From: owner-h-costume-digest (H-Costume Digest) To: h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Subject: H-Costume Digest V4 #135 Reply-To: h-costume Sender: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Errors-To: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk H-Costume Digest Thursday, June 13 1996 Volume 4, Number 135 Compilation copyright (C) 1996 Diane Barlow Close and Gretchen M Beck Use in whole prohibited. Individual articles are the property of the author. Seek permission from that author before reprinting or quoting elsewhere. Important Addresses: Send submissions to: h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com (or reply to this message). Adds/drops/archives: majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com Real, live person: h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Topics: 18 th century civilian patterns RE: tawdry lace Re: 18 th century civilian patterns RE: Costume Museums in Paris, Prague, and Vienna Re: Costume Museums in Paris, Prague, and Vienna Re: Costume Museums in Paris, Prague, and Vienna tawdry lace. lace. Europe Coventry Re: 18 th century civilian patterns Re: Regency Dress (fwd) Re: 18 th century civilian patterns Finnish Costume Minneapolis costume rental crochet time frame? Finland Re: Finland Re: Finnish Costume ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 20:21:42 -0400 From: DPyron1049@aol.com Subject: 18 th century civilian patterns Hello list: My family and I are Revolutionary War reenactors and need to find a pattern source for authentic late 18th Century civilian clothes. Can anyone point us to a source other than the run of the mill patterns; specifically, tradesmens, militia and farmer attire? I am also looking for any info on Merchant marine clothing of the same period. Thanks in advance for your help. Lt. Doug Pyron Rehoboth Minueman Co. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jun 96 02:07:54 UT From: "Susan Carter" Subject: RE: tawdry lace The pictures in QEWU are of hand written directions for braids used for purse strings, points, and yes, probably tawdry 'laces'. The problem has long been that the directions are more or less encoded, if you don't know how to do the braids, they don't make sense. The good news is that a wonderful student of braiding, Noemi Speiser, has decoded the crazy things. They're done with loops on the fingers (called finger=loop braiding) and if you're interested they're included in her Manual of Braiding. Watch out, they're habit forming. Su sucarter@msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 08:55:13 -0400 From: MDSDMB@aol.com Subject: Re: 18 th century civilian patterns Take a look at PUT ON THY BEAUTIFUL GARMENTS, Meridith Wright & Nancy Rexford, 1990, available from The Clothes Press POB 686, Montpelier VT 05601-0686 and RURAL PENNSYLVANIA CLOTHING , Ellen Gehret, 1976, Liberty Cap Books (try Interlibrary Loan). Hope this helps, Mary Denise Smith ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jun 96 09:15:52 PDT From: CHES@mail.io.com Subject: RE: Costume Museums in Paris, Prague, and Vienna On Mon, 10 Jun 96 15:58:43 PDT DGC3%Rates%FAR@go50.comp.pge.com wrote: >Several members on this list will be in Paris, Prague, and Vienna in July. Do >readers of this list have any special recommendations for these cities? > ..o0*0o.. It has been too long for me to remember all the museums but I do remember two things. 1)BUY A BUS PASS ASAP!!! It is worth it! 2)Austin, Texas has more art museums than Paris. Soooooo.... make sure you make friends with one of the people at the Louvre, they can point you to the "private" museums in the city. Ciao @}\ Ches @}----`--,-- http://www.io.com/~ches/siren.html @}/ Date: 06/11/96 Time: 09:15:52 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 08:20:59 -0800 From: "R.L. Shep" Subject: Re: Costume Museums in Paris, Prague, and Vienna CHES@mail.io.com wrote: > > On Mon, 10 Jun 96 15:58:43 PDT > DGC3%Rates%FAR@go50.comp.pge.com wrote: > >Several members on this list will be in Paris, Prague, and > Vienna in July. Do > >readers of this list have any special recommendations for > these cities? > > > ..o0*0o.. > > It has been too long for me to remember all the museums but I > do remember two things. 1)BUY A BUS PASS ASAP!!! It is worth > it! 2)Austin, Texas has more art museums than Paris. > Soooooo.... make sure you make friends with one of the people > at the Louvre, they can point you to the "private" museums in > the city. > > Ciao @}\ > Ches @}----`--,-- http://www.io.com/~ches/siren.html > @}/ > > Date: 06/11/96 > Time: 09:15:52 I don't know about a BUS pass (I use the Metro - it is faster when my time in the city is limited).... but one of the things I do in Paris is buy a Museum Pass. They come in different sizes (i.e. for different amounts of days). It saves on museum fees, and it means you don't have to stand in line to get into the crowded ones. Paris is great for art and from paintings one finds costume. There are always many museum guides available at hotels or tourist information bureaus. The only 2 museums devoted to costume/fashion are the ones you say will be closed, but that does not mean you can't get a lot of information from art museums. (the food is good too!) R.L. Shep ------------------------------ Date: 11 Jun 96 9:18:00 From: Stacey Weinberger at WADSWORTH Subject: Re: Costume Museums in Paris, Prague, and Vienna New Text Item: Costume Museums in Paris, Prague, and Vienna In Vienna the must sees are the Kunsthistorisches Museum, the Kaisergruft at the Franziskaner Kirche, the Hofburg, Schoenbrunn, and Belvedere (Museum of the 19th and 20th Centuries) if possible. There is a wonderful little cafe off on a side street near the Schottenkirche (if that's the correct name--it's been so long!) called Bretzelgewoelb. It is several stories down below ground level, is very quaint and old artsy. Wonderful Gluehwein and Strudel! And of course the Beethovenhaus just off the Ring. Stacey ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 09:05:38 +1 From: Jon Bagguley Subject: tawdry lace. Both bobbin (bone) lace and needle lace seem to have developed as we know them in the late 15th - early 16th so your tawdry lace wouldn't have been lace as we know it unless it was a 16th century tradition possibly developing from something earlyer. However as several people have mentioned lace also means cord and sometimes thin braids and ribbons so it could have been this. If Saint Audrey covered a tumor with it I would guess what she wore was some sort of scarf but that doesn't have to bare any resemblace to what they sold at the fair. These things can get very muddled very fast. As to the use of silk, yes no problem. It was a common fibre for cords as it is very strong and imported into this country. Interestingly the selling of silk and silk cords seems to have been a female profession. Esther Reeves (using my partners account) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 09:08:22 +1 From: Jon Bagguley Subject: lace. The posting on Tawdry lace has remined me of a question I've been meaning to ask. Has anyone ever heard of Coventry Blue Lace, I found a short letter in a back issue of Lace, the magazine of The Lace Guild which mentions it and states that this lace was a pastime of the Queen, she seems to mean Elixabeth the first. I plan to try to contact this lady and doing some local research but I though I'd see if anyone else has ever heard of it. This combines two of my main area of study, early lace and Coventry's local history. I know a bit about Coventry Blue which is a colour that Coventry was famous for. It could be either woven fabric or thread so I assume that this lace is made with the thread but other than that I have never come across it before.. Also if anyone's interested Coventry do some great little booklets on local history two that might interest people are As True as Coventry Blue which is about the textile industry in Coventry and Ten Tudor Families which is a set of wills from the said families including inventories. They often include clothes especally when the will maker is female. I realise most of you live in the wrong countyto get these easyly but if you are interested email me and I'll tell you more. Esther Reeves (using my partners account) ------------------------------ Date: 12 Jun 96 09:40:00 GMT From: Mrs C S Yeldham Subject: Europe I don't know any specific living history sites around Prague, but I know there are several happening - one at Gdansk Castle I think, this year. The White Company are doing a living history event at a castle near Gdansk next August (dates to be confirmed). I understand from friends who work in Eastern Europe that living history is becoming important over there to attract tourists - they have more surviving interesting buildings than western Europe! There will be an event at Le Puy in July, but I don't have the dates, by the Company of St George. I'm over in France with the White Company at the end of August/early September for a big event at Crecy and Dinan, the White Company and other groups are celebrating (!) the 100 Years War. The place I've always wanted to visit in Vienna is the Kunsthistoriche (sp?). Ever noticed how many 16th century pictures they seem to hold? One of the Holbein Jane Seymours is there. They also have a collection of wonderful Klimt pictures Hope this helps Caroline ------------------------------ Date: 12 Jun 96 09:39:00 GMT From: Mrs C S Yeldham Subject: Coventry I would be very interested in the Tudor inventories from Coventry, if you could kindly post details. Caroline (Anything on food?) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 09:26:40 -0400 From: Kevin Richard-Morrow Subject: Re: 18 th century civilian patterns > >At 08:21 PM 6/10/96 -0400, you wrote: >>Hello list: My family and I are Revolutionary War reenactors and need to find >>a pattern source for authentic late 18th Century civilian clothes. Can anyone >>point us to a source other than the run of the mill patterns; specifically, >>tradesmens, militia and farmer attire? I am also looking for any info on >>Merchant marine clothing of the same period. Thanks in advance for your help. >> >>Lt. Doug Pyron >>Rehoboth Minueman Co. >> >> While you said you aren't interested in "run of the mill" patterns let me suggest the Janice Ryan patterns that are available from a variety of sources. We have had good luck with the mens waistcoat and frockcoat patterns. Goodwife has used the stays pattern from Mill Creek Farm with success. If you send a SASE to: Brigade of the American Revolution Pattern Master Richard Ponsini 56 West Warren St. Washington, NJ 07882 you'll get a list of Brigade approved patterns. Patterns are for sale to Brigade members and non-members alike. The most knowledgable seller of 18th century clothing, civilian or otherwise, is Tidy's Store House. You can reach Ken Tidy on Email at: tidys@mail.del.net Are you aware of the RevWar Email list? Kevin Richard-Morrow ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 14:32:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Gretchen M Beck Subject: Re: Regency Dress (fwd) Note, this message is forwarded. Please reply to mdsdmb@aol.com Beyond a doubt, the best book in MY library for that period is A LADY OF FASHION, Barbara Johnson's Album of Styles & Fabrics, published by Thames & Hudson. Good Luck ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 17:40:11 -0400 From: Booboopies@aol.com Subject: Re: 18 th century civilian patterns I would like to recommend The Recollections of J.P. Ryan, 302 East Main Street, Berryville, VA, 22611. Janice Ryan's patterns are very well researched and relatively easy to use. And most important: The pattern pieces actually fit together, unlike some of the other commercial patterns available. Another source is Carolina Stitches in Time. These patterns are also meticulously researched. The shirts and shifts are particularly easy to make. The owner has recently sold the business to T. Bagge, the general mercantile in Old Salem. As soon as I have all the pertinent information, I will post the address to the entire line. One more source is Kannik's Korner, P.O. Box 1654, Springfield, OH, 45501. The Kanniks have a wide variety of men's, women's, and children's clothes, primarily focusing on the last quarter of the 18th century. Again, good research goes into these patterns. Hope this helps, Karen Mullian ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 19:02:29 -0500 From: milieux@digital.net (Lauren Podolak) Subject: Finnish Costume I recently received this inquiry in my email, and thought she could better be helped by the readers of this mailing list: I have been surfing the internet for information about Finland, and costumes worn in that country, and during festivals. I am looking for information of outfits for men in Finland. My husband, his brother and a friend of ours (who is the Finnish connection here!) are playing during FinnFest 96 here in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan in August. Being the procrastinator that I am, I wanted to get started ASAP. I was wondering if there is any set costume/outfit? I was looking for pictures, and you'd think working in a University Library I would have some luck - but I failed miserably for the right information!! Anyway, I did see a picture of a torch lighting within a family (forgot the name!), and there was a man that had on black breeches, white heavy socks, black shoes, white shirt and a black vest. Is that pretty close to what would be worn? Also, I had read that lots of ribbons were used. Is this only for women? Would it be offensive to make a vest with ribbons?? If possible, in other words, I need help - BIG TIME!! I would appreciate any help or advice you could offer. My name is Sue Depoorter and I work at the Michigan State University Library in East Lansing Michigan. You can e-mail me back at 20676smw@msu.edu if you have any info. _____ .__.__ .__ / \ |__| | |__| ____ __ _____ ___ / \ / \| | | | |/ __ \| | \ \/ / / Y \ | |_| \ ___/| | /> < \____|____/__|____/__|\____> ____//__/\__\ Science Fiction, Fantasy & Historical Fashions milieux@digital.net http://ddi.digital.net/~milieux THE COSTUME SITE http://ddi.digital.net/~milieux/costume.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 18:16:05 -0700 (PDT) From: -All- Subject: Minneapolis costume rental Does anyone know of an Elizabethan costume rental source in Minneapolis, Minnasota? The event will take place in October, and the majority of people will be coming from out of town. Thanks, Carol Boettger ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 21:54:39 -0700 From: kari@cdsnet.net (Roland & Kora Kari) Subject: crochet time frame? hello all, I need information on when crochet lace was documented. Someone told me that the first piece was documented around 1665? I thought it was developed much earlier around 1500's. I need as much information or other sources in order to clairify this debate. regards Kora ------------------------------ Date: 13 Jun 96 09:19:00 GMT From: Mrs C S Yeldham Subject: Finland I only have a little knowledge on Finland, at second hand. However, I will try. First, you don't specify the dates you are interested in, tho from your description it sounds like 17th century. A second problem is, I understand, that 'Finland' as a political entity is a modern construct (post 2nd World War?). Through most of the area's history it has been ruled by other countries, often Denmark, sometimes Sweden. If you are talking about the 17th century I think Sweden ruled that area, in that Sweden under Gustavus Adolphus and Queen Christina dominated most of the north. Of course, you are talking about the 30 Years War and its aftereffects, which left substantial parts of Germany devastated (Brecht's Mother Courage takes place during the 30 Years War). Good Luck Caroline ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 12:09:19 +2 From: "Ella Lynoure Rajamaki" Subject: Re: Finland On 13 Jun 96 at 9:19, Mrs C S Yeldham wrote: The description of the costume shown in the torch picture sounded like a Finnish folk costume, which dates back to 19th century (which was a combination of garbs worn by Finnish people in earlier time. It was created to boost the national ego and unity.) > A second problem is, I understand, that 'Finland' as a > political entity is a modern construct (post 2nd World War?). Finland has been republic since 1914, before that it was an autonomous area under the rule of Russia (with its own senate etc.). And before that is was ruled by Sweden (The Kingdom of Sweden and Finland). But, on the other hand, Finns have had their own culture, religion (which was destroyed by the crusades) legends and traditions from ancient times. For more information about Finnish culture, check out http://www.hut.fi/~rvilmi/Project/Culture there are lots of links to various aspects of Finnish culture and traditions. Or, of course, http://www.vn.fi/vn/um/puvut.html for a Finnish National Costume page. :) Lynoure (yet another Net-Finn) > Good Luck > > Caroline > > Ella Lynoure Rajamaeki lynoure@clinet.fi - ---------------------------------------------------------------- a small chaotic multi-era creature. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 20:51:21 -0600 From: "Cindy Cormack" Subject: Re: Finnish Costume > Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 19:02:29 -0500 > To: h-costume@andrew.cmu.edu > From: milieux@digital.net (Lauren Podolak) > Subject: Finnish Costume > I recently received this inquiry in my email, and thought she could better > be helped by the readers of this mailing list: > > > I have been surfing the internet for information about Finland, and costumes > worn in that country, and during festivals. > > I am looking for information of outfits for men in Finland. My husband, his > brother and a friend of ours (who is the Finnish connection here!) are playing > during FinnFest 96 here in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan in August. Being > the procrastinator that I am, I wanted to get started ASAP. > > I was wondering if there is any set costume/outfit? I was looking for > pictures, and you'd think working in a University Library I would have some > luck - but I failed miserably for the right information!! Anyway, I did see a > picture of a torch lighting within a family (forgot the name!), and there was > a man that had on black breeches, white heavy socks, black shoes, white shirt > and a black vest. Is that pretty close to what would be worn? > > Also, I had read that lots of ribbons were used. Is this only for women? > Would it be offensive to make a vest with ribbons?? > > If possible, in other words, I need help - BIG TIME!! I would appreciate any > help or advice you could offer. > > My name is Sue Depoorter and I work at the Michigan State University Library > in East Lansing Michigan. You can e-mail me back at 20676smw@msu.edu if you > have any info. > > _____ .__.__ .__ > / \ |__| | |__| ____ __ _____ ___ > / \ / \| | | | |/ __ \| | \ \/ / > / Y \ | |_| \ ___/| | /> < > \____|____/__|____/__|\____> ____//__/\__\ > Science Fiction, Fantasy & Historical Fashions > milieux@digital.net > http://ddi.digital.net/~milieux > THE COSTUME SITE > http://ddi.digital.net/~milieux/costume.html > > > Old World Wisconsin has many books on Costumes form other countries. I would be willing to bet the farm (pun intended) that I saw a Finnish book, complete with great pictures, last time I was there--around October. If you don't want to make the trip, You might find the phone number from the Wisconsin Travel Bureau. Good Luck! Cindy Cormack ------------------------------ End of H-Costume Digest V4 #135 ******************************* A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, send the command lines: unsubscribe h-costume-digest subscribe h-costume end in the body of a message to majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com. Thanks and enjoy the list!