From: owner-h-costume-digest (H-Costume Digest) To: h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Subject: H-Costume Digest V4 #102 Reply-To: h-costume Sender: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Errors-To: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk H-Costume Digest Friday, April 26 1996 Volume 4, Number 102 Compilation copyright (C) 1996 Diane Barlow Close and Gretchen Miller Use in whole prohibited. Individual articles are the property of the author. Seek permission from that author before reprinting or quoting elsewhere. Important Addresses: Send submissions to: h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com (or reply to this message). Adds/drops/archives: majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com Real, live person: h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Topics: Bronze Age Clothing Re: Bronze Age Clothing Re: Coutil Re: Coutil coutil Re: Waist sizes/corsets Quoted text etiquette reminder... Re: Dyes Re: re:re: re waists Dyes Re: Boots PRO chemical Re: wedding rings history Bombazine Corset Materials Re: shoelaces Re: Bombazine Re: Height Collars ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 19:34:08 +0000 From: ben Subject: Bronze Age Clothing Can anyone give me any information on Bronze Age clothing, fasteners and jewellery, particularly from the British Isles. I am particularly interested in patterns for garments (and their sources), and whether there is anything analagous to the clothing from the Danish oak coffin burials (Egtved, Skydstrup, etc.). I am also seeking construction details for the 'string skirt' and male 'wrap around tunic' from the oak coffin burials. Thanks in advance. Ben Levick ben@hrofi.demon.co.uk P.S. Does anyone know of any web-sites for Bronze Age Europe? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 12:37:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Irene Joshi Subject: Re: Bronze Age Clothing Have you looked at?: Bronze age fashion. by H.C. Brohol and Margrethe Hald. Copenhagen: Gyldendal, 1948. 74 p. illus. or Costumes of the bronze age in Denmark: contributions to the archaeology and textile history of the bronze age by H.C. Broholm and Margrethe Hald. Copenhagen: Nyt NOrdisk Forlag, 1940. 171 p. illus. On Thu, 25 Apr 1996, ben wrote: >>cut>> > I am also seeking construction details for the 'string skirt' and > male 'wrap around tunic' from the oak coffin burials. > > > Ben Levick > ben@hrofi.demon.co.uk > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 22:39:21 +2 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ella_Lynoure_Rajam=E4ki?=" Subject: Re: Coutil > I have only been able to get it from Raiments/AlterYears. I have never > found it in the fabric stores in the Bay Area or in Seattle. Perhaps the > eastern states get it, or the garment districts of L.A. or New York > City??? Now time for me to ask a stupid question: What is coutil like ? I know it is used for (eg.) corsets and I think it is strong fabric and doesn't scretch much. What fiber is it made of and what kind of weave it has ? Knowing that might help me finding something similar from fabric stores (a tiny sample of fabric would be wonderful... but Net can't handle e-mailing fabric *sigh*). Lynoure ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 14:59:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Agnes Gawne Subject: Re: Coutil On Thu, 25 Apr 1996, [ISO-8859-1] Ella Lynoure Rajam=E4ki wrote: > Now time for me to ask a stupid question: What is coutil like ? > I know it is used for (eg.) corsets and I think it is strong > fabric and doesn't scretch much. What fiber is it made of and > what kind of weave it has ? Knowing that might help me finding > something similar from fabric stores (a tiny sample of fabric > would be wonderful... but Net can't handle e-mailing fabric > *sigh*). The coutil I have had is made of 100% cotton. It is a woven fabric - much like a twill with the twill alternating direction every half-inch, or so. I believe this weaving technique is what stabilizes the weave and prevents twisting of the fabric in the final garment. I would think you might substitute any tightly woven strong fabric.(Cotton duck, perhaps?) Be careful of a denim or any other twill that can easily twist in one direction. You may have a twisting corset as a result. ------------------------------ Date: 25 Apr 96 08:11:44 GMT From: dodom@fogelson.csf.edu (Odom Cheryl TEMPORARY) Subject: coutil I haven't ordered coutil in several years because I haven't needed to make more corsets. The ones I made seem to be indestructible. I used to order it from Finebrand in Los Angeles. This is a company that only carries supplies for corsets and ladies' other undergarments. You might also try Richard the Thread. Los Angeles area as well. Fine Brand 411 S. Wall St. Los Angeles, CA 90013 (213)-629-1446 Richard the Thread 1-800-473-4997 Corset coutil-60" wide-5 yard min.-13.95 yd. Cheryl Odom-costume designer ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 16:07:40 -0700 From: gwjchris@ix.netcom.com (Bill and Glenna Christen) Subject: Re: Waist sizes/corsets You wrote: >The following quote is from "Personal Beauty" (Original title: The Laws of >Health in Relation to the Human Form), 1869,.... >"The circumference of the waist in a woman 5 foot high should not be less >than 25 inches, and from this it should increase half an inch in >circumference for every additional inch in height so that a woman 5 foot 8 >inches high should measure 29 inches around the waist. Of course without >the clothing." The standard of beauty is ever changing, and it was definitely "rounder" in the mid-19th Cent. than it is today. The fashion plates of that era show women with arms so plump they have dimples in their elbows and noticable little double chins. BTW, I remeasured my waist and realized I messed up the first time. (I've never been good with numbers! :-)) My waist is actually 27" not 24". Still 1-1/2" smaller, without a corset, than the 1869 recommendation! (and I thought I needed to diet. ;-) ;-) Glenna Jo Christen gwjchris@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 16:12:33 -0700 (PDT) From: close (Diane Barlow Close) Subject: Quoted text etiquette reminder... I see a number of recent posts that are simply impossible to follow, because there's way too much included quoted text and no separators between new stuff and old stuff, and lots of unnecessary junk at the end of the articles too. Here's a reminder about posting etiquette that'll help everyone make their posts useful to everyone else on the list: 1. Trim the included text, especially "leftover" text at the bottom of an article. This helps IMMENSELY to make digests more readable. Please delete any unnecessary quoted text -- include only enough to make the meaning clear and remove the rest. Don't leave all that extra quoted stuff at the end of a post after you've made your point -- get rid of it. 2. Format your article to under 80 characters wide! Less is better so that your article will still wrap properly if quoted by someone else. It's easier to read shorter lines, too. To read articles formatted to wide margins, many list members have to to some tricky and time-consuming maneuvers. This can become very annoying when it turns out the document is nothing the reader is interested in, and would've been able to easily skip it if the article had been properly formatted in the first place! After doing one of these complicated reformatting maneuvers, it often takes another four steps to go back to mail reading. So avoid this annoyance in the first place by formatting your posts to under 80 characters wide so everyone can read them with ease. 3. Try to use a more descriptive subject than "Re: H-Costume Digest V4 #xxx" for your posts. Subject lines are used by Majordomo to create this list's archive index, so the more concise and descriptive your subject lines, the better and more useable the index becomes! 4. Finally, sign your posts -- many people's systems don't display the "From:" lines, so please sign your posts so they know who is writing! - -- Diane Close Vote now underway: rec.crafts.textiles.marketplace Check out news.announce.newgroups for the complete Call For Votes (CFV). ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 18:32:29 -0500 (CDT) From: Kerri Potratz Subject: Re: Dyes On Tue, 23 Apr 1996 Ches@mail.io.com wrote: > Is it true that industrial dyes will dye ANYTHING? My wonderful sweet husband > purchased a parachute and with a large grin of a 7 year old that just found > his favorite frog handed it to me and said, "Can you dye this?" > > Instead of telling him absolutly not I offered to ask you all. The h-costume > archive speaks of industrial dyes that may or maynot work. Has anyone used > them? Can Ripstop nylon be dyed or painted? What with? (It is a 30 foot > diameter parachute he wants to make a pavillion out of, army green with no > holes and water proofed.) Where can I find industrial dyes, (I live north of > Dallas). And most of all will it still be water proof when we are done? > > Ciao @}\ Well, don't take my word for gospel, but anything treated with water proofing like the army does won't take any kind of dye. The army doesn't like its parachutes changing color on them. You can try, but I wouldn't hope for anything but mottled gray. As far as the waterproofing goes, if it takes the dye, you can be pretty sure that it won't be water proof anymore. just my 2 bits. ==Lady Vitha== /\ / \/ \ *Kerri Potratz**University of South Dakota* / /\ \ *Lady Hrosvitha die Liedweberin < \/ > *The Proto-incipient Colligum of Svathy Sebestia \ /\ / *Kpotratz@sunfish.usd.edu \ \/ / *MFA candaidate at U of North Carolina--Chapel Hill \/ ==If I be waspish, best beware my sting!== Shrew, II.i ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 20:08:23 -0500 (EST) From: LACONSTANCE@delphi.com Subject: Re: re:re: re waists > >Just observe the average height in third world countries which still have > these circumstances...The average height of a woman world wide today is > 4'11''...When I worked with migrant people in a barrio in south Florida I > was one of the taller women at just under five feet tall...some friends who > were in the Peace Corps in South America said that they had a name for most > North American women "vaca" which referred to their height and build...which > was so much taller and more robust than theirs. Anyone who has ever travelled in a Third World Country has surely had this experience. I'm 5'4" tall, and feel like a giant! My husband -- at 6' -- is the object of much curiousity! BTW, Lili, "vaca" means cow! Constance La Lena laconstance@delphi.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 20:07:29 -0500 (EST) From: LACONSTANCE@delphi.com Subject: Dyes > Is it true that industrial dyes will dye ANYTHING? My wonderful sweet husband > purchased a parachute and with a large grin of a 7 year old that just found his > favorite frog handed it to me and said, "Can you dye this?" It is true that industrial dyes will dye ANYTHING -- but the same class of industrial dyes will not dye EVERYTHING. If your parachute is truly nylon, you should be able to dye it with any dye that will dye wool (they react the same, chemically, in dyeing). If it is polyester, you need a class of dyes called "disperse" dyes -- they are difficult, somewhat toxic, and not generally available for home use. Pro-Chem in Massachusetts is an excellent source of dyes, but unfortunately I can't put my hands on their address or phone number. Can anyone else help out here? Constance La Lena laconstance@delphi.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 20:30:44 -0400 From: Gerekr@aol.com Subject: Re: Boots Rachel Mast writes: > I am looking for about knee high boots with 1-2 inch heels. But they > must have good traction. I fence and ride horses in the SCA and need > them to be rather universal. I've looked into english style riding boots > , but they haven't traction enough for wood floors. I was wondering if > anyone has any suggestions on this. I also need them to be some what > period (1300-1400). If you don't mind eastern european, there are boots with heels even from that time period. In: Thompson, M.W. _Novgorod the Great: Excavations at the medieval city directed by A. V. Artsikhovsky and B.A. Kolchin._ New York: Frederick A. Praeger, 1967 LC 67-14709; there is a picture of such a boot and the text says: "Boots are the last type of footwear and were the most complicated in manufacture, having separate vamp, counter, heels, sole, and extention. They required different types of leather and considerable skill in the assembly by the shoemaker. The heel and counter were packed with layers of leather, birch bark or bast to achieve the necessary firmness. Heels were not usual on boots before the fourteenth century, when high or medium heels strengthened with iron became common." Hope this helps. Gary R.D. Walker Gerekr@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Apr 96 02:07:46 UT From: "Susan Carter" Subject: PRO chemical PRO Chemical & Dye P.O. Box 14 Somerset, MA 02726 1-800-2-BUY-DYE ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 00:01:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Gary Rumain Subject: Re: wedding rings history On Tue, 24 Oct 1995, Sarah E. Goodman wrote: > Jews (or at least Jewish women) have worn marriage rings since at least > the 13 hundreds, and probably since the time of the Temple. There are > some lovely community owned "wedding rings" that were used for the > ceremony and then replaced with a plain band from the 14s or so; little > houses and stuff. I apologize for the lateness of this reply - especially if it has long since been answered. But, the rings you are describing are betrothal rings, and yes, many were community owned, especially the large, ornate ones you described. They were worn to show that a woman was betrothed (& either off the market, or that a wedding was to take place soon - I'm not sure)), and only a short time before the wedding - which made perfect sense! Many were actually purely ceremonial and hardly able to be worn at all, while the ones you described would certainly make houseowrk a little hard to do! Yes, they were replaced by plain gold bands - which had its own significance: there should be no openings, or gaps, in the marriage. Thank you for your patience. Susan Cohen (using my husband's site) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 08:49:52 -0400 From: Dale Loberger Subject: Bombazine Does anybody know of a source for bombazine (a twilled silk and wool cloth)? If not, what would be the best cloth to use for an 1850 mourning gown to be worn to a funeral re-enactment? Susannah Eanes, Mantua Maker and Fine Tailoring ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 10:48:51 -0400 From: Dale Loberger Subject: Corset Materials I don't know anyone who carries coutil for corsets, but I have had good luck making corsets with cotton drill. A good source for fabrics like unbleached cotton drill, linsey woolsey, baize, kersey, serge, fine sheer cottons, and hand woven cottons is Kathleen Smith (413-296-4437 or Box 48, West Chesterfield, MA 01048). She also carries vegetable dyes for period colors. Susannah Eanes, Mantua Maker and Fine Tailoring ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 10:56:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Gary Rumain Subject: Re: shoelaces On Sat, 14 Oct 1995 FRIENDC@carleton.edu wrote: > What _are_ those plastic thingys called? You've piqued my interest. > Chandra/Selena Those "little plastic thingies" are called aiglettes (as people here will most undoubtedly tell you) but they are also called "zarfs". For pickiness' sake, I wouldn't call them aiglettes anymore than I would call them pickadils, but, then again, I'm a snob. :) Susan Cohen (My husband lets me use his site, but, as you can see, I've been REAL busy!) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 09:18:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Shea Munroe Subject: Re: Bombazine Try a heavy crepe. It has been mentioned in journels. Several tin-types of the period show a fabric that has a high glossy sheen. Are you familiar with "Who Wore What" by Juanita Leish? Excellent study based on photographs of the 1850-70s period with an emphasis on the 60s. Shea Munroe, Fort Steilacoom Museum On Fri, 26 Apr 1996, Dale Loberger wrote: > Does anybody know of a source for bombazine (a twilled silk and wool > cloth)? If not, what would be the best cloth to use for an 1850 > mourning gown to be worn to a funeral re-enactment? > > Susannah Eanes, Mantua Maker and Fine Tailoring > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 13:08:34 -0400 From: mhamilto@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Marsha Hamilton) Subject: Re: Height >Anyone who has ever travelled in a Third World Country has surely had this >experience. I'm 5'4" tall, and feel like a giant! My husband -- at 6' -- is >the object of much curiousity! I was in rural Mexico once in a crowd of people of Indian (as opposed to Spanish) ancestry. For the first time in my life, I looked over a group of people and saw only the TOPS of everyone's head! Even the men were smaller than me. I'm 5' 2". But I don't remember women having smaller waists. Many had small children. Marsha Hamilton ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 10:16:45 -0700 From: Cheryl Melnick Subject: Collars Quite a while ago, someone asked for a source to purchase detachable men's collars. I found a brochure recently: Gibson Lee, Inc 78 Stone Place Melrose, Massachusetts 02176 (617) 662-6025 Gibson Collars Since 1864 The following products were listed in their brochure with a price list effective 1988: Detachable Collars Gibson Disposable Collars are available in whole and half sizes. Collars are packed 50 of one size and style. Minimum quantity 25 collars. Linene is 100% polished cotton laminated to card stock. Linex is linen textured card stock. (Various styles and materials of collars listed, pricing began at $25 per 25 collars) Shirt Fronts Gibson Disposable Shirt Fronts, made of especially processed paper, in linen or pique finishes, are attachable to Gibson Collars and Gibson neckband shirts. Packed 10 to a bag. Disposible Caps and Cuffs packed 25 to a bag. (Various shirt front styles listed, pricing began at $25 per 25) Neckband shirts, buttons ard various accessory items listed. I have never purchased from this company and do not know if they still are in business. Cheryl ------------------------------ End of H-Costume Digest V4 #102 ******************************* A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, send the command lines: unsubscribe h-costume-digest subscribe h-costume end in the body of a message to majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com. Thanks and enjoy the list!