From: owner-h-costume-digest (H-Costume Digest) To: h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Subject: H-Costume Digest V4 #74 Reply-To: h-costume Sender: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Errors-To: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk H-Costume Digest Tuesday, March 19 1996 Volume 4, Number 74 Compilation copyright (C) 1996 Diane Barlow Close and Gretchen Miller Use in whole prohibited. Individual articles are the property of the author. Seek permission from that author before reprinting or quoting elsewhere. Important Addresses: Send submissions to: h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com (or reply to this message). Adds/drops/archives: majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com Real, live person: h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Topics: Re: bleaching (was chlorophyl+Linen) Re: new dye? -Reply Re: Marital Status and Mode of Dress -Reply Re: new dye? [none] Snowshill Manor Re: H-Costume Digest V4 #72 Victorian costume for married vs single women Hennins. Re: H-Costume Digest V4 #73 Pilgrim Shells Re: bleaching (was chlorophyl+Linen) Re: Pilgrim Shells Re: Washing Linen Marbling re marbleing fabric Re: H-Costume Digest V4 #72 Re:dyeing linen Lining for Doublet Hennins. -Reply ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 18 Mar 1996 17:43:00 -0500 From: Booboopies@aol.com Subject: Re: bleaching (was chlorophyl+Linen) Deb, Then they'd be quite comfortable with the pink tinge I've gotten using clorox on linen. Karen ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Mar 1996 17:45:43 -0500 From: Booboopies@aol.com Subject: Re: new dye? -Reply Don't know if marblizing on fabric is the same as marblizing paper, but with paper it's done with wheat paste and oil-based paints. They definitely are not water-soluble. It's great fun. To get the proper effect you should use a perm pick (formerly known as afro combs). Karen ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Mar 1996 17:50:51 -0500 From: Booboopies@aol.com Subject: Re: Marital Status and Mode of Dress -Reply I have noticed in 18th century paintings where matronly women wear their caps with lappets either buttoned or tied but young women wear theirs tied on top of their heads or loose. These are upper class women. Is there any significance or am I clutching at straws? Also Moravian women wore different colored ribbons to indicate their status. I think, but don't hold me to this, that single women wore blue ribbons, and marriaged women wore pink. Widows may have worn white. I probably don't have the colors right, but I know this was the custom. Karen ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Mar 1996 16:03:58 -0700 From: Sharon Bolton Subject: Re: new dye? >On Mon, 18 Mar 1996, Lizzie wrote: > >> I was speaking with a friend of mine and she has heard of a new >> dye for marblizing clothing. She described it as... "this dye floats on >> top of water and you swirl it around to create the marble effect. Then >> you dip your garment into the dyeand it comes out marblized." Wether or >> not this does exsist is what i would like to know. If it does what is it >> called and where could you find it. Believe it or not, I think QVC carries it. I don't see another craft hour listed for March on the program guide, but you could call their customer service number 1-800-345-1212 and see if they can find the product listing for you. The product I'm thinking of is a paint, not a dye. But as far as I know, marbelizing is always done with paint, not dye. BTW, if QVC has it you can probably find it in large craft stores or art supply stores. Sharon in Phoenix ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Mar 1996 22:19:29 -0500 From: corbie@radix.net (Corbie) Subject: [none] Deb Baddorf writes, "re: the comment that commercial bleach adds a blue tint: Some time back, probably on this list, I read that the blue tint is added ON PURPOSE, because we Americans think a slight blue tint makes a garment look whiter. AND ... that this is not so in Europe, where their commercial bleach products have a slight PINK tint added. Apparently Europeans have been conditioned to think that a slight pink tint looks whiter. Now back to your grass & chlorophyl ...." ===== I heard the same thing from my Mom, who has relatives living in Italy (they're German, actually, though) -- except she said that they think yellow means it's clean. My thought on this is that it might come from the ancient practice of washing or fulling clothes in urine (the ammonia, you know)... - -- Corbie ------------------------------ Date: 18 Mar 96 13:45:00 GMT From: Mrs C S Yeldham Subject: Snowshill Manor Snowshill Manor is in the Cotswolds in England, in a village called Snowshill which is south of Broadway, just off the A44 (I'm not sure of the county, could be Gloucestershire, could be Oxfordshire) and is a lovely house . If you are interested in the "over 2000 items of costume and accessories, mainly from the 18th and 19th centuries, including under and foundation garments and accessories", used in Nancy Bradfields Costume in Detail and Janet Arnolds Patterns of Fashion, then see the contact below Appointments must be made in advance to see the collection and there will be a charge. For further information, including a catalogue index if required, please contact Gillian Archer Curator Snowshill Costume Collection Berrington Hall Leominster Herefordshire HR6 0DW Caroline ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Mar 1996 23:06:29 -0500 (EST) From: GINA@delphi.com Subject: Re: H-Costume Digest V4 #72 Hi All, As the subject of washing linen continues to seem to merit air time, I thought I might as well give the final results of having washed my *first* linen. My original purchase was exactly 6 yards of 49" wide pure Belgian Linen. I stitched the two ends together, to make a large loop. This was a trick that was suggested on the Textile Arts Forum for fulling wool. I figured that it would help prevent too much ravel-damage to the ends. And it did. In the final wash however, the seam (5/8") did give way a little, but it did seem that the damage was much less than might have been expected without it. After trimming away the damaged ends, which amounted to no more than 2" total, I spritzed with a sprayer bottle and ironed with a *not-too-hot* iron. I am pleased to say that there was very little wrinkling. I imagine this to be due to the effects of the dryer. Still and all, it took a good long while to press it all. After pressing, I carefully measured my yardage. I ended up with 5-1/3 yards in length, by 47-1/2" in width. I am not a mathemetician, so I cannot tell you what percent this would be. But clearly I lost about 2/3 yd/ of fabric...more if you include the 1-1/2" X 6 yard strip along the selvage. If my math is correct I would estimate this to be another 1/4 yd. So, nearly a full yard out of six. Not too bad. But it was well worth the sacrafice, because the resulting product is WONDERFUL!! Just the best to sew with. A lovely hand, soft, and supply, and nice slubby texture that looks superbly period for Medieval tunic! I can't wait to get my hands some more. As a side note/question...does anyone here know anything about dying linen? What is the best, most permanent type of dye? Can one use the Rit dye concentrate in bottles, or is something other needed? Would be interested in any input. So there you have it. Hope it is of some interest, or use. - -Jocasta ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Mar 1996 20:26:22 -0800 (PST) From: Allan Terry Subject: Victorian costume for married vs single women Glenna, One of the main places to look for differences between the dress of married and single Victorian women (who might be the same age) is descriptions of trousseau items, in both fashion advice and novels. Some novels also describe the bride giving away clothes she had worn when single, usually soon before the wedding. The trousseau was not merely a celebration of a happy event with new clothes, nor merely an economic contribution to the couple. Nor did it consist entirely of underclothes and household linens. It provided the bride with a wardrobe (as extensive and expensive as her family could afford) suitable for her new status. Another Victorian custom was to dress sisters in a family alike, even as adults. A woman did not keep this up after she married and entered her new family. Sometimes different fashion advice was given to young unmarried ladies versus young married ones, apart from the trousseau. In particular, check descriptions of evening dress. This information is scattered in many original sources and you will have to hunt around for it. I'm working long hours right now and really do not have the time to do custom research for you. I hope I've answered all your questions. Fran Grimble ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 00:32:14 -0600 (CST) From: The Espresso Pegasus! Subject: Hennins. I have come across conflicting sources on those pointy hats (hennins) of the 1420's?... I have seen in illustrations that they are big veiled cones, and I have been also told that they just plain didn't exist, and then I know people who claim to have seen them, and that they were *really* only 5 inch diameter at the bottom, and balanced with a skullcap, and counterbalanceing wires/veils.. I see a few in the art. but not many.. and just about every Disney Princess has worn one as a staple piece of headwear. Any ideas on what the dimensions were, how they balanced?.. were they made of metals?(decorated metals?)? were they veiled?... did they exist?... Thanks! Sarahj ______________________.oO*Oo._______________________ You Can Fret Me, But You Cannot Play Upon Me--Hamlet ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 96 10:17:15 GMT From: Alan Braggins Subject: Re: H-Costume Digest V4 #73 > > As far as how the bleaching process works, the sunlight oxydizes the > water in the fabric. (That's why detergents with bleach have names > like "Oxydol" etc.) This process works only on wet fabric. If you lay > dry white fabrics out in the sun for a long time (days) the fabric will > start to turn yellow instead of white! Oxydized water is hydrogen peroxide (which then probably oxydizes the fabric). The air should have a slightly higher oxygen content close to plants in sunlight (assuming your linen lets enough light through to the grass underneath), so the chlorophyll could actually affect this reaction, indirectly. Extracting chrophyll in alcohol and applying directly probably just gives you green grass stains. > re: the comment that commercial bleach adds a blue tint: > Some time back, probably on this list, I read that the blue > tint is added ON PURPOSE, because we Americans think a > slight blue tint makes a garment look whiter. > AND ... that this is not so in Europe, where their commercial > bleach products have a slight PINK tint added. Apparently > Europeans have been conditioned to think that a slight pink tint > looks whiter. The bottle of bleach under my kitchen sink has a slightly pink tint when you pour it out of the bottle - I've no idea if it would leave a pink tint on fabric - however washing powder commercials advertise a "blue whiteness" (or used to) (and also commonly have fluorescing agents which give a blue tint in daylight). ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 22:33:33 +1100 From: simonm@hunterlink.net.au (Simon Markatcheff) Subject: Pilgrim Shells Hi again, (my..two posts in two days, I'll be losing my lurker status if I don't watch out) Speaking of Mont Saint Michel it just occurred to me that having visited the Abbey there I could legitimately decorate my husband's new cloak with a Pilgrim's shell. Does anyone have any information on what sort of shell (was it a scallop shell?) and whether it was usually a real shell or an embroidered or appliqued shell that was displayed. Any and all information would be wonderful as all I know is that they existed. Are there any references on the subject? (Could you include ISBN numbers if possible as it's occasionally difficult to track down books over here without them), With Thanks Rowena ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 05:42:42 -0800 From: gwjchris@ix.netcom.com (Bill and Glenna Christen) Subject: Re: bleaching (was chlorophyl+Linen) You wrote: >re: the comment that commercial bleach adds a blue tint: >this is not so in Europe, where their commercial bleach products have >a slight PINK tint added. Apparently Europeans have been conditioned to think that a slight pink tint looks whiter. That's what fabric "blueing" was for, to get the yellow tinge out of white fabrics to make them look whiter. How many of us on the list are old enough to remember the "fad" back in the late 1950's or early '60's for gray haired women to tint their hair pink? I remember blue hair from before that and some "mature" women still add blue rinses to their gray or white hair to tone down the yellowish tinge that often occurs. (Only a bit off topic...We could be doing 1950's revivals!) Glenna Jo (of the increasingly gray hair) Christen gwjchris@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 08:24:48 -0600 (CST) From: Teresa Shannon Subject: Re: Pilgrim Shells Pilgrims badges differed according to the site visited. The shell, and particularly the scallop shell you are thinking of was the pilgrim's badge for the THE most visited pilgrimage site, St. James of Compostela. So unless you've been to Compostela you can't wear the scallop shell. Other sites had different badges things, palm fronds, bottles, etc. The most famous pilgrimage site in England was Canterbury for Beckett, vials of blood were common from this. I am sure there are references to this information, none of which I have on me. Perhaps some tourist information you got from Mount Saint Michael contains it. Teresa > > Speaking of Mont Saint Michel it just occurred to me that having visited the > Abbey there I could legitimately decorate my husband's new cloak with a > Pilgrim's shell. Does anyone have any information on what sort of shell (was > it a scallop shell?) and whether it was usually a real shell or an > embroidered or appliqued shell that was displayed. Any and all information > would be wonderful as all I know is that they existed. Are there any > references on the subject? (Could you include ISBN numbers if possible as > it's occasionally difficult to track down books over here without them), > > With Thanks > Rowena > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 96 08:29:00 CST From: "Lassman, Linda" Subject: Re: Washing Linen Roxy Barber writes: (snip) > Iron until "bone dry" before disturbing each section and it will wrinkle less. If you let the fabric cool before you move it, this will also help reduce wrinkles--this is the rationale behind the "Permanent Press" dryer cycle--the thermostat allows the garments to cool before the tumbler stops, thereby eliminating wrinkles. The same thing holds true when you're setting creases into wool--let the crease lie undisturbed until it's cool and it will set better. - Linda Lassman Winnipeg, Manitoba ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 06:35:11 -0800 From: marion@icom.ca (Marion) Subject: Marbling There is/was a mailing list for marbling. majordomo@southwind.net subscribe marble Marion in Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 06:35:30 -0800 From: Stephen & Roxanne Coslett Subject: re marbleing fabric There is a commercial source for fabric dyes, paints and clothing blanks called "Dharma Trading Co." They have a catalog that you can request for at no charge the phone # is-1-800-542-5227. In page 18 of their catalog there are instructions for marbleing fabric. I don't work for this company! Just thought you could use the info. Hope it helps Roxanne Coslett Roxanne's Creations Portales, NM ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 06:38:36 -0800 From: aleed Subject: Re: H-Costume Digest V4 #72 > As a side note/question...does anyone here know anything about dying > linen? What is the best, most permanent type of dye? Can one use the Rit > dye concentrate in bottles, or is something other needed? Would be interested > in any input. Dying linen is a pain, when you use natural dyes--even cochineal and indigo don't take as well on linen as they do on silk or wool, even when the linen's been thoroughly mordanted. That's what my dyer friend told me, anyway. I think modern chemical dyes would be easier to use and have a longer-lasting effect. Drea ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 09:11:04 -0700 From: kmills Subject: Re:dyeing linen The Dharma catalog should also list dyes that are suitable for dyeing linen. The staff is very helpful with phone questions about products and techniques and never make you feel like a dope (which is a mighty nice thing for those of us who sometimes are!). Adios, K.P. Mills ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 11:11:24 -0800 From: medieval@muskoka.com (Stephen & Krista Fraser) Subject: Lining for Doublet Greetings! I come again asking for more help! (wow, what else is new :) ) I've been asked to make a 16th Century Doublet with tie on sleeves out of suede. What would be an appropriate lining for such an animal? The gent I'm making this for also speaks of slits in the doublet that would display a velvet lining. How would this be achieved (ie. would I line the suede with velvet, and how should the slits be made, look, etc.) Also...a concern I have is what happens to his shirt if the doublet were to get wet. Would the colours from the garment run and ruin his shirt? If so, is there any way to avoid this happening (besides staying out of the rain??) Thanks in advance for your replies as they are always very helpful to me in my quest for making period garb. Krista medieval@muskoka.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 11:14:41 -0800 From: Jan Rosenthal Subject: Hennins. -Reply "Outline of English Costume" by Doreen Yarwood says, "Women's headdresses of the 15th century were very varied; they were impracticable and unsuitable but often more elegant and attractive. In general, they could be divided into four types: the reticulated, the turban, the heart-shaped and the hennin. All could be worn with a veil and all entirely concealed the hair, which was plucked at the nape and on the temples to make sure of this. . . .The general trend was for wide headdresses in the 1420s and 1430s and tall headdresses like the hennin in the 1450s and 1460s. Turbans and heart-shaped headdresses were padded rolls covered in velvet or silk, decorated with jewels and pearl ropes and enveloped by a veil. The hennin appeared in various patterns: the commonest was the steeple hennin, a dunce's cap covered in brocade, fronted by a folded band of black velvet and held in place by a frontlet of black velvet visible only as a loop on the forehead. The whole headdress was generally draped in a long, transparent veil. A truncated form was more usual toward 1480: this often had a wired butterfly veil in two or three wings." Bruhn and Tilke's "A Pictorial History of Costume" shows ladies wearing the "Burgundian steeple cap" and describes it as being decorated with a veil of fine linen. JR jan.rosenthal@metc.state.mn.us "Whatever diminishes the sense of superiority in men makes them more manly, brotherly, and pleasant to have about." Frances Willard, 1895 ------------------------------ End of H-Costume Digest V4 #74 ****************************** A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, send the command lines: unsubscribe h-costume-digest subscribe h-costume end in the body of a message to majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com. Thanks and enjoy the list!