From: owner-h-costume-digest (H-Costume Digest) To: h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Subject: H-Costume Digest V4 #130 Reply-To: h-costume Sender: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Errors-To: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk H-Costume Digest Friday, May 31 1996 Volume 4, Number 130 Compilation copyright (C) 1996 Diane Barlow Close and Gretchen Miller Use in whole prohibited. Individual articles are the property of the author. Seek permission from that author before reprinting or quoting elsewhere. Important Addresses: Send submissions to: h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com (or reply to this message). Adds/drops/archives: majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com Real, live person: h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Topics: War of 1812 - Siege of Fort Erie Eliz Drag Re: Costume Books Re: Patterns Folkwear/Taunton Press Costume Books Reply:1870 - 1875 Hats Folkwear/Taunton Double messg. Re: Double messg. Re: Karl Kohler's "Schaube" or German Scholar's coat Re: Elizabeth's Wardrobe unlocked Need help with double running stitch (Holbein stitch) Re: Karl Kohler's "Schaube" or German Scholar's coat ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 19:03:47 -0700 From: John Sek Subject: War of 1812 - Siege of Fort Erie Hi to all, At the last steering committee meeting for the re-enactment event "Siege of Fort Erie", the Niagara Parks Commission has asked that I send a reminder message to all who plan to attend, to ask for the speedy return of all registration forms. This information is required in order to start ordering provisions normally provided at Fort Erie. Also, anyone who has not received an invitation as of yet, please contact myself as noted below. There has been some additions to this years event including a Military Ball. The Ball is being conducted by the Town of Fort Erie and indirectly by Niagara Parks, therefore anyone who requires further details, can contact me directly or see my 1812 Web Page. I am also still seeking help or comments from anyone who can assist in suggestions for the Military Ball as well, particulary in the aspects of historical correctness. As this is our first attempt, perhaps we can avoid some unexpected complications. The Web page on the "Siege of Fort Erie" is being well received and is usually current within a few days of changes. Please check in for updates. In addition, I would like to receive more input from other 1812 units, who would like to have a "free" site to list their unit. I am also excepting and have posted a list of all known War of 1812 events and welcome anyone to contribute to this as well. - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- John Sek voice: 1-905-871-7449 222 Emerick Avenue fax: 1-905-871-0696 Fort Erie, ON e-mail: jsek@iaw.com Canada L2A 2W5 - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- August 9 - 11, 1996 Historical Re-enactment of the "Siege of Fort Erie" Be there, you won't forget. Visit Web page: http://www.iaw.com/~jsek ------------------------------ Date: 30 May 96 10:52:00 GMT From: Mrs C S Yeldham Subject: Eliz Drag The only evidence of drag I've come across even close to period was a play I went to a few years ago based on the life of a Roaring Girl called Moll (Helen Mirren starred), but that was Restoration period. She wore normal mens clothes for the period, which would seem logical (if you are trying to pretend to be a man, special clothes would rather defeat the point). Lower orders would be easier (slops/maybe venetians) than fashionable trunk hose and long netherhose which do tend to show off the shape of the leg! Could I ask why the question arose? I do have my doubts about the feasability of women living as men in this period. Not only was it strongly disapproved of, but people lived very public lives. If you stayed at an inn, you would expect to share a bed with several other people. If you were rich enough not to worry about that, then you would have body servants who would sleep in the same room. Clothes were made by professional tailors - and fitted! The only drag we do have evidence for is male to female, young men dressing as women in plays. But then, what else would an Elizabethan expect of actors :) ! Yours confusedly Caroline ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 08:34:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Irene Joshi Subject: Re: Costume Books I don't have the Amazon drygoods catalog at hand, so I don't know how much description it gives but here's my personal rundown on some of the titles you've mentioned. The Ladies self instructor is actually two books in one but paged continuously. The first is devoted to embroidery and applique and the 2nd to "all branches of plain sewing ..." The publisher has added illustrations from Godey's for that time period to further illustrate the items covered in the Ladies self instructor. This is what ladies of the time would have used to produce the garments and accessories involved. Termiology, techniques etc are obviously authentics. So if 1850's are your time period I don't see how you could do without it. Civil War Ladies is a similar item for that period. But much more illustrations and somewhat less detailed instructions (at least it seems that way to me). Both books include patterns for clothing. Rather basic but it's the trimmings and embellishments where you'll get lots of ideas. Children's clothing is included. For gents you'll need Handbook of practical cutting. Exclusively men's clothing but with detailed instructions (from 1866) for measuring to get the correct fit. This book was intended for professional tailors. Dress and cloak cutter, women's costume 1877-1882, Similar to above but augmented with contemporary fashion illustrations and a section on "The etiquette of dresss" which discribes the appropriate women's attire for various times and occasions with tips for colors and accessories. Need to know what is an appropriate croquet costume, what to wear for a soiree or the opera, theatre, visiting, etc. How could a lady step outside the home without this knowledge? Does that help? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 10:29:09 -0400 From: MDSDMB@aol.com Subject: Re: Patterns As I recall, 17th C is out of SCA period. That said, let me note that my persona is an early 17th C American planter. Refer to Janet Arnold's Patterns of Fashion 1550-1650. There ain't none better (I didn't say easier). ------------------------------ Date: 30 May 1996 10:13:19 -0800 From: "Carole Newson-Smith" Subject: Folkwear/Taunton Press 5/30/96 10:14 AM Folkwear/Taunton Press I was told by a friend (who owns a traveling SCA bookstore) that all Folkwear patterns are now out of print. If I remember correctly, it was because Taunton was supposedly out of business. Carole Newson-Smith (SCA: Cordelia Toser) ------------------------------ Date: 30 May 1996 10:21:46 -0800 From: "Carole Newson-Smith" Subject: Costume Books 5/30/96 10:19 AM Costume Books dargon writes: >I am looking for information on pattern for Womens dresses around the >17centuri. The pattern would be made into dresses for the SCA. Dargon, I don't know what group within the SCA you play with, but the official language says up to *pre* 17th century. If you want Elizabethan or earlier, the book I use most is the Holkeboer book on theatrical costuming. (It's at home, of course, and I am at work.) To get the exact title (and a price quote), email Derek at theducks@best.com and tell him Cordelia sent you. Carole Newson-Smith (SCA Cordelia Toser) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 10:30:07 -0800 From: fsbks@mcn.org (Fred Struthers) Subject: Reply:1870 - 1875 Hats >From: SFDey@aol.com >Date: Sun, 26 May 1996 22:44:06 -0400 >To: h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com >Subject: 1870 - 1875 Hats >Sender: owner-h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com >Precedence: bulk > >I am looking for straw and felt hats that would have been worn 1870 - 1875. > We are doing first person interpertation of life on the Miami & Erie canal, >in particular the summer of 1875. If anyone has any suggestions for types >and especially sources I would like to hear from you. >Thanks. > Sources: J. Townsend & Sons, Inc. sells such hats 133 N. First St. P O Box 415 Pierceton, IN 46562 write for a catalog As does Amazon Drygoods: 2218 E. 11th St. Davenport, IA 52803 319 322-6800 catalog $2 AlterYears has hat patterns, several from that era, men & women email: 72437.674@compuserve.com 3749 E. Colorado Blvd. Pasadena, CA 91107 catalog $5 In my catalog I sell a well illustrated book from Bucks Co. Historical Society on how they were made. My address: fsbks@mcn.org Cheers Fred Struthers ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 12:42:29 -0500 (CDT) From: "SHERYL J. NANCE" Subject: Folkwear/Taunton >I was told by a friend (who owns a traveling SCA bookstore) >that all Folkwear patterns are now out of print. If I remember >correctly, it was because Taunton was supposedly out of >business. Half right. Folkwear patterns are out of print. However Tauton Press is alive & well. They publish my favorite sewing magazine and some of my favorite sewing books. They simply decided to discontinue their line of patterns. Sheryl J. Nance ...one of the secret masters of Kansas City MO Public Library the world: a librarian. They p_sheryl@kcpl.lib.mo.us control information. Don't ever p**s one off. - Spider Robinson, _The Callahan Touch_ (Opinions expressed in this message do not reflect the viewpoint of the Kansas City MO Public Library.) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 12:21:12 -0700 (MST) From: cwood@primenet.com (Ysabeau) Subject: Double messg. I seem to be getting double sends of some messages--not all, just some. Is that just me or are others having the same problem???? And thanks to all who responded to my query about the costume books. Now I need to start saving my pennies! Ta. Ysa ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 12:38:27 -0700 (PDT) From: close (Diane Barlow Close) Subject: Re: Double messg. Ysabeau wrote: > I seem to be getting double sends of some messages--not all, just some. Is > that just me or are others having the same problem???? The list is set up so that when someone answers a question that you asked, one copy is sent to you directly AND one copy is sent to the list. Since you are on the list, you'll get a copy of that response too. Thus two copies. - -- Diane Close I'm at lunch all day. :-) If a Canadian Had Said It First (The Globe & Mail): "Cry havoc, and let loose the dogs of a peacekeeping mission!" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 10:05:43 +1000 From: Sarah Randles Subject: Re: Karl Kohler's "Schaube" or German Scholar's coat I am posting this reply from a friend who is not on the list, but has made a fabulous version of this coat. Sarah > >I have made a Schaube based on Kohnler which worked very well, after >some initial playing around with the pattern. My version is the one >without the yoke, with a heavy square collar down the back, very full >about the cvvalves (in Kohler, he has an illo showing the back). > >My version is not fur lined (not enough fur) but has fur on the revers >and collar and around the edges of the mid arm slits. The schaube is >made of a heavy wool, which hangs well and is very warm. The lining >is cotton - I didn't match it to the fur colour, but that would work >even better. > >The body is essentially a full circle cut - Kohler shows a half front >and half back. Redraft to make sure the coat ends mid calf. > >On the back, you must add a rectangular piece for the back collar - >deep enough to go halfway down your back (as per Kohler, Durer etc) >and wide enough to span the shoulders. This width measurement must >also equal the total neckscye - cut this deeper at the front if >necessary. (this is *hard* without drawing pictures!) > >The armhole is neat - it's an isoceles triangular hole centred on the >side seam - I think mine was about 25cm wide at the base and 45-50 cm >for the sides. Start the top of the triangle at the point of the >shoulder, or better a bit above. If it's below, you won't be able to >lift your arms with the weight of fabric. > >The sleeves are wide and deep, full from the armscye, tapering to the >lower arm and cut in at the wrist as per Kohler (might be on another >page). I put in vertical slits as seen in Crahach and Holbein, to >front of centre, so I can easily put your arms through if I don't want >the heavy sleeves. My slits were about 20cm long and edged with fur. > >Make sure you mount the fur on lining or backing fabric, to reduce the >strain, especially around the neck. > >This all takes a fair amount of fabric. I cut the back as a half >circle and the front as two quarters tucked in to each end of the half >circle, then the sleeves and collar. I think I used about 5m of 150cm >fabric, but I'm not very tall. > >I hope this helps. I'm happy to answer detailed questions if you like. > >Mistress Rowan Perigrynne (a German persona despite the name) >aka Robyn Probert >hotline@lawpoint.com.au **************************************************************************** ******** Sarah Randles ser@adminserver.canberra.edu.au Research Office Phone: (06) 201 2955 University of Canberra Fax: (06) 201 5381/5999 Her on thysum geare waes micel unfrith on Angelcynnes londe. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 19:44:36 -0700 From: denikai@ix.netcom.com (Marie Denikas) Subject: Re: Elizabeth's Wardrobe unlocked My husband got my copy at the New York Museum of Metropolitan Art for $125. But, that was 2 years ago. That was a lovely souvenier from his trip, wouldn't you say? Marie ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 May 96 11:01:19 EDT From: CS23001@MAINE.maine.edu (Lisa A. Tyson) Subject: Need help with double running stitch (Holbein stitch) I am starting to work on recreating the blackwork embroidered cuffs as seen on the Lady Jane Seymour painting. The design itself is simple but I believe it is intended to have both front and back sides of the piece showing. Thus, I believe it is worked on a single layer of linen. At least, that is my assumption. I've mostly done cross stitch and have done a little bit with double running stitch for pieces in which the back does not show. I would like to know _how_ I am supposed to be beginning and ending each new thread on the work so as to cleverly disguise the ends. I've tried a few ways but can't seem to get anything but a little bit of loose thread and possibly a little knotted ball. I've referred to several books but what I have seen already has lots of patterns but insufficient explanation about what is happening (or supposed to be happening) on the back of the work. I would like to ask for a good citation in book(s), perhaps someone can explain it as a response, or someone who is kind enough in the US to let me mail a SASE and 14-count Aida piece (so I can see it clearly) and put a few stitches in as a demo. I realize that using double running stitch helps eliminate the threads showing through from the other side of the work. If it was intended to be truly reversible, then there is some technique that I should be using but am totally clueless about. I guess as an alternative I could sew together two Holbein stitched cuff strips to form a single cuff that would look ok either side. Some of the photos I have seen edge the cuffs with a dark cord (I guess) and I guess I could just use a dark cord at the very end of the cuffs and thus hide the joining a little bit (I'm thinking piping trim at the fabric store). This is just random speculation though.... Any help would be appreciated. I'm sure I'm not the first one to scratch their head over neatly beginning and ending the double running stitch (aka Holbein stitch, spanish stitch). Arg!!! - -- Lisa Tyson PS Stitching over linen is like doing a little waltz 1-2-3 1-2-3 needle up down .... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 09:56:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Gwen Carnegi Subject: Re: Karl Kohler's "Schaube" or German Scholar's coat On Fri, 31 May 1996, Sarah Randles wrote: > >On the back, you must add a rectangular piece for the back collar - > >deep enough to go halfway down your back (as per Kohler, Durer etc) > >and wide enough to span the shoulders. This width measurement must > >also equal the total neckscye - cut this deeper at the front if > >necessary. (this is *hard* without drawing pictures!) A later style (1580 to 1590) of coat uses the collar pieces cut in one with the body of the coat. Sort of like this: ____ ____ __|CB|__ __| |CF ) ( ) | / \ / | / \ / | / \ This coat pattern is taken form a tailor's masterpiece book that I'm working on translating (Tailor masterpiece book of Enn's 1599). (It is incredibly slow going). What is so wonderful that we working this style out is that, I looked at it and said "no way". However what you end up with is the same coat as shown in the Trachenbach. There is a plate showing a young woman with her collar folded down and it is that same "sailor collar" that we associate with the Schaube. In another plate we see the same coat with the collar turned up and the added fabric is present at the chin that this collar gives. Remember to add gaurding to this coat. There is no internal structure (like pad-sticking) to support the shape of that collar. Trust me it looks wrong without it. The gaurding actually helps the garment retain it's shape, in fact much like interfacing would. (Could this be the reason we don't see those several layers of interlining common to English Ren. doublets). All we see in German clothing of this time is a single layer of linen used as a interlinning and most of that is just fragments left in the seams (if your lucky). > >This all takes a fair amount of fabric. I cut the back as a half > >circle and the front as two quarters tucked in to each end of the half > >circle, then the sleeves and collar. I think I used about 5m of 150cm > >fabric, but I'm not very tall. My coat extends to the mid calf. If you piece the sides alla' Alcega you can make it out of 4 yards including sleeves if you have napped fabric (I used wool melton which has a definate nap). The collar is 4" high and from the top of the collar to the bottom hem it's 53". The widest portion of the body (the swing) of the coat is 42". The cool part of the cut of this coat is that is it beginning to explain some problem and solutions for the High -necked cranach bodice. But that a separate book and not yet translated out of early modern german (argh!) and I hope also has the pattern the the earlier style coats. If you have any questions, just holler though I'll be off-line from the 5th to the 20th of June Gwyndolynn Anne the Obscure Gwyn Carnegie (another German personna despite the name) ------------------------------ End of H-Costume Digest V4 #130 ******************************* A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, send the command lines: unsubscribe h-costume-digest subscribe h-costume end in the body of a message to majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com. Thanks and enjoy the list!