From: owner-h-costume-digest (H-Costume Digest) To: h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Subject: H-Costume Digest V4 #72 Reply-To: h-costume Sender: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Errors-To: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk H-Costume Digest Monday, March 18 1996 Volume 4, Number 72 Compilation copyright (C) 1996 Diane Barlow Close and Gretchen Miller Use in whole prohibited. Individual articles are the property of the author. Seek permission from that author before reprinting or quoting elsewhere. Important Addresses: Send submissions to: h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com (or reply to this message). Adds/drops/archives: majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com Real, live person: h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Topics: University of Washington/Patterns Re: Living History Groups UPDATE: New Godey images available Regency question Washing Linen Re: Washing Linen Re: Question on Rayon chlorophyl+Linen. Re: chlorophyl+Linen. Re: chlorophyl+Linen. Re: Regency question Re: Washing Linen Re: Washing Linen Re: bloomers Color stripping linen Linen / sunshine Information on Rayon Academy Award Costume Exhibit [none] Regency Assembly Marital Status and Mode of Dress ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 9:19:20 -0600 (CST) From: "SHERYL J. NANCE" Subject: University of Washington/Patterns Thanks to those people who replied to my question about the patterns at the University of Washington. It's too bad that they are reference & can't be taken out of the library but I suppose that's really understandable. They're not the kind of thing that would hold up well to being loaned out. Special thanks to Meg who told me about her experience of tracing some of them. Sheryl J. Nance ...one of the secret masters of Kansas City MO Public Library the world: a librarian. They p_sheryl@kcpl.lib.mo.us control information. Don't ever p**s one off. - Spider Robinson, _The Callahan Touch_ (Opinions expressed in this message do not reflect the viewpoint of the Kansas City MO Public Library.) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 08:20:30 -0800 From: Joan Broneske Subject: Re: Living History Groups I would like to thank everyone who has responded with advice on my = problem in my Living History Group. Everyone had some very good ideas = and I have printed them out and am going to show them to the others in = my group. At the moment, the way we are going to handle it is to first go to her = boss, who is the City Manager and explain to him what is going on. = Unfortunately, I don't think he has a clue. She is the type of person = who is in serious denial that there is a problem and would make it look = to him like everything is running smoothly and hunky dory. The worst = part is, that now she is told one member that "well, now that we have = gotten rid of the troublemakers..." which translates into "well, now = that the people who speak up are gone...". This really bothers me that = she would talk like this about people, and especially the people in = question that quit. For all I know, I could be next if I DARE speak up = about something. I do believe she is dangerous. When the troublemakers = comment fell on deaf ears to the person she was telling this to, she = then turned visciously and said "Well, I know where your loyalties = lie!". Anyways, thanks again everyone. .....And now, back to costume stuff = (sorry Diane :) Joan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 14:32:28 +0000 From: Hope Greenberg Subject: UPDATE: New Godey images available Hi - I've added several more Dress Instructor illustrations and patterns to the Godey's Lady's Book web pages. These include a mantle, morning wrapper, dress (green silk with moss trimming and 9 flounces, whew!) and a young gentlman's cloak. Also added is an illustration and description of a Manhatten Gymanastic Costume (for you bloomer enthusiasts) and two illustrations from an article titled "The Science of Dress II" (text of article to be added at a later date). Since these are in various places you might find it easier to go to the "Welcome & What's New" page and follow the links from there: http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/godey/welcome.html Enjoy!! - - Hope - ------------- Hope Greenberg University of Vermont http://www.uvm.edu/~hag ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Mar 96 17:04:47 CST From: bednarek@tidalwave.med.ge.com (Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971 ~BHOSVWZ#097) Subject: Regency question After thinking i got all the corset styles, Tudot, Victorian, etc correct a new style came up. From what i have seen here I am assuming that this style is low back lined and strapless. Am I in the right ball park? dennis ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 23:25:32 -0500 From: Dace Veinberga Subject: Washing Linen I, too have been wearing and washing linen for years. I would like to add that yes, it does get softer and yes, it does shrink a significant amount (I am hard pressed to say exactly how much) so it is worthwhile washing several times beforehand. My mother also sprayed linen and rolled it into a ball. She said that linen had too be damp, not too wet and not too dry. Dry linen is awful to iron. About washing, I most often have washed it by hand until I discovered the gentle cycle on the washer (this is years ago). I proceeded to wash my linen on gentle with Woolite or Ivory Snow , place it in the dryer and it was fine. I have, however, since then found out that one should not wash new linen in the washer or treat it "roughly" in the beginning. "Rough" means no washer/dryer or hot/cold water. Rough handling will cause the fibre to break resulting in the kind of wrinkles that cannot be ironed out. I now wash new linen by hand very gently for the first few times(maybe about 5) in lukewarm water with a gentle soap and hang to dry. After that I throw it in the machine on gentle. I hope I have added something to the discussion. As a newcomer I find it very stimulating. Thanks, Dace Veinberga 83 Beatrice Street Toronto ON Canada M6J 2T2 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 12:12:19 -0500 From: Booboopies@aol.com Subject: Re: Washing Linen Hi all, Linen generally shrinks 15-20% the first time around. I usually only preshrink once since I not only wash it in a washer, but also dry it in a dryer. After that first washing and drying, and the garment has been made, the garment then gets washed always in cold water on the gentle cycle and then line dried. If you want white linen to whiten, it can be line dried outdoors or, better still, dried on a "bleaching" green. The combination of chlorophyl and sunlight works to whiten the linen. I'm not a scientist so I have no idea of the chemical process, nor do I wish to know, thank you very much. It is sufficient for me to know that it works. Moravians and Germans had special areas of their yards or gardens set aside for this purpose. These days you need to make sure that there are no lawn treatment chemicals, pesticides, or fertilizers on the bleaching green, or this could possibly have a disastrous effect on your linen (again, I don't know how or what this might be--we don't treat our lawn with anything except an occasional mowing, and very occasional at that). Commercial bleaches don't work very well. They sometimes have a tendency to turn white linen pinkish, not at all a desirable effect when you're trying to interpret correctly. When ironing my linens (white and colored), I use the cotton setting, as I always seem to scorch things when using the linen setting. I use a spray bottle to moisten the linen. If I'm doing 17th century, I'll starch my cap and falling bands. For 18th century, I don't bother. A good pressing usually suffices. Karen Mullian ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 13:47:47 -0500 (EST) From: LACONSTANCE@delphi.com Subject: Re: Question on Rayon Hello all, Rayon is a regenerated man-made fiber which was "invented" in an effort to imitate the production methods of silk. The idea was first proposed my a fellow named Hooke during the reign of Charles II in England. But nothing was actually done until the 1880's, after the properties of cellulose nitrate became known. The first manufactured nitrocellulose yarn was made in 1884 by Chardonnet. This yarn was highly flammable and required that the finished yarn be converted (back) into cellulose by the conversion of the nitro into hydroxyl groups upon treatment with ammonium hydrosulphide. This particular rayon is obsolete, but one can date the actual physical presence of rayon by it. It is interesting to note that much of the research into both regenerated and artificial fibers occurring in the late 1800's (and resultant development of these fibers) was due to efforts to find appropriate filaments for the *new* electric lights! Constance La Lena laconstance@delphi.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 14:23:43 -0600 (CST) From: The Espresso Pegasus! Subject: chlorophyl+Linen. I am curious. And I think that the "green' may have a bit to do with the way we see light. Blues, and greens seem 'cleaner' to the human eye. A Blue-white is brighter than a pink-white or a yellow-white. This would be why most detergents are blue. - -to enhance that property. So you just lay the fabric out on your lawn?... Have anyone ever tried taking grasses/leaves, and a mortar and Pestle and grinding then filtering the chlorophophyll out and used that in the washing? (If I remeber right, I think rubbing alchohol extracts it nicely) Oh the things your mind comes across when faced with boredom. Take care, Sarahj ______________________.oO*Oo._______________________ You Can Fret Me, But You Cannot Play Upon Me--Hamlet ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 17:03:19 -0500 From: Booboopies@aol.com Subject: Re: chlorophyl+Linen. No it is definitely a chemical reaction. I'm just not smart enough (or interested enough) to know the details. It has nothing to do with optical illusions. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 21:18:26 -0500 From: BBrisbane@aol.com Subject: Re: chlorophyl+Linen. The way I understand the process, laying the linen out in the sun on ANY substrate will bleach the linen, and just about anything else left out in the sun long enough. The lawn, or shrubberys if you have them, is simply the most frequently available surface for laying something out perpendicular to the rays of the sun. By the way, plants do not exude chlorophyl - hence having to extract it with alcohol. Perhaps it is the humors rising from the earth in the shade of the linen that creates the effect. ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 20:06:42 -0800 From: Ron Carnegie Subject: Re: Regency question At 05:04 PM 3/15/96 CST, Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971 ~BHOSVWZ#097 wrote: > > After thinking i got all the corset styles, Tudot, Victorian, etc >correct a new style came up. From what i have seen here I am assuming that >this style is low back lined and strapless. Am I in the right ball park? > >dennis > The ones in the Kyoto book are not low, nor are they strapless. They do have "cups" sewn into them. Ron Carnegie rcarnegie@tidewater.tez.net ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Mar 1996 07:48:28 -0500 From: RBarber854@aol.com Subject: Re: Washing Linen About this ironing - I learned from a friend who learned from her grandmother who did it for a living. The rolliing it up damp was to keep it that way until you got to it. The reason you iron linen last is because it is ironed at a slightly hotter settiing than the cottons. Iron until "bone dry" before disturbing each section and it will wrinkle less. I do this with my cotton too for a crisp press job that tends to last longer. A steam iron won't let it get bone dry, you need to use the iron with the steam off and the fabric thouroughly damp, but not wet. Just passing on an old wives tale that seems to work Roxy Barber ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Mar 1996 11:35:01 -0500 From: BBrisbane@aol.com Subject: Re: Washing Linen A stray thought on the bleaching of linen (as I look out on the spring snow). Laying linen out out snow is even better than laying it out on the lawn. As to ironing - I've always ironed damp to dry, and I try to keep a spray bottle of water around my sewing and ironing areas (the kids tend to carry them off, however), since a fine mist over the whole area settles static cling and fuzz problems as well. Brenda ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Mar 1996 17:51:04 GMT From: dickie@bozzie.demon.co.uk (Paul C. Dickie) Subject: Re: bloomers In message <960314175202_446570801@mail02.mail.aol.com> JPMcTeer@aol.com writes: > The only scholarly piece I know of is in the Annual Journal called "Dress" > put out by the Costume Society of America. The issue is for 1980 and the > article is "Bloomers" by Shelly Foote (Smithsonian). She has a wonderful > daguerreotype of Amelia Bloomer, ca. 1853, on the cover. There are also > fashion illustrations and many footnoted citations from magazines of the day. > A full description was published in 1851, but this article didn't say that > any patterns were published. No mention was made of underwear, except that > corsets were worn with the outfit. She mentions fabrics used for particular > outfits. The Severa book being mentioned of late also has at least one > bloomer outfit being worn by a lady politician in the 1880's. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Isn't that somewhat oxymoronic? o-) < Paul > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Mar 1996 12:11:16 -0600 (CST) From: Jennifer Carlson Subject: Color stripping linen I've acquired several linen tablecloths for that are in great condition but have been stamp printed. What treatments are available for removing dyes? One cloth in particular is being a challenge - it is printed with a horribly 1972 bright aqua, black, and peach print. Bleach has taken out the peach and a good amount of the aqua, but what will remove the black? The tablecloth is large enough that I could make a nice undergown from it, but if this dye cannot be removed, I'll have to use it for linings instead. Cany anyone help? Posting from my husband's account, Jennifer Carlson Tulsa, OK ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Mar 1996 21:16:56 +0500 From: marion@icom.ca (Marion) Subject: Linen / sunshine I'm surprised that no one has commented on the fact that the sunshine disenfects the linen. It was an excellant way to keep the spread of desease to a minimum. We used it one summer at camp when a child became infected with chicken pox and the whole cabin and contents had to be sterilized. Everything into the sun, on the grass, for the day. Marion in Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Mar 1996 22:02:02 -0500 From: EGerds@aol.com Subject: Information on Rayon According to _Textiles_ by Kadolph, Langford, Hollen & Saddler (my college textbook) Rayon was the first manufactured cellulosic fiber. Frederick Schoenbein discoverd in 1846 that cellulose pretreated with nitric acid would dissolve in a mixture of ether and alcohol, but the resulting fiber was highly explosive. (So primitive rayon may have been shown in the 1850's but nobody was making fabric out of it.) Counte Hilaire de Chardonnet made the first successful rayon in 1884 by changing the nitrocellulosic fiber back into cellulose. The first commercial rayon in the US, known as viscose for the method of manufacturing, was produced in 1911. The method having been developed in England in 1892. Rayon was sold as artificial silk until 1924, when the name rayon was adopted. So rayon is period for the turn of the century and world war one, but didn't really take off until the 30's when the machinery for spinning the fibers improved. If you want to know more, the book is in print -- a standard text book for fashion programs in colleges. Liz G. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Mar 1996 00:02:38 -0500 From: PiranhaBB@aol.com Subject: Academy Award Costume Exhibit The Fashion Institute of Design and Merchandising, Los Angeles is having an exhibit of Academy Award nominated costume films. They have pieces from four of the five nominated movies: Sense and Sensiblity, Restoration, Twelve Monkeys (!) and another one I can't think of right now. The one they don't have costumes from is Bravehart. The exhibit runs Tuesdays-Saturdays from 11-3. It is in the FIDM Gallery in Downtown Los Angeles, on Grand Street. I am planning to attend this next week. Will let the list know how it was. Regards, Lisa ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Mar 1996 00:03:48 -0500 From: PiranhaBB@aol.com Subject: [none] amiliar with, most say that corsets were not abandoned entirely during the Regency/Empire/Directoire Periods. The 'paucity of undergarments was dictated by the transparent nature of the fabric.' Just as most women today do not follow Vogue as their fashion bible, not every woman followed the dictated fashion to the letter. Older and more well-endowed women must not have buried the corset, just did their best to emulate that which made them feel in fashion. On a costuming note, I attended the Friends of the English Regency Assembly this past weekend where one of the featured events was a costuming lecture given by Robin Pavlovsky, costume and textile historian for the Fashion Institute of Design and Merchandising (FIDM), Los Angeles. She had an undergarment called a corset slip, great for those of the well-endowed bust. It was a lightly boned garment of heavy drill with hooks in the back having an attached slip. This is featured in the Hunniset book "Period Costume for Stage and Screen." Robin mentioned something else very interesting regarding dresses: The skirts were "cheated" on the bodices, that is, the bodice was not cut to exactly under the bust, but a little higher, in order that the skirt fabric would hang past the stomach rather than have to drape over it. This avoids the fabric sitting on and accentuating the tummy, It is very hard to describe this in writing; I hope I have gotten the point across. I just wore my first Regency gown and certainly would not wear it without a corset (being large busted) in order to avoid the droopy look. My friend constructed hers in such a manner that she would be supported by the garment (a muslin gown with and overdress) and was then able to wear it sans corset. Regards, Lisa ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Mar 1996 00:04:49 -0500 From: PiranhaBB@aol.com Subject: Regency Assembly I have posted a page on my web site showing some images taken at the Friends of the English Regency Assembly. The address is: http://users.aol.com/piranhabb/regency.html Enjoy! Lisa ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Mar 1996 05:28:14 -0800 From: gwjchris@ix.netcom.com (Bill and Glenna Christen) Subject: Marital Status and Mode of Dress Fran... I tried to reply directly to you, but it bounced. Since you haven't reposted to get your address again I'm sending it to you via the list. Someone else might have some insights to my question as well. Thanks for your input! You wrote: >There is a great deal of evidence in original sources that married and >single women were expected to dress differently, independently of age. >I should probably consider writing an article on this. Please do, and let me know where you get it published! >I suggest you check out the available dress advice, compare it to how women dress in period novels, and see what you come up with. None of my etiquette books of the American Civil War period that give advice on dressing (many do) indicate marital status differences. I will, of course, continue reading any diaries that come to hand. I am being sent a photocopy of Beadles' Dressmaking Manual from 186? (I have the exact title wrong too!) I hope to learn a great deal from there as well. Any other suggestions? FYI, a tour guide at a site I was volunteering at once informed the public and me that I was married because I was wearing black stockings. (She missed the fact that I was dressed for a funeral!) According to her married women wore black stockings and single women wore white. She couldn't give me a source for this "factoid," but I have period sources that discuss a wide variety of stocking colors. The only specific age related comment was that pink was only appropriate for young ladies in the bloom of youth. I look forward to your proposed article as well as any suggestions for further research of my own. Glenna Jo Christen gwjchris@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ End of H-Costume Digest V4 #72 ****************************** A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, send the command lines: unsubscribe h-costume-digest subscribe h-costume end in the body of a message to majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com. Thanks and enjoy the list!