From: owner-h-costume-digest (H-Costume Digest) To: h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Subject: H-Costume Digest V4 #114 Reply-To: h-costume Sender: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Errors-To: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk H-Costume Digest Monday, May 13 1996 Volume 4, Number 114 Compilation copyright (C) 1996 Diane Barlow Close and Gretchen Miller Use in whole prohibited. Individual articles are the property of the author. Seek permission from that author before reprinting or quoting elsewhere. Important Addresses: Send submissions to: h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com (or reply to this message). Adds/drops/archives: majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com Real, live person: h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Topics: Re: Altering Pattern Re: Drawers Re: Drawers and "protection" Victorians Unbuttoned Cowboy Boots for Dancing Rigeline Re: Rigeline Re: Rigeline Re: Cowboy Boots for Dancing Re: Cowboy Boots for Dancing Fitchets Re: Cowboy Boots for Dancing Re: Fitchets Klompen, Sabot Re: Fitchets Re: Cowboy Boots for Dancing ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 10 May 96 15:09:06 From: Chris Jansen Subject: Re: Altering Pattern >> I am going to attempt to make a corset using a pattern from "Corsets >>and Crinolines". Once I enlarge the patterns, what would be the best way >>to convert my measurements to the pattern pieces? I realize that this is >>rather tricky and that I will have to sew the thing together, try it on >>and make adjustments, but I would like to try to get it as close as >>possible. >What I do when I alter a corset to fit my measurements is, once the >pattern's enlarged, figure out the proportions of the pieces to eachother. >For instance, if the waist measurement of your enlarged corset is 25", and >one of the center back pieces is 2.5 inches wide, the center back piece is >1/10 or 10 percent of the whole. I'd then measure my own waist, figure >what 10% of that was, and make the waist measurement of the back center >piece that wide. Then I'd do the same for the bust and hips. Of course, >this method is time consuming (I hate math and am deplorably bad at it), >and requires lots of measuring and remeasuring and calculating, but in my >experience it's the best way to keep the proportions of the original >pieces. Of course, it's easier when you're making a corset with fewer >sections. That's not a bad technique, but it's important to remember that most corsets are sized with about 4" of "spring" (the opening that remains when it is laced). If you're going to use this technique, make sure you take the spring into account! If you don't you're going to end up with a corset that is MUCH too large. - -Chris (My friends call me Chris but you can call me anything you'd like) Jansen ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 17:09:32 -0400 From: Booboopies@aol.com Subject: Re: Drawers At the risk of wearying some of the veterans of the list, I'd like to add my 2 cents on this subject. My mother-in-law's mother came from Turkish Armenia in 1899. When my mother-in-law's "turn" came, she was made to wear a diaper. Imagine at the age of 16 having to face the world in such gear. By the way, Samuel Pepys mentioned his wife's wearing drawers. She was English middle class. He wore drawers as well, at least to bed, and he wore two shirts in cooler weather. If anyone would like the specific citations, e-mail me, and I'll be happy to provide them. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 15:10:34 -0700 From: gwjchris@ix.netcom.com (Bill and Glenna Christen) Subject: Re: Drawers and "protection" You wrote: >women didn't wear underwear for most of history. So what did they do >to protect their clothing at...ahem..."that time of the month"? An excellent question! The answer probably varies widely between time periods and cultures. In some cultures menstuating women go into seclusion and engage in very sedentary activities so they can sit on whatever absorbent materials they have available to them, be it moss, other material found in nature or specially created material. For societies where women can't or don't go into seclusion various belt and rag arrangements have been created. A woman I know found a description for a belt and pocket arrangement to hold rags or cotton in a mid-19th Century lady's magazine, either Godey's or Peterson's. She didn't realize at first what it was describing since it was so filled with euphemisms. And you thought *you* were blushing! :-) Glenna Jo Christen gwjchris@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 23:25:24 -0400 From: Biggsk@aol.com Subject: Victorians Unbuttoned Does anyone know if the book "Victorian's Unbuttoned" is still in print? Any sources? (Or opinions?) Karel Lea Biggs Biggsk@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 10:33:28 -0400 From: aquazoo@dcez.com (Ed Safford & Carol Kocian) Subject: Cowboy Boots for Dancing While at a dance, I started wondering about cowboy boots. For country western dancing today, boots are available that are specifically for dancing. In the old west (19thC) I would speculate that cowboy boots were seldon worn for dancing. Wouldn't both men and women wear shoes for dancing? Or perhaps ankle boots at a casual event. When I had western style riding boots, (in the 1970's) they were so use-specific that they weren't particularly comfortable to walk in. I would think that they were similar to the original cowboy boots. I have heard that one of the origins of the tango was solo dances done by cowboys in Argentina. Since they are pictured doing this in their work clothes, their boots would be the traditional footwear. So when did cowboy boots evolve into "the thing to wear" for country western dancing? Many of the dances, by the way, are based on those brought over by Europeans. Two step, schottische, etc. Does anyone else have any thoughts on this? -Carol *^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^* This account is shared by Carol Kocian and Ed Safford. Carol can also be e-mailed at ckocian@epe.org Ed can be reached at ecsaffor@ingr.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 10:33:16 -0400 From: aquazoo@dcez.com (Ed Safford & Carol Kocian) Subject: Rigeline I just got my hands on some Rigeline and I have some questions about it. First of all, Rigeline is something to use as corset boning. It's made of strands of some clear plastic-like substance that is woven into a strip. It would be really easy to sew through. There are eight strands in the 1/2" width. I bought mine from Greenberg & Hammer. I was told that I could split it in half to make 1/4" strips, but I find that it frays and the plastic strands come out. My questions: Is there a way to split it in half without it fraying? I've heard that, unlike plastic featherboning, Rigeline will hold its shape. Featherboning (the all-plastic strip usuallu in a cloth casing) tends to bend when under stress. Has anyone compared the two and can say this for sure? If not, I will conduct an experiment and report back to the list. Though it is not as stiff as metal stays, Rigeline looks like it will be quite useful in light support areas. Does anyone recommend Rigeline for any particular period of stays or corset? Thanks! -Carol *^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^* This account is shared by Carol Kocian and Ed Safford. Carol can also be e-mailed at ckocian@epe.org Ed can be reached at ecsaffor@ingr.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 21:52:11 +2 From: "Ella Lynoure Rajamaki" Subject: Re: Rigeline > Is there a way to split it in half without it fraying? I don't know any way to do that... There is also less wide Rigilene, maybe yu can find that. > I've heard that, unlike plastic featherboning, Rigeline will hold > its shape. Featherboning (the all-plastic strip usuallu in a cloth casing) > tends to bend when under stress. Has anyone compared the two and can say > this for sure? If not, I will conduct an experiment and report back to the > list. Do you happen to remember the posting I wrote about my ribbon corset and fantasy corset and plastic boning. That plastic boning I used was Rigilene. It didn't bend when used in groups of four (4 next to each other) in the ribbon corset and worn for half a day, but it did bend badly at stomach when used as invidual bones (13 bones total) in the fantasy corset and worn for two days (not at nights, of course)... After giving in a week or so rest it was back to normal, but I wouldn't recommend using it for corsets (I haven't worn the ribbon corset for days in a row, so I am not sure how it would bend (if it would) when used in groups). > Though it is not as stiff as metal stays, Rigeline looks like it > will be quite useful in light support areas. Does anyone recommend Rigeline > for any particular period of stays or corset? It seems to be about as stiff as flat spiral bones. The only really good use for Rigilene is the non-historic use as keeping the top of the dress up and smooth... Lynoure - -- End -- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 18:47:24 -0400 From: NeaDods@aol.com Subject: Re: Rigeline Carol, Try running a zig-zag stitch over a couple of the little rigeline spines before you cut it, i.e.: if you plan to cut between strands 4 and 5, zig zag strands 3 & 4 together, and then strands 5 & 6. This should help keep everything together when you cut. I've used Rigeline in a corset and it worked just fine; it's also washable, which I like. I used the Past Patterns 1860 corset, with 2 layers of cotton duck and the rigeline. I also use rigeline to reinforce "fake corsets" made of plastic needlepoint canvas (useful for making a theater/washable fake of Elizabethan flat fronts). And I plan to pull some apart and use the single strands for rag-doll corsets for a future project. Nea neadods@aol.com "Five days a week, my body is a temple. The other two, it's an amusement park." -- Jerry Doyle ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 18:42:09 -0700 (MST) From: cwood@primenet.com (Ysabeau) Subject: Re: Cowboy Boots for Dancing Weeelll..sheesh, I am not an expert, but my father who is a pretty much a cowboy and who knows an awful lot about cowboys, both past and present, told me that usually a cowboy only owned one pair of boots, in fact, usually a cowboy only owned about one of everything. Maybe an extra shirt and some extra socks, but most cowboys only owned what they could carry in saddle bags or a bedroll which is not much. Boots are a rather expensive item, so perhaps that would account for a cowboy only owning one pair of boots. I am doing research on a frontier army officer who, according to the list of his effects which was compiled upon his death, only owned one pair of shoes--boots. Since an officer at that time probably made more than a cowboy, this might be indicative of something...on the other hand maybe not. I don't know if this answers your question or not, but I would say that yes a cowboy who danced would probably wear the same boots he wore to ride. Also you have to realize that there are several different heels for cowboy boots depending on what the boots are being worn for. The boots you describe sound like the kind with very high heels, which in my experience are not all that common. All the cowboys I know, including cowboy living historians, wear the shorter heel (about an inch or so high) and they wear these boots 24-7, often including spurs. The woman that I work for who rides probably about eight hours a day drives, cleans and cooks in her boots and spurs. I think one can get used to anything. Think of Ginger Rogers and the shoes she was dancing in! I wear ropers with inch and a half heels very day and have no problem dancing. Does this answer your question at all? Ysabeau ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 09:49:35 -0800 From: "R.L. Shep" Subject: Re: Cowboy Boots for Dancing Ysabeau wrote: > > Weeelll..sheesh, I am not an expert, but my father who is a pretty much a > cowboy and who knows an awful lot about cowboys, both past and present, told > me that usually a cowboy only owned one pair of boots, in fact, usually a > cowboy only owned about one of everything. etc In THE COWBOY BOOT BOOK (Peregrine Smith Books. Box 667. Layton, UT 84041) 1992 they say the following: "Nocoma Boot Company first introduced the shoe boot in the 1930s to allow square dancers more flexibility of the ankle. They stopped production in 1984....This interest prompted Nocoma toreintroduce shoe boots totheir line, in 1991 Nocoma sold tens ofthousands of shoe boots for men and women..." R.L. Shep> > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 19:58:45 -0400 From: Damion001@aol.com Subject: Fitchets Hello: I haven't read any responses to my query about the medieval version of the bustle, but I came across a reference to the "fitchets in the skirts" in a description of the dress of a French woman of the late 14th century whose skirt was particularly full beneath the waist. Unfortuantely, that is the only reference to a fitchet that I have. So is the fitchet the "fox-tails swede within ther garments to hold forthe for to hed ther arses," that Douglas, monk of Glastonbury mentioned in 1343? Damion ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 21:40:04 -0500 From: recon36@server.iadfw.net (Ed Walton) Subject: Re: Cowboy Boots for Dancing > In the old west (19thC) I would speculate that cowboy boots were >seldon worn for dancing. Wouldn't both men and women wear shoes for >dancing? Or perhaps ankle boots at a casual event. Most people in the Old West were not cowboys, and many of them would be in professions not requiring boots. Also note that it would be pretty unusual for women to wear men's boots under any circumstance. > When I had western style riding boots, (in the 1970's) they were so >use-specific that they weren't particularly comfortable to walk in. I would >think that they were similar to the original cowboy boots. If they had riding heels, they take some getting used to. However, when you get the hang of it, it's okay. Maybe like women and spike heels. However, I wouldn't want to make a forced march in riding heels. > So when did cowboy boots evolve into "the thing to wear" for >country western dancing? Many of the dances, by the way, are based on those >brought over by Europeans. Two step, schottische, etc. Country & Western were two different styles of music until the late '30s. Then they started merging as country performers, who had previously performed in stage clothes known as "hillbilly" (like little abner or trainmen) began to adopt the cowboy clothing of the Western musicians. Boots were part of that look. The actual music style hasn't merged and Western style isn't done much anymore outside of the sacred borders of Texas as far as I know. Country idiom dominates, but Western won the fashion war. In fact, almost as many cowboy boots are sold in Tennesee, a state that never saw a cattle drive or a roundup, as in Texas. Someone else said: >I don't know if this answers your question or not, but I would say that yes >a cowboy who danced would probably wear the same boots he wore to ride. Correct. Most people who went to a barn dance would normally go by wagon, not horseback. The young bucks might ride in on horseback and they would be booted. Anyone else probably wouldn't wear boots, if they were rich enough to own more than one pair of footwear. >All the cowboys I know, including cowboy living historians, >wear the shorter heel (about an inch or so high) and they wear these boots >24-7, often including spurs. An inch is probably a little low and would be prone to slipping thru the stirrup, 2" is more like it. It needs to be long enough to stop the boot from passing thru. Many people in western states never stopped wearing boots, even though it's been generations since their families were stockmen. I wore boots all day every day, including to the office, even though it's been over a century since anyone in my family had rustled a herd or stolen a horse. A cultural thing, I guess. The only discomfort was from the trapped heat on those 105 degree summer days. I only stopped wearing them because my office went to more casual wear. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - --Ed Walton "Lost Battalions" Original and Reproduction WW2 Uniforms http://web2.airmail.net/recon36 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 23:50:58 -0400 From: Lethegirl@aol.com Subject: Re: Fitchets I believe fitchets are the two rectangular patches, possibly slits, in the front of the cotehardie-type over-garment, possibly allowing the wearer to reach a pouch suspended from a belt underneath. this is what I read in my costume history class, but it's open to debate. - -T. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 21:59:41 -0600 From: felicity@cyberhighway.net Subject: Klompen, Sabot Has anyone ready knowledge on the earliest common usage of "wooden shoes" (klompen, sabot)? I'm wondering about incorporating them in my costume next fall/winter (I'm in a madrigal that sings in costume), but am unsure of my timing. THX. - -- """"""""""""""""felicity@cyberhighway.net""""""""""""""" "When I was a young lad twenty or thirty or forty years ago I lived in a small town where they were all after me on account of what I done on Mrs Nugent." _The Butcher Boy_, Patrick McCabe ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 00:55:36 -0400 From: Damion001@aol.com Subject: Re: Fitchets T. wrote: << I believe fitchets are the two rectangular patches, possibly slits, in the front of the cotehardie-type over-garment, possibly allowing the wearer to reach a pouch suspended from a belt underneath. this is what I read in my costume history class, but it's open to debate. >> That's very interesting. Unfortunately I do not have at the moment a glossary of costume terms, so I'm not able to find the definition that a costume book would give. But the ordinary dictionary defines the fitchit as both a European polecat, and the fur of it. So you can see why I would think that the "polecat fur" referred to here is the same as the "fox-tails" referred to by Douglas, monk of Glastonbury... whoever he is. Damion ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 09:41:43 -0400 From: Dale Loberger Subject: Re: Cowboy Boots for Dancing Carol Kocian wrote: > > While at a dance, I started wondering about cowboy boots. For > country western dancing today, boots are available that are specifically > for dancing. I subscribed to this list for my wife who is an 18th C. seamstress, but I couldn't help responding to this one personally. I don't consider myself a cowboy, but I have worn western style "cowboy boots" for over twenty years. I wear my boots nearly every day through all seasons (and I live in NC) and during many different activies. (Which reminds me of a joke about the only things a cowboy will remove his boots for, but I won't go into that.) I have worn my boots riding, walking, dancing, kicking ****, and once even swimming (which was very difficult). In all cases, but the last, I found their comfort very acceptable. I too only own one pair at a time, so I don't have much choice about what to where (nor would I want anything else). I should probably mention that one other pair of shoes I own are straight last buckle shoes which I also don't mind wearing (except after one long march on pavement about a year ago) so maybe my feet are a little warped! As for dancing, I didn't know about any special boots for dancing, but I would not go dancing without my everyday boots. Dale Loberger "The WoodSmith of Mulberry Meadow" and husband of "Susannah Eanes" (Susan Loberger) ------------------------------ End of H-Costume Digest V4 #114 ******************************* A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, send the command lines: unsubscribe h-costume-digest subscribe h-costume end in the body of a message to majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com. Thanks and enjoy the list!