From: owner-h-costume-digest (H-Costume Digest) To: h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Subject: H-Costume Digest V4 #126 Reply-To: h-costume Sender: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Errors-To: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk H-Costume Digest Saturday, May 25 1996 Volume 4, Number 126 Compilation copyright (C) 1996 Diane Barlow Close and Gretchen Miller Use in whole prohibited. Individual articles are the property of the author. Seek permission from that author before reprinting or quoting elsewhere. Important Addresses: Send submissions to: h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com (or reply to this message). Adds/drops/archives: majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com Real, live person: h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Topics: Re: Drawstrings/ history / underwear Re: Hobnails Hobnails Looking to buy repro dance clothes. Re: Hobnails Re: Hobnails Corset Boning (18th & 19th C.) Sidesaddle on the Web Re: HBC/métis dress Regency costumes Stocking Question.... Re: HBC/metis dress Re: Stocking Question.... Re: Clocking Question.... Maid in Mourning ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 10:48:34 -0800 From: fsbks@mcn.org (Fred Struthers) Subject: Re: Drawstrings/ history / underwear >Other than the Cunningtons' book and Norma Waugh's "Corsets & Crinolines", I >am at a loss for good books with PRIMARY references for underclothing. Can >anyone add to the list? >Shalom, >Joan Jurancich >aka Lady Dorothy (Hastings) Devereux [RPFN] >joanj@quiknet.com Fred Struthers replies: I mention, not the first time in these pages, FREAKS OF FASHION by Wm. Berry Lord (1868) addressing the tight lacing controversy. Reprinted by RLShep in 1993. A good primary source for attitudes and fashions of the time. ALso: CORSETS: A Visual History compiled by RLShep. primary source illustrations from ads etc. mostly 1870s - 1930s. w/ notes from contemporary sources. THE UNDERCOVER STORY published by FIT & Kyoto Costume Inst in 1983. MANY ILLUS of historic garments DRESS AND UNDRESS (1978) and FASHION IN UNDERWEAR (1971) by Eliz. Ewing, histories of women's underwear. LE CORSET: A Travers Les Ages By Ernest Leoty (1893) HISTORY OF CORSETS (1951) By M. Crawford FOUNDATIONS OF FASHION (1981) by C. Page Remember, if you have the time - a month or so, interlibrary loans for this type of material. University libraries are likely to have these titles, as well. Fred Struthers fsbks@mcn.org ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 14:03:37 -0400 From: Kevin Richard-Morrow Subject: Re: Hobnails >>>At 08:52 AM 5/21/96 -0400, you wrote: >>> The first fellow to suggest hobnail shoes to me was a living history >>>interpeter manning the Philadelphila II gunboat on lake Champlain. He viewed >>>hobnails as mandatory for the wet wood deck of that 18th century boat. >> >>I'm surprised the powers that be let him traipse around the gunboat in >>hobnails, I would have tho't it would have cut up the deck too much. >> Is everybody aware that the Philadephia II is not just a static display but is sailed around lake Champlain in the summer? I think "powers that be" chose to allow, or perhaps suggested, the hobnails as a period correct safety device. Beats doing period correct life saving for the man overboard. :-0 "Powers that be" do tend to change their little minds. I'll find out if hobnails are still allowed when my unit helps man the boat on Sept 28/29 of this year at it's home base in Basin Harbor, Vt. ( Yes, shameless and crass self promotion, mark your calendar) Crpl. Kevin Richard-Morrow 15th Albany County Militia 1777-1784 3rd NY Provincials 1759 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 19:22:31 -0400 From: BarbMVD@aol.com Subject: Hobnails Just curious about reenactors using black powder - can hobnails spark against rock or metal? Barbara Delorey BarbMVD@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 22:19:44 -0700 From: Cin (by way of Cin ) Subject: Looking to buy repro dance clothes. Stanford Vintage Dance Ensemble seeks reproduction women's dance wear for 2 different shows. This is an excellent opportunity to sell your older gowns and clear out your closets for next year's projects. 1. Ballgowns suitable for young women circa 1848-52 are sought. 2. Afternoon "dance frocks" circa 1912-1914 sutiable for a 1914 Tea Dance are needed. Dresses need to be in good condition, washable, yet fit color & styling of their respective eras. Many sizes are needed. We would happily buy 20+ gowns unless our money runs out. Please contact Cynthia Barnes cin@netuser.com for more information. You could describe what you have and what price you're asking. Yes, clothing donations are accepted, too. - --cin cin@netuser.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 02:03:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Conrad Hodson Subject: Re: Hobnails On Wed, 22 May 1996 BarbMVD@aol.com wrote: > Just curious about reenactors using black powder - can hobnails spark against > rock or metal? If they're made of iron or steel, they can certainly spark on hard rocks--just the way it happens in a gunlock. And black powder can ignite from being stepped on on a hard surface, even if no sparks are struck. In the black powder era, powder magazines' crewmen used felt slippers and took great care to prevent spills, lest the whole fort or ship take a quick ride straight up. Conrad Hodson ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 08:42:36 -0400 From: Kevin Richard-Morrow Subject: Re: Hobnails >To: BarbMVD@aol.com >From: Kevin Richard-Morrow >Subject: Re: Hobnails > >At 07:22 PM 5/22/96 -0400, you wrote: >>Just curious about reenactors using black powder - can hobnails spark against >>rock or metal? >> Conrad Hobson did a good job with this, I've just a bit to add. The hobnails on the soles of my feet would be a good distance from my cartridge boxes. Reenator safety rules require a well made leather box/pouch with a flap that covers the paper wrapped cartridges. Alot more sparks and fire are generated from discharging my flintlock (...and nearer my store of powder too) then I could envision coming from hobnail shoes. The safety issue raised is not trivial however. A reenactor MUST take black powder seriously and treat it with due respect. Concern for costuming is part of the safety factor. Kevin Richard-Morrow ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 09:17:55 -0400 From: Dale Loberger Subject: Corset Boning (18th & 19th C.) I was speaking with a fellow re-enactor about constructing the J.P. Ryan 18th C. corset. Having tried various materials for boning, none of them entirely satisfactory, I asked what she'd used. She promptly answered, "basket reeds, especially the type that are slightly round on one side and flat on the other." She went on to state that since this was available on a roll, you could "bone" several corsets for around $10. The 3/8" stuff is good for small to medium sizes and the 5/8" width is better for larger sizes. She has worn a corset like this for five years and only had to replace 2 reeds in the front that broke. She recommends metal boning at the seams for stability, filling in with reeds between the seams. I would like to hear some other comments/testimonials before I try this. It seems *almost* too good to be true! :-) Susannah Eanes, Mantua Maker and Fine Tailoring (Susan B. Loberger, Susannah's Heirloom Ltd.) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 06:52:13 -0500 (CDT) From: dwhite@IO.COM (dwhite) Subject: Sidesaddle on the Web The Texas Ladies Aside, a Peruvian Paso sidesaddle drill team, now have a web site at http://www.islandnet.com/~creator/plib/tla.html It includes an account of their performance for the Peruvian President at the Nationals in Peru which is a thrill just to read. Also is info. about the group and how to contact them. Regards, Dana ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 09:15:33 -0600 (MDT) From: gottfred@agt.net (Jeff Gottfred) Subject: Re: HBC/métis dress I'm amazed! A question actually in my area (if not my exact period). I portray a Metis country wife married to a North West Company wintering partner ca. 1800 for a while, so I have researched many of the same issues. The best reference on dress and daily life of Metis and mixed-blood women is Sylvia Van Kirk's _Many Tender Ties : Women in Fur-Trade Society, 1670-1870, published in Winnipeg by Watson & Dwyer. For pictures, look at the painting of "A Half-breed and his Two Wives" and "Indian Women in Tent" painted by Peter Rindisbacher in the late 1820's. You can find the first in Alvin Josephy's _The Artist was a Young Man_; the second is in Carolyn Gilman's _Where Two Worlds Meet_. Try every painting by Paul Kane you can track down- -start with _Wanderings of an Artist among the Indians of North America_, which describes his travels in 1845 and 1846-8 with HBC head George Simpson. Of particular interest is his portrait of Cunnewabum, a young Metis woman (Cree mother, French-Canadian father). Her dress is on permanent display at the Manitoba Museum of Man & Nature. To summarize what I learned from Van Kirk (21,37, 39, 82, 99-102) : From 1820-1840, most Metis women wore moccasins, red or blue leggings (period journals says Cree women wore knee-length leggings), a nearly ankle-length skirt, and a short gown with a low scoop front. They were very fond of jewellery, especially ear rings, and used blankets in cold or wet weather (despite some pressure to drop this practice). Sometimes, especially during your period, East Indian shawls took the place of the blanket. Also despite considerable pressure, they were often fond of smoking the pipe. They did NOT ususally wear hats, but did braid their hair in single braids which were decorated with beads. In the North West Company up until around 1815 (and probably later), it was customary for a country wife to exchange her Native dress for the "Canadian costume" of short gown, "shirt" (I think "shirt" may be an editor's error for "shift") petticoat, leggings, and moccasins- -all at NWCo. expense. HBC employees may well have done the same, but the HBC had an official ban on marriages for a long time, which may have kept these details from going into official journals. Both HBC and NWC employees lavished money on their Native & metis wives, ordering ribbons, fine fabrics, jewellery, lace, fashion books and much more from back home. Is your character Metis (French-Canadian father and Native--usually Cree or Ojibway--mother) or mixed-blood (English or Orkney father and Native--usually Cree--mother? The term mE9tis is often used today to refer to either. Is your character married to a servant of the HBC (labourer) or an officer (clerk or trader)? And is your (fictional) spouse a former employee of the North West Company, which was absorbed into the HBC in 1821? Many of the more famous HBC people in the Oregon territory were (eg. Dr. John McLoughlin). All of this may shade your interpretation of your costume. I feel the wife of a high- ranking husband is more likely to have a fairly European costume (but still retain leggings & moccasins), while a labourer's wife may (as an economy measure as well as a social one) wear the Native dress of her mother. If she and/or her husband are former Nor'westers, she is more likely to wear the petticoat/short gown combo described above. Hope this helps--don't hesitate to e-mail me for more info. I'd love to chat. - --Angela Gottfred gottfred@agt.net Chief Clerk, Northwest Brigade Club http://www.agt.net/public/gottfred/nwj.html ------------------------------ Date: 24 May 96 10:51:54 -0700 From: "SNORTON.US.ORACLE.COM" Subject: Regency costumes The Jane Austen Society of North America Presents A Spring Luncheon Featuring A Talk on Making Regency Costumes and A Costume Display Saturday, June 1, 1996 Presidio Golf Club, San Francisco 11:30 - 2:30 $16.50 per person Attendees are encouraged, but not required to wear Regency dress Call Anita Gillespie to reserve your space 415.673.9521 Reservations must be made in advance No tickets will be sold at the door Directions: In San Francisco, Take Arguello Blvd north to The Presidio's Arguello "Gate". Just inside the Gate, turn left and follow the road past the Clubhouse (a Tudor-style building) to the parking area against the wall. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 16:38:27 CST From: TOMBGUARD Subject: Stocking Question.... To all, Thank you for looking at the post, to begin with. My question is in a few parts. To begin with, I understand that the embroidery that I have seen on stockings worn by both women and men re-enactors of 18th Century, is call clocking, is this correct? Is this embroidery on the stockings historically accurate for the 18th Cen, esp. the English colonies in America? If the above are correct, what class level would wear such adornment on their stockings? And finally where might I find a reference and/or source for this? Thanks much. Robert NEIDLRH@WKUVX1.WKU.EDU What colors are most correct mC9IL Robert H. Neidlinger NEIDLRH@WKUVX1.WKU.EDU "The Tomb Guard" Robert.Neidlinger@BGAMUG.COM "Ask me a question and I'll reply, Cottleston, Cottleston, Cottleston Pie" Winnie the Pooh ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 09:54:33 -0400 From: MDSDMB@aol.com Subject: Re: HBC/metis dress Have you seen the May/June issue of PIECEWORK magazine? There's quite a nice article on Voyageur finger woven sashes. P'WORK is on newsstands or can be gotten from Interweave Press 800-272-2193. No, I don't work for them. I just think their publications are fabulous. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 10:04:16 -0400 From: MDSDMB@aol.com Subject: Re: Stocking Question.... The first book I reached for AN ELEGANT ART, Fashion and Fantasy in the 18th Century is a catalog of an exhibition at the Los Angeles County Museum of Art in 1983. Edward Maeder curated the exhibit. He is now the director of the Bata Shoe Museum in Toronto (?) Canada. Doubtless, there are other sources. Look in RURAL PENNSYLVANIA CLOTHING, or talk to someone from the Brigade of the American Revolution about other primary sources. Anyone from BAR out there? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 May 96 12:38:12 -0700 From: Martha Underwood Subject: Re: Clocking Question.... In message <009A2D17.E6078800.69@WKUVX1.WKU.EDU> you write: >To begin with, I understand that the embroidery that I have seen on >stockings worn by both women and men re-enactors of 18th Century, is >call clocking, is this correct? As I understand it, it does not have to be embroidery. Some knit/purl patterns on socks/stockings are called clocks as well. >Is this embroidery on the stockings historically accurate for the 18th >Cen, esp. the English colonies in America? And earlier. I believe that clocks were found as early as the 16th cen (or is it the 1600's....I don't remember) >If the above are correct, what class level would wear such adornment >on their stockings? This I cannot help with, though I would assume that the later you go, the lower the class would be. ie. in the 16th cen - Royalty, the 17th - - merchant...etc....(do not take these as acurrate dates, they aren't) >And finally where might I find a reference and/or source for this? I know that Interweave Press has a book called "Folk Socks" that has a bit about clocking and historical references. I would check it out. (Feel free to email me if you want a copy, I can get them) Good luck! Martha Underwood Johanna MacAnna in the SCA Who usually is found in the 14th cen. Martha "Dream Dancer" Underwood ddancer@nstitches.com Five(!) cats and a Needlework shop........Talk about an interesting life! Owner of: Natural Stitches: Knitting, Crochet, Cross-Stitch and more A Pittsburgh Needlework Shop ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 14:06:23 -0400 From: QLemery@aol.com Subject: Maid in Mourning Thank you all so very much! I can't tell you how much I enjoy all the ideas that go through this group. Your advice is great and I've read through the responses several times now. Yes, watching rehearsals is always a must for costuming. I take all my stuff down to the rehearsal hall and camp out in the back of the room. That way I get to watch all the fun AND I don't get caught off guard by the last minutes adds/deletes and total rewrites that directors like to do. Unfortunately, I might not get the time to look, then create. We've scheduled some publicity appearances early on in rehearsals so I can't count on waiting until the choreographer finalizes the dances until I create. However, having said that I have talked with the choregorapher about the style of the piece. The director we're working with is very talented, and very involved in everything! He tends to hover too much until you can show him sketches that he likes. His only input on the character was what I've passed on before (sexy, dangerous and in mourning). He's very insistant that she wear black even if it's not the proper mourning color. (I really don't know whether it is or not. Probably not since the Scots tended to be very practical and didn't fuss much with apparel to match occassions.) Given all your wonderful input about shawls, plaids, and movement--here's what I'm thinking about. (Please forgive my ignorance of the proper terms. I'm the draw it and sew it type. Wouldn't know the right term if it bit me in the....) I have some white wrinkle cotton (like a very HEAVY gauze) that I can dye black. Skirts of the time were mid-calf, which is good for ballet. I thought I would cut the skirt full-circle for lots of movement and flow. The bodice I have in mind would be formed, but not fitted. I'm thinking about insetting a center panel and having the sides tie across the center (sort of the "corset on the outside" look). I don't know if this is appropriate for the time (1696-1700) or place (Scotland), because I haven't been able to find much description of bodices of that time/place. The sleeves are a real puzzle though. For ballet, the should be non-existant or very form fitting. For the style of dress they could be 3/4-length straight or full length and very full. I'm really stumped here. I thought about making them moderately full and lacing them (similar to the bodice) close to the arm from just above the elbow, but I really think I'm blowing athenticity out of the water with that one. We're doing this production with very little spent of sets and very much ($$$$) spent on costuming. The director wants to make 1696 Scotland believable through the costuming, so I'm trying not to offend history too badly. We're even doing belted plaids instead of the more commonly used kilt/sash combination. The scene with this woman (Maggie) in mourning is staged so she dances over and around the body of her beloved (the evil, but sexy Harry Beaton) who has died trying to leave Brigadoon, which would have destroyed the magical village forever. The choreographer and I talked about Maggie being shroud in a black with a shawl. She could leave her shawl draped/wrapped about him and take his tartan and dance with it, in it, etc. The tartan then becomes her dance partner. Your helpful thoughts are always welcome. I'll keep you posted on my progress. P.S. Being new to this list, I've love to hear more about how you all got into this sort of thing and the groups you're involved with. Take care! Querida ------------------------------ End of H-Costume Digest V4 #126 ******************************* A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, send the command lines: unsubscribe h-costume-digest subscribe h-costume end in the body of a message to majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com. Thanks and enjoy the list!