From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Nov 1 03:29:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA10265 for ; Mon, 1 Nov 1999 03:29:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA26749; Mon, 1 Nov 1999 02:47:05 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA27960 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Nov 1999 02:46:51 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [195.194.177.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA27950 for ; Mon, 1 Nov 1999 02:46:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from csv6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA08345.; Mon, 1 Nov 1999 09:52:26 GMT Received: from staff-Message_Server by csv6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 01 Nov 1999 09:45:24 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5.2 Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 09:46:32 +0000 From: "KATE M BUNTING" To: Subject: H-COST: Re: Hallowe'en costumes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id CAA27954 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "KATE M BUNTING" I'm curious about just what you Americans do in all these Hallowe'en costumes. Is wearing them to work as some people have mentioned a common practice? Hallowe'en is not a big deal here in Britain, perhaps because we have Guy Fawkes Day less than a week after. You can buy pumpkins nowadays (turnip lanterns are the traditional British version, but they are harder to carve as I remember from once having tried). I once dressed as a witch for a party (put a black paper cone over the crown of a black straw hat), but it wasn't a regular event. Some children have latched on to the "trick or treat" business in recent years, but I've never heard of there being any flurry of costume making - I think they just buy masks or use face paint. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 1 10:08:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA15076 for ; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 10:08:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA00362; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 09:19:34 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA26021 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 09:19:09 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bigred.unl.edu (00217146@bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA26011 for ; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 09:19:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (00217146@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA10929 for ; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 10:24:08 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 10:24:07 -0600 (CST) From: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Moth balls In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19991130203641.3afff822@mail2.quiknet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> > I also use the freeze-thaw-freeze-thaw method to kill off any little pests > without using chemicals. Those of you in the far north or at higher > altitudes have a larger area to use , I'm limited by the size of my > freezer but you can use a backyard clothes line or unheated storage shed. > For my wool blankets, I put them dry(!) in my clothes dryer on high heat for > 30 minutes or so. The dry heat doesn't hurt the blankets, but kills the > pests, and the tumbling beats out any dirt and fluffs up the blankets nicely. Be aware that while this may work on moths, it may not necessarily work on all the pests you want to get rid of. My grandfather was experimenting with methods of killing ticks (I know, a completely different arthropod) and put a bunch in the freezer. He forgot about them. *FOUR YEARS* later, he re-discovered them, thawed them out, and they walked away. Emma _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 1 11:04:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA15136 for ; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 11:04:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA09538; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 10:14:42 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA10875 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 10:14:26 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from chmls05.mediaone.net (ne.mediaone.net [24.128.1.70]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA10864 for ; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 10:14:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from mediaone.net (h00105af53be2.ne.mediaone.net [24.218.162.250]) by chmls05.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA14303 for ; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 12:14:21 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <38455780.E0835DD1@mediaone.net> Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 12:14:40 -0500 From: Janice Dallas X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en]C-MOENE (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: Mothballs References: <1F176F2C2977D311B3300090270E637837B379@scl-exch.phoenix.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Janice Dallas One thing I've found out. Never put mothballs in a cedar chest. It makes a foul odor and the balls combine with the cedar permanently. My husband had to sand the crystalizing off and shellac and I'm still not sure if the chest will be useable. I use the natural repellants and cedar bags now. It can be impossible to get the odor of mothballs out of some clothes. -- Janice Dallas Boston,MA area, USA JaniceDals@MediaOne.net "Just so, the girl has beauty, virtue, wit..." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 1 11:19:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA15169 for ; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 11:19:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA12413; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 10:28:46 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA14376 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 10:26:49 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.wa.home.com [24.0.2.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA14365 for ; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 10:26:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from [24.9.58.36] by mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991201172639.WKKV20526.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> for ; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 09:26:39 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.0c (197) Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 09:18:32 -0800 Subject: Re: H-COST: Plumes and Furs From: "R.L. Shep" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19991201172639.WKKV20526.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "R.L. Shep" YES... I just sent a message about them to the list yestreday but it seems to have been lost in the shuffle. I use cedar balls all the time now and am replacing the moth balls - which I used to use by leaving them in the bag them came in and punching holes in it with an ice pick... that way they did not come in comtact with the fabric. Cedar balls seem to work better, but here again I keep them on the sides so that do not have direct contact with abric. I am not sure that is necessary, just being careful. ~!~ R.L.Shep http://www.rlshep.com ---------- >From: Kat & Kent >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: Re: H-COST: Plumes and Furs >Date: Wed, Dec 1, 1999, 5:19 AM > > >-Poster: Kat & Kent > >Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that >cedar balls (or blocks or chips) that are sanded occasionally to >'freshen' them, work as moth repellents. > >Kat > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 1 11:34:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA15188 for ; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 11:34:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA00838; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 10:51:55 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA20549 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 10:49:36 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.cho.org (mail.cho.org [209.77.137.36]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA20536 for ; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 10:49:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from [172.19.1.106] ([172.19.1.106]) by mail.cho.org; Wed, 01 Dec 1999 09:49:19 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: ldownward@198.211.240.120 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19991201172639.WKKV20526.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 09:50:21 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lynn Downward Subject: Re: H-COST: Plumes and Furs Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lynn Downward >-Poster: "R.L. Shep" > >YES... I just sent a message about them to the list yestreday but it seems >to have been lost in the shuffle. >I use cedar balls all the time now and am replacing the moth balls - which I >used to use by leaving them in the bag them came in and punching holes in it >with an ice pick... that way they did not come in comtact with the fabric. >Cedar balls seem to work better, but here again I keep them on the sides so >that do not have direct contact with abric. I am not sure that is >necessary, just being careful. >~!~ R.L.Shep >http://www.rlshep.com > Good idea! I've seen damage done to clothing and quilts kept in cedar chests because of the oils in the wood. I use lavendar in fabric bags kept near, but not on, my feathers and fur. I also have a very fancy, expensive feather mask. When I bought it a couple of years ago, the artist told me to keep the mask in a plastic bag with a fabric bag of lavendar - but not touching the feathers. The lavendar will keep the feather mites away, but the oils in the lavendar could harm the feathers. Whether he meant the dyes n the feathers or the feathers themselves I don't know. Doesn't matter much. I wear it a couple times a year and check it every quarter - no damage at all. The plus with the lavendar is that the smell of the chemicals used on the feathers has diminished since I first wore it. It smelled so strongly at first I couldn't wear the mask for long but now it's fine. lynnD _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 1 11:48:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA15195 for ; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 11:48:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA03123; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 11:06:27 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA25021 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 11:06:06 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ntserver1.mainsaver.com ([206.17.202.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA25014 for ; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 11:06:05 -0700 (MST) Received: by HP-LH3 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 09:57:31 -0800 Message-ID: <5B38B8D7EED8D211997F00A0C9E57FB91DB643@HP-LH3> From: MAGGIE SECARA To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Moth balls Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 09:57:30 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MAGGIE SECARA I've had things turn up with "moth" (or something) holes more than once no matter how often they've been to the cleaners. Sounds like wishful thinking or marketting from the dry cleaning industry to me. MaggiRos > ---------- > From: Russell Hedges[SMTP:russellh@home.com] > Reply To: h-costume@indra.com > Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 1999 8:02 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: Moth balls > > > -Poster: Russell Hedges > > > > "Marsha J. Hamilton" wrote: > > > > -Poster: "Marsha J. Hamilton" > > > > >We put an open box of mothballs in the cupboard to > > >keep the beasties away..... > > ------------------------- > > > > > > > There may be a thread on this in the archives but do others > > know whether moth balls should be a no-no? Especially for > > delicate historical pieces? Thanks. > > > > I was told that moths go for clothing that has not been cleaned. A dry > cleaning before storage would therefore be sufficient to protect > clothing from the ravages of moths. > > I cannot tell you where I heard that. Does anyone know if it's true? I > have been relying on it for a while now. I hope it's right. > > Russell Hedges > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 1 12:43:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA15252 for ; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 12:43:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA12489; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 12:00:32 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA09285 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 11:59:40 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from scl-ims.phoenix.com (scl-ims.phoenix.com [134.122.1.73]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09236 for ; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 11:59:29 -0700 (MST) Received: by scl-ims.phoenix.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 10:59:12 -0800 Message-ID: <1F176F2C2977D311B3300090270E637841A69D@scl-exch.phoenix.com> From: Cynthia Barnes To: "H-Costume (E-mail)" Subject: H-COST: RE: frog closures Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 10:59:11 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cynthia Barnes >My daughter asked today why they are called frog closures and I realized that I don't really know. Does anyone know? Frog princes found them fashionable. --cin Cynthia Barnes 408.570.1023 Cynthia_Barnes@phoenix.com Phoenix Technologies 411 E. Plumeria Dr. San Jose CA 95134 "I think animal testing is a terrible idea; they get all nervous and give the wrong answers." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 1 13:22:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA15385 for ; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 13:22:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA18321; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 12:39:28 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA19645 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 12:39:04 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com (imo-d06.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA19605 for ; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 12:38:56 -0700 (MST) From: Gaelscot@aol.com Received: from Gaelscot@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.4.) id 5.0.3d287f3f (3856); Wed, 1 Dec 1999 14:36:15 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.3d287f3f.2576d2ae@aol.com> Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 14:36:14 EST Subject: H-COST: Re: Jeanne d'Arc/Chas de Blois pourpoint To: Marfice_Joseph_P@cat.com, Gaelscot@aol.com, h-costume-digest@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com Broom: Yes, he did reproduce this garment, using the Charles le Blois pattern as a general idea (as someone on the list suggested). It's great. The standing collar is short, though, and we don't have the cool back to it -- just a mandarin type collar. Anyway, you missed it but we discussed this on the list a few weeks ago. Those sleeves are FANTASTIC, they give you great mobility. Plus, of course, they look great. Try it! Gail _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 1 13:47:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA15423 for ; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 13:47:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA21703; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 13:04:32 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA26746 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 13:04:09 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.mailstart.com (mail.mailstart.com [207.231.76.67]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA26733 for ; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 13:04:07 -0700 (MST) From: joanj@quiknet.com Received: from maroon [207.231.76.76] by mail.mailstart.com (SMTPD32-5.05) id AF36207F007E; Wed, 01 Dec 1999 12:04:06 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com CC: Subject: RE: Re: H-COST: Plumes and Furs Message-Id: <011299335.43446@206.170.163.10> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 12:04:08 -0800 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: joanj@quiknet.com In order to keep the camphor or moth balls or whatever away from direct contact with the clean fabric (wool *and* silk), feathers, or leather (*another* animal product I use a lot of) items being protected, I put the moth-killer in a small glass (not plastic!) jar with the metal (not plastic!) lid slightly loosened. That way the vapors can escape, but the solid chemical or oils are kept away from the protected items. You can tuck the little bottle in amongst the items for the best protection. and if necessary, you can use more than one bottle for a very large storage container. Joan Jurancich Sacramento, CA, aka moth and beetle breeding grounds --- Original Message --- "R.L. Shep" Wrote on Wed, 01 Dec 1999 09:18:32 -0800 ------------------ YES... I just sent a message about them to the list yestreday but it seems to have been lost in the shuffle. I use cedar balls all the time now and am replacing the moth balls - which I used to use by leaving them in the bag them came in and punching holes in it with an ice pick... that way they did not come in comtact with the fabric. Cedar balls seem to work better, but here again I keep them on the sides so that do not have direct contact with abric. I am not sure that is necessary, just being careful. ~!~ R.L.Shep http://www.rlshep.com ---------- >From: Kat & Kent >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: Re: H-COST: Plumes and Furs >Date: Wed, Dec 1, 1999, 5:19 AM > > >-Poster: Kat & Kent > >Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that >cedar balls (or blocks or chips) that are sanded occasionally to >'freshen' them, work as moth repellents. > >Kat > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME ----- Sent using MailStart.com ( http://MailStart.Com/welcome.html ) The FREE way to access your mailbox via any web browser, anywhere! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 1 17:00:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA15788 for ; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 17:00:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA24589; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 16:18:31 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA10451 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 16:17:15 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA10434 for ; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 16:17:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA06477; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 15:17:33 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3845ACBE.9557DA1F@serv.net> Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 15:18:22 -0800 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SCA Garb , Historical Costume Subject: H-COST: my new belt Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris If you go to this website http://sites.netscape.net/ksca/beltsets and scroll to the last belt on the page you will see the belt I commissioned and received in the mail yesterday. I wore it all night over my sweats. *GGGGGGGG* It is lovely (I think) and is a replica of a 14th century belt down to the color of the leather. It has sterling silver sexfoils around the waist and a lovely brass pouch hanger that you can see at http://www.medievalwares.com/medieval_belt_mounts.htm if you scroll down to pouch hangers. The gentleman who made this is quite talented, quite reasonable, and *nice* to boot. The same can be said the gentleman who made the pouch hanger. Both do period work based on artifacts and scholarly research. And I highly recommend them. No benefits for me, just a highly satisfied customer, Merouda -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of AnTir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 1 17:25:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA15831 for ; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 17:25:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA27893; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 16:40:49 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA16695 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 16:40:29 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from squealer.excite.com ([199.172.153.143]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA16685 for ; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 16:40:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from bernie.excite.com ([199.172.148.157]) by gigi.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP id <19991201233712.CDUX6196.gigi.excite.com@bernie.excite.com> for ; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 15:37:12 -0800 Message-ID: <7533992.944091432881.JavaMail.imail@bernie.excite.com> Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 15:37:12 -0800 (PST) From: StitchWitch To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: my new belt Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 144.163.130.106 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: StitchWitch > If you go to this website http://sites.netscape.net/ksca/beltsets > and scroll to the last belt on the page you will see the belt I > commissioned and received in the mail yesterday. I wore it all night > over my sweats. *GGGGGGGG* My, that is a fine one! And your metalsmith invited one and all to the An Tir 12th Night to see it. Wasn't that nice! So, when should we show up, and is it pot-luck? ;) Kate ---- StitchWitch In our play we reveal what kind of people we are. - Ovid, c.e. 8 _______________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 1 17:43:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA15884 for ; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 17:43:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA01182; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 17:01:19 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA21837 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 17:01:02 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.airmail.net (mail.airmail.net [206.66.12.40]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA21832 for ; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 17:01:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mamabear from [207.13.31.71] by mail.airmail.net (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.16 #30.421) with smtp for sender: id ; Wed, 1 Dec 99 18:01:00 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <00bb01bf3c57$a16782c0$0200a8c0@mamabear.stormypetrel.com> From: "Genevieve de Courtanvaux" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: my new belt Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 17:56:05 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Genevieve de Courtanvaux" Wow!! I am impressed with these and now can't wait to order one myself. Thanks for the url. Carol Ross > >> If you go to this website http://sites.netscape.net/ksca/beltsets >> and scroll to the last belt on the page you will see the belt I >> commissioned and received in the mail yesterday. I wore it all night >> over my sweats. *GGGGGGGG* > > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 1 18:27:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA15930 for ; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 18:27:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA09100; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 17:43:17 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA05435 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 17:43:01 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA05427 for ; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 17:42:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA09979 for ; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 16:43:24 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3845C0DD.2914D679@serv.net> Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 16:44:13 -0800 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: my new belt References: <7533992.944091432881.JavaMail.imail@bernie.excite.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > My, that is a fine one! And your metalsmith invited one and all to the An > Tir 12th Night to see it. Wasn't that nice! > So, when should we show up, and is it pot-luck? ;) Heh heh. Originally that was the project deadline, Jan. 6th. But alas, I can no longer attend 12th Night. Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of AnTir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 1 21:20:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA16176 for ; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 21:20:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA01282; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 20:39:02 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA07965 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 20:37:15 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mtiwmhc10.worldnet.att.net (mtiwgwc02.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.17]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA07960 for ; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 20:37:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([63.28.163.217]) by mtiwmhc10.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19991202033642.ZYUA27447@worldnet.att.net> for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 03:36:42 +0000 Message-ID: <3845E999.846D5CFC@worldnet.att.net> Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 19:38:01 -0800 From: don and carolyn richardson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-WNS5.0 (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Plumes and Furs References: <199912010500.GAA03072@raq.dnsworld.de> <38452072.80DAFFFB@home.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: don and carolyn richardson Kat & Kent wrote: > > -Poster: Kat & Kent > > Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that > cedar balls (or blocks or chips) that are sanded occasionally to > 'freshen' them, work as moth repellents. I've always heard that as well, Kat. In fact, when I refinished the cedar chest my mother sent me the last thing I did was take a fine grit sand paper to the interior. I store my vintage stuff in it now (all wrapped in acid free tissue or cotton sheets). Carolyn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 1 21:22:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA16186 for ; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 21:22:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA01740; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 20:41:28 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA08389 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 20:39:44 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mtiwmhc10.worldnet.att.net (mtiwgwc02.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.17]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA08382 for ; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 20:39:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([63.28.163.217]) by mtiwmhc10.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19991202033911.ZZYQ27447@worldnet.att.net> for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 03:39:11 +0000 Message-ID: <3845EA2E.321B8AC6@worldnet.att.net> Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 19:40:30 -0800 From: don and carolyn richardson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-WNS5.0 (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Plumes and Furs References: <011299335.43446@206.170.163.10> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: don and carolyn richardson I store some of my less-used costumes in a shed in the back of the garage - lots of spiders but I'm not sure about moths. But they're in garment bags inside one of those covered portable closets, and I have an old sock full of moth balls hanging from the rod. It needs refilling periodically but seems to work fine. I wish I'd known about the lavendar - I just trimmed my lavendar bushes this last weekend. Carolyn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 1 21:40:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA16216 for ; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 21:40:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA03436; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 20:59:23 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA11282 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 20:57:39 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA11253 for ; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 20:57:32 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 20:57:32 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 1349 invoked from network); 2 Dec 1999 03:57:28 -0000 Received: from 240.64.3-9.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (HELO JOANJURA) (207.231.64.240) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 2 Dec 1999 03:57:28 -0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19991201195827.3adfc3a8@mail2.quiknet.com> X-Sender: joanj@mail2.quiknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: Re: H-COST: Moth balls Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Joan M Jurancich At 10:24 AM 12/1/99 -0600, Emma Elizabeth Lehman wrote: > >-Poster: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> > > >> I also use the freeze-thaw-freeze-thaw method to kill off any little pests >> without using chemicals. Those of you in the far north or at higher >> altitudes have a larger area to use , I'm limited by the size of my >> freezer but you can use a backyard clothes line or unheated storage shed. >> For my wool blankets, I put them dry(!) in my clothes dryer on high heat for >> 30 minutes or so. The dry heat doesn't hurt the blankets, but kills the >> pests, and the tumbling beats out any dirt and fluffs up the blankets nicely. > >Be aware that while this may work on moths, it may not necessarily work on >all the pests you want to get rid of. My grandfather was experimenting >with methods of killing ticks (I know, a completely different arthropod) >and put a bunch in the freezer. He forgot about them. *FOUR YEARS* >later, he re-discovered them, thawed them out, and they walked away. > >Emma But *ticks* don't eat dead animal protein! All I am trying to do is protect my fabric, feathers, and leather stuff . You usually find ticks attached to you or a companion animal...not your clothes. (And yes, we have lots of ticks in California, though I have not personally had to deal with them, thank heaven!) Hoping you all are able to keep the pests, of whatever kind, under control, Joan Jurancich Sacramento, CA joanj@quiknet.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 1 22:48:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA16297 for ; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 22:48:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA11093; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 22:06:56 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA22892 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 22:05:11 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.airmail.net (mail.airmail.net [206.66.12.40]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA22885 for ; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 22:05:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from mamabear from [207.13.31.71] by mail.airmail.net (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.16 #30.421) with smtp for sender: id ; Wed, 1 Dec 99 23:05:09 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <002501bf3c82$0ec575a0$0200a8c0@mamabear.stormypetrel.com> From: "Genevieve de Courtanvaux" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Plumes and Furs Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 22:59:47 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Genevieve de Courtanvaux" Ok, this is going to sound weird but is the moth problem a regional problem because here in Texas I haven't had any problems with it at all. Carol Ross _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 2 00:15:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA16545 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 00:15:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA18276; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 23:34:17 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA05154 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 23:32:27 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ivic.ivic.net (ivic.ivic.net [207.51.248.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA05147 for ; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 23:32:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from default (ivic-dyn106.ivic.net [207.51.248.106]) by ivic.ivic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA10324 for ; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 22:03:50 -0800 Message-Id: <199912020603.WAA10324@ivic.ivic.net> From: "Lorene Dinsmore" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: was (no subject) now American Girl dolls Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 22:32:10 -0800 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Lorene Dinsmore" Re: American Girl dolls A few days ago, Heidi Fox wrote: > Thanks for that correction Sally! I thought the whole series of books was great, and am glad to hear someone else's opinion. I have yet to see the dolls. The dolls are lovely, a bit on the pricey side if you are looking for inexpensive dolls, but on the lower end of the really nice dolls. One particular thing about the A.M. dolls, you can order one with the same color skin, eyes, and hair as the young lady it is intended for. The various ethnic combinations are fairly true to nature -- there are a variety of colors of skin, almond shaped eyes, straight, curly and very curly hair. The dolls are sturdy enough to be played with, and now several pattern companies have patterns for this size doll. This all after my daughter has set her dolls carefully on a shelf. Islyle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 2 05:37:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA22203 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 05:37:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA06200; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 04:55:41 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA04062 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 04:55:18 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA04056 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 04:55:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) id <01JJ0X47W8O0002PKY@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 11:55:06 GMT Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.56.3]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) with ESMTP id <01JJ0X46WVBC002A7R@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Thu, 02 Dec 1999 11:55:01 +0000 (GMT) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); 2 Dec 99 11:52:35 GMT0BST Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44) ; 2 Dec 99 11:52:10 GMT0BST Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.126) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; 2 Dec 99 11:52:02 GMT0BST Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 11:52:02 +0000 (GMT) From: Teddy Subject: Re: H-COST: V-back collars/pourpoints In-reply-to: <199912010459.VAA03524@net.indra.com> To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Teddy Hi Cynthia > I'm not clear on what you're describing. Do you have a shallow V > collar only? Is there a big-V inset & little V collar? Do you use a > single piece for the garment back or is there a CB seam up to the V? > The V-collar+inset that I copied from Harmand is about 5-6" from top > of collar to the point of the V seamline. How deep is the V you're > describing? Sorry, I probably wasn't very clear. I'm describing a stand collar that is set into a nexk-hole that is round (follows the base of the neck) at the front of the garment and and a V at the back. I fhtere is a standard size of that V, I don't know what it is. It appears to differ a bit from person-to-person/garment-to-garment, judging by the pictures I've seen it appear in. The ones I've done (so far) ave all been between 5 and 7 inches from top of collar to pint of V (the height of the collar itself being the varying factor here as I've used the same V on all of them so far - it works and I'm not going to alter that bit unless I *have* to...) Made them both with one piece collars (no seam at centre back) and 2 piece (seam at centre back) as well as a 4 piece (seams at side of neck as well as centre back - it was a parti-coloured garent), it doesn't make any difference to the method of doing it as I made up the collar into one piece and lined/interlined it *before* fitting it tinot the neckline. All of the garments I've used these collars on have a centre back seam, as do *most* of the paintings/pictures I've seen that show it. But I have seen some that don't show a centre back seam on the garment (from memory, I think I've seen one that shows a centre back seam on the collar but not on the garment - but that's a vague memory from somewhere and I could be wrong)! The low necked (collarless) garments I mentioned are over garments usually worn over other garments with stand-collars. They are just v-back shaped neckholes, sometimes edged in fur (or with fur lining showing around them) Hope this helps Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of air and darkness, apparently!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 2 06:04:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA22331 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 06:04:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA07394; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 05:22:12 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA06572 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 05:21:58 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d09.mx.aol.com (imo-d09.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.41]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA06565 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 05:21:56 -0700 (MST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.4.) id 6.0.cc56cd34 (4369) for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 07:21:21 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.cc56cd34.2577be40@aol.com> Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 07:21:20 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: was (no subject) now American Girl dolls To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 45 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AnnBWass@aol.com My big reservation with the dolls, even though they are beautiful and very well-made, is the price. I know that, as a girl, I would have wanted one desperately, but there is no way my family could have afforded one. When I expressed this reservation to one of the Pleasant Company people (three years ago), she made some comment about there being grandmothers. Well, I only had one living grandmother, and she was on a fixed income, so she couldn't have bought me one either. I have bought two, much less expensive, 18" dolls and am making clothes for them clothes. I will be giving them to Toys for Tots. I will say that clothes for 18" dolls are much easier to make than Barbie-doll size. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 2 06:06:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA22355 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 06:06:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA07581; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 05:24:31 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA06828 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 05:24:29 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from cmailg1.svr.pol.co.uk (cmailg1.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.195.171]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA06823 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 05:24:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from modem6.fred.pol.co.uk ([195.92.7.134] helo=herimats) by cmailg1.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.11 #0) id 11tVHd-0004gS-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 02 Dec 1999 12:24:26 +0000 Message-ID: <007d01bf3cc0$42aa07d0$86075cc3@herimats> From: "LDMundy" To: References: <002501bf3c82$0ec575a0$0200a8c0@mamabear.stormypetrel.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: Plumes and Furs Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 12:18:28 -0000 Organization: Heritage Matters at Wysewords MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "LDMundy" ----- From: Genevieve de Courtanvaux > > -Poster: "Genevieve de Courtanvaux" > > Ok, this is going to sound weird but is the moth problem a regional problem > because here in Texas I haven't had any problems with it at all. > Carol Ross I think that the US might just have pockets ( no pun ) where the problem exists/ According to my enty-?ist friend the major culprit, the clothes moth has long since died out in the UK( and poss Europe), although there are smaller moths ( and one beatle, that evidently likes nylon) ) that may take ocassional advantage of clothes, they can do nothing like the tremendous damage that the original pest could; This had to be seen to be believed- clothes would be practically shredded and unrecognisasable after a month or so ( showing my age). Our moth balls have also died out; they were made of napthalene, which was a terrible white stuff that leaked from pipes during the processing of Town gas- now we use North Sea Gas which doesnt produce it. It is most probably illegal as well. Something ironic about the fact that both beast and cure are no more; but I cant quite put my finger on it ; too early to be metaphysical. I hope that nobody goes to the trouble of genetically engineering something that eats Lycra- boy would some of us be in trouble; Dave _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 2 08:14:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA22544 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 08:14:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA15689; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 07:32:30 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA22279 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 07:32:00 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.bellatlantic.net (mail1.bellatlantic.net [199.45.32.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA22272 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 07:31:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from thibault.org (client-151-197-111-154.bellatlantic.net [151.197.111.154]) by mail1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA18602 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 09:35:27 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <38467FF7.231CB57D@thibault.org> Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 09:22:19 -0500 From: Cynthia Virtue Organization: Virtue Ventures http://www.virtue.to X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Moth balls References: <2.2.16.19991201195827.3adfc3a8@mail2.quiknet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cynthia Virtue I'm really cheap, um, thrifty. Instead of buying closet cedar hanger thingies at $3 for a 3x5" piece of wood, I buy a big bag of cedar hampster bedding, and make sachets out of muslin. Total cost: $4 or so; and you can get about 50 hand-sized sachets to scatter everywhere. cv --- "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet LXXXI "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia V. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 2 08:39:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA22594 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 08:39:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA17884; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 07:57:03 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA26849 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 07:56:54 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail2.uts.ohio-state.edu (mail2.uts.ohio-state.edu [128.146.214.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA26839 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 07:56:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from mai040RS1.lib.ohio-state.edu (mai040rs1.lib.ohio-state.edu [128.146.115.31]) by mail2.uts.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA29770 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 09:56:51 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19991202100132.006a41ac@pop.service.ohio-state.edu> X-Sender: mhamilto@pop.service.ohio-state.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 10:01:32 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Marsha J. Hamilton" Subject: Re: H-COST: Clothes beasties OT In-Reply-To: <007d01bf3cc0$42aa07d0$86075cc3@herimats> References: <002501bf3c82$0ec575a0$0200a8c0@mamabear.stormypetrel.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Marsha J. Hamilton" >the clothes moth has long since died out in the UK (and poss Europe)... -------------------- Question from the U.S. to the U.K.... Correct me if I'm wrong--the clothes moth has died out, no rabies, you don't have killer tornados every spring and fall, the mosquitos aren't the size of humming birds, hurricanes don't wipe out your coastal cities, your temperatures don't vary from -20 to 100 degrees F with 99% humidity, you don't have major droughts that turn everything into a dust bowl, no massive fields of ragweed and other allergens everywhere.... I can't decide if it's idyllic or downright unchallenging! But I do wonder how UK folks keep natural fibers from deteriorating in all the damp. Or is it only damp in Scotland (where the towels never seemed to dry out while I was on vacation there?). _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 2 08:45:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA22601 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 08:45:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA18964; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 08:03:02 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA28026 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 08:02:16 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA28015 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 08:02:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from mommy ([63.15.63.126]) by mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with SMTP id <19991202150143.XPEH11314@mommy> for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 15:01:43 +0000 Message-ID: <002b01bf3cd5$5fba2ac0$50cd4389@mommy> From: "Patricia Szekely" To: Subject: H-COST: Scotish resources Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 09:56:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Patricia Szekely" Just wondering if anyone can direct me to resources for Scotland. In particular Scottish ladies in the late 16th century. Can be highland or lowland or whatever. I am just starting, and need all of the references I can get. Thanks in advance : ) Tricia _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 2 09:24:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA22684 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 09:24:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA23430; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 08:41:44 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA06838 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 08:41:30 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA06646 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 08:40:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) id <01JJ14T6VN7K002UZP@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 15:40:38 GMT Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.56.3]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) with ESMTP id <01JJ14SCWMD8002ZSC@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Thu, 02 Dec 1999 15:34:33 +0000 (GMT) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); 2 Dec 99 15:32:06 GMT0BST Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44) ; 2 Dec 99 15:31:48 GMT0BST Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.126) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; 2 Dec 99 15:31:40 GMT0BST Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 15:31:40 +0000 (GMT) From: Teddy Subject: Re: H-COST: Moths in UK In-reply-to: <199912021502.IAA28065@net.indra.com> To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Teddy > - -Poster: "LDMundy" ----- From: Genevieve de Courtanvaux > I think that the US might just have pockets ( no pun ) where the > problem exists/ According to my enty-?ist friend the major > culprit, the clothes moth has long since died out in the UK( and > poss Europe), Really? Are you *sure,* Dave? In which case, what was it that infested my place (along with carpet-beetle) a couple of years ago?? My entamologist/animal-biologist flatmate identified both the moth and the carpet beetle for me and I had a major panic about my poor fabrics and costumes... All sorted now thanks to some nasty stuff from the local vet, but worrying for a while. > - -Poster: "Marsha J. Hamilton" > > Question from the U.S. to the U.K.... > Correct me if I'm wrong--the clothes moth has died out, no rabies, you > don't have killer tornados every spring and fall, the mosquitos aren't > the size of humming birds, hurricanes don't wipe out your coastal > cities, your temperatures don't vary from -20 to 100 degrees F with > 99% humidity, you don't have major droughts that turn everything into > a dust bowl, no massive fields of ragweed and other allergens > everywhere.... > > I can't decide if it's idyllic or downright unchallenging! Ahh, but we have other challenges, like American actors who *think* they can do English accents (anyone watch "Buffy"?) and MacDonalds. > But I do wonder how UK folks keep natural fibers from > deteriorating in all the damp. Or is it only damp in Scotland > (where the towels never seemed to dry out while I was on vacation > there?). Perhaps you just came at a bad time or were in a particularly damp region - I've never had any problems with my cotton, linen or silk, even when visiting Scotland. Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of air and darkness, apparently!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 2 09:52:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA22728 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 09:52:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27470; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 09:09:16 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA13917 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 09:09:06 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from chupacabras.flash.net (chupacabras.flash.net [209.30.2.16]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA13907 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 09:09:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from flash.net (p35.amax36.dialup.hou1.flash.net [209.30.72.35]) by chupacabras.flash.net (8.9.3/Pro-8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA00262 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 10:09:03 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <38469973.F3AB3E76@flash.net> Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 10:08:19 -0600 From: "V. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9e?= Bedford" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Plumes and Furs / Moth balls References: <199912012317.QAA10593@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "V. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9e?= Bedford" I was *so* hoping someone else would ask this! Along the U.S. Gulf Coast and thereabouts, we have awful problems with an as-yet unmentioned (unless I missed it) beastie...roaches. Ugh! I'm told these nasty critters are frequently responsible for holes in garments...especially garments stored without prior cleaning. (A little hole in a acetate velvet dress was blamed on a roach munching away a spot of spilled food. Shudder...visions of insect parties in my closet at night!) Any possible truth to this? And do moth balls / cedar / lavendar repel roaches? Thanks, Renee (in humid Houston, Texas) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 2 10:10:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA22765 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 10:10:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA00154; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 09:21:13 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA17431 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 09:20:58 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA17424 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 09:20:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r9p25.directcon.net [206.170.184.124]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA13793 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 08:18:52 -0800 Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 08:18:52 -0800 Message-Id: <199912021618.IAA13793@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: was (no subject) now American Girl dolls Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson >I have bought two, much less expensive, 18" dolls and am making clothes for >them clothes. Some of the big pattern companies also have patterns for cloth dolls that wear the same size as American Girl. I made a "Betsy McCall" (remember her?) doll to use as a mannequin when I made the Elizabethan gown for my cousin's doll. This would also be a good period-ish compromise for reenacting situations where yuou don't want to have girls carrying their vinyl dolls around. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 2 11:22:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA22896 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 11:22:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA12012; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 10:32:29 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA07476 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 10:31:40 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from wodc7mr3.ffx.ops.us.uu.net (wodc7mr3.ffx.ops.us.uu.net [192.48.96.19]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA07460 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 10:31:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from sews080 by wodc7mr3.ffx.ops.us.uu.net with SMTP (peer crosschecked as: og3pool109-80.corp.us.uu.net [153.39.109.80]) id QQhrwn13581 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 17:28:57 GMT Message-Id: From: "Jessica Wilbur" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 12:30:03 -0500 Subject: Re: H-COST: Moths in UK Priority: normal References: <199912021502.IAA28065@net.indra.com> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.00 beta 6) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Jessica Wilbur" > > Ahh, but we have other challenges, like American actors who > *think* they can do English accents (anyone watch "Buffy"?) and > MacDonalds. Yes, but we have those challenges in the US, too! =) --Jessica _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 2 11:26:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA22900 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 11:26:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA12864; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 10:36:31 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA09201 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 10:36:28 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA09191 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 10:36:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA10578 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 09:36:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-131.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.131]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA02655 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 09:36:22 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <00c101bf3cee$13015280$f416fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: References: <2.2.16.19991201195827.3adfc3a8@mail2.quiknet.com> <38467FF7.231CB57D@thibault.org> Subject: Re: H-COST: Moth balls Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 09:52:58 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" > -Poster: Cynthia Virtue > > I'm really cheap, um, thrifty. Instead of buying closet cedar hanger > thingies at $3 for a 3x5" piece of wood, I buy a big bag of cedar > hampster bedding, and make sachets out of muslin. Total cost: $4 or so; > and you can get about 50 hand-sized sachets to scatter everywhere. > > cv I did this a while back with swatches. I was given a stack of brocade upholstery swatches, some pieces were up to 8" by 12", which had little to no use from a costuming perspective. So, I made beanbag size cedar sachets to throw in the dresser drawers and my garb boxes. Michelle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 2 11:56:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA22970 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 11:56:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA19390; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 11:12:12 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA19023 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 11:11:45 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from scl-ims.phoenix.com (scl-ims.phoenix.com [134.122.1.73]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA19010 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 11:11:43 -0700 (MST) Received: by scl-ims.phoenix.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 10:11:19 -0800 Message-ID: <1F176F2C2977D311B3300090270E637841A878@scl-exch.phoenix.com> From: Cynthia Barnes To: "H-Costume (E-mail)" Subject: H-COST: Re: V-back collars/pourpoints Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 10:11:24 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cynthia Barnes Teddy said> I'm describing a stand collar that is set into a nexk-hole that is round (follows the base of the neck) at the front of the garment and and a V at the back. OK, that's pretty much what I was working on, too. If you dont do a CB seam in the V-inset, how do you get it to "stand" at the back? Teddy said> It appears to differ a bit from person-to-person/garment-to-garment, judging by the pictures I've seen it appear in. The ones I've done (so far) ave all been between 5 and 7 inches from top of collar to pint of V (the height of the collar itself being the varying factor here as I've used the same V on all of them so far - it works and I'm not going to alter that bit unless I *have* to...) Yes, I agree. More so in implementation. This is quite clear, from my previous (modern) tailoring experiences. Collars can be so fiddley with the amount of lordosis vs vertical posture, forward/bkwd thrust shoulders, neck length, etc. I like the CB seam in the collar if only because that makes the entire CB a fitting seam. Might be reasonable to use the CB collar seam in muslins, but not in the finished product if the resulting patterm permitted. Thanks for the ideas, Teddy. --cin Cynthia Barnes 408.570.1023 Cynthia_Barnes@phoenix.com Phoenix Technologies 411 E. Plumeria Dr. San Jose CA 95134 "I think animal testing is a terrible idea; they get all nervous and give the wrong answers." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 2 12:32:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23019 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 12:32:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24326; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 11:42:45 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA27757 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 11:42:04 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ntserver1.mainsaver.com ([206.17.202.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA27747 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 11:42:02 -0700 (MST) Received: by HP-LH3 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 10:33:27 -0800 Message-ID: <5B38B8D7EED8D211997F00A0C9E57FB91DB656@HP-LH3> From: MAGGIE SECARA To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Scotish resources Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 10:33:26 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MAGGIE SECARA I have a reasonable but probably a bit out of date (we can hope) bibliography, but of course it's at home. If you'll email me there and remind me, I'll try to dig it out for you. There are also some links from the Compendium web site Links page (ren.dm.net/links) that should go where you want to go. MaggiRos NOVLThorn@aol.com > ---------- > From: Patricia Szekely[SMTP:a.szekely@worldnet.att.net] > Reply To: h-costume@indra.com > Sent: Thursday, December 02, 1999 6:56 AM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: H-COST: Scotish resources > > > -Poster: "Patricia Szekely" > > Just wondering if anyone can direct me to resources for Scotland. In > particular Scottish ladies in the late 16th century. Can be highland or > lowland or whatever. I am just starting, and need all of the references I > can get. > > Thanks in advance : ) > > Tricia > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 2 12:54:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23033 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 12:54:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA29157; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 12:13:14 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA05643 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 12:10:57 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.wa.home.com [24.0.2.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05631 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 12:10:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from [24.9.58.36] by mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991202191050.MPXL20526.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 11:10:50 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.0c (197) Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 11:15:55 -0800 Subject: H-COST: WTO - very OT From: "R.L. Shep" To: "h-costume" Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="MS_Mac_OE_3026978155_188157_MIME_Part" Message-Id: <19991202191050.MPXL20526.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "R.L. Shep" > THIS MESSAGE IS IN MIME FORMAT. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_3026978155_188157_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit If you are not interested - delete this - but I think it is important for everyone to know what is happening in Seattle. I have *forced myself* to stay away from any area that could be a trouble spot. But I cannot get anything done. I just stay glued to the TV. There are pro-police TV stations and pro-people stations. I watch all of it. The police are PIGS. It is bad enough that they will not allow people to protest... but they make rules and then break their own rules. They set up a *no protest* area and then hassle, beat, gas and arrest people OUTSIDE of that area. I know any numbr of people who were gassed trying to get home from work. AND the things that they have been doing on Capital Hill at night are beyond belief. I really would like to know why they make it a point of beating women and obviously gay men on Capital Hill. People who are doing nothing but walking from one place to another. This is not a *no protest zone* this is basically a residential - known gay - area. I am FURIOUS. It is best that I stay far away from it all. The ACLU is filing a suit against the city - GOOD. I will be glad when this is all over. But it won't really be over because the mayor and the police have a lot to answer for and I am sure that people here will not let them forget it. ~!~ R.L.Shep http://www.rlshep.com --MS_Mac_OE_3026978155_188157_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable WTO - very OT If you are not interested - delete this - but I think it= is important for everyone to know what is happening in Seattle.

I have *forced myself* to stay away from any area that could be a tr= ouble
spot.
But I cannot get anything done. I just stay glued to the TV. There are
pro-police TV stations and pro-people stations. I watch all of it.
The police are PIGS. It is bad enough that they will not allow people to protest... but they make rules and then break their own rules. They set up=
a *no protest* area and then hassle, beat, gas and arrest people OUTSIDE of=
that area. I know any numbr of people who were gassed trying to get home fr= om work.
AND the things that they have been doing on Capital Hill at night are beyon= d
belief.
I really would like to know why they make it a point of beating women and obviously gay men on Capital Hill. People who are doing nothing but walkin= g
from one place to another. This is not a *no protest zone* this is
basically a residential - known gay - area.
I am FURIOUS. It is best that I stay far away from it all.
The ACLU is filing a suit against the city - GOOD.
I will be glad when this is all over. But it won't really be over because<= BR> the mayor and the police have a lot to answer for and I am sure that people=
here will not let them forget it.

~!~ R.L.Shep
http://www.rlshep.com

 --MS_Mac_OE_3026978155_188157_MIME_Part-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 2 13:25:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA23091 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 13:25:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA03223; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 12:43:36 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA13745 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 12:43:05 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from na-ims.alcoa.com ([147.154.3.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA13735 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 12:43:03 -0700 (MST) Received: by NA-IMS with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 14:42:29 -0500 Message-ID: <0B3E3AA67456D311A9FC0000E889ED9847C030@na-dpw1.dpw.alcoa.com> From: "Fairchild, Connie E." To: "'h-costume-digest@indra.com'" Subject: H-COST: To mothball or not to mothball? Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 14:32:26 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Fairchild, Connie E." Coming out of lurking to add to the mothball discussion. I have an interest in the work of museum conservators, and although I am not one; I have been a member of their newsgroup for several years. I checked the archives for pertinent info on mothballs. > Mothballs are of two types, those made of PDB (paradichlorbenzene) and > those of naphthalene. A conservator at the Smithsonian wrote that > Naphthalene only covers the smell of material that insects are looking for > and therefore it is "hidden" from them. Napthalene does not kill insects. > I would guess that cedar and lavender probably also hides the odor of > delicious animal materials (wool, feathers, leather, taxidermy specimens > and furs, etc) from hungry insects. > PDB will kill them if in the right concentration and conditions (Your items and the PDB must be in an airtight container -- cedar chests rarely are). PDB has been suspect for causing health problems (if it kills bugs -- what else will be effected?). For very thorough information on moths and their control you may want to check this website: > http://www.uky.edu/Agriculture/Entomology/entfacts/struct/ef609.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 2 13:53:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA23131 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 13:53:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06958; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 13:11:19 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA21102 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 13:11:06 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f174.law4.hotmail.com [216.33.149.174]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA21091 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 13:11:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 12080 invoked by uid 0); 2 Dec 1999 20:10:31 -0000 Message-ID: <19991202201031.12079.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 209.20.212.4 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 02 Dec 1999 12:10:31 PST X-Originating-IP: [209.20.212.4] From: "Tammie L. Dupuis" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: WTO - very OT Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 12:10:31 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Tammie L. Dupuis" Greetings, I work in an office in downtown Seattle, about 100 yards from where everything has been going on. It is very freaky to have police in riot gear and national guard camped out on my street, asking me where I am going every time I leave the building. My boss got teargassed on his way home last night. About 90% of the protestors are very peaceable and march without violence (I saw people in sea turtle costumes yesterday... I almost ran over to them to see how they had made the costumes). The last 10% seem to be made up of people who really want to cause trouble for no reason other than to do it. The police, while having a mandate to keep things orderly, simply are not able to effectively handle this violent 10% and have ended up messing with people who are merely onlookers or minding their own business. Very unfortunate and stupid. Oh... yeah... the President drove by my office this morning and waved to me... This situation is so weird and so not Seattle... Laurellen mka Tammie L. Dupuis www.vertetsable.com The Renaissance Tailor ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 2 15:29:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA23296 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 15:29:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA21235; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 14:44:28 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA17429 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 14:43:35 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo21.mx.aol.com (imo21.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.65]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17419 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 14:43:33 -0700 (MST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.4.) id 6.0.44decf55 (4463) for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 16:42:58 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.44decf55.257841e2@aol.com> Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 16:42:58 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: WTO - very OT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 44 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 12/02/1999 3:14:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, mrq_laurellen@hotmail.com writes: << This situation is so weird and so not Seattle. >> Too much Starbucks coffee, perhaps. To put in a historical perspective ....I remember as a kid in Greensboro, NC machine guns on the tops of buildings and National Guard marching & patrolling around. This was the early 60s and they thought because of the Woolworth's sit-in in the 50s that Greensboro would be the scene of major race riots. Of course protesting over equal rights I can understand better than what's going on in Seattle. They all look like they're wearing parkas made in Indonesia anyway. But then I know zero about the WTO. Maybe this will get me and others to find something out. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 2 16:56:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA23402 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 16:56:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA05875; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 16:14:09 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA11189 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 16:13:51 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta2-svc.virgin.net (mta2-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.143]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA11175 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 16:13:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from LOCALNAME ([194.168.74.34]) by mta2-svc.virgin.net (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with SMTP id <19991202231248.CTCT16298.mta2-svc@LOCALNAME> for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 23:12:48 +0000 Message-ID: <38477261.6F59@virgin.net> Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 23:33:53 -0800 From: Dawn Organization: ages of elegance (http://www.ageofelegance.dabsol.co.uk) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-VN712-000 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Plumes and Furs References: <002501bf3c82$0ec575a0$0200a8c0@mamabear.stormypetrel.com> <007d01bf3cc0$42aa07d0$86075cc3@herimats> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dawn I spoke to my friend about this. He is THE plumemaker to many MOD's around the world and he doesn't use anything at all. I use herbal balls made from lavender,rosemary,sage and some other herbs Dawn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 2 17:15:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA23423 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 17:15:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA08832; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 16:34:08 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA17113 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 16:32:34 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ntserver1.mainsaver.com ([206.17.202.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA17097 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 16:32:33 -0700 (MST) Received: by HP-LH3 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 15:23:57 -0800 Message-ID: <5B38B8D7EED8D211997F00A0C9E57FB91DB666@HP-LH3> From: MAGGIE SECARA To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Plumes and Furs Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 15:23:52 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MAGGIE SECARA Is the lavendar a specific for moths, or does it matter? MaggiRos > ---------- > From: Dawn[SMTP:dawn.wood1@virgin.net] > Reply To: h-costume@indra.com > Sent: Thursday, December 02, 1999 11:33 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: Plumes and Furs > > > -Poster: Dawn > > I spoke to my friend about this. He is THE plumemaker to many MOD's > around the world and he doesn't use anything at all. > I use herbal balls made from lavender,rosemary,sage and some other herbs > > Dawn > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 2 17:27:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA23437 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 17:27:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA10535; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 16:45:36 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA20651 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 16:45:28 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta4-svc.virgin.net (mta4-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.145]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA20636 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 16:45:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from LOCALNAME ([194.168.74.34]) by mta4-svc.virgin.net (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with SMTP id <19991202234515.JFQ4401.mta4-svc@LOCALNAME> for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 23:45:15 +0000 Message-ID: <384779CF.794E@virgin.net> Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 00:05:35 -0800 From: Dawn Organization: ages of elegance (http://www.ageofelegance.dabsol.co.uk) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-VN712-000 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Plumes and Furs References: <5B38B8D7EED8D211997F00A0C9E57FB91DB666@HP-LH3> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dawn MAGGIE SECARA wrote: > > -Poster: MAGGIE SECARA > > Is the lavendar a specific for moths, or does it matter? It apparently was used a great deal for moth as was rosemary, with the added advantage that they smell nice. I have several old herbals which mention them. I also like cedar wood and wouldn't but a mothball near anything I wanted to wear as it affects my breathing Dawn > > MaggiRos > > > ---------- > > From: Dawn[SMTP:dawn.wood1@virgin.net] > > Reply To: h-costume@indra.com > > Sent: Thursday, December 02, 1999 11:33 PM > > To: h-costume@indra.com > > Subject: Re: H-COST: Plumes and Furs > > > > > > -Poster: Dawn > > > > I spoke to my friend about this. He is THE plumemaker to many MOD's > > around the world and he doesn't use anything at all. > > I use herbal balls made from lavender,rosemary,sage and some other herbs > > > > Dawn > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 2 17:45:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA23450 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 17:45:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA12964; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 17:03:50 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA26501 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 17:03:42 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from Herb-Lore.com (mail.herb-lore.com [209.141.89.62]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA26473 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 17:03:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from Flohrschutz [207.204.223.215] by Herb-Lore.com (SMTPD32-5.05) id A6D420680060; Thu, 02 Dec 1999 17:03:16 -0700 Message-ID: <007001bf3d2a$35da8f60$d7dfcccf@Flohrschutz> From: "Heather" To: Subject: H-COST: American Girls Clothing Design Software Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 17:03:27 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Heather" I was at Target earlier today and saw American Girls Clothing Design Software. It looked like you could create paperdoll and do some limited clothing design. I didn't get a chance to read the package, but I immediately thought of this list. Some of you with girls might be interested in this. Heather _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 2 20:42:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA23710 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 20:42:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA05958; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 20:01:43 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA28211 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 20:01:26 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ionet.net (root@mail.ionet.net [206.41.128.16]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA28199 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 20:01:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from buck (ip82.phoenix8.az.pub-ip.psi.net [38.29.61.82]) by ionet.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id VAA03716 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 21:01:20 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <001901bf3d3a$bd054560$523d1d26@buck> From: "Dean Quackenbush" To: References: <0.44decf55.257841e2@aol.com> Subject: H-COST: Slub, dyed fur, differences in fabric treatments Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 20:01:45 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Dean Quackenbush" I just got my birthday present: Fashion in Detail by Avril Hart and Susan North. It has wonderful photos of extant items from the late 17th century (and 18th). I was wondering, since it is a little later than my interest (1500-1600) what your opinions were on whether or not the colors (dyes available), embelishments, fabric manipulations were significantly different than those of, say, 50-80 years earlier. I'm not asking about style, as that is obviously different. One of my particular interests is dyed fur. This book has an example of dyed rabbit fur. The other is that I have heared repeatedly that fabric with a slub in it would not have been used. This book and another I have has examples of linen with a definate slub. Does anyone know where the 'fact' that fabrics with a slub would not have been used might have come from? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 2 22:09:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA23892 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 22:09:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA16644; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 21:25:39 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA12083 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 21:25:07 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA12076 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 21:25:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from test (ip36.toronto7.dialup.canada.psi.net [154.5.73.36]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA21878 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 23:24:58 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19991201221801.0092de30@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 22:18:01 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: frog closures In-Reply-To: <0.c7b0078b.25760441@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >Does anyone know when frog closures came into being used? My daughter asked >today why they are called frog closures and I realized that I don't really >know. Does anyone know? I don't know why they're called frogs but, I have seen them used in numerous 16th century portraits. Particularily Spanish. Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 2 22:29:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA23901 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 22:28:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA18502; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 21:46:28 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA15080 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 21:46:19 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mtiwmhc09.worldnet.att.net (mtiwgwc03.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.18]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA15072 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 21:46:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([63.14.115.216]) by mtiwmhc09.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19991203044543.WJHY21197@worldnet.att.net> for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 04:45:43 +0000 Message-ID: <384749C1.FCFA2B75@worldnet.att.net> Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 20:40:33 -0800 From: don and carolyn richardson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-WNS5.0 (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Plumes and Furs / Moth balls References: <199912012317.QAA10593@net.indra.com> <38469973.F3AB3E76@flash.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: don and carolyn richardson "V. Renée Bedford" wrote: > > -Poster: "V. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9e?= Bedford" > > I was *so* hoping someone else would ask this! Along the U.S. Gulf Coast and thereabouts, we have > awful problems with an as-yet unmentioned (unless I missed it) beastie...roaches. Ugh! > > I'm told these nasty critters are frequently responsible for holes in garments...especially garments > stored without prior cleaning. (A little hole in a acetate velvet dress was blamed on a roach > munching away a spot of spilled food. Shudder...visions of insect parties in my closet at night!) > > Any possible truth to this? And do moth balls / cedar / lavendar repel roaches? Thanks, Renee (in > humid Houston, Texas) I don't know what kind of roaches you have in Houston, Renee, but the ones we had in Hawaii weren't fazed in the slightest by anything I could think of short of pyrethrins. They laughed at moth balls, cedar and lavendar. However, roaches have no interest in clean clothes as far as I can tell - they left my clothes alone as long as they were clean. But for some reason they loved to eat my watercolors (and no, they weren't temperas). Carolyn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 2 22:41:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA23934 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 22:41:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA19889; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 21:59:34 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA16845 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 21:59:29 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA16839 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 21:59:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA20413 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 20:59:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-61.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.61]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA03226 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 20:59:25 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <005701bf3d4d$80d545a0$6420fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: References: <19991202191050.MPXL20526.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> Subject: Re: H-COST: WTO - very OT Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 21:16:05 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0054_01BF3D0A.71DF7360" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0054_01BF3D0A.71DF7360 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable WTO - very OTR.L. Shep and Tammy, or anyone else in that area, Please be careful.=20 Michelle ------=_NextPart_000_0054_01BF3D0A.71DF7360 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable WTO - very OT
R.L. Shep and Tammy, or anyone else in that = area,
 
  Please be careful.
 
Michelle
------=_NextPart_000_0054_01BF3D0A.71DF7360-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 2 22:59:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA23976 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 22:59:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA21629; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 22:16:55 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA19504 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 22:16:45 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA19496 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 22:16:42 -0700 (MST) Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 22:16:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 24739 invoked from network); 3 Dec 1999 05:16:35 -0000 Received: from 68.64.3-6.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (HELO JOANJURA) (207.231.64.68) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 3 Dec 1999 05:16:35 -0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19991202211726.3d1fd222@mail2.quiknet.com> X-Sender: joanj@mail2.quiknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: Re: H-COST: Scottish resources Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Joan M Jurancich At 09:56 AM 12/2/99 -0500, Patricia Szekely wrote: > >-Poster: "Patricia Szekely" > >Just wondering if anyone can direct me to resources for Scotland. In >particular Scottish ladies in the late 16th century. Can be highland or >lowland or whatever. I am just starting, and need all of the references I >can get. > >Thanks in advance : ) > >Tricia Well, it's probably disappointing, but the Scottish ladies of the late 16th century dressed pretty much like English ladies of the same time period , only less richly, since Scotland was not a rich country. Look for references about James VI of Scotland (became James I of England after Elizabeth's death); he married Anne of Denmark in the 1580s (IIRC). Unfortunately, portraiture in the Scottish court was not as common as in the English; most of the portraits of James and Anne that I am familiar with were done *after* James became King of England in 1603. One author to look for is _J. Telfar Dunbar_. He is *by far* the most reliable historian of Scottish clothing. Most of the others I have seen are from the 19th century and have a romantic attachment to Scottish highland dress styles (often inventions). Good luck on your researches (and have fun!), Joan Jurancich Sacramento, CA joanj@quiknet.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 2 23:30:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA24012 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 23:30:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA24423; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 22:47:31 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA23390 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 22:47:08 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA23372 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 22:47:01 -0700 (MST) Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 22:47:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 500 invoked from network); 3 Dec 1999 05:46:57 -0000 Received: from 68.64.3-6.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (HELO JOANJURA) (207.231.64.68) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 3 Dec 1999 05:46:57 -0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19991202214748.3d17d176@mail2.quiknet.com> X-Sender: joanj@mail2.quiknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: Re: H-COST: Slub, dyed fur, differences in fabric treatments Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Joan M Jurancich At 08:01 PM 12/2/99 -0700, Dean Quackenbush wrote: > >-Poster: "Dean Quackenbush" > >I just got my birthday present: Fashion in Detail by Avril Hart and Susan >North. It has wonderful photos of extant items from the late 17th century >(and 18th). I was wondering, since it is a little later than my interest >(1500-1600) what your opinions were on whether or not the colors (dyes >available), embelishments, fabric manipulations were significantly different >than those of, say, 50-80 years earlier. I'm not asking about style, as >that is obviously different. > >One of my particular interests is dyed fur. This book has an example of >dyed rabbit fur. >The other is that I have heared repeatedly that fabric with a slub in it >would not have been used. This book and another I have has examples of >linen with a definate slub. Does anyone know where the 'fact' that fabrics >with a slub would not have been used might have come from? Two questions about the linen: 1) What was the magnification used for the detail? Under high magnification even the smoothest linen will show "slubs". And 2), what was the thread count (tpi=threads per inch or tpc=threads per centimeter)? Lower thread count means coarser fibers, which will give you a "slubbier" thread. The occasional slub is expected, but is not a design element in the fabric. Remember that *all* the linen woven in that time was made from thread spun by hand. Even the best spinner cannot make an absolutely perfectly even thread all the time, although she could come close. That said, as I recall the earlier list discussion, we were talking about dating the advent of a deliberately slubby *silk* fabric as a fashion fabric. As far as I know, silk fabrics in Europe in the 16th century were made from reeled or thrown silk where slubs were definite faults, not design features. This friendly spinner, weaver, and all-around fiber-fanatic sends you her congratulations on such a lovely birthday gift, Joan Jurancich Sacramento, CA joanj@quiknet.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 3 00:24:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA24072 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 00:24:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA28807; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 23:41:34 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA00471 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 23:41:20 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from slowworm.ebay.com (slowworm.ebay.com [216.32.120.70]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA00454 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 23:41:18 -0700 (MST) From: joanj@quiknet.com Received: from leaffrog.ebay.com (leaffrog.ebay.com [216.32.120.76]) by slowworm.ebay.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA06785 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 22:41:14 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199912030641.WAA06785@slowworm.ebay.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Interesting item on eBay web site item#212081594: ANTIQUE HAT FORM BLOCK ADJUSTABLE STRETCHER Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 22:41:18 Pacific Standard Time Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: joanj@quiknet.com I saw this item for sale at eBay and thought that a member of this list might be interested. Joan Jurancich Sacramento, CA Title of item: ANTIQUE HAT FORM BLOCK ADJUSTABLE STRETCHER Seller: gcgc@sympatico.ca Starts: 12/01/99, 18:07:39 PST Ends: 12/08/99, 18:07:39 PST Price: Currently $9.00 To bid on the item, go to: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=212081594 Item Description: When form is closed: 21" or 53 cm diameter When form is extended: 23" 1/2 or 60 cm Metal handle and wood adjustable hat form or stretcher. Marked 6 3/4 on bottom. Two graduated pins 6 7/8 to 7 5/8 and 21 5/8 to (unreadable). In very good condition. Visit eBay, the world's largest Personal Trading Community at http://www.ebay.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 3 03:46:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA29445 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 03:46:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA12169; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 03:02:58 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA19832 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 03:02:33 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA19822 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 03:02:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) id <01JJ27GQQHGG00364M@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 10:02:27 GMT Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.56.3]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) with ESMTP id <01JJ27G6K9LE0030RU@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Fri, 03 Dec 1999 10:01:48 +0000 (GMT) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); 3 Dec 99 09:59:20 GMT0BST Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44) ; 3 Dec 99 09:59:07 GMT0BST Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.126) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; 3 Dec 99 09:59:04 GMT0BST Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 09:59:04 +0000 (GMT) From: Teddy Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: V-back collars/pourpoints In-reply-to: <199912022332.QAA17193@net.indra.com> To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Teddy > - -Poster: Cynthia Barnes > > OK, that's pretty much what I was working on, too. If you dont do a > CB seam in the V-inset, how do you get it to "stand" at the back? I'm not sure I understand the question - The collar is the regular stand-collar shape at the top, but instead of the straight line across the bottom (where it would fit into a higher/rounded neckhole) it extends down into the V shape at the centre back. Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of air and darkness, apparently!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 3 04:37:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA29536 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 04:37:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA14588; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 03:54:45 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA22358 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 03:54:38 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from whirlwind.netspace.net.au (whirlwind.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.70]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA22348 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 03:54:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from netspace.net.au.netspace.net.au (dialup-t1-433.Melbourne.netspace.net.au [210.15.251.179]) by whirlwind.netspace.net.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/NS) with ESMTP id VAA20384 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 21:54:27 +1100 (EST) Message-Id: <199912031054.VAA20384@whirlwind.netspace.net.au> From: "Christopher Ballis" To: Subject: H-COST: Moths in Australia (off-ish topic) Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 21:53:10 +1100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Christopher Ballis" In Australia, a large moth is the Bogon variety, named for the region they inhabit. They have a migratory path close to the national Capital, Canberra. In the 1980s, when the new Parliament House was built, a large light was placed atop it's sphire and guess what... Yep, the moths were diverted from thier migration and infested the place. Lesson? If coming to Australia, do not visit Canberra in your costume! Still, could be worse, could be in Japan - anyone seen that Mothra movie? Phew! -C. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 3 07:26:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA29672 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 07:26:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA25158; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 06:42:45 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA08297 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 06:42:31 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bodyguard.apsc.com (bodyguard.apsc.com [137.91.114.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA08292 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 06:42:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailhub.apsc.com (mailhub.apsc.commailhub.apsc.com [137.91.1.30]) by apsc.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA05489 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 06:57:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from nt170.apsc.com (nt170.apsc.com [137.91.1.61]) by mailhub.apsc.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA14383 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 06:42:21 -0700 (MST) Received: by nt170.apsc.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 06:42:21 -0700 Message-ID: <7F402D0574C3D011ACF000A0C92B23D3025E1116@nt13pv.apsc.com> From: "Knauf, Saragrace T(Z02001)" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: H-COST: 'Fashion in Detail new book:' was Slub, dyed fur, differences in fabric treatments Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 06:42:19 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Knauf, Saragrace T(Z02001)" This is an incredible book, I woke up early to read more. Another question: I have a costume Nazi (I love Margo's snark term-where does it come from?) who insists that delicately woven, i.e. brocade, or patterned weaving (with different colors)wasn't possible between 1550-1600 because the 'machines didn't exist'. Now its been awhile, but I have been to the textile museum in D.C. and it seems I recall that stuff as early as 700 b.c.. Most of it was from the middle east, but it had elephants, metal thread all woven into the fabric, not embroidered. Since we have to 'prove' to her that we are 'right', I need written or photographic evidence. This book has such fabric, but it is more in the 1740's range. Did weaving techniques change that much?? Also, fabric color: While it is difficult to tell because of photography, lighting and degradation, some of these colors are quite bright-any opinions on whether dying changed that much? I would conjecture not, just because I wouldn't think that synthetic dyes were becoming available even then. Any points to resources would be appreciated. -----Original Message----- From: Dean Quackenbush [mailto:deanq@paloverde.com] Sent: Thursday, December 02, 1999 8:02 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Slub, dyed fur, differences in fabric treatments -Poster: "Dean Quackenbush" I just got my birthday present: Fashion in Detail by Avril Hart and Susan North. It has wonderful photos of extant items from the late 17th century (and 18th). I was wondering, since it is a little later than my interest (1500-1600) what your opinions were on whether or not the colors (dyes available), embelishments, fabric manipulations were significantly different than those of, say, 50-80 years earlier. I'm not asking about style, as that is obviously different. One of my particular interests is dyed fur. This book has an example of dyed rabbit fur. The other is that I have heared repeatedly that fabric with a slub in it would not have been used. This book and another I have has examples of linen with a definate slub. Does anyone know where the 'fact' that fabrics with a slub would not have been used might have come from? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 3 07:32:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA29678 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 07:32:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA25693; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 06:50:22 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA09061 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 06:50:00 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bodyguard.apsc.com (bodyguard.apsc.com [137.91.114.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA09056 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 06:49:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailhub.apsc.com (mailhub.apsc.commailhub.apsc.com [137.91.1.30]) by apsc.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA05690; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 07:05:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from nt219.apsc.com (nt219.apsc.com [137.91.1.75]) by mailhub.apsc.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA14611; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 06:49:55 -0700 (MST) Received: by nt219.apsc.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 06:49:59 -0700 Message-ID: <7F402D0574C3D011ACF000A0C92B23D3025E1117@nt13pv.apsc.com> From: "Knauf, Saragrace T(Z02001)" To: "'joanj@quiknet.com]'" , "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Slub, dyed fur, differences in fabric treatments Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 06:49:55 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Knauf, Saragrace T(Z02001)" Joan, I don't have both books with me, but one in particular is on the history of silk. The linen bodice is shown because of the silk embroidery. It is a shot at a distance that allows you to see the whole bodice on a large page. The slub is obvious at even that distance and isn't just here and there, it is everywhere. And what puzzled me more is that it is described as being court dress. In the other book, Fashion in Detail, the slubs are more like what you described, just here and there. But there is a jacket dating in the early 1600's that is coarsely woven linen. It almost looks like the raw silk popular today, fairly open weave in 'natural' colors. It does specify that the jacket would probably not have been worn in public, but used at home. When I get home tonight I will send the name, author and ISBN number of that book. -----Original Message----- From: Joan M Jurancich [mailto:joanj@quiknet.com] Sent: Thursday, December 02, 1999 10:47 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Slub, dyed fur, differences in fabric treatments -Poster: Joan M Jurancich At 08:01 PM 12/2/99 -0700, Dean Quackenbush wrote: > >-Poster: "Dean Quackenbush" > >I just got my birthday present: Fashion in Detail by Avril Hart and Susan >North. It has wonderful photos of extant items from the late 17th century >(and 18th). I was wondering, since it is a little later than my interest >(1500-1600) what your opinions were on whether or not the colors (dyes >available), embelishments, fabric manipulations were significantly different >than those of, say, 50-80 years earlier. I'm not asking about style, as >that is obviously different. > >One of my particular interests is dyed fur. This book has an example of >dyed rabbit fur. >The other is that I have heared repeatedly that fabric with a slub in it >would not have been used. This book and another I have has examples of >linen with a definate slub. Does anyone know where the 'fact' that fabrics >with a slub would not have been used might have come from? Two questions about the linen: 1) What was the magnification used for the detail? Under high magnification even the smoothest linen will show "slubs". And 2), what was the thread count (tpi=threads per inch or tpc=threads per centimeter)? Lower thread count means coarser fibers, which will give you a "slubbier" thread. The occasional slub is expected, but is not a design element in the fabric. Remember that *all* the linen woven in that time was made from thread spun by hand. Even the best spinner cannot make an absolutely perfectly even thread all the time, although she could come close. That said, as I recall the earlier list discussion, we were talking about dating the advent of a deliberately slubby *silk* fabric as a fashion fabric. As far as I know, silk fabrics in Europe in the 16th century were made from reeled or thrown silk where slubs were definite faults, not design features. This friendly spinner, weaver, and all-around fiber-fanatic sends you her congratulations on such a lovely birthday gift, Joan Jurancich Sacramento, CA joanj@quiknet.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 3 07:44:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA29687 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 07:44:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA26770; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 07:03:02 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA10615 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 07:02:48 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.bellatlantic.net (mail1.bellatlantic.net [199.45.32.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA10599 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 07:02:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from thibault.org (client-151-197-111-148.bellatlantic.net [151.197.111.148]) by mail1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA05480 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 09:06:19 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3847CCC9.90C2E771@thibault.org> Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 09:00:17 -0500 From: Cynthia Virtue Organization: Virtue Ventures http://www.virtue.to X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 'Fashion in Detail new book:' was Slub, dyed fur, differences infabric treatments References: <7F402D0574C3D011ACF000A0C92B23D3025E1116@nt13pv.apsc.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cynthia Virtue "Knauf, Saragrace T" wrote: > who insists that delicately woven, i.e. brocade, or patterned weaving (with > different colors) wasn't possible between 1550-1600 because the 'machines > didn't exist'. I believe this is incorrect. The fancy machines were invented to replace master weavers, who were doing this sort of thing already. I don't have pictures, but an account of some actual fabric I saw at the Chicago Institute of Art is at with a few images of paintings showing similar fabrics. For solid documentation, there are the Museum of London books, and Janet Arnold. cv -- "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet LXXXI "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia V. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 3 08:17:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA29726 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 08:17:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA29647; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 07:34:53 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA15115 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 07:34:39 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA15105 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 07:34:37 -0700 (MST) From: Cheryldee@aol.com Received: from Cheryldee@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.4.) id 6.0.bf493c0d (3924) for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 09:33:56 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.bf493c0d.25792ed3@aol.com> Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 09:33:55 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: 'Fashion in Detail new book:' was Slub, dyed fur, differences i... To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 44 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cheryldee@aol.com In a message dated 12/3/99 7:05:22 AM Mountain Standard Time, cvirtue@thibault.org writes: << I believe this is incorrect. The fancy machines were invented to replace master weavers, who were doing this sort of thing already. I don't have pictures, but an account of some actual fabric I saw at the Chicago Institute of Art is at with a few images of paintings showing similar fabrics. For solid documentation, there are the Museum of London books, and Janet Arnold. >> OK. I'm not a weaver although I have dabbled. My recollection is that the fancy loom you're referring to is the Jaquard loom which was a 16-harness loom. Before that 2 and 4-harness looms were the standard. This would mean that each motif would have had to be worked painstakingly by hand. No small feat, but doable. Cheryl Odom, not an authority by any means _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 3 08:50:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA29758 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 08:50:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA04697; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 08:08:17 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA20863 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 08:08:00 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA20854 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 08:07:58 -0700 (MST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.4.) id 6.0.22a697c1 (4188) for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 10:07:21 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.22a697c1.257936a9@aol.com> Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 10:07:21 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: 'Fashion in Detail new book:' was Slub, dyed fur, differences i... To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 44 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 12/03/1999 9:35:51 AM Eastern Standard Time, Cheryldee@aol.com writes: << would have had to be worked painstakingly by hand. >> Err....EVERYTHING before machines were " worked painstakingly by hand". _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 3 10:14:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29865 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 10:14:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA16469; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 09:31:21 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA11518 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 09:30:49 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA11501 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 09:30:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p22.directcon.net [206.170.184.71]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA14699 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 08:28:35 -0800 Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 08:28:35 -0800 Message-Id: <199912031628.IAA14699@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: 'Fashion in Detail new book:' was Slub, dyed fur, differences in fabric treatments Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson At 06:42 AM 12/03/1999 -0700, you wrote: > >-Poster: "Knauf, Saragrace T(Z02001)" > >This is an incredible book, I woke up early to read more. Another question: >I have a costume Nazi (I love Margo's snark term-where does it come from?) Wait a minute, that's not my term. It's a fairly common one, but I have a profound distate for it: to me, it trivializes the greatest tragedy in history. I usually use "costume police" in this context. No apologies are needed, I know it's easy to misremember who said what on a list as active as this one. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 3 10:15:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29873 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 10:15:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA16803; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 09:32:52 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA11979 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 09:32:43 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA11967 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 09:32:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p22.directcon.net [206.170.184.71]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA14962 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 08:30:39 -0800 Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 08:30:39 -0800 Message-Id: <199912031630.IAA14962@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: 'Fashion in Detail new book:' was Slub, dyed fur, differences in fabric treatments Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson Oops, just after I hit"send" I realized the writer might have meant the word "Snark" rhather than "Nazi". If so, I don't really know where I got it. It sounds right, though, doesn't it? Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 3 10:32:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29907 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 10:32:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA19416; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 09:49:41 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA16541 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 09:49:29 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA16533 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 09:49:27 -0700 (MST) From: Hhdunlap@aol.com Received: from Hhdunlap@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.4.) id 6.0.ead41600 (3961) for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 11:48:52 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.ead41600.25794e74@aol.com> Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 11:48:52 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: Moth balls To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows sub 32 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Hhdunlap@aol.com I think moths do go for the food spills on woolen clothes. I doen't trust dry cleaners to do a thorough job of cleaning, however. I wash all my woolen knits with Orvus Paste in the washer on gentle, lay flat to dry, then freeze 3 days in plastic zip lock bags before storing. It is effective and foolproof. Wovens are tougher, as ready-to-wear isn't preshrunk and doesn't tolerate water. Then you have to rely on the cleaners, but you can still wrap them in plastic and hang them outdoors in freezing weather, or lay them in the freezer for a time. Hope _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 3 10:39:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29944 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 10:39:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA20610; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 09:57:00 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA18690 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 09:56:46 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bodyguard.apsc.com (bodyguard.apsc.com [137.91.114.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA18678 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 09:56:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailhub.apsc.com (mailhub.apsc.commailhub.apsc.com [137.91.1.30]) by apsc.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA18516 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 10:11:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from nt219.apsc.com (nt219.apsc.com [137.91.1.75]) by mailhub.apsc.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA29455 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 09:55:28 -0700 (MST) Received: by nt219.apsc.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 09:55:35 -0700 Message-ID: <7F402D0574C3D011ACF000A0C92B23D3025E111C@nt13pv.apsc.com> From: "Knauf, Saragrace T(Z02001)" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: 'Fashion in Detail new book:' was Slub, dyed fur, di fferences in fabric treatments Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 09:55:27 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Knauf, Saragrace T(Z02001)" Snark was what I meant. Darn I thought it was an acronym for something like the statement you had made (I think) earlier in one of your posts "Who died and made you Janet Arnold"-WDAMYJA-nope doesn't have the same ring as SNARK. -----Original Message----- From: Margo Anderson [mailto:margo@directcon.net] Sent: Friday, December 03, 1999 9:31 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 'Fashion in Detail new book:' was Slub, dyed fur, differences in fabric treatments -Poster: Margo Anderson Oops, just after I hit"send" I realized the writer might have meant the word "Snark" rhather than "Nazi". If so, I don't really know where I got it. It sounds right, though, doesn't it? Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 3 11:21:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA29990 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 11:21:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA26585; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 10:32:18 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA28735 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 10:31:43 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.greatbasin.net (mail.greatbasin.net [207.228.35.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA28710 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 10:31:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from dfenwick (virt2218.virtual.state.nv.us [167.154.2.218]) by mail.greatbasin.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA20914 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 09:31:37 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <004201bf3db3$f68031a0$fe0110ac@dfenwick> From: "Dan Fenwick" To: References: <7F402D0574C3D011ACF000A0C92B23D3025E1116@nt13pv.apsc.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: 'Fashion in Detail new book:' was Slub, dyed fur, differences in fabric treatments Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 09:29:30 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Dan Fenwick" > This is an incredible book, I woke up early to read more. Another question: > I have a costume Nazi (I love Margo's snark term-where does it come from?) > who insists that delicately woven, i.e. brocade, or patterned weaving (with > different colors)wasn't possible between 1550-1600 because the 'machines > didn't exist'. Now its been awhile, but I have been to the textile museum > in D.C. and it seems I recall that stuff as early as 700 b.c.. Most of it > was from the middle east, but it had elephants, metal thread all woven into > the fabric, not embroidered. Since we have to 'prove' to her that we are > 'right', I need written or photographic evidence. You can purchase color slides of the Pourpoint of Charles de Blois from the Musée des Tissus in Lyon, France. The museum dates it as prior to Charles' death in 1364. It is made from a brocade with a slightly off-white back ground and gold thread for the pattern of lions and eagles in octagons (or is it hexagons? Anyway...) You can also find pictures of it in a few books, but I haven't seen any in color in the books. Dan _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 3 11:25:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA29994 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 11:25:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA27353; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 10:36:29 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA29967 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 10:36:24 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29940 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 10:36:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p12.directcon.net [206.170.184.61]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA23008 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 09:34:20 -0800 Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 09:34:20 -0800 Message-Id: <199912031734.JAA23008@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: RE: H-COST: 'Fashion in Detail new book:' was Slub, dyed fur, differences in fabric treatments Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson At 09:55 AM 12/03/1999 -0700, you wrote: > >-Poster: "Knauf, Saragrace T(Z02001)" > >Snark was what I meant. Darn I thought it was an acronym for something Ooh, let's make something up to fit it! >like the statement you had made (I think) earlier in one of your posts "Who >died and made you Janet Arnold"-WDAMYJA-nope doesn't have the same ring as >SNARK. It's not as funny since Ms. Arnold died, either. Too bad, I really liked its effect on the snarks. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 3 11:31:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA30024 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 11:31:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29433; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 10:48:02 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA03711 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 10:47:43 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from kuku.excite.com (kuku-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.63]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03698 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 10:47:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from pugsly.excite.com ([199.172.148.160]) by kuku.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP id <19991203174348.XZFC19682.kuku.excite.com@pugsly.excite.com> for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 09:43:48 -0800 Message-ID: <18901484.944243028127.JavaMail.imail@pugsly.excite.com> Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 09:43:48 -0800 (PST) From: StitchWitch To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: H-COST: 'Fashion in Detail new book:' was Slub, dyed fur, differences in fabric treatments Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 144.163.130.106 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: StitchWitch > >Snark was what I meant. Darn I thought it was an acronym for something > > Ooh, let's make something up to fit it! Sew-ers Needing A Reality Kick? (Sorry, OT, but I couldn't resist.) Kate ---- StitchWitch In our play we reveal what kind of people we are. - Ovid, c.e. 8 _______________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 3 11:47:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA30033 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 11:47:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02268; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 11:06:04 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA09263 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 11:05:56 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bigred.unl.edu (00217146@bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09249 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 11:05:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (00217146@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA03465 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 12:10:54 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 12:10:53 -0600 (CST) From: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: "snark" In-Reply-To: <199912031734.JAA23008@apollo.directcon.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> > >Snark was what I meant. Darn I thought it was an acronym for something > > Ooh, let's make something up to fit it! Sorry, No Advice Required, Kiddo! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 3 11:59:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA30043 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 11:59:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA03851; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 11:17:07 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA13371 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 11:16:55 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bigred.unl.edu (00217146@bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13344 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 11:16:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (00217146@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA25434 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 12:21:54 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 12:21:53 -0600 (CST) From: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Another Snark Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> Superior Nobody, Always (Regretfully,) "Knowing" Sorry. It's a habit. Make it a game, and I'll play. Emma _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 3 12:02:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA30058 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 12:02:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA04459; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 11:21:14 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA14607 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 11:20:59 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.wa.home.com [24.0.2.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA14596 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 11:20:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from [24.9.58.36] by mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991203182055.JDH20526.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 10:20:55 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.0c (197) Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 09:53:57 -0800 Subject: Re: H-COST: 'Fashion in Detail new book:' was Slub, dyed fur, differences infabric treatments From: "R.L. Shep" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19991203182055.JDH20526.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "R.L. Shep" I can't buy that notion at all! There are many examples and documentation about fabrics being woven by hand in different colors and with patterns not only in Euope but all over the world. ~!~ R.L.Shep http://www.rlshep.com ---------- >From: Cynthia Virtue >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: Re: H-COST: 'Fashion in Detail new book:' was Slub, dyed fur, differences infabric treatments >Date: Fri, Dec 3, 1999, 6:00 AM > > >-Poster: Cynthia Virtue > >"Knauf, Saragrace T" wrote: >> who insists that delicately woven, i.e. brocade, or patterned weaving (with >> different colors) wasn't possible between 1550-1600 because the 'machines >> didn't exist'. > >I believe this is incorrect. The fancy machines were invented to >replace master weavers, who were doing this sort of thing already. > >I don't have pictures, but an account of some actual fabric I saw at the >Chicago Institute of Art is at > with a few >images of paintings showing similar fabrics. For solid documentation, >there are the Museum of London books, and Janet Arnold. > >cv >-- > "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet LXXXI > "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia V. > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 3 12:04:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA30064 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 12:04:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA04740; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 11:22:29 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA15068 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 11:22:20 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA15059 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 11:22:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991203182217.IKCJ7535.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 10:22:17 -0800 Message-ID: <38480A62.9806B44D@home.com> Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 12:22:26 -0600 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: "snark" References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kat & Kent Snotty Nonrequested "Advice" Rendered Kuttingly Sinfully Nosey Advisor Reminiscent (of) Kobolds Sees Nothing Accurate Regardless, Kemosabe Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 3 12:14:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA30079 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 12:14:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06753; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 11:31:43 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA17273 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 11:29:41 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ntserver1.mainsaver.com ([206.17.202.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA17265 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 11:29:38 -0700 (MST) Received: by HP-LH3 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 10:21:01 -0800 Message-ID: <5B38B8D7EED8D211997F00A0C9E57FB91DB66B@HP-LH3> From: MAGGIE SECARA To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: 'Fashion in Detail new book:' was Slub, dyed fur, di fferences infabric treatments Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 10:20:55 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MAGGIE SECARA There's always someone who things everyone in the past was stupid, and that nothing of quality can be made without machines. Like the visitor to Colonial Williamsburg who told the sadler that what he was doing was impossible because only machines could do that kind of work. Or another, who wondered with awe if they had needles "back then". It's not even a matter of what we think is true. There are plenty of portraits that show all kinds of fancy woven stuff. There's no need to prove anything to an aggressivly misinformed person who probably will find some reason not to believe you anyway, no matter how sound your evidence, because they think "it isn't logical." MaggiRos > ---------- > From: R.L. Shep[SMTP:rlshep@home.com] > Reply To: h-costume@indra.com > Sent: Friday, December 03, 1999 9:53 AM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: 'Fashion in Detail new book:' was Slub, dyed > fur, differences infabric treatments > > > -Poster: "R.L. Shep" > > I can't buy that notion at all! There are many examples and documentation > about fabrics being woven by hand in different colors and with patterns > not > only in Euope but all over the world. > ~!~ R.L.Shep > http://www.rlshep.com > > ---------- > >From: Cynthia Virtue > >To: h-costume@indra.com > >Subject: Re: H-COST: 'Fashion in Detail new book:' was Slub, dyed fur, > differences infabric treatments > >Date: Fri, Dec 3, 1999, 6:00 AM > > > > > > >-Poster: Cynthia Virtue > > > >"Knauf, Saragrace T" wrote: > >> who insists that delicately woven, i.e. brocade, or patterned weaving > (with > >> different colors) wasn't possible between 1550-1600 because the > 'machines > >> didn't exist'. > > > >I believe this is incorrect. The fancy machines were invented to > >replace master weavers, who were doing this sort of thing already. > > > >I don't have pictures, but an account of some actual fabric I saw at the > >Chicago Institute of Art is at > > with a few > >images of paintings showing similar fabrics. For solid documentation, > >there are the Museum of London books, and Janet Arnold. > > > >cv > >-- > > "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet LXXXI > > "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia V. > > _________________________________________________________________ > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 3 12:27:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA30099 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 12:27:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09294; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 11:45:30 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA21980 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 11:45:04 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1 ([204.86.241.250]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA21935 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 11:44:56 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail1 with MERCUR-SMTP/POP3/IMAP4-Server (v3.00.28 AS-1409036) for at Fri, 3 Dec 1999 10:35:53 -0800 Received: by HHSMAIL with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 10:43:28 -0800 Message-ID: <1D0F5BB98E98D311B17E0008C75D0B3A03EC1F@HHSMAIL> From: "Bergdahl, Stephen" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: 'Fashion in Detail new book:' was Slub, dyed fur, di fferences infabric treatments Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 10:43:23 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Bergdahl, Stephen" Maggie makes a very good point. That type of person will never let something as simple as facts get in the way of what they "Know". Best example I have heard to date was at Fort Sutter here in Sacramento. Someone told one of the Docents that the wood floor was "wrong" because they had used nails. After a few minutes of conversion it became clear that there was no getting through to this guy that nails are period for most of history. She just looked him in the eye, and told him, "Your right sir. They screwed Jesus to the cross!" It still makes me laugh to thing about it. -----Original Message----- From: MAGGIE SECARA [mailto:SECARAM@mainsaver.com] Sent: Friday, December 03, 1999 10:21 AM To: 'h-costume@indra.com' Subject: RE: H-COST: 'Fashion in Detail new book:' was Slub, dyed fur, di fferences infabric treatments -Poster: MAGGIE SECARA There's always someone who things everyone in the past was stupid, and that nothing of quality can be made without machines. Like the visitor to Colonial Williamsburg who told the sadler that what he was doing was impossible because only machines could do that kind of work. Or another, who wondered with awe if they had needles "back then". It's not even a matter of what we think is true. There are plenty of portraits that show all kinds of fancy woven stuff. There's no need to prove anything to an aggressivly misinformed person who probably will find some reason not to believe you anyway, no matter how sound your evidence, because they think "it isn't logical." MaggiRos _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 3 12:33:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA30111 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 12:33:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09965; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 11:50:29 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA23538 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 11:50:25 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from scl-ims.phoenix.com (scl-ims.phoenix.com [134.122.1.73]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA23532 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 11:50:23 -0700 (MST) Received: by scl-ims.phoenix.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 10:50:12 -0800 Message-ID: <1F176F2C2977D311B3300090270E637841AB12@scl-exch.phoenix.com> From: Cynthia Barnes To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Mus=E9e_des_Tissus_catalog=3F?= Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 10:50:22 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id LAA23533 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cynthia Barnes >You can purchase color slides of the Pourpoint of Charles de Blois from the >Musée des Tissus in Lyon, France. You can also find pictures of it in a few books, >but I haven't seen any in color in the books. Nor have I. Does the MdT have a catalog? Do you know it's name? I'm afraid I dont actually own a slide projector. So retrotech. --cin Cynthia Barnes 408.570.1023 Cynthia_Barnes@phoenix.com Phoenix Technologies 411 E. Plumeria Dr. San Jose CA 95134 "I think animal testing is a terrible idea; they get all nervous and give the wrong answers." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 3 12:40:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA30122 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 12:40:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11070; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 11:57:46 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA25497 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 11:57:38 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from scl-ims.phoenix.com (scl-ims.phoenix.com [134.122.1.73]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA25477 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 11:57:35 -0700 (MST) Received: by scl-ims.phoenix.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 10:57:24 -0800 Message-ID: <1F176F2C2977D311B3300090270E637841AB1A@scl-exch.phoenix.com> From: Cynthia Barnes To: "H-Costume (E-mail)" Subject: H-COST: Colonial Williamsburg exhibit Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 10:57:34 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cynthia Barnes I see in the Jan '00 issue of "Threads" that Colonial Williamsburg has an exhibit "Revealing Fashions" (1750-1790) where the garments are shown specifically to reveal construction techniques. There's a book _Costume Closeup_ supposed to be available soon w/ patterns. If anyone has seen the show or the book, I'd be delighted to read your review, --cin Cynthia Barnes 408.570.1023 Cynthia_Barnes@phoenix.com Phoenix Technologies 411 E. Plumeria Dr. San Jose CA 95134 "I think animal testing is a terrible idea; they get all nervous and give the wrong answers." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 3 12:41:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA30129 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 12:41:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11315; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 11:59:00 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA25831 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 11:58:56 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bodyguard.apsc.com (bodyguard.apsc.com [137.91.114.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA25807 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 11:58:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailhub.apsc.com (mailhub.apsc.commailhub.apsc.com [137.91.1.30]) by apsc.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA27705 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 12:14:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from nt219.apsc.com (nt219.apsc.com [137.91.1.75]) by mailhub.apsc.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA09957 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 11:58:46 -0700 (MST) Received: by nt219.apsc.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 11:58:52 -0700 Message-ID: <7F402D0574C3D011ACF000A0C92B23D3025E111D@nt13pv.apsc.com> From: "Knauf, Saragrace T(Z02001)" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: H-COST: =?iso-8859-1?Q?RE=3A_H-COST=3A_Mus=E9e_des_Tissus_catalog=3F?= Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 11:58:41 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id LAA25814 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Knauf, Saragrace T(Z02001)" You can take a slide and have it developed into a pic, or even put on disk! Got an address for the Museum anyone, or might we find it on line?? -----Original Message----- From: Cynthia Barnes [mailto:Cynthia_Barnes@Phoenix.com] Sent: Friday, December 03, 1999 11:50 AM To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Musée des Tissus catalog? -Poster: Cynthia Barnes >You can purchase color slides of the Pourpoint of Charles de Blois from the >Musée des Tissus in Lyon, France. You can also find pictures of it in a few books, >but I haven't seen any in color in the books. Nor have I. Does the MdT have a catalog? Do you know it's name? I'm afraid I dont actually own a slide projector. So retrotech. --cin Cynthia Barnes 408.570.1023 Cynthia_Barnes@phoenix.com Phoenix Technologies 411 E. Plumeria Dr. San Jose CA 95134 "I think animal testing is a terrible idea; they get all nervous and give the wrong answers." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 3 12:46:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA30147 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 12:46:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA12303; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 12:03:55 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA27308 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 12:03:45 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27286 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 12:03:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA19304 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 20:03:26 +0100 (MET) Received: from henk (vp230-122.worldonline.nl [195.241.230.122]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA26665 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 20:03:25 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <006f01bf3dc0$da4f2ba0$7ae6f1c3@henk> From: "Henk 't Jong - tScapreel" To: References: <38480A62.9806B44D@home.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: "snark" Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 19:49:36 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Henk 't Jong - tScapreel" Hi > Snotty Nonrequested "Advice" Rendered Kuttingly > > Sinfully Nosey Advisor Reminiscent (of) Kobolds > > Sees Nothing Accurate Regardless, Kemosabe > ROTFL especially at the last one! Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 3 12:46:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA30157 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 12:46:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA12300; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 12:03:55 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA27303 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 12:03:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27285 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 12:03:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA09538 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 14:03:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA22916 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 14:04:18 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 14:04:18 -0500 (EST) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: "snark" In-Reply-To: <38480A62.9806B44D@home.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: aleed Snotty, Nasty And Righteous Know-it-all On Fri, 3 Dec 1999, Kat & Kent wrote: > > -Poster: Kat & Kent > > Snotty Nonrequested "Advice" Rendered Kuttingly > > Sinfully Nosey Advisor Reminiscent (of) Kobolds > > Sees Nothing Accurate Regardless, Kemosabe > > Kat > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 3 12:53:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA30173 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 12:53:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA13394; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 12:11:04 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA29183 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 12:10:54 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA29169 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 12:10:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA16016 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 11:11:11 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <38481600.288BC702@serv.net> Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 11:12:00 -0800 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: RE: H-COST: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Mus=E9e?= des Tissus catalog? References: <7F402D0574C3D011ACF000A0C92B23D3025E111D@nt13pv.apsc.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris http://www.lyon.cci.fr/musee-des-tissus/ > You can take a slide and have it developed into a pic, or even put on disk! > Got an address for the Museum anyone, or might we find it on line?? > > >You can purchase color slides of the Pourpoint of Charles de Blois from the > >Musée des Tissus in Lyon, France. -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of AnTir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 3 12:58:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA30178 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 12:58:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA13979; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 12:15:45 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA00517 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 12:15:14 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from netwiz.net (Mail.NetWiz.Net [208.136.106.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00499 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 12:15:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from agnes (BayArea56k514.NetWiz.Net [208.164.208.114]) by netwiz.net (8.9.2/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA27934 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 11:15:07 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <38481672.11C6@netwiz.net> Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 11:13:54 -0800 From: Susan Fatemi X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: brocades, history, etcl References: <5B38B8D7EED8D211997F00A0C9E57FB91DB66B@HP-LH3> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Susan Fatemi MAGGIE SECARA wrote: > > -Poster: MAGGIE SECARA > > There's always someone who things everyone in the past was stupid, and that > nothing of quality can be made without machines. Like the visitor to > Colonial Williamsburg who told the sadler that what he was doing was > impossible because only machines could do that kind of work. Or another, > who wondered with awe if they had needles "back then". I go the other way -- I can't imagine how machines can do stuff I only know how to do by hand! As to brocade weaves, the Chinese invented the draw-loom which allows elaborate patterning. Not sure of the date, but poss. B.C. And the Central Asian and Persian weavers learned it from them, and so on. Numerous examples of T'ang dynasty (ca 8-9th c.) patterned silks have been found in western China (formerly Chinese Turkestan) of Chinese manufacture as well as Sogdian and Iranian. Susan F. -- Oh Noh! Kimonos! susanf@netwiz.net http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 3 13:02:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA30189 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 13:02:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA14389; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 12:19:26 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA01498 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 12:19:17 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.greatbasin.net (mail.greatbasin.net [207.228.35.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01486 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 12:19:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from dfenwick (virt2218.virtual.state.nv.us [167.154.2.218]) by mail.greatbasin.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA09067 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 11:19:09 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <00c301bf3dc2$fe047d00$fe0110ac@dfenwick> From: "Dan Fenwick" To: References: <1F176F2C2977D311B3300090270E637841AB12@scl-exch.phoenix.com> Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_H-COST:_Mus=E9e_des_Tissus_catalog=3F?= Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 11:16:58 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Dan Fenwick" > >You can purchase color slides of the Pourpoint of Charles de Blois from the > >Musée des Tissus in Lyon, France. You can also find pictures of it in a > few books, > >but I haven't seen any in color in the books. > > Nor have I. Does the MdT have a catalog? Do you know it's name? > I'm afraid I dont actually own a slide projector. So retrotech. > --cin I actually got an email contact from their web site at http://www.lyon.cci.fr/musee-des-tissus/musee00.htm and emailed them. I explained what I was doing and they recommended 5 images, one of them being a closup of the fabric that also shows a seem right down the middle of it. They were very nice to deal with, although the email was about half in French. I only purchaced rights to use the images myself. I did not get rights to redistribute or publish. I took the slides and had them scanned so I could print them out and also blow them up on my monitor to get better detail. They printed out beautifuly as 8x10's from my HP 810C on the high grade HP photo paper. Dan _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 3 13:03:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA30197 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 13:03:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA14613; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 12:20:49 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA01884 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 12:20:44 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01872 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 12:20:42 -0700 (MST) From: SAQUEEN@aol.com Received: from SAQUEEN@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.4.) id 6.0.f3d1239 (4559) for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 14:20:07 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.f3d1239.257971e7@aol.com> Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 14:20:07 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: Colonial Williamsburg exhibit To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 38 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: SAQUEEN@aol.com Cynthia, Book is due out NLT December 31, 1999 and exhibit is due to open the first week of January to coordinate with the symposium that starts January 9. Stay tuned. I saw a draft chapter in the early stages of development -- comes with scale drawings and construction details of selected garments in the CW collection. Sally Costume Collections Calendar Series Calendar 2000: Historic Fashions Turning the Centuries www.sallyqueenassociates.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 3 13:14:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA30203 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 13:14:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA15935; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 12:31:07 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA04747 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 12:30:57 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA04731 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 12:30:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 11tyPt-000OMH-0A for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 19:30:54 +0000 Message-ID: <1aD5pAAcoBS4IwHx@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 19:29:32 +0000 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: H-COST: Clothes beasties OT In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19991202100132.006a41ac@pop.service.ohio-state.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a <$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Jean Waddie In message <3.0.3.32.19991202100132.006a41ac@pop.service.ohio- state.edu>, "Marsha J. Hamilton" writes >But I do wonder how UK folks keep natural fibers from deteriorating in >all the damp. Or is it only damp in Scotland (where the towels never >seemed to dry out while I was on vacation there?). I know Scotland has a terrible social problem of damp in housing, but I've never had any trouble with fabrics - certainly not in year-to-year terms, though I don't know about preserving costumes over long periods. Reasonable heating and ventilation is all it needs. Admittedly our towels never dry in the bathroom, but I think that's down to the lack of either - we hang them over a chair in the living room :) -- Jean Waddie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 3 13:16:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA30210 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 13:16:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA16313; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 12:33:00 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA05289 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 12:32:57 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from Herb-Lore.com (mail.herb-lore.com [209.141.89.62]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05271 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 12:32:54 -0700 (MST) Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 12:32:37 -0700 Message-Id: <199912031232.AA783679794@Herb-Lore.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: "heather " To: Subject: Re: H-COST: "snark" X-Mailer: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "heather " >Snotty, Nasty And Righteous Know-it-all This one gets my vote for favorite!! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 3 13:23:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA30243 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 13:23:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA17637; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 12:42:38 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA07779 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 12:42:31 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.60]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA07759 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 12:42:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from 207-172-86-146.s146.tnt6.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com ([207.172.86.146] helo=e4c2n6) by smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #3) id 11tyat-0000kF-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 14:42:16 -0500 Message-ID: <010b01bf3dc6$67f6a6e0$9256accf@e4c2n6> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Subject: H-COST: Baby Doll Dresses Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 14:41:31 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" Several months ago, we were discussing baby dolls dresses that were popular in the last 1960s to early 1970s. These are dresses worn by teenagers that were VERY short and sometimes had matching short bloomers. I found Baby Doll dress documentation last night in an excellent book called Couture- The Great Designers. Two designers had pictures of them in the book. I think one was Bill Blass in 1968. My Simplicity patterns date 1971. The designers did call them Baby Doll dresses. The image of my Baby Doll dresses pattern is at http://www.costumegallery.com/patter1.jpg Later... Penny http://www.costumegallery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 3 14:14:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA30355 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 14:14:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24876; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 13:33:00 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA19903 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 13:32:32 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.68]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA19884 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 13:32:29 -0700 (MST) From: Cheryldee@aol.com Received: from Cheryldee@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.4.) id 6.0.13f429bf (4197) for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 15:31:52 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.13f429bf.257982b7@aol.com> Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 15:31:51 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: 'Fashion in Detail new book:' was Slub, dyed fur, differences i... To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 44 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cheryldee@aol.com In a message dated 12/3/99 8:09:32 AM Mountain Standard Time, AlbertCat@aol.com writes: << In a message dated 12/03/1999 9:35:51 AM Eastern Standard Time, Cheryldee@aol.com writes: << would have had to be worked painstakingly by hand. >> Err....EVERYTHING before machines were " worked painstakingly by hand". >> Meaning the threads would have had to be woven without the use of a harness. Point of clarification. Cheryl _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 3 15:15:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA30423 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 15:15:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA04722; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 14:34:06 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA08711 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 14:33:44 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo21.mx.aol.com (imo21.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.65]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA08695 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 14:33:41 -0700 (MST) From: Panmela@aol.com Received: from Panmela@aol.com by imo21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.4.) id 6.0.c4717721 (2719) for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 16:33:10 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.c4717721.25799116@aol.com> Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 16:33:10 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: Baby Doll Dresses To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Panmela@aol.com These dresses were also called "skimmers". Unfortunately, I tossed the pattern I used as a teenager when I moved about a year ago. Didn't think ANYONE would be interested in it. Pamela D. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 3 15:27:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA30442 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 15:27:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06251; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 14:45:16 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA12031 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 14:44:52 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA12022 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 14:44:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA03351 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 13:44:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-185.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.185]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA11796 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 13:44:43 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <006101bf3dd9$f3edaaa0$6516fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: References: Subject: Re: H-COST: "snark" Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 14:01:27 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" > > >Snark was what I meant. Darn I thought it was an acronym for something > > > > Ooh, let's make something up to fit it! I can't believe I am actually saying this but... How about 'snarc' Sorry Novice Attempt for Required Costume _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 3 15:36:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA30455 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 15:36:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA07444; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 14:55:05 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA14827 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 14:54:50 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA14814 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 14:54:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA22477 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 13:55:13 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <38483C72.8BC86598@serv.net> Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 13:56:02 -0800 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: "snark" References: <006101bf3dd9$f3edaaa0$6516fea9@gunsafes> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > How about 'snarc' > Sorry Novice Attempt for Required Costume Except that it implies that it is the fault of the person being criticized. :} Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of AnTir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 3 16:00:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA30470 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 16:00:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA10329; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 15:19:17 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA21395 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 15:19:04 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from scl-ims.phoenix.com (scl-ims.phoenix.com [134.122.1.73]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA21377 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 15:19:03 -0700 (MST) Received: by scl-ims.phoenix.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 14:18:48 -0800 Message-ID: <1F176F2C2977D311B3300090270E637841ABC4@scl-exch.phoenix.com> From: Cynthia Barnes To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: RE: h-costume-digest V4 #823 Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 14:18:57 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cynthia Barnes >- -Poster: "Knauf, Saragrace T(Z02001)" >You can take a slide and have it developed into a pic, or even put on disk! >Got an address for the Museum anyone, or might we find it on line?? Sure, have a field day. I didnt see the pourpoint in the pics. Believe me, I would have downloaded that image so fast even porn pics would pull aside. http://www.lyon.cci.fr/musee-des-tissus/ --cin Cynthia Barnes 408.570.1023 Cynthia_Barnes@phoenix.com Phoenix Technologies 411 E. Plumeria Dr. San Jose CA 95134 "I think animal testing is a terrible idea; they get all nervous and give the wrong answers." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 3 16:07:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA30479 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 16:07:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA11077; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 15:26:01 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA23280 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 15:25:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA23262 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 15:25:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA21845 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 17:25:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA28763 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 17:26:30 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 17:26:30 -0500 (EST) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: The Hunting of the Snark In-Reply-To: <199912031232.AA783679794@Herb-Lore.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: aleed With heartfelt apologies to Lewis Carroll. (and any English Lit majors out there..) The Hunting of the Snark or An Agonizing 8 Fittings "Just the place for a Snark!" The seamstress cried, Arranging her skirts with care; Wearing machine-stitched clothing with pride, Her finger aloft in the air. "Just the place for a Snark! I have said it twice: That alone should bring one round. Just the place for a Snark! I have said it thrice: By god, I'll stand my ground. "Come listen, my ladies; I'll tell you again the five unmistakeable marks by which you may know, wherever you go, the warrented, genuine Snarks. "Let us take them in order. The first is their taste, An excess of which makes them quite rude; Unless it's handwoven, hand-spun and hand-sewn, You're better off totally nude. "You may seek them with thimbles--but seek them with care! You may lure them with velvet as well, You may ask them for documentation for their Inexpressibly period smell." Yes, I'll stop now...You know it's a slow friday at work when... Drea On Fri, 3 Dec 1999, heather wrote: > > -Poster: "heather " > > >Snotty, Nasty And Righteous Know-it-all > > This one gets my vote for favorite!! > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 3 16:10:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA30489 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 16:10:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA11395; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 15:29:02 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA24028 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 15:28:53 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web112.yahoomail.com (web112.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.82]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA24012 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 15:28:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 23092 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Dec 1999 22:28:50 -0000 Message-ID: <19991203222850.23091.qmail@web112.yahoomail.com> Received: from [198.207.198.61] by web112.yahoomail.com; Fri, 03 Dec 1999 14:28:50 PST Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 14:28:50 -0800 (PST) From: Lyssandre MacKenzie Subject: Re: H-COST: The Hunting of the Snark To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lyssandre MacKenzie I may "borrow" these with the gracious permission of the ladies/ gentlemen wo thougth of them! Wonderful!! Noelle --- aleed wrote: > > -Poster: aleed > > With heartfelt apologies to Lewis Carroll. (and any > English Lit majors > out there..) > > The Hunting of the Snark > or > An Agonizing 8 Fittings > > "Just the place for a Snark!" The seamstress cried, > Arranging her skirts with care; > Wearing machine-stitched clothing with pride, > Her finger aloft in the air. > > "Just the place for a Snark! I have said it twice: > That alone should bring one round. > Just the place for a Snark! I have said it thrice: > By god, I'll stand my ground. > > "Come listen, my ladies; I'll tell you again > the five unmistakeable marks > by which you may know, wherever you go, > the warrented, genuine Snarks. > > "Let us take them in order. The first is their > taste, > An excess of which makes them quite rude; > Unless it's handwoven, hand-spun and hand-sewn, > You're better off totally nude. > > "You may seek them with thimbles--but seek them with > care! > You may lure them with velvet as well, > You may ask them for documentation for their > Inexpressibly period smell." > > Yes, I'll stop now...You know it's a slow friday at > work when... > > Drea > > > On Fri, 3 Dec 1999, heather wrote: > > > > > -Poster: "heather " > > > > >Snotty, Nasty And Righteous Know-it-all > > > > This one gets my vote for favorite!! > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to > majordomo@indra.com > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to > majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 3 16:10:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA30493 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 16:10:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA11428; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 15:29:08 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA24077 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 15:29:05 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sight.vcn.com (sight.vcn.com [208.162.240.3]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24063 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 15:29:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from default (vcn113.usrtc-1.gill.wy.vcn.com [209.193.67.113]) by sight.vcn.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA06763 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 15:28:59 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <027a01bf3dde$3b7f5d60$4743c1d1@default> From: "Frank A Thallas Jr" To: References: Subject: Re: H-COST: The Hunting of the Snark Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 15:32:04 -0700 Organization: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Frank A Thallas Jr" Hah! Perfect....... Liadain, giggling > > -Poster: aleed > > With heartfelt apologies to Lewis Carroll. (and any English Lit majors > out there..) > > The Hunting of the Snark > or > An Agonizing 8 Fittings > > "Just the place for a Snark!" The seamstress cried, > Arranging her skirts with care; > Wearing machine-stitched clothing with pride, > Her finger aloft in the air. > > "Just the place for a Snark! I have said it twice: > That alone should bring one round. > Just the place for a Snark! I have said it thrice: > By god, I'll stand my ground. > > "Come listen, my ladies; I'll tell you again > the five unmistakeable marks > by which you may know, wherever you go, > the warrented, genuine Snarks. > > "Let us take them in order. The first is their taste, > An excess of which makes them quite rude; > Unless it's handwoven, hand-spun and hand-sewn, > You're better off totally nude. > > "You may seek them with thimbles--but seek them with care! > You may lure them with velvet as well, > You may ask them for documentation for their > Inexpressibly period smell." > > Yes, I'll stop now...You know it's a slow friday at work when... > > Drea > > > On Fri, 3 Dec 1999, heather wrote: > > > > > -Poster: "heather " > > > > >Snotty, Nasty And Righteous Know-it-all > > > > This one gets my vote for favorite!! > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 3 16:19:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA30497 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 16:19:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12498; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 15:38:16 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA26283 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 15:38:02 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from kuku.excite.com (kuku-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.63]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA26271 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 15:38:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from pugsly.excite.com ([199.172.148.160]) by fortune.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP id <19991203223532.BKPT22679.fortune.excite.com@pugsly.excite.com> for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 14:35:32 -0800 Message-ID: <2911597.944260532489.JavaMail.imail@pugsly.excite.com> Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 14:35:32 -0800 (PST) From: StitchWitch To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: "snark" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 144.163.130.106 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: StitchWitch > -Poster: aleed > > > Snotty, Nasty And Righteous Know-it-all I vote for this one! Kate ---- StitchWitch In our play we reveal what kind of people we are. - Ovid, c.e. 8 _______________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 3 16:41:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA30511 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 16:41:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA16368; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 16:00:08 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA02466 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 15:59:55 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.greatbasin.net (mail.greatbasin.net [207.228.35.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA02454 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 15:59:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from dfenwick (rno-max2-50.gbis.net [207.228.60.178]) by mail.greatbasin.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA08462 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 14:59:48 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <015b01bf3de1$cf9074f0$fe0110ac@dfenwick> From: "Dan Fenwick" To: References: <1F176F2C2977D311B3300090270E637841ABC4@scl-exch.phoenix.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: RE: h-costume-digest V4 #823 Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 14:57:39 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Dan Fenwick" > >- -Poster: "Knauf, Saragrace T(Z02001)" > >You can take a slide and have it developed into a pic, or even put on disk! > >Got an address for the Museum anyone, or might we find it on line?? > > Sure, have a field day. I didnt see the pourpoint in the pics. Believe me, > I would > have downloaded that image so fast even porn pics would pull aside. > http://www.lyon.cci.fr/musee-des-tissus/ > --cin They don't have any pics of it online. You have to pay to get pics. But, at least tehy are good, clear pics. Dan _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 3 16:46:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA30516 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 16:46:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA17286; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 16:05:26 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA03853 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 16:05:22 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from scl-ims.phoenix.com (scl-ims.phoenix.com [134.122.1.73]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA03839 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 16:05:19 -0700 (MST) Received: by scl-ims.phoenix.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 15:05:09 -0800 Message-ID: <1F176F2C2977D311B3300090270E637841ABE6@scl-exch.phoenix.com> From: Cynthia Barnes To: "H-Costume (E-mail)" Cc: SAQUEEN@aol.com Subject: H-COST: Colonial Williamsburg costume exhibit Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 15:05:18 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cynthia Barnes >Book is due out NLT December 31, 1999 and exhibit is due to open the first week of January to coordinate with the symposium that starts January 9. Stay tuned. I saw a draft chapter in the early stages of development -- comes with scale drawings and construction details of selected garments in the CW collection. "Threads" really wrong then. They say it opened 4 Dec (thru 4 Sept). They also said the book s/b in stores on 15 Dec which jives w/ what you say. It's seems quite cheap at US$25. Here's the info number if anyone else wants to call: 757..220.7724 CW Dec Arts Museum. It's after hours. The tape has no info about the current exhibits & programs. Hmmm, I'd hoped to run thru CW when I'm in VA in a few weeks. See my old school, run up & down DOG street. --cin Cynthia Barnes 408.570.1023 Cynthia_Barnes@phoenix.com Phoenix Technologies 411 E. Plumeria Dr. San Jose CA 95134 "I think animal testing is a terrible idea; they get all nervous and give the wrong answers." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 3 16:49:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA30564 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 16:49:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA18097; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 16:08:28 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA05008 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 16:08:24 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from wilma.widomaker.com (smtp@wilma.widomaker.com [204.17.220.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA04958 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 16:08:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from [206.246.249.228] by wilma.widomaker.com with smtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for h-costume@indra.com id 11u1o6-0001u2-00; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 18:08:06 -0500 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19991203230426.00825244@widomaker.com> X-Sender: rcarnegie@widomaker.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 18:04:26 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Ron Carnegie Subject: Re: H-COST: Colonial Williamsburg exhibit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Ron Carnegie At 02:20 PM 12/3/99 EST, you wrote: > >-Poster: SAQUEEN@aol.com > >Cynthia, > >Book is due out NLT December 31, 1999 and exhibit is due to open the first >week of January to coordinate with the symposium that starts January 9. Stay >tuned. I saw a draft chapter in the early stages of development -- comes with >scale drawings and construction details of selected garments in the CW >collection. > >Sally > The Colonial Williamsburg newspaper, and the Daily Press both state that the exhibit opens tomorrow. Cheers, Ron Carnegie rcarnegie@widomaker.com ************************************************* "The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground walked other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow." G.M. Trevelyan ************************************************* _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 3 16:51:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA30570 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 16:51:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA18202; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 16:09:00 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA05169 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 16:08:57 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from wodc7mr3.ffx.ops.us.uu.net (wodc7mr3.ffx.ops.us.uu.net [192.48.96.19]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA05157 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 16:08:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from sews080 by wodc7mr3.ffx.ops.us.uu.net with SMTP (peer crosschecked as: og3pool109-80.corp.us.uu.net [153.39.109.80]) id QQhsbc07357 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 23:06:20 GMT Message-Id: From: "Jessica Wilbur" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 18:07:15 -0500 Subject: Re: H-COST: Colonial Williamsburg costume exhibit Priority: normal In-reply-to: <1F176F2C2977D311B3300090270E637841ABE6@scl-exch.phoenix.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.00 beta 6) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Jessica Wilbur" > > Hmmm, I'd hoped to run thru CW when I'm in VA in a few weeks. See my old > school, run up & down DOG street. > > --cin > Cynthia Barnes Hey, another William & Mary alum? Cool! =) I'm actually going to be driving through the burg this weekend.... I'm looking forward to a Cheese Shop sandwich. ;-) --Jessica (class of '95 - yes, I'm young) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 3 17:03:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA30600 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 17:03:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA19915; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 16:22:18 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA08462 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 16:21:50 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA08443 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 16:21:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.176] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11u21K-0003wV-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 15:21:47 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19991123192220.00bbf880@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 15:07:13 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Clothes beasties OT In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19991202100132.006a41ac@pop.service.ohio-state.ed u> References: <007d01bf3cc0$42aa07d0$86075cc3@herimats> <002501bf3c82$0ec575a0$0200a8c0@mamabear.stormypetrel.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Well, I don't care if my clothes moths are an endangered species - I'm squishing them whenever possible, along with all those carpet beetles (who eat the same things). BTW, you forgot to list earthquakes (she said, from California). >>the clothes moth has long since died out in the UK (and poss Europe)... >-------------------- > >Question from the U.S. to the U.K.... >Correct me if I'm wrong--the clothes moth has died out, no rabies, >you don't have killer tornados every spring and fall, the mosquitos aren't >the size of humming birds, hurricanes don't wipe out your coastal cities, >your temperatures don't vary from -20 to 100 degrees F with 99% humidity, >you don't have major droughts that turn everything into a dust bowl, no >massive fields of ragweed and other allergens everywhere.... > >I can't decide if it's idyllic or downright unchallenging! > >But I do wonder how UK folks keep natural fibers from deteriorating in >all the damp. Or is it only damp in Scotland (where the towels never >seemed to dry out while I was on vacation there?). Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 3 17:04:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA30604 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 17:04:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA19841; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 16:22:04 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA08431 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 16:21:47 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA08412 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 16:21:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.176] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11u21G-0003wV-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 15:21:42 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19991123183527.00bba880@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 15:06:58 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: H-COST: authentic vs. stage/theatrical (was The Messenger/movies) In-Reply-To: <009d01bf3b9b$9c437720$94a2193f@oemcomputer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows 'Innacurate' historical costuming on stage and screen isn't necessarily the same as bad theatrical/movie costuming. Sure, there are choices based on ignorance, but there are also choices based on design, purpose, message, and like that. Complain about the first, but understand the second. There exist some valid reasons why costume designers will choose not to do 100% accurate copies of historical costumes when they costume a stage/screen production. Most important is the fact that one can 'talk' to a modern audience better, in some cases, by digressing from absolute accuracy in a way that the modern audience can understand. You can make statements by choosing what you have the characters wear, even if it isn't strictly period. Like having the villain wear a black hat. Like putting a Stratford On Avon souvenir mug into the movie Shakespeare In Love, or (same movie) using Lurex 'gold' embroidery so there will be enough glittery gold on the costumes. Like simplifying the details so they will show up from the last row of seats in the theatre. Budget is another factor. As in, how good can we afford to get, or how can we suggest what we want using only the money we have. "Champaigne period on a beer budget". I am usually of the '3-D Xerox' school of historical costuming, but have also done some theatrical costuming - sometimes I have been allocated less for the entire costuming budget than I have spent on single historical outfits of my own. >It seems like many of you here on the list seem to disapprove of the >costumes in many movies, including most recently, _The Messenger_. > >May I respectfully request that instead of just making blanket negative >statements, perhaps it would better serve everyone on the list if we were >more specific and give real reasons why a particular article was or wasn't >correct. References to good books and websites are always welcome. I, like >many others here, am a novice costumer/historian. Every day I try to >improve upon my knowledge base, and this list is a very valuable tool for >doing so. I very much enjoy the comments and information shared by >everyone, but IMHO it serves no real purpose to just flatly dismiss >something just because "I heard it was awful". > >Another observation: I've often gotten the impression in different movies >that the costumes may not be correct for the time that is being portrayed, >but perhaps were perfectly acceptable in and of themselves. In other words, >"good costume, wrong movie". Yes, No? Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 3 17:04:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA30608 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 17:04:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA19838; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 16:22:03 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA08474 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 16:21:52 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA08464 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 16:21:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.176] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11u21M-0003wV-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 15:21:48 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19991123195006.00bbd500@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 15:07:19 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Moths in UK In-Reply-To: References: <199912021502.IAA28065@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows carpet-beetle) All sorted now thanks to some nasty stuff >from the local vet, Please tell. What nasty stuff is this? In addition to everything else, we have wool carpeting here. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 3 17:04:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA30612 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 17:04:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA19903; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 16:22:16 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA08458 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 16:21:49 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA08427 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 16:21:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.176] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11u21I-0003wV-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 15:21:45 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19991123191849.00bbb920@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 15:07:06 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Snaps In-Reply-To: <002401bf3bb5$e552ee40$dc920f3f@pbc.adelphia.net> References: <009d01bf3b9b$9c437720$94a2193f@oemcomputer> <00a201bf3c18$704fc1a0$ac350418@C59303A> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Teens or early twenties? >When did snaps come into play for clothing and accessories? General time >frame is fine. I am just too tired to look into myself and thought maybe >someone knows off the top of their head. It's not important, just curious. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 3 17:21:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA30626 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 17:21:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA21990; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 16:40:01 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA12533 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 16:39:33 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from postal.grin.net (root@postal.grin.net [209.104.220.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA12504 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 16:39:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from [208.225.99.216] (ppp216.creative.net [208.225.99.216]) by postal.grin.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA16847 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 15:49:27 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: lilinah@mail.grin.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 15:47:37 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lilinah biti-Anat Subject: Re: H-COST: Moths in UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lilinah biti-Anat Teddy wrote: >Ahh, but we have other challenges, like American actors who >*think* they can do English accents (anyone watch "Buffy"?) and >MacDonalds. Ah, c'mon, Spikey is *cute*! Now what i can't stand is Gwenyth Paltrow's awful fraudulent English accent, fortunately somewhat modified and improved in "Shakespeare in Love". She sounds like she has a clothespin on her nose and something is wrong with her palate... OK, i know there's no costume content in this... sorry... Lilinah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 3 17:28:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA30634 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 17:28:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA22966; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 16:47:52 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA14559 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 16:47:45 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.8]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA14546 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 16:47:43 -0700 (MST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.4.) id 6.0.1c391c25 (4116) for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 18:47:06 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.1c391c25.2579b07a@aol.com> Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 18:47:06 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: The Hunting of the Snark To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 44 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 12/03/1999 5:26:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, aleed@dnaco.net writes: << With heartfelt apologies to Lewis Carroll. (and any English Lit majors out there..) >> I use to have this in a big book with fantastic lithographs for the award winning illustrations by.....by....Damn! Ralph ....something that begins "ST" [he also illustrated an "Alice in Wonderland" and a Through the Looking Glass"...all incredibly wonderful!] _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 3 17:51:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA30659 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 17:51:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA25827; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 17:09:58 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA19663 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 17:09:42 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.68]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA19642 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 17:09:39 -0700 (MST) From: SAQUEEN@aol.com Received: from SAQUEEN@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.4.) id 6.0.4d9c1e28 (2619) for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 19:09:03 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.4d9c1e28.2579b59f@aol.com> Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 19:09:03 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: Colonial Williamsburg exhibit To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 38 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: SAQUEEN@aol.com Yea, That's good news that the exhibit is open during the busy Christmas season. Thanks for the update! Ron, any mention of book publish date? Sally Costume Collection Calendar Series Calendar 2000: Historic Fashions Turning the Centuries http://www.sallyqueenassociates.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 3 18:08:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA30677 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 18:08:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA28423; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 17:27:09 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA23197 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 17:27:02 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA23182 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 17:26:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p26.directcon.net [206.170.184.75]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA06885 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 16:24:55 -0800 Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 16:24:55 -0800 Message-Id: <199912040024.QAA06885@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: The Hunting of the Snark Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson Oh, Brava, Milady! Now the big question...does this go on your website or mine? It's too good not to share! Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 3 18:15:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA30683 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 18:15:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA29258; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 17:33:13 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA24469 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 17:32:49 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from postal.grin.net (root@postal.grin.net [209.104.220.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA24459 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 17:32:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from [208.225.99.216] (ppp216.creative.net [208.225.99.216]) by postal.grin.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA18845 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 16:42:50 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: lilinah@mail.grin.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <0.1c391c25.2579b07a@aol.com> References: <0.1c391c25.2579b07a@aol.com> Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 16:41:02 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lilinah biti-Anat Subject: Re: H-COST: The Hunting of the Snark Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lilinah biti-Anat >-Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com >I use to have this in a big book with fantastic lithographs for the award >winning illustrations by.....by....Damn! Ralph ....something that begins "ST" >[he also illustrated an "Alice in Wonderland" and a Through the Looking >Glass"...all incredibly wonderful!] Ralph Steadman. Very psychotic looking. I have a couple of his books... Lilinah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 3 18:35:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA30713 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 18:35:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA01469; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 17:54:29 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA28095 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 17:54:19 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA28080 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 17:54:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA29414 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 16:54:43 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <38486684.1E34DB@serv.net> Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 16:55:32 -0800 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: The Hunting of the Snark References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > The Hunting of the Snark > or > An Agonizing 8 Fittings > > Yes, I'll stop now...You know it's a slow friday at work when... ROTFLMAO!!! I pray that you continue in this vein, you clearly have a knack. And then when you've covered all bases, please, on any website! Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of AnTir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 3 20:15:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA30999 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 20:15:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA09755; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 19:34:11 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA12856 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 19:33:48 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA12850 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 19:33:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.230.178] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11u516-00000b-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 18:33:45 -0800 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 18:29:34 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: RE: H-COST: 'Fashion in Detail new book:' was Slub, dyed fur, differences in fabric treatments In-Reply-To: <199912031734.JAA23008@apollo.directcon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 09:34 AM 12/03/1999 -0800, you wrote: > >-Poster: Margo Anderson > >At 09:55 AM 12/03/1999 -0700, you wrote: >> >>-Poster: "Knauf, Saragrace T(Z02001)" >> >>Snark was what I meant. Darn I thought it was an acronym for something > >Ooh, let's make something up to fit it! Well, the 'sn' part must stand for "snide"... Carol _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 3 20:45:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA31030 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 20:45:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA12572; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 20:04:16 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA16691 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 20:03:59 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from wilma.widomaker.com (smtp@wilma.widomaker.com [204.17.220.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA16674 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 20:03:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.96.185.16] by wilma.widomaker.com with smtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for h-costume@indra.com id 11u5UE-0003lO-00; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 22:03:51 -0500 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19991204030011.00827af0@widomaker.com> X-Sender: rcarnegie@widomaker.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 22:00:11 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Ron Carnegie Subject: Re: H-COST: Colonial Williamsburg exhibit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Ron Carnegie At 07:09 PM 12/3/99 EST, you wrote: > >-Poster: SAQUEEN@aol.com > >Yea, > >That's good news that the exhibit is open during the busy Christmas season. >Thanks for the update! > >Ron, any mention of book publish date? > >Sally > >Costume Collection Calendar Series >Calendar 2000: Historic Fashions Turning the Centuries >http://www.sallyqueenassociates.com It sounds like the book has been held up...I am wondering if that is part of the inconsistancy with the dates. I may go see the exhibit sunday. Cheers, Ron Carnegie rcarnegie@widomaker.com ************************************************* "The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground walked other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow." G.M. Trevelyan ************************************************* _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 3 21:11:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA31059 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 21:11:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA15031; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 20:30:23 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA20026 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 20:30:17 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ivic.ivic.net (ivic.ivic.net [207.51.248.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA20010 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 20:30:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from default (ivic-dyn114.ivic.net [207.51.248.114]) by ivic.ivic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA02320 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 19:02:26 -0800 Message-Id: <199912040302.TAA02320@ivic.ivic.net> From: "Lorene Dinsmore" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Baby Doll Dresses Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 15:23:14 -0800 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Lorene Dinsmore" Ney, I say. Skimmers were longer than baby doll dresses. Skimmers were very light material - sometimes permanent pleated which like - floated around you as you moved, but came closer to the knee than the crotch (some more modest ones wore them to the knee). Baby dolls inspired some to wear them so short that you always saw the ruffles underneath. ;-)). Islyle who was thin enough back them to hem her babydolls. ---------- > From: Panmela@aol.com > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: Baby Doll Dresses > Date: Friday, December 03, 1999 1:33 PM > > > -Poster: Panmela@aol.com > > These dresses were also called "skimmers". Unfortunately, I tossed the pattern I used as a teenager when I moved about a year ago. Didn't think ANYONE would be interested in it. > > Pamela D. > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 3 21:28:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA31071 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 21:28:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA16321; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 20:47:26 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA22127 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 20:47:15 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA22109 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 20:47:08 -0700 (MST) Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 20:47:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 27106 invoked from network); 4 Dec 1999 03:46:50 -0000 Received: from 18.70.3-10.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (HELO JOANJURA) (207.231.70.18) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 4 Dec 1999 03:46:50 -0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19991203194721.3aff4562@mail2.quiknet.com> X-Sender: joanj@mail2.quiknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: Re: H-COST: 'Fashion in Detail new book:' was Slub, dyed fur, differences i... Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Joan M Jurancich At 09:33 AM 12/3/99 EST, Cheryldee@aol.com wrote: > [snip] > >OK. I'm not a weaver although I have dabbled. My recollection is that the >fancy loom you're referring to is the Jaquard loom which was a 16-harness >loom. Before that 2 and 4-harness looms were the standard. This would mean >that each motif would have had to be worked painstakingly by hand. No small >feat, but doable. Cheryl Odom, not an authority by any means Actually, draw-looms capable of weaving all sorts of very complex patterns were developed in China more than two millenia ago. Other looms using sets of pattern headles (also called harnesses) were developed in various places around the world a loooooonnnng time ago. Two- and four-harness looms are perhaps the most common for everyday fabrics, but the highly decorated (and *extremely* expensive) woven fabrics used many more harnesses (i.e., groups of headles controlling particular warp threads to make the patterning easier); weaving satin fabrics (silk or wool) can use 7 harnesses to keep the smooth, glossy threads of the warp showing an almost unbroken surface. Apparently the person who inspired the first message in this thread has *never* studied anything about the history of weaving. Or spinning. Or dyeing. Our ancestors had to be clever to manage; some of our oh-so-smart moderns would have never made it to adulthood, let alone reproduced. Can you guess that fiber and fabric technologies are special interests of mine? Sorry for getting on such a high soapbox, but I am constantly irritated by the attitude that everything was "crude" in the 19th century and earlier. Humph..Our woolen fabrics (not all, but quite a large proportion) would not have been given approval by the medieval guilds of weavers because they are not properly finished. ... I had best get down off this soapbox, the air is getting thin... Back on the ground now. That's better . A wonderful book for learning about the impact of cloth-making in the lives of women in Europe and the Mideast is "Women's Work: the first 20,000 Years" by Elizabeth Wayland Barber, published in 1994 [ISBN 0-393-03506-0 (hardback)]. It's an expanded chapter from her earlier book, "Prehistoric Textiles: the Development of Cloth in the Neolithic and Bronze Ages with Special Reference to the Aegean" (a wonderful scholarly book for fanatics like me ). I'll sign off and go lay down on my ice bag for a while (it's for my lower back, not my head ). >From an easily aroused spinner and weaver in the Central Valley of California, where a cold wind is blowing masses of leaves around, Joan Jurancich Sacramento, CA joanj@quiknet.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 3 22:54:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA31208 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 22:54:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA22168; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 22:13:03 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA03032 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 22:12:36 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail2.LCIA.COM (mail.aerodown.com [209.26.29.8]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA03024 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 22:12:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from woodenporch.com ([209.26.28.85]) by mail2.LCIA.COM (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52462U2500L250S0V35) with ESMTP id COM for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 00:17:41 -0500 Message-ID: <38499F6C.73738DD4@woodenporch.com> Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 00:11:57 +0100 From: Lois X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: books References: <199901111704_MC2-6640-5DD7@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lois I have listed 2 very nice historic costume books on ebay: Concise History of Costume and Fashion http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=212944598 Modes and Manners 16th C by von Boehn http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=213551061 Lois -- Lois Mueller Wooden Porch Books books@woodenporch.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 3 23:09:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA31226 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 23:09:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA23205; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 22:28:39 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA05083 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 22:28:30 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA05078 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 22:28:29 -0700 (MST) From: M311@aol.com Received: from M311@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.4.) id 6.0.3562881c (4334) for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 00:27:54 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.3562881c.257a0059@aol.com> Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 00:27:53 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: Baby Doll Dresses To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 38 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: M311@aol.com In a message dated 12/3/99 1:43:40 PM Central Standard Time, penny.creative.outlets@erols.com writes: << baby dolls dresses that were popular in the last 1960s to early 1970s. >> I never wore the dresses but I had several of the baby doll pj's. I had one in red with little white hearts on it. It had the matching panties. It was one of my favorite as a young teen. I have some of my old patterns that my mom made me as a child. Some of them are "in" again. I have a top that would fit my daughter. I just might make it up for her. Now if I could find some of my favorite materials from back then. One was a blue knit with penguins on it. Kelly m311@aol.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 3 23:44:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA31292 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 23:44:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA25761; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 23:03:56 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA09749 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 23:03:48 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ns1.lightspeed.bc.ca (root@ns1.lightspeed.bc.ca [206.12.82.130]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA09742 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 23:03:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from Porb (vandial37.lightspeed.bc.ca [204.244.233.37]) by ns1.lightspeed.bc.ca (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id VAA22005 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 21:46:12 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19991203220540.007c13a0@antir.com> X-Sender: i.wonder@antir.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 22:05:40 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kris Subject: Re: H-COST: Baby Doll Dresses In-Reply-To: <199912040302.TAA02320@ivic.ivic.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kris At 03:23 PM 03/12/99 -0800, you wrote: > >-Poster: "Lorene Dinsmore" > >Ney, I say. Skimmers were longer than baby doll dresses. Skimmers were >very light material - sometimes permanent pleated which like - floated Permanent pleated material? As in you can wash it and possibly dry it and no ironing and no drycleaning? Is it still around? and what would the content be? Kris _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 3 23:53:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA31301 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 23:53:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA26349; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 23:12:47 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA10716 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 23:12:09 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sd.znet.com (sd.znet.com [207.167.64.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA10709 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 23:12:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.167.66.172] (sdts10-58.znet.net [207.167.66.58]) by sd.znet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/jjb-sd) with ESMTP id WAA12643 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 22:12:01 -0800 (PST) X-Envelope-From: savaskan@sd.znet.com X-Envelope-To: Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <7F402D0574C3D011ACF000A0C92B23D3025E1116@nt13pv.apsc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 22:05:59 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Julie Adams Subject: Re: H-COST: 'Fashion in Detail new book:' was Slub, dyed fur, differences in fabric treatments Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Julie Adams >I have a costume Nazi (I love Margo's snark term-where does it come from?) >who insists that delicately woven, i.e. brocade, or patterned weaving (with >different colors)wasn't possible between 1550-1600 because the 'machines >didn't exist'. Perhaps she suffers from Black and White book photo syndrome :-) I believe there are some descriptions and black and white photos of some very detailed muli-colored brocades in the Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd. There are additional descriptions in text. Also there are some examples in Five Centuries of Italian Textiles, A Selection from the Museo del Tessuto Prato 1300-1800 (No ISBN) organized by Rosalia Bonito Fanelli 1981 One thing to be careful of is popularity and fashion in period, and just because it was possible, doesn't mean a particular pattern or color combination was worn as clothing. By the pictoral evidence I have, I would say that 3 or more colored brocades in Europe became much more popular after 1600, though there seemed to be a brief fad in the late 15th c Italy. Early 16th c German costumes are usually single colored or two colored. When they are two-toned, inevitably one of the colors is black, white/silver, or orange/gold. Their clothing brocade choices seemed to tend toward heraldic color mixtures in taste, yet background furniture textiles are more often multicolored brocades. In the book Textiler Hausrat, Kleidung un Haustextilien in Nurnberg von 1500-1600 by Zander-Seidel, there are chapters devoted to house textiles. These were often woven specifically for various household purposes or decoration and clearly had some popular patterns and weaves. IMHO, we don't wear upholstery fabric now and they didn't then. In general, I admit I tend to steer people away from brocades, mostly because it takes a lot of study, analysis and somewhat of a good eye to pick out a "period" brocade. Some of the ones I've seen people pick just come out badly. When I was costume director of a Landsknecht re-enacting group, I always pleaded with people to get swatches before purchasing that showed the whole pattern. I hate to see people spend time and effort into something that is just not right. The funny thing is that some very interesting patterns can be found in period brocades. Some are very modern geometric looking. Julie Adams _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Dec 4 00:01:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA31333 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 00:01:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA26799; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 23:20:17 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA11515 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 23:19:56 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.62]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA11508 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 23:19:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from 207-172-62-148.s148.tnt2.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com ([207.172.62.148] helo=e4c2n6) by smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #3) id 11u8XT-0003rz-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 01:19:24 -0500 Message-ID: <00bd01bf3e1f$6938c660$943eaccf@e4c2n6> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <199912040302.TAA02320@ivic.ivic.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: Baby Doll Dresses Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 01:18:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" That's correct, the purpose of baby doll dresses was to wear them as short as possible to show the matching bloomers or underpants. My dress's hemline met the bottom of the bloomers. This was a fashion for teenagers. In the pattern front that I referred to, the girl on the right is showing her dress very short and the bloomers showing. The idea of this teenage fashion was stemmed off of little baby girls who wore these types of outfits in the early 60s through early 80s. The bloomers or underpants were made to match, so that crawling babies' panties matched their dress. I had some of these baby doll dresses for Katie in the early ninties. Later... Penny > -Poster: "Lorene Dinsmore" > > Ney, I say. Skimmers were longer than baby doll dresses. Skimmers were > very light material - sometimes permanent pleated which like - floated > around you as you moved, but came closer to the knee than the crotch (some > more modest ones wore them to the knee). Baby dolls inspired some to wear > them so short that you always saw the ruffles underneath. ;-)). _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Dec 4 00:24:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA31356 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 00:24:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA27898; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 23:43:06 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA13962 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 23:43:00 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from pop1.cyberhighway.net (pop1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.35]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA13955 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 23:42:58 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199912040642.XAA13955@net.indra.com> Received: (qmail 29902 invoked from network); 3 Dec 1999 23:42:53 -0700 Received: from ts26-06.boi.cyberhighway.net (HELO kathy) (209.161.8.120) by pop1.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 3 Dec 1999 23:42:53 -0700 From: "K & J Hopkins" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: "snark" Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 23:53:08 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "K & J Hopkins" HERE! HERE! AND VIVOT! If we were voting on such a thing, this gets mine. Good going Drea. Kathlene ---------- > From: aleed > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: "snark" > Date: Friday, December 03, 1999 12:04 PM > > > -Poster: aleed > > > Snotty, Nasty And Righteous Know-it-all _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Dec 4 00:40:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA31376 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 00:40:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA28482; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 23:59:14 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA15599 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 23:58:55 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA15589 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 23:58:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA20470 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 22:58:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-58-61.lightspeed.net [209.165.58.61]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA17964 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 1999 22:58:50 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <001b01bf3e27$5e49ba40$b67dfea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: References: <006101bf3dd9$f3edaaa0$6516fea9@gunsafes> <38483C72.8BC86598@serv.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: "snark" Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 23:15:36 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" > > -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > > > How about 'snarc' > > Sorry Novice Attempt for Required Costume > > Except that it implies that it is the fault of the person being > criticized. :} > Cynthia Yeah, you are right. I realized it was backwards after I sent it...oh well. Michelle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Dec 4 03:04:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA04364 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 03:04:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA05912; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 02:23:56 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA28708 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 02:23:34 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com (imo16.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA28701 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 02:23:31 -0700 (MST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.4.) id 6.0.cfaef2b9 (3988) for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 04:22:55 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.cfaef2b9.257a376f@aol.com> Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 04:22:55 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: "snark" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 45 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AnnBWass@aol.com Someone wondered about the origin of the word "snark." Lewis Carroll wrote a poem called "The Hunting of the Snark." I assume he made it up, as he did so many other names. Ann Wass _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Dec 4 09:55:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA04855 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 09:55:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA22115; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 09:14:37 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA10483 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 09:14:08 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail12.svr.pol.co.uk (mail12.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.215]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA10465 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 09:14:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from modem1.barney.pol.co.uk ([195.92.7.1] helo=herimats) by mail12.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.11 #0) id 11uHoy-0002Au-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 04 Dec 1999 16:14:04 +0000 Message-ID: <004701bf3e72$ac9960b0$01075cc3@herimats> From: "LDMundy" To: References: Subject: Re: H-COST: The Hunting of the Snark Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 16:13:36 -0000 Organization: Heritage Matters at Wysewords MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "LDMundy" Drea How absolutely wonderful. excellent; marvellous; Even as I type my friend is trying to fit it to music. Could this be the anthem that will be sung at costume and re-enactor events around the world.? Could it be more popular than Synchronised Columbo. To whom should royalties be sent? The next quiet Friday you get finish the whole thing and let us know when it hits Broadway; Perhaps Sir Cliff will be interested- he is not having a very good time at the moment - bit of flack for ressurecting an Oldie for his Christmas single and not selling out for his millennium concerts. Keep up the good work. Dave> _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Dec 4 09:59:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA04866 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 09:59:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA22481; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 09:18:52 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA11009 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 09:18:49 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d10.mx (imo-d10.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.42]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA11002 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 09:18:47 -0700 (MST) From: Panmela@aol.com Received: from Panmela@aol.com by imo-d10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.4.) id 6.0.4c6ddfe8 (4534) for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 11:18:09 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.4c6ddfe8.257a98c1@aol.com> Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 11:18:09 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: Baby Doll Dresses To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 49 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Panmela@aol.com In a message dated 99-12-03 22:31:16 EST, you write: > Skimmers were longer than baby doll dresses. Skimmers were > very light material - sometimes permanent pleated which like - floated > around you as you moved, but came closer to the knee than the crotch (some > more modest ones wore them to the knee). Baby dolls inspired some to wear > them so short that you always saw the ruffles underneath. ;-)). > Well, I found the ANCIENT photo of me in my skimmer and it BARELY covered my rearend - the same length you describe for the baby doll. It had bottoms - somewhat skimpy ones but they were there - to go with it. I don't remember anyone wearing something close to the knee and calling it a skimmer. But then at the advanced age of 43 my brain may have turned to mush ;-). Pamela D. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Dec 4 10:26:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA04905 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 10:26:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA24183; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 09:43:56 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA14204 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 09:43:50 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from viper.columbus.rr.com (viper.columbus.rr.com [204.210.252.254]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA14182 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 09:43:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from dsc.columbus.rr.com (dhcp26129131.columbus.rr.com [24.26.129.131]) by viper.columbus.rr.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA07926 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 11:43:31 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002301bf3e77$1f98c840$83811a18@dsc.columbus.rr.com> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: 'Fashion in Detail new book:' was Slub, dyed fur,differences in fabric treatments Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 11:46:33 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Greetings! >>I have a costume Nazi (I love Margo's snark term-where does it come from?) I was one of the folks who popularized its usage in the SCA, in the term "garb snark" as a substitution for a term using the "N"-word, some years ago. I don't know that I actually invented the term, but for me was a back formation of the term "snarky", as in "snarky remarks". The fact that the description of the snark in "The Hunting of the Snark" kinda fits was one of those serendipidous sorts of things..... I continue to promote the term, because I don't like the term "Nazi" used so lightly, and "authenticity police" makes it seem as if those interested in authenticity are by definition "enforcers." Nicolaa _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Dec 4 10:47:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA04920 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 10:47:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA26687; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 10:05:16 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA16987 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 10:05:09 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from Herb-Lore.com (mail.herb-lore.com [209.141.89.62]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA16981 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 10:05:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from Flohrschutz [207.204.223.213] by Herb-Lore.com (SMTPD32-5.05) id A7BB37030124; Sat, 04 Dec 1999 10:04:43 -0700 Message-ID: <000e01bf3e82$124efbe0$d5dfcccf@Flohrschutz> From: "Heather" To: References: <004701bf3e72$ac9960b0$01075cc3@herimats> Subject: Re: H-COST: The Hunting of the Snark Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 10:04:54 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Heather" > The next quiet Friday you get finish the whole thing and let us know when it > hits Broadway; Perhaps Sir Cliff will be interested- he is not having a very If it goes to Broadway, who's going to do the costumes? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Dec 4 11:37:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA05008 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 11:37:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02401; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 10:56:14 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA23039 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 10:54:10 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sm0101.promedia.net (IDENT:root@sm0101.promedia.net [209.160.170.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23033 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 10:54:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from j9g8x8 (ppp-209-160-172-109.01.promedia.net [209.160.172.109]) by sm0101.promedia.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA05826 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 09:54:02 -0800 Message-ID: <001a01bf3e81$416059c0$6daca0d1@j9g8x8> From: "Broneske" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: The Hunting of the Snark Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 09:59:02 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Broneske" Here! Here! Pray, do continue it!!! | | | Joan Broneske \|/ unicorn@softcom.net /|\ //|\\ -----Original Message----- From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Friday, December 03, 1999 2:26 PM Subject: H-COST: The Hunting of the Snark > >-Poster: aleed > >With heartfelt apologies to Lewis Carroll. (and any English Lit majors >out there..) > >The Hunting of the Snark >or >An Agonizing 8 Fittings > >"Just the place for a Snark!" The seamstress cried, >Arranging her skirts with care; >Wearing machine-stitched clothing with pride, >Her finger aloft in the air. > >"Just the place for a Snark! I have said it twice: >That alone should bring one round. >Just the place for a Snark! I have said it thrice: >By god, I'll stand my ground. > >"Come listen, my ladies; I'll tell you again >the five unmistakeable marks >by which you may know, wherever you go, >the warrented, genuine Snarks. > >"Let us take them in order. The first is their taste, >An excess of which makes them quite rude; >Unless it's handwoven, hand-spun and hand-sewn, >You're better off totally nude. > >"You may seek them with thimbles--but seek them with care! >You may lure them with velvet as well, >You may ask them for documentation for their >Inexpressibly period smell." > >Yes, I'll stop now...You know it's a slow friday at work when... > >Drea > > >On Fri, 3 Dec 1999, heather wrote: > >> >> -Poster: "heather " >> >> >Snotty, Nasty And Righteous Know-it-all >> >> This one gets my vote for favorite!! >> >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com >> with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME >> > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Dec 4 12:14:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05076 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 12:14:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06522; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 11:33:56 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA00182 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 11:32:16 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA00165 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 11:32:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA24970 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 19:32:13 +0100 (MET) Received: from henk (vp214-24.worldonline.nl [195.241.214.24]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA28717 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 19:32:12 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <008701bf3e85$a8cf65c0$18d6f1c3@henk> From: "Henk 't Jong - tScapreel" To: References: <199912031232.AA783679794@Herb-Lore.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: "snark" Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 19:20:36 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Henk 't Jong - tScapreel" Hi > >Snotty, Nasty And Righteous Know-it-all > > This one gets my vote for favorite!! Mine too... Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Dec 4 12:14:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05080 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 12:14:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06525; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 11:33:56 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA00175 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 11:32:15 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA00163 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 11:32:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA24951 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 19:32:12 +0100 (MET) Received: from henk (vp214-24.worldonline.nl [195.241.214.24]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA28696 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 19:32:05 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <008601bf3e85$a7d3a0a0$18d6f1c3@henk> From: "Henk 't Jong - tScapreel" To: References: <1D0F5BB98E98D311B17E0008C75D0B3A03EC1F@HHSMAIL> Subject: Re: H-COST: 'Fashion in Detail new book:' Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 19:19:48 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Henk 't Jong - tScapreel" Hi, > She just looked him in the eye, and told him, "Your right sir. > They screwed Jesus to the cross!" It still makes me laugh to thing about > it. ROTFL again! Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Dec 4 12:15:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05084 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 12:15:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06532; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 11:33:59 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA00199 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 11:32:21 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA00177 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 11:32:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA24977 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 19:32:15 +0100 (MET) Received: from henk (vp214-24.worldonline.nl [195.241.214.24]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA28725 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 19:32:13 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <008801bf3e85$a96675a0$18d6f1c3@henk> From: "Henk 't Jong - tScapreel" To: References: Subject: Re: H-COST: The Hunting of the Snark Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 19:25:30 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Henk 't Jong - tScapreel" Hi, Drea wrote: > With heartfelt apologies to Lewis Carroll. (and any English Lit majors > out there..) > > The Hunting of the Snark > or > An Agonizing 8 Fittings > > "Just the place for a Snark!" The seamstress cried, > Arranging her skirts with care; > Wearing machine-stitched clothing with pride, > Her finger aloft in the air. > > "Just the place for a Snark! I have said it twice: > That alone should bring one round. > Just the place for a Snark! I have said it thrice: > By god, I'll stand my ground. > > "Come listen, my ladies; I'll tell you again > the five unmistakeable marks > by which you may know, wherever you go, > the warrented, genuine Snarks. > > "Let us take them in order. The first is their taste, > An excess of which makes them quite rude; > Unless it's handwoven, hand-spun and hand-sewn, > You're better off totally nude. > > "You may seek them with thimbles--but seek them with care! > You may lure them with velvet as well, > You may ask them for documentation for their > Inexpressibly period smell." > > Yes, I'll stop now...You know it's a slow friday at work when... > > Drea > > ROTFL again!! This is getting outa hand! I feel my sides splitting... help! Henk PS Tomorrow is St Nicholas overhere and a tradition with the Dutch is: sticking poems (well, rhymes actually...) with the presents. They have to be humorous and must say something about some defects or quirks of the receiver. Is Drea Dutch, you think? She'll fit the bill! Easily! Henk > On Fri, 3 Dec 1999, heather wrote: > > > > > -Poster: "heather " > > > > >Snotty, Nasty And Righteous Know-it-all > > > > This one gets my vote for favorite!! > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Dec 4 12:15:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05088 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 12:15:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06565; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 11:34:06 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA00230 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 11:32:36 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo25.mx.aol.com (imo25.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.69]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA00225 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 11:32:35 -0700 (MST) From: MissMela@aol.com Received: from MissMela@aol.com by imo25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.4.) id 6.0.4a204a4 (4401) for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 13:32:20 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.4a204a4.257ab833@aol.com> Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 13:32:19 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: Snaps To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 45 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MissMela@aol.com I have an original 1909 ad in my bathroom which advertises "press fasteners" for sale and they are what we call snaps today. Hope this helps a little. Mela _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Dec 4 12:36:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05105 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 12:36:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA08494; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 11:55:22 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA03701 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 11:53:47 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA03694 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 11:53:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from test (ip219.toronto25.dialup.canada.psi.net [154.11.82.219]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA14725 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 13:53:43 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19991204134823.00994210@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sat, 04 Dec 1999 13:48:23 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: "snark" In-Reply-To: References: <38480A62.9806B44D@home.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Danielle Nunn At 02:04 03/12/99 -0500, you wrote: > >-Poster: aleed > > >Snotty, Nasty And Righteous Know-it-all My vote is with this one! Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Dec 4 12:36:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05110 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 12:36:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA08598; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 11:55:57 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA03806 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 11:54:22 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sd.znet.com (sd.znet.com [207.167.64.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA03799 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 11:54:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.167.66.91] (sdts10-91.znet.net [207.167.66.91]) by sd.znet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/jjb-sd) with ESMTP id KAA19040 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 10:54:18 -0800 (PST) X-Envelope-From: savaskan@sd.znet.com X-Envelope-To: Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <002301bf3e77$1f98c840$83811a18@dsc.columbus.rr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 10:40:23 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Julie Adams Subject: H-COST: Authenticity "Enforcers" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Julie Adams > and "authenticity police" makes it seem as if those interested in >authenticity are by definition "enforcers." > >Nicolaa So true and often such an incorrect assumption. If someone asks why I did something such and such a way or if such and such was period, I'll provide my opinion, though usually couched with "this is the information I have at this time" or "based on the documentation I've seen so far". I can't imagine walking up to someone and critiquing their attire or other art endeavor in most forums, especialy the SCA. It would just be rude. There are other re-enacting groups that have designated costume directors that are concerned with such, but the people belonging to those groups have already bought in to the level of authenticity that is required or they wouldn't be there. I've been in that position and did not find it a particularly fun job. The person in that position needs to have "teeth" and so often the promised support from others in the group flitters away when the "standards" really need enforcing. Especially if its a big shot's girlfriend or a good party buddy. My biggest irritation is when "not so knowledgable" members of the re-enacting group decide to become "enforcers", but are actually just garb snarks. Inevitably they are less than tactful and often seem to take some joy in causing other people grief. And usually they really don't know what they are talking about and end up spreading costume myths that are often hard to get rid of. On the other hand, I've heard requests from some of the journeyman and senior level artists in our SCA area to have a forum to be able to ask for a private and true critique of the Laurel "experts". I would still do my best to be very cautious and tactful in that kind of situation. And gosh knows that I don't worry about authenticity 100% of the time. Just try being 100% authentic with a toddler.... Julie Adams _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Dec 4 12:36:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05114 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 12:36:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA08595; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 11:55:56 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA03693 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 11:53:45 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA03684 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 11:53:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from test (ip219.toronto25.dialup.canada.psi.net [154.11.82.219]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA14722 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 13:53:41 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19991204135408.00994210@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sat, 04 Dec 1999 13:54:08 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: 'Fashion in Detail new book' & SNARKS In-Reply-To: <7F402D0574C3D011ACF000A0C92B23D3025E1116@nt13pv.apsc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >This is an incredible book, I woke up early to read more. Another >question: I have a costume Nazi (I love Margo's snark term-where does it >come from?) who insists that delicately woven, i.e. brocade, or >patterned weaving (with different colors)wasn't possible between 1550->1600 because the 'machines didn't exist'. You could always tell them to check out the book: "Prehistoric Textiles" by E.J.W. Barber. ISBN 0-691-03597-0\ This is a fabulous book! I saw Dr. Barber lecture on "The Mummies of Urumachi" (sorry I can't spell the wretched name ) and she is incredibly knowledgable! On page 10 of "Prehistoric Textiles" she mentions that some textile bits found from 3000 B.C. included brocading! Isn't that just totally WOW! Anyway, now you can tell the SNARK to stick that in her pipe and smoke it. ;) Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Dec 4 13:32:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA05163 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 13:32:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA14527; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 12:51:23 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA11369 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 12:49:22 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA11364 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 12:49:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r9p12.directcon.net [206.170.184.111]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA09980 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 11:47:15 -0800 Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 11:47:15 -0800 Message-Id: <199912041947.LAA09980@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Baby Doll Dresses Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson >> >Well, I found the ANCIENT photo of me in my skimmer and it BARELY covered my >rearend - the same length you describe for the baby doll. It had bottoms - >somewhat skimpy ones but they were there - to go with it. We called those "sizzlers". Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Dec 4 14:08:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA05190 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 14:08:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17202; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 13:27:13 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA16109 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 13:25:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16101 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 13:25:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA09648 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 15:25:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA04136 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 15:26:03 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 15:26:03 -0500 (EST) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: The Hunting of the Snark In-Reply-To: <008801bf3e85$a96675a0$18d6f1c3@henk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: aleed Wow, I didn't know the extent of people's enthusiasm for this one! It's quite flattering. :) If anyone puts it to music or wants to continue it, I'd love to see/hear it. I just picked a few verses at random. Thanks, Drea Terrorizor of Snarks (and Boojums) Everywhere > PS Tomorrow is St Nicholas overhere and a tradition with the Dutch is: > sticking poems (well, rhymes actually...) with the presents. They have to be > humorous and must say something about some defects or quirks of the > receiver. Is Drea Dutch, you think? She'll fit the bill! Easily! > > Henk > > On Fri, 3 Dec 1999, heather wrote: > > > > > > > > -Poster: "heather " > > > > > > >Snotty, Nasty And Righteous Know-it-all > > > > > > This one gets my vote for favorite!! > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Dec 4 16:40:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA05362 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 16:40:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA29366; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 15:59:07 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA07582 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 15:58:16 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA07566 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 15:58:10 -0700 (MST) Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 15:58:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 23023 invoked from network); 4 Dec 1999 22:58:06 -0000 Received: from 175.240.3-3.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (HELO JOANJURA) (207.183.240.175) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 4 Dec 1999 22:58:06 -0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19991204145823.4157b7ea@mail2.quiknet.com> X-Sender: joanj@mail2.quiknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: H-COST: Q E's Wardrobe Unlock'd Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Joan M Jurancich Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd *is* available through Amazon.co.uk!! My copy is in the mail... I ordered it on 30 Oct and it was shipped on 26 Nov (the day my credit card was charged) via Royal Mail. Price, with air mail shipping from the UK, was GBP79.95, which translated to US$129.81, a bargain in my book. Now all I need to do is wait until it arrives... Joan Jurancich Sacramento, CA joanj@quiknet.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Dec 4 18:21:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA05513 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 18:21:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA11773; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 17:39:49 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA25945 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 17:39:27 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail6.svr.pol.co.uk (mail6.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.212]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA25940 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 17:39:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from modem77.fred.pol.co.uk ([195.92.7.205] helo=herimats) by mail6.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.11 #0) id 11uPhz-0005ZG-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 05 Dec 1999 00:39:23 +0000 Message-ID: <003501bf3eb9$4425c0e0$cd075cc3@herimats> From: "LDMundy" To: References: <19991202191050.MPXL20526.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> Subject: Re: H-COST: WTO - very OT Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 00:40:00 -0000 Organization: Heritage Matters at Wysewords MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0032_01BF3EB9.4352E080" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "LDMundy" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01BF3EB9.4352E080 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable WTO - very OTRobb;=20 Without differing with you in any respect; I would just say that you are = lucky it gets into the media. Here in the UK such things tend not get reported and if they are, are = down played. During Kosovo daily demonstrations in our major cities were = just not covered in our own media. I do a little part time photowork for a collective that specialises in = pics of such for the dailies- a very mean time was had by all - the = whole market just suddenly dried up overnight, leaving us with reams of = unsaleable pictures. Take care. Dave ----- Original Message -----=20 From: R.L. Shep=20 To: h-costume=20 Sent: Thursday, December 02, 1999 7:15 PM Subject: H-COST: WTO - very OT If you are not interested - delete this - but I think it is important = for everyone to know what is happening in Seattle.=20 I have *forced myself* to stay away from any area that could be a = trouble spot. But I cannot get anything done. I just stay glued to the TV. There are pro-police TV stations and pro-people stations. I watch all of it. The police are PIGS. It is bad enough that they will not allow people = to protest... but they make rules and then break their own rules. They = set up a *no protest* area and then hassle, beat, gas and arrest people = OUTSIDE of that area. I know any numbr of people who were gassed trying to get = home from work. AND the things that they have been doing on Capital Hill at night are = beyond belief. I really would like to know why they make it a point of beating women = and obviously gay men on Capital Hill. People who are doing nothing but = walking from one place to another. This is not a *no protest zone* this is basically a residential - known gay - area. I am FURIOUS. It is best that I stay far away from it all. The ACLU is filing a suit against the city - GOOD.=20 I will be glad when this is all over. But it won't really be over = because the mayor and the police have a lot to answer for and I am sure that = people here will not let them forget it. ~!~ R.L.Shep http://www.rlshep.com ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01BF3EB9.4352E080 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable WTO - very OT
Robb;
Without differing with you in any = respect; I would=20 just say that you are lucky it gets into the media.
Here in the UK such things tend not get = reported=20 and if they are, are down played. During Kosovo daily demonstrations in = our=20 major cities were just not covered in our own media.
I do a little part time photowork = for  a=20 collective that specialises in pics of such for the dailies- a very mean = time=20 was had by all - the whole market just suddenly dried up overnight, = leaving us=20 with reams of unsaleable pictures.
Take care.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 R.L. = Shep
Sent: Thursday, December 02, = 1999 7:15=20 PM
Subject: H-COST: WTO - very = OT

If you are not interested - delete = this - but=20 I think it is important for everyone to know what is happening in = Seattle.=20

I have *forced myself* to stay away from any area that = could be=20 a trouble
spot.
But I cannot get anything done. I just stay = glued to the=20 TV. There are
pro-police TV stations and pro-people stations. I = watch all=20 of it.
The police are PIGS. It is bad enough that they will not = allow=20 people to
protest... but they make rules and then break their own = rules.=20 They set up
a *no protest* area and then hassle, beat, gas and = arrest=20 people OUTSIDE of
that area. I know any numbr of people who were = gassed=20 trying to get home from work.
AND the things that they have been = doing on=20 Capital Hill at night are beyond
belief.
I really would like to = know why=20 they make it a point of beating women and
obviously gay men on = Capital=20 Hill. People who are doing nothing but walking
from one place to = another.=20 This is not a *no protest zone* this is
basically a residential - = known gay=20 - area.
I am FURIOUS. It is best that I stay far away from it = all.
The=20 ACLU is filing a suit against the city - GOOD.
I will be glad when = this is=20 all over. But it won't really be over because
the mayor and the = police have=20 a lot to answer for and I am sure that people
here will not let = them forget=20 it.

~!~ R.L.Shep
http://www.rlshep.com

 ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01BF3EB9.4352E080-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Dec 4 21:29:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA05703 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 21:29:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA26707; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 20:47:41 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA18280 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 20:47:02 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.60]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA18255 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 20:46:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from 216-164-48-126.c3-0.gth-ubr1.lnh-gth.md.cable.rcn.com ([216.164.48.126] helo=pavilion) by smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #3) id 11uScy-0002Io-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 22:46:24 -0500 Message-ID: <015401bf3ed3$a98a54e0$0200a8c0@pavilion> From: "Megan McHugh" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Off topic - sewing machine advice requested. Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 22:48:55 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Megan McHugh" After reading this list the past year or so, I am finally ready to fix up my sewing space. I have a dress form on order, the parts to make a large ironing table, and find to my horror that there are loud grinding noises coming from my sewing machine. I figure I sew enough to upgrade to a fairly decent one (better than the $150 Sears Kenmore I've been abusing for the past 15 years), but would like some advice. I understand Bernina's are good (G-Street uses them in their classes), but what about the other brands? Who makes the Sears ones these days? What about Brother, Singer, Husqvarna (sp?), Pfaff? I need to keep this in the triple digit price range. If you want to keep this off the list you can email me privately. Thank you. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Dec 4 22:48:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA05746 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 22:48:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA02429; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 22:07:36 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA27539 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 22:07:04 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA27532 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 22:07:02 -0700 (MST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.4.) id 6.0.35672bc8 (4360) for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 00:06:26 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.35672bc8.257b4cd1@aol.com> Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 00:06:25 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: Off topic - sewing machine advice requested. To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 45 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AnnBWass@aol.com My next sewing machine will be a Pfaff. I think all of the European machines are of good quality, but I have had a Pfaff serger since 1992 and love it. The only problem I have ever had with it is that the timing finally had to be readjusted this year. The model I want (the number escapes me) was on sale for $899 last summer, so is within the 3-digit price range if you can find it on sale. (My regular sewing machines are a 20 year old Singer and a 26 year old Kenmore. They are okay, but how I long to get an exciting new machine!) Ann Wass _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Dec 4 22:53:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA05761 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 22:53:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA02810; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 22:12:55 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA28214 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 22:12:49 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA28208 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 22:12:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991205051246.GSBN7535.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 21:12:46 -0800 Message-ID: <3849F44D.E14FE431@home.com> Date: Sat, 04 Dec 1999 23:12:46 -0600 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Off topic - sewing machine advice requested. References: <015401bf3ed3$a98a54e0$0200a8c0@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kat & Kent I have a White Jeans machine... it sews leather, has a triple lock stitch, a free arm and I've done four plays & a Ren Faire with it as well as mundane sewing with no problems. I paid $280 which included three years of free maintenance. Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Dec 4 22:56:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA05766 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 22:56:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA03012; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 22:16:06 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA28625 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 22:16:01 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA28619 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 22:15:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991205051558.GSXB7535.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 21:15:58 -0800 Message-ID: <3849F50E.B813A45C@home.com> Date: Sat, 04 Dec 1999 23:15:58 -0600 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Authenticity "Enforcers" References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kat & Kent At my second event I think it was, I was wearing a cream flannel dress that had a wide (about a foot) stripe of rust colored fabric sewn about four inches from the bottom with another strip of cream sewn to it to make it floor length. I had someone come up to me and tell me that they did NOT "do that" in the middle ages. I looked at her and said something along the lines of, "I did it this way because I didn't have enough fabric to make a full length dress from just the cream... somehow I seriously doubt that my ancestors were *dumber* than I am... I'm sure they were quite capable of coming up with the same solution." Just the fact that I didn't take the... let's be polite... stern criticism... seemed to startle her. Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Dec 4 23:10:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA05779 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 23:10:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA03645; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 22:29:37 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA00126 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 22:29:23 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.60]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA00120 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 22:29:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from 207-172-61-54.s54.tnt1.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com ([207.172.61.54] helo=e4c2n6) by smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #3) id 11uUE6-0001QX-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 00:28:51 -0500 Message-ID: <000001bf3ee1$8408dbc0$363daccf@e4c2n6> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Subject: H-COST: Reenactment Episode Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 00:27:25 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" Did anyone catch the Thanksgiving week episode of Southpark? It was the funniest yet. They did a reenactment of the Civil War. Cartman was Robert E. Lee. We were ROTFL. Later... Penny http://www.costumegallery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Dec 4 23:20:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA05792 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 23:20:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA04142; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 22:38:56 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA01040 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 22:38:40 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from eclipse.pacifier.com (eclipse.pacifier.com [199.2.117.78]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA01034 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 22:38:37 -0700 (MST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: from grendal2 (ip28.van24.pacifier.com [216.65.139.28]) by eclipse.pacifier.com (8.9.3/8.9.3pop) with SMTP id VAA01568 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 21:38:31 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199912050538.VAA01568@eclipse.pacifier.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 21:42:07 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: Off topic - sewing machine advice requested. Priority: normal In-reply-to: <0.35672bc8.257b4cd1@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > My next sewing machine will be a Pfaff. I think all of the European machines > are of good quality, but I have had a Pfaff serger since 1992 and love it. > The only problem I have ever had with it is that the timing finally had to be > readjusted this year. The model I want (the number escapes me) was on sale > for $899 last summer, so is within the 3-digit price range if you can find it > on sale. (My regular sewing machines are a 20 year old Singer and a 26 year > old Kenmore. They are okay, but how I long to get an exciting new machine!) I'd agree with this. I have 2 sergers and 2 sewing machines (all Pfaffs). After working with them and several other machines over the years both at home and with others, I don't think I'd want any other kind. Of course, that doesn't stop me from wanting a machine which only does embroidery. Sigh. ;) Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Dec 4 23:34:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA05840 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 23:34:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA05202; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 22:53:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA02565 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 22:52:59 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.wa.home.com [24.0.2.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA02557 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 22:52:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from [24.9.58.36] by mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991205055256.SVEP20526.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 21:52:56 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.0c (197) Date: Sat, 04 Dec 1999 21:57:33 -0800 Subject: Re: H-COST: WTO - very OT From: "R.L. Shep" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="MS_Mac_OE_3027189454_67931_MIME_Part" Message-Id: <19991205055256.SVEP20526.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "R.L. Shep" > THIS MESSAGE IS IN MIME FORMAT. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_3027189454_67931_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I read the *Electronic Telegraph* everyday. Interesting. They reported Seattle a bit, not much. They also reported the demonstration outside Euston Station on the Monday of last week. Sometime I learn more about what is going on the the US from them than I do from our papers and webpapers. During this whole thing with the WTO I was most interested to see what made the *national media* here. Some of it got through. We had 24 hour coverage on one local TV station and pretty good coverage on other ones here. What you have to keep in mind that you are closer to New York and we are!! The US is a BIG country. And like it or not, if it does not make the news in New York then it is not news! Robb ~!~ R.L.Shep http://www.rlshep.com ---------- From: "LDMundy" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: WTO - very OT Date: Sat, Dec 4, 1999, 4:40 PM Robb; Without differing with you in any respect; I would just say that you are lucky it gets into the media. Here in the UK such things tend not get reported and if they are, are down played. During Kosovo daily demonstrations in our major cities were just not covered in our own media. I do a little part time photowork for a collective that specialises in pics of such for the dailies- a very mean time was had by all - the whole market just suddenly dried up overnight, leaving us with reams of unsaleable pictures. Take care. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: R.L. Shep To: h-costume Sent: Thursday, December 02, 1999 7:15 PM Subject: H-COST: WTO - very OT If you are not interested - delete this - but I think it is important for everyone to know what is happening in Seattle. I have *forced myself* to stay away from any area that could be a trouble spot. But I cannot get anything done. I just stay glued to the TV. There are pro-police TV stations and pro-people stations. I watch all of it. The police are PIGS. It is bad enough that they will not allow people to protest... but they make rules and then break their own rules. They set up a *no protest* area and then hassle, beat, gas and arrest people OUTSIDE of that area. I know any numbr of people who were gassed trying to get home from work. AND the things that they have been doing on Capital Hill at night are beyond belief. I really would like to know why they make it a point of beating women and obviously gay men on Capital Hill. People who are doing nothing but walking from one place to another. This is not a *no protest zone* this is basically a residential - known gay - area. I am FURIOUS. It is best that I stay far away from it all. The ACLU is filing a suit against the city - GOOD. I will be glad when this is all over. But it won't really be over because the mayor and the police have a lot to answer for and I am sure that people here will not let them forget it. ~!~ R.L.Shep http://www.rlshep.com --MS_Mac_OE_3027189454_67931_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Re: H-COST: WTO - very OT I read the *Electronic Telegraph* everyday. Interesting.= They reported Seattle a bit, not much. They also reported the demonstrati= on outside Euston Station on the Monday of last week.
Sometime I learn more about what is going on the the US from them than I do= from our papers and webpapers.
During this whole thing with the WTO I was most interested to see what made= the *national media* here. Some of it got through.
We had 24 hour coverage on one local TV station and pretty good coverage on= other ones here.
What you have to keep in mind that you are closer to New York and we are!! = The US is a BIG country. And like it or not, if it does not make the news = in New York then it is not news!
Robb
~!~ R.L.Shep
http://www.rlshep.com

----------
From: "LDMundy" <dave@wysewords.softnet.co.uk>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: H-COST: WTO - very OT
Date: Sat, Dec 4, 1999, 4:40 PM


Robb;
Without differing with you in any respect; I wou= ld just say that you are lucky it gets into the media.=
Here in the UK such things tend not get reported= and if they are, are down played. During Kosovo daily demonstrations in our= major cities were just not covered in our own media.<= TT>
I do a little part time photowork for a collect= ive that specialises in pics of such for the dailies- a very mean time was h= ad by all - the whole market just suddenly dried up overnight, leaving us wi= th reams of unsaleable pictures.
Take care.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: R.L. Shep <mailto:rlshep= @home.com>
To: h-costume <mailto:h-costume@= indra.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 02, 1999 7= :15 PM
Subject: H-COST: WTO - very OT

If you are not interested - delete this - but I think it is important for= everyone to know what is happening in Seattle.
I have *forced myself* to stay away from any area that could be a trouble=
spot.
But I cannot get anything done. I just stay glued to the TV. There are pro-police TV stations and pro-people stations. I watch all of it.
The police are PIGS. It is bad enough that they will not allow people to<= BR> protest... but they make rules and then break their own rules. They set u= p
a *no protest* area and then hassle, beat, gas and arrest people OUTSIDE = of
that area. I know any numbr of people who were gassed trying to get home = from work.
AND the things that they have been doing on Capital Hill at night are bey= ond
belief.
I really would like to know why they make it a point of beating women and=
obviously gay men on Capital Hill. People who are doing nothing but walki= ng
from one place to another. This is not a *no protest zone* this is
basically a residential - known gay - area.
I am FURIOUS. It is best that I stay far away from it all.
The ACLU is filing a suit against the city - GOOD.
I will be glad when this is all over. But it won't really be over because=
the mayor and the police have a lot to answer for and I am sure that peop= le
here will not let them forget it.
~!~ R.L.Shep
http://www.rlshep.com

 --MS_Mac_OE_3027189454_67931_MIME_Part-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Dec 4 23:42:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA05846 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 23:42:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA05856; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 23:01:04 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA03430 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 23:00:56 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from day1.imsday.com (root@[205.219.2.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA03425 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 23:00:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from imsday.com (d2052192202.imsday.com [205.219.2.202]) by day1.imsday.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA15484 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 00:00:50 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <384CA26F.2D29B2E0@imsday.com> Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 00:00:17 -0600 From: Winifred Smith Organization: Windy's Pockets X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Baby Doll Dresses References: <199912041947.LAA09980@apollo.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Winifred Smith I think this group of post is a prime example of something that I keep pointing out. If we can get this many names and description of some that was made just 20 or 30 years ago and the ones of us who wore it are still alive, just think of the differences that must have existed 200 or 300 years ago. I think this is why historical clothing is so hard to research and causes so much confusion, and why it is so interesting. Windy aka Momma M'Crack Liberty, Texas Margo Anderson wrote: > -Poster: Margo Anderson > > >> > >Well, I found the ANCIENT photo of me in my skimmer and it BARELY covered my > >rearend - the same length you describe for the baby doll. It had bottoms - > >somewhat skimpy ones but they were there - to go with it. > > We called those "sizzlers". > > Margo > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Dec 4 23:42:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA05850 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 23:42:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA05934; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 23:01:34 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA03527 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 23:01:31 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.wa.home.com [24.0.2.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA03522 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 23:01:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from [24.9.58.36] by mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991205060129.SWXL20526.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 22:01:29 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.0c (197) Date: Sat, 04 Dec 1999 22:06:16 -0800 Subject: H-COST: Sorry From: "R.L. Shep" To: "h-costume" Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19991205060129.SWXL20526.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "R.L. Shep" I am sorry about that last message.... I thought I was responding to an *off list* message. ~!~ R.L.Shep http://www.rlshep.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Dec 4 23:44:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA05854 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 23:44:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA06038; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 23:03:03 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA03721 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 23:03:00 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from chmls06.mediaone.net (chmls06.mediaone.net [24.128.1.71]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA03709 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 23:02:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from mediaone.net (h00105af53be2.ne.mediaone.net [24.218.162.250]) by chmls06.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA29556 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 01:02:52 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <384A0020.9112EA22@mediaone.net> Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 01:03:12 -0500 From: Janice Dallas X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en]C-MOENE (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Baby Doll Dresses References: <199912041947.LAA09980@apollo.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Janice Dallas Back in 1963-5, I had a baby doll dress, but it was emplire waist, full gathered skirt, and just above knee-length. I was in college at the time and the style was rarely worn. No bloomers needed. My friends thought it looked too much like a maternity outfit (even though I was very thin),so I went back to fitted dresses. Salem, MA just wasn't with it. -- Janice Dallas Boston,MA area, USA JaniceDals@MediaOne.net "Just so, the girl has beauty, virtue, wit..." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Dec 4 23:48:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA05859 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 23:48:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA06409; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 23:07:37 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA04255 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 23:07:20 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from raq.dnsworld.de ([212.98.68.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA04245 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 23:07:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from default (dialin-137.aachen.okay.net [194.117.250.137]) by raq.dnsworld.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA18699 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 07:07:16 +0100 Message-Id: <199912050607.HAA18699@raq.dnsworld.de> From: "Marquis de Kipar" Organization: L'Age d'Or To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 07:08:29 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: Off topic - sewing machine advice requested. Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3849F44D.E14FE431@home.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Marquis de Kipar" I have a Pfaff creative 7550, computer sewing machine, which I got in 1995 as a graduation present. It has 200 stitches, it embroiders, comes with PC designer software so that you can make your own embroidery patterns, sews leather and any other fabric you can think off, special transport for chiffon and silks so they won't pucker, free arm, many different button holes both mechanically and electronically (type in the length and width and it does it automatically) and god knows whatever else. I just love it and couldn't live without it anymore. Practically indistructible (no plactics insides, all metal), three year free service which I didn't need once. It is a German make and cost about 4.000 DM, I think that would be around 2.000 dollar. I don't know what Pfaff costs in America though. It's a machine for a lifetime and a special treat. Today there are the 7560 and 7570 on the market. http://www.pfaff.com/ Just saw they had an English language homepage too. P.S. I don't recommend Singer, my mother had too many problems after only a very few years since Singer switched over to using plastic parts inside, some broke and it was impossible to repair it, or would have been incredibly expensive. They advertise with 'featherlight' but I rather have a sturdy though computerised heavy model than a lightweight one which breaks easily. So she got a Pfaff as well, they have lots of different makes, all levels. I was told Husquarna is quite good as well. But that's all the makes I know, somehow the German/European market is rather ruled by Pfaff *laughs* now what a surprise... Have fun and good luck finding the right machine! Nicole ************************ N. Kipar Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs French and English Baroque http://www.kipar.org/ *Vel Exuviae Triumphant* *Triumphant Even In Adversity* marquis@kipar.org _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Dec 5 00:35:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA05882 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 00:34:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA09192; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 23:54:00 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA09380 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 23:53:37 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.36]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA09375 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 23:53:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([12.73.168.171]) by mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19991205065303.MHZA2272@worldnet.att.net> for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 06:53:03 +0000 Message-ID: <3848BF15.368D0505@worldnet.att.net> Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 23:13:25 -0800 From: Carolyn Richardson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-WNS5.0 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 'Fashion in Detail new book:' was Slub, dyed fur, differences infabric treatments References: <1D0F5BB98E98D311B17E0008C75D0B3A03EC1F@HHSMAIL> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Richardson "Bergdahl, Stephen" wrote: > > -Poster: "Bergdahl, Stephen" > > Maggie makes a very good point. That type of person will never let > something as simple as facts get in the way of what they "Know". Best > example I have heard to date was at Fort Sutter here in Sacramento. Someone > told one of the Docents that the wood floor was "wrong" because they had > used nails. After a few minutes of conversion it became clear that there > was no getting through to this guy that nails are period for most of > history. She just looked him in the eye, and told him, "Your right sir. > They screwed Jesus to the cross!" It still makes me laugh to thing about > it. ROTFL!!!!! Oh, that's priceless. I'll have to save that one. Still giggling, Carolyn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Dec 5 01:50:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA05972 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 01:50:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA13991; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 01:09:39 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA16322 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 01:09:08 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from one.net.au (darkblue.one.net.au [203.101.17.162]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id BAA16308 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 01:09:04 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 26702 invoked from network); 5 Dec 1999 08:08:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pbncomputer) (203.101.61.220) by darkblue.one.net.au with SMTP; 5 Dec 1999 08:08:25 -0000 From: "Megan McConnell" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Authenticity "Enforcers" Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 18:10:39 +1100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-reply-to: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Megan McConnell" >There are other re-enacting groups that have designated costume directors that are concerned with >such, What's worse is when the costume directors decide to go on "what looks good" rather than what is accurate. I've seen examples of this - and the same people then bag the SCA for not being authentic enough! What I love though is that a lot of these people are only too willing to use SCA research - and their garments are accurate - but not to the time period of their group! Have a terrific Day Megan Visit my website: http://hercountry.com/gentlearts/ Yahoo Messageing: madilayn > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Dec 5 02:52:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA10224 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 02:52:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA17461; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 02:11:18 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA22043 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 02:11:02 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA22036 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 02:11:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from wanda (ke-ppp00.hevanet.com [198.5.254.150]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id BAA18897 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 01:10:57 -0800 (PST) From: "Wanda Pease" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Authenticity "Enforcers" Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 01:08:49 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Wanda Pease" > > So true and often such an incorrect assumption. If someone asks why I did > something such and such a way or if such and such was period, I'll provide > my opinion, though usually couched with "this is the information I have at > this time" or "based on the documentation I've seen so far". I can't > imagine walking up to someone and critiquing their attire or other art > endeavor in most forums, especially the SCA. It would just be rude. Certainly unasked critiquing is rude, and only excusable when it is done in a fit of absence of mind (and manners), which happens only occasionally. However, sometimes the critiquing is done to a second party, not involved with the wearer, who asks "is _that_ period?". At which time a discussion takes places (quietly, and away from the wearer). Unfortunately, many garb snarks and their counterparts of police, policing garb snarks, then find it necessary to carry tales to the wearer with "you should hear what Lady X is saying about _your_ garb." Usually the language and/or criticism is far from what was actually said. The tattletale achieves the smug pleasure of spoiling someone else's fun, and smearing the people who find authenticity a fascinating subject in and of itself. Question however: The longer I am a Laurel, and in the SCA, the more I realize I do not know about my chosen field (the Middle Ages in Western Europe alone is a BIG place!). What are the suggestions for asking someone for documentation for a piece you are interested in? I remember the first time I saw a replica of one of the Bog Dresses from Denmark (not the Irish or Herjolfness ones). It looked so "wrong". I tried my very best to be polite and asked where the outfit came from, she was taken aback, and I think a little scared. They we went to her car where she had books in Danish with a picture of the particular find which is a bolero length, short sleeved top and I think, a string skirt. I learned something I would not have known for years by asking for documentation. At the same event was a young lady dressed right out of Elf Quest, and she knew it and said so when I asked about her costume. Bottom line, if you don't ask about something you'll be left ignorant. The trick, and it is a real trick, is to ask so you don't come across as accusatory. With some people this is simply impossible, since the act of asking the question makes you "rude". Regina Romsey, OL > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Dec 5 04:06:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA11423 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 04:06:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA19183; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 03:25:46 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA18991 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 03:25:25 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA18913 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 03:25:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.7] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11uYr4-0006lx-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 02:25:22 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19991205015444.00cc96c0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 01:55:49 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_H-COST:_Mus=E9e_des_Tissus_catalog=3F?= In-Reply-To: <1F176F2C2977D311B3300090270E637841AB12@scl-exch.phoenix.co m> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >Nor have I. Does the MdT have a catalog? Do you know it's name? >I'm afraid I dont actually own a slide projector. So retrotech. Cyn - if you get any such slides, please let me lend you my slide projector. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Dec 5 04:06:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA11424 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 04:06:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA19186; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 03:25:46 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA19224 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 03:25:29 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA19160 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 03:25:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.7] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11uYr7-0006lx-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 02:25:25 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19991205015832.00cc9d80@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 02:00:25 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Clothes beasties OT In-Reply-To: <1aD5pAAcoBS4IwHx@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> References: <3.0.3.32.19991202100132.006a41ac@pop.service.ohio-state.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >I know Scotland has a terrible social problem of damp in housing, but >I've never had any trouble with fabrics - certainly not in year-to-year >terms, though I don't know about preserving costumes over long periods. >Reasonable heating and ventilation is all it needs. Admittedly our >towels never dry in the bathroom, but I think that's down to the lack of >either - we hang them over a chair in the living room :) Folks in houseboats, and in our Pacific Northwest, sometimes leave a low wattage lightbulb on all the time in damp closets. 15 watts is enough. This keeps said closets too dry to allow the growth of mold. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Dec 5 04:06:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA11430 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 04:06:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA19187; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 03:25:47 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA19328 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 03:25:31 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA19268 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 03:25:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.7] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11uYrB-0006lx-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 02:25:29 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19991205020822.00927100@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 02:23:39 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: H-COST: Authenticity "Enforcers" In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows and the same >people then bag the SCA for not being authentic enough! The thing is that nobody can be 100% accurate. There's always some point on which people compromise. Was the velvet woven by hand, of period materials, and dyed with period-available dye? If one so much as used fluorescent light to sew by, or used modern thread and a modern steel needle, the garment less than perfectly period. So why get hung up on perfectionism? I can see trying to do things just the way another time or culture did, for the learning experience, but I can't see the rudeness which goes with perfectionism. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Dec 5 04:06:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA11434 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 04:06:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA19184; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 03:25:46 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA19261 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 03:25:30 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA19230 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 03:25:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.7] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11uYr9-0006lx-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 02:25:28 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19991205020406.03afbc90@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 02:05:52 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Authenticity "Enforcers" In-Reply-To: References: <002301bf3e77$1f98c840$83811a18@dsc.columbus.rr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >Just try being 100% authentic with a toddler.... Let them run around in their shirts. Plenty of period pictures of that, pick a period. And leading strings are always good. OTOH, I did crochet a plastic bottle tidy for my kids for Victorian use. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Dec 5 04:06:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA11438 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 04:06:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA19185; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 03:25:46 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA19046 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 03:25:26 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA18993 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 03:25:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.7] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11uYr5-0006lx-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 02:25:24 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19991205015633.03ae8eb0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 01:58:06 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: brocades, history, etcl In-Reply-To: <38481672.11C6@netwiz.net> References: <5B38B8D7EED8D211997F00A0C9E57FB91DB66B@HP-LH3> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >As to brocade weaves, the Chinese invented the draw-loom >which allows elaborate patterning. Not sure of the date, >but poss. B.C. And the Central Asian and Persian weavers >learned it from them, and so on. > Numerous examples of T'ang dynasty (ca 8-9th c.) patterned >silks have been found in western China (formerly Chinese >Turkestan) of Chinese manufacture as well as Sogdian and >Iranian. We're not talking about tapestry weaves here, are we? The Coptic people were doing that in some one-digit century, presumable with low-tech looms. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Dec 5 04:07:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA11442 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 04:07:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA19437; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 03:26:29 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA18914 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 03:25:24 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA18772 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 03:25:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.7] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11uYr1-0006lx-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 02:25:21 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19991205014953.00cd8840@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 01:53:44 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: 'Fashion in Detail new book:' was Slub, dyed fur, differences in fabric treatments In-Reply-To: <7F402D0574C3D011ACF000A0C92B23D3025E1116@nt13pv.apsc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >who insists that delicately woven, i.e. brocade, or patterned weaving (with >different colors)wasn't possible between 1550-1600 because the 'machines >didn't exist'. I have several photos, in an exhibit book from an exhibition of church vestments, showing very complicated weaves from the 1400's-1600's. This ought to be well before M. Jacquard, and his pattern weaving machine, were born. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Dec 5 04:07:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA11446 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 04:07:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA19434; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 03:26:29 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA19411 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 03:25:33 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA19359 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 03:25:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.7] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11uYrC-0006lx-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 02:25:31 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19991205022514.03af97b0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 02:26:19 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: H-COST: Authenticity "Enforcers" In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Thank you. This is indeed the difference between polite and rude. >Certainly unasked critiquing is rude, and only excusable when it is done in >a fit of absence of mind (and manners), which happens only occasionally. >However, sometimes the critiquing is done to a second party, not involved >with the wearer, who asks "is _that_ period?". At which time a discussion >takes places (quietly, and away from the wearer). Unfortunately, many garb >snarks and their counterparts of police, policing garb snarks, then find it >necessary to carry tales to the wearer with "you should hear what Lady X is >saying about _your_ garb." Usually the language and/or criticism is far >from what was actually said. The tattletale achieves the smug pleasure of >spoiling someone else's fun, and smearing the people who find authenticity a >fascinating subject in and of itself. > >Question however: The longer I am a Laurel, and in the SCA, the more I >realize I do not know about my chosen field (the Middle Ages in Western >Europe alone is a BIG place!). What are the suggestions for asking someone >for documentation for a piece you are interested in? I remember the first >time I saw a replica of one of the Bog Dresses from Denmark (not the Irish >or Herjolfness ones). It looked so "wrong". I tried my very best to be >polite and asked where the outfit came from, she was taken aback, and I >think a little scared. They we went to her car where she had books in >Danish with a picture of the particular find which is a bolero length, short >sleeved top and I think, a string skirt. I learned something I would not >have known for years by asking for documentation. > >At the same event was a young lady dressed right out of Elf Quest, and she >knew it and said so when I asked about her costume. > >Bottom line, if you don't ask about something you'll be left ignorant. The >trick, and it is a real trick, is to ask so you don't come across as >accusatory. With some people this is simply impossible, since the act of >asking the question makes you "rude". Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Dec 5 08:13:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA11798 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 08:13:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA27875; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 07:32:42 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA16615 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 07:32:06 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from wilma.widomaker.com (smtp@wilma.widomaker.com [204.17.220.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA16607 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 07:32:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.96.179.144] by wilma.widomaker.com with smtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for h-costume@indra.com id 11ucSz-0005Fo-00; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 09:16:46 -0500 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19991205141305.0083b364@widomaker.com> X-Sender: rcarnegie@widomaker.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 09:13:05 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Ron Carnegie Subject: Re: H-COST: brocades, history, etcl Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Ron Carnegie At 11:13 AM 12/3/99 -0800, you wrote: > >-Poster: Susan Fatemi > >MAGGIE SECARA wrote: >> >> -Poster: MAGGIE SECARA >> >> There's always someone who things everyone in the past was stupid, and that >> nothing of quality can be made without machines. Like the visitor to >> Colonial Williamsburg who told the sadler that what he was doing was >> impossible because only machines could do that kind of work. Or another, >> who wondered with awe if they had needles "back then". > >I go the other way -- I can't imagine how machines can do >stuff I only know how to do by hand! > That is what people miss. It is far more impressive that technology has given us machines that CAN do work priviously only done by hand. I work for the museum mentioned in Maggie's quote, and we get questions doubting that something can be done or existed in the period all the time. Rarely is it about anything that is even NEW in the 18th century. (I was informed while locked in an original gaol cell last thursday that there was no METAL in the 18th century! Not only were we well into the iron age, but the iron he mentioned dated from the period!!. We are never asked about the steam pump, or the jacquard loom, or the incredible scientific equipment available in the period, but rather about nails, neddles, architecture..... Oh well, Cheers, Ron Carnegie rcarnegie@widomaker.com ************************************************* "The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground walked other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow." G.M. Trevelyan ************************************************* _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Dec 5 08:35:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA11807 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 08:35:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA28730; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 07:54:59 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA18672 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 07:54:48 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from wilma.widomaker.com (smtp@wilma.widomaker.com [204.17.220.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA18667 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 07:54:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.96.179.144] by wilma.widomaker.com with smtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for h-costume@indra.com id 11ud3l-0006G4-00; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 09:54:46 -0500 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19991205145105.0087c9ac@widomaker.com> X-Sender: rcarnegie@widomaker.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 09:51:05 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Ron Carnegie Subject: RE: H-COST: Authenticity "Enforcers" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Ron Carnegie At 02:23 AM 12/5/99 -0800, you wrote: > >-Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > >and the same >>people then bag the SCA for not being authentic enough! > >The thing is that nobody can be 100% accurate. There's always some point >on which people compromise. Was the velvet woven by hand, of period >materials, and dyed with period-available dye? If one so much as used >fluorescent light to sew by, or used modern thread and a modern steel >needle, the garment less than perfectly period. So why get hung up on >perfectionism? I can see trying to do things just the way another time or >culture did, for the learning experience, but I can't see the rudeness >which goes with perfectionism. > > >Kayta There is NO reason that perfectionism and rudeness have to go together. The fact that they so often do is unfortunate as it give us perfectionists who couldn't care less what others do a bad name. Cheers, Ron Carnegie rcarnegie@widomaker.com ************************************************* "The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground walked other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow." G.M. Trevelyan ************************************************* _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Dec 5 08:38:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA11812 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 08:38:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA29014; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 07:58:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA19083 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 07:58:12 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from fargpop1.farg.uswest.net (fargpop1.farg.uswest.net [207.109.224.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA19075 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 07:58:11 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 8122 invoked by alias); 5 Dec 1999 14:58:09 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-h-costume@indra.com@fixme Received: (qmail 8098 invoked by uid 0); 5 Dec 1999 14:58:07 -0000 Received: from bdsl104.farg.uswest.net (HELO john) (209.181.216.104) by fargpop1.farg.uswest.net with SMTP; 5 Dec 1999 14:58:07 -0000 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19991205083536.00965d70@pop.farg.uswest.net> X-Sender: kimbaird@pop.farg.uswest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 08:57:03 -0600 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kim Baird Subject: H-COST: sewing machine advice requested. In-Reply-To: <015401bf3ed3$a98a54e0$0200a8c0@pavilion> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_207988923==_.ALT" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kim Baird --=====================_207988923==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Some comments on the sewing machine dilemma, from one who has owned 8 different machines, and 3 sergers: Don't buy any Singer that is not black cast iron Bernina makes the BEST home sewing machines. Period. A good used Bernina sews better than most new machines. Pfaff does not make any sergers. None of the sewing machine companies do. They go to the experts, factories in Japan or China, and have sergers made to their own specifications. Of course, they offer their own warranties. The dealer makes a difference. I hate to say it, but you may be better off with a not-quite-as-good brand of machine, if the dealer is friendly, helpful, supportive and up-to-date. New machines are DIFFERENT than your old Kenmore. Computerized machines offer many features that save time and effort, and improve your sewing. You might need to learn a few new tricks, so it's good to have a dealer who gives lessons, which should be included in the price of a new machine, but probably not a used one. Dealers tend to sell machines by extolling their "bells and whistles." Manufacturers add lots of stitches, most of which you will never use, to make more expensive (and thus more profitable) machines. These are the features that are really helpful, and get used: electronic foot control The foot pedal responds EXACTLY to what you want to do. One tap, and you get the needle up (if it was down) or down (if it was up). Tap the other end of the pedal and get one and only one complete stitch. needle stop up/down Electronic machines automatically stop with the needle in the fully UP position. Or, push a button and the opposite will always occur. Remember the flywheel? I haven't touched mine in years because of these 2 features. I can keep my hands on the fabric and save time. reverse sewing control Most machines have this button way over to the left. Get one that has it just above the needle, so you don't have to take one hand off the fabric to use it--just reach up with a thumb. Hey, if women were designing these things, all machines would be that way! knee lever This presser foot lifter means you can use your knee to lift the presser foot, and don't have to take your hands off the work for turning corners or other adjustments, or even to stop and start a seam. WARNING: don't use a machine with this lever unless you can afford to buy it. Once you get used to this, it's absolutely IMPOSSIBLE to live without! That said, if you have to choose between all those convenience features and a consistently good straight stitch, choose the stitch. If you haven't had enough of my opinions yet, respond privately and I will answer questions. Kim At 10:48 PM 12/04/1999 -0500, you wrote: >-Poster: "Megan McHugh" > > >After reading this list the past year or so, I am finally ready to fix up my >sewing space. I have a dress form on order, the parts to make a large >ironing table, and find to my horror that there are loud grinding noises >coming from my sewing machine. I figure I sew enough to upgrade to a fairly >decent one (better than the $150 Sears Kenmore I've been abusing for the >past 15 years), but would like some advice. I understand Bernina's are good >(G-Street uses them in their classes), but what about the other brands? Who >makes the Sears ones these days? What about Brother, Singer, Husqvarna >(sp?), Pfaff? I need to keep this in the triple digit price range. If you >want to keep this off the list you can email me privately. Thank you. > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME --=====================_207988923==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Some comments on the sewing machine dilemma, from one who has owned 8 different machines, and 3 sergers:

Don't buy any Singer that is not black cast iron

Bernina makes the BEST home sewing machines. Period.

A good used Bernina sews better than most new machines.

Pfaff does not make any sergers. None of the sewing machine companies do. They go to the experts, factories in Japan or China, and have sergers made to their own specifications. Of course, they offer their own warranties.

The dealer makes a difference. I hate to say it, but you may be better off with a not-quite-as-good brand of machine, if the dealer is friendly, helpful, supportive and up-to-date.

New machines are DIFFERENT than your old Kenmore. Computerized machines offer many features that save time and effort, and improve your sewing. You might need to learn a few new tricks, so it's good to have a dealer who gives lessons, which should be included in the price of a new machine, but probably not a used one.

Dealers tend to sell machines by extolling their "bells and whistles." Manufacturers add lots of stitches, most of which you will never use, to make more expensive (and thus more profitable) machines.

These are the features that are really helpful, and get used:

electronic foot control
        The foot pedal responds EXACTLY to what you want to do. One tap, and you get the needle up (if it was down) or down (if it was up). Tap the other end of the pedal and get one and only one complete stitch.

needle stop up/down
        Electronic machines automatically stop with the needle in the fully UP position. Or, push a button and the opposite will always occur.

Remember the flywheel?  I haven't touched mine in years because of these 2 features. I can keep my hands on the fabric and save time.

reverse sewing control
        Most machines have this button way over to the left. Get one that has it just above the needle, so you don't have to take one hand off the fabric to use it--just reach up with a thumb. Hey, if women were designing these things, all machines would be that way!

knee lever
        This presser foot lifter means you can use your knee to lift the presser foot, and don't have to take your hands off the work for turning corners or other adjustments, or even to stop and start a seam. WARNING: don't use a machine with this lever unless you can afford to buy it. Once you get used to this, it's absolutely IMPOSSIBLE to live without!

That said, if you have to choose between all those convenience features and a consistently good straight stitch, choose the stitch.

If you haven't had enough of my opinions yet, respond privately and I will answer questions.

Kim

At 10:48 PM 12/04/1999 -0500, you wrote:

-Poster: "Megan McHugh" <mmchugh@starpower.net>


After reading this list the past year or so, I am finally ready to fix up my
sewing space.  I have a dress form on order, the parts to make a large
ironing table, and find to my horror that there are loud grinding noises
coming from my sewing machine. I figure I sew enough to upgrade to a fairly
decent one (better than the $150 Sears Kenmore I've been abusing for the
past 15 years), but would like some advice.  I understand Bernina's are good
(G-Street uses them in their classes), but what about the other brands?  Who
makes the Sears ones these days?  What about Brother, Singer, Husqvarna
(sp?), Pfaff?  I need to keep this in the triple digit price range.  If you
want to keep this off the list you can email me privately.  Thank you.

 _________________________________________________________________
 To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com
 with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME
--=====================_207988923==_.ALT-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Dec 5 09:13:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA11858 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 09:13:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01080; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 08:32:48 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA22881 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 08:32:32 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.60]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA22870 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 08:32:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from 216-164-48-126.c3-0.gth-ubr1.lnh-gth.md.cable.rcn.com ([216.164.48.126] helo=pavilion) by smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #3) id 11uddn-0007V9-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 10:31:59 -0500 Message-ID: <005001bf3f36$062783a0$0200a8c0@pavilion> From: "Megan McHugh" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: sewing machine advice requested. Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 10:33:01 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004D_01BF3F0C.1B30BE80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Megan McHugh" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004D_01BF3F0C.1B30BE80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I found another brand on the internet last night. Does anyone have = experience with Elna? So far (as oof 10:30 am Sunday), Pfaff and = Bernina seem to be the favorites. Thanks again. ------=_NextPart_000_004D_01BF3F0C.1B30BE80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I found another brand on the = internet last=20 night.  Does anyone have experience with Elna?  So far (as oof = 10:30=20 am Sunday), Pfaff and Bernina seem to be the favorites.  Thanks=20 again.
 
------=_NextPart_000_004D_01BF3F0C.1B30BE80-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Dec 5 09:22:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA11864 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 09:22:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01595; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 08:41:34 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA23893 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 08:41:24 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from fargpop1.farg.uswest.net (fargpop1.farg.uswest.net [207.109.224.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA23886 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 08:41:22 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 15775 invoked by alias); 5 Dec 1999 15:41:21 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-h-costume@indra.com@fixme Received: (qmail 15768 invoked by uid 0); 5 Dec 1999 15:41:20 -0000 Received: from bdsl104.farg.uswest.net (HELO john) (209.181.216.104) by fargpop1.farg.uswest.net with SMTP; 5 Dec 1999 15:41:20 -0000 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19991205093941.0095f590@pop.farg.uswest.net> X-Sender: kimbaird@pop.farg.uswest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 09:41:17 -0600 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kim Baird Subject: Re: H-COST: sewing machine advice requested. In-Reply-To: <005001bf3f36$062783a0$0200a8c0@pavilion> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_245300==_.ALT" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kim Baird --=====================_245300==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Elna used to be made in Sweden. Now it is an American company. Many owners of older Elnas like them very much, but I don't know how the new machine compares. Another brand you haven't mentioned is Janome/New Home, a Japanese-made machine that I have heard good things about. Kim At 10:33 AM 12/05/1999 -0500, you wrote: >I found another brand on the internet last night. Does anyone have >experience with Elna? So far (as oof 10:30 am Sunday), Pfaff and Bernina >seem to be the favorites. Thanks again. >> --=====================_245300==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Elna used to be made in Sweden. Now it is an American company. Many owners of older Elnas like them very much, but I don't know how the new machine compares.

Another brand you haven't mentioned is Janome/New Home, a Japanese-made machine that I have heard good things about.

Kim


At 10:33 AM 12/05/1999 -0500, you wrote:
I found another brand on the internet last night.  Does anyone have experience with Elna?  So far (as oof 10:30 am Sunday), Pfaff and Bernina seem to be the favorites.  Thanks again.
 
--=====================_245300==_.ALT-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Dec 5 09:25:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA11868 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 09:25:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01775; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 08:44:37 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA24347 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 08:44:28 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com (imo14.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA24342 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 08:44:27 -0700 (MST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.4.) id 6.0.daf8ca39 (3868) for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 10:43:51 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.daf8ca39.257be236@aol.com> Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 10:43:50 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: sewing machine advice requested. To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 45 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AnnBWass@aol.com In a message dated 12/5/1999 9:58:49 AM Eastern Standard Time, kimbaird@uswest.net writes: > Pfaff does not make any sergers. None of the sewing machine companies do. > They go to the experts, factories in Japan or China, and have sergers made > to their own specifications. Of course, they offer their own warranties. > To correct this, true, Pfaff does not make the serger but they DO (at least when I bought mine) produce the electronic components. And I know people that love their Berninas and Vikings, too. As I said, I think any of the European machines are of good quality. Amen, though, to all the stitches we will never use. To get the features I want, when I can afford it, I will have to take a bunch of other stuff. It's kind of like a car, I suppose. If you want, say, power windows, you have to take the whole "accessory package." Ann Wass _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Dec 5 09:36:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA11886 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 09:36:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA02215; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 08:55:42 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA25529 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 08:55:30 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA25518 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 08:55:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991205155527.LTQF7535.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 07:55:27 -0800 Message-ID: <384A8AE7.19006F76@home.com> Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 09:55:19 -0600 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Authenticity "Enforcers" References: <002301bf3e77$1f98c840$83811a18@dsc.columbus.rr.com> <4.1.19991205020406.03afbc90@pop.slip.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kat & Kent Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > >Just try being 100% authentic with a toddler.... > > Let them run around in their shirts. Plenty of period pictures of > that, pick a period. And leading strings are always good. OTOH, I > did crochet a plastic bottle tidy for my kids for Victorian use. Well, I must admit that I used disposable diapers/pull-ups with my children. OTOH you never *saw* them because they both wear complete & accurate garb over the items in question. I did have to use a bottle with Jennifer but I nursed Corwyn so I didn't have that question with him and as soon as they went to cups I had child sized tankards for them. What always startled me though was seeing children dressed in an adult t-shirt for a tunic & a pair of tennis shoes. My children always wear a t-tunic or dress, tights and either boots, the most period looking maryjanes I can find, sandals or medieval moccasins. The latter are quite economical because the children can wear them for several years... in fact, from infancy to size 12 (which Jennifer is in now) I have only had to use five pairs of them. Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Dec 5 10:37:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA11916 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 10:37:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA06280; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 09:56:14 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA02704 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 09:55:47 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.12]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA02697 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 09:55:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (1Cust107.tnt2.denton.tx.da.uu.net [63.25.75.107]) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA14395 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 08:55:43 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <384A9C00.850E358@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 11:08:16 -0600 From: Magdalena X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Off topic - sewing machine advice requested. References: <015401bf3ed3$a98a54e0$0200a8c0@pavilion> <3849F44D.E14FE431@home.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Magdalena I love my White too... It has all metal construction, sews leather armor and sheer silk with equal ease, and I recently purchased a foot that will convert it into a one thread serger if I use the correct stitches. It has survived 6 years of hard use and my mom dropping it on concrete without need of repairs. I do maintain it properly, tho. ;> It doesn't have all the bells and whistles that Pfaffs and Berninas of the same general type do, but it cost me a lot less too. One word of warning, do _not_ buy a machine that has plastic parts! They _will_ wear out. I spent last night poking at a friend's machine's innards trying to fix it, until I noticed the gears were worn out.... -Magdalena _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Dec 5 11:20:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11968 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 11:20:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA10000; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 10:39:34 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA08350 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 10:38:52 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta4-svc.virgin.net (mta4-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.145]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08337 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 10:38:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from LOCALNAME ([194.168.238.186]) by mta4-svc.virgin.net (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with SMTP id <19991205173830.JOVE19570.mta4-svc@LOCALNAME> for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 17:38:30 +0000 Message-ID: <384B17BB.250F@virgin.net> Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 17:56:11 -0800 From: Dawn Organization: ages of elegance (http://www.ageofelegance.dabsol.co.uk) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-VN712-000 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Authenticity "Enforcers" References: <3849F50E.B813A45C@home.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dawn In my various uk groups we often refer to thes people as doctor details. In the Napoleonic Association there is one particular person who was very much like this and often criticised clothing, She also dressed as a male soldier. On one particular occassion when I was congratulated on a gown with the aside of 'of course trains were oldfashioned by 1810' I recall a reply of ----- when you get balls then you can criticise untill then you are less authentic than I am. Dawn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Dec 5 11:39:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11988 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 11:39:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA11190; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 10:58:16 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA10905 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 10:57:43 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from viper.columbus.rr.com (viper.columbus.rr.com [204.210.252.254]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA10900 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 10:57:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from dsc.columbus.rr.com (dhcp26129131.columbus.rr.com [24.26.129.131]) by viper.columbus.rr.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA10699 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 12:57:29 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <004e01bf3f4a$a253e480$83811a18@dsc.columbus.rr.com> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Authenticity "Enforcers" Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 13:00:36 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Greetings! >>Bottom line, if you don't ask about something you'll be left ignorant. The >>trick, and it is a real trick, is to ask so you don't come across as >>accusatory. With some people this is simply impossible, since the act of >>asking the question makes you "rude". The trick, I've found, is to bubble with enthusiasm. It's very, very difficult to come off as rude this way. "What a neat way of cutting that gown! It looks wonderful on you. Where DID you learn to do that?" That, along with an open mind (you never know what's going to turn up as being accurate-people are learning new things about historic dress every day) will get you far. Susan _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Dec 5 11:43:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11994 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 11:43:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11788; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 11:02:38 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA11467 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 11:02:26 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11456 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 11:02:24 -0700 (MST) From: Morghana@aol.com Received: from Morghana@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.4.) id 6.0.b731bb61 (4329) for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 13:01:47 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.b731bb61.257c028a@aol.com> Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 13:01:46 EST Subject: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #829 To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 45 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Morghana@aol.com In a message dated 12/5/99 12:41:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, someone writes: << Elna used to be made in Sweden. Now it is an American company. Many owners of older Elnas like them very much, but I don't know how the new machine compares.>> Incorrect. Elnas were Swiss made (though if an American company has bought them out, they may be manufactured in this country, too). Viking-Husqvarna is/was made in Sweden. The sewing machine portion of Viking was bought by White here in the US, a few years ago I believe). I've sewn on both Elnas and Viking, and I bought a Viking 990 (was top of the line when I bought it a dozen or more years ago). I like the machine.. it has more fancy stitches than I need, and it's been solid and dependable through a lot of sewing... home dec, costuming and professional suits for work. My 990 isn't even in the same LEAGUE anymore as far as bells and whistles with the current top of the line machines, though...... I also tried Bernina and Pfaff when I was shopping for a machine. A close friend has a Pfaff (she'd just gotten it) and after using it a few times, I didn't like how it felt. It was (to me) too ponderous... not responsive enough to the controls. The Berninas I tried felt like driving a five speed on a dump truck, and the machine I used "hammered" at the fabric. I was not impressed, so I bought the Viking. This isn't to say that both Bernina and Pfaff don't make good machines.... it could easily be that the particular models I was looking at were iffy, or that the dealers weren't maintaining them properly.... and my experience might be entirely different if I were to do the same tests today with my bag 'o scraps. << Another brand you haven't mentioned is Janome/New Home, a Japanese-made machine that I have heard good things about. >> I can't speak to the Janome/New Home sewing machines, but I recently (within the last six months) retired my Viking serger and bought a Janome CompuLock. I absolutely ADORE it!! (This is my third serger and by *far* the easiest to use, and makes an absolutely perfect stitch. I know I'm not pushing this machine's capabilities yet, but it's been very impressive). Ditto to the comments about buying from a dealer who will actually "be there" for you... it makes a world of difference. ~M _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Dec 5 16:06:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA12280 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 16:06:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA03971; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 15:25:07 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA16655 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 15:24:23 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.tricreations.com (dns-1.tricreations.com [216.205.16.110]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA16648 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 15:24:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from [38.27.144.216] ([38.27.144.216]) by mail.tricreations.com ; Sun, 05 Dec 1999 17:18:31 -0500 Subject: Re: H-COST: sewing machine advice requested. Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 17:21:58 -0500 x-sender: tr002203-elisee@mail.tricreations.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v3, January 22, 1998 From: Elisee du Lyonnais To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Message-ID: <94443231201@mail.tricreations.com> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Elisee du Lyonnais Minor correction. An American company, Tacony out of St. Louis is the American distributor of Elna Machines (Elna USA). The machines are NOT made in the US. To my knowledge, there are no sewing machines or sergers made in the US with the possible exception of the Featherweight reproduction that is coming out this Christmas. The Elna 9006 (Envision) was made in Japan, the CLUB; Switzerland, DIVA; Switzerland, 8000; Switzerland, 3007; Taiwan, 3005; Taiwan, 2002, 2004, and 2006; all Taiwan. Book value on the Envision is $659.50. You might be able to pick up one of those used reasonably. Lisa www.sewingcentral.com Kim Baird wrote: >Elna used to be made in Sweden. Now it is an American company. Many owners >of older Elnas like them very much, but I don't know how the new machine >compares. > >Another brand you haven't mentioned is Janome/New Home, a Japanese-made >machine that I have heard good things about. > >Kim > > >At 10:33 AM 12/05/1999 -0500, you wrote: >>I found another brand on the internet last night. Does anyone have >>experience with Elna? So far (as oof 10:30 am Sunday), Pfaff and Bernina >>seem to be the favorites. Thanks again. >>> > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Dec 5 17:37:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA12404 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 17:37:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA12461; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 16:56:25 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA28911 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 16:56:09 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from netwiz.net (Mail.NetWiz.Net [208.136.106.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA28905 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 16:56:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from agnes (BayArea56k553.NetWiz.Net [208.164.208.153]) by netwiz.net (8.9.2/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA10162 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 15:55:57 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <384AFB42.6F35@netwiz.net> Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 15:54:42 -0800 From: Susan Fatemi X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: brocades, history, etcl References: <5B38B8D7EED8D211997F00A0C9E57FB91DB66B@HP-LH3> <4.1.19991205015633.03ae8eb0@pop.slip.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Susan Fatemi Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > > >As to brocade weaves, the Chinese invented the draw-loom > >which allows elaborate patterning. Not sure of the date, > >but poss. B.C. And the Central Asian and Persian weavers > >learned it from them, and so on. > > Numerous examples of T'ang dynasty (ca 8-9th c.) patterned > >silks have been found in western China (formerly Chinese > >Turkestan) of Chinese manufacture as well as Sogdian and > >Iranian. > > We're not talking about tapestry weaves here, are we? The Coptic people > were doing that in some one-digit century, presumable with low-tech looms. > Hi Carolyn -- Nope. The tapestry weave is one of the few things the Chinese didn't invent! They learned it from the Central Asian people (proto-Turks??) who used it in rug weaving. (I've seen this in print, but don't have the energy to look it up.) Tapestry weave is ko-ssu (sp?) in Chinese and kesi in Japanese and I *want* some! I don't know the technical terms, but someone else also mentioned that the Chinese invented the drawloom a couple of millenia ago. And I have definately seen pictures of brocaded textiles from the 8th c. One source of documention is the *fabulous* book "When silk was gold" base on items in the Cleveland and Metropolitan Museums. Susan -- Oh Noh! Kimonos! susanf@netwiz.net http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Dec 5 17:55:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA12417 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 17:55:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA14238; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 17:14:17 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA01234 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 17:14:07 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from host.vivid.net (ns.vivid.net [206.65.48.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA01216 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 17:14:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from 209.195.11.188 (pm-atl-3-188.nbank.net [209.195.11.188]) by host.vivid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA01697 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 19:13:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <384B02FA.168D@vivid.net> Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 19:27:39 -0500 From: wendy Colbert X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: sewing machine advice requested. References: <005001bf3f36$062783a0$0200a8c0@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: wendy Colbert Megan McHugh wrote: > > I found another brand on the internet last night.  Does anyone have > experience with Elna?  So far (as oof 10:30 am Sunday), Pfaff and > Bernina seem to be the favorites.  Thanks again. > >   I have an ELna Diva and I love it. I bought it lightly used to upgrade from the ancient top of the line Kenmore that I was using. I purchased the Diva because a friend had one and I tried hers out and liked it. It doesn't handle 8 layers of heavy poly cotton as well as the Kenmore but the embroidery and precision is better. Wendy Colbert _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Dec 5 18:13:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA12440 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 18:13:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA15854; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 17:32:28 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA03761 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 17:32:19 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sd.znet.com (sd.znet.com [207.167.64.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA03751 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 17:32:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.167.66.86] (sdts10-86.znet.net [207.167.66.86]) by sd.znet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/jjb-sd) with ESMTP id QAA05482 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 16:32:16 -0800 (PST) X-Envelope-From: savaskan@sd.znet.com X-Envelope-To: Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 16:31:14 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Julie Adams Subject: RE: H-COST: Authenticity "Enforcers" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Julie Adams >What's worse is when the costume directors decide to go on "what looks good" >rather than what is accurate. I've seen examples of this - and the same >people then bag the SCA for not being authentic enough! I totally agree. I've seen this in the Renn faire stuff a lot, especially with color "rules", like "no pink", or only the Queen wears purple (even though the purple they choose is not "Imperial Purple"), but is actually a purple that can be made with cheaper natural dyes. A personal example: there was a statement by another costume director that all men of doppelsoldner rank and above in the landsknecht group should have more than 3 colors in their costume, yet most of my research indicated that two colors were predominant, with a very small percentage of 3 or more colors. Though it was a "theatrical" decision, it has now become a costume myth that landsknechts wear so many colors. Between that an the art in the Osprey Landknecht book, it is now an assumed truth. Unfortunately even most reeactors do their research by looking at the clothes other people are wearing, thus my standard warning "its not usually a good idea to do all your research at an event, and when you do, ask questions." Julie Adams _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Dec 5 18:13:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA12444 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 18:13:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA15855; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 17:32:28 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA03753 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 17:32:18 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sd.znet.com (sd.znet.com [207.167.64.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA03740 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 17:32:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.167.66.86] (sdts10-86.znet.net [207.167.66.86]) by sd.znet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/jjb-sd) with ESMTP id QAA05475 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 16:32:13 -0800 (PST) X-Envelope-From: savaskan@sd.znet.com X-Envelope-To: Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4.1.19991205020406.03afbc90@pop.slip.net> References: <002301bf3e77$1f98c840$83811a18@dsc.columbus.rr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 16:16:46 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Julie Adams Subject: H-COST: Kidstuff was (Authenticity Enforcers) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Julie Adams >>Just try being 100% authentic with a toddler.... > >Let them run around in their shirts. Plenty of period pictures of that, >pick a period. And leading strings are always good. I do that, but mine wear disposables and I make diaper covers, neither of which I have period examples for. And shirts alone only works for warm days. I even have a coral necklace for my toddler to give him good health:-) My kids are extremely well-dressed compared to most. I stock up on period-looking shoes in most sizes when I find them at thrift stores and such, so I have something for them for most ages. When we do landsknects, both boys wear leather puff and slash, striped hosen and feathered hats. My oldest son, age 6, finally graduated to full lederhosen with codpiece. Very cute. When we do 19th c, they've got outfits based on Workwoman's guide and otehr period paintings and I even put out a 19th c walker for display. But still I often bring out other items which are not 100% period, like if we are at an SCA event over 3 days, I will bring out my plastic high chair for feeding times inside the pavilion, just because it contains the mess of my youngest who will otherwise scatter food everywhere... I really needed leading strings for my oldest when he was a toddler. This second one isn't a runner, so its a lot easier. We also made a wooden portable fence that is set up as a "play yard" that looks pretty good (and I have references for similar devices for most periods.) Its usually only the diaper and shoes part of the costuming that I'm not 100% on, but since I'm not perfect, how can I expect others to be? We usually manage "visual" accuracy pretty well, but behind the scenes some things are 20th c - like diapers and plastic bottles. >OTOH, I did crochet a >plastic bottle tidy for my kids for Victorian use. Since I couldn't nurse 100% of the time, I made linen drawstring bags to cover my bottles. But there is a point that I just don't go too, like making leather "nipples" for ceramic bottles for example which would be the 16th c equivlent... but I collect and make cloth, wooden and leather toys for them to play with, and besides much of the time they are happy with dirt, sticks and rocks :-) Julie Adams _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Dec 5 22:42:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA12804 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 22:42:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA10055; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 22:01:16 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA00900 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 22:00:44 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from centaur.qa.ebay.com (centaur.qa.ebay.com [216.33.247.240]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA00894 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 22:00:43 -0700 (MST) From: joanj@quiknet.com Received: from centralian.ebay.com (centralian.ebay.com [216.32.120.85]) by centaur.qa.ebay.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 90923A9A49 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 21:00:15 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Interesting item on eBay web site item#212853272: 4 ANTIQUE WOODEN SHOE LASTS / SHOE FORMS Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 20:59:34 Pacific Standard Time Message-Id: <19991206050015.90923A9A49@centaur.qa.ebay.com> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: joanj@quiknet.com I saw this item for sale at eBay and thought that someone on the list might be interested. This seller has several auctions of shoe lasts, so do look at the seller's list. For any incipient cordwainers, this may be a way to get some shoe lasts at reasonable prices. Good luck! Joan Jurancich Sacramento, CA joanj@quiknet.com Title of item: 4 ANTIQUE WOODEN SHOE LASTS / SHOE FORMS Seller: idtrims@ipa.net Starts: 12/02/99, 18:46:49 PST Ends: 12/09/99, 18:46:49 PST Price: Starts at $9.99 To bid on the item, go to: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=212853272 Item Description: This is a lot of 4 ADULT SIZE antique wooden shoe lasts. The shoes you are bidding on are not the exact ones pictured, but almost identical. Shoes may vary in sizes from 5" to 12". See pictures below for other uses. Buyer pays actual shipping, will accept check or money order. Please see my other auctions for more shoe lasts. Visit eBay, the world's largest Personal Trading Community at http://www.ebay.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Dec 5 23:14:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA12837 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 23:14:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA12878; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 22:34:02 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA06154 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 22:33:56 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from pop1.cyberhighway.net (pop1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.35]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA06147 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 22:33:54 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199912060533.WAA06147@net.indra.com> Received: (qmail 3945 invoked from network); 5 Dec 1999 22:33:53 -0700 Received: from ts26-05.boi.cyberhighway.net (HELO kathy) (209.161.8.119) by pop1.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 5 Dec 1999 22:33:53 -0700 From: "K & J Hopkins" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Authenticity "Enforcers" Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 22:43:52 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "K & J Hopkins" > > I totally agree. I've seen this in the Renn faire stuff a lot, especially > with color "rules", like "no pink", Now were would someone get the idea that there was no pink? What does red fade to? In the list of colors of Queen Elizabeth's wardrobe I recall lots of pinks, they just were not called pink. At my first Estrella War, I was sitting in camp when a person came in and said that she had just been told that 'brown' was not period. I said "That would mean dirt isn't period". Kathlene _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Dec 5 23:18:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA12848 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 23:18:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA13133; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 22:37:43 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA06669 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 22:37:38 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA06660 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 22:37:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA28338 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 22:37:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from ip-55-011.sna.primenet.com(207.218.55.11), claiming to be "pavilion" via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpdAAAJtayv3; Sun Dec 5 22:37:22 1999 Message-Id: <4.1.19991205213504.00b31700@pop.primenet.com> X-Sender: kittykat@pop.primenet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 21:36:30 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Svanhildr Valdimarsdottir Subject: Re: H-COST: Authenticity "Enforcers" In-Reply-To: <199912060533.WAA06147@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Svanhildr Valdimarsdottir At 09:43 PM 12/05/1999 , you wrote: >-Poster: "K & J Hopkins" > >At my first Estrella War, I was sitting in camp when a person came in and >said that she had just been told that 'brown' was not period. I said "That >would mean dirt isn't period". > >Kathlene I just fell of the couch! That is soooo funny! Svanny _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Dec 5 23:30:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA12881 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 23:30:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA14358; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 22:48:07 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA07870 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 22:48:01 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA07864 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 22:47:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.27] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11ur09-0002lF-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 21:47:57 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19991205023317.00d08240@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 21:47:58 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: H-COST: Authenticity "Enforcers" In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19991205145105.0087c9ac@widomaker.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >>Kayta > > There is NO reason that perfectionism and rudeness have to go >together. The fact that they so often do is unfortunate as it give us >perfectionists who couldn't care less what others do a bad name. > >Cheers, >Ron Carnegie >rcarnegie@widomaker.com Striving to achieve perfection doesn't make one a perfectionist. By perfectionists I mean those folks so hung up on being perfect that they can't see any reason not to be. This makes them unreasonably narrow in outlook, and they become rude when dealing with other people who have different goals. I can't imagine you are what I would call a perfectionist, regardless of your apparently very high standards. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 6 00:48:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA12933 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 00:48:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA20709; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 00:08:13 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA17640 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 00:07:52 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.radiks.net (mail.radiks.net [205.138.126.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA17619 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 00:07:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from dialup (56K-lnk-21.radiks.net [206.29.243.23]) by mail.radiks.net (8.9.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id BAA06481 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 01:05:27 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19991206004425.03cd5ce4@radiks.net> X-Sender: costumrs@radiks.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 00:44:25 -0600 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger Subject: H-COST: Re: Williamsburg book, sewing machines In-Reply-To: <199912051739.KAA08410@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger A couple of things: I read the Threads article about the Williamsburg exhibit, and also saw the review of the Fashion in Detail book. I immediately logged on to Amazon.com, and ordered both the Fashion book and the Williamsburg patterns. The Fashion book was $42, rather than the $60 given in the review. I have already received it, and after a quick glance decided I would be doing a lot of drooling - great pics! The other one Amazon says it has reserved and will ship when it comes out in February. As to machines, we tend to the high end - I have a Janome/New Home Memory Craft 8000, about 6 years old, and it's had no major repairs - just a tune up now and then. It was one of the first embroidery machines, which I wanted, and it sews very well. My husband just got his new toy - Husquvarna (Viking) new Designer-1. We still have my first machine - a 18 yr old or so Kenmore, which gets used for all the really heavy-duty stuff, as sometimes I don't want the automatic full-stitch-with-one-tap operation of the computer machines. This was one of the "Super High Bar" Kenmores - the main reason I got a new machine was it was just too darned hard to find feet to fit it. It's gone thru thick leather, 8 layers of canvas, plastic canvas, whatever, no problem. We also have my mothers (less than 10 yo) Singer - it's a piece of junk. Just my .02 worth. Sandy _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 6 00:54:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA12939 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 00:54:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA20959; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 00:13:25 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA17989 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 00:11:24 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from wilma.widomaker.com (smtp@wilma.widomaker.com [204.17.220.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA17980 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 00:11:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from [206.246.249.220] by wilma.widomaker.com with smtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for h-costume@indra.com id 11usIs-0000ax-00; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 02:11:22 -0500 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19991206070736.00850a80@widomaker.com> X-Sender: rcarnegie@widomaker.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 02:07:36 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Ron Carnegie Subject: Re: H-COST: Authenticity "Enforcers" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Ron Carnegie At 10:43 PM 12/5/99 -0700, you wrote: > >-Poster: "K & J Hopkins" > >> >> I totally agree. I've seen this in the Renn faire stuff a lot, especially >> with color "rules", like "no pink", > >Now were would someone get the idea that there was no pink? What does red >fade to? In the list of colors of Queen Elizabeth's wardrobe I recall lots >of pinks, they just were not called pink. > >At my first Estrella War, I was sitting in camp when a person came in and >said that she had just been told that 'brown' was not period. I said "That >would mean dirt isn't period". > >Kathlene I think you missed the point of the originial post, that these decisions were made for "artistic" reasons rather than historical, and then with time it was forgot that they were not historical decisions. Cheers, Ron Carnegie rcarnegie@widomaker.com ************************************************* "The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground walked other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow." G.M. Trevelyan ************************************************* _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 6 01:42:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA13034 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 01:42:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA23474; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 01:01:57 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA23247 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 01:01:45 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta3.snfc21.pbi.net (mta3.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.141]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA23223 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 01:01:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from pacbell.net ([206.170.70.141]) by mta3.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8) with ESMTP id <0FMB00AB17LFZG@mta3.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 00:00:53 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 00:02:36 +0000 From: Dietmar Subject: H-COST: Re: "snark" To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <384AFD18.1338005A@pacbell.net> Organization: Completely Disorganized MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-PBI-NC404 (Macintosh; I; PPC) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <199912040642.XAA13955@net.indra.com> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dietmar Greetings all, I'm sorry for jumping into this so late. Drea had offered: >> Snotty, Nasty And Righteous Know-it-all How about: S-pewing S-tupid S-piritual S-omeone that N-egativity N-asty N-onentity N-obody A-bsent A-nal A-cquiring A-cknowledges & is R-eal R-etentive R-ancid R-arely K-nowledge K-illjoy K-arma K-ind Just goofing around, Dietmar "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 6 01:58:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA13045 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 01:58:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA24811; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 01:17:42 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA24721 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 01:17:24 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta3.snfc21.pbi.net (mta3.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.141]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA24714 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 01:17:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from pacbell.net ([206.170.70.141]) by mta3.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8) with ESMTP id <0FMB00L4B89BAQ@mta3.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 00:15:13 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 00:16:57 +0000 From: Dietmar Subject: H-COST: Re: Kidstuff was (Authenticity Enforcers) To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <384B0075.FE07F622@pacbell.net> Organization: Completely Disorganized MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-PBI-NC404 (Macintosh; I; PPC) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <002301bf3e77$1f98c840$83811a18@dsc.columbus.rr.com> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dietmar Greetings, Julie wrote: > We also made a wooden portable fence that is set up as a "play yard" > that looks pretty good (and I have references for similar devices > for most periods.) Well, they used to have a fence until a recent night with a new moon when someone leaving their camp around midnight tripped and fell right through it...Sorry Julie. :-( Dietmar "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 6 04:10:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA18467 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 04:10:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA01944; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 03:29:43 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA19630 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 03:29:08 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [195.194.177.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA19438 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 03:29:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from csv6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA15994.; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 10:35:07 GMT Received: from staff-Message_Server by csv6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 06 Dec 1999 10:28:46 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5.2 Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 10:25:59 +0000 From: "KATE M BUNTING" To: Subject: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #823 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id DAA19535 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "KATE M BUNTING" Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> Someone told one of the Docents that the wood floor was "wrong" because they had used nails. After a few minutes of conversion it became clear that there was no getting through to this guy that nails are period for most of history. She just looked him in the eye, and told him, "Your right sir. They screwed Jesus to the cross!" It still makes me laugh to thing about it. <<< An American friend now resident in the UK claims to have made a similar retort to a fellow-visitor to (I think) an American Civil War battlefield, who asserted that nails were not available then. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 6 05:48:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA18520 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 05:48:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA05273; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 05:07:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA13629 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 05:06:47 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from one.net.au (darkblue.one.net.au [203.101.17.162]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id FAA13611 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 05:06:40 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 902 invoked from network); 6 Dec 1999 12:06:05 -0000 Received: from async82-bri-isp-4.nas.one.net.au (HELO pbncomputer) (203.101.60.83) by darkblue.one.net.au with SMTP; 6 Dec 1999 12:06:05 -0000 From: "Megan McConnell" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: sewing machine advice requested. Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 22:08:20 +1100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0012_01BF4036.67D3AB00" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <005001bf3f36$062783a0$0200a8c0@pavilion> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Megan McConnell" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BF4036.67D3AB00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Does anyone have experience with Elna? I swear by my 30 year old Elna. The best ones are the ones from the 60's - they have a ful l metal case, and can do everything that a computerised machine can. The fancy stitches are done using cams - and one of them even has a 2 thread overlocking stitch. I paid $400AUD for mine second hand and re-conditioned - however it was the top of it's range in the late 60's. My mother also has an Elna - the same model as mine (the case is cream and blue) and it has done everything. She was a professional dressmaker - so it has had some hard work on lots of different weight fabrics. It was also submerged for 5 days under 40 feet of water in 1974 (Brisbane Floods) and after servicing and cleaning has not had any problems since. I highly recommend them. Most Janome retailers also sell Elna. Have a terrific Day Megan Visit my website: http://hercountry.com/gentlearts/ ICQ # 57164109 Yahoo Messageing: madilayn ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BF4036.67D3AB00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>Does anyone=20 have experience with Elna? 
 
I swear by = my 30 year=20 old Elna.  The best ones are the ones from the 60's - they have a = ful l=20 metal case, and can do everything that a computerised machine can.  = The=20 fancy stitches are done using cams - and one of them even has a 2 thread = overlocking stitch.
 
I paid = $400AUD for mine=20 second hand and re-conditioned - however it was the top of it's range in = the=20 late 60's. 
 
My mother = also has an=20 Elna - the same model as mine (the case is cream and blue) and it has = done=20 everything.  She was a professional dressmaker - so it has had some = hard=20 work on lots of different weight fabrics.  It was also submerged = for 5 days=20 under  40 feet of water in 1974 (Brisbane Floods) and after = servicing and=20 cleaning has not had any problems since.
 
I highly = recommend=20 them.  Most Janome retailers also sell Elna.
 

Have a terrific = Day

Megan

Visit my website:  = http://hercountry.com/gentlearts/
ICQ #  57164109 =
Yahoo Messageing:  = madilayn=20

------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BF4036.67D3AB00-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 6 07:40:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA18580 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 07:40:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA11946; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 06:59:51 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA25451 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 06:59:19 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA25442 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 06:59:18 -0700 (MST) From: Gaelscot@aol.com Received: from Gaelscot@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.4.) id 6.0.3c9af502 (4358) for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 08:58:42 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.3c9af502.257d1b12@aol.com> Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 08:58:42 EST Subject: H-COST: tshirt t-tunics To: h-costume-digest@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com My son (now 3) always wears a t-shirt with my husband's arms stenciled on it. Before you criticize -- he WILL NOT wear garb. Any of the nice period things we've made for him come off immediately, if we manage to get them on in the first place. And both my husband and I try to be authentic -- we garter our hose and wear medieval shoes, we always wear period headcoverings, etc. I'm not saying that everyone whose children run around in modern clothes to costume events are in the same boat. I just want to remind the list that there are often reasons we don't know for things we find inexplicable in others. But of course, we all know this. Sometimes we just need a reminder. Gail Finke _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 6 07:56:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA18608 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 07:56:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA13243; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 07:15:57 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA27601 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 07:15:47 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA27593 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 07:15:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) id <01JJ6MPFPPXS000S3M@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 14:15:34 GMT Received: from mdx-rf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-rf-s1.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.198.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) with ESMTP id <01JJ6MMLIUAG00118I@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Mon, 06 Dec 1999 13:59:15 +0000 (GMT) Received: from MDX-RF-S1/SpoolDir by mdx-rf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) ; Mon, 06 Dec 1999 13:56:42 +1100 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-RF-S1 (Mercury 1.44); Mon, 06 Dec 1999 13:56:12 +1100 Received: from rf_lib_11161 (158.94.198.72) by mdx-rf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Mon, 06 Dec 1999 13:56:04 +1100 Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 13:56:03 +0000 (GMT) From: Teddy Subject: Re: Re: H-COST: Moths in UK In-reply-to: <199912032322.QAA08564@net.indra.com> To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: <151DDF12CC2@mdx-rf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Teddy > > carpet-beetle) All sorted now thanks to some nasty stuff > > from the local vet, > > Please tell. What nasty stuff is this? In addition to everything > else, we have wool carpeting here. > > Kayta To be honest, I can't remember what it was called. Someone suggested I ask in the vet to see if they could suggest something and they sold me a huge spray-can of stuff that also does for fleas and other nasties that can effect pets. Treating the house with it involved spraying everything (starting with the rooms farthest from the door and working towards the door) before leaving for work in the mornin, then leaving allt he doors and windows open for at least 30 minutes when we returned in order to get trid of the fumes.... But it worked - killed the little buggers and stopped their young-uns from hatching/developing. It said on the can it was effective for up to 7 months. About 18 months later there was a repeat of the problem but much smaller and more "localized" (traced to something that was brought into the house). We retreated the entire place, just to be sure, and haven't had problems with it since.... We're considering setting up a "decontamination unit" in the shed - any fabric items we buy will be hung in there and sprayed before they're allowed in the house.... either that or we put a sewing machine and extension-lead out there so we can zig-zag the edges of new fabrics then put them into the machine for a good boil before they can contaminate the rest of the collection.... Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of air and darkness, apparently!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 6 08:12:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA18692 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 08:12:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA14553; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 07:32:03 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA00261 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 07:31:51 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail3.svr.pol.co.uk (mail3.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.19]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA00253 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 07:31:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from modem103.tweety.pol.co.uk ([195.92.6.231] helo=herimats) by mail3.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.11 #0) id 11uzB7-0006OY-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 06 Dec 1999 14:31:49 +0000 Message-ID: <003f01bf3ff6$b903c540$e7065cc3@herimats> From: "LDMundy" To: References: <199912060533.WAA06147@net.indra.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: Authenticity "Enforcers" Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 14:29:50 -0000 Organization: Heritage Matters at Wysewords MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "LDMundy" > -Poster: "K & J Hopkins" > > > > At my first Estrella War, I was sitting in camp when a person came in and > said that she had just been told that 'brown' was not period. I said "That > would mean dirt isn't period". > Buttocks clenched for the weekend then? Sorry - Dave _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 6 08:12:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA18696 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 08:12:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA14551; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 07:32:03 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA00257 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 07:31:51 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail3.svr.pol.co.uk (mail3.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.19]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA00246 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 07:31:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from modem103.tweety.pol.co.uk ([195.92.6.231] helo=herimats) by mail3.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.11 #0) id 11uzB6-0006OY-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 06 Dec 1999 14:31:48 +0000 Message-ID: <003e01bf3ff6$b83ea080$e7065cc3@herimats> From: "LDMundy" To: References: <19991206050015.90923A9A49@centaur.qa.ebay.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: I 4 ANTIQUE WOODEN SHOE LASTS / SHOE FORMS Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 14:27:17 -0000 Organization: Heritage Matters at Wysewords MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "LDMundy" > > -Poster: joanj@quiknet.com > For any incipient cordwainers, this may be a way to get some shoe lasts at reasonable prices. Good luck! > Personally I would date these as immediately post war at a pinch; But a word of warning to those who want to buy them to make shoes- thet are in a bad state but you also really need TWO - one for each foot, unless you are numerically restricted in the lower limb department. There a couple of Uk firms that have warehouses full of these in pairs and sets. I have a room full myself Just thought I would stick in . Dave _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 6 08:17:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA18727 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 08:17:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA15022; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 07:36:30 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA01069 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 07:36:26 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail3.svr.pol.co.uk (mail3.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.19]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA01058 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 07:36:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from modem103.tweety.pol.co.uk ([195.92.6.231] helo=herimats) by mail3.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.11 #0) id 11uzFX-0006tZ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 06 Dec 1999 14:36:23 +0000 Message-ID: <004901bf3ff7$5c633220$e7065cc3@herimats> From: "LDMundy" To: References: <151DDF12CC2@mdx-rf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Re: H-COST: Moths in UK Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 14:36:35 -0000 Organization: Heritage Matters at Wysewords MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "LDMundy" > > -Poster: Teddy > > > To be honest, I can't remember what it was called. Someone > suggested I ask in the vet to see if they could suggest something > and they sold me a huge spray-can of stuff that also does for fleas > and other nasties that can effect pets. Teddy Is it Nuvan-Tops ? comes in two very expensive cans one for the house and one for cats dogs etc. If so yes it is tedious but effective but when you get cat number 7 your clothes are in tatters anyway. They also recognise the colour of the can the next time around. Only do one room at a time though - if you do the house in one go - you have to put up a tent in the back yard- I know. Dave _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 6 08:23:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA18737 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 08:23:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA15748; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 07:43:08 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA02314 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 07:43:03 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA02303 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 07:43:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991206144300.MEZ7535.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 06:43:00 -0800 Message-ID: <384BCB38.7036B71D@home.com> Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 08:42:00 -0600 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: tshirt t-tunics References: <0.3c9af502.257d1b12@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kat & Kent Gaelscot@aol.com wrote: > > My son (now 3) always wears a t-shirt with my husband's arms stenciled > on it. Before you criticize -- he WILL NOT wear garb. Any of the nice > period things we've made for him come off immediately, if we manage to > get them on in the first place. And both my husband and I try to be > authentic -- we garter our hose and wear medieval shoes, we always > wear period headcoverings, etc. Hey, at least you have the arms on there!! What do you mean by nice garb? With the smalls, I've found that just having a t-tunic of a soft material is best... tights if you can get them on them... I got some other kids interested in the medieval moccs by wondering out loud if they were *old* enough to wear them. The other type of shoes I use are so close to sneakers that I never had trouble with either of the kids and boots are made for stomping so they're fairly easy! I found too that it was easier to get the kids into garb that they had helped pick out (eg picked out the fabric from my stock or the store). You might try asking him what he doesn't like about garb. I know some kids don't like certain fabric and if he'll wear a t-shirt it may be that switching to something like a cotton flannel or a soft linen might help. > I'm not saying that everyone whose children run around in modern > clothes to costume events are in the same boat. I just want to remind > the list that there are often reasons we don't know for things we find > inexplicable in others. But of course, we all know this. Sometimes we > just need a reminder. True... but I must say that my first instinct is still to feel jarred by it... otoh seeing one with arms on it would lessen that tremendously! Most of the parents I've talked to who's kids aren't dressed (most of them aren't making *any* kind of attempt) say "well, kids won't wear this kind of stuff"... usually while my kids in garb (her in chemise & irish, him in t-tunic & tights or tight sweatpants or nothing depending on the season) are standing right beside me. Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 6 11:15:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA19156 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 11:14:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA10601; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 10:32:48 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA18821 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 10:31:55 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from rmx11.iname.net (rmx11.iname.net [165.251.8.201]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA18785 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 10:31:51 -0700 (MST) From: psychopixie@playful.com Received: from webb1.iname.net (webb1.iname.net [165.251.4.131]) by rmx11.iname.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA00434 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 12:31:51 -0500 (EST) Received: (from root@localhost) by webb1.iname.net (8.9.1a/8.9.2.Alpha2) id MAA19159; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 12:31:51 -0500 (EST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <9912061231505A.12531@webb1.iname.net> Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 12:31:50 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: Text/Plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: Thank you! Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: psychopixie@playful.com I just want to say a huge THANK YOU to everyone who so graciously responded with the information about where to purchase Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'ed. So many people responded with different sources, and you all were extremely helpful. I found out the other day that the very afternoon that I forwarded the info to my fiance, he ordered the book from Amazon.com.UK and the book arrived a week or so ago! I am so excited- I can't wait for Christmas so I can pore through it! Thanks to all of you, and I hope that you all have a wonderful Holiday Season! Sigrid Frazier ------------------------------------------------------------- Get free personalized email at http://www.switchboardmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 6 11:43:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA19246 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 11:43:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA15689; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 11:02:19 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA27388 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 11:01:10 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bigred.unl.edu (00217146@bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA27374 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 11:01:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (00217146@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA12170 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 12:06:09 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 12:06:08 -0600 (CST) From: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Baby Doll Dresses In-Reply-To: <384CA26F.2D29B2E0@imsday.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> Speaking as one who was not there, what is a skimmer? I have a pretty good idea what a babydoll dress looks like, but other than length (well, sort of) I don't know anything about skimmers. On Tue, 7 Dec 1999, Winifred Smith wrote: > > > -Poster: Margo Anderson > > > > >> > > >Well, I found the ANCIENT photo of me in my skimmer and it BARELY covered my > > >rearend - the same length you describe for the baby doll. It had bottoms - > > >somewhat skimpy ones but they were there - to go with it. > > > > We called those "sizzlers". > > > > Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 6 13:07:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA19366 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 13:07:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA29193; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 12:21:38 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA09451 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 12:20:08 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09411 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 12:20:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA25157; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 14:19:49 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 14:19:46 -0500 (EST) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: Joan M Jurancich cc: Costume List Subject: Re: H-COST: 'Fashion in Detail new book:' was Slub, dyed fur, differences i... In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19991203194721.3aff4562@mail2.quiknet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kevin & Mara Riley Well said, Joan-- that's a pet peeve of mine, too. I'm constantly trying to beat into the heads of a few of my fellow reenactors that EVERYTHING I've seen from period (mid-18th c.) was MUCH finer than anything we moderns could reproduce by hand without lots and lots of practice. (Ok, so I could actually do a halfway decent job on some common objects. But I've been hand-sewing since I was small, just because I like it. And I still couldn't possibly replicate some of the handwork done on objects I've seen from the DAR costume collection.) Same goes for other hand-made objects from the period -- people did things well and expected them to last, by and large. Our consumer culture, where furniture is made of fiber-board and discarded after five years, has simply ruined people's appreciation for how much work and care went into making things and making sure they LASTED. Cheers, Mara _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 6 13:10:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA19374 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 13:10:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00527; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 12:29:11 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA11822 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 12:28:58 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA11808 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 12:28:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.131] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11v3ob-0001WH-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 11:28:54 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19991206105524.03a9b550@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 10:57:27 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: tshirt t-tunics In-Reply-To: <0.3c9af502.257d1b12@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows I just want to remind the list that >there are often reasons we don't know for things we find inexplicable in >others. But of course, we all know this. Sometimes we just need a reminder. The people on this list seem to be of the reasonable sort, but THANK YOU for what might be a reality check in other places/situations. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 6 13:11:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA19378 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 13:11:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00487; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 12:29:08 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA11835 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 12:29:00 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA11824 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 12:28:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.131] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11v3oe-0001WH-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 11:28:56 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19991206105848.03a947e0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 11:09:31 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: Re: H-COST: Moths in UK In-Reply-To: <151DDF12CC2@mdx-rf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> References: <199912032322.QAA08564@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows I will ask my vet about what your bug poison might be. Thank you for your reply. I should be able to set up a decontamination unit here. My problem is usually with those bargains from the flea market or yard sale, especially those which can't be washed, like felt hats or feathers or shoes. Maybe quarantine would solve the problem for these items. If any signs of infestation appeared, the poison could go into the quarantine bag. Thrift stores in California usually have chemical decontamination procedures - that's what causes that 'thrift store' smell things have. There may even be a law here mandating such procedure. >> > carpet-beetle) All sorted now thanks to some nasty stuff >> > from the local vet, >> >> Please tell. What nasty stuff is this? In addition to everything >> else, we have wool carpeting here. >> >> Kayta > >To be honest, I can't remember what it was called. Someone >suggested I ask in the vet to see if they could suggest something >and they sold me a huge spray-can of stuff that also does for fleas >and other nasties that can effect pets. > >Treating the house with it involved spraying everything (starting with >the rooms farthest from the door and working towards the door) >before leaving for work in the mornin, then leaving allt he doors and >windows open for at least 30 minutes when we returned in order to >get trid of the fumes.... But it worked - killed the little buggers and >stopped their young-uns from hatching/developing. It said on the >can it was effective for up to 7 months. About 18 months later >there was a repeat of the problem but much smaller and more >"localized" (traced to something that was brought into the house). >We retreated the entire place, just to be sure, and haven't had >problems with it since.... > >We're considering setting up a "decontamination unit" in the shed - >any fabric items we buy will be hung in there and sprayed before >they're allowed in the house.... either that or we put a sewing >machine and extension-lead out there so we can zig-zag the edges >of new fabrics then put them into the machine for a good boil before >they can contaminate the rest of the collection.... Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 6 13:12:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA19382 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 13:12:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00494; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 12:29:09 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA11858 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 12:29:04 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA11850 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 12:29:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.131] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11v3oh-0001WH-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 11:29:00 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19991206111134.03a9fc40@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 11:25:42 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: tshirt t-tunics In-Reply-To: <384BCB38.7036B71D@home.com> References: <0.3c9af502.257d1b12@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >Most of the parents I've talked to who's kids aren't dressed (most of >them aren't making *any* kind of attempt) say "well, kids won't wear >this kind of stuff"... usually while my kids in garb (her in chemise & >irish, him in t-tunic & tights or tight sweatpants or nothing depending >on the season) are standing right beside me. My younger kid bugged me for a new dress for half the run of Faire this year. She's 11 and it's her 3rd year as a card-carrying participant. She's the one who took over the family dress-up box. Her older sister couldn't be bothered by all this costume stuff, so I take her to shop at the retro fashion places in 'The Haight' instead. Her 'period' is retro 60's-70's. (The Haight is the 90's term for the Haight-Ashberry district in San Francisco, made famous by the Hippies in the 60's. These days it is mostly cool little restaurants and cappuccino joints, several retro clothing shops, a few little bookstores, some leftover "head shops", one full-service Drag Queen outfitter, two really amazing cloth stores, and one bead store. My older kid and I spend all day there for her birthday every year.) Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 6 13:28:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA19440 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 13:28:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA03416; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 12:46:45 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA20310 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 12:46:15 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from scl-ims.phoenix.com (scl-ims.phoenix.com [134.122.1.73]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA20277 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 12:46:10 -0700 (MST) Received: by scl-ims.phoenix.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 11:45:36 -0800 Message-ID: <1F176F2C2977D311B3300090270E637841AD7D@scl-exch.phoenix.com> From: Cynthia Barnes To: "H-Costume (E-mail)" Subject: H-COST: 3 or more colored brocades in Europe before 1600? Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 11:45:43 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cynthia Barnes Julie said> One thing to be careful of is popularity and fashion in period, and just because it was possible, doesn't mean a particular pattern or color combination was worn as clothing. By the pictoral evidence I have, I would say that 3 or more colored brocades in Europe became much more popular after 1600, though there seemed to be a brief fad in the late 15th c Italy. For the most part, I agree w/ you. However, I note that popularity and price rather go hand in hand. Not all evidence is pictographic. Here's a tasty citation from 1416 describing a 3 fibre brocade. "Item for the fashioning and fabrics of a black satin pourpoint w/ grandes assiettes to go with said houppelande (black brocaded with fine silver & figured with green silk) made of three fine black and white fabrics, made of silk II escuz.[T1] " From accounts published in _Les Ducs de Bourgoyne_, L de Laborde, no. 440; I dont know what the abbreviation "escuz." is. Unit of money? --cin Cynthia Barnes 408.570.1023 Cynthia_Barnes@phoenix.com Phoenix Technologies 411 E. Plumeria Dr. San Jose CA 95134 "I think animal testing is a terrible idea; they get all nervous and give the wrong answers." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 6 13:38:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA19459 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 13:38:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05145; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 12:55:56 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA01437 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 12:55:37 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01390 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 12:55:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA01688 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 14:55:33 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 14:55:30 -0500 (EST) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Kidstuff was (Authenticity Enforcers) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kevin & Mara Riley On Sun, 5 Dec 1999, Julie Adams wrote: > But still I often bring out other items which are not 100% period, like if > we are at an SCA event over 3 days, I will bring out my plastic high chair > for feeding times inside the pavilion, just because it contains the mess of > my youngest who will otherwise scatter food everywhere... (grin) But that's what dogs are for -- to eat all those scraps, and lick baby's face clean afterwards! Why else would our ancestors have kept lots and lots of dogs underfoot (and under the table)? Ok, I'll stop the silliness now... _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 6 14:09:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19494 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 14:09:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA07999; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 13:13:28 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA10572 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 13:13:05 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ntserver1.mainsaver.com ([206.17.202.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10548 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 13:13:02 -0700 (MST) Received: by HP-LH3 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 12:04:20 -0800 Message-ID: <5B38B8D7EED8D211997F00A0C9E57FB91DB674@HP-LH3> From: MAGGIE SECARA To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: brocades, history, etcl Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 12:04:19 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MAGGIE SECARA > ---------- > From: Ron Carnegie[SMTP:rcarnegie@widomaker.com] > Reply To: h-costume@indra.com > Sent: Sunday, December 05, 1999 6:13 AM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: brocades, history, etcl > > > -Poster: Ron Carnegie > > That is what people miss. It is far more impressive that > technology > has given us machines that CAN do work priviously only done by hand. I > work > for the museum mentioned in Maggie's quote, and we get questions doubting > that something can be done or existed in the period all the time. Rarely > is > it about anything that is even NEW in the 18th century. (I was informed > while locked in an original gaol cell last thursday that there was no > METAL > in the 18th century! Not only were we well into the iron age, but the > iron > he mentioned dated from the period!!. > My turn to fall off the chair! What were all those Napoleanic cannons made out of then, one wonders. And y'know, swords? Give me strength. That's up there with "Is that a real fire?" MaggiRos _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 6 14:20:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19502 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 14:20:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12778; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 13:38:15 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA05011 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 13:38:07 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ntserver1.mainsaver.com ([206.17.202.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA04945 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 13:38:03 -0700 (MST) Received: by HP-LH3 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 12:29:21 -0800 Message-ID: <5B38B8D7EED8D211997F00A0C9E57FB91DB676@HP-LH3> From: MAGGIE SECARA To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Restoration London Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 12:29:18 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MAGGIE SECARA I meant to refer to the costume section particularly, of course :) However, any other observations will be valuable as well. MaggiRos > ---------- > From: MAGGIE SECARA[SMTP:SECARAM@mainsaver.com] > Reply To: h-costume@indra.com > Sent: Monday, December 06, 1999 12:25 PM > To: 'H-Costume' > Subject: H-COST: Restoration London > > > -Poster: MAGGIE SECARA > > My dears-- > > I suppose I should have asked BEFORE buying the book, but now that I have > it > I really must ask: Does anyone know anything/have an opinion about > "Restoration London" by Liza Picard? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 6 14:22:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19508 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 14:22:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12158; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 13:34:52 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA00941 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 13:34:13 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ntserver1.mainsaver.com ([206.17.202.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00820 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 13:34:03 -0700 (MST) Received: by HP-LH3 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 12:25:11 -0800 Message-ID: <5B38B8D7EED8D211997F00A0C9E57FB91DB675@HP-LH3> From: MAGGIE SECARA To: "'H-Costume'" Subject: H-COST: Restoration London Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 12:25:07 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MAGGIE SECARA My dears-- I suppose I should have asked BEFORE buying the book, but now that I have it I really must ask: Does anyone know anything/have an opinion about "Restoration London" by Liza Picard? It's a book of little details sort of like "What Jane Austen Ate, What Charles Dickens Knew" or whichever way it goes, grouped by category and largely gleaned from Pepys' diaries. Every now and then I run across something I think sounds "off" but it's not my period really, so I don't like to trust that first reaction alone. Anyone? Cheers! MaggiRos > Mary Countess of Southampton (RPF ret.) > Clara Munter, the Sojer's Friend (Corona, CA) > Mairghread-Ros FitzGarrett of Desmond (O.L. Caid) > and sometimes even > Maggie Secara > http://ren.dm.net (recommended ** by britannica.com) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 6 14:54:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19567 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 14:54:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA18815; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 14:08:21 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA23197 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 14:08:12 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from m8.boston.juno.com (m8.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.196]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA23176 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 14:08:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m8.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id ES7D7V44; Mon, 06 Dec 1999 16:06:57 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Authenticity "Enforcers" Message-ID: <19991206.124153.4783.2.cley@juno.com> References: <199912060533.WAA06147@net.indra.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3-7 From: cynthia j ley Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 16:06:57 EST Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: cynthia j ley Whaddya mean, no pink? 8) Check in the Duc de Berry's Books of Hours (any of them). You'll find a beautiful pink being used as a clothing color. Arlys ___________________________________________________________________ Why pay more to get Web access? Try Juno for FREE -- then it's just $9.95/month if you act NOW! Get your free software today: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 6 14:57:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19571 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 14:56:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA18168; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 14:04:57 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA22047 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 14:04:46 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA22033 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 14:04:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from great-hal (ip252.toronto.dialup.canada.psi.net [154.11.96.252]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA12424 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 16:04:41 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 16:04:41 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19991206160901.46074a7a@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: msmclean@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: "Marsha S. McLean" Subject: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #831, Kid's SCA clothing Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Marsha S. McLean" My then 2 year old son ONCE staunchly refused to change at an event. He WOULD NOT consider it on any terms. Now, this kid had been better dressed at events than the average peer form day one, so this was not a normal thing. So, considering that a happy kid in sweats was MUCH more appealing than a well dressed unhappy kid, I left the matter. This also avoided future problems. Well. This kicked up a furor of epic porportions. Folks were /purportedly/ talking about violations of corpora. I was, naturally, very offended. Turns out, no-one other than the individual who mentioned it to me had heard anything about this. My point is that we must do our best within reason, and anyone who objects politely is /welcome/ to make my son a new wardrobe; ill mannered rudesbys might be invited to bite a rude portion of my anatomy. I am certainly devoted to authenticity, but for myself. I will happily give advice to any who /ask/. I consider it the height of bad manners to presume to criticize unasked. Besides, as Lady Tudor Glitz was told "telling people something isn't period isn't period". I really wish that people would get their heads out of dark brown places and get lives. mm (great milennial initials, non?) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 6 15:19:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA19598 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 15:19:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA21565; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 14:22:17 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA27373 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 14:22:07 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ntserver1.mainsaver.com ([206.17.202.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA27357 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 14:22:05 -0700 (MST) Received: by HP-LH3 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 13:13:22 -0800 Message-ID: <5B38B8D7EED8D211997F00A0C9E57FB91DB678@HP-LH3> From: MAGGIE SECARA To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Authenticity "Enforcers" Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 13:13:18 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MAGGIE SECARA No one said there WAS no pink. They said we couldn't WEAR pink. Actually, they said no pastels. One group or another (military? maybe others, not the Court) said don't wear pink. This was a theatrical decision, nothing more, like reserving purple for the queen, even tho the queen at RPF North and South (California) hasn't worn purple in years. The audience percieves that anyone wearing purple is royalty, and they don't want to confuse things. It's a theatrical decision they (the Faire) were not required to defend, it being their show. I'm not sure what the ban on pink (except when legitimately faded from red) was about; possibly just to maintain the manly manliness of the soldiery. On the other hand, I have a seal brown "Cranach" dress which skirt is completely lined in a sort of salmon pink faille and no one ever cared. Pity it no longer fits. MaggiRos > ---------- > From: cynthia j ley[SMTP:cley@juno.com] > Reply To: h-costume@indra.com > Sent: Monday, December 06, 1999 1:06 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Cc: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: Authenticity "Enforcers" > > > -Poster: cynthia j ley > > Whaddya mean, no pink? 8) > > Check in the Duc de Berry's Books of Hours (any of them). You'll find a > beautiful pink being used as a clothing color. > > > > Arlys > > ___________________________________________________________________ > Why pay more to get Web access? > Try Juno for FREE -- then it's just $9.95/month if you act NOW! > Get your free software today: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 6 15:22:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA19608 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 15:22:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA23980; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 14:35:36 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA01301 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 14:35:07 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA01269 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 14:35:04 -0700 (MST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.d37a5478 (3864) for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 16:34:31 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.d37a5478.257d85e6@aol.com> Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 16:34:30 EST Subject: H-COST: A dying silk question To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 44 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com Greetings all, I just bought 3 bolts of plaid silk taffeta. Each has 12 to 15 yards on it. The price at the rummage sale was right... $10 a bolt!!!!! Why so cheap? because the plaid is ORANGE! ... I mean electric orange....and black and yellow on a white ground. Now I know they can be dipped to kill and change the colors to a more acceptable combination. My question is: what to use? I'm not a dyer but I use to be dye master for the local Shakespeare Festival years ago. All we ever used was Tintex or Rit. All that's available here is Rit or Dylon cold dye. In fact I just happen to have about 6 little packages of Dylon in "Moon Blue"...a pale grey/blue. I thought I'd use it to tint a length of this orange plait silk. What do ya think? I can follow the directions and do enough for a dress. I thought I'd dip some other lengths in different tints...mint green or a purple-brown. Is there another dye I could use to get good results on a 6 or 7 yard length. I only have a stove, hot plates, wash tubs, and a washing machine for equipment. Should I stick with cold water or just [as I have in the past] use hot water & Rit? Rit is fine for stage but I'd hate to make something, sell it and then have it fade! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 6 15:28:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA19619 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 15:28:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA24807; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 14:40:25 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA02629 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 14:39:47 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.xmission.com (mail.xmission.com [198.60.22.22]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA02619 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 14:39:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from [166.70.12.200] (helo=[166.70.12.200]) by mail.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 3.03 #3) id 11v5rB-0006k9-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 06 Dec 1999 14:39:42 -0700 X-Sender: Francesca.da.Bari@pop.netaddress.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <384BCB38.7036B71D@home.com> References: <0.3c9af502.257d1b12@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 14:52:11 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Karalee Larsen Pugmire Subject: Re: H-COST: tshirt t-tunics Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Karalee Larsen Pugmire I guess I'm lucky. My daughter, who changes clothing three or four times a day loves her SCA garb. Frankly I can't get her out of it. I've had to close my eyes and just take her places because I didn't have time for the battle of changing into modern clothes. I have fun using her for a barbie to try out new designs. At first I couldn't get head dresses on her but lately she's begun showing real interest in wearing mine so I'm planning on making her several things like padded rolls and such that can be taken off easily, adjusted and then primped in front of a mirror by an extremely independent high functioning autistic child. Francesca da Bari Cote du Ciel (Logan, Utah) Francesca.da.Bari _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 6 16:43:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA19769 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 16:43:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA09239; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 15:58:52 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA24940 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 15:57:42 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from post1.inre.asu.edu (post1.inre.asu.edu [129.219.13.100]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24930 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 15:57:40 -0700 (MST) From: KATHLEEN.MAHER@asu.edu Received: from general3.asu.edu (general3.asu.edu [129.219.10.157]) by asu.edu (PMDF V5.2-31 #31135) with ESMTP id <0FMC00515C99VH@asu.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 15:39:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by general3.asu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA10410 for ; Mon, 06 Dec 1999 15:39:06 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 15:39:05 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: H-COST: A dying silk question In-reply-to: <0.d37a5478.257d85e6@aol.com> X-Sender: innana@general3.asu.edu To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: KATHLEEN.MAHER@asu.edu On Mon, 6 Dec 1999 AlbertCat@AOL.COM wrote: > The price at the rummage sale was right... $10 a bolt!!!!! Why so cheap? > because the plaid is ORANGE! ... I mean electric orange....and black and > yellow on a white ground. Why dye it? From your description it sounds absolutely perfect for mid-19th century clothing. If you don't think you can face looking at the fabric long enough to make something out of it, you could easily sell the fabric to people who do that period. -Katie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 6 17:06:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA19830 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 17:06:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA12696; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 16:24:28 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA02438 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 16:24:21 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from m2.jersey.juno.com (m2.jersey.juno.com [209.67.34.60]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02430 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 16:24:19 -0700 (MST) Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.jersey.juno.com (queuemail) id ES7MV2TH; Mon, 06 Dec 1999 18:21:23 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 17:18:21 -0600 Subject: Re: H-COST: Authenticity "Enforcers" Message-ID: <19991206.172012.-245251.0.seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.13 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3,6-29 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Karen R Bergquist Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Karen R Bergquist Not only was there pink, the Elizabethans had a number of descriptive names for it. There's carnation, incarnate, 'devil in the hedge', peach flower, soppes-in-wine, maiden's blush, Catherine pear, gingerline, and my personal favorite-lusty gallant! A snark might argue that paints and pigments have faded thru time ( not necessarily true) but if they called something 'maiden's blush' I think that a definite pink tone is being described! Karen On Mon, 06 Dec 1999 16:06:57 EST cynthia j ley writes: > > -Poster: cynthia j ley > > Whaddya mean, no pink? 8) > > Check in the Duc de Berry's Books of Hours (any of them). You'll > find a > beautiful pink being used as a clothing color. > > > > Arlys > ___________________________________________________________________ > Why pay more to get Web access? Try Juno for FREE -- then it's just > $9.95/month if you act NOW! Get your free software today: > http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with > the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 6 17:57:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA19912 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 17:57:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA18909; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 17:14:43 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA14946 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 17:14:09 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA14935 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 17:14:08 -0700 (MST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.cc772be9 (4357) for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 19:13:31 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.cc772be9.257dab2a@aol.com> Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 19:13:30 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: A dying silk question To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 45 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AnnBWass@aol.com You probably risk harming the crisp finish of the silk, especially if you use hot water. The moon blue might give you an all-over muted look, but it depends on how bright that orange is. The mint green sounds to me like it would give you an all-over muddy look. I opt for not dyeing it, either. By the way, are you sure it's silk? It could be acetate, in which case all the caveats of dyeing still apply. Ann Wass _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 6 18:00:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA19918 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 18:00:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA19392; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 17:17:38 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA15958 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 17:17:34 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1 ([204.86.241.250]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA15941 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 17:17:31 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail1 with MERCUR-SMTP/POP3/IMAP4-Server (v3.00.28 AS-1409036) for at Mon, 6 Dec 1999 15:35:08 -0800 Received: by HHSMAIL with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 15:43:56 -0800 Message-ID: <1D0F5BB98E98D311B17E0008C75D0B3A03EC23@HHSMAIL> From: "Bergdahl, Stephen" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: A dying silk question Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 15:43:55 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Bergdahl, Stephen" I have to agree with Kathleen. It sounds just lovely at it is. And I would be more than will to take a bolt off your hands. Stephen Bergdahl - madly@2xtreme.net -----Original Message----- From: KATHLEEN.MAHER@asu.edu [mailto:KATHLEEN.MAHER@asu.edu] Sent: Monday, December 06, 1999 2:39 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: A dying silk question -Poster: KATHLEEN.MAHER@asu.edu On Mon, 6 Dec 1999 AlbertCat@AOL.COM wrote: > The price at the rummage sale was right... $10 a bolt!!!!! Why so cheap? > because the plaid is ORANGE! ... I mean electric orange....and black and > yellow on a white ground. Why dye it? From your description it sounds absolutely perfect for mid-19th century clothing. If you don't think you can face looking at the fabric long enough to make something out of it, you could easily sell the fabric to people who do that period. -Katie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 6 18:12:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA19933 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 18:12:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA20596; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 17:26:33 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA17809 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 17:26:24 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from anarchy.io.com (anarchy.io.com [199.170.88.101]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA17799 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 17:26:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from dragon (as1-dialup-119.io.com [206.224.82.119]) by anarchy.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA19342 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 18:26:16 -0600 Message-Id: <199912070026.SAA19342@anarchy.io.com> From: "Amanda Reeves" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: tshirt t-tunics Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 18:30:06 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Amanda Reeves" Well, my two youngest sons (13 & 8) have been wearing great kilts for 2 years now. Even though they get sorta "messed up" just by being boys, they still love to put them on. We've gotten real good at it and they stay pretty secure for most of the day now. I'm sure they're not authentic, but you can't beat the extra large safety pins (of-course, we put them where they can't be seen). Amanda ---------- > From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: tshirt t-tunics > Date: Monday, December 06, 1999 1:25 PM > > > -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > > > >Most of the parents I've talked to who's kids aren't dressed (most of > >them aren't making *any* kind of attempt) say "well, kids won't wear > >this kind of stuff"... usually while my kids in garb (her in chemise & > >irish, him in t-tunic & tights or tight sweatpants or nothing depending > >on the season) are standing right beside me. > > My younger kid bugged me for a new dress for half the run of Faire this > year. She's 11 and it's her 3rd year as a card-carrying participant. > She's the one who took over the family dress-up box. Her older sister > couldn't be bothered by all this costume stuff, so I take her to shop at > the retro fashion places in 'The Haight' instead. Her 'period' is retro > 60's-70's. > > (The Haight is the 90's term for the Haight-Ashberry district in San > Francisco, made famous by the Hippies in the 60's. These days it is mostly > cool little restaurants and cappuccino joints, several retro clothing > shops, a few little bookstores, some leftover "head shops", one > full-service Drag Queen outfitter, two really amazing cloth stores, and one > bead store. My older kid and I spend all day there for her birthday every > year.) > > > Kayta > ////.\\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ((( > | -- )))) > * ) ((((( > /----\ /---\ > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 6 19:11:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA20001 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 19:11:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA28379; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 18:29:30 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA06960 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 18:29:17 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from whirlwind.netspace.net.au (whirlwind.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.70]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA06930 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 18:29:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from netspace.net.au.netspace.net.au (dialup-t1-102.Melbourne.netspace.net.au [210.15.250.102]) by whirlwind.netspace.net.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/NS) with ESMTP id MAA28642 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 12:28:58 +1100 (EST) Message-Id: <199912070128.MAA28642@whirlwind.netspace.net.au> From: "Christopher Ballis" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Slow out there or is something wrong? Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 12:04:52 +1100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Christopher Ballis" > I am not over informed about holidays in the colonies though . I was led to > believe that the Oztraleans had Christmas in the Summer , however a friend > visitted last June and saw no signs whatsoever. Yes, we do it in summer and a wonderful time is had with all that cooked meat, cooked vegetables, cooked puddings and heavy fruit cakes followed with hot custard dishes, and all the other trimmings you may expect at Christmas - and all this in 100 degrees Farenhiet. Hmmm! Oh, there is one concession to the weather, cards featuring Father Christmas in his red hat and board shorts out surfing. > The quietness from the UK is due to the national baited breath of despair as > it seems that our Queen Mother is likely to reach 100 long before any of our > batsmen. Hell, the Queen Mother will hit the double century before the batsmen make 100. -C. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 6 19:12:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA20005 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 19:12:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA28384; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 18:29:30 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA06959 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 18:29:16 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from whirlwind.netspace.net.au (whirlwind.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.70]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA06931 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 18:29:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from netspace.net.au.netspace.net.au (dialup-t1-102.Melbourne.netspace.net.au [210.15.250.102]) by whirlwind.netspace.net.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/NS) with ESMTP id MAA28669 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 12:29:01 +1100 (EST) Message-Id: <199912070129.MAA28669@whirlwind.netspace.net.au> From: "Christopher Ballis" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: bees Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 12:14:07 +1100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Christopher Ballis" > << 300 gold bees on the Merovignian coronation robe >> > > Could you please be so kind as to post the reference for this information? I > would appreciate it very much. Thanks. Will do (as soon as I can damned well find it in my mess of books!). -C. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 6 19:15:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA20009 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 19:15:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA27052; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 18:16:26 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA04446 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 18:16:00 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA04440 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 18:15:58 -0700 (MST) From: Hhdunlap@aol.com Received: from Hhdunlap@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.6e245599 (3988) for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 20:15:24 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.6e245599.257db9ac@aol.com> Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 20:15:24 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: sewing machine advice requested. To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows sub 32 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Hhdunlap@aol.com I like my Elna 9000. It's a lot less money than the Bernina and other top end brands, but does the same stuff. It feels more delicate than my old 40's vintage Singer, but I like the ease with which I can do so many stitches, buttonholes, darning, overlock, embroidery. Feature for feature comparison with Bernina, it does the same, for about 40 less cost, when I purchased it about 4 years ago. Hope _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 6 19:37:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA20067 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 19:37:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA01064; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 18:51:15 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA11048 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 18:51:06 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.8]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA11032 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 18:51:04 -0700 (MST) From: Hhdunlap@aol.com Received: from Hhdunlap@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.76f9422b (4366) for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 20:50:03 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.76f9422b.257dc1ca@aol.com> Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 20:50:02 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: (no subject) To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows sub 32 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Hhdunlap@aol.com Please do make a matching Elizabethan for her doll! When my niece, age 5, asked me for a Barbie many years ago, I threw away the store-bought clothes and created a decent wardrobe for her -- business suit, sportwear skirts, slacks, and tops, a pretty evening gown, a bridal dress made out of an old silk blouse--so she didn't look like a hooker. Pardon me, but 16 years ago, it was inconceivable to me that parents would buy her for their girls. I loved the role of indulgent aunt, but was only willing to go so far! The whole wardrobe, including the little wire hangers I made, is still intact, quite the complement. Old fuddy duddy here . . . . Hope _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 6 20:54:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA20208 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 20:54:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA09938; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 20:12:52 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA24540 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 20:12:42 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA24530 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 20:12:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.230.186] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11vB3M-00018d-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 19:12:37 -0800 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 19:08:34 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: tshirt t-tunics In-Reply-To: <199912070026.SAA19342@anarchy.io.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 06:30 PM 12/06/1999 -0600, you wrote: > >-Poster: "Amanda Reeves" > >Well, my two youngest sons (13 & 8) have been wearing great kilts for 2 >years now. Even though they get sorta "messed up" just by being boys, they >still love to put them on. We've gotten real good at it and they stay >pretty secure for most of the day now. I'm sure they're not authentic, but >you can't beat the extra large safety pins (of-course, we put them where >they can't be seen). > >Amanda > But 'safety pins', or pins similar, have been in use since Roman times, at the least...Carol, remembering that from my Latin class days... _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 6 20:55:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA20221 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 20:55:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA10062; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 20:14:13 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA24786 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 20:14:09 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.50]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA24777 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 20:14:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from camelot (ip32.houston21.tx.pub-ip.psi.net [38.31.109.32]) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA14703 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 19:14:05 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <03b801bf4060$f22c70a0$a46c1f26@camelot> From: "Diane M. Mathews" To: References: <2.2.16.19991204145823.4157b7ea@mail2.quiknet.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: Q E's Wardrobe Unlock'd Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 21:12:48 -0600 Organization: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Diane M. Mathews" How did you ever get it ordered ? All I have ever been able to get from them is that it is not in their catelog yet they do give a price and state that it is a special order. Is there some secret to doing their special orders ? Diane ----- Original Message ----- From: Joan M Jurancich To: Sent: Saturday, December 04, 1999 4:58 PM Subject: H-COST: Q E's Wardrobe Unlock'd > > -Poster: Joan M Jurancich > > Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd *is* available through Amazon.co.uk!! My > copy is in the mail... I ordered it on 30 Oct and it was shipped on 26 Nov > (the day my credit card was charged) via Royal Mail. Price, with air mail > shipping from the UK, was GBP79.95, which translated to US$129.81, a bargain > in my book. Now all I need to do is wait until it arrives... > > Joan Jurancich > Sacramento, CA > joanj@quiknet.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 6 21:48:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA20318 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 21:48:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA16499; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 21:07:01 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA04080 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 21:06:58 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from raq.dnsworld.de ([212.98.68.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA04071 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 21:06:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from default (dialin-118.aachen.okay.net [194.117.250.118]) by raq.dnsworld.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id FAA15739 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 05:06:54 +0100 Message-Id: <199912070406.FAA15739@raq.dnsworld.de> From: "Marquis de Kipar" Organization: L'Age d'Or To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 05:08:17 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: H-COST: Re: Restoration London Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Marquis de Kipar" Congratulations on the book! > I suppose I should have asked BEFORE buying the book, but now that I have it > I really must ask: Does anyone know anything/have an opinion about > "Restoration London" by Liza Picard? It is just absolutely fantastic!!! One of the ever best books I have seen so far on the late 17th century, admittedly, the 1660s. Wonderful, lovely, my bible. Picard isn't a historian, but a lawyer, and thus all the wonderful 'evidence' is there. Everyday life from brushing one's teeth to monthly hygiene over clothes to statsitics and god knows what else. It's a book of little details sort of > like "What Jane Austen Ate, What Charles Dickens Knew" or whichever way it > goes, grouped by category and largely gleaned from Pepys' diaries. Every and of course John Evelyn as well, and Hutchinson. > now and then I run across something I think sounds "off" but it's not my > period really, so I don't like to trust that first reaction alone. Do trust this book. *nods* What might sound "off" to you is not off, but the truth. I have a very large and tall bookshelf from the floor to the ceiling with almost exclusively books on the late 17th century Baroque period, I live and breathe for the French and English Baroque ;-), and Picard has researched her book extremely well. Plus she almost always gives the source for her facts, which means no arguing with her, because it was written down by contemporaries. *S* It's my period, really, and I highly recommend the book to everyone interested in the period. Around 8 pounds sterling. Nicole ************************ N. Kipar Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs French and English Baroque http://www.kipar.org/ *Vel Exuviae Triumphant* *Triumphant Even In Adversity* marquis@kipar.org _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 6 21:48:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA20312 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 21:48:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA16427; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 21:06:43 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA03987 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 21:06:23 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from raq.dnsworld.de ([212.98.68.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA03979 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 21:06:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from default (dialin-118.aachen.okay.net [194.117.250.118]) by raq.dnsworld.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id FAA15733 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 05:06:08 +0100 Message-Id: <199912070406.FAA15733@raq.dnsworld.de> From: "Marquis de Kipar" Organization: L'Age d'Or To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 05:07:31 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: H-COST: Re: bees Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Marquis de Kipar" > > Could you please be so kind as to post the reference for this > information? I > > would appreciate it very much. Thanks. I don't know about 'coronation robes' but in King Childerich's grave (died 481), which was a huge grave arrangement, with hill and everything and horse graves arranged around his grave chamber, there were found these gold bees. The grave was opened in the 18th century, and unfortunately most of the gold artefacts (there were innumerable ones) were stolen from the archaeologists and molten down. Thus only (fortunately very detailed and accurate) coloured engravings of all the finds remain. The bees must have been beautiful. But Childerich was dressed in late Roman-Germanic dress and weapons, a combination. An extensive discussion of the grave and the finds, as well as the 18th century engravings of the bees can be found in the two volume German exhibition catalogue 'the Franks' from a touring large exhibition in the 90s. Nicole ************************ N. Kipar Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs French and English Baroque http://www.kipar.org/ *Vel Exuviae Triumphant* *Triumphant Even In Adversity* marquis@kipar.org _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 6 22:41:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA20465 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 22:40:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA22317; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 21:59:23 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA12216 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 21:58:51 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA12209 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 21:58:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from test (ip207.toronto6.dialup.canada.psi.net [154.5.72.207]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA05884 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 23:58:47 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19991207000035.0094f7c0@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 00:00:35 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: RE: H-COST: A dying silk question In-Reply-To: <1D0F5BB98E98D311B17E0008C75D0B3A03EC23@HHSMAIL> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >I have to agree with Kathleen. It sounds just lovely at it is. And I would >be more than will to take a bolt off your hands. Orange is my favorite colour! I would buy a bolt from you!. Cheers, Danielle dnunn@interlog.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 6 22:43:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA20487 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 22:43:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA23009; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 22:02:37 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA13341 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 22:02:35 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp7.atl.mindspring.net (smtp7.atl.mindspring.net [207.69.128.51]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA13326 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 22:02:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from oemcomputer (user-2ivegit.dialup.mindspring.com [165.247.66.93]) by smtp7.atl.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA20589 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 00:02:26 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19991207000217.00735be0@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: gunstonian@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 00:02:17 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Laurie L. Kittle" Subject: H-COST: Nails -- An Urban Legend In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Laurie L. Kittle" At 10:25 AM 12/6/99 +0000, you wrote: > >-Poster: "KATE M BUNTING" >Kate Bunting >Library, University of Derby > >>>> Someone >told one of the Docents that the wood floor was "wrong" because they had >used nails. After a few minutes of conversion it became clear that there >was no getting through to this guy that nails are period for most of >history. She just looked him in the eye, and told him, "Your right sir. >They screwed Jesus to the cross!" It still makes me laugh to thing about >it. ><<< >An American friend now resident in the UK claims to have made a similar retort to a fellow-visitor to (I think) an American Civil War battlefield, who asserted that nails were not available then. I heard this one, too. Except it was an interpreter at Valley Forge Historical Park and he got fired for this response to an incredulous tourist. Laurie Kittle Alexandria, VA _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 6 22:43:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA20491 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 22:43:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA22923; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 22:02:18 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA13271 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 22:02:14 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from pop1.cyberhighway.net (pop1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.35]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA13263 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 22:02:12 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199912070502.WAA13263@net.indra.com> Received: (qmail 28745 invoked from network); 6 Dec 1999 22:02:10 -0700 Received: from ts25-22.boi.cyberhighway.net (HELO kathy) (209.161.11.37) by pop1.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 6 Dec 1999 22:02:10 -0700 From: "K & J Hopkins" To: Subject: H-COST: Pink Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 22:12:31 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "K & J Hopkins" When I first started playing with the SCA I was told "No Pink!. So this isn't just coming from a Ren Faire angle. Or maybe it is and it has filtered into the SCA. And I have a personal theory. No historical precedent, no documentation, just my own fevered imagination. One summer night about 9:00 PM, I was driving back to Boise from an event in Jerome, Idaho. That means I would be traveling west into the sunset. As I am driving along, the sun is just slipping out from below the clouds of a small thunderstorm to behind the horizon, off to the left is a curtain of rain, with lightning striking in the center. The curtain of rain is neon/dayglow pink, the clouds are white, black and the sky behind them is every shade of vibrant pink and orange that one could imagine. Right then and there I decided, that if a color occurred in nature, then man would try and reproduce it. And there it was, no doubt about it, neon/dayglow pink and orange. So, unless it is a color not found in nature, (I can't think of any myself) I will always be skeptical when someone tells me that a color isn't period. Admittedly the color may not be appropriate for certain times and places, but that doesn't mean it didn't exist. Because I am sure that somewhere, sometime in the past, others saw the same colors I did and admired them enough to recreate them. Kathlene _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 6 23:04:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA20511 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 23:04:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA24891; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 22:21:32 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA16283 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 22:21:10 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.36]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA16274 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 22:21:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([63.15.239.57]) by mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19991207052036.TGCJ2272@worldnet.att.net> for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 05:20:36 +0000 Message-ID: <384C9975.2DC0D24B@worldnet.att.net> Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 21:21:57 -0800 From: don and carolyn richardson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-WNS5.0 (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Restoration London References: <199912070406.FAA15739@raq.dnsworld.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: don and carolyn richardson Marquis de Kipar wrote: > > -Poster: "Marquis de Kipar" > > Congratulations on the book! > > > I suppose I should have asked BEFORE buying the book, but now that I have it > > I really must ask: Does anyone know anything/have an opinion about > > "Restoration London" by Liza Picard? > > It is just absolutely fantastic!!! One of the ever best books I have > seen so far on the late 17th century, admittedly, the 1660s. I agree. I'd read a review of it in the LA times about 2 years ago but couldn't get the book here in the states, so when I went to England last year in May, I bought it there and read it in the week we were on a tour of north England and Scotland. I thought it was terrific. > Wonderful, lovely, my bible. Picard isn't a historian, but a lawyer, > and thus all the wonderful 'evidence' is there. Everyday life from > brushing one's teeth to monthly hygiene over clothes to statsitics and > god knows what else. > > It's a book of little details sort of > > like "What Jane Austen Ate, What Charles Dickens Knew" or whichever way it > > goes, grouped by category and largely gleaned from Pepys' diaries. Every True, but what's the objection? Pepys *did* live in the period - if he doesn't know what he's talking about who does? And Picard's research was all based on original sources from what I understand from the review I read. Hardly any of it, if any, was based on secondary accounts. It was a fascinating read. Carolyn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 6 23:15:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA20527 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 23:15:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA25821; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 22:32:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA17884 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 22:32:25 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mx.serv.net (mx.serv.net [205.153.153.234]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA17875 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 22:32:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from gia-g (dialup308.serv.net [207.207.70.201]) by mx.serv.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id VAA13324; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 21:32:02 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <002101bf4074$160b8160$c946cfcf@gia-g> From: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" To: "Merouda" , "Steps" , "The Reeds" , "Mistress Isolde" , "Julian and Arianne" , "Laurellen" , "Andrew and Fiamma" , , "Costume List" Subject: H-COST: Ursalmas Fashion Show Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 21:29:46 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001E_01BF4031.04BAF640" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01BF4031.04BAF640 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greetings one and all! The Aquaterra Costumers Guild invites one and all to display their = wonderful clothing in the Known World Fashion Show that will be occuring = during Ursalmas. For those not in the in the SCA, Ursalmas is an annual event that occurs = indoors at the Everegreen Fairgrounds, in Monroe Washington during the = last weekend (Friday - Sunday) of January, which is the 28th, 29th, = 30th. (The Barony of Aquaterra in in the Kingdom of An Tir, for those = in other Kingdoms) The Known World Fashion Show is open to any and all people to wear and = show their garb (within the SCA timeframe of 600 - 1650 *50 years either = way - depending on who you talk to*) but do not like to do = competitions. This is just for fun! =20 The link below provides the web site for the event and the form to = complete online (or print out and snail mail to me). http://www.aquaterra.antir.sca.org/ursulmas/index.html Please come and enjoy the festivities! I have been commissioned by the = Aquaterra Guildmistress, HL Fiamma the Unquenchable, to bring my = costuming library (small one *ha*) for consultation. If you, or someone = you know, wants to do some research, please let me know and I'll see if = I can either find or bring a book to assist. I will be sitting at the = Consulting table most (and Merouda some of the time) of the event, and = hope to meet many of the wonderful people I have "met" online! =20 Please feel free to forward this information to anyone who would be = interested or any list that would be appropriate. Gia/Giacinta costuming nut ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01BF4031.04BAF640 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Greetings one and all!
 
The Aquaterra Costumers Guild invites one and all to display their=20 wonderful clothing in the Known World Fashion Show that will be occuring = during=20 Ursalmas.
 
For those not in the in the SCA, Ursalmas is an annual event that = occurs=20 indoors at the Everegreen Fairgrounds, in Monroe Washington during the = last=20 weekend (Friday - Sunday) of January, which is the 28th, 29th, = 30th.  (The=20 Barony of Aquaterra in in the Kingdom of An Tir, for those in other=20 Kingdoms)
 
The Known World Fashion Show is open to any and all people to wear = and show=20 their garb (within the SCA timeframe of 600 - 1650 *50 years either way = -=20 depending on who you talk to*)  but do not like to do = competitions. =20 This is just for fun! 
 
The link below provides the web site for the event and the form to = complete=20 online (or print out and snail mail to me).
 
http://ww= w.aquaterra.antir.sca.org/ursulmas/index.html
 
Please come and enjoy the festivities!  = I have=20 been commissioned by the Aquaterra Guildmistress, HL Fiamma the = Unquenchable, to=20 bring my costuming library (small one *ha*) for consultation.  If = you, or=20 someone you know, wants to do some research, please let me know and I'll = see if=20 I can either find or bring a book to assist.  I will be sitting at = the=20 Consulting table most (and Merouda some of the time) of the event, and = hope to=20 meet many of the wonderful people I have "met" online! =20
 
Please feel free to forward this information = to anyone=20 who would be interested or any list that would be = appropriate.
 
Gia/Giacinta
costuming nut
 
------=_NextPart_000_001E_01BF4031.04BAF640-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 6 23:18:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA20532 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 23:18:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA26137; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 22:36:17 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA18281 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 22:35:33 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA18276 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 22:35:32 -0700 (MST) From: SNSpies@aol.com Received: from SNSpies@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.6d661e5d (4242) for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 00:34:56 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.6d661e5d.257df680@aol.com> Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 00:34:56 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: bees To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 38 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: SNSpies@aol.com << > << 300 gold bees on the Merovignian coronation robe >> > > Could you please be so kind as to post the reference for this information? I > would appreciate it very much. Thanks. << Will do (as soon as I can damned well find it in my mess of books!). >> Chris, you mentioned that you thought there was a Merovingian statue in Boucher that showed this. However, I've just been through Boucher twice and couldn't find it. I'll look forward to being pointed in the right direction, when you have time, of course. Thanks. Nancy _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 6 23:20:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA20544 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 23:20:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA26471; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 22:39:44 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA18889 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 22:39:40 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA18884 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 22:39:38 -0700 (MST) From: SNSpies@aol.com Received: from SNSpies@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.62171ae1 (4242) for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 00:39:04 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.62171ae1.257df778@aol.com> Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 00:39:04 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: bees To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 38 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: SNSpies@aol.com Thanks for all the info, Nicole. Do you happen to have the full citation for this 2-volume exhibition catalogue? Sometimes interlibrary loan can surprise me! Thanks. << An extensive discussion of the grave and the finds, as well as the 18th century engravings of the bees can be found in the two volume German exhibition catalogue 'the Franks' from a touring large exhibition in the 90s. >> _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 6 23:22:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA20548 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 23:22:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA26556; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 22:39:56 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA18938 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 22:39:54 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.36]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA18931 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 22:39:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([63.15.239.57]) by mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19991207053921.TLPI2272@worldnet.att.net> for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 05:39:21 +0000 Message-ID: <384C9DDA.89B46E9A@worldnet.att.net> Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 21:40:42 -0800 From: don and carolyn richardson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-WNS5.0 (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: sewing machine advice requested. References: <4.2.0.58.19991205083536.00965d70@pop.farg.uswest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: don and carolyn richardson Kim Baird wrote: > > Some comments on the sewing machine dilemma, from one who has owned 8 > different machines, and 3 sergers: > > Don't buy any Singer that is not black cast iron I think I'd qualify that - don't buy any Singer machine made before 1965. A lot of the 40s, 50s and 60s models came in green, pink, or tan (featherweights came in all 3 I think, as well as white). And I doubt the featherweight reproduction scheduled for the end of the year will be worth the money. Carolyn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 6 23:56:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA20614 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 23:56:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA29652; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 23:15:00 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA23434 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 23:14:36 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sd.znet.com (sd.znet.com [207.167.64.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA23424 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 23:14:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.167.66.9] (sdts10-9.znet.net [207.167.66.9]) by sd.znet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/jjb-sd) with ESMTP id WAA09008 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 22:14:31 -0800 (PST) X-Envelope-From: savaskan@sd.znet.com X-Envelope-To: Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <384B0075.FE07F622@pacbell.net> References: <002301bf3e77$1f98c840$83811a18@dsc.columbus.rr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 21:23:22 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Julie Adams Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Kidstuff was (Authenticity Enforcers) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Julie Adams >-Poster: Dietmar > >Greetings, > >Julie wrote: > >> We also made a wooden portable fence that is set up as a "play yard" >> that looks pretty good (and I have references for similar devices >> for most periods.) > >Well, they used to have a fence until a recent night with a new moon when >someone leaving their camp around midnight tripped and fell right through >it...Sorry Julie. :-( > >Dietmar Hey, you only took out one panel! I was meaning to ask if you were ok...especially since you hadn't posted much. There were some big splinters there... Well, at least bloody costumes would still be period... Julie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 6 23:56:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA20618 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 23:56:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA29681; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 23:15:02 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA23457 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 23:14:42 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sd.znet.com (sd.znet.com [207.167.64.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA23442 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 23:14:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.167.66.9] (sdts10-9.znet.net [207.167.66.9]) by sd.znet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/jjb-sd) with ESMTP id WAA09041 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 22:14:38 -0800 (PST) X-Envelope-From: savaskan@sd.znet.com X-Envelope-To: Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19991206.124153.4783.2.cley@juno.com> References: <199912060533.WAA06147@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 21:53:50 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Julie Adams Subject: Re: H-COST: Authenticity "Enforcers" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Julie Adams >-Poster: cynthia j ley > >Whaddya mean, no pink? 8) > >Check in the Duc de Berry's Books of Hours (any of them). You'll find a >beautiful pink being used as a clothing color. > Somewhere back in the Mists of Time, the Living History Centre (California Renn Faires) decided no pastels based on theatrical? reasons. It eventually was translated to "pink is not period" by the masses. Since then the myth has propagated that pink is not period. I've heard this from SCA folks and others ad nauseum. Its pretty obvious that pink is period, especially when I seen both pink and red clothing in the same painting... and I LOVE the pink and white landknechts... not that I could ever convince my hubby to wear them.. Julie Adams _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 7 00:02:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA20650 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 00:02:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA00498; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 23:20:18 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA24139 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 23:20:14 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from raq.dnsworld.de ([212.98.68.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA24134 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 23:20:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from default (dialin-160.aachen.okay.net [194.117.250.160]) by raq.dnsworld.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA16755 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 07:20:08 +0100 Message-Id: <199912070620.HAA16755@raq.dnsworld.de> From: "Marquis de Kipar" Organization: L'Age d'Or To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 07:21:31 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: bees Priority: normal In-reply-to: <0.62171ae1.257df778@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from Quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id XAA24135 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Marquis de Kipar" > Thanks for all the info, Nicole. Do you happen to have the full citation for > this 2-volume exhibition catalogue? Sometimes interlibrary loan can surprise > me! Thanks. *groans* i just had a quick look at the copies... i didn't copy the title page obviously *thwaps herself* but my boyfriend has the books (yes i know, it's funny, he's english, has those books, i'm german, can read them but don't have them *L*) he's on this list so hopefully he'll read this post. anyway, the title was "Wegbereiter Europas. Die Franken" but I can't remember more... I have to check if I can find the reference.. ah! i just found it at amazon.de *S* http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/ASIN/3805318138/qid=94454737 9/sr=1-33/028-3012395-4071410 "Die Franken. Wegbereiter Europas. Vor 1500 Jahren: König Chlodwig und seine Erben." (1996) Mainz: v. Zabern. ISBN: 3805318138 165 DM (I have no idea if you can get them at amazon.com, nor how much it is, just in case you can't get them via inter libarary loan) I cross my fingers! Nicole ************************ N. Kipar Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs French and English Baroque http://www.kipar.org/ *Vel Exuviae Triumphant* *Triumphant Even In Adversity* marquis@kipar.org _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 7 00:03:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA20658 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 00:03:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA00916; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 23:23:01 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA24546 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 23:22:56 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo23.mx.aol.com (imo23.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.67]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA24537 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 23:22:54 -0700 (MST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.936af310 (4249) for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 01:22:43 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.936af310.257e01b3@aol.com> Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 01:22:43 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: A dying silk question To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 44 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 12/07/1999 12:01:29 AM Eastern Standard Time, dnunn@interlog.com writes: << Orange is my favorite colour! I would buy a bolt from you!. >> E-mail me. but.....don't expect $10 a bolt! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 7 00:08:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA20668 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 00:08:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA00644; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 23:21:15 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA24291 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 23:21:09 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA24273 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 23:21:07 -0700 (MST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.122f1691 (4249) for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 01:20:28 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.122f1691.257e012c@aol.com> Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 01:20:28 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: A dying silk question To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 44 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 12/06/1999 7:22:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, BergdahlS@dhhs.co.sacramento.ca.us writes: << I have to agree with Kathleen. It sounds just lovely at it is. And I would be more than will to take a bolt off your hands. >> No no no...it screams Halloween. Did I mention it has black too? There is enough yellow & white in it to turn it a brown, green & pale blue plaid. Mint would turn it and different brown, different green and mint plaid. A brown will yield a plaid of rich browns. I plan to do samples before dunking the entire bolt. It is silk. I have, for Interview with the Vampire, dyed in hot water & tan Rit a piece of the same stuff in red white & blue, which tuned out very nice but not as stiff as before dying. Some spray starch and an industrial iron made it look very nice. That's why I want to try cold water. Loosing some body is worth toning down the color to me. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 7 00:27:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA20701 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 00:27:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA02772; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 23:44:45 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA27167 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 23:44:02 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.nightowl.net (mail.nightowl.net [207.124.43.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA27156 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 23:44:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (robin@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by mail.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA20304 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 00:54:10 -0600 Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id BAA16130 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 01:51:42 -0600 Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 01:51:42 -0600 (EST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List Subject: H-COST: New book Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Robin Netherton I don't read Italian, but someone out there may be interested in this new book: Maria Giuseppina Muzzarelli, Guardaroba medievale: vesti e societa dal 13. al 16. secolo (Bologna: Il mulino, 1999). I know nothing about this other than the rather promising title. (I have a librarian friend who lets me know about any medieval costume publications he happens to spot.) --Robin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 7 00:41:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA20709 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 00:41:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA04115; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 23:59:08 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA28852 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 23:59:02 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d01.mx.aol.com (imo-d01.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.33]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA28846 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 23:59:01 -0700 (MST) From: Panmela@aol.com Received: from Panmela@aol.com by imo-d01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.b5589624 (4530) for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 01:58:28 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.b5589624.257e0a14@aol.com> Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 01:58:28 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: Baby Doll Dresses (and skimmers/sizzlers) To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 49 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Panmela@aol.com Dear Emma - skimmers came in a number of designs. The one I had (which I remember so vividly because my parents were LIVID that I made it and I still have the tacky commemorative photograph of wearing it without permission at school) had a v neck, tiny half circle slightly gathered cap sleeves and princess lines. The princess lines flared deeply at the hip and just beyond (it only went just beyond). The bottoms were cut like slightly over large undies and showed whenever you moved. I made it out of a slinky synthetic knit. Pamela D. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 7 01:28:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA20750 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 01:28:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA08247; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 00:45:30 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA04022 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 00:45:07 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA04014 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 00:45:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA04134 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 23:45:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-58-15.lightspeed.net [209.165.58.15]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA05697 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 23:45:01 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <001d01bf4089$5e19a760$6b67fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: References: <199912070502.WAA13263@net.indra.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: Pink Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 00:02:10 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" > As I am driving along, the sun is just slipping out from below the clouds > of a small thunderstorm to behind the horizon, off to the left is a curtain > of rain, with lightning striking in the center. The curtain of rain is > neon/dayglow pink, the clouds are white, black and the sky behind them is > every shade of vibrant pink and orange that one could imagine. Wow. That sounds beautiful! > > Right then and there I decided, that if a color occurred in nature, then > man would try and reproduce it. And there it was, no doubt about it, > neon/dayglow pink and orange. So, unless it is a color not found in > nature, (I can't think of any myself) I will always be skeptical when > someone tells me that a color isn't period. I agree. When I first started participating in Renaissance Faires, I was told that the rule of thumb was -- if you can figure out how to get a color with nature, then you can use it. The point is, if you research and can find plants, bark, berries, etc. to get a certain color, chances are high that they did too. Michelle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 7 03:55:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA26110 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 03:55:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA17061; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 03:12:30 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA18738 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 03:11:58 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA18725 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 03:11:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) id <01JJ7SYDO1ZK001NSP@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 10:11:49 GMT Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.56.3]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) with ESMTP id <01JJ7SOO0ATA0017S5@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Tue, 07 Dec 1999 10:03:31 +0000 (GMT) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); 7 Dec 99 10:00:55 GMT0BST Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44) ; 7 Dec 99 10:00:25 GMT0BST Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.126) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; 7 Dec 99 10:00:15 GMT0BST Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 10:00:15 +0000 (GMT) From: Teddy Subject: Re: H-COST: Moths in UK In-reply-to: <199912061801.LAA27523@net.indra.com> To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Teddy Hi Dave > - -Poster: "LDMundy" > > Is it Nuvan-Tops ? comes in two very expensive cans one for the > house and one for cats dogs etc. No. I can't remember the name but it was one word. As I recall it sounded vaguely "dynamic"... if that makes any sense. The strange thing is that another friend (a vet) told me later that the stuff *doesn't* work on moth or carpet beetle, other than killing off the existing ones (and anything else that breathes in too much of it). All I can say is that it worked on the ones we had - killed the existing ones and stopped the young ones from developing. Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of air and darkness, apparently!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 7 04:00:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA26116 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 04:00:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA17410; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 03:18:39 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA05167 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 03:18:26 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA05070 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 03:18:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) id <01JJ7T6OIQUO001KT8@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 10:18:21 GMT Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.56.3]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) with ESMTP id <01JJ7T621948001H2F@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Tue, 07 Dec 1999 10:17:32 +0000 (GMT) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); 7 Dec 99 10:14:56 GMT0BST Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44) ; 7 Dec 99 10:14:32 GMT0BST Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.126) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; 7 Dec 99 10:14:30 GMT0BST Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 10:14:30 +0000 (GMT) From: Teddy Subject: Re: H-COST: A dying silk question In-reply-to: <199912062139.OAA02658@net.indra.com> To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Teddy > - -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com > > Greetings all, > I just bought 3 bolts of plaid silk taffeta. Each has 12 to 15 > yards on it. The price at the rummage sale was right... $10 a > bolt!!!!! Why so cheap? because the plaid is ORANGE! ... I mean > electric orange....and black and yellow on a white ground. Wow! that sounds like *my* sort of fabric! Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of air and darkness, apparently!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 7 04:03:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA26187 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 04:03:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA17549; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 03:21:29 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA15763 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 03:21:22 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA15675 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 03:21:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) id <01JJ7T3L7KZK001ODT@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 10:21:16 GMT Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.56.3]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) with ESMTP id <01JJ7T2C5TEA0017S5@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Tue, 07 Dec 1999 10:14:32 +0000 (GMT) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); 7 Dec 99 10:11:56 GMT0BST Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44) ; 7 Dec 99 10:11:48 GMT0BST Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.126) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; 7 Dec 99 10:11:38 GMT0BST Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 10:11:38 +0000 (GMT) From: Teddy Subject: H-COST: Re: Pink! In-reply-to: <199912062139.OAA02658@net.indra.com> To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Teddy > - -Poster: cynthia j ley > > Whaddya mean, no pink? 8) > > Check in the Duc de Berry's Books of Hours (any of them). You'll find > a beautiful pink being used as a clothing color. > > Arlys Personally, I'd question the use of the word "beautiful" to describe pink.... but then, unless it's a really *vivid* pink (used for effect!), I'm bound to hate it. Pink has one *slight* saving grace - it's marginally nicer than grey (which isn't saying much) Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of air and darkness, apparently!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 7 04:10:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA26197 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 04:10:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA17844; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 03:28:34 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA17107 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 03:28:26 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA16933 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 03:28:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) id <01JJ7THDNGB4001ODT@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 10:28:19 GMT Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.56.3]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) with ESMTP id <01JJ7TGLKALK000YSD@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Tue, 07 Dec 1999 10:26:02 +0000 (GMT) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); 7 Dec 99 10:23:26 GMT0BST Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44) ; 7 Dec 99 10:23:15 GMT0BST Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.126) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; 7 Dec 99 10:23:07 GMT0BST Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 10:23:07 +0000 (GMT) From: Teddy Subject: Re: H-COST: A dying silk question In-reply-to: <199912070459.VAA12279@net.indra.com> To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Teddy > >I have to agree with Kathleen. It sounds just lovely at it is. And > >I would be more than will to take a bolt off your hands. > > Orange is my favorite colour! I would buy a bolt from you!. > > Cheers, > Danielle I might have known Danielle would jump in here! Hi Danielle! I just tried out a new shade of orange dye - managed to get cheap cotton lining dyed *just* the right colour to line a gown of the *softest* orange velvet I've ever handled - unfortunately, it's not for me! Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of air and darkness, apparently!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 7 05:36:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA26248 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 05:36:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA20507; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 04:40:04 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA24818 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 04:38:07 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA24812 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 04:38:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.202] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11vIwT-0003pQ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 03:38:02 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19991206115603.00a26c90@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 11:58:01 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Pink In-Reply-To: <199912070502.WAA13263@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Admittedly the color may not >be appropriate for certain times and places, but that doesn't mean it >didn't exist. Because I am sure that somewhere, sometime in the past, >others saw the same colors I did and admired them enough to recreate them. How about 'admired them enough to try to recreate them'? I will take the word of a dyer on the possibility/probability of those colours, but I won't believe neon colours are possible with natural dyestuff till then. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 7 05:36:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA26251 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 05:36:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA20512; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 04:40:04 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA24825 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 04:38:09 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA24820 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 04:38:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.202] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11vIwV-0003pQ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 03:38:04 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19991206120144.00b96e70@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 12:06:00 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: bees In-Reply-To: <199912070406.FAA15733@raq.dnsworld.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows I used to own a book of Hungarian art, one photo in which showed a 'spangled' garment from before 1400 (I think). Anyway, said garment had lots of little flat metal bits sewn onto it, many in recognizable shapes. It looked a lot like a charm bracelet, but the bits were gold. I would believe it if I were told all these bees were sew-ons from a garment. I would also believe washer-like things which were nailed onto something solid, like a saddle frame. >I don't know about 'coronation robes' but in King Childerich's grave >(died 481), which was a huge grave arrangement, with hill and >everything and horse graves arranged around his grave chamber, >there were found these gold bees. The grave was opened in the 18th >century, and unfortunately most of the gold artefacts (there were >innumerable ones) were stolen from the archaeologists and molten >down. Thus only (fortunately very detailed and accurate) coloured >engravings of all the finds remain. The bees must have been >beautiful. But Childerich was dressed in late Roman-Germanic dress >and weapons, a combination. >An extensive discussion of the grave and the finds, as well as the >18th century engravings of the bees can be found in the two volume >German exhibition catalogue 'the Franks' from a touring large >exhibition in the 90s. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 7 05:47:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA26258 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 05:47:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA21361; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 05:07:22 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA27638 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 05:07:12 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (smtp10.atl.mindspring.net [207.69.200.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA27630 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 05:07:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from eccentrisprynet (pool-209-138-177-31.ipls.grid.net [209.138.177.31]) by smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA14028 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 07:07:08 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002801bf40ab$ee3502a0$1fb18ad1@com> From: "TC Carstensen" To: References: <3.0.1.32.19991207000035.0094f7c0@mail.interlog.com> Subject: H-COST: Orange Cloth (Was: A dying silk question) Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 07:09:33 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "TC Carstensen" Danielle Nunn > Orange is my favorite colour! Oh, then you need to check out the pumpkin colored unsheared corduroy that Phoenix Textiles has for sale for $3 a yard. I already bought some in another color and was so delighted with it that I couldn't resist placing another order for the pumpkin, too. It is the softest stuff! http://store.yahoo.com/phoenixtextiles/uncor2.html BTW, orders for $30 or more through Wednesday Dec. 9 get free shipping, just in case you weren't tempted enough to order from them already. I love Phoenix Textiles. I always get such great deals from them. TC Carstensen, no affiliation, just a very satisfied customer :) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 7 07:12:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA26376 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 07:12:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA26656; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 06:32:17 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA07113 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 06:31:30 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.68]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA07095 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 06:31:24 -0700 (MST) From: Gaelscot@aol.com Received: from Gaelscot@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.2988b88 (4312) for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 08:30:41 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.2988b88.257e6601@aol.com> Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 08:30:41 EST Subject: H-COST: Re: carnation To: h-costume-digest@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com I love all those color names too, but they can be misleading. Carnation was, I believe, a sort of dried blood color, not a pink. Boy, I wish the Color Marketing Group and the other so-called color "forecasters" would make up names like that today! Gail Finke _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 7 07:40:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA26420 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 07:40:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA29814; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 06:58:29 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA10851 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 06:58:20 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [195.194.177.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA10829 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 06:58:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from csv6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA17118.; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 14:04:03 GMT Received: from staff-Message_Server by csv6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 07 Dec 1999 13:57:51 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5.2 Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 13:52:57 +0000 From: "KATE M BUNTING" To: Subject: H-COST: Re: Restoration London Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id GAA10845 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "KATE M BUNTING" My database tells me that this book IS now available in the US (St Martin's Press, ISBN 0312186592) I haven't seen it myself, but it definitely sounds like one to look out for! Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 7 08:09:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA26533 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 08:09:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA02421; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 07:26:51 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA15161 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 07:26:42 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA15148 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 07:26:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991207142637.UVCR7535.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 06:26:37 -0800 Message-ID: <384D1854.FAF65E31@home.com> Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 08:23:16 -0600 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Pink References: <4.1.19991206115603.00a26c90@pop.slip.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kat & Kent Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > How about 'admired them enough to try to recreate them'? I will take > the word of a dyer on the possibility/probability of those colours, > but I won't believe neon colours are possible with natural dyestuff > till then. I haven't done natural dying since Girl Scout camp but I seem to recall making something that came out pretty neon... and the ancient Bruce tartan *screams* with neon orange & green. Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 7 08:13:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA26570 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 08:13:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA03140; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 07:32:45 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA16172 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 07:32:19 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA16162 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 07:32:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991207143214.UYFT7535.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 06:32:14 -0800 Message-ID: <384D19A3.106294EC@home.com> Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 08:28:51 -0600 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #831, Kid's SCA clothing References: <1.5.4.16.19991206160901.46074a7a@mail.interlog.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kat & Kent "Marsha S. McLean" wrote: > > My point is that we must do our best within reason, and anyone who > objects politely is /welcome/ to make my son a new wardrobe; ill > mannered rudesbys might be invited to bite a rude portion of my > anatomy. I am certainly devoted to authenticity, but for myself. I > will happily give advice to any who /ask/. I consider it the height > of bad manners to presume to criticize unasked. Besides, as Lady > Tudor Glitz was told "telling people something isn't period isn't > period". I agree... while it may really jar me to see children in mundanes... I would NEVER tell the parents or child that it was bad... I do sometimes ask why as nicely as I can because there have been times when I've run across someone who wasn't wearing something because their only piece of garb had been damaged or the child's garb wasn't finished etc. and I've been able to provide/find something suitable. Certainly if a parent says to me that they've tried and can't get the child to wear garb... while I might make suggestions on how to change this I will sympathize and think nothing bad about them... it's the ones who just blithely say, "oh, well, he's just a kid... they *won't* wear garb" without having even bothered to try that annoy me... and even then I'll just nod sagaciously and go on my way. Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 7 08:23:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA26579 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 08:23:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA03849; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 07:41:23 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA17352 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 07:39:14 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA17341 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 07:39:11 -0700 (MST) From: AlbraKat@aol.com Received: from AlbraKat@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.bf612c26 (4441) for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 09:38:36 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.bf612c26.257e75eb@aol.com> Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 09:38:35 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: Pink To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 58 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbraKat@aol.com When a batch of natural dyestuffs failed to arrive for a local class I was teaching--we played with the herbs in my garden and the spices in my rack. When the contents of my spice rack produced a most wonderous shade of neon fuschia pink , I too, was convinced that earlier folks must have enjoyed it, too!! cheers, albra _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 7 08:26:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA26583 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 08:26:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA04272; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 07:44:31 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA18339 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 07:44:28 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from fargpop1.farg.uswest.net (fargpop1.farg.uswest.net [207.109.224.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA18332 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 07:44:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 14674 invoked by alias); 7 Dec 1999 14:44:25 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-h-costume@indra.com@fixme Received: (qmail 14668 invoked by uid 0); 7 Dec 1999 14:44:24 -0000 Received: from bdsl118.farg.uswest.net (HELO john) (209.181.216.118) by fargpop1.farg.uswest.net with SMTP; 7 Dec 1999 14:44:24 -0000 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19991207084341.0094ec80@pop.farg.uswest.net> X-Sender: kimbaird@pop.farg.uswest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 08:44:25 -0600 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kim Baird Subject: Re: H-COST: sewing machine advice requested. In-Reply-To: <384C9DDA.89B46E9A@worldnet.att.net> References: <4.2.0.58.19991205083536.00965d70@pop.farg.uswest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kim Baird Don't you mean AFTER 1965? At 09:40 PM 12/06/1999 -0800, you wrote: >-Poster: don and carolyn richardson > >I think I'd qualify that - don't buy any Singer machine made before >1965. A lot of the 40s, 50s and 60s models came in green, pink, or tan >(featherweights came in all 3 I think, as well as white). _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 7 08:52:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA26597 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 08:52:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA07621; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 08:11:07 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA23163 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 08:10:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA23155 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 08:10:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA12602 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 10:10:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA25090 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 10:11:28 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 10:11:27 -0500 (EST) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Queen Elizabeth's Effigy Corset? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: aleed About a year ago, someone on the list posted a message regarding the corset worn by Queen Elizabeth's effigy--apparantly, Arnold had examinied it and pronounced it contemporary with QE's death. Does anyone have a copy of this message, or can the original poster contact me? I made a replica of this corset based on the photo in the Westminster Effigies book, but am now trying to document it as an early 17th century item, and can't find any info on it. Many thanks, Drea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 7 08:54:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA26606 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 08:54:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA07932; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 08:12:48 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA23548 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 08:12:45 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from eclipse.pacifier.com (eclipse.pacifier.com [199.2.117.78]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA23535 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 08:12:43 -0700 (MST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: from grendal2 (ip110.van15.pacifier.com [216.65.137.110]) by eclipse.pacifier.com (8.9.3/8.9.3pop) with SMTP id HAA14950 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 07:12:32 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199912071512.HAA14950@eclipse.pacifier.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 07:15:46 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: Nails -- An Urban Legend Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3.0.1.32.19991207000217.00735be0@pop.mindspring.com> References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > >>>> Someone > >told one of the Docents that the wood floor was "wrong" because they had > >used nails. After a few minutes of conversion it became clear that there > >was no getting through to this guy that nails are period for most of > >history. She just looked him in the eye, and told him, "Your right sir. > >They screwed Jesus to the cross!" It still makes me laugh to thing about > >it. > ><<< > >An American friend now resident in the UK claims to have made a similar > retort to a fellow-visitor to (I think) an American Civil War battlefield, > who asserted that nails were not available then. > > I heard this one, too. Except it was an interpreter at Valley Forge Historical > Park and he got fired for this response to an incredulous tourist. Perhaps people are getting confused about joining items. In many periods of history nails were used only for rough work. They are a rather labor intensive item as they need to be drawn and forged. Screws were definitely not used. However, wooden pegs were used for finer work like nice boxes and floors. Joints (like dovetail joints) were often used as well. Nails have their place but many floors especially were pegged together with doweling. Doweling is comparatively fast to make and holds well because it will generally swell just slightly after being put in (where nails progressively work looser with time.) Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 7 09:01:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA26649 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 09:01:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA08810; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 08:19:06 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA24809 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 08:18:59 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from eclipse.pacifier.com (eclipse.pacifier.com [199.2.117.78]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA24793 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 08:18:57 -0700 (MST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: from grendal2 (ip110.van15.pacifier.com [216.65.137.110]) by eclipse.pacifier.com (8.9.3/8.9.3pop) with SMTP id HAA16350 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 07:18:49 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199912071518.HAA16350@eclipse.pacifier.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 07:22:03 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: Pink Priority: normal In-reply-to: <0.bf612c26.257e75eb@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > When a batch of natural dyestuffs failed to arrive for a local class I was > teaching--we played with the herbs in my garden and the spices in my rack. > When the contents of my spice rack produced a most wonderous shade of neon > fuschia pink , I too, was convinced that earlier folks must have enjoyed it, > too!! Folks may have enjoyed it at times. However, it was not as popular amongst the people who bought cloth as one might think. Yes, they did have it (and peach) but it is our *modern* aesthetics which says they would like it if we do. They had different attitudes about this. That's why the old saw "if they could have had it they would have used it" doesn't work when studying history. There are a lot of things they could have done and didn't because they didn't like it. It wasn't their style. Pink is one of those things which could be done and was done some, but wasn't as popular as it is now. Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 7 09:32:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA26723 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 09:32:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA12917; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 08:48:00 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA01998 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 08:47:35 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from crunchy.sound.net (crunchy.sound.net [205.242.194.25]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA01981 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 08:47:32 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 27630 invoked from network); 7 Dec 1999 15:45:55 -0000 Received: from tnt0-080183.kc.sound.net (HELO sound.net) (209.153.80.183) by crunchy.sound.net with SMTP; 7 Dec 1999 15:45:55 -0000 Message-ID: <384D2C57.1A93D7E2@sound.net> Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 09:48:39 -0600 From: Linda Thompson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historic costume Subject: H-COST: Sewing machines and buying Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Linda Thompson Just in case you haven't gotten enough replies, here are my machines. I have an Elna from the early 80's ($400.00)- It clothed my children and has been a work horse with very little maintenance.(no plastic interior parts) A Singer "Jeans Machine" from the 90's ($200.00 range)- It works well but its stitch speed could be faster, and I have continual trouble with the thread not seating properly when threaded (have to constantly make sure it is snug in the thread tension wheel) And I am tking it too the repair person to frequently. A Viking 1000 from the 93/4 ($1200.00 range)- My main machine right now, has been put through extensive abuse doing Ren clothes for 6 years now, no real maintenance. A Singer Industrial Needle Feed from the 60's (used $500.00)- FAST, fast fast... straight stitch only, and sounds like a jet plane when you start it up. Use this for long runs of straight seams. Love it for velvet/satin A Babylock Serger from 94 ($800.00 range)- Has always performed well, although it needs to be adjusted for each fabric change. A Singer "Featherweight" from 1929 (Swapped costume for this machine)- Incredible straight stitch, it goes forward and backwards, used for incredibly sheer fabric such as silk gauze and for topstitching, the feed dog plate has only a small hole about the size of a "pencil lead" so sheer fabrics do not get pulled into the feed dog area. Been told it is a favorite of quilters. Remember one thing... When you do go to buy a machine, take your own bag of scraps to sew on. Make sure you take fabric that you frequently sew. Brocades, denims, velvets.. All react quite differently than those small scraps of cottons and polyester they usually use at the demo table. The main feature you should consider looking for is a walking foot machine, or one that has a walking foot option. Or if you can find it, a needle feed machine. (Needle moves with the fabric as it sews)... With either of these you will not have near the problem with the lower fabric creeping through faster than the upper fabric. And of course any of the other bells and whistles.. Me.. I am looking for an embroidery machine that does not cost a fortune and lets me use my own designs. I have no desire or need to get a mchine that offers a 1000 designs some one else did. So why should I have to pay for them. Anyone have any suggestions? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 7 10:23:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA26785 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 10:22:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA20948; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 09:38:44 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA10854 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 09:20:19 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com (imo-d06.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA10843 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 09:20:17 -0700 (MST) From: SNSpies@aol.com Received: from SNSpies@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.75c16662 (4240) for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 11:19:43 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.75c16662.257e8d9e@aol.com> Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 11:19:42 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: bees To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 38 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: SNSpies@aol.com Nicole, thanks so very much for the citation. I'll put in an ILL request today. Nancy _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 7 10:28:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA26827 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 10:28:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA22512; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 09:46:40 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA19315 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 09:46:34 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from Herb-Lore.com (mail.herb-lore.com [209.141.89.62]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA19285 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 09:46:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from f1 [207.204.223.207] by Herb-Lore.com (SMTPD32-5.05) id A7DD32110132; Tue, 07 Dec 1999 09:46:05 -0700 Message-ID: <004c01bf40da$f4c71840$0101a8c0@f1> From: "Heather" To: References: <0.122f1691.257e012c@aol.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: A dying silk question Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 09:36:28 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Heather" > No no no...it screams Halloween. Did I mention it has black too? There is > enough yellow & white in it to turn it a brown, green & pale blue plaid. Mint > would turn it and different brown, different green and mint plaid. A brown > will yield a plaid of rich browns. I plan to do samples before dunking the > entire bolt. It is silk. If you wouldn't mind posting them somewhere, I'd like to see the before and afters of your samples. Thanks, Heather _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 7 10:53:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA26904 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 10:53:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA26238; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 10:08:46 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA25551 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 10:08:29 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA25539 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 10:08:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA00183 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 12:08:21 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 12:08:18 -0500 (EST) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: tshirt t-tunics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kevin & Mara Riley When I was a kid, all I wanted to wear were long dresses... this was the early 70s, and mom had to make them all by hand. Well, two dresses, total, I think, but she couldn't get me to wear anything else. I still love floor-length skirts. And we weren't even cognizant of the SCA... I think I just imprinted on the long gowns in the fairy-tale books! Mara On Mon, 6 Dec 1999, Karalee Larsen Pugmire wrote: > > -Poster: Karalee Larsen Pugmire > > I guess I'm lucky. My daughter, who changes clothing three or four times a > day loves her SCA garb. Frankly I can't get her out of it. I've had to > close my eyes and just take her places because I didn't have time for the > battle of changing into modern clothes. I have fun using her for a barbie > to try out new designs. At first I couldn't get head dresses on her but > lately she's begun showing real interest in wearing mine so I'm planning on > making her several things like padded rolls and such that can be taken off > easily, adjusted and then primped in front of a mirror by an extremely > independent high functioning autistic child. > > Francesca da Bari > Cote du Ciel (Logan, Utah) > Francesca.da.Bari > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 7 10:56:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA26908 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 10:56:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA27175; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 10:14:26 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA27463 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 10:14:16 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com (imo-d06.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA27443 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 10:14:13 -0700 (MST) From: Kwhykelly@aol.com Received: from Kwhykelly@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.cc7e96b7 (3969) for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 12:13:33 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.cc7e96b7.257e9a3d@aol.com> Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 12:13:33 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: A dying silk question To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 45 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kwhykelly@aol.com In a message dated 12/6/99 4:36:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, AlbertCat@aol.com writes: << -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com Greetings all, I just bought 3 bolts of plaid silk taffeta. Each has 12 to 15 yards on it. The price at the rummage sale was right... $10 a bolt!!!!! Why so cheap? because the plaid is ORANGE! ... I mean electric orange....and black and yellow on a white ground. Now I know they can be dipped to kill and change the colors to a more acceptable combination. My question is: what to use? I'm not a dyer but I use to be dye master for the local Shakespeare Festival years ago. All we ever used was Tintex or Rit. All that's available here is Rit or Dylon cold dye. In fact I just happen to have about 6 little packages of Dylon in "Moon Blue"...a pale grey/blue. I thought I'd use it to tint a length of this orange plait silk. What do ya think? I can follow the directions and do enough for a dress. I thought I'd dip some other lengths in different tints...mint green or a purple-brown. Is there another dye I could use to get good results on a 6 or 7 yard length. I only have a stove, hot plates, wash tubs, and a washing machine for equipment. Should I stick with cold water or just [as I have in the past] use hot water & Rit? Rit is fine for stage but I'd hate to make something, sell it and then have it fade! __________________ >> Finally, a question that I can answer! I have been dying silk for that last 5 years or so for costuming purposes. I can say that Rit really is not a good choice as it never seems to stop bleeding. You need a good acid dye. Why not try Dharma Trading Co. http://www.dharmatrading.com/ I have successfully dyed 10 yard lengths with little to no streaks in it in the washing machine. Using the recommended oil helps keep the color even. Kristi Kelly _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 7 11:03:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA26931 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 11:03:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA28439; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 10:20:41 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA21459 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 09:55:07 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail-out1.apple.com (mail-out1.apple.com [17.254.0.52]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA21436 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 09:55:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailgate1.apple.com (A17-128-100-225.apple.com [17.128.100.225]) by mail-out1.apple.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA03886 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 08:55:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from scv2.apple.com (scv2.apple.com) by mailgate1.apple.com (mailgate1.apple.com- SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id for ; Tue, 07 Dec 1999 08:54:50 -0800 Received: from [17.202.21.54] (decamp.apple.com [17.202.21.54]) by scv2.apple.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA25746 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 08:54:48 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199912071654.IAA25746@scv2.apple.com> Subject: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #833 Date: Tue, 7 Dec 99 08:54:32 -0800 x-sender: gdecamp@shell12.ba.best.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 From: "Gail K. DeCamp" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Gail K. DeCamp" Hi Albertcat, Hmm.... cold water dye bath.... a beige overdye? Might calm down the screaming orange nicely. Or how about a tea dye (depending on how fast you want the color to be) Let us know what happens-- I'm dying (oops, excuse me, how about "anxious") to hear all about it! -Gail DeCamp >> The price at the rummage sale was right... $10 a bolt!!!!! Why so cheap? >> because the plaid is ORANGE! ... I mean electric orange....and black and >> yellow on a white ground. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 7 11:04:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA26935 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 11:04:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA28583; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 10:21:13 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA29534 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 10:21:08 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29478 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 10:21:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p24.directcon.net [206.170.184.73]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA04149 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 09:18:57 -0800 Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 09:18:57 -0800 Message-Id: <199912071718.JAA04149@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Moths in UK Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson >> >> Is it Nuvan-Tops ? comes in two very expensive cans one for the >> house and one for cats dogs etc. > >No. I can't remember the name but it was one word. Zodiac? I've had excelllent luck with that brand. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 7 11:05:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA26941 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 11:05:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA28861; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 10:22:47 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA29966 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 10:22:43 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29954 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 10:22:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA02807 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 12:22:39 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 12:22:36 -0500 (EST) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: bees In-Reply-To: <0.62171ae1.257df778@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kevin & Mara Riley Regarding bees and the Merovingians, there are certain legends (which are just that -- legends -- so far as I can tell; little or no proof to back it up) that the Merovingian kings were descended from the line of King David (you know, the one in the Bible). I can't decide whether this falls into the medieval practice of trying to tie everything into the Bible, whether there was historic documentation or not, or whether there might have been something to it, since a good number of Jewish exiles after the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD did wind up in what was then southern Roman Gaul. Who knows? But they might have believed it themselves, whether it's true or not, in which case the bees might have to do with that. I was thinking that David killed a lion, but I'm mistaken, it's Samson who killed the lion then returned later to find that bees had taken up residence in the skull. Still, there might be a tie-in, symbolically. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 7 11:10:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA26947 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 11:09:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29362; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 10:26:58 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA01325 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 10:26:43 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01310 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 10:26:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA03569 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 12:26:39 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 12:26:36 -0500 (EST) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: OT- Ships/IWTV (was Re: H-COST: A dying silk question In-Reply-To: <0.122f1691.257e012c@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kevin & Mara Riley Since you mentioned Interview with the Vampire -- did you get a chance to see the Schooner Alexandria when she was in New Orleans for the shoot? She only wound up in about 30 seconds of the film, during the opening credits, but we (volunteer crew) were thrilled that she was used at all. She has since been sold and is unfortunately keeping company with other ships off Cape Hatteras in the aptly-named Graveyard of the Atlantic. Cheers Mara _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 7 11:23:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA26987 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 11:23:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01641; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 10:40:44 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA04821 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 10:38:47 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA04803 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 10:38:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA05550 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 12:38:44 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 12:38:41 -0500 (EST) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Pink In-Reply-To: <001d01bf4089$5e19a760$6b67fea9@gunsafes> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kevin & Mara Riley On Tue, 7 Dec 1999, Michelle wrote: > I agree. When I first started participating in Renaissance Faires, I was > told that the rule of thumb was -- if you can figure out how to get a color > with nature, then you can use it. The point is, if you research and can find > plants, bark, berries, etc. to get a certain color, chances are high that > they did too. > > Michelle That's a good criteria. I cringed a bit at the original poster saying that if she'd seen a color in nature (i.e., the sunset), then she'd wear it. Well, there are some beautiful colors -- in flowers, bird plumage, etc. -- which, while occuring in nature, are very hard or impossible to acheive with natural dyes. On the other hand, sometimes you'd be surprised what you can find. A good example is orchil, a dye from lichens in the Scottish Hebrides. Yes, you can get brilliant mauves and pinks from this lichen, but it would be SO cost-prohibitive that anything other than a stripe or a bit of trim in this color would be beyond the means of any common person. Likewise with purple -- I got a rather muddy purple (more of a maroon) when I tried overdyeing madder with indigo. The fine ('royal') purples came from that whelk whose name I can't remember right now, and the sheer quantity of shellfish necessary to dye the fabric would have made it very expensive for anyone to wear that particular shade of purple. A good madder red is hard to acheive; usually it comes out barn-red. This color might or might not fade to a nice pink; it depends on the quality of the dye and the skill of the dyer. I think it is possible, but tricky. They obviously did get pinks, if we can rely on the Tres Riches Heures. It would be a good idea to look at existing portraits as a guide to what range of colors was available. The best reds in the Renaissance period were from cochineal or several other insects. This is where you get your true scarlets, and it would probably be very expensive. In the 18th century British army, soldiers' coats were dyed with madder, and the officers' coats with cochineal. I think any reenactor ought to get a good book on natural dyes, just to give them a bit of an eye for the range of colors available. Cheers, Mara _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 7 11:29:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA26993 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 11:29:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02814; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 10:46:57 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA07112 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 10:46:52 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ntserver1.mainsaver.com ([206.17.202.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA07078 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 10:46:47 -0700 (MST) Received: by HP-LH3 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 09:38:03 -0800 Message-ID: <5B38B8D7EED8D211997F00A0C9E57FB91DB67B@HP-LH3> From: MAGGIE SECARA To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Re: Restoration London Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 09:37:53 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MAGGIE SECARA > ---------- > From: don and carolyn richardson[SMTP:benrumson@worldnet.att.net] > Reply To: h-costume@indra.com > Sent: Monday, December 06, 1999 9:21 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Restoration London > I said: > > > > It's a book of little details sort of > > > like "What Jane Austen Ate, What Charles Dickens Knew" or whichever > way it > > > goes, grouped by category and largely gleaned from Pepys' diaries. > Every > And Carolyn said: > True, but what's the objection? Pepys *did* live in the period - if he > doesn't know what he's talking about who does? > Did I object? I also said "grouped by category". Just a point of information. MaggiRos _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 7 11:30:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA26997 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 11:30:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02209; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 10:43:47 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA06160 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 10:43:36 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06142 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 10:43:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA06432 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 12:43:31 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 12:43:28 -0500 (EST) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Pink In-Reply-To: <0.bf612c26.257e75eb@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kevin & Mara Riley What did you use to get this color? Inquiring minds want to know... Cheers, Mara On Tue, 7 Dec 1999 AlbraKat@aol.com wrote: > > -Poster: AlbraKat@aol.com > > When a batch of natural dyestuffs failed to arrive for a local class I was > teaching--we played with the herbs in my garden and the spices in my rack. > When the contents of my spice rack produced a most wonderous shade of neon > fuschia pink , I too, was convinced that earlier folks must have enjoyed it, > too!! > cheers, > albra > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 7 11:39:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA27003 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 11:39:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA04669; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 10:55:28 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA09715 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 10:55:12 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ntserver1.mainsaver.com ([206.17.202.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA09692 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 10:55:07 -0700 (MST) Received: by HP-LH3 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 09:46:23 -0800 Message-ID: <5B38B8D7EED8D211997F00A0C9E57FB91DB67C@HP-LH3> From: MAGGIE SECARA To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Re: Restoration London Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 09:46:13 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MAGGIE SECARA Nicole-- Thank you so much! That's what I was hoping to hear. In fact, I was particularly hoping to hear from you, since I've spent kind of a lot of time on your website lately . The last time I asked about this period, the only reply I got was a pointer to the your URL. Since I was specifically looking for working class costume, it wasn't perhaps exactly to the point, but I've sure been learning a lot! I bought this book particularly hoping to fill in some of the blanks in my general (as well as costume) knowledge, and add credible detail to a work of fiction. My concern wasn't with her sources but with possible flaws in her interpretation of them. Good to know I can rely on her. This is all just for a novel, mind you, not an advanced degree or anything, but I do prefer to be right :) Thanks, > MaggiRos > > > Mary Countess of Southampton (RPF ret.) > Clara Munter, the Sojer's Friend (Corona, CA) > Mairghread-Ros FitzGarrett of Desmond (O.L. Caid) > and sometimes even > Maggie Secara > A Compendium of Common Knowledge (1558-1604) is at http://ren.dm.net > ---------- > From: Marquis de Kipar[SMTP:marquis@kipar.org] > Reply To: h-costume@indra.com > Sent: Monday, December 06, 1999 8:08 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: H-COST: Re: Restoration London > > > -Poster: "Marquis de Kipar" > > > Congratulations on the book! > > > I suppose I should have asked BEFORE buying the book, but now that I > have it > > I really must ask: Does anyone know anything/have an opinion about > > "Restoration London" by Liza Picard? > > It is just absolutely fantastic!!! One of the ever best books I have > seen so far on the late 17th century, admittedly, the 1660s. > Wonderful, lovely, my bible. Picard isn't a historian, but a lawyer, > and thus all the wonderful 'evidence' is there. Everyday life from > brushing one's teeth to monthly hygiene over clothes to statsitics and > god knows what else. > > It's a book of little details sort of > > like "What Jane Austen Ate, What Charles Dickens Knew" or whichever way > it > > goes, grouped by category and largely gleaned from Pepys' diaries. > Every > > and of course John Evelyn as well, and Hutchinson. > > > now and then I run across something I think sounds "off" but it's not my > > period really, so I don't like to trust that first reaction alone. > > Do trust this book. *nods* What might sound "off" to you is not off, > but the truth. I have a very large and tall bookshelf from the floor to > the ceiling with almost exclusively books on the late 17th century > Baroque period, I live and breathe for the French and English > Baroque ;-), and Picard has researched her book extremely well. > Plus she almost always gives the source for her facts, which means > no arguing with her, because it was written down by > contemporaries. *S* It's my period, really, and I highly recommend > the book to everyone interested in the period. Around 8 pounds > sterling. > Nicole > > ************************ > N. Kipar > Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs > French and English Baroque > http://www.kipar.org/ > *Vel Exuviae Triumphant* > *Triumphant Even In Adversity* > marquis@kipar.org > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 7 11:41:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA27009 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 11:41:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA05261; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 10:59:02 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA10633 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 10:58:42 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ntserver1.mainsaver.com ([206.17.202.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA10598 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 10:58:38 -0700 (MST) Received: by HP-LH3 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 09:49:53 -0800 Message-ID: <5B38B8D7EED8D211997F00A0C9E57FB91DB67D@HP-LH3> From: MAGGIE SECARA To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Re: Restoration London Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 09:49:49 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MAGGIE SECARA Yep, I got it from Amazon.com (US) this week, $19.25. My only objection is there aren't nearly enough pictures! Some good ones, oh yes, but I always want more. MaggiRos > ---------- > From: KATE M BUNTING[SMTP:K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk] > Reply To: h-costume@indra.com > Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 1999 5:52 AM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: H-COST: Re: Restoration London > > > -Poster: "KATE M BUNTING" > > My database tells me that this book IS now available in the US (St > Martin's Press, ISBN 0312186592) > > I haven't seen it myself, but it definitely sounds like one to look out > for! > > Kate Bunting > Library, University of Derby > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 7 13:21:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA27156 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 13:21:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA20739; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 12:36:06 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA07663 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 12:35:24 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bigred.unl.edu (00217146@bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA07654 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 12:35:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (00217146@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA23616 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 13:40:22 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 13:40:21 -0600 (CST) From: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: sewing machine advice requested. In-Reply-To: <384C9DDA.89B46E9A@worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> > I think I'd qualify that - don't buy any Singer machine made before > 1965. A lot of the 40s, 50s and 60s models came in green, pink, or tan > (featherweights came in all 3 I think, as well as white). > > And I doubt the featherweight reproduction scheduled for the end of the > year will be worth the money. I have seen *a* featherweight reproduction (not Singer, but with Singer's permission), with the same greek key decals, known as the "mini" or something like that. It was *not* worth the budget price it was given. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 7 13:32:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA27174 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 13:31:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22958; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 12:49:58 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA11784 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 12:49:54 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from luna.worldonline.nl (luna.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.131]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA11769 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 12:49:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by luna.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA18685 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 19:58:46 +0100 (MET) Received: from henk (vp237-195.worldonline.nl [195.241.237.195]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA15664 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 19:58:44 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <00c301bf40e4$dc8220e0$c3edf1c3@henk> From: "Henk 't Jong - tScapreel" To: References: Subject: Re: H-COST: Kidstuff was (Authenticity Enforcers) Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 19:44:43 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Henk 't Jong - tScapreel" Hi all, Mara wrote: > (grin) But that's what dogs are for -- to eat all those scraps, and lick > baby's face clean afterwards! Why else would our ancestors have kept lots > and lots of dogs underfoot (and under the table)? > > Ok, I'll stop the silliness now... Ok. I know that it's meant to be silly, but it's sort of a pet (!) peeve of mine: during most of the Middle Ages dogs were most of the time not kept as pets (except for rich and/or noble ladies and wealthy abesses). They were working animals. They were hunters for the nobility and farmers, guardians of property or packanimals. Some of the first might have joined their noble masters during dinner and were probably given scraps (see Duc de Berry in his january portrait) and some lapdogs were very much indulged, but this wasn't the norm. Dogs were certainly not as numerous as today and only from a few breeds. Henk (And it has nothing to do with costume either... ;-) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 7 13:40:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA27188 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 13:40:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22864; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 12:49:20 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA11579 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 12:49:12 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from luna.worldonline.nl (luna.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.131]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA11569 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 12:49:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by luna.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA18646 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 19:58:45 +0100 (MET) Received: from henk (vp237-195.worldonline.nl [195.241.237.195]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA15637 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 19:58:42 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <00c201bf40e4$db7592e0$c3edf1c3@henk> From: "Henk 't Jong - tScapreel" To: References: <1F176F2C2977D311B3300090270E637841AD7D@scl-exch.phoenix.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: escuz Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 19:36:10 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Henk 't Jong - tScapreel" Hi all Cynthia asked: > I dont know what the abbreviation "escuz." is. Unit of money? Yes, it's a French gold coin, coined since 1337 (and often called 'Old Shield' in the early 15th c) by then worth about half of an English noble. On it was the coat of arms of the kings of France, the three fleurs de lis in a shield. Shield in French is 'ecu', of which 'escuz' is the medieval plural. Funny thing is that the new European coin from 1.1.2001 is going to be called 'ecu' again. Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 7 13:50:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA27199 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 13:50:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA25117; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 13:04:12 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA15732 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 13:03:50 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from raq.dnsworld.de ([212.98.68.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA15712 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 13:03:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from default (dialin-57.aachen.okay.net [194.117.250.57]) by raq.dnsworld.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA23878 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 21:03:44 +0100 Message-Id: <199912072003.VAA23878@raq.dnsworld.de> From: "Marquis de Kipar" Organization: L'Age d'Or To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 21:05:14 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: H-COST: Re: Restoration London Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Marquis de Kipar" Dear Maggie, > Thank you so much! That's what I was hoping to hear. In fact, I was > particularly hoping to hear from you, since I've spent kind of a lot of time > on your website lately . The last time I asked about this period, the > only reply I got was a pointer to the your URL. Since I was specifically > looking for working class costume, it wasn't perhaps exactly to the point, > but I've sure been learning a lot! *blush* Thanks a lot! That's what makes me happy and worthwhile to spend hundred of hours on the website. And even more, I remembered, since you are looking for working class costume, that I still have engravings from 1689 depicting lower classes. I uploaded them and put them into the galleries. I hope 1689 is a date helpful for you. Go to http://www.kipar.org/galleries.html and then to Baroque Englavings then to 1680s. They are at the bottom. All the best and I hope this helps (if you have more questions, just mail me via the address below) Nicole ************************ N. Kipar Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs French and English Baroque http://www.kipar.org/ *Vel Exuviae Triumphant* *Triumphant Even In Adversity* marquis@kipar.org _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 7 13:54:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA27203 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 13:54:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA26613; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 13:11:53 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA18150 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 13:11:43 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ntserver1.mainsaver.com ([206.17.202.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA18134 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 13:11:41 -0700 (MST) Received: by HP-LH3 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 12:02:57 -0800 Message-ID: <5B38B8D7EED8D211997F00A0C9E57FB91DB681@HP-LH3> From: MAGGIE SECARA To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Re: Restoration London Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 12:02:49 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MAGGIE SECARA Bless your heart! Thank you. My particular focus is the 1670s (1675 to be specific for this novel) Naturally I wouldn't pick a year anyone else was using, or a decade in which anything apparently happened. But I figure working from the 60s and 80s, I may be able to make some reasonable extrapolations. Thanks again. Maggie > ---------- > From: Marquis de Kipar[SMTP:marquis@kipar.org] > Reply To: h-costume@indra.com > Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 1999 12:05 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: H-COST: Re: Restoration London > > > -Poster: "Marquis de Kipar" > > > > Dear Maggie, > > > Thank you so much! That's what I was hoping to hear. In fact, I was > > particularly hoping to hear from you, since I've spent kind of a lot of > time > > on your website lately . The last time I asked about this period, > the > > only reply I got was a pointer to the your URL. Since I was > specifically > > looking for working class costume, it wasn't perhaps exactly to the > point, > > but I've sure been learning a lot! > > *blush* Thanks a lot! > That's what makes me happy and worthwhile to spend hundred of > hours on the website. And even more, I remembered, since you are > looking for working class costume, that I still have engravings from > 1689 depicting lower classes. I uploaded them and put them into the > galleries. I hope 1689 is a date helpful for you. Go to > http://www.kipar.org/galleries.html > and then to Baroque Englavings then to 1680s. They are at the > bottom. > All the best and I hope this helps (if you have more questions, just > mail me via the address below) > Nicole > > > ************************ > N. Kipar > Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs > French and English Baroque > http://www.kipar.org/ > *Vel Exuviae Triumphant* > *Triumphant Even In Adversity* > marquis@kipar.org > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 7 15:01:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA27381 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 15:01:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06346; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 14:19:05 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA06658 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 14:18:43 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com (imo16.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06642 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 14:18:40 -0700 (MST) From: Panmela@aol.com Received: from Panmela@aol.com by imo16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.29505b02 (6107) for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 16:18:01 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.29505b02.257ed388@aol.com> Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 16:18:00 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: Authenticity "Enforcers" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Panmela@aol.com I can't get my system to copy Judie Adams post, but she was saying that back in the Mists of Time the RPFN/RPFS folks decided no pastels. They did, right around 1980. They also decided wheel farthingales were out (there had been a few, earlier). As I recall they wanted to focus court clothes on Elizabeth's mid reign and not the end of the reign with the huge ruffs, pale colors and monumental sized farthingales. So we've been stuck with jewel tones (which is to my mind, not the end of the world) and of course, black.... Pamela D. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 7 16:34:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA27551 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 16:34:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA20967; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 15:52:59 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA02566 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 15:52:34 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail3.lig.bellsouth.net (mail3.lig.bellsouth.net [205.152.0.51]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA02533 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 15:52:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (host-209-214-52-76.mgm.bellsouth.net [209.214.52.76]) by mail3.lig.bellsouth.net (3.3.5alt/0.75.2) with SMTP id RAA19153 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 17:52:29 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00b501bf4105$6fd78360$4c34d6d1@pavilion> From: "Johnna and David Goss" To: References: <199912062139.OAA02658@net.indra.com> Subject: H-COST: Listowner Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 16:50:18 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Johnna and David Goss" Will the listowner please email me. Thanks, djgoss _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 7 18:22:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA27901 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 18:22:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA06220; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 17:38:04 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA29690 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 17:37:31 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ntserver1.mainsaver.com ([206.17.202.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA29684 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 17:37:30 -0700 (MST) Received: by HP-LH3 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 16:28:45 -0800 Message-ID: <5B38B8D7EED8D211997F00A0C9E57FB91DB687@HP-LH3> From: MAGGIE SECARA To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Re: Restoration London Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 16:28:43 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MAGGIE SECARA Nicole said: > Plus she almost always gives the source for her facts, which means > no arguing with her, because it was written down by > contemporaries. > I'd hate to take this logic too far. We are all contemporary with our own fashions and heaven knows we argue all the time over what we wore when and how it was made and what it was (or is) called. Tends to happen every time we talk about the 60s, for example, we find that not everyone remembers the same things or the same way. Facts get interpreted by every witness. No arguing? Not around here.:) I find that re-enactors (including faire people from faires with costume standards) tend to have a much better idea about how clothes fit and were worn than anyone writing from ordinary research. On the other hand, I constantly have to make myself realize I may be applying what I know about one era to another _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 7 19:10:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA27990 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 19:10:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA12156; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 18:27:05 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA09201 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 18:26:51 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.10]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA09186 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 18:26:49 -0700 (MST) From: AlbraKat@aol.com Received: from AlbraKat@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.534b38f1 (4254) for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 20:26:10 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.534b38f1.257f0db2@aol.com> Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 20:26:10 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: Pink To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 58 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbraKat@aol.com I need to dredge up my class notes to tell you.Give me a day or so--to make good on that:) albra _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 7 19:15:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA28004 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 19:15:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA13043; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 18:33:58 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA10208 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 18:32:33 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA10194 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 18:32:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from test (ip136.toronto26.dialup.canada.psi.net [154.11.83.136]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id UAA14548 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 20:32:10 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19991207201555.0097fdf0@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 20:15:55 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: Orange Cloth (Was: A dying silk question) In-Reply-To: <002801bf40ab$ee3502a0$1fb18ad1@com> References: <3.0.1.32.19991207000035.0094f7c0@mail.interlog.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >Danielle Nunn >> Orange is my favorite colour! > >Oh, then you need to check out the pumpkin colored unsheared corduroy that >Phoenix Textiles has for sale for $3 a yard. I already bought some in >another color and was so delighted with it that I couldn't resist placing >another order for the pumpkin, too. It is the softest stuff! > >http://store.yahoo.com/phoenixtextiles/uncor2.html > >BTW, orders for $30 or more through Wednesday Dec. 9 get free shipping, >just in case you weren't tempted enough to order from them already. I love >Phoenix Textiles. I always get such great deals from them. Thanks! I will. I'm not sure my husband will thank you but, hey, its orange! I hope no one buys it all before I get there! Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 7 19:17:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA28008 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 19:17:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA13386; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 18:35:40 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA10777 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 18:35:35 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from pop1.cyberhighway.net (pop1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.35]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA10732 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 18:35:30 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199912080135.SAA10732@net.indra.com> Received: (qmail 22589 invoked from network); 7 Dec 1999 18:35:29 -0700 Received: from ts26-21.boi.cyberhighway.net (HELO kathy) (209.161.8.135) by pop1.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 7 Dec 1999 18:35:29 -0700 From: "K & J Hopkins" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Pink Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 18:45:50 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "K & J Hopkins" > That's a good criteria. I cringed a bit at the original poster saying > that if she'd seen a color in nature (i.e., the sunset), then she'd wear > it. I never said I would wear it. Sheesh.... Kathlene _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 7 19:21:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA28024 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 19:21:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA13046; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 18:33:58 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA10357 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 18:33:17 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from pop1.cyberhighway.net (pop1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.35]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA10350 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 18:33:15 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199912080133.SAA10350@net.indra.com> Received: (qmail 21824 invoked from network); 7 Dec 1999 18:33:10 -0700 Received: from ts26-21.boi.cyberhighway.net (HELO kathy) (209.161.8.135) by pop1.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 7 Dec 1999 18:33:10 -0700 From: "K & J Hopkins" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Pink Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 18:43:28 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "K & J Hopkins" > Folks may have enjoyed it at times. However, it was not as popular > amongst the people who bought cloth as one might think. Yes, they did > have it (and peach) but it is our *modern* aesthetics which says they > would like it if we do. They had different attitudes about this. > > That's why the old saw "if they could have had it they would have > used it" doesn't work when studying history. There are a lot of > things they could have done and didn't because they didn't like it. > It wasn't their style. Pink is one of those things which could be > done and was done some, but wasn't as popular as it is now. > > Kat Who is they? When? Where? This is too much of a generalization Again, I just can't bring myself to believe that, somewhere on this vast planet, over the last 2000 or more years, neon-like pink was not at one time or another, all the rage. Just because we as modern humans with all of our knowledge, machines and science, don't know about it, doesn't make it not so. There is a philosophy whose basic principle is, "There is nothing new under the sun." It is most accurate when applied to fashion. Kathlene _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 7 20:09:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA28161 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 20:09:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA18925; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 19:28:12 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA20193 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 19:27:41 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA20187 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 19:27:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.230.144] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11vWpN-0005wT-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 18:27:38 -0800 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 18:23:25 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: bees In-Reply-To: <199912070620.HAA16755@raq.dnsworld.de> References: <0.62171ae1.257df778@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 07:21 AM 12/07/1999 +0100, you wrote: > >-Poster: "Marquis de Kipar" Nicole-- I found three citations that may have the info. you were citing, and I believe it's the 1st that's the one-- Carol / Gra/inne 1. Die Franken : Wegbereiter Europas : vor 1500 Jahren, Konig Chlodwig und seine Erben. Mainz : Verlag P. von Zabern, c1996. UCB Main DC64 .F73 1996 v.1-2 (1996) UCLA URL DC 64 F73 1996 UCSB Arts Lib AEC-83520 Arts UCSD Art&Arch DC64 .F73 1996 Stacks 2. Kaiser, Reinhold. Die Franken : Roms Erben und Wegbereiter Europas? / Reinhold Kaiser. 1. Aufl. Idstein : Schulz-Kirchner, 1997. Series title: Historisches Seminar (Series) ; n.F., Bd. 10. UCB Main DC64 .K35 1997 3. Oppermann, Hans, 1895- Caesar, Wegbereiter Europas. Gottingen, Musterschmidt [1963, c1958]. Series title: Personlichkeit und Geschichte ; Bd. 10. SRLF A 0008951147 Type EXP SRLF for loan details. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 7 20:30:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA28265 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 20:30:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA20573; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 19:46:58 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA23142 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 19:46:46 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com (imo14.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA23131 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 19:46:44 -0700 (MST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.525dc43d (4597) for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 21:46:04 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.525dc43d.257f2069@aol.com> Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 21:46:01 EST Subject: Re: OT- Ships/IWTV (was Re: H-COST: A dying silk question To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 44 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 12/07/1999 12:30:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, lindo@Radix.Net writes: << Since you mentioned Interview with the Vampire -- did you get a chance to see the Schooner Alexandria when she was in New Orleans for the shoot? She only wound up in about 30 seconds of the film, during the opening credits, but we (volunteer crew) were thrilled that she was used at all. She has since been sold and is unfortunately keeping company with other ships off Cape Hatteras in the aptly-named Graveyard of the Atlantic. >> How sad! I live on the coast of NC and have been to the Outer Banks many times. I remember some 1830s masted ship washed up on a public beach after a storm one fall when we were there. People were flocking to it with chainsaws and cutting chunks off as souvenirs! The police couldn't stop them so they gave everybody parking tickets for parking on the sand and imposed the highest fines. On "Vampire" I worked in the shop from 8:00 AM to 8:00 PM and they filmed from 8:00 PM to 8:00 AM so I never was on set or saw any filming, alas. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 7 20:31:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA28269 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 20:31:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA20727; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 19:48:32 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA23518 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 19:48:29 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d07.mx.aol.com (imo-d07.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA23509 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 19:48:28 -0700 (MST) From: AlbraKat@aol.com Received: from AlbraKat@aol.com by imo-d07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.81518267 (4257) for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 21:47:46 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.81518267.257f20d1@aol.com> Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 21:47:45 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: Pink To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 58 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbraKat@aol.com Thank you Kathlene.I could'nt have said it better. Albra _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 7 20:31:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA28273 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 20:31:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA20709; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 19:48:29 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA23492 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 19:48:24 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA23487 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 19:48:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.230.144] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11vX9R-0000w8-00; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 18:48:22 -0800 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 18:44:13 -0800 To: (Recipient list suppressed) From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: H-COST: Fwd: Widowhood Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" I don't recall if this was a topic on H-Costume or SCA Garb, so I'm posting it to both. I just copycataloged a pbk. copy of this today. It would be a worthwhile read for those with widow-/widower personae from England, Italy, Germany, from a quick skim through. -- Gra/inne / Carol > LCCN: 98-52954 ISBN: 0582317479 (cased) ; 0582317487 (paper : 17.99p. UK) >LC Call#: HQ1058.5.E97 W53 1999 Dewey Decimal #: 305.48/9654/094 2 21 > Widowhood in medieval and early modern Europe / edited by Sandra Cavallo and >Lyndan Warner. Singapore : Longman ; Harlow, U.K. ; New York : Pearson >Education Ltd., c1999. xiii, 272 p. : ill. ; 22 cm. (Women and men in >history) Includes bibliographical references (p. 240-261) and index. >1. Widowhood--Europe--History. 2. Widows--Europe--History. 3. Widowers--Europe--History. >I. Cavallo, Sandra. II. Warner, Lyndan. UC Davis's Zebra ID#: 31175024933973 _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 7 21:05:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA28340 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 21:05:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA24949; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 20:22:02 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA00158 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 20:21:44 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.60]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA00141 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 20:21:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from 216-164-48-126.c3-0.gth-ubr1.lnh-gth.md.cable.rcn.com ([216.164.48.126] helo=pavilion) by smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #3) id 11vXew-0007aa-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 22:20:56 -0500 Message-ID: <016101bf412b$793b6cc0$0200a8c0@pavilion> From: "Megan McHugh" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Fashion in the Age of the Black Prince Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 22:22:28 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Megan McHugh" I seem to recall reading that this book, by Stella Mary Newton, was out. But I just tried Borders.com and Amazon, and they have it listed as back ordered, not out yet. Has it been released? Is there a better place for me to order it from? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 7 21:10:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA28353 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 21:10:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA25344; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 20:25:50 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA00802 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 20:25:47 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA00773 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 20:25:40 -0700 (MST) Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 20:25:40 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 26655 invoked from network); 8 Dec 1999 03:25:29 -0000 Received: from 167.70.3-12.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (HELO JOANJURA) (207.231.70.167) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 8 Dec 1999 03:25:29 -0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19991207192526.3b577fb2@mail2.quiknet.com> X-Sender: joanj@mail2.quiknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: Re: H-COST: Pink Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Joan M Jurancich At 12:38 PM 12/7/99 -0500, Kevin & Mara Riley wrote: > >-Poster: Kevin & Mara Riley [lots of snips] > >They obviously did get pinks, if we can rely on the Tres Riches Heures. >It would be a good idea to look at existing portraits as a guide to what >range of colors was available. I have a picture of a full-length portrait of Sir Francis Drake, painted c. 1580-85, in which he is wearing a full suite of clothes in an intense pink: doublet (satin), venetians (velvet), and netherhose (probably knitted in silk), plus cloak (satin). Said doublet worn with white, slashed sleeves (satin). Cloak is lined with black and the black is edged with wide silver lace; the collar and fronts of the cloak are turned to show the black against the pink cloak. He is wearing white shoes inserted into black pantofles (sp?) to protect them. He is holding a soft black hat (looks like velvet) in his hand. And he is wearing a sword and back dagger (you can see the end of the hilt peeking out on his right side). I would like to see anyone accuse *this* seaman of being weak! Looks to me like this color would merit the label "lusty gallant"! >I think any reenactor ought to get a good book on natural dyes, just to >give them a bit of an eye for the range of colors available. I agree completely, Mara. Too many people have no idea what colors are possible with natural dyestuffs. In many cases today's dyestuffs are simply synthetically produced copies of natural plant dyes; indigo is the prime example but it is not alone. Our ancestors found the best sources for red and blue dyes; all we have done is copy them. One thing to remember, silk takes dyes *much* more intensely than wool. Putting silk and wool samples into the same dyebath can be very instructive. Most of the portraits we are using are of people wearing silk fabrics of one sort or another. Joan Jurancich Sacramento, CA joanj@quiknet.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 7 21:16:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA28361 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 21:16:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA25986; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 20:32:16 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA01900 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 20:32:00 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA01887 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 20:31:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from mercury.physics.adelaide.edu.au (mercury [129.127.36.44]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id OAA21027 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 14:01:48 +1030 (CST) Received: from localhost by mercury.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.65v4.0/1.1.19.2/16Nov99-0332PM) id AA10136; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 14:01:48 +1030 Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 14:01:47 +1030 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant To: costume list Subject: H-COST: partlet q Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: The Purple Elephant Just quickly (this is for something I'd like to have finished by Saturday), can anyone give me an idea of how common partlets without collars were? (Talking the black over-partlet here, not the linen 'is this a shirt or not' sort) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 7 21:54:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA28429 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 21:54:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA29065; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 21:08:16 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA08177 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 21:08:07 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA08159 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 21:08:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([63.26.189.195]) by mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19991208040733.QGAS14377@worldnet.att.net> for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 04:07:33 +0000 Message-ID: <384DD9D5.25C891CA@worldnet.att.net> Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 20:08:53 -0800 From: don and carolyn richardson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-WNS5.0 (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: sewing machine advice requested. References: <4.2.0.58.19991205083536.00965d70@pop.farg.uswest.net> <4.2.0.58.19991207084341.0094ec80@pop.farg.uswest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: don and carolyn richardson Kim Baird wrote: > > -Poster: Kim Baird > > Don't you mean AFTER 1965? > > At 09:40 PM 12/06/1999 -0800, you wrote: > > >-Poster: don and carolyn richardson > > > >I think I'd qualify that - don't buy any Singer machine made before > >1965. A lot of the 40s, 50s and 60s models came in green, pink, or tan > >(featherweights came in all 3 I think, as well as white). Yep. Mea culpa. That should have been *after* 1965. My primary machine is a 1961 Model 500A. I'm thinking of one of the fancy embroidery machines (I was looking at the Janome) but since buying a $20 buttonholer for the slant 500A (on Ebay, a wonderful place), I'm less inclined to spend the nearly $2000 on the model I was looking at. I really only wanted it for buttonholes. Carolyn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 7 22:54:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA28597 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 22:54:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA04204; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 22:09:20 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA17478 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 22:08:51 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from raq.dnsworld.de ([212.98.68.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA17464 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 22:08:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from default (s4m149.dialup.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.8.149]) by raq.dnsworld.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA28739 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 06:08:46 +0100 Message-Id: <199912080508.GAA28739@raq.dnsworld.de> From: "Marquis de Kipar" Organization: L'Age d'Or To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 06:10:17 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: bees Priority: normal References: <199912070620.HAA16755@raq.dnsworld.de> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Marquis de Kipar" Morning Carol, > Nicole-- I found three citations that may have the info. you were citing, > and I believe it's the 1st that's the one-- Carol / Gra/inne > > > 1. Die Franken : Wegbereiter Europas : vor 1500 Jahren, Konig Chlodwig und > seine Erben. Mainz : Verlag P. von Zabern, c1996. > UCB Main DC64 .F73 1996 v.1-2 (1996) > UCLA URL DC 64 F73 1996 > UCSB Arts Lib AEC-83520 Arts > UCSD Art&Arch DC64 .F73 1996 Stacks Yes, exactly, it is this one *S* So you did find it by inter library loan? Fantastic books but... of course in German (I translated quite some now and then for my boyfriend ;-) But the illustrations are worth borrowing it anyway, loads of them. Enjoy! Nicole P.S. If you need the odd picture caption to be translated, just send it over, no problem. ************************ N. Kipar Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs French and English Baroque http://www.kipar.org/ *Vel Exuviae Triumphant* *Triumphant Even In Adversity* marquis@kipar.org _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 7 22:58:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA28612 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 22:58:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA04848; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 22:14:52 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA18632 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 22:14:43 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA18626 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 22:14:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (1Cust193.tnt4.denton.tx.da.uu.net [63.24.200.193]) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA27200 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 21:14:40 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <384DEC30.390F2A66@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 23:27:12 -0600 From: Magdalena X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hist cost Subject: H-COST: quotes was: bees Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Magdalena I'm sorry to take so long in getting back to this. I know it is probably too late for your class sampler, but I thought I'd go ahead and send this out for the future. There is a resource online called the Internet Public Library that has links to all sorts of reference materials. For instance, there are links to about 14 different quote pages in the quotation section (under reference), including a link to Bartlett's online. http://www.ipl.org/ref/ It is a great site. I highly recommend it for quick reference searches. -Magdalena the librarian in training _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 7 23:04:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA28653 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 23:04:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA05501; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 22:21:17 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA20134 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 22:21:13 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA20129 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 22:21:12 -0700 (MST) From: Appin1@aol.com Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.c651ca74 (4317) for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 00:20:36 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.c651ca74.257f44a4@aol.com> Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 00:20:36 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Pink! To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 38 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Appin1@aol.com I have several "color wheel" samples of wool dyed in pre-1600 dyes & mordants. There is a lovely pink dyed with cochineal mordanted with tin ( or dyed in a tin pot). Medieval illuminations (like the Tres Riches Heures) show pink garments next to red ones, so pink was NOT a red that faded, like some have argued. Kathleen Norvell How many costumes do you think I can pack?" --"Start the Revolution without Me" _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 7 23:34:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA28763 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 23:34:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA07902; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 22:52:16 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA24525 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 22:51:57 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from raq.dnsworld.de ([212.98.68.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA24512 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 22:51:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from default (s4m149.dialup.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.8.149]) by raq.dnsworld.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA29032 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 06:51:52 +0100 Message-Id: <199912080551.GAA29032@raq.dnsworld.de> From: "Marquis de Kipar" Organization: L'Age d'Or To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 06:53:23 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: H-COST: 1670s (was Restoration London) Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Marquis de Kipar" Hi Maggie, > Oh these are perfect. Perfect! Now of course if you do happen to run > across anything for mid-70s English, of course I'll want to know. There you go, I put up more engravings into the 1670s section. Including some hunting scenes, which means not the latest fashion is depicted in them. > is grand! The current story is set in '75 (and actually in the Caribbean, > where it's such a pain sifting good material from bad pyrates), but it's It's a safe bet to look at English or French fashion and extrapolate from there. Plus, what came out to be very true is the following: lower/working class costume is always 'old fashioned' in the sense of 'keeping one's best clothing for many years'. Thus if you describe 1660s clothing for the 1670s, it wouldn't be wrong. Of course it was impossible for the people to be dressed according to the latest fashion. Unless, of course, it is a maid or manservant in service of a noble or rich person who would then probably be dressed in a simpler version of their Mistress's/Master's high fashion. A lot like nowadays, when cars are a status symbol, or an expensive leash for a dog. I know this sounds a bit weird now, but it's the best comparison I have available ;-) > Now how an Elizabethan girl like me found herself in the early Baroque is, > well, another story. In any case, I may very well be tugging on your sleeve > for a hint or two in the next few weeks while I finish the last chapter and > refine the rest before turning it over to my agent. Thanks for > volunteering! No problem. *S* oh, and your comment on how people nowadays get the contemporary clothing wrong, hmm... but they were eyewitnesses. Have you actually read Pepys? There are paperbacks available. And his descriptions of what he bought for his wife or for himself are really very detailed, he had a keen interest in clothes. After all, he made a career in Restoration London, and again, clothes for himself and his wife were a status symbol of his upgoing in society. All the best Nicole ************************ N. Kipar Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs French and English Baroque http://www.kipar.org/ *Vel Exuviae Triumphant* *Triumphant Even In Adversity* marquis@kipar.org _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 8 03:48:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA02146 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 03:48:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA21954; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 03:04:44 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA23071 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 03:03:43 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail4.svr.pol.co.uk (mail4.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.211]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA23051 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 03:03:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from modem-155.naso-tang.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.46.155] helo=default) by mail4.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.11 #1) id 11vdwe-0006cl-00 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Wed, 08 Dec 1999 10:03:37 +0000 Message-ID: <005301bf4164$b57768e0$6a21893e@default> From: "Joy Shillaker" To: References: <199912071738.KAA04904@net.indra.com> Subject: H-COST: Re; Pink Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 09:42:11 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Joy Shillaker" Just a thought, but is the 'problem with pink' more to do with terminology rather than wether the colour existed? Without the photographs etc. how else would people describe colours than with reference to known items? Does anyone know when pinks were introduced? (All my fathers pinks are white!) The textile artist who has recreated some of the painted textiles for Hampton court warns of using paintings as evidence for fabric colours. For years I'd been told that orange carrots didn't exist until the 18th century, then one day I was shown a beautiful gardening book from 1638 which described both red and white carrots. The hand coloured illustration was of orange carrots. This got me thinking, as I have two red haired daughters who were curious as to why their orangey blonde hair was called red? Perhaps it's because oranges were relatively rare so the common association of colour with the fruit wasn't used until later? Modern colour descriptions tend to be more mundane anyway. As to bright colours, I finally got to see goose turds! Rather than the muted green I thought goose turd green would be it was a strange bright yellowy green. Joy _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 8 06:33:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA02557 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 06:33:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA27420; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 05:44:49 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA06784 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 05:44:15 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law-f174.hotmail.com [209.185.131.237]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id FAA06778 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 05:44:14 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 66965 invoked by uid 0); 8 Dec 1999 12:43:39 -0000 Message-ID: <19991208124339.66964.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 208.156.3.109 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 08 Dec 1999 04:43:39 PST X-Originating-IP: [208.156.3.109] From: "Susannah Eanes" To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: folly_hill@hotmail.com Subject: H-COST: Old Store Stock Inventory Complete! Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 04:43:39 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Susannah Eanes" Hi guys, Just letting every one know that the Old Store Stock Inventory is complete and we are finalizing the format for the bidding and notification to interested parties. Please let everyone who is interested (or might be) know that bidding is scheduled to be from Jan. 1, 2000 to Jan. 15, 2000. There will be a viewing date tentatively scheduled for Wednesday, Jan. 5, 2000 where people can come and see the merchandise before they submit a bid. There are over 3000 items, divided into over 300 lots of like components. Bids will be accepted for individual lots (thes are mostly groups of 10 or so like items) or the entire inventory, which is valued at well over $30,000. Minimum bids will be posted, and the owner of the inventory reserves the right to reject all bids if the minimum is not met. Winning bidders will be notified within 3 days after the bidding closes Jan. 15. Payment will be in cashier's check, money order, or wired funds. Personal checks will be held for 14 business days to clear. Reasonable shipping charges will be added unless prior arrangements are made. Again, a list of items in the inventory includes: (all items c. 1890 - 1940, unsold overstock from TofC General Store) Corsets & girdles Stockings - silk, wool, and cotton Gloves & mittens - cotton, rayon, silk, and wool types Hats (knitted & leather caps, mostly) Ladies' shirtwaists Men's pants & shirts Children's clothing Boxed shoes - mostly ladies, some childrens Unboxed shoes & boots - men's, women's, children's Galoshes Sewing supplies - thread, notions, buckles, etc. Millinery ribbon - rayon and silk Underwear - incl. nainsook bocker sets, silky rayon tap pants, wool long johns, all types 2 thread cabinets w/ unsold silk thread in mint condition Wool & wool blend sweaters - many in unbelievably great condition - men's, women's, children's If you are interested and have not yet notified me, please do so now so that I can see you get a copy of the inventory & photos of the merchandise. Please pass this on to the vintage costume mailing list, as I do not subscribe and I know there are people out there who need this stuff. I will post a message to the list when the final dates & arrangements are made, within the next week or two. So stay tuned! Thanks, Susannah "We are only the trustees for those who come after us." --William Morris ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 8 07:18:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA02645 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 07:18:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA29623; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 06:32:47 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA12246 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 06:32:34 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from gate.garden.net (gate.tellurian.net [216.182.1.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA12240 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 06:32:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from ouppc ([209.118.2.56]) by gate.garden.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 0-32330L200S2000) with SMTP id AAA114 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 08:31:57 -0500 Message-ID: <009301bf4180$3c3e5300$80f4fea9@ouppc> From: "Kerrie Lyons" To: References: <19991208124339.66964.qmail@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: Old Store Stock Inventory Complete! Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 08:29:18 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Kerrie Lyons" ----- Original Message ----- From: Susannah Eanes Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 1999 7:43 AM > Hi guys, > Just letting every one know that the Old Store Stock Inventory is complete > and we are finalizing the format for the bidding and notification to > interested parties. Oh hooray! I have been _waiting_ for these. ;-) > > Please pass this on to the vintage costume mailing list, as I do not > subscribe and I know there are people out there who need this stuff. I'll be happy to.....or wait...that would mean more competition....hmm....*grin* Okay, okay, I listened to the good angel on my shoulder and just did it. =) Can't wait to see everything! Kerrie (who will now be saving every penny that falls into her Christmas stocking) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 8 07:52:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA02667 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 07:52:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA02709; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 07:07:04 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA16722 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 07:06:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA16708 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 07:06:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA17621 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 09:06:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA18291 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 09:07:16 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 09:07:15 -0500 (EST) From: aleed To: costume list Subject: Re: H-COST: partlet q In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: aleed In Flanders in the 1550s to 1570s, they were very commonly worn by peasants, marketwomen, and others working outdoors. In Flemish genre paintings of the time, most women are shown either wearing a black partlet with a flared collar, or a white partlet of the same shape. Partlets with ruffs attached to a collar band began appearing in late 1560s paintings, and were ubiquitous in paintings of the 1570s. These partlets were a feather of lower-class or servants' dress; I haven't seen them worn with upper class or merchant class dress in the 1570s. Hope this helps, Drea On Wed, 8 Dec 1999, The Purple Elephant wrote: > > -Poster: The Purple Elephant > > Just quickly (this is for something I'd like to have finished by > Saturday), can anyone give me an idea of how common partlets > without collars were? (Talking the black over-partlet here, not the > linen 'is this a shirt or not' sort) > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, > Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" > and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson > friendly substance. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 8 08:03:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA02686 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 08:03:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA03734; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 07:18:43 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA18593 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 07:18:38 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA18585 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 07:18:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA01736 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 09:18:34 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 09:18:32 -0500 (EST) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Pink In-Reply-To: <199912080133.SAA10350@net.indra.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kevin & Mara Riley On Tue, 7 Dec 1999, K & J Hopkins wrote: > Who is they? When? Where? This is too much of a generalization > > Again, I just can't bring myself to believe that, somewhere on this vast > planet, over the last 2000 or more years, neon-like pink was not at one > time or another, all the rage. Just because we as modern humans with all > of our knowledge, machines and science, don't know about it, doesn't make > it not so. > > There is a philosophy whose basic principle is, "There is nothing new under > the sun." It is most accurate when applied to fashion. > > Kathlene Maybe. BUT -- research and document! You could use the same argument that camoflauge fatigue-cloth was surely all the rage somewhere, sometime in the past... and then use it to justify making 16th c. garb out of it. I know that's not your intention, but... There ARE new things, and we DO need to figure out what's appropriate for our period before doing it. The people who assume that some things are not period without doing their research and the people who assume that some things are period without doing their research are both at fault. We need a careful balance between 'Nobody has ever done that' and 'Surely somebody did that', and that balance is mediated by research. Cheers, Mara _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 8 08:05:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA02690 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 08:05:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA03983; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 07:22:42 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA19316 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 07:22:37 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA19302 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 07:22:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA02421 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 09:22:33 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 09:22:31 -0500 (EST) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: OT- Ships/IWTV (was Re: H-COST: A dying silk question In-Reply-To: <0.525dc43d.257f2069@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kevin & Mara Riley On Tue, 7 Dec 1999 AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > How sad! I live on the coast of NC and have been to the Outer Banks many > times. I remember some 1830s masted ship washed up on a public beach after a > storm one fall when we were there. People were flocking to it with chainsaws > and cutting chunks off as souvenirs! The police couldn't stop them so they > gave everybody parking tickets for parking on the sand and imposed the > highest fines. > > On "Vampire" I worked in the shop from 8:00 AM to 8:00 PM and they filmed > from 8:00 PM to 8:00 AM so I never was on set or saw any filming, alas. Ugh -- I hate to hear about people doing that. We have so little respect for our sailing heritage... The Alexandria was built in 1929, a traditional Baltic schooner, so she's not as big a loss as, say, a historic vessel. They're still building ships like her in the Baltic, I'm happy to say. I know Anne Rice fans had problems with IWTV, but the movie (and our ship's involvement with it) at least got me to read her books! I'd never heard of her before. Great costumes :D -- Mara _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 8 08:10:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA02696 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 08:10:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA04236; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 07:25:50 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA19873 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 07:25:45 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.3]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA19859 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 07:25:43 -0700 (MST) From: AlbraKat@aol.com Received: from AlbraKat@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.34441c57 (4260) for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 09:25:08 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.34441c57.257fc444@aol.com> Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 09:25:08 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: Re; Pink To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 58 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbraKat@aol.com It could very well be a terminology thing.As you say, with regard to the REAL, fresh from the goose 'goose turd green', in particular---it looks rather shockingly like the 'acid' or 'lime' or 'pistachio' green that made it's revival in fashion circles of late:) albra _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 8 08:12:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA02700 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 08:12:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA04529; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 07:29:12 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA20467 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 07:29:08 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA20459 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 07:29:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA03490 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 09:29:02 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 09:29:01 -0500 (EST) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Pink In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19991207192526.3b577fb2@mail2.quiknet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kevin & Mara Riley On Tue, 7 Dec 1999, Joan M Jurancich wrote: > > At 12:38 PM 12/7/99 -0500, Kevin & Mara Riley wrote: > > > >-Poster: Kevin & Mara Riley > [lots of snips] > > > >They obviously did get pinks, if we can rely on the Tres Riches Heures. > >It would be a good idea to look at existing portraits as a guide to what > >range of colors was available. > > I have a picture of a full-length portrait of Sir Francis Drake, painted c. > 1580-85, in which he is wearing a full suite of clothes in an intense pink: > doublet (satin), venetians (velvet), and netherhose (probably knitted in > silk), plus cloak (satin). Said doublet worn with white, slashed sleeves > (satin) (snips) Certainly sounds interesting! And like I said, it's pretty clear that pinks were available... but I still think that 'neon' is a bit much. > >I think any reenactor ought to get a good book on natural dyes, just to > >give them a bit of an eye for the range of colors available. > > I agree completely, Mara. Too many people have no idea what colors are > possible with natural dyestuffs. In many cases today's dyestuffs are simply > synthetically produced copies of natural plant dyes; indigo is the prime > example but it is not alone. Our ancestors found the best sources for red > and blue dyes; all we have done is copy them. > > One thing to remember, silk takes dyes *much* more intensely than wool. > Putting silk and wool samples into the same dyebath can be very instructive. > Most of the portraits we are using are of people wearing silk fabrics of one > sort or another. > > Joan Jurancich > Sacramento, CA > joanj@quiknet.com Point taken. However, I disagree that modern synthetic dyes are usually copies of natural dyes. I'm thinking in particular of a gawd-awful piece of neon-green woolen fabric, the posessor of whom will remain nameless. I refuse to believe that that neon green was acheivable in the 18th century, on wool. I've never seen a similar shade in any period portraits, and I don't think I could even begin to duplicate it using natural dyes. Fortunately, such lapses in color judgement are rare :D Usually I fall on the side of the argument that says we would be simply amazed at the wonderful and creative things our ancestors could do. But that simply MUST be tempered with caution and research. Cheers, Mara _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 8 08:14:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA02713 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 08:14:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA04711; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 07:30:32 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA20759 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 07:30:29 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA20744 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 07:30:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA03790 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 09:30:25 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 09:30:24 -0500 (EST) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: costume list Subject: H-COST: Banyan question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kevin & Mara Riley Can anyone point me to pictures on the web, or instructions, for a man's dressing gown from the mid-1700s? Thanks, Mara _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 8 08:18:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA02720 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 08:18:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA05134; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 07:34:23 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA21475 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 07:34:18 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA21463 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 07:34:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA04394 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 09:34:15 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 09:34:14 -0500 (EST) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Pink! In-Reply-To: <0.c651ca74.257f44a4@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kevin & Mara Riley We did a cochineal/tin sample at a workshop I took last year, and got a shockingly bright shade of pink. Quite lovely! (But I still wouldn't call it neon ) Cheers, Mara On Wed, 8 Dec 1999 Appin1@aol.com wrote: > > -Poster: Appin1@aol.com > > I have several "color wheel" samples of wool dyed in pre-1600 dyes & > mordants. There is a lovely pink dyed with cochineal mordanted with tin ( or > dyed in a tin pot). Medieval illuminations (like the Tres Riches Heures) show > pink garments next to red ones, so pink was NOT a red that faded, like some > have argued. > > Kathleen Norvell > How many costumes do you think I can pack?" > --"Start the Revolution without Me" > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 8 08:33:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA02799 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 08:33:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA06543; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 07:47:43 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA23742 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 07:47:24 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from gate.garden.net (gate.tellurian.net [216.182.1.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA23733 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 07:47:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from ouppc ([209.118.2.56]) by gate.garden.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 0-32330L200S2000) with SMTP id AAA497 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 09:46:44 -0500 Message-ID: <007e01bf418a$b11ca500$80f4fea9@ouppc> From: "Kerrie Lyons" To: References: Subject: H-COST: Very OT Historical Ships (was- Ships/IWTV) Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 09:44:00 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Kerrie Lyons" ----- Original Message ----- From: Kevin & Mara Riley Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 1999 9:22 AM From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 8 08:34:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA02804 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 08:34:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA06841; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 07:49:46 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA24179 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 07:49:42 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.70]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA24157 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 07:49:38 -0700 (MST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.295447c9 (4360) for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 09:48:56 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.295447c9.257fc9d8@aol.com> Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 09:48:56 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: Banyan question To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 45 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AnnBWass@aol.com Claudia Kidwell's article on short gowns, in Dress, vol. 4 (1978) shows directions from M. de Garsault for a "manteau-de-lit." You should be able to find the volume in a good university library. Back issues are also available from the Costume Society of America: www.costumesocietyamerica.com. A banyan was basically just a longer version of a short gown. The milliners/tailor at Colonial Williamsburg have made a reproduction of a banyan in their collection. I'm not sure if they have information available on how to do it. Ann Wass _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 8 08:45:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA02837 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 08:45:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA09276; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 08:01:00 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA26141 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 08:00:08 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.mlt.net (mail.mlt.net [209.168.11.73]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA26130 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 08:00:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from Mackie.com ([209.168.18.190]) by mail.mlt.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52697U300L100S0V35) with SMTP id net for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 06:57:00 -0800 Received: from Mackie-Message_Server by Mackie.com with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 08 Dec 1999 07:00:12 -0800 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.2 Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 06:59:30 -0800 From: "Colleen McDonald Hinrichs" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Fashion in the Age of the Black Prince Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id IAA26133 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Colleen McDonald Hinrichs" The book is just now arriving in publisher Boydell & Brewer's US warehouse. It was originally supposed to be published in September, but was delayed. You can reach them at: Boydell & Brewer PO Box 41026, Rochester NY 14604 P (716) 275-0419 F (716) 271-8778 www.boydell.co.uk Regards, Colleen McDonald Hinrichs >>> "Megan McHugh" 12/07 7:22 PM >>> -Poster: "Megan McHugh" I seem to recall reading that this book, by Stella Mary Newton, was out. But I just tried Borders.com and Amazon, and they have it listed as back ordered, not out yet. Has it been released? Is there a better place for me to order it from? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 8 09:46:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA02886 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 09:46:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA16455; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 09:03:09 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA10470 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 09:02:50 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.70]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA10452 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 09:02:47 -0700 (MST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.6a47d17e (4260) for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 11:02:15 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.6a47d17e.257fdb06@aol.com> Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 11:02:14 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: Banyan question To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 44 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 12/08/1999 9:32:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, lindo@Radix.Net writes: << Can anyone point me to pictures on the web, or instructions, for a man's dressing gown from the mid-1700s? >> I have a picture of 3 men all in Banyans in a Metro. Museum bulletin I can try to scan and send you. [We got the procedure down for that 1770s coat thread] The early one is a T shaped tunic! out of fantastic Indian silk. The later ones in the group are tailored somewhat like a mans coat. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 8 10:31:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02929 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 10:31:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23227; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 09:48:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA23639 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 09:48:21 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from eclipse.pacifier.com (eclipse.pacifier.com [199.2.117.78]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23627 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 09:48:19 -0700 (MST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: from grendal2 (ip212.van18.pacifier.com [216.65.137.212]) by eclipse.pacifier.com (8.9.3/8.9.3pop) with SMTP id IAA20239 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 08:48:11 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199912081648.IAA20239@eclipse.pacifier.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 08:51:10 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: Re; Pink Priority: normal In-reply-to: <005301bf4164$b57768e0$6a21893e@default> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > Just a thought, but is the 'problem with pink' more to do with terminology > rather than wether the colour existed? Without the photographs etc. how else > would people describe colours than with reference to known items? Does > anyone know when pinks were introduced? (All my fathers pinks are white!) Pinks by the 16th century were a range of colors but what we now call pink is one of them (as can be seen by portraits of the time). Tudor times was one of the first times when pink as a color for clothing was popular (the ones in Tres Riche Heurs being a rarity, not a common color at the time). They became more popular as you get to Elizabethan times. They were probably made with either lichens (for small amounts such as used in embroidery or tapestries) and either madder or kermes (madder giving a more brick pink) pre1500, then cochineal after 1500. > The textile artist who has recreated some of the painted textiles for > Hampton court warns of using paintings as evidence for fabric colours. You can find pink in tapestries from the time periods pre1600 and there are color descriptions in manuscripts which help as well. Manuscripts, wills and inventories give us an idea of how common colors were. > For years I'd been told that orange carrots didn't exist until the 18th > century, then one day I was shown a beautiful gardening book from 1638 which > described both red and white carrots. The hand coloured illustration was of > orange carrots. As far as carrots are concerned, we know exactly when the mutation for the gene arrived. Until shortly after 1600 (I forget the exact date. It's either 1604 or 1607) there were yellow, white and purple carrots. There was a new mutation which was so dominant, it became just about the only color available. Although you can sometimes find seeds for white carrots (which look more like parsnips but taste like carrots) in catalogs which specialize in "old varieties", you can't get the yellow or purple anymore. Also, if you grow the white ones anywhere near where there are orange ones, the next years seeds are going to grow orange ones. (Been there, done that.) This got me thinking, as I have two red haired daughters who > were curious as to why their orangey blonde hair was called red? Perhaps > it's because oranges were relatively rare so the common association of > colour with the fruit wasn't used until later? Modern colour descriptions > tend to be more mundane anyway. I do know that red hair has been called that from fairly early in history. I come from a very red headed family (which is a recessessive gene but that didn't seem to make a difference in our family.) Our family got its name (Russell) from the french for red in early medieval times. In reading about the family, the "red" is described in many shades from pink to russet to tawny to flaming and many others I'd have to dig out too many sheets of paper to list. I don't know when they started describing it as "orange" or "carroty" but it's probably fairly recent. I think what this whole discussion boils down to is that: 1. even when they could get the color, it wasn't necessarily used. Our modern aethetics doesn't match what they would have liked and what they liked changed from year to year (sometimes regulated by the guilds so that even if you liked it, it wouldn't have been available.) Also even if *you* liked it, you wouldn't be caught dead wearing it because we can get away with individuality now in a way that didn't happen in most other period in Europe. 2. do the research. Don't assume that something popular in 1580 was popular in 1550, let alone 1800 or in 1200, even if you like it. Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 8 12:26:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA03095 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 12:26:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11698; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 11:43:41 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA11776 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 10:48:11 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail-out2.apple.com (mail-out2.apple.com [17.254.0.51]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA11683 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 10:47:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailgate1.apple.com (A17-128-100-225.apple.com [17.128.100.225]) by mail-out2.apple.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA11775 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 09:47:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from scv2.apple.com (scv2.apple.com) by mailgate1.apple.com (mailgate1.apple.com- SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id for ; Wed, 08 Dec 1999 09:47:52 -0800 Received: from [17.202.21.54] (decamp.apple.com [17.202.21.54]) by scv2.apple.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA06876 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 09:47:51 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199912081747.JAA06876@scv2.apple.com> Subject: H-COST: partlets Date: Wed, 8 Dec 99 09:47:34 -0800 x-sender: gdecamp@shell12.ba.best.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 From: "Gail K. DeCamp" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Gail K. DeCamp" I have seen plenty of pictures of these. This is from memory, I can go home and look up artists and dates if you want. (I lectured on this at last year's Celebrate History convention, and I still have the slides from that.) When: 1540-1580 Where: Lowlands (roughly, belgium IIRC) On Who: Mainly I found these in pictures of women who were well, but not richly, dressed. I found black over-partlets worn with red bodices and skirts, and the women also had white linen stomachers and head coverings. cheers, Gail DeCamp >- -Poster: The Purple Elephant > >Just quickly (this is for something I'd like to have finished by >Saturday), can anyone give me an idea of how common partlets >without collars were? (Talking the black over-partlet here, not the >linen 'is this a shirt or not' sort) Dogs come when you call them. Cats have answering machines. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 8 12:26:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA03099 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 12:26:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11454; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 11:42:36 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA29292 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 10:08:16 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.nightowl.net (mail.nightowl.net [207.124.43.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29264 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 10:08:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (robin@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by mail.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA25542 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 11:18:20 -0600 Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA28910 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 12:15:56 -0600 Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 12:15:56 -0600 (EST) From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re; Pink In-Reply-To: <005301bf4164$b57768e0$6a21893e@default> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Robin Netherton On Wed, 8 Dec 1999, Joy Shillaker wrote: > Just a thought, but is the 'problem with pink' more to do with terminology > rather than wether the colour existed? I always figured that the myth that "Pink isn't period" came from a misinterpretation of the fact that the *word* pink wasn't period (at least not in SCA/Faire periods). The word comes from the name of the flower, which itself was named for its ragged edges (using the earlier meaning of the word "pink," as in pinked edges). It's been a while since I looked this up, so I don't have the dates of the word origins handy, but they're in the OED, among other places. Anyway, I figure the current misunderstanding may have gone like this (over the course of time): Person One: "Did you know the word `pink' isn't period?" Person Two: "Person One says `pink' isn't period." Rest of flock: "Pink isn't period!" Person One may have been a well-read book or article, for that matter. I don't think there's much question that the *color* pink existed. It just wasn't called "pink." --Robin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 8 12:40:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA03131 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 12:40:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA14319; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 11:59:14 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA03007 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 11:58:54 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from luna.worldonline.nl (luna.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.131]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02994 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 11:58:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by luna.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA23736 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 19:58:41 +0100 (MET) Received: from henk (vp234-112.worldonline.nl [195.241.234.112]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA00166 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 19:58:31 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <007801bf41ae$02ed8a20$70eaf1c3@henk> From: "Henk 't Jong - tScapreel" To: References: <199912081648.IAA20239@eclipse.pacifier.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: Re; Pink Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 19:25:05 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Henk 't Jong - tScapreel" Hi List, Kat wrote: > Pinks by the 16th century were a range of colors but what we now call > pink is one of them (as can be seen by portraits of the time). Tudor > times was one of the first times when pink as a color for clothing > was popular (the ones in Tres Riche Heurs being a rarity, not a > common color at the time). Just recently I have browsed through thousands of miniatures, mostly in black and white, because the books which published the manuscripts in facsimile at the time (pre World War II) were not in colour, but also lots of them in colour (especially the more recent facsimile's). Apart from such well known MSS as the Maciejowski Bible, the Manesse Codex and The Luttrell Psalter and the Romance of Alexander, there are hundreds more of my period (1250-1350). I can assure you, that lots of cottes, surcottes and several other types of overcoats and mantles are painted in pinks. Of course manuscript colours are not the same as cloth dyes and a painter might have a limited palette, but IMO pink was a pretty common colour before 1400. It might be a costly wool or silk for a noble or rich merchant, or a faded red (Dutch people are mentioned to wear red a lot before 1500) with peasants or artisans, but they are depicted in pinks, yes sir! Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 8 12:50:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA03155 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 12:50:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA15352; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 12:06:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA05126 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 12:06:26 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from kuku.excite.com (kuku-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.63]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05099 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 12:06:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from bernie.excite.com ([199.172.148.157]) by kuku.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP id <19991208190511.FAYA19682.kuku.excite.com@bernie.excite.com> for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 11:05:11 -0800 Message-ID: <22687984.944679911673.JavaMail.imail@bernie.excite.com> Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 11:05:11 -0800 (PST) From: StitchWitch To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Fwd: Hands-On WOrkshops (fwd) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 144.163.130.106 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: StitchWitch As this is on the East Coast, I won't be able to attend. However, if some of you who are closer happen to drop by, I'd be interested in a review of this event. > -----fwd-------- > Subject: Hands-On WOrkshops > > Crafts and skills from Eastern Europe and the Balkans will be featured > at the upcoming Celebration 2000 conference, held at Tompkins Cortland > Community college, May 12,13,14, 2000. > > Participants will be able to actually make Polish papercuttings, paint > Silesian wood ornaments and learn Czech and Slovak folkdance. They will > see demonstrations of Russian woodcarving, Ukrainian and Ruthenian egg > decoration and learn about Hungarian folk textiles. The workshops will > take place on Friday afternoon, May 12 from 12-3 and from 3-5pm. Sign up > now for these workshops. During the afternoon, videos on folk crafts and > life will be shown to those not participating in the workshops. > > Famed dancers, Jeanette and Don Pafko will demonstrate folk dances from > the Czech and Slovak republics in the dance studio. Then, participants > will learn dance steps and try out folk dances. At the same time, > Professor Nicolai Klimaczewski will demonstrate Russian woodcarving. Nic > has restored several local Orthodox churches. In the art studio > Professor Mary Kelly, who spent several summers in Krakow will show her > collection of Polish papercuttings, demonstrate and help participants to > make their own papercuttings using traditional methods. > > During the later session, California painter Marilyn Brown demonstrate > Silesian folk painting and help students to paint a wood ornament. At > the same time, Binghamton artist Kathy Tatich, will show her collection > of Rusyn and Ukrainian eggs and demonstrate the wax batik and scratch > methods of decorating and dyeing them. FInally Hungarian textile artist > Eniko Farkas will discuss embroidery and lacemaking tehniques of her > native land, augmenting her presentation with pieces from her personal > collection. > > After the workshops, an art opening the the college Board Room gallery > will feature the photography show "Sisters to Amazons", folk dress and > life in the Volga region of Chuvashia, Russia. Chuvash ethnographer > Valentina Elem will be present during the opening and will bring with > her many spectacular pieces from her collection of folkdress. > > the evening will conclude with a Parade of Folkdress organized and > narrated by Helene CIncebeaux, of Rochester, NY. Constumes from each of > the regions highlighted by the conference will be modeled by their > owners. The conference is sponsored by the Department of Humanities. > Pleases direct inquiries to Sandra Pollack, alternate coordinator at the > college pollacs@sunytccc.edu. > > Kate ---- StitchWitch Unseen in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove. - P.G. Wodehouse, 1930 _______________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 8 12:53:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA03183 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 12:53:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA15678; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 12:08:06 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA05589 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 12:08:02 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05578 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 12:08:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA16177 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 11:08:22 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <384EACD9.11059EC2@serv.net> Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 11:09:14 -0800 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Manuscript books (was Re; Pink) References: <199912081648.IAA20239@eclipse.pacifier.com> <007801bf41ae$02ed8a20$70eaf1c3@henk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > Just recently I have browsed through thousands of miniatures, mostly in > black and white, because the books which published the manuscripts in > facsimile at the time (pre World War II) were not in colour, but also lots > of them in colour (especially the more recent facsimile's). Apart from such > well known MSS as the Maciejowski Bible, the Manesse Codex and The Luttrell > Psalter and the Romance of Alexander, there are hundreds more of my period > (1250-1350). Henk, I have looked and looked and can't find the Romance of Alexander or the Manesse Codex. Which leads me to believe that the books are titled differently. I would so love some titles or your book list or something along those lines. Can you do this? Merouda -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of AnTir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 8 13:08:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA03234 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 13:08:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA18440; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 12:27:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA10803 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 12:26:54 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from gate.garden.net (gate.tellurian.net [216.182.1.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA10783 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 12:26:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from ouppc ([209.118.5.58]) by gate.garden.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 0-32330L200S2000) with SMTP id AAA216 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 14:26:11 -0500 Message-ID: <005b01bf41b1$b83410e0$80f4fea9@ouppc> From: "Kerrie Lyons" To: Subject: H-COST: Very OT Historical Ships (was- Ships/IWTV) Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 14:23:15 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0056_01BF4187.C444D920" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Kerrie Lyons" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0056_01BF4187.C444D920 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mabel Allo everyone! I posted this to the list earlier, but when it arrived in my inbox the = entire message was blank. If it didn't come in that way for anyone else = I apologise for the re-run but I thought I'd re-send it just in case. = =3D)=20 ----- Original Message ----- From: Kevin & Mara Riley Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 1999 9:22 AM From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 8 13:18:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA03258 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 13:18:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22033; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 12:36:48 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA13522 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 12:36:18 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ntserver1.mainsaver.com ([206.17.202.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA13507 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 12:36:16 -0700 (MST) Received: by HP-LH3 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 11:27:30 -0800 Message-ID: <5B38B8D7EED8D211997F00A0C9E57FB91DB68C@HP-LH3> From: MAGGIE SECARA To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Re; Pink Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 11:27:29 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MAGGIE SECARA > ---------- > From: Robin Netherton[SMTP:robin@shell.nightowl.net] > Reply To: h-costume@indra.com > Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 1999 10:15 AM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: Re; Pink > > > -Poster: Robin Netherton > > > Person One: "Did you know the word `pink' isn't period?" > Person Two: "Person One says `pink' isn't period." > Rest of flock: "Pink isn't period!" > > Person One may have been a well-read book or article, for that matter. > Uh-hunh. The folk process in action! That's exactly what happens. Or someone says "buttons aren't period" or pockets or any number of things. Sometimes they mean "we don't want you to use them" but they don't trust their people, or think everyone is dumb, or what people remember (because someone of them weren't paying attention) and what remains is "it isn't period." Sad but true. This is probably how someone arrived at the "knowledge" that metal isn't period, too. :) MaggiRos _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 8 13:30:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA03267 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 13:30:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24458; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 12:48:20 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA16877 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 12:47:52 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.wa.home.com [24.0.2.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA16865 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 12:47:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from [24.9.58.36] by mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991208194749.TWJR20526.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 11:47:49 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.0c (197) Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 11:52:24 -0800 Subject: FW: H-COST: Re: Fashion in the Age of the Black Prince From: "R.L. Shep" To: "h-costume" Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19991208194749.TWJR20526.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "R.L. Shep" Here is some info I got on the availability of this book. ~!~ R.L.Shep http://www.rlshep.com ---------- From: Irene Joshi To: "R.L. Shep" Subject: Re: FW: H-COST: Re: Fashion in the Age of the Black Prince Date: Wed, Dec 8, 1999, 11:25 AM Barnes and Noble lists as available in 1-2 weeks. $28.00 Amazon.co.uk lists as shipped in 24 hours. pds. 15.99. This is a reprint of 1980. Irene Joshi, M.L.S. South Asia Librarian Box 352900 University of Washington Seattle, WA 98195-2900 http://www.lib.washington.edu/subject/SouthAsia/ Committee on South Asia Libraries and Documentation http://www.lib.virginia.edu/area-studies/SouthAsia/Lib/consald.html On Wed, 8 Dec 1999, R.L. Shep wrote: > Isn't this your area?? > Robb > ~!~ R.L.Shep > http://www.rlshep.com > > ---------- > From: "Megan McHugh" > To: > Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Fashion in the Age of the Black Prince > Date: Tue, Dec 7, 1999, 7:22 PM > > > > -Poster: "Megan McHugh" > > I seem to recall reading that this book, by Stella Mary Newton, was out. > But I just tried Borders.com and Amazon, and they have it listed as back > ordered, not out yet. Has it been released? Is there a better place for me > to order it from? > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 8 13:30:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA03271 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 13:30:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23863; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 12:44:44 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA15710 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 12:44:06 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from gate.garden.net (gate.tellurian.net [216.182.1.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA15676 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 12:44:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from ouppc ([209.118.5.58]) by gate.garden.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 0-32330L200S2000) with SMTP id AAA299 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 14:43:16 -0500 Message-ID: <008501bf41b4$1b5c0f40$80f4fea9@ouppc> From: "Kerrie Lyons" To: Subject: H-COST: Very OT Historical Ships (was- Ships/IWTV) Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 14:40:25 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0080_01BF418A.29F9EB00" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Kerrie Lyons" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0080_01BF418A.29F9EB00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MabelAllo everyone! I posted this to the list earlier, but when it arrived in my inbox the = entire message was blank. If it didn't come in that way for anyone else = I apologise for the re-run but I thought I'd re-send it just in case. = =3D)=20 ----- Original Message ----- From: Kevin & Mara Riley Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 1999 9:22 AM > Ugh -- I hate to hear about people doing that. We have so little = respect > for our sailing heritage... This is too true! Anyone in or near Philadelphia, who's interested in = such things, might like to know that the beautiful S.S. United States is = sitting forlornly at pier 82. Even though she's been stripped of all her fittings, her paint is faded = and she's all but covered in rust, she is still one of the most breathtaking sights I've ever seen. We make it a point to drive by the pier and = "visit" whenever we go downtown. =3D) There is an effort in motion to try to have this ship restored to her = old glory, please visit Mike Alexander's website at: http://www.ss-united-states.com/ . He's got some wonderful pictures, = both before and after, and an incredible amount of information. Cheers! Kerrie ------=_NextPart_000_0080_01BF418A.29F9EB00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mabel
Allo everyone!
I posted this to the list = earlier, but when=20 it arrived in my inbox the entire message was blank.  If it didn't = come in=20 that way for anyone else I apologise for the re-run but I thought I'd = re-send it=20 just in case. =3D)

----- Original Message = -----
From:=20 Kevin & Mara Riley <lindo@Radix.Net>
Sent: = Wednesday,=20 December 08, 1999 9:22 AM

> Ugh -- I hate to hear about people = doing=20 that.  We have so little respect
> for our sailing=20 heritage...

This is too true!  Anyone in or near = Philadelphia, who's=20 interested in such
things, might like to know that the beautiful S.S. = United=20 States is sitting
forlornly at pier 82.
Even though she's been = stripped of=20 all her fittings, her paint is faded and
she's all but covered in = rust, she=20 is still one of the most breathtaking
sights I've ever seen.  We = make it=20 a point to drive by the pier and "visit"
whenever we go = downtown. =20 =3D)
There is an effort in motion to try to have this ship restored = to her=20 old
glory, please visit Mike Alexander's website at:
http://www.ss-united-states.com= /=20 .  He's got some wonderful pictures, both
before and after, and = an=20 incredible amount of=20 information.

Cheers!
Kerrie
------=_NextPart_000_0080_01BF418A.29F9EB00-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 8 13:52:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA03292 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 13:52:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA27581; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 13:10:16 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA22934 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 13:10:04 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from delphi.qrc.com (atlantis.qrc.com [198.178.200.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA22892 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 13:09:59 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 1421 invoked from network); 8 Dec 1999 20:30:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO his.com) (192.168.110.101) by delphi.qrc.com with SMTP; 8 Dec 1999 20:30:23 -0000 Message-ID: <384EBBAC.A52D8A2D@his.com> Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 15:12:36 -0500 From: Lola Lee X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en,ru MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: Fwd: Hands-On WOrkshops (fwd) References: <199912081944.MAA15825@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lola Lee > > Crafts and skills from Eastern Europe and the Balkans will be featured > > at the upcoming Celebration 2000 conference, held at Tompkins Cortland > > Community college, May 12,13,14, 2000. > > Where is this community college? State? City? I'd like to forward this to a couple of religious email lists that I'm on. -- Lola J. Lee QRC work - llee@qrc.com http://www.qrc.com/ home - lola@his.com http://www.his.com/~lola/ljl.html _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 8 13:55:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA03305 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 13:55:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28269; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 13:14:15 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA24031 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 13:14:12 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ntserver1.mainsaver.com ([206.17.202.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24017 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 13:14:09 -0700 (MST) Received: by HP-LH3 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 12:05:24 -0800 Message-ID: <5B38B8D7EED8D211997F00A0C9E57FB91DB698@HP-LH3> From: MAGGIE SECARA To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Very OT Historical Ships (was- Ships/IWTV) Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 12:05:23 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MAGGIE SECARA Oh, but this time it came through! How odd! Nevermind, MaggiRos > ---------- > From: Kerrie Lyons[SMTP:kerrielyons@tellurian.net] > Reply To: h-costume@indra.com > Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 1999 11:40 AM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: H-COST: Very OT Historical Ships (was- Ships/IWTV) > > Allo everyone! > I posted this to the list earlier, but when it arrived in my inbox the > entire message was blank. If it didn't come in that way for anyone else I > apologise for the re-run but I thought I'd re-send it just in case. =) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kevin & Mara Riley < lindo@Radix.Net> > Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 1999 9:22 AM > > > Ugh -- I hate to hear about people doing that. We have so little > respect > > for our sailing heritage... > > This is too true! Anyone in or near Philadelphia, who's interested in > such > things, might like to know that the beautiful S.S. United States is > sitting > forlornly at pier 82. > Even though she's been stripped of all her fittings, her paint is faded > and > she's all but covered in rust, she is still one of the most breathtaking > sights I've ever seen. We make it a point to drive by the pier and > "visit" > whenever we go downtown. =) > There is an effort in motion to try to have this ship restored to her old > glory, please visit Mike Alexander's website at: > http://www.ss-united-states.com/ . He's got some wonderful pictures, both > before and after, and an incredible amount of information. > > Cheers! > Kerrie > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 8 13:56:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA03312 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 13:56:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28046; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 13:13:28 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA23831 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 13:13:25 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ntserver1.mainsaver.com ([206.17.202.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA23804 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 13:13:22 -0700 (MST) Received: by HP-LH3 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 12:04:33 -0800 Message-ID: <5B38B8D7EED8D211997F00A0C9E57FB91DB697@HP-LH3> From: MAGGIE SECARA To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Very OT Historical Ships (was- Ships/IWTV) Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 12:04:32 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MAGGIE SECARA Kerrie, it's still all blank. :( MaggiRos > ---------- > From: Kerrie Lyons[SMTP:kerrielyons@tellurian.net] > Reply To: h-costume@indra.com > Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 1999 11:23 AM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: H-COST: Very OT Historical Ships (was- Ships/IWTV) > > Mabel > Allo everyone! > I posted this to the list earlier, but when it arrived in my inbox the > entire message was blank. If it didn't come in that way for anyone else I > apologise for the re-run but I thought I'd re-send it just in case. =) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kevin & Mara Riley > Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 1999 9:22 AM > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 8 14:08:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA03376 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 14:08:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29817; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 13:24:14 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA26646 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 13:24:09 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from penguin.prod.itd.earthlink.net (penguin.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.134]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA26638 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 13:24:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (dialup-209.244.86.150.Washington2.Level3.net [209.244.86.150]) by penguin.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA18275 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 12:24:02 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <003001bf41bb$dd308ea0$9656f4d1@pavilion> From: "Andrea Gideon" To: "H-Costume" Subject: H-COST: costume business Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 15:36:05 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002D_01BF4191.F12D3B80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Andrea Gideon" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01BF4191.F12D3B80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I've been gone, but now I'm back with a new address. I've been thinking about making my hobby a business and am curious to = hear from others who have. I'm mainly looking to hear from people who = sell to SCA members and reenactors, not those who work in theater. Are you glad you made the jump to professional? Do you still enjoy sewing? Do you sell to friends AND stranger? Do you prefer one over the other? Do you sell strictly on-line or strictly at events? Do you have inventory or do you only sew when ordered? Andrea ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01BF4191.F12D3B80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I've been gone, but now I'm back with a new=20 address.
 
I've been thinking about making my hobby a business = and am=20 curious to hear from others who have.  I'm mainly looking to hear = from=20 people who sell to SCA members and reenactors, not those who work in=20 theater.
Are you glad you made the jump to = professional?
Do you still enjoy sewing?
Do you sell to friends AND stranger?
Do you prefer one over the other?
Do you sell strictly on-line or strictly at=20 events?
Do you have inventory or do you only sew when=20 ordered?
 
Andrea
------=_NextPart_000_002D_01BF4191.F12D3B80-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 8 14:20:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA03437 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 14:20:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA01739; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 13:38:09 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA00713 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 13:38:01 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from intergate.sdccd.cc.ca.us (intergate.sdccd.cc.ca.us [209.129.16.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00692 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 13:37:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from ntxdistrict.sdccd.cc.ca.us (ntxdistrict.sdccd.cc.ca.us [10.1.100.1]) by intergate.sdccd.cc.ca.us (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA17825 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 12:35:40 -0800 (PST) Received: by ntxdistrict.sdccd.cc.ca.us with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 12:39:34 -0800 Message-ID: From: Heidi Fox To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: costume business Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 12:39:25 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Heidi Fox Andrea I have sold costumes to both friends and strangers over the years, mostly for reenacting, and I must say I always put more effort and in and make less money on my friends, while strangers get exactly what they pay for. I can never seem to charge my friends enough money for something I love to do, and often find it hard to charge them for more than the basic fashion fabric, and end up eating the cost of lining, boning, trim, new patterns, etc. that we all know makes up the "bulk" of most period costumes, not to mention the cost of so many hours put in. I too, would love to make my sole living doing this, and may, someday. I wish you all the good fortune in the world in your endeavors! Heidi -----Original Message----- From: Andrea Gideon [mailto:ahgideon@earthlink.net] Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 1999 12:36 PM To: H-Costume Subject: H-COST: costume business I've been gone, but now I'm back with a new address. I've been thinking about making my hobby a business and am curious to hear from others who have. I'm mainly looking to hear from people who sell to SCA members and reenactors, not those who work in theater. Are you glad you made the jump to professional? Do you still enjoy sewing? Do you sell to friends AND stranger? Do you prefer one over the other? Do you sell strictly on-line or strictly at events? Do you have inventory or do you only sew when ordered? Andrea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 8 14:31:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA03471 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 14:31:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA03211; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 13:49:37 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA03894 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 13:49:06 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from fortune.excite.com (fortune-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.203]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA03884 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 13:49:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from pugsly.excite.com ([199.172.148.160]) by ewey.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP id <19991208204615.CNML321.ewey.excite.com@pugsly.excite.com> for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 12:46:15 -0800 Message-ID: <501353.944685975884.JavaMail.imail@pugsly.excite.com> Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 12:46:15 -0800 (PST) From: StitchWitch To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Fwd: Hands-On WOrkshops (fwd) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 144.163.130.106 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: StitchWitch > > > Crafts and skills from Eastern Europe and the Balkans will be featured > > > at the upcoming Celebration 2000 conference, held at Tompkins Cortland > > > Community college, May 12,13,14, 2000. > > > > > Where is this community college? State? City? I'd like to forward this to a > couple of religious email lists that I'm on. I believe it's in New York, or thereabouts. The last paragraph mentions something about that. Kate Kate ---- StitchWitch Unseen in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove. - P.G. Wodehouse, 1930 _______________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 8 14:39:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA03475 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 14:38:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA03874; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 13:54:44 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA05453 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 13:54:38 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA05425 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 13:54:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p22.directcon.net [206.170.184.71]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA07066 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 12:54:18 -0800 Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 12:54:18 -0800 Message-Id: <199912082054.MAA07066@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: costume business Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson There is a section on "Costuming as A Business" on my website at http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm which you may find helpful. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 8 14:52:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA03493 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 14:52:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06656; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 14:10:44 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA09824 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 14:10:24 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta3.snfc21.pbi.net (mta3.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.141]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA09805 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 14:10:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from pacbell.net ([206.170.68.5]) by mta3.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8) with ESMTP id <0FMF00M5HWYTHH@mta3.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 12:59:28 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 12:31:39 +0000 From: Dietmar Subject: H-COST: Red Hair [was Re: Pink] To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <384E4FA9.A2E7D757@pacbell.net> Organization: Completely Disorganized MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-PBI-NC404 (Macintosh; I; PPC) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <199912081648.IAA20239@eclipse.pacifier.com> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dietmar Greetings, I feel guilty for steering this off topic, but please forgive me. Kat wrote: > I do know that red hair has been called that from fairly early in > history. Can you be sure? We do know of many nick names in many languages for people with red hair, but was this the same as the term 'red hair' in the particular language? (I'm sort of playing devil's advocate, because I don't know one way or the other.) > I come from a very red headed family (which is a recessessive > gene but that didn't seem to make a difference in our family.) Hair color (unlike eye color) is not controlled by only one gene. The gene for red hair is not the same as the gene for blonde versus brunette. That's why you can have a broad range of red hair tones from blondes with just a hint of red through Raggedy Ann red and auburn to a dark brown with just a hint of red. > Our family got its name (Russell) from the french for red in early > medieval times. There is a widespread misconception that names have or had a meaning. While many of the words that became did have a meaning, once they are used as a label for a person they quickly lose their meaning. 'Thomas' meant 'twin' in Aramaic, but how many do you know that are given that name because they are one of a set of twins? Of course, it's possible that 'Russell' did come from a nickname for a red head, but there are plenty of other possibilities. (For example, it could be used for the ruddy complexion of someone that regularly worked the field...a medieval 'red-neck', if you will.) Sorry about wandering, but names and languages are a hobby. :-} Dietmar "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 8 15:03:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA03505 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 15:03:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA08844; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 14:22:49 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA13429 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 14:22:31 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bodyguard.apsc.com (bodyguard.apsc.com [137.91.114.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA13414 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 14:22:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailhub.apsc.com (mailhub.apsc.commailhub.apsc.com [137.91.1.30]) by apsc.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA28620 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 14:38:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from nt170.apsc.com (nt170.apsc.com [137.91.1.61]) by mailhub.apsc.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA21684 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 14:22:19 -0700 (MST) Received: by nt170.apsc.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 14:22:13 -0700 Message-ID: <7F402D0574C3D011ACF000A0C92B23D3025E1126@nt13pv.apsc.com> From: "Knauf, Saragrace T(Z02001)" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: H-COST: Recycling clothing 'Fashion in Detail new book:' was Slub, dyed fur, differences in fabric treatments Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 14:22:02 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Knauf, Saragrace T(Z02001)" I guess one could argue that it is not technically upholstery fabric, but subject book has several clothing items that were made from bedspreads. It doesn't seem much of a stretch to me that if they used bedspreads, drapes and upholstery (especially all the silk ones) were not so far off. Maybe Scarlett's drapery dress wasn't so odd after all. -----Original Message----- From: Julie Adams [mailto:savaskan@sd.znet.com] Sent: Friday, December 03, 1999 11:06 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 'Fashion in Detail new book:' was Slub, dyed fur, differences in fabric treatments -Poster: Julie Adams >I have a costume Nazi (I love Margo's snark term-where does it come from?) >who insists that delicately woven, i.e. brocade, or patterned weaving (with >different colors)wasn't possible between 1550-1600 because the 'machines >didn't exist'. Perhaps she suffers from Black and White book photo syndrome :-) I believe there are some descriptions and black and white photos of some very detailed muli-colored brocades in the Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd. There are additional descriptions in text. Also there are some examples in Five Centuries of Italian Textiles, A Selection from the Museo del Tessuto Prato 1300-1800 (No ISBN) organized by Rosalia Bonito Fanelli 1981 One thing to be careful of is popularity and fashion in period, and just because it was possible, doesn't mean a particular pattern or color combination was worn as clothing. By the pictoral evidence I have, I would say that 3 or more colored brocades in Europe became much more popular after 1600, though there seemed to be a brief fad in the late 15th c Italy. Early 16th c German costumes are usually single colored or two colored. When they are two-toned, inevitably one of the colors is black, white/silver, or orange/gold. Their clothing brocade choices seemed to tend toward heraldic color mixtures in taste, yet background furniture textiles are more often multicolored brocades. In the book Textiler Hausrat, Kleidung un Haustextilien in Nurnberg von 1500-1600 by Zander-Seidel, there are chapters devoted to house textiles. These were often woven specifically for various household purposes or decoration and clearly had some popular patterns and weaves. IMHO, we don't wear upholstery fabric now and they didn't then. In general, I admit I tend to steer people away from brocades, mostly because it takes a lot of study, analysis and somewhat of a good eye to pick out a "period" brocade. Some of the ones I've seen people pick just come out badly. When I was costume director of a Landsknecht re-enacting group, I always pleaded with people to get swatches before purchasing that showed the whole pattern. I hate to see people spend time and effort into something that is just not right. The funny thing is that some very interesting patterns can be found in period brocades. Some are very modern geometric looking. Julie Adams _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 8 15:20:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA03513 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 15:20:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA11171; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 14:37:40 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA17570 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 14:37:26 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17535 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 14:37:23 -0700 (MST) From: Hhdunlap@aol.com Received: from Hhdunlap@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.282e76f1 (6104) for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 16:36:33 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.282e76f1.25802961@aol.com> Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 16:36:33 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: Banyan question To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Hhdunlap@aol.com Diderot's Encyclopaedia is going on-line, and the banyan picture and pattern diagram is already up. Gotta get home and see if I can dig up the URL, however, because the index to date is inadequate. You can hunt and peck very happily through the images index, but not if you are in a hurry! Diderot's was fist published in approximately 1766. Banyans got more tailored towards the 3/4 mark in the century, but for mid-century, I think the Diderot's pattern is good. Hope _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 8 15:32:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA03531 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 15:32:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA13231; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 14:47:03 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA20334 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 14:46:45 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ntserver1.mainsaver.com ([206.17.202.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA20322 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 14:46:43 -0700 (MST) Received: by HP-LH3 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 13:37:53 -0800 Message-ID: <5B38B8D7EED8D211997F00A0C9E57FB91DB6A0@HP-LH3> From: MAGGIE SECARA To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: 1670s (was Restoration London) Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 13:37:52 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MAGGIE SECARA Nicole sweetly said: >There you go, I put up more engravings into the 1670s section. > Including some hunting scenes, which means not the latest fashion > is depicted in them. > Oh these are wonderful. You are such a treasure, Nicole! I want to bring to everyone's notice, too, the neat little notes you've been attaching to the artwork in your galleries. It's nice to have someone tell me what I'm looking at, especially when the material is new to me. > > is grand! The current story is set in '75 (and actually in the > Caribbean, > > where it's such a pain sifting good material from bad pyrates), but it's > >It's a safe bet to look at English or French fashion and extrapolate > from there. Plus, what came out to be very true is the following: > lower/working class costume is always 'old fashioned' in the sense > of 'keeping one's best clothing for many years'. Thus if you describe > 1660s clothing for the 1670s, it wouldn't be wrong. Of course it was > impossible for the people to be dressed according to the latest > fashion. At tbe beginning of the book, the heroine has just returned to Jamaica from Paris, so she'll have some of whatever was the latest thing, but she spends very little time in that sort of company :) There are only two occasions for high fashion: once at the beginning and once at the end. In between, these hunstmen and milkmaids and so on give me just the cues I was looking for. >Have you actually read Pepys? Some of it, and sometimes he's wonderfully detailed and sometimes maddeningly the opposite. The next book in the series will be back in England (though not mainly in the metropolis) so I guess I'll have to give him another go. Great work! > MaggiRos > > http://ren.dm.net > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 8 15:35:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA03535 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 15:35:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA14331; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 14:53:27 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA22115 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 14:52:42 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.7]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA22082 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 14:52:38 -0700 (MST) From: Hhdunlap@aol.com Received: from Hhdunlap@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.6132b77 (15550) for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 16:51:56 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.6132b77.25802cfb@aol.com> Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 16:51:55 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: Banyan question To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Hhdunlap@aol.com Sorry, the Diderot's seems to be restricted now to subscribers. Alternatively, see this banyan pattern for sale: http://www.longago.com/colonial.html It is appropraite for mid-century. Hope _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 8 15:40:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA03544 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 15:40:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA15580; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 14:59:19 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA24144 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 14:59:14 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA24130 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 14:59:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.56] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11vp78-0007LN-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 13:59:11 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19991206124052.00a257b0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 12:45:09 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: H-COST: lap dogs (was Kidstuff [was (Authenticity Enforcers)]) In-Reply-To: <00c301bf40e4$dc8220e0$c3edf1c3@henk> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows and some lapdogs were very much indulged, but this >wasn't the norm. I read that lapdogs were very popular, among the non-working classes, because their body temperature was warmer than that of humans. I see a lot of small dogs in Late Medieval portraits, and this seems to bear me out here. BTW, look for a web page about Bishon Frise dogs (spelling?) for many many Medieval portraits with these dogs in them. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 8 15:40:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA03548 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 15:40:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA15570; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 14:59:18 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA24140 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 14:59:13 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA24124 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 14:59:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.56] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11vp77-0007LN-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 13:59:09 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19991206123101.00a25e00@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 13:15:01 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Pink In-Reply-To: <384D1854.FAF65E31@home.com> References: <4.1.19991206115603.00a26c90@pop.slip.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Several replies in one post: >> How about 'admired them enough to try to recreate them'? I will take >> the word of a dyer on the possibility/probability of those colours, >> but I won't believe neon colours are possible with natural dyestuff >> till then. > >I haven't done natural dying since Girl Scout camp but I seem to recall >making something that came out pretty neon... and the ancient Bruce >tartan *screams* with neon orange & green. Then there's 'loud McLeod'. * * * >(All my fathers pinks are white!) My grandmother's were all pinkish. >When a batch of natural dyestuffs failed to arrive for a local class I was >teaching--we played with the herbs in my garden and the spices in my rack. >When the contents of my spice rack produced a most wonderous shade of neon >fuschia pink , I too, was convinced that earlier folks must have enjoyed it, >too!! Turmeric gives a bright yellow, but isn't lightfast. * * * >I have several "color wheel" samples of wool dyed in pre-1600 dyes & >mordants. There is a lovely pink dyed with cochineal mordanted with tin ( or >dyed in a tin pot). Medieval illuminations (like the Tres Riches Heures) show >pink garments next to red ones, so pink was NOT a red that faded, like some >have argued. Not to disagree with you, but I think both kinds of pink must have been in use at the same time. My guess is that the presence of real pink-dyed garments made the faded-red kind more desirable to the lower classes, who had to wear the faded stuff anyway till it wore out. BTW, one can actually get away with some pinks at Ren. Faire (N.CA) if they look like faded reds - faded-red-now-pinkish must be period if non-faded-red is. * * * >I think what this whole discussion boils down to is that: >1. even when they could get the color, it wasn't necessarily used. >Our modern aethetics doesn't match what they would have liked and >what they liked changed from year to year (sometimes regulated by the >guilds so that even if you liked it, it wouldn't have been >available.) Also even if *you* liked it, you wouldn't be caught dead >wearing it because we can get away with individuality now in a way >that didn't happen in most other period in Europe. My guess is that embroidererd could get away with a greater range of colours they liked than clothes wearers. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 8 15:41:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA03552 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 15:41:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA15441; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 14:58:42 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA23859 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 14:58:30 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA23830 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 14:58:27 -0700 (MST) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.509a7b83 (4599) for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 16:57:53 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.509a7b83.25802e61@aol.com> Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 16:57:53 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: Banyan question To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 44 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com In a message dated 12/8/1999 13:54:15 Pacific Standard Time, Hhdunlap@aol.com writes: << Sorry, the Diderot's seems to be restricted now to subscribers. Alternatively, see this banyan pattern for sale: http://www.longago.com/colonial.html It is appropraite for mid-century. Hope >> Hope, would you mind posting subscription information for the Diderot? Or is it something that is associated solely with you ISP provider? thanks, angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes Theatrical Costume Design "If we shadows have offended, think but this, and all is mended, That you have but slumbered here, while these visions did appear." A Midsummer Night's Dream; V, ii - W. Shakespeare QUICK-LINK: http://come.to/costumes FULL URL: http://sj.znet.com/~thespian/angil/index.html _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 8 15:55:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA03605 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 15:55:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA18693; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 15:12:57 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA27926 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 15:11:35 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ntserver1.mainsaver.com ([206.17.202.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA27909 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 15:11:32 -0700 (MST) Received: by HP-LH3 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 14:02:46 -0800 Message-ID: <5B38B8D7EED8D211997F00A0C9E57FB91DB6A4@HP-LH3> From: MAGGIE SECARA To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: lap dogs (was Kidstuff [was (Authenticity Enforcers)] ) Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 14:02:45 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MAGGIE SECARA The animals in portraits are often emblematic rather than literal. Ok, the dogs could also be pets, I suppose, but they're in the picture to represent something, I think it's fidelity. Charles II, on the other hand, just loved his dogs and they really were pets, not the working dogs of farms and family homes. MaggiRos > ---------- > From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows[SMTP:kayta@slip.net] > Reply To: h-costume@indra.com > Sent: Monday, December 06, 1999 12:45 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: H-COST: lap dogs (was Kidstuff [was (Authenticity > Enforcers)]) > > > -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > > and some lapdogs were very much indulged, but this > >wasn't the norm. > > I read that lapdogs were very popular, among the non-working classes, > because their body temperature was warmer than that of humans. I see a > lot > of small dogs in Late Medieval portraits, and this seems to bear me out > here. BTW, look for a web page about Bishon Frise dogs (spelling?) for > many many Medieval portraits with these dogs in them. > > > Kayta > ////.\\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ((( > | -- )))) > * ) ((((( > /----\ /---\ > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 8 16:21:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA03623 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 16:21:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24788; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 15:40:33 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA06687 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 15:40:14 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from viper.columbus.rr.com (viper.columbus.rr.com [204.210.252.254]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA06672 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 15:40:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from dsc.columbus.rr.com (dhcp26129131.columbus.rr.com [24.26.129.131]) by viper.columbus.rr.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA13781 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 17:40:00 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00de01bf41cd$a33c4380$83811a18@dsc.columbus.rr.com> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Fashion in the Age of the Black Prince Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 17:43:24 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Greetings! >Barnes and Noble lists as available in 1-2 weeks. $28.00 Well, I'm guessing that was based in it being easily available from Boydell & Brewer. I ordered a copy from them over two weeks ago and it hasn't shown up yet. Susan _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 8 16:43:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA03679 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 16:43:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA28674; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 16:02:21 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA17521 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 16:01:53 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta3-svc.virgin.net (mta3-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.144]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA17469 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 16:01:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from LOCALNAME ([194.168.73.149]) by mta3-svc.virgin.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP id <19991208225536.NZLV8910.mta3-svc.virgin.net@LOCALNAME> for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 22:55:36 +0000 Message-ID: <384F583C.3A02@virgin.net> Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 23:20:28 -0800 From: Dawn Organization: ages of elegance (http://www.agesofelegance.co.uk) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-VN712-000 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Banyan question References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dawn Kevin & Mara Riley wrote: > > -Poster: Kevin & Mara Riley > > Can anyone point me to pictures on the web, or instructions, for a man's > dressing gown from the mid-1700s? > > Thanks, > Mara > > There is an excellent account of making a banyan in the Uk's costume society journal can't remember offhand which, but the pattern in cut of men's clothes is the same one. I made a copy of it and it works very well Dawn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 8 16:50:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA03735 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 16:50:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA29391; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 16:09:14 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA21108 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 16:09:02 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA21099 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 16:09:00 -0700 (MST) From: Appin1@aol.com Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.dce00304 (4333) for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 18:08:25 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.dce00304.25803ee8@aol.com> Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 18:08:24 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: Banyan question To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 39 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Appin1@aol.com I'd be careful with Rockinghorse Farm patterns. The patterns seem to be sort of period, but the directions are incomplete and obscure. Good luck if you use one. Kathleen Norvell "How many costumes do you think I can pack?" -- "Start the Revolution without Me" _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 8 16:57:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA03742 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 16:57:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA00485; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 16:16:21 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA25573 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 16:15:45 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25553 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 16:15:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from lindo (p36.a3.du.radix.net [207.192.130.36]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA11558 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 18:15:41 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199912082315.SAA11558@mail1.radix.net> X-Sender: lindo@saltmine.radix.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 18:12:39 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: lindo@Radix.Net Subject: Re: H-COST: Very OT Historical Ships (was- Ships/IWTV) In-Reply-To: <008501bf41b4$1b5c0f40$80f4fea9@ouppc> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id QAA25561 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: lindo@radix.net Thanks for the reference, Kerrie!  Are you familiar with the Godzilla -- er, I mean, the Gazella, whose home port is also Philly? -- Mara At 02:40 PM 12/8/99 -0500, you wrote: > > This is too true!  Anyone in or near Philadelphia, who's interested in such > things, might like to know that the beautiful S.S. United States is sitting > forlornly at pier 82. > Even though she's been stripped of all her fittings, her paint is faded and > she's all but covered in rust, she is still one of the most breathtaking > sights I've ever seen.  We make it a point to drive by the pier and "visit" > whenever we go downtown.  =) > There is an effort in motion to try to have this ship restored to her old > glory, please visit Mike Alexander's website at: > http://www.ss-united-states.com/ .  He's got > some wonderful pictures, both > before and after, and an incredible amount of information. > > Cheers! > Kerrie Kevin + Mara Riley Home Page http://www.radix.net/~lindo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 8 17:19:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA03763 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 17:19:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02702; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 16:37:40 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA07523 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 16:37:00 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.7]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA07516 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 16:36:58 -0700 (MST) From: Appin1@aol.com Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.ee4dab22 (4333) for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 18:36:24 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.ee4dab22.25804576@aol.com> Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 18:36:22 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: Authenticity "Enforcers" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 39 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Appin1@aol.com In a message dated 12/5/99 10:55:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, kdyer@home.com writes: << My children always wear a t-tunic or dress, tights and either boots, the most period looking maryjanes I can find, sandals or medieval moccasins. The latter are quite economical because the children can wear them for several years.. >> If you make them somewhat bigger than the child's feet, they can wear them OVER the sneakers. A friend of mine did this for her son, who would not part with his modern sneakers even fro reenacting. So she made him a pair of pampooties (Highland hide shoes) big enough to go over his shoes. The kid looked like a cartoon character with big feet, but everyone was happy. Kathleen Norvell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 8 18:29:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA03797 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 18:29:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA12439; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 17:48:44 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA21641 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 17:47:49 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sd.znet.com (sd.znet.com [207.167.64.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA21601 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 17:47:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.167.66.95] (sdts11-95.znet.net [207.167.66.95]) by sd.znet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/jjb-sd) with ESMTP id QAA19322 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 16:47:44 -0800 (PST) X-Envelope-From: savaskan@sd.znet.com X-Envelope-To: Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <005301bf4164$b57768e0$6a21893e@default> References: <199912071738.KAA04904@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 15:48:48 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Julie Adams Subject: Re: H-COST: Re; Pink Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Julie Adams >-Poster: "Joy Shillaker" > >Just a thought, but is the 'problem with pink' more to do with terminology >rather than wether the colour existed? Not in the context we were talking about, which was Modern costume directors not allowing Pink for theatrical reasons, and having it evolve into "pink is not period". Julie Adams _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 8 18:29:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA03801 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 18:29:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA12438; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 17:48:44 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA21849 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 17:47:56 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sd.znet.com (sd.znet.com [207.167.64.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA21827 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 17:47:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.167.66.95] (sdts11-95.znet.net [207.167.66.95]) by sd.znet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/jjb-sd) with ESMTP id QAA19373 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 16:47:53 -0800 (PST) X-Envelope-From: savaskan@sd.znet.com X-Envelope-To: Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <5B38B8D7EED8D211997F00A0C9E57FB91DB6A4@HP-LH3> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 16:42:55 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Julie Adams Subject: RE: H-COST: lap dogs (was Kidstuff [was (Authenticity Enforcers)] ) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Julie Adams >The animals in portraits are often emblematic rather than literal. Ok, the >dogs could also be pets, I suppose, but they're in the picture to represent >something, I think it's fidelity. > >Charles II, on the other hand, just loved his dogs and they really were >pets, not the working dogs of farms and family homes. There are a lot of dogs in German woodcuts. And some of them seem to be pets of poor people, like the campfollowers carrying their little dog and the other dogs just hanging out with the baggage train. They are shown in peasant holiday scenes too. There are quite a few little Lion dogs, maybe precursors of poodles, tiny dogs with a lion haircut that some people are trying to recreate now. There are quite a few dogs shown in feast scenes too. Now these were probably hunting dogs for the most part, but that doen't mean they wouldn't be pets too. Is this related to costuming? I dunno, I always considered my Anatolian Shepherd dogs to be great accessories... especially for Turkish clothes...(but they look more like pre-16th c mastiffs than the modern "Englis" Mastiffs). Julie Adams _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 8 18:44:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA03817 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 18:44:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA14351; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 18:03:05 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA00237 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 18:02:52 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from eclipse.pacifier.com (eclipse.pacifier.com [199.2.117.78]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA00219 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 18:02:50 -0700 (MST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: from grendal2 (ip216.van18.pacifier.com [216.65.137.216]) by eclipse.pacifier.com (8.9.3/8.9.3pop) with SMTP id RAA11703 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 17:02:38 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199912090102.RAA11703@eclipse.pacifier.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 17:05:32 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: Red Hair [was Re: Pink] Priority: normal In-reply-to: <384E4FA9.A2E7D757@pacbell.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > Of course, it's possible that 'Russell' did come from a nickname for a red > head, but there are plenty of other possibilities. (For example, it could be > used for the ruddy complexion of someone that regularly worked the field...a > medieval 'red-neck', if you will.) There are, in our family records (which go back quite a ways, definitely to the medieval times) quotes about the hair of the members of the family and its various names for the red hair. While I can't say anything about others being called "red", I do know that in my family, it meant, specifically, red haired. (In fact, the family members all seem to have red hair or red undertones. You should see our family reunions!) Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 8 20:22:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA03978 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 20:22:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA26932; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 19:41:08 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA27131 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 19:40:19 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.62]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA27115 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 19:40:16 -0700 (MST) From: trekona@erols.com Received: from 207-172-134-2.s2.tnt7.col.md.dialup.rcn.com ([207.172.134.2] helo=erols.com) by smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #3) id 11vtUN-000773-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 21:39:27 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Red Hair [was Re: Pink] Date: Thu, 09 Dec 99 02:45:52 GMT Message-ID: References: <199912081648.IAA20239@eclipse.pacifier.com> <384E4FA9.A2E7D757@pacbell.net> X-Mailer: Quarterdeck Message Center [2.00] Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: trekona@erols.com Hi, > Can you be sure? We do know of many nick names in many languages for people > with red hair, but was this the same as the term 'red hair' in the particular > language? (I'm sort of playing devil's advocate, because I don't know one way > or the other.) I'm not saying that there's necessarily a connection... but among cat circles, the proper term for an orange colored cat is 'Red' (just as a gray color is properly termed blue). Interesting coincidence, though. > > Our family got its name (Russell) from the french for red in early > > medieval times. > There is a widespread misconception that names have or had a meaning. While > many of the words that became did have a meaning, once they are used as a > label for a person they quickly lose their meaning. 'Thomas' meant 'twin' in > Aramaic, but how many do you know that are given that name because they are > one of a set of twins? uh... actually that's why my husband's name is Thomas, his mother thought it was cute. His brother was named for Stephen Foster, though. However this is an unusual situation. Most 'Thomas's are not necessarily a twin! -Judy Mitchell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 8 20:58:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA03996 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 20:58:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA01349; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 20:17:51 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA12222 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 20:17:07 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA12212 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 20:17:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.230.149] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11vu4l-0003VI-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 19:17:03 -0800 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 19:12:57 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: bees In-Reply-To: <199912080508.GAA28739@raq.dnsworld.de> References: <199912070620.HAA16755@raq.dnsworld.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Vielen schoenen Dank! I was a Dts. major many, many years ago...I could use the practice though...Carol _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 9 01:34:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA04257 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 01:34:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA21717; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 00:54:02 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA03712 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 18:14:45 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from crunchy.sound.net (crunchy.sound.net [205.242.194.25]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA03673 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 18:14:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 17645 invoked from network); 9 Dec 1999 01:13:01 -0000 Received: from tnt0-080250.kc.sound.net (HELO sound.net) (209.153.80.250) by crunchy.sound.net with SMTP; 9 Dec 1999 01:13:01 -0000 Message-ID: <384F02DD.A8CDCF18@sound.net> Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 19:16:13 -0600 From: Linda Thompson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST:costume business References: <199912082146.OAA20394@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Linda Thompson Andrea, I have been doing costuming as a business for 6 years now. For the previous 20 years I had been doing it for free for friends/family around Halloween or special events. The first 3 years I reported a loss, due to: poor pricing, doing favors and purchasing equipment, and remodeling my basement into a studio. The past 3 I have reported income. Each year is a little better as I become a better business person. The most important lesson to learn is while you might be a fantastic seamstress/tailor, you will only succeed financially if you learn to be a fantastic business manager also. This means you need to seriously look at how long it takes to do something and price it according to how much you want to make an hour (above and beyond the costs for supplies). And stick to it. NO EXCEPTIONS. (I don't charge my family for stuff obviously, but they do not get items sewn as quickly either) Before I learned that lesson, while I enjoyed the actual sewing of the items, I certainly felt under-appreciated and under-paid. I realized that if I did not value my work enough to charge a decent price for it, how could I expect others to? I would definetly read Margo's information, it is well written and informative. Then I suggest you go to the library and check out books on how to succeed at small business. While they may not all apply to your particular circumstance there will be some hard and fast rules that apply to every business. And I never do sewing favors for friends. Don't get me wrong, I love and value my friends, but once they become a client (paying or not) the relationship changes somehow. I have swapped favors with friends, some kind of fair trade... I made a set of undergarments (corset/bloomers/chemise), and got my bathroom scrubbed from ceiling to floor. We both were thrilled at the outcome. Now for your questions: I really still enjoy sewing. I sell to everyone who is willing to pay a fair price. I primarily do costuming for Renaissance Events, and a few special needs clients. I sew as I'm commissioned. And am getting geared up for doing somethings online in the future. Linda I love it when our renfair ends, I get a life again for a few months and get caught up on the list!!!! YAY _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 9 03:04:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA09597 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 03:04:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA27050; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 02:23:36 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA01155 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 02:23:15 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from whirlwind.netspace.net.au (whirlwind.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.70]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA01133 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 02:23:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from netspace.net.au.netspace.net.au (dialup-t1-290.Melbourne.netspace.net.au [210.15.251.36]) by whirlwind.netspace.net.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/NS) with ESMTP id UAA27645 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 20:23:02 +1100 (EST) Message-Id: <199912090923.UAA27645@whirlwind.netspace.net.au> From: "Christopher Ballis" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Red Hair [was Re: Pink] Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 20:08:17 +1100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Christopher Ballis" We do know of many nick names in many languages for people > > with red hair, but was this the same as the term 'red hair' in the particular > > language? (I'm sort of playing devil's advocate, because I don't know one way > > or the other.) ...in Australia, a red haired person is often called Blue or Bluey By the way, anyone noticed the way this posting title is changing...red hair was pink? Hmm. -C. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 9 07:17:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA09799 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 07:17:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA06487; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 06:37:04 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA00150 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 06:36:37 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA00133 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 06:36:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA21410 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 08:36:29 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 08:36:27 -0500 (EST) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Banyan question In-Reply-To: <0.6132b77.25802cfb@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kevin & Mara Riley Thanks! That helps. Has anyone used Rocking Horse Farm patterns? What's that web site that has pattern reviews? Cheers, Mara On Wed, 8 Dec 1999 Hhdunlap@aol.com wrote: > > -Poster: Hhdunlap@aol.com > > Sorry, the Diderot's seems to be restricted now to subscribers. Alternatively, see this banyan pattern for sale: http://www.longago.com/colonial.html It is appropraite for mid-century. > > Hope > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 9 07:27:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA09805 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 07:27:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA07070; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 06:47:07 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA04676 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 06:46:57 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA04659 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 06:46:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA22821 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 08:46:53 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 08:46:51 -0500 (EST) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Tartan (was Pink) In-Reply-To: <4.1.19991206123101.00a25e00@pop.slip.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kevin & Mara Riley On Mon, 6 Dec 1999, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote:> > >I haven't done natural dying since Girl Scout camp but I seem to recall > >making something that came out pretty neon... and the ancient Bruce > >tartan *screams* with neon orange & green. > > Then there's 'loud McLeod'. Um... are either of these based on actual tartans from before they were outlawed (following the 1745 uprising), or were these some of the many that were invented during the Victorian era, when tartans became all the rage? 'Clan Tartans' are a common misconception -- if you look at the portraits of Higland nobility from the 17th/18th centuries, you'll often see them wearing multiple patterns of tartan at once, and in wildly conflicting patterns (the predecessor of tacky golf clothing, I guess!). There is one mention of a particular lord having his attendants dressed in tartan woven from particular colors, but a sett (pattern) is not mentioned, so this isn't much different from an English lord clothing his staff in a particular set of colors for their livery. There are no mentions of 'Clan Tartans' before the Victorian era. And there are very few tartans that are actually based on pre-1745 patterns. Martin Martin, I believe, remarks that one could make a good guess at what area someone came from based on the pattern of their plaid; but that's different from having clan tartans. All that means is that weavers in a particular area tended to turn out patterns of a certain type, and weavers in the next glen wove patterns that were a little different. Cheers, Mara _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 9 07:29:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA09810 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 07:29:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA07182; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 06:49:00 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA05481 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 06:48:55 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA05463 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 06:48:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA23220 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 08:48:49 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 08:48:48 -0500 (EST) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Banyan question In-Reply-To: <384F583C.3A02@virgin.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kevin & Mara Riley Which one from 'Cut of Men's Clothes'? There's one that is more tailored, and then the other seems less structured... can I assume that the less-structured one is earlier, and the more-tailored one is later? Mara On Wed, 8 Dec 1999, Dawn wrote: > > -Poster: Dawn > > Kevin & Mara Riley wrote: > > > > -Poster: Kevin & Mara Riley > > > > Can anyone point me to pictures on the web, or instructions, for a man's > > dressing gown from the mid-1700s? > > > > Thanks, > > Mara > > > > > There is an excellent account of making a banyan in the Uk's costume > society journal can't remember offhand which, but the pattern in cut of > men's clothes is the same one. > I made a copy of it and it works very well > > Dawn > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 9 07:31:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA09816 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 07:31:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA07311; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 06:49:55 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA05835 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 06:49:50 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA05820 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 06:49:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA23335 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 08:49:46 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 08:49:45 -0500 (EST) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Banyan question In-Reply-To: <0.dce00304.25803ee8@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kevin & Mara Riley Thanks for the warning. Maybe I'd be better off drafting one from Norah Waugh's book :D Hey, that's what muslins are for, right? Mara On Wed, 8 Dec 1999 Appin1@aol.com wrote: > > -Poster: Appin1@aol.com > > I'd be careful with Rockinghorse Farm patterns. The patterns seem to be sort > of period, but the directions are incomplete and obscure. Good luck if you > use one. > > Kathleen Norvell > "How many costumes do you think I can pack?" > -- "Start the Revolution without Me" > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 9 07:41:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA09833 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 07:41:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA08017; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 07:00:38 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA11584 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 07:00:16 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA11552 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 07:00:13 -0700 (MST) From: Gaelscot@aol.com Received: from Gaelscot@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.6a512c98 (3874) for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 08:59:39 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.6a512c98.25810fcb@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 08:59:39 EST Subject: H-COST: Re: phoenix textiles To: h-costume-digest@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com WOW!!!! Someone in the last couple of days posted about velvet available at Phoenix Textiles. The url she (?) posted didn't work for me, but I did find it and I am astonished! I can't believe these prices!!! I am so mad that I read that post today -- the day after their no shipping charges sale!!! Anyway, that poster was happy with her order. If anyone else has done business with them, would you please post me privately and let me know? Gail Finke gaelscot@aol.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 9 07:50:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA09844 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 07:50:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA08485; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 07:07:57 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA15323 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 07:07:34 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA15310 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 07:07:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA26391 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 09:07:31 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 09:07:30 -0500 (EST) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: Costume List Subject: H-COST: Highland Dress (again) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kevin & Mara Riley Hey, folks, I recently went to the following web site, which has an unfortunate attempt at what the seamstress calls a Highland Gown: http://www.chickpages.com/fashionpassion/ralphie9/index.html (The profile is all wrong, for one thing, and I could go on, and on, and on...) Anyhow, I sent a note to the person inquiring as to her source for a few of the drawings she used (or thinks she used) for references. She cites the following: > Those pics were from The Historical Encyclopedia of Costumes by Albert > Racinet. It is an excellent resource book for all types of period and > ethnic dress. Just to satisfy my own curiosity, can anyone tell me when this book was published? The drawings look Victorian to me; they might have been lifted from another source that I'm drawing a blank on at this time. Cheers, Mara _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 9 07:50:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA09848 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 07:50:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA08615; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 07:09:09 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA15953 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 07:08:53 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA15938 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 07:08:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA26582 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 09:08:50 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 09:08:48 -0500 (EST) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: phoenix textiles In-Reply-To: <0.6a512c98.25810fcb@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kevin & Mara Riley Well, what IS the URL, then? (grin) On Thu, 9 Dec 1999 Gaelscot@aol.com wrote: > > -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com > > > > WOW!!!! Someone in the last couple of days posted about velvet available at > Phoenix Textiles. The url she (?) posted didn't work for me, but I did find > it and I am astonished! I can't believe these prices!!! I am so mad that I > read that post today -- the day after their no shipping charges sale!!! > Anyway, that poster was happy with her order. If anyone else has done > business with them, would you please post me privately and let me know? > > Gail Finke > gaelscot@aol.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 9 07:51:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA09852 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 07:51:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA08681; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 07:09:43 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA16155 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 07:09:20 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA16136 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 07:09:17 -0700 (MST) From: Gaelscot@aol.com Received: from Gaelscot@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.e65e91df (3874) for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 09:08:40 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.e65e91df.258111e8@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 09:08:40 EST Subject: H-COST: Re: the color pink To: h-costume-digest@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com I admit, I am completely clueless when it comes to color. I'm sorry that there doesn't seem to be an accessible, easily understood resource about what colors were popular (and available!) when. It's too bad that theatrical decisions get taken as authoritative statements about what was or wasn't done when -- but it seems to me that the argument "well, they could have done it, so someone must have" is equally specious. Lots of colors are possible today, but not used, and we seem to have much more of an "anything goes" attitude about color in clothes. So someone COULD have produced a particular color with plants in the area. But how often would that person have been dying fabric, and what other colors might he/she have chosen to make? How much cloth did a person dye and how much did he buy already dyed or made up? How many colors did a merchant dye a year -- lots, or just a few? Would a "typical" person (if there is any such thing) have spent a lot of money to get a few expensive and perhaps hard-to-dye things, or have gotten more, less expensive things? We see both kinds of behavior today. My point is that color is a complicated issue, and blanket statements just won't work. If I were worried about historical accuracy, I would stick to extant garments and try to copy them. I do earlier periods where there are no extant garments, and even the artwork (illuminations) can't be considered accurate depictions of colors. So I don't worry about it, except to steer clear of things available only in modern dyes. That's my solution and it won't work for everyone. Someday it may not work for me, either! Gail Finke _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 9 07:55:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA09858 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 07:55:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA08968; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 07:13:23 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA17852 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 07:13:05 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com (imo-d06.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA17813 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 07:13:01 -0700 (MST) From: DDunker@aol.com Received: from DDunker@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.99a0fd3a (3973) for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 09:12:41 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.99a0fd3a.258112d9@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 09:12:41 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: phoenix textiles To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 39 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: DDunker@aol.com www.phoenixtextiles.com or to reach BOTH of their sites www.fabric.com Katrin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 9 08:02:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA09880 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 08:02:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA09453; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 07:21:42 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA21546 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 07:21:25 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from fargpop1.farg.uswest.net (fargpop1.farg.uswest.net [207.109.224.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA21531 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 07:21:24 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 21864 invoked by alias); 9 Dec 1999 14:21:22 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-h-costume@indra.com@fixme Received: (qmail 21854 invoked by uid 0); 9 Dec 1999 14:21:22 -0000 Received: from bdsl118.farg.uswest.net (HELO john) (209.181.216.118) by fargpop1.farg.uswest.net with SMTP; 9 Dec 1999 14:21:22 -0000 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19991209081920.0096b470@pop.farg.uswest.net> X-Sender: kimbaird@pop.farg.uswest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 08:21:22 -0600 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kim Baird Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: phoenix textiles In-Reply-To: <0.6a512c98.25810fcb@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kim Baird I've bought quite a few things from Phoenix, and am a very satisfied customer. Can't beat those prices. But you have to check frequently to see what they have, as their stock varies all the time. If you sign up for it, they will e-mail you when new fabric arrives. Kim At 08:59 AM 12/09/1999 -0500, you wrote: >-Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com > > > >WOW!!!! Someone in the last couple of days posted about velvet available at >Phoenix Textiles. The url she (?) posted didn't work for me, but I did find >it and I am astonished! I can't believe these prices!!! I am so mad that I >read that post today -- the day after their no shipping charges sale!!! >Anyway, that poster was happy with her order. If anyone else has done >business with them, would you please post me privately and let me know? > >Gail Finke >gaelscot@aol.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 9 08:19:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA09903 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 08:19:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA11377; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 07:37:28 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA27746 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 07:37:16 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA27733 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 07:37:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from great-hal (ip201.toronto25.dialup.canada.psi.net [154.11.82.201]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA11792 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 09:37:10 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 09:37:10 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19991209094129.19bf4b38@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: msmclean@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: "Marsha S. McLean" Subject: H-COST: Re: h-costume authenticity enforcers Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Marsha S. McLean" My so (3 1/2) bought himself (his choice with his mad money) a pair of Godzilla slippers - furry with claws - that are fairly good interpretations of the Henrician broad toe shoe with slashes. The claws come accross as puffs. mm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 9 08:53:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA09951 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 08:53:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA14557; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 08:11:18 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA12832 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 08:10:53 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.7]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA12821 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 08:10:51 -0700 (MST) From: Hhdunlap@aol.com Received: from Hhdunlap@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.200c3390 (15553) for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 10:10:11 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.200c3390.25812053@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 10:10:11 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: Banyan question To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Hhdunlap@aol.com http://www.lib.uchicago.edu/efts/ARTFL/projects/encyc/ is the URL for the on-line Diderot project. Hope _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 9 09:03:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA09962 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 09:03:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA15572; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 08:22:15 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA18599 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 08:21:02 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA18570 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 08:20:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991209152051.EBKA17996.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 07:20:51 -0800 Message-ID: <384FC8E2.75F25A9D@home.com> Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 09:21:06 -0600 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: phoenix textiles References: <0.99a0fd3a.258112d9@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kat & Kent I tried http://www.fabric.com and got a DNS error... but the http://www.phoenixtextiles.com worked for me yesterday... odd. Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 9 10:26:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA10019 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 10:26:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA26619; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 09:41:28 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA02042 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 09:40:35 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA02032 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 09:40:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA04880 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 08:40:57 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <384FDBCD.9B0FFB17@serv.net> Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 08:41:49 -0800 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Highland Dress (again) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > I recently went to the following web site, which has an unfortunate > attempt at what the seamstress calls a Highland Gown: Just a thought. How do you know that she isn't on this list? Personally, I would be very careful before posting a comment like this to a public forum. We can't educate if someone's feelings are terribly hurt. FWIW, Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of AnTir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 9 10:43:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA10046 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 10:43:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29505; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 10:01:55 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA11717 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 10:01:41 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.68]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA11689 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 10:01:37 -0700 (MST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.2b4d28af (4255) for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 12:01:02 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.2b4d28af.25813a4e@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 12:01:02 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: Banyan question To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 44 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 12/08/1999 4:56:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, Hhdunlap@aol.com writes: << http://www.longago.com/colonial.html >> Well, all I can say is I hope it makes up better than it looks in the illustration. [Why doesn't he have a head???] _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 9 12:19:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA10208 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 12:19:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA14991; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 11:37:07 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA00536 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 11:36:34 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ntserver1.mainsaver.com ([206.17.202.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA00510 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 11:36:31 -0700 (MST) Received: by HP-LH3 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 10:27:43 -0800 Message-ID: <5B38B8D7EED8D211997F00A0C9E57FB91DB6AE@HP-LH3> From: MAGGIE SECARA To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Red Hair [was Re: Pink] Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 10:27:43 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MAGGIE SECARA I've noticed that in Britain red-haired people are sometimes called Ginger. Red for red hair doesn't seem to be entirely inevitable. MaggiRos > ---------- > From: Christopher Ballis[SMTP:stilskin@netspace.net.au] > Reply To: h-costume@indra.com > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 1999 1:08 AM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: Red Hair [was Re: Pink] > > > -Poster: "Christopher Ballis" > > We do know of many nick names in many languages for people > > > with red hair, but was this the same as the term 'red hair' in the > particular > > > language? (I'm sort of playing devil's advocate, because I don't know > one way > > > or the other.) > > ...in Australia, a red haired person is often called Blue or Bluey > > By the way, anyone noticed the way this posting title is changing...red > hair was pink? Hmm. > > -C. > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 9 12:27:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA10223 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 12:27:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA16594; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 11:45:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA05982 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 11:45:18 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA05948 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 11:45:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from camelot (ip251.houston19.tx.pub-ip.psi.net [38.31.107.251]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA19402 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 10:45:12 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <00e101bf4275$42a3c860$dbc90b26@camelot> From: "Diane M. Mathews" To: References: <384FDBCD.9B0FFB17@serv.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: Highland Dress (again) Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 12:37:38 -0600 Organization: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Diane M. Mathews" This is not my particular time period nor geographic area ( I attempt to do late tudor ) but, I did not find fault with what this costumer was trying to do. Up front, she states that the customer wanted something different than what " correct " Highland attire would have been and states why. This costumer also states that this is not " period correct " and it is a " costume " for fun rather than a reinactment gown. As long as both the parties understand what the changes are and why then I do not see a problem with modifications and liberties. I myself have a couple of " costumes " that I would not wear to an SCA event but have a lot of FUN with at parties and I do not have to worry about my detailed and expensive court gowns being spoiled. Like I said---I do NOT know ANYTHING about Highland attire but felt this person openly admitted that this was not what she would have called " Period Correct ". Guinevere ----- Original Message ----- From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris To: Sent: Thursday, December 09, 1999 10:41 AM Subject: Re: H-COST: Highland Dress (again) > > -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > > > I recently went to the following web site, which has an unfortunate > > attempt at what the seamstress calls a Highland Gown: > > Just a thought. How do you know that she isn't on this list? Personally, I > would be very careful before posting a comment like this to a public forum. > We can't educate if someone's feelings are terribly hurt. > > FWIW, > Cynthia > -- > Cynthia Long > Merouda the True of Beaumaris > Barony of Madrone > Kingdom of AnTir > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 9 13:31:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10330 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 13:31:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA26861; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 12:50:03 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA08952 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 10:57:01 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08916 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 10:56:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p1.directcon.net [206.170.184.50]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA12073 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 09:56:50 -0800 Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 09:56:50 -0800 Message-Id: <199912091756.JAA12073@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Highland Dress (again) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson I agree that the posting was unfortunately worded. The gown in question is pretty and appears to be very well made. It also fulfills its basic purpose, as the maker states on the website: >I feel like the dress was a reasonable hybrid of the simplicity of shape that the Highland gowns had, while incorporating Nancy's wishes for something more frivolous and feminine, without going over the top > > Her client wanted a pretty and dramatic 18th century inspired gown to wear to a Highland Games. she didn't ask for a meticulous historical reproduction, and there was no reason to make one. It would have been nice if the page had been titled " Highland Inpired Gown", but that's quibbling. The content of the page makes it quite clear what the goal was. Now, as to the actual question in the original post, yes, Racinet was Victorian (1840's I believe) and, like most costume infomation of the time, is not a terribly good source. It is, however, widely available in libraries and bookstores, which accounts for its use by so many people. Margo Anderson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 9 13:31:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10331 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 13:31:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA26357; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 12:48:02 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA28218 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 12:47:16 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from chmls05.mediaone.net (ne.mediaone.net [24.128.1.70]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28202 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 12:47:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from mediaone.net (h00105af53be2.ne.mediaone.net [24.218.162.250]) by chmls05.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA24910; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 14:47:05 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3850074F.FBEF6696@mediaone.net> Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 14:47:27 -0500 From: Janice Dallas X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-MOENE (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lindo@Radix.Net, h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Tartan (was Pink) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Janice Dallas Speaking of Tartans, My brother-in-law checked on the Dallas tartan a few years ago at the New Hampshire games, and got a print-out of a blue, pink, and green regular plaid. When he got a kilt made this year from that same Scottish textile manufacturer, it came as a lt. brown based, irregular plaid. Since he's a bit wide, and the stronger color stripe is side to side, it's not very flattering. Have you heard that there are clan tartans that are irregular plaids, especially with a paler cross stripe? I think the manufacturer goofed. -- Janice Dallas Boston,MA area, USA JaniceDals@MediaOne.net "Just so, the girl has beauty, virtue, wit..." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 9 13:33:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10337 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 13:33:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA26724; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 12:49:43 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA28359 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 10:38:57 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web2104.mail.yahoo.com (web2104.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.248]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA28344 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 10:38:54 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 10636 invoked by uid 60001); 9 Dec 1999 17:37:11 -0000 Message-ID: <19991209173711.10635.qmail@web2104.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.21.254.16] by web2104.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 09 Dec 1999 09:37:11 PST Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 09:37:11 -0800 (PST) From: Kristen Morgaine Sieber Subject: H-COST: posting URLs To: SCA-Arts list , SCA-Garb list , Historic Needlework , Historic Costume , An Tir list , Aquaterra list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kristen Morgaine Sieber Please, if you are posting a URL (for us lazy people), can you type the WHOLE address, i.e. "http://..." etc? Thanks, it makes it esier to link to! Morgaine __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 9 13:33:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10341 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 13:33:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA26784; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 12:49:52 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA07878 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 09:55:53 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.svr.pol.co.uk (mail1.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.18]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA07847 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 09:55:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from modem99.hulk.pol.co.uk ([195.92.6.99] helo=herimats) by mail1.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.11 #1) id 11w6r2-0002nK-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 09 Dec 1999 16:55:45 +0000 Message-ID: <001401bf4266$540b0910$63065cc3@herimats> From: "LDMundy" To: References: <384FDBCD.9B0FFB17@serv.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: Highland Dress (again) Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 16:54:59 -0000 Organization: Heritage Matters at Wysewords MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "LDMundy" To quote> > > I recently went to the following web site, which has an unfortunate > > attempt at what the seamstress calls a Highland Gown: > Just a thought. How do you know that she isn't on this list? Personally, I > would be very careful before posting a comment like this to a public forum. > We can't educate if someone's feelings are terribly hurt. > Cynthia Long > Merouda the True of Beaumaris > Barony of Madrone > Kingdom of AnTir I agree , but on the other hand -how refreshing to be directed to a site where the owner has taken such trouble to explain how things came about; what was done and why and all in a non patronising way. Top Marks I say. (Whos bothered about a profile i- its on a dummy with a single light --take a closer look) Dave _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 9 13:34:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10349 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 13:34:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA26993; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 12:50:14 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA26905 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 10:36:08 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from postal.grin.net (root@postal.grin.net [209.104.220.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA26882 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 10:36:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from [208.225.99.168] (ppp168.creative.net [208.225.99.168]) by postal.grin.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA28964 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 09:46:27 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: lilinah@mail.grin.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <0.6a512c98.25810fcb@aol.com> References: <0.6a512c98.25810fcb@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 09:35:51 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lilinah biti-Anat Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: phoenix textiles Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lilinah biti-Anat Gail Finke wrote: >WOW!!!! Someone in the last couple of days posted about velvet available at >Phoenix Textiles. The url she (?) posted didn't work for me, but I did find >it and I am astonished! I can't believe these prices!!! I am so mad that I >read that post today -- the day after their no shipping charges sale!!! >Anyway, that poster was happy with her order. If anyone else has done >business with them, would you please post me privately and let me know? I ordered some "burnt orange hemp cloth", because i was curious about hemp cloth and the price was right :-) (it was only $1US per yard) Then i ordered several other fabrics, all linens at around $1US, or a tad more, per yard. My total was around 24 yards of fabric for around $26. Did this all on the web site. Got e-mail confirmation of receipt of my order, then a more personal e-mail saying approximately when it would be sent, then an e-mail on the day it was shipped via UPS with the tracking number. And it arrived when it should have. This is my only experience, but it was certainly satisfactory. And i would consider buying from them again. Lilinah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 9 13:37:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10353 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 13:37:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27983; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 12:56:44 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA01036 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 12:56:39 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from luna.worldonline.nl (luna.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.131]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01014 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 12:56:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by luna.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA10655 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 20:56:29 +0100 (MET) Received: from henk (vp205-250.worldonline.nl [195.241.205.250]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA21770 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 20:56:28 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <00d401bf427f$3e11d8a0$10e9f1c3@henk> From: "Henk 't Jong - tScapreel" To: References: <4.1.19991206124052.00a257b0@pop.slip.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: lap dogs (was Kidstuff [was (Authenticity Enforcers)]) Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 20:31:17 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Henk 't Jong - tScapreel" Hi, Kayta wrote: > I read that lapdogs were very popular, among the non-working classes, > because their body temperature was warmer than that of humans. I see a lot > of small dogs in Late Medieval portraits, and this seems to bear me out > here. BTW, look for a web page about Bishon Frise dogs (spelling?) for > many many Medieval portraits with these dogs in them. They weren't called lapdogs for nothing... Remember: most portraits were of well-to-do to rich people, who had the leisure to care for lap dogs. Common to poor people had no time for feeding extra mouths and if a dog was kept for hunting rabbits or guarding the farm it was fed on scraps if they had any (most farmers did...) or had to fend (in the case of hunting dogs, of course) for itself. Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 9 13:38:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10357 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 13:38:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28108; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 12:57:10 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA01171 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 12:57:05 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from luna.worldonline.nl (luna.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.131]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01154 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 12:57:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by luna.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA10905 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 20:56:51 +0100 (MET) Received: from henk (vp205-250.worldonline.nl [195.241.205.250]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA21904 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 20:56:50 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <00d701bf427f$4b104320$10e9f1c3@henk> From: "Henk 't Jong - tScapreel" To: References: Subject: Re: H-COST: New book Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 20:53:27 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Henk 't Jong - tScapreel" Hi all, Robin wrote: > I don't read Italian, but someone out there may be interested in this new > book: > > Maria Giuseppina Muzzarelli, Guardaroba medievale: vesti e societa dal > 13. al 16. secolo (Bologna: Il mulino, 1999). > > I know nothing about this other than the rather promising title. (I have a > librarian friend who lets me know about any medieval costume publications > he happens to spot.) No bookshop or library on the web has heard yet of this book, but if you get to know more, please Robin, keep me posted. Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 9 13:38:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10361 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 13:38:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28037; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 12:56:56 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA01095 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 12:56:52 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from luna.worldonline.nl (luna.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.131]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01063 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 12:56:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by luna.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA10680 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 20:56:31 +0100 (MET) Received: from henk (vp205-250.worldonline.nl [195.241.205.250]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA21777 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 20:56:29 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <00d501bf427f$3f2607c0$10e9f1c3@henk> From: "Henk 't Jong - tScapreel" To: References: <5B38B8D7EED8D211997F00A0C9E57FB91DB6A4@HP-LH3> Subject: Re: H-COST: lap dogs Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 20:45:35 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Henk 't Jong - tScapreel" Hi, Maggi wrote: > The animals in portraits are often emblematic rather than literal. Ok, the > dogs could also be pets, I suppose, but they're in the picture to represent > something, I think it's fidelity. What came first the fidelity of the loved dog of somebody or the dog as symbol of fidelity in a painting. Most of the stuff art-hysterians write or say about medieval or renaissance painting sounds as so much balderdash to me. I can't number the older A-H's, including B. Berenson, who have fallen from grace when people started doing real historical research into the lives and worlds of the painters. > > Charles II, on the other hand, just loved his dogs and they really were > pets, not the working dogs of farms and family homes. As everybody knows Charles II is way later than the Middle Ages, but wouldn't his dogs appear in his portraits because he loved them (and gave them his name) than because they stood for fidelity? Incidentally, working dogs can also be loved and were. Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 9 14:41:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA10439 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 14:41:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA05558; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 13:48:31 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA14339 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 13:47:53 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA14314 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 13:47:44 -0700 (MST) Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 13:47:44 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 26676 invoked from network); 9 Dec 1999 20:47:32 -0000 Received: from 105.64.3-6.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (HELO JOANJURA) (207.231.64.105) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 9 Dec 1999 20:47:32 -0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19991209124817.486fee52@mail2.quiknet.com> X-Sender: joanj@mail2.quiknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: Re: H-COST: Tartan Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Joan M Jurancich At 02:47 PM 12/9/99 -0500, Janice Dallas wrote: > >-Poster: Janice Dallas > >Speaking of Tartans, My brother-in-law checked on the Dallas tartan a >few years ago at the New Hampshire games, and got a print-out of a blue, >pink, and green regular plaid. When he got a kilt made this year from >that same Scottish textile manufacturer, it came as a lt. brown based, >irregular plaid. Since he's a bit wide, and the stronger color stripe >is side to side, it's not very flattering. Have you heard that there >are clan tartans that are irregular plaids, especially with a paler >cross stripe? I think the manufacturer goofed. >-- >Janice Dallas >Boston,MA area, USA >JaniceDals@MediaOne.net >"Just so, the girl has beauty, virtue, wit..." Janice, There are irregular plaids in the "clan tartans" lists, though most of the patterns are regular. But it does sound like there is a problem. I would let them know about your bother-in-law's dissatisfaction with the kilt as delivered. I have my copy of The Scottish Lion catalog, but there is no listing for a Dallas tartan (does not mean there isn't one, just that they do not carry it). They are on the web at http://www.scottishlion.com. I hope you can get a satisfactory replacement from the manufacturer. Joan Jurancich Sacramento, CA joanj@quiknet.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 9 14:48:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA10449 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 14:48:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA07615; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 14:02:48 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA18334 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 14:02:13 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA18308 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 14:02:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991209210205.KFVW17996.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 13:02:05 -0800 Message-ID: <385018D2.9737722E@home.com> Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 15:02:10 -0600 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Tartan (was Pink) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kat & Kent Kevin & Mara Riley wrote: > > Um... are either of these based on actual tartans from before they > were outlawed (following the 1745 uprising), or were these some of the > many that were invented during the Victorian era, when tartans became > all the rage? Quoted from Scottish Lion (all emphasis mine): >The tartans represented here have been scanned from actual cloth > scarves. The colors are representative as different weavers use their > own eye and judgement to determine what color of light blue is "light" > etc. and, for the most part, the colors shown here are somewhat > **subdued**. >Modern colors are strong, vivid colors made possible by today's > chemical dyes. > **Ancient or old colors duplicate the shades produced by weavers in >the old days when dyes were made from vegetables, herbs and berries.** > Weathered colors or reproduction colors or muted colors approximate > the appearance of tartan cloth dyed with the old organic dyes and then > faded by years of highland weather. > Bruce Ancient You can't see it as well in the photo which is very muted but my dh has a tie of the Ancient Bruce and it's NEON... and every other tartan I've seen noted as Ancient Bruce is JUST as neon. Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 9 14:56:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA10455 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 14:56:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA09269; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 14:14:56 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA22013 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 14:14:50 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta4-svc.virgin.net (mta4-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.145]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA21991 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 14:14:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from LOCALNAME ([194.168.57.203]) by mta4-svc.virgin.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP id <19991209211435.DZD20699.mta4-svc.virgin.net@LOCALNAME> for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 21:14:35 +0000 Message-ID: <385090DB.271B@virgin.net> Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 21:34:19 -0800 From: Dawn Organization: ages of elegance (http://www.agesofelegance.co.uk) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-VN712-000 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Banyan question References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dawn No ther is only one on page 83 xxx111 dated 1750. They are built like the coats of the period and can be rather elaborate Dawn > Which one from 'Cut of Men's Clothes'? There's one that is more tailored, > and then the other seems less structured... can I assume that the > less-structured one is earlier, and the more-tailored one is later? > > Mara > > On Wed, 8 Dec 1999, Dawn wrote: > > > > > > > > > > There is an excellent account of making a banyan in the Uk's costume > > society journal can't remember offhand which, but the pattern in cut of > > men's clothes is the same one. > > I made a copy of it and it works very well > > > > Dawn > > > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 9 14:58:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA10459 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 14:58:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA09202; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 14:14:40 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA21927 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 14:14:34 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta3-svc.virgin.net (mta3-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.144]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA21907 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 14:14:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from LOCALNAME ([194.168.57.203]) by mta3-svc.virgin.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP id <19991209210756.WYVN8910.mta3-svc.virgin.net@LOCALNAME> for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 21:07:56 +0000 Message-ID: <38508FE4.246D@virgin.net> Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 21:30:12 -0800 From: Dawn Organization: ages of elegance (http://www.agesofelegance.co.uk) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-VN712-000 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Tartan (was Pink) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dawn Kevin & Mara Riley wrote: > > -Poster: Kevin & Mara Riley > > On Mon, 6 Dec 1999, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote:> > > >I haven't done natural dying since Girl Scout camp but I seem to recall > > >making something that came out pretty neon... and the ancient Bruce > > >tartan *screams* with neon orange & green. > > > > Then there's 'loud McLeod'. > > Um... are either of these based on actual tartans from before they were > outlawed (following the 1745 uprising), or were these some of the many > that were invented during the Victorian era, when tartans became all the > rage? > > 'Clan Tartans' are a common misconception -- if you look at the portraits > of Higland nobility from the 17th/18th centuries, you'll often see them > wearing multiple patterns of tartan at once, and in wildly conflicting > patterns (the predecessor of tacky golf clothing, I guess!). There is one > mention of a particular lord having his attendants dressed in tartan woven > from particular colors, but a sett (pattern) is not mentioned, so this > isn't much different from an English lord clothing his staff in a > particular set of colors for their livery. There are no mentions of 'Clan > Tartans' before the Victorian era. And there are very few tartans that > are actually based on pre-1745 patterns. > > Martin Martin, I believe, remarks that one could make a good guess at what > area someone came from based on the pattern of their plaid; but that's > different from having clan tartans. All that means is that weavers in a > particular area tended to turn out patterns of a certain type, and weavers > in the next glen wove patterns that were a little different. > > Cheers, > Mara > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME I agree. My society re-enactes the Jacobite rebellion in the Uk. It is now recognised that the 'tartans' are local weaves and dyes just as in most countries. these just happen to be of stripes and checks which were popular 18thc fabric designs anyway, Tartans as we know them are a victorian idea. Dawn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 9 15:50:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA10556 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 15:50:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA17777; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 15:08:40 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA06879 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 15:08:15 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo23.mx.aol.com (imo23.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.67]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA06861 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 15:08:13 -0700 (MST) From: M311@aol.com Received: from M311@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.bb8ef952 (3967) for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 17:07:40 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.bb8ef952.2581822c@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 17:07:40 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: phoenix textiles To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 38 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: M311@aol.com I have also worked with a company called Fabrics Unlimited. They have very nice fabric and good service. Their url is: http://www.fabricsunlimited.net/ They are out of Texas. They have sales through out the year, sometimes the same days as Phoenix Textiles. They have a variety of fabrics and all that I have ordered from them have been good quaility fabric. I have been nothing but pleased with them. They also take credit cards. Not to tempt anyone further to spend money. LOL Kelly m311@aol.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 9 15:55:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA10567 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 15:55:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA18471; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 15:13:53 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA08234 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 15:13:42 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA08223 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 15:13:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.10] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11wBoe-0007ha-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 14:13:36 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19991206190052.03aa5700@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 14:37:54 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: H-COST: if they'd had it they'd have used it??? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows If they'd had soap they'd have used it. Well, they did have soap, but they don't seem to have used it for keeping their hands clean. Until the germ theory was firmly established, the practice of using of soap on hands wasn't as common as it is today (to say the least). The Moslems traditionally use only their right hand for dealing with food at meals, because their left hand is used for dealing with the other end of the digestion process. Childbed fever was still prevalent in the 1800's because doctors didn't wash their hands between the dissecting room and the delivery room. Dr. Semmelweiss was in disagreement with his learned colleagues for suggesting a connexion between one and the other. His students complained about having to do the washing he insisted on, till the death statistics began to weigh in favour of his assertion. I think this was in the 1880's, but I'm not sure. If they'd had libidos they'd have used them. This is probably true for men, but hardly true for most women thru most of history. (I just watched 'Dangerous Beauty' again.) Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 9 15:56:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA10571 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 15:56:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA18487; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 15:13:55 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA08235 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 15:13:42 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA08213 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 15:13:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.10] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11wBoc-0007ha-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 14:13:35 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19991206185226.00c15100@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 14:37:47 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: H-COST: lap dogs (was Kidstuff [was (Authenticity Enforcers)]) In-Reply-To: <5B38B8D7EED8D211997F00A0C9E57FB91DB6A4@HP-LH3> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >The animals in portraits are often emblematic rather than literal. Ok, the >dogs could also be pets, I suppose, but they're in the picture to represent >something, I think it's fidelity. The dogs portrayed in the pictures on that web page don't look like any working breed I ever saw. And they all seem to be the same breed (whatever that is), and small enough to fit on a lap. Makes me wonder. OTOH, you might go to the web site (sorry, no url to give you) to see if they all look emblematic to you. Having been there, I think they look like pets. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 9 17:06:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA10687 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 17:06:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA28152; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 16:23:38 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA27180 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 16:22:13 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo23.mx.aol.com (imo23.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.67]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA27156 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 16:22:09 -0700 (MST) From: Hhdunlap@aol.com Received: from Hhdunlap@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.1876832c (15553) for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 18:21:22 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.1876832c.25819372@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 18:21:22 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: Pink To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Hhdunlap@aol.com Did you note what it was from the spice rack that produced the neon pink? Sounds like fun. The neon pink shows up in so many old paintings, that I'm convinced they had it too. Hope _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 9 17:18:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA10734 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 17:18:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA29672; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 16:36:35 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA01141 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 16:36:25 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA01117 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 16:36:22 -0700 (MST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.a838285c (4182) for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 18:35:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.a838285c.258196d5@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 18:35:49 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: phoenix textiles To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 44 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 12/09/1999 2:53:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, lilinah@grin.net writes: << I ordered some "burnt orange hemp cloth", because i was curious about hemp cloth and the price was right :-) >> Did that also come in Panama Red? Alcopoco Gold? Don't get arrested burning a piece to see if it's natural! Seriously...what WAS it like and did you use it for anything historic? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 9 18:12:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA10900 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 18:12:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA08010; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 17:30:11 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA14171 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 17:29:33 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA14163 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 17:29:31 -0700 (MST) From: Morghana@aol.com Received: from Morghana@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.cab3c46f (3971) for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 19:28:45 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.cab3c46f.2581a33d@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 19:28:45 EST Subject: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #843 To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 45 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Morghana@aol.com In a message dated 12/9/99 10:24:23 AM Eastern Standard Time, owner-h-costume-digest@indra.com writes: << From: Kevin & Mara Riley Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 08:36:27 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: H-COST: Banyan question - -Poster: Kevin & Mara Riley Thanks! That helps. Has anyone used Rocking Horse Farm patterns? What's that web site that has pattern reviews? Cheers, Mara >> I can't speak for any of their patterns other than the Houppeland. It sucks. There is not *nearly* enough fabric in the body of the garment and the sleeves are horribly wrong. Actually, the pattern I have .... if you cut the sleeve pieces exactly to pattern, they don't fit together. The collar also doesn't roll right. All in all, one of the worst patterns I've worked with. It had all the reputed problems I've seen for Period Patterns and didn't even have Period Patterns' decent documentation to offset the pain. ~Morghana _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 9 18:39:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA11000 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 18:39:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA11721; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 17:58:52 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA19014 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 17:57:00 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA18988 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 17:56:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r9p41.directcon.net [206.170.184.140]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA05235 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 16:56:50 -0800 Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 16:56:50 -0800 Message-Id: <199912100056.QAA05235@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: H-COST:Shopping in t Thailand and India? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson My brother is traveling in Thailand, and may be going to India. Naturally, I want him to bring me fabric. Can anyone advise me: where the best places to shop for fabric are? What would be a reasonable price to pay for changable Thai silk? What would be a reasonable price for a metallic embroidered silk sari? And, finally, did Victorian ladies ever actually make ball gowns out of those saris, or have I seen too many productions of "The King And I?" Thanks, Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 9 18:50:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA11038 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 18:50:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA13260; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 18:09:56 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA21067 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 18:08:12 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mx20.rmci.net (halcyon.rmci.net [205.162.184.63]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA21058 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 18:08:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 27297 invoked from network); 10 Dec 1999 01:08:01 -0000 Received: from pag-di82.rica.net (HELO rica.net) (209.211.110.82) by halcyon.rmci.net with SMTP; 10 Dec 1999 01:08:01 -0000 Message-ID: <3850510D.B483CB28@rica.net> Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 20:02:06 -0500 From: Jennie Chancey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: costume business References: <003001bf41bb$dd308ea0$9656f4d1@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Jennie Chancey I'd have to echo Heidi's comments on sewing for friends -- I always feel bad charging them -- but I also share Linda's feelings that it can be awkward to sew for friends, since the relationship takes a strange flavor. Can't explain it exactly.... Now to answer your questions: 1. Are you glad you made the jump to professional? Well, I still have a hard time calling myself "professional," since I do not have a degree in costume or fashion. I learned everything from my amazing mother, who learned from her grandmother. What she doesn't know isn't worth knowing! She is a fabulous seamstress. But, yes, technically I am a pro, since I sell my skills and make everything to a certain standard. And I have thoroughly enjoyed sewing for women all over the world. 2. Do you still enjoy sewing? Yes and no. Some weeks I go through strange fits of wanting to get as far away from my machine as possible. That's when I put all the sewing out of sight for a day and so something completely different. But then the "itch" hits again, and I am back at it. 3. Do you sell to friends AND stranger? Mostly to strangers, but I still sew for friends. 4. Do you prefer one over the other? Not really. 5. Do you sell strictly on-line or strictly at events? 95% of my business comes through the website, and I don't do events, so the rest of the orders are word of mouth or through my print catalogue. 6. Do you have inventory or do you only sew when ordered? Sew when ordered -- definitely! This is a fun and rewarding hobby/business. Jump on in! Cheers, Jennie Chancey -- Sense and Sensibility http://www.sensibility.com winsome clothing with an old-fashioned appeal _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 9 19:09:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA11141 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 19:09:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA15292; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 18:29:06 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA24559 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 18:27:22 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA24540 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 18:27:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r9p41.directcon.net [206.170.184.140]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA09566 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 17:27:13 -0800 Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 17:27:13 -0800 Message-Id: <199912100127.RAA09566@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: costume business Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson > >-Poster: Jennie Chancey > > >This is a fun and rewarding hobby/business. Jump on in! > Jennie, I just have to ask the vulgar question here: Do you actually make a living at costuming? Or is it extra money for your household? I ask because a couple of years ago, I asked the list if anyone on it was making an actual, full time, pay the rent and feed the children living at costuming, outside of theatrical, film, or teaching costume. No one was, out of the 700+ members. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 9 19:11:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA11150 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 19:11:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA15473; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 18:30:49 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA24876 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 18:29:06 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sd.znet.com (sd.znet.com [207.167.64.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA24853 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 18:29:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from savaskan (sdts10-16.znet.net [207.167.66.16]) by sd.znet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/jjb-sd) with SMTP id RAA08730 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 17:29:00 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199912100129.RAA08730@sd.znet.com> X-Envelope-From: savaskan@sd.znet.com X-Envelope-To: X-Sender: savaskan@sd.znet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 17:32:46 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Julie Adams Subject: Re: H-COST: lap dogs (was Kidstuff [was (Authenticity Enforcers)]) In-Reply-To: <00d401bf427f$3e11d8a0$10e9f1c3@henk> References: <4.1.19991206124052.00a257b0@pop.slip.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Julie Adams At 08:31 PM 12/9/99 +0100, you wrote: > >-Poster: "Henk 't Jong - tScapreel" > >Common >to poor people had no time for feeding extra mouths and if a dog was kept >for hunting rabbits or guarding the farm it was fed on scraps if they had >any (most farmers did...) or had to fend (in the case of hunting dogs, of >course) for itself. > >Henk And remember that not all small dogs are lap dogs. The terrier breeds developed specifically as ratters, rabbit dogs and badger dogs. They are small but also served a farm purpose. Julie Adams _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 9 19:29:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA11175 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 19:29:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA17056; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 18:45:09 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA27439 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 18:43:24 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mx20.rmci.net (halcyon.rmci.net [205.162.184.63]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA27429 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 18:43:22 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 2669 invoked from network); 10 Dec 1999 01:43:20 -0000 Received: from pag-di82.rica.net (HELO rica.net) (209.211.110.82) by halcyon.rmci.net with SMTP; 10 Dec 1999 01:43:20 -0000 Message-ID: <38505957.4EFF049C@rica.net> Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 20:37:28 -0500 From: Jennie Chancey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: costume business References: <199912100127.RAA09566@apollo.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Jennie Chancey Margo wrote: "Jennie, I just have to ask the vulgar question here: Do you actually make a living at costuming? Or is it extra money for your household?" LOL! I should have specified that in my first response. No, I do not "make a living" at sewing. I am a stay-at-home mom, and my kids are my first "job." I just love to sew, and this adds some "padding" to the family coffer. ;-) That's why I often call it a "hobby-business." Cheers, Jennie -- Sense and Sensibility http://www.sensibility.com winsome clothing with an old-fashioned appeal _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 9 19:29:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA11179 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 19:29:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA17289; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 18:46:27 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA27634 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 18:44:44 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from Herb-Lore.com (mail.herb-lore.com [209.141.89.62]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA27625 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 18:44:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from f1 [207.204.223.215] by Herb-Lore.com (SMTPD32-5.05) id A90816501C0; Thu, 09 Dec 1999 18:44:24 -0700 Message-ID: <001401bf42b8$4cea4360$0101a8c0@f1> From: "Heather" To: References: <003001bf41bb$dd308ea0$9656f4d1@pavilion> <3850510D.B483CB28@rica.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: costume business Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 18:43:10 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Heather" > I'd have to echo Heidi's comments on sewing for friends -- I always feel > bad charging them -- but I also share Linda's feelings that it can be > awkward to sew for friends, since the relationship takes a strange > flavor. Can't explain it exactly.... Question. I'm very much a novice, but I've still had a couple of people ask if I could make them something. I tell them no but I'd be very glad to help them if they wanted to make a day of it. No one has ever taken me up on it. Has anyone else tried this? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 9 19:53:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA11244 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 19:53:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA20837; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 19:12:30 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA02486 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 19:12:06 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from intergate.sdccd.cc.ca.us (intergate.sdccd.cc.ca.us [209.129.16.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA02478 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 19:12:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from ntxdistrict.sdccd.cc.ca.us (ntxdistrict.sdccd.cc.ca.us [10.1.100.1]) by intergate.sdccd.cc.ca.us (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA10967 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 18:09:32 -0800 (PST) Received: by ntxdistrict.sdccd.cc.ca.us with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 18:13:39 -0800 Message-ID: From: Heidi Fox To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: costume business Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 18:13:29 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Heidi Fox -Poster: "Heather" Question. I'm very much a novice, but I've still had a couple of people ask if I could make them something. I tell them no but I'd be very glad to help them if they wanted to make a day of it. No one has ever taken me up on it. Has anyone else tried this? Heather I must say that none of my friends sew, nor are they willing to undertake something like a period costume, even the simplest. I rather enjoy the challenge and the opportunity to make something new, so if fits with my time schedule and they are willing to pay for the majority or all of the materials, then I'll take it on. Only by doing this do I become better with each costume I make. I unfortunately won't spend the time or $$$ to just spontaneously make a ballgown or a frock coat(fabriholic that I am), if I don't have an event to sew one for, so my friends keep me busy in between the "real customers". I did have one friend who wanted an enormous squirrel's tail for a Rocky costume. She bought the fur, she drew and cut out the tail, I sewed it together and she stuffed it. Then we both rigged (and I do mean rigged) it to her person. Now that she knows how easy those things are, and is less daunted by "costuming" by doing something simple, she is more willing to do some of the non-sewing work on more complicated costumes. Heidi -----Original Message----- From: Heather [mailto:heather@herb-lore.com] Sent: Thursday, December 09, 1999 6:43 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: costume business -Poster: "Heather" > I'd have to echo Heidi's comments on sewing for friends -- I always feel > bad charging them -- but I also share Linda's feelings that it can be > awkward to sew for friends, since the relationship takes a strange > flavor. Can't explain it exactly.... Question. I'm very much a novice, but I've still had a couple of people ask if I could make them something. I tell them no but I'd be very glad to help them if they wanted to make a day of it. No one has ever taken me up on it. Has anyone else tried this? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 9 20:02:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA11263 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 20:02:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA21739; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 19:21:27 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA04086 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 19:21:22 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from intergate.sdccd.cc.ca.us (intergate.sdccd.cc.ca.us [209.129.16.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04075 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 19:21:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from ntxdistrict.sdccd.cc.ca.us (ntxdistrict.sdccd.cc.ca.us [10.1.100.1]) by intergate.sdccd.cc.ca.us (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA11132 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 18:18:52 -0800 (PST) Received: by ntxdistrict.sdccd.cc.ca.us with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 18:22:59 -0800 Message-ID: From: Heidi Fox To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: costume business Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 18:22:41 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Heidi Fox Hi again Heather, I also want to say that novice though you may be, if you're on this list, your costuming standards are likely higher than that of your non-sewing friends, and if you are refraining from making them costumes because you think you aren't good enough yet, rethink it! I look back on my first "professional sale" (sale to a stranger) and he was so pleased with a jerkin that I made for him that I'd never let out of my sewing room now! Heidi -----Original Message----- From: Heather [mailto:heather@herb-lore.com] Sent: Thursday, December 09, 1999 6:43 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: costume business -Poster: "Heather" > I'd have to echo Heidi's comments on sewing for friends -- I always feel > bad charging them -- but I also share Linda's feelings that it can be > awkward to sew for friends, since the relationship takes a strange > flavor. Can't explain it exactly.... Question. I'm very much a novice, but I've still had a couple of people ask if I could make them something. I tell them no but I'd be very glad to help them if they wanted to make a day of it. No one has ever taken me up on it. Has anyone else tried this? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 9 20:08:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA11268 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 20:08:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA22361; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 19:27:42 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA05025 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 19:27:35 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.12]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA05018 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 19:27:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from antiquity.pbc.adelphia.net (1Cust197.tnt9.west-palm-beach.fl.da.uu.net [63.15.146.197]) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA16673 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 18:27:32 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <005d01bf42b6$e914d180$c5920f3f@pbc.adelphia.net> From: "Erica D. Pence" To: References: <003001bf41bb$dd308ea0$9656f4d1@pavilion> <3850510D.B483CB28@rica.net> <001401bf42b8$4cea4360$0101a8c0@f1> Subject: Re: H-COST: costume business Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 21:33:12 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Erica D. Pence" < Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA11284 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 20:30:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA24728; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 19:49:54 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA08613 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 19:49:40 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA08600 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 19:49:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.230.149] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11wG7f-0001pl-00; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 18:49:31 -0800 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 18:45:27 -0800 To: (Recipient list suppressed) From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: H-COST: If you liked QE's Wardrobe unlock'd...this may be of interest Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" No one's mentioned that this book is out, so I will: ISBN 1872501893 : $150.00 -- v.1. LC Style Call#: DA332.I584 1998 The Inventory of King Henry VIII : Society of Antiquaries MS 129 and British Library MS Harley 1419. London : Harvey Miller for the Society of Antiquaries of London, c1998- . v. : ill. ; 29 cm. [Note: v.1 is NOT ill. and is xxviii, 511 p. of text] (Reports of the Research Committee of the Society of Antiquaries of London, 0953-7163 ; no. 96) CONTENTS: v.1. The transcript / ed. by David Starkey ; transcribed by Philip Ward (Asst. Ed.) and indexed by Alasdair Hawkyard. 1. Henry VIII, King of England, 1491-1547. 2. Great Britain--History--Henry VIII, 1509-1547. 3. Inventories of decedents' estates--England--London. 4. Manuscripts, English--England--London. I. Starkey, David. II. Society of Antiquaries of London. Manuscript. 129. III. British Library. Manuscript. Harley 1419. I found the listings alone incredible! For those of you who are on more than one of the lists to which I sent it, my apologies.-- Carol / Gra/inne _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 9 20:34:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA11296 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 20:34:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA25103; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 19:53:39 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA09287 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 19:53:35 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from pop1.cyberhighway.net (pop1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.35]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA09272 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 19:53:33 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199912100253.TAA09272@net.indra.com> Received: (qmail 21293 invoked from network); 9 Dec 1999 19:53:31 -0700 Received: from ts25-40.boi.cyberhighway.net (HELO kathy) (209.161.11.55) by pop1.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 9 Dec 1999 19:53:31 -0700 From: "K & J Hopkins" To: Subject: H-COST: Lucky Chicago Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 20:03:36 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "K & J Hopkins" In the December 3, Wall Street Journal, is an announcement for the 'Renaissance Portrait' exhibit, at the Art Institute of Chicago, on December 15. Raphael's 'Veiled Lady' will be exhibited. As I recall in the Medieval Miscellanea Chemise pattern, they site this portrait as a possible example of a drawstring neck type chemise. I'm not buying it myself, but it is a beautiful portrait and I am jealous of any of you who can attend. Kathlene _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 9 20:48:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA11315 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 20:48:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA26179; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 20:07:43 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA11524 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 20:07:33 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.60]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA11509 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 20:07:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from 216-164-48-126.c3-0.gth-ubr1.lnh-gth.md.cable.rcn.com ([216.164.48.126] helo=pavilion) by smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #3) id 11wGOX-0000s1-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 22:06:57 -0500 Message-ID: <007701bf42bb$ed3bcca0$0200a8c0@pavilion> From: "Megan McHugh" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: phoenix textiles Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 22:09:05 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Megan McHugh" ><< I ordered some "burnt orange hemp cloth", because i was curious about > hemp cloth and the price was right :-) >> I got some too and am still thinking about what to do with it. It seems to be a rather open weave. Have you washed it yet? How did it take it, if so? Dye? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 9 20:49:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA11319 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 20:49:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA26328; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 20:08:53 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA11821 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 20:08:49 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.nightowl.net (mail.nightowl.net [207.124.43.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA11815 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 20:08:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (robin@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by mail.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA24221 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 21:19:03 -0600 Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA10244 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 22:16:51 -0600 Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 22:16:50 -0600 (EST) From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: If you liked QE's Wardrobe unlock'd...this may be of interest In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Robin Netherton On Thu, 9 Dec 1999, Carol J. Bell Cannon wrote: > No one's mentioned that this book is out, so I will: > ISBN 1872501893 : $150.00 -- v.1. LC Style Call#: DA332.I584 1998 > The Inventory of King Henry VIII : Society of Antiquaries MS 129 and > British Library MS Harley 1419. London : Harvey Miller for the Society of > Antiquaries of London, c1998- . > v. : ill. ; 29 cm. [Note: v.1 is NOT ill. and is xxviii, 511 p. of text] > (Reports of the Research Committee of the Society of Antiquaries of London, > 0953-7163 ; no. 96) CONTENTS: v.1. The transcript / ed. by David Starkey > ; transcribed by Philip Ward (Asst. Ed.) and indexed by Alasdair Hawkyard. Actually, this did come up on the list once before. Drea and I both picked up copies at Kalamazoo in May. (They had two display copies there, and we grabbed them at a significant discount on the last day. Never could have managed it otherwise.) Though the $150 tag above surprises me. I seem to remember these going for $200, or $160 with conference discount. And conference discount is usually as good as you can possibly find for these things. But I may be wrong, and I don't have the catalog at hand to check. I look forward to seeing volume 2. --Robin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 9 20:53:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA11325 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 20:53:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA26623; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 20:12:52 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA12440 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 20:12:42 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from Herb-Lore.com (mail.herb-lore.com [209.141.89.62]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA12431 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 20:12:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from f1 [207.204.223.219] by Herb-Lore.com (SMTPD32-5.05) id ADA74701F8; Thu, 09 Dec 1999 20:12:23 -0700 Message-ID: <001401bf42c4$8d207100$0101a8c0@f1> From: "Heather" To: References: Subject: Re: H-COST: costume business Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 20:10:51 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Heather" > Hi again Heather, > > I also want to say that novice though you may be, if you're on this list, > your costuming standards are likely higher than that of your non-sewing > friends, and if you are refraining from making them costumes because you > think you aren't good enough yet, rethink it! I look back on my first > "professional sale" (sale to a stranger) and he was so pleased with a jerkin > that I made for him that I'd never let out of my sewing room now! > > Heidi Thanks for your vote of confidence, Heidi, but, by joining this list, I'm finding out how much I never knew I never knew (sounds like Pocahontas, huh?). The good note is that I'm really enjoying this list! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 9 21:29:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA11372 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 21:29:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA00351; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 20:48:07 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA17655 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 20:47:51 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA17649 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 20:47:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from wanda (st-ppp10.hevanet.com [198.5.254.184]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id TAA28815 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 19:47:45 -0800 (PST) From: "Wanda Pease" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Re: phoenix textiles Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 19:44:51 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <007701bf42bb$ed3bcca0$0200a8c0@pavilion> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Wanda Pease" I bought the burnt orange hemp too. I cut off a couple of yards to use under my cutwork Thanksgiving tablecloth, then washed it in hot water with some other clothes. I did not notice any shrinkage (I was sort of hoping) and the color seems to have stayed exactly the same, or a bit softer. The color is a sort of red orange/copper color, and really one of my favorites. I'm not sure what I'm going to use it for because of its open weave which makes it a bit light for most outer garb here in AnTir. It will make lovely under tunics though, and I have enough to line the inside of a pavilion if I want to! :-) Reference Phoenix textiles. I've ordered five or six times from them now, and been very happy with their service and prices. The products are as advertised, my only problem is that they aren't necessarily what I expected. The blue 100% wool they had for $1.95 was the greatest bargain I've ever gotten, it washed down to a lovely cobalt with a soft fuzzy nap. This place is a real find, and I'll certainly buy more as they come up with stuff. They are very responsive to customer feedback, so let's all whine about needing plain colored wools and silk! :-) Regina > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Megan McHugh > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 1999 7:09 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: phoenix textiles > > > > -Poster: "Megan McHugh" > > ><< I ordered some "burnt orange hemp cloth", because I was curious about > > hemp cloth and the price was right :-) >> > > > I got some too and am still thinking about what to do with it. > It seems to > be a rather open weave. Have you washed it yet? How did it take > it, if so? > Dye? > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 9 21:50:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA11431 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 21:50:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA02838; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 21:09:29 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA20784 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 21:09:19 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.62]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA20765 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 21:09:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from 207-172-45-209.s209.tnt5.brd.va.dialup.rcn.com ([207.172.45.209] helo=erols.com) by smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #3) id 11wHMJ-0004Sd-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 23:08:44 -0500 Message-ID: <3850A775.FC9ABA5E@erols.com> Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 23:10:45 -0800 From: "David S. Mallinak" Organization: Red Dragon Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Banyan question References: <385090DB.271B@virgin.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "David S. Mallinak" One other source for a Banyan. Ms. Beth Gilgun wrote a article for here column "Tidings From the 18th Century". The article orginally appeared in the July/August 1993 issue of Muzzleloader. I believe that Ms. Gilgun did included in her book of the same name. David S Mallinak _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 9 22:12:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA11493 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 22:12:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA05252; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 21:31:19 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA24204 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 21:31:10 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA24194 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 21:31:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from great-hal (ip48.toronto14.dialup.canada.psi.net [154.5.67.48]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA08479 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 23:31:06 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 23:31:06 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19991209233524.1a9f524c@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: msmclean@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: "Marsha S. McLean" Subject: H-COST: costume business Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Marsha S. McLean" You wrote: >Question. I'm very much a novice, but I've still had a couple of people ask >if I could make them something. I tell them no but I'd be very glad to help >them if they wanted to make a day of it. No one has ever taken me up on it. >Has anyone else tried this? Yes, I frequently make that offer. The most interesting time I had was when a trio of SCA "stick jock" types took me up on it. We had a fun 36 hours of straight sewing, and I'm pretty sure none of them has ever done it again, but they now appreciate what is made for them in a way no-one who has never made their own clothes ever could. mm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 9 22:30:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA11508 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 22:30:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA06780; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 21:47:32 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA26771 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 21:47:15 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from proxy4.ba.best.com (root@proxy4.ba.best.com [206.184.139.15]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA26757 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 21:47:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from best.com (lavolta.vip.best.com [206.86.95.234]) by proxy4.ba.best.com (8.9.3/8.9.2/best.out) with ESMTP id UAA17997 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 20:45:33 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3850864E.F7FE3B52@best.com> Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 20:49:18 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: If you liked QE's Wardrobe unlock'd...this may be of interest References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lavolta Press Carol J. Bell Cannon wrote: > -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" > > No one's mentioned that this book is out, so I will: > ISBN 1872501893 : $150.00 -- v.1. LC Style Call#: DA332.I584 1998 > The Inventory of King Henry VIII : Society of Antiquaries MS 129 and > British Library MS Harley 1419. London : Harvey Miller for the Society of > Antiquaries of London, c1998- . > v. : ill. ; 29 cm. [Note: v.1 is NOT ill. and is xxviii, 511 p. of text] > (Reports of the Research Committee of the Society of Antiquaries of London, > 0953-7163 ; no. 96) CONTENTS: v.1. The transcript / ed. by David Starkey > ; transcribed by Philip Ward (Asst. Ed.) and indexed by Alasdair Hawkyard. > 1. Henry VIII, King of England, 1491-1547. 2. Great > Britain--History--Henry VIII, 1509-1547. 3. Inventories of decedents' > estates--England--London. 4. Manuscripts, English--England--London. I. > Starkey, David. II. Society of Antiquaries of London. Manuscript. 129. > III. British Library. Manuscript. Harley 1419. > I found the listings alone incredible! For those of you who are on > more than one of the lists to which I sent it, my apologies.-- Carol / Gra/inne Someone mentioned this on h-costume awhile back. It is listed on the UK amazon.com site, but not the American one as far as I can tell. It _is_ on the American Barnes & Noble web site. But the transcript mentioned is Volume I. Are the other volumes even published yet? Fran _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 9 22:48:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA11540 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 22:48:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA08848; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 22:07:13 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA29976 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 22:07:05 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA29961 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 22:07:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA11851 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 21:07:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-179.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.179]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA04206 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 21:07:00 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <015501bf42ce$d641dcc0$8c52fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: References: Subject: Re: H-COST: If you liked QE's Wardrobe unlock'd...this may be of interest Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 21:24:29 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" > Though the $150 tag above surprises me. I seem to remember these going for > $200, or $160 with conference discount. > > --Robin It surprised me too. I had Borders pull it up on their computer about three months ago and it listed for $180. They weren't planning on keeping it in stock at the stores because of the cost; special item orders only. Michelle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 9 23:00:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA11559 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 23:00:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA09819; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 22:19:19 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA01900 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 22:18:56 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.71]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA01892 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 22:18:54 -0700 (MST) From: AlbraKat@aol.com Received: from AlbraKat@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.b64cf2e2 (4261) for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 00:18:15 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.b64cf2e2.2581e716@aol.com> Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 00:18:14 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: Pink To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 58 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbraKat@aol.com I'm still looking for my notes from my class, with all the little samples attached--so I can tell you all what it was I used to produce that nifty neon/fuschia pink--and I actually have seen similar shades in various medieval, as well later , 16th century paintings:) albra _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 9 23:05:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA11571 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 23:05:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA10233; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 22:25:14 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA02644 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 22:24:43 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bajor.ici.net (bajor.ici.net [207.180.0.58]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA02627 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 22:24:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.0.2] (d-gnaps-53.ici.net [207.180.12.60]) by bajor.ici.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA01552 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 00:25:00 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199912100525.AAA01552@bajor.ici.net> Subject: H-COST: Acapulco Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 00:24:30 -0500 x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v3, January 22, 1998 From: Irene leNoir To: "H-Costume" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id WAA02636 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Irene leNoir Hello Everyone, I've recently learned that I'm going to be taking a trip to Acapulco in February. As all the literature on the web seems geared towards the sun-worshipping type of person (which I'm not), I thought I'd ask you folks for advice. Has anyone been there? Do you have any advice about activities, places to see, items to shop for? Obviously I'm interested in anything having to do with fabric :) but I'd also be interested in whatever local handcrafts may be available. Jessica Clark SCA: Irène leNoir irene@ici.net http://home.ici.net/~beowulf/jessica _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 9 23:38:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA11642 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 23:38:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA12676; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 22:57:35 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA06622 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 22:57:18 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.nightowl.net (mail.nightowl.net [207.124.43.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA06613 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 22:57:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (robin@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by mail.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA28370 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 00:07:32 -0600 Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id BAA11439 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 01:05:20 -0600 Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 01:05:20 -0600 (EST) From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: If you liked QE's Wardrobe unlock'd...this may be of interest In-Reply-To: <015501bf42ce$d641dcc0$8c52fea9@gunsafes> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Robin Netherton Me: > > Though the $150 tag above surprises me. I seem to remember these going for > > $200, or $160 with conference discount. Michelle: > It surprised me too. I had Borders pull it up on their computer about > three months ago and it listed for $180. They weren't planning on keeping > it in stock at the stores because of the cost; special item orders only. Perhaps the book (coming from a British publisher) is priced in pounds, and American retailers are basing their prices on different exchange rates from different times. I haven't kept track of currency exchange lately, so I don't know if the rate was significantly different last May compared to now. To answer Fran: Just Volume 1 is out. That's the transcript of the inventories themselves. Volumes 2 and 3 will be commentary, including historical context, analyses of specific categories of objects by various scholars, and plates (both b/w and color). At least that's what Volume 1 promises. --Robin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 9 23:56:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA11658 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 23:56:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA13798; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 23:15:57 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA08879 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 23:15:52 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.nj.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.nj.home.com [24.3.128.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA08866 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 23:15:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from cc1010062a ([24.3.134.203]) by mail.rdc1.nj.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <19991210061547.TYIB8001.mail.rdc1.nj.home.com@cc1010062a> for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 22:15:47 -0800 Message-ID: <01af01bf42d6$0e0052c0$cb860318@avnl1.nj.home.com> From: "Kyna Grannd" To: References: Subject: Re: H-COST: If you liked QE's Wardrobe unlock'd...this may be of interest Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 01:16:10 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Kyna Grannd" > > -Poster: Robin Netherton > > > Me: > > > Though the $150 tag above surprises me. I seem to remember these going for > > > $200, or $160 with conference discount. > > Michelle: > > It surprised me too. I had Borders pull it up on their computer about > > three months ago and it listed for $180. They weren't planning on keeping > > it in stock at the stores because of the cost; special item orders only. > > Perhaps the book (coming from a British publisher) is priced in pounds, > and American retailers are basing their prices on different exchange rates > from different times. I haven't kept track of currency exchange lately, so > I don't know if the rate was significantly different last May compared to When I got mine from a UK dealer a year or so back, I paid $125.00 US dollars plus shipping. It's actually a used one, but I've yet to find anything that would make me think the previous owner even opened the book. The spine isn't cracked and it has the original dust jacket in excellent shape. ~Kyna Grannd Garb Historic Clothing Supplies and Accessories http://GranndGarb.com info@granndgarb.com ICQ#12859312 _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 10 00:20:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA11673 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 00:20:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA15456; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 23:39:39 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA11665 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 23:39:20 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mx.serv.net (mx.serv.net [205.153.153.234]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA11653 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 23:39:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from gia-g (dialup324.serv.net [207.207.70.217]) by mx.serv.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id WAA03178 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 22:39:15 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <002001bf42d8$f45f03e0$d946cfcf@gia-g> From: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: costume business Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 22:36:54 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" Greetings! I've offered, and the offer has been taken up by friends. It's loads of fun! I've only one instance where I've offered to help (and to work with the gal to teach her) where I've felt completely taken advantage of. Hasn't happened since. Gia/Giacinta >-Poster: "Erica D. Pence" > ><ask if I could make them something. I tell them no but I'd be very glad to >help them if they wanted to make a day of it. No one has ever taken me up on >it. Has anyone else tried this? > >I've tried this with friends, too. None of my friends took me up on the >offer, either. Funny, that! > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 10 02:05:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA14770 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 02:05:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA20654; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 01:24:25 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA22561 for h-costume-nopost; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 01:23:29 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA22554 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 01:23:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.230.169] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11wLKl-0000EB-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 00:23:24 -0800 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 00:19:20 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: If you liked QE's Wardrobe unlock'd...this may be of interest In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 10:16 PM 12/09/1999 -0600, you wrote: > >-Poster: Robin Netherton >Actually, this did come up on the list once before. Drea and I both picked >up copies at Kalamazoo in May. (They had two display copies there, and we >grabbed them at a significant discount on the last day. Never could have >managed it otherwise.) My apologies. I missed that. >Though the $150 tag above surprises me. I seem to remember these going for >$200, or $160 with conference discount. And conference discount is usually >as good as you can possibly find for these things. But I may be wrong, and >I don't have the catalog at hand to check. It may be that the University Library, having gotten a standing order for the entire set, and possibly having ordered it before publication, got a discount that the public would not have. I note that is was originally listed at $225.00 for v.1. >I look forward to seeing volume 2. According to Advanced Book Exchange, v.2-3 were also published in 1998. The ISBNs for them are: v.2: 1872501944X and v.3: 1872501990. They were listed with a seller from the UK at 150Lbs UK or ca. $2andsomething US. All I can say is that I had v.1 in hand to catalog, but no further volumes at this time. I, too, will be waiting for the others. -- Carol _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 10 05:08:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA17190 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 05:08:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA01009; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 04:26:00 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA08538 for h-costume-nopost; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 04:25:33 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta3-svc.virgin.net (mta3-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.144]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA08532 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 04:25:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from LOCALNAME ([194.168.70.134]) by mta3-svc.virgin.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP id <19991210111950.ITG8910.mta3-svc.virgin.net@LOCALNAME> for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 11:19:50 +0000 Message-ID: <385156AB.437B@virgin.net> Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 11:38:19 -0800 From: Dawn Organization: ages of elegance (http://www.agesofelegance.co.uk) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-VN712-000 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: costume business References: <001401bf42c4$8d207100$0101a8c0@f1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dawn I have been making costumes for a living for over 10 years as I live in London on my own I have to work extremely hard at it to be able to pay the exorbitant living charges here. I have made for museums, films, theatre, private collectors, brides, grooms and re-enactors. I was doing it before I became a re-enactor and this just expanded my market. I don't generally sew for friends anymore as the only times I have been shot in the foot was for friends. I have a very strict business way of working and very tight terms and conditons which are vital. I don't do much re-enactment work and even if I display at shows rarely sell as I am much too expensive having to do this for a living rather than a secondary living means my prices have to be higher. But I am lucky in that I have a very good name over here and people save up to have one of my outfits. The only person who gets freebies is my other half as I experiment with men's styles on him. I have just started selling over the web and have had an excellent response so far which means I don't have to advertise in magazines as much. this should save me a fortune. Although web culture is still new over here so I will still have to do some otf that as well. My advice is to be varied and flexible in what you do Have strict controls on the value of YOUR time and stick to them Have good terms and conditions Learn to say no to a job if it's not right for you (this is the hardest one of all) I do have the girls from my group over to sew as I made a decision when I started to run the 18thc group that they couldn't afford me and I couldn't charge them to have kit made, but as non of them sewed I would rather teach them properly and keep the group at a high dress standard rather than letting them go and get cheap stuff elsewhere. This has worked very well and not one of them is going to go off and make for anyone else Dawn > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME -- Ïࡱá _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 10 05:22:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA17198 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 05:22:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA01776; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 04:42:04 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA10044 for h-costume-nopost; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 04:41:59 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA10038 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 04:41:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) id <01JJC2ZGGT9C0004VG@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 11:41:50 GMT Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) with ESMTP id <01JJC2ZEXBLU000WVK@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 11:41:41 +0000 (GMT) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); 10 Dec 99 11:39:01 GMT0BST Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44) ; 10 Dec 99 11:38:37 GMT0BST Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.126) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; 10 Dec 99 11:38:36 GMT0BST Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 11:38:36 +0000 (GMT) From: Teddy Subject: H-COST:Helping friends to make costumes In-reply-to: <199912100524.WAA02657@net.indra.com> To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: <1A688871A7@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Teddy > < people ask if I could make them something. I tell them no but I'd be > very glad to help them if they wanted to make a day of it. No one has > ever taken me up on it. Has anyone else tried this? > > I've tried this with friends, too. None of my friends took me up on > the offer, either. Funny, that! I do this all the time (so much that I'm pushed for time to make costumes for *me*). Some of them have gone from strength to strength and started making costumes without my help (occasional phon-calls to check the next step not withstanding....) others turn up when they want a new costume so we can work at it together, others are happy to hold things, hand me things and do the hand finishing (which I *hate* anyway) but won't attempt the "making" part. I can usually tellt he ones who are going to go on to unaccompanied costuming by the way they champ at the bit to go out and get their own sewing machines. My "best-student" made himself a velvet doublet (with my help) as his irst project and followed it up by making his wife a boned bodice and matching skirt with very lottle help at all. I got a delighted message from his wife shortly after that. She'd been away on a daytrrip with her mother and brother and got back to find he'd made a copy of her favourite denim skirt - she'd always said it was a few inches shorter than she liked, so he'd bought the fabric and made a copy of it with the extra few inches of length. Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of air and darkness, apparently!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 10 07:09:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA17272 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 07:09:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA08835; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 06:29:05 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA20794 for h-costume-nopost; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 06:28:41 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mx02.uni-tuebingen.de (mx02.uni-tuebingen.de [134.2.3.12]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA20783 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 06:28:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from w047 (w047.ub.uni-tuebingen.de [134.2.33.47]) by mx02.uni-tuebingen.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA00643 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 14:28:36 +0100 Message-Id: <199912101328.OAA00643@mx02.uni-tuebingen.de> From: "Ulrike Mehringer" Organization: UB Tuebingen To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 14:28:36 +0200 Subject: Re: H-COST: Manuscript books (was Re; Pink) Priority: normal In-reply-to: <384EACD9.11059EC2@serv.net> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Ulrike Mehringer" > I have looked and looked and can't find the Romance of > Alexander or the Manesse Codex. Which leads me to believe that the > books are titled differently. I would so love some titles or your > book list or something along those lines. Can you do this? > > Merouda The Codex Manesse is also known as "Heidelberger Liederhandschrift" or "Manessische Liederhandschrift" or "Manessesche Liederhandschrift". You may try to search the LOC catalogue http://www.loc.gov/catalog/ Ulrike ================================================================= Ulrike Mehringer UNIVERSITAETSBIBLIOTHEK TUEBINGEN Postfach 2620 Tel.:+49 7071 / 29-77859 72016 Tuebingen Fax :+49 7071 / 29-3123 http://www.uni-tuebingen.de/ub ================================================================= _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 10 09:07:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA17390 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 09:07:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA25804; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 08:25:37 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA12809 for h-costume-nopost; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 08:25:06 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from eclipse.pacifier.com (eclipse.pacifier.com [199.2.117.78]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA12788 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 08:25:02 -0700 (MST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: from grendal2 (ip232.van19.pacifier.com [216.65.141.232]) by eclipse.pacifier.com (8.9.3/8.9.3pop) with SMTP id HAA03527 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 07:24:44 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199912101524.HAA03527@eclipse.pacifier.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 07:27:10 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: If you liked QE's Wardrobe unlock'd...this may be of Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > No one's mentioned that this book is out, so I will: > ISBN 1872501893 : $150.00 -- v.1. LC Style Call#: DA332.I584 1998 > The Inventory of King Henry VIII : Society of Antiquaries MS 129 and > British Library MS Harley 1419. London : Harvey Miller for the Society of > Antiquaries of London, c1998- . > v. : ill. ; 29 cm. [Note: v.1 is NOT ill. and is xxviii, 511 p. of text] > (Reports of the Research Committee of the Society of Antiquaries of London, > 0953-7163 ; no. 96) CONTENTS: v.1. The transcript / ed. by David Starkey > ; transcribed by Philip Ward (Asst. Ed.) and indexed by Alasdair Hawkyard. > 1. Henry VIII, King of England, 1491-1547. 2. Great > Britain--History--Henry VIII, 1509-1547. 3. Inventories of decedents' > estates--England--London. 4. Manuscripts, English--England--London. I. > Starkey, David. II. Society of Antiquaries of London. Manuscript. 129. > III. British Library. Manuscript. Harley 1419. > I found the listings alone incredible! For those of you who are on > more than one of the lists to which I sent it, my apologies.-- Carol / Gra/inne I have this book and it's wonderful good fun. I just wish that volume 2 and 3 were out as they explain what is in volume 1 and were supposed to have more clothing information in them. They were supposed to be out but were put off. I believe it is volume 3 which Janet Arnold had a part in. Hopefully they will get the last 2 volumes out eventually. Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 10 10:00:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA17424 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 10:00:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA03653; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 09:18:06 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA26267 for h-costume-nopost; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 09:17:42 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bodyguard.apsc.com (bodyguard.apsc.com [137.91.114.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA26229 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 09:17:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailhub.apsc.com (mailhub.apsc.commailhub.apsc.com [137.91.1.30]) by apsc.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA06274 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 09:33:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from nt170.apsc.com (nt170.apsc.com [137.91.1.61]) by mailhub.apsc.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA23586 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 09:17:27 -0700 (MST) Received: by nt170.apsc.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 09:17:25 -0700 Message-ID: <7F402D0574C3D011ACF000A0C92B23D3025E113E@nt13pv.apsc.com> From: "Knauf, Saragrace T(Z02001)" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: H-COST: Sumptuary Law violations-point to resource? Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 09:17:20 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Knauf, Saragrace T(Z02001)" Can anyone point me to a resource that discusses in fair detail how violations of sumptuary laws were dealt with? I have just picked up bits and pieces that while the laws were in place they were basically ignored. Any help would be appreciated. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 10 10:19:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA17440 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 10:19:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA06689; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 09:36:43 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA01281 for h-costume-nopost; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 09:36:23 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.85]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA01268 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 09:36:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (dialup-209.244.87.225.Washington2.Level3.net [209.244.87.225]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA27881; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 08:36:19 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <002b01bf432e$605fa220$e157f4d1@pavilion> From: "Andrea Gideon" To: "H-Costume" , Subject: H-COST: Fw: taffeta? Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 11:48:23 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Andrea Gideon" Can any one answer this question? Andrea\ > Do you have any idea if taffeta is a period fabric (for mid-1400s?) > > Hope the moving and garbing is going well! > > Brighid née Chris > > Chris Harrison, Sr. Writer/Editor > Office of Public Affairs > The Catholic University of America > www.cua.edu > e-mail: harrisoc@cua.edu > 202/319-6976 (direct) > 202/319-5600 (main) > 202/319-4440 (fax) > > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 10 10:41:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA17462 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 10:41:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA10300; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 10:00:12 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA07594 for h-costume-nopost; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 09:59:52 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA07582 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 09:59:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA01398; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 09:00:18 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <385131D6.7CA94576@serv.net> Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 09:01:11 -0800 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com CC: SCA-GARB@LIST.UVM.EDU Subject: Re: H-COST: Fw: taffeta? References: <002b01bf432e$605fa220$e157f4d1@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > > Do you have any idea if taffeta is a period fabric (for mid-1400s?) I would say yes. It was sometimes known as shot silk. Hmmm, I should say that changeable taffeta (aka shot silk) was period. It is a simple plain weave, using one color for the warp and one color for the weft. Now, I don't have any documentation at my fingertips or even at arms length, but it seems to me, in my memory bank, that this is so. Merouda/Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of AnTir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 10 10:43:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA17466 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 10:43:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA10537; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 10:02:06 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA08164 for h-costume-nopost; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 10:01:27 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web606.mail.yahoo.com (web606.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.170]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA08138 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 10:01:25 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 17794 invoked by uid 60001); 10 Dec 1999 17:00:13 -0000 Message-ID: <19991210170013.17793.qmail@web606.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.161.4.112] by web606.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 09:00:13 PST Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 09:00:13 -0800 (PST) From: Valerie Robertson Subject: Re: H-COST: Fw: taffeta? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Valerie Robertson Well, you have to define taffeta - my research (none of which I have at hand, sorry) has turned up a thick, silk based, warp-faced weave known as taffety and tassety as early as the 12th century. If you consider taffeta to be a warp-faced rep weave (plain/tabby weave with the lengthwise threads much closer together than the crosswise threads), then yes, it was available in the 14th century. If, however, you're thinking about the plastic stuff labled "taffeta" in the fabric store, that may be another story. It is both thinner and stiffer than the historical equivalent would have been. A better approximation of historical taffeta *might* be bengaline or drapery moire. Anyone else have thoughts on the matter? Briony --- Andrea Gideon wrote: > > -Poster: "Andrea Gideon" > > Can any one answer this question? > Andrea\ > > > Do you have any idea if taffeta is a period fabric > (for mid-1400s?) > > > > Hope the moving and garbing is going well! > > > > Brighid née Chris > > > > Chris Harrison, Sr. Writer/Editor > > Office of Public Affairs > > The Catholic University of America > > www.cua.edu > > e-mail: harrisoc@cua.edu > > 202/319-6976 (direct) > > 202/319-5600 (main) > > 202/319-4440 (fax) > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to > majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 10 10:54:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA17477 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 10:54:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA12314; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 10:14:12 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA11801 for h-costume-nopost; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 10:14:07 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bigred.unl.edu (00217146@bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA11786 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 10:14:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (00217146@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA32085 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 11:19:07 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 11:19:06 -0600 (CST) From: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: costume business In-Reply-To: <002001bf42d8$f45f03e0$d946cfcf@gia-g> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> > I've offered, and the offer has been taken up by friends. It's loads of > fun! > > I've only one instance where I've offered to help (and to work with the gal > to teach her) where I've felt completely taken advantage of. Hasn't > happened since. I, too, have offered to help/teach, and had that offer taken up, with great success. Jay never knew he could sew so well! But I have also been taken advantage of ("Can you help with a velvet cloak?" turned into "Here's 4 yards of crushed stretch panne, can you have it done in a week?"), which is why *I'm* particularly interested in this conversation, as I'm thinking of starting a business, too. Emma _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 10 11:45:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA17528 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 11:45:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA20156; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 11:01:00 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA25282 for h-costume-nopost; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 11:00:22 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ogopogo.flash.net (ogopogo.flash.net [209.30.2.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA25271 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 11:00:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from flash.net (p75.amax22.dialup.hou1.flash.net [209.30.69.75]) by ogopogo.flash.net (8.9.3/Pro-8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA11120 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 12:00:19 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <38513F6A.7600A61@flash.net> Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 11:59:06 -0600 From: Charlene Charette X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: New book References: <00d701bf427f$4b104320$10e9f1c3@henk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Charlene Charette Henk 't Jong - tScapreel wrote: > Robin wrote: > > I don't read Italian, but someone out there may be interested in this new > > book: > > > > Maria Giuseppina Muzzarelli, Guardaroba medievale: vesti e societa dal > > 13. al 16. secolo (Bologna: Il mulino, 1999). > > > No bookshop or library on the web has heard yet of this book, but if you get > to know more, please Robin, keep me posted. The publisher's web page is http://www.mulino.it and it appears that they accept online orders. --Charlene -- The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place, but also to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 10 12:51:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA17595 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 12:51:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA29560; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 12:09:16 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA16438 for h-costume-nopost; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 12:08:35 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from Herb-Lore.com (mail.herb-lore.com [209.141.89.62]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA16410 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 12:08:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from f1 [207.204.223.200] by Herb-Lore.com (SMTPD32-5.05) id ADAE1B101E6; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 12:08:14 -0700 Message-ID: <001a01bf434a$4fd281e0$0101a8c0@f1> From: "Heather" To: References: Subject: Re: H-COST: costume business Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 12:08:21 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Heather" > week?"), which is why *I'm* particularly interested in this conversation, > as I'm thinking of starting a business, too. How do most of you bill (or are thinking of billing)? Is it hourly, by the piece, combinations? Do you give estimates or set a firm price up front? Are expenses (fabric, trim,...) included in the price or are they extra? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 10 12:54:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA17599 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 12:54:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00177; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 12:13:10 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA18344 for h-costume-nopost; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 12:12:51 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA18330 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 12:12:49 -0700 (MST) From: Hhdunlap@aol.com Received: from Hhdunlap@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.846ca992 (6092) for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 14:12:10 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.846ca992.2582aa8a@aol.com> Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 14:12:10 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: Banyan question To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Hhdunlap@aol.com That's right. About mid-century, the banyan might have had loose pleats starting at the waist, but later in the century,they were much more form-fitting and the pleats might have been stitched in place. Hope _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 10 12:55:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA17603 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 12:55:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00312; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 12:13:56 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA18813 for h-costume-nopost; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 12:13:51 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from intergate.sdccd.cc.ca.us (intergate.sdccd.cc.ca.us [209.129.16.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA18795 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 12:13:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from ntxdistrict.sdccd.cc.ca.us (ntxdistrict.sdccd.cc.ca.us [10.1.100.1]) by intergate.sdccd.cc.ca.us (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA25943 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 11:11:13 -0800 (PST) Received: by ntxdistrict.sdccd.cc.ca.us with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 11:15:27 -0800 Message-ID: From: Heidi Fox To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: costume business Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 11:15:15 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Heidi Fox Heather, I must highly recommend Margo Anderson's site with a great page on beginning a costuming business: http://www.directcon.net/wander/cosbiz.htm Heidi -----Original Message----- From: Heather [mailto:heather@herb-lore.com] Sent: Friday, December 10, 1999 12:08 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: costume business -Poster: "Heather" > week?"), which is why *I'm* particularly interested in this conversation, > as I'm thinking of starting a business, too. How do most of you bill (or are thinking of billing)? Is it hourly, by the piece, combinations? Do you give estimates or set a firm price up front? Are expenses (fabric, trim,...) included in the price or are they extra? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 10 13:34:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17639 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 13:34:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA03892; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 12:42:45 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA28618 for h-costume-nopost; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 12:42:21 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from Herb-Lore.com (mail.herb-lore.com [209.141.89.62]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28605 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 12:42:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from f1 [207.204.223.200] by Herb-Lore.com (SMTPD32-5.05) id A59CE001FC; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 12:42:04 -0700 Message-ID: <003c01bf434f$076fad60$0101a8c0@f1> From: "Heather" To: References: Subject: Re: H-COST: costume business Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 12:42:07 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Heather" > I must highly recommend Margo Anderson's site with a great page on beginning > a costuming business: Thanks. Margo's site was informative. I was just curious about the business side of costuming. I work in the computer industry where usually an estimate is given up front but customers are actually charged hourly. Then, again, on my current project, we were given a budget and once the money runs out, we're done. (I can see it now. "Here's you're costume. Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't have the budget to finish that last pant leg, but here's the leg I did finish. You'll just have to stand sideways...") _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 10 13:41:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17647 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 13:41:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA05913; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 13:00:42 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA03553 for h-costume-nopost; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 13:00:18 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from c008.sfo.cp.net (c008-h010.c008.sfo.cp.net [209.228.14.209]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA03545 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 13:00:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (cpmta 28198 invoked from network); 10 Dec 1999 12:00:15 -0800 Date: 10 Dec 1999 12:00:15 -0800 Message-ID: <19991210200015.28197.cpmta@c008.sfo.cp.net> X-Sent: 10 Dec 1999 20:00:15 GMT Received: from [207.102.246.97] by mail.canada.com with HTTP; 10 Dec 1999 12:00:15 PST Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com From: S Nielsen X-Mailer: Web Mail 3.3 Subject: Re: H-COST: costume business Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: S Nielsen On Fri, 10 December 1999, "Heather" wrote: > > I was just curious about the business side of costuming. I work in the > computer industry where usually an estimate is given up front but customers > are actually charged hourly. Then, again, on my current project, we were > given a budget and once the money runs out, we're done. (I can see it now. > "Here's you're costume. Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't have the budget to finish > that last pant leg, but here's the leg I did finish. You'll just have to > stand sideways...") > If *I* were to make costumes for others (not something I've charged for, but I have tossed around the idea), this is how I would do it: Have a standard hourly rate: say $25/hour (for illustration only) Calculate how long you reasonably expect the piece to take you, rounding up rather than down. Quote the price based on hourly*rate. (ie if a Tunic takes 3 hours, quote $75 as your labour price). If you are realizing that the project is taking more of your time than expected (due to requests of the customer, if you screw up and make a mistake and have to spend hours picking it apart, you can't charge for that), it is your responsibility to inform the customer as soon as possible. Provide alternatives: ie "I can do that funky trim that you wanted for an additional $25, or you can take it without the trim for the original price"). I would imagine after a couple times through, you can price the project fairly accurately without any later revisions. I would price material separately from labor -- silk costs more than cotton but takes the same amount of labor. For the few projects I have done with aquaintances, I will either charge for fabric (at a slight markup from the fabric store), or have them supply their own fabric (subject to my approval -- because I want to ensure that the fabric choice is appropriate to the garment). Just my two pence, Sheri > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME __________________________________________________________ Get your FREE personalized e-mail at http://www.canada.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 10 13:51:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17661 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 13:51:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA07076; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 13:10:33 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA06540 for h-costume-nopost; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 13:10:29 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.airmail.net (mail.airmail.net [206.66.12.40]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA06530 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 13:10:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from mamabear from [207.13.31.71] by mail.airmail.net (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.16 #30.421) with smtp for sender: id ; Fri, 10 Dec 99 14:10:27 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <008c01bf434a$806aff80$0200a8c0@mamabear.stormypetrel.com> From: "Genevieve de Courtanvaux" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Sumptuary Law violations-point to resource? Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 14:09:44 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Genevieve de Courtanvaux" I have a great book on criminal justice called Criminal Justice Through the Ages. It is put out by the Criminalmuseum in Rothenburg, Germany. It has a wooden ruff that was used to punish women who violate clothing regulations (pg 197). Plus it discusses it in some detail according to the index. (Trying to get out of town at this point so can be more detailed on Sunday when I get back if that is ok). Carol Ross -----Original Message----- From: Knauf, Saragrace T(Z02001) To: 'h-costume@indra.com' Date: Friday, December 10, 1999 10:21 AM Subject: H-COST: Sumptuary Law violations-point to resource? > >-Poster: "Knauf, Saragrace T(Z02001)" > >Can anyone point me to a resource that discusses in fair detail how >violations of sumptuary laws were dealt with? I have just picked up bits >and pieces that while the laws were in place they were basically ignored. >Any help would be appreciated. > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 10 13:52:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17665 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 13:52:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06858; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 13:09:26 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA06197 for h-costume-nopost; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 13:09:13 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06182 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 13:09:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24013 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 12:09:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-234.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.234]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA13507 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 12:09:07 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <005f01bf434c$dee9c120$aaaffea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: References: <7F402D0574C3D011ACF000A0C92B23D3025E113E@nt13pv.apsc.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: Sumptuary Law violations-point to resource? Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 12:26:40 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" > > -Poster: "Knauf, Saragrace T(Z02001)" > > Can anyone point me to a resource that discusses in fair detail how > violations of sumptuary laws were dealt with? I have just picked up bits > and pieces that while the laws were in place they were basically ignored. > Any help would be appreciated. There is a site on line with the sumptuary laws listed in detail. I have a print out here, put away. Maybe the site has some details on punishments also, that I didn't see. Have you already seen the list? I'll pull it out to get the address for the site if you need it. Let me know. The othere idea I have for you, is putting the question to the TudorTalk mail list. I am on the list and can forward your question or point you toward the list instead. Again, let me know what you want to do, since it is unknown to me what you have already found or searched through. Michelle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 10 14:05:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17694 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 14:05:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA08416; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 13:24:17 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA10051 for h-costume-nopost; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 13:24:04 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from redwood.co.sacramento.ca.us ([192.147.67.161]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10038 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 13:24:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from hhsmail.dhhs.co.sacramento.ca.us (10.5.11.246 [10.5.11.246]) by redwood.co.sacramento.ca.us with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id YQDFHZ31; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 12:21:57 -0800 Received: by hhsmail.dhhs.co.sacramento.ca.us with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 12:25:20 -0800 Message-ID: <1D0F5BB98E98D311B17E0008C75D0B3A03EC2E@hhsmail.dhhs.co.sacramento.ca.us> From: "Bergdahl, Stephen" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: Re: H-COST: costume business Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 12:25:20 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Bergdahl, Stephen" Just to add another log to this fire. Another thing you have to add in when figuring out the price is what I call the "Boredom Factor". The first time I make a costume I have a great time and enjoy the work. Twenty of the same thing, and it takes a little more to get my fingers moving. Making ready to wear, is one thing. I can turn out a Ren faire shirt without even being fully wake. But a corset or a doublet takes a good number of brain cells, because each one is pretty much the same, but has different fitting problems. But come a month before North Faire I don't want to make one more doublet, even if its for me. When Star Trek II came out I made the tailored uniform for a friend. It's an tricky outfit, and looks terrible if you don't get the tailoring just right. But I was the first one and I figured it would be good practice before I started on mine. I charged her $125 plus cost of fabric. It looked great and she loved it. And so did everyone else. Luckily I had told her that she was getting a friend price, so when I got about 15 orders for the same thing they didn't think they were getting it for $125. Of the people that called I ended up making 11 costumes, and never did make one for myself. I ended up adding about $50 dollars to the price every couple of costumes. Except for the one that cost the gentlemen $1500, (never order a week before the wedding.) The long and the short of this is charge what it takes for you to get the job done and better to figure on the high end rather that on the low. -Poster: "Heather" I was just curious about the business side of costuming. I work in the computer industry where usually an estimate is given up front but customers are actually charged hourly. Then, again, on my current project, we were given a budget and once the money runs out, we're done. (I can see it now. "Here's you're costume. Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't have the budget to finish that last pant leg, but here's the leg I did finish. You'll just have to stand sideways...") _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 10 14:05:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17698 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 14:05:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA08731; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 13:25:25 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA10454 for h-costume-nopost; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 13:25:15 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10441 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 13:25:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991210202511.EUDC17996.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 12:25:11 -0800 Message-ID: <385161B7.5DE5F955@home.com> Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 14:25:27 -0600 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: costume business References: <003c01bf434f$076fad60$0101a8c0@f1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kat & Kent Personally, and I don't do a tremendous amount for others than my kith & kin, I ask the customer to meet me at the fabric store... they pay for all materials. I give them a time estimate & charge $25/hour. I call if the estimate runs over 10% of total cost for approval. I point out that hand sewing costs more labor because it takes me 7 hours to hand sew a simple t-tunic dress as opposed to machine sewing it completely which takes about 1-2. Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 10 14:32:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17708 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 14:32:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12437; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 13:51:00 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA17182 for h-costume-nopost; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 13:50:47 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from gigi.excite.com ([199.172.152.110]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17169 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 13:50:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from patti.excite.com ([199.172.148.159]) by fortune.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP id <19991210204721.IEUE22679.fortune.excite.com@patti.excite.com> for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 12:47:21 -0800 Message-ID: <6451453.944858841946.JavaMail.imail@patti.excite.com> Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 12:47:21 -0800 (PST) From: StitchWitch To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Clothing Mistakes (was Re: H-COST: Sumptuary Law violations-point to resource?) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 144.163.130.106 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: StitchWitch > I have a great book on criminal justice called Criminal Justice Through the > Ages. It is put out by the Criminalmuseum in Rothenburg, Germany. It has a > wooden ruff that was used to punish women who violate clothing regulations > (pg 197). Considering the contortions that women have gone through (and men, too) to be fashionable, I'm surprised the wooden ruff didn't take off as a fashion statement. (Or maybe it did, not my period! ;) A question for y'all: What is your least favorite fashion frivolity? Mine is the c.1830's American women's sleeves. They look to me like linebackers in lace! And it made thier heads, to my eye, look way too tiny. Perhaps some women can carry this look, but I sure can't! Kate ---- StitchWitch Unseen in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove. - P.G. Wodehouse, 1930 _______________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 10 14:40:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17714 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 14:40:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA13369; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 13:59:33 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA19246 for h-costume-nopost; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 13:58:53 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from redwood.co.sacramento.ca.us ([192.147.67.161]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA19213 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 13:58:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from hhsmail.dhhs.co.sacramento.ca.us (10.5.11.246 [10.5.11.246]) by redwood.co.sacramento.ca.us with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id YQDFHZ47; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 12:56:47 -0800 Received: by hhsmail.dhhs.co.sacramento.ca.us with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 13:00:10 -0800 Message-ID: <1D0F5BB98E98D311B17E0008C75D0B3A03EC2F@hhsmail.dhhs.co.sacramento.ca.us> From: "Bergdahl, Stephen" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: Clothing Mistakes (was Re: H-COST: Sumptuary Law violations-p oint to resource?) Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 13:00:09 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Bergdahl, Stephen" -Poster: StitchWitch Considering the contortions that women have gone through (and men, too) to be fashionable, I'm surprised the wooden ruff didn't take off as a fashion statement. (Or maybe it did, not my period! ;) A question for y'all: What is your least favorite fashion frivolity? Mine is the c.1830's American women's sleeves. They look to me like linebackers in lace! And it made thier heads, to my eye, look way too tiny. Perhaps some women can carry this look, but I sure can't! Kate There are a few periods that are no fun for the mem. 1750 comes formost to my mind. Everything fitted like a second skin. Waistcoat, and coat pulling your shoulders together. And the breeches, you can look good or you can sit BUT not both. The last time I tried that period I never got past the muslin stage. I looked like I was 10 months gone. Stephen Bergdahl - (Give me a well tailored frock coat any day.) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 10 14:40:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17718 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 14:40:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA13371; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 13:59:33 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA19333 for h-costume-nopost; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 13:59:13 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA19319 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 13:59:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA10847 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 12:59:39 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <385169EF.6B69A697@serv.net> Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 13:00:31 -0800 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: Clothing Mistakes References: <6451453.944858841946.JavaMail.imail@patti.excite.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > A question for y'all: What is your least favorite fashion frivolity? The wheel farthingale is, to me, the most ridiculous piece. *Especially* when sitting down. I'm not crazy about those waspish 19th century waists either. Yikes! Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of AnTir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 10 14:42:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17730 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 14:42:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA13720; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 14:01:23 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA19884 for h-costume-nopost; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 14:01:19 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from scl-ims.phoenix.com (scl-ims.phoenix.com [134.122.1.73]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19865 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 14:01:16 -0700 (MST) Received: by scl-ims.phoenix.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 13:00:57 -0800 Message-ID: <1F176F2C2977D311B3300090270E63784D2497@scl-exch.phoenix.com> From: Cynthia Barnes To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Sewing Hells (was: costume business) Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 13:01:12 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cynthia Barnes Question. I'm very much a novice, but I've still had a couple of people ask if I could make them something. I tell them no but I'd be very glad to help them if they wanted to make a day of it. No one has ever taken me up on it. Has anyone else tried this? >I've tried this with friends, too. None of my friends took me up on the offer, either. Funny, that! Yes, I have. I usually say that I will show them how and that they will do all the work. Sewing Hells have happened at my house on many occasions. The most I've done at once is a 1902 wedding (3 maids & a bride) simultaneously helping 9 women into 1848-52 ball gowns for Stanford Vintage Dance Ensemble. That was a busy 7 months. I will only barter my costume services for someone else svcs. Not money. I figure an hour for something I'm good at vs. an hour for something you're good at is fair. I've had a few say they'd rather pay. I'm not willing to go pro & take a pay cut. Instead, I jokingly offer that they can pay my regular silicon valley S/W engineer hourly rate. Somehow, they just laugh. Historically & today, people just aren't willing to pay seamstresses & tailors. Maybe if I called myself a Fabric Engineer? The biggest concern is going to be having enough equipment & space for all available. I also try to find a 2:1 ratio of novice to experienced costumers. Potluck food makes it a party. Sometimes, we even start the day at a new fabric or notions store someone's discovered then off to the slave pits, --cin Cynthia Barnes 408.570.1023 Cynthia_Barnes@phoenix.com Phoenix Technologies 411 E. Plumeria Dr. San Jose CA 95134 "I think animal testing is a terrible idea; they get all nervous and give the wrong answers." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 10 15:05:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA17751 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 15:05:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA16982; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 14:24:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA25943 for h-costume-nopost; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 14:23:42 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.airmail.net (mail.airmail.net [206.66.12.40]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA25899 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 14:23:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from mamabear from [207.13.31.71] by mail.airmail.net (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.16 #30.421) with smtp for sender: id ; Fri, 10 Dec 99 15:23:35 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <00b101bf4354$b7bd17c0$0200a8c0@mamabear.stormypetrel.com> From: "Genevieve de Courtanvaux" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Sumptuary Law violations-point to resource? - Long!!! Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 15:22:52 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Genevieve de Courtanvaux" Actually, I decided to take the time to reply :) First a little background.....This book is from the Kriminalmuseum in Rothenburg, Germany were they had many pieces of torture on display. The book is from there and the info on it is... "Criminal Justice Through the Ages", published by Mittelalterliches Kriminalmuseum. I can't seem to find an isb number for it. I have the english edition. This book primarly focuses on Germany laws and their punishments so what I quote may not be true for all of Europe. What I am going to do is give the page numbers then the context then the actual quote. 22 through 24 - on Imperial police codes of 16th Century - "The rules of law and order and the police tried to control blasphemy, excessive drinking, exaggerated dressiness, and to curb luxury. For example, they prohibited the wearing of velvet, damak, satin, and silk, coats by merchants and traders in the town, and laid restraints on superflous bridle equipment for horses and worldly clothing for the clergy." 85 - on Imperial law on jews - "It was not until the imperial public peace law of 1103 that the public peace was also extended to the Jews; this was coupled, however, with the loss of the right to bear arms and complusion to wear specific clothing (conical hat)." 149 through 150 - Section on wearing degrading Garments - "The symbolic significance of clothing is as old as clothing itself. It demonstrates the rank and status of the wearer. So what was more obvious than to make persons who placed themselve beyond the pale of the community by thier actions, their peculiar origin or thier vocation recognizable to all special clothing. The appearace, and in the broadest sense the dress, of a person includes the hair. The hair-style. open or tied, long or short, permitted conclusions to be drawn with regard to a person's legal status. Only the freeman wore long hair, while the bondsman's was cut short. Consequently, cutting off the hair of the head was a degrading punishment from time immemorial. Men and women who had committed sexual offences had their hair cut off, a degrading punishment still inflicted in our times by moblaw. Shortening of a woman's dress was a customary degrading punishment. The mothers of illegimate children and female adulterers had a broad strip cut off the bottom of thier dress in public. Clothing served primarily as a protection from inclement weather and the shortening of the dress meant exposure, deprival of protection and disgrace. Like the reduction or shortening of clothing, compulsion to wear certain garments was likewise a degrading punishment or at least the mark of those considered dishonest. Insolvent debtors were therefor required to wear a yellow hat and imcompetent farmers a white hat (Schaumburg Lippe, 18th Century). The sharp distinction between Christians and Jews demanded the Catholic chruch resulted in Jews having to wear a pointed hat and a yellow patch on their breast as identification. To enable better supervision of prostitution, which though tolerated was viewed with suspicion by the authoriteis, prostitutes were ordered to wear conspicuous clothig characteristic of thier calling. Excutioners, too, were required to wear different clothing than the normal citizen. The clothing regualtions issued in the 14th and 15th century, above all in the cities, made breaches of them practically inevitable. Contraventions of the clothing regulations were punished mainly by fines, but in some cities the tipstaffs had orders to remove on the open street too opulent clothing not in keeping with a person's rank." 275 - on women of ill repute - "The courteasans, wenches or ladies of easy virtue were compelled to wear conspicuous clothing characteristic of their calling. In Rothenburg, a red-and-white kerchief, in Augusburg merely a strip of green material two fingers wide on their veil, and in Leipzip short yellow mantles on which blue cords were sewn." 290 through 296 - I consider this too long to retype out so will have to read it and summerize for you. I will get back to this in a bit (maybe Sunday) Carol Ross _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 10 15:37:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA17776 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 15:37:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA21097; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 14:56:44 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA05134 for h-costume-nopost; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 14:56:29 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.8]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA05125 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 14:56:27 -0700 (MST) From: Panmela@aol.com Received: from Panmela@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.8bddbcc8 (4585) for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 16:55:52 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.8bddbcc8.2582d0e8@aol.com> Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 16:55:52 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: Sumptuary Law violations-point to resource? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 49 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Panmela@aol.com Regarding sumptuary laws, what country? What years? It varied depending on when and where you were. Pamela D. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 10 16:08:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA17810 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 16:08:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25232; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 15:27:06 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA13589 for h-costume-nopost; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 15:26:36 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA13558 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 15:26:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p38.directcon.net [206.170.184.87]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA15046 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 14:26:20 -0800 Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 14:26:20 -0800 Message-Id: <199912102226.OAA15046@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: costume business Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson At 02:25 PM 12/10/1999 -0600, you wrote: > >-Poster: Kat & Kent > >Personally, and I don't do a tremendous amount for others than my kith & >kin, I ask the customer to meet me at the fabric store... they pay for >all materials. I will never do this again, not since the time I took a client along to select the lambskins for a leather swashbuckler shirt and he insisted on closely inspecting every single one of a 150 skin bundle. "I want this one for the left cuff..this is the back yoke...this one, no, this one, for the left side front panel...." It did turn out stunning, though. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 10 16:19:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA17823 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 16:19:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA26946; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 15:38:56 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA17262 for h-costume-nopost; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 15:38:50 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from one.net.au (lightblue.one.net.au [203.101.17.165]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA17252 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 15:38:47 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 15618 invoked from network); 10 Dec 1999 22:38:12 -0000 Received: from async166-bri-isp-4.nas.one.net.au (HELO pbncomputer) (203.101.60.167) by lightblue.one.net.au with SMTP; 10 Dec 1999 22:38:12 -0000 From: "Megan McConnell" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Highland Dress (again) Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 08:40:30 +1100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Megan McConnell" Mara Racinet was published in the 1800's - and is very romantical! I own it as it is a very nice looking book, but would not dream of using it as a source. Think: typical Victorian ideals of history and you have it. Have a terrific Day Madilayn Visit my website: http://hercountry.com/gentlearts/ ICQ # 57164109 Yahoo Messageing: madilayn > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 10 16:24:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA17833 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 16:24:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA27060; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 15:39:12 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA17327 for h-costume-nopost; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 15:39:08 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bodyguard.apsc.com (bodyguard.apsc.com [137.91.114.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA17317 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 15:39:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailhub.apsc.com (mailhub.apsc.commailhub.apsc.com [137.91.1.30]) by apsc.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA01831 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 15:54:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from nt170.apsc.com (nt170.apsc.com [137.91.1.61]) by mailhub.apsc.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA23062 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 15:39:00 -0700 (MST) Received: by nt170.apsc.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 15:38:57 -0700 Message-ID: <7F402D0574C3D011ACF000A0C92B23D3025E1141@nt13pv.apsc.com> From: "Knauf, Saragrace T(Z02001)" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Sumptuary Law violations-more specific Q Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 15:38:48 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Knauf, Saragrace T(Z02001)" First off, thank you all for reading and responding to my initial question. The time period is 1600, the area is England. The person is a very, very wealthy visiting merchant from Germany. How would the sumptuary laws been applied? I find it very interesting. Not that everything human beings do makes sense, but it was my understanding that some nobles, even kings had to borrow money from banks run by the wealthy merchant class. So, how did they get off restricting what those people wore? Anyone know when sumptuary laws 'went out of fashion'? Does anyone recall coming across examples where the laws were ignored? I wish I could remember the source, but I remember reading about one non-noble woman who was asked or told that she couldn't wear her best dress to a wedding of a princess because her clothes were more sumptuous than the nobles. So, the point being that she may have complied on this occasion but not usually. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 10 17:08:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA17907 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 17:08:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02631; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 16:28:03 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA00221 for h-costume-nopost; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 16:27:45 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.airmail.net (mail.airmail.net [206.66.12.40]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA00210 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 16:27:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from mamabear from [207.13.31.71] by mail.airmail.net (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.16 #30.421) with smtp for sender: id ; Fri, 10 Dec 99 17:27:43 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <00d001bf4366$0e1d7540$0200a8c0@mamabear.stormypetrel.com> From: "Genevieve de Courtanvaux" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Sumptuary Law violations-more specific Q Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 17:26:57 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Genevieve de Courtanvaux" I went and looked through all of my books on criminal justice and torture and all I could find was what I posted in my last post (the really long one). I imagine that you would have to obey the English laws but I am not certain. Carol Ross > >The time period is 1600, the area is England. The person is a very, very >wealthy visiting merchant from Germany. How would the sumptuary laws been >applied? > >I find it very interesting. Not that everything human beings do makes >sense, but it was my understanding that some nobles, even kings had to >borrow money from banks run by the wealthy merchant class. So, how did they >get off restricting what those people wore? > >Anyone know when sumptuary laws 'went out of fashion'? > >Does anyone recall coming across examples where the laws were ignored? I >wish I could remember the source, but I remember reading about one non-noble >woman who was asked or told that she couldn't wear her best dress to a >wedding of a princess because her clothes were more sumptuous than the >nobles. So, the point being that she may have complied on this occasion but >not usually. > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 10 17:35:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA17925 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 17:35:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA05771; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 16:55:38 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA07559 for h-costume-nopost; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 16:55:28 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA07549 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 16:55:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from lindo (p1.a7.du.radix.net [207.192.132.1]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA05467 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 18:55:24 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Message-Id: Message-Id: X-Sender: lindo@saltmine.radix.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 18:53:31 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: lindo@Radix.Net Subject: Re: H-COST: Highland Dress (again) In-Reply-To: <384FDBCD.9B0FFB17@serv.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: lindo@radix.net At 08:41 AM 12/9/99 -0800, you wrote: > >-Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > >> I recently went to the following web site, which has an unfortunate >> attempt at what the seamstress calls a Highland Gown: > >Just a thought. How do you know that she isn't on this list? Personally, I >would be very careful before posting a comment like this to a public forum. >We can't educate if someone's feelings are terribly hurt. > >FWIW, >Cynthia Ok, you're right. I don't know she isn't on this list, or at least lurking. If the seamstress is on the list, I apologize for my catty remarks and chalk it up to stir-craziness on my part (am just dying to get out of the house after my stitches heal sufficiently). Plus crankiness from having to deal with too many stupid-tourist questions when I _am_ out trying to do an accurate period impression and educate people (Is that a real fire? Is that knife sharp? Did they really get dyes that color (referring to my sky-blue indigo dyed wool, done on-site and hanging up to dry)? They didn't have guns like that back then! You can't fight a war with guns like that!). It's sometimes rather like going to a science-fiction convention, with people wandering around in bunny-fur tops and ragged-edged leather skirts, with fake Celtic tattoos on their arms/bellies... Yes, I understand that people like to have fun. She just hit a nerve. I'm sorry. Mara Kevin + Mara Riley Home Page http://www.radix.net/~lindo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 10 17:36:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA17929 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 17:35:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA05774; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 16:55:39 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA07594 for h-costume-nopost; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 16:55:36 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA07586 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 16:55:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from lindo (p1.a7.du.radix.net [207.192.132.1]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA05489 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 18:55:33 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: X-Sender: lindo@saltmine.radix.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 18:46:25 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: lindo@Radix.Net Subject: Re: H-COST: Tartan (was Pink) In-Reply-To: <385018D2.9737722E@home.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: lindo@radix.net At 03:02 PM 12/9/99 -0600, you wrote: >You can't see it as well in the photo which is very muted but my dh has >a tie of the Ancient Bruce and it's NEON... and every other tartan I've >seen noted as Ancient Bruce is JUST as neon. > >Kat That wasn't my point. Is Ancient Bruce really an ancient tartan? If so, what is it based on, since there are no 'clan tartans' going back much further than the beginning of the Victorian era? Yes, you can get bright colors using natural dyes. Not neon-bright, but pretty bright. And I guess what I call 'neon' are the shades that you see on surfer or skateboarder attire, not just a bright red or yellow. I've gotten fairly bright oranges and yellows using natural dyes. I'm not disputing that you can; the question is, how were those dyes used? I've seen tartans that were both too bright, and those that were (IMNSHO) too dark. Bright reds and bright yellows were certainly obtainable in our period. I'm disputing the argument that Bruce is in any way ancient. In fact, my copy of 'Tartans: Their Art and History' says that Bruce is from Vestarium Scoticum, a famous early Victorian forgery which was purported to be of much older origin but which was in fact published in 1842. Their picture of 'Bruce' does indeed show a tartan that is predominantly orange/red and yellow, and the colors certainly could have been acheived using natural dyes. BUT -- does that mean that a patten invented by Victorians is in any way like the patterns woven in earlier centuries? For that, you have to look at the portraits done in those earlier centuries, and not assume that a pattern invented later is valid. (In fact, it's not very different from one worn in a portrait of Bonnie Prince Charlie by John Pettie, so an argument could be made for its use. But not as the 'Bruce tartan', since there wouldn't have been any such thing.) For that matter, the colors in Buchanan are probably acheivable using natural dyes, and that's a very bright tartan. But the sett (pattern) simply isn't accurate for my period (mid 1700s), as far as I can tell. Fine for Victorian and later, of course! Just don't use it for earlier periods -- it's like taking a modern chinese brocade and using it for a Tudor gown. You might sometimes find something that would work, but it would take a lot of careful research and luck! Cheers, Mara Kevin + Mara Riley Home Page http://www.radix.net/~lindo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 10 17:57:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA17946 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 17:57:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA07824; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 17:17:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA12171 for h-costume-nopost; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 17:16:52 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ntserver1.mainsaver.com ([206.17.202.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA12165 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 17:16:50 -0700 (MST) Received: by HP-LH3 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 16:07:57 -0800 Message-ID: <5B38B8D7EED8D211997F00A0C9E57FB91DB6C4@HP-LH3> From: MAGGIE SECARA To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Sumptuary Law violations-more specific Q Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 16:07:51 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MAGGIE SECARA I'm pretty sure that visiting merchants, like diplomats, are exempt from local sumptuary laws. One of the reason for the laws is to keep people from getting above themselves, sure, but also to keep them from spending all their money on clothes. The Queen doesn't care how foreigners beggar themselves on fine dress. It's always wise not to outdress the Queen, sure, but in ordinary commerce, it shouldn't be a problem. A Swedish princess who tries will be sorry, I'm sure, but not fined or put in the stocks or whatever. However... If the merchant takes up permanent residence in London, it might also be wise to go along with the prevailing restraint, to fit in and avoid inciting envy. Foreigners in England had anough to worry about! So it depends on the circumstances in which the character finds himself. My personal opinon about sumptuary in Tudor/Elizabethan England is that it's enforced by the neighbors. The Watch does not kick down your door on their own to see if you have things above your station. If you appear at a dance in the wrong sort of fur, you don't immediately get arrested. No, someone complains to the town Council, or one Alderman's wife complains to her husband about another Alderman's wife, and the both Aldermen sigh "Women!" and decide what's to be done about it. If Alderman B can't get his wife to take the fur trim off her new hat, or gets huffy about it himself, the Council may have to determine a fine. I haven't run into a lot of evidence of people being run in to court on a charge of illegal use of gilt. But I could be wrong. ;) Just my tuppence ha'penny, as always. > MaggiRos > http://ren.dm.net > > > Mary Countess of Southampton (RPF ret.) > Clara Munter, the Sojer's Friend (Corona, CA) > Mairghread-Ros FitzGarrett of Desmond (O.L. Caid) > and sometimes even > Maggie Pierce Secara > > > > > ---------- > From: Genevieve de Courtanvaux[SMTP:gdc@airmail.net] > Reply To: h-costume@indra.com > Sent: Friday, December 10, 1999 3:26 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: Sumptuary Law violations-more specific Q > > > -Poster: "Genevieve de Courtanvaux" > > I went and looked through all of my books on criminal justice and torture > and all I could find was what I posted in my last post (the really long > one). I imagine that you would have to obey the English laws but I am not > certain. > Carol Ross > > > > >The time period is 1600, the area is England. The person is a very, very > >wealthy visiting merchant from Germany. How would the sumptuary laws > been > >applied? > > > >I find it very interesting. Not that everything human beings do makes > >sense, but it was my understanding that some nobles, even kings had to > >borrow money from banks run by the wealthy merchant class. So, how did > they > >get off restricting what those people wore? > > > >Anyone know when sumptuary laws 'went out of fashion'? > > > >Does anyone recall coming across examples where the laws were ignored? I > >wish I could remember the source, but I remember reading about one > non-noble > >woman who was asked or told that she couldn't wear her best dress to a > >wedding of a princess because her clothes were more sumptuous than the > >nobles. So, the point being that she may have complied on this occasion > but > >not usually. > > _________________________________________________________________ > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 10 18:06:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA17957 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 18:06:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA09003; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 17:25:49 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA13961 for h-costume-nopost; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 17:25:45 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA13954 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 17:25:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA19107 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 16:26:04 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <38519A51.FF90E4B6@serv.net> Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 16:26:57 -0800 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Sumptuary Law violations-more specific Q References: <5B38B8D7EED8D211997F00A0C9E57FB91DB6C4@HP-LH3> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > A Swedish princess who > tries will be sorry, I'm sure, but not fined or put in the stocks or > whatever. However... FWIW, I doubt a Princess needs to worry about sumptuary laws, local or foreign. I might be mistaken, I often am, but weren't sumptuary laws for the nobility on down, not for royalty? That's my tuppence, :) Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of AnTir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 10 18:18:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA17970 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 18:18:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA10083; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 17:37:32 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA15966 for h-costume-nopost; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 17:37:09 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ntserver1.mainsaver.com ([206.17.202.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA15961 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 17:37:07 -0700 (MST) Received: by HP-LH3 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 16:28:18 -0800 Message-ID: <5B38B8D7EED8D211997F00A0C9E57FB91DB6C7@HP-LH3> From: MAGGIE SECARA To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Sumptuary Law violations-more specific Q Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 16:28:12 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MAGGIE SECARA That's what I meant. Someone cited a princess being advised not to wear something because it would outshine the Queen's gown. That's advice, not law. The "punishment" is the Queen's temper. The laws I've seen are based on rank and income, and generally anyone above the degree of a baroness (or worth more than 100 pounds a year) can wear anything she likes. I haven't made a lengthy study of this tho. Everyone I've ever played has either been a Countess or of such meager standing that the question is unlikely to come up. :) MaggiRos > ---------- > From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris[SMTP:keltia@serv.net] > Reply To: h-costume@indra.com > Sent: Friday, December 10, 1999 4:26 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: Sumptuary Law violations-more specific Q > > > -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > > > A Swedish princess who > > tries will be sorry, I'm sure, but not fined or put in the stocks or > > whatever. However... > > FWIW, I doubt a Princess needs to worry about sumptuary laws, local or > foreign. > I might be mistaken, I often am, but weren't sumptuary laws for the > nobility on > down, not for royalty? > > That's my tuppence, :) > Cynthia > > -- > Cynthia Long > Merouda the True of Beaumaris > Barony of Madrone > Kingdom of AnTir > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 10 18:19:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA17974 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 18:19:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA10278; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 17:39:13 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA16339 for h-costume-nopost; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 17:39:10 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from postal.grin.net (root@postal.grin.net [209.104.220.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA16333 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 17:39:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from [208.225.99.236] (ppp236.creative.net [208.225.99.236]) by postal.grin.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA16535 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 16:49:49 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: lilinah@mail.grin.net Message-Id: Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 16:39:14 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lilinah biti-Anat Subject: H-COST: Cocoon Coat, etc. from Folkwear... Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lilinah biti-Anat Since this has come up on this list before... I just received the following e-mail from Lark Books, current publishers of Folkwear Patterns: --------------------- * New Pattern from FOLKWEAR - The Paris Promenade Dress * One of our brand new patterns has arrived: #261 The PARIS PROMENADE DRESS. This easy-to-sew, easy-to-wear afternoon dress from about 1920 flatters any figure. Pullover dress is attached to bib-shaped overdress, then shaped to the body at the waist by a self-fabric sash or purchased decorative cord. Vintage-style drawstring handbag completes the look. Pattern includes instructions for making decorative tassels to attach at ends of dress sleeves and bottom of handbag. Misses Extra Small to Extra Large. $16.95 Check it out at: http://www.larkbooks.com/home.nav/dynamic/search/results/?sectdir=fw&c at=romantic&prod=32261&lsid=0005b334f66088e3c655fe6224a43a88 That's not all! More new patterns will be arriving soon: #260 SUNBURST COCOON COAT and #208 KINSALE CLOAK FOR YOUNG MAIDENS should be available by January 2000. Look through the entire collection of Folkwear Patterns to your heart's content at: http://www.larkbooks.com/home.nav/fw/ OR request a free Folkwear catalog by e-mailing folkwear@larkbooks.com or calling 1-800-284 3388. --------------------- I'm not selling anything, just letting interested folks know... BTW, pattern 261 is not a "flapper"dress"... Lilinah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 10 18:20:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA17980 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 18:20:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA10357; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 17:40:01 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA16478 for h-costume-nopost; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 17:39:58 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA16469 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 17:39:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991211003956.IXDU17996.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 16:39:56 -0800 Message-ID: <38519D69.C8B61C5C@home.com> Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 18:40:10 -0600 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Tartan (was Pink) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kat & Kent Not meaning to flame anyone but quite frankly I'm sure that there were ancestors who wore any type of flaming color that was capable of being made with the dyes available to them. Everyone has a tendency to point to earlier generations and say things like "oh but people *conformed* back in 'x'". I don't believe it. Over and over I hear folx saying that this or that just *wasn't* done in thus & so a period. But without a time machine how do we know? Really? If it's not specifically mentioned in writing by someone who we can trust (and can we really 'trust' anyone to be 100% accurate?) how do we know that there weren't people doing/wearing 'x'? Non-conformists did not spring out of the ether in this generation... or the last one... or the one before that. So here's my solution... if you feel that it is being more accurate by following *only* what is specifically written down in a document then go for it. If you feel it's accurate to go by what's written down & paintings etc... go for it. If you feel it's accurate to use materials and methods available for the period... go for it. Personally, I have enough stress in my life without worrying about it... and I've read enough history to not worry about it. Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 10 18:29:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA18020 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 18:29:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA11384; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 17:49:09 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA18993 for h-costume-nopost; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 17:49:00 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA18972 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 17:48:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991211004856.JAPQ17996.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 16:48:56 -0800 Message-ID: <38519F86.42D5BA38@home.com> Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 18:49:10 -0600 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: costume business References: <199912102226.OAA15046@apollo.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kat & Kent Margo Anderson wrote: > > I will never do this again, not since the time I took a client along > to select the lambskins for a leather swashbuckler shirt and he > insisted on closely inspecting every single one of a 150 skin bundle. > "I want this one for the left cuff..this is the back yoke...this one, > no, this one, for the left side front panel...." It did turn out > stunning, though. LOL! This is why I take separate cars!! Bless me! I'd have looked at him and said, "you need 'x' amount... I'll be at home waiting." Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 10 18:39:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA18038 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 18:39:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA12282; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 17:59:09 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA21515 for h-costume-nopost; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 17:58:43 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from one.net.au (lightblue.one.net.au [203.101.17.165]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA21507 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 17:58:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 28139 invoked from network); 11 Dec 1999 00:58:05 -0000 Received: from async226-bri-isp-4.nas.one.net.au (HELO pbncomputer) (203.101.60.227) by lightblue.one.net.au with SMTP; 11 Dec 1999 00:58:05 -0000 From: "Megan McConnell" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Sumptuary Law violations-point to resource? Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 11:00:23 +1100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <005f01bf434c$dee9c120$aaaffea9@gunsafes> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Megan McConnell" Mchelle Can you please post the site with the Sumptary Laws on it? (or sent it privately to me if you like) Have a terrific Day Megan Visit my website: http://hercountry.com/gentlearts/ ICQ # 57164109 Yahoo Messageing: madilayn Visit D'Realm of the Fairies: http://www.thesitefights.com/fairies Do you fight? http://www.thesitefighs.com > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 10 18:42:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA18047 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 18:42:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA12592; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 18:02:13 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA22101 for h-costume-nopost; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 18:02:06 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from one.net.au (lightblue.one.net.au [203.101.17.165]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA22092 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 18:02:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 29924 invoked from network); 11 Dec 1999 01:01:30 -0000 Received: from async226-bri-isp-4.nas.one.net.au (HELO pbncomputer) (203.101.60.227) by lightblue.one.net.au with SMTP; 11 Dec 1999 01:01:30 -0000 From: "Megan McConnell" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Re: Clothing Mistakes Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 11:03:48 +1100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <385169EF.6B69A697@serv.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Megan McConnell" I agree about the wheel farthingale, but my alltime hate is the current trend for Micro Mini skirts (as in Ally McBeal). You have to have perfect legs to wear them and look good, but they are just plain not business-like or professional for work wear (and yes - I know people who do wear them for work). I catch the bus with a lady who wears them soo short that when she sits down, she is not actually sitting on her skirt! The other big hate is tent dresses for larger sizes. I am a big lady and I can't stand that people assume that because one is not a model size, that one must wear a tent. I dress very well - and not in tents. Have a terrific Day Megan Visit my website: http://hercountry.com/gentlearts/ ICQ # 57164109 Yahoo Messageing: madilayn Visit D'Realm of the Fairies: http://www.thesitefights.com/fairies Do you fight? http://www.thesitefighs.com > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 10 18:52:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA18066 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 18:52:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA13658; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 18:12:06 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA23599 for h-costume-nopost; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 18:11:58 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from scl-ims.phoenix.com (scl-ims.phoenix.com [134.122.1.73]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA23582 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 18:11:55 -0700 (MST) Received: by scl-ims.phoenix.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 17:11:36 -0800 Message-ID: <1F176F2C2977D311B3300090270E63784D255B@scl-exch.phoenix.com> From: Cynthia Barnes To: "H-Costume (E-mail)" Subject: H-COST: Albert Racinet Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 17:11:46 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cynthia Barnes >Racinet was published in the 1800's - and is very romantical! I own it as >it is a very nice looking book, but would not dream of using it as a source. >Think: typical Victorian ideals of history and you have it. Yes, "romantic" as in flights of fancy. I have both the complete Racinet (intro by Dr. Aileen Ribero) and the abridged Dover version. Dr. Ribero's comments on Racinet's somewhat questionable scholarship, the "creative" choice of colors in the original publication and her notes on *his* source material are interesting, informative reading for the novice/intermediate costume historian. It's a top notch source for Victorian Fancy Dress. A few years ago, I saw 2 of the original 1880 set of 6 volumes. Hand colored plates. Brilliant condition. US$600 the pair. I walked away from it. Sometime I regret this. Sometimes I dont. --cin Cynthia Barnes 408.570.1023 Cynthia_Barnes@phoenix.com Phoenix Technologies 411 E. Plumeria Dr. San Jose CA 95134 "I think animal testing is a terrible idea; they get all nervous and give the wrong answers." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 10 20:08:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA18196 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 20:08:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA20462; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 19:27:22 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA04526 for h-costume-nopost; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 19:27:00 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo23.mx.aol.com (imo23.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.67]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04518 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 19:26:58 -0700 (MST) From: Gaelscot@aol.com Received: from Gaelscot@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.b6567a28 (4313) for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 21:26:16 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.b6567a28.25831048@aol.com> Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 21:26:16 EST Subject: H-COST: Re: ugly fashion frivolities To: h-costume-digest@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com The thing I can't stand is those Napoleon era men's collars that covered men's chins. I've seen a few in movies that made me think, "Oh -- so THAT was the idea." But I bet they were mostly hideous, like stretch pants so often are today. But to each his own -- I like those 1830s sleeves! Gail Finke _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 10 20:17:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA18209 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 20:17:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA21341; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 19:37:32 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA06033 for h-costume-nopost; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 19:37:29 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA06028 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 19:37:27 -0700 (MST) From: Fopdejour1@aol.com Received: from Fopdejour1@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.b05816b7 (3953) for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 21:36:53 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.b05816b7.258312c4@aol.com> Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 21:36:52 EST Subject: H-COST: Tudor sumptuary laws on line To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 45 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Fopdejour1@aol.com You can find them on Drea's site at http://www.dnaco.net/~aleed/corsets/general.html Charles _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Dec 10 20:42:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA18227 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 20:42:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA23293; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 20:02:26 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA09387 for h-costume-nopost; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 20:02:19 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.3]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA09375 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 20:02:17 -0700 (MST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.8be07e2f (7094) for ; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 22:01:40 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.8be07e2f.25831893@aol.com> Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 22:01:39 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: ugly fashion frivolities To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 44 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 12/10/1999 9:29:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, Gaelscot@aol.com writes: << The thing I can't stand is those Napoleon era men's collars that covered men's chins. >> You mean that cravat style where you fold the bias cut silk triangle [or folded square] over a leather or boned stock. It looks great if you fuss with it a lot. But I agree with you that if someone was not so fussy it might look awful! Of course the same is true of things like hoop skirts. The wrong one or worn incorrectly can be a disaster. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Dec 11 05:06:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA23959 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 05:06:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA21922; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 04:25:06 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA05516 for h-costume-nopost; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 04:22:49 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.bellatlantic.net (mail1.bellatlantic.net [199.45.32.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA05510 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 04:22:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from thibault.org (client-151-197-111-19.bellatlantic.net [151.197.111.19]) by mail1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA29859 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 06:26:17 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3852340B.32F21C21@thibault.org> Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 06:24:26 -0500 From: Cynthia Virtue Organization: Virtue Ventures http://www.virtue.to X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: ugly fashion frivolities References: <0.8be07e2f.25831893@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cynthia Virtue Peascod bellies on Elizabethan men's jackets. Time for the men to look as if they are pregnant, finally! -- "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet LXXXI "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia V. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Dec 11 05:21:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA23972 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 05:21:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA22823; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 04:41:48 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA06975 for h-costume-nopost; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 04:40:12 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA06970 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 04:40:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (dialup-209.244.215.248.Washington2.Level3.net [209.244.215.248]) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id DAA17212 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 03:40:09 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <003b01bf43ce$2e8bc8a0$f8d7f4d1@pavilion> From: "Andrea Gideon" To: References: <6451453.944858841946.JavaMail.imail@patti.excite.com> <385169EF.6B69A697@serv.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Clothing Mistakes Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 06:52:19 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Andrea Gideon" > > -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > > > A question for y'all: What is your least favorite fashion frivolity? > One vote for the huge wigs just prior to the French revolution. Another vote for tri-corn or bi-corn men's hats. Another vote for the bustle. Most women think their butts are too big already, why make it huge? Andrea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Dec 11 05:28:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA23976 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 05:28:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA23082; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 04:48:35 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA07487 for h-costume-nopost; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 04:46:50 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA07481 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 04:46:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (dialup-209.244.215.248.Washington2.Level3.net [209.244.215.248]) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id DAA20957 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 03:46:47 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <004e01bf43cf$1bffbf60$f8d7f4d1@pavilion> From: "Andrea Gideon" To: "H-Costume" Subject: H-COST: question regarding a picture Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 06:58:57 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004B_01BF43A5.32465C40" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Andrea Gideon" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004B_01BF43A5.32465C40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is for anyone who has a copy of "20,000 Years of Fashion" by = Boucher. The dress happens to be an Elizabethan era Italian dress, but = it doesn't have to be your focus. Just look at the picture and give me = your opinion. The picture is #466 (Laudonia de Medici by A. Bronzino)on = page 230. It appears that their is some sort of trim at the sleeves and = down the skirt. Normally I would have thought it was piping, but to me = it looks like the line is broken at regular intervals. Does this look = like beading to anyone else? Or what does it look like to you? Andrea ------=_NextPart_000_004B_01BF43A5.32465C40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
This is for anyone who has a copy of "20,000 Years = of Fashion"=20 by Boucher.  The dress happens to be an Elizabethan era Italian = dress, but=20 it doesn't have to be your focus.  Just look at the picture and = give me=20 your opinion.  The picture is #466 (Laudonia de Medici by A. = Bronzino)on=20 page 230.  It appears that their is some sort of trim at the = sleeves and=20 down the skirt.  Normally I would have thought it was piping, but = to me it=20 looks like the line is broken at regular intervals.  Does this look = like=20 beading to anyone else?  Or what does it look like to = you?
Andrea
------=_NextPart_000_004B_01BF43A5.32465C40-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Dec 11 05:53:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA23991 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 05:53:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA23946; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 05:13:46 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA09476 for h-costume-nopost; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 05:11:34 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta3-svc.virgin.net (mta3-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.144]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA09470 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 05:11:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from LOCALNAME ([194.168.61.99]) by mta3-svc.virgin.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP id <19991211120546.GKQD8910.mta3-svc.virgin.net@LOCALNAME> for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 12:05:46 +0000 Message-ID: <3852B058.7FF1@virgin.net> Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 12:13:12 -0800 From: Dawn Organization: ages of elegance (http://www.agesofelegance.co.uk) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-VN712-000 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: costume business References: <001a01bf434a$4fd281e0$0101a8c0@f1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dawn Heather wrote: > > -Poster: "Heather" > > > week?"), which is why *I'm* particularly interested in this conversation, > > as I'm thinking of starting a business, too. > > How do most of you bill (or are thinking of billing)? Is it hourly, by the > piece, combinations? Do you give estimates or set a firm price up front? Are > expenses (fabric, trim,...) included in the price or are they extra? > I have a basic pricelist of machine body hand finished clothing. As I have been doing it for so long I now have a good idea of what length of time each job is going to take. i.e trousers are days work so they are a days pay etc I charge fabric separately, something I learned was a wise move early on. But again I usually know how much fabric is needed and the approx cost pm so can give an accurate quote. For instance for a Napoleonic officers coat I need 21/2m redcloth at 30pm + 1m facing cloth @£45pm +1/2m white wool for turnbacks @£30pm + 15m lace + buttons. This doesn't vary . If it is for something like wedding dress when trims etc are decided during making the customer knows that the order price may differ slightly at the end but it is their responsibility to say no if they don't want expensive trims etc I take a 50% deposit Then another 25% halfway through then the balance before delivery. I also charge for postage if they can't pick up. Particularly as I have alot of customers overseas. I also charge if I have to go somewhere else for the fittings. Do also bear in mind that making time also means running around finding fabrics so include that. Your time is precious and your customers should respect that. Most don't Sewing is an unrecognised skill and you won't make a fortune by going pro. Even institutions like museums are now going for whatever is cheap rather than what is accurate for their display cases Good Luck Dawn > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME -- Ïࡱá _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Dec 11 08:43:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA24053 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 08:43:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA00773; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 08:02:20 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA25582 for h-costume-nopost; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 08:00:40 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from m8.boston.juno.com (m8.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.196]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA25571 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 08:00:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m8.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id ETKL8JY2; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 10:00:32 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: Clothing Mistakes Message-ID: <19991211.063450.5135.0.cley@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,4-7,11-12,14-18 From: cynthia j ley Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 10:00:32 EST Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: cynthia j ley Big clothing hate: Spandex. On women especially. It enhances the thin of thin people, and if you aren't thin it makes you look like you weight 400 pounds even though you may only weigh 120 dripping wet! Guys in good shape look pretty buff in it though. ;) Other dislikes: spike shoes, especially spike slippers with feathers or other froo-froo over the arch. Those ridiculous round cloth hats that were all the rage last year--I never saw anyone of any age who didn't look like they weren't wearing a pile of mashed potatoes on their head. Big likes: tailored looks, clothes designed to fit the body rather than the other way around, clean lines, nice flow, very classic and classy. Arlys ___________________________________________________________________ Why pay more to get Web access? Try Juno for FREE -- then it's just $9.95/month if you act NOW! Get your free software today: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Dec 11 08:52:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA24060 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 08:52:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01700; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 08:12:50 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA26924 for h-costume-nopost; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 08:11:14 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA26918 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 08:11:12 -0700 (MST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.585fc772 (7401) for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 10:10:36 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.585fc772.2583c36c@aol.com> Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 10:10:36 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Clothing Mistakes To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 44 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 12/11/1999 6:42:15 AM Eastern Standard Time, ahgideon@earthlink.net writes: <>Another vote for the bustle. Most women think their butts are too big already, why make it huge? Keep biting! Bustles no more make one's butt look big than panniers make one's hips look big. What they do make one look like is that one is wearing some kind of hooped or padded underpinning to support skirts. I ask you, does anyone over 6 years old ever think these things are flesh??? Now if you REALLY want to complain about these things, think: High waisted panniers....like with an Empire gown....it happened! or.... The dropped waisted version of the same thing in the 1920's Now THESE were mistakes! [like the torn up, full o' holes knits of the late 1980s or the "grunge look"] and blessedly didn't last long at all. [also like the torn up, full o' holes knits of the late 1980s or the "grunge look"] _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Dec 11 09:11:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA24096 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 09:11:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA03102; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 08:31:22 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA29001 for h-costume-nopost; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 08:29:44 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from polar.polarcomm.com (polar.polarcomm.com [207.70.247.33]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA28990 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 08:29:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from polarcomm.com (m249.polarcomm.com [209.74.88.125]) by polar.polarcomm.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA20070 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 09:32:19 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <38526C65.9FB0FB7@polarcomm.com> Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 09:23:17 -0600 From: Nic Deplazes X-Sender: "Nic Deplazes" (Unverified) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en]C-gatewaynet (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Clothing Mistakes References: <0.585fc772.2583c36c@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Nic Deplazes Since were are talking about fashions we could do without, my personal 'favorite' is the huge tube pants, with no waist and legs you could fit your body in. With the waist band hanging so low that if it wasn't for the boxers you would see half their cheeks. Nic(constant lurker) AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > > -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com > > In a message dated 12/11/1999 6:42:15 AM Eastern Standard Time, > ahgideon@earthlink.net writes: > > < > Bite your tongue....these are both fantastic styles....of course capable of > being ugly but mostly they look great. They're a standard for a century! > > >>Another vote for the bustle. Most women think their butts are too big > already, why make it huge? > > Keep biting! Bustles no more make one's butt look big than panniers make > one's hips look big. What they do make one look like is that one is wearing > some kind of hooped or padded underpinning to support skirts. I ask you, does > anyone over 6 years old ever think these things are flesh??? > > Now if you REALLY want to complain about these things, think: > > High waisted panniers....like with an Empire gown....it happened! or.... > The dropped waisted version of the same thing in the 1920's > > Now THESE were mistakes! [like the torn up, full o' holes knits of the late > 1980s or the "grunge look"] and blessedly didn't last long at all. [also like > the torn up, full o' holes knits of the late 1980s or the "grunge look"] > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Dec 11 10:07:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24124 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 10:07:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA07139; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 09:26:56 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA06725 for h-costume-nopost; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 09:25:06 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA06719 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 09:25:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA16958 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 11:24:58 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 11:24:56 -0500 (EST) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: H-COST: Highland Dress (again) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kevin & Mara Riley That's pretty much what I figured. Thanks! On Sat, 11 Dec 1999, Megan McConnell wrote: > > -Poster: "Megan McConnell" > > Mara > > Racinet was published in the 1800's - and is very romantical! I own it as > it is a very nice looking book, but would not dream of using it as a source. > > Think: typical Victorian ideals of history and you have it. > > Have a terrific Day > > Madilayn > > Visit my website: http://hercountry.com/gentlearts/ > ICQ # 57164109 > Yahoo Messageing: madilayn > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Dec 11 10:27:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24132 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 10:27:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA09003; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 09:46:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA09578 for h-costume-nopost; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 09:45:16 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.airmail.net (mail.airmail.net [206.66.12.40]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA09560 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 09:45:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from mamabear from [207.13.31.71] by mail.airmail.net (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.16 #30.421) with smtp for sender: id ; Sat, 11 Dec 99 10:45:10 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <017e01bf43f6$f0ec5860$0200a8c0@mamabear.stormypetrel.com> From: "Genevieve de Courtanvaux" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: question regarding a picture Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 10:44:06 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_017B_01BF43C4.A60723C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Genevieve de Courtanvaux" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_017B_01BF43C4.A60723C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It is piping that has been slashed. In Janet Arnold's "Patterns of = Fashion" there is an extant piece that also has this look. It is located = on page 15. See number 84. If you look closely at the piping running = down the center front of the doublet you can see that it is slashed. = Also on page 26 number 169. The neck of the garment also has the same = treatment. Good Luck with the garment. Carol Ross=20 aka Genevieve de Courtanvaux -----Original Message----- From: Andrea Gideon To: H-Costume Date: Saturday, December 11, 1999 5:49 AM Subject: H-COST: question regarding a picture This is for anyone who has a copy of "20,000 Years of Fashion" by = Boucher. The dress happens to be an Elizabethan era Italian dress, but = it doesn't have to be your focus. Just look at the picture and give me = your opinion. The picture is #466 (Laudonia de Medici by A. Bronzino)on = page 230. It appears that their is some sort of trim at the sleeves and = down the skirt. Normally I would have thought it was piping, but to me = it looks like the line is broken at regular intervals. Does this look = like beading to anyone else? Or what does it look like to you? Andrea ------=_NextPart_000_017B_01BF43C4.A60723C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
It is piping that has been slashed. In Janet Arnold's "Patterns of = Fashion"=20 there is an extant piece that also has this look. It is located on page = 15. See=20 number 84. If you look closely at the piping running down the center = front of=20 the doublet you can see that it is slashed. Also on page 26 number 169. = The neck=20 of the garment also has the same treatment. Good Luck with the = garment.
Carol Ross
aka Genevieve de Courtanvaux
-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 Andrea Gideon <ahgideon@earthlink.net>
= To:=20 H-Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Dat= e:=20 Saturday, December 11, 1999 5:49 AM
Subject: H-COST: = question=20 regarding a picture

This is for anyone who has a copy of "20,000 Years = of=20 Fashion" by Boucher.  The dress happens to be an Elizabethan era = Italian=20 dress, but it doesn't have to be your focus.  Just look at the = picture=20 and give me your opinion.  The picture is #466 (Laudonia de = Medici by A.=20 Bronzino)on page 230.  It appears that their is some sort of trim = at the=20 sleeves and down the skirt.  Normally I would have thought it was = piping,=20 but to me it looks like the line is broken at regular intervals.  = Does=20 this look like beading to anyone else?  Or what does it look like = to=20 you?
Andrea
------=_NextPart_000_017B_01BF43C4.A60723C0-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Dec 11 10:29:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24136 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 10:29:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA09264; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 09:49:02 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA09903 for h-costume-nopost; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 09:47:31 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mx.serv.net (mx.serv.net [205.153.153.234]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA09890 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 09:47:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from gia-g (dialup304.serv.net [207.207.70.197]) by mx.serv.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA03987 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 08:47:26 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <004e01bf43f7$13309f80$c546cfcf@gia-g> From: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" To: "Costume List" Subject: Re: H-COST: question regarding a picture Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 08:44:25 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0048_01BF43B3.EDBF2FC0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0048_01BF43B3.EDBF2FC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greetings! =20 I did something really scary just now! I went into my livingroom and = pulled out my Boucher *in the dark*! It's *funny* that I knew right off = where the book was..*LOL*! Anyhow, to the question: The edge trimming that you are looking at is a = common treatment and you'll find it on other garments of the time as = well; Janet Arnold has a few pictures in her books with this treatment = as well. Yes, you are correct it is broken at intervals. I speculate = that the trimming is actually a piece of material (or ribbon or material = folded on the *bias*) folded in half, lengthwise, sewn on like piping, = and then snipped at intervals. Or it the material is snipped prior to = sewing on, though I lean more towards after it was sewn on. Or the = trimming is made from individual mini tabs that are sewn on one by one. = Now, the reason why I think the trimming is snipped after application is = based on the idea that cut edges unravel with a lot of handling, which = is what happens when you are doing sewing by hand. Unless the snip is = treated with gum arabic or other sealants. Or if the trimming is cut on = the bias, then the snips *generally* would not tend to unravel. I say = generally, because it would depend on the weave and finish whether or = not the material would unravel. Or if it is made with individual tabs made with ribbon, then there would = not be any exposed cut edges.=20 Anyways, these are just my ramblings and speculation. =20 Gia/Giacinta -----Original Message----- From: Andrea Gideon To: H-Costume Date: Saturday, December 11, 1999 3:52 AM Subject: H-COST: question regarding a picture =20 =20 This is for anyone who has a copy of "20,000 Years of Fashion" by = Boucher. The dress happens to be an Elizabethan era Italian dress, but = it doesn't have to be your focus. Just look at the picture and give me = your opinion. The picture is #466 (Laudonia de Medici by A. Bronzino)on = page 230. It appears that their is some sort of trim at the sleeves and = down the skirt. Normally I would have thought it was piping, but to me = it looks like the line is broken at regular intervals. Does this look = like beading to anyone else? Or what does it look like to you? Andrea ------=_NextPart_000_0048_01BF43B3.EDBF2FC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Greetings!
 
I did something really scary just now!  I went into my = livingroom and=20 pulled out my Boucher *in the dark*!  It's *funny* that I knew = right off=20 where the book was..*LOL*!
 
Anyhow, to the question:  The edge trimming that you are = looking at is=20 a common treatment and you'll find it on other garments of the time as = well;=20 Janet Arnold has a few pictures in her books with this treatment as = well. Yes,=20 you are correct it is broken at intervals. I speculate that the trimming = is=20 actually a piece of material (or ribbon or material folded on the = *bias*) folded=20 in half, lengthwise, sewn on like piping, and then snipped at = intervals. =20 Or it the material is snipped prior to sewing on, though I lean more = towards=20 after it was sewn on.  Or the trimming is made from individual mini = tabs=20 that are sewn on one by one. 
 
Now, the reason why I think the trimming is snipped after = application is=20 based on the idea that cut edges unravel with a lot of handling, which = is what=20 happens when you are doing sewing by hand.  Unless the snip is = treated with=20 gum arabic or other sealants.  Or if the trimming is cut on the = bias, then=20 the snips *generally* would not tend to unravel.  I say generally, = because=20 it would depend on the weave and finish whether or not the material = would=20 unravel.
 
Or if it is made with individual tabs made with ribbon, then there = would=20 not be any exposed cut edges. 
 
Anyways, these are just my ramblings and=20 speculation.    
 
Gia/Giacinta
-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 Andrea Gideon <ahgideon@earthlink.net>
= To:=20 H-Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Dat= e:=20 Saturday, December 11, 1999 3:52 AM
Subject: H-COST: = question=20 regarding a picture

This is for anyone who has a copy of = "20,000 Years of=20 Fashion" by Boucher.  The dress happens to be an = Elizabethan era=20 Italian dress, but it doesn't have to be your focus.  Just look = at the=20 picture and give me your opinion.  The picture is #466 = (Laudonia de=20 Medici by A. Bronzino)on page 230.  It appears that their is = some sort=20 of trim at the sleeves and down the skirt.  Normally I would = have=20 thought it was piping, but to me it looks like the line is broken at = regular=20 intervals.  Does this look like beading to anyone else?  = Or what=20 does it look like to you?
Andrea
------=_NextPart_000_0048_01BF43B3.EDBF2FC0-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Dec 11 10:54:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24154 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 10:54:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA12358; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 10:14:35 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA13813 for h-costume-nopost; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 10:14:28 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA13789 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 10:14:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (dialup-209.244.212.18.Washington2.Level3.net [209.244.212.18]) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA12669 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 09:14:23 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <001001bf43fc$e03a4d00$12d4f4d1@pavilion> From: "Andrea Gideon" To: References: <017e01bf43f6$f0ec5860$0200a8c0@mamabear.stormypetrel.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: question regarding a picture Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 12:26:34 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01BF43D2.F646EE20" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Andrea Gideon" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BF43D2.F646EE20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It is piping that has been slashed. In Janet Arnold's "Patterns of = Fashion" there is an extant piece that also has this look. It is located = on page 15. See number 84. If you look closely at the piping running = down the center front of the doublet you can see that it is slashed. = Also on page 26 number 169. The neck of the garment also has the same = treatment. Good Luck with the garment. Carol Ross=20 aka Genevieve de Courtanvaux This sounds good, but it apears to be smaller than on the Janet Arnold = garment. Also, how would you prevent it from fraying? And, if it is = slashed, than it must not be piping like I'm used to thinking of piping, = a bias strip of fabric wrapped around a cord. If so, the cord would = work itself out of the casing. Andrea ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BF43D2.F646EE20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 

It is piping that has been slashed. In Janet Arnold's "Patterns = of=20 Fashion" there is an extant piece that also has this look. It is = located on=20 page 15. See number 84. If you look closely at the piping running down = the=20 center front of the doublet you can see that it is slashed. Also on = page 26=20 number 169. The neck of the garment also has the same treatment. Good = Luck=20 with the garment.
Carol Ross
aka Genevieve de Courtanvaux
 
 
This sounds good, but it apears to be = smaller than=20 on the Janet Arnold garment.  Also, how would you prevent it from = fraying?  And, if it is slashed, than it must not be piping like = I'm used=20 to thinking of piping, a bias strip of fabric wrapped around a = cord.  If=20 so, the cord would work itself out of the = casing.
Andrea
------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BF43D2.F646EE20-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Dec 11 11:04:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24172 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 11:04:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA13790; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 10:23:50 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA15328 for h-costume-nopost; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 10:23:33 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA15321 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 10:23:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r9p11.directcon.net [206.170.184.110]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA03115 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 09:23:23 -0800 Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 09:23:23 -0800 Message-Id: <199912111723.JAA03115@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Sumptuary Law violations-more specific Q Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson At 04:26 PM 12/10/1999 -0800, you wrote: > >-Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > >> A Swedish princess who >> tries will be sorry, I'm sure, but not fined or put in the stocks or >> whatever. However... > >FWIW, I doubt a Princess needs to worry about sumptuary laws, local or foreign. >I might be mistaken, I often am, but weren't sumptuary laws for the nobility on >down, not for royalty? The Swedish Princess who visited Elizabeth's court did cause a lot of trouble, but I don't know if any of it was of a sumptuary nature. She ran up terrible bills, stayed far too long, and resorted to near blackmail to get out of the country with her unpaid for purchases. And her husband was worse. She did get a bit of a slap down from Elizabeth: in many records she is referred to as the Lady Cecelia, rather than Princess Cecilia. I used to portray her at Ren Faire occasionally, and she was a hoot. "May I gif you vone of the medals that my brother, Eric the Mad, had made in testimonial of my virginity, after I vas found naked in bed vith my brother in law on his vedding night?" Someone really should write a novel.... Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Dec 11 11:21:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24192 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 11:21:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA15676; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 10:39:28 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA17159 for h-costume-nopost; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 10:37:16 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.airmail.net (mail.airmail.net [206.66.12.40]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA17150 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 10:37:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from mamabear from [207.13.31.71] by mail.airmail.net (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.16 #30.421) with smtp for sender: id ; Sat, 11 Dec 99 11:37:13 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <019d01bf43fe$332cee40$0200a8c0@mamabear.stormypetrel.com> From: "Genevieve de Courtanvaux" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: question regarding a picture Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 11:36:04 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_019A_01BF43CB.E83E91E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Genevieve de Courtanvaux" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_019A_01BF43CB.E83E91E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable You're correct about the cord.....I was thinking piping as in inset trim = not as in have a cord in it....just two different view points of the = same thing. :) Carol Ross aka Genevieve de Courtanvuax -----Original Message----- From: Andrea Gideon To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Saturday, December 11, 1999 11:15 AM Subject: Re: H-COST: question regarding a picture It is piping that has been slashed. In Janet Arnold's "Patterns of = Fashion" there is an extant piece that also has this look. It is located = on page 15. See number 84. If you look closely at the piping running = down the center front of the doublet you can see that it is slashed. = Also on page 26 number 169. The neck of the garment also has the same = treatment. Good Luck with the garment. Carol Ross=20 aka Genevieve de Courtanvaux This sounds good, but it apears to be smaller than on the Janet = Arnold garment. Also, how would you prevent it from fraying? And, if = it is slashed, than it must not be piping like I'm used to thinking of = piping, a bias strip of fabric wrapped around a cord. If so, the cord = would work itself out of the casing. Andrea ------=_NextPart_000_019A_01BF43CB.E83E91E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
You're correct about the cord.....I was thinking piping as in inset = trim=20 not as in have a cord in it....just two different view points of the = same thing.=20 :)
Carol Ross
aka Genevieve de Courtanvuax
-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 Andrea Gideon <ahgideon@earthlink.net>
= To:=20 h-costume@indra.com = <h-costume@indra.com>
Dat= e:=20 Saturday, December 11, 1999 11:15 AM
Subject: Re: = H-COST:=20 question regarding a picture

 

It is piping that has been slashed. In Janet Arnold's "Patterns = of=20 Fashion" there is an extant piece that also has this look. It is = located on=20 page 15. See number 84. If you look closely at the piping running = down the=20 center front of the doublet you can see that it is slashed. Also on = page 26=20 number 169. The neck of the garment also has the same treatment. = Good Luck=20 with the garment.
Carol Ross
aka Genevieve de Courtanvaux
 
 
This sounds good, but it apears to be = smaller than=20 on the Janet Arnold garment.  Also, how would you prevent it = from=20 fraying?  And, if it is slashed, than it must not be piping = like I'm=20 used to thinking of piping, a bias strip of fabric wrapped around a=20 cord.  If so, the cord would work itself out of the=20 casing.
Andrea
------=_NextPart_000_019A_01BF43CB.E83E91E0-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Dec 11 12:29:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24284 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 12:29:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA21509; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 11:49:07 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA26670 for h-costume-nopost; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 11:48:53 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from fepE.post.tele.dk (fepE.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.137]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA26658 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 11:48:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from post12.tele.dk ([195.249.162.108]) by fepE.post.tele.dk (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with ESMTP id <19991211184849.XYYC16362.fepE.post.tele.dk@post12.tele.dk> for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 19:48:49 +0100 Message-ID: <38529C16.872A85CA@post12.tele.dk> Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 19:46:46 +0100 From: leif drews X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [da] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Clothing Mistakes References: <0.585fc772.2583c36c@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: leif drews I agree totally on this: Bjarne Drews AlbertCat@aol.com skrev: > -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com > > In a message dated 12/11/1999 6:42:15 AM Eastern Standard Time, > ahgideon@earthlink.net writes: > > < > Bite your tongue....these are both fantastic styles....of course capable of > being ugly but mostly they look great. They're a standard for a century! > > >>Another vote for the bustle. Most women think their butts are too big > already, why make it huge? > > Keep biting! Bustles no more make one's butt look big than panniers make > one's hips look big. What they do make one look like is that one is wearing > some kind of hooped or padded underpinning to support skirts. I ask you, does > anyone over 6 years old ever think these things are flesh??? > > Now if you REALLY want to complain about these things, think: > > High waisted panniers....like with an Empire gown....it happened! or.... > The dropped waisted version of the same thing in the 1920's > > Now THESE were mistakes! [like the torn up, full o' holes knits of the late > 1980s or the "grunge look"] and blessedly didn't last long at all. [also like > the torn up, full o' holes knits of the late 1980s or the "grunge look"] > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME -- Leif Drews boulevard 5, 3 th 1635 København V Bjarne Drews boulevard 5,3.th 1635 København V tlf. 35 37 13 70 Homepage: http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/~DeeDee_Revia/1index.html _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Dec 11 12:48:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24303 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 12:48:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23114; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 12:07:05 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA29591 for h-costume-nopost; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 12:07:00 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA29583 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 12:06:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA26938 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 11:06:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-58-97.lightspeed.net [209.165.58.97]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA27193 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 11:06:57 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <001001bf440d$5e128980$af57fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: References: Subject: Re: H-COST: Sumptuary Law violations-point to resource? Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 11:24:37 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" Megan, I didn't recall the address when I made the post because it had been so long ago. We printed it off of Drea's site. http://www.dnaco.net/~aleed/corsets/sumptuary.html I hope it is still up. My copy was printed June 4th of 99. Michelle > > -Poster: "Megan McConnell" > > Mchelle > > Can you please post the site with the Sumptary Laws on it? (or sent it > privately to me if you like) > > Have a terrific Day > > Megan > > Visit my website: http://hercountry.com/gentlearts/ > ICQ # 57164109 > Yahoo Messageing: madilayn > > Visit D'Realm of the Fairies: http://www.thesitefights.com/fairies > > Do you fight? http://www.thesitefighs.com > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Dec 11 13:12:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24340 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 13:12:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24808; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 12:32:00 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA02951 for h-costume-nopost; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 12:31:29 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA02945 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 12:31:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA05041 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 11:31:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-58-97.lightspeed.net [209.165.58.97]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA11631 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 11:31:25 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <004801bf4410$c91008e0$af57fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: References: <0.585fc772.2583c36c@aol.com> <38526C65.9FB0FB7@polarcomm.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Clothing Mistakes Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 11:49:05 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" Mom and I have had many a conversation, or complain-fest, about that look associated with the 'tough' gang boys. The pants are so loose that they slid down, barely being held by the largest part of the rear. The crotch is somewhere around the knees. Then, because they are being worn improperly, the boys chop the bottom of the pants off, so they don't trip on the things. These kids walk around with their boxers showing and can't do anything but a snailpaced walk without losing their pants. I have seen these guys walking across the street with one hand on their pants to pull them back up with every step. Goodness, if they did end up in a fight, they'd lose simply because of their dumb fashion sense. Michelle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Dec 11 14:10:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA24381 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 14:10:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29863; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 13:29:30 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA10326 for h-costume-nopost; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 13:29:12 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10319 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 13:29:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from lindo (p8.a8.du.radix.net [207.192.132.136]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA14846 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 15:29:06 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: X-Sender: lindo@saltmine.radix.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 18:57:13 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: lindo@Radix.Net Subject: Re: H-COST: Banyan question In-Reply-To: <385090DB.271B@virgin.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: lindo@radix.net At 09:34 PM 12/9/99 -0800, you wrote: > >-Poster: Dawn > >No the is only one on page 83 xxx111 dated 1750. >They are built like the coats of the period and can be rather elaborate > >Dawn Thanks! Well, we'll see which one I get around to making... (grin) Mara Kevin + Mara Riley Home Page http://www.radix.net/~lindo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Dec 11 14:10:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA24384 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 14:10:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29848; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 13:29:29 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA10344 for h-costume-nopost; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 13:29:17 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10339 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 13:29:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from lindo (p8.a8.du.radix.net [207.192.132.136]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA14872 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 15:29:14 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: X-Sender: lindo@saltmine.radix.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 19:29:42 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: lindo@Radix.Net Subject: Re: H-COST: Sewing Hells (was: costume business) In-Reply-To: <1F176F2C2977D311B3300090270E63784D2497@scl-exch.phoenix.co m> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: lindo@radix.net At 01:01 PM 12/10/99 -0800, Cynthia Barnes wrote: >I will only barter my costume services for someone else svcs. Not money. I >figure an hour for something I'm good at vs. an hour for something you're >good at is fair. I've had a few say they'd rather pay. I'm not willing to >go pro & take a pay cut. Instead, I jokingly offer that they can pay my >regular silicon valley S/W engineer hourly rate. Somehow, they just laugh. >Historically & today, people just aren't willing to pay seamstresses & >tailors. Maybe if I called myself a Fabric Engineer? LOL! My hubby has the same problem. He makes a pretty good wage in his 'real' job, and when people ask him how much it would cost them to have him make something in his woodworking shop, he just laughs and tells them they can't afford his hourly rate. He does make stuff for friends, however (small stuff) -- IF he ever gets around to it. Personally, I only sew for others for barter or gifts. I've tried sewing for money, and I just can't do it. I'm too much of a perfectionist to spend as little time on a project as would make it economically feasible. Cheers, Mara Kevin + Mara Riley Home Page http://www.radix.net/~lindo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Dec 11 14:10:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA24389 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 14:10:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29845; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 13:29:29 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA10336 for h-costume-nopost; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 13:29:15 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10330 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 13:29:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from lindo (p8.a8.du.radix.net [207.192.132.136]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA14857; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 15:29:09 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: X-Sender: lindo@saltmine.radix.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 18:58:56 -0500 To: dawn.wood1@virgin.net From: lindo@Radix.Net Subject: Re: H-COST: Tartan (was Pink) Cc: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <38508FE4.246D@virgin.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: lindo@radix.net At 09:30 PM 12/9/99 -0800, Dawn wrote: >I agree. My society re-enactes the Jacobite rebellion in the Uk. >It is now recognised that the 'tartans' are local weaves and dyes just >as in most countries. these just happen to be of stripes and checks >which were popular 18thc fabric designs anyway, Tartans as we know them >are a victorian idea. >Dawn Dawn, Which group are you with? My hubby just sent me some links to a group or two doing Jacobite reenactment in the U.K. It would be interesting to compare costume notes ! Cheers, Mara Kevin + Mara Riley Home Page http://www.radix.net/~lindo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Dec 11 14:51:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA24413 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 14:51:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA03227; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 14:11:01 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA15868 for h-costume-nopost; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 14:10:45 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from Herb-Lore.com (mail.herb-lore.com [209.141.89.62]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA15856 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 14:10:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from f1 [207.204.223.209] by Herb-Lore.com (SMTPD32-5.05) id ABD34250128; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 14:10:27 -0700 Message-ID: <001401bf4424$8c171e60$0101a8c0@f1> From: "Heather" To: References: <0.585fc772.2583c36c@aol.com> <38526C65.9FB0FB7@polarcomm.com> <004801bf4410$c91008e0$af57fea9@gunsafes> Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Clothing Mistakes Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 14:10:33 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Heather" > Mom and I have had many a conversation, or complain-fest, about that look > associated with the 'tough' gang boys. The pants are so loose that they slid > down, barely being held by the largest part of the rear. The crotch is > somewhere around the knees. Then, because they are being worn improperly, > the boys chop the bottom of the pants off, so they don't trip on the things. > These kids walk around with their boxers showing and can't do anything but a > snailpaced walk without losing their pants. I have seen these guys walking > across the street with one hand on their pants to pull them back up with > every step. Goodness, if they did end up in a fight, they'd lose simply > because of their dumb fashion sense. I can't stand this style personally. Doesn't it make you want to walk up to these kids and just pull their pants down?! I also don't care the 80s ripped clothing (especially the t-shirts) or for the big spiral hair (with the wings), huge hoop, bad make up, and bubble gum of the late 80s. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Dec 11 14:55:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA24417 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 14:55:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA03489; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 14:14:42 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA16367 for h-costume-nopost; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 14:14:38 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from Herb-Lore.com (mail.herb-lore.com [209.141.89.62]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA16360 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 14:14:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from f1 [207.204.223.209] by Herb-Lore.com (SMTPD32-5.05) id ACBE42C0128; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 14:14:22 -0700 Message-ID: <002301bf4425$17c92480$0101a8c0@f1> From: "Heather" To: References: <0.585fc772.2583c36c@aol.com> <38526C65.9FB0FB7@polarcomm.com> <004801bf4410$c91008e0$af57fea9@gunsafes> <001401bf4424$8c171e60$0101a8c0@f1> Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Clothing Mistakes Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 14:14:28 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Heather" > huge hoop, bad make up, and bubble gum of the late 80s. Oops. That was huge hoop earrings. It was popular to where them so they touched the shoulder. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Dec 11 19:51:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA24792 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 19:51:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA25578; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 19:10:40 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA25595 for h-costume-nopost; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 19:10:06 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ionet.net (root@mail.ionet.net [206.41.128.16]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA25589 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 19:10:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from buck (ip63.phoenix8.az.pub-ip.psi.net [38.29.61.63]) by ionet.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id UAA20485 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 20:09:59 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <001b01bf4446$197d3a20$3f3d1d26@buck> From: "Dean Quackenbush" To: References: Subject: H-COST: Need Book recommendation for 1600-1800's Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 19:10:43 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Dean Quackenbush" I have an aquaintence who is looking for recommendations for a Herbert Norris type book for later periods 1600-1800s. Anyone recomend one in particular? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Dec 11 20:15:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA24825 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 20:15:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA27431; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 19:34:54 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA28671 for h-costume-nopost; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 19:34:44 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.68]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA28659 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 19:34:42 -0700 (MST) From: M311@aol.com Received: from M311@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.99b53491 (4334) for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 21:34:07 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.99b53491.2584639e@aol.com> Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 21:34:06 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Clothing Mistakes To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 38 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: M311@aol.com In a message dated 12/11/99 3:11:39 PM Central Standard Time, heather@herb-lore.com writes: << Doesn't it make you want to walk up to these kids and just pull their pants down?! >> Oh, yes. I don't like that style. When their pants are to long because of that or what ever reason my husand says they like the walk the couple of inches off instead of hem them. I don't like the platform shoes either. I am also getting sick of the women wearing shirts with their bras showing. Plus neon colors. Kelly m311@aol.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Dec 11 21:03:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA24845 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 21:03:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA01141; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 20:22:40 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA04187 for h-costume-nopost; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 20:22:20 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from crunchy.sound.net (crunchy.sound.net [205.242.194.25]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA04181 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 20:22:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 1722 invoked from network); 12 Dec 1999 03:20:41 -0000 Received: from tnt1-082019.kc.sound.net (HELO sound.net) (209.153.82.19) by crunchy.sound.net with SMTP; 12 Dec 1999 03:20:41 -0000 Message-ID: <38531574.DF4B9215@sound.net> Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 21:24:36 -0600 From: Linda Thompson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Costume business billing Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Linda Thompson How I bill: I do a consult: Determine if I am providing the fabric or if fabric is provided. (I encourage them to purchase their own fabrics/trims etc). If I provide it, then I have to charge sales tax since it is considered a retail sale if I provide the source materials. If they buy the stuff elsewhere and I simply create the clothing, then it is considered a service. Anyway, during the consult, I price everything, down to individual buttons if need be, discuss everything in detail and have them sign a contract that clearly states, any changes will change the agreed upon price. I request 50% down, and payments each fitting, with the last appointment paid in full. Make absolutely NO compromise on this one. The only times I have eaten the cost of something is when I have allowed someone to not pay up front. They almost always have an excuse why they can not pay it on the agreed upon date if you aren't diligent in keeping to the agreed contract. It is not easy sometimes, especially if you are a sucker for a sad story, I know this from experience.... If they start out at the beginning sort of whining about the price of things, simply declare that perhaps they might like to think about it for a while and show them the door. Do not try to convince someone that it is worth it, and don't listen to them complain. If you have to, then you will probably not have a good working relationship with this person in the long run. Some items are a set price, and some I still have to estimate. I try to get $15.00 per hour (above any of my costs). And I usually come out close, although I still have a tendency to underestimate the elaborate pieces. Hope this helped Linda _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Dec 11 22:26:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA24889 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 22:26:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA06636; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 21:45:34 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA13357 for h-costume-nopost; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 21:45:07 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.az.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.az.home.com [24.1.240.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA13321 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 21:45:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from CX735880C ([24.11.82.114]) by mail.rdc1.az.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <19991212044458.EPMU2534.mail.rdc1.az.home.com@CX735880C> for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 20:44:58 -0800 From: "Sandy McDaniel" To: Subject: H-COST: RE: Clothing Mistakes. Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 21:40:10 -0700 Message-ID: <001001bf445a$f9d31950$72520b18@phnx1.az.home.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <199912111213.FAA09643@net.indra.com> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Sandy McDaniel" I just spent 3 days in jury selection (wasn't chosen) during which I spent a lot of time out in the hallways of the Courts bldg. There was much tooing and froing of well-dressed women whose professions could be discerned by skirt length: Classic style, knee length= attorney. Micro-mini, current fashion= T.V. reporter. "Megan McConnell" Wrote: I agree about the wheel farthingale, but my alltime hate is the current trend for Micro Mini skirts (as in Ally McBeal). You have to have perfect legs to wear them and look good, but they are just plain not business-like or professional for work wear (and yes - I know people who do wear them for work). _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Dec 11 23:48:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA24981 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 23:48:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA12080; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 23:07:33 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA22371 for h-costume-nopost; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 23:07:13 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA22363 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 23:07:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA05608 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 22:07:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-88.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.88]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA06484 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 1999 22:07:09 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <002901bf4469$9a7e8160$0f80fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: References: <0.585fc772.2583c36c@aol.com> <38526C65.9FB0FB7@polarcomm.com> <004801bf4410$c91008e0$af57fea9@gunsafes> <001401bf4424$8c171e60$0101a8c0@f1> Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Clothing Mistakes Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 22:24:51 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" > I can't stand this style personally. Doesn't it make you want to walk up to > these kids and just pull their pants down?! Absolutely! Both mom and I have done it to a couple of boys. Michelle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Dec 12 08:21:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA30713 for ; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 08:21:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA02795; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 07:41:10 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA04957 for h-costume-nopost; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 07:40:16 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from polar.polarcomm.com (polar.polarcomm.com [207.70.247.33]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA04948 for ; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 07:40:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from polarcomm.com (m257.polarcomm.com [209.74.88.133]) by polar.polarcomm.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA09744 for ; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 08:42:53 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <3853B251.BB2FD52D@polarcomm.com> Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 08:33:53 -0600 From: Nic Deplazes X-Sender: "Nic Deplazes" (Unverified) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en]C-gatewaynet (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: RE: Clothing Mistakes. References: <001001bf445a$f9d31950$72520b18@phnx1.az.home.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Nic Deplazes Not only that but have you ever tried to sit in one? I wore mine once (it is a cute suit, worse my mother bought it for me :}). Everytime I stood up I knew I was flashing somebody. I found a new skirt and still wear the jacket, but without an extention the skirt will never again leave my closet. Nic Sandy McDaniel wrote: > > -Poster: "Sandy McDaniel" > > I just spent 3 days in jury selection (wasn't chosen) during which I spent a > lot of time out in the hallways of the Courts bldg. There was much tooing > and froing of well-dressed women whose professions could be > discerned by skirt length: Classic style, knee length= attorney. Micro-mini, > current fashion= T.V. reporter. > > "Megan McConnell" Wrote: > I agree about the wheel farthingale, but my alltime hate is the current > trend for Micro Mini skirts (as in Ally McBeal). > > You have to have perfect legs to wear them and look good, but they are just > plain not business-like or professional for work wear (and yes - I know > people who do wear them for work). > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Dec 12 08:21:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA30717 for ; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 08:21:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA02838; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 07:41:59 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA05145 for h-costume-nopost; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 07:41:56 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from polar.polarcomm.com (polar.polarcomm.com [207.70.247.33]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA05138 for ; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 07:41:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from polarcomm.com (m257.polarcomm.com [209.74.88.133]) by polar.polarcomm.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA09805 for ; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 08:44:33 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <3853B2B6.40761491@polarcomm.com> Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 08:35:34 -0600 From: Nic Deplazes X-Sender: "Nic Deplazes" (Unverified) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en]C-gatewaynet (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Clothing Mistakes References: <0.585fc772.2583c36c@aol.com> <38526C65.9FB0FB7@polarcomm.com> <004801bf4410$c91008e0$af57fea9@gunsafes> <001401bf4424$8c171e60$0101a8c0@f1> <002901bf4469$9a7e8160$0f80fea9@gunsafes> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Nic Deplazes Well I do it to my own son, he picked a pair of them up somewhere and when he brought them home he was warned. Needless to say he doesn't wear them very often and never out in public with me. Nic Michelle wrote: > > -Poster: "Michelle" > > > I can't stand this style personally. Doesn't it make you want to walk up > to > > these kids and just pull their pants down?! > > Absolutely! Both mom and I have done it to a couple of boys. > > Michelle > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Dec 12 09:20:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA30763 for ; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 09:20:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA05239; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 08:40:33 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA10602 for h-costume-nopost; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 08:40:14 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from penguin.prod.itd.earthlink.net (penguin.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.134]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA10595 for ; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 08:40:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (1Cust123.tnt2.denton.tx.da.uu.net [63.25.75.123]) by penguin.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA09967 for ; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 07:40:11 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3853C4CE.7217FAF3@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 09:52:47 -0600 From: Magdalena X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: RE: Clothing Mistakes. References: <001001bf445a$f9d31950$72520b18@phnx1.az.home.com> <3853B251.BB2FD52D@polarcomm.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Magdalena > I found a new skirt and still > wear the jacket, but without an extention the skirt will never again > leave my closet. > > Nic Never say never. Find yourself a cute 8 year old who wants a suit skirt the right length. I thought that full slips made fabulous evening dresses... -Magdalena _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Dec 12 16:54:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA31512 for ; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 16:54:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA11158; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 16:12:53 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA09745 for h-costume-nopost; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 16:10:31 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA09733 for ; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 16:10:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from wanda (br-ppp05.hevanet.com [198.5.254.211]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA02063; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 15:10:18 -0800 (PST) From: "Wanda Pease" To: "H-COST" , "SCA-Garb" Subject: H-COST: Fashion in the Age of the Black Prince Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 15:06:59 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Wanda Pease" For those interested the long awaited reprint of _Fashion in the Age of the Black Prince_ by Stella Marie Newton, has finally hit the book store shelves. I know some people have it backordered through Barnes and Noble. I picked up my copy at Powell's on Saturday. They have three copies left at $35. I looked at the B&N price, factored in the shipping cost, and decided it was worth it to me to have it in my hot little hands NOW! :-) Regina Romsey, OL _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Dec 12 17:13:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA31551 for ; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 17:13:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA12471; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 16:33:31 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA13035 for h-costume-nopost; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 16:33:24 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law-f48.hotmail.com [209.185.130.36]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA13029 for ; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 16:33:22 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 2239 invoked by uid 0); 12 Dec 1999 23:32:56 -0000 Message-ID: <19991212233256.2238.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 208.156.3.146 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 15:32:55 PST X-Originating-IP: [208.156.3.146] From: "Susannah Eanes" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: getting rid of year-end Inventory Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 15:32:55 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Susannah Eanes" Hi guys, I have several items that I am willing to part with for about 1/2 of the regular price, including mostly women's 18th century work clothing, infants' items, a few pairs of 18th c. women's shoes, and other basics. If anyone is interested in perusing the list of items for sale, please e-mail me privately. I will send a list back directly to you as an attachment (or if your e-mail provider does not like attachments, let me know and I will copy it directly into the body of the e-mail). I would like to get rid of everything I can before the end of the year because in Virginia I have to pay tax on unsold items in my business inventory. Thanks, Susannah "We are only the trustees for those who come after us." --William Morris ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Dec 12 17:46:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA31631 for ; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 17:46:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA15138; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 17:05:43 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA17481 for h-costume-nopost; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 17:05:34 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA17475 for ; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 17:05:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991213000529.LJBB17996.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 16:05:29 -0800 Message-ID: <38543859.615A7374@home.com> Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 18:05:45 -0600 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST:Helping friends to make costumes References: <1A688871A7@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kat & Kent I'm teaching a friend to sew... we started by her watching my cut out the ghost costume for her son at Halloween... and then I walked her through sewing most of it (I did a tricky part). I vocalized all my tips & tricks and she told me later that she'd learned more from that one session than all the sewing classes and other folx trying for years to teach her to sew. I must say... that really made my day! I've had a few friends take me up on the "no charge if I'm just helping you" offer over the years... but most of them decide they don't *really* need the costume, go elsewhere or ante up the money for me to "just do it!". Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Dec 12 19:05:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA31807 for ; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 19:05:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA22831; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 18:24:13 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA27227 for h-costume-nopost; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 18:23:55 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.7]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA27218 for ; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 18:23:53 -0700 (MST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.4427efc3 (3996) for ; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 20:23:17 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.4427efc3.2585a485@aol.com> Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 20:23:17 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: getting rid of year-end Inventory To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 44 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com Any average size women's 18th cen shoes? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Dec 12 19:07:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA31814 for ; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 19:07:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA23072; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 18:26:29 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA27582 for h-costume-nopost; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 18:26:25 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d08.mx.aol.com (imo-d08.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.40]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA27576 for ; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 18:26:23 -0700 (MST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.536efa14 (3996) for ; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 20:24:34 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.536efa14.2585a4d2@aol.com> Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 20:24:34 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: getting rid of year-end Inventory To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 44 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com Oops....didn't mean to clutter up the list with that one. Sorry. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Dec 12 19:34:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA31861 for ; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 19:34:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA25488; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 18:53:31 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA01334 for h-costume-nopost; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 18:53:24 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA01320 for ; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 18:53:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from great-hal (ip126.toronto13.dialup.canada.psi.net [154.5.66.126]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id UAA01278 for ; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 20:53:20 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 20:53:20 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19991212205736.1a578f46@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: msmclean@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: "Marsha S. McLean" Subject: H-COST: Re: h-costume fashion mistakes Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Marsha S. McLean" The 70s. I didn't like the clothing then as a kid, and I don't like it now. You KNOW it's a bad fashion if 4 year olds are refusing to get dressed 'cause their clothers are so ugly. Marsha/Madinia _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Dec 12 20:00:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA31895 for ; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 20:00:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA27454; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 19:20:35 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA04994 for h-costume-nopost; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 19:20:03 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mx20.rmci.net (halcyon.rmci.net [205.162.184.63]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA04968 for ; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 19:19:59 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 28438 invoked from network); 13 Dec 1999 02:19:55 -0000 Received: from pag-di53.rica.net (HELO rica.net) (209.211.110.53) by halcyon.rmci.net with SMTP; 13 Dec 1999 02:19:55 -0000 Message-ID: <3854564C.F0B1B45C@rica.net> Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 21:13:34 -0500 From: Jennie Chancey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Clothing Mistakes References: <0.585fc772.2583c36c@aol.com> <38526C65.9FB0FB7@polarcomm.com> <004801bf4410$c91008e0$af57fea9@gunsafes> <001401bf4424$8c171e60$0101a8c0@f1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Jennie Chancey Okay, I have to jump in with my "yucky" list, too: 1. The "style" of boys and girls who wear their pants longer than their shoes, so they are stepping on the back of their pants legs, which eventually shred, split and get trashy. This is a major "hit" here in Nothern VA among the mall crowd. 2. Suffocatingly tight polyester girls' shirts and sweaters that bare the midrif--this "look" is particularly gross when the midrif is bulging out over the pants. Makes it look like the girls are squashed sausage. 3. The new "peekaboo" underwear rage -- let your pants hang on your hips so we can all ogle your boxers (girls do this, too). And what is it with the colors now? Everything in our "teens" or "juniors" sections in the mall is fairly monochrome. Its either all khakis and browns or it is all blacks and greys. Borrrr-ing. The young "in" crowd looks like lumps of day-old mashed potatoes or something the rag bin threw up. Give me women in tailored dresses a la' Grace Kelley or men in linen or tweed suits a la' Cary Grant any day. My two cents, Jennie -- Sense and Sensibility http://www.sensibility.com winsome clothing with an old-fashioned appeal _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Dec 12 20:09:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA31908 for ; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 20:09:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA28143; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 19:28:47 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA06073 for h-costume-nopost; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 19:28:38 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA06062 for ; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 19:28:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from test (ip108.toronto26.dialup.canada.psi.net [154.11.83.108]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id VAA05990 for ; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 21:28:33 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19991212204503.009cbab0@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 20:45:03 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: Fw: taffeta? In-Reply-To: <385131D6.7CA94576@serv.net> References: <002b01bf432e$605fa220$e157f4d1@pavilion> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >> > Do you have any idea if taffeta is a period fabric (for mid-1400s?) > >I would say yes. It was sometimes known as shot silk. Hmmm, I should >say that changeable taffeta (aka shot silk) was period. It is a simple >plain weave, using one color for the warp and one color for the weft. >Now, I don't have any documentation at my fingertips or even at arms >length, but it seems to me, in my memory bank, that this is so. I don't know about 15th century but there are numerous references in 16th stuff to "chaungeble taffete" and "taffeta" (lots of difference spellings). Try QE's Wardrobe or Lost From Her Majesty's Back or Stubbes. Mind you I seem to remember seeing some 15th century Italian stuff in shot textiles. Oh, don't forget all the pictures of the ancestor's of Christ on the ceiling/walls of the Cistine Chapel. A large portion of them are portrayed in shot texitle clothing. Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Dec 12 20:09:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA31912 for ; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 20:09:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA28153; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 19:28:49 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA06112 for h-costume-nopost; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 19:28:46 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA06097 for ; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 19:28:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from test (ip108.toronto26.dialup.canada.psi.net [154.11.83.108]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id VAA06033 for ; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 21:28:42 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19991212212017.009cb6f0@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 21:20:17 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: question regarding a picture In-Reply-To: <004e01bf43cf$1bffbf60$f8d7f4d1@pavilion> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Danielle Nunn At 06:58 11/12/99 -0500, you wrote: This is for anyone who has a copy of "20,000 Years of Fashion" by Boucher. The dress happens to be an Elizabethan era Italian dress, but it doesn't have to be your focus. Just look at the picture and give me your opinion. The picture is #466 (Laudonia de Medici by A. Bronzino)on page 230. It appears that their is some sort of trim at the sleeves and down the skirt. Normally I would have thought it was piping, but to me it looks like the line is broken at regular intervals. Does this look like beading to anyone else? Or what does it look like to you? Andrea Greetings, I always thought that the trim was a slashed piping for lack of a better description. Kind of like what you see along the neckline of Elizabeth's "phoniex portrait." A woman I know reproduced the the Phoenix gown and what she did was used lots of little tabs of ribbon. It was labour intensive but worked well. Does anyone know of a larger colour copy of the portrait in Boucher? Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Dec 12 20:10:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA31919 for ; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 20:10:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA28370; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 19:30:01 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA06274 for h-costume-nopost; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 19:29:57 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.3]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA06266 for ; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 19:29:55 -0700 (MST) From: Cheryldee@aol.com Received: from Cheryldee@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.e8ae46a9 (3872) for ; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 21:29:14 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.e8ae46a9.2585b3f9@aol.com> Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 21:29:13 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: h-costume fashion mistakes To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 44 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cheryldee@aol.com In a message dated 12/12/99 6:54:25 PM Mountain Standard Time, msmclean@interlog.com writes: << The 70s. I didn't like the clothing then as a kid, and I don't like it now. You KNOW it's a bad fashion if 4 year olds are refusing to get dressed 'cause their clothers are so ugly. >> Looked bad then and looks even worse now that it has gone retro. I get to see it every day on my college students who think they look divine in hideous print polyester. Cheryl _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Dec 12 20:14:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA31926 for ; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 20:14:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA28648; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 19:34:04 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA06746 for h-costume-nopost; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 19:33:59 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA06735 for ; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 19:33:57 -0700 (MST) From: Panmela@aol.com Received: from Panmela@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.264f868b (4069) for ; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 21:33:17 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.264f868b.2585b4ec@aol.com> Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 21:33:16 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: Sumptuary Law violations-more specific Q To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 49 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Panmela@aol.com In a message dated 99-12-10 17:39:42 EST, you write: > First off, thank you all for reading and responding to my initial question. > > The time period is 1600, the area is England. The person is a very, very > wealthy visiting merchant from Germany. How would the sumptuary laws been > applied? In 1600 you are at the end of Elizabeth I's reign. She attempted through various proclamations during her reign to enforce the sumptuary laws as laid out under the reign of her father and her sister Mary, who preceded her as Queen of England. While I am still looking for a specific reference, it is my memory that in England the penalty for breaking sumptuary laws were stiff fines paid to the crown. To what extent these laws would be applied to someone visiting or not, is another question. My references suggest that the law was very difficult to enforce, even on the English themselves. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Dec 12 20:58:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA31987 for ; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 20:58:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA02749; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 20:17:41 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA12450 for h-costume-nopost; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 20:17:11 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d10.mx (imo-d10.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.42]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA12437 for ; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 20:17:08 -0700 (MST) From: Panmela@aol.com Received: from Panmela@aol.com by imo-d10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.f37b573d (4556) for ; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 22:16:25 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.f37b573d.2585bf08@aol.com> Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 22:16:24 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Clothing Mistakes To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 49 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Panmela@aol.com In a message dated 99-12-10 20:04:04 EST, you write: > I catch the bus with a lady who wears them soo short that when she sits > down, she is not actually sitting on her skirt! > And to top it off, she probably screams "harassment" if anyone happens to leer at her legs. As far as I'm concerned, if you don't want it stared at, don't advertise it. Just my 2.5 cents. Pamela D. ( who can't even think up her own snappy ending, but has to steal maggiess....rats!!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Dec 12 21:34:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA32040 for ; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 21:34:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA07062; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 20:53:38 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA17626 for h-costume-nopost; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 20:53:26 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.36]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA17619 for ; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 20:53:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([63.26.189.20]) by mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19991213035254.GFYR5516@worldnet.att.net> for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 03:52:54 +0000 Message-ID: <38546DE0.D51E1665@worldnet.att.net> Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 19:54:08 -0800 From: don and carolyn richardson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-WNS5.0 (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Clothing Mistakes References: <6451453.944858841946.JavaMail.imail@patti.excite.com> <385169EF.6B69A697@serv.net> <003b01bf43ce$2e8bc8a0$f8d7f4d1@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: don and carolyn richardson > Another vote for the bustle. Most women think their butts are too big > already, why make it huge? Well, for starters - with that huge bustle hanging behind you (think 1880's) no one can tell exactly how BIG *your* butt really is. Like Albert says, no one really buys that that huge extension is really flesh any more than paniers or hoopskirts are. Can you imagine someone really being shaped like a hoop? Carolyn (avowed bustle lover) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Dec 12 21:35:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA32047 for ; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 21:35:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA07314; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 20:55:26 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA17884 for h-costume-nopost; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 20:55:04 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mx20.rmci.net (halcyon.rmci.net [205.162.184.63]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA17857 for ; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 20:54:57 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 8812 invoked from network); 13 Dec 1999 03:54:55 -0000 Received: from pag-di83.rica.net (HELO rica.net) (209.211.110.83) by halcyon.rmci.net with SMTP; 13 Dec 1999 03:54:55 -0000 Message-ID: <38546C8F.D9A7D71C@rica.net> Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 22:48:33 -0500 From: Jennie Chancey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: "Anna and the King" Costumes References: <19991028024646.39300.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Jennie Chancey We got to attend a sneak preview of this film last night, and the costumes were quite drool-worthy, particularly those for the Siamese king and his entourage. WOW! I loved Jodie Foster's outfits as well. The tailoring was superb, and it looked like she had on all the correct undergarments (you could tell she used two different corsets, and you could see her chemise and corset cover through some of the gowns). Her ballgown was a major drool, though it might have been a bit fanciful as far as fabric went--I'd have to see it again. Her day dresses and hats looked like they were lifted straight out of Godey's. The movie was very beautifully done, though the story was a little on the "mushy" side if you go in expecting a Yul Brenner type of king (bold, strident, stubborn, but fun). Still, the chemistry between Foster and Yun-Fat was tangible and bittersweet--if a little weird. If for no other reason, go to see the robe the king wears when he and his family are fleeing on the boat -- it's made of netting with fabulous gold braided trim in a dazzling design. Knocked my socks off. I'd imagine this film will be up for some Oscars in the design category (sets are splendid, too). Cheers, Jennie Chancey -- Sense and Sensibility http://www.sensibility.com winsome clothing with an old-fashioned appeal _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Dec 12 21:39:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA32060 for ; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 21:39:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA07646; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 20:58:36 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA18344 for h-costume-nopost; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 20:58:32 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.36]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA18334 for ; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 20:58:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([63.26.189.20]) by mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19991213035753.GHPV5516@worldnet.att.net> for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 03:57:53 +0000 Message-ID: <38546F0B.B5AE2ECA@worldnet.att.net> Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 19:59:07 -0800 From: don and carolyn richardson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-WNS5.0 (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Clothing Mistakes References: <0.585fc772.2583c36c@aol.com> <38526C65.9FB0FB7@polarcomm.com> <004801bf4410$c91008e0$af57fea9@gunsafes> <001401bf4424$8c171e60$0101a8c0@f1> <3854564C.F0B1B45C@rica.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: don and carolyn richardson Jennie Chancey wrote: > And what is it with the colors now? Everything in our "teens" or > "juniors" sections in the mall is fairly monochrome. Its either all > khakis and browns or it is all blacks and greys. Borrrr-ing. Weird - they just opened a new "Limited Too" store in the mall near my office and everything there is either orange, bright yellow, hot pink or lime green. *Not* an improvement over browns, blacks and khakis, IMO. The place looks like a fruit stand gone amok. My fashion peeve - TATOOS and body piercing. They look bad on men or women - particularly as you get older. I occasionally want to ask people who have those tatoo necklaces done what they think it will look like when they're 70 . At least piercing will grow back if you let it. Carolyn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Dec 12 21:54:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA32097 for ; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 21:54:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA09358; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 21:14:23 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA20803 for h-costume-nopost; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 21:14:15 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from wilma.widomaker.com (smtp@wilma.widomaker.com [204.17.220.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA20782 for ; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 21:14:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.96.179.152] by wilma.widomaker.com with smtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for h-costume@indra.com id 11xMsE-0002Bw-00; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 23:14:10 -0500 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19991213041027.00a67978@widomaker.com> X-Sender: rcarnegie@widomaker.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 23:10:27 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Ron Carnegie Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Clothing Mistakes Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Ron Carnegie At 07:59 PM 12/12/99 -0800, you wrote: > >-Poster: don and carolyn richardson > > > >Jennie Chancey wrote: > >> And what is it with the colors now? Everything in our "teens" or >> "juniors" sections in the mall is fairly monochrome. Its either all >> khakis and browns or it is all blacks and greys. Borrrr-ing. > >Weird - they just opened a new "Limited Too" store in the mall near my >office and everything there is either orange, bright yellow, hot pink or >lime green. *Not* an improvement over browns, blacks and khakis, IMO. >The place looks like a fruit stand gone amok. > I was wondering about that to. A huge number of school kids come through where I work, and I though bright colours seemed most typical. Cheers, Ron Carnegie rcarnegie@widomaker.com ************************************************* "The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground walked other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow." G.M. Trevelyan ************************************************* _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Dec 12 22:14:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA32161 for ; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 22:14:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA10997; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 21:33:40 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA23555 for h-costume-nopost; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 21:33:28 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.61]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA23515 for ; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 21:33:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from 207-172-124-58.s281.tnt6.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com ([207.172.124.58] helo=e4c2n6) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #3) id 11xNAI-0007hm-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 23:32:51 -0500 Message-ID: <002101bf4523$06727700$3a7caccf@e4c2n6> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <0.585fc772.2583c36c@aol.com> <38526C65.9FB0FB7@polarcomm.com> <004801bf4410$c91008e0$af57fea9@gunsafes> <001401bf4424$8c171e60$0101a8c0@f1> <3854564C.F0B1B45C@rica.net> <38546F0B.B5AE2ECA@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Clothing Mistakes Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 23:32:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" Are you referring to those necklaces that look like tatoos? These are a stretchy plastic and choker length. I am around a lot of teenagers and haven't seen anyone with tatoos that look like a necklace. Later...Penny http://www.costumegallery.com > My fashion peeve - TATOOS and body piercing. They look bad on men or > women - particularly as you get older. I occasionally want to ask > people who have those tatoo necklaces done what they think it will look > like when they're 70 . At least piercing will grow back if you > let it. > > Carolyn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Dec 12 22:22:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA32196 for ; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 22:22:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA11798; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 21:41:58 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA24806 for h-costume-nopost; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 21:41:51 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from gate.garden.net (gate.tellurian.net [216.182.1.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA24798 for ; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 21:41:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from ouppc ([209.118.2.41]) by gate.garden.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 0-32330L200S2000) with SMTP id AAA210 for ; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 23:41:29 -0500 Message-ID: <002001bf4523$ee19bfa0$80f4fea9@ouppc> From: "Kerrie Lyons" To: References: <19991028024646.39300.qmail@hotmail.com> <38546C8F.D9A7D71C@rica.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: "Anna and the King" Costumes Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 23:38:39 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Kerrie Lyons" ----- Original Message ----- From: Jennie Chancey Sent: Sunday, December 12, 1999 10:48 PM > > We got to attend a sneak preview of this film last night, and the > costumes were quite drool-worthy, particularly those for the Siamese > king and his entourage. WOW! I loved Jodie Foster's outfits as well. Ooh, ooh, I'm glad you posted this Jennie! I'm sitting out here wrapping up my shopping online and it reminded me of something I wanted to pass along to everyone on the list. :-D If anyone is in the Philadelphia area....Lord and Taylor's downtown they're on Market St. I believe(?)) will be giving away free tickets to the movie tomorrow beginning at noon, and they'll have the actual ballgown on display at the store. =) I may try to waddle into the city for a peek if I can find a pair of shoes to fit my poor puffed up feet. ;-) Enjoy! Kerrie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Dec 12 22:22:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA32200 for ; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 22:22:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA11870; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 21:42:27 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA24882 for h-costume-nopost; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 21:42:23 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d09.mx.aol.com (imo-d09.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.41]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA24874 for ; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 21:42:21 -0700 (MST) From: M311@aol.com Received: from M311@aol.com by imo-d09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.81787450 (3847) for ; Sun, 12 Dec 1999 23:41:46 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.81787450.2585d30a@aol.com> Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 23:41:46 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Clothing Mistakes To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 38 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: M311@aol.com In a message dated 12/12/99 8:21:14 PM Central Standard Time, jchancey@rica.net writes: << Give me women in tailored dresses a la' Grace Kelley or men in linen or tweed suits a la' Cary Grant any day. >> Oh, now that was a good style period. I have AMC and love to watch the old movies for the fashion of them. I live in a country setting and jeans or sweats with t-shirts are the norm. People do dress up for Sunday Church though. Kelly m311@aol.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 13 02:00:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA32440 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 02:00:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA23940; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 01:17:19 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA20827 for h-costume-nopost; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 01:17:02 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA20822 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 01:17:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion ([63.27.113.185]) by mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with SMTP id <19991213081630.JZVW14377@pavilion> for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 08:16:30 +0000 From: "Connie Carroll" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: question regarding a picture Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 03:12:01 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19991212212017.009cb6f0@mail.interlog.com> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Connie Carroll" According to the description on page 228 it is embroidered with pearls. Kassandra -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On -Poster: Danielle Nunn At 06:58 11/12/99 -0500, you wrote: This is for anyone who has a copy of "20,000 Years of Fashion" by Boucher. The dress happens to be an Elizabethan era Italian dress, but it doesn't have to be your focus. Just look at the picture and give me your opinion. The picture is #466 (Laudonia de Medici by A. Bronzino)on page 230. It appears that their is some sort of trim at the sleeves and down the skirt. Normally I would have thought it was piping, but to me it looks like the line is broken at regular intervals. Does this look like beading to anyone else? Or what does it look like to you? Andrea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 13 02:00:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA32444 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 02:00:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA23937; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 01:17:19 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA20815 for h-costume-nopost; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 01:16:52 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA20809 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 01:16:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion ([63.27.113.185]) by mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with SMTP id <19991213081619.JZVR14377@pavilion> for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 08:16:19 +0000 From: "Connie Carroll" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: "Anna and the King" Costumes Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 03:11:51 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 In-Reply-To: <38546C8F.D9A7D71C@rica.net> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Connie Carroll" The King and his family fleeing??? This isn't the story I know. Kassandra -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Jennie Chancey -Poster: Jennie Chancey We got to attend a sneak preview of this film last night, and the costumes were quite drool-worthy, particularly those for the Siamese king and his entourage. Still, the chemistry between Foster and Yun-Fat was tangible and bittersweet--if a little weird. If for no other reason, go to see the robe the king wears when he and his family are fleeing on the boat -- it's made of netting with fabulous gold braided trim in a dazzling design. Knocked my socks off. I'd imagine this film will be up for some Oscars in the design category (sets are splendid, too). Cheers, Jennie Chancey -- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 13 02:07:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA04231 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 02:07:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA24465; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 01:24:42 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA21565 for h-costume-nopost; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 01:24:35 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA21559 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 01:24:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion ([63.27.113.185]) by mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with SMTP id <19991213082402.KALQ14377@pavilion> for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 08:24:02 +0000 From: "Connie Carroll" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Sumptuary Law violations-more specific Q Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 03:19:33 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 In-Reply-To: <0.264f868b.2585b4ec@aol.com> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Connie Carroll" If you find the reference could you post it please? I'm trying to look up some Sumptuary laws for that time. Kassandra -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On -Poster: Panmela@aol.com In a message dated 99-12-10 17:39:42 EST, you write: In 1600 you are at the end of Elizabeth I's reign. She attempted through various proclamations during her reign to enforce the sumptuary laws as laid out under the reign of her father and her sister Mary, who preceded her as Queen of England. While I am still looking for a specific reference, it is my memory that in England the penalty for breaking sumptuary laws were stiff fines paid to the crown. To what extent these laws would be applied to someone visiting or not, is another question. My references suggest that the law was very difficult to enforce, even on the English themselves. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 13 02:32:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA22251 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 02:32:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA25434; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 01:49:40 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA23701 for h-costume-nopost; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 01:49:30 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail12.svr.pol.co.uk (mail12.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.215]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA23689 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 01:49:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from modem-159.ocellaris-clown.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.48.159] helo=default) by mail12.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.11 #1) id 11xRAc-0004Z3-00 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 08:49:26 +0000 Message-ID: <00a701bf4548$30b085a0$9f30893e@default> From: "Joy Shillaker" To: Subject: H-COST: sumptuary laws. Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 08:57:42 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Joy Shillaker" Can't remember the source, but I read somewhere that the sumptuary laws in England (at least during Elizabeth's time) were just a form of indirect taxation. Wear what you chose and pay the fine. Sounds a bit like my girl's jeans day at school. Pay 50p and wear your jeans. bye Joy _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 13 05:19:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA05565 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 05:19:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA04846; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 04:36:31 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA07713 for h-costume-nopost; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 04:36:07 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA07702 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 04:36:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) id <01JJG90OB1S0001XI3@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 11:35:54 GMT Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.56.3]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) with ESMTP id <01JJG87SXADA00279A@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 10:54:23 +0000 (GMT) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); 13 Dec 99 10:51:37 GMT0BST Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44) ; 13 Dec 99 10:51:21 GMT0BST Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.126) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; 13 Dec 99 10:51:13 GMT0BST Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 10:51:13 +0000 (GMT) From: Teddy Subject: Re: H-COST: Clothing Mistakes In-reply-to: <199912102058.NAA19274@net.indra.com> To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: <61A0D94247@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Teddy > --Poster: StitchWitch > > What is your least favorite fashion frivolity? Mine is the c.1830's > American women's sleeves. They look to me like linebackers in lace! > And it made thier heads, to my eye, look way too tiny. Perhaps some > women can carry this look, but I sure can't! > > Kate Mine is those lateish 17th century petticoat-britches.... . On their own they are bad enough but with the huge puff of shirt between the waist of them and the bottom of the "doublet" they are simply horrible. Mind you, you never know what the "modern-eye" is going to interpret strangely. On Saturday, I was in a 1630's suit (the group I don English Civil War re-enactment with were having a get-together in a pub in Southend-on-Sea) and the landlady of the guest-house we were staying in asked if we were "in drag" - must have been the lace around mu collar and cuffs..... At least the people we encountered in the twon itself recognized the period enough to call out things like "All for one and one for all". Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of air and darkness, apparently!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 13 07:17:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA05834 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 07:17:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA10364; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 06:34:40 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA18780 for h-costume-nopost; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 06:34:11 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from polar.polarcomm.com (polar.polarcomm.com [207.70.247.33]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA18774 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 06:34:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from polarcomm.com (m316.polarcomm.com [209.74.88.192]) by polar.polarcomm.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA02956 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 07:36:48 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <3854F456.91870913@polarcomm.com> Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 07:27:50 -0600 From: Nic Deplazes X-Sender: "Nic Deplazes" <@mail.polarcomm.com> (Unverified) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-gatewaynet (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Clothing Mistakes References: <61A0D94247@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Nic Deplazes Now there is a nice period for clothing. Touche :) Nic Teddy wrote: > > -Poster: Teddy > > > --Poster: StitchWitch > > > > What is your least favorite fashion frivolity? Mine is the c.1830's > > American women's sleeves. They look to me like linebackers in lace! > > And it made thier heads, to my eye, look way too tiny. Perhaps some > > women can carry this look, but I sure can't! > > > > Kate > > Mine is those lateish 17th century petticoat-britches.... > . On their own they are bad enough but with the huge > puff of shirt between the waist of them and the bottom of the > "doublet" they are simply horrible. > > Mind you, you never know what the "modern-eye" is going to > interpret strangely. On Saturday, I was in a 1630's suit (the group I > don English Civil War re-enactment with were having a get-together > in a pub in Southend-on-Sea) and the landlady of the guest-house > we were staying in asked if we were "in drag" - must have been the > lace around mu collar and cuffs..... > > At least the people we encountered in the twon itself recognized > the period enough to call out things like "All for one and one for all". > > Teddy > (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of > air and darkness, apparently!) > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 13 07:39:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA05857 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 07:39:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA11785; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 06:58:46 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA21479 for h-costume-nopost; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 06:58:26 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ionet.net (root@mail.ionet.net [206.41.128.16]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA21453 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 06:58:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from buck (ip17.phoenix8.az.pub-ip.psi.net [38.29.61.17]) by ionet.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id HAA17137 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 07:58:22 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <003c01bf4572$3a2736e0$e53d1d26@buck> From: "Dean Quackenbush" To: References: <00a701bf4548$30b085a0$9f30893e@default> Subject: Re: H-COST: sumptuary laws. Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 06:50:52 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Dean Quackenbush" I loved this-thanks for sharing. > > -Poster: "Joy Shillaker" > > Can't remember the source, but I read somewhere that the sumptuary laws in > England (at least during Elizabeth's time) were just a form of indirect > taxation. Wear what you chose and pay the fine. Sounds a bit like my girl's > jeans day at school. Pay 50p and wear your jeans. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 13 07:40:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA05866 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 07:40:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA12023; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 07:00:16 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA21706 for h-costume-nopost; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 06:59:53 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mx20.rmci.net (halcyon.rmci.net [205.162.184.63]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA21699 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 06:59:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 2408 invoked from network); 13 Dec 1999 13:59:49 -0000 Received: from pag-di39.rica.net (HELO rica.net) (209.211.110.39) by halcyon.rmci.net with SMTP; 13 Dec 1999 13:59:49 -0000 Message-ID: <3854FA51.E21F9579@rica.net> Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 08:53:22 -0500 From: Jennie Chancey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: "Anna and the King" Costumes References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Jennie Chancey The story has been altered a bit, as you will see! Quite different from Anna Leonowens' diaries.... But the costumes are still fabulous! ;-) Connie Carroll wrote: > -Poster: "Connie Carroll" > > The King and his family fleeing??? This isn't the story I know. > > Kassandra > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Jennie Chancey > > -Poster: Jennie Chancey > > We got to attend a sneak preview of this film last night, and the > costumes were quite drool-worthy, particularly those for the Siamese > king and his entourage. Still, the chemistry between > Foster and Yun-Fat was tangible and bittersweet--if a little weird. If > for no other reason, go to see the robe the king wears when he and his > family are fleeing on the boat -- it's made of netting with fabulous > gold braided trim in a dazzling design. Knocked my socks off. I'd > imagine this film will be up for some Oscars in the design category > (sets are splendid, too). > > Cheers, > Jennie Chancey > -- > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME -- Sense and Sensibility http://www.sensibility.com winsome clothing with an old-fashioned appeal _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 13 07:40:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA05870 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 07:40:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA12026; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 07:00:16 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA21795 for h-costume-nopost; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 07:00:09 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.49]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA21785 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 07:00:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (dialup-209.244.85.171.Washington2.Level3.net [209.244.85.171]) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA14928 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 06:00:06 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <009101bf4574$1343da40$ab55f4d1@pavilion> From: "Andrea Gideon" To: References: <3.0.1.32.19991212212017.009cb6f0@mail.interlog.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: question regarding a picture Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 09:12:21 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Andrea Gideon" > Greetings, > > I always thought that the trim was a slashed piping for lack of a better > description. Kind of like what you see along the neckline of Elizabeth's > "phoniex portrait." A woman I know reproduced the the Phoenix gown and > what she did was used lots of little tabs of ribbon. It was labour > intensive but worked well. > > Does anyone know of a larger colour copy of the portrait in Boucher? > > Cheers, > Danielle > Just out of curiousity, do you know what kind and what size ribbon? I'm still in the planning stage for this dress. BTW, I've been doing an extensive search all week to find a color photo. I've found nothing on the WWW and the only books of his work are out of print. The only picture by him that I've found in various Florentine art books is the one of Leanora of Toledo, Most of his work is displayed in the Uffizi, but this one is in a tiny museum. My sister, who did a semester in Florence, had never heard of it. Some time this week I will try to hit the local University library. Andrea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 13 07:45:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA05878 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 07:45:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA12393; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 07:04:07 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA22403 for h-costume-nopost; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 07:03:57 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ionet.net (root@mail.ionet.net [206.41.128.16]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA22392 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 07:03:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from buck (ip17.phoenix8.az.pub-ip.psi.net [38.29.61.17]) by ionet.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA22260 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 08:03:53 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <004001bf4573$00ada9c0$e53d1d26@buck> From: "Dean Quackenbush" To: References: Subject: H-COST: Sumptuary Law Ref: was Sumptuary Law violations-more specific Q Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 07:04:39 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Dean Quackenbush" This is what I have found-I have the first one on my Christmas wish list, it looks the most comprehensive. This is from Amazon.com. Governance of the Consuming Passions : A History of Sumptuary Law Alan Hunt / Hardcover / Published 1996 Our Price: $59.95 Sumptuary Legislation and Personal Regulation in England Frances E. Baldwin / Hardcover / Published 1994 Our Price: $24.50 Costume and conduct in the laws of Basel, Bern, and Zurich, 1370-1800 John Martin Vincent > > If you find the reference could you post it please? I'm trying to look up > some Sumptuary laws for that time. > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 13 08:51:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA05986 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 08:51:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA17825; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 08:09:37 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA04831 for h-costume-nopost; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 08:09:12 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo28.mx.aol.com (imo28.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.72]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA04814 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 08:09:09 -0700 (MST) From: Gaelscot@aol.com Received: from Gaelscot@aol.com by imo28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.fb234155 (3990) for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 10:08:31 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.fb234155.258665ee@aol.com> Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 10:08:30 EST Subject: H-COST: Re: bustles To: h-costume-digest@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com I like bustles too. They don't make the behind look big -- they make the waist look small. I think they look(ed) great on large women! Gail Finke _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 13 10:34:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06195 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 10:34:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA01288; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 09:52:05 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA01711 for h-costume-nopost; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 09:51:32 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from gigi.excite.com ([199.172.152.110]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA01697 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 09:51:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from slippery ([199.172.153.106]) by kuku.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP id <19991213164953.GKYE19682.kuku.excite.com@slippery> for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 08:49:53 -0800 Message-ID: <17413457.945103793380.JavaMail.imail@slippery> Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 08:49:53 -0800 (PST) From: StitchWitch To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Clothing Mistakes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 144.163.130.106 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: StitchWitch > > > A question for y'all: What is your least favorite fashion frivolity? > > > One vote for the huge wigs just prior to the French revolution. > Another vote for tri-corn or bi-corn men's hats. > Another vote for the bustle. Most women think their butts are too big > already, why make it huge? Another fashion error I had nearly forgotten about is the engraving I saw of a court dress, empire waist with panne(sp?), which strongly resembled wearing a twinbed mattress, sideways. It took me several minutes to recover myself, I was laughing so hard. Kate ---- StitchWitch Unseen in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove. - P.G. Wodehouse, 1930 _______________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 13 10:59:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06224 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 10:59:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA05858; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 10:18:52 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA11056 for h-costume-nopost; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 10:18:37 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bigred.unl.edu (00217146@bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA11042 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 10:18:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (00217146@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA16066 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 11:23:37 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 11:23:36 -0600 (CST) From: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Clothing Mistakes In-Reply-To: <38529C16.872A85CA@post12.tele.dk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> > > Now THESE were mistakes! [like the torn up, full o' holes knits of the late > > 1980s or the "grunge look"] and blessedly didn't last long at all. [also like > > the torn up, full o' holes knits of the late 1980s or the "grunge look"] Now, hang on! I liked the grunge look! It meant I really could wear clothes from my bedroom floor to school, and didn't even necessarily have to brush my hair! (okay, so maybe not the look, but the benefits of it...) Emma _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 13 11:03:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06236 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 11:03:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06817; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 10:23:01 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA12585 for h-costume-nopost; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 10:22:50 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA12571 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 10:22:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r9p37.directcon.net [206.170.184.136]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA22023 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 09:22:35 -0800 Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 09:22:35 -0800 Message-Id: <199912131722.JAA22023@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: question regarding a picture Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson A woman I know reproduced the the Phoenix gown and >> what she did was used lots of little tabs of ribbon. It was labour >> intensive but worked well. >> >> >Just out of curiousity, do you know what kind and what size ribbon? I'm >still in the planning stage for this dress. > The Phoenix portrait shows the tabs around the neckline as aproximately 1" wide, with a narrow gold edging on each edge. they appear to be of the same fabric as the dress. You could use ribbon, but self fabric tubes with applied trim would also work and would probably be more appropriate. I don't find tabs to be extremely time consuming, especially within the overall context of the project. I usually make up the tab material in long strips and cut it to size after. For slashed piping, I use bias strips and apply it like ordinary piping, but without the cording. Sometimes I use bias folds stitched on top of the fabric, rather than inserted into a seam. This is good when using it as applied trim, such as multiple rows around a sleeve cuff or on an overskirt. I slash it with scissors after it's sewn on. Taffeta, silk, tightly woven cotten, and other firm fabrics work well. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 13 11:07:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06256 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 11:07:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA07232; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 10:25:51 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA13577 for h-costume-nopost; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 10:25:39 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA13560 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 10:25:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r9p37.directcon.net [206.170.184.136]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA22458 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 09:25:25 -0800 Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 09:25:25 -0800 Message-Id: <199912131725.JAA22458@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Clothing Mistakes Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson In my opinion, the hands down ugliest fashion is that worn by those Spanish Infantas in the 17th centuy; 6' wide panniered skirt that makd them look like sofas, long waisted flatly corseted torso, and frizzed out hair with a dog-show contest ribbon tacked on the side. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 13 11:32:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06361 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 11:32:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA10596; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 10:50:38 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA21255 for h-costume-nopost; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 10:50:18 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mailhub.iastate.edu (mailhub.iastate.edu [129.186.1.102]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA21223 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 10:50:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from H59013.iastate.edu (costumes.center.iastate.edu [129.186.127.4]) by mailhub.iastate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA29432 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 11:50:05 -0600 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19991213114327.00a48240@djnash.mail.iastate.edu> X-Sender: djnash@djnash.mail.iastate.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 11:50:04 -0600 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Doris J Nash Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: ugly fashion frivolities In-Reply-To: <0.b6567a28.25831048@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Doris J Nash At 09:26 PM 12/10/99 -0500, you wrote: >-Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com > > > >The thing I can't stand is those Napoleon era men's collars that covered >men's chins. I've seen a few in movies that made me think, "Oh -- so THAT was >the idea." But I bet they were mostly hideous, like stretch pants so often >are today. But to each his own -- I like those 1830s sleeves! > >Gail Finke Speaking of the 1830s sleeves--I caught part of "Les Miserables", the movie with Liam Neeson & Geoffrey Rush, and the sleeves on some of those dresses weren't as large as the fashion illustrations portray them to be. I started to wonder if the illustrators of that time (and any others) exaggerated proportions of certain details or body areas, i. e. the illustrators of today elongating the legs to get a more slender, taller look. Could those sleeves have been exaggerated in the same way? And what would that mean for the accuracy of those sources? Just musing out loud--it's Finals Week here, Doris Doris Nash Ames, IA Feed hungry children around the world--free! Visit http://thehungersite.com to find out how. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 13 12:09:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA06430 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 12:09:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA16373; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 11:27:36 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA02618 for h-costume-nopost; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 11:27:07 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com (imo14.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02603 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 11:27:04 -0700 (MST) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.54aa33e5 (4229) for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 13:26:19 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.54aa33e5.2586944b@aol.com> Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 13:26:19 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: "Anna and the King" Costumes To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 45 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com In a message dated 12/12/1999 7:55:54 PM Pacific Standard Time, jchancey@rica.net writes: << Her ballgown was a major drool, though it might have been a bit fanciful as far as fabric went--I'd have to see it again. >> I've only seen clips, but it (the ballgown) looked almost too youthful to me. I'm guessing it didn't come across that way when given a better look. Also, was it just me, or does Jodie Foster have the worst fake British accent of all time in that film? angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes Theatrical Costume & Clothing Design "All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players. They have their exits and their entrances; and one man in his time plays many parts." W. Shakespeare QUICK-LINK: http://come.to/costumes FULL URL: http://sj.znet.com/~thespian/angil/index.html _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 13 14:13:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06774 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 14:13:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA04520; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 13:25:27 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA05196 for h-costume-nopost; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 13:24:54 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from scl-ims.phoenix.com (scl-ims.phoenix.com [134.122.1.73] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA05173 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 13:24:51 -0700 (MST) Received: by scl-ims.phoenix.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 12:23:06 -0800 Message-ID: <1F176F2C2977D311B3300090270E63784D26E9@scl-exch.phoenix.com> From: Cynthia Barnes To: "H-Costume (E-mail)" Subject: H-COST: Icelandic Nepalese Sherpa Socks Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 12:23:20 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cynthia Barnes This is too silly not to share w/ an appreciative audience. I found a pair of "Icelandic Nepalese Sherpa Socks" listed on REI's website. So what I wanna know, is how the sherpas got from Iceland to Nepal. http://www.rei.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=46351&prmenbr=8 000 --cin Cynthia Barnes 408.570.1023 Cynthia_Barnes@phoenix.com Phoenix Technologies 411 E. Plumeria Dr. San Jose CA 95134 "I think animal testing is a terrible idea; they get all nervous and give the wrong answers." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 13 14:38:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06820 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 14:38:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA08733; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 13:57:53 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA14708 for h-costume-nopost; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 13:57:34 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law-f143.hotmail.com [209.185.131.206]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA14677 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 13:57:31 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 17970 invoked by uid 0); 13 Dec 1999 20:57:00 -0000 Message-ID: <19991213205700.17969.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 208.156.3.115 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 12:56:59 PST X-Originating-IP: [208.156.3.115] From: "Susannah Eanes" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: 2 Inventories! Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 12:56:59 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Susannah Eanes" Please excuse the list posting --there were too many to write back to individually -- Hi guys, Since most of you who wrote me about receiving my Year-End Inventory list prefer receiving the list in the body of an e-mail (not as an attachment), please look for an e-mail tonight from me --but I will be sending it from work, so it will be from a different e-mail address --I will put "Year-End Inventory" in the subject line. I need to do it this way to save time --I'll be sending it out to everyone at once, directly to the e-mail address they gave me. If anyone else is interested, I will continue to do the same over the next few days until everyone has been replied to. btw, I *am* responding individually to everyone who is interested in the Old Store Stock (the other inventory sale I am involved with!), and I still have alot to respond to. Bear with me, I promise you will hear from me very soon. Thanks, everyone for your interest! Susannah >From: "Susannah Eanes" >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: H-COST: getting rid of year-end Inventory >Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 15:32:55 PST > > >-Poster: "Susannah Eanes" > >Hi guys, >I have several items that I am willing to part with for about 1/2 of the >regular price, including mostly women's 18th century work clothing, >infants' >items, a few pairs of 18th c. women's shoes, and other basics. If anyone >is >interested in perusing the list of items for sale, please e-mail me >privately. I will send a list back directly to you as an attachment (or if >your e-mail provider does not like attachments, let me know and I will copy >it directly into the body of the e-mail). I would like to get rid of >everything I can before the end of the year because in Virginia I have to >pay tax on unsold items in my business inventory. > >Thanks, >Susannah > >"We are only the trustees for those who come after us." > --William Morris > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com >_________________________________________________________________ >To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com >with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 13 14:54:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06829 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 14:54:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA10817; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 14:11:59 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA18687 for h-costume-nopost; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 14:11:39 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA18662 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 14:11:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from mercury.physics.adelaide.edu.au (mercury [129.127.36.44]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id HAA01471 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 07:41:27 +1030 (CST) Received: from localhost by mercury.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.65v4.0/1.1.19.2/16Nov99-0332PM) id AA21432; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 07:41:27 +1030 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 07:41:25 +1030 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: "Anna and the King" Costumes In-Reply-To: <0.54aa33e5.2586944b@aol.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Mon, 13 Dec 1999 MzScahlett@aol.com wrote: > > -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com > > In a message dated 12/12/1999 7:55:54 PM Pacific Standard Time, > jchancey@rica.net writes: > << Her ballgown was a major drool, though it might have been a bit fanciful > as > far as fabric went--I'd have to see it again. >> > I've only seen clips, but it (the ballgown) looked almost too youthful to me. > I'm guessing it didn't come across that way when given a better look. Also, > was it just me, or does Jodie Foster have the worst fake British accent of > all time in that film? > Nope. Mary Poppins was on here the other night. I think that honour must surely go to Dick Van Dyck (sp?). OT I realise.... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 13 15:22:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA06879 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 15:22:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA15350; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 14:40:19 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA28285 for h-costume-nopost; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 14:39:36 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web2103.mail.yahoo.com (web2103.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.247]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA28240 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 14:39:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 17747 invoked by uid 60001); 13 Dec 1999 21:39:32 -0000 Message-ID: <19991213213932.17746.qmail@web2103.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.21.253.227] by web2103.mail.yahoo.com; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 13:39:32 PST Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 13:39:32 -0800 (PST) From: Kristen Morgaine Sieber Subject: H-COST: New Italian Ren. fan To: Historic Costume , SCA-Garb list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kristen Morgaine Sieber As as usually 14th-15th Century Anglo-Norman, I just made and wore my first Italian Ren garb (actually, the first garb I have ever personally made!). It was not strictly period; it was the Simplicity "Ever After" pattern, but I fell in love with the full skirt, high waist, and low neck (great for the "fuller" body type and complemented one of my few good features!). Now I need directions to good books, web sites, movies, etc! I have "Ever After" and Zeferelli's "Romeo and Juliet". I don't need "strict" authenticity--just so it looks pretty good. Thanks. ===== Morgaine of Glastonbury Barony of Aquaterra MoAS Kingdom of An Tir lady_gawain@yahoo.com Don't take your organs to Heaven; Heaven knows we need them here. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 13 16:00:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA06996 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 16:00:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA20150; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 15:14:25 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA11489 for h-costume-nopost; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 15:13:13 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA11450 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 15:13:08 -0700 (MST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.f9af781c (4461) for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 17:12:34 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.f9af781c.2586c951@aol.com> Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 17:12:33 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Clothing Mistakes To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 44 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 12/13/1999 12:28:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, margo@directcon.net writes: << In my opinion, the hands down ugliest fashion is that worn by those Spanish Infantas in the 17th centuy; >> See....I love the Infanta's outfits! I mean she ain't gonna be playing hop scotch in it. She IS the Infanta after all. Court clothes have a special purpose and, like haut couture [sp] need not follow any practical rules. It's for a kind of effect that's perhaps hard for us to understand today. Anyway the Infanta's stuff....like Queen Elizabeth in a French farthingale the size of a tractor tire, low low pointed bodice, heart shaped collar the size of Virginia, and her ankles showing, works for some reason. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 13 17:19:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA07220 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 17:19:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA07125; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 16:36:59 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA05433 for h-costume-nopost; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 16:36:22 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from one.net.au (lightblue.one.net.au [203.101.17.165]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA05419 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 16:36:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 19953 invoked from network); 13 Dec 1999 23:34:14 -0000 Received: from async64-bri-isp-5.nas.one.net.au (HELO pbncomputer) (203.101.61.65) by lightblue.one.net.au with SMTP; 13 Dec 1999 23:34:14 -0000 From: "Megan McConnell" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Re: ugly fashion frivolities Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 09:36:32 +1100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.19991213114327.00a48240@djnash.mail.iastate.edu> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Megan McConnell" > I started to wonder if the illustrators of that time (and any others) > exaggerated proportions of certain details or body areas, i. e. the > illustrators of today elongating the legs to get a more slender, taller > look. Could those sleeves have been exaggerated in the same way? > And what would that mean for the accuracy of those sources? >From my research, I know that the piccys were exaggerated. The sleeves were big - but not that big! A great book for research on that type of sleeve is "Costume in Detail - Womens Dress 1730-1930" by Nancy Bradfield. She was the costume curator at one of the English costume galleries (Chasleton House - I think - can't remember) and had access to a number of actual garments. In the book, it is all technical drawings (including some measurements) of these garments. The main idea behind those sleeves was to make the waist look smaller - and if you look at a lot of illustrations of that period (and of Regency immediately before) you will see that the proportions are obviously exaggerated (for the Regency stuff - look at the men especially). One of my fave drawings of the time shows a woman with "gigot" sleeves so big that the total width would have been about the same as her height - and with a waist so small that she looked like she would snap in two! Much the same effect as a Barbie Doll! Unfortunately, fashion illustrators tended to exaggerate (and still do) the human form - as their main idea was to show the clothing. A good book with lots and lots of fashion illustrations is "The File Art of Fashion- An Illustrated History" by Julian Robinson (Bay Books - ISBN 1 86256 3020). All the illustrations in it were taken out of actual fashion books, and posters of the time - and it goes right up to the 70's (goes to show that the age of the colour photo didn't stop illustrators after all) They are good as sources - but you would have to translate things into "real life" - just as one has to do with a number of costume books. Have a terrific Day Megan Visit my website: http://hercountry.com/gentlearts/ ICQ # 57164109 Yahoo Messageing: madilayn Visit D'Realm of the Fairies: http://www.thesitefights.com/fairies Do you fight? http://www.thesitefighs.com > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 13 17:19:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA07224 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 17:19:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA07103; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 16:36:52 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA05448 for h-costume-nopost; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 16:36:26 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from one.net.au (lightblue.one.net.au [203.101.17.165]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA05436 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 16:36:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 20091 invoked from network); 13 Dec 1999 23:34:30 -0000 Received: from async64-bri-isp-5.nas.one.net.au (HELO pbncomputer) (203.101.61.65) by lightblue.one.net.au with SMTP; 13 Dec 1999 23:34:30 -0000 From: "Megan McConnell" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Queen Elizabeth's Effigy Corset? Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 09:36:45 +1100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Megan McConnell" Sorry to take so long to get back re this one. In Nancy Bradfield's book "Costume in Detail" , she has a photo of the effify of QEI from the '30's whilst it was being cleaned. She makes note that the side hoops are from 1760, which was the last time that the effigy was cleaned and re-dressed. Hope that this helps. Have a terrific Day Megan Visit my website: http://hercountry.com/gentlearts/ ICQ # 57164109 Yahoo Messageing: madilayn Visit D'Realm of the Fairies: http://www.thesitefights.com/fairies Do you fight? http://www.thesitefighs.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 13 17:54:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA07264 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 17:54:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA11828; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 17:13:00 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA14994 for h-costume-nopost; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 17:12:45 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtpa.gateway.net (relayf.gateway.net [208.230.117.254] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA14968 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 17:12:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from oemcomputer (1Cust165.tnt3.princess-anne.va.da.uu.net [63.23.230.165]) by smtpa.gateway.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA06494 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 19:12:37 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002501bf45c8$5099dda0$a5e6173f@oemcomputer> From: "Joel Thompson" To: "costume" Subject: H-COST: 13c buttons Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 19:15:21 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id RAA14974 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Joel Thompson" I am about to start on my next project.....a blue velvet cotehardie. I want to use silver buttons up the sleeves, and I need to know what kind of buttonhole was used. Were they like our modern "shirtfront" style, or were they the loop kind, or perhaps something else? This gown is going to be very special, so I want it to be right. TIA Linda _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 13 17:58:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA07268 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 17:58:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA12959; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 17:18:20 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA16315 for h-costume-nopost; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 17:18:17 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA16304 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 17:18:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA29153 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 16:18:39 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <38558D13.3834F712@serv.net> Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 16:19:32 -0800 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 13c buttons References: <002501bf45c8$5099dda0$a5e6173f@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > I am about to start on my next project.....a blue velvet cotehardie. I want to use silver buttons up the sleeves, and I need to know what kind of buttonhole was used. Were they like our modern "shirtfront" style, or were they the loop kind, or perhaps something else? This gown is going to be very special, so I want it to be right. The button holes were regular buttonholes sewn using the button hole stitch. At this time, they didn't have the rounded edge at each end. Just a row of buttonhold stitch on each side of the cut. And FWIW, your gown is 14th century. :) I love blue velvet, sounds gorgeous. Is it cotton or acetate? That determines whether or not you cut the holes before or after you stitch them simply because the acetate ravels easily. Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of AnTir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 13 19:39:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA07377 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 19:39:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA26795; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 18:58:48 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA12085 for h-costume-nopost; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 18:58:26 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from eclipse.pacifier.com (eclipse.pacifier.com [199.2.117.78]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA12078 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 18:58:25 -0700 (MST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: from grendal2 (ip129.van22.pacifier.com [216.65.138.129]) by eclipse.pacifier.com (8.9.3/8.9.3pop) with SMTP id RAA17060 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 17:58:14 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199912140158.RAA17060@eclipse.pacifier.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 18:01:54 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: H-COST: Queen Elizabeth's Effigy Corset? Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > In Nancy Bradfield's book "Costume in Detail" , she has a photo of the > effify of QEI from the '30's whilst it was being cleaned. > > She makes note that the side hoops are from 1760, which was the last time > that the effigy was cleaned and re-dressed. While the hoops are from the 18th Century, the corset is from the early 17th C (contemporary with Elizabeth's death.) There is an article in a journal at the Westminster Abbey Library which discusses this. As Drea mentioned, Janet Arnold had something to do with it. However, I no longer have a copy of it that I can find and was unable to find a replacement copy the time to go to the WA Library when I was there. We didn't have time the day we went and it was closed when we went to do photography (as that is only allowed for a short period on Wednesday evenings.) If one of our lucky Londoners could go find the article, I'm sure a number of us would be appreciative. (If I had the information on which journal it was in, with the date and page number, I could probably request a copy for study, as could Drea.) Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 13 20:58:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA07505 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 20:58:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA03853; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 20:17:40 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA25517 for h-costume-nopost; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 20:17:12 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from pop03.ex-pressnet.com ([24.239.0.10]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA25507 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 20:17:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from alt1 ([24.239.14.77]) by pop03.ex-pressnet.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.117.11); Mon, 13 Dec 1999 22:10:21 -0500 From: "Allison Thurman" To: Subject: H-COST: re: clothing mistakes Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 22:15:05 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Allison Thurman" Jennie Chancey wrote: > And what is it with the colors now? Everything in our "teens" or > "juniors" sections in the mall is fairly monochrome. Its either all > khakis and browns or it is all blacks and greys. Borrrr-ing. Weird - they just opened a new "Limited Too" store in the mall near my office and everything there is either orange, bright yellow, hot pink or lime green. *Not* an improvement over browns, blacks and khakis, IMO. The place looks like a fruit stand gone amok. >>Having been a teenager in the late 80's i remember everything being brightly colored and very complicated (i.e., polka dots, trim, lace where it ought not to be) and it was a RELIEF for me when everything went black in the early-mid '90s. i still love that simple uncluttered look. My fashion peeve - TATOOS and body piercing. They look bad on men or women - particularly as you get older. I occasionally want to ask people who have those tatoo necklaces done what they think it will look like when they're 70 . At least piercing will grow back if you let it. >>this is a peeve of mine if folks are doing it for FASHION purposes. as a multiple piercee i can tell you that even though they can grow back together they do leave scars so its best NOT to plan on it being a temporary "fashion" thing. as for when im 70 - they are for me and me alone. i'll only take them out if they cause pain or if i look HIDEOUS. or maybe i'll show them off just to scare everyone ;) re: tattoos - i think the look is more popular than the reality. this explains the plastic "tattoo" chokers and the popularity of mehindi (henna body painting). allison Carolyn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 13 21:01:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA07522 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 21:01:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA04400; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 20:21:02 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA26108 for h-costume-nopost; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 20:20:57 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA26097 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 20:20:53 -0700 (MST) From: Gaelscot@aol.com Received: from Gaelscot@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.817fdd38 (3991) for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 22:20:15 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.817fdd38.2587116f@aol.com> Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 22:20:15 EST Subject: H-COST: Re: The King and I To: h-costume-digest@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com RE: The King and I . . . or whatever they're calling it. They may have altered the story for the Jodie Foster pic, but they can't have altered it as much as they altered the musical for the cartoon film that was out this summer. From what I recall of the reviews, there were ninja-type bad guys, there was a chase in a hot air balloon, and there was only one son (a martial arts master sort of guy). The king and Anna got married, for all I know. I just couldn't bear to see it. I wish people would just make up stories. Oops, wasn't that what the REAL Anna was supposed to have done? Dying to see the costumes in this one! Gail Finke _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 13 21:32:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA07576 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 21:32:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA07156; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 20:52:00 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA01282 for h-costume-nopost; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 20:51:36 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mtiwmhc08.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc08.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.19]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA01273 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 20:51:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([63.28.116.91]) by mtiwmhc08.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19991214035101.PDLP28505@worldnet.att.net> for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 03:51:01 +0000 Message-ID: <3855BEED.F4245965@worldnet.att.net> Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 19:52:13 -0800 From: don and carolyn richardson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-WNS5.0 (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: New Italian Ren. fan References: <19991213213932.17746.qmail@web2103.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: don and carolyn richardson Kristen Morgaine Sieber wrote: > > -Poster: Kristen Morgaine Sieber > > As as usually 14th-15th Century Anglo-Norman, I just > made and wore my first Italian Ren garb (actually, the > first garb I have ever personally made!). It was not > strictly period; it was the Simplicity "Ever After" > pattern, but I fell in love with the full skirt, high > waist, and low neck (great for the "fuller" body type > and complemented one of my few good features!). Now I > need directions to good books, web sites, movies, etc! > I have "Ever After" and Zeferelli's "Romeo and > Juliet". I don't need "strict" authenticity--just so > it looks pretty good. Thanks. There's not much I can recommend in the movie category (although my personal favorite is Zefferelli's "Taming of the Shrew", but the background costumes are better than the star's). "Dangerous Beauty" has some good costumes on the background players as well but ignore what the prostitutes are wearing. Books - the best ones I can think of currently in print are the 2 volumes on Italian Ren frescoes. They're big and pricy but gorgeously illustrated. For cheaper books, try finding the Riverside series on various artists - I can recommend the one on Carpaccio. There's also a good book out called "Renaissance Portraits" by Lorne Campbell that has some nice stuff (I've made the red dress on the jacket cover that was painted by Raphael). Carolyn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 13 22:36:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA07667 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 22:36:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA12807; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 21:55:49 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA11475 for h-costume-nopost; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 21:55:28 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from gti.net (apollo.gti.net [199.171.27.7]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA11466 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 21:55:26 -0700 (MST) From: martyr@gti.net Received: from gti.net (morr0610.gti.net [208.216.122.10]) by gti.net (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA13447 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 23:55:28 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3855CE23.51EB04F9@gti.net> Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 23:57:08 -0500 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: re: clothing mistakes References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: martyr@gti.net Um, ok, I have both piercings & tattoos. Have had them since the '80s days of polka dots. Why exactly does that peeve you? It's a personal statement. The fact that it's permanent IS the statement. I think the all-black uniform is very convenient for those who aren't confident of their color-combining skills. How is this related to historic costume? I'm sorry but, this is beginning to be really OT. ~Lisa i still love that simple uncluttered look. > > My fashion peeve - TATOOS and body piercing. They look bad on men or > women - particularly as you get older. I occasionally want to ask > people who have those tatoo necklaces done what they think it will look > like when they're 70 . At least piercing will grow back if you > let it. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Dec 13 23:05:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA07747 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 23:05:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA14952; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 22:25:15 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA16733 for h-costume-nopost; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 22:25:07 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from Herb-Lore.com (mail.herb-lore.com [209.141.89.62]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA16719 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 22:25:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from heather [207.204.223.223] by Herb-Lore.com (SMTPD32-5.05) id A2B118A70128; Mon, 13 Dec 1999 22:24:49 -0700 Message-ID: <000801bf45fb$f01b6be0$0101a8c0@heather> From: "Heather" To: References: <3855CE23.51EB04F9@gti.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: clothing mistakes Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 22:24:54 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Heather" Has anyone else noticed that most of the peeves are from the last 20 years or so? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 02:55:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA13402 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 02:55:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA28695; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 02:09:28 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA13326 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 02:09:00 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA13319 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 02:08:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.136] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11xnx1-0000K5-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 01:08:56 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19991213035446.00b8def0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 04:31:57 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: H-COST: Re: Clothing Mistakes - several replies In-Reply-To: <001401bf4424$8c171e60$0101a8c0@f1> References: <0.585fc772.2583c36c@aol.com> <38526C65.9FB0FB7@polarcomm.com> <004801bf4410$c91008e0$af57fea9@gunsafes> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >> A question for y'all: What is your least favorite fashion frivolity? Symmetrical shoes. My big toe is the longest, so why is the pointy part adjacent to my middle toe? And why do shoes have to be pointy in the first place? And, since this is the 90's, why do shoes have to be so narrow? And non-repairable, but so cheaply built they need repair soon after you buy them? snip >I can't stand this style personally. Doesn't it make you want to walk up to >these kids and just pull their pants down?! No - up! snip Can you imagine someone really >being shaped like a hoop? I know a couple of women shaped like bum rolls. In bum-roll-period dresses they look splendid, but in modern clothes they look unfortunately butt-heavy. snip >My fashion peeve - TATOOS and body piercing. They look bad on men or >women - particularly as you get older. If one wears sunscreen, the tattoos don't fade or get blurry. If one takes care of one's skin, it doesn't get wrinkly or sun-damaged and it, or anything on it, looks better longer. I had to choose the position of my first tattoo very carefully so I could do Victorian eveningwear without it showing. Likewise, any piercing I have has to pass costume approval anywhere I do living history - by not showing when I am historically dressed. Some tattoos/piercings makes one look, as the Victorians would say, like 'mutton dressed as lamb'. Some are things only a kid would do. Others are less inappropriate for us older folks. For example, my teenager is contemplating getting her lip pierced, trendy for that age group, but her friends all think my pierced eyebrow is 'cool'. snip >> > Now THESE were mistakes! [like the torn up, full o' holes knits of the late >> > 1980s or the "grunge look"] and blessedly didn't last long at all. [also >like >> > the torn up, full o' holes knits of the late 1980s or the "grunge look"] > >Now, hang on! I liked the grunge look! It meant I really could wear >clothes from my bedroom floor to school, and didn't even necessarily have >to brush my hair! > >(okay, so maybe not the look, but the benefits of it...) Somebody making fun of Hippies again? I thought we invented the ripped jeans look. Or maybe it was the Landsknechts in the early 1500's, who also invented tops slashed full of holes. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 05:04:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA13583 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 05:04:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA04156; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 04:22:18 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA24266 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 04:21:38 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA24261 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 04:21:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) id <01JJHNEOJ6HC0031RV@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 11:21:28 GMT Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.56.3]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) with ESMTP id <01JJHNEGYDNK000VIW@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 11:20:27 +0000 (GMT) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); 14 Dec 99 11:17:38 GMT0BST Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44) ; 14 Dec 99 11:17:25 GMT0BST Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.126) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; 14 Dec 99 11:17:22 GMT0BST Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 11:17:22 +0000 (GMT) From: Teddy Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Clothing Mistakes In-reply-to: <199912132213.PAA11636@net.indra.com> To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: <7A10B95079@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Teddy How could I forget! Peasecod bellies! i hate them! I also hate groups that insist if you're doing a costume from that period/participating in an event set in that period , you *have* to have a peascod belly on your doublet because *everybody* wore them!! I know of at least one painting showing men both with and without peasecod's. Even if the painting didn't exist, *nothing* will make me believe that *everybody* in any period followed all the current fashions. There will *always* be people who take the attitude of, "I don't care how fashionable it is, it looks silly and I'm not wearing it!" Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of air and darkness, apparently!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 07:19:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA13765 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 07:19:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA11207; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 06:38:59 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA07894 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 06:38:29 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.70]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA07882 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 06:38:28 -0700 (MST) From: Gaelscot@aol.com Received: from Gaelscot@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.787fa999 (4009) for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 08:37:52 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.787fa999.2587a230@aol.com> Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 08:37:52 EST Subject: H-COST: Re: fashion drawing exaggerations To: h-costume-digest@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com I think you've got to take ALL contemporary drawings, paintings, etc. with a grain of salt when it comes to both costume and the human form. There are a few exceptions, of course, and some times were more exaggerated than others. But (to generalize) all artists are depicting "ideal" people (or less-than-"ideal" people) and that's what they draw. Thus you'll often find some parts of illustrations to be quite accurate, and others not. Think of those long, thin, gothic hands and feet, for instance; or 15th-century proportions; or heads in Renaissance portraits (which are frequently missing a lot of brain matter); or 1840s fashion plates that show women with tiny pointy feet and shoulders that slope so much that they would have no shoulder blades if they were real. All show the aesthetic of the time -- tall, thin people; small waists and large shoulders; emphasis on the face and not on the hair; small feet and sloping shoulders. They give you the "feel" of the style. But none show what people ACTUALLY looked like -- any more than illustrations in pattern catalogues today show what the garments will really look like on people with normal proportions! Gail Finke _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 08:10:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA13848 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 08:10:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA15140; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 07:30:05 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA15348 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 07:29:54 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [195.194.177.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA15340 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 07:29:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from csv6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA19271.; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 14:35:55 GMT Received: from staff-Message_Server by csv6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 14:29:36 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5.2 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 14:29:30 +0000 From: "KATE M BUNTING" To: Subject: H-COST: 1830s sleeves (was Ugly fashion frivolities) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id HAA15343 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "KATE M BUNTING" I too have always thought that 1830s ladies' fashion plates looked ridiculous, with the enormous sleeves and little knots of hair on top of the head. However, here in the UK we currently have Mrs. Gaskell's "Wives and Daughters" on TV, in which the fashionable characters are wearing such styles, and I agree with Megan that, actually made up, they don't look so bad. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 08:17:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA13864 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 08:17:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA16104; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 07:37:12 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA16888 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 07:37:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA16870 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 07:37:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA11940 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 09:37:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA25916 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 09:37:43 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 09:37:43 -0500 (EST) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: RE: Queen Elizabeth's Effigy Corset? In-Reply-To: <199912140158.RAA17060@eclipse.pacifier.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: aleed > > > > She makes note that the side hoops are from 1760, which was the last time > > that the effigy was cleaned and re-dressed. > While the hoops are from the 18th Century, the corset is from the > early 17th C (contemporary with Elizabeth's death.) There is an > article in a journal at the Westminster Abbey Library which discusses > this. As Drea mentioned, Janet Arnold had something to do with it. > > However, I no longer have a copy of it that I can find and was unable > to find a replacement copy the time to go to the WA Library when I > was there. We didn't have time the day we went and it was closed when > we went to do photography (as that is only allowed for a short period > on Wednesday evenings.) > > If one of our lucky Londoners could go find the article, I'm sure a > number of us would be appreciative. (If I had the information on > which journal it was in, with the date and page number, I could > probably request a copy for study, as could Drea.) Yes, yes!! I would be eternally grateful for any info on that article! In fact, we might be able to work out some sort of exchange...replica pinking tools, or carnelian beads, or silk cloth of gold... Thanks, Drea (no, I'm not desparate) Leed _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 08:31:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA13876 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 08:31:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA18099; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 07:50:13 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA20181 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 07:49:54 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from pop1.cyberhighway.net (pop1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.35]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA20170 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 07:49:52 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199912141449.HAA20170@net.indra.com> Received: (qmail 23751 invoked from network); 14 Dec 1999 07:49:50 -0700 Received: from ts26-31.boi.cyberhighway.net (HELO kathy) (209.161.8.145) by pop1.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 14 Dec 1999 07:49:50 -0700 From: "K & J Hopkins" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: The King and I Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 08:00:28 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "K & J Hopkins" I > RE: The King and I . . . or whatever they're calling it. They may have > altered the story for the Jodie Foster pic, but they can't have altered it as > much as they altered the musical for the cartoon film that was out this > summer. From what I recall of the reviews, there were ninja-type bad guys, > there was a chase in a hot air balloon, and there was only one son (a martial > arts master sort of guy). The king and Anna got married, for all I know. I > just couldn't bear to see it. > > I wish people would just make up stories. Oops, wasn't that what the REAL > Anna was supposed to have done? > > Dying to see the costumes in this one! > > Gail Finke Just last night on the Family channel, there was a special about Anna and the King. Seems that 80% of her adventures were questionable. She wrote a book called The English Governess in Siam (?) or something like that. It was another woman who wrote the story Anna and the King and that is the story we know. Ann Leonowens was a remarkable woman and her books about life in the Siamese Court are some of the only records of life there. Even though the biographers on the program disputed the truthfulness of her stories, they praised her for pluck and determination for making herself a place in a difficult world. Kathlene _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 08:33:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA13881 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 08:33:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA18336; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 07:53:09 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA20791 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 07:53:03 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from pop1.cyberhighway.net (pop1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.35]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA20782 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 07:53:01 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199912141453.HAA20782@net.indra.com> Received: (qmail 24492 invoked from network); 14 Dec 1999 07:52:58 -0700 Received: from ts26-31.boi.cyberhighway.net (HELO kathy) (209.161.8.145) by pop1.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 14 Dec 1999 07:52:58 -0700 From: "K & J Hopkins" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: New Italian Ren. fan Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 08:03:31 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "K & J Hopkins" > There's not much I can recommend in the movie category (although my > personal favorite is Zefferelli's "Taming of the Shrew", but the > background costumes are better than the star's). "Dangerous Beauty" has > some good costumes on the background players as well but ignore what the > prostitutes are wearing. > > Books - the best ones I can think of currently in print are the 2 > volumes on Italian Ren frescoes. They're big and pricy but gorgeously > illustrated. For cheaper books, try finding the Riverside series on > various artists - I can recommend the one on Carpaccio. There's also a > good book out called "Renaissance Portraits" by Lorne Campbell that has > some nice stuff (I've made the red dress on the jacket cover that was > painted by Raphael). > > Carolyn Rent 'Artemisia'. French with American subtitles, adult theme, nudity, fabulous costumes. Kathlene _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 08:46:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA13901 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 08:46:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA19793; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 08:05:28 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA23349 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 08:05:19 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from pop1.cyberhighway.net (pop1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.35]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA23341 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 08:05:17 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199912141505.IAA23341@net.indra.com> Received: (qmail 27742 invoked from network); 14 Dec 1999 08:05:15 -0700 Received: from ts26-31.boi.cyberhighway.net (HELO kathy) (209.161.8.145) by pop1.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 14 Dec 1999 08:05:15 -0700 From: "K & J Hopkins" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: RE: Queen Elizabeth's Effigy Corset? Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 08:15:53 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "K & J Hopkins" > > > She makes note that the side hoops are from 1760, which was the last time > > > that the effigy was cleaned and re-dressed. In Piecework magazine last month they talk about the effigy and they mention the there are bloomers on it. Now, I was scratching my head over that and was about to ask the list about it. They must have been put on at a later time as well? > > If one of our lucky Londoners could go find the article, I'm sure a > > number of us would be appreciative. (If I had the information on > > which journal it was in, with the date and page number, I could > > probably request a copy for study, as could Drea.) > > Yes, yes!! I would be eternally grateful for any info on that article! In > fact, we might be able to work out some sort of exchange...replica pinking > tools, or carnelian beads, or silk cloth of gold... > > Thanks, > > Drea (no, I'm not desparate) Leed Yes, Yes!! I would also be interested, but not as desperate as Drea. Kathlene _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 08:53:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA13913 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 08:53:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA20456; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 08:12:21 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA25083 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 08:12:19 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com (imo14.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA25067 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 08:12:17 -0700 (MST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.b27c57a4 (4191) for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 10:11:42 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.b27c57a4.2587b82e@aol.com> Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 10:11:42 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Clothing Mistakes - several replies To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 44 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 12/14/1999 4:10:44 AM Eastern Standard Time, kayta@slip.net writes: << And, since this is the 90's, why do shoes have to be so narrow? And non-repairable, but so cheaply built they need repair soon after you buy them? >> The disposable era! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 08:54:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA13920 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 08:54:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA20834; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 08:14:19 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA25586 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 08:14:15 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo23.mx.aol.com (imo23.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.67]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA25576 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 08:14:13 -0700 (MST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.d2a8da24 (4191) for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 10:13:34 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.d2a8da24.2587b89d@aol.com> Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 10:13:33 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Clothing Mistakes - several replies To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 44 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 12/14/1999 4:10:44 AM Eastern Standard Time, kayta@slip.net writes: << but her friends all think my pierced eyebrow is 'cool'. >> This position is coverable in period dress? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 08:55:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA13924 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 08:55:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA20416; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 08:12:12 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA25006 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 08:12:00 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com (imo-d06.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA24999 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 08:11:59 -0700 (MST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.ea271b23 (4191) for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 10:10:09 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.ea271b23.2587b7d1@aol.com> Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 10:10:09 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: re: clothing mistakes To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 44 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 12/13/1999 11:56:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, martyr@gti.net writes: << Why exactly does that peeve you? It's a personal statement. >> Yes, it screams "I do what everyone else does!" or "I'm trashy"...to most people. Even piercing your ear can be dangerous. If the cartilage gets infected...good-bye ear! [lobes are pretty safe] And 50 year old tattoos are all ugly. "Mommy...why does Grandma have those blue green marks on her calf?" [that's right....make sure you're tattoo goes with varicose veins] There...I'm finished with the topic. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 08:59:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA13931 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 08:59:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA21269; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 08:18:57 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA26439 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 08:18:49 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d01.mx.aol.com (imo-d01.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.33]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA26426 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 08:18:47 -0700 (MST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.63ac7ca5 (4191) for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 10:18:14 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.63ac7ca5.2587b9b6@aol.com> Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 10:18:14 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: 1830s sleeves (was Ugly fashion frivolities) To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 44 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 12/14/1999 9:32:19 AM Eastern Standard Time, K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk writes: << However, here in the UK we currently have Mrs. Gaskell's "Wives and Daughters" on TV, in which the fashionable characters are wearing such styles, and I agree with Megan that, actually made up, they don't look so bad. >> Yes. The 1st time I saw a real 1830s dress I was very pleasantly surprised. The sleeves were full but the dress was light & delicate and nothing was exaggerated. The whole effect was delightful. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 09:00:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA13938 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 09:00:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA21432; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 08:19:52 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA26731 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 08:19:49 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA26718 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 08:19:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991214151946.QOXT17996.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 07:19:46 -0800 Message-ID: <38565F5D.CBEA526E@home.com> Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 09:16:45 -0600 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: The King and I References: <199912141449.HAA20170@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kat & Kent K & J Hopkins wrote: > > Just last night on the Family channel, there was a special about Anna > and the King. Seems that 80% of her adventures were questionable. > She wrote a book called The English Governess in Siam (?) or > something like that. It was another woman who wrote the story Anna > and the King and that is the story we know. Darn! I wish I hadn't missed it! Maybe they'll show it again... on a historical note... one of my husbands relatives of that period was the woman who was fired just before Anna was hired... seems she kept trying to convert the King's children to Christianity.... rather forcefully. Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 09:10:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA13957 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 09:10:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA22361; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 08:27:55 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA28611 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 08:27:50 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bodyguard.apsc.com (bodyguard.apsc.com [137.91.114.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA28601 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 08:27:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailhub.apsc.com (mailhub.apsc.commailhub.apsc.com [137.91.1.30]) by apsc.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA25234; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 08:43:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from nt219.apsc.com (nt219.apsc.com [137.91.1.75]) by mailhub.apsc.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA08331; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 08:27:42 -0700 (MST) Received: by nt219.apsc.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 08:27:46 -0700 Message-ID: <48B956EEB8ADD311822400902775A73A0733AA@nt15pv.apsc.com> From: "Knauf, Saragrace T(Z02001)" To: "'benrumson@worldnet.att.net'" Cc: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Italian Frescos-was New Italian Ren. fan Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 08:27:40 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Knauf, Saragrace T(Z02001)" <> Do you know the ISBNs, or authors? I am looking for a reproduction of a fresco "Pope Celestinus III Grants Privilege of Independence to the Spedale", by Domenico di Bartolo, 1443. I know it is in RENAISSANCE DRESS IN ITALY 1400-1500, by Jacqueline Herald, Bell & Hyman, London & Humanities Press, New Jersey, 1981. ISBN 0-391-02362-4. Color Plate 4 (pg 57). (Part of THE HISTORY OF DRESS SERIES)-but I haven't been able to find it. If you want to look at what I am talking about-see http://www.tiac.net/users/drbeer/joyce/ferrets/frhistpg.htm Thanks _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 09:19:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA13978 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 09:19:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA23340; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 08:38:29 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA01273 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 08:38:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from ghatti.ne.mediaone.net (IDENT:ddoug@ghatti.ne.mediaone.net [24.218.240.94]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01256 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 08:38:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from ddoug@localhost) by ghatti.ne.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA07169; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 10:38:17 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: ghatti.ne.mediaone.net: ddoug set sender to ddoug@mediaone.net using -f From: Debra Douglass MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <14422.25704.516564.395674@ghatti.ne.mediaone.net> Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 10:38:16 -0500 (EST) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: re: clothing mistakes In-Reply-To: Allison Thurman's message about H-COST: re: clothing mistakes References: X-Mailer: VM 6.72 under Emacs 20.4.1 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Debra Douglass On 12/13/1999, on h-costume@indra.com, Allison Thurman wrote: >>re: tattoos - i think the look is more popular than the reality. this >>explains the plastic "tattoo" chokers and the popularity of mehindi (henna >>body painting). At least mehndi is temporary. You can get a 'choker' mehndi tattoo and know that it will not last. -Debra Douglass -- .------------------------------------------------------------------. | No flames were thrown in the creation of this email message. | |-----------------------------.------------------------------------' |Debra Douglass \ |ddoug@mediaone.net \ |http://ghatti.ne.mediaone.net \ `---------------------------------` _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 09:26:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA13988 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 09:26:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA23896; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 08:42:44 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA02237 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 08:42:13 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from eclipse.pacifier.com (eclipse.pacifier.com [199.2.117.78]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA02212 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 08:42:09 -0700 (MST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: from grendal2 (ip86.van15.pacifier.com [216.65.137.86]) by eclipse.pacifier.com (8.9.3/8.9.3pop) with SMTP id HAA08490 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 07:41:59 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199912141541.HAA08490@eclipse.pacifier.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 07:43:35 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: RE: Queen Elizabeth's Effigy Corset? Priority: normal In-reply-to: <199912141505.IAA23341@net.indra.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > In Piecework magazine last month they talk about the effigy and they > mention the there are bloomers on it. Now, I was scratching my head over > that and was about to ask the list about it. They must have been put on at > a later time as well? It's hard to tell. The drawers (which are not like any "bloomers" I've seen) are tubes of fabric with a waistband. Even in the postcard they give you can see that there is no way that the waistband (which has a button which ought to attach to something and looks like it should attach to the other side of the waistband) not only doesn't meet in front but ends on each hip making a deep V in the front. They look like something someone put on it to "make the woman at least somewhat decent" in a much later time.) There is also a little bit of linen peeking out from under the top of the corset (but interestingly enough, not at the bottom. Just plaster between the bottom of the corset and those silly drawers.) Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 09:48:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA14010 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 09:48:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27215; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 09:07:13 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA08756 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 09:06:38 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from Herb-Lore.com ([209.141.89.62]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA08717 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 09:06:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from heather [207.204.223.208] by Herb-Lore.com (SMTPD32-5.05) id A90B2BF01F4; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 09:06:19 -0700 Message-ID: <000a01bf4655$8de31fe0$0101a8c0@heather> From: "Heather" To: References: <3855CE23.51EB04F9@gti.net> <000801bf45fb$f01b6be0$0101a8c0@heather> Subject: Re: H-COST: clothing mistakes Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 09:06:23 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Heather" > Has anyone else noticed that most of the peeves are from the last 20 years > or so? Looks like I was wrong... _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 09:59:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA14035 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 09:59:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA28984; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 09:18:21 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA12322 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 09:18:02 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.62]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA12305 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 09:18:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from 207-172-61-128.s128.tnt1.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com ([207.172.61.128] helo=e4c2n6) by smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #3) id 11xudk-0004lY-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 11:17:29 -0500 Message-ID: <002e01bf464e$a104c120$803daccf@e4c2n6> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: Subject: Re: H-COST: 1830s sleeves (was Ugly fashion frivolities) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 11:16:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" I have found that in studying fashion, everytime I say I can't stand a certain period or fashion... guess what I end of working with or researching???? You know what? When you really get into studying why a certain fashion was wore, you start to appreciate it. I used to not like bustle dresses. I helped set up an exhibit with many bustle dresses. Now, I have a great respect for women who had to put such a vast amount of clothing and contraptions. I never liked corsets... I had to build eight corset stands for exhibit. I never cared for "the Royalities of the World"... now I am a dresser for the Di gown. Later... Penny http://www.costumegallery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 10:04:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA14052 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 10:04:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA29449; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 09:20:55 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA13149 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 09:20:50 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc2.pa.home.com (ha1.rdc2.pa.home.com [24.12.106.194]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA13129 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 09:20:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from kjroom ([24.40.39.20]) by mail.rdc2.pa.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <19991214162036.FLAI19663.mail.rdc2.pa.home.com@kjroom> for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 08:20:36 -0800 From: "Kristen Gee" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: re: clothing mistakes Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 11:20:46 -0500 Message-ID: <001501bf464f$2e315950$0600a8c0@kjroom> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: <14422.25704.516564.395674@ghatti.ne.mediaone.net> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Kristen Gee" Well, my 'peeves' are people who decide that their way of dressing is the right way and the most pleasing to look at. It is really unacceptable to do anything to anyones pants, period. Can you imagine a person who wears his pants hanging off going up to someone who was wearing their pants at the waist and pulling them down? If they have chosen to dress that way, so be it. And as to following trends mindlessly, I think MOST people try to wear clothes that look like the other guy's, whether it be Cary Grant or a person you see on the bus. And wearing unusual clothes having to do with scarves or artistic jewelry dosn't count as unique. I don't mean to offend anyone, but I know I have been offended. Kristen Kristen Gee, Lurker kristen.gee@linkpa.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 10:15:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA14061 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 10:15:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA01413; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 09:34:27 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA17171 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 09:34:21 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from wcuvax1.wcu.edu (wcuvax1.wcu.edu [152.30.1.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA17152 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 09:34:19 -0700 (MST) From: STRAUSS@WCUVAX1.WCU.EDU Received: from WCUVAX1.WCU.EDU by WCUVAX1.WCU.EDU (PMDF V5.1-9 #24282) id <01JJHNUOH9L28ZDXU8@WCUVAX1.WCU.EDU> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 11:34:04 EST Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 11:34:04 -0500 (EST) Subject: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #857 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: <01JJHNUOHJ888ZDXU8@WCUVAX1.WCU.EDU> X-VMS-To: IN%"h-costume-digest@indra.com" X-VMS-Cc: STRAUSS MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: STRAUSS@WCUVAX1.WCU.EDU The NY Times has a great article, today (12/14) on primitive figures and weavings/clothing. Bob ==================================================================== Bob Strauss Cataloger Hunter Library Western Carolina U. strauss@wcu.edu Class home page: http://www3.wcu.edu/~strauss Personal home page: http://www3.wcu.edu/~strauss/personal ==================================================================== _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 10:21:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA14067 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 10:21:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA02299; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 09:41:05 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA19381 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 09:40:56 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA19370 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 09:40:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA05222 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 08:41:15 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <38567361.BD809FC1@serv.net> Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 08:42:10 -0800 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: re: clothing mistakes References: <001501bf464f$2e315950$0600a8c0@kjroom> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris Amen! I for one have a tattoo and ears pierced in several places. I am not trashy. Judging people by their outsides just proves that some people have ugly insides. Who cares if I have an old ugly tattoo when I'm 70? What do you care if my ear scars? Sheesh! At least I have my sight, my hearing, my limbs, and my mind! And last but not least, my heart. Cynthia > Well, my 'peeves' are people who decide that their way of dressing is the > right way and the most pleasing to look at. It is really unacceptable to do > anything to anyones pants, period. Can you imagine a person who wears his > pants hanging off going up to someone who was wearing their pants at the > waist and pulling them down? If they have chosen to dress that way, so be > it. And as to following trends mindlessly, I think MOST people try to wear > clothes that look like the other guy's, whether it be Cary Grant or a person > you see on the bus. And wearing unusual clothes having to do with scarves or > artistic jewelry dosn't count as unique. I don't mean to offend anyone, but > I know I have been offended. > Kristen > > Kristen Gee, Lurker > kristen.gee@linkpa.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of AnTir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 10:49:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA14122 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 10:49:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06684; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 10:07:14 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA27551 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 10:06:47 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from fepD.post.tele.dk (fepD.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.149]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA27526 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 10:06:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from post12.tele.dk ([195.249.161.60]) by fepD.post.tele.dk (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with ESMTP id <19991214170637.QPZD8897.fepD.post.tele.dk@post12.tele.dk> for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 18:06:37 +0100 Message-ID: <38567879.FEC93D2F@post12.tele.dk> Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 18:03:53 +0100 From: leif drews X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [da] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: RE: Queen Elizabeth's Effigy Corset? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: leif drews 18th.hoop petticoat on effigy of Elisabeth. I have seen pictures of this and i just wondered if there were farthingales shaped this way in the 16.th century. Could this be the kind of farthingale called a semi-cirkeled farthingale? Bjarne in Copenhagen. aleed skrev: > -Poster: aleed > > > > > > > She makes note that the side hoops are from 1760, which was the last time > > > that the effigy was cleaned and re-dressed. > > While the hoops are from the 18th Century, the corset is from the > > early 17th C (contemporary with Elizabeth's death.) There is an > > article in a journal at the Westminster Abbey Library which discusses > > this. As Drea mentioned, Janet Arnold had something to do with it. > > > > However, I no longer have a copy of it that I can find and was unable > > to find a replacement copy the time to go to the WA Library when I > > was there. We didn't have time the day we went and it was closed when > > we went to do photography (as that is only allowed for a short period > > on Wednesday evenings.) > > > > If one of our lucky Londoners could go find the article, I'm sure a > > number of us would be appreciative. (If I had the information on > > which journal it was in, with the date and page number, I could > > probably request a copy for study, as could Drea.) > > Yes, yes!! I would be eternally grateful for any info on that article! In > fact, we might be able to work out some sort of exchange...replica pinking > tools, or carnelian beads, or silk cloth of gold... > > Thanks, > > Drea (no, I'm not desparate) Leed > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME -- Leif Drews boulevard 5, 3 th 1635 København V Bjarne Drews boulevard 5,3.th 1635 København V tlf. 35 37 13 70 Homepage: http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/~DeeDee_Revia/1index.html _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 11:29:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA14169 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 11:29:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA12238; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 10:48:44 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA12336 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 10:48:16 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bodyguard.apsc.com (bodyguard.apsc.com [137.91.114.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA12315 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 10:48:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailhub.apsc.com (mailhub.apsc.commailhub.apsc.com [137.91.1.30]) by apsc.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA09050 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 11:03:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from nt219.apsc.com (nt219.apsc.com [137.91.1.75]) by mailhub.apsc.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA23280 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 10:48:10 -0700 (MST) Received: by nt219.apsc.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 10:48:18 -0700 Message-ID: <48B956EEB8ADD311822400902775A73A0733AD@nt15pv.apsc.com> From: "Knauf, Saragrace T(Z02001)" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: H-COST: 1580 German shoulder cape material? Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 10:48:08 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Knauf, Saragrace T(Z02001)" The sources I have for these shoulder capes worn over the dress is that they were most commonly made of velvet or fur. Does anyone know of a reference or picture that shows something a little lighter-like linen? I will be wearing it in sunny Arizona, and would like the option of something cooler. Thanks in advance Sg _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 11:37:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA14196 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 11:37:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA13620; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 10:56:44 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA15777 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 10:56:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA15753 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 10:56:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA23695 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 12:56:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA02169 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 12:57:10 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 12:57:09 -0500 (EST) From: aleed To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: Re: H-COST: 1580 German shoulder cape material? In-Reply-To: <48B956EEB8ADD311822400902775A73A0733AD@nt15pv.apsc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: aleed Inventory records of 16th century spanish settlers /sailors/soldiers in St. Augustine, Florida, refer to capes and cloaks made of linen, fustian and wool-linen blends. The records are listed in the book "Richer Than We Thought: Material Culture of 16th century St. Augustine", by Eugene Lyons. The German inventories of the time that I've read through only list wool, velvet, fur (lining) and silk. Hope this helps, Drea On Tue, 14 Dec 1999, Knauf, Saragrace T(Z02001) wrote: > > -Poster: "Knauf, Saragrace T(Z02001)" > > The sources I have for these shoulder capes worn over the dress is that they > were most commonly made of velvet or fur. Does anyone know of a reference > or picture that shows something a little lighter-like linen? I will be > wearing it in sunny Arizona, and would like the option of something cooler. > Thanks in advance > > Sg > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 11:43:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA14227 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 11:43:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA15086; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 11:02:45 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA18422 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 11:02:39 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA18405 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 11:02:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p3.directcon.net [206.170.184.52]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA04515 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 10:02:32 -0800 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 10:02:32 -0800 Message-Id: <199912141802.KAA04515@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: RE: Queen Elizabeth's Effigy Corset? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson > >In Piecework magazine last month they talk about the effigy and they >mention the there are bloomers on it. Now, I was scratching my head over >that and was about to ask the list about it. They must have been put on at >a later time as well? > No, the drawers ("bloomers" is a 19th century term) are thought to be original. Women's underpants were not common in England at the time, but they did exist. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 11:51:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA14262 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 11:51:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA16211; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 11:09:47 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA20797 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 11:09:27 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA20777 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 11:09:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p3.directcon.net [206.170.184.52]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA05365 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 10:09:21 -0800 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 10:09:21 -0800 Message-Id: <199912141809.KAA05365@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: RE: Queen Elizabeth's Effigy Corset? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson At 07:43 AM 12/14/1999 +0000, you wrote: > >-Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > > >> In Piecework magazine last month they talk about the effigy and they >> mention the there are bloomers on it. Now, I was scratching my head over >> that and was about to ask the list about it. They must have been put on at >> a later time as well? > >It's hard to tell. The drawers (which are not like any "bloomers" >I've seen) are tubes of fabric with a waistband. Even in the postcard >they give you can see that there is no way that the waistband (which >has a button which ought to attach to something and looks like it >should attach to the other side of the waistband) not only doesn't >meet in front but ends on each hip making a deep V in the front. They >look like something someone put on it to "make the woman at least >somewhat decent" in a much later time.) the "crotchless" drawers of the time make sense if you considerthat their purpose may have been, not to conceal the crotch area, but to protect the inner thighs from chafing. As for the waistband not meeting, they may have been an older pair that had not been worn in some time. We know that Elizabeth's measurements increased later in life. Since comfort isn't an issue when dressing an effigy, the fact that the drawers didn't fit properly probably wasn't much of a problem. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 11:52:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA14266 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 11:52:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA16601; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 11:11:19 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA21641 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 11:11:13 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA21626 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 11:11:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p3.directcon.net [206.170.184.52]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA05639 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 10:11:06 -0800 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 10:11:06 -0800 Message-Id: <199912141811.KAA05639@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: 1830s sleeves (was Ugly fashion frivolities) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson At 11:16 AM 12/14/1999 -0500, you wrote: > >-Poster: "Penny Ladnier" > >I have found that in studying fashion, everytime I say I can't stand a >certain period or fashion... guess what I end of working with or >researching???? You know what? When you really get into studying why a >certain fashion was wore, you start to appreciate it. Yes! I used to think that the late Elizabethan drum farthingale was the most hideous thing ever; Now, well, I wouldn't say I think that it's pretty, but is has a certain style, and the challenge of making it look good appeals to me. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 12:11:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA14288 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 12:11:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA20444; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 11:30:02 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA27336 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 11:29:26 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from scl-ims.phoenix.com (scl-ims.phoenix.com [134.122.1.73]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA27325 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 11:29:23 -0700 (MST) Received: by scl-ims.phoenix.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 10:28:41 -0800 Message-ID: <1F176F2C2977D311B3300090270E63784D28D4@scl-exch.phoenix.com> From: Cynthia Barnes To: "H-Costume (E-mail)" Subject: H-COST: Book: Italian Frescoes Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 10:29:02 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cynthia Barnes ><> >Do you know the ISBNs, or authors? _Italian Frescoes_, vol.2 is sub'd "The Flowering of the Renaissance". Steffi Roetgen. Book has excellent production values. Megabooks, Palo Alto has it at $109. They didnt have V.1. >"Pope Celestinus III Grants Privilege of Independence to the Spedale", by Domenico di Bartolo, 1443. Your pic would be in vol I, frescoes before 1470. --cin Cynthia Barnes 408.570.1023 Cynthia_Barnes@phoenix.com Phoenix Technologies 411 E. Plumeria Dr. San Jose CA 95134 "I think animal testing is a terrible idea; they get all nervous and give the wrong answers." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 12:28:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA14316 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 12:28:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA22243; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 11:48:01 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA02616 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 11:47:49 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ntserver1.mainsaver.com ([206.17.202.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02599 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 11:47:47 -0700 (MST) Received: by HP-LH3 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 10:47:50 -0800 Message-ID: <5B38B8D7EED8D211997F00A0C9E57FB91DB6CB@HP-LH3> From: MAGGIE SECARA To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Re: ugly fashion frivolities Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 10:47:41 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MAGGIE SECARA OF course, some of those peascods cover bellies that are really shaped like that! > ---------- > From: Cynthia Virtue[SMTP:cvirtue@thibault.org] > Reply To: h-costume@indra.com > Sent: Saturday, December 11, 1999 3:24 AM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: ugly fashion frivolities > > > -Poster: Cynthia Virtue > > Peascod bellies on Elizabethan men's jackets. Time for the men to look > as if they are pregnant, finally! > > -- > "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet LXXXI > "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia V. > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 12:41:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA14344 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 12:41:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24215; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 12:00:15 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA06053 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 11:59:50 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ntserver1.mainsaver.com ([206.17.202.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06041 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 11:59:48 -0700 (MST) Received: by HP-LH3 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 10:59:50 -0800 Message-ID: <5B38B8D7EED8D211997F00A0C9E57FB91DB6CC@HP-LH3> From: MAGGIE SECARA To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: 1580 German shoulder cape material? Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 10:59:47 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MAGGIE SECARA You're talking about a "gollar" I presume. Try making it up in a light-weight wool lined with silk. Many are very simple, and the lining doesn't always show. Or of course, save the garment until late afternoon/early evening. MaggiRos > ---------- > From: Knauf, Saragrace T(Z02001)[SMTP:SKNAUF@apsc.com] > Reply To: h-costume@indra.com > Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 1999 9:48 AM > To: 'h-costume@indra.com' > Subject: H-COST: 1580 German shoulder cape material? > > > -Poster: "Knauf, Saragrace T(Z02001)" > > The sources I have for these shoulder capes worn over the dress is that > they > were most commonly made of velvet or fur. Does anyone know of a reference > or picture that shows something a little lighter-like linen? I will be > wearing it in sunny Arizona, and would like the option of something > cooler. > Thanks in advance > > Sg > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 12:44:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA14348 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 12:44:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24950; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 12:04:17 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA07454 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 12:04:01 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from kuku.excite.com (kuku-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.63]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA07427 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 12:03:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from slippery ([199.172.153.106]) by kuku.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP id <19991214185820.VSLV19682.kuku.excite.com@slippery> for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 10:58:20 -0800 Message-ID: <32232318.945197900233.JavaMail.imail@slippery> Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 10:58:20 -0800 (PST) From: StitchWitch To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 1830s sleeves (was Ugly fashion frivolities) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 144.163.130.106 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: StitchWitch > I have found that in studying fashion, everytime I say I can't stand a > certain period or fashion... guess what I end of working with or > researching???? *snip* *GRIN* Yes, that's very true. I used to think the Empire fashions were something I'd look like an over-stuffed sausage in, and that they were 'icky'. However, now that I've made a couple . . . ;) While the actual 'look' of the 1830s sleeve is certainly much different than the fashion drawing (having done a very short stint at such, I do know the difference!) I still don't like 'em. So, I guess it's just a matter of time before I make one. *sigh* Kate ---- StitchWitch Unseen in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove. - P.G. Wodehouse, 1930 _______________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 13:00:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA14391 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 13:00:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27611; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 12:17:25 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA12228 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 12:17:07 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.bellatlantic.net (mail1.bellatlantic.net [199.45.32.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA12209 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 12:17:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from thibault.org (client-151-197-111-164.bellatlantic.net [151.197.111.164]) by mail1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA22271 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 14:20:32 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <385697B6.ECE0E6DE@thibault.org> Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 14:22:27 -0500 From: Cynthia Virtue Organization: Virtue Ventures http://www.virtue.to X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Clothing Mistakes - shoes References: <0.585fc772.2583c36c@aol.com> <38526C65.9FB0FB7@polarcomm.com> <004801bf4410$c91008e0$af57fea9@gunsafes> <4.1.19991213035446.00b8def0@pop.slip.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cynthia Virtue Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > place? And, since this is the 90's, why do shoes have to be so narrow? > And non-repairable, but so cheaply built they need repair soon after you > buy them? This is my favorite commentary on cheap shoes (or cheap anything, for that matter): [...from] Terry Pratchett, a sf/fantasy writer, who writes marevelously. Most of his stuff is funnier than the following, but I'm illustrating a point. Captain Vimes is in the City Watch. The reason the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they managed to spend less money. Take boots, for example. He earned thirty-eight dollars a month plus allowances. A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a season or two and then leaked like hell when the cardboard gave out, cost about ten dollars. Those were the kind of boots Vimes always bought, and wore until the soles were so thin that he could tell where he was in the city on a foggy night by the feel of the cobbles. But the thing was that good boots lasted for years and years. A man who could afford fifty dollars had a pair of boots that'd still be keeping his feet dry in ten years' time, while a poor man who could only afford cheap boots would have spent a hundred dollars on boots in the same time and would still have wet feet. This was the Captain Samuel Vimes "Boots" theory of socioeconomic unfairness. -- It wasn't until the astonishing success of Dicken's _A Christmas Carol_ that the holiday had any significant place in the English-speaking world. Easter was considered much more significant. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 13:06:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA14404 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 13:05:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28664; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 12:24:13 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA14417 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 12:24:05 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from post1.inre.asu.edu (post1.inre.asu.edu [129.219.13.100]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA14404 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 12:24:02 -0700 (MST) From: KATHLEEN.MAHER@asu.edu Received: from general3.asu.edu (general3.asu.edu [129.219.10.157]) by asu.edu (PMDF V5.2-31 #31135) with ESMTP id <0FMQ00D97WK0HO@asu.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 12:24:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by general3.asu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA18279 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 12:23:54 -0700 (MST) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 12:23:53 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Clothing Mistakes In-reply-to: <385697B6.ECE0E6DE@thibault.org> X-Sender: innana@general3.asu.edu To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: KATHLEEN.MAHER@asu.edu On Tue, 14 Dec 1999, Cynthia Virtue wrote: > > [...from] Terry Pratchett, a sf/fantasy writer, who writes > marevelously. Most of his stuff is funnier than the following, but > I'm illustrating a point. Captain Vimes is in the City Watch. Pratchett also makes a good point regarding style that relates to this thread. "The Monks of Cool live in a small and exclusive Monestary high in the Ramtop Mountains. Before taking their final vows, novices are taken by a senior monk to a room full of all sorts of clothing. The senior monk says to them "Yo, my son which outfit here is the most stylish?", to which the correct reply is "Hey, what ever I select" -Katie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 14:07:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA14469 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 14:07:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA07125; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 13:25:15 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA00205 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 13:24:24 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from crcst348.netaddress.usa.net (crcst348.netaddress.usa.net [204.68.23.93]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA00199 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 13:24:22 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 26703 invoked from network); 14 Dec 1999 20:20:41 -0000 Received: from nwcst291.netaddress.usa.net (204.68.23.36) by outbound.netaddress.usa.net with SMTP; 14 Dec 1999 20:20:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 21996 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Dec 1999 20:24:29 -0000 Message-ID: <19991214202429.21995.qmail@nwcst291.netaddress.usa.net> Received: from 204.68.23.36 by nwcst291 for [209.122.3.5] via web-mailer(M3.4.0.33) on Tue Dec 14 20:24:29 GMT 1999 Date: 14 Dec 99 13:24:29 MST From: Orlaith To: Subject: H-COST: Supplies help X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (M3.4.0.33) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id NAA00201 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Orlaith I am currently working on my 12th night/yule festival/new year's eve dress. It is a great red velveteen Italian Ren with snowflakes beaded all over the sleeves. The problem is that I have decided to use metal eyes to thread the lacing at the back. The question is where to find them. I know I have seen women with this style of closure but I've never seen them in stores or on the web. I am located in Arlington Virginia and but I would prefer to find them on the web. Thanks for any help you can give me.... Orlaith of Storvik but...WHY DID THE CHICKEN CROSS THE ROAD? FOX MULDER: You saw it cross the road with your own eyes. How many more chickens have to cross before you believe it? ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 14:10:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA14475 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 14:10:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA07923; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 13:30:00 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA01791 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 13:29:53 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bodyguard.apsc.com (bodyguard.apsc.com [137.91.114.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA01768 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 13:29:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailhub.apsc.com (mailhub.apsc.commailhub.apsc.com [137.91.1.30]) by apsc.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA21082 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 13:45:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from nt219.apsc.com (nt219.apsc.com [137.91.1.75]) by mailhub.apsc.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA07151 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 13:29:46 -0700 (MST) Received: by nt219.apsc.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 13:29:55 -0700 Message-ID: <48B956EEB8ADD311822400902775A73A0733B1@nt15pv.apsc.com> From: "Knauf, Saragrace T(Z02001)" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Supplies help Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 13:29:41 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Knauf, Saragrace T(Z02001)" Have you tried http://www.lacis.com/? I know they sell grommets in several sizes, I am not sure how small you want them. -----Original Message----- From: Orlaith [mailto:orlaith@usa.net] Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 1999 1:24 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Supplies help -Poster: Orlaith I am currently working on my 12th night/yule festival/new year's eve dress. It is a great red velveteen Italian Ren with snowflakes beaded all over the sleeves. The problem is that I have decided to use metal eyes to thread the lacing at the back. The question is where to find them. I know I have seen women with this style of closure but I've never seen them in stores or on the web. I am located in Arlington Virginia and but I would prefer to find them on the web. Thanks for any help you can give me.... Orlaith of Storvik but...WHY DID THE CHICKEN CROSS THE ROAD? FOX MULDER: You saw it cross the road with your own eyes. How many more chickens have to cross before you believe it? ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 14:27:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA14499 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 14:27:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10376; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 13:46:58 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA06627 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 13:46:43 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.7]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06602 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 13:46:38 -0700 (MST) From: DDunker@aol.com Received: from DDunker@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.b8fc020e (6964) for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 15:46:04 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.b8fc020e.2588068b@aol.com> Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 15:46:03 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: Supplies help To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 39 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: DDunker@aol.com For "lacers" for your Ren style, try www.patternsoftime.com Katrin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 14:32:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA14505 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 14:32:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10871; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 13:49:40 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA07373 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 13:49:30 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from gti.net (apollo.gti.net [199.171.27.7]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA07342 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 13:49:24 -0700 (MST) From: martyr@gti.net Received: from gti.net (morr0648.gti.net [208.216.122.48]) by gti.net (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA08768 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 15:49:26 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3856ADB6.8D3A9972@gti.net> Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 15:51:03 -0500 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: re: clothing mistakes References: <0.ea271b23.2587b7d1@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: martyr@gti.net Excuse me? You're finished are you? Thank you for sparing us. I am somewhat speechless here-are you actually implying that I am trashy because I have tattoos???! Mister, I don't know who you are but you are WAY out of line here. Way. Now you are flat-out insulting any of us on this list who have tattoos & piercing. And I am also confident that my tattoos will be just as beautiful when 90 as they are now. ~Lisa Yes, it screams "I do what everyone else does!" or "I'm trashy"...to most people.And 50 year old tattoos are all ugly. "Mommy...why does Grandma have those blue green marks on her calf?"[that's right....make sure you're tattoo goes with varicose veins] > > There...I'm finished with the topic. > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 14:41:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA14514 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 14:41:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA13217; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 13:59:48 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA10861 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 13:59:26 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta3-svc.virgin.net (mta3-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.144]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10843 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 13:59:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from LOCALNAME ([194.168.237.218]) by mta3-svc.virgin.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP id <19991214205332.MENV8910.mta3-svc.virgin.net@LOCALNAME> for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 20:53:32 +0000 Message-ID: <38570F74.6822@virgin.net> Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 19:48:04 -0800 From: Dawn Organization: ages of elegance (http://www.agesofelegance.co.uk) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-VN712-000 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: sumptuary laws. References: <00a701bf4548$30b085a0$9f30893e@default> <003c01bf4572$3a2736e0$e53d1d26@buck> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dawn > > > > Can't remember the source, but I read somewhere that the sumptuary laws in > > England (at least during Elizabeth's time) were just a form of indirect > > taxation. Wear what you chose and pay the fine. This is still the case in the 18thc and it seems that people broke the laws to prove that they were rich enough to pay the fine > Dawn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 14:41:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA14518 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 14:41:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA13252; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 13:59:55 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA11025 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 13:59:50 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta3-svc.virgin.net (mta3-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.144]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10996 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 13:59:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from LOCALNAME ([194.168.237.218]) by mta3-svc.virgin.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP id <19991214205401.MESC8910.mta3-svc.virgin.net@LOCALNAME> for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 20:54:01 +0000 Message-ID: <38571F1B.B58@virgin.net> Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 20:54:51 -0800 From: Dawn Organization: ages of elegance (http://www.agesofelegance.co.uk) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-VN712-000 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: 2 Inventories! References: <19991213205700.17969.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dawn Susannah Eanes wrote: > > -Poster: "Susannah Eanes" > > Please excuse the list posting --there were too many to write back to > individually -- > > Hi guys, > Since most of you who wrote me about receiving my Year-End Inventory list > prefer receiving the list in the body of an e-mail (not as an attachment), > please look for an e-mail tonight from me --but I will be sending it from > work, so it will be from a different e-mail address --I will put "Year-End > Inventory" in the subject line. I need to do it this way to save time > --I'll be sending it out to everyone at once, directly to the e-mail address > they gave me. > If anyone else is interested, I will continue to do the same over the next > few days until everyone has been replied to. > > btw, I *am* responding individually to everyone who is interested in the Old > Store Stock (the other inventory sale I am involved with!), and I still have > alot to respond to. Bear with me, I promise you will hear from me very > soon. > Thanks, everyone for your interest! > > Susannah > > >From: "Susannah Eanes" > >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com > >To: h-costume@indra.com > >Subject: H-COST: getting rid of year-end Inventory > >Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 15:32:55 PST > > > > > >-Poster: "Susannah Eanes" > > > >Hi guys, > >I have several items that I am willing to part with for about 1/2 of the > >regular price, including mostly women's 18th century work clothing, > >infants' > >items, a few pairs of 18th c. women's shoes, and other basics. If anyone > >is > >interested in perusing the list of items for sale, please e-mail me > >privately. I will send a list back directly to you as an attachment (or if > >your e-mail provider does not like attachments, let me know and I will copy > >it directly into the body of the e-mail). I would like to get rid of > >everything I can before the end of the year because in Virginia I have to > >pay tax on unsold items in my business inventory. > > > >Thanks, > >Susannah > > > >"We are only the trustees for those who come after us." > > --William Morris > > > yes please Dawn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 16:02:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA14643 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 16:02:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25825; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 15:21:32 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA06633 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 15:20:59 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d08.mx.aol.com (imo-d08.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.40]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA06622 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 15:20:58 -0700 (MST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.cad8fb15 (4598) for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 17:19:54 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.cad8fb15.25881c8a@aol.com> Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 17:19:54 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: re: clothing mistakes To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 44 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 12/14/1999 11:24:17 AM Eastern Standard Time, kristen.gee@linkpa.com writes: << I don't mean to offend anyone, but I know I have been offended. >> Sorry, dear. Of course you may dress as you please. But it is a fact that if you chose, say, to put a plate in your lip or bind your feet, in this society you must put up with some staring and turning up of noses. It's your choice. When you find a society that does not judge you, at least partly, by your appearance, let us know. Until then, you'll have to put up with it. Everyone else does. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 16:16:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA14657 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 16:16:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28114; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 15:35:45 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA10726 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 15:35:15 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.68]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA10710 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 15:35:14 -0700 (MST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.27abed9a (4598) for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 17:34:35 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.27abed9a.25881ff9@aol.com> Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 17:34:33 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: re: clothing mistakes To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 44 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id PAA10716 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 12/14/1999 11:42:19 AM Eastern Standard Time, keltia@serv.net writes: << Who cares if I have an old ugly tattoo when I'm 70? What do you care if my ear scars?>> Well, if you don't, I certainly don't. <> And so do I. But if you re-read my post you will see that I said that "Most people think" it's looks trashy. This is true at this point in time regardless of how PC anyone wants to get. I can wear a wig and a wedding dress to book signings if I want but to expect everyone to be blasé about it is just not realistic. Your righteousness is misdirected. I want you to dress the way you please. But I'm not everyone......not by a long shot. And I don't have to pretend I like it. Sheesh! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 16:19:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA14664 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 16:19:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28438; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 15:38:07 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA11522 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 15:38:03 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.70]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA11512 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 15:38:01 -0700 (MST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.b2801d9b (4598) for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 17:37:30 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.b2801d9b.258820a9@aol.com> Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 17:37:29 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: 1830s sleeves (was Ugly fashion frivolities) To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 44 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 12/14/1999 1:15:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, margo@directcon.net writes: << Yes! I used to think that the late Elizabethan drum farthingale was the most hideous thing ever; >> I use to think T-shaped tunics were the worst. Then I had to cut a million of then for "Macbeth". How beautiful they can be! The endless draping possibilities and the variety one can achieve from such a simple cut! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 16:23:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA14679 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 16:23:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28993; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 15:41:48 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA12673 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 15:41:44 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d10.mx (imo-d10.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.42]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12661 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 15:41:42 -0700 (MST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.63b0121d (4598) for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 17:41:08 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.63b0121d.25882184@aol.com> Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 17:41:08 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: re: clothing mistakes To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 44 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 12/14/1999 3:50:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, martyr@gti.net writes: << Mister, I don't know who you are but you are WAY out of line here. Way. Now you are flat-out insulting any of us on this list who have tattoos & piercing. And I am also confident that my tattoos will be just as beautiful when 90 as they are now. >> No, I'm not and no I didn't. Take a chill pill. and good luck with your tattoo. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 16:47:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA14783 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 16:47:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02332; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 16:05:36 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA19355 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 16:05:25 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc2.pa.home.com (ha1.rdc2.pa.home.com [24.12.106.194]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA19328 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 16:05:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from kjroom ([24.40.39.20]) by mail.rdc2.pa.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <19991214230513.KXXF19663.mail.rdc2.pa.home.com@kjroom> for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 15:05:13 -0800 From: "Kristen Gee" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: re: clothing mistakes Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 18:05:23 -0500 Message-ID: <001601bf4687$b478ad00$0600a8c0@kjroom> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: <0.cad8fb15.25881c8a@aol.com> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Kristen Gee" >Sorry, dear. Of course you may dress as you please. But it is a fact that if >you chose, say, to put a plate in your lip or bind your feet, in this society >you must put up with some staring and turning up of noses. It's your choice. >When you find a society that does not judge you, at least partly, by your >appearance, let us know. Until then, you'll have to put up with it. Everyone >else does. My e-mail was not intended to imply that I had a problem with how people dress, but about yours and others reactions to how others dress. You obviously misunderstood me. Let me make myself more clear: What if those in our society who choose to wear what you consider unusual fashions were to stare and turn up their nose at YOU when you considered yourself dressed normally and decently? They would be rude of course, and so would you if you did the same to them. Would you stare and turn up your nose at a person with a disability? Of course not. The fact that someone is different should not open them up to ridicule and rebuke, unless they are doing something that is harmful to YOU. That is my point. And by the way, I am not offended for myself, but offended that rational and mature people could be so petty and juvenile. Kristen Gee, unlurker kristen.gee@linkpa.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 16:50:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA14789 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 16:50:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02811; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 16:09:09 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA20285 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 16:08:16 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA20259 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 16:08:13 -0700 (MST) From: DDunker@aol.com Received: from DDunker@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.ccb95302 (3976) for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 18:07:24 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.ccb95302.258827ac@aol.com> Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 18:07:24 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: re: clothing mistakes To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 39 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: DDunker@aol.com I have read the average life of a list is 18 months. The death knell is usually due to intolerance. Please, let's not ruin a great list with arguments. Live and let live. Katrin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 17:14:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA14845 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 17:14:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA05705; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 16:33:27 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA27526 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 16:32:51 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.wa.home.com [24.0.2.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA27516 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 16:32:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from [24.9.58.36] by mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991214233244.IGQV20526.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 15:32:44 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.0c (197) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 15:38:02 -0800 Subject: Re: H-COST: re: clothing mistakes From: "R.L. Shep" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19991214233244.IGQV20526.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "R.L. Shep" It's the Holiday Season..... can we just change the subject - please. Thanks ~!~ R.L.Shep http://www.rlshep.com ---------- >From: "Kristen Gee" >To: >Subject: RE: H-COST: re: clothing mistakes >Date: Tue, Dec 14, 1999, 3:05 PM > > >-Poster: "Kristen Gee" > > >>Sorry, dear. Of course you may dress as you please. But it is a fact that >if >>you chose, say, to put a plate in your lip or bind your feet, in this >society >>you must put up with some staring and turning up of noses. It's your >choice. > >>When you find a society that does not judge you, at least partly, by your >>appearance, let us know. Until then, you'll have to put up with it. >Everyone >>else does. > > > My e-mail was not intended to imply that I had a problem with how people >dress, but about yours and others reactions to how others dress. You >obviously misunderstood me. Let me make myself more clear: What if those in >our society who choose to wear what you consider unusual fashions were to >stare and turn up their nose at YOU when you considered yourself dressed >normally and decently? They would be rude of course, and so would you if you >did the same to them. Would you stare and turn up your nose at a person with >a disability? Of course not. The fact that someone is different should not >open them up to ridicule and rebuke, unless they are doing something that is >harmful to YOU. That is my point. And by the way, I am not offended for >myself, but offended that rational and mature people could be so petty and >juvenile. > >Kristen Gee, unlurker >kristen.gee@linkpa.com > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 17:21:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA14865 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 17:21:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA07078; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 16:40:28 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA29621 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 16:40:01 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d02.mx.aol.com (imo-d02.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.34]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA29588 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 16:39:57 -0700 (MST) From: Fopdejour1@aol.com Received: from Fopdejour1@aol.com by imo-d02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.1e8dcbc1 (2616) for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 18:39:24 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.1e8dcbc1.25882f2b@aol.com> Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 18:39:23 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: re: clothing mistakes To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 45 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Fopdejour1@aol.com In a message dated 12/14/99 11:34:23 PM !!!First Boot!!!, rlshep@home.com writes: << It's the Holiday Season..... can we just change the subject - please. Thanks ~!~ R.L.Shep >> I am inclined to agree. Chas _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 18:00:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA14927 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 18:00:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA11259; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 17:18:19 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA09262 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 17:18:00 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc2.pa.home.com (ha1.rdc2.pa.home.com [24.12.106.194]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA09250 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 17:17:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from kjroom ([24.40.39.20]) by mail.rdc2.pa.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <19991215001751.MAGF19663.mail.rdc2.pa.home.com@kjroom> for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 16:17:51 -0800 From: "Kristen Gee" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: re: clothing mistakes Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 19:18:02 -0500 Message-ID: <001701bf4691$da6ef410$0600a8c0@kjroom> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: <0.1e8dcbc1.25882f2b@aol.com> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Kristen Gee" Sure-sorry. I think I've made my point anyhow. I apologize for any upset this might have caused. -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Fopdejour1@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 1999 6:39 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: re: clothing mistakes -Poster: Fopdejour1@aol.com In a message dated 12/14/99 11:34:23 PM !!!First Boot!!!, rlshep@home.com writes: << It's the Holiday Season..... can we just change the subject - please. Thanks ~!~ R.L.Shep >> I am inclined to agree. Chas _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 18:00:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA14931 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 18:00:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA11452; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 17:19:10 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA09607 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 17:19:06 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA09595 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 17:19:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p22.directcon.net [206.170.184.71]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA29731 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 16:19:00 -0800 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 16:19:00 -0800 Message-Id: <199912150019.QAA29731@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Clothing Mistakes Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson (Funny, usually I say this to my kids) I don't care WHO started it, I want it to STOP! NOW! Santa Claus is watching you, you know. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 18:23:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA15021 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 18:23:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA13660; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 17:42:03 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA16318 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 17:41:39 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from gti.net (apollo.gti.net [199.171.27.7]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA16292 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 17:41:35 -0700 (MST) From: martyr@gti.net Received: from gti.net (morr0648.gti.net [208.216.122.48]) by gti.net (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA09051 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 19:41:36 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3856E41C.43D80B6D@gti.net> Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 19:43:11 -0500 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: re: clothing mistakes References: <001701bf4691$da6ef410$0600a8c0@kjroom> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: martyr@gti.net > Yes please-let us return to historic costume. > ~Lisa > > << It's the Holiday Season..... can we just change the subject - please. > Thanks > ~!~ R.L.Shep >> _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 18:33:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA15027 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 18:33:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA14698; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 17:52:10 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA18735 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 17:52:04 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from pentium.gower.net (pentium.gower.net [205.230.30.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA18724 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 17:52:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from gower.net(user-41.annex-01.tyl.gower.net[208.218.191.51]) (658 bytes) by pentium.gower.net via sendmail with P:esmtp/R:inet_hosts/T:smtp (sender: ) id for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 18:52:00 -0600 (CST) (Smail-3.2.0.108 1999-Sep-19 #1 built 1999-Sep-28) Message-ID: <3856E563.B21AB5C7@gower.net> Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 18:48:36 -0600 From: Vicki Betts X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en]C-NECCK (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Costume & Dressmaker Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Vicki Betts Is _Costume & Dressmaker: The Magazine for Serious Costumers_ still being published? If so, what is the most recent issue number? Thanks! Vicki Betts _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 19:23:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA15078 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 19:23:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA20840; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 18:42:13 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA28992 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 18:41:50 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from squealer.excite.com ([199.172.153.143]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA28977 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 18:41:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from slippery ([199.172.153.106]) by ewey.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP id <19991215013845.WZPR321.ewey.excite.com@slippery> for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 17:38:45 -0800 Message-ID: <25598167.945221925845.JavaMail.imail@slippery> Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 17:38:45 -0800 (PST) From: StitchWitch To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Santa Cloths (was Re: H-COST: Re: Clothing Mistakes) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 161.38.1.16 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: StitchWitch > I don't care WHO started it, I want it to STOP! NOW! *raises a guilty hand* B-but I just wanted to know who thought what was the height in silly fashions . . .! *WHIMPER* > Santa Claus is watching you, you know. *shift gears* I've seen some lovely holiday cards with Santa, Father Christmas, etc. on them in various garb, the most stunning of which is a heavy fur coat (looks like bear) over a midnight blue robe embroidered with silver snowflakes. I think this was a Victorian creation, but was there ever a 'Santa' historically with such an outfit? And wouldn't a presentation of historical Santas be stunning? *sound of evil plots hatching* Kate ---- StitchWitch Unseen in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove. - P.G. Wodehouse, 1930 _______________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 19:39:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA15123 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 19:39:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA22166; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 18:56:55 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA01988 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 18:56:45 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA01969 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 18:56:42 -0700 (MST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.f58692ee (4256) for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 20:56:05 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.f58692ee.25884f35@aol.com> Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 20:56:05 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: re: clothing mistakes To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 44 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 12/14/1999 6:06:23 PM Eastern Standard Time, kristen.gee@linkpa.com writes: << Would you stare and turn up your nose at a person with a disability? Of course not. >> Who choses to have a disability? And being gay, I know very well what you are talking about. But if I was offended at every remark or unthinking person, I'd spend my life being offended. But you see, I'm not stupid or unthinking. Which brings me to my next post...... [which is about costuming, BTW] _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 19:39:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA15127 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 19:39:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA22251; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 18:57:18 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA02069 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 18:57:15 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d09.mx.aol.com (imo-d09.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.41]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA02057 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 18:57:12 -0700 (MST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.25cf086f (4256) for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 20:56:36 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.25cf086f.25884f54@aol.com> Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 20:56:36 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: re: clothing mistakes To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 44 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 12/14/1999 7:43:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, martyr@gti.net writes: << > Yes please-let us return to historic costume. >> Yes....and discuss tattoos instead of emoting over them. Where do they come from? Why in Western culture should they have a negative connotation? I find this interesting. Surely most of the cultures of the world at some point in their history employed with acceptance tattoos as decoration. How did it become unacceptable at the Junior League or UDC? Association with "primitive" cultures? Association with sailors [who got them in "primitive" cultures]? How does it relate to something like long hair & beards on men? [which seems to oscillate from OK to not OK....more so than tattoos....or does it?] Or is this anthropology, not costuming? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 20:12:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA15194 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 20:12:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA25949; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 19:32:01 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA07687 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 19:31:53 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA07681 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 19:31:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA00704 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 18:31:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-58-65.lightspeed.net [209.165.58.65]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA21710 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 18:31:49 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <01a601bf46a7$10c08b40$57d2fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: References: <4.2.0.58.19991213114327.00a48240@djnash.mail.iastate.edu> Subject: H-COST: Was ugly clothes, now Anne of Cleves Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 17:53:27 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" > Just musing out loud--it's Finals Week here, > Doris Wheeew! Glad to see I am not the only one in a panic! ....and back to costuming. I am making plans for after Christmas. Has anyone made a copy of the dress Anne of Cleves wore for the betrothal portrait? I can see that it is a combination overdress with underdress but I wanted pointers, especially what *not* to do. ;) There is some details specific to her hat in the Herbert Norris, Tudor Costume book but, information on the dress itself is lacking. Has anyone found any sources that gives details on how to do that style of dress? I have Period Patterns #46, German Puff and Slash, though I haven't attempted to modify it yet. I also have Patterns 3, if someone sees something I didn't. Thanks! Michelle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 20:12:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA15198 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 20:12:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA26041; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 19:32:12 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA07741 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 19:32:10 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.nj.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.nj.home.com [24.3.128.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA07734 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 19:32:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from cc1010062a ([24.3.134.203]) by mail.rdc1.nj.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <19991215023201.EXZK17353.mail.rdc1.nj.home.com@cc1010062a> for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 18:32:01 -0800 Message-ID: <02c101bf46a4$9114bee0$cb860318@avnl1.nj.home.com> From: "Kyna Grannd" To: References: <19991214202429.21995.qmail@nwcst291.netaddress.usa.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: Supplies help Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 21:32:00 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Kyna Grannd" Warning.... blatant plug for myself to follow :) We are just finalizing out complete online catalog/shopping cart and out text price list now contains links to photos of most of our listed items. Once complete, we will also have all our laces and trims shown, books and additional corset supplies that have yet to finish arriving. We'd be happy to help you and answer any questions. We have various sizes and styles of grommets in stock. We also are an authorized distributor for one of the Norwegian pewter companies, with a full line of clasps offered in eye/hook, hook/hook and eye/eye combinations. The main site is at http://GranndGarb.com The Clasps can be found at: http://granndgarb.com/page2.shtml The Grommets, Eyelets and such can be found at: http://granndgarb.com/page5.shtml Regards, ~Kyna Grannd Garb Historic Clothing Supplies and Accessories info@granndgarb.com http://granndgarb.com > > -Poster: Orlaith > > I am currently working on my 12th night/yule festival/new year's eve dress. > It is a great red velveteen Italian Ren with snowflakes beaded all over the > sleeves. The problem is that I have decided to use metal eyes to thread the > lacing at the back. The question is where to find them. I know I have seen > women with this style of closure but I've never seen them in stores or on the > web. I am located in Arlington Virginia and but I would prefer to find them > on the web. > > Thanks for any help you can give me.... > > Orlaith of Storvik _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 20:29:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA15225 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 20:29:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA27331; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 19:48:16 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA10154 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 19:48:00 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from m2.jersey.juno.com (m2.jersey.juno.com [209.67.34.60]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA10143 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 19:47:58 -0700 (MST) Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.jersey.juno.com (queuemail) id ETULTZ7F; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 21:46:51 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 19:54:29 -0600 Subject: Re: H-COST: Sumptuary Law violations-more specific Q Message-ID: <19991214.204442.-32587.2.seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.13 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 6-7 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Karen R Bergquist Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Karen R Bergquist I have heard that Philip of Spain created a set of sumptuary laws which greatly restricted the styles and fabrics the Spanish could wear, ironically just as the riches and fabrics from the Orient and the New World were really getting available. This was sited as the cause for the somewhat somber appearance of many of the Spanish nobility (as if being Spanish weren't enough to be somber about! JUST KIDDING! My RenFaire character is a typically xenophobic Elizabethan Englishwoman). Karen _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 20:29:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA15229 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 20:29:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA27338; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 19:48:18 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA10192 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 19:48:10 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from m2.jersey.juno.com (m2.jersey.juno.com [209.67.34.60]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA10185; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 19:48:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.jersey.juno.com (queuemail) id ETULTZZR; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 21:46:51 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume-digest@indra.com Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 17:30:51 -0600 Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: carnation Message-ID: <19991214.204442.-32587.0.seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.13 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-25 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Karen R Bergquist Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Karen R Bergquist My understanding is that it is actually the color of raw flesh, which could be understood as a deep shade of pink, I suppose, depending on the flesh in question! Karen On Tue, 7 Dec 1999 08:30:41 EST Gaelscot@aol.com writes: > > -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com > > > > I love all those color names too, but they can be misleading. > Carnation was, > I believe, a sort of dried blood color, not a pink. Boy, I wish the > Color > Marketing Group and the other so-called color "forecasters" would > make up > names like that today! > > Gail Finke > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 20:29:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA15233 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 20:29:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA27442; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 19:48:40 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA10263 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 19:48:37 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from m2.jersey.juno.com (m2.jersey.juno.com [209.67.34.60]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA10255; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 19:48:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.jersey.juno.com (queuemail) id ETULT2BQ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 21:46:51 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume-digest@indra.com Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 20:21:39 -0600 Subject: Re: H-COST: Clothing Mistakes Message-ID: <19991214.204442.-32587.4.seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.13 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-44 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Karen R Bergquist Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Karen R Bergquist Oh Teddy, I'm so sorry I missed you in full Cavalier! It must have been fabulous! Next time I'm over, I want to see moer of your stuff!!! Karen On Mon, 13 Dec 1999 10:51:13 +0000 (GMT) Teddy writes: > > -Poster: Teddy > > > --Poster: StitchWitch > > > > What is your least favorite fashion frivolity? Mine is the > c.1830's > > American women's sleeves. They look to me like linebackers in > lace! > > And it made thier heads, to my eye, look way too tiny. Perhaps > some > > women can carry this look, but I sure can't! > > > > Kate > > Mine is those lateish 17th century petticoat-britches.... > . On their own they are bad enough but with the huge > puff of shirt between the waist of them and the bottom of the > "doublet" they are simply horrible. > > Mind you, you never know what the "modern-eye" is going to > interpret strangely. On Saturday, I was in a 1630's suit (the group > I > don English Civil War re-enactment with were having a get-together > in a pub in Southend-on-Sea) and the landlady of the guest-house > we were staying in asked if we were "in drag" - must have been the > lace around mu collar and cuffs..... > > At least the people we encountered in the twon itself recognized > the period enough to call out things like "All for one and one for > all". > > > Teddy > (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of > air and darkness, apparently!) > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 20:33:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA15265 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 20:33:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA27941; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 19:53:16 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA10990 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 19:52:50 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA10976 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 19:52:48 -0700 (MST) From: M311@aol.com Received: from M311@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.cad9bbf6 (4330) for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 21:52:12 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.cad9bbf6.25885c5c@aol.com> Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 21:52:12 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: re: clothing mistakes To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 38 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: M311@aol.com In a message dated 12/14/99 7:57:44 PM Central Standard Time, AlbertCat@aol.com writes: << Why in Western culture should they have a negative connotation? I find this interesting. >> I know for me personally the main reasoning is Biblical. It would have to be about destorying the temple of your body. I personally, noticed I said I personally, don't like tatoos and wouldn't get one. I also don't like pain and needles. I know people who have them but I don't think they look nice. I do have my ears pierced once and think that is enough also. I know tatoos and multiply piercings are seen as a sign of rebellion by lots of people in the Church and the area where I live. I live in the midwest, Illinois. I don't not like someone if they chose to have these but I just wouldn't want one. I have kids and we are raising them to not want to have tatoos. If they did I wouldn't stop loving them. I also don't like very low cut outfits or real short dresses either. I don't like to see underclothes through an outfit either. In the US I wonder if tatoos also were considered bad or to shy away from because of the feelings some had of Indians and their warpaint? Maybe it made them think of that and then think voilent people? Just wondering. Kelly m311@aol.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 20:37:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA15278 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 20:37:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA28342; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 19:57:09 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA11706 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 19:57:05 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from gti.net (apollo.gti.net [199.171.27.7]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA11698 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 19:57:02 -0700 (MST) From: martyr@gti.net Received: from gti.net (morr0648.gti.net [208.216.122.48]) by gti.net (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA28970 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 21:57:03 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <385703CE.D2009ABE@gti.net> Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 21:58:32 -0500 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: re: clothing mistakes References: <0.25cf086f.25884f54@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: martyr@gti.net I will tell you why Albert. It stems back to the '30s when tattoos became popular with sailors. Yes, just like Popeye. The tattoos back then were very clumsy, heavily outlined & in the old-style "mom"/"I love Suzi" cartoon effect and no, not very attractive by modern standards. Unfortunately, the needles were usually not sterilized and, yes sailors also had a tendency to pick up STDs as well as tattoos and had a reputation for being a generally rowdy, vulgar, offensive bunch. This negative image of tattoos and drunken, STD-laden sailors from the '30s remains in the American consciousness even now. Plus since the '30s other anti-social groups such as bikers and street gangs have also used tattoos to engage the "bad-ass" image associated with tattoos. Today, tattooing is literally a form of graphic art. You apprentice as a tattoo artist & it can be a lucrative, rewarding career for those with the talent and drive. The equipment is much more sophisticated now and the super fine, high tech needles can produce photo-realistic images right on the skin. People get tattoos for various reasons. Most people I know with tattoos thought out and planned what they wanted to get a long time in advance and hold dear the images they have permanently etched onto their flesh. There is a non-specific spirituality and comraderie among tattooed people. Tattoos can be painful and the new technology has made them much more expensive-but it's well worth it. Piercings are different a non-permanent form of body art that has become a side-offering at many tattoo shops because they both involve modifying the body and a fair amount of pain. Actually, the *latest* body modification, for the truly brave is this tribal style body scarification, involving cutting the skin and sometimes inserting foreign objects such as beads or rings *under* the skin and fakir-inspired pain rituals. I saw one girl being hung up like meat-dangling from hooks embedded into the skin on her back. From what I saw one night on one of the 20/20 type TV show, the danger aspect is what makes the scarification so appealing and the "rush" of absolute pain which stimulates an endorphin high. This is how I know I'm getting old-even this is rather disturbing to me. But compared to this, isn't tattooing pretty tame? That's my manifesto for tonight. Thanks for reading, ~Lisa > > Where do they come from? Why in Western culture should they have a negative > connotation? I find this interesting. > > Surely most of the cultures of the world at some point in their history > employed with acceptance tattoos as decoration. How did it become > unacceptable at the Junior League or UDC? > > Association with "primitive" cultures? Association with sailors [who got them > in "primitive" cultures]? > > How does it relate to something like long hair & beards on men? [which seems > to oscillate from OK to not OK....more so than tattoos....or does it?] _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 20:45:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA15293 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 20:45:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA29262; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 20:04:43 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA13077 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 20:04:37 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from eclipse.pacifier.com (eclipse.pacifier.com [199.2.117.78]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA13069 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 20:04:35 -0700 (MST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: from grendal2 (ip216.van27.pacifier.com [216.65.139.216]) by eclipse.pacifier.com (8.9.3/8.9.3pop) with SMTP id TAA26804 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 19:04:25 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199912150304.TAA26804@eclipse.pacifier.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 19:07:49 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: RE: Queen Elizabeth's Effigy Corset? Priority: normal In-reply-to: <38567879.FEC93D2F@post12.tele.dk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > -Poster: leif drews > > 18th.hoop petticoat on effigy of Elisabeth. > I have seen pictures of this and i just wondered if there were farthingales > shaped this way > in the 16.th century. > Could this be the kind of farthingale called a semi-cirkeled farthingale? > Bjarne in Copenhagen. These were known to have been made in the 18th century (as there are notations for the cost of their construction). The style is also 100% 18th century. Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 20:47:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA15302 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 20:47:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA28732; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 20:00:31 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA12301 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 20:00:25 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from eclipse.pacifier.com (eclipse.pacifier.com [199.2.117.78]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA12288 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 20:00:23 -0700 (MST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: from grendal2 (ip216.van27.pacifier.com [216.65.139.216]) by eclipse.pacifier.com (8.9.3/8.9.3pop) with SMTP id TAA25456 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 19:00:09 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199912150300.TAA25456@eclipse.pacifier.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 19:03:35 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: RE: Queen Elizabeth's Effigy Corset? Priority: normal In-reply-to: <199912141809.KAA05365@apollo.directcon.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > >It's hard to tell. The drawers (which are not like any "bloomers" > >I've seen) are tubes of fabric with a waistband. Even in the postcard > >they give you can see that there is no way that the waistband (which > >has a button which ought to attach to something and looks like it > >should attach to the other side of the waistband) not only doesn't > >meet in front but ends on each hip making a deep V in the front. They > >look like something someone put on it to "make the woman at least > >somewhat decent" in a much later time.) > > the "crotchless" drawers of the time make sense if you considerthat their > purpose may have been, not to conceal the crotch area, but to protect the > inner thighs from chafing. These are *not* crotchless drawers. Crotchless drawers I've seen. Although it could have been a very old pair (or one belonging to someone else), they look like an older vintage than the types of underwear (men's and women's) in drawings, paintings and extant from the 16th and 17th century. > Since comfort isn't an > issue when dressing an effigy, the fact that the drawers didn't fit properly > probably wasn't much of a problem. Very obviously not! Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 20:47:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA15298 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 20:47:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA29482; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 20:07:07 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA13453 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 20:07:02 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ww183.netaddress.usa.net (ww183.netaddress.usa.net [204.68.24.83]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA13447 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 20:07:00 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 6538 invoked by uid 60001); 15 Dec 1999 03:06:59 -0000 Message-ID: <19991215030659.6537.qmail@ww183.netaddress.usa.net> Received: from 204.68.24.83 by ww183 for [216.70.83.181] via web-mailer(M3.3.1.96) on Wed Dec 15 03:06:59 GMT 1999 Date: 14 Dec 99 21:06:59 CST From: Barbara Corley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [H-COST: Supplies help] X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (M3.3.1.96) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Barbara Corley Dragonfly Design has some at http://DragonflyDesignStudio.com/Pages/Frame= 7.html I can't remember where else I've seen them. Barbara Orlaith wrote: The problem is that I have decided to use metal eyes to thread the lacing at the back. The question is where to find them. =

Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 20:53:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA15311 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 20:53:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA00231; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 20:13:18 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA14520 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 20:13:09 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.bellatlantic.net (mail1.bellatlantic.net [199.45.32.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA14507 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 20:13:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from thibault.org (client-151-197-111-149.bellatlantic.net [151.197.111.149]) by mail1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA01433 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 22:16:43 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <38570751.781D2CD4@thibault.org> Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 22:13:29 -0500 From: Cynthia Virtue Organization: Virtue Ventures http://www.virtue.to X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Tatoo history/theories References: <0.25cf086f.25884f54@aol.com> <385703CE.D2009ABE@gti.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cynthia Virtue Then, for the truly butch, there is the traditional Hawai'ian method, which I saw on some PBS program a while back, involving black dye and sharpened bamboo sticks, with lots of driving the bamboo into the client, to get the ink/dye to penetrate beneath the skin. Major pain, but as the traditional style apparently dovetails with traditional religious practice, it's for a purpose. -- It wasn't until the astonishing success of Dicken's _A Christmas Carol_ that the holiday had any significant place in the English-speaking world. Easter was considered much more significant. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 20:56:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA15315 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 20:56:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA00532; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 20:16:34 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA15074 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 20:16:27 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA15067 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 20:16:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from wanda (pa-ppp36.hevanet.com [204.119.60.48]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id TAA09645; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 19:15:45 -0800 (PST) From: "Wanda Pease" To: "H-COST" Cc: "Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA) -Garb" Subject: H-COST: For Those Engaged in 12th Night Sewing Madness Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 19:12:07 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Wanda Pease" Also dedicated to those who are thinking of starting a costuming business! Happy Holidays, and Many Blessings Regina Romsey Murphy's Laws of Sewing (Anonymous) Passed to me by a friend who works for Janzen Sportswear as a pattern maker Fusible interfacings always fuse to the iron The serger only eats the customer's garment. If you need 6 buttons, you will find 5 in your button box. The seam you meant to rip out is invariably the other one. When you are in a hurry, the needle eye is always too small. The fabric you forgot to pre-shrink will always shrink the most. The pattern you wanted to make again will have one key piece missing. If you drop something our of your sewing basket, it will be your box of pins... with the cover off. Whenever the construction process is going well the bobbin thread runs out. The magnitude of the goof is in direct proportion to the cost of the fabric. Your lost needle will be found by your son, husband or brother-in-law... while walking around barefoot! Facings tend to be sewn to the wrong side (Opposite sides attract). Collar points don't match, and you've trimmed all the seams. The iron never scorches the garment until its final pressing. Pants seams always rip where they are the most noticeable. The steam iron only burps rusty water on light silk fabric. The sewing machine light usually burns out on Sunday. Pinking shears get dull just by looking at them. Gathering threads always break in the middle. The scissors cut easiest past the buttonhole. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 21:06:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA15326 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 21:06:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA01380; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 20:26:20 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA16565 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 20:26:02 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA16558 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 20:26:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA27603 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 19:25:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-58-65.lightspeed.net [209.165.58.65]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA21946 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 18:32:05 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <01aa01bf46a7$1a57aee0$57d2fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: References: <19991213205700.17969.qmail@hotmail.com> <38571F1B.B58@virgin.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: 2 Inventories! Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 18:49:02 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" Susannah, Why not just go ahead and post them to the list? Send them out once and get everyone, remotely interested included, at the same time. I know it isn't exactly list appropriate but, I think everyone will welcome the change of topic, thus overlooking the 'advertising.' Michelle > > please look for an e-mail tonight from me --but I will be sending it from > > work, so it will be from a different e-mail address --I will put "Year-End > > Inventory" in the subject line. > > btw, I *am* responding individually to everyone who is interested in the Old > > Store Stock (the other inventory sale I am involved with!), and I still have > > alot to respond to. Bear with me, I promise you will hear from me very > > soon. > > Thanks, everyone for your interest! > > > > Susannah > > > > >From: "Susannah Eanes" _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 21:18:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA15341 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 21:18:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA02011; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 20:32:38 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA17623 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 20:32:33 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA17617 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 20:32:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from test (ip96.toronto7.dialup.canada.psi.net [154.5.73.96]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id WAA25927 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 22:32:29 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19991214223129.009fdb90@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 22:31:29 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: question regarding a picture In-Reply-To: <009101bf4574$1343da40$ab55f4d1@pavilion> References: <3.0.1.32.19991212212017.009cb6f0@mail.interlog.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >Just out of curiousity, do you know what kind and what size ribbon? I'm >still in the planning stage for this dress. I believe it was regular 1"(? - the one which is about finger width), and I think she used plain satin. I saw it 2 years ago so the details have faded a bit. >BTW, I've been doing an extensive search all week to find a color photo. If you do find it please let me know - it's been my dream gown for years and years and years! Cheeers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 21:18:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA15345 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 21:18:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA02658; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 20:37:05 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA18322 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 20:36:54 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA18314 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 20:36:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.230.183] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11y5FD-00033I-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 19:36:51 -0800 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 18:35:32 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: H-COST: ugly fashion frivolities Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" I know it's partly a cultural & modern bias on my part, but: 1) foot-binding and the attendant footwear associated therewith, 2) some African tribes' customs [different peoples these] of wearing those huge lip-plugs, and ear-plugs [the Aztecs/Incas/Mayas one also wore these, I think] or of adding necklaces/neck-torcs to elongate the womens' necks. I know it's my own personal bias, but these customs have looked just plain wrong to ME since I first saw depictions of each of them. I know that in their own times/cultures these fashions were and in some cases still are highly thought of. That's just 'jewelry'--I won't start on wearing apparel. {wry grin} -- Carol _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 21:19:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA15352 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 21:19:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA02663; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 20:37:05 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA18336 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 20:36:57 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA18329 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 20:36:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.230.183] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11y5FG-00033I-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 19:36:55 -0800 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 18:46:20 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: WAS: H-COST: re: clothing mistakes : NOW: Piercing of the tongue, in particular In-Reply-To: <0.ea271b23.2587b7d1@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" martyr@gti.net writes: Why exactly does that peeve you? It's a personal statement. >> Albertcat wrote:Yes, it screams "I do what everyone else does!" or "I'm trashy"...to most people. Even piercing your ear can be dangerous. If the cartilage gets infected...good-bye ear! [lobes are pretty safe] And 50 year old tattoos are all ugly. Carol here: On the topic of piercing, I will add one point. My daughter came home with her tongue pierced. I was less than thrilled, but the next day, when we visited our family MD, she asked my daughter when and where she had the procedure done. My daughter told her. After which, our physician informed my daughter that had the person doing the piercing 'missed' by less than a centimeter, my daughter could have ended up with her tongue paralyzed for life. There is a major nerve that runs through it, you see, and if the piercing hits that, it's all she wrote, baby. End of topic for me. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 21:50:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA15380 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 21:50:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA05682; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 21:09:48 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA23712 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 21:09:36 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mtiwmhc10.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc10.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.17]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA23706 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 21:09:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([63.26.193.147]) by mtiwmhc10.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19991215040900.IYDL1849@worldnet.att.net>; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 04:09:00 +0000 Message-ID: <385714A5.959E23C2@worldnet.att.net> Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 20:10:13 -0800 From: don and carolyn richardson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-WNS5.0 (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Knauf, Saragrace T(Z02001)" CC: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: Re: H-COST: Italian Frescos-was New Italian Ren. fan References: <48B956EEB8ADD311822400902775A73A0733AA@nt15pv.apsc.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: don and carolyn richardson "Knauf, Saragrace T(Z02001)" wrote: > > < volumes on Italian Ren frescoes. They're big and pricy but gorgeously > illustrated. >> > Do you know the ISBNs, or authors? I am looking for a reproduction of a > fresco "Pope Celestinus III Grants Privilege of Independence to the > Spedale", by Domenico di Bartolo, 1443. I know it is in RENAISSANCE DRESS > IN ITALY 1400-1500, by Jacqueline Herald, Bell & Hyman, London & Humanities > Press, New Jersey, 1981. ISBN 0-391-02362-4. Color Plate 4 (pg 57). (Part of > THE HISTORY OF DRESS SERIES)-but I haven't been able to find it. > If you want to look at what I am talking about-see > http://www.tiac.net/users/drbeer/joyce/ferrets/frhistpg.htm You probably won't be able to find Herald - I've been looking for *years* for a copy. The first volume of the Frescoes books is called "Italian Frescoes - The Early Renaissance" by Steffi Roettgen, ISBN 0-7892-0139-9. But this frescoe isn't in it. I know I have it in color in another book - let me look and get back to you. Carolyn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 21:55:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA15391 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 21:55:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA06117; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 21:15:15 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA24511 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 21:14:58 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA24504 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 21:14:57 -0700 (MST) From: M311@aol.com Received: from M311@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.75fbc606 (4332) for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 23:14:19 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.75fbc606.25886f9b@aol.com> Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 23:14:19 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: question regarding a picture To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 38 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: M311@aol.com In a message dated 12/13/99 11:23:38 AM Central Standard Time, margo@directcon.net writes: << A woman I know reproduced the the Phoenix gown and >> what she did was used lots of little tabs of ribbon. >> Can anyone point me to a picture of this gown? Kelly m311@aol.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Dec 14 22:14:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA15413 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 22:14:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA07587; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 21:33:49 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA27208 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 21:33:15 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from gti.net (apollo.gti.net [199.171.27.7]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA27198 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 21:33:13 -0700 (MST) From: martyr@gti.net Received: from gti.net (morr0661.gti.net [208.216.122.61]) by gti.net (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA08457 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 23:33:11 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <38571A5A.BB5DC005@gti.net> Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 23:34:40 -0500 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: re: tattoos & culture References: <0.cad9bbf6.25885c5c@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: martyr@gti.net Kelly- > I believe you are right that some people associate tattoos & even > piercings with things that have historically threatened polite, Christian > society & family values-Native Americans' war paint, "violent" savages both > here & abroad in Africa, Asia; then later the sailors, the bikers, punk rockers > etc. This is why it is so visually striking & connote "rebellion," & > anti-social behavior. It just disturbs some people-even on this list it's > caused some rather harsh disagreement & is viewed by some as just hideously > wrong. I think demographics & the culture within those demographics also play a > role in why certain individuals are instinctively turned off by most > manifestations of tribal spirit such as tattoos, bikers, punk rock in the '70s, > rap in the '80s, etc. I don't know why this is. I guess with me the acceptance > of tattooing is pretty much due to the fact that I live very close to NYC & > have hung out in the East Village since age 13. Even in NYC, tattoos are all > the rage in the Village but on the Upper West Side they are not so popular. But > to those of us who accept tattooing as "ok" it just becomes another form of > personal expression. Portraits of children, parents, pets, are very popular > among tattoo people. Have a good night! ~Lisa > . > > In the US I wonder if tatoos also were considered bad or to shy away from > because of the feelings some had of Indians and their warpaint? Maybe it > made them think of that and then think voilent people? Just wondering. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 00:03:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA15602 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 00:03:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA15690; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 23:22:59 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA13830 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 23:22:27 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA13823 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 23:22:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from wanda (pa-ppp36.hevanet.com [204.119.60.48]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id WAA18583 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 22:22:20 -0800 (PST) From: "Wanda Pease" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Tattoo history/theories Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 22:18:45 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: <38570751.781D2CD4@thibault.org> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Wanda Pease" I work for the U.S. Army Recruiting Battalion in Portland, Oregon. Our "area" includes the Pacific, including Hawaii, and American Samoa (how many people out there knew that Samoa is as much an American holding as Puerto Rico? I didn't until I took this job. The people there are considered American citizens, and have American passports.) The U.S. Military is _the_ way off the islands for young people so many of them plan to go in the whole time they are growing up. Since Army regs forbid tattoos showing while you are in uniform, those who choose to keep up the traditional tattooing plan for it. I had one soldier who was reportedly tattooed over his entire body except what would show when he had on a Vee neck T shirt and knee length shorts. I once saw him without his shirt at the battalion picnic, and it was the most incredible artwork of swirls and dots you have ever seen! His were all done with native dyes and sharp bamboo "combs". When we were in New Zealand one of the books we saw in a friends house was a history of the Maori featuring some of the most amazing facial tattoos! I suspect Americans have always considered tattooing as "barbaric". Didn't some of the Eastern tribes do facial tattooing as well as "war paint"? Regina Romsey, OL > -----Original Message- > Subject: H-COST: Tattoo history/theories > > > > -Poster: Cynthia Virtue > > Then, for the truly butch, there is the traditional Hawai'ian method, > which I saw on some PBS program a while back, involving black dye and > sharpened bamboo sticks, with lots of driving the bamboo into the > client, to get the ink/dye to penetrate beneath the skin. Major pain, > but as the traditional style apparently dovetails with traditional > religious practice, it's for a purpose. > > -- > It wasn't until the astonishing success of Dicken's _A Christmas Carol_ > that the holiday had any significant place in the English-speaking > world. Easter was considered much more significant. > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 00:17:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA15661 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 00:17:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA16553; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 23:36:35 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA15562 for h-costume-nopost; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 23:36:27 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA15553 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 23:36:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from wanda (pa-ppp36.hevanet.com [204.119.60.48]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id WAA22025 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 22:36:22 -0800 (PST) From: "Wanda Pease" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Italian Frescos-was New Italian Ren. fan Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 22:32:47 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: <385714A5.959E23C2@worldnet.att.net> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Wanda Pease" I know it is in > RENAISSANCE DRESS > > IN ITALY 1400-1500, by Jacqueline Herald, Bell & Hyman, London > & Humanities > > Press, New Jersey, 1981. ISBN 0-391-02362-4. Color Plate 4 (pg > 57). (Part of > > THE HISTORY OF DRESS SERIES)-but I haven't been able to find it. > > If you want to look at what I am talking about-see > > http://www.tiac.net/users/drbeer/joyce/ferrets/frhistpg.htm > > You probably won't be able to find Herald - I've been looking for > *years* for a copy. You want to really cry? I got my copy of Herald for $8.50 because it had been remaindered. I bought only two more copies to use as gifts, and let it go at that! Regina Romsey, OL > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 01:11:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA15728 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 01:10:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA19442; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 00:30:35 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA21944 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 00:30:27 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA21938 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 00:30:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA17731 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 23:30:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-56.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.56]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA25977 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 23:30:20 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <00ec01bf46d0$c57b5780$b7bbfea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: References: Subject: H-COST: New Italian Ren. fan Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 23:48:25 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" > > RENAISSANCE DRESS > > > IN ITALY 1400-1500, by Jacqueline Herald, Bell & Hyman, London > > & Humanities > > > Press, New Jersey, 1981. ISBN 0-391-02362-4. Color Plate 4 (pg > > 57). (Part of > > You probably won't be able to find Herald - I've been looking for > > *years* for a copy. > > You want to really cry? I got my copy of Herald for $8.50 because it had > been remaindered. I bought only two more copies to use as gifts, and let it > go at that! > > Regina Romsey, OL That wasn't nice. ;( I have been looking too. My library doesn't even have the book in it's catalog, I can't even borrow the thing! Michelle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 01:11:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA15729 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 01:10:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA19447; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 00:30:35 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA21927 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 00:30:20 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.wa.home.com [24.0.2.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA21919 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 00:30:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from [24.9.58.36] by mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991215073018.PETW20526.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> for ; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 23:30:18 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.0c (197) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 23:35:36 -0800 Subject: H-COST: Tattoos From: "R.L. Shep" To: "h-costume" Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19991215073018.PETW20526.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "R.L. Shep" I can tell you that from a traditional Jewish view people are created in the image of God and should not be mutilated - or whatever term you want to use for it. The is one of the major reasons why the Nazi's tattooed Jews in the concentration camps - to humiliate them. Personally have seen some very interesting tattoos in other cultures: Japanese, Tahitian, Berber, etc. - but I would not choose to do that to my own body. ~!~ R.L.Shep http://www.rlshep.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 02:17:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA25947 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 02:17:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA22197; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 01:37:22 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA29133 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 01:36:59 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA29120 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 01:36:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.249] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11y9vc-0002sm-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 00:36:57 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19991214222717.03ad3bc0@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19991214222717.03ad3bc0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 22:30:38 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Clothing Mistakes - several replies In-Reply-To: <0.d2a8da24.2587b89d@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows ><< but her > friends all think my pierced eyebrow is 'cool'. >> > >This position is coverable in period dress? I am old enough to be wearing a cap for almost any period I do, and some other kind of head wrap for those periods not having a cap. This, and the fact that the piercing mostly hides behind my glasses frames, keeps things looking fine. I thought of that before I got the piercing, and had it positioned accordingly. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 02:18:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA26447 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 02:18:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA22231; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 01:37:25 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA29118 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 01:36:58 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA29107 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 01:36:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.249] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11y9vb-0002sm-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 00:36:55 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19991214222443.03aeaab0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 22:26:15 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: RE: Queen Elizabeth's Effigy Corset? In-Reply-To: <199912141505.IAA23341@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >In Piecework magazine last month they talk about the effigy and they >mention the there are bloomers on it. Now, I was scratching my head over >that and was about to ask the list about it. They must have been put on at >a later time as well? "Bloomers" show up in Mary, Queen of Scots's inventories. I would not be surprised to find them in Elizabeth's. Anybody out there have access to any of her inventories? Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 02:18:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA26481 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 02:18:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA22236; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 01:37:25 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA29145 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 01:37:01 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA29135 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 01:37:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.249] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11y9ve-0002sm-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 00:36:58 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19991214223459.03acb970@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 23:48:20 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: they wear different clothes (was Re: H-COST: re: clothing mistakes) In-Reply-To: <38567361.BD809FC1@serv.net> References: <001501bf464f$2e315950$0600a8c0@kjroom> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >Amen! I for one have a tattoo and ears pierced in several places. I am not >trashy. >Judging people by their outsides just proves that some people have ugly >insides. Who >cares if I have an old ugly tattoo when I'm 70? What do you care if my ear >scars? >Sheesh! At least I have my sight, my hearing, my limbs, and my mind! And >last but >not least, my heart. Cynthia > >> Well, my 'peeves' are people who decide that their way of dressing >is the >> right way and the most pleasing to look at. I figure the worst that can happen is that I look my age and my teenage daughter looks hers. After all, I was a Hippie, and we looked pretty strange to our parents. If it wasn't OK for them to laugh then (disagree, yes; laugh, no) then it isn't OK for me to laugh now. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 02:18:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA26490 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 02:18:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA22207; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 01:37:23 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA29112 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 01:36:57 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA29098 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 01:36:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.249] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11y9vZ-0002sm-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 00:36:54 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19991214221258.03aca2e0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 22:23:06 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: H-COST: fashion individualists In-Reply-To: <7A10B95079@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> References: <199912132213.PAA11636@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows There will *always* be people who take the attitude of, "I >don't care how fashionable it is, it looks silly and I'm not wearing it!" Certainly there were period reasons for not wearing the peascod belly doublets, but can anyone quote me one? Stubbes ought to have an opinion here, but I don't have a copy. My curiosity is about the level of fashion individualism in this period. I know we in the 1990's wear pretty much what we like, or we do in California anyway. But our reasons for not liking something aren't necessarily their reasons for not liking it or not wearing it. Are there, in fact, *always* such fashion individualists? Or is there another reason why those who didn't wear it didn't? Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 02:18:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA26499 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 02:18:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA22230; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 01:37:24 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA29166 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 01:37:04 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA29161 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 01:37:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.249] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11y9vh-0002sm-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 00:37:02 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19991214224136.03acb340@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 22:43:13 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: H-COST: 1580 German shoulder cape material? In-Reply-To: <5B38B8D7EED8D211997F00A0C9E57FB91DB6CC@HP-LH3> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >You're talking about a "gollar" I presume. Try making it up in a >light-weight wool lined with silk. Many are very simple, and the lining >doesn't always show. Or of course, save the garment until late >afternoon/early evening. If you line with silk, make sure it's not slippery/shiny silk - or the thing will slip off and end up on the ground all the time. That or make one which fastens in the front. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 02:18:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA26513 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 02:18:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA22221; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 01:37:24 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA29176 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 01:37:06 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA29169 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 01:37:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.249] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11y9vj-0002sm-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 00:37:03 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19991214224456.03ad39f0@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19991214224456.03ad39f0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 22:47:28 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Clothing Mistakes - shoes In-Reply-To: <385697B6.ECE0E6DE@thibault.org> References: <0.585fc772.2583c36c@aol.com> <38526C65.9FB0FB7@polarcomm.com> <004801bf4410$c91008e0$af57fea9@gunsafes> <4.1.19991213035446.00b8def0@pop.slip.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: >> place? And, since this is the 90's, why do shoes have to be so narrow? >> And non-repairable, but so cheaply built they need repair soon after you >> buy them? > >This is my favorite commentary on cheap shoes (or cheap anything, for >that matter): The way I've always heard it put is "Cheap (whatevers) aren't." I usually buy my shoes at the Thrift store, wear them the rest of the way out, and buy another pair. I lucked into a good pair of boots, the kind which were expensive when new, and these I keep repaired because I can. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 02:23:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA29991 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 02:23:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA22186; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 01:37:19 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA29157 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 01:37:02 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA29149 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 01:37:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.249] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11y9vf-0002sm-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 00:37:00 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19991214223807.00a25d50@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 22:39:31 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: 1580 German shoulder cape material? In-Reply-To: <48B956EEB8ADD311822400902775A73A0733AD@nt15pv.apsc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >The sources I have for these shoulder capes worn over the dress is that they >were most commonly made of velvet or fur. Does anyone know of a reference >or picture that shows something a little lighter-like linen? I will be >wearing it in sunny Arizona, and would like the option of something cooler. >Thanks in advance If Germany had been Arizona, the Germans would have done things a little differently. It wasn't. So either do it just like they did, and pray for snow, or do it differently, and wear it all Summer. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 02:23:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA30055 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 02:23:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA22242; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 01:37:26 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA29187 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 01:37:08 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA29180 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 01:37:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.249] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11y9vl-0002sm-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 00:37:05 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19991214225009.03acb100@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 23:32:55 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: footbinding (was Re: H-COST: re: clothing mistakes) In-Reply-To: <0.cad8fb15.25881c8a@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows or bind your feet, in this society >you must put up with some staring and turning up of noses. It's your choice. Avoiding foot binding was never a choice in this country if you were female and born before Birkenstocks became mass-market available. It's always been about too-narrow shoes with pointy toes. My feet are permanently deformed because that's the way women's shoes were built, and are still built. It wasn't my choice, especially since going barefoot was prohibited in those same schools to which I was compelled, by law, to attend. When I was in high school (middle 60's), wearing men's round-toed white tennis shoes for gym instead of the painfully shaped women's pointy-toed ones got me stared at and got noses turned up in my direction. Wearing comfortable European foot-shaped shoes like Birkenstocks is still not acceptable interview wear, nor are these perceived as acceptable when worn with a woman's business suit. Business casual, yes; business suit, no. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 02:25:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA31769 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 02:25:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA22859; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 01:45:15 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA29996 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 01:45:08 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA29981 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 01:45:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion ([63.27.112.38]) by mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with SMTP id <19991215084432.QSDN14377@pavilion> for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 08:44:32 +0000 From: "Connie Carroll" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: New Italian Ren. fan Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 03:40:07 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 In-Reply-To: <00ec01bf46d0$c57b5780$b7bbfea9@gunsafes> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Connie Carroll" Copies do surface from time to time. I got mine at a SCA event 10 years ago. The lady managed to get ahold of 15 copies. I would suggest to keep seaching bookstores online and off. Kassandra -Poster: "Michelle" > > RENAISSANCE DRESS > > > IN ITALY 1400-1500, by Jacqueline Herald, Bell & Hyman, London > > & Humanities > > > Press, New Jersey, 1981. ISBN 0-391-02362-4. Color Plate 4 (pg > > 57). (Part of > > You probably won't be able to find Herald - I've been looking for > > *years* for a copy. > > You want to really cry? I got my copy of Herald for $8.50 because it had > been remaindered. I bought only two more copies to use as gifts, and let it > go at that! > > Regina Romsey, OL That wasn't nice. ;( I have been looking too. My library doesn't even have the book in it's catalog, I can't even borrow the thing! Michelle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 02:25:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA31884 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 02:25:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA22914; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 01:45:34 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA00172 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 01:45:21 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA00157 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 01:45:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion ([63.27.112.38]) by mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with SMTP id <19991215084448.QSED14377@pavilion> for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 08:44:48 +0000 From: "Connie Carroll" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Re: The King and I Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 03:40:23 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 In-Reply-To: <199912141449.HAA20170@net.indra.com> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Connie Carroll" Yes, she was a remarkable woman but what the movies don't tell you is once the King died and his son became he never communicated with Miss Leonowens. Kassandra -----Original Message----- Ann Leonowens was a remarkable woman and her books about life in the Siamese Court are some of the only records of life there. Even though the biographers on the program disputed the truthfulness of her stories, they praised her for pluck and determination for making herself a place in a difficult world. Kathlene _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 02:28:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA02334 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 02:28:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA23096; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 01:48:29 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA00566 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 01:48:25 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA00561 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 01:48:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.249] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11y9vo-0002sm-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 00:37:08 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19991214233648.00b22c30@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19991214233648.00b22c30@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 23:38:49 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: re: clothing mistakes In-Reply-To: <0.cad9bbf6.25885c5c@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >I know for me personally the main reasoning is Biblical. It would have to be >about destorying the temple of your body. One of the many things I don't understand about your religion is why tattoos are destroying the temple of one's body, and ear piercing, common among women of the period in which that book was written, is not. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 02:37:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA10122 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 02:37:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA23328; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 01:57:53 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA01456 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 01:57:49 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA01450 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 01:57:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.249] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11y9vr-0002sm-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 00:37:11 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19991214234950.00c22dc0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 23:50:42 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: re: tattoos & culture In-Reply-To: <38571A5A.BB5DC005@gti.net> References: <0.cad9bbf6.25885c5c@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Tattoos seem to be much more acceptable in Northern California than they ever have been. I am seeing more of them this year than I did last year. Many clean cut and otherwise normal-looking young people are getting them. Many otherwise normal-looking not-so-young people are getting them too. Tattoo calenders are now sold in mainstream places like Barnes and Noble - at least two different ones, as I recall. Some real art is going into tattoo design. I think the popular perception of tattooed people as automatically being trashy or scary is changing. (At the same time, fetishwear is coming out of its closet and going mainstream, and not being perceived as something to hide or be embarrassed about.) >Kelly- > >> I believe you are right that some people associate tattoos & even >> piercings with things that have historically threatened polite, Christian >> society & family values-Native Americans' war paint, "violent" savages both >> here & abroad in Africa, Asia; then later the sailors, the bikers, punk >rockers >> etc. This is why it is so visually striking & connote "rebellion," & >> anti-social behavior. It just disturbs some people-even on this list it's >> caused some rather harsh disagreement & is viewed by some as just hideously >> wrong. I think demographics & the culture within those demographics also >play a >> role in why certain individuals are instinctively turned off by most >> manifestations of tribal spirit such as tattoos, bikers, punk rock in the >'70s, >> rap in the '80s, etc. I don't know why this is. I guess with me the >acceptance >> of tattooing is pretty much due to the fact that I live very close to NYC & >> have hung out in the East Village since age 13. Even in NYC, tattoos are all >> the rage in the Village but on the Upper West Side they are not so >popular. But >> to those of us who accept tattooing as "ok" it just becomes another form of >> personal expression. Portraits of children, parents, pets, are very popular >> among tattoo people. > >Have a good night! >~Lisa > >> . > > > >> >> In the US I wonder if tatoos also were considered bad or to shy away from >> because of the feelings some had of Indians and their warpaint? Maybe it >> made them think of that and then think voilent people? Just wondering. > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 02:39:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA11465 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 02:39:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA23399; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 01:59:25 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA01564 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 01:59:21 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA01557 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 01:59:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.249] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11y9vm-0002sm-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 00:37:07 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19991214233336.00a1e7e0@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19991214233336.00a1e7e0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 23:35:23 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Was ugly clothes, now Anne of Cleves In-Reply-To: <01a601bf46a7$10c08b40$57d2fea9@gunsafes> References: <4.2.0.58.19991213114327.00a48240@djnash.mail.iastate.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows There are several dresses from that part of Germany in M. Davenport's costume book. My copy is so old it doesn't have an ISBN number - sorry. > Has anyone made a copy of the dress Anne of Cleves wore for the betrothal >portrait? I can see that it is a combination overdress with underdress but >I wanted pointers, especially what *not* to do. ;) > There is some details specific to her hat in the Herbert Norris, Tudor >Costume book but, information on the dress itself is lacking. Has anyone >found any sources that gives details on how to do that style of dress? Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 02:49:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA18069 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 02:49:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA24971; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 02:09:47 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA03177 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 02:09:42 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA03167 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 02:09:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion ([63.27.112.38]) by mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with SMTP id <19991215090909.QTSZ14377@pavilion> for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 09:09:09 +0000 From: "Connie Carroll" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Was ugly clothes, now Anne of Cleves Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 04:04:45 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 In-Reply-To: <4.1.19991214233336.00a1e7e0@pop.slip.net> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Connie Carroll" the ISBN numer is 0-517-037165 Kassandra -----Original Message----- -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows There are several dresses from that part of Germany in M. Davenport's costume book. My copy is so old it doesn't have an ISBN number - sorry. > Has anyone made a copy of the dress Anne of Cleves wore for the betrothal >portrait? I can see that it is a combination overdress with underdress but >I wanted pointers, especially what *not* to do. ;) > There is some details specific to her hat in the Herbert Norris, Tudor >Costume book but, information on the dress itself is lacking. Has anyone >found any sources that gives details on how to do that style of dress? Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 03:21:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA23842 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 03:21:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA26013; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 02:41:31 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA11029 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 02:41:00 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from postal.grin.net (root@postal.grin.net [209.104.220.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA11020 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 02:40:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from [208.225.99.203] (ppp203.creative.net [208.225.99.203]) by postal.grin.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA02093; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 01:52:09 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: lilinah@mail.grin.net Message-Id: Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 01:41:18 -0800 To: lilinah@grin.net From: Lilinah biti-Anat Subject: H-COST: 12th Century Muslim Egyptian stockings Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lilinah biti-Anat First, this is cross-posted to all the lists i mentioned these on, so i apologize to those who will see this message more than once. Now, I mentioned that i was making a pair of stockings based on a Medieval Egyptian one. Well, i finally figured out how to manipulate the scans i made of my socks, and they're on line: http://witch.drak.net/lilinah/EgyptKnit1.html It's just one page with a little history of knitting, and pictures of the original find and the ones i made based on it. I will be up-loading charts of the patterns very soon, maybe even tonight, but i will have to write a page of html to go with them :-) I'm entirely self-taught, and i'd never made socks before or done any stranded knitting, and they are only my third knitting project ever. This pair of socks are not authentic reproductions. Mine are knit from the top down, while the original is knit from the toe up. Mine are a wool-blend, while the original is cotton. I'm now making a second pair, NOT based on any existing socks, but rather so i can learn more authentic techniques, like knitting from the toe up, and trying a different kind of authentic heel. When i get a bit farther on the one i've started, i'll scan it too. Anahita Gauri al-shazhiya bint-Karim al-hakim al-Fassi Ride your camel to Beyt Anahita, a Maghribi domicile http://witch.drak.net/lilinah/ Maghribi and Andalusian costuming and other things Near Eastern _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 05:35:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA24068 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 05:35:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA02511; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 04:51:03 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA11977 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 04:50:35 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA11960 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 04:50:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) id <01JJJ2QQ8AR4003HOC@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 11:50:22 GMT Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.56.3]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) with ESMTP id <01JJJ2QN7CXC003VPW@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 11:50:09 +0000 (GMT) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); 15 Dec 99 11:47:19 GMT0BST Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44) ; 15 Dec 99 11:46:58 GMT0BST Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.126) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; 15 Dec 99 11:46:49 GMT0BST Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 11:46:49 +0000 (GMT) From: Teddy Subject: Re: H-COST: Clothing Mistakes In-reply-to: <199912150252.TAA11006@net.indra.com> To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: <928F771968@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Teddy Hi Karen > Oh Teddy, I'm so sorry I missed you in full Cavalier! It must have > been fabulous! Next time I'm over, I want to see more of your stuff!!! I don't even have photographs of me in a lot of my costumes (and a lot of them no longer fit...) Even if I had, my sucess with scanning them has been terrible (Tenebrae can attest to this, she managed to get 3 of them into a viewable form and put them up on a Webpage for me, but it wasn't straightforward.) Next time you're over, perhaps we can have a fashion show.... Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of air and darkness, apparently!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 06:09:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA24138 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 06:09:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA04758; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 05:29:30 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA21766 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 05:29:12 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from one.net.au (lightblue.one.net.au [203.101.17.165]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id FAA21740 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 05:29:07 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 29088 invoked from network); 15 Dec 1999 12:28:34 -0000 Received: from async161-bri-isp-3.nas.one.net.au (HELO pbncomputer) (203.101.59.162) by lightblue.one.net.au with SMTP; 15 Dec 1999 12:28:34 -0000 From: "Megan McConnell" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: RE: Queen Elizabeth's Effigy Corset? Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 22:30:54 +1100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <199912141809.KAA05365@apollo.directcon.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Megan McConnell" Actually there is a pair of drawers in existance from Italian Renaissance times - a friend of mine has a photo of them in one of the books from an Italian museum - and I can't remember which one! Have a terrific Day Megan Visit my website: http://hercountry.com/gentlearts/ ICQ # 57164109 Yahoo Messageing: madilayn Visit D'Realm of the Fairies: http://www.thesitefights.com/fairies Do you fight? http://www.thesitefighs.com > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 06:43:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA24220 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 06:43:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA06510; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 06:02:09 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA29048 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 06:01:57 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from one.net.au (lightblue.one.net.au [203.101.17.165]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA29027 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 06:01:53 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 16422 invoked from network); 15 Dec 1999 13:01:20 -0000 Received: from async161-bri-isp-3.nas.one.net.au (HELO pbncomputer) (203.101.59.162) by lightblue.one.net.au with SMTP; 15 Dec 1999 13:01:20 -0000 From: "Megan McConnell" To: Subject: RE: Santa Cloths (was Re: H-COST: Re: Clothing Mistakes) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 23:03:40 +1100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <25598167.945221925845.JavaMail.imail@slippery> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Megan McConnell" >And wouldn't a presentation of historical Santas be stunning? Kate Stop it at once! There is only 1.5 weeks til christmas - and evil minds (OK: costuming minds - same thing really ) work overtime. However - it would be a great idea. Have a terrific Day Megan Visit my website: http://hercountry.com/gentlearts/ ICQ # 57164109 Yahoo Messageing: madilayn Visit D'Realm of the Fairies: http://www.thesitefights.com/fairies Do you fight? http://www.thesitefighs.com > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 07:09:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA24264 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 07:09:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA07931; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 06:28:59 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA06203 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 06:28:38 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA06188 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 06:28:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA18958 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 08:28:35 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 08:28:34 -0500 (EST) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Clothing Mistakes - several replies In-Reply-To: <4.1.19991213035446.00b8def0@pop.slip.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kevin & Mara Riley On Mon, 13 Dec 1999, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > Symmetrical shoes. My big toe is the longest, so why is the pointy part > adjacent to my middle toe? And why do shoes have to be pointy in the first > place? And, since this is the 90's, why do shoes have to be so narrow? > And non-repairable, but so cheaply built they need repair soon after you > buy them? > > snip Hey, now -- my middle toe is longer than the other ones (yes, I know that's unusal), so maybe the shoe designers have feet like mine (grin)! -- Mara _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 07:32:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA24282 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 07:32:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA09069; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 06:51:44 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA12584 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 06:51:33 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bodyguard.apsc.com (bodyguard.apsc.com [137.91.114.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA12575 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 06:51:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailhub.apsc.com (mailhub.apsc.commailhub.apsc.com [137.91.1.30]) by apsc.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA23210 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 07:07:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from nt219.apsc.com (nt219.apsc.com [137.91.1.75]) by mailhub.apsc.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA19119 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 06:51:29 -0700 (MST) Received: by nt219.apsc.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 06:51:32 -0700 Message-ID: <48B956EEB8ADD311822400902775A73A0733BD@nt15pv.apsc.com> From: "Knauf, Saragrace T(Z02001)" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: 1580 German shoulder cape material? Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 06:51:21 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Knauf, Saragrace T(Z02001)" <> Gee thanks for the reproof-I wasn't looking for an excuse to do something different from what they did, I was looking for a reference to whether they did do something different. I have lived in Germany, and though it isn't as warm as Arizona-they do have summers. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 07:35:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA24292 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 07:35:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA09335; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 06:55:19 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA13705 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 06:55:16 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA13692 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 06:55:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA23139 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 08:55:12 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 08:55:11 -0500 (EST) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: re: clothing mistakes In-Reply-To: <0.25cf086f.25884f54@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kevin & Mara Riley On Tue, 14 Dec 1999 AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > Yes....and discuss tattoos instead of emoting over them. > > Where do they come from? Why in Western culture should they have a negative > connotation? I find this interesting. (snip) I believe that tattoos got a bad rap in Western culture because of their being forbidden in the Old Testament (partly). I've read that tattoos were not uncommon among members of certain medieval trade guilds, but can't lay my hands on that particular piece of info right now. They fell into disfavor at some point (?), but had a resurgence when sailors started coming into contact with cultures in the South Seas who used them for tribal markings. --Does anyone know whether tattoos were used by sailors for purposes of identification (in case one drowned)? I've also read that sailors sometimes wore an earring so that they had something of value (the gold earring) to pay for their burial if they died far from home. But I don't know if that's an old salty tale or whether it has a basis in fact. Mara (One of these days I'm going to get that red snake tattoo... but it will have personal/spiritual significance to me, and will NOT be in a place where people can see it (i.e., lower back)). _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 07:48:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA24311 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 07:48:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA12197; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 07:08:26 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA17425 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 07:08:19 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.3]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA17409 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 07:08:17 -0700 (MST) From: DDunker@aol.com Received: from DDunker@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.887b45d0 (3978) for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 09:07:42 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.887b45d0.2588faae@aol.com> Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 09:07:42 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: re: clothing mistakes To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 39 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: DDunker@aol.com Please can we DROP this subject? Let's move on before the list is ruined with people discussing the very thing that makes us great, our differences. Darla _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 08:17:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA24354 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 08:17:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA14689; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 07:36:56 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA26418 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 07:36:44 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from eclipse.pacifier.com (eclipse.pacifier.com [199.2.117.78]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA26405 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 07:36:43 -0700 (MST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: from grendal2 (ip74.van15.pacifier.com [216.65.137.74]) by eclipse.pacifier.com (8.9.3/8.9.3pop) with SMTP id GAA02700 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 06:36:32 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199912151436.GAA02700@eclipse.pacifier.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 06:39:52 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: H-COST: RE: Queen Elizabeth's Effigy Corset? Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <199912141809.KAA05365@apollo.directcon.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > Actually there is a pair of drawers in existance from Italian Renaissance > times - a friend of mine has a photo of them in one of the books from an > Italian museum - and I can't remember which one! Milia Davenport's costume book has pictures of Italian drawers (2 sets). Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 08:34:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA24409 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 08:34:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA16726; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 07:53:44 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA02641 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 07:53:18 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from crcst351.netaddress.usa.net (crcst351.netaddress.usa.net [204.68.23.96]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA02627 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 07:53:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 19336 invoked from network); 15 Dec 1999 14:54:01 -0000 Received: from nwcst291.netaddress.usa.net (204.68.23.36) by outbound.netaddress.usa.net with SMTP; 15 Dec 1999 14:54:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 20678 invoked by uid 60001); 15 Dec 1999 14:53:22 -0000 Message-ID: <19991215145322.20677.qmail@nwcst291.netaddress.usa.net> Received: from 204.68.23.36 by nwcst291 for [209.122.3.5] via web-mailer(M3.4.0.33) on Wed Dec 15 14:53:22 GMT 1999 Date: 15 Dec 99 07:53:22 MST From: Orlaith To: Subject: H-COST: Supplies help thanks X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (M3.4.0.33) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id HAA02632 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Orlaith Thanks guys...I knew that I could count on you to come through with the help I needed. Kyna I will probably be contacting you today as what you have is exactly what I'm looking for...the eye/eye combination of clasps. Plus now I have lots of new web catalogs to look through :) Beth Orlaith of Storvik Baheera Nafeesa Bint Akil but...WHY DID THE CHICKEN CROSS THE ROAD? FOX MULDER: You saw it cross the road with your own eyes. How many more chickens have to cross before you believe it? ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 08:46:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA24420 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 08:46:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA18432; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 08:04:44 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA06572 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 08:04:37 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from crcst347.netaddress.usa.net (crcst347.netaddress.usa.net [204.68.23.92]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA06561 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 08:04:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 7591 invoked from network); 15 Dec 1999 14:44:53 -0000 Received: from nw174.netaddress.usa.net (HELO .netaddress.usa.net) (204.68.24.74) by outbound.netaddress.usa.net with SMTP; 15 Dec 1999 14:44:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 3200 invoked by uid 60001); 15 Dec 1999 15:04:35 -0000 Message-ID: <19991215150435.3199.qmail@.netaddress.usa.net> Received: from 204.68.24.74 by nw174 for [209.122.3.5] via web-mailer(M3.4.0.33) on Wed Dec 15 15:04:35 GMT 1999 Date: 15 Dec 99 08:04:35 MST From: Orlaith To: Subject: H-COST: Anna and the King X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (M3.4.0.33) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id IAA06564 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Orlaith I saw a preview of Anna and the King last night. A real GO SEE. I told my mom that it is on top of next year's christmas list. The period is wrong for me to judge much about the costumes, but the thing that stood out as wrong was she had skirts and blouses on for most of the movie. I seem to recall a conversation on the list a while ago about skirt and blouses out of different materials not being period for the civil war era. The credits listed them working with eastern clothing historians and they looked pretty good to me....of course I am looking at them as OHHHH pretty and it looks generally right rather then the is that historically correct. Just hope that when you go see it they don't make the same mistake this theater did...they reversed reels 2 and 3. Funny I don't remember the ball coming before she is introduced to the children or Tuck Tim Orlaith This employee is depriving a village somewhere of its idiot. ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 08:57:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA24438 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 08:57:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA19715; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 08:15:30 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA10183 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 08:15:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA10161 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 08:15:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA22139 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 10:15:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA10492 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 10:15:48 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 10:15:47 -0500 (EST) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: fashion individualists In-Reply-To: <4.1.19991214221258.03aca2e0@pop.slip.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: aleed > > Certainly there were period reasons for not wearing the peascod belly > doublets, but can anyone quote me one? Stubbes ought to have an opinion > here, but I don't have a copy. Oh, he ranted and raved about it at great length: "Their dublettes are noe lesse monstrous than the reste; For now the fashion is to have them hang down to the middle of their theighes, or at least to their privie members, beeing so harde-quilted, and stuffed, bombasted and sewed, as they can neither woorke, nor yet well plaie in them, through the excessive heate thereof: and therefore are forced to wear them loose about them for the most part: otherwise they could verie hardly eyther stoupe downe, or bowe themselves to the grounde, soe styffe and sturdy they stand about them. Now, what handsomnes can be in these dubblettes which stand on their bellies like, or muche bigger than, a mans codpeece ( so as their bellies are thi their bellies are thicker than all their bodyes besyde) let wyse men judge; For for my parte, handsomnes in them I see none, and muche lesse profyte. And to be plaine, I never sawe any weare them, but I supposed him to be a man inclined to gourmandice, gluttonie, and such like. For what may these great bellies signifie else than that either they are such, or els are affected that way? ...For certain I am there was never any kinde of appatell ever invented that could more disproportion the body of man than these Dublets with great bellies, hanging down beneath their Pudenda (as I have said), & stuffed with foure, five or six pound of Bombast at the least. I say nothing of what their Dublets be made, some of Saten, Taffatie, silk, Grograine, Chamlet, gold, silver, & what not; slashed, jagged, cut, carved, pincked and laced with all kinde of costly lace of divers and sundry colours, for if I should stand upon these particularities, rather time then matter would be wanting." In the 1877 edition of Stubbes' Anatomie, there's a woodcut of two men: one a fashionable english gentleman, with a peascod doublet close-fitted to his body, and the other a countryman, no peascod in sight. Drea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 10:41:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24597 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 10:41:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03232; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 10:00:21 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA20989 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 09:59:48 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from edtnps05.telusplanet.net (edtnps05.telusplanet.net [198.161.157.105]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA20969 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 09:59:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from clgrtnt2-port-6.agt.net ([161.184.43.6]:1027 "HELO Freya") by smtp2.telusplanet.net with SMTP id ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 10:03:06 -0700 X-Sender: agottfre@pop.telusplanet.net (Unverified) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: agottfre@telusplanet.net (Angela Gottfred) Subject: RE: H-COST: Tattoo history/theories X-Mailer: Message-Id: <19991215170318Z23161-7582+14@smtp2.telusplanet.net> Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 10:03:06 -0700 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: agottfre@telusplanet.net (Angela Gottfred) "Wanda Pease" wrote: >>Didn't some of the Eastern tribes do facial tattooing as well as "war paint"?<< Women in one of the largest Native groups in Canada, the Cree, traditionally tattooed their faces. One, two, or three stripes went down from the centre of the lower lip down to the chin; stripes also went from the corner of the mouth to the side of the face. I don't recall any references to Cree men getting tattoos, but voyageurs sometimes did (c. 1800). Your humble & obedient servant, Angela Gottfred _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 10:51:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24613 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 10:51:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA04343; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 10:10:03 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA25042 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 10:09:53 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA25016 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 10:09:50 -0700 (MST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.6a7c0dbe (3311) for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 12:09:15 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.6a7c0dbe.2589253b@aol.com> Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 12:09:15 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Clothing Mistakes - several replies To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 44 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 12/15/1999 3:39:19 AM Eastern Standard Time, kayta@slip.net writes: << I am old enough to be wearing a cap for almost any period I do, and some other kind of head wrap for those periods not having a cap. >> Thank God....I thought you might be wearing a bustle or pannier on your head! [I'm KIDDING!] :-) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 10:58:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24628 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 10:58:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA05530; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 10:17:59 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA28315 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 10:17:49 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA28291 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 10:17:46 -0700 (MST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.de63713f (3311) for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 12:17:12 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.de63713f.25892718@aol.com> Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 12:17:12 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: fashion individualists To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 44 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 12/15/1999 3:39:19 AM Eastern Standard Time, kayta@slip.net writes: << Are there, in fact, *always* such fashion individualists? >> I'd say not in social circles....where *fashion* originates [Working people do not create fashion.....unless of course someone in the social set decides a "work look" is fashionable.] Remember there are often strict rules as to what one may wear to where ever...the opera, a ball, court. Could we tell the difference between an opera gown & a ball gown? Someone in every period could. My mother laments to this day about: "Everything was great 'til the 60s and that 'do your own thing' mentality." What she means is before the 60's you wore a cocktail dress for a cocktail party and a dinner dress to a dinner party. You didn't just wear jeans everywhere. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 11:05:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24652 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 11:05:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06086; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 10:23:38 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA00520 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 10:23:28 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA00503 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 10:23:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA01345 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 09:23:54 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3857CEDF.726FFA45@serv.net> Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 09:24:47 -0800 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: carnation References: <19991214.204442.-32587.0.seamstrix@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > My understanding is that it is actually the color of raw flesh, which > could be understood as a deep shade of pink, I suppose, depending on the > flesh in question! At the risk of being crude, all flesh, when raw, the same color. Flesh not being skin, but under the skin, is all the same color. Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of AnTir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 11:12:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24678 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 11:12:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA07330; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 10:31:19 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA03669 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 10:31:13 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03655 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 10:31:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r9p28.directcon.net [206.170.184.127]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA05205 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 09:31:04 -0800 Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 09:31:04 -0800 Message-Id: <199912151731.JAA05205@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: RE: Santa Cloths (was Re: H-COST: Re: Clothing Mistakes) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson > >>And wouldn't a presentation of historical Santas be stunning? > If you're interested in this subjuect, check out the doll collecting magazines. Santas are a popular specialty, and the variety is huge. There are some stunning Santas being made, with wonderful costuming. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 11:13:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24682 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 11:13:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA07456; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 10:31:45 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA03859 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 10:31:39 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo23.mx.aol.com (imo23.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.67]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03831 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 10:31:37 -0700 (MST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.c316fb42 (3311) for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 12:31:01 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.c316fb42.25892a55@aol.com> Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 12:31:01 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: re: tattoos & culture To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 44 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 12/15/1999 3:58:23 AM Eastern Standard Time, kayta@slip.net writes: << think the popular perception of tattooed people as automatically being trashy or scary is changing. >> Me too. But then I thought about long hair & beards on men. When I was a teen, this was "a personal expression". I even got thrown out of English class once because the teacher thought my hair was too long. [I was never sure what the length of my hair had to do with my ability to learn English...but I was delighted to skip class!] Today you might say....as I did....long hair is acceptable. But is it? Was it? I look at "TV Land" and notice on episodes of "Welcome Back Carter" that, yes John Travolta has long-ish hair, but not long hair. No one does. It all stops about mid ear. If Prime Time TV is an indicator of what TV exec's think will be acceptable to the general public, how acceptable is long hair even in the seventies? Also consider: Is a man with shoulder length hair more likely to get that Wall Street job than a clean cut guy.....even today? How about that Graphic Artist opening at the ad agency? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 11:16:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24702 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 11:16:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA07980; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 10:35:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA05316 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 10:35:07 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bodyguard.apsc.com (bodyguard.apsc.com [137.91.114.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA05294 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 10:35:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailhub.apsc.com (mailhub.apsc.commailhub.apsc.com [137.91.1.30]) by apsc.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA09251; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 10:50:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from nt170.apsc.com (nt170.apsc.com [137.91.1.61]) by mailhub.apsc.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA07754; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 10:34:58 -0700 (MST) Received: by nt170.apsc.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 10:34:57 -0700 Message-ID: <48B956EEB8ADD311822400902775A73A0733BE@nt15pv.apsc.com> From: "Knauf, Saragrace T(Z02001)" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Cc: "'aleed@dnaco.net'" Subject: RE: H-COST: fashion individualists Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 10:34:56 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Knauf, Saragrace T(Z02001)" Might this person have made similar comments about the breeches(upperstocks) men wore of the same period? I always wondered if some men rejected the pumpkin type. Would anyone of fashion stuck with a more moderate pair of breeches (in my mind, I mean canions, tight breeches which fit just above the knee) or would they have been considered individualists. Most of the pictures I have seen show men in the former not the latter. The reason I ask is my husband refuses to wear the puffy ones and I haven't been able to convince him that anyone would have worn the other. -Poster: aleed > > Certainly there were period reasons for not wearing the peascod belly > doublets, but can anyone quote me one? Stubbes ought to have an opinion > here, but I don't have a copy. Oh, he ranted and raved about it at great length: "Their dublettes are noe lesse monstrous than the reste; For now the fashion is to have them hang down to the middle of their theighes, or at least to their privie members, beeing so harde-quilted, and stuffed, bombasted and sewed, as they can neither woorke, nor yet well plaie in them, through the excessive heate thereof: and therefore are forced to wear them loose about them for the most part: otherwise they could verie hardly eyther stoupe downe, or bowe themselves to the grounde, soe styffe and sturdy they stand about them. Now, what handsomnes can be in these dubblettes which stand on their bellies like, or muche bigger than, a mans codpeece ( so as their bellies are thi their bellies are thicker than all their bodyes besyde) let wyse men judge; For for my parte, handsomnes in them I see none, and muche lesse profyte. And to be plaine, I never sawe any weare them, but I supposed him to be a man inclined to gourmandice, gluttonie, and such like. For what may these great bellies signifie else than that either they are such, or els are affected that way? ...For certain I am there was never any kinde of appatell ever invented that could more disproportion the body of man than these Dublets with great bellies, hanging down beneath their Pudenda (as I have said), & stuffed with foure, five or six pound of Bombast at the least. I say nothing of what their Dublets be made, some of Saten, Taffatie, silk, Grograine, Chamlet, gold, silver, & what not; slashed, jagged, cut, carved, pincked and laced with all kinde of costly lace of divers and sundry colours, for if I should stand upon these particularities, rather time then matter would be wanting." In the 1877 edition of Stubbes' Anatomie, there's a woodcut of two men: one a fashionable english gentleman, with a peascod doublet close-fitted to his body, and the other a countryman, no peascod in sight. Drea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 11:27:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24749 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 11:27:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08932; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 10:43:19 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA08429 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 10:43:05 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d08.mx.aol.com (imo-d08.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.40]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08415 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 10:43:02 -0700 (MST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.2200bf44 (3311) for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 12:42:23 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.2200bf44.25892cfe@aol.com> Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 12:42:22 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: re: clothing mistakes To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 44 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 12/15/1999 9:11:42 AM Eastern Standard Time, DDunker@aol.com writes: << Please can we DROP this subject? Let's move on before the list is ruined with people discussing the very thing that makes us great, our differences. >> So... celebrate our diversity but pretend we're all the same? You don't have to participate or read the tread if you don't like it but I have found everyone's comments interesting....even the flames. Just skip it if it bothers you. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 11:33:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24767 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 11:33:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA10030; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 10:52:21 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA11898 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 10:52:04 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bigred.unl.edu (00217146@bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA11881 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 10:52:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (00217146@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA06389 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 11:57:06 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 11:57:06 -0600 (CST) From: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: "long-haired hippie freaks..." In-Reply-To: <0.c316fb42.25892a55@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> > Also consider: Is a man with shoulder length hair more likely to get that > Wall Street job than a clean cut guy.....even today? How about that Graphic > Artist opening at the ad agency? Recently there was a big hullaballoo at the University of Nebraska when a long-haired (male) law student was refused a place in a workshop/class that would be dealing with real cases and appearing in court because of the length of his hair. Standards are constantly being challanged, and challange allows change. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 11:35:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24771 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 11:35:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA10310; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 10:53:53 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA12550 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 10:53:48 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from m2.jersey.juno.com (m2.jersey.juno.com [209.67.34.60]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA12536 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 10:53:46 -0700 (MST) Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.jersey.juno.com (queuemail) id ETV8MRDS; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 12:52:11 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 11:50:39 -0600 Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: carnation Message-ID: <19991215.115040.-3705713.0.seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.13 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 4-13 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Karen R Bergquist Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Karen R Bergquist I'm perfectly willing to believe that all humans are the same shade under the skin, I know for a fact that food animals are not the same color, there is a noticable difference between beef and pork, and a dramatic difference between hooved animal flesh and fowl flesh. So I suppose that it would depend on which flesh we were discussing. Karen > At the risk of being crude, all flesh, when raw, the same color. > Flesh not > being skin, but under the skin, is all the same color. > > Cynthia > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 11:55:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24817 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 11:55:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13569; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 11:14:26 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA20440 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 11:13:29 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail2.uts.ohio-state.edu (mail2.uts.ohio-state.edu [128.146.214.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA20418 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 11:13:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from mai040RS1.lib.ohio-state.edu (mai040rs1.lib.ohio-state.edu [128.146.115.31]) by mail2.uts.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA18521 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 13:13:25 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19991215131810.006be8ec@pop.service.ohio-state.edu> X-Sender: mhamilto@pop.service.ohio-state.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 13:18:10 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Marsha J. Hamilton" Subject: Re: H-COST: Acapulco In-Reply-To: <199912100525.AAA01552@bajor.ici.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Marsha J. Hamilton" I made two trips to Mexico in the early 70's and early 80's (total of six weeks). Undoubtedly things have changed but...at that time, Acapulco was so touristy as to be unrecognizable as Mexico. I wouldn't look for much there in the way of textiles. A good place for textiles is Oaxaca, where they do a lot of colored embroidery on cotton (shirts, dresses, etc.) and you can also get very nice traditional black silk rebozos (shawls) or more tourist-oriented shawls of cotton in many colors and styles, rugs, and wool ponchos. Different cities specialize in different items: Taxco is a silver center, Oaxaca is textiles and black pottery, etc. However, all the areas seem to send their materials to Mexico City, which is the only place I know of that carries some of the best of the wares from all over the country (although at a higher price than getting it locally). In addition, Mexico City has incredible antique shops, markets (mercados), etc. Acapulco's beach is BEAUTIFUL but it's not really "Mexico" anymore than DisneyWorld is representative of the United States. The prices are also very high since the local economy seems totally dependant on international tourism. Personal opinion--no offense meant. ------------------- At 12:24 AM 12/10/99 -0500, you wrote: >I've recently learned that I'm going to be taking a trip to Acapulco in >February. As all the literature on the web seems geared towards the >sun-worshipping type of person (which I'm not), I thought I'd ask you >folks for advice. > >Has anyone been there? Do you have any advice about activities, places >to see, items to shop for? Obviously I'm interested in anything having >to do with fabric :) but I'd also be interested in whatever local >handcrafts may be available. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 11:57:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24821 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 11:57:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13826; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 11:16:20 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA21691 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 11:16:16 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA21683 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 11:16:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA03361 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 10:16:43 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3857DB40.FBD1486D@serv.net> Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 10:17:36 -0800 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: re: tattoos & culture References: <0.c316fb42.25892a55@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > Also consider: Is a man with shoulder length hair more likely to get that > Wall Street job than a clean cut guy.....even today? How about that Graphic > Artist opening at the ad agency? But maybe that man with long hair or that woman with a tattoo don't *want* that job. And I, for one, think this is changing. There are several ads on TV right now showing young people with pink or yellow hair giving their parents *good* advise on purchasing stock and that type of thing. An obvious statement about our changing times. Thank God our social mores are changing from the stuffed shirt, judgemental views that judge a person's intelligence and worth by the color of their hair or skin, be it natural or decorative to something more forgiving, more in tune with our insides. Fwiw and my $.02, Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of AnTir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 12:31:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24881 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 12:31:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA17792; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 11:45:36 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA00305 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 11:45:20 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.70]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA00278 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 11:45:18 -0700 (MST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.9f65b4d0 (3311) for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 13:44:44 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.9f65b4d0.25893b9c@aol.com> Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 13:44:44 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: re: tattoos & culture To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 44 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 12/15/1999 1:19:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, keltia@serv.net writes: << There are several ads on TV right now showing young people with pink or yellow hair giving their parents *good* advise on purchasing stock and that type of thing. >> But these ads use a reversal of the prevailing attitude as a joke. I don't see it as an indication of change but a confirmation of the norm. <> Where is this happening? It may be shifting but it's not disappearing, this judgment. It will never disappear. I don't mean to be cynical but I think it's just the way our brains work. Some individuals deal with it better than others....that's for sure! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 12:34:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24891 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 12:34:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA18967; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 11:52:55 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA02493 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 11:52:47 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02476 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 11:52:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.215] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11yJXX-0005FJ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 10:52:44 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19991215004231.00c20aa0@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19991215004231.00c20aa0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 00:46:55 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: H-COST: Tattoo history/theories In-Reply-To: References: <38570751.781D2CD4@thibault.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > When we were in New Zealand one of the books we saw in a friends house >was a history of the Maori featuring some of the most amazing facial >tattoos! There's a Samoan or Maori working at a local grocery store. He has several geometric tattoos on his arms, and told me a little about it. He says yes, it takes a long time and it hurts, but there's a big ceremony which goes with it, with a lot of support for the tattooee. Ocasionally he gets to go back home for additions. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 12:43:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24907 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 12:43:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA19586; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 11:58:09 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA24926 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 11:27:39 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp7.atl.mindspring.net (smtp7.atl.mindspring.net [207.69.128.51]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24906 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 11:27:36 -0700 (MST) From: scootnik@ix.netcom.com Received: from sac-ca44-16.ix.netcom.com (sac-ca44-16.ix.netcom.com [206.214.249.144]) by smtp7.atl.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA18111 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 13:27:34 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 13:27:34 -0500 (EST) To: h-costume@indra.com Message-Id: <1999121510233746334@ix.netcom.com> Subject: H-COST: Underpinnings books X-Mailer: Netcomplete v4.0, from NETCOM On-Line Communications, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: scootnik@ix.netcom.com Hi All, I'm new here and new to Costuming as well. Could some one please suggest a book (or two...) that gives the proper undergarments to wear for period costumes. I'd like a book specifically on Corsetry as well. The time span needs to be fairly wide for both subjects, I'd like a good overview rather that a book on just one era. Thanks for your help, please excuse if this subject has been covered here before, Lynne _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 12:51:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24923 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 12:51:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA20437; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 12:05:07 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA07159 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 12:04:57 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA07141 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 12:04:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA05445 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 11:05:22 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3857E6A7.E2332C06@serv.net> Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 11:06:16 -0800 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Underpinnings books References: <1999121510233746334@ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > Hi All, I'm new here and new to Costuming as well. Could some one please > suggest a book (or two...) that gives the proper undergarments to wear for > period costumes. Welcome! I'm sure many folks have info. Can you elaborate with a place and time? :) ~M~ -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of AnTir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 12:51:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24927 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 12:51:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA20555; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 12:05:53 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA07494 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 12:05:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA07484 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 12:05:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA05099 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 14:05:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA17431 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 14:06:28 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 14:06:28 -0500 (EST) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Underpinnings books In-Reply-To: <1999121510233746334@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: aleed Corsets & Crinolines by Nora Waugh is the best comprehensive book on the history of corsets, hoopskirts and fashionable support around. It contains patterns for various corsets & hoops,lots of contemporary literary quotes and references, and good info of all sorts. She covers 1600 to around 1920. Drea On Wed, 15 Dec 1999 scootnik@ix.netcom.com wrote: > > -Poster: scootnik@ix.netcom.com > > Hi All, I'm new here and new to Costuming as well. Could some one please > suggest a book (or two...) that gives the proper undergarments to wear for > period costumes. I'd like a book specifically on Corsetry as well. The time > span needs to be fairly wide for both subjects, I'd like a good overview > rather that a book on just one era. Thanks for your help, please excuse if > this subject has been covered here before, Lynne > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 13:19:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA25021 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 13:19:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24200; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 12:37:06 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA17171 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 12:37:00 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from scl-ims.phoenix.com (scl-ims.phoenix.com [134.122.1.73]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA17163 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 12:36:59 -0700 (MST) Received: by scl-ims.phoenix.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 11:36:31 -0800 Message-ID: <1F176F2C2977D311B3300090270E63784D2AF8@scl-exch.phoenix.com> From: Cynthia Barnes To: "H-Costume (E-mail)" Subject: H-COST: fashion individualists Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 11:36:55 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cynthia Barnes >Oh, he [Stubbes] ranted and raved about it at great length... Thank-you, Drea, that was a hoot! On to a different fashion conceit, the most incomprehendable to me was the short fad to look pregnant in the 19th c. In Paris, you could by "tournures a 3, 4 et 6 mois" -- pads for 3, 4 and 6 months. There's a cartoon from Punch showing the side view cut-away of the well-padded woman. --cin Cynthia Barnes 408.570.1023 Cynthia_Barnes@phoenix.com Phoenix Technologies 411 E. Plumeria Dr. San Jose CA 95134 "I think animal testing is a terrible idea; they get all nervous and give the wrong answers." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 13:23:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA25036 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 13:23:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24834; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 12:42:20 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA18572 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 12:42:08 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.cho.org (mail.cho.org [209.77.137.36]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA18557 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 12:42:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from [172.19.1.106] ([172.19.1.106]) by mail.cho.org; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 11:41:41 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: ldownward@198.211.240.120 Message-Id: Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 11:42:57 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lynn Downward Subject: H-COST: Fwd: OT: QEI Poll Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lynn Downward >From another list I'm on: >Not a particularly interesting bit of knowledge, but one pertinant to >our little cause. The Internet Movie Database is currently taking a >poll on who has played the best Queen Elizabeth. Cate Blanchett is in >the lead with Judi Dench in a relatively close second. For all of you >interested in placing your votes the URL is: > >http:\\www.imdb.com LynnD _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 13:26:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA25046 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 13:26:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA25172; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 12:45:33 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA19362 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 12:45:24 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA19346 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 12:45:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA06915; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 11:45:48 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3857F021.B4E91C86@serv.net> Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 11:46:41 -0800 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historic Needlework , Historical Costume , SCA Garb Subject: H-COST: Period waleless corduroy!! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris Oh, and the alb is dated 1320-1340. Merouda/Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of AnTir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 13:28:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA25059 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 13:28:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA25469; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 12:47:51 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA19913 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 12:47:46 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from scl-ims.phoenix.com (scl-ims.phoenix.com [134.122.1.73]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA19902 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 12:47:43 -0700 (MST) Received: by scl-ims.phoenix.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 11:47:19 -0800 Message-ID: <1F176F2C2977D311B3300090270E63784D2B06@scl-exch.phoenix.com> From: Cynthia Barnes To: "H-Costume (E-mail)" Subject: H-COST: Re: carnation Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 11:47:40 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cynthia Barnes >> My understanding is that it is actually the color of raw flesh, which >> could be understood as a deep shade of pink, I suppose, depending on the >> flesh in question! >At the risk of being crude, all flesh, when raw, the same color. Flesh not >being skin, but under the skin, is all the same color. Flesh of what? Trout, veal & chicken all look very different. Point being that I dont think you can reverse-engineer the actual color from the name. Find a contemp. description. Perhaps "Mergatroyd had his picture painted for the Queen. He was wearing that horrid carnation concotion." Then find the picture. Guessing is not good research. --cin Cynthia Barnes 408.570.1023 Cynthia_Barnes@phoenix.com Phoenix Technologies 411 E. Plumeria Dr. San Jose CA 95134 "I think animal testing is a terrible idea; they get all nervous and give the wrong answers." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 13:41:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA25089 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 13:41:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA26750; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 12:57:55 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA22666 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 12:57:39 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bodyguard.apsc.com (bodyguard.apsc.com [137.91.114.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22660 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 12:57:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailhub.apsc.com (mailhub.apsc.commailhub.apsc.com [137.91.1.30]) by apsc.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA19226 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 13:12:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from nt170.apsc.com (nt170.apsc.com [137.91.1.61]) by mailhub.apsc.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA19059 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 12:56:29 -0700 (MST) Received: by nt170.apsc.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 12:56:28 -0700 Message-ID: <48B956EEB8ADD311822400902775A73A0733C3@nt15pv.apsc.com> From: "Knauf, Saragrace T(Z02001)" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Period waleless corduroy!! Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 12:56:21 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Knauf, Saragrace T(Z02001)" I'm new to this subject. What does alb stand for (carbon dating or something?)? And what does waleless corduroy look like? When I try to envision it velveteen comes to mind. -----Original Message----- From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris [mailto:keltia@serv.net] Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 1999 12:47 PM To: Historic Needlework; Historical Costume; SCA Garb Subject: H-COST: Period waleless corduroy!! -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris Oh, and the alb is dated 1320-1340. Merouda/Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of AnTir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 14:08:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25181 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 14:08:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00469; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 13:27:27 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA00328 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 13:26:55 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from wodc7mr3.ffx.ops.us.uu.net (wodc7mr3.ffx.ops.us.uu.net [192.48.96.19]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00303 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 13:26:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from sews080 by wodc7mr3.ffx.ops.us.uu.net with SMTP (peer crosschecked as: og3pool109-80.corp.us.uu.net [153.39.109.80]) id QQhtsz13266; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 20:24:55 GMT Message-Id: From: "Jessica Wilbur" To: "H-COST" Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 15:26:53 -0500 Subject: Re: H-COST: For Those Engaged in 12th Night Sewing Madness CC: "Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA) -Garb" Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.00 beta 6) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Jessica Wilbur" > Murphy's Laws of Sewing (Anonymous) > Whenever the construction process is going well the bobbin thread runs out. And its correlation: The bobbin thread always runs out six inches before the end of a 10 yard hem! --Jessica/Muireann _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 14:26:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25227 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 14:26:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02628; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 13:44:30 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA04742 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 13:44:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from mx2.io.com (IDENT:root@mx2.io.com [199.170.88.18]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA04726 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 13:44:00 -0700 (MST) From: ches@io.com Received: from fnord.io.com (IDENT:ches@fnord.io.com [199.170.88.12]) by mx2.io.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA02258 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 14:43:59 -0600 Received: from localhost (ches@localhost) by fnord.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA25917 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 14:43:59 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fnord.io.com: ches owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 14:43:59 -0600 (EST) To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Period waleless corduroy!! In-Reply-To: <48B956EEB8ADD311822400902775A73A0733C3@nt15pv.apsc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: ches@io.com An Alb is a priest's vestment. From http://www.harcourts.com/clergy.htm Among Christians, for example, the stole, a scarf adopted as the distinctive sign of the ordained minister, was traditionally viewed as a yoke, symbolizing that the wearer was a servant of God. The eucharistic vestments worn by Roman Catholics, Episcopalians, and Lutherans include the alb, a white floor-length tunic (symbolizing purity) tied at the waist with a rope cincture, over which is worn the chasuble, a full cloak put on over the head. The amice, often made in the form of a collar or hood (symbolizing the helmet of salvation), is wrapped around the neck under the alb. The maniple, a length of material worn over the left arm, was originally a napkin and symbolizes the role of the minister as servant of the people of God. Sincerely, F. Havas ches@io.com On Wed, 15 Dec 1999, Knauf, Saragrace T(Z02001) wrote: > Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 12:56:21 -0700 > From: "Knauf, Saragrace T(Z02001)" > Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com > To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" > Subject: RE: H-COST: Period waleless corduroy!! > > > -Poster: "Knauf, Saragrace T(Z02001)" > > I'm new to this subject. What does alb stand for (carbon dating or > something?)? And what does waleless corduroy look like? When I try to > envision it velveteen comes to mind. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris [mailto:keltia@serv.net] > Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 1999 12:47 PM > To: Historic Needlework; Historical Costume; SCA Garb > Subject: H-COST: Period waleless corduroy!! > > > > -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > > Oh, and the alb is dated 1320-1340. > > Merouda/Cynthia > > -- > Cynthia Long > Merouda the True of Beaumaris > Barony of Madrone > Kingdom of AnTir > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 14:36:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25262 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 14:36:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA03845; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 13:55:07 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA07474 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 13:54:40 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from discordia.io.com (discordia.io.com [199.170.88.100]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA07433 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 13:54:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from dragon (aus-as4-101.io.com [208.2.105.101]) by discordia.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA10667 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 14:54:31 -0600 Message-Id: <199912152054.OAA10667@discordia.io.com> From: "Amanda Reeves" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: re: tattoos & culture Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 14:58:25 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Amanda Reeves" I'm going to try to NOT sound too negative with this post, but simple observation leads me to this opinion..................... > But maybe that man with long hair or that woman with a tattoo don't *want* that > job. Then they won't go to the interview:-) > And I, for one, think this is changing. There are several ads on TV right > now showing young people with pink or yellow hair giving their parents *good* > advise on purchasing stock and that type of thing. That's because that's what the advertisers want you to think. They can give those kids any lines they want them to say. My experience with these young folks is completely different..............I only WISH they would talk to me about things like the stock market, world/current events, etc. I teach high school art and special ed (CWC). I'm sorry to have to say this, but the kids with the blue hair and piercings aren't the ones interested in the stock market, aren't the ones that are going to go to college, aren't the ones that are going to try to do anything with their lives other than flipping burgers because they just want to listen to their music and work the minimum that they can........I dialogue with them all the time. Now, don't get me wrong, I love these kids, they're my students and I care about them, but they don't keep up. They color their hair and pierce their bodies for "shock" value only and I don't think that Technical Writing Manager, or that man looking to hire a graphic artist to deal with the public cares anything about their ability to make people stare at them. > An obvious statement about > our changing times. Thank God our social mores are changing from the stuffed > shirt, judgemental views that judge a person's intelligence and worth by the > color of their hair or skin, be it natural or decorative to something more > forgiving, more in tune with our insides. We (my husband and I) are VERY open-minded folks and accepting of everyone, but by simple observation of the teens and 20-somethings, I have to say, I worry about the type of adults they're going to be. We went to our favorite "whole-food" cafe and got the worst service we had EVER had because all our waitress seemed concerned with was the new "tangles" in her hair that she was trying to get to dread. We sat back and watched her completely absorbed in herself and her hair and ignore most of her customers. My problem with this is that they are trying to be different, just like everyone else. Look at the way they put their clothes together, do you think they will do the research and put the effort into a well-made, well-fitting, authentic costume? My guess is, no.....they will throw some things together, probably tear it somewhere on purpose, make it ill fitting, do their hair strange and demand that you accept their interpretation of the costume. We just have to decide what we're going to accept. I have a button I wear that says, "Just because no one understands you, doesn't make you an artist." All in good spirits, Amanda _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 14:48:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25338 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 14:48:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA05190; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 14:07:07 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA13012 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 12:22:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from mx2.io.com (IDENT:root@mx2.io.com [199.170.88.18]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA12978 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 12:22:53 -0700 (MST) From: ches@io.com Received: from fnord.io.com (IDENT:ches@fnord.io.com [199.170.88.12]) by mx2.io.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA28842 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 13:22:51 -0600 Received: from localhost (ches@localhost) by fnord.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA13817 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 13:22:45 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fnord.io.com: ches owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 13:22:42 -0600 (EST) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: H-COST: Re: The King and I In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: ches@io.com here is the url for the movie, there is a quicktime interview with the costumer that is just facinating!! http://www.annaandtheking.com/images/landing/html_entry.gif Sincerely, F. Havas ches@io.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 14:48:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25343 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 14:48:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA05308; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 14:07:52 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA20327 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 12:49:11 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from Herb-Lore.com (mail.herb-lore.com [209.141.89.62]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA20306 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 12:49:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from heather [207.204.223.199] by Herb-Lore.com (SMTPD32-5.05) id AEB1620224; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 12:48:49 -0700 Message-ID: <000e01bf473d$cc41ba60$0101a8c0@heather> From: "Heather" To: References: <19991214.204442.-32587.0.seamstrix@juno.com> <3857CEDF.726FFA45@serv.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: carnation Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 12:48:50 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Heather" > > My understanding is that it is actually the color of raw flesh, which > > could be understood as a deep shade of pink, I suppose, depending on the > > flesh in question! > > At the risk of being crude, all flesh, when raw, the same color. Flesh not > being skin, but under the skin, is all the same color. Funny. I took the first comment to refer to the "freshness" of the flesh. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 14:50:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25355 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 14:50:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA05495; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 14:08:30 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA16672 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 12:35:22 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from fortune.excite.com (fortune-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.203]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA16635 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 12:35:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from hippie.excite.com ([199.172.148.180]) by kuku.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP id <19991215193202.JKAG19682.kuku.excite.com@hippie.excite.com> for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 11:32:02 -0800 Message-ID: <29873425.945286322093.JavaMail.imail@hippie.excite.com> Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 11:32:02 -0800 (PST) From: StitchWitch To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: Santa Cloths (was Re: H-COST: Re: Clothing Mistakes) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 144.163.130.106 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: StitchWitch > >>And wouldn't a presentation of historical Santas be stunning? > > > > If you're interested in this subjuect, check out the doll collecting > magazines. Santas are a popular specialty, and the variety is huge. There > are some stunning Santas being made, with wonderful costuming. > > Margo Oh, drat! Another hobby! Oh, wait, that still falls under the umbrella of costuming. I'm safe. *whew!* Now, are there any folks in the Seattle area interested in 'The Great Santa Project'? Kate ---- StitchWitch Unseen in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove. - P.G. Wodehouse, 1930 _______________________________________________________ Visit Excite Shopping at http://shopping.excite.com The fastest way to find your Holiday gift this season _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 14:50:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25359 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 14:50:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA05382; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 14:08:10 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA19070 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 12:44:02 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA19053 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 12:43:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA06898; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 11:44:27 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3857EFCF.BD90D364@serv.net> Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 11:45:20 -0800 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume , SCA Garb , Historic Needlework Subject: H-COST: Period waleless corduroy!! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris I am thumbing through: Opus Anglicanum: English Medieval Embroidery The Victoria & Albert Musuem 26 September to 24 November 1963 The Arts Council 1963 Printed in England at The Curwen Press, Plaistow, Long E.13 Exhibit selected by Donald King, deputy keeper of Textiles at the V&S (at the time) No ISBN Plate 14 shows appliqued Opus Anglicanum onto velvet. But the velvet is *exactly* like waleles corduroy. And it is on an Alb, clerical of course, but still a garment. Yes! Merouda/Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of AnTir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 14:54:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25372 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 14:54:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06233; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 14:13:49 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA12062 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 14:13:30 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from post1.inre.asu.edu (post1.inre.asu.edu [129.219.13.100]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA12046 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 14:13:26 -0700 (MST) From: KATHLEEN.MAHER@asu.edu Received: from general1.asu.edu (general1.asu.edu [129.219.10.145]) by asu.edu (PMDF V5.2-31 #31135) with ESMTP id <0FMS00HN0W9R4F@asu.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 14:13:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by general1.asu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA12038 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 14:13:02 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 14:13:01 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: H-COST: re: tattoos & culture In-reply-to: <199912152054.OAA10667@discordia.io.com> X-Sender: innana@general1.asu.edu To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: KATHLEEN.MAHER@asu.edu On Wed, 15 Dec 1999, Amanda Reeves wrote: > > We (my husband and I) are VERY open-minded folks and accepting of everyone, > but by simple observation of the teens and 20-somethings, I have to say, I > worry about the type of adults they're going to be. We went to our favorite > "whole-food" cafe and got the worst service we had EVER had because all our > waitress seemed concerned with was the new "tangles" in her hair that she > was trying to get to dread. We sat back and watched her completely absorbed > in herself and her hair and ignore most of her customers. What makes that different from the bad service that I got last night from a very well, but very conventionally dressed, waitress, who was more interested in gossiping with the other servers, checking her mainstream, but fashionable make-up, and trying not to mar her salon-done nails. And I went to high school with plenty of girls who looked like her who didn't do squat in the classroom. > > Look at the way they put their clothes together, do you think they will do > the research and put the effort into a well-made, well-fitting, authentic > costume? My guess is, no.....they will throw some things together, probably > tear it somewhere on purpose, make it ill fitting, do their hair strange > and demand that you accept their interpretation of the costume. And people like the one that I mentioned above, do you think that she wants to do research and wear *historical* clothing. No, she will make a outfit that makes her look 20th-century pretty, not be caught dead in proper head gear, and expect you to tell her how lovely she looks. My point (and I do have one) is that all groups of people contain people who are lazy and self-absorbed and that I have met (percentage wise) more "normal" people who are like that as I have people who look strange. -Katie (who has a tatoo and unhistorically short hair, none of which shows when I am wearing clothing that is as well made, well fitting and authentic as I can make it) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 15:03:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25396 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 15:03:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA07243; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 14:23:28 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA14589 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 14:23:15 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA14565 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 14:23:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (dialup-209.244.212.193.Washington2.Level3.net [209.244.212.193]) by hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA13052 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 13:23:10 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <009501bf4744$4ee45bc0$c1d4f4d1@pavilion> From: "Andrea Gideon" To: References: Subject: Re: H-COST: re: tattoos & culture Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:35:24 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Andrea Gideon" > > Look at the way they put their clothes together, do you think they will do > > the research and put the effort into a well-made, well-fitting, authentic > > costume? My guess is, no.....they will throw some things together, probably > > tear it somewhere on purpose, make it ill fitting, do their hair strange > > and demand that you accept their interpretation of the costume. > > And people like the one that I mentioned above, do you think that she > wants to do research and wear *historical* clothing. No, she will make a > outfit that makes her look 20th-century pretty, not be caught dead in proper > head gear, and expect you to tell her how lovely she looks. > How do you know either of these cases to be true? When I first got into the SCA, at age 15, I had dyed my hair purple and wore a nose ring (back when only Hindi women wore them). I did everything I could to be very authentic in my costuming. Andrea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 15:27:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25404 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 15:27:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA10515; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 14:47:07 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA23393 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 14:46:43 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from post1.inre.asu.edu (post1.inre.asu.edu [129.219.13.100]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA23369 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 14:46:39 -0700 (MST) From: KATHLEEN.MAHER@asu.edu Received: from general1.asu.edu (general1.asu.edu [129.219.10.145]) by asu.edu (PMDF V5.2-31 #31135) with ESMTP id <0FMS00JHKXSO6P@asu.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 14:46:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by general1.asu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA15159 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 14:46:00 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 14:45:59 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: H-COST: re: tattoos & culture In-reply-to: <009501bf4744$4ee45bc0$c1d4f4d1@pavilion> X-Sender: innana@general1.asu.edu To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: KATHLEEN.MAHER@asu.edu On Wed, 15 Dec 1999, Andrea Gideon wrote: > > > > And people like the one that I mentioned above, do you think that she > > wants to do research and wear *historical* clothing. No, she will make a > > outfit that makes her look 20th-century pretty, not be caught dead in > proper > > head gear, and expect you to tell her how lovely she looks. > > > How do you know either of these cases to be true? When I first got into the > SCA, at age 15, I had dyed my hair purple and wore a nose ring (back when > only Hindi women wore them). I did everything I could to be very authentic > in my costuming. Well, I only wrote the part that I left quoted in the message, and I can't answer for the other poster (stichwitch?), that said, I don't pretend that my example is true all of the time. I overstated my case deliberatly to point out that people who wear unconventional dress are no more likely to be indifferent to authenticity than people who don't. OTOH, my particular hobby, ACW reenactment contains a fair number of women who want to be Scarrlett O'Hara and dress accordingly, none of them that I have seen wear anything other than conventional clothing. -Katie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 15:39:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25410 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 15:39:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA12475; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 14:58:49 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA28157 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 14:58:39 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d01.mx.aol.com (imo-d01.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.33]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA28127 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 14:58:36 -0700 (MST) From: M311@aol.com Received: from M311@aol.com by imo-d01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.a3271727 (3966) for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:58:03 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.a3271727.258968eb@aol.com> Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:58:03 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: re: clothing mistakes To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 38 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: M311@aol.com In a message dated 12/15/99 2:48:46 AM Central Standard Time, kayta@slip.net writes: << One of the many things I don't understand about your religion is why tattoos are destroying the temple of one's body, and ear piercing, common among women of the period in which that book was written, is not. >> I know some of the divisions of the denomanation don't allow ear piercing or short hair for women. I married a Mennonite but was raised Conservative Baptist. Now some of the Mennonite dress more like Amish, who broke from the Mennonite Church. Now some, like our Church wear pants, can wear their hair short, pierce their ears. I have pierced ears but I chose to wear my hair long. Long hair is a covering and a glory to women, that is why the Church historically like long hair on women. A womens adornment is supposed to be on the inside and not the outside. The outside would be fancy hairstyles, makeup, jewelry, tatoos, very fancy clothes. Now I have been known to make my hair up and wear fancy clothes but the tatoos are permant and therefore destory the body. Since tatooing is "religious" to some cultures, by not tatooing it would not be conforming to "religions" that don't hold the same beliefs as ours. Kelly m311@aol.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 15:44:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25419 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 15:44:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA13430; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 15:03:52 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA00273 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 15:03:42 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from c008.sfo.cp.net (c008-h008.c008.sfo.cp.net [209.228.14.197]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA00240 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 15:03:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (cpmta 7237 invoked from network); 15 Dec 1999 14:03:37 -0800 Date: 15 Dec 1999 14:03:37 -0800 Message-ID: <19991215220337.7234.cpmta@c008.sfo.cp.net> X-Sent: 15 Dec 1999 22:03:37 GMT Received: from [207.102.246.97] by mail.canada.com with HTTP; 15 Dec 1999 14:03:36 PST Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 To: sca-garb@list.uvm.edu From: S Nielsen Cc: h-costume@indra.com X-Mailer: Web Mail 3.3 Subject: H-COST: Embellishment for long tunic Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: S Nielsen Greetings, A while ago, I posted about a tunic that I was making for my lord. The tunic is long (just past the knees), made from red/scarlet wool gabardine, with the sleeves and hem trimmed with 2 inch wide bands of royal blue wool crepe. There is also a white cotton undertunic that goes with it, which is machine embroidered in red and blue, showing at the neck, sleeves and hem. I had made this ensemble for my lord as an anniversary present, and I was hoping that it would change his mind as to the fact that T-tunics can't be fancy, or for court garb. Unfortunately I got my hopes up too high, it seems. My lord downright rejected the tunic. Its too plain, it looks like a dress, it doesn't matter if it is made from $20 a yard wool ("the average person can't tell"), and he won't wear it unless I put more embellishment on it (even then....?). So, I am posting to find out what my fellow costumers can suggest that I do with this. I have seen some trim at the fabric store (leaf/fleur-de-lis scroll work on black in silver thread), but I am reluctant to put that on for several reasons. First, it's $6/m. Second, I want this tunic to be as period as humanly possible (its one of the first pieces I have done that I would consider competing with). And third, it is very difficult to place straight trim on a curved seam (like the neck or hem). I will attempt embriodery if I can figure out what I should do. My experience with embriodery is limited to a few small favors I have made. (Iron-on transfer, covered up with back stitch). I have no idea what stitches are appropriate, (a few for motifs) or colors to use, etc. The intended period is very late 12th century. Help me out once again, all you marvelous people! Thanks, Meghan of Caerleon __________________________________________________________ Get your FREE personalized e-mail at http://www.canada.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 15:52:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25443 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 15:52:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA14505; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 15:12:09 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA03665 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 15:12:04 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from scl-ims.phoenix.com (scl-ims.phoenix.com [134.122.1.73]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA03649 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 15:12:02 -0700 (MST) Received: by scl-ims.phoenix.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 14:11:34 -0800 Message-ID: <1F176F2C2977D311B3300090270E63784D2B60@scl-exch.phoenix.com> From: Cynthia Barnes To: "H-Costume (E-mail)" Subject: H-COST: Daguerrotypes on-line Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 14:11:56 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cynthia Barnes Daguerrotypes (nice .gifs) from the Augustus Washington exhibit at the National Portrait Gallery (Smithsonian). http://www.npg.si.edu/exh/awash/ the 1844-54 portraits are lovely. --cin Cynthia Barnes 408.570.1023 Cynthia_Barnes@phoenix.com Phoenix Technologies 411 E. Plumeria Dr. San Jose CA 95134 "I think animal testing is a terrible idea; they get all nervous and give the wrong answers." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 15:53:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25447 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 15:53:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA14745; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 15:12:59 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA03971 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 15:12:53 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from redwood.co.sacramento.ca.us (redwood.co.sacramento.ca.us [192.147.67.161]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA03953 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 15:12:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from hhsmail.dhhs.co.sacramento.ca.us (10.5.11.246 [10.5.11.246]) by redwood.co.sacramento.ca.us with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id YQDF2VMB; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 14:10:37 -0800 Received: by hhsmail.dhhs.co.sacramento.ca.us with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 14:14:13 -0800 Message-ID: <1D0F5BB98E98D311B17E0008C75D0B3A03EC39@hhsmail.dhhs.co.sacramento.ca.us> From: "Bergdahl, Stephen" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Embellishment for long tunic Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 14:14:12 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Bergdahl, Stephen" I say keep the tunic, dump the lord! I love everything that my wife has ever made for me. And to turn your nose up at a handmade anniversary present is just.........too rotten for words. I may not be 100% crazy about everything she has ever made for me, but I would never tell her that, because it's not the items that maters it the love that went into making it. Yours Stephen "Oh well, the best layed plans of mice." "And men." "Men? What have men got to do with it!" -----Original Message----- From: S Nielsen [mailto:s_nielsen@canada.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 1999 2:04 PM To: sca-garb@list.uvm.edu Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Embellishment for long tunic -Poster: S Nielsen Greetings, A while ago, I posted about a tunic that I was making for my lord. The tunic is long (just past the knees), made from red/scarlet wool gabardine, with the sleeves and hem trimmed with 2 inch wide bands of royal blue wool crepe. There is also a white cotton undertunic that goes with it, which is machine embroidered in red and blue, showing at the neck, sleeves and hem. I had made this ensemble for my lord as an anniversary present, and I was hoping that it would change his mind as to the fact that T-tunics can't be fancy, or for court garb. Unfortunately I got my hopes up too high, it seems. My lord downright rejected the tunic. Its too plain, it looks like a dress, it doesn't matter if it is made from $20 a yard wool ("the average person can't tell"), and he won't wear it unless I put more embellishment on it (even then....?). So, I am posting to find out what my fellow costumers can suggest that I do with this. I have seen some trim at the fabric store (leaf/fleur-de-lis scroll work on black in silver thread), but I am reluctant to put that on for several reasons. First, it's $6/m. Second, I want this tunic to be as period as humanly possible (its one of the first pieces I have done that I would consider competing with). And third, it is very difficult to place straight trim on a curved seam (like the neck or hem). I will attempt embriodery if I can figure out what I should do. My experience with embriodery is limited to a few small favors I have made. (Iron-on transfer, covered up with back stitch). I have no idea what stitches are appropriate, (a few for motifs) or colors to use, etc. The intended period is very late 12th century. Help me out once again, all you marvelous people! Thanks, Meghan of Caerleon __________________________________________________________ Get your FREE personalized e-mail at http://www.canada.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 16:08:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25502 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:08:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA16818; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 15:28:14 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA11465 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 15:27:56 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA11393 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 15:27:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (1Cust229.tnt1.denton.tx.da.uu.net [63.27.85.229]) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06686 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 14:27:40 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <38581868.D22DF055@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:38:33 -0600 From: Magdalena X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Embellishment for long tunic References: <19991215220337.7234.cpmta@c008.sfo.cp.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Magdalena > > I will attempt embriodery if I can figure out what I should do. My experience with embriodery is limited to a few small favors I have made. (Iron-on transfer, covered up with back stitch). I have no idea what stitches are appropriate, (a few for motifs) or colors to use, etc. The intended period is very late 12th century. I assume that you love the guy and he has many other redeeming qualities, right? So, think stem-stitch. Somewhere recently I saw a beautiful tunic with a border embroidered with an outline motif done in stem-stitch. As soon as I remember, I'll post the url. Does he have a favorite color? If not, I'd use a deeper red than the tunic or gold. If you want period, silk thread doesn't cost that much. The one in my hand was listed at 3$ for 8 yds 12-ply silk. Does he have a device/favorite motif? Use it. Another way to snazz it up is beading. Just remember to knot well after each bead. -magdalena _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 16:13:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25512 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:13:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA17564; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 15:33:30 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA14030 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 15:33:16 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from c008.sfo.cp.net (c008-h010.c008.sfo.cp.net [209.228.14.209]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA14014 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 15:33:14 -0700 (MST) Received: (cpmta 23477 invoked from network); 15 Dec 1999 14:33:13 -0800 Date: 15 Dec 1999 14:33:13 -0800 Message-ID: <19991215223313.23476.cpmta@c008.sfo.cp.net> X-Sent: 15 Dec 1999 22:33:13 GMT Received: from [207.102.246.97] by mail.canada.com with HTTP; 15 Dec 1999 14:33:13 PST Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 To: SCA-GARB@LIST.UVM.EDU From: S Nielsen Cc: h-costume@indra.com X-Mailer: Web Mail 3.3 Subject: H-COST: Re: Re: Embellishment for long tunic Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: S Nielsen I may have made things sound more extreme than they are. Dumping my lord and keeping the tunic isn't really an option I am willing to consider. :-) He sees me sewing Italian ren dresses from brocade and velvet, and says that he doesn't have any "nice/fancy" garb. This tunic was an attempt to remedy that. I will agree that the tunic does look plain. But short of spending a hundred hours embroidering the tunic (which I am willing to consider) what are my options for keeping the tunic appropriate to a 12c Norman? On Wed, 15 December 1999, "Peters, Rise J." wrote: > > My suggestion would be that you give him a gift certificate to the fabric > store and tell him to have at it. Anyone who "flatly rejects" a well-made > garment had better be willing to learn to sew. > What I would suggest you =not= do is put more time or money into fancying up > something he really, really doesn't want. If he's willing to "flatly > reject" an anniversary gift, putting embroidery on it's not going to make > him change his mind. I think it will. Thanks, Meghan of Caerleon __________________________________________________________ Get your FREE personalized e-mail at http://www.canada.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 16:15:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25516 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:15:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA17912; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 15:35:00 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA14630 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 15:34:56 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d02.mx.aol.com (imo-d02.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.34]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA14620 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 15:34:54 -0700 (MST) From: Cheryldee@aol.com Received: from Cheryldee@aol.com by imo-d02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.31871b8e (3853) for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 17:34:18 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.31871b8e.2589716a@aol.com> Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 17:34:18 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: Underpinnings books To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 44 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cheryldee@aol.com In a message dated 12/15/99 12:06:28 PM Mountain Standard Time, aleed@dnaco.net writes: << Corsets & Crinolines by Nora Waugh is the best comprehensive book on the history of corsets, hoopskirts and fashionable support around. It contains patterns for various corsets & hoops,lots of contemporary literary quotes and references, and good info of all sorts. She covers 1600 to around 1920. Drea >> I agree with the above and... I would include as a second reference the Jean Hunnisett books. The corsets are better fitting for 20th century bodies which haven't been constricted from an early age. Cheryl Odom _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 16:26:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25529 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:26:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA19126; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 15:46:05 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA19012 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 15:45:58 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA18557 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 15:44:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (1Cust229.tnt1.denton.tx.da.uu.net [63.27.85.229]) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA11243 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 14:44:51 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <38581C7A.3BB91145@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:55:54 -0600 From: Magdalena X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Embellishment for long tunic References: <19991215220337.7234.cpmta@c008.sfo.cp.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Magdalena As I think along, another option for embellishment is to add a thin piece of cloth (I'd choose white, gold-yellow, or black) on one edge or both of your blue cloth. See my primitive ascii below. It would add definition. -Magdalena ____________________ ____________________ ____________________ ____________________ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 16:38:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25557 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:38:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA21904; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 15:56:59 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA23339 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 15:56:39 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.md.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.md.home.com [24.2.2.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA23314 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 15:56:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from shadow ([24.13.248.51]) by mail.rdc1.md.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <19991215225634.YASX26939.mail.rdc1.md.home.com@shadow> for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 14:56:34 -0800 Message-ID: <3858465F.5D4A@home.com> Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 17:54:39 -0800 From: Freya Organization: House Wolfholme X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Supplies help References: <19991214202429.21995.qmail@nwcst291.netaddress.usa.net> <02c101bf46a4$9114bee0$cb860318@avnl1.nj.home.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Freya Kyna Grannd wrote: > > -Poster: "Kyna Grannd" > > Warning.... blatant plug for myself to follow :) > > We are just finalizing out complete online catalog/shopping cart and out > text > price list now contains links to photos of most of our listed items. Once > complete, we > will also have all our laces and trims shown, books and additional corset > supplies that have yet to finish arriving. > > We'd be happy to help you and answer any questions. We have various sizes > and styles of > grommets in stock. We also are an authorized distributor for one of the > Norwegian pewter companies, with a full line of clasps offered in eye/hook, > hook/hook and eye/eye combinations. > > The main site is at http://GranndGarb.com > > The Clasps can be found at: http://granndgarb.com/page2.shtml > The Grommets, Eyelets and such can be found at: > http://granndgarb.com/page5.shtml > > Regards, > > ~Kyna > Grannd Garb > Historic Clothing Supplies and Accessories > info@granndgarb.com > http://granndgarb.com > > > > > -Poster: Orlaith > > > > I am currently working on my 12th night/yule festival/new year's eve > dress. > > It is a great red velveteen Italian Ren with snowflakes beaded all over > the > > sleeves. The problem is that I have decided to use metal eyes to thread > the > > lacing at the back. The question is where to find them. I know I have > seen > > women with this style of closure but I've never seen them in stores or on > the > > web. I am located in Arlington Virginia and but I would prefer to find > them > > on the web. > > > > Thanks for any help you can give me.... > > > > Orlaith of Storvik > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME Maybe you can answer a question for me. Last year I finally came up with a bodice pattern taylored to me. Because I like it alot, I want to make many more (at least 6 for me and some altered ones for friends. However, it laces on both sides with a total of 28 grommets per bodice. Do you know of a source for an affordable bench top grommet setter say in the range of 200$ or so? -- Freya Abair ach beag, is abair gu math e. Say but little, and say it well. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 16:38:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25561 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:38:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA22371; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 15:57:56 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA23836 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 15:57:52 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA23822 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 15:57:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA14362; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 14:58:11 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <38581D38.3B0F85E9@serv.net> Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 14:59:05 -0800 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA) -Garb" , Historical Costume Subject: H-COST: Re: Embellishment for long tunic References: <19991215220337.7234.cpmta@c008.sfo.cp.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > A while ago, I posted about a tunic that I was making for my lord. [snip] > > I will attempt embriodery if I can figure out what I should do. My experience with embriodery is limited to a few small favors I have made. (Iron-on transfer, covered up with back stitch). I have no idea what stitches are appropriate, (a few for motifs) or colors to use, etc. The intended period is very late 12th century. I love the embroidery on this page! http://www.regia.org/embroid.htm show him the pictures and see what he thinks. I'd get his opinion about the design before spending hours on it. M/C -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of AnTir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 16:44:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25568 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:44:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA24407; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:03:51 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA26178 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:03:43 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA26113 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:03:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (1Cust229.tnt1.denton.tx.da.uu.net [63.27.85.229]) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA18585 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 15:03:33 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <385820CE.FDF98D05@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 17:14:23 -0600 From: Magdalena X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Embellishment for long tunic References: <19991215220337.7234.cpmta@c008.sfo.cp.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Magdalena > Think accessories too. Does he have a cool belt with stuff to hang from it? A hood. (or am I thinking too late period?) A big guy type necklace. A pouch to match the rest of the outfit. Also, are we talking 1275 or 1375? -Magdalena _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 16:45:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25572 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:45:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA24468; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:04:07 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA26347 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:04:04 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ntserver1.mainsaver.com ([206.17.202.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA26332 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:04:02 -0700 (MST) Received: by HP-LH3 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 15:04:03 -0800 Message-ID: <5B38B8D7EED8D211997F00A0C9E57FB91DB6E0@HP-LH3> From: MAGGIE SECARA To: "Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA) -Garb" , "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Re: Embellishment for long tunic Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 15:04:03 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MAGGIE SECARA > ---------- > From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris[SMTP:keltia@serv.net] > Reply To: h-costume@indra.com > Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 1999 2:59 PM > To: Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA) -Garb; Historical Costume > Subject: H-COST: Re: Embellishment for long tunic > > > -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > > I love the embroidery on this page! http://www.regia.org/embroid.htm > show him the pictures and see what he thinks. I'd get his opinion about > the design before spending hours on it. > Absolutely. The surprise thing doesn't seem to have gone very well. I'm also inclined to believe that if he really doesn't want to wear it, he isn't going to wear it. Better find out, or figure out a way to turn it into another garment he will wear. It sounds gorgeous to me ! MaggiRos _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 17:06:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA25648 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 17:06:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA27248; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:25:23 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA05038 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:25:15 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA05003 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:25:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991215232506.VGNF17996.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 15:25:06 -0800 Message-ID: <3858235F.DF6AD50F@home.com> Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 17:25:19 -0600 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Embellishment for long tunic References: <19991215220337.7234.cpmta@c008.sfo.cp.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kat & Kent Having made a number of court Saxon tunics for my lord husband I have the following to say: first, it is easier to put a thin piece of trim around a round neckline... particularly if one leaves about 1/4-1/2" of fabric between the edge & the edge of the trim. Second, use several different types of trim around the chest.... eg plain trim, fancy trim, plain trim if all are fairly wide or even multiple lines of trim if trim is narrow. His fanciest has a band of 10" of trim across the chest. Third, you might lay a coordinating trim along the band of fabric on the wrists and hem. The first tunic I made for my husband was of a brown velvet with cross-stitch trim. I used cross-stitch trim fabric (already bound on the edges) but that was before I knew about waste canvas. The trim on the sleeves was red and gold in a narrow, simple design. The hem had a 2" wide trim in yellow and blue as I recall (can't find it right now). Another trick I use for rounded necklines is to bead them. I run a simple pattern of beads (such as \./*\./*\./ with the * & . representing a bead & the lines representing embroidery thread). It really doesn't take that long if you use a short, thin needle and I often put them in whilst simultaneously hemming the neckline. Hope he finds some of these alternatives attractive. If you'd like, I can try to get a pic of some of Kent's tunics to you. Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 17:08:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA25652 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 17:08:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA27483; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:27:20 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA05780 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:27:15 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.nj.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.nj.home.com [24.3.128.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA05760 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:27:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from cc1010062a ([24.3.134.203]) by mail.rdc1.nj.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <19991215232706.VRUG17353.mail.rdc1.nj.home.com@cc1010062a> for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 15:27:06 -0800 Message-ID: <001501bf4753$e6c08ea0$cb860318@avnl1.nj.home.com> From: "Kyna Grannd" To: References: <19991214202429.21995.qmail@nwcst291.netaddress.usa.net> <02c101bf46a4$9114bee0$cb860318@avnl1.nj.home.com> <3858465F.5D4A@home.com> Subject: H-COST: Grommet Setters was Re: Supplies Help Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 18:27:05 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Kyna Grannd" Do you > know of a source for an affordable bench top grommet setter say in the > range of 200$ or so? > > -- > Freya If you want to email me I can give you some numbers and examples. I thought I'd take the time to give an opinion about grommet and eyelet setters to the entire list. If anyone has better experiences with these bench top models, I'd love to hear the manufacturer's name :) I have a bench top setter, as well as the simple die set and hammer, the die set and hammer is actually easier and requires much less strength. (Not to mention the fact that they are much less expensive) I've tried a bench top that has a foot lever also. That was nice for large multiples and since my legs are much stronger than my arms, plus it is easier to get your body weight behind it, it was less effort than the one you do with your arms, but very expensive if you aren't going to be using it every day in a business. I generally use the die set and hammer and the bench setter for multiple hundreds is attached to a work table collecting dust for the most part. ~Kyna Grannd Garb http://granndgarb.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 17:17:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA25669 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 17:17:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA28494; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:36:44 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA09343 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:36:39 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta1-svc.virgin.net (mta1-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.142]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA09324 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:36:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from LOCALNAME ([194.168.57.152]) by mta1-svc.virgin.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP id <19991215233729.FHFG3233.mta1-svc.virgin.net@LOCALNAME> for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 23:37:29 +0000 Message-ID: <3858997F.17C5@virgin.net> Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 23:49:19 -0800 From: Dawn Organization: ages of elegance (http://www.agesofelegance.co.uk) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-VN712-000 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Underpinnings books References: <0.31871b8e.2589716a@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dawn > > >> > > I agree with the above and... > I would include as a second reference the Jean Hunnisett books. The corsets > are better fitting for 20th century bodies which haven't been constricted > from an early age. Do please bear in mind though that theses patterns have been adapted for stage wear and are not always strictly accurate for re-enactment wear Dawn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 17:17:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA25673 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 17:17:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA28490; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:36:43 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA09300 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:36:34 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta2-svc.virgin.net (mta2-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.143]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA09280 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:36:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from LOCALNAME ([194.168.57.152]) by mta2-svc.virgin.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP id <19991215233527.CTBO22863.mta2-svc.virgin.net@LOCALNAME> for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 23:35:27 +0000 Message-ID: <3858964C.3DCB@virgin.net> Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 23:35:40 -0800 From: Dawn Organization: ages of elegance (http://www.agesofelegance.co.uk) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-VN712-000 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Underpinnings books References: <1999121510233746334@ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dawn Another useful book is the history of underclothes by cunnington. I don't think it's in print anymore but you may be able to pick it up somewhere. Dawn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 17:21:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA25680 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 17:21:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA29182; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:41:40 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA11257 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:41:34 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from Herb-Lore.com (mail.herb-lore.com [209.141.89.62]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA11246 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:41:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from heather [207.204.223.199] by Herb-Lore.com (SMTPD32-5.05) id A52AA430124; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:41:14 -0700 Message-ID: <004b01bf475e$44f70300$0101a8c0@heather> From: "Heather" To: References: <19991215220337.7234.cpmta@c008.sfo.cp.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: Embellishment for long tunic Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:41:16 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Heather" > My lord downright rejected the tunic. Its too plain, it looks like a dress, it doesn't matter if it is made from $20 a yard wool ("the average person can't tell"), and he won't wear it unless I put more embellishment on it (even then....?). Meghan, has he tried this on or did he reject it before putting it on? If he hasn't tired it on with all of the accessories he'll wear with it, get him too. Then, drag him outside and take pictures (perhaps somewhere where the neighbors might see and complement him?). After the fuss, if he still doesn't like it, make copies of the pic, have him tell you why he doesn't like it and what might fix it, and sketch on the copies. If you can get him interested enough, have him do the sketching. It may save a lot of time trying to decide on a "fix" if all he wants is something appliquéd on the front. If he still doesn't like it, at least you have some pics of him in it. Good luck. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 17:22:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA25687 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 17:22:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA29378; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:42:33 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA11584 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:42:28 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo21.mx.aol.com (imo21.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.65]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA11562 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:42:25 -0700 (MST) From: Appin1@aol.com Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.9c31ac30 (4332) for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 18:41:42 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.9c31ac30.25898136@aol.com> Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 18:41:42 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: Tartan (was Pink) To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 39 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Appin1@aol.com There are certainly irregular tartan patterns out there. Also, if your husband saw a color print of the tartan, rather than some one wearing the actual garment, the color could have been "off". There are sett registries where you can check the pattern of the tartan just in case. Kathleen Norvell "How many costumes do you think I can pack?" --"Start the Revolution Without Me" _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 17:35:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA25740 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 17:35:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA01338; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:54:59 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA16103 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:54:48 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from spamgaac.compuserve.com (as-img-3.compuserve.com [149.174.217.146]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA16090 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:54:45 -0700 (MST) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamgaac.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.7) id SAA24481 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 18:54:14 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 18:53:48 -0500 From: Margaret Bolger Subject: Santa Cloths (was Re: H-COST: Re: Clothing Mistakes) To: "INTERNET:h-costume@indra.com" Message-ID: <199912151854_MC2-9148-1D2@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id QAA16096 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margaret Bolger Kate, >>I've seen some lovely holiday cards with Santa, Father Christmas, etc. on them in various garb, the most stunning of which is a heavy fur coat (looks like bear) over a midnight blue robe embroidered with silver snowflakes. I think this was a Victorian creation, but was there ever a 'Santa' historically with such an outfit? And wouldn't a presentation of historical Santas be stunning? << Thought you might to go to this site......loads of images of Victorian Santa's for you! http://webclipart.about.com/internet/webclipart/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site =http://www.taurussoftware.hostings.com/santa Margaret antique costume & textiles http://www.artizania.co.uk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 18:05:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA25785 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 18:05:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA04341; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 17:24:27 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA26814 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 17:23:43 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.compassnet.com.au ([203.26.180.18]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA26779 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 17:23:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from glendar ([203.26.180.188]) by mail.compassnet.com.au (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA17387 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 11:28:42 +1100 Message-ID: <01c001bf475b$c93edf00$bcb41acb@glendar> From: "Glenda Robinson" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Embellishment for long tunic Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 11:23:16 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Glenda Robinson" Meghan, I'm wondering if a fancy tablet-woven braid may be an option. It's quicker than an embroidered band, and they can be made quick(ish)ly, It's fairly easy to learn if you don't already know it, and some really pretty patterns can be designed for these. As late 12th century isn't my period at the moment, I can't remember if the tablet-woven edging is OK, but I have seen it on 11th century reenactors, and I'm sure I've seen it on 12th and 13th century reenactors too. There are surely others on the list who could tell us of it's authenticity for the period. Glenda. -----Original Message----- From: S Nielsen > >My lord downright rejected the tunic. Its too plain, it looks like a dress, it doesn't matter if it is made from $20 a yard wool ("the average person can't tell"), and he won't wear it unless I put more embellishment on it (even then....?). > > >I will attempt embriodery if I can figure out what I should do. My experience with embriodery is limited to a few small favors I have made. (Iron-on transfer, covered up with back stitch). I have no idea what stitches are appropriate, (a few for motifs) or colors to use, etc. The intended period is very late 12th century. > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 18:09:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA25795 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 18:09:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA04776; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 17:28:30 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA28370 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 17:28:23 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA28339 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 17:28:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from mercury.physics.adelaide.edu.au (mercury [129.127.36.44]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id KAA30138 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 10:58:11 +1030 (CST) Received: from localhost by mercury.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.65v4.0/1.1.19.2/16Nov99-0332PM) id AA29555; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 10:58:11 +1030 Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 10:58:09 +1030 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: RE: Queen Elizabeth's Effigy Corset? In-Reply-To: <4.1.19991214222443.03aeaab0@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Tue, 14 Dec 1999, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > > > >In Piecework magazine last month they talk about the effigy and they > >mention the there are bloomers on it. Now, I was scratching my head over > >that and was about to ask the list about it. They must have been put on at > >a later time as well? > > "Bloomers" show up in Mary, Queen of Scots's inventories. I would not be > surprised to find them in Elizabeth's. Anybody out there have access to > any of her inventories? > I just had a thought - maybe 16th century drawers were used for riding? I haven't had much experience with horseriding myself, but I imagine it's not something you'd want to do exposed as it were. Then perhaps later on someone found these and thought 'ooer, can't have Good Queen Bess without her undies on...' As I said...just a thought... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 19:22:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA25930 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 19:22:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA12128; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 18:41:12 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA21541 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 18:40:51 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo25.mx.aol.com (imo25.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.69]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA21530 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 18:40:49 -0700 (MST) From: SNSpies@aol.com Received: from SNSpies@aol.com by imo25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.c4c5a16c (4206) for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 20:40:13 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.c4c5a16c.25899cfd@aol.com> Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 20:40:13 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: Embellishment for long tunic To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 38 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: SNSpies@aol.com << My lord downright rejected the tunic. >> What amazingly bad manners. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 19:26:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA25946 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 19:26:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA12526; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 18:45:33 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA22921 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 18:45:30 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA22910 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 18:45:27 -0700 (MST) From: SNSpies@aol.com Received: from SNSpies@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.2666136f (4206) for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 20:44:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.2666136f.25899e11@aol.com> Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 20:44:49 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: Embellishment for long tunic To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 38 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: SNSpies@aol.com << As late 12th century isn't my period at the moment, I can't remember if the tablet-woven edging is OK, but I have seen it on 11th century reenactors, and I'm sure I've seen it on 12th and 13th century reenactors too. There are surely others on the list who could tell us of it's authenticity for the period. >> Brocaded tabletwoven bands are "period" through the 16th century. Nancy _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 19:47:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA25964 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 19:47:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA14797; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 19:06:25 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA29197 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 19:06:14 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d09.mx.aol.com (imo-d09.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.41]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA29187 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 19:06:13 -0700 (MST) From: DDunker@aol.com Received: from DDunker@aol.com by imo-d09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.c857bfb5 (3844) for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 21:05:38 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.c857bfb5.2589a2f2@aol.com> Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 21:05:38 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: re: clothing mistakes To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 39 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: DDunker@aol.com In a message dated 12/15/99 9:45:32 AM Pacific Standard Time, AlbertCat@aol.com writes: << So... celebrate our diversity but pretend we're all the same? You don't have to participate or read the tread if you don't like it but I have found everyone's comments interesting....even the flames. >> snip You evidently think you read between imaginary lines. Please feel free then to express yourself, but I take great offense at you placing blame where it does not belong "pretend we're all the same". I have never made a statement such as that. You owe me an apology. I asked only that the sniping stop, but apparently you continue to thrive on it. You are right about one thing, if I skip the thread, I needn't be exposed to your narrowminded judgemental attitude. Darla _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 19:58:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA25982 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 19:58:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA16147; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 19:17:48 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA02815 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 19:17:43 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from pop03.ex-pressnet.com ([24.239.0.10]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA02794 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 19:17:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from alt1 ([24.239.14.77]) by pop03.ex-pressnet.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.117.11); Wed, 15 Dec 1999 21:10:47 -0500 From: "Allison Thurman" To: Subject: H-COST: re: tattoos & culture Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 21:15:41 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Allison Thurman" interesting thread this.... it has been suggested by some anthropologists that primitive peoples actually started the practice of tattooing and other body modifications partly to differentiate themselves from animals - after all, animals dont dye/braid/shave their hair, wear jewelry, or mark their bodies. it could be that as we have moved away from living close to nature making the difference between animals and humans doesnt need to be as explicit, and the reason the west has traditionally viewed body modifications as "bad" or "strange" is because it is associated with these less "advanced" people. body modifications have also marked rites of passage. perhaps the only analagous thing in western society might be taking a young girl to get her ears pierced, but given that some people take babies for piercing and some people dont believe in it at all id hardly call this an established ritual. though some folks have latched on to piercing/tattooing/etc as a "fashion" thing i kind of feel sorry for them because they may be disappointed later on because they didnt realize how permanent it is. i think the majority of body mods. in modern western society are done out of personal taste. i also think young people (i am speaking of 18+ - most reputable tattoo/piercing parlors wont work on anyone underage) do find an element of rebellion appealing - which i guess makes them normal because all generations seem to like to bewilder the one(s) that came before it ;) some good references on this subject are "re/search: modern primitives" and ted polhemus' "the customized body", which also covers things like plastic surgery and extreme hair styles. the former is a historical survey of body modifications across the world and discussions with modern artists/practitioners. the latter is a series of photo essays of folks with modifications and offers insight into the many reasons people get tattoos/piercing/dreadlocks/etc. now. both have pictures that are not for the squeamish, so youve been warned.;) also, if youre curious about the mechanics, different types of piercing, hygiene, etc check out http://www.access.digex.net/~perforat/. this is the url of Perforations, a highly regarded shop in washington dc. allison _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 20:01:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA25996 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 20:01:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA16662; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 19:20:36 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA03663 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 19:20:32 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.localweb.com (mail.localweb.com [198.85.234.3]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA03651 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 19:20:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from yahoo.com (www5.localweb.com [204.85.8.128]) by mail.localweb.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA29867 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 21:19:57 -0500 Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 21:19:57 -0500 Message-Id: <199912160219.VAA29867@mail.localweb.com> From: Morgaine of Glastonbury To: Historic Costume list Subject: H-COST: You have been sent a Medieval-gram! Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Morgaine of Glastonbury Greetings Historic Costume list! Apparently, Morgaine of Glastonbury (lady_gawain@yahoo.com) sent you a Medieval-gram. In order to pick-up your Medieval-gram, point your web browser to the website: http://www.PillagedVillage.com/cgi-bin/gram_get.cgi?id=6617176195 Your Medieval-gram will be available for 30 days starting from the date of this E-mail notification - pick up window is at our website. Best regards Webmaster The Pillaged Village http://www.PillagedVillage.com/ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 20:04:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA26009 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 20:04:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA16934; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 19:23:28 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA04523 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 19:23:24 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from pop03.ex-pressnet.com ([24.239.0.10]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04503 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 19:23:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from alt1 ([24.239.14.77]) by pop03.ex-pressnet.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.117.11); Wed, 15 Dec 1999 21:16:28 -0500 From: "Allison Thurman" To: Subject: H-COST: changing attitudes etc. Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 21:21:23 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Allison Thurman" - -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > Also consider: Is a man with shoulder length hair more likely to get that > Wall Street job than a clean cut guy.....even today? How about that Graphic > Artist opening at the ad agency? But maybe that man with long hair or that woman with a tattoo don't *want* that job. And I, for one, think this is changing. There are several ads on TV right now showing young people with pink or yellow hair giving their parents *good* advise on purchasing stock and that type of thing. An obvious statement about our changing times. Thank God our social mores are changing from the stuffed shirt, judgemental views that judge a person's intelligence and worth by the color of their hair or skin, be it natural or decorative to something more forgiving, more in tune with our insides. >>i work as a contractor in washington dc, never a funky fashion capital. i contract to the federal government, no less and i am definitely noticing a considerable loosening up in standards for work attire. i have purple streaks in my hair and no one has commented negatively about this - indeed, ive recieved a few compliments. there is even a person on my floor with their cheek pierced (looks like a marilyn-monroe "beauty spot") and evidently there are no problems because ive not seen her take it out yet. >>granted, i do not work in a high visibility position (web developer/programmer) but i think you can get away with more extreme styles than say, 5 years ago, in the work place. unless youre going into law or corporate banking or some equally conservative profession. >>just my $.02 >>allison Fwiw and my $.02, Cynthia _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 20:30:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA26038 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 20:30:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA21582; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 19:49:49 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA12504 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 19:49:22 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from eou.edu (emily.eou.edu [140.211.65.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA12490 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 19:49:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from dew-it (elsa27.eou.edu [140.211.52.107]) by eou.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA12624 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 18:51:02 -0800 (PST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 18:47:03 -0800 Message-ID: <01BF472C.C70CC820.dewj@eou.edu> From: Jim Dew To: "'h-costume-digest@indra.com'" Subject: H-COST: RE: Embellishment for Long Tunic Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 18:47:02 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Jim Dew Tablet woven trim would be perfect. I have some fairly nice pieces I would be willing to part with for a nominal sum, although I don't think I have the right colors. Maybe we should talk about some custom trim. I could whip something up for him very inexpensively. How about something brocade-like? My period is 12th century, too, but I am not playing at this time, being stuck in the mountains. I would love to do some commission work, just for the practice. I would rather trade than be paid. E-mail me and we will talk. Or I would be glad to help you if you want to make it yourself. I have lots of experience using tabletwoven pieces as trim, too. Rowan Dewm@eou.edu Someone said: I'm wondering if a fancy tablet-woven braid may be an option. As late 12th century isn't my period at the moment, I can't remember if the tablet-woven edging is OK, but I have seen it on 11th century reenactors, and I'm sure I've seen it on 12th and 13th century reenactors too. There are surely others on the list who could tell us of it's authenticity for the period. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 21:09:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA26088 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 21:09:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA27459; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 20:28:29 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA23621 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 20:27:51 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from gti.net (apollo.gti.net [199.171.27.7]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA23605 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 20:27:49 -0700 (MST) From: martyr@gti.net Received: from gti.net (morr0615.gti.net [208.216.122.15]) by gti.net (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA26278 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 22:27:50 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <38585C8F.1E6B3D0A@gti.net> Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 22:29:21 -0500 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: re: tattoos & culture References: <0.c316fb42.25892a55@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: martyr@gti.net Well, I can't relate to the '70s experience because I was a little kid but it does seem that long hair on men did become more acceptable in that decade than in the previous decades-the entire first part of this century featured close-cut hair for men, especially the 1950s. Even men with short hair styles seemed to have long sideburns or just that strange seventies' hair style, like Kotters' modified white 'fro on "Welcome Back Kotter." I really think geography has alot to do w/what one can get away w/ in terms of long hair, streaks, piercings, etc. Anyway most men w/long hair don't walk into a job interview w/their hair down. ~Lisa > Wall Street job than a clean cut guy.....even today? How about that Graphic > Artist opening at the ad agency?> > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 21:26:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA26125 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 21:26:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA29355; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 20:46:14 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA28973 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 20:46:01 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.61]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA28962 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 20:45:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from 207-172-86-50.s50.tnt6.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com ([207.172.86.50] helo=e4c2n6) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #3) id 11yRr5-0000K9-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 22:45:27 -0500 Message-ID: <016801bf4777$e6462420$f94faccf@e4c2n6> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <0.c316fb42.25892a55@aol.com> <38585C8F.1E6B3D0A@gti.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: re: tattoos & culture Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 22:44:44 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" My husband and son are growing their hair out right now. My husband wants to put his in a braid down his back. He is a professional , dress clothes and tie. Both of them have thick curly hair and are tired of trying to find a hairstyle to get rid of the poof. <<>> Long hair on men seems acceptable here in Richmond. Later... Penny http://www.costumegallery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 21:26:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA26121 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 21:26:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA29461; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 20:46:35 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA29132 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 20:46:32 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.mi.verio.com (mail.mi.verio.com [209.69.6.110]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA29119 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 20:46:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from rust.net (69-106.pop.sh.mi.verio.com [209.69.69.106]) by mail.mi.verio.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA11351 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 22:44:13 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <38586114.C3CBB741@rust.net> Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 22:48:36 -0500 From: Bill and/or Glenna Jo Christen Organization: The Curiosity Shop X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-costume Subject: H-COST: Re: Anna & The King Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Bill and/or Glenna Jo Christen -Poster: Orlaith > I saw a preview of Anna and the King last night. A real GO SEE....the thing that stood > out as wrong was she had skirts and blouses on for most of the movie. You have a good eye. Yes, not only were the mismatched skirts and bodices wrong, the cuts were wrong as well. Dropped armscyes are a key feature of mid 19th c. women's garments and her bodices had modern set-n sleeves. Her hair was usually dressed quite well if a bit youthful for a widow with a son his age. I just wish she would have tied her bonnet and hat on properly just once... At the very least though she was wearing a corset, the bodices fit her torso correctly and she wasn't wearing enormous hoops. All that said, I LOVED the movie! I'm so glad I don't know anything about Siamese clothing of any time period so I could just revel in the color and the exotic qualities of all of it. I thought the sets, scenery, acting, etc. were all wonderful. I wasn't watching it for history, but for a good story and I got that. I do want to read a more accurate account of Anna's time in Siam though, just so I know for my personal information. Glenna Jo Christen (Lurker) gwjchris@rust.net Visit our web site, "The Curiosity Shop" http://www.rust.net/~gwjchris/ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 21:27:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA26129 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 21:27:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA29516; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 20:46:49 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA29221 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 20:46:46 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA29208 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 20:46:44 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 20:46:44 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 28138 invoked from network); 16 Dec 1999 03:46:35 -0000 Received: from 220.64.3-9.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (HELO JOANJURA) (207.231.64.220) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 16 Dec 1999 03:46:35 -0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19991215194644.3a9728c2@mail2.quiknet.com> X-Sender: joanj@mail2.quiknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: Re: H-COST: Underpinnings books Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Joan M Jurancich At 11:35 PM 12/15/99 -0800, Dawn wrote: > >-Poster: Dawn > >Another useful book is the history of underclothes by cunnington. I >don't think it's in print anymore but you may be able to pick it up >somewhere. > >Dawn In 1992, Dover re-published the Cunningtons' book in a very affordable edition. Here's the info: "The History of Underclothes" by C. Willett and Phillis Cunnington. ISBN 0-486-27124-2 (paper) You can obtain a free catalog from Dover by mail (only, no phone ordering, no email, no web page): Dover Publications, Inc., Dept. 23, 31 East 2nd Street, Mineola, NY 11501. Specify your area of interest (e.g., costume). Joan Jurancich Sacramento, CA joanj@quiknet.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 21:37:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA26142 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 21:37:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA00416; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 20:56:45 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA02180 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 20:55:58 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ivic.ivic.net (ivic.ivic.net [207.51.248.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA02157 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 20:55:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from default (ivic-dyn69.ivic.net [207.51.248.69]) by ivic.ivic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04581 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 19:52:16 -0800 Message-Id: <199912160352.TAA04581@ivic.ivic.net> From: "Lorene Dinsmore" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Embellishment for long tunic Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 19:56:36 -0800 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Lorene Dinsmore" Stephen, do you have a brother who is single? You are most assuredly a rare find. Islyle > I say keep the tunic, dump the lord! I love everything that my wife has > ever made for me. And to turn your nose up at a handmade anniversary > present is just.........too rotten for words. I may not be 100% crazy about > everything she has ever made for me, but I would never tell her that, > because it's not the items that maters it the love that went into making it. > > Yours Stephen > > "Oh well, the best layed plans of mice." > "And men." > "Men? What have men got to do with it!" > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: S Nielsen [mailto:s_nielsen@canada.com] > Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 1999 2:04 PM > To: sca-garb@list.uvm.edu > Cc: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: H-COST: Embellishment for long tunic > > > > -Poster: S Nielsen > > Greetings, > > A while ago, I posted about a tunic that I was making for my lord. The tunic > is long (just past the knees), made from red/scarlet wool gabardine, with > the sleeves and hem trimmed with 2 inch wide bands of royal blue wool crepe. > There is also a white cotton undertunic that goes with it, which is machine > embroidered in red and blue, showing at the neck, sleeves and hem. > > I had made this ensemble for my lord as an anniversary present, and I was > hoping that it would change his mind as to the fact that T-tunics can't be > fancy, or for court garb. Unfortunately I got my hopes up too high, it > seems. > > My lord downright rejected the tunic. Its too plain, it looks like a dress, > it doesn't matter if it is made from $20 a yard wool ("the average person > can't tell"), and he won't wear it unless I put more embellishment on it > (even then....?). > > So, I am posting to find out what my fellow costumers can suggest that I do > with this. I have seen some trim at the fabric store (leaf/fleur-de-lis > scroll work on black in silver thread), but I am reluctant to put that on > for several reasons. First, it's $6/m. Second, I want this tunic to be as > period as humanly possible (its one of the first pieces I have done that I > would consider competing with). And third, it is very difficult to place > straight trim on a curved seam (like the neck or hem). > > I will attempt embriodery if I can figure out what I should do. My > experience with embriodery is limited to a few small favors I have made. > (Iron-on transfer, covered up with back stitch). I have no idea what > stitches are appropriate, (a few for motifs) or colors to use, etc. The > intended period is very late 12th century. > > Help me out once again, all you marvelous people! > > Thanks, > > Meghan of Caerleon > > > __________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE personalized e-mail at http://www.canada.com > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 21:57:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA26159 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 21:57:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA02987; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 21:17:06 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA08283 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 21:16:56 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from pop1.cyberhighway.net (pop1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.35]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA08270 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 21:16:53 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199912160416.VAA08270@net.indra.com> Received: (qmail 8324 invoked from network); 15 Dec 1999 21:16:52 -0700 Received: from ts16-04.boi.cyberhighway.net (HELO kathy) (209.161.9.60) by pop1.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 15 Dec 1999 21:16:52 -0700 From: "K & J Hopkins" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Fwd: OT: QEI Poll Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 21:27:39 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "K & J Hopkins" Bette Davis was not included. That's a shame. Kathlene > > >Not a particularly interesting bit of knowledge, but one pertinant to > >our little cause. The Internet Movie Database is currently taking a > >poll on who has played the best Queen Elizabeth. Cate Blanchett is in > >the lead with Judi Dench in a relatively close second. For all of you > >interested in placing your votes the URL is: > > > >http:\\www.imdb.com > > LynnD _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 22:07:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA26186 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 22:07:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA03950; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 21:27:05 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA11278 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 21:27:00 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com (imo16.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA11264 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 21:26:58 -0700 (MST) From: Fopdejour1@aol.com Received: from Fopdejour1@aol.com by imo16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.17c8d5ca (4323) for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 23:26:24 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.17c8d5ca.2589c3f0@aol.com> Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 23:26:24 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: Fwd: OT: QEI Poll To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 45 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Fopdejour1@aol.com In a message dated 12/16/99 4:18:51 AM !!!First Boot!!!, khopkins@cyberhighway.net writes: << Bette Davis was not included. That's a shame. Kathlene >> She was when I went there and looked...along with Glenda Jackson and I forget the other _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 22:31:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA26208 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 22:31:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA06014; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 21:50:44 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA17908 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 21:50:38 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.7]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA17898 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 21:50:37 -0700 (MST) From: JPMcTeer@aol.com Received: from JPMcTeer@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.8b06cc98 (4466) for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 23:50:02 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.8b06cc98.2589c979@aol.com> Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 23:50:01 EST Subject: H-COST: RE: Underpinnings books To: h-costume-digest@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 38 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: JPMcTeer@aol.com A recent post asked >>- -Poster: scootnik@ix.netcom.com Hi All, I'm new here and new to Costuming as well. Could some one please suggest a book (or two...) that gives the proper undergarments to wear for period costumes. I'd like a book specifically on Corsetry as well. The time span needs to be fairly wide for both subjects, I'd like a good overview rather that a book on just one era. Thanks for your help, please excuse if this subject has been covered here before, Lynne>> An excellent reference for what are usually called corsets from mid-19th Century through 1934 is a book by someone on this list Corsets: A Visual History Compiled by R. L. Shep ISBN 0-914046-20-9 my early copy was $26.95; I am not sure of the present price. If you are interested in a certain period or style later on, come back on the list. There are other books better for particular periods. Happy hunting. Joan McTeer in Minneapolis delurking for her favorite topic _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 23:04:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA26251 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 23:04:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA09061; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 22:23:46 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA27368 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 22:23:24 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lh2.rdc1.sdca.home.com (ioracle@ha2.rdc1.sdca.home.com [24.0.3.67]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA27355 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 22:23:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from home.com ([24.0.170.52]) by lh2.rdc1.sdca.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991216052319.DGWG1336.lh2.rdc1.sdca.home.com@home.com> for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 21:23:19 -0800 Message-ID: <38587557.24745DAD@home.com> Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 21:15:03 -0800 From: Russell Hedges Organization: @Home Network X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: Santa Cloths (was Re: H-COST: Re: Clothing Mistakes) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Russell Hedges Megan McConnell wrote: > > -Poster: "Megan McConnell" > > >And wouldn't a presentation of historical Santas be stunning? > > Kate > > Stop it at once! There is only 1.5 weeks til christmas - and evil minds > (OK: costuming minds - same thing really ) work overtime. > Don't you mean 53.5 weeks? Lots of time. Russell Hedges _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Dec 15 23:43:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA26363 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 23:43:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA11779; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 23:02:40 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA08201 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 23:02:21 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from superman.imag.net (superman.imag.net [207.200.148.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA08187 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 23:02:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from van1282 (van-port90.imag.net [204.244.111.90]) by superman.imag.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA24051 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 22:02:33 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <00ab01bf478b$4bccc340$03000004@van1282> From: "The Rogue" To: Subject: H-COST: Dressing for the Occasion Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 22:03:36 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "The Rogue" The 60's did away with so many things that were great - now the next generation (which I'm in) seems to be working to pick up the pieces and learn about the "lost" traditions, and clothing is such a great place to start! But now that I've admitted my ignorance about things pre- 60's- wear-jeans-everywhere styles, I have to ask - just what are the essential differences between a cocktail dress and a dinner dress? And, of course, how did these details change in the last 200 years in Western European society? (perhaps showing a bit too much ignorance here with such an open question, but willing to take the chance!). In fact, is there a date when dresses for distinctive social occasions became the norm? Zelda -----Original Message----- >-Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com > >In a message dated 12/15/1999 3:39:19 AM Eastern Standard Time, >kayta@slip.net writes: > ><< Are there, in fact, *always* > such fashion individualists? >> > >I'd say not in social circles....where *fashion* originates [Working people >do not create fashion.....unless of course someone in the social set decides >a "work look" is fashionable.] Remember there are often strict rules as to >what one may wear to where ever...the opera, a ball, court. Could we tell the >difference between an opera gown & a ball gown? Someone in every period could. >My mother laments to this day about: "Everything was great 'til the 60s and >that 'do your own thing' mentality." What she means is before the 60's you >wore a cocktail dress for a cocktail party and a dinner dress to a dinner >party. You didn't just wear jeans everywhere. > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 16 00:18:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA26415 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 00:18:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA14062; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 23:37:13 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA17200 for h-costume-nopost; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 23:36:41 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from postal.grin.net (root@postal.grin.net [209.104.220.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA17183 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 23:36:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from [208.225.99.103] (ppp103.creative.net [208.225.99.103]) by postal.grin.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA04031 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 22:47:59 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: lilinah@mail.grin.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <00ab01bf478b$4bccc340$03000004@van1282> References: <00ab01bf478b$4bccc340$03000004@van1282> Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 22:36:59 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lilinah biti-Anat Subject: Re: H-COST: Dressing for the Occasion Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lilinah biti-Anat >-Poster: "The Rogue" > >The 60's did away with so many things that were great - now the next >generation (which I'm in) seems to be working to pick up the pieces and >learn about the "lost" traditions, and clothing is such a great place to >start! Well, but in the '60's (late '60's) i wore lots of vintage clothing - mostly 20's and 30's (as i don't much care for the '40's styles), some turm of the century, including hats, shoes, handbags, and outerwear. So every generation does some picking up of the pieces of seemingly lost traditions. >But now that I've admitted my ignorance about things pre- 60's- >wear-jeans-everywhere styles, I have to ask - just what are the essential >differences between a cocktail dress and a dinner dress? And, of course, >how did these details change in the last 200 years in Western European >society? (perhaps showing a bit too much ignorance here with such an open >question, but willing to take the chance!). In fact, is there a date when >dresses for distinctive social occasions became the norm? Having been born at the century mid-point, i did experience cocktail dresses and the tail end of dinner dresses. I *think* that a cocktail dress was shorter than a dinner dress and less foofy, often sleeveless, and often black, while a dinner dress was stylistically fussier, longer sleeved, might include chiffon, rhinestones, be more colorful... I'm speaking of the 1950's here. I can't say what the distinction was prior to this. In the 1930's i seem to recall that similar issues hold true - sleeker cut, sleeveless, single or limited colors for the cocktailwear, and foofier styles for the longer sleeved dinner dresses - of course in the 30's both cocktail and dinner dresses were often ankle or floor length. And after the 1960's, it wasn't "jeans everywhere" like it is now. In the early '70's a woman in Chicago still had to wear a dress or skirt to have lunch in a *nice* restaurant. And by the late 70's you still had to dress up, even if you were wearing pants. My mom was shocked when my folks moved to California in the early '70's and she saw women in tennis outfits in nice restaurants in Beverly Hills. But, then, there's a significant difference in clothing styles and standards in different parts of the US, much many of us don't always realize this. (this may have come to light a bit in the tattoo thread...) There was a restaurant in Santa Barbara at which not only did the women have to look "nice", but men had to wear ties - they kept a stash by the door so that any man lacking in the proper neckwear could be supplied without having to be turned away - and this throughout the 1970's. Lilinah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 16 01:17:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA26495 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 01:17:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA18435; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 00:37:32 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA02998 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 00:37:13 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta4.snfc21.pbi.net (mta4.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.142]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA02987 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 00:37:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from pacbell.net ([206.170.70.95]) by mta4.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8) with ESMTP id <0FMT00G0MP5TI6@mta4.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 23:37:08 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 17:27:13 +0000 From: Dietmar Subject: H-COST: Re: clothing mistakes To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <3857CF65.E41F1611@pacbell.net> Organization: Completely Disorganized MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-PBI-NC404 (Macintosh; I; PPC) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <001601bf4687$b478ad00$0600a8c0@kjroom> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dietmar Greetings, I've tried to resist, but I'm going to have to jump in on this. If you don't want to hear any more on the subject, please feel free to delete this right now. (I've deliberately left no attribution on the quote.) > What if those in our society who choose to wear what you consider > unusual fashions were to stare and turn up their nose at YOU when > you considered yourself dressed normally and decently? They would be perfectly within their rights. You have the right to wear what you wish. We reserve the right to make fun of you for it. ;-) (Same thing goes for tattoos and piercings.) > They would be rude of course, and so would you if you did the same > to them. No, they would be human. People have various reactions to each other. Laughing, staring or turning up one's nose are normal reactions, not being rude. For all I know, people turn their nose up at me on a daily basis. That's their right, and I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. > Would you stare and turn up your nose at a person with a disability? > Of course not. Don't be so sure. I've got an acquaintance that was driving his motorcycle down a dirt road filled with ruts at 3 am after a long night of heavy drinking. As might be expected, he lost control of the bike and as a result he's short a spleen. A year later he shattered his hip riding up the side of a ravine and dropping 40' down the other side. He walks with a limp due to his own stupidity and I think he's worthy of my sarcastic humor. ;-) > The fact that someone is different should not open them up to > ridicule and rebuke, unless they are doing something that is > harmful to YOU. That is my point. Let's face it, you are welcome to wear whatever you like or change your body in any way that you please (within the law of course). But, none of these things make you immune to other people forming an opinion about it. Putting a chip on your shoulder is asking to have it knocked off. Most of the time, I won't bother taking the bait. > And by the way, I am not offended for myself, but offended that > rational and mature people could be so petty and juvenile. Rational and mature people don't call others petty and juvenile. If others are offended, you're better off letting them defend themselves. Regards, Dietmar "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 16 01:34:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA26524 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 01:34:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA19313; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 00:54:03 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA07357 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 00:53:54 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from crcst351.netaddress.usa.net (crcst351.netaddress.usa.net [204.68.23.96]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id AAA07340 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 00:53:52 -0700 (MST) From: griffinhold@usa.net Received: (qmail 15474 invoked from network); 16 Dec 1999 07:54:33 -0000 Received: from nwcst322.netaddress.usa.net (204.68.23.67) by outbound.netaddress.usa.net with SMTP; 16 Dec 1999 07:54:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 26620 invoked by uid 60001); 16 Dec 1999 07:50:30 -0000 Message-ID: <19991216075030.26619.qmail@nwcst322.netaddress.usa.net> Received: from 204.68.23.67 by nwcst322 for [207.132.155.24] via web-mailer(M3.4.0.33) on Thu Dec 16 07:50:30 GMT 1999 Date: 16 Dec 99 00:50:30 MST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Long tunic X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (M3.4.0.33) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id AAA07345 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: griffinhold@usa.net > My lord downright rejected the tunic. Its too plain, it looks like a >dress, it doesn't matter if it is made from $20 a yard wool ("the >average person can't tell"), and he won't wear it unless I put more >embellishment on it (even then....?). > So, I am posting to find out what my fellow costumers can suggest that I >do with this. Oooh... rotten, rotten to the core. My lord is like Stephen and loves everything I make for him (or is too polite to say otherwise, but still wears it!) The tunic sounds lovely though and shouldn't need embellishment. But if he insists... another suggestion besides the tablet woven braid would be to use wool on wool applique outlined with couched gilded leather. (Folks, help me here - I'm thinking of the Tristan and Isolde hanging at the V&A. I'm brain dead though and blanking on the dates) It looks spiff and is simple and easy to do without lots of embroidery experience. Lyn Gillespie ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 16 01:38:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA26538 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 01:38:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA19538; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 00:58:12 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA08448 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 00:58:08 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA08438 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 00:58:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA08367 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 23:58:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-42.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.42]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA18082 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 23:58:03 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <000201bf479d$d282faa0$6ad3fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: References: <4.2.0.58.19991213114327.00a48240@djnash.mail.iastate.edu> <4.1.19991214233336.00a1e7e0@pop.slip.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: Was ugly clothes, now Anne of Cleves Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 20:53:01 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" > > -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > > There are several dresses from that part of Germany in M. Davenport's > costume book. My copy is so old it doesn't have an ISBN number - sorry. > > > Has anyone made a copy of the dress Anne of Cleves wore for the betrothal > >portrait? Thanks! I have that book on my list to check out at the library. I'll put an asterisk by it now. Michelle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 16 02:23:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA02682 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 02:23:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA21193; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 01:43:34 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA20076 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 01:43:14 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from postal.grin.net (root@postal.grin.net [209.104.220.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA20063 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 01:43:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from [208.225.99.103] (ppp103.creative.net [208.225.99.103]) by postal.grin.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA06952 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 00:54:29 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: lilinah@mail.grin.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19991215220337.7234.cpmta@c008.sfo.cp.net> References: <19991215220337.7234.cpmta@c008.sfo.cp.net> Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 00:43:27 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lilinah biti-Anat Subject: Re: H-COST: Embellishment for long tunic Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lilinah biti-Anat Meghan of Caerleon wrote: >A while ago, I posted about a tunic that I was making for my lord. >The tunic is long (just past the knees), made from red/scarlet wool >gabardine, with the sleeves and hem trimmed with 2 inch wide bands >of royal blue wool crepe. There is also a white cotton undertunic >that goes with it, which is machine embroidered in red and blue, >showing at the neck, sleeves and hem. > >I had made this ensemble for my lord as an anniversary present, and >I was hoping that it would change his mind as to the fact that >T-tunics can't be fancy, or for court garb. Unfortunately I got my >hopes up too high, it seems. > >My lord downright rejected the tunic. Its too plain, it looks like a >dress, it doesn't matter if it is made from $20 a yard wool ("the >average person can't tell"), and he won't wear it unless I put more >embellishment on it (even then....?). YOUR outfit for him sounds beautiful and i think he should certainly have been more appreciative. >I will attempt embriodery if I can figure out what I should do. My >experience with embriodery is limited to a few small favors I have >made. (Iron-on transfer, covered up with back stitch). I have no >idea what stitches are appropriate, (a few for motifs) or colors to >use, etc. The intended period is very late 12th century. My consort is Norman, early 12th century. He likes to make his own stuff (we are just friends). He made a deep orange twill wool tunic, around knee length, and sewed yellow-orange heather wool on the cuffs and neck (it matches his red hair exactly!). He cut the neck trim cloth like a facing but sewed it to the outside of the tunic. We were researching period decoration and all we could find was trim at neck, cuff, and hem with either circles, or lozenges, or alternating squares and lozenges. It's a relatively plain period. Then he embroidered a pattern of alternating circles and lozenges on the neck and cuff trim - he isn't much of a perfectionist, so i don't imagine it's very exact, but, hey! he did all this himself! He outlined each shape with stem stitch and filled it with couched laid work (he was "inspired" by the Bayeux embroidery i did and gave him as a "favor") completely filling the circles and lozenges. You could make a neck facing with the royal blue wool if you have enough left over. You could cut in one piece, or two pieces (front and back, or left and right) or even three pieces (back, front left, and front right). You could couch the outline of simple shapes in gold metallic cord or rich yellow wool, then fill with red and white, on the blue. Just suggestions - naturally you will have your own solutions or ideas. Check out the stitches in the Bayeux "Tapestry" - stem stitch, and couched laid word which work up pretty quickly - i made a small piece of Bayeux style embroidery. The URL Merouda the True of Beaumaris sent: http://www.regia.org/embroid.htm shows how to do couched laid work in the black and white sketches at the bottom of the page. If your lord doesn't appreciate all you work, i don't know what to say. Perhaps he needs a new persona in a period with fancier men's clothes "-) Lilinah SCA'ly known as Anahita Gauri al-shazhiya bint-Karim al-hakim al-Fassi _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 16 03:36:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA02276 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 03:36:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA24861; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 02:56:19 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA07971 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 02:55:34 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA07960 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 02:55:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) id <01JJKD0K6UK0004FX7@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 09:55:23 GMT Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.56.3]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) with ESMTP id <01JJKD0JLJWM004IT7@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 09:55:15 +0000 (GMT) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); 16 Dec 99 09:52:23 GMT0BST Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44) ; 16 Dec 99 09:52:11 GMT0BST Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.126) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; 16 Dec 99 09:52:02 GMT0BST Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 09:52:01 +0000 (GMT) From: Teddy Subject: Re: H-COST: Period waleless corduroy!! In-reply-to: <199912152054.NAA07513@net.indra.com> To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Teddy Waaah! The posting copied below is the first I've seen of that subject. Am I missing some posts? If so, could someone please send me the message this is following up on as it sounds interesting! > From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 11:46:41 -0800 > Subject: H-COST: Period waleless corduroy!! > > - -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > > Oh, and the alb is dated 1320-1340. > > Merouda/Cynthia > > - -- > Cynthia Long > Merouda the True of Beaumaris > Barony of Madrone > Kingdom of AnTir > Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of air and darkness, apparently!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 16 03:40:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA02285 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 03:40:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA25089; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 03:00:37 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA09160 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 03:00:33 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA09146 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 03:00:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) id <01JJKD6SKT4G004OM9@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 10:00:27 GMT Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.56.3]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) with ESMTP id <01JJKD6Q2V2O00446X@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 10:00:14 +0000 (GMT) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); 16 Dec 99 09:57:22 GMT0BST Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44) ; 16 Dec 99 09:57:14 GMT0BST Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.126) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; 16 Dec 99 09:57:04 GMT0BST Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 09:57:04 +0000 (GMT) From: Teddy Subject: Re: H-COST: For Those Engaged in 12th Night Sewing Madness In-reply-to: <199912152054.NAA07513@net.indra.com> To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Teddy > And its correlation: The bobbin thread always runs out six inches > before the end of a 10 yard hem! I Hate it when that happens, so hve invested in several packs of bobbins. I have at least two full of each colour I use a lot at all times and one of the less fequently used colours (hey, *everyone has favourites they use more often than others...) If I'm heading into a *big* job I'll wind a few extra bobbins before I start. It's still a pain but there's always another full bobbin to pop in when the one I'm using runs out. Like all good plans, there's a flaw. I have to *remember* to refil the empties. Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of air and darkness, apparently!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 16 03:57:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA02323 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 03:57:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA25688; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 03:17:29 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA19443 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 03:17:22 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA19342 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 03:17:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) id <01JJKDRS52IO004A8C@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 10:17:16 GMT Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.56.3]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) with ESMTP id <01JJKDRRWIJU004V5J@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 10:17:12 +0000 (GMT) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); 16 Dec 99 10:14:20 GMT0BST Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44) ; 16 Dec 99 10:13:58 GMT0BST Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.126) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; 16 Dec 99 10:13:53 GMT0BST Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 10:13:53 +0000 (GMT) From: Teddy Subject: H-COST: Re: Embellishment for long tunic In-reply-to: <199912152233.PAA14080@net.indra.com> To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Teddy If I might make a suggestion, Meghan.... > I may have made things sound more extreme than they are. Dumping my > lord and keeping the tunic isn't really an option I am willing to > consider. :-) > > > > If he's willing to "flatly reject" an anniversary gift, > > putting embroidery on it's not going to make him change his > > mind. > > I think it will. Have you considered *asking* this man of yours what he *want's for court garb and making him that? Then, you won't be wasting your time making things he won't wear. If he doesn't know what he wants, tell him to stop grumbling, make do with what he has and let you know when he's made up his mind. Just a suggestion.... Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of air and darkness, apparently!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 16 07:10:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA02929 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 07:10:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA04348; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 06:30:09 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA23981 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 06:29:55 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bodyguard.apsc.com (bodyguard.apsc.com [137.91.114.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA23967 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 06:29:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from nt82 (nt82nt82.apsc.com [137.91.1.154]) by apsc.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA21604 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 06:45:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from 137.91.1.30 by nt82 with SMTP (WorldSecure Server SMTP Relay(WSS) v4.3); Thu, 16 Dec 99 06:29:52 -0700 X-Server-Uuid: ec350824-b263-11d3-b3b4-00d0b7095258 Received: from nt170.apsc.com (nt170.apsc.com [137.91.1.61]) by mailhub.apsc.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA29604 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 06:29:50 -0700 (MST) Received: by nt170.apsc.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 06:29:50 -0700 Message-ID: <48B956EEB8ADD311822400902775A73A0733C7@nt15pv.apsc.com> From: "Knauf, Saragrace T(Z02001)" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: H-COST: History of Paisley? Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 06:29:49 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) X-WSS-ID: 144636DA49127-01-01 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Knauf, Saragrace T(Z02001)" Are the origins of paisley from the middle east? When did it become fashionable in western fashion? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 16 07:28:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA02960 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 07:28:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA05241; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 06:48:29 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA28103 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 06:48:20 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.70]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA28088 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 06:48:18 -0700 (MST) From: SNSpies@aol.com Received: from SNSpies@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.285a875e (4200) for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 08:47:43 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.285a875e.258a477e@aol.com> Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 08:47:42 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: History of Paisley? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 38 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: SNSpies@aol.com << Are the origins of paisley from the middle east? When did it become fashionable in western fashion? >> The origins are Indian, I believe, and it became fashionable during Victorian times. Nancy _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 16 07:43:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA02983 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 07:43:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA06063; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 07:03:21 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA01666 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 07:03:06 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bodyguard.apsc.com (bodyguard.apsc.com [137.91.114.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA01640 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 07:03:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from nt82 (nt82nt82.apsc.com [137.91.1.154]) by apsc.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA23247 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 07:18:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from 137.91.1.30 by nt82 with SMTP (WorldSecure Server SMTP Relay(WSS) v4.3); Thu, 16 Dec 99 07:03:02 -0700 X-Server-Uuid: ec350824-b263-11d3-b3b4-00d0b7095258 Received: from nt170.apsc.com (nt170.apsc.com [137.91.1.61]) by mailhub.apsc.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA01278; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 07:03:00 -0700 (MST) Received: by nt170.apsc.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 07:02:59 -0700 Message-ID: <48B956EEB8ADD311822400902775A73A0733C9@nt15pv.apsc.com> From: "Knauf, Saragrace T(Z02001)" To: "'aleed@dnaco.net'" , "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: H-COST: Corset fitting questions Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 07:02:56 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) X-WSS-ID: 14462E9C51665-01-01 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Knauf, Saragrace T(Z02001)" I finally finished my first corset. I used the corset generator on the "Elizabethan Costuming Page", and modified it so it was boned like the corset in Janet Arnold's book for the Pfalzgrafin (sp?). I should preface my questions by saying that I intend to make another corset-this was a trial run. My questions are: When you take your breast measurement, should you be wearing a bra? I think I made a mistake by wearing mine, consequently I can't tighten it enough (the edges meet). Should you tighten it at the waist so that the tabs stick out? (My metal stays go down into the tabs unlike the pattern in JAs) They seem to be riding on my hips, and I think I will get chafed. They are sticking straight down. It may be difficult to tighten because of the following: This one may be difficult to visualize. I couldn't fit a grommet in right at the waist, the junction of the main body of the corset to the tab because of the boning going down the center back. The center back is not parallel to the tab, it is at ~45 degree angle. (I tried to draw the right side below). Consequently there isn't enough room between the boning going down the center back and the first stay to put a grommet. There is enough room to put a hand stitched hole. Do you all make it parallel, leave the tab off, or leave the boning out?, or put in hand stitched holes? / / / _ _ I_I I_I Finally, I did take your suggestions and ordered precut stays. I used the 1/2 for the majority of the stays, only using 1/4 at the center back. Do you like the 1/4 better? I could see where they might make a more refined looking corset, would it be more comfortable? Thanks for your input ahead! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 16 07:47:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA02999 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 07:47:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA06387; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 07:07:03 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA02779 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 07:06:53 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bodyguard.apsc.com (bodyguard.apsc.com [137.91.114.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA02761 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 07:06:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from nt82 (nt82nt82.apsc.com [137.91.1.154]) by apsc.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA23465 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 07:22:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from 137.91.1.30 by nt82 with SMTP (WorldSecure Server SMTP Relay(WSS) v4.3); Thu, 16 Dec 99 07:06:50 -0700 X-Server-Uuid: ec350824-b263-11d3-b3b4-00d0b7095258 Received: from nt219.apsc.com (nt219.apsc.com [137.91.1.75]) by mailhub.apsc.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA01508 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 07:06:48 -0700 (MST) Received: by nt219.apsc.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 07:06:49 -0700 Message-ID: <48B956EEB8ADD311822400902775A73A0733CB@nt15pv.apsc.com> From: "Knauf, Saragrace T(Z02001)" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Corset fitting questions Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 07:06:38 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) X-WSS-ID: 14462E7052026-01-01 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Knauf, Saragrace T(Z02001)" Well, I see that my drawing didn't make it. Hope the verbal description is enough. -----Original Message----- From: Knauf, Saragrace T(Z02001) Sent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 7:03 AM To: 'aleed@dnaco.net'; 'h-costume@indra.com' Subject: H-COST: Corset fitting questions -Poster: "Knauf, Saragrace T(Z02001)" I finally finished my first corset. I used the corset generator on the "Elizabethan Costuming Page", and modified it so it was boned like the corset in Janet Arnold's book for the Pfalzgrafin (sp?). I should preface my questions by saying that I intend to make another corset-this was a trial run. My questions are: When you take your breast measurement, should you be wearing a bra? I think I made a mistake by wearing mine, consequently I can't tighten it enough (the edges meet). Should you tighten it at the waist so that the tabs stick out? (My metal stays go down into the tabs unlike the pattern in JAs) They seem to be riding on my hips, and I think I will get chafed. They are sticking straight down. It may be difficult to tighten because of the following: This one may be difficult to visualize. I couldn't fit a grommet in right at the waist, the junction of the main body of the corset to the tab because of the boning going down the center back. The center back is not parallel to the tab, it is at ~45 degree angle. (I tried to draw the right side below). Consequently there isn't enough room between the boning going down the center back and the first stay to put a grommet. There is enough room to put a hand stitched hole. Do you all make it parallel, leave the tab off, or leave the boning out?, or put in hand stitched holes? / / / _ _ I_I I_I Finally, I did take your suggestions and ordered precut stays. I used the 1/2 for the majority of the stays, only using 1/4 at the center back. Do you like the 1/4 better? I could see where they might make a more refined looking corset, would it be more comfortable? Thanks for your input ahead! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 16 07:50:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA03011 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 07:50:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA06748; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 07:09:55 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA03660 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 07:09:51 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.10]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA03641 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 07:09:48 -0700 (MST) From: Gaelscot@aol.com Received: from Gaelscot@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.cae539ef (4362) for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 09:09:12 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.cae539ef.258a4c88@aol.com> Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 09:09:12 EST Subject: H-COST: Re: tattoos etc. (ok to skip) To: h-costume-digest@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com It's not realistic to expect everyone to like or even respect a particular type of clothing or decoration style. It's avoiding reality to pretend that everything is regarded as equal. It's downright rude (IMO) to tattoo or pierce yourself in a spot that people can't avoid looking at and then dare them not to even THINK anything about you. Same goes for clothes. If you want to defy convention, then you have to expect that some people, maybe even a majority of people, will think less of you. If that bothers you, if you think of that as an insult rather than a challenge, then you picked the wrong way to defy convention. At least today you won't get burned at the stake or otherwise punished for unnatural behavior, or considered insane, as so many people were in the past. I don't know any of the tattooed or pierced people on this list. I can't judge their characters or actions. But I can tell you that IN GENERAL, I think both tattoos and piercings are stupid. I don't have any religious reasons, I am not politically conservative. I just think that they are either frivolous fashion statements, which are as fun and harmless as big-legged pants or shiny fabric shirts, or else they are defiant statements that invite reaction -- and that's the reaction I have. If people are so angry at "society" that they want to make a statement, they should try leading a remarkable life (doing something to make things better for people) rather than looking remarkable. I know that some people dress and decorate themselves as a way to express their actions or lifestyles, but it seems to me that more people just want to look weird and be angry, without doing anything. Looking at them, I have no way to tell which is which. And if they want to do it, fine. But that's what I'm going to think about it. And to bring this back to historic costuming . . . I think that people have always felt this way about bizarre fashions. Certainly there is enough published invective against particular styles, from hennins to pointy toed shoes. Once a style is far enough in the past (as seems to have happened with hippie clothes), it becomes quaint and fun. Maybe we should remember, when we're recreating aesthetic dress or giant codpieces or whatever, that these were not considered harmless eccentricities at the time, but shocking attacks on society. Maybe, in our recreation groups or events, we should try treating them that way -- especially if we have an audience. It would certainly add a new dimension to reenactments! Gail Finke _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 16 08:00:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA03039 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 08:00:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA07648; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 07:20:24 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA06842 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 07:20:19 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo25.mx.aol.com (imo25.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.69]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA06826 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 07:20:17 -0700 (MST) From: Gaelscot@aol.com Received: from Gaelscot@aol.com by imo25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.529d5971 (4362) for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 09:19:45 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.529d5971.258a4f01@aol.com> Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 09:19:45 EST Subject: H-COST: Re: embellishments for long tunic To: h-costume-digest@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com Suggestions? How about marriage counseling? What a rude, disrespectful, unappreciative, downright nasty way to treat you! I'd put the ensemble in the closet (or sell it for a hefty sum) and spend my time finding a good therapist (or a good lawyer). Sewing can't fix everything. Sorry, Meghan, but you have the same name as my daughter, and I can only imagine what I'd say to my daughter if someone treated her that way -- especially someone who is supposed to love her! Gail Finke _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 16 08:15:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA03073 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 08:15:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA09030; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 07:34:40 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA11171 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 07:34:29 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA11154 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 07:34:27 -0700 (MST) From: DDunker@aol.com Received: from DDunker@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.54c43cc1 (3978) for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 09:33:54 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.54c43cc1.258a5252@aol.com> Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 09:33:54 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: tattoos etc. (ok to skip) To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 39 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: DDunker@aol.com In a message dated 12/16/99 6:11:13 AM Pacific Standard Time, Gaelscot@aol.com writes: << It's not realistic to expect everyone to like or even respect a particular type of clothing or decoration style. It's avoiding reality to pretend that everything is regarded as equal. >> The "pretense" comment was made by a list member, as an assumption about me. I never stated anything about pretending. My comment was we should appreciate the diverse aspects of one another, and NOT judge others. Think about it, if you will, my friends. It matters not if you agree, or if we are all of the same belief. What matters is NOT JUDGING our fellow man. Freedom of expression is our right. Darla _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 16 08:21:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA03082 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 08:21:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA09752; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 07:40:58 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA13145 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 07:40:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA13124 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 07:40:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA24738; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 09:40:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA26424; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 09:41:31 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 09:41:30 -0500 (EST) From: aleed To: "Knauf, Saragrace T(Z02001)" cc: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: H-COST: Re: Corset fitting questions In-Reply-To: <48B956EEB8ADD311822400902775A73A0733C9@nt15pv.apsc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: aleed > I finally finished my first corset. I used the corset generator on the > "Elizabethan Costuming Page", and modified it so it was boned like the > corset in Janet Arnold's book for the Pfalzgrafin (sp?). I should preface > my questions by saying that I intend to make another corset-this was a trial > run. My questions are: > > When you take your breast measurement, should you be wearing a bra? I think > I made a mistake by wearing mine, consequently I can't tighten it enough > (the edges meet). Even with a bra, the edges shouldn't meet...though if you have a large bosom and a relatively small waist measurement, this will sometimes occur. My first corset didn't fit quite right, either. > > Should you tighten it at the waist so that the tabs stick out? (My metal > stays go down into the tabs unlike the pattern in JAs) They seem to be > riding on my hips, and I think I will get chafed. They are sticking > straight down. It may be difficult to tighten because of the following: > I'm having trouble visualizing this...if you have boning going down into the tabs, don't the tabs flare out over the hips when you tighten the corset at the waist? You should tighten the corset enough so that it feels secure, but not so much that you feel uncomfortable or have trouble breathing deeply; Elizabethan corsets aren't designed to "sculpt" the body the way Victorian corsets were. > below). Consequently there isn't enough room between the boning going down > the center back and the first stay to put a grommet. There is enough room > to put a hand stitched hole. Do you all make it parallel, leave the tab > off, or leave the boning out?, or put in hand stitched holes? I would recommend hand-stitched holes. > > Finally, I did take your suggestions and ordered precut stays. I used the > 1/2 for the majority of the stays, only using 1/4 at the center back. Do > you like the 1/4 better? I could see where they might make a more refined > looking corset, would it be more comfortable? Both are about the same comfort level for me...if you want a truly comfortable corset, a corset boned with bundles of broomstraw is far and away the most comfortable type I've worn. Good luck, Drea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 16 08:49:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA03232 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 08:49:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA12591; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 08:08:57 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA22365 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 08:08:44 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.68]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA22343 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 08:08:41 -0700 (MST) From: Cheryldee@aol.com Received: from Cheryldee@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.8a8a396a (5726) for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 10:08:09 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.8a8a396a.258a5a59@aol.com> Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 10:08:09 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: History of Paisley? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 44 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cheryldee@aol.com In a message dated 12/16/99 6:48:51 AM Mountain Standard Time, SNSpies@aol.com writes: << The origins are Indian, I believe, and it became fashionable during Victorian times. Nancy >> Forgive my poor menopausal mind, but I seem to remember something about the paisley motifs representing the eye of peacock feathers, something to do with Hindu mythology. Cheryl Odom _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 16 08:56:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA03264 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 08:56:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA13249; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 08:15:32 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA24383 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 08:14:56 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from fargpop1.farg.uswest.net (fargpop1.farg.uswest.net [207.109.224.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA24364 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 08:14:54 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 18708 invoked by alias); 16 Dec 1999 15:14:52 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-h-costume@indra.com@fixme Received: (qmail 18703 invoked by uid 0); 16 Dec 1999 15:14:52 -0000 Received: from bdsl118.farg.uswest.net (HELO john) (209.181.216.118) by fargpop1.farg.uswest.net with SMTP; 16 Dec 1999 15:14:52 -0000 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19991216091422.0095f100@pop.farg.uswest.net> X-Sender: kimbaird@pop.farg.uswest.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 09:14:50 -0600 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kim Baird Subject: Re: H-COST: Fwd: OT: QEI Poll In-Reply-To: <0.17c8d5ca.2589c3f0@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kim Baird YES, I'd vote for Glenda Jackson!! Kim At 11:26 PM 12/15/1999 -0500, you wrote: >-Poster: Fopdejour1@aol.com > >In a message dated 12/16/99 4:18:51 AM !!!First Boot!!!, >khopkins@cyberhighway.net writes: > ><< Bette Davis was not included. That's a shame. > > Kathlene > >> > >She was when I went there and looked...along with Glenda Jackson and I forget >the other > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 16 09:04:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA03282 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 09:04:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA14485; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 08:23:52 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA27537 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 08:23:45 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.xmission.com (mail.xmission.com [198.60.22.22]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA27519 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 08:23:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from [166.70.12.60] (helo=[166.70.12.60]) by mail.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 3.03 #3) id 11yKA6-0005xa-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 12:32:34 -0700 X-Sender: Francesca.da.Bari@pop.netaddress.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <38558D13.3834F712@serv.net> References: <002501bf45c8$5099dda0$a5e6173f@oemcomputer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 12:43:55 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Karalee Larsen Pugmire Subject: Re: H-COST: 13c buttons Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Karalee Larsen Pugmire >-Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > >> I am about to start on my next project.....a blue velvet cotehardie. I >>want to use silver buttons up the sleeves, and I need to know what kind >>of buttonhole was used. Were they like our modern "shirtfront" style, or >>were they the loop kind, or perhaps something else? This gown is going >>to be very special, so I want it to be right. > >The button holes were regular buttonholes sewn using the button hole >stitch. At this time, they didn't have the rounded edge at each end. >Just a row of buttonhold stitch on each side of the cut. And FWIW, your >gown is 14th century. :) I love blue velvet, sounds gorgeous. Is it >cotton or acetate? That determines whether or not you >cut the holes before or after you stitch them simply because the acetate >ravels easily. What kind of button would you use? Were the front pierced button appropriate or were they using post buttons? Francesca da Bari Cote du Ciel (Logan, Utah) Francesca.da.Bari _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 16 09:17:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA03296 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 09:17:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA16028; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 08:35:44 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA01927 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 08:35:16 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from Herb-Lore.com (mail.herb-lore.com [209.141.89.62]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01896 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 08:35:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from heather [207.204.223.213] by Herb-Lore.com (SMTPD32-5.05) id A4A97401C6; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 08:34:49 -0700 Message-ID: <003201bf47e3$7b99f9a0$0101a8c0@heather> From: "Heather" To: References: Subject: Re: H-COST: For Those Engaged in 12th Night Sewing Madness Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 08:34:52 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Heather" > I Hate it when that happens, so hve invested in several packs of > bobbins. I have at least two full of each colour I use a lot at all > times and one of the less fequently used colours (hey, *everyone > has favourites they use more often than others...) If I'm > heading into a *big* job I'll wind a few extra bobbins before I start. > It's still a pain but there's always another full bobbin to pop in when > the one I'm using runs out. I love this! When the bobbin runs out for me, I usually just take it as a sign that I need a small break. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 16 09:21:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA03306 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 09:21:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA16993; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 08:41:03 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA03964 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 08:40:46 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bodyguard.apsc.com (bodyguard.apsc.com [137.91.114.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA03935 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 08:40:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from nt82 (nt82nt82.apsc.com [137.91.1.154]) by apsc.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA01216 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 08:56:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from 137.91.1.30 by nt82 with SMTP (WorldSecure Server SMTP Relay(WSS) v4.3); Thu, 16 Dec 99 08:40:42 -0700 X-Server-Uuid: ec350824-b263-11d3-b3b4-00d0b7095258 Received: from nt170.apsc.com (nt170.apsc.com [137.91.1.61]) by mailhub.apsc.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA08915 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 08:40:39 -0700 (MST) Received: by nt170.apsc.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 08:40:37 -0700 Message-ID: <48B956EEB8ADD311822400902775A73A0733CF@nt15pv.apsc.com> From: "Knauf, Saragrace T(Z02001)" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Re: Corset fitting questions Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 08:40:37 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) X-WSS-ID: 1447D87064330-01-01 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Knauf, Saragrace T(Z02001)" Thank you for your suggestions! Makes me feel better that not even the expert got it right the very first time! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 16 09:24:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA03312 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 09:24:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA17436; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 08:44:02 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA05034 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 08:43:56 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.uts.ohio-state.edu (mail1.uts.ohio-state.edu [128.146.214.30]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA05022 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 08:43:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from mai040RS1.lib.ohio-state.edu (mai040rs1.lib.ohio-state.edu [128.146.115.31]) by mail1.uts.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA16693 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 10:43:53 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19991216104744.006b5e44@pop.service.ohio-state.edu> X-Sender: mhamilto@pop.service.ohio-state.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 10:47:44 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Marsha J. Hamilton" Subject: Re: H-COST: changing attitudes In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Marsha J. Hamilton" >>>granted, i do not work in a high visibility position (web >developer/programmer) but i think you can get away with more extreme styles >than say, 5 years ago, in the work place...... I think the computer industry has accelerated the loosening of corporate expectations of appearance. If you desperately need a hot-shot super-nerd programmer/webmaster/etc. and the person who can do the job wears a pony-tail or has a pierced nose or purple hair, as an employer, you get over it really quick if the person can walk out the door and be hired by your competitor that afternoon. The computer industry's early formation as a "garage" industry of younger people with little concern for corporate image (image and its accompanying restrictions almost killed IBM, remember?) has been a driving force. I offer for proof Bill Gates. Everyone jokes about him cutting his own hair and dressing like a high-school a-v club member---but he is the wealthiest human on our planet. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 16 09:42:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA03363 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 09:42:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA19336; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 09:01:00 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA11433 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 09:00:49 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA11422 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 09:00:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) id <01JJKPQRPS0G0042G0@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 16:00:44 GMT Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.56.3]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) with ESMTP id <01JJKPCH682K004F68@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 15:48:31 +0000 (GMT) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); 16 Dec 99 15:45:38 GMT0BST Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44) ; 16 Dec 99 15:45:19 GMT0BST Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.126) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; 16 Dec 99 15:44:11 GMT0BST Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 15:44:11 +0000 (GMT) From: Teddy Subject: H-COST: UK Costume Convention In-reply-to: <199912161515.IAA24453@net.indra.com> To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Teddy Hello all, Anyone interested in attending the CostumeCon UK 2000 (Please note this is *not* anything to do with "Costume Con," just similar in name) they now have a web page up at www.yorkmpd.demon.co.uk I'm nothing to do with the convention other than planning to attend it. Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of air and darkness, apparently!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 16 10:02:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03462 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 10:02:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA22182; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 09:21:52 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA17953 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 09:21:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from deliverator.io.com (root@deliverator.io.com [199.170.88.17]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA17939 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 09:21:35 -0700 (MST) From: ches@io.com Received: from fnord.io.com (IDENT:ches@fnord.io.com [199.170.88.12]) by deliverator.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03844 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 10:21:33 -0600 Received: from localhost (ches@localhost) by fnord.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA30326 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 10:21:33 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fnord.io.com: ches owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 10:21:33 -0600 (EST) To: Multiple recipients of list H-COSTUME Subject: H-COST: Italian Ren again Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: ches@io.com What is the best book out there for making Italian Ren costumes? Sincerely, F. Havas ches@io.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 16 10:08:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03471 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 10:08:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA22876; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 09:27:19 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA19555 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 09:26:55 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [195.194.177.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA19530 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 09:26:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from csv6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA17581.; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 16:32:56 GMT Received: from staff-Message_Server by csv6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 16:26:35 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5.2 Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 16:26:05 +0000 From: "KATE M BUNTING" To: Subject: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #870 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id JAA19539 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "KATE M BUNTING" Gail Finke wrote: Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> If you want to defy convention, then you have to expect that some people, maybe even a majority of people, will think less of you. If that bothers you, if you think of that as an insult rather than a challenge, then you picked the wrong way to defy convention. Well said! I have absolutely no compunction about staring at those of our students who have green hair or whatever, if I feel like it, as I reckon they're doing it to invite attention. (I'm more likely to avert my eyes from pierced faces, though - the bare idea of sticking bits of metal through sensitive parts of one's anatomy makes my flesh creep!) My own pet fashion peeve is "designer stubble". There may be a certain macho appeal about a man being unshaven for a good reason, but stubble worn with smart clothes just looks scruffy IMHO. I suppose it's just a question of the search for something new. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 16 10:13:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03484 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 10:13:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23551; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 09:32:31 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA20978 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 09:32:19 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from kuku.excite.com (kuku-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.63]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA20959 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 09:32:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from roary.excite.com ([199.172.148.162]) by kuku.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP id <19991216162929.UHGN19682.kuku.excite.com@roary.excite.com> for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 08:29:29 -0800 Message-ID: <12841180.945361769741.JavaMail.imail@roary.excite.com> Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 08:29:29 -0800 (PST) From: StitchWitch To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: re: tattoos & culture Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 144.163.130.106 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: StitchWitch > it has been suggested by some anthropologists that primitive peoples > actually started the practice of tattooing and other body modifications > partly to differentiate themselves from animals - after all, animals dont > dye/braid/shave their hair, wear jewelry, or mark their bodies. it could be > that as we have moved away from living close to nature making the difference > between animals and humans doesnt need to be as explicit, and the reason the > west has traditionally viewed body modifications as "bad" or "strange" is > because it is associated with these less "advanced" people. There is also evidence that tattooing has been used for medical/magical reasons. On the skin of the fellow that was found in the Austrian Alps a few years ago, as well as others, are marks that correspond to places that had injuries and illness. The patterns are very different from what might be considered clan or tribal, or even decorative. Kate ---- StitchWitch Unseen in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove. - P.G. Wodehouse, 1930 _______________________________________________________ Visit Excite Shopping at http://shopping.excite.com The fastest way to find your Holiday gift this season _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 16 10:50:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03567 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 10:50:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29379; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 10:08:38 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA03042 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 10:08:06 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03005 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 10:08:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA24481 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 09:08:22 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <38591CBC.262475EB@serv.net> Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 09:09:17 -0800 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 14c buttons References: <002501bf45c8$5099dda0$a5e6173f@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > What kind of button would you use? Were the front pierced button > appropriate or were they using post buttons? A small knob button with a shank (post) or a cloth button with a shank sewn on. Check out the Museum of London Textiles & Clothing or Dress Accessories. Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of AnTir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 16 10:50:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03571 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 10:50:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29550; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 10:09:56 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA03785 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 10:09:51 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03771 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 10:09:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA24494 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 09:10:18 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <38591D31.C05D0A45@serv.net> Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 09:11:13 -0800 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Period waleless corduroy!! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris Bad bunny! See below. Cynthia > Waaah! The posting copied below is the first I've seen of that > subject. > > > Oh, and the alb is dated 1320-1340. Opus Anglicanum: English Medieval Embroidery The Victoria & Albert Musuem 26 September to 24 November 1963 The Arts Council 1963 Printed in England at The Curwen Press, Plaistow, Long E.13 Exhibit selected by Donald King, deputy keeper of Textiles at the V&S (at the time) No ISBN Plate 14 shows appliqued Opus Anglicanum onto velvet. But the velvet is *exactly* like waleles corduroy. And it is on an Alb, clerical of course, but still a garment. -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of AnTir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 16 12:07:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA03709 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 12:07:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09548; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 11:22:56 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA00371 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 11:22:24 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.wa.home.com [24.0.2.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA00336 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 11:22:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from [24.9.58.36] by mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991216182221.NTDX20526.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 10:22:21 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.0c (197) Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 10:27:39 -0800 Subject: Re: H-COST: History of Paisley? From: "R.L. Shep" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19991216182221.NTDX20526.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "R.L. Shep" There are a number of explanations of what this design actually is..... It is refered to as a *kalga* or *mango*... also it is said to come from the Urdu word *galb* meaning *hook*. A very interesting explanation of this term which is found in *The Sari* by Linda Lynton is as follows: *The kalga motif is now so ubiquitous in Indian sari and other textile designs that it is hard to imagine it is only about 250 years old. It evolved from 17th Century floral and tree-of-life designs that were created in expensive, tapestry-woven Mughal textiles, primarily patkas - sashes - made for the Mughal court. The early designs depicted simple plants with large flowers and thin wavy stems, small leaves and roots. In the course of time the design became denser, with more flowers and leaves, giving rise to tree-of-life and mixed floral patterns issuing from vases or a pair of leaves. By the late 18th Century the archetypal curved point at the top of an ellipitical outline had evolved. The kalgas created on Kashmir shawls, which became the fashion in Europe for over a century, were certainly the most imaginative and intricate; and it was from the imitations of these shawls woven in factories at Paisley, Scotland, that the name 'paisley' was derived, still commonly used in Euopre and the United States.* She goes on to talk about the asociation with both mango and hook in different languages of India. ~!~ R.L.Shep http://www.rlshep.com ---------- >From: Cheryldee@aol.com >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: Re: H-COST: History of Paisley? >Date: Thu, Dec 16, 1999, 7:08 AM > > >-Poster: Cheryldee@aol.com > >In a message dated 12/16/99 6:48:51 AM Mountain Standard Time, >SNSpies@aol.com writes: > ><< The origins are Indian, I believe, and it became fashionable during >Victorian > times. > > Nancy >> > Forgive my poor menopausal mind, but I seem to remember something about the >paisley motifs representing the eye of peacock feathers, something to do with >Hindu mythology. Cheryl Odom > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 16 13:19:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA03948 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 13:18:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA19907; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 12:37:30 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA26360 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 12:36:45 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from curly.excite.com ([199.172.153.144]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA26315 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 12:36:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from patti.excite.com ([199.172.148.159]) by fortune.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP id <19991216193015.WXHD22679.fortune.excite.com@patti.excite.com> for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 11:30:15 -0800 Message-ID: <14679722.945372615012.JavaMail.imail@patti.excite.com> Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 11:30:15 -0800 (PST) From: StitchWitch To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Embellishment for long tunic Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 144.163.130.106 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: StitchWitch > Stephen, do you have a brother who is single? You are most assuredly a > rare find. No, no! Much too risky! Brothers can be as different as night and day. I say we wrestle Stephen to the ground and clone him! Kate - she who would not mind a gentleman to decorate . . . ;) ---- StitchWitch Unseen in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove. - P.G. Wodehouse, 1930 _______________________________________________________ Visit Excite Shopping at http://shopping.excite.com The fastest way to find your Holiday gift this season _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 16 13:34:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA03998 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 13:34:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA21454; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 12:51:10 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA01009 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 12:50:31 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from redwood.co.sacramento.ca.us (redwood.co.sacramento.ca.us [192.147.67.161]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00983 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 12:50:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from hhsmail.dhhs.co.sacramento.ca.us (10.5.11.246 [10.5.11.246]) by redwood.co.sacramento.ca.us with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id ZAVH9PPA; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 11:46:56 -0800 Received: by hhsmail.dhhs.co.sacramento.ca.us with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 11:51:01 -0800 Message-ID: <1D0F5BB98E98D311B17E0008C75D0B3A03EC3B@hhsmail.dhhs.co.sacramento.ca.us> From: "Bergdahl, Stephen" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Embellishment for long tunic Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 11:50:58 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Bergdahl, Stephen" Sorry Ladies, but I am one of kind. As to a blood sample, sorry but I am busy right now hand making my wife's Yule presents. The necklace and earrings are done, the candles have to be wrapped, and I have to put the finishing touches to the chatelaine. Maybe after the new year. Yours Stephen "Oh well, the best laid plans of mice." "And men." "Men? What have men got to do with it!" -----Original Message----- From: StitchWitch [mailto:stitchwitch@excite.com] Sent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 11:30 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Embellishment for long tunic -Poster: StitchWitch > Stephen, do you have a brother who is single? You are most assuredly a > rare find. No, no! Much too risky! Brothers can be as different as night and day. I say we wrestle Stephen to the ground and clone him! Kate - she who would not mind a gentleman to decorate . . . ;) ---- StitchWitch Unseen in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove. - P.G. Wodehouse, 1930 _______________________________________________________ Visit Excite Shopping at http://shopping.excite.com The fastest way to find your Holiday gift this season _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 16 13:49:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA04049 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 13:49:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA23601; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 13:07:03 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA06634 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 13:06:49 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mb09.swip.net (mb09.swip.net [193.12.122.212]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06614 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 13:06:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from [212.151.175.170] (d212-151-175-170.swipnet.se [212.151.175.170]) by mb09.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA06226 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 21:06:25 +0100 (MET) X-Sender: md21199@dredd.swip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3855BEED.F4245965@worldnet.att.net> References: <19991213213932.17746.qmail@web2103.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 19:34:51 +0100 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Ninni Pettersson Subject: Re: H-COST: New Italian Ren. fan Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Ninni Pettersson At 04.52 +0100 99-12-14, don and carolyn richardson wrote: >For cheaper books, try finding the Riverside series on >various artists - I can recommend the one on Carpaccio. Seconded. Lots of nice pictures, *and* close ups, in this one. My current banquet dress is inspired by the red dress worn by the bride in the painting "Meeting of the Betrothed Couple and the Departure of the Pilgrims". (Though mine is blue and the sleeves is not so elaborate. I like it so much, and it fits me so well, that currently I have very little incentive to make another "best dress" :-) Another cheap book with lots of nice colour photos is Phaidon Press' _Renaissance Painting_. Other Phaidon books, like _Everyday-life Painting_ and _Portrait Painting_, also have rather a lot of Italian Renaissance paintings in them. /Ninni Pettersson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 16 13:53:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA04064 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 13:53:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24196; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 13:11:30 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA08232 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 13:11:22 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA08219 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 13:11:20 -0700 (MST) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.50dadbaf (4364) for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 15:10:40 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.50dadbaf.258aa140@aol.com> Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 15:10:40 EST Subject: H-COST: Bad dye problem - Please help To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 45 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com Dear List, I just heard from a friend that a burgundy/fuschia gay nineties costume (stored in the dark) has begun to spot fade/bleach. I believe the fabric was mostly polyester. Is there any way to re-dye this gown to salvage it? I'm told it has orange fade spots. This was a costume I made some three years ago, but anything you can do to help me help her would be appreciated. angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes Theatrical Costume & Clothing Design "What fates impose, that men must needs abide; It boots not to resist both wind and tide." King Henry VI, Part III, IV, iii - W. Shakespeare QUICK-LINK: http://come.to/costumes FULL URL: http://sj.znet.com/~thespian/angil/index.html _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 16 14:30:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA04389 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 14:30:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28768; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 13:46:58 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA20751 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 13:46:17 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mailhub.iastate.edu (mailhub.iastate.edu [129.186.1.102]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA20729 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 13:46:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from H59013.iastate.edu (costumes.center.iastate.edu [129.186.127.4]) by mailhub.iastate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA28494 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 14:46:14 -0600 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19991216144436.0098ce20@djnash.mail.iastate.edu> X-Sender: djnash@djnash.mail.iastate.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 14:46:10 -0600 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Doris J Nash Subject: Re: H-COST: For Those Engaged in 12th Night Sewing Madness In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Doris J Nash At 03:26 PM 12/15/99 -0500, you wrote: >-Poster: "Jessica Wilbur" > > > > Murphy's Laws of Sewing (Anonymous) > > > Whenever the construction process is going well the bobbin thread runs out. > >And its correlation: The bobbin thread always runs out six inches before >the end of a 10 >yard hem! And another--The bobbin runs out at the _beginning_ of that 10-yard hem, but you don't realize it until you've finished "stitching" it! Doris Doris Nash Ames, IA Feed hungry children around the world--free! Visit http://thehungersite.com to find out how. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 16 14:36:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA04436 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 14:36:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29991; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 13:56:07 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA24196 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 13:56:01 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from anarchy.io.com (anarchy.io.com [199.170.88.101]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24184 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 13:55:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from dragon (aus-as3-018.io.com [208.2.106.18]) by anarchy.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA29615 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 14:55:53 -0600 Message-Id: <199912162055.OAA29615@anarchy.io.com> From: "Amanda Reeves" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: tattoos etc. Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 14:58:31 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Amanda Reeves" This is a potpourri of several posts............. > -Poster: KATHLEEN.MAHER@asu.edu > We sat back and watched her completely absorbed > > in herself and her hair and ignore most of her customers. > What makes that different from the bad service that I got last night > from a very well, but very conventionally dressed, waitress, who was more > interested in gossiping with the other servers, checking her mainstream, but > fashionable make-up, and trying not to mar her salon-done nails. And I went > to high school with plenty of girls who looked like her who didn't do squat in > the classroom. > And people like the one that I mentioned above, do you think that she > wants to do research and wear *historical* clothing. No, she will make a > outfit that makes her look 20th-century pretty, not be caught dead in proper > head gear, and expect you to tell her how lovely she looks. I don't disagree with you on either of these points except that this person you are describing would probably NEVER be caught dead in costume/garb anyway (I know plenty of girls like her), where the pierced/blue haired practically costumes him/herself every day and would probably be more likely to "Goth" up and go somewhere. > My point (and I do have one) is that all groups of people contain > people who are lazy and self-absorbed and that I have met (percentage wise) > more "normal" people who are like that as I have people who look strange. Agree, I'm just tired of society telling me I have to accept people (conventional or otherwise). I will accept people that are good and honorable no matter what they look like by nature of by self definition. If I give someone the impression that I don't approve - it has nothing to do with what I see rather than what I perceive. What next, is society going to try to force me to accept "soccer moms"! > -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com > It's not realistic to expect everyone to like or even respect a particular > type of clothing or decoration style. Absolutely, and I do believe we are talking in generalizations with this post. > It's downright rude (IMO) to tattoo or > pierce yourself in a spot that people can't avoid looking at and then dare > them not to even THINK anything about you. We had a VERY interesting experience at the last Ren. Faire that we went to. We were taking a break, sitting having a cup of coffee, and across form us was a table full of young pierced, gothicish folks (18+). One of the males had everything we could see multiple pierced, numerous ones on the bridge of his nose, spiked hair and a TERRIBLE attitude. Even when someone would innocently glance at him, he would mouth off. I noticed what was going on so decided to "observe". I watched as people would look at him (even just a glance -as people do in crowds) and every time he would immediately pop-off about them staring at him, take a picture it'll last longer, type of cockiness. He was NON-STOP attitude. We began to see him as humorous (but wouldn't dare laugh at him - well, with him knowing anyway). The wisdom of the child, "My 13 year old said, "If he didn't want people to look at him then he shouldn't pierce himself all over like that to attract the attention." > Same goes for clothes. If you want > to defy convention, then you have to expect that some people, maybe even a > majority of people, will think less of you. If that bothers you, if you think > of that as an insult rather than a challenge, then you picked the wrong way > to defy convention. Beautifully put. > I don't know any of the tattooed or pierced people on this list. I have no tattoos, never wanted one, but my husband has 3. He is going on his third ponytail (I'm making a reliquary for his second one - a good foot of a braid) and working on a ZZTop beard. He is also a very large man and has his own set of issues as to people's stereotypes of big folks, had to deal with a woman at work that was scared of him because of his size - even though he's very charming and polite.....it was just his size. When he asked his boss exactly what it was that he did, his boss said, "well, you are big". He is a Technical Writer (for 14 years) Manager and has a college degree in Anthropology. He is very intelligent, very well read, doesn't drink alcohol or smoke, a vegetarian and very active......but a victim of stereotyping. > -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" > My husband and son are growing their hair out right now. My husband wants > to put his in a braid down his back. He is a professional , > dress clothes and tie. Both of them have thick curly hair and are tired of > trying to find a hairstyle to get rid of the poof. << Charlene>>> Long hair on men seems acceptable here in Richmond. My 13 and 8 year old sons wear their hair long. It's required. They participate in the High School drama department - all plays except UIL competition - the Middle School is the grooming station for the High School drama department, so they let them audition for all the plays, the elementary kids get to be townspeople - and the teacher/director requires them (males and females) to grow their hair long. They do so many classics and also have a wonderful summer program called Shakespeare Under the Stars (http://www.emilyann.org/sutstars.html). The directors want them to all have long hair instead of wigs. My 18 year old, that just graduated, cut his hair right after his last Shakespeare. My 20 year old son wears his hair short and looks very conservative..............which he definitely is NOT! He's a trip :-) You can't tell a book by it's cover, but you can definitely read an out-and-out attitude! Amanda _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 16 14:39:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA04445 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 14:39:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00314; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 13:58:12 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA24908 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 13:58:02 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d01.mx.aol.com (imo-d01.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.33]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24891 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 13:58:00 -0700 (MST) From: Fopdejour1@aol.com Received: from Fopdejour1@aol.com by imo-d01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.78976005 (4073) for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 15:57:29 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.78976005.258aac39@aol.com> Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 15:57:29 EST Subject: H-COST: looking for... To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 45 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Fopdejour1@aol.com Sorry for the waste of everyone's time, but would RL Shep and Penny Lanier mind contacting me off list with their email addresses...I would like to get an opinion from them. Thanks, Charles Burke _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 16 14:54:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA04950 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 14:54:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA02612; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 14:13:58 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA00695 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 14:13:46 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA00661 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 14:13:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA04389 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 13:14:06 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <38595654.2A56B797@serv.net> Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 13:15:01 -0800 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: H-COST: tattoos & attitudes OT Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris Does anyone besides me think that this thread is *WAY* off topic? What does this have to do with Historical Costuming? Current attitudes, yes, historical? Hmmmmm. I reserve your right to talk about this, but does it have to be here? Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of AnTir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 16 16:03:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA05042 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 16:03:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA11034; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 15:22:41 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA26757 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 15:22:23 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from c008.sfo.cp.net (c008-h003.c008.sfo.cp.net [209.228.14.192]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA26725 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 15:22:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (cpmta 12180 invoked from network); 16 Dec 1999 14:22:18 -0800 Date: 16 Dec 1999 14:22:17 -0800 Message-ID: <19991216222217.12176.cpmta@c008.sfo.cp.net> X-Sent: 16 Dec 1999 22:22:17 GMT Received: from [207.102.246.97] by mail.canada.com with HTTP; 16 Dec 1999 14:22:17 PST Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com, sca-garb@list.uvm.edu From: S Nielsen X-Mailer: Web Mail 3.3 Subject: H-COST: Embellishment for long tunic Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: S Nielsen Greetings, I feel that it is necessary to do some damage control here. Apparently, my original post was worded far more strongly than my situation warranted. I was attempting to provide some background for my request. Next time I will either not post or post my questions without any background, as it appears I have aired dirty laundry that doesn't exist. I am truly grateful for those who emailed with suggestions for tablet woven trim, embroidery or couching. For those who responded with relationship advice, I wasn't soliciting for that. For the record: - my lord does not have bad manners. I would prefer to know the truth about how he feels towards something I have made him than have him hide it from me to spare my feelings, and this is the agreement we have always had in our relationship. - my lord was not rude, rotten or any of a number of other adjectives that have been applied to him. - we do not need marriage counselling, a lawyer or a messy break-up over my lord's tastes in garb. I realize that I shouldn't have worded the original post the way I did, but it's too late now. My original post should have said, "I have a long tunic of such and such description. How can I make it fancier?" Its taken a long time for me to crawl out of lurker-dom, and this is enough to make me think six times before posting something. I will now return you to your regularly scheduled costuming list. Thanks for listening. :-) Meghan __________________________________________________________ Get your FREE personalized e-mail at http://www.canada.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 16 17:02:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA05159 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 17:02:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA18550; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 16:22:11 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA20582 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 16:21:11 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d01.mx.aol.com (imo-d01.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.33]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA20547 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 16:21:05 -0700 (MST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.71ad8be2 (4597) for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 18:20:29 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.71ad8be2.258acdbd@aol.com> Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 18:20:29 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: re: clothing mistakes To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 44 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 12/15/1999 9:07:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, DDunker@aol.com writes: << You owe me an apology. >> No I don't <> Who's being judgmental now? I ask a question about a very obscure and obtuse statement that seems to make little sense to me and then calmly make a reasonable suggestion that you skip the thread rather than censor it. Perhaps you owe us all an apology for asking us to stop a very interesting topic simply because YOU don't like it. And I never called you names. Lighten up! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 16 17:07:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA05167 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 17:07:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA19298; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 16:26:32 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA22618 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 16:26:20 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.68]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA22592 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 16:26:18 -0700 (MST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.83eacf2b (4354) for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 18:25:40 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.83eacf2b.258acef3@aol.com> Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 18:25:39 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: History of Paisley? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 45 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AnnBWass@aol.com Actually, the shawls originated in Kashmir, and the pine cone mutated to the paisley design. They were fashionable starting in the early 19th century. Ladies also used them for dresses. Machine-made imitations of the expensive hand-made shawls were made in Paisley, Scotland, among other places; hence, the name. There are several good histories on the origins of the shawl. I have momentarily lost my references, but can post them later. Ann Wass _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 16 17:14:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA05179 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 17:14:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA20361; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 16:34:03 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA25391 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 16:33:51 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d10.mx (imo-d10.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.42]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25376 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 16:33:49 -0700 (MST) From: Morghana@aol.com Received: from Morghana@aol.com by imo-d10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.6db07fb1 (3969) for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 18:33:31 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.6db07fb1.258ad0cb@aol.com> Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 18:33:31 EST Subject: H-COST: Cloned Stephen? Was re: embellishment for a long tunic To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 45 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Morghana@aol.com In a message dated 12/16/99 2:51:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, Bergdahl, Stephen" > Booo!! Hiss!! You're also a genial sadist, Stephen....evidently delighting in torturing the rest of costuming womankind who are not as lucky as your lady is. :::wry grin::: I hope she truly appreciates you..... :) ~Morghana (who truly appreciates her S.O. for what he does, but it isn't ANYTHING like Stephen......) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 16 17:15:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA05183 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 17:15:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA20556; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 16:35:20 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA25974 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 16:35:15 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25959 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 16:35:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p33.directcon.net [206.170.184.82]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA12351 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 15:34:02 -0800 Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 15:34:02 -0800 Message-Id: <199912162334.PAA12351@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: For Those Engaged in 12th Night Sewing Madness Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson >I Hate it when that happens, so hve invested in several packs of >bobbins. I have at least two full of each colour I use a lot at all >times and one of the less fequently used colours (hey, *everyone >has favourites they use more often than others...) If I'm >heading into a *big* job I'll wind a few extra bobbins before I start. >It's still a pain but there's always another full bobbin to pop in when >the one I'm using runs out. > >Like all good plans, there's a flaw. I have to *remember* to refil the >empties. This is one of the reasons I love my Singer 20U commercial machine. The bobbin winder is designed so that you can put a second cone or spool of thread on the machine, thread up the bobbin, and it will wind while you stitch. By the time bobbin #1 is empty, #2 is full. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 16 17:18:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA05187 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 17:18:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA20974; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 16:38:25 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA27196 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 16:38:19 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.mlt.net (mail.mlt.net [209.168.11.73]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA27175 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 16:38:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from Mackie.com ([209.168.18.190]) by mail.mlt.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52697U300L100S0V35) with SMTP id net for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 15:34:58 -0800 Received: from Mackie-Message_Server by Mackie.com with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 15:38:13 -0800 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.2 Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 15:37:56 -0800 From: "Colleen McDonald Hinrichs" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Dream costume? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id QAA27178 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Colleen McDonald Hinrichs" Here's a question for the list: If you had the time, money, inclination, to make a costume that is completely outside of your current interests, what would it be? Or maybe a better way of phrasing it - what types of costumes do you absolutely admire on others, but will probably never get around to making for yourself? For me, the answer would be an exceedingly well-done Middle Eastern (can't give you a specific period - I don't know enought about it). There's just something about the look that is visually appealing to me. The other option would be high court Chinese - we have a costumer in my area who does T'ang Dynasty stuff that is to die for and I just drool whenever she goes all out. Looking forward to seeing other responses, Colleen _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 16 17:20:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA05193 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 17:20:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA21208; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 16:40:49 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA28013 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 16:40:19 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA27984 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 16:40:16 -0700 (MST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.b80fba69 (4597) for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 18:39:45 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.b80fba69.258ad240@aol.com> Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 18:39:44 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: tattoos & attitudes OT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 44 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 12/16/1999 4:15:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, keltia@serv.net writes: << Does anyone besides me think that this thread is *WAY* off topic? What does this have to do with Historical Costuming? >> Interestingly, it does have something to do with it. I, like a lot of you, spend my quality costume time with clothes and manners where tattooing would not be the norm. I never thought about it. But the discussion has brought to mind two specific instances of tattoos and historic situations. In the film "The Bounty" Mel Gibson comes to dinner not wearing his high necked tunic because of the new tattoos on his neck he's gotten from the natives. The Capt. rebukes him and orders him to wear the tunic at the table. There. Tattooing as a costuming character statement. A clever use of it historically that enhances the show. That's what I like to see costumes do. The other incident is a design for "Three Penny Opera" I saw where the designer gave Polly a butterfly tattoo on her bicep. Another...if more fantastical, statement enhancing character and plot thru costume. I'm sure there are others....and others yet to be devised by clever designers.....who may have read this thread! I wish people wouldn't get so emotional about it. You'd think we were discussing abortion or creationism! That's what is unpleasant about the thread. I certainly am not the ogre I'm supposed to be. I've never said I, myself, find tattoos trashy. Personally, it seems to me that a tattoo is like a drawing: every one is different. I find spider webs up the calf a little too much but I had a friend with a Yin/Yang about the size of a 1/2 dollar on his shoulder I thought nice. All I've done is ask questions for discussion....mainly to stop irrational flaming posts from the over emotional who didn't read things too closely. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 16 17:24:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA05200 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 17:24:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA21685; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 16:44:11 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA29366 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 16:43:55 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ntserver1.mainsaver.com ([206.17.202.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA29343 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 16:43:53 -0700 (MST) Received: by HP-LH3 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 15:43:54 -0800 Message-ID: <5B38B8D7EED8D211997F00A0C9E57FB91DB6E8@HP-LH3> From: MAGGIE SECARA To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Dream costume? Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 15:43:53 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MAGGIE SECARA I've always wanted to do a wide wide 18th century pannier gown, but I have no place (and the wrong figure) to wear it, so oh la, well there it is. Think of all the money I've saved. MaggiRos > ---------- > From: Colleen McDonald Hinrichs[SMTP:Colleen@mackie.com] > Reply To: h-costume@indra.com > Sent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 3:37 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: H-COST: Dream costume? > > > -Poster: "Colleen McDonald Hinrichs" > > Here's a question for the list: > > If you had the time, money, inclination, to make a costume that is > completely outside of your current interests, what would it be? Or maybe > a better way of phrasing it - what types of costumes do you absolutely > admire on others, but will probably never get around to making for > yourself? > > For me, the answer would be an exceedingly well-done Middle Eastern (can't > give you a specific period - I don't know enought about it). There's just > something about the look that is visually appealing to me. > > The other option would be high court Chinese - we have a costumer in my > area who does T'ang Dynasty stuff that is to die for and I just drool > whenever she goes all out. > > Looking forward to seeing other responses, > > Colleen > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 16 17:24:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA05204 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 17:24:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA21693; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 16:44:13 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA29513 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 16:44:09 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.ne.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.ne.home.com [24.2.4.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA29482 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 16:44:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from C59303A ([24.4.53.172]) by mail.rdc1.ne.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991216234403.NUAS12231.mail.rdc1.ne.home.com@C59303A> for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 15:44:03 -0800 Message-ID: <005701bf4883$f70fb2a0$ac350418@C59303A> From: "Ches" To: References: Subject: Re: H-COST: Dream costume? Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 05:43:01 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.5600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.5600 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Ches" For me it would be not only the costume but the body too, from the movie GiGi, that white gown she wears when Gaston picks her up for their first night out as a couple. Sincerely, FHavas Dallas, Texas ----- Original Message ----- From: "Colleen McDonald Hinrichs" To: Sent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 5:37 PM Subject: H-COST: Dream costume? > > -Poster: "Colleen McDonald Hinrichs" > > Here's a question for the list: > > If you had the time, money, inclination, to make a costume that is completely outside of your current interests, what would it be? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 16 17:25:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA05208 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 17:25:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA21834; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 16:44:46 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA29725 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 16:44:43 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web2102.mail.yahoo.com (web2102.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA29708 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 16:44:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 27378 invoked by uid 60001); 16 Dec 1999 23:44:41 -0000 Message-ID: <19991216234441.27377.qmail@web2102.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.21.255.17] by web2102.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 15:44:41 PST Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 15:44:41 -0800 (PST) From: Kristen Morgaine Sieber Subject: H-COST: WAY OT - altering t-shirt To: Historic Costume , SCA-Garb list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kristen Morgaine Sieber This is way out of the realm of these lists, but I don't know where to go. I have a new t-shirt that I LOVE, but it has a high, man's-type neck, which i don't like. Is there some way to change the neck? Uh oh, i don't have a serger! Thanks. Kristen Morgaine Sieber SCA Morgaine of Glastonbury __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 16 17:26:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA05212 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 17:26:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA22019; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 16:46:04 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA00348 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 16:45:59 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com (imo16.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA00315 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 16:45:55 -0700 (MST) From: DDunker@aol.com Received: from DDunker@aol.com by imo16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.c96585ea (3940) for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 18:45:22 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.c96585ea.258ad391@aol.com> Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 18:45:21 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: re: clothing mistakes To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 39 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: DDunker@aol.com In a message dated 12/16/99 3:23:43 PM Pacific Standard Time, AlbertCat@aol.com writes: << Who's being judgmental now? I ask a question about a very obscure and obtuse statement that seems to make little sense to me and then calmly make a reasonable suggestion that you skip the thread rather than censor it. Perhaps you owe us all an apology for asking us to stop a very interesting topic simply because YOU don't like it. And I never called you names. Lighten up! ____________________ >> I see, I shall consider the source and refer future comments to more mature readers. Darla PS Your attitude is nasty _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 16 17:27:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA05216 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 17:27:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA22191; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 16:47:31 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA00938 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 16:47:27 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from redwood.co.sacramento.ca.us (redwood.co.sacramento.ca.us [192.147.67.161]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA00922 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 16:47:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from hhsmail.dhhs.co.sacramento.ca.us (10.5.11.246 [10.5.11.246]) by redwood.co.sacramento.ca.us with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id ZAVH94MQ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 15:45:17 -0800 Received: by hhsmail.dhhs.co.sacramento.ca.us with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 15:49:23 -0800 Message-ID: <1D0F5BB98E98D311B17E0008C75D0B3A03EC3C@hhsmail.dhhs.co.sacramento.ca.us> From: "Bergdahl, Stephen" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Dream costume? Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 15:49:15 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Bergdahl, Stephen" -Poster: "Colleen McDonald Hinrichs" Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA05225 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 17:30:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA22678; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 16:51:00 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA01699 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 16:49:15 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA01682 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 16:49:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p33.directcon.net [206.170.184.82]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA13886 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 15:48:02 -0800 Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 15:48:02 -0800 Message-Id: <199912162348.PAA13886@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Dream costume? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson At 03:37 PM 12/16/1999 -0800, you wrote: > >-Poster: "Colleen McDonald Hinrichs" > >Here's a question for the list: > >If you had the time, money, inclination, to make a costume that is completely outside of your current interests, what would it be? Or maybe a better way of phrasing it - what types of costumes do you absolutely admire on others, but will probably never get around to making for yourself? > Oooh, good question! For me, it would be the ultimate unaffordable Elizabethan court gown: Custom woven fabrics, metallic "tissue" and silver camlet. real gold bullion and jewel embroidery, hand made needle lace for the ruff, and proper jewelry. Kid shoes with tiny pinking. Buttons and aiglets with pierced hollows and perfume inside. Hand knitted silk stockings with silver clocks. I might deign to use cultured pearls and synthetic rubies. Margo Anderson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 16 17:33:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA05229 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 17:33:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA22934; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 16:52:52 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA02390 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 16:51:08 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from viper.columbus.rr.com (viper.columbus.rr.com [204.210.252.254]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02377 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 16:51:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from dsc.columbus.rr.com (dhcp26129131.columbus.rr.com [24.26.129.131]) by viper.columbus.rr.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA02382 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 18:50:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <021c01bf4820$f5c75d20$83811a18@dsc.columbus.rr.com> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Dream costume? Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 18:54:58 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Greetings! >-Poster: "Colleen McDonald Hinrichs" > >Here's a question for the list: > >If you had the time, money, inclination, to make a costume that is completely outside of your current interests, what would it be? Or maybe a better way of phrasing it - what types of costumes do you absolutely admire on others, but will probably never get around to making for yourself? One thing comes to mind: Ceremonial Byzantine--the type of thing an Empress would wear. Susan _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 16 17:38:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA05239 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 17:38:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA23676; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 16:58:32 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA04567 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 16:56:43 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA04547 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 16:56:40 -0700 (MST) From: Panmela@aol.com Received: from Panmela@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.5b114498 (15547) for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 18:56:08 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.5b114498.258ad618@aol.com> Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 18:56:08 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: Embellishment for long tunic To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Panmela@aol.com Could someone explain what tablet woven edging is? Thanks. Pamela D. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 16 17:44:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA05251 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 17:44:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA24317; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 17:04:30 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA06938 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 17:02:46 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ewey.excite.com (ewey-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.191]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA06923 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 17:02:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from patti.excite.com ([199.172.148.159]) by ewey.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP id <19991217000054.VHLH321.ewey.excite.com@patti.excite.com> for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 16:00:54 -0800 Message-ID: <30741493.945388854070.JavaMail.imail@patti.excite.com> Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 16:00:54 -0800 (PST) From: StitchWitch To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Dream costume? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 144.163.130.106 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: StitchWitch > For me, it would be the ultimate unaffordable Elizabethan court gown: Custom > woven fabrics, metallic "tissue" and silver camlet. real gold bullion and > jewel embroidery, hand made needle lace for the ruff, and proper jewelry. > Kid shoes with tiny pinking. Buttons and aiglets with pierced hollows and > perfume inside. Hand knitted silk stockings with silver clocks. > > I might deign to use cultured pearls and synthetic rubies. You just summed up my fantasy costume! But I'd use real rubies. No limits on the dream, right? ;) Now, if I had time, talent, cash/credit/extortion funds . . . Kate ---- StitchWitch Unseen in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove. - P.G. Wodehouse, 1930 _______________________________________________________ Visit Excite Shopping at http://shopping.excite.com The fastest way to find your Holiday gift this season _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 16 18:15:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA05287 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 18:15:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA27854; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 17:35:28 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA18870 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 17:35:00 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from scl-ims.phoenix.com (scl-ims.phoenix.com [134.122.1.73]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA18852 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 17:34:58 -0700 (MST) Received: by scl-ims.phoenix.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 16:34:26 -0800 Message-ID: <1F176F2C2977D311B3300090270E63784D2E1F@scl-exch.phoenix.com> From: Cynthia Barnes To: "H-Costume (E-mail)" Subject: H-COST: modern fashions Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 16:34:51 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cynthia Barnes >Does anyone besides me think that this thread is *WAY* off topic? What does this have to do with Historical Costuming? Current attitudes, yes, historical? Hmmmmm. I reserve your right to talk about this, but does it have to be here? I believe the list charter is Stone Age to the Jazz Age. Here it is "re-creating period costume, from the Bronze age to the mid-20th Century". Yes, 1999 clothing, fashion & accessories are OT. So were ships, and international trade riots, but those petered out quickly. Those of us on the digest cant autodelete boring topics or rude people, Sigh. --cin Cynthia the neither Virtuous nor True 408.570.1023 Cynthia_Barnes@phoenix.com Phoenix Technologies 411 E. Plumeria Dr. San Jose CA 95134 "I think animal testing is a terrible idea; they get all nervous and give the wrong answers." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 16 18:38:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA05328 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 18:38:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA00619; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 17:58:22 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA26663 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 17:58:15 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d02.mx.aol.com (imo-d02.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.34]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA26647 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 17:58:13 -0700 (MST) From: Cheryldee@aol.com Received: from Cheryldee@aol.com by imo-d02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.acaba3b (4317) for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 19:57:37 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.acaba3b.258ae481@aol.com> Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 19:57:37 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: Bad dye problem - Please help To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 44 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cheryldee@aol.com In a message dated 12/16/99 1:12:03 PM Mountain Standard Time, MzScahlett@aol.com writes: << I just heard from a friend that a burgundy/fuschia gay nineties costume (stored in the dark) has begun to spot fade/bleach. I believe the fabric was mostly polyester. >> A permanent marker pen in the appropriate color is about the only thing I can think of that will "stick" to polyester in a color that dark. I do it all the time with costumes but it might show more on something meant to be seen up close. Try on a seam allowance first. Cheryl Odom _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 16 18:44:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA05342 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 18:44:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA01339; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 18:03:48 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA28501 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 18:03:44 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA28480 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 18:03:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from mercury.physics.adelaide.edu.au (mercury [129.127.36.44]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id LAA32496 for ; Fri, 17 Dec 1999 11:33:04 +1030 (CST) Received: from localhost by mercury.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.65v4.0/1.1.19.2/16Nov99-0332PM) id AA31509; Fri, 17 Dec 1999 11:33:04 +1030 Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 11:33:03 +1030 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Dream costume? In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Thu, 16 Dec 1999, Colleen McDonald Hinrichs wrote: > > -Poster: "Colleen McDonald Hinrichs" > > Here's a question for the list: > > If you had the time, money, inclination, to make a costume that is completely outside of your current interests, what would it be? Or maybe a better way of phrasing it - what types of costumes do you absolutely admire on others, but will probably never get around to making for yourself? > Pick any upper class costume from any era with a high degree of authenticity. Two things spring to mind....18th century with an accurate 100% silk brocade, and an Edwardian afternoon dress with lots of real silk and decent lace. With luck maybe one day I will get a chance at that sort of thing, but the costume I am sort of interested in but will probably never make would be a Minoan one. I think it would be an interesting technical challenge, but my husband would never let me leave the house - and probably keep all photos to himself too *grin* ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 16 18:46:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA05347 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 18:46:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA01580; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 18:06:05 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA29347 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 18:06:00 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta4.snfc21.pbi.net (mta4.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.142]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA29334 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 18:05:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from pacbell.net ([206.170.71.29]) by mta4.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8) with ESMTP id <0FMV002OC1PEK0@mta4.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 17:05:40 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 16:26:13 +0000 From: Dietmar Subject: H-COST: Re: Embellishment for long tunic To: h-costume@indra.com, SCA-GARB@LIST.UVM.EDU Message-id: <3859129D.E54D96A9@pacbell.net> Organization: Completely Disorganized MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-PBI-NC404 (Macintosh; I; PPC) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <19991216222217.12176.cpmta@c008.sfo.cp.net> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dietmar Greetings Meghan, > I feel that it is necessary to do some damage control here. > as it appears I have aired dirty laundry that doesn't exist. > Its taken a long time for me to crawl out of lurker-dom, and this > is enough to make me think six times before posting something. Please don't feel hesitant to post. I'm afraid that what happened was a common (and regrettable) problem with electronic communication. Without the non-verbal signals that people need to rely on for interpreting emotions, people made the mistake of substituting their own emotional reaction to the situation. It was undoubtedly a subconscious reaction. While I can't guarantee that similar things won't happen again, I do promise that some will have learned from this thread. :-) And I'm sure we can still help you. Towards that end... If you'd like to embellish the tunic with trim, this is a great site: Calontir Trim -- http://www.calontirtrim.com/ I've managed to get trim as wide as 2-1/4" around a keyhole neckline. While it's not simple, it is possible. If you'd like some helpful hints, let me know. Good luck, Dietmar "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 16 18:47:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA05351 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 18:47:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA01815; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 18:07:17 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA29764 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 18:07:13 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA29723 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 18:07:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (dialup-209.244.87.88.Washington2.Level3.net [209.244.87.88]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA03735 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 17:07:00 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <002001bf482c$c1dfe520$5857f4d1@pavilion> From: "Andrea Gideon" To: References: Subject: Re: H-COST: Dream costume? Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 20:19:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Andrea Gideon" > > -Poster: "Colleen McDonald Hinrichs" > > Here's a question for the list: > > If you had the time, money, inclination, to make a costume that is completely outside of your current interests, what would it be? Or maybe a better way of phrasing it - what types of costumes do you absolutely admire on others, but will probably never get around to making for yourself? I think it would have to be that red velvet dress that Rhett makes Scarlet wear to Ashley's birthday party. I don't care if it's acurate. I know I'm too fat to look good in that style and I look awful in red, but I love that dress. Another dream costume would be a mid-18th century court gown. Andrea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 16 18:55:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA05407 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 18:55:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA02368; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 18:14:42 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA02092 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 18:14:02 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA01970 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 18:13:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (dialup-209.244.87.88.Washington2.Level3.net [209.244.87.88]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA15518 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 17:13:01 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <004001bf482d$a900e6c0$5857f4d1@pavilion> From: "Andrea Gideon" To: "H-Costume" Subject: H-COST: slightly OT corsets Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 20:25:16 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003D_01BF4803.AA64D5A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Andrea Gideon" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003D_01BF4803.AA64D5A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Has anyone tried to wear a tight laced corset under modern clothes? I'm = not talking about fetish issues, but mearly getting better = figure-control than a girdle under an evening gown. I'm assuming it = would be a Victorian corset, but don't these affect the shape of the = bust also? Do these give support to the bust? Andrea ------=_NextPart_000_003D_01BF4803.AA64D5A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Has anyone tried to wear a tight laced corset under = modern=20 clothes?  I'm not talking about fetish issues, but mearly getting = better=20 figure-control than a girdle under an evening gown.  I'm assuming = it would=20 be a Victorian corset, but don't these affect the shape of the bust = also? =20 Do these give support to the bust?
Andrea
------=_NextPart_000_003D_01BF4803.AA64D5A0-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 16 19:08:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA05492 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 19:08:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA03689; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 18:28:22 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA06635 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 18:28:12 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA06616 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 18:28:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from test (ip211.toronto26.dialup.canada.psi.net [154.11.83.211]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id UAA01878 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 20:28:01 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19991216000804.00a5ebe0@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 00:08:04 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: RE: Queen Elizabeth's Effigy Corset? In-Reply-To: <199912141505.IAA23341@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >> > If one of our lucky Londoners could go find the article, I'm sure a >> > number of us would be appreciative. (If I had the information on >> > which journal it was in, with the date and page number, I could >> > probably request a copy for study, as could Drea.) >> >> Yes, yes!! I would be eternally grateful for any info on that article! In >> fact, we might be able to work out some sort of exchange...replica >pinking >> tools, or carnelian beads, or silk cloth of gold... >> >> Thanks, >> >> Drea (no, I'm not desparate) Leed Hi Drea! Add me to the oh so desparate list! Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 16 19:28:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA05520 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 19:28:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA05591; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 18:48:23 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA13209 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 18:48:08 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.compassnet.com.au ([203.26.180.18]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA13184 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 18:48:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from glendar ([203.26.180.138]) by mail.compassnet.com.au (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA29846 for ; Fri, 17 Dec 1999 12:53:18 +1100 Message-ID: <013901bf4830$bff1fb00$8ab41acb@glendar> From: "Glenda Robinson" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Embellishment for long tunic Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 12:47:55 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Glenda Robinson" Pamela, There's quite a bit on tablet weaving on the net, which explain better than a short email Try this URL - http://www.google.com/search?q=tablet+weaving which is a search engine result which gives a lot of tablet weaving urls worth a look. The most thorough book on tablet weaving is "The Techniques of Tablet Weaving" by Peter Collingwood. It's not cheap, but can probably be found through ILL. Glenda. -----Original Message----- From: Panmela@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Friday, 17 December 1999 11:04 Subject: Re: H-COST: Embellishment for long tunic > >-Poster: Panmela@aol.com > >Could someone explain what tablet woven edging is? Thanks. > >Pamela D. > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 16 19:31:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA05529 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 19:31:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA06008; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 18:51:44 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA14353 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 18:51:39 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d08.mx.aol.com (imo-d08.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.40]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA14335 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 18:51:37 -0700 (MST) From: AliaClaire@aol.com Received: from AliaClaire@aol.com by imo-d08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.c6ecea2 (4240) for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 20:51:06 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.c6ecea2.258af109@aol.com> Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 20:51:05 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: slightly OT corsets To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 45 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AliaClaire@aol.com In a message dated 12/16/1999 8:15:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, ahgideon@earthlink.net writes: << Has anyone tried to wear a tight laced corset under modern clothes? I'm not talking about fetish issues, but mearly getting better figure-control than a girdle under an evening gown. I'm assuming it would be a Victorian corset, but don't these affect the shape of the bust also? Do these give support to the bust? >> I've thrown a sweatshirt and other things over my (1870ish) corset when I've been running around the house fitting a dress. I've found it is simply wonderful for a bad back, and yes, it does support the bust. Better then modern undergarments! I love the silhouettes it gives, but I've never worn it out. It is noticeable. I wish it wasn't...or else, I wish I could be that shape without it, LOL. -Alison Stacy AliaClaire@aol.com Acstacy@cc.owu.edu Ohio Wesleyan University _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 16 20:12:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA05575 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 20:12:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA09425; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 19:31:56 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA26329 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 19:31:30 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.wa.home.com [24.0.2.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA26311 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 19:31:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from [24.9.58.36] by mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991217023126.VERR20526.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 18:31:26 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.0c (197) Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 18:36:45 -0800 Subject: Re: H-COST: re: clothing mistakes From: "R.L. Shep" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19991217023126.VERR20526.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "R.L. Shep" I have seen rotten remarks on this list but this is getting way out of hand. ~!~ R.L.Shep http://www.rlshep.com ---------- >From: DDunker@aol.com >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: Re: H-COST: re: clothing mistakes >Date: Thu, Dec 16, 1999, 3:45 PM > > >-Poster: DDunker@aol.com > >In a message dated 12/16/99 3:23:43 PM Pacific Standard Time, >AlbertCat@aol.com writes: > ><< > Who's being judgmental now? I ask a question about a very obscure and obtuse > statement that seems to make little sense to me and then calmly make a > reasonable suggestion that you skip the thread rather than censor it. > > Perhaps you owe us all an apology for asking us to stop a very interesting > topic simply because YOU don't like it. > > And I never called you names. > > Lighten up! > ____________________ >> >I see, I shall consider the source and refer future comments to more mature >readers. > >Darla > >PS Your attitude is nasty > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 16 20:14:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA05579 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 20:14:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA09720; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 19:34:51 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA27214 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 19:34:43 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA27204 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 19:34:41 -0700 (MST) From: Morses3@aol.com Received: from Morses3@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.ee927c6c (3962) for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 21:34:09 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.ee927c6c.258afb21@aol.com> Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 21:34:09 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Embellishment for long tunic To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 45 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Morses3@aol.com In a message dated 12/16/1999 8:06:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, dietmar@pacbell.net writes: << While I can't guarantee that similar things won't happen again, I do promise that some will have learned from this thread. :-) And I'm sure we can still help you. Towards that end... >> Along this line, I'm taking a bread from my usual lurker mode to follow up this statement. I've been following this thread from the very beginning since I am working on garb from the same period and I have found this whole discussion to be very helpful. I've gotten lots of ideas that I wouldn't have thought of on my own, as well as sources for trim that I didn't know existed. >From a fellow lurker who doesn't post much, remember how much you have still learned from the posts of others...... Perry _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 16 20:17:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA05583 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 20:17:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA10196; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 19:37:43 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA28106 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 19:37:39 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.7]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA28092 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 19:37:37 -0700 (MST) From: Morses3@aol.com Received: from Morses3@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.d155f26e (3962) for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 21:37:03 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.d155f26e.258afbce@aol.com> Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 21:37:02 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Embellishment for long tunic To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 45 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Morses3@aol.com In a message dated 12/16/1999 9:35:11 PM Eastern Standard Time, Morses3@aol.com writes: << 'm taking a bread from my usual lurker mode >> I meant break, really I did (next time I'll use the spell checker) :-) Perry _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 16 20:20:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA05595 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 20:20:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA10389; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 19:40:13 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA28854 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 19:40:09 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA28843 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 19:40:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from test (ip30.toronto7.dialup.canada.psi.net [154.5.73.30]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id VAA14096 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 21:40:05 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19991216212602.00a6eba0@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 21:26:02 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: RE: H-COST: Dream costume? In-Reply-To: <5B38B8D7EED8D211997F00A0C9E57FB91DB6E8@HP-LH3> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Danielle Nunn At 03:43 16/12/99 -0800, you wrote: > >-Poster: MAGGIE SECARA > >I've always wanted to do a wide wide 18th century pannier gown, but I have >no place (and the wrong figure) to wear it, so oh la, well there it is. >Think of all the money I've saved. > >MaggiRos Greetings, I agree with you on this one. I would love to do something with massive panniers. I seem to remember a picture of a particular sack-back gown. sigh. If only I had some reason to do it. Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 16 20:30:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA05611 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 20:30:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA11127; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 19:49:40 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA01817 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 19:49:20 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA01807 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 19:49:18 -0700 (MST) From: DDunker@aol.com Received: from DDunker@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.ae76a6c3 (3935) for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 21:48:43 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.ae76a6c3.258afe8a@aol.com> Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 21:48:42 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: re: clothing mistakes To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 39 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: DDunker@aol.com Yes, it is out of hand. I told the previous poster he owed me an apology and he refused. He was rude to me, and accused me of "pretending". Personal slams are against my nature, I still feel he owes me an apology. I should NOT have to apologize for defending my beliefs. Darla _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 16 21:19:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA05730 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 21:19:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA15967; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 20:39:38 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA16683 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 20:38:47 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from netwiz.net (Mail.NetWiz.Net [208.136.106.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA16668 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 20:38:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from agnes (BayArea56k576.NetWiz.Net [208.164.208.176]) by netwiz.net (8.9.2/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA15474 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 19:38:41 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3859AFE0.18B0@netwiz.net> Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 19:37:04 -0800 From: Susan Fatemi X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: History of Paisley? References: <0.83eacf2b.258acef3@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Susan Fatemi AnnBWass@aol.com wrote: > > -Poster: AnnBWass@aol.com > > Actually, the shawls originated in Kashmir, and the pine cone mutated to the > paisley design. They were fashionable starting in the early 19th century. > Ladies also used them for dresses. Machine-made imitations of the expensive > hand-made shawls were made in Paisley, Scotland, among other places; hence, > the name. There are several good histories on the origins of the shawl. I > have momentarily lost my references, but can post them later. > Ann Wass The shawls and the "botteh" (paisley motif) really originated in Persia. (shawl is a Persian word) They were men's garments, worn around the waist or over the shoulder. Much of the Moghul culture was actually Persian in origin as was the language of the court. There's at least one theory that the paisley motif was originally a stylized date tree flower and dates back to the Sumerians! (can't find that reference right now.) But it was the Indian shawls that were brought back to Europe by British and French soldiers and traders in the late 18th c. There was much cross fertization for the next century or so! One way to tell the difference, is that the Indian shawls were often pieced around the edges. As the art decayed, they started embroidering the designs rather than weaving them. A couple of references are John Irwin's The Kashmir Shawl, Ed Rossbach's The art of Paisley, and Monique Levi-Strauss's The Cashmere Shawl (trans. from the French and mostly about the French "paisleys") Frank Ames book is supposed to be the best, but it's expensive. Meg Andrew's article is at: http://www.victoriana.com/library/paisley/shawl.html They're lovely things,no matter where they come from. Susan Fatemi -- Oh Noh! Kimonos! susanf@netwiz.net http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 16 21:20:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA05734 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 21:19:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA15970; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 20:39:38 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA16807 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 20:39:07 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA16797 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 20:39:06 -0700 (MST) From: DDunker@aol.com Received: from DDunker@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 6.0.79dd64ca (4199) for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 22:38:33 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.79dd64ca.258b0a39@aol.com> Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 22:38:33 EST Subject: H-COST: My apologies to my fellow list members To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 39 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: DDunker@aol.com I sincerely apologize for taking the time and attention of my fellow list members. I was insulted by a list member, but should have communicated privately with that person. Cliche as it may be.. I must say, two wrongs still don't make a right. Darla _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 16 21:34:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA05753 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 21:34:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA17430; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 20:52:32 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA20836 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 20:52:12 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA20810 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 20:52:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.230.185] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11yoR5-0005Ds-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 19:52:08 -0800 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 18:23:01 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: For Those Engaged in 12th Night Sewing Madness In-Reply-To: References: <199912152054.NAA07513@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 09:57 AM 12/16/1999 +0000, you wrote: > >-Poster: Teddy > > >> And its correlation: The bobbin thread always runs out six inches >> before the end of a 10 yard hem! > >I Hate it when that happens, so hve invested in several packs of >bobbins. Teddy For me, it's that the bobbin runs out 6" before the spool will, and there's still a few inches worth of stitching left to go... and that WAS on the spare bobbin...I swear my machine eats bobbin thread... cjc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 16 21:36:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA05757 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 21:36:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA17433; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 20:52:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA20936 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 20:52:26 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA20902 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 20:52:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.230.185] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11yoRI-0005Ds-00; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 19:52:21 -0800 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 19:15:31 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: H-COST: Fwd: Re: Re: Period waleless corduroy!! Cc: Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA) -Garb Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" I asked my friend, the weaver, for her explanation, in 'lay' terms... Carol / Gra/inne, herewith ... >From: "Sarida Bradley" To: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" >Subject: Re: Re: Period waleless corduroy!! Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 > >Hi Carol, > >> Sarida-- May I invite you, as someone I believe will be able to >> speak knowledgeably and in lay terms, to respond, please? Thanks! And >> Brightest blessings to you and yours for the upcoming Solstice...may your >> skies be clear that you may see the Moon at apogee [14% nearer and looking >> larger 'than life' for the only time in 133 yrs.]...Gra/inne / Carol >> >On Wed, 15 December 1999, Merouda the True of Beaumaris wrote: > >Thanks, we are looking forward to clear skies and a bright moon. > >At first pass on the question I've come up with the following: > >Corduroy, one of my references translates this as "Cord or thread of the >King". Corded fabrics were woven from earliest times on all types of >looms. Corded fabrics can be weft or warp cords and are usually achieved >with varying thickness of yarn, but weave structure can produce corded >effects as well. I tend to think that early Corduroy as a piled fabric was >a time intensive and therefore expensive fabric because of the cutting and >brushing of the pile after it was woven. So it was refered to as the >"corded cloth of kings". > >> >> Plate 14 shows appliqued Opus Anglicanum onto velvet. But the velvet >> >> is *exactly* like waleles corduroy. And it is on an Alb, clerical of >> >> course, but still a garment. > >> >In my mind, the definition of corduroy is piled fabric a la velvet or >> velveteen that had been shaved into cords or wales. If you take away the >> wales, how can you still have corduroy. > >Corduroy is not just shaved velvet, it is also supported by a corded weave >structure. The wales of corduroy usually always parallel the warps. The >wefts are tightly woven into a number of warps the then floated over a >number >of warps. The pile is cut across the floating wefts and then brushed up. >Between the weft throws that float over the warps are wefts that are inter- >woven between every warp, thus locking the wefts that will be cut into the >fabric structure. The sequence is something like; floating weft, locking >weft, >floating weft, locking weft, floating weft, locking >weft..................... > >Warps are finer are more closely set than the floating wefts. The locking >wefts are also finer and disappear between the floating wefts when the >pile is cut and brushed. The floating wefts would need to be of a softer >fiber that could be brushed and fluffed out. > >I cannot understand how there could be a wale-less or uncorded Corduroy. >The very word describes the nature of the fabric and piled fabrics without >cords are something else, entirely. > >> >Also, while we are on the topic, what is the difference between velvet >and >> velveteen? This came up a while ago, but the question was never answered. >> To my eye they seem the same, except velveteen has a shorter pile. Is this >> the only difference? > >Velvet and Velveteen are similar but there are a number of differences. >Velvet >is a warp-pile fabric made from a double woven structure. This means there >are literally two sets of warps and wefts that interlock at points all >through the >cloth. One warp is for the pile, the other is for the ground cloth that >holds it all >together. The pile warps are wound on a separate warp beam (usually 5 to 10 >times longer than the ground warp). The cloth is woven with ground wefts >beaten >in for a few shots then a steel bar is inserted on edge forcing the pile >warps up out >of the ground cloth, ground wefts are beaten in to secure the lifted warps >and then >the pile warps are cut while the steel bar is in place. Velvet was >traditionally silk >pile on a cotton ground cloth. > >Velveteen is a weft-pile fabric, single weave structure, though cut and >brushed >in the same way as velvet. It gives a cloth that is very like velvet, but >not as labor >and material intensive. Traditionally velveteen is made of cotton pile and >cotton >ground cloth. Velveteen does usually have a shorter pile than velvet >because of >the weft face pile and single weave structure. > >I hope this is helpful, > > >Sarida Steed-Bradley > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Dec 16 21:48:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA05770 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 21:48:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA19130; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 21:08:01 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA25475 for h-costume-nopost; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 21:07:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA25455 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 21:07:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA09379 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 23:07:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA24968 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 23:08:18 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 23:08:18 -0500 (EST) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: To dream the impossible dream costume... 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