From: owner-h-costume-digest (H-Costume Digest) To: h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Subject: H-Costume Digest V4 #93 Reply-To: h-costume Sender: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Errors-To: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk H-Costume Digest Monday, April 15 1996 Volume 4, Number 93 Compilation copyright (C) 1996 Diane Barlow Close and Gretchen Miller Use in whole prohibited. Individual articles are the property of the author. Seek permission from that author before reprinting or quoting elsewhere. Important Addresses: Send submissions to: h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com (or reply to this message). Adds/drops/archives: majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com Real, live person: h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Topics: Re: Egyptian costuming Re: Egyptian costuming - collars Re: tummies Re: tummies Re: 17th cen names for colors 1920's sources Re: "harem costumes" Re: 1750s breeches Re: 1750s breeches Re: 17th cen names for colors When to use ribbon trims? Web Site Revisions [Fwd: Re: "harem costumes"] [none] waist trimming was tummies ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 14 Apr 1996 01:13:12 +0000 From: "Leslie Helms" Subject: Re: Egyptian costuming > Subject: Re: Egyptian costuming-HELP! > One of the main > things that we are also trying to figure out is accessorizing everything. > Most of the patterns, etc. are so basic and have no mention of accessories, > or anything of the sort. It seems like most of the costumes in the movies > (such as Ten Commandments, which was just on) are all very accessorized, so > we are trying to figure out how we can do something like that. One more note on the fabric--I just found a cotton/linen blend which is handling very nicely and which washed well. It was at JoAnn Fabrics; I think that's the same as New York Fabrics on other parts of the country. The single most "Egyptian" accessory you can add is a collar. For small actors, I'd say about 3 to 4 inches wide for most of them and 5 inches for high-ranking roles and perhaps 6-7 inches for royalty. You can find pictures of these in Egyptology books (and other costume ideas). They fit fairly close to the neck and lie flat across the chest, shoulders, and back. You may be able to borrow collars for your main actors from local belly dancers. (I have one in gold and black with turquoise clay scarab beetles worked in, for instance. It cost $35. Ask me if you need the source.) For others, consider a heavy, supple fabric, perhaps with a cutout design of metallic fabric overlaid, and glued-on stones or jewels. Gold, lapis lazuli, turqoise, coral, and black are the basics that give the best look. You're going for an inlay-on-metal effect. Eye makeup will do wonders. Don't spare the eyeliner, and run it and the eyebrows wayyy out toward the ears. And remember the Egyptians were fiends for gold; they beat it thin and covered everything they could with it. Craft stores have gold-leafing kits, metallic paints, etc. that you can use on props and accessories. Check your local Middle Eastern dancers for Egyptian accessories. E-mail me again if you need contact info, I may be able to help. Leslie ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Apr 1996 05:56:03 -0700 From: gwjchris@ix.netcom.com (Bill and Glenna Christen) Subject: Re: Egyptian costuming - collars You wrote: >The single most "Egyptian" accessory you can add is a collar. For >small actors, I'd say about 3 to 4 inches wide for most of them and 5 >inches for high-ranking roles and perhaps 6-7 inches for royalty. I had the great fortune to see and examine "up close and personal" two original ancient Egyptian collars. (I don't want to know how this dealer got hold of these items, and I sure hope they weren't "cursed" :-)!) They were made of very small fired clay beads strung on gold or brass wire (These were restrung as the original metal had deteriorated in the few thousand years since they were first strung.) They were designed to fit close to the neck and lay flat all the way around out to about 3"-5" if my memory serves me correctly. I don't know if the beads originally had a shiny glaze on them. I suppose they very likely have faded some, but the colors were still beautiful shades of turquoise, coral, creams, etc. It has been many years since I saw them, but they were hard to forget!! I hope this helps a bit. (See, I actually have something to contribute beside mid-19th Century topics! :-) ) Glenna Jo Christen gwjchris@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Apr 96 10:08:59 PDT From: Ches@mail.io.com Subject: Re: tummies >At 07:13 PM 4/12/96 -0500, you wrote: >> >>Ok, so now what do I do about my butt? >> >>Sharon in Phoenix Lay on your back with a chair at your butt and place one heel on the edge of the seat. Without hurting yourself lift your butt off the ground while you have your other foot at about your knee then lower yourself. Do this 50 times (it will go fast) change feet and do it again. Do that once every other day and in two weeks your significant other will notice the difference before you do. THEN you will have to reshape all your pants! Get those pattern programs out! Ciao @}\ Ches @}----`--,-- http://www.io.com/~ches/ @}/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Apr 1996 09:50:43 -0700 From: Sharon Bolton Subject: Re: tummies At 10:08 AM 4/14/96 PDT, you wrote: > >>At 07:13 PM 4/12/96 -0500, you wrote: >>> >>>Ok, so now what do I do about my butt? >>> >>>Sharon in Phoenix >>> >>> >Lay on your back with a chair at your butt and place one heel on the edge of the >seat. Without hurting yourself lift your butt off the ground while you have your >other foot at about your knee then lower yourself. Do this 50 times (it will go fast) >change feet and do it again. Do that once every other day and in two weeks your >significant other will notice the difference before you do. THEN you will have to >reshape all your pants! Get those pattern programs out! >Ciao @}\ >Ches @}----`--,-- http://www.io.com/~ches/ Oh, oh, stop, please! LOL! You want me to WHAT?????? Lift my butt off the floor without hurting myself? Snort, roar, riotous laughter... And 50 times??? gasping for breath... It will go FAST???? wetting my pants... And then do it again??? tears running down my face.... What a sense of humor!!!! Ches, me and a CRANE couldn't do the above exercise! But thanks for the laugh! Sharon in Phoenix who does not share fabric well with others... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Apr 96 22:38:04 UT From: "Susan Carter" Subject: Re: 17th cen names for colors Luke, You might check out "Costume in the Drama of Shakespeare and his Contemporaries" by M. Channing Linthicum. Lots of quotes from drama and other sources and a great deal on the symbolism of color. Falconwood Press has a nice spiral bound reprint for about $12 I believe. Su Carter Weaver (508) 746-1622 ext.214 Plimoth Plantation sucarter@msn.com Box 1620 Plymouth, MA 02362 "There is no problem which does not become increasingly complex when actively investigated, growing in scope and depth, endlessly opening up new vistas of work to be done." - Fernand Braudel ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Apr 1996 21:37:19 -0700 From: Joan Broneske Subject: 1920's sources Does anyone know of a good book with pictures of 1920's clothing? Thanks, Joan Broneske ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 11:46:31 +0100 (BST) From: Dorothy Stein Subject: Re: "harem costumes" On Fri, 12 Apr 1996, Susan Fatemi wrote: > sorry, I just have to get on my soapbox again. The closest actual costume > to the I dream of Jeanie / Aladdin genre is Indian dance costume, these are > professional dancers (another term is "nautch" dancer, don't know if that is > pejoritive or not), formerly associated with temples, religious rites, etc., > now frequently ladies of pleasure, unfortunately. The costume frequently > included an abbreviated top (choli) and draped or sewn trousers or skirts, > with a drape across the body/head. I am not an expert on Indian costume and > will glandly stand correction. > I don't wish ill to anyone's glands and I'm not an expert on Indian costume either, but I have lived in India for years and published papers on Indian women's history. The costume of the 'nautch' dancer of Indian movie fame is indeed based on the traditional one of the temple dancer (called 'devadasi' or 'slave of the gods'). It is also a variant and ancestor (with the skirt part tucked up between the legs as is the male 'dhoti') of the current sari. The blouse [choli] is a relatively modern addition. 'Bharat natyam' and its Indian dance variants are now treated as a serious art form and studied by many westerners as well as middle class Indian women. The current practitioners are not 'ladies of pleasure'. However, it should be noted that the themes of many of the dances are extremely erotic (the dancer pining with love for the god Krishna, etc., just as nuns are often likened to 'brides of Christ' and initiated in wedding gowns), and also that traditionally the temple dancer was of very low social status and indeed brought an income to the temple by way of temple prostitution. (I have studied transcripts of court cases in which the legitimacy of an heir was challenged by the very fact that his mother belonged to a caste of temple dancers.) In a sense, Hindu Indian culture (like most cultures) treats all women as 'ladies of pleasure', the pleasure given by respectable women being reserved for the husband alone. So, wives, like dancers, may dress in gay colours, wear jewellery, flowers, paint and a 'happiness mark', while widows must wear drab colours, no makeup, flowers or jewellery, and, among the conservative, not even a blouse. The wearing of the sari has become a sort of political symbol among the fundamentalist Hindu right wing, despite that fact that (like many traditional women's costumes) it is ill-designed, uncomfortable and awkward for a hot, humid climate and the many tasks (and even leisure activities, such as playing tennis) that women must engage in. (The same is true, of course of nun's habits.) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 10:40:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Kelly A Rinne Subject: Re: 1750s breeches Adapting the past patterns 19thc. fall-front works very wellfor this, as it has bias in the seat but still fits closely to the leg...Kel ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 11:50:17 -0400 From: Kevin Richard-Morrow Subject: Re: 1750s breeches >Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 11:55:56 >To: Kelly A Rinne >From: Kevin Richard-Morrow >Subject: Re: 1750s breeches >Cc: grm+@andrew.cmu.edu > >At 10:40 AM 4/15/96 -0400, you wrote: >>Adapting the past patterns 19thc. fall-front works very wellfor this, as >>it has bias in the seat but still fits closely to the leg...Kel >> >> > I don't know this pattern too well but doesn't it have a broad fall front? The falls in 1780 and '90s should be narrow. There are patterns (Pegee, Eagle view, Janice Ryan) for this period that should not need as much adaptation. > > Jas. Townsend & Son, Inc > 133 North First Street > P.O. Box 415 > Pierceton, IN 46562 > > 1-800-338-1665 > > > The above stocks several of these patterns and other 18th century "stuff". > > Your Servant > Kevin Richard-Morrow > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 12:04:24 -0400 From: rebus@madbbs.com Subject: Re: 17th cen names for colors Dear Stu and all, There is a wonderful psychology book on the meaning of color available to the public called the Luscher Color Test...You can order it at any bookstore from random house $4.95 in paper. It is full of information on the emotional response to color well researched in Europe with a large professional bibliography...But it is written in a nice non-academic style...Pax, Lili At 10:13 PM 4/14/96 -0500, you wrote: > >Luke, >You might check out "Costume in the Drama of Shakespeare and his >Contemporaries" by M. Channing Linthicum. Lots of quotes from drama and other >sources and a great deal on the symbolism of color. Falconwood Press has a >nice spiral bound reprint for about $12 I believe. > >Su Carter > Weaver (508) 746-1622 ext.214 > Plimoth Plantation sucarter@msn.com > Box 1620 > Plymouth, MA 02362 > >"There is no problem which does not become increasingly complex >when actively investigated, growing in scope and depth, >endlessly opening up new vistas of work to be done." > - Fernand Braudel > Lili Pintea-Reed Adjunct Prof. Psy. SUNY/Jamestown rebus@madbbs.com http://www.madbbs.com/rebus/rebus.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 15:46:19 -0400 From: Gaelscot@aol.com Subject: When to use ribbon trims? wise... can anyone tell me what eras the ribbon-type trims are appropriate for? Despite the bewildering variety currently available, they don't seem to be used on anything today. Who makes them and why? As an SCA member, I've seen them used on many things where they don't really belong -- but then again, I'm not certain where they do belong! Can anyone enlighten me? Gail Finke gaelscot@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 13:37:17 -0800 From: "R.L. Shep" Subject: Web Site Revisions Well I finally learned how to make changes in my own Web Site (before that I had to rely on someone else and things had to be done at their speed). The RAGS Web Site has been revised: The RAGS Magazine page now has a new list of books that will be reviewed in future issues. The Costume & Textile Sites page has been completely reworked: links have been deleted/links have been added. All links have short reviews to enable you to decide whether or not you want to go there. Links will be added on a regular basis now, as we find them. Thanks for viewing, R.L. Shep ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 13:38:04 -0800 From: "R.L. Shep" Subject: [Fwd: Re: "harem costumes"] X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 Message-ID: <31728619.5B9A@mcn.org> Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 09:23:37 -0800 From: "R.L. Shep" X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dorothy Stein Subject: Re: "harem costumes" References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dorothy Stein wrote: > > > I don't wish ill to anyone's glands and I'm not an expert on Indian > costume either, but I have lived in India for > years and published papers on Indian women's history. The costume of > the 'nautch' dancer of Indian movie fame is indeed based on the > traditional one of the temple dancer (called 'devadasi' or 'slave of the > gods'). It is also a variant and ancestor (with the skirt part tucked up > between the legs as is the male 'dhoti') of the current sari. The blouse > [choli] is a relatively modern addition. 'Bharat natyam' and its Indian dance > variants are now treated as a serious art form and studied by many > westerners as well as middle class Indian women. The current practitioners > are not 'ladies of pleasure'. > However, it should be noted that the themes of many of the dances are extremely > erotic (the dancer pining with love for the god Krishna, etc., just as > nuns are often likened to 'brides of Christ' and initiated in wedding > gowns), and also that traditionally the temple dancer was of very low > social status and indeed brought an income to the temple by way of temple > prostitution. (I have studied transcripts of court cases in which the > legitimacy of an heir was challenged by the very fact that his mother > belonged to a caste of temple dancers.) > In a sense, Hindu Indian culture (like most cultures) treats all women as > 'ladies of pleasure', the pleasure given by respectable women being > reserved for the husband alone. So, wives, like dancers, may > dress in gay colours, wear jewellery, flowers, paint and a 'happiness > mark', while widows must wear drab colours, no makeup, flowers or > jewellery, and, among the conservative, not even a blouse. The wearing of > the sari has become a sort of political symbol among the fundamentalist > Hindu right wing, despite that fact that (like many traditional women's > costumes) it is ill-designed, uncomfortable and awkward for a hot, humid > climate and the many tasks (and even leisure activities, such as playing > tennis) that women must engage in. (The same is true, of course of nun's > habits.) Whereas I agree with your description of Indian Dance Costumes, I do find that your view of Indian culture and the status of women is a bit simplistic. All the things you say are true in some instances and not in others. It is very hard to generalize when you are dealing with a number of cultures and indeed countries that make up what we call "India". Respect for another culture often leads to understanding, and in the case of Indian cultures, they have a very long tradition and are both very involved and evolved. :-) R.L. Shep ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 20:14:21 -0400 From: Gaelscot@aol.com Subject: [none] ist with this, but a while ago I corresponded briefly with a lady, on behalf of a friend, about organ pipe pleats. I lost the correspondence, but the friend decided not to make the costume in question so I did not pursue it. Now she wants to do it after all AND my husband has decided he can't live without the same thing, so I need the information after all. If the lady (Julie Adams, perhaps?) would email me privately I would appreciate it. I know the directions are in the first edition of some book, but I don't know which one or if I can get ahold of it... Gail Finke/gaelscot@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 96 20:09:18 CDT From: bednarek@tidalwave.med.ge.com (Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971 ~BHOSVWZ#097) Subject: waist trimming was tummies Suddenly the topic here has gone from fashions of old to fitting into them. This brings some comments to my mind and again some added questions. LILLI wrote: All this talk of corsets reminded me to tell you that sitting isolates the abdominal muscles...So suck in your tummy for ten seconds whenever you remember and you'll loose inches off your waists... Actually, ever since I had my kid (ok so he's four) my stomach just wouldn't flatten up unless (sounds of anguish) I did _SITUPS_...(cries from the depths of hell)... I'll reply Actually there is more to tummy reduction than meets the initial eye. There are two type of large tummies those of fat and those of un toned muscles. Some of us are even blessed with both problems. The best thing for toning the muscles are called crunches. Basicly the initial part of pulling your shoulders off the ground in a sit up. The later part works more for your Thigh muscles. This is the best exercise per countless exercise experts for reducing the tummy. For those with the fat problem there is only one solution and that is better balancing the intake to your consumption of calories. Yupe the old diet routine. However on a temporary bases the corset could have been a blessing. It will reduce your intake and force the fat to less undesirable places untill it is removed. Now for me question. In several archives I have seen mention of 17" waist corsets. My assumption is with a 2" gap they would lace someone down to 19" and pull them in a makimum of 4" from an original 23". This still seems small in my mind. Does anyone have any statistics that point to where the "average" waist was in the 1890`s when tight lacing probably peaked? Dennis ------------------------------ End of H-Costume Digest V4 #93 ****************************** A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, send the command lines: unsubscribe h-costume-digest subscribe h-costume end in the body of a message to majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com. Thanks and enjoy the list!