RenFaire actors who are well-costumed, actually HAVE a persona, and can smile and make the non-participants feel comfortable enough to laugh, joke and maybe even ask a few questions and learn a thing or two. Yes, this IS a hot button for me. There is plenty of room for both SCA and RenFaires, and to put one down in favor of the other in the long run will damage both. (And if you posted "tongue-in-cheek", and it totally escaped me, I apologize profusely). For your devotion to research and authenticity, I applaud you and encourage you to continue and widen the knowledge base. I would like to be able to learn from you. But I truly HOPE you teach in a more gentle manner than this post indicates. The knowledge you have is needed and wanted. Please make it easier to ask for your help and not worry about suffering from scorn or be posted about as you have done here......... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 22:11:57 -0700 (MST) From: cwood@primenet.com Subject: Re: Short hair for women? I notice all the answers to this question have so far only included Western European women. I am under the impression that it was common for many African tribal women to have short hair or shaved heads, but of course I can't put my hands on any citations at the moment. I am also wondering about Egyptian women--obviously Queen Nefertetti (okay, I don't know how to spell it, but I think everyone knows who I am talking about)had a shaved head but I don't know if this was just common for the upper classes or not. Obviously the lower classes were not wearing wigs all the time. I suppose in an extremely hot climate short hair might be an asset. Ysabeau An Amateur and not afraid to Admit it! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 20:32:39 -0800 (PST) From: Deborah Tarsiewicz - 3528981 Subject: Janet Arnold Hello all, I have been looking for a copy of Janet Arnold's "A Handbook of Costume" to add to my costume book collection. If anyone knows where this book can be located please let me know (by private email). Thank you :) Deborah Tarsiewicz Riverside CA dtarsiew@nunic.nu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 22:20:24 -0800 (PST) From: Allan Terry Subject: Short hair for women Laura, Short hair was fashionable for women from around 1800 almost up until 1820. Long hair when worn was kept close to the head in braids or fairly short curls. Some styles seem to be patently false braids wrapped around a short hairstyle. See Richard Corson's _Fashions in Hair: The First Five Thousand Years_ (London: Peter Owen, 1965). Fran Grimble ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 22:32:47 -0800 (PST) From: Allan Terry Subject: Renfair costuming Jennifer, Standard Renaissance Fair costumes have evolved that have little to do with authenticity. For men the outfit is a peasant shirt, jerkin, and slightly full knickers. For women it is a full white peasant blouse, colored lace-up bodice, and one or more full but drapey skirts. Both sexes are often hung about with pouches and carry tankards. The low-cut bodice is not mandatory, but attracts attention from tourists and others. Although I've never liked these costumes, they are simple and cheap to make--important for fairs that have lots of volunteer and very badly paid help, who are expected to supply their own costumes. Also, they re comfortable to wear all day in summer, when most Renaissance fairs happen. Fran Grimble ------------------------------ End of H-Costume Digest V4 #54 ****************************** A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, send the command lines: unsubscribe h-costume-digest subscribe h-costume end in the body of a message to majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com. Thanks and enjoy the list!