From: owner-h-costume-digest (H-Costume Digest) To: h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Subject: H-Costume Digest V4 #111 Reply-To: h-costume Sender: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Errors-To: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk H-Costume Digest Tuesday, May 7 1996 Volume 4, Number 111 Compilation copyright (C) 1996 Diane Barlow Close and Gretchen Miller Use in whole prohibited. Individual articles are the property of the author. Seek permission from that author before reprinting or quoting elsewhere. Important Addresses: Send submissions to: h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com (or reply to this message). Adds/drops/archives: majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com Real, live person: h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Topics: Amazon Leather Re: H-Costume Digest V4 #109 Trayned Bandes of London Tartan use by Clans/Families Re: Leather Doublet Re: Leather Doublet Re: Leather Doublet Re: Tartan use by Clans/Families Boot/Shoe patterns web page Re: leather doublet ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 06 May 1996 22:28:12 -0600 From: felicity@cyberhighway.net Subject: Amazon I've been reading this list (to my delight) for some couple of months now. I'm interested in costume in general from a historic/social point of view...and, more practically...I'm in a madrigal that performs late medieval and renaissance music in costume. In any case, I'd like to offer my unsolicited enthusiastic recommendation of _Amazon Drygoods_ catalogues -- They just came in the mail today (I got all 3: the costume pattern, boot/shoe and general) & am just agog at what's available. Of course all you professional folks knew all along what was out there, but this novice is entranced. I'll not babble on further. Their ph. no. is 319 322-6800. (I'm posting this for others of my ilk that may not know about this source.) Thanks! - -- """"""""""""""""felicity@cyberhighway.net""""""""""""""" "When I was a young lad twenty or thirty or forty years ago I lived in a small town where they were all after me on account of what I done on Mrs Nugent." _The Butcher Boy_, Patrick McCabe ------------------------------ Date: 07 May 96 10:56:00 GMT From: Mrs C S Yeldham Subject: Leather Just a quick comment - my husband is the real expert. I wouldn't have thought grommets would help (but then I'm not conveinced about them anyway). You could holepunch, or use an awl for smaller holes My real comment is about the cap-like sleeves, which I imagine are pretty similar to fabric ones. The key to making these sit properly is to trim the seam allowance of where they are to be sewn onto the garment until they look OK, and keep trying them on the garment, then sew them in. You have to alter the section of the circle, and can then get them to sit at any angle you want. The only real way to demonstrate this is to draw it, but I don't think ASCII is up to it! Caroline ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 May 96 10:01:20 BST From: Alan Braggins Subject: Re: H-Costume Digest V4 #109 > couldn't see up my miniskirts. I remember bending over to pick up things > in a miniskirt where you put your knees together and kneeled, back > straight Since this is supposed to be much better for your back then bending over to lift things, maybe there is a health and safety case for mini-skirts.. ------------------------------ Date: 07 May 96 11:23:00 GMT From: Mrs C S Yeldham Subject: Trayned Bandes of London Su Carter asked me to send this, in relation to her query about military bits and pieces on 16th/17th century soldiers, but it keeps bouncing from her address, so I hope you will forgive me sending it to the whole list - it mightbe of interest to others as well. The Trayned Bandes were the militia of London, ordinary citizens trained and ready to be mustered by the authorities (which might well be the London authorities against the crown as well as vice versa). Caroline I don't know if this will help, but its the contact list of names and addresses from the Trayned Bandes Web Page - taken directly, so please forgive the formatting instructions! Caroline Trayned Bandes Addresses

Addresses

The Traynded Bandes of London

Clerk of the Bandes

Mr Aryk Nusbacher
nusbacher-a@rmc.ca

Federation Education Officer

Dr Jeff Singman
2244 St Francis Drive Apt. A107
Ann Arbor, MI
USA
Jeffrey.L.Singman@um.cc.umi ch.edu

Gardiner's Company
Southwark Trayned Bandes (Virginia and Maryland)

Co-ordinator

Mr Jeff Morgan 1633 Stoney Creek Drive
Charlottesville, VA
USA 22902
thegambles@aol.com

Education Officer

Ms Diana Mortensen
502-B Mosely Dr.
Charlottesville, VA
USA 22903-4307
djmaislinn@aol.com

Tabard Inn Society (Ontario and Points Adjacent)

Co-ordinator

Ms Stephanie Diamant
599 Delaware Avenue N
Toronto, Ontario
Canada M6H 2V3
sdiamant@interlog.com

Education Officer

Mr Philip Collman
599 Delaware Avenue N
Toronto, Ontario
Canada M6H 2V3
Maureen_Martinez@us.dell.com

General Addresses

Gardiner's Companie of the Southwark Trayned Bandes:

Mr Jeff & Ms Laura Morgan
1633 Stoney Creek Dr.
Charlottesville, VA
USA 22902thegambles@aol.com

Ms Diana Mortensen
502B Moseley Dr.
Charlottesville, VA
USA 22903-4307
djmaislinn@aol.com

*New Person:*
Mrs. Sharon A.H. Henderson
5521 Starboard Court
Fairfax, VA
USA 22032-4011
(703) 425-8284 (home)
(703) 709-5562 (office)
sharon@intercon.com
fitzy@intercon.com
inter26@worldlink.com

Mr Michael Hamm
P.O. Box 2495
Charlottesville, VA
USA 22902

Kim Dennis
583-504 Brandon
Charlottesville, VA
USA 22903

Mr Bob & Ms Sheila Talbott
RR4 Box 412
Charlottesville, VA
USA 22901

Mr Alan Smith
607 Eldrid Dr.
Silver Spring, MD
USA 20904
asmith2@oash.ssw.dhhs.gov

Mr Jim & Ms Sandy Toscano
3146 Hidden Ridge Terrace
Abington, MD
USA 21009
stoscano@aeha1.apgea.army.mil

Westminster Trayned Bandes (Texas)

*New Person:*
Mr Vernon Fults
1004 N Division St
Lake Charles, LA
USA 70601
ulfstein@aol.com

Return to the Trayned Bandes of London home page

nusbacher-a@rmc.ca
------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 May 96 09:19:00 E From: "McCrann, Grace-Ellen" Subject: Tartan use by Clans/Families 7 May 1996 There was a recent comment that the word "plaid" originally meant the garment and not the fabric. It still does. The original kilts were nothing more than long pieces of cloth (12 to 15 feet) which were wrapped around the wearer, pleating as he wrapped and fastened at the waist by a belt or cord. The wrapping was done in such a fashion so as to leave a long length at the end which was then brought over the shoulder and tucked-in/fastened. The garment was referred to as the belted plaid. It was very useful for men in the Highlands as the plaid could be pulled up around the wearer for warmth or to keep off rain. The wearer could also wrap himself up in it at night. The modern kilt or feileadh beag (little plaid) has separated the kilt part of the original garment and the long length part of the original garment. One of the reasons for the change was that being able to wrap your self up/protect yourself from rain was all very well out on the hills, but men in more urban settings found it inconvenient when the long length got wet. When the kilt was all of a piece, you had to take off the whole thing if the long length got wet. The new style was popularized by Iain MacDonell who became Chief of the Glengarry Macdonalds in 1720, but since the new style was comfortable and more practical for town wearers, it soon caught on. It was also around this time that the pleats began to be sewn in place. Today at Highland Games or Scottish events you occasionally see men in full fig with what appears to be a tartan "blanket" fastened at their shoulder and tucked in at the back of their waist. This is called the plaid and is the descendant of that long length of fabric. The word plaid is sometimes pronounced "plade" in Scotland. It might help to remember that the use of the word plaid as a description of the design of the fabric was popularized by commercial interests and did not reflect actual Scottish terminology. Tartan is a fabric/design...plaid is a garment. Hope this is of use. Yours faithfully, Grace-Ellen McCrann gmccrann@hal.dcr.state.nc.us ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 08:59:03 -0700 From: brettwi@ix.netcom.com (Brett Williams) Subject: Re: Leather Doublet Caroline Yeldham wrote: > >My real comment is about the cap-like sleeves, which I imagine are >pretty similar to fabric ones. The key to making these sit properly >is to trim the seam allowance of where they are to be sewn onto the >garment until they look OK, and keep trying them on the garment, then >sew them in. You have to alter the section of the circle, and can >then get them to sit at any angle you want. > >The only real way to demonstrate this is to draw it, but I don't think >ASCII is up to it! > > >Caroline > Let's see: |\ | \ | | | | | / |/ Close enough? :) I think I would elongate the piece from the proportions I've shown here, though. The proper mathmatical term for this section of circle is a chord, isn't it? (math is a language I've mercifully forgotten a lo-o-o-o-ong time ago...) Something useful to know is that which side of the piece-- the straight edge or the curved edge-- that you use to set into the armsceye determines whether the cap points up or down. If you set the curved edge into the armsceye, then the cap will set like a modern sleeve, pointing down the arm. If you set it with the straight edge into the armsceye, then the sleeve cap will point up and out a la Klingon! I believe both are correct, though. Karen Jolley-Williams (delurking) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 May 96 13:02:38 PDT From: Ches@mail.io.com Subject: Re: Leather Doublet On Tue, 7 May 1996 08:59:03 -0700 Brett Williams wrote: > |\ > | \ > | | > | | > | / > |/ > >Close enough? :) __.oO*Oo.__ Very good! As far as I know this is what every SCA pattern for a Swash doublet has on it's sleeve. I bet it is period. All my costume books has them too. Do not worry that you will be the the only one with them on. More than likely you will be out of place without them! They do tend to stick out so curve the outer edges out so when you sew them down they will have a downward curve. /\ | \ | | | | | / \/ Go with a leather hole punch, leather products and fakes all "heal" when you poke instead of punch. Ciao @}\ Ches @}----`--,-- http://www.io.com/~ches/ @}/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 14:44:55 -0400 From: Kevin Richard-Morrow Subject: Re: Leather Doublet > >>Go with a leather hole punch, leather products and fakes all "heal" when you poke instead of >>punch. >> >>Ciao @}\ >>Ches @}----`--,-- http://www.io.com/~ches/ >> @}/ >> Just a quick point. (Ouch! just hit me that's a bad pun!) There are times, as when you sew leather, that the "healing" will lock in your work and it's just what you want. I use a very sharp diamond pointed awl when sewing leather to get just that result. I suspect that the "cap-like" sleeves are meant to be sewn on, not laced. Kevin Richard-Morrow ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 May 1996 16:42:16 -0700 From: Veda Crewe Joseph Subject: Re: Tartan use by Clans/Families > There was a recent comment that the word "plaid" originally meant the > garment and not the fabric. > > It still does. People often refer to the piece of tartan which is draped pinned to the shoulder when wearing the small kilt as the "plaid" (pronounced "playd" with a long a) or "plaidie". sometimes this just refers to a blanket. > The modern kilt or feileadh beag (little plaid) has separated the kilt > part of the original garment and the long length part of the original > garment. One of the reasons for the change was that being able to wrap > your self up/protect yourself from rain was all very well out on the > hills, but men in more urban settings found it inconvenient when the long > length got wet. When the kilt was all of a piece, you had to take off > the whole thing if the long length got wet. The new style was > popularized by Iain MacDonell who became Chief of the Glengarry > Macdonalds in 1720, but since the new style was comfortable and more > practical for town wearers, it soon caught on. It was also around this > time that the pleats began to be sewn in place. One of my friends found some colomn capitals in a medieval church on I believe she said Iona with a variety of Scotts going about daily chores such as sheep shearing, plowing, etc...`According to her description, they were all clearly wearing the small kilts and shirts. The tartan was pleated and stitched across at the top edge but not stitched down to the hip like modern kilts. Unfortunately the photos she took were too dark to see the details that one could see in person. It seems that this came up as a practical solution well pre Jacobite. Her interpretation is that the philebeg is probably the Scottish equivalent of our blue jeans. For the above reasons, and for ease of dressing (this can be done standing up in a small space)this makes a lot of sense. Unfortunately doccumentation of just about anything to do with national dress in medieval or rennaisance Scotland is incredibly scarce. People love to disagree about the origins of both the philebeg (small kilt) and the philemore (great kilt). Go figure! Veda Crewe Joseph ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 May 96 18:34:11 PDT From: Ches@mail.io.com Subject: Boot/Shoe patterns web page Here is a great page I just looked at. I highly recommend it! He covers how to make bad hollywood period looking shoes to the real thing. Try it out! Send him a note of thanks if you like it. __.oO*Oo.__ I mentioned this on the Rialto, but was recently reminded that not everyone READS the Rialto (aka Rec.Org.SCA/SCA-L). I have finished the most recent version of my shoe document. It can be seen at: "http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/carlson/SHOEHOME.HTM". I hope it's of some use to someone. Diarmuit/Marc (aka IMC@vax2.utulsa.edu) Ciao @}\ Ches @}----`--,-- http://www.io.com/~ches/ @}/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 22:03:27 -0400 From: REVUPNGO@aol.com Subject: Re: leather doublet To Kym Peters: You wrote: