From: owner-h-costume-digest (H-Costume Digest) To: h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Subject: H-Costume Digest V4 #75 Reply-To: h-costume Sender: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Errors-To: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk H-Costume Digest Wednesday, March 20 1996 Volume 4, Number 75 Compilation copyright (C) 1996 Diane Barlow Close and Gretchen Miller Use in whole prohibited. Individual articles are the property of the author. Seek permission from that author before reprinting or quoting elsewhere. Important Addresses: Send submissions to: h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com (or reply to this message). Adds/drops/archives: majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com Real, live person: h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Topics: Re: H-Costume Digest V4 #74 Re: H-Costume Digest V4 #74 Re: new dye? Re: Lining for Doublet Marbling asbestos Re: Pilgrim Shells Dye for Marbelling (Fwd) new&young cosumers & authenticity re: marbling --Pro Chemical Re: Victorian costume for married vs single women Re: Pilgrim Shells Re: Pilgrim Shells Re: Costume Resources Marbelizing/new dye Re: Marbelizing/new dye Historic Costume Newsletter Kinsale Cloak Pattern hennins Great American Pattern Co. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 12:32:29 -0800 From: Susan Fatemi Subject: Re: H-Costume Digest V4 #74 re: dying linen, etc. Let me second (or third) the recommendation for Dharma trading. They have eveerything, including books, helpful staff, clothing blanks, etc. Procion fiber-reactive dye *chemically* bonds to the fiber itself, so even difficult fabrics like linen can be dyed (haven't tried it myself, bu that's the theory) I don't know why anybody bothers with stuff like RIT (well, i never had any success with it, and then I found Procion) Can't wait to see what a 16th c. suede doublet should be lined with, tho' velvet seems an odd choice. Whatever material is chosen, if it is pre-washed first (maybe a couple of times) it shouldn't run, but yuo might also want to stay away from reds and dark colors. (yes, you can wash and dry velvet, wool, most silks, in machines!) Susan Fatemi susanf@eerc.berkeley.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 96 15:10:36 -0600 (CST) From: textile@airmail.net (AnnMarie Wilson) Subject: Re: H-Costume Digest V4 #74 AGREED! I've used Dharma as a source for many years now. I use the Deka Silk dyes for my linen work.... comes out wonderfully! No mixing, no additives, no chemicals... set the color in the oven!!!!! They're good people.. Annie The Journey is not the Adventure... The Destination is not the Adventure... LIFE is the Adventure! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 16:26:18 -0500 From: RBarber854@aol.com Subject: Re: new dye? Quilters have been playing with marbling of fabric for quite a while. You may try asking in one of the on-line quilt groups. As far as I can recall you use fabric paints, not dyes. Roxy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 13:37:16 -0800 From: aleed Subject: Re: Lining for Doublet For a doublet lining, satin (a heavy bridal satin) or a medium-weight linen would most likely have been used. There's a couple of leather doublets in Janet Arnold's book, and I know that at least one was lined in linen. A medium-weight silk might also have been used. Drea > I come again asking for more help! (wow, what else is new :) ) I've > been asked to make a 16th Century Doublet with tie on sleeves out of > suede. What would be an appropriate lining for such an animal? The > gent I'm making this for also speaks of slits in the doublet that > would display a velvet lining. How would this be achieved (ie. would > I line the suede with velvet, and how should the slits be made, look, > etc.) Also...a concern I have is what happens to his shirt if the > doublet were to get wet. Would the colours from the garment run and > ruin his shirt? If so, is there any way to avoid this happening > (besides staying out of the rain??) > > Thanks in advance for your replies as they are always very helpful to > me in my quest for making period garb. > > Krista > medieval@muskoka.com > > > - ------- End of Forwarded Message ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 17:36:06 -0500 From: michael.di.matteo@autodesk.com Subject: Marbling The list below has closed. >There is/was a mailing list for marbling. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 96 16:16 CST From: ROBERT@UIAMVS.WEEG.UIOWA.EDU Subject: asbestos I read in not at all scholarly source that Charlemagne had an asbestos table cloth, and Chinese royalty (time period not given) had removeable asbestos sleeves on their garments. (The source was _Spin Span Spun_, by Mabel Ross (I think); it is a collection of trivia of interest to spinners and weavers. I know of several errors in it, so I'm not sure about this information.) Has anyone heard of asbestos fabrics being used in these places? At any other times (other than the Pliny and Victorian references already given)? ****************************** Wendy Robertson Serials Cataloging University of Iowa (319) 335-5894 wendy-robertson@uiowa.edu ****************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 19:37:31 GMT From: db-cos@westmore.demon.co.uk (David Brewer) Subject: Re: Pilgrim Shells In message Teresa Shannon writes: > > Pilgrims badges differed according to the site visited. The shell, and > particularly the scallop shell you are thinking of was the pilgrim's > badge for the THE most visited pilgrimage site, St. James of Compostela. > So unless you've been to Compostela you can't wear the scallop shell. Several books on things medieval that I have read state that the scallop shell became a ubiquitous symbol of pilgrimage:- but I have yet to see any genuine evidence for this. Possibly it became a shorthand in illustration for pilgrimage because St. Iago (St. James) was the biggy. > > Speaking of Mont Saint Michel it just occurred to me that having visited the > > Abbey there I could legitimately decorate my husband's new cloak with a > > Pilgrim's shell. Does anyone have any information on what sort of shell (was > > it a scallop shell?) and whether it was usually a real shell or an > > embroidered or appliqued shell that was displayed. Any and all information > > would be wonderful as all I know is that they existed. Are there any > > references on the subject? (Could you include ISBN numbers if possible as > > it's occasionally difficult to track down books over here without them), Many books of archeological finds, including the ever-helpful "Dress Accessories" of the Museum of London series include a myriad varieties of small pewter badges, rarely larger than two inches in a particular dimension, some of which are ascribed to a particular site of pilgrimage. Others` are of more general religeous character or show some temporal alleigance (badges of Richard III that he distributed in York survive) or merely look pretty. - -- David Brewer ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 17:46:27 -0500 From: NeaDods@aol.com Subject: Dye for Marbelling I've marbellized fabric using Deka fabric paint thinned with just a touch of water. It worked quite nicely, especially if I used a plant mister to float the paint on top of the agar solution. Nea neadods@aol.com "Five days a week, my body is a temple. The other two, it's an amusement park." -- Jerry Doyle ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 18:28:49 +0000 From: "Keith & Heather Schenk" Subject: (Fwd) new&young cosumers & authenticity Forwarded message: From: Self To: h-costume@lunch.engr.shi.com Subject: new&young cosumers & authenticity Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 18:15:00 I'm not sure if this thread is long gone, but... I know of a Rev war unit that was very strict about what its soldiers wore to events. Clothing for both on the field and in camp were very specific. Everything had to be documented to the hilt. (This was a good trait) BUT, they did not seem to require their female members to follow the same strict guidelines. Their clothing was questionable as well as the fabric content. Even the way they wore their clothing was questionable. It really gave off the impression that the leaders\commanders of the unit (all male) didn't care that the women of the unit were not authentic. That's the real shame. Female interpration is just as important as Male. Yes, the roles we portray are different but since we are in a teaching-type position we owe it to the public (if not to the people we portray) to give them the truth. (At least what we know to be true, research is an on-going event) Over the past few years things have seemed to change. The women seem more concerned with authenticity and it shows. They are looking really good. I think communication was the key. Both between themselves and women of other units. Sharing information can be done even in the most trickiest of situations. Sorry for the book Heather kschenk@fast.net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 22:24:35 -0600 (CST) From: Kathy Whisler Subject: re: marbling --Pro Chemical Pro Chemical & Dye carries many useful items, including marbling supplies, in varying quantities. Their synthetic indigo comes in 2 oz jars all the way up to 10 lb drums, for example. They carry obscure brands and products, such as chemical (not heat) fixatives for fiber reactive dyes, industrial fabric softeners, and dyes of every class. I ordered from them a lot back when I was a textile major in art school. They have a toll-free number now, 1-888-2-BUY-DYE. (Note the new "888" exchange.) I hope this helps. Katharine Whisler Rush-Presbyterian-St. Luke's Medical Center On Mon, 18 Mar 1996, Kimberly Smay wrote: > I have not used them, but Pro Chemical and dye makes a fabric marbling > product. > the address is > p.o. box 14 > somerset, mass 02726 > (508) 676-3838 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 00:09:23 -0500 From: PFlemm1002@aol.com Subject: Re: Victorian costume for married vs single women Fran, I read your post to Glenna with interest. Do you have suggestions of specific novels that I may read for further insight? Thanks for the help! Trudi Flemming PFlemm1002@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 21:30:38 -0700 From: savaskan@electriciti.com (Julie Adams) Subject: Re: Pilgrim Shells > Does anyone have any information on what sort of shell (was >it a scallop shell?) and whether it was usually a real shell or an >embroidered or appliqued shell that was displayed. I have a photo of a Pilgrim's cape and sandals that I took at the Germinisches Nationalmuseum, Nurnberg. A large real scallop shell (about 5" diameter) is sewn on the left side at about mid upper arm height. Two small real scallop shells (about 1") cover the knot of the string used to tie the cape at the neck. The cape is dark navy blue wool (may have once been black) and was displayed over the hooded cloak shown in Janet Arnold's Patterns of fashion (circular cut with a pointed hood) which is a light gray. The dark blue cape is also circular cut and has a short upright mandarin collar. It does not close at the neck, but is open about 5" down the front. The cloak underneath closes down the front. On the discription of the display something was said about sandals being the footwear for Pilgrims (but my German is poor.) Julie Adams ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 11:22:02 +0000 (GMT) From: Dorothy Stein Subject: Re: Pilgrim Shells On Tue, 19 Mar 1996, Teresa Shannon wrote: > Pilgrims badges differed according to the site visited. The shell, and > particularly the scallop shell you are thinking of was the pilgrim's > badge for the THE most visited pilgrimage site, St. James of Compostela. > So unless you've been to Compostela you can't wear the scallop shell. > St James was (is) the patron saint of pilgrims, so I thought anyone who went on a pilgrimage could wear his badge. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 06:53:08 -0600 (CST) From: "Rachel E. Mast" Subject: Re: Costume Resources On Fri, 15 Mar 1996, Karen & Ricky Dick wrote: > > The WCC lists over 1,000 companies that carry costumes, costume accessories, > unusual clothing, vintage clothing, and contemporary and vintage shoes. Also > the raw materials to make all kinds of costumes (historical, mascot, sci-fi, > etc.): fabrics, sewing supplies, leather, plastics, corset parts, patterns, > hats/hat forms, reference books, feathers, rhinestones, jewelry/jewelry > parts, wigs, makeup, latex prosthetics, chainmail rings...you name it, it's > probably in there somewhere. All companies are fully cross-referenced by > geographic area and by topic (so you can find all the stores in your > area--or one you are visiting--or find all the places that carry a > particular item). > > The WCC also lists museums that have frequent costume displays, publishers > of costuming books, and costume-related periodicals (magazines, newsletters) > and organizations. There are shopping guides for major U.S. cities, and > several pages of "design aids"--bodies you can trace over to design on if > you can't draw the human form. > > The WCC has existed since 1983, and is updated every year (sometimes every > other year) so information stays current. > > Hope this helps, > > Karen Dick, Managing Editor > Whole Costumer's Catalogue > > > > Karen, I have just two questions. What is WCC and and how can I get it? And how can I get your catalogue. Do I have to send the check with my request? Thanks Rachel Mast rmast@risc.usi.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 07:48:17 -0600 (CST) From: "Maria A. Sanders" Subject: Marbelizing/new dye I have used an enamel based (it was like a very think oil paint) called Magic Dip. I bought it at Micheal's craft store in Kansas City MO last year right before Thanksgiving. I don't know if it's still available. The box called it a marbelizing paint and said that it could be used on several types of materials including fabric. It runs about $2.50 for a small jar (if you wear contact lenses, it's about the size of the small glass bottles that they send brand new lenses in. Sorry but I can't remember the fluid weight). I didn't try it on fabric, but glass and it left a pebbly texture. You have to first condition the water with 20-mule team borax, then drop the stuff drop by drop into the water and the water is properly conditioned when the paint seems to "disappear". Working with the dip is horribly messy, stain everything (including your hands, it took me 2 days to get my nails clean), and I could only get about 2 passes done, before I had to recondition the water and add more color because the paint that I had in there would eventually congeal and stick the sides of the bucket. Hope this helps. Maria ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Mar 96 08:48:10 -0600 (CST) From: textile@airmail.net (AnnMarie Wilson) Subject: Re: Marbelizing/new dye AHA! That s the name of the stuff I was talking about. Hated it!!!!!! awful, awful, awful.. annie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 09:31:24 -0600 (CST) From: Joe Lichtenstein Subject: Historic Costume Newsletter Does anyone know of a newsletter that just addresses historic costume? Not just articles on what was worn when but also how to make historic garments, places/groups to wear your garments, people involved in historic costuming, etc. I'm curious because I have not come across such a newsletter and am considering starting one. I would like to get some opinions on this from my fellow historic costumers. Thanks. Lezlie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 09:03:41 -0800 From: Dona Walzer Subject: Kinsale Cloak Pattern I am looking for a Kinsale cloak pattern for Lincoln's New Salem State Historic Site in Illinois. It was sold through Past Patterns and Amazon as a Harper House No. S207. It is no longer being distributed, and the village needs a copy. Does anyone know where I can get the pattern? Dona_Walzer@wiu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 12:08:07 -0500 From: Gaelscot@aol.com Subject: hennins Speaking of hennins, I am looking at the January picture of my 1996 Medieval Women calendar. It's a French illumination from the Roman de la Rose, and the calendar dates it only as 15th century. None of the ladies are wearing hennins, but their various headdresses ALL include that little loop of black over their foreheads. Three of the ladies are wearing something that looks like a French hood from the front, but luckily there is a side view so you can see that it is really a close-fitting cap with a lappet (not the right word, I can't think of it) on the front and a sort of cape thing on the back. All three are black. The other headdresses are sort of caps worn over unbound hair (1) or over cauls AND unbound hair (2). From this admittedly small sample, I would conclude that they are wearing some sort of hat underneath their headdresses to help hold them on, and that this might have been worn underneath many other hats as well as these and the afore-mentioned hennins. Does anyone know what it might be and how to make it? Gail Finke/gaelscot@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 12:34:04 -0500 From: EGerds@aol.com Subject: Great American Pattern Co. Does anyone have an address for this company, or know where they are? I sent an order to their P.O. Box, and it was returned "Box closed". I had only received the catalog a few months ago, and the P.O. Box was on the catalog. All help appreciated. (Has anyone else ordered from them???) Thank you, Liz ------------------------------ End of H-Costume Digest V4 #75 ****************************** A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, send the command lines: unsubscribe h-costume-digest subscribe h-costume end in the body of a message to majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com. Thanks and enjoy the list!