From: owner-h-costume-digest (H-Costume Digest) To: h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Subject: H-Costume Digest V4 #90 Reply-To: h-costume Sender: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Errors-To: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk H-Costume Digest Thursday, April 11 1996 Volume 4, Number 90 Compilation copyright (C) 1996 Diane Barlow Close and Gretchen Miller Use in whole prohibited. Individual articles are the property of the author. Seek permission from that author before reprinting or quoting elsewhere. Important Addresses: Send submissions to: h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com (or reply to this message). Adds/drops/archives: majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com Real, live person: h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Topics: Re: The Kimono Inspiration anglo-saxon sources Re: anglo-saxon sources Re: quick question Mid-Eastern costume fwd: re: anglo-saxon sources Re: Corsets re: anglo-saxon sources costuming in eastern preformance Re: The Kimono Inspiration Re: anglo-saxon sources Re: Corsets Debbie Douglas query re: harem costume Re: Corsets Re: Corsets Hats 1870-1910 Inverness/McFarlane Cloak Re: Dance Pants? Opinions needed on book: "Dress in Ireland", Mairead Dunleavy Book review (was Beading Catalog) Re: Corsets Re: Corsets and rib removal (!?!) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 16:03:57 -0400 From: RBarber854@aol.com Subject: Re: The Kimono Inspiration >>Uh, I feel really stupid asking this, but where is the Textile Museum??? << Ditto ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 16:26:53 -0400 (EDT) From: FALCON@SNYCORVA.CORTLAND.EDU Subject: anglo-saxon sources ok. Now I have gone and done it. I mentioned my interest in historical costuming to my Old English prof and he said that it would be great to do my final paper on it, and he'd give me extra credit if I actually made up an outfit and wore it to class the day of the final. Sounds good to me...but where can I find sources, both archaeological and written (preferably in Old English, so this paper actually has something to do with the language I am supposed to be studying this semester hehe ) that will tell me about such things as fabric, colors and cut? I just need a place to start, but I sure could use some help... Oh - and, jsut to make life more difficult, I'd prefer female clothing... Thanks!! Bernadette Travis ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 17:05:09 -0400 (EDT) From: aleed Subject: Re: anglo-saxon sources I'm not sure this is quite what you wanted, but I once came across this book, "Ein Buch von Alten Farben" (I'm not sure I got the endings right) devoted to medieval dying, weaving, and cloth manufacturing. The author has included the texts for three different medieval books on dying, weaving and cutting cloth for clothing, all in the original Middle German. It's not in old english, but I believe it's around the same time period; and it has invaluable information on textile practices of the day. As far as I know, none of the three texts has ever been translated into modern English. I keep telling myself that I'll do it in my copious free time, but you know how it goes... I found it in our local Art School Library. I believe it may be out of print. Good luck! Drea - ------------------------------- We've secretly replaced their dilithium crystals with new folgers crystals. Now let's watch them go to warp. - ------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 17:38:17 -0400 From: Booboopies@aol.com Subject: Re: quick question Mid-Eastern costume Naomi et al, I meant no insult. The real thing is indeed lovely. The ones you see in the movies usually are pretty awful and not very realistic. JMHO. Karen (and it's booboopies--rhymes with boo-hoo-cries) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 96 16:16:35 MDT From: mgriggs@shepards.com Subject: fwd: re: anglo-saxon sources Comments By: Margaret Griggs@IST@Shepards Originally To: CS_SMTP@Shep2@Shepards[owner-h-costume%lunch.engr.sgi.com@internet.shepards.com] Originally From: Margaret Griggs@IST@Shepards Original Date: 4/10/96 3:50 PM Comments: - -------------------------[Original Message]-------------------------- FALCON%SNYCORVA.CORTLAND.EDU@internet.shepards.com Wrote: | where can I find sources, both archaeological and written (preferably in Old | English, so this paper actually has something to do with the language I am | supposed to be studying this semester hehe ) that will tell me about such | things as fabric, colors and cut? I just need a place to start, but I sure | could use some help... Bernadette, If you have web access, you might try the Viking and Angle/Saxon Page: http://www.ftech.net/~regia/ It's got a fair amount of information and links to other helpful sites which contain pictures and some bib references. Lyssa - ----------------------------------------------- Lady Leofsige O Caoimh Dragonsspine, Outlands mgriggs@shepards.com lyssa@kktv.com http://www.usa.net/~norseman/dragon.html - ----------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 96 18:16:28 CDT From: bednarek@tidalwave.med.ge.com (Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971 ~BHOSVWZ#097) Subject: Re: Corsets It appears to me that to the lay person when corsets are mentioned they imediatly think about tight laced waist thinning garments which are more in the late 1800's and early 1900's era. Perhaps we need some better definition for the newbies that may get styles easily confused, like me at times. I do have a question though and that is was the tight lacing 4 or more inches of waist reduction ever seen outside the Victorian era? And is this style named Victorian because Queen Victoria was Queen during this era or did she have something to do with the design and fashion herself. My thaughts are the grounds that Queen Victory did not seem to have a small waist yet the Victorian style is associated often with small waists? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 19:26:24 -0400 From: Gerekr@aol.com Subject: re: anglo-saxon sources I believe the primary work on Anglo-saxon dress is Owen-Crocker, Gale R. _Dress in Anglo-Saxon England._ Manchester: Manchester University Press, 1986. ISBN 0-7190-1818-8, LC 85-23186. Gary R.D. Walker Gerekr@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 19:42:34 -0700 From: Maryland Institute Library Subject: costuming in eastern preformance Hello. My name is Melissa Lillie. I am a student at the Maryland Institute College of Art in Baltimore, MD. I am competing for a travel grant and researching into costumes of eastern performance and theatre. I have been concentrating on costume design and construction for the past two years of college and have been working for a local costume shop here in Baltimore (A.T. Jones and Sons). Are there programs out there available to students? Are there craftspeople who are willing to allow a student to observe? I would appreciate any information you could lend on the subject. Thank You. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 17:28:26 -0400 From: Carol Bier Subject: Re: The Kimono Inspiration The Textile Museum is located at 2320 S Street, NW, Washington, D.C. 20008. It is open 7 days a week, Mondays - Saturdays, 10:00AM - 5:00 PM, and Sundays, 1:00 - 5:00 PM. Suggested admission is $5, members free-of-charge. It is a short walk from the DuPont Circle metro station on the Red Line; walk up Connecticut Avenue, turn left at Florida and S Street is right there. Carol Bier Curator, Eastern Hemisphere Collections The Textile Museum. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 18:48:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: anglo-saxon sources On Wed, 10 Apr 1996 FALCON@SNYCORVA.CORTLAND.EDU wrote: > ok. Now I have gone and done it. I mentioned my interest in historical > costuming to my Old English prof and he said that it would be great to do my > final paper on it, and he'd give me extra credit if I actually made up an > outfit and wore it to class the day of the final. Sounds good to me...but > where can I find sources, both archaeological and written (preferably in Old > English, so this paper actually has something to do with the language I am > supposed to be studying this semester hehe ) that will tell me about such > things as fabric, colors and cut? I just need a place to start, but I sure > could use some help... > Oh - and, jsut to make life more difficult, I'd prefer female clothing... In my experience, the definitive book on the subject is Gale R. Owen-Crocker's "Dress in Anglo-Saxon England" (Manchester Univ. Press, 1986, ISBN 0-7190-1818-8). Heather Rose Jones ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 22:58:57 -0400 From: Ron Carnegie Subject: Re: Corsets At 06:16 PM 4/10/96 CDT, you wrote: >I do have a question though and that is was the tight lacing >4 or more inches of waist reduction ever seen outside the >Victorian era? And is this style named Victorian because Queen >Victoria was Queen during this era or did she have something >to do with the design and fashion herself. My thaughts are >the grounds that Queen Victory did not seem to have a small >waist yet the Victorian style is associated often with small >waists? > Was the really small waist ever seen outside of the victorian period, I would say yes, but it is because I am a stickler. The very small waist period is later Victorian, and Edwardian. It is called Victorian due to the Queen. The whole period is called that (and she did not design the whole period). It is how they do things in England (Elizabethan, Jacobean, Georgian, etc.) Ron Carnegie rcarnegie@widomaker.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 19:07:53 -0800 From: fsbks@mcn.org (Fred Struthers) Subject: Debbie Douglas query re: harem costume from PALMS & POMEGRANATES: Traditional Dress of Saudi Arabia, the names of the *parts* of this costume -- Hijazi (runs noth to south along the coast of the Red Sea) townswomen wear a high collared blouse, or "sidaireeya", with waist -length bodice & elbow-length sleeves, made of fine cotton muslin, voile or organdy. The "sidaireeya" and the accompanying "sirwaal", or long pants, are worn indoors under a shear thawb. Townswomen often wear silk or satin pants while Bedouin women wear cotton. The pants might be cuffed with fancily decorated close fitting ankle cuffs. The Thawb is an ankle-length shirt worn by men & women with the women's more voluminous and sometimes embellished with metallic thread, sequins, seashells, applique. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 20:27:14 -0700 From: gwjchris@ix.netcom.com (Bill and Glenna Christen) Subject: Re: Corsets You wrote: >I do have a question though and that is was the tight lacing >4 or more inches of waist reduction ever seen outside the >Victorian era? I can't address other time periods, but corsetry in the 1840's & early 1850's wasn't so much to make a tiny waist as much as to create a rather flat chested, vaguely cylindrical look. Later in the '50's and 1860's saw a move toward a more "natural" shape (their term, not mine...I've read "Seeing Through Clothes" :-)) that is the small waist look. Hoop skirts and trims that widen the rest of the body helped make waists look small in comparison even if the woman didn't have a small waist in reality. One thing I noticed is that before I lost 30 lbs. my old corset could take a good 2"-2 1/2" off my waist. Now, even with a new corset, the most I can take off is -1". I've been told by a woman of "substance" that she routinely corsets off 4" from her waist. As she put it, fat squishes better than muscle and bone. IMHO, based on wearing reproduction corsets, late '50's-'60's corsetry is far less confining than that which immediately preceded it and that which followed. >And is this style named Victorian because Queen Victoria was Queen >during this era or did she have something to do with the design and >fashion herself. "Victorian" refers to the era (well over half the 19th Century) that Victoria was Queen, just as "Edwardian" refers to the period in the early 20th Century when Edward VII(?) was King. Since he ruled a fairly short time before he died the term seems to mainly refer to fashion rather than the much wider range of people, things, attitudes, etc. that are termed "Victorian." Glenna Jo Christen gwjchris@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 23:28:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Joanne Haug Subject: Re: Corsets Although corsets were around for centuries, the very tight lacing we are familar with appears to be mostly late Victorian and Edwardian periods. If you want to see some period prints of corset tightening go to . To see photos of actual 19th C. corsets go to >I do have a question though and that is was the tight lacing >4 or more inches of waist reduction ever seen outside the >Victorian era? And is this style named Victorian because Queen >Victoria was Queen during this era or did she have something >to do with the design and fashion herself. My thaughts are >the grounds that Queen Victory did not seem to have a small >waist yet the Victorian style is associated often with small >waists? > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 1996 02:00:42 -0400 From: Ladnier@aol.com Subject: Hats 1870-1910 Yes, I am starting a new research paper. This time, I am looking for references on ladies' hat from 1870 to 1910. Please send any information as to what books to find. After all my papers on the royalty of the world, I thought I'd give them a rest. $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $ $$ $$ $$ $$ $$ $$ $$ $$ $$ $$ $$ $$ $$ $$ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ Pennies from Heaven, where it’s always reigning money or at least my kids think. Penny E. Ladnier, Virginia Commonwealth University s0peladn@cabell.vcu.edu $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $$ $$ $$ $$ $$ $$ $$ $$ $$ $$ $$ $$ $$ $$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 1996 03:10:28 -0400 From: DiderotDC@aol.com Subject: Inverness/McFarlane Cloak I am at a loss as to the exact name of the garment I'm looking for. But what I'm NOT looking for is the "Sherlock Holmes" coat. [Most probably the Inverness] A long sleeved overcoat with a short shoulder cape or a large hood. What I'm interested in was called an "opera cape." [McFarlane cloak] A long overcoat, entierly sleeveless with long sepearate shoulder capes set in as the sleeves would be. Can anyone put me in the way of a pattern for this garment? Thanks ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 1996 02:10:07 -0600 From: bradley Subject: Re: Dance Pants? When I worked as a cocktail waitress several years ago, we wore these pants. I was told to go to a dance store and ask for "flash pants". Never had any trouble finding them. They came in brief, french cut and I believe thong style.Yes, thong. Hope this helps. LaRee in Denver ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 1996 07:21:08 -0500 From: corbie@radix.net (Corbie) Subject: Opinions needed on book: "Dress in Ireland", Mairead Dunleavy I'm looking at a catalogue which is offering the book, "Dress in Ireland," by Mairead Dunleavy. The catalogue (of course) says it's "a lavishly illustrated, well-researched study of the way in which the Irish dressed, rich and poor, male and female, from the bronze age to the 20th century." Anybody know this book? Is it any good? I'm primarily interested in bronze age to medieval Irish dress. Thanks, Corbei ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 1996 9:41:06 -0500 (CDT) From: "SHERYL J. NANCE" Subject: Book review (was Beading Catalog) >However, I did want to mention some >books that *I* thought looked like they might be interesting. There are, of >course all your basic instructional types of books. > >_One of a Kind, American Art Jewelry Today_ Sharon, I just looked at my library's copy of this book. Very pretty but not very informative. Definitely a coffee-table type book. It starts with a 50-60 page overview of the jewelry-as-art movement. The rest of the book (around 150-175 pages) is arranged by artist. A brief (1/2 page) description of the artist & then several pages of close-up pictures of jewelry by that artist. Lots of beautiful pictures, not a lot of text. And most of the jewelry looks like things that should be displayed on a pedestal, not worn on the body. Not my cup of tea, but if that kind of jewelry interests you, then it might be worth the $50.00. Sheryl J. Nance ...one of the secret masters of Kansas City MO Public Library the world: a librarian. They p_sheryl@kcpl.lib.mo.us control information. Don't ever p**s one off. - Spider Robinson, _The Callahan Touch_ (Opinions expressed in this message do not reflect the viewpoint of the Kansas City MO Public Library.) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 1996 08:48:54 -0800 From: "R.L. Shep" Subject: Re: Corsets Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971 ~BHOSVWZ#097 wrote: > > It appears to me that to the lay person when corsets are > mentioned they imediatly think about tight laced waist > thinning garments which are more in the late 1800's and > early 1900's era. Perhaps we need some better definition > for the newbies that may get styles easily confused, like > me at times. > > I do have a question though and that is was the tight lacing > 4 or more inches of waist reduction ever seen outside the > Victorian era? And is this style named Victorian because Queen > Victoria was Queen during this era or did she have something > to do with the design and fashion herself. My thaughts are > the grounds that Queen Victory did not seem to have a small > waist yet the Victorian style is associated often with small > waists? Corsets were different in each period as the formed the "foundation" of the fashion line for that period. This is why they are so important to understand if you are doing period costume. In "Corsets: A Visual History" corest illustrations, magazine ads, newspaper ads and catalogues are shown between 1840 & ca 1930. It is available from R.L. Shep ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 1996 10:46:14 -0700 From: gwjchris@ix.netcom.com (Bill and Glenna Christen) Subject: Re: Corsets and rib removal (!?!) You wrote: >It's my understanding that some women during the Victorian period had their >lowest ribs removed in order to achieve a small waist. >I'm afraid I don't remember the source for this bit of info, but it was a >book on the history of women and medical treatment, not a clothing/fashion >source. I'd like to see hard primary source evidence for this, especially considering the state of medicine in the 19th Century. I too have heard this "historical legend" and IMHO that's what it is, just a "legend" perhaps created or at least promoted by people (wisely) opposed to the practice of tight-lacing. This is not to say a few really obssessed women didn't do this late in the century (really wonder even then...), but certainly not in the mid-century. I remember hearing about models in the 1960's having molars removed to achieve the "hollow cheeked" look that was currently in vogue. I never saw any evidence that anyone actually did this relatively simple yet permanent procedure even this recently, much less removing ribs in the 19th Century. If anyone has found any, I'd love to see hard proof of it though. It does take the phrase "Suffer to be beautiful" to a real extreme that's for sure! Glenna Jo Christen gwjchris@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ End of H-Costume Digest V4 #90 ****************************** A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, send the command lines: unsubscribe h-costume-digest subscribe h-costume end in the body of a message to majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com. Thanks and enjoy the list!