From: owner-h-costume-digest (H-Costume Digest) To: h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Subject: H-Costume Digest V4 #129 Reply-To: h-costume Sender: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Errors-To: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk H-Costume Digest Wednesday, May 29 1996 Volume 4, Number 129 Compilation copyright (C) 1996 Diane Barlow Close and Gretchen Miller Use in whole prohibited. Individual articles are the property of the author. Seek permission from that author before reprinting or quoting elsewhere. Important Addresses: Send submissions to: h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com (or reply to this message). Adds/drops/archives: majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com Real, live person: h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Topics: Admin: Archives now available via WWW Re: Folkwear #508 1915 Traveling Suit 14th century clerical garb Re: 14th century clerical garb Re: Hobnails Re: Costume Books Color usage in Plimoth - 17c hangers? Spiral steel boning Elizabethan Drag Re: Corset Boning (18th & 19th C.) Re: HBC/metis dress Re: 14th century clerical garb Re: Costume Books shirt & blouse yokes Patterns RE: Elizabethan Drag 1st C. BC Irish Celts? Re: Karl Kohler's "Schaube" or German Scholar's coat Elizabeth's Wardrobe unlocked ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 11:33:12 -0700 (PDT) From: close (Diane Barlow Close) Subject: Admin: Archives now available via WWW Ta Da! :-) I have made the h-costume archives available from my husband's web page! The archives are available as "hypertext" sorted by date or subject and you can also search all volumes or just specific years. They are also available as zip files by year (i.e. volume 1 and volume 2), and I even renamed the files in the zip archives for you MS-DOS folks :) The url is: http://reality.sgi.com/pdc/h-costume/index.html Note that the archives on the web page are updated quarterly only. If you need the "latest and greatest", you'll have to get them the old way, by e-mailing to majordomo (the mailing list server) directly. The majordomo-available archives (ie. those available through e-mail, directly from the mailing list server) are always completely up-to-date. This is the first cut at this -- let me know what you think... I've added a generic copyright notice to help protect everyone's work, just like when you access the regular archives via e-mail. For now the url address is unpublished (ie. there's no link from the main page), but eventually I think I'll add one in once you guys get a chance to test and "play" there awhile. P.S., if you don't have WWW access, I'm sorry that I can't make these available any way other than WWW or mail (via majordomo). - -- Diane Close I'm at lunch all day. :-) If a Canadian Had Said It First (The Globe & Mail): "Cry havoc, and let loose the dogs of a peacekeeping mission!" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 12:32:51 -0700 (PDT) From: close (Diane Barlow Close) Subject: Re: Folkwear #508 1915 Traveling Suit Tudorldy@aol.com wrote: > I've heard a rumor that this pattern was recalled by Folkwear because of > something being wrong with the sleeve. Does anyone here know if this is > actually true, and if so, how it can be compensated for? Yes, it's true. There was a mistake made in the earliest release of this pattern. Most did NOT reach the consumer and Folkwear put out a recall for any that did. If your pattern has the problem you can send it back to Folkwear for a replacement. If you call them they'll be able to identify whether or not your pattern has this problem. Generally, if you bought the pattern after April 1995, then you're safe. Here's the info given in a digest of late last year (by Gary of AlterYears): Gary Anderson <72437.674@compuserve.com> wrote back in March of 1995: If anyone was (un)lucky enough to buy this pattern now, Taunton Press is replacing them for free when the new ones come out in late April, 1995. If you call their customer service department (800-888-8286) and let them know they'll send you a fixed copy when they are available. Otherwise you can write to them: The Taunton Press, Inc. 63 S. Main Street P.O. Box 5506 Newtown, CT 06470-5506 (The pattern's problem, fyi, is with the fit of the sleeve.) - -- Diane Close I'm at lunch all day. :-) If a Canadian Had Said It First (The Globe & Mail): "Cry havoc, and let loose the dogs of a peacekeeping mission!" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 16:18:39 -0400 From: ConalMacD@aol.com Subject: 14th century clerical garb Hello everyone. This is my first foray out onto the net for information. Maybe someone can help me out. Does anyone know of any good sources for information on clerical garb worn during the first part of the 14th century in the Holy Roman Empire. Specifically, I am looking for info on dalmatics. Wendy Duffey ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 16:54:16 -0400 (EDT) From: aleed Subject: Re: 14th century clerical garb > Does anyone know of any good sources for information on clerical garb worn > during the first part of the 14th century in the Holy Roman Empire. > Specifically, I am looking for info on dalmatics. Hmm. The only primary reference about Clerical garb in the HRE that I know of is the Nurnburger Kunstbuch, which contains material on clerical garb and the making thereof. I believe its writing spans the 1500s, so it's a bit late for your period. The version I have is in middle german, and I don't know where you could find an english translation. Another good book on the subject would be "Church vestments: their origin and development" by Herbert Norris. That's all I can think of. Good luck! Drea Leed - ------------------------ We've secretly replaced their dilithium crystals with new Folger's Crystals. Now let's watch them go to warp. - -------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 16:57:47 -0400 From: Kevin Richard-Morrow Subject: Re: Hobnails At 10:32 AM 5/28/96 -0400, you wrote: >>>> The first fellow to suggest hobnail shoes to me was a living history >>>>interpeter manning the Philadelphila II gunboat on lake Champlain. > our research >tends to favor that hobnails were "Ganz Verboten" on board ship as 1) they >were slippery and presented a safety hazard on wet decks, and 2) tended to >tear up and/or splinter a deck which was intentionally kept meticulously >smooth by holystoning every morning. > >Mind you, the Philadelphia was a Continental ship, and not Royal Navy, so the >case noted above as a requirement might well be true, though for the >mentioned reasons above, I cast my doubts. > As the author of the the first qoute above I took it on my self to give the Lake Champlain Maritime Museum, where the Philadelphila II is docked, a quick call call to check their policy. I spoke to Dale Henry who stated that there is no view on hobnails, pro or con, aboard that gunboat. He was aware that some vessels forbade them, he mentioned the Rose by name, due to the damage they cause to the soft pine decking. As the Philadelphia II has a oak hardwood deck he was of the opinion that limited use of hobnails would not do damage. He said he would check with the folks who do more of the maintenance on the boat and ask if they have a view. As to hobnails use on the original Philadelphia (which now "docks" in the Smithsonian in D.C.) in the 18th century I don't know, but I'll ask on the Rev War list if anyone does. This gunboat was part of the slap together fleet, with scratch together crews, that Benedict Arnold had made up for service on lake Champlain in 1776. While this fleet is sometimes viewed as the start of the American Navy I doubt much of the practice onboard would have compared to His Majesty's Royal Navy. Kevin Richard-Morrow ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 17:10:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Donna Flood Kenton Subject: Re: Costume Books >The Workwoman's Guide by a Lady I have this one, and I love it. It has drawings of all kinds of things, some actual patterns, and text descriptions of how to make just about everything. I've used the knitting patterns many times, as well as the dresses. Multiple sleeve styles. I think it's well worth the price. I got mine as Old Sturbridge Village, and judging from some of their hats, etc, it's pretty much been a Bible for them. Good luck! - -- Donna ___________________________________ Donna Flood Kenton -- donna@zipnet.net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 May 96 22:36:13 UT From: "Susan Carter" Subject: Color usage in Plimoth - 17c I just found time to sit down and read over the recent discussion of colors used for clothing - especially blue for servants. Then I pulled out my work on Plimoth Colony textiles. Hmmm - this is a rough survey taken from hundreds of inventories 1633 to about 1680: Black - lots of clothes Blue - some stockings and aprons, 2 blue suits, 1 coat, 1 pair garters Brown - thread Gray - some clothing Green - aprons, waistcoats, child's coat, 1 petticoat, 1 gown Hair colored - 1 gown, 1 suit Lead colored - 1 suit Murrey - 1 apron Red - petticoats, waistcoats, drawers Russet - coat Tawney - suit Violet -petticoat, waistcoats, coat, cloak White - aprons, waistcoats, stockings Remember, this only represents the colors that the inventory takers bothered to record - someday I'll have total counts of the undescribed things for comparison but I feel this list is still interesting. By way of comparison, the colors used for furnishing fabrics were : Green (lots), Red, Blue, Yellow(a few). A bit more fodder for the insatiable information mill - Su Carter Weaver (508) 746-1622 ext.214 Plimoth Plantation sucarter@msn.com Box 1620 Plymouth, MA 02362 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 23:20:02 +0000 From: William Wills Subject: hangers? Can anyone tell me if circa 1888 - 1890, there were "hangers" and if so what type and made of what material? We need the info for a play we are producing. Thanks Bill Wills ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 23:43:23 -0700 From: Joan Broneske Subject: Spiral steel boning Does anyone know where I can get spiral steel boning that I can cut myself, like on a roll or such (not in cut lengths)? Joan Broneske ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 02:45:56 -0400 From: PiranhaBB@aol.com Subject: Elizabethan Drag Help me please... I need actual documentation (period pictures, paintings, writing) that shows women dressed in men's clothing for the hunt, riding, or other any other practical reason during the Elizabethan Renaissance. Someone told me it's out there, I need only to find it. If anyone out there in Costume Heaven has anything, please send me a bibliography or scanned images. Many thanks, Lisa ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 10:27:30 -0400 From: MDSDMB@aol.com Subject: Re: Corset Boning (18th & 19th C.) Hve you asked the corset researchers at Colonial Williamsburg? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 10:27:34 -0400 From: MDSDMB@aol.com Subject: Re: HBC/metis dress Have you seen the May/June issue of PIECEWORK magazine? Nice article on finger-woven sashes. Get it on the newsstand or call 800-272-2193. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 10:27:47 -0400 From: MDSDMB@aol.com Subject: Re: 14th century clerical garb THE BOOK OF COSTUME by Milia Davenport, pp 93-102, has a very rough overview of Ecclesiastical garments in your time period. Just get to your library and look in the "card" catalog for church history and get books that brag about illustrations from Interlibrary Loan. If you live in a major Archdiocese, try their PR office. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 10:27:40 -0400 From: MDSDMB@aol.com Subject: Re: Costume Books I don't know how experienced you are as a researcher or as a costumer, so it's hard to say just HOW indispensible any of the books on your list are to you. I have Devere and The Workwoman's Guide and wouldn't be without them, but I've been doing this historic costume thing for (heavens!) almost 20 years. Good luck, and post more book requests! ------------------------------ Date: 29 May 96 13:42:30 EDT From: AWILSON@anca.gov.au (Wilson, Annette) Subject: shirt & blouse yokes Can anyone tell me when the yoke which is now the common element in men's business shirts and many women's blouses was first used. I have sometimes seen that shirt construction recommended (in 'costuming for the complete beginner' type books) for 15th and 16th century shirts but I have never seen a picture of anything like it in period art. The closest thing to it, visually, is probably the partlet, which has no other association with it except possibly inspiration? Thanks for satisfying my curiosity. Annette Wilson Email: awilson@anca.gov.au ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 18:27:26 -0700 From: dargon@televar.com (Ian Dow) Subject: Patterns I am looking for information on pattern for Womens dresses around the 17centuri. The pattern would be made into dresses for the SCA - ---------- http://www.televar.com/~dargon & http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/3992/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 10:54:36 -0700 From: Sandra Davis Subject: RE: Elizabethan Drag >Help me please... >I need actual documentation (period pictures, paintings, writing) that = >shows women dressed in men's clothing for the hunt, riding, or other = any >other practical reason during the Elizabethan Renaissance. Someone = >told me it's out there, I need only to find it. If anyone out there in = >Costume Heaven has anything, please send me a bibliography or >scanned = images. I have seen references to this in Italy (late 1400's - early 1500's), = but I wasn't sure if you only wanted actual "Elizabethan" references, = and/or if you wanted them only for England. If you are interested in = this reference, e-mail me privately and I will try to locate it. Also, you might check any bibliographies or databases you come across = for the term "Roaring Girls", which I believe was used to refer to = certain women dressed in men's clothing in England, during the = Elizabethan era. Good luck - Sandra ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 16:30:38 -0500 From: corbie@radix.net (Mara Riley) Subject: 1st C. BC Irish Celts? Not yet having been able to get my hands on a copy of McClintock's book, I need a little help... I've got my 5th c. AD Celtic costume together in a somewhat acceptable fashion (thanks in part to Dunleavy's book), but I find that the Clanne is doing a 1st century BC Celtic reenactment in mid-June. They're situating the fictional encampment on the western coast of England, so I'm going to go as an Irish trader, along with my husband. My question is: what would the Irish in this period have worn? To the best of my knowledge, about 600 years later the men are wearing a leine (different from the leine of the 1500s) -- a tunic with fairly fitted sleeves, which flares out from the waist, and possibly having some sort of flap extending from the back to wrap around and tuck into the belt at the front. Trews would have been worn among the lower classes. Women would have worn a long gown (basic t-tunic sort of thing), possibly with a shorter-hemmed and -sleeved over tunic. I've sometimes read that there was an off-centered keyhole-shaped neckline. (Corrections welcome, if you can cite better sources.) I think trews are similar in both periods. For the 1st C. BC: - -- Would the man's tunic have been the same (i.e., flared from the waist), or cut straight down the sides? - -- Would the women of Ireland have been wearing the long gown, shaped like a t-tunic, or something more like the Roman-influenced peplos (tube-dress, fastened at the shoulders) that some continental women had adopted? And if they were using the peplos, were they wearing a t-tunic style gown under it, to compensate for for the harsher weather? Needless to say, the Clanne I'm (sort of) a member of is not terribly good at providing historical information to its members... (grin) So I'm on my own on this one, and trying my best! Thanks for your help, Corbie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 15:12:42 -0400 (EDT) From: aleed Subject: Re: Karl Kohler's "Schaube" or German Scholar's coat > I still am "furring" the collar all the way down the front- I > just don't want to line the inside. If you have made similar sleeves, is > there any special method? I am most concerned with the setting into the > armhole. ANY related advice would be welcome! > - -Cut out two copies of the sleeve you're going to make, one out of the outside fabric and one out of the lining - -sew the outside sleeve lining sleeve together so that you have two sleeves, and sew the bottom wrist edge of the outside and lining together so that, when you turn the lining to the inside of the sleeve, the wrist edge will be finished on the outside. This requires careful planning and logistics, so you don't sew the wrong side of anything. I've screwed this step up more times than I like to remember. - -Gather and sew the outer sleeve to the armscye of the garment like you would a normal sleeve. (I've always found this easier to do by hand.) Then pull the lining sleeve up the inside of the outer sleeve to the armscye, gather it if the sleeve's to be gathered, turn the edge down, and hand-stitch it to the same seam that the outside sleeve was stitched to. Whew. When I make lined sleeves but don't want to line the whole garment, that's how I do it. It's more tedious and time-consuming than sewing the sleeve and lining together at the ends and then sewing them both to the shoulder as one piece of fabric, but you get a finished inside as well as an outside. I've always been over-enthusiastic about finished seams. What pattern is it that you're making? Did you get it out of a book, or is it a pattern that you bought? Drea Leed - --------------------------------- Eagles may soar, but weasels never get sucked into jet engines. - -------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 May 96 18:26:01 PDT From: Ches@mail.io.com Subject: Elizabeth's Wardrobe unlocked __.oO*Oo.__ I know that there has been a lot of discussion on this book. My question however is what is the best price you have found it at and where? I am looking at a copy that costs 139.95 from Amazon D. G. Ciao @}\ Ches @}----`--,-- http://www.io.com/~ches/ @}/ ------------------------------ End of H-Costume Digest V4 #129 ******************************* A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, send the command lines: unsubscribe h-costume-digest subscribe h-costume end in the body of a message to majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com. Thanks and enjoy the list!