From: owner-h-costume-digest (H-Costume Digest) To: h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Subject: H-Costume Digest V4 #134 Reply-To: h-costume Sender: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Errors-To: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk H-Costume Digest Monday, June 10 1996 Volume 4, Number 134 Compilation copyright (C) 1996 Diane Barlow Close and Gretchen M Beck Use in whole prohibited. Individual articles are the property of the author. Seek permission from that author before reprinting or quoting elsewhere. Important Addresses: Send submissions to: h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com (or reply to this message). Adds/drops/archives: majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com Real, live person: h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Topics: Medieval Hats (c1300) Re: Medieval Hats (c1300) re: Help with double running stitch... re: cross dressing delurk alert New Corset Web Page Re: Blackwork Boston New Corset Web Page Re: Drawers Unsubscribe reminder... tawdry lace Re: Boston Re: tawdry lace Re: Early corsets 1870's gown Jackson,Mississippi tawdry lace Costume Museums in Paris, Prague, and Vienna ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 9:29:27 -0500 (CDT) From: Marc Carlson Subject: Medieval Hats (c1300) I am looking for information on medieval hats, specifically men's hats, 1300, England or France. The sources I have at hand are pretty thin regarding information on that topic. Norris has a few pictures, but since I can't trace his backtrail in this case, I'm a little leary. The basic choices seem to be the Hood, the Coif, and some sort of little sailor-cap looking affair. It's really the third choice I'm wanting to research, but at this point leads are a bit shy. I would be willing to hit the archives here, but my instructions on how to go about it appear to have fallen into some void. Any hints or clues would be appreciated at this point. Marc Carlson IMC@VAX2.UTULSA.EDU ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 13:07:04 -0400 From: MDSDMB@aol.com Subject: Re: Medieval Hats (c1300) Try Boucher, 20,000 Years of Fashion. Look closely at the bibliographical stuff noted with the pictures and go from there. Also try Mary K Houston, Medieval Costume in England & France, 1979 (reprint) Adams & Charles Black Pub. A little late, but possibly of some use is Stella Mary Newton, Fashion In The Age Of The Black Prince, 1980, Boydell Press. Most of these will probably be Interlibrary Loan (that miracle of miracles). Good Luck ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 9:20:36 -0500 (CDT) From: Marc Carlson Subject: re: Help with double running stitch... I'm sorry if this duplicates any of the other responses in this thread. In leatherwork, the double running stitch is made by running a piece of thread with a needle at both ends through the leather at the same time (more or less), through the same hole. This allows for a greater control of the tension of each stitch, and, if you use the same pattern for which needle actually goes through the hole first, you can get a more consistant pattern of stitch shape. This is also known as a "saddle stitch". Another benefit to this particular type of stitching is that you can (either at every stich, or every so often) lock the stitches into place, by slipping the needles through the loops that are created as you pull the thread "tight", creating a half hitch knot *inside* the holes. When you finish a bit of thread, start the next piece a few holes back so that there is the same effect of "backstitching" through the same holes to hold the thread in place, and then "backstitch" at the very end of the piece. I'm told by people who work with fabric that there's some arcane reason that I'm just not meant to understand ( :) ) for why this can't be done this way using fabric and thread or floss, therefore can't be used to make Holbein stitches. If this is not particularly useful, again, My apologies. Marc Carlson IMC@VAX2.UTULSA.EDU ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Jun 96 15:49:49 CDT From: bednarek@tidalwave.med.ge.com (Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971 ~BHOSVWZ#097) Subject: re: cross dressing Doesn't cross dressing go both ways? I seem to recall a case where some historical US figuer dressed as a woman to alow him to move about freely when the British had a bounty on his head. Story is vague but I'm sure some history buffs here can shead more light on this story. Dennis ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 23:47:01 -0400 From: Jafath@aol.com Subject: delurk alert Hello! It was a wonderful idea to put the archives for this list on a web page. I've been beguiling my odd moments by reading them ALL.(Being a compulsive reader means never having nothing to do ...) I've added to my impressive collection of useless facts, and also to my "try to find at the library" list. I'm enjoying it a lot, and not least because this is such a literate group! I mean, gosh, here's people who even know the difference between "discreet" and "discrete." Of course, this list also seems to have the highest ratio I've seen yet of librarians to "other professions" and (speaking as someone who is one-third of one myself) I suspect there's a direct correlation. I have a query to post, but I'll do that separately. Delurking bio first. Yes, I've been sewing, knitting, and embroidering most of my life (since I was 8 or 9, anyway), and yes, I made clothes and hats for my dolls rather than playing with them. On the other hand, I learned to sew only from financial necessity, and continued it after I learned to enjoy it because (a) sewing machines improved; (b) styles improved (I shudder to recall the underarm placket zipper in a dress I made when I was 13) and (c) I found out it was the only way to get the styles I liked in a form that FIT. As for dolls, my real love was paper dolls: my favorite had a whole shoebox full of fantastic clothes designed by me. My best friend and I each had a doll from a Katy Keene or Patsy Walker comic book, carefully pasted on cardboard: then we used sheets and sheets of typing paper drawing them clothes. Sometimes we even played with the dolls, but mostly we dreamed up clothes. Time has gone by while I've done other things, but recently I joined SCA and, having made three or four vaguely medieval outfits (both to get the feel of the thing and so I'll have something to wear at Pennsic) and trying out a number of ideas on my daughters' long-abandoned Crissy dolls (takes a lot less fabric to fit a sideless surcoat on Crissy than it does on me!) I am ready to do some research and make a seriously-1396 outfit. I'm trying to decide whether or not that means a houppelande. Guess I'll have to make one for Crissy and see how we like it. I work for a magazine -- layout and proofreading and such -- when I'm not reading, knitting, or looking at pictures in costume books. And I'm one-third of a librarian because (unless university funding gets so snarled up they discontinue the program) I have eight more courses to take to my MLS. It takes some of us a while to get to where we started out to go; in my case, about thirty years. Pleased to meet you all. Jo Anne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 22:46:53 -0700 From: Joan Broneske Subject: New Corset Web Page Well Everybody, I've been secretly working on a Victorian Corset How-To = page and it is finally up. Please let me know what you all think. It = is at: http://www.calweb.com/~unicorn/corset.htm Joan Broneske ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 08:41:39 -0400 From: Ngelina@aol.com Subject: Re: Blackwork >If anyone could please describe to me any thing about backwork and how it is done, I would be grateful. Since no else appears to have answered this request, you can have my two groats worth: Modern blackwork is a counted-thread technique using geometic patterns repeats to fill shapes of an embroidery design. Sixteenth century blackwork, (and its predecessor, Spanishwork, if you make the distinction) was executed both in counted-thread and surface stitch forms. The period version uses many more vegetive shapes (lots of vines, flowers and leaves) and much simpler filling stitches, although examples of purely geometric bands also exist. The stitches used varied, from a simple running stitch up to a really complicated braid stitch I'd have to get Mistress Louise of Woodsholme to explain to you (care to put her in front of the computer, Giles?), but it seems to me you could go a long ways just with backstitch or double-running stitch, satin stitch and outline stitch. A very good blackwork book with lots of reference to period style is _Blackwork Embroidery_ by Elisabeth Geddes and Moyra McNeill. My copy was printed by Dover in '76--it may still be in print and it probably will be reasonably priced. Thomasina Beck's books (_The Embroiderer's Garden_, _The Embroiderer's Flowers_ and _The Embroiderer's Story_) are also full of beautiful reproductions of period stuff. Please don't consider this discussion to be anything approaching exhaustive... Karen/Angelina ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 12:39:10 -0400 From: DELTAYLOR@aol.com Subject: Boston I would like to ask if there are any must see costume displays (or any at all) in the Boston area in June. Are there any good costume book sources I should try to visit? Thank you for any information. Dianne in TN ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 10:06:55 -0700 From: Joan Broneske Subject: New Corset Web Page Thanks to everyone who told me about my screwed up Home links. I have = gone in and fixed them and tested them and everything is now working. If anyone has a corset page, costume page, page with pictures of their = costumes, etc. and would like a link on my page, just let me know and I = will put you up. Thanks again, Joan Broneske ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 12:43:05 -0500 (CDT) From: Ashley and Victoria Gilliam Subject: Re: Drawers I know that this was a while ago (I'm really backed up on reading), but I wanted to suggest something I use for that 'thigh rubbing heat rash'...Balmex (which is supposed to be a diaper rash cream). I apply in the morning & don't have to reapply during the day. Yours, In Service to the Dream, Ellsbeth Lachlanina MacLabhruinn mka Vycke' (Victoria) Gilliam gilliam@ccsi.com *********************************************************************** Future Knight & Laurel...Now I need armor, training, a topic.... Any errors in spelling, tact, or fact are transmission errors. *********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 13:20:52 -0700 (PDT) From: close (Diane Barlow Close) Subject: Unsubscribe reminder... Phaedra M. Williams wrote: > Sorry to take up the space, folks. Stupid me, I was rearranging some of > my files and lost the instructions on how to stop my mail for a while. Excellent time for me to post the semi-regular "how to unsubscribe" reminder file! (There's no vacation postpone function, unfortunately.) To unsubscribe from the list, send a message to: majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com In that message, say one of the following as the body of the message: unsubscribe h-costume end (if you are signed up to the direct mail version) or unsubscribe h-costume-digest end (if you are signed up to the digest version.) - -- Diane Close I'm at lunch all day. :-) If a Canadian Had Said It First (The Globe & Mail): "Cry havoc, and let loose the dogs of a peacekeeping mission!" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 23:55:31 -0400 From: Jafath@aol.com Subject: tawdry lace Here, as promised, is my question for the assembled multitude: Saint Audrey/Etheldreda/Aethelthryth, born about 630, daughter of the king of Mercia, married the king of Northumbria. She got tired of (a) being married and (b) being a queen, so she instead became abbess of a convent in Ely, about 673. (Her husband didn't like the idea, and she had to get the backing of the local bishop, St. Wilfrid.) She died 679, of a tumor in her throat, which she had disguised with "a silk necklace" (_torquem quendam_, for you Latinists) and which she explained was her punishment for being fond of jewelry in her youth. Ely promptly named their trade fair in her honor, at which the souvenir of choice was "Saint Audrey's Lace", described as "formed of thin and fine silk, perchance in her memory." Tourism, craftsmanship, and economics being much the same then as now, this popular item eventually gave the language the word "tawdry." (If anyone knows more about her, or has conflicting information, please e-mail!) Question: would this really have been silk, either originally or by 1530, which is when OED traces "tawdry" to? Would it really have been lace? If so, what technique and shape do you suppose? (Possibly relevant, for fellow Americans who, it is well known, are geographically deprived -- Ely is northeast of London, near Cambridge.) sources for the above include Aelfric's_ Lives of Saints_ and Harpsfield's _Historia Anglicana Ecclesiastica_.(Harpsfield died in 1588, don't know about Aelfric but I'm sure he was much earlier) Any takers? Jo Anne ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 10:43:59 -0400 From: MDSDMB@aol.com Subject: Re: Boston The Boston Museum of Fine Arts has a needlework show up that has several costume pieces in it. Refer to the June issue of The Magazine Antiques for particulars. Enjoy, MDSDMB ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 08:18:22 -0700 From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: Re: tawdry lace At 11:55 PM 6/7/96 -0400, Jo Anne wrote: Here, as promised, is my question for the assembled multitude: >.... Ely promptly named their trade fair in her honor, at >which the souvenir of choice was "Saint Audrey's Lace", described as "formed >of thin and fine silk, perchance in her memory." [snip] > >Question: would this really have been silk, either originally or by 1530, >which is when OED traces "tawdry" to? Would it really have been lace? If so, >what technique and shape do you suppose? Yes, it could have been silk. Silk was imported from China into the late Roman Empire and its successors. But the word "lace" has two distinct meanings today, and in 1588. One is the 'fabric', as in 'bone lace' or 'reticella'; the other is (apparently) the older one meaning some sort of cord, e.g., shoe lace or corset lace. I would think that the 'necklace' referred to in the earlier reference is probably some sort of cord. In fact, one of the problems faced in 'translating' 16th century descriptions of costume is figuring out which meaning of 'lace' is meant; sometimes it is obvious from context, but not always. Hope this helps, Joan Jurancich joanj@quiknet.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 08:30:04 -0700 From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: Re: Early corsets At 02:15 PM 6/5/96 -0400, Drea wrote: >OK. I have been searching high and low for the origin of the elizabethan >corset, along with material evidence, and the pickings are slim. All I've >been able to find are the pair of bodies and the corset in Janet Arnold's >book, the corset on the effigy of Queen Elizabeth, and very late 17th >century corsets. Does /anyone/ know of extant corsets from before 1550, >excluding the ones I've mentioned? Even small pieces of them? I'd be >very grateful for any scrap. > >Drea I have not seen any references to actual surviving 'corsets', or to use the 16th century term, 'a pair of bodies'. One problem is the language; 'a pair of bodies' could be used to describe the 'bodies' of a gown or something worn under a gown, either of which could be 'stiffened'. Other than the remains you list, as far as I know, our only references are pictures and text descriptions. Wish it were otherwise. Shalom, Joan Jurancich joanj@quiknet.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 15:28:42 -0500 (CDT) From: The Espresso Pegasus! Subject: 1870's gown Greetings! I have returned from an absolutely fabulous trip to France and London (yay) and I saw many scraps of byzantine and Roman tunics.. And come Clerical garmants.. and I now have more books and I can possibly imagine (1/2 a suitcase worth) with many pictures...So if anyone is interested, please e-mail me privatly, and i will scan in, or fax some of my notes, and some of the pictures. But wait, there's more! ;) While in London, I was visiting a relative, Sir Godfrey Style, and his wife Lady Valerie. Upon metion that I made costumes, Valerie perked up and said I have a dress that one of Queen Vicoria's Daughters wore.. And after recovering myself, She offered to show it to me... and it was absolutely gorgeous!... it was a Silk Satin with a lovely flower pattern stitched upon it, with Peplams (? little side bustle things) and front closure, boned, 21" waist, a inset of gathered chiffon to form a 'v' in the front, and I believe it had a round neckline, and it had meticulously pleated ruffle. and a train. Lady Valerie had worn this dress for her wedding... and she had a ballet dancer model it for her a few years back, and she gave me a picture, which I will scan in and put up on the WEB, if anyone is interested. She was also wishing to sell it because it saddened her that the dress was just sitting in her closet... so if you would be interested, of know anyone who may be, please contact me privatly, and i'll discuss it in more depth. if anyone is interested, in the textile pictures, or the dress picture, please let me know. Thanks! Sarahj ______________________.oO*Oo._______________________ You Can Fret Me, But You Cannot Play Upon Me--Hamlet ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 13:48:26 -0600 From: reaves@tuvok.marian.edu (Anne Reaves) Subject: Jackson,Mississippi Monday July 2nd I'll be in Jackon to see that wonderful Russian exhibit. Are there any good textile collections in Jackson open on Mondays? Thanks for the information. Anne Reaves ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 13:58:21 -0600 From: reaves@tuvok.marian.edu (Anne Reaves) Subject: tawdry lace Yes, that St. Audrey story is an old one but survives in a much later form. In the 16th c lace had three meanings: ties, bobbin lace, and needlelace. (Recicella is only one type of needlelace.) The ties could be twisted (often used today for tassels and drawstrings), or fingerwoven. Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlocked has pictures of some pages of a 16th c sample book of the fingerwoven, which the V & A staff are hoping to publish someday. Some of the designs closely resemble Japanese Kumi Humi work, but the Elizabethans used a designated number of people for each design, rather than one person with a stand and bobbins like Kumi Humi. There's too little information about Anglo-Saxon textiles to know which types of ties they might have made. Even narrow woven tapes might have been considered ties back then. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 96 15:58:43 PDT From: DGC3%Rates%FAR@go50.comp.pge.com Subject: Costume Museums in Paris, Prague, and Vienna Several members on this list will be in Paris, Prague, and Vienna in July. Do readers of this list have any special recommendations for these cities? The two museums attached to the Louvre, the Musee des Arts Decoratif and the Musee de la Mode et du Costume, are closed for renovation through the end of 1996, according to their web site (sigh). From other postings, I have gleaned recommendations for the historic rooms in the Louvre, the Cluny Museum, and the Museum of Decorative Arts in Prague. I'd love to hear from others on the list about their favorite haunts in these three cities. Museums, bookstores, fabric stores, flea markets, lace museums, ribbons, jewelry, living history sites -- you kindred spirits understand! ----Danine - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Danine Cozzens Internet: dgc3@pge.com Phone: 415/973-1388 Pacific Gas and Electric Company San Francisco, CA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ End of H-Costume Digest V4 #134 ******************************* A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, send the command lines: unsubscribe h-costume-digest subscribe h-costume end in the body of a message to majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com. Thanks and enjoy the list!