From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 4 18:25:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA25820 for ; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 18:25:39 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA02251; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 16:33:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA02105 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 16:32:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from mx.serv.net (mx.serv.net [205.153.153.234]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA02079 for ; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 16:32:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from gia-g (dialup743.serv.net [207.207.65.107]) by mx.serv.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA16908 for ; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 15:32:13 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <003701be383a$f0671a60$6b41cfcf@gia-g> From: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" To: "Costume List" Subject: Fw: H-COST: SCA Costuming Rules? Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 15:35:36 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" Something went wrong and this didn't post to the list..Please forgive the repeat.. -----Original Message----- From: Gia Gavino-Gattshall To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sunday, January 03, 1999 9:16 AM Subject: Re: H-COST: SCA Costuming Rules? >Greetings! > >Sarah, you responded with some wonderful ideas! But as far as I know there >aren't any *Rules for Costuming in the SCA*. All I know about is >the general info of "reasonable attempt". > >The best place to get information is to contact the local Costumer's Guild >(SCA). They usually have a 'library' or at the very least a list of >reliable resources to help the costumer get a look and feel of what's period >or not. > >There's also Penny's web Page, if the costumer is not inclined to contact >strangers. A wonderful web site!! I have used it frequently. And she has a >wonderful section on colors. > >http://www.costumegallery.com/research.htm > >http://members.aol.com/nebula5/costume.html > >http://www.metmuseum.org/ > >http://www.lacma.org/lacma.htm > >http://mistral.culture.fr/louvre/louvrea.htm > >http://www.lib.washington.edu/Art/internet.html > > >The Costume Page and the Museums that have pictures online are also great. > >But if you can, do ask someone. If you've seen someone that has impressive >garb, talk to him/her about his/her resources, etc. > >Good luck! > >OASN: This is *seriously* OT (sorry listers! SCA specific is a no-no!), so >if you have questions re: resources, you can email privately to those you >see have SCA affiliations in their emails. > >Gia/Giacinta > >>1)Boris Valejo, and DragonLance Series Book covers, and D+D handbooks, are >>not good places for ideas.. or even to look. groovey for fantasy, but >>should never be considered in even a half-attempt at period costuming. >> >>2)Dispell all ideas from Disney, and (most) film, and most low budget >>theatre. (not to slander those who work on these projects..you work very >>hard. but the objectives are often different) >> >>3)If it is shiney, glittery, without being at least glass, or real >>metalics you most likely will look fake. (unless great care to >>individualize is taken) >> >>4)Lame' is evil. >> >>5)Commercial trims available at Chain stores are 'iffy' at best. Try >>Religious supply houses, and ethnic shops (such as Those found in Little >>India, and import export stores) >> >>6)Body Type should not be an excuse to alter pattern styles. ex. I have >>seen sideless surcotes worn with Rennaisance Chemises(and nothing else), >>becausee they felt 'bloated' and didn't want to wear the fitted dress that >>went with it. >> >>7)There is no excuse for not doing your research. (even if you flip >>through an art history book, look at the date on the painting, and say "I >>want that" is a good start) >> >>8)Cheap materials make cheap costumes. (Cheap as in chinzy... God knows >>theres some fabulously created costumes out of inexpensive materials) >> >>9)Torn trim, ripped fabric/garb is not appropriate. Nor is using your >>persona to excuse bad costuming allowed. (Oh I just came back from a >>battle/ Oh I'm too poor to sew dowm my trim) >> >>10)handiwork is second only to cleanliness on that way to godliness. It >>is _amazing_ what little details will do for a costume. It can propel >>T-Tunic... into T-Terrific. (am I sounding peppy now? :-) >> >>11)pictures, pictures, pictures. no- guesswork. It is a good idea to >>show the 'newbie' the obvious differences between primary medivael source, >>and 18th centurey re-drawing of primary medieveal source (Ex, Violette Le >>Duc) >> >>12) just becasue it is your first piece of 'garb' does not mean that it >>should be a half attempt. The SCA is full of generous individuals, who >>have all types of costume closets open for eager beginners. use them >>first to see if you like the group. THEN, save your pennies, for the good >>stuff. >> >>13)If nothing else, Learn the period silouettes. know viking=boxy, >>11thcent= got more fitted, 12th= even more so. 13th= cotehardies. 14th= >>houpellande, 15th= gather in the waist of the houpelande until it >>fits.(this is the one word descrption --It does NOT substitute for >>primary source materials--- see #11) Learn to recogognize them in >>pictures. >> >>14) Never underestimate the importance of good ascessories. Headgear, >>jewelry, shoes are easily made, and often overlooked... and without them, >>even the most period dress can be looked down upon. >> >>15)Ask questions. Nicely. >> >>OK,I hope that helps out. >> >>Sarahj >> >> >>**2Y's**UR**2Y's**UB**IC**UR**2Y's**4Me** >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com >> with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME >> > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 4 23:29:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA27255 for ; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 23:29:30 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA29534; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 21:37:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA09062 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 21:35:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.mc.net (mail.mc.net [209.172.128.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id VAA09029 for ; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 21:35:07 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 25927 invoked from network); 5 Jan 1999 04:36:06 -0000 Received: from tntmodem3-93.mc.net (HELO HEATHERL) (209.172.135.93) by mail.mc.net with SMTP; 5 Jan 1999 04:36:06 -0000 Message-ID: <36919A64.4D05@mc.net> Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 20:51:48 -0800 From: Heather Law Organization: Interstellar Trading Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: SCAstuff References: <199901042046.NAA01681@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Rating: mail.mc.net 1.6.1 0/1000/N Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Heather Law > - -Poster: Merouda the True > > > Please pardon me if this request is inappropriate for your group, but > > I > > am looking for an on line list of SCA Costuming rules or guidelines. The years are 600 to 1600 AD, with tolerance for Cavalier ("3-Musketeers Look). If you'll send me your email addy, I'll send you a list of my favorite sites, plus several SCA web pages. Also, you would be up to your ears in help, I think, if you joined the SCA-Garb list, at http://www.coollist.com Not only will you get help, you will also find every "cheat-sheet" method in the book, all designed to make garb *more* authentic, comfortable, and **durable**. SCA also publishes a series of mini-books, $4 apiece, and usually pretty carefully researched, about various types of garb (Viking, Byzantine, Russian, Japanese, European (of course) etc., and also, such things as how to choose fabric appropriate for the period. Since folks on this list occasionally express having "had their fill" of SCA stuff, please contact me at lynnx@mc.net and I'll be happy to steer you in some hopefully helpful directions. In service, Heather Law, s.k.a. Sister Ed the Disorganized _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 10:52:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA03580 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:52:09 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA17160; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 09:01:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA01449 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 08:59:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA01428; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 08:59:03 -0700 (MST) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 08:59:03 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199901051559.IAA01428@indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: SCA Costuming Rules? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson >Most folks follow the 10 foot rule. If it looks good at 10 feet, it's okay. I know that this rule gets quoted over and over for SCA and Faire purposes, but I wish it would stop. It's appropriate for theatrical performances, not for up-close work. If everyone in the SCA stood 10 feet away from each other, it would make sense, (although it would make fighting and dancing tough) but they don't. I think a two-foot rule would be a better guideline. As to the poster who's looking for advice, I know that you're a busy business woman, but if you're getting enough SCA clients for you to feel you need help, it would probably be worth your time to go to a few events and do some field research. Margo Anderson "One Tough Costumer" _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 11:21:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA03694 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 11:21:58 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA20517; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 09:31:22 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA06911 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 09:29:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.pacifier.com (root@smtp.pacifier.com [199.2.117.96]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA06898 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 09:29:08 -0700 (MST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: from grendal2 (ip100.van15.pacifier.com [216.65.137.100]) by smtp.pacifier.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA13110 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 08:29:05 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901051629.IAA13110@smtp.pacifier.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 08:28:43 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays Priority: normal In-reply-to: <4.1.19990105054420.00b60b40@pop.slip.net> References: <19990105113322.746.qmail@hotmail.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > ><_For the period 1750 onwards, what evidence is there to suggest how > >much the >by wearing stays._ > > I heard a story about a woman during whose autopsy they found rib-marks on > her liver from tight lacing. I have no way of knowing if this is true or > urban legend. This is not just urban legend. I used to have a medical book which had photographs of autopsies. In it they had several photographs of "the evils of wearing corsets". The livers were very oddly shaped, like an elongated hour glass. It often pushed up into the cavity meant for the lungs as well as deep into the pelvis. There were rib marks on at least one of the livers that I can recall. I no longer have the book but you might be able to go to a medical school library and find it in their old book section. It might also be in the anatomy or physiology section (as I recall it being an anatomy book.) Even in this day and age you can get corset related liver problems, just ask Dolly Pardon. When they were working out respiratory physiology (the study of how the breathing system works) in the 19th century, they thought that men and women had different ways of breathing because that's the way that they were made by God. It wasn't until the 20th Century when corsets were less common that they noticed that some women "breathed like men." Tight lacing definitely has an effect on one's breathing and heart function. Even a moderately laced corset should never be suddenly decompressed (like the sword swipe lace cutting) unless the person is actually in cardiac arrest. Otherwise you may *cause* cardiac arrest. It's no wonder that those tight laced women tended to faint more easily than a women now would. She didn't have the lung capacity she needed for any extended exercise. Also, she was at more risk for lung infections because of atelectesis (partial lung collapse caused by inadequate expansion of the lungs. That's the reason why they have you do deep breathing exercises with the little blow tube apparatus after major abdominal surgery.) Interestingly, she may have had slightly less risk of dying of TB than a person of equal health. Almost everyone had TB until they developed drugs to fight it. In almost everyone it was inactive because it was encapsulated by the body in calcium. If one got ill with something or sometimes as a result of pregnancy/lactation, the body would reabsorb the calcium, thus releasing the tuberculosis bacterium. (That's probably why Edward VI sickened so after he had a case of measles. Although some people think he died of complications of congenital syphilus, he didn't have the right teeth for that and his health prior to the measles was relatively good for such a pampered little boy. However, from the descriptions, he was definitely consumptive.) Once you had active TB, even in this century one of the ways of treating it which actually worked was to tightly bind the rib cage. They even went so far as to do things to ribs make them collapse. (TB is very sensitive to oxygen. Decrease it's oxygen supply and it doesn't grow well.) This sort of leads me to another subject: rib removal. I've heard it mentioned many times that this would have been impossible to do without killing the women. Actually, it wasn't. While I have only heard of one documented case of it for the sake of tight lacing (a famous actress of the day), it was done for the sake of treating TB. They could remove ribs in such a way that it will regrow in a collapsed position. My father had it done before antibiotics were available. (He just died this Halloween at age 93. He was lucky enough to be within a week of dying in a hospital back in the 1940s when they were experimenting on people nearly dead of TB. He was lucky enough to be in the group which got PAS/isoniazid instead of the control group who all died on schedule.) Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 11:39:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA03752 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 11:39:17 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA22217; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 09:48:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA09809 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 09:45:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from centum.utulsa.edu (centum.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.199]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id JAA09791 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 09:45:48 -0700 (MST) Received: by centum.utulsa.edu for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:48:25 -0600 Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:48:25 -0600 From: "I. Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Message-Id: <990105104825.1f6480@centum.utulsa.edu> Subject: H-COST: 10' Rule Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "I. Marc Carlson" > >>Most folks follow the 10 foot rule. If it looks good at 10 feet, it's okay. >I know that this rule gets quoted over and over for SCA and Faire purposes, >but I wish it would stop. It's appropriate for theatrical performances, not >for up-close work. If everyone in the SCA stood 10 feet away from each >other, it would make sense, (although it would make fighting and dancing >tough) but they don't. I think a two-foot rule would be a better guideline. Ma'am, while I would personally prefer a two-foot, or even a two-millimeter rule, I am content to encourage a ten-foot rule for accuracy since, to judge from what I have seen at various things (including, but not limited to, SCA and Faires) even -that-'s exceeding some people's levels of interest and willingness. I don't mean to criticize those people in those venues who are doing some darned good work. I'm just saying that I find the "ten foot rule", a good, non-threatening, basic standard to encourage when dealing with people or places that have no other rigidly held standards. It is true that when educating people in what is historically accurate, an "audience" may remain ten feet or more away, while when dealing with people in small groups they will likely come much closer than that, but it is my understanding that most groups who are dealing with educating the public maintain much tighter standards than a mere "ten-foot rule". Faires and the SCA do not exist to educate the public, and so I do not expect them to adhere to the rigid guidelines of those people who do. If they can be encouraged, as non-threateningly as possible, to help with educating themselves and each other by dressing to a ten-foot standard, that's really all we can hope for. Now, if you want to get into whether or not the SCA or RenFaires *should* have a universal standard for accuracy, I'll be happy to talk about that offlist (since even if it *were* an appropriate topic for this list, it's not a topic I choose to discuss publically), but really I think the question is one of realistic expectations, and the frustrations of pushing people into running who have not yet learned to walk. Disagreements and flames may be directed to Marc Carlson LIB_IMC@centum.utulsa.edu _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 12:09:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA03878 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 12:09:03 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA25216; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:17:49 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA15668 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:15:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA15659 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:15:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA19340 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 09:15:35 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <369248CF.31871FCD@serv.net> Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 09:15:59 -0800 From: Merouda the True X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: H-COST: SCA Costuming Rules? References: <199901042046.NAA01645@indra.com> <19990104.222144.25342.7.seamstrix@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Merouda the True > >Most folks accept that the more research and the more accurate > >the better, but also accept that not everyone is capable. > I have to take exception to the phrase 'not capable'. Unless one is > illiterate and/or blind, research is certainly 'capable' if the person > 'cares' to do it. Not everyone knows how to sew for one thing. And to learn how to sew and do the research before going to your first event so that you can have a researched costume? Let me rephrase. Not everyone *wants* to be capable of sewing. Maybe they want to spend their precious spare time learning how to make armour. Thank god for merchants. Maybe we should require that the *merchants* at the events only sell researched clothing. Merchants selling fantastical historical clothing are probably the most responsible for the image of poor research. > I'll admit it. But I have never and will never slam a person for a bad > outfit. If they ask I will try to gently and kindly point out aspects to > improve or resources they could try. The only unsolicited feedback I will > give is a compliment. Excellent. I try to do this as well. I for one tend to close my ears whengiven unkind criticism, but kindly compliments from a well dressed gentle always inspires me to try harder next time. :) > I resent that having high standards of authenticity > is often confused with the people who seem to be trying to build up their > own egos by cutting other people down. Huzzah! I am just amazed by the stories I hear. In agreement, Cynthia -- Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 12:11:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA03888 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 12:11:32 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA25552; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:20:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA16166 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:18:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA16148 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:18:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p20.directcon.net [206.170.184.69]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA28016 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 09:14:47 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 09:14:47 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901051714.JAA28016@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: 10' Rule Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson At 10:48 AM 1/5/99 -0600, you wrote: > >-Poster: "I. Marc Carlson" >Ma'am, while I would personally prefer a two-foot, or even a two-millimeter >rule, I am content to encourage a ten-foot rule for accuracy since, to judge >from what I have seen at various things (including, but not limited to, SCA >and Faires) even -that-'s exceeding some people's levels of interest and >willingness. I don't mean to criticize those people in those venues who are >doing some darned good work. I'm just saying that I find the "ten foot rule", >a good, non-threatening, basic standard to encourage when dealing with people >or places that have no other rigidly held standards. > Perhaps I should call it a guideline rather than a rule. At any rate, telling newcomers that it's okay to do bad work or use bad materials because it'll look okay from ten feet away is doing them a diservice. Why not help them get started at a reasonable level? It's just not that much harder. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 12:16:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA03937 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 12:16:53 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA26113; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:25:35 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA16910 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:23:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from mx.serv.net (mx.serv.net [205.153.153.234]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA16902 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:23:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from gia-g (dialup713.serv.net [207.207.65.77]) by mx.serv.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA03122 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 09:23:18 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <000c01be38d0$918ad360$4d41cfcf@gia-g> From: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: rules of the list? Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 09:26:42 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" Please forgive me...I belong to the SCA...I was merely trying to beg forgiveness of those who are sensitive about using the list to promote the SCA. Again, begging forgiveness for seeming to slight the SCA I love and participate in. Gia/Giacinta -----Original Message----- From: Sandra J. Westergren To: costume ml Date: Monday, January 04, 1999 10:17 PM Subject: H-COST: rules of the list? > >-Poster: "Sandra J. Westergren" > > >>OASN: This is *seriously* OT (sorry listers! SCA specific is a no-no!), >so >>if you have questions re: resources, you can email privately to those you >>see have SCA affiliations in their emails.< > >Could the list manager refresh our memories about the rules for this list? >What are the qualifications, education, and affiliations necessary to be a >part of this sharing of knowledge? >For what reasons can your membership here be denied? >And please tell me if SCA specific topics really are a no-no. If so, then >I would hope the list of no-nos would also include: >Civil War specific >Movie specific >Ren Fest specific >Halloween specific >Victorian specific >Edwardian specific >. . . . . . . . >The listing could go on entirely too long. > >Usually I read such negative statements concerning the SCA and forgive and >forget. But I have seen SCA being singled out so often and rarely (if >ever) does any other thread get the same treatment. It leaves me pondering >what the Society does or stands for that puts such a nasty taste in the >mouths of historical costumers. I read sane, logical, and researched posts >with a signature line proudly proclaiming SCA participation. I recognize >names of others who, for reasons that may include avoidance of ridicule, >purposely keep their SCA standing secret from this list. I see many who >wished to learn from the collective wealth of knowledge held herein only to >be belittled and sent away simply for mentioning three letters. > >If the SCA is not welcomed, then proclaim that from the beginning. Ask the >questions and deny access to all who dare speak the words Society for >Creative Anachronism. I, for one, will walk away gladly. For in the SCA I >have found acceptance unmatched by this list. I have found courtesy and >noble bearing. I revel in the respect given to any interest one cares to >persue, to any degree of expertise one can manage. And I have seen many >well researched and exquisite articles made by those within Society ranks. >It saddens me that their knowledge of historical costume seems to be >unwelcomed on a list whose purpose is the study of clothing through the >ages. It hurts even deeper to realize that SCA affiliation destroys the >chance to ask questions and learn. > >Please let me know if I am no longer welcomed, for I am >Mistress Cassandra of the Western Green, Member of the Order of the Laurel >for costuming, abiding in the Barony of Nordskogen within the starry lands >of Northshield, proud daughter of the Midrealm and card carrying member of >the SCA since 1985. >also known as >Sandra Westergren from Minneapolis Minnesota USA, sewing since the age of >10 > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 12:25:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA04213 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 12:25:51 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA27205; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:34:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA18525 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:32:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA18509 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:32:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA19381 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 09:32:26 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36924CC3.1DBCE38E@serv.net> Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 09:32:51 -0800 From: Merouda the True X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays References: <19990105113322.746.qmail@hotmail.com> <199901051629.IAA13110@smtp.pacifier.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Merouda the True Thank you for this most informative post. Thank god your father lived. :) Cynthia > This is not just urban legend. I used to have a medical book which > had photographs of autopsies. In it they had several photographs of > "the evils of wearing corsets". > This sort of leads me to another subject: rib removal. I've heard it > mentioned many times that this would have been impossible to do > without killing the women. Actually, it wasn't. -- Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 12:45:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA04282 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 12:45:48 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA29509; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:55:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA20223 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:41:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from sun.rmci.net (sun.rmci.net [205.162.184.21]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id KAA20204 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:41:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 26753 invoked from network); 5 Jan 1999 17:37:17 -0000 Received: from pag-di51.rica.net (HELO rica.net) (209.211.110.51) by sun.rmci.net with SMTP; 5 Jan 1999 17:37:17 -0000 Message-ID: <36924C8D.4B4B26CD@rica.net> Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 12:31:58 -0500 From: Jennie Chancey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Major Design Project -- Need sources! References: <199901042046.NAA01645@indra.com> <19990104.222144.25342.7.seamstrix@juno.com> <369248CF.31871FCD@serv.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Jennie Chancey Back again after Christmas/New Year's vacation, and I've just been handed a huge project that is quite exciting. A new catalogue (which must remain nameless for now) is starting up, which will feature authentic, high quality historical/nostalgic toys for boys. Kind of like the American Girls line with the dolls and matching historical outfits, this new catalogue would like to offer five or six complete outfits for boys that go along with a story from the past, like Sergeant York, Davy Crockett, Squanto, etc. I have been asked to design the outfits, and I am very excited to do so. However, because the company has never done anything in the clothing area before, they do not know where to go to hire the labor to have the outfits made. They do not want to use China or Mexico (sweatshops), but they do need to be able to order 500-1000 outfits at a pop and keep them in stock in three sizes (3-5 year old; 6-9 year old; 10-12 year old). I know a lot of great seamstresses out there who make boys' reenacting clothing, etc., but I am clueless when it comes to outsourcing something this huge. Does anyone on the list know of a company or group that can make good quality clothing (not Halloween costume "cheap-os," but not reenactment quality goods, either)? I would appreciate any and all suggestions. I'm going to get on the net and look around, but I seriously doubt I'll find something without a referral. And I do need to be able to make sure they do not use underpaid or "free" labor. Thanks much! Jennie Chancey -- Sense and Sensibility http://www.sensibility.com winsome clothing with an old-fashioned appeal _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 12:53:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA04312 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 12:53:00 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA00564; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 11:02:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA23374 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:59:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from proxy4.ba.best.com (root@proxy4.ba.best.com [206.184.139.15]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA23338 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:59:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from best.com (lavolta.vip.best.com [206.86.95.234]) by proxy4.ba.best.com (8.9.1/8.9.0/best.out) with ESMTP id JAA05125 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 09:55:51 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36925029.D4CBB17B@best.com> Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 09:47:21 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays References: <19990105113322.746.qmail@hotmail.com> <199901051629.IAA13110@smtp.pacifier.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lavolta Press > > > This sort of leads me to another subject: rib removal. I've heard it > mentioned many times that this would have been impossible to do > without killing the women. Actually, it wasn't. While I have only > heard of one documented case of it for the sake of tight lacing (a > famous actress of the day), it was done for the sake of treating TB. > They could remove ribs in such a way that it will regrow in a > collapsed position. My father had it done before antibiotics were > available. (He just died this Halloween at age 93. He was lucky > enough to be within a week of dying in a hospital back in the 1940s > when they were experimenting on people nearly dead of TB. He was > lucky enough to be in the group which got PAS/isoniazid instead of > the control group who all died on schedule.) But did they remove ribs in the 19th century or earlier? I don't know much about medical history. But I believe that in the 1940s doctors were aware of how to prevent infection (formerly a major cause of post-surgical death) by keeping all tools, etc. free of bacteria. They also may have had better surgical techniques than in the 19th century. I think by the 1940s they had sulfa drugs (which are not strictly speaking antibiotics but which combat infections; when I was a child people allergic to penicillin were given sulfa drugs). There is also a difference between whether a doctor will perform a serious, even potentially fatal operation in the hope of saving the life of someone who would probably die without it, and whether the doctor would perform the same operation for purely cosmetic reasons. Fran ---------------------------------------------- Visit our web sites! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.best.com/~lavolta/index.htm Vintage and historic dance http://www.best.com/~lavolta/dance/index.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 13:13:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA04389 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:13:51 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA02822; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 11:22:40 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA27082 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 11:20:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA27071 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 11:20:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA19564 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:20:20 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36925569.9640E596@serv.net> Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 10:09:45 -0800 From: Merouda the True X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 10' Rule References: <199901051714.JAA28016@zeus.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Merouda the True > Perhaps I should call it a guideline rather than a rule. At any rate, > telling newcomers that it's okay to do bad work or use bad materials > because it'll look okay from ten feet away is doing them a diservice. Why > not help them get started at a reasonable level? It's just not that much > harder. Less than 2 years ago, I was a newcomer in the SCA. One of the first things I was told was the 10 foot guideline. And thank god for the guideline. I spent days sewing and embroidering and beading a tunic. No sleeve tunic. Darts and a zipper. Poly twill. I just put it in the gold key box. *urp* It was really nice actually, just no way was it period. I wore it with a calf length silk velvet circle skirt and my biker boots. I'm cracking up typing this. My god, the tunic was navy, the skirt plum. I wore a crocheted leather top over all this as fake chain mail. *sigh* *laugh* Some nice lady was even kind enough to compliment me on the skirt. The fabric *was* gorgeous. I just finished a gorgeous velvet cotehardie with silk embroidery, pearls, and garnets. The buttons, button holes, and eyelets are straight out of the Museum of London's Textile book. I have documentation for the velvet, both as a fabric and as a color, red. I can document the embroidery and the beadwork. I have made a reticulated head dress and have a nice metal hip belt. I made the linen undergarment completely by hand with linen thread. I have pointy shoes although I need some work on that, and all my seams are finished in a period manner. If I had time to pull the documentation together and write the paper in three days, I would enter it in the Court Garb contest this weekend at Coronation / Twelth Night. Why this long story? Well, to illustrate that 10' foot rule helped me be comfortable enough to attend a *second* event. If I had been made to feel like a complete idiot, I never would have returned. I was nervous enough as it was. I was so grateful that the SCA was so accepting of my first attempts. My gold key donation box is full. *G* Half my fabric stash has gotta go too. But I was so inspired by all the lovely period clothing that I couldn't wait to get home and go to the library and the fabric store. The fabric stores of Seattle, WA, are grateful that the SCA was so welcoming as well. They have made a fortune on me. The progress of my research is documented in the clothing I made. Each gown got better and better. I am currently planning an Italian Renn, a Tudor, and an Elizabethan. For the the next three annual costume contests. This should keep me busy until 2002. heh. So, in my not so humble ( ;-> ) opinion, I think the 10' foot rule encouraged me to come back and learn something. What I have learned in the last 2 years has been phenomenal (everything I know about historical costuming I learned in this 2 year period). And what I have found is my life's passion. Not bad I think, Cynthia -- Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 13:28:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA04455 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:28:53 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA04880; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 11:38:11 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA29880 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 11:35:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from echo.flash.net (echo.flash.net [209.30.0.40]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA29835 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 11:35:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from flash.net (p34.amax16.dialup.hou1.flash.net [209.30.68.34]) by echo.flash.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA27410 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 12:34:13 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36925A4E.E297A75F@flash.net> Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 12:30:38 -0600 From: Charlene Charette X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-Costume List Subject: H-COST: H-Needlework list Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Charlene Charette I'm sorry to have committed a netiquette faux pas. I reference another list and didn't provide an address. The historical needlework list can be found at h-needlework@ansteorra.org. To join, send a message to majordomo@ansteorra.org. Or you can visit http://lists.ansteorra.org/lists.html to join any number of lists. I'll be gone 1/8/99-1/17/99 so if you have any problems getting on or off the h-needlework list I won't be able to help until I return. You can reach me at owner-h-needlework@ansteorra.org or charlene@flash.net. --Charlene -- No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible. -- Stanislaus Lezczynski _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 13:46:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA04570 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:46:09 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA06769; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 11:55:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA02922 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 11:53:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from ic.net (ic.net [152.160.8.96]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id LAA02912 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 11:53:01 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199901051853.LAA02912@indra.com> Received: (qmail 6630 invoked from network); 5 Jan 1999 18:57:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO p3.a1.56k.ic.net) (152.160.117.3) by unknown with SMTP; 5 Jan 1999 18:57:09 -0000 From: "Steve & Michelle Plumb" To: "historic costume group" Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 13:12:42 -0400 Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail 1.96a For OS/2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: H-COST: Fwd: HELP Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Steve & Michelle Plumb" Hello! I am forwarding this message on behalf of Donna, a member of the Knitlist. She has a costuming question. Please send the answers to her at: huntdn@aimnet.com Thanks! Michelle =================BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE================= HELP Completely off the knitting subject. A dear friend of mine is writing a book and asked me a question that made my mind blank! I know---big surprise!!!! Would a man (young man) wear a shirt of flax about 1000 years ago? I had such a good laugh, because I can't remember what I wore yesterday half the time let alone 1,000 years ago. If there is anyone out there that can answer this, or tell me what was worn, John and I would be grateful. Have a great week everyone. Donna Hunt and the Girls (Toaster and Indy) Livermore, Ca. Even in 1999 Knitting is still Chicken Soup for my Soul. ===================END FORWARDED MESSAGE=================== _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 13:46:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA04574 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:46:27 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA06842; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 11:55:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA02952 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 11:53:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from artemis.chass.utoronto.ca (artemis.chass.utoronto.ca [128.100.160.6]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA02945 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 11:53:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from dsc (ppp19.chass.utoronto.ca [128.100.160.139]) by artemis.chass.utoronto.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA02650 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:54:35 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <004801be38dd$04911f20$8ba06480@dsc> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: Subject: H-COST: Rib removal Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:55:51 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Greetings! Fran said, >There is also a difference between whether a doctor will perform a serious, even >potentially fatal operation in the hope of saving the life of someone who would >probably die without it, and whether the doctor would perform the same operation >for purely cosmetic reasons. Precisely. I can't see anyone in the 19th century wanting to undergo elective surgery for *any* reason. (Does anyone know when cosmetic surgery as we know it started being done?). I've also heard "rib removal" posited for periods as far back as the 16th century (which demonstrates a misunderstanding of the purpose of earlier corsets), which is even scarier to think about. Rib removal rumours are still with us. We just had a thread discussing "rib removal in supermodels" in alt.folklore.urban (conclusion: removal of the lower ribs would probably produce the reverse of the desired effect, since they hold organs in place); there's also the one that crops up from time to time regarding rock stars (currently the trendy one is Marilyn Manson) who do this to, uh, fellate themselves (also no proof....) Rib removals happen. The supermodels thread in a.f.u. brought up one instance of a major league pitcher who had one of his ribs (in this case, one of the upper ones) removed to increase circulation in his pitching arm; and I'm sure there are other real medical reasons why they're done. Susan Carroll-Clark _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 13:59:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA04624 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:59:55 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA08307; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 12:08:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA05379 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 12:06:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA05358 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 12:06:34 -0700 (MST) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 7HTEa03210 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:05:53 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1d11b561.36926291@aol.com> Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:05:53 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Musketeers Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 226 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com I have a source for two types of traditional "cavalier", and I just used them for a scene form Cyrano. One in quantity that looks fine from a distance, with plumes, for $8.75/ea, the other is $45/ea and is high quality. Let me know if you're interested and I'll look them up and post. angil +++++ + + + + + + + Angela F. Lazear Costumes & Custom Clothing "Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition From Mediocre Minds" A. Einstein In a message dated 1/4/1999 23:00:44 Pacific Standard Time, costumrs@binary.net writes: << > >The big problem I foresee is getting ahold of >some Musketeer hats, big broad-brimmed hats to be adorned with plumes. I >would far rather not be driven to making them. Does anyone know of a >supplier that deals in quantity with these? > Brenda >> _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 14:11:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA04670 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:11:52 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA09355; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 12:21:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA07356 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 12:18:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA07311 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 12:18:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.217.218.208] (ell206.acadia.net [205.217.210.48]) by p2.acadia.net (8.8.5/8.8.6) with SMTP id OAA15602 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:18:20 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:18:21 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: skeletons and stays Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) <> For this question, you might contact the Museum of American History at the Smithsonian -- they did quite a bit of research on the subject for the "Life After the Revolution" exhibit when it was mounted about 12 years ago. They had special mannikins made for the women's clothing in particular, to make them conform to a figure wearing stays. Deborah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 14:16:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA04692 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:16:25 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA09799; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 12:25:34 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA08086 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 12:23:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from epicurus.miningco.com (epicurus.miningco.com [207.122.100.23]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id MAA08064 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 12:23:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from LISA [209.162.71.46] by epicurus.miningco.com (AltaVista Mail V2.0/2.0 BL23 listener) id 0000_00fc_3692_749e_c769; Tue, 05 Jan 1999 15:22:54 -0500 Message-Id: <4.1.19990105102631.0095e1e0@mail.tmsonline.com> X-Sender: reenactment@mail.miningco.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 11:19:44 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lisa Scovel Subject: Re: H-COST: 10' Rule In-Reply-To: <36925569.9640E596@serv.net> References: <199901051714.JAA28016@zeus.directcon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lisa Scovel I just *loved* this story! One of the things that stands out to me most in the argument that everyone should be able to do research is that some people simply don't know that they *need* to do research. Seems silly to experienced people, but some folks just need a good example set before them to scratch their heads and say, oh, I guess I'm not doing it quite right. Anyone who grew up watching the Hollywood movies that approached costuming in, at best, a half-hearted manner, pretty much think that if it kind of looks right, it's good enough. It reminds me of being a kid playing dress-up, when empty toilet paper tubes strung together around my head *were* beautiful sausage curls, and no one could tell me differently. It's just idealistic ignorance, really. It's important to be sympathetic towards the unenlightened costumer because we have all done silly things when we started. I once found a great pair of strappy heels at a thrift store for $1 that I was convinced were 1930's. Very excited, I ran them over to my good friend's house (she was the reigning Miss Art Deco at the time), just to have her tell me that no, they were 70's funky. Talk about embarrassed! She was oh-so-tactful, though, and she and the other Art Deco Society folks were very patient with my early attempts at period dress, lending me things when I needed them. Having witnessed snobbery among similar groups, I have to say that I, too, would have run away had it not been for the tolerance. I would say that most people have good intentions - a little tolerance and gentle guidance can go a long way. The most important point to make, though, is that the SCA, in particular, holds mostly non-public events, so why be offended by another person, if they're content with the results of their efforts? Research takes a lot of time that some people simply don't have to spare, and for those who do, it often takes years (or lots of cash!) to learn enough to do better than the 10' rule. Which is more important, that all sorts of people are involved and enjoying themsleves, or that we have a perfect bunch of historical fashion models constantly attempting to outdo one another? At 10:09 AM 1/5/99 -0800, you wrote: > >-Poster: Merouda the True >Why this long story? Well, to illustrate that 10' foot rule helped me be >comfortable enough to attend a *second* event. If I had been made to >feel like a complete idiot, I never would have returned. I was nervous >enough as it was. I was so grateful that the SCA was so accepting of >my first attempts. My gold key donation box is full. *G* Half my >fabric stash has gotta go too. *********************** lisa scovel historical reenactment guide the mining co. http://reenactment.miningco.com "Learning from history is never a one-way process. To learn about the present in terms of the past means also to learn about the past in the light of the present. The function of history is to promote a profounder understanding of both past and present through the interrelation between them." Edward Hallett Carr _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 14:16:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA04696 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:16:27 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA09810; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 12:25:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA08084 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 12:23:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from epicurus.miningco.com (epicurus.miningco.com [207.122.100.23]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id MAA08067 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 12:23:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from LISA [209.162.71.46] by epicurus.miningco.com (AltaVista Mail V2.0/2.0 BL23 listener) id 0000_00fc_3692_752d_cd5b; Tue, 05 Jan 1999 15:25:17 -0500 Message-Id: <4.1.19990105112044.00969b30@mail.tmsonline.com> X-Sender: reenactment@mail.miningco.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 11:22:08 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lisa Scovel Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays In-Reply-To: <36925029.D4CBB17B@best.com> References: <19990105113322.746.qmail@hotmail.com> <199901051629.IAA13110@smtp.pacifier.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lisa Scovel At 09:47 AM 1/5/99 -0800, you wrote: >But I believe that in the 1940s doctors were aware of how >to prevent infection (formerly a major cause of post-surgical death) by keeping >all tools, etc. free of bacteria. They also may have had better surgical >techniques than in the 19th century. Wasn't it Florence Nightingale who was the first modern proponent of sterilization of medical instruments? *********************** lisa scovel historical reenactment guide the mining co. http://reenactment.miningco.com "Learning from history is never a one-way process. To learn about the present in terms of the past means also to learn about the past in the light of the present. The function of history is to promote a profounder understanding of both past and present through the interrelation between them." Edward Hallett Carr _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 14:19:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA04710 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:19:43 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA10236; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 12:28:32 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA08552 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 12:26:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA08545 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 12:26:14 -0700 (MST) From: Tsrra@aol.com Received: from Tsrra@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id IKLOa03539 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:23:56 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:23:56 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Fwd: HELP Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 58 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Tsrra@aol.com In a message dated 99-01-05 13:53:16 EST, you write: << Would a man (young man) wear a shirt of flax about 1000 years ago >> Well, he wouldn't wear a shirt of flax, but he probably had one of linen. TS Ohara _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 14:27:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA04738 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:27:16 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA11129; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 12:36:35 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA09863 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 12:34:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from centum.utulsa.edu (centum.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.199]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id MAA09845 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 12:34:18 -0700 (MST) Received: by centum.utulsa.edu for H-COSTUME@INDRA.COM; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:36:55 -0600 Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:36:55 -0600 From: "I. Marc Carlson" To: H-COSTUME@indra.com Message-Id: <990105133655.1efc60@centum.utulsa.edu> Subject: Re: H-COST: 10' Rule Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "I. Marc Carlson" > >>Ma'am, while I would personally prefer a two-foot, or even a two-millimeter >>rule, I am content to encourage a ten-foot rule for accuracy since, to judge >>from what I have seen at various things (including, but not limited to, SCA >>and Faires) even -that-'s exceeding some people's levels of interest and >>willingness. I don't mean to criticize those people in those venues who are >>doing some darned good work. I'm just saying that I find the "ten foot rule", >>a good, non-threatening, basic standard to encourage when dealing with people >>or places that have no other rigidly held standards. >Perhaps I should call it a guideline rather than a rule. At any rate, >telling newcomers that it's okay to do bad work or use bad materials >because it'll look okay from ten feet away is doing them a diservice. Why >not help them get started at a reasonable level? It's just not that much >harder. Under ideal circumstances, I agree with you completely. Personally, I believe that hard core adherence to historical accuracy is not only better looking, but also in the long run cheaper and easier than "faking it". However, this is not an ideal world, and the reality is that there are a lot of new people who want to be involved, and who are put off by the "threat" of authenticity. I *think* this has to do with a fear of looking stupid, or of willingly putting themselves into a situation where people can judge them and criticize them. Some places deal with this by having set standards to which new people can refer and say, "ok, I need to do -this-, and I'll fit in". It is a reality that not everyone does this. If the organizations you deal with have such, I'm jealous. Unfortunately, I have to deal with an organization that does not give me the luxury of set standards beyond "an attempt at pre-17th century garb", and no amount of holding my breath and being irritable and cranky about it will change that. Certainly, when I see a new person (or even someone who's been around for a decade or two) who's wearing something that has no origin in history, I can tell them that what they are wearing is inaccurate, that it drapes all wrong, it's made of the wrong fabric, and so on (and heck, I can *even* do it -nicely- if I put my mind to it), and some people will understand and others will be put off. But leaving aside for the moment that it's not my *place* to tell them that, if I can offend the fewest number of people, I am much more likely to have more people willing to listen to me the next time. In other words, if I suggest that it doesn't matter *what* their underwear is made of, that nobody cares if they are wearing linen or a reasonable looking cotton fake, and that if from ten feet away, the visual difference between that wool and such a polyester is minimal (particularly if I (or someone else) can then take the time to explain that wool has a certain drape to it that CAN be distinguished from a distance, and such and such a polyester will mimic that drape sort of...), I can convey the impression that it ISN'T threatening. That way, later, when I bring up thread-counts and Z and S spun threads casually in conversation, they don't get that scared "Marc's going to be mean to me" look in their eye (or worse, the "there's not going to be a test over this, is there" look). To be blunt, the seduction of the "innocent" to the accurate side of the street can take time and effort. It's a process of gradual education. If they don't want to hear it, you can't make them, and even trying to push can drive them even further from what you are trying to accomplish. The "ten-foot rule" should not be seen as an end result, but as part of an ongoing process of education... Marc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 14:35:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA04769 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:35:30 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA11995; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 12:44:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA11017 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 12:42:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from send1e.yahoomail.com (send1e.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.64]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id MAA11006 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 12:42:25 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <19990105193747.2828.rocketmail@send1e.yahoomail.com> Received: from [206.159.234.11] by send1e; Tue, 05 Jan 1999 11:37:46 PST Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 11:37:46 -0800 (PST) From: Lyssandre MacKenzie Subject: H-COST: Dolly Levi's Dinner Dress To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lyssandre MacKenzie Okay- Just got through watching "Hello DollY (B. Streisand) for the umpteenth time, and finally have the courage to try and replicate the gold beaded dinner dress, although I am still debating whether to bead mine. (No patience for work like that. *sigh*) Anyway, I am wondering if anyone can suggest where I can find good pictures of the gown so I can figure out how the smocked hips and the skirt were put together? Thanks for any advise, Noelle _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 15:01:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA04887 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 15:01:33 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA15392; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:09:57 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA16110 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:07:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from proxy3.ba.best.com (root@proxy3.ba.best.com [206.184.139.14]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA16104 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:07:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from best.com (lavolta.vip.best.com [206.86.95.234]) by proxy3.ba.best.com (8.9.1/8.9.0/best.out) with ESMTP id MAA07559 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 12:05:43 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36926E99.582C462C@best.com> Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 11:57:13 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays References: <19990105113322.746.qmail@hotmail.com> <199901051629.IAA13110@smtp.pacifier.com> <4.1.19990105112044.00969b30@mail.tmsonline.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lavolta Press Lisa Scovel wrote: > -Poster: Lisa Scovel > > At 09:47 AM 1/5/99 -0800, you wrote: > >But I believe that in the 1940s doctors were aware of > >how > >to prevent infection (formerly a major cause of post-surgical death) by > keeping > >all tools, etc. free of bacteria. They also may have had better surgical > >techniques than in the 19th century. > > Wasn't it Florence Nightingale who was the first modern proponent of > sterilization of medical instruments? I did not say that in the 19th century no one was aware of the need to clean surgical instruments. What I said was that it _was_common medical practice in the 1940s, and surgical techniques for removing the ribs may have been better in the1940s than in the 19th century. The rib removal for cosmetic reasons idea has been circulated for pre-19th-century periods. Personally, I wouldn't volunteer for it even in the 1990s. Fran ---------------------------------------------- Visit our web sites! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.best.com/~lavolta/index.htm Vintage and historic dance http://www.best.com/~lavolta/dance/index.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 15:09:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA04926 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 15:09:25 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA16174; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:17:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA17426 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:15:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA17407 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:15:21 -0700 (MST) From: SAQUEEN@aol.com Received: from SAQUEEN@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id ASJWa04795 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 15:14:28 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <7df7a5af.369272a4@aol.com> Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 15:14:28 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: skeletons and stays Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 61 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: SAQUEEN@aol.com Dear All, I just received my show catalog for the Washington Antiques Show. Claudia Kidwell, curator at National Museum of American History, has an excellent article and drawings that explain stays, posture, women's silhouette of the late 18th century. The show catalog is $10.00 -- a real value for the 5 articles and pictures of the special exhibition of 18th century garments from Mary Doerings private collection. This one article would help explain the period shape and answer many of your questions about body shapes. Sally Queen Costume Calendar Series http://www.sallyqueenassociates.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 15:21:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA04984 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 15:21:48 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA17851; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:31:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA20042 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:28:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from epicurus.miningco.com (epicurus.miningco.com [207.122.100.23]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id NAA20027 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:28:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from LISA [209.162.71.46] by epicurus.miningco.com (AltaVista Mail V2.0/2.0 BL23 listener) id 0000_00fc_3692_84d7_3259; Tue, 05 Jan 1999 16:32:07 -0500 Message-Id: <4.1.19990105121303.0099f100@mail.tmsonline.com> X-Sender: reenactment@mail.miningco.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 12:28:58 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lisa Scovel Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays In-Reply-To: <36926E99.582C462C@best.com> References: <19990105113322.746.qmail@hotmail.com> <199901051629.IAA13110@smtp.pacifier.com> <4.1.19990105112044.00969b30@mail.tmsonline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lisa Scovel I wasn't arguing with you at all. Your comment merely conjured up one of those random facts stuck in my brain and I began to wonder what, in fact, the timeframe was for widespread sterilization. Personally, though sterilization is an issue, of course, my immediate concern regarding such things would be about anaesthesia! At 11:57 AM 1/5/99 -0800, you wrote: > >-Poster: Lavolta Press >> Wasn't it Florence Nightingale who was the first modern proponent of >> sterilization of medical instruments? > >I did not say that in the 19th century no one was aware of the need to clean >surgical instruments. What I said was that it _was_common medical practice in >the 1940s, and surgical techniques for removing the ribs may have been >better in >the1940s than in the 19th century. The rib removal for cosmetic reasons idea >has been circulated for pre-19th-century periods. Personally, I wouldn't >volunteer for it even in the 1990s. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 15:34:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA05034 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 15:34:46 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA19183; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:43:29 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA22181 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:41:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from proxy3.ba.best.com (root@proxy3.ba.best.com [206.184.139.14]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA22171 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:41:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from best.com (lavolta.vip.best.com [206.86.95.234]) by proxy3.ba.best.com (8.9.1/8.9.0/best.out) with ESMTP id MAA02471 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 12:39:15 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36927675.7B109C2B@best.com> Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 12:30:45 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays References: <19990105113322.746.qmail@hotmail.com> <199901051629.IAA13110@smtp.pacifier.com> <4.1.19990105112044.00969b30@mail.tmsonline.com> <4.1.19990105121303.0099f100@mail.tmsonline.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lavolta Press Lisa Scovel wrote: > -Poster: Lisa Scovel > > I wasn't arguing with you at all. Sorry. > Your comment merely conjured up one of those > random facts stuck in my brain and I began to wonder what, in fact, the > timeframe was for widespread sterilization. Personally, though sterilization > is an issue, of course, my immediate concern regarding such things would be > about anaesthesia! > My guess would be opium or a derivative of same. Don't know when they started using ether. We're probably getting off-topic here though. Fran ---------------------------------------------- Visit our web sites! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.best.com/~lavolta/index.htm Vintage and historic dance http://www.best.com/~lavolta/dance/index.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 16:06:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA05161 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:06:42 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA22404; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:15:47 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA27608 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:13:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.26]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA27597 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:13:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.31.59 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:13:01 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Re: Candle wax Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 15:49:20 -0500 Message-ID: <000201be38f0$c4b5ae20$5d14ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <19990104215618.25469.qmail@www0r.netaddress.usa.net> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Heat up the tea kettle, stretch the waxy part of the tablecloth over the sink or a bowl, and pour boiling water through it until the wax is gone, then launder normally. Works fast, with one teakettle full at most. If there's a stain in the same area, scrub that out first with dishwashing liquid soap, so that the boiling water doesn't set the stain. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Orlaith Sent: Monday, January 04, 1999 4:56 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: Candle wax and AlterYears Patterns -Poster: Orlaith I oopsed! Is there a way to get candle wax out of fabric. The fabric is a nice demaskas(sp?) table cloth. Any help would be extreamly appreciated. Thanks ahead of time, Jonica ____________________________________________________________ This happened to me but with tree sap. I was at an event and sat under a tree... A friend was able to get out the sap when I lent her the dress. The way to do it is to put a piece of plain typing paper on each side of the fabric and then iron. She said it worked great in about 30 seconds. :) She said something about the paper having less moisture than the fabric so the paper wicks out the wax. Someone was asking about AlterYears Patterns (can you tell I'm just catching up on my digets from Christmas?) I have used two of their patterns: PAY-014 "Irish" Dress and Underskirt and PAY-015 "Irish" Leine (Shirt). This was my first attempt at SCA garb and they seemed to work up pretty easily. As I recall I did the Leine all by hand except the neckline. I wanted to practice my hand stitiching but was running out of time with the neckline. I kind of wish I had done it in reverse and made sure I did the neckline by hand since I think it would have turned out better. The instructions were pretty clear but I just lent my patterns to a friend to make her first garb and managed to give them to her without the instructions. She did not have any problems putting togther her garb without them. One word of warning though, on the Irish dress you need about 2 more yards for the skirt then the pattern calls for. I think it was a misprint but I remember being really upset when I got to the last skirt gore had to wait til I could go back to the fabric store the next day. The misprint was later confirmed by another source so I know it wasn't that I just screwed up in the pattern layout. Beth ____________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 ____________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 16:10:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA05177 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:10:51 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA22980; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:19:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA28294 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:17:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA28252 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:17:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.217.218.208] (ell86.acadia.net [205.217.218.70]) by p2.acadia.net (8.8.5/8.8.6) with SMTP id QAA03718 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:17:02 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:17:02 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: re: HELP Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) <<<< Would a man (young man) wear a shirt of flax about 1000 years ago >> Well, he wouldn't wear a shirt of flax, but he probably had one of linen.>> Maybe this is how all those 10 foot rules come about -- making broad assumptions about things. He *might* have worn a linen shirt 1000 years ago, *if* he lived in a smallish area of Europe: not if he lived in Africa, North or South America, most of Asia or Australia. In other words, we need a bit more information -- where did the man live? We shouldn't answer the question based on an assumption that he lived in an area just because it happens to be an area of our interest. Deborah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 16:12:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA05187 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:12:15 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA23238; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:20:58 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA28497 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:18:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from dias.net (dias.net [199.170.176.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA28489 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:18:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (ophelia@localhost) by dias.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA06229 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 15:26:23 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from ophelia@dias.net) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 15:26:22 -0600 (CST) From: "Sara J. Davitt" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: H-COST: SCA Costuming Rules? In-Reply-To: <369248CF.31871FCD@serv.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Sara J. Davitt" > Let me rephrase. Not everyone *wants* to be capable of sewing. Maybe > they want to spend their precious spare time learning how to make armour. > Thank god for merchants. > > Maybe we should require that the *merchants* at the events only sell > researched clothing. Merchants selling fantastical historical clothing are > probably the most responsible for the image of poor research. > On Point one. Historic reenactment is a hobby, and like most semi-elabotea hobbies, require some sort of monetary commitment. I simply consider willingness to sew simply an advantage. in Skydyving, You must have a parachute. You do not have the opportunity to Make a parachute, (beaded and fringed as some may wish to land in style :-) So you buy or rent one. It is the casualty of having a hobby. The right parachutes and costumes are out there... if you actually *Want* to find them. (BTW, handsewing can require little skill or commitment, as soon as one dispells the preconception that it is obnoxious, too difficult, and too slow.) On point two. This is a very good idea. I wish it would be enforced, along with New-age booths selling wicca daggers to those who want thier persona's to have 'a blade'... And those merchants/companies who sell anything with those overused cherubs under the guise of "victorian". Creating the Autheticity Swat Team would be ideal... But I would think that through early education, and supervised newbie shopping, and simply showing merchant types that people won't buy that which is not appropriate is the best way to do it. (That and occasional knowledgable chatter about certain details. to perhaps inform the merchants themselves [though there are many knowledgeable ones out there] Who have been 'fooled' by bad wholesale catalogue representations, and assumptive middlemen. We simply must, through good communication, break down the barriers of preconcieved ideas about costuming, and commitment. Anyone for a crusade? Sarahj :-) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 16:13:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA05194 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:13:10 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA23485; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:22:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA28681 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:19:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA28669 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:19:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (pilot [129.127.36.15]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id HAA26017 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 07:49:34 +1030 (CST) Received: by pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.61+IDA+MU/UA-5.23) id AA04689; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 07:49:33 +1030 Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 07:49:33 +1030 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant X-Sender: csmart@pilot To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays In-Reply-To: <36927675.7B109C2B@best.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Tue, 5 Jan 1999, Lavolta Press wrote: > > Your comment merely conjured up one of those > > random facts stuck in my brain and I began to wonder what, in fact, the > > timeframe was for widespread sterilization. Personally, though sterilization > > is an issue, of course, my immediate concern regarding such things would be > > about anaesthesia! > > > > My guess would be opium or a derivative of same. Don't know when they started > using ether. We're probably getting off-topic here though. Just to continue briefly off topic in the vague hope it might shed some light on the rib removal thing, but anaesthetic (aside from drinking yourself silly) was not really much used until the later Victorian times, when they started using ether. Victoria herself was one of the first to use it, when giving birth to her last one or two kiddies and was a big fan. I can't remember where I read that unfortunately - it was a while ago. Actual antiseptics (as opposed to general cleanliness) were not used until a similar period. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 16:28:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA05244 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:28:20 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA25313; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:36:00 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA01153 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:33:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA01093 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:33:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.181] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 0zxe6L-0006ix-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:33:21 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990105130150.00b8cf00@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 13:02:52 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays In-Reply-To: <199901051629.IAA13110@smtp.pacifier.com> References: <4.1.19990105054420.00b60b40@pop.slip.net> <19990105113322.746.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >This sort of leads me to another subject: rib removal. I've heard it >mentioned many times that this would have been impossible to do >without killing the women. Actually, it wasn't. While I have only >heard of one documented case of it for the sake of tight lacing (a >famous actress of the day), Was her name Pollaire? I have seen photos of her and her teensy waist. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 16:28:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA05248 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:28:31 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA25283; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:35:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA01136 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:33:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA01082 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:33:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.181] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 0zxe6J-0006ix-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:33:19 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990105115242.00b7cd70@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 11:53:34 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #9 In-Reply-To: <003801be38bd$ac8abb20$91a06480@dsc> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows I couldn't have said any better. Thank you Susan. Mistress Kaethe Willig von Mainz, OL, OP Susan Carroll-Clark writes, in a message sent 10:11 AM 1/5/99 -0500: > >-Poster: "Susan Carroll-Clark" > >Greetings! > >>If the SCA is not welcomed, then proclaim that from the beginning. Ask the >>questions and deny access to all who dare speak the words Society for >>Creative Anachronism. I, for one, will walk away gladly. For in the SCA >I >>have found acceptance unmatched by this list. I have found courtesy and >>noble bearing. I revel in the respect given to any interest one cares to >>persue, to any degree of expertise one can manage. And I have seen many >>well researched and exquisite articles made by those within Society ranks. >> >>It saddens me that their knowledge of historical costume seems to be >>unwelcomed on a list whose purpose is the study of clothing through the >>ages. It hurts even deeper to realize that SCA affiliation destroys the >>chance to ask questions and learn. > > >I will speak personally as a fellow member of the SCA. What I have found is >that any discussion about historical costuming is welcomed here. What is >less welcomed is discussions about SCA (or any other group's) rules and regs >or setup. Example: A discussion about how to find information on >Burgundian clothing for an A&S project would be welcome, whereas a detailed >discussion about a particular kingdom's A&S competition probably wouldn't. > >Philosophical discussions about a particular group's attitudes towards >historic costuming have generally been accepted, but usually when they stop >being about philosophy and start being "Well, MY group's better than YOURS" >they stop being as welcome. > >I have never experienced lack of respect here because of my SCA >affliliation, although I do post with my modern name since I'm not in an >SCA-only audience. I have found that if you're knowledgable, you'll be >respected; if you're here to learn and ask questions, you'll be assisted, >regardless of affiliation. Folks here are remarkably helpful and patient. >However, I have sympathy for my non-SCA colleagues who probably grow tired >of fielding questions about the SCA, and I personally don't need yet another >forum to discuss SCA politics or structure. Since I've always felt the >purpose of this list was to bring together those interested in historic >costume from all sorts of backgrounds (re-enactment, living history, >re-creation, academia, theatre, and just plain keen interest), I think it's >important that we don't turn this into a more limited list. > >Cheers-- >Susan Carroll-Clark >SCA Mistress Nicolaa de Bracton > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 16:28:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA05252 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:28:38 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA25363; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:36:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA01158 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:33:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA01122 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:33:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.181] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 0zxe6P-0006ix-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:33:26 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990105131538.00b924e0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 13:17:26 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990105112044.00969b30@mail.tmsonline.com> References: <36925029.D4CBB17B@best.com> <19990105113322.746.qmail@hotmail.com> <199901051629.IAA13110@smtp.pacifier.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >>But I believe that in the 1940s doctors were aware of >>how >>to prevent infection (formerly a major cause of post-surgical death) by >keeping >>all tools, etc. free of bacteria. They also may have had better surgical >>techniques than in the 19th century. > >Wasn't it Florence Nightingale who was the first modern proponent of >sterilization of medical instruments? I think this was Dr. Semmelweis reguarding child bed fever. He advocated washing the hands between the disecting room and the delivery room. The doctors under him were outraged, even after the statictics proved him right. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 16:28:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA05257 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:28:47 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA25382; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:36:07 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA01159 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:33:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA01110 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:33:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.181] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 0zxe6N-0006ix-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:33:24 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990105130525.00b7c760@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 13:09:54 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: 10' Rule In-Reply-To: <199901051714.JAA28016@zeus.directcon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >Perhaps I should call it a guideline rather than a rule. At any rate, >telling newcomers that it's okay to do bad work or use bad materials >because it'll look okay from ten feet away is doing them a diservice. Why >not help them get started at a reasonable level? It's just not that much >harder. Even at Faire there are groups within it who help their own newbies. Just as some SCA households do. But you're right about telling living history newbies it's ok to cheat if the audience is 10 feet away. Funny authenticity story about a ten foot rule from Dickens' Faire (held in San Francisco): Somebody in a costume workshop asked 'what if somebody is close enough to notice that my fly is zippered not buttoned?'. The instructor said 'well in that case I don't think he's interested in authenticity.' Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 16:28:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA05258 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:28:47 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA25394; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:36:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA01163 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:33:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA01133 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:33:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.181] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 0zxe6R-0006ix-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:33:28 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990105132103.00b8c660@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 13:31:50 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: 10' Rule In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990105102631.0095e1e0@mail.tmsonline.com> References: <36925569.9640E596@serv.net> <199901051714.JAA28016@zeus.directcon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >One of the things that stands out to me most in the argument that everyone >should be able to do research is that some people simply don't know that they >*need* to do research. Seems silly to experienced people, but some folks just >need a good example set before them to scratch their heads and say, oh, I guess >I'm not doing it quite right. Anyone who grew up watching the Hollywood movies >that approached costuming in, at best, a half-hearted manner, pretty much think >that if it kind of looks right, it's good enough. It reminds me of being a kid >playing dress-up, when empty toilet paper tubes strung together around my head >*were* beautiful sausage curls, and no one could tell me differently. It's >just idealistic ignorance, really. And then there are the people whose eye isn't trained to know what they are seeing. Like your 70's shoes which weren't Deco. This, again, is training. The first-timer newbie doesn't have that and often needs to be cut some slack for a while. Old timers can help and, IMHO, ought to. Putting them in touch with this list might well help. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 16:29:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA05268 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:29:13 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA25372; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:36:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA01160 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:33:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA01073; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:33:21 -0700 (MST) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:33:21 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199901052133.OAA01073@indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Gaylin Walli" Subject: H-COST: Re: Rib removal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Gaylin Walli" Susan Carroll-Clark asked: >(Does anyone know when cosmetic surgery as we know it started being >done?). Most of the procedures necessary for cosmetic surgery as we know it today for facial surgery have been known since the time of the Egyptians, believe it or not. Gaylin gwalli@infoengine.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 16:30:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA05275 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:30:20 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA25837; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:37:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA01491 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:35:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from hil-img-4.compuserve.com (hil-img-4.compuserve.com [149.174.177.134]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA01469 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:34:58 -0700 (MST) Received: (from root@localhost) by hil-img-4.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.17) id QAA25771 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:34:27 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:34:13 -0500 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: Fwd HELP To: "INTERNET:h-costume-digest@indra.com" Message-ID: <199901051634_MC2-6591-D135@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id QAA05275 Status: O -Poster: Melanie Wilson >Well, he wouldn't wear a shirt of flax, but he probably had one of linen From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 17:12:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA05459 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 17:12:18 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA00486; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 15:21:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA09809 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 15:19:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA09795 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 15:19:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA20493 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:19:05 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36928FF2.D8DABB48@serv.net> Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 14:19:30 -0800 From: Merouda the True X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: H-COST: Calling all An Tir Costumers Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Merouda the True Another h-cost person and myself are meeting this weekend at the An Tir 12th Night celebration slash coronation. If there are any other folks from the list that are going, email me privately and we'll try to all get together for a meet and gab fest!\ Sounds like a blast to me, hope there's a few of us! Merouda (aka Cynthia) -- Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 18:08:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA05670 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 18:08:53 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA07693; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:16:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA20892 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:13:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from arl-img-3.compuserve.com (arl-img-3.compuserve.com [149.174.217.133]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA20875 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:13:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by arl-img-3.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.17) id SAA03853 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 18:13:13 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 18:12:55 -0500 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: Fwd Help To: "INTERNET:h-costume-digest@indra.com" Message-ID: <199901051813_MC2-6595-E06B@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id SAA05670 Status: O -Poster: Melanie Wilson >Well, he wouldn't wear a shirt of flax, but he probably had one of linen From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 18:11:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA05683 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 18:11:05 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA08084; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:18:46 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA21384 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:16:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from tomcat.sac.verio.net (root@tomcat.sac.verio.net [209.162.64.15]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA21369 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:16:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.159.15.40] (pm02-21.rose.sac.verio.net [207.159.15.40]) by tomcat.sac.verio.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA18008 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 15:16:22 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: kworley@mail.ns.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199901052219.PAA09825@indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 15:16:15 -0800 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Katrina Worley Subject: H-COST: ether Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Katrina Worley First documented use of ether as an anesthesia (rather than as a party game) was in Glasgow, Scotland in 1846. The surgery was (I believe) an appendectomy. It took a while to catch on among surgeons, though. It seemed to gain favor earlier on for childbirth. Katrina Katrina in Loomis, CA kworley@ns.net *************** History: what special people were doing in special places at special times; Anthropology: what everyone else was doing the rest of the time. **K. Worley, 1997** _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 18:19:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA05711 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 18:19:04 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA09201; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:26:22 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA22776 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:24:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from x15.engin.umich.edu (root@x15.engin.umich.edu [141.212.198.14]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA22751 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:24:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (parsla@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by x15.engin.umich.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA25506 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 18:23:20 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 18:23:20 -0500 (EST) From: Parsla Liepa To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: [Mid] Help? (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Parsla Liepa Greetings! This request comes from another list that I'm on. Perhaps someone can help this lady? Parsla ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 15:17:13 EST From: KriSiena@aol.com Greetings! A while back while surfing costuming sites I came across a site or piece of a site that had general descriptions of individual pieces of clothing. Like, this is what a farthingale was, when it was worn, by whom, etc. A nice big list, in easy to understand language, covering a pretty good chunk of time. Well, now that I need it I can't find it. Does anyone know where it is? Or something like it? I'm teaching a basic garb class for my shire and this would be an excellent jumping off point for it. Thanks muchly, Isabetta From: KriSiena@aol.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 18:27:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA05740 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 18:27:29 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA11573; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:35:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA27105 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:33:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA26948 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:32:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA20729 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 15:32:45 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3692A136.399B917E@serv.net> Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 15:33:10 -0800 From: Merouda the True X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: SCA Costuming Rules? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Merouda the True > We simply must, through good communication, break down the barriers of > preconcieved ideas about costuming, and commitment. > > Anyone for a crusade? My lady! What exactly do you have in mind? *weg* -- Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 18:38:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA05822 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 18:38:16 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA12459; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:46:21 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA29216 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:44:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA29206 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:44:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip91.an3-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.14.91]) by goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA07154 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 15:44:04 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3692965D.B405AFCE@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 18:46:55 -0400 From: Laurel Wilson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03C-NSCP (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: rules of the list? References: <199901051556.IAA00907@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Laurel Wilson Elizabeth Lear wrote: > -Poster: Elizabeth Lear > > Charlene: > > What she said. > > It's a fine line, but we tend to walk it pretty well. When I have to > step in to bring things back on track, the list members are > understanding and cooperative. This list has managed to survive well > for many years, and I expect it will continue to do so as long as we > follow the guidelines. This list was founded by a woman who loved > costuming regardless of affiliation or time period, and we need to > always remember no group, time or gender is more or less important > here than any other. > > As a 'newbie' on the list, and a non-SCA member and an academic to boot, I just wanted to add my supportive voice to this. The members of this list are remarkably knowledgeable, regardless of how they got their information, and I appreciate that very much. Lauri _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 20:16:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA06311 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 20:16:37 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA20313; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 18:24:35 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA16162 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 18:22:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from m14.boston.juno.com (m14.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.193]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA16139 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 18:22:19 -0700 (MST) Received: (from robingoodfellow4@juno.com) by m14.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id DX89LAZX; Tue, 05 Jan 1999 20:21:00 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 17:52:23 CST Subject: Re: H-COST: Shakespeare In Love Message-ID: <19990105.175310.10823.5.robingoodfellow4@juno.com> References: <19990105154621.718.rocketmail@send105.yahoomail.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3-4,6-7,10-15,17-48 From: robingoodfellow4@juno.com (Anne Louise Bannon) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: robingoodfellow4@juno.com (Anne Louise Bannon) I loved this film as well. What a delight, although my historian spouse spent a fair amount of time griping that the Virginia colonies weren't around until after 1600 something or other. Also, he said tobacco wasn't an interest until well after that. Has anybody got the correct dates on the establishment of the Virginia colony? Secondly, I do have a couple costume questions. There seemed to be buttoning (and a lot of *un* buttonning) of doublets. Is that accurate? And shouldn't Will have been wearing a jerkin under his doublet? Anne B. robingoodfellow4@juno.com Nobody gets out of here without a doggie bag On Tue, 5 Jan 1999 07:46:21 -0800 (PST) Lyssandre MacKenzie writes: > >-Poster: Lyssandre MacKenzie > >I saw "Shakespeare" last Saturday, and I am still hyped. It has been a >long time since I saw a movie THAT good! IMHO this movie was >everything Elizabeth should and could have been. > >If you have not seen it, yet, I highly recommend it. > >Okay- to bring this back on topic- All the dresses they had Elizabeth >wearing in "Shakespeare" were from some of her more famous portraits- >even the peacock dress. > >I would love to hear the observations and opinions of other listies >that have seen it. > >Still on Cloud 7 anyway, > >Noelle > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 20:58:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA06458 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 20:58:14 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA23507; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 19:06:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA01260 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 19:03:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA01254 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 19:03:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p21.directcon.net [206.170.184.70]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA00763 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 18:00:07 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 18:00:07 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901060200.SAA00763@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: 10' Rule Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson >Under ideal circumstances, I agree with you completely. Personally, I believe >that hard core adherence to historical accuracy is not only better looking, >but also in the long run cheaper and easier than "faking it". (SNIP rest of post) Very well put, and convincing. I've got to admit something here....You're right, and I'm wrong. (wow! That didn't hurt as much as I thought it would) I guess I'll just have to leave it at this: The "ten foot rule" is here to stay, it's helpful, it's appropriate....and it irritates the @#$%^ out of me sometimes, especially when I'm kicking chocolate. Margo Anderson "One Tough Costumer" _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 21:02:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA06482 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 21:02:21 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA23884; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 19:10:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA01829 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 19:08:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net [199.45.39.156]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA01823 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 19:08:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from stassja.bellatlantic.net (client-125-26.bellatlantic.net [151.198.125.26]) by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id VAA07619 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 21:08:15 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19990105205119.00a51004@postoffice3.bellatlantic.net> X-Sender: stassja@postoffice3.bellatlantic.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 20:51:26 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: "Mariea M. Goodinson-Dillenkofer" Subject: H-COST: Corsets (Victorian) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Mariea M. Goodinson-Dillenkofer" I've been following the corset thread with much interest and found the Long Island Staylace Association (L.I.S.A.) website ( http://staylace.com/index.html ) had some very interesting images and information. I had sought some vaguely remembered vintage photograph of a corsetted woman in the Victorian era and, while this site doesn't have the woman I remember seeing, it has several pictures of corsetted women, both historical and contemporary. In the historical section, one image in particular boggles the mind (Ethel Granger) as to where in the world her internal organs have gone! Much as I would personally love a smaller waist, I'm not sure I'd be ready for the "waist training" rigors described in this website. Apparently it works, though. I know a costumer in Rhode Island who has sewn for a woman belonging to one of these corseting groups and she had to make a custom dressmaker's dummy to create her outfit. Yes, the woman's body is actually quite altered permanently from corsetting - she doesn't just look that way in her corset. However, she is seldom out of her corset (other than to bathe) - yup, sleeps in one too! Intriguing but I'm not sure entirely tempting. ;> Rie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 21:05:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA06495 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 21:05:46 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA24150; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 19:13:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA02279 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 19:11:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA02250 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 19:11:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p21.directcon.net [206.170.184.70]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA01694 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 18:07:30 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 18:07:30 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901060207.SAA01694@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson Personally, though sterilization >is an issue, of course, my immediate concern regarding such things would be >about anaesthesia! I am one of the few unlucky people who have had major surgery without anaesthesia. The epidural failed during a C-section, and they couldn't give me anything else without endangering the baby. (Now don't run out and get your tubes tied, it's a very rare occurence) Given the level of pain, I think that the likelihood of dying from shock during a rib removal would be very high indeed. I certainley can't imagine the procedure being popularized by word of mouth. Margo Anderson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 21:12:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA06521 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 21:12:01 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA24566; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 19:20:14 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA03013 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 19:18:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA03004 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 19:17:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p21.directcon.net [206.170.184.70]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA28723 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 17:45:56 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 17:45:56 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901060145.RAA28723@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: 10' Rule Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson > >So, in my not so humble ( ;-> ) opinion, I think the 10' foot rule >encouraged me to come back and learn something. I concede that the ten foot rule is probably reassuring to a lot of newbies. I just don't understand why the same concession made to a brand new member should apply to dukes who have been around since (sometimes literally) Day One, and are still wearing cotton poly T-tunics and blue jeans. Shouldn't there be a statute of limitations? This is getting to be a discussion of SCA politics, rather than costuming, and is therefore off topic. I'd be glad to continue the discussion by email or on the SCA list. Margo Anderson "One Tough Costumer" _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 21:18:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA06549 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 21:18:43 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA25121; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 19:26:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA03754 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 19:24:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from shccalam01.salick.com ([207.214.247.93]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA03711 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 19:24:16 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199901060224.TAA03711@indra.com> Received: by SHCCALAM01 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 18:27:33 -0800 From: Kathryn Baron To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: H-COST: Re: Musketeers Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 18:22:52 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kathryn Baron I'd be interested in knowing the details. Thanks. > ---------- > From: MzScahlett@aol.com[SMTP:MzScahlett@aol.com] > Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 1999 11:05 AM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Musketeers > > > -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com > > I have a source for two types of traditional "cavalier", and I just > used them > for a scene form Cyrano. One in quantity that looks fine from a > distance, > with plumes, for $8.75/ea, the other is $45/ea and is high quality. > Let me > know if you're interested and I'll look them up and post. > > angil > +++++ > + + + + + + + > Angela F. Lazear > Costumes & Custom Clothing > > "Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition From > Mediocre Minds" > A. Einstein > > In a message dated 1/4/1999 23:00:44 Pacific Standard Time, > costumrs@binary.net writes: > > << > > >The big problem I foresee is getting ahold of > >some Musketeer hats, big broad-brimmed hats to be adorned with > plumes. I > >would far rather not be driven to making them. Does anyone know of > a > >supplier that deals in quantity with these? > > > Brenda >> > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 21:21:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA06562 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 21:21:03 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA25327; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 19:29:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA04212 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 19:26:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from CC.NEWCASTLE.EDU.AU (SYSTEM@cc.newcastle.edu.au [134.148.4.24]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA04186 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 19:26:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from noname.newcastle.edu.au (c25mc1-asy16.newcastle.edu.au) by cc.newcastle.edu.au (PMDF V5.1-12 #U2933) with SMTP id <01J67YU0Z2FG90MZK6@cc.newcastle.edu.au> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 12:48:56 +1100 Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 12:54:00 +1100 From: Tricia Ostwald Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays In-reply-to: X-Sender: phpmo@cc.newcastle.edu.au (Unverified) To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <3.0.1.32.19990106125400.007efb90@cc.newcastle.edu.au> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <36927675.7B109C2B@best.com> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Tricia Ostwald >-Poster: The Purple Elephant > >Just to continue briefly off topic in the vague hope it might shed some >light on the rib removal thing, but anaesthetic (aside from drinking >yourself silly) was not really much used until the later Victorian times, >when they started using ether. The first use of ether was in 1846, in Boston. Which has nothing whatsoever to do with costuming - but the book I just looked it up in "Mould's Medical Anecdotes" 1996, has a cute little picture of Mary Tudor laying hands on a boy's neck to cure him of the "Queen's Evil" on Page 1, and a similar picture of Edward the Confessor on Page 2. And I thought I didn't have any costume books at work :-) Trish Dr P. M. Ostwald Senior Medical Physicist Department of Medical Physics Newcastle Mater Hospital, Australia ph: Int+ 61 2 49211172 FAX: Int+ 61 2 49211129 _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 22:38:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA06888 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 22:38:21 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA00284; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 20:46:22 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA12559 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 20:44:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA12549 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 20:44:03 -0700 (MST) From: Tsrra@aol.com Received: from Tsrra@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id CCHLa03538 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 22:43:10 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <8d1ebbf8.3692dbce@aol.com> Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 22:43:10 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: re: HELP Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 58 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Tsrra@aol.com In a message dated 99-01-05 16:18:14 EST, you write: << <<<< Would a man (young man) wear a shirt of flax about 1000 years ago >> Well, he wouldn't wear a shirt of flax, but he probably had one of linen.>> Maybe this is how all those 10 foot rules come about -- making broad assumptions about things. He *might* have worn a linen shirt 1000 years ago, *if* he lived in a smallish area of Europe: not if he lived in Africa, North or South America, most of Asia or Australia. >> True, but I never claimed to be a researcher. The point I was making is that flax is not the fabric. TS Ohara _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 23:47:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA07153 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 23:47:13 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA05758; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 21:54:29 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA20104 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 21:52:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.erols.com (smtp2.erols.com [207.172.3.235]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA20092 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 21:52:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from s0peladn (207-172-61-60.s60.tnt1.rcm.erols.com [207.172.61.60]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA08459 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 23:55:42 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00a101be3930$5d858f00$3c3daccf@s0peladn> From: "Penny E. Ladnier" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Rib removal Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 23:52:27 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Penny E. Ladnier" Rib removal again...maybe a topic for FAQ (hint, hint) Later...Penny http://www.costumegallery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 23:57:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA07192 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 23:57:29 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA06318; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 22:04:24 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA21075 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 22:02:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA21069 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 22:02:10 -0700 (MST) From: MissMela@aol.com Received: from MissMela@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 7DMZa04317 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 00:00:10 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <8320d494.3692edda@aol.com> Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 00:00:10 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Major Design Project -- Need sources! Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 205 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MissMela@aol.com Jeannie, you need a sewing contractor. Look in the business to business phone book and there should be listings. At least there are in CA. If not, contact any local manufacturer of clothing and ask for a contracting source. Most sewing contractors bid off of a sample. They will often make up the sample as per your sketch, charging a higher fee for this and then bid the cost for the multiples after they have "test driven" the pattern. Some want a pattern of the garment, some a marker, it depends. I use them on the West coast a lot. If you get to a point that you want it done out of state, let me know and I'll look up my contracting book. (There is a very expensive book that comes out every other year or so that lists sewing contractors and basically what type of garments and price range they do) I do not have an updated one, but on my next weekly trek into the garment district, I could get the info for you. Hope this helps a little. Mela _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 00:10:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA07903 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 00:10:21 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA07501; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 22:18:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA22377 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 22:16:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from centum.utulsa.edu (centum.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.199]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id WAA22365 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 22:16:09 -0700 (MST) Received: by centum.utulsa.edu; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 23:18:44 -0600 Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 23:18:44 -0600 From: "I. Marc Carlson" To: mail2news-19990105-rec.org.sca@anon.lcs.mit.edu, sca-arts@raven.cc.ukans.edu, ANSTEORRA@ANSTEORRA.ORG, H-COSTUME@indra.com Message-Id: <990105231844.154b2b@centum.utulsa.edu> Subject: H-COST: Honorable Company of Cordwainers site Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "I. Marc Carlson" For those who are interested in shoemaking, there is a (unofficial as yet) web site for the Honorable Company of Cordwainers at "http://www.bootmaker.com/hcc.htm". Also there is the Chrispin Coloquy, a web-based forum for those who want to discuss things about shoemaking. Please pass this information on to those who might also be interested. Marc Carlson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 00:48:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA08042 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 00:48:29 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA09526; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 22:55:58 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA25698 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 22:53:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from wilma.widomaker.com (smtp@wilma.widomaker.com [204.17.220.5]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA25690 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 22:53:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.96.178.6] by wilma.widomaker.com with smtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for h-costume@indra.com id 0zxluY-0004vS-00; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 00:53:43 -0500 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19990106055227.0070f150@mail.widomaker.com> X-Sender: rcarnegie@mail.widomaker.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 00:52:27 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Ron Carnegie Subject: Re: H-COST: SCA Costuming Rules? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Ron Carnegie At 03:26 PM 1/5/99 -0600, you wrote: > >On Point one. Historic reenactment is a hobby, and like most >semi-elabotea hobbies, require some sort of monetary commitment. Actually for quite a few, it is an occupation. Cheers, Ron Carnegie rcarnegie@widomaker.com ************************************************* "The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground walked other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow." G.M. Trevelyan ************************************************* _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 01:14:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA08357 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 01:14:55 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA11674; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 23:22:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA27826 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 23:20:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from wilma.widomaker.com (smtp@wilma.widomaker.com [204.17.220.5]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA27820 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 23:20:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.96.178.6] by wilma.widomaker.com with smtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for h-costume@indra.com id 0zxmKP-0005HZ-00; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 01:20:25 -0500 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19990106061909.00728854@mail.widomaker.com> X-Sender: rcarnegie@mail.widomaker.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 01:19:09 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Ron Carnegie Subject: Re: H-COST: Shakespeare In Love Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Ron Carnegie At 05:52 PM 1/5/99 CST, you wrote: > >-Poster: robingoodfellow4@juno.com (Anne Louise Bannon) > >I loved this film as well. What a delight, although my historian spouse >spent a fair amount of time griping that the Virginia colonies weren't >around until after 1600 something or other. Also, he said tobacco wasn't >an interest until well after that. > >Has anybody got the correct dates on the establishment of the Virginia >colony? > >Secondly, I do have a couple costume questions. There seemed to be >buttoning (and a lot of *un* buttonning) of doublets. Is that accurate? >And shouldn't Will have been wearing a jerkin under his doublet? > >Anne B. >robingoodfellow4@juno.com >Nobody gets out of here without a doggie bag > Depends on what you mean by Virginia. The name comes from the Virginia Company, who held the original Corporate charter to the colony. The name, given by Sir Walter Raleigh in honour of the Virgin Queen a huge area of North America, between New France and the Spanish Territory of Florida. The first settlment in Virginia (by the English) was at Roanoke in 1584, and failed after two years. The tobacco habit apparently found it's way into Europe through Portugal and Spain in the early mid 16th century, by way of those stationed in the New World. By the mid century, dried tobacco was being shipped to Europe, soon after the seeds, which quicly led to the plant being grown as a medicinal herb. There are a number of references to tobacco in England during the reign of the Queen. Now the first successful English settlement here was Jamestown in 1607, after the death of Elizabeth. Tobacco as we are familiar with it is NOT native to Virginia, though there is a wild tobacco that grows here. The tobacco smoked in Europe was imported into the colony by Pocohontas' husband, John Rolfe as a possible way for the colony to turn a profit. It was successful. I do not know what you are referring to with the unbuttoning and buttoning of the doublet. There should be two upper body garments a doublet and something else, be it a cassock, cap, cloak, coat, jerkin, etc. The Jerkin however seems to be worn over the doublet far more oft then under it. Cheers, Ron Carnegie rcarnegie@widomaker.com ************************************************* "The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground walked other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow." G.M. Trevelyan ************************************************* _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 01:33:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA08420 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 01:33:57 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA12335; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 23:40:59 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA29077 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 23:38:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from hummer.tci.net (hummer.TCI.NET [209.19.4.19]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA29069 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 23:38:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from 59303-a (c59303-a.mckiny1.tx.home.com [24.4.53.172]) by hummer.tci.net with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2232.9) id YRF0RWAM; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 23:37:54 -0700 Message-ID: <009501be3941$cb943da0$ac350418@59303-a.plano1.tx.home.com> From: "Franchesca Havas" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Shakespeare In Love Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 00:56:48 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Franchesca Havas" Image ref: (open the box of this email to see the whole address in one line) http://www.miramax.com:8888/mm_front/owa/mp.entryPoint?action=1&midStr=742 select Joseph Finnes JPEG 39 KB Photograph by Laurie Sparham You can see the shirt and the item in question. Sincerely, Ches aka Chiara Francesca Steward of Coronation XL http://www.io.com/~ches/coronation99 -----Original Message----- From: Ron Carnegie To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wednesday, January 06, 1999 12:11 AM Subject: Re: H-COST: Shakespeare In Love : :-Poster: Ron Carnegie : :At 05:52 PM 1/5/99 CST, you wrote: :> :>-Poster: robingoodfellow4@juno.com (Anne Louise Bannon) :> :>I loved this film as well. What a delight, although my historian spouse :>spent a fair amount of time griping that the Virginia colonies weren't :>around until after 1600 something or other. Also, he said tobacco wasn't :>an interest until well after that. :> :>Has anybody got the correct dates on the establishment of the Virginia :>colony? :> :>Secondly, I do have a couple costume questions. There seemed to be :>buttoning (and a lot of *un* buttonning) of doublets. Is that accurate? :>And shouldn't Will have been wearing a jerkin under his doublet? :> :>Anne B. :>robingoodfellow4@juno.com :>Nobody gets out of here without a doggie bag :> : Depends on what you mean by Virginia. The name comes from the :Virginia Company, who held the original Corporate charter to the colony. :The name, given by Sir Walter Raleigh in honour of the Virgin Queen a huge :area of North America, between New France and the Spanish Territory of :Florida. The first settlment in Virginia (by the English) was at Roanoke in :1584, and failed after two years. : : The tobacco habit apparently found it's way into Europe through :Portugal and Spain in the early mid 16th century, by way of those stationed :in the New World. By the mid century, dried tobacco was being shipped to :Europe, soon after the seeds, which quicly led to the plant being grown as a :medicinal herb. : : There are a number of references to tobacco in England during the :reign of the Queen. : : Now the first successful English settlement here was Jamestown in :1607, after the death of Elizabeth. : Tobacco as we are familiar with it is NOT native to Virginia, though there :is a wild tobacco that grows here. The tobacco smoked in Europe was :imported into the colony by Pocohontas' husband, John Rolfe as a possible :way for the colony to turn a profit. It was successful. : : I do not know what you are referring to with the unbuttoning and :buttoning of the doublet. There should be two upper body garments a doublet :and something else, be it a cassock, cap, cloak, coat, jerkin, etc. The :Jerkin however seems to be worn over the doublet far more oft then under it. : :Cheers, :Ron Carnegie :rcarnegie@widomaker.com : ************************************************* : "The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that : once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground walked : other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking : their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now : all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we : ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow." : G.M. Trevelyan : ************************************************* : : _________________________________________________________________ : To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com : with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME : _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 01:44:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA08457 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 01:44:39 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAB12750; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 23:52:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA29768 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 23:50:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from nu.binary.net (root@nu.binary.net [12.13.120.25]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA29760 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 23:50:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from dialup.binary.net (lnk1-ppp-11.binary.net [207.140.121.11]) by nu.binary.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id AAA24045 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 00:50:26 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990106003958.006feaa8@binary.net> X-Sender: costumrs@binary.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 00:39:58 -0600 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger Subject: H-COST: Re: corsets In-Reply-To: <199901051820.LAA27098@indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger >- -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com: >Tight lacing definitely has an effect on one's breathing and heart >function. Even a moderately laced corset should never be suddenly >decompressed (like the sword swipe lace cutting) unless the person is >actually in cardiac arrest. Otherwise you may *cause* cardiac arrest. Also, one should NEVER cut corset laces if someone is choking. The sharp intake of air will cause the person to aspirate the offending object further. Do the Heimlich with the corset in place. I got this from someone who has been there, done that. Sandy _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 05:01:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA14784 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 05:01:51 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id DAA20536; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 03:09:47 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id DAA10587 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 03:07:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from morgoth.tuug.org (root@morgoth.tuug.org [130.232.72.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id DAA10582 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 03:07:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from delenn.yok.utu.fi ([130.232.128.27] HELO delenn.yok.utu.fi ident: NO-IDENT-SERVICE [port 5124]) by tuug.org with SMTP id <40815-295>; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 12:07:17 +0200 From: "Ella Lynoure Rajamaki" Organization: Lyninine Federation To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 12:07:33 +2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: 10' Rule Priority: normal In-reply-to: <199901051714.JAA28016@zeus.directcon.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Message-Id: <19990106100717Z40815-295+59@tuug.org> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Ella Lynoure Rajamaki" On 5 Jan 99, at 9:14, Margo Anderson wrote: > Perhaps I should call it a guideline rather than a rule. At any rate, > telling newcomers that it's okay to do bad work or use bad materials > because it'll look okay from ten feet away is doing them a diservice. Why > not help them get started at a reasonable level? It's just not that much > harder. I think it's not very easy to do bad work and use bad materials and still get a costume that looks good from 3m (10'). I mean one can spot errors in cut from that distance, grommets, (most) artificial fibres instead of silk and so on from that distance. From 60cm (2', about one's arms length) one can see almost every small mistake, perhaps even whether it's handsewn or not (and certainly whether embroidery was hand or machine made). So what is reasonable level and what are good ways to help newcomers to achieve that? I think the point at first was that not everybody has money for the right materials (at least here ok quality linen costs about $11 per metre) or time for handsewing. (I hope at least someone understood my lousy English this time.) -- -------(c) 1999--------------* lynoure@tuug.org * Ella Lynoure Rajamaki--------* http://www.tuug.org/~lynoure * _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 08:21:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA15506 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:21:56 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id GAA25476; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 06:30:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id GAA16349 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 06:27:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id GAA16339 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 06:27:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.217.218.42] (ell58.acadia.net [205.217.218.42]) by p2.acadia.net (8.8.5/8.8.6) with SMTP id IAA05075 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:27:42 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:27:42 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: Shakespeare/anachronisms Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) <> The first permanent English settlement in North America was made in Virginia, at Jamestown, where the first group of settlers landed in May of 1607. The popularity of tobacco came about 10 years later. <> The majority of doublets were buttoned up the front. Jerkins, when worn, were worn over sleeved doublets. Deborah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 08:43:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA15614 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:43:11 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id GAA26562; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 06:51:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id GAA17782 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 06:49:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.tds.net (mail.tds.net [204.246.1.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id GAA17773 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 06:49:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from nash.tds.net (latnusr0-a05.nash.tds.net [207.0.84.133]) by mail.tds.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA26805 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 07:49:10 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <369369D1.8D35C87C@nash.tds.net> Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 07:49:05 -0600 From: Kent & Kat Organization: Oak, Ash, and Thorn X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 10' Rule References: <19990106100717Z40815-295+59@tuug.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kent & Kat Ella Lynoure Rajamaki wrote: > > I think it's not very easy to do bad work and use bad materials > and still get a costume that looks good from 3m (10'). I mean > one can spot errors in cut from that distance, grommets, > (most) artificial fibres instead of silk and so on from that > distance. From 60cm (2', about one's arms length) one can > see almost every small mistake, perhaps even whether it's > handsewn or not (and certainly whether embroidery was > hand or machine made). > > So what is reasonable level and what are good ways to help > newcomers to achieve that? I think the point at first was that > not everybody has money for the right materials (at least here > ok quality linen costs about $11 per metre) or time for > handsewing. I always recommend using a coarse weave or linen look cotton, cutting out a t-tunic (or t-tunic dress), seaming the interior seams with the machine as well as the hem and then handsewing the hems. Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 08:45:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA15629 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:45:46 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id GAA26698; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 06:54:22 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id GAA18087 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 06:51:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [207.172.3.234]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id GAA18077 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 06:51:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from s0peladn (207-172-62-102.s102.tnt2.rcm.erols.com [207.172.62.102]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA11258 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:51:52 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000101be397b$c0e2c400$663eaccf@s0peladn> From: "Penny E. Ladnier" To: "costume newsgroup" Subject: H-COST: Jamestown Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:52:02 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Penny E. Ladnier" There is a wonderful article in Preservation magazine, July/August 1998 about Jamestown history and excavations called, "Jamestown Revisited". The subtitle: An ongoing dig and rediscovered papers are reprompting a reassessment as the first permanent English settlement approaches its 400th anniversary. The article also discusses the importance of tabacco for the area. Later...Penny http://www.costumegallery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 09:44:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA15875 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 09:44:04 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA29935; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 07:52:44 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA23742 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 07:50:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from m16.boston.juno.com (m16.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.192]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA23733; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 07:50:07 -0700 (MST) Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m16.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id DYAPUZKG; Wed, 06 Jan 1999 09:49:40 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Shakespeare/anachronisms Message-ID: <19990106.063434.4791.2.cley@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-15,21-25 From: cley@juno.com (cynthia j ley) Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 09:49:40 EST Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: cley@juno.com (cynthia j ley) On Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:27:42 -0500 pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) writes: > >-Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) > ><Virginia >colony?>> > >The first permanent English settlement in North America was made in >Virginia, at Jamestown, where the first group of settlers landed in >May of >1607. The popularity of tobacco came about 10 years later. Tobacco was being advertised in England much earlier though. The British West Indies Company comissioned a Gentleman of the Chapel Royal, Thomas Weelkes, to write them a jingle in the popular madrigal-esque style of the day. The result is "Come Sirrah, Jack Ho!," published in his AYRES OR PHANTASIK SPIRITS, 1608. if any wish more information on this, please contact me privately at Cley@juno.com. Arlys ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 10:24:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA16039 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 10:24:00 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA03322; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:33:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA29797 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:31:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.rdc1.nj.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.nj.home.com [24.3.128.66]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA29774 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:30:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from CC1010062-A.avnl1.nj.home.com ([24.3.134.203]) by mail.rdc1.nj.home.com (InterMail v4.0 201-221-107) with SMTP id <19990106153056.BNMX2583.mail.rdc1.nj.home.com@CC1010062-A.avnl1.nj.home.com> for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 07:30:56 -0800 Message-ID: <00bb01be398a$174aca00$cb860318@CC1010062-A.avnl1.nj.home.com> From: "Kyna Grannd" To: Subject: H-COST: Flax Linen was re: HELP Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 10:34:46 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Kyna Grannd" Ok, I admit to missing almost all this thread, but I'm a bit confused. I've often seen references to linen made of flax (the stalk) as well as other parts of the plant. I could be wrong here. This is from the Textile Dictionary: Flax Fibre: Weave: Characteristics: This fibre is taken from the stalk of the Linum usitaatissimum plant. It is a long, smooth fibre and is cylindrical in shape. It's length varies from 6 to 40 inches but on average is between 15 and 25 inches. It's colour is usually off-white or tan and due to it's natural wax content, flax has excellent luster. It is considered to be the strongest of the vegetable fibres and is highly absorbent, allowing moisture to evaporate with speed. It conducts heat well and can be readily boiled. It's washability is great, however, it has poor elasticity and does not easily return to it's original shape after creasing. Uses: Apparel fabric. When processed into fabric it is called linen. It is also used for tablecloths, napkins, doilies, twine, aprons, fishing tackle, and nets. Doesn't it make sense then that if 100% linen was available and used...so was flax linen?? just curious. Suz -----Original Message----- From: Tsrra@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tuesday, January 05, 1999 10:45 PM Subject: Re: H-COST: re: HELP > >-Poster: Tsrra@aol.com > >In a message dated 99-01-05 16:18:14 EST, you write: > ><< <<<< Would a man (young man) wear a shirt of flax about 1000 years ago >> > > Well, he wouldn't wear a shirt of flax, but he probably had one of linen.>> > > Maybe this is how all those 10 foot rules come about -- making broad > assumptions about things. > > He *might* have worn a linen shirt 1000 years ago, *if* he lived in a > smallish area of Europe: not if he lived in Africa, North or South America, > most of Asia or Australia. >> > >True, but I never claimed to be a researcher. The point I was making is that >flax is not the fabric. > >TS Ohara > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 10:25:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA16046 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 10:25:53 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA03502; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:35:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA00174 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:32:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtpgate.uvm.edu (smtpgate.uvm.edu [132.198.101.121]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA00152 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:32:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from 132.198.103.242 (132.198.103.242) by smtpgate.uvm.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.F7169040@smtpgate.uvm.edu>; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 10:33:14 -0800 Message-ID: <3693823B.528B@uvm.edu> Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 10:33:23 -0500 From: Hope Greenberg X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Shakespeare In Love References: <2.2.32.19990106061909.00728854@mail.widomaker.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Hope Greenberg > >-Poster: robingoodfellow4@juno.com (Anne Louise Bannon) > >I loved this film as well. What a delight, although my historian spouse > >spent a fair amount of time griping that the Virginia colonies weren't > >around until after 1600 something or other. Also, he said tobacco wasn't > >an interest until well after that. Our library lists 72 entries in the category: America--Early Accounts to 1600. Many are Spanish accounts, of course, but Richard Hakluyt and John Brereton both have plenty to say, in English, about theirs' and others' voyages to the new world and published before 1600. As for tobacco, it was certainly part of pre-1600 culture as evidenced by the songs and poems of which it was the topic. For example, Sir John Davies' "Of Tobacco" of 1586 as well as my personal favorite, a delightful tune by Michael East titled "O, Metaphysical Tobacco" published in his second book of madrigals in 1606. These and several others extolling tobacco's virtues can be found at: http://swamp.merriweb.com.au/books/tobacco/tobacco.html Oh yes, and to bring this back to topic: a c1680 poem by Robert Herrick titled "The Tobacconist" (which at this period refers to someone who smokes, not someone who sells) begins with the line: Know you the garb? thus I accost you, what? An early referral to some sort of smoking jacket do you think? ;-) - Hope G. ------------ hope.greenberg@uvm.edu, U of Vermont, http://www.uvm.edu/~hag _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 10:30:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA16068 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 10:30:12 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA03841; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:39:49 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA00962 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:37:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from artemis.chass.utoronto.ca (artemis.chass.utoronto.ca [128.100.160.6]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA00914 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:37:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from dsc (ppp25.chass.utoronto.ca [128.100.160.145]) by artemis.chass.utoronto.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA08655 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 10:38:16 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <005c01be398a$c55366c0$91a06480@dsc> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: Subject: H-COST: Shakespeare in Love Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 10:39:36 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Greetings! >I loved this film as well. What a delight, although my historian spouse >spent a fair amount of time griping that the Virginia colonies weren't >around until after 1600 something or other. Also, he said tobacco wasn't >an interest until well after that. > >Has anybody got the correct dates on the establishment of the Virginia >colony? Jamestown, I believe, was founded in 1608, if I recall correctly, although there was an unsuccessful colony before that in what would later be known as the Carolinas. However, "Virginia" had been known and explored before that--hence the name, after Queen Elizabeth. The period portrayed in the movie would be mid-1590s, I believe. So they were pushing it a bit with an actual settled colony, but not with knowledge of the land. As for tobacco, there's this lovely English madrigal called "Come, Sirrah Jack, ho!" by Thomas Weelkes, which is about the tobacco craze. It was published in 1608, and by the familiarity demonstrated in the song, I believe people must have been using it before that time. My copy of _Daily Life in Elizabethan England_ says that tobacco was first brought to England during Elizabeth's reign and was common in alehouses. Susan Carroll-Clark _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 10:45:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA16118 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 10:45:31 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA05109; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:54:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA03670 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:52:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA03664 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:52:07 -0700 (MST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id OTDWa04297 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 10:51:21 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 10:51:21 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Shakespeare In Love Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 1/6/99 1:21:09 AM Eastern Standard Time, rcarnegie@widomaker.com writes: << The first settlment in Virginia (by the English) was at Roanoke in 1584, and failed after two years. >> Yes...the "Lost Colony" which....if it weren't lost....would be on the Outer Banks of NC. It was all Virginia then...in fact the 1st English child born in America to Eleanor Dare was christened Virginia. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 10:48:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA16131 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 10:48:15 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA05420; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:57:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA04401 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:55:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA04350 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:55:11 -0700 (MST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id ABWRa03211 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 10:54:36 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <6ff76079.3693873c@aol.com> Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 10:54:36 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Shakespeare/anachronisms Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 1/6/99 8:28:34 AM Eastern Standard Time, pulliam@acadia.net writes: << <> The majority of doublets were buttoned up the front. Jerkins, when worn, were worn over sleeved doublets. >> Of course the doublet should be laced at the waist to the hose....no? This makes the "trunk hose and just a shirt" look very suspect to me. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 10:52:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA16149 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 10:52:13 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA05908; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 09:02:00 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA05245 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:59:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA05219 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:59:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.217.218.42] (ell156.acadia.net [205.217.218.211]) by p2.acadia.net (8.8.5/8.8.6) with SMTP id KAA25872 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 10:59:18 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 10:59:18 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: Shakespeare/anachronisms Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) <> <> There's no doubt about that. However, the original question was about the anachronisms in the movie Shakespeare in Love, which is dated 1593. At that point, there were no permanent settlements in Virginia, and therefore no tobacco plantations. Therefore, Viola's husband's reference to the success of his tobacco plantations is an anachronism. Back to historic costuming, I hope. Deborah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 10:55:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA16167 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 10:55:47 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA06327; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 09:04:57 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA05996 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 09:02:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from m23.boston.juno.com (m23.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.188]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA05984 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 09:02:19 -0700 (MST) From: seamstrix@juno.com Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m23.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id DYATZB9H; Wed, 06 Jan 1999 11:01:56 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 09:48:48 -0600 Subject: H-COST: Re: HELP Message-ID: <19990106.095015.25342.15.seamstrix@juno.com> References: <00bb01be398a$174aca00$cb860318@cc1010062-a.avnl1.nj.home.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 8-10,16-19 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: seamstrix@juno.com I think that we are having some terminology problems here people! Linen in today's usage is made from the fibers of the stalk of the flax plant. It's made from the fibers of the stalk because that's basically all flax is, stalk. It is a grass with few leaves and an insignificant root system. By the time the flax is ready to harvest, it's just stalk. In my salad days as a re-enactor I did flax processing from dried stalk to spun thread on a regular basis. the only part of the process I haven't directly done is the retting (soaking in water to help the extraneous bit decay). In other periods linen could apparently refer to any fabric made with long plant fibers such as hemp, nettles, and ramie. Today those fibers are generally called by their individual names and the term linen reserved for fabric made from flax. If an inferior grade of flax fiber is used you would get tow cloth which was generally used for clothing for the very poor or industrial uses such as sacking. Karen _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 11:17:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA16243 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 11:17:22 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA08675; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 09:26:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA10641 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 09:24:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.pacifier.com (root@smtp.pacifier.com [199.2.117.96]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA10623 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 09:24:11 -0700 (MST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: from grendal2 (ip134.van17.pacifier.com [216.65.137.134]) by smtp.pacifier.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA01427 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:24:08 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901061624.IAA01427@smtp.pacifier.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:23:25 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: 10' Rule Priority: normal In-reply-to: <990105104825.1f6480@centum.utulsa.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > Ma'am, while I would personally prefer a two-foot, or even a two-millimeter > rule, I am content to encourage a ten-foot rule for accuracy since, to judge > from what I have seen at various things (including, but not limited to, SCA > and Faires) even -that-'s exceeding some people's levels of interest and > willingness. I don't mean to criticize those people in those venues who are > doing some darned good work. I'm just saying that I find the "ten foot rule", > a good, non-threatening, basic standard to encourage when dealing with people > or places that have no other rigidly held standards. I agree with that! I've also found that when people first start out (and sometimes for a long time after) they may have all the research in hand, but not know how to execute it. I once was asked to step into a blowup after a costume contest judging. Unfortunately, the judges had not handled it especially well (combined with a lack of understanding on the part of the contestant, to be fair all the way around.) The contestant had been livid because the judges had not marked her costume very highly, especially in the "appearance of appropriate undergarments" portion. The contestant had entered an Elizabethan in the Full Court contest. She had all sorts of lovely documentation (most of it period quotes as opposed to pictures). She had documented her farthingale from Norah Waugh's Corsets and Crinolines book. However, somehow she had missed the idea that the farthingale was a *boned* garment. She kept pointing to her nylon tube slip and saying "I am too wearing a farthingale!" Inexperienced people often don't know what they are seeing in the research they have in their hands. They need gentle guidance to do so. If letting them do their best efforts only results in looking acceptable at 10' until they get the hang of it isn't good enough, I suspect that they could never have the nerve to keep trying. I don't think any of us starts perfect. Shoot, I had been costuming since I was old enough to hold a needle (about 3 year old, my family tells me), but it wasn't until I joined the SCA and found out about wonderful books like Francois Boucher's 20,000 years of fashion and Milia Davenport's costume book that I was able to "take off" in terms of my research. Without the gentle guidance of the group (any group), I would have stuck with the ones I had found at the library and the local book stores: Iris Brookes, Ruth Wilcox, Gorsline, and Selbie's _Anatomy of Costume_. (I call these "survey books". Good for getting a basic idea of the shape, but look in art books for their sources and try to find out from other sources how they were really made.) Now I'm doing things like going to museums to do original research. There's a big difference between where I am now and where I started. It is due to the guidance and, later, mental stimulation of all the groups I've been in contact with since then. But it had to start somewhere! Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 11:17:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA16247 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 11:17:42 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA08733; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 09:27:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA10672 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 09:24:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.pacifier.com (root@smtp.pacifier.com [199.2.117.96]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA10653 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 09:24:17 -0700 (MST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: from grendal2 (ip134.van17.pacifier.com [216.65.137.134]) by smtp.pacifier.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA02788 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:24:15 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901061624.IAA02788@smtp.pacifier.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:23:25 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: 10' Rule Priority: normal In-reply-to: <36925569.9640E596@serv.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > If I had time to pull the documentation together and write the paper in three > days, I would enter it in the Court Garb contest this weekend at Coronation / > Twelth Night. Do it anyway and bring the books. Although we judges would prefer to have documentation a little better organized than that, in the catagory you would be (probably the lower level intermediate since since I don't remember you winning one of the contests before), you might be best of that class. Documentation *is* important. However, good workmanship is also important. The contest may also help guide you in areas where you may not realized you didn't quite catch the point (which I doubt from what you write, but I've heard a lot of people talk a good story but then miss the point. For example, one woman told me all about her wonderful Elizabethan costume. She told me all the undergarments she was wearing. It sounded good. However, her "farthingale" was a nylon tube slip. She had missed the point about the farthingale being a boned garment.) It would also give you a good idea of what to expect in future years, if you haven't entered in the past. (Please don't be insulted that I don't remember if you have/haven't entered. I barely remember what I've seen the day before, since I've been judging these things for 13 years and see so many costumes each time. But then, I sometimes forget now what I wore the last event. They all seem to blurrrrrrrrrr.) > I am currently planning an Italian Renn, a Tudor, and an Elizabethan. > For the the next three annual costume contests. This should keep > me busy until 2002. heh. Go for it!!!!! Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 11:17:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA16253 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 11:17:52 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA08696; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 09:26:59 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA10643 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 09:24:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.pacifier.com (root@smtp.pacifier.com [199.2.117.96]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA10632 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 09:24:12 -0700 (MST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: from grendal2 (ip134.van17.pacifier.com [216.65.137.134]) by smtp.pacifier.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA28900 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:24:10 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901061624.IAA28900@smtp.pacifier.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:23:25 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays Priority: normal In-reply-to: <36925029.D4CBB17B@best.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > But did they remove ribs in the 19th century or earlier? I don't know much > about medical history. But I believe that in the 1940s doctors were aware of how > to prevent infection (formerly a major cause of post-surgical death) by keeping > all tools, etc. free of bacteria. They also may have had better surgical > techniques than in the 19th century. I know that there was a lot of surgery going on of various sorts from very early (such as Egyptian times.) In the 19th Century there were many techniques being practiced. I have never seen any documentation for rib removal prior to the mid 19th C. From what I know of corsetry, I doubt that there would have been any reason for it. (Except in Marie d'Medici's court, or was it Catherine, where they were aiming for a 15" waist. That was an anomaly of the time period though, not a world wide phenomenon, and I sincerely doubt anyone considered rib removal at that point.) I think by the 1940s they had sulfa drugs > (which are not strictly speaking antibiotics but which combat infections; when I > was a child people allergic to penicillin were given sulfa drugs). There have been various things used to fight wound infection, including Basilica powder. I am currently short on time to do the research or I could tell you more explicitly. > There is also a difference between whether a doctor will perform a serious, even > potentially fatal operation in the hope of saving the life of someone who would > probably die without it, and whether the doctor would perform the same operation > for purely cosmetic reasons. There's a big difference between a mainstream doctor (who would agree with you as I do) and the kinds of charlatans and quacks who were allowed to practice in the 19th Century. I have been shocked over the years about how socalled "doctors" will put their normal scruples aside for money, even now. There are a whole host of mutilations (not necessarily voluntary) which have been done in the name of fashion: scarrification, tatoos, body piercing (to name some currently popular ones.) Circumcision (if you think it's really for medical purposes, think again. This is a *very* popular procedure and it is done more for "look alike" reasons than any other. I've finally stopped crying when I have to do one, but I still try to talk the parents out of it.) Female "circumcision" (which is *still* being practiced in some areas of the world, without anaesthesia, without antibiotics and without proper sterile technique). Castration. Neck elongation. Lip insertions. Flat head Indians (you didn't think that was a genetic head shape, do you?) Etc. Etc. Etc. Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 11:17:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA16252 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 11:17:52 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA08719; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 09:27:02 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA10669 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 09:24:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.pacifier.com (root@smtp.pacifier.com [199.2.117.96]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA10644 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 09:24:15 -0700 (MST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: from grendal2 (ip134.van17.pacifier.com [216.65.137.134]) by smtp.pacifier.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA23475 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:24:13 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901061624.IAA23475@smtp.pacifier.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:23:25 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: skeletons and stays Priority: normal In-reply-to: <7df7a5af.369272a4@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > I just received my show catalog for the Washington Antiques Show. Claudia > Kidwell, curator at National Museum of American History, has an excellent > article and drawings that explain stays, posture, women's silhouette of the > late 18th century. The show catalog is $10.00 -- a real value for the 5 > articles and pictures of the special exhibition of 18th century garments from > Mary Doerings private collection. Do you have an address where we can write to get one of these? (Pleading look is in eye, as I would love to have this but live in the "other" Washington.) Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 11:53:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA16405 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 11:53:18 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA12909; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 10:02:46 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA19899 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 10:00:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA19875 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 10:00:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip157.an5-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.16.157]) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA23093 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 09:00:01 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3693892B.E7EE26A1@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 12:02:53 -0400 From: Laurel Wilson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03C-NSCP (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Flax Linen was re: HELP References: <00bb01be398a$174aca00$cb860318@CC1010062-A.avnl1.nj.home.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Laurel Wilson Somehow a lot of confusion seems to have come up on this thread about the flax/linen issue. Flax is *never* the name of a cloth. Flax is a bast plant; from its fibers, we make the cloth called linen. However, linen can also be made from, and in ancient and medieval times often was made from, the hemp plant. Thus there can be flaxen linen and hempen linen, which is probably coarser than flaxen linen; in medieval England, there was also something called 'harden' linen, which was made from the nubbly bits left over after the various preparatory processes (hackling, beating, combing, etc.) and was apparently extremely coarse. In medieval English documents, whether in English, French, or Latin, it is difficult to tell which kind of linen is being referred to; there is at least one scholar, Anne F. Sutton, who believes that most ordinary linen made in England was hempen linen, and I am inclined to agree. There are many Latin references to 'tela de canabo,' which literally means woven hemp, and presumably means hempen linen, since the English were not producing canvas in the Middle Ages--they imported it all. I hope this helps... Lauri _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 11:53:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA16409 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 11:53:46 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA13047; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 10:03:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA17032 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 09:49:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA17020 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 09:49:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA22377 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:49:03 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36939419.520BBF2F@serv.net> Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 08:49:29 -0800 From: Merouda the True X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 10' Rule References: <199901061624.IAA02788@smtp.pacifier.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Merouda the True > Do it anyway and bring the books. Although we judges would prefer to > have documentation a little better organized than that, in the > catagory you would be in [snip], you > might be best of that class. Hmmm, this feels so overwhelming. I keep vacillating. Mainly because I don't want to turn in a shoddy research paper any more than a shoddy costume. > (Please don't be insulted that I > don't remember if you have/haven't entered. No worries. :) I haven't entered before. This would be my first. Merouda the dizzy -- Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 12:04:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA16453 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 12:04:39 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA14098; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 10:12:11 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA21881 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 10:09:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from epicurus.miningco.com (epicurus.miningco.com [207.122.100.23]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id KAA21786 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 10:09:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from LISA [209.162.71.46] by epicurus.miningco.com (AltaVista Mail V2.0/2.0 BL23 listener) id 0000_00fc_3693_a7b0_f3eb; Wed, 06 Jan 1999 13:13:04 -0500 Message-Id: <4.1.19990106081142.00977280@mail.tmsonline.com> X-Sender: reenactment@mail.miningco.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 09:09:44 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lisa Scovel Subject: Re: H-COST: Shakespeare In Love In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19990106061909.00728854@mail.widomaker.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lisa Scovel At 01:19 AM 1/6/99 -0500, you wrote: > The tobacco habit apparently found it's way into Europe through >Portugal and Spain in the early mid 16th century, by way of those stationed >in the New World. By the mid century, dried tobacco was being shipped to >Europe, soon after the seeds, which quicly led to the plant being grown as a >medicinal herb. Yes, actually, my 11th great-grandfather (geneaology is another hobby of mine) was Sir Richard Hawkins (of defeating the Spanish Armada fame) and according to some accounts I have read, he is credited with bringing tobacco to Europe from the New World. Of course, he was only born in 1560, so perhaps not. Perhaps it was his father, Sir John Hawkins, born in 1532? Or perhaps this is just family legend? One line of my tree quite literally traces its roots back to Adam & Eve... :) *********************** lisa scovel historical reenactment guide the mining co. http://reenactment.miningco.com "Learning from history is never a one-way process. To learn about the present in terms of the past means also to learn about the past in the light of the present. The function of history is to promote a profounder understanding of both past and present through the interrelation between them." Edward Hallett Carr _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 12:37:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA16558 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 12:37:27 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA18351; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 10:46:46 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA29227 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 10:44:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.73]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA29211 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 10:44:08 -0700 (MST) From: CONNECT@aol.com Received: from CONNECT@aol.com by imo29.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id VTMDa01221 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 12:43:11 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <2e41ae6c.3693a0af@aol.com> Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 12:43:11 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Shakespeare In Love Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 189 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: CONNECT@aol.com In a message dated 1/5/99 8:22:37 PM, robingoodfellow4@juno.com writes: <> My understanding of a jerkin is that it's a sleeveless doublet worn over a doubtlet. Also, more often than not, a jerkin was made of leather--there were lots of fancy fabric jerkins made as well. That's why I say more often than not. If you're looking for pictures of doublets and jerkins, you might want to see Roy Strong's The English Icon: Elizabethan and Jacobean Portraiture. You should be able to get it on inter-library loan at your local public library. That's where I go garb idea shopping. :) Yours, Pattie Rayl _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 12:55:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA16642 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 12:55:16 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA20569; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 11:04:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA03350 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 11:00:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from arl-img-12.compuserve.com (arl-img-12.compuserve.com [149.174.217.142]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA03326 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 11:00:14 -0700 (MST) Received: (from root@localhost) by arl-img-12.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.17) id MAA04770 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 12:59:43 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 12:59:21 -0500 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: Flax Linen was re: HELP To: "INTERNET:h-costume-digest@indra.com" Message-ID: <199901061259_MC2-65B2-27D5@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id MAA16642 Status: O -Poster: Melanie Wilson >Doesn't it make sense then that if 100% linen was available and used...so was flax linen?? I've tried to say this several times but not all the posting comes out. Strictly speaking Flax are the fibres. Linen is the cloth. Similar to calling a type of Nylon Fibre Tactel I guess. Hope this clears it up. Mel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 14:12:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA16954 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 14:12:49 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA01522; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 12:21:29 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA17634 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 12:18:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA17618 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 12:18:50 -0700 (MST) From: SAQUEEN@aol.com Received: from SAQUEEN@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id JGQEa04794 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 14:18:12 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 14:18:12 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: skeletons and stays Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 61 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: SAQUEEN@aol.com The Washington Antiques Show 8606 Country Club Drive Bethesda, Maryland 20817 Catalogue(s) by mail @ $10.00 each _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 14:24:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA17000 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 14:24:12 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA02778; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 12:33:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA20567 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 12:31:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA20562 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 12:31:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.184] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 0zxyfU-00031M-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 11:31:00 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990106105412.00ba9100@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 10:55:22 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990105121303.0099f100@mail.tmsonline.com> References: <36926E99.582C462C@best.com> <19990105113322.746.qmail@hotmail.com> <199901051629.IAA13110@smtp.pacifier.com> <4.1.19990105112044.00969b30@mail.tmsonline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >I wasn't arguing with you at all. Your comment merely conjured up one of those >random facts stuck in my brain and I began to wonder what, in fact, the >timeframe was for widespread sterilization. Personally, though sterilization >is an issue, of course, my immediate concern regarding such things would be >about anaesthesia! Anaesthesia is relatively modern. Starting with chloroform and ether. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 14:42:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA17059 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 14:42:09 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA05032; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 12:51:29 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA25122 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 12:48:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from shooter.bluemarble.net (shooter.bluemarble.net [204.89.253.25]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA25107 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 12:48:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from wizzer (tc0-00.blm.bluemarble.net [208.245.166.80]) by shooter.bluemarble.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA12926 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 14:48:46 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990105224225.007d9b10@bluemarble.net> X-Sender: kimberly@bluemarble.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 22:42:25 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kimberly Gilbert Subject: Re: H-COST: Color associations In-Reply-To: <299D25F7216@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> References: <199812310259.TAA17397@indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kimberly Gilbert >I thought this was a Victorian association. The few *written* >references to it that I've seen were referring to 19thC >fables/superstitions. I first heard of it from an older friend of >the family (must have been in her sixties when I was a child) who >said that her mother would never let any of the family dress in green >and had told them that *her* mother had forbidden the family to wear >the colour either as it was said to be the colour of the fair-folk >and their mischief would bring sorrow on the house if they were >pretentious enough to claim kinship with the fairies..... Is it possible that the fairy color story began because of the other association (loose morals)? Perhaps the Victorians began claiming the fairies would not like people wearing green, because it was easier to think of fairies than of grass stains? Kimberly Kimberly Gilbert kimberly@bluemarble.net "This is terrible news! Do you actually intend to kill your enemies? Can't you just speak sternly to them?" _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 14:59:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA17157 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 14:59:31 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA07328; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 13:08:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA00245 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 13:06:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA00189 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 13:06:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA23218 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 12:05:59 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3693C241.1ABCAA1B@serv.net> Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 12:06:25 -0800 From: Merouda the True X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: H-COST: I'm crazy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Merouda the True So many of you wrote me about this so..... I just wrote a rough draft for that red cotehardie. I have sent it to a friend of mine who is good at this kind of thing for her input. I've gone this far, I might as well go to Kinko's at 3am. *sigh* My heart is pounding and I can't seem to catch my breath. Oh god, what have I done? -- Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 16:18:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA17556 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 16:18:24 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA15725; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 14:24:14 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA19594 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 14:21:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.31]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA19560 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 14:21:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.21.139 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 13:20:57 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: H-COST: RE: Green Color Associations Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 16:23:30 -0500 Message-ID: <000801be39bb$0b63a5a0$0c1fffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-reply-to: <3.0.5.32.19990105224225.007d9b10@bluemarble.net> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Mrs. Delaney described the wedding dress of Anne Princess Royal when she married William Prince of Orange in 1734: "The queen's clothes were on a green ground flowered with gold and several shades; but grave and very handsome; her head loaded with pearls and diamonds..." and "a manteau and a petticoat, white damask, with the finest embroidery of rich embossed gold and festoons of flowers intermixed with their natural colours. On one side of her head she had a green diamond of a vast size, the shape of a pear, and two pearls prodigiously large that were fastened to wires and hung loose on her hair: on the other side small diamonds prettily disposed, her earrings, necklace, and bars to her stays, all extravagantly fine, presents of the Prince of Orange to her. Now could someone explain precisely what the "bars to her stays" might have been? Sort of a bar shaped brooches of some kind??? Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Kimberly Gilbert Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 1999 10:42 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Color associations -Poster: Kimberly Gilbert >I thought this was a Victorian association. The few *written* >references to it that I've seen were referring to 19thC >fables/superstitions. I first heard of it from an older friend of >the family (must have been in her sixties when I was a child) who >said that her mother would never let any of the family dress in green >and had told them that *her* mother had forbidden the family to wear >the colour either as it was said to be the colour of the fair-folk >and their mischief would bring sorrow on the house if they were >pretentious enough to claim kinship with the fairies..... Is it possible that the fairy color story began because of the other association (loose morals)? Perhaps the Victorians began claiming the fairies would not like people wearing green, because it was easier to think of fairies than of grass stains? Kimberly Kimberly Gilbert kimberly@bluemarble.net "This is terrible news! Do you actually intend to kill your enemies? Can't you just speak sternly to them?" ____________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 17:17:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA17825 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 17:17:04 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA23130; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 15:26:28 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA28327 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 15:01:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from schultz.io.com (ches@schultz.io.com [199.170.88.6]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA28314 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 15:01:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (ches@localhost) by schultz.io.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA19922 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 16:01:43 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: schultz.io.com: ches owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 16:01:43 -0600 (CST) From: ches To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Flax Linen was re: HELP In-Reply-To: <199901061259_MC2-65B2-27D5@compuserve.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: ches I have a different question but kinda the same. What material was used for those egyptian headdresses? Are there any good source books about them and thier construction that any of you have actually recreated these from? Ches _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 19:39:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA18369 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 19:39:11 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA07456; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 17:48:25 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA27973 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 17:46:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA27965 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 17:45:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p30.directcon.net [206.170.184.79]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA05170 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 16:42:06 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 16:42:06 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901070042.QAA05170@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Flax Linen was re: HELP Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson Somehow a lot of confusion seems to have come up on this thread about >the flax/linen issue. Flax is *never* the name of a cloth. I'm afraid that should read "should never be" not "is never". Some years ago, I was working at House of Fabrics. We got a shipment of a new line of fabric that was named "Flax". As I recall, it was a nice heavy 50/50/ cotton/linen blend. Perhaps the poster saw some of this fabric for sale? Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 19:47:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA18397 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 19:47:33 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA08251; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 17:57:11 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA29206 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 17:54:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA29178 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 17:54:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p30.directcon.net [206.170.184.79]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA06422 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 16:50:45 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 16:50:45 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901070050.QAA06422@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Jerkin/doublet (was:Shakespeare In Love) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson >My understanding of a jerkin is that it's a sleeveless doublet worn over a >doubtlet. Except that, according to Janet Arnold, there are period references to sleeved jerkins and doublets without sleeves. Since there appear to have been people who called themselves jerkin makers, and tailors advertised making doublets, she guessed that jerkins might have been an easier garment to make, requiring less skill than that of a fully trained tailor. It's possible that the jerkin was a less structured, more loosely fitted garment than the doublet. Margo Anderson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 20:14:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA18492 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 20:14:30 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA10650; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 18:24:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA02882 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 18:21:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.66]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA02874 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 18:21:36 -0700 (MST) From: Marionetta@aol.com Received: from Marionetta@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id DFVPa01440 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 20:18:47 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 20:18:47 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: help with men's and women's German Ren Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 230 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Marionetta@aol.com Hi all, I'm finally starting to tackle a project I've been wanting to do for some time - German Ren costumes for me and my husband. My normal time period is the 1800s so this is quite a different ball of wax for me...I have patterns to use as my basis for the costumes and I've done some research and found info regarding silhouettes but I've got a few questions I don't know the answers to, particularly regarding fabrics. I'd like these to be reasonably accurate and would like to use velveteen since I've got a ton of black velveteen. But is cotton velveteen the right thing to use? Or is nylon/rayon velvet more appropriate? (silk's outta price range) Any tips on the best way to slash velvet? Brocade is often mentioned as being used in the plastron, but none of the illustrations I've seen are very clear on what this brocade looks like, any hints on the types of modern brocades that might work for this? And what colors are correct? I'm assuming the puffs/undersleeves should be a light weight white cotton fabric, like batiste, is this right? I've got an Elizabethan corset (a la hunniset) will this work for German Ren? Or do I even need one...? And finally anyone know of patterns/instructions on how to make those wacky hats they wore? Any and all info is greatly appreciated. Cheers, Loren Dearborn marionetta@aol.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 20:31:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA18560 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 20:31:21 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA11938; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 18:39:59 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA04967 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 18:37:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.netwiz.net (Mail.NetWiz.Net [208.136.106.6]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA04901 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 18:37:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from slave (BayArea56k596.NetWiz.Net [208.164.208.196]) by mail.netwiz.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id RAA14719 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 17:37:12 -0800 Message-ID: <36940ED0.5807@netwiz.net> Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 17:33:04 -0800 From: Susan Fatemi X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: egyptian headdresses References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Susan Fatemi ches wrote: > > -Poster: ches > > I have a different question but kinda the same. What material was used for > those egyptian headdresses? Are there any good source books about them WHICH egyptian headresses?? There are so many. Susan -- Oh Noh! Kimonos! susanf@netwiz.net http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 23:06:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA19263 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 23:06:46 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA25453; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 21:16:04 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA16851 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 21:13:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.66]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA16804 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 21:13:38 -0700 (MST) From: Tsrra@aol.com Received: from Tsrra@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 0SOCa01433 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 23:11:24 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 23:11:24 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Flax Linen was re: HELP Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 58 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Tsrra@aol.com In a message dated 99-01-06 17:24:27 EST, you write: << What material was used for those egyptian headdresses? Are there any good source books about them and thier construction that any of you have actually recreated these from? >> At the risk of having inadequate information again, I will respond: leather, stiffened linen, basketry, metalwork, beads. If you refer to Pharonic crowns, I have made them out of shaped felt, then put a fabric over them. What construction information I have, has been gleaned from archaeological reports. TS Ohara _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 23:35:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA19415 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 23:35:46 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA27724; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 21:45:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA00416 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 21:42:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp3.erols.com (smtp3.erols.com [207.172.3.236]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA00387 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 21:42:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from s0peladn (207-172-61-45.s45.tnt1.rcm.erols.com [207.172.61.45]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA15159 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 23:42:41 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000201be39f8$3363be40$2d3daccf@s0peladn> From: "Penny E. Ladnier" To: "costume newsgroup" Subject: H-COST: Elizabethan Colors Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 23:42:52 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Penny E. Ladnier" Here is a wonderful article, "Colors for Lower-Class Elizabethan Clothing". You may find it at http://www.dnaco.net/~aleed/corsets/lowerclass/lcolors.html . Later...Penny http://www.costumegallery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 23:50:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA19465 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 23:50:06 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA29032; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 21:59:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA07981 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 21:57:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from dgs.dgsys.com (robin@dgs.dgsys.com [204.97.64.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA07889 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 21:57:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by dgs.dgsys.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA12152 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 23:56:58 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: dgs.dgsys.com: robin owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 23:56:58 -0500 (EST) From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Color associations In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990105224225.007d9b10@bluemarble.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Robin Netherton On Tue, 5 Jan 1999, Kimberly Gilbert wrote: > Is it possible that the fairy color story began because of the other > association (loose morals)? Perhaps the Victorians began claiming the > fairies would not like people wearing green, because it was easier to > think of fairies than of grass stains? I can't say yea or nay on whether the Victorians popularized (or re-popularized) the folklore interpretation, or why. But there's plenty of evidence back to medieval times for the idea of green being associated with the supernatural and the magical. The "green man" is a common enough fantasy image in cathedral stonecarvings and other artwork, though the color reference is not associated with clothing in that case. The most recognizable literary reference to green clothing as a sign of the supernatural would be the Green Knight -- dressed completely in green, with green skin and hair -- who challenged Gawain (the poem is 14th c., the story possibly earlier). Also in that poem, Ber(t/c)ilak's wife gives Gawain a green belt with magical powers. Ber(t/c)ilak is later revealed to be the Green Knight (kind of like a secret identity), but the reader doesn't know that when the magical green belt shows up, so the color reference is not meant to represent a household color. Regarding earlier posts on this thread (which I have been reading sporadically; forgive me if I am repeating anything already said): It should be noted that in the original text of the song Greensleeves, the lady is not definitively a prostitute, because she never grants her favors to the singer (despite his many gifts to her). The song can be easily (maybe more easily) read as lampooning a foolish man who thinks he can buy a lady's love, and who doesn't know how to take "no" for an answer. Referring to a person by the color of her clothing for identification (particularly if you're being poetic and you don't want to reveal someone's identity) is not at all hard to understand. It was common enough in the Middle Ages and early Renaissance for people (even nobility) to wear the same gown day to day, and into the 15th century, it was rare that anyone except the very rich and the royalty had more than a few changes of clothes. Yes, there are plenty of exceptions, but if one does see the idea of a small wardrobe as the norm -- which it was -- then you can understand why a poet might describe his unidentified lady by her clothing. That convention may have lasted into the 16th century, even after larger wardrobes became more common. So while the color reference *may* have had some significance in the "Greensleeves" appelation, there's no absolute *need* to read any significance into it. I found the references to "giving a green gown" of interest -- I hadn't heard that before. However, I find it dubious to extrapolate from the "green gown" euphemism any implications about the wearing of actual green cloth or clothing, in any period. I would place more credence in inventories, wills, trade documents, or dyer's records that would indicate whether green was a popular or unpopular color in a given place/time. Perhaps someone who has spent more time with Elizabethan color descriptions can tell us whether green was oddly absent from records at the time in which Greensleeves was popular. In any case, I suspect any reference to "giving a green gown" is independent of the (earlier) faerie folklore regarding the color. Citations: I have the full text of Greensleeves in a Dover reprint of a poetry collection called "A Handful of Pleasant Delights," by Clement Robinson and Divers Others, ed. by Hyder E. Rollins. Actually, the Dover edition is a reprint of a 1924 study that includes the full text of a British Museum copy of the "Handful." The "Handful" itself is a collection of broadside ballads that appeared over a span of years. It had more than one edition; Shakespeare is thought to have been familiar with the collection. The British Museum volume was published in 1584, according to Rollins' introduction. The dating is complicated, and Rollins goes into some length that I won't pursue here. Rollins documents a slew of "response" ballads on Greensleeves that came out in 1580, suggesting that the broadside version appeared in that year. Some of the titles of those responses Rollins cites are "ye Ladie Greene Sleeves answere to Donkyn hir frende" and "Greene Sleves moralised to the Scripture Declaring the manifold benefites and blessinges of God bestowed on sinfull manne." These are not obviously suggestive of a prostitute, but that doesn't mean that there wasn't a response that presented Lady Greensleeve as a prostitute, and so that reference may be to one specific such ballad. The "Handful" is a lot of fun, and has some good costume references. It may be still available from Dover -- I bought mine for $1.75 in the 1970s. --Robin, passing through _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 00:01:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA19508 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 00:01:09 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA29777; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 22:10:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA14173 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 22:08:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.38]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA14154 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 22:08:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([12.64.40.232]) by mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.05 118 121 101) with ESMTP id <19990107050746.EDBV8305@worldnet.att.net> for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 05:07:46 +0000 Message-ID: <36943F57.25B80393@worldnet.att.net> Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 21:00:07 -0800 From: Carolyn Richardson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: help with men's and women's German Ren References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Richardson Marionetta@aol.com wrote: > I'd like these to be reasonably accurate and would like to use velveteen since > I've got a ton of black velveteen. But is cotton velveteen the right thing to > use? Or is nylon/rayon velvet more appropriate? (silk's outta price range) > Any tips on the best way to slash velvet? I'm certainly no expert but I did take a class at Costume College from Mistress Juliana who is (imo) an expert on German Ren. I wouldn't try to slash velvet. If you want slashed sleeves use a good felted wool. It won't ravel and velvet will ravel like crazy if you slash and not finish off the edges. CArolyn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 00:55:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA20291 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 00:55:25 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA03087; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 23:04:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA27705 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 23:01:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.mc.net (mail.mc.net [209.172.128.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id XAA27694 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 23:01:47 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 19330 invoked from network); 7 Jan 1999 06:03:00 -0000 Received: from tntmodem2-234.mc.net (HELO HEATHERL) (209.172.134.234) by mail.mc.net with SMTP; 7 Jan 1999 06:03:00 -0000 Message-ID: <36933267.1ED9@mc.net> Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 01:52:44 -0800 From: Heather Law Organization: Interstellar Trading Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: ether References: <199901060516.WAA22388@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Rating: mail.mc.net 1.6.1 0/1000/N Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Heather Law It was Queen Victoria's enthusiastism for ether during childbirth that popularized it. Clergymen denounced the practice, but after all she was head of the church and of course, everyone knew she would never do anything wrong. Carol Mitchell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 01:13:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA20579 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 01:13:18 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA03925; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 23:21:57 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA28925 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 23:19:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com (imo16.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.6]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA28915 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 23:19:40 -0700 (MST) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo16.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id LQMYa27784; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 01:18:41 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3b3e583b.369451c1@aol.com> Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 01:18:41 EST To: Vrhsnipes@aol.com, h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: H-COST: Re: Cavalier hats=Sources Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 224 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com Vivien & list Since this has come up a couple of times, I thought I'd cc the list. Southern Importers 4825 San Jacinto Houston, TX 77004 (713) 524-8236 p. 40 of the 1999 catalog. Item #20 1) Best quality is $24.95; less expensive is $8.95. I recently purchased several of the $8.95 variety and they were pretty good for the price. Sturdy and looked okay from the audience in a very small theater. Theater House, Inc. 400 West Third Street P.O. Box 2090 Covington, KY 41012-2090 p.45 current catalog. Item #3830; price $11.95 ++++++ Hatcrafters, Inc. 20 N. Springfield Road Clifton Heights, PA 19018 610-623-2620 they have 15 different models, wholesale prices vary $45 - $65 (Real Quality headwear, expensive, but well made, they supply film, tv, stage, etc.) All of the above will send you a mail-order catalog. angil ++++++++ Angela F. Lazear Costumes & Custom Clothing "Yes, all my laurels you have riven away and all my roses; yet in spite of you, there is one crown I bear away with me, and tonight, when I enter before God, my salute shall sweep all the stars away from the blue threshold! One thing without stain, unspotted from the world, in spite of doom, mine own! and that is.... my white plume!" ~~ Edmond Rostand's Cyrano de Bergerac In a message dated 1/6/99 17:47:34 Pacific Standard Time, Vrhsnipes writes: << In h-costume digest V4#14 you made a note that you have two sources for cavalier style hats. I would be very interested in knowing where you got them if you would be so kind as to share it. We did 3 Musketeers in October of 1997 and had a heck of a time finding them. If we do Puss and Boots next year (which is in the strong possible performance list) I'd be a step or three ahead. >> _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 02:14:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA20812 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 02:14:27 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id AAA06551; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 00:23:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id AAA03089 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 00:21:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.pacifier.com (root@smtp.pacifier.com [199.2.117.96]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id AAA03076 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 00:21:34 -0700 (MST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: from grendal2 (ip158.van17.pacifier.com [216.65.137.158]) by smtp.pacifier.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA09062 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 23:21:32 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901070721.XAA09062@smtp.pacifier.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 23:20:19 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: I'm crazy Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3693C241.1ABCAA1B@serv.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com Merouda wrote: > I just wrote a rough draft for that red cotehardie. I have sent it to > a friend of mine who is good at this kind of thing for her input. > I've gone this far, I might as well go to Kinko's at 3am. *sigh* My > heart is pounding and I can't seem to catch my breath. Oh god, what > have I done? As one of the people who will be on the judging panel for the contest she's talking about, I promise not to eat her. I promise not to let the other judges eat her. I've never bitten anyone in the 13 years I've been judging this contest and I don't plan on starting now. I suspect that she'll probably win her class (as we have 4 classes: novice, not really novice but not much experience with entering costume contests or not feeling confident with costuming yet, intermediates who have won a contest before, and "experts" like those who are Laurels, journeyman or above in the non-SCA costume societies or who have won at the regular intermediate level of our contest.) I can't promise that she'll win her class (and we deliberately don't have an "overall" winner), but you all can cross your fingers for her! Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 02:14:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA20816 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 02:14:32 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id AAA06560; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 00:23:53 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id AAA03090 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 00:21:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.pacifier.com (root@smtp.pacifier.com [199.2.117.96]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id AAA03082 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 00:21:35 -0700 (MST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: from grendal2 (ip158.van17.pacifier.com [216.65.137.158]) by smtp.pacifier.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA15483 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 23:21:33 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901070721.XAA15483@smtp.pacifier.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 23:20:19 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: Shakespeare In Love Priority: normal In-reply-to: <2e41ae6c.3693a0af@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > < buttoning (and a lot of *un* buttonning) of doublets. Is that accurate? > And shouldn't Will have been wearing a jerkin under his doublet?>> > > My understanding of a jerkin is that it's a sleeveless doublet worn over a > doubtlet. Also, more often than not, a jerkin was made of leather--there were > lots of fancy fabric jerkins made as well. That's why I say more often than > not. > > If you're looking for pictures of doublets and jerkins, you might want to see > Roy Strong's The English Icon: Elizabethan and Jacobean Portraiture. You > should be able to get it on inter-library loan at your local public library. > That's where I go garb idea shopping. :) For a description of the layers worn in Elizabethan costuming, I would suggest C. Willett Cunnington and Phillis Cunnington's book on Clothing in the 16th Century. It's not available on any booksearches for sale, but most of the better textile, costuming and drama libraries usually have a copy. I got my copy done by the UofW from their drama library (back in the days when they would copy whole out of print books for scholarly use.) Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 02:27:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA20922 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 02:27:52 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id AAA07172; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 00:37:24 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id AAA03840 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 00:35:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id AAA03833 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 00:35:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.184] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 0zy9yB-0007hh-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 23:35:03 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990106124655.00bbf1a0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 12:48:34 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Shakespeare In Love In-Reply-To: <19990105.175310.10823.5.robingoodfellow4@juno.com> References: <19990105154621.718.rocketmail@send105.yahoomail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >Secondly, I do have a couple costume questions. There seemed to be >buttoning (and a lot of *un* buttonning) of doublets. Is that accurate? >And shouldn't Will have been wearing a jerkin under his doublet? If memory serves, the jerkin goes over the doublet. If he could have afforded one he would have worn it. And yes, they buttoned. Unless they hooked. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 02:27:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA20924 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 02:27:53 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id AAA07183; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 00:37:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id AAA03854 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 00:35:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id AAA03841 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 00:35:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.184] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 0zy9yE-0007hh-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 23:35:07 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990106125950.00b96520@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 13:10:22 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: H-COST: 10' Rule - setting a good example In-Reply-To: <369369D1.8D35C87C@nash.tds.net> References: <19990106100717Z40815-295+59@tuug.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows I personally think that setting a good example is the most important single thing we can do for newbies. This goes for any period of clothes we are doing. It's more important than is the cloth linen or linen-look cotton, more important than is it hand sewn or machine sewn, and more important than is the colour perfect or just close. If we hold to our high standards and set that expectation for newbies, they will know we mean it. This will require teaching and tolerance (as it does with children, the original newbies), but they will get there. As more newbies graduate to knowing what they are doing and teaching others what they know, everyone will get better. Disclaimer - I am not advocating treating of newbies like children. I just happen to be a Mom and am aware of different learning curves than my own. >> I think it's not very easy to do bad work and use bad materials >> and still get a costume that looks good from 3m (10'). I mean >> one can spot errors in cut from that distance, grommets, >> (most) artificial fibres instead of silk and so on from that >> distance. From 60cm (2', about one's arms length) one can >> see almost every small mistake, perhaps even whether it's >> handsewn or not (and certainly whether embroidery was >> hand or machine made). >> >> So what is reasonable level and what are good ways to help >> newcomers to achieve that? I think the point at first was that >> not everybody has money for the right materials (at least here >> ok quality linen costs about $11 per metre) or time for >> handsewing. > >I always recommend using a coarse weave or linen look >cotton, cutting out a t-tunic (or t-tunic dress), seaming >the interior seams with the machine as well as the hem and >then handsewing the hems. > Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 02:34:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA20972 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 02:34:11 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id AAA07444; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 00:43:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id AAA04186 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 00:41:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from aus.compassnet.com.au ([203.26.180.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id AAA04180 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 00:41:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from wayne-s-pc by aus.compassnet.com.au (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id SAA06810; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 18:37:30 +1100 Message-ID: <0ad601be3a15$3f8ecd00$1db51acb@wayne-s-pc> From: "Glenda Robinson" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Shakespeare/anachronisms Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 16:47:47 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Glenda Robinson" AlbertCat wrote: > >Of course the doublet should be laced at the waist to the hose....no? This >makes the "trunk hose and just a shirt" look very suspect to me. The hose that my husband wears in both 1525 and 1640 reenactment are both of the type that tie to the doublet. However, that doesn't mean that they are not worn without the doublet. With these types of hose, the ties are through the waistband (which are not usually of the same material as the hose, BTW). These waistbands tend to be tailored to fit the wearer, so are able to be worn without the doublet without overly exposing oneself. There is quite often a point tied across the front of the band as well, which can be seen in the oft-quoted Arnold, Patterns of Fashion, to hold the front in. Glenda -------------------------------- Glenda Robinson Flamberge Computer Services glendar@compassnet.com.au _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 03:09:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA26781 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 03:09:55 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id BAA08593; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 01:19:29 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id BAA06190 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 01:17:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id BAA06181 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 01:17:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.165] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 0zyAcs-0001ze-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 00:17:08 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990106232920.00b96100@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 23:33:37 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays In-Reply-To: <199901061624.IAA28900@smtp.pacifier.com> References: <36925029.D4CBB17B@best.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows I have real trouble believing actual 15" waists. There is a lot of in-period talking about this, and even stories about women who supposedly had them. I remain unconvinced. My Sweetie has a neck bigger than 15". >I have never seen any documentation for rib removal prior to the mid >19th C. From what I know of corsetry, I doubt that there would have >been any reason for it. (Except in Marie d'Medici's court, or was it >Catherine, where they were aiming for a 15" waist. That was an >anomaly of the time period though, not a world wide phenomenon, and >I sincerely doubt anyone considered rib removal at that point.) Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 03:09:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA26785 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 03:09:58 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id BAA08604; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 01:19:31 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id BAA06196 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 01:17:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id BAA06191 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 01:17:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.165] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 0zyAcw-0001ze-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 00:17:10 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990106233902.00b8cdc0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 23:55:59 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: help with men's and women's German Ren In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Aah, a woman after my own period... >I'm finally starting to tackle a project I've been wanting to do for some time >- German Ren costumes for me and my husband. My normal time period is the >1800s so this is quite a different ball of wax for me...I have patterns to use >as my basis for the costumes and I've done some research and found info >regarding silhouettes but I've got a few questions I don't know the answers >to, particularly regarding fabrics. > >I'd like these to be reasonably accurate and would like to use velveteen since >I've got a ton of black velveteen. But is cotton velveteen the right thing to >use? Or is nylon/rayon velvet more appropriate? (silk's outta price range) Silk is what they had, but there is a story of a German Duchess who sold one of her villiages to pay for a velvet dress. If the garment must be washed, use whatever you have to which includes washability. If not, use what shines most like the silk stuff. Use it for the 'guards', that band trim. >Any tips on the best way to slash velvet? Apply it on the grain, slash it exactly on the bias. This way it will fuzz a little (and shed lots of pile) but it won't actually fray. Brocade is often mentioned as being >used in the plastron, but none of the illustrations I've seen are very clear >on what this brocade looks like, any hints on the types of modern brocades >that might work for this? Use what you can find with 'pineapples' or 'pomegranites' on it. Look at the Flemish illos from the late 1400's to see what I mean. (As in, not Hawaiian pineapples.) And what colors are correct? Check in the same places. Painters to look up include Cranach, Breughel, and Durer, and all those photo-realistic Flemish guys from the late 1400's. I'm assuming the >puffs/undersleeves should be a light weight white cotton fabric, like batiste, >is this right? Earlier this puffing is actually the shirt. Later it could be thin taffeta, and is colours other than white. Muslin weight is best. They used linen not cotton, so look for a linen-look 100% natural fibre cloth (or you'll roast in it). I've got an Elizabethan corset (a la hunniset) will this work >for German Ren? No. The English used a cone-shaped corset, and the Germans didn't. The German ones allowed for the female shape in front. There is one in Janet Arnold. Or do I even need one...? Later yes, earlier, maybe not. And finally anyone know of >patterns/instructions on how to make those wacky hats they wore? I have some. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 03:53:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA26924 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 03:53:29 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id CAA10396; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 02:02:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id CAA08264 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 02:00:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail-gw.pacbell.net (mail-gw.pacbell.net [206.13.28.25]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id CAA08258 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 02:00:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-71-59.irvn11.pacbell.net [206.170.71.59]) by mail-gw.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with ESMTP id BAA29175 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 01:00:36 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36940873.5FC37855@pacbell.net> Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 01:06:01 +0000 From: Dietmar Organization: Completely Disorganized X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-PBI-NC404 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 10' Rule References: <19990106100717Z40815-295+59@tuug.org> <369369D1.8D35C87C@nash.tds.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Dietmar Greetings good people, Someone asked: >> So what is reasonable level and what are good ways to help >> newcomers to achieve that? I think the point at first was that >> not everybody has money for the right materials (at least here >> ok quality linen costs about $11 per metre) or time for >> handsewing. Kat responded: > I always recommend using a coarse weave or linen look cotton, > cutting out a t-tunic (or t-tunic dress), seaming the interior > seams with the machine as well as the hem and then handsewing > the hems. Yes, but do you help them with period patterns or use the "trace around a dress shirt" method? I show people a pile of swatches (someday I'll make a swatch book) and give them ideas for acceptable substitutions. We tell them where they can buy stuff cheap and occasionally schedule a "safari" to the garment district. I'll pass along the titles of good reference books, help with patterns and patterning. This month we'll be holding a workshop specifically for newcomers to get some costumes patterned or have problems solved. There is a definite learning curve, and we try to help them up it as fast as is reasonable. Everyone will settle into a level where they feel comfortable. That might not be as authentic as I would like, but I'm not going to drum them out of the group. Regards, Dietmar "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 03:58:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA26944 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 03:58:53 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id CAA10739; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 02:08:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id CAA08559 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 02:06:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from send204.yahoomail.com (send204.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.158]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id CAA08554 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 02:06:09 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <19990107091119.27387.rocketmail@send204.yahoomail.com> Received: from [194.168.181.16] by send204.yahoomail.com; Thu, 07 Jan 1999 01:11:19 PST Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 01:11:19 -0800 (PST) From: Anne Foote Subject: H-COST: Stays & girdles - effects To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Anne Foote Re rib removal - I am sure this fell into the "man bites dog" category. It may well have happened in Victorian times, but it was never more than a few cases hitting the headlines ? The original poster asked about the effects of stay wearing, and replies have covered lung capacity, livers and such. I think there are more effects Not stays, but the 1920 boob squashing bras. One I remember seeing in a musuem looked painfully effective - vertical bones across each breast, and FLAT. At the time doctors cited these as causing inverted nipples and milk supply problems. 19C stays - apparently you were unlikely to slip a vertebra when laced in. Slipped disks were for men ! Posture and movement was important for both fashion and class. If the corset made you sit and stand in the way then surely there must have been some long term effects on the poor old body? Was it posture & movement that was the reason behind Vict little girls wearing corsets rather than the pursuit of the mythical 18 inch waist ? I have seen in 19C beauty books one of the effects on the human body of tight stays was constipation.This touched a raw nerve with the Victorians. They knew all about purging and stong laxatives. Several r-enactors have told me that both 18 and 19 C have non physical effects. They tell me that they more elegant and superior. Also they feel . Don't forget the 1950/60s ! I am JUST old enough to remember the hot and scratchy firm control girdles and long line bras of the early 1960s. (Bones, hooks and eyes, deep breath to get into them, anybody else remember ?) They sure changed my shape, posture and movement. Look at 1950 movies / TV recordings - those women are not shaped as we are today. An afterthought for today's fashions. Last Christmas two of my nieces (14 &15 Yrs old) were discussing the younger's Christmas present - a wonderbra. I laughed when I heard that you "have to wear it for a few days for your boobs to get used to it." The human body is so malleable and accomodating - there must have been many effects of wearing rigid and tight stays from an early age. Annie _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 05:49:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA27311 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 05:49:55 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id DAA13275; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 03:58:44 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id DAA01817 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 03:56:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from server1.mich.com (root@server1.mich.com [198.108.16.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id DAA01626 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 03:56:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from raille (pm187-08.dialip.mich.net [198.110.44.18]) by server1.mich.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id FAA24482 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 05:56:14 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990107060257.00794500@onramp.i2k.com> X-Sender: alwen@onramp.i2k.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 06:02:57 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Lynn Carpenter Subject: H-COST: Small wardrobe, was Color associations Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lynn Carpenter Robin Netherton wrote: >Referring to a person by the color of her clothing for identification >(particularly if you're being poetic and you don't want to reveal >someone's identity) is not at all hard to understand. It was common enough >in the Middle Ages and early Renaissance for people (even nobility) to >wear the same gown day to day, and into the 15th century, it was rare that >anyone except the very rich and the royalty had more than a few changes of >clothes. Yes, there are plenty of exceptions, but if one does see the idea >of a small wardrobe as the norm -- which it was -- then you can understand >why a poet might describe his unidentified lady by her clothing. That >convention may have lasted into the 16th century, even after larger >wardrobes became more common. So while the color reference *may* have had >some significance in the "Greensleeves" appelation, there's no absolute >*need* to read any significance into it. This brings up something I've been wondering for a long time. I'm in the SCA, and my area groups often hog the bathrooms before feast to change their clothing. I can see this for the fighters, who are hot and sweaty. But did pre-1600's people actually "change for dinner"? This feels to me to be a much later custom. Anyone have dates on "dinner dress"? It would be way out of my 11th century timeframe... Lynn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 06:45:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA27490 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 06:44:59 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id EAA14789; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 04:54:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id EAA12086 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 04:52:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (mailsorter-105.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.95]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id EAA12080 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 04:52:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailtod-132.iap.bryant.webtv.net (mailtod-132.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.113]) by mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with ESMTP id DAA10183; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 03:52:15 -0800 (PST) Received: (from production@localhost) by mailtod-132.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/mt.gso.26Feb98) id DAA18165; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 03:52:12 -0800 (PST) X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAtAhRkDYG47WbWj2XdKRHxMIwPR43eEQIVAKc0vPqFQblfWtNkfn2pYES2DA2U From: starsinger@webtv.net (theresa sorrell) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 04:52:12 -0700 (MST) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays Message-ID: <14641-36949FEC-158@mailtod-132.iap.bryant.webtv.net> In-Reply-To: Carolyn Kayta Barrows 's message of Wed, 06 Jan 1999 23:33:37 -0800 Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: starsinger@webtv.net (theresa sorrell) I believe, it is possible. You would have to be petite like so many women of that age, not an amazon like me :) I looked at that website sited and was amazed at how deformed those women looked. Not attractive at all. One lady in the site had on what looked like a red leather job and an incredibly tiny waist. Starsinger _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 07:28:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA27636 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 07:28:54 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id FAA16062; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 05:38:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id FAA14130 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 05:36:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from send204.yahoomail.com (send204.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.158]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id FAA14125 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 05:36:04 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <19990107124115.7134.rocketmail@send204.yahoomail.com> Received: from [194.168.181.20] by send204.yahoomail.com; Thu, 07 Jan 1999 04:41:15 PST Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 04:41:15 -0800 (PST) From: Dora Barnes Subject: H-COST: Stays, skeletons and girdles To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Dora Barnes <<<>>>>>> I was wearing a girdle at age 14 in 195 ehem, and when I was 15 my mother saw it natural for me to be in firm control girdle and longline bra for best wear. I was ambivalent towards them, it was rite of passage to womanhood, and they could be very uncomfortable at the end of a long day. My sister complained that after a week in bed ill and had lost weight, she found it difficult to get back into her girdle - I suppose she had gone back to her ungirdled shape during the week. I think this was an example of shape change in the medium term. The Victorians probably had similar effects, but magnified as their corsets were much harsher. I do not want to bore all you experts with the problems of my underwear as an adolescent. However, thinking back I can remember what my mother, her mother etc were telling. And in those days the older generation were always right. "Nice firm girdles" were essential, not only for the visual shape, but for support, posture and the indefinable - "it was good for you". I think my mother and her generation genuinely expected some ladylike permanent changes in me through the firm control lingerie. I am still a tomboy ! Dora _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 09:02:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA28068 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:02:23 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA20046; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 07:11:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA20465 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 07:09:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.tds.net (mail.tds.net [204.246.1.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA20455 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 07:09:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from nash.tds.net (latnusr0-a18.nash.tds.net [207.0.84.146]) by mail.tds.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA28527 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 08:09:23 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <3694C010.2EC71E9A@nash.tds.net> Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 08:09:21 -0600 From: Kent & Kat Organization: Oak, Ash, and Thorn X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 10' Rule References: <19990106100717Z40815-295+59@tuug.org> <369369D1.8D35C87C@nash.tds.net> <36940873.5FC37855@pacbell.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kent & Kat Dietmar wrote: > > Kat responded: > > > I always recommend using a coarse weave or linen look cotton, > > cutting out a t-tunic (or t-tunic dress), seaming the interior > > seams with the machine as well as the hem and then handsewing > > the hems. > > Yes, but do you help them with period patterns or use the "trace > around a dress shirt" method? Yes. It depends on the person (& I'm not very active right now) but anyone who comes to me with a costuming question gets an offer of me babysitting them through the garment...I'd much rather teach than make it myself for a fee and I never charge for teaching. > I show people a pile of swatches (someday I'll make a swatch > book) and give them ideas for acceptable substitutions. We tell > them where they can buy stuff cheap and occasionally schedule a > "safari" to the garment district. I usually use garb that's on hand as examples and have done a number of 'walk-throughs' at the fabric stores. Unfortunately the excellent remnant store we had (corduroy of the correct wale, fake fur & heavy cotton flannel for ~$1.50 a pound!) closed down (yes, I *still* have fabric left five years after!) so now I travel down to Fayetteville, TN to Sirs Fabric ($1.00/yd antique satin & $5.50/yd cotton velvet) which is a day trip (leave at 9 get back in the early afternoon). > I'll pass along the titles of good reference books, help with > patterns and patterning. This month we'll be holding a workshop > specifically for newcomers to get some costumes patterned or > have problems solved. BTDT! When our household was more active Mistress Nerak would have all day costuming workshops at her house. My favorite piece of her advice that I pass on is to never, ever, ever look at anything but the pictures when making a Medieval Miscellania pattern and to buy a roll of butcher paper to make your patterns on! > There is a definite learning curve, and we try to help them up > it as fast as is reasonable. Everyone will settle into a level > where they feel comfortable. That might not be as authentic as > I would like, but I'm not going to drum them out of the group. No, but I *do* mention the fact that the higher the natural fiber the more comfortable their clothing will be...since most of the folx I help can't afford much beyond cotton I point out that cotton will both keep them warm *and* cool because it breathes. I've had numerous folx astonished because I wear a number of heavy cotton flannel cotehardies & t-tunic dresses & overtunics which gives me an opportunity to hammer...I mean, point this out again. Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 09:09:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA28093 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:09:09 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA20519; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 07:18:46 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA21208 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 07:16:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from rmx07.globecomm.net (rmx07.iname.net [165.251.8.75]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA21203 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 07:16:18 -0700 (MST) From: sue-historian@writeme.com Received: from weba3.iname.net by rmx07.globecomm.net (8.9.1/8.8.0) with ESMTP id JAA14342 ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:16:18 -0500 (EST) Received: (from root@localhost) by weba3.iname.net (8.9.1a/8.9.2.Alpha2) id JAA00348; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:16:17 -0500 (EST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <9901070916173I.23662@weba3.iname.net> Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:16:17 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: Text/Plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Stays, skeletons and girdles Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: sue-historian@writeme.com Dora Barnes (dare I say the young Dora ?) wrote about the reasons for 1950s firm control lingerie being more than shape - she mentioned >" support, posture and the indefinable - "it was good for you" This strikes a chord in my own memories. Can Dora or anyone else expand on these non shape values ? Sue ---------------------------------------------------------------- Get your free email from AltaVista at http://altavista.iname.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 09:15:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA28115 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:15:56 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA21111; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 07:25:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA21875 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 07:23:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.tds.net (mail.tds.net [204.246.1.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA21870 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 07:23:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from nash.tds.net (latnusr0-a18.nash.tds.net [207.0.84.146]) by mail.tds.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA11598 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 08:23:08 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <3694C347.F46BBBE5@nash.tds.net> Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 08:23:04 -0600 From: Kent & Kat Organization: Oak, Ash, and Thorn X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays References: <36925029.D4CBB17B@best.com> <4.1.19990106232920.00b96100@pop.slip.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kent & Kat Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > I have real trouble believing actual 15" waists. There is a lot > of in-period talking about this, and even stories about women > who supposedly had them. I remain unconvinced. My Sweetie has > a neck bigger than 15". I have understood it for some time having spent my youth roaming through historical houses & looking at the clothing (among other things...my dad is a historian so we would get toooons of info about who lived in the house...hmmm, wonder if he can find the time to do the same with our kids?). I'm 5'8" but even when I was shorter it was pretty obvious that the women were much, much shorter than I am. Remember that nutrition wasn't all that hot back in the good 'ole days and while some women had real female figures (my dh looooves Rubanesque! ) a number of them did not. Think how small a supermodal's waist must be and then factor down for the fact that most modals are considered tall for today's standards as opposed to the norms of yesteryear. When you get a chance to actually look at clothing from earlier periods it's amazing how much smaller they are...even just looking in a vintage clothing store will show you...I've seen stuff that *might* fit my daughter width-wise and she's only five! Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 10:18:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA28406 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 10:18:16 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA26718; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 08:26:07 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA29652 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 08:23:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtpgate.uvm.edu (smtpgate.uvm.edu [132.198.101.121]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA29643 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 08:23:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from 132.198.103.242 (132.198.103.242) by smtpgate.uvm.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.DB273D30@smtpgate.uvm.edu>; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 10:24:06 -0800 Message-ID: <3694D190.57CC@uvm.edu> Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 10:24:07 -0500 From: Hope Greenberg X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Color associations References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Hope Greenberg Robin Netherton wrote: > It > should be noted that in the original text of the song Greensleeves, the > lady is not definitively a prostitute, because she never grants her favors > to the singer (despite his many gifts to her). The song can be easily > (maybe more easily) read as lampooning a foolish man who thinks he can buy > a lady's love, and who doesn't know how to take "no" for an answer. I wouldn't even go that far. Pick up any collection of 16th century madrigals, canzonets, or balettes, choose one at random, and the chances are you'll be reading one filled with the sighings and dyings of unrequited love. It was a long-standing tradition. > Rollins documents a slew of "response" ballads on Greensleeves that came > out in 1580, . . . "Greene Sleves moralised to the > Scripture Declaring the manifold benefites and blessinges of God bestowed > on sinfull manne." Ah! Now that would be fun to read. I'd guess that text has nothing to do with the morals of the lady subject at all. What I find interesting about Greensleeves is how this particular ditty, of all the wonderful things out there, became so enduringly popular. And where in the world did the notion that this is about a prostitute come from? Researching that tradition would probably be more fun than the song itself. Mary Magdalen is often, but not always, pictured in green (and carrying that neat little jar and usually wearing interesting headgear) but so are several of the women saints so I don't think that helps. By the way, a quick web search turned up this as one of the verses: My men were clothed all in green, And they did ever wait on thee; All this was gallant to be seen, And yet thou wouldst not love me. A charming idea, clothing your men in your lady's color as a token of devotion. Wait...I can see it now...that REALLY means this guy had a ring of pimps and... Sorry! :-) - Hope ------------- hope.greenberg@uvm.edu, U of Vermont, http://www.uvm.edu/~hag _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 10:57:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA28709 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 10:57:45 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA01168; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:05:14 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA10289 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:02:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtpgate.uvm.edu (smtpgate.uvm.edu [132.198.101.121]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA10272 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:02:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from 132.198.103.242 (132.198.103.242) by smtpgate.uvm.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.4C637B80@smtpgate.uvm.edu>; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 11:03:04 -0800 Message-ID: <3694DAB2.43DD@uvm.edu> Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 11:03:08 -0500 From: Hope Greenberg X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: field trip report and color question References: <000201be39f8$3363be40$2d3daccf@s0peladn> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Hope Greenberg If you plan to be in New York before Jan. 17th and haven't already been there, don't bother with the costume exhibit at the Metropolitan Museum of Art--go straight to the exhibit on early Netherlands painting. What feasts for the eyes and a goldmine for the costumer! The Met has collected over 140 paintings and sculptures from the period 1420-1550 and has them all on display at this exhibit. The colors are breathtaking, the artists' attention to detail particularly gratifying from a costumers point of view, and the fact that you can get right up close is perhaps the most amazing thing of all. I saw one wooden sculture where a woman's bodice, though that portion was only about an inch in height, actually had the side seam carved in it. You can see some of the works at the museum's web site, http://www.metmuseum.org, and many are available on the standard print and online collections, but seeing them live was just wonderful. I was a bit disappointed in the catalog, so didn't buy it--it focused on the art and expression of the works instead of providing nice big color blow-ups of the costuming details--how dare they!! I do have two questions as a result. I want to make a houpellande (probably mid century northern, haven't decided on the exact style yet) and am wondering about the suitability of a piece of fabric I have. 1) It's antique satin but with a fine weave--no nubblies. Not linen, wool, or real silk, *sigh* though the black back makes it look rather like shot silk. Is it an acceptable substitute for the authenticity minded? 2) The color: it is between plum-purple-taupe-grey, very subdued. I saw several gowns in the above exhibit of the same or nearly the same color but I don't know if this is a paint-only color or if there would have been a dye color like this in the mid-15th century. Any ideas? Thanks, as always! - Hope ------------- hope.greenberg@uvm.edu, U of Vermont, http://www.uvm.edu/~hag _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 11:07:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA28758 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 11:07:46 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA02796; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:17:25 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA13269 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:14:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA13252 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:14:53 -0700 (MST) From: Luiseach@aol.com Received: from Luiseach@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id KEVLa18627 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 11:14:14 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <646e2b53.3694dd56@aol.com> Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 11:14:14 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Small wardrobe, was Color associations Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 84 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Luiseach@aol.com In a message dated 01/07/99 04:02:55 AM, Lynn wrote: <> Pre-1600, the people sitting down at the fancy tables for dinner wouldn't have been taking down the pavillion and schlepping the gear half an hour before--they would have had servants to do the grunt work and get dusty and sweaty. Lucinda known in the SCA as Luighseach nic Lochlainn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 11:17:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA28804 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 11:17:43 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA03917; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:27:04 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA14913 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:24:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com (imo16.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.6]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA14906 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:24:32 -0700 (MST) From: EofAshley@aol.com Received: from EofAshley@aol.com by imo16.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 9QRSa27801 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 11:23:40 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <95a725f8.3694df8c@aol.com> Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 11:23:40 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Re: H-COST: 10' Rule Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 84 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: EofAshley@aol.com Kat: I have been dying to get to Sir's for the past year. Are their prices as good as they say? Sometimes, all it takes is gentle direction, as some newcomers to historic reenactment first go to fabric stores before they begin participation, and say to themselves, " THIS looks kinda period!" We've had many people after beginning garb classes say, "So THAT'S what it's supposed to look like!" Karla _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 11:28:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA28838 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 11:27:59 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA05067; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:37:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA16832 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:34:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA16788 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:34:30 -0700 (MST) From: EofAshley@aol.com Received: from EofAshley@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id HCHEa19764 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 11:33:26 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 11:33:26 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Re: H-COST: Small wardrobe, was Color associations Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 84 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: EofAshley@aol.com In our area of the World, it's Court that everyone is getting dressed up for, before feast, and fine clothing worn in the court of Royalty would, needless to say, have been appropriate. karla _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 11:29:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA28848 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 11:29:44 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA05271; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:39:11 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA17148 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:36:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from send104.yahoomail.com (send104.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.122]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id JAA17140 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:36:40 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <19990107163824.24953.rocketmail@send104.yahoomail.com> Received: from [163.231.230.197] by send104.yahoomail.com; Thu, 07 Jan 1999 08:38:24 PST Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 08:38:24 -0800 (PST) From: Jennifer McNitt Subject: H-COST: SCA-Garb To: h-costume-digest@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Jennifer McNitt What ever happened to the SCA-Garb mailing list? It seems that www.coollist.com is down (and I heard maybe for good). Has anyone setup a new list somewhere else? If not, I have an account at www.egroups.com and it could be hosted there. Jen == -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Jennifer McNitt Rosemount, MN E-mail: jenmcnitt@yahoo.com SCA: Gweniver Kenwyn of Roseveth -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 11:38:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA28881 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 11:38:18 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA06167; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:47:21 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA18729 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:44:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from epicurus.miningco.com (epicurus.miningco.com [207.122.100.23]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id JAA18714 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:44:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from LISA [209.162.71.46] by epicurus.miningco.com (AltaVista Mail V2.0/2.0 BL23 listener) id 0000_00fc_3694_f380_5875; Thu, 07 Jan 1999 12:48:48 -0500 Message-Id: <4.1.19990107084433.0095c220@mail.tmsonline.com> X-Sender: reenactment@mail.miningco.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 08:45:10 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lisa Scovel Subject: H-COST: Fwd: Natural dyes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lisa Scovel Another question from a reader.... Any ideas? > >Hi,I'm trying to find a school or university with classes in the >lost artwork of natural dyes used for clothes,and to give color to >everything found in all textiles.Are there any resources to find a >school or an apprenticeship in this trade? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 11:47:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA28931 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 11:47:17 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA07329; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:56:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA20357 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:54:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f206.hotmail.com [207.82.251.97]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id JAA20346 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:54:21 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 8785 invoked by uid 0); 7 Jan 1999 16:53:50 -0000 Message-ID: <19990107165350.8784.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 194.168.181.26 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 07 Jan 1999 08:53:49 PST X-Originating-IP: [194.168.181.26] From: "Cornelia W" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Stays, skeletons, breasts and posture. Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 08:53:49 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Cornelia W" This is a fascinating and rambling topic - here's a few more rambles. Anne Foote mentioned in a post the 1920 bras. I had a great aunt, brought up in New York, who was a la mode in the 1920s. In the 60s she had a breast tumour removed, and claimed it was due to the tight binding she wore to get the flat look when young. In photos taken in the 1920s she appeared quite well build, but without any trace of a bust. I remember her talking about bandaging, not flattening bras. I don’t know if binding would produce tumours, but anyway, she freely admitted doing it. Do we have theater people or reenactors in this list who have tried to get the same look ? Several postings have contrasted posture and shape as an effect of stays. Of course, stays will change your posture - a solid wooden busk really does keep you upright. The 18C was looking for even and expected women to have flat and narrow backs. 18 C girls in middle and upper class homes not only had stays (from age 4 or so ?) but also backboards and other devices to help their little skeletons into the proper shape. Try looking at page 174 of the following (not easy navigate). It is a 1825? Dancing instruction book, with a lot of emphasis on posture. http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/dihtml/dihome.html Go to "search", then keyword search on "backboard" -and look at page 174. I think it's not a standard html document so you can't point to it from here. Does anyone know what the "steel collars" are mentioned as giving a too stiff a carriage on page 191 In her autobiography "Period Piece" Gwen Raverat tells when she was aged 13 in the 1880s she was made to wear stays, fond them uncomfortable and took them off. She adds "when my softshelled condition was discovered I was forcibly recorsetted." They must have uncomfortable, poor girl. By the time she was say 20, the 8 years in stays must have had some effect on her body, bones and mental outlook. Cornelia ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 12:04:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA28992 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:04:11 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA09105; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 10:13:28 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA23252 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 10:10:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from tecoma.mccc.edu (tecoma.mccc.edu [198.133.170.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA23229 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 10:10:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from Station1.tecoma.mccc.edu (th119-1.mccc.edu [207.8.248.196]) by tecoma.mccc.edu (8.9.1a/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA12884 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:10:06 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36951480.2E67@mccc.edu> Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 12:09:36 -0800 From: Kate Pinner Organization: MCCC X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: London 'Cloth of Gold' References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kate Pinner Just got back from a week in London -- The British Museum has an exhibit of modern "Cloth of Gold". Seems someone in India is reviving the classical skill and artistry. They have shawls, panels and sashes that are absolutely gorgeous!!! Silk and silver gilt. And to think that one could actually buy these now (if one had tons of money!). Some of the pieces have magnifying glasses so you can see the stitches. They are shown with some of the Indian paintings so you can see how they might be used. Wish I could have stayed longer & seen more. The V&A has QEWardrobe at 75 pounds but you have to ask at the desk, it's not out on the shelves. I wish they would set up their costume displays with mirrors -- although it's great they show the backs of some of the clothes, I also want to see the front (and vice versa). At the National Gallery, I picked up a small book on Costume in Art. Haven't had time to really pore over it but am looking forward to that this weekend. Kate > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 12:04:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA28996 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:04:58 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA09287; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 10:14:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA23407 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 10:11:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.tds.net (mail.tds.net [204.246.1.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA23401 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 10:11:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from nash.tds.net (latnusr0-a18.nash.tds.net [207.0.84.146]) by mail.tds.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA14529 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 11:10:32 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <3694EA85.41E9DC9D@nash.tds.net> Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 11:10:29 -0600 From: Kent & Kat Organization: Oak, Ash, and Thorn X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 10' Rule References: <95a725f8.3694df8c@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kent & Kat EofAshley@aol.com wrote: > > Kat: > > I have been dying to get to Sir's for the past year. Are their > prices as good as they say? I think so...I pay $1/yd for antique satin and the most *I've* paid for fabric is $3/yd there (but most of my costuming now is for theatrical purposes and so I'm not buying some of the upper end fabrics one might use for court garb. Some of the antique satin has slub on both sides as opposed to having a shiny side. I've seen light silk every time I've been in for ~$10.50/yd which are generally in cream and light colors. They have broadcloth, in dull colors for the most part, for $0.50/yd (I buy a lot of this!). There are actually two stores...one is nothing but upholstery which also has foam and fake fur (don't know why it's in that store but...). The other has upholstery fabric as well as the more usual fabric one finds in a regular store. It also has a bridal section, a button bin where I've found good pewter buttons every visit but I'm not as impressed with the trim section and they don't have the very heavy cotton flannel that I like. They have a lot of mill ends so what you encounter varies from visit to visit although some things are 'normal' such as the cotton velvet (yum...I need more money!). My suggestion would be to carpool with others who are interested in buying fabric (we take a van or station wagon), go early in the morning and explore. > Sometimes, all it takes is gentle direction, as some newcomers > to historic reenactment first go to fabric stores before they > begin participation, and say to themselves, " THIS looks kinda > period!" We've had many people after beginning garb classes > say, "So THAT'S what it's supposed to look like!" LOL! It may be easier depending on which fabric store you go to. The one I frequent most has workers who all know me well and I've educated them as I buy fabric...which means I've also overheard them giving other customers the same information I've passed to them...and been accosted by a worker wondering if I can answer a question for another customer! During the halloween period I had 'chance' conversations about costumes every time I went in the store! Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 12:18:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA29062 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:18:02 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA10881; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 10:27:45 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA25576 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 10:25:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA25570 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 10:25:15 -0700 (MST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id AMXFa03538 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:23:46 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:23:46 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Jerkin/doublet (was:Shakespeare In Love) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 1/6/99 7:57:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, margo@directcon.net writes: << It's possible that the jerkin was a less structured, more loosely fitted garment than the doublet. >> Interesting.....and feasible considering a jerkin goes over the doublet. And just to complicate things further, some jerkins are made to match the doublet [these are usually sleeveless] with same fabric & trim. In some portraits you can hardly tell there's a jerkin at all.....the only clues being two sets of tabs at the waist & armseye & if left unbuttoned [also probably more the case with these matching jerkins] the 2 sets of buttons & holes. I believe in Janet Arnold there is a silk brocade jerkin that is too narrow to button up...the buttons & holes being purely decorative. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 12:46:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA29389 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:46:20 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA15251; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 10:53:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA02668 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 10:50:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from tecoma.mccc.edu (tecoma.mccc.edu [198.133.170.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA02637 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 10:50:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from Station1.tecoma.mccc.edu (th119-1.mccc.edu [207.8.248.196]) by tecoma.mccc.edu (8.9.1a/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA13830 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:50:10 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36951DE4.3834@mccc.edu> Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 12:49:40 -0800 From: Kate Pinner Organization: MCCC X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Study of historic textiles ! References: <199812261851_MC2-64C9-9FE2@compuserve.com> <4.1.19981227060253.00a93c30@pop.slip.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kate Pinner Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > Also some fire detection equipment might be sensitive to flash. And since fabric and paper are light sensitive, the galeries are kept at low light levels; if flashes go off they annoy the other visitors and could also make the guards think that someone is trying to divert attention. Kate (who worked in a museum for ten years) > >odd question: is this photo-phobia of museums more of a commercial > >interest or are certain items particularly sensitive to photo flash? > > Sensitive to photo flash. Same reason some keep their museums so dark you > can't take your own pictures. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 12:46:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA29393 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:46:58 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA15428; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 10:54:04 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA29855 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 10:39:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from tecoma.mccc.edu (tecoma.mccc.edu [198.133.170.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA29207 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 10:38:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from Station1.tecoma.mccc.edu (th119-1.mccc.edu [207.8.248.196]) by tecoma.mccc.edu (8.9.1a/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA13567 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:37:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36951AFF.4F41@mccc.edu> Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 12:37:19 -0800 From: Kate Pinner Organization: MCCC X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Time Period Question References: <000c01be31a7$d2a9dec0$8aa06480@dsc> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kate Pinner Dumb question time. This morning's paper announced that a local Lion's club will be sponsoring a Ren Faire this spring with a local SCA group who dress in medieval costume. What's medieval and what's Rennaisance? When does one stop and the other begin? I know that it depends on the country, but are there any specific signs or dates? Kate _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 12:59:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA29458 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:59:11 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA16882; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 11:08:35 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA05266 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 11:06:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA05245 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 11:06:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA25926 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 10:05:59 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3694F7A0.3E75D7D9@serv.net> Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 10:06:25 -0800 From: Merouda the True X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: SCA-Garb References: <19990107163824.24953.rocketmail@send104.yahoomail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Merouda the True There have been server problems I understand, but the list is alive and well. I received several posts from the list this morning. Cynthia > What ever happened to the SCA-Garb mailing list? It seems that > www.coollist.com is down (and I heard maybe for good). Has anyone > setup a new list somewhere else? If not, I have an account at > www.egroups.com and it could be hosted there. -- Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 13:07:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA29568 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:07:23 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA18433; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 11:16:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA06717 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 11:14:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA06670 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 11:14:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA25983 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 10:14:09 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3694F98A.1DC34BA3@serv.net> Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 10:14:35 -0800 From: Merouda the True X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: I'm crazy References: <199901070721.XAA09062@smtp.pacifier.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Merouda the True > As one of the people who will be on the judging panel for the contest > she's talking about, I promise not to eat her. I promise not to let > the other judges eat her. I've never bitten anyone in the 13 years > I've been judging this contest and I don't plan on starting now. Hmmmmm, don't think that was my fear, but maybe deeeeeeep down.Actually, my fear is that I'm rushing things. But I feel better today. > have an "overall" winner), but you all can cross your fingers for > her! Oh yes please do. I received two posts this morning that absolutely almost brought me to tears of happiness and a *blush*. This was one of them. You honor me with your kind words, Mistress. Till Saturday then, Cynthia -- Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 13:22:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA29695 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:22:21 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA20414; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 11:31:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA09392 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 11:29:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp3.erols.com (smtp3.erols.com [207.172.3.236]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA09365 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 11:29:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from clough (207-172-59-230.s261.tnt13.brd.erols.com [207.172.59.230]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA04404 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:29:00 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:29:00 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199901071829.NAA04404@smtp3.erols.com> X-Sender: clough@pop.erols.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda and Larry Clough Subject: Re: H-COST: Fwd: Natural dyes Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Brenda and Larry Clough At 08:45 AM 1/7/99 -0800, you wrote: > >-Poster: Lisa Scovel > >Another question from a reader.... Any ideas? >> >>Hi,I'm trying to find a school or university with classes in the >>lost artwork of natural dyes used for clothes,and to give color to >>everything found in all textiles.Are there any resources to find a >>school or an apprenticeship in this trade? > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > I am told that the University of Texas in Austin does a lot of dyeing work, in conjunction with the theater department. (I know this because somebody there offered to get an entire batch of fabric dyed for a charity project, in the department's dyeing facility.) Regards, Brenda -- Brenda Clough, author of HOW LIKE A GOD, a science fiction novel from Tor Books _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 13:59:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA30354 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:59:40 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA24265; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:04:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA15050 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:02:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from proxy4.ba.best.com (root@proxy4.ba.best.com [206.184.139.15]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA15030 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:02:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from best.com (lavolta.vip.best.com [206.86.95.234]) by proxy4.ba.best.com (8.9.1/8.9.0/best.out) with ESMTP id LAA09527 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 11:00:03 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36950228.CA5F7EA@best.com> Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 10:51:20 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays References: <36925029.D4CBB17B@best.com> <4.1.19990106232920.00b96100@pop.slip.net> <3694C347.F46BBBE5@nash.tds.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lavolta Press Kent & Kat wrote: > -Poster: Kent & Kat > > Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > > > I have real trouble believing actual 15" waists. There is a lot > > of in-period talking about this, and even stories about women > > who supposedly had them. I remain unconvinced. My Sweetie has > > a neck bigger than 15". > > I have understood it for some time having spent my youth > roaming through historical houses & looking at the clothing > (among other things...my dad is a historian so we would get > toooons of info about who lived in the house...hmmm, wonder > if he can find the time to do the same with our kids?). I'm > 5'8" but even when I was shorter it was pretty obvious that > the women were much, much shorter than I am. Remember that > nutrition wasn't all that hot back in the good 'ole days and > while some women had real female figures (my dh looooves > Rubanesque! ) a number of them did not. Think how > small a supermodal's waist must be and then factor down for > the fact that most modals are considered tall for today's > standards as opposed to the norms of yesteryear. When you > get a chance to actually look at clothing from earlier > periods it's amazing how much smaller they are...even just > looking in a vintage clothing store will show you...I've > seen stuff that *might* fit my daughter width-wise and she's > only five! > > Kat > There are plenty of short women around in the 1990s. It's not entirely due to nutrition; it's also heredity. I'm 4'9" and I grew up with normal middle-class nutrition. But my parents are short, my brother is short, my grandparents were short, and most of my aunts, uncles and cousins are short. Anyway, I'm about as short as an adult can get within the bounds of medical "norms." Not that it's uncommon in San Francisco, which has a large Oriental population (I'm not Oriental though). I eat wholesome food, get lots of exercise, am in great health, and am within my normal weight range according to the charts. There is _no way_ I, as an adult, could have a 15" waist. At least not without serious corseting. I don't really remember my measurements as a teenager, but I think that by the time I was 16 or 17 I had pretty much my adult figure. The closest I know anyone to have come to a 15" waist is a slightly taller acquaintance who claims to be an ex-model and also claims to have a 21" waist, which she tells everyone as soon as she meets them and often thereafter. She looks pretty gaunt, so I'd say her hobby is certainly dieting. As far as I know she does not wear corsets. I think modern people are sometimes unaware the nuances of period teenage or younger clothing as compared to adult. Some of the clothes that look so small actually didn't belong to adults. Also, of course, devices such as hoops and bustles, plus garments that look wide at the shoulders, can dramatically narrow the waist visually without changing the actual measurements. Fran ---------------------------------------------- Visit our web sites! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.best.com/~lavolta/index.htm Vintage and historic dance http://www.best.com/~lavolta/dance/index.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 14:00:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA30420 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:00:30 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA24980; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:09:53 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA15997 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:07:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from m23.boston.juno.com (m23.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.188]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA15986 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:07:21 -0700 (MST) From: seamstrix@juno.com Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m23.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id DYDQYTEX; Thu, 07 Jan 1999 14:06:57 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:45:46 -0600 Subject: Re: H-COST: Stays, skeletons and girdles Message-ID: <19990107.125415.25342.21.seamstrix@juno.com> References: <19990107124115.7134.rocketmail@send204.yahoomail.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 8-11 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: seamstrix@juno.com I wear an Elizabethan corset for long periods of time during the summer and while I haven't seen any lasting physical changes, I have noticed some 'deportment' changes. I find it very easy to maintain 'perfect posture' after I have been wearing my corset (when you can't bend your thorasic vertabrae or slouch, your body gets used to not doing it). I also tend to perch on the edge of the chair (with the bum roll it is difficult to sit back in many chairs) and have a mild tendency to balk at going thru openings where my farthingale wouldn't fit until I remind my self that I'm not wearing it. Karen _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 14:07:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA30544 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:07:31 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA26005; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:16:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA17061 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:14:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from fw2.roguewave.com (firewall-user@fw2.roguewave.com [208.151.233.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA17028 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:14:05 -0700 (MST) Received: by fw2.roguewave.com; id LAA04858; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 11:09:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from cvo1.cvo.roguewave.com(10.68.4.36) via SMTP by net.indra.com, id smtpd004846; Thu Jan 7 11:09:40 1999 Received: by cvo1.cvo.roguewave.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 11:14:38 -0800 Message-ID: From: Betsy Perry To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Skeletons and stays Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 11:14:37 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Betsy Perry The sizes of vintage humans and the sizes of vintage clothes are related, but not identical. As has been pointed out on this list before, large clothes can be remade to fit another, possibly smaller, wearer, and so on until they wear out. Small clothes are harder to reuse, and therefore have a slightly higher chance of surviving. For related reasons, some periods' clothes are very rare: the pattern lines lent themselves to remaking, and people took advantage of this. (See Janet Arnold's comments on the rarity of the 1866-1867 stone satin dress in Patterns of Fashion.) There's a lot of good research that persuades me that human stature has indeed been increasing over the centuries. I would be less certain if surviving clothing were the only marker. --- Elizabeth Hanes Perry Rogue Wave Software _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 14:17:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA30726 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:17:31 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA27010; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:26:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA18480 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:24:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from isis.netherworld.com (isis.Netherworld.COM [199.165.233.10]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA18465 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:23:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost by isis.netherworld.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA21581 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:15:45 -0700 (MST) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:15:42 -0700 (MST) From: Sylvia Rognstad To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays In-Reply-To: <36950228.CA5F7EA@best.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sylvia Rognstad Re 15" waists, anyone know how small Vampira's waist was in her corset? It looked like about 15" to me. For that matter, anyone old enough besides me to remember Vampira? Sylvia R _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 14:32:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA30963 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:32:51 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA28992; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:42:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA20831 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:39:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.cho.org (mail.cho.org [209.77.137.36]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id MAA20820 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:39:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35]) by mail.cho.org; Thu, 07 Jan 1999 11:39:30 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: ldownward@198.211.240.120 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <36950228.CA5F7EA@best.com> Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 11:43:45 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lynn Downward Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lynn Downward >-Poster: Sylvia Rognstad > >Re 15" waists, anyone know how small Vampira's waist was in her corset? >It looked like about 15" to me. For that matter, anyone old enough >besides me to remember Vampira? >Sylvia R > I remember her froom "Plan 9 From Outer Space" and yes, she had a tiny waist, but smaller than my husband's neck?? Well, maybe. LynnD _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 15:07:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA31545 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:07:12 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA02495; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:16:40 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA25904 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:14:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from falcon.canfield.com (root@falcon.canfield.com [206.191.139.20]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA25892 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:14:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from Leslie (u6-12.wa.net [206.191.135.76]) by falcon.canfield.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA32642 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:22:27 -0800 Message-Id: <199901072022.MAA32642@falcon.canfield.com> X-Sender: leslieh@mail.canfield.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 12:06:18 -0800 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Leslie Helms Subject: H-COST: SCA garb list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Leslie Helms The SCA garb list is alive and well. Several of us are on both lists, and the SCA list does provide a little more leeway for discussing society-specific topics. When I'm suggesting a list to a new enthusiast, I usually recommend joining sca-garb first until they get their bearings. I don't know why http://www.coollist.com wouldn't be working. Keep trying. Leslie/Larisa _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 15:27:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA31886 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:27:29 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA05042; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:36:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA00446 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:34:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA00417 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:34:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p28.directcon.net [206.170.184.77]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA17982 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:30:25 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:30:25 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901072030.MAA17982@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: help with men's and women's German Ren Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson I wouldn't try to slash velvet. If >you want slashed sleeves use a good felted wool. It won't ravel and velvet will >ravel like crazy if you slash and not finish off the edges. I've had no problem at all with slashing velvet, as long as the slashes are on the bias--but that's necessary for any woven fabric unless it's a heavily fulled wool. If you look at period garmets, the edges are supposed to look ravelly, just not fall apart. By the early 17th century, there are examples of brocades woven with fake slashes, complete with ravelled edges. I usually cut slashes with an Exacto knife. Some people swear by rotary cutters. The other day I was at a specialty quilting and sewing store and they had a tool called a "slash cutter"! which looked somewhat like a rotary cutter. Unfortunately my kids started acting up and I found it needful to get out FAST! I'll go back without them on Saturday, if it seems to be a useful gizmo I'll let you all know. Margo Anderson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 15:41:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA32191 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:41:07 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA06341; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:50:32 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA02805 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:48:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA02797 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:48:06 -0700 (MST) From: Seton1355@aol.com Received: from Seton1355@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id UWMUa19751 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:47:16 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3824b004.36951d54@aol.com> Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:47:16 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: H-COST: in the back of THREADS magzine Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 236 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Seton1355@aol.com Go out & buy an issue of THREADS magazine. (This can be gotten at most new stands or JoAnne's Fabrics or ClothWorld or the like) Anyway, in the back of the magazine are advertisments for such courses..... Phillipa In a message dated 1/7/99 11:45:51 AM Eastern Standard Time, reenactment.guide@miningco.com writes: > Hi,I'm trying to find a school or university with classes in the > >lost artwork of natural dyes _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 15:45:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA32267 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:45:24 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA06699; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:54:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA03446 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:52:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA03438 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:52:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p28.directcon.net [206.170.184.77]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA20059 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:48:26 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:48:26 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901072048.MAA20059@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Cavalier hats=Sources Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson >"Yes, all my laurels you have riven away >and all my roses; yet in spite of you, >there is one crown I bear away with me, >and tonight, when I enter before God, >my salute shall sweep all the stars away >from the blue threshold! One thing without stain, >unspotted from the world, in spite of doom, >mine own! > >and that is.... my white plume!" > > ~~ Edmond Rostand's Cyrano de Bergerac This translation rather misses the point. The play is often performed in a translation which leaves the last word in French, and therefore leaves the word play intact: "My Panache!" Meaning, of course, his general air of style, dash, and flair. Margo Anderson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 15:53:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA32355 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:53:53 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA07446; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:03:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA04862 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:00:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from dias.net (dias.net [199.170.176.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA04828 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:00:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (ophelia@localhost) by dias.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA09700 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:08:36 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from ophelia@dias.net) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:08:35 -0600 (CST) From: "Sara J. Davitt" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: looking for seamstress. In-Reply-To: <36940873.5FC37855@pacbell.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Sara J. Davitt" OK, I have a bishops cassock that I would like to have adapted into a jacket. Anyone up to the task?... I would supply the fabric, and the cassock, and how much would this cost? Thanks! (Please relpy Off-List) Sarahj _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 16:00:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA32483 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 16:00:18 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA07993; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:08:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA05801 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:06:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from rainey.blueneptune.com (root@rainey.blueneptune.com [209.133.45.253]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA05777 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:06:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from BlueNeptune.Com (ppp146.blueneptune.com [209.133.45.146]) by rainey.blueneptune.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA23225 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:06:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from BlackCat@BlueNeptune.Com) Message-ID: <3695218B.ED3F7E22@BlueNeptune.Com> Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 13:05:15 -0800 From: "BlackCat =^..^=" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Time Period Question References: <000c01be31a7$d2a9dec0$8aa06480@dsc> <36951AFF.4F41@mccc.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "BlackCat =^..^=" > Dumb question time. This morning's paper announced that a local Lion's > club will be sponsoring a Ren Faire this spring with a local SCA group > who dress in medieval costume. What's medieval and what's Rennaisance? > When does one stop and the other begin? I know that it depends on the > country, but are there any specific signs or dates? This is one that professional historians can't even agree on... Generally the beginning of the middle ages is agreed to be 476 AD when Romulus Augustulus was deposed as Emperor and the western Roman Empire fell into "barbarian" rule. The beginning of the Renaissance occurs in the second half of the 15th century. The eastern half of the Roman Empire fell in Constantinople was conquered in 1453 by the Turks. This forced the educated elite (among others) of Byzantium to flee back into the rest of Europe. They brought with them ideas and knowledge that had been forgotten in the 'barbaric' west. I prefer to see the Renaissance as a gradual event that traveled across Europe like the ripple from a pebble thrown in a pond. Italy was the first to undergo the Renaissance, but it took decades for it's effects to fully filter through northern Europe. As to the end of the Renaissance, the Thirty Years War and the English Civil War seem to be good stopping points, although some historians stretch it as far as the 18th century. Hope this helps. --Chris _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 16:08:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA32619 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 16:08:13 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA09119; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:15:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA07070 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:13:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.rdc1.nj.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.nj.home.com [24.3.128.66]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA07039 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:13:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from CC1010062-A.avnl1.nj.home.com ([24.3.134.203]) by mail.rdc1.nj.home.com (InterMail v4.0 201-221-107) with SMTP id <19990107211324.JQOX2583.mail.rdc1.nj.home.com@CC1010062-A.avnl1.nj.home.com>; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:13:24 -0800 Message-ID: <022301be3a83$16e22a00$cb860318@CC1010062-A.avnl1.nj.home.com> From: "Kyna Grannd" To: Cc: Subject: H-COST: Coming at the MET in NYC Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 16:17:10 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0220_01BE3A59.2DD9C760" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Kyna Grannd" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0220_01BE3A59.2DD9C760 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Something of interest coming up at the Met in NYC: January 14, 1999 =97 March 28, 1999 The court of Ferrara, presided over by a series of Este = dukes in the 15th and 16th centuries, was one of the leading centers of Renaissance = art and learning. Dosso Dossi (ca. 1486/7=971542) was the greatest and most imaginative of = the city=92s 16th-century painters, and one of the most alluring of all north Italian painters = of the generation following Giorgione. This will be the first monographic exhibition = of his work and will include some 60 paintings carefully chosen to reflect the quality of = the artist=92s achievement. Principal artist to Dukes Alphonso I and Ercole II from 1514, Dosso = worked alongside Titian in the most important commission of the period, and developed a = singular style that was well attuned to the cultural ambitions of the court. Featuring = rarely lent masterpieces from collections in America and Europe =97 above all the = Borghese Gallery in Rome =97 the exhibition will offer a unique opportunity to experience = the full scope of Dosso=92s work, not seen since the end of Este rule in the late 16th century.=20 The exhibition is made possible in part by The Andrew W. = Mellon Foundation. The exhibition has been organized by The Metropolitan = Museum of Art, the Ministero per i Beni Culturali e Ambientali (Gallerie Nazionali di = Ferrara, Bologna e Modena), the Comune di Ferrara/Civiche Gallerie d=92Arte Moderna e = Contemporanea, and The J. Paul Getty Museum. The accompanying publication is made possible in part by = The Samuel H. Kress Foundation. Suz _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 16:13:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA32700 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 16:13:26 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA09753; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:22:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA08049 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:19:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com (imo16.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.6]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA08037 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:19:51 -0700 (MST) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo16.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id RKLRa27801 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 16:18:24 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <67ed7ad1.369524a0@aol.com> Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 16:18:24 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Cavalier hats=Sources Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 226 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com Margo, I use the standard English translation, because as a costumer, I enjoy the reference to the "white plume" as being so important to Cyrano in his dying moments. I think the clothing statement it makes is appropriate to my own extremely personal views on costuming. After all, this is only my signature, not anything meant to convey an in-depth study of the work itself. However, I will mention, as long as you felt it necessary to bring it up, that the play is not merely sometimes performed with a French tag line, but it is a French work. Any English translation is only that, a translation. I've read it in the French and I'm familiar with the panache ending. I can quote most of this play from memory, as my father began reading it to me, in character, when I was only 7. If I sound extremely offended, it is because I am. I really don't get where that came from, and am wondering why you felt it necessary to be so publicly condescending. If you did not mean to offend, I do not wish to become embroiled in a series of flames, but I was really taken aback at your post, and am otherwise not having a great day. In a message dated 1/7/1999 12:52:39 Pacific Standard Time, margo@directcon.net writes: << >"Yes, all my laurels you have riven away >and all my roses; yet in spite of you, >there is one crown I bear away with me, >and tonight, when I enter before God, >my salute shall sweep all the stars away >from the blue threshold! One thing without stain, >unspotted from the world, in spite of doom, >mine own! > >and that is.... my white plume!" > > ~~ Edmond Rostand's Cyrano de Bergerac This translation rather misses the point. The play is often performed in a translation which leaves the last word in French, and therefore leaves the word play intact: "My Panache!" Meaning, of course, his general air of style, dash, and flair. >> _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 16:14:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA32708 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 16:14:48 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA09931; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:24:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA08346 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:21:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com (imo14.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA08337; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:21:36 -0700 (MST) From: ZBLGilbert@aol.com Received: from ZBLGilbert@aol.com by imo14.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id AZJYa05501; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 16:20:55 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 16:20:55 EST To: owner-h-costume-digest@indra.com, h-costume-digest@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: H-COST: foundation garments Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 189 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: ZBLGilbert@aol.com Sue says: <" support, posture and the indefinable - "it was >good for you" This strikes a chord in my own memories. Can Dora or anyone else expand on these non shape values ?>> My sense at the time was that women weren't supposed to "bounce." Firm foundation garments prevented that. In addition, as I recall, my girlfriends and I thought that the social popularity of panty girdles was due to the difficulty of hanky panky while wearing them. Zelda _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 16:22:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA00096 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 16:22:50 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA10878; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:31:59 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA09559 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:29:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA09550 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:29:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p28.directcon.net [206.170.184.77]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA24101 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:25:37 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:25:37 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901072125.NAA24101@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: RE: H-COST: Skeletons and stays Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson >As has been pointed out on this list before, large clothes can be remade >to fit another, possibly smaller, wearer, and so on until they wear out. >Small clothes are harder to reuse, and therefore have a slightly higher >chance of surviving. there's also my sister's theory that many garments were bought for troussues (sp?), and worn by young slender women for a few months before they got pregnant, and never got their old figures back. Hence the number of very small surviving garments. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 16:23:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA00103 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 16:23:05 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA11003; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:32:32 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA09638 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:30:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA09632 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:30:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p28.directcon.net [206.170.184.77]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA24146 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:26:08 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:26:08 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901072126.NAA24146@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson At 12:15 PM 1/7/99 -0700, you wrote: > >-Poster: Sylvia Rognstad > >Re 15" waists, anyone know how small Vampira's waist was in her corset? >It looked like about 15" to me. For that matter, anyone old enough >besides me to remember Vampira? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 16:29:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA00198 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 16:29:28 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA12076; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:38:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA10751 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:36:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA10721 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:36:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p28.directcon.net [206.170.184.77]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA24851 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:32:26 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:32:26 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901072132.NAA24851@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson > >Re 15" waists, anyone know how small Vampira's waist was in her corset? >It looked like about 15" to me. For that matter, anyone old enough >besides me to remember Vampira? I remember a Vampira comic book character, but I assume you're talking about a live person? I found myself watching a fitness arobics competition the other night, and I noticed that every single one of those incredibly toned women had what I would consider to be a figure flaw. Their torsos were almost completely tubular, i.e, there was no indentation at the waist at all. I don't know if this is from lack of fat on the hips or overdeveloped muscles in the waist area, but it looks strange to me. If I were visited by the Body Fairy, that wouldn't be the one I'd ask for. (I'd ask for the body of a belly dancer in a book I have). Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 16:34:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA00285 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 16:34:48 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA12562; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:43:44 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA11461 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:41:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from bigred.unl.edu (00217146@bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA11437 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:41:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (00217146@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA10341 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:41:34 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:41:34 -0600 (CST) From: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays In-Reply-To: <199901072132.NAA24851@zeus.directcon.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> > >Re 15" waists, anyone know how small Vampira's waist was in her corset? > >It looked like about 15" to me. For that matter, anyone old enough > >besides me to remember Vampira? > > I remember a Vampira comic book character, but I assume you're talking about > a live person? I remember Vampira, she was in Ed Wood's classic bomb "Plan 9 From Outer Space". I remember (vaguely) seeing somewhere what her waist measurement was, but I don't recall what it was or where I saw it. I'd check the L.I.S.A. page.... _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 16:37:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA00390 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 16:37:08 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA12920; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:46:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA11877 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:43:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA11869 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:43:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p28.directcon.net [206.170.184.77]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA25684 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:39:43 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:39:43 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901072139.NAA25684@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Cavalier hats=Sources Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson If you did not mean to offend, I do not wish to become >embroiled in a series of flames, but I was really taken aback at your post, >and am otherwise not having a great day. Obviously. I did not intend to attack you in any way, simply to share with the rest of the list what I consider to be an excellent sartorial play of words. Margo Anderson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 17:21:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA01123 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:21:22 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA18770; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:30:40 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA20906 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:24:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from hil-img-4.compuserve.com (hil-img-4.compuserve.com [149.174.177.134]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA20522 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:24:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (from root@localhost) by hil-img-4.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.17) id RAA15475 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:23:32 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:23:13 -0500 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: Natural dyes To: "INTERNET:h-costume-digest@indra.com" Message-ID: <199901071723_MC2-65DC-3531@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id RAA01123 Status: O -Poster: Melanie Wilson Have you tried the natural dye list, some people on it run classes I think Mel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 17:27:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA01204 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:27:30 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA19247; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:34:25 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA22290 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:32:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (mailsorter-105.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.95]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA22258 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:31:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailtod-132.iap.bryant.webtv.net (mailtod-132.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.113]) by mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with ESMTP id OAA05487; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:31:50 -0800 (PST) Received: (from production@localhost) by mailtod-132.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/mt.gso.26Feb98) id OAA20622; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:31:50 -0800 (PST) X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAtAhUAstd8mOSRCR163YTiBSq/2QmGAusCFDz5qkdP7mtSEIo4XE67byP8WEaj From: starsinger@webtv.net (theresa sorrell) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:31:49 -0700 (MST) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: SCA-Garb Message-ID: <14643-369535D5-2088@mailtod-132.iap.bryant.webtv.net> In-Reply-To: Jennifer McNitt 's message of Thu, 7 Jan 1999 08:38:24 -0800 (PST) Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: starsinger@webtv.net (theresa sorrell) I'm subscribed to the SCA-garb list and it is still active. Current thread is adapting mundane patterns for period use. Starsinger _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 17:41:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA01436 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:41:21 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA21359; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:50:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA24199 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:42:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from m16.boston.juno.com (m16.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.192]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA24127 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:41:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m16.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id DYD48WZE; Thu, 07 Jan 1999 17:41:05 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays Message-ID: <19990107.142600.4783.0.cley@juno.com> References: <199901072132.NAA24851@zeus.directcon.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 4-8,10-35 From: cley@juno.com (cynthia j ley) Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 17:41:05 EST Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: cley@juno.com (cynthia j ley) Trained singers have the same issue. Our torsos belong on football players. The floating ribs spread permantantly with practice and time, the torso muscles themselves get larger and stronger. As the saying goes, you can annoy a singer by punching them in the stomach, but you'ld probably *hurt* your hand. ;-) Arlys On Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:32:26 -0800 (PST) Margo Anderson writes: > >-Poster: Margo Anderson >I found myself watching a fitness arobics competition the other night, and I >noticed that every single one of those incredibly toned women had what I >would consider to be a figure flaw. Their torsos were almost completely >tubular, i.e, there was no indentation at the waist at all. I don't know if >this is from lack of fat on the hips or overdeveloped muscles in the waist >area, but it looks strange to me. If I were visited by the Body Fairy, that >wouldn't be the one I'd ask for. (I'd ask for the body of a belly dancer in >a book I have). > >Margo > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 17:42:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA01443 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:42:35 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA21450; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:51:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA25191 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:48:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from bigred.unl.edu (00217146@bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA25183 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:48:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (00217146@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA23686 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 16:49:00 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 16:49:00 -0600 (CST) From: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: vintage bra (was stays, skeletons, etc.) In-Reply-To: <19990107.125415.25342.21.seamstrix@juno.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> While we're on an underwear thread, I was wondering if y'all could help me date a vintage bra my mother got in a lot of stuff at an auction. It seems to fit me, so I can give you an idea of the shape it gives. It's pale pink satin, with straps that seem unusually long to me, and it flattens, but not completely. As far as actual construction, (I'm working from memory here, so I may make some slight mistakes) it is a band of satin about four inches wide, with a small dart taken beneath each breast. As I said, the straps seem extremely long, leaving the bust line lower than modern bras do. It closes in back with three hooks and eyes. There is lace inset at the top. If anyone can help, I can give more details when I get home and have it sitting in front of me. Thanks Emma _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 17:57:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA01670 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:57:13 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA23167; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 16:06:47 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA27654 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 16:04:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from artemis.chass.utoronto.ca (artemis.chass.utoronto.ca [128.100.160.6]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA27632 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 16:04:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from dsc (ppp28.chass.utoronto.ca [128.100.160.148]) by artemis.chass.utoronto.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA06752 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 18:05:35 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <003201be3a92$70937220$94a06480@dsc> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: Subject: H-COST: Medieval/Renaissance Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 18:07:01 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Greetings! A few more thoughts on what is "medieval" and what is "Renaissance," from an historical point of view: Generally, historians equate the spread of the "Renaissance" (quotation marks because it wasn't a society-wide phenomenom) to the spread of humanism. Some hallmarks of humanism were interest in classical antiquity and its literature and artifacts, interest in vernacular languages and history or glorification of a particular locale (sometimes termed "civic humanism"), and critical research into texts. Italian humanism had a more secular feel than Northern humanism, but both espoused the same methods. In Italy, humanism traditionally is seen as having its roots in the middle of the fourteenth century, and Petrarch as its first proponent. The movement gained momentum through patronage of humanist scholars in various Italian city-states, and interest in the classical languages, particularly Greek, was helped by the influx of Greek scholars fleeing the tottering Byzantine Empire. The movement spread from there. By the end of the fifteenth century, there were humanist scholars in France, Germany, and the Low Countries, with England joining in during the reign of Henry VIII (although there were inroads before that time). The Renaissance is a classic transitional period in which there is no clear break with the past, but elements of both medieval and modern coexisting within the same society. Some historians with a political or military focus prefer to talk about the "early modern" period, which in England starts around 1485 or so. As far as clothing goes, "Renaissance" usually refers to the clothing worn by the people in the eras I've mentioned above. "Italian Ren" usually means fifteenth and sixteenth century Italian; "English Renaissance" is usually Tudor or Elizabethan. Hope that helps.... Susan Carroll-Clark _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 18:51:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA02491 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 18:51:14 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA28571; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:00:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA06537 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 16:57:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from epicurus.miningco.com (epicurus.miningco.com [207.122.100.23]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id QAA06530 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 16:57:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from LISA [209.162.71.46] by epicurus.miningco.com (AltaVista Mail V2.0/2.0 BL23 listener) id 0000_00fc_3695_58fe_1570; Thu, 07 Jan 1999 20:01:50 -0500 Message-Id: <4.1.19990107153012.009198e0@mail.tmsonline.com> X-Sender: reenactment@mail.miningco.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 15:57:56 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lisa Scovel Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays In-Reply-To: <36950228.CA5F7EA@best.com> References: <36925029.D4CBB17B@best.com> <4.1.19990106232920.00b96100@pop.slip.net> <3694C347.F46BBBE5@nash.tds.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lisa Scovel I really think it depends on how you're built. I come from a line of very small-waisted women, so in my early twenties, at 5'7" and 150 pounds I had a 22"waist, naturally. Pretty tough to find clothes, I tell you, with 40" inch hips and that small of a waist. I was not gaunt, by any means, I am just long-waisted, I guess, with quite a bit of space between the bottom of my ribs and my hips. I never tried corseting, but I've heard it was common to corset 3-5 inches off one's waist, yes? It's not at all hard for me to imagine someone with my build at 5'0 and 100 lbs having a 15" waist, at least if it were corseted. If I my New Year's resolution pans out and I get my waist again, I'll buy a corset and be the h-costume guinea pig, I promise! >I eat wholesome food, get lots of exercise, am in great health, and am >within my normal weight range according to the charts. There is _no >way_ I, as an adult, could have a 15" waist. At least not without >serious corseting. I don't really remember my measurements as a >teenager, but I think that by the time I was 16 or 17 I had pretty much >my adult figure. The closest I know anyone to have come to a 15" waist >is a slightly taller acquaintance who claims to be an ex-model and also >claims to have a 21" waist, which she tells everyone as soon as she >meets them and often thereafter. She looks pretty gaunt, so I'd say her >hobby is certainly dieting. As far as I know she does not wear corsets. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 18:54:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA02504 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 18:54:10 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA28905; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:03:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA07099 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:01:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from tor-smtp1.netcom.ca (tor-smtp1.netcom.ca [207.181.101.69]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA07064 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:01:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from default (trt-on12-25.netcom.ca [207.181.84.89]) by tor-smtp1.netcom.ca (8.8.7-s-4/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA14258 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 19:00:45 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <008001be3a9a$ae83cb40$5954b5cf@default> From: "David Stamper & Eve Harris" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Jerkin/doublet (was:Shakespeare In Love) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 19:06:02 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "David Stamper & Eve Harris" [these are usually sleeveless] with same fabric & trim. In some portraits you >can hardly tell there's a jerkin at all.....the only clues being two sets of >tabs at the waist & armseye & if left unbuttoned [also probably more the case >with these matching jerkins] the 2 sets of buttons & holes. I believe in Janet >Arnold there is a silk brocade jerkin that is too narrow to button up...the >buttons & holes being purely decorative. Yes - the green silk brocatelle one. Representative of a early 17th century fashion of purposely unbuttoned (unbraced?) jerkins. There's a wonderful little portrait in Patterns of Fashion showing a similar arrangement - Henry, Prince of Wales with his jerkin unbuttoned. Eve Harris _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 18:57:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA02577 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 18:57:11 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA29279; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:06:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA07510 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:04:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from send103.yahoomail.com (send103.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.92]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id RAA07490 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:04:10 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <19990108000542.2655.rocketmail@send103.yahoomail.com> Received: from [153.35.254.105] by send103.yahoomail.com; Thu, 07 Jan 1999 16:05:42 PST Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 16:05:42 -0800 (PST) From: "Kristen M. Sieber" Subject: H-COST: Sneed pattern To: Historic Costume , Historic Needlework MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Kristen M. Sieber" Does anybody have, or know where I can get, a crochet snood pattern? Kristen M. Sieber lady_gawain@yahoo.com _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 19:03:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA02667 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 19:03:35 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA29965; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:13:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA09092 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:10:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from epicurus.miningco.com (epicurus.miningco.com [207.122.100.23]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id RAA09010 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:10:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from LISA [209.162.71.46] by epicurus.miningco.com (AltaVista Mail V2.0/2.0 BL23 listener) id 0000_00fc_3695_5bfb_2396; Thu, 07 Jan 1999 20:14:35 -0500 Message-Id: <4.1.19990107160945.00974430@mail.tmsonline.com> X-Sender: reenactment@mail.miningco.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 16:10:52 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lisa Scovel Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990107153012.009198e0@mail.tmsonline.com> References: <36950228.CA5F7EA@best.com> <36925029.D4CBB17B@best.com> <4.1.19990106232920.00b96100@pop.slip.net> <3694C347.F46BBBE5@nash.tds.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lisa Scovel Found this on the Web: A compelling question is of course, how tightly were the corsets laced? There are many reports of waists between 18 and 14 inches - even 12 inch waists are mentioned. [Steele, p. 163] However, it is believed that most accounts of these very small waists represent fantasies. Measurements of corsets in museum collections indicate that most corsets of the period 1860 to 1910 measured from 20 to 22 inches. Furthermore, those sizes do not indicate how tightly the corsets were laced. They could easily have been laced out by several inches, and probably were, because it was prestigious to buy small corsets. So ordinary corsets were not so tight after all, and contrary to common belief, the construction of the corset with the metal busk for front closure and the lacing in the back, enabled the bearer to lace herself in. She did not need a maid or husband to help her. Severe tight-lacing was practiced, and some corsetieres specialized in cultivating very small waists. Some men developed a fetish for small waists, a fetish which was regarded as quite acceptable. Small waists and the corset probably played about the same role as full breasts and the Wonderbra play today. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 19:11:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA02813 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 19:11:34 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA00900; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:21:04 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA11430 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:18:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA11384 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:18:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA27172 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 16:18:34 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36954EF3.4D8F4852@serv.net> Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 16:19:00 -0800 From: Merouda the True X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Sneed pattern References: <19990108000542.2655.rocketmail@send103.yahoomail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Merouda the True http://crocheting.com/ Lots of free crochet patterns here. Cynthia Kristen M. Sieber wrote: > -Poster: "Kristen M. Sieber" > > Does anybody have, or know where I can get, a crochet snood pattern? > > Kristen M. Sieber > lady_gawain@yahoo.com > _________________________________________________________ > DO YOU YAHOO!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME -- Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 19:28:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA03045 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 19:28:06 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA02552; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:37:31 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA16200 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:35:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from send102.yahoomail.com (send102.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.90]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id RAA16148 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:35:00 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <19990108003615.181.rocketmail@send102.yahoomail.com> Received: from [153.35.254.105] by send102.yahoomail.com; Thu, 07 Jan 1999 16:36:15 PST Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 16:36:15 -0800 (PST) From: "Kristen M. Sieber" Subject: H-COST: SNOOD pattern To: Historic Costume , Historic Needlework MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Kristen M. Sieber" How embarassing, of course the subject line should have said SNOOD not SNEED. That's what I get for not proofreading! Kristen M. Sieber lady_gawain@yahoo.com _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 19:29:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA03052 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 19:29:04 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA02694; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:38:25 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA16496 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:36:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA16480 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:36:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.173] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 0zyPuF-0001lb-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 16:36:04 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990107001814.00ba5920@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19990107001814.00ba5920@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 00:26:52 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Shakespeare/anachronisms In-Reply-To: <0ad601be3a15$3f8ecd00$1db51acb@wayne-s-pc> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >>Of course the doublet should be laced at the waist to the hose....no? This >>makes the "trunk hose and just a shirt" look very suspect to me. > >The hose that my husband wears in both 1525 and 1640 reenactment are both of >the type that tie to the doublet. However, that doesn't mean that they are >not worn without the doublet. With these types of hose, the ties are through >the waistband (which are not usually of the same material as the hose, BTW). >These waistbands tend to be tailored to fit the wearer, so are able to be >worn without the doublet without overly exposing oneself. There is quite >often a point tied across the front of the band as well, which can be seen >in the oft-quoted Arnold, Patterns of Fashion, to hold the front in. There are some woodcuts (German) by Jost Amman showing the back of the "pants unit" left unlaced from the "jacket unit" during strenuous movement (generic names used on purpose). This implies a certain level of fit, or this practice would impede movement not allow for it. If the "pants" didn't fit at least some on their own they'd fall down. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 19:32:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA03124 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 19:32:13 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA03178; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:41:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA12657 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:22:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from isis.netherworld.com (isis.Netherworld.COM [199.165.233.10]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA12589 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:22:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost by isis.netherworld.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA25446 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:14:31 -0700 (MST) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:14:29 -0700 (MST) From: Sylvia Rognstad To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sylvia Rognstad What's the L.I.S.A. page? On Thu, 7 Jan 1999, Emma Elizabeth Lehman wrote: > > -Poster: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> > > > > >Re 15" waists, anyone know how small Vampira's waist was in her corset? > > >It looked like about 15" to me. For that matter, anyone old enough > > >besides me to remember Vampira? > > > > I remember a Vampira comic book character, but I assume you're talking about > > a live person? > > I remember Vampira, she was in Ed Wood's classic bomb "Plan 9 From Outer > Space". I remember (vaguely) seeing somewhere what her waist measurement > was, but I don't recall what it was or where I saw it. I'd check the > L.I.S.A. page.... > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > Divinity Designs http://www.d-e-designs.com/divinity/ 515 Manhattan Drive, #203 sylvia@netherworld.com Boulder, CO 80303 USA complete catalog on website _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 19:43:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA03279 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 19:43:48 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA04355; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:53:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA18860 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:50:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.LCIA.COM (croombaptistchurch.org [207.30.138.60]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA18840 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:50:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from woodenporch.com ([209.26.68.81]) by mail2.LCIA.COM (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52462U2500L250S0V35) with ESMTP id COM for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 19:53:20 -0500 Message-ID: <36955625.672F4764@woodenporch.com> Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 19:51:25 -0500 From: Lois X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Shakespeare In Love References: <199901070721.XAA15483@smtp.pacifier.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lois kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > For a description of the layers worn in Elizabethan costuming, I > would suggest C. Willett Cunnington and Phillis Cunnington's book on > Clothing in the 16th Century. It's not available on any booksearches > for sale, but most of the better textile, costuming and drama > libraries usually have a copy. I got my copy done by the UofW from > their drama library (back in the days when they would copy whole out > of print books for scholarly use.) > > Kat You won't find Cunnington's book as Clothing in the 16th Century. The title is Handbook of English Costume in the 16th Century. That may be why you can not find it. Lois > > > Kat(June Russell) > kat@grendal.rain.com > Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME -- Lois Mueller Wooden Porch Books books@woodenporch.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 20:27:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA03955 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:27:29 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA08204; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 18:35:44 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA23483 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 18:33:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA23468 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 18:33:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.185] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 0zyQne-0004QQ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:33:19 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990107171943.00b9b880@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19990107171943.00b9b880@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 17:22:52 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: foundation garments In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >My sense at the time was that women weren't supposed to "bounce." Firm >foundation garments prevented that. In addition, as I recall, my girlfriends >and I thought that the social popularity of panty girdles was due to the >difficulty of hanky panky while wearing them. Women weren't supposed to bounce. Look up the phrase 'loose woman'. No corset can entirely prevent 'hanky panky'. Shakespeare In Love shows that pretty clearly. In my (somewhat limited) experience, most 'hanky panky' occours above the waist... Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 20:27:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA03960 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:27:47 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA08180; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 18:35:40 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA23467 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 18:33:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA23457 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 18:33:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.185] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 0zyQnc-0004QQ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:33:17 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990107165438.00b8c5e0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 17:32:22 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: H-COST: 15" waists - any surviving garments? In-Reply-To: <3694C347.F46BBBE5@nash.tds.net> References: <36925029.D4CBB17B@best.com> <4.1.19990106232920.00b96100@pop.slip.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows I own an 1898 bodice which is so small that the smaller of my daughters couldn't wear it after she was about 5 or 6 (I tried it on her once about then). The waist is about 22" measured by the waist band, hook to eye. And I have looked at the waist measurements of the garments in Nancy Bradfield's Costume In Detail, which go back to the 1700's. I believe 22"-teensy, I just don't believe 15"-teensy. If this were anything like common I would expect to encounter more teensy-waist antique garments in collections. I have seen none. Has anyone else on this list? (real question here, not rhetorical - I really want to know) BTW, the daughter in question is the one who had inherited the small bones my Mother has, not the big 'German' bones I have. I wanted to know when this one's uncorsetted waist would grow larger than 18", so I kept track of that measurement. By the time she was two it was 20". She is and always has been short and small. >> I have real trouble believing actual 15" waists. and When you >get a chance to actually look at clothing from earlier >periods it's amazing how much smaller they are...even just >looking in a vintage clothing store will show you...I've >seen stuff that *might* fit my daughter width-wise and she's >only five! Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 21:07:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA04614 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 21:07:05 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA11669; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 19:16:25 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA28109 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 19:14:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from ms1.dgsys.com (ms1.dgsys.com [204.97.64.22]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA28103 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 19:14:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from dgs.dgsys.com (robin@hme-dgs.dgsys.com [207.154.14.2]) by ms1.dgsys.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA03769 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 21:13:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by dgs.dgsys.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA28559 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 21:13:38 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: dgs.dgsys.com: robin owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 21:13:38 -0500 (EST) From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 15" waists - any surviving garments? In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990107165438.00b8c5e0@pop.slip.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Robin Netherton On Thu, 7 Jan 1999, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > I believe 22"-teensy, I just don't believe 15"-teensy. If this were > anything like common I would expect to encounter more teensy-waist antique > garments in collections. I have seen none. Has anyone else on this list? I was under the impression that the contemporary references to things like 15" waists were actually referring to the *corset* size, which was measured in inches, and that a gap of as much as six inches could be left between the edges when the corset was worn. It would thus make sense for women to refer to their size as a "15-inch waist" the same way we talk about being a "size 12" or a "33 inseam" or whatever. Today, unfamiliar with this specialized use of "inch," we hear or read a quote saying "15-inch waist" and we automatically think of actual inch measurements around the waist. I wish I had a source for that, but it's something I read long ago and filed away in my mind as an interesting bit of trivia -- this is not my period of study. Perhaps someone else can confirm? I wonder if old Sears catalogs had sizing information :-) --Robin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 21:30:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA04933 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 21:30:01 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA13595; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 19:38:29 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA00504 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 19:36:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (mailsorter-105.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.95]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA00494 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 19:36:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailtod-132.iap.bryant.webtv.net (mailtod-132.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.113]) by mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with ESMTP id SAA22115; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 18:36:04 -0800 (PST) Received: (from production@localhost) by mailtod-132.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/mt.gso.26Feb98) id SAA02289; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 18:36:03 -0800 (PST) X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAtAhUAubMEC9n6LUmO/qG6zvVEkElswmcCFCYp2bUeLvqeC9K+E1ZQ9kbkJpLw From: starsinger@webtv.net (theresa sorrell) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 19:36:03 -0700 (MST) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: SCA-Garb list Message-ID: <14656-36956F13-60@mailtod-132.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=ISO-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from Quoted-Printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id VAA04933 Status: O -Poster: starsinger@webtv.net (theresa sorrell) The following is what I got when I joined the SCA-Garb List. I believe this is the list when I had problems of verifing my desire to join that forwarding the notice got me on. Hope this is of some help to those of you who are interested. If there are problems let me know and I'll forward your name and address to the list for joining. Starsinger Date:    Mon, Sep 28, 1998, 7:18pm (MST+3) To:    starsinger@webtv.net (theresa sorrell) From:    sca-garb@coollist.com Subject:    You have been subscribed Note: This is an automated Response Congratulations! You have been subscribed to the sca-garb list. To post to this list, just email your posting to "sca-garb@coollist.com" To unsubscribe from this list, just send a blank email to:       unsubscribe@coollist.com If you did not ask to be subscribed, please send this email to nospam@coollist.com If you encounter any problems at all, email support@coollist.com Thank you and Have fun! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 21:41:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA05185 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 21:41:35 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA14540; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 19:50:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA01821 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 19:48:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from vail.telesensory.com ([12.7.233.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA01815 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 19:48:36 -0700 (MST) Received: by vail with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 18:49:20 -0800 Message-ID: From: "Vickers, Jill" To: "'h-costume'" Subject: H-COST: Resource Books Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 18:49:20 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Vickers, Jill" I'm interested in starting a historic costume reference library, but as a costuming newbie (although long-time sewer), I'm not sure what to start with. Could someone please tell me what the top five or so books are that are considered "must haves" (and hopefully currently in print!) for those just starting out? I am most interested in the general references that span several periods, as well as books specifically on the Elizabethan and Early Victorian periods. Thanks, -Jill _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 21:53:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA05362 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 21:53:57 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA15536; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:03:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA02979 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:00:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA02972 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:00:54 -0700 (MST) From: Morghana@aol.com Received: from Morghana@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id GBYNa03539 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 21:55:57 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <27de08c5.369573bd@aol.com> Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 21:55:57 EST To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #22 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 38 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Morghana@aol.com In a message dated 99-01-07 19:51:53 EST, writes: << - -Poster: starsinger@webtv.net (theresa sorrell) I'm subscribed to the SCA-garb list and it is still active. Current thread is adapting mundane patterns for period use. Starsinge >> So how does one get on this list? The web page (which I assume you must use to subscribe) has been down for days now...... I've checked at all hours and have never gotten through. Is there another way to subscribe beyond a web interface? ~Morghana _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 21:57:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA05442 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 21:57:35 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA15952; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:07:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA03359 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:04:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [209.48.224.31]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA03349 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:04:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from lindo (port41.annex7.radix.net [207.226.55.41]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id WAA02000 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 22:04:48 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.0.1.19990104205845.00e7a560@pop.radix.net> X-Sender: lindo@pop.radix.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 21:03:10 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kevin + Mara Riley Subject: Re: H-COST: wool allergies In-Reply-To: <199812281814.KAA23582@zeus.directcon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kevin + Mara Riley My personal history with allergies is that I didn't have horrible allergies until we lived near a cotton field for a few years (when I was in 2nd/3rd grade) and got the overspray from the crop dusters. Now my allergies are horrible. Also, I find that I'm gluten intolerant and lactose intolerant -- but if I avoid wheat products, I can handle more milk products, so the gluten allergy exacerbates the milk allergy. Interesting, considering what a very small part of the diet wheat was in the Scottish Highlands. (They ate more barley, and LOTS of milk products.) Likewise, many people on the Sheltie listserv find that their dogs' skin and sometimes behavior problems go away when they put the dog on a wheat- and corn-free diet. (Wheat and corn are the most commonly used fillers in dog food.) I think many of us are allergic because of overexposure to chemicals. I wish there were some serious attention to this problem ... Mara At 10:14 AM 12/28/1998 -0800, you wrote: > >-Poster: Margo Anderson > > >>In my case, touching wool is rather like pouring acid on my hands, which >>inflame instantly on contact. Fortunately, thoroughly rinsing the >>affected area seems to take care of it. It doesn't seem to matter if the >>wool is very fine or very coarse, or in between. Sounds silly, but I >>think this problem developed after a particularly bad case of some Asian >>flu virus a number of years ago; before that, I could wear wool with >>impunity! >> >>Now this is fascinating! I've just been reading Michael Oldstone's >Viruses, Plagues, and History. One of the intresting points is that >influenza viruses usually originate in animals and cross over to humans. >(The Spanish Influenza that killed millions at the end of WWI has been >traced to a pig farm, for example). I wonder if the virus you had >originated in sheep? > >Margo > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > Kevin + Mara Riley Home Page http://www.radix.net/~lindo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 22:17:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA05751 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 22:17:52 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA17934; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:27:14 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA05644 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:25:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA05630 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:24:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (pilot [129.127.36.15]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id NAA16405 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 13:54:54 +1030 (CST) Received: by pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.61+IDA+MU/UA-5.23) id AA24269; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 13:54:54 +1030 Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 13:54:53 +1030 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant X-Sender: csmart@pilot To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 15" waists - any surviving garments? In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990107165438.00b8c5e0@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Thu, 7 Jan 1999, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > > I own an 1898 bodice which is so small that the smaller of my daughters > couldn't wear it after she was about 5 or 6 (I tried it on her once about > then). The waist is about 22" measured by the waist band, hook to eye. > And I have looked at the waist measurements of the garments in Nancy > Bradfield's Costume In Detail, which go back to the 1700's. > > I believe 22"-teensy, I just don't believe 15"-teensy. If this were > anything like common I would expect to encounter more teensy-waist antique > garments in collections. I have seen none. Has anyone else on this list? > (real question here, not rhetorical - I really want to know) > About three years ago when I was somewhat thinner I had a 24-inch waist at my skinny times of the month. I think it wouldn't be too unrealistic for me to have corsetted myself down to 22", though I've never worn Victorian style corsets so I couldn't say. I am short admittedly, but not especially fine boned (I meet plenty of women more petite than me), and very curvy. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 22:22:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA05829 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 22:22:03 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA18233; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:31:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA06039 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:29:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from proxy4.ba.best.com (root@proxy4.ba.best.com [206.184.139.15]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA06023 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:29:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from best.com (lavolta.vip.best.com [206.86.95.234]) by proxy4.ba.best.com (8.9.1/8.9.0/best.out) with ESMTP id TAA25158 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 19:28:49 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36957965.3D36F011@best.com> Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 19:20:05 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 15" waists - any surviving garments? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lavolta Press Robin Netherton wrote: > -Poster: Robin Netherton > > On Thu, 7 Jan 1999, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > > I believe 22"-teensy, I just don't believe 15"-teensy. If this were > > anything like common I would expect to encounter more teensy-waist antique > > garments in collections. I have seen none. Has anyone else on this list? Not that belonged to adults. There is significant evidence, other than surviving garments, available for the Victorian and Edwardian periods. Many tailors and dressmakers developed and published pattern-drafting "systems" that included what they thought, from professional experience, were "standard" measurements for given heights. Much like the size charts on modern pattern envelopes. The accuracy of any "system" was an important marketing point, because the whole idea was to build more fit into the pattern and spend less time fitting the garment on the wearer. There are also size charts available for various paper pattern companies, either in their sewing manuals (which many of them published) or on the pattern envelopes. > > > I was under the impression that the contemporary references to things like > 15" waists were actually referring to the *corset* size, which was > measured in inches, and that a gap of as much as six inches could be left > between the edges when the corset was worn. It would thus make sense for > women to refer to their size as a "15-inch waist" the same way we talk > about being a "size 12" or a "33 inseam" or whatever. Today, unfamiliar > with this specialized use of "inch," we hear or read a quote saying > "15-inch waist" and we automatically think of actual inch measurements > around the waist. > Also, people do wishfully exaggerate their measurements. When I studied clothing design I remember people teaming up to take each others' measurements for slopers. The instructor told everyone they had to take accurate measurements and if the sloper didn't fit right the person (the wearer) who made it would have to fix it. Just the same there were a lot of people saying things like, "That's not my real waist size, I just ate a big dinner last night. Write it down as thus-and-so." And the art of retouching photos is as old as photography, not to mention painting flattering portraits. The topic "Were people really smaller 'then'?" and in particular, "Did they really have super-small waists 'then'?" seems to be a perennial on h-costume. I'm not criticising anyone, but I do wonder why. Because it seems many people _want_ to believe in the tiny-waist myths, despite the fact that, as far as I know, no one has come up with much real evidence. Most people on this list at least know what corseting, and possibly modern diet-and-exercise programs, can do for them personally. Fran ---------------------------------------------- Visit our web sites! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.best.com/~lavolta/index.htm Vintage and historic dance http://www.best.com/~lavolta/dance/index.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 22:34:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA05991 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 22:34:12 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA19155; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:43:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA07159 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:41:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.mc.net (mail.mc.net [209.172.128.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id UAA07150 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:41:14 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 15927 invoked from network); 8 Jan 1999 03:41:42 -0000 Received: from tntmodem3-35.mc.net (HELO HEATHERL) (209.172.135.35) by mail.mc.net with SMTP; 8 Jan 1999 03:41:42 -0000 Message-ID: <3695A23A.7A8A@mc.net> Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 22:14:18 -0800 From: Heather Law Organization: Interstellar Trading Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #10 References: <199901051559.IAA01472@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Rating: mail.mc.net 1.6.1 0/1000/N Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Heather Law Whoops -- I seem to have led some of you (including me!) on a (temporary, I hope) wylde goose chase. I can't get to the Coollist server either, and a couple of others on SCA garb list also haven't been. This looks like a problem with the server (I've tried directly from posts to the list) and I've posted to the list asking if anyone knows what the problem is or can find out. I'll post to this list as soon as I hear anything, promise! Heather Law/"Sister Ed" > - -Poster: Orlaith > > The years are 600 to 1600 AD, with tolerance for Cavalier ("3-Musketeers > Look). If you'll send me your email addy, I'll send you a list of my > favorite sites, plus several SCA web pages. Also, you would be up to > your ears in help, I think, if you joined the SCA-Garb list, at > > http://www.coollist.com > > Is anyone else having problems getting into this website? I have been trying > for more than a week and I keep getting connection refused. I really would > like to get the digest version of the SCA Garb list if it is available since > there does seem to be a Anti-SCA feeling on this list sometimes and I would > like to read both. > > Beth > Orlaith of Storvik > Orlaith@usa.net > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 22:38:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA06066 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 22:38:06 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA19600; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:47:28 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA07661 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:45:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA07656 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:45:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p35.directcon.net [206.170.184.84]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA13131 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 19:41:21 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 19:41:21 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901080341.TAA13131@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: foundation garments Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson > >No corset can entirely prevent 'hanky panky'. Shakespeare In Love shows >that pretty clearly. In my (somewhat limited) experience, most 'hanky >panky' occours above the waist... Really? Can you document that? Are there hanky panky guidelines somewhere? :-) At the risk of sharing a bit too much, once in my mispent youth I went to an event in my candy-pink, brain sucking Cavalier costume. There's something about that gown that makes me misbehave, and I ended up spending a large portion of the evening out in the underbrush with a young man who was quite chagrined to find that a well fitted corset of the period does not have *any* extra room....but that the full skirts of the period offer interesting possibilities. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 22:39:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA06073 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 22:39:15 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA19758; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:48:29 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA07773 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:46:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA07766 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:46:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip229.an7-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.18.229]) by hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA21147 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 19:46:15 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36957222.35F25835@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 22:49:08 -0400 From: Laurel Wilson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03C-NSCP (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Jerkin/doublet (was:Shakespeare In Love) References: <199901070050.QAA06422@zeus.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Laurel Wilson Margo Anderson wrote: > Since there appear to have > been people who called themselves jerkin makers, and tailors advertised > making doublets I think the reason for this, aside from guild regulations, is that doublets, at least in the fourteenth and fifteenth centuries, were always padded and quilted. However, I don't know if that continues to be true in Elizabethan times. Lauri _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 22:51:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA06290 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 22:51:08 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA21017; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 21:00:07 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA08975 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:57:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.mc.net (mail.mc.net [209.172.128.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id UAA08969 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:57:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 19970 invoked from network); 8 Jan 1999 03:58:19 -0000 Received: from tntmodem3-35.mc.net (HELO HEATHERL) (209.172.135.35) by mail.mc.net with SMTP; 8 Jan 1999 03:58:19 -0000 Message-ID: <3695A620.3720@mc.net> Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 22:30:56 -0800 From: Heather Law Organization: Interstellar Trading Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #11 References: <199901051820.LAA27098@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Rating: mail.mc.net 1.6.1 0/1000/N Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Heather Law *nyuk* Let's hear it for gutsy Fresh Meat (er, excuse me, Newcomers) in groups everywhere! I was in college way back when I first joined, and showed up at my first event in... Sweat pants, a sleeveles jerkin of the (un-)finest polyester-- I think I *did* try to make the thing lace up the front -- and a "coif" of army-green pinwale cordurouy (sp??). And tennies. I wouldn't have passed the *screaming distance* rule, let alone 10 feet! And I got less criticism on this mess than I did on my Edo-period, wide-shoulder-kami-shimo samurai garb I made later on. (Also, less compliments.) Now I'm in the 2nd piece of garb I ever made, a black hooded T-tunic with a veil that covers the hood. ("Old habits die hard...") I've gotten compliments on this, from the 1 1/2 feet behind my table, (fabric, anyone?) not I think because of "authenticity" but because of *convincingness*. However, one of these days, I am going to make me a *new* habit... Heather Law/"Sister Ed" > > Less than 2 years ago, I was a newcomer in the SCA. One of the first things > I was told was the 10 foot guideline. And thank god for the guideline. I spent > days sewing and embroidering and beading a tunic. No sleeve tunic. Darts and > a zipper. Poly twill. I just put it in the gold key box. *urp* It was really > nice > actually, just no way was it period. I wore it with a calf length silk velvet > circle > skirt and my biker boots. I'm cracking up typing this. My god, the tunic was > navy, the skirt plum. I wore a crocheted leather top over all this as fake chain > mail. *sigh* *laugh* Some nice lady was even kind enough to compliment > me on the skirt. The fabric *was* gorgeous. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 22:51:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA06294 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 22:51:12 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA21028; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 21:00:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA08990 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:57:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA08977 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:57:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip229.an7-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.18.229]) by hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA05511 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 19:57:53 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <369574DD.D4C8C99D@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 23:00:48 -0400 From: Laurel Wilson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03C-NSCP (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST:Cyrano References: <67ed7ad1.369524a0@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Laurel Wilson Both of you might wish to point out, for the benefit of those on the list who may not know this, that 'panache' in French has the double meaning of *both* the white plume and 'style', 'flair', etc. Lauri _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 23:00:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA06444 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 23:00:52 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA22004; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 21:10:14 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA09950 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 21:08:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.mc.net (mail.mc.net [209.172.128.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id VAA09937 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 21:08:04 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 22682 invoked from network); 8 Jan 1999 04:08:32 -0000 Received: from tntmodem3-35.mc.net (HELO HEATHERL) (209.172.135.35) by mail.mc.net with SMTP; 8 Jan 1999 04:08:32 -0000 Message-ID: <3695A885.19B2@mc.net> Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 22:41:09 -0800 From: Heather Law Organization: Interstellar Trading Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #11 References: <199901051820.LAA27098@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Rating: mail.mc.net 1.6.1 0/1000/N Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Heather Law Jennie, Have you looked into local sheltered workshops, job-training programs, and the like? You might have to provide some teaching/supervision, or maybe could work with a job-training program to get something set up. Sheltered workshops often do sewing, although it may have to be the easy stuff, than farm out the harder stuff to someone else. Even if you have to ship the stuff to a city in another state, it could solve the sweatshop, price, and a few people's jobless problems. I'd call the Chambers of Commerce for towns in your area, the county, and also your state capitol. If you can't find the right phone number, call your area's state rep or the Governor's office. They're usually well-staffed and helpful, and besides, you're paying their salaries -- and they know it! Good luck, Heather Law > From: Jennie Chancey > Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 12:31:58 -0500 > Subject: H-COST: Major Design Project -- Need sources! > > - -Poster: Jennie Chancey > > Back again after Christmas/New Year's vacation, and I've just been > handed a huge project that is quite exciting. > > A new catalogue (which must remain nameless for now) is starting up, > which will feature authentic, high quality historical/nostalgic toys for > boys. Kind of like the American Girls line with the dolls and matching > historical outfits, this new catalogue would like to offer five or six > complete outfits for boys that go along with a story from the past, like > Sergeant York, Davy Crockett, Squanto, etc. > > I have been asked to design the outfits, and I am very excited to do > so. However, because the company has never done anything in the > clothing area before, they do not know where to go to hire the labor to > have the outfits made. They do not want to use China or Mexico > (sweatshops), but they do need to be able to order 500-1000 outfits at a > pop and keep them in stock in three sizes (3-5 year old; 6-9 year old; > 10-12 year old). I know a lot of great seamstresses out there who make > boys' reenacting clothing, etc., but I am clueless when it comes to > outsourcing something this huge. > > Does anyone on the list know of a company or group that can make good > quality clothing (not Halloween costume "cheap-os," but not reenactment > quality goods, either)? I would appreciate any and all suggestions. > I'm going to get on the net and look around, but I seriously doubt I'll > find something without a referral. And I do need to be able to make > sure they do not use underpaid or "free" labor. > > Thanks much! > > Jennie Chancey > - -- > Sense and Sensibility > http://www.sensibility.com > winsome clothing with an old-fashioned appeal _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 23:06:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA06530 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 23:06:48 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA22532; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 21:16:14 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA10558 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 21:14:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.pacifier.com (root@smtp.pacifier.com [199.2.117.96]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA10550 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 21:14:04 -0700 (MST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: from grendal2 (ip37.van20.pacifier.com [216.65.138.37]) by smtp.pacifier.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id UAA15629 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:14:02 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901080414.UAA15629@smtp.pacifier.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:14:30 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays Priority: normal In-reply-to: <36950228.CA5F7EA@best.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > The closest I know anyone to have come to a 15" waist > is a slightly taller acquaintance who claims to be an ex-model and also > claims to have a 21" waist, which she tells everyone as soon as she > meets them and often thereafter. She looks pretty gaunt, so I'd say her > hobby is certainly dieting. As far as I know she does not wear corsets. When Catherine was doing the 15" thing, she was sorting out people for her court ladies in waiting. Some of those would have been teenage women. When I was in high school and college, I had a 19" waist when I pooched my stomach out. I was fairly thin, but I'm also 5'4". I was about 105# at the time. I had to buy a size 6 pattern (when they could be found in the pattern books) and decrease it from 23" (which was the measurements for that size) down so that they didn't bag in the waist. Still have my fitting sloper from then. Boy, is it a hoot. My hips and shoulders were large compared to my waist (and still are.) (I don't want to be that small ever again. I like my 25" waist and the breasts I never had when I was 16 and could have used them for self esteem reasons!) I think I probably could have gotten down to a 15" pretty easily with a restricting corset (not that I would have wanted to, however.) I see a lot of teenage girls (sports physicals, well visits and the like.) Some of them have pretty small waists. My hands can span them (and I'm not talking about anorexics either.) They might be able to have a 15" over corseted waist. While I doubt any of the adults or anyone who's had a baby would get a 15" waist, I can't say it never happened either. I just think that in this day and age it's unlikely. Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 8 05:36:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA19124 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 05:35:59 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id DAA13023; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 03:45:29 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id DAA24378 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 03:43:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from morgoth.tuug.org (root@morgoth.tuug.org [130.232.72.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id DAA24220 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 03:43:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from delenn.yok.utu.fi ([130.232.128.27] HELO delenn.yok.utu.fi ident: NO-IDENT-SERVICE [port 21508]) by tuug.org with SMTP id <40815-271>; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 12:42:50 +0200 From: "Ella Lynoure Rajamaki" Organization: Lyninine Federation To: Leslie Helms , h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 12:43:13 +2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: SCA garb list Priority: normal In-reply-to: <199901072022.MAA32642@falcon.canfield.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Message-Id: <19990108104250Z40815-271+75@tuug.org> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Ella Lynoure Rajamaki" On 7 Jan 99, at 12:06, Leslie Helms wrote: > The SCA garb list is alive and well. Several of us are on both lists, and > the SCA list does provide a little more leeway for discussing > society-specific topics. When I'm suggesting a list to a new enthusiast, I > usually recommend joining sca-garb first until they get their bearings. > > I don't know why http://www.coollist.com wouldn't be working. Keep trying. If you can send the list address here, perhaps we can still subscribe even though the web site doesn't work. Sometimes -subscribe@ lets one subscribe (at least it works with ONElist lists). -- -------(c) 1999--------------* lynoure@tuug.org * Ella Lynoure Rajamaki--------* http://www.tuug.org/~lynoure * _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 8 07:04:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA20437 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 07:04:10 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id FAA16539; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 05:13:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id FAA03984 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 05:11:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id FAA03969 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 05:11:27 -0700 (MST) From: Gaelscot@aol.com Received: from Gaelscot@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 8JTAa04798 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 07:10:34 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3e36bf82.3695f5ba@aol.com> Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 07:10:34 EST To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: H-COST: national portrait gallery again Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.7 for Mac sub 3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com Karen is right, the colors in the paintings are spectacular. Most people don't realize that printing is simply not able to reproduce art. Oh, specialized printers can do a good job -- but a fine art reproduction, for instance, might have several special color inks (to reproduce particular shades) and varnishes (to reproduce painting effects). It still won't look exactly like the original, and a normal four-color process reproduction, such as those found in books and postcards, won't come close. Likewise, lithography can't produce the extremely sharp lines found in most artwork. Can you tell that my husband is a printer? I was lucky enough to be able to get to the Vermeer exhibit in Washington. I have loved his paintings (well, the good ones) for years and seen many reproductions. I was not prepared for the amazing colors and crispness of the real thing. Wait until you see the famous portrait by -- Holbein? -- of the two ambassadors. The green background will knock your socks off. As will the size -- that thing is gigantic! Gail Finke _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 8 07:04:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA20436 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 07:04:10 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id FAA16536; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 05:13:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id FAA03986 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 05:11:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id FAA03971 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 05:11:27 -0700 (MST) From: Gaelscot@aol.com Received: from Gaelscot@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id NEGZa03543 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 07:10:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <40ead401.3695f5c9@aol.com> Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 07:10:49 EST To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: H-COST: women/pants/work Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.7 for Mac sub 3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com Re: our recent discussions about what in what careers women can currently wear trousers to the office -- I noticed at least one woman Senator in trousers (a suit) at today's impeachment opening ceremony. Gail Finke _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 8 09:01:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA22284 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 09:01:56 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA22895; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 07:11:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA11875 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 07:09:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com (imo14.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA11868 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 07:09:11 -0700 (MST) From: Mazelle@aol.com Received: from Mazelle@aol.com by imo14.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id TBIAa05514 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 09:08:31 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3e361ce2.3696115f@aol.com> Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 09:08:31 EST To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: H-COST: Re: Sirs Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Mazelle@aol.com Karla, Yes, the prices at Sirs are very good. If I remember correctly they do not take credit cards, however. So you might want to call and double check that before going there. Alysia _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 8 09:07:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA22365 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 09:07:45 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA23248; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 07:17:34 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA12317 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 07:15:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from websmtp1.bellsouth.bigfoot.com (websmtp1.bellsouth.bigfoot.com [208.156.60.91]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA12300 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 07:14:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from bigfoot (www1.bellsouth.bigfoot.com [208.156.60.161]) by websmtp1.bellsouth.bigfoot.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA14339; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 09:04:48 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199901081404.JAA14339@websmtp1.bellsouth.bigfoot.com> To: "Guinevere Gurtler" , h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: F-COST: Maid's Uniform help From: "Maid For Her" Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 09:15:51 -0500 X-Originating-IP: 204.0.197.163 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Maid For Her" At Fri, 08 Jan 1999 07:00:02 MST, you wrote: > >-Poster: "Guinevere Gurtler" > > > [snip] >> >>Can anyone help? Any suggestions will be appreciated. >> >>Maid For Her > >Sorry to be nosey but, what in the world did you do to deserve such a >penitence? Must have been one ____ of a bet! > It was!!!!! A little background... I had a BS in Geology from LSU and lived in College Station, TX and Tallahasee, FL. So the three teams closest to my haert are the Tigers, the Aggies and the Noles. The one team I won't cheer for is Tulane. My wife has a degree from Tulane, which leads to quite a bit of strife during football season as well as some creative bets. So I lost the bet on 3 bowl games and Tulane's standing in the final AP poll. With that strong rivally, her "punishment" was merciless. But who knows, this might be a little fun. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 8 09:10:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA22437 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 09:10:57 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA23499; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 07:20:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA12651 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 07:18:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.tds.net (mail.tds.net [204.246.1.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA12636 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 07:18:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from nash.tds.net (latnusr0-a40.nash.tds.net [207.0.84.168]) by mail.tds.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA19965 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 08:18:02 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36961397.4CCAF7E6@nash.tds.net> Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 08:17:59 -0600 From: Kent & Kat Organization: Oak, Ash, and Thorn X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Sirs References: <3e361ce2.3696115f@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kent & Kat Mazelle@aol.com wrote: > Karla, > Yes, the prices at Sirs are very good. If I remember correctly > they do not take credit cards, however. So you might want to > call and double check that before going there. They do take out-of-town checks...don't know about out-of-state but I would assume with proper id they'd take that too. Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 8 09:18:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA22524 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 09:18:50 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA23939; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 07:27:21 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA13266 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 07:24:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from websmtp1.bellsouth.bigfoot.com (websmtp1.bellsouth.bigfoot.com [208.156.60.91]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA13253 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 07:24:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from bigfoot (www1.bellsouth.bigfoot.com [208.156.60.161]) by websmtp1.bellsouth.bigfoot.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA14576 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 09:14:36 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199901081414.JAA14576@websmtp1.bellsouth.bigfoot.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Apologies to the list From: "Maid For Her" Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 09:25:39 -0500 X-Originating-IP: 204.0.197.163 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Maid For Her" Please accept my apologies. I typed h-costume by accident instead of f-costume. I'm typing a little to fast today.... Sorry. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 8 09:49:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA22979 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 09:49:08 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA27027; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 07:58:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA17092 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 07:56:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from april.dnaco.net (root@april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA17081 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 07:55:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA24192; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 09:50:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.8.4/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA28986; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 09:57:07 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 09:56:59 -0500 (EST) From: aleed To: Historic Costume cc: Historic Needlework Subject: Re: H-COST: Sneed pattern In-Reply-To: <19990108000542.2655.rocketmail@send103.yahoomail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: aleed I have a page up on 16th c. hairnets/cauls that has a link to a crochet snood pattern at http://www.dnaco.net/~aleed/corsets/headwear/snood.html Enjoy, Drea On Thu, 7 Jan 1999, Kristen M. Sieber wrote: > > -Poster: "Kristen M. Sieber" > > Does anybody have, or know where I can get, a crochet snood pattern? > > Kristen M. Sieber > lady_gawain@yahoo.com > _________________________________________________________ > DO YOU YAHOO!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 8 10:29:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA23592 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 10:29:33 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA01534; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 08:38:53 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA23366 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 08:36:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from host1.texramp.net (root@host1.texramp.net [209.144.20.3]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA23306; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 08:35:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from LocalHost (hydroseal.com [209.144.20.50]) by host1.texramp.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA28064; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 09:35:54 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199901081535.JAA28064@host1.texramp.net> From: "Sterling Ranne" To: , Subject: H-COST: WTD: Kilt jacket pattern. Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 09:35:53 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Sterling Ranne" I'm looking for a pattern for a Sheriffmuir kilt jacket. Also looking for a pattern for the jabot shirt that is worn with it. I can find the Prince Charlie jacket but much prefer the looks of the Sheriffmuir. Any help finding patterns greatly appreciated. Sterling 92.5% Pure sranne@hydroseal.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 8 11:12:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA24352 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 11:12:27 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA07179; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 09:22:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA01120 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 09:19:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from host1.texramp.net (root@host1.texramp.net [209.144.20.3]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA01107 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 09:19:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from LocalHost (hydroseal.com [209.144.20.50]) by host1.texramp.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA01287 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 10:19:29 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199901081619.KAA01287@host1.texramp.net> From: "Sterling Ranne" To: Subject: H-COST: WTD: Kilt jacket pattern. Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 10:20:16 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Sterling Ranne" I'm looking for a pattern for a Sheriffmuir kilt jacket. Also looking for a pattern for the jabot shirt that is worn with it. I can find the Prince Charlie jacket but much prefer the looks of the Sheriffmuir. Any help finding patterns greatly appreciated. Sterling 92.5% Pure sranne@hydroseal.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 8 11:19:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA24436 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 11:19:49 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA08107; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 09:29:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA02544 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 09:27:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.66]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA02529 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 09:27:06 -0700 (MST) From: Chindora@aol.com Received: from Chindora@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id PLCMa01440 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 11:26:10 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <95aa8a9f.369631a2@aol.com> Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 11:26:10 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: 15" waists - any surviving garments? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 62 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Chindora@aol.com I have a 15 year old daughter that I just made an Elizabethan corset for, and her un-corseted bust and waist measurements are 34" and 21", respectively, and no, she definately does NOT have any kind of eating disorder...... I don't think I was ever that tiny after about the age of 8, so she must be a throwback to an earlier generation of willowy women..... Jane _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 8 12:00:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA25117 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 12:00:56 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA13376; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 10:09:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA12270 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 10:06:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from bigpapa.nothinbut.net (root@bigpapa.nothinbut.net [207.44.32.11]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA12233 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 10:06:49 -0700 (MST) From: pame@nothinbut.net Received: from bigpapa.nothinbut.net (mtl-ct1-03.nothinbut.net [207.44.46.13]) by bigpapa.nothinbut.net (8.8.8/8.8.8/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id MAA14249 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 12:06:50 -0500 Message-Id: <199901081706.MAA14249@bigpapa.nothinbut.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 12:04:32 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: H-COST: Re: Candle wax Priority: normal In-reply-to: <000201be38f0$c4b5ae20$5d14ffd0@default> References: <19990104215618.25469.qmail@www0r.netaddress.usa.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: pame@nothinbut.net > -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" > > > Heat up the tea kettle, stretch the waxy part of the > tablecloth over the sink or a bowl, and pour boiling water > through it until the wax is gone, then launder normally. > Works fast, with one teakettle full at most. If there's a > stain in the same area, scrub that out first with > dishwashing liquid soap, so that the boiling water doesn't > set the stain. > I have two quick questions-How would you recommend removing wax from a velvet mantle cover? It is backed with acetate and heavily beaded. Second-does anyone know of a place to order or buy thimbles by size. I need a size 8 for my mother-in-law. Thank you list for your help. p. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 8 12:01:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA25129 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 12:01:22 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA13481; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 10:10:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA12298 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 10:07:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from bigpapa.nothinbut.net (root@bigpapa.nothinbut.net [207.44.32.11]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA12254 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 10:06:52 -0700 (MST) From: pame@nothinbut.net Received: from bigpapa.nothinbut.net (mtl-ct1-03.nothinbut.net [207.44.46.13]) by bigpapa.nothinbut.net (8.8.8/8.8.8/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id MAA14261 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 12:06:53 -0500 Message-Id: <199901081706.MAA14261@bigpapa.nothinbut.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 12:04:32 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays Priority: normal In-reply-to: <4.1.19990107153012.009198e0@mail.tmsonline.com> References: <36950228.CA5F7EA@best.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: pame@nothinbut.net > -Poster: Lisa Scovel > > I really think it depends on how you're built. Our Maggie is 15 years old. She is 6 ft. tall. She also weighs about 119 on a good day. She is not anorexic-she eats like mad but she just came like that (built like her dad, certainly not moi!) She can easily corset down to 15 or 16 inches. When we were walking through the Nicholas and Alexandria exhibit her favorite game was "Mom, could I wear that?" The waists on these actual garments were tiny and though they would have been too short for her she loved thinking that she could squiggle into the tiny waists. I would guess that there were large variations in size as today with the tiny waist being the goal. p. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 8 12:01:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA25133 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 12:01:33 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA13471; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 10:10:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA12279 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 10:07:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from bigpapa.nothinbut.net (root@bigpapa.nothinbut.net [207.44.32.11]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA12229 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 10:06:48 -0700 (MST) From: pame@nothinbut.net Received: from bigpapa.nothinbut.net (mtl-ct1-03.nothinbut.net [207.44.46.13]) by bigpapa.nothinbut.net (8.8.8/8.8.8/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id MAA14245 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 12:06:48 -0500 Message-Id: <199901081706.MAA14245@bigpapa.nothinbut.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 12:04:32 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: Stays, skeletons and girdles Priority: normal In-reply-to: <19990107124115.7134.rocketmail@send204.yahoomail.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: pame@nothinbut.net > -Poster: Dora Barnes > > <<< It was not just a fifties thing...The army was still requiring women enlistees to arrive with a full length slip, a firm control long line girdle and two cotton white bras in 1974. They did not, at that time supply underpinnings and you couldn't ship out without your supply list filled. It was so bizarre in the age of free spirits and the braless look. By the by, S&E has an underwear (history of) coming up in January. It should be really interesting so check the listing to check it out. P. > > > _________________________________________________________ > DO YOU YAHOO!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 8 12:01:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA25135 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 12:01:34 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA13477; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 10:10:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA12280 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 10:07:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from bigpapa.nothinbut.net (root@bigpapa.nothinbut.net [207.44.32.11]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA12244 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 10:06:50 -0700 (MST) From: pame@nothinbut.net Received: from bigpapa.nothinbut.net (mtl-ct1-03.nothinbut.net [207.44.46.13]) by bigpapa.nothinbut.net (8.8.8/8.8.8/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id MAA14253 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 12:06:51 -0500 Message-Id: <199901081706.MAA14253@bigpapa.nothinbut.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 12:04:32 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: 10' Rule Priority: normal In-reply-to: <4.1.19990105102631.0095e1e0@mail.tmsonline.com> References: <36925569.9640E596@serv.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: pame@nothinbut.net > It's important to be sympathetic towards the unenlightened costumer because we > have all done silly things when we started. Which is more important, that all sorts of people are involved and > enjoying themsleves, or that we have a perfect bunch of historical fashion > models constantly attempting to outdo one another? > I would like to point out as well, that when my husband and I started in the SCA a billion years ago, the fighters were all wearing freon cans on their and wearing armour made of carpet remnants! Historical costuming has come a long way in 25 years whether at ren faires or SCA or even in local theatre groups. We can't now turn snobs and figure we have come as far as we can. It is a hobby for all that it is an expensive one. Remember, guys, even history is suposed to be fun. p. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 8 12:29:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA25563 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 12:29:10 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA16683; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 10:39:14 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA17625 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 10:36:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from inet16.us.oracle.com (inet16.us.oracle.com [192.86.155.100]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA17590 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 10:36:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from usmail05 (usmail05.us.oracle.com [144.25.88.200]) by inet16.us.oracle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA07969 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 09:35:04 -0800 (PST) Received: by usmail05 (SMI-8.6/37.9) id JAA08846; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 09:19:03 -0800 Message-Id: <199901081719.JAA08846@usmail05> Date: 08 Jan 99 09:18:21 -0800 From: "SNORTON.US.ORACLE.COM" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: looking for seamstress. X-Orcl-Application: In-Reply-To:OASUN1.US.ORACLE.COM:owner-h-costume@indra.com's message of 07-Jan-99 04:04 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Oracle InterOffice (version 4.1.2.12.0) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_ORCL_46269309_0_0" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "SNORTON.US.ORACLE.COM" --=_ORCL_46269309_0_0 Content-Transfer-Encoding:7bit Content-Type:text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Sara, I don't know where you are -- or if you would be comfortable working with someone long distance -- but I can strongly recommend Kathleen Anne Crowley in San Francisco. She is very nice, extremely talented and has fair prices. She's not yet on email but here's how to reach her: Kathleen Anne Crowley 861 Fell St., Apt. A San Francisco, CA 94117 415.864.5616 Good luck, Sally Norton snorton@us.oracle.com --=_ORCL_46269309_0_0 Content-Type:message/rfc822 Date: 07 Jan 99 13:08:35 From:"Sara J. Davitt" To:h-costume@indra.com Subject:H-COST: looking for seamstress. Reply-to:OASUN1.US.ORACLE.COM:h-costume@indra.com Return-Path: Received:from mailsun3 by usmail05 with SMTP (SMI-8.6/37.9) id UAA18555; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:07:20 -0800 Received:from inet16.us.oracle.com by mailsun3 with ESMTP (SMI-8.6/37.9) id NAA16067; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:01:24 -0800 Received:from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by inet16.us.oracle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAB20933 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:00:07 -0800 (PST) Received:from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA07458; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:03:10 -0700 (MST) Received:(from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA04862 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:00:40 -0700 (MST) Received:from dias.net (dias.net [199.170.176.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA04828 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:00:32 -0700 (MST) Received:from localhost (ophelia@localhost) by dias.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA09700 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:08:36 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from ophelia@dias.net) In-Reply-To:<36940873.5FC37855@pacbell.net> Message-ID: Sender:owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type:TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding:7bit -Poster: "Sara J. Davitt" OK, I have a bishops cassock that I would like to have adapted into a jacket. Anyone up to the task?... I would supply the fabric, and the cassock, and how much would this cost? Thanks! (Please relpy Off-List) Sarahj _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME --=_ORCL_46269309_0_0-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 8 12:37:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA25710 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 12:37:57 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA14358; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 10:15:40 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA09016 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 09:50:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA09001 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 09:50:23 -0700 (MST) From: Marionetta@aol.com Received: from Marionetta@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id BAAVa03539 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 11:49:43 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <90858caa.36963727@aol.com> Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 11:49:43 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST:Hepburn's Embassy Ball Dress Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 230 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Marionetta@aol.com For whomever it was who was looking for pics of Audrey Hepburn in the Embassy Ball dress in My Fair Lady, there are two pics of this dress in the book "Cecil Beaton stage and film designs" isbn 1 85490 398 5 On pages 119, a 3/4 shot of her sitting in the dress, and p 120 a full length frontal view. BTW for anyone interested in the costumes from the Ascot scene (as I am) there are some great photos and sketches of the extras costumes from that scene in this book as well. Cheers, Loren Dearborn marionetta@aol.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 8 12:39:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA25720 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 12:39:05 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA17588; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 10:48:40 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA19236 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 10:45:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.85]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA19229 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 10:45:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip101.an3-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.14.101]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA13573 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 09:45:55 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <369636EF.D20CEF8B@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 12:48:47 -0400 From: Laurel Wilson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03C-NSCP (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Apologies to the list References: <199901081414.JAA14576@websmtp1.bellsouth.bigfoot.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Laurel Wilson Too bad--I was getting really curious! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 8 12:54:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA25959 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 12:54:35 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA19780; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 11:04:25 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA22370 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 11:01:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.85]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA22360 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 11:01:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from 38.29.61.77 (ip77.phoenix8.az.pub-ip.psi.net [38.29.61.77]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA01236 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 10:01:38 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3695E6AC.58A4@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 11:06:20 +0000 From: "S.B. McDaniel" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0-C-AICK1-2 (Macintosh; U; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: Mid-20th C. Foundation Garments References: <199901071654.JAA20373@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "S.B. McDaniel" Dora wrote: > . "Nice firm girdles" were > essential, not only for the visual shape, but for support, posture >> and the indefinable - "it was good for you". I'm showing my age, too. When I started parochial high school in 1967, my mother insisted that a "proper" girdle was necessary as I was wearing stockings (None of us would be caught dead in the uniform alternative: bobby socks!!). While pantyhose had been around for a few years, they were essentially unwearable. (Anyone else remember the revolutionary introduction of "Little Prune" stretch panythose?) I finally was able to find a garter belt (They weren't easily available here in AZ in 1967.) which solved the problem. Sandy _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 8 12:58:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA26035 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 12:58:07 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA20138; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 11:08:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA22960 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 11:05:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from proxy4.ba.best.com (root@proxy4.ba.best.com [206.184.139.15]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA22947 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 11:05:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from best.com (lavolta.vip.best.com [206.86.95.234]) by proxy4.ba.best.com (8.9.1/8.9.0/best.out) with ESMTP id KAA04943 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 10:03:28 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36964661.144BE81C@best.com> Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 09:54:42 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 15" waists - any surviving garments? References: <95aa8a9f.369631a2@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lavolta Press Chindora@aol.com wrote: > -Poster: Chindora@aol.com > > I have a 15 year old daughter that I just made an Elizabethan corset for, and > her un-corseted bust and waist measurements are 34" and 21", respectively, and > no, she definately does NOT have any kind of eating disorder...... > Well, I wouldn't say age 15 is adult . . . Fran ---------------------------------------------- Visit our web sites! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.best.com/~lavolta/index.htm Vintage and historic dance http://www.best.com/~lavolta/dance/index.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 8 13:17:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA26166 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 13:17:41 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA22616; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 11:27:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA26350 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 11:24:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from m23.boston.juno.com (m23.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.188]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA26267 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 11:24:20 -0700 (MST) From: seamstrix@juno.com Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m23.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id DYF8XCLV; Fri, 08 Jan 1999 13:24:15 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 23:00:03 -0600 Subject: Re: H-COST: foundation garments Message-ID: <19990108.121224.25342.22.seamstrix@juno.com> References: <199901080341.TAA13131@zeus.directcon.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3-6 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: seamstrix@juno.com In a bit of synchronicity, apparently the cable channel A&E will be having a program on underclothing in the next few days. I think it's either Saturday or Sunday and I remember seeing shots of period corsets and hoop constructions in the preview. Karen _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 8 13:53:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA26313 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 13:53:24 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA26779; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 12:03:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA02722 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 12:00:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.31]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA02691 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 12:00:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.23.158 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 11:00:03 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Resource Books Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 14:01:29 -0500 Message-ID: <000101be3b39$b0352480$9e17ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Francois Boucher's 20,000 Years of Fashion, $35 from www.Amazon.com Alternatively, I heard great things about Naomi Tarrant's survey book. Se's at the National Museum of Scotland. Kohler's History of Costume, very inexpensive in paper. Janet Arnold: Patterns of Fashion, Volumes I, II, and III, or Norah Waugh's The Cut of Women's Clothes, expensive, but essential. Norah Waugh: Corsets and Crinolines, essential, and inexpensive Norah Waugh: The Cut of Men's Clothes I think all of these are in print now. I get my books mostly from interlibrary loan or used at a considerable discount at http://www.bookfinder.com (formerly http://www.mxbf.com), which is a multi search engine of about 20 used book sellers. The following are out of print too, except for Beck and Bradfield, but I love them: Phillips & Tomkinson's English Women in Life and Letters, Oxford University Press 1926 Dion Clayton Calthrop's English Costume, 1906 in four volumes Alice Morse Earle's Dress in America, an older book in 2 volumes. Jaqueline Herald's Italian Renaissance Dress in Italy 1400-1500 Nancy Bradfield's Costume in Detail, for 1725 to about 1935 English women's clothing Thomasina Beck's The Embroiderer's Story, spans 1650 to 1950 You can get an lot off the Web these days. The best source of non-western garb is Max Tilke's 1922 volume of watercolors based on garments in the Berlin Ethnographic Museum, and it's very hard to find and expensive. However, its on the Web in its entirety at: http://www.indiana.edu/librcsd/etext/tilke. It includes North Africa, the Balkans, The Mid-East, SW Russia, and almost all of Asia, except the Arctic. Here are URL's for the often-requested Greenland Dress(es): http://www.virtualelpaso.com/neverwinter/dress/dress.htm http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/5923/cloth/herjbac k.html The best sources I know for cutting systems and tailoring books are online at R.L. Shep / Fred Struthers: http://www.mcn.org/e/fsbks/HTML/booklist.htm and Lavolta Press: http://www.best.com/~lavolta/index.htm These Webpages link to a huge variety of things, in addition to having strong content of their own: http://members.aol.com/nebula5/costume.html Best all-round costume reference site by Julie Zetterberg, who must be a librarian at heart. There’s an incredible “how to” section, everything from children’s Halloween to ethnic, to movies, to historical, to ice skating, to fantasy, to dance, to art history image sources, to ……frequently updated and expanded. http://www.costumes.org More theatrically oriented site, done by incredibly creative and enthusiastic Tara McGuinness, who heads the costume shop for the student theatre for the University of Alaska at Fairbanks. http://www.costumegallery.com by Penny Dunlap Ladnier is another good one. My favorite parts are the “library” and Yoshiwara’s “La Couturiere Parisienne de la Marquise de Pompadour” which has great images and patterns for historical dresses of the last 3-4 centuries. Got to stop. There is a slew of web-based sourses for paintings, woodcuts, and engravings which I find very helpful, too. Direct your questions to http://www.metacrawler.com, which is a consortium of about 8 search engines and thus the most comprehensive search engine I know. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Vickers, Jill Sent: Thursday, January 07, 1999 9:49 PM To: 'h-costume' Subject: H-COST: Resource Books -Poster: "Vickers, Jill" I'm interested in starting a historic costume reference library, but as a costuming newbie (although long-time sewer), I'm not sure what to start with. Could someone please tell me what the top five or so books are that are considered "must haves" (and hopefully currently in print!) for those just starting out? I am most interested in the general references that span several periods, as well as books specifically on the Elizabethan and Early Victorian periods. Thanks, -Jill ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 8 14:19:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA26403 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 14:19:06 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA29637; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 12:28:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA06954 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 12:25:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA06939 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 12:25:53 -0700 (MST) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id MOYPa18628 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 14:25:09 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <11b19d20.36965b95@aol.com> Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 14:25:09 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST:Cyrano-OT Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 226 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com In a message dated 1/7/1999 19:58:24 Pacific Standard Time, lwilson16@earthlink.net writes: << Both of you might wish to point out, for the benefit of those on the list who may not know this, that 'panache' in French has the double meaning of *both* the white plume and 'style', 'flair', etc. Lauri >> Lauri, we took it off list, and Margo and I figured out the problem. If we had been discussing Cyrano, or the quote, or whatever, her comments were appropriate. However, it's just my *sig* file and I was really annoyed that it was apparently being "critiqued" since that isn't a statement to anyone, but rather a small statement *about* myself. She had misread the quote and thought it was part of my post, and in that context, was simply commenting on the translation, which is no big deal. All is well, no guns are blazing. However, French literature is kinda OT for the list, so I don't think we'll be getting into it much. angil + + + + + + + Angela F. Lazear Costumes & Custom Clothing "Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition From Mediocre Minds" A. Einstein _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 8 17:31:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA27166 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 17:31:05 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA19483; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 15:12:35 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA03868 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 15:03:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from bigred.unl.edu (00217146@bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA03859 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 15:03:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (00217146@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA13939 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 16:03:36 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 16:03:36 -0600 (CST) From: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> Sorry, Long Island Staylace Association. www.staylace.com Be aware that while this site does have some neat images and resources for the historical costumer, it also has quite a bit fetish stuff, too. I took a look yesterday and couldn't find the quote on Vampyra's waist measurement. I must have seen it elsewhere. > -Poster: Sylvia Rognstad > > What's the L.I.S.A. page? > > On Thu, 7 Jan 1999, Emma Elizabeth Lehman wrote: > > > > > -Poster: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> > > > > > > > >Re 15" waists, anyone know how small Vampira's waist was in her corset? > > > >It looked like about 15" to me. For that matter, anyone old enough > > > >besides me to remember Vampira? > > > > > > I remember a Vampira comic book character, but I assume you're talking about > > > a live person? > > > > I remember Vampira, she was in Ed Wood's classic bomb "Plan 9 From Outer > > Space". I remember (vaguely) seeing somewhere what her waist measurement > > was, but I don't recall what it was or where I saw it. I'd check the > > L.I.S.A. page.... > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > > > > Divinity Designs http://www.d-e-designs.com/divinity/ > 515 Manhattan Drive, #203 sylvia@netherworld.com > Boulder, CO 80303 USA complete catalog on website > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 8 17:54:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA27239 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 17:54:04 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA25185; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 16:03:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA13276 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 16:00:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA13245 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 16:00:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from test (ip203-84.cc.interlog.com [207.34.203.84]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA27686 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 18:00:12 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990107221522.0092c100@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 22:15:22 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays In-Reply-To: <3694C347.F46BBBE5@nash.tds.net> References: <36925029.D4CBB17B@best.com> <4.1.19990106232920.00b96100@pop.slip.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >When you get a chance to actually look at clothing from earlier >periods it's amazing how much smaller they are... That reminded me, when I was young (I think I was just under 10 yrs) I got to try on my great-aunt's wedding dress. It was too small for me as *skinny* 10 year old. Her shoes were about a size 3 I think. The dress was beautiful white silk & lace 1920's "flapper" dress and is now in a small museum. If she was still alive the size difference would be extremely marked; I'm a rubenesque 5'10". :) Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 8 19:56:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA27764 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 19:56:12 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA07920; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 18:05:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA00552 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 18:02:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA00546 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 18:02:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.185] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 0zymnV-0001Gz-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 17:02:38 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990108073629.00b94720@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19990108073629.00b94720@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 07:49:24 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: 15" waists - any surviving garments? In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.19990107165438.00b8c5e0@pop.slip.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >About three years ago when I was somewhat thinner I had a 24-inch waist >at my skinny times of the month. I think it wouldn't be too unrealistic >for me to have corsetted myself down to 22", though I've never worn >Victorian style corsets so I couldn't say. I am short admittedly, >but not especially fine boned (I meet plenty of women more petite than >me), and very curvy. I believe you. In 1972 I could (and did) corset down to 26", and I am far from petite. What I don't believe is corseting down to 15". and >I was under the impression that the contemporary references to things like >15" waists were actually referring to the *corset* size, which was >measured in inches, and that a gap of as much as six inches could be left >between the edges when the corset was worn. It would thus make sense for >women to refer to their size as a "15-inch waist" the same way we talk >about being a "size 12" or a "33 inseam" or whatever. Today, unfamiliar >with this specialized use of "inch," we hear or read a quote saying >"15-inch waist" and we automatically think of actual inch measurements >around the waist. This is my impression as well. Brag about the corset size, then don't lace it all the way shut. and >Not that belonged to adults. and >Also, people do wishfully exaggerate their measurements. I think this is what we are seeing when we read acounts of teensy waists in the 15" range. This includes paintings done to suit clients and photos retouched for the same reason. Certainly people were smaller then, but not that much smaller. This is why I wanted to find an actual antique adult garment in that size. It would tend to prove that at least one person really was that small. (And we could get the rest of her proportions at the same time.) I'm still waiting, still unconvinced. When I studied >clothing design I remember people teaming up to take each others' measurements >for slopers. The instructor told everyone they had to take accurate >measurements and if the sloper didn't fit right the person (the wearer) who made >it would have to fix it. Just the same there were a lot of people saying things >like, "That's not my real waist size, I just ate a big dinner last night. Write >it down as thus-and-so." > >And the art of retouching photos is as old as photography, not to mention >painting flattering portraits. > >The topic "Were people really smaller 'then'?" and in particular, "Did they >really have super-small waists 'then'?" seems to be a perennial on h-costume. >I'm not criticising anyone, but I do wonder why. Because it seems many people >_want_ to believe in the tiny-waist myths, despite the fact that, as far as I >know, no one has come up with much real evidence. Most people on this list at >least know what corseting, and possibly modern diet-and-exercise programs, can >do for them personally. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 8 20:05:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA27800 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 20:05:48 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA09064; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 18:15:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA01723 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 18:12:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from wolfenet.com (ratty.wolfe.net [204.157.98.9]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA01683 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 18:12:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from wolfenet.com (cust-132-11.as01.ptld.eli.net [209.210.132.11]) by wolfenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA12705 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 17:12:53 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3696AD21.FE84D15A@wolfenet.com> Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 17:13:05 -0800 From: "Erin K. Gault" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Undergarment TV special Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Erin K. Gault" I went to the A&E website and found a description of this show. It shows on January 17 9pm/1am ET (6pm/10pm PT). Here's the link: http://www.aande.com/viewers/premieres/unmentionables.html Erin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 8 20:58:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA27972 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 20:58:06 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA13259; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 19:07:58 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA06664 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 19:05:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from proxy4.ba.best.com (root@proxy4.ba.best.com [206.184.139.15]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA06657 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 19:05:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from best.com (lavolta.vip.best.com [206.86.95.234]) by proxy4.ba.best.com (8.9.1/8.9.0/best.out) with ESMTP id SAA27904 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 18:03:57 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3696B6FD.64B02B39@best.com> Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 17:55:10 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 15" waists - any surviving garments? References: <4.1.19990107165438.00b8c5e0@pop.slip.net> <4.1.19990108073629.00b94720@pop.slip.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lavolta Press > I think this is what we are seeing when we read acounts of teensy waists in > the 15" range. This includes paintings done to suit clients and photos > retouched for the same reason. Certainly people were smaller then, but not > that much smaller. This is why I wanted to find an actual antique adult > garment in that size. It would tend to prove that at least one person > really was that small. (And we could get the rest of her proportions at > the same time.) I'm still waiting, still unconvinced. One thing I didn't make clear is: The rest of a person's measurements don't change with height as much as you might think. As I said, I'm 4'9". I can't say how my body would have developed with different nutrition, or childhood corseting that might have altered my bones or internal organs. But, I'm a pretty standard modern size except for height. I got bored making modern clothes, and I don't need to because I can buy perfectly good ones at department stores. The historic patterns I make now aren't as standardized as modern Vogue, etc, and I change the styles; so the amount of alteration I do on those doesn't indicate much. But when I used Vogue and so forth, all I had to do was buy a standard size, reduce the waist and sleeve lengths an inch each, reduce the waist-to-hip measurement another 1 1/2 to 2 inches, and take some more off the skirt below the hips, the amount depending on the skirt style. And I had a well-fitting pattern. What I'm trying to say is, being shorter doesn't give you a whole different body. And yes, when I was 15 I was smaller than now--everywhere. I didn't have a fully adult figure yet. As for corseting from 22" to 15"--my theory is the thinner you are the fewer inches you can squeeze off without discomfort, because the corset is not just displacing fat but pushing on the ribcage (and possibly the hip bones depending on the style). If anyone wants to try it, let me know if it can be endured for an entire day, not just a few minutes of experimentation. I don't tight-lace, have no wish to, and would have to make a new corset to experiment with. Fran ---------------------------------------------- Visit our web sites! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.best.com/~lavolta/index.htm Vintage and historic dance http://www.best.com/~lavolta/dance/index.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 8 21:54:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA28169 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 21:54:14 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA17823; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 20:04:11 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA11885 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 20:01:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from falcon.canfield.com (root@falcon.canfield.com [206.191.139.20]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA11858 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 20:01:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from Leslie (u6-48.wa.net [206.191.135.112]) by falcon.canfield.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA03097; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 19:09:55 -0800 Message-Id: <199901090309.TAA03097@falcon.canfield.com> X-Sender: leslieh@mail.canfield.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 18:58:40 -0800 To: lynoure@tuug.org, h-costume@indra.com From: Leslie Helms Subject: Re: H-COST: SCA garb list In-Reply-To: <19990108104250Z40815-271+75@tuug.org> References: <199901072022.MAA32642@falcon.canfield.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Leslie Helms It appears that although the sca-garb list is still operating, the control functions are down and subscriptions can't be processed. Weird! They're trying to regroup. Leslie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 8 22:14:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA28240 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 22:14:54 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA19410; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 20:24:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA13498 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 20:22:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from titanium.sge.net (titanium.sge.net [152.91.9.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA13487 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 20:22:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by titanium.sge.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA21875 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 14:21:33 +1100 (EST) Received: from kryptonite.sge.net(10.1.2.11) by titanium.sge.net via smap (3.2) id xma021859; Sat, 9 Jan 99 14:21:26 +1100 Received: from amber. (ice-int2.sge.net [10.1.2.254]) by kryptonite.sge.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA16139 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 14:21:26 +1100 (EST) Message-Id: <199901090321.OAA16139@kryptonite.sge.net> From: WICKHAM Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: H-COST: rules of the list? Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 14:19:16 +1100 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: WICKHAM Raymond Just to state that I also stand with the gentles and ratify Sandras comments Enough said Play on Damocles Truhart Principality of Lachac Barony of Rowany Sometimes I have a terrible need of, shall I say the word, religion. Then I go out at night and paint the stars. --Vincent van Gogh _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 8 23:52:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA28602 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 23:51:59 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA29596; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 22:01:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA21371 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 21:59:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id VAA21339 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 21:58:52 -0700 (MST) Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 21:58:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 2709 invoked from network); 9 Jan 1999 04:54:20 -0000 Received: from 2.64.3-8.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (207.231.64.2) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 9 Jan 1999 04:54:20 -0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19990108205945.3e970b56@mail2.quiknet.com> X-Sender: joanj@mail2.quiknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: H-COST: Sutter's Fort 1999 Schedule Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Joan M Jurancich As I have in past years (just a little slow this time ), here is the schedule for docent activities at Sutter's Fort in Sacramento, CA, during 1999. When I am at the Fort, I can usually be found in the Blanket Factory or the Kitchen. SUTTER'S FORT STATE HISTORIC PARK 2701 L Street, Sacramento, CA 95816 During all of the "special days" described below, the participants are in clothing circa 1846 (Living History and Summer Interpretive Program are most accurately costumed), working at tasks of the time. Come in and "set a spell". An added bonus, if a particular room is being used by an interpreter, you are invited in. FORT GIFT SHOP/BOOK STORE open daily. Well worth a visit. Call for information at 916-442-4966. LIVING HISTORY DAYS for 1999 10am to 4pm, $6 for adults [over 13], $3 for children [6 - 12], under 6 free During Living History Days we try to bring you back to 1846, rather like walking into the past. These events go on rain or shine; in the past we have had some real downpours. Saturday, March 6 Saturday, April 17 Saturday, June 19 Saturday, September 18 Saturday, November 20* *Evening Living History, call 916-445-7373 for reservations starting on October 15th; this is a reservation-only, no-refund, guided tour of Sutter's Fort at night. You can be a "ghost from the future" and eavesdrop. PIONEER DEMONSTRATION DAYS for 1999 10am to 5pm, $3 for adults, $1.50 for children, under 6 free; increased fee in June/July/August During "Demo Days" we show you some of the activities that our ancestors worked at. Saturday, January 23 Saturday, February 13 & 20 Saturday, March 20 +Friday, Saturday, Sunday April 23, 24, 25 [increased fee] Saturday, May 8 & 16 Saturday, June 12 [increased fee] Saturday, July 10 & 17 [increased fee] Saturday, August 14 & 21 [increased fee] Saturday, September 11 Saturday, October 9 & 15 Saturday, November 13 Saturday, December 11 (Christmas at the Fort) +Mountain Man/Pioneer Traders' & Crafts Faire: Early 1800s era goods sold (mostly reproduction, but some antiques), historic demonstrations, "hands-on" activities. Friday & Saturday 10am-5pm, Sunday 10am-4pm. "HISTORY LIVE", A SUMMER PROGRAM Memorial Day weekend through Labor Day 10am to 5pm, $6 for adults, $3 for children, under 6 free Live Reenactors on site every day Please call the Fort for more information 916-445-4422. Joan Jurancich Sacramento, CA joanj@quiknet.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 9 00:00:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA28634 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 00:00:01 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA00369; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 22:10:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA22120 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 22:07:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from hummer.tci.net (hummer.TCI.NET [209.19.4.19]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA22106 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 22:07:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from 59303-a (c59303-a.mckiny1.tx.home.com [24.4.53.172]) by hummer.tci.net with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2232.9) id YRF0SBCF; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 22:06:37 -0700 Message-ID: <019101be3b90$b9038e60$ac350418@59303-a.plano1.tx.home.com> From: "Franchesca Havas" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: SCA garb list Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 23:26:08 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Franchesca Havas" Site fails ping and all other tests. I think they are gone gone gone. They may have lost their domain registration. Sincerely, Ches aka Chiara Francesca Steward of Coronation XL http://www.io.com/~ches/coronation99 -----Original Message----- From: Leslie Helms To: lynoure@tuug.org ; h-costume@indra.com Date: Friday, January 08, 1999 8:51 PM Subject: Re: H-COST: SCA garb list : :-Poster: Leslie Helms : :It appears that although the sca-garb list is still operating, the control :functions are down and subscriptions can't be processed. Weird! They're :trying to regroup. : :Leslie : _________________________________________________________________ : To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com : with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME : _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 9 01:33:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA29845 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 01:33:28 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA07306; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 23:42:04 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA27961 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 23:39:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.mc.net (mail.mc.net [209.172.128.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id XAA27954 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 23:39:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 25497 invoked from network); 9 Jan 1999 06:40:14 -0000 Received: from tntmodem2-34.mc.net (HELO HEATHERL) (209.172.134.34) by mail.mc.net with SMTP; 9 Jan 1999 06:40:14 -0000 Message-ID: <36971D94.7FF0@mc.net> Date: Sat, 09 Jan 1999 01:12:52 -0800 From: Heather Law Organization: Interstellar Trading Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: SCA-GARB list-it's out there, Scully References: <199901090102.SAA00572@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Rating: mail.mc.net 1.6.1 0/1000/N Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Heather Law Hi everyone, Sorry for another slightly OT SCA posting, but hoping the efforts will provide a separate forum for SCA-specific stuff and help keep it off here. (We are a big group, BTW, so maybe that's why we seem to get "targetted" a lot for discussing OT stuff here.) Seems that the server is indeed down, and the list owner is searching for another one to move the list to (a couple of suggestions have already been offered). As soon as I hear back from her, I'll let you know. Heather/Sister Ed the Disorganized _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 9 01:59:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA29928 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 01:59:59 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA05556; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 23:09:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA26194 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 23:06:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.rdc1.nj.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.nj.home.com [24.3.128.66]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA26188 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 23:06:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from CC1010062-A.avnl1.nj.home.com ([24.3.134.203]) by mail.rdc1.nj.home.com (InterMail v4.0 201-221-107) with SMTP id <19990109060655.TOXD2583.mail.rdc1.nj.home.com@CC1010062-A.avnl1.nj.home.com> for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 22:06:55 -0800 Message-ID: <060c01be3b96$d13e3240$cb860318@CC1010062-A.avnl1.nj.home.com> From: "Kyna Grannd" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: SCA garb list Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 01:10:54 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Kyna Grannd" The server has to still exist or the email wouldn't go through it :) Here's their info from Internic: Registrant: Cool List Mail Services (COOLLIST-DOM) PO Box 692 Melbourne, Victoria 3106 AU Domain Name: COOLLIST.COM Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Zone Contact: Astra Labs Hostmaster (ALH2-ORG) domain@ASTRAWEB.COM +613-9846-6482 Fax- - Billing Contact: Astra Labs Hostmaster (ALH2-ORG) domain@ASTRAWEB.COM +613-9846-6482 Fax- - Record last updated on 02-Aug-98. Record created on 10-May-97. Database last updated on 8-Jan-99 05:02:12 EST. Domain servers in listed order: NS1.ASTRAWEB.COM 209.133.34.81 NS1.NOC.ASTRAWEB.COM 209.133.78.10 Perhaps emailing the tech person to ask how to subscribe and unsubscribe? Think I'll do that now, as a matter of fact :) Suz -----Original Message----- From: Franchesca Havas To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Saturday, January 09, 1999 12:06 AM Subject: Re: H-COST: SCA garb list > >-Poster: "Franchesca Havas" > >Site fails ping and all other tests. I think they are gone gone gone. They >may have lost their domain registration. > >Sincerely, >Ches >aka Chiara Francesca >Steward of Coronation XL >http://www.io.com/~ches/coronation99 > >-----Original Message----- >From: Leslie Helms >To: lynoure@tuug.org ; h-costume@indra.com > >Date: Friday, January 08, 1999 8:51 PM >Subject: Re: H-COST: SCA garb list > > >: >:-Poster: Leslie Helms >: >:It appears that although the sca-garb list is still operating, the control >:functions are down and subscriptions can't be processed. Weird! They're >:trying to regroup. >: >:Leslie >: _________________________________________________________________ >: To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com >: with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME >: > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 9 05:40:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA03695 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 05:40:50 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id DAA15429; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 03:50:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id DAA07362 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 03:48:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.73]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id DAA07245 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 03:48:12 -0700 (MST) From: MaggiRos@aol.com Received: from MaggiRos@aol.com by imo29.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id LGAGa01222 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 05:46:51 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 05:46:51 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Flax Linen was re: HELP Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 224 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com In a message dated 1/6/99 4:48:52 PM Pacific Standard Time, margo@directcon.net writes: > > -Poster: Margo Anderson > > Somehow a lot of confusion seems to have come up on this thread about > >the flax/linen issue. Flax is *never* the name of a cloth. > > I'm afraid that should read "should never be" not "is never". Some years > ago, I was working at House of Fabrics. We got a shipment of a new line of > fabric that was named "Flax". As I recall, it was a nice heavy 50/50/ > cotton/linen blend. Perhaps the poster saw some of this fabric for sale? > > Margo Back in the bad old days when Cloth World was polyester-city, I saw "linen- look" fabric (something poly/rayon I think) posted as linen. Scandalous. But I believe the subtle point was the flax is a plant, linen is a fabric. Curiously, wool is wool and cotton is cotton, but flax is linen. The remaining linguistic analysis is left as an exercise for the student. MaggiRos ~what, HER again? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 9 06:40:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA03891 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 06:40:00 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id EAA16878; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 04:49:54 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id EAA11808 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 04:47:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo21.mx.aol.com (imo21.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.65]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id EAA11797 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 04:47:27 -0700 (MST) From: MaggiRos@aol.com Received: from MaggiRos@aol.com by imo21.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id HBSJa25630 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 06:46:51 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 06:46:51 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: help with men's and women's German Ren Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 224 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com In a message dated 1/6/99 9:11:19 PM Pacific Standard Time, benrumson@worldnet.att.net writes: > > Marionetta@aol.com wrote: > > > I'd like these to be reasonably accurate and would like to use velveteen > since > > I've got a ton of black velveteen. But is cotton velveteen the right > thing to > > use? Or is nylon/rayon velvet more appropriate? (silk's outta price > range) > > Any tips on the best way to slash velvet? > > I'm certainly no expert but I did take a class at Costume College from > Mistress > Juliana who is (imo) an expert on German Ren. I wouldn't try to slash > velvet. If > you want slashed sleeves use a good felted wool. It won't ravel and velvet > will > ravel like crazy if you slash and not finish off the edges. > > CArolyn If you're going to slash anything (as opposed to making individual panes) best to cut to the bias (diagonal to the grain). Oh, it will ravel, but it will max out eventually. Depending on the persona, this can be a character defining moment in costume! I wouldn't slash velvet either. For Ren German, stick with wool for most things. For economy, I have used brushed denim --all cotton--which strikes me as an acceptable substitute for frieze. (I'd like to recommend no-wale corduroy, but I'm not willing to take the flak, plus it's nearly impossible to find anymore so never mind.) Cotton poplin works well too. Either is a serviceable, sturdy, workaday fabric suitable for plain working campfollowers who have a job to do. They also take cuttes, pinks, and slashes quite nicely. Yeah, they ravel. So? (oops, channelling Clara there for a second! Attitude adjustment ) If your German Ren persona is something rather more gently bred, fine wool is still reliable, and good cotton velvet is even better. The bands, on fine ladies, anyway seem to have been most often, but not exclusively, golden. Just as most //but not all// of the plackets in placket-front dresses were white. Just as not every dress was a placket front dress. There are LOTS of pictures to show you what kinds of brocade patterns are period. No little bitty milles-fleurs flowers or cabbage roses. In any case, modern silk velvet probably isn't much like 16th century silk velvet, so don't worry about that!. A heavy cotton velvet (the brand name DeBall is revered in my house) has the weight, the depth of colour, and the drape that I can see an 16th C. noblewoman finding to her taste. Some cotton/rayon velveteens are very fine indeed (M... M... damn, the manufacturer name has just gone out of my head!). I know budgets are always an issue, but try to keep some perspective. Create a persona who would wear what you can afford. MaggiRos ~and yes, Juliana is definitly THE German Ren expert. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 9 06:56:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA03944 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 06:56:55 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id FAA17328; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 05:06:49 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id FAA12340 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 05:04:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.68]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id FAA12334 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 05:04:25 -0700 (MST) From: MaggiRos@aol.com Received: from MaggiRos@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id HZCKa03463 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 07:03:52 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3442ad45.369745a8@aol.com> Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 07:03:52 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: field trip report and color question Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 224 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com Responding as a stuffy purist... In a message dated 1/7/99 8:03:59 AM Pacific Standard Time, hope.greenberg@uvm.edu writes: > > 1) It's antique satin but with a fine weave--no nubblies. Not linen, > wool, or real silk, *sigh* though the black back makes it look > rather like shot silk. Is it an acceptable substitute for the > authenticity minded? No nubblies? It may very well be quite nice. However, I have learned my lesson about approving anything "over the phone". :) But I think I know what you mean, and suspect I'd say OK. Assuming you were waiting for my approval > > 2) The color: it is between plum-purple-taupe-grey, very subdued. I saw > several gowns in the above exhibit of the same or nearly the same color > but I don't know if this is a paint-only color or if there would have > been a dye color like this in the mid-15th century. Any ideas? > I've never been a big fan of this "paint only" idea. That's usually someone's way of excusing their own lack of care. Silk can take pretty much any color, in an astonishing range of shades. And if it were a portrait of ME, I'd expect the man to paint it as I wore it, dammit! I like that gown! But in any case, as you describe it, I see no reason why this should be thought of as a "made up " color. Still, as I say, I'm not convinced that any color in a painting was impossble to a dyer, or that any patron would want it to be. MaggiRos ~All my men wear a sword, or they wear nothing at all. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 9 07:04:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA03981 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 07:04:20 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id FAA17520; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 05:14:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id FAA12590 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 05:11:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id FAA12584 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 05:11:55 -0700 (MST) From: MaggiRos@aol.com Received: from MaggiRos@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id FMJTa04794 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 07:10:37 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <94aa8e0.3697473d@aol.com> Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 07:10:37 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: help with men's and women's German Ren Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 224 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com In a message dated 1/7/99 12:35:00 PM Pacific Standard Time, margo@directcon.net writes: > > I usually cut slashes with an Exacto knife. Some people swear by rotary > cutters. For small cuttes I use a charp. No dragging against the fabric, Just a sharp bang, and voila! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 9 07:07:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA03994 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 07:07:47 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id FAA17629; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 05:17:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id FAA12719 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 05:15:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id FAA12714 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 05:15:16 -0700 (MST) From: MaggiRos@aol.com Received: from MaggiRos@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id AHUa019752 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 07:14:31 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 07:14:31 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: foundation garments Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 224 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com In a message dated 1/7/99 1:22:25 PM Pacific Standard Time, ZBLGilbert@aol.com writes: > > My sense at the time was that women weren't supposed to "bounce." Firm > foundation garments prevented that. In addition, as I recall, my > girlfriends > and I thought that the social popularity of panty girdles was due to the > difficulty of hanky panky while wearing them. Not to mention that before pantyhose, you had to have some place to stick the "garters" that held up your stockings. MaggiRos class of '68 _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 9 11:20:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA04857 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 11:20:16 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA28064; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 09:30:02 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA25539 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 09:27:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA25532 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 09:27:36 -0700 (MST) From: Appin1@aol.com Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id JQJFa18627 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 11:26:15 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <6312fb24.36978327@aol.com> Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 11:26:15 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 230 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Appin1@aol.com I have seen a female skeleton from the Mutter Museum (a medical museum) in Philadelphia that dates from late Victorian times. The ribcage is deformed from the tightness of the corsetry. This is the only example I have seen. Kathleen Norvell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 9 12:21:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA05075 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 12:21:29 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA02032; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 10:31:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA00343 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 10:28:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA00334 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 10:28:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p43.directcon.net [206.170.184.92]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA15736 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 09:24:45 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 09:24:45 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901091724.JAA15736@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: help with men's and women's German Ren Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 9 13:13:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA05241 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 13:13:52 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA05121; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 11:23:44 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA04654 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 11:21:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo28.mx.aol.com (imo28.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.72]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA04627 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 11:21:14 -0700 (MST) From: Appin1@aol.com Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo28.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id OPAVa23173 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 13:19:05 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 13:19:05 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Color associations Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 230 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Appin1@aol.com Robin -- I saw a portrait of Queen Elizabeth in a forest green gown at the "Treasure Houses of Britain" exhibit many years ago. At the time, I had some fairly heavy green changement taffeta that I wanted to make into an Elizabethan gown, but I had been cautioned about the color green. I figured, after seeing the portrait, that if it was good enough for Queen Elizabeth, it was good enough for me! Kathleen Norvell (Alyson of Islay, OL) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 9 13:23:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA05275 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 13:23:48 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA05730; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 11:33:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA05431 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 11:31:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from send105.yahoomail.com (send105.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.128]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id LAA05426 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 11:31:17 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <19990109183302.18994.rocketmail@send105.yahoomail.com> Received: from [153.35.253.196] by send105.yahoomail.com; Sat, 09 Jan 1999 10:33:02 PST Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 10:33:02 -0800 (PST) From: "Kristen M. Sieber" Subject: H-COST: Crochet hook To: Historic Costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Kristen M. Sieber" I do not crochet, but my mother has been kind enough to agree to crochet me a snood. The pattern calls for a #9 hook but all the hooks she has have letter indicators. Is there a corresponding leeter/number or should she just buy a new hook? kristen M. Sieber lady_gawain@yahoo.com _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 9 13:26:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA05288 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 13:26:27 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA05866; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 11:35:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA05634 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 11:33:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from send103.yahoomail.com (send103.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.92]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id LAA05621 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 11:33:26 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <19990109183505.5846.rocketmail@send103.yahoomail.com> Received: from [153.35.253.196] by send103.yahoomail.com; Sat, 09 Jan 1999 10:35:04 PST Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 10:35:04 -0800 (PST) From: "Kristen M. Sieber" Subject: H-COST: Whoops To: Historic Costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Kristen M. Sieber" The crochet hook question was supposed to go to h-needlework, but if you have an answer, I'll take it! Kristen M. Sieber lady_gawain@yahoo.com _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 9 14:57:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA05604 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 14:57:21 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA11639; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 13:06:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA13398 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 13:04:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from sd.znet.com (sd.znet.com [207.167.64.5]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA13385 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 13:04:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.167.66.101] (sdts10-15.znet.net [207.167.66.15]) by sd.znet.com (8.9.2/8.9.2/jjb-sd) with ESMTP id MAA04154 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 12:04:24 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 12:04:24 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Julie Adams Subject: Re: H-COST: help with men's and women's German Ren Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Julie Adams >-Poster: Marionetta@aol.com >I'd like these to be reasonably accurate and would like to use velveteen since >I've got a ton of black velveteen. But is cotton velveteen the right thing to >use? Or is nylon/rayon velvet more appropriate? (silk's outta price range) I don't think the modern nylon/rayon or even the silk/acetate velvets are thick enough to replicate 16th c velvet. IMHO, the most appropriate velvets are ones that are so thick in the pile that they have no nap. Many of the heavy cotton velvets are pretty good, but my favorite is a 100% cotton velvet that I get a yardage city. Its very plush. A matinee' velvet can also be good (cotton/sythetic blend). I personally don't like velveteen because the nap wears off easier than the velvets over time, but its better IMHO than the rayon or silk velvets with the thin pile. >Any tips on the best way to slash velvet? If I'm going to slash velvet, I prefer to use a heavy cotton apholstery velvet with a rubberized backing. But I'll only use that for slashed banding or small areas because the rubberized backing makes it too hot. Some velvet takes pinking well (slashes less than 1" or so), but most won't take slashes longer than that without looking cheap. The backing is usually not strong enough and the slashes won't hold out in nice period looking arcs, but will crumple. I don't like to do bonded interfacings/backings because even then they tend to roll over a bit and you can see the interfacing. If you want slashes longer than 1" of velvet, I recommend biting the bullet and sewing them into lined panes (sew them into tubes or bag line each pane) and attaching them individually. If you don't want to go through the work, then use the velvet as base fabric and apply slashed bands of wool or leather over the top. >Brocade is often mentioned as being >used in the plastron, but none of the illustrations I've seen are very clear >on what this brocade looks like, any hints on the types of modern brocades >that might work for this? If you are making a Cranach-style with an open front, then the plastron (or placket) is usually, but not always white and there is a band of brocade with pearl embroidery along the top which is about 3"-5" wide. I suggest having it scale to the size of your bustline (wider the larger busted you are). The pearl embroidery is done over the top of gold brocade, but the pearled pattern never matches the brocade pattern. Be sure your lacing doesn't go over the decorated band. The lacing is always zig-zag or straight across lacing, never cross-lacing. The lacing holes, or loops are placed inside the edge of the bodice so they are invisible. Many German bodices do not have plackets and I suggest that you try one of those before going for a placket-front style. Hooks and eyes should be used to attach the bodice to the decorated band of the plastron to keep it tight. I suggest color on color damask brocades as Maggie described. >I'm assuming the >puffs/undersleeves should be a light weight white cotton fabric, like batiste, >is this right? I've got an Elizabethan corset (a la hunniset) will this work >for German Ren? Or do I even need one...? Puffs at the elbow and armscye are often the shift puffed through, but other puffing in the sleeve is usually applied false puffing. The higher class you are, the less likely your puffing will be the shift. In lower class women, most of the puffing is the shift puffed through. If you are a large woman, I highly recommend some kind of corselet or support built into the bodice. It should not be cone-shaped like Elizabethan, but preferably keeps your natural curves. The placket front bodice will look really bad if you are a woman of substance and do not use support. The plastron should have some support as well. I've seen Victorian corsets used and they actually look much better than Elizabethan ones. The tricky part of the Cranach dress is that the skirt is always done as organ-pipe pleating, knife pleating or box pleating. Don't cartridge pleat it. The opening of the skirt should be in the side front along one side of the bodice edge. The skirt is attached to a band or ribbon then basted inside the bodice and placket. The placket must have some hooks and eyes near the skirt as well. I'll look for some hat instructions in some of my private posts later. Gotta go. Check out my web site: http://www.znet.com/~savaskan/germans Julie Adams aka Meisterin Julianna _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 10 03:30:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA14954 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 03:30:17 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA06303; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 11:40:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA06131 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 11:38:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from send103.yahoomail.com (send103.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.92]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id LAA06124 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 11:38:28 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <19990109184007.8488.rocketmail@send103.yahoomail.com> Received: from [153.35.253.196] by send103.yahoomail.com; Sat, 09 Jan 1999 10:40:07 PST Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 10:40:07 -0800 (PST) From: "Kristen M. Sieber" Subject: H-COST: Side lacing To: Historic Costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Kristen M. Sieber" When putting side lacings in a cotehardie/kirtle/or whatever it's called, how far down the waist/hip does the opening go? _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 10 03:31:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA14961 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 03:31:01 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA06356; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 11:41:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA06201 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 11:39:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from send1e.yahoomail.com (send1e.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.64]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id LAA06196 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 11:39:12 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <19990109183427.10216.rocketmail@send1e.yahoomail.com> Received: from [153.35.253.196] by send1e; Sat, 09 Jan 1999 10:34:27 PST Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 10:34:27 -0800 (PST) From: "Kristen M. Sieber" Subject: H-COST: Side lacing To: Historic Costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Kristen M. Sieber" Sorry, forgot to sign this. When putting side lacings in a cotehardie/kirtle/or whatever it's called, how far down the waist/hip does the opening go? == Morgaine of Glastonbury MKA Kristen Morgaine Sieber lady_gawain@yahoo.com _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 10 03:39:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA14989 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 03:39:42 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id AAA23676; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 00:10:29 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id AAA28054 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 00:08:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id AAA28047 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 00:08:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.235] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 0zzEyj-00030u-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 23:08:05 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990109223355.00bb33a0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 09 Jan 1999 22:36:50 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: H-COST: thimbles, size 8 In-Reply-To: <199901081706.MAA14249@bigpapa.nothinbut.net> References: <000201be38f0$c4b5ae20$5d14ffd0@default> <19990104215618.25469.qmail@www0r.netaddress.usa.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >Second-does anyone know of a place to order or buy thimbles by size. >I need a size 8 for my mother-in-law. > >Thank you list for your help. >p. Try Lacis. I got one in a size 12 to accommodate a lump on my thimble-finger, so you should have no trouble at all. Lacis has a web site (www.lacis.com???) and they mail order. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 10 03:43:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA15005 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 03:43:47 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id AAA23664; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 00:10:22 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id AAA28039 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 00:08:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id AAA28032 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 00:08:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.235] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 0zzEyd-00030u-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 23:08:00 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990109222426.00b9e260@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 09 Jan 1999 22:25:03 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: 15" waists - any surviving garments? In-Reply-To: <95aa8a9f.369631a2@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows My guess is that she hasn't stopped growing either. >I have a 15 year old daughter that I just made an Elizabethan corset for, and >her un-corseted bust and waist measurements are 34" and 21", respectively, and >no, she definately does NOT have any kind of eating disorder...... > > > > >I don't think I was ever that tiny after about the age of 8, so she must be a >throwback to an earlier generation of willowy women..... > >Jane > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 10 03:44:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA15012 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 03:44:01 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA00899; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 17:46:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA03841 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 17:44:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (mailsorter-105.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.95]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA03831 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 17:44:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailtod-141.iap.bryant.webtv.net (mailtod-141.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.128]) by mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with ESMTP id QAA07379; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 16:44:23 -0800 (PST) Received: (from production@localhost) by mailtod-141.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/mt.gso.26Feb98) id QAA05612; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 16:44:23 -0800 (PST) X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAuAhUAjot75ePtfuqSDSRvGG/KeoJYw6wCFQC68sqK1BvV2NQ8Cf5fsQ+FG+xmTg== From: starsinger@webtv.net (theresa sorrell) Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 17:44:23 -0700 (MST) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Crochet hook Message-ID: <9452-3697F7E7-697@mailtod-141.iap.bryant.webtv.net> In-Reply-To: "Kristen M. Sieber" 's message of Sat, 9 Jan 1999 10:33:02 -0800 (PST) Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: starsinger@webtv.net (theresa sorrell) Having crocheted for years, I have some experience in the numbering. Hooks with B, C, D on up are used for wools and corser material. Hooks with 00, 00 thru 16 (think miniatures) are used for thread crochet. I believe the cross over in hook sizes is B/0 and C/00. What your mom needs is the steel hooks not the aluminum or plastic. Hope this helps. Starsinger _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 10 03:46:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA15022 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 03:46:24 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA15567; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 14:11:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA18405 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 14:08:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.36]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA18396 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 14:08:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from LOCALNAME ([12.66.4.230]) by mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.05 118 121 101) with SMTP id <19990109210813.GVJR21411@LOCALNAME>; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 21:08:13 +0000 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Connie Carroll" Organization: Home For Deranged Bunnies To: lady_gawain@yahoo.com Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 16:06:27 +0000 Subject: Re: H-COST: Crochet hook CC: h-costume@indra.com Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.30) Message-Id: <19990109210813.GVJR21411@LOCALNAME> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Connie Carroll" Kristen, Saw you message.I'm a crocheter and I'm afriad you'll need to buy a #9 hook. The lettered hooks, some of which claim they corrspond to the numbers don't really. I've never found them to. I own a collection of both and I recommend buying a #9 steel hook. They only cost about $1 at Walmart or Michaels. Kassandra NickKraken > -Poster: "Kristen M. Sieber" > > I do not crochet, but my mother has been kind enough to agree to > crochet me a snood. The pattern calls for a #9 hook but all the > hooks she has have letter indicators. Is there a corresponding > leeter/number or should she just buy a new hook? > > kristen M. Sieber > lady_gawain@yahoo.com JUST CALL ME MISTRESS BUNNY _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 10 03:47:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA15029 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 03:47:30 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id AAA23695; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 00:10:35 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id AAA28065 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 00:08:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id AAA28057 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 00:08:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.235] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 0zzEyk-00030u-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 23:08:07 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990109223726.00bb85e0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 09 Jan 1999 22:38:20 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays In-Reply-To: <199901081706.MAA14261@bigpapa.nothinbut.net> References: <4.1.19990107153012.009198e0@mail.tmsonline.com> <36950228.CA5F7EA@best.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Fascinating. And you have measured her at this small corseted size? I'm impressed. >Our Maggie is 15 years old. She is 6 ft. tall. She also weighs about >119 on a good day. She is not anorexic-she eats like mad but she just >came like that (built like her dad, certainly not moi!) She can >easily corset down to 15 or 16 inches. When we were walking through >the Nicholas and Alexandria exhibit her favorite game was "Mom, >could I wear that?" The waists on these actual garments were tiny and >though they would have been too short for her she loved thinking that >she could squiggle into the tiny waists. I would guess that there >were large variations in size as today with the tiny waist being the >goal. >p. > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 10 03:48:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA15036 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 03:48:04 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA08240; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 19:39:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA11533 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 19:36:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (root@jefferson.patriot.net [206.151.9.249]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA11524 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 19:36:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from [206.151.9.30] (th-0-21.patriot.net [206.151.9.30]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA10362 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 21:32:24 -0500 Message-Id: <199901100232.VAA10362@jefferson.patriot.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: Color associations Date: Sat, 9 Jan 99 21:36:13 -0500 x-sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Hope Greenberg wrote about Greensleeves, >And where in the world >did the notion that this is about a prostitute come from? Researching >that tradition would probably be more fun than the song itself. Mary >Magdalen is often, but not always, pictured in green (and carrying that >neat little jar and usually wearing interesting headgear) but so are >several of the women saints so I don't think that helps. The idea that Mary Magdalen was a prostitute is actually combining her life story with that of other women, some of whom were prostitutes. A good book is _Mary Magdalen: Myth and Metaphor_, (sorry I forget the author) which separates the myths. Magdalen's "truth" is that she knew Jesus (she was practically an apostle). After His death, she became a hermit in the desert, and her hair grew to such an extent as to hide her nakedness. (that's a rather non-costume connection!) Hope's point make's sense as the green dress images may have been painted at a time when Magdalen was thought to be a prostitute. Her distinguishing characteristic, however, is her long hair. Is the interesting headgear arrangement of a great quantity of hair? Myths die hard, whether it's the reputation of saints or beliefs about costume! -Carol Kocian _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 10 03:49:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA15043 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 03:49:54 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id AAA23713; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 00:10:40 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id AAA28089 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 00:08:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id AAA28072 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 00:08:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.235] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 0zzEyp-00030u-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 23:08:12 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990109224822.00bb7c20@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 09 Jan 1999 23:00:31 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: field trip report and color question In-Reply-To: <3442ad45.369745a8@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >> but I don't know if this is a paint-only color or if there would have >> been a dye color like this in the mid-15th century. Any ideas? >> > >I've never been a big fan of this "paint only" idea. That's usually someone's >way of excusing their own lack of care. Silk can take pretty much any color, >in an astonishing range of shades. And if it were a portrait of ME, I'd >expect the man to paint it as I wore it, dammit! I like that gown! The 'paint only' idea makes sense when the artist (Medieval) is illuminating a manuscript from memory, has a limited palate to work from, and uses his colours pure without mixing. Some of their illos are very cartoony and not very believable for actual fabric colour. The silk-like reds and blues they used for painting wool garments, which don't take dye like silk does, are what I would mean by 'paint only' colours. But after the Flemmish painters (and others) had introduced the kind of painting where they were looking at real things and painting them as they saw them, I agree with you. The palate was larger by then, if only by mixing. But the Medieval illuminaters mostly didn't do portraits from life anyway. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 10 04:01:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA15089 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 04:01:30 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA07267; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 19:28:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA10870 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 19:26:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from ms1.dgsys.com (ms1.dgsys.com [204.97.64.22]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA10862 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 19:26:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from dgs.dgsys.com (robin@hme-dgs.dgsys.com [207.154.14.2]) by ms1.dgsys.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA03548 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 21:26:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by dgs.dgsys.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA09366 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 21:26:08 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: dgs.dgsys.com: robin owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 21:26:08 -0500 (EST) From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Pigments, dyes, and the accuracy of paintings (was: color question) In-Reply-To: <3442ad45.369745a8@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Robin Netherton On Sat, 9 Jan 1999 MaggiRos@aol.com wrote: > > 2) The color: it is between plum-purple-taupe-grey, very subdued. I saw > > several gowns in the above exhibit of the same or nearly the same color > > but I don't know if this is a paint-only color or if there would have > > been a dye color like this in the mid-15th century. Any ideas? > > I've never been a big fan of this "paint only" idea. That's usually someone's > way of excusing their own lack of care. Silk can take pretty much any color, > in an astonishing range of shades. And if it were a portrait of ME, I'd > expect the man to paint it as I wore it, dammit! I like that gown! > ... I'm not convinced that any > color in a painting was impossble to a dyer, or that any patron would want it > to be. I can't speak authoritatively to the color in the specific painting described (offhand, it sounds workable to me), but I can vouch for the fact that certain colors that were available in pigments did not exist as dyes, and yet these colors were still frequently used to depict clothing in paintings, at least through the 15th century. The obvious example is ultramarine blue, which is made into paint by grinding a mineral into dust and mixing it with a binder to lay it on the paper -- a process that cannot be used to dye fabric. I am not a dyer, but people who have made medieval dyes their specialty have assured me that there is no dye equivalent for ultramarine blue. That means that, say, those bright blue gowns in the Tres Riches Heures do not represent anything that existed in life, and in looking at these sources, we need to readjust our eye to allow for the change in palette. As to why patrons would want artists to use a nonexistent color to depict clothing, we need to remember that the purpose of portraiture was, for a long time, not the same as it is today. Many depictions in panel and manuscript paintings did not have the primary purpose of providing an accurate visual representation of the individual. (The same is true of donor images in stained glass and other media, and effigy images in alabasters and monumental brasses.) Many of the artist's (and patron's) choices may may have been intended to designate the importance, wealth, or social status of the person. Michael Baxandall, in _Painting and Experience in Fifteenth-Century Italy_, provides some excellent examples of the symbolic use of pigment based on written contracts between patrons and painters. I will type in one longish passage below because it's too good not to share (typos are mine): "Ghirlandaio's contract insists on the painter using a good quality of colours and particularly of ultramarine. The contracts' general anxiety about the quality of blue pigment as well as of gold was reasonable. After gold and silver, ultramarine was the most expensive and difficult colour the painter used. There were cheap and dear grades and there were even cheaper substitutes, generally referred to as German blue. (Ultramarine was made from powdered lapis lazuli expensively imported from the Levant; the powder was soaked several times to draw off the colour and the first yield -- a rich violet blue -- was the best and most expensive. German blue was just carbonate of copper; it was less splendid in its colour and, much more seriously, unstable in use, particularly in fresco.) To avoid being let down about blues, clients specified ultramarine; more prudent clients stipulated a particular grade -- ultramarine at one or two or four florins an ounce. The painters and their public were alert to all this, and the exotic and dangerous character of ultramarine was a means of accent that we, for whom dark blue is probably no more striking than scarlet or vermilion, are liable to miss. We can follow well enough when it is used simply to pick out the principal figure of Christ or Mary in a biblical scene, but the interesting uses are more subtle than this. In Sassetta's panel of _St. Frances Renouncing His Heritage_ in [London's] National Gallery, the gown St. Francis discards is an ultramarine gown. In Masaccio's expensively pigmented _Crucifixion,_ the vital narrative gesture of St. John's right arm is an ultramarine gesture. And so on. Even beyond this the contracts point to a sophistication about blues, a capacity to discriminate between one and another, with which our own culture does not equip us. In 1408 Gherardo Starnina contracted to paint in S. Stefano at Empoli frescoes, now lost, of the _Life of the Virgin._ The contract is meticulous about blue: the ultramarine used for Mary is to be of the quality of two florins to the ounce, while for the rest of the picture ultramarine at one florin to the ounce will do. Importance is registered with a violet tinge." Baxandall goes on to note that the emphasis on gold and ultramarine in painting declined by the latter half of the century for a variety of reasons (and he includes some good costume anecdotes), but the point remains that people clearly placed value on certain pigments for reasons other than their ability to accurately reproduce real clothing. I would guess that the Limbourg brothers had specific reasons for painting the Duc of Berry in ultramarine (and using the color so liberally throughout the books they made in his employ), just as Marie de Gueldre knew exactly what she was doing when she had herself painted in a stylish houppelande that just happened to be Virgin-blue (in a portrait full of other iconographic details typically reserved for Annunciation portraits of the Virgin). Many other pigments were also derived from methods that could not be used to produce dye, so if the same color was achievable in dye, that was happy coincidence. For that reason I generally assume that the exact shades of colors in paintings are suspect unless proven otherwise -- though in the case of later paintings, as portraiture for its own sake became more common, I'm more inclined to assume that there's at least a passing resemblance between fabric and canvas. For an accurate representation of available dye colors, particularly 15th-century and earlier, I usually rely on extant textiles, tapestries, and embroideries, which by definition use colors that were available in dyes. Seeing them in person is best, and if you can get permission to see something up close, you can look at the fibers in turned edges or covered by other threads that have otherwise been protected from fading. (In general, I find it's worth remembering that it was relatively easy for painters and other artists to put trim, jewels, stripes, patterns, etc. on depictions of clothing, compared with the expense and physical considerations of doing the same on real garments. For instance, I've made a hobby of looking for evidence of jeweled hems in artwork (pre-Elizabethan or so), and so far I've only seen them on such figures as angels, saints, goddesses, and fantasy figures. There's a splendid _Last Judgment_ by Jan Provoost in the Groening Museum in Bruges, in which the souls lined up to go to heaven are being issued plain white robes -- with jeweled hems. Once I started seeing jeweled hems as a clue for the viewer, I found it helped with my readings of some more ambiguous works, such as the Lady with the Unicorn tapestries. But that's another lecture. Differentiating the real from the unreal is my favorite teaching theme.) --Robin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 10 12:00:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA16688 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 12:00:07 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA18214; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 10:10:24 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA21604 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 10:07:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from isis.netherworld.com (isis.Netherworld.COM [199.165.233.10]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA21594 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 10:07:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost by isis.netherworld.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA23167 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 09:59:12 -0700 (MST) Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 09:59:08 -0700 (MST) From: Sylvia Rognstad To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Color associations/Mary magdalene In-Reply-To: <199901100232.VAA10362@jefferson.patriot.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sylvia Rognstad > -Poster: > The idea that Mary Magdalen was a prostitute is actually combining > her life story with that of other women, some of whom were prostitutes. A > good book is _Mary Magdalen: Myth and Metaphor_, (sorry I forget the > author) which separates the myths. Magdalen's "truth" is that she knew > Jesus (she was practically an apostle). After His death, she became a > hermit in the desert, and her hair grew to such an extent as to hide her > nakedness. (that's a rather non-costume connection!) Then where did the story in the Bible come from if she wasnt a prostitute? Why were they trying to stone her to death and why did Jesus tell her to go and sin no more, or whatever it was? Sylvia R _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 10 12:23:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA16794 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 12:23:32 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA19455; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 10:33:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA23273 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 10:30:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [207.172.3.234]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA23267 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 10:30:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from clough (207-172-41-127.s127.tnt10.brd.erols.com [207.172.41.127]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA15529 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 12:30:48 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 12:30:48 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199901101730.MAA15529@smtp1.erols.com> X-Sender: clough@pop.erols.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda and Larry Clough Subject: Re: H-COST: Color associations/Mary magdalene Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Brenda and Larry Clough At 09:59 AM 1/10/99 -0700, you wrote: > >-Poster: Sylvia Rognstad > >> -Poster: >> The idea that Mary Magdalen was a prostitute is actually combining >> her life story with that of other women, some of whom were prostitutes. A >> good book is _Mary Magdalen: Myth and Metaphor_, (sorry I forget the >> author) which separates the myths. Magdalen's "truth" is that she knew >> Jesus (she was practically an apostle). After His death, she became a >> hermit in the desert, and her hair grew to such an extent as to hide her >> nakedness. (that's a rather non-costume connection!) > >Then where did the story in the Bible come from if she wasnt a prostitute? >Why were they trying to stone her to death and why did Jesus tell her to >go and sin no more, or whatever it was? > >Sylvia R > That was "the woman taken in adultery," who is not named in any way. There is also Mary sister of Martha and Lazarus, and Mary Magdalen, the jazzy liver who repented and crashed a dinner party so as to pour a jar of expensive ointment over Jesus's feet. Tradition says all three of these ladies are the same person, but this isn't supported by the Bible, and you could just as well assume they were three separate persons. Brenda -- Brenda Clough, author of HOW LIKE A GOD, a science fiction novel from Tor Books _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 10 12:46:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA16887 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 12:46:44 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA20846; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 10:57:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA25101 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 10:54:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from postal.grin.net (root@postal.grin.net [209.104.220.39]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA25095 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 10:54:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from [208.202.189.151] (ppp-151.pm4-1.grin.net [208.202.189.151]) by postal.grin.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA09157 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 09:54:15 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990107165438.00b8c5e0@pop.slip.net> References: <3694C347.F46BBBE5@nash.tds.net> <36925029.D4CBB17B@best.com> <4.1.19990106232920.00b96100@pop.slip.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 10:02:33 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: lilinah@grin.net Subject: Re: H-COST: 15" waists - any surviving garments? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: lilinah@grin.net Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > >I own an 1898 bodice which is so small that the smaller of my daughters >couldn't wear it after she was about 5 or 6 (I tried it on her once about >then). The waist is about 22" measured by the waist band, hook to eye. >And I have looked at the waist measurements of the garments in Nancy >Bradfield's Costume In Detail, which go back to the 1700's. > >I believe 22"-teensy, I just don't believe 15"-teensy. If this were >anything like common I would expect to encounter more teensy-waist antique >garments in collections. I have seen none. Has anyone else on this list? >(real question here, not rhetorical - I really want to know) I'm 5 foot 1 inch tall. From about age 11 until i got pregnant at age 30, i weighed 97 pounds and had no eating disorders-i loved ice cream and cheeses, besides healthful vegetables. My natural measurements were 36-22-36 inches, with a 32 inch back and narrow shoulders. I fit into a number of vintage garments from around either side of the turn of the century (19th to 20th, that is) without corseting. Fitting into modern clothes, however, wasn't always easy, since they're designed for less of a difference between bust and waist or waist and hips (while bust and hips are usually standardized as being pretty close to the same measurement). I was thin, though, and while i might have been able to lace myself down a few inches (i'd guess 4, since i don't mind very tight lacing), i don't think i could have tight-laced myself down a full 7 inches. However, if one looks carefully at late-19th century photos of women with amazingly tiny waists, one can see that many photos have been retouched. They could paint on the pictures even then, often hand-coloring them, and they could touch-up photo images, as well. Thus often the claims of these women (usually, uh, "artistes") to astonishingly tiny waists were more "bragging" than real. Lilinah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 10 13:48:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA17106 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 13:48:09 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA25613; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 11:58:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA29836 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 11:55:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA29829 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 11:55:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA20015 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 19:55:32 +0100 (MET) Received: from pc2 (vp181-15.worldonline.nl [195.241.181.15]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA07919 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 19:55:14 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199901101855.TAA07919@worldonline.nl> From: "Henk 't Jong" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: color question and portraits Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 19:56:57 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands Hi all, Kayta wrote: > The 'paint only' idea makes sense when the artist (Medieval) is > illuminating a manuscript from memory, has a limited palate to work from, > and uses his colours pure without mixing. Some of their illos are very > cartoony and not very believable for actual fabric colour. The silk-like > reds and blues they used for painting wool garments, which don't take dye > like silk does, are what I would mean by 'paint only' colours. > Indeed, you should never take the colours in miniatures as the 100 % authentic real colours of the costumes represented. They might be, however, the nearest the artist could get. A lot of these pictures had symbolical or biblical themes anyway and costume for these themes was more or less stylised. Old testament persons wore a kind of carnavalesk costume with lots of pointy hats (Jew-hats), the new testament pictures had sort of toga's for the disciples and a lot of byzantine-like liturgical clothing up to ca 1300, in classical illustration there was a of gold armour, etc. Only when there are soldiers, peasants and burghers depicted you can get close to the costume of the day. And sometimes portraits of contemporary persons (mostly princes) are meant to be represented... (see below). The farther you get into the middle ages the richer the palette became, the richer the patron the more colours the artist would be able to use. Painters have always mixed colours, but some mixed them more than others. Around 1300 there was a rule which has kept on until the late 15th c-early 16th c; there is a middle colour, most of the time the pure pigment and binder, a darker one; the pure colour mixed with black for the shadow, and a lighter one mixed with white for the lights, with pure white for the high-lights. > But after the Flemish painters (and others) had introduced the kind of > painting where they were looking at real things and painting them as they > saw them, I agree with you. The palette was larger by then, if only by > mixing. But the Medieval illuminaters mostly didn't do portraits from life > anyway. Already in the 9th c there are portraits of several emperors and kings of the Karolingian line which look pretty realistic. There are also some very small inked portraits of Egbert, bishop of Trier in two very different books which both show that he was cross-eyed. But I give you; real portraits in painting only started in about the second quarter of the 14th c, although sculpture of the 12th and 13th c already show some remarkable portraits of kings, queens and nobles. The miniatures of the late 14th to all of the 15th c are very rich in very realistic portraits. Hope this helps, Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 10 14:09:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA17179 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 14:09:55 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA27039; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 12:20:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA01863 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 12:17:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.erols.com (smtp2.erols.com [207.172.3.235]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA01854; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 12:17:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from s0peladn (207-172-79-143.s143.tnt5.rcm.erols.com [207.172.79.143]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA07421; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 14:21:11 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000801be3ccd$dfde4280$8f4faccf@s0peladn> From: "Penny E. Ladnier" To: "Costume DC" Subject: H-COST: Williamsburg Festival Week Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 14:11:48 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Penny E. Ladnier" Williamsburg (Virginia) Festival Week is February 25-28, 1999 There are four shows that go on at the same time: Mid Atlantic Quilt Festival X Mid Atlantic Wearable Art Festival V Williamsburg Vintage Fashion & Accessories Show V (opens Feb. 26) Mid Atlantic Fiber Art Fair III (opens Feb. 26) Detailed information can be found at: http://www.quiltfest.com/wfw/wfwhome.htm I have gone to this festival for the past two years and had a blast. I have also had the opportunity to meet many people from email lists. So if you are going let me know. I will be there the 27-28. On my website I have pictures from the Wearable Arts Show at http://www.costumegallery.com/Hoffman/Challenge.html Make sure to click on the garments to see details of that item. Later...Penny http://www.costumegallery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 10 15:45:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA17508 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 15:45:52 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA04567; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 13:56:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA09658 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 13:53:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from beaver.slip.net (beaver.slip.net [207.171.193.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA09653 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 13:53:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.230.134] (helo=default) by beaver.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 0zzRr6-0000KZ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 12:53:05 -0800 X-Sender: cjcannon@mail.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 12:53:33 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: 15" waists - any surviving garments? In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.19990107165438.00b8c5e0@pop.slip.net> <3694C347.F46BBBE5@nash.tds.net> <36925029.D4CBB17B@best.com> <4.1.19990106232920.00b96100@pop.slip.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 10:02 AM 1/10/99 -0800, you wrote: > >-Poster: lilinah@grin.net > >Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: >> >>I own an 1898 bodice which is so small that the smaller of my daughters >>couldn't wear it after she was about 5 or 6 (I tried it on her once about >>then). The waist is about 22" measured by the waist band, hook to eye. >>And I have looked at the waist measurements of the garments in Nancy >>Bradfield's Costume In Detail, which go back to the 1700's. >> >>I believe 22"-teensy, I just don't believe 15"-teensy. If this were >>anything like common I would expect to encounter more teensy-waist antique >>garments in collections. I have seen none. Has anyone else on this list? >>(real question here, not rhetorical - I really want to know) I'm not sure whether it was Carolyn or Lilinah who wrote the I don't believe paragraph above. My maternal grandmother grew up just after that time. Like the Chinese binding of feet, the ladies in the South at least were laced into their corsets so tightly sometimes that their ribs started to misplace and overlap. My grandmother's aunt tried to do it to her when my grandmother was a young woman, and my grandmother, being in pain and being rather strongwilled, cut the ties that bound her in and refused to wear the device again. But many women, then as now, went with the fashionable, not what would have been healthy/comforbable. Carol Cannon, repeating to you what my maternal grandmother told me when I was myself a child _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 10 19:06:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA18267 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 19:06:49 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA18554; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 17:15:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA26059 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 17:12:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from mx.serv.net (mx.serv.net [205.153.153.234]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA26046 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 17:12:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from gia-g (dialup718.serv.net [207.207.65.82]) by mx.serv.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA01623 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 16:11:59 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <040e01be3cf7$7dc7fe40$5241cfcf@gia-g> From: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" To: "Costume List" Subject: H-COST: successful Candle wax removal Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 16:11:54 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" A success story from me, finally! At a feast this December I accidentally dragged my white chemise sleeve through the green candle not only putting it out, but smearing a goodly amount into the material! Alas! Woe! But H-Costume to the rescue! It just happened that a few days after I done the deed, the list started to post remedies for this laundering challenge. I stuck the chemise out in the garage in my large freezer. My good husband woke me up at midnite to ask me if I wanted the chemise in the freezer ( you should have *seen* the look on his face!!! *guffaw* It was worth him waking me up; if I hadn't been so sleepy I would have laughed right then and there. But I digress) I explained to him that one of the ladies of the H-list said to put the garment in the freezer and then scrape off as much as you could; and another lady of the list said to put the waxy part over steam and then the rest will melt off and then launder. And I went back to sleep... Bless his heart...he did both for me so when I woke up the next morning the candle wax was not only gone but I had to *really* search to find which sleeve had the wax on it! Bless you all for all your help over the year! You have been an fount of information and inspiration. Gia/Giacinta costuming nut _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 10 19:16:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA18315 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 19:16:02 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA19943; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 17:26:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA27342 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 17:23:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from pop.idsi.net (root@pop.idsi.net [208.195.228.22]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA27335 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 17:23:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from chanty (16-ta04wf.idsi.net [208.201.30.118]) by pop.idsi.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id TAA23313 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 19:23:05 -0500 Message-Id: <4.1.19990110192328.00935850@pop.idsi.net> X-Sender: chanty@pop.idsi.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 19:23:50 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Chantal Pecourt Subject: Re: H-COST: successful Candle wax removal In-Reply-To: <040e01be3cf7$7dc7fe40$5241cfcf@gia-g> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Chantal Pecourt You can also place a paper bag under and over the spot and iron it with a low iron. Works wonders Chantal At 04:11 PM 1/10/99 -0800, you wrote: > >-Poster: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" > >A success story from me, finally! > >At a feast this December I accidentally dragged my white chemise sleeve >through the green candle not only putting it out, but smearing a goodly >amount into the material! > >Alas! Woe! > >But H-Costume to the rescue! It just happened that a few days after I done >the deed, the list started to post remedies for this laundering challenge. > >I stuck the chemise out in the garage in my large freezer. My good husband >woke me up at midnite to ask me if I wanted the chemise in the freezer ( you >should have *seen* the look on his face!!! *guffaw* It was worth him waking >me up; if I hadn't been so sleepy I would have laughed right then and there. >But I digress) > >I explained to him that one of the ladies of the H-list said to put the >garment in the freezer and then scrape off as much as you could; and another >lady of the list said to put the waxy part over steam and then the rest will >melt off and then launder. And I went back to sleep... > >Bless his heart...he did both for me so when I woke up the next morning the >candle wax was not only gone but I had to *really* search to find which >sleeve had the wax on it! > >Bless you all for all your help over the year! You have been an fount of >information and inspiration. > >Gia/Giacinta >costuming nut > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 10 19:20:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA18334 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 19:20:30 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA20449; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 17:31:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA27672 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 17:27:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from web312.yahoomail.com (web312.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.108]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id RAA27666 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 17:27:57 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <19990111002804.278.rocketmail@web312.yahoomail.com> Received: from [129.237.24.130] by web312.yahoomail.com; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 16:28:04 PST Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 16:28:04 -0800 (PST) From: Margretta de Subject: Re: H-COST: Side lacing To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margretta de > -Poster: "Kristen M. Sieber" > > When putting side lacings in a cotehardie/kirtle/or > whatever it's called, how far down the waist/hip does > the opening go? Probably to the widest point of your hip, the idea being that it should be tight to the body from there upwards. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 10 19:54:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA18458 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 19:54:09 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA22619; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 18:04:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA00501 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 18:01:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from web306.yahoomail.com (web306.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.188]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id SAA00495 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 18:01:02 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <19990111010117.22815.rocketmail@web306.yahoomail.com> Received: from [129.237.24.130] by web306.yahoomail.com; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 17:01:17 PST Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 17:01:17 -0800 (PST) From: Margretta de Subject: Re: H-COST: help with men's and women's German Ren To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margretta de > -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com > > I usually cut slashes with an Exacto knife. Some > > people swear by rotary cutters. > For small cuttes I use a charp. No dragging against > the fabric, Just a sharp bang, and voila! I just wanted to note that I read once that it was common to treat the line to be slashed with wax, then cut down the middle, reducing fraying. == Margretta de Vries _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 10 20:32:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA18593 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 20:32:26 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA25055; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 18:42:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA03642 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 18:39:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from web311.yahoomail.com (web311.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.107]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id SAA03629 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 18:39:37 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <19990111013944.8643.rocketmail@web311.yahoomail.com> Received: from [129.237.24.130] by web311.yahoomail.com; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 17:39:44 PST Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 17:39:44 -0800 (PST) From: Margretta de Vries Subject: Re: H-COST: 10' Rule To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margretta de Vries > -Poster: Kent & Kat > I think so...I pay $1/yd for antique satin and the > most *I've* paid for fabric is $3/yd there. They > have broadcloth for $0.50/yd. > The other has upholstery fabric as well as the more > usual fabric one finds in a regular store. It also > has a bridal section, a button bin where I've found > good pewter buttons every visit They have a lot of > mill ends so what you encounter varies from visit to > visit although some things are 'normal' such as the > cotton velvet (yum...I need more money!). Wow, this sounds like a great place! Could you give an address and directions? == Margretta de Vries _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 10 21:00:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA18702 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 21:00:28 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA27407; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 19:11:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA05875 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 19:07:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from tor-smtp1.netcom.ca (tor-smtp1.netcom.ca [207.181.101.69]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA05870 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 19:07:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from default (trt-on23-30.netcom.ca [207.181.99.94]) by tor-smtp1.netcom.ca (8.8.7-s-4/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA05455 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 21:07:16 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001401be3d07$db9b3540$5e63b5cf@default> From: "David Stamper & Eve Harris" To: Subject: H-COST: Wax and Fraying Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 21:12:28 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "David Stamper & Eve Harris" Margretta de Vries said: >I just wanted to note that I read once that it was common to treat the >line to be slashed with wax, then cut down the middle, reducing fraying. Janet Arnold talks about treating velvet edges on seams with wax to stop fraying. She mentions that the turned over edges on one extant garment still had waxy feeling stuff on them, blackened by the cut velvet pile. I had the initial impression that wax was applied after cutting, but it makes sense that one would apply it first. I have read somewhere that wardrobe accounts mention a special kind of wax used for this express purpose. Does anyone know its composition? What would be considered a mundane substitute? (New question) Susan Carrol-Clark asked a while ago about sourcing silk and linen thread (we are both Toronto/Ontario area), but I don't remember a response to her query. The linen thread I do know is available is a fairly coarse grade. Is there a good on-line source for notions of this nature? I am particularly interested because I have embarked on an A&S challenge (THE leather jerkin from Janet Arnold + relevant accessories) and I really want to do a good job on every detail. In fact, where can I source iron needles/authentic-style awls etc.? (New question again, I'll stop soon) 16th century period finishing techniques. I find it hard to tell from my sources exactly how garments were finished. I'll be discussing this as well with excellent costumers in my area; in the meantime, are there any good texts that lay this out? Stitching and finishing techniques seem to have different names in different books and different countries; I want to get things straight. Thank you! Eve Harris _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 10 21:06:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA18736 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 21:06:14 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA28537; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 19:16:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA06477 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 19:13:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA06462 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 19:13:13 -0700 (MST) From: ZBLGilbert@aol.com Received: from ZBLGilbert@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id ARXPa05340 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 21:11:58 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 21:11:58 EST To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: H-COST: Skeletons and stays Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 189 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: ZBLGilbert@aol.com My copy of "Metropolitan Fashions of the 1880s: From the 1885 Butterick Catalog" shows the various patterns and lists the waist sizes available. For example, there is a pattern for No. 9712, the Ladies' Walking Skirt, ". . . in 9 sizes for ladies from 20 to 36 inches waist measure." All the patterns that list waist measurements generally show the same range. (For comparison, my new Laughing Moon 1909-1913 Day and Evening Dress pattern is available for waists 21 to 40 inches.) This suggests that the average woman who might buy patterns from Butterick in 1885 had a waist between 20 and 36 inches. I am far from an expert in any historical period at all, but this looks like good evidence that waists are about the same now as then. Does my logic need help? Is the Butterick reprint a poor source of information? Zelda _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 10 22:42:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA19214 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:42:13 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA07738; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 20:52:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA14599 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 20:49:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from alpha.vaxxine.com (alpha.vaxxine.com [209.5.212.5]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA14584 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 20:49:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from vaxxine.com (ppp60.analg-t3.st-cath.niagara.net [209.5.212.158]) by alpha.vaxxine.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA27532 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:49:14 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36997036.C124E23A@vaxxine.com> Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 21:29:58 -0600 From: Sheridan Alder X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: "Art of Manipulating Fabric" References: <9452-3697F7E7-697@mailtod-141.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sheridan Alder Hello everyone: I was browsing in a bookstore yesterday, and came across the following "techniques-type" title which list members might find useful: Wolf, Colette. Art of Manipulating Fabric. Iola, Wisconsin: Krause Publishing. (Sorry, forgot to jot down the date of publication!) ISBN: 0-8019-8496-3 Krause Publishing 700 E. State St. Iola, WI (715) 445-2214 $ 38.95 Canadian. I didn't have time to study it (idiot girl forgot to turn off her headlights while grocery shopping and was putting in time until spouse arrived, jumper cables in hand, to rescue her in middle of yet ANOTHER snowstore!) but it appeared to be chock-a-block with information to achieve those funky little details original period garments boast. For example, the author gave instructions on how to do serpentine ruchings similar to those on 18th century gowns, not to mention more gathers, ruches, puckerings and pleatings than you could shake a stick at. It appeared to be directed to an audience of crafty-types or home decorators, rather than costumers (but as I said before, I whipped through, and scampered off back to the dead car, before I was throttled with the afore-mentioned jumper cables) but I was impressed with the impressive range and variety of effects the author covered. Dang, I've gone and talked myself into going back and buying it. Sheridan Alder _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 10 23:17:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA19418 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 23:17:13 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA10776; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 21:27:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA17766 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 21:24:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from sd.znet.com (sd.znet.com [207.167.64.5]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA17755 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 21:24:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.167.66.19] (sdts10-19.znet.net [207.167.66.19]) by sd.znet.com (8.9.2/8.9.2/jjb-sd) with ESMTP id UAA02111 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 20:24:33 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 20:24:33 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <001401be3d07$db9b3540$5e63b5cf@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Julie Adams Subject: Re: H-COST: Wax and Fraying Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Julie Adams While one can use a variety of things to prevent fraying, the thickness and body of the fabric is so important to the final look. Always do a test check before counting on it to look right. The problem with using wax to prevent fraying is that most modern velvets have too thin a base fabric and it does not usually have the body to support the slashes. Julie Adams _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 00:28:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA20280 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 00:28:50 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA15942; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:39:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA24201 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:35:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA24178 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:35:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.235] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 0zza0x-0006AP-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 21:35:47 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990110210904.00ba2240@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 21:11:43 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: 15" waists - any surviving garments? In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.19990107165438.00b8c5e0@pop.slip.net> <3694C347.F46BBBE5@nash.tds.net> <36925029.D4CBB17B@best.com> <4.1.19990106232920.00b96100@pop.slip.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows It's relatively easy to imagine you corseted down to 18", at least long enough to win a bet. It's the 15" thing I am still having trouble with. And yes, I have seen the retouched photos too. The only one I believe not to be retouched are the ones of Polaire, which you can see in a book called The Unfashionable Human Body. >I'm 5 foot 1 inch tall. From about age 11 until i got pregnant at age 30, i >weighed 97 pounds and had no eating disorders-i loved ice cream and >cheeses, besides healthful vegetables. My natural measurements were >36-22-36 inches, with a 32 inch back and narrow shoulders. I fit into a >number of vintage garments from around either side of the turn of the >century (19th to 20th, that is) without corseting. Fitting into modern >clothes, however, wasn't always easy, since they're designed for less of a >difference between bust and waist or waist and hips (while bust and hips >are usually standardized as being pretty close to the same measurement). I >was thin, though, and while i might have been able to lace myself down a >few inches (i'd guess 4, since i don't mind very tight lacing), i don't >think i could have tight-laced myself down a full 7 inches. > >However, if one looks carefully at late-19th century photos of women with >amazingly tiny waists, one can see that many photos have been retouched. >They could paint on the pictures even then, often hand-coloring them, and >they could touch-up photo images, as well. Thus often the claims of these >women (usually, uh, "artistes") to astonishingly tiny waists were more >"bragging" than real. > >Lilinah > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 00:28:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA20284 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 00:28:55 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA15959; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:39:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA24207 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:36:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA24194 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:35:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.235] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 0zza11-0006AP-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 21:35:51 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990110211752.00ba7bd0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 21:30:39 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: help with men's and women's German Ren In-Reply-To: <19990111010117.22815.rocketmail@web306.yahoomail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >I just wanted to note that I read once that it was common to treat the >line to be slashed with wax, then cut down the middle, reducing fraying. I refer to fraying as letting threads loose parallel to the cut edge. If you cut on the bias, the ends frizz a little but don't really fray. There's a Bronzino portrait in the Metropolitan Museum which occours in several costume books. It's of a guy wearing a slashed black doublet-thing with big sleeves. He has one hand on his hip and he looks straight out of the picture at you. When I saw that in person I got as close as I could talk the security guard into letting me get, and (bless him) Bronzino had painted the frizzed edges of the slashes! I took a couple of close-up pictures of the painting right under the subject's arm where this shows best as the doublet wraps around his ribs. Same frizzing on the sleeves. It really sticks out - maybe an eighth of an inch in a life-sized painting. I seem to recall Janet Arnold talking about a 'searing candle' used to deal with cut edges of velvet by waxing. This was along the cut edges of the velvet, not where it was slashed (no slashing on the garment). Very much like serging velvet today to get it to behave itself. It must have been done after the garment pieces were cut because there were loose bits of pile stuck in the wax. This is on one of the pairs of pluderhosen of the Sture family, either in the photo section or in the pattern section, I don't remember which. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 00:30:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA20294 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 00:30:38 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA15982; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:39:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA24208 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:36:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA24186 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:35:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.235] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 0zza0y-0006AP-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 21:35:49 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990110211359.009efee0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 21:16:42 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: 15" waists - any surviving garments? In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.19990107165438.00b8c5e0@pop.slip.net> <3694C347.F46BBBE5@nash.tds.net> <36925029.D4CBB17B@best.com> <4.1.19990106232920.00b96100@pop.slip.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows I wrote both of the >>> paragraphs below. And it's easy to believe 'waist-binding'. European foot binding is still practiced if you are female - compare a two-year-old child's foot with a "normal" pointey-toed woman's shoe to see what I mean. >>>I own an 1898 bodice which is so small that the smaller of my daughters >>>couldn't wear it after she was about 5 or 6 (I tried it on her once about >>>then). The waist is about 22" measured by the waist band, hook to eye. >>>And I have looked at the waist measurements of the garments in Nancy >>>Bradfield's Costume In Detail, which go back to the 1700's. >>> >>>I believe 22"-teensy, I just don't believe 15"-teensy. If this were >>>anything like common I would expect to encounter more teensy-waist antique >>>garments in collections. I have seen none. Has anyone else on this list? >>>(real question here, not rhetorical - I really want to know) > I'm not sure whether it was Carolyn or Lilinah who wrote the I >don't believe paragraph above. My maternal grandmother grew up just after >that time. Like the Chinese binding of feet, the ladies in the South at >least were laced into their corsets so tightly sometimes that their ribs >started to misplace and overlap. My grandmother's aunt tried to do it to >her when my grandmother was a young woman, and my grandmother, being in >pain and being rather strongwilled, cut the ties that bound her in and >refused to wear the device again. But many women, then as now, went with >the fashionable, not what would have been healthy/comforbable. Carol >Cannon, repeating to you what my maternal grandmother told me when I was >myself a child > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 00:30:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA20298 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 00:30:42 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA15986; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:39:19 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA24209 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:36:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA24202 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:35:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.235] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 0zza12-0006AP-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 21:35:53 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990110213109.00b9b140@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 21:34:38 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Nothing wrong with your logic, but this does not prove that only full-grown women used the patterns. A couple of replies to my original post have referred to 15-year-olds with small waists I bet they didn't keep past 18. I am still waiting for actual measurements from someone. This question keeps coming up, and I would dearly love having hard evidence, if only to win bets with. >My copy of "Metropolitan Fashions of the 1880s: From the 1885 Butterick >Catalog" shows the various patterns and lists the waist sizes available. For >example, there is a pattern for No. 9712, the Ladies' Walking Skirt, ". . . in >9 sizes for ladies from 20 to 36 inches waist measure." All the patterns that >list waist measurements generally show the same range. (For comparison, my >new Laughing Moon 1909-1913 Day and Evening Dress pattern is available for >waists 21 to 40 inches.) This suggests that the average woman who might buy >patterns from Butterick in 1885 had a waist between 20 and 36 inches. I am >far from an expert in any historical period at all, but this looks like good >evidence that waists are about the same now as then. Does my logic need >help? Is the Butterick reprint a poor source of information? Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 03:15:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA26838 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 03:14:59 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id BAA25493; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 01:25:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id BAA03170 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 01:22:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from titanium.sge.net (titanium.sge.net [152.91.9.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id BAA03163 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 01:22:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by titanium.sge.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA18304 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 19:21:45 +1100 (EST) Received: from kryptonite.sge.net(10.1.2.11) by titanium.sge.net via smap (3.2) id xma018276; Mon, 11 Jan 99 19:21:27 +1100 Received: from amber. (ice-int2.sge.net [10.1.2.254]) by kryptonite.sge.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA11525 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 19:21:26 +1100 (EST) Message-Id: <199901110821.TAA11525@kryptonite.sge.net> From: WICKHAM Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: H-COST: Skeletons and stays Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 19:18:26 +1100 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: WICKHAM Raymond Two observations about the age concept > A couple of replies to my original post have > referred to 15-year-olds with small waists I bet they didn't keep past > 18. > The marriageable ie age when women would dress to impress was as low as twelve But also the women were in these garments during their formative growing years Just an illustration of the possibilities are the Javaese women with the extended necks (by rings) Sears mentions the change from corsetry to body braces with full body structure and posture control Ray _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 03:30:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA26892 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 03:30:35 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id BAA25976; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 01:41:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id BAA03871 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 01:37:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.pacifier.com (root@smtp.pacifier.com [199.2.117.96]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id BAA03859 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 01:37:48 -0700 (MST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: from grendal2 (ip238.van19.pacifier.com [216.65.141.238]) by smtp.pacifier.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id AAA05267 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 00:37:46 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901110837.AAA05267@smtp.pacifier.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 00:38:25 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: Wax and Fraying Priority: normal In-reply-to: <001401be3d07$db9b3540$5e63b5cf@default> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > Janet Arnold talks about treating velvet edges on seams with wax to stop > fraying. She mentions that the turned over edges on one extant garment still > had waxy feeling stuff on them, blackened by the cut velvet pile. I had the > initial impression that wax was applied after cutting, but it makes sense > that one would apply it first. She also mentioned finding gum arabic at the edges in a lecture I went to. > I have read somewhere that wardrobe accounts mention a special kind of wax > used for this express purpose. Does anyone know its composition? What would > be considered a mundane substitute? I would think that they would have used bees wax, unless you are talking about 19th century when paraffin wax became available. The bees wax might be mixed with something (perhaps the gumarabic that J.A. mentioned or some other sort of resin.) An alternative might be to use fray check (try it on a sample first) or one of the ones which start out looking like white glue. Put it only on the back side, not the pile, and let it soak in, not just on the very surface. I've found this helpful when I don't want to have fraying in the slashing. Sometimes you want some fraying so that it shows more. I still have a late 16th Spanish coat which I remember spending a long period of time scraping at the slashing so that they would be visible. I've had it now for many years and it still looks like it did when we made it. It's also successfully been to my drycleaners at least 4 times. (The thing is so heavy that the first time I sent it they had to use 3 hangers taped together to hold it. Now I send it to the dry cleaners with the hanger with it so they don't have to go through that again.) > 16th century period finishing techniques. I find it hard to tell from my > sources exactly how garments were finished. I'll be discussing this as well > with excellent costumers in my area; in the meantime, are there any good > texts that lay this out? Stitching and finishing techniques seem to have > different names in different books and different countries; I want to get > things straight. Janet Arnold (Patterns of Fashion: 1560-1620) is probably the best source I know for that period's finishing techniques. The best thing is that it shows photographs of the seams so that you can see the stitching. No translation needed! For an earlier treatment of seams/finishing (which I find doesn't look that different from the Arnold stuff but is specifically discussed and diagrammed, unlike in the Arnold book) is the Museum of London's Finds from Medieval London series: Clothing and Textiles 1150-1450 (or something close to that.) Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 04:05:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA27011 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 04:05:57 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id CAA28282; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 02:16:54 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id CAA05295 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 02:13:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.38]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id CAA05286 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 02:13:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from LOCALNAME ([12.66.2.10]) by mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.05 118 121 101) with SMTP id <19990111091259.ESSF17623@LOCALNAME> for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:12:59 +0000 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Connie Carroll" Organization: Home For Deranged Bunnies To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 04:11:11 +0000 Subject: Re: H-COST: "Art of Manipulating Fabric" Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.30) Message-Id: <19990111091259.ESSF17623@LOCALNAME> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Connie Carroll" I vought my copy at Pennsic as did my freidn. It's a great book. Kassandra NickKraken > > -Poster: Sheridan Alder > > Hello everyone: > > I was browsing in a bookstore yesterday, and came across the > following "techniques-type" title which list members might find > useful: > > Wolf, Colette. Art of Manipulating Fabric. Iola, Wisconsin: Krause > Publishing. > (Sorry, forgot to jot down the date of publication!) ISBN: > 0-8019-8496-3 > > Krause Publishing > 700 E. State St. > Iola, WI > (715) 445-2214 > $ 38.95 Canadian. > > I didn't have time to study it (idiot girl forgot to turn off her > headlights while grocery shopping and was putting in time until > spouse arrived, jumper cables in hand, to rescue her in middle of > yet ANOTHER snowstore!) but it appeared to be chock-a-block with > information to achieve those funky little details original period > garments boast. For example, the author gave instructions on how to > do serpentine ruchings similar to those on 18th century gowns, not > to mention more gathers, ruches, puckerings and pleatings than you > could shake a stick at. > > It appeared to be directed to an audience of crafty-types or home > decorators, rather than costumers (but as I said before, I whipped > through, and scampered off back to the dead car, before I was > throttled with the afore-mentioned jumper cables) but I was > impressed with the impressive range and variety of effects the > author covered. > > Dang, I've gone and talked myself into going back and buying it. > > Sheridan Alder > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with > the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME JUST CALL ME MISTRESS BUNNY _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 04:37:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA27116 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 04:37:57 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id CAA29243; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 02:47:21 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id CAA06502 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 02:44:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id CAA06496 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 02:43:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.1-12 #29137) id <01J6ERVVIR0G001UWU@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:45:55 GMT Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.1-12 #29137) with ESMTP id <01J6ERVV00NM001CKP@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:45:53 +0000 (GMT) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.43); Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:43:55 +0000 (GMT0BST) Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.43); Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:43:42 +0000 (GMT0BST) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:43:35 +0000 (GMT) From: Teddy Subject: H-COST: Paint Colours v. Dye Colours (was field-trip report...) In-reply-to: <199901091215.FAA12728@indra.com> To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: <325504F2A5E@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Teddy > - -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com > > Responding as a stuffy purist... > > several gowns in the above exhibit of the same or nearly the same color > > but I don't know if this is a paint-only color or if there would have > > been a dye color like this in the mid-15th century. Any ideas? > > > I've never been a big fan of this "paint only" idea. That's usually > someone's way of excusing their own lack of care. Silk can take > pretty much any color, in an astonishing range of shades. And if it > were a portrait of ME, I'd expect the man to paint it as I wore it, > dammit! I like that gown! > > But in any case, as you describe it, I see no reason why this should > be thought of as a "made up " color. Still, as I say, I'm not > convinced that any color in a painting was impossble to a dyer, or > that any patron would want it to be. What she said. I'm sure *this* subject has come up on h-costume before too, but... I agree with MaggiRos on this one. A lot of the old arguements that the colour in a painting wouldn't indicate the colour of the actual garment doesn't really hold much water (especially in portraiture). To be fair, it is *possible* that the paint may have faded or changed over time. Perfectly reasonable, but to take an example of one of the arguements I've heard again and again... "Pink isn't a period colour, the pink of that garment was probably a *red* when it was painted..." Strangely enough, the people who trot out this one (and similar comments), don't have much of an answer when I reply, "Really? The fading's very *even* and why haven't the reds worn by other people in that painting faded to pink as well?" The idea does have *some* merit, but (Usual Disclaimer: In *my* opinion) it's not as strong and argument as is often claimed. Probably, the best thing to do if you realy *are* uncertain, is to check out as many other paintings of the period for similar shades/colours, thay can't *all* have faded in the same way. Personally, I tend to believe the colour as seen unless there is some reason *not* to (like parts of the painting obviously having faded, or other bits of the figure(s), like skin tome etc, having a faded/washed out look that might indicate a substantial degree of fading). Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of air and darkness, apparently!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 05:53:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA27370 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 05:53:57 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id EAA01633; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 04:05:00 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id EAA06145 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 04:01:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from bigpapa.nothinbut.net (root@bigpapa.nothinbut.net [207.44.32.11]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id EAA06033 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 04:01:24 -0700 (MST) From: pame@nothinbut.net Received: from bigpapa.nothinbut.net (mtl-ct1-01.nothinbut.net [207.44.46.11]) by bigpapa.nothinbut.net (8.8.8/8.8.8/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id GAA24064 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 06:01:22 -0500 Message-Id: <199901111101.GAA24064@bigpapa.nothinbut.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 05:59:04 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays Priority: normal In-reply-to: <4.1.19990109223726.00bb85e0@pop.slip.net> References: <199901081706.MAA14261@bigpapa.nothinbut.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: pame@nothinbut.net > -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > > Fascinating. And you have measured her at this small corseted size? I'm > impressed. > > >Our Maggie is 15 years old. She is 6 ft. tall. She also weighs about > >119 on a good day. She is not anorexic-she eats like mad but she just > >came like that (built like her dad, certainly not moi!) She can > >easily corset down to 15 or 16 inches. Yes-she has been measured recently. She is used to being in garb as she has been active in the SCA since birth (actually, she wasn't that active in it at birth-she just kinda lay there). Now, she is fascninated with corseting as a fashion thing as well. I do not approve of tight corseting. Neither is she permitted to dress ala Madonna but we did give it a shot and she can get to 15 1/2 and still breath and still function. Hope this helps to dispels your disbelief. By the way, when she can find things she is a size three in skirts, dresses etc and still borrows her eight year old sister's shirts when she can get away with it. p. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 08:30:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA27949 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 08:30:51 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id GAA07425; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 06:41:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id GAA13722 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 06:38:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from sand.global.net.uk (sand.global.net.uk [194.126.82.9]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id GAA13705 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 06:37:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from p7ds11a06.client.global.net.uk ([195.147.219.126] helo=LHIGGINS.ORGELLA.COM) by sand.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 0zzhXY-0007sG-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 13:37:56 +0000 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19990111120500.015d35b0@mail.globalnet.co.uk> X-Sender: duchess@mail.globalnet.co.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 13:37:45 +0000 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Elizabeth Higgins Subject: Re: H-COST: 15" waists - any surviving garments? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Elizabeth Higgins At 21:11 10/01/99 -0800, you wrote: > >-Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > >It's relatively easy to imagine you corseted down to 18", at least long >enough to win a bet. It's the 15" thing I am still having trouble with. >And yes, I have seen the retouched photos too. The only one I believe not >to be retouched are the ones of Polaire, which you can see in a book called >The Unfashionable Human Body. Take a look in The Guinness Book of Records. Ethel Grainger had a 15 inch waist until she died in the 50's (I think) and there is also Britta Fleming in Germany (who I met last year) and a very few others who have 15 inch waists. Such a things has, and still exists so why not also durung the 19th century as well? Elizabeth. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 09:46:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA28294 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:46:50 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA13228; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 07:57:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA20066 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 07:53:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtpgate.uvm.edu (smtpgate.uvm.edu [132.198.101.121]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA20055 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 07:53:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from 132.198.103.242 (132.198.103.242) by smtpgate.uvm.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.4F1D9130@smtpgate.uvm.edu>; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 9:53:58 -0800 Message-ID: <369A109B.4D7@uvm.edu> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:54:25 -0500 From: Hope Greenberg X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Color associations References: <199901100232.VAA10362@jefferson.patriot.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Hope Greenberg aquazoo@patriot.net wrote: > Hope's point make's sense as the green dress images may have been > painted at a time when Magdalen was thought to be a prostitute. Her > distinguishing characteristic, however, is her long hair. Is the > interesting headgear arrangement of a great quantity of hair? I didn't really want to imply that the Magdalen/green dress/prostitute connection was valid. And I still wonder about the history of the idea that puts the lady in Greensleeves in the role of prostitute, since there appears, to me at least, to be no internal evidence in the song to suggest that. Now I'm beginning to wonder how far back the idea of Lazarus' sister Mary, the foot-annointing Magdalen, the "stoning" harlot, and any other assorted non-Virgin Mary's all being the same person actually goes. In any event, if you take a look at 15th century northern paintings, particularly of the descent from the cross or the pieta, the composition is often Mary in blue flowing gown (or somtimes red) and Mary Magdalen often in a fitted (modern?) gown, often with pinned on sleeves, and often in a more complicated, or sometimes "foreign-looking" headdress and holding that little pot. Sometimes she wears green, but that might be color balancing in the painting more than anything else. But more often the identifying features are the ones mentioned. (Hmmm...time to go back though the images and do a more consistent survey.) Oh yes, and my favorite "weird hat" Magdalen has to be Rogier van der Weyden's, in the right wing of the Brach family triptych, available at http://sunserv.kfki.hu/arthp/html/w/weyden/altar/index.html She looks like she's taken vinyl floor base cove and wrapped it around her head. (That's not a suggestion for how to construct this particular headdress! :-) ) By the way, another costume caveat I've heard is "don't wear yellow, especially yellow sleeves, because that's a prostitutes color." Where does that one come from? - Hope -------------- hope.greenberg@uvm.edu, U of Vermont, http://www.uvm.edu/~hag _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 09:53:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA28320 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:53:35 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA13908; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 08:04:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA20994 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 08:01:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from epicurus.miningco.com (epicurus.miningco.com [207.122.100.23]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id IAA20979 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 08:01:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from s244135.MICROWEB.net [208.201.244.135] (HELO lisa) by epicurus.miningco.com (AltaVista Mail V2.0/2.0 BL23 listener) id 0000_00fc_369a_216e_9b7b; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 11:06:06 -0500 Message-Id: <4.1.19990111065824.0095c220@mail.tmsonline.com> X-Sender: reenactment@mail.miningco.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 07:00:07 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lisa Scovel Subject: H-COST: Fwd: The 13th century Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lisa Scovel Oh, generous listers.... Can any of you recommend good sites for the 13th century French this woman is looking for? >Hi, I am trying to find out information about the 13th century. I am >especially trying to find information about costume for a 13th century >French woman. I can easily find sites for earlier and later periods but >nothing about the century I am interested in. Pictures and patterns for >13th century garb would be extremely helpful. Can you point me in the >right direction? > >Thanks >Michelle Newton _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 10:15:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA28404 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 10:15:30 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA16638; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 08:26:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA24039 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 08:22:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f262.hotmail.com [207.82.251.153]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id IAA24033 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 08:22:32 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 13238 invoked by uid 0); 11 Jan 1999 15:22:01 -0000 Message-ID: <19990111152201.13237.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 208.197.246.195 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 07:22:00 PST X-Originating-IP: [208.197.246.195] From: "Susannah Eanes" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: ACW Gloves for Daywear Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 07:22:00 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Susannah Eanes" Does ANYONE have a good idea or source for ACW-era reproduction gloves? I would love a nice pair of plain, dove-grey ones for day wear. I am not afraid to undertake the making of these gloves if I could find a good pattern, preferable from an original pair. Help, help! Thanks, Susannah ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 10:20:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA28423 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 10:20:25 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA17291; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 08:30:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA24649 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 08:26:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.30]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA24644 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 08:26:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.20.26 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 07:25:57 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: H-COST: RE: !6th Century finishing techniques Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 23:11:46 -0500 Message-ID: <000001be3d77$488c2820$1a14ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <001401be3d07$db9b3540$5e63b5cf@default> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" The Museum of Fine Arts in Boston has a man's leather doublet and breeches from late 1500's early 1600's France in their collection. It's a day's drive from you, but you have the option of having a look at it personally by appointment. You might also check the excellent Canadian museums in your area as well as the Cleveland Art Museum (which has an excellent textile collection, tho I don't know about their costumes) to determine if they have similar garments for you to examine. With the new MAX Kodak 800 film, or even lower ASA, it should be possible to get usable snapshots without flash to study back in the costume shop. Handheld camera with the right ASA film should be fine---or sketch everything! Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of David Stamper & Eve Harris Sent: Sunday, January 10, 1999 9:12 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Wax and Fraying -Poster: "David Stamper & Eve Harris" Margretta de Vries said: >I just wanted to note that I read once that it was common to treat the >line to be slashed with wax, then cut down the middle, reducing fraying. Janet Arnold talks about treating velvet edges on seams with wax to stop fraying. She mentions that the turned over edges on one extant garment still had waxy feeling stuff on them, blackened by the cut velvet pile. I had the initial impression that wax was applied after cutting, but it makes sense that one would apply it first. I have read somewhere that wardrobe accounts mention a special kind of wax used for this express purpose. Does anyone know its composition? What would be considered a mundane substitute? (New question) Susan Carrol-Clark asked a while ago about sourcing silk and linen thread (we are both Toronto/Ontario area), but I don't remember a response to her query. The linen thread I do know is available is a fairly coarse grade. Is there a good on-line source for notions of this nature? I am particularly interested because I have embarked on an A&S challenge (THE leather jerkin from Janet Arnold + relevant accessories) and I really want to do a good job on every detail. In fact, where can I source iron needles/authentic-style awls etc.? (New question again, I'll stop soon) 16th century period finishing techniques. I find it hard to tell from my sources exactly how garments were finished. I'll be discussing this as well with excellent costumers in my area; in the meantime, are there any good texts that lay this out? Stitching and finishing techniques seem to have different names in different books and different countries; I want to get things straight. Thank you! Eve Harris ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 11:19:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA28634 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 11:19:44 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA24198; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:30:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA04842 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:27:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.pacifier.com (root@smtp.pacifier.com [199.2.117.96]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA04758 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:26:53 -0700 (MST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: from grendal2 (ip137.van17.pacifier.com [216.65.137.137]) by smtp.pacifier.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA29171 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 08:26:47 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901111626.IAA29171@smtp.pacifier.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 08:27:23 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: Color associations Priority: normal In-reply-to: <369A109B.4D7@uvm.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > By the way, another costume caveat I've heard is "don't wear yellow, > especially yellow sleeves, because that's a prostitutes color." Where > does that one come from? Sumptuary laws in some areas of Europe. They were definitely not across the board but very specific to the area where it was found. In other places it was a different sign like a specific kind of cloak or a specific kind of headgear or a badge which had to be worn in a visible manner. If they were rich enough they could buy dispensations not to have to wear the identifying color/object. These laws are often found side by side with laws about special thing which were required to be worn by Jews. Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 11:27:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA28870 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 11:27:39 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA24810; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:38:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA06382 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:34:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.tds.net (mail.tds.net [204.246.1.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA06326 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:34:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from nash.tds.net (latnusr0-a04.nash.tds.net [207.0.84.132]) by mail.tds.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA20676 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 10:34:32 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <369A2816.6314FFD5@nash.tds.net> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 10:34:30 -0600 From: Kent & Kat Organization: Oak, Ash, and Thorn X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Color associations References: <199901111626.IAA29171@smtp.pacifier.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kent & Kat Has anyone else heard of red striped stockings being associated with prostitutes? Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 12:44:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA29120 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 12:44:52 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA03826; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 10:55:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA20257 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 10:51:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from bigred.unl.edu (00217146@bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA20246 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 10:51:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (00217146@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA14342 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 11:52:03 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 11:52:02 -0600 (CST) From: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays In-Reply-To: <199901111101.GAA24064@bigpapa.nothinbut.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> For the record: How old is she now? > Yes-she has been measured recently. She is used to being in garb as > she has been active in the SCA since birth (actually, she wasn't that > active in it at birth-she just kinda lay there). Now, she is > fascninated with corseting as a fashion thing as well. I do not > approve of tight corseting. Neither is she permitted to dress ala > Madonna but we did give it a shot and she can get to 15 1/2 and still > breath and still function. Hope this helps to dispels your disbelief. > By the way, when she can find things she is a size three in skirts, > dresses etc and still borrows her eight year old sister's shirts when > she can get away with it. > p. > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 12:46:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA29130 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 12:46:18 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA03074; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 10:49:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA19133 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 10:45:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtpgate.uvm.edu (smtpgate.uvm.edu [132.198.101.121]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA19120 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 10:45:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from uvm.edu (132.198.103.233) by smtpgate.uvm.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.429490E0@smtpgate.uvm.edu>; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 12:45:25 -0800 Message-ID: <369A3881.D6FB51DA@uvm.edu> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 12:44:33 -0500 From: Hope Greenberg X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Color associations References: <199901111626.IAA29171@smtp.pacifier.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Hope Greenberg kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > By the way, another costume caveat I've heard is "don't wear yellow, > > especially yellow sleeves, because that's a prostitutes color." Where > > does that one come from? > > Sumptuary laws in some areas of Europe. Ah yes! I should have been more specific. What I should have asked was: 1) has anyone come across proscriptions on wearing the color yellow, or associations of that color with any particular class or group, in any sumptuary laws between, let's say 1100 and 1600 for western europe? Anybody have a resource for Italian early-16th cent. sumptuary laws? 2) has anyone heard of the association of the color yellow with prostitutes in any modern-day re-enactment/re-creation groups and if so, any details about where the idea comes from? That is, is this another one of those costume myths? I especially want to know if I need to tear those big yellow sleeves off my early 16thc. Italian ren. Thanks! - Hope ------------- hope.greenberg@uvm.edu, U of Vermont, http://www.uvm.edu/~hag _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 14:17:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA29575 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 14:17:55 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA16816; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 12:28:49 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA01908 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 11:46:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from m23.boston.juno.com (m23.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.188]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA01821 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 11:45:49 -0700 (MST) From: seamstrix@juno.com Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m23.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id DYPZCLQU; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 13:45:36 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 12:33:09 -0600 Subject: Re: H-COST: Color associations Message-ID: <19990111.123347.25342.31.seamstrix@juno.com> References: <199901111626.IAA29171@smtp.pacifier.com> <369A3881.D6FB51DA@uvm.edu> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,6-10 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: seamstrix@juno.com According to "London-The Synfulle Citie" by E.J Burford: In 1352 the mayor, Adam Francis, procured an Act of Parliment, again seeking control over City prostitution and repeating the ancient proscription,'....that no known Whore shoulde be so bold as to wear any Hood or Attire on her head except ray(striped red cloth of diverse colors)....' this proved just as ineffective as all previous injunctions. Karen _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 14:18:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA29582 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 14:18:03 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA16888; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 12:29:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA02381 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 11:47:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from artemis.chass.utoronto.ca (artemis.chass.utoronto.ca [128.100.160.6]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA02156 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 11:46:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from dsc (ppp24.chass.utoronto.ca [128.100.160.144]) by artemis.chass.utoronto.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA27089 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 13:47:53 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001a01be3d93$2485fc00$90a06480@dsc> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: Subject: H-COST: Re: Colours Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 13:49:28 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Greetings! I think the thing to keep in mind when examining the issue about whether such and so colour was really worn is to use both kinds of evidence--e.g. paintings and knowledge about dye technology--together. For instance, using the pink example--if we have examples of people wearing it and we also know that it's possible to get pinks with the dye technology of the period, we might be able to safely conclude that such pink clothing might have actually existed. From there, we can keep adding in new evidence (e.g. written accounts, archaeological records) to broaden the picture. However, if it's simply impossible (or extremely difficult) to get a certain colour using the technology of the period, we can probably safely conclude that we're running into a case of dyes and pigments being different. This can get very subtle--for instance, while the depiction of a red dress in a painting (particularly an earlier one) might indicate that red dresses were worn, it does not mean that the shade of red was exactly the same as in the painting. Susan Carroll-Clark _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 14:22:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA29599 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 14:22:11 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA17339; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 12:33:24 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA09821 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 12:29:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from relay02.netaddress.usa.net (relay02.netaddress.usa.net [204.68.24.182]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id MAA09814 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 12:29:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 2641 invoked from network); 11 Jan 1999 19:29:37 -0000 Received: from www0h.netaddress.usa.net (204.68.24.37) by outbound.netaddress.usa.net with SMTP; 11 Jan 1999 19:29:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 27657 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Jan 1999 19:03:10 -0000 Message-ID: <19990111190310.27656.qmail@www0h.netaddress.usa.net> Received: from 209.122.3.3 by www.netaddress.com via web-mailer(3.1) on Mon Jan 11 19:03:10 GMT 1999 Date: 11 Jan 99 12:03:10 MST From: Orlaith To: Subject: H-COST: RE: 15" waists Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Orlaith I have a 15 year old daughter that I just made an Elizabethan corset for, and >her un-corseted bust and waist measurements are 34" and 21", respectively, and >no, she definately does NOT have any kind of eating disorder...... > > > > >I don't think I was ever that tiny after about the age of 8, so she must be a >throwback to an earlier generation of willowy women..... > Okay, someone please change the subject before I get REALLY depressed. I was just trying to figure out what was making my purse so heavy and ran across a tape measure. Remembering this thread, I thought "I wonder what 15 inches really looks like...Oh that's not very big...I wonder....what MY NECK IS 15 INCHES!!!!" Beth Orlaith of Storvik ____________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 14:25:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA29619 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 14:25:49 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA17718; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 12:36:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA10352 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 12:33:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.cho.org (mail.cho.org [209.77.137.36]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id MAA10336 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 12:33:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35]) by mail.cho.org; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 11:33:07 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: ldownward@198.211.240.120 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <369A2816.6314FFD5@nash.tds.net> References: <199901111626.IAA29171@smtp.pacifier.com> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 11:37:26 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lynn Downward Subject: Re: H-COST: Color associations Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lynn Downward >-Poster: Kent & Kat > >Has anyone else heard of red striped stockings being >associated with prostitutes? > >Kat No, only with the Wicked Witch of the West. LynnD _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 15:05:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA29826 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 15:05:07 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA22714; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 13:15:40 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA17132 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 13:12:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from isomedia.com (root@watson.isomedia.com [207.149.221.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA17103 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 13:11:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from wingate (pm413.isomedia.com [207.149.222.172]) by isomedia.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA24241 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 12:33:50 -0800 From: "Wylie A. & Gail D. Smith" To: Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?RE:_H-COST:_Hello=2C_I=B4m_new?= Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 12:04:04 -0800 Message-ID: <000901be3d9d$8a007c40$acde95cf@wingate> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <36950958.5071F7FF@ndh.net> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Wylie A. & Gail D. Smith" Welcome to the group, Diana. You will learn a lot, but it's pretty chatty here, so be prepared! ~Gail Seattle, WA > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Andrea Clef > Sent: Thursday, January 07, 1999 11:22 AM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: H-COST: Hello, I´m new > > > > -Poster: Andrea Clef > > Hello costume friends! > > With this I just want to introduce myself to you as I`m new on the list. > > I`m not a costume artist myself ( at least I haven`t tried yet...) but I > `m very > interested in the topic of costume history. > > My name`s Diana, I`m 21 years old and live in Cologne, Germany. > I love reenactment and I`m active in medieval and baroque groups here in > Europe. > But I`m also interested in other decades, like the 19th and early 20th > century. > > If you have special questions concerning European things, feel free to > ask, I`ve got > some good literature and could look for things. > > Your talk is in every case very interesting! > > Many greetings, > Diana > > P.S.: Somebody else living in Europe here? > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 15:07:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA29840 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 15:07:37 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA21976; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 13:08:19 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA15797 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 13:04:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from public.ndh.com (public.ndh.net [194.97.97.21]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA15786 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 13:04:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from Andrea (port1101.koeln.ndh.net [195.227.37.101]) by public.ndh.com (8.8.7/8.8.0) with ESMTP id UAA00966 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 20:44:18 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <36950958.5071F7FF@ndh.net> Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 20:22:01 +0100 From: Andrea Clef X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [de] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Hello, I´m new X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Andrea Clef Hello costume friends! With this I just want to introduce myself to you as I`m new on the list. I`m not a costume artist myself ( at least I haven`t tried yet...) but I `m very interested in the topic of costume history. My name`s Diana, I`m 21 years old and live in Cologne, Germany. I love reenactment and I`m active in medieval and baroque groups here in Europe. But I`m also interested in other decades, like the 19th and early 20th century. If you have special questions concerning European things, feel free to ask, I`ve got some good literature and could look for things. Your talk is in every case very interesting! Many greetings, Diana P.S.: Somebody else living in Europe here? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 15:23:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA29901 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 15:23:05 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA25403; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 13:34:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA20670 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 13:30:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from schultz.io.com (ches@schultz.io.com [199.170.88.6]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA20637 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 13:30:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (ches@localhost) by schultz.io.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA02504 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 14:30:14 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: schultz.io.com: ches owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 14:30:14 -0600 (CST) From: ches To: Multiple recipients of list H-COSTUME Subject: H-COST: Spanish costumes Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: ches Cna anyone help them out or send me info to point them in the right direction? Sincerely, Ches aka Chiara Francesca Steward of Coronation XL -----Original Message----- From: Phil and Karan Foster < phil@globeco.net > To: ches@io.com < ches@io.com > Date: Sunday, January 10, 1999 10:42 AM Subject: Clothing I am interested in the clothing of Scotland around the 1350s. Can you maybe give me a direction to look. Book titles would be helpful. Thank you and have a good week. Phil (ska Angus Forrest) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 16:00:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA30028 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 16:00:43 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA00504; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 14:11:44 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA23907 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 13:44:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA23720; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 13:43:57 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 13:43:57 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199901112043.NAA23720@indra.com> From: "Sue W" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Stays, the body - backboards Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Sue W" Cornelia referred to backboards and steel collars. I have read that backboards were in general domestic use in the 18 and early 19C . See chapter 1 of W Thackery "Vanity Fair". There are examples in UK museums - Cambridge and Birmingham. These devices were either held across the back by the handles, or were strapped on. The late 19C doctor H Bigg said they could cause unnecessary suffering, so they must have been unpleasant to wear. Their continued use must be have been seen as effective, I suppose you learn always to be bolt upright (but would not your stays do that ?) I was fascinated that Cornelia's reference to dancing manuals includes an exercise for lengthening the collar bones - thereby expanding the chest ! Can you really do that, or was it wishful thinking? Sue This E-mail brought to you by Excite's free E-mail service. Get your own E-mail address at http://www.excite.co.uk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 16:58:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA30276 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 16:58:28 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA08791; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 15:09:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA09792 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 15:05:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from dub-img-2.compuserve.com (dub-img-2.compuserve.com [149.174.206.132]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA09725 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 15:05:24 -0700 (MST) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by dub-img-2.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.17) id RAA06016 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:04:53 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:04:24 -0500 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: 13th Century To: "INTERNET:h-costume-digest@indra.com" Message-ID: <199901111704_MC2-6640-5DD7@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id QAA30276 Status: O -Poster: Melanie Wilson Look at Circa 1265 sites http://homepages.strath.ac.uk/~cjis28/Medieval/index.html and http://www.shef.ac.uk/misc/personal/cs1jwh/c1265/index.html I'm a member of c1265 too, which is 13th C English/Welsh, if she wants to contact me further I have some bits and pieces, mainly paper based I could send Mel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 17:34:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA30456 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:34:49 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA29386; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 14:04:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA25070 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 13:49:58 -0700 (MST) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA25042; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 13:49:53 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 13:49:53 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199901112049.NAA25042@indra.com> From: Heather Law To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: SCA Garb list Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Heather Law To get subscribed to the SCA garb list, send your request to Gwenllyan@aol.com She will subscribe you as soon as they get the server thing straightened out, or find another one. In service, Heather/Sister Ed _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 17:48:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA30531 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:48:10 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA29565; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 14:05:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA24673 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 13:47:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.tds.net (mail.tds.net [204.246.1.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA24650 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 13:47:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from nash.tds.net (latnusr0-a04.nash.tds.net [207.0.84.132]) by mail.tds.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA16934 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 14:47:06 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <369A6348.2903A5D6@nash.tds.net> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 14:47:04 -0600 From: Kent & Kat Organization: Oak, Ash, and Thorn X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Color associations References: <199901100232.VAA10362@jefferson.patriot.net> <369A109B.4D7@uvm.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kent & Kat Hope Greenberg wrote: > > Oh yes, and my favorite "weird hat" Magdalen has to be > Rogier van der Weyden's, in the right wing of the Brach > family triptych, available at > http://sunserv.kfki.hu/arthp/html/w/weyden/altar/index.html This link didn't work for me...is there an alternate? Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 17:50:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA30541 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:50:48 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA07617; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 15:01:24 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA07909 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 14:55:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp0-alterdial.uu.net (smtp0-alterdial.UU.NET [192.48.96.28]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA07870 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 14:55:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from jwilbur1 by smtp0-alterdial.uu.net with SMTP (peer crosschecked as: 63.pcpool89.corp.us.uu.net [153.39.89.63]) id QQfxtf24379 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:55:23 GMT Message-Id: From: "Jessica Wilbur" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 16:55:29 -0500 Subject: Re: H-COST: help with men's and women's German Ren Priority: normal In-reply-to: <94aa8e0.3697473d@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.00 beta 6) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Jessica Wilbur" > > -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com > > In a message dated 1/7/99 12:35:00 PM Pacific Standard Time, > margo@directcon.net writes: > > > > > I usually cut slashes with an Exacto knife. Some people swear by rotary > > cutters. > > For small cuttes I use a charp. No dragging against the fabric, Just a sharp > bang, and voila! OK, at the risk of showing my ignorance, I *have* to ask: What's a charp?? Thanks! --Jessica _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 19:00:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA30803 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 19:00:19 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA03561; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:07:22 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA03316 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:07:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from tor-smtp1.netcom.ca (tor-smtp1.netcom.ca [207.181.101.69]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA03304 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:07:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from default (trt-on29-67.netcom.ca [209.146.239.195]) by tor-smtp1.netcom.ca (8.8.7-s-4/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA25187 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 19:06:39 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001c01be3dc0$2d3adc80$c3ef92d1@default> From: "David Stamper & Eve Harris" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Color associations Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 19:09:22 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "David Stamper & Eve Harris" >By the way, another costume caveat I've heard is "don't wear yellow, >especially yellow sleeves, because that's a prostitutes color." Where >does that one come from? > >- Hope Lives of the Courtesans mentions yellow veils in particular as being an identifier for prostitutes in Italy. I'm not sure, but I think it also mentioned that a couple of the city states had legislation in this vein, along with the "no pearls" rule for courtesans, who of course paid no heed to such laws. Eve Harris _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 19:34:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA30982 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 19:34:36 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA07311; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:42:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA08434 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:42:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from isis.netherworld.com (isis.Netherworld.COM [199.165.233.10]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA08425 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:42:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost by isis.netherworld.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA10007 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:33:47 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:33:45 -0700 (MST) From: Sylvia Rognstad To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Color associations In-Reply-To: <001c01be3dc0$2d3adc80$c3ef92d1@default> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sylvia Rognstad > > -Poster: "David Stamper & Eve Harris" > Lives of the Courtesans mentions yellow veils in particular as being an > identifier for prostitutes in Italy. I'm not sure, but I think it also > mentioned that a couple of the city states had legislation in this vein, > along with the "no pearls" rule for courtesans, who of course paid no heed > to such laws. I seem to recall yellow being associated with courtesans from way back in ancient Rome. Anyone familiar with that notion? SylviA _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 19:46:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA31029 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 19:46:24 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA09002; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:54:11 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA10161 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:54:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (mailsorter-105.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.95]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA10153 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:54:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailtod-142.iap.bryant.webtv.net (mailtod-142.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.129]) by mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with ESMTP id QAA25664; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 16:54:03 -0800 (PST) Received: (from production@localhost) by mailtod-142.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/mt.gso.26Feb98) id QAA13402; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 16:54:02 -0800 (PST) X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAsAhQ1vaSv9+0U7nTxIdS6LK8sHr2ZfQIUPENDWwAddMHxoHh18scKuKegA08= From: starsinger@webtv.net (theresa sorrell) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:54:02 -0700 (MST) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Color associations Message-ID: <13748-369A9D2A-1156@mailtod-142.iap.bryant.webtv.net> In-Reply-To: Sylvia Rognstad 's message of Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:33:45 -0700 (MST) Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: starsinger@webtv.net (theresa sorrell) < I seem to recall yellow being associated with courtesans from way back in ancient Rome. Anyone familiar with that notion? SylviA> The closet to yellow I can remember is the prostitutes were supposed to be blonde or wear a blond wig. Anyone familiar with this one? Starsinger _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 20:33:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA31208 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 20:33:01 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA13092; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 18:40:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA15575 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 18:40:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA15570 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 18:40:15 -0700 (MST) From: AliaClaire@aol.com Received: from AliaClaire@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 0NPQa20555 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 20:37:55 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <8e635696.369aa773@aol.com> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 20:37:55 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Color associations Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows sub 214 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: AliaClaire@aol.com In a message dated 1/11/99 2:25:48 PM EST, seamstrix@juno.com writes: << In 1352 the mayor, Adam Francis, procured an Act of Parliment, again seeking control over City prostitution and repeating the ancient proscription,'....that no known Whore shoulde be so bold as to wear any Hood or Attire on her head except ray(striped red cloth of diverse colors)....' this proved just as ineffective as all previous injunctions. >> This is interesting...I can't quote anything specific, although I can try and find some references if anyone's intersted, that the custom of prostitues going with their heads uncovered lasted all the way through the American Civil War, when it was a sign of decency fo females to keep their heads covered. -Alison Stacy AliaClaire@aol.com Canton, Ohio _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 20:34:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA31222 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 20:34:24 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA08363; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:48:32 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA09380 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:48:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.cho.org (mail.cho.org [209.77.137.36]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id RAA09373 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:48:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35]) by mail.cho.org; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 16:48:12 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: ldownward@198.211.240.120 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <001c01be3dc0$2d3adc80$c3ef92d1@default> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 16:52:30 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lynn Downward Subject: Re: H-COST: Color associations Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lynn Downward >-Poster: Sylvia Rognstad > >> >> -Poster: "David Stamper & Eve Harris" >> Lives of the Courtesans mentions yellow veils in particular as being an >> identifier for prostitutes in Italy. I'm not sure, but I think it also >> mentioned that a couple of the city states had legislation in this vein, >> along with the "no pearls" rule for courtesans, who of course paid no heed >> to such laws. >I seem to recall yellow being associated with courtesans from way back in >ancient Rome. Anyone familiar with that notion? >SylviA > I recall that in either ancient Greece or ancient Rome, prostitutes were the only women to have blonde hair, but that's the only connection I can remember. LynnD _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 20:43:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA31256 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 20:42:59 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA14048; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 18:50:35 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA16581 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 18:50:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from sun.rmci.net (sun.rmci.net [205.162.184.21]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id SAA16563 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 18:50:24 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 7293 invoked from network); 12 Jan 1999 01:45:28 -0000 Received: from pag-di38.rica.net (HELO rica.net) (209.211.110.38) by sun.rmci.net with SMTP; 12 Jan 1999 01:45:28 -0000 Message-ID: <369AA812.512A26A1@rica.net> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 20:40:35 -0500 From: Jennie Chancey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Need info about a costume book... References: <8320d494.3692edda@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Jennie Chancey Does anyone know anything about Millia Davenport's _The Book of Costume_ (two volumes)? I have never heard of it before, but it looks like a good one to purchase. I'd appreciate any feedback! Thanks, Jennie -- Sense and Sensibility http://www.sensibility.com winsome clothing with an old-fashioned appeal _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 21:21:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA31464 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:21:06 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA17972; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 19:28:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA20538 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 19:28:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from hummer.tci.net (hummer.TCI.NET [209.19.4.19]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA20531 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 19:28:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from c59303-a (c59303-a.mckiny1.tx.home.com [24.4.53.172]) by hummer.tci.net with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2232.9) id YRF0SHLH; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 19:27:22 -0700 Message-ID: <013c01be3dd6$14dbd700$ac350418@c59303-a.mckiny1.tx.home.com> From: "Franchesca Havas" To: Subject: H-COST: Scottish costumes Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 20:48:16 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Franchesca Havas" Sorry wrong title to the wrong email, switched the same thing to the other person, aaaugggghhh! Sincerely, Ches aka Chiara Francesca Steward of Coronation XL http://www.io.com/~ches/coronation99 -----Original Message----- From: ches To: Multiple recipients of list H-COSTUME Date: Monday, January 11, 1999 2:44 PM Subject: H-COST: Spanish costumes : :-Poster: ches : :Cna anyone help them out or send me info to point them in the right :direction? : :Sincerely, :Ches :aka Chiara Francesca :Steward of Coronation XL : : :-----Original Message----- :From: Phil and Karan Foster < phil@globeco.net > :To: ches@io.com < ches@io.com > :Date: Sunday, January 10, 1999 10:42 AM :Subject: Clothing : : :I am interested in the clothing of Scotland around the 1350s. Can you :maybe give me a direction to look. Book titles would be helpful. :Thank you and have a good week. : :Phil :(ska Angus Forrest) : : _________________________________________________________________ : To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com : with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME : _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 21:28:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA31508 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:28:27 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA18527; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 19:36:11 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA21309 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 19:36:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA21165 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 19:35:52 -0700 (MST) From: AlbraKat@aol.com Received: from AlbraKat@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id JZYOa04794 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:27:03 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <685e9973.369ab2f7@aol.com> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:27:03 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Need info about a costume book... Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 58 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: AlbraKat@aol.com THAT should be one of the basics in your costumne library, M'Dear! It's definite keeper! Cheers--- Albra _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 22:56:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA32040 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 22:56:45 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA26725; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:04:29 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA00274 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:04:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.68]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA00263 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:04:19 -0700 (MST) From: Appin1@aol.com Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 8YMBa03472 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 22:53:34 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 22:53:34 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Need info about a costume book... Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 230 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Appin1@aol.com Jennie -- Buy it. It's one of those "must have" overview books. Kathleen Norvell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 23:43:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA32316 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 23:43:52 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA00674; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:51:31 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA04787 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:51:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.37]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA04776 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:51:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([12.72.133.50]) by mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.05 118 121 101) with ESMTP id <19990112045051.CYSJ3071@worldnet.att.net> for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 04:50:51 +0000 Message-ID: <369AD57D.5C88890@worldnet.att.net> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 20:54:21 -0800 From: don and carolyn richardson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-WNS2.5 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: "Art of Manipulating Fabric" References: <19990111091259.ESSF17623@LOCALNAME> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: don and carolyn richardson Connie Carroll wrote: > It's a great book. > > Kassandra NickKraken > > Hello everyone: > > > > I was browsing in a bookstore yesterday, and came across the > > following "techniques-type" title which list members might find > > useful: > > > > Wolf, Colette. Art of Manipulating Fabric. Iola, Wisconsin: Krause > > Publishing. > > (Sorry, forgot to jot down the date of publication!) ISBN: > > 0-8019-8496-3 It's definitely worth the money. I bought my copy about 8 months ago at Border's and it's worth its weight in gold IMHO. Carolyn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 00:22:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA00314 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 00:22:06 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA03940; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 22:29:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA08336 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 22:28:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from titanium.sge.net (titanium.sge.net [152.91.9.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA08325 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 22:28:49 -0700 (MST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by titanium.sge.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA21245 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:28:16 +1100 (EST) Received: from kryptonite.sge.net(10.1.2.11) by titanium.sge.net via smap (3.2) id xma020806; Tue, 12 Jan 99 16:27:36 +1100 Received: from amber. (ice-int2.sge.net [10.1.2.254]) by kryptonite.sge.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA19066 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:27:35 +1100 (EST) Message-Id: <199901120527.QAA19066@kryptonite.sge.net> From: WICKHAM Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: H-COST: RE: 15" waists Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:25:49 +1100 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: WICKHAM Raymond Has anyone interested in pursueing the things humans put their bodies through for fashion The Museum of London has been running an interesting exhibition (with a cheap mail order publication) on just this subject http://www.museum-london.org.uk/MOLsite/menu.htm Ray "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honour, We ourselves are Lord and Master." > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 00:40:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA00392 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 00:40:16 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA05583; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 22:47:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA10156 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 22:47:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from komarr.local.thibault.org (mg134-121.ricochet.net [204.179.134.121]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA10144 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 22:47:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from ricochet.net (athene.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.14]) by komarr.local.thibault.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA26473 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:51:20 -0800 Message-ID: <369AE2E3.E439527F@ricochet.net> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:55:02 -0800 From: Cynthia Virtue Organization: Virtue Ventures http://www.virtue.to X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Pigments, dyes, and the accuracy of paintings (was: color question) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Cynthia Virtue That's a great posting, Robin, thank you! > cannot be used to dye fabric. I am not a dyer, but people who have made > medieval dyes their specialty have assured me that there is no dye > equivalent for ultramarine blue. Maybe not exactly equivalent, but I have seen some amazing blues quite close to Ultramarine in the Devonshire Hunting Tapestries. So they could get fairly close, if not spot-on. > jeweled hems. Once I started seeing jeweled hems as a clue for the > viewer, I found it helped with my readings of some more ambiguous works, > such as the Lady with the Unicorn tapestries. But that's another lecture. Do tell! =-=-=-=-= "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet LXXXI "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia Virtue _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 01:10:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA00709 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 01:10:38 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA08238; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 23:18:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA11159 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 22:59:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA11087 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 22:58:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.178] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 0zzwqe-000157-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:58:40 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990111213513.00bbe2f0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:36:56 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: RE: 15" waists In-Reply-To: <19990111190310.27656.qmail@www0h.netaddress.usa.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >Okay, someone please change the subject before I get REALLY depressed. I was >just trying to figure out what was making my purse so heavy and ran across a >tape measure. Remembering this thread, I thought "I wonder what 15 inches >really looks like...Oh that's not very big...I wonder....what MY NECK IS 15 >INCHES!!!!" Don't get me going about depressing sizes. I grew up when 36-26-36 was supposed to be the perfect set of measurements. My ribs currently measure larger around than that 36 part... Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 01:11:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA00718 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 01:11:15 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA08313; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 23:18:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA11125 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 22:58:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA11086 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 22:58:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.178] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 0zzwqf-000157-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:58:42 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990111213748.00ba2ec0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:39:26 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_H-COST:_Hello,_I=B4m_new?= In-Reply-To: <36950958.5071F7FF@ndh.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Welcome Diana. Many of us here like the 19th and 20th centuries too. I hope you like it here. >Hello costume friends! > >With this I just want to introduce myself to you as I`m new on the list. > >I`m not a costume artist myself ( at least I haven`t tried yet...) but I >`m very >interested in the topic of costume history. > >My name`s Diana, I`m 21 years old and live in Cologne, Germany. >I love reenactment and I`m active in medieval and baroque groups here in >Europe. >But I`m also interested in other decades, like the 19th and early 20th >century. > >If you have special questions concerning European things, feel free to >ask, I`ve got >some good literature and could look for things. > >Your talk is in every case very interesting! > >Many greetings, >Diana > >P.S.: Somebody else living in Europe here? Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 01:20:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA00755 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 01:20:35 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA09088; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 23:28:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA11122 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 22:58:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA11088 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 22:58:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.178] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 0zzwqh-000157-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:58:44 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990111214057.00bbf1e0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:57:22 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Need info about a costume book... In-Reply-To: <369AA812.512A26A1@rica.net> References: <8320d494.3692edda@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >Does anyone know anything about Millia Davenport's _The Book of Costume_ >(two volumes)? I have never heard of it before, but it looks like a >good one to purchase. I'd appreciate any feedback! I have owned my copy (I have the edition with both volumes in one cover) thru 40+ years and two bindings. It is FULL of pictures (2,778 of them) from original sources and of original garments, tho none in colour in my copy. I only wish the pictures were a little clearer/sharper, and didn't abruptly end in about 1867. Davenport is the one thing I would rescue from the hypothetical house fire if there were only time to grab one thing (right after making sure my kids got out safely, that is). I un-humbly think it's the best one-book costume library anywhere. I'm biased. P.S. Jennie - I think I owe you a Regency shoe pattern from a couple of years ago. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 01:20:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA00759 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 01:20:50 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA09144; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 23:28:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA11079 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 22:58:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA11067 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 22:58:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.178] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 0zzwqc-000157-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:58:39 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990111213313.00bc6eb0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:34:42 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Colours In-Reply-To: <001a01be3d93$2485fc00$90a06480@dsc> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >I think the thing to keep in mind when examining the issue about whether >such and so colour was really worn is to use both kinds of evidence--e.g. >paintings and knowledge about dye technology--together. For instance, using >the pink example--if we have examples of people wearing it and we also know >that it's possible to get pinks with the dye technology of the period, we >might be able to safely conclude that such pink clothing might have actually >existed. From there, we can keep adding in new evidence (e.g. written >accounts, archaeological records) to broaden the picture. > >However, if it's simply impossible (or extremely difficult) to get a certain >colour using the technology of the period, we can probably safely conclude >that we're running into a case of dyes and pigments being different. This >can get very subtle--for instance, while the depiction of a red dress in a >painting (particularly an earlier one) might indicate that red dresses were >worn, it does not mean that the shade of red was exactly the same as in the >painting. I keep hearing the one about pink not being period, but I never believed that one. It's too easy to get, if only by dying with the lees of the red. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 01:34:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA00829 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 01:34:40 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA09953; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 23:42:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA14325 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 23:42:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id XAA14303 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 23:42:12 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 23:42:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 2503 invoked from network); 12 Jan 1999 06:37:48 -0000 Received: from 35.240.3-5.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (207.183.240.35) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 12 Jan 1999 06:37:48 -0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19990111224226.2f47fcc2@mail2.quiknet.com> X-Sender: joanj@mail2.quiknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Colours Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Joan M Jurancich At 09:34 PM 01/11/1999 -0800, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > >-Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > > >>I think the thing to keep in mind when examining the issue about whether >>such and so colour was really worn is to use both kinds of evidence--e.g. >>paintings and knowledge about dye technology--together. For instance, using >>the pink example--if we have examples of people wearing it and we also know >>that it's possible to get pinks with the dye technology of the period, we >>might be able to safely conclude that such pink clothing might have actually >>existed. From there, we can keep adding in new evidence (e.g. written >>accounts, archaeological records) to broaden the picture. [snip] > >I keep hearing the one about pink not being period, but I never believed >that one. It's too easy to get, if only by dying with the lees of the red. > > >Kayta [snip cute sig] And I have a copy of a portrait of Sir Francis Drake, yes the famouse circumnavigator, in a full suit (doublet or jerkin, cloak, venetians, and nether hose) of rather bright pink. The portrait was painted "by an unknown artist", c. 1580-85. The original is in the National Portrait Gallery in London. (I was able to purchase a 1997 Tudor Portraits calendar of NPG paintings, but I haven't seen any subsequent ones. Has anyone seen a 1998 or 1999 edition?) Joan Jurancich aka Lady Dorothy (Hastings) Devereux [RPFN], mother [in-law] to Lady Essex joanj@quiknet.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 01:34:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA00833 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 01:34:43 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA09946; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 23:42:22 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA14318 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 23:42:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id XAA14305 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 23:42:12 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 23:42:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 2503 invoked from network); 12 Jan 1999 06:37:48 -0000 Received: from 35.240.3-5.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (207.183.240.35) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 12 Jan 1999 06:37:48 -0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19990111224226.2f47fcc2@mail2.quiknet.com> X-Sender: joanj@mail2.quiknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Colours Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Joan M Jurancich At 09:34 PM 01/11/1999 -0800, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > >-Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > > >>I think the thing to keep in mind when examining the issue about whether >>such and so colour was really worn is to use both kinds of evidence--e.g. >>paintings and knowledge about dye technology--together. For instance, using >>the pink example--if we have examples of people wearing it and we also know >>that it's possible to get pinks with the dye technology of the period, we >>might be able to safely conclude that such pink clothing might have actually >>existed. From there, we can keep adding in new evidence (e.g. written >>accounts, archaeological records) to broaden the picture. [snip] > >I keep hearing the one about pink not being period, but I never believed >that one. It's too easy to get, if only by dying with the lees of the red. > > >Kayta [snip cute sig] And I have a copy of a portrait of Sir Francis Drake, yes the famouse circumnavigator, in a full suit (doublet or jerkin, cloak, venetians, and nether hose) of rather bright pink. The portrait was painted "by an unknown artist", c. 1580-85. The original is in the National Portrait Gallery in London. (I was able to purchase a 1997 Tudor Portraits calendar of NPG paintings, but I haven't seen any subsequent ones. Has anyone seen a 1998 or 1999 edition?) Joan Jurancich aka Lady Dorothy (Hastings) Devereux [RPFN], mother [in-law] to Lady Essex joanj@quiknet.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 02:55:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA01147 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 02:55:14 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id BAA14228; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 01:01:07 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id BAA18569 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 01:01:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.66]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id BAA18562 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 01:00:58 -0700 (MST) From: MaggiRos@aol.com Received: from MaggiRos@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 4SQHa01428 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 03:00:18 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 03:00:18 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Color associations/Mary magdalene Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 224 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com In a message dated 1/10/99 9:31:14 AM Pacific Standard Time, clough@erols.com writes: > > -Poster: Brenda and Larry Clough > > At 09:59 AM 1/10/99 -0700, you wrote: > > > >-Poster: Sylvia Rognstad > > > >> -Poster: > >> The idea that Mary Magdalen was a prostitute is actually combining > >> her life story with that of other women, some of whom were prostitutes. A > > >> good book is _Mary Magdalen: Myth and Metaphor_, (sorry I forget the > >> author) which separates the myths. Magdalen's "truth" is that she knew > >> Jesus (she was practically an apostle). After His death, she became a > >> hermit in the desert, and her hair grew to such an extent as to hide her > >> nakedness. (that's a rather non-costume connection!) > > > >Then where did the story in the Bible come from if she wasnt a prostitute? > >Why were they trying to stone her to death and why did Jesus tell her to > >go and sin no more, or whatever it was? > > > >Sylvia R > > > > That was "the woman taken in adultery," who is not named in any way. There > is also Mary sister of Martha and Lazarus, and Mary Magdalen, the jazzy > liver who repented and crashed a dinner party so as to pour a jar of > expensive ointment over Jesus's feet. Tradition says all three of these > ladies are the same person, but this isn't supported by the Bible, and you > could just as well assume they were three separate persons. > > Brenda Precisely, Brenda, and thank you. Interested parties may want to look at "Mary Magdalen: Myth and Metaphor" by Susan Haskins (Harcourt, 1993 ISBN 0-15-157765-X) for a slightly over-stated but certainly thorough explanation of why the Magdalen was NOT a prostitute and why she had to become one. For historical interpretive purposes, unhappily, we have to remember that she came to be used as an exemplum of a fallen woman redeemed, and has been for 1800 years or so, regardless of what the documentation. A pity, but there it is. The iconography is what it is. You know how hard it is for a girl to recover from a bad reputation. :) MaggiRos _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 03:05:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA06857 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 03:05:36 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id BAA14799; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 01:13:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id BAA19261 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 01:13:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id BAA19252 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 01:13:23 -0700 (MST) From: MaggiRos@aol.com Received: from MaggiRos@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id OHNGa06037 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 03:12:28 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 03:12:28 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: color question and portraits Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 224 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com I'm delighted to get the arguments for "paint only" made clearer. I get so tired of the broad dismissal of portrait colors, just because someone can't imagine, but without backing it up. >From what I'm seeing here, by the time of the mid-16th century Mannerists, it's probably no longer safe to presume the color of a noblewoman's carnation gown, or an earl's peacock blue hose, is paint-only. On the one hand, I'm delighted to be reliably instructed, even when it means having to re-think what I thought! On the other, I can now make my stand on the Elizabethans (Ok, not counting the eyes-and-ears dress) with more confidence than bravado. I come out ahead, either way :-) You can't get this kind of conversation just anywhere! MaggiRos _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 03:15:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA06895 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 03:14:59 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id BAA15097; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 01:22:54 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id BAA19652 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 01:22:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.66]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id BAA19646 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 01:22:46 -0700 (MST) From: MaggiRos@aol.com Received: from MaggiRos@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id NWDJa01440 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 03:22:03 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <7a97f51d.369b062b@aol.com> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 03:22:03 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: help with men's and women's German Ren Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 224 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com In a message dated 1/11/99 3:15:00 PM Pacific Standard Time, jessica@pop.net writes: > > OK, at the risk of showing my ignorance, I *have* to ask: What's a charp?? > Oh damn, I'm sorry. A typoe PLUS an ommitted word. I meant a sharp chisel. The real joke, I suppose, is that the chisels I used to have for this purpose were made by one of the finest knifemakers on the planet (not just my opinion), Jim Hrisoulas, aka Master Atar Baktar. That much talent probably isn't necessary, although it did mean custom sizes :). Sorry for introducing an element of random confusion without meaning to. (I'd always rather be confusing on purpose!) MaggiRos _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 08:17:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA08437 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:17:40 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id GAA26022; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 06:25:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id GAA29352 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 06:25:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.66]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id GAA29347 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 06:25:10 -0700 (MST) From: Schmitt100@aol.com Received: from Schmitt100@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id NCYWa01440 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:24:12 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <2046c7c9.369b4cfc@aol.com> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:24:12 EST To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #28 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Schmitt100@aol.com In a message dated 1/10/99 6:24:01 PM Central Standard Time, owner-h-costume- digest@indra.com writes: > Then where did the story in the Bible come from if she wasnt a prostitute? > Why were they trying to stone her to death and why did Jesus tell her to > go and sin no more, or whatever it was? > > Sylvia R Take a look at your Bible - that woman was NEVER identified; tradition/myth ascribed her as Mary M. ********************** Rebecca Schmitt So many books, so little time schmitt100@aol.com ********************** _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 10:10:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA08857 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 10:10:39 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA05183; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:17:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA10737 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:16:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA10717 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:16:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.1-12 #29137) id <01J6GHSV9A2O002RCA@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:18:47 GMT Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.1-12 #29137) with ESMTP id <01J6GHSTURDW002MHN@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:18:42 +0000 (GMT) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.43); Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:16:41 +0000 (GMT0BST) Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.43); Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:16:13 +0000 (GMT0BST) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:16:08 +0000 (GMT) From: Teddy Subject: H-COST: Cuff puzzle in painting To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: <342DD1B1150@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Teddy Hello all, I was glancing at a few pictures on the web and in one noticed something I find puzzling so was hoping the collective knowledge of the listmembers would throw some light on the matter. http://www.costumegallery.com/pompadour/material.1500.151x_1.jpg This picture (of a "nobleman" by Jan Gossaert) shows a richly dressed man wearing a white brocade gown over a black slashed doublet. Under the doublet is a white shirt which is very full and puffs through the slashes in the doublet body and sleeves beautifully. The shirt has a high collar (which is either a band of brocade or is highly embroidered) and what looks like matching cuffs (possibly embroidered with pearls) are visible through the slashes on the doublet sleeve at both wrists. What puzzles me is that under the ruffles at the wrists of the shirt there is a row of tabs/picadils. I thought a first that the subject might be wearing gloves, and these tabs were decorating the opening at the wrist, but on closer inspection, the finger-nails are visible on at least the left hand of the sitter. Is this man wearing another, long sleeved, garment *under* that beautiful shirt, the only part visible being the picadils/tabs at the wrist?? Can anyone shed some light on this matter? Thanks in advance Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of air and darkness, apparently!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 10:11:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA08864 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 10:11:12 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA05378; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:19:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA10996 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:18:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA10939 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:18:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip180.an7-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.18.180]) by goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA10628 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 07:18:29 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <369B5A65.7B3FC3F9@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 10:21:27 -0400 From: Laurel Wilson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03C-NSCP (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: help with men's and women's German Ren References: <7a97f51d.369b062b@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Laurel Wilson : > In a message dated 1/11/99 3:15:00 PM Pacific Standard Time, jessica@pop.net > writes: > > > > > OK, at the risk of showing my ignorance, I *have* to ask: What's a charp?? > > > > Oh damn, I'm sorry. A typoe PLUS an ommitted word. I meant a sharp chisel. > I too thought a 'charp' was a tool I had never heard of, but unlike Jessica, I wasn't smart enough to ask--I guess this proves one should *always* ask! Lauri _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 10:30:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA08940 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 10:30:34 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA07079; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:38:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA13978 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:37:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from artemis.chass.utoronto.ca (artemis.chass.utoronto.ca [128.100.160.6]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA13900 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:37:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from dsc (ppp17.chass.utoronto.ca [128.100.160.137]) by artemis.chass.utoronto.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA08053 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 10:39:03 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <005b01be3e41$ec0b1c20$89a06480@dsc> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: Subject: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #31 Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 10:40:44 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Greetings! >- -Poster: Melanie Wilson > >Look at Circa 1265 sites > >http://homepages.strath.ac.uk/~cjis28/Medieval/index.html > >and > >http://www.shef.ac.uk/misc/personal/cs1jwh/c1265/index.html > >I'm a member of c1265 too, which is 13th C English/Welsh, if she wants to >contact me further I have some bits and pieces, mainly paper based I could >send I wanted to mention that I've seen the c1265 site and I'm extremely jealous. This is almost precisely the same period, places, and people I concentrate on. I certainly enjoy the SCA but there are times I wish for a group here in North America where everyone knew who Simon de Montfort was. Cheers-- Susan Carroll-Clark Mistress Nicolaa de Bracton of Leicester _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 10:43:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA08988 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 10:43:28 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA08444; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:51:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA16172 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:51:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from artemis.chass.utoronto.ca (artemis.chass.utoronto.ca [128.100.160.6]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA16159 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:50:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from dsc (ppp17.chass.utoronto.ca [128.100.160.137]) by artemis.chass.utoronto.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA09037 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 10:52:13 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <006a01be3e43$c2f32c40$89a06480@dsc> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: Subject: H-COST: Re: Colours Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 10:53:54 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Greetings! >I keep hearing the one about pink not being period, but I never believed >that one. It's too easy to get, if only by dying with the lees of the red I hope you didn't think I was claiming it wasn't period in my post. I've seen some absolutely amazing schocking pinks created by lichen dyes--colours you intially look at and say "that can't possibly have been period!" but yep, entirely possible. One thing it's difficult to know is whether being able to obtain a dye through a period process necessarily means it was used, or how much it was used. This is where looking at paintings, household accounts, and achaeological finds can help. For instance, we have so many archaeological finds which were dyed with madder that I think it's a safe bet that if you can get it with madder, there's a good possibility it was used. But a pink from madder (from the remnants of a red dyebath) will look different than a pink from lichen. In a more general sense, simply knowing that green or purple were possible colours won't tell you which shades of green or purple were meant. (My favourite here is "Imperial purple" which isn't the eggplanty or grapey shade we think of as "royal purple" today, but rather a deep purplish red. Fabulous colour....) Susan Carroll-Clark _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 11:01:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA09077 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:01:03 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA11122; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 09:09:07 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA19131 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 09:08:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp0-alterdial.uu.net (smtp0-alterdial.UU.NET [192.48.96.28]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA19118 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 09:08:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from jwilbur1 by smtp0-alterdial.uu.net with SMTP (peer crosschecked as: 63.pcpool89.corp.us.uu.net [153.39.89.63]) id QQfxwa08006 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:08:37 GMT Message-Id: From: "Jessica Wilbur" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:08:49 -0500 Subject: Re: H-COST: help with men's and women's German Ren Priority: normal In-reply-to: <7a97f51d.369b062b@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.00 beta 6) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Jessica Wilbur" > > -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com > > In a message dated 1/11/99 3:15:00 PM Pacific Standard Time, jessica@pop.net > writes: > > > > > OK, at the risk of showing my ignorance, I *have* to ask: What's a charp?? > > > > Oh damn, I'm sorry. A typoe PLUS an ommitted word. I meant a sharp chisel. > Oh, whew! No wonder I was so confused.... =D That makes *much* more sense! > The real joke, I suppose, is that the chisels I used to have for this purpose > were made by one of the finest knifemakers on the planet (not just my > opinion), Jim Hrisoulas, aka Master Atar Baktar. That much talent probably > isn't necessary, although it did mean custom sizes :). > > Sorry for introducing an element of random confusion without meaning to. (I'd > always rather be confusing on purpose!) Oh, random confusion always brightens my day... =) --Jessica _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 11:08:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA09103 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:08:34 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA11780; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 09:16:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA20313 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 09:16:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from ms1.dgsys.com (ms1.dgsys.com [204.97.64.22]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA20306 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 09:16:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from dgs.dgsys.com (robin@hme-dgs.dgsys.com [207.154.14.2]) by ms1.dgsys.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA20955 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:16:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by dgs.dgsys.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA11661 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:16:01 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: dgs.dgsys.com: robin owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:16:01 -0500 (EST) From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Colours In-Reply-To: <006a01be3e43$c2f32c40$89a06480@dsc> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Robin Netherton Someone wrote: > >I keep hearing the one about pink not being period, but I never believed > >that one... Oddly, I've heard this in regard to paints as well as dyes! Evidently from people who haven't looked at very many primary sources -- pink is common in medieval manuscripts, in many wonderful shades, and achievable in a variety of ways. I wonder if this urban myth originated with someone misunderstanding the quite accurate statement that the *word* "pink" is not medieval (or Elizabethan). Rather, the word is period, but not as a color name. The OED (I just checked) has nine different main headers for pink, and many more sub-meanings. The first citation for a color name meaning "light red" is 1681 (and you can figure it was in use slightly before that, but only slightly). Oddly, the same word was defined as a "yellowish-green" pigment starting a bit earlier in the 1600s. (The citations are interesting worth reading.) The OED cites the origins of the color-name use as "obscure." One theory I've heard is that it came from the the name of certain flowers known as "pinks" that happened to be that color. The flowers, in turn, may have drawn their name because their ruffled edges resembled the small slashes on "pinked" garments. The OED is dubious about this -- it cites a pre-1600 meaning of "pinking" as putting decorative holes or eyelets in fabric, but not as edge-slashing till *much* later. Funny, I always assumed that the Elizabethans called that fringy stuff "pinking." I would have to delve deeper on that one to see if the OED missed some references that were common in tailor's usage and wardrobe accounts. But the OED doesn't miss much. Oops, sorry, I digressed. Anyway, I can see someone teaching in, say, a poetry-writing class that "pink" is "not period," and that statement getting taken out of context and mistakenly applied to clothing or painting. --Robin, who really should be doing work and not reading this list _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 11:28:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA09215 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:28:03 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA14346; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 09:36:07 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA23566 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 09:35:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.pacifier.com (root@smtp.pacifier.com [199.2.117.96]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA23559 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 09:35:39 -0700 (MST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: from grendal2 (ip203.van19.pacifier.com [216.65.141.203]) by smtp.pacifier.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA02515 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:35:37 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901121635.IAA02515@smtp.pacifier.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:36:10 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Colours Priority: normal In-reply-to: <4.1.19990111213313.00bc6eb0@pop.slip.net> References: <001a01be3d93$2485fc00$90a06480@dsc> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > I keep hearing the one about pink not being period, but I never believed > that one. It's too easy to get, if only by dying with the lees of the red. I think that pink is period but dying with the lees was something that was avoided. I don't have time to look it up now but I've seen statutes where it was illegal to sell them, letters where it was discussed as something to be avoided as low class and numerous things which indicated that the medievals preferred intense colors requiring several overdyings to make sure that it was as intense as possible. True pastels were not popular until late Elizabethan. The pinks that I have seen in tapestries were not baby pink but intense pinks (deep roses, brilliant peach, almost fluorescent pinks in some cases.) Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 11:45:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA09340 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:45:52 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA16717; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 09:53:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA26791 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 09:53:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.eskimo.com (root@mail.eskimo.com [204.122.16.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA26767 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 09:53:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from default (someone@tia1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.40]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA09379 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:53:00 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901121653.IAA09379@mail.eskimo.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: someone@eskimo.com To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:52:50 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: H-COST: Shakespeare in Love Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.42) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: someone@eskimo.com I went to see it yesterday, and I concur with the other comments I've seen here -- wonderful movie, wonderful costumes. The only thing that caught my eye as a possible false note (and I'm willing to accept the possibility that it's just my eye, and not really anything not in period) is the shade of many of the blues used in the costumes. I have extensive experience dyeing with indigo, alone and in combination with other natural dyes, and many of the blues in the film didn't fit in with the range I'm accustomed to seeing. For the most part, they were more in the teal/aqua/turquiose range than I expected. There was also something (a piece of cloth? a costume?) hanging on a rack backstage at the theatre that was a clear, jewel-toned sapphire. So, what is the opinion of those on this list in the know? Are those blues wrong for the period? Was it just my eyes? Possibly a bad print of the film, with the colors off from what they were when filmed? Any other ideas? Pam Dotson Everett, WA USA _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 12:59:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA09679 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:59:05 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA27515; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:06:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA03757 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 10:33:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from komarr.local.thibault.org (mg134-121.ricochet.net [204.179.134.121]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA03703 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 10:32:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from komarr.local.thibault.org (komarr.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.17]) by komarr.local.thibault.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA28642 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 09:36:43 -0800 Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 09:36:42 -0800 (PST) From: Cynthia Virtue X-Sender: cvirtue@komarr.local.thibault.org To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Colours In-Reply-To: <199901121635.IAA02515@smtp.pacifier.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Cynthia Virtue Two years ago the ChicagoInst. of Art had a show of ecclisiastic garments, including many from the 1400s. One that I recall strongly was dark pink (fairly intense, but not flourescent!) with quarter-sized metalic gold polka dots on it. Not at all what one would think of for this time period, but there it was, right in front of me. I believe it was heavy silk. -- Cynthia Virtue Virtue is her own reward. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 12:59:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA09683 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:59:42 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA27613; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:06:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA11798 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:06:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [195.194.177.11]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA11737 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:06:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from csv6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA10760.; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 18:09:18 GMT Received: from staff-Message_Server by csv6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 18:05:40 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5 Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 18:05:07 +0000 From: "KATE M BUNTING" To: Subject: H-COST: uncovered heads Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id MAA09683 Status: O -Poster: "KATE M BUNTING" Alison Stacy wrote: This is interesting...I can't quote anything specific, although I can try and find some references if anyone's intersted, that the custom of prostitues going with their heads uncovered lasted all the way through the American Civil War, when it was a sign of decency fo females to keep their heads covered. - In the Sealed Knot society (English Civil War!) the question of whether only whores went bareheaded resurfaces from time to time. I think the general consensus is that, while it was usual for both sexes to wear something on the head indoors and out, it isn't a hard and fast rule. Illustrations show well-dressed ladies of the 17th century with only a small hair decoration. I don't remember seeing any documentary references to prostitutes' headgear, or lack of, from any period. Anyone else? Kate Bunting King's Lifeguard of Foote, SK _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 13:54:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA09903 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:54:26 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA04389; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:02:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA21330 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:01:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA21307 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:01:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (1Cust132.tnt2.sfo3.da.uu.net [153.37.7.132]) by hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA10394 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:01:30 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <369B9C9E.ADD6BAEE@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:03:58 -0800 From: Christina Conklin X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: ethnic costume resource books Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Christina Conklin First posting to this group . . . I am interested in creating historic ethnic costumes, like 16th c. Mughal robes, traditional Turkish jackets, ceremonial Korean gowns and the like. I have the little book Cut My Cote (long out of print) and am looking at buying Max Tilke's 1922 book on Oriental Costumes. But it costs over $100 (also long OOP), and the on-line version at Univ of Indiana just isn't the same. Is this the best book to get, or are there other resources people would recommend? I'm interested in all parts of the world, but particularly Asia, in the largest sense of that word. Also are there others out there doing this sort of thing, either for fun or profit? Any purveyors or web sites you all would recommend?? Many thanks, Christy Conklin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 14:07:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA09992 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:07:20 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA06054; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:15:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA23544 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:14:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f259.hotmail.com [207.82.251.150]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id MAA23479 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:14:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 5982 invoked by uid 0); 12 Jan 1999 19:13:48 -0000 Message-ID: <19990112191348.5980.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 131.107.3.72 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:13:47 PST X-Originating-IP: [131.107.3.72] From: "Crystal Webb" To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: requesting suggestions for a wedding dress Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:13:47 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Crystal Webb" Hello, I'm getting married this summer (*gasp!*) and I would really like to have a dress that I could use again. My future husband will be in Black Tails, top hat, the whole shebang. I'd like something that would look really good with this. I think Edwardian would look nice, but I'm more interested in something pre 1700. I was wondering if any of you have suggestions? Oh yeah, my body type is round and busty. Thanks in advance, Crystal ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 14:13:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA10024 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:13:26 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA07120; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:21:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA24451 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:20:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA24431 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:20:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.163] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 1009Mo-00031r-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:20:43 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990112111812.00b9f6a0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:19:08 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Pigments, dyes, and the accuracy of paintings (was: color question) In-Reply-To: <369AE2E3.E439527F@ricochet.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >> cannot be used to dye fabric. I am not a dyer, but people who have made >> medieval dyes their specialty have assured me that there is no dye >> equivalent for ultramarine blue. > >Maybe not exactly equivalent, but I have seen some amazing blues quite close >to Ultramarine in the Devonshire Hunting Tapestries. So they could get fairly >close, if not spot-on. >From natural dyes? Period ones? I am new to dyeing and would like to know them. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 14:22:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA10071 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:22:55 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA08617; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:30:58 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA26178 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:30:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA26086 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:29:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA10063 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 20:30:07 +0100 (MET) Received: from pc2 (vp189-135.worldonline.nl [195.241.189.135]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA11309 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 20:29:49 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199901121929.UAA11309@worldonline.nl> From: "Henk 't Jong" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Color associations Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 19:35:25 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands Hi Listers, Hope wrote: > 1) has anyone come across proscriptions on wearing the color yellow, or > associations of that color with any particular class or group, in any > sumptuary laws between, let's say 1100 and 1600 for western europe? Anybody > have a resource for Italian early-16th cent. sumptuary laws? > According to Joachim Bumke (Hoefische Kultur, 1989) the nobility in the 12th c was of the opnion that the lower orders should not be allowed to wear the same dress as they did and be confused with them. They called in the help of the emperor and in a 'Kaiserchronik' of about 1150, which was supposed to be a collection of laws by Charlemagne, they had the emperor ordering peasants to wear only black (!) or grey, no gussets except at the sides, shoes only made of cowhide, 7 ells of cloth for a shirt and pants of common boadcloth, no more, etc. For the record: although there are Carolingian 'capitularia' concerning military dress and equipment, to the best of my knowledge, there are none about dress. The middle of the 12th c is also the period when the church rallies against the aristocratic fashions of the time, among others that of noble women who wear yellow veils and later in the 13th c yellow fillets and barbettes instead of the normal white ones. Heinrich von Melk (end 12th c), Hugo von Trimberg (end 13th c) and the franciscan Berthold von Regensburg (end 13th c) all condemn the yellow 'bands' as sinful, being the colour of prostitution. In courtly literature, funnily enough, yellow was the colour of unfullfilled love; which to say the least gives this striven for goal a rather piquant touch. > 2) has anyone heard of the association of the color yellow with prostitutes > in any modern-day re-enactment/re-creation groups and if so, any details > about where the idea comes from? That is, is this another one of those > costume myths? > We in the LHO discourage the wearing of yellow as a basic colour for normal people and nobility (it can be used in woven bands, trim, and in some linings), except as a heraldic colour (which always goes together with another colour). Our strolling players and incidental whores on the other hand make use of it, based on the above mentioned sources and others. I'll try to find some of them, but it won't be soon. Busy, busy...:-) Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 14:27:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA10094 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:27:19 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA09004; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:34:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA26700 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:33:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA26142 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:30:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA10025 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 20:30:03 +0100 (MET) Received: from pc2 (vp189-135.worldonline.nl [195.241.189.135]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA11295 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 20:29:45 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199901121929.UAA11295@worldonline.nl> From: "Henk 't Jong" To: Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:_H-COST:_Hello=2C_I=B4m_new?= Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 17:38:37 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands Hi Diana, > You wrote: > With this I just want to introduce myself to you as I`m new on the list. > > I`m not a costume artist myself ( at least I haven`t tried yet...) but I > `m very > interested in the topic of costume history. > > My name`s Diana, I`m 21 years old and live in Cologne, Germany. > I love reenactment and I`m active in medieval and baroque groups here in > Europe. Can you tell us which ones? I'm a member of the LHO a medieval living history group (see: www.dsdelft.nl/~lho/) in Nederland, we have connections with Belgian and English groups, and recently, IG Wolf in Deutschland. > But I`m also interested in other decades, like the 19th and early 20th > century. > Welcome to the list! Hope you get some good information here; I know I got lots... > If you have special questions concerning European things, feel free to > ask, I`ve got > some good literature and could look for things. Maybe we can exchange information. Looking forward to your contributions. > > Your talk is in every case very interesting! > > Many greetings, > Diana > > P.S.: Somebody else living in Europe here? > As you see, I live in Dordrecht, Nederland, and there is another Dutchman, a few Swedes, a Finn, a Francaise and several English, and of course lots of Americans, and some Australians. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 14:30:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA10121 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:30:42 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA09730; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:38:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA27386 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:38:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from public.ndh.com (public.ndh.net [194.97.97.21]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA27357 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:38:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from Andrea (port1114.koeln.ndh.net [195.227.37.114]) by public.ndh.com (8.8.7/8.8.0) with ESMTP id UAA03695 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 20:38:07 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <369558F1.3934A02F@ndh.net> Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 02:01:38 +0100 From: Andrea Clef X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [de] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Medieval group X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Andrea Clef Hello everybody! Thank you for your nice welcome mails which I received! And there are even some "older" friends here ;-)! Ok, many of you asked me about the medieval reenactment group in which I`m active, it`s a local German one called "Düsseldorfer Lehnsritter". They do mainly tournaments on horseback of the Staufer-period in Germany, late 13th century. Everybody (of the men) portrays a knight that has really lived and fought at the battle of Worringen to free themselves from the strict laws of the archbishop of Cologne. This battle is well researched, so many names of the knights and their lives have been kept in the memory of historically interested people. Thanks for your interest! Many greetings, Diana _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 14:38:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA10149 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:38:30 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA20288; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 10:19:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA01255 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 10:18:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA01227 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 10:18:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p38.directcon.net [206.170.184.87]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA05185 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 09:14:18 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 09:14:18 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901121714.JAA05185@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: help with men's and women's German Ren Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson >> OK, at the risk of showing my ignorance, I *have* to ask: What's a charp?? >> > >Oh damn, I'm sorry. A typoe PLUS an ommitted word. I meant a sharp chisel. Aha! It SOUNDED like a chisel, so I assumed it was some specialized variety. After consulting four of my husband's books on exotic and archaic tools, I was baffled. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 14:42:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA10165 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:42:56 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA00444; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:30:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA12978 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:14:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA12948 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:14:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from test (ip203-34.cc.interlog.com [207.34.203.34]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA28343 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:13:57 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990111171404.00928a50@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:14:04 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: Color associations In-Reply-To: <369A3881.D6FB51DA@uvm.edu> References: <199901111626.IAA29171@smtp.pacifier.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings >1) has anyone come across proscriptions on wearing the color yellow, or >associations of that color with any particular class or group, in any >sumptuary laws between, let's say 1100 and 1600 for western europe? I *think* that jews were required to wear those strange hats in yellow. Couldn't tell you exactly when or where. Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 14:44:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA10175 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:44:05 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA00496; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:31:02 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA12980 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:14:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA12947 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:14:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from test (ip203-34.cc.interlog.com [207.34.203.34]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA28320 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:13:54 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990111171158.0092b100@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:11:58 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: Color associations In-Reply-To: <369A2816.6314FFD5@nash.tds.net> References: <199901111626.IAA29171@smtp.pacifier.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >Has anyone else heard of red striped stockings being >associated with prostitutes? I seem to remember reading a reference that said: in England in either the 13th or 14th century (can't remember which) prostitutes were required by law to wear red and white striped hoods as identification. > > By the way, another costume caveat I've heard is "don't wear yellow, > > especially yellow sleeves, because that's a prostitutes color." Where > > does that one come from? If I remember correctly I believe there was a late 15th or 16th century law in Venice pertaining to prositutes wearing yellow sleeves. Eve do you have any more info on this? Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 14:46:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA10190 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:46:15 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA12135; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:54:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA29857 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:53:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from post6.inre.asu.edu (post6.inre.asu.edu [129.219.110.87]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA29836 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:53:42 -0700 (MST) From: KATHLEEN.MAHER@asu.edu Received: from general2.asu.edu by asu.edu (PMDF V5.1-12 #24133) with ESMTP id <01J6GCRY41428WYPAN@asu.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:54:26 MST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by general2.asu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA17780 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:53:33 -0700 (MST) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:53:32 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: H-COST: requesting suggestions for a wedding dress In-reply-to: <19990112191348.5980.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Sender: innana@general2.asu.edu To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: KATHLEEN.MAHER@asu.edu First of all, Congratulations! Keeping your body type in mind, I would suggest late Tudor/early Elizabethian, Italian Renn or German Renn. On Tue, 12 Jan 1999, Crystal Webb wrote: > > -Poster: "Crystal Webb" > > Hello, > > I'm getting married this summer (*gasp!*) and I would really like to > have a dress that I could use again. My future husband will be in Black > Tails, top hat, the whole shebang. I'd like something that would look > really good with this. I think Edwardian would look nice, but I'm more > interested in something pre 1700. > > I was wondering if any of you have suggestions? > > Oh yeah, my body type is round and busty. > > Thanks in advance, > Crystal > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 14:48:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA10201 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:47:57 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA12513; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:56:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA00312 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:55:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA00298 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:55:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA10156 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:55:28 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <369BA8CA.36EDECA4@serv.net> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:55:54 -0800 From: Merouda the True X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: H-COST: Costume Contest Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Merouda the True For those of you who are wondering, I *did* enter the Costume Contest, they were pleased with my documentation, and I think they liked the gown too. I had headdress and undergarments and that was a plus. However, the results have not been tallied yet (I think that's what's up) and will not be announced until the Kingdom newsletter comes out. Wah! So, I have no idea how I did. I can say that there was *stiff* competition. Lots of lovely entries. Cynthia -- Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 14:48:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA10211 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:48:45 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA01729; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:39:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA16476 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:35:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from proxy3.ba.best.com (root@proxy3.ba.best.com [206.184.139.14]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA16454 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:35:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from best.com (lavolta.vip.best.com [206.86.95.234]) by proxy3.ba.best.com (8.9.1/8.9.0/best.out) with ESMTP id KAA27818 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 10:35:03 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <369B93B7.FB3F0835@best.com> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 10:25:59 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historic Costume Mailing List Subject: H-COST: Il Libro del Sarto Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lavolta Press Well, I already bought the English translation of Il Libro del Sarto elsewhere. Meanwhile I had contacted the Italian publisher, who does still have copies, and this is what they said: > > along with your fax dated 18/12/98, I am glad to inform you that the price > for the book in reference is Lit. 300.000 (we just have the Italian edition, > no other languages commentary is available) and we can send it to you by > mail at Lit. 50.000. > As for the payment, we accept VISA, MASTERCARD, CARTASI credit cards. > Please let me know how you want to proceed. > Best wishes > Antonella Vincenzi Fran Grimble ---------------------------------------------- Visit our web sites! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.best.com/~lavolta/index.htm Vintage and historic dance http://www.best.com/~lavolta/dance/index.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 14:50:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA10227 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:50:00 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA17491; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 09:59:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA27852 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 09:59:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from m16.boston.juno.com (m16.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.192]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA27819 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 09:58:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m16.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id DYSDLXDX; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:58:21 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: Colours Message-ID: <19990112.084309.4783.1.cley@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-7,9-72 From: cley@juno.com (cynthia j ley) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:58:21 EST Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: cley@juno.com (cynthia j ley) Look through any of Jean de Berry's Books of Hours (14th c.) You'll see pinks unrivaled even today, shown on costumes, flora and fauna. Get a good repro, not the cheap ones. The Brazilier editions are stunning. Arlys On Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:16:01 -0500 (EST) Robin Netherton writes: > >-Poster: Robin Netherton > > >Someone wrote: >> >I keep hearing the one about pink not being period, but I never >believed >> >that one... > >Oddly, I've heard this in regard to paints as well as dyes! Evidently >from >people who haven't looked at very many primary sources -- pink is >common >in medieval manuscripts, in many wonderful shades, and achievable in a >variety of ways. > >I wonder if this urban myth originated with someone misunderstanding >the >quite accurate statement that the *word* "pink" is not medieval (or >Elizabethan). Rather, the word is period, but not as a color name. The >OED >(I just checked) has nine different main headers for pink, and many >more >sub-meanings. The first citation for a color name meaning "light red" >is >1681 (and you can figure it was in use slightly before that, but only >slightly). Oddly, the same word was defined as a "yellowish-green" >pigment >starting a bit earlier in the 1600s. (The citations are interesting >worth >reading.) > >The OED cites the origins of the color-name use as "obscure." One >theory >I've heard is that it came from the the name of certain flowers known >as >"pinks" that happened to be that color. The flowers, in turn, may have >drawn their name because their ruffled edges resembled the small >slashes >on "pinked" garments. The OED is dubious about this -- it cites a >pre-1600 >meaning of "pinking" as putting decorative holes or eyelets in fabric, >but >not as edge-slashing till *much* later. Funny, I always assumed that >the >Elizabethans called that fringy stuff "pinking." I would have to delve >deeper on that one to see if the OED missed some references that were >common in tailor's usage and wardrobe accounts. But the OED doesn't >miss >much. > >Oops, sorry, I digressed. Anyway, I can see someone teaching in, say, >a >poetry-writing class that "pink" is "not period," and that statement >getting taken out of context and mistakenly applied to clothing or >painting. > >--Robin, who really should be doing work and not reading this list > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 14:59:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA10296 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:59:24 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA13976; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:07:34 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA02036 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:06:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA02026 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:06:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from test (ip203-158.cc.interlog.com [207.34.203.158]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA27641 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:06:29 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990112151259.0093f100@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:12:59 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_H-COST:_Hello,_I=B4m_new?= In-Reply-To: <199901121929.UAA11295@worldonline.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id OAA10296 Status: O -Poster: Danielle Nunn Welcome Diana, >>I'm not a costume artist myself ( at least I haven`t tried yet...) but >>I'm very interested in the topic of costume history. Well, you've certainly come to the right place. ;) >>My name's Diana, I`m 21 years old and live in Cologne, Germany. Do you by any chance have information on the the Waffen und Kostümkunde publication? I've been trying to get my hands on some back issues. >>I love reenactment and I`m active in medieval and baroque groups here >>in Europe. Do you do 16th century stuff too? >As you see, I live in Dordrecht, Nederland, and there is another Dutchman, >a few Swedes, a Finn, a Francaise and several English, and of course lots >of Americans, and some Australians. Henk, you're forgetting us Canadians! Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 15:07:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA10332 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:07:54 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA15492; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:16:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA03848 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:15:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net (smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net [199.45.39.157]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA03828 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:15:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from tymeportal.com (client196-126-1.bellatlantic.net [151.196.126.1]) by smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA15617 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:16:47 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <369BAD40.47202E0@tymeportal.com> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:14:56 -0500 From: Anah X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Hello, =?iso-8859-1?Q?I=B4m?= new References: <3.0.1.32.19990112151259.0093f100@mail.interlog.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Anah I have to vouch for diana's sources. She's shared several things with me, and I am working on getting it all scanned (I scanned the castle she sent me and a picture of herself in garb so far) the computer has been limping along being as the upgrade didn't go well AT ALL..(among everything else) And it's set adding all of the wonderful information she has sent to me back. (as far as adding it to the webpage) INCREDIBLE artwork she has sent me! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 15:32:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA10416 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:32:55 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA18388; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:35:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA07288 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:34:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo23.mx.aol.com (imo23.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.67]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA07270 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:34:39 -0700 (MST) From: AliaClaire@aol.com Received: from AliaClaire@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id IAXRa07010 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:25:56 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <5a77445d.369bafd4@aol.com> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:25:56 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Shakespeare in Love Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows sub 214 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: AliaClaire@aol.com I loved this movie...it was so nice to see an intelligent romantic comedy! My theatre teacher is going to make us all sit through it again...not that I mind. And Judi Dench is my hero. As for costumes, I'm nowhere near an expert in that time period, but I did notice a few things. First, the dress Viola wears when she is first presented to the queen looks slightly later- the head dress looks to me more of the 1620, and some of her dresses look a little early- the first one, at the play, has the square neckline I associate with earlier Elizabethian- correct me if I'm wrong, please. The one thing that I noticed rather blatently is her wedding dress. It was a _beautiful_ dress unto itself, but the waist (rounded except for a rounded point in front) is much later then 1593. In Jane Ashelford's _Art of Dress_ (I just got it for Christmas...excellent book!) on page 96 there is an ivory origional bodice in that same shape. It is clearly dated from the 1660s, and I can't find anything earlier in any of my other books. All of the pointed bodices I can see in Elizabethian pictures show a much sharper point. Queen Elizabeth's dresses, however, looked magnificant to me! -Alison Stacy AliaClaire@aol.com Canton, Ohio _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 15:39:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA10448 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:39:34 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA19324; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:42:19 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA08586 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:41:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from public.ndh.com (public.ndh.net [194.97.97.21]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA08569 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:41:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from Andrea (port047.koeln.ndh.net [195.94.92.47]) by public.ndh.com (8.8.7/8.8.0) with ESMTP id VAA15416 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 21:41:35 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <3695627A.1635567D@ndh.net> Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 02:42:21 +0100 From: Andrea Clef X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [de] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: book publication X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Andrea Clef Hello Danielle! >Do you by any chance have information on the the Waffen und Kostümkunde publication? I've been trying to get my hands on some back issues. There has been a very new publication of a book called "Kleidung und Waffen der Früh- und Hochgotik 1150-1250" (costume and weapons of the early ang high Gothic period) by Ulrich Lehnart It`s the most precise book about clothing of that period I know so far with detailed descriptions of sewing techniques and fabrics. There are also some patterns in it. So far it was only published in German. Maybe it uses infos from an older edition, if you meant a different one. Do you know the author? >Do you do 16th century stuff too? So far not, but as I know myself, I end up doing that as well ;-)... I simply have too many interests, that`s hard to cope with sometimes, believe me! I love Tudor style dresses, I prefer them to the German slashed gowns but I also have some pics of these. Greetings, Diana P.S. : Thanks for so much praise, Anah, I hope I can fulfill everyone`s expectations now ;-)! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 15:42:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA10461 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:42:13 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA20262; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:50:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA09934 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:49:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.cho.org (mail.cho.org [209.77.137.36]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id NAA09926 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:49:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35]) by mail.cho.org; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:49:09 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: ldownward@198.211.240.120 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <5a77445d.369bafd4@aol.com> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:53:29 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lynn Downward Subject: Re: H-COST: Shakespeare in Love Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lynn Downward >-Poster: AliaClaire@aol.com wrote: > >I loved this movie...it was so nice to see an intelligent romantic comedy! My >theatre teacher is going to make us all sit through it again...not that I >mind. And Judi Dench is my hero. >SNIP all the On-topic stuff to go to the off-topic sentence> I recently saw a snippet of an interview of Lady Judi. She was, of course, talking about SiL. She said, "And you know what we call Shakespeare in our house . . . the man who pays the rent." Lynn Downward _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 15:43:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA10465 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:42:57 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA20386; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:50:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA09985 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:49:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from dillinger.io.com (ches@dillinger.io.com [199.170.88.11]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA09958 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:49:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (ches@localhost) by dillinger.io.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA27453 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:49:52 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: dillinger.io.com: ches owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:49:51 -0600 (CST) From: ches To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Waffen und Kostmkunde In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990112151259.0093f100@mail.interlog.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id PAA10465 Status: O -Poster: ches I have several different articles at home in my files. Copies from Libraries that they sold me. The way I did it was through my local library. I searched for the magazine then ordered the aritcles. It was cheaper than making the copies myself! Ches On Tue, 12 Jan 1999, Danielle Nunn wrote: > Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:12:59 -0500 > From: Danielle Nunn > Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: [iso-8859-1] Re: H-COST: Hello, I´m new > > > -Poster: Danielle Nunn > > Do you by any chance have information on the the Waffen und Kostümkunde > publication? I've been trying to get my hands on some back issues. > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 15:55:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA10512 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:55:43 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA21933; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:02:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA12109 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:02:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net [199.45.39.156]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA12085 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:01:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from tymeportal.com (client196-126-89.bellatlantic.net [151.196.126.89]) by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA13685 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:01:51 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <369BB82E.4C320B1A@tymeportal.com> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:01:34 -0500 From: Anah X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: book publication References: <3695627A.1635567D@ndh.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Anah lol just wait til I post the url when it's all done, I hope yu like the stone jpg I sent you, I am working on adjusting it to something that will do the page justice... Andrea Clef wrote: > > -Poster: Andrea Clef > > Hello Danielle! > > >Do you by any chance have information on the the Waffen und Kostümkunde > > publication? I've been trying to get my hands on some back issues. > > There has been a very new publication of a book called "Kleidung und > Waffen der > Früh- und Hochgotik 1150-1250" (costume and weapons of the early ang > high > Gothic period) by Ulrich Lehnart > It`s the most precise book about clothing of that period I know so far > with detailed > descriptions of sewing techniques and fabrics. > There are also some patterns in it. > So far it was only published in German. > > Maybe it uses infos from an older edition, if you meant a different one. > > Do you know the author? > > >Do you do 16th century stuff too? > > So far not, but as I know myself, I end up doing that as well ;-)... > I simply have too many interests, that`s hard to cope with sometimes, > believe me! > I love Tudor style dresses, I prefer them to the German slashed gowns > but I also > have some pics of these. > > Greetings, > Diana > > P.S. : Thanks for so much praise, Anah, I hope I can fulfill everyone`s > expectations > now ;-)! > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 16:03:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA10557 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:03:55 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA23061; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:12:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA13963 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:11:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA13926; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:11:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (pilot [129.127.36.15]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id HAA21985; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 07:41:24 +1030 (CST) Received: by pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.61+IDA+MU/UA-5.23) id AA29693; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 07:41:23 +1030 Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 07:41:22 +1030 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant X-Sender: csmart@pilot To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: requesting suggestions for a wedding dress In-Reply-To: <19990112191348.5980.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Tue, 12 Jan 1999, Crystal Webb wrote: > > -Poster: "Crystal Webb" > > Hello, > > I'm getting married this summer (*gasp!*) and I would really like to > have a dress that I could use again. My future husband will be in Black > Tails, top hat, the whole shebang. I'd like something that would look > really good with this. I think Edwardian would look nice, but I'm more > interested in something pre 1700. > > I was wondering if any of you have suggestions? > Congratulations *grin* If you are going to do what I did, and have a white dress with the plan to dye it for use after, be very careful to check that the fabric will dye. Acetate is bad..... :-( ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 16:05:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA10567 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:05:26 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA23309; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:13:32 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA14172 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:12:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from proxy3.ba.best.com (root@proxy3.ba.best.com [206.184.139.14]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA14149 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:12:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from best.com (lavolta.vip.best.com [206.86.95.234]) by proxy3.ba.best.com (8.9.1/8.9.0/best.out) with ESMTP id NAA20759 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:10:02 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <369BB809.BE5A2727@best.com> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:00:57 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: book publication References: <3695627A.1635567D@ndh.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lavolta Press > There has been a very new publication of a book called "Kleidung und > Waffen der > Früh- und Hochgotik 1150-1250" (costume and weapons of the early ang > high > Gothic period) by Ulrich Lehnart > It`s the most precise book about clothing of that period I know so far > with detailed > descriptions of sewing techniques and fabrics. > There are also some patterns in it. > So far it was only published in German. > Who is the publisher? Did they put their address in the book? If so what is it? And what is the ISBN? Do you know how an American can buy a copy? Thanks for any info, Fran Grimble ---------------------------------------------- Visit our web sites! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.best.com/~lavolta/index.htm Vintage and historic dance http://www.best.com/~lavolta/dance/index.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 16:23:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA10640 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:23:13 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA26058; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:30:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA17906 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:29:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from komarr.local.thibault.org (mg134-121.ricochet.net [204.179.134.121]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA17877 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:29:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from komarr.local.thibault.org (komarr.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.17]) by komarr.local.thibault.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA29725 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:33:01 -0800 Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:33:01 -0800 (PST) From: Cynthia Virtue X-Sender: cvirtue@komarr.local.thibault.org To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Pigments, dyes, and the accuracy of paintings (was: color question) In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990112111812.00b9f6a0@pop.slip.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Cynthia Virtue Yes, the Devonshire Hunting Tapestries are original medieval tapestryies from about 1420 or so. They're in the V&A. They have *wonderful* costume detail in 3 out of the 4 of them -- if you have the "Medieval Lovers" book of days, the couple in houps on horeseback on June or July 1 is from one of them. Unfortunately, like the Roses tapestries, images of them are very hard to come by. One of the figures is even a woman with a stuffed roll hat, from the back, so that you can see that the liripipe starts as a cone shape from inside the roll, just like if it were a rolled up hood like the men. I went to the V&A print library and ordered my own copies of photos of them, but alas, that's only good for local folks to see. I'm pretty sure the thing I signed promised I'd never distribute them without permission (ie, no scanning, etc.) but perhaps I'll check sometime soon. -- Cynthia Virtue Virtue is her own reward. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 16:35:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA10680 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:35:58 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA28359; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:44:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA20060 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:43:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.66]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA20025 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:43:26 -0700 (MST) From: SNSpies@aol.com Received: from SNSpies@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id HPGIa01433 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:42:44 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <8fe1edd9.369bc1d4@aol.com> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:42:44 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Colours Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: SNSpies@aol.com Cindy, you have a good point here: << Two years ago the ChicagoInst. of Art had a show of ecclisiastic garments, including many from the 1400s. One that I recall strongly was dark pink (fairly intense, but not flourescent!) with quarter-sized metalic gold polka dots on it. Not at all what one would think of for this time period, but there it was, right in front of me. I believe it was heavy silk. >> >From my research on brocaded tabletwoven bands, I can tell you that the silks could be dyed virtually any shade you can imagine. It is the wools and linens that have a more limited repetoire. Nancy _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 16:40:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA10709 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:40:33 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA28916; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:48:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA20736 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:47:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (smtp.email.msn.com [207.68.143.160]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA20729 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:47:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.23.92 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:46:46 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: ethnic costume resource books Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:49:09 -0500 Message-ID: <000501be3e75$a88d97a0$551fffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <369B9C9E.ADD6BAEE@earthlink.net> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" The American Museum of Natural History has the biggest collection of ethnic costume in this part of the world, and they did publish a book about 20 years back which was wonderful. Lots of photos and sketches, but absolutely no pattern layouts. This is an interest of mine, and I don't know anything better than Cut My Cote and Tilke's 1922 book. At a mere $100, by the way, the very rare Tilke book is an absolute steal, in my opinion. The recent book called Make Your Own Japanese Clothes by John Marshall has good layouts and detail instructions for custom cutting a number of Japanese coats, jackets, and pants to size. It's available at www.Amazon.com, list $25 printed on the book, but they often have things for less. The Moghul stuff is beginning to show up as antiques on a number of websites, and it's fascinating. I found this an 18th c. Tibetan "chuba", a Chinese silk brocade robe cut in the Tibetan style at http://www.zeestone.com/textiles.htm.Tibetan with similar embroidery motifs, but at a far bigger scale, as the standard white linen woman's jacket with polychrome embroidery of 17th Century England. I suspect the Chinese brocade is an older style design, and the English jacket is a copy of the motif, but that's only conjecture on my part. The Topkapi Palace Museum in Istanbul, Turkey WebPages have a half-dozen or more sultan's caftans on the Web too at : http://www.ee.bilkent.edu.tr/~history/topkapi.html. They have over 2000 sultan's garments in their collection, but unfortunately display but a tiny fraction of them on the Web and at the museum. I have a few pretty poor, but interesting .jpgs I snapped when I was at the museum, which I can e-mail you if you wish. They won't show any construction details, as the light was dim and I used no tripod or flash, but they do convey the patterns on the caftans nicely enough to replicate them in applique (the originals are woven, not appliqued, and the fabrics are no longer made). Hope H.Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Christina Conklin Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 1999 2:04 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: ethnic costume resource books -Poster: Christina Conklin First posting to this group . . . I am interested in creating historic ethnic costumes, like 16th c. Mughal robes, traditional Turkish jackets, ceremonial Korean gowns and the like. I have the little book Cut My Cote (long out of print) and am looking at buying Max Tilke's 1922 book on Oriental Costumes. But it costs over $100 (also long OOP), and the on-line version at Univ of Indiana just isn't the same. Is this the best book to get, or are there other resources people would recommend? I'm interested in all parts of the world, but particularly Asia, in the largest sense of that word. Also are there others out there doing this sort of thing, either for fun or profit? Any purveyors or web sites you all would recommend?? Many thanks, Christy Conklin ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 16:54:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA10756 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:54:31 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA26288; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:31:28 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA18112 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:30:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from dgs.dgsys.com (robin@dgs.dgsys.com [204.97.64.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA18065 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:30:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by dgs.dgsys.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA29211 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:30:37 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: dgs.dgsys.com: robin owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:30:37 -0500 (EST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List Subject: H-COST: Source on medieval colors Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Robin Netherton Serendipitously, a librarian friend of mine just passed me this title. He says it's cataloged as "middle ages," and otherwise this is all I know about it. But it sounds somewhat connected to our discussion. Perhaps of interest to someone. P. J. Gibbs, Berberine and huangbo: ancient colorants and dyes (London: British Library, 1997). --Robin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 18:15:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA11057 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 18:15:19 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA12525; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:23:14 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA01747 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:45:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from bigred.unl.edu (bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA01310 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:43:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (00217146@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA32380 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:25:03 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:25:03 -0600 (CST) From: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: H-COST: Costume Contest In-Reply-To: <369BA8CA.36EDECA4@serv.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> Are you going to post a picture somewhere where we can see it? On Tue, 12 Jan 1999, Merouda the True wrote: > > -Poster: Merouda the True > > For those of you who are wondering, I *did* enter the Costume Contest, > they were pleased with my documentation, and I think they liked the > gown too. I had headdress and undergarments and that was a plus. > > However, the results have not been tallied yet (I think that's what's > up) and will not be announced until the Kingdom newsletter comes out. > Wah! So, I have no idea how I did. I can say that there was *stiff* > competition. Lots of lovely entries. > > Cynthia > > -- > Merouda the True of Beaumaris > Barony of Madrone > Kingdom of An Tir > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 18:20:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA11076 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 18:20:25 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA13051; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:28:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA16001 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:27:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA15971 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:27:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA10927 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:27:24 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <369BDA76.BE9A466B@serv.net> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:27:50 -0800 From: Merouda the True X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Costume Contest etc... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Merouda the True > Are you going to post a picture somewhere where we can see it? What I'll probably have to do is send it to someone to put on their web site. Or something. Hmmmm, I'm starting to acquire some pictures and stuff. Wonder if I should consider a website. Does h-costume have a web site? And will someone please tell me about how to reach archives? A list web site would be a great place to post pics of stuff we do. I just don't know if I have the capabilities. Cynthia -- Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 18:28:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA11104 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 18:28:58 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA13942; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:37:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA17549 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:36:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from sd.znet.com (sd.znet.com [207.167.64.5]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA17509 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:36:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.167.66.53] (sdts10-53.znet.net [207.167.66.53]) by sd.znet.com (8.9.2/8.9.2/jjb-sd) with ESMTP id PAA02465 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:36:23 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:36:23 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <199901121635.IAA02515@smtp.pacifier.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Julie Adams Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Colours Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Julie Adams There are plenty of washed out pinks on peasants and middle class women throughout the period. And since some are shown in the same pictures with people wearing brighter pinks and reds, my assumption would be that pink is period. Reds fade so easily anyway... _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 19:00:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA11256 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 19:00:05 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA17181; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 17:07:59 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA02601 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 17:07:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from sight.vcn.com (sight.vcn.com [208.162.240.3]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA02585 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 17:07:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from unknown (vision186.vcn.com [208.162.240.209]) by sight.vcn.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 07DA9F51B7; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 17:07:04 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <369BDA76.BE9A466B@serv.net> References: Conversation with last message <369BDA76.BE9A466B@serv.net> Priority: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Frank&Tracy Thallas JR" Subject: Re: H-COST: Costume Contest etc... Date: Tue, 12 Jan 99 18:09:15 PST Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id TAA11256 Status: O -Poster: "Frank&Tracy Thallas JR" This is an excellent idea..... or perhaps a section in the Costume Gallery for us? All Health! Liadain ---------- > > -Poster: Merouda the True > > > Are you going to post a picture somewhere where we can see it? > > What I'll probably have to do is send it to someone to put on their web > site. Or something. Hmmmm, I'm starting to acquire some pictures and > stuff. Wonder if I should consider a website. > > Does h-costume have a web site? And will someone please tell me about how > to reach archives? > A list web site would be a great place to post pics of stuff we do. I just > don't know if I have the capabilities. > > Cynthia > > -- > Merouda the True of Beaumaris > Barony of Madrone > Kingdom of An Tir > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 19:09:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA11308 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 19:09:20 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA18176; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 17:17:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA04072 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 17:16:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from jezebel.newdream.net (root@jezebel.newdream.net [207.155.127.148]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA04045 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 17:16:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from acc-1.imag.net (acc-1.imag.net [204.244.221.221]) by jezebel.newdream.net (8.8.8/8.8.8/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id QAA27945 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:16:50 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990112161736.006bfdd0@silverspin.net> X-Sender: karla@silverspin.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:17:36 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Karla Sexsmith Subject: Re: H-COST: Costume Contest etc... In-Reply-To: <369BDA76.BE9A466B@serv.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Karla Sexsmith >> Are you going to post a picture somewhere where we can see it? > >What I'll probably have to do is send it to someone to put on their web >site. Or something. Hmmmm, I'm starting to acquire some pictures and >stuff. Wonder if I should consider a website. > >Does h-costume have a web site? And will someone please tell me about how >to reach archives? >A list web site would be a great place to post pics of stuff we do. I just >don't know if I have the capabilities. I would be willing to do something like this... I have the server space, I can make the pages, I even have the capability to scan stuff for people if they can't do it themselves. Karla ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Karla Sexsmith ~ karla@silverspin.net http://www.silverspin.net ICQ#916055 (work) or 1595696 (home) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 20:01:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA11492 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 20:01:03 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA23357; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 18:09:24 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA10846 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 18:08:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from mx.serv.net (mx.serv.net [205.153.153.234]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA10835 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 18:08:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from gia-g (dialup703.serv.net [207.207.65.67]) by mx.serv.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA02304 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 17:08:29 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <001001be3e91$b7dc4a00$4341cfcf@gia-g> From: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" To: Subject: H-COST: FO report Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 17:11:12 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" Greetings, list! I recently did a elizabethan for my 3 yr old that I am glad to say was one of the winners of the "Well Dressed Child" contest at Twelfth Night, this last weekend. I made it out of a black silk (well, I got the silk cheap...) with a pansy motif woven in damask style. Using one of the dresses in QEWU as a guide, I did the sleeves out of white taffeta with black flocking. The sleeves were puffy at the head and fitted at the wrist. Also I had hanging sleeves, lined with the white taffeta. The hanging sleeves hung to the hem. I hand stitched the gold trim around the edges of the hanging sleeves and on the front of the gown (diagonally from neckline corners to waist point). The bodice of the gown is fully lined and interlined with horsehair interfacing. If I hadn't taken ill I would had time to do a proper corset and farthingale for her. Those will be next. I also did cartridge pleating for the first time and could have shot myself for not doing it before! It's easy and I found the drape of the skirt to be just what I was hoping it would do. I plan on doing it on all my Italian rens from now on, too! The chemise I gathered the fullness of the neckline and sleeves into a band with a pleated ruffle. I handstitched the band onto the body of the chemise and liked doing that as well. I found I was able to control the gathering much better than doing by machine. I also handstitched the ties into the bands. I cheated and used my serger for the long seam of the skirt. The next elizabethan I plan to make I will do a french seam on the skirt. Gia/Giacinta costuming nut _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 21:22:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA11851 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 21:22:44 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA02567; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 19:31:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA19975 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 19:30:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [207.172.3.234]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA19946 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 19:30:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from erols.com (207-172-64-175.s175.tnt17.brd.erols.com [207.172.64.175]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA00994 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 21:30:01 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <369C055E.BA63C42F@erols.com> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 21:30:54 -0500 From: "David S. Mallinak" Organization: Red Dragon Bridge Enterprizes X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Spanish costumes References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "David S. Mallinak" > From: Phil and Karan Foster < phil@globeco.net > > > I am interested in the clothing of Scotland around the 1350s. Can you > maybe give me a direction to look. Book titles would be helpful. > Thank you and have a good week. The best for the Highland area of Scotland, if you can find it, is "Old Highland Dress" H. F. McClintock. Dundalgan Press, Ltd. Dundalk 1943, 1949, 1950. David S Mallinak _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 21:58:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA12001 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 21:58:38 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA06020; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 20:07:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA23829 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 20:06:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.85]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA23819 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 20:06:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip27.an3-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.14.27]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA23162 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 19:06:07 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <369C003E.10A9FB13@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 22:09:04 -0400 From: Laurel Wilson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03C-NSCP (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST:Yellow/prostitutes/Jews etc References: <001c01be3dc0$2d3adc80$c3ef92d1@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Laurel Wilson I'm sorry that I don't remember the exact uses of the different colors and patterns, but there is information on the Italian sumptuary laws about prostitutes, including the colors which they were forced to wear, and also on those which applied to Jews, in: Diane Owen Hughes "Sumptuary Laws and Social Relations in Renaissance Italy." In a book called *Disputes and Settlements*, ed. by John Bossy Cambridge University Press, 1983 Diane Owen Hughes "Distinguishing Signs: Ear Rings, Jews and Franciscan Rhetoric in the Italian Renaissance City." In the journal *Past and Present*, no. 112, 1986. This is mostly about distinguishing signs for Jews, concentrating on jewelry but mentioning other things as well. James Brundage "Sumptuary Laws and Prostitution in Late Medieval Italy" Journal of Medieval History, vol. 13 no. 4 (1987) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 22:11:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA12050 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 22:11:43 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA07503; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 20:20:14 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA25031 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 20:19:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from magpie.prod.itd.earthlink.net (magpie.prod.itd.earthlink.net [209.178.63.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA25024 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 20:19:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from alt1 (sdn-ar-001dcwashP116.dialsprint.net [168.191.20.76]) by magpie.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA11663 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 19:19:14 -0800 (PST) From: "Allison Thurman" To: Subject: H-COST: re: mary magdalene Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 22:21:37 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2212 (4.71.2419.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.0810.800 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Allison Thurman" > Then where did the story in the Bible come from if she wasnt a prostitute? > Why were they trying to stone her to death and why did Jesus tell her to > go and sin no more, or whatever it was? if i remember correctly she was initially referred to as "the woman out of whom 7 devils were cast" - ie, perhaps she worshipped a cult and would therefore be viewed by jesus and his apostles as a sinner - this was later reinterpreted to mean that she was a prostitute. however, as mentioned previously any of several marys mentioned in the new testament could have been the same person. (i wont go further, as this is off topic, but if anyone wants documentation email me privately and i'll scratch it up.) > > Sylvia R allison _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From robin@dgsys.com Tue Jan 12 22:15:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from dgs.dgsys.com (dgs.dgsys.com [204.97.64.1]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA12067 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 22:15:07 -0500 Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by dgs.dgsys.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA04289 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 22:23:20 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: dgs.dgsys.com: robin owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 22:23:20 -0500 (EST) From: Robin Netherton To: Eric Praetzel Subject: H-cost archives In-Reply-To: <199811201335.IAA08554@sca.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O Just wanted to thank you for the wonderful service you've provided with the searchable archives. Even though they're just the early ones -- the search function is marvelous, and the posts are just not accessible elsewhere. I look forward to perhaps seeing you add the new archives from the list's current site. They're a pain to use through the conventional route, because they're indexed only by digest number. Thanks again for your willingness to share these records. --Robin From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 22:19:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA12087 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 22:19:30 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA08497; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 20:28:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA25655 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 20:27:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from beaver.slip.net (beaver.slip.net [207.171.193.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA25647 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 20:27:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.230.155] (helo=default) by beaver.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 100GxT-00011O-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 19:27:03 -0800 X-Sender: cjcannon@mail.slip.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 19:27:34 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: book publication In-Reply-To: <369BB82E.4C320B1A@tymeportal.com> References: <3695627A.1635567D@ndh.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 04:01 PM 1/12/99 -0500, you wrote: > >-Poster: Anah > >lol just wait til I post the url when it's all done, I hope yu like the >stone jpg I sent you, I am working on adjusting it to something that >will do the page justice... > You caught my interest...what's the site going to be? Thanks. Carol / Gra/inne _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 23:26:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA12338 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 23:26:13 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA15424; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 21:34:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA03988 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 21:33:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp3.erols.com (smtp3.erols.com [207.172.3.236]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA03974 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 21:33:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from s0peladn (207-172-86-236.s236.tnt6.rcm.erols.com [207.172.86.236]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA05212 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 23:33:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000101be3ead$f8239b60$ec56accf@s0peladn> From: "Penny E. Ladnier" To: "costume newsgroup" Subject: H-COST: Incas Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 23:34:05 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Penny E. Ladnier" I just watched a really good video on the Inca civilization. It was originally aired on PBS in 1980, and produced by the BBC. It is titled Incas (PBS Video 1061). They briefly touched upon the importance of clothing in their culture. One of the sources credited was The Textile Museum. The video talked of a person in the 1500's who wrote over 1200 letters about the society including detailed illustrations of the people with various occupations in the civilization. Some illustrations are shown on the video. Now for my questions: 1. Does anyone have an idea which Textile Museum they would be crediting? Two groups of historians were shown in the video, researching two different forts, a British group and the Museum of American History. But the credits stated plainly, The Textile Museum. 2. Are some of these letters available in publication or on the web for people to study? These letters seem like a great find. I am interested in comparing the costumes within the culture. 3. Why is this civilization not touched on more in history classes? The Incas were very advanced in architecture, agriculture, and textile develop. I remember in grade school the Incas was touched upon briefly (for the gold and European invasion). In my art history courses, one professor showed two slides of their housing. In my costume history classes the Incas were never covered. Enough questions for the night... Penny (who is always learning something new) http://www.costumegallery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 23:48:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA12410 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 23:48:21 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA17716; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 21:56:49 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA06360 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 21:55:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp3.erols.com (smtp3.erols.com [207.172.3.236]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA06346 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 21:55:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from s0peladn (207-172-86-236.s236.tnt6.rcm.erols.com [207.172.86.236]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA13437 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 23:55:46 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000101be3eb1$08492f20$ec56accf@s0peladn> From: "Penny E. Ladnier" To: "costume newsgroup" Subject: H-COST: Codpiece giggle Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 23:56:00 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Penny E. Ladnier" I have to giggle at this letter I received tonight via my website. I wrote the lady back and explained what a codpiece was. But I thought you all would enjoy reading the letter. Imagine yourself in this mother's position. The letter.... Hello: my 13 year old daughter is very curios about the wedding costume in the movie, "Shakespeare in love." The question: why does the man's costume has an accessory that looks like a penis? What is the symbolic meaning of it? could you let her know? Back to Penny... what happened to the website about codpieces??? I used to link to it but it disappeared about a year ago. Later... a Giggling Gal _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 23:54:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA12433 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 23:54:38 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA18367; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 22:03:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA07134 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 22:02:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA07121 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 22:02:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from test (ip203-8.cc.interlog.com [207.34.203.8]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id AAA09404 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 00:02:06 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990112220944.00947b60@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 22:09:44 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: book publication In-Reply-To: <3695627A.1635567D@ndh.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id XAA12433 Status: O -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >>Do you by any chance have information on the the Waffen und Kostümkunde > >publication? I've been trying to get my hands on some back issues. >There has been a very new publication of a book called "Kleidung und >Waffen der >Früh- und Hochgotik 1150-1250" (costume and weapons of the early ang >high >Gothic period) by Ulrich Lehnart >It`s the most precise book about clothing of that period I know so far >with detailed >descriptions of sewing techniques and fabrics. >There are also some patterns in it. >So far it was only published in German. Are there good photos/pictures in it? If the pictures are good enough I'd get it even though I can't read German. Do you have an ISBN number for it? >Maybe it uses infos from an older edition, if you meant a different one. >Do you know the author? It is actually, a periodical so there is not an "author" per say. However, I've only seen them once and didn't take note of an editor. Frankly, I'm not sure I could have figured it out from the German. >So far not, but as I know myself, I end up doing that as well ;-)... >I simply have too many interests, that`s hard to cope with sometimes, >believe me! >I love Tudor style dresses, I prefer them to the German slashed gowns >but I also >have some pics of these. You sound like a woman after my own heart! Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 23:54:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA12434 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 23:54:38 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA18385; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 22:03:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA07145 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 22:02:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA07115 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 22:02:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from test (ip203-8.cc.interlog.com [207.34.203.8]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id AAA09378 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 00:02:04 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990113000945.00946410@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 00:09:45 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: Shakespeare in Love In-Reply-To: <5a77445d.369bafd4@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >As for costumes, I'm nowhere near an expert in that time period, but I did >notice a few things. First, the dress Viola wears when she is first presented >to the queen looks slightly later- the head dress looks to me more of the >1620, and some of her dresses look a little early- the first one, at the play, >has the square neckline I associate with earlier Elizabethian- correct me if >I'm wrong, please. I really need to see it again to notice the details. >The one thing that I noticed rather blatently is her wedding dress. It was a >_beautiful_ dress unto itself, but the waist (rounded except for a rounded >point in front) is much later then 1593. In Jane Ashelford's _Art of Dress_ (I >just got it for Christmas...excellent book!) on page 96 there is an ivory >origional bodice in that same shape. It is clearly dated from the 1660s, and I >can't find anything earlier in any of my other books. All of the pointed >bodices I can see in Elizabethian pictures show a much sharper point. Although, I was disappointed in the costuming (the way people were raving I was expecting it to be better) but I digress. If you look at Alcega (1580s) the points of the bodices are quite rounded. >Queen Elizabeth's dresses, however, looked magnificant to me! But what was that gold spikey thing around her neck? I've never seen the like, or the the peacock feather "ruff". Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 23:54:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA12440 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 23:54:48 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA18414; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 22:03:24 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA07148 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 22:02:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA07135 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 22:02:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from test (ip203-8.cc.interlog.com [207.34.203.8]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id AAA09428 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 00:02:10 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990112221609.009473c0@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 22:16:09 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: RE: H-COST: ethnic costume resource books In-Reply-To: <000501be3e75$a88d97a0$551fffd0@default> References: <369B9C9E.ADD6BAEE@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >The Topkapi Palace Museum in Istanbul, Turkey WebPages have >a half-dozen or more sultan's caftans on the Web too at : >http://www.ee.bilkent.edu.tr/~history/topkapi.html. They >have over 2000 sultan's garments in their collection, but >unfortunately display but a tiny fraction of them on the Web >and at the museum. I have a few pretty poor, but >interesting .jpgs I snapped when I was at the museum, which >I can e-mail you if you wish. They won't show any >construction details, as the light was dim and I used no >tripod or flash, but they do convey the patterns on the >caftans nicely enough to replicate them in applique (the >originals are woven, not appliqued, and the fabrics are no >longer made). The Topkapi Palace Museum actually published a series of books and one of them is on textiles. It has a number of photos of surviving caftans from about 16th century on. If anyone is interested I'll dig out the book and post the info. Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 01:08:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA13543 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 01:08:23 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA23952; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 23:16:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA13432 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 23:15:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from postal.grin.net (root@postal.grin.net [209.104.220.39]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA13420 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 23:15:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from [208.202.189.103] (ppp-103.pm4-1.grin.net [208.202.189.103]) by postal.grin.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA21537 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 22:15:28 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000101be3ead$f8239b60$ec56accf@s0peladn> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 22:23:52 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: lilinah@grin.net Subject: Re: H-COST: Incas Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: lilinah@grin.net Penny E. Ladnier asked: >1. Does anyone have an idea which Textile Museum they would be crediting? >Two groups of historians were shown in the video, researching two different >forts, a British group and the Museum of American History. But the credits >stated plainly, The Textile Museum. Most likely The Textile Museum in Washington, D.C. They have produced a number of publications about textile finds from Peru. They publish The Textile Museum Journal on textile research.The museum isn't huge, but they have contacts to other resources. THE TEXTILE MUSEUM 2320 S Street, NW Washington, DC 20008-4088 Phone: (202) 667-0441 Fax: (202) 483-0994 Open: Monday - Saturday 10:00 am - 5:00 pm, Sunday 1:00 to 5:00 pm Closed:All Federal Holidays and December 24 Website: http://www.textilemuseum.org/ >2. Are some of these letters available in publication or on the web for >people to study? These letters seem like a great find. I am interested in >comparing the costumes within the culture. You may be able to get more information on these from The Textile Museum. I participated in a symposium there on Indonesian textiles in the late 1970's and they were very friendly and helpful then. I sure hope they still are :-) >3. Why is this civilization not touched on more in history classes? The >Incas were very advanced in architecture, agriculture, and textile develop. >I remember in grade school the Incas was touched upon briefly (for the gold >and European invasion). In my art history courses, one professor showed two >slides of their housing. In my costume history classes the Incas were never >covered. We covered them in the series of textile history classes i had at UC-Berkeley, back in the late '60's-early '70's when they had a textiles program, one that was destroyed while Ronald Regan was governor. They even had a draw loom! which got shipped off elsewhere or sold. What a shame. My 18-year-old daughter says her middle school class had a whole unit on them. Kids now, at least in California, get much more exposure to other cultures than i did in my day, when we had absolutely none--and my high school history class only mentioned the Egyptians as forerunners of the Greeks, that was a multicultural as it got. Lilinah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 01:49:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA13738 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 01:49:31 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA26987; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 23:58:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA16499 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 23:57:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.mc.net (mail.mc.net [209.172.128.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id XAA16493 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 23:57:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 14758 invoked from network); 13 Jan 1999 06:58:19 -0000 Received: from tntmodem2-93.mc.net (HELO HEATHERL) (209.172.134.93) by mail.mc.net with SMTP; 13 Jan 1999 06:58:19 -0000 Message-ID: <369C67DC.9A0@mc.net> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 01:31:08 -0800 From: Heather Law Organization: Interstellar Trading Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Pinks/reds References: <199901130615.XAA13441@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Rating: mail.mc.net 1.6.1 0/1000/N Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Heather Law I read somewhere that a lot of nobility would pass on their "old" (already wore it once? :-)) garments to "lesser" nobility, servants and the like... Seems to me that some of the sturdier garments could have been hand-me-downed enough times to make it to the middle classes. And yes, the reds would fade - I've had that happen plenty with *modern* dyes! Also, in the Middle East, there is a tribe sometimes called the "blue men". They wear indigo dyed garments, and darker = richer, because the richer you are, the more dips in the dyebath you can afford for your clothes, to the point where they look black and the dye comes off and stains the person wearing it? Don't know squat about madder and other reds, but if it took more dye (and/or time) to get a deeper red, the lower classes might have only been able to afford pink, the **filthy**rich, maroon... Heather > > - -Poster: Julie Adams > > There are plenty of washed out pinks on peasants and middle class women > throughout the period. And since some are shown in the same pictures with > people wearing brighter pinks and reds, my assumption would be that pink is > period. Reds fade so easily anyway... > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 07:58:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA20676 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 07:58:22 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id GAA12187; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 06:07:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id GAA00594 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 06:05:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from tor-smtp1.netcom.ca (tor-smtp1.netcom.ca [207.181.101.69]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id GAA00587 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 06:05:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from default (trt-on4-31.netcom.ca [207.181.81.223]) by tor-smtp1.netcom.ca (8.8.7-s-4/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA11854 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:04:50 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <004e01be3ef6$0d9e2ee0$df51b5cf@default> From: "David Stamper & Eve Harris" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Color associations Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:10:10 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "David Stamper & Eve Harris" >-Poster: Danielle Nunn >If I remember correctly I believe there was a late 15th or 16th century law >in Venice pertaining to prositutes wearing yellow sleeves. Eve do you have >any more info on this? I mentioned earlier in the thread that _Lives of The Courtesans_ discusses this and (copy at the library right now, dammit!) I seem to remember that it briefly discussed a few sumptuary laws pertaining to prostitutes, which as I recall mentioned yellow veils and pearls. I'm going to borrow it again - in the meantime, does anyone else OWN this book and could back me up on this? _Lives of the Courtesans_ is an amusing book. The research is fairly good, but where it falls down for me is when it proceeds to take almost every well-known female portrait from the Italian Renaissance and suggest that the female portrayed is probably a prostitute. (Aside of course from the Estes etc.! And Bia.) In particular, it cited La Donna Velata by Raphael as a prostitute (she's wearing a beautiful yellow dress, chemise adorned with deep yellow or gold trim, and a yellow veil). Humph. The book says that the placement of the hands in Ital Ren portraits is a telling factor i.e. are they cradling or suggestively pointing to the breasts or nether regions? (instead of holding a prayer book) If so, then they are prostitutes. I don't know much about symbolism in portraits other than actual items. Is hand placement important? I'm going to get that book and wring its little neck. It does have a good bibliography. Eve Harris _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 08:37:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA20827 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:37:45 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id GAA15729; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 06:47:14 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id GAA03544 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 06:45:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.mc.net (mail.mc.net [209.172.128.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id GAA03538 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 06:45:24 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 29843 invoked from network); 13 Jan 1999 13:46:36 -0000 Received: from tntmodem2-58.mc.net (HELO HEATHERL) (209.172.134.58) by mail.mc.net with SMTP; 13 Jan 1999 13:46:36 -0000 Message-ID: <369CC794.6D9D@mc.net> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:19:32 -0800 From: Heather Law Organization: Interstellar Trading Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: historic ethnic References: <199901122327.QAA16049@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Rating: mail.mc.net 1.6.1 0/1000/N Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Heather Law One of my favorites (more specific than you're interested in, maybe) is Art of Arabian Costume, one edition goes for $50 from various online booksellers, the other is $75 -- don't know what the difference is. I also recommend 5,000 Years of Chinese Costume, Mongol Costume (out of print, but you can get it from interlib. loans), and I saw one on Southeast Asian costume a while ago at Borders or Barnes & Noble -- $50 or so, out of my reach! About the best place to find books is the Unicorn Books (don't know the exact title -- I can't find mine) catalog -- they have just about everything on costume, sewing, textiles etc. in print. It costs around $2, and you will *drool*! Heather Law > - -Poster: Christina Conklin > > are there > other > resources people would recommend? I'm interested in all > parts of the > world, but particularly Asia, in the largest sense of that > word. > > Also are there others out there doing this sort of thing, > either for fun > or profit? Any purveyors or web sites you all would > recommend?? Many > thanks, > > Christy Conklin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 09:35:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA21072 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:35:24 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA19196; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 07:44:25 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA09142 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 07:42:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA09124 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 07:42:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip187.an7-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.18.187]) by hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA21575 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 06:42:21 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <369CA36D.3BDBD489@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:45:19 -0400 From: Laurel Wilson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03C-NSCP (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Incas References: <000101be3ead$f8239b60$ec56accf@s0peladn> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Laurel Wilson Penny E. Ladnier wrote: > 1. Does anyone have an idea which Textile Museum they would be crediting? > Two groups of historians were shown in the video, researching two different > forts, a British group and the Museum of American History. But the credits > stated plainly, The Textile Museum. > The Textile Museum is a wonderful museum in Washington, D.C., and that is its full name. I don't have the information handy, but I'm sure they have a website. They have a library, although I don't think they lend, and they have many wonderful publications. They are particularly strong in South American and Central Asian publications, if I remember rightly. Lauri _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 09:37:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA21082 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:37:55 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA19440; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 07:47:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA09591 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 07:45:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo21.mx.aol.com (imo21.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.65]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA09579 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 07:45:27 -0700 (MST) From: SAQUEEN@aol.com Received: from SAQUEEN@aol.com by imo21.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id IAHMa02625 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:43:38 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:43:38 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Incas Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 61 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: SAQUEEN@aol.com Penny, The Textile Museum in Washington DC is the probable source from the documentary. They are considered the experts in textiles and have wonderful exhibits and fabulous collections. Don't know about web site -- would love to know. Sally Queen, who does what she does because she loves to learn! http://www.sallyqueenassociates.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 09:56:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA21204 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:56:56 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA20826; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:05:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA12089 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:03:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from epicurus.miningco.com (epicurus.miningco.com [207.122.100.23]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id IAA12082 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:03:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from s244166.microweb.net [208.201.244.166] (HELO lisa) by epicurus.miningco.com (AltaVista Mail V2.0/2.0 BL23 listener) id 0000_00fc_369c_c537_65f5; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:09:27 -0500 Message-Id: <4.1.19990113070213.0097aa60@mail.tmsonline.com> X-Sender: reenactment@mail.miningco.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 07:02:59 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lisa Scovel Subject: Re: H-COST: Costume Contest etc... In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990112161736.006bfdd0@silverspin.net> References: <369BDA76.BE9A466B@serv.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lisa Scovel And I would dearly love to feature some of them on my Mining Co. site! At 04:17 PM 1/12/99 -0800, you wrote: > >-Poster: Karla Sexsmith >I would be willing to do something like this... I have the server space, I >can make the pages, I even have the capability to scan stuff for people if >they can't do it themselves. *********************** lisa scovel historical reenactment guide the mining co. http://reenactment.miningco.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 09:57:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA21212 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:57:33 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA20945; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:07:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA12225 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:05:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [209.48.224.31]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA12213 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:05:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [209.48.224.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA25468 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:05:12 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:03:47 -0500 (EST) From: Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: re: mary magdalene In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Mara Riley There's a book called (I think) 'The Word According to Eve' about how women have been written out of the Bible -- I think it discusses how Mary Magdalen was confused with a woman (unnamed) who had been a prostitute. It's possible that this was a deliberate effort on the part of the early Church Fathers because Mary Magdalen was thought by some Gnostic sects of Christianity to have been Christ's secret wife. (Yes, that's all very controversial.) Hence the effort to make her 'shameful', so as to quash those sects that revered her. Didn't quite work, though, judging from the statues of Mary that show up in the late Middle Ages/Renaissance, wearing nothing more than her hair (strategically draped, of course). Mara On Tue, 12 Jan 1999, Allison Thurman wrote: > > -Poster: "Allison Thurman" > > > Then where did the story in the Bible come from if she wasnt a prostitute? > > Why were they trying to stone her to death and why did Jesus tell her to > > go and sin no more, or whatever it was? > > if i remember correctly she was initially referred to as "the woman out of > whom 7 devils were cast" - ie, perhaps she worshipped a cult and would > therefore be viewed by jesus and his apostles as a sinner - this was later > reinterpreted to mean that she was a prostitute. however, as mentioned > previously any of several marys mentioned in the new testament could have > been the same person. > > (i wont go further, as this is off topic, but if anyone wants documentation > email me privately and i'll scratch it up.) > > > > Sylvia R > allison _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 10:03:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA21242 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:03:57 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA21668; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:13:19 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA13428 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:11:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [209.48.224.31]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA13414 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:11:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [209.48.224.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA26131 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:11:19 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:09:54 -0500 (EST) From: Mara Riley To: costume newsgroup Subject: Re: H-COST: Incas In-Reply-To: <000101be3ead$f8239b60$ec56accf@s0peladn> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Mara Riley On Tue, 12 Jan 1999, Penny E. Ladnier wrote: > -Poster: "Penny E. Ladnier" > > I just watched a really good video on the Inca civilization. It was > originally aired on PBS in 1980, and produced by the BBC. It is titled > Incas (PBS Video 1061). They briefly touched upon the importance of > clothing in their culture. One of the sources credited was The Textile > Museum. The video talked of a person in the 1500's who wrote over 1200 > letters about the society including detailed illustrations of the people > with various occupations in the civilization. Some illustrations are shown > on the video. > > Now for my questions: > 1. Does anyone have an idea which Textile Museum they would be crediting? > Two groups of historians were shown in the video, researching two different > forts, a British group and the Museum of American History. But the credits > stated plainly, The Textile Museum. (snip) It's likely to be The Textile Museum in Washington, DC, which (to my disappointment) specializes in non-European textiles. (Their library does have some European stuff, tho.) I'm afraid I don't have their address/phone number, but they shouldn't be hard to find. Mara _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 10:14:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA21279 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:14:46 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA23286; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:24:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA15460 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:22:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [209.48.224.31]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA15408 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:22:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [209.48.224.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA27441 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:22:23 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:20:58 -0500 (EST) From: Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Color associations In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Mara Riley That's a new one by me -- I seem to recall reading about Roman women of all classes buying blond wigs or bleaching their hair. Same with later Italy. Of course I don't have a source at hand, but... Considering that the Italian nobility (Middle Ages, of course, not ancient Rome) had a lot of Lombard blood, you'd expect them to have blond hair. Which a number of them do, in paintings. So maybe imitating the nobility was what prompted people to bleach thair hair. (Including ladies of ill repute.) Mara On Mon, 11 Jan 1999, Lynn Downward wrote: > > -Poster: Lynn Downward > > >-Poster: Sylvia Rognstad > > > >> > >> -Poster: "David Stamper & Eve Harris" > >> Lives of the Courtesans mentions yellow veils in particular as being an > >> identifier for prostitutes in Italy. I'm not sure, but I think it also > >> mentioned that a couple of the city states had legislation in this vein, > >> along with the "no pearls" rule for courtesans, who of course paid no heed > >> to such laws. > >I seem to recall yellow being associated with courtesans from way back in > >ancient Rome. Anyone familiar with that notion? > >SylviA > > > I recall that in either ancient Greece or ancient Rome, prostitutes were > the only women to have blonde hair, but that's the only connection I can > remember. > LynnD _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 10:39:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA21368 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:39:19 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA25958; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:47:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA18971 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:45:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [209.48.224.31]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA18934 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:45:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [209.48.224.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA00507 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:45:34 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:44:10 -0500 (EST) From: Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Color associations In-Reply-To: <199901121929.UAA11309@worldonline.nl> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Mara Riley On Tue, 12 Jan 1999, Henk 't Jong wrote: > According to Joachim Bumke (Hoefische Kultur, 1989) the nobility in the > 12th c was of the opnion that the lower orders should not be allowed to > wear the same dress as they did and be confused with them. They called in > the help of the emperor and in a 'Kaiserchronik' of about 1150, which was > supposed to be a collection of laws by Charlemagne, they had the emperor > ordering peasants to wear only black (!) or grey, no gussets except at the > sides, shoes only made of cowhide, 7 ells of cloth for a shirt and pants of > common boadcloth, no more, etc. For the record: although there are > Carolingian 'capitularia' concerning military dress and equipment, to the > best of my knowledge, there are none about dress. (snip) It's interesting that 7 ells are allotted for shirts, since later in Ireland, the English tried to keep the Irish from using more than 7 ells (I think) of fabric (probably 30" wide) in their _leinte_ (shirts). Which of course were yellow, with no association made to loose morals at all. But people think that a leine is very voluminous, when, considering that the fabric width was narrower, it's actually a reasonable amount of cloth. Mara _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 10:40:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA21375 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:40:01 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA26247; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:49:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA19298 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:47:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA19282 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:47:14 -0700 (MST) From: Gaelscot@aol.com Received: from Gaelscot@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id LSFHa03214 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:46:01 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <39577d32.369cbfb9@aol.com> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:46:01 EST To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: H-COST: undergarments Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.7 for Mac sub 3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com Anne: I enjoyed your Anne's post on undergarments, particularly the "update" to the 1960s. I am 34 years old, of a generation that never wore anything but basic bra (Bali "natural" ideal) and cotton panties. Girdles, etc., were oddities for old people in the Sears catalogue when I was growing up! Even after I had grown up and gotten interested in vintage clothing, including corsets etc., it didn't occur to me that styles a few years before my birth needed major underwear. I *really* thought those women just had flat stomachs! Now nearing middle age, and having two children, I have realized that my stomach will never be flat again without some serious workouts -- and that it never was all that flat to begin with! This year I was in a wedding and had the humiliating experience of buying various undergaments to look good in my dress. I was surprised to find a vast array of foundation garments -- a good number of them of no use to anyone with even a little extra flesh, but a lot that were quite rigid. Looking at myself in those unforgiving mirrors, I briefly wondered if I ought to wear some of that stuff all the time. I did buy a sort of girdle that I thought I might wear again, but I haven't. I'm just too addicted to comfort. I wonder why I think that corsets were rather charming, but modern girdles are horrible? I love the "New Look" but I'd never wear what those women wore to get it! Are other historic costumers of like opinion, or is it just me? And just how many people wear foundation garments all the time today? Judging from the department store, a lot more than I thought! Gail Finke _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 10:50:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA21409 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:50:28 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA27956; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:00:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA21930 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:58:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from sun.rmci.net (sun.rmci.net [205.162.184.21]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id IAA21918 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:58:11 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 26372 invoked from network); 13 Jan 1999 15:53:11 -0000 Received: from pag-di64.rica.net (HELO rica.net) (209.211.110.64) by sun.rmci.net with SMTP; 13 Jan 1999 15:53:11 -0000 Message-ID: <369CC052.A65DFF54@rica.net> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:48:35 -0500 From: Jennie Chancey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Just put a bunch of vintage patterns on eBay. References: <8320d494.3692edda@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Jennie Chancey I've been cleaning out the pattern collection again and pulling out doubles. I just put a bunch up on eBay, all of which are from the 1910s to 1920s. You can see them at http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid=chanceys. All patterns are "new" old store stock and have never even been opened. Cheers, Jennie -- Sense and Sensibility http://www.sensibility.com winsome clothing with an old-fashioned appeal _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 10:54:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA21455 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:54:09 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA28866; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:03:40 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA22692 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:01:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [209.48.224.31]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA22605 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:01:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [209.48.224.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA02401 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:01:00 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:59:35 -0500 (EST) From: Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: undergarments In-Reply-To: <39577d32.369cbfb9@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Mara Riley I think modern foundation garments -are- ugly. Having never worn one, I can't say whether it's more or less comfortable than my period stays (1750s), but I think my stays, which are plain linen, are definitely more charming than the lycra-and-elastic monstrosities I've seen. I never wear polyester or fibers that don't breathe next to my skin, so I've never been tempted to buy one, either. Maybe if they made them out of linen, cotton or silk, with some charming ribbons and a touch of lace! Mara On Wed, 13 Jan 1999 Gaelscot@aol.com wrote: > Anne: > > I enjoyed your Anne's post on undergarments, particularly the "update" to the > 1960s. I am 34 years old, of a generation that never wore anything but basic > bra (Bali "natural" ideal) and cotton panties. Girdles, etc., were oddities > for old people in the Sears catalogue when I was growing up! Even after I had > grown up and gotten interested in vintage clothing, including corsets etc., it > didn't occur to me that styles a few years before my birth needed major > underwear. I *really* thought those women just had flat stomachs! > > Now nearing middle age, and having two children, I have realized that my > stomach will never be flat again without some serious workouts -- and that it > never was all that flat to begin with! This year I was in a wedding and had > the humiliating experience of buying various undergaments to look good in my > dress. I was surprised to find a vast array of foundation garments -- a good > number of them of no use to anyone with even a little extra flesh, but a lot > that were quite rigid. Looking at myself in those unforgiving mirrors, I > briefly wondered if I ought to wear some of that stuff all the time. I did buy > a sort of girdle that I thought I might wear again, but I haven't. I'm just > too addicted to comfort. > > I wonder why I think that corsets were rather charming, but modern girdles are > horrible? I love the "New Look" but I'd never wear what those women wore to > get it! Are other historic costumers of like opinion, or is it just me? And > just how many people wear foundation garments all the time today? Judging from > the department store, a lot more than I thought! > > Gail Finke > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 10:59:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA21479 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:59:29 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA00231; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:09:00 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA24661 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:06:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from isis.netherworld.com (isis.Netherworld.COM [199.165.233.10]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA24640; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:06:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost by isis.netherworld.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA02285; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:58:34 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:58:32 -0700 (MST) From: Sylvia Rognstad To: h-costume@indra.com cc: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: undergarments In-Reply-To: <39577d32.369cbfb9@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sylvia Rognstad > > -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com > > I wonder why I think that corsets were rather charming, but modern girdles are > horrible? I love the "New Look" but I'd never wear what those women wore to > get it! Are other historic costumers of like opinion, or is it just me? And > just how many people wear foundation garments all the time today? Judging from > the department store, a lot more than I thought! Gail, I don't think you're alone. I was a child in the fifties and remember seeing my mother struggle into one of those rubber crotchless girdles with holes in them for air (I guess so you wouldn't sweat to death in it) all the time. Since I grew up with that mentality, my transition to comfort was a slow one. I wore girdles (but not THAT kind) when I got dressed up as a teen and in my first year at college, along with uncomfortable spiked heels. Since I went to college at UC Berkeley, I lost the girdle pretty fast. The heels took longer, especially as I worked in so many offices where I thought you had to have heels to look good in dresses and suits. Actually I still think that, just dont work in offices anymore, so now I cant stand to have to wear heels for very long. Now that I have that middle aged spread, I probably would look better with some foundation, but I'll opt for comfort any day. I dont like wearing anything more than panties and I usually have my bra off by dinner time. Btw, has anyone else noticed that it seems impossible to buy anything but wonder bras these days, you know, the kind with underwires? I dont like sports bras. I just want one of those little nothing kind of bras that were so popular in the 70s that women bought to try to look like they were braless. At least they were comfortable. Anyone know where to find one of those today, or at least something without underwires that doesnt look like one of those Playtex pointy things? Who still wears those? They havent changed since the fifties, I dont think. Sylvia R _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 11:09:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA21524 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:09:09 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA01999; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:18:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA27249 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:16:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from fw2.roguewave.com (firewall-user@fw2.roguewave.com [208.151.233.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA27242; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:16:51 -0700 (MST) Received: by fw2.roguewave.com; id IAA27935; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:12:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from cvo1.cvo.roguewave.com(10.68.4.36) via SMTP by net.indra.com, id smtpd027921; Wed Jan 13 08:12:21 1999 Received: by cvo1.cvo.roguewave.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:17:36 -0800 Message-ID: From: Betsy Perry To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Cc: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: RE: H-COST: undergarments Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:17:32 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Betsy Perry Not terribly historic, but I've been able to find non-underwire, soft-cup (or is it cupless? Stretch material with no foam lining) brassieres at Target. One good brand is Hanes Her Way. --- Elizabeth Hanes Perry Rogue Wave Software _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 11:12:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA21561 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:12:53 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA02575; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:22:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA26167 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:11:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA26059 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:11:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.181] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 100Sss-0001Xt-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:11:07 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990112132614.00b99da0@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19990112132614.00b99da0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:28:57 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: H-COST: pinking chisels In-Reply-To: <7a97f51d.369b062b@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >The real joke, I suppose, is that the chisels I used to have for this purpose >were made by one of the finest knifemakers on the planet (not just my >opinion), Jim Hrisoulas, aka Master Atar Baktar. That much talent probably >isn't necessary, although it did mean custom sizes :). Does he make these just for you, or does he make them for anyone who asks/pays? I could sure use one or two of these myself, and I see this person occasionally. If he made them they would look period enough to use in public. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 11:13:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA21568 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:13:22 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA02664; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:22:57 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA26168 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:11:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA26074 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:11:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.181] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 100Ssu-0001Xt-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:11:08 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990112133510.00b99c20@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19990112133510.00b99c20@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:41:22 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Colours In-Reply-To: <199901121635.IAA02515@smtp.pacifier.com> References: <4.1.19990111213313.00bc6eb0@pop.slip.net> <001a01be3d93$2485fc00$90a06480@dsc> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Two problems here: I do Renaissance not really Medieval, and I AM lower class. We do all kinds of things to survive which you upper class folks don't even consider doing (and we have a great time doing them). Non commercial dyers did many things commercial dyers didn't, especially for family use. If pink was fashionable (assuming they even were aware of that fact) they would do what they could to recreate it using whatever they had, including lees of something else and multiple dipping. With whatever level of success. Alternatively, if they had seen the colour and wanted to try to recreate it with home methods, it might not have matched too well anyway. >I think that pink is period but dying with the lees was something >that was avoided. I don't have time to look it up now but I've seen >statutes where it was illegal to sell them, letters where it was >discussed as something to be avoided as low class and numerous things >which indicated that the medievals preferred intense colors requiring >several overdyings to make sure that it was as intense as possible. >True pastels were not popular until late Elizabethan. The pinks that >I have seen in tapestries were not baby pink but intense pinks (deep >roses, brilliant peach, almost fluorescent pinks in some cases.) > Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 11:13:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA21572 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:13:44 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA02743; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:23:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA26195 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:11:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA26084 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:11:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.181] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 100Ssv-0001Xt-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:11:10 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990112140846.00b9ce20@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19990112140846.00b9ce20@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:11:12 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Shakespeare in Love In-Reply-To: <199901121653.IAA09379@mail.eskimo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows You saw the wrong turquoise/aqua blue, being a dyer. (They didn't look just right to me either.) I saw a smooth ochre-yellow glazed mug with a Ren Faire logo on it, being more of a potter. (He threw a piece of trash into it early on in the film.) someone@eskimo.com writes, in a message sent 08:52 AM 1/12/99 +0000: > >-Poster: someone@eskimo.com > >I went to see it yesterday, and I concur with the other comments I've >seen here -- wonderful movie, wonderful costumes. > >The only thing that caught my eye as a possible false note (and I'm >willing to accept the possibility that it's just my eye, and not >really anything not in period) is the shade of many of the blues used >in the costumes. > >I have extensive experience dyeing with indigo, alone and in >combination with other natural dyes, and many of the blues in the >film didn't fit in with the range I'm accustomed to seeing. For the >most part, they were more in the teal/aqua/turquiose range than I >expected. There was also something (a piece of cloth? a costume?) >hanging on a rack backstage at the theatre that was a clear, >jewel-toned sapphire. > >So, what is the opinion of those on this list in the know? Are those >blues wrong for the period? Was it just my eyes? Possibly a bad >print of the film, with the colors off from what they were when >filmed? Any other ideas? > >Pam Dotson >Everett, WA USA > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 11:14:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA21579 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:14:23 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA02859; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:23:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA26205 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:11:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA26111 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:11:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.181] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 100Ssx-0001Xt-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:11:11 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990112141225.00b99ae0@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19990112141225.00b99ae0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:06:55 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: ethnic costume resource books In-Reply-To: <369B9C9E.ADD6BAEE@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows There are other books than Tilke. Look for specific books about garments from the area you want. Look also for books about the embroidery, textiles, or crafts of those areas. Books, for example, about the ikat dying technique are usually illustrated with pictures of ethnic ikat garments. The captions often tell how old the garments are, what age/gender of person wore them, and the name of the village in which they were produced. The best of these books also have old photos of ethnic people wearing these garments, and the jewelry, hats, shoes, etc. which originally went with them. Other than folk dancers, I can't think of any groups which make or wear ethnic costumes. I think this is because one can't 'play' ethnic like one can play Victorian or SCA. Occasionally ethnic garments get reproduced for showing at CostumeCon. Ethnic garments are a big interest for me too. It is my opinion that any garment which looks ethnic to the modern eye is historical, a living fossil. These garments are being replaced almost everywhere by the same garments we homogenized 'un-ethnics' wear, at a loss to the culture which discards them. The few exceptions include India and 'Palestine'. There the traditional ethnic garments are worn daily (if only as signs of cultural pride), and new designs in the same idiom are still evolving and being produced. Christina Conklin writes, in a message sent 11:03 AM 1/12/99 -0800: > >-Poster: Christina Conklin > >First posting to this group . . . > >I am interested in creating historic ethnic costumes, like 16th c. >Mughal robes, traditional Turkish jackets, ceremonial Korean gowns and >the like. > >I have the little book Cut My Cote (long out of print) and am looking at >buying Max Tilke's 1922 book on Oriental Costumes. But it costs over >$100 (also long OOP), and the on-line version at Univ of Indiana just >isn't the same. Is this the best book to get, or are there other >resources people would recommend? I'm interested in all parts of the >world, but particularly Asia, in the largest sense of that word. > >Also are there others out there doing this sort of thing, either for fun >or profit? Any purveyors or web sites you all would recommend?? Many >thanks, > >Christy Conklin > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 11:34:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA21647 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:34:39 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA05032; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:43:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA01333 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:41:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp0-alterdial.uu.net (smtp0-alterdial.UU.NET [192.48.96.28]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA01313 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:41:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from jwilbur1 by smtp0-alterdial.uu.net with SMTP (peer crosschecked as: 119.pcpool89.corp.us.uu.net [153.39.89.119]) id QQfxzu14606 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:41:30 GMT Message-Id: From: "Jessica Wilbur" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:41:50 -0500 Subject: RE: H-COST: undergarments Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.00 beta 6) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Jessica Wilbur" Yup! I get mine at Wal-mart. I think there are a couple of brands that work well. They're not sports bras, but they're pretty substantial. I am rather well-endowed and I was getting sick of underwires poking me and digging into my flesh. The bras I wear now have maybe a little less support than ones with underwires, but I'm so much more comfortable! Now if only I can figure out how to keep the straps from digging into my shoulders.... --Jessica > > -Poster: Betsy Perry > > Not terribly historic, but I've been able to find non-underwire, > soft-cup (or is it cupless? Stretch material with no foam lining) > brassieres at Target. One good brand is Hanes Her Way. > > > --- > Elizabeth Hanes Perry > Rogue Wave Software > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 11:51:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA21702 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:51:13 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA07042; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:00:40 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA04270 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:58:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from epicurus.miningco.com (epicurus.miningco.com [207.122.100.23]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id JAA04242 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:58:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from LISA [209.162.71.46] by epicurus.miningco.com (AltaVista Mail V2.0/2.0 BL23 listener) id 0000_00fc_369c_e012_0e92; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:04:02 -0500 Message-Id: <4.1.19990113084824.00963ef0@mail.tmsonline.com> X-Sender: reenactment@mail.miningco.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:57:31 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lisa Scovel Subject: Re: H-COST: undergarments In-Reply-To: <39577d32.369cbfb9@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lisa Scovel I have a couple of the lycra bodyshapers (I call them sucker-inners) that I wear under my more form-fitting clothes and I just love them. I look for ones that are comfortable, of course, but I find the control-top bike short thingies (many have a special tummy panel) serve double duty for a smooth line and keeping my hose up during the day. I also have a couple of the full body ones that I wear under dresses to keep everything 'in place' - they aren't as comfortable as the shorts, but I like them for formal occasions. They key for me is getting them in a large enough size that they smooth, but do not constrict. At 10:46 AM 1/13/99 -0500, you wrote: >I was surprised to find a vast array of foundation garments -- a good >number of them of no use to anyone with even a little extra flesh, but a lot >that were quite rigid. Looking at myself in those unforgiving mirrors, I >briefly wondered if I ought to wear some of that stuff all the time. I did buy >a sort of girdle that I thought I might wear again, but I haven't. I'm just >too addicted to comfort. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 11:57:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA21726 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:57:58 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA07729; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:07:19 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA05410 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:05:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from m23.boston.juno.com (m23.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.188]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA05390 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:05:05 -0700 (MST) From: seamstrix@juno.com Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m23.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id DYUYC93W; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:04:41 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:49:37 -0600 Subject: Re: H-COST: Shakespeare in Love Message-ID: <19990113.105247.25342.42.seamstrix@juno.com> References: <4.1.19990112140846.00b9ce20@pop.slip.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-6,11-14 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: seamstrix@juno.com On Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:11:12 -0800 Carolyn Kayta Barrows writes: > > I saw a smooth ochre-yellow glazed mug with >a Ren Faire logo on it, being more of a potter. (He threw a piece of >trash into it early on in the film.) It wasn't a RenFaire mug, it was a souvenir of Stratford-On-Avon. It was deliberately put there by the writer (Stoppard) to poke fun at the modern Bard-mania. It's a total anachronism. That's all it was ever meant to be. Personally I hope they are selling copies of it in Stratford when I go next month because I'd cough up bucks for something that silly! Karen _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 12:04:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA21766 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:04:57 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA08730; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:14:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA06553 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:12:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA06536 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:12:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (1Cust238.tnt2.sfo3.da.uu.net [153.37.7.238]) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA25352 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:12:24 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <369CD4C0.D8D5AC76@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:15:44 -0800 From: Christina Conklin X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #36 References: <199901130615.XAA13441@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Christina Conklin > Danielle, I'm very interested in these books, and would be grateful if you can give me some bibliographic info. Many thanks. Christy Conklin > - -Poster: Danielle Nunn > > The Topkapi Palace Museum actually published a series of books and one of > them is on textiles. It has a number of photos of surviving caftans from > about 16th century on. If anyone is interested I'll dig out the book and > post the info. > > Cheers, > Danielle > > _________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 12:09:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA21787 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:09:42 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA09525; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:19:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA07404 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:17:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from public.ndh.com (public.ndh.net [194.97.97.21]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA07367 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:17:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from Andrea (port1124.koeln.ndh.net [195.227.37.124]) by public.ndh.com (8.8.7/8.8.0) with ESMTP id SAA16043 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:16:58 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <36958049.A35DA6C@ndh.net> Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 04:49:35 +0100 From: Andrea Clef X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [de] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re:book publication X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------B876C9D52995243EE4327E99" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Andrea Clef --------------B876C9D52995243EE4327E99 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > Who is the publisher? Did they put their address in the book? If so what > is it? And what is the ISBN? Do you know how an American can buy a copy? > > Thanks for any info, > > Fran Grimble > The publisher of the book is "Karfunkel Verlag" which is a small business that also edits a German magazine for medieval reenactment. The ISBN-Nr. is 3-9805642-2-3. To order it, I would try the German branch of amazon.com first, that`s http://www.amazon.de If they don`t have it ,ask me again, I could order it here for you and send it over. It costs 43,-DM, that`s about $ 26 (I would accept dollar payment). > Are there good photos/pictures in it? > There are eight detailed colour plates in it showing men´s and women`s wear as well as weaponry. I think Anah is going to put two of these plates onto her website as I sent her copies. But there are also little drawings which illustrate how to do special stitches that were used during this period and patterns of basic garments are given (mainly for men). This is going to be the first book in a series, so I believe that other editions will folllow dealing with earlier and later medieval periods. I`ll keep you up to date! Diana P.S. : I haven`t heard of these periodicals yet, must be an older thing... --------------B876C9D52995243EE4327E99 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 
Who is the publisher?  Did they put their address in the book?  If so what
is it?   And what is the ISBN?  Do you know how an American can buy a copy?

Thanks for any info,

Fran Grimble
The publisher of the book is "Karfunkel Verlag" which is a small business that also
edits a German magazine for medieval reenactment.
The ISBN-Nr. is 3-9805642-2-3.

To order it, I would try the German branch of amazon.com first, that`s
http://www.amazon.de
If they don`t have it ,ask me again, I could order it here for you and send it over.
It costs 43,-DM, that`s about $ 26 (I would accept dollar payment).
  

Are there good photos/pictures in it?
There are eight detailed colour plates in it showing men´s and women`s wear as well
as weaponry.
I think Anah is going to put two of these plates onto her website as I sent her copies.
But there are also little drawings which illustrate how to do special stitches that
were used during this period and patterns of basic garments are given (mainly for
men).
This is going to be the first book in a series, so I believe that other editions will folllow
dealing with earlier and later medieval periods.
I`ll keep you up to date!

Diana

P.S. : I haven`t heard of these periodicals yet, must be an older thing...
  --------------B876C9D52995243EE4327E99-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 12:28:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA21854 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:28:02 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA11950; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:37:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA10424 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:35:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailhub.iastate.edu (mailhub.iastate.edu [129.186.1.102]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA10409 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:35:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumes.center.iastate.edu (costumes.center.iastate.edu [129.186.127.4]) by mailhub.iastate.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA24909 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:35:36 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199901131735.LAA24909@mailhub.iastate.edu> X-Sender: djnash@pop-2.iastate.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:36:22 -0600 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Doris J. Nash" Subject: Re: H-COST: undergarments--modern (OT) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Doris J. Nash" At 08:58 AM 1/13/99 -0700, you wrote: > >-Poster: Sylvia Rognstad >Btw, has anyone else noticed that it seems impossible to buy anything but >wonder bras these days, you know, the kind with underwires? I dont like >sports bras. I just want one of those little nothing kind of bras that >were so popular in the 70s that women bought to try to look like they were >braless. At least they were comfortable. Anyone know where to find one >of those today, or at least something without underwires that doesnt look >like one of those Playtex pointy things? Who still wears those? They >havent changed since the fifties, I dont think. >Sylvia R > I'm a great fan of Just My Size bras. They have a variety of styles--some underwired, some not. And reasonably priced, too! Doris ============== Doris Nash Costume Shop Supervisor, Iowa State University "...with ruffs and cuffs, and farthingales and things." --Shakespeare, The Taming of the Shrew _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 12:59:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA21988 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:59:46 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA16313; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:09:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA16824 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:07:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA16801 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:07:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA23176 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:07:27 +0100 (MET) Received: from pc2 (vp189-134.worldonline.nl [195.241.189.134]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA00950 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:07:09 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199901131807.TAA00950@worldonline.nl> From: "Henk 't Jong" To: Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:_H-COST:_Hello=2C_I=B4m_new?= Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:37:00 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands > Henk, you're forgetting us Canadians! Oooops!!! I'm sorry!!! (A large blush is spreading from my bottom upwards...) Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 14:06:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA22318 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:06:49 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA25492; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:16:32 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA08684 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:14:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA08654 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:14:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p30.directcon.net [206.170.184.79]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA05350 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:09:44 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:09:44 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901131909.LAA05350@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: pinking chisels Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson >>The real joke, I suppose, is that the chisels I used to have for this purpose >>were made by one of the finest knifemakers on the planet (not just my >>opinion), Jim Hrisoulas, aka Master Atar Baktar. Geez, Maggie...who carved your kitchen spoons, Mr. Chippendale? Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 14:13:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA22363 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:13:29 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA26584; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:23:21 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA08052 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:11:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA07980 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:10:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p30.directcon.net [206.170.184.79]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA04997 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:06:36 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:06:36 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901131906.LAA04997@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: undergarments Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson I'm just old enough (41) to have been subjected to panty girdles in my early teens. I remember them as being agonizingly uncomfortable. This may have been due to my mom's tendacy to buy my clothes a size too small "because you'll lose the weight soon"--hah! but some of it, I'm sure, has to do with the style. When my sister had a 1930's wedding, my bias cut dress required a girdle. I bought an old fashioned "tube" girdle with garter clips and was surprised how comfortable it was. In fact, I took to wearing it under my work skirts quite happily, even though I was in the first months of pregnancy. Tight waistbands were unberable, but the allover pressure from the girdle was rather soothing. It's interesting how many people have their first experiences with serious support garments when they're needed for a wedding. I guess for many of us, that's the only time we dress so formally--in modern clothing, at least. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 15:38:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA22825 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:38:29 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA08540; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:48:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA25740 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:45:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.19]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA25723 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:45:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.31.120 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:45:08 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: H-COST: RE: Kilt jacket, shirt, and Jabot Pattern. Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:48:59 -0500 Message-ID: <000301be3f36$3775bf40$201fffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <199901081619.KAA01287@host1.texramp.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" While their WebPages offer no patterns, this is a custom maker of several historical styles of Scots jackets, including the Sheriffmuir kilt jacket. The WebPages include front and back views of their products. The pictures are awesome, as are all of their handmade products and accessories. You might inquire about the availability of a pattern to your measurements at Tartan Web Ratchill, Broughton, Peeblesshire, Scotland ML12 6HH Telephone: +44 (0) 1899 830 239 Fax: +44 (0) 1899 830 461 email: enquiries@tartanweb.co.uk Their jacket WebPages are available at http://www.scottish-selection.com/tweb/jackets.htm. Made up, the Sheriffmuir is one of their more expensive jackets at $457. Note that if you want it to close in front, it's called something else, and they have that too. They have less expensive jacket styles. In any event, I can't offer any help with the pattern other than referring you to Amazon Drygoods catalog available at 1-800-798-7979. They have a number of riding coats, cadet coats, and frock coat patterns, which you could modify with the Sheriffmuir style jacket skirts of your own devising. Or, if you prefer, try the pattern generating engine at http://www.panix.com/~aqn/tailoring/drafting/index.html, and follow the directions to enter the site for body and sleeve (again, you'll have to develop your own skirts).This site also has two terrific old-fashioned men's vest patterns on it which it will custom- generate a pattern to your measurements. http://www.piobmhor.com/doublet.html is another Scots company with bagpiper's gear for sale, including a variety of sleeved and sleeveless doublets, very similar to the Sheriffmuir to give you some alternatives. They offer regalia for any jacket you make yourself, the braids, trims and other trim which will give it that authentic touch at http://www.piobmhor.com/regalia.html. The shirt varies by the century you are trying to portray, but prior to the mid- to late- 19th Century, something of simple rectangles will be appropriate. The jabot is about 5-7 feet long, six-eight inches wide after hemming, lace at ends optional. It is separate from the shirt. The shirt may have ruffles or not, your choice. They are sewn onto each side of the neck opening. This company above also sells shirts and jabots, too. The Kirke's Lambs Uniforms website at http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/1663/kirkes_uniform.html has a good shirt and jabot pattern (they call the jabot a cravat, but it's virtually the same thing.) The shirt pattern at http://http://ares.redsword.com/dduperault/shirt.htm has good measuring info and directions, but gather your shirt all in at the neck, not across the top of the shoulders. If you want a true collar, which isn't necessary if you wear a jabot, add about 3" to the width of the collar pieces on this site and make it up the same way. Not quite what you asked for, but I hope this helps. . . . Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Sterling Ranne Sent: Friday, January 08, 1999 11:20 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: WTD: Kilt jacket pattern. -Poster: "Sterling Ranne" I'm looking for a pattern for a Sheriffmuir kilt jacket. Also looking for a pattern for the jabot shirt that is worn with it. I can find the Prince Charlie jacket but much prefer the looks of the Sheriffmuir. Any help finding patterns greatly appreciated. Sterling 92.5% Pure sranne@hydroseal.com ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 15:52:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA22883 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:52:53 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA11055; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:02:53 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA27777 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:56:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA27677 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:56:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.165] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 100XKg-00004j-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:56:06 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990113120132.00bbfc50@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:02:20 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: H-COST: ethnic costume resource books In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990112221609.009473c0@mail.interlog.com> References: <000501be3e75$a88d97a0$551fffd0@default> <369B9C9E.ADD6BAEE@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >The Topkapi Palace Museum actually published a series of books and one of >them is on textiles. It has a number of photos of surviving caftans from >about 16th century on. If anyone is interested I'll dig out the book and >post the info. > Please post this. I am drooling in my (ethnic) shoes in anticipation. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 15:53:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA22893 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:53:11 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA11127; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:03:07 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA27774 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:56:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA27700 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:56:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.165] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 100XKj-00004j-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:56:09 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990113123701.00b5bac0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:38:32 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Color associations In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Sicily has a lot of natural blonde people, again because of their history of being invaded by blonde conquerors. >Considering that the Italian nobility (Middle Ages, of course, not ancient >Rome) had a lot of Lombard blood, you'd expect them to have blond hair. >Which a number of them do, in paintings. So maybe imitating the nobility >was what prompted people to bleach thair hair. (Including ladies of ill >repute.) Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 15:53:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA22897 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:53:23 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA11197; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:03:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA27768 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:56:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA27669 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:56:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.165] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 100XKe-00004j-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:56:05 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990113115523.00bbe540@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:00:28 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Incas In-Reply-To: <000101be3ead$f8239b60$ec56accf@s0peladn> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >3. Why is this civilization not touched on more in history classes? The >Incas were very advanced in architecture, agriculture, and textile develop. >I remember in grade school the Incas was touched upon briefly (for the gold >and European invasion). In my art history courses, one professor showed two >slides of their housing. In my costume history classes the Incas were never >covered. Because 'history' means European history, or did till recently. The latest thing (and about time) is to offer history classes about other parts of the world like parts of Africa and South America, etc. These are often found, in California at least, under some kind of ethnic studies department. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 15:54:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA22908 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:54:14 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA11274; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:03:47 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA27637 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:56:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA27626 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:56:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.165] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 100XKX-00004j-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:55:58 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990113110945.00b5e2e0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:12:27 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: requesting suggestions for a wedding dress In-Reply-To: <19990112191348.5980.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Round and busty, otherwise known as 'Reubenesque', looks very good in anything Reuben painted, and that's pre-1700. I can identify with the ladies he painted nude (which is why I am dieting this year). But they sure look good in the dresses he painted. >I'm getting married this summer (*gasp!*) and I would really like to >have a dress that I could use again. My future husband will be in Black >Tails, top hat, the whole shebang. I'd like something that would look >really good with this. I think Edwardian would look nice, but I'm more >interested in something pre 1700. > >I was wondering if any of you have suggestions? > >Oh yeah, my body type is round and busty. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 15:54:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA22912 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:54:35 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA11336; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:04:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA28609 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:01:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA28582 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:01:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (pilot [129.127.36.15]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id HAA31717 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 07:31:34 +1030 (CST) Received: by pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.61+IDA+MU/UA-5.23) id AA08484; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 07:31:34 +1030 Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 07:31:33 +1030 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant X-Sender: csmart@pilot To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: undergarments In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Wed, 13 Jan 1999, Mara Riley wrote: > > -Poster: Mara Riley > > I think modern foundation garments -are- ugly. Having never worn one, I > can't say whether it's more or less comfortable than my period stays > (1750s), but I think my stays, which are plain linen, are definitely more > charming than the lycra-and-elastic monstrosities I've seen. I never wear > polyester or fibers that don't breathe next to my skin, so I've never been > tempted to buy one, either. Maybe if they made them out of linen, cotton > or silk, with some charming ribbons and a touch of lace! > This could be a good reason....perhaps the lack of individual fit is another. I own two pieces of underwear that might be considered as modern control garments I suppose (though only light control), both full body. One is lightly boned and horribly uncomfortable. The bones seem in just the right places to poke me. The other is of lycra and has a nice smoothing effect. It's far more comfortable, but I wouldn't wear it in hot weather or for serious body-shaping. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 15:55:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA22920 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:55:07 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA11416; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:04:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA27762 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:56:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA27649 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:56:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.165] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 100XKd-00004j-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:56:03 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990113114444.00b645a0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:53:43 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: H-COST: 'baby walker' Elizabethan In-Reply-To: <001001be3e91$b7dc4a00$4341cfcf@gia-g> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >I recently did a elizabethan for my 3 yr old that I am glad to say was one >of the winners of the "Well Dressed Child" contest at Twelfth Night, this >last weekend. I made an Elizabethan for my oldest kid for her first Twelfth Night, when she was just learning to walk. I made the drum farthingale out of a circular-top baby walker from a thrift store. I gave her dress leading strings, and used them in their period function as kid leashes when she was in the walker. I was able to pick her up out of the walker when she needed picking up, so I had to make the walker a petticoat/cover. It was fun. Wheeled baby walkers are period from at least the 1400's, as shown in a woodcut in the Dover history of woodcuts. They even occur in doll houses from the 1600's, by which time they have casters! Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 15:55:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA22924 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:55:46 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA11678; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:05:49 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA27787 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:56:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA27712 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:56:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.165] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 100XKk-00004j-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:56:10 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990113124005.00bc8590@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:54:00 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: H-COST: 1940's-50's undergarments In-Reply-To: <39577d32.369cbfb9@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >I wonder why I think that corsets were rather charming, but modern girdles are >horrible? I love the "New Look" but I'd never wear what those women wore to >get it! Are other historic costumers of like opinion, or is it just me? And >just how many people wear foundation garments all the time today? Judging from >the department store, a lot more than I thought! I am old enough to have worn girdles and I occasionally wear historical corsets. I think the major difference between these two kinds of foundation garments is the length. Corsets are long enough allow for the flesh they displace, and most girdles are not. This means that it shows and must be dealt with, like by a long line bra. The extra flesh gets pinched in between the two garments. In addition there are other discomfort factors. Corsets are worn with an undergarment to reduce chafing and girdles are not. Corsets stay in place, and girdles must be tugged at occasionally. The best solution for 1940's-50's is to wear a one-piece garment which includes bra and girdle in the same garment. These are 40's-50's period things, and are enough like a corset that if you can wear a Victorian/Edwardian one you can successfully wear one of them. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 15:55:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA22928 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:55:49 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA11574; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:05:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA27779 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:56:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA27668 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:56:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.165] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 100XKb-00004j-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:56:02 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990113113800.00bba6c0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:44:14 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Costume Contest etc... In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990112161736.006bfdd0@silverspin.net> References: <369BDA76.BE9A466B@serv.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >>A list web site would be a great place to post pics of stuff we do. I just >>don't know if I have the capabilities. > >I would be willing to do something like this... I have the server space, I >can make the pages, I even have the capability to scan stuff for people if >they can't do it themselves. Please do this? Big please (see below) PLEASEPLEASEPLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASEPLEASEPLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASEPLEASEPLEASE PLEASEPLEASEPLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASEPLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASEPLEASEPLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASEPLEASEPLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASEPLEASEPLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASEPLEASE PLEASEPLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASEPLEASEPLEASE PLEASEPLEASEPLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASEPLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASEPLEASEPLEASE Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 16:00:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA22948 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:00:17 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA12241; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:10:14 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA00113 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:07:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA29975 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:07:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (pilot [129.127.36.15]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id HAA31753 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 07:37:44 +1030 (CST) Received: by pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.61+IDA+MU/UA-5.23) id AA08512; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 07:37:43 +1030 Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 07:37:43 +1030 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant X-Sender: csmart@pilot To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: re: mary magdalene In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Wed, 13 Jan 1999, Mara Riley wrote: > Didn't quite work, though, judging from the statues of Mary that show up > in the late Middle Ages/Renaissance, wearing nothing more than her hair > (strategically draped, of course). Are you sure that was Mary Magdalene? This is the common way of depicting St Agnes who was popular in the Middle Ages I believe. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 16:06:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA22980 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:06:30 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA13074; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:16:28 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA01370 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:14:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA01337 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:13:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.185] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 100Xbs-0000zH-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:13:53 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990113130726.00be6ca0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:08:51 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: H-COST: undergarments In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows This is why I was asking about those modern bra/corset things a while ago. I still haven't solved the problem. The best I can do is remove the underwires and slide the straps farther out on my shoulders. >Yup! I get mine at Wal-mart. I think there are a couple of brands that work >well. They're not >sports bras, but they're pretty substantial. I am rather well-endowed and I >was getting sick >of underwires poking me and digging into my flesh. The bras I wear now have >maybe a little >less support than ones with underwires, but I'm so much more comfortable! >Now if only I >can figure out how to keep the straps from digging into my shoulders.... > >--Jessica > >> >> -Poster: Betsy Perry >> >> Not terribly historic, but I've been able to find non-underwire, >> soft-cup (or is it cupless? Stretch material with no foam lining) >> brassieres at Target. One good brand is Hanes Her Way. >> Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 16:06:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA22979 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:06:30 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA13077; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:16:29 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA01371 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:14:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA01351 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:13:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.185] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 100Xbu-0000zH-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:13:55 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990113130949.00be5380@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:10:40 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Shakespeare in Love In-Reply-To: <19990113.105247.25342.42.seamstrix@juno.com> References: <4.1.19990112140846.00b9ce20@pop.slip.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >> I saw a smooth ochre-yellow glazed mug with >>a Ren Faire logo on it, being more of a potter. (He threw a piece of >>trash into it early on in the film.) >It wasn't a RenFaire mug, it was a souvenir of Stratford-On-Avon. It was >deliberately put there by the writer (Stoppard) to poke fun at the modern >Bard-mania. It's a total anachronism. That's all it was ever meant to be. >Personally I hope they are selling copies of it in Stratford when I go >next month because I'd cough up bucks for something that silly! Even I knew it HAD to be somebody's joke... Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 16:07:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA22989 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:07:31 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA13393; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:17:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA01708 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:15:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from epicurus.miningco.com (epicurus.miningco.com [207.122.100.23]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id OAA01693 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:15:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from LISA [209.162.71.46] by epicurus.miningco.com (AltaVista Mail V2.0/2.0 BL23 listener) id 0000_00fc_369d_1c4d_a22c; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:21:01 -0500 Message-Id: <4.1.19990113131141.0098f790@mail.tmsonline.com> X-Sender: reenactment@mail.miningco.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:14:24 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lisa Scovel Subject: Re: H-COST: Costume Contest etc... In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990113113800.00bba6c0@pop.slip.net> References: <3.0.1.32.19990112161736.006bfdd0@silverspin.net> <369BDA76.BE9A466B@serv.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lisa Scovel In the meantime, I'd love to do an article for my site about the list's creations if I could get pictures and descriptions of items... It's a place to start, anyway. I can also scan stuff for those who don't have scanners. At 11:44 AM 1/13/99 -0800, you wrote: > >-Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >>I would be willing to do something like this... I have the server space, I >>can make the pages, I even have the capability to scan stuff for people if >>they can't do it themselves. > >Please do this? Big please (see below) > >PLEASEPLEASEPLEASE >PLEASE PLEASE >PLEASE PLEASE >PLEASEPLEASEPLEASE _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 16:33:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA23340 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:33:44 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA16803; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:43:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA06100 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:40:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail-gw3.pacbell.net (mail-gw3.pacbell.net [206.13.28.55]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA06090 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:40:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-68-91.irvn11.pacbell.net [206.170.68.91]) by mail-gw3.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with ESMTP id NAA14963 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:40:38 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <369CA3A2.A9807E0B@pacbell.net> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:46:13 +0000 From: Dietmar Organization: Completely Disorganized X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-PBI-NC404 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re:book publication References: <36958049.A35DA6C@ndh.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Dietmar Greetings good gentles, Fran had asked: >> Who is the publisher? Did they put their address in the book? If so what >> is it? And what is the ISBN? Do you know how an American can buy a copy? Diana replied: > The publisher of the book is "Karfunkel Verlag" which is a small business > that also edits a German magazine for medieval reenactment. > The ISBN-Nr. is 3-9805642-2-3. > > To order it, I would try the German branch of amazon.com first, that`s > http://www.amazon.de I was hoping to sweep in and save the day, but it turned out to be more of a good news/bad news game. I checked last night. The good news is that there is indeed a German version of Amazon.com. The browser interface is almost identical to the American version. If you don't speak German (or not very well), you can open up two windows and use the different language versions side-by-side. The bad news is that they don't have this book (or some of the others that I'm looking for). Most of the others I was looking for are in the $100 range. :-( > If they don`t have it ,ask me again, I could order it here for you and > send it over. It costs 43,-DM, that`s about $ 26 (I would accept dollar > payment). Ach, Diana mein wunderschoene Leibling! ;-) > This is going to be the first book in a series, so I believe that other > editions will folllow dealing with earlier and later medieval periods. > I`ll keep you up to date! I'm drooling already!! In anticipation, Dietmar "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 16:40:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA23435 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:40:30 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA17789; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:50:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA07245 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:47:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA07221 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:47:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from 38.29.61.132 (ip132.phoenix8.az.pub-ip.psi.net [38.29.61.132]) by goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA16270 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:47:48 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <369CB20F.7C21@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:47:42 +0000 From: "S.B. McDaniel" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0-C-AICK1-2 (Macintosh; U; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Blonde Prostitutes References: <199901120140.SAA15591@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "S.B. McDaniel" Mon, 11 Jan 1999, Lynn Downward wrote: > > > I recall that in either ancient Greece or ancient Rome, prostitutes >were the only women to have blonde hair, but that's the only >connection I can remember. LynnD > Considering that the Italian noOnbility (Middle Ages, of course, not >ancient Rome) had a lot of Lombard blood, you'd expect them to have >blond hair. Which a number of them do, in paintings. So maybe >imitating the nobility was what prompted people to bleach thair hair. (Including ladies of ill repute.) Mara I'd tend to agree with Mara. There were periods of intense fashions for blonde hair in Ancient Rome, and one would expect prostitutes to follow these fashions. I don't know about "blonde" prostitutes in ancient Greece, though there were natural blondes in that population too. Sandy McDaniel (Yes, a blonde- doesn't that explain a lot?) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 16:51:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA23571 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:51:31 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA11796; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:06:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA27764 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:56:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA27635 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:56:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.165] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 100XKZ-00004j-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:56:00 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990113112354.00b63690@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:37:38 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: H-COST: Colours, laws against In-Reply-To: <199901121635.IAA02515@smtp.pacifier.com> References: <4.1.19990111213313.00bc6eb0@pop.slip.net> <001a01be3d93$2485fc00$90a06480@dsc> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >> I keep hearing the one about pink not being period, but I never believed >> that one. It's too easy to get, if only by dying with the lees of the red. > >I think that pink is period but dying with the lees was something >that was avoided. I don't have time to look it up now but I've seen >statutes where it was illegal to sell them, That there are statutes against any practice tells us that somebody had been doing the proscribed thing. Human nature tells us that not everybody stops doing something the minute it becomes against the law, especially if there's a market for it. This seems to be a social class question. I can't believe the lower classes didn't use all the lees they had to get any colours people of their time could imagine. (Not that I believe they could imagine all the colours I can imagine.) And there had to be some dying operations too small or too non-commercial for the authorities to notice. That would explain why peasant garb is so many different colours of brownish, yellowish, and greenish. letters where it was >discussed as something to be avoided as low class and numerous things >which indicated that the medievals preferred intense colors requiring >several overdyings to make sure that it was as intense as possible. >True pastels were not popular until late Elizabethan. The pinks that >I have seen in tapestries were not baby pink but intense pinks (deep >roses, brilliant peach, almost fluorescent pinks in some cases.) > Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 16:55:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA23635 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:55:32 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA19366; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:05:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA09835 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:03:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.31]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA09793 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:02:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.58.219 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:02:29 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: ethnic costume resource books Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:05:34 -0500 Message-ID: <000401be3f41$05bc4040$201fffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990113120132.00bbfc50@pop.slip.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" I saw the Topkapi Textiles book when I was in Turkey, and it was enormously expensive and insufficient content for my taste. A coffee table book. There a lot of full page photos of the actual silk fabric, showing the weave, which was not hugely unusual, just fine. So I guess if you want magnified photos of fabric it's OK, but really lacking something I thought for the price. Turkish sultans typically wore caftans with enormous patterns on them, typically repeating only three times from hem to collar. Some are smaller, but still no smaller than the size of a big fist. Hugely geometric, the most of the patterns in the book do not rely on the weave for their pattern or beauty like a detailed plaid or fruit and flower brocade. So I thought all the expensive close-up detail was sort of a waste. No interior photos of the garments that I recall. The silk woven or maybe tablet woven or passementerie braids and covered buttons benefit from the close-up photography, but there is still a lot of book and price for the content. ILL this one before you buy it. I didn't see the other books in the series, but am also interested in the references. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Carolyn Kayta Barrows Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 1999 3:02 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: H-COST: ethnic costume resource books -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >The Topkapi Palace Museum actually published a series of books and one of >them is on textiles. It has a number of photos of surviving caftans from >about 16th century on. If anyone is interested I'll dig out the book and >post the info. > Please post this. I am drooling in my (ethnic) shoes in anticipation. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 16:57:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA23667 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:57:23 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA11863; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:06:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA27769 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:56:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA27690 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:56:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.165] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 100XKh-00004j-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:56:08 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990113120427.00bbc240@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:34:07 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: H-COST: hand-me-downs In-Reply-To: <369C67DC.9A0@mc.net> References: <199901130615.XAA13441@indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >I read somewhere that a lot of nobility would pass on their "old" >(already wore it once? :-)) garments to "lesser" nobility, servants and >the like... Seems to me that some of the sturdier garments could have >been hand-me-downed enough times to make it to the middle classes. And >yes, the reds would fade - I've had that happen plenty with *modern* >dyes! One of the 'perks' of being a servant was getting these hand-me-downs. These would either be remodeled and worn, or sold to a used clothing dealer. Often trim from one garment was reused on another garment. It doesn't take more than one or two remodelings before a dress is completely used up. This is why more period bodices than period skirts have survived. And fashion changes with time, so when unfashionable garments are handed down either they get remade into fashionable ones or they get worn by less fashionable people. Of course the jewels would not be handed down with the dress. My guess is that the lesser nobility would have used up these garments before they ever got as far as the middle class since the garments wouldn't have survived more than a couple of handings. And a middle class woman would have to be careful where she wore a second-hand dress fancy enough to have belonged to a noble lady, so she'd have to be careful not to buy something too fancy for her class. (OK, I can see her wanting some upward mobility and buying something a teensy bit above her usual class...) Davenport writes that James I 's queen inherited Elizabeth I 's wardrobe, and had some pieces remodeled for herself (ill.1469, p.561-2). Davenport shows a used clothing dealer in a 'dance of death' set of pictures from 1486 (ills.899-902, p.344). She's as overdressed as a modern flea market antique dealer (two necklaces, two pouches, a belt with a clasp, a headdress jewel and another jewel on her sleeve). There are seven contemporary women to compare her with. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 16:58:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA23700 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:58:57 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA19762; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:09:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA10604 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:06:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from dillinger.io.com (ches@dillinger.io.com [199.170.88.11]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA10580 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:06:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (ches@localhost) by dillinger.io.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA22763 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:06:32 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: dillinger.io.com: ches owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:06:32 -0600 (CST) From: ches To: Multiple recipients of list H-COSTUME Subject: H-COST: Gloves (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: ches If anyone lives in austin texas that makes gloves this lady could use your help. I normally do not do out of town weddings because too many things go wrong. Let me know if you all can help her. Ches ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:02:36 -0600 From: cayoung@mail.utexas.edu To: ches@io.com Subject: Gloves Help! I found your glove website while desperately looking for someone to make a custom pair of long satin gloves for my sister. She is getting married here in Austin on February 6, and her dress is an unusual shade of ivory. We have been unable to find any gloves to match. The dress maker will sell us the fabric for gloves - but I can't find anyone who makes them. Do you make gloves for other people? Is it hopeless?? Any help, advice, etc. that you can offer would be greatly appreciated. In fact, if you are willing to talk on the phone, please send me your number and I will call you. Thank you, C. Young _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 17:02:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA23763 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:02:50 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA20276; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:12:57 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA09413 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:01:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from jezebel.newdream.net (root@jezebel.newdream.net [207.155.127.148]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA09341 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:00:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from acc-1.imag.net (acc-1.imag.net [204.244.221.221]) by jezebel.newdream.net (8.8.8/8.8.8/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id OAA20906 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:00:37 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990113140122.006c7950@silverspin.net> X-Sender: karla@silverspin.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:01:22 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Karla Sexsmith Subject: Re: H-COST: Costume Contest etc... In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990113113800.00bba6c0@pop.slip.net> References: <3.0.1.32.19990112161736.006bfdd0@silverspin.net> <369BDA76.BE9A466B@serv.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Karla Sexsmith >> >>I would be willing to do something like this... I have the server space, I >>can make the pages, I even have the capability to scan stuff for people if >>they can't do it themselves. > >Please do this? Big please (see below) Ok! Is the consensus that this is ok for me to do? But I need input from the list members! Pictures, articles, etc... do we want a member section? I can do the design, but to be honest, I'd only been on the list a day when I volunteered for this :) Although, I've been on it before, so I'm not completely new, and I've been in the SCA for about 2 years, so I know some about costuming... but my strength is in webdesign. I'm sure I can come up with lots of links and stuff, but you guys will have to help provide content... And if anyone wants to take advantage of my scanning services, email me privately for my mailing address. Karla _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 17:12:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA23919 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:12:08 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA21548; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:22:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA12819 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:19:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-12.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.41]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA12813 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:19:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from [194.222.199.37] (helo=montgomerie.demon.co.uk) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 100YdZ-0005fl-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 22:19:42 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 22:18:03 +0000 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: H-COST: 'baby walker' Elizabethan In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990113114444.00b645a0@pop.slip.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a <$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Jean Waddie In message <4.1.19990113114444.00b645a0@pop.slip.net>, Carolyn Kayta Barrows writes > >-Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > > >>I recently did a elizabethan for my 3 yr old that I am glad to say was one >>of the winners of the "Well Dressed Child" contest at Twelfth Night, this >>last weekend. > >I made an Elizabethan for my oldest kid for her first Twelfth Night, when >she was just learning to walk. I made the drum farthingale out of a >circular-top baby walker from a thrift store. I gave her dress leading >strings, and used them in their period function as kid leashes when she was >in the walker. I was able to pick her up out of the walker when she needed >picking up, so I had to make the walker a petticoat/cover. It was fun. > >Wheeled baby walkers are period from at least the 1400's, as shown in a >woodcut in the Dover history of woodcuts. They even occur in doll houses >from the 1600's, by which time they have casters! > >A quick off-topic note - one of the historic houses in Edinburgh has one of these baby walkers, probably about 17th century. There has been a lot in the news recently about baby walkers causing injuries by children falling down stairs in them, or pulling things down on top of them. The period one shows clearly that modern ones are missing the point - the baby walker is square, and its base is wider than the doorways of the room or the child's reach. Its function is to stop the child going where it shouldn't. Jean >Kayta > ////.\\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ((( > | -- )))) > * ) ((((( > /----\ /---\ > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME -- Jean Waddie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 17:26:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA24123 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:26:21 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA23339; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:36:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA15289 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:34:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA15262 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:33:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA13963 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:33:53 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <369D1F6B.2314808@serv.net> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:34:20 -0800 From: Merouda the True X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: H-COST on line References: <3.0.1.32.19990112161736.006bfdd0@silverspin.net> <369BDA76.BE9A466B@serv.net> <3.0.1.32.19990113140122.006c7950@silverspin.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Merouda the True What a fantastic offer! Let's change the subject head line. :) Cynthia > Ok! Is the consensus that this is ok for me to do? > But I need input from the list members! Pictures, articles, etc... do we > want a member section? -- Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 17:48:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA24431 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:48:28 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA25824; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:58:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA19281 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:55:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from m20.boston.juno.com (m20.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.190]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA19239 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:55:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (from mor-plentyn@juno.com) by m20.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id DYVLDYUL; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:54:36 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:01:48 -0800 Subject: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #36 Message-ID: <19990113.143340.-116567.0.mor-plentyn@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-60 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: mor-plentyn@juno.com (Carmen J Beaudry) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: mor-plentyn@juno.com (Carmen J Beaudry) I saw your child with a couple others also suitably dressed playing ring-around-the-rosy in the lobby. It was one of the magic moments that made the event for me. Melusine d'Argent >- -Poster: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" > >Greetings, list! > >I recently did a elizabethan for my 3 yr old that I am glad to say was >one >of the winners of the "Well Dressed Child" contest at Twelfth Night, >this >last weekend. > >I made it out of a black silk (well, I got the silk cheap...) with a >pansy >motif woven in damask style. Using one of the dresses in QEWU as a >guide, I >did the sleeves out of white taffeta with black flocking. The sleeves >were >puffy at the head and fitted at the wrist. Also I had hanging >sleeves, >lined with the white taffeta. The hanging sleeves hung to the hem. I >hand >stitched the gold trim around the edges of the hanging sleeves and on >the >front of the gown (diagonally from neckline corners to waist point). >The >bodice of the gown is fully lined and interlined with horsehair >interfacing. >If I hadn't taken ill I would had time to do a proper corset and >farthingale >for her. Those will be next. > >I also did cartridge pleating for the first time and could have shot >myself >for not doing it before! It's easy and I found the drape of the skirt >to be >just what I was hoping it would do. I plan on doing it on all my >Italian >rens from now on, too! > >The chemise I gathered the fullness of the neckline and sleeves into a >band >with a pleated ruffle. I handstitched the band onto the body of the >chemise >and liked doing that as well. I found I was able to control the >gathering >much better than doing by machine. I also handstitched the ties into >the >bands. > >I cheated and used my serger for the long seam of the skirt. > >The next elizabethan I plan to make I will do a french seam on the >skirt. > >Gia/Giacinta >costuming nut ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 18:02:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA24664 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:02:55 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA27508; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:13:00 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA22270 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:10:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA22216 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:10:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from test (ip220-6.cc.interlog.com [207.34.220.6]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA23505 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:09:55 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990113175946.009067c0@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:59:46 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: RE: H-COST: ethnic costume resource books In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990113120132.00bbfc50@pop.slip.net> References: <3.0.1.32.19990112221609.009473c0@mail.interlog.com> <000501be3e75$a88d97a0$551fffd0@default> <369B9C9E.ADD6BAEE@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >>The Topkapi Palace Museum actually published a series of books and one of >>them is on textiles. It has a number of photos of surviving caftans from >>about 16th century on. If anyone is interested I'll dig out the book and >>post the info. >Please post this. I am drooling in my (ethnic) shoes in anticipation. Well here it is: The Topkapi Saray Museum Costumes, Embroideries and other Textiles translated, expanded and edited by J.M. Rogers from the original Turkish by Hulye Tezcan and Selma Delibas (with an umlaut over the "u" and a vergule under the last "s") A New York Graphic Society Book Little, Brown and Company Boston, c 1986 ISBN: 0-8212-1634-1 Library of Congress #: 86-61004 Although you don't see the insides, you can still derive a great deal of detail from what you do see. I personally really like the book, the photos are WONDERFUL. Enjoy. Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 18:10:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA24838 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:10:19 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA28580; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:20:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA23527 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:18:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from proxy3.ba.best.com (root@proxy3.ba.best.com [206.184.139.14]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA23506 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:17:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from best.com (lavolta.vip.best.com [206.86.95.234]) by proxy3.ba.best.com (8.9.1/8.9.0/best.out) with ESMTP id PAA21803 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:16:41 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <369D2734.187C3DB5@best.com> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:07:32 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Costume Contest etc... References: <3.0.1.32.19990112161736.006bfdd0@silverspin.net> <369BDA76.BE9A466B@serv.net> <3.0.1.32.19990113140122.006c7950@silverspin.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lavolta Press > > > Ok! Is the consensus that this is ok for me to do? What exactly are you planning? > > > But I need input from the list members! Pictures, articles, etc... do we > want a member section? I would suggest including a page with information on the charter of h-costume, instructions on how to sign on (maybe an automatic sign-on), so people surfing the web hear about the list and can join it. Also a page of links to costume-related web sites owned by members. Fran ---------------------------------------------- Visit our web sites! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.best.com/~lavolta/index.htm Vintage and historic dance http://www.best.com/~lavolta/dance/index.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 18:28:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA25113 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:28:38 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA24616; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:47:53 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA17373 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:45:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA17344 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:45:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA13989 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:45:05 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <369D220B.FECAC7C4@serv.net> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:45:31 -0800 From: Merouda the True X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Colours, laws against References: <4.1.19990111213313.00bc6eb0@pop.slip.net> <001a01be3d93$2485fc00$90a06480@dsc> <4.1.19990113112354.00b63690@pop.slip.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Merouda the True > >> I keep hearing the one about pink not being period, but I never believed > >> that one. It's too easy to get, if only by dying with the lees of the red. I have a weaver/dyer friend and her favorite in period (SCA) color is madder pink. Cynthia -- Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 18:45:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA25330 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:45:02 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA02527; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:55:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA29539 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:52:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from tor-smtp2.netcom.ca (tor-smtp2.netcom.ca [207.181.101.101]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA29531 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:52:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from default (trt-on26-46.netcom.ca [207.181.102.46]) by tor-smtp2.netcom.ca (8.8.7-s-4/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA15042 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:52:11 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <008001be3f50$7ca87160$2e66b5cf@default> From: "David Stamper & Eve Harris" To: Subject: H-COST: Yellow = Prostitute Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:57:30 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "David Stamper & Eve Harris" Okay, to continue the yellow question, I got out _Lives of the Courtesans_ by Lynne Lawner again. "An interesting characteristic of some Magdalene paintings is the presence of the yellow shawl courtesans were required by law to wear as an insignia of their profession: it was similar to the yellow stars and armbands that have identified Jews through the centuries as protected or persecuted pariahs. By the sixteenth century, in Venice and many other places, courtesans no longer had to wear the yellow veil, but procuresses wore them, and painters evidently did not forget that courtesans had been subjected to this ignominy." p. 178 Here's an example of Venetian sumptuary laws from 1562 (p. 25, same book): "Prostitutes of this city are forbidden to wear gold, silver, or silk, except for caps made of pure silk. They are not to wear chains, rings set with precious stones, or any other kind of ring or earring. In addition, they are not to wear any jewels, real or false, and this applies both inside and outside their houses, even when they are outside the city. Furnishings must comply in every way to the law. There should not be anything of silk in the house. Forbidden are tapestries, fancy materials on the walls, elaborate headboards (spalliere), decorated chests, gilded leathers (cuori d' oro). Instead, prostitutes are to use only Bergamasque or Brescian materials (rough materials manufactured on the mainland, mainly for export), fifty percent wool, plainly striped or coloured as they are nowadays. They are not allowed to slash these materials (in order to insert, ribbon-style, more precious ones); if they do, they will be fined 10 ducats the first time and banished the next time." A cursory glance at the relevant portraiture of the time shows that these rules were not obeyed in the slightest. Eve Harris _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 18:48:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA25367 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:48:02 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA02756; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:58:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA00137 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:55:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA29997 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:55:26 -0700 (MST) From: Seton1355@aol.com Received: from Seton1355@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id VBTEa20555 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:53:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:53:49 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: 'baby walker' Elizabethan Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 236 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Seton1355@aol.com Dear Katya, Your baby walker outfit sounds so cool! Any way to see pictures? Phillipa _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 18:52:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA25437 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:52:45 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA03202; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:03:02 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA01147 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:00:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.pacifier.com (root@smtp.pacifier.com [199.2.117.96]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA01132 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:00:32 -0700 (MST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: from grendal2 (ip44.van20.pacifier.com [216.65.138.44]) by smtp.pacifier.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA26957 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:00:30 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901140000.QAA26957@smtp.pacifier.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:00:50 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: 'baby walker' Elizabethan Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <4.1.19990113114444.00b645a0@pop.slip.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > >A quick off-topic note - one of the historic houses in Edinburgh has > one of these baby walkers, probably about 17th century. There has been > a lot in the news recently about baby walkers causing injuries by > children falling down stairs in them, or pulling things down on top of > them. The period one shows clearly that modern ones are missing the > point - the baby walker is square, and its base is wider than the > doorways of the room or the child's reach. Its function is to stop the > child going where it shouldn't. None of the walkers I've seen from the 14th century through at least the 16th Century would prevent the child's reach or keep them from tipping or going through doorways. One of the most common things which maimed and killed children of that time is falling into the fire. Leading strings attached to the backs of the doublet or shoulders of the tunic is something you also see with the pre16th century. This is so charming (and very costume oriented;) and it works. Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 19:22:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA25806 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:22:09 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA06242; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:32:22 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA05748 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:29:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from m16.boston.juno.com (m16.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.192]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA05735 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:29:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m16.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id DYVRTEVU; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:29:19 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: undergarments Message-ID: <19990113.161401.4783.2.cley@juno.com> References: <4.1.19990113130726.00be6ca0@pop.slip.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 5-10,12-58 From: cley@juno.com (cynthia j ley) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:29:19 EST Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: cley@juno.com (cynthia j ley) I can't stand underwires. I found some bras at Modern Woman that are nothing more or less than cotton and Lycra in all the right places. Not busty, but sing, and have a huge rib cage to get around. These fit perfectly and are very comfortable. No, I have no affiliation with the company. But I find clothes there that fit when they're otherwise nowhere to be found. Arlys On Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:08:51 -0800 Carolyn Kayta Barrows writes: > >-Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > >This is why I was asking about those modern bra/corset things a while >ago. >I still haven't solved the problem. The best I can do is remove the >underwires and slide the straps farther out on my shoulders. > >>Yup! I get mine at Wal-mart. I think there are a couple of brands >that work >>well. They're not >>sports bras, but they're pretty substantial. I am rather well-endowed >and I >>was getting sick >>of underwires poking me and digging into my flesh. The bras I wear >now have >>maybe a little >>less support than ones with underwires, but I'm so much more >comfortable! >>Now if only I >>can figure out how to keep the straps from digging into my >shoulders.... >> >>--Jessica >> >>> >>> -Poster: Betsy Perry >>> >>> Not terribly historic, but I've been able to find non-underwire, >>> soft-cup (or is it cupless? Stretch material with no foam lining) >>> brassieres at Target. One good brand is Hanes Her Way. >>> > > >Kayta > ////.\\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ((( > | -- )))) > * ) ((((( > /----\ /---\ > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 19:24:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA25816 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:24:40 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA06601; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:34:53 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA06317 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:32:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f212.hotmail.com [207.82.251.103]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id RAA06306 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:32:21 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 18021 invoked by uid 0); 14 Jan 1999 00:31:50 -0000 Message-ID: <19990114003150.18019.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.95.7.144 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:31:50 PST X-Originating-IP: [128.95.7.144] From: "Ms Blasta" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: re: mary magdalene Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:31:50 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Ms Blasta" I've always seen Agnes portrayed holding a lamb (Agnes = latin Agnus) > >Are you sure that was Mary Magdalene? This is the common way of depicting >St Agnes who was popular in the Middle Ages I believe. > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 19:36:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA25873 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:36:16 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA08071; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:46:34 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA07734 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:44:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo23.mx.aol.com (imo23.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.67]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA07725 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:44:03 -0700 (MST) From: Seton1355@aol.com Received: from Seton1355@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 5DCSa07005 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:39:51 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <4d59176d.369d3cd7@aol.com> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:39:51 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: H-COST on line Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 236 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Seton1355@aol.com Imust have missed something. Can someone please fill me in? Thanks, Phillipa In a message dated 1/13/99 5:34:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, keltia@serv.net writes: > > What a fantastic offer! Let's change the subject head line. :) Cynthia > > > Ok! Is the consensus that this is ok for me to do? > > But I need input from the list members! Pictures, articles, etc... do we > > want a member section? > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 19:44:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA25915 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:44:18 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA08902; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:54:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA08755 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:52:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from VAX5.ACER.EDU.AU (vax5.acer.edu.au [203.2.133.50]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA08740 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:52:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from exchange.acer.edu.au ([203.2.133.26]) by vms.acer.edu.au (PMDF V5.1-12 #22802) with ESMTP id <01J6J38ULE3Y8WWNXS@vms.acer.edu.au> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:54:06 +1100 Received: by exchange.acer.edu.au with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:46:59 +1100 Content-return: allowed Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:46:57 +1100 From: Harvey Georgia Subject: Re: H-COST: 1940's-50's undergarments To: "'H-costume'" Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Harvey Georgia - -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >I wonder why I think that corsets were rather charming, but modern girdles are >horrible? I love the "New Look" but I'd never wear what those women wore to >get it! Are other historic costumers of like opinion, or is it just me? And >just how many people wear foundation garments all the time today? Judging from >the department store, a lot more than I thought! The best solution for 1940's-50's is to wear a one-piece garment which includes bra and girdle in the same garment. These are 40's-50's period things, and are enough like a corset that if you can wear a Victorian/Edwardian one you can successfully wear one of them. --- I'd *love* to try one of these, but they are impossible to get in large cup sizes, unless you are large all over. I have enough problems not being able to buy a bra in this *country* that's a 34FF, without trying to get a 'foundation garment' the same size. Does anybody know of anywhere that makes them in larger cup sizes, but with smaller body sizes? Or even second-hand ? _sarcasm on_ Altough it seems to me that breasts mustn't have been that big in the 50s. There are no older styles bigger than about a D cup around. _sarcasm off_ What did larger busted women do? Same as I do now - squash into something smaller? Georgia _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 19:58:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA25974 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:58:20 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA10173; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:08:28 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA10490 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:05:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from tor-smtp2.netcom.ca (tor-smtp2.netcom.ca [207.181.101.101]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA10485 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:05:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from default (trt-on23-45.netcom.ca [207.181.99.109]) by tor-smtp2.netcom.ca (8.8.7-s-4/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA07547 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:05:23 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <006201be3f5a$b63cd880$6d63b5cf@default> From: "David Stamper & Eve Harris" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Cuff puzzle in painting Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:10:42 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "David Stamper & Eve Harris" Here's another link: (the one Teddy provided doesn't work from my server) http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/m/mabuse/baudouin.jpg >What puzzles me is that under the ruffles at the wrists of the shirt >there is a row of tabs/picadils. I thought a first that the subject >might be wearing gloves, and these tabs were decorating the opening >at the wrist, but on closer inspection, the finger-nails are visible >on at least the left hand of the sitter. >Is this man wearing another, long sleeved, garment *under* that >beautiful shirt, the only part visible being the picadils/tabs at >the wrist?? The first impression I got was that he was wearing a leather doublet underneath (strange!!!). The picadilled cuffs look very leathery, especially when you consider the width between snips, there's no evident fraying, and the colour - a sort of light rose-orange - is also suggestive. Or is it possible that this fabric has been sewn on beneath as a guard to protect the delicately pleated cuffs? He's wearing three garments for certain - the creamy brocade robe, the slashed black doublet, the very full and decorated shirt. Is it possible that he is also wearing a leather underdoublet and perhaps an undershirt beneath that, for comfort? Eve Harris _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 20:18:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA26091 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:18:11 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA12265; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:28:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA12825 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:25:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from mx.serv.net (mx.serv.net [205.153.153.234]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA12806 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:25:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from gia-g (dialup741.serv.net [207.207.65.105]) by mx.serv.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA07011 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:25:28 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <001d01be3f5d$4198e480$6941cfcf@gia-g> From: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" To: Subject: H-COST: Baa baa black sheep? Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:28:18 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" Greetings, again! I was singing the nursery rhyme with my Amybyrlee when I became curious...Were there sheep with black wool, medievally? Where would one find such a beastie, if there were black wool producing sheep? Or is this a rather modern genetically induced sheep? Gia/Giacinta costuming nut, ever curious... _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 20:18:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA26095 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:18:16 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA12271; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:28:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA12828 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:25:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from mx.serv.net (mx.serv.net [205.153.153.234]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA12815 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:25:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from gia-g (dialup741.serv.net [207.207.65.105]) by mx.serv.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA07005 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:25:26 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <001c01be3f5d$40e042e0$6941cfcf@gia-g> From: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" To: Subject: H-COST: leading strings Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:23:59 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" Love the walker idea! When Ambyr was about 1, I did a dress for her with leading strings. Wonderful for going through merchants row! A walker wasn't really practical for me, though, for she was a 'climber' before she was a 'walker' and she kept escaping from the walker! So leading strings worked better. I also did a stroller 'cozy' out of a tapestry type of material so that the modern stroller was 'hidden'. Not period (I think?) but it worked especially when she needed a nap and wouldn't lay down. A spin in the stroller usually did the trick to get her nodding off! Giacinta _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 20:32:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA26162 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:32:56 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA14762; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:43:04 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA14414 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:40:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA14401 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:40:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.217.218.66] (ell136.acadia.net [205.217.218.120]) by p2.acadia.net (8.8.5/8.8.6) with SMTP id UAA23059 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:40:10 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:40:14 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: flax / linen Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) <> I believe this got mentioned before, but perhaps it got lost in the other messages: until the 19th century, the word "linen" referred to fabric or thread from any of a variety of bast fibers, including (but not limited to) that from the flax plant. Therefore, a shift made of linen could have been made from flax or hemp, but the buyer wouldn't know (and most likely did not care.) On the other hand, today, upholsterers use the word linen to refer to a specific kind of fabric, which can be made from flax, cotton and/or synthetics. Deborah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 20:33:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA26169 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:33:12 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA14796; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:43:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA14442 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:40:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA14412 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:40:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.217.218.66] (ell136.acadia.net [205.217.218.120]) by p2.acadia.net (8.8.5/8.8.6) with SMTP id UAA23107 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:40:23 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:40:24 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: Waffen und Kostumkunde Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id UAA26169 Status: O -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) <<>Do you by any chance have information on the the Waffen und Kost¸mkunde publication? I've been trying to get my hands on some back issues.>> Waffen und Kostumkunde is a German publication, and a periodical, not a book. The articles are generally in the language they're submitted in, so there are some in English (Janet Arnold wrote several pieces for them). Some larger academic libraries get it; you may be able to get articles via ILL. Deb orah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 20:36:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA26187 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:36:55 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA15375; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:47:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA14816 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:44:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from komarr.local.thibault.org (mg134-121.ricochet.net [204.179.134.121]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA14796 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:44:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from ricochet.net (athene.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.14]) by komarr.local.thibault.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA02079 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:47:50 -0800 Message-ID: <369D4CD8.5881060A@ricochet.net> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:48:33 -0800 From: Cynthia Virtue Organization: Virtue Ventures http://www.virtue.to X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 'baby walker' Elizabethan References: <4.1.19990113114444.00b645a0@pop.slip.net> <199901140000.QAA26957@smtp.pacifier.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Cynthia Virtue Kat wrote: > None of the walkers I've seen from the 14th century through at least > the 16th Century would prevent the child's reach or keep them from > tipping or going through doorways. In the "Shakespeare's Birthplace" house in Stratford, there is a "child minder" that would prevent this. In the floor and ceiling, there is a socket, and into it is fitted a pole, so that it can turn freely. On the pole, at about the height of a child's waist, is a short horizontal bar, with a strap that would go around the child. The child can then run in circles (or possibly sit down, if the bar is adjustable) within a limited range -- never getting close to the fire or geting away to another room. And for the bra-questions, I swear by http://www.decentexposures.com =-=-=-=-= "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet LXXXI "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia Virtue _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 20:41:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA26237 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:41:08 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA16371; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:51:25 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA15330 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:48:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from komarr.local.thibault.org (mg134-121.ricochet.net [204.179.134.121]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA15317 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:48:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from ricochet.net (athene.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.14]) by komarr.local.thibault.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA02083 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:52:30 -0800 Message-ID: <369D4DF1.100BE186@ricochet.net> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:53:14 -0800 From: Cynthia Virtue Organization: Virtue Ventures http://www.virtue.to X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Cuff puzzle in painting References: <006201be3f5a$b63cd880$6d63b5cf@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Cynthia Virtue Eve Harris wrote: > http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/m/mabuse/baudouin.jpg > Or is it possible that this fabric has been sewn on beneath as a guard to > protect the delicately pleated cuffs? That would be my guess -- as the ground color of the embroidered collar on his shirt is very nearly the same color as the picadills. But I'm no expert. =-=-=-=-= "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet LXXXI "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia Virtue _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 21:17:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA26466 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 21:17:35 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA14853; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:43:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA14480 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:40:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA14463 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:40:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.217.218.66] (ell136.acadia.net [205.217.218.120]) by p2.acadia.net (8.8.5/8.8.6) with SMTP id UAA23132 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:40:32 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:40:36 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: for Janet's friends Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) The celebration of Janet Arnold's life will be held Sunday, April 25 at the Globe Theater in London. Doors will open at 5:30 p.m. It is indicative of the respect for Janet in the theater world that when the request was made for using one of the meeting rooms at the Globe, the management offered the entire theater complex. Everyone who knew Janet and her work are invited to come, but if you do plan to come, please call Susan North (171 938 8411) at the V&A and let her know, so they can have an idea of how many people are coming. The study day, in conjunction with the retrospective of Janet's work in the Costume and Textile Gallery of the V&A, will be the day before. Deborah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 21:51:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA26606 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 21:51:23 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA23666; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:01:49 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA23084 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:59:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from magpie.prod.itd.earthlink.net (magpie.prod.itd.earthlink.net [209.178.63.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA23062 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:59:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from alt1 (sdn-ar-001dcwashP294.dialsprint.net [168.191.22.32]) by magpie.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA22326 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:59:03 -0800 (PST) From: "Allison Thurman" To: Subject: H-COST: re: h-costume online Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 22:01:26 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2212 (4.71.2419.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.0810.800 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Allison Thurman" i would be interested in contributing to this! i am also a web developer and would like to help out. allison _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 21:59:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA26635 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 21:59:34 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA24521; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:10:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA23971 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:07:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from magpie.prod.itd.earthlink.net (magpie.prod.itd.earthlink.net [209.178.63.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA23964 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:07:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from alt1 (sdn-ar-001dcwashP294.dialsprint.net [168.191.22.32]) by magpie.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA28804 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:07:24 -0800 (PST) From: "Allison Thurman" To: Subject: H-COST: re:undergarments Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 22:09:47 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2212 (4.71.2419.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.0810.800 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Allison Thurman" this may be an odd question but it is on the undergarments topic: i am 25 years old. while i was growing up i remember battling my mother on sundays because she insisted i wear a slip with all my skirts - even thick winter ones. i always hated the things because they invariably had static cling and/or showed through the kickpleat. my mother still wears them with all her skirts, but ive not worn one in years - imho, if a skirt is THAT sheer i'll do without it. also, many ready-made skirts i see have built-in linings lately, particularly if they are part of a suit. is this just my peculiarity or does it seem like more women (or at least women my age) are shunning slips? is the garment industry making up for this by adding lining?just wondering. allison _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 22:14:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA26692 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 22:14:17 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA25972; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:24:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA25496 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:22:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA25491 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:22:10 -0700 (MST) From: Tsrra@aol.com Received: from Tsrra@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id NRCCa20553 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 22:15:25 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 22:15:25 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Baa baa black sheep? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 58 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Tsrra@aol.com In a message dated 99-01-13 20:29:15 EST, you write: << Were there sheep with black wool, medievally? Where would one find such a beastie, if there were black wool producing sheep? Or is this a rather modern genetically induced sheep? >> Colored sheep are what nature prefers. White is the 'genetically induced' color. My source tells me that they are currently working on an 'optically white' sheep. I cringe at the thought, and so, it seems, does Mother Nature. TS Ohara _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 22:30:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA26796 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 22:29:59 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA27863; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:40:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA27008 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:37:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (mailsorter-105.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.95]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA27000 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:37:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailtod-141.iap.bryant.webtv.net (mailtod-141.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.128]) by mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with ESMTP id TAA19599; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:37:32 -0800 (PST) Received: (from production@localhost) by mailtod-141.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/mt.gso.26Feb98) id TAA11409; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:37:32 -0800 (PST) X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAsAhRQd+dVvNhB41Y2R5N8MUSr8galKwIUEG34A7WlWJr5408Xc5W2algvZQU= From: starsinger@webtv.net (theresa sorrell) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:37:32 -0700 (MST) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Baa baa black sheep? Message-ID: <19033-369D667C-468@mailtod-141.iap.bryant.webtv.net> In-Reply-To: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" 's message of Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:28:18 -0800 Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: starsinger@webtv.net (theresa sorrell) My understanding of black sheep is that they are any sheep not white. Black, brown, grey/gray, any thing but white. White was desired becase it could be dyed. A true black sheep is usually black only for the first shirring after that the coat gets lighter and lighter shades of black due to exposure to the elements and age. Starsinger _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 22:44:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA26892 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 22:44:48 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA29070; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:55:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA28640 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:52:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA28633 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:52:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (pilot [129.127.36.15]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id OAA02810 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:22:27 +1030 (CST) Received: by pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.61+IDA+MU/UA-5.23) id AA11736; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:22:27 +1030 Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:22:25 +1030 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant X-Sender: csmart@pilot To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: re:undergarments In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Wed, 13 Jan 1999, Allison Thurman wrote: > i am 25 years old. while i was growing up i remember battling my mother on > sundays because she insisted i wear a slip with all my skirts - even thick > winter ones. i always hated the things because they invariably had static > cling and/or showed through the kickpleat. my mother still wears them with > all her skirts, but ive not worn one in years - imho, if a skirt is THAT > sheer i'll do without it. also, many ready-made skirts i see have built-in > linings lately, particularly if they are part of a suit. > > is this just my peculiarity or does it seem like more women (or at least > women my age) are shunning slips? is the garment industry making up for > this by adding lining?just wondering. > I'm about the same age as you Allison, and I used to wear a slip quite a bit when I was a kiddie. Although I haven't worn one since I was about 13 I think I still have one in my underwear drawer. My mother still occasionally wears one (she has a couple at full-length, not just skirts), usually under a see-through blouse. I can't say I've noticed an increase in lined skirts though. Mind you it's a while since I bought something in a standard clothes shop or department store. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 23:12:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA27015 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 23:12:26 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA01532; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 21:22:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA01505 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 21:20:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from mw1.texas.net (mw1.texas.net [206.127.30.11]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA01494 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 21:20:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from texas.net (tcnet08-16.austin.texas.net [209.99.35.142]) by mw1.texas.net (2.4/2.4) with ESMTP id WAA05766 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 22:20:00 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <369D7012.6E4163C3@texas.net> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 22:18:26 -0600 From: Christina X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 'baby walker' Elizabethan References: <4.1.19990113114444.00b645a0@pop.slip.net> <199901140000.QAA26957@smtp.pacifier.com> <369D4CD8.5881060A@ricochet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Christina > > > In the "Shakespeare's Birthplace" house in Stratford, there is a "child > minder" that would prevent this. In the floor and ceiling, there is a socket, > and into it is fitted a pole, so that it can turn freely. On the pole, at > about the height of a child's waist, is a short horizontal bar, with a strap > that would go around the child. The child can then run in circles (or > possibly sit down, if the bar is adjustable) within a limited range -- never > getting close to the fire or geting away to another room. Along the same subject, didn't the phrase "tied to her apron strings" refer to the practice of leashing one's kid to the ties on an apron? -Magdalena _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 23:24:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA27083 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 23:24:11 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA02698; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 21:34:46 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA02851 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 21:32:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA02840 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 21:32:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip60.an1-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.12.60]) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA19289 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:31:58 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <369D65DF.7EB9356B@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 23:34:57 -0400 From: Laurel Wilson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03C-NSCP (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: flax / linen References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Laurel Wilson Deborah Pulliam wrote: > - a shift made of linen could have been > made from flax or hemp, but the buyer wouldn't know (and most likely did > not care.) > It's my impression that the buyer most likely would have both known and cared, since hempen linen is apparently considerably coarser than flaxen linen, and apparently somewhat darker in color as well. Lauri _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 00:15:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA27900 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 00:15:05 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA04921; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 22:02:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA05315 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 21:59:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from sd.znet.com (sd.znet.com [207.167.64.5]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA05306 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 21:59:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.167.66.19] (sdts10-74.znet.net [207.167.66.74]) by sd.znet.com (8.9.2/8.9.2/jjb-sd) with ESMTP id UAA02361 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:59:36 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:59:36 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <369D4CD8.5881060A@ricochet.net> References: <4.1.19990113114444.00b645a0@pop.slip.net> <199901140000.QAA26957@smtp.pacifier.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Julie Adams Subject: Re: H-COST: 'baby walker' Elizabethan Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Julie Adams >-Poster: Cynthia Virtue > >Kat wrote: >> None of the walkers I've seen from the 14th century through at least >> the 16th Century would prevent the child's reach or keep them from >> tipping or going through doorways. In my recent find "Yesterday's Children" and in some of my German woodcuts as well, there are several examples of 16th c walkers that would keep them from tipping and would keep them out of reach of dangerous items. The bases are very wide and the child is held in the center. Julie Adams _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 00:23:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA27928 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 00:23:03 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA07247; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 22:33:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA08437 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 22:30:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA08432 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 22:30:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (pilot [129.127.36.15]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id QAA03069 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 16:00:32 +1030 (CST) Received: by pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.61+IDA+MU/UA-5.23) id AA12560; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 16:00:31 +1030 Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 16:00:30 +1030 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant X-Sender: csmart@pilot To: costume list Subject: H-COST: Peasant garb Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: The Purple Elephant I found a cheap piece of wool in the remnant box of a local fabric store, about the size to make a bodice, and have a strange hankering to make some nice accurate lower class garb....ie I don't want to make the standard SCA 'wenching' garb. I have been looking at the paintings of Pieter Brueghel (any idea where to find piccies of English peasants ?). I notice that in the summer scenes the women wear sleeveless bodices (sometimes with separate sleeves pinned on) and skirts. Some of the skirts are different colours from the bodices - does this mean they are separate objects or are they still seamed together? If the latter, would it be okay to make the skirt out of a different fabric, not just a different colour (ie say a linen skirt on a wool bodicve)? In the winter scenes the women wear closed, long-sleeved gowns. Would they likely be wearing these over the 'summer' garb described above? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 01:27:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA28446 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 01:27:11 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA11780; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 23:37:46 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA13254 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 23:34:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (root@jefferson.patriot.net [206.151.9.249]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA13249 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 23:34:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from [206.151.9.12] (th-0-3.patriot.net [206.151.9.12]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id BAA16115 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 01:30:19 -0500 Message-Id: <199901140630.BAA16115@jefferson.patriot.net> Subject: H-COST: Lecture on 1790s Date: Thu, 14 Jan 99 01:34:17 -0500 x-sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sat., Jan. 16, 1999, 1 p.m., Gadsby's Tavern Museum, 134 N Royal St., Alex. Va. 703-836-2863; Free w/admission or $4 for adults: "The 1790s: Bridging the Fashion Gap," Lecture by Alden O'Brien, Assoc. Curator of Costume, DAR Museum. "The 1790s is a fascinating but neglected decade in the history of costume. How did fashion make the transition from the stiff-bodied, voluminous dresses of George Washington's time to the soft, high-waisted styles of the era of Jane Austen? Both men's and women's fashions underwent a period of great innovation and experimentation." This lecture is a revised, expanded and improved (I hope) version of the lecture I gave at the 1st Gadsby's Symposium two years ago. Here I'll venture into men's dress a bit, and will go into details of construction of the variety of transitional styles that appear in the 1790s, with more conservative uses overlapping with newer styles and piecing methods. Some attention will be given to accessories and hair, but I want to concentrate on the dress construction overall--also the transitional underpinnings. Hope to see some of you there! No reservations necessary; for more info call 703-838-4605. Alden O'Brien _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 01:30:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA28459 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 01:30:18 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA11961; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 23:39:45 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA13361 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 23:36:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.mc.net (mail.mc.net [209.172.128.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id XAA13354 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 23:36:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 11628 invoked from network); 14 Jan 1999 06:38:08 -0000 Received: from tntmodem2-209.mc.net (HELO HEATHERL) (209.172.134.209) by mail.mc.net with SMTP; 14 Jan 1999 06:38:08 -0000 Message-ID: <369DB4A4.4BB3@mc.net> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 01:11:00 -0800 From: Heather Law Organization: Interstellar Trading Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: H-COST online References: <199901132245.PAA17407@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Rating: mail.mc.net 1.6.1 0/1000/N Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Heather Law Karla, Hope it's a go-ahead! I have Adobe Photoshop, (and other coolstuff) and if you don't, I'd like to volunteer my services for "cleaning up" photos and other graphics, such as "despeckling" drawings, sharpening photos, etc. I also have a program that can convert photos etc. to line art (might be useful for clarity if we decide to add a "reference section" sort of like a costuming FAQ ("I'm sure someone has asked this before but...) Please let me know if you need or want any of these services. In service, Heather Law/Sister Ed the Disorganized > - -Poster: Karla Sexsmith > > Ok! Is the consensus that this is ok for me to do? > > But I need input from the list members! Pictures, articles, etc... do we > want a member section? > > I can do the design, but to be honest, I'd only been on the list a day when > I volunteered for this :) Although, I've been on it before, so I'm not > completely new, and I've been in the SCA for about 2 years, so I know some > about costuming... but my strength is in webdesign. > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 02:27:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA28679 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 02:27:29 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id AAA14632; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 00:38:14 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id AAA16760 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 00:35:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail-gw3.pacbell.net (mail-gw3.pacbell.net [206.13.28.55]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id AAA16751 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 00:35:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-69-254.irvn11.pacbell.net [206.170.69.254]) by mail-gw3.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with ESMTP id XAA09408 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 23:35:12 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <369D2EB4.4330E07B@pacbell.net> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 23:39:33 +0000 From: Dietmar Organization: Completely Disorganized X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-PBI-NC404 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Cuff puzzle in painting References: <342DD1B1150@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Dietmar Greetings all, Teddy wrote: > What puzzles me is that under the ruffles at the wrists of the shirt there > is a row of tabs/picadils. I thought a first that the subject might be > wearing gloves, and these tabs were decorating the opening at the wrist, > but on closer inspection, the finger-nails are visible on at least the > left hand of the sitter. I may be in the minority, but I think that they are gloves. The color of the tabs are the same color as the rest of the hand and the 'fingernails' don't show enough detail. Tight fitting kid gloves can show that kind of detail. It's really tough to make a call based on the picture on the web, but until I see a better picture, I'm going to assume that there are gloves. Regards, Dietmar "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 02:34:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA28704 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 02:34:56 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id AAA14817; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 00:45:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id AAA17164 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 00:42:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from dub-img-4.compuserve.com (dub-img-4.compuserve.com [149.174.206.134]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id AAA17154 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 00:42:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from root@localhost) by dub-img-4.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.17) id CAA09510 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 02:42:20 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 02:41:58 -0500 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: flax/linen/hemp To: "INTERNET:h-costume-digest@indra.com" Message-ID: <199901140242_MC2-6691-AC7@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id CAA28704 Status: O -Poster: Melanie Wilson > - a shift made of linen could have been > made from flax or hemp, but the buyer wouldn't know (and most likely did > not care.) > >It's my impression that the buyer most likely would have both known and cared, since hempen linen is apparently considerably coarser than flaxen linen, and apparently somewhat darker in color as well. Yes indeed I cited a ref a while back about the class associations with wearing flax or hemp linen shirts ! It was in a Ciba review I think if anyone wants to look it up. Mel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 02:35:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA28711 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 02:35:01 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id AAA14834; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 00:45:53 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id AAA17166 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 00:42:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from dub-img-4.compuserve.com (dub-img-4.compuserve.com [149.174.206.134]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id AAA17156 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 00:42:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (from root@localhost) by dub-img-4.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.17) id CAA09516 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 02:42:21 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 02:42:01 -0500 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: Baa baa black sheep? To: "INTERNET:h-costume-digest@indra.com" Message-ID: <199901140242_MC2-6691-AC8@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id CAA28711 Status: O -Poster: Melanie Wilson Yes you can get black sheep (well amost black) I have a lovely Shetland fleece (black ) waiting to be spun, my understanding is dark brown was overdyed to produce black quite often. Older breeds of sheep are often Black or brown or grey or piebald (two colurs) I is easy , at least in the UK , to get fleeces from many different shades of sheep ! Mel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 03:34:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA01859 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 03:34:06 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id BAA16929; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 01:45:00 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id BAA19915 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 01:42:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from scorpion.netspace.net.au (scorpion.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.106]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id BAA19904 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 01:41:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from whirlwind.netspace.net.au (whirlwind.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.70]) by scorpion.netspace.net.au (8.9.1/8.9.1/NS) with ESMTP id TAA23112 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 19:42:07 +1100 (EST) Received: from netspace.net.au.netspace.net.au (dialup-t1-14.Melbourne.netspace.net.au [210.15.250.14]) by whirlwind.netspace.net.au (8.9.1/8.9.1/NS) with ESMTP id TAA21606 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 19:41:57 +1100 (EST) Message-Id: <199901140841.TAA21606@whirlwind.netspace.net.au> From: "Christopher Ballis" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: re: mary magdalene Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 19:47:51 +1100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Christopher Ballis" Dear all, Firstly, apologies for wading into off-topic territory. On the Mary Magdalene front, there is some evidence that mary was actually the wife of Jesus. Assorted Christian writers with an agenda of keeping Christ and the Apostles "pure", knew they could not easily write her out of history so dirtied her down instead. If you think of it, the idea of an unmairried 30-something rabbi in Isreal at that time is pretty hard to take. -C. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 04:21:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA02023 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:21:51 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id CAA19700; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 02:32:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id CAA21762 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 02:29:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id CAA21752 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 02:29:41 -0700 (MST) From: MaggiRos@aol.com Received: from MaggiRos@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id RDQFa04794 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:28:55 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1b111523.369db8d7@aol.com> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:28:55 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: pinking chisels Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 224 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com In a message dated 1/13/99 8:23:28 AM Pacific Standard Time, kayta@slip.net writes: > > Does he make these just for you, or does he make them for anyone who > asks/pays? I could sure use one or two of these myself, and I see this > person occasionally. If he made them they would look period enough to use > in public. LOL, I don't believe they're in his regular catalog. And as for looking period, they were pretty much raw flat stock, wedged into a chisel at one end. No finish. No handle/grip. No grace. Pure functionality. Period enough for me! Plus, it does the job without drawing against the leather. Lay it on the line, and strike! No drag, no guessing, no fuss. It has also been suggested that a shoemaker's knife (sort of a round edge with a handle in the middle) may have been the actual tool, but I'm quite sure the flat chisel and a hammer is plausible enough, lacking firm documentation otherwise. MaggiRos _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 04:35:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA02069 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:35:29 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id CAA20042; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 02:46:34 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id CAA22269 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 02:43:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id CAA22264 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 02:43:26 -0700 (MST) From: MaggiRos@aol.com Received: from MaggiRos@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id OUNUa00808 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:42:29 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3b5174a4.369dbc05@aol.com> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:42:29 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 224 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com In a message dated 1/11/99 12:22:42 AM Pacific Standard Time, raymond.wickham@customs.gov.au writes: > > -Poster: WICKHAM Raymond > > Two observations about the age concept > > A couple of replies to my original post have > > referred to 15-year-olds with small waists I bet they didn't keep past > > 18. Or past the second child! M.-R. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 04:36:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA02076 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:36:12 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id CAA20095; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 02:47:21 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id CAA22299 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 02:44:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id CAA22294 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 02:44:13 -0700 (MST) From: MaggiRos@aol.com Received: from MaggiRos@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id OAPGa05340 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:43:37 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:43:37 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: 15" waists - any surviving garments? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 224 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com In a message dated 1/11/99 5:38:25 AM Pacific Standard Time, Lissa@duchess.globalnet.co.uk writes: > > (who I met last year) and a very few others who have 15 inch waists. Such a > things > has, and still exists so why not also durung the 19th century as well? > As an anomoly, not as a rule. No more then than now? MaggiRos ~Not my period, not my problem _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 04:39:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA02089 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:39:49 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id CAA20206; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 02:50:25 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id CAA22401 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 02:47:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id CAA22391 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 02:47:15 -0700 (MST) From: MaggiRos@aol.com Received: from MaggiRos@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id TZHUa20555 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:46:31 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <573368a4.369dbcf7@aol.com> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:46:31 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: ACW Gloves for Daywear Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 224 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com In a message dated 1/11/99 7:23:07 AM Pacific Standard Time, oh_susannah@hotmail.com writes: > > Does ANYONE have a good idea or source for ACW-era reproduction gloves? > I would love a nice pair of plain, dove-grey ones for day wear. I am > not afraid to undertake the making of these gloves if I could find a > good pattern, preferable from an original pair. Help, help! > Hammer's in Hollywood (CA) is the only place I know for custom gloves. Being Hollywood, you tell therm what you need, they can do it. Not cheap, but there. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 04:42:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA02102 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:42:14 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id CAA20290; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 02:52:19 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id CAA22458 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 02:49:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo28.mx.aol.com (imo28.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.72]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id CAA22453 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 02:49:11 -0700 (MST) From: MaggiRos@aol.com Received: from MaggiRos@aol.com by imo28.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id HWPUa23181 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:48:35 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <5ce561a5.369dbd73@aol.com> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:48:35 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Color associations Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 224 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com In a message dated 1/11/99 8:36:42 AM Pacific Standard Time, kdyer@nash.tds.net writes: > > Has anyone else heard of red striped stockings being > associated with prostitutes? > No, but it sounds like just the sort of thing an honest woman would decry and a flash professional girl would adore! I wouldn't spend too much time on it. MaggiRos sometimes Clara Munter, the soldier's friend _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 04:44:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA02112 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:44:55 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id CAA20406; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 02:56:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id CAA22571 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 02:52:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id CAA22566 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 02:52:56 -0700 (MST) From: MaggiRos@aol.com Received: from MaggiRos@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id JIPUa20553 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:52:01 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3dcaf525.369dbe41@aol.com> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:52:01 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Color associations Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 224 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com Actually, we had a conversation somewhat like this a year or so ago. There is some argument for yellow (headress or sash) as an emblematic mark for light women/whores. But as someone else pointed out, not everywhere or at all times. The past is not all the same place. Does anyone still have that thread saved? MaggiRos ren.dm.net _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 04:45:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA02119 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:45:46 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id CAA20467; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 02:56:54 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id CAA22612 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 02:53:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id CAA22605 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 02:53:45 -0700 (MST) From: MaggiRos@aol.com Received: from MaggiRos@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id METGa05322 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:53:13 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:53:13 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Color associations Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 224 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com In a message dated 1/11/99 9:47:34 AM Pacific Standard Time, hope.greenberg@uvm.edu writes: > > I especially want to know if I need to tear those big yellow sleeves off my > early 16thc. Italian ren. Off hand, I'd say no. In the late 16th century English court, yellow was a colour of happiness and good cheer. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 04:54:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA02150 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:54:36 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id DAA20854; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 03:05:47 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id DAA22970 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 03:02:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.68]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id DAA22965 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 03:02:38 -0700 (MST) From: MaggiRos@aol.com Received: from MaggiRos@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id BXNWa03472 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 05:01:32 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <686698a5.369dc07c@aol.com> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 05:01:32 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Color associations Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 224 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com In a message dated 1/11/99 4:55:54 PM Pacific Standard Time, starsinger@webtv.net writes: > > The closet to yellow I can remember is the prostitutes were supposed to > be blonde or wear a blond wig. Anyone familiar with this one? LOL, no. But enough bleched their hair for blonde to perhaps become thought of as a sign of a loose woman. What must those Northern Italian girls have done to set themselves apart. MaggiRos who is sometimes Clara, who can make change in 5 languages _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 04:55:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA02158 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:55:51 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id DAA20930; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 03:07:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id DAA23022 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 03:03:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.73]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id DAA23010 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 03:03:51 -0700 (MST) From: MaggiRos@aol.com Received: from MaggiRos@aol.com by imo29.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 2XYUa01222 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 05:03:04 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <96b98c25.369dc0d8@aol.com> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 05:03:04 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Color associations Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 224 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com In a message dated 1/11/99 5:51:50 PM Pacific Standard Time, ldownward@mail.cho.org writes: > > I recall that in either ancient Greece or ancient Rome, prostitutes were > the only women to have blonde hair, but that's the only connection I can > remember. Because foreign women must, in Athens, be of questionable character. Any Macedonian woman ... Mistrust anything you think you remember M.-r. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 05:07:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA02217 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 05:07:35 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id DAA21255; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 03:18:47 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id DAA23872 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 03:15:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id DAA23761 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 03:15:29 -0700 (MST) From: MaggiRos@aol.com Received: from MaggiRos@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id XBGVa20554 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 05:14:55 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <41385326.369dc39f@aol.com> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 05:14:55 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #28 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 224 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com In a message dated 1/12/99 5:25:52 AM Pacific Standard Time, Schmitt100@aol.com writes: > > > Take a look at your Bible - that woman was NEVER identified; tradition/myth > ascribed her as Mary M. Trouble is, it takes more than one look, and it takes a certain amount of nerve to assemble your observations against what seems to be the prevailiing tradition. Tradition is a powerful thing. In some ways, it doesn't entirely matter what the truth may have been. What everyone believes is what everyone acts on. And as I said, in period, the Magdalene was identified with a certain thing for a certain reason. As a scholar, I am happier to know better, but in character, I have to remember to closet that understanding away. MaggiRos _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 05:25:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA02298 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 05:25:10 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id DAA22265; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 03:36:24 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id DAA18820 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 03:33:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id DAA18585 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 03:33:03 -0700 (MST) From: MaggiRos@aol.com Received: from MaggiRos@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 7OJLa19752 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 05:32:03 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 05:32:03 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Colours Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 224 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com In a message dated 1/12/99 8:36:07 AM Pacific Standard Time, kat@grendal.rain.com writes: > True pastels were not popular until late Elizabethan. Not popular isn't the same as not possible. The Wedding at Bermondsey shows at least one gown that is undeniably pink. Actually, I support the notion that the flower was called "pink" for its ruffled edge--as if cut with pinking shears. Carnation was an older color name, I believe, and that has a Latin root that takes us into other fields. The names of colors are their own reward. Why does "watchet" mean light blue? MaggiRos ~ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 05:56:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA02404 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 05:56:55 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id EAA23109; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:08:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id EAA29091 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:04:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.73]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id EAA29020 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:04:42 -0700 (MST) From: MaggiRos@aol.com Received: from MaggiRos@aol.com by imo29.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id TGOWa01223 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 06:03:35 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 06:03:35 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST:Yellow/prostitutes Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 224 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com Ah-ha! Ok, here's the one post I kept from the last time this came up, uhm oh dear, more like 18 months ago. I admire this principally for its use of documentation. MaggiRos =========== Subj: H-COST: restrictions on prostitutes (colors,etc.) Date: 97-06-11 10:17:46 EDT From: talk2meg@mychoice.net (Mary-Gayle Jany) Sender: h-costume-approval@world.std.com Reply-to: talk2meg@mychoice.net (Mary-Gayle Jany) To: h-costume@world.std.com -Poster: "Mary-Gayle Jany" Bill asked: Have you got any ref.s for this? I have been trying to track down this association of yellow headdress and prostitution in the 13th cent Someone has finally asked a question that I can help answer! The following references not only have the information about colors, but also explain all the restrictions prostitutes were governed by. The references are fully documented from primary sources (laws and ordinances within various countries and cities). Bassermann, Lujo. _The Oldest Profession: A History of Prostitution_. trans. from German by James Cleugh. New York: Dorset Press, 1993. (ISBN: 0-88029-248-2) Goldberg, P. J. P. _Women, Work, and Life Cycle in a Medieval Economy: Women in York and Yorkshire c.1300-1520_. Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1992. Rossiaud, Jacques. _Medieval Prostitution_. trans. by Lydia G. Cochrane. New York: Basil Blackwell, Inc., 1988. (ISBN: 0-631-15141-9) Wiesner, Merry E. _Working Women in Renaissance Germany_. New Brunswick, NJ: Rutgers U. Press, 1986. (ISBN: 0-8135-1138-0) Hope these help. M _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 06:04:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA02437 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 06:04:07 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id EAA23270; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:15:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id EAA13772 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:12:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [195.194.177.11]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id EAA13466 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:11:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from csv6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA01952.; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:15:10 GMT Received: from staff-Message_Server by csv6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:11:30 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5 Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:10:55 +0000 From: "KATE M BUNTING" To: Subject: H-COST: baa baa black sheep Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id GAA02437 Status: O -Poster: "KATE M BUNTING" It's my understanding that the occasional black sheep crops up naturally in a flock, but was regarded as a nuisance because the wool couldn't be dyed - hence the expression "black sheep of the family" for an embarrassing relation. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 06:09:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA02456 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 06:09:35 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id EAA23456; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:20:53 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id EAA22856 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:17:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from server1.mich.com (root@server1.mich.com [198.108.16.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id EAA22846 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:17:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from raille (pm187-28.dialip.mich.net [198.110.44.38]) by server1.mich.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA06289 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 06:17:29 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990114062358.007ac860@onramp.i2k.com> X-Sender: alwen@onramp.i2k.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 06:23:58 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Lynn Carpenter Subject: H-COST: Black sheep Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lynn Carpenter The "black" of a black sheep is a sort of "rusty black," which was probably another reason it was a less desirable color. While black fabric was often desired, the "rusty black", sort of like a bad hair dye, was not. Lynn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 06:21:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA02500 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 06:21:26 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id EAA23810; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:32:47 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id EAA23945 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:29:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from sand2.global.net.uk (sand2.global.net.uk [194.126.80.50]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id EAA23937 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:29:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from p5bs06a06.client.global.net.uk ([195.147.214.92] helo=LHIGGINS.ORGELLA.COM) by sand2.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 100kxo-00022X-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:29:24 +0000 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19990114111422.01609df0@mail.globalnet.co.uk> X-Sender: duchess@mail.globalnet.co.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:29:12 +0000 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Elizabeth Higgins Subject: Re: H-COST: 15" waists - any surviving garments? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Elizabeth Higgins Hi Maggi, At 04:43 14/01/99 EST, you wrote: >> (who I met last year) and a very few others who have 15 inch waists. Such a >> things has, and still exists so why not also durung the 19th century as well? >> >As an anomoly, not as a rule. No more then than now? Very true, the number of women who corset to that extent is very, very small. I vaguely recall reading something about a survey of corset makers in the latter half of the 19th century that showed that the average size of corsets made was for 22 inch waists with the numbers falling off in a bell curve above and below] that size. If you want details I can search my archives for the reference. Elizabeth _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 06:51:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA02600 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 06:51:32 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id FAA24691; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 05:02:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id EAA25209 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:59:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from m5.sprynet.com (m5.sprynet.com [165.121.2.92]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id EAA25204 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:59:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from default (hil-c52-004-vty176.as.wcom.net [206.175.118.176]) by m5.sprynet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id DAA16635 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 03:59:20 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901141159.DAA16635@m5.sprynet.com> From: "Bob and TC Carstensen" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 06:57:39 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: re:undergarments Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01b) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Bob and TC Carstensen" Allison Thurman wrote: > is this just my peculiarity or does it seem like more women (or at least > women my age) are shunning slips? I'm 36 and I rarely wore a slip until the past few years when I had to start wearing a lot of skirts in cold weather. Since I wear cotton or wool tights, slips are a necesssity unless the skirt is lined (I am always a litle boggled when I watch old movies from the first half of this century and see women running around in cold weather with the stretch of leg between the bottom of their coats to the top of their short boots covered by nothing but hose. How did they keep from freezing?!). I also appreciate the warmth an extra layer adds. However, I don't think I would have been inclined to wear slips if I hadn't gotten my hand on some nice vintage woven silk or rayon slips. I hate those nasty nylon tricot things I grew up with. I can't imagine how women could stand wearing them at all, let alone in warm weather. > is the garment industry making up for > this by adding lining? Comparing my collection of vintage clothes to modern ready to wear garments, I don't think the garment industry is more inclined to add linings than they used to be. TC Carstensen _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 07:43:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA03465 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 07:43:01 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id FAA26566; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 05:54:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id FAA27611 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 05:51:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from tor-smtp2.netcom.ca (tor-smtp2.netcom.ca [207.181.101.101]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id FAA27606 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 05:50:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from default (trt-on14-34.netcom.ca [207.181.84.226]) by tor-smtp2.netcom.ca (8.8.7-s-4/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA20692 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 07:50:23 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001701be3fbd$33b7b980$e254b5cf@default> From: "David Stamper & Eve Harris" To: Subject: H-COST: Blond/Bleached Hair Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 07:55:39 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "David Stamper & Eve Harris" >> The closet to yellow I can remember is the prostitutes were supposed to >> be blonde or wear a blond wig. Anyone familiar with this one? Venetian women and other Italian women spent a great deal of time dyeing their hair blond. It was THE colour to have. There's a charming engraving of an Italian woman wearing a crownless hat, dabbing at her hair with a sponge in the sun while admiring herself in a mirror. Anyone who used Sun-In in the 80's knows what that's like. (Remember how the box said to use a hair dryer in the winter to get the right heat?) Ouch.The French also prized blond hair. There were some really odd recipes used to bleach the hair. Thank God for L'Oreal. Eve Harris _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 08:41:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA03846 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 08:41:47 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id GAA28753; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 06:51:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id GAA01679 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 06:48:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from bodyguard.apsc.com (bodyguard.apsc.com [137.91.114.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id GAA01674 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 06:48:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailhub.apsc.com (mailhub.apsc.commailhub.apsc.com [137.91.1.30]) by apsc.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA11788 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 06:59:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from nt219.apsc.com (nt219.apsc.com [137.91.1.75]) by mailhub.apsc.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA15150 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 06:44:56 -0700 (MST) Received: by nt219.apsc.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 06:47:43 -0700 Message-ID: <7F402D0574C3D011ACF000A0C92B23D3017B0694@nt13pv.apsc.com> From: "Knauf, Saragrace T(Z02001)" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: H-COST: Other new list: what was it again? Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 06:47:38 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Knauf, Saragrace T(Z02001)" Last week or so, one of the 'regulars' posted information on a new list for historical women's issues - could you repost please-or send to me off-list? Thanks in advance. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 08:56:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA03921 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 08:56:46 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA29516; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 07:07:04 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA02959 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 07:03:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from april.dnaco.net (root@april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA02950 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 07:03:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA02883 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 08:57:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.8.4/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA08003 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:04:39 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:04:38 -0500 (EST) From: aleed To: costume list Subject: Re: H-COST: Peasant garb In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: aleed Claire, I've harvested a bunch of lower class garb pics from the 1550s to 1570s (almost all of them Flemish) with the intention of putting together a web page on the subject eventually...but you can check out the pictures at http://www.dnaco.net/~aleed/corsets/lowerclass/piclist.html . Between them all, the pictures contain clear images of most pieces of clothing. Enjoy, Drea > > -Poster: The Purple Elephant > > I found a cheap piece of wool in the remnant box of a local fabric store, > about the size to make a bodice, and have a strange hankering to make > some nice accurate lower class garb....ie I don't want to make the > standard SCA 'wenching' garb. > I have been looking at the paintings of Pieter Brueghel (any idea where to > find piccies of English peasants ?). I notice that in the summer scenes > the women wear sleeveless bodices (sometimes with separate sleeves pinned > on) and skirts. Some of the skirts are different colours from the bodices > - does this mean they are separate objects or are they still seamed > together? If the latter, would it be okay to make the skirt out of a > different fabric, not just a different colour (ie say a linen skirt on a > wool bodicve)? > In the winter scenes the women wear closed, long-sleeved gowns. Would they > likely be wearing these over the 'summer' garb described above? > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, > Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" > and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson > friendly substance. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 09:02:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA03989 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:02:27 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA29865; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 07:12:46 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA03604 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 07:09:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA03593 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 07:09:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.217.218.194] (ell139.acadia.net [205.217.218.194]) by p2.acadia.net (8.8.5/8.8.6) with SMTP id JAA24199 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:08:51 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:08:51 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: hemp and linen Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) << hempen linen is apparently considerably coarser than flaxen linen, and apparently somewhat darker in color as well.>> I believe this assumption is based on modern forms of hemp and flax. It is certainly not true of all hemp used in the past. Hemp can be as fine, or finer than flax, and color has more to do with growing and processing than with the plant itself. Deborah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 10:45:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA04569 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 10:45:41 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA09547; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 08:56:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA17435 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 08:53:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA17426; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 08:53:06 -0700 (MST) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 08:53:06 -0700 (MST) From: Elizabeth Lear Message-Id: <199901141553.IAA17426@indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: ethnic costume resource books Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Elizabeth Lear <-Poster: Christina Conklin Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA04635 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 10:57:27 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA10856; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:09:00 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA19410 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:05:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.pacifier.com (root@smtp.pacifier.com [199.2.117.96]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA19382 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:04:59 -0700 (MST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: from grendal2 (ip175.van17.pacifier.com [216.65.137.175]) by smtp.pacifier.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA22382 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 08:04:57 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901141604.IAA22382@smtp.pacifier.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 08:05:12 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Colours Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > > True pastels were not popular until late Elizabethan. > Not popular isn't the same as not possible. The Wedding at Bermondsey shows > at least one gown that is undeniably pink. Yes, but that is Elizabethan. (Hey, I'm one of the believers in "pink" as a color, even if it wasn't called that.) > Actually, I support the notion that the flower was called "pink" for its > ruffled edge--as if cut with pinking shears. Carnation was an older color > name, I believe, and that has a Latin root that takes us into other fields. Carnation is one of my favorite colors. (Even if Linthicum does describe it as "the color of fresh meat" or something similar.) > The names of colors are their own reward. Why does "watchet" mean light blue? Like Peacock really being the color of the brown feathers (which I'd say is more "peahen" so why didn't they call it that!) Or Milk-and-water, Dead Spaniard Yellow, Gooseturd Green.... Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 11:00:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA04680 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:00:47 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA11252; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:12:14 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA19948 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:08:22 -0700 (MST) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA19932; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:08:18 -0700 (MST) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:08:18 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199901141608.JAA19932@indra.com> From: Jennifer Carlson To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: H-COST: Corseted Skeletons - A Museum Exhibit! Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Jennifer Carlson I heard a news article on NPR this morning about a new exhibit at the Museum of London. It is titled "London Bodies" and is comprised of skeletons dug up from the various construction sites in London. The skeletons span from Roman Britain through the 18th century, and are interesting in what they show that confirms or refutes our beliefs about how tall people were. The Roman Briton is described as being of an average *modern* height and build. Later skeletons are smaller, then get larger the closer they are to present. The widespread use of sugar in the 17th century shows in a sudden rise in dental caries and missing teeth. The use of corsets is testified to by the permanent compression of ribs in the 16-18th centuries. I'd love to go see this one. Perhaps someone on the list who is in, or will be in, London in the near future can check it out for us? Jennifer Carlson Jcarlson@firstchurchtulsa.org Authenticity Police, Department of Internal Affairs: "Lord BigSword, you will desist from telling schoolchildren that a knight was incapable of climbing onto his horse in 50 pounds of armor, or my assistants here, Sir Purpleheart and Sir NamVet, will strap you into a standard-issue, 50-pound Army field pack, give you an M-16, and run you through a standard Army obstacle course. It's your choice, my lord. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 11:02:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA04699 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:02:24 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA11477; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:13:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA20335 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:09:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA20291; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:09:37 -0700 (MST) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:09:37 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199901141609.JAA20291@indra.com> From: Jon Enge To: "'h-costume-digest@indra.com'" Subject: H-COST: RE: h-costume-digest V4 #35 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Jon Enge I am making a new 16th century upper-middle class outfit for faire this year. I have found a brought a brocade that is white and I want to dye it burgandy... It is 100% cotton and takes dye well (I tried a swatch before I bought it) My one concern is that, with the intensity of the sun baking me all day it will most likely fade quickly with RIT. Is there any way to keep this from happening? Is there a finish I can put on to keep it from fading? Is there a better kind of dye than RIT that I can use that won't fade so easily? Anyone have any tips? Jon... _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 11:04:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA04712 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:04:37 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA11811; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:16:14 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA21132 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:12:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA21120 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:12:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p41.directcon.net [206.170.184.90]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA00763 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 08:07:52 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 08:07:52 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901141607.IAA00763@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: re:undergarments Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson (I am >always a litle boggled when I watch old movies from the first half of >this century and see women running around in cold weather with >the stretch of leg between the bottom of their coats to the top of >their short boots covered by nothing but hose. How did they keep >from freezing?!). We didn't. We suffered. Actually, at the same time as short skirts and boots were popular, the ankle length maxicoat came into style. I didn't have one, though, just a long black cloak (If there had been Goths in 1972, I'd have been one). Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 11:07:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA04735 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:07:32 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA12206; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:19:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA21599 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:15:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA21572 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:14:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p41.directcon.net [206.170.184.90]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA01076 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 08:10:38 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 08:10:38 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901141610.IAA01076@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Other new list: what was it again? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson > >Last week or so, one of the 'regulars' posted information on a new list for >historical women's issues - could you repost please-or send to me off-list? H-fem is a list for discussing menstruation, breastfeeding, pregnancy, and other physical issues related to women's lives throughout history. Emphasis is placed on open discussion and serious research, but topics involving legends, educated guesses, and old wives' tales are also welcome. In addition to emotional and spiritual issues, we also want to focus on the practical approaches used through the ages. To subscribe, go to http://www.onelist.com/ Margo Anderson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 11:54:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA04985 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:54:18 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA17994; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 10:05:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA01055 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 10:01:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from isis.netherworld.com (isis.Netherworld.COM [199.165.233.10]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA01037 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 10:01:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost by isis.netherworld.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA17926 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:53:28 -0700 (MST) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:53:26 -0700 (MST) From: Sylvia Rognstad To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: RE: h-costume-digest V4 #35 In-Reply-To: <199901141609.JAA20291@indra.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sylvia Rognstad > -Poster: Jon Enge > > I am making a new 16th century upper-middle class outfit for faire this > year. I have found a brought a brocade that is white and I want to dye it > burgandy... It is 100% cotton and takes dye well (I tried a swatch before I > bought it) My one concern is that, with the intensity of the sun baking me > all day it will most likely fade quickly with RIT. Is there any way to keep > this from happening? Is there a finish I can put on to keep it from fading? > Is there a better kind of dye than RIT that I can use that won't fade so > easily? Anyone have any tips? Yes. Get some procion mx. Dont use Rit. Sylvia R _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 12:34:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA05295 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:34:43 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA24108; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 10:45:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA10090 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 10:41:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA10081 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 10:41:54 -0700 (MST) From: AliaClaire@aol.com Received: from AliaClaire@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id GDLNa19764 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:40:16 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4492718c.369e2c00@aol.com> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:40:16 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: ACW Gloves for Daywear Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows sub 214 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: AliaClaire@aol.com In a message dated 1/14/99 4:48:09 AM EST, MaggiRos@aol.com writes: << > > Does ANYONE have a good idea or source for ACW-era reproduction gloves? > I would love a nice pair of plain, dove-grey ones for day wear. I am > not afraid to undertake the making of these gloves if I could find a > good pattern, preferable from an original pair. Help, help! > > They can be something of a trick to find, especially kid, like the originals. Sometimes very upper-class department store carry them. I've gotten a lovely pair of black kid gloves from Glenna Jo Christen. I don't know if she's still on the list of not, but her e-mail is gwjchris@rust.net. She's wonderful to do business with and always has a lot of neat stuff, well researched- highest recommendations (and no, I'm not getting paid for saying this :-)) -Alison Stacy AliaClaire@aol.com Canton, Ohio _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 13:45:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA05869 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 13:45:20 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA04277; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:56:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA29466 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:52:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from arl-img-11.compuserve.com (arl-img-11.compuserve.com [149.174.217.141]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA29419 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:52:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from root@localhost) by arl-img-11.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.17) id NAA22020 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 13:51:55 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 13:50:44 -0500 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: Baa Baa Black Sheep To: "INTERNET:h-costume-digest@indra.com" Message-ID: <199901141351_MC2-66A9-7CCF@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id NAA05869 Status: O -Poster: Melanie Wilson >It's my understanding that the occasional black sheep crops up naturally = in a flock, but was regarded as a nuisance because the wool couldn't be = dyed - hence the expression "black sheep of the family" for an embarrassing= relation. Well one farmer in Melton is having really BAD luck then, he has an entire flock ! They can be bred that way, but there is a tendancy to have bred them out historically, and yes you can get one crop up by accident from time to time, in White sheep. Mel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 13:53:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA05914 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 13:53:07 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA05507; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:04:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA28860 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:50:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.18]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA28745 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:50:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.23.229 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 10:48:57 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Baa baa black sheep? Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 13:52:45 -0500 Message-ID: <000101be3fef$274ddb20$e517ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <199901140242_MC2-6691-AC8@compuserve.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Sheep come in a wide range of colors, more so in days of old than now. The fair isle knitters took advantage of all those naturally occurring colors to make those lovely shaded patterns. I was just reading last night in the Mary Thomas Embroidery Book that the Spaniards used naturally occurring black wool on white linen or wool for blackwork and other embroidery. Black hair and fur will turn rusty with sun exposure. Fur from different parts of a sheep are used to make different sorts of yarn for different uses. I wonder if they used any method of protecting the fur from the sun, or whether underbelly fur would be blacker, or what. It sure does provide a color-fast embroidery floss, as opposed to black silk which would often bleed. It seems to like you'd be better off with blackish wool as a starting point for over-dying to a more fashionable blue-black shade, than starting with a lighter wool. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Melanie Wilson Sent: Thursday, January 14, 1999 2:42 AM To: INTERNET:h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Baa baa black sheep? -Poster: Melanie Wilson Yes you can get black sheep (well amost black) I have a lovely Shetland fleece (black ) waiting to be spun, my understanding is dark brown was overdyed to produce black quite often. Older breeds of sheep are often Black or brown or grey or piebald (two colurs) I is easy , at least in the UK , to get fleeces from many different shades of sheep ! Mel ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 13:57:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA05939 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 13:57:30 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA06335; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:09:22 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA02903 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:05:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.30]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA02871 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:05:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.23.229 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:04:25 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: re:undergarments Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:08:10 -0500 Message-ID: <000201be3ff1$50e7f680$e517ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" When I was in junior and senior high school in the 1960's, only fast girls wnt without a slip. I mean a full slip. The mothers in general and a large contingent of girls thought it was pretty tasteless to wear a bra alone under a white blouse. It was much more becoming to wear a full slip with it's built-in camisole between the bra and the blouse. It became the norm to wear a half slip among the younger generation by the end of the decade, but I still think it's a little tacky to see that bra line across a woman's back under a white blouse, but confess I do it all the time. Houses and buildings are kept warmer than the old farmhouse I grew up in, and all those layers do require a fuss. If you could get a slip anymore in any decent material, it would be an attractive altrnative, but after shelling out big bucks for a dress for success silk and wool outfit, it kills me to think about stepping into a crummy antron nylon synthetic, wobbly, static-laden slip, which is about as cheap and unattractive a garment as you can get. The waist elastic on mine gave out in no time so years back and I never replaced them. When I was in elementary school in the 1950's I wouldn't be caught dead without my frothy nylon tafetta and lace slip petticoats to make my skirts stand out. It was a great pleasure to buy two more each year and to wear them, as they were in and of themselves so pretty and not the least bit of trouble. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Allison Thurman Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 1999 10:10 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: re:undergarments -Poster: "Allison Thurman" this may be an odd question but it is on the undergarments topic: i am 25 years old. while i was growing up i remember battling my mother on sundays because she insisted i wear a slip with all my skirts - even thick winter ones. i always hated the things because they invariably had static cling and/or showed through the kickpleat. my mother still wears them with all her skirts, but ive not worn one in years - imho, if a skirt is THAT sheer i'll do without it. also, many ready-made skirts i see have built-in linings lately, particularly if they are part of a suit. is this just my peculiarity or does it seem like more women (or at least women my age) are shunning slips? is the garment industry making up for this by adding lining?just wondering. allison ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 14:24:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA06085 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:24:18 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA10097; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:35:57 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA09920 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:31:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from proxy4.ba.best.com (root@proxy4.ba.best.com [206.184.139.15]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA09886 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:31:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from best.com (lavolta.vip.best.com [206.86.95.234]) by proxy4.ba.best.com (8.9.2/8.9.2/best.out) with ESMTP id LAA03744 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:28:59 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <369E4355.272629A9@best.com> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:19:49 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: re:undergarments References: <000201be3ff1$50e7f680$e517ffd0@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lavolta Press > When I was in junior and senior high school in the 1960's, > only fast girls wnt without a slip. I mean a full slip. > The mothers in general and a large contingent of girls > thought it was pretty tasteless to wear a bra alone under a > white blouse. It was much more becoming to wear a full slip > with it's built-in camisole between the bra and the blouse. > It became the norm to wear a half slip among the younger > generation by the end of the decade, but I still think it's > a little tacky to see that bra line across a woman's back > under a white blouse, but confess I do it all the time. What I remember is slips, and any kind of heavy support garment (such as girdles and padded bras), mostly went out of fashion in the late 1960s/early 1970s. Slips and camisoles made a comeback sometime in the 1980s, I forget exactly when, when Victoria's Secret, followed by other stores, starting selling silk lingerie as a luxury item. Last time I dropped into Victoria's Secret at the local mall, all their merchandise was synthetic. On the other hand, Nordstrom's currently sells pure silk lingerie at reasonable prices. I bought several silk slips there a few months ago for somewhere between $20 and $30. You can also find unused, old-store-stock silk lingerie from the 1920s and 1930s for good prices if you look around. I find the current trend in foundation garments a little strange. My memory is a few years ago I went to Macy's downtown to shop for bras and saw practically a whole floor of soft sports bras. Next time I went there, I saw practically a whole floor of padded, underwired ones. In neither case did I see much in between. Fran ---------------------------------------------- Visit our web sites! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.best.com/~lavolta/index.htm Vintage and historic dance http://www.best.com/~lavolta/dance/index.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 14:32:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA06134 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:32:14 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA11238; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:43:46 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA11662 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:39:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.19]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA11637 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:39:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.20.27 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:38:54 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: H-COST: RE: Keeping Legs Warm in "The Old Days!" Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:27:03 -0500 Message-ID: <000001be3ff6$2005ac60$1b14ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <199901141607.IAA00763@zeus.directcon.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" What did we wear underneath the dresses to keep warm? Well, depends when. I used to wear flannel-lined corduroy pants to school under my dresses and take them off when I got to school. That is until 1958 when tights were invented. I still have the photo my grandfather took at Xmas that year of my younger cousin, with her new red tights on, holding up her dress to the waist, to show the assembled elderly relatives what the new fangled things were. Imagine, panties and stockings in one garment! And colors! It was revolutionary! We loved the warmth, and got dispensation to do gym in our tights rather than have to slip on trousers or shorts under our dresses. Then in the early sixties, there were knee-sox and petti-pants. Petti-pants were drawers of brushed nylon or nylon tricot to a few inches above the knee. They were highly decorated near the hems with tucks, lace, and ribbons. They were great! Then in the late 60's or early 70's, perhaps due to the popularity of the movie "Grease," it was leggings, like what dancers wear to keep their muscles warm. They were handknit tubes, the wilder colored the better, which we wore over our ankles, calves and knees---over nylons, over jeans, over tights as an extra layer to be shed indoors usually, but sometimes worn as a fashion statement all its own. I'd like to hear from those who remember the 20's-40's and hear how they dealt with the chill! Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Margo Anderson Sent: Thursday, January 14, 1999 11:08 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: re:undergarments -Poster: Margo Anderson (I am >always a litle boggled when I watch old movies from the first half of >this century and see women running around in cold weather with >the stretch of leg between the bottom of their coats to the top of >their short boots covered by nothing but hose. How did they keep >from freezing?!). We didn't. We suffered. Actually, at the same time as short skirts and boots were popular, the ankle length maxicoat came into style. I didn't have one, though, just a long black cloak (If there had been Goths in 1972, I'd have been one). Margo ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 14:34:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA06145 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:34:22 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA11464; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:45:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA12287 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:41:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA12269 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:41:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.165] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 100seC-0000xI-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:41:41 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990114112923.00bbb6e0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:30:31 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: 'baby walker' Elizabethan In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >Dear Katya, >Your baby walker outfit sounds so cool! Any way to see pictures? There aren't any. But if you know the period at all you can make one of these dress/walker combinations. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 14:34:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA06146 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:34:22 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA11480; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:45:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA12291 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:41:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA12277 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:41:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.165] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 100seE-0000xI-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:41:43 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990114113105.00bc3830@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:34:52 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: 'baby walker' Elizabethan In-Reply-To: <199901140000.QAA26957@smtp.pacifier.com> References: <4.1.19990113114444.00b645a0@pop.slip.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >None of the walkers I've seen from the 14th century through at least >the 16th Century would prevent the child's reach or keep them from >tipping or going through doorways. Me neither. They have square bases, like mine had under the round plastic bits. Some look like modern old-people walkers, and some look like mine with a seat in the middle. >One of the most common things which maimed and killed children of >that time is falling into the fire. > >Leading strings attached to the backs of the doublet or shoulders of >the tunic is something you also see with the pre16th century. This is >so charming (and very costume oriented;) and it works. I think the leading strings are the method of tying a baby to your own apron strings. It gives a toddler about 6' of 'freedom' in any direction, and gives Mom a handle. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 16:01:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA06690 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 16:01:21 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA22300; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:13:14 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA05936 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:09:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (root@jefferson.patriot.net [206.151.9.249]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA05924 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:09:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from [206.151.9.18] (th-0-9.patriot.net [206.151.9.18]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA04527 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 16:04:23 -0500 Message-Id: <199901142104.QAA04527@jefferson.patriot.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: undergarments Date: Thu, 14 Jan 99 16:08:23 -0500 x-sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sylvia R asked, > Anyone know where to find one >of those today, or at least something without underwires that doesnt look >like one of those Playtex pointy things? Who still wears those? They >havent changed since the fifties, I dont think. Another source - the Vermont Country Store has cotton bras without underwires. I don't know if they have the size range some people were seeking. Vermont Country Store also has slips & pants liners. They have all sorts of old-fashioned items that are useful to costumers. Another favorite of mine is the extra large metal hairpins. Of course, I can't find a catalog now to share information. And I thought getting rid of clutter was a good thing! -Carol Kocian _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 16:10:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA06738 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 16:10:23 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA23826; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:22:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA07641 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:18:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp0-alterdial.uu.net (smtp0-alterdial.UU.NET [192.48.96.28]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA07623 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:18:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from jwilbur1 by smtp0-alterdial.uu.net with SMTP (peer crosschecked as: 119.pcpool89.corp.us.uu.net [153.39.89.119]) id QQfyef11003 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 21:18:03 GMT Message-Id: From: "Jessica Wilbur" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 16:18:30 -0500 Subject: Re: H-COST: Peasant garb Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.00 beta 6) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Jessica Wilbur" The Poulet Gauche web page has some information on peasant dress in the 16th c. (though of course they are French-oriented). The gallery page has some good pictures, some of which are the same as the ones on Drea's page. There are some different ones, though. I like the Poulet Gauche Poster Girl's outfit, myself... There are some tips for making that outfit on the page. Here's the URL for the gallery page: http://www.lepg.org/gallery.htm Hope this helps! --Jessica > > -Poster: The Purple Elephant > > I found a cheap piece of wool in the remnant box of a local fabric store, > about the size to make a bodice, and have a strange hankering to make > some nice accurate lower class garb....ie I don't want to make the > standard SCA 'wenching' garb. > I have been looking at the paintings of Pieter Brueghel (any idea where to > find piccies of English peasants ?). I notice that in the summer scenes > the women wear sleeveless bodices (sometimes with separate sleeves pinned > on) and skirts. Some of the skirts are different colours from the bodices > - does this mean they are separate objects or are they still seamed > together? If the latter, would it be okay to make the skirt out of a > different fabric, not just a different colour (ie say a linen skirt on a > wool bodicve)? > In the winter scenes the women wear closed, long-sleeved gowns. Would they > likely be wearing these over the 'summer' garb described above? > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, > Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" > and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson > friendly substance. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 16:13:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA06751 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 16:13:03 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA24182; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:24:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA14651 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:51:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA14639 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:51:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.175] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 100snn-0001Ts-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:51:35 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990114114306.00bbc920@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:44:28 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: 'baby walker' Elizabethan In-Reply-To: <369D4CD8.5881060A@ricochet.net> References: <4.1.19990113114444.00b645a0@pop.slip.net> <199901140000.QAA26957@smtp.pacifier.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >In the "Shakespeare's Birthplace" house in Stratford, there is a "child >minder" that would prevent this. In the floor and ceiling, there is a socket, >and into it is fitted a pole, so that it can turn freely. On the pole, at >about the height of a child's waist, is a short horizontal bar, with a strap >that would go around the child. The child can then run in circles (or >possibly sit down, if the bar is adjustable) within a limited range -- never >getting close to the fire or geting away to another room. I have seen a photo of this contraption. Not what I would call a walker, but the floor shows signs of heavy use by some little person(s). Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 16:13:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA06755 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 16:13:18 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA24246; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:25:02 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA14684 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:51:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from isomedia.com (root@watson.isomedia.com [207.149.221.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA14654 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:51:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from wingate (pm514.isomedia.com [207.149.222.221]) by isomedia.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA15552 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:13:36 -0800 From: "Wylie A. & Gail D. Smith" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Cuff puzzle in painting Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:51:26 -0800 Message-ID: <000101be3ff7$459de400$ddde95cf@wingate> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <369D2EB4.4330E07B@pacbell.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Wylie A. & Gail D. Smith" I really have to agree with Dietmar. I too think they are gloves. The wrinkles between each finger of his right hand look like they are made from very thin leather. I wish there was a larger picture to look at- I find it difficult in most online pictures to distinguish details. ~Gail > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Dietmar > Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 1999 3:40 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: Cuff puzzle in painting > > > > -Poster: Dietmar > > Greetings all, > > Teddy wrote: > > > What puzzles me is that under the ruffles at the wrists of the > shirt there > > is a row of tabs/picadils. I thought a first that the subject might be > > wearing gloves, and these tabs were decorating the opening at the wrist, > > but on closer inspection, the finger-nails are visible on at least the > > left hand of the sitter. > > I may be in the minority, but I think that they are gloves. The > color of the > tabs are the same color as the rest of the hand and the > 'fingernails' don't > show enough detail. Tight fitting kid gloves can show that kind > of detail. > It's really tough to make a call based on the picture on the web, > but until I > see a better picture, I'm going to assume that there are gloves. > > Regards, > > Dietmar > > > "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; > over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 16:13:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA06759 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 16:13:41 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA24306; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:25:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA15221 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:54:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from isomedia.com (root@watson.isomedia.com [207.149.221.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA15145 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:53:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from wingate (pm514.isomedia.com [207.149.222.221]) by isomedia.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA15735 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:15:50 -0800 From: "Wylie A. & Gail D. Smith" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Lecture on 1790s Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:53:41 -0800 Message-ID: <000201be3ff7$95b212e0$ddde95cf@wingate> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <199901140630.BAA16115@jefferson.patriot.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Wylie A. & Gail D. Smith" Oh, this sounds good! Too bad I'm in the wrong Washington! ;-( Perhaps you could put your paper online? I'd love to read it!! ~Gail > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of aquazoo@patriot.net > Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 1999 10:34 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: H-COST: Lecture on 1790s > > > > -Poster: > > > > Sat., Jan. 16, 1999, 1 p.m., Gadsby's Tavern Museum, 134 N Royal St., > Alex. Va. 703-836-2863; Free w/admission or $4 for adults: "The 1790s: > Bridging the Fashion Gap," Lecture by Alden O'Brien, Assoc. Curator of > Costume, DAR Museum. "The 1790s is a fascinating but neglected decade in > the history of costume. How did fashion make the transition from the > stiff-bodied, voluminous dresses of George Washington's time to the > soft, high-waisted styles of the era of Jane Austen? Both men's and > women's fashions underwent a period of great innovation and > experimentation." > > This lecture is a revised, expanded and improved (I hope) version of the > lecture I gave at the 1st Gadsby's Symposium two years ago. Here I'll > venture into men's dress a bit, and will go into details of construction > of the variety of transitional styles that appear in the 1790s, with > more conservative uses overlapping with newer styles and piecing > methods. Some attention will be given to accessories and hair, but I > want to concentrate on the dress construction overall--also the > transitional underpinnings. Hope to see some of you there! > > No reservations necessary; for more info call 703-838-4605. > > Alden O'Brien > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 16:32:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA06852 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 16:32:14 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA27215; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:43:59 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA11483 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:39:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from mb06.swip.net (mb06.swip.net [193.12.122.210]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA11440 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:39:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from [130.244.199.181] (dialup199-3-53.swipnet.se [130.244.199.181]) by mb06.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA06212 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 22:39:34 +0100 (MET) X-Sender: md21199@dredd.swip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <369D2EB4.4330E07B@pacbell.net> References: <342DD1B1150@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 22:39:41 +0100 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Ninni M Pettersson Subject: Re: H-COST: Cuff puzzle in painting Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Ninni M Pettersson At 00.39 +0100 99-01-14, Dietmar wrote: >Teddy wrote: > >> What puzzles me is that under the ruffles at the wrists of the shirt there >> is a row of tabs/picadils. I thought a first that the subject might be >> wearing gloves, and these tabs were decorating the opening at the wrist, >> but on closer inspection, the finger-nails are visible on at least the >> left hand of the sitter. > >I may be in the minority, but I think that they are gloves. The color of the >tabs are the same color as the rest of the hand and the 'fingernails' don't >show enough detail. Tight fitting kid gloves can show that kind of detail. >It's really tough to make a call based on the picture on the web, but until I >see a better picture, I'm going to assume that there are gloves. After taking a long and detailed look (I downloaded the picture and used another program to enlarge it) I agree with Dietmar. Both because the yellowish / buff colour of the tabs and the colour of the hands match (and they *don't* match the colour of the face - that is much pinker); and because I seem to see "wrinkles" on the hands that look more like thin leather or cloth than skin (at the lower part of fingers on the right hand for example) and the nail also looks like it has a tightly stretched layer of thin leather or cloth over it. /Ninni Pettersson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 16:37:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA06891 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 16:37:30 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA27898; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:49:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA12631 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:44:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from bigred.unl.edu (00217146@bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA12614 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:44:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (00217146@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA05033 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 15:45:08 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 15:45:08 -0600 (CST) From: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Cuff puzzle in painting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> My difficulty with this idea is that I see no seams on the hands that would imply that he's wearing gloves. On the other hand, I didn't see any seams elsewhere, either, and I'm not sure if that's because the artist didn't pay attention to seams, or that the fabric is just too dark for me too see on this monitor. Can you see any on the enlargement? Emma > > -Poster: Ninni M Pettersson > > After taking a long and detailed look (I downloaded the picture and > used another program to enlarge it) I agree with Dietmar. Both because the > yellowish / buff colour of the tabs and the colour of the hands match (and > they *don't* match the colour of the face - that is much pinker); and > because I seem to see "wrinkles" on the hands that look more like thin > leather or cloth than skin (at the lower part of fingers on the right hand > for example) and the nail also looks like it has a tightly stretched layer > of thin leather or cloth over it. > > /Ninni Pettersson > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 16:50:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA07006 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 16:50:03 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA29601; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 15:01:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA15367 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:57:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from fw2.roguewave.com (firewall-user@fw2.roguewave.com [208.151.233.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA15268 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:57:05 -0700 (MST) Received: by fw2.roguewave.com; id NAA07862; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 13:52:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from cvo1.cvo.roguewave.com(10.68.4.36) via SMTP by net.indra.com, id smtpd007853; Thu Jan 14 13:52:35 1999 Received: by cvo1.cvo.roguewave.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 13:57:53 -0800 Message-ID: From: Betsy Perry To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: H-COST: RE: Vermont Country Store Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 13:57:50 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Betsy Perry The VCS has very useful hair stuff: rats (the kind you use for puffy hair), large plastic 'tortoiseshell' hairpins, you name it. Also Florida Water, Burt's Bees, LiLi of Bermuda perfumes, a non-synthetic violet perfume (!), and other goodies. 1-802-362-8300, or P.O. Box 3200 Manchester Ctr, VT 05255-3200 --- Elizabeth Hanes Perry Rogue Wave Software > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 16:51:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA07016 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 16:51:36 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA29748; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 15:02:49 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA15648 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:58:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA15632 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:58:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from test (ip226-2.cc.interlog.com [207.34.226.2]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA18169 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 16:58:24 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990114165243.00935a70@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 16:52:43 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: Other new list: what was it again? In-Reply-To: <7F402D0574C3D011ACF000A0C92B23D3017B0694@nt13pv.apsc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >Last week or so, one of the 'regulars' posted information on a new list for >historical women's issues - could you repost please-or send to me off-list? >Thanks in advance. When was this posted? I really don't think I'm getting every message. :( Thanks, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 16:53:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA07039 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 16:53:09 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA29998; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 15:04:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA14327 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:52:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo28.mx.aol.com (imo28.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.72]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA14018 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:52:04 -0700 (MST) From: M311@aol.com Received: from M311@aol.com by imo28.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id TRDa023181 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 16:50:58 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 16:50:58 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Cuff puzzle in painting Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 190 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: M311@aol.com In a message dated 1/14/99 3:45:22 PM Central Standard Time, 00217146@bigred.unl.edu writes: << My difficulty with this idea is that I see no seams on the hands that would imply that he's wearing gloves. >> Okay, once again I somehow missed something. This time it is the url of where this picture is at. Can someone please send it to me? Kelly Albrecht m311@aol.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 16:57:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA07087 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 16:57:05 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA00502; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 15:08:49 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA16896 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 15:04:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from bigred.unl.edu (00217146@bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA16782 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 15:04:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (00217146@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA04780 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 16:04:53 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 16:04:53 -0600 (CST) From: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Cuff puzzle in painting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> On Thu, 14 Jan 1999 M311@aol.com wrote: > > << My difficulty with this idea is that I see no seams on the hands that > would imply that he's wearing gloves. >> > > Okay, once again I somehow missed something. This time it is the url of where > this picture is at. Can someone please send it to me? > Kelly Albrecht > m311@aol.com Sorry, that should have been included. http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/m/mabuse/baudouin.jpg _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 17:00:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA07146 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 17:00:45 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA01190; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 15:12:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA17798 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 15:08:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from x15.engin.umich.edu (root@x15.engin.umich.edu [141.212.198.14]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA17781 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 15:08:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (parsla@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by x15.engin.umich.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA03651 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 17:08:21 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 17:08:20 -0500 (EST) From: Parsla Liepa To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Cuff puzzle in painting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Parsla Liepa Why would his hands be the same color as his face? My aren't. Parsla > > > > << My difficulty with this idea is that I see no seams on the hands that > > would imply that he's wearing gloves. >> > > > > Okay, once again I somehow missed something. This time it is the url of where > > this picture is at. Can someone please send it to me? > > Kelly Albrecht > > m311@aol.com > > Sorry, that should have been included. > http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/m/mabuse/baudouin.jpg _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 17:48:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA07510 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 17:48:31 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA07286; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 16:00:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA26702 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 15:55:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from VAX5.ACER.EDU.AU (vax5.acer.edu.au [203.2.133.50]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA26640 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 15:55:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from exchange.acer.edu.au ([203.2.133.26]) by vms.acer.edu.au (PMDF V5.1-12 #22802) with ESMTP id <01J6KDG8EOH28WWN06@vms.acer.edu.au> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:57:11 +1100 Received: by exchange.acer.edu.au with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:50:05 +1100 Content-return: allowed Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:49:56 +1100 From: Harvey Georgia Subject: H-COST: 50's/60's Underwear To: "'H-costume'" Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Harvey Georgia Now *here's* a question a friend and I were discussing this week, having recently acquired some of those long, boned (50s??) girdles, that goes from under the bust to thigh level. Are these the 50s ones? What did one wear under them? And, if one did wear something under them, how on earth does one manage to go to the toilet in under half an hour? And, if not, how does one manage to look...decent... Georgia -in search of knowledge :-) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 20:20:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA08422 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 20:20:38 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA27181; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 18:32:32 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA22957 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 18:28:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA22929 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 18:28:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (pilot [129.127.36.15]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id LAA11634 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 11:58:07 +1030 (CST) Received: by pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.61+IDA+MU/UA-5.23) id AA19410; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 11:57:58 +1030 Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 11:57:58 +1030 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant X-Sender: csmart@pilot To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: costume list Subject: Re: H-COST: Peasant garb In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Thu, 14 Jan 1999, aleed wrote: > > I've harvested a bunch of lower class garb pics from the 1550s to 1570s > (almost all of them Flemish) with the intention of putting together a web > page on the subject eventually...but you can check out the pictures > at http://www.dnaco.net/~aleed/corsets/lowerclass/piclist.html . Between > them all, the pictures contain clear images of most pieces of clothing. The curious thing is, I was pootling about on the web yesterday and found this very page!!!! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 21:06:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA08660 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 21:06:51 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA02650; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 19:18:58 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA28434 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 19:14:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA28421 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 19:14:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip185.an5-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.16.185]) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA19217 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 18:14:37 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <369E972E.466CCDC3@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 21:17:36 -0400 From: Laurel Wilson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03C-NSCP (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: RE: Keeping Legs Warm in "The Old Days!" References: <000001be3ff6$2005ac60$1b14ffd0@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Laurel Wilson Hope H. Dunlap wrote: > Then in the early sixties, there were knee-sox and > petti-pants. Petti-pants were drawers of brushed nylon or > nylon tricot to a few inches above the knee. They were > highly decorated near the hems with tucks, lace, and > ribbons. They were great! > I had totally forgotten about petti-pants! I also remember, when I was very little, say 3 or 4 (1949/50), outfits with matching coats and leggings, as they were called: they were actually heavy wool pants of a fabric that matched the coat, and you wore them under your dress (my mother still has pictures). The knitted tubes you described are what dancers call 'legwarmers', and dancers still wear them; I wish they hadn't gone out of fashion, as they were awfully handy. Lauri _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 21:08:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA08670 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 21:08:10 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA02848; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 19:20:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA28584 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 19:15:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA28560 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 19:15:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip185.an5-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.16.185]) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA20547 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 18:15:46 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <369E9774.8F7D0C8E@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 21:18:46 -0400 From: Laurel Wilson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03C-NSCP (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Lecture on 1790s References: <000201be3ff7$95b212e0$ddde95cf@wingate> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Laurel Wilson Wylie A. & Gail D. Smith wrote: > Perhaps you > could put your paper online? I'd love to read it!! > ~Gail > Ditto. Lauri _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 21:14:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA08703 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 21:14:03 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA03635; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 19:26:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA29302 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 19:21:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA29293 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 19:21:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip185.an5-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.16.185]) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA27934 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 18:21:50 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <369E98E1.2DE8B7F8@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 21:24:51 -0400 From: Laurel Wilson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03C-NSCP (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 50's/60's Underwear References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Laurel Wilson Harvey Georgia wrote: > -Poster: Harvey Georgia > > Now *here's* a question a friend and I were discussing this week, having > recently acquired some of those long, boned (50s??) girdles, that goes from > under the bust to thigh level. Are these the 50s ones? > > What did one wear under them? And, if one did wear something under them, how > on earth does one manage to go to the toilet in under half an hour? And, if > not, how does one manage to look...decent... > > Georgia > -in search of knowledge :-) > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME If these are the kind that snap to the stocking, I seem to remember that one unsnapped the garters and rolled them up to reach the panties. With the shorter ones, you wore your panties *over* the girdle, and it was simple enough to take them down. Lauri, eternally grateful to not have worn one of these in at least thirty-five years. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 21:16:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA08721 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 21:16:13 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA04042; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 19:28:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA29486 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 19:24:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA29474 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 19:24:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip185.an5-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.16.185]) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA00552 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 18:24:02 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <369E9964.9B2C1136@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 21:27:02 -0400 From: Laurel Wilson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03C-NSCP (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST:Wonderful words References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Laurel Wilson The Purple Elephant wrote: > The curious thing is, I was pootling about on the web yesterday and found > this very page!!!! > thank you for making me chuckle with that delightful word! Lauri _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 22:22:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA09136 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 22:22:00 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA12189; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 20:33:49 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA07535 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 20:29:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id UAA07513 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 20:29:23 -0700 (MST) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 20:29:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 22747 invoked from network); 15 Jan 1999 03:24:56 -0000 Received: from 133.240.3-3.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (207.183.240.133) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 15 Jan 1999 03:24:56 -0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19990114192924.085f31ca@mail2.quiknet.com> X-Sender: joanj@mail2.quiknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: Re: H-COST: Baa baa black sheep? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Joan M Jurancich At 05:28 PM 01/13/1999 -0800, Gia Gavino-Gattshall wrote: > >-Poster: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" > >Greetings, again! > >I was singing the nursery rhyme with my Amybyrlee when I became >curious...Were there sheep with black wool, medievally? Where would one >find such a beastie, if there were black wool producing sheep? Or is this a >rather modern genetically induced sheep? > >Gia/Giacinta >costuming nut, ever curious... Any sheep that is not pure white is a "black sheep". And the colors range from grays and light browns to brown-black to reddish-browns. All these colors are natural and could have been found in medieval sheep. Of course, the white wool takes dyes much more clearly than naturally-colored wool, so it was more valuable. The "black" wools, of whatever shade, could well have been given to the poor. >From one with far too many spinning wheels and spindles and far too little time to use them, Joan Jurancich Sacramento, CA joanj@quiknet.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 22:27:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA09166 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 22:27:09 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA12762; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 20:38:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA08058 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 20:34:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id UAA08038 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 20:34:03 -0700 (MST) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 20:34:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 24144 invoked from network); 15 Jan 1999 03:29:40 -0000 Received: from 133.240.3-3.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (207.183.240.133) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 15 Jan 1999 03:29:40 -0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19990114193408.085f6d10@mail2.quiknet.com> X-Sender: joanj@mail2.quiknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: Re: H-COST: leading strings Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Joan M Jurancich And whenever I see a youngster with a modern version of leading strings (usually when I am at Sutter's Fort during Crafts Demonstration Days [see, I can bring in costume ]), I always compliment them on their cleverness wearing them to make certain that Mommy (or Daddy) doesn't get lost . Joan Jurancich Sacramento, CA At 05:23 PM 01/13/1999 -0800, Gia Gavino-Gattshall wrote: > >-Poster: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" > >Love the walker idea! > >When Ambyr was about 1, I did a dress for her with leading strings. >Wonderful for going through merchants row! > >A walker wasn't really practical for me, though, for she was a 'climber' >before she was a 'walker' and she kept escaping from the walker! So leading >strings worked better. > >I also did a stroller 'cozy' out of a tapestry type of material so that the >modern stroller was 'hidden'. Not period (I think?) but it worked >especially when she needed a nap and wouldn't lay down. A spin in the >stroller usually did the trick to get her nodding off! > >Giacinta > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 22:39:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA09222 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 22:39:56 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA13897; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 20:52:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA09748 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 20:47:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.alltel.net (mail.alltel.net [166.102.165.30]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA09742 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 20:47:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from days.alltel.net ([166.102.152.94]) by mail.alltel.net (8.9.1/ALLTEL Messaging Service) with ESMTP id VAA28743 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 21:47:45 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199901150347.VAA28743@mail.alltel.net> From: " The days" To: Subject: H-COST: Survey of Fabrics Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 22:39:59 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: " The days" Hello! I seem to have seen a earlier post for someone wanting the "Survey of Period Fabrics" from the stock clerk's office of the SCA. I can't find the origional message from who it may have come from. If this person subscribes to this list please contact me at days@alltel.net fro mor information. Thank you. Scarlett Day _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 22:52:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA09295 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 22:52:18 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA15054; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 21:04:40 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA11164 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 21:00:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo25.mx.aol.com (imo25.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.69]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA11051 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 20:59:16 -0700 (MST) From: Appin1@aol.com Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo25.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id MAIHa15290 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 22:56:57 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 22:56:57 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Cuff puzzle in painting Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 230 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Appin1@aol.com I have to agree with Dietmar. I examined the picture and I think they are gloves too. Thin, tight gloves of fine leather or kidskin can show detail like that. Kathleen Norvell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 23:13:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA09417 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 23:13:14 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA16722; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 21:25:28 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA13570 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 21:20:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA13555 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 21:20:54 -0700 (MST) From: M311@aol.com Received: from M311@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 6IPPa03210 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 23:19:22 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 23:19:22 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Cuff puzzle in painting Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 190 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: M311@aol.com In a message dated 1/14/99 10:00:27 PM Central Standard Time, Appin1@aol.com writes: << I have to agree with Dietmar. I examined the picture and I think they are gloves too. Thin, tight gloves of fine leather or kidskin can show detail like that. >> I looked at the picture today on my computer. Now I have a 17 inch moniter and things look differently on them since things are bigger. In the case of looking at pictures of clothes and paintings I have always found them a plus. On my screen I think it just looks like hands, no gloves. I just don't see gloves at all. Just thought that I would let you know. Kelly Albrecht m311@aol.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 23:36:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA09551 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 23:36:03 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA18689; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 21:48:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA15741 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 21:43:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from hummer.tci.net (hummer.TCI.NET [209.19.4.19]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA15734 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 21:43:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from c59303-a (c59303-a.mckiny1.tx.home.com [24.4.53.172]) by hummer.tci.net with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2232.9) id C6F4DYRZ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 21:42:57 -0700 Message-ID: <007401be4042$bba00c00$ac350418@c59303-a.mckiny1.tx.home.com> From: "Franchesca Havas" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Cuff puzzle in painting Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 22:48:33 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Franchesca Havas" They look like a pair of gloves I have but they were made with in the last 20 years. Very soft and supple kid, very fragile now, they fit so wonderfully that you can see the outlines of my finger nails. But I think that what happened in this painting, and you would have to ask the conservationist to see if they did an x-ray of it, is that the artist painted the structure of the hands first then painted the gloves on top of the hands. Wild guess on my part. Upon color analysis by my eye and 2 different art programs, vector and raster, the color coding of the piccalils matches the last collar that is all but hidden on the right side of the neck more than the gloves, my vote is that it is an undershirt that is separate from the rest of the outfit. Sincerely, Ches aka Chiara Francesca Steward of Coronation XL http://www.io.com/~ches/coronation99 -----Original Message----- From: M311@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thursday, January 14, 1999 10:16 PM Subject: Re: H-COST: Cuff puzzle in painting : :-Poster: M311@aol.com : :In a message dated 1/14/99 10:00:27 PM Central Standard Time, Appin1@aol.com :writes: : :<< I have to agree with Dietmar. I examined the picture and I think they are : gloves too. Thin, tight gloves of fine leather or kidskin can show detail :like : that. : : >> _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 01:17:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA10895 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 01:17:33 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA27529; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 23:29:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA25603 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 23:24:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA25595 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 23:24:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.210] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 1012gW-0000qV-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 22:24:45 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990114145735.00bca5b0@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19990114145735.00bca5b0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 15:05:11 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Cuff puzzle in painting In-Reply-To: <369D2EB4.4330E07B@pacbell.net> References: <342DD1B1150@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > >I may be in the minority, but I think that they are gloves. The color of the >tabs are the same color as the rest of the hand and the 'fingernails' don't >show enough detail. Tight fitting kid gloves can show that kind of detail. >It's really tough to make a call based on the picture on the web, but until I >see a better picture, I'm going to assume that there are gloves. > The tab-things look like the slashed glove cuffs I have seen in other pictures from this period. Slashed glove cuffs are done in about four to six slashes around, rather than in half-inch-apart slashes the way doublet sleeve-ends are. Gloves are often rendered thin like this with no seams visible, and with the cuffs folded toward the hand. My vote is for gloves, a status-symbol accessory of this period. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 01:17:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA10896 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 01:17:33 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA27672; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 23:29:53 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA25665 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 23:25:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA25629 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 23:24:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.210] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 1012gi-0000qV-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 22:24:56 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990114212056.00be8ef0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 21:26:42 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Colours In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >The names of colors are their own reward. Why does "watchet" mean light blue? I own two dictionaries which list watchet, a Websters New International Dictionary, Second Edition from 1950 and a Century Cyclopedia from 1906. Both cite Old North French as the language of origin. The Websters thinks the origin is obscure (duh), and the Century Cyclopedia thinks it originally relates to the word 'woad', tho it gives no intermediate derrivation. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 01:17:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA10902 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 01:17:52 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA27698; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 23:29:57 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA25689 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 23:25:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA25644 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 23:25:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.210] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 1012gl-0000qV-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 22:25:01 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990114213624.00be7e30@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 21:38:09 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: RE: h-costume-digest V4 #35 In-Reply-To: <199901141609.JAA20291@indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Dylon dye. It is as easy to use as that dye-emulater Rit, but it is real dye. >I am making a new 16th century upper-middle class outfit for faire this >year. I have found a brought a brocade that is white and I want to dye it >burgandy... It is 100% cotton and takes dye well (I tried a swatch before I >bought it) My one concern is that, with the intensity of the sun baking me >all day it will most likely fade quickly with RIT. Is there any way to keep >this from happening? Is there a finish I can put on to keep it from fading? >Is there a better kind of dye than RIT that I can use that won't fade so >easily? Anyone have any tips? Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 01:18:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA10910 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 01:18:08 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA27779; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 23:30:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA25696 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 23:25:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA25674 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 23:25:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.210] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 1012gp-0000qV-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 22:25:04 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990114214414.00bc54d0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 22:20:09 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: RE: Keeping Legs Warm in "The Old Days!" In-Reply-To: <000001be3ff6$2005ac60$1b14ffd0@default> References: <199901141607.IAA00763@zeus.directcon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows I'd like >to hear from those who remember the 20's-40's and hear how >they dealt with the chill! My mother (born 1924) says wear warm coats and walk faster. In Montana (on a family farm) she says her mother (born 1880) made her wear wool stockings with garters (late 20's). Boots cost too much, so her mother never had them for outdoors wear. They didn't wear hats except to dress up nice. (I can't believe they didn't have some kind of hats in a Montana winter, but my mother was young when they moved to California and may not remember hats.) She says cold is mostly across the shoulders, so they wore more coats and sweaters in winter in Southern California (San Diego, 30's-40's). Overshoes and galoshes are nice and warm, but were mostly used for keeping out rain and wet, she says. She remembers that my grandmother from Portland Oregon, her Mother-in-law, wrapped a scarf around her head in winter and wore a long coat. Mom differentiates between a jacket and what she calls a long coat (which I would just call a coat). The grandmother in Oregon grew up on a farm, but I don't know when she was born. Mom and Dad went to college in Oregon in the late 40's, by which time it was OK for her to wear trousers in the winter. She says that one winter in Minneapolis when she was in high school (late 30's) she had to wear two long sleeved garments at the same time for the first time, and remembers having to be told to grab the cuffs of the underneath layer so the sleeves wouldn't ride up. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 01:18:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA10911 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 01:18:08 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA27775; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 23:30:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA25694 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 23:25:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA25657 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 23:25:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.210] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 1012go-0000qV-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 22:25:02 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990114214048.00be4400@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 21:42:07 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: H-COST: re:undergarments In-Reply-To: <000201be3ff1$50e7f680$e517ffd0@default> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >When I was in elementary school in the 1950's I wouldn't be >caught dead without my frothy nylon tafetta and lace slip >petticoats to make my skirts stand out. It was a great >pleasure to buy two more each year and to wear them, as they >were in and of themselves so pretty and not the least bit of >trouble. Nasty things to sit on. I remember these, and nylon net marks on my legs. Itchy scratchy and no fun. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 01:39:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA11016 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 01:39:28 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA29643; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 23:52:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA27447 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 23:47:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from gti.net (apollo.gti.net [199.171.27.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA27441 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 23:47:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from gti.net (morr0683.gti.net [208.216.122.83]) by gti.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA04605 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 01:47:23 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <369EE3BB.3A0E0EDF@gti.net> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 01:44:11 -0500 From: "Lisa R." X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Lecture on 1790s References: <199901140630.BAA16115@jefferson.patriot.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Lisa R." Hi- I would love to attend the Gadsby's Tavern lecture but unfortunately cannot. Is there some way I could receive/purchase any literature/info. packet that may be part of the lecture? Please? Deb Rand aquazoo@patriot.net wrote: > -Poster: > > Sat., Jan. 16, 1999, 1 p.m., Gadsby's Tavern Museum, 134 N Royal St., > Alex. Va. 703-836-2863; Free w/admission or $4 for adults: "The 1790s: > Bridging the Fashion Gap," Lecture by Alden O'Brien, Assoc. Curator of > Costume, DAR Museum. "The 1790s is a fascinating but neglected decade in > the history of costume. How did fashion make the transition from the > stiff-bodied, voluminous dresses of George Washington's time to the > soft, high-waisted styles of the era of Jane Austen? Both men's and > women's fashions underwent a period of great innovation and > experimentation." > > This lecture is a revised, expanded and improved (I hope) version of the > lecture I gave at the 1st Gadsby's Symposium two years ago. Here I'll > venture into men's dress a bit, and will go into details of construction > of the variety of transitional styles that appear in the 1790s, with > more conservative uses overlapping with newer styles and piecing > methods. Some attention will be given to accessories and hair, but I > want to concentrate on the dress construction overall--also the > transitional underpinnings. Hope to see some of you there! > > No reservations necessary; for more info call 703-838-4605. > > Alden O'Brien > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 04:06:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA17422 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 04:06:52 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id CAA07531; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 02:19:49 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id CAA07801 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 02:14:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.39]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id CAA07796 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 02:14:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from LOCALNAME ([12.66.33.179]) by mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP id <19990115091419.TBG19944@LOCALNAME> for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:14:19 +0000 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Connie Carroll" Organization: Home For Deranged Bunnies To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 04:12:33 +0000 Subject: Re: H-COST: Cuff puzzle in painting Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.30) Message-Id: <19990115091419.TBG19944@LOCALNAME> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Connie Carroll" Would someone repost the URL for the painting or tell how to find it on the web site. I couldn't get there. Kassandra NickKraken JUST CALL ME MISTRESS BUNNY _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 08:47:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA18796 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:47:39 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA17791; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:00:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id GAA20106 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 06:55:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id GAA20089 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 06:55:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from test (ip203-69.cc.interlog.com [207.34.203.69]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA26852 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:55:09 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990114172449.00924a10@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 17:24:49 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: Cuff puzzle in painting In-Reply-To: <006201be3f5a$b63cd880$6d63b5cf@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >Here's another link: (the one Teddy provided doesn't work from my server) >http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/m/mabuse/baudouin.jpg I had the same problem. >>Is this man wearing another, long sleeved, garment *under* that >>beautiful shirt, the only part visible being the picadils/tabs at >>the wrist?? Nope, I think they are gloves. If you look at the left side of his index finger on his right hand I see a faint line which *could* be a seam. I also think that the wrinkles shown are in the wrong place for a bare hand. >The picadilled cuffs look very leathery, especially when you consider >the width between snips, there's no evident fraying, and the colour - a >sort of light rose-orange - is also suggestive. I would have to agree with this as well. Also the Spanish were known for making incredibly fine leather gloves. There are records of a Spanish noble woman (can't remember who) who bought her gloves a gross at a time! This suggests to me that they were so fine that they would wear out quickly - these gloves seem to me, to be of that sort. >Or is it possible that this fabric has been sewn on beneath as a guard to >protect the delicately pleated cuffs? Well I've never seen any evidence for something like that. I don't understand what the guards would be sewn to? >He's wearing three garments for certain - the creamy brocade robe, the >slashed black doublet, the very full and decorated shirt. Is it possible >that he is also wearing a leather underdoublet and perhaps an undershirt >beneath that, for comfort? In my understanding of 16th century layering is: he *could* have worn another shirt under that one but not a doublet or jerkin. Isn't his outfit just gorgeous though! I think it's interesting that his sleeves, doublet/jerkin, and hosen are all a very dark blue or a very blue black. Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 08:47:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA18797 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:47:39 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA17793; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:00:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id GAA20108 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 06:55:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id GAA20090 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 06:55:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from test (ip203-69.cc.interlog.com [207.34.203.69]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA26861 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:55:11 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990114173301.00924970@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 17:33:01 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: H-COST: On the subject of children & puzzles In-Reply-To: <006201be3f5a$b63cd880$6d63b5cf@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, Isn't the outfit on Giovanni de Medici strange for a child? You can see leg! http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/b/bronzino/portrait/g_medici.jpg Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 09:00:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA18872 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:00:42 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA18669; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:13:58 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA21313 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:08:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from april.dnaco.net (root@april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA21293 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:08:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA23354 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:02:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.8.4/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA14786 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:09:37 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:09:33 -0500 (EST) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Cuff puzzle in painting In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990114172449.00924a10@mail.interlog.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: aleed > >http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/m/mabuse/baudouin.jpg > > >>Is this man wearing another, long sleeved, garment *under* that > >>beautiful shirt, the only part visible being the picadils/tabs at > >>the wrist?? I, too, think they are gloves--the coloring is different than that of his face, and there are distinct wrinkles between his fingers. Another portrait of his which shows a man's hands (http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/m/mabuse/carondel.jpg) has the man's hands and face painted an identical color & texture, and lacks the wrinkles that baudouin.jpg has. This is one of those cases where a look at the original painting would be incredibly useful. Drea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 10:00:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA19195 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:00:42 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA23692; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:14:04 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA28019 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:08:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.pacifier.com (root@smtp.pacifier.com [199.2.117.96]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA27985 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:08:16 -0700 (MST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: from grendal2 (ip233.van19.pacifier.com [216.65.141.233]) by smtp.pacifier.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id HAA25762 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:08:14 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901151508.HAA25762@smtp.pacifier.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:08:20 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: Baa baa black sheep? Priority: normal In-reply-to: <2.2.16.19990114192924.085f31ca@mail2.quiknet.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > Any sheep that is not pure white is a "black sheep". And the colors range > from grays and light browns to brown-black to reddish-browns. All these > colors are natural and could have been found in medieval sheep. Of course, > the white wool takes dyes much more clearly than naturally-colored wool, so > it was more valuable. The "black" wools, of whatever shade, could well have > been given to the poor. >From what I understand, when you are trying to get a really white flock, the black sheep lambs became stew, sausage, lamb chops, etc. Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 10:00:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA19194 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:00:42 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA23679; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:14:02 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA28006 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:08:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.pacifier.com (root@smtp.pacifier.com [199.2.117.96]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA27995 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:08:17 -0700 (MST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: from grendal2 (ip233.van19.pacifier.com [216.65.141.233]) by smtp.pacifier.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id HAA29860 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:08:16 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901151508.HAA29860@smtp.pacifier.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:08:20 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: RE: Keeping Legs Warm in "The Old Days!" Priority: normal In-reply-to: <369E972E.466CCDC3@earthlink.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > The knitted tubes you described are what dancers call 'legwarmers', and > dancers still wear them; I wish they hadn't gone out of fashion, as they > were awfully handy. They're out of fashion!!!! Oh, no. I guess I'll have to stop wearing mine! Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 10:03:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA19215 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:03:06 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA24145; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:16:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA28364 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:10:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.85]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA28346 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:10:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip40.an7-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.18.40]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA24810 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:10:50 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <369F4D1C.148F1F81@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:13:49 -0400 From: Laurel Wilson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03C-NSCP (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Colours References: <4.1.19990114212056.00be8ef0@pop.slip.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Laurel Wilson Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > I own two dictionaries which list watchet, a Websters New International > Dictionary, Second Edition from 1950 and a Century Cyclopedia from 1906. > Both cite Old North French as the language of origin. The Websters thinks > the origin is obscure (duh), and the Century Cyclopedia thinks it > originally relates to the word 'woad', tho it gives no intermediate > derrivation. > The OED says much the same: definitely from Old French, possibly related to 'woad' but the derivation can't be established with certainty. Lauri _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 10:39:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA19417 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:39:00 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA28368; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:52:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA04558 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:46:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f262.hotmail.com [207.82.251.153]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id IAA04546 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:46:49 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 9967 invoked by uid 0); 15 Jan 1999 15:46:18 -0000 Message-ID: <19990115154618.9966.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 157.182.175.116 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:46:17 PST X-Originating-IP: [157.182.175.116] From: "karrissa david" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Just an Introduction Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:46:17 EST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "karrissa david" Hello All, My name is Karrissa David. I have been searching for this list serve for a while. I am glad I have found it. I have just started to study the history of clothing. I has intrigued me for a very long time now. I was introduced to a couple of organtizations which study rennaisance (sp?) history and fell in love. Now I am trying to get all of the information that I can. I am a secretary by day and a fashion designer by night. I wouldn't mind history repeating itself when it comes to fashion. I use many historical elements in my designs. I also have started recreating historical pieces for myself and would like to open a business doing such. I have found tons of patterns and books on sillouetts. However, I would love to get information on fabric used as well as popular colors. I hope to get lots of information. I look forward to hearing from you. Karrissa ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 10:46:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA19482 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:46:35 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA29687; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:00:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA06191 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:54:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA06183 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:54:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from 168.191.22.96 (sdn-ar-002dcwashP318.dialsprint.net [168.191.22.96]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA13960 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:54:26 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <369F222A.15AE255C@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 11:10:47 +0000 From: margo king X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Help! with Victorian X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <4.1.19990114212056.00be8ef0@pop.slip.net> <369F4D1C.148F1F81@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: margo king Dear List - I need some help! The Theme of The 45th Washington Antiques Show (Jan6-9, 2000) is "Behind Closed Doors: Victorian Secrets". In both our eductional catalogue, loan exhibition, and Symposium we want to take a look at things that were not what they appeared to be - for example - all the corsetry that produced a great figure but caused all those problems. This look at things will extend into other areas - fantastic silver that upon looking at it you can't imaginewhat it is - "slice of real life". Does anyone have a reference for early Victorian ladies putting bits of material on back side of buttons impregnated with their 'perfume or scent' - as a remider of them when their men went to war, away, etc? Jewelry that was not what it appeared to be? Any Victorian refences, sources that are accurate (any subject area) would be wonderful.We are also looking for writers for catalogue/speakers for Symposium - thoughts, ideas are welcome. We are also thinking of doing a costume ball on Saturday, Jan 8, 2000. It would have to be more expensive than most period dances, sincewe are a charity show - but I think we have the population to draw from - Washington, DC metropolitan area. Talk to me please!!! Margo King, Show Chair 2000 - email directly (mkings@earthlink.net), through the list if you think info would be of general interest, or call 301-983-8835. THANKS! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 10:52:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA19535 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:52:55 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA00726; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:06:31 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA07448 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:00:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA07441 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:00:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (2Cust39.tnt3.sfo3.da.uu.net [153.37.10.39]) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA28461 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:00:42 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <369F66F2.BBF057A1@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:04:02 -0800 From: Christina Conklin X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: ethnic costume -- eliz References: <199901141900.MAA01480@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Christina Conklin > eliz . . . When youdo, could you please let me/us know where to find it online? > Many thanks, Christy > I have made and worn 16th C Mughal garb at SCA events and at Pennsic. > I've also made and worn SCA period Turkish, Russian, and Ukranian. > Those are my main areas of interest, and I have an extensive library. > Unfortunately, I have to update the online copy of my bibliography. > I'll try to make that available again in a couple of days. > > ...eliz > _________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 10:53:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA19539 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:53:00 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA00848; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:06:45 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA07498 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:01:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from epicurus.miningco.com (epicurus.miningco.com [207.122.100.23]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id JAA07479 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:00:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from s244158.microweb.net [208.201.244.158] (HELO lisa) by epicurus.miningco.com (AltaVista Mail V2.0/2.0 BL23 listener) id 0000_0143_369f_75b3_cd2a; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:06:59 -0500 Message-Id: <4.1.19990115075101.0097d880@mail.tmsonline.com> X-Sender: reenactment@mail.miningco.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:59:58 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lisa Scovel Subject: Re: H-COST: Just an Introduction In-Reply-To: <19990115154618.9966.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lisa Scovel The people on this list are just wonderful for answering this sort of question, but you may also want to check out some of the available resources on the Web and see if you find the stuff you're looking for. I have a whole list of Renaissance Era links that includes some color and fabric inormation. http://reenactment.miningco.com/msub21.htm For the specific kind of information you're looking for, the Elizabethan Costuming Page (maintained by one of our very own list members) would be a great place to start. http://www.dnaco.net/~aleed/corsets/general.html Also try some general costuming sites like: http://users.aol.com/nebula5/costume.html The history section includes several early Renaissance links, in addition to the Tudor and Elizabethan. http://users.aol.com/nebula5/tcpinfo2.html#history If you're more interested in early At 10:46 AM 1/15/99 -0500, you wrote: >I have found tons of patterns and books on sillouetts. However, I would >love to get information on fabric used as well as popular colors. > *********************** lisa scovel historical reenactment guide the mining co. http://reenactment.miningco.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 11:02:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA19608 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 11:02:26 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA02158; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:16:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA09342 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:10:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA09327 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:10:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA18659 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:10:15 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <369F6883.FA6B6ADD@serv.net> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:10:43 -0800 From: Merouda the True X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Cuff puzzle in painting References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Merouda the True Probably isn't worth much, but I *totally* disagree. There is no way I could agree that he is wearing gloves. :) Doesn't mean I can explain the picked cuffs, however. :} Cynthia -- Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 11:15:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA19698 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 11:15:56 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA03795; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:29:34 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA11924 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:23:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA11898 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:23:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from 168.191.22.96 (sdn-ar-002dcwashP318.dialsprint.net [168.191.22.96]) by goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA28905 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:23:32 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <369F28FA.D8BC0DD8@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 11:40:01 +0000 From: margo king X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Textile Museum X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <199901141900.MAA01480@indra.com> <369F66F2.BBF057A1@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: margo king Textile Museum - 2320 S Street, Washington, DC 20008 - (202-667-0441) - Founded in 1925 with the collection of George Hewitt-Myers, museum houses over 10,000 woven pieces of artistic and archaeological significance - museum is small, they can only display a fraction of their treasures. World's finest collecion of Peruin weavings. Library divided into fine arts, decorative arts, techniques, costumes, and textile processes (all organized by nationality!) Library open to public, gift shop has wide variety of books on textile work. They also have a newsletter. I have found the staff very good to work with, and helpful! Hopes this helps those that were wondering about the museum - a must see if you are visitingWashington. Margo King _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 11:16:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA19705 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 11:16:57 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA03984; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:30:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA12164 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:24:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA12119 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:24:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p11.directcon.net [206.170.184.60]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA14560 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:20:08 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:20:08 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901151620.IAA14560@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: 'baby walker' Elizabethan Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson At 11:30 AM 1/14/99 -0800, you wrote: > >-Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > > >>Dear Katya, >>Your baby walker outfit sounds so cool! Any way to see pictures? > >There aren't any. How many of us are guilty of this? I know I am, I've made dozens of costumes that never got photographed because I was waiting till I got around to getting then potographed in a proper setting, by a good photographer, etc. One of my New Year's resolutions is to keep a camera in my studio and never let anything out the door without a photo. It might not look pretty, but at least I'll have some kind of record. I saw that baby walker/farthingale, and it was awesome. A tiny elizabethan lady, scooting across the hall as she were on wheels..Oh! she is! Margo Anderson "One Tough Costumer" _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 11:25:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA19756 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 11:25:09 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA05097; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:38:46 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA13844 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:32:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA13805 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:32:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p11.directcon.net [206.170.184.60]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA16497 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:28:24 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:28:24 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901151628.IAA16497@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: RE: Keeping Legs Warm in "The Old Days!" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson I'd like >to hear from those who remember the 20's-40's and hear how >they dealt with the chill! I have pictures of my father's sister in the 30's, in Brooklyn, all dressed up in wool coats with matching leggings. These were made of the same cloth as the coat, fitted to the leg, and came down over the shoe top and up higher than the coat hem. They buttoned up the sides, which must have been a tedious chore. These outfits were made for my aunt by her grandfather, a tailor, but I think it was the standard style for little girls. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 11:33:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA19811 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 11:33:09 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA06303; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:46:49 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA15765 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:40:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA15733 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:40:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p11.directcon.net [206.170.184.60]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA18336 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:36:20 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:36:20 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901151636.IAA18336@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: RE: Vermont Country Store Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson >hair), large plastic 'tortoiseshell' hairpins, I just have to tell everyone: after years of searching for these hairpins in obscure outlets and paying big bucks for them, I've now found them at K-Mart! 2 for $2, with all the other hair stuff, packaged under the "Cosmopolitan" brand name. the same line includes hair sticks, combs, and other doodads, all in a good looking imitation tortoiseshell. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 11:34:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA19818 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 11:34:49 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA06542; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:48:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA16291 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:42:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA16272 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:42:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p11.directcon.net [206.170.184.60]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA18752 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:38:11 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:38:11 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901151638.IAA18752@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Other new list: what was it again? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson At 04:52 PM 1/14/99 -0500, you wrote: > >-Poster: Danielle Nunn > >Greetings, > >>Last week or so, one of the 'regulars' posted information on a new list for >>historical women's issues - could you repost please-or send to me off-list? >>Thanks in advance. > >When was this posted? I really don't think I'm getting every message. :( I sent it on the 1st. I seem to have missed a few messages, too. Anybody know what could be going on? Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 11:56:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA19964 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 11:56:37 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA09988; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:10:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA23129 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:04:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from isis.netherworld.com (isis.Netherworld.COM [199.165.233.10]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA23050 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:03:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost by isis.netherworld.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA16517 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:55:31 -0700 (MST) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:55:30 -0700 (MST) From: Sylvia Rognstad To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: RE: h-costume-digest V4 #35 In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990114213624.00be7e30@pop.slip.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sylvia Rognstad On Thu, 14 Jan 1999, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > Dylon dye. It is as easy to use as that dye-emulater Rit, but it is real dye. > > >I am making a new 16th century upper-middle class outfit for faire this > >year. I have found a brought a brocade that is white and I want to dye it > >burgandy... It is 100% cotton and takes dye well (I tried a swatch before I > >bought it) My one concern is that, with the intensity of the sun baking me > >all day it will most likely fade quickly with RIT. Is there any way to keep > >this from happening? Is there a finish I can put on to keep it from fading? > >Is there a better kind of dye than RIT that I can use that won't fade so > >easily? Anyone have any tips? Rit is real dye, of course, or it wouldnt dye fabric. The problem with Rit is that it has all different types of dye so that at least one of them will bind with whatever fabric you are using This means that the rest of it just washes down the drain, which I now realize is pretty wasteful. I used to run a theatrical costume shop and we bought Rit by the gallon. Now that I know more about dyeing, I would never do that. It's much more cost effective to buy smaller amounts of specific kinds of dyes. Sylvia. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 12:03:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA20033 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:03:19 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA11148; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:17:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA24445 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:11:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA24384 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:10:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.217.218.23] (ell82.acadia.net [205.217.218.66]) by p2.acadia.net (8.8.5/8.8.6) with SMTP id MAA20416 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:10:37 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:10:40 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: gloves in paintings Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) <> Yes, and keep in mind that whatever seams in the gloves might have been painted in may also have been faded/removed entirely by cleaning the painting in recent years. Deborah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 12:08:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA20070 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:08:10 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA11919; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:21:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA21645 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:58:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from public.ndh.com (public.ndh.net [194.97.97.21]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA21618 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:58:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from Andrea (port1067.koeln.ndh.net [195.227.37.67]) by public.ndh.com (8.8.7/8.8.0) with ESMTP id RAA28973 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:58:34 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <3695DCEC.38A00EC3@ndh.net> Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 11:24:53 +0100 From: Andrea Clef X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [de] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: book publication X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------56007D64D6AF7893DA2613F7" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Andrea Clef --------------56007D64D6AF7893DA2613F7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Are the patterns taken from extant garments, or are they the author's own > guesses? > > I would consider ordering the book if the patterns are from real garments. > > --Robin > Surviving garments of this medieval period are very rare, it is said in the book that they reconstructed the stitches from these but it is not mentioned whether they also copied the patterns from real garments. The most used method of medieval pattern reconstruction is looking at stone figures or paintings that have survived. So I can`t say for sure where the patterns originate from. > The bad news is that they don't have this book > Ok, so if somebody would like to get this book, please tell me. But I`m not sure about the shipping costs to the States yet, that also depends on if you choose surface or air mail. You could then send me the money ($26 + shipping) either in dollar notes in a letter (ok, could be risky) or wire it to my bank account. I`ve made bad experiences with checks, so that`s not the best method. If you`re interested, please contact me by personal e-mail, thanks! Many greetings, Diana --------------56007D64D6AF7893DA2613F7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 

Are the patterns taken from extant garments, or are they the author's own
guesses?

I would consider ordering the book if the patterns are from real garments. 

--Robin
Surviving garments of this medieval period are very rare, it is said in the book that they
reconstructed the stitches from these but it is not mentioned whether they also
copied the patterns from real garments.
The most used method of medieval pattern reconstruction is looking at stone figures
or paintings that have survived.
So I can`t say for sure where the patterns originate from.
  
The bad news is that they don't have this book
Ok, so if somebody would like to get this book, please tell me.
But I`m not sure about the shipping costs to the States yet, that also depends on
if you choose surface or air mail.
You could then send me the money ($26 + shipping) either in dollar notes in a letter
(ok, could be risky) or wire it to my bank account.
I`ve made bad experiences with checks, so that`s not the best method.
If you`re interested, please contact me by personal e-mail, thanks!

Many greetings,
Diana
  --------------56007D64D6AF7893DA2613F7-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 12:10:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA20088 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:10:56 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA12457; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:24:31 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA25934 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:18:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from bigpapa.nothinbut.net (root@bigpapa.nothinbut.net [207.44.32.11]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA25925 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:18:32 -0700 (MST) From: pame@nothinbut.net Received: from bigpapa.nothinbut.net (mtl-ct1-06.nothinbut.net [207.44.46.16]) by bigpapa.nothinbut.net (8.8.8/8.8.8/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id MAA13200 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:18:31 -0500 Message-Id: <199901151718.MAA13200@bigpapa.nothinbut.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:16:10 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays Priority: normal References: <199901111101.GAA24064@bigpapa.nothinbut.net> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: pame@nothinbut.net > -Poster: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> > > > For the record: How old is she now? > My oldest daughter is fifteen. She is 6 ft. tall and weighs around 119 lbs. Will she thicken up as she ages-my guess would be yes.. pame _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 12:17:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA20121 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:17:53 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA13315; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:31:40 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA27241 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:25:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.netwiz.net (Mail.NetWiz.Net [208.136.106.6]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA27220 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:25:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from slave (BayArea56k442.NetWiz.Net [208.164.208.42]) by mail.netwiz.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id JAA06410 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:25:31 -0800 Message-ID: <369F7904.16DE@netwiz.net> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:21:08 -0800 From: Susan Fatemi X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: RE: Keeping Legs Warm in "The Old Days!" References: <199901151628.IAA16497@zeus.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Susan Fatemi > I'd like > >to hear from those who remember the 20's-40's and hear how > >they dealt with the chill! Why just the 40's? I went to high school in the 60's and girls could not wear pants to school unless it was actually snowing or the temp. dropped below 32. You could wear dancer's tights if you could find them. One "new" girl wore ski pants to church (it was *freezing*) and everyone was scandalized! I wore knee socks and pettipants and/or one of those long panty girdles that were discussed. I didn't have much "jiggle" in those days, but the girdle was warm! (this was N.E. California, if anyone thinks it doesn't snow here. A horrible little hick town, but in my senior year I got to move to Santa Cruz: no snow. beaches. surfers. Heaven. but girls still got sent home for wearing culottes or granny dresses. ) Susan F. -- Oh Noh! Kimonos! susanf@netwiz.net http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 12:25:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA20175 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:25:55 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA14335; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:39:47 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA29051 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:33:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from public.ndh.com (public.ndh.net [194.97.97.21]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA29032 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:33:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from Andrea (port035.koeln.ndh.net [195.94.92.35]) by public.ndh.com (8.8.7/8.8.0) with ESMTP id SAA03654 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:33:42 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <3695E532.FEA86661@ndh.net> Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 12:00:08 +0100 From: Andrea Clef X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [de] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Your websites X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Andrea Clef Hello! I believe that many of you have got own websites that deal with our favorite topic historical costuming! If that`s the case, I`d be glad to get the adresses of them as I`m always looking for good ones with new information. At the moment I`m not looking for a special period, so name them all, thanks! And the idea of an own website for this mailing list is also a great idea, of course! When it is being realized, I`d love to give some pics as well. Many greetings, Diana _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 12:37:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA20242 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:37:50 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA16046; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:51:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA02406 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:45:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from hummer.tci.net (hummer.TCI.NET [209.19.4.19]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA02356 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:45:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from c59303-a (c59303-a.mckiny1.tx.home.com [24.4.53.172]) by hummer.tci.net with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2232.9) id C6F4DZ0Q; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:44:18 -0700 Message-ID: <009901be40af$f82855c0$ac350418@c59303-a.mckiny1.tx.home.com> From: "Franchesca Havas" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Your websites Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 11:51:41 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Franchesca Havas" Gloves: http://www.io.com/~ches/gloves.html Links: http://www.io.com/~ches/links.html Illuminations: http://www.io.com/~ches/illuminations/ Sincerely, Ches aka Chiara Francesca Steward of Coronation XL http://www.io.com/~ches/coronation99 -----Original Message----- From: Andrea Clef To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Friday, January 15, 1999 11:28 AM Subject: H-COST: Your websites : :-Poster: Andrea Clef : :Hello! : :I believe that many of you have got own websites that deal with our :favorite topic :historical costuming! :If that`s the case, I`d be glad to get the adresses of them as I`m :always looking for :good ones with new information. :At the moment I`m not looking for a special period, so name them all, :thanks! : :And the idea of an own website for this mailing list is also a great :idea, of course! :When it is being realized, I`d love to give some pics as well. : :Many greetings, :Diana : : _________________________________________________________________ : To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com : with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME : _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 12:42:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA20275 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:42:41 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA16910; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:56:34 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA00867 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:41:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from artemis.chass.utoronto.ca (artemis.chass.utoronto.ca [128.100.160.6]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA00711 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:40:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from dsc (ppp41.chass.utoronto.ca [128.100.160.161]) by artemis.chass.utoronto.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA08894 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:42:08 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <003501be40ae$a50afb00$a1a06480@dsc> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: Subject: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #46 Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:19:45 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Greetings! >Any sheep that is not pure white is a "black sheep". And the colors range >from grays and light browns to brown-black to reddish-browns. All these >colors are natural and could have been found in medieval sheep. Of course, >the white wool takes dyes much more clearly than naturally-colored wool, so >it was more valuable. The "black" wools, of whatever shade, could well have >been given to the poor. In fact, it's thought that this is how the Dominican Order got their black-coloured garments (most of their habit was white, but the black hood which draped over the shoulders gave them the name of Black Friars). Being a mendicant Order, they were dependent on alms for everything, including clothing. I'd be curious to know whether the Benedictines, who wore all black, did this as well or whether they actually used a dye of some kind. Susan Carroll-Clark _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 14:26:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA20869 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 14:26:42 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA00437; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:40:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA22780 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:34:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from hil-img-4.compuserve.com (hil-img-4.compuserve.com [149.174.177.134]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA22758 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:33:57 -0700 (MST) Received: (from root@localhost) by hil-img-4.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.17) id OAA03545 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 14:33:27 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 14:33:13 -0500 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: WW II Help Kids clothing To: "INTERNET:h-costume-digest@indra.com" Message-ID: <199901151433_MC2-66CF-D24D@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id OAA20869 Status: O -Poster: Melanie Wilson Has anyone any pictures of Children in Britain in World War 2 they could scan and send me for my daughters school project ? Also any kids games & special memories of food ? Thanks Mel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 14:49:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA20974 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 14:49:43 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA03321; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 13:03:14 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA26635 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:57:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from dias.net (dias.net [199.170.176.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA26617 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:57:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (ophelia@localhost) by dias.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA19440 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 14:06:14 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from ophelia@dias.net) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 14:06:12 -0600 (CST) From: "Sara J. Davitt" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: RE: Keeping Legs Warm in "The Old Days!" In-Reply-To: <369F7904.16DE@netwiz.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Sara J. Davitt" > > I'd like > > >to hear from those who remember the 20's-40's and hear how > > >they dealt with the chill! > > Why just the 40's? I went to high school in the 60's and girls > could not wear pants to school unless it was actually snowing > or the temp. dropped below 32. You could wear dancer's tights Why just the 60's??? I went to gradeschool in the 80's!.. and It wasn't until 1987 or so that the schoolboard passed a allowance for girls to wear pants. The thing that annoyed us girls the most was that they would not allow us to huddle together in little groups, or be anywhere within 5 feet from the building, and it's warmer nooks, and cranies. That was the rule. and All we could wear was our little plaid catholic girl uniforms. They used to have some old ones for sale that you could buy from the school, and those were really nice wool with little secret pockets to put your hands... But since the Polyester revolution... alas, they are no more. I really loved that skirt. *sigh* But we had to wear those big thick cabled tights (the kind that they don't make for women) and Moonboots. We also huddled around and wrapped our scarves around our legs in a spiral mummy type of things. Then there was slways the standard girlie bouncing and gigglgin to keep us distracted. Cheers, Sarahj _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 15:24:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA21158 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:24:32 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA07987; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 13:38:35 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA02593 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 13:32:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.netwiz.net (Mail.NetWiz.Net [208.136.106.6]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA02582 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 13:32:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from slave (BayArea56k498.NetWiz.Net [208.164.208.98]) by mail.netwiz.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id MAA32532 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:32:22 -0800 Message-ID: <369FA4D3.352F@netwiz.net> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:28:03 -0800 From: Susan Fatemi X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: fort ross/ ethnic References: <199901141553.IAA17426@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Susan Fatemi Some time ago there was a thread about what Russian women settlers at Fort Ross (Calif.) might have worn. I wasn't interested at the time, but my boss's wife and daughter want to "dress up" to go to some event there and he's asked if I could find any info. on it. I lent him my Tilke book (explaining how much it would cost to replace it!) But if anyone has any info. specific to Fort Ross, I'd sure appreciate it. (I wallowed around in the archives, but couldn't find what I wanted, sorry) BTW, that Tilke book, Patterns and costume of design(?) 1990 ed. is one of my top 5 ethnic/Asian costuming books. the others would be the Topkapi Textiles book (which I got for what I consider a perfectly reasonable price) The Mongol Costumes, and the 5000 years of Chinese costume (all previously mentioned in this thread) No. 5 would probably be Wada's Shibori book, or one of the other umpteen Japanese costume/textile books. Another good book, which I don't own, is by Jennifer Scarce; Women's costume from the Near East (something like that) It's mostly Turkish and she includes diagrams of real garments. I photocopied a *lot* of it. Haven't seen anything good on Moghul costumes. has anyone else?? Susan F. -- Oh Noh! Kimonos! susanf@netwiz.net http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 17:06:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA21762 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:06:37 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA22778; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:19:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA21795 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:13:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA21784 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:12:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p38.directcon.net [206.170.184.87]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA12776 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 14:08:32 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 14:08:32 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901152208.OAA12776@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: RE: Keeping Legs Warm in "The Old Days!" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson At 09:21 AM 1/15/99 -0800, you wrote: > >-Poster: Susan Fatemi > >(this was N.E. California, if anyone thinks it doesn't snow >here. A horrible little hick town, Really? Me too! What town was it? Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 17:07:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA21773 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:07:29 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA22942; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:20:11 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA21985 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:14:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA21969 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:13:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from sue.computercrafters.com (pm3frd1-68-79.intrepid.net [206.102.68.79]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA14201 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:13:55 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990115172416.0082d100@intrepid.net> X-Sender: sshatto@intrepid.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:24:16 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Sue Shatto Subject: Re: H-COST: Your websites In-Reply-To: <3695E532.FEA86661@ndh.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sue Shatto Diana, Yes, I'm sure many of us do have web sites we could share with the group. I hope you will look up my site. I specialize in Civil War head wear, but have a very large and searchable vintage clothing section. Cordially, Sue Shatto Sue@VictorianMillinery.com http://www.VictorianMillinery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 17:37:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA21952 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:37:53 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA26466; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:50:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA26796 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:44:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from gerbil.slip.net (gerbil.slip.net [207.171.193.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA26774 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:44:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from root by gerbil.slip.net with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 101Hoh-00005r-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 14:34:11 -0800 Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by falcon.net. (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA09574 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 06:01:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA17898; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:01:07 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id GAA20108 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 06:55:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id GAA20090 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 06:55:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from test (ip203-69.cc.interlog.com [207.34.203.69]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA26861 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:55:11 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990114173301.00924970@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 17:33:01 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: H-COST: On the subject of children & puzzles In-Reply-To: <006201be3f5a$b63cd880$6d63b5cf@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Danielle Nunn -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, Isn't the outfit on Giovanni de Medici strange for a child? You can see leg! http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/b/bronzino/portrait/g_medici.jpg Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 17:37:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA21956 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:37:55 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA26390; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:50:02 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA26669 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:43:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from gerbil.slip.net (gerbil.slip.net [207.171.193.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA26654 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:43:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from root by gerbil.slip.net with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 101Hnw-0007ik-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 14:33:24 -0800 Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by falcon.net. (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA09494 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 06:00:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA17885; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:01:04 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id GAA20106 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 06:55:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id GAA20089 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 06:55:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from test (ip203-69.cc.interlog.com [207.34.203.69]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA26852 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:55:09 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990114172449.00924a10@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 17:24:49 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: Cuff puzzle in painting In-Reply-To: <006201be3f5a$b63cd880$6d63b5cf@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Danielle Nunn -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >Here's another link: (the one Teddy provided doesn't work from my server) >http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/m/mabuse/baudouin.jpg I had the same problem. >>Is this man wearing another, long sleeved, garment *under* that >>beautiful shirt, the only part visible being the picadils/tabs at >>the wrist?? Nope, I think they are gloves. If you look at the left side of his index finger on his right hand I see a faint line which *could* be a seam. I also think that the wrinkles shown are in the wrong place for a bare hand. >The picadilled cuffs look very leathery, especially when you consider >the width between snips, there's no evident fraying, and the colour - a >sort of light rose-orange - is also suggestive. I would have to agree with this as well. Also the Spanish were known for making incredibly fine leather gloves. There are records of a Spanish noble woman (can't remember who) who bought her gloves a gross at a time! This suggests to me that they were so fine that they would wear out quickly - these gloves seem to me, to be of that sort. >Or is it possible that this fabric has been sewn on beneath as a guard to >protect the delicately pleated cuffs? Well I've never seen any evidence for something like that. I don't understand what the guards would be sewn to? >He's wearing three garments for certain - the creamy brocade robe, the >slashed black doublet, the very full and decorated shirt. Is it possible >that he is also wearing a leather underdoublet and perhaps an undershirt >beneath that, for comfort? In my understanding of 16th century layering is: he *could* have worn another shirt under that one but not a doublet or jerkin. Isn't his outfit just gorgeous though! I think it's interesting that his sleeves, doublet/jerkin, and hosen are all a very dark blue or a very blue black. Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 17:41:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA21980 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:41:08 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA26860; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:53:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA27300 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:47:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from gerbil.slip.net (gerbil.slip.net [207.171.193.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA27283 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:47:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from root by gerbil.slip.net with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 101Hri-0000ma-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 14:37:18 -0800 Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by falcon.net. (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA10127 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 06:11:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA18715; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:14:07 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA21313 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:08:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from april.dnaco.net (root@april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA21293 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:08:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA23354 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:02:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.8.4/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA14786 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:09:37 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:09:33 -0500 (EST) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Cuff puzzle in painting In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990114172449.00924a10@mail.interlog.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: aleed -Poster: aleed > >http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/m/mabuse/baudouin.jpg > > >>Is this man wearing another, long sleeved, garment *under* that > >>beautiful shirt, the only part visible being the picadils/tabs at > >>the wrist?? I, too, think they are gloves--the coloring is different than that of his face, and there are distinct wrinkles between his fingers. Another portrait of his which shows a man's hands (http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/m/mabuse/carondel.jpg) has the man's hands and face painted an identical color & texture, and lacks the wrinkles that baudouin.jpg has. This is one of those cases where a look at the original painting would be incredibly useful. Drea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 17:52:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA22033 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:52:46 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA28497; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:06:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA29448 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:00:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.rma.edu (root@smtp.rma.edu [207.0.141.48]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA29424 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:00:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from malruck (USR1-67.rmaonline.net [207.48.171.67]) by smtp.rma.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA00416; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:56:28 -0500 Message-ID: <000101be40d9$eb01d7c0$43ab30cf@malruck> From: "Joseph & Christine" To: "Historic Costume Mailing List" , "DC Costume Mailing List" Subject: H-COST: Commode Question Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:53:17 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Joseph & Christine" I have a question on the head dress commonly known as the "commode," "fontage" or "tower," ca. late 17th C. In James Laver's "Costume & Fashion" is the following statement: "Louis XIV had grown tired of it by 1699 and expressed his disapproval, but it was the appearance at Court of an Englishwoman, Lady Sandwich, 'avec une petite coiffure basse,' which really changed the mode." Later, "We find the Mercure Galant for November 1699 remarking that the old style of high coiffure was beginning to appear ridiculous." My question is, what is the "petite coiffure basse" worn by Lady Sandwich, and how appropriate is it really to appear the the high headdress that "was beginning to appear ridiculous" for the Williamsburg tercentenary? Thank you, Christine L. Malson-Ruckman _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 17:53:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA22040 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:53:38 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA28600; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:07:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA29555 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:00:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from gerbil.slip.net (gerbil.slip.net [207.171.193.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA29516 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:00:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from root by gerbil.slip.net with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 101I4V-0003QI-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 14:50:31 -0800 Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by ferret.slip.net (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA16097 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:29:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA13403; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:31:54 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA27241 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:25:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.netwiz.net (Mail.NetWiz.Net [208.136.106.6]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA27220 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:25:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from slave (BayArea56k442.NetWiz.Net [208.164.208.42]) by mail.netwiz.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id JAA06410 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:25:31 -0800 Message-ID: <369F7904.16DE@netwiz.net> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:21:08 -0800 From: Susan Fatemi X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: RE: Keeping Legs Warm in "The Old Days!" References: <199901151628.IAA16497@zeus.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Susan Fatemi -Poster: Susan Fatemi > I'd like > >to hear from those who remember the 20's-40's and hear how > >they dealt with the chill! Why just the 40's? I went to high school in the 60's and girls could not wear pants to school unless it was actually snowing or the temp. dropped below 32. You could wear dancer's tights if you could find them. One "new" girl wore ski pants to church (it was *freezing*) and everyone was scandalized! I wore knee socks and pettipants and/or one of those long panty girdles that were discussed. I didn't have much "jiggle" in those days, but the girdle was warm! (this was N.E. California, if anyone thinks it doesn't snow here. A horrible little hick town, but in my senior year I got to move to Santa Cruz: no snow. beaches. surfers. Heaven. but girls still got sent home for wearing culottes or granny dresses. ) Susan F. -- Oh Noh! Kimonos! susanf@netwiz.net http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 18:13:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA22172 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:13:28 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA01661; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:27:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA02899 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:21:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from gerbil.slip.net (gerbil.slip.net [207.171.193.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA02880 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:21:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from root by gerbil.slip.net with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 101IO8-0005El-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:10:48 -0800 Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by ferret.slip.net (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA17046 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:37:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA14388; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:39:59 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA29051 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:33:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from public.ndh.com (public.ndh.net [194.97.97.21]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA29032 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:33:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from Andrea (port035.koeln.ndh.net [195.94.92.35]) by public.ndh.com (8.8.7/8.8.0) with ESMTP id SAA03654 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:33:42 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <3695E532.FEA86661@ndh.net> Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 12:00:08 +0100 From: Andrea Clef X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [de] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Your websites X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Andrea Clef -Poster: Andrea Clef Hello! I believe that many of you have got own websites that deal with our favorite topic historical costuming! If that`s the case, I`d be glad to get the adresses of them as I`m always looking for good ones with new information. At the moment I`m not looking for a special period, so name them all, thanks! And the idea of an own website for this mailing list is also a great idea, of course! When it is being realized, I`d love to give some pics as well. Many greetings, Diana _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 18:13:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA22176 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:13:39 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA01740; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:27:53 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA02963 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:21:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailhost.cyberramp.net (root@mailhost.cyberramp.net [207.158.64.11]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA02957 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:21:35 -0700 (MST) From: kang@cyberramp.net Received: from hemmert (ftw-tsa5-51.cyberramp.net [207.158.119.51]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-19990112-0936) with SMTP id RAA11361 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:21:32 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <369FCDBA.D66@cyberramp.net> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:22:34 -0600 Organization: L.D. Fox Military Antiques X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Commode Question References: <000101be40d9$eb01d7c0$43ab30cf@malruck> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: kang@cyberramp.net Joseph & Christine wrote: > > -Poster: "Joseph & Christine" > > I have a question on the head dress commonly known as the "commode," > "fontage" or "tower," ca. late 17th C. > > In James Laver's "Costume & Fashion" is the following statement: > > "Louis XIV had grown tired of it by 1699 and expressed his disapproval, but > it was the appearance at Court of an Englishwoman, Lady Sandwich, 'avec une > petite coiffure basse,' which really changed the mode." > > Later, "We find the Mercure Galant for November 1699 remarking that the old > style of high coiffure was beginning to appear ridiculous." > > My question is, what is the "petite coiffure basse" worn by Lady Sandwich, > and how appropriate is it really to appear the the high headdress that "was > beginning to appear ridiculous" for the Williamsburg tercentenary? > > Thank you, > > Christine L. Malson-Ruckman > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME If someone dressed an infant in a "commode" headress, would that make it a commode-baby? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 18:27:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA22263 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:27:37 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA03524; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:41:54 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA05128 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:35:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from gerbil.slip.net (gerbil.slip.net [207.171.193.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA05114 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:35:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from root by gerbil.slip.net with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 101Ic5-0007DM-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:25:13 -0800 Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by ferret.slip.net (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA18402 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:47:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA16096; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:51:31 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA02406 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:45:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from hummer.tci.net (hummer.TCI.NET [209.19.4.19]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA02356 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:45:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from c59303-a (c59303-a.mckiny1.tx.home.com [24.4.53.172]) by hummer.tci.net with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2232.9) id C6F4DZ0Q; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:44:18 -0700 Message-ID: <009901be40af$f82855c0$ac350418@c59303-a.mckiny1.tx.home.com> From: "Franchesca Havas" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Your websites Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 11:51:41 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Franchesca Havas" -Poster: "Franchesca Havas" Gloves: http://www.io.com/~ches/gloves.html Links: http://www.io.com/~ches/links.html Illuminations: http://www.io.com/~ches/illuminations/ Sincerely, Ches aka Chiara Francesca Steward of Coronation XL http://www.io.com/~ches/coronation99 -----Original Message----- From: Andrea Clef To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Friday, January 15, 1999 11:28 AM Subject: H-COST: Your websites : :-Poster: Andrea Clef : :Hello! : :I believe that many of you have got own websites that deal with our :favorite topic :historical costuming! :If that`s the case, I`d be glad to get the adresses of them as I`m :always looking for :good ones with new information. :At the moment I`m not looking for a special period, so name them all, :thanks! : :And the idea of an own website for this mailing list is also a great :idea, of course! :When it is being realized, I`d love to give some pics as well. : :Many greetings, :Diana : : _________________________________________________________________ : To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com : with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME : _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 18:32:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA22298 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:32:09 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA03914; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:46:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA06490 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:39:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from gerbil.slip.net (gerbil.slip.net [207.171.193.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA06411 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:39:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from root by gerbil.slip.net with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 101IgA-00001r-00 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:29:26 -0800 Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by ferret.slip.net (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA19132 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:52:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA16979; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:56:49 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA00867 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:41:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from artemis.chass.utoronto.ca (artemis.chass.utoronto.ca [128.100.160.6]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA00711 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:40:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from dsc (ppp41.chass.utoronto.ca [128.100.160.161]) by artemis.chass.utoronto.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA08894 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:42:08 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <003501be40ae$a50afb00$a1a06480@dsc> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: Subject: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #46 Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:19:45 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Susan Carroll-Clark" -Poster: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Greetings! >Any sheep that is not pure white is a "black sheep". And the colors range >from grays and light browns to brown-black to reddish-browns. All these >colors are natural and could have been found in medieval sheep. Of course, >the white wool takes dyes much more clearly than naturally-colored wool, so >it was more valuable. The "black" wools, of whatever shade, could well have >been given to the poor. In fact, it's thought that this is how the Dominican Order got their black-coloured garments (most of their habit was white, but the black hood which draped over the shoulders gave them the name of Black Friars). Being a mendicant Order, they were dependent on alms for everything, including clothing. I'd be curious to know whether the Benedictines, who wore all black, did this as well or whether they actually used a dye of some kind. Susan Carroll-Clark _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 18:37:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA22351 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:37:12 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA04556; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:51:32 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA08186 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:45:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from gerbil.slip.net (gerbil.slip.net [207.171.193.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA08151 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:45:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from root by gerbil.slip.net with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 101IlK-0000sQ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:34:46 -0800 Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by falcon.net. (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA13581 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:12:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA23818; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:14:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA28019 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:08:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.pacifier.com (root@smtp.pacifier.com [199.2.117.96]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA27985 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:08:16 -0700 (MST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: from grendal2 (ip233.van19.pacifier.com [216.65.141.233]) by smtp.pacifier.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id HAA25762 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:08:14 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901151508.HAA25762@smtp.pacifier.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:08:20 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: Baa baa black sheep? Priority: normal In-reply-to: <2.2.16.19990114192924.085f31ca@mail2.quiknet.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > Any sheep that is not pure white is a "black sheep". And the colors range > from grays and light browns to brown-black to reddish-browns. All these > colors are natural and could have been found in medieval sheep. Of course, > the white wool takes dyes much more clearly than naturally-colored wool, so > it was more valuable. The "black" wools, of whatever shade, could well have > been given to the poor. >From what I understand, when you are trying to get a really white flock, the black sheep lambs became stew, sausage, lamb chops, etc. Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 18:43:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA22390 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:43:09 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA05449; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:57:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA09057 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:51:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from gerbil.slip.net (gerbil.slip.net [207.171.193.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA09041 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:50:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from root by gerbil.slip.net with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 101Ir0-0001sj-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:40:38 -0800 Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by falcon.net. (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA13525 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:11:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA23801; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:14:19 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA28006 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:08:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.pacifier.com (root@smtp.pacifier.com [199.2.117.96]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA27995 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:08:17 -0700 (MST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: from grendal2 (ip233.van19.pacifier.com [216.65.141.233]) by smtp.pacifier.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id HAA29860 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:08:16 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901151508.HAA29860@smtp.pacifier.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:08:20 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: RE: Keeping Legs Warm in "The Old Days!" Priority: normal In-reply-to: <369E972E.466CCDC3@earthlink.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > The knitted tubes you described are what dancers call 'legwarmers', and > dancers still wear them; I wish they hadn't gone out of fashion, as they > were awfully handy. They're out of fashion!!!! Oh, no. I guess I'll have to stop wearing mine! Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 18:44:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA22404 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:44:15 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA05674; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:58:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA09177 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:52:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from gerbil.slip.net (gerbil.slip.net [207.171.193.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA09169 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:52:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from root by gerbil.slip.net with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 101Is6-00025D-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:41:46 -0800 Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by falcon.net. (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA13717 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:14:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA24239; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:16:54 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA28364 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:10:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.85]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA28346 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:10:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip40.an7-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.18.40]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA24810 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:10:50 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <369F4D1C.148F1F81@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:13:49 -0400 From: Laurel Wilson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03C-NSCP (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Colours References: <4.1.19990114212056.00be8ef0@pop.slip.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Laurel Wilson -Poster: Laurel Wilson Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > I own two dictionaries which list watchet, a Websters New International > Dictionary, Second Edition from 1950 and a Century Cyclopedia from 1906. > Both cite Old North French as the language of origin. The Websters thinks > the origin is obscure (duh), and the Century Cyclopedia thinks it > originally relates to the word 'woad', tho it gives no intermediate > derrivation. > The OED says much the same: definitely from Old French, possibly related to 'woad' but the derivation can't be established with certainty. Lauri _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 19:03:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA22521 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:03:55 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA08055; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:18:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA12577 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:11:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from gerbil.slip.net (gerbil.slip.net [207.171.193.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA12567 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:11:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from root by gerbil.slip.net with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 101JBB-0004zx-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:01:29 -0800 Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by falcon.net. (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA16555 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:50:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA28424; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:52:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA04558 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:46:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f262.hotmail.com [207.82.251.153]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id IAA04546 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:46:49 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 9967 invoked by uid 0); 15 Jan 1999 15:46:18 -0000 Message-ID: <19990115154618.9966.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 157.182.175.116 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:46:17 PST X-Originating-IP: [157.182.175.116] From: "karrissa david" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Just an Introduction Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:46:17 EST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "karrissa david" -Poster: "karrissa david" Hello All, My name is Karrissa David. I have been searching for this list serve for a while. I am glad I have found it. I have just started to study the history of clothing. I has intrigued me for a very long time now. I was introduced to a couple of organtizations which study rennaisance (sp?) history and fell in love. Now I am trying to get all of the information that I can. I am a secretary by day and a fashion designer by night. I wouldn't mind history repeating itself when it comes to fashion. I use many historical elements in my designs. I also have started recreating historical pieces for myself and would like to open a business doing such. I have found tons of patterns and books on sillouetts. However, I would love to get information on fabric used as well as popular colors. I hope to get lots of information. I look forward to hearing from you. Karrissa ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 19:07:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA22549 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:07:14 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA08403; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:21:32 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA13072 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:15:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from gerbil.slip.net (gerbil.slip.net [207.171.193.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA13036 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:15:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from root by gerbil.slip.net with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 101JEK-0005PX-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:04:44 -0800 Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by falcon.net. (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA17154 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:57:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA29748; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:00:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA06191 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:54:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA06183 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:54:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from 168.191.22.96 (sdn-ar-002dcwashP318.dialsprint.net [168.191.22.96]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA13960 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:54:26 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <369F222A.15AE255C@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 11:10:47 +0000 From: margo king X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Help! with Victorian X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <4.1.19990114212056.00be8ef0@pop.slip.net> <369F4D1C.148F1F81@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: margo king -Poster: margo king Dear List - I need some help! The Theme of The 45th Washington Antiques Show (Jan6-9, 2000) is "Behind Closed Doors: Victorian Secrets". In both our eductional catalogue, loan exhibition, and Symposium we want to take a look at things that were not what they appeared to be - for example - all the corsetry that produced a great figure but caused all those problems. This look at things will extend into other areas - fantastic silver that upon looking at it you can't imaginewhat it is - "slice of real life". Does anyone have a reference for early Victorian ladies putting bits of material on back side of buttons impregnated with their 'perfume or scent' - as a remider of them when their men went to war, away, etc? Jewelry that was not what it appeared to be? Any Victorian refences, sources that are accurate (any subject area) would be wonderful.We are also looking for writers for catalogue/speakers for Symposium - thoughts, ideas are welcome. We are also thinking of doing a costume ball on Saturday, Jan 8, 2000. It would have to be more expensive than most period dances, sincewe are a charity show - but I think we have the population to draw from - Washington, DC metropolitan area. Talk to me please!!! Margo King, Show Chair 2000 - email directly (mkings@earthlink.net), through the list if you think info would be of general interest, or call 301-983-8835. THANKS! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 19:08:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA22556 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:08:46 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA08637; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:23:00 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA13273 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:16:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from gerbil.slip.net (gerbil.slip.net [207.171.193.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA13244 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:16:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from root by gerbil.slip.net with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 101JFm-0005en-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:06:14 -0800 Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by falcon.net. (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA17697 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:04:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA00907; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:06:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA07498 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:01:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from epicurus.miningco.com (epicurus.miningco.com [207.122.100.23]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id JAA07479 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:00:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from s244158.microweb.net [208.201.244.158] (HELO lisa) by epicurus.miningco.com (AltaVista Mail V2.0/2.0 BL23 listener) id 0000_0143_369f_75b3_cd2a; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:06:59 -0500 Message-Id: <4.1.19990115075101.0097d880@mail.tmsonline.com> X-Sender: reenactment@mail.miningco.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:59:58 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lisa Scovel Subject: Re: H-COST: Just an Introduction In-Reply-To: <19990115154618.9966.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lisa Scovel -Poster: Lisa Scovel The people on this list are just wonderful for answering this sort of question, but you may also want to check out some of the available resources on the Web and see if you find the stuff you're looking for. I have a whole list of Renaissance Era links that includes some color and fabric inormation. http://reenactment.miningco.com/msub21.htm For the specific kind of information you're looking for, the Elizabethan Costuming Page (maintained by one of our very own list members) would be a great place to start. http://www.dnaco.net/~aleed/corsets/general.html Also try some general costuming sites like: http://users.aol.com/nebula5/costume.html The history section includes several early Renaissance links, in addition to the Tudor and Elizabethan. http://users.aol.com/nebula5/tcpinfo2.html#history If you're more interested in early At 10:46 AM 1/15/99 -0500, you wrote: >I have found tons of patterns and books on sillouetts. However, I would >love to get information on fabric used as well as popular colors. > *********************** lisa scovel historical reenactment guide the mining co. http://reenactment.miningco.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 19:08:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA22560 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:08:52 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA08646; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:23:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA13277 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:16:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from gerbil.slip.net (gerbil.slip.net [207.171.193.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA13259 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:16:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from root by gerbil.slip.net with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 101JFn-0005f6-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:06:16 -0800 Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by falcon.net. (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA17711 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:04:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA00791; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:06:40 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA07448 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:00:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA07441 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:00:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (2Cust39.tnt3.sfo3.da.uu.net [153.37.10.39]) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA28461 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:00:42 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <369F66F2.BBF057A1@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:04:02 -0800 From: Christina Conklin X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: ethnic costume -- eliz References: <199901141900.MAA01480@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Christina Conklin -Poster: Christina Conklin > eliz . . . When youdo, could you please let me/us know where to find it online? > Many thanks, Christy > I have made and worn 16th C Mughal garb at SCA events and at Pennsic. > I've also made and worn SCA period Turkish, Russian, and Ukranian. > Those are my main areas of interest, and I have an extensive library. > Unfortunately, I have to update the online copy of my bibliography. > I'll try to make that available again in a couple of days. > > ...eliz > _________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 19:11:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA22581 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:11:01 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA09124; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:25:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA13721 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:18:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from gerbil.slip.net (gerbil.slip.net [207.171.193.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA13714 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:18:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from root by gerbil.slip.net with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 101JI1-00062Z-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:08:33 -0800 Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by falcon.net. (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA18336 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:13:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA02277; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:16:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA09342 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:10:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA09327 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:10:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA18659 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:10:15 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <369F6883.FA6B6ADD@serv.net> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:10:43 -0800 From: Merouda the True X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Cuff puzzle in painting References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Merouda the True -Poster: Merouda the True Probably isn't worth much, but I *totally* disagree. There is no way I could agree that he is wearing gloves. :) Doesn't mean I can explain the picked cuffs, however. :} Cynthia -- Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 19:17:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA22611 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:17:50 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA09873; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:31:54 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA14529 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:25:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from gerbil.slip.net (gerbil.slip.net [207.171.193.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA14521 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:25:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from root by gerbil.slip.net with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 101JOS-0006vn-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:15:12 -0800 Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by falcon.net. (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA19452 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:28:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA04054; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:30:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA12164 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:24:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA12119 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:24:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p11.directcon.net [206.170.184.60]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA14560 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:20:08 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:20:08 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901151620.IAA14560@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: 'baby walker' Elizabethan Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson -Poster: Margo Anderson At 11:30 AM 1/14/99 -0800, you wrote: > >-Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > > >>Dear Katya, >>Your baby walker outfit sounds so cool! Any way to see pictures? > >There aren't any. How many of us are guilty of this? I know I am, I've made dozens of costumes that never got photographed because I was waiting till I got around to getting then potographed in a proper setting, by a good photographer, etc. One of my New Year's resolutions is to keep a camera in my studio and never let anything out the door without a photo. It might not look pretty, but at least I'll have some kind of record. I saw that baby walker/farthingale, and it was awesome. A tiny elizabethan lady, scooting across the hall as she were on wheels..Oh! she is! Margo Anderson "One Tough Costumer" _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 19:25:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA22655 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:25:27 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA10605; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:38:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA15508 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:31:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from gerbil.slip.net (gerbil.slip.net [207.171.193.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA15497 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:31:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from root by gerbil.slip.net with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 101JUe-0007Vx-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:21:36 -0800 Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by falcon.net. (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA20082 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:36:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA05169; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:38:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA13844 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:32:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA13805 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:32:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p11.directcon.net [206.170.184.60]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA16497 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:28:24 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:28:24 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901151628.IAA16497@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: RE: Keeping Legs Warm in "The Old Days!" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson -Poster: Margo Anderson I'd like >to hear from those who remember the 20's-40's and hear how >they dealt with the chill! I have pictures of my father's sister in the 30's, in Brooklyn, all dressed up in wool coats with matching leggings. These were made of the same cloth as the coat, fitted to the leg, and came down over the shoe top and up higher than the coat hem. They buttoned up the sides, which must have been a tedious chore. These outfits were made for my aunt by her grandfather, a tailor, but I think it was the standard style for little girls. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 19:28:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA22668 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:28:44 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA10967; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:42:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA15949 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:35:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from gerbil.slip.net (gerbil.slip.net [207.171.193.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA15935 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:35:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from root by gerbil.slip.net with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 101JY9-0000FN-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:25:13 -0800 Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by falcon.net. (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA20805 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:46:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA06641; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:48:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA16291 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:42:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA16272 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:42:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p11.directcon.net [206.170.184.60]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA18752 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:38:11 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:38:11 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901151638.IAA18752@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Other new list: what was it again? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson -Poster: Margo Anderson At 04:52 PM 1/14/99 -0500, you wrote: > >-Poster: Danielle Nunn > >Greetings, > >>Last week or so, one of the 'regulars' posted information on a new list for >>historical women's issues - could you repost please-or send to me off-list? >>Thanks in advance. > >When was this posted? I really don't think I'm getting every message. :( I sent it on the 1st. I seem to have missed a few messages, too. Anybody know what could be going on? Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 19:29:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA22675 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:29:22 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA11061; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:42:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA16015 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:36:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA15993 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:36:00 -0700 (MST) From: Morghana@aol.com Received: from Morghana@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id DHFEa05309 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:34:41 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <7ca7cf31.369fdea1@aol.com> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:34:41 EST To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #50 (why all the duplicate posts????) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 38 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Morghana@aol.com Anyone else seeing this? Tons of duplicates! Can the list admin take a look, please? ~Morghana _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 19:29:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA22679 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:29:33 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA11173; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:42:44 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA16084 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:36:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from gerbil.slip.net (gerbil.slip.net [207.171.193.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA16071 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:36:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from root by gerbil.slip.net with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 101JYu-0000NO-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:26:00 -0800 Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by falcon.net. (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA21031 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:49:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA06399; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:47:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA15765 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:40:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA15733 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:40:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p11.directcon.net [206.170.184.60]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA18336 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:36:20 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:36:20 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901151636.IAA18336@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: RE: Vermont Country Store Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson -Poster: Margo Anderson >hair), large plastic 'tortoiseshell' hairpins, I just have to tell everyone: after years of searching for these hairpins in obscure outlets and paying big bucks for them, I've now found them at K-Mart! 2 for $2, with all the other hair stuff, packaged under the "Cosmopolitan" brand name. the same line includes hair sticks, combs, and other doodads, all in a good looking imitation tortoiseshell. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 19:34:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA22709 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:34:37 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA11788; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:47:49 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA16687 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:41:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from gerbil.slip.net (gerbil.slip.net [207.171.193.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA16670 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:41:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from root by gerbil.slip.net with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 101Jdl-00016t-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:31:01 -0800 Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by falcon.net. (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA22343 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:06:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA10056; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:10:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA23129 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:04:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from isis.netherworld.com (isis.Netherworld.COM [199.165.233.10]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA23050 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:03:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost by isis.netherworld.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA16517 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:55:31 -0700 (MST) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:55:30 -0700 (MST) From: Sylvia Rognstad To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: RE: h-costume-digest V4 #35 In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990114213624.00be7e30@pop.slip.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sylvia Rognstad -Poster: Sylvia Rognstad On Thu, 14 Jan 1999, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > Dylon dye. It is as easy to use as that dye-emulater Rit, but it is real dye. > > >I am making a new 16th century upper-middle class outfit for faire this > >year. I have found a brought a brocade that is white and I want to dye it > >burgandy... It is 100% cotton and takes dye well (I tried a swatch before I > >bought it) My one concern is that, with the intensity of the sun baking me > >all day it will most likely fade quickly with RIT. Is there any way to keep > >this from happening? Is there a finish I can put on to keep it from fading? > >Is there a better kind of dye than RIT that I can use that won't fade so > >easily? Anyone have any tips? Rit is real dye, of course, or it wouldnt dye fabric. The problem with Rit is that it has all different types of dye so that at least one of them will bind with whatever fabric you are using This means that the rest of it just washes down the drain, which I now realize is pretty wasteful. I used to run a theatrical costume shop and we bought Rit by the gallon. Now that I know more about dyeing, I would never do that. It's much more cost effective to buy smaller amounts of specific kinds of dyes. Sylvia. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 19:37:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA22730 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:37:02 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA12112; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:50:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA16997 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:43:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from gerbil.slip.net (gerbil.slip.net [207.171.193.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA16972 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:43:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from root by gerbil.slip.net with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 101Jg1-0001Ud-00 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:33:21 -0800 Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by falcon.net. (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA23065 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:13:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA11238; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:17:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA24445 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:11:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA24384 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:10:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.217.218.23] (ell82.acadia.net [205.217.218.66]) by p2.acadia.net (8.8.5/8.8.6) with SMTP id MAA20416 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:10:37 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:10:40 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: gloves in paintings Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) <> Yes, and keep in mind that whatever seams in the gloves might have been painted in may also have been faded/removed entirely by cleaning the painting in recent years. Deborah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 19:38:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA22737 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:38:05 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA12225; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:50:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA17079 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:44:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from gerbil.slip.net (gerbil.slip.net [207.171.193.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA17067 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:44:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from root by gerbil.slip.net with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 101Jgg-0001aV-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:34:02 -0800 Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by falcon.net. (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA23234 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:15:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA03841; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:29:49 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA11924 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:23:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA11898 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:23:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from 168.191.22.96 (sdn-ar-002dcwashP318.dialsprint.net [168.191.22.96]) by goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA28905 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:23:32 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <369F28FA.D8BC0DD8@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 11:40:01 +0000 From: margo king X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Textile Museum X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <199901141900.MAA01480@indra.com> <369F66F2.BBF057A1@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: margo king -Poster: margo king Textile Museum - 2320 S Street, Washington, DC 20008 - (202-667-0441) - Founded in 1925 with the collection of George Hewitt-Myers, museum houses over 10,000 woven pieces of artistic and archaeological significance - museum is small, they can only display a fraction of their treasures. World's finest collecion of Peruin weavings. Library divided into fine arts, decorative arts, techniques, costumes, and textile processes (all organized by nationality!) Library open to public, gift shop has wide variety of books on textile work. They also have a newsletter. I have found the staff very good to work with, and helpful! Hopes this helps those that were wondering about the museum - a must see if you are visitingWashington. Margo King _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 19:38:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA22741 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:38:46 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA12418; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:51:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA17244 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:45:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from gerbil.slip.net (gerbil.slip.net [207.171.193.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA17203 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:45:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from root by gerbil.slip.net with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 101JhP-0001hs-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:34:47 -0800 Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by falcon.net. (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA23490 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:17:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA12072; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:21:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA21645 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:58:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from public.ndh.com (public.ndh.net [194.97.97.21]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA21618 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:58:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from Andrea (port1067.koeln.ndh.net [195.227.37.67]) by public.ndh.com (8.8.7/8.8.0) with ESMTP id RAA28973 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:58:34 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <3695DCEC.38A00EC3@ndh.net> Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 11:24:53 +0100 From: Andrea Clef X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [de] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: book publication X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------56007D64D6AF7893DA2613F7" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Andrea Clef -Poster: Andrea Clef --------------56007D64D6AF7893DA2613F7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Are the patterns taken from extant garments, or are they the author's own > guesses? > > I would consider ordering the book if the patterns are from real garments. > > --Robin > Surviving garments of this medieval period are very rare, it is said in the book that they reconstructed the stitches from these but it is not mentioned whether they also copied the patterns from real garments. The most used method of medieval pattern reconstruction is looking at stone figures or paintings that have survived. So I can`t say for sure where the patterns originate from. > The bad news is that they don't have this book > Ok, so if somebody would like to get this book, please tell me. But I`m not sure about the shipping costs to the States yet, that also depends on if you choose surface or air mail. You could then send me the money ($26 + shipping) either in dollar notes in a letter (ok, could be risky) or wire it to my bank account. I`ve made bad experiences with checks, so that`s not the best method. If you`re interested, please contact me by personal e-mail, thanks! Many greetings, Diana --------------56007D64D6AF7893DA2613F7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 

Are the patterns taken from extant garments, or are they the author's own
guesses?

I would consider ordering the book if the patterns are from real garments. 

--Robin
Surviving garments of this medieval period are very rare, it is said in the book that they
reconstructed the stitches from these but it is not mentioned whether they also
copied the patterns from real garments.
The most used method of medieval pattern reconstruction is looking at stone figures
or paintings that have survived.
So I can`t say for sure where the patterns originate from.
  
The bad news is that they don't have this book
Ok, so if somebody would like to get this book, please tell me.
But I`m not sure about the shipping costs to the States yet, that also depends on
if you choose surface or air mail.
You could then send me the money ($26 + shipping) either in dollar notes in a letter
(ok, could be risky) or wire it to my bank account.
I`ve made bad experiences with checks, so that`s not the best method.
If you`re interested, please contact me by personal e-mail, thanks!

Many greetings,
Diana
  --------------56007D64D6AF7893DA2613F7-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 19:39:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA22752 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:39:37 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA12588; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:52:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA17363 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:46:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from gerbil.slip.net (gerbil.slip.net [207.171.193.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA17349 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:46:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from root by gerbil.slip.net with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 101JiW-0001tG-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:35:56 -0800 Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by falcon.net. (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA23781 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:20:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA12524; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:24:45 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA25934 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:18:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from bigpapa.nothinbut.net (root@bigpapa.nothinbut.net [207.44.32.11]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA25925 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:18:32 -0700 (MST) From: pame@nothinbut.net Received: from bigpapa.nothinbut.net (mtl-ct1-06.nothinbut.net [207.44.46.16]) by bigpapa.nothinbut.net (8.8.8/8.8.8/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id MAA13200 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:18:31 -0500 Message-Id: <199901151718.MAA13200@bigpapa.nothinbut.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:16:10 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays Priority: normal References: <199901111101.GAA24064@bigpapa.nothinbut.net> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: pame@nothinbut.net -Poster: pame@nothinbut.net > -Poster: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> > > > For the record: How old is she now? > My oldest daughter is fifteen. She is 6 ft. tall and weighs around 119 lbs. Will she thicken up as she ages-my guess would be yes.. pame _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 19:52:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA22831 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:52:27 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA14046; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:06:49 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA19468 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:00:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailserver1.picknowl.com.au (mailserver1.picknowl.com.au [203.24.77.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id SAA19442 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:00:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from dialin160.picknowl.com.au (dialin160.picknowl.com.au [203.24.76.160]) by mailserver1.picknowl.com.au (NTMail 3.03.0018/4c.aclk) with ESMTP id ma802476 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 11:29:07 +1030 Message-Id: <3.0.5.16.19990116113018.29bf490a@mail.picknowl.com.au> X-Sender: starkiller@mail.picknowl.com.au X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (16) Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 11:30:18 To: h-Costume@indra.com From: Lady Lisette Subject: H-COST: More on black dyes in period Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lady Lisette Just to add another element to the discussion of black sheep and black dyed clothing in period, here are two quotes from the book "Accounts from a 13th Century Baronial Household" by Margaret Labarge. The book is a collection of all the accounts of the lady of an English household and is a fascinating collection of various household goods and items. If you're interested I can dig out the publisher and date. Quote 1, page 133 "Ten ells of black serge for only 17s were bought for Richard De Montforte before his departure for Bigorre-this quantity was sufficient for a robe and also trappings for his horse." Quote 2, page 144 "The articles (of the GUild of Cappers, March 1270) warned against the common fraud of dyeing an old cap black and reselling it, as new. This particular sharp practise was oon detected as the colour ran in the rain." Just to add to the discussion! Yours Lydie. ___________________________________ Sharpei carpe diem. (Seize the wrinkle dog now!) http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/5459/cover.htm (Cover page to all my pages, including all my historical costume ones, of which there are several!) starkiller@picknowl.com.au _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 20:12:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA22933 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 20:12:11 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA16081; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:26:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA21717 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:20:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from centum.utulsa.edu (centum.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.199]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id SAA21695 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:20:05 -0700 (MST) Received: by centum.utulsa.edu for H-COSTUME@INDRA.COM; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:22:14 -0600 Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:22:14 -0600 From: "I. Marc Carlson" To: H-COSTUME@indra.com Message-Id: <990115192214.74072@centum.utulsa.edu> Subject: H-COST: Re: H-Cost: Your websites Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "I. Marc Carlson" > >I believe that many of you have got own websites that deal with our >favorite topic historical costuming!... http://www.geocities.com/athens/parthenon/5923 http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/carlson/SHOEHOME.HTM Marc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 20:42:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA23112 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 20:42:35 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA19396; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:57:04 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA24820 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:50:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [207.172.3.234]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA24815 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:50:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from clough (207-172-56-110.s110.tnt12.ann.erols.com [207.172.56.110]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA15862 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 20:50:34 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 20:50:34 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199901160150.UAA15862@smtp1.erols.com> X-Sender: clough@pop.erols.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda and Larry Clough Subject: H-COST: Plumes Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Brenda and Larry Clough For this Musketeer stunt, I'm going to buy quite a few ostrich plumes. Now, the question: How do I curl a feather? Brenda _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 20:49:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA23145 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 20:49:17 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA20609; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:03:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA25495 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:57:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA25490 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:57:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from sue.computercrafters.com (pm3frd1-68-73.intrepid.net [206.102.68.73]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA19658 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 20:57:16 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990115210732.008a24e0@intrepid.net> X-Sender: sshatto@intrepid.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 21:07:32 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Sue Shatto Subject: Re: H-COST: Plumes In-Reply-To: <199901160150.UAA15862@smtp1.erols.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sue Shatto Brenda, Just take the feather between your thumb and a butter knife and pull through just as if you were curling ribbon. At 08:50 PM 1/15/99 -0500, you wrote: > >-Poster: Brenda and Larry Clough > >For this Musketeer stunt, I'm going to buy quite a few ostrich plumes. Now, >the question: How do I curl a feather? > >Brenda > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > Cordially, Sue Shatto Sue@VictorianMillinery.com http://www.VictorianMillinery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 22:28:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA23709 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 22:28:56 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA29913; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 20:43:21 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA03774 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 20:36:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.netwiz.net (Mail.NetWiz.Net [208.136.106.6]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA03763 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 20:36:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from slave (BayArea56k432.NetWiz.Net [208.164.208.32]) by mail.netwiz.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id TAA09866 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:36:43 -0800 Message-ID: <36A00852.68CC@netwiz.net> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:32:34 -0800 From: Susan Fatemi X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: small town in Calif. References: <199901152208.OAA12776@zeus.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Susan Fatemi Margo Anderson wrote: > > -Poster: Margo Anderson > > At 09:21 AM 1/15/99 -0800, you wrote: > > > >-Poster: Susan Fatemi > > > > >(this was N.E. California, if anyone thinks it doesn't snow > >here. A horrible little hick town, > > Really? Me too! What town was it? > > Margo > Susanville. County seat of Lassen Co. 85 miles NW of Reno. Backdoor of hell. It's been over 30 years since I was there and I still hate it! Susan -- Oh Noh! Kimonos! susanf@netwiz.net http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 16 00:26:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA24951 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 00:26:41 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA10808; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 22:41:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA13336 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 22:34:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA13321 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 22:34:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p29.directcon.net [206.170.184.78]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA08155 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 21:30:10 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 21:30:10 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901160530.VAA08155@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: small town in Calif. Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson >> >(this was N.E. California, if anyone thinks it doesn't snow >> >here. A horrible little hick town, >> >> Really? Me too! What town was it? >> >> Margo >> >Susanville Ooh, I've been to Susanville. You're right, it makes my hick home town (Placerville) look cosmopolitan. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 16 01:17:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA25464 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 01:17:55 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA14015; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 23:31:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA16770 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 23:24:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from komarr.local.thibault.org (mg134-121.ricochet.net [204.179.134.121]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA16764 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 23:24:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from ricochet.net (athene.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.14]) by komarr.local.thibault.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA12170 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 22:28:20 -0800 Message-ID: <36A0319F.D2A380B3@ricochet.net> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 22:30:07 -0800 From: Cynthia Virtue Organization: Virtue Ventures http://www.virtue.to X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: More on black dyes in period References: <3.0.5.16.19990116113018.29bf490a@mail.picknowl.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Cynthia Virtue Yes, please tell us more about this household account book! I need to start finding copies of this sort of thing, for more edification. > Sharpei carpe diem. > (Seize the wrinkle dog now!) Oh, my, yes! cv =-=-=-=-= "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet LXXXI "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia Virtue _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 16 09:24:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA00979 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 09:24:18 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA02244; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 07:39:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA09246 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 07:32:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA09239 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 07:32:18 -0700 (MST) From: Appin1@aol.com Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id IETBa04794 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 09:31:30 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4aea8924.36a0a2c2@aol.com> Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 09:31:30 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: re:undergarments Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 230 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Appin1@aol.com You can mail order silk underwear, both men's and women's, from Wintersilks, 2700 Laura Lane, P.O. Box 620130, Middleton, W! 53562. Phone number: 1-800-648-7455. Customer service phone number: 1-800-621-3229, 7 AM-7PM, Central Standard Time, Mon-Sat, 11AM-5PM, CST Sunday. Major Credit cards accepted. They also carry outer clothings too. I swear by their sock liners and glove liners. Standard disclaimer, but a satisfied customer. Kathleen Norvell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 16 09:26:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA00997 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 09:26:35 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA02397; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 07:42:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA09363 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 07:34:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.19]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA09358 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 07:34:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.23.254 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 06:34:17 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: H-COST: Medieval Source Mentions Black Wool Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 09:37:20 -0500 Message-ID: <000401be415d$e9d0ece0$fe17ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19990114192924.085f31ca@mail2.quiknet.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" In the year 1186, Giraldus of Cambridge, a scholar-monk, wrote about the Irish in *Topographica Hibernica,* "They wear their woolen clothes mostly black, because the sheep in Ireland are in general of that colour; the dress itself is of a barbarous fashion . . . ." This quoted in the Countess of Wilton's *The Book of Costume* in 1846, annotated and republished by R. L. Shep, ISBN 0-914046-04-7. This book is a wonderful source, by the way, of many historic things, including European and Asian folk costume. I find her to be an excellent scholar, with fabulous access to period accounts, and a good ability to discern between popular conception and what actually was. Her work has the benefit of being 150 years closer to her time periods on than modern authors, so much of the understanding of things was not yet lost. On the other hand, she mentions underclothes not at all, as one might expect of a Lady. . . From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 16 09:51:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA01139 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 09:51:42 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA03717; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 08:07:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA10714 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 07:59:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.18]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA10709 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 07:59:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.23.116 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 06:59:21 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Commode Question Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 10:01:14 -0500 Message-ID: <000001be4161$6862ef60$7417ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <000101be40d9$eb01d7c0$43ab30cf@malruck> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" The high commode went out of fashion abruptly somewhere between 1711 and 1713, sorry I can't remember more exactly. What is the Williamsburg Tercentenary? Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Joseph & Christine Sent: Friday, January 15, 1999 5:53 PM To: Historic Costume Mailing List; DC Costume Mailing List Subject: H-COST: Commode Question -Poster: "Joseph & Christine" I have a question on the head dress commonly known as the "commode," "fontage" or "tower," ca. late 17th C. In James Laver's "Costume & Fashion" is the following statement: "Louis XIV had grown tired of it by 1699 and expressed his disapproval, but it was the appearance at Court of an Englishwoman, Lady Sandwich, 'avec une petite coiffure basse,' which really changed the mode." Later, "We find the Mercure Galant for November 1699 remarking that the old style of high coiffure was beginning to appear ridiculous." My question is, what is the "petite coiffure basse" worn by Lady Sandwich, and how appropriate is it really to appear the the high headdress that "was beginning to appear ridiculous" for the Williamsburg tercentenary? Thank you, Christine L. Malson-Ruckman ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 16 10:28:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA01325 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 10:28:43 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA06567; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 08:44:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA13271 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 08:36:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.30]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA13266 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 08:36:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.23.39 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 07:36:14 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: fort ross/ ethnic Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 10:38:28 -0500 Message-ID: <000101be4166$925a1780$7417ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <369FA4D3.352F@netwiz.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Susan, do you know where the Russian immigrants to California originated from? That would help. The R.L. Shep republication by the Countess of Wilton, The Book of Costume, originally published in 1846 has a whole chapter on Russian costume of the period, but as it was diverse and multi-ethnic, she includes Russian, Mordvine,Kalmuk Tartar, Woltiak, Kamtschatkian, Kasan, Tscherask, Muscovite (no picture, just a description), and a number of others. Let me know if there's something specific you need me to look up. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Susan Fatemi Sent: Friday, January 15, 1999 3:28 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: fort ross/ ethnic -Poster: Susan Fatemi Some time ago there was a thread about what Russian women settlers at Fort Ross (Calif.) might have worn. I wasn't interested at the time, but my boss's wife and daughter want to "dress up" to go to some event there and he's asked if I could find any info. on it. I lent him my Tilke book (explaining how much it would cost to replace it!) But if anyone has any info. specific to Fort Ross, I'd sure appreciate it. (I wallowed around in the archives, but couldn't find what I wanted, sorry) BTW, that Tilke book, Patterns and costume of design(?) 1990 ed. is one of my top 5 ethnic/Asian costuming books. the others would be the Topkapi Textiles book (which I got for what I consider a perfectly reasonable price) The Mongol Costumes, and the 5000 years of Chinese costume (all previously mentioned in this thread) No. 5 would probably be Wada's Shibori book, or one of the other umpteen Japanese costume/textile books. Another good book, which I don't own, is by Jennifer Scarce; Women's costume from the Near East (something like that) It's mostly Turkish and she includes diagrams of real garments. I photocopied a *lot* of it. Haven't seen anything good on Moghul costumes. has anyone else?? Susan F. -- Oh Noh! Kimonos! susanf@netwiz.net http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 16 10:44:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA01420 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 10:44:32 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA07791; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 09:00:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA14547 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 08:52:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA14539 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 08:52:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip222.an1-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.12.222]) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA03566 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 07:52:37 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36A0A868.1EBB130F@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 10:55:37 -0400 From: Laurel Wilson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03C-NSCP (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: More on black dyes in period References: <3.0.5.16.19990116113018.29bf490a@mail.picknowl.com.au> <36A0319F.D2A380B3@ricochet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Laurel Wilson > -Poster: Cynthia Virtue > > Yes, please tell us more about this household account book! Ditto. Lauri _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 16 10:54:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA01476 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 10:54:27 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA08700; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 09:09:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA15235 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 09:02:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.30]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA15230 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 09:02:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.23.106 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 08:01:55 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: re:undergarments Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 11:04:56 -0500 Message-ID: <000301be416a$28d2e040$7417ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990114214048.00be4400@pop.slip.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" The nylon net on mine was always attached to a smooth, soft-to-the-skin nylon taffeta base, so I never had any discomfort from my frothy petticoats. We disn't have a lot of clothes in those days, but my mother was a real stickler for comfort and quality. To afford taste like that, everything she didn't make for us, she bought "on sale." These petticoats came from the local high-end children's specialty shop during their twice yearly sale. I agree, unlined nylon net would be a torture! Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Carolyn Kayta Barrows Sent: Friday, January 15, 1999 12:42 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: H-COST: re:undergarments -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >When I was in elementary school in the 1950's I wouldn't be >caught dead without my frothy nylon tafetta and lace slip >petticoats to make my skirts stand out. It was a great >pleasure to buy two more each year and to wear them, as they >were in and of themselves so pretty and not the least bit of >trouble. Nasty things to sit on. I remember these, and nylon net marks on my legs. Itchy scratchy and no fun. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 16 13:06:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA02289 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 13:06:06 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA19573; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 11:21:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA26160 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 11:13:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.30]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA26154 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 11:13:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.34.27 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 10:12:59 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Cuff puzzle in painting Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 13:16:03 -0500 Message-ID: <000401be417c$77f13840$7417ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990114172449.00924a10@mail.interlog.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" The cuff detail often appears on a man's jacket (sleeved waistcoat) or a woman's dress, such as in these Italian paintings. Could it be that his white blousey shirt is decorative (not a smock), and that he is wearing a waistcoat (and presumably a hidden undersmock) beneath it? In my Web version of the painting, the cuff is decidedly more of a golden burnt sienna color than his hand, which is the same color as his face. Gloves are most often seen with one on, and one off and held in the hand. This could indicate a golden brown satin cuff of a sleeved waistcoat. See other similar details on cuffs in other paintings: http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/m/moroni/taylor.jpg Double tabs on fine tailor's waistcoat. http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/m/moroni/contarin.jpg Single tabs on red cardinal's(?) robe. http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/v/veronese/lady.jpg Single tabs on brown velvet dress. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Danielle Nunn Sent: Thursday, January 14, 1999 5:25 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Cuff puzzle in painting -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >Here's another link: (the one Teddy provided doesn't work from my server) >http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/m/mabuse/baudouin.jpg I had the same problem. >>Is this man wearing another, long sleeved, garment *under* that >>beautiful shirt, the only part visible being the picadils/tabs at >>the wrist?? Nope, I think they are gloves. If you look at the left side of his index finger on his right hand I see a faint line which *could* be a seam. I also think that the wrinkles shown are in the wrong place for a bare hand. >The picadilled cuffs look very leathery, especially when you consider >the width between snips, there's no evident fraying, and the colour - a >sort of light rose-orange - is also suggestive. I would have to agree with this as well. Also the Spanish were known for making incredibly fine leather gloves. There are records of a Spanish noble woman (can't remember who) who bought her gloves a gross at a time! This suggests to me that they were so fine that they would wear out quickly - these gloves seem to me, to be of that sort. >Or is it possible that this fabric has been sewn on beneath as a guard to >protect the delicately pleated cuffs? Well I've never seen any evidence for something like that. I don't understand what the guards would be sewn to? >He's wearing three garments for certain - the creamy brocade robe, the >slashed black doublet, the very full and decorated shirt. Is it possible >that he is also wearing a leather underdoublet and perhaps an undershirt >beneath that, for comfort? In my understanding of 16th century layering is: he *could* have worn another shirt under that one but not a doublet or jerkin. Isn't his outfit just gorgeous though! I think it's interesting that his sleeves, doublet/jerkin, and hosen are all a very dark blue or a very blue black. Cheers, Danielle ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 16 13:38:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA02489 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 13:38:32 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA23049; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 11:54:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA29268 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 11:46:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.19]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA29261 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 11:46:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.34.27 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 10:46:07 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: 'baby walker' Elizabethan Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 13:50:05 -0500 Message-ID: <000d01be4181$190fb900$7417ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990114113105.00bc3830@pop.slip.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" The leading strings may have been useful, atavistic sleeves. The wealthy medieval Persians had sleeves to the ground, with openings at the point where they met the body and also (or alternatively ) part way down the sleeve to put the arms or hands through, respectively. If the sleeves were not used, they hung from the shoulders down to the ground. Max Tilke's on-line book shows more modern versions of these ancient costumes. I've seen at least one painting of a little boy in Italian(?) dress with his sleeves hanging from his shoulders and buttoned together (using the wrist closure buttons) behind him to keep them out of his way. They were real sleeves, which he would have put on to keep warm if he were outdoors. Sort of like people tie the belt of their raincoat behind them today, to keep it handy but out of the way. I can easily see these sleeves, atavistic and otherwise, used to keep squirmy people securely in their high chairs and out of harm's way. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Carolyn Kayta Barrows Sent: Thursday, January 14, 1999 2:35 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 'baby walker' Elizabethan -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >None of the walkers I've seen from the 14th century through at least >the 16th Century would prevent the child's reach or keep them from >tipping or going through doorways. Me neither. They have square bases, like mine had under the round plastic bits. Some look like modern old-people walkers, and some look like mine with a seat in the middle. >One of the most common things which maimed and killed children of >that time is falling into the fire. > >Leading strings attached to the backs of the doublet or shoulders of >the tunic is something you also see with the pre16th century. This is >so charming (and very costume oriented;) and it works. I think the leading strings are the method of tying a baby to your own apron strings. It gives a toddler about 6' of 'freedom' in any direction, and gives Mom a handle. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 16 13:42:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA02536 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 13:42:07 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA23398; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 11:57:57 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA29598 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 11:50:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (root@jefferson.patriot.net [206.151.9.249]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA29590 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 11:50:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from [206.29.51.97] (th-2-45.patriot.net [206.29.51.97]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA16566 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 13:45:45 -0500 Message-Id: <199901161845.NAA16566@jefferson.patriot.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: Lecture on 1790s Date: Sat, 16 Jan 99 13:49:40 -0500 x-sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Deb Rand wrote, >I would love to attend the Gadsby's Tavern lecture but unfortunately cannot. >Is there some way I could receive/purchase any literature/info. packet that >may be part of the lecture? Please? I think this is the second request about the lecture. Alden O'Brien, the curator who is giving the lecture, is not on the h-costume list. I would suggest contacting her directly . Her address was included in the original message! -Carol Kocian _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 16 14:13:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA02819 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 14:13:06 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA26147; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 12:28:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA02112 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 12:21:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (root@jefferson.patriot.net [206.151.9.249]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA02105 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 12:21:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from [206.29.51.55] (th-2-3.patriot.net [206.29.51.55]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA18940 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 14:16:42 -0500 Message-Id: <199901161916.OAA18940@jefferson.patriot.net> Subject: H-COST: Rit Date: Sat, 16 Jan 99 14:20:37 -0500 x-sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sylvia wrote, >Rit is real dye, of course, or it wouldnt dye fabric. The problem with >Rit is that it has all different types of dye so that at least one of them >will bind with whatever fabric you are using This means that the rest of >it just washes down the drain, which I now realize is pretty wasteful. I use Rit to dye small quanties of yarn or trim. I knew about it being a combination dye. If I'm dyeing a cellulose fiber, I also throw in a protien fiber so half the dye is not wasted. -Carol Kocian _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 16 15:51:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03405 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 15:51:50 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA04413; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 14:07:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA09393 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 13:59:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.19]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA09385 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 13:59:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.23.130 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 12:58:44 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: H-COST: Sleeves of Childhood, Was Elizabethan walker Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 16:02:01 -0500 Message-ID: <001101be4193$a0f41020$7417ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Here is an image of a Turkish caftan with Persian style sleeves, which I suggested might be the original source for the "sleeves of childhood," or "leading strings." http://ps.theatre.tulane.edu/Period.Styles/Costumes/text/Ita lian.Renaissance/CJ38.html In this photograph, the sleeves are draped to the front of the mannequin, so you can't see the openings for the hands and arms. But in real life, they were worn draped to the back when not in use. Hope H. Dunlap _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 16 16:26:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA03580 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 16:26:39 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA07820; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 14:42:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA12509 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 14:34:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from mb06.swip.net (mb06.swip.net [193.12.122.210]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA12504 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 14:34:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from [130.244.200.177] (dialup200-3-49.swipnet.se [130.244.200.177]) by mb06.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA15004 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 22:34:41 +0100 (MET) X-Sender: md21199@dredd.swip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36A01796.40C8F3B7@bellsouth.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 20:53:27 +0100 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Ninni M Pettersson Subject: H-COST: Doll clothes (was: Double messages?) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Ninni M Pettersson At 05.37 +0100 99-01-16, Renata McAdams wrote: >-Poster: Renata McAdams > >Hi, I am new to this list and have thoroughly enjoyed all the wonderful info >re: costuming. One of my main interests is making historically correct >dolls. Welcome to the list! I think there are several of us who dabbles in doll-making now and then. Myself I'm hard at work (yes everybody, I know I said she would be ready by Christmas, but I've been terribly delayed :-) on the finishing touches on my first doll: a young girl with a compleat and (as far as I can make it) correct c.1545 outfit. And this spring I'm tentatively thinking on starting on one with mid-19th century clothes - an elderly lady this time. By 'historically correct dolls' do you mean that they look like a doll would have done in, for example, the 18th century, or do you mean that they have historically correct clothes? Personally it's the clothes I'm interested in, the doll is mostly just something to put them on :-) /Ninni Pettersson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 16 16:45:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA03697 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 16:45:25 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA09987; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 15:01:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA14033 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 14:53:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA14002 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 14:53:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.183] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 101deS-0001G2-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 13:53:04 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990116071257.00a2f710@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19990116071257.00a2f710@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 07:14:52 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Just an Introduction In-Reply-To: <19990115154618.9966.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows karrissa david writes, in a message sent 10:46 AM 1/15/99 -0500: > >-Poster: "karrissa david" > >Hello All, > >My name is Karrissa David. I have been searching for this list serve >for a while. I am glad I have found it. (snip) >I have found tons of patterns and books on sillouetts. However, I would >love to get information on fabric used as well as popular colors. > >I hope to get lots of information. I look forward to hearing from you. You'll get an earful of all of the above here. We're a pretty friendly group, even when we are in the middle of a heavy discussion. Welcome aboard - the more the merrier! Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 16 16:45:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA03701 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 16:45:35 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA09999; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 15:01:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA14032 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 14:53:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA14008 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 14:53:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.183] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 101deT-0001G2-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 13:53:05 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990116072333.00a46dc0@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19990116072333.00a46dc0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 07:29:10 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: H-COST: School uniform skirts In-Reply-To: References: <369F7904.16DE@netwiz.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >Why just the 60's??? I went to gradeschool in the 80's!.. and It wasn't >until 1987 or so that the schoolboard passed a allowance for girls to wear >pants. The thing that annoyed us girls the most was that they would not >allow us to huddle together in little groups, or be anywhere within 5 feet >from the building, and it's warmer nooks, and cranies. That was the rule. >and All we could wear was our little plaid catholic girl uniforms. They >used to have some old ones for sale that you could buy from the school, >and those were really nice wool with little secret pockets to put your >hands... But since the Polyester revolution... alas, they are no more. I was appalled when I saw my kid's school uniform for Middle School just a few years ago. (This is on top of being appalled that she had to wear a uniform in public school.) The plaid polyester skirt cost $30 and had its pleats set with hot glue! Then when I tried to re-hem it my hands broke out in allergic spots from whatever they had treated the fabric with. (fume fume fume - I had voted against school uniforms...) Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 16 16:45:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA03705 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 16:45:41 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA09998; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 15:01:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA14035 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 14:53:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA14018 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 14:53:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.183] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 101deV-0001G2-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 13:53:07 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990116073010.00c0a1a0@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19990116073010.00c0a1a0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 07:31:42 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: fort ross/ ethnic In-Reply-To: <369FA4D3.352F@netwiz.net> References: <199901141553.IAA17426@indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Have you tried contacting Fort Ross directly? Last time I was there they put me in touch with the reenactors who 'play' there. Those folks knew what they themselves were wearing. >Some time ago there was a thread about what Russian women >settlers at Fort Ross (Calif.) might have worn. I wasn't >interested at the time, but my boss's wife and daughter >want to "dress up" to go to some event there and he's >asked if I could find any info. on it. > I lent him my Tilke book (explaining how much it would >cost to replace it!) But if anyone has any info. >specific to Fort Ross, I'd sure appreciate it. >(I wallowed around in the archives, but couldn't find >what I wanted, sorry) Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 16 17:26:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA03920 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 17:26:06 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA14662; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 15:42:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA17222 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 15:34:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from NIH2WAAE (smtp5.site1.csi.com [149.174.183.74]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA17215 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 15:34:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by csi.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 17:33:35 -0500 Received: from 753001610 (atl-qbu-zpn-vty29.as.wcom.net [209.154.88.29]) by hil-img-10.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/IMS-1.6) with SMTP id RAA22488 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 17:33:13 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000a01be41a0$4bd3d820$1d589ad1@753001610> From: "Matt Dragonfly Drury" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: re:undergarments Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 17:33:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Matt Dragonfly Drury" >You can mail order silk underwear, both men's and women's, from Wintersilks, Satisfied customer as well. Our order was lost days before we were going up to DC from Orlando (brr), and they shipped a replacement with enough time for us to enjoy them. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 16 18:46:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA04316 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 18:46:26 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA20947; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 17:02:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA23843 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 16:54:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.26]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA23835 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 16:54:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.31.168 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 15:53:43 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: fort ross/ ethnic Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 18:56:16 -0500 Message-ID: <000001be41ac$111dd260$a81fffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990116073010.00c0a1a0@pop.slip.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" There is a costume book for mid-19th Century California and the far West, which I personally have not seen, so I don't know if it includes Russian immigrant costume of the type you want. But it is by Rickman, David W. and called, Costume Manual: Guide to Clothing Worn in California and Far West ca. 1845. nd. Sutter's Fort. detailed costume reconstruction: Euro & Native American, Californio, 121 Costume plates b/w and color, lg. 4to. notebook bound 202p. New/used costume and textile bookseller Fred Struthers lists it as "new or noteworthy" and sells it for $26. He's on-line at www.mcn.org/e/fsbks and e-mail at fsbks@mcn.org in Ft. Bragg, California. If in doubt, e-mail him about whether it applies to Fort Ross, includes Russian, and go from there. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Carolyn Kayta Barrows Sent: Saturday, January 16, 1999 10:32 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: fort ross/ ethnic -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Have you tried contacting Fort Ross directly? Last time I was there they put me in touch with the reenactors who 'play' there. Those folks knew what they themselves were wearing. >Some time ago there was a thread about what Russian women >settlers at Fort Ross (Calif.) might have worn. I wasn't >interested at the time, but my boss's wife and daughter >want to "dress up" to go to some event there and he's >asked if I could find any info. on it. > I lent him my Tilke book (explaining how much it would >cost to replace it!) But if anyone has any info. >specific to Fort Ross, I'd sure appreciate it. >(I wallowed around in the archives, but couldn't find >what I wanted, sorry) Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 16 20:03:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA04697 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 20:03:43 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA27616; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 18:17:34 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA00116 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 18:09:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id SAA00109 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 18:09:28 -0700 (MST) Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 18:09:28 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 14617 invoked from network); 17 Jan 1999 01:04:55 -0000 Received: from 26.240.3-5.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (207.183.240.26) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 17 Jan 1999 01:04:55 -0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19990116170905.26af0d5e@mail2.quiknet.com> X-Sender: joanj@mail2.quiknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: RE: H-COST: fort ross/ ethnic Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Joan M Jurancich At 06:56 PM 01/16/1999 -0500, Hope H. Dunlap wrote: > >-Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" > >There is a costume book for mid-19th Century California and >the far West, which I personally have not seen, so I don't >know if it includes Russian immigrant costume of the type >you want. > >But it is by Rickman, David W. and called, Costume Manual: >Guide to Clothing Worn in California and Far West ca. 1845. >nd. Sutter's Fort. detailed costume reconstruction: Euro & >Native American, Californio, 121 Costume plates b/w and >color, lg. 4to. notebook bound 202p. > >New/used costume and textile bookseller Fred Struthers lists >it as "new or noteworthy" and sells it for $26. He's >on-line at www.mcn.org/e/fsbks and e-mail at fsbks@mcn.org >in Ft. Bragg, California. If in doubt, e-mail him about >whether it applies to Fort Ross, includes Russian, and go >from there. > >Hope H. Dunlap [snip] This handbook is three-hole-punched and ready to be put in a 3-ring binder. While it is *not* a definitive source, it is not a bad starting place; though we have been talking about needing an updated edition, especially for some of the women's sections. It is primarily designed for Sutter's Fort. I can't remember offhand whether or not "Russian" clothing Fort Ross is covered. By the time Sutter's Fort was founded (1839), the Russians were looking to get out of California. I do know that the Sutter's Fort Trade Store still has lots of copies. You can call the store any day the Fort is open between 10am and 4:30pm to talk to a live body (though we have had a few days lately when *everyone* is out sick), or call at other times to leave a message. The telephone number is 916-442-4966. Or you could send an email to the store manager, Dori Cavala, at dcavala@mother.com. Can you tell I'm a Sutter's Fort docent? Joan Jurancich Sutter's Fort Costume Committee Sacramento, CA _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 16 20:19:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA04781 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 20:19:29 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA28653; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 18:35:44 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA01379 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 18:27:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.rdu.bellsouth.net (mail.rdu.bellsouth.net [205.152.32.21]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA01372 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 18:27:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from bellsouth.net (host-209-214-162-183.rdu.bellsouth.net [209.214.162.183]) by mail.rdu.bellsouth.net (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA23572 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 20:27:36 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36A13C96.732224A0@bellsouth.net> Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 20:27:51 -0500 From: Renata McAdams X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-bls40 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Doll clothes References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Renata McAdams Thanks for the welcome Ninni! Of course I want the dolls to be as beautiful as possible and look like the people of the country and era, I am recreating, but that is for another list . Here, I hope to learn about fabric, style, technique, etc. Being a first-generation Italian-American, I naturally gravitate to most things Italian. I love the dress of Ancient Rome, Greece, and the Etruscans....these people were all intermingled before and during the Roman Empire. I particularly love the dress of the Italian Renaissance. Big jump in periods, I know, but the clothing from these periods (to me)was so alive, flowing and vibrant Ninni: I think it's great that you will be customing your "elderly lady" in Victorian garb. That was also a great period of style, in particular the mid-late Victorian era. I am very curious about the dress of the people of southern Italian, but can't seem to find any books, sources on that region of Italy. Most references are made to the northern part of Italy such as Tuscany, Florence and Venice. Does anyone have any suggestions? Renata McAdams Ninni M Pettersson wrote: > By 'historically correct dolls' do you mean that they look like a > doll would have done in, for example, the 18th century, or do you mean that > they have historically correct clothes? Personally it's the clothes I'm > interested in, the doll is mostly just something to put them on :-) > > /Ninni Pettersson > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 16 22:01:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA05445 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 22:01:42 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA07183; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 20:17:44 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA08515 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 20:09:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id UAA08483 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 20:08:55 -0700 (MST) Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 20:08:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 25004 invoked from network); 17 Jan 1999 03:04:30 -0000 Received: from 20.240.3-5.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (207.183.240.20) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 17 Jan 1999 03:04:30 -0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19990116190840.0927448c@mail2.quiknet.com> X-Sender: joanj@mail2.quiknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: H-COST: History of miser's purses Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Joan M Jurancich I have been knitting long purses (aka miser's purses) lately and have been wondering how long this style has been around. I know that they were popular for much of the 19th Century and at least the later part of the 18th. Has anyone ever run across references for this style (two-ended with a slit in the middle and two rings to keep things inside; made in fabric, thin leather, knitting, etc.) that pre-date the later half of the 18th Century? Joan Jurancich Sacramento, CA joanj@quiknet.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 16 22:03:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA05458 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 22:02:59 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA07365; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 20:19:19 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA08653 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 20:11:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from m5.sprynet.com (m5.sprynet.com [165.121.1.92]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA08646 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 20:11:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from default (hil-c52-004-vty177.as.wcom.net [206.175.118.177]) by m5.sprynet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA06776 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 19:11:07 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901170311.TAA06776@m5.sprynet.com> From: "Bob and TC Carstensen" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 22:09:07 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: H-COST: fort ross/ ethnic Priority: normal In-reply-to: <000001be41ac$111dd260$a81fffd0@default> References: <4.1.19990116073010.00c0a1a0@pop.slip.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01b) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Bob and TC Carstensen" On 16 Jan 99, at 18:56, Hope H. Dunlap wrote: > There is a costume book for mid-19th Century California and > the far West, which I personally have not seen, so I don't > know if it includes Russian immigrant costume of the type > you want. > > But it is by Rickman, David W. and called, Costume Manual: > Guide to Clothing Worn in California and Far West ca. 1845. > nd. Sutter's Fort. detailed costume reconstruction: Euro & > Native American, Californio, 121 Costume plates b/w and > color, lg. 4to. notebook bound 202p. Oh, dear - another book to put on my "To buy" list! While doing a search on the Bookfinder web site for this (alas, they don't have it), I came across another title that sounded like a possibility - Early California Costumes 1769 - 1850 by Margaret Gilbert MacKey and Louis Pinkney Sooy. Not having seen the book, I likewise can't say if it covers Russian immigrant clothing. TC Carstensen _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 16 22:46:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA05703 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 22:46:47 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA11118; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 21:03:11 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA11738 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 20:55:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA11727 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 20:54:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p37.directcon.net [206.170.184.86]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA21418 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 19:50:26 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 19:50:26 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901170350.TAA21418@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: H-COST: H-Cost: Synthetic whalebone? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson About two years, ago, someone posted to this list about a new type of synthetic whalebone that was supposed to closely replicate the real thing. I believe it was made in Germany. Does anyone know anything about it? Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 16 22:52:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA05733 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 22:52:53 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA11693; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 21:09:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA12214 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 21:01:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA12207 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 21:01:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip223.denver9.co.pub-ip.psi.net [38.31.5.223]) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA12569 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 20:01:03 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36A16177.5FE30CF2@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 21:05:12 -0700 From: Mary Denise Smith Organization: Costume & Dressmaker Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: H-Cost: Synthetic whalebone? References: <199901170350.TAA21418@zeus.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Mary Denise Smith Hello Margo and List, I bought some and found it "remembered" its curve entirely too well. I think it is all polyester, is very white, feels nice and the cut ends (I had to use heavy wire cutters, as scissors just didn't do the job) softened and smoothed over very nicely in a candle flame or rubbed on the soleplate of an iron. It does come in a variety of weights, but this is the only one I tried. I have since given the remainders to another member of this list. Hope this helps, Mary Denise Smith _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 16 23:00:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA05782 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 23:00:06 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA12414; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 21:16:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA12721 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 21:08:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from m2.jersey.juno.com (m2.jersey.juno.com [209.67.34.60]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA12716 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 21:08:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (from kimberlykdobbs@juno.com) by m2.jersey.juno.com (queuemail) id DY5VHTKR; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 23:07:54 EST To: h-costume@indra.com, sewinghistoric@onelist.com, sewing@onelist.com Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 22:03:00 -0600 Subject: H-COST: Fw: [sewingbusinesses] Re: Digest Number 40 Message-ID: <19990116.220303.-169117.1.kimberlykdobbs@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-2,4-16,18,20-30,32,34,36,38-40,42-44,46-48,50,52,54,56-57,59-60,62-64,66-77 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: kimberlykdobbs@juno.com (Kimberly K Dobbs) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: kimberlykdobbs@juno.com (Kimberly K Dobbs) Hi, I received this on my list. I thought maybe someone on here could help her! Kimberly --------- Forwarded message ---------- From: MsMystic1@aol.com To: sewingbusinesses@onelist.com Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 21:18:52 EST Subject: [sewingbusinesses] Re: Digest Number 40 Message-ID: <92b64ca5.36a1488c@aol.com> From: MsMystic1@aol.com This was posted on aol sewing board, pattern search. Can any of you help her out? I thought maybe you could, since so many of you make wedding gowns. Her email is Ortmayer@aol.com. Carole Subject: helphelphelp Date: 1/16/1999 4:05 PM Eastern Standard Time From: Ortmayer Message-id: <19990116160506.21939.00002003@ng152.aol.com> I am not burned out (yet) but I am frantic. My future daughter-in-law is letting me make her wedding dress, which pleases me a lot since she can afford anything she wants. I ordered a pattern from Harper House, MM41, which we both liked since she will be 8 months pregnant when the wedding day arrives, and it is cut high under the bust with a full skirt. I ordered the pattern right after Thanksgiving, and it has not arrived. I can't phone them because their number gives you lots of other numbers to press and none of them get to a real person. There is one for leaving a message, but after half a dozen tries, no response. I used to be able to contact someone by email (harperh@epix.net) but the last three emails went unanswered. Shriek!! I have learned that Harper House is a clearing house for a number of other pattern companies, who provide the patterns that HH sells. The one that makes the pattern I want is called Period Patterns. I can't find an ad for them in Threads or any of my other sewing publications. Does anyone have any ideas? There is definitely a deadline - I have to take the dress in muslin to the San Juan Islands for the bride to try on the first of March, and the idea of designing a dress from a drawing for someone who can go to Paris to buy things leaves me all stomach-quivery. Needless to say, if someone has the pattern I will gladly pay $50 for it. I will also DEEPLY appreciate any hints on what to do now, barring going to Paris myself and getting Dior to make it. Jane, Escondido, CA ------------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 00:18:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA06848 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 00:18:20 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA18437; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 22:34:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA18000 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 22:26:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from rainey.blueneptune.com (root@rainey.blueneptune.com [209.133.45.253]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA17995 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 22:26:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from BlueNeptune.Com (ppp149.blueneptune.com [209.133.45.149]) by rainey.blueneptune.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA01333 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 21:26:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from BlackCat@BlueNeptune.Com) Message-ID: <36A1741F.60560482@BlueNeptune.Com> Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 21:24:47 -0800 From: "BlackCat =^..^=" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costuming Mailing List Subject: H-COST: Blackwork on coifs?? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "BlackCat =^..^=" Does anyone know if blackwork was done on early 16th century men's coifs? --~Chris _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 01:25:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA07425 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 01:24:58 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA23583; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 23:41:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA22036 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 23:33:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id XAA22030 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 23:33:02 -0700 (MST) Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 23:33:02 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 26257 invoked from network); 17 Jan 1999 06:28:36 -0000 Received: from 198.240.3-2.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (207.183.240.198) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 17 Jan 1999 06:28:36 -0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19990116223245.343fd44c@mail2.quiknet.com> X-Sender: joanj@mail2.quiknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: Re: H-COST: Blackwork on coifs?? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Joan M Jurancich Chris, I know that there are surviving examples of embroidered nightcaps from the *late* sixteenth and early *seventeen* centuries. I have never seen it suggested in any references I've looked at that blackwork (as we now define it) was done in England at the beginning of the 16th century. It seemed to become fashionable for cuffs and collars of men's shirts and women's shifts after Catherine of Aragon married Henry VIII. Given the detail with which some wills were written, or household inventories, such sources may be your best bet. All I can suggest is to keep looking, but don't get your hopes up. Joan Jurancich aka Lady Devereux (RPFN) Sacramento, CA At 09:24 PM 01/16/1999 -0800, BlackCat =^..^= wrote: > >-Poster: "BlackCat =^..^=" > >Does anyone know if blackwork was done on early 16th century men's >coifs? > >--~Chris Joan Jurancich Sacramento, CA joanj@quiknet.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 02:38:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA07931 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 02:38:10 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id AAA28290; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 00:54:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id AAA25909 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 00:46:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id AAA25903 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 00:46:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.175] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 101muT-0002DY-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 23:46:14 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990116135511.00bd3e70@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 14:05:45 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: H-COST: 'baby walker' Elizabethan In-Reply-To: <000d01be4181$190fb900$7417ffd0@default> References: <4.1.19990114113105.00bc3830@pop.slip.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows I was talking about the ones called leading strings, which were up to 3 inches wide by several feet long, and which occour in periods where there are no exact parallel form of actual sleeves. These occour as late as the 1600's, 1700's, and early 1800's. Certainly they were derived from hanging sleeves, but they no longer are by the time they are called leading strings. Check out ill.605 p.264 and ill.691 p.287 in Boucher/20K Years to see what I am talking about. In the first illo they are thin strap-like things. In the second illo they look like flat narrow vestigial hanging sleeves attached where an adult womens' dress had none. >The leading strings may have been useful, atavistic sleeves. >The wealthy medieval Persians had sleeves to the ground, >with openings at the point where they met the body and also >(or alternatively ) part way down the sleeve to put the arms >or hands through, respectively. If the sleeves were not >used, they hung from the shoulders down to the ground. Max >Tilke's on-line book shows more modern versions of these >ancient costumes. > >I've seen at least one painting of a little boy in >Italian(?) dress with his sleeves hanging from his shoulders >and buttoned together (using the wrist closure buttons) >behind him to keep them out of his way. They were real >sleeves, which he would have put on to keep warm if he were >outdoors. Sort of like people tie the belt of their >raincoat behind them today, to keep it handy but out of the >way. I can easily see these sleeves, atavistic and >otherwise, used to keep squirmy people securely in their >high chairs and out of harm's way. > >Hope H. Dunlap > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-h-costume@indra.com >[mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On >Behalf Of Carolyn Kayta Barrows >Sent: Thursday, January 14, 1999 2:35 PM >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: Re: H-COST: 'baby walker' Elizabethan > > > >-Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > > >>None of the walkers I've seen from the 14th century through >at least >>the 16th Century would prevent the child's reach or keep >them from >>tipping or going through doorways. > >Me neither. They have square bases, like mine had under the >round plastic >bits. Some look like modern old-people walkers, and some >look like mine >with a seat in the middle. > >>One of the most common things which maimed and killed >children of >>that time is falling into the fire. >> >>Leading strings attached to the backs of the doublet or >shoulders of >>the tunic is something you also see with the pre16th >century. This is >>so charming (and very costume oriented;) and it works. > >I think the leading strings are the method of tying a baby >to your own >apron strings. It gives a toddler about 6' of 'freedom' in >any direction, >and gives Mom a handle. > > >Kayta > ////.\\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ((( > | -- )))) > * ) ((((( > /----\ /---\ > > >____________________________________________________________ >_____ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to >majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 02:39:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA07951 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 02:39:48 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id AAA28450; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 00:56:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id AAA25997 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 00:48:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id AAA25992 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 00:47:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.180] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 101mw7-0002F4-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 23:47:56 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990116140631.00922250@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 23:45:01 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Sleeves of Childhood, Was Elizabethan walker In-Reply-To: <001101be4193$a0f41020$7417ffd0@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >Here is an image of a Turkish caftan with Persian style >sleeves, which I suggested might be the original source for >the "sleeves of childhood," or "leading strings." >http://ps.theatre.tulane.edu/Period.Styles/Costumes/text/Ita >lian.Renaissance/CJ38.html >In this photograph, the sleeves are draped to the front of >the mannequin, so you can't see the openings for the hands >and arms. But in real life, they were worn draped to the >back when not in use. This may be what Turkish/Persian mothers used, but by the time they had the name leading strings they weren't sleeves anymore. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 03:24:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA13846 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 03:24:12 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id BAA00721; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 01:40:47 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id BAA28046 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 01:32:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id BAA28036 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 01:32:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.172] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 101nd2-0002jy-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 00:32:16 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990116235710.00be2560@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 00:03:26 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Doll clothes (was: Double messages?) In-Reply-To: References: <36A01796.40C8F3B7@bellsouth.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >>Hi, I am new to this list and have thoroughly enjoyed all the wonderful info >>re: costuming. One of my main interests is making historically correct >>dolls. > > Welcome to the list! I think there are several of us who dabbles in >doll-making now and then. Myself I'm hard at work (yes everybody, I know I >said she would be ready by Christmas, but I've been terribly delayed :-) on >the finishing touches on my first doll: a young girl with a compleat and >(as far as I can make it) correct c.1545 outfit. And this spring I'm >tentatively thinking on starting on one with mid-19th century clothes - an >elderly lady this time. > By 'historically correct dolls' do you mean that they look like a >doll would have done in, for example, the 18th century, or do you mean that >they have historically correct clothes? Personally it's the clothes I'm >interested in, the doll is mostly just something to put them on :-) Does anyone on this list dabble in paper dolls? My research shows these going back to the mid 1600's (if I read the photo correctly). Certainly they go back to the early 1800's as cheap 'fashion babies'. I draw well enough to be able to manage this, and it would do very well for the dresses I am not sure I want to take the time sewing for dolls. I was thinking I could put my face on them and draw any waist size I like. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 03:24:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA13850 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 03:24:14 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id BAA00712; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 01:40:46 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id BAA28045 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 01:32:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id BAA28027 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 01:32:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.172] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 101nd0-0002jy-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 00:32:15 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990116235438.00bdc490@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 23:56:03 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Blackwork on coifs?? In-Reply-To: <36A1741F.60560482@BlueNeptune.Com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows I have seen photos of Elizabethan blackwork on what they were calling men's nightcaps, but not on any day wear for Elizabethan men. > >Does anyone know if blackwork was done on early 16th century men's >coifs? Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 04:50:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA14311 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 04:50:58 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id CAA03711; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 02:34:02 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id CAA29897 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 02:25:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from ns.altum.com ([209.61.95.225]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id CAA29889 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 02:25:29 -0700 (MST) Received: (from knowles@localhost) by ns.altum.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id EAA09228; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 04:25:28 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 04:25:28 -0500 (EST) From: Sheryl Knowles Message-Id: <199901170925.EAA09228@ns.altum.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Doll clothes (was: Double messages?) Cc: knowles@thegrid.net, sknowles@worldsaway.com Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sheryl Knowles Hello, I am a long-time lurker on this list and have collected paper dolls (and drawn and published them) for years and years. They can be an interesting facet of historical clothing and have the "feature" of frequently displaying underclothes. Paper toys, of course, had to wait until paper became commonly available. According to C.H.Fawcett "Collector's Guide to Antique Paper Dolls" originally published in 1951, paper dolls as fashion models did not appear until 1791, altho paper pantins (jumping jacks) were introduced into Europe in 1662. The first was advertised in the "Journal der Moden" thusly: "A new and very pretty invention is the so-called English doll which we have lately received from London.... a young female figure cut out of stout cardboard. It is about eight inches high, has simply curled hair, and is dressed in underclothing and corset. With it go six sets of tastefully designed dresses and head-dresses which are cut out of paper...." M.B. Howard in "Those Fascinating Paper Dolls", originally published in 1965 and republished by Dover in 1981, describes 'ritual figures of paper' used in rites in the orient in 900AD and mentions the pre-Columbian use of paper figures in MesoAmerica, but, technically, most people class paper _dolls_ as dolls of paper (or cardboard) with changes of attire. Ms Howard states that the earliest such paper doll published in the United States came out in 1812. I must admit that my 100s of paper dolls take up far less room and show far more styles than my collections of dolls or SCA garb. *sigh* But they are not as tactile. :-) ---Sheryl Knowles SCA: Teleri Tawel, Crosston, Mists, West  _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 05:12:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA14416 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 05:11:59 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id DAA05418; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 03:28:46 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id DAA13798 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 03:20:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from morgoth.tuug.org (root@morgoth.tuug.org [130.232.72.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id DAA13638 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 03:19:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from delenn.yok.utu.fi ([130.232.128.27] HELO delenn.yok.utu.fi ident: NO-IDENT-SERVICE [port 8452]) by tuug.org with SMTP id <40845-1450>; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 12:19:51 +0200 From: "Ella Lynoure Rajamaki" Organization: Lyninine Federation To: Margo Anderson , h-costume@indra.com Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 12:19:59 +2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: H-Cost: Synthetic whalebone? Priority: normal In-reply-to: <199901170350.TAA21418@zeus.directcon.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Message-Id: <19990117101951Z40845-1450+4@tuug.org> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Ella Lynoure Rajamaki" On 16 Jan 99, at 19:50, Margo Anderson wrote: > About two years, ago, someone posted to this list about a new type of > synthetic whalebone that was supposed to closely replicate the real thing. > I believe it was made in Germany. Does anyone know anything about it? I have been using it (only the 1mm x 10mm and 2.5mm x 6mm sizes, though others are also available) in the corsets and bodices I have made during the last couple of years. I cannot compare it to real whalebone, as I have never had access to that, but perhaps I can answer some questions anyway. -- -------(c) 1999--------------* lynoure@tuug.org * Ella Lynoure Rajamaki--------* http://www.tuug.org/~lynoure * _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 05:12:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA14423 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 05:12:18 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id DAA05483; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 03:29:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id DAA14365 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 03:20:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from morgoth.tuug.org (root@morgoth.tuug.org [130.232.72.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id DAA14253 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 03:20:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from delenn.yok.utu.fi ([130.232.128.27] HELO delenn.yok.utu.fi ident: NO-IDENT-SERVICE [port 8964]) by tuug.org with SMTP id <40846-1469>; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 12:20:21 +0200 From: "Ella Lynoure Rajamaki" Organization: Lyninine Federation To: Mary Denise Smith , h-costume@indra.com Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 12:20:33 +2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: H-Cost: Synthetic whalebone? Priority: normal In-reply-to: <36A16177.5FE30CF2@earthlink.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Message-Id: <19990117102021Z40846-1469+3@tuug.org> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Ella Lynoure Rajamaki" On 16 Jan 99, at 21:05, Mary Denise Smith wrote: > It does come in a variety of weights, but this is the only one I tried. What weight did you try? -- -------(c) 1999--------------* lynoure@tuug.org * Ella Lynoure Rajamaki--------* http://www.tuug.org/~lynoure * _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 07:24:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA15051 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 07:24:27 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id FAA09211; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 05:41:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id FAA03647 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 05:32:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from onramp.i2k.com (root@onramp.i2k.com [207.75.224.3]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id FAA03642 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 05:32:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from raille(o7du32.i2k.com[198.110.185.32]) (1183 bytes) by onramp.i2k.com via sendmail with P:smtp/R:bind_dns/T:smtp (sender: ) id for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 07:25:55 -0500 (EST) (Smail-3.2.0.99 1997-Dec-4 #30 built 1998-Oct-10) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990117073922.007a7100@onramp.i2k.com> X-Sender: alwen@onramp.i2k.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 07:39:22 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Lynn Carpenter Subject: H-COST: Wintersilks Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lynn Carpenter "Matt Dragonfly Drury" wrote: > >>You can mail order silk underwear, both men's and women's, from >>Wintersilks, > > >Satisfied customer as well. Our order was lost days before we were going up >to DC from Orlando (brr), and they shipped a replacement with enough time >for us to enjoy them. Has anyone dealt with them recently? I did an Altavista search to find the URL http://www.wintersilks.com/ and the second article was this one, which said they were filing for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection. The article is dated August 6, 1988. http://www.mediacentral.com/Magazines/CatalogAge/Weekly/98/1998080602.htm Anyone know if they have their finances straightened out? Lynn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 07:39:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA15124 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 07:39:34 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id FAA09567; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 05:56:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id FAA04157 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 05:47:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from onramp.i2k.com (root@onramp.i2k.com [207.75.224.3]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id FAA04152 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 05:47:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from raille(o7du32.i2k.com[198.110.185.32]) (2135 bytes) by onramp.i2k.com via sendmail with P:smtp/R:bind_dns/T:smtp (sender: ) id for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 07:41:15 -0500 (EST) (Smail-3.2.0.99 1997-Dec-4 #30 built 1998-Oct-10) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990117075442.007a78c0@onramp.i2k.com> X-Sender: alwen@onramp.i2k.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 07:54:42 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Lynn Carpenter Subject: H-COST: Miser's Purses Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lynn Carpenter Joan M Jurancich wrote: >I have been knitting long purses (aka miser's purses) lately and have been >wondering how long this style has been around. I know that they were popular >for much of the 19th Century and at least the later part of the 18th. Has >anyone ever run across references for this style (two-ended with a slit in >the middle and two rings to keep things inside; made in fabric, thin >leather, knitting, etc.) that pre-date the later half of the 18th Century? > Coincidentally, working on my New Year's resolution to de-clutter my house, I found a Piecework magazine my mom gave me with an article on miser's purses by Gwen Blakley Kinsler, which includes directions for crocheting a beaded one. (Piecework, Nov/Dec 1996, pages 46-51) She says, "...the tube-shaped miser's purses were popular for nearly 150 years, between 1780 to 1925" and that they were most popular during the second half of the 19th century, becoming one of the most common purses carried by Victorians, and used by both men and women. The shape is supposed to have originated from the practice of carrying coins in the toe of a stocking. The article is illustrated with examples from the collection of the Kliots (the Lacis people), including one which looks exactly like a tube sock with the top sewn shut. That is, one end is rounded like the sock toe, and the other is squared off like the top of the sock. But I should mention that it is beaded with shiny silvery beads, and has "danglies" of large silvery beads at both ends. So this doesn't date them any earlier than 1780. Wish I could show you these cool pictures! Lynn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 07:43:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA15148 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 07:43:08 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id GAA09715; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 06:00:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id FAA04278 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 05:51:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from public.ndh.com (public.ndh.net [194.97.97.21]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id FAA04268 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 05:51:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from Andrea (port065.koeln.ndh.net [195.94.92.65]) by public.ndh.com (8.8.7/8.8.0) with ESMTP id NAA14677 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 13:51:12 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <36A1FBDC.58A9D07D@ndh.net> Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 16:03:59 +0100 From: Andrea Clef X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [de] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Wrong date X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------EEB473939BD224B6E0A43EB1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Andrea Clef --------------EEB473939BD224B6E0A43EB1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > I just now got this message, its 4:41 (PST) pm Friday, 1/15. It's dated > Jan 8th. Even though I check my mail on an hourly basis while at work, I > keep looking back and finding new messages from you dated a week ago. You > may want to check the date on your computer to see if it's right. I > couldn't figure it out at first, and I'm sure I'm not the only person > you're confusing! > > Yours, > Lynn D > Sorry, but my computer clock doesn´t work correctly, I know. I correct the date from time to time but after some days it is always late. I believe that it`s stops counting when the computer is off. But now I`ll try to remember to correct the date every time before writing a message, so nobody gets confused. Thanks for mentioning the problem. Greetings, Diana --------------EEB473939BD224B6E0A43EB1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 

I just now got this message, its 4:41 (PST) pm Friday, 1/15.  It's dated
Jan 8th.  Even though I check my mail on an hourly basis while at work, I
keep looking back and finding new messages from you dated a week ago.  You
may want to check the date on your computer to see if it's right.  I
couldn't figure it out at first, and I'm sure I'm not the only person
you're confusing!

Yours,
Lynn D
Sorry, but my computer clock doesn´t work correctly, I know.
I correct the date from time to time but after some days it is always late.
I believe that it`s stops counting when the computer is off.
But now I`ll try to remember to correct the date every time before writing a message,
so nobody gets confused.
Thanks for mentioning the problem.

Greetings,
Diana --------------EEB473939BD224B6E0A43EB1-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 09:06:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA15575 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 09:06:50 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA12887; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 07:23:47 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA07912 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 07:14:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA07907 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 07:14:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.217.218.201] (ell146.acadia.net [205.217.218.201]) by p2.acadia.net (8.8.5/8.8.6) with SMTP id JAA28615 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 09:14:39 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 09:14:44 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: nightcaps Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) <> Men's nightcaps, until the 19th century, were *not* worn for sleeping (bed caps were), they were fashionable "undress" which meant they were worn at home in informal situations, especially if the wearer habitually wore a wig (they were worn well into the 19c though, when wigs were no longer worn.) Deborah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 09:29:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA15689 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 09:29:38 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA14365; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 07:46:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA09285 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 07:37:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from m13.boston.juno.com (m13.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.193]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA09256 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 07:37:44 -0700 (MST) Received: (from kiri5@juno.com) by m13.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id DY6ZJG7A; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 09:37:25 EST To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 09:32:42 -0500 Subject: H-COST: Elizabethan sites Message-ID: <19990117.093243.3302.1.kiri5@juno.com> References: <199901171251.FAA04287@indra.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,5-8 From: kiri5@juno.com (Bette Anne Adams) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: kiri5@juno.com (Bette Anne Adams) Are there any Elizabethan or Renaissance sites out there? My husband and I have very lightly dabbled in CW and I think the former would be more to our tastes. Especially my husband's interest in armor. Anything earlier. Thank you, Bette Anne Adams ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 09:44:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA15762 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 09:44:56 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA16411; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 08:02:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA09989 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 07:53:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.18]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA09984 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 07:53:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.20.175 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 06:52:30 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Sleeves of Childhood, Was Elizabethan walker Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 09:55:34 -0500 Message-ID: <000301be4229$a1851b60$551fffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-reply-to: <4.1.19990116140631.00922250@pop.slip.net> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" I think you may have missed my earlier post. You are quite right, they had ceased to be sleeves, hence my use of the word "atavistic." But the shape of the extremely slender Persian sleeves is precisely the shape used on some old children's dresses. I could have used the word "vestigial" too. Repeating from my first post on the subject: "The leading strings may have been useful, atavistic sleeves. The wealthy medieval Persians had sleeves to the ground, with openings at the point where they met the body and also (or alternatively ) part way down the sleeve to put the arms or hands through, respectively. If the sleeves were not used, they hung from the shoulders down to the ground. Max Tilke's on-line book shows more modern versions of these ancient costumes. I've seen at least one painting of a little boy in Italian(?) dress with his sleeves hanging from his shoulders and buttoned together (using the wrist closure buttons) behind him to keep them out of his way. They were real sleeves, which he would have put on to keep warm if he were outdoors. Sort of like people tie the belt of their raincoat behind them today, to keep it handy but out of the way. I can easily see these sleeves, atavistic and otherwise, used to keep squirmy people securely in their high chairs and out of harm's way." These sleeves were used on grown-up's Persian caftans. In my house, the children would use them to tie their parents to their chairs. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Carolyn Kayta Barrows Sent: Sunday, January 17, 1999 2:45 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Sleeves of Childhood, Was Elizabethan walker -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >Here is an image of a Turkish caftan with Persian style >sleeves, which I suggested might be the original source for >the "sleeves of childhood," or "leading strings." >http://ps.theatre.tulane.edu/Period.Styles/Costumes/text/It a >lian.Renaissance/CJ38.html >In this photograph, the sleeves are draped to the front of >the mannequin, so you can't see the openings for the hands >and arms. But in real life, they were worn draped to the >back when not in use. This may be what Turkish/Persian mothers used, but by the time they had the name leading strings they weren't sleeves anymore. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 10:00:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA15847 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 10:00:23 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA17200; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 08:17:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA10824 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 08:08:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.19]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA10816 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 08:08:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.23.221 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 07:08:06 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: H-COST: RE: Paper Dolls Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 10:07:44 -0500 Message-ID: <000401be422b$ce2af020$551fffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-reply-to: <199901170925.EAA09228@ns.altum.com> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" In Little Men, by Louisa May Alcott, there is a scene where little Daisy sacrifices her paper doll babies on a fire made by the boys. They were drawn for her by her Aunt Amy, who was very artistic and also very fond of nice feminine clothes. Published 1871. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Sheryl Knowles Sent: Sunday, January 17, 1999 4:25 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: knowles@thegrid.net; sknowles@worldsaway.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Doll clothes (was: Double messages?) -Poster: Sheryl Knowles Hello, I am a long-time lurker on this list and have collected paper dolls (and drawn and published them) for years and years. They can be an interesting facet of historical clothing and have the "feature" of frequently displaying underclothes. Paper toys, of course, had to wait until paper became commonly available. According to C.H.Fawcett "Collector's Guide to Antique Paper Dolls" originally published in 1951, paper dolls as fashion models did not appear until 1791, altho paper pantins (jumping jacks) were introduced into Europe in 1662. The first was advertised in the "Journal der Moden" thusly: "A new and very pretty invention is the so-called English doll which we have lately received from London.... a young female figure cut out of stout cardboard. It is about eight inches high, has simply curled hair, and is dressed in underclothing and corset. With it go six sets of tastefully designed dresses and head-dresses which are cut out of paper...." M.B. Howard in "Those Fascinating Paper Dolls", originally published in 1965 and republished by Dover in 1981, describes 'ritual figures of paper' used in rites in the orient in 900AD and mentions the pre-Columbian use of paper figures in MesoAmerica, but, technically, most people class paper _dolls_ as dolls of paper (or cardboard) with changes of attire. Ms Howard states that the earliest such paper doll published in the United States came out in 1812. I must admit that my 100s of paper dolls take up far less room and show far more styles than my collections of dolls or SCA garb. *sigh* But they are not as tactile. :-) ---Sheryl Knowles SCA: Teleri Tawel, Crosston, Mists, West  ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 10:12:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA15914 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 10:12:31 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA17659; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 08:29:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA11668 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 08:20:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.26]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA11658 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 08:20:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.34.113 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 07:19:59 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Cc: Subject: RE: H-COST: Fw: [sewingbusinesses] Re: Digest Number 40 Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 10:23:07 -0500 Message-ID: <000501be422d$7838c320$551fffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-reply-to: <19990116.220303.-169117.1.kimberlykdobbs@juno.com> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Amazon Drygoods also carries Period Patterns. They have an Italian Renaissance number in their catalogue, Period Patterns, Medieval Miscellanea Number 41, which may be the one this lady needs. Call them at 1-800-798-7979 to place an order. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Kimberly K Dobbs Sent: Saturday, January 16, 1999 11:03 PM To: h-costume@indra.com; sewinghistoric@onelist.com; sewing@onelist.com Subject: H-COST: Fw: [sewingbusinesses] Re: Digest Number 40 -Poster: kimberlykdobbs@juno.com (Kimberly K Dobbs) Hi, I received this on my list. I thought maybe someone on here could help her! Kimberly --------- Forwarded message ---------- From: MsMystic1@aol.com To: sewingbusinesses@onelist.com Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 21:18:52 EST Subject: [sewingbusinesses] Re: Digest Number 40 Message-ID: <92b64ca5.36a1488c@aol.com> From: MsMystic1@aol.com This was posted on aol sewing board, pattern search. Can any of you help her out? I thought maybe you could, since so many of you make wedding gowns. Her email is Ortmayer@aol.com. Carole Subject: helphelphelp Date: 1/16/1999 4:05 PM Eastern Standard Time From: Ortmayer Message-id: <19990116160506.21939.00002003@ng152.aol.com> I am not burned out (yet) but I am frantic. My future daughter-in-law is letting me make her wedding dress, which pleases me a lot since she can afford anything she wants. I ordered a pattern from Harper House, MM41, which we both liked since she will be 8 months pregnant when the wedding day arrives, and it is cut high under the bust with a full skirt. I ordered the pattern right after Thanksgiving, and it has not arrived. I can't phone them because their number gives you lots of other numbers to press and none of them get to a real person. There is one for leaving a message, but after half a dozen tries, no response. I used to be able to contact someone by email (harperh@epix.net) but the last three emails went unanswered. Shriek!! I have learned that Harper House is a clearing house for a number of other pattern companies, who provide the patterns that HH sells. The one that makes the pattern I want is called Period Patterns. I can't find an ad for them in Threads or any of my other sewing publications. Does anyone have any ideas? There is definitely a deadline - I have to take the dress in muslin to the San Juan Islands for the bride to try on the first of March, and the idea of designing a dress from a drawing for someone who can go to Paris to buy things leaves me all stomach-quivery. Needless to say, if someone has the pattern I will gladly pay $50 for it. I will also DEEPLY appreciate any hints on what to do now, barring going to Paris myself and getting Dior to make it. Jane, Escondido, CA ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------ To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 10:20:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA15958 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 10:20:31 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA18127; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 08:37:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA12213 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 08:28:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA12208 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 08:28:44 -0700 (MST) From: Seton1355@aol.com Received: from Seton1355@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id LYJKa06037 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 10:28:09 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1e9a4544.36a20189@aol.com> Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 10:28:09 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Elizabethan sites Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 236 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Seton1355@aol.com Elizabethan Costuming Homepage Color in 16th Century Dress Tudor dress: portfolio of images 17th Century Stays - How to make them The Elizabethan Corset Page 17th Century Fashion, 1600-1630 What is a Codpiece? Codpiece International Menu Celtic Dress of the 16th C. Native Clothing in the 17th Century Pilgrim Clothing: Dress in Early New England Pilgrim Costume Welcome to Tudor England Tudors and Stuarts THE QUEEN OF SCOTS I have lots of others. Phillipa > Are there any Elizabethan or Renaissance sites out there? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 14:02:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA17127 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 14:02:42 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA04296; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 12:20:24 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA27639 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 12:10:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.73]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA27632; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 12:10:55 -0700 (MST) From: Gerekr@aol.com Received: from Gerekr@aol.com by imo29.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id DUWNa01221; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 14:09:36 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <2525128e.36a23570@aol.com> Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 14:09:36 EST To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume-digest@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: WW II Help Kids clothing Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Claris Emailer v2.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Gerekr@aol.com On 1/15/99 11:35 AM you wrote: >-Poster: Melanie Wilson > >Has anyone any pictures of Children in Britain in World War 2 they could >scan and send me for my daughters school project ? > >Also any kids games & special memories of food ? > >Thanks > >Mel I just happen to have at home a book from the children's section of the public library called "After the war was over" by the illustrator Michael Foreman. It's his personal recollections of the period, mostly in watercolor but with a few photos thrown in, in which the children's or other clothing corresponds 100% to that in the illustrations... The point being that Mr Foreman has also written an "award-winning" book, titled "War Boy", which is about himself during the war years. If in the same style, that might be a good place to look for all three, clothes, games and food. I'm pretty sure both of these were published in GB first, as he still lives there, so that might be of some assistance, if you have time to collect them. About food, my library also has recently received "Food and Feasts Between the Wars", a children's series, no idea how available where you are, that might be pertinent; it would have factual reproductions mostly, vs. illustrations, as it follows the other titles in the series I've seen (F&F in the Middle ages, Ren, with the Vikings, Victorians, etc. as I recall). Based on Vikings and MA books, the text may not be 100%, but the illustrations are fine. Good luck, Chimene/Patsy _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 14:29:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA17307 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 14:29:30 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA06189; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 12:46:54 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA29920 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 12:37:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from send103.yahoomail.com (send103.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.92]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id MAA29913 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 12:37:23 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <19990117193932.7619.rocketmail@send103.yahoomail.com> Received: from [209.52.33.103] by send103.yahoomail.com; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 11:39:32 PST Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 11:39:32 -0800 (PST) From: Glenda Hohmann Subject: H-COST: undergarments To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Glenda Hohmann > - -Poster: Sylvia Rognstad > > Btw, has anyone else noticed that it seems impossible to buy anything > but wonder bras these days, you know, the kind with underwires? I dont > like sports bras. I just want one of those little nothing kind of bras > that were so popular in the 70s that women bought to try to look like > they were braless. At least they were comfortable. Anyone know where to > find one of those today, or at least something without underwires that > doesnt look like one of those Playtex pointy things? Who still wears > those? [from v4n38] They can be found, you just have to look and look and look, although it seems that it is easier to find them here in Canada from what you are saying. In the last couple of years, I have found that the best place to find bras that fit me and at a reasonable price is Walmart of all places. I don't know if they have the same customer service where you live as here, but when I was looking for more of the same bra and they didn't have any, they immediately asked if I wanted them to order me some more and, if so, how many (without me even asking if they would!). You have to keep in mind that the closest thing that I have found to fitting me there (and they do fit reasonably well) is a Fruit of the Loom bra with cotton spandex fabric, for both the cups and band, and underwire in a 34D. This is not too bad, considering that I fit a 32DD, although the "official" measurement guidelines tell me that I "should" fit a 38 with what size cup I'm not sure, but I have 8" difference between my under bust (33") and my bust (40") measurements, and what a lot of women hate about me most is that it is all natural. Go figure..... The other thing that you could do is give up and start making your own. I have started doing this for my sister's sports bras as she can't find any that fit her entirely correctly, or are large enough, or that keep everything from bouncing out when she is playing volleyball. The ones that do fit her are cut too low and, to fit her bust, are too large around her ribs. And mine are next. I have altered the sportsbra pattern that I made for my sister to fit me yet resemble more of a regular bra. The real great joy - it supports me with NO underwire :> (happy, happy, joy, joy, joy!) and that is when it is made with 2 layers of cotton/spandex fabric. I also have a Vogue bustier pattern (9273 - I think it is still current) and view B has fitted cups on it with an integrated strap (no seam attachment to the top of the cup) that I am going to alter (shorten) and turn into a bra pattern. This one I am going to make with regular woven fabric. As I am making it to fit myself, and no one else, a couple of inches of elastic in the straps and the band are all that is required for ease when you move around. There are patterns available out there for making your own bras, panties, and other lingeree. I don't know what you have available in your area for pattern companies, but a couple of good ones that I have found, aside from the one Vogue, are Kwik Sew brand and Stretch-n-Sew brand. Both companies are out of the US and do a lot of stuff that is actionwear/stretchy/ lingeree type stuff with great instructions. It's definitely something for you to think about. From what you described of the bra type that you are looking for, it is basically the same as I used to wear the first few years of highschool -- an elastic band with the cups being two triangles of lycra, gathered a bit on the sides, and two skinny elastic straps. That style would definitely be easier to make than what I need to be able to support my figure. Anyway, I hope this helps you a bit. I would have answered sooner, but I am getting really backed up on my reading as the list is a bit more active than I expected (and I get the digested form). Sincerely, Glenda Hohmann (Katrynka Chornovoloskaya) Kamloops, BC, Canada (MoAS, Ramsgaard, An Tir) == ***************************************** * Two things stand like stone: * * Kindness in another's trouble, * * Courage in your own. * ***************************************** _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 14:30:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA17322 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 14:30:20 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA06410; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 12:47:58 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA00119 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 12:38:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from send101.yahoomail.com (send101.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.87]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id MAA00109 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 12:38:26 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <19990117193722.6176.rocketmail@send101.yahoomail.com> Received: from [209.52.33.103] by send101.yahoomail.com; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 11:37:22 PST Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 11:37:22 -0800 (PST) From: Glenda Hohmann Subject: H-COST: cartridge pleats To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Glenda Hohmann > - -Poster: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" > > I also did cartridge pleating for the first time and could have shot > myself for not doing it before! It's easy and I found the drape of the > skirt to be just what I was hoping it would do. I plan on doing it on > all my Italian rens from now on, too! [from V4n36] Now, my question would be: did you hand sew the skirt to the bodice, or did you do it by machine? And if you did it by machine, how were you able to keep the pleats from flattening out (if you did at all)? Or (assuming you did it by machine) did you start stitching from the center front of the bodice around to the back and just let the pleats flatten out as you went? Okay, I guess that's three questions, but I think you can see where I am going with this one... Katrynka Katrynka Chornovoloskaya (Glenda Hohmann) MoAS, Ramsgaard, An Tir (Kamloops, BC, Canada) == ***************************************** * Two things stand like stone: * * Kindness in another's trouble, * * Courage in your own. * ***************************************** _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 15:00:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA17669 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 15:00:05 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA09000; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 13:17:45 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA02500 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 13:08:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id NAA02494 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 13:08:10 -0700 (MST) Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 13:08:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 23905 invoked from network); 17 Jan 1999 20:03:41 -0000 Received: from 104.64.3-6.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (207.231.64.104) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 17 Jan 1999 20:03:41 -0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19990117120809.2b5f853e@mail2.quiknet.com> X-Sender: joanj@mail2.quiknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: Re: H-COST: cartridge pleats Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Joan M Jurancich At 11:37 AM 01/17/1999 -0800, Glenda Hohmann wrote: > >-Poster: Glenda Hohmann > >> - -Poster: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" >> >> I also did cartridge pleating for the first time and could have shot >> myself for not doing it before! It's easy and I found the drape of [snip] > >Now, my question would be: did you hand sew the skirt to the bodice, >or did you do it by machine? And if you did it by machine, how were >you able to keep the pleats from flattening out (if you did at all)? >Or (assuming you did it by machine) did you start stitching from the >center front of the bodice around to the back and just let the pleats >flatten out as you went? > >Okay, I guess that's three questions, but I think you can see where I >am going with this one... > >Katrynka > >Katrynka Chornovoloskaya (Glenda Hohmann) >MoAS, Ramsgaard, An Tir (Kamloops, BC, Canada) In order for the cartridge pleats to hang properly, you really need to sew them by hand. You *don't* want to flatten them out at all. Only the top of the fold is sewn to the bodice, the bottom can just hang free. Joan Jurancich aka Lady Dorothy (Hastings) Devereux [RPFN], mother [in-law] to Lady Essex joanj@quiknet.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 16:01:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA18045 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 16:01:37 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA13929; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 14:18:35 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA06899 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 14:09:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from value.net (root@value.net [204.188.125.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA06894 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 14:08:57 -0700 (MST) From: koz@value.net Received: from kavvieP (op251.value.net [209.182.130.251]) by value.net (8.8.7/8.7.4) with SMTP id NAA16935 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 13:08:54 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901172108.NAA16935@value.net> To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 13:11:01 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: Wintersilks Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3.0.5.32.19990117073922.007a7100@onramp.i2k.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01c) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: koz@value.net Date sent: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 07:39:22 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Lynn Carpenter Subject: H-COST: Wintersilks Send reply to: h-costume@indra.com > > Has anyone dealt with them recently? I did an Altavista search to find the > URL > http://www.wintersilks.com/ > and the second article was this one, which said they were filing for > Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection. The article is dated August 6, 1988. > http://www.mediacentral.com/Magazines/CatalogAge/Weekly/98/1998080602.htm > > Anyone know if they have their finances straightened out? > > Lynn ___________________________________________________ I believe my wife and I bought some things from wintersilks just last year...and I am sure that they sent us at least 2 new catalogs for Christmas sales and such. Hope this helps Michael _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 16:09:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA18081 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 16:09:02 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA14746; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 14:26:53 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA07418 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 14:17:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from mx.serv.net (mx.serv.net [205.153.153.234]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA07399 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 14:17:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from gia-g (dialup742.serv.net [207.207.65.106]) by mx.serv.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA23700 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 13:17:06 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <001601be425f$39f2eaa0$6a41cfcf@gia-g> From: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: cartridge pleats Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 13:19:45 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" Hi! No, the only thing I machine stitched on was the twill tape along the top edge of the skirt I cartridge pleated. I really was trying to do the thing 'by hand', so that's the only concession I made, for speed. I 'inherited' some white 2" wide twill tape which I machine long stitched on, folded the skirt top edge along the 'seam line' (about 5/8 ") and hand stitched the cartridge pleating stitches, using double strand of thread (quilters), beeswaxed for strength, making sure I had nice tails for pulling to make the pleats. My stitches were at about 1/2 " intervals to make a nice deep pleat. The first row about 1/4 inch down and the second row about another 1/4 down from the first row of pleating stitches. I used matching thread because I wanted to keep the pleating stitches in the garment for stability. I then hand stitched the pleats onto the finished bodice (by that I mean that the bodice was completely finished, even the waist seam; all seams were encased by the lining). I read Mistress Kat's instructions on how to do this in the FTSO years ago and was doing it from memory of those instructions...I have been trying to find my issue with the instructions but no luck yet. Hopefully I was close enough to how it was done! I didn't want the pleating to flatten out, and I knew that in order for me to get the 'full' pleating effect I wanted, I had to hand stitch it. This of course is only my opnion and others may not agree; that's ok... Gia/Giacinta costuming nut >Now, my question would be: did you hand sew the skirt to the bodice, >or did you do it by machine? And if you did it by machine, how were >you able to keep the pleats from flattening out (if you did at all)? >Or (assuming you did it by machine) did you start stitching from the >center front of the bodice around to the back and just let the pleats >flatten out as you went? > >Okay, I guess that's three questions, but I think you can see where I >am going with this one... > >Katrynka > >Katrynka Chornovoloskaya (Glenda Hohmann) >MoAS, Ramsgaard, An Tir (Kamloops, BC, Canada) > >== >***************************************** >* Two things stand like stone: * >* Kindness in another's trouble, * >* Courage in your own. * >***************************************** >_________________________________________________________ >DO YOU YAHOO!? >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 17:01:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA18369 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 17:01:28 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA19391; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 15:19:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA11290 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 15:09:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA11283 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 15:09:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (pilot [129.127.36.15]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id IAA29875 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 08:39:26 +1030 (CST) Received: by pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.61+IDA+MU/UA-5.23) id AA09761; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 08:39:26 +1030 Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 08:39:25 +1030 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant X-Sender: csmart@pilot To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Baa baa black sheep? In-Reply-To: <199901151508.HAA25762@smtp.pacifier.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Fri, 15 Jan 1999 kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > > > > Any sheep that is not pure white is a "black sheep". And the colors range > > from grays and light browns to brown-black to reddish-browns. All these > > colors are natural and could have been found in medieval sheep. Of course, > > the white wool takes dyes much more clearly than naturally-colored wool, so > > it was more valuable. The "black" wools, of whatever shade, could well have > > been given to the poor. > > >From what I understand, when you are trying to get a really white > flock, the black sheep lambs became stew, sausage, lamb chops, etc. Actually I saw a thing about this on the telly last week. Modern sheep farmers (this report was focusing on merinos in particular) really, really hate black sheep of any degree of 'blackness', because the dark wool is so hard to dye a different colour. Even being in the same paddock they 'contaminate' the fleeces of the white sheep when they rub against them etc. A great big black hair in the middle of some wool you were trying to dye lemon yellow would be unfortunate, yes? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 20:33:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA19491 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 20:33:54 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA09315; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 18:51:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA27924 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 18:41:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.rdu.bellsouth.net (mail.rdu.bellsouth.net [205.152.32.21]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA27917 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 18:41:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from bellsouth.net (host-209-214-161-59.rdu.bellsouth.net [209.214.161.59]) by mail.rdu.bellsouth.net (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA23722 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 20:41:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36A2916B.3F818410@bellsouth.net> Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 20:42:03 -0500 From: Renata McAdams X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-bls40 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: nightcaps References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Renata McAdams What a fascinating piece of information! Did men during that period of time, also wear hats indoors (in addition to the fashion) because it was considered improper to expose the head? Interesting how customs change. During the 1950s when I was a little girl and until my dad passed away in 1980 (he was born in 1890), he (and other gents of his era) always wore a hat outside, but it was considered rude and in poor taste if one did not remove the hat when coming inside a house or church. And, tipping one's hat to a woman in greeting was considered the norm. Renata McAdams renatamc@bellsouth.net Raleigh, NC Deborah Pulliam wrote: > -Men's nightcaps, until the 19th century, were *not* worn for sleeping (bed > caps were), they were fashionable "undress" which meant they were worn at > home in informal situations, especially if the wearer habitually wore a wig > (they were worn well into the 19c though, when wigs were no longer worn.) > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 20:40:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA19550 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 20:39:59 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA10223; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 18:57:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA28549 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 18:47:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.netwiz.net (Mail.NetWiz.Net [208.136.106.6]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA28540 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 18:47:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from slave (BayArea56k535.NetWiz.Net [208.164.208.135]) by mail.netwiz.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id RAA16331 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 17:47:51 -0800 Message-ID: <36A291C2.3473@netwiz.net> Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 17:43:31 -0800 From: Susan Fatemi X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: fort ross/ ethnic References: <000001be41ac$111dd260$a81fffd0@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Susan Fatemi Hope H. Dunlap wrote: > > -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" > > There is a costume book for mid-19th Century California and > the far West, which I personally have not seen, so I don't > know if it includes Russian immigrant costume of the type > you want. > > But it is by Rickman, David W. and called, Costume Manual: > Guide to Clothing Worn in California and Far West ca. 1845. > nd. Sutter's Fort. detailed costume reconstruction: Euro & > Native American, Californio, 121 Costume plates b/w and > color, lg. 4to. notebook bound 202p. > Thanks, Hope, I will pass on the info. I assume middle-class Russian women would have worn the same clothing as any Western woman in the 19th c., but I'm guessing that hunter's or trader's wives would have worn more "peasant" type clothing. Embroidered blouses? babushkas?? As I said, the info isn't for me, and I assume the lady in question has some contact with Fort Ross as she is planning to attend the event. I don't think she's going for serious authenticity, just "dress up". Susan -- Oh Noh! Kimonos! susanf@netwiz.net http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 20:45:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA19610 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 20:45:37 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA10875; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 19:03:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA29041 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 18:53:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from sd.znet.com (sd.znet.com [207.167.64.5]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA29031 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 18:53:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.167.66.103] (sdts10-103.znet.net [207.167.66.103]) by sd.znet.com (8.9.2/8.9.2/jjb-sd) with ESMTP id RAA16843 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 17:53:38 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 17:53:38 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000d01be4181$190fb900$7417ffd0@default> References: <4.1.19990114113105.00bc3830@pop.slip.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Julie Adams Subject: RE: H-COST: 'baby walker' Elizabethan Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Julie Adams According to "Yesterday's Children" Leading strings were also used so that adults could help little ones walk without falling. It indicated that prior to the 19th c, crawling was discouraged as "beast-like", so if possible children were pushed directly to walking using leading strings and walkers. Julie Adams _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 20:55:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA19674 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 20:55:00 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA11590; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 19:12:58 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA00268 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 19:02:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.wenet.net (meat.hooked.net [206.80.6.50]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA00261 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 19:02:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from wenet.net (korea-138.ppp.hooked.net [206.169.225.138]) by smtp.wenet.net (8.9.0/8.8.4) with ESMTP id SAA21581 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 18:02:52 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36A29741.3898C6F2@wenet.net> Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 18:06:57 -0800 From: Lawrence Kincaid X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-DIAL (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Wintersilks References: <199901172108.NAA16935@value.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lawrence Kincaid I still get the Winter Silks catalogue in the mail but I havent bought anything from them in at least 3 years. The socks were two tight at the top and not streachy enough and seemed to rough as well as the jocky type underwear (a knit) was very rough. The neck openings on most of their long sleeved turtle necked shirts is not set forward just a front and back of the same pattern. I believe the designers are Asian and are doing the sizing for a smaller people population. My overall opinion is that not much thought goes into the designing but then knits make room for a lot of leeway. The company is honest and I love the state of Wisconsin. I was always going to write them about their fabrics and designs but never got around to it. I know that all these postings about Winter Silks are off topic but then I felt compelled put this info out. sincerly larry Kincaid koz@value.net wrote: > -Poster: koz@value.net > > Date sent: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 07:39:22 -0500 > To: h-costume-digest@indra.com > From: Lynn Carpenter > Subject: H-COST: Wintersilks > Send reply to: h-costume@indra.com > > > > > Has anyone dealt with them recently? I did an Altavista search to find the > > URL > > http://www.wintersilks.com/ > > and the second article was this one, which said they were filing for > > Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection. The article is dated August 6, 1988. > > http://www.mediacentral.com/Magazines/CatalogAge/Weekly/98/1998080602.htm > > > > Anyone know if they have their finances straightened out? > > > > Lynn > ___________________________________________________ > > I believe my wife and I bought some things from wintersilks just last > year...and I am sure that they sent us at least 2 new catalogs for > Christmas sales and such. > > Hope this helps > > Michael > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 21:06:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA19780 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 21:06:37 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA12631; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 19:24:21 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA01746 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 19:14:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from wilma.widomaker.com (smtp@wilma.widomaker.com [204.17.220.5]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA01737 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 19:14:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.96.178.117] by wilma.widomaker.com with smtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for h-costume@indra.com id 1024Cn-0006Vm-00; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 21:14:17 -0500 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19990118021254.007036a8@mail.widomaker.com> X-Sender: rcarnegie@mail.widomaker.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 21:12:54 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Ron Carnegie Subject: Re: H-COST: fort ross/ ethnic Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Ron Carnegie At 12:28 PM 1/15/99 -0800, you wrote: > >-Poster: Susan Fatemi > >Some time ago there was a thread about what Russian women >settlers at Fort Ross (Calif.) might have worn. I wasn't >interested at the time, but my boss's wife and daughter >want to "dress up" to go to some event there and he's >asked if I could find any info. on it. > I lent him my Tilke book (explaining how much it would >cost to replace it!) But if anyone has any info. >specific to Fort Ross, I'd sure appreciate it. >(I wallowed around in the archives, but couldn't find >what I wanted, sorry) > Hmm...an ex-member of this list did a bit of work on this very subject. He also has a very good book available through Sutter's Fort (or at least it was back when I was still in the Golden State). We have a member on the list now who works at the fort and may be able to help you with this. Or call the Fort Ross in Jenner and they can help you. Cheers, Ron Carnegie rcarnegie@widomaker.com ************************************************* "The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground walked other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow." G.M. Trevelyan ************************************************* _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 21:10:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA19810 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 21:10:32 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA13219; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 19:28:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA02414 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 19:18:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.30]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA02409 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 19:18:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.58.165 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 18:18:00 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: H-COST: WW II Help Kids clothing Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 21:18:45 -0500 Message-ID: <000301be4289$62c3bb60$aa14ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-reply-to: <2525128e.36a23570@aol.com> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" There's a terrific movie, made about 7 years back, on this subject, but darned if I can remember the name of it. Dad was away at war, and Mom and the kids left the city to avoid the bombing. The boy got sent to boarding school, while the girl and her mom stayed with relatives. It was filmed from the point of view of the boy. The costuming was good. My favorite scene in the whole movie, was when the boy went back to school from vacation and found it wasn't there anymore, just a smoking pile of rubble. The mothers in the audience were thinking, "Oh, gee, just a few hours different, and the children would have been bombed, too." The boy in the movie, however, had a different take on it. He rolled his eyes heavenwards, and in a heartfelt shudder that came from his toes, he cried, "Thank-you, Hitler!" He wore woolen shorts in winter and a matching wool jacket and cap with brim. Sometimes a knitted balaclava. Mom wore frocks, knee length, with cardigans. They seemed cold a good deal, and did without a great deal in creature comforts. Their home in the country was snug and safe and warm, full of life, love, diversions, and fun, but of course the adults were often quite worried about their loved ones in the cities and the war, but they did not share this with the children. I wish I could remember the name of the movie for you, because your children would appreciate it. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Gerekr@aol.com Sent: Sunday, January 17, 1999 2:10 PM To: h-costume@indra.com; h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: WW II Help Kids clothing -Poster: Gerekr@aol.com On 1/15/99 11:35 AM you wrote: >-Poster: Melanie Wilson > >Has anyone any pictures of Children in Britain in World War 2 they could >scan and send me for my daughters school project ? > >Also any kids games & special memories of food ? > >Thanks > >Mel I just happen to have at home a book from the children's section of the public library called "After the war was over" by the illustrator Michael Foreman. It's his personal recollections of the period, mostly in watercolor but with a few photos thrown in, in which the children's or other clothing corresponds 100% to that in the illustrations... The point being that Mr Foreman has also written an "award-winning" book, titled "War Boy", which is about himself during the war years. If in the same style, that might be a good place to look for all three, clothes, games and food. I'm pretty sure both of these were published in GB first, as he still lives there, so that might be of some assistance, if you have time to collect them. About food, my library also has recently received "Food and Feasts Between the Wars", a children's series, no idea how available where you are, that might be pertinent; it would have factual reproductions mostly, vs. illustrations, as it follows the other titles in the series I've seen (F&F in the Middle ages, Ren, with the Vikings, Victorians, etc. as I recall). Based on Vikings and MA books, the text may not be 100%, but the illustrations are fine. Good luck, Chimene/Patsy ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 21:14:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA19832 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 21:14:43 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA13743; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 19:32:54 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA02898 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 19:22:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from postal.grin.net (root@postal.grin.net [209.104.220.39]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA02892 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 19:22:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from [208.202.191.26] (ppp-max1-26.grin.net [208.202.191.26]) by postal.grin.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA07299 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 18:22:48 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36A2916B.3F818410@bellsouth.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 18:26:50 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: lilinah@grin.net Subject: Re: H-COST: nightcaps Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: lilinah@grin.net Deborah Pulliam wrote: > -Men's nightcaps, until the 19th century, were *not* worn for sleeping (bed > caps were), they were fashionable "undress" which meant they were worn at > home in informal situations, especially if the wearer habitually wore a wig > (they were worn well into the 19c though, when wigs were no longer worn.) Renata McAdams responded: >What a fascinating piece of information! Did men during that period of >time, also >wear hats indoors (in addition to the fashion) because it was considered >improper >to expose the head? When you consider that most houses in the past had much poorer heating than we have in the Western world since the mid-century (a few fireplaces here and there, and bed-warming-pans), and considering that many wig-wearers had little head hair, it makes sense that men would wear a head-covering indoors, other reasons aside (such as "morality"). Renata McAdams continued: >Interesting how customs change. During the 1950s when I was a little girl and >until my dad passed away in 1980 (he was born in 1890), he (and other gents of >his era) always wore a hat outside, but it was considered rude and in poor >taste >if one did not remove the hat when coming inside a house or church. And, >tipping >one's hat to a woman in greeting was considered the norm. Customs often change, albeit sometimes reluctantly, as technology changes. Of course, women wore (and some still wear) hats in church, although i believe it is generally considered proper to take them off indoors otherwise, unless one is Hedda Hopper :-) Hats are often more a "fashion thing" nowadays, except when worn to protect one from the elements out-of-doors. Lilinah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 21:22:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA19912 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 21:22:19 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA14526; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 19:40:21 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA03731 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 19:30:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from sd.znet.com (sd.znet.com [207.167.64.5]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA03721 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 19:30:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.167.66.103] (sdts10-68.znet.net [207.167.66.68]) by sd.znet.com (8.9.2/8.9.2/jjb-sd) with ESMTP id SAA19796 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 18:30:12 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 18:30:12 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19990117.093243.3302.1.kiri5@juno.com> References: <199901171251.FAA04287@indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Julie Adams Subject: Re: H-COST: Elizabethan sites Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Julie Adams >Are there any Elizabethan or Renaissance sites out there? I have some 16th c German info on my site and other Cool 16th c links from the link at the bottom of the page. http://www.znet.com/~savaskan/germans/ Julie Adams _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 21:22:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA19914 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 21:22:20 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA14542; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 19:40:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA03753 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 19:30:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from sd.znet.com (sd.znet.com [207.167.64.5]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA03733 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 19:30:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.167.66.103] (sdts10-68.znet.net [207.167.66.68]) by sd.znet.com (8.9.2/8.9.2/jjb-sd) with ESMTP id SAA19804 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 18:30:16 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 18:30:16 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990114173301.00924970@mail.interlog.com> References: <006201be3f5a$b63cd880$6d63b5cf@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Julie Adams Subject: Re: H-COST: On the subject of children & puzzles Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Julie Adams >Isn't the outfit on Giovanni de Medici strange for a child? You can see leg! > >http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/b/bronzino/portrait/g_medici.jpg > >Cheers, >Danielle This kind of short doublet or even little waffenrocks seem to be pretty common in the early 16th c in Germany and Italy. In the summer most kids in that age group seem to run around in short sleeved white shirts about that length (what I'd call short tunic length) and not much else. Julie Adams _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 21:29:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA19962 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 21:29:22 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA15096; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 19:47:31 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA04364 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 19:37:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from wilma.widomaker.com (smtp@wilma.widomaker.com [204.17.220.5]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA04355 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 19:37:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.96.178.117] by wilma.widomaker.com with smtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for h-costume@indra.com id 1024Z8-0007Ir-00; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 21:37:23 -0500 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19990118023600.00723cd8@mail.widomaker.com> X-Sender: rcarnegie@mail.widomaker.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 21:36:00 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Ron Carnegie Subject: RE: H-COST: fort ross/ ethnic Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Ron Carnegie At 10:09 PM 1/16/99 -0500, you wrote: > >While doing a search on the Bookfinder web site for this (alas, they >don't have it), I came across another title that sounded like a >possibility - Early California Costumes 1769 - 1850 by Margaret >Gilbert MacKey and Louis Pinkney Sooy. Not having seen the >book, I likewise can't say if it covers Russian immigrant clothing. > > > There really was not a lot of Russian immigrant clothing to be seen at Ft Ross. Most of the women present were not Russians at all but Meti (as I recall). The Fort was built to gather otter skins, not to settle Russian California. Most of the real work at Fort Ross was done by these indians, including the hunting of the otters. There were women there, but they were mostly the indian wives of the indian and russian employees of the fort. I recall that at least one of the leaders of the Fort brought his Russian wife, but they Russian women were far and few between. (Regardless of this fact a number of female participants of Ft. Ross' living history day wear a russian peasent gown which has a name that I forget. Some of these re-enactors also wear standard european clothing. The Fort used to dress at about 1835, but I think they changed there year some few years ago. Cheers, Ron Carnegie rcarnegie@widomaker.com ************************************************* "The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground walked other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow." G.M. Trevelyan ************************************************* _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 21:47:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA20101 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 21:47:25 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA17011; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 20:05:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA05941 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 19:55:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from wilma.widomaker.com (smtp@wilma.widomaker.com [204.17.220.5]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA05934 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 19:55:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.96.178.117] by wilma.widomaker.com with smtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for h-costume@indra.com id 1024qe-00005b-00; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 21:55:28 -0500 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19990118025404.006cfe00@mail.widomaker.com> X-Sender: rcarnegie@mail.widomaker.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 21:54:04 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Ron Carnegie Subject: Re: H-COST: nightcaps Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Ron Carnegie At 08:42 PM 1/17/99 -0500, you wrote: > >-Poster: Renata McAdams > >What a fascinating piece of information! Did men during that period of time, also >wear hats indoors (in addition to the fashion) because it was considered improper >to expose the head? > >Interesting how customs change. During the 1950s when I was a little girl and >until my dad passed away in 1980 (he was born in 1890), he (and other gents of >his era) always wore a hat outside, but it was considered rude and in poor taste >if one did not remove the hat when coming inside a house or church. And, tipping >one's hat to a woman in greeting was considered the norm. > There was no social requirement to remove one's hat simply because one was indoors in the 18th Century. Several prints document this as well as the Minuet, which uses the hat as a prop. It was required that hats be removed in Church and Court, though, at least according to Virginia law Jews and Quakers were exempt from this activity in court, in light of their religious believes. Cheers, Ron Carnegie rcarnegie@widomaker.com ************************************************* "The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground walked other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow." G.M. Trevelyan ************************************************* _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 21:47:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA20105 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 21:47:44 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA17093; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 20:05:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA05989 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 19:55:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA05975 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 19:55:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (pilot [129.127.36.15]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id NAA32182 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 13:25:43 +1030 (CST) Received: by pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.61+IDA+MU/UA-5.23) id AA12077; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 13:25:41 +1030 Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 13:25:41 +1030 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant X-Sender: csmart@pilot To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: nightcaps In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Sun, 17 Jan 1999 lilinah@grin.net wrote: > > Renata McAdams responded: > >What a fascinating piece of information! Did men during that period of > >time, also > >wear hats indoors (in addition to the fashion) because it was considered > >improper > >to expose the head? > > When you consider that most houses in the past had much poorer heating than > we have in the Western world since the mid-century (a few fireplaces here > and there, and bed-warming-pans), and considering that many wig-wearers had > little head hair, it makes sense that men would wear a head-covering > indoors, other reasons aside (such as "morality"). You quite often see illuminations of mediaeval couples in bed wearing nothing but their hats. Sometimes they just have a bit of linen wrapped around their heads, sometimes full on fashionable headdresses. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 22:42:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA20389 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 22:42:53 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA23007; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 21:00:47 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA10608 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 20:50:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo23.mx.aol.com (imo23.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.67]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA10603 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 20:50:36 -0700 (MST) From: Gerekr@aol.com Received: from Gerekr@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id ILMVa07010 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 22:48:44 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 22:48:44 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: H-COST: A&E Unmentionables Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Claris Emailer v2.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Gerekr@aol.com So, the world skips directly from Rome to the 15th C.? Good thing we usually multi-task while the tube is on anyway. Chimene & Gerek disappointed but not surprised _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 22:50:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA20447 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 22:50:43 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA23803; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 21:08:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA11214 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 20:58:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA11209 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 20:58:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (pilot [129.127.36.15]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id OAA00606 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 14:28:36 +1030 (CST) Received: by pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.61+IDA+MU/UA-5.23) id AA12592; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 14:28:35 +1030 Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 14:28:34 +1030 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant X-Sender: csmart@pilot To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: A&E Unmentionables In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Sun, 17 Jan 1999 Gerekr@aol.com wrote: > > -Poster: Gerekr@aol.com > > So, the world skips directly from Rome to the 15th C.? Good thing we > usually multi-task while the tube is on anyway. Well it does in Italy anyway....few people seem interested in what happened there between Rome and the Renaissance *grin* ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 22:50:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA20451 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 22:50:51 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA23752; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 21:08:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA11195 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 20:58:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.68]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA11182 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 20:58:28 -0700 (MST) From: Seton1355@aol.com Received: from Seton1355@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id CSAa003482 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 22:57:42 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <70b16144.36a2b136@aol.com> Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 22:57:42 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: nightcaps Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 236 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Seton1355@aol.com >> You quite often see illuminations of mediaeval couples in bed wearing nothing but their hats>> Why do you think this was? Were they painted right after or before making love? It was too cold (most of the time) to hang about naked. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 22:56:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA20483 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 22:56:57 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA24286; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 21:15:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA11663 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 21:05:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net [199.45.39.156]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA11651 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 21:05:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from tymeportal.com (client-151-196-125-100.bellatlantic.net [151.196.125.100]) by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA22099 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 23:04:59 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36A2B2E0.575D817D@tymeportal.com> Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 23:04:48 -0500 From: Anah X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Joy Trim References: <199901161845.NAA16566@jefferson.patriot.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Anah I'm trying to find this place...Help? I kno it's in deleware, yet when I call to TRY and get a # I get "what city"? I have NO idea! My ignorance is showing here I'm afraid. Help? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 22:59:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA20496 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 22:59:16 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA24446; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 21:17:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA11832 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 21:07:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA11826 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 21:07:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (pilot [129.127.36.15]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id OAA00816 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 14:37:01 +1030 (CST) Received: by pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.61+IDA+MU/UA-5.23) id AA12660; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 14:37:01 +1030 Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 14:37:00 +1030 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant X-Sender: csmart@pilot To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: nightcaps In-Reply-To: <70b16144.36a2b136@aol.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Sun, 17 Jan 1999 Seton1355@aol.com wrote: > > -Poster: Seton1355@aol.com > > >> You quite often see illuminations of mediaeval couples in bed wearing > nothing but their hats>> > > Why do you think this was? Were they painted right after or before making > love? It was too cold (most of the time) to hang about naked. I don't know, though it mostly seems to be married couples so depicted. I've seen lovers drawn lying on a bed fully clothed. Also in the Museum of London Dress Accessories book (I think) there's a reproduction of a quite blatant drawing of two people making love behind a market stall. Both are fully clothed (apart from the necessary skirts up, pants down). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 23:25:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA20641 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 23:25:10 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA26544; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 21:43:28 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA13845 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 21:33:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA13838 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 21:33:15 -0700 (MST) From: PiranhaBB@aol.com Received: from PiranhaBB@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id XMYMa04796 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 23:32:36 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 23:32:36 EST To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: H-COST: Hope and Glory: WW II Movie Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Mac sub 85 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: PiranhaBB@aol.com Hope and Glory was a nice movie depiction of middle class England during WW II. Best regards, Lisa _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 23:36:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA20698 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 23:36:28 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA27591; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 21:54:57 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA14816 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 21:44:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.well.com (smtp.well.com [206.80.6.147]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA14783 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 21:44:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from mouse-s-box (spain-39.ppp.hooked.net [206.169.228.39]) by smtp.well.com (8.8.6/8.8.4) with SMTP id UAA13060 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 20:44:30 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901180444.UAA13060@smtp.well.com> X-Sender: mouse@mail.well.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 20:44:28 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lee Carter Subject: H-COST: WWII Help-- Kids Clothing Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lee Carter Another good movie is National Velvet and Mrs. Miniver. Shows what kids wore before and during the War. The modern remake of "Goodbye Mr. Chips" with Michael Caine and Petula Clark is very good in the clothing dept. Lee Carter _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 23:46:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA20754 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 23:46:18 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA28628; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 22:04:31 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA15494 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 21:54:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from send205.yahoomail.com (web301.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.183]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id VAA15486 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 21:54:16 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <19990118045438.5230.rocketmail@send205.yahoomail.com> Received: from [129.237.24.104] by web301.yahoomail.com; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 20:54:38 PST Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 20:54:38 -0800 (PST) From: Margretta de Vries Subject: Re: H-COST: Elizabethan sites To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margretta de Vries ---Julie Adams wrote: > I have some 16th c German info on my site and other > Cool 16th c links from the link at the bottom of the > page. > http://www.znet.com/~savaskan/germans/ Julie, Thanks so much for sharing this! The information you've compiled is amazing, and I highly recommend that anyone who hasn't gone there yet should definitely do so!!! == Margretta de Vries _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 01:33:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA22090 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 01:33:22 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA07465; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 23:50:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA22845 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 23:40:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp3.erols.com (smtp3.erols.com [207.172.3.236]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA22817; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 23:40:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from s0peladn (207-172-79-30.s30.tnt5.rcm.erols.com [207.172.79.30]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id BAA28048; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 01:40:10 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000101be42ad$748fa920$1e4faccf@s0peladn> From: "Penny E. Ladnier" To: "costume newsgroup" Subject: H-COST: Handbook of German Costume Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 01:40:27 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Penny E. Ladnier" I just gave a makeover to one of my websites, Handbuch der Deutschen Tracht (The Handbook of German Dress). It is located at http://www.costumegallery.com/germbook.htm This is a German historic costume book printed in 1892. I placed online costume images from 1200 - late 1800s (about 150 images). There are three main areas, the color plates, hair & headdress (my favorite), and poor people. The enlargement links are all functional. Many of the enlargements are grainy but I do not intend to re-scan them until this summer. This book was one of my first big projects when I began my website in 1995. I have learned a lot since first scanning these images. But the site is fun to learn from. Later...Penny http://www.costumegallery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 01:33:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA22094 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 01:33:27 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA07599; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 23:51:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA22924 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 23:41:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA22912 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 23:41:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.152] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 1028Mx-0003Ui-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 22:41:04 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990117152006.00be0500@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19990117152006.00be0500@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 15:25:31 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: undergarments In-Reply-To: <19990117193932.7619.rocketmail@send103.yahoomail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows I >also have a Vogue bustier pattern (9273 - I think it is still current) >and view B has fitted cups on it with an integrated strap (no seam >attachment to the top of the cup) that I am going to alter (shorten) >and turn into a bra pattern. I got that pattern from Vogue, then spent over an hour re-fitting it. The cups are too close together AND too small. My fitter and I had to redesign as we went. >There are patterns available out there for making your own bras, >panties, and other lingeree. All in my teenager's size... Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 01:33:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA22098 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 01:33:28 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA07605; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 23:51:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA22928 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 23:41:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA22918 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 23:41:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.152] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 1028Mz-0003Ui-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 22:41:05 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990117152650.00bda2e0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 15:43:11 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: H-COST: corset/bra support idea Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows A friend of mine, who is similarly built and also makes Victorian corsets, suggested using a solid bone in the center front of a corset/bra garment instead of underwires. She was talking about the large kind of bone you can salvage out of those leg braces you can sometimes find in thrift stores. It would be like the 1700's/early 1800's solid busks instead of like the later 1800's front-opening ones. The busk idea ought to work. The anatomy would be supported from the center like a suspension bridge is supported. It would be still necessary to bone the sides and back to prevent wrinkling, but that's OK with me. It might need straps to keep it from shifting, but not seriously load-bearing ones. I think I'd also want to put a hook placket where I could reach it from the front, so I could get in and out by myself. Maybe on the side somewhere? Anybody got any opinions on this idea? Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 01:33:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA22102 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 01:33:34 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA07603; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 23:51:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA22923 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 23:41:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA22906 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 23:41:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.152] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 1028Mw-0003Ui-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 22:41:02 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990117150709.00bc9880@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 15:17:31 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: cartridge pleats In-Reply-To: <001601be425f$39f2eaa0$6a41cfcf@gia-g> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >... I knew that in order for me >to get the 'full' pleating effect I wanted, I had to hand stitch it. This >of course is only my opnion and others may not agree; that's ok... How can one do cartridge-pleating on a home sewing machine? My presser foot doesn't lift high enough to allow it. And even if I removed the presser foot to get more clearance, the machine would choke on the thickness. (It was bad enough when I felled the seams on my tent.) Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 02:13:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA22301 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 02:13:40 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id AAA10973; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 00:31:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id AAA25299 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 00:20:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.37]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id AAA25294 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 00:20:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from LOCALNAME ([12.66.2.132]) by mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP id <19990118072011.FCP16779@LOCALNAME> for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 07:20:11 +0000 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Connie Carroll" Organization: Home For Deranged Bunnies To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 02:18:24 +0000 Subject: Re: H-COST: A&E Unmentionables Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.30) Message-Id: <19990118072011.FCP16779@LOCALNAME> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Connie Carroll" > > So, the world skips directly from Rome to the 15th C.? Good thing > > we usually multi-task while the tube is on anyway. > > Well it does in Italy anyway....few people seem interested in what > happened there between Rome and the Renaissance *grin* This was an interesting show but it has a lot of gaps.Also errors. The main one that comes to mind was when they talked about the bra that Jane Russell wore for The OutLaw. A&E had just run thier biograpghy show on Jane Russel where it told about Howard Hughs designing an airo-dynamic bra for Russell but she didn't like it. She didn't wear it and never told Hughs so aparently couldn't tell the difference. That was funny. Kassandra NickKraken JUST CALL ME MISTRESS BUNNY _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 02:28:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA22374 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 02:28:11 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id AAA11899; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 00:46:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id AAA26016 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 00:36:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id AAA26006 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 00:36:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.161] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 1029EO-0004L6-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 23:36:17 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990117232128.00bd8940@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 23:33:18 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: H-COST: fort ross/ ethnic In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19990118023600.00723cd8@mail.widomaker.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows (Regardless of this fact a number of female >participants of Ft. Ross' living history day wear a russian peasent gown >which has a name that I forget. Sarafan is the name of the dress. It looks like an armpit-high skirt with shoulder straps, and a buttoned front closure all the way down. It is cleverly made from a large half circle, and it looks cone-shaped when worn. My copy of Tilke has one. The head scarf thing we now call a babushka (I don't remember the name for it) is usually worn over another thing sort of like a cap. This 'cap' is sometimes large and uncaplike, and encrusted with seed pearls in extreme cases of peasant wealth. The name I have for the 'cap' is kokochnik, tho I think there are many other names for it as the shape varies. This only applies for Russian peasants living in Russia. I don't know what they really wear at Ft. Ross because I have never played there. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 02:50:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA22546 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 02:50:34 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id BAA12874; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 01:08:58 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id AAA26901 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 00:58:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f262.hotmail.com [207.82.251.153]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id AAA26896 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 00:58:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 21746 invoked by uid 0); 18 Jan 1999 07:51:16 -0000 Message-ID: <19990118075116.21745.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 205.161.179.206 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 23:51:16 PST X-Originating-IP: [205.161.179.206] From: "karrissa david" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: H-COST: fort ross/ ethnic Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 02:51:16 EST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "karrissa david" >The head scarf thing we now call a babushka That is wierd. I was taught that Babushka means grandmother. Karrissa ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 03:31:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA28426 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 03:31:24 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id BAA14247; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 01:50:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id BAA28750 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 01:39:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail-gw2.pacbell.net (mail-gw2.pacbell.net [206.13.28.53]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id BAA28722 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 01:39:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-68-25.irvn11.pacbell.net [206.170.68.25]) by mail-gw2.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with ESMTP id AAA11578 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 00:39:51 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36A28415.1526FEA0@pacbell.net> Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 00:45:09 +0000 From: Dietmar Organization: Completely Disorganized X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-PBI-NC404 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Tea Darkening References: <199901161916.OAA18940@jefferson.patriot.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Dietmar Greetings, I found some wonderful raw silk in a bright yellow and I'd like to darken it to a golden color. I'm not a tea drinker, but coffee is always at hand. Is coffee an acceptable substitute for tea darkening? Do I need to add salt as a mordant? Should I use a vinegar bath to set the color afterward? Thank you in advance, Dietmar "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 03:33:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA28436 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 03:33:47 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id BAA14322; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 01:52:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id BAA28861 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 01:42:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id BAA28854 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 01:42:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.189] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 102AG3-00054v-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 00:42:03 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990118003559.00bd53e0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 00:41:55 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: H-COST: fort ross/ ethnic In-Reply-To: <19990118075116.21745.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > >>The head scarf thing we now call a babushka > > >That is wierd. I was taught that Babushka means grandmother. It does. We now call that scarf by that name because after a while it became associated with grandmothers. By the 1950's almost nobody else wore them. The scarf thing's real name is something else. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 03:46:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA28523 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 03:46:32 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id CAA15292; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 02:05:28 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id BAA29589 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 01:54:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from scorpion.netspace.net.au (scorpion.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.106]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id BAA29577 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 01:54:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from whirlwind.netspace.net.au (whirlwind.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.70]) by scorpion.netspace.net.au (8.9.1/8.9.1/NS) with ESMTP id TAA25252 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 19:54:59 +1100 (EST) Received: from netspace.net.au.netspace.net.au (dialup-t2-80.Melbourne.netspace.net.au [210.15.192.80]) by whirlwind.netspace.net.au (8.9.1/8.9.1/NS) with ESMTP id TAA12055 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 19:55:05 +1100 (EST) Message-Id: <199901180855.TAA12055@whirlwind.netspace.net.au> From: "Christopher Ballis" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Tea Darkening Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 20:02:26 +1100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Christopher Ballis" Hey, list, On the subject of colouring with coffee... An old friend was a navy officer stationed in Darwin (northern Australia) during the early years of the war in the Pacific. When Darwin was bombed it was realised that the sailors needed something other than their whites so they would be harder to see. Seeing that new clothing would be some time in coming, my friend tells me that he and his fellow were ordered to boil their clothes in coffee. So, the answer is, yes. As an aside, I used the coffee suggestion to take the sting out of some fabric for a monk's robe some years back and it worked well (I spooned a whole heap of it into my big old washing machine and ran it through a very hot cycle...I guess you could boil on the stove or in a copper (a boiling drum, not a policeman). I used salt afterwards but, having no non-salt test, cannot say whether it really aided the process - can't hurt, though. -C. > Is coffee an acceptable substitute for tea darkening? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 04:04:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA28629 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 04:04:41 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id CAA16127; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 02:23:29 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id CAA00538 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 02:12:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id CAA00533 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 02:12:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.189] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 102Ajm-0005Mf-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 01:12:47 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990118011025.00bd2df0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 01:12:37 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Tea Darkening In-Reply-To: <36A28415.1526FEA0@pacbell.net> References: <199901161916.OAA18940@jefferson.patriot.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >I found some wonderful raw silk in a bright yellow and I'd like to darken it >to a golden color. I'm not a tea drinker, but coffee is always at hand. > >Is coffee an acceptable substitute for tea darkening? I am told that caffeine free tea is better, as it is better for the cloth (no acid). I would therefore recommend caffeine free coffee, it having no other use IMHO. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 07:06:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA29514 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 07:06:23 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id FAA21010; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 05:25:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id FAA04631 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 05:14:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from m4.boston.juno.com (m4.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.198]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id FAA04626 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 05:14:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from alysea@juno.com) by m4.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id DY9BQ9G5; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 07:14:21 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 07:15:02 -0500 Subject: Re: H-COST: Tea Darkening Message-ID: <19990118.071537.3678.1.Alysea@juno.com> References: <199901161916.OAA18940@jefferson.patriot.net> <4.1.19990118011025.00bd2df0@pop.slip.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-4,6-36 From: alysea@juno.com (Karen J Farris) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: alysea@juno.com (Karen J Farris) It also depends on the color you are trying to achieve. Tea will have pink overtones, coffee more yellow. I use coffee more than tea. Karen Farris On Mon, 18 Jan 1999 01:12:37 -0800 Carolyn Kayta Barrows writes: > >-Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > > >>I found some wonderful raw silk in a bright yellow and I'd like to >darken it >>to a golden color. I'm not a tea drinker, but coffee is always at >hand. >> >>Is coffee an acceptable substitute for tea darkening? > >I am told that caffeine free tea is better, as it is better for the >cloth >(no acid). I would therefore recommend caffeine free coffee, it >having no >other use IMHO. > > >Kayta > ////.\\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ((( > | -- )))) > * ) ((((( > /----\ /---\ > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 07:43:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA29726 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 07:43:06 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id GAA23198; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 06:02:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id FAA06465 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 05:51:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from send501.yahoomail.com (web502.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.69]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id FAA06459 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 05:51:26 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <19990118125148.18632.rocketmail@send501.yahoomail.com> Received: from [209.151.109.17] by web502.yahoomail.com; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 04:51:48 PST Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 04:51:48 -0800 (PST) From: Calvin Girvin Subject: H-COST: Benedictine Habit To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Calvin Girvin I am searching for information on constructing an authentic Benedictine monastic habit as commonly worn by monks in Northern Europe during the nineteenth century. Any information you can direct me to will be greatly appreciated. Cal _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 08:19:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA29923 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 08:19:30 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id GAA24662; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 06:38:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id GAA08587 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 06:27:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.19]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id GAA08580 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 06:27:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.23.187 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 05:27:16 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: H-COST: Hope and Glory: WW II Movie Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 08:13:57 -0500 Message-ID: <000001be42e6$e270b0e0$bb17ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Thanks, Lisa, this was the movie I was thinking of. I described the scene where the little boy cries "Thank you, Hitler!" to my 9-year-old, and it was something he could really relate to! Off to the video store to rent it now! Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of PiranhaBB@aol.com Sent: Sunday, January 17, 1999 11:33 PM To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Hope and Glory: WW II Movie -Poster: PiranhaBB@aol.com Hope and Glory was a nice movie depiction of middle class England during WW II. Best regards, Lisa ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 08:29:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA29973 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 08:29:14 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id GAA25207; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 06:48:40 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id GAA09294 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 06:37:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.30]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id GAA09289 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 06:37:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.20.137 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 05:36:59 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: W.W.II Help-- Kids Clothing Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 08:40:15 -0500 Message-ID: <000201be42e8$3eefc760$bb17ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 In-Reply-To: <199901180444.UAA13060@smtp.well.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" I saw National Velvet, and it is terrific for this. Haven't seen Mrs. Miniver, but I understand it is also a classic. Try a search on http://www.metacrawler.com, the search engine which combines several search engines, for these movies, children in W.W.II, etc. Your local library may have magazines and newspapers in their stacks or on microfilm dating back to the W.W.II years, and these would be very interesting for your children. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Lee Carter Sent: Sunday, January 17, 1999 11:44 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: WWII Help-- Kids Clothing -Poster: Lee Carter Another good movie is National Velvet and Mrs. Miniver. Shows what kids wore before and during the War. The modern remake of "Goodbye Mr. Chips" with Michael Caine and Petula Clark is very good in the clothing dept. Lee Carter ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 08:48:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA30081 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 08:48:21 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA26211; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 07:07:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id GAA10336 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 06:56:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.85]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id GAA10330 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 06:56:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip192.denver8.co.pub-ip.psi.net [38.31.4.192]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA18821 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 05:56:40 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36A33E8E.4DC04A44@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 07:00:46 -0700 From: Mary Denise Smith Organization: Costume & Dressmaker Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Benedictine Habit References: <19990118125148.18632.rocketmail@send501.yahoomail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Mary Denise Smith I would contact you nearest Benedictine convent or abbey. Call your diocesan office and ask where they are. When I was in high school in Los Angeles in the '60s, the Mother Superior of my convent school was the consultant for the Benedictine habits worn in the movie version of The Sound of Music. Of course, all this presumes you are doing honest, scholarly work and not making some Grade B film of "Lusty Nuns". Mary Denise Smith _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 08:54:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA30115 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 08:54:11 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA26591; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 07:13:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA10702 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 07:02:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from monsoon.dial.pipex.net (monsoon.dial.pipex.net [158.43.128.69]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id HAA10694 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 07:02:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 12372 invoked from network); 18 Jan 1999 14:00:23 -0000 Received: from userb194.uk.uudial.com (HELO ) (193.149.71.177) by smtp.dial.pipex.com with SMTP; 18 Jan 1999 14:00:23 -0000 Message-ID: <36A3AD66.2B56@dial.pipex.com> Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 13:53:42 -0800 From: Viv Watkins X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Wayward Women Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Viv Watkins I have just come across a review in the current 'Times Literary Supplement', of a book called "Ladies Errant: Wayward women and social order in early modern Italy" by Deanna Shemek. It discusses social attitudes to various non-conformist women in Rennaisance Italy and, includes a couple of chapters on prostitutes. The review does not mention costume but it might be worth a look. It is an American publication - Drake University Press, and Amazon have the paperback at 18 dollars - it is as much in pounds in England! Your books are so much cheaper than ours - sigh! The ISBN is 0 8223 2167X. If anyone does read it - please let us have a proper costume-related review! Best wishes. Viv. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 09:28:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA30294 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 09:28:26 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA29454; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 07:47:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA13756 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 07:36:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.38]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA13746 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 07:36:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from LOCALNAME ([12.66.2.149]) by mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP id <19990118143558.FJQD23534@LOCALNAME> for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 14:35:58 +0000 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Connie Carroll" Organization: Home For Deranged Bunnies To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 09:34:10 +0000 Subject: Re: H-COST: Tea Darkening Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.30) Message-Id: <19990118143558.FJQD23534@LOCALNAME> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Connie Carroll" I'm sure I read somewhere that coloring fabric with tea/coffee would age the fabric more plus make the fabric more susceptible to damage Kassandra NickKraken > -Poster: alysea@juno.com (Karen J Farris) > > It also depends on the color you are trying to achieve. Tea will > have pink overtones, coffee more yellow. I use coffee more than tea. > > Karen Farris > > On Mon, 18 Jan 1999 01:12:37 -0800 Carolyn Kayta Barrows > writes: > >-Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > > > >>I found some wonderful raw silk in a bright > yellow and I'd like to >darken it >>to a golden color. I'm not a > tea drinker, but coffee is always at >hand. >> >>Is coffee an > acceptable substitute for tea darkening? > >I am told that caffeine > free tea is better, as it is better for the >cloth >(no acid). I > would therefore recommend caffeine free coffee, it >having no >other > use IMHO. > > >Kayta > ////.\\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ((( > > | -- )))) > * ) ((((( > /----\ /---\ > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with > the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at > http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO > [654-5866] > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with > the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME JUST CALL ME MISTRESS BUNNY _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 09:36:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA30342 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 09:36:46 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA00432; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 07:55:28 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA14625 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 07:44:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA14615 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 07:44:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip157.an1-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.12.157]) by goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA20119 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 06:44:07 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36A33B5B.382B6694@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 09:47:08 -0400 From: Laurel Wilson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03C-NSCP (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: A&E Unmentionables References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Laurel Wilson I have to admit that I couldn't watch more than about the first five minutes of this: after they'd referred three different times to underclothing being fetishized in the Victorian era and shown eighteenth-century illustrations each time, I turned it off. Do I gather from your comments that it didn't get better? Lauri _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 09:41:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA30369 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 09:41:30 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA01186; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 08:01:02 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA15323 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 07:49:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA15316 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 07:49:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip157.an1-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.12.157]) by goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA23779 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 06:49:41 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36A33CAA.B9E357D@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 09:52:43 -0400 From: Laurel Wilson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03C-NSCP (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: fort ross/ ethnic References: <19990118075116.21745.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Laurel Wilson karrissa david wrote: > > > >The head scarf thing we now call a babushka > > That is wierd. I was taught that Babushka means grandmother. > > My understanding is that it's used for both, presumably since older women were more likely to wear that style of head scarf. Lauri _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 10:06:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA30531 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 10:06:19 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA03137; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 08:25:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA18107 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 08:14:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.texoma.net (vmailer@mail.texoma.net [209.151.96.3]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA18089 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 08:14:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from cal (ppp-151-100-076.texoma.net [209.151.100.76]) by mail.texoma.net (Postfix) with SMTP id DECECD437F; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 09:14:21 -0600 (CST) From: "Cal Girvin" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Benedictine Habit Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 09:19:19 -0600 Message-ID: <001201be42f5$ec878e00$0400a8c0@cal> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 In-Reply-To: <36A33E8E.4DC04A44@earthlink.net> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Cal Girvin" Mary Denise, thank you for your assistance. Cal > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Mary Denise Smith > Sent: Monday, January 18, 1999 8:01 AM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: Benedictine Habit > > > > -Poster: Mary Denise Smith > > I would contact you nearest Benedictine convent or abbey. Call > your diocesan office and ask where > they are. > > When I was in high school in Los Angeles in the '60s, the Mother > Superior of my convent school was > the consultant for the Benedictine habits worn in the movie > version of The Sound of Music. > > Of course, all this presumes you are doing honest, scholarly work > and not making some Grade B film > of "Lusty Nuns". > > Mary Denise Smith > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 10:17:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA30601 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 10:17:56 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA04342; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 08:37:35 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA19601 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 08:26:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from fw2.roguewave.com (firewall-user@fw2.roguewave.com [208.151.233.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA19596 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 08:26:11 -0700 (MST) Received: by fw2.roguewave.com; id HAA25662; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 07:21:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from cvo1.cvo.roguewave.com(10.68.4.36) via SMTP by net.indra.com, id smtpd025659; Mon Jan 18 07:21:38 1999 Received: by cvo1.cvo.roguewave.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 07:27:07 -0800 Message-ID: From: Betsy Perry To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: A&E Unmentionables Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 07:27:00 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Betsy Perry > Do I > gather from your comments that it didn't get better? > Lauri It didn't. After 20 minutes of shouting at the TV set, I turned it off. You missed the wonderful corset collage -- discussing 16th-century corsets while cross-cutting between 18th-century and 19th-century corsets. Oh, and they propagated the iron-corset-as-everyday-wear myth, too. My husband commented, "This is the most content-free TV I've ever seen." It was very obviously a pretext to run modern girlie photographs. (How _do_ they airbrush the nipples out of video images?) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 10:23:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA30631 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 10:23:46 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA04949; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 08:43:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA20349 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 08:32:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from svpal.svpal.org (suetoo@svpal.svpal.org [204.118.32.56]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA20344; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 08:32:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (suetoo@localhost) by svpal.svpal.org (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id HAA09114; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 07:30:22 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 07:30:22 -0800 (PST) From: Sue Toorans To: h-costume@indra.com cc: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Wintersilks In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990117073922.007a7100@onramp.i2k.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sue Toorans On Sun, 17 Jan 1999, Lynn Carpenter wrote: > > -Poster: Lynn Carpenter > > "Matt Dragonfly Drury" wrote: > > > >>You can mail order silk underwear, both men's and women's, from > >>Wintersilks, > > > > > >Satisfied customer as well. Our order was lost days before we were going up > >to DC from Orlando (brr), and they shipped a replacement with enough time > >for us to enjoy them. > > Has anyone dealt with them recently? I did an Altavista search to find the I have. And they just sent me another catalog within the last couple of weeks. > URL > http://www.wintersilks.com/ > and the second article was this one, which said they were filing for > Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection. The article is dated August 6, 1988. > http://www.mediacentral.com/Magazines/CatalogAge/Weekly/98/1998080602.htm > > Anyone know if they have their finances straightened out? > > Lynn > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > Sue I am *NOT* a rabid feminist! I had my shots last year. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 10:45:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA30764 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 10:45:34 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA07156; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 09:05:00 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA23423 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 08:53:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from pop.idsi.net (root@pop.idsi.net [208.195.228.22]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA23402 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 08:53:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from chanty (16-ta06wf.idsi.net [208.201.30.150]) by pop.idsi.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id KAA14581 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 10:53:20 -0500 Message-Id: <4.1.19990118105246.009227a0@pop.idsi.net> X-Sender: chanty@pop.idsi.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 10:54:45 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Chantal Pecourt Subject: RE: H-COST: A&E Unmentionables In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Chantal Pecourt I agree It was the most content free tv show I have seen in a long time. I was rather dissapointed.I had expected more of the history and evolution of underware from early middle ages through today, but alas, it was not so. Perhaps the TV execs thought we would not be able to pay attention to something like that :-) > (How >_do_ they airbrush the nipples out of video images?) I was wondering the same thing!!! Chantal _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 11:05:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA30870 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 11:05:25 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA10080; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 09:25:07 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA26614 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 09:13:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from isis.netherworld.com (isis.Netherworld.COM [199.165.233.10]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA26593 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 09:13:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost by isis.netherworld.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA17761 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 09:05:14 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 09:05:12 -0700 (MST) From: Sylvia Rognstad To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Joy Trim In-Reply-To: <36A2B2E0.575D817D@tymeportal.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sylvia Rognstad > > -Poster: Anah > > I'm trying to find this place...Help? I kno it's in deleware, yet when > I call to TRY and get a # I get "what city"? > You dont mean JAy Trims in NY, by any chance, do you? Sylvia _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 11:11:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA30900 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 11:11:23 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA11032; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 09:31:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA27643 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 09:19:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net [199.45.39.156]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA27614 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 09:19:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from tymeportal.com (client-151-196-125-86.bellatlantic.net [151.196.125.86]) by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA16851 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 11:19:31 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36A35F0C.52464AB5@tymeportal.com> Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 11:19:24 -0500 From: Anah X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Joy Trim References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Anah no, Joy trim in Delaware, but I kept getting asked "what city" I couldn't tell them. but, it's at 212 west 9th Street in Wilmington DE the phone # is 302-654-4108 also, I was given another way to find things, so that helped immensely. www.switchboard.com Sylvia Rognstad wrote: > > -Poster: Anah > > > > I'm trying to find this place...Help? I kno it's in deleware, yet when > > I call to TRY and get a # I get "what city"? > > > You dont mean JAy Trims in NY, by any chance, do you? > > Sylvia _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 11:23:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA30967 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 11:23:37 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA12538; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 09:43:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA29645 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 09:31:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from ash.shu.ac.uk (pp@ash.shu.ac.uk [143.52.2.10]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA29616 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 09:31:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from ntlupus.shu.ac.uk by ash.shu.ac.uk with inbound ESMTP (local); Mon, 18 Jan 1999 16:31:33 +0000 Received: by ntlupus.shu.ac.uk with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) id <01BE4300.09A5E2C0@ntlupus.shu.ac.uk>; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 16:31:45 -0000 Message-ID: From: "Chandler, Sally" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: H-COST: Silk Cords Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 16:34:35 -0000 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 Encoding: 9 TEXT Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Chandler, Sally" I want to make some silk cords and braids for the 15th century. I have no problem getting hold of the silk but don't know whether I should get the shiny, smooth sort or the softer looking, slightly fluffy sort. Does anyone know what is authentic for the period? Many thanks, Sally Ann _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 11:42:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA31087 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 11:42:23 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA14163; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 10:02:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA02524 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 09:50:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA02500 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 09:50:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p22.directcon.net [206.170.184.71]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA05287 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 08:45:53 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 08:45:53 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901181645.IAA05287@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: WW II Help Kids clothing Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson At 09:18 PM 1/17/99 -0500, you wrote: > >-Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" > >There's a terrific movie, made about 7 years back, on this >subject, but darned if I can remember the name of it. "Hope and Glory". Yes, it's a fabulous movie! Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 12:26:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA31363 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:26:38 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA19111; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 10:46:19 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA09911 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 10:34:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from crow.prod.itd.earthlink.net (crow.prod.itd.earthlink.net [209.178.63.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA09887 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 10:34:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from alt1 (sdn-ar-001dcwashP117.dialsprint.net [168.191.20.77]) by crow.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA01883 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 09:34:34 -0800 (PST) From: "Allison Thurman" To: Subject: H-COST: A&E unmentionables Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:37:00 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2212 (4.71.2419.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.0810.800 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Allison Thurman" i agree that the show is not all it could be - my biggest peeve is that it showed too much modern stuff, and besides the roman/15th c. gap, little was discussed about what wwI era women wore if they werent wearing steel. but what can you expect in 2 hours? i did like that they covered the marketing aspects, and with tv you do get to see how some of the more complicated items moved in situ. a decent try, imho. personally im pleased that a&e networks finally did a show about costume. im a frequent watcher of a&e and the history channel and this is the first time ive seen ANYTHING about it - history of guns, warfare, toys, holidays, food....but not clothing. i actually sent them a feedback email asking for more of the same! did anyone get this on tape? my vcr somehow taped static. please email me privately if you did, id like a copy! if anyone else wants to email a&e with commendations/gripes, the url is: http://www.4cities.com/cgi-perl/rfr.cgi?l=http://www.aetv.com/index2.html allison p.s. elizabeth I (or anyone else) DIDNT really wear iron corsets did they? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 12:47:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA31479 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:47:20 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA23257; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 11:07:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA16158 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 10:55:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA16142 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 10:55:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.251] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 102ItL-0003Gi-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 09:55:12 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990118094316.00bd3580@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 09:45:21 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Benedictine Habit In-Reply-To: <19990118125148.18632.rocketmail@send501.yahoomail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >I am searching for information on constructing an authentic >Benedictine monastic habit as commonly worn by monks in Northern >Europe during the nineteenth century. Any information you can direct >me to will be greatly appreciated. I think there are still Benedictines you could contact. They'd know all about that. See if they have a web site. Many cloistered 20th-century monks do these days, especially the ones who engage in e-commerce. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 12:47:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA31483 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:47:33 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA23289; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 11:07:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA16182 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 10:55:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA16161 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 10:55:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.251] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 102ItP-0003Gi-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 09:55:15 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990118094758.00bd2720@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 09:48:33 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Tea Darkening In-Reply-To: <19990118143558.FJQD23534@LOCALNAME> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >I'm sure I read somewhere that coloring fabric with tea/coffee would >age the fabric more plus make the fabric more susceptible to damage That's why I heard to use caffeine-free tea/coffee. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 12:48:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA31490 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:48:16 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA23274; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 11:07:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA16175 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 10:55:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA16151 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 10:55:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.251] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 102ItN-0003Gi-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 09:55:14 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990118094646.00bdeea0@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19990118094646.00bdeea0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 09:51:47 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Wayward Women In-Reply-To: <36A3AD66.2B56@dial.pipex.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows it is as much in pounds in England! Your books are so much >cheaper than ours - sigh! Yes, but your books are not as cheap to us as to you - sigh from this side of 'the Pond'. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 13:59:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA31898 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 13:59:40 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA04167; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:19:14 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA29283 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:07:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from postal.grin.net (root@postal.grin.net [209.104.220.39]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA29267 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:07:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from [208.202.189.142] (ppp-142.pm4-1.grin.net [208.202.189.142]) by postal.grin.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA25706 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 11:07:26 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 11:11:29 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: lilinah@grin.net Subject: RE: H-COST: A&E Unmentionables Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: lilinah@grin.net Betsy Perry queried: >How _do_ they airbrush the nipples out of video images? Same way they colorize videos. Computer technology is quite versatile. There are special set-ups for altering videos. No need to resort to hand-tools like air-brushes. Or to painting on film, the way the Melies brothers hand-colored all their films from the 1890's (such as "A Trip to the Moon"). A healthy dose of tightly corseted, scantily clad dancing girls in these, among the very first movies. Lilinah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 14:04:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA31930 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 14:04:29 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA04735; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:24:19 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA00342 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:12:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.staffing.net (mail.staffing.net [204.248.205.117]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA00315 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:12:34 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail.staffing.net from localhost (router,SLMail V3.1); Mon, 18 Jan 1999 14:17:37 -0500 Received: by mail.staffing.net from kerryc [205.140.240.51] (SLmail 3.1.2948 (Release Build)); Mon, 18 Jan 1999 14:17:36 -0500 From: "Kerry Cotter" To: Subject: H-COST: RE: kakofnitch Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 14:12:25 -0500 Message-ID: <000601be4316$7be26a50$33f08ccd@kerryc.Net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-7" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Kerry Cotter" Can anyone tell me what the above referenced word is? I know it's a coostuming term. Thanks. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 14:20:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA32024 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 14:20:49 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA07027; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:40:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA03707 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:28:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id MAA03557 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:27:45 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:27:45 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 9972 invoked from network); 18 Jan 1999 19:23:17 -0000 Received: from 236.240.3-2.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (207.183.240.236) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 18 Jan 1999 19:23:17 -0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19990118112737.2acf7990@mail2.quiknet.com> X-Sender: joanj@mail2.quiknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: RE: H-COST: fort ross/ ethnic Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Joan M Jurancich At 02:51 AM 01/18/1999 EST, karrissa david wrote: > >-Poster: "karrissa david" > >>The head scarf thing we now call a babushka > > >That is wierd. I was taught that Babushka means grandmother. > >Karrissa Actually, the babushka is the head scarf. It came to mean "grandmother" because it was worn mostly by older women after the fashion had changed. Of course, I seem to have buried my Russian language texts the last time I rearranged my bookshelves ... and it's been far too long since I studied the language to dredge up the proper word for "grandmother" from depths of my memory . The formal word for "mother" is "matya" (IIRC), but "grandmother" still escapes me. Joan Jurancich Sacramento, CA joanj@quiknet.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 14:26:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA32054 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 14:26:31 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA07919; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:46:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA05086 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:34:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id MAA05056 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:34:21 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:34:21 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 11982 invoked from network); 18 Jan 1999 19:29:55 -0000 Received: from 236.240.3-2.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (207.183.240.236) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 18 Jan 1999 19:29:55 -0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19990118113415.2acf5940@mail2.quiknet.com> X-Sender: joanj@mail2.quiknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: Re: H-COST: Silk Cords Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Joan M Jurancich At 04:34 PM 01/18/1999 -0000, Chandler, Sally wrote: > >-Poster: "Chandler, Sally" > >I want to make some silk cords and braids for the 15th century. I have no >problem getting hold of the silk but don't know whether I should get the >shiny, smooth sort or the softer looking, slightly fluffy sort. Does >anyone know what is authentic for the period? > >Many thanks, > >Sally Ann Go for the smooth, shiny silk. The soft, fluffy stuff won't hold up and isn't appropriate anyway. Joan Jurancich aka Lady Dorothy (Hastings) Devereux [RPFN], mother [in-law] to Lady Essex joanj@quiknet.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 15:19:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA32367 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 15:19:37 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA15289; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 13:39:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA19910 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 13:27:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.mc.net (mail.mc.net [209.172.128.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id NAA19877 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 13:27:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 6082 invoked from network); 18 Jan 1999 20:28:49 -0000 Received: from tntmodem2-9.mc.net (HELO HEATHERL) (209.172.134.9) by mail.mc.net with SMTP; 18 Jan 1999 20:28:49 -0000 Message-ID: <36A3BD6E.75B6@mc.net> Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 15:02:07 -0800 From: Heather Law Organization: Interstellar Trading Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: Joy Trim References: <199901180641.XAA22956@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Rating: mail.mc.net 1.6.1 0/1000/N Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Heather Law Anah, Found this with a Netscape Yellow Pages search -- no email addy, doesn't look like they have a website. Joy Trimming Corporation 212 W 9th St Wilmington, DE 19801-1620 Phone: 302-654-4108 Hope it's the one you're looking for, Heather _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 15:25:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA32421 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 15:25:48 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA16176; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 13:45:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA21724 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 13:33:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA21657 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 13:33:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p26.directcon.net [206.170.184.75]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA02126 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:28:52 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:28:52 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901182028.MAA02126@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: nightcaps Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson At 02:37 PM 1/18/99 +1030, you wrote: > >-Poster: The Purple Elephant > >On Sun, 17 Jan 1999 Seton1355@aol.com wrote: > >> >> -Poster: Seton1355@aol.com >> >> >> You quite often see illuminations of mediaeval couples in bed wearing >> nothing but their hats>> >> >> Why do you think this was? Were they painted right after or before making >> love? It was too cold (most of the time) to hang about naked. I once lived in an "apartment" that was basically a converted toolshed, in South Lake Tahoe, CA, (i.e, a very cold climate). The bedroom was completely unheated and uninsulated, to the point where a glass of water left on the nightstand would freeze solid overnight. My partner and I found that we were warmest sleeping under many blankets, but naked except for wooly hats. I seem to have blocked out how we handled getting out of bed and dashing through the breezeway (!) to the bathroom. I suppose being young and in love helped. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 15:29:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA32442 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 15:29:54 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA16820; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 13:49:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA22515 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 13:37:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from send501.yahoomail.com (wen505.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.72]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id NAA22490 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 13:37:51 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <19990118203804.19996.rocketmail@send501.yahoomail.com> Received: from [209.151.96.69] by web505.yahoomail.com; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:38:04 PST Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:38:04 -0800 (PST) From: Calvin Girvin Subject: Re: H-COST: Benedictine Habit To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Calvin Girvin Kayta, thank you for your suggestion. I appreciate your help. Cal ---Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > > -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > > > >I am searching for information on constructing an authentic > >Benedictine monastic habit as commonly worn by monks in Northern > >Europe during the nineteenth century. Any information you can direct > >me to will be greatly appreciated. > > I think there are still Benedictines you could contact. They'd know all > about that. See if they have a web site. Many cloistered 20th-century > monks do these days, especially the ones who engage in e-commerce. > > > Kayta > ////.\\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ((( > | -- )))) > * ) ((((( > /----\ /---\ > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 15:38:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA32511 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 15:38:54 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA17847; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 13:58:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA24105 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 13:47:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.mc.net (mail.mc.net [209.172.128.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id NAA24093 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 13:47:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 11469 invoked from network); 18 Jan 1999 20:48:40 -0000 Received: from tntmodem2-9.mc.net (HELO HEATHERL) (209.172.134.9) by mail.mc.net with SMTP; 18 Jan 1999 20:48:40 -0000 Message-ID: <36A3C216.656E@mc.net> Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 15:21:58 -0800 From: Heather Law Organization: Interstellar Trading Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: Russian peasant dress References: <199901180641.XAA22956@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Rating: mail.mc.net 1.6.1 0/1000/N Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Heather Law You mean a sarafan? (Sort of like a long jumper, laid out flat it goes about 45 degrees out on each side from under the arms, covers the bust and has straps over the shoulders. Worn with a pretty typical-looking E. Euro peasant blouse.) The Tilke book has the layouts if that's what you're looking for (unfortunately not his online Oriental Costume book). Heather > (Regardless of this fact a number of female > participants of Ft. Ross' living history day wear a russian peasent > gown which has a name that I forget. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 16:13:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA00017 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 16:13:24 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA20020; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 14:14:29 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA26892 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 14:02:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.mc.net (mail.mc.net [209.172.128.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id OAA26882 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 14:02:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 15961 invoked from network); 18 Jan 1999 21:04:16 -0000 Received: from tntmodem2-9.mc.net (HELO HEATHERL) (209.172.134.9) by mail.mc.net with SMTP; 18 Jan 1999 21:04:16 -0000 Message-ID: <36A3C5BE.7CE1@mc.net> Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 15:37:34 -0800 From: Heather Law Organization: Interstellar Trading Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: well, duh! References: <199901181928.MAA03807@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Rating: mail.mc.net 1.6.1 0/1000/N Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Heather Law Please excuse my 2 "redundant and repetitive" postings, sarafans and Joy Trim... Teach me to check for more that 1 HCOST digest before I jump in! Heather _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 16:28:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA00095 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 16:28:42 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA25115; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 14:48:11 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA02694 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 14:36:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA02677 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 14:36:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (pilot [129.127.36.15]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id IAA05752 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 08:06:16 +1030 (CST) Received: by pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.61+IDA+MU/UA-5.23) id AA18522; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 08:06:15 +1030 Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 08:06:15 +1030 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant X-Sender: csmart@pilot To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: nightcaps In-Reply-To: <199901182028.MAA02126@zeus.directcon.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Mon, 18 Jan 1999, Margo Anderson wrote: > > I once lived in an "apartment" that was basically a converted toolshed, in > South Lake Tahoe, CA, (i.e, a very cold climate). The bedroom was > completely unheated and uninsulated, to the point where a glass of water > left on the nightstand would freeze solid overnight. My partner and I found > that we were warmest sleeping under many blankets, but naked except for > wooly hats. > Good point actually.....Something like 90% of body heat is lost through the head (hence the need for hats) but human body heat is quite efficient in warming the other parts. In fact one of the best ways of dealing with hypothermia when hiking is to get as naked as you can and crawl into a sleeping bag with the person.... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 16:30:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA00113 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 16:30:27 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA25577; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 14:50:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA02972 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 14:38:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from bigred.unl.edu (00217146@bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA02964 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 14:38:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (00217146@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA07400 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 15:38:53 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 15:38:52 -0600 (CST) From: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: nightcaps In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> > Good point actually.....Something like 90% of body heat is lost through > the head (hence the need for hats) but human body heat is quite > efficient in warming the other parts. In fact one of the best ways of > dealing with hypothermia when hiking is to get as naked as you can and > crawl into a sleeping bag with the person.... Does this mean I can go skiing naked, as long as I wear a hat? *grin Emma _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 16:35:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA00142 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 16:35:37 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA26491; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 14:55:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA03775 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 14:43:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.85]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA03763 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 14:43:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from bino (1Cust11.tnt5.bos2.da.uu.net [208.254.20.11]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA03949 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 13:43:21 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <003101be432b$96a67a60$0b14fed0@bino> From: "Van Cleave & Fleming" To: Subject: H-COST: Re: WW II Help Kids clothing Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 16:43:28 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002E_01BE4301.AC9AB180" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.0810.800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.0810.800 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Van Cleave & Fleming" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01BE4301.AC9AB180 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable - -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" >There's a terrific movie, made about 7 years back, on this >subject, but darned if I can remember the name of it. That movie is called "Hope & Glory" and its fabulous! - Kendra Van Cleave ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01BE4301.AC9AB180 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

- -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" <hhdunlap@email.msn.com>
=
>There's=20 a terrific movie, made about 7 years back, on this
>subject, but = darned if=20 I can remember the name of it.
 
That movie is called "Hope & Glory" and its = fabulous!
 
- Kendra Van Cleave
 
------=_NextPart_000_002E_01BE4301.AC9AB180-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 17:25:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA00559 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 17:25:29 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA05546; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 15:44:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA12561 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 15:32:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.primary.net (mail.primary.net [205.242.92.236]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA12551 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 15:32:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from ninenet.com (pn12-ppp-48.primary.net [208.19.232.48]) by mail.primary.net (8.9.1/8.9.1/+primary) with ESMTP id QAA16736 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 16:32:43 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36A3B64D.55603C70@ninenet.com> Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 16:32:09 -0600 From: Karen Heim X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Tea Darkening References: <199901161916.OAA18940@jefferson.patriot.net> <36A28415.1526FEA0@pacbell.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Karen Heim On a similar note: I have a vinyl doll I want to color brown. Is there a natural-looking way to do this? Will the coffee/tea technique work? Or perhaps a type of dye? I don't really want to paint it - that's not something I'm comfortable with, and I don't think it will look natural. Karen _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 17:31:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA00592 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 17:31:24 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA06742; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 15:51:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA13498 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 15:39:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA13293 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 15:38:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (pilot [129.127.36.15]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id JAA02958 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 09:07:40 +1030 (CST) Received: by pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.61+IDA+MU/UA-5.23) id AA18898; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 09:07:39 +1030 Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 09:07:38 +1030 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant X-Sender: csmart@pilot To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: nightcaps In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Mon, 18 Jan 1999, Emma Elizabeth Lehman wrote: > > > Does this mean I can go skiing naked, as long as I wear a hat? *grin And strap another naked human being to yourself....:-) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 17:53:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA00768 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 17:53:29 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA10106; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 16:13:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA16830 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 16:01:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.erols.com (smtp2.erols.com [207.172.3.235]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA16821 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 16:01:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from andrea (209-122-216-59.s59.tnt3.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com [209.122.216.59]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA28905 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 18:06:20 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000901be434f$e5353760$3bd87ad1@andrea.gideon> From: "Andrea Gideon" To: "H-Costume" Subject: H-COST: modern sewing ? Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 18:03:03 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Andrea Gideon" Any suggestions on how to create a nursing opening in a dress pattern that has bust darts? It will be worn with a short matching jacket so the opening do not really have to be hidden. Andrea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 18:14:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA00892 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 18:14:25 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA12728; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 16:34:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA20020 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 16:22:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA19996 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 16:22:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.217.218.72] (ell88.acadia.net [205.217.218.72]) by p2.acadia.net (8.8.5/8.8.6) with SMTP id SAA13702 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 18:22:18 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 18:22:19 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: silk for cord Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) <> The shiny, smooth kind. Original cords were made from reeled, not spun silk, so the fluffy looking stuff is inaccurate (also wouldn't wear as well.) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 18:16:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA00910 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 18:16:36 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA12986; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 16:36:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA20442 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 16:24:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.tds.net (mail.tds.net [204.246.1.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA20412 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 16:24:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from nash.tds.net (latnusr0-a03.nash.tds.net [207.0.84.131]) by mail.tds.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA25621 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 17:24:33 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36A3C2B0.69503AC7@nash.tds.net> Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 17:24:32 -0600 From: Kent & Kat Organization: Oak, Ash, and Thorn X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: modern sewing ? References: <000901be434f$e5353760$3bd87ad1@andrea.gideon> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kent & Kat Andrea Gideon wrote: > > Any suggestions on how to create a nursing opening in a > dress pattern that has bust darts? It will be worn with > a short matching jacket so the opening do not really have > to be hidden. I generally use vertical slits for nursing dresses. You might try looking at these two sites. One sells nursing patterns and the other clothes but it might help give you some ideas about how to modify the pattern. http://www.motherwear.com/ clothes http://www.snj.com/eldesigns/ patterns Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 19:29:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA01300 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 19:29:16 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA21616; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 17:49:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA00545 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 17:37:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id RAA00534 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 17:37:10 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 17:37:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 18269 invoked from network); 19 Jan 1999 00:32:44 -0000 Received: from 2.64.3-8.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (207.231.64.2) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 19 Jan 1999 00:32:44 -0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19990118163702.21a73ba2@mail2.quiknet.com> X-Sender: joanj@mail2.quiknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: Costume Manual, was RE: H-COST: fort ross/ ethnic Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Joan M Jurancich I looked at the Costume Manual this afternoon. There are no references for Fort Ross. Joan Jurancich Sutter's Fort Docent >-Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" > >There is a costume book for mid-19th Century California and >the far West, which I personally have not seen, so I don't >know if it includes Russian immigrant costume of the type >you want. > >But it is by Rickman, David W. and called, Costume Manual: >Guide to Clothing Worn in California and Far West ca. 1845. >nd. Sutter's Fort. detailed costume reconstruction: Euro & >Native American, Californio, 121 Costume plates b/w and >color, lg. 4to. notebook bound 202p. [snip] >Hope H. Dunlap [snip] _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 19:41:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA01364 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 19:41:06 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA22635; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 18:00:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA01859 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 17:48:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp4.erols.com (smtp4.erols.com [207.172.3.237]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA01840 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 17:48:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from s0peladn (207-172-244-146.s146.tnt4.rcm.erols.com [207.172.244.146]) by smtp4.erols.com (8.8.8/smtp-v1) with SMTP id TAA03229 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 19:47:57 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000101be4345$6912d980$92f4accf@s0peladn> From: "Penny E. Ladnier" To: "costume newsgroup" Subject: H-COST: Dior book Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 19:48:14 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Penny E. Ladnier" I came across a book on Dior at Barnes & Noble. I would like to hear some feedback on two areas addressed in the book I found interesting: 1. A picture shows a woman with a U shaped device with a pencil at the bottom of the U. The lady was using the device to draw lines on the back of her legs simulating hose seams. Has anyone seen this device before and what is it called? 2. The book states that models were called mannequins prior to WW2. Has anyone heard of this before? What was the reason for the change of name? Lastly, a question that has puzzled me for a few years... while in school my professor stated that Dior was not responsible for "The New Look". That he just received credit for it. If Dior was not responsible for "The New Look", who was? Did another designer come up with the idea and Dior make it fashionable? Later...Penny http://www.costumegallery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 19:50:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA01411 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 19:50:02 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA23907; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 18:09:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA02879 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 17:57:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA02838 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 17:57:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.180] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 102PTt-0005jh-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 16:57:22 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990118160304.00bf3dc0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 16:08:45 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: RE: kakofnitch In-Reply-To: <000601be4316$7be26a50$33f08ccd@kerryc.Net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows I know a word 'kokoshnik', meaning the pearled cap-like thing worn by Russian women under their head scarf. Where does your word come from? Context? > >Can anyone tell me what the above referenced word is? I know it's a >coostuming term. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 19:50:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA01415 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 19:50:06 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA23910; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 18:09:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA02889 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 17:57:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA02857 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 17:57:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.180] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 102PU1-0005jh-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 16:57:31 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990118161320.00c0fea0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 16:17:33 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: modern sewing ? In-Reply-To: <000901be434f$e5353760$3bd87ad1@andrea.gideon> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >Any suggestions on how to create a nursing opening in a dress pattern that >has bust darts? It will be worn with a short matching jacket so the opening >do not really have to be hidden. I made a garment with nursing slits by making the slits then putting a panel over them. The slits were narrower together than the edges of the panel were, so the panel covered them. I suggest a panel which looks like the front of the dress ought to, because I think you do have to hide the slits so it looks like they aren't there. Then let the edges of the panel be disguised by the jacket.\ _____ _____ <-jacket ____________ <-panel ____ _______ ___ <-dress Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 19:50:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA01419 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 19:50:10 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA23919; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 18:09:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA02902 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 17:57:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA02850 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 17:57:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.180] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 102PTx-0005jh-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 16:57:26 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990118161131.00c0a240@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 16:13:00 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Tea Darkening In-Reply-To: <36A3B64D.55603C70@ninenet.com> References: <199901161916.OAA18940@jefferson.patriot.net> <36A28415.1526FEA0@pacbell.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >I have a vinyl doll I want to color brown. Is there a natural-looking way to >do this? Will the coffee/tea technique work? Or perhaps a type of dye? I >don't really want to paint it - that's not something I'm comfortable with, and >I don't think it will look natural. Dylon's hot water dye will dye plastic buttons. I'd try the technique out on a plastic doll from the thrift store before trying it on your doll. It ought to work... Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 20:43:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA01684 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 20:43:01 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA00665; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 19:03:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA08436 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 18:51:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA08412 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 18:51:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p29.directcon.net [206.170.184.78]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA09907 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 17:46:25 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 17:46:25 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901190146.RAA09907@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: modern sewing ? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson At 06:03 PM 1/18/99 -0800, you wrote: > >-Poster: "Andrea Gideon" > >Any suggestions on how to create a nursing opening in a dress pattern that >has bust darts? It will be worn with a short matching jacket so the opening >do not really have to be hidden. My favorite way to make a nursing opening is to make a center front opening from an inch or two below the neckline, to just above waist level. Then use your bodice pattern to cut a panel with the same neckline as the dress, just narrower than the width from bust point to point, and long enough to reach the waistline. Line this piece, leaving the neckline area unturned. Stitch it to the neckline, then apply the neck facing or binding, treating thethree layers as one. Sew a snap (I like the large nylon ones) to each lower corner and to the dress in the corresponding location. If your dress is a woven fabric without much ease, it's best to replace the underlay area with a stretch knit. Margo Anderson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 20:52:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA01732 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 20:52:51 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA02010; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 19:13:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA09526 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 19:01:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from wilma.widomaker.com (smtp@wilma.widomaker.com [204.17.220.5]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA09520 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 19:01:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.96.178.14] by wilma.widomaker.com with smtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for h-costume@indra.com id 102QTX-0007jJ-00; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 21:01:04 -0500 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19990119015944.006eba84@mail.widomaker.com> X-Sender: rcarnegie@mail.widomaker.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 20:59:44 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Ron Carnegie Subject: Re: Costume Manual, was RE: H-COST: fort ross/ ethnic Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Ron Carnegie At 05:37 PM 1/18/99 -0700, you wrote: > >-Poster: Joan M Jurancich > >I looked at the Costume Manual this afternoon. There are no references for >Fort Ross. > >Joan Jurancich >Sutter's Fort Docent Actually there are, but they are limited, and male. The russian men wore mostly uniforms, a number of those uniforms were apparently purchased by Mr. Sutter after Fort Ross closed. Mr. Rickman shows some of those in his book, though I do not have the page number with me. Cheers, Ron Carnegie rcarnegie@widomaker.com ************************************************* "The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground walked other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow." G.M. Trevelyan ************************************************* _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 21:13:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA01858 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 21:13:12 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA04550; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 19:33:29 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA11297 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 19:21:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from raven.prod.itd.earthlink.net (raven.prod.itd.earthlink.net [209.178.63.9]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA11289 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 19:21:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from alt1 (sdn-ar-001dcwashP257.dialsprint.net [168.191.22.19]) by raven.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA00386 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 18:21:23 -0800 (PST) From: "Allison Thurman" To: Subject: H-COST: dior and new look Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 21:23:50 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2212 (4.71.2419.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.0810.800 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Allison Thurman" i believe the foundations for the new look were in the works in paris before wwII/the occupation - needless to say it was put on hold until after the war. however, i believe an issue of 'fashion theory" from last year discusses fashion in paris during wwII and mentions that dressmakers in paris would sometimes make "new look" type dresses in order to use up yards of fabric that would otherwise go towards the nazi war effort. im not looking at the issue this second but i can go sift through my back issues for credits if need be. allison _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 22:32:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA02305 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 22:32:47 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA13547; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 20:52:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA19168 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 20:40:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp4.erols.com (smtp4.erols.com [207.172.3.237]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA19154 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 20:40:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from erols.com (207-172-44-119.s119.tnt3.brd.erols.com [207.172.44.119]) by smtp4.erols.com (8.8.8/smtp-v1) with ESMTP id WAA16071 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 22:40:24 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36A3FEED.2DBD9DB2@erols.com> Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 22:41:34 -0500 From: "David S. Mallinak" Organization: Red Dragon Bridge Enterprizes X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Incas References: <000101be3ead$f8239b60$ec56accf@s0peladn> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "David S. Mallinak" Penny E. Ladnier wrote: > I just watched a really good video on the Inca civilization. It was > originally aired on PBS in 1980, and produced by the BBC. It is titled > Incas (PBS Video 1061). A related source of information may be the Museum of Man in San Deago, Calf. When I visit the museum in early 90's , there was a exhibit of clothing of MesoAmerica. At that time there was no catalog of exhibit (no money). I know I spent the afternoon of one visit tracking down the official responsible. David S Mallinak _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 23:04:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA02493 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 23:04:11 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA17406; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 21:24:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA22549 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 21:12:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA22527 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 21:12:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from test (ip220-245.cc.interlog.com [207.34.220.245]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA29403 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 23:12:17 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990118223826.009a8100@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 22:38:26 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: RE: H-COST: leading strings In-Reply-To: <000d01be4181$190fb900$7417ffd0@default> References: <4.1.19990114113105.00bc3830@pop.slip.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, Has anyone seen any 16th century portraits with children in leading strings? I would be curious to see what they actually look like. Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 23:04:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA02497 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 23:04:15 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA17401; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 21:24:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA22544 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 21:12:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA22518 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 21:12:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from test (ip220-245.cc.interlog.com [207.34.220.245]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA29433 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 23:12:20 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990118225754.009a8e50@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 22:57:54 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: H-Cost: Synthetic whalebone? In-Reply-To: <19990117101951Z40845-1450+4@tuug.org> References: <199901170350.TAA21418@zeus.directcon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >I have been using it (only the 1mm x 10mm and 2.5mm x 6mm >sizes, though others are also available) in the corsets and >bodices I have made during the last couple of years. I cannot >compare it to real whalebone, as I have never had access to >that, but perhaps I can answer some questions anyway. Where did you get it? Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 23:15:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA02573 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 23:15:19 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA18935; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 21:35:46 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA23827 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 21:23:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA23814 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 21:23:34 -0700 (MST) From: ROXDUDLEY@aol.com Received: from ROXDUDLEY@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id XOQQa03539 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 23:20:39 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <606646e7.36a40817@aol.com> Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 23:20:39 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: H-COST: Site Help Needed Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 189 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: ROXDUDLEY@aol.com Greetings to the List ! I need to ask a favor....I set up my new computer this past weekend & forgot to get all my favorite places off the old one before packing it all up in a box. There is a costume site that I can't for the life of me remember its name. The only thing I can recall is that the web design page is pinkish in color and has a design of a single row of pastel sequins on it (at least that's what I remember it looking like). It's a huge link site with many related sites of interest. If this vague description strikes a chord of recognition with anyone, please email me privately. Vowing never to lose a site again, Roxanne _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 23:50:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA02772 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 23:49:59 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA22690; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 22:10:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA26959 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 21:58:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA26944 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 21:58:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from test (ip203-114.cc.interlog.com [207.34.203.114]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA12404 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 23:58:09 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990118234306.009c6500@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 23:43:06 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: Silk Cords In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >I want to make some silk cords and braids for the 15th century. I have no >problem getting hold of the silk but don't know whether I should get the >shiny, smooth sort or the softer looking, slightly fluffy sort. Where do you get it? Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 23:57:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA02858 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 23:57:20 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA23396; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 22:16:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA27629 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 22:03:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from sight.vcn.com (sight.vcn.com [208.162.240.3]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA27622 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 22:03:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from unknown (vision269.vcn.com [208.162.241.166]) by sight.vcn.com (Postfix) with SMTP id CD49EF51EC; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 22:03:48 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <606646e7.36a40817@aol.com> References: Conversation <606646e7.36a40817@aol.com> with last message <606646e7.36a40817@aol.com> Priority: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Frank&Tracy Thallas JR" Subject: Re: H-COST: Site Help Needed Date: Mon, 18 Jan 99 23:06:19 PST Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id XAA02858 Status: O -Poster: "Frank&Tracy Thallas JR" Greetings! It's "The Costume Page" - http://members.aol.com/nebula5/costume.html the sequins gave it away... Liadain ---------- > > -Poster: ROXDUDLEY@aol.com > > Greetings to the List ! > > I need to ask a favor....I set up my new computer this past weekend & forgot > to get all my favorite places off the old one before packing it all up in a > box. There is a costume site that I can't for the life of me remember its > name. The only thing I can recall is that the web design page is pinkish in > color and has a design of a single row of pastel sequins on it (at least > that's what I remember it looking like). It's a huge link site with many > related sites of interest. If this vague description strikes a chord of > recognition with anyone, please email me privately. > > Vowing never to lose a site again, > Roxanne > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 23:57:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA02865 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 23:57:35 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA23165; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 22:13:47 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA27326 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 22:01:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.pacifier.com (root@smtp.pacifier.com [199.2.117.96]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA27186 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 22:01:23 -0700 (MST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: from grendal2 (ip76.van15.pacifier.com [216.65.137.76]) by smtp.pacifier.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id VAA03186 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 21:01:21 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901190501.VAA03186@smtp.pacifier.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 21:01:58 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: Dior book Priority: normal In-reply-to: <000101be4345$6912d980$92f4accf@s0peladn> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > Lastly, a question that has puzzled me for a few years... while in school my > professor stated that Dior was not responsible for "The New Look". That he > just received credit for it. If Dior was not responsible for "The New > Look", who was? Did another designer come up with the idea and Dior make it > fashionable? If it's the book I'm thinking of, it explains the precise origins of "The New Look." (The book I read went into great detail about what he was doing and when each idea came along.) Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 00:22:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA03636 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 00:22:15 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA25237; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 22:42:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA29807 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 22:30:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from echo.flash.net (echo.flash.net [209.30.0.40]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA29795 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 22:30:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from flash.net (p99.amax12.dialup.hou1.flash.net [209.30.67.99]) by echo.flash.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA15487 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 23:29:26 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36A4175C.FFA0B4D6@flash.net> Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 23:25:48 -0600 From: Charlene Charette X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-Costume List Subject: H-COST: Hawaiian shirts Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Charlene Charette This is slightly off-topic, but I'm hoping someone will have an answer. A friend of ours went home to Hawaiian recently and my husband asked him to bring back a shirt. It's a cotton print, but the shirt is made so that the fabric is wrong-side out. My friend assures me that this is the way these shirts are made although he has no idea why. Does anyone know why they're made this way? It almost makes me want to take it apart and resew it. *almost* :-) --Charlene -- No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible. -- Stanislaus Lezczynski _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 00:34:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA03692 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 00:34:33 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA26069; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 22:55:04 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA00880 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 22:42:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA00875 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 22:42:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (pilot [129.127.36.15]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id QAA12449 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 16:12:46 +1030 (CST) Received: by pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.61+IDA+MU/UA-5.23) id AA21916; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 16:12:45 +1030 Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 16:12:44 +1030 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant X-Sender: csmart@pilot To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: H-Costume List Subject: Re: H-COST: Hawaiian shirts In-Reply-To: <36A4175C.FFA0B4D6@flash.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Mon, 18 Jan 1999, Charlene Charette wrote: > > -Poster: Charlene Charette > > This is slightly off-topic, but I'm hoping someone will have an answer. > A friend of ours went home to Hawaiian recently and my husband asked him > to bring back a shirt. It's a cotton print, but the shirt is made so > that the fabric is wrong-side out. My friend assures me that this is > the way these shirts are made although he has no idea why. Does anyone > know why they're made this way? It almost makes me want to take it > apart and resew it. *almost* :-) > Maybe so the sun doesn't fade it? I try to hang a lot of my clothes out to dry inside out to slow down the effects of the sun here..... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 00:48:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA03769 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 00:48:51 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA26839; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 23:09:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA01727 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 22:57:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.68]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA01713 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 22:56:57 -0700 (MST) From: SNSpies@aol.com Received: from SNSpies@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id TXIBa03482 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 00:56:21 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 00:56:21 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Silk Cords Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part0_916725382_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: SNSpies@aol.com This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_916725382_boundary Content-ID: <0_916725382@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII << >I want to make some silk cords and braids for the 15th century. I have no >problem getting hold of the silk but don't know whether I should get the >shiny, smooth sort or the softer looking, slightly fluffy sort. And Danielle asked: << Where do you get it? >> You can get wonderful silk thread from one of any of the suppliers listed below. It is a list of suggested suppliers which is provided to tablet weavers. Cheers! Nancy --part0_916725382_boundary Content-ID: <0_916725382@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2> Content-type: text/plain; name="SUPPLI~1.TXT" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Content-disposition: inline SUGGESTED LIST OF SUPPLIERS 1. Aurora Silk, 5806 North Vancouver Avenue, Portland, OR 97217 (503) = 286-4149 - silk threads 2. Beggar=92s Lace, P.O. Box 481223, Denver, CO 80248 (303) 722-5557 l= acelady@rmii.com - silk, linen, cotton threads 3. Bob Patterson, P.O. Box 424, Orinda, CA 94563 (925) 943-5243 - silk= , linen, and cotton threads 4. Books in Transit, 2830 Case Way, Turlock, CA 95382 (209) 632-6984 - = out-of-print books 5. Carolina Homespun, 190 Eastridge Rd., Ridgeway, VA 24148 (800) 450-7= 786 homespun@kimbanet.com - tablets, =09shuttles, belt tablet-weaving holder, looms, warping pegs, books 6. Daisy Chain, P.O. Box 1258, Parkersburg, WV 26102 (304) 428-9500 - s= ilk, metallic, real gold and silver threads 7. Earth Guild, 33 Haywood Street, Asheville, NC 28801 (800) 327-8448 = inform@earthguild.com or =09catalog.earthguild.com - square cardboard tab= lets, belt shuttles, books, linen, cotton, and wool threads 8. Fiber Hut, 2316 Crestwood Rd., SE, Calgary, Alberta T2C 0C6 Canada (= 403) 279-2658 - square cardboard tablets, =09books, silk, linen, cotton, and wool threads 9. Fibrecrafts, Style Cottage, Lower Eashing, Godalming, Surrey GU7 2QD = England (48) 342-1853) - square cardboard =09tablets, warping pegs with clamps, shuttles, books 10. Halcyon Yarns, 12 School Street, Bath, ME 04530 (800) 341-0282 - sq= uare cardboard tablets, warping pegs, books, =09silk, linen, cotton, wool, and metallic threads 11. Handweavers Studio and Gallery, 29 Haroldstone Road, London E17 7AN = England (81) 521-2281 - square and =09hexagonal cardboard tablets, warpi= ng pegs with clamps, shuttles, silk, linen, cotton, wool, and metallic th= reads 12. Linda Hendrickson, 140 SE 39th Avenue, Portland, OR 97214 (503) 239= -5016 lindahendrickson@cnnw.net - =09square cardboard tablets, shuttles, kits, books, video 13. Heritage Looms, Route 6, Box 731-E, Alvin, TX 77511 (409) 925-4161 -= tabletop looms, square cardboard tablets 14. Frank Herring & Sons, 27 High West Street, Dorchester, Dorset DT1 1UP= England (30) 524-4449 - square =09plastic tablets, warping pegs with clamps, shuttles 15. Howell=92s Weaving Emporium, 4832 Salmon Drive, Paradise, CA 95969 (= 503) 877-4539 - tabletop looms, shuttles 16. LACIS, 3163 Adeline Street, Berkeley, CA 94703 (510) 843-7178 staff= @lacis.com - silk, linen, cotton, and metallic =09threads, including G=FCtermann silks and color card 17. Lou=EBt, P.O. Box 267, Ogdensburg, NY 13669 (613) 925-4502 - square = wooden tablets 18. Laura Morgan, 1633 Stoney Creek Drive, Charlottesville, VA 22902 (80= 4) 984-0537 - handmade wooden tablets 19. Needle Arts, Inc., 2211 Monroe, Dearborn, MI 48124 (313) 278-6266 - = silk, linen, cotton, metallic, real gold threads 20. Nordic Needle, 1314 Gateway Drive, Fargo, ND 58103 (800) 433-4321 ne= edle@corpcomm.com - silk, cotton, and =09metallic threads 21. Robin and Russ Handweavers, 533 North Adams Street, McMinnville, OR 9= 7128 (800) 932-8391 =09robin&russ@onlinemac.com - square and hexagonal c= ardboard tablets. shuttles, books, videos 22. The Silk Tree, 20297 Stanton Ave., Maple Ridge, BC V2X 9A5 Canada (= 604)465-9816 aurum@axionet.com - =09silk threads 23. Otfried Staudigel, H=F6ppnerstrasse 108, D - 47809 Krefeld, Germany -= floor-standing looms 24. Textile Reproductions, Box 48, West Chesterfield, MA 01084 (413) 296= -4437 - silk, linen, cotton, and wool threads =09(early vegetable dyes used) 25. Things Japanese, 9805 NE 116th Street, Suite 7160, Kirkland, WA 98034= (206) 821-2287 - silk and metallic threads 26. Treenway Crafts, 725 Caledonia Avenue, Victoria, BC V8T 1E4 Canada (= 604) 383-1661 treenway@coastnet.com - =09silk threads 27. Unicorn Books and Crafts, 1338 Ross Street, Petaluma, CA 94954 (800)= 289-9276 - square cardboard tablets, belt =09shuttles, belt tablet weaving holder, books, videos 28. The Weaving Works, 4717 Brooklyn Ave., NE, Seattle, WA 98105 (206) 5= 24-1221 - square cardboard tablets, =09shuttles, warping pegs, belt table= t weaving holder, books, videos 29. WEBS, P.O. Box 147, Northampton, MA 01061-0147 (413) 584-2225 webs@= yarn.com - silk threads 30. Yarn Barn, P.O. Box 396, Dillwyn, VA 23936 (800) 850-6008 pkirtland= @yarnbarn.com - square cardboard tablets, =09shuttles, warping pegs, books --part0_916725382_boundary-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 01:37:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA04269 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 01:37:03 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA00270; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 23:57:34 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA04798 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 23:45:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from beaver.slip.net (beaver.slip.net [207.171.193.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA04793 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 23:45:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.230.157] (helo=default) by beaver.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 102Uua-0006hm-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 22:45:16 -0800 X-Sender: cjcannon@mail.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 22:45:50 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: nightcaps In-Reply-To: References: <199901182028.MAA02126@zeus.directcon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 08:06 AM 1/19/99 +1030, you wrote: My partner and I found >> that we were warmest sleeping under many blankets, but naked except for >> wooly hats. Yep. I'll bet the trip through the breezeway was made swiftly in any case, and sometimes pulling on a robe/&c. as you went... . >Good point actually.....Something like 90% of body heat is lost through >the head (hence the need for hats) but human body heat is quite >efficient in warming the other parts. In fact one of the best ways of >dealing with hypothermia when hiking is to get as naked as you can and >crawl into a sleeping bag with the person.... >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- >Claire F. Clarke I'll vouch, having had to do that before. It worked. Though the person was prone to chill easily for a while thereafter, no other harm was taken. Thanks be. Carol Cannon, who grew up in a cold area _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 01:38:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA04280 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 01:38:01 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA00408; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 23:58:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA04875 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 23:46:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from beaver.slip.net (beaver.slip.net [207.171.193.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA04859 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 23:46:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.230.157] (helo=default) by beaver.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 102Uvg-0006kj-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 22:46:24 -0800 X-Sender: cjcannon@mail.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 22:46:57 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: nightcaps In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 03:38 PM 1/18/99 -0600, you wrote: > >-Poster: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> >Does this mean I can go skiing naked, as long as I wear a hat? *grin >Emma You could, I suppose...ever hear of windburn? It's also a reality. :-) Carol Cannon _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 02:19:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA04517 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 02:19:39 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id AAA03049; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 00:40:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id AAA07365 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 00:27:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from dub-img-4.compuserve.com (dub-img-4.compuserve.com [149.174.206.134]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id AAA07356 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 00:27:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (from root@localhost) by dub-img-4.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.17) id CAA26633 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 02:27:25 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 02:27:05 -0500 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: Dior book To: "INTERNET:h-costume-digest@indra.com" Message-ID: <199901190227_MC2-6726-3F7F@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id CAA04517 Status: O -Poster: Melanie Wilson >1. A picture shows a woman with a U shaped device with a pencil at the bottom of the U. The lady was using the device to draw lines on the back of her legs simulating hose seams. Has anyone seen this device before and what is it called? Well I know some people used eye liner, but a specific device, what was it like I'll ask my Mother in law she was in her late teens so might have used one. >2. The book states that models were called mannequins prior to WW2. Has anyone heard of this before? What was the reason for the change of name? You mean the models that are used in shop windows ? I think they are still called mannequins in the UK. Models are people on catwalks arn't they ? >Lastly, a question that has puzzled me for a few years... while in school my professor stated that Dior was not responsible for "The New Look". That he just received credit for it. If Dior was not responsible for "The New Look", who was? Did another designer come up with the idea and Dior make it fashionable? I've heard the New Look was a response to more fabric being avaliable after the Utility clothing of the war. One of the London Muiseums did a big display (and book I think) on it all last year (or the year before) Can't remember which one though. Mel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 02:36:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA04607 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 02:36:46 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id AAA04060; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 00:57:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id AAA08304 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 00:45:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from arl-img-10.compuserve.com (arl-img-10.compuserve.com [149.174.217.140]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id AAA08298 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 00:45:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by arl-img-10.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.17) id CAA11723 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 02:44:37 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 02:43:31 -0500 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: Dior-stocking seams To: LIST historic costume Message-ID: <199901190243_MC2-6724-6E7E@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id CAA04607 Status: O -Poster: Melanie Wilson Having woken up a bit more I think eyeliner was the wrong term to use (sorry I don't wear makeup !) eyebrow pencil maybe ? Any way it is a soft leaded pencil, that was designed to be used somewhere near your eyes, rather than your legs. I know everytime I dress up in 40s stuff out comes that pencil & my Mum starts drawing on my legs :) I know it was quite a skill to get it looking straight, try it it's hard ! Mel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 02:47:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA04713 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 02:47:07 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id BAA04903; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 01:07:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id AAA08945 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 00:55:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id AAA08939 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 00:55:29 -0700 (MST) From: MissMela@aol.com Received: from MissMela@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id XXDOa03210 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 02:54:52 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <6b1239c9.36a43a4c@aol.com> Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 02:54:52 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Hawaiian shirts Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 205 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MissMela@aol.com My husband had several Hawaiian shirts made with the fabric inside out in the early 1980s and I see that they are back in our "resort" shops in California. After being made out of bright fabrics for so long, everyone needs a change. (Look how often woman change dress styles!) Men don't seem to be able to deal with structural changes as much as a color or fabric change and even then, it's limited. My husband always preferred the reversed shirts because they were more muted and didn't look as resorty or cruise ship like. No fact, just personal history. Mela _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 02:50:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA04744 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 02:50:28 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id BAA05183; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 01:11:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id AAA09158 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 00:58:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id AAA09152 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 00:58:54 -0700 (MST) From: MissMela@aol.com Received: from MissMela@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 0DGYa19752 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 02:58:17 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 02:58:17 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Dior book Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 205 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MissMela@aol.com Penny- My Worth book talks about his models being called mannequins and my mom was a model in the the 1930s and she says that that's what she was called, not a model. She said you were a mannequin, you did modeling. Granted, that's info from one person, but it makes sense. (She used to draw lines on the back of her legs with an eyebrow pencil, does remember there being a device to do it with but couldn't afford it and doesn't remember the name at the movement) Mela _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 03:33:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA10648 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 03:33:32 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id BAA07395; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 01:54:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id BAA11616 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 01:41:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (mailsorter-105.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.95]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id BAA11609 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 01:41:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailtod-141.iap.bryant.webtv.net (mailtod-141.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.128]) by mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with ESMTP id AAA08333; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 00:41:53 -0800 (PST) Received: (from production@localhost) by mailtod-141.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/mt.gso.26Feb98) id AAA25678; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 00:41:53 -0800 (PST) X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAsAhQeB0w6ppaA1B7t76acFNtJIaccpwIUZ90IvUALxI1YUnFYHO1h6uZbYAQ= From: starsinger@webtv.net (theresa sorrell) Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 01:41:53 -0700 (MST) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Dior-stocking seams Message-ID: <24344-36A44551-108@mailtod-141.iap.bryant.webtv.net> In-Reply-To: Melanie Wilson 's message of Tue, 19 Jan 1999 02:43:31 -0500 Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: starsinger@webtv.net (theresa sorrell) I believe that due to the shortage of silk stockings in WW II, many women went without stockings. They put the line on the back of their legs as a fake stockings seam. If you "saw" the seam, you must be wearing stockings. Nylons were a few years in the future. Starsinger _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 06:32:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA11523 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 06:32:27 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id EAA13590; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 04:53:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id EAA16326 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 04:40:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from mamenchi.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE (mamenchi.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE [130.149.4.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id EAA16318 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 04:40:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.zrz.tu-berlin.de ([130.149.4.15]) by mamenchi.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE with esmtp (EXIM-2.10) for id 102ZWC-0001GB-00; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 12:40:24 +0100 Received: from coal.bg.tu-berlin.de by mail.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE with SMTP (IC-PP); Tue, 19 Jan 1999 12:40:11 +0100 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990119124031.00983480@130.149.12.212> X-Sender: barbara@130.149.12.212 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 12:40:31 +0100 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Barbara Maren Winkler Subject: Re: H-COST: Dior book In-Reply-To: <199901190048.RAA01882@indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Barbara Maren Winkler >From: "Penny E. Ladnier" >Subject: H-COST: Dior book > >I came across a book on Dior at Barnes & Noble... > >2. The book states that models were called mannequins prior to WW2. Has >anyone heard of this before? What was the reason for the change of name? I remember models being called "Mannequins" in Germany before the fashion craze of the 1990s, when modelling became hip and a showbiz-like way of making a career. The term "model" came over from America or the international fashion scene. Not contradicting earlier uses of the word "model". At least that's my impression... Dietmar?? Barbara Maren -- Barbara Maren Winkler barbara@math.tu-berlin.de _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 07:42:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA11882 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 07:42:16 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id GAA16401; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 06:01:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id FAA19497 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 05:49:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from NIH2WAAD (smtp4.site1.csi.com [149.174.183.73]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id FAA19488 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 05:49:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by csi.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 07:48:33 -0500 Received: from matt.gographics.com ([206.175.178.75] (may be forged)) by hil-img-ims-4.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/IMS-1.6) with SMTP id HAA14264 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 07:48:15 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <004c01be43a9$994013c0$4bb2afce@matt.gographics.com> From: "Matt Dragonfly Drury" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Wintersilks Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 07:45:30 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Matt Dragonfly Drury" >Has anyone dealt with them recently? I did an Altavista search to find the My order was re-delivered in mid-December after the shipping company lost it a week earlier. I have no complaints; they handled the problem politely and with humour. I certainly don't hold a mistake on the part of the shipping company as representative of a problem on their end. As for their internal financial restructuring, that doesn't concern me overmuch. I always order with my credit card, so that if any sort of problem arises, I have recourse. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 08:42:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA12235 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 08:42:29 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA20183; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 07:01:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id GAA23458 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 06:48:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.85]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id GAA23452 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 06:48:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip25.an3-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.14.25]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA22675 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 05:48:17 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36A47FC6.71932F86@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 08:51:20 -0400 From: Laurel Wilson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03C-NSCP (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST:OT/babushka References: <2.2.16.19990118112737.2acf7990@mail2.quiknet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Laurel Wilson Joan M Jurancich wrote: > -The formal word for "mother" is "matya" (IIRC), but > "grandmother" still escapes me. > According to both my English-Russian dictionary and my elementary Russian text, the word for 'grandmother' really is 'babushka': neither source gives an alternative, so this must be the formal term. Lauri _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 08:47:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA12262 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 08:47:37 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA20779; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 07:09:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id GAA24126 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 06:56:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.85]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id GAA24118 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 06:56:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip25.an3-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.14.25]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA27683 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 05:56:01 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36A48197.7C902463@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 08:59:05 -0400 From: Laurel Wilson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03C-NSCP (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: dior and new look References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Laurel Wilson Allison Thurman wrote: > i believe an issue of 'fashion theory" from last year > discusses fashion in paris during wwII Please, more information on this publication!Lauri _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 09:25:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA12457 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 09:25:07 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA23272; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 07:46:19 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA28027 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 07:33:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from naos.cc.umanitoba.ca (root@naos.cc.umanitoba.ca [130.179.16.122]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA28018 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 07:33:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from Zaurak (net138.lib.umanitoba.ca [130.179.164.138]) by naos.cc.umanitoba.ca (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id IAA10515 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 08:33:15 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199901191433.IAA10515@naos.cc.umanitoba.ca> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Linda Lassman" Organization: University of Manitoba To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 08:36:36 CST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST:OT/babushka Priority: normal In-reply-to: <36A47FC6.71932F86@earthlink.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Linda Lassman" > > Joan M Jurancich wrote: > > > -The formal word for "mother" is "matya" (IIRC), but > > "grandmother" still escapes me. > > > > According to both my English-Russian dictionary and my elementary Russian > text, the word for 'grandmother' really is 'babushka': neither source gives > an alternative, so this must be the formal term. Lauri > Around here, where there is a large Ukrainian (and a somewhat smaller Russian) community, "babushka" is the formal term for "grandmother" (and also for the scarves they traditionally wear--but you all know that ;-) ), but most people actually refer to their "baba". It seems to be the same term in both languages. - Linda Lassman Winnipeg, Manitoba _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 10:02:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA12670 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:02:55 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA27675; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 08:24:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA02558 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 08:10:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from schultz.io.com (ches@schultz.io.com [199.170.88.6]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA02547 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 08:10:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (ches@localhost) by schultz.io.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA19749 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 09:10:53 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: schultz.io.com: ches owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 09:10:52 -0600 (CST) From: ches To: Multiple recipients of list H-COSTUME Subject: H-COST: ANST - Manx Garb (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: ches Please reply to spatsman@aol.com, thank you! ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 23:20:47 EST From: Spatsman@aol.com Reply-To: ansteorra@Ansteorra.ORG To: ansteorra@Ansteorra.ORG Subject: ANST - Manx Garb Slainte, gang! Just a curiousity, I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions or sources for early Manx garb, especially for women 1000-1200 AD. I have had suggestions for Irish, Viking, and Norman garb with island celt influences, but these suggestions are based on guesswork, not research. I am aware that McClintlocks "Early Irish and Highland Dress" contains some notes concerning Manx fashion, but since its been out of date for forty years, I'm having a bigle of a time finding it. Here's hoping someone out there can turn me toward an answer. Fionnagan ============================================================================ Go to http://lists.ansteorra.org/lists.html to perform mailing list tasks. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 10:26:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA12797 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:26:06 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA00722; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 08:46:40 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA06371 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 08:33:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA06358 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 08:33:31 -0700 (MST) From: Luiseach@aol.com Received: from Luiseach@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id TNQAa04794 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:25:16 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <670d12be.36a4a3dc@aol.com> Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:25:16 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Re: H-COST: Hawaiian shirts Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 84 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Luiseach@aol.com "Inside-out" Hawaiian shirts have been made for a long time, especially in the prints that are just 1 color + white. My husband had one about 18 years ago and I remember seeing older ones in a collection, actually a mini-museum, at the store where we bought his. Lucinda _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 10:32:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA12830 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:32:10 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA01617; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 08:53:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA07422 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 08:40:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from cerberus.infoengine.com (firewall-user@cerberus.infoengine.com [207.74.190.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id IAA07412 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 08:40:05 -0700 (MST) Received: by cerberus.infoengine.com; id KAA19382; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:37:12 -0500 Received: from wasabi.infoengine.com(10.1.0.41) by cerberus.infoengine.com via smap (4.1) id xma019380; Tue, 19 Jan 99 10:37:11 -0500 Received: from [10.1.0.64] by wasabi.infoengine.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA61A5 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:32:38 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: gwalli@mail.infoengine.com Message-Id: Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:33:14 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Gaylin Walli" Subject: H-COST: Jamaican costume? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Gaylin Walli" I recently found out that our company is gifting all of us with a trip to Jamaica. Since I still have a little time, I was wondering if anyone could point me to or describe to me, some of the traditional costumes of Jamaica. I have this vision of lush, bright fabrics in my head that border on those of Hawaii, which I'm sure is wrong. What I'm aiming to find is something that I could wear with class and a little jewelry that would suffice for "dressing for dinner" at the resort. Historically accurate would be even better. :) Any ideas? Gaylin gwalli@infoengine.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 10:45:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA12900 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:45:42 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA04077; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 09:06:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA09571 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 08:53:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA09552 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 08:53:10 -0700 (MST) From: SAQUEEN@aol.com Received: from SAQUEEN@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id LURTa06037 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:52:21 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <24777931.36a4aa35@aol.com> Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:52:21 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: H-COST: Dior Book Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 61 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: SAQUEEN@aol.com Dear Penny et al, There is a great Dior book that can be ordered online from Biddingtons Online Antiques and Collectibles at http://www.biddingtons.com/os/category/FIXcur161.shtml?161 Great price of $8.00 which includes the shipping. Check it out, Sally Queen Costume Calendar Series http://www.sallyqueenassociates.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 11:35:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA13162 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 11:35:28 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA10619; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 09:56:32 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA18390 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 09:43:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from morgoth.tuug.org (root@morgoth.tuug.org [130.232.72.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA18369 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 09:43:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from delenn.yok.utu.fi ([130.232.128.27] HELO delenn.yok.utu.fi ident: NO-IDENT-SERVICE [port 6404]) by tuug.org with SMTP id <40821-1469>; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 18:43:04 +0200 From: "Ella Lynoure Rajamaki" Organization: Lyninine Federation To: Danielle Nunn , h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 18:43:00 +2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: H-Cost: Synthetic whalebone? Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3.0.1.32.19990118225754.009a8e50@mail.interlog.com> References: <19990117101951Z40845-1450+4@tuug.org> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Message-Id: <19990119164304Z40821-1469+24@tuug.org> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Ella Lynoure Rajamaki" On 18 Jan 99, at 22:57, Danielle Nunn wrote: > Where did you get it? A German company Wissner sells it, but they have a 200m (over 200 yard) minimum. You is USA and Canade might be more interested to know Farthingale Fabrics ( http://www.farthingales.on.ca/pricelist4.htm )also sells it (at least 1mm x 10mm and 1mm x 7mm, I think) by the metre and they do not have a minimum, I think. -- -------(c) 1999--------------* lynoure@tuug.org * Ella Lynoure Rajamaki--------* http://www.tuug.org/~lynoure * _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 11:42:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA13213 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 11:42:09 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA11465; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:03:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA19468 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 09:50:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from bigred.unl.edu (00217146@bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA19454 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 09:50:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (00217146@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA09336 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:50:43 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:50:43 -0600 (CST) From: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: silk for cord In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> Okay, so what's the difference between "reeled" and "spun"? Emma the Non-Spinner On Mon, 18 Jan 1999, Deborah Pulliam wrote: > > The shiny, smooth kind. Original cords were made from reeled, not spun > silk, so the fluffy looking stuff is inaccurate (also wouldn't wear as > well.) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 11:46:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA13243 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 11:46:23 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA11964; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:06:14 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA19899 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 09:53:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.73]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA19883 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 09:52:59 -0700 (MST) From: PiranhaBB@aol.com Received: from PiranhaBB@aol.com by imo29.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 6KWDa01222 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 11:51:02 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 11:51:02 EST To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: H-COST: babushka Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 84 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: PiranhaBB@aol.com When I took Russian in college, we learned that the term for grandmother was pronounced ba'-bushka (with the emphasis on the first syllable) and the term for the head scarf thingy was pronounced ba-bu'-shka (with the emphasis on the second syllable). Hope this doesn't further confuse. Best regards, Lisa _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 11:46:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA13250 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 11:46:41 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA12114; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:08:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA20176 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 09:54:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from relay1.Hawaii.Edu (root@relay1.hawaii.edu [128.171.3.53]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id JAA20168 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 09:54:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from uhunix1.its.hawaii.edu ([128.171.44.6]) by relay1.Hawaii.Edu with SMTP id <149003(2)>; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 06:53:10 -1000 Received: from localhost by uhunix1.its.Hawaii.Edu with SMTP id <135667(2)>; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 06:53:01 -1000 Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 06:52:56 -1000 From: lisaleon@hawaii.edu X-Sender: lisaleon@uhunix1 To: H-Costume List Subject: Re: H-COST: Hawaiian shirts In-Reply-To: <36A4175C.FFA0B4D6@flash.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: lisaleon@hawaii.edu Yes, they're supposed to be that way and it's usually the better quality ones and more expensive brands that make them inside out. Aloha shirts are often worn as business wear (especially on Fridays) and some of the aloha prints are just TOO loud. Although it may have started as a way to use fabric that was too bold I think it may have evolved into a status thing. Now for the most part, reverse prints are used by the "good" companies--you don't see reverse print aloha shirts on the $14.99 rack at K-Mart. Also, some of those companies have fabric printed specially for them and the right side is tame enough so it's become a fashion issue. lisa _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 11:49:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA13272 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 11:48:57 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA12375; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:10:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA20485 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 09:57:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from post.its.mcw.edu (post.its.mcw.edu [141.106.32.10]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA20478 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 09:57:00 -0700 (MST) Received: (from mschulte@localhost) by post.its.mcw.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA11682 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:55:08 -0600 (CST) From: Marie Schulte Message-Id: <199901191655.KAA11682@post.its.mcw.edu> Subject: H-COST: Re:"mannequin" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:55:06 -0600 (CST) In-Reply-To: from "SNSpies@aol.com" at Jan 19, 99 00:56:21 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Marie Schulte In the Dorothy Sayers novel _Have His Carcase_ the term 'mannequin' is used. It refers to a minor character who does modelling. I cannot recall exactly when the book was written, but my guess is between 1932 and 1937. -marie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 11:59:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA13357 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 11:59:18 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA13466; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:20:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA22470 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:06:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA22443 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:06:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.217.218.67] (ell83.acadia.net [205.217.218.67]) by p2.acadia.net (8.8.5/8.8.6) with SMTP id MAA06926 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 12:06:43 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 12:06:44 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: utility clothing/New Look Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) <> It was at the Museum of London, and they still had copies of the catalog in their bookshop last spring, so you might contact them. Deborah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 12:03:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA13392 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 12:03:16 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA14418; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:24:40 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA23413 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:11:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from public.ndh.com (public.ndh.net [194.97.97.21]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA23408 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:11:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from Andrea (port089.koeln.ndh.net [195.94.92.89]) by public.ndh.com (8.8.7/8.8.0) with ESMTP id SAA24516 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 18:11:00 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <36A4DA8C.7158015B@ndh.net> Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 20:18:44 +0100 From: Andrea Clef X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [de] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re:Dior book X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------2BA0424C8A9069C6B233FC07" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Andrea Clef --------------2BA0424C8A9069C6B233FC07 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > >2. The book states that models were called mannequins prior to WW2. Has > >anyone heard of this before? What was the reason for the change of name? > > I remember models being called "Mannequins" in Germany before the fashion > craze of the 1990s, when modelling became hip and a showbiz-like way of > making a career. The term "model" came over from America or the > international fashion scene. > > Not contradicting earlier uses of the word "model". > At least that's my impression... Dietmar?? > > Barbara Maren > I can only verify that. My grandmother and mother never used the term "model" before it appeared in magazines and Claudia Schiffer became famous. The usual expression was "mannequin" which originates from the French. But now it has got lost almost completely. Diana --------------2BA0424C8A9069C6B233FC07 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 
>
>2.  The book states that models were called mannequins prior to WW2.  Has
>anyone heard of this before?  What was the reason for the change of name?

I remember models being called "Mannequins" in Germany before the fashion
craze of the 1990s, when modelling became hip and a showbiz-like way of
making a career. The term "model" came over from America or the
international fashion scene.

Not contradicting earlier uses of the word "model".
At least that's my impression... Dietmar??

Barbara Maren
I can only verify that.
My grandmother and mother never used the term "model" before it appeared in
magazines and Claudia Schiffer became famous.
The usual expression was "mannequin" which originates from the French.
But now it has got lost almost completely.

Diana --------------2BA0424C8A9069C6B233FC07-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 12:59:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA13717 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 12:59:06 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA23295; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 11:20:19 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA07003 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 11:07:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from m2.jersey.juno.com (m2.jersey.juno.com [209.67.34.60]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA06992 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 11:06:59 -0700 (MST) Received: (from kimberlykdobbs@juno.com) by m2.jersey.juno.com (queuemail) id DZCH8P6R; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 13:05:23 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:57:41 -0600 Subject: H-COST: Digest??? Message-ID: <19990119.120032.-142239.3.kimberlykdobbs@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-4,6-9 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Kimberly K Dobbs Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kimberly K Dobbs Hi everyone, Can someone tell me how to switch to digest on this list? I have tried everything I know how and it still isn't working. Help!! Thanks in advance! Kimberly _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 13:05:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA13781 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 13:05:03 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA24380; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 11:26:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA07969 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 11:12:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from mb06.swip.net (mb06.swip.net [193.12.122.210]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA07949 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 11:12:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from [130.244.77.43] (dialup77-1-43.swipnet.se [130.244.77.43]) by mb06.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA19300 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 19:12:48 +0100 (MET) X-Sender: md21199@dredd.swip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199901191655.KAA11682@post.its.mcw.edu> References: from "SNSpies@aol.com" at Jan 19, 99 00:56:21 am Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 19:13:34 +0100 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Ninni M Pettersson Subject: Re: H-COST: Re:"mannequin" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Ninni M Pettersson At 17.55 +0100 99-01-19, Marie Schulte wrote: >-Poster: Marie Schulte > >In the Dorothy Sayers novel _Have His Carcase_ the term 'mannequin' is >used. It refers to a minor character who does modelling. I cannot recall >exactly when the book was written, but my guess is between 1932 and 1937. It was 1932. Another costume question regarding a Sayers' novel: In _Busman's Honeymoon_, written 1937 (where Harriet and Lord Peter gets married), Harriet Vane's wedding gown is described as "period gown in stiff gold brocade, long sleeves, square neck" and the Dean likens her to "a Renaissance portrait stepped out of it's frame". I've always had great difficulties visualizing this dress. What kind of dress would have been described as a period gown in 1937? What could Renaissance mean in this context - Italian Ren, English Tudor, or what? Are there any photos on the web somewhere that may help me get to grips with this dress? /Ninni Pettersson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 13:17:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA13848 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 13:17:50 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA26962; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 11:38:57 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA10317 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 11:25:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from isomedia.com (root@watson.isomedia.com [207.149.221.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA10305 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 11:25:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from wingate (pm515.isomedia.com [207.149.222.222]) by isomedia.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA09803 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:47:30 -0800 From: "Wylie A. & Gail D. Smith" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Re:"mannequin" Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:25:07 -0800 Message-ID: <001101be43d9$0a697440$47de95cf@wingate> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Wylie A. & Gail D. Smith" That sounds Tudor to me. ~G > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Ninni M Pettersson > Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 1999 10:14 AM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: Re:"mannequin" > > > > -Poster: Ninni M Pettersson > > At 17.55 +0100 99-01-19, Marie Schulte wrote: > >-Poster: Marie Schulte > > > >In the Dorothy Sayers novel _Have His Carcase_ the term 'mannequin' is > >used. It refers to a minor character who does modelling. I > cannot recall > >exactly when the book was written, but my guess is between 1932 and 1937. > > It was 1932. > > Another costume question regarding a Sayers' novel: In _Busman's > Honeymoon_, written 1937 (where Harriet and Lord Peter gets married), > Harriet Vane's wedding gown is described as "period gown in stiff gold > brocade, long sleeves, square neck" and the Dean likens her to "a > Renaissance portrait stepped out of it's frame". I've always had great > difficulties visualizing this dress. What kind of dress would have been > described as a period gown in 1937? What could Renaissance mean in this > context - Italian Ren, English Tudor, or what? Are there any photos on the > web somewhere that may help me get to grips with this dress? > > /Ninni Pettersson > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 14:08:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA14132 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 14:08:44 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA04100; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 12:29:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA18671 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 12:16:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA18608 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 12:16:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA21773 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 20:15:31 +0100 (MET) Received: from pc2 (vp189-136.worldonline.nl [195.241.189.136]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA15582 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 20:15:09 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199901191915.UAA15582@worldonline.nl> From: "Henk 't Jong" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Handbook of German Costume Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 20:18:08 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands Hello, Penny wrote: > I just gave a makeover to one of my websites, Handbuch der Deutschen Tracht > (The Handbook of German Dress). It is located at > http://www.costumegallery.com/germbook.htm This is a German historic > costume book printed in 1892. Sorry to be grumpy again, but I make it a rule not to trust costumebooks earlier than say the seventies of this century (and even then I'm careful). I recognised several of the drawings as being rather inept re-drawings of well known sources (Manesse manuscript, Tourneybook of Roy Rene (not all of them are German!), Albrecht Duerer, Cranach, etc. (of course I only looked at sources from before ca 1530) Especially the medieval ones are rather untrustworthy. DO NOT COPY or try to make a costume after them. By the way, the people in the 'poor sections' were by no means all poor. Common burghers and strolling players, they were, but not many beggars or poor farmers. I suggest: go to the artwork of the real artists (lots on the web), try to see them in colour, and as large as possible. Don';t trust a costumebook of 1892 (or earlier: Braun & Schneider (1861-90) or Viollet le Duc 1880's), because the artists did not know what they were drawing and had no idea about sewing such a costume (as many on this list do) or what is was like to wear it. And even if they reconstructed costume (Mrs Ashdown, early 1900's, Dorothy Hartley 1931, Carl Koehler (costumes made after his patterns ca 1927)) they didn't look at all like the originals. Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 14:31:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA14247 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 14:31:45 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA07649; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 12:53:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA22084 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 12:39:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.31]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA22070 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 12:39:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.34.213 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 11:39:12 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: H-COST: Medieval Textiles and Embroideries of Scandinavia Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 14:27:30 -0500 Message-ID: <000e01be43e4$04c86900$5f14ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Stockholm's Museum of National Antiquities has a stunning web page called The Textile Chamber at http://www.rashm.se/shm/museet/textil/textilkammaren-e.html. The double-cloth and the soumak-woven hanging are my favorites. The hanging portrays people in costume, which is very interesting. One piece of Opus Anglicanum is shown. All too brief, but worth a visit! Don't miss the 19,2 cm Queen's (?) gold broach from the 14th century which looks like a rose window with chimera found in a river in 1818 in the Medieval link at the bottom. Hope H. Dunlap _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 14:48:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA14338 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 14:48:21 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA10702; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 13:09:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA24935 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 12:56:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [195.194.177.11]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA24919 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 12:56:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from csv6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id TAA23269.; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 19:59:43 GMT Received: from staff-Message_Server by csv6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 19:56:01 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5 Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 19:55:52 +0000 From: "KATE M BUNTING" To: Subject: H-COST: Various Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id OAA14338 Status: O -Poster: "KATE M BUNTING" Some comments on topics raised in the last few days' digests - Children's leggings; I wore these with my winter coat as a toddler in the early 50s. They were separate legs, not a pair of trousers, and held up by being anchored to some part of the person by tapes, but I can't remember exactly how! Michael Foreman's "War boy" is published in the UK by Puffin (ISBN 0140342990) Mannequins; my mother was born in 1912 and I've heard her refer to a fashion parade as a "mannequin parade". No idea why the term died out. She has also told me about using leg makeup and drawing fake stocking seams when nylons were unobtainable during the war, but I've never heard of a device for doing both legs at once. Renata - Yes, men commonly wore hats indoors in the 17th century (Pepys complained he had caught a cold from leaving his off) - even in church at this period, although you were supposed to "uncover" in the King's presence. I agree with other posters that wearing caps was more for warmth than consderations of decency, though I suppose a man accustomed to wear a wig must have "felt" naked without it. Kate Bunting Library. University of Derby _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 17:53:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA15504 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 17:53:42 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA10763; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 16:14:45 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA00466 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 16:01:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from beaver.slip.net (beaver.slip.net [207.171.193.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA00426 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 16:01:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.230.133] (helo=default) by beaver.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 102k8p-0003gp-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 15:01:00 -0800 Message-Id: <4.0.2.19990119135448.00a40af0@mail.slip.net> X-Sender: cjcannon@mail.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 13:56:35 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: Dior-stocking seams In-Reply-To: <199901190243_MC2-6724-6E7E@compuserve.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 02:43 AM 1/19/99 -0500, you wrote: > >-Poster: Melanie Wilson > >Having woken up a bit more I think eyeliner was the wrong term to use >(sorry I don't wear makeup !) eyebrow pencil maybe ? Any way it is a soft >leaded pencil, that was designed to be used somewhere near your eyes, >rather than your legs. I know everytime I dress up in 40s stuff out comes >that pencil & my Mum starts drawing on my legs :) I know it was quite a >skill to get it looking straight, try it it's hard ! > >Mel I'll vouch for that. Tried once, just for curiosity, as it's what my Mother & three Aunts did when they were in high school/immed. following. My conclusion? That's what sisters & best friends must be for... :-) Carol Cannon _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 17:53:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA15508 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 17:53:48 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA10786; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 16:14:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA00477 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 16:01:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from beaver.slip.net (beaver.slip.net [207.171.193.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA00431 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 16:01:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.230.133] (helo=default) by beaver.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 102k8r-0003gp-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 15:01:01 -0800 Message-Id: <4.0.2.19990119140001.00a401e0@mail.slip.net> X-Sender: cjcannon@mail.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 14:02:19 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: Dior-stocking seams In-Reply-To: <24344-36A44551-108@mailtod-141.iap.bryant.webtv.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 01:41 AM 1/19/99 -0700, you wrote: > >-Poster: starsinger@webtv.net (theresa sorrell) > >I believe that due to the shortage of silk stockings in WW II, many >women went without stockings. They put the line on the back of their >legs as a fake stockings seam. If you "saw" the seam, you must be >wearing stockings. Nylons were a few years in the future. > >Starsinger Yes, that's it exactly, as my maternal grandmother, who raised 4 who did this told it to me, with my Aunts nodding agreement in the background. Everyone agreed they were glad to be past that time. That was around the Depression in the USA. Not many had money for much that wasn't necessity. I'm not even going to try to explain how eyebrow pencil/mascara came to be a necessity. :-) Carol Cannon _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 18:54:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA16045 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 18:54:43 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA19110; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 17:16:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA09432 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 17:02:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from VAX5.ACER.EDU.AU (vax5.acer.edu.au [203.2.133.50]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA09403 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 17:02:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from exchange.acer.edu.au ([203.2.133.26]) by vms.acer.edu.au (PMDF V5.1-12 #22802) with ESMTP id <01J6RF8X26XY8WX04V@vms.acer.edu.au> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 11:04:09 +1100 Received: by exchange.acer.edu.au with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:57:05 +1100 Content-return: allowed Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:57:04 +1100 From: Harvey Georgia Subject: H-COST: 18th Century Frock Coat on Ebay To: "'H-costume'" , "'sca-garb'" Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Harvey Georgia I don't usually do this, but this coat is *amazing* to look at.... It's an 18th Century man's frock coat, with lots of tapestry, decorated buttons, etc. I found it while browsing on Ebay, and thought there might be at least a few of you who'd like to look at it, before it gets sold. Seems to me the reserve price on it is pretty cheap, but then I don't know enough about either the period or restoration of such a garment. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=57146102 I have absolutely no affiliation with the owner of this coat, just a happy browser :-) Georgia _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 18:59:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA16079 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 18:59:51 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA19574; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 17:21:35 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA10093 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 17:08:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from postal.grin.net (root@postal.grin.net [209.104.220.39]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA10083 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 17:07:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from [208.202.191.37] (ppp-134.pm4-1.grin.net [208.202.189.134]) by postal.grin.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA16407 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 16:07:56 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 16:07:56 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199901191655.KAA11682@post.its.mcw.edu> References: from "SNSpies@aol.com" at Jan 19, 99 00:56:21 am Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: lilinah@grin.net Subject: Re: H-COST: Re:"mannequin" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: lilinah@grin.net "Mannequin" is still the French word for "model". I have a feeling the usage in English changed somewhere between the late 40's to mid-50's, but this isn't backed up by any hard evidence. Lilinah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 19:45:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA16381 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 19:45:48 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA24536; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 18:07:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA15965 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 17:54:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from sun.rmci.net (sun.rmci.net [205.162.184.21]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id RAA15959 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 17:54:00 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 3991 invoked from network); 20 Jan 1999 00:48:14 -0000 Received: from pag-di43.rica.net (HELO rica.net) (209.211.110.43) by sun.rmci.net with SMTP; 20 Jan 1999 00:48:14 -0000 Message-ID: <36A526EA.2685A4A3@rica.net> Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 19:44:26 -0500 From: Jennie Chancey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Getting rid of musty smells? References: <199901200007.TAA16144@sca.uwaterloo.ca> <36A5218F.C0288074@best.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Jennie Chancey I am restoring a 19teens-30s lace wedding gown, remaking the underdress (which was in shreds) and repairing as the original lace overdress. The lace did well through a gentle hand soaking (lots of brown water rinsed out), but it still retains its musty smell. Anyone have any tips on how to get rid of that? Usually I find it goes away or is greatly reduced by the hand washing--but not in this case. Thanks! Jennie -- Sense and Sensibility http://www.sensibility.com winsome clothing with an old-fashioned appeal _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 20:44:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA16694 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 20:44:04 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA01203; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 19:04:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA22623 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 18:51:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from crow.prod.itd.earthlink.net (crow.prod.itd.earthlink.net [209.178.63.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA22612 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 18:50:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from alt1 (sdn-ar-001dcwashP106.dialsprint.net [168.191.20.66]) by crow.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA07061; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 17:50:53 -0800 (PST) From: "Allison Thurman" To: , Subject: H-COST: fashion theory Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 20:53:22 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2212 (4.71.2419.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.0810.800 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Allison Thurman" >From: Laurel Wilson >Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 08:59:05 -0400 >Subject: Re: H-COST: dior and new look >- -Poster: Laurel Wilson >Allison Thurman wrote: >> i believe an issue of 'fashion theory" from last year >> discusses fashion in paris during wwII >Please, more information on this publication!Lauri regrettably, i cant find the article i was thinking of (and im kind of embarassed, because i KNOW i read this and cant find where!) but i did find one in the sept. 1997 issue about the forties fashion to new look exhibit in london - it was at the imperial war museum. fashion theory is a great journal - only 4 times a year but always packed with thought-provoking research. valerie steele is the editor, and the magazine itself is published through berg publishers in england. some specialty sewing shops carry it (like g st in dc) but amazon always seems to have the latest issue as well. allison _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 20:53:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA16754 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 20:53:50 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA01939; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 19:14:32 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA24087 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 19:00:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [209.48.224.31]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA24074 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 19:00:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from lindo (port57.annex4.radix.net [209.48.225.185]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id VAA25021 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:00:42 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199901200200.VAA25021@mail1.radix.net> X-Sender: lindo@pop.radix.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:03:52 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kevin + Mara Riley Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: H-Cost: Your websites In-Reply-To: <990115192214.74072@centum.utulsa.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kevin + Mara Riley >> >>I believe that many of you have got own websites that deal with our >>favorite topic historical costuming!... http://www47.pair.com/lindo/Textiles_Page.htm Regards, Mara Kevin + Mara Riley Home Page http://www.radix.net/~lindo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 21:37:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA17069 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:37:04 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA06916; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 19:59:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA28744 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 19:45:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.erols.com (smtp2.erols.com [207.172.3.235]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA28729 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 19:45:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from s0peladn (207-172-62-56.s56.tnt2.rcm.erols.com [207.172.62.56]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA01715 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:50:16 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00e201be441e$f86181c0$8956accf@s0peladn> From: "Penny E. Ladnier" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: fashion theory Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:45:37 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Penny E. Ladnier" >fashion theory is a great journal - only 4 times a year but always packed >with thought-provoking research. valerie steele is the editor, and the >magazine itself is published through berg publishers in england. some >specialty sewing shops carry it (like g st in dc) but amazon always seems to >have the latest issue as well. Where does Valerie find the time to do all that she does? She must be a never ending source of energy. Thanks for the tip on the journal! Later...Penny http://www.costumegallery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 21:45:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA17106 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:44:59 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA07754; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 20:06:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA29503 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 19:52:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from camel8.mindspring.com (camel8.mindspring.com [207.69.200.58]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA29497 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 19:52:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from Eskimo.mindspring.com (user-37ka8mt.dialup.mindspring.com [207.69.34.221]) by camel8.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA12308 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:52:19 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990119215302.006b233c@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: gunstonian@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:53:02 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Laurie L. Kittle" Subject: Re: H-COST: 18th Century Frock Coat on Ebay In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Laurie L. Kittle" At 10:57 AM 1/20/99 +1100, you wrote: > >It's an 18th Century man's frock coat, with lots of tapestry, decorated >buttons, etc. I found it while browsing on Ebay, and thought there might be >at least a few of you who'd like to look at it, before it gets sold. Seems >to me the reserve price on it is pretty cheap, but then I don't know enough >about either the period or restoration of such a garment. > >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=57146102 I agree it is gorgeous; however, it's not a frock coat--it's a long-sleeved waistcoat or vest. Laurie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 22:42:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA17390 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 22:42:41 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA14253; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:04:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA05932 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 20:50:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from m26.boston.juno.com (m26.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.187]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA05927 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 20:50:54 -0700 (MST) From: wench359@juno.com Received: (from wench359@juno.com) by m26.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id DZDKMMVU; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 22:49:09 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 19:42:00 -0800 Subject: H-COST: Q - Lace repair Message-ID: <19990119.194814.-263427.4.Wench359@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-3,5-6,8-9,11-19 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: wench359@juno.com My latest thrift score: A nice Edwardian(?) petticoat, with a drawstring waist and *lots* of pintucking and lace. The bottom layer of lace is torn, but not too badly. The rip is about 4". I'd like to repair the rip, but don't know where to begin. Recommended needle type, size? Thread type? The petticoat is also in need of cleaning. Would hand washing it in quilt soap be appropriate? Any and all assisstance greatly appreciated :) - Cat ---------------------------------------------- Mistress of Pewter Wench #359, Int'l Wenches Guild Executive Babysitter Starquest '97- '98 ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 22:43:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA17397 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 22:43:11 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA14360; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:05:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA05992 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 20:51:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA05985 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 20:51:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip11.an5-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.16.11]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA24277 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 19:51:28 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36A542FA.360675AC@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 22:44:10 -0400 From: Laurel Wilson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03C-NSCP (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST:OT/babushka References: <199901191433.IAA10515@naos.cc.umanitoba.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Laurel Wilson Linda Lassman wrote: > Around here, where there is a large Ukrainian (and a somewhat smaller Russian) > community, "babushka" is the formal term for "grandmother" (and also for the > scarves they traditionally wear--but you all know that ;-) ), but most people > actually refer to their "baba". It seems to be the same term in both > languages. "Bubbe" is the Yiddish/Jewish word for grandmother (as in "bubbemeise," which means 'old wives' tales'). It's usually pronounced 'bubba'--I wonder if they're related words. Lauri _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 22:57:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA17477 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 22:57:24 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA16437; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:18:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA07311 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:04:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.netwiz.net (Mail.NetWiz.Net [208.136.106.6]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA07306 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:04:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from slave (BayArea56k473.NetWiz.Net [208.164.208.73]) by mail.netwiz.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id UAA18557 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 20:04:47 -0800 Message-ID: <36A554D8.6560@netwiz.net> Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 20:00:24 -0800 From: Susan Fatemi X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: spun silk References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Susan Fatemi Emma Elizabeth Lehman wrote: > > -Poster: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> > > Okay, so what's the difference between "reeled" and "spun"? > Emma the Non-Spinner I know! I know! (hand waving in air) Silk is normally "reeled" off the cocoon in one long filament. Many strands are then plied (is this the right word, guys??) together. When the cocoons are broken, either because the moth got out or the filament broke, the broken fibers are spun like cotton or wool. While reeled silk is considered higher quality, cloth made from spun silk has "slubs" and more texture. In Japanese, it's called "tsumugi". Dupioni is supposed to be woven from double cocoons. Susan F. -- Oh Noh! Kimonos! susanf@netwiz.net http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 23:11:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA17552 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 23:11:49 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA18637; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:33:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA09109 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:19:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA09100 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:19:51 -0700 (MST) From: Appin1@aol.com Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id LRVEa00804 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 23:18:56 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 23:18:56 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Wintersilks Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 230 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Appin1@aol.com I don't know about that, but I DID get a Christmas (holiday) issue for 1998, so I guess they're still around. Order from them, so maybe their financial postion will improve! Kathleen Norvell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 23:21:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA17605 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 23:21:09 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA20629; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:42:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA10094 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:28:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA10080 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:28:15 -0700 (MST) From: Seton1355@aol.com Received: from Seton1355@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 2NTGa06035 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 23:25:25 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <649380ed.36a55ab5@aol.com> Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 23:25:25 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Q - Lace repair Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 236 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Seton1355@aol.com First, I'd bet the pettycoat needs to be cleaned. Since I cannot see your pettycoat, I'd suggest first swishing it around in a solution of hydrogen peroxide & water.(50-50) Hydrogen peroxide is a kind of bleach...we use it to clean our mouths sometimes, so you can be sure it's gentle. If that doesn't "Whiten" your petticoat, then try Ivory Soap, the stuff you wash baby clothes in. Be sure to hand wash in a basin and also get all of the soap OUT of the peticoat after you've washed it. Is the lace completely missing from the bottom of the peticoat or just kind of hanging there? I strongly suggest that, assuming it is cotton, use only cotton thread to repair the petticoat. If you use a blend thread like cotton covered polyester , the cotton covering the polyester thread eventually wears off, exposing the polyester and the polyester part is much stronger than cotton, and acts like a knife, cutting through the petticoat. I lost a quilt this way once! I would try to match up the size of the thread to the size of the threads making up the petticoat. This should be no real problem. If the petticoat is like ones I have, your regular cotton thread should do just fine. If the petticoat is of a very, very fine cloth, then take it to a speciality threads/fabric store & see what size threads they have. Of course, mend it by hand (oh, use a small, sharp embroidry needle, or a "between" needle used in quilting would be best.) Take your time & make small stitches. You'll be just fine! Good luck Phillipa _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 23:23:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA17625 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 23:23:44 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA21130; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:45:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA10727 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:32:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA10718 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:31:59 -0700 (MST) From: Appin1@aol.com Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id AGNHa20554 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 23:31:13 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <12efa2b1.36a55c11@aol.com> Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 23:31:13 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Joy Trim Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 230 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Appin1@aol.com Joy Trim is in Wilmington, DE. Kathleen Norvell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 23:28:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA17653 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 23:28:50 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA21519; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:49:54 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA11100 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:36:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from VAX5.ACER.EDU.AU (vax5.acer.edu.au [203.2.133.50]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA11075 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:35:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from exchange.acer.edu.au ([203.2.133.26]) by vms.acer.edu.au (PMDF V5.1-12 #22802) with ESMTP id <01J6ROT1S9HU8WX0XW@vms.acer.edu.au> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 15:37:38 +1100 Received: by exchange.acer.edu.au with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 15:30:37 +1100 Content-return: allowed Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 15:30:36 +1100 From: Harvey Georgia Subject: Re:H-COST: Getting rid of musty smells? To: "'H-costume'" Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Harvey Georgia - -Poster: Jennie Chancey I am restoring a 19teens-30s lace wedding gown, remaking the underdress (which was in shreds) and repairing as the original lace overdress. The lace did well through a gentle hand soaking (lots of brown water rinsed out), but it still retains its musty smell. Anyone have any tips on how to get rid of that? Usually I find it goes away or is greatly reduced by the hand washing--but not in this case. -- Jennie I usually find that adding a couple of drops of lavender oil to whatever I'm rinsing helps. I'm not sure of its effect on the fabric though...but as long as I add the oil to the water and swish it round, I've not had any problems with it on silks, or other materials. This is just what works for me - might be worth testing a small area of the dress? Georgia _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 23:32:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA17677 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 23:32:54 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA22192; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:54:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA11497 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:40:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from wilma.widomaker.com (smtp@wilma.widomaker.com [204.17.220.5]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA11488 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:40:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.96.178.25] by wilma.widomaker.com with smtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for h-costume@indra.com id 102pRj-00025Q-00; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 23:40:51 -0500 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19990120043930.006fab14@mail.widomaker.com> X-Sender: rcarnegie@mail.widomaker.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 23:39:30 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Ron Carnegie Subject: Re: H-COST: 18th Century Frock Coat on Ebay Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Ron Carnegie At 10:57 AM 1/20/99 +1100, you wrote: > >-Poster: Harvey Georgia > >I don't usually do this, but this coat is *amazing* to look at.... > >It's an 18th Century man's frock coat, with lots of tapestry, decorated >buttons, etc. I found it while browsing on Ebay, and thought there might be >at least a few of you who'd like to look at it, before it gets sold. Seems >to me the reserve price on it is pretty cheap, but then I don't know enough >about either the period or restoration of such a garment. > They have the thing misnamed. It is not a Frock coat (which is actually a style of coat) it is not even a coat. It is a sleeved waistcoat. This is why the fashion fabric (brocade) is only on the front and at the cuffs. It is also why the sleeves are so tight fitting and the lacing up the rear. It is earlier than our period, and designed to be worn under the coat. Cheers, Ron Carnegie rcarnegie@widomaker.com ************************************************* "The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground walked other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow." G.M. Trevelyan ************************************************* _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 23:36:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA17701 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 23:36:13 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA22691; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:58:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA11987 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:44:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from wilma.widomaker.com (smtp@wilma.widomaker.com [204.17.220.5]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA11977 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:44:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.96.178.25] by wilma.widomaker.com with smtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for h-costume@indra.com id 102pVA-0002Bg-00; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 23:44:25 -0500 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19990120044304.006b6f40@mail.widomaker.com> X-Sender: rcarnegie@mail.widomaker.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 23:43:04 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Ron Carnegie Subject: Re: H-COST: 18th Century Frock Coat on Ebay Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Ron Carnegie >They have the thing misnamed. It is not a Frock coat (which is actually a style of coat) it is not even a coat. It is a sleeved waistcoat. This is why the fashion fabric (brocade) is only on the front and at the cuffs. It is also why the sleeves are so tight fitting and the lacing up the rear. It is earlier than our period, and designed to be worn under the coat. Whoops...I thought I was posting to a different list. Of course it is not earlier than THIS list's period, it hardly can be ;). Probably dates from the earlier portion of the 18th century, not the third quarter (which the list I thought I was posting is concerned with. Cheers, Ron Carnegie rcarnegie@widomaker.com ************************************************* "The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground walked other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow." G.M. Trevelyan ************************************************* _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 23:55:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA17802 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 23:55:15 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA24923; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 22:15:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA14090 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 22:01:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo28.mx.aol.com (imo28.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.72]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA14083 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 22:01:20 -0700 (MST) From: Appin1@aol.com Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo28.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id HKTNa23173 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 23:59:40 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <6b14dee0.36a562bc@aol.com> Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 23:59:40 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: RE: kakofnitch Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 230 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Appin1@aol.com A kakotchnik is a Russian headdress. I'm sure some one can give you a good definition and a link. Kathleen Norvell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 00:15:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA18518 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 00:15:29 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA26683; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 22:37:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA16920 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 22:23:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.mc.net (mail.mc.net [209.172.128.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id WAA16913 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 22:23:46 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 5256 invoked from network); 20 Jan 1999 05:25:34 -0000 Received: from tntmodem1-221.mc.net (HELO HEATHERL) (209.172.133.221) by mail.mc.net with SMTP; 20 Jan 1999 05:25:34 -0000 Message-ID: <36A58CC5.2194@mc.net> Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 23:59:01 -0800 From: Heather Law Organization: Interstellar Trading Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: tin dress? References: <199901200428.VAA10116@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Rating: mail.mc.net 1.6.1 0/1000/N Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Heather Law At 09:38 19/01/99 -0700, you wrote: >I'm relatively new to the list and hope this question hasn't been answered. >I'm reading _Miss Marjoribanks_ by Mrs. Oliphant with great pleasure, but >am stumped by a reference to a character wearing a "tin dress." She's a >minor character, a tawdry and passionate contralto who lures one of Miss >M's suitors away, and one gathers that her dress is just one more marker of >her unfeminine showiness and tackiness, which she displays in particular >during a contested election. Here's the pertinent description: > >"She . . . was arrayed in the tin dress--her best available garment--which >was made long, according to the fashion, and which, as [she] scorned to >tuck it up, was continually getting trodden on, and talked about, and >reviled at, on that crowded pavement. . . . [The onlookers] saw, and even >it might be said heard, the sweep of the metallic garment, which was >undersgoing such rough usage, and which was her best, poor soul." > >Does anyone know what a "tin dress" is? How was it made--sheets of tin, or >some sort of knitted tin/fibre yarn? > >Thanks, >Anita Hemphill McCormick > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 00:35:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA18616 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 00:35:05 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA28936; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 22:57:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA18564 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 22:43:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA18556 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 22:43:25 -0700 (MST) From: Appin1@aol.com Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 7VFUa06037 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 00:42:35 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <2b77f26a.36a56ccb@aol.com> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 00:42:35 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: 18th Century Frock Coat on Ebay Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 230 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Appin1@aol.com It looks like a sleeved waistcoat to me. I've never seen an outer frock coat with lacing down the back, or with the front and back in different fabric. Just a "WAG" on my part. Any other opinions? Kathleen Norvell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 03:57:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA25558 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 03:57:10 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id CAA11691; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 02:18:40 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id CAA00856 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 02:04:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from beaver.slip.net (beaver.slip.net [207.171.193.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id CAA00847 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 02:04:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.197.21] (helo=slipnet) by beaver.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 102tYs-000676-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 01:04:31 -0800 X-Sender: bridgeta@mail.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 01:02:42 +0000 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Wanda Subject: Re: H-COST: Dior-stocking seams In-Reply-To: <4.0.2.19990119140001.00a401e0@mail.slip.net> References: <24344-36A44551-108@mailtod-141.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Wanda they may have used a grease pencil too! So far as i know the one must-have cosmetic was a liipstick! Even during the depression most women had at least one lipstick!At 02:02 PM 1/19/99 -0800, you wrote: > >-Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" > >At 01:41 AM 1/19/99 -0700, you wrote: >> >>-Poster: starsinger@webtv.net (theresa sorrell) >> >>I believe that due to the shortage of silk stockings in WW II, many >>women went without stockings. They put the line on the back of their >>legs as a fake stockings seam. If you "saw" the seam, you must be >>wearing stockings. Nylons were a few years in the future. >> >>Starsinger > Yes, that's it exactly, as my maternal grandmother, who raised 4 >who did this told it to me, with my Aunts nodding agreement in the >background. Everyone agreed they were glad to be past that time. That was >around the Depression in the USA. Not many had money for much that wasn't >necessity. I'm not even going to try to explain how eyebrow pencil/mascara >came to be a necessity. :-) Carol Cannon > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 04:44:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA25857 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 04:44:45 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id DAA12912; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 03:07:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id CAA02777 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 02:53:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail-gw.pacbell.net (mail-gw.pacbell.net [206.13.28.25]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id CAA02772 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 02:53:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-68-224.irvn11.pacbell.net [206.170.68.224]) by mail-gw.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with ESMTP id BAA21942 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 01:52:39 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36A53858.3B2E9BBF@pacbell.net> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 01:58:54 +0000 From: Dietmar Organization: Completely Disorganized X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-PBI-NC404 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: Dior book References: <3.0.5.32.19990119124031.00983480@130.149.12.212> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Dietmar Greetings all, Barbara wrote: > I remember models being called "Mannequins" in Germany before the > fashion craze of the 1990s, when modelling became hip and a showbiz- > like way of making a career. The term "model" came over from America > or the international fashion scene. > > Not contradicting earlier uses of the word "model". > At least that's my impression... Dietmar?? I'm sorry, but I'll have to defer to those who know better than I. Haute culture was never my strong suit (no pun intended) and I live in the States, so I don't know the jargon. Dietmar "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 05:15:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA26027 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 05:15:53 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id DAA13734; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 03:38:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id DAA18348 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 03:24:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail-gw2.pacbell.net (mail-gw2.pacbell.net [206.13.28.53]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id DAA18212 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 03:24:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-68-224.irvn11.pacbell.net [206.170.68.224]) by mail-gw2.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with ESMTP id CAA26456 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 02:23:51 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36A53F8C.815C909@pacbell.net> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 02:29:41 +0000 From: Dietmar Organization: Completely Disorganized X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-PBI-NC404 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: OT/babushka References: <199901191433.IAA10515@naos.cc.umanitoba.ca> <36A542FA.360675AC@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Dietmar Greetings all, Lauri wrote: > "Bubbe" is the Yiddish/Jewish word for grandmother (as in "bubbemeise," > which means 'old wives' tales'). It's usually pronounced 'bubba'--I > wonder if they're related words. In German, the word 'bube' means 'boy', and I'd be really surprised if there was that big a difference between the German and the Yiddish. Yiddish is a Germanic language (the word 'yiddish' comes from MHG 'juedisch'). But then, I don't speak Yiddish at all. Perhaps, since Yiddish comes from Eastern Europe, there is a connection. Speculating wildly, Dietmar "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 05:21:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA26057 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 05:21:35 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id DAA13929; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 03:44:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id DAA24779 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 03:29:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail-gw2.pacbell.net (mail-gw2.pacbell.net [206.13.28.53]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id DAA24656 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 03:29:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-68-224.irvn11.pacbell.net [206.170.68.224]) by mail-gw2.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with ESMTP id CAA27172; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 02:29:34 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36A540D8.62FC682B@pacbell.net> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 02:35:13 +0000 From: Dietmar Organization: Completely Disorganized X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-PBI-NC404 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com, JennieChancey Subject: Re: H-COST: Getting rid of musty smells? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Dietmar Greetings all, Jennie wrote: > I am restoring a 19teens-30s lace wedding gown, remaking the underdress > (which was in shreds) and repairing as the original lace overdress. The > lace did well through a gentle hand soaking (lots of brown water rinsed > out), but it still retains its musty smell. Anyone have any tips on how > to get rid of that? Usually I find it goes away or is greatly reduced > by the hand washing--but not in this case. I've heard great things about the product known as 'Fabreeze'. It's available at the grocery store. You simply spray it on and it lifts the smells out as it dries. I've never tried it though. A friend of mine uses vodka. Buy some el cheapo vodka without flavorings or scents. (Believe it or not some vodkas have them.) Dilute it in half or one fourth with water in a spray bottle. Lightly mist the fabric until it is damp and let it air dry. It's worked wonderfully. In service, Dietmar "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 05:32:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA26124 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 05:32:17 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id DAA14266; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 03:53:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id DAA09971 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 03:39:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail-gw3.pacbell.net (mail-gw3.pacbell.net [206.13.28.55]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id DAA09864 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 03:39:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-68-224.irvn11.pacbell.net [206.170.68.224]) by mail-gw3.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with ESMTP id CAA10010 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 02:39:26 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36A5432E.AA0028C8@pacbell.net> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 02:45:12 +0000 From: Dietmar Organization: Completely Disorganized X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-PBI-NC404 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: Coffee Darkening References: <199901161916.OAA18940@jefferson.patriot.net> <36A28415.1526FEA0@pacbell.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Dietmar Greetings all, I had written, > I found some wonderful raw silk in a bright yellow and I'd like to darken > it to a golden color. I'm not a tea drinker, but coffee is always at hand. > > Is coffee an acceptable substitute for tea darkening? > > Do I need to add salt as a mordant? Just to update everyone, I soaked the fabric today and it came out a nice mustard color. I used about six cups of dark coffee and a cup of salt in about six gallons of water. I didn't bother with decaffeinated coffee. Caffeine is acidic, but there is so little in coffee that it doesn't effect the acidity. Most of the acidity in coffee and tea come from tannin. Besides, I figured that the vinegar bath is more acidic than either coffee or tea. Regards, Dietmar "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 06:39:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA26439 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 06:39:35 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id FAA16751; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 05:02:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id EAA05050 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 04:47:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from onramp.i2k.com (root@onramp.i2k.com [207.75.224.3]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id EAA05045 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 04:47:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from raille(o7du15.i2k.com[198.110.185.15]) (1438 bytes) by onramp.i2k.com via sendmail with P:smtp/R:bind_dns/T:smtp (sender: ) id for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 06:40:47 -0500 (EST) (Smail-3.2.0.99 1997-Dec-4 #30 built 1998-Oct-10) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990120065432.007ad100@onramp.i2k.com> X-Sender: alwen@onramp.i2k.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 06:54:32 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Lynn Carpenter Subject: H-COST: British Museum question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lynn Carpenter One of my 11th century "sources" of costume information is an illustration in the front of a book called "British Poetry and Prose." The description reads, "Decorations on an Old English calendar show scenes from the daily life of Anglo-Saxon England. The illustration below, for the month of March, show laborers at the spring fieldwork. The manuscript of the calendar was done by monks at Durham in the eleventh century; it narrowly escaped destruction in 1731 in the same fire that damaged the Beowulf manuscript." The illustration has "(c) British Museum" at the top and shows four men in long-sleeved, knee-length tunics, either bloused or tucked into belts, raking, digging, and broadcasting seed. My question is, has the British Museum (or anywhere else) published this calendar? Does anyone know where I could find the rest of the months? I am sorry the information is so scanty, but that is all that is in the book. Lynn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 08:29:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA27101 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 08:29:40 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id GAA21804; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 06:51:31 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id GAA11167 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 06:36:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id GAA11159 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 06:36:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.217.218.28] (ell44.acadia.net [205.217.218.28]) by p2.acadia.net (8.8.5/8.8.6) with SMTP id IAA07402 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 08:36:44 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 08:36:47 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: reeled silk Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) <> Reeled silk is not plied together (which implies twisting), but several strands of the filaments are reeled off together, and the seracin sort of gums them together. About six or eight cocoons reeled together constitute a denier. <> Dupioni means double cocoon, and since the two are woven together, they can't be reeled, and so are either used for wadding or chopped up and spun. Deborah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 09:23:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA27435 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:23:56 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA27593; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 07:46:59 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA16291 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 07:32:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from x15.engin.umich.edu (root@x15.engin.umich.edu [141.212.198.14]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA16277 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 07:32:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (parsla@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by x15.engin.umich.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA07082 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:32:06 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:32:06 -0500 (EST) From: Parsla Liepa To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: OT/Yiddish In-Reply-To: <36A53F8C.815C909@pacbell.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Parsla Liepa > > "Bubbe" is the Yiddish/Jewish word for grandmother (as in "bubbemeise," > > which means 'old wives' tales'). It's usually pronounced 'bubba'--I > > wonder if they're related words. > > In German, the word 'bube' means 'boy', and I'd be really surprised if there > was that big a difference between the German and the Yiddish. Yiddish is a > Germanic language (the word 'yiddish' comes from MHG 'juedisch'). But then, I > don't speak Yiddish at all. Perhaps, since Yiddish comes from Eastern Europe, > there is a connection. I was actually taught that Yiddish is a Pigeon (or a Creole, I don't rememebr which...), a strange combination of Hebrew and whatever the local language was. So you would get Russian-Yiddish, Polish-Yiddish, German-Yiddish, and so forth. Parsla _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 09:25:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA27453 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:25:51 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA27848; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 07:48:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA16511 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 07:33:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from x15.engin.umich.edu (root@x15.engin.umich.edu [141.212.198.14]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA16500 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 07:33:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (parsla@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by x15.engin.umich.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA07088 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:33:49 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:33:49 -0500 (EST) From: Parsla Liepa To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Getting rid of musty smells? In-Reply-To: <36A540D8.62FC682B@pacbell.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Parsla Liepa Wouldn't rubbing alcohol do the same thing, but more cheaply? Parsla > A friend of mine uses vodka. Buy some el cheapo vodka without flavorings or > scents. (Believe it or not some vodkas have them.) Dilute it in half or one > fourth with water in a spray bottle. Lightly mist the fabric until it is damp > and let it air dry. It's worked wonderfully. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 09:30:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA27496 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:30:17 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA28461; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 07:53:00 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA17022 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 07:38:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.30]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA17007 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 07:38:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.20.16 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 06:37:45 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Re: Coffee Darkening Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:40:56 -0500 Message-ID: <000201be4483$12ca3980$1014ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <36A5432E.AA0028C8@pacbell.net> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Silk enjoys a bit of acid, and it helps it to maintain its luster. Indians wash their saris in nothing but a little lime juice and water, and I've read other manufacturer's directions for washing silk, which recommend shampoo or similar soap with a final rinse of water and a teaspoon of white vinegar. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Dietmar Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 1999 9:45 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: Coffee Darkening -Poster: Dietmar Greetings all, I had written, > I found some wonderful raw silk in a bright yellow and I'd like to darken > it to a golden color. I'm not a tea drinker, but coffee is always at hand. > > Is coffee an acceptable substitute for tea darkening? > > Do I need to add salt as a mordant? Just to update everyone, I soaked the fabric today and it came out a nice mustard color. I used about six cups of dark coffee and a cup of salt in about six gallons of water. I didn't bother with decaffeinated coffee. Caffeine is acidic, but there is so little in coffee that it doesn't effect the acidity. Most of the acidity in coffee and tea come from tannin. Besides, I figured that the vinegar bath is more acidic than either coffee or tea. Regards, Dietmar "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 09:30:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA27500 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:30:21 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA28391; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 07:52:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA16982 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 07:38:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.19]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA16966 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 07:38:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.20.16 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 06:37:35 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: tin dress? Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:21:35 -0500 Message-ID: <000001be4483$09d96800$1014ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <36A58CC5.2194@mc.net> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Where does the story take place? And in what time period? Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Heather Law Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 1999 2:59 AM To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: tin dress? -Poster: Heather Law At 09:38 19/01/99 -0700, you wrote: >I'm relatively new to the list and hope this question hasn't been answered. >I'm reading _Miss Marjoribanks_ by Mrs. Oliphant with great pleasure, but >am stumped by a reference to a character wearing a "tin dress." She's a >minor character, a tawdry and passionate contralto who lures one of Miss >M's suitors away, and one gathers that her dress is just one more marker of >her unfeminine showiness and tackiness, which she displays in particular >during a contested election. Here's the pertinent description: > >"She . . . was arrayed in the tin dress--her best available garment--which >was made long, according to the fashion, and which, as [she] scorned to >tuck it up, was continually getting trodden on, and talked about, and >reviled at, on that crowded pavement. . . . [The onlookers] saw, and even >it might be said heard, the sweep of the metallic garment, which was >undersgoing such rough usage, and which was her best, poor soul." > >Does anyone know what a "tin dress" is? How was it made--sheets of tin, or >some sort of knitted tin/fibre yarn? > >Thanks, >Anita Hemphill McCormick > ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 09:30:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA27504 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:30:38 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA28445; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 07:52:58 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA17005 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 07:38:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.18]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA16995 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 07:38:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.20.16 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 06:37:42 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Re: OT/babushka Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:29:54 -0500 Message-ID: <000101be4483$10d2af40$1014ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <36A53F8C.815C909@pacbell.net> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" "Bubbe" is indeed the affectionate, informal Yiddish term for grandmother, as in "my Bubbe and Zede," meaning "my Grandma and Grandpa," and it is still used today by members of the American Jewish community. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Dietmar Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 1999 9:30 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: OT/babushka -Poster: Dietmar Greetings all, Lauri wrote: > "Bubbe" is the Yiddish/Jewish word for grandmother (as in "bubbemeise," > which means 'old wives' tales'). It's usually pronounced 'bubba'--I > wonder if they're related words. In German, the word 'bube' means 'boy', and I'd be really surprised if there was that big a difference between the German and the Yiddish. Yiddish is a Germanic language (the word 'yiddish' comes from MHG 'juedisch'). But then, I don't speak Yiddish at all. Perhaps, since Yiddish comes from Eastern Europe, there is a connection. Speculating wildly, Dietmar "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 09:47:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA27613 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:47:30 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA00765; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 08:10:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA19501 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 07:55:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA19491 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 07:55:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA19910 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:59:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.8.4/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA16906 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:57:07 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:57:06 -0500 (EST) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Fabricclub.com review Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: aleed Just thought I'd let you all know what kind of linen it is that Fabricclub.com sells--my order arrived yesterday. It's a smooth weave, somewhat finer than the rather coarsely woven "linen-look" fabric you find at Jo-Anns & other local fabric stores, but not by much. It has more of a shine to it as well, and a very nice drape. Not handkerchief weight by any means, but good for, say, a lower- to middle-class 16th c. bodice, kirtle or jacket. at $5 a yard, I call it a great deal! Two thumbs up, Drea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 09:55:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA27675 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:55:05 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA01701; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 08:18:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA20445 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 08:03:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.19]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA20435 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 08:03:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.20.16 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 07:02:54 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Re: OT/Yiddish Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:06:29 -0500 Message-ID: <000301be4486$945ecda0$1014ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Recognizing the strong similarity between German and Yiddish, I've always felt that it was a "pigeon" or hybrid type of language too. Jewish people sometimes find this concept offensive, saying Yiddish is an independent language in its own right. Whatever! There are no pure anythings, and haven't ever been, as near as I can tell. People are always borrowing from other cultures, it is just human nature. I was reading an ancient diatribe against the Vikings the other day, in which the complainer claimed that everything good in the Viking culture was not invented by a Viking, but borrowed from the Sythians! I won't tread on that one further, but I don't think Yiddish integrates Russian and Polish to anywhere near the same degree as German. My observation is that Yiddish was (an still is, of course) a language which connected Jews across national boundaries, just as nomadic peoples above the Arctic Circle around the globe all speak Inuit, regardless of the national language used by the government of the place where they are. For the Ashkenazi Jews in the northern and eastern European areas including Germany, Poland, and Russia, their common language was Yiddish. For the Sephardic Jews of Spain, Italy, Morocco, and other Mediterranean areas, their common language was Ladino. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Parsla Liepa Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 1999 9:32 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: OT/Yiddish -Poster: Parsla Liepa > > "Bubbe" is the Yiddish/Jewish word for grandmother (as in "bubbemeise," > > which means 'old wives' tales'). It's usually pronounced 'bubba'--I > > wonder if they're related words. > > In German, the word 'bube' means 'boy', and I'd be really surprised if there > was that big a difference between the German and the Yiddish. Yiddish is a > Germanic language (the word 'yiddish' comes from MHG 'juedisch'). But then, I > don't speak Yiddish at all. Perhaps, since Yiddish comes from Eastern Europe, > there is a connection. I was actually taught that Yiddish is a Pigeon (or a Creole, I don't rememebr which...), a strange combination of Hebrew and whatever the local language was. So you would get Russian-Yiddish, Polish-Yiddish, German-Yiddish, and so forth. Parsla ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 09:57:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA27685 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:57:54 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA01966; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 08:20:58 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA20813 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 08:06:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.85]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA20800 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 08:06:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip14.an3-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.14.14]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA18009 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 07:06:09 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36A5E386.FB514CFB@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:09:12 -0400 From: Laurel Wilson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03C-NSCP (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: spun silk References: <36A554D8.6560@netwiz.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Laurel Wilson Susan Fatemi wrote: > Silk is normally "reeled" off the cocoon in one long filament. > Many strands are then plied (is this the right word, guys??) > together. Precisely the right word. It is my understanding that this is what the silk 'throwing mills' which began to appear in the Middle Ages were doing: that is, plying several strands together to make a thicker, stronger thread. Lauri _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 10:04:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA27729 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:04:03 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA02515; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 08:27:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA21630 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 08:12:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.85]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA21616 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 08:12:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip14.an3-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.14.14]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA24442 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 07:12:23 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36A5E4FE.BB6E03A2@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:15:28 -0400 From: Laurel Wilson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03C-NSCP (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: reeled silk References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Laurel Wilson Deborah Pulliam wrote: > - > > Reeled silk is not plied together (which implies twisting), but several > strands of the filaments are reeled off together, and the seracin sort of > gums them together. About six or eight cocoons reeled together constitute a > denier. > I stand corrected--thank you, this makes perfect sense, and is doubtless what the throwing mills were doing. Lauri _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 10:07:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA27750 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:07:22 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA03076; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 08:30:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA22084 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 08:15:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.85]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA22072 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 08:15:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip14.an3-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.14.14]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA28020 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 07:15:40 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36A5E5C3.539C74D8@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:18:45 -0400 From: Laurel Wilson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03C-NSCP (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: OT/Yiddish References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Laurel Wilson Parsla Liepa wrote: > I was actually taught that Yiddish is a Pigeon (or a Creole, I don't > rememebr which...), a strange combination of Hebrew and whatever the local > language was. So you would get Russian-Yiddish, Polish-Yiddish, > German-Yiddish, and so forth. > > Actually, there aren't that many variants of Yiddish, or at least the ones there are are relatively close to each other. It's based on Medieval German, with some Hebrew and smatterings of all the other Eastern European languages, as well as some surprises: for instance, the Yiddish word 'aipikorus' (sp?), which means atheist, comes from the Greek Epicurus, who was a Stoic philosopher. My guess is that the Yiddish 'bubbe' really is related to the Russian 'baba'.Lauri _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 10:19:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA27826 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:19:57 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA04789; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 08:42:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA23933 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 08:28:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA23919; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 08:28:04 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 08:28:04 -0700 (MST) From: Elizabeth Lear Message-Id: <199901201528.IAA23919@indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: RE: kakofnitch Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Elizabeth Lear Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA27841 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:20:32 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA04911; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 08:43:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA24035 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 08:28:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA24020; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 08:28:38 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 08:28:38 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199901201528.IAA24020@indra.com> From: Hilary Doda To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #65 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Hilary Doda Laurel Wilson wrote: >"Bubbe" is the Yiddish/Jewish word for grandmother (as in >"bubbemeise," which means 'old wives' tales'). It's usually >pronounced 'bubba'--I wonder if they're related words. As far as I know, Bubbe (Bubby, Boba, Baba, etc) comes from the hebrew word for Grandmother - Saba. The word for Grandfather is Safta, which gets transformed into Zaide. I don't remember where I picked up that tidbit, tho'. Possibly congregational school... anyone know a different source? ObCostume: I've been embroidering fake (plastic and glass) pearls onto cotton velveteen. I will eventually need to get the penciled-on guidelines off. I don't want to put it in the laundry, as I have a vision of it coming out all melted. The pencil lines are on the reverse (non-piled) side, and the fabric is 100% cotton. What's the best way to do this? Dabbing with a cloth? Shout stick? ;) Hilary Doda/Joane Steward _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 10:42:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA27972 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:42:03 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA07674; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:04:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA28013 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 08:50:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA27988; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 08:50:01 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 08:50:01 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199901201550.IAA27988@indra.com> From: Kristi Kelly To: h-costume list Subject: H-COST: Regency gown pattern suggestions Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kristi Kelly Hi, My girlfriend is going to a Regency wedding and needs a dress. I am looking for a pattern and I hope someone can point me in the right direction. Any material and trim pointers would be great! Also, any idea of what to do with one's hair? Hats were in? or were they just naked curls? Also, does the movie Emma with Gwyenth Paltrow give a reasonable idea of what the clothes looked like? Are there any other places that we should look? Thanks for your help in advance. IMPORTANT: I am not on the list, please send your responses directly to my email address. Thanks Kristi _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 11:22:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA28220 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 11:22:01 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA13990; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:45:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA07681 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:30:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com (imo14.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA07644 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:29:56 -0700 (MST) From: Luiseach@aol.com Received: from Luiseach@aol.com by imo14.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id LEJLa05506 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 11:24:32 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 11:24:32 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: OT/Yiddish Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 84 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Luiseach@aol.com In a message dated 01/20/99 06:32:46 AM, Parsla wrote: <> Basically the difference is that a pidgin language is only used for communication between groups, i.e. all speakers of a pidgin have another language as their first language. When a language that started out as a pidgin starts to be used as a first language, it becomes a creole. Yiddish is a creole and has been for centuries. Pidgin English is not actually a pidgin anymore, it has become a creole also. Lucinda, who had to take linguistics to get a speech/language patholigist credential _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 11:42:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA28336 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 11:42:02 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA16699; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:04:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA11337 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:49:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from mamenchi.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE (mamenchi.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE [130.149.4.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA11269 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:48:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.zrz.tu-berlin.de ([130.149.4.15]) by mamenchi.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE with esmtp (EXIM-2.10) for id 1030oJ-0005jP-00; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:48:55 +0100 Received: from coal.bg.tu-berlin.de by mail.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE with SMTP (IC-PP); Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:48:28 +0100 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990120174913.009a0c30@130.149.12.212> X-Sender: barbara@130.149.12.212 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:49:13 +0100 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Barbara Maren Winkler Subject: H-COST: Re: OT/babushka/Yiddish In-Reply-To: <199901201432.HAA16301@indra.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id LAA28336 Status: O -Poster: Barbara Maren Winkler >- -Poster: Dietmar > >> "Bubbe" is the Yiddish/Jewish word for grandmother (as in "bubbemeise," >> which means 'old wives' tales'). It's usually pronounced 'bubba'--I >> wonder if they're related words. > >In German, the word 'bube' means 'boy', and I'd be really surprised if there >was that big a difference between the German and the Yiddish. Yiddish is a >Germanic language (the word 'yiddish' comes from MHG 'juedisch'). But then, I >don't speak Yiddish at all. Perhaps, since Yiddish comes from Eastern Europe, >there is a connection. >- -Poster: Parsla Liepa > >I was actually taught that Yiddish is a Pigeon (or a Creole, I don't >rememebr which...), a strange combination of Hebrew and whatever the local >language was. So you would get Russian-Yiddish, Polish-Yiddish, >German-Yiddish, and so forth. Yiddish: Grandma -- "Babe" or "Bobe" or "Bubbe" (English pronunciation) Grandpa -- "sejde" Russian: woman (derogatively), farmer's wife -- "baba" Grandma -- "babka", "babushka" witch -- "Babayaga" Slovak: Grandma -- "Babka" German: Grandma -- "Oma", "Großmutter" Grandpa -- "Opa", "Großvater" Special-style scarf, hose shaped, used much in the navy -- "Oma" Boy -- "Bube" (obsolete) Yiddish: Language of Eastern Europe Jews. A pigeon language with germanic, semitic and slavic elements: From mediaeval German (largest part), semitic: Hebrew and Aramaic (from the Talmud), slavic: Polish, Ukrainian, white Russian. Oldest written document in Yiddish: 1396 (That's what my 1955 Brockhaus says). Western Yiddish is closely related to German dialects but obviously vanished due to assimilation of the Jews in Germany and America (19th century). Modern written Yiddish apparently stems from Eastern Yiddish as spoken mainly in Poland. This would be the "u"-variant of Yiddish, spoken by 3/4ths of all yiddish speaking people, as opposed to the "o"-variant in Belarus, Lithuania etc. Yiddish was brought to Poland by German Jews who had to flee from Germany during the time of the crusades and developed there since the end of the middle ages. Most "basic" words are "like German" and even recognizable for a German reader. But there are too many words from other languages for me to really understand it without translation. ... guess which language(s) the Yiddish term for "grandmother" was taken from. Barbara Maren ... who shouldn't be doing this ... -- Barbara Maren Winkler barbara@math.tu-berlin.de _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 12:32:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA28582 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:31:57 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA24766; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:54:24 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA21183 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:39:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA21167 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:39:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA25994 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:42:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.8.4/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA19999 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:40:43 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:40:42 -0500 (EST) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Sources for 16th c. make-up info Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: aleed Hopefully someone on here can help... I've been looking for some good sources, preferably primary or containing primary quotes, on 16th century cosmetics and make-up information. Does anyone know of any good books or articles on the subject? Most of what I know is anecdotal and comes from other people--belladonna in the eyes, mercury water for the complexion, white lead on the face. Does anyone know where I can find the written info? Thanks much, Drea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 12:36:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA28614 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:36:17 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA25908; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:59:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA22186 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:44:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from shepards.com ([192.104.69.10]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id KAA22167 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:44:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from sneffels.shepards.com by shepards.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA19793; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:56:37 -0700 Received: by SNEFFELS with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:44:18 -0700 Message-ID: <5DA4C4BE65D9D111A6FC0060081FD218D39D02@SNEFFELS> From: "Griggs, Margaret (SHEP)" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Sources for 16th c. make-up info Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:44:09 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Griggs, Margaret (SHEP)" Here are a couple of links to start with: Avriel - Beauty products from the Dead Sea - http://www.37.cyberhost.net/avriel/beuatyhis.html Beauty in the 17th Century, http://www.nmm.ac.uk/ei/fact/beauty.html. I don't know how accurate they are but I seem to recall some bib info on one of these sites that may help as well. Maggie margaret.griggs@shepards.com -----Original Message----- From: aleed [mailto:aleed@dnaco.net] Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 1999 10:41 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Sources for 16th c. make-up info -Poster: aleed Hopefully someone on here can help... I've been looking for some good sources, preferably primary or containing primary quotes, on 16th century cosmetics and make-up information. Does anyone know of any good books or articles on the subject? Most of what I know is anecdotal and comes from other people--belladonna in the eyes, mercury water for the complexion, white lead on the face. Does anyone know where I can find the written info? Thanks much, Drea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 12:41:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA28638 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:40:58 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA26731; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 11:04:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA23002 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:49:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from dns1.mcn.org (root@dns1.mcn.org [204.189.12.26]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA22967 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:49:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from 204.189.12.253 (pm25-2-men-a10.mcn.org [204.189.12.137]) by dns1.mcn.org (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id JAA11728 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:49:00 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36A617FD.685B@mcn.org> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:53:08 -0800 From: Fred Struthers X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Hawaiian shirts References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Fred Struthers > > This is slightly off-topic, but I'm hoping someone will have an answer. > > A friend of ours went home to Hawaiian recently and my husband asked him > > to bring back a shirt. It's a cotton print, but the shirt is made so > > that the fabric is wrong-side out. My friend assures me that this is > > the way these shirts are made although he has no idea why. Does anyone > > know why they're made this way? It almost makes me want to take it > > apart and resew it. *almost* :-) Robb Shep tells me that this "wrong-side out" fabric is the taste of the Hawaiians themselves - that shirts made the conventional way were/are made for the mainlanders (this from a curator at the University of Hawaii). Any Hawaiians on the list to vouch for this? -- Fred Struthers http://www.mcn.org/e/fsbks _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 12:41:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA28645 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:41:09 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA26715; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 11:04:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA22991 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:49:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from isomedia.com (root@watson.isomedia.com [207.149.221.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA22957 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:49:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from wingate (pm218.isomedia.com [207.149.222.81]) by isomedia.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA02411 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:10:53 -0800 From: "Wylie A. & Gail D. Smith" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Sources for 16th c. make-up info Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:48:27 -0800 Message-ID: <000901be449d$15b9b980$51de95cf@wingate> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Wylie A. & Gail D. Smith" Drea, There is an SCA publication, The Compleat Anachronist, number 53 from January 1991 on Period Cosmetics for that timeframe that would be helpful. I don't have a copy, but could let you know how to get it from the SCA stock clerk, or our local Canton library for more on the sources. Email me privately if you think this would be helpful. ~G > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of aleed > Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 1999 9:41 AM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: H-COST: Sources for 16th c. make-up info > > > > -Poster: aleed > > > Hopefully someone on here can help... > > I've been looking for some good sources, preferably primary or containing > primary quotes, on 16th century cosmetics and make-up information. Does > anyone know of any good books or articles on the subject? Most of what I > know is anecdotal and comes from other people--belladonna in the eyes, > mercury water for the complexion, white lead on the face. Does anyone > know where I can find the written info? > > Thanks much, > > Drea > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 12:43:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA28655 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:43:39 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA27005; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 11:05:24 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA23207 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:50:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from cats.ucsc.edu (rumpleteazer.UCSC.EDU [128.114.129.45]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA23198 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:50:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from ese.UCSC.EDU (31907@ese.UCSC.EDU [128.114.129.43]) by cats.ucsc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.4.cats-athena) with ESMTP id JAA12813 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:50:23 -0800 (PST) Received: (from ariyana@localhost) by ese.UCSC.EDU (8.8.8/8.8.8.cats-client) id JAA06839; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:50:17 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:50:17 -0800 (PST) From: Ariyana Kylstram X-Sender: ariyana@ese.UCSC.EDU To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #67 In-Reply-To: <199901201649.JAA11357@indra.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Ariyana Kylstram Ok, since only one person has gotten this right so far... a pidgeon is a bird (generally pidg-un, where I come from) pidgin describes a type of language (generally pid-gin -- not gin like the type of alcohol, but rather the same g sound as in again, the short g sound) Sorry, but the repeated abuse of birds to describe language finally got to me. Your frienly neighborhood spelling nazi .ari The Lady Ariyana of House Kylstram ariyana@cats.ucsc.edu http://www.kithrup.com/~ariyana/ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 13:24:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA28894 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 13:23:47 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA03227; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 11:44:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA00511 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 11:29:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.18]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA00503 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 11:29:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.23.190 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:28:25 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: H-COST: Russian Costume/Fort Ross Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 13:32:19 -0500 Message-ID: <000501be44a3$4b864000$1014ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" There is a big website for Fort Ross, the Russian-American sea otter fur trade fort, half-way between San Francisco and Oregon border, at this URL: http://www.mcn.org/ed/ross/gv.htm It links to period paintings of the fort, bibliography, book ordering information, and educational resources and contact names in Russia and Alaska and California. There is one photo of native dress from Irkutsk, Siberia, but I don't know how accurate these beautiful costumes would be for the time period you want to portray. There are photographs of the last living history costume day in July 1997 on the site. There are many women participants, but they are all pictured in American calico frontier dress and cotton bonnets. You can link to the various images here: http://www.mcn.org/ed/ross/Referenc/ref.HTM There are also links to people and information in the native American communites. If you can't find exactly what you need on this site, contact one of the Russians by e-mail and ask your questions. It is not at all clear that the dress with the shoulder straps we have been discussing is at all relevant, as the Russians seem to have originated in Irkutsk, Siberia, not western Russia, where that dress was more common. I don't have the answers, but you should be able to get started here. I've attached a bibliography for your interest: The Fort Ross Museum Bookstore specializes in books about the cultural and natural history of Fort Ross, California, Russian America & the maritime history of the Pacific Rim. PRIMARY REFERENCE MATERIALS ABOUT FORT ROSS INDIANS OF THE ROSS SETTLEMENT According to the Censuses by Kuskov, 1820-1821, Istomin 3.50 OUTPOST OF AN EMPIRE: FORT ROSS THE RUSSIAN COLONY IN CALIFORNIA, Watrous 6.00 (Basic history of Fort Ross during the Russian era.) FORT ROSS BROCHURE, California Department of Parks .50 THE CARETAKERS OF FORT ROSS AFTER RUSSIAN AMERICA, Fort Ross Interpretive Association 6.50 ( The history of Fort Ross after the Russians left to the present.) WALKING TOUR OF FORT ROSS, Fort Ross Interpretive Association .25 SELECTED HISTORY BOOKS ARCHAEOLOGY AND ETHNOHISTORY OF FORT ROSS, Lightfoot 25.00 (Excellent compilation of cultural and natural history of Ross along with contemporary archaeology.) ARCHAEOLOGY AND ETHNOHISTORY OF FORT ROSS, VOL. 2: THE NATIVE ALASKAN NEIGHBORHOOD, Lightfoot 35.00 CROSSROADS OF CONTINENTS, Fitzhugh/Crowell 34.95 (Excellent reference on the native people of the North Pacific Rim.) COLONIAL RUSSIAN AMERICA, Khlebnikov 21.9 (Journal entries written in 1818 by Russian-American Company official. Includes accounts of Fort Ross.) FORT ROSS: CALIFORNIA OUTPOST OF RUSSIAN AMERICA, Essig et.al. 12.50 (A compilation of articles about various aspects of life in the Russian colony.) HANDBOOK OF NORTH AMERICAN INDIANS, Smithsonian Institution Press VOL. 5 ARCTIC, VOL. 6 SUBARCTIC, VOL. 8 CALIFORNIA, VOL. 7 NORTHWEST each 62.00 HANDBOOK OF THE INDIANS OF CALIFORNIA, Kroeber 20.95 KHLEBNIKOV ARCHIVE, Khlebnikov 17.50 (Journal entries by Russian-American Company official detail life at Ross 1820 - 1822.) NATURAL WORLD OF THE CALIFORNIA INDIANS, Elasser/Heizer 15.95 RUSSIAN AMERICA: A BIOGRAPHICAL DICTIONARY, Pierce 45.00 RUSSIAN AMERICAN COLONIES, Dmytryshyn/Vaughn 40.00 (Research with many details about the colonies, including Fort Ross.) RUSSIAN AMERICA, STATISTICAL AND ETHNOGRAPHIC INFORMATION, Wrangell 18.00 (Includes ethnographic accounts on the Fort Ross area written by a governor of Russian America.) ORDERING INFORMATION (707) 847-3437 Fax (707) 847-3601 E-Mail fria@mcn.org Hope H. Dunlap _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 14:00:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA29095 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:00:40 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA10445; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:23:25 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA07868 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:08:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA07857; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:08:20 -0700 (MST) From: Luiseach@aol.com Received: from Luiseach@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id VMCCa20554; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:06:12 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4af5cfd3.36a62924@aol.com> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:06:12 EST To: ariyana@cats.UCSC.EDU, owner-h-costume@indra.com, h-costume-digest@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #67 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 84 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Luiseach@aol.com In a message dated 01/20/99 09:50:49 AM, you wrote: << frienly>> oops -- I'd hoped that if I spelled pidgin right, someone else would pick up on it, the problem is that even if you ran a spell checker, they HAD spelled the bird correctly -- reminds me of an event announcement where the autocrat's spell checker had corrected "Gentles" to "Gentiles" and he didn't catch it before it went to our kingdom newsletter. Oh well. Happy Wednesday from not-so-sunny Riverside/Dreiburgen Lucinda/Luighseach btw, does UCSC.EDU stand for UC Santa Cruz? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 14:37:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA29304 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:37:11 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA16593; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 13:00:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA15546 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:45:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA15515 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:45:07 -0700 (MST) From: Gaelscot@aol.com Received: from Gaelscot@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id EBKGa03543 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:43:56 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <91b9d6be.36a631fc@aol.com> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:43:56 EST To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: H-COST: "unique" question Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.7 for Mac sub 3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com This is off-topic, but you guys are the only sewing folks I know. Or sort-of know. :-) Anyway, I got my Clothilde catalogue yesterday and saw an ad for something called "unique," which is called a club. You send in $50 and they send you a video on how to take 47 different measurements, which you then send back to the company. Four times a year, you get pattern catalogues. When you order a pattern, you get one sized exactly to you. The ad says they have more than 200 patterns. Has anyone heard of or used this? I am okay with making up my own historic patterns, but awful at altering modern ones. It sounds pretty neat, but there isn't a number to call or anything. Gail Finke _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 14:39:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA29322 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:39:16 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA16931; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 13:02:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA16169 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:46:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com (imo14.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA16123 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:46:45 -0700 (MST) From: Gaelscot@aol.com Received: from Gaelscot@aol.com by imo14.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 9JBUa05517 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:43:51 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <782e33f.36a631f7@aol.com> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:43:51 EST To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: H-COST: hawaiian shirts Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.7 for Mac sub 3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com On the topic of Hawaiian shirts -- why are they so expensive? My parents were recently in Hawaii, and found that even there the shirts cost about $70. Now, my husband and I have lots of short-sleeved cotton shirts, and none of them cost $70! Does it have something to do with the dyes? The quality of the cotton? Or is it just a status thing? Gail Finke _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 14:44:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA29362 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:44:26 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA17926; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 13:07:31 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA18091 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:52:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA17995 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:52:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.148] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 1033fd-0005s4-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 11:52:10 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990120112946.00911150@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 11:33:04 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: OT/Yiddish In-Reply-To: References: <36A53F8C.815C909@pacbell.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Yiddish is just this kind of hybrid. But it has more German in it than any other Eastern European language, at least as it is spoken in this country. My mother isn't Jewish but she minored in German in college, and had no trouble understanding Yiddish when she read "The Joys of Yiddish'. She kept commenting on the similarities between the two languages. >I was actually taught that Yiddish is a Pigeon (or a Creole, I don't >rememebr which...), a strange combination of Hebrew and whatever the local >language was. So you would get Russian-Yiddish, Polish-Yiddish, >German-Yiddish, and so forth. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 14:44:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA29364 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:44:30 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA17938; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 13:07:32 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA18093 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:52:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA18022 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:52:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.148] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 1033fh-0005s4-00; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 11:52:13 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990120114034.00c08100@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 11:47:50 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com, Kristi.Kelly@mci.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Regency gown pattern suggestions In-Reply-To: <199901201550.IAA27988@indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows The standard advice is to go to pictures made in that period and see what the people in them are wearing. The artists of any time period knew what other people of that period were wearing, and they left pictures you can copy. Recent movies - and there are several recent Jane Austin ones - should get you thru one event. They aren't always perfect, but they ought to be good enough for what you are doing. The people who do this period more often than one wedding usually study period sources of information. You can probably get away with just watching a movie or two and making something out of one of them. Rent the video so you can stop it and take a close look without the dress you are looking at moving. >Any material and trim pointers would be great! Also, any idea of what >to do with one's hair? Hats were in? or were they just naked curls? > >Also, does the movie Emma with Gwyenth Paltrow give a reasonable idea >of what the clothes looked like? Are there any other places that we >should look? Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 14:44:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA29368 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:44:33 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA17937; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 13:07:32 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA18090 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:52:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA18006 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:52:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.148] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 1033ff-0005s4-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 11:52:11 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990120113740.00c0cb10@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 11:39:43 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: H-COST: removing pencil from velveteen In-Reply-To: <199901201528.IAA24020@indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Why bother removing the pencil marks? Are you going to compete with this piece? Won't you lining cover the marks? >ObCostume: I've been embroidering fake (plastic and glass) pearls onto >cotton velveteen. I will eventually need to get the penciled-on guidelines >off. I don't want to put it in the laundry, as I have a vision of it >coming out all melted. The pencil lines are on the reverse (non-piled) >side, and the fabric is 100% cotton. What's the best way to do this? >Dabbing with a cloth? Shout stick? ;) Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 14:45:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA29385 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:45:27 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA18156; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 13:08:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA18304 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:53:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from mux.engin.umich.edu (root@mux.engin.umich.edu [141.213.42.44]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA18270 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:53:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (parsla@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mux.engin.umich.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA15082 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:53:04 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:53:03 -0500 (EST) From: Parsla Liepa To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Wet dress? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Parsla Liepa I know that this same question was answered last Halloween, but as is too often the case, I don't pay attention because I don't need the info right then. I've got a costume party coming up. The plan is to go as a Dead Ophelia. How do I get the wet look? Parsla _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 14:47:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA29396 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:47:24 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA18529; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 13:10:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA18946 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:55:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA18914 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:55:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.148] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 1