From: owner-h-costume-digest (H-Costume Digest) To: h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Subject: H-Costume Digest V4 #83 Reply-To: h-costume Sender: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Errors-To: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk H-Costume Digest Thursday, March 28 1996 Volume 4, Number 83 Compilation copyright (C) 1996 Diane Barlow Close and Gretchen Miller Use in whole prohibited. Individual articles are the property of the author. Seek permission from that author before reprinting or quoting elsewhere. Important Addresses: Send submissions to: h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com (or reply to this message). Adds/drops/archives: majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com Real, live person: h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Topics: RE: Felt hat blanks Many Thanks for the Information FW: FTP site for armory stuff & PATTERNS (fwd) Re: Tent cleaning The chain letter Re: 2 quick questions Art Nouveau Clothing (was: Misc) The chain letter leaky tents Subject: Shapes in Importance of Earnest Re: Tent cleaning Re: hoop skirts Re:patterns and questions Waterproofing was: Re: Tent cleaning tambour embroidery Re: Subject: Shapes in Importance of Earnest Re: tambour embroidery sewing machine for sale FWD>RE>patterns plus questi ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 27 Mar 96 15:55:11 PST From: Fred Meyer Subject: RE: Felt hat blanks Regarding felt hat blanks, try Manny's Millinery Supply Center 26 West 38th St New York, NY 10018 Fax 212-944-0178, Phone #212-840-2235/2236 They carry the felt "hoods" in a variety of colors and you can block to any shape. You can call for catalog, 2 are printed a year, Fall/Winter & Spring/ Summer. Have had good luck with variety and delivery. Hope this helps. Lena Meyer ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 10:30 -0800 (PST) From: Catherine.Keegan@ncal.kaiperm.org Subject: Many Thanks for the Information Thank you, everyone, for the amazing amount of information you sent me regarding hat blanks/hoods. I hope to make phone calls this Friday (my day off!) and do a little comparisson shopping. It will make for an interesting experiment, if nothing else. Catherine Keegan syscxk@ncal.kaiperm.org ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 15:08:41 -0600 (CST) From: "Maria A. Sanders" Subject: FW: FTP site for armory stuff & PATTERNS (fwd) The following came from the Kingdom of Calontir list (SCA) and I thought that it might of interest to you all out there who make armor.... Maria marias@comp.uark.edu - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 14:51:42 -0600 From: GYSGT P. Mason To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: FW: FTP site for armory stuff & PATTERNS I have talked to Iain DubhSpirag and he has created an anonymous FTP directory for armory articles & patterns. He does have access to a scanner so those who have patterns they would like see on the web but have no scanner capability can snail mail the patterns to the following address and he will scan and upload them: Iain DubhSpirag 519 North Ninth Street Murphysboro, IL 62966 The FTP is ftp://131.230.64.6 and the armory upload directory is /armour Hopefully this will become a benifit to armourers thruout the knowne worlde. Conall Fael pmason@dmc-emh1.stl.disa.mil ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 16:45:01 -0500 From: zorro@netdepot.com (David Marcus & Peggy Lamberson) Subject: Re: Tent cleaning In email on Wed, 27 Mar 1996 14:22:31 -0600 (CST), aric leibl wrote: | | All this talk about tents, cleaning, and being careful about the 'water | seal' makes me curious as to what people used before we had these fancy | chemicals we have now. Does anyone know, or did they just get soaked? | | Aric Leibl | | I don't know _everything_ that was used, but I know that fabric or paper treated with grease (animal fat) was one of the things used. The result was omething like the oriental paper umbrellas you still see. (Though I don't know what they use to make those currently). People also used greased paper for windows when they couldn't afford glass. Peggy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 16:02:41 -0600 (CST) From: The Jetdillo Subject: The chain letter Thanks for the info, folks...'s good to know none of the places I visit were handing out my e-mail address (was a bit concerned for a moment, even though I know they've more class than that). Kinda makes me wonder if he's hit other lists... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 17:38:29 -0600 (CST) From: "Sandra L. Waldrop" Subject: Re: 2 quick questions On Wed, 27 Mar 1996, The Jetdillo wrote: > Er, sorry only one this time, unfortunately off-topic. > > I received one of the lovely chain letters today and was trying to figure out > how my name got on this guy's list...so I was wondering if anyone else here > received the letter from Steve Ryder at udel.edu? > I got one of those too. I fired off a sharp reply with the whole mess attached, and deleted it. I don't remember who it was from, but that would explain where the twit got my name. Sandy Waldrop swaldrop@prairienet.org ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 18:47:24 -0500 From: Sanni1@aol.com Subject: Art Nouveau Clothing (was: Misc) In a message dated 96-03-27 13:03:53 EST, reaves@tuvok.marian.edu writes: > >1. Art Nouveau clothing: Someone asked for information, and here's a >wonderful reprint. Mohrbutter, Alfred. JUGENSTIL: DAS KLEID DER FRAU. >1985 rpt of 1094. Darmstadt: Alexander Koch. It's the only period book I >know of with models wearing the clothing of that movement. Photos of >color combinations are included. Many of the photos in this book along with a lot of other pictures of clothing and lace of this period are found in the German magazines "Dekorative Kunst" and "Kunst & Dekoration." They seem to appear only from 1901-04. If anyone is interested, e-mail me and I'll share what info I have. Sanni ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 18:49:35 -0700 (MST) From: cwood@primenet.com Subject: The chain letter >Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 16:02:41 -0600 (CST) >From: The Jetdillo >Subject: The chain letter >To: h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com >X-VMS-To: IN%"h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.COM" >Sender: owner-h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com >Precedence: bulk > > Thanks for the info, folks...'s good to know none of the places I visit >were handing out my e-mail address (was a bit concerned for a moment, even >though I know they've more class than that). Kinda makes me wonder if he's hit >other lists... > I got a chain letter too--but I couldn't figure out where it came from. Did it come via Costume and if so, how???? Confused and a bit concerned... Ysabeau ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Mar 96 02:41:54 UT From: "Susan Carter" Subject: leaky tents from one who has used those old style unwaterproofed tents made of canvas- they are NOT waterproof, I think it's surface tension or some such that keeps the water with the canvas as long as it's tight and smooth and you DON"T TOUCH IT !!! That's right, touch = drip. Try it some time, no tent needed just any old canvas drop/ground cloth will do ( I remember a very dry night under a half tent made of a truck tarp with wool army blankets to close the opening - they work too but you have to ignore the water running down the inside surface or turn out the lights!). Dry sleeping su ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 23:15:20 -0500 From: kl94ag@badger.ac.BrockU.CA (Kathleen Leggat) Subject: Subject: Shapes in Importance of Earnest >Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 17:37:49 GMT >From: DEJW@cableol.co.uk >Subject: Shapes in Importance of Earnest > *snip* > >I looked up a few references and found N Waugh "Corsets and Crinolines" to say >that 19C curves can only be achieved "through a lifetime of tightlacing". L >Barton in "Hist Cost for the Stage" says that in the late 19C "Too many 36 >busts were getting into 18 waists". Wow ! > *gloating time* My mother, in her youth, had a 36 inch bust and a 22 inch waist. I don't think it would have taken a great deal of lacing to achieve 18 inches. I'm inclined to think that larger waists are simply a step in evolution. (Yeah, okay, a bit off-topic) Kathleen (Catriona) "Hire array me ravysshed, swich richesse saugh I nevere. I hadde wonder what she was and whos wif she were. 'What is this womman,' quod I, 'so worthili atired?'' -William Langland _The Vision of Piers Plowman_ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1996 02:24:29 -0800 (PST) From: Conrad Hodson Subject: Re: Tent cleaning On Wed, 27 Mar 1996, aric leibl wrote: > > All this talk about tents, cleaning, and being careful about the 'water > seal' makes me curious as to what people used before we had these fancy > chemicals we have now. Does anyone know, or did they just get soaked? One thing they did was to paint the cloth with linseed oil, then cure it in the sun. This polymerizes the oil into a gummy sealer. It tends to stick to itself, and if stored tightly before it's fully cured can be a fire hazard due to spontaneous combustion, but it is waterproof. In the 19th Century (and maybe earlier, especially among tropical Indians?) cloth was also waterproofed with latex. Civil War "gum blankets" were painted with latex on one side, I've heard, to double as a poncho. Charles Goodyear's vulcanizing process, ca. 1830 I believe, made the latex less prone to stick to itself and other things, but even vulcanized latex can do this today if you're not careful to powder it. "Water seal" type products are mostly just a mineral wax (like paraffin) in a solvent such as xylene. The solvent evaporates (toxically, be careful) and leaves the wax behind in the cloth. Eventually, wear and tear works the wax out of the cloth, and you need to touch it up with more of the mix. Conrad Hodson ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1996 04:47:16 -0800 From: gwjchris@ix.netcom.com (Bill and Glenna Christen) Subject: Re: hoop skirts Deb... You wrote: >Do you find any difference (to the wearer) between a >skirt-type hoop skirt and a cage-type hoop skirt? The skirt moves in a slightly different manner that is hard to explain. Also my skirts lay over the cage more smoothly. The fact that the design, even for the round hoops throw more of the weight of the skirt to the back and the hoops are shorter (as the current research indicates they were) makes walking easier, especially up hills, etc. Last, but by no means least, I know I'm wearing a far more accurate garment than before and I made it myself! With my cage and my new corset I rather look forward to the next opportunity to demonstrate underpinnings. Now I don't have to explain what is wrong with my old hoops or what a cage would look like. Glenna Jo Christen gwjchris@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1996 08:58:48 -0500 From: RBarber854@aol.com Subject: Re:patterns and questions Erin, You replied>>starting out in this very expensive and time consuming hobby should (IMHO) be aware of what is typical and atypical in the period they are doing before they indulge. It has been my experience that beginners are more comfortable to start from a more mainstream representation, and venture into less travelled paths as their skills and experience grow. I encourage and advocate "atypical" representations of period clothing, but for preactical purposes I do not advocate a beginner to start with their first corset (which will be the basis of their entire wardrobe) to be "atypical" unless they have a clear reason for this decision.<< Thank you for that response,it appears to be sound advice for a beginner to remember! Sometimes there are so many voices and discussions on the list that things can seem a bit tangled. Roxy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1996 06:05:58 -0800 From: "Jennifer Kubenka" Subject: Waterproofing was: Re: Tent cleaning On 27 Mar 96 at 16:45, David Marcus & Peggy Lamberso wrote: > In email on Wed, 27 Mar 1996 14:22:31 -0600 (CST), aric leibl wrote: > | All this talk about tents, cleaning, and being careful about the > 'water | seal' makes me curious as to what people used before we had > these fancy | chemicals we have now. Does anyone know, or did they > just get soaked? | | Aric Leibl | | >I don't know _everything_ that > was used, but I know that fabric or paper treated with grease > (animal fat) was one of the things used. The result was omething > like the oriental paper umbrellas you still see. (Though I don't > know what they use to make those currently). > People also used greased paper for windows when they couldn't afford > glass. > Peggy A friend of mine made a leather pouch for my husband, and he treated it with some sort of animal fat, I believe. The thing hasn't turned rancid, which was what we were waiting to discover ot not, and is, in fact, very handy. It doesn't smell bad in any way, nor does it apparently smell like food to my cat. Jennifer, in Dallas ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1996 06:08:37 -0800 From: WRASaylor@aol.com Subject: tambour embroidery Does anyone know where I can get a tambour embroidery needle. Tambour embroidery is basically a chain stitch, except it is formed by punching a needle (about equal to a tiny latch hook) through the top of the fabric and pulling through the loop only. This allows metal threads to be used w/o stripping the metal from the core. The book I found this in claims a good embroideress can achieve hundreds of stitches a minute with this technique. Thanks - Rhodry wrasaylor@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1996 08:43:24 -0600 (CST) From: Joe Lichtenstein Subject: Re: Subject: Shapes in Importance of Earnest *gloating time* My mother, in her youth, had a 36 inch bust and a >22 inch waist. I don't think it would have taken a great deal of lacing to >achieve 18 inches. > > I'm inclined to think that larger waists are simply a step in evolution. > Kathleen (Catriona) I believe this "tiny waist thing" is more of a Victorian era fashion. I, too, used to believe larger waists were a step in evolution until I enlarged to scale some 18th century patterns taken off original garments....these garments had 30" waists!! Anyone else come across this when measuring original garments/patterns?? Lezlie ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1996 10:06:14 -0500 (EST) From: Staff - Michigan Health Promotion Clearinghouse Subject: Re: tambour embroidery On Thu, 28 Mar 1996 WRASaylor@aol.com wrote: > Does anyone know where I can get a tambour embroidery needle. > > Tambour embroidery is basically a chain stitch, except it is formed by > punching a needle (about equal to a tiny latch hook) through the top > of the fabric and pulling through the loop only. This allows metal > > Thanks - Rhodry wrasaylor@aol.com I 'm not sure from your description if this is what is now popularly known as Needle-Punch (Brand name Pretty Punch). My mom took it up in the late 80's. If the needle doesn't have to be historically correct, this might do it for you. I'm remebering this thing as plactic handled about the size of a ballpoint pen. Does that sound at all reasonalbe? Joyous M ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1996 07:28:42 -0800 From: "Dave A Uebele" Subject: sewing machine for sale Also posted to f-costume, apologies for people that see this twice. Posting for a friend of my parents. If interested, I can pass along contact information. E-mail me directly (daveu@sptddog.com) Bernina 1230 sewing machine for sale. Asking $950, barely used (the serger got more use). dave - -- Dave Uebele Spotted Dog Systems http://sptddog.com/daveu.html ------------------------------ Date: 28 Mar 1996 09:09:58 -0800 From: "Karen Lovejoy" Subject: FWD>RE>patterns plus questi Mail*Link( SMTP FWD>RE>patterns plus questions When I made my Elizabethan corset, I custom made it with a heavily boned extension for my lower back. It takes the weight of the hoops and skirts= off of my lower back and redistributes it. It has been a great boon as I hav= e a lot of lower back problems. It may not be correct, but the support I get= is more than worth the lack of period correctness. Just my opinion. - -------------------------------------- Date: 3/27/96 9:40 From: RBarber854@aol.com first a disclaimer--I=92m no expert! I have a question for all about the use of the word typical in conjunctio= n with fashion and historical reproductions. Do all historical reproduction= s have to be typical? Wouldn=92t some have dressed in an atypical fashion j= ust as we do now? I know =93learned=94 in my history of costume classes that eac= h era had a silhouette to follow, but also that fashion began changing rapidly. Wouldn=92t some have clung to the old or be bringing in the new? How is t= his addressed when presenting history to the public? May we only present the typical? Inquiring minds want to know, so let=92s have the arguments! On another note, Barbara and Patri Pugliese mention Past Patterns upcomin= g Madame Foy Skirt Supporting Corset. I am only a beginning pattern maker a= nd very interested in historical costume. I have not had a chance to dress i= n costume, and was wary of wearing a corset, being a comfort freak. I must = say though that I now have a Madame Foy and it is very comfortable. It is sid= e lacing which I think helps, plus the reed in the back which circles the h= ips sticks out just enough to support the hoop/bustle that I wear with it and puts the weight higher on the back and relieves the =93drag=94 of all the= fabric from the skirt. A boon to those with lower back problems. Just an opinion. Now for another question. I am a beginning pattern maker and costumer and would like opinions of the experts and the wearers of these fashions. Wha= t would you like me to learn and what would you like me to NOT learn? You c= an e-mail me direct at: RBarber854@aol.com Thanks.....Roxy Barber ------------------------------ End of H-Costume Digest V4 #83 ****************************** A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, send the command lines: unsubscribe h-costume-digest subscribe h-costume end in the body of a message to majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com. Thanks and enjoy the list!