From: owner-h-costume-digest (H-Costume Digest) To: h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Subject: H-Costume Digest V4 #119 Reply-To: h-costume Sender: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Errors-To: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk H-Costume Digest Thursday, May 16 1996 Volume 4, Number 119 Compilation copyright (C) 1996 Diane Barlow Close and Gretchen Miller Use in whole prohibited. Individual articles are the property of the author. Seek permission from that author before reprinting or quoting elsewhere. Important Addresses: Send submissions to: h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com (or reply to this message). Adds/drops/archives: majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com Real, live person: h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Topics: Outdoor headgear 1800 Outdoor headgear 1800 Re: Making day dress pattern larger Re: Costume stuff in San Francisco Re: need information Re: Costume stuff in San Francisco Re: Making day dress pattern larger Re: Saddles Meanings of colors ancient English all-purpose saddle Boots and stuff Re: Saddles Making day dress pattern larger ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 11:51:50 -0400 From: Dale Loberger Subject: Outdoor headgear 1800 One of the sites at which I volunteer is Historic Latta Plantation, circa 1800 - 1837, in what was then the Carolina Backcountry, a poor and sparsely settled area if there ever was one. However, the builder of Latta Place, Mr. James Latta, was a merchant who travelled frequently to Philadelphia and Boston. He was quite wealthy, especially for this area, and so the things he was able to purchase for his wife are thought to be indicative of what middle to upper-middle class women were wearing in New England and the more fashionable, "civilised" areas of the country. Through letters and other primary sources, our research has shown and their Scots-Irish background indicates that in general, they would have bought things of quality that were not necessarily the latest fashion but in good taste and they expected to get much wear out of, both in the style they were made and the quality of the goods. In the collection there is a soft black velvet bonnet with 1 ½" silk ribbon ties and a rosette bow at the side. It is bound at the edges with black silk ribbon ruching and lined with silk. This velvet bonnet is shaped very similarly to the familiar "sunbonnet" of the mid-nineteenth century worn by working women except that the brim is quite deep, some ten inches or so, and there is no ruffle across the back of the neck. A black feather about fifteen inches long graces the side of the bonnet pointing forward across the brim and disappears into the silk rosette aforementioned. I believe this is an example of an early "poke" bonnet. It is dated 1815 (I have no idea by whom) but I have seen pictures of women much earlier than this wearing the exact same shape of bonnet. It was designed to protect the eyes and skin from the sun, hence the deep brim from which a demure pair of benign eyes might peer. I have also seen women wearing the white lace, linen, or cotton day caps underneath such a bonnet, so that it appears as if there is a white ruffled lining surrounding the gentle face. There is a wonderful two-volume costume history I am thinking of in particular published around the turn of the (20th) century by an Elizabeth something or other (not E. Ewing – much earlier), with extensive sketching from period sources. I have a xerox of a page from that book that shows this exact bonnet dated 1800 - 1803 (except that this one is black with white ribbons and sports no feather.) I regret that I have lost the title page and cannot give you more on this source. I will run across it again, I am sure. Blanche Payne, Alice Morse Earle and Millia Davenport have all published extensive costume histories that cover the period 1790 - 1815 more thoroughly than most and are worth looking at for ideas on headgear. In general the bonnets’ shapes had very deep, narrow brims, not like the later "coal scuttle" bonnets that had a deep but wider brim and were more open at the face, in the 1820’s. The backs of the bonnets were often gathered but not too pouffy. Some bonnets, notably one illustrated by R. Turner Wilcox in his Five Centuries of American Fashion, were small and close to the head, resembling linen or cotton day caps but that they were made of silk and sported flowers, feathers, and/or extensive ribbon decoration and tucks or rows of gathers. These would not have been worn over an indoor day cap because they were too small and fitted more to the head than the poke bonnet-type of headgear. Another very fashionable thing to wear was the turban. Whether of silk, cotton, hand-painted, gaily printed, plain or brightly colored, it was "the thing." As to the question over whether fashion/custom had changed "that much" between 1779 and 1800 the answer is an emphatic yes –yes –YES! We cannot infer during this very turbulent time period that much survived from decade to decade except people’s memories. Fashion in particular changed drastically from 1779 to 1800. For a brief but very in-depth look at this, Merideth Wright’s Everyday Dress of Rural America, 1783 - 1800 is invaluable. One quote: "It was by no means universal for women to wear caps, at least about their household business (Manners and Customs of Olden Time, Collections of the NH Historical Society, 1837). Only the most conservative seem to have found caps essential to be worn in public. Cap styles mirrored the popular hairstyles, broader in the 1780s and more elongated in the early 1790s. When Mary Palmer visited her rural aunt and uncle in 1792 she was given lace to make a cap, and soon sported "as high a headdress as anybody." She noted, though, how different her aunt’s fashions were from her mother’s, who "had then never worn a cap since I had grown up, always dressing her own beautiful hair" (Recollections of Mary Palmer Tyler, 1775 - 1866)." She goes on to describe silk bonnets and hats of straw and other materials worn by elderly, youthful and middle-aged persons by turns. Regarding the caps’ shapes mirroring hairstyle shape, it is worthy to note that fashionable hairstyles at the turn of the nineteenth century resembled those in the 1920’s: oiled, waved, often cut close to the head, and UGLY. Good thing many wore those bonnets and turbans! A Warning I can’t help making: We must remember NEVER to say *all*, "everybody," or "nobody" *anything.* Such words precede assumptions, which are usually inherently very dangerous. The words usually, rarely, betimes, often, and most are much safer –and more accurate. I know that we must base our work on SOME assumptions, but we must remember that assumptions must be flexible and allow for individual differences in interpretation. We live and learn. Happy hat-hunting and hope this helps! Susannah Eanes, Mantua Maker and Fine Tailoring (I’m talking and I can’t shut up;-)) (Susan B. Loberger, Susannah’s Heirloom, Ltd.) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 11:25:26 -0500 (CDT) From: "SHERYL J. NANCE" Subject: Outdoor headgear 1800 >There is a wonderful two-volume costume history I am thinking of in >particular published around the turn of the (20th) century by an >Elizabeth something or other (not E. Ewing – much earlier), with >extensive sketching from period sources. I have a xerox of a page from >that book that shows this exact bonnet dated 1800 - 1803 (except that >this one is black with white ribbons and sports no feather.) I regret >that I have lost the title page and cannot give you more on this source. Perhaps _Chronicles of Fashion_ by Elizabeth Stone? Originally published in 1846, republished in 1900 by Richard Bentley Publishing in London. Sheryl J. Nance ...one of the secret masters of Kansas City MO Public Library the world: a librarian. They p_sheryl@kcpl.lib.mo.us control information. Don't ever p**s one off. - Spider Robinson, _The Callahan Touch_ (Opinions expressed in this message do not reflect the viewpoint of the Kansas City MO Public Library.) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 09:47:06 -0700 From: drkangel@sirius.com (Laura Nunemaker) Subject: Re: Making day dress pattern larger snip >If you are significantly larger than the original size, I'd suggest >enlarging the pattern to your size with a projector. snip >Fran Grimble Being somewhat lazy, I enlarge my patterns on an oversize copier, found at most copy shops. The paper is 36" wide and on a roll so it will accomodate most pattern pieces whole. Warning, this can be expensive if you don't have a "source." Some places charge for each generation of enlargement (generally only 200% at a time) but some don't. You can also save some $ by enlarging as much as you can on self service copiers with 11"x17" paper. Laura FULL MOON The glow and beauty of the stars are nothing near the splendid moon when in her roundness she burns silver about the world. SAPPHO ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 09:59:04 -0700 From: drkangel@sirius.com (Laura Nunemaker) Subject: Re: Costume stuff in San Francisco >With due respect to the person who recommended Green Apple Books on Clement >Street, I went there quite recently and it was a bust. I look at Green Apple Books as if it were a thrift store. You have to search for hidden treasures. Sometimes you will find nothing. I was there about a month ago and walked away with 3 good additions to by meager collection. Laura FULL MOON The glow and beauty of the stars are nothing near the splendid moon when in her roundness she burns silver about the world. SAPPHO ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 10:06:34 -0700 From: drkangel@sirius.com (Laura Nunemaker) Subject: Re: need information Doesn't Alter Years have a web site? FULL MOON The glow and beauty of the stars are nothing near the splendid moon when in her roundness she burns silver about the world. SAPPHO ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 96 09:43:27 PST From: Loren_Dearborn@casmail.calacademy.org (Loren Dearborn) Subject: Re: Costume stuff in San Francisco With due respect to the person who recommended Green Apple Books on Clement Street, I went there quite recently and it was a bust. It's hard to find your way around--the bookstore covers what used to be several separate offices or flats, on different levels; has a mazelike arrangement of bookcases and narrow aisles; and focuses on sheer quantity rather than a careful selection of used books. (Almost all are used, though there are a few remainders.) I can understand why you were so disappointed after a trip like that! But I thought I would mention that I have been there several times now and found some really good deals (unforunately for me they were mostly of books I already own). The Cut of Women's Clothing for $40.00, The Patterns of Fashion earliest period book, the dates escape me, $20.00, and so on. Admittedly there have also been times when I've found nothing, but Green Apple seems to buy entire collections, this can be a big boon when they get an entire costumer's collection. Also, towards the front of the store in the locked cases are bound copies of Petersons, Godey's etc. I don't know the price on these but collectors might be interested. Cheers, Loren Dearborn ldearborn@calacademy.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 10:56:54 -0800 From: "R.L. Shep" Subject: Re: Making day dress pattern larger Laura Nunemaker wrote: > > snip > >If you are significantly larger than the original size, I'd suggest > >enlarging the pattern to your size with a projector. > snip > > >Fran Grimble > > Being somewhat lazy, I enlarge my patterns on an oversize copier, found at > most copy shops. The paper is 36" wide and on a roll so it will accomodate > most pattern pieces whole. Warning, this can be expensive if you don't have > a "source." Some places charge for each generation of enlargement > (generally only 200% at a time) but some don't. You can also save some $ by > enlarging as much as you can on self service copiers with 11"x17" paper. > > Laura > > FULL MOON > > The glow and beauty of the stars > are nothing near the splendid moon > when in her roundness she burns silver > about the world. > > SAPPHO I wanted to do that with some paterns I was printing and Betty Williams of STUDIO in New York, who I consider an expert (and trust completely)when it comes to patterns, both modern and historical, and who teaches such subjects said: do not try to enlarge patterns in a copier as you lose the scale. Apparently copiers distort things just enough to throw them off ( or at least there is the possibility of that). R.L. Shep ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 17:32:04 -0400 From: mhamilto@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Marsha Hamilton) Subject: Re: Saddles >I actually find the 19th cent. cowboy saddles really uncomfortable and a >bit claustrophobic. I made some trashed antique trees into medieval saddles >years ago. Eventually I'll get a new 19th cent. repro. American Civil War cavalry have it soooooooo easy compared to earlier periods. Catalogs of regular western stores (example: Rod's Western Palace) sell what look like authentic reproductions of McClellan saddles. Tree with little padding, tons of rings to attach all one's gear. They were built to keep maximum air flow and light weight to keep the horse cool but BOY do they look uncomfortable for the rider. Has anyone every tried one? Marsha ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 17:31:55 -0400 From: mhamilto@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Marsha Hamilton) Subject: Meanings of colors Read an article long time ago on symbolism of colors/colours in Elizabethan England. I seem to remember blue standing for inconstant or untrue nature. There are relatively few period portraits in blue through there are some--I'm thinking of designs that portray the sky or zodiac or heavens, where use of blue would be natural. Also use of blue silk thread in embroideries of many colors. Never ran across the servant connection before. Marsha >I've just finished a paper on clothing & the English Civil War, >(contemporary reactions to it, more than a study of its specifics) and in >the process of researching it came across several mentions of blue being >for servants. I'm at work at present, so I don't have access to the heap >of books, but one in particular was _Dressed for the Job_, a book on >occupational clothing. Also, as has already been mentioned, Linthicum's >_Costume in the Drama of Shakespeare_. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 17:38:52 -0400 From: LarryKin@aol.com Subject: ancient English all-purpose saddle Julie Adams writes On 5.15.96: About your ancient English all-purpose saddle. In 1949,50 and 51 I rented hacks that were saddled with the non-forward seat English saddles. These saddles were still on the scene then. Eventually one diden't see these saddles that were all replaced by the forward seat saddle originally designed by the Italian calvery. Everybody thought forward seat then. Something that had happened tn the world of throughbred flat racing during the Edwardian era. Even I In 1953 bought a Kiefer forward seat saddle. The West Germans had just won all the jumping events at the Grand National in NY. I won't ask If these early English saddles are available in the vintage world but are they being made by saddle mackers now? nothing is more irritating than seeing a forward seat saddle used in a contempoary made 19th or early 20th century period movie. I feel this post is appropriate for this list since the saddle and side saddle are seen as accessories to the period costumes in these movies along with the whip and spurs during the time a person is mounted on the horse. I suppose that the head costumers in these movies have no jurisdiction in the outfitting of tack. These choices being made by horsemen. It would be way to fastidious demanding the stunt people go over jumps with their posture in the older seat that goes with the non-forward seat saddle during the film shots. We should remember the long history of the English hunt scene at least 200 years of a saddle that put the rider's weight farther back from the center of occilation. The arguement the old timers had then( the reaction to the Italian model and seat being introduced during the 19thirties) was that a person put themselves at risk jumping in the forward seat posture. It was farther back on the horse even during the approach to the jump. Cristopher Reeve"s accident happened on the approach I beleive. So strong was the movement for changing the seat to forward that no younger person would resist it but I remember older people at the time still going over jumps using the earlier seat. On landing the silhouette of the rider is a straight line somewhat parallel to the horses front legs. As seen in the prints by Alken. In the 19 fifties the dressage saddles were non-forward seat and had no knee rolls but all other "English" saddles were designed after the Italian model in all the catalogues I saw. I haven't ridden in 40 yrs. I don't even know what a contemporery dressage saddle looks like. Maybe its even moved the riders weight forward towards the withers. This letter is my second attempt. The earlier letter I took so much time to compose is lost I hope but then I never know...also pleave forgive me for straying off the subject and using to many words. sincerly Larry Kincaid ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 17:32:03 -0400 From: mhamilto@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Marsha Hamilton)) Subject: Boots and stuff >I read a very interesting article in "The Citizen's >Companion", a Civil War reenactor's magazine, on how different the style >of riding in America is now from just the 19th Century....... I'm no expert but ride western weekly. Some earlier techniques were harder on the horse than current trends. For example up until the last 100 years or so, riders leaned back when jumping not forward and pulled back on the reins. You can see this in 18th century English equestrian paintings. It put weight on the horse's hindquarters and made it harder to jump but I guess they thought the rider was less likely to go over the horse's head. In America in the 18th and 19th century, most riders were self taught. (Civil War buffs correct me) I remember reading something about the Northern cavalry being full of town people who could barely stay on a horse. The South had a better riding tradition among the officer class but you still read about a fair number of injuries and deaths from people falling off their mounts and not necessarily in battle. I agree heel height doesn't make a different in keeping the foot from going into the stirrup if you hold your foot correctly using English, Western, or Australian style. On the other hand, people today who ride have access to literature, training, etc, folks then didn't. Godey's women's riding boots in the 1850-60's do not show particularly big heels. I ride with about a 1/2" heel (paddock boots). Some western catalogs are selling reinforced athletic shoes for riding. I saw a Godey's riding boot (late 1850's I think) called a Hussar boot that had the dip in the center front. >>There is an interesting contrast here, shoes in this period were pretty >>disposable, and were not expected to last a long time. Even in 1858, >>>>according to the book _Every Lady Here Own Shoemaker_ ladies' shoes (as >>>>opposed to gaiters or boots?) were expected to last about 6 weeks. It may depend on the type of shoe. Fancy shoes, like dance shoes, appear in the literature from the 1810's at least as being delicate and flimsy and likely to self-destruct after one or more wearings. From surviving examples of most boots and walking shoes, they look like they were meant to last. Wouldn't a real cowboy (with little access to bootmakers) being in bad weather for long periods probably put as much money as possible into their basic possessions: a good pair of boots, a hat, a good saddle, bridle, and blanket? Without those, you risked foot blisters (that could go gangrene), sunburn and sun blindness, piles (big Civil War problem), and even death. Looking at examples in the Bata Shoe Museum in Toronto was great. I highly recommend it to anyone in the area. There are sandals found in bogs, medieval shoes dredged up from the Thames, tons of 19th and 20th century and ethnic shoes. Any Canadians out there? Marsha ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 19:37:58 -0400 From: zorro@netdepot.com (David Marcus & Peggy Lamberson) Subject: Re: Saddles In email on Thu, 16 May 1996 17:32:04 -0400, Marsha Hamilton wrote: >>I actually find the 19th cent. cowboy saddles really uncomfortable and a >>bit claustrophobic. I made some trashed antique trees into medieval saddles >>years ago. Eventually I'll get a new 19th cent. repro. > >American Civil War cavalry have it soooooooo easy compared to earlier >periods. Catalogs of regular western stores (example: Rod's Western >Palace) sell what look like authentic reproductions of McClellan saddles. >Tree with little padding, tons of rings to attach all one's gear. They >were built to keep maximum air flow and light weight to keep the horse cool >but BOY do they look uncomfortable for the rider. Has anyone every tried >one? > >Marsha > > > WHen I was a kid, a friend of mine had one of these saddles. We used to play Wild West calvary with it. I can't remember that we ever put it on a horse, though--it was on a stand. It was quite comfortable to sit in for a short period of time, but I can't speak to what it would feel like to sit in it for hours. Probably, one got used to it--callouses in the right places, etc. But I can't imagine it was a fun process for people who weren't used to _any_ type of saddle! The saddle gives plenty of support in the places where you need it. The central cut-out is right under your crotch, and not having anything there is actually nice (some new bicycle seats are made this way, too). Peggy Lamberson ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 18:00:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Allan Terry Subject: Making day dress pattern larger Meg, Re your request to reprint my posting on altering the day dress pattern in your SCA newsletter: the answer is NO. I make my living as a professional writer and I never grant rights for free. My work is protected by copyright. Much of this posting is drawn from my book _After a Fashion: How to Reproduce, Restore, and Wear Vintage Styles_, published in 1993. Fran Grimble ------------------------------ End of H-Costume Digest V4 #119 ******************************* A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, send the command lines: unsubscribe h-costume-digest subscribe h-costume end in the body of a message to majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com. Thanks and enjoy the list!