From: owner-h-costume-digest (H-Costume Digest) To: h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Subject: H-Costume Digest V4 #137 Reply-To: h-costume Sender: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Errors-To: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk H-Costume Digest Tuesday, June 18 1996 Volume 4, Number 137 Compilation copyright (C) 1996 Diane Barlow Close and Gretchen M Beck Use in whole prohibited. Individual articles are the property of the author. Seek permission from that author before reprinting or quoting elsewhere. Important Addresses: Send submissions to: h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com (or reply to this message). Adds/drops/archives: majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com Real, live person: h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Topics: Re: Mary Tudor's Wardrobe Accounts re: Re: Zigzag collar stays, 3" Re: London Costume Book Store Re: London Costume Book Store Color Question tawdry lace RE: tawdry lace Padded Armor Address: RD Franks, London Color Question Jane Eyre? Request for Costuming Articles! Costume College 1996 RE: Request for Costuming Articles! spangles re: spangles ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 13:53:21 EST From: "laura yungblut" Subject: Re: Mary Tudor's Wardrobe Accounts > While I'm at it, does anyone know what the fabrics scarlet and > sarcanet looked like, and what the nearest modern equivalents would > be? > Thanks, > Drea I'm not sure off the top of my head but check Erik Kerridge's _Textile Manufactures in Early Modern England_ (Manchester University Press, 1985). If it was a fabric made in early modern England, it's in there. Laura Yungblut yungblut@checkov.hm.udayton.edu ******************************************** Domina Misericordia non domi erit hac nocte. ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jun 96 11:39:43 MDT From: mgriggs@shepards.com Subject: re: Re: Zigzag collar stays, 3" Katy Bishop Wrote: | I usually make my own collar stays out of milliners wire, making an oval | loop at the top, bending the wire in a serpentine shape to the length | needed for the collar, and then making another oval at the bottom. I have | taken the proportions from an original turn of the Century collar stay. | Fine milliner's wire is very easy to bend, flexes with the neck in | wearing and is more comfortable than featherboning. I would be happy to | send a xerox of the stay to show the proportions. | | -Katy I'm going to be experimenting with collar stays to duplicate the partlet neckline shown in some of the early Elizabethan/Late Tudor portraits where the standing collar is bowed out. Unfortunately, I can't recall exactly where I say this used and all my references are at home just now. Would this method of forming collar stays work? This isn't a great representation of the front of the bowed partlet, but I hope it gives you the idea I'm looking for. \ / \ / \ / | | | I can't exactly tell if the partlet is reinforced with extra fabric, heavy starch or collar stays. I'm assuming a combination of starch and collar stays as the fabrics seem to be silks and other light and fancy fabrics. Any comments, opinions, corrections, etc., would be greatly appreciated. Lyssa - ----------------------------------------------- Lady Leofsige O Caoimh Dragonsspine, Outlands mgriggs@shepards.com lyssa@kktv.com http://www.usa.net/~norseman/dragon.html - ----------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 16:46:27 -0400 (EDT) From: "Penny E. Ladnier" Subject: Re: London Costume Book Store >Penny, would you happen to recall what neighborhood Frank's was in, or get an >address for them? > >Giles I'll respond to the list the app. location of Frank's. The London College of Fashion (part of The London Institute) is located: 20 John Princes Street London Telephone: 0171 514 7400 Frank's is two blocks from the LCF. The people at the front desk of the LCF can tell you what the street address is. I had a bag from the store but no longer have it. I am sorry, I do not know enough about London to know the neighborhood. I did look up John Princes Street up on a map and could not find it. Penny E. Ladnier, Virginia Commonwealth University s0peladn@erols.com Http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/2157 Pennies from Heaven, where it's always reigning money,or at least my kids think so. $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 19:17:16 -0400 From: lukelep@neca.com Subject: Re: London Costume Book Store >The London College of Fashion (part of The London Institute) is located: >20 John Princes Street >London >Telephone: 0171 514 7400 > >I am sorry, I do not know enough about London to know the neighborhood. I >did look up John Princes Street up on a map and could not find it. Hi Folks! John Prince's St is off of Oxford street and quite next Regent St. The Oxford Circus tube stop is less than a block down. I hope this is a help. L.P. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 22:27:21 -0400 (EDT) From: "Penny E. Ladnier" Subject: Color Question I am still researching color names which are now going into a database. I ran across what I think maybe a color, but am unsure. It is used in "Paris Fashions of the 1890's" as VANDYKE BROWN. Does anyone know if this is a color name or an article of clothing which is brown? Question 2: What color is BISCUIT-COLORED that was used during the same time frame. If anyone has used any part of my color list, please let me know. This is going to be a vital part of my research, how people actually used this information. Thank you to all the people who have previously responded. The Elizabethan Periods can be found on Dred Leed's web page, http: www.dnaco.net/~aleed/corsets/lizcolor.html Penny E. Ladnier, Virginia Commonwealth University s0peladn@erols.com Http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/2157 Pennies from Heaven, where it's always reigning money,or at least my kids think so. $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 00:12:47 -0400 From: Jafath@aol.com Subject: tawdry lace Thanks for the responses about St. Audrey's lace. I knew _I_ didn't know much about 7thC lace, I guess it's reassuring (in a way) that no one else really knows much, either! Summarized: Yes, it could well have been silk. No, it probably wasn't lace in the "work with holes" sense. I can deal with both of those. So, if it's lace in the "cord such as is threaded _through_ holes" sense, two questions: How would this hide a disfigurement? (I was visualizing something along the lines of a Queen Alexandra choker!) What technique would be likely for a 7thC abbess? I've heard of a fingerweaving method where the size of the cord depends on how many fingers you have -- can anyone direct me to instructions? (I'm _real_ good at learning from books!) I also know the fingerweaving method that the kids use to make "friendship bracelets" from embroidery floss. I don't suppose that one is period at all. (since I already know it ...) Jo Anne ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jun 96 00:58:33 UT From: "Susan Carter" Subject: RE: tawdry lace Jo Anne asked: > I've heard of a fingerweaving method where the size of the cord depends on how >many fingers you have -- can anyone direct me to instructions? I've unpacked the book that has the directions for the braiding (plaiting) in the V & A books. These books are dated at about 1600 as far as I know but these same things show up with much earlier dates and in many cultures so there's no reason they weren't in use in the 7th cent. Of course the story could be a serious distortion or the nature of the thing called tawdry lace could have changed over the years. We'll probably never know. The book is The Manual of Braiding by Noemi Speiser. Mine is the 3rd edition of 1991. I don't know if the earlier editions also have these directions. There was also an article with directions in the Weaver's Journal in 1985 (sorry, I don't know what month right off hand). As far as covering a tumor one in particular, called 'the arme breadth' is made by two or more people working together and produces what looks like a tape except that the interlacing is oblique, not right angled as in a woven tape. This braid can be made tubular or in a single layer depending on the techniques used and so could be rather wide, more or less like a ribbon, and very flexible due to the oblique structure. It can even have rather intricate color patterns worked into it, including letters if you're crazy enough. As to friendship bracelets, some kids are doing these finger loop braids. Last year I had two kids from Hawaii taking notes so they could duplicate some of my braids and I know the Swedish technique (called Slentre), working with the fingers pointing down, shows up in some friendship bracelet books. Anyway, this is long enough and probably more than most of you wanted to know. If anyone wants more info or advise on getting their fingers untangled, feel free to contact me privately. Su - ----------------------------------------------------------- Su Carter Weaver (508) 746-1622 ext.214 Plimoth Plantation sucarter@msn.com Box 1620 Plymouth, MA 02362 - ----------------------------------------------------------- "There is no problem which does not become increasingly complex when actively investigated, growing in scope and depth, endlessly opening up new vistas of work to be done." - Fernand Braudel - ----------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jun 1996 12:47:59 -0400 From: USSTIERGAR@aol.com Subject: Padded Armor I am currently looking for a costume pattern for 14th century padded armor (or close to it. I am a bit of a dolt when it comes to making my own patterns, so one that is pretty much ready to cut and sew would fit the bill. If anyone out there can help, help! Thank you ahead of time. Douglas Carey ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jun 1996 10:50:23 -0800 From: fsbks@mcn.org (Fred Struthers) Subject: Address: RD Franks, London Greetings We supply RL Shep publications to RD Franks in London. Their address: RD Franks Kent House Market Place Oxford Circus London W1N 8EJ Fred Struthers Bookseller ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 12:31:30 -0500 (CDT) From: "SHERYL J. NANCE" Subject: Color Question >I am still researching color names which are now going into a database. I >ran across what I think maybe a color, but am unsure. It is used in "Paris >Fashions of the 1890's" as VANDYKE BROWN. Does anyone know if this is a >color name or an article of clothing which is brown? I don't know about any historical reference, but VAN DYKE BROWN is a common color used in modern oil painting. Sheryl J. Nance ...one of the secret masters of Kansas City MO Public Library the world: a librarian. They p_sheryl@kcpl.lib.mo.us control information. Don't ever p**s one off. - Spider Robinson, _The Callahan Touch_ (Opinions expressed in this message do not reflect the viewpoint of the Kansas City MO Public Library.) End of returned message ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 10:37:08 -0700 From: Subject: Jane Eyre? Whatever happened to the Jane Eyre movie? There seemed to be a big hype about it, then it vanished. How were the costumes? Is it worth renting when it comes out on video? (I think I've rented "Age of Innocence" so often, just to watch the costumes, I'm wearing the stores tape out.). ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 11:21:55 -0700 From: willow@recreating-history.com (The Polsons) Subject: Request for Costuming Articles! Hi everyone. It seems lately I've just been filing these lists away unread due to time constraints, but I'll be better, I promise! 8-} I wanted to let you folks know that after receiving tons of requests for Recreating History's writer's guidelines, and me subsequently posting them to the list, I have received... no queries (as far as I know). What happened to your enthusiasm? 8-0 I really do need an article on natural dye plants, and now I find that I need another costume article written - "Pregnancy Versus the Corset: Maternity Wear in Elizabethan and Victorian Times" Anyone interested in submitting either of these articles should contact me as soon as possible! And just in case I didn't make this clear before, I do PAY real money for articles! So please do let me know right away if you're a writer who's interested in contributing to Recreating History magazine. Thanks!! 8-) ********************************************** Willow Polson....willow@recreating-history.com Recreating History magazine ..."Historic Crafts, Cooking, and Clothing"... - ----> http://www.recreating-history.com <----- ********************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 20:24:01 -0400 From: BRUCE BRIANT Subject: Costume College 1996 There are still some memberships available for Costume College 1996! Our focus this year is on the era of the pannier (Georgian), but we are also offering classes on "Mardi Gras Costuming", large-scale prop building, basic beading techniques and many, many more! Costume College 1996 (sponsored by the Costumer's Guild West) will be July 19-21, at the Airtel Plaza Hotel in Van Nuys, CA. Rates are $40 for members of the International Costumer's Guild, $60 non-members. Rates for the Time Travelers Gala (a separate costumed dinner dance) are $30 ICG members, $40 non-ICG members. Costumer's Guild West mailing address is P.O. Box 94538, Pasadena, CA 91109. Contact Bruce Briant, (818) 797-0983 for any other information. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jun 96 00:57:49 PDT From: CHES@mail.io.com Subject: RE: Request for Costuming Articles! On Mon, 17 Jun 1996 11:21:55 -0700 The Polsons wrote: >Hi everyone. It seems lately I've just been filing these lists away >unread due to time constraints, but I'll be better, I promise! 8-} > >I wanted to let you folks know that after receiving tons of requests for >Recreating History's writer's guidelines, and me subsequently posting >them to the list, I have received... no queries (as far as I know). ..o0*0o.. On that note I would like to finish gathering information on infant costumes so that I can finish an article I have been working on for several months now. (Sorry Stefan, I will finish it soon!) What you have done and what did and did not work? Cold weather, hot weather, foot ware, hand ware, fabrics, head gear, trims. How often did you have to make new clothing or add to the existing clothing? Commercial patterns, home made ones, other. Bibs, smocks for catching food, clothing specifically for play vs. fancy, specialty decorations. If you want it for the magazine I will send it to you all as well. Ciao @}\ Ches @}----`--,-- http://www.io.com/~ches/siren.html @}/ Date: 06/18/96 Time: 00:57:49 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 13:19:40 +1 From: Jon Bagguley Subject: spangles Does anyone know where I can get something resembling the spangles used on Elizabethan outfits. You see them on cuffs, ruffs, feathers and as decorations on bodices etc. They are small oval flat metal droppers like small oval sequins pierced at one end so they hang. They are normally in gold though I would also be interested in silver. I live in England so a source over here would be ideal but I would happily pay postage from anywhere to get some as it is for my wedding. Esther Reeves ( on my partner's account, the silver ones are for him !) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jun 96 08:46:15 MDT From: mgriggs@shepards.com Subject: re: spangles Jon Bagguley Wrote: | | Does anyone know where I can get something resembling the spangles used | on Elizabethan outfits. You see them on cuffs, ruffs, feathers and as | decorations on bodices etc. They are small oval flat metal droppers like small | oval sequins pierced at one end so they hang. They are normally in gold | though I would also be interested in silver. | I live in England so a source over here would be ideal but I would | happily pay postage from anywhere to get some as it is for my wedding. | | Esther Reeves ( on my partner's account, the silver ones are for him !) | If you know of anyone who stamps coins or does metal work in your area, you might see about commissioning them. I located a coin maker in Arizona to do them for me in pewter. They may be a bit heavier than needed, but I won't be able to experiment with them until the package arrives. Stamping them out of a sheet of light weight metal apparently isn't too difficult and you can be choosy about the size, color, and final weight of the droppers. I have seen various items used to simulate the metal droppers, but unfortunately most are very light weight tin/aluminum and don't hang properly. You might check leather supply stores. Those that market to American Indian or old west recreators might have something you could use, although my guess is they will tend toward the conche style pieces. Good Luck, Lyssa - ----------------------------------------------- Lady Leofsige O Caoimh Dragonsspine, Outlands mgriggs@shepards.com lyssa@kktv.com http://www.usa.net/~norseman/dragon.html - ----------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of H-Costume Digest V4 #137 ******************************* A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, send the command lines: unsubscribe h-costume-digest subscribe h-costume end in the body of a message to majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com. Thanks and enjoy the list!