From: owner-h-costume-digest (H-Costume Digest) To: h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Subject: H-Costume Digest V4 #133 Reply-To: h-costume Sender: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Errors-To: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk H-Costume Digest Thursday, June 6 1996 Volume 4, Number 133 Compilation copyright (C) 1996 Diane Barlow Close and Gretchen Miller Use in whole prohibited. Individual articles are the property of the author. Seek permission from that author before reprinting or quoting elsewhere. Important Addresses: Send submissions to: h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com (or reply to this message). Adds/drops/archives: majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com Real, live person: h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Topics: Address for a free web page Costuming in NYC Cross-Dressing Re: Karl Kohler's "Schaube"---A Success!! Re: Cross-Dressing Re: Cross-Dressing Re: Cross-Dressing TV Cross Dressing Early corsets Costuming in NYC - Exhibits? Re: Renaissance Ribbons Regency Dress neat costume stuff in New Orleans? Thanks to everyone.... Young Man Amongst Roses Re: Costuming in NYC DAR Exhibit Re: Need help with double running stitch (Holbein stitch) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 11:06:44 -0400 (EDT) From: "Penny E. Ladnier" Subject: Address for a free web page Sorry, I forgot to include the address for the free web page. http://www.geocities.com Scroll down to the free web page part. Penny E. Ladnier, Virginia Commonwealth University s0peladn@erols.com Pennies from Heaven, where it's always reigning money,or at least my kids think so. $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$ ------------------------------ Date: 4 Jun 1996 09:48:01 -0800 From: "Carole Newson-Smith" Subject: Costuming in NYC 6/4/96 9:38 AM Costuming in NYC Don't forget to go to the bookstore in the Metropolitan Museum while you're in town. Carole Newson-Smith ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Jun 1996 17:01:54 -0700 From: Veda Crewe Joseph Subject: Cross-Dressing With regard to the discussion here about women dressing as men,=20 particularly during Elizabethan England, my friend Jodi Clark has done=20 some research and found that there was one very well known woman named=20 Marion Frith or =93Moll Cutpurse=94 who was something of a pirate or=20 renegade who went about in men=92s clothing. There is a great period wood= =20 engraving of her dresses in men=92s clothes and holding a sword and=20 smoking a pipe. This picture is in The Roaring Girl by Thomas Diekker=20 and Thomas Middleton. She appears in a period play called =93Amends for=20 Ladies=94 by Nathaniel Field and there is a possible mention in Twelfth=20 Night in Act 1 scene 3 by Sir Toby. Another female cross dresser Jodi came across was called =93Long=20 Meg=94. There were several known pirate women who dressed in men=92s=20 clothes as well. Queen Elizabeth upon one public occasion dressed in men=92s=20 clothing to rally troops during the attempted Spanish invasion. If anyone is interested in further reading, take a look at=20 Crossdressing, Sex & Gender by Bulloch and Bulloch ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 15:50:00 From: Dawn L Vukson-Van Beek Subject: Re: Karl Kohler's "Schaube"---A Success!! On Sun, 2 Jun 1996 12:29:34 -0700, >Dawn Vukson-Van Beek wrote: >Have anyone attempted the construction of the the Schaube in Kohler? I wish to let everyone who graciously asssisted me that the Schaube was completed in time-(1 AM Monday Morning!) and it is beautiful! The coat is royal blue velveteen, lined with gray flannel-backed lining, and topped with a sumptious brown fur. It did take alot of velveteen (9 yards!) but my husband is over 6'4". The sleeves also reach to the hem, and are very full. I had to cartridge pleat them into the cuff, there was so much bulk. My husband says he is the best dressed Burgher in the Known World! I will be making another schaube in the near future, our local bard, Wilhelm is practically naked, and needs clothing suited to him. I hope to try a different sleeve fashion, after I look into more research on this garment. Keeep 'em in stitches! Lucia (modernly known as Dawn) %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely. ...broad, wholesome, charitable views... can not be acquired by vegetating in one's little corner of the earth. Mark Twain, _Innocents Abroad_, 1869 Dona Lucia Porzia Sforza di Firenze, modernly known as Dawn Vukson-Van Beek vukso001@tc.umn.edu http://www.tc.umn.edu/nlhome/g080/vukso001/dawn/home.html %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 18:04:10 -0700 From: gwjchris@ix.netcom.com (Bill and Glenna Christen) Subject: Re: Cross-Dressing You wrote: > >With regard to the discussion here about women dressing as men,=20 Traditional songs and broadside ballads include a number of songs about cross dressing women, "Sovay" as well as the innumerable versions of "The Female Soldier" and "The Female Sailor" songs abound, to name just a few examples. The frequency and survival rate of these songs indicates such behavior was not *that* uncommon. Glenna Jo Christen gwjchris@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 22:55:39 -0400 From: Booboopies@aol.com Subject: Re: Cross-Dressing In a message dated 96-06-04 22:49:09 EDT, gwjchris@ix.netcom.com (Bill and Glenna Christen) writes: >. Ivor Noel Hume, former Archealogist at Colonial Williamsburg Foundation, and author of Martin's Hundred (a fabulous book, by the way), includes in Martin's Hundred several pages on a Thomas Hall who lived in the Virginia area in the 17th century and was hauled into court on several occasions on charges of cross-dressing. Apparently, the man was a hermaphrodite and was able to "pass" for either gender. He got out of the navy by dressing as a woman and worked as a seamstress. His punishment was that he must always dress and live as a woman and never again dress like a man. It was fascinating reading, but then the entire book is like reading a great mystery novel. Karen Mullian ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 20:55:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: Cross-Dressing On Tue, 4 Jun 1996, Bill and Glenna Christen wrote: > >With regard to the discussion here about women dressing as men,=20 > > Traditional songs and broadside ballads include a number of songs about > cross dressing women, "Sovay" as well as the innumerable versions of > "The Female Soldier" and "The Female Sailor" songs abound, to name just > a few examples. The frequency and survival rate of these songs > indicates such behavior was not *that* uncommon. Well, no. The frequency and survival rate of the songs indicates that such behavior was an established folk motif. There are a lot of ballads about ghosts and elfin knights, too. (Not that I'm arguing against the presence of cross-dressing women -- there's good evidence for it, but this isn't it.) Heather Rose Jones ------------------------------ Date: 05 Jun 96 09:34:00 GMT From: Mrs C S Yeldham Subject: TV Just a quick comment, because this is a subject I have avoided (IMHO its too cliched - modern views on freedom and women's roles being projected onto the past). There are two different conditions being discussed. One is a woman *living* as a man for a substantial part of her life (or vice versa), in which case the whole point is the deception, so noone would know about it until the crisis of exposure (so how would you show it in a reenactment?). I understood most of the evidence, biographies, ballards etc about women living as men were 18th and 19th century. All the verified cases I've read about definitely were. Social and religious (at least related to England) conditions had changed profoundly by then, as had concepts of privacy. The other condition is a woman not denying her sex, but living and dressing in mens clothes, maybe for limited periods. This is what I strongly suspect was extremely rare, and would have been very strongly disapproved of. At the very least the local community would have used charivari in protest. The Moll Cutpurse case (and it was the play about her by Middleton I saw with Helen Mirren) was remarked because it was so unusual. I have never read of Elizabeth dressing as a man, even during the Armarda crisis. She did wear doublet style bodices, but all the pictures show skirts underneath. The whole point about the "I have the body of a weak a feeble woman but I have the heart of a king" speech would have been undermined by dressing as a man. Drawstrings Someone asked about dating these. I understand they were used on men's braes from at least the 15th century, but don't move outwards to smocks/shifts until the 17th century. I gather to a band and put ribbons on the edges to tie together. Caroline ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 09:40:47 -0400 From: BarbMVD@aol.com Subject: Cross Dressing In the book compiling the Circle of the Rose newsletters, there is an item that appeared in the Inverness Journal of 17 July 1812. "Died lately in the Parish of Knocklando, County of Elgin, an eccentric character known as Red Jean, or Jean Roy. She disliked her own sex, and always pretended to be a man, wearing a kilt, jacket and blue bonnet. She generally worked as a day laborer. Barbara M. Delorey BarbMVD@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 14:15:40 -0400 (EDT) From: aleed Subject: Early corsets OK. I have been searching high and low for the origin of the elizabethan corset, along with material evidence, and the pickings are slim. All I've been able to find are the pair of bodies and the corset in Janet Arnold's book, the corset on the effigy of Queen Elizabeth, and very late 17th century corsets. Does /anyone/ know of extant corsets from before 1550, excluding the ones I've mentioned? Even small pieces of them? I'd be very grateful for any scrap. Drea - ------------------------------- We've secretly replaced their dilithium crystals with new folgers crystals. Now let's watch them go to warp. - ------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 15:21:28 -0400 From: mhamilto@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Marsha Hamilton) Subject: Costuming in NYC - Exhibits? I'll be in New York City July 4-9th. Does anyone know what costume exhibits are up at MOMA, the Museum of the City of New York, .....elsewhere? Thanks. Marsha ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 07:08:39 -0700 From: Edith Minne Subject: Re: Renaissance Ribbons Hello, We would like to introduce our company to this group: We are Renaissance Ribbons and we import exquisite ribbons & trims from France- woven jacquard-tapestry-embroidery type of ribbons-real metallic trims-cotton & rayon gros grain.... . We have recently created a web page at http:// www.rribbons.com and we would like you to go and visit and send us any comments you may have. We are doing mostly wholesale but we have started retail as well -just because it is so hard to find for the individual who loves quality products-. Looking forward to hear from you RenaissanceRibbons/Edith Minne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 12:32:10 -0400 From: MacWynner@aol.com Subject: Regency Dress Hello! I have volunteered to field questions on fashion for the Jane Austen List FAQ section. I found your address from the: USENET Frequently Asked Questions with answers from news.answers. ... the FAQ list for rec.crafts.textiles.misc. Is there one (or more) particular book/magazine/list/source that you could recommend that would enable me to answer the typical questions asked, i.e., what type of corsets were really worn, how did they wash their clothes, what materials/ colors/patterns were used (and did a particular color/pattern have certain significance),etc. >From what I really do not know, is that the "Regency" dress period covers Jane Austen's lifespan (1775-1817). Thank you for your time and attention to my request. I remain Sincerely yours, Miss Wynn Howard ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 13:24:18 -0700 From: mark_hutchinson@mindlink.bc.ca (mark hutchinson) Subject: neat costume stuff in New Orleans? Just wondered if anyone has any recommendations for historical costume related stuff in New Orleans. We will be visiting soon. Any special museums, stores, etc. that a costume person might like to visit? Thanks Marian ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 17:27:41 -0400 From: SyRilla@aol.com Subject: Thanks to everyone.... My friends, Earlier this year I had ask your help in set costuming rules and guidelines for our local Ren. faire. I am happy to say that with all of the suggestions and directions given to me, a small guide book was completed. Most of the cast went along with the rules and gave no fuss about them. For the first time I even had 2 men wear codpieces, YEA!!, and nobility women in corsets. We had many comments on the improvement of the costumes and the quality. Special thanks to Chris and to Liz. With heartfelt appreciation, Kimberly SyRilla ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 19:36:38 -0400 From: Gileshill@aol.com Subject: Young Man Amongst Roses I am researching the Clothing of ‘Young Man Amongst Roses’ by Nicholas Hilliard, and will be grateful if anyone can add to the information below. I am especially interested in your evaluations of the '...elongated grey shadows, which may be slashing, embroidery, or some stupid conceit of the artist...' I've been glaring at this image for weeks, and _I_ just can't decide what I'm seeing there. ______________________________ Roy Strong, in The Cult of Elizabeth, concludes -after a lengthy discussion of his reasoning- that the subject of this miniature was Walter Devereaux, 2nd Earl of Essex. “Leslie Hotson noted that, with the exception of the golden-brown shadow hatching on the white peascod doublet, the Young Man wears only two colours, the personal ones of Elizabeth I, black and white: black cloak, white ruff, cuffs, legs, and shoes, black and white doublet and trunkhose.” The Earl wears a doublet of white strapwork, edged with what appears to be black gimp with the occasional glint of gold (possibly beading). The exposed portions of each strap have an elongated grey shadow, which may be slashing, embroidery, or some stupid conceit of the artist, to encourage the eye to see layering in the straps. The straps are woven in a ‘two under, two over” pattern, set at a 45° angle. The doublet is (apparently) closed with gold hemispherical buttons, set with black stones. The buttons are set closely together, almost -but not quite- touching. The doublet is peascoded, with what appears to be a black belt set with god jewels lying upon a flat peplum. The paned trunkhose ride high on the thighs, barely concealing the pudenda. The straps are white, with black lattice decoration, apparently constructed of the same gimp as appears on the straps of the doublet. (The same flecks of gold are also evident.) The ruff is of plain white lawn, radiating perhaps four or five inches from the neck, and is unedged. There may be a supportasse beneath it, to account for the extreme tilt of the ruff, or this may be another optical illusion indulged by Hilliard to provide a better setting for the face. The shirt cuffs, shown turned back over the doublet sleeve, appear to be of the same plain lawn, and have no lace or embroidery visible. The black fingertip cape, worn over the left shoulder, is innocent of surface decoration, although we may see from the revers and the hem that hangs almost to the knees that it is lined with fur. The white shoes are similar to those worn by Charles, Lord Howard of Effingham, but no tie is visible... there is instead a tongue, and a strap that crosses it on the instep. There is no hat or sword; the Earl may be said to be naked and defenseless against his love. - -Paul Giles, 1996 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 20:38:16 -0400 From: Carol Bier Subject: Re: Costuming in NYC The bookstore for FIT (Fashion Institute of Technology), on 28th street is also excellent. Carol Bier Curator, The Textile Museum Washington, D.C. 20008 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 00:37:09 -0400 From: aquazoo@dcez.com (Ed Safford & Carol Kocian) Subject: DAR Exhibit The DAR just opened an exhibit entitled _American Women, American Fashion_. 18thC pieces are a polonaise gown and the ubiquitous red cloak. 19thC pieces make up the bulk of the show; several are Civil War era. There are two early 20thC dresses, as well. The show includes accessories, fashion plates, and some personal histories of American women. According to the brochure, "_American Women, American Fashion_ examines how women of the late 18th through early 20th centuries obtained fashion information, and then adapted it to their particular economic and social circumstances." The show runs through September 9, 1996. Hours are 8:30 am to 4:00 pm, Monday through Friday, and 1:00 pm to 5:00 pm Sunday. Admission is free. The DAR museum is located at 1776 D Street, NW, Washington, DC. For more information, call (202) 879-3241. I helped to set up the exhibit as a volunteer for a couple of days. For people interested in seeing museum collections in detail, volunteering is a good way to do this. Many museums are shorthanded, and the extra help is welcome. There are frequently tasks that only require office skills. This may not be feasable in collections far from home. Remember, though, that you are taking up a curator's time when viewing items in the "back room", so it's nice to give back some of that time. -Carol Kocian aquazoo@dcez.com *^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^* This account is shared by Carol Kocian and Ed Safford. Carol can also be e-mailed at ckocian@epe.org Ed can be reached at ecsaffor@ingr.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 06:56:45 -0500 From: mschulte@post.its.mcw.edu Subject: Re: Need help with double running stitch (Holbein stitch) Lisa- I have done these cuffs. You can do them in double-running/reversible/Holbein stitch and get them to "hold" for real wear. (Although the lady to whom I gave these washes the shirt by hand.) I used linen and button-hole silk thread - the Corticelli kind one can rarely find. My replacement for this is the Japanese silk machine thread. (I also used handerkerchief linen, I think; this was 9 years ago!) Leaving a long tag for each thread, I "locked" the stitch by doubling back on the same thread. End each of these at different places, though. Otherwise, when you weave them through the design they will bulk up. I suppose if you felt really bad about it, you could use a touch of fabric glue, although I think this may eventually yellow. As far as hemming the end of the cuff versus piping it: I would hem it. Although the back side will then have the hem, and thus the piece not be truly reversible. If you want, I have also done a handkerchief that has a way of kind-of covering over the hem. Note! The steps and cross motif seen on one of the Holbien paintings of J. Seymour does not appear to have this type of edging. (You also do realize that on the six "Holbein" portraits of J. Seymour, there are different sleeves, with at least two different embroideries on the cuffs.) Anyhow, this method is from a 16/17th c. Italian small cover pictured on page 18 of the book: _Three Hundred Years of Embroidery 1600-1900:Treasures from the Collection of the Embroiderers' Guild of Great Britian_ by Paula Johnstone. Published by Wakefield Press, Austrailia, 1986. ISBN: 0 949268 81 X Anyhow, this cover is reversible, done in red silk on fine linen. I quote, "The ends are finely hemmed, and all four edges, hem or selvedge, are finished with a small pattern of groups of buttonhole stitch." These groups appear to be six stitches of different staggering lengths, i.e. the first two are short, the next two long, the final two short, equal in length to the first two. The shortest just covers the the hem line. The groups have spaces in between them. These spaces appear to be equal in width to the width of the group. This makes sense, as I think these groups were "counted" in the manner of the entire piece. I hope this helps. Good luck! The cuffs are truly beautiful when finished. Marie ------------------------------ End of H-Costume Digest V4 #133 ******************************* A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, send the command lines: unsubscribe h-costume-digest subscribe h-costume end in the body of a message to majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com. Thanks and enjoy the list!