From: owner-h-costume-digest (H-Costume Digest) To: h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Subject: H-Costume Digest V4 #85 Reply-To: h-costume Sender: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Errors-To: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk H-Costume Digest Monday, April 1 1996 Volume 4, Number 85 Compilation copyright (C) 1996 Diane Barlow Close and Gretchen Miller Use in whole prohibited. Individual articles are the property of the author. Seek permission from that author before reprinting or quoting elsewhere. Important Addresses: Send submissions to: h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com (or reply to this message). Adds/drops/archives: majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com Real, live person: h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Topics: tents, umbrellas Re: tents Re: tambour embroidery tambour hooks Re: Newsletter Update Re: Re[2]: hoop skirts Re: Newsletter Update Russian Dresses Egyptian Dress Re: Newsletter Update Re: FWD>RE>tambour embroidery Re: Newsletter Update Attention authors! 8-) Re: Tent cleaning Re: Tent cleaning Costume college masters need help with archives existence of textile mailing list? Foolish Question Re: Attention authors! 8-) Re: Tents, Rubber, Waterproofing, etc.,etc. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1996 16:47:23 -0800 From: Susan Fatemi Subject: tents, umbrellas Regarding tents and waterproofing. I don't know what the situation was in Europe, but Bedouing tents are made from goathair. Granted it doesn't rain much in the arab countries, but wool and its relatives are water resistant, and even when wool [clothing] becomes wet, it keeps its insulating properties. the yurts of Central Asia are wicker frameworks completely covered with thick felt pads. There is a tent covering, nowdays made from various materials. But the felt not only keeps out rain and snow, but fierce cold. Were medieval European tents made out of wool? I had one of those 'oriental" umbrellas. It smelled like it was covsered in cod liver oil. Distinctly fishy! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1996 21:11:23 -0500 From: BBrisbane@aol.com Subject: Re: tents For many years I camped in a large viking tent made of unwater-proofed twill; the pitch of the roof made the rain sheet off after it became damp. the only water that ever entered was during a seriously driving high wind storm. Creating a round or rectangular pavillian with a sharply pitched roof may give you the same physical effect. Good Luck! Brenda ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Mar 96 20:38:11 -0600 (CST) From: textile@airmail.net (AnnMarie Wilson) Subject: Re: tambour embroidery At 10:06 AM 3/28/96 -0500, Staff - Michigan Health Promotion >I 'm not sure from your description if this is what is now popularly known >as Needle-Punch (Brand name Pretty Punch). My mom took it up in the late >80's. If the needle doesn't have to be historically correct, this might >do it for you. I'm remebering this thing as plactic handled about the size >of a ballpoint pen. Does that sound at all reasonalbe? > >Joyous M > >This is not the same thing.... Tambour work usually involves beading processes... hooking from the reverse side. The stitches are locked like a chain stitch.. the thread doesn't ride above the fabric. Annie Just Living is Not Enough! One must have Sunshine, Freedom & a Little Flower... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1996 22:38:12 -0500 From: webalder@niagara.com (David Webb & Sheridan Alder) Subject: tambour hooks LACIS in California sells wooden-handled tambour hooks with brass fittings and a choice of hook sizes. Unofortunately I can't find their address in the heaps of paper which constitute my life, but I'm sure that information is in the archives. If you want to be a real keener, you can scour antique shows for years (like I did) for the real thing in ivory or mother-of-pearl. I (finally) found an ivory one c. 1800-1820, complete with screw- on top, and a screw-off bottom where an extra hook is secreted. Mine is similar to (but even prettier)the one shown in Plate 163 (3) in Gay Ann Roger's "An Illustrated History of Needlework Tools" ISBN 0-9622310-0-2. I saw another one last summer at a local dealer, but it may be sold by now. Elizabeth Ham, c. 1810, was able to complete "tambouring" a gown for her sister in one evening. I've got an illustration of how to tambour, if anyone would like it. Sorry, I can't resist gloating over my hard-won acquisition! Sheridan Alder webalder@niagara.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 02:09:13 -0500 From: Ngelina@aol.com Subject: Re: Newsletter Update Posting this to the list because I'd be interested in seeing everyone else's answers, too. What would I like in a costume newsletter: 1. _No_ survey or overview articles. We know what a Victorian silhouette looks like: if we want a refreser, there are books in libraries, in print, on our own shelves.... Costume articles in other-ly focused zines tend toward this sort of thing, too. 2. Narrow-focus articles on one type of garment: comparisons of contemporaneous examples (width of Victorian skirts, for instance) or tracing the development of a type of garment over a period of time. Detailed analysis of a single example, with lots of pictures showing different angles and construction details. (Remember, if we see something we like, we're going to try to make it!) Measurements of actual garments; clear line drawing showing lines of construction. 3. Please concentrate on in-depth research we _can't_ duplicate: if someone has access to primary materials (their own vintage collection, a museum collection, limited-access library material), we'd love to hear what they've turned up. 4. Write-ups of projects with pattern shapes we can draft up (Cutter's Research Journal is great for this & we love thier stuff.) 5. Listings of costume exhibits around the country, including whether they have a catalog and how to get a copy of same. Best of luck--I'm waiting for the first issue! Karen Allen ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 05:54:25 -0800 From: gwjchris@ix.netcom.com (Bill and Glenna Christen) Subject: Re: Re[2]: hoop skirts STacy W. You wrote: >Are there any patterns (commercial or otherwise) or material sources for making >a cage crinoline? I unfortunately don't have access to an original to copy. I tried to reply to Stacy directly, but it bounced. Perhaps someone else on the list might find this useful... If you live a reasonable distance from Gettysburg, PA or are able to spend a weekend there, Carolanne Schmidt of the Genteel Arts Academy teaches a workshop in cage crinoline making at The Needle & Thread fabric store. Not only do you get a background on cage crinolines, learn the skills to create your own by making one, you also leave with instructions for making 7 different styles of cages. Her classes aren't cheap, but they are well worth it IMO. Her address is: Genteel Arts P.O. Box 3014 Gettysburg, PA 17325 She teaches a variety of courses related to Civil War clothing construction. She is extremely knowledgeable and is very accomplished at sharing her knowledge in a very comprehensible manner. She's also a delightful person to know :-)!!! Needle and Thread also has all the materials needed to make a cage. Also, Past Patterns is in the process of producing a pattern for a "button on" covered hoop. I don't know when it will be out, but it looks very interesting to me as it is essentially 2 hoops in 1. A short "work hoop" and a longer fuller hoop. As with all PP, this is based on an original. I don't know how common these were of course, but it is an interesting option. Glenna Jo Christen gwjchris@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 06:04:03 -0800 From: gwjchris@ix.netcom.com (Bill and Glenna Christen) Subject: Re: Newsletter Update You wrote: >What would I like in a costume newsletter: > >1. _No_ survey or overview articles. We know what a Victorian silhouette >looks like... >2. Narrow-focus articles on one type of garment... >3. Please concentrate on in-depth research we _can't_ duplicate... >4. Write-ups of projects with pattern shapes we can draft up... >5. Listings of costume exhibits around the country, including whether they >have a catalog and how to get a copy of same... I agree 100% with everything above (including the parts I snipped to shorten the message!) Glenna Jo Christen gwjchris@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 08:27:49 -0600 (CST) From: Mary M Spila Subject: Russian Dresses Marsha, Could/Would you post the bibliographic info on the book you were discussing. I would love to ILL it. Thanks - Mary ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 08:57:16 -0600 (CST) From: "Rachel E. Mast" Subject: Egyptian Dress A friend of mine is interested in egyptian clothing and she asked me if I could help. I've worn out my resourses. She wants info on jewlry and clothing for both men and women. If I can get some good books to help her I'll need to know names. Thankyou Sasha ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 09:22:26 -0600 From: mkwhitak@facstaff.wisc.edu (Kathy Whitaker) Subject: Re: Newsletter Update >>1. _No_ survey or overview articles. We know what a Victorian silhouette >>looks like... I have to say that I *would* like to see overview articles, unless this magazine is intended only for the professional who has studied clothing from all time periods and all places for many years. I would be very interested in learning about some of the styles I haven't studied, and an overview, even brief, would give me an idea of what to look for. I think this would make the magazine more interesting to the novice or non-professional as well as to someone who already knows about all the styles. It would also make the magazine a teaching tool that you could use to help other people who are just learning. I like to keep magazines and articles to refer back to on a number of subjects. I'm not advocating focusing the entire thing at the least experienced person, just allowing for the different levels of skill and knowledge in possible readers. The range would also give less experienced costumers something to feel comfortable with as well as something to aspire to. >>2. Narrow-focus articles on one type of garment... > >>3. Please concentrate on in-depth research we _can't_ duplicate... > >>4. Write-ups of projects with pattern shapes we can draft up... > >>5. Listings of costume exhibits around the country, including whether they >>have a catalog and how to get a copy of same... > I think the rest of the ideas are really good. Kathy Whitaker mkwhitak@facstaff.wisc.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 07:25:04 -0800 (PST) From: Sue Toorans Subject: Re: FWD>RE>tambour embroidery I got my tambour needle (with multible sizes of heads) from Lacis in Berkeley, California. They have an email address - staff@lacis.com. Their phone is (510) 843-7178. Standard no association with them disclaimer. Sue I am *NOT* a rabid feminist! I had my shots last year. On 28 Mar 1996, Karen Lovejoy wrote: > Mail*Link( SMTP FWD>RE>tambour embroidery > > I too have been looking for a tambour needle. If you ever did those latch > hook rugs that were popular in the 70's, a tambour needle is similar to the > latch hook except much smaller. It has a hook to catch the thread on and a > little latch to keep it from slipping off. They are very small, about the > size of an embroidery needle eye and I have been looking for one for years. > I'd love to hear if anyone knows where I could get one. > > -------------------------------------- > Date: 3/28/96 7:13 > From: Staff - Michigan Health Promot > On Thu, 28 Mar 1996 WRASaylor@aol.com wrote: > > > Does anyone know where I can get a tambour embroidery needle. > > > > Tambour embroidery is basically a chain stitch, except it is formed by > > punching a needle (about equal to a tiny latch hook) through the top > > of the fabric and pulling through the loop only. This allows metal > > > > Thanks - Rhodry wrasaylor@aol.com > > > I 'm not sure from your description if this is what is now popularly known > as Needle-Punch (Brand name Pretty Punch). My mom took it up in the late > 80's. If the needle doesn't have to be historically correct, this might > do it for you. I'm remebering this thing as plactic handled about the size > of a ballpoint pen. Does that sound at all reasonalbe? > > Joyous M > > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 12:11:04 -0500 From: Heidelbaer@aol.com Subject: Re: Newsletter Update when regarding the possibilities of a newsletter concerning historic costumes, please think at people outside america, who are interested in this subject without being connected to any well-equipped american library. I myself would be interested in such a newsletter, too. Ch. Buehler, Heidelberg Heidelbaer@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 16:27:01 -0800 From: polsons@sirius.com (The Polsons) Subject: Attention authors! 8-) Hi everyone - this is a general message to the list. Are you a writer? I can use well-written, well-researched articles on historic costuming and, believe it or not, I *pay* for them! 8-) If you're interested in contributing to Recreating History magazine, a newish international living history publication which has a regular costuming column, please let me know and I'll be happy to e-mail you writer's guidelines. I'm also happy to answer any questions you may have here or via private e-mail. Thanks for your time, and I look forward to many interesting responses! 8-) ****************************************************************** Willow Polson polsons@sirius.com Recreating History magazine "The Complete Resource for Living History Enthusiasts of All Eras" ****************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 23:48:54 -0800 From: Veda Crewe Joseph Subject: Re: Tent cleaning Isn't cleaning the tent what you do when you disapear into your tent of an afternoon with your sweetie? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Mar 1996 04:53:39 -0800 (PST) From: Rebecca LeDock Subject: Re: Tent cleaning No, that's a nap. Cleaning the tent is when you don't come out of the tent until Noon. Rebecca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Mar 1996 11:16:01 -0500 From: Ladnier@aol.com Subject: Costume college masters I just found out that I will be graduating a semester early, the beginning of December, 1996. Does anyone know of a good college that has a masters program for Costume History? Please Email me direct. Penny E. Ladnier Virginia Commonwealth University s0peladn@cabell.vcu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Mar 1996 11:21:10 -0500 From: RBarber854@aol.com Subject: need help with archives I am having trouble accessing archive files. I sent a question to "request" but recieved no answer. Can someone help me? Thanks.....Roxy Barber RBarber854@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Mar 1996 22:56:21 -0500 From: loutre@pipeline.com (Denny Stone) Subject: existence of textile mailing list? About a year ago I remember hearing of a mailing list for textiles. I am primarily interested in historic textiles, not contemporary manufacture or craft weaving. Does anyone on this list remember the address? Thanks in advance, Stone ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 02:03:56 -0500 From: GiulianaLG@aol.com Subject: Foolish Question Greetings! I would greatly appreciate it if someone could tell me how to switch over to the digest version of H Costume... My computer has eaten my instructions post. Thank you for your time, Julie (sca: Giuliana La Gazza) GiulianaLG@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 07:49:37 -0600 (CST) From: "Maria A. Sanders" Subject: Re: Attention authors! 8-) Sorry everyone, I meant to send that privately. Maria ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 06:35:53 -0800 From: packpack@limestone.kosone.com (Frank Packer) Subject: Re: Tents, Rubber, Waterproofing, etc.,etc. Hello! I've been a passive observer of this list since about last August, first through a friend's computer, and now (finally!) through my own account. And at last a topic that falls within some of my own research. In response to Kathy Deles, who asked: >How are the tent replicas made for circa 1700-1800 America? >Does anyone have a list of supplies needed (besides canvas and wood:) and >instructions for making them? I have the Brigade of the American Revolution patterns for American Rev War infantry and cavalry tents. They are avalible through the Patternmaster of the BAR, who is Richard Ponsini, but Murphy's Law, I don't seem to have the address here with me. Contact me directly in a few days and I should be able to find it (or somebody please bail me out in the meantime if you have it). The pattern is only a couple of bucks but, like a lot of BAR patterns, it is more a group of measured drawings than a step-by-step construction guide. I have made a few tents from these plans, and the design is very sound. There is not much more in addition to the canvas and wood you mentioned on a supply list: two 1/4" steel pins which are drilled into the upright poles; about fifty feet of rope for holding the tent pegs; wooden tent pegs; and about a dozen (depends on tent type) brass rings 1/2" to 5/8" inside diameter (available from a harness supply store) for grommets (I find hand-working a ring into a grommet hole much stronger than those flimsy snap-ins which tear out pretty easily); some 3/4" to 1" webbing for door ties and voila! One Tent. I use 10oz Artist-grade canvas (pre-shrunk before construction), Mettler thread, and a twenty-year old Kenmore sewing machine with #16 or #18 needles, and have no problem sewing through the material, even seams of several thicknessess. The tent stands up to Ft. Niagara storms without leaking, by the way. If you want more detailed assistance please ask, and happy sewing! Along the same lines: Maureen Martinez said: >I have read in some descriptions, however, about physically waxing the fabric >of tents. I can only imagine this would have made for VERY heavy and >non-breathing tents, but they would definately resist water a bit more. I would be VERY interested in people sending me any descriptions they have of tents being treated/waxed in the 18th or 19th centuries. So far in my research I have failed to turn up any reference to waterproofing being done upon tents in these periods. The U.S. Army briefly experimented with the "Rider's Tent-Knapsack" and both painted and rubberized shelter-halves in the late 1850s, but these designs were more-or-less ground sheets which could button together into an improvised shelter, and all were fairly quickly rejected (the shelter-half continued on in a plain unwaterproofed cloth version). The Civil War period Quartermaster's Manual, both pre/post 1864 describes the construction of all official U.S. tent designs in great detail, but makes no mention of any kind of waterproofing or sealant on the tents. It does describe, however, the ingredients used in the waterproofing of the black knapsack and haversack (linseed oil, lamp black, spirits of turpentine). QMG Order No. 34, dated August 25th, 1864, discussed the storage of painted articles, such as knapsacks, which are liable to spontaneous combustion -- tents are not mentioned, again another indicator that they were untreated. One of my mid-19th c harness-makers manuals does describe something called a "metallic soap" which promised to make cloth waterproof without adding any additional weight to the material. I do not have the recipe for this concoction right here at hand, but as I remember the preparation was fairly involved and the chemistry doubtful. I can find it and e-mail it out to anyone that is interested, though. In the Rev War period, there are some indications that the tops of tents were painted along the ridge-line where the cross-bar contacts the material. How extensive the practice was is hard to say, and discussions with modern re-enactors who have done it would seem to indicate that the improvement gained by this is negligible. When I first started re-enacting I bought a tent treated with a 1950s era concoction of paraffin wax and turpentine. Hmmmmm... the combination of paraffin, canvas, dry straw, candles, and drunk re-enactors makes one a very light sleeper (and knowing how dry you'll stay as others hose down your burning tent is not completely comforting!!) In my view the added weight, clamminess, and flammability[?] of waterproofings is not worth it unless the tent is really leaking. A well-made untreated tent of quality materials should not be leaking after only a few years of use. Beeswax is an effective sealant for small items (and less likely than paraffin to melt into your car upholstery on a hot day [voice of experience :-( ]); but I imagine that the cost of treating a whole tent with it was just as daunting then as it is now. Other miscellanea: Rubber pants: After the process of vulcanizing rubber was patended in 1844 both rubber and gutta percha became the wonder chemicals of the time (akin to present day plastics). People were trying to use them for almost everything, from shoe soles to water bottles (for drinking, not for keeping warm!). I think the smell finally doomed most of these experiments to failure. The U.S. Army tinkered with all sorts of rubber-made or rubber-treated pieces of equipment in the 1850s, but discarded all of them except for the 'gum blanket' for infantry and the 'talma' for cavalry. So while I have not heard of rubber pants before, it doesn't surprise me that someone in that period thought of it! Fishy smell of umbrella: A commercial artist friend of mine told me that the old methods of making gesso (the sealant painters use on their canvasses -- modern gesso is white acrylic paint) used pigment with either fish or animal glue. I have experimented with trying to use fish glue as a primer but haven't got the proportions down right yet, so cannot comment on its effectiveness. But it's possible that the 'fishy' umbrella was treated with a similar fish glue (although I believe fish glue is water soluble, so something else must have been added to it). Since we are all only products of our research, anyone who has conflicting evidence or wants more info about my sources is certainly welcome to contact me directly to discuss it further. Of course, if the idea of sleeping in an untreated canvas tent doesn't thrill, one could always do what the Romans did -- they made their tents out of goatskins!! Sorry for going on so long -- I'll keep quiet for another seven months now :-) Frank Packer packpack@limestone.kosone.com ------------------------------ End of H-Costume Digest V4 #85 ****************************** A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, send the command lines: unsubscribe h-costume-digest subscribe h-costume end in the body of a message to majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com. Thanks and enjoy the list!