From: owner-h-costume-digest (H-Costume Digest) To: h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Subject: H-Costume Digest V4 #140 Reply-To: h-costume Sender: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Errors-To: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk H-Costume Digest Friday, June 21 1996 Volume 4, Number 140 Compilation copyright (C) 1996 Diane Barlow Close and Gretchen M Beck Use in whole prohibited. Individual articles are the property of the author. Seek permission from that author before reprinting or quoting elsewhere. Important Addresses: Send submissions to: h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com (or reply to this message). Adds/drops/archives: majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com Real, live person: h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Topics: Magical shoes Re: H-Costume Digest V4 #138 Cauls Re: Codpiece Int'l h-costume must move! Cauls (Was Hair Cages) Re:"Naked" RE: hair cages Re: h-costume must move! Re: h-costume must move! Someplace to put h-costume? Re: H-Costume Digest V4 #139 Re: h-costume must move! Re: Codpieces FW: Re: Anothe list Re: Cauls (Was Hair Cages) re: notes in boxes ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 12:00:27 -0700 From: Frances Grimble Subject: Magical shoes Has anyone read June Swann's article "Shoes Concealed in Buildings" in the latest issue of the British Costume Society journal _Costume_? It discusses the practice of concealing shoes in buildings to ward off evil, although Swann has been unable to get precise details on exactly what is warded off and how. She has mostly talked to modern informants. She has recorded over 1,100 concealed shoes from Britain, North America, Australia, and several European countries. The dates of the shoes range from the 14th century into the early 20th. They are found in both rural areas and towns, in a wide variety of buildings. The most popular place for concealment is the chimney, fireplace, or hearth, but many are also found between floors or walls, or in other places. The concealments are sometimes associated with the original building process and sometimes with alterations. Other objects concealed for the same purpose include items of dress, especially headwear; items associated with fire; and bottles. Some are associated with bones, and Swann thinks the practice may be linked to the ancient one of burying people or animals in foundations. I was particularly interested to read about the bottles. My parents own a large Victorian farmhouse, built around 1860, about 25 miles southwest of Pittsburgh. At some point the large wood-burning fireplace had been partly bricked up to form a smaller fireplace suitable for coal. (Western Pennsylvania was a coal-mining region till fairly recently.) When my parents bought the house they took out the extra bricks to re-enlarge the fireplace. They found that two bottles had been bricked in. The only reason they could think of was that the workmen had been drinking on the job and wanted to conceal the evidence (though I do not remember that these were definitely liquor bottles). But now I wonder whether this was a concealment of the type Swann discusses; surely there were other ways to dispose of (or reuse) bottles? Has anyone on this list found shoes or other objects concealed for magical reasons? Fran Grimble ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 07:16:18 -0400 From: ErrickII@aol.com Subject: Re: H-Costume Digest V4 #138 Fair thee well and thak you for the time and effort. Best regards. Errick von Falkenburg (MKA) Dennis David Errickll@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 11:01:58 -0400 From: MerryLass@aol.com Subject: Cauls I neglected to add that I'm on someone else's account right now... E-mail responses to my posting on cauls should be sent to: Miranda584@aol.com Do forgive the intrusion...... Cheers! Miranda ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 14:59:58 GMT From: dickie@bozzie.demon.co.uk (Paul C. Dickie) Subject: Re: Codpiece Int'l In message <9606192253.AA09031@ucs.orst.edu> kondoa@UCS.ORST.EDU writes: > > ... I'm curious as to what men really kept in their codpieces, Mousetraps, as a preventative measure? o-) > if they used them as pockets (once they reached the decorative, padded > period, not the early flat flaps). I had heard stories that it was "cool" > in Elizabethan times, for a man to reach into his codpiece, pull out > an orange or a sweet & offer it to his lady friend. Is this true, or > is it another one of those "costume legends"?. "Pray tell me, good sir, is that one of those new grape fruit in thy codpiece, or art thou really pleased to see me?" I think it's just a legend... Paul C. Dickie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jun 96 09:39:58 PDT From: ke6isf@outlander.ni.net (Dennis Allen Carr) Subject: h-costume must move! close@lunch.engr.sgi.com (Diane Barlow Close) writes: > The time has come for me to say farewell to all of you on this mailing > list. It is with sadness mixed with joy that I announce we (my husband > and I) are leaving Silicon Graphics and must close or move our mailing > lists by June 28, 1996. > OK, along those lines, here's a suggestion - what say we set this group up as a newsgroup? - --- Dennis Allen Carr KE6ISF outlander!ke6isf@ccss.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 10:55:51 -0400 From: MerryLass@aol.com Subject: Cauls (Was Hair Cages) Jfath @aol.com writes: >>A little while ago someone mentioned hair "cages" for medieval hairdressing.<< The cages are called cauls, and they could be made of a multituide of other materials aside from metal, although the majority of the extant pieces are metal... I'm assuming that's because the other materials deteriorated over time... I've heard of rigid cauls being made of gold, silver, tortise shell, mother of pearl and fine woods, often jewelled or enamelled. You could make them yourself out of any of these materials if you have jewelers' skills and tools... Myself, I found a plastic, faux tortise shell caul at Marks and Spencer in London when I was last home... They're actually kind of popular right now, and chain costume jewelry shops here in the US (Claires, Afterthoughts) carry gold or silver toned wire versions as well as some faux-pearl over elastic fillets. Fillets, sometimes called soft cauls, can be crocheted from doily patterns... I suggest a very fine silk or cotton and a tiny crochet hook, small enough to go through the hole in whatever beads you want to decorate the fillet with. Then you can just crochet the beads into the fillet, instead of going back and sewing beads on the finished doily before you run your drawstring around the edge. Oh, and the rigid type were held in place with a stick, which can also be jewelled on one end... Fillets stay put by pulling the drawstring tight. Cheers! Miranda ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 16:59:13 -0400 From: Booboopies@aol.com Subject: Re:"Naked" In a message dated 96-06-19 10:40:34 EDT, you write: >Of course, the meaning (literal and social) of 'naked' has changed. Some >references to a man being naked clearly mean he is unarmed, but fully >dressed. There were also occasions when men would be literally naked in >public (eg bathing) and if a woman was around she would not see - but this >went on until the Victorian period. > > In the 18th century if a man or woman were "naked," it generally meant he or she was wearing only a shirt or shift. Hence, the "naked" soldiers in George Washington's army were actually clothed, but to 18th century eyes and minds, the men had no clothes to their names. Karen Mullian P.S. I'll miss the H-Costume List. Hope somebody is able to take it over. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 16:26:50 -0500 (CDT) From: Deb Subject: RE: hair cages I think I'm getting confused (maybe because the list is confused, but maybe it's just me). Some of these hair cages seem to be intended to wear on the head. At one point (but perhaps not this conversation) there was discussion about cages to keep on one's dresser, to store hair pulled out of the hairbrush. You later made a pillow, or good luck charm, or something, out of the saved-up hair. Can we clarify which (or both?) we are discussing here? I thought the first suggestion (metal or crocheted) was for the "saved-up hair" idea, but I may be wrong, given that the last replies have been about "wear-on-the-head" devices! Deb baddorf@fnal.gov ------------------------------ Date: 20 Jun 96 14:09:00 From: Stacey Weinberger at WADSWORTH Subject: Re: h-costume must move! New Text Item: h-costume must move! ke6isf@outlander.ni.net (Dennis Allen Carr) wrote: > OK, along those lines, here's a suggestion - what say we set this > group up as a newsgroup? Speaking as someone who actively uses newsgroups, it will leave us wide open to trolls and spams and nasty flame wars. I've enjoyed the "quiet elegance" of this list. It has been a nice "civilized " respite from what goes out on the Internet. However if that is the absolute only way we can continue, I'd vote yes. Stacey ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 14:38:29 -0700 (PDT) From: close (Diane Barlow Close) Subject: Re: h-costume must move! StaceyWeinbergeratWADSWORTH wrote: > ke6isf@outlander.ni.net (Dennis Allen Carr) wrote: > > OK, along those lines, here's a suggestion - what say we set this > > group up as a newsgroup? > > Speaking as someone who actively uses newsgroups, it will leave us > wide open to trolls and spams and nasty flame wars. I've enjoyed the > "quiet elegance" of this list. It has been a nice "civilized " respite I'm still waiting to hear back from several people on machine availability. A couple people volunteered to take the list, but are having problems getting their machines up and/or working, so I'm still actively looking for a good host/solution. Anyone who can offer space (with listserv or majordomo) or can host the whole show, please write me asap! Gretchen Beck is still willing and able to run the list on a day to day basis, as she's doing now -- we just need somewhere to put it! :-) - -- Diane Close I'm at lunch all day. :-) If a Canadian Had Said It First (The Globe & Mail Challenge): "I have not yet begun to negotiate!" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 18:15:08 +2510 From: "David M. Mitchell" Subject: Someplace to put h-costume? I'm all in favor of staying email-oriented, but if as a newsgroup is the only way we can survive, so be it. However--Penny Ladnier wrote about www.geocities.com as offering free web sites--maybe there's some way we can take advantage of a site? Maybe for the archives? I don't know anything about how web sites are set up or how the memory involved works or even how far the geocities offer extends...but hey, just a hopeful thought. :-) Cheryl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 17:10:15 -0700 From: iteach@slip.net (Elizabeth Pruyn) Subject: Re: H-Costume Digest V4 #139 >There used to be a bead shop on Princes Street (I think) in London that >had the real metal spangles; I bought them there once. The ones I got >were round with the hole in the center, but they were perfect. As I recall, >the name of the store was "The Bead Shop" but I'm not positive about >that. They sell all kinds of beads, pearls, etc. I think you are refering to Ells & Ferrier (which also goes by the names of Creative Bead Craft Ltd. and The BEad House). Their shop address is: 20 Princes Street Hanover Square London W1 The office/mail order address is: Denmark Works, Sheepcote Dell Road, Beamond End, Near Amersham, Buckinghamshire, HP7 0rx England They have 8 sizes of flat spangles in their catalog. I don't want to give prices as my catalog is from 1991. I have ordered trim and beads from them and everything went well. Hope this helps. Yours, ELizabeth Elizabeth Pruyn iteach@slip.net Oakland, CA "If I had been around when Rubens was painting, I would have been revered as a fabulous model. Kate Moss? Well, she would have been the paint brush..." - Dawn French ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 20:10:09 -0700 From: sexton@mail.wsu.edu (Althea Sexton) Subject: Re: h-costume must move! Diane, I tried to send a message to you last nite, but it bounced. I'm still wanting to hear back from the admin here. I'll let you know as soon as I hear anything. Althea L. Sexton (aka) Althea L. Sexton - ALTHEA_SEXTON@WSU.EDU http://www.physplt.wsu.edu/info.html (WordSmith's WebBook) http://www.physplt.wsu.edu/craft.html (Craftivity) Earth First! We'll log the other planets later. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 23:24:29 -0400 (EDT) From: "Penny E. Ladnier" Subject: Re: Codpieces I hope I don't get flamed for saying this, remember that I am paraphrasing my Costume History Instructor: Henry VIII was well known for the codpieces he wore. He was also known to have kept bon-bons in his codpieces. When flirting with the ladies, he would give them a bon-bon from his codpiece. What is the earliest date found on usage of the codpiece? My textbook dates it in the early 1400's. Penny E. Ladnier, Virginia Commonwealth University s0peladn@erols.com Http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/2157 Pennies from Heaven, where it's always reigning money,or at least my kids think so. $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 96 22:38:52 PDT From: ches@io.com Subject: FW: Re: Anothe list On Thu, 20 Jun 96 22:26:26 PDT ches@io.com wrote: Diane, This is the note I got back from my server on getting a list set up. Has anyone else voluteered to do it? Is this what is needed? Get back to me. > > On Thu, 20 Jun 1996 18:09:13 -0500 (CDT) Noah Lee - User Admin wrote: On Wed, 19 Jun 1996 CHES@mail.io.com wrote: > I am part of a list that is about to go down and would like to know >if the following things are possible: > > Can I have another list? > Another list would require you to setup a data services account. With that you get multiple email lists, 50 meg of disk storage space and 1 gig of outgoing traffic a month. This has a one time $50 setup fee and $35/month. If you want this setup just send email to: accting@io.com. > > An Archive? > You can have your current mailing list archived if its running in digest mode. The archives of the list can be found at: ~ftp/pub/mailing-lists/listname. If you need just an archive that the mailing list can access through email let me know and I can set it up. > > An FTP site for the archive off my web page? > This could just be a link to the above directory... .................................................... :Noah Lee - User Administrator - Illuminati Online: .................................................... :juggler@io.com :: http://www.io.com/~juggler: :Majordomo-Owner :: DJ & Texas Raves Owner : :"The Mac Guy" :: Support Free Speech : :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ..o0*0o.. Ciao @}\ Ches @}----`--,-- http://www.io.com/~ches/siren.html @}/ Date: 06/20/96 Time: 22:38:52 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 00:43:30 -0400 From: Jafath@aol.com Subject: Re: Cauls (Was Hair Cages) Cauls. Thank you. (I always feel the problem is half solved once you've defined all the words). We are speaking here of gadgets that go on the head, usually for 14th C costume.. I think the other ones are "hair tidies." I'm a terrible crocheter.. Otherwise that's probably the best idea. Maybe lace knitting ... (now, _that's_ something I can do respectably well.) The metal baskets that I saw (probably not all there are) were rectangular. But seems to me that at least half of those I saw in effigies, etc, were, too. I think the cylindrical ones are the most elegant, but have yet to see anything that looks likely. As for the various things sold by Claires, et al -- I have quite a lot of hair, and have had a terrible time finding "containers" big enough to put it up in, just for the office! So I have quite a collection, and none look likely to stay on the sides of my head for more than a few minutes (less if I move!) Maybe the backs could be laced, somehow? Back to the drawing board. Thanks, all. Jo Anne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Feb 96 16:44:16 MST From: mgriggs@shepards.com Subject: re: notes in boxes Julie Cheetham