From: owner-h-costume-digest (H-Costume Digest) To: h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Subject: H-Costume Digest V4 #70 Reply-To: h-costume Sender: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Errors-To: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk H-Costume Digest Thursday, March 14 1996 Volume 4, Number 70 Compilation copyright (C) 1996 Diane Barlow Close and Gretchen Miller Use in whole prohibited. Individual articles are the property of the author. Seek permission from that author before reprinting or quoting elsewhere. Important Addresses: Send submissions to: h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com (or reply to this message). Adds/drops/archives: majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com Real, live person: h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Topics: Fascinators Re: Ornamentation Question Re: fascinators/hair receivers Re: Irish ladies gown Re: Dress/Italy 1300-1600 conference 18th Century Clothing Book RE: Janet Arnold RE: Janet Arnold Re: Dress/Italy 1300-1600 conference Re: 18th Century Clothing Book Janet Arnold Books Re: 18th Century Clothing Book Frog Closures bloomers Margaret Scott Question on Rayon Re: Question on Rayon Re: Question on Rayon new, relatively permanent email address David and Goliath-HELP! Apologies for Turkeys! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 12:49:43 -0600 From: Jan Rosenthal Subject: Fascinators I was interested to read about the china fascinators. The only fascinator I know is the kind that women used to knit and wear like scarves over their heads, especially if they were motoring or going out in a sleigh or carriage when the weather was cold. Any connection? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 14:15:36 -0500 From: HMHousman@aol.com Subject: Re: Ornamentation Question Forgive me for not having any citation information available at the moment; however, bezants and spangles are commonly found on Elizabethan noble outfits, particularly foreparts and sleeves (late 16th century.) There are many portraits which show them; and, I know I've seen references about them in several books. They should be placed in geometric patterns on the fabric. On brocades and embroidered fabrics they can be used to accentuate the design; and, gems can be used in conjunction with the bezants. If you need anymore information let me know. Enjoy your evening! Heather Housman ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 11:24:06 -0800 From: gwjchris@ix.netcom.com (Bill and Glenna Christen) Subject: Re: fascinators/hair receivers You wrote: >grandmother's dressing table. They are similar to a powder dish with >lid, but there is an opening in the center of the lid into which >the hair is placed...after pulling it from brushes, etc. It was my >understanding, however, that this hair was collected to be placed >in a net and used as padding _under_ the wearer's hair, as a >filler. (No documentation, Just word from Grandma.) These dressing table "necessities" were also often refered to as "hair receivers," which is a very descriptive term to say the least. I collect my own hair to pad out my own "thinish" locks when doing mid-19th Century events. It works very well! BTW, these containers are considered quite collectible by many antiquers. Glenna Jo Christen gwjchris@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 11:30:47 -0800 From: KaosWarior@vcnet.com Subject: Re: Irish ladies gown Here many answers may be found in regards to things Irish & Scottish of the 15th & 16th centuries http://users.aimnet.com/~dtowner/gt.html Tell them "Hugh Scott" sent you Slante, ---------- / / --------------- O O TO BOLDY SCOOT, WHERE NO MAN HATH SCOOTED BEFORE! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 11:30:29 -0800 From: KaosWarior@vcnet.com Subject: Re: Dress/Italy 1300-1600 conference Sarah J wrote; >Could anyone point me in the direction of good costume/history/mediveal >sites, and museums/events that I *should* go see? I have been through >the Louvre, and a few of the main things... in france.. It will be my >first trip to england, and I wanna see cool stuff! cool period stuff! > If you find yourself in York, Try to get the early tour that starts @ the Minster Cathedral. Your taken around the entire city, on a large section of the largest intact medival defensive wall in all of the UK & Europe. Also it takes you into the cathedral, as well as sneaking you past them looooooonnnggg line to the Viking museum of the a.d. 900 village there. Must see! >Any points or recommendations for cafes nice places to be in or escape to >Would also be helpful. p.s. Bed & Breakfast is the best way to go for your dollar, or should I say "pound?" Good luck & have a good time Hugh Scott ---------- / / --------------- O O TO BOLDY SCOOT, WHERE NO MAN HATH SCOOTED BEFORE! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 03:52:18 -0500 From: zorro@netdepot.com (David Marcus & Peggy Lamberson) Subject: 18th Century Clothing Book I saw a beautiful book in the book store yesterday with photos of 18th century clothing in the collection of the Kyoto Art Institute (Kyoto Art Museum? I'm not sure, but it was definitely Kyoto). The clothing is European, BTW, not Japanese. There were some really gorgeous court gowns from the mid-18th century. The quality of the photographs is very good; I didn't have time to really check out the text. The title is: Revolution in Fashion 1715-1815. Well worth a look. Peggy Lamberson ------------------------------ Date: 13 Mar 96 13:30:57 EST From: Denise_Mahaffey@mhsmail.git.gulfaero.com Subject: RE: Janet Arnold Lyssa: As yet Janet Arnold does not have a book out on the "Gothic" or "Early Ren" time period. I have heard from several sources that she is currently working on a comprehensive study of that time period for publication. Title, release date, cost, publisher, etc. are not known and the rumor is as yet unsubstantiated. (By me anyway.) I know that there are alot of people waiting anxiously for it to hit the market. You can get a list of all of her books and many others by going to Books-A-Million, Media Play or some other larger chain type bookstore that is computerized. Many times they will show titles, authors, ISBN#'s and other info on books, even out of print ones. I have heard there is a book by Margaret Scott that is a good reference piece for that time period. It is titled "Late Gothic Europe 1400-1500" . I have some photocopies of a few chapters but, as yet have been unable to land the book. It is out of print and scarce. Also, Norris' book covers the time periods and earlier very well. (also out of print and scarce) Hope this helps.. Denise ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 16:24:50 -0600 (CST) From: Teresa Shannon Subject: RE: Janet Arnold > Date: 13 Mar 96 13:30:57 EST > From: Denise_Mahaffey@mhsmail.git.gulfaero.com > To: h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com > Cc: mgriggs@shepards.com > Subject: RE: Janet Arnold > > I have heard there is a book by Margaret Scott that is a good > reference piece for that time period. It is titled "Late Gothic Europe > 1400-1500" . I have some photocopies of a few chapters but, as yet > have been unable to land the book. It is out of print and scarce. > Also, Norris' book covers the time periods and earlier very well. > (also out of print and scarce) If you are interested in theatre aspects or non-historical aspects of clothing from this time period than use Norris. If you are interested in what they actually wore stay away from Norris. Norris invented most of the contents in the book and they are not based on any actual research or real objects as was many a Victorian tradition. Scott wrote another book too that maybe useful, sometimes the pictures of a book are much better than the text, Scott has great pictures. Teresa ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 17:34:13 -0500 From: Booboopies@aol.com Subject: Re: Dress/Italy 1300-1600 conference Be sure to go to the museum in Bath and also Snowshill. Many of the garments in Janet Arnold's Patterns in Fashion 1660-1860 and Nancy Bradford's Costume in Detail are from the Snowshill Collection. I've never been to either one, haven't been to England in 26 years long before I even knew about historic costume. Oh, if only I had known when I was 17 what I know now . . . Have a wonderful trip! Karen Mullian ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 17:34:32 -0500 From: Booboopies@aol.com Subject: Re: 18th Century Clothing Book Yes, it is back in print for $65!!! in the bookstores. Edward Hamilton, Bookseller, in Fairfield, CT sells it for $45. It is indeed a wonderful book, including an article by Janet Arnold on the sack back gown. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 16:42:57 -0600 (CST) From: "SHERYL J. NANCE" Subject: Janet Arnold Books Here is a list of all of the Janet Arnold books that I know of: _Patterns of Fashion_ (3 volumes) _Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd_ _Lost From Her Majesties Back_ _A Handbook of Costume_ _Perukes & Periwigs_ also _Costume: a general bibliography_ by Pegare Anthony The second edition was prepared by Janet Arnold. "Two Early Seventeenth Century Fencing Doublets" I believe that this one is a chapter in a book. Only the chapter was written by Arnold. The citation that I have is a little confusing. HTH! Sheryl J. Nance ...one of the secret masters of Kansas City MO Public Library the world: a librarian. They p_sheryl@kcpl.lib.mo.us control information. Don't ever p**s one off. - Spider Robinson, _The Callahan Touch_ (Opinions expressed in this message do not reflect the viewpoint of the Kansas City MO Public Library.) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 16:44:08 -0600 (CST) From: "Maria A. Sanders" Subject: Re: 18th Century Clothing Book > including an article by Janet Arnold on the sack back gown. The sack back gown? Is that like a Watteau gown where the back is full, loosed and pleated or gathered (I've never made one, so I'm probably wrong) into the back neckline? Maria ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 18:57:59 -0500 (EST) From: Tina Carney Subject: Frog Closures I need 20-30 for a gown I'm working on and would rather not go broke buying them. Can anyone direct me to a reasonable source or can they be made without going insane? Tina ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 19:06:14 -0500 From: PALM_CHAMBERLAIN_BETH Subject: bloomers Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 19:06:13 +0200 (IST) From: PALM_CHAMBERLAIN_BETH Subject: bloomers To: h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I am looking for imformation about bloomers. I am interested in the 1850's version not the latter cycling outfits. If anyone knows of any good books with detailed pictures or dressmaker's diagrams - or any comercial patterns- it would really help. Also, does any one know of any resources detailing the fabrics used and under garments worn? Thanks Beth ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 23:27:48 GMT From: db-cos@westmore.demon.co.uk (David Brewer) Subject: Margaret Scott In message Teresa Shannon writes: > > Date: 13 Mar 96 13:30:57 EST > > From: Denise_Mahaffey@mhsmail.git.gulfaero.com > > To: h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com > > Cc: mgriggs@shepards.com > > Subject: RE: Janet Arnold > > > > I have heard there is a book by Margaret Scott that is a good > > reference piece for that time period. It is titled "Late Gothic Europe > > 1400-1500" . I have some photocopies of a few chapters but, as yet > > have been unable to land the book. It is out of print and scarce. > > Also, Norris' book covers the time periods and earlier very well. > > (also out of print and scarce) > > [...] Scott wrote another book > too that maybe useful, sometimes the > pictures of a book are much better than the text, Scott has great pictures. While the name of Scott's other book escapes me, it has indeed got lovely pictures and I've been told it will be back in print at the end of the year. Thanks to those who replied re: French knots. - -- David Brewer ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 21:16:35 -0500 (EST) From: Annikki Weston Subject: Question on Rayon Does anyone know when rayon came into use? I know that it's a tree fiber. I remember reading the Janet Arnold _Patterns of Fashion_ book on late 16th/early 17th century stuff, and I'm positive I remember rayon being mentioned as one of the trimmings on one of the outfits, but I can't seem to find it in there again. So perhaps I'm remembering wrong. So... I was wondering if anyone out there knew, by any chance? Now back I go to glowing at my new fabric. Gotta love it when 100% raw silk and 100% linen can be had at $2.99 and $3.99 a yard. :) :) Thank you! Nikki Weston ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 21:19:14 -0500 From: recon36@server.iadfw.net (Ed Walton) Subject: Re: Question on Rayon >Does anyone know when rayon came into use? I'm probably wrong, but I thought the Germans used it first in the 30's. I do know that the Germans used rayon ersatz silk in uniform linings as a replacement for twill starting about 1941. They also used it in various forms as a replacement or blend component for duck, HBT, and wool. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - --Ed Walton "Lost Battalions" Original and Reproduction WW2 Uniforms http://web2.airmail.net/recon36 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 19:16:47 +0000 From: "Leslie Helms" Subject: Re: Question on Rayon > From: Annikki Weston > Subject: Question on Rayon > > Now back I go to glowing at my new fabric. Gotta love it when 100% raw silk > and 100% linen can be had at $2.99 and $3.99 a yard. :) :) AHEM! Where??? Please tell us it's a mail order source and that you didn't buy every inch of it.. Leslie ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Aug 1956 13:51:31 +0000 From: Gail DeCamp Subject: new, relatively permanent email address Hi, all. The place to reach me fastest is now here, at gdecamp@best.com. Everywhere else will forward to here. cheerio gail ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 05:02:13 -0500 From: Kyle1115@aol.com Subject: David and Goliath-HELP! Hi! I wrote a note to the list a couple of days ago. We are looking for good ideas on making a really good quality costume for "David" from David and Goliath for a production (elementary school). What we wanted is something that isn't too "basic", but more of a combination of historical accuracy and asthetics. Someone mentioned a Children's book on David and Goliath that supposedly had good drawings in it that would be good to base our costuming on, but I could not find it in our library or bookstores at all. It is called David and Goliath (of course), by Backhouse. (I do not know the author's first name). If anyone here can get their hands on a copy, I would be more then grateful if you could offer some suggestions on adapting the costumes from it. I am going to try a few other places for the book, I may oout out an Interlibrary loan. But we still are in need of any and all ideas on this costume! Thanks! ------------------------------ Date: 14 Mar 96 11:57:00 GMT From: Mrs C S Yeldham Subject: Apologies for Turkeys! I must apologise to Elizabeth Pruyn about Turkeys. I've checked my reference books, particularly C Anne Wilson 'Food and Drink in Britain'. She says the turkey predated the guinea-fowl (from West Africa) into England, and the turkey came in about 1523 or 1524. The Cranmer reference is 1541 when he defined the 'greater fowls' of which but one was permitted in a dish, along with crane and swan he listed turkey-cock. She gives the same prices Elizabeth does, which are high for the period. I also had a look at 'Of Butchers and Breeds' recently published by the City of Lincoln Archaeology , covering over 50 excavations in Lincoln of sites from Roman to Civil War, and there is no mention of turkey! Cranes, swans, geese, coots even, but not turkey. So it was probably rare and expensive. Mind you, I must thank Elizabeth for sending me back to the sources - I came across a 15th century reference to spinach in England, when several people have told me it came into England in the 16th century! Caroline (well it may not be strictly costume, but social history impacts on costume?) "Malt does more than Milton can, to reconcile his fate to Man" ------------------------------ End of H-Costume Digest V4 #70 ****************************** A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, send the command lines: unsubscribe h-costume-digest subscribe h-costume end in the body of a message to majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com. Thanks and enjoy the list!