From: owner-h-costume-digest (H-Costume Digest) To: h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Subject: H-Costume Digest V4 #105 Reply-To: h-costume Sender: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Errors-To: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk H-Costume Digest Tuesday, April 30 1996 Volume 4, Number 105 Compilation copyright (C) 1996 Diane Barlow Close and Gretchen Miller Use in whole prohibited. Individual articles are the property of the author. Seek permission from that author before reprinting or quoting elsewhere. Important Addresses: Send submissions to: h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com (or reply to this message). Adds/drops/archives: majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com Real, live person: h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Topics: Re: boots & partlets Davidson kilt Iron-Age Britain - metalwork - citations Re: Oriental knot buttons Re: Davidson kilt Re: Cartridge Pleating Re: Partlets - Apology Softening linen Re: antro terms and a final thaught Re: Softening linen Color Paper Complete Marriage Cartridge pleating Re: Marriage Re: antro terms ... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 20:28:27 +0100 (BST) From: James Lynn Subject: Re: boots & partlets David Brewer wrote > >Wouldn't a boot side-laced up the inside be a little harsh on >the horses flanks? Ditto all manner of straps and buckles. > >I don't know because I don't ride. Anybody? > >-- >David Brewer > I don't ride either, but it's probably worth noting that the medieval riding style was with the legs straight and slightly forward. This allowed the rider essentially to stand in the stirrups and use the horse as a fighting platform. Given the large spurs that this style of riding led to, I would be surprised if the horses cared about the smoothness of the sides of the boots. - -- James Lynn Home: james@biometry.demon.co.uk Work: james.lynn@bbsrc.ac.uk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 15:41:58 -0500 (CDT) From: "SHERYL J. NANCE" Subject: Davidson kilt >I am looking for information on the historically correct construction of a >clan kilt; is there a pattern or instructions available to the general >public/seamstress, or is this a secret locked in the mists of Scotland? >Modern patterning would be fine (as opposed to perhaps the period original.) >The clan I would be working with is Davidson - is there any way for me to >purchase the tartan without a trip over-seas? Thanks! Are you asking how to construct a kilt? Modern kilts are sewn & you may be able to find a pattern for one, but originally kilts were simply wrapped & draped around the body. I believe that someone has posted instructions on this list before as to how to wrap & wear a great kilt. Maybe they will post them again. As far as I know, the kilts themselves didn't vary from clan to clan - only the pattern of the tartan. (but my area of interest is more English than Scottish) I did look up the Davidson tartan in _The Clans and Tartans of Scotland_ by Robert Bain. It's very attractive. Green background with some red & blue lines. Good luck on making the kilt! Sheryl J. Nance ...one of the secret masters of Kansas City MO Public Library the world: a librarian. They p_sheryl@kcpl.lib.mo.us control information. Don't ever p**s one off. - Spider Robinson, _The Callahan Touch_ (Opinions expressed in this message do not reflect the viewpoint of the Kansas City MO Public Library.) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Apr 96 16:20 CDT From: ROBERT@UIAMVS.WEEG.UIOWA.EDU Subject: Iron-Age Britain - metalwork - citations I haven't looked at these books, but they look like they might be useful for what you are looking for. Similar books covering later times have been useful for my husband's research in Anglo-Saxon metalwork. AUTHOR: Armstrong, Edmund Clarence Richard, 1879- TITLE: Catalogue of Irish gold ornaments in the collection of the Royal Irish Academy. EDITION: 2d ed. PUBLISHED: Dublin, Stationery Office (1920) PHYSICAL DETAILS: 104 p. illus., plates. 27 cm. AUTHOR: Brailsford, J. W. TITLE: Early Celtic masterpieces from Britain in the British Museum / John Brailsford. PUBLISHED: London : Published for the Trustees of the British Museum by British Museum Publications, c1975. PHYSICAL DETAILS: 103 p. : ill. (some col.) ; 29 cm. AUTHOR: Eogan, George. TITLE: The hoards of the Irish later Bronze Age / by George Eogan. PUBLISHED: Dublin : University College, 1983. PHYSICAL DETAILS: xxv, 331 p. : ill. ; 30 cm. AUTHOR: Hattatt, Richard. TITLE: Iron age and Roman brooches : a second selection of brooch from the author's collection / Richard Hattatt. PUBLISHED: Oxford : Oxbow Books, 1985. PHYSICAL DETAILS: 242 p. : ill., map ; 25 cm. AUTHOR: Kilbride-Jones, H. E. TITLE: Zoomorphic penannular brooches / by H. E. Kilbride -Jones. PUBLISHED: (London) : Society of Antiquaries of London ; distributed Thames and Hudson, 1980. PHYSICAL DETAILS: viii, 153 p. : ill., maps ; 28 cm. AUTHOR: MacGregor, Morna. TITLE: Early Celtic art in North Britain : a study of decorative metalwork from the third century B.C. to the third century A.D. / Morna MacGregor. PUBLISHED: Leicester (Eng.) : Leicester University Press, ; (Atlantic Highlands) N.J. : distributed by Humanities Press, 1976. PHYSICAL DETAILS: 2 v. : ill. ; 26 cm. AUTHOR: Raftery, Barry. TITLE: A catalogue of Irish Iron Age antiquities / by Barry Raftery. PUBLISHED: Marburg : (Philipps-Universitat Marburg, Vorgeschichtliche Seminar) ; Berlin : Wasmuth KG (distributor), 1983 . PHYSICAL DETAILS: 2 v. : ill., maps ; 30 cm. AUTHOR: Royal Ontario Museum. TITLE: A catalogue of British and Irish prehistoric bronzes in the Royal Ontario Museum / Francis Pryor ; with drawings by Jirina Hosek and the author and metal analyses by Paul Craddock. PUBLISHED: Toronto : The Museum, 1980. PHYSICAL DETAILS: 80 p. : ill. ; 29 cm. AUTHOR: Ryan, Michael, 1947- TITLE: Metal craftsmanship in early Ireland / Michael Ryan. PUBLISHED: Dublin : Town House and Country House, 1993. PHYSICAL DETAILS: 47 p. : ill., some col. ; 24 cm. AUTHOR: Stead, I. M. (Ian Mathieson) TITLE: Celtic art : in Britain before the Roman conquest / I.M. Stead. PUBLISHED: Cambridge, Mass. : Harvard University Press, 1985. PHYSICAL DETAILS: 72 p. : ill. (some col.) ; 22 cm. TITLE: Tresors d'Irlande : Paris, Galeries nationales du Grand Palais, 23 octobre 1982-17 janvier 1983. PUBLISHED: (Paris : Association francaise d'action artistique), 1982. PHYSICAL DETAILS: 256 p. : ill. (some col.) ; 27 cm. ****************************** Wendy Robertson Serials Cataloging University of Iowa (319) 335-5894 wendy-robertson@uiowa.edu ****************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 15:02:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Conrad Hodson Subject: Re: Oriental knot buttons On Mon, 29 Apr 1996, Jeff Gottfred wrote: > >I am having trouble finding a source for duplicating the fabric knot buttons > >prevalent on Mongol and Oriental caftans. Would appreciate any sources or > >information on materials and technique needed to do them myself. The _Ashley Book of Knots_ has a whole chapter on them (as well as chapters on every other type of knot you've ever heard of. Not the best beginner's instruction, but after you get the idea they have clear drawings and diagrams of many different styles. Try any good library or used book store; it's often in the sailing section. Conrad Hodson ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 15:39:58 -0700 From: gwjchris@ix.netcom.com (Bill and Glenna Christen) Subject: Re: Davidson kilt You wrote: >The clan I would be working with is Davidson - is there any way for >me to purchase the tartan without a trip over-seas? FYI, Unless you are interested in creating a modern kilt, it is my understanding (based on other's research) that the concept of specific clan tartans is a Victorian era creation and not one of long standing Scottish tradition as many are lead to believe. Glenna Jo Christen gwjchris@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 19:30:26 -0400 From: HMHousman@aol.com Subject: Re: Cartridge Pleating USE HEAVY THREAD!!! You will be so sorry if you use regular thread (or cheap thread) and it breaks!! It's been awhile, but I think it was Coat Button Hole Thread I've used with tremendous success. You can get it at any fabric store. I personally spaced my pleats an inch apart, but I'm six foot and use six yards of fabric. I've seen both smaller and larger spacing that look nice. Someone else may have a better suggestion for your proportions. Hope this helps, Heather Housman ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 19:30:33 -0400 From: HMHousman@aol.com Subject: Re: Partlets - Apology I want to apologize for my erroneous information on partlets. I was the one that stated partlets had sleeves. Forgive me. For convenience and weather reasons, we at the Southern California Ren Faire have incorporated the partlet and chemise into one garment. No it is not accurate, but we have found it to be an acceptable derivation for the conditions we work in. There are some that use both items or only a chemise, but most people that wear partlets have added sleeves. If anyone is interested in more specific reasons why we have done this I would be glad to respond privately. Needless to say, when I gave directions on how to make a partlet I was not around my documentation and was simply remembering the steps I have done in the past to make one. Once again I apologize. Heather Housman ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 20:54:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Judy Gerjuoy Subject: Softening linen I need help in speeding the softening process of linen. Does anyone know of anyway to speed up the softening process? We've got some folks in clothes that just don't have enough drape yet & we don't want to wait 5 years ... Thanks! Jaelle/judy jaelle@access.digex.net If the world were merely seductive, that would be easy. If it were merely challenging, that would be no problem. But I arise in the morning torn between a desire to improve the world, and a desire to enjoy the world. This makes it hard to plan the day. - E. B. White ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Apr 96 19:59:41 CDT From: bednarek@tidalwave.med.ge.com (Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971 ~BHOSVWZ#097) Subject: Re: antro terms and a final thaught Do to my poor wording I got recieved a little bit of correction. Catherine wrote: > There is no such thing as "genetic purity." Early anthropologists, > with their calipers and erroneous theories about race, brain size, and > intelligence were instrumental in promoting "Great Chain of Being" ideas > about racial hierarchies. Also pureness of the races is not what was I was thinking of in the terms of Nazi Germany either. What I'm refering to is that in different geographic areas different human characteristic have a tendency to occur more often. When people with these same tendencies select mates as that have simular characteristics this genetic pool becomes gradually more simular. Cathrine further wrote: > If the entire human species were to be > obliterated with the exception of a single geographic population, 85% of > human genetic variation would still exist within that single population. This is news to me. However not surprising. You will note though that 15% of the genitic variations are missing. Is this the 15% that makes a Dane taller than Pigmey. Or gives the orientals a different eye lid shape than a European? And what then explains the height difference between Americans and other Europeans? Now my final thaughts. When were the first commercial mass produced corsets created. If we or someone could locat there production numbers we probably would have a much better idea on what was the norm. Sorry but some dressmakers list of 4 or 20 customers to me does not seem like a large enough data base. Has anyone seen or heard of any production records or sales records of the early departmant stores. Perhaps this would give us the amo we need to end this agelass question on waist sizes? Dennis ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 20:17:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: Softening linen On Mon, 29 Apr 1996, Judy Gerjuoy wrote: > I need help in speeding the softening process of linen. > > Does anyone know of anyway to speed up the softening process? We've got > some folks in clothes that just don't have enough drape yet & we don't > want to wait 5 years ... Since the softening process is primarily a physical breakdown of the fibers, I'd say the most efficient method would be to toss them in the dryer on "fluff" (or whatever the no-heat cycle is called these days) for the better part of a day. Clean the lint filter at regular intervals. (Which shouldn't be too difficult since the no-heat cycles are generally limited to 15 minutes or so at a time.) Heather Rose Jones ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 02:24:19 -0400 From: Ladnier@aol.com Subject: Color Paper Complete To all, Many, many thanks to all the people who helped me with my research paper, "Color Names Through the Centuries." Your quick responses meant a great deal to me. It ended up being 32 pages long and with 27 sources. You guys and gals are great. Look for the first posting of the periods after May 10th. It will be posted over several days. Thanks, again, Penny $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $ $$ $$ $$ $$ $$ $$ $$ $$ $$ $$ $$ $$ $$ $$ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ Pennies from Heaven, where it’s always reigning money, or at least my kids think so. Penny E. Ladnier, Virginia Commonwealth University s0peladn@cabell.vcu.edu $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $$ $$ $$ $$ $$ $$ $$ $$ $$ $$ $$ $$ $$ $$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ ------------------------------ Date: 30 Apr 96 11:01:00 GMT From: Mrs C S Yeldham Subject: Marriage Lilli said "There have been many studies of church marriage records which sho the average age of marriage among the general population was around 13 or 14 until quite recently." I really have to challenge this. Are you sure you are talking about England (the only country to have widespread church records back to the 16th century - The Act providing for the recording of Births Marriages and Deaths under Henry VIII was the first national system for this recording), although there are city records prior to that - so there are no country-wide records before that)? All the surveys I know of, whether city or country based, show an average age of marriage of non-aristorcrats of at least 18, and often substantially more, in 15th an 16th century England, for agricultural workers as well as craftspeople,. it was 25 (women) and 27 (men). Even where aristocrats were married earlier, which was solely due to a desire to control property and set up family alliances, there is evidence that the children did not live as man and wife. The girl might be brought up by either family, it varied, but sexual intercourse was strongly discouraged. As for height, there has been a recent survey of 80 15th century skeletons found at Wharram Percy, an abandoned medieval village in Yorkshire. The average height was 2 inches less than the modern average. Not a lot, I would argue, especially as I am 5' 2"! They also show a reduced rate of leprosy from previous centuries, and ricketts - both linked to poor diet. Apparently the length of the forearms may indicate that medieval people were more ambidextrous than modern people, that there was less emphasis on being right-handed! I include work I have personally done on original church records - on the early to late 19th century on a parish called Brockworth which is just outside the city of Gloucester. The average age of those where the age could be traced (there was a lot of movement in and out of the parish) was 18 - 20, excluding second marriages. It seems to be to be an area where some exceptions have been generalised to make a general rule quite inauthentically. It is always dangerous to look at the modern 3rd world and extrapolate that things were similar in the medieval period - conditions are very different. For example, one reason the birth rate is so high in modern 3rd world countries, I understand, is that having many children is the only way to ensure that at least some survive to support you in old age - which implies other support systems are either lacking or inadequate (or not trusted). The medieval birth rate (at least of recorded, surviving children) is much lower than the 19th century English rate, or the modern 3rd world rate. One factor may be the guild system and religious associations, discussed by Duffy in his 'Throwing down the Altars', which not only acted as expressions of religious feeling, or to maintain trade standards, but also supported members who were sick, and the children and widows of dead members. BTW if you look at the 16th century, that was also a period of enclosures - see Sir Thomas More on 'sheep eating men'. Elizabeth I's waist measurement was 26", in the corset recently found at Westminster, not particularly small in a woman corseted all her life. As for Empress Elizabeth (wife of the last Hapsburg Emperor?) there was a recent article about her in History Today (UK publication), specifically on her diet and eating habits, which seemed to identify her as anorexic, if not bulimic, an obsessive exerciser, she would go on extremely restricted diets if her weight went over 110 pounds (I think it was). My main point about all this social history (tho' I think its difficult to separate costume from the context in which it was worn) is that we not only tend to see the past though our own prejudices, there is also a tendancy to think of things always getting better. Combine that with the appalling social conditions under the Victorians, never mind comparison with modern 3rd world conditions, and of course the medieval conditions must have been even worse. This is not necessarily the case, and without believing in a 'Merrie England', I think the 15th and 16th centuries were actually not too bad for most people, at least in England. I am not denying the physical hard work needed to achieve anything, problems with clean water etc, but there is a reverse side too, which should not be forgotten. Caroline ------------------------------ Date: 30 Apr 96 11:24:00 GMT From: Mrs C S Yeldham Subject: Cartridge pleating What are you pleating? I am surprised whatever it is is gored - I've only ever cartridge pleated straight pieces of fabric and the stretch in the pleating gives enough shape (ie it is tight to the band at one edge and the pleat broadens slightly as it stretches out). The thread to do the cartridge pleat along the fabric needs to be strong enough to take the weight and not to knot in the lengths you need (5, 6 or 7 yards). The crucial one however is the one sewing the gathered pleats to the band - that you do not want to break! Caroline ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 10:51:50 -0400 From: rebus@madbbs.com Subject: Re: Marriage caroline wrote: > >I really have to challenge this. Are you sure you are talking about >England (the only country to have widespread church records back to the >16th century - The Act providing for the recording of Births Marriages and >Deaths under Henry VIII was the first national system for this recording), >although there are city records prior to that - so there are no >country-wide records before that)? Why no I was discussing European ages of marraige, I had assumed you all were too. Perhaps I missed a post. There is an artifact in the marraige statistics that tends to elevate the "average" figure. (For non-math people you get an average by taking all the data and dividing the resulting sum by the number of actual figures used.) What elevates the figure is that most Men married several times at (obviously) increasing ages. Most Women married once and died in childbed (the most common cause of death for women until the 20th century). For example: Ralph married at: 13, again at 20 and 30 his average age of marraige is (63 divided by 3)=21 this would give you the impression that 21 is a significant figure...When, of course, Ralph first married at 13...When you look at the church statistics you have to see if someone had the presence of mind to check for the most frequent age of marraige in the data.. Pax, Lili Lili Pintea-Reed Adjunct Prof. Psy. SUNY/Jamestown rebus@madbbs.com http://www.madbbs.com/rebus/rebus.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 08:00:12 -0700 (PDT) From: close (Diane Barlow Close) Subject: Re: antro terms ... Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971 ~BHOSVWZ#097 wrote: > Mrs C S Yeldham wrote: > > There is no such thing as "genetic purity." Early anthropologists, > [snip] > Also pureness of the races is not what was I was thinking of in the terms > of Nazi Germany either. What I'm refering to is that in different > geographic areas different human characteristic have a tendency to > occur more often. When people with these same tendencies select mates [snip] Anyone interested in exploring anthropological terms and/or tendencies, or genetics misinformation, etc., (ie. the stuff that isn't directly related to costuming) further should do so off-list, via direct e-mail, with the interested parties. Thanks! - -- Diane Close Vote now underway: rec.crafts.textiles.marketplace Check out news.announce.newgroups for the complete Call For Votes (CFV). ------------------------------ End of H-Costume Digest V4 #105 ******************************* A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, send the command lines: unsubscribe h-costume-digest subscribe h-costume end in the body of a message to majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com. Thanks and enjoy the list!