From: owner-h-costume-digest (H-Costume Digest) To: h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Subject: H-Costume Digest V4 #104 Reply-To: h-costume Sender: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Errors-To: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk H-Costume Digest Monday, April 29 1996 Volume 4, Number 104 Compilation copyright (C) 1996 Diane Barlow Close and Gretchen Miller Use in whole prohibited. Individual articles are the property of the author. Seek permission from that author before reprinting or quoting elsewhere. Important Addresses: Send submissions to: h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com (or reply to this message). Adds/drops/archives: majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com Real, live person: h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Topics: Color Names for the Centuries Genetics Misinfo [was:Re: H-Costume Digest V4 #103] help 1500 masks boots & partlets Re: boots & partlets Re: Oriental knot buttons Re: European Iron-Age ("Celtic") Clothing waistlines Temari was: Oriental Knot Buttons Color Paper Chinese Knots kilts dance costumes chinese ball buttons cartridge pleating kilts ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 13:39:52 -0400 From: Ladnier@aol.com Subject: Color Names for the Centuries I have documented color names for many eras in costume history. I am still needing names for colors used in the following eras: Early Gothic (1300's), Cavalier (1620-1660), Restoration (1660-1710), Early Georgian (1710-1760) and the 1920's. If anyone has this information and willing to share please Email me direct. Please include the bibliographical information. My instructor is a stickler for this. It the list has an interest, I will send the names for the areas I have researched after exams are over May10th. So far, it starts at Late Gothic. Thanks, Penny E. Ladnier, Virginia Commonwealth University s0peladn@cabell.vcu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 20:15:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine Leonard Subject: Genetics Misinfo [was:Re: H-Costume Digest V4 #103] Someone wrote: >My belief is while nutrition is an important factor >genetic is even more important. In the US we see a lot of mixing of >blood lines today between Easter and Western Europeans which I believe >could creat a new blood line itself which is characteristic of being >larger than our ancestors. Lets not forget that the pure bloodlines of >the 14th to 19th centry are greatly deminished in today America. We are >the melting pot of all races and through this are developing our own >race through generations. I apologize for subjecting the list to what amounts to anthro geekness but I can't let this bit of misunderstanding go by. My graduate program would frown sternly at me if I didn't take issue with this. :-) There is no such thing as "genetic purity." Early anthropologists, with their calipers and erroneous theories about race, brain size, and intelligence were instrumental in promoting "Great Chain of Being" ideas about racial hierarchies. Modern physical anthropologists stopped using the term "race" back in the 60s. They substituted the term "populations" instead, not in the interest of political correctness but of precision. There are no races. There are geographic populations who share common traits that evolved as adaptations to the conditions they lived under. The classic example is skin color. If we look at the equator and move north we find that skin color gets lighter the further north we get. I'll spare you all the scientific jargon about vitamin D and rickets. Too little melanin close to the equator leads to skin cancer, too much melanin too far north leads to rickets. Humans are truly amazing creatures in the ways they adapt to circumstances. :-) It is also a little known fact that human genetic diversity is greatest *within* populations rather than between populations. If the entire human species were to be obliterated with the exception of a single geographic population, 85% of human genetic variation would still exist within that single population. Back to costuming! :-) Cate Catherine Leonard | lunar23@voicenet.com | cleonard@astro.ocis.temple.edu Mehitabel: 1981 Honda CM400 Custom DoD#1482 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 16:09:42 -0400 From: donhupe@loon.norlink.net (don hupe) Subject: help 1500 masks Greetings all, I have been reading the list now for a few months and want to venture a question, I am helping with a fund raiser for a great charity and the the theme is a masked 1500 ball, any one with any titles of books with pictures or any other leads - please e-mail me. Having a hard time up here in our small city, Masks and what they were constructed of - any lead would help, thank you Barb at donhupe@norlink.net DONEUUALD and BARBATA of ARTH WEN Acting Seneschal of Mare Amethystinum ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 09:26:31 +1 From: Jon Bagguley Subject: boots & partlets Hi, I new to this group but as you've hit a couple of subjects in my field I thought add my thoughts. For boots to be period for 1300-1400 it is indeed true that they should not have heels, these didn't come in till Elizabethan times and only low ones then. Before that you raised yourself off the ground by wearing patterns over your shoes - a thick sole with straps to hold it on. I can see if you're used to riding in heels this may course you some problems but it is blindingly obvious unlike sticking thin rubber to the soles which is a good idea if you badly need traction. Someone implied leather soles give you traction on hard flooring like wood well all I can say is the bruises I have from slipping on polished stairs don't give me that impression : ) I can't even get away with rubber soles for what I do though sometimes I would love too! Styles of boots varied but a basic fairly plain boot that is either laced up the inside of the leg or fairly loose soft leather boot which is tighten by straps and buckles at several points is the norm for a riding boot. On partlets I would like to back up several other people. It is always sleeveless and is just the shoulders and collar tied under the arms to keep it on. If its a fine material its worn under the dress and in portraits the shift top is often visible, and sometimes embroidered, underneath along the neckline of the dress. The other option is to make it out of either black or the same material as the dress and use it to convert a square-neck dress to a high neck dress, very useful if you do young Henry VIII one day and old Henry the next. This was around in late Henrican if not before for those 'of fashion'. The beginnings of this item however are at least the previous century where it was made in white and worn be women working in the fields and other outdoor jobs very much a working garment. Its surprising how often fashion goes up as well as down. Hope I didn't sound too picky it hard to know how 'authentic' someone wants to be. The group I'm with do public shows and sell themselves on being very 'authentic' which can be real hard work to live up to but makes it hard to settle for nearly right even when it's O.K. Esther Reeves Holiday what's that? .... Travel miles to a castle, put on a performance then be too knackered to look round ... that's a Holiday? - ---------------- Posted by Jon. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 12:12:10 GMT From: db-cos@westmore.demon.co.uk (David Brewer) Subject: Re: boots & partlets In message Jon Bagguley writes: > > Styles of boots varied but a basic fairly plain boot that is either laced up > the inside of the leg or fairly loose soft leather boot which is tighten by > straps and buckles at several points is the norm for a riding boot. Wouldn't a boot side-laced up the inside be a little harsh on the horses flanks? Ditto all manner of straps and buckles. I don't know because I don't ride. Anybody? - -- David Brewer ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 08:04:20 -0600 (MDT) From: gottfred@agt.net (Jeff Gottfred) Subject: Re: Oriental knot buttons >I am having trouble finding a source for duplicating the fabric knot buttons >prevalent on Mongol and Oriental caftans. Would appreciate any sources or >information on materials and technique needed to do them myself. I'm not familiar with the knots in question, but if they are the oriental ball knots seen on some garments here in North America, try _The Morrow Guide to Knots_, by Mario Bigon and Guido Regazzoni, Quill. ISBN 0-688-01226-4 pp. 192-193 (Monkey's fist) & pp. 202-203 (Chinese button knot) . They say the Chinese button knot "is thousands of years old"--is that good enough for you? ;-) The book is excellent for learning knots, as it is full of step-by-step full colour illustrations. They also seem to know their knot history. - --Angela Gottfred gottfred@agt.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Apr 96 09:02 CDT From: ROBERT@UIAMVS.WEEG.UIOWA.EDU Subject: Re: European Iron-Age ("Celtic") Clothing This is a great set of questions. I hope people will respond to the whole, not to you in particular. As far as weave structures go, have you seen North European Textiles until AD 1000 by Lise Bender Jorgensen? (Aarhus, Denmark : University Press, 1992. ISBN 8772884169) It talks about the types of weaves found from the Neolithic Age to 1000. It has a very long list of many of the textile remains - these may give you leads to surviving garment remains for you area of interest. Sorry I can't give you more information about the book - I just checked it out and haven't had a chance to look at it ------- very carefully. > I'm interested in types of garments, type of textiles, weaves, > clothing fasteners, jewellery, etc. I'm also interested in other > small personal items such as combs, pouches, knives, etc. ****************************** Wendy Robertson Serials Cataloging University of Iowa (319) 335-5894 wendy-robertson@uiowa.edu ****************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 11:23:21 -0400 From: Dale Loberger Subject: waistlines In regards to the waistline question, I tend to agree with those of you who state that people in general were smaller, due to diet and general health being somewhat poorer. Tasha Tudor states in one of her books, regarding her vast collection of antique clothing, that most of her gowns are too small to fit anyone but children today, even though their style indicates that they were obviously adult garments. However, there were, as are today, a goodly number of women who were larger than average, and hence we have many actual garments with waistlines measuring anywhere from 17" to 33" in many cases. I cover the period between 1750 and 1910 in my general line of work and my research has shown that fashion magazines such as Godey’s and Harper’s illustrate the ideal, as Vogue and Cosmo may do for us today, but how many of us really dress and look like those models? It is a much more satisfying thing to study photographs and written records of the period; they seem to give more of a feel for what people actually wore and looked like. Saundra Ros Altman (owner, Past Patterns) gives an example of a dressmaker’s measuring chart of the late 1800’s. I am typing part of it below for your perusal: Name Front Bust Neck Shoulder Back Waist S. M. Hicks 12 31 14 4 14 29 M. Har____ 13 35 14 3 16 28 M. Hutchinson 13 37 14 5 15 33 L. Johnson 11 40 15 5 15 38 M. K_____ 13 42 16 5 16 40 These measurements are quite comparable to what I see today in the women that I work with. My two cents is this: if you are the type of person who is concerned with silhouette and waist size and proportion and all that, great. Your past persona should reflect this. If not, don’t worry about it. Back then, people were more practical than we give them credit for. Corsets were worn more for support (like today’s underwear), to keep clothing from wrinkling and to provide the proper silhouette, be it cone-shaped or pigeon-breasted or whatever, and only a very foolish and vain woman (of which there were certainly some) would have risked her health and ability to move by habitually wearing an overly tight corset day after day after day. Susannah Eanes, Mantua Maker and Fine Tailoring (also using my husband’s address) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Apr 96 10:01:12 PDT From: Ches@mail.io.com Subject: Temari was: Oriental Knot Buttons On Sat, 27 Apr 1996 21:08:36 -0500 (CDT) Richard Hintsala wrote: >I am in the process of doing a series of garb for the court of Christopher >in Calontier (SCA). Most of the research for it has been completed but I am >having trouble finding a source for duplicating the fabric knot buttons >prevailent on Mongol and Oriental caftans. Would appreciate any sources or >information on materials and technique needed to do them myself. > > > Sashatec Nicoli Koliskov __.oO*Oo.__ I am looking at my Temari book and it describes that the cloth used is for stablization to sew part of the design in place. The book is called:The craft of Temari by Mary Wood. It is sold by Search Press Ltd Department B, Wellwood, North Farm Road, Tunbridge Wells, Kent TN2 3DR, Tel. (0892)510 850, Fax (0892) 515 903. I found it at the Half Price books store, There were quite a few of them so try at yours first. I goes into a lot of detail for a small book. The history of each step is explained and you can problably write to the arthor for a bibl. She is from Onterio Can. I remember an article in Threads magazine a year ago on making knotted buttons and frog closures. I posted it a while ago, check the archives, it basically said the navy and sailors knots were the source of the concepts! So find a sailor's knot book and it may have a bibliography you seek. Ciao @}\ Ches @}----`--,-- http://www.io.com/~ches/ @}/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 12:07:25 -0400 From: Ladnier@aol.com Subject: Color Paper I am down to the final writing of the paper. I have every period covered in Costume History except Restoration and the 1920's. I have no color names for either of these periods. Help! Search the book shelf, quickly. Thank you to all the people who have sent me color names. This has truly been a group effort. You won't believe the length of the paper. 25 pages of Excel. After finals, May 10th, I will start posting the color name results by period with sources. This will make it easier to access in the archives. The paper starts with The Middle Ages and at this point, ends with the Edwardian/WWI period (1100-1919). Please start looking! Email me direct. Ready... Set...Go!!! $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $ $$ $$ $$ $$ $$ $$ $$ $$ $$ $$ $$ $$ $$ $$ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ Pennies from Heaven, where it’s always reigning money, or at least my kids think so. Penny E. Ladnier, Virginia Commonwealth University s0peladn@cabell.vcu.edu $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $$ $$ $$ $$ $$ $$ $$ $$ $$ $$ $$ $$ $$ $$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 10:23:43 -0700 From: Subject: Chinese Knots A book with lots of Chinese knots, both simple & Elaborate is "Chinese Knotting" byLydia Chen, Echo Books, 1981. The knots can be used for jewelry, pendants (like the belt pendants in historical Chinese clothing), fasteners, & hanging ornaments. Alison ------------------------------ Date: 29 Apr 1996 15:04:33 -0500 From: "Witt Meggan" Subject: kilts I am looking for information on the historically correct construction of a clan kilt; is there a pattern or instructions available to the general public/seamstress, or is this a secret locked in the mists of Scotland? Modern patterning would be fine (as opposed to perhaps the period original.) The clan I would be working with is Davidson - is there any way for me to purchase the tartan without a trip over-seas? Thanks! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 15:23:04 -0400 From: eresh@infl.com (JoAnne Eresh) Subject: dance costumes I'm trying to hookup with others who design and construct dance costumes, but not ballroom dance. I design and sew costumes for kids ages 5 to 18 for jazz, lyrical, and ballet solo and group dances. These kids take part in national competitions such as Headliners, American Dance Awards, Starpower, etc. The design problems with such costumes involve fit, movement, and dance/song appropriateness. Since dancers are usually scored on the costume's originality, fit, and appropriateness, the costumes often play a key role in a dancer's successful scores in competitions. Any leads or contacts or interests along these lines would be greatly appreciated. JoAnne Eresh LRDC 3939 O'Hara Street Pittsburgh. PA 15260 412-624-8544 fax 412-624-1470 home 412-563-0869 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 12:38:46 -0700 From: Susan Fatemi Subject: chinese ball buttons Oh goodie, a question I can answer. The best source for info. on Mongol costumes 19th-early 20th c. is "Mongol Costumes" by H. Hansen, Thames and Hudson, 1993. ca $50 As far as I know, it is still in print -- check your library. If you look at the pictures and others of Chinese costume, you will see that frequently the "ball" is a small metal or glass or other material ball or bead, strung on (usually) black cord, with a simple loop on the other side to hold the garment closed. For making Chinese knot buttons, an old book (ca. 1974) called "Exotic Styling" (in the Time-Life Art of Sewing series) has the best diagrams as far as I'm concerned. Other old sewing books from that period, e.g. Vogue, Singer, etc. might also have diagrams. A good current book is Lydia Chen's "Chinese Knotting" (5th ed., 1994) In the Clothilde catalogue (sewing notions) there are a couple of other books on knotting, but I don't know the names. If you are doing Mongol Empire period, you cannot necessarily extrapolate backwards. ONe of the few extant garments from this period, a long tunic or short caftan, has a very full skirt and several *ties* at the side, no buttons. YOu might want to have a look at "5000 years of Chinese costume" and compare garments from that period. For materials, depending on your sources, ordinary rattail or whatever kind of braid you can find at your fabric store would do. If you don't find what you want, you might try a yarn shop. You can also use bias-cut silk (buy mens ties at the thrift store) to cover cord and make your own loops, buttons, frogs. hope this helps Susan Fatemi susanf@eerc.berkeley.edu >Date: Sat, 27 Apr 1996 21:08:36 -0500 (CDT) >From: Richard Hintsala >Subject: Oriental Knot Buttons > >I am in the process of doing a series of garb for the court of Christopher >in Calontier (SCA). Most of the research for it has been completed but I am >having trouble finding a source for duplicating the fabric knot buttons >prevailent on Mongol and Oriental caftans. Would appreciate any sources or >information on materials and technique needed to do them myself. > > > Sashatec Nicoli Koliskov > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 13:37:03 -0700 From: bino@ella.mills.edu (Kendra VanCleave) Subject: cartridge pleating i'm about to make my first attempt at cartridge pleating, and i have afew questions...first, does it matter what kind of thread that i use? and second, how large should i make my gathering stitches? i'm using 6 gores thanks Kendra Van Cleave bino@ella.mills.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 13:42:44 -0700 From: Joshua Porterfield Subject: kilts I too would enjoy locating some Tartan wool easily with out going over seas. Joshua ------------------------------ End of H-Costume Digest V4 #104 ******************************* A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, send the command lines: unsubscribe h-costume-digest subscribe h-costume end in the body of a message to majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com. Thanks and enjoy the list!