From: owner-h-costume-digest (H-Costume Digest) To: h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Subject: H-Costume Digest V4 #108 Reply-To: h-costume Sender: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Errors-To: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk H-Costume Digest Thursday, May 2 1996 Volume 4, Number 108 Compilation copyright (C) 1996 Diane Barlow Close and Gretchen Miller Use in whole prohibited. Individual articles are the property of the author. Seek permission from that author before reprinting or quoting elsewhere. Important Addresses: Send submissions to: h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com (or reply to this message). Adds/drops/archives: majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com Real, live person: h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Topics: satin piping RE: 1840's Bodices Current magazine of interest RE: 1840's Bodices Re: Davidson kilt Corsets Re: kilts Re: satin piping Re: Source for Fringe Costuming Factors (was 1840's bodice) softening linen Reenactment Question Re: Corsets Tartan use by Clans/Families RE: softening linen RE: softening linen ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 2 May 1996 08:30:30 -0800 From: "Karen Lovejoy" Subject: satin piping Does anyone know of a source for satin piping, either here in the Seattle area or a mail order source. Thanks Hmmm... I wonder ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 09:25:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Shea Munroe Subject: RE: 1840's Bodices I agree - we do have to consider so much more than the fashion mags, photographs, and the select garments that were saved from daily wear. May I start another thread by asking what other factors do the rest of you take into consideration when contemplating garments or (for people who do living history) trying to figure out the daily duties and clothing of your persona. My base questions include among others, location, nationality, economic background, marital status, and recent travels. Thanks, Shea Munroe - The Fort On Wed, 1 May 1996, Susan Carter wrote: > Just a thought - wouldn't front or back closing relate also to whether or not > the woman had someone, as in maid, to do up the back closure? Once again we > encounter the question of economic level of the surviving garments and those > able to follow the latest illustrated fashions as opposed to the general > population. > > Su > sucarter@msn.com > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 11:42:15 CST From: "Cassandra McCraw" Subject: Current magazine of interest Greetings, I just picked up a magazine that may interest many of you. This is the 1996 issue of "Victorial Treasures," published by the Better Home and Gardens Special Interest Publications. The article has a teaser on the front cover - Yesterday's Fashion, Dressing the Gibson Girl. The illustrated article begins on page 64 and includes photos of the under garments as well as the front and back versions of a day gown. Of particular interest is a front and back view of the corset. The article also includes a short piece about Saundra Ros Altman of Past Patterns, who created the patterns for the clothing in the article. She is wearing an 1880 bustle dress credited to the Warren County Historical Museum of Lebanon Ohio. The magazine also has instructions on making some costume accessories and many decorative needlework pieces for the home. There is also an article on cameo jewelry. Even though my interest is in Medieval and Italian Renaissance, I thought it was well worth the cost of $4.99. Amazing what you can find at the grocery store these days! Cassandra McCraw Special Collections Division, University of Arkansas Libraries E-MAIL: CMCCRAW@SATURN.UARK.EDU ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 13:17:54 -0400 From: rebus@madbbs.com Subject: RE: 1840's Bodices Dear Sue, At 08:52 PM 5/1/96 -0500, you wrote: > >Just a thought - wouldn't front or back closing relate also to whether or not >the woman had someone, as in maid, to do up the back closure? Once again we >encounter the question of economic level of the surviving garments and those >able to follow the latest illustrated fashions as opposed to the general >population. > >Su >sucarter@msn.com This is a good point. Most upper class women have even from the Dark Ages put their children with a Wet-nurse and then bound their breasts and drank sage tea to dry up their milk...A back closed fashion may have reflected this upper class reality as well as the need for and ability to pay for the extra help to dress ones self... In America the Victorian Feminists who derived much of their philosophy from the Christian Transendental movement, saw as an act of female solidarity, support, and health the need to nurse ones children and wear "healthy" clothing, so one gets the "Health" corsets and bloomers of the late 1800's and lots of front closure...in America...My Grandmothers told me women would even sit on the front porches of their homes with a shawl or a large lace handcerchief draped over the nursing baby's head to effectively disguise the situation enough for Victorian modesty...Having nursed my son until eight months I can say a front closure certainly is necessary or a very loose top that one could tuck the baby under and be able to swap sides to get both breasts for feeding...Perhaps that's why back closure feel into disuse so quickly when mass marketing of clothing started in the last century....I'm not sure what they were doing in Europe...Lili Lili Pintea-Reed Adjunct Prof. Psy. SUNY/Jamestown rebus@madbbs.com http://www.madbbs.com/rebus/rebus.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 May 1996 14:05:00 -0700 From: Veda Crewe Joseph Subject: Re: Davidson kilt > FYI, Unless you are interested in creating a modern kilt, it is my > understanding (based on other's research) that the concept of specific > clan tartans is a Victorian era creation and not one of long standing > Scottish tradition as many are lead to believe. > > Glenna Jo Christen > gwjchris@ix.netcom.com This is my understanding as well. Veda Crewe Joseph Celtic Cultures ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 May 1996 11:17:01 -0800 From: "R.L. Shep" Subject: Corsets There is and has been so much discussion of corsets lately that I am sendin= g = you a review we just received on one of our books: CORSETS: A Visual History. R.L. Shep, compiled by. 1993. 272p. = Illustrated. R.L. Shep Publications/Fred Struthers. p.o. box 2706. Fort = Bragg, CA 95437. paper $26.95 + 2.50 The term corset is used here to include stays, bodices, a pair of bodies, = waspie, corse, foundation garments, girdles, breastplates, or almost any = wearable contraption with the purpose of constricting the bodies of men, = women, and children. The author is not attempting to present an overall = history of corsets, but to =B3present a visual survey of corsets as seen = through advertisements, department store catalogs, and corset company = catalogs=B2 from the early 1800s to the 1930s. The book begins with a = brief history of these garments and shows a most interesting illustration = of how wearing them actually altered the natural formation of the rib cage.= = It continues with a discussion on the medical ailments caused by corsetry. = = Also discussed are corset covers, bust improvers, bustle pads, hose = supporters (garters), shoulder braces, abdominal supporters, blouse = distenders, and waist extenders. This book is a must-have for costumers = because of the excellent illustrations and the added extras such as = instructions in stay making. It would be interesting if not valuable to = costume historians although some illustrations are not documented. There = is a good bibliography for further reading. The multitude of illustrations= = make for intriguing perusal even for people not particularly interested in = costume. Mary Roehr =8B custom tailor/educator/author ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 May 1996 14:40:15 -0700 From: Veda Crewe Joseph Subject: Re: kilts Joshua Porterfield wrote: > > I too would enjoy locating some Tartan wool easily with out going over seas. > > JoshuaI responded off the list previously, but there seems to be an interest. We at Celtic Cultures can get authentic Scottish tartan in various weights and widths. The quality is excellent. The selvages are perfect and do not require finishing. Most common tartans are available in "old colors" as well as the modern colors. Some have hunting tartans as well. Unfortunately the stuff is quite expensive. It is expensive if you go to Scotland to buy it and it is even more expensive to import, with duty, shipping fees etc... On that note we will be happy to find out what is available and the prices for any clan you like. You can email my husband Stuart at celtic@sover.net or write to me. Or you can call me at (802)387-5458 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 May 96 14:30:05 est From: "Hilary Oak" Subject: Re: satin piping It is not very difficult to make your own piping and you have a lot more control over colors, fabrics and widths. If you would like more info on this let me know. (e-mail me directly as I will be unsubscribing from h-costume.) To find pre-made satin piping you could try: M&J Trimmings 1008 6th ave. N.Y.C.10018 212-391-9072 Daytona Trimmings 251 West 40th St., N.Y.C. 10018 212-354-1713 or 1716 So-Good 28 West 38th st., N.Y.C. 10018 212-398-0236 Baer Fabrics 515 East Market, Louisville KY.40202 800-769-7778 Hope that helps. - Hilary Oak hoak@ccmaillink.stlawu.edu ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: satin piping Author: "Karen Lovejoy" at ~internet Date: 5/2/96 12:30 PM Does anyone know of a source for satin piping, either here in the Seattle area or a mail order source. Thanks Hmmm... I wonder ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 May 96 14:41:53 est From: "Hilary Oak" Subject: Re: Source for Fringe For nylon chainette fringe in several colors you can call: Theatre House Inc. P.O. Box 2090 Covington KY 41012 606-431-4922 Prices are: 3" fringe 1.49 /yd 6" 2.97 9" 4.47 12" 5.95 18" 8.94 32" 15.90 It is about the cheapest I've found. For higher quality upholstery/drapery weight fringe or beautiful beaded and tassled fringe try M.J. Trimmings, Baer Fabrics, or Daytona Trims that I mentioned in my last post about satin piping. - Hilary ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 11:53:31 -0700 From: gwjchris@ix.netcom.com (Bill and Glenna Christen) Subject: Costuming Factors (was 1840's bodice) You wrote: >..what other factors do you take into consideration when contemplating >garments or (for people who do living history) trying to figure out >the daily duties and clothing of your persona? >My base questions include among others, location, nationality, >economic background, marital status, and recent travels. An excellent list! All I could think of to add is age. I know I certainly dress differently than I would if I were much younger or older than I am today. I think age differences in dress were more pronounced even 20 years ago than they are now. (My mother in blue jeans in the 1960's? Not a chance!) While there is a least one difference of opinion on this issue, I think in broad terms there are certain styles much more typical of young adult and other styles that only a very "mature" person would likely wear. The styles of the middle often appear on both extremes as well as the obvious middle. Respectfully, Glenna Jo Christen gwjchris@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 15:18:24 -0400 From: rebus@madbbs.com Subject: softening linen I've been a handspinner for many years, and bleach (clorox type) works well at breaking the fiber and resins (chemically), as does weathering. To do this just hang the garment on the line for a week or so and let it bleach in the sun and get rained on...Hard washing helps too like the hot cycle with some old sneakers to pound the heck out of it...Treading the wet garments in the tub works. I've never tried the sidewalk treatment, as After all the work of spinning and weaving I was a bit cautious with my work....Lili Lili Pintea-Reed Adjunct Prof. Psy. SUNY/Jamestown rebus@madbbs.com http://www.madbbs.com/rebus/rebus.htm ------------------------------ Date: 2 May 96 12:05:00 From: Stacey Weinberger at WADSWORTH Subject: Reenactment Question Please forgive me that I am posting this question to the list. I don't know where else to send it and would appreciate it if anyone knew of where I might. Question: Where would a journalist (reporter for the London Times) live in 1840s to early 1860s in London. I know laywers tended to live around Grays Inn Square, but journalists? Thank you very much, Stacey stacey_weinberger@wadsworth.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 May 1996 14:42:38 -0800 From: "R.L. Shep" Subject: Re: Corsets Bill and Glenna Christen wrote: > > Mary, > > You wrote: > > > >There is and has been so much discussion of corsets lately that I am > sendin= > >g = > > > >you a review we just received on one of our books: > > > >CORSETS: A Visual History. R.L. Shep, compiled by. 1993. 272p. = > > Does this book have much useful information on American Civil War era > corsets, especially construction info? If it does, could you post an > announcement to the list? (You are on that list aren't you?) I know a > number of women have been asking for advice on corset construction and > I'm not a lot of help since I had mine made for me. > > Thank you! > Glenna Jo Christen > gwjchris@ix.netcom.com There is a "Pattern for Stays" from 1853 There is an article (withillustrations) on "Madame Caplin's Corsets" from 1854 There is an illustrated article "Practical Instructions in Stay Making" from 1857 The corsets from the actual Civil War Era years are only illustrations (dated). R.L. Shep ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 May 96 19:21:00 E From: "McCrann, Grace-Ellen" Subject: Tartan use by Clans/Families 2 May 1996 Tartan was used by specific clans/families before the Victorian era, though the Queen's fondness for Balmoral and things Scottish certainly helped the tartan industry of the day. The oldest reference I know to a specific tartan is to be found in an old land lease from the Isle of Mull dated somewhere in the 1600's. The tenant involved was leasing land from the Maclean of Duart and his rent was to be paid in tartan. The colours of what we today know as "Hunting Maclean" was spelled out in the lease agreement. There certainly was tartan at the Battle of Culloden in 1746 and the Royal Museum of Scotland in Edinburgh owns several pieces which were dug up from that battlefield. Tartan really became fashionable through the efforts of Sir Walter Scott slightly before Victoria came to the throne. In 1822 George IV visited Edinburgh. It was the first time a Monarch had come to Scotland since the time of the Stuarts and Sir Walter Scott was the master of ceremonies. He was at that time an enormously popular writer and his books extolling the romantic aspects of Scottish history were best sellers. Scott publicized the fact the King would wear tartan during his visit and then everyone wanted to wear what the King would be wearing . There was a great frenzy of sewing of tartan and general preparation. The King did indeed come and did indeed wear tartan. Actually contemporary accounts make it clear he probably looked a bit like the dog's breakfast because he wore a number of different tartans all at once. After that visit tartan was fashionable and Victoria and Albert only made it more so. Hope this is of use. Yours faithfully, Grace-Ellen McCrann ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 May 96 22:57:47 UT From: "Susan Carter" Subject: RE: softening linen Lili Your reference to chlorine bleach jogged my memory. I'm sure it's the chlorine type that's harmful to linen and hydrogen peroxide that's safer. There was a book published several years ago - Linen: ... by Pat Baines ( also author of Spinning Wheels, Spinners and Spinning) which goes in to some detail on dealing with handspun linen and I'm sure it's there that I saw good directions for using peroxide. If you want the full citation let me know - my copy is at work, not here. I might also point out that what Lili and any other handspinners can do to their linen is very different from what can be safely done to mill spun. Handspinning from 2 to 3 foot long fibers means that a process like pounding with a rock will flatten and soften. Doing the same thing to mill spun fibers of maybe 3 or 4 inches (that's right - inches) is much more likely to do serious damage - like holes. Su sucarter@msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 20:15:09 -0400 From: rebus@madbbs.com Subject: RE: softening linen Dear Sue, Well yes you are right that peroxide is more fiber-safe, but my personal experience with some very haersh sticky hand spun is that clorine bleach does work---I used it as an emergency measure to get quick results because it does harm fiber...My preferred method is the exposure to the elements technique. Wash it and hang it in the line for a few days....I've been handspinning for 16 years and clorox works in a pinch... But just to inform non-handspinners. The fiber is you handspin is not much softer than grass, and has a resin on it. You wet it as you spin either in the traditional manner with a licked finger or occassional dabs of water. Then this rather harsh fiber is further dampened and hung to set the twist in the fiber...Woven at fist it has the hand of soft burlap...This needs more processing to get it soft. The color is a dun or light brown with a hint of green...To get snowy white in the past must have taken a lot of sun...Lili Lili Pintea-Reed Adjunct Prof. Psy. SUNY/Jamestown rebus@madbbs.com http://www.madbbs.com/rebus/rebus.htm ------------------------------ End of H-Costume Digest V4 #108 ******************************* A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, send the command lines: unsubscribe h-costume-digest subscribe h-costume end in the body of a message to majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com. Thanks and enjoy the list!