From: owner-h-costume-digest (H-Costume Digest) To: h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Subject: H-Costume Digest V4 #94 Reply-To: h-costume Sender: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Errors-To: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk H-Costume Digest Tuesday, April 16 1996 Volume 4, Number 94 Compilation copyright (C) 1996 Diane Barlow Close and Gretchen Miller Use in whole prohibited. Individual articles are the property of the author. Seek permission from that author before reprinting or quoting elsewhere. Important Addresses: Send submissions to: h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com (or reply to this message). Adds/drops/archives: majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com Real, live person: h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Topics: Corsets Inappropriate message Cape Patterns Wanted Fetish Fans and headpieces Re: Corsets Re: Fans and headpieces Re: Fans and headpieces Re: Fans and headpieces Victorian Groups re: Fans and headpieces circlets Keeping headpieces on Re: Keeping headpieces on re: Fans and headpieces Keeping headpieces on Historic Costume Showcase 96 RE: 17th cen names for colors ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 19:30:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Allan Terry Subject: Corsets Dennis, Re corset size--not all corsets were worn by adults. They were also worn by teenage and younger girls. Fran Grimble ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 19:39:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Allan Terry Subject: Inappropriate message This is the kind of message that really shouldn't be taking up bandwidth here but--someone on this list, I think Carol Kocian, corresponded with me asking where to find a professional teacher of vintage dance in the Washington DC area. I found one. So if you send me an e-mail address, I'll tell you how to get in touch with her. Fran Grimble ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 22:19:10 -0700 From: Al Shjarback Subject: Cape Patterns Wanted I am looking for a pattern for an 18th Century (Full Length) Women's cape. Additionally I need a pattern for a Man's 18th Century Innkeeper outfit. Thanks for your help..... Donna Shjarback als@intac.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 23:28:27 -0500 (CDT) From: The Espresso Pegasus! Subject: Fetish AS I was perusing the fasion and arts corner of Barnes and Noble.. I happened upon a book called "Fetish" and in it was all sorts of information about thoer nasty high heels, and the corsets.. and other wearables involved in Fetish lifestyle. My hands were already full of books by this time... but it sells for about 35.00 Ciao! Sarahj ______________________.oO*Oo._______________________ You Can Fret Me, But You Cannot Play Upon Me--Hamlet ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 23:37:49 -0500 From: Ruth Cooper Subject: Fans and headpieces I have two questions for anyone who could possibly answer them. How far back do hand held folding fans date and when were they most likely used (i.e. court, balls)? And how do I get an early period(1000-1200) floor length veil to stay on my head for most of a day? The veil is very sheer light weight cotton. I have tried pinning it, wrapping a portion of it around a headband, and using a simple cloth braided circlet. I have hip length fine hair that I usually wear in a single braid over my left shoulder when I wear a veil. I have a hard time keeping most hair ornaments in my hair because it's so fine. Any help and suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thank-you! Ruth Cooper SCA persona Kassia MacWilliams ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 06:10:35 -0700 From: gwjchris@ix.netcom.com (Bill and Glenna Christen) Subject: Re: Corsets You wrote: >Re corset size--not all corsets were worn by adults. They were also worn >by teenage and younger girls. In addition, at least in the 1860's, depending on the family, both boys and girls as young as 3-5 years old were put into lightly or totally unboned, elastic sided corsets with shoulder straps to keep them on. (How is that for a run on sentence!:-)) This apparently was done to ensure they would develop good posture. Another more obvious use was the button on the front at the waist. This was used to button on drawers and petticoats to keep them on those hipless little people! Glenna Jo Christen gwjchris@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 09:18:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Astrida E B Schaeffer Subject: Re: Fans and headpieces The best way to keep a veil firmly in place is to wear a barbette under it! (a narrow band of fabric that frames your face; from under your chin to the top of your head) You pin your veil directly to the barbette and it stays put quite nicely! Any circlet I've worn when I've done this has been purely decorative; it has no part in keeping my veil in place. Good luck! Astrida Astrida Schaeffer "All life on Earth is a fairy tale in which outlandish creatures pursue impossible lives" - Rutherford Platt ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 96 09:00:02 PDT From: Ches@mail.io.com Subject: Re: Fans and headpieces I realize this is slightly off topic but I can't get anyone in that area to answer. What are the sumptuary laws on circlet size in the various sca groups? How do you keep a veil on with one during a wind Storm? > Ciao @}\ Ches @}----`--,-- http://www.io.com/~ches/ @}/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 10:59:44 -0400 From: eliz@world.std.com (Elizabeth Lear) Subject: Re: Fans and headpieces Subject: Victorian Groups I know this isn't exactly on topic but... a friend of mine is moving to the Dallas/Ft Worth area. She is already in the SCA and is interested in getting involved w/ a Victorian group. If any one out there knows of such a group in that area, I would very much appreciate a reply via private e-mail. Thanks in advance. Hmmm... I wonder ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 96 09:59:11 MDT From: mgriggs@shepards.com Subject: re: Fans and headpieces Ruth Cooper Wrote: | I have two questions for anyone who could possibly answer them. How far | back do hand held folding fans date and when were they most likely used | (i.e. court, balls)? | And how do I get an early period(1000-1200) floor length veil to stay on my | head for most of a day? The veil is very sheer light weight cotton. I have | tried pinning it, wrapping a portion of it around a headband, and using a | simple cloth braided circlet. I have hip length fine hair that I usually | wear in a single braid over my left shoulder when I wear a veil. I have a | hard time keeping most hair ornaments in my hair because it's so fine. Any | help and suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thank-you! | | Ruth Cooper | SCA persona Kassia MacWilliams | | I have been told by a gentleman who likes to recreate Japanese culture that folding fans were used quite early (how early slips my mind). Generally they were a folding paper rather than the carved wood slats common in the tourist shops. These would have been reserved to the nobility with flat woven reed fans for the general populace. As for European timing, folding fans were not used until mid to late Elizabethan and then only by the very high nobility as they were just appearing in Europe and were costly and difficult to acquire. Most common would probably be a flat woven fan, a board or leather rectangle attached to a stick (Italian) or a feathered fan for nobility. Fans were an integral part of the wardrobe for Elizabethan and Italian Ren. They could be scented to keep the bad airs away, have mirrors attached, or just be a status symbol to display great wealth. Someone please correct me if I've confused the periods again. :) As for keeping a veil or hair accessories in fine hair, it is best to have slightly dirty hair. Very clean hair is much more slippery than slightly dirty hair. Interestingly enough a middle eastern dancer told me about this one. When she has very clean hair, the sword tends to slip right off her head. When she has slightly dirty hair, the sword has better traction and tends to stay put. Very dirty hair is not necessary. Just skip shampooing the day or the day before you need the veil to stay put. Hope this helps! Lyssa - ----------------------------------------------- Lady Leofsige O Caoimh Dragonsspine, Outlands mgriggs@shepards.com lyssa@kktv.com http://www.usa.net/~norseman/dragon.html - ----------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 08:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine.Keegan@ncal.kaiperm.org Subject: circlets This topic should quickly go off line. As has been pointed out before, the correct context for this is on rec.org.sca. P.S. The West has no hard and fast sumptuary laws. The only coronet styles that are protected are ducal (strawberry leaves at the four points) and embattled for the counts/earls. And, no, armigers are not expected to wear a circlet. Heck, I hardly ever wear my viscountal coronet or my peerage medallions. We're the pretentiously unpretentious West. Catherine Keegan/Ceridwen MacAoudhegain West ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 96 12:25:00 est From: "Hilary Oak" Subject: Keeping headpieces on Ruth asked for help keeping headpieces on fine hair. A trick I have used successfully for years in theatrical work and bridal millinery is: Attach a small hair comb (about 2" wide) to the headpiece withe the teeth pointing toward the back of your head. Then gather a bunch of hair in a small flat metal hair clip. Slide the teeth of the comb under the clip until snug. It holds like a charm! It's also great for attaching hairpieces and falls. If the clip slides down gather more hair from a wider section and put some gel, mousse or hairspray on where the clip will go. hdpc: ****** ______ It looks something like this: comb: !!!!!! ********** !!!!!! * _______ * !!!!!! * !!!!!!! * [=======] clip:[======] !!!!!!! !!!!!!! I doubt that this has any historical validity but I know it works! - - Hilary ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 12:05:35 -0500 (CDT) From: Gwyndlyn J Ferguson Subject: Re: Keeping headpieces on To keep my veils on, I use a long straight pin or two. First (out of the wind) adjust the veil and circlet (fillet, whatever) as you want them. Then pin through the veil and catch the hair underneath - -- like pinning two pieces of fabric together -- you _can_ do this without poking your scalp. :) I usually weave the pin in and out a few times, rather than just one big section like so: 0 - - - -- I pin on on the top of my head, and one toward the back, into the braid, yet still within the circlet. I use long quilter's pins, or corsage pins. These help hold the weight of the veil and keep it from slipping down my head. I know that straight pins are correct for later periods (1400s-1500s) but I don't know about earlier. Gwyn *Gwyn Ferguson******************************Ly. Gwyndlyn Caer Vyrddin *Dept. of History*********************************March of Lochmorrow *Western Illinois University***********************SCA-Middle Kingdom *Internet: GJ-Ferguson@wiu.edu***********************************MoAS But it's Eaaaasy! --gf ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 13:23:55 -0400 (EDT) From: aleed Subject: re: Fans and headpieces > | And how do I get an early period(1000-1200) floor length veil to stay on my > | head for most of a day? The veil is very sheer light weight cotton. I have > | tried pinning it, wrapping a portion of it around a headband, and using a > | simple cloth braided circlet. I have hip length fine hair that I usually > | wear in a single braid over my left shoulder when I wear a veil. I have a > | hard time keeping most hair ornaments in my hair because it's so fine. Any > | help and suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thank-you! Ruth, Have you tried wrapping a strap/wimple/piece of cloth under your chin and pinning the ends on top of your head, and then pinning the veil to the wimple fabric? That's period. Also, if you're having trouble with the veil flying every which way, Try sewing some trim along the edge of it, or using heavy thread and binding the edge to make it heavier. Drea ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 11:27:10 -0700 From: Subject: Keeping headpieces on This is a Saudi Arabian solution to keeping a cloth on your head...wear a small, slightly rough cotton cap, like a very small, soft pillbox hat, no stiffening, over your hair (you may need to clip it to your hair) then drape the veil over it. The little hat doesn't show underneath the veil. (This is a men's style I learned from my Dad, who worked there, I don't know what the women did). He said the mens agal(?), the circlet of cords worn on top of the headdress was mostly decorative, it didn't really hold the cloth on, but helped weight it to hold it in place. Alison ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 17:19:09 -0400 From: JEBerry@aol.com Subject: Historic Costume Showcase 96 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ---------------------------------- Dear H-Costumers, I'm passing along this announcement for Historic Costume Showcase 96 taking place in Michigan on Sat. May 18, 1996. This is a small, first time event, for people interested in costuming is just 70 miles north of Detroit. Within a 25 mile area, we have Crossroads Village (with its 100 costumed employees and 300 costumed volunteers), The Michigan Renaissance Festival, the Dickens Festival at Holly, MI., a large contingent of reenactors, and a strong following for community theater. All these groups have a common interest in recreational costuming. We hope this event will help get these people together to share knowledge and enthusiasm and to recruit more people to these events. We will be showing participants how to use the internet to gather costuming information. If any of you H-Costumers would like to give our participants any words of encouragement, please post a message to H-Costume and I will pass them along during the show. Thanks. I'm looking forward to any comments on our endeavor. - -------------------------------------------------------- Historic Costume Showcase 96 - -------------------------------------------------------- The Genesee County Parks and Recreation Commission is hosting Historic Costume Showcase 96 at the Colwell Opera House inside Crossroads Village on Saturday May 18, 1996 from 12:30pm to 5pm. Admission is free. This event is an introduction to the opportunities for recreational costuming in the Mid-Michigan area. The goal is to build enthusiasm for research, making, wearing, and enjoying historic costumes by gathering together novice and advanced hobbyists. Through socializing, displays, handout information, and an informal workshop the sponsors wish to lay the ground work for the on-going support of costuming in the area. Finally, with a fashion show and raffle, we want to demonstrate that historic costuming can be fun for anyone. For further information contact Jim Berry at (810) 736-7100 ext. 228 or by eMAIL at xroadvilg@aol.com . Members of the Flint Community Players will be presenting a show of "Costume Fashions 1860-1960". Models will be wearing costumes that are part of the extensive collection maintained by the Flint Community Players from their many years of theatrical productions. Professional Theatrical Costumer, Peggy Ash-Dunham, will be leading the informal workshop "Getting Started in Costuming at Crossroads". She will help participants understand preparing patterns, cutting out fabric , and garment construction. Peggy Ash-Dunham has created costumes for the Santa Fe Opera, Arizona Theater Company, San Diego Repertory Theater, The Goodman Theater of Chicago, Indiana Repertory Theater, and PBS American Playhouse television production "Break of Dawn". She has been a production pattern maker for the garment industry working in Sri Lanka. A Flint native, Peggy was one of the original theater crew at Crossroads Village when it first opened. Jim Berry, lead historical interpreter at Crossroads Village, will guide participants through the steps in "Researching a Costume". He will provide help in locating patterns, fabrics, notions, advice, and historical documentation locally, through your library, and on the Internet. Jim has a degree in history from the University of Michigan and teaches historical crafts. Currently, Jim is researching the everyday work life of a Genesee County farm family circa. 1870. On hand will be experienced local costumers with their costumes, some advise, and lots of encouragement for those interested in the hobby. Many of these people work, volunteer, or participate in the area's costumed events. They can be the key to getting involved in theater or living history reenactment as a fun and enlightening recreational activity. Crossroads Village will be displaying vintage garments and antique sewing machines from their collection. Raffle prizes will be drawn throughout the afternoon. Refreshments will be provided. Historic Crossroads Village and the Huckleberry Railroad is a living history recreation facility operated by the Genesee County Parks and Recreation Commission near Flint, Michigan. Over 30 historic buildings have been located on the shore of Mott Lake to recreate a rural village of the 1860-1880 period. The centerpiece of the village is the 8.5 mile recreation of the "Huckleberry Line" of the Pere Marquette R.R.. Crossroads Village offers events and programs during its operating season June - September, Halloween, and Christmas. Call 1-800-648-PARK for more information. Crossroads Village can be reached from I-75 or I-69 via I-475 at Flint. Use exit #13 to go north on Saginaw Street to Stanley Rd., then east on Stanley Rd. to Bray Rd. Take Bray Rd. south to village entrance. - ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jim Berry Historic Crossroads Village Genesee County Parks and Recreation Commission G-5045 E. Stanley Rd. Flint, MI 48506 (810) 736-7100 Ext 228 jeberry@aol.com xroadvlg@aol.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 17:22:50 -0700 From: Cheryl Melnick Subject: RE: 17th cen names for colors Hi Luke- I thought you might be interested in this 15th century list of colors I found The Craftsman's Handbook "Il Libro dell'Arte" by Cennino d'Andrea Cennini Translated by Daniel V. Thompson Jr published by Dover books in 1960 Library of Congress Catalog Number #54-3194 (no ISBN # listed) According to the above book, the following are the names for colors in 15th century Florence: Here are the content headings: How to make various sorts of black How to make the red called cinabrese (two types designated: light cinabrese and cinabrese) On the character of the red called vermilion On the character of a red called red lead On the character of a red called hematite On the character of a red called dragonsbood On the character of a red called lac On the character of a yellow called ocher On the character of a yellow called giallorino On the character of a yellow called orpiment On the character of a yellow called realgar On the character of a yellow called saffron On the character of a yellow called arzcia On the character of a green called terre-verte On the character of a green called malachite How you make a green with orpiment and indigo How you make a green with blue and giallorino How you make a green with ultramarine blue On the character of a green called verdigris How you make a green with white lead and terre-verte or lime white On the character of lime white On the character of azurite How to make a violet color Please feel free to contact me if you need/want further information Note: this books also has some craftwork ideas for painting on clothing, creating costume colors* and creating your own colors and other related topics *limited to a few lines only Cheryl ********************************************************* Cheryl Melnick Sessionware, Inc General Manager Phone:408-559-7799 cheryl@sessionware.com http://www.sessionware.com >---------- >From: lukelep@neca.com[SMTP:lukelep@neca.com] >Sent: Friday, April 12, 1996 9:06 PM >To: h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com >Subject: 17th cen names for colors > >Hi everyone! > >If I could call upon the collected knowledge of the mailing list in >regards >to 17th cen color names, I would be very grateful. > >They went in for as kooky names then as we do now and I have been able >to >figure a number of them (like 'dead Spaniard', the image that conjures >up!) >but there are a few that elude me, viz, 'folding color', 'de Boyes', >'barry', 'milly', 'tuly', also what is the difference in shade between >Kendall green and Lincoln green. > >Any assistance would be appreciated. > >Cheers! > >Luke > > > ------------------------------ End of H-Costume Digest V4 #94 ****************************** A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, send the command lines: unsubscribe h-costume-digest subscribe h-costume end in the body of a message to majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com. Thanks and enjoy the list!