From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 1 09:32:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA18295 for ; Mon, 1 Apr 2002 09:32:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g31DR3U26058; Mon, 1 Apr 2002 06:27:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g31DR2020955; Mon, 1 Apr 2002 06:27:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com (tungsten.btinternet.com [194.73.73.81]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g31DQN020837 for ; Mon, 1 Apr 2002 06:26:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from host213-122-67-83.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.67.83] helo=dan) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16s1pB-0002jf-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 01 Apr 2002 14:26:22 +0100 Message-ID: <000b01c1d980$f51c5300$53437ad5@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [h-cost] 17th century european eunuch costume query Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 14:13:26 +0100 Status: RO Hi everyone, I have been asked whether a eunuch in Europe the first half of the 17th century would have been dressed in a specific manner or whether it would simply be "normal" costume for the period/location. I'm not really sure where to start on this one; can anyone point me in the right direction? best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 1 12:14:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA18784 for ; Mon, 1 Apr 2002 12:14:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g31G8mU05922; Mon, 1 Apr 2002 09:08:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g31G8J021529; Mon, 1 Apr 2002 09:08:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g31G6v020860 for ; Mon, 1 Apr 2002 09:06:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.133.149.136] (pm4-136.eos.net [205.133.149.136]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02583 for ; Mon, 1 Apr 2002 11:06:51 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200203311902.g2VJ23006689@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] sewing advice (slightly OT) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 10:59:12 -0500 Status: RO Hello, friends! I need some advice dealing with fabric in a dress I'm making for my daughter. It will be her First Communion dress, and it is modern, though the bodice has a definite Baroque look (which I want to improve). In fact, I have changed nearly the entire pattern. I guess I just can't sew "normally" anymore. Which is the problem. I am so used to sewing with wool and linen that I am just stumped on the cotten/poly blend I'm using. I really need some hints for the bodice. So here's the scoop: I'm using a 2-piece Simplicity pattern (#). Because I usually sew to SAVE money, and I've been able to buy gorgeous designer Easter dresses at consignment stores ever year, I decided it would only be worth the investment if she could wear the dress at least twice. So I made the skirt and a sleeveless variation of the top for Easter. Of course, the skirt as called for wasn't wide enough around, so I changed the skirt pattern. And my daughter is an active, messy child and I used white eyelet, so the petticoat had to be separate so that the top would be washable, rather than attached as the pattern called for. So the skirt -- 3 yards of gathered eyelet -- and the petticoat -- 3 yards of pleated taffeta -- are nothing like the pattern called for. But it sure looks great. Now to the bodice. I used a print and eliminated the point of the bodice for a straight little top for her Easter dress. The pattern calls for lining it, but for using facings too. I hate facings, they are such a pain. So I lined it like a vest (eliminating all the raw edges) instead. But the fabric is so light, even with the lining (light too) that I had to iron interfacing on the finished inside to stabilize the buttons and buttonholes. This is no big deal, because the top is one she'll just wear with shorts from now on. The eyelet fabric I have for the First Communion top (which will have the pointed bodice and elbow-length sleeves with eyelet engagements) is just as thin as the skirt fabric. I am going to have to lengthen the bodice to compensate for her long-waisted figure and I want to lengthen the point so you can SEE it. What should I do to make this bodice stiff enough to look nice without making it uncomfortable? Should I interline it with something? Use a thick lining, maybe of linen, rather than the thin cotton I used on the other bodice? Will topstitching and/or interlining the bodice point make it stiff enough so that it doesn't curl up? I am already going to use corded tape on the bottom and neck seams, will that give it enough body to stay in place? I am just stumped. Obviously, I don't sew much with dress-weight cotton/poly. Any hints would be appreciated. Thanks -- Gail Finke P,S.: I am toying with the idea of puttling little white bows down the front for a sort of Baroque-ish, sort of 1840s-ish look. But I don't want to overdue it -- I'm trying for a simple, girlish look rather than all the fussy lace and ruffles. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 1 12:43:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA18930 for ; Mon, 1 Apr 2002 12:43:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g31Gc2U09281; Mon, 1 Apr 2002 09:38:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g31Gc0006256; Mon, 1 Apr 2002 09:38:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g31GaH005564 for ; Mon, 1 Apr 2002 09:36:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) id g31GcJj26394 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 1 Apr 2002 08:38:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200204011638.g31GcJj26394@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: [f-cost] OT: avoiding spam In-Reply-To: <005001c1d916$b620df00$0300a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> "from Penny Ladnier at Mar 31, 2002 07:46:50 pm" To: h-costume@indra.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL82 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 08:38:19 -0800 (PST) Status: RO No spyware here, I'm very careful. I just have a 'funny' email that gets enttered by other people into their forms, and thus I get their spam. Since I've had my email address for so long, I'm stubborn and unwilling to change it, so, I have to put up with the spam and try various techniques to fight it. Sadly, though, it's not uncommon for people with older email address [that are therefore in unprotected web archives, were used on usenet, or something] to get loads of spam all the time. Want to hear irony? my email address was used an example in an anti-spam mail configuration manual that was published ALL OVER the internet by a unix guru type who ought to have known better. .heather. alice@wonderland.com > Heather, > > Have you checked your computer to see if there is spyware on it? Has your > computer been running slow lately? > > Penny Ladnier > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > http://www.costumegallery.com > http://www.costumeclassroom.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Heather Meadows" > To: > Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2002 11:23 AM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: [f-cost] OT: avoiding spam > > > > I get close to 200 spams a day, frequently, AFTER my mail has gone through > > the filters for known IPs and domains of spammers, etc. I used to try > > to fight them at the root, but sadly it just takes way way too long. > > > > .heather. > > > > > > > Through my experince with those opt out lists is that most of them > > > are simply another way spammers vverify that your e-mail address > > > is valid. > > > > > > Something that worked very well in reducing the amount of spam I > > > get is by tracking down the source of the spam by going through all > > > of the headers then complaning to the administrator about the > > > spammer. Many times they will cancel the users account. Some > > > ISP's are spam friendly. Usually their entire IP range will be > > > blacklisted by a majority of the internet. > > > > > > After tracking down the offending server I will also go after any > > > websites they advertise in the spam. I will also go after the > > > "remove" e-mail account listed since this is used only to verify your > > > e-mail address is valid. If they use PayPal complaints will be sent > > > to PayPal. If they are using a merchant account I will complain to > > > the company hosting it. > > > > > > Essentailly if successful this usually puts the spammer out of > > > business. All of the spam I have seen is advertising some kind of > > > scam. By doing this I have reduced the amount I get from 3-4 a > > > day to at most 1 a week. Spammers don't like me. > > > > > > > Another way to get removed from some e-mail spam lists is to go to: > > > > > > > > www.the-dma.org > > > > > > > > This is the website for the Direct Marketing Association. Follow the > > > > links to the "opt-out" page - there you can put your e-mail address on > > > > what is essentially a "do not call" list. This is good for one year. > > > > When you set it up, you can indicate that you want to be reminded > > > > about renewing it after one year. This works the same for e-mail as > > > > the Mail Preference Service and Phone Preference Service do for those > > > > (also run by this organization). There are instructions for signing > > > > up for these to suppress mail and phone ads also, but you have to do > > > > those by postal mail. > > > > > > > > It won't get all of the spam, but it will cut it down some. > > > > > > > > Also see if your e-mail server has a spam suppressor - Earthlink's (of > > > > which radiks is a subsidiary) is called "Spaminator". It catches > > > > about 20-30 a week. You can go to the site and review what they've > > > > caught and delete it, or forward it to yourself if it was caught in > > > > error. > > > > > > > > Sandy (who works for a direct mail company) > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > h-costume mailing list > > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > --- > > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by plugit.com] > > > > > > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by plugit.com] > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 1 14:54:29 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19550 for ; Mon, 1 Apr 2002 14:54:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g31InKU26481; Mon, 1 Apr 2002 11:49:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g31In0U16428; Mon, 1 Apr 2002 11:49:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f204.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.204]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g31IlvU15841 for ; Mon, 1 Apr 2002 11:47:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 1 Apr 2002 10:46:38 -0800 Received: from 141.213.6.35 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 01 Apr 2002 18:46:37 GMT X-Originating-IP: [141.213.6.35] From: "Parsla Liepa" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: [f-cost] OT: avoiding spam Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Apr 2002 18:46:38.0324 (UTC) FILETIME=[8E4FAB40:01C1D9AD] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: pliepa@deepthought.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 13:46:37 -0500 Status: RO >I just have a 'funny' email that gets >enttered by other people into their forms, and thus I get their spam. I've heard various ways that people get around putting in their email address when it is "required", the most common is some variation of putting in webmaster@whatever_domain_they're_at.com, so that the spam gets sent right back to the site. I personally use null@null.com. I was using null.org for a while, but then I discovered that it actually did exist. Parsla _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 1 16:35:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA20028 for ; Mon, 1 Apr 2002 16:35:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g31KU1U07592; Mon, 1 Apr 2002 13:30:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g31KJ6U05844; Mon, 1 Apr 2002 13:19:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f196.pav2.hotmail.com [64.4.37.196]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g31KH8U04444; Mon, 1 Apr 2002 13:17:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 1 Apr 2002 12:17:02 -0800 Received: from 216.26.62.222 by pv2fd.pav2.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 01 Apr 2002 20:17:02 GMT X-Originating-IP: [216.26.62.222] From: "Jennifer Sena" To: f-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com Cc: 19cWoman@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Apr 2002 20:17:03.0004 (UTC) FILETIME=[2FAC25C0:01C1D9BA] Subject: [h-cost] Spanish sewing books (Singer) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 12:17:02 -0800 Status: RO Hi All, I'm sorry for the cross posting, but I got these books yesterday and want to make sure they find a good home where they will be USED. I have; set 1--Costura Moderna No. 1, Technicas y equipo novedosos Detalles de originalidad set2--same as above plus Ropa para Ninos set 3--same first three plus Cuidado y Renovacion de la Ropa Costura para el Hogar I don't read Spanish, but from the pictures it looks like tons of info on embellishing, dying, trims, and more. I have a full set in english of an earlier edition and I love them(these are mine). The spanish books just need to be used by somebody instead of lost in the back of a garage. If you know of anyone who would like them please email me off list and we can set up shipping info. I got them for free and will pass them on that way. Library rate postage is all I ask in return. If you can't use them, please pass the post on to others who might. I hate to see a great book go to waste. ;) Jennifer distantdesigns@hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 1 16:46:15 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA20104 for ; Mon, 1 Apr 2002 16:46:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g31KYBU08379; Mon, 1 Apr 2002 13:34:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g31KY1U15689; Mon, 1 Apr 2002 13:34:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (oe50.pav1.hotmail.com [64.4.30.22]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g31KXTU15370 for ; Mon, 1 Apr 2002 13:33:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 1 Apr 2002 12:33:24 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [12.13.135.195] From: "Heather McCafferty 2" To: References: <200204011904.g31J4JU24872@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Apr 2002 20:33:24.0309 (UTC) FILETIME=[78936850:01C1D9BC] Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume digest, Vol 1 #836 - 9 msgs Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 14:47:21 -0600 Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- | Message: 6 | From: "Stevie Gamble" | To: | Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 14:13:26 +0100 | Subject: [h-cost] 17th century european eunuch costume query | Reply-To: h-costume@mail.indra.com | | Hi everyone, | I have been asked whether a eunuch in Europe the first half of the | 17th century would have been dressed in a specific manner or whether | it would simply be "normal" costume for the period/location. I'm not | really sure where to start on this one; can anyone point me in the | right direction? | best wishes | Stevie Stevie - With regards to what? For example, a castrato (cut singers in Italy) would wear elaborate and outlandish costumes in performances of Baroque opera (See, _Euridice_, and _L'Incoronazion di Poppea_, by Monteverdi). However, outside of the performance arts, they functioned as normal men with a disfigurement, though with special privileges granted them for their performance arts, at least in the circles in which they moved, as rather pampered individuals. This is, of course, accounting for their attempting to live a mainstream life and not being eccentric and dressing in women's clothes or the like. Castration was also a form of punishment for misbehaving slaves, especially black slaves. They would continue to try dress normally as well because they couldn't necessarily afford tailored clothing and because of their societal demands on the clothing of male slaves, as well as sumptuary laws, unless their owners were funny in the head and made them dress differently. For an example, though a bit glamorized and out of your period, of how one of the castrati lived in their heyday, watch the movie _Farinelli_ - it's not precise, but you'll get the idea. (Note: the French *hated* to have castrato in their operas - it was unpopular and ridiculed as an Italianate perversity, especially once Lully came to power in the music scene in France. Actually, come to think of it, the French liked opera, but came to hate anything Italianate in it, so they made their own "style.") I'm afraid that I don't know of any movies or documentaries that discuss the fate of castrated male slaves. Margaret Northwode "Douce et innocent à l'extérieur, mauvaise et croquante à l'intérieur." _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 1 17:37:15 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA20781 for ; Mon, 1 Apr 2002 17:37:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g31LW2U19459; Mon, 1 Apr 2002 14:32:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g31LW0U22914; Mon, 1 Apr 2002 14:32:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from protactinium (protactinium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.176]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g31LVrU22848 for ; Mon, 1 Apr 2002 14:31:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from host213-122-79-150.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.79.150] helo=dan) by protactinium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16s9P4-0007U0-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 01 Apr 2002 22:31:51 +0100 Message-ID: <001401c1d9c4$c8ffa8a0$964f7ad5@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: References: <200204011904.g31J4JU24872@net.indra.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume digest, Vol 1 #836 - 9 msgs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 22:32:47 +0100 Status: RO Margaret wrote: a very helpful reply to my query on the dress of male eunuchs of the first half of the 17th century; my thanks. You've not only given me a place to start but also speeded me down the road... best wishes Stevie --------------------------- With regards to what? For example, a castrato (cut singers in Italy) would wear elaborate and outlandish costumes in performances of Baroque opera (See, _Euridice_, and _L'Incoronazion di Poppea_, by Monteverdi). However, outside of the performance arts, they functioned as normal men with a disfigurement, though with special privileges granted them for their performance arts, at least in the circles in which they moved, as rather pampered individuals. This is, of course, accounting for their attempting to live a mainstream life and not being eccentric and dressing in women's clothes or the like. Castration was also a form of punishment for misbehaving slaves, especially black slaves. They would continue to try dress normally as well because they couldn't necessarily afford tailored clothing and because of their societal demands on the clothing of male slaves, as well as sumptuary laws, unless their owners were funny in the head and made them dress differently. For an example, though a bit glamorized and out of your period, of how one of the castrati lived in their heyday, watch the movie _Farinelli_ - it's not precise, but you'll get the idea. (Note: the French *hated* to have castrato in their operas - it was unpopular and ridiculed as an Italianate perversity, especially once Lully came to power in the music scene in France. Actually, come to think of it, the French liked opera, but came to hate anything Italianate in it, so they made their own "style.") I'm afraid that I don't know of any movies or documentaries that discuss the fate of castrated male slaves. Margaret Northwode "Douce et innocent à l'extérieur, mauvaise et croquante à l'intérieur." _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 1 22:17:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA22042 for ; Mon, 1 Apr 2002 22:17:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g322C5U14379; Mon, 1 Apr 2002 19:12:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g322C1U00975; Mon, 1 Apr 2002 19:12:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g322BbU00857 for ; Mon, 1 Apr 2002 19:11:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m214.in-tch.com [216.166.191.214]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g321xLj12783 for ; Mon, 1 Apr 2002 18:59:21 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3CA91482.4F12037@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] sewing advice (slightly OT) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 19:16:34 -0700 Status: RO I'd interline it, with an interfacing designed for lighter-weight fabrics. Maybe a couple of layers? And I'd keep the lining relatively light, too. If you add anything too heavy, it might end up looking really funky, since you'd be fighting the natural tendencies of the fabric. If you still need additional body, perhaps lightly starching it? And if the point curls up or is otherwise unsatisfactory, perhaps putting in some featherweight boning? (Along the same kinds of lines you'd do for an adult pattern, but without the -uh- shaping and lifting properties that she doesn't need.) And if she's messy (lord knows, I was a messay kid, too, and make a pretty messy adult ), think about scotch-guarding the hem areas (after testing to see if it's noticeable, of course)..... Oh, and don't forget to post pictures when you're done. I'm sure she'll look adorable.... --Sue (no daughters, but I used to sew for my much, much younger sister) Gail & Scott Finke wrote: > > Hello, friends! I need some advice dealing with fabric in a dress I'm making > for my daughter. > The eyelet fabric I have for the First Communion top (which will have the > pointed bodice and elbow-length sleeves with eyelet engagements) is just as > thin as the skirt fabric. I am going to have to lengthen the bodice to > compensate for her long-waisted figure and I want to lengthen the point so > you can SEE it. What should I do to make this bodice stiff enough to look > nice without making it uncomfortable? Should I interline it with something? > Use a thick lining, maybe of linen, rather than the thin cotton I used on > the other bodice? Will topstitching and/or interlining the bodice point make > it stiff enough so that it doesn't curl up? I am already going to use corded > tape on the bottom and neck seams, will that give it enough body to stay in > place? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 1 23:04:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA22183 for ; Mon, 1 Apr 2002 23:04:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g322x3U16724; Mon, 1 Apr 2002 19:59:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g322x1U14193; Mon, 1 Apr 2002 19:59:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g322w6U13941 for ; Mon, 1 Apr 2002 19:58:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from sdn-ap-004watacop0063.dialsprint.net ([63.187.224.63] helo=laptop) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16sEUm-0000nb-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 01 Apr 2002 18:58:05 -0800 From: "Saragrace knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] 17th century european eunuch costume query Organization: PII Message-ID: <000001c1d9f1$32b73de0$3fe0bb3f@laptop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <000b01c1d980$f51c5300$53437ad5@dan> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 19:50:48 -0700 Status: RO Not an expert in this area in the least, but just wondering what you mean by a eunuch. A castrati probably wouldn't dress anymore differently than any other person from an opera cast (as extreme as they might be), but a eunuch guarding a harem (probably not in Europe though??) might have a particular "uniform"-but would it be radically different from another man's garb from that time and place? Are there other types of eunuchs as a group that I am not aware of? **-----Original Message----- **From: h-costume-admin@indra.com **[mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of Stevie Gamble **Sent: Monday, April 01, 2002 6:13 AM **To: h-costume@indra.com **Subject: [h-cost] 17th century european eunuch costume query ** ** **Hi everyone, **I have been asked whether a eunuch in Europe the first half **of the 17th century would have been dressed in a specific **manner or whether it would simply be "normal" costume for the ** period/location. I'm not really sure where to start on this **one; can anyone point me in the right direction? best wishes Stevie ** **_______________________________________________ **h-costume mailing list **h-costume@mail.indra.com **http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 2 10:10:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA19964 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 10:10:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g32E5MU10759; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 07:05:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g32E2mU02327; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 07:03:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r09.mx.aol.com (imo-r09.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.105]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g32DvgU01429 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 06:57:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from Azelana@aol.com by imo-r09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 7.ea.254d34a0 (18707) for ; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 08:56:52 -0500 (EST) From: Azelana@aol.com Message-ID: To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 124 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Oscars, let's dish! Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 08:56:52 EST Status: RO << The woman who won for Best Supporting actress, I forget her name, could use > a sandwich while you're up. And tell her, if you haven't got anything to > hold up a strapless dress other than the bones in your chest, consider a > different cut, please. > This was Jennifer Connelly-- anyone else remember her in "Labyrinth"? :) >> It's strange, too, because in "The Rocketeer" she wore a white evening dress that proved she CAN have cleavage! --Gillian _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 2 10:47:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA20145 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 10:47:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g32EgVU13241; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 07:42:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g32EgBr01970; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 07:42:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r10.mx.aol.com (imo-r10.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.106]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g32ESGU06962 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 07:29:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from Azelana@aol.com by imo-r10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 7.19d.874df (18707) for ; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 09:26:23 -0500 (EST) From: Azelana@aol.com Message-ID: <19d.874df.29db198f@aol.com> To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 124 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Nicole's washed-out look Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 09:26:23 EST Status: RO In a message dated 3/27/02 5:39:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, h-costume-request@indra.com writes: << And before I stop moaning - why would anyone with fabulous pale skin like Nicole ever wear pale colours? I am still breathless with adoration from seeing Moulin Rouge last week (for the first time - I'm just slow). Wear black, dear girl! >> That's me! White skin, so black clothes. Wish I'd discovered the formula back in high school... --Gillian the goth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 2 10:50:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA20165 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 10:50:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g32Ei3U13395; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 07:44:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g32Ei1r02710; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 07:44:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m10.mx.aol.com (imo-m10.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.165]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g32EfVr01703 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 07:41:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from Azelana@aol.com by imo-m10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.16.1cd2a83a (18707) for ; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 09:41:24 -0500 (EST) From: Azelana@aol.com Message-ID: <16.1cd2a83a.29db1d13@aol.com> To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 124 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Oscars: desinger dresses that don't fit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 09:41:23 EST Status: RO << As far as ill-fitting Oscar dresses go, I think it is you get dress free if you fit the sample size the designer provides, thus the further pressure to be the sample size or smaller. I think Halle Berry had her dress custom-made or is the perfect designer sample size everywhere. Frankly, I'm all for bringing back the 1870's or 1880's bustle sometimes--the question being: Does my butt look big enough? Cindy Abel >> They mentioned dresses being "provided" at the Golden Globes. I've no idea if it's free, but it did seem many actresses contract to wear a dress to an event to publicize it for the designer. Often, those actresses do not even see the dress until the day of the event. I think this is a bad practice, because if the dress doesn't fit properly, the designer only gets bad publicity and the actress gets a good thrashing from Joan Rivers. As for Halle's awesome dress -- totally something I'd wear -- I'm wondering if she wasn't the only one who NEVER expected her to win? Designers try to put their latest creations on the Oscar "sure picks", but no African American woman had ever won Best Actress before. Perhaps no designer backed her, so she got to wear her own choice of gown. (Totally speculating here.) I only say this because her dress was probably the best fit I saw all evening. As a seamstress, I'm particularly sensitive about fit, and I think designers should pay more attention to that fashion factor too. LOL at the bustle comment, because I have a late Elizabethan persona in the SCA... (bum roll + cartridge pleating + farthingale = BIG bum!) --Gillian _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 2 10:51:29 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA20169 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 10:51:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g32EiBU13415; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 07:44:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g32Ei3r02749; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 07:44:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r04.mx.aol.com (imo-r04.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.100]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g32Egir02173 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 07:42:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from Azelana@aol.com by imo-r04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 7.19b.88760 (18707) for ; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 09:42:32 -0500 (EST) From: Azelana@aol.com Message-ID: <19b.88760.29db1d58@aol.com> To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 124 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Oscars: desinger dresses that don't fit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 09:42:32 EST Status: RO << As far as ill-fitting Oscar dresses go, I think it is you get dress free if you fit the sample size the designer provides, thus the further pressure to be the sample size or smaller. I think Halle Berry had her dress custom-made or is the perfect designer sample size everywhere. Frankly, I'm all for bringing back the 1870's or 1880's bustle sometimes--the question being: Does my butt look big enough? Cindy Abel >> They mentioned dresses being "provided" at the Golden Globes. I've no idea if it's free, but it did seem many actresses contract to wear a dress to an event to publicize it for the designer. Often, those actresses do not even see the dress until the day of the event. I think this is a bad practice, because if the dress doesn't fit properly, the designer only gets bad publicity and the actress gets a good thrashing from Joan Rivers. As for Halle's awesome dress -- totally something I'd wear -- I'm wondering if she wasn't the only one who NEVER expected her to win? Designers try to put their latest creations on the Oscar "sure picks", but no African American woman had ever won Best Actress before. Perhaps no designer backed her, so she got to wear her own choice of gown. (Totally speculating here.) I only say this because her dress was probably the best fit I saw all evening. As a seamstress, I'm particularly sensitive about fit, and I think designers should pay more attention to that fashion factor too. LOL at the bustle comment, because I have a late Elizabethan persona in the SCA... (bum roll + cartridge pleating + farthingale = BIG bum!) --Gillian _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 2 11:02:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA20218 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 11:02:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g32Ew1U14541; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 07:58:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g32Ew0r08344; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 07:58:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m04.mx.aol.com (imo-m04.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.7]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g32Ev3r07980 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 07:57:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from Azelana@aol.com by imo-m04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 7.70.1a7a2dbe (18707) for ; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 09:56:54 -0500 (EST) From: Azelana@aol.com Message-ID: <70.1a7a2dbe.29db20b5@aol.com> To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 124 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Museum Replicas Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 09:56:53 EST Status: RO << I'd be wary of anything from a company that has "Bram Stoker's Dracula" in an "Our Favorite Movies" category! Bleck!!! >> Their boots are none too comfortable, I'm told. I know very many fantasy LARPers that have bought them and said so. As for their clothing, if you are a size XS like me then don't bother. Their idea of Small is more like what sells as a Medium in retail stores. Now, on swords and weapons, they have my highest regard. As a swordswoman, I would not use any sword in live steel combat that did not come from them with their combat-ready guarantee. Most of their blades are by Windlass Steelcrafts, and still Museum Rep insists on battle-testing the weapons on some very rough materials. I went to their showroom in GA and bought a mace for cheap that was labeled "used". The woman explained that it was the prototype and had been used to test its sturdiness before they added it to their catalog. She then showed me the cast iron stove it had cracked all the way through! And not a scratch on the mace, BTW. --Gillian, seamstress AND swordswoman _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 2 11:21:00 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA20266 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 11:20:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g32FG3U15925; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 08:16:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g32FG1r15539; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 08:16:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m10.mx.aol.com (imo-m10.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.165]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g32FFDr15118 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 08:15:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from Azelana@aol.com by imo-m10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 7.43.934bd3f (18707) for ; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 10:15:00 -0500 (EST) From: Azelana@aol.com Message-ID: <43.934bd3f.29db24f3@aol.com> To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 124 Subject: [h-cost] Re: sample sizes changed? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 10:14:59 EST Status: RO << Are sample sizes smaller these days? Back in the 1970s, showroom samples were an 8, and most actresses tend to be 2 and 4.>> Ah! Good question! And although 1970's is not my historical specialty, I can answer this one. The answer is, if you check the measurements of a size 8 from 1970 and a size 2 from 1990 onward, you'll find they are exactly the same! I found this out when it came time for my Junior Prom. My mother insisted she had an old evening dress in size 9/10 that would fit me perfectly, and I was like, "Mom, are you nuts?! I'm a 3/4. You could fit 2 of me in a 9/10!" But when I tried it on, it fit exactly right-- and was exactly the style I'd been shopping for in the mall for 6 weeks. I was confused, so I tried on all her old stuff. Then I tried on new stuff with lower size numbers like 7. The modern 7's were way too big, but the old 9/10's fit. If you buy commercial patterns nowadays, you'll notice that your pattern size is a much higher number than the size you wear in a store. That's because the pattern companies still use the 1970 scale -- almost. I'm a pattern size 12. So the next qustion would be: Why the change? The answer seems to be: PSYCHOLOGY AND MARKETING. Women feel more confident with a lower number -- makes them feel skinny -- so they're more likely to buy the dress in the retail store if they can say "I'm a size 6!" rather than (back in 1970) "Ugh! I'm a size twelve?!" The whole thing's very silly -- but important to know if you like to buy vintage clothes! --Gillian _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 2 12:00:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA20396 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 12:00:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g32Ft9U19077; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 08:55:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g32Ft3r03471; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 08:55:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.62]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g32Fs1r02952 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 08:54:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from 66-44-7-52.s1830.apx1.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com ([66.44.7.52] helo=oldwaylane.net) by smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #10) id 16sQbg-0003qR-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 02 Apr 2002 10:54:00 -0500 Message-ID: <3CA9D6E0.8010304@oldwaylane.net> From: Judy Mitchell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:0.9.3) Gecko/20010801 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Museum Replicas References: <70.1a7a2dbe.29db20b5@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: judymitch@oldwaylane.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 11:05:52 -0500 Status: RO Azelana@aol.com wrote: > Now, on swords and weapons, they have my highest regard. As a swordswoman, I > would not use any sword in live steel combat that did not come from them with > their combat-ready guarantee. I dunno, I know a guy who bought one from them with their guarantee and fought with it - and had to send it back three times for replacement when the swords kept breaking! Finally he gave up fighting with it. -Judy Mitchell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 2 12:06:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA20421 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 12:06:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g32G14U19723; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 09:01:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g32G11r06624; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 09:01:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g32G0Tr06298 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 09:00:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from Azelana@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 7.3b.247104df (18707) for ; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 11:00:15 -0500 (EST) From: Azelana@aol.com Message-ID: <3b.247104df.29db2f8e@aol.com> To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 124 Subject: [h-cost] Re: sewing advice Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 11:00:14 EST Status: RO << The pattern calls for lining it, but for using facings too. I hate facings, they are such a pain. So I lined it like a vest (eliminating all the raw edges) instead. But the fabric is so light, even with the lining (light too) that I had to iron interfacing on the finished inside to stabilize the buttons and buttonholes. >> To call for both lining AND facings is a bit unusual, but I can hazzard a guess. I'll bet the directions in the pattern tell you to use a fusible interfacing on the facings, right? If so, the facings are probably positioned under where the buttons and buttonholes will be. Hence, the interfacing on the facing would reinforce your buttons. Since you dislike facings AND you want to make the bodice point stiff, I'd recommend ironing a fusible interfacing to the entire bodice piece before you sew, then lining the bodice as you did before. It won't be too stiff to be comfortable, but should keep the point from curling. Just don't lengthen the point too much; long points require boning. --Gillian _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 2 13:48:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA20926 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 13:48:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g32Hf5U00825; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 10:41:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g32Hf1r02566; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 10:41:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from lakemtao02.cox.net (lakemtao02.cox.net [68.1.17.243]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g32Hebr02303 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 10:40:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from VMAAHQ ([68.10.161.53]) by lakemtao02.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with ESMTP id <20020402174032.TEGQ18443.lakemtao02.cox.net@VMAAHQ> for ; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 12:40:32 -0500 From: "Linda Rice" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Museum Replicas Message-ID: <000001c1da6d$d81cc8a0$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3CA9D6E0.8010304@oldwaylane.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 12:42:59 -0500 Status: RO Yup, I agree with Judy. Our group fights "live steel", and won't use MR stuff, ever. One guy did buy the sword they sell as being specifically made for heavy use, and he says that sword has the most dull feel and sound of any of the swords we use. He doesn't like it, and won't use it very often. For the best usable swords for the money, with a guarantee, try a Starfire. They do break if you're really mean to them, but the customer service is excellent. We just got 2 swords from a company in Czechoslovakia, and they are _sweet_! It took a while to get them in, but was well worth it. And on a costume note, I totally agree with the assessment that their clothes are just about the worst thing going, and are neck-and-neck with Chivalry Sports for the Don't Go There award. Linda Azelana@aol.com wrote: > Now, on swords and weapons, they have my highest regard. As a swordswoman, I > would not use any sword in live steel combat that did not come from them with their combat-ready guarantee. On Behalf Of Judy Mitchell Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Museum Replicas I dunno, I know a guy who bought one from them with their guarantee and fought with it - and had to send it back three times for replacement when the swords kept breaking! Finally he gave up fighting with it. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 2 16:30:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA21911 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 16:30:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g32KP3U19168; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 13:25:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g32KP0r14115; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 13:25:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (smtp10.atl.mindspring.net [207.69.200.246]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g32KO8r13672 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 13:24:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from user-2ivfogk.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.226.20] helo=[199.174.222.48]) by smtp10.atl.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16sUp5-00012P-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 02 Apr 2002 15:24:07 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <16.1cd2a83a.29db1d13@aol.com> References: <16.1cd2a83a.29db1d13@aol.com> To: h-costume@indra.com From: Chris Laning Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] Bum rolls (WAS: Re: Oscars) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 11:30:36 -0800 Status: RO At 9:41 AM -0500 4/2/02, Azelana@aol.com wrote: >Cindy Abel wrote: >>Frankly, I'm all for bringing back the 1870's or 1880's bustle >>sometimes -- the question being: Does my butt look big enough? > >LOL at the bustle comment, because I have a late Elizabethan persona in the >SCA... (bum roll + cartridge pleating + farthingale = BIG bum!) I'm told that in the 16th century, big hips were considered sexy and desireable -- hence the clothing that made you look that way whether you were or not. Conveniently, Elizabethan clothing also allows nicely for those of us who already have natural... errr... padding in that area -- you just put more or less stuffing and stiffening into your skirts, depending on how much you "need" for the right look. (I use a rather _small_ bumroll myself...) -- ____________________________________________________________ O Christian Ashley, gentlewoman to Lady Stafford | Chris Laning + Guild of St. George, Northern California ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 2 17:02:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA22044 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 17:02:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g32Kv3U22511; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 13:57:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g32Kv1r03257; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 13:57:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g32KuVr02971 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 13:56:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.127.194]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GTY00137KU581@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 02 Apr 2002 12:56:30 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bum rolls (WAS: Re: Oscars) In-reply-to: X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020402125200.04fb6460@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <16.1cd2a83a.29db1d13@aol.com> <16.1cd2a83a.29db1d13@aol.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 12:56:22 -0800 Status: RO >>>Frankly, I'm all for bringing back the 1870's or 1880's bustle sometimes >>>-- the question being: Does my butt look big enough? >> >>LOL at the bustle comment, because I have a late Elizabethan persona in the >>SCA... (bum roll + cartridge pleating + farthingale = BIG bum!) > >I'm told that in the 16th century, big hips were considered sexy and >desireable -- hence the clothing that made you look that way whether you >were or not. Large hips seem to be fashionable in most tiny-waist periods. I've just been doing a lot of 1890's research, and even not counting the tiny waists shown in photographs, their hips are way big. (Put your finger over the waist to see what I mean.) But Victorian/Edwardian is the period of 'bust improvers', and other remedial understructure. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 2 18:00:00 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA22233 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 17:59:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g32Lt5U28400; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 14:55:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g32Lt1r06670; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 14:55:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from broadviewnet.net (scctelecom.com [64.115.0.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g32Lslr06482 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 14:54:47 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 25945 invoked from network); 2 Apr 2002 21:54:45 -0000 Received: from s11.dial1.pro.nac.net (HELO lola.broadviewnet.net) (209.123.234.61) by mail.broadviewnet.net with SMTP; 2 Apr 2002 21:54:45 -0000 Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.0.20020402165250.009f2b70@mail.broadviewnet.net> X-Sender: windsong@mail.broadviewnet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Victoria Wickens In-Reply-To: <200204021744.g32Hijr05088@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_68285971==_.ALT" Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume digest, Vol 1 #837 - 14 msgs Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 16:57:05 -0500 Status: RO --=====================_68285971==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 10:44 AM 4/2/02 -0700, you wrote: >For the best usable swords for the money, with a guarantee, try a >Starfire. They do break if you're really mean to them, but the customer >service is excellent. I second this. I went to the forge, which is about 3 hours away form my house a few years ago and I got to play with some of their goodies *grin* I walked out with a pair of short swords and they were worth every penny (I think I paid about $125 apiece). I used them heavily for years until I "lost" them in a move *sigh*. Victoria Wickens Lady Victoria's Castle Closet http://68.55.139.42/~lvcc/index2.html Gallery: http://68.55.139.42/~lvcc/castle-creations/ --=====================_68285971==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 10:44 AM 4/2/02 -0700, you wrote:
For the best usable swords for the money, with a guarantee, try a
Starfire. They do break if you're really mean to them, but the customer
service is excellent.

I second this.  I went to the forge, which is about 3 hours away form my house a few years ago and I got to play with some of their goodies *grin*  I walked out with a pair of short swords and they were worth every penny (I think I paid about $125 apiece). I used them heavily for years until I "lost" them in a move *sigh*.

Victoria Wickens
Lady Victoria's Castle Closet
http://68.55.139.42/~lvcc/index2.html
Gallery: http://68.55.139.42/~lvcc/castle-creations/

 --=====================_68285971==_.ALT-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 3 00:24:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA23620 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 00:24:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g334J6U27430; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 21:19:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g334J0r28291; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 21:19:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail3.aracnet.com (mail3.aracnet.com [216.99.193.38]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g334HLr27737 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 21:17:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) by mail3.aracnet.com (8.12.2/8.12.1) with ESMTP id g334HaRm010741 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 20:17:37 -0800 From: "Wanda Pease" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Bum rolls (WAS: Re: Oscars) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 20:20:53 -0800 Status: RO My remark, along with a suitably wide-eyed innocent stare is "bum roll? What bum roll?" (said with no seriousness at all) Regina --- Conveniently, Elizabethan clothing also allows nicely for those of us who already have natural... errr... padding in that area -- you just put more or less stuffing and stiffening into your skirts, depending on how much you "need" for the right look. (I use a rather _small_ bumroll myself...) -- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 3 01:39:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA23803 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 01:39:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g335Z3U01538; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 22:35:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g335Z1r20156; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 22:35:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from pimout4-int.prodigy.net (pimout4-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.103]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g335YWr20074 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 22:34:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from flash.net (A020-0245.HSTN.splitrock.net [209.253.12.245]) by pimout4-int.prodigy.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g335YV6133560 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 00:34:31 -0500 Message-ID: <3CAA9458.1A505615@flash.net> From: Charlene Charette X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: [f-cost] OT: avoiding spam References: <3CA63E69.29681.1D189AF@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 23:34:16 -0600 Status: RO Blue Dragon wrote: > Essentailly if successful this usually puts the spammer out of > business. All of the spam I have seen is advertising some kind of > scam. By doing this I have reduced the amount I get from 3-4 a > day to at most 1 a week. Spammers don't like me. If you're getting 3-4 spam messages a day then you have the time to do all that tracking and bothering. I recently tracked the spam I received over a three-week period -- over 700. That averages to approximately 30 messages a day. I just don't have the time to write nasties to that many ISPs. --Charlene -- When aiming for the common denominator, be prepared for the occasional division by zero. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 3 01:48:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA23828 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 01:48:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g335i2U01883; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 22:44:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g335i1r22417; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 22:44:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g335hLr22239 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 22:43:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.127.194]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GTZ00F0D988TJ@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 02 Apr 2002 21:43:20 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: [h-cost] Bum rolls (WAS: Re: Oscars) In-reply-to: X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020402214137.05098570@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 21:43:12 -0800 Status: RO >My remark, along with a suitably wide-eyed innocent stare is "bum roll? >What bum roll?" (said with no seriousness at all) It's a roll of padding, anywhere from the size of a large sausage to the size of an inner tube (car tires/tyres used to have them), worn around your 'bum' (backside), to make your Elizabethan skirt stick out in a large-hips sort of way. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 3 04:59:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA20081 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 04:59:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g338t3U08486; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 01:55:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g338t1r08785; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 01:55:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com (wsip66-210-221-206.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.221.206]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g338s3r08506 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 01:54:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from cc261386a [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A343BE01C4; Wed, 03 Apr 2002 02:54:27 -0600 Message-ID: <009401c1daec$fd8d08a0$0300a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <16.1cd2a83a.29db1d13@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Oscars X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 03:53:13 -0500 Status: RO In most cases the stars jewelry and gowns are loaned to them for the awards programs. That's why they mention who the designers are. There was a big article in April 1998 McCall's magazine about it. The stars are referred to as "walking billboards." >From that article is where I got the idea to be a walking billboard to go to my first ball. You can read about it at my Cyber Cinderella story, http://www.costumegallery.com/Cyber/Cindy.htm A designer loaned me a $10,000 dress to wear to the Ball. The second ball, I wore a 1959 debutante ball gown. The search is on for my gown to wear to the next ball in August. This week's People magazine has really nice photos of the Oscar gowns. I just picked up the issue today. There is a special section for the vintage gowns. You can see a nice photo of the $27 million necklace. LOL!!! They touched up the photo of Gwynth's gown. My husband pointed that one out to me. The best photo of the gowns was Renee's... very beautiful train. Kate W. also looked lovely. Back to the sick bed.... my whole family has the flu now. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by plugit.com] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 3 05:34:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA20174 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 05:34:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g339T2U09950; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 02:29:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g339T0r16014; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 02:29:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com (wsip66-210-221-206.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.221.206]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g339Swr15998 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 02:28:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from cc261386a [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id AB6C3E023E; Wed, 03 Apr 2002 03:29:16 -0600 Message-ID: <00ac01c1daf1$db239400$0300a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <43.934bd3f.29db24f3@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: sample sizes changed? X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 04:27:56 -0500 Status: RO I modeled in the mid-late 70s and my size was 10/12. The other girls who modeled with me wore the same sizes. Don't think models have small feet either. Size 10 then. Most people think I wear a size 4 dress... I am just petite built, but I have size 38 hips and am 5' 10" to 5" 11". I am not thick or round. I'm wide and narrow. Now I wear a size 12 shoe and people just can't believe my feet are really that big... its all an illusion folks. My youngest sister made the modeling/beauty pageant rounds in the late 70s/early 80s. She still does some modeling today as an almost 40 y.o. She is 6 ft. She has a larger frame than I do. She wears a 12/14 and is in high demand for jobs today. And I would like to add that my sister does not model in the large size category. She also wears a size 12 shoe. My sister has worked a lot with the Miss America pageant and Pageanty magazine as a dresser and makeup artist. This business is suck it in, tape it in, create the illusion. A lot of photos in magazines are touched up so much, it is unreal to believe these are the same people. When I first worked with the Princess Diana dresses, I thought she was going to be a short petite woman. I held up her dress and said... she was the same size that I am. Guess what size? ten! Comparing her photos over the years after she had her children she got bigger in the bust. That was the major difference in the body of her clothing. In her photos, the main time you notice that she is super thin is when she was having eating disorders. How can you tell??? By her face, not her clothing. You all know by working with costumes of various periods, you can hide many things by focusing on this or that part of the body. You can hide any imperfection by playing up a great feature. That's why I love working as a dresser. It is mastering illusion through dress, makeup, and hairstyles. That's my two cents... I am really going to bed now. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by plugit.com] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 3 06:48:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA20442 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 06:48:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g33Ai3U11758; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 03:44:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g33Ai1r16717; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 03:44:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g33AgLr16411 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 03:42:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KG4JAK48F400X78U@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 03 Apr 2002 11:44:53 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk ([158.94.56.3]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KG4JAH5A6I0106OA@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 03 Apr 2002 11:43:31 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 03 Apr 2002 11:40:24 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 03 Apr 2002 11:39:38 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.68) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Wed, 03 Apr 2002 11:39:30 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Rocky Horror (WAS: Moulin Rouge.) In-reply-to: <200203291241.g2TCfF013302@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <865BEE26FE7@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 11:39:30 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > Have you ever _seen_ the original final scenes for Rocky Horror > Picture Show? Talk about dire and depressing... There are different ones from Frank and Rocky beong killed and Brad, Janet and Dr Scott being left among the wreckage when the house takes off for Transexual Transilvania? News to me.... And those would have been dire and depressing too if the whole film (and the stage-show for that matter) hadn't been a stonking good comedy with well performed original songs, dance numbers and a funny script. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 3 06:53:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA20473 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 06:53:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g33An2U11889; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 03:49:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g33An0r17757; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 03:49:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g33AmNr17635 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 03:48:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KG4JJKNP2O00L4V7@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 03 Apr 2002 11:50:49 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk ([158.94.56.3]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KG4JJFACVS012VNW@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 03 Apr 2002 11:50:42 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 03 Apr 2002 11:47:35 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 03 Apr 2002 11:46:42 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.68) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Wed, 03 Apr 2002 11:46:34 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] "ose" and Filk, (WAS: Moulin Rouge.) In-reply-to: <200203291241.g2TCfF013302@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <865DD06287D@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 11:46:34 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > >what is 'ose? > > It's a Filk term, from morose, as in 'ose and morose. > > (yeah, yeah, what's Filk?') > > Filk is like what Alan Sheman and Weird Al Jankovich do to ordinary > songs. Nicelt put, Kayta, not that the likes of you and I would be *in any way* connected with the Filk scene or filkers.... Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 3 10:15:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA21467 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 10:15:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g33EACU20296; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 07:10:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g33EA5r06207; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 07:10:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from web21411.mail.yahoo.com (web21411.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.232.80]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g33E9pr06131 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 07:09:54 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20020403140944.45716.qmail@web21411.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [62.252.32.4] by web21411.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 03 Apr 2002 15:09:44 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: [f-cost] OT: avoiding spam To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <3CAA9458.1A505615@flash.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 15:09:44 +0100 (BST) Status: RO Does anyone have any experience using spamcop? Rachel --- Charlene Charette wrote: > Blue Dragon wrote: > > > Essentailly if successful this usually puts the spammer out of > > business. All of the spam I have seen is advertising some kind of > > scam. By doing this I have reduced the amount I get from 3-4 a > > day to at most 1 a week. Spammers don't like me. > > If you're getting 3-4 spam messages a day then you have the time to do > all that tracking and bothering. I recently tracked the spam I received > over a three-week period -- over 700. That averages to approximately 30 > messages a day. I just don't have the time to write nasties to that > many ISPs. > > --Charlene > > -- > When aiming for the common denominator, be prepared for the occasional > division by zero. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 3 11:34:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA21739 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 11:34:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g33FSLU25908; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 08:28:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g33FS1l02519; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 08:28:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m03.mx.aol.com (imo-m03.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.6]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g33FPJl00857 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 08:25:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from LLWatts@aol.com by imo-m03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.62.1d75281c (30963) for ; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 10:25:06 -0500 (EST) From: LLWatts@aol.com Message-ID: <62.1d75281c.29dc78d1@aol.com> Subject: [h-cost] Re: Museum Replicas To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 118 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 10:25:05 EST Status: RO > Their boots are none too comfortable, I'm told. I know very many fantasy > LARPers that have bought them and said so. > > As for their clothing, if you are a size XS like me then don't bother. Their > idea of Small is more like what sells as a Medium in retail stores. I got two sets of tights from them that actually fit, but then the tights were the only things in the catalog (as of a couple years ago) that had an actual size chart. The ankle boots I bought at the same time for gaming/SF con wear had to be returned for a size I could actually squeeze my feet into, and I followed their size-ordering instructions exactly. (I wear men's sneakers often, since white shoes aren't very practical for me and that's the only color most American shoe stores get women's sneakers in -- so I knew exactly what my shoe size on the men's scale is. My then-seven year old nephew probably could have worn what they sent ....) Leah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 3 13:06:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA22336 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 13:06:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g33GjQU04051; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 09:45:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g33Gd1l12223; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 09:39:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from benfranklin.hnet.uci.edu (root@benfranklin.hnet.uci.edu [128.200.119.150]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g33Gcel12022 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 09:38:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from UAOBRIEN.uci.edu (HIB435A.HNET.UCI.EDU [128.200.119.223]) by benfranklin.hnet.uci.edu (8.9.3/) with ESMTP id IAA19599 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 08:38:37 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020403082801.01b8ac70@benfranklin.hnet.uci.edu> X-Sender: uaobrien@benfranklin.hnet.uci.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Ulrika A. O'Brien" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: [f-cost] OT: avoiding spam In-Reply-To: <20020403140944.45716.qmail@web21411.mail.yahoo.com> References: <3CAA9458.1A505615@flash.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 08:40:42 -0800 Status: RO I have used Spamcop. It's free to use their service, and the site has pretty complete instructions on how to use their spam tracking and reporting correctly (it's important that you submit the full headers on the spam, and reveal codes for any embedded html, but they give you step-by-step for how to do it) and the actual spam tracking is done automatically by their software, as is the reporting. Once you learn the basic steps, it's very easy to use, but it does still take however long it takes you to cut-and-paste the spam into their website and wait for the tracking to go through. (If you join their service, for some pretty nominal fee, the wait time goes down.) It's actually kind of fun to watch the tracking (I particularly like the way it keeps referring to my ISP's bad headers as "bozotic" and the little "Yum, this spam is fresh!" message that pops up when they haven't had a previous report on a particular spam source) so I do it when I have time, but not as consistently as I probably should. Their website: http://spamcop.net/ At 06:09 AM 4/3/2002, you wrote: >Does anyone have any experience using spamcop? >Rachel > > --- Charlene Charette wrote: > Blue Dragon wrote: > > > > > Essentailly if successful this usually puts the spammer out of > > > business. All of the spam I have seen is advertising some kind of > > > scam. By doing this I have reduced the amount I get from 3-4 a > > > day to at most 1 a week. Spammers don't like me. > > > > If you're getting 3-4 spam messages a day then you have the time to do > > all that tracking and bothering. I recently tracked the spam I received > > over a three-week period -- over 700. That averages to approximately 30 > > messages a day. I just don't have the time to write nasties to that > > many ISPs. > > > > --Charlene > > > > -- > > When aiming for the common denominator, be prepared for the occasional > > division by zero. > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Everything you'll ever need on one web page >from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts >http://uk.my.yahoo.com >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Ulrika O'Brien English & Comparative Literature University of California, Irvine 435 Humanities Instructional Building (949) 824-6712 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 3 13:52:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA22525 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 13:52:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g33Hl5U10867; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 10:47:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g33Hl0l25068; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 10:47:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from web14008.mail.yahoo.com (web14008.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.124]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g33Hk3l24423 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 10:46:04 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20020403174603.39690.qmail@web14008.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [206.148.69.26] by web14008.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 03 Apr 2002 09:46:03 PST From: Cin To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] 1936 vintage ironing board Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 09:46:03 -0800 (PST) Status: RO A friend just called and asked if I wanted a 1936 vintage ironing board. This just isnt my living history era. So I though of all of you. (How could I not?) Solid cherry wood, nifty nameplate with company name & mfg date. Free to good home. Contact kriden123@aol.com for further info, pick/delivery arrangements. Silicon Valley location... ===== --cin Cynthia hysteria95126@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 3 14:42:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA22732 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 14:42:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g33Ic8U16427; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 11:38:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g33Ic1l29504; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 11:38:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web9803.mail.yahoo.com (web9803.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.213]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g33Iarl28802 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 11:36:54 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20020403183652.28016.qmail@web9803.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [12.87.134.75] by web9803.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 03 Apr 2002 10:36:52 PST From: Kate To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1371391567-1017859012=:27457" Subject: [h-cost] Coming to Chicago *and* Detroit... Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 10:36:52 -0800 (PST) Status: RO --0-1371391567-1017859012=:27457 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii An exhibit titled "The Medici, Michelangelo, and the Art of Late Renaissance Florence is coming November 9, 2002-February 2, 2003 in Chicago then to Detroit in March 2003!! It also says "COSTUMES!" Wonder what will be included--does anyone know where the de'Medici grave clothes are housed?? It would just be too much to hope that those garments would be stable enough to travel... Kate >From the AIC website: http://www.artic.edu/aic/exhibitions/michelangelo.html "The Medici, Michelangelo, and the Art of Late Renaissance Florence --------------------------------------------------------------------- Regenstein Hall Overview: In collaboration with the Soprintendenza per i Beni Artistici e Storici in Florence and the Detroit Institute of Arts, The Art Institute of Chicago is organizing this major international exhibition of approximately 180 paintings, sculptures, graphics, porcelain, tapestries, costumes, and other works of art. The exhibition will provide a detailed survey of the art and culture of Florence between 1537, the election of Cosimo I de’Medici as Duke of Tuscany, and 1631, the death of his grandson, Cosimo II de’Medici. Featured will be sculptures and drawings by Michelangelo from the period of the artist’s early association with Cosimo I, as well as important works by other artists employed by the Medici, such as the painters Bronzino, Pontormo, and Salviati, and the sculptors Cellini and Giambologna. Many of the objects, including some of the most celebrated sculptures from the Boboli Gardens and works from the Studiolo (vaultroom) of Francesco I de’Medici in the Palazzo ! Vechhio, have never before traveled out of Florence. Other Venues: Palazzo Strozzi, Florence; The Detroit Institute of Arts Curators: Larry Feinberg, Patrick G. and Shirley W. Ryan Curator of European Painting, The Art Institute of Chicago; Alan P. Darr, ,Walter B. Ford II Family Curator of European Sculpture and Decorative Arts, The Detroit Institute of Arts; Marco Chiarini, director emeritus, Palazzo Pitti, Florence " --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax --0-1371391567-1017859012=:27457 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

An exhibit titled "The Medici, Michelangelo, and the Art of Late Renaissance Florence is coming November 9, 2002-February 2, 2003 in Chicago then to Detroit in March 2003!!

It also says "COSTUMES!" Wonder what will be included--does anyone know where the de'Medici grave clothes are housed?? It would just be too much to hope that those garments would be stable enough to travel...

Kate

From the AIC website:
http://www.artic.edu/aic/exhibitions/michelangelo.html                                                                      
"The Medici, Michelangelo, and the Art of Late Renaissance Florence
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Regenstein Hall

Overview: In collaboration with the Soprintendenza per i Beni Artistici e Storici in Florence and the Detroit Institute of Arts, The Art Institute of Chicago is organizing this major international exhibition of approximately 180 paintings, sc! ulptures, graphics, porcelain, tapestries, costumes, and other works of art. The exhibition will provide a detailed survey of the art and culture of Florence between 1537, the election of Cosimo I de’Medici as Duke of Tuscany, and 1631, the death of his grandson, Cosimo II de’Medici. Featured will be sculptures and drawings by Michelangelo from the period of the artist’s early association with Cosimo I, as well as important works by other artists employed by the Medici, such as the painters Bronzino, Pontormo, and Salviati, and the sculptors Cellini and Giambologna. Many of the objects, including some of the most celebrated sculptures from the Boboli Gardens and works from the Studiolo (vaultroom) of Francesco I de’Medici in the Palazzo Vechhio, have never before traveled out of Florence.

Other Venues: Palazzo Strozzi, Florence; The Detroit Institute of Arts

Curators: Larry Feinberg, Patrick G. and Shirley W. Ryan Curator of European ! Painting, The Art Institute of Chicago; Alan P. Darr, ,Walter! B. Ford II Family Curator of European Sculpture and Decorative Arts, The Detroit Institute of Arts; Marco Chiarini, director emeritus, Palazzo Pitti, Florence "



 


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Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax --0-1371391567-1017859012=:27457-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 3 15:04:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA22928 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 15:04:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g33Ix2U18559; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 11:59:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g33Ix0l12465; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 11:59:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from kumc-scanout.kumc.edu (kumc-scanout.kumc.edu [169.147.166.198]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g33Ivnl11791 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 11:57:50 -0700 (MST) Received: FROM gatedo.kumc.edu BY kumc-scanout.kumc.edu ; Wed Apr 03 12:57:46 2002 -0600 Received: from KUMC-GATEWAY-DOMAIN-Message_Server by gatedo.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 03 Apr 2002 12:57:47 -0600 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 5.5.3.1 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g33Ivnl11791 Subject: [h-cost] Bum Rolls Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 12:57:36 -0600 Status: RO My remark, along with a suitably wide-eyed innocent stare is "bum roll? What bum roll?" (said with no seriousness at all) Regina --- I couldn't keep a straight face :). My remark would have been along the line of: (in bad hispanic accent) "Bumrolls? We don't need no stinking bumrolls!!!!" Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 3 15:18:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA23039 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 15:18:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g33J5CU19219; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 12:05:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g33J51l16208; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 12:05:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web14007.mail.yahoo.com (web14007.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.123]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g33J4Al15718 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 12:04:10 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20020403190410.47474.qmail@web14007.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.142.121.198] by web14007.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 03 Apr 2002 11:04:10 PST From: Cin Subject: Re: [h-cost] Coming to Chicago *and* Detroit... To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20020403183652.28016.qmail@web9803.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 11:04:10 -0800 (PST) Status: RO --- Kate wrote: > > An exhibit titled "The Medici, Michelangelo, and the Art of Late Renaissance > Florence is coming November 9, 2002-February 2, 2003 in Chicago then to > Detroit in March 2003!! > > It also says "COSTUMES!" Wonder what will be included--does anyone know where > the de'Medici grave clothes are housed?? It would just be too much to hope > that those garments would be stable enough to travel... At the Pitti Palace, Florence. I have the catalog, but the exhibits have been closed for renovation for YEARS. Is the show going anywhere else? Like the West Coast? the East Coast? ===== --cin Cynthia hysteria95126@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 3 16:55:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA27771 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 16:55:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g33KeDU28598; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 13:40:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g33Ke5l13074; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 13:40:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g33Kdil12870 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 13:39:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.133.149.142] (pm5-142.eos.net [205.133.149.142]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA09674 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 15:39:39 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200204031841.g33IfUl01941@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: ironing board Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 15:32:36 -0500 Status: RO Cin wrote: "A friend just called and asked if I wanted a 1936 vintage ironing board. This just isnt my living history era. So I though of all of you. (How could I not?) Solid cherry wood, nifty nameplate with company name & mfg date. Free to good home." If no one wants the 1936 ironing board, your friend could check with local history museums. I used to work for one, and we always wanted things like that for our collections. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 3 17:18:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA27859 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 17:18:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g33LB3U01606; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 14:11:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g33LB1l00918; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 14:11:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g33LANl00521 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 14:10:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from sdn-ap-010watacop2003.dialsprint.net ([65.176.103.225] helo=laptop) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16ss1L-00073Y-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 03 Apr 2002 13:10:20 -0800 From: "Saragrace knauf" To: Organization: PII Message-ID: <000801c1db52$d0131fc0$e167b041@laptop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Subject: [h-cost] Jaqueline Kennedy Fashion Exhibit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 14:02:05 -0700 Status: RO http://www.wamu.org/dr/ The Diane Rehm show interview with the curator of this event can be heard at the above URL. The exhibit is at the Corcoran Gallery of Art in D.C. Thought some of you might be interested. Saragrace _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 3 18:16:19 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA28174 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 18:16:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g33M0BU06878; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 15:00:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g33M01l29852; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 15:00:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtprelay9.dc2.adelphia.net (smtprelay9.dc2.adelphia.net [64.8.50.53]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g33Lx7l29270 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 14:59:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from [68.65.178.96] ([68.65.178.96]) by smtprelay9.dc2.adelphia.net (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id GU0IIU00.WFA for ; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 17:01:42 -0500 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bum Rolls From: randl To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 16:59:00 -0500 Status: RO I wore my 1st doublet bodice elizabethan to a big a&s event. Black velvet w/wide black braid guards and a cartridge pleated skirt. I was sooo proud, until...a friend and fellow garb freak walks up behind me, pokes me in the butt and asks, "hey, izzy, is that a bum roll?". I replied, calmly, "no, lynn, that's my ass". I'm not sure which of us was more embarrassed:) laurie > My remark, along with a suitably wide-eyed innocent stare is "bum roll? > What bum roll?" (said with no seriousness at all) > > Regina > --- > > I couldn't keep a straight face :). My remark would have been along the line > of: (in bad hispanic accent) "Bumrolls? We don't need no stinking > bumrolls!!!!" > > Catherine > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 3 20:31:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA28700 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 20:31:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g340PqU21582; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 17:26:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g340H1l19401; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 17:17:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g340GPl19039 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 17:16:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g340GNCl023276 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 19:16:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from lindo (p17.a8.du.radix.net [207.192.132.145]) by saltmine.radix.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA27863 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 19:16:22 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200204040016.TAA27863@saltmine.radix.net> X-Sender: lindo@saltmine.radix.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kevin + Mara Riley Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: [h-cost] Looking for Heather Swann Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 19:15:21 -0500 Status: RO Does anyone have an email address for Heather Swann, costumer and SCA member in the Washington, DC area? I found book she loaned me several years ago (oops!) and want to return it. -- Mara Kevin + Mara Riley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 3 22:58:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA29079 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 22:58:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g342r9U01267; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 19:53:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g342r0l16188; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 19:53:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail3.aracnet.com (mail3.aracnet.com [216.99.193.38]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g342qbl16071 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 19:52:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) by mail3.aracnet.com (8.12.2/8.12.1) with ESMTP id g342qsmv030324 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 18:52:54 -0800 From: "Wanda Pease" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Bum rolls (WAS: Re: Oscars) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20020402214137.05098570@mail.frys.com> Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 18:56:08 -0800 Status: RO Chuckle! Kayta, I meant that my "bum roll" is built in, or as Catherine says "Bum Roll! We don't need no steeking Bum Roll!" Regina -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On Behalf Of Carolyn Kayta Barrows Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 9:43 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] Bum rolls (WAS: Re: Oscars) >My remark, along with a suitably wide-eyed innocent stare is "bum roll? >What bum roll?" (said with no seriousness at all) It's a roll of padding, anywhere from the size of a large sausage to the size of an inner tube (car tires/tyres used to have them), worn around your 'bum' (backside), to make your Elizabethan skirt stick out in a large-hips sort of way. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 4 00:05:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA29314 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 00:05:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3440iU04674; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 21:00:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3440fl05417; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 21:00:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from web9806.mail.yahoo.com (web9806.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.29]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g343sMl03761 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 20:54:22 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20020404035421.22638.qmail@web9806.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [12.87.142.74] by web9806.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 03 Apr 2002 19:54:21 PST From: Kate To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20020403190410.47474.qmail@web14007.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1580910185-1017892461=:21093" Subject: [h-cost] Re: Coming to Chicago *and* Detroit... Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 19:54:21 -0800 (PST) Status: RO --0-1580910185-1017892461=:21093 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii It looks like only one other place, and that's in Italy... Other Venues: Palazzo Strozzi, Florence Kate Cin wrote: --- Kate wrote: > > An exhibit titled "The Medici, Michelangelo, and the Art of Late Renaissance > Florence is coming November 9, 2002-February 2, 2003 in Chicago then to > Detroit in March 2003!! > > It also says "COSTUMES!" Wonder what will be included--does anyone know where > the de'Medici grave clothes are housed?? It would just be too much to hope > that those garments would be stable enough to travel... At the Pitti Palace, Florence. I have the catalog, but the exhibits have been closed for renovation for YEARS. Is the show going anywhere else? Like the West Coast? the East Coast? ===== --cin Cynthia hysteria95126@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costumeI --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax --0-1580910185-1017892461=:21093 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

It looks like only one other place, and that's in Italy...

Other Venues: Palazzo Strozzi, Florence

Kate

 

  Cin <hysteria95126@yahoo.com> wrote:


--- Kate wrote:
>
> An exhibit titled "The Medici, Michelangelo, and the Art of Late Renaissance
> Florence is coming November 9, 2002-February 2, 2003 in Chicago then to
> Detroit in March 2003!!
>
> It also says "COSTUMES!" Wonder what will be included--does anyone know where
> the de'Medici grave clothes are housed?? It would just be too much to hope
> that those garments would be stable enough to travel...

At the Pitti Palace, Florence. I have the catalog, but the exhibits have been
closed for renovation for YEARS. Is the show going anywhere else? Like the
West Coast? the East Coast?


=====
--cin
Cynthia
hysteria95126@yahoo.com

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Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax --0-1580910185-1017892461=:21093-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 4 10:42:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA26878 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 10:42:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g34Eb7U27427; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 07:37:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g34Eb0l22279; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 07:37:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g34EZFl21554 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 07:35:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a237.in-tch.com [66.62.107.37]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g34ELpj28923 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 07:21:51 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3CAC658B.C8CF1584@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bum Rolls References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 07:39:07 -0700 Status: RO ROTFLMAO..... --Sue, who has no butt to speak of, and needs a bumroll to balance out being -uh- "front heavy" randl wrote: > > I wore my 1st doublet bodice elizabethan to a big a&s event. Black velvet > w/wide black braid guards and a cartridge pleated skirt. I was sooo proud, > until...a friend and fellow garb freak walks up behind me, pokes me in the > butt and asks, "hey, izzy, is that a bum roll?". I replied, calmly, "no, > lynn, that's my ass". > I'm not sure which of us was more embarrassed:) > laurie > > My remark, along with a suitably wide-eyed innocent stare is "bum roll? > > What bum roll?" (said with no seriousness at all) > > > > Regina > > --- > > > > I couldn't keep a straight face :). My remark would have been along the line > > of: (in bad hispanic accent) "Bumrolls? We don't need no stinking > > bumrolls!!!!" > > > > Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 4 10:59:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA27018 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 10:59:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g34Es3U28442; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 07:54:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g34Es1l28800; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 07:54:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from box.holviala.com (box.holviala.com [62.236.254.198]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g34ErGl28553 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 07:53:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from bristol.maxson.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by box.holviala.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A13EA23CC9 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 17:53:06 +0300 (EEST) To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jessica Wilbur Subject: Re: [h-cost] Looking for Heather Swann X-Sender: mail43041@mail43041.popserver.pop.net X-Originating-Host: bristol.maxson.com [199.170.3.8]; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 14:53:06 GMT X-Mailer: Mailreader.com v2.3.29 (2001-07-20) X-Browser: Mozilla/4.72 [en] (Win95; U), JavaScript: On Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: jessica@pop.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 09:51:30 -0500 Status: RO Hi Mara, I haven't seen Heather in some time (she's not really active in the SCA anymore), but I believe her email is currently heather@pop.net. Good luck! --Jessica At Wednesday, 03 April 2002, you wrote: >Does anyone have an email address for Heather Swann, costumer and SCA >member in the Washington, DC area? I found book she loaned me several >years ago (oops!) and want to return it. > >-- Mara >Kevin + Mara Riley > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > =================================================================== EASY and FREE access to your email anywhere: http://Mailreader.com/ =================================================================== _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 4 14:32:10 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA27795 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 14:32:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g34IR9X05987; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 11:27:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g34IR1l23563; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 11:27:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web14007.mail.yahoo.com (web14007.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.123]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g34IPfl22783 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 11:25:41 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20020404182541.18697.qmail@web14007.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [206.148.71.103] by web14007.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 04 Apr 2002 10:25:41 PST From: Cin Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: ironing board To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 10:25:41 -0800 (PST) Status: RO > If no one wants the 1936 ironing board, your friend could check with local > history museums. I used to work for one, and we always wanted things like > that for our collections. > > Gail Finke Good point. Silly me at docent at 3 and didnt think of that. ===== --cin Cynthia hysteria95126@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 4 19:20:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA00428 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 19:20:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g34NG4X07019; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 16:16:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g34NG0l09657; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 16:16:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13506.mail.yahoo.com (web13506.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.85]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g34NFil09507 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 16:15:44 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20020404231543.24468.qmail@web13506.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [143.192.1.15] by web13506.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 04 Apr 2002 15:15:43 PST From: Sheila To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200204041907.g34J7rl17023@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Caul Question Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 15:15:43 -0800 (PST) Status: RO I just started making a caul, following the directions on Drea's site, and I have 3 white ones cut out from a linen/cotten. I was going to decorate 2 and leave one plain. I'm wondering if caul's were mainly white, or can they be from any color and a variety of fabrics? Also I'm thinking of doing an interwoven ribbon pattern on one with 3-shades of blue and pearls, is ribbon an appropriate decoration? I'm thinking to do this one quick on the machine, and plan a more elaborate one later. Any suggestions or ideas will be appreciated. Thanks! Sheila Phoenix, AZ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 4 19:22:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA00436 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 19:22:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g34NI8X07248; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 16:18:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g34NI3l10880; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 16:18:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13509.mail.yahoo.com (web13509.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.13]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g34NGtl10160 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 16:16:55 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20020404231654.8141.qmail@web13509.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [143.192.1.15] by web13509.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 04 Apr 2002 15:16:54 PST From: Sheila To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200204041907.g34J7rl17023@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Antique Satin? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 15:16:54 -0800 (PST) Status: RO I found something in the decorator section of my local JoAnns called "Antique Satin" it feels like a poly/rayon and it hangs really nicely. Does anyone know what this is or has used it before? Thanks! Sheila Phoenix, AZ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 4 21:14:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA00745 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 21:14:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g351A4X17470; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 18:10:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g351A1l02449; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 18:10:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3519sl02400 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 18:09:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA29892 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 20:29:21 -0600 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Antique Satin? In-Reply-To: <20020404231654.8141.qmail@web13509.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 20:29:21 -0600 (CST) Status: RO On Thu, 4 Apr 2002, Sheila wrote: > I found something in the decorator section of my local JoAnns called > "Antique Satin" it feels like a poly/rayon and it hangs really nicely. > Does anyone know what this is or has used it before? Antique satin is used quite commonly for drapery. It varies from smooth to very slubby, and has a noticeable satin grain. The back is often quite smooth, even slick. It usually comes in neutral and decorator tones -- white, ivory, taupe, various blues and pinks and greens -- but sometimes in bright colors as well. You'll pay top price at a place like Joann's, but if you have a store near you that sells decorator/drapery remnants, you can often find sizable amounts as low as $1/yard. The fiber content is almost always rayon/acetate. I used to use it a lot as a silk imitation, particularly for linings. However, it does not breathe very well, and it wears badly. Rayon does not hold up well to sweat; I had one antique satin dress that literally disintegrated under the arms. I do not use it at all now, except for things like (modern) draperies, but if you find the right texture and color, it can be an economical and attractive silk imitation for uses that are not close to the body (e.g. an Elizabethan petticoat). I don't know how it would stack up for later periods. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 4 21:38:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA00831 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 21:38:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g351Y6X18729; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 18:34:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g351Y1l10762; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 18:34:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web11704.mail.yahoo.com (web11704.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.70]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g351Wul10331 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 18:32:57 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20020405013256.98865.qmail@web11704.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [66.26.41.88] by web11704.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 04 Apr 2002 17:32:56 PST From: carol Subject: Re: [h-cost] Caul Question To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20020404231543.24468.qmail@web13506.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1876201363-1017970376=:96177" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 17:32:56 -0800 (PST) Status: RO --0-1876201363-1017970376=:96177 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Sheila, Could you send me directions on how you make your ribbon cauls ? I want to make one but have no idea how to do so. Thanks Carol ....you cease to mourn the morning when you celebrate the night ..... "The night summons like an unquenched love, beckoning with the promise of dark desires." "The only way to get rid of temptation is to give in to it" ... Oscar Wilde --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax --0-1876201363-1017970376=:96177 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

 Hi Sheila,

Could you send me directions on how you make your ribbon cauls ?  I want to make one but have no idea how to do so.

 

Thanks

Carol



....you cease to mourn the morning when you celebrate the night .....

"The night summons like an unquenched love, beckoning with the promise of dark desires."

"The only way to get rid of temptation is to give in to it" ... Oscar Wilde


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Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax --0-1876201363-1017970376=:96177-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 5 00:46:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA01397 for ; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 00:46:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g354g3X28700; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 21:42:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g354g1l07415; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 21:42:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g354fWl07218 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 21:41:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from dandy.net (pvil2239.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.237.239]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA03299 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 23:39:21 -0500 Message-ID: <3CAD292D.EC767D2E@dandy.net> From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Caul Question References: <20020404231543.24468.qmail@web13506.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 23:33:49 -0500 Status: RO Hi, Sheila. I haven't been over to Drea's for a while now. What piece of headgear is the caul again? If you are referring to either a cap and/or forehead cloth, there are many extant ones out there with polychrome embroidery, metallic lace and spangles. I couldn't speak for either ribbon or beads, as I can't remember ever seeing either an extant one or one from a painting, etc. On an aside, I picked up a catalog from a company with some books that may be of interest to some on the list. Schiffer Publishing published books on, among other topics, vintage fashions and accessories. the website is www.schifferbooks.com. Fred Struthers probably has some of the titles, or might be able to get gently used copies if the prices are too steep, perhaps (huh, Fred?) Cheers, Mike T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 5 00:48:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA01405 for ; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 00:48:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g354i1X28808; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 21:44:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g354i0l07973; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 21:44:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from watchman.propagation.net ([63.249.230.111]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g354h6l07678 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 21:43:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumemag.com (co-trinidad1c-155.lbrlks.adelphia.net [24.49.6.155]) by watchman.propagation.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA09070; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 22:43:18 -0600 Message-ID: <3CAD2E5E.87517991@costumemag.com> From: Mary Denise Smith X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-NSCPCD (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Outlands List , sca list , h-costume , SCA Garb List Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Outlands Costume Collegium Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 21:56:00 -0700 Status: RO Greetings to the Lists, As some of you may know, The Outlands has suffered a painful loss with the death of Mistress Kiriel of Windhover Cliff. Because of this, Outlands Costume Collegium has made a few minor adjustments to the schedule. We will be going forward with the event this weekend, and invite all who are interested in clothing from the Fall of the Roman Empire to the beginning of the Modern Era to join us in Trinidad, Colorado. There is one dorm room (2 beds) available for both Friday and Saturday night. The cost is $25 per night single, or $20 per person, per night double. If anyone wishes to occupy this room, please email me privately (editor@costumemag.com). The Costume Collegium Committee and the teachers look forward to seeing you this weekend. For further information, please check the web site http://www.caerthe.org/ccv/ccv.html YIS, Lady Marged Tylluan Fach autocrat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 5 11:00:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA31281 for ; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 11:00:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g35Eu8X06433; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 07:56:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g355W1l21511; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 22:32:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g355Vel21419 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 22:31:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m8.in-tch.com [216.166.191.8]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g355JMj08918 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 22:19:22 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3CAD37E7.912BCD73@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Antique Satin? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 22:36:39 -0700 Status: RO I picked up some (med/dark blue on one side, pretty much black on the satin side) dirt cheap in the flat folds section of a JoAnn's years ago, and made a fairly successful gwahzee coat out of it. Robin's right...doesn't breathe too well, so I wear it at the occasional SCA camping event in the evenings, when I don't feel like tripping around in the dark with a lot of skirts. Haven't noticed a sweat problem, or wear-and-tear problems, but then, I don't make use of it that often, especially since I've been bitten by the Authentic Fibers Bug... --sue, just going over her linen stash tonight, as a matter of fact..... Robin Netherton wrote: > > On Thu, 4 Apr 2002, Sheila wrote: > > > I found something in the decorator section of my local JoAnns called > > "Antique Satin" it feels like a poly/rayon and it hangs really nicely. > > Does anyone know what this is or has used it before? > > Antique satin is used quite commonly for drapery. It varies from smooth to > very slubby, and has a noticeable satin grain. The back is often quite > smooth, even slick. It usually comes in neutral and decorator tones -- > white, ivory, taupe, various blues and pinks and greens -- but sometimes > in bright colors as well. You'll pay top price at a place like Joann's, > but if you have a store near you that sells decorator/drapery remnants, > you can often find sizable amounts as low as $1/yard. > > The fiber content is almost always rayon/acetate. I used to use it a lot > as a silk imitation, particularly for linings. However, it does not > breathe very well, and it wears badly. Rayon does not hold up well to > sweat; I had one antique satin dress that literally disintegrated under > the arms. I do not use it at all now, except for things like (modern) > draperies, but if you find the right texture and color, it can be an > economical and attractive silk imitation for uses that are not close to > the body (e.g. an Elizabethan petticoat). I don't know how it would stack > up for later periods. > > --Robin > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 5 11:00:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA31283 for ; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 11:00:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g35Eu7X06420; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 07:56:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g357G0l19353; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 00:16:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from hirogen.kabelfoon.nl (hirogen.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.69]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g357FOl19227 for ; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 00:15:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-fp02-135.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.121.135]) by hirogen.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F3CD7CCD for ; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 09:15:22 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3CAD51A8.E43855DB@kabelfoon.nl> From: Deredere & Owen Iskander X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Museum Replica 15th Century Gown on eBay Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 09:26:32 +0200 Status: RO Hi, I just saw this dress on eBay. I think it looks strange for a 15th century replica. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1089872144 Greetings, Deredere _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 5 11:00:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA31289 for ; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 11:00:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g35EtPX05883; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 07:55:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g358r1l11126; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 01:53:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g358qel11040 for ; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 01:52:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KG783ZTVY8012XJA@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 05 Apr 2002 09:55:16 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk ([158.94.56.3]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KG783XMJCQ01176Q@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 05 Apr 2002 09:55:13 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Fri, 05 Apr 2002 09:52:02 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Fri, 05 Apr 2002 09:51:47 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.107) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Fri, 05 Apr 2002 09:51:45 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bum Rolls In-reply-to: <200204041908.g34J80l17087@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <893F3F22522@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 09:51:44 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > I wore my 1st doublet bodice elizabethan to a big a&s event. Black > velvet w/wide black braid guards and a cartridge pleated skirt. I was > sooo proud, until...a friend and fellow garb freak walks up behind me, > pokes me in the butt and asks, "hey, izzy, is that a bum roll?". I > replied, calmly, "no, lynn, that's my ass". I'm not sure which of us > was more embarrassed:) A number of years ago I made my first inroads into dcorset making with the Tudor corset from the Hunnisett book.... I was worried as the girl I was making it for was considerably bigger thant he patterns in the book but it turned out beautifully. The first time my firend tried it on (over a flowery night-dress as she hadn't finished her smock) she looked at herself proudly in the mirror then turned sideways for a look at her profile.... she turned to me and said "shelves at the front and at the back - at least I won't need to make a bum-roll. And it was, quite literally, a shelf, the waist-tabs sat completely horizontal across the perfectly flat top surface of her bum! Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 5 11:09:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA31310 for ; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 11:09:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g35F54X08118; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 08:05:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g35F51l24248; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 08:05:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r01.mx.aol.com (imo-r01.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.97]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g35F48l23908 for ; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 08:04:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from Azelana@aol.com by imo-r01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 7.82.19be6289 (4468) for ; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 10:03:58 -0500 (EST) From: Azelana@aol.com Message-ID: <82.19be6289.29df16de@aol.com> To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 124 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Museum Replicas Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 10:03:58 EST Status: RO << For the best usable swords for the money, with a guarantee, try a Starfire. They do break if you're really mean to them, but the customer service is excellent. >> Certainly Starfires are cheap -- but you get what you pay for. I've broken 3 of their longswords, each within a year of purchase. I will admit, however, that the last break was 6 years ago. (Stopped buying them after that.) Seeing their work again last fall at King Richard's Faire, I did notice a marked improvement in their quality compared to the ones I had owned. Any sword can be broken, though. Windless Steelcrafts inspects their work, but does not test each blade after the prototype passes. Museum Replicas then retests by ordering just a handful of the WS blades and putting them through hell. (They order more than one to check the consistency of manufacturing quality.) But again, they do not test each blade after the samples pass. This does leave the possibility of blades with manufacturer's defects. It is also possible to not test appropriately for the particular flaws in the design. And lastly, abused blades will always break more quickly. The most commonly overlooked abuses are letting them rust and not polishing out nicks in the edge. But hard use in live steel can break the best kept blade. What can ya do? --Gillian _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 5 11:25:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02967 for ; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 11:25:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g35FL1X09335; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 08:21:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g35FL0l00589; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 08:21:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m10.mx.aol.com (imo-m10.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.165]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g35FJIl29824 for ; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 08:19:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.16e.b8ee64a (4208) for ; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 10:19:08 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <16e.b8ee64a.29df1a6c@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Museum Replica 15th Century Gown on eBay To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_16e.b8ee64a.29df1a6c_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10552 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 10:19:08 EST Status: RO --part1_16e.b8ee64a.29df1a6c_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/5/2002 9:57:30 AM Eastern Standard Time, triade@kabelfoon.nl writes: > I just saw this dress on eBay. > I think it looks strange for a 15th century replica. > C'mon! You remember all those Elizabethan off the shoulder gowns with a cage crinoline under them, don't you? Looks like a fancy party dress from the "Shakespeare in Love" era. It's really not a bad looking gown, but museum replica it ain't! --part1_16e.b8ee64a.29df1a6c_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/5/2002 9:57:30 AM Eastern Standard Time, triade@kabelfoon.nl writes:


I just saw this dress on eBay.
I think it looks strange for a 15th century replica.


C'mon! You remember all those Elizabethan off the shoulder gowns with a cage crinoline under them, don't you? Looks like a fancy party dress from the "Shakespeare in Love" era. It's really not a bad looking gown, but museum replica it ain't! --part1_16e.b8ee64a.29df1a6c_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 5 11:25:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02971 for ; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 11:25:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g35FLUX09397; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 08:21:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g35FLSl00847; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 08:21:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (oe146.pav0.hotmail.com [64.4.33.139]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g35FJbl29935 for ; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 08:19:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 07:19:32 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [67.226.28.37] From: "Gia Gavino" To: "Costume List" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Museum Replica 15th Century Gown on eBay MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MSN Explorer 7.00.0021.1900 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0000_01C1DC72.35B6A7F0" Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Apr 2002 15:19:32.0186 (UTC) FILETIME=[49687BA0:01C1DCB5] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 07:19:22 -0800 Status: RO ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C1DC72.35B6A7F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hm. Doesn't look like any I've seen...But I must not be watching the rig= ht movies? *wry grin* Gia/Giacinta trying *VERY* hard to not snark..... ----- Original Message ----- From: Deredere & Owen Iskander Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 7:10 AM To: H-costume Subject: [h-cost] Museum Replica 15th Century Gown on eBay Hi, I just saw this dress on eBay. I think it looks strange for a 15th century replica. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D1089872144 Greetings, Deredere _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C1DC72.35B6A7F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hm.  Does= n't look like any I've seen...But I must not be watching the right movies= ?
*wry grin*
 
Gia/Giacinta
<= DIV>trying *VERY* hard to not snark.....
----- Orig= inal Message -----
From: Deredere & Owen Iskander
Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 7:10 AM
To: H-costume
Subject: [h-cost] Museum Replica 15th Century G= own on eBay
 
Hi,

I just saw this dress on eB= ay.
I think it looks strange for a 15th century replica.
http://cgi= .ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D1089872144

Greeting= s,
        Deredere

________= _______________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-co= stume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume<= BR>
------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C1DC72.35B6A7F0-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 5 11:29:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02991 for ; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 11:29:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g35FP1X09696; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 08:25:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g35FP0l02431; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 08:25:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g35FOrl02371 for ; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 08:24:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from 1cust121.tnt9.chiega.da.uu.net ([67.233.112.121] helo=earthlink.net) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16tVa8-0003C6-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 05 Apr 2002 07:24:52 -0800 Message-ID: <3CADC0C5.B0D398C4@earthlink.net> From: Ms Berard X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Museum Replica 15th Century Gown on eBay References: <3CAD51A8.E43855DB@kabelfoon.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 09:20:37 -0600 Status: RO Is it just me or does it look like a prom dress/special occasion dress with an old fashioned look. Can't remember when that look was popular. Onaree Deredere & Owen Iskander wrote: > > Hi, > > I just saw this dress on eBay. > I think it looks strange for a 15th century replica. > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1089872144 > > Greetings, > Deredere > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Ubi dubium ibi libertas: Where there is doubt, there is freedom. -- Latin proverb _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 5 11:50:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA03099 for ; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 11:50:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g35Fk3X11770; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 08:46:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g35Fk1l12414; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 08:46:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from WDNE2K.mackie.com ([12.144.236.36]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g35Fiil11871 for ; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 08:44:44 -0700 (MST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.4712.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: 14th century Italian costuming Thread-Index: AcHcuMzcuJX9PvCgSUaePm2EAWP1Ew== From: "Colleen McDonald" To: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g35Fiil11871 Subject: [h-cost] 14th century Italian costuming Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 07:44:42 -0800 Status: RO Hello all, I'm busily researching away on 14th century Italian ladies costuming and I was wondering if there are others out there on the list that are also researching this topic. I would love to find a few others to chat with (offline) about sources, fabrics, what's working, and what's not. Best regards, Colleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 5 13:42:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA03559 for ; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 13:42:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g35Hc6X24762; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 10:38:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g35Hc2l14717; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 10:38:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from pop2.greatbasin.net (pop2.greatbasin.net [207.228.35.4]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g35HbBl14256 for ; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 10:37:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from c946283a (24-205-200-4.cs-dyn.charterpipeline.net [24.205.200.4]) by pop2.greatbasin.net (8.12.1/8.12.1) with SMTP id g35HbAMg024786 for ; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 09:37:10 -0800 Message-ID: <007101c1dcc8$b29ba800$6401a8c0@home.com> From: "Daniel Fenwick" To: References: <82.19be6289.29df16de@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Museum Replicas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 09:38:23 -0800 Status: RO Just FYI, Windlass Steel Crafts purchaced Museum Replicas several years ago. That's when they stopped carrying Del Tin and went to only Windlass blades. Dan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 5 14:05:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA03679 for ; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 14:05:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g35I15X27447; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 11:01:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g35I13l27807; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 11:01:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f94.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.94]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g35I0Bl27370 for ; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 11:00:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 10:00:06 -0800 Received: from 141.213.6.26 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 05 Apr 2002 18:00:06 GMT X-Originating-IP: [141.213.6.26] From: "Parsla Liepa" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] 14th century Italian costuming Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Apr 2002 18:00:06.0267 (UTC) FILETIME=[B7C494B0:01C1DCCB] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: pliepa@deepthought.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 13:00:06 -0500 Status: RO Try the SCA-Garb list at Yahoo! groups. I was on it for a short while, but couldn't keep up with the nearly 50 messages a day. It's a very active list, but from what I saw, rarely does it stray off-topic. When I was on it (6 months ago?), there were several ladies doing Italian. (Not particularly my period of interest, so I didn't pay much attention to what period.) Perhaps you could join, but with your preferences set to no-mail, and just browse the archives to find info/people with your interests. Parsla >From: "Colleen McDonald" > > >Hello all, > >I'm busily researching away on 14th century Italian ladies costuming and >I was wondering if there are others out there on the list that are also >researching this topic. I would love to find a few others to chat with >(offline) about sources, fabrics, what's working, and what's not. > >Best regards, > >Colleen _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 5 14:10:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA03697 for ; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 14:10:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g35I65X28263; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 11:06:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g35I61l00738; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 11:06:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from WDNE2K.mackie.com ([12.144.236.36]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g35I5cl00534 for ; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 11:05:39 -0700 (MST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.4712.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: RE: [h-cost] 14th century Italian costuming Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [h-cost] 14th century Italian costuming Thread-Index: AcHczBCGD/sayseeQPa6iKabRCMXJAAAA9/w From: "Colleen McDonald" To: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g35I5cl00534 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 10:05:36 -0800 Status: RO Parsla wrote: <> I'm actually already on that list. Thanks for the recommendation, though. Colleen (who thinks there have to be others doing 14th century Italian....) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 5 16:58:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA04380 for ; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 16:58:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g35KrGX13884; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 13:53:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g35Kr3l28314; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 13:53:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g35KqDl27820 for ; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 13:52:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from comcast.net (pcp670884pcs.indpnd01.mo.comcast.net [68.34.234.170]) by mtaout45-02.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built Feb 6 2002)) with ESMTP id <0GU4000L74MVKG@mtaout45-02.icomcast.net> for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Fri, 05 Apr 2002 15:52:07 -0500 (EST) From: "Linda J. Thompson" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Museum Replica 15th Century Gown on eBay To: h-costume@net.indra.com Message-id: <3CAE0EE7.5000303@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 14:53:59 -0600 Status: RO It amazes me what people will say on Ebay to sell something. Maybe the dress was made by a curator at a museum, perhaps they wore it to an evening function, but there is no way it is a replication of anything other than someones prom dress. sheesh.. -- Linda Thompson Visit www.seams-to-be.com where Attitude is Everything _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 5 18:24:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA04700 for ; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 18:24:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g35MK6X22407; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 15:20:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g35MK2l14575; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 15:20:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtprelay8.dc2.adelphia.net (smtprelay8.dc2.adelphia.net [64.8.50.40]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g35MIml13953 for ; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 15:18:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from [68.65.178.96] ([68.65.178.96]) by smtprelay8.dc2.adelphia.net (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id GU48CC01.UBZ for ; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 17:12:12 -0500 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Museum Replica 15th Century Gown on eBay From: randl To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3CAD51A8.E43855DB@kabelfoon.nl> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 17:12:12 -0500 Status: RO I'm thinking it must be a -Queen Margot- gown. Y'know, like the white one at the end that her brother, the king, bleeds all over. laurie > Hi, > > I just saw this dress on eBay. > I think it looks strange for a 15th century replica. > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1089872144 > > Greetings, > Deredere > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 5 20:29:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA05125 for ; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 20:29:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g360P8X02971; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 17:25:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g360P2l10526; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 17:25:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) id g360Oep10374 for h-costume@net.indra.com; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 17:24:40 -0700 (MST) From: Elizabeth Lear To: h-costume@net.indra.com Message-ID: <20020405172439.B8873@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Subject: [h-cost] Hat Matters Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 17:24:40 -0700 Status: RO Does anyone have a phone # for Hat Matters? They have a shipment ready to go out to me, but I have sent them email with my postal address three times, and all I get are notes from them saying they haven't gotten my address yet!! ...eliz _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 5 20:35:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA05156 for ; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 20:35:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g360VhX03335; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 17:31:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g360Vgl12913; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 17:31:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g360Qpl11221 for ; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 17:26:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m7.in-tch.com [216.166.191.7]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g360EXj15567 for ; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 17:14:33 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3CAE41F8.FC2D9DAB@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Museum Replica 15th Century Gown on eBay References: <3CAD51A8.E43855DB@kabelfoon.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 17:31:52 -0700 Status: RO It's a very pretty costume (and obviously, lots of work went into it). However, 15th century it ain't....Could the seller have gotten the century wrong or something? Heck, the farthingale doesn't even look right for the 16th c.....more like something US Civil War-ish, to my *completely* un-nineteenth century eyes..... --sue Deredere & Owen Iskander wrote: > > Hi, > > I just saw this dress on eBay. > I think it looks strange for a 15th century replica. > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1089872144 > > Greetings, > Deredere > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 5 21:23:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA05296 for ; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 21:23:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g361J4X05892; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 18:19:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g361J1l27147; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 18:19:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web20102.mail.yahoo.com (web20102.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.39]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g361IBl26927 for ; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 18:18:11 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20020406011810.5191.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [4.33.5.149] by web20102.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 05 Apr 2002 17:18:10 PST From: Sidonia Ros Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hat Matters To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20020405172439.B8873@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 17:18:10 -0800 (PST) Status: RO The phone number for Hat Matters is 707/433-6002. Or at least that is the last number I had for them from 6 months ago. Ghislaine --- Elizabeth Lear wrote: > > Does anyone have a phone # for Hat Matters? They > have a shipment > ready to go out to me, but I have sent them email > with my postal > address three times, and all I get are notes from > them saying they > haven't gotten my address yet!! > > ...eliz > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 5 21:35:14 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA05342 for ; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 21:35:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g361V4X06490; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 18:31:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g361V1l00480; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 18:31:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from watchman.propagation.net ([63.249.230.111]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g361Ual00360 for ; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 18:30:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumemag.com (co-trinidad1c-155.lbrlks.adelphia.net [24.49.6.155]) by watchman.propagation.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA20666 for ; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 19:30:53 -0600 Message-ID: <3CAE52C9.C1ED4A1E@costumemag.com> From: Mary Denise Smith X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-NSCPCD (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hat Matters References: <20020406011810.5191.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 18:43:37 -0700 Status: RO The # I have is 702-433-6002. Note the different area code. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 5 22:41:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA05572 for ; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 22:41:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g362b5X09505; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 19:37:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g362b1l17305; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 19:37:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web20102.mail.yahoo.com (web20102.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.39]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g362avl17274 for ; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 19:36:58 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20020406023655.15951.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [4.33.5.149] by web20102.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 05 Apr 2002 18:36:55 PST From: Sidonia Ros Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hat Matters To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20020406011810.5191.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 18:36:55 -0800 (PST) Status: RO Eeeeek! You're right. The area code is definately 702. Dyslexia is setting in. Hat Matters is in 702 (Las Vegas) and NOT in 707 (Santa Rosa apparently). Sorry about that. Ghislaine --- Sidonia Ros wrote: > The phone number for Hat Matters is 707/433-6002. > Or > at least that is the last number I had for them from > 6 > months ago. > > Ghislaine > > > --- Elizabeth Lear wrote: > > > > Does anyone have a phone # for Hat Matters? They > > have a shipment > > ready to go out to me, but I have sent them email > > with my postal > > address three times, and all I get are notes from > > them saying they > > haven't gotten my address yet!! > > > > ...eliz > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax > http://taxes.yahoo.com/ > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 5 23:47:16 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA05835 for ; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 23:47:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g363h3X12458; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 20:43:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g363h1l03833; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 20:43:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g363grl03809 for ; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 20:42:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from dandy.net (pvil2172.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.237.172]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA21921 for ; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 22:40:32 -0500 Message-ID: <3CAE6CD5.2999875A@dandy.net> From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Museum Replicas References: <82.19be6289.29df16de@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 22:34:45 -0500 Status: RO Hi, All. I am certainly no fan of Museum Ripoffs, especially their so called "reproduction historical clothing", but the weapon issue is somewhat near and dear to me. I remember selling blades across the street from a Starfire vendor. The blades I was vending (not manufacturing) were of variable quality, and were sold as such and priced accordingly. Physically, they were acceptable to the venue in which they were being presented. Regardless, the Starfire vendor had singled me out for especial abuse, and referred loudly to the perceived quality (or lack thereof) of the items I was carrying. These blades were manufactured in the Phillipines from steel stock used to cut mahogany, and is a very tough, but slightly brittle air hardening steel. If used for their intended purpose (wall hanger or belt decoration, or for that matter, cutting through leather, cloth or meat) they would have done well, as I have found out since. The Starfire dealer, however, played off the machismo and ignorance of his crowd, and demonstrated the "superiority" of his wares by repeatedly punching them through a car hood (mercifully detached from said car) and cinderblocks. Despite the obvious lack of balance and symmetry of his work, it's remarkable similarity to a flattened steel rod, and the fact that very few if any historical swords would have been used in that way, or survived if they did, he continued his tirade. When he was at maximum crowd capacity and volume, I was pleased to see a small gentleman walk up and ask to inspect the sword. After having done so, he casually returned it to the vendor and, in a clear but not loud voice, asked the fellow if it often happened to him that he was attacked by thugs wearing cinderblocks as armor? Needless to say, after the laughter died down, the Starfire vendor was much more subdued in his vigor. I would not recommend either the Starfires or the MR blades to anyone recreating steel combat. There are much better variants out there that are both safer and last longer, are aesthetically pleasing as a copy of a historical weapon, and are priced comparably. All this said, I do like the shape and weight of some MR pieces, and they are trying to copy more faithfully the shape of some extant pieces. It is a shame that they don't use Del Tin anymore. Perhaps MR should hire someone comparable to Hank Reinhardt to overhaul their clothing line. Any ideas? Perhaps you could be the next shining star of MR ;) Mike T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Apr 6 00:37:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA06009 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 00:37:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g364X3X14605; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 21:33:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g364X1l16098; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 21:33:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r01.mx.aol.com (imo-r01.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.97]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g364WRl15999 for ; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 21:32:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.7e.259cd009 (16485) for ; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 23:32:18 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <7e.259cd009.29dfd451@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Museum Replica 15th Century Gown on eBay To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_7e.259cd009.29dfd451_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10560 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 23:32:17 EST Status: RO --part1_7e.259cd009.29dfd451_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/5/2002 5:20:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, randl@adelphia.net writes: > I'm thinking it must be a -Queen Margot- gown. Y'know, like the white one at > the end that her brother, the king, bleeds all over. > laurie > That film drove me nuts. Every sleeve was the same in a period ABOUT sleeves. Great fabrics though. --part1_7e.259cd009.29dfd451_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/5/2002 5:20:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, randl@adelphia.net writes:


I'm thinking it must be a -Queen Margot- gown. Y'know, like the white one at
the end that her brother, the king, bleeds all over.
laurie


That film drove me nuts. Every sleeve was the same in a period ABOUT sleeves. Great fabrics though. --part1_7e.259cd009.29dfd451_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Apr 6 04:30:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA02113 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 04:30:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g368PvX21418; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 01:25:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g368Pql04985; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 01:25:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g368Onl04823 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 01:24:49 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 17843 invoked by uid 0); 6 Apr 2002 08:24:41 -0000 Received: from p50801b5a.dip.t-dialin.net (HELO ?80.128.27.90?) (80.128.27.90) by mail.gmx.net (mp007-rz3) with SMTP; 6 Apr 2002 08:24:41 -0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 From: Cassandra Greer To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20020405172439.B8873@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Email not getting through Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 10:24:41 +0200 Status: RO HI All! This is a bit off topic but considering some of the side comments on spam... It is a good idea for each of us to have a back-up email provider: Why? Well, I found that here in Germany at least, people with AOL addresses cannot get my GMX mail and apparently they cannot get web.de mail either (this caused a lot of confusion and a bad evaluation with some of my ebay auctions where I sent many mails to various buyers and they claimed never to have heard from me). When I sent mail through mac.com they got the mail. Then I looked at that Spamcop thing and I realized that mail from any mail could be blocked at any particular time if it has been accused of letting spam through (if the target server has spam protection software of course). So when someone claims to not have received mail from you, try sending mail from a different email server and see if your message gets through. There are enough out there that are still free that it can't hurt us :))) I wish you all happy mailing! Cass :) > Does anyone have a phone # for Hat Matters? They have a shipment > ready to go out to me, but I have sent them email with my postal > address three times, and all I get are notes from them saying they > haven't gotten my address yet!! > > ...eliz > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Apr 6 10:10:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03260 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 10:10:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g36E68X00342; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 07:06:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g36E61l22486; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 07:06:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) id g36E4JK22169 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 07:04:19 -0700 (MST) From: Elizabeth Lear To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Email not getting through Message-ID: <20020406070419.B18640@net.indra.com> References: <20020405172439.B8873@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 07:04:19 -0700 Status: RO > So when someone claims to not have received mail from you, try sending mail > from a different email server and see if your message gets through. > Cass :) Good idea, thanks. I've tried remailing from another account, since it's still too early to call them in NV. :) ...eliz _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Apr 6 11:21:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA04632 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 11:21:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g36FH2X02732; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 08:17:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g36FH1l06951; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 08:17:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g36FGvl06934 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 08:16:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.133.149.124] (pm4-124.eos.net [205.133.149.124]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA19306 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 10:16:55 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200204051904.g35J40l02409@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: ebay "15th century" dress Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 10:09:54 -0500 Status: RO This looks like a custom-made wedding dress to me, with a couple of "period" details. I don't know that I could call it any particular period, so the seller probably just picked one. While I wouldn't buy it for a historic event, it would do very nicely for a wedding, prom, or fancy-dress party. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Apr 6 12:11:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05484 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 12:11:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g36G72X04628; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 09:07:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g36G70l17915; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 09:07:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r08.mx.aol.com (imo-r08.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.104]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g36G6Sl17787 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 09:06:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from LalahTT@aol.com by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.83.18f9c96c (4593) for ; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 11:06:17 -0500 (EST) From: LalahTT@aol.com Message-ID: <83.18f9c96c.29e076f9@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Museum Replica 15th Century Gown on eBay To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_83.18f9c96c.29e076f9_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10560 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 11:06:17 EST Status: RO --part1_83.18f9c96c.29e076f9_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I wrote the seller and asked if she might have written the 15th century when she meant 16th. She wrote back that it was an error and the gown is supposed to be 16th century. It isn't my period or style so I am not getting into the authenticity thing. However, I have noticed that people on this list do tend to take apart costume/garb/clothing being sold on eBay by people not on the list without asking questions of the seller. It is very easy to do. Just click on the "ask the seller a question" listing and eBay will send your message on. Why tear them apart behind their back when a simple question to the seller would answer you. Sorry if this offends anyone, but it is the second time I have requested an answer from the seller when I have seen something questioned among members of the list. The other list members probably don't know what the seller had in mind -- ask him or her and don't be so quick to criticize. Lalah Never Give up, Never Surrender, - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Looking for a great gift? Check out Beary Classy Bears at http://hometown.aol.com/bearyclassybears/myhomepage/sale.html --part1_83.18f9c96c.29e076f9_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit      I wrote the seller and asked if she might have written the 15th century when she meant 16th.  She wrote back that it was an error and the gown is supposed to be 16th century.  

      It isn't my period or style so I am not getting into the authenticity thing.  However, I have noticed that people on this list do tend to take apart costume/garb/clothing being sold on eBay by people not on the list without asking questions of the seller.  It is very easy to do.  Just click on the "ask the seller a question" listing and eBay will send your message on.  Why tear them apart behind their back when a simple question to the seller would answer you.

      Sorry if this offends anyone, but it is the second time I have requested an answer from the seller when I have seen something questioned among members of the list.  The other list members probably don't know what the seller had in mind -- ask him or her and don't be so quick to criticize.

Lalah
Never Give up, Never Surrender,
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Looking for a great gift?  Check out Beary Classy Bears at
http://hometown.aol.com/bearyclassybears/myhomepage/sale.html

--part1_83.18f9c96c.29e076f9_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Apr 6 13:58:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA05828 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 13:58:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g36HsBX08894; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 10:54:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g36Hs2l12193; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 10:54:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g36HrRl12050 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 10:53:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from dialup-209.246.104.27.dial1.newyork1.level3.net ([209.246.104.27] helo=earthlink.net) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16tuNR-0001uz-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 06 Apr 2002 09:53:26 -0800 Message-ID: <3CAF362A.7050609@earthlink.net> From: A F Murphy User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011128 Netscape6/6.2.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Museum Replica 15th Century Gown on eBay References: <83.18f9c96c.29e076f9@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 12:53:46 -0500 Status: RO But, Lalah, it doesn't look 16th century either... though that's a bit closer than 15th. It does look like a very pretty, probably well made modern bridesmaid or prom dress. I've deleted the original post, and am not looking at it now, so I'm not asking the seller questions myself, but... it might be interesting to ask what piece this is a replica of. In which museum. Since, IIRC, she is selling it as such, that should be a perfectly reasonable question. Then, the buyer can look at this and at the original and decide how accurate it is. And, of course, if there is no original piece, that raises other questions. Anne LalahTT@aol.com wrote: > I wrote the seller and asked if she might have written the 15th > century when she meant 16th. She wrote back that it was an error and > the gown is supposed to be 16th century. > > It isn't my period or style so I am not getting into the > authenticity thing. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Apr 6 14:03:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA05851 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 14:03:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g36Hx2X09037; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 10:59:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g36Hx1l13351; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 10:59:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g36HwHl13211 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 10:58:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.127.194]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GU500IYSR93CR@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 06 Apr 2002 09:58:16 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Museum Replica 15th Century Gown on eBay In-reply-to: <83.18f9c96c.29e076f9@aol.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020406091859.04fa7ce0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 09:58:11 -0800 Status: RO > I wrote the seller and asked if she might have written the 15th > century when she meant 16th. She wrote back that it was an error and the > gown is supposed to be 16th century. The seller thinks it's *supposed to be* 16th century, so we know historical costume is not her field. Which means the seller is telling us what she was told by the museum curator/dressmaker, or what the actual owner told her the curator/dressmaker said, and she's selling the dress for the owner. We can deduce that this curator/dressmaker isn't the curator of a costume museum. (For all we know they are the curator of a car museum.) So the mis-information starts there, and the seller/owner doesn't have the background knowledge not to believe what someone told them. > It isn't my period or style so I am not getting into the > authenticity thing. However, I have noticed that people on this list do > tend to take apart costume/garb/clothing being sold on eBay by people not > on the list without asking questions of the seller. It is very easy to > do. Just click on the "ask the seller a question" listing and eBay will > send your message on. Why tear them apart behind their back when a > simple question to the seller would answer you. > > Sorry if this offends anyone, but it is the second time I have > requested an answer from the seller when I have seen something questioned > among members of the list. The other list members probably don't know > what the seller had in mind -- ask him or her and don't be so quick to > criticize. > >Lalah >Never Give up, Never Surrender, >- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >Looking for a great gift? Check out Beary Classy Bears at >http://hometown.aol.com/bearyclassybears/myhomepage/sale.html Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Apr 6 15:20:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA06103 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 15:20:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g36JG4X12258; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 12:16:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g36JG1l00743; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 12:16:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f60.pav2.hotmail.com [64.4.37.60]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g36JFZl00661 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 12:15:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 11:15:30 -0800 Received: from 208.187.51.236 by pv2fd.pav2.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 06 Apr 2002 19:15:29 GMT X-Originating-IP: [208.187.51.236] From: "Jennifer Sena" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Apr 2002 19:15:30.0139 (UTC) FILETIME=[6A9E6AB0:01C1DD9F] Subject: [h-cost] Way OT--London Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 11:15:29 -0800 Status: RO Hi, I'm sorry for the space, but I need to get a copy of the fifth Harry Potter book for my daughter's birthday and this is the only place I've met anyone from London. If someone would be willing to price the book and postage for me I would send it to them in whatever form they need so that I can give my little fanatic what she really wants this year. Desperate Momma, Jennifer PS. my off list contact is distantdesigns@hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Apr 6 15:30:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA06134 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 15:30:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g36JQ2X12671; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 12:26:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g36JQ1l03041; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 12:26:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from carbon (carbon.btinternet.com [194.73.73.92]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g36JP5l02837 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 12:25:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-addr.btopenworld.com ([62.6.86.50] helo=dan) by carbon with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16tvo3-0002z0-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 06 Apr 2002 20:25:02 +0100 Message-ID: <001901c1dda0$e78455c0$3256063e@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: References: <83.18f9c96c.29e076f9@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Museum Replica 15th Century Gown on eBay MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 20:24:21 +0100 Status: RO Lalah wrote: > I wrote the seller and asked if she might have written the 15th > century when she meant 16th. She wrote back that it was an error and the > gown is supposed to be 16th century. > It isn't my period or style so I am not getting into the authenticity > thing. Yes, indeed. If you knew anything about the costume of the 16th century you would never have asked her if it was intended to be 16th century; it's blindingly obvious that it isn't, just as it's blindingly obvious that it's not 15th century. >However, I have noticed that people on this list do tend to take > apart costume/garb/clothing being sold on eBay by people not on the list > without asking questions of the seller. It is very easy to do. Just click > on the "ask the seller a question" listing and eBay will send your message > on. Why tear them apart behind their back when a simple question to the > seller would answer you. But, as I have noted above, your "simple question" isn't one which anyone knowing anything about the period would have asked. And, as is also obvious, the reply you obtained is no more accurate than the first description; it isn't an answer at all... best wishes Stevie Gamble _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Apr 6 17:33:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA06670 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 17:33:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g36LT6X23543; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 14:29:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g36LT1l08494; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 14:29:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m10.mx.aol.com (imo-m10.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.165]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g36LSWl07869 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 14:28:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from LalahTT@aol.com by imo-m10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.2d.1b234bfa (4426) for ; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 16:28:21 -0500 (EST) From: LalahTT@aol.com Message-ID: <2d.1b234bfa.29e0c275@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Museum Replica 15th Century Gown on eBay To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_2d.1b234bfa.29e0c275_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10560 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 16:28:21 EST Status: RO --part1_2d.1b234bfa.29e0c275_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit God, it must be good to be so perfect!!!!!! Lalah Never Give up, Never Surrender, - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Looking for a great gift? Check out Beary Classy Bears at http://hometown.aol.com/bearyclassybears/myhomepage/sale.html --part1_2d.1b234bfa.29e0c275_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit      God, it must be good to be so perfect!!!!!!

Lalah
Never Give up, Never Surrender,
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Looking for a great gift?  Check out Beary Classy Bears at
http://hometown.aol.com/bearyclassybears/myhomepage/sale.html

--part1_2d.1b234bfa.29e0c275_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Apr 6 22:24:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA07710 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 22:24:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g372K8X04706; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 19:20:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g372K0l16502; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 19:20:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g372Jpl16461 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 19:19:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from comcast.net (pcp234016pcs.elictc01.md.comcast.net [68.55.178.225]) by mtaout02.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built Feb 6 2002)) with ESMTP id <0GU6009MXEGYT3@mtaout02.icomcast.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 06 Apr 2002 21:19:46 -0500 (EST) From: Liz / Cozit To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <3CAFACC0.2EF6397E@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en References: <200204061901.g36J1hl27427@net.indra.com> Subject: [h-cost] Re: Museum Replicas Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: cozit@comcast.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 21:19:45 -0500 Status: RO Just a quick note. Part of the confusion on the Museum Replica gown that this group is having is because when she says "Museum Replica" she doesn't mean that someone took an authentic gown from a museum and reproduced it. Museum Replica is a company. A bunch, if not all of their clothing line bears little resemblance to what would have been worn in whatever historical frame they categorize it as. They *do* have some other products that aren't bad for re-enactors... and some other nifty neat stuff as well. Having said that... I have never dealt with that company, so even though I'll say it looks good, I have no idea whatsoever what their record is on delivery, quality, etc. is... good or bad. -Elisabeth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Apr 6 22:35:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA07749 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 22:35:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g372V2X05086; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 19:31:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g372V0l18621; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 19:31:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta01.chello.no (mta01.chello.no [212.186.255.12]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g372UYl18515 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 19:30:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from studorg.hiof.no ([213.46.219.102]) by mta01.chello.no (InterMail vK.4.04.00.00 201-232-137 license e49469e1064252e0c4d3b333458c6cb7) with ESMTP id <20020407023032.SNMP402.mta01@studorg.hiof.no> for ; Sun, 7 Apr 2002 04:30:32 +0200 Message-ID: <3CAFAFBC.3774B993@studorg.hiof.no> From: "Ingrid G. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Storr=F8?=" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [no] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: no MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Museum Replica 15th Century Gown on eBay References: <2d.1b234bfa.29e0c275@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 04:32:28 +0200 Status: RO LalahTT@aol.com skrev: > > God, it must be good to be so perfect!!!!!! Lalah, much as I respect your opinion, I think this is an unreasonably touchy reaction. (I'll assume you're responding to Stevie since you've not quoted anything in your post.) No offense intended. :) Although I can't claim to be an expert on either the 15th or 16th century, it's obvious to me that the dress in question is not a museum replica of a gown of either period (I will of course yield if the seller produces an original source). And that being the case, I can't see how the fault lies with someone knowledgeable enough to point that fact out to potential buyers - I'd have to say that a seller claiming to sell a period, museum replica standard gown is at fault if they're simply selling a pretty fantasy prom dress. The "what is OK to discuss on this list regarding ebay items" discussion is old, an seemingly fruitless. I'll urge anyone interested to check the archives and read through what has been said before on the subject before posting their opinion. In this case, less is more. :) Ingrid _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Apr 7 00:03:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA08362 for ; Sun, 7 Apr 2002 00:03:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g373x3X07989; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 20:59:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g373x1l07894; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 20:59:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g373w4l07710 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 20:58:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from [136.152.196.83] (as3-4-97.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.83]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.10.2) with ESMTP id g373w3P08733 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 19:58:03 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: [h-cost] Re: ebay "15th century" dress Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 11:13:35 -0800 Status: RO At 10:09 AM -0500 4/6/02, Gail & Scott Finke wrote: >This looks like a custom-made wedding dress to me, with a couple of "period" >details. I don't know that I could call it any particular period, so the >seller probably just picked one. While I wouldn't buy it for a historic >event, it would do very nicely for a wedding, prom, or fancy-dress party. That was my take on it, too, and I suspect the "15th century" thing is just the usual confusion between 15th century and 1500s. Basically, someone's selling off their medievaloid wedding dress. Nothing worth a big fuss. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Apr 7 00:47:19 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA08541 for ; Sun, 7 Apr 2002 00:47:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g374h1X09373; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 21:43:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g374h0l18342; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 21:43:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from barry.mail.mindspring.net (barry.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.25]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g374grl18312 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 21:42:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from user-2ivfoap.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.225.89] helo=[165.247.226.17]) by barry.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16u4Vs-0006dk-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 06 Apr 2002 23:42:48 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3CAFACC0.2EF6397E@comcast.net> References: <200204061901.g36J1hl27427@net.indra.com> <3CAFACC0.2EF6397E@comcast.net> To: h-costume@indra.com From: Chris Laning Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] Re: Museum Replica Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 20:19:54 -0800 Status: RO At 9:19 PM -0500 4/6/02, Liz / Cozit wrote: >Just a quick note. > >Part of the confusion on the Museum Replica gown that this group is >having is because when she says "Museum Replica" she doesn't mean >that someone took an authentic gown from a museum and reproduced it. Yes, the impression I get is that whatever it is she means by "replica", she isn't using it in the sense that we on this list tend to use it -- namely an exact copy of a real original garment from the time period in question. I have a feeling that this is where the misunderstanding lies. I would not be surprised to discover that some people use "replica" in a non-technical sense to mean "inspired by the style of...." a particular time period. Of course, this is not what the word _originally_ meant, but given what's been happening to the word "authentic" in advertising over the last ten years or so, it wouldn't be surprising. -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Apr 7 01:25:00 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA08647 for ; Sun, 7 Apr 2002 01:24:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g375L2X10697; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 22:21:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g375L0l27386; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 22:21:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m03.mx.aol.com (imo-m03.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.6]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g375Kll27343 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 22:20:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from Azelana@aol.com by imo-m03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 7.128.f71d746 (18708) for ; Sun, 7 Apr 2002 00:20:36 -0500 (EST) From: Azelana@aol.com Message-ID: <128.f71d746.29e13124@aol.com> To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 124 Subject: [h-cost] Re: the eBay dress Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 00:20:36 EST Status: RO << I wrote the seller and asked if she might have written the 15th century when she meant 16th. She wrote back that it was an error and the gown is supposed to be 16th century. >> Yes, I assumed that was the case, because she was probably thinking 1570ish and the number stuck in her head. Looking at the gown with that in mind... If the shoulders were pulled up to where the human arm starts, and a partlet and ruffs were added, I think we'd all see the historic connection better. Imagine the shoulders NOT slipping off the mannequin, and you'll see a marked similarity to portraits of Queen Elizabeth, where artists do not show the bodice having any straps. (Think Pelican Portrait here.) I recently toyed with just such an arrangement, but found it a complete hassle to wear; the shoulder rolls with attached sleeves kept slipping off, just like on the eBay mannequin. I considered buttoning or hook-n-eyeing to my partlet, but that pulled on my throat uncomfortably. So, I decided to investigate how it worked in period. My research so far suggests it simply didn't. Except in portraits of Elizabeth I, straps are usually included on the bodice in portraiture, and Janet Arnold reconstructions do have straps (actually a continuous part of the bodice) So, it is possible the Elizabeth I portraits are simply a case of iconography --just as she is shown to have impossibly small hands, or holding seives to show her "virginity." Back to the eBay dress: The lower sleeves are still too tight, and I think we all disagree with the color choice. I cannot tell if the skirt is cartridge-pleated either. It's definitely not knife-pletaed, which would be the other acceptable period method. Definitely needs to be worn with a partlet, because a dress so open in the neckline would be "indecent" without one. Thick figure 8 ruffs at neck and wrists would finish it. My $0.02, Gillian _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Apr 7 01:27:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA08656 for ; Sun, 7 Apr 2002 01:27:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g375O2X10832; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 22:24:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g375O1l28097; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 22:24:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m04.mx.aol.com (imo-m04.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.7]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g375NWl27993 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 22:23:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.195.4ec5d5f (4397) for ; Sun, 7 Apr 2002 00:23:21 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <195.4ec5d5f.29e131c9@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Museum Replica 15th Century Gown on eBay To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_195.4ec5d5f.29e131c9_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10560 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 00:23:21 EST Status: RO --part1_195.4ec5d5f.29e131c9_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/6/2002 4:30:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, LalahTT@aol.com writes: > > God, it must be good to be so perfect!!!!!! > > Lalah > Never Give up, Never Surrender, > Oh it is, Honey, it is! Seriously, c'mon! The seller wants to sell it. She doesn't CARE if it's 15th or 16th or 23rd century. Why she would describe it wrongly may be because she was told a fib too, but that's no excuse for false advertising. I mean "Museum replica"? It's like putting a Halloween Batman costume up for auction and declaring it an original from the film....or something. Would you have such sympathy for that seller? It sounds like you gave up and surrendered. Lighten up! None of us were very harsh, just truthful. --part1_195.4ec5d5f.29e131c9_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/6/2002 4:30:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, LalahTT@aol.com writes:



    God, it must be good to be so perfect!!!!!!

Lalah
Never Give up, Never Surrender,


Oh it is, Honey, it is!

Seriously, c'mon! The seller wants to sell it. She doesn't CARE if it's 15th or 16th or 23rd century. Why she would describe it wrongly may be because she was told a fib too, but that's no excuse for false advertising. I mean "Museum replica"? It's like putting a Halloween Batman costume up for auction and declaring it an original from the film....or something. Would you have such sympathy for that seller?

It sounds like you gave up and surrendered. Lighten up! None of us were very harsh, just truthful. --part1_195.4ec5d5f.29e131c9_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Apr 7 01:31:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA08678 for ; Sun, 7 Apr 2002 01:31:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g375R1X10941; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 22:27:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g375R1l28865; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 22:27:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f169.law12.hotmail.com [64.4.19.169]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g375P2l28361 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 22:25:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 21:24:53 -0800 Received: from 63.12.14.123 by lw12fd.law12.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 07 Apr 2002 05:24:53 GMT X-Originating-IP: [63.12.14.123] From: "Rebecca Anderson" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Apr 2002 05:24:53.0937 (UTC) FILETIME=[8C573A10:01C1DDF4] Subject: [h-cost] RE: Museum Replica 15th Century Gown on eBay Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 14:54:53 +0930 Status: RO
I think it looks a bit like the gowns in Queen Margot, which i've been watching recently.
Can anyone tell me how accurate the costumes are, the mens look ok to me but I'm not too sure about the women's.
Rebecca Anderson
aka
Lady Adele Anders
 
>I just saw this dress on eBay.
>I think it looks strange for a 15th century replica.
 
>C'mon! You remember all those Elizabethan off the shoulder gowns with a cage crinoline >under them, don't you? Looks like a fancy party dress from the "Shakespeare in Love" era. >It's really not a bad looking gown, but museum replica it ain't!

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_______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Apr 7 01:36:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA08688 for ; Sun, 7 Apr 2002 01:36:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g375W1X11154; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 22:32:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g375W1l00133; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 22:32:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g375Vwl00119 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 22:31:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.e4.259e3753 (4397) for ; Sun, 7 Apr 2002 00:31:48 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: the eBay dress To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_e4.259e3753.29e133c3_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10560 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 00:31:47 EST Status: RO --part1_e4.259e3753.29e133c3_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/7/2002 12:22:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, Azelana@aol.com writes: > . My research so far suggests it simply > didn't. My research shows that armseyes were much much tighter than today and a very snug armseye will hold up a sleeve. Plus I think those big brocade fabrics were much lighter silks than the upholstery brocades one might use today. Back to the eBay dress: The lower sleeves are still too tight, and I think we all disagree with the color choice. I cannot tell if the skirt is cartridge-pleated either. It's definitely not knife-pletaed, which would be the other acceptable period method. Color doesn't bother me, but the bodice decoration is not period at all. --part1_e4.259e3753.29e133c3_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/7/2002 12:22:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, Azelana@aol.com writes:


.  My research so far suggests it simply
didn't.


My research shows that armseyes were much much tighter than today and a very snug armseye will hold up a sleeve. Plus I think those big brocade fabrics were much lighter silks than the upholstery brocades one might use today.

Back to the eBay dress:  The lower sleeves are still too tight, and I think
we all disagree with the color choice.  I cannot tell if the skirt is
cartridge-pleated either.  It's definitely not knife-pletaed, which would be
the other acceptable period method.

Color doesn't bother me, but the bodice decoration is not period at all. --part1_e4.259e3753.29e133c3_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Apr 7 01:38:19 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA08696 for ; Sun, 7 Apr 2002 01:38:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g375Y1X11220; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 22:34:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g375Y1l00686; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 22:34:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-d10.mx.aol.com (imo-d10.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.42]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g375XIl00463 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 22:33:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.5a.9789da9 (4397) for ; Sun, 7 Apr 2002 00:33:01 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <5a.9789da9.29e1340c@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Museum Replica 15th Century Gown on eBay To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_5a.9789da9.29e1340c_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10560 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 00:33:00 EST Status: RO --part1_5a.9789da9.29e1340c_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/7/2002 12:27:32 AM Eastern Standard Time, lady_adele@hotmail.com writes: > I think it looks a bit like the gowns in Queen Margot, which i've been > watching recently. > Can anyone tell me how accurate the costumes are, > Not very. Good fabrics though. --part1_5a.9789da9.29e1340c_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/7/2002 12:27:32 AM Eastern Standard Time, lady_adele@hotmail.com writes:


I think it looks a bit like the gowns in Queen Margot, which i've been watching recently.
Can anyone tell me how accurate the costumes are,


Not very.

Good fabrics though. --part1_5a.9789da9.29e1340c_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Apr 7 01:42:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA08713 for ; Sun, 7 Apr 2002 01:42:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g375b1X11324; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 22:37:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g375b1l01353; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 22:37:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com (imo-m02.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.5]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g375aGl01232 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 22:36:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.147.c73442b (4397) for ; Sun, 7 Apr 2002 00:36:09 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <147.c73442b.29e134c9@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Museum Replica To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_147.c73442b.29e134c9_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10560 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 00:36:09 EST Status: RO --part1_147.c73442b.29e134c9_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en In a message dated 4/6/2002 11:43:24 PM Eastern Standard Time,=20 claning@igc.org writes: > I would not be surprised to discover that some people use "replica"=20 > in a non-technical sense to mean "inspired by the style of...." Nonsense! Here's the dictionary definition....nothing "technical" about it. Main Entry: rep=C2=B7li=C2=B7ca Pronunciation: 're-pli-k& Function: noun Etymology: Italian, repetition, from replicare to repeat, from Late Latin,=20 from Latin, to fold back =E2=80=94more at REPLY=20 Date: 1824 1 : an exact reproduction (as of a painting) executed by the original artist= < a replica of this was painted=E2=80=A6 this year =E2=80=94Constance Strachey= >=20 2 : a copy exact in all details ; broadly : COPY =20 --part1_147.c73442b.29e134c9_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en In a message dated 4/6/2002=20= 11:43:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, claning@igc.org writes:


I would not be surprised to= discover that some people use "replica"=20
in a non-technical sense to mean "inspired by the style of...."


Nonsense! Here's the dictionary definition....nothing "technical" about=20= it.

Main Entry: rep=C2=B7li=C2=B7ca
Pronunciation: 're-pli-k&
Function: noun
Etymology: Italian, repetition, from replicare to repeat,=20= from Late Latin, from Latin, to fold back =E2=80=94more at REPLY=20
Date: 1824
1 : an exact reproduction (as of a painting) executed by the orig= inal artist <a replica of this was painted=E2=80=A6 this year =E2= =80=94Constance Strachey>=20
2 : a copy exact in all details <DNA makes a replica of= itself> <sailed a replica of the Viking ship>; broadly : COPY= <this faithful, pathetic replica of a Midwestern suburb =E2=80= =94G. F. Kennan>=20
--part1_147.c73442b.29e134c9_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Apr 7 01:55:59 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA08731 for ; Sun, 7 Apr 2002 01:55:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g375q2X11706; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 22:52:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g375q1l04523; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 22:52:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f158.law12.hotmail.com [64.4.19.158]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g375o2l04110 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 22:50:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 21:49:56 -0800 Received: from 63.12.14.123 by lw12fd.law12.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 07 Apr 2002 05:49:56 GMT X-Originating-IP: [63.12.14.123] From: "Rebecca Anderson" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Apr 2002 05:49:56.0872 (UTC) FILETIME=[0C28E880:01C1DDF8] Subject: [h-cost] middle and lowerclass mens clothing Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 15:19:56 +0930 Status: RO

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com.
_______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Apr 7 16:52:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA16868 for ; Sun, 7 Apr 2002 16:52:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g37JmEX11559; Sun, 7 Apr 2002 13:48:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g37Jm1l03380; Sun, 7 Apr 2002 13:48:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pimout3-int.prodigy.net (pimout3-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.102]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g37JkAl02952 for ; Sun, 7 Apr 2002 13:46:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ccc (65-45-136-120-tam-01.cvx.algx.net [65.45.136.120]) by pimout3-int.prodigy.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id g37Jk9L147214 for ; Sun, 7 Apr 2002 15:46:09 -0400 Message-ID: <037101c1de6d$ee377d20$78882d41@ccc> From: "Heather" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] metric measurements MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 15:53:45 -0400 Status: RO Does anyone know the size of the ones used in Africa? I recently got a used cookbook that was released in Africa. Moira ----- Original Message ----- From: "Meliora" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 5:47 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] metric measurements > > A teaspoon is 5 ml, and a tablespoon is 15 ml (per my medication > > instructor). But since flatware is not accurate, you need to use actual > > measuring spoons to get it right. > > -Megan > > (that nursing school stuff actually coming in handy on a costume list??) > > However in Australia, a Tablespoon is 20ml. Something I always have to > remember about when cooking from US or English recipes. > > Regards > Meliora. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Apr 7 19:17:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA17629 for ; Sun, 7 Apr 2002 19:17:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g37MD5X17389; Sun, 7 Apr 2002 16:13:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g37MD1l05968; Sun, 7 Apr 2002 16:13:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f12.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.12]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g37M8Yl04931 for ; Sun, 7 Apr 2002 16:08:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 7 Apr 2002 15:08:28 -0700 Received: from 172.134.207.154 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 07 Apr 2002 22:08:28 GMT X-Originating-IP: [172.134.207.154] From: "Lauren Tapia" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Apr 2002 22:08:28.0430 (UTC) FILETIME=[BEF9B2E0:01C1DE80] Subject: [h-cost] New to the list with a question Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 16:08:28 -0600 Status: RO Hi all, I'm new to the list. I am actively involved in Art of Costuming, within the SCA, and am currently doing some research. I maintain a spanish persona, roughly around 1515 - 1600 (which is the period that I dress). By any chance does anyone know of some decent Spanish fashion research that would perhaps aid me in the right direction? I'm finding this a bit frustrating, for I am finding mostly English costume research. Though I know English fashions were sometimes inspired by Spanish. Any assistance is helpful. Isabella "The One in search of a vision" _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Apr 7 19:57:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA17792 for ; Sun, 7 Apr 2002 19:57:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g37Mr5X19236; Sun, 7 Apr 2002 16:53:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g37Mr2l14979; Sun, 7 Apr 2002 16:53:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (oe72.pav0.hotmail.com [64.4.33.214]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g37Modl14347 for ; Sun, 7 Apr 2002 16:50:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 7 Apr 2002 15:50:34 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [67.226.28.209] From: "Gia Gavino" To: "Costume List" Subject: Re: [h-cost] New to the list with a question MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MSN Explorer 7.00.0021.1900 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0002_01C1DE4B.ED736240" Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Apr 2002 22:50:34.0341 (UTC) FILETIME=[A0892150:01C1DE86] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 15:50:23 -0700 Status: RO ------=_NextPart_001_0002_01C1DE4B.ED736240 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ruth M Anderson's, "Hispanic Costume 1480-1530" is a little early, but ja= mmed packed with much information. Also, if I am remembering my Spain/Italy (modern usage for geographic pur= poses) political climate, there were alliances, marriages, etc., there ma= y be quite a bit of information via some italian sources. The reason I like Hispanic Costume, even though my persona is italian ren= , about the same period as you, is because you get an *extensive* history= of who did what, when and why that impacts many things. =20 You might want to read some biographies on some of the Popes, some of the= m either were from Spain or retained 'Staff' (what's the word I want??? H= ousehold?) that retained their Spanish customs and or attire. =20 I'm sorry I can't really give you more titles, since a majority of my boo= ks are in storage (Aaahhhhgrrrr!!!), this may get you started. Fred has = the Hispanic Costume book listed in his little catalog. His email is fsb= ks@msn.org Gee, I hope this helped!! Gia/Giacinta I'm new to the list. I am actively involved in Art of Costuming, within t= he SCA, and am currently doing some research. I maintain a spanish persona, roughly around 1515 - 1600 (which is the period that I dress). By any chance does anyone know of some decent Spani= sh fashion research that would perhaps aid me in the right direction? I'm finding this a bit frustrating, for I am finding mostly English costume research. Though I know English fashions were sometimes inspired by Spani= sh. Any assistance is helpful. Isabella "The One in search of a vision" ------=_NextPart_001_0002_01C1DE4B.ED736240 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ruth M An= derson's, "Hispanic Costume 1480-1530" is a little early, but jammed pack= ed with much information.
 
Also, if I am reme= mbering my Spain/Italy (modern usage for geographic purposes) political c= limate, there were alliances, marriages, etc., there may be quite a bit o= f information via some italian sources.
 
The = reason I like Hispanic Costume, even though my persona is italian ren, ab= out the same period as you, is because you get an *extensive* history of = who did what, when and why that impacts many things. 
&nb= sp;
You might want to read some biographies on some of the Pop= es, some of them either were from Spain or retained 'Staff' (what's the w= ord I want??? Household?) that retained their Spanish customs and or atti= re. 
 
I'm sorry I can't really give you= more titles, since a majority of my books are in storage (Aaahhhhgrrrr!!= !), this may get you started.  Fred has the Hispanic Costu= me book listed in his little catalog.  His email is fsbks@msn.org
 
Gee,= I hope this helped!!
Gia/Giacinta

I'm new to the list. I am actively= involved in Art of Costuming, within the
SCA, and am currently doing = some research.

I maintain a spanish persona, roughly around 1515 -= 1600 (which is the
period that I dress). By any chance does anyone kn= ow of some decent Spanish
fashion research that would perhaps aid me i= n the right direction? I'm
finding this a bit frustrating, for I am fi= nding mostly English costume
research. Though I know English fashions = were sometimes inspired by Spanish.


Any assistance is helpful.=



Isabella
"The One in search of a vision"

------=_NextPart_001_0002_01C1DE4B.ED736240-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Apr 7 22:16:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA18380 for ; Sun, 7 Apr 2002 22:16:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g381D5X25366; Sun, 7 Apr 2002 19:13:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g381CGl16075; Sun, 7 Apr 2002 19:12:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dc-mx07.cluster1.charter.net (dc-mx07.cluster0.hsacorp.net [209.225.8.17]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3819dl15527 for ; Sun, 7 Apr 2002 19:09:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [66.188.127.221] (HELO laptop) by dc-mx07.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.3) with SMTP id 35368978 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 07 Apr 2002 21:23:57 -0400 Message-ID: <002c01c1de9a$12c7d320$dd7fbc42@mad.chartermi.net> From: "Rebecca Schmitt" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] New to the list with a question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 20:09:45 -0500 Status: RO Welcome! Have you checked out Juan Alcega's book of patterns? It is a book from a Spanish tailor (1580ish if I remember correctly) that at least gives the shapes of the pattern pieces for various pieces of clothing. You might want to try and get ahold of a copy. ********************** Rebecca Schmitt aka Mistress Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot, cod merchant of Bristol, BRF FOF So many books, so little time lotsofteapots@charter.net ********************** > > I maintain a spanish persona, roughly around 1515 - 1600 (which is the > period that I dress). By any chance does anyone know of some decent Spanish > fashion research that would perhaps aid me in the right direction? I'm > finding this a bit frustrating, for I am finding mostly English costume > research. Though I know English fashions were sometimes inspired by Spanish. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 8 00:16:59 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA18814 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 00:16:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g383D9X00580; Sun, 7 Apr 2002 21:13:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g383D2l12472; Sun, 7 Apr 2002 21:13:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g383Arl12014 for ; Sun, 7 Apr 2002 21:10:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default.attbi.com ([24.245.40.181]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020408031047.TRS18078.rwcrmhc51.attbi.com@default.attbi.com> for ; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 03:10:47 +0000 Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20020407220346.02997580@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: dannw@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Subject: Re: [h-cost] 14th century Italian costuming In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 22:04:27 -0500 Status: RO There is also a Yahoo groups for Italian personas you might want to try and track down. Cheers, Danielle At 01:00 PM 4/5/2002 -0500, you wrote: >Try the SCA-Garb list at Yahoo! groups. I was on it for a short while, >but couldn't keep up with the nearly 50 messages a day. It's a very >active list, but from what I saw, rarely does it stray off-topic. When I >was on it (6 months ago?), there were several ladies doing Italian. (Not >particularly my period of interest, so I didn't pay much attention to what >period.) > >Perhaps you could join, but with your preferences set to no-mail, and just >browse the archives to find info/people with your interests. > Parsla > >>From: "Colleen McDonald" >> >> >>Hello all, >> >>I'm busily researching away on 14th century Italian ladies costuming and >>I was wondering if there are others out there on the list that are also >>researching this topic. I would love to find a few others to chat with >>(offline) about sources, fabrics, what's working, and what's not. >> >>Best regards, >> >>Colleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 8 02:33:14 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA14662 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 02:33:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g385T4X06159; Sun, 7 Apr 2002 23:29:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g385T1l12217; Sun, 7 Apr 2002 23:29:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.ihug.co.nz (root@smtp2.ihug.co.nz [203.109.252.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g385Srl12193 for ; Sun, 7 Apr 2002 23:28:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from user (p237-nas7.akl.ihug.co.nz [203.173.217.237]) by smtp2.ihug.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id RAA17448 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 17:28:49 +1200 X-Authentication-Warning: smtp2.ihug.co.nz: Host p237-nas7.akl.ihug.co.nz [203.173.217.237] claimed to be user Message-ID: <004c01c1debd$ebeabfa0$edd9adcb@user> From: "michaela" To: References: Subject: impossible sleeves was Re: [h-cost] Re: the eBay dress MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 17:26:18 +1200 Status: RO > My research shows that armseyes were much much tighter than today and a very > snug armseye will hold up a sleeve. Plus I think those big brocade fabrics > were much lighter silks than the upholstery brocades one might use today. Just because I don't intend debating the dress in question.. just me and in no way impuning anyone who does;) Anyway, this type of nearly off the shoulder arrangement appears also in german garb, which is one of my big passions, and people have engineered their recreations to get that effct.. but with difficulty. In latter Elizabethan dress is that the front does not necessarily look the same as the back. I mean if you have a high back that takes most of the weight/strain of the sleeves. In Period Costumes for the Stage and Screen the bodices have a v neck arrangement in back which works well for my 1/4 scale doll. And having only really seen one back of an English costume from the 16thC (Holbein), which has this higher v neck arrangement, it is at least a viable option. And with Hunniset most likely using that arrangement in her BBC work, it is likely that it works on a full size replica. Blackadder II has very high back necklines to support the ruffs and sleeves of the female characters too, but they are very high indeed. And of course the inner structure of the top of the sleeve might help too. And then of course the original supposition that the artist was improving on what was really there is more than possible, and likely to whatever degree seems feasible. michaela _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 8 08:57:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA15824 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 08:57:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g38Bs4X16272; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 05:54:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g38Bs0l14454; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 05:54:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g38BkZl12585 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 05:46:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KGBL1P9QHS00ZD7U@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 08 Apr 2002 12:49:12 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk ([158.94.56.3]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KGBL1O432O011HBG@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 08 Apr 2002 12:49:11 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Mon, 08 Apr 2002 12:45:54 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Mon, 08 Apr 2002 12:45:04 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.77) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Mon, 08 Apr 2002 12:44:56 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dictionary definition...(Was: Museum Replica) In-reply-to: <200204070554.g375sul05149@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8DED95409F9@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 12:44:56 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > > I would not be surprised to discover that some people use > > "replica"=20 in a non-technical sense to mean "inspired by the style > > of...." > > Nonsense! Here's the dictionary definition....nothing "technical" > about it. Unfortunately, just because it's defined that way in the dictionary doesn't mean that it is the way it is meant in current usage... just that the current usage hasn't been happing often enough for the dictionary definition to have been changed. Many people adopt words/terms into their vocabulary because they have encountered them when other people use them - and they apply them in the same way (or similar ways, that's how meanings drift) to the way they have seen/heard them used... they never bother looking up the dictionary definition because they assume the "common" meaning of it that they have picked up from the context it was used in is the actual definition/meaning of the term and that they, in turn, are usuing it correctly. Which is way too wordy a way of saying, language and use of terminology evolves and changes quicker than dictionary definitions do. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 8 11:30:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA16232 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 11:30:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g38ER2X23633; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 08:27:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g38ER0l00799; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 08:27:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g38EB1l24865 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 08:11:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Mayfair13a@aol.com by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.1ac.593fcd (4200) for ; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 10:10:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Mayfair13a@aol.com Message-ID: <1ac.593fcd.29e2fee5@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dictionary definition...(Was: Museum Replica) To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 121 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 10:10:45 EDT Status: RO Could someone please tell me how to unsubscribe? Thank You, Pasha _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 8 11:47:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA16330 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 11:47:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g38Ei1X25168; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 08:44:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g38Ei0l08383; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 08:44:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ashd1-1.relay.mail.uu.net (ashd1-1.relay.mail.uu.net [199.171.54.245]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g38EZsl04592 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 08:35:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pop.net by mr0.ash.ops.us.uu.net with ESMTP (peer crosschecked as: bristol.maxson.com [199.170.3.8]) id QQmjsc11718 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 14:35:53 GMT Message-ID: <3CB1AAC9.ECB683FB@pop.net> From: Jessica Wilbur X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] 14th century Italian costuming References: <5.0.0.25.2.20020407220346.02997580@mail.attbi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 10:35:53 -0400 Status: RO Danielle Nunn-Weinberg wrote: > > There is also a Yahoo groups for Italian personas you might want to try and > track down. > > Cheers, > Danielle It is called ItalianPersona (go figure ). Lots of great folks, good info, especially on costuming. --Jessica (now known in the SCA as Giuliana Salviati) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 8 12:04:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA16407 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 12:04:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g38F16X26739; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 09:01:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g38F10l16155; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 09:01:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [195.194.177.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g38Ei7l08445 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 08:44:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from csv6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA06289.; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 15:52:11 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by csv6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 08 Apr 2002 15:43:24 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.1 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Unsubscribing, was Dictionary definition...(Was: Museum Replica) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g38Ei7l08445 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 15:43:01 +0100 Status: RO Click on the link at the bottom and scroll right down the page! Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> Mayfair13a@aol.com 04/08/02 03:10pm >>> Could someone please tell me how to unsubscribe? Thank You, Pasha _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 8 13:12:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16722 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 13:12:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g38G9AX03760; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 10:09:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g38G96l22808; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 10:09:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from watchman.propagation.net ([63.249.230.111]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g38Fqrl13723 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 09:52:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumemag.com (co-trinidad1c-155.lbrlks.adelphia.net [24.49.6.155]) by watchman.propagation.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA21914 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 10:51:17 -0500 Message-ID: <3CB1BFE1.56087B86@costumemag.com> From: Mary Denise Smith X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-NSCPCD (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Outlands Costume Collegium - a great event Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 10:05:56 -0600 Status: RO Greetings Costumers! The fifth Outlands Costume Collegium (held in Trinidad, Colorado) is now history, and all you folks who weren't there missed a fine event. I wish to heap praise and thanks upon the following people for their hard work and stellar results: Kuroteria Eirene Tzmiskina Kontostephanina (mka Melanie Unruh-Bays) for scheduling the classes, and for doing the Proceedings. There are copies of the Proceedings available from her, both in hard copy and on CD. Email Eirene at for more information. THL Arwen Southernwood (mka Sheila McClune) for the GREAT eats. Participants at Costume Collegium were treated to breakfast and lunch both days and a wonderful reception on Saturday night. THL Arwen did most of the cooking herself, ably assisted by THL Rivka (mka Michelle Brothers). The food was so good, there were hardly any leftovers! Maestra Beatricia Caramela Mercante (mka Linda Haffner) for organizing a fine exhibit of clothing and accessories. I also want to thank each and every one of the people who went through the hassle of transporting and setting up and breaking down and transporting stuff for this exhibit. The area was so crammed that we spilled down off the stage onto the floor space in the Little Theater. GOOD JOB! Lady Kiara Loftus (mka Therese Hofheins-Losh) for (once again) performing like a champ as Crisis Manager. As with any event, there were things that we just couldn't fix, but those that COULD get fixed were done ably, quietly and efficiently by Lady Kiara. No one should run any kind of event without a Crisis Manager (aka a S***-o-crat), and she is the best. She fixes things before you know they are broke! Our teachers from out of Kingdom: Special Guest Robin Netherton. Robin came from St. Louis to present 3 different papers and slide shows that were guaranteed to cause us to look at reproducing clothing from the Middle Ages in a entirely different light. She did this with wit and charm, and we all came away with a new perspective. I want the Outlands to know that Robin helped Costume Collegium greatly with her flexibility and grace under pressure. If ever any of you see an event with Robin Netherton on the bill - be there. Lord Diarmaid O'Duinn and Mistress Dunstana Talana the Violet (mka Marc and Jennifer Carlson). These folks drove from Tulsa to present classes and to brighten our event with their wit and grace. I only heard one complaint (the same complaint from several sources) - Dairmaid's class wasn't LONG enough! Well, we can fix THAT if/when we get them back here from Ansteorra. Mistress Katrei Grunenberg (mka Marcia Schlemm) flew from Kansas City to teach block patterning and to participate in the Walk Through History as ONLY SHE can! For those who wondered why Katrei and I missed our own party Saturday evening - Katrei tripped and fell, breaking a bone in her hand. So she and I got to spend an evening in fine conversation at the local ER, but we missed Arwen's treats so we ended up at my house having turkey soup with bow-tie macaroni. Howwzat for a period dinner! THLady Rouge Du Mauier (mka Linette Barnes) and her husband Tom drove from Caid to teach and to sell their FABULOUS trims and supplies for metal thread embroidery. I am thrilled to report that her class was VERY well attended and that at break times the crowd around the sales tables was sometimes 3 deep! We hope to invite THL Rouge back soon for more lessons in metal thread embroidery. Of course, guest speakers alone do not an event make, so high praise and thanks go to each and every one of the Outlanders who so graciously shared their knowledge and skills with us at Outlands Costume Collegium. My special thanks go to those instructors (and you know who you are) who stepped in on a moments notice to fill a gap. And to every single one of the folks who showed off their duds in the Walk Through History - you were stunning! Did you notice you were being video taped? Finally, my very personal thanks go to Their Excellencies Baron Kerold Hoegaarden, Baroness Chiara della Luna from Caerthe (Denver) and Baroness Fermina Caballo from Al-Barran (Albuquerque) for their memorial comments about Mistress Kiriel. So all in all, my thanks go out to everyone who attended the fifth Outlands Costume Collegium, whether they helped run it, or just sat back and enjoyed the ride. On to NEXT year! YIS, Lady Marged Tylluan Fach mka Mary Denise Smith PS: Special thanks to the "guys" who took the challenge to discuss "When Men Do Costume". _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 8 13:53:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA20972 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 13:53:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g38GnrX08889; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 10:49:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g38Gnkl16863; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 10:49:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [195.194.177.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g38DXhl13303 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 07:33:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from csv6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA01304.; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 14:41:58 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by csv6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 08 Apr 2002 14:33:10 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.1 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Caul Question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g38DXhl13303 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 14:32:35 +0100 Status: RO Mike, the cap worn with a forehead cloth is a coif. A caul is a baglike headdress, often worn at the back of the head with the hair inside it. Sheila, Drea's site says that they could be made of any fancy material, presumably of any colour, as well as plain linen. I think of them as typically displaying a network design, so interwoven ribbon would look good. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> mikes@dandy.net 04/05/02 05:33am >>> Hi, Sheila. I haven't been over to Drea's for a while now. What piece of headgear is the caul again? If you are referring to either a cap and/or forehead cloth, there are many extant ones out there with polychrome embroidery, metallic lace and spangles. I couldn't speak for either ribbon or beads, as I can't remember ever seeing either an extant one or one from a painting, etc. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 8 13:54:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA20976 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 13:54:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g38GoPX09009; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 10:50:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g38GoNl17279; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 10:50:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g38Eqfl12143 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 08:52:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m193.in-tch.com [216.166.191.193]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g38EdAj00991 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 08:39:10 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3CB1AF9E.82E69756@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dictionary definition...(Was: Museum Replica) References: <1ac.593fcd.29e2fee5@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 08:56:30 -0600 Status: RO Answered privately. --sue Mayfair13a@aol.com wrote: > > Could someone please tell me how to unsubscribe? > > Thank You, > > Pasha > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 8 13:58:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA20993 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 13:58:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g38GsgX09521; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 10:54:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g38Gsbl19795; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 10:54:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g38Gb9l09748 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 10:37:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comcast.net (pcp670884pcs.indpnd01.mo.comcast.net [68.34.234.170]) by mtaout01.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built Feb 6 2002)) with ESMTP id <0GU9008LOCTR8T@mtaout01.icomcast.net> for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Mon, 08 Apr 2002 12:37:03 -0400 (EDT) From: "Linda J. Thompson" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Message-id: <3CB1C7A4.8080207@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 Subject: [h-cost] no digest since saturday? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 11:39:00 -0500 Status: RO Has it been exceptionally slow, I have not received any digest since saturday. -- Linda Thompson Visit www.seams-to-be.com where Attitude is Everything _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 8 14:24:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA21126 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 14:24:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g38HKQX12834; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 11:20:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g38HKEl04845; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 11:20:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g381RFl19311 for ; Sun, 7 Apr 2002 19:27:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a23.in-tch.com [66.62.107.3]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g381Etj01224 for ; Sun, 7 Apr 2002 19:14:55 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3CB0F319.6129D900@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Museum Replica 15th Century Gown on eBay References: <2d.1b234bfa.29e0c275@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 19:32:09 -0600 Status: RO No one's perfect, Lalah, not even on this list . However, a lot of people are quite knowledgable, and there is nothing wrong with that. I happened to think the dress was very pretty, and someone obviously went to a LOT of work with it. But a museum replica it was not, and 15th c. it also was not, not in style, not in choice of fabrics (IIRC, it used silk noile), not in the decoration. Pretty, but NOT what was advertised. --Sue LalahTT@aol.com wrote: > > God, it must be good to be so perfect!!!!!! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 8 14:24:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA21130 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 14:24:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g38HLAX13003; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 11:21:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g38HL5l05410; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 11:21:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g381a8l21184 for ; Sun, 7 Apr 2002 19:36:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a23.in-tch.com [66.62.107.3]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g381Nlj03149 for ; Sun, 7 Apr 2002 19:23:47 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3CB0F52D.8CD80B06@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] 14th century Italian costuming References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 19:41:01 -0600 Status: RO I'm on that list, as well as Colleen, and as far as I can recall, without checking my stash of saved messages, all of the people posting things about Italian clothing are doing things later than 14th c. (mostly 15th, and some 16th). I think I've actually seen more concerning the 14th c. on _this_ list.... --sue Parsla Liepa wrote: > > Try the SCA-Garb list at Yahoo! groups. I was on it for a short while, but > couldn't keep up with the nearly 50 messages a day. It's a very active > list, but from what I saw, rarely does it stray off-topic. When I was on it > (6 months ago?), there were several ladies doing Italian. (Not particularly > my period of interest, so I didn't pay much attention to what period.) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 8 17:22:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA21880 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 17:22:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g38KIgX03093; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 14:18:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g38KIM221585; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 14:18:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.88]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g38K4m207447 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 14:04:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 16ufNe-000HHY-0U for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 08 Apr 2002 21:04:47 +0100 Message-ID: To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: impossible sleeves was Re: [h-cost] Re: the eBay dress References: <004c01c1debd$ebeabfa0$edd9adcb@user> In-Reply-To: <004c01c1debd$ebeabfa0$edd9adcb@user> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 18:39:16 +0100 Status: RO I skipped all the earlier debate, having no interest in eBay. Obviously I missed something! Anyway, I have made my early Tudor dress with this arrangement, a wide square neck at the front and a V at the back, with the sleeves and armscye as tight as I could manage. It works very well, and I never have to twitch the shoulders up. (My original Tudor dress, made from an Oxfam party dress altered to have the V back, had to have a strap across the shoulders to stop it falling off. Made for very interesting sunburn) Jean michaela wrote >> My research shows that armseyes were much much tighter than today and a >very >> snug armseye will hold up a sleeve. Plus I think those big brocade fabrics >> were much lighter silks than the upholstery brocades one might use today. > >Just because I don't intend debating the dress in question.. just me and in >no way impuning anyone who does;) > >Anyway, this type of nearly off the shoulder arrangement appears also in >german garb, which is one of my big passions, and people have engineered >their recreations to get that effct.. but with difficulty. > >In latter Elizabethan dress is that the front does not necessarily look the >same as the back. I mean if you have a high back that takes most of the >weight/strain of the sleeves. In Period Costumes for the Stage and Screen >the bodices have a v neck arrangement in back which works well for my 1/4 >scale doll. And having only really seen one back of an English costume from >the 16thC (Holbein), which has this higher v neck arrangement, it is at >least a viable option. And with Hunniset most likely using that arrangement >in her BBC work, it is likely that it works on a full size replica. >Blackadder II has very high back necklines to support the ruffs and sleeves >of the female characters too, but they are very high indeed. > >And of course the inner structure of the top of the sleeve might help too. > >And then of course the original supposition that the artist was improving on >what was really there is more than possible, and likely to whatever degree >seems feasible. > >michaela > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 8 19:38:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA22435 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 19:38:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g38MZ7X23057; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 16:35:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g38MZ4222018; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 16:35:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pimout6-int.prodigy.net (pimout6-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.99]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g38MM4205190 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 16:22:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ccc (65-45-136-146-tam-01.cvx.algx.net [65.45.136.146]) by pimout6-int.prodigy.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id g38MM2N128252 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 18:22:02 -0400 Message-ID: <001f01c1df4c$e1c558c0$92882d41@ccc> From: "Heather" To: References: <8DED95409F9@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dictionary definition...(Was: Museum Replica) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 18:29:42 -0400 Status: RO For instance, when I was 18, I knew people who said anyone not seeing their view or agreeing completely with them was "ignorant". When I asked what they thought it meant, I was informed it meant "disagreeable". I can only presume so many people told them they were ignorant of certain things over the years, they figured that was what it meant. ;-p Moira > Unfortunately, just because it's defined that way in the > dictionary doesn't mean that it is the way it is meant in current > usage... just that the current usage hasn't been happing often > enough for the dictionary definition to have been changed. Many > people adopt words/terms into their vocabulary because they have > encountered them when other people use them - and they apply > them in the same way (or similar ways, that's how meanings drift) > to the way they have seen/heard them used... they never bother > looking up the dictionary definition because they assume the > "common" meaning of it that they have picked up from the context it > was used in is the actual definition/meaning of the term and that > they, in turn, are usuing it correctly. > > Which is way too wordy a way of saying, language and use of > terminology evolves and changes quicker than dictionary definitions > do. > > Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 8 21:21:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA22832 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 21:21:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g390H3X02060; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 18:17:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g390H1219642; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 18:17:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from out004.verizon.net (out004slb.verizon.net [206.46.170.16] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3905J205116 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 18:05:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default ([151.199.134.17]) by out004.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with SMTP id <20020409000527.COEM21225.out004.verizon.net@default> for ; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 19:05:27 -0500 Message-Id: <2.2.32.20020409000538.0072a020@mail.verizon.net> X-Sender: vze2brpf@mail.verizon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Ron Carnegie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: the eBay dress Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 20:05:38 -0400 Status: RO At 12:20 AM 4/7/02 EST, you wrote: ><< I wrote the seller and asked if she might have written the 15th > century when she meant 16th. She wrote back that it was an error and the > gown is supposed to be 16th century. >> This is a VERY common problem on Ebay. I know as I often do my searches by century. Frankly a lot of people do not know how that works. I often often seen strange descriptions as well. Figureens dressed in Georgian costume referred to as Elizabethan. Items described as being made in the 1920s also being described as "Victorian". My favorite of the second example was a silk flapper style dress. You couldn't even claim that she meant "Victorian" styled! Cheers, Ron Carnegie r.carnegie@verizon.net ************************************************* "The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground walked other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow." G.M. Trevelyan ************************************************* _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 8 21:21:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA22836 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 21:21:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g390HhX02112; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 18:17:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g390Hg220359; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 18:17:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m04.mx.aol.com (imo-m04.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.7]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g390Cg214186 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 18:12:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.12f.f7c12c0 (4396) for ; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 20:12:30 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <12f.f7c12c0.29e38bee@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dictionary definition...(Was: Museum Replica) To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_12f.f7c12c0.29e38bee_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10560 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 20:12:30 EDT Status: RO --part1_12f.f7c12c0.29e38bee_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/8/2002 6:40:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time, moirabeaneoin@prodigy.net writes: > Which is way too wordy a way of saying, language and use of > > terminology evolves and changes quicker than dictionary definitions > > do. > > > > Teddy > I agree with your post. You are correct. But I don't know anyone who uses the word "Replica" to mean something sorta like the original. It still, for most people, means what it means. At least around here. Oh well, I'm not responsible for words being misused. The meaning of words is important. Not their sorta close meanings but the ideas they actually convey. Of course our so called president doesn't even know or care about the subtleties of language and he's in a profession where this is paramount. Why should anybody else care if their speech is sloppy? Alas! --part1_12f.f7c12c0.29e38bee_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/8/2002 6:40:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time, moirabeaneoin@prodigy.net writes:


Which is way too wordy a way of saying, language and use of
> terminology evolves and changes quicker than dictionary definitions
> do.
>
> Teddy


I agree with your post. You are correct. But I don't know anyone who uses the word "Replica" to mean something sorta like the original. It still, for most people, means what it means. At least around here.

Oh well, I'm not responsible for words being misused. The meaning of words is important. Not their sorta close meanings but the ideas they actually convey. Of course our so called president doesn't even know or care about the subtleties of language and he's in a profession where this is paramount. Why should anybody else care if their speech is sloppy? Alas! --part1_12f.f7c12c0.29e38bee_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 8 22:28:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA23142 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 22:28:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g391P6X05817; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 19:25:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g391P1211041; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 19:25:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from out001.verizon.net (out001slb.verizon.net [206.46.170.13] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g391JE207875 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 19:19:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default ([151.199.134.17]) by out001.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with SMTP id <20020409011911.FEPB6775.out001.verizon.net@default> for ; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 20:19:11 -0500 Message-Id: <2.2.32.20020409011932.00753ac4@mail.verizon.net> X-Sender: vze2brpf@mail.verizon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Ron Carnegie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dictionary definition...(Was: Museum Replica) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 21:19:32 -0400 Status: RO At 08:12 PM 4/8/02 EDT, you wrote: >In a message dated 4/8/2002 6:40:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >moirabeaneoin@prodigy.net writes: > > >> Which is way too wordy a way of saying, language and use of >> > terminology evolves and changes quicker than dictionary definitions >> > do. >> > >> > Teddy >> > >I agree with your post. You are correct. But I don't know anyone who uses the >word "Replica" to mean something sorta like the original. It still, for most >people, means what it means. At least around here. I will take this farther. It is not just the word"replica" that was used, but the phrase "Museum Replica". That implies that it is a replica worthy of a museum. The seller takes this further by stating that it was made by a curator. No, it seems obvious to me that the seller either believes this to be authentic, or wants the buyer to believe it. Buying from EBAY is just like buying from antique stores. Sometimes the sellers are knowledgable, sometimes they are not. Sometimes those who are not care, and want to learn, sometimes they do not. Sometimes they are fully aware,. and just trying to make a sale. Cheers, Ron Carnegie r.carnegie@verizon.net ************************************************* "The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground walked other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow." G.M. Trevelyan ************************************************* _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 9 13:12:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28328 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 13:12:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g39G99X18359; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 10:09:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g39G8hS25179; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 10:08:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m10.mx.aol.com (imo-m10.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.165]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g39G51S21479 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 10:05:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Azelana@aol.com by imo-m10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.145.c954f81 (18709) for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 12:04:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Azelana@aol.com Message-ID: <145.c954f81.29e46b22@aol.com> To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 124 Subject: [h-cost] Re: 16th Century Spanish Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 12:04:50 EDT Status: RO Isabella, << I maintain a spanish persona, roughly around 1515 - 1600 (which is the period that I dress). By any chance does anyone know of some decent Spanish fashion research that would perhaps aid me in the right direction? I'm finding this a bit frustrating, for I am finding mostly English costume research. Though I know English fashions were sometimes inspired by Spanish.>> I can tell you what Elizabethan English called "Spanish" (spanyssh) at that time: conical farthingales (hoopslips) blackwork embroidery high-collared dresses with a bodice shaped like a male doublet great sleeves -- essentially bell sleeves slit open along the top of the arm and caught by a fastener at the wrist I expect that some of those elements will be appropriate for your garb. As for pics, try: 1) Princess of Spain in a doublet-bodiced gown. http://www.marquise.de/1500/pics/1599_1.shtml 2) The Princes of Spain in a doublet-bodiced gown with great sleeves, worn over a farthingale. (The shape of the skirt implies the hoops underneath.) http://www.marquise.de/1500/pics/1580_1.shtml Happy researching! Gillian Tedcastle the Elizabethan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 9 13:31:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28382 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 13:31:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g39GRTX21739; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 10:27:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g39GRNS09422; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 10:27:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fepZ.post.tele.dk (fepz.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.133]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g38Hckl15866 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 11:38:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from post12.tele.dk ([62.243.47.254]) by fepZ.post.tele.dk (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20020408173842.GTZX6796.fepZ.post.tele.dk@post12.tele.dk> for ; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 19:38:42 +0200 Message-ID: <3CB1D5EB.67C4ADE@post12.tele.dk> From: Leif Drews X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] stains on waistcoat Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 19:39:55 +0200 Status: RO Dear List I am embroidering my waistcoat now, but by accident i got some stains from my iron on it. It is because the steam choked out some water with a lot of chalk in it, you know it is because my iron uses tap water...... I know, i should have used demineralised water, but, is there a way i could remove those stains? They are not bad, but when you se them on the silk, the stains are dull. Bjarne -- Leif Drews boulevard 5, 3 th 1635 København V Bjarne Drews boulevard 5,3.th 1635 København V tlf. 35 37 13 70 My new domain name: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk Homepage: http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/~DeeDee_Revia/1index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 9 14:22:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA28651 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 14:22:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g39HJ3X00100; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 11:19:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g39HItS15845; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 11:18:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f24.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.24]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g38In8214451 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 12:49:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 11:49:01 -0700 Received: from 129.244.6.76 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 08 Apr 2002 18:49:01 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.6.76] From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Apr 2002 18:49:01.0379 (UTC) FILETIME=[0C786130:01C1DF2E] Subject: [h-cost] Re: Outlands Costume Collegium - a great event Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 13:49:01 -0500 Status: RO >From: Mary Denise Smith >The fifth Outlands Costume Collegium (held in Trinidad, Colorado) is >now >history, and all you folks who weren't there missed a fine event. I'd agree. >Lord Diarmaid O'Duinn and Mistress Dunstana Talana the Violet (mka >Marc >and Jennifer Carlson). These folks drove from Tulsa to present classes and >to brighten our event with their wit and grace. What, it's only a 1000 mile round trip :) >I only heard one complaint (the same complaint from several sources) - >Dairmaid's class wasn't LONG enough! Well, we can fix THAT if/when we get >them back here from Ansteorra. Which class? There -really- isn't that much you can say about 3-fingered gloves except here's how you make the pattern and go ye forth and sew. The shoe class went over the 2 hour limit as it was (I can do that for a lot longer (I start to run down at 8 hours), but as it was half the class was crashing with information overload). >Walk Through History - you were stunning! Did you notice you were >being >video taped? The actual reason I -didn't- take part. Honestly, it was a great time, I learned a lot when I wasn't teaching, and the scenery between Amarillo and Trinidad made that part of the trip easy (the 300 miles of pouring rain and thunderstorms between Amarillo and Tulsa I could have done with out -- I know Mary - not your department :) ). Marc _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 9 14:25:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA28672 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 14:25:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g39HLBX00437; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 11:21:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g39HE6S12965; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 11:14:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kumc-scanout.kumc.edu (kumc-scanout.kumc.edu [169.147.166.198]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g39GxBS02443 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 10:59:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: FROM gatedo.kumc.edu BY kumc-scanout.kumc.edu ; Tue Apr 09 11:59:07 2002 -0500 Received: from KUMC-GATEWAY-DOMAIN-Message_Server by gatedo.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 09 Apr 2002 11:59:09 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 5.5.3.1 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g39GxBS02443 Subject: [h-cost] No digest since saturday Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 11:59:02 -0500 Status: RO Has it been exceptionally slow, I have not received any digest since saturday. -- Linda Thompson >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what was the last one you received? I still have #841-845 (4/5 - 4/8) that I can send you, let me know off-list. Catherine ckinsey@kumc.edu _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 9 14:27:29 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA28679 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 14:27:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g39HO2X00746; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 11:24:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g39HO1S19411; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 11:24:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com (tungsten.btinternet.com [194.73.73.81]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g38LLL225629 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 15:21:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host213-123-42-30.btinternet.com ([213.123.42.30] helo=dan) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16ugZk-0000j0-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 08 Apr 2002 22:21:20 +0100 Message-ID: <001801c1df43$7dc8d080$1e2a7bd5@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: References: <004c01c1debd$ebeabfa0$edd9adcb@user> Subject: Re: impossible sleeves was Re: [h-cost] Re: the eBay dress MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 22:16:27 +0100 Status: RO Jean wrote: > Anyway, I have made my early Tudor dress with this arrangement, a wide > square neck at the front and a V at the back, with the sleeves and > armscye as tight as I could manage. It works very well, and I never > have to twitch the shoulders up. As I noted a while back, in Aileen Ribeiro's "Gallery of Fashion"on page 34 she states that "the jewelled "square" holding the neckline in place prevents the heavy sleeves from slipping off the shoulders". I do wonder whether the very tight sleeves and armscye are a 21st century way of keeping the sleeves where you want them, rather than a 16th century method... best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 9 16:20:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA29033 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 16:20:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g39JHBX13204; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 13:17:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g39JH7S23816; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 13:17:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g39Hc4S28265 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 11:38:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28124 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 13:57:39 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Outlands Costume Collegium - a great event In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 13:57:39 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO Mary Denise wrote: > >The fifth Outlands Costume Collegium (held in Trinidad, Colorado) is >now > >history, and all you folks who weren't there missed a fine event. Mark added: > I'd agree. Me three. The event planners did a great job, and the participants were enthusiastic. Mary Denise makes an excellent dress dummy and almost exactly fits my 15-year-old fitted gowns. I happily talked my throat out, in more than four hours of prepared presentations plus lots of informal discussion. I also managed to sneak in an hour or two of socializing with Marc and his lovely wife. And I just heard that the same bunch o' people won the bid for the SCA's 2003 Known World Costume Symposium, to be in October in Denver. Should be a blast ;-) --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 9 16:21:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA29037 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 16:21:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g39JHiX13306; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 13:17:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g39JHhS24156; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 13:17:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mr1.ash.ops.us.uu.net (mr1.ash.ops.us.uu.net [198.5.241.86]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g39HfhS00761 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 11:41:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pop.net by mr1.ash.ops.us.uu.net with ESMTP (peer crosschecked as: bristol.maxson.com [199.170.3.8]) id QQmjwg19453 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 17:41:41 GMT Message-ID: <3CB327C0.755861D4@pop.net> From: Jessica Wilbur X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Looking for information on Swiss clothing Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 13:41:20 -0400 Status: RO Hello, I have a friend (who is not on this list) who is looking for information on Swiss clothing (Geneva) in the early to mid-16th century. I've never run across any sources, but I've never really looked. Any help would be appreciated. Oh, she reads French and German as well, if that helps. Thanks! --Jessica _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 9 17:32:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA29617 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 17:32:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g39KT0X22178; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 14:29:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g39KShV06542; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 14:28:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f48.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.48]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g39KIiV29844 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 14:18:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 13:18:39 -0700 Received: from 65.67.60.175 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 09 Apr 2002 20:18:38 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.67.60.175] From: "Mary Temple" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Apr 2002 20:18:39.0048 (UTC) FILETIME=[BC394C80:01C1E003] Subject: [h-cost] "Tudor" dress sleeves (was: Re: impossible sleeves) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 20:18:38 Status: RO When I made my "Tudor" (it's more relaxed than a lot of the English dresses, so we joked about it being "Continental") I used a high back neckline and we put the shoulder seam a bit closer to the neck than we originally planned. Took us four tries with the sleeves to get it there, but it works. http://www.nga.gov/cgi-bin/pinfo?Object=46153+0+none It doesn't ride quite so high on the neck, and the armscye isn't quite so close to the neck, but that's closer to what I did than a V-back. Mary/Katerine (my second version of the dress is close to that color too) >Jean wrote: > > > Anyway, I have made my early Tudor dress with this arrangement, a >wide > > square neck at the front and a V at the back, with the sleeves and > > armscye as tight as I could manage. It works very well, and I never > > have to twitch the shoulders up. > >As I noted a while back, in Aileen Ribeiro's "Gallery of Fashion"on >page 34 she states that "the >jewelled "square" holding the neckline in place prevents the heavy >sleeves >from slipping off the shoulders". > >I do wonder whether the very tight sleeves and armscye are a 21st >century way of keeping the sleeves where you want them, rather than a >16th century method... > >best wishes >Stevie > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 9 18:26:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA29901 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 18:26:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g39LNNX28031; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 15:23:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g39LNNV07544; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 15:23:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r06.mx.aol.com (imo-r06.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.102]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g39In7S07714 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 12:49:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.b4.9a2f232 (3699) for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 14:49:00 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Subject: Re: impossible sleeves was Re: [h-cost] Re: the eBay dress To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_b4.9a2f232.29e4919c_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10560 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 14:49:00 EDT Status: RO --part1_b4.9a2f232.29e4919c_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 4/9/2002 1:24:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time,=20 stevie.gamble@btinternet.com writes: > I do wonder whether the very tight sleeves and armscye are a 21st > century way of keeping the sleeves where you want them, rather than a > 16th century method... >=20 Well, I think it's quite in keeping with what appears to be a good fit in th= e=20 period. They want everything tight and smooth and controlled. Also, a dress=20 with such sleeves and accessorized with a jeweled d=E9colletage is not a dre= ss=20 in which much activity is going to be attempted. Indeed, such a garment=20 proudly announces that you don't do anything! A tight armseye would be no=20 problamo. --part1_b4.9a2f232.29e4919c_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 4/9/2002 1:24:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time, stevie.gamble= @btinternet.com writes:


I do wonder whether the ver= y tight sleeves and armscye are a 21st
century way of keeping the sleeves where you want them, rather than a
16th century method...


Well, I think it's quite in keeping with what appears to be a good fit i= n the period. They want everything tight and smooth and controlled. Also, a=20= dress with such sleeves and accessorized with a jeweled d=E9colletage is not= a dress in which much activity is going to be attempted. Indeed, such a gar= ment proudly announces that you don't do anything! A tight armseye would be=20= no problamo. --part1_b4.9a2f232.29e4919c_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 9 18:26:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA29905 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 18:26:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g39LNTX28055; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 15:23:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g39LNSV07606; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 15:23:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m04.mx.aol.com (imo-m04.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.7]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g39IpoS09294 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 12:51:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.199.50a62fc (3699) for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 14:51:28 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <199.50a62fc.29e4922f@aol.com> To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_199.50a62fc.29e4922f_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10560 Subject: [h-cost] FYI Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 14:51:27 EDT Status: RO --part1_199.50a62fc.29e4922f_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Angels and Insects" is on DVD now [came out in March] and is quite inexpensive at DeepDiscountDVD.com. Something like $14. --part1_199.50a62fc.29e4922f_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Angels and Insects" is on DVD now [came out in March] and is quite inexpensive at DeepDiscountDVD.com. Something like $14. --part1_199.50a62fc.29e4922f_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 9 18:27:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA29909 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 18:27:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g39LNBX27987; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 15:23:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g39LNAV07435; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 15:23:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g39L7LV28359 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 15:07:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA29855 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 17:26:57 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] Kalamazoo announcement Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 17:26:57 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO The International Congress on Medieval Studies, the world's largest interdisciplinary gathering of medieval scholars, will be May 2-5, 2002 in Kalamazoo, Michigan. I help organize a track of sessions on dress and textiles at each year's conference under the umbrella of DISTAFF, a group that exists purely for the purpose of organizing such sessions at Kalamazoo. I just sent the DISTAFF list my annual announcement listing costume-related sessions for this year's Congress. Anyone who is planning on coming to the Congress and would like to see this mailing should email me directly for a copy. This year's sessions include several h-cost regulars as speakers: Susan Carroll-Clark, Danielle Nunn-Weinberg, Heather Rose Jones, and Chris Laning. Anyone who wants to know more about Kalamazoo should browse the website at and follow the links to the program for the 37th Congress. You are welcome to pass this notice on to other relevant lists (e.g. SCA-garb, SCA-Universitas) if you think it would be of interest. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 9 18:30:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA29935 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 18:30:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g39LQtX28479; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 15:26:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g39LQsV09993; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 15:26:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from out020.verizon.net (out020pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.176]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g390EA216118 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 18:14:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default ([151.199.134.17]) by out020.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with SMTP id <20020409001409.DFJF5495.out020.verizon.net@default> for ; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 19:14:09 -0500 Message-Id: <2.2.32.20020409001428.00734b2c@mail.verizon.net> X-Sender: vze2brpf@mail.verizon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Ron Carnegie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Museum Replica 15th Century Gown on eBay Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 20:14:28 -0400 Status: RO At 09:58 AM 4/6/02 -0800, you wrote: > >> I wrote the seller and asked if she might have written the 15th >> century when she meant 16th. She wrote back that it was an error and the >> gown is supposed to be 16th century. > >The seller thinks it's *supposed to be* 16th century, so we know historical >costume is not her field. Which means the seller is telling us what she >was told by the museum curator/dressmaker, or what the actual owner told >her the curator/dressmaker said, and she's selling the dress for the >owner. We can deduce that this curator/dressmaker isn't the curator of a >costume museum. (For all we know they are the curator of a car >museum.) So the mis-information starts there, and the seller/owner doesn't >have the background knowledge not to believe what someone told them. > They may not even be a curator in the normal sense of the word. In many museums "curator" is a pay grade so many different administration types might be called "curators" who are not responsible for any sort of artifact. Many mueseums have a Curator of Interpretation position who is the supervisor of the interpreters. I remain, Ron Carnegie Managing Interpreter, Historic Events (as an example of a silly job title) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 9 18:30:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA29939 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 18:30:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g39LRNX28560; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 15:27:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g39LRMV10298; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 15:27:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g392nG226306 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 20:49:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dandy.net (pvil2035.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.237.35]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA12987 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 22:46:29 -0400 Message-ID: <3CB2569C.77528859@dandy.net> From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Caul Question References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 22:49:00 -0400 Status: RO Hi. Thanks, Kate, I couldn't get a mental on it there. I have seen existing hair nets from a number of periods, and they are usually in some sort of silk or other fine stuff. I will have to find my way over to Drea's to see what pictures she has of them. Mike T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 9 18:33:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA29945 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 18:33:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g39LUNX28961; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 15:30:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g39LUMV12084; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 15:30:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fepB.post.tele.dk (fepB.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.145]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g39DPo221197 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 07:25:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from post12.tele.dk ([195.215.190.6]) by fepB.post.tele.dk (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20020409132548.GSHL11201.fepB.post.tele.dk@post12.tele.dk> for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 15:25:48 +0200 Message-ID: <3CB2EC20.AFFEF970@post12.tele.dk> From: Leif Drews X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] testing Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 15:26:56 +0200 Status: RO -Only testing, sorry, but it is so quiet here, is the line dead? Bjarne Leif Drews boulevard 5, 3 th 1635 København V Bjarne Drews boulevard 5,3.th 1635 København V tlf. 35 37 13 70 My new domain name: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk Homepage: http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/~DeeDee_Revia/1index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 9 18:55:29 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA30028 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 18:55:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g39LpXX01277; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 15:51:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g39LpWV24721; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 15:51:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from clmboh1-smtp3.columbus.rr.com (clmboh1-smtp3.columbus.rr.com [65.24.0.112]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g39LJHV05321 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 15:19:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 39jz301 (dhcp065-024-177-132.columbus.rr.com [65.24.177.132]) by clmboh1-smtp3.columbus.rr.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id g39LJFR02014 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 17:19:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00e101c1e00c$20e20fc0$84b11841@columbus.rr.com> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: References: <2.2.32.20020409000538.0072a020@mail.verizon.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: the eBay dress MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 17:18:34 -0400 Status: RO Greetings-- > This is a VERY common problem on Ebay. I know as I often do my > searches by century. Frankly a lot of people do not know how that works. I > often often seen strange descriptions as well. Figureens dressed in > Georgian costume referred to as Elizabethan. Items described as being made > in the 1920s also being described as "Victorian". My favorite of the second > example was a silk flapper style dress. You couldn't even claim that she > meant "Victorian" styled! I've been on the lookout for Victorian Bohemian garnet jewelry. There's one seller who keeps listing some pins set with garnets as "Victorian Medieval"--and they're neither. Not to mention the local Half-Price Books, where they insist on shelving the pre-Raphaelites on the same shelf as the medieval art. (It was only recently that someone changed it to "Medieval/Romantic". Susan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 9 18:55:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA30034 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 18:55:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g39LptX01345; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 15:51:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g39LprV24940; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 15:51:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dc-mx08.cluster1.charter.net (dc-mx08.cluster0.hsacorp.net [209.225.8.18]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g39LStV11233 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 15:28:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [66.188.127.221] (HELO laptop) by dc-mx08.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.3) with SMTP id 36460632 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 09 Apr 2002 17:28:55 -0400 Message-ID: <003001c1e00d$95a68740$dd7fbc42@mad.chartermi.net> From: "Rebecca Schmitt" To: References: <3CB327C0.755861D4@pop.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Looking for information on Swiss clothing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 16:29:08 -0500 Status: RO I don't know a whole lot - but in Patterns of Fashion there is a picture of a "respectable lady from Geneva" (page 6 I think) from around 1560? 1580? (I'm being lazy and not running to get my copy and look). Anyhow, any info you get I'd love to see as well. I have this idea of having my persona's family exiling themselves from England to Geneva during Mary I's reign... ********************** Rebecca Schmitt aka Mistress Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot, cod merchant of Bristol, BRF FOF So many books, so little time lotsofteapots@charter.net ********************** ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jessica Wilbur" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 12:41 PM Subject: [h-cost] Looking for information on Swiss clothing > Hello, > > I have a friend (who is not on this list) who is looking for information > on Swiss clothing (Geneva) in the early to mid-16th century. I've never > run across any sources, but I've never really looked. Any help would be > appreciated. > > Oh, she reads French and German as well, if that helps. > > Thanks! > --Jessica > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 9 19:01:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA30077 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 19:01:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g39LvjX02031; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 15:57:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g39LviV28719; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 15:57:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d09.mx.aol.com (imo-d09.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.41]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g39Ls3V26458 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 15:54:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo-d09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.149.c976a67 (3846) for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 17:53:52 -0400 (EDT) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Message-ID: <149.c976a67.29e4bcf0@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Victorian Medieval To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_149.c976a67.29e4bcf0_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 121 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 17:53:52 EDT Status: RO --part1_149.c976a67.29e4bcf0_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/9/2002 2:52:19 PM Pacific Daylight Time, nicolaa@columbus.rr.com writes: > There's one > seller who keeps listing some pins set with garnets as "Victorian > Medieval"--and they're neither. > OK, what IS Victorian Medieval? I love that. One has to be fairly creative to coin new eras as such. How about Art Deco Goth? Or Italian Renn Viking? angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes Theatrical Costume Design www.cabbagerosecostumes.com "Do you not know I am a woman?. When I think, I must speak." W. Shakespeare --part1_149.c976a67.29e4bcf0_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/9/2002 2:52:19 PM Pacific Daylight Time, nicolaa@columbus.rr.com writes:


There's one
seller who keeps listing some pins set with garnets as "Victorian
Medieval"--and they're neither.

OK, what IS Victorian Medieval?  I love that. One has to be fairly creative to coin new eras as such.  How about Art Deco Goth? Or Italian Renn Viking?

angela
+++++
Angela F. Lazear
Cabbage Rose Costumes
Theatrical Costume Design
www.cabbagerosecostumes.com
"Do you not know I am a woman?.  When I think, I must speak."
W. Shakespeare

 --part1_149.c976a67.29e4bcf0_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 9 19:06:15 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA30097 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 19:06:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g39M2nX02651; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 16:02:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g39M2lV01860; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 16:02:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d10.mx.aol.com (imo-d10.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.42]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g39LurV28192 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 15:56:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LalahTT@aol.com by imo-d10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.42.254f360c (4357) for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 17:56:43 -0400 (EDT) From: LalahTT@aol.com Message-ID: <42.254f360c.29e4bd9b@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Looking for information on Swiss clothing To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_42.254f360c.29e4bd9b_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10560 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 17:56:43 EDT Status: RO --part1_42.254f360c.29e4bd9b_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Patterns of Fashion -- page 6 -- figure 21: "Femina honest Genevensis: dress of a respectable woman of Geneva, from Habitus Praecipuorum Populoram byh Hans Weigel and Just Amman, 1577." Lalah Never Give up, Never Surrender, - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Looking for a great gift? Check out Beary Classy Bears at http://hometown.aol.com/bearyclassybears/myhomepage/sale.html --part1_42.254f360c.29e4bd9b_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Patterns of Fashion -- page 6 -- figure 21: "Femina honest Genevensis:  dress of a respectable woman of Geneva, from Habitus Praecipuorum Populoram byh Hans Weigel and Just Amman, 1577."

Lalah
Never Give up, Never Surrender,
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Looking for a great gift?  Check out Beary Classy Bears at
http://hometown.aol.com/bearyclassybears/myhomepage/sale.html

--part1_42.254f360c.29e4bd9b_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 9 19:38:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA30221 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 19:38:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g39MZ5X05849; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 16:35:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g39MQ2V13811; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 16:26:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bigred.unl.edu (bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g39MLWV11706 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 16:21:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (00217146@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.11.5/8.11.5) with ESMTP id g39MLP142225 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 17:21:25 -0500 (CDT) From: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] stains on waistcoat In-Reply-To: <3CB1D5EB.67C4ADE@post12.tele.dk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 17:21:25 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO If the stains really are chalk or calcium carbonate (which is very likely) then a weak acid like vinegar may help. Try the vinegar on a scrap first, of course, so you don't just make a bigger stain. Emma > Dear List > I am embroidering my waistcoat now, but by accident i got some stains > from my iron on it. It is because the steam choked out some water with a > lot of chalk in it, you know it is because my iron uses tap water...... > I know, i should have used demineralised water, but, is there a way i > could remove those stains? > They are not bad, but when you se them on the silk, the stains are dull. > > Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 9 19:46:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA30253 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 19:46:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g39MgQX06634; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 16:42:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g39MgPV21841; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 16:42:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g39MZFV18632 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 16:35:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=laptop) by albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16v4Co-0004cW-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 09 Apr 2002 15:35:14 -0700 From: "Saragrace knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Looking for information on Swiss clothing Organization: PII Message-ID: <000a01c1e015$c4286040$6501a8c0@phoenix.speedchoice.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 In-Reply-To: <3CB327C0.755861D4@pop.net> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 15:27:41 -0700 Status: RO How's about this: Costume and Conduct In the Laws of Basel, Bern, and Zurich 1370-1800. I don't see an ISBN, but it was published by John Hopkins Press for the first time in 1935. Here are some pictures that I posted a while back from the book. It is a great source of pictures and anectodal stuff. http://www.saragrace.net/images/swiss_sunday_1679.JPG http://www.saragrace.net/images/strassburg.gif http://www.saragrace.net/images/swiss_hdrs_1679.jpg And Oh yes that is a hat not her hair!! **-----Original Message----- **From: h-costume-admin@indra.com **[mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of Jessica Wilbur **Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 10:41 AM **To: h-costume@indra.com **Subject: [h-cost] Looking for information on Swiss clothing ** ** **Hello, ** **I have a friend (who is not on this list) who is looking for **information on Swiss clothing (Geneva) in the early to **mid-16th century. I've never run across any sources, but I've **never really looked. Any help would be appreciated. ** **Oh, she reads French and German as well, if that helps. ** **Thanks! **--Jessica **_______________________________________________ **h-costume mailing list **h-costume@mail.indra.com **http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 9 19:46:16 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA30258 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 19:46:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g39MgmX06679; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 16:42:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g39MgjV22026; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 16:42:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dc-mx07.cluster1.charter.net (dc-mx07.cluster0.hsacorp.net [209.225.8.17]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g39MZvV19021 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 16:35:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [66.188.127.221] (HELO laptop) by dc-mx07.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.3) with SMTP id 36593112 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 09 Apr 2002 18:50:21 -0400 Message-ID: <005901c1e016$f292e4e0$dd7fbc42@mad.chartermi.net> From: "Rebecca Schmitt" To: References: <42.254f360c.29e4bd9b@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Looking for information on Swiss clothing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0056_01C1DFED.0968F080" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 17:36:10 -0500 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0056_01C1DFED.0968F080 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Lalah! ********************** Rebecca Schmitt aka Mistress Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot, cod merchant of = Bristol, BRF FOF So many books, so little time lotsofteapots@charter.net ********************** ----- Original Message -----=20 From: LalahTT@aol.com=20 To: h-costume@indra.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 4:56 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Looking for information on Swiss clothing Patterns of Fashion -- page 6 -- figure 21: "Femina honest Genevensis: = dress of a respectable woman of Geneva, from Habitus Praecipuorum = Populoram byh Hans Weigel and Just Amman, 1577."=20 Lalah=20 Never Give up, Never Surrender,=20 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -=20 Looking for a great gift? Check out Beary Classy Bears at=20 http://hometown.aol.com/bearyclassybears/myhomepage/sale.html=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0056_01C1DFED.0968F080 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks Lalah!
 
**********************
Rebecca = Schmitt
aka=20 Mistress Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot, cod merchant of=20 Bristol,
BRF FOF
 
So many books, so little = time
 
lotsofteapots@charter.net**********************
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 LalahTT@aol.com=20
Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 = 4:56=20 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Looking = for=20 information on Swiss clothing

Patterns of = Fashion --=20 page 6 -- figure 21: "Femina honest Genevensis:  dress of a = respectable=20 woman of Geneva, from Habitus Praecipuorum Populoram byh Hans Weigel = and Just=20 Amman, 1577."

Lalah
Never Give up, Never Surrender,
- = - - - -=20 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Looking for = a great=20 gift?  Check out Beary Classy Bears at=20
http://hometown.aol.com/bearyclassybears/myhomepage/sale.html=20

------=_NextPart_000_0056_01C1DFED.0968F080-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 9 20:04:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA30329 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 20:04:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g39N0gX08511; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 17:00:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g39N0gV01138; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 17:00:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g39MvKV29202 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 16:57:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) id QAA04462 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 16:15:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200204092315.QAA04462@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] stains on waistcoat Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 16:15:45 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO > If the stains really are chalk or calcium carbonate (which is very likely) > then a weak acid like vinegar may help. Try the vinegar on a scrap first, of > course, so you don't just make a bigger stain. I was taught to use oxalic acid on rust stains. It seems to remove the stains better than vinegar. Unfortunately, this is a bad head day for me (woke up with the lopsided Picasso head). I can't remember what concentration we used. Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 9 20:14:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA30381 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 20:14:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g39NAgX09550; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 17:10:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g39NAeV06142; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 17:10:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from a.smtp-out.sonic.net (a.smtp-out.sonic.net [208.201.224.38]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g39N6CV03911 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 17:06:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 20614 invoked from network); 9 Apr 2002 23:06:12 -0000 Received: from ultra.sonic.net (208.201.224.22) by a.smtp-out.sonic.net with SMTP; 9 Apr 2002 23:06:12 -0000 Received: from lavoltapress.com (d37.nas25.sonic.net [209.204.154.37]) by ultra.sonic.net (8.11.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id g39N6BS06867 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 16:06:11 -0700 X-envelope-info: Message-ID: <3CB3748A.A2726DE0@lavoltapress.com> From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Victorian Medieval References: <149.c976a67.29e4bcf0@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 16:08:58 -0700 Status: RO > > OK, what IS Victorian Medieval? I love that. One has to be fairly > creative to coin new eras as such. Haven't seen the item, but to me the term "Victorian Medieval" evokes the Aesthetic Movement. Fran --------------------------------------------- Visit our web pages! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and vintage dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 9 20:50:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA30533 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 20:50:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g39NkhX12475; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 17:46:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g39NkfV23153; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 17:46:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g39NfWV20951 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 17:41:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=laptop) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16v5Ew-0004cP-00; Tue, 09 Apr 2002 16:41:31 -0700 From: "Saragrace knauf" To: Cc: Organization: PII Message-ID: <000401c1e01f$019f2720$6501a8c0@phoenix.speedchoice.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20020331120140.04fbf760@mail.frys.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Subject: [h-cost] Tilke's books??; Was Mandarin jacket? (not quite on-topic) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 16:33:47 -0700 Status: RO I must have missed this somehow. Could you point me to the original message, or tell us again what book you are talking about? Sounds REALLY GOOD!! **-----Original Message----- **From: h-costume-admin@indra.com **[mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of Carolyn Kayta Barrows **Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2002 1:09 PM **To: h-costume@indra.com **Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mandarin jacket? (not quite on-topic) ** ** ** **>You think those piddling few plates online are great? You **really should **>check into buying it - I invested $125US last year and I have not **>regretted one penny of the amount!!! It is 'enshrined' along with my **>"Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd" and my 'SOup for the Qan" **>[translation and commentary on the oldest extant tretise of **>mongolian/chinese cooking] ** **> > I can't BELIEVE this book is on line. I feel I should **download the **> > whole thing QUICK before it goes away. Who says the **Internet ain't **> > great! ** **(Assuming you're talking about Tilke's book) I've had mine **for several **years, and use it for historical, fantasy, science fiction, **mundane, and **fibre art garments. I have his 'Costume Patterns and **Designs' and his **'Folk Art of Europe'. I don't have his third one, all **re-drawings of folk **costumes on people, all shown tiny in crowded little rows. ** **Kayta ** //// \\\ ** ////-@@\\\ ** (((( 7 ))) ** ((( <> )))) ** ) (((((( **/----\ /---\)) ** **_______________________________________________ **h-costume mailing list **h-costume@mail.indra.com **http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 9 21:12:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA30611 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 21:12:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3A08hX13931; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 18:08:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3A08fV02220; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 18:08:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3A04MV00468 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 18:04:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.127.194]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GUB00NCJS780N@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 09 Apr 2002 17:04:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1 Looking for information on Swiss clothing In-reply-to: <3CB327C0.755861D4@pop.net> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020409163713.00c269f0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 16:41:25 -0700 Status: RO Have her start by reading picture books abut the Protestant Reformation. Any picture of a Reformer from Switzerland will be wearing Swiss costume, and there may be Swiss women pictured listening to him. Also, Jost Amman did several pictures of regional dress, and there should be Swiss women pictured in one of his books. (Dover likes to republish them.) Jessica Wilbur writes, in a message sent 01:41 PM 4/9/02 -0400: >Hello, > >I have a friend (who is not on this list) who is looking for information >on Swiss clothing (Geneva) in the early to mid-16th century. I've never >run across any sources, but I've never really looked. Any help would be >appreciated. > >Oh, she reads French and German as well, if that helps. > >Thanks! >--Jessica >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 9 21:12:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA30616 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 21:12:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3A08uX13967; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 18:08:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3A08tV02321; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 18:08:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3A04MV00478 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 18:04:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.127.194]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GUB00NCJS780N@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 09 Apr 2002 17:04:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Victorian Medieval In-reply-to: <149.c976a67.29e4bcf0@aol.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020409164142.00c25e50@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 17:04:13 -0700 Status: RO >>There's one >>seller who keeps listing some pins set with garnets as "Victorian >>Medieval"--and they're neither. > >OK, what IS Victorian Medieval? I love that. One has to be fairly >creative to coin new eras as such. How about Art Deco Goth? Or Italian >Renn Viking? There was a period when the Victorians 'discovered' the Middle Ages, and there are a lot of pieces out there which are done in the style antique dealers may call 'Gothic Revival'. These are Medieval-oid things which have the right look for SCA and most other Medieval/Renaissance venues. And since Gothic Revival pieces are not as old as real Medieval pieces, they are in likely to be in usable condition (and only cost a small fortune, not an impossibly large one). You can find jewelry, woven tapestries, furniture, ceramics, metalwork, and even old theatre costumes in this style. Just don't confuse them with real Medieval, because they are stylistic hybrids produced to give a Medieval look. The pre-Raphaelites did a lot of paintings of Medieval-oid subjects. And some Victorian buildings, especially churches, were done in this style, sometimes called ' carpenter Gothic', complete with wooden ' corner stones' up the sides, and pointy arches. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 9 21:12:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA30620 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 21:12:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3A096X13988; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 18:09:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3A094V02409; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 18:09:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3A04NV00482 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 18:04:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.127.194]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GUB00NCJS780N@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 09 Apr 2002 17:04:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] 2 Looking for information on Swiss clothing In-reply-to: <003001c1e00d$95a68740$dd7fbc42@mad.chartermi.net> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020409163935.04f8f9c0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <3CB327C0.755861D4@pop.net> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 16:44:51 -0700 Status: RO >I don't know a whole lot - but in Patterns of Fashion there is a picture of >a "respectable lady from Geneva" (page 6 I think) from around 1560? 1580? >(I'm being lazy and not running to get my copy and look). Anyhow, any info >you get I'd love to see as well. I have this idea of having my persona's >family exiling themselves from England to Geneva during Mary I's reign... But wouldn't they be wearing English clothes? Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 9 22:01:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA30894 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 22:01:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3A0vhX16544; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 18:57:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3A0vfV19691; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 18:57:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pcp-2.ihug.co.nz (pcp-2.ihug.co.nz [203.109.252.66]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3A0qlV18035 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 18:52:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p265-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (user) [203.173.193.11] by pcp-2.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1 (Debian)) id 16v6Lr-0005cF-00; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 12:52:44 +1200 Message-ID: <006a01c1e029$aacb0f80$0bc1adcb@user> From: "michaela" To: References: <3CB327C0.755861D4@pop.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Looking for information on Swiss clothing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 12:50:04 +1200 Status: RO > I have a friend (who is not on this list) who is looking for information > on Swiss clothing (Geneva) in the early to mid-16th century. I've never > run across any sources, but I've never really looked. Any help would be > appreciated. Early to mid Swiaa is very German ren is style. A simpler line and very graceful. Quite different to later period which is what has been so far offered. Just as later 16C English is very diffeent to earlier 16thC and the same with German. Personally it's one of my favs:) Just looking for some examples at my site (currently being completely overhauled as it's gotten out of control;): http://frazzledfrau.tripod.com/image11.htm Yellow with black bands http://frazzledfrau.tripod.com/image38.htm Grey with black bands http://frazzledfrau.tripod.com/image43.htm yellow with black bands http://frazzledfrau.tripod.com/image102.htm red with black bands (get the theme here;) ) http://frazzledfrau.tripod.com/image48.htm Shot(?)red/grey with black bands http://frazzledfrau.tripod.com/image62.htm http://frazzledfrau.tripod.com/image70.htm cream with blackwork bands (Anna Meyer) http://frazzledfrau.tripod.com/image47.htm http://frazzledfrau.tripod.com/image143.htm Women of Basel by Holbein http://frazzledfrau.tripod.com/image77.htm Thisbe by baldung http://frazzledfrau.tripod.com/image173.htm Red with black bands http://frazzledfrau.tripod.com/image90.htm grey with black bands and full upper sleeves http://frazzledfrau.tripod.com/image44.htm I think manuel was a Swiss artist? Another of my many "need to dos" All from: http://frazzledfrau.tripod.com/othergerman.htm So others may know if there are others there that are swiss, or if any actually aren't and if any link is dead. Off to download the rest of my site to fix all those dead links.. sigh. It will remain as it is until I get it fully resolved btw. And if there is a dead link let me know and I can patch that immediately. michaela _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 9 22:01:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA30899 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 22:01:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3A0w9X16589; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 18:58:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3A0w8V19900; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 18:58:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3A0rUV18243 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 18:53:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.127.194]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GUB00M1JUH3G8@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 09 Apr 2002 17:53:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tilke's books In-reply-to: <000401c1e01f$019f2720$6501a8c0@phoenix.speedchoice.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020409175048.00c23a00@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <4.3.1.2.20020331120140.04fbf760@mail.frys.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 17:52:59 -0700 Status: RO >I must have missed this somehow. Could you point me to the original >message, or tell us again what book you are talking about? Sounds >REALLY GOOD!! http://www.indiana.edu/~librcsd/etext/tilke/ Aparently there are several editions of this one of Tilke's books. The one I have in hard-cover has some plates this one doesn't, and this one has some my copy doesn't have. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 9 22:05:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA30911 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 22:05:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3A11fX16823; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 19:01:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3A11fV21133; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 19:01:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pcp-2.ihug.co.nz (pcp-2.ihug.co.nz [203.109.252.66]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3A0wPV20065 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 18:58:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p265-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (user) [203.173.193.11] by pcp-2.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1 (Debian)) id 16v6RL-0006hj-00; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 12:58:24 +1200 Message-ID: <007001c1e02a$754fd920$0bc1adcb@user> From: "michaela" To: References: <004c01c1debd$ebeabfa0$edd9adcb@user> <001801c1df43$7dc8d080$1e2a7bd5@dan> Subject: Re: impossible sleeves was Re: [h-cost] Re: the eBay dress MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 12:55:48 +1200 Status: RO > I do wonder whether the very tight sleeves and armscye are a 21st > century way of keeping the sleeves where you want them, rather than a > 16th century method... Well concidering loose armscyes is a later 20th C method of construction I highly doubt it. Tight armscyes are seen continually in paintings prior to the 16thC and in practically every garment up to and including the 20thC. In fact it creates a better fit and allows more range of movement that the deep armscyes seen in womens jackets/blouses espcially in the 1980s onwards. I noticed this especially in my costumes which are constricting as period correct but allowed me to at least lift my arms to shoulderheight without pulling on the body, as compared to suit jackets or blaoses with more room in the body but deeper armscyes. Looking at extant patterns too shows the smaller armscye is period. michaela _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 9 22:05:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA30915 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 22:05:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3A11kX16842; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 19:01:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3A11kV21178; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 19:01:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3A0u9V19067 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 18:56:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=laptop) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16v6P8-0003y6-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 09 Apr 2002 17:56:08 -0700 From: "Saragrace knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Looking for information on Swiss clothing (second send) Organization: PII Message-ID: <000001c1e029$606cab60$6501a8c0@phoenix.speedchoice.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 17:48:03 -0700 Status: RO Not sure why, but one of my messages got posted, but not this one. Here it is again **-----Original Message----- **From: Saragrace knauf [mailto:saragrace@earthlink.net] **Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 3:28 PM **To: 'h-costume@indra.com' **Subject: RE: [h-cost] Looking for information on Swiss clothing ** ** **How's about this: Costume and Conduct In the Laws of Basel, **Bern, and Zurich 1370-1800. I don't see an ISBN, but it was **published by John Hopkins Press for the first time in 1935. **Here are some pictures that I posted a while back from the **book. It is a great source of pictures and anectodal stuff. ** **http://www.saragrace.net/images/swiss_sunday_1679.JPG **http://www.saragrace.net/images/strassburg.gif **http://www.saragrace.net/images/swiss_hdrs_1679.jpg ** **And Oh yes that is a hat not her hair!! ** ****-----Original Message----- ****From: h-costume-admin@indra.com ****[mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of Jessica Wilbur ****Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 10:41 AM ****To: h-costume@indra.com ****Subject: [h-cost] Looking for information on Swiss clothing **** **** ****Hello, **** ****I have a friend (who is not on this list) who is looking for ****information on Swiss clothing (Geneva) in the early to ****mid-16th century. I've never run across any sources, but I've ****never really looked. Any help would be appreciated. **** ****Oh, she reads French and German as well, if that helps. **** ****Thanks! ****--Jessica ****_______________________________________________ ****h-costume mailing list ****h-costume@mail.indra.com ****http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume **** ** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 9 22:08:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA30924 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 22:08:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3A14fX16961; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 19:04:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3A14fV22104; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 19:04:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3A11lV21189 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 19:01:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m24.in-tch.com [216.166.191.24]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g3A0nRj01552 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 18:49:27 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3CB39027.B9D5A574@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] testing References: <3CB2EC20.AFFEF970@post12.tele.dk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 19:06:47 -0600 Status: RO Delayed, I think....I posted something on Sunday, and it didn't come through until Tuesday afternoon.... --sue Bjarne Drews wrote: > > -Only testing, sorry, but it is so quiet here, is the line dead? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 9 22:42:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA31026 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 22:42:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3A1bhX18848; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 19:37:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3A1bfV03489; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 19:37:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dc-mx01.cluster1.charter.net (dc-mx01.cluster0.hsacorp.net [209.225.8.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3A1WcV01975 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 19:32:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [66.188.127.221] (HELO laptop) by dc-mx01.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.3) with SMTP id 38420079 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 09 Apr 2002 21:41:14 -0400 Message-ID: <007c01c1e02f$9d9113e0$dd7fbc42@mad.chartermi.net> From: "Rebecca Schmitt" To: References: <3CB327C0.755861D4@pop.net> <4.3.1.2.20020409163935.04f8f9c0@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 2 Looking for information on Swiss clothing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 20:32:44 -0500 Status: RO Probably, but I also imagine that they would be somewhat influenced by what Calvin thought would be proper for women to wear...? Does anyone know if exiles would have picked up things like fashion while in Geneva, or would they have "stuck to their own"? ********************** Rebecca Schmitt aka Mistress Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot, cod merchant of Bristol, BRF FOF So many books, so little time lotsofteapots@charter.net ********************** > >I don't know a whole lot - but in Patterns of Fashion there is a picture of > >a "respectable lady from Geneva" (page 6 I think) from around 1560? 1580? > >(I'm being lazy and not running to get my copy and look). Anyhow, any info > >you get I'd love to see as well. I have this idea of having my persona's > >family exiling themselves from England to Geneva during Mary I's reign... > > But wouldn't they be wearing English clothes? > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 9 23:15:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA31155 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 23:15:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3A2BgX20800; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 20:11:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3A2BeV12742; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 20:11:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3A27qV11655 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 20:07:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comcast.net (pcp234016pcs.elictc01.md.comcast.net [68.55.178.225]) by mtaout45-02.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built Feb 6 2002)) with ESMTP id <0GUB00478XWYEB@mtaout45-02.icomcast.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 09 Apr 2002 22:07:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Liz / Cozit To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <3CB39E70.24B5AE9@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en References: <200204092122.g39LMRV07015@net.indra.com> Subject: [h-cost] Re: Museum Replica... one last attempt at explaination Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: cozit@comcast.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 22:07:44 -0400 Status: RO Ok... I promise... this is the third time I've tried to get this across, and I will not repeat myself again. Folks (yes, I know some of you get it, but...)... There is a COMPANY named "Museum Replicas". Some of their non-clothing stuff isn't too bad (can't say all by a long shot, but...) Their clothing on the other hand is purely romaticised, fantasied stuff based loosely on an idea of a time frame... *not* anything you'd see from a Museum from any of the time periods. Now, to be fair, I haven't looked at *all* their clothing, but pretty much all of the supposedly medieval and renaissance stuff is, as I said, very much the worst of the "bodice-ripper cover inspiration" stuff. When someone is trying to sell their old stuff on EBay, it's very likely that whether they know it's not really period or not, they'll say that it is "Museum Replica" whatever... because it was bought from that company... not because it's something that was made as a replica of something in a museum somewhere. Ok... said it that last time (Sorry, but I love this group... and this particular thread has *really* been annoying me, since it keeps going around in circles, and the original gripe was because the title is misleading to anyone who doesn't know of the company and their mostly pretty (not all by a long shot) but unauthentic costumes) Now dropping the subject entirely, unless someone feels a need to e-mail me off the list (can't imagine why). Moving out of rant and rave mode... -Elisabeth > > From: Ron Carnegie > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dictionary definition...(Was: Museum Replica) > Reply-To: h-costume@mail.indra.com > > At 08:12 PM 4/8/02 EDT, you wrote: > >In a message dated 4/8/2002 6:40:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > >moirabeaneoin@prodigy.net writes: > > > > > >> Which is way too wordy a way of saying, language and use of > >> > terminology evolves and changes quicker than dictionary definitions > >> > do. > >> > > >> > Teddy > >> > > > >I agree with your post. You are correct. But I don't know anyone who uses the > >word "Replica" to mean something sorta like the original. It still, for most > >people, means what it means. At least around here. > > I will take this farther. It is not just the word"replica" that was > used, but the phrase "Museum Replica". That implies that it is a replica > worthy of a museum. The seller takes this further by stating that it was > made by a curator. No, it seems obvious to me that the seller either > believes this to be authentic, or wants the buyer to believe it. > > Buying from EBAY is just like buying from antique stores. Sometimes > the sellers are knowledgable, sometimes they are not. Sometimes those who > are not care, and want to learn, sometimes they do not. Sometimes they are > fully aware,. and just trying to make a sale. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 9 23:58:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA31285 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 23:58:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3A2siX22848; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 20:54:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3A2sgV24700; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 20:54:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (smtp10.atl.mindspring.net [207.69.200.246]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3A2pWV23832 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 20:51:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from user-33qtm9l.dialup.mindspring.com ([199.174.217.53]) by smtp10.atl.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16v8Cn-0004jG-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 09 Apr 2002 22:51:30 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3CB1BFE1.56087B86@costumemag.com> References: <3CB1BFE1.56087B86@costumemag.com> To: h-costume@indra.com From: Chris Laning Subject: Re: [h-cost] Outlands Costume Collegium - a great event Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 19:45:39 -0700 Status: RO At 10:05 AM -0600 4/8/02, Mary Denise Smith wrote: > >The fifth Outlands Costume Collegium (held in Trinidad, Colorado) is now >history, and all you folks who weren't there missed a fine event. > >I wish to heap praise and thanks upon the following people for their >hard work and stellar results: > >Kuroteria Eirene Tzmiskina Kontostephanina (mka Melanie Unruh-Bays) for >scheduling the classes, and for doing the Proceedings. There are copies >of the Proceedings available from her, both in hard copy and on CD. >Email Eirene at for more information. Eirene -- I, for one, would like information about getting a copy of the Proceedings, and if you like, I could post it to the H-Costume list to spare you a few questions. (You KNOW what happens when someone posts on a mailing list that there's a handout or CD available!!! ) Thanks! Hope you got to listen to Robin Netherton yourself -- isn't she fantastic? -- _________________________________________________________ O (Lady) Christian de Holacombe | Chris Laning + Shire of Windy Meads - Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 10 01:26:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA31684 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 01:26:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3A4MjX27556; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 22:22:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3A4MgV21189; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 22:22:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from out019.verizon.net (out019pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.98]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3A4I6V19697 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 22:18:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default ([151.199.134.17]) by out019.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with SMTP id <20020410041802.KOTW13286.out019.verizon.net@default> for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 23:18:02 -0500 Message-Id: <2.2.32.20020410041821.006f2e50@mail.verizon.net> X-Sender: vze2brpf@mail.verizon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Ron Carnegie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Museum Replica... one last attempt at explaination Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 00:18:21 -0400 Status: RO At 10:07 PM 4/9/02 -0400, you wrote: >There is a COMPANY named "Museum Replicas". Some of their non-clothing stuff isn't too bad (can't say all by a long shot, but...) > >Their clothing on the other hand is purely romaticised, fantasied stuff based loosely on an idea of a time frame... *not* anything you'd see from a Museum from any of the time periods. Now, to be fair, I haven't looked at *all* their clothing, but pretty much all of the supposedly medieval and renaissance stuff is, as I said, very much the worst of the "bodice-ripper cover >inspiration" stuff. > >When someone is trying to sell their old stuff on EBay, it's very likely that whether they know it's not really period or not, they'll say that it is "Museum Replica" whatever... because it was bought from that company... not because it's something that was made as a replica of something in a museum somewhere. > > >Ok... said it that last time (Sorry, but I love this group... and this particular thread has *really* been annoying me, since it keeps going around in circles, and the original gripe was because the title is misleading to anyone who doesn't know of the company and their mostly pretty (not all by a long shot) but unauthentic costumes) > > There is a company called Museum Replicas, I get their catalogs and have purchased from them. A good friend used to supply them with jewelry. That does not change the fact that "Museum Replica" and "Museum Reproduction" are both standard phrases used by advertisers to imply accuracy. Just take a look at a random sampling of sutler's ads. It is why the company chose the name. It also does not change the fact that the style of dress in question IS NOT featured in their catalog (at least not the online catalog), or that the seller stated it was made by a curator (not purchased from a subsidary of Atlantic Cutlery). Cheers, Ron Carnegie r.carnegie@verizon.net ************************************************* "The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground walked other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow." G.M. Trevelyan ************************************************* _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 10 01:40:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA31850 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 01:40:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3A4ahX28354; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 22:36:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3A4ahV25253; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 22:36:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3A4XmV24430 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 22:33:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m16.in-tch.com [216.166.191.16]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g3A4LPj19216 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 22:21:25 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3CB3C1D4.9DCDA3D@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Outlands Costume Collegium - a great event References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 22:38:44 -0600 Status: RO *When* in October 2003? I'd really like to attend.... --Sue, needing a costuming fix but *bad*..... Robin Netherton wrote: > > And I just heard that the same bunch o' people won the bid for the SCA's > 2003 Known World Costume Symposium, to be in October in Denver. Should be > a blast ;-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 10 02:49:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA27702 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 02:49:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3A5joX01439; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 23:45:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3A5jgV12196; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 23:45:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com (dl.mixmeister.net [66.210.221.206]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3A5g7V11456 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 23:42:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cc261386a [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A0CF1D601FC; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 00:42:39 -0500 Message-ID: <010001c1e052$51ee5b00$0300a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] British Women & Hats Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 01:41:10 -0400 Status: RO First, I would like to say, the Queen Mum had a glorious life and will be missed by the world. I was watching the funeral of the Queen Mum today. I was in awe of all the beautiful hats the women were wearing. All in black but so many different styles. I don't think I saw two alike hats alike. So many were inspired by various styles of the 20th Century. I saw wide brims hats from the late Edwardian period to teens. Lots of these. One of my sons passed through the room, looked at the TV and said, "It looks like Titanic!" One lady looked like Jackie Kennedy with a pill box hat and Chanel dress. Another lady's hat looked like the late 1940s-early 50s. The Queen's hat even looked late Edwardian. So are newly designed historically inspired hats in Vogue in Europe or is the royalty of Europe wearing vintage? I must also say I loved the garnishment of feathers on the hats. BTW, I also enjoyed all the different styles of military costumes. I am so glad I have this event on video tape because of the history but also the hat fashions. I love the hats worn in London. When I was there, five years ago, I was following people around in Harrod's to get a better view of their hats. I wish hats were wore more often in the U.S. Hats seem to be worn here for garden wear, sports, or beachwear. Certain church congregations wear hats. The black women in the Richmond VA area wear the most beautiful and stylish hats to church. A few women in our Catholic church wear hats, but not many. I love to go out to eat after church to see the parade of hats. While I am on the hat topic... I am in desperate need to find wide brimmed summer hats with scarves sewn in them, like what Audrey Hepburn worn... to tie around the neck. From my many years as a teenage sun goddess, and gardening, I have come up with sun damage to the skin on my neck. So I need to protect the area. If anyone knows a place that sells them or makes them, please let me know. I need to sit by the pool and watch my kids in swim competition all summer. Plus my little flowers need my love and attention too! Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by plugit.com] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 10 05:25:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA28339 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 05:25:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3A8MKX06302; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 02:22:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3A8M1V16024; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 02:22:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fepZ.post.tele.dk (fepz.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.133]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3A8HvV15135 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 02:18:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from post12.tele.dk ([195.215.190.212]) by fepZ.post.tele.dk (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20020410081754.DNSG6796.fepZ.post.tele.dk@post12.tele.dk> for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 10:17:54 +0200 Message-ID: <3CB3F579.316CFBA0@post12.tele.dk> From: Leif Drews X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] British Women & Hats References: <010001c1e052$51ee5b00$0300a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 10:19:05 +0200 Status: RO Dear Penny. Yes you are so right. It is a shame that it is not modern any more to wear hats. But it is the custom for royalties to wear them at any events. Queen Margrethe II is also wearing many different hats, and lately when our prince merried Alexandra, she has taken up this habit to wear a hat for every okation. Alexandra is from Hong Kong so i think she has her hats made there. Alexandra also took up the fashion to wear small smart Chanel jackets. They become her very well because she is a small person. Bjarne Penny Ladnier wrote: > First, I would like to say, the Queen Mum had a glorious life and will be > missed by the world. > > I was watching the funeral of the Queen Mum today. I was in awe of all the > beautiful hats the women were wearing. All in black but so many different > styles. I don't think I saw two alike hats alike. So many were inspired by > various styles of the 20th Century. I saw wide brims hats from the late > Edwardian period to teens. Lots of these. One of my sons passed through > the room, looked at the TV and said, "It looks like Titanic!" One lady > looked like Jackie Kennedy with a pill box hat and Chanel dress. Another > lady's hat looked like the late 1940s-early 50s. The Queen's hat even > looked late Edwardian. So are newly designed historically inspired hats in > Vogue in Europe or is the royalty of Europe wearing vintage? I must also > say I loved the garnishment of feathers on the hats. > > BTW, I also enjoyed all the different styles of military costumes. > > I am so glad I have this event on video tape because of the history but also > the hat fashions. > > I love the hats worn in London. When I was there, five years ago, I was > following people around in Harrod's to get a better view of their hats. > > I wish hats were wore more often in the U.S. Hats seem to be worn here for > garden wear, sports, or beachwear. Certain church congregations wear hats. > The black women in the Richmond VA area wear the most beautiful and stylish > hats to church. A few women in our Catholic church wear hats, but not many. > I love to go out to eat after church to see the parade of hats. > > While I am on the hat topic... I am in desperate need to find wide brimmed > summer hats with scarves sewn in them, like what Audrey Hepburn worn... to > tie around the neck. From my many years as a teenage sun goddess, and > gardening, I have come up with sun damage to the skin on my neck. So I need > to protect the area. If anyone knows a place that sells them or makes them, > please let me know. I need to sit by the pool and watch my kids in swim > competition all summer. Plus my little flowers need my love and attention > too! > > Penny Ladnier > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > http://www.costumegallery.com > http://www.costumeclassroom.com > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by plugit.com] > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Leif Drews boulevard 5, 3 th 1635 København V Bjarne Drews boulevard 5,3.th 1635 København V tlf. 35 37 13 70 My new domain name: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk Homepage: http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/~DeeDee_Revia/1index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 10 05:57:10 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA28451 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 05:57:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3A8rmX07061; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 02:53:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3A8rhV22303; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 02:53:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3A8ovV21824 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 02:50:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KGE7HM6G2O010XEO@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 09:53:33 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk ([158.94.56.3]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KGE7HJC4J60125PO@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 09:53:30 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 10 Apr 2002 09:50:07 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 10 Apr 2002 09:50:03 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.74) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 09:50:01 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] : impossible sleeves was In-reply-to: <200204092122.g39LMlV07184@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <90BEFCD1D13@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 09:50:01 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > I do wonder whether the very tight sleeves and armscye are a 21st > century way of keeping the sleeves where you want them, rather > than a 16th century method... Hi Stevie, It may have been doen that way by some and different ways by others - very little seems to have been "standardises" as the "one true way" of making things.... (is it ever?)... certainly some pictures show what seem to be extremely tigth upper sleeves on Tudor era gowns... I know one person who got the right look and fit making hers very tight around the upper arm and shoulder. When someone else tried on the outfit it fit fine except her hands turned blue because the upper sleeves were so tight.. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 10 07:51:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA28689 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 07:51:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3A9geX08265; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 03:42:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3A9eZV02279; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 03:40:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fepE.post.tele.dk (fepE.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.137]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3A9XcV00887 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 03:33:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from post12.tele.dk ([195.215.190.212]) by fepE.post.tele.dk (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20020410093321.MONO26334.fepE.post.tele.dk@post12.tele.dk> for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 11:33:21 +0200 Message-ID: <3CB40728.C7DBC4BA@post12.tele.dk> From: Leif Drews X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Victorian Medieval References: <90C21E6265C@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 11:34:32 +0200 Status: RO Hi. My two cents to this is also that i always thinks of Richard Wagner and his opera's when i think of Victorian Medieval costumes. Bjarne Teddy wrote: > > > There's one > > > seller who keeps listing some pins set with garnets as "Victorian > > > Medieval"--and they're neither. > > > > > OK, what IS Victorian Medieval? I love that. > > That's easy - in costuming terms it pretty much boils down to > making a costume in the stule of the Victorians' ideas of what a > MEdieval outfit would have looked like (there are plenty of examples > in Victorian paintings and illustrations). By the smae token, > "Victorian Renaissance" would pretty much boil down to the > pseudo ren outfits so often seen in pre-raphelite style pictures.... etc > > > One has to be fairly creative to coin new eras as such. How about > > Art Deco Goth? Or Italian Renn Viking? > > Italin-Ren Viking *really* appeals - I can picture some lovely fantasy > outfits that would fall into that category > > Teddy > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Leif Drews boulevard 5, 3 th 1635 København V Bjarne Drews boulevard 5,3.th 1635 København V tlf. 35 37 13 70 My new domain name: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk Homepage: http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/~DeeDee_Revia/1index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 10 07:51:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA28686 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 07:51:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3A9irX08351; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 03:44:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3A9ijV03191; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 03:44:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [195.194.177.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3A9YSV01057 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 03:34:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from csv6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA24007.; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 10:42:38 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by csv6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 10:34:05 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.1 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] British Women & Hats Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g3A9YSV01057 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 10:33:35 +0100 Status: RO I work afternoon/evening on Tuesdays, so I was able to watch the funeral live. I too noticed the frequency of large-crowned hats like those made to fit over the big Edwardian hairstyles. I suppose the modern ones must have a padded lining to stop them coming down over the wearer's eyes. Smart hats are not worn much in the UK either, at least outside London, though I too have noticed that the ladies of black churches favour elegant ones. Being short with a large head, I seldom wear a hat except for reenactment (and occasionally sun protection). Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 10 07:59:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA28718 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 07:59:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3A9AWX07391; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 03:10:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3A981V25118; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 03:08:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3A92vV24077 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 03:02:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KGE7WJYK4W011UEN@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 10:05:35 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk ([158.94.56.3]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KGE7WJNC3A00FU51@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 10:05:35 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 10 Apr 2002 10:02:13 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 10 Apr 2002 10:01:47 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.74) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 10:01:39 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Victorian Medieval In-reply-to: <200204092243.g39MhEV22269@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <90C21E6265C@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 10:01:39 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > > There's one > > seller who keeps listing some pins set with garnets as "Victorian > > Medieval"--and they're neither. > > > OK, what IS Victorian Medieval? I love that. That's easy - in costuming terms it pretty much boils down to making a costume in the stule of the Victorians' ideas of what a MEdieval outfit would have looked like (there are plenty of examples in Victorian paintings and illustrations). By the smae token, "Victorian Renaissance" would pretty much boil down to the pseudo ren outfits so often seen in pre-raphelite style pictures.... etc > One has to be fairly creative to coin new eras as such. How about > Art Deco Goth? Or Italian Renn Viking? Italin-Ren Viking *really* appeals - I can picture some lovely fantasy outfits that would fall into that category Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 10 09:31:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA29268 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 09:31:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3ACSHX12999; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 06:28:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3ACSGV22556; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 06:28:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from carbon (carbon.btinternet.com [194.73.73.92]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3ACHCV19863 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 06:17:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host213-122-45-10.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.45.10] helo=dan) by carbon with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16vH2C-0001so-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 13:17:09 +0100 Message-ID: <001601c1e089$cdaea240$0a2d7ad5@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: References: <90BEFCD1D13@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Subject: Re: [h-cost] : impossible sleeves was MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 13:03:51 +0100 Status: RO Teddy wrote: >very little seems to have been "standardises" as the "one > true way" of making things.... (is it ever?)... we are in absolute agreement on this... >certainly some pictures > show what seem to be extremely tigth upper sleeves on Tudor era > gowns... Indeed, though the square of jewels is present in all the portraits that I have found of that fashion. Take a look at the portrait of Elizabeth as princess (http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Elizabeth%20I%20P.jpg) or the series of Henry's later wives. Bearing in mind the huge weight of the fabrics used, and the fur linings, I doubt that anything short of metal would hold that lot up. I think it's akin to wearing a mail shirt, in terms of weight, and the square enables that weight to be distributed over the shoulders. I can imagine a woman wanting the look but lacking the dosh for the real thing trying to use cheaper, lighter fabrics, and the tight fit would presumably work, but it's not in the evidence that we have. >I know one person who got the right look and fit making > hers very tight around the upper arm and shoulder. When > someone else tried on the outfit it fit fine except her hands turned > blue because the upper sleeves were so tight.. Quite so; I can't imagine that going down too well with the Tudors... best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 10 09:31:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA29272 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 09:31:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3ACSXX13022; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 06:28:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3ACSXV22661; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 06:28:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from carbon (carbon.btinternet.com [194.73.73.92]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3ACHDV19872 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 06:17:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host213-122-45-10.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.45.10] helo=dan) by carbon with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16vH2E-0001so-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 13:17:10 +0100 Message-ID: <001701c1e089$cebb3040$0a2d7ad5@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: References: Subject: Re: impossible sleeves was Re: [h-cost] Re: the eBay dress MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 13:17:27 +0100 Status: RO Albert Cat wrote: >> I do wonder whether the very tight sleeves and armscye are a 21st >> century way of keeping the sleeves where you want them, rather than a >> 16th century method... >Well, I think it's quite in keeping with what appears to be a good fit in the >period. They want everything tight and smooth and controlled. But that isn't the point at issue. The question is "how did they achieve that look?" >Also, a dress >with such sleeves and accessorized with a jeweled décolletage actually, the square of jewels wasn't an accessory, and decolletage wasn't a feature of that style. >is not a dress >in which much activity is going to be attempted. Indeed, such a garment >proudly announces that you don't do anything! But Tudor nobility did a very great deal. If you take a look at Elizabeth's daily programme you will realise that she worked at a rate wholly unacceptable to modern ideas. The notion of the idle rich is not relevant to 16th century England... >A tight armseye would be no >problamo. Well, up to a point, Lord Copper... best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 10 10:17:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29565 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 10:17:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3ADEfX14984; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 07:14:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3ADEeV04969; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 07:14:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fepF.post.tele.dk (fepF.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.135]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3AD3DV01632 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 07:03:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from post12.tele.dk ([195.215.190.212]) by fepF.post.tele.dk (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20020410130312.NVBE16199.fepF.post.tele.dk@post12.tele.dk>; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 15:03:12 +0200 Message-ID: <3CB43857.E03758CD@post12.tele.dk> From: Leif Drews X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com, lumieres@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] pattern of Gustav III Wedding Dress Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 15:04:23 +0200 Status: RO Hi. Sorry for the crossposting! I just want to inform all you 18th.century freaks like me, that The Royal Armory of Sweden, Livrustkammaren has published a pattern of the Wedding Dress of Gustav III. It was made for him in Paris. You can buy your copy of it from their website: Jeanette Danielson Enhetschef/Head of Department Publika enheten/Public Department Livrustkammaren/The Royal Armoury Slottsbacken 3 S-111 30 Stockholm Sweden tel: +46(0)851955508 fax: +46(0)851955511 e-mail: jeanette.danielson@lsh.se www.livrustkammaren.nu The price for the pattern is a little pricey, 350 swedish kr. but it is such an exquisite garment. Now i know what i am going to make next time............ Bjarne -- Leif Drews boulevard 5, 3 th 1635 København V Bjarne Drews boulevard 5,3.th 1635 København V tlf. 35 37 13 70 My new domain name: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk Homepage: http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/~DeeDee_Revia/1index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 10 10:43:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29973 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 10:43:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3ADe3X16531; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 07:40:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3ADe2V12839; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 07:40:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3ADNhV07739 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 07:23:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA02060 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 09:43:22 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Outlands Costume Collegium - a great event In-Reply-To: <3CB3C1D4.9DCDA3D@in-tch.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 09:43:22 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Tue, 9 Apr 2002, Sue Clemenger wrote: > *When* in October 2003? I'd really like to attend.... > --Sue, needing a costuming fix but *bad*..... I don't think the exact date is fixed yet. I certainly hope the event planners will keep us informed! --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 10 11:22:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA30349 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 11:22:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3AEIlX19210; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 08:18:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3AEIjV26690; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 08:18:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from watchman.propagation.net ([63.249.230.111]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3AE83V22305 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 08:08:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumemag.com (co-trinidad1c-155.lbrlks.adelphia.net [24.49.6.155]) by watchman.propagation.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA29972 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 09:06:27 -0500 Message-ID: <3CB44A56.12F811F@costumemag.com> From: Mary Denise Smith X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-NSCPCD (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] KWCS in Denver - October 2003 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 08:21:12 -0600 Status: RO Greetings List, SCA costumers in Denver are pleased that we have been awarded the bid for KWCS 2003. Our general date is October 2003. Note that this is 2003, 18 months away. We do not have a specific date yet, but expect to shortly. As soon as we have useful details like a date, keynote speaker, a few merchants to brag about and some specific exhibition info to announce, we will post it to this and other relevant lists. Please note that one does NOT have to be a member of the SCA to attend this event. See you there! Mary Denise Smith Special Guest and Merchant Co-ordinator KWCS 2003 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 10 12:02:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA30614 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 12:02:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3AExAX22900; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 08:59:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3AEx8V15748; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 08:59:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3AEfXV06749 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 08:41:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup-209.246.75.15.dial1.newyork1.level3.net ([209.246.75.15] helo=earthlink.net) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16vJHw-0000x1-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 07:41:32 -0700 Message-ID: <3CB44F2E.5070703@earthlink.net> From: A F Murphy User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011128 Netscape6/6.2.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] British Women & Hats References: <010001c1e052$51ee5b00$0300a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 10:41:50 -0400 Status: RO One problem here is the idea that One Size Fits All in women's hats! I have had a dreadful time getting hats to fit, because they seem designed to go over rather fluffy hair, and I not only have smooth hair, but I tend to wear it up, so I need a hat to sort of perch. And the really neat little hats designed for that are never worn, shall we say, in my culture? People around me just wear the ones with brims. They blow off, they interfere with my vision driving, I stopped wearing them... I have a few vintage ones designed for it - maybe I need to go back to wearing them. Just uncovered a whole cache of my grandmother's hats! *G* Anne Penny Ladnier wrote: > > >I wish hats were wore more often in the U.S. Hats seem to be worn here for >garden wear, sports, or beachwear. Certain church congregations wear hats. >The black women in the Richmond VA area wear the most beautiful and stylish >hats to church. A few women in our Catholic church wear hats, but not many. >I love to go out to eat after church to see the parade of hats. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 10 13:16:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA30935 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 13:16:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3AGCwX01320; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 10:12:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3AGCtV26960; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 10:12:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m04.mx.aol.com (imo-m04.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.7]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3AFohV13873 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 09:50:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.194.530874b (3932) for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 11:50:21 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <194.530874b.29e5b93d@aol.com> Subject: Re: impossible sleeves was Re: [h-cost] Re: the eBay dress To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_194.530874b.29e5b93d_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10560 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 11:50:21 EDT Status: RO --part1_194.530874b.29e5b93d_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/10/2002 8:30:40 AM Eastern Daylight Time, stevie.gamble@btinternet.com writes: > <> If added to the dress, it is. <> Which merely means a low neckline...not specifically off the shoulder. So yes they did. <> Nonsense. > --part1_194.530874b.29e5b93d_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/10/2002 8:30:40 AM Eastern Daylight Time, stevie.gamble@btinternet.com writes:


<<the square of jewels wasn't an accessory,>>
If added to the dress, it is.

<<and decolletage>>


Which merely means a low neckline...not specifically off the shoulder. So yes they did.


<<The notion of the idle rich is
not relevant to 16th century England...>>


Nonsense.



--part1_194.530874b.29e5b93d_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 10 14:00:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA31111 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 14:00:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3AGuqX06442; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 10:56:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3AGunV22220; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 10:56:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comet.pacifier.com ([199.2.117.155]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3AGNKV02920 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 10:23:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 ([207.173.100.142]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g3AGNGK00614 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 09:23:17 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [h-cost] : impossible sleeves was Message-ID: <3CB405A9.9942.12B719A5@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <001601c1e089$cdaea240$0a2d7ad5@dan> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 09:28:09 -0700 Status: RO > Indeed, though the square of jewels is present in all the portraits > that I have found of that fashion. Take a look at the portrait of > Elizabeth as princess > (http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Elizabeth%20I%20P.jpg) > > or the series of Henry's later wives. Bearing in mind the huge weight > of the fabrics used, and the fur linings, I doubt that anything short > of metal would hold that lot up. I think it's akin to wearing a mail > shirt, in terms of weight, and the square enables that weight to be > distributed over the shoulders. I can imagine a woman wanting the > look but lacking the dosh for the real thing trying to use cheaper, > lighter fabrics, and the tight fit would presumably work, but it's not > in the evidence that we have. When I've done this type of gown, I always use a square neckline in front and a V in the back. It is for engineering purposes. A square neckline in the back doesn't help keep the shoulders up nearly as well unless it is very high. I have found that the upper sleeve needs to be fairly tight, but it is for looks, not because of the engineering to keep it up. Also, I don't always stitch the area under the arm, but sometimes leave it open from front muscle point to rear muscle point. I started doing that when I discovered a portrait (sorry, I don't remember which one it was but it was something I found in a museum in London, possibly the National Gallery archives). (It is essentially the same as the middle eastern dancing costumes that leave it open rather than putting in a gusset.) I've also been working on doing an earlier (circa 1509) with the square cut armscye. I have had no problems with the underdress (which has tight sleeves to the bottom) but the overdress with its belled sleeves don't seem to work as well. I know they did them (from tapestry evidence) but I haven't been able to get it to work yet. > > >I know one person who got the right look and fit making > > hers very tight around the upper arm and shoulder. When > > someone else tried on the outfit it fit fine except her hands turned > > blue because the upper sleeves were so tight.. > > Quite so; I can't imagine that going down too well with the Tudors... > > best wishes > Stevie > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 10 14:41:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA02898 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 14:41:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3AHc0X10893; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 11:38:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3AHbsV16087; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 11:37:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3AHNfV07876 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 11:23:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [136.152.196.163] (as3-4-177.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.163]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.10.2) with ESMTP id g3AHNeo16137 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 10:23:40 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <010001c1e052$51ee5b00$0300a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> References: <010001c1e052$51ee5b00$0300a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] British Women & Hats Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 09:43:00 -0700 Status: RO At 1:41 AM -0400 4/10/02, Penny Ladnier wrote: >First, I would like to say, the Queen Mum had a glorious life and will be >missed by the world. > >I was watching the funeral of the Queen Mum today. I was in awe of all the >beautiful hats the women were wearing. All in black but so many different >styles. I don't think I saw two alike hats alike. So many were inspired by >various styles of the 20th Century. I saw wide brims hats from the late >Edwardian period to teens. Lots of these. One of my sons passed through >the room, looked at the TV and said, "It looks like Titanic!" One lady >looked like Jackie Kennedy with a pill box hat and Chanel dress. Another >lady's hat looked like the late 1940s-early 50s. The Queen's hat even >looked late Edwardian. So are newly designed historically inspired hats in >Vogue in Europe or is the royalty of Europe wearing vintage? I must also >say I loved the garnishment of feathers on the hats. I have to wonder if the prevalence of stylish hats might not have been a conscious tribute to a woman known for her hats! -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 10 14:46:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA02922 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 14:46:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3AHgjX11422; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 11:42:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3AHgiV18865; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 11:42:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from protactinium (protactinium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.176]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3AHRnV10226 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 11:27:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host213-1-177-133.btinternet.com ([213.1.177.133] helo=dan) by protactinium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16vLso-0006rK-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 18:27:46 +0100 Message-ID: <000b01c1e0b5$3263fac0$85b101d5@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: References: <194.530874b.29e5b93d@aol.com> Subject: Re: impossible sleeves was Re: [h-cost] Re: the eBay dress MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 18:28:26 +0100 Status: RO AlbertCat wrote: > > <> > > > If added to the dress, it is. The point is that the square of jewels wasn't added to the dress. It was an integral part of it, and therefore wasn't an accessory. > > <> > > > Which merely means a low neckline...not specifically off the shoulder. So yes > they did. But the portraits don't actually show a low neckline; there is no cleavage, nothing resembling earlier, and later low necklines. > < not relevant to 16th century England...>> > > > Nonsense. You've chosen not to attempt to respond to the example that I quoted of Elizabeth's workload, you've simply cut it and asserted that my comment is nonsense. If you would care to provide examples, and cite your sources, I'll be happy to comment. Simply saying "nonsense" doesn't hack it. Stevie Gamble > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 10 15:34:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA03209 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 15:34:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3AISpX16263; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 12:28:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3AISnV15507; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 12:28:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d02.mx.aol.com (imo-d02.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3AINrV12783 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 12:23:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.39.254cbed9 (4561) for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 14:23:41 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <39.254cbed9.29e5dd2c@aol.com> Subject: Re: impossible sleeves was Re: [h-cost] Re: the eBay dress To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_39.254cbed9.29e5dd2c_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10560 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 14:23:40 EDT Status: RO --part1_39.254cbed9.29e5dd2c_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/10/2002 1:43:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, stevie.gamble@btinternet.com writes: > > > > <> > > > > > > If added to the dress, it is. > > The point is that the square of jewels wasn't added to the dress. It > was an integral part of it, and therefore wasn't an accessory. > > I'm sorry, I think we're just at odds in the definition department. I think if the thing is interchangeable with other gowns....can be worn with more than one gown....it's an accessory. Like collars and engagents in other periods. They are an integral part of the outfit [like a hat even] but still accessories. You're definition is perhaps too modern, I think. > > <> > > > > > > Which merely means a low neckline...not specifically off the > shoulder. So yes > > they did. > > But the portraits don't actually show a low neckline; there is no > cleavage, nothing resembling earlier, and later low necklines. > I think those necklines, not being at the NECK but closer to the bottom of the armseye, are low.....not plunging, but low. Mainly because there are gowns with high necks, and partlets to fill in a LOW NECKLINE. There is no cleavage because the corset pushes the breasts down, not up. Again...you're thinking appears modern. > > < > not relevant to 16th century England...>> > > > > > > Nonsense. > > You've chosen not to attempt to respond to the example that I quoted > of Elizabeth's workload, you've simply cut it and asserted that my > comment is nonsense. If you would care to provide examples, and cite > your sources, I'll be happy to comment. Simply saying "nonsense" > doesn't hack it. The NOTION of the idle rich is > NOT RELEVANT to 16th century England. I think this statement is nonsense, regardless of how much Queen Elizabeth or Mary Queen of Scots ran around. Are you saying the idle rich didn't exist or had zero influence in this period? --part1_39.254cbed9.29e5dd2c_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/10/2002 1:43:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, stevie.gamble@btinternet.com writes:



> > <<the square of jewels wasn't an accessory,>>
>
>
> If added to the dress, it is.

The point is that the square of jewels wasn't added to the dress. It
was an integral part of it, and therefore wasn't an accessory.  
>


I'm sorry, I think we're just at odds in the definition department. I think if the thing is interchangeable with other gowns....can be worn with more than one gown....it's an accessory. Like collars and engagents in other periods. They are an integral part of the outfit [like a hat even] but still accessories. You're definition is perhaps too modern, I think.

>  <<and decolletage>>
>
>
> Which merely means a low neckline...not specifically off the
shoulder. So yes
> they did.

But the portraits don't actually show a low neckline; there is no
cleavage, nothing resembling earlier, and later low necklines.



I think those necklines, not being at the NECK but closer to the bottom of the armseye, are low.....not plunging, but low. Mainly because there are gowns with high necks, and partlets to fill in a LOW NECKLINE. There is no cleavage because the corset pushes the breasts down, not up. Again...you're thinking appears modern.

> <<The notion of the idle rich is
> not relevant to 16th century England...>>
>
>
> Nonsense.

You've chosen not to attempt to respond to the example that I quoted
of Elizabeth's workload, you've simply cut it and asserted that my
comment is nonsense. If you would care to provide examples, and cite
your sources, I'll be happy to comment. Simply saying "nonsense"
doesn't hack it.


The NOTION of the idle rich is
> NOT RELEVANT to 16th century England.

I think this statement is nonsense, regardless of how much Queen Elizabeth or Mary Queen of Scots ran around. Are you saying the idle rich didn't exist or had zero influence in this period? --part1_39.254cbed9.29e5dd2c_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 10 15:40:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA03307 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 15:40:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3AIZiX16966; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 12:35:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3AIZfV19352; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 12:35:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from io.cox-internet.com (io-cox.cox-internet.com [208.180.118.41]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3AIVfV17244 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 12:31:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jd92601 ([208.180.60.149]) by io.cox-internet.com (InterMail vK.4.03.05.03 201-232-132-103 license 180e1de7f543f89455b24e508f9cca39) with SMTP id <20020410182936.NLIK7217.io@jd92601> for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 13:29:36 -0500 Message-ID: <001d01c1e0bd$e97e64e0$953cb4d0@coxinternet.com> From: "Nancy DuPree" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Subject: [h-cost] New to List Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 13:31:20 -0500 Status: RO Hi, My name is Nancy and I am from Texas, USA. I have just joined this list. I found out about it while taking Drea's 16th Century Woman's Dress class. I am interested in Medieval and Renaissance clothing. Regards, Nancy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 10 16:19:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA03538 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:19:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3AJFqX21002; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 13:15:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3AJFgV12136; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 13:15:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3AJAQV09221 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 13:10:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.127.194]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GUD00DD199D1H@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 12:10:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: keeping hats on (was Re: [h-cost] British Women & Hats In-reply-to: <3CB44F2E.5070703@earthlink.net> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020410111718.00c269b0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <010001c1e052$51ee5b00$0300a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 11:44:38 -0700 Status: RO >I not only have smooth hair, but I tend to wear it up, so I need a hat to >sort of perch. >They blow off, they interfere with my vision driving, I stopped wearing >them... Use hat pins. The pin goes in thru the hat, thru your hair, and out the other side of the hat. That way the hat won't fall off. Use two pins if you need to. Make your own hat pins out of ' piano wire', available at old fashioned hobby stores but not modern craft stores. It's springy wire, and comes in 36" pieces, good for 3-4 hat pins. Cut it somehow (it's really tough) and sharpen one end with a file. Try the newly sharpened point thru a sweater, to make sure you've got all the rough edges off it. Kink the unsharpened end into a very small 'U' so you can wire a large shank-button onto it. After wiring the button on, use glue to keep the wire and button shank in position. Beads are also good for hat pin ends. Sometimes I can find glass thingeys which are not quite beads, which are are flat and have a hole partway into them. These are perfect for the ends of hat pins. Research what hat pins look like in your period, and make more like that. Victorian/Edwardian ones are long. Some decades did bead-like ends (80's - 90's) and others (Edwardian) had flat button-like ends. The Dover reprint of several decades of fashion plates from Harper's magazine shows a few hat pins. 1920's ones are much shorter and may have felt ends, or may have an 'end' at both ends. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 10 16:21:00 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA03559 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:20:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3AJGRX21113; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 13:16:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3AJGPV12551; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 13:16:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3AJASV09246 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 13:10:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.127.194]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GUD00DD199D1H@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 12:10:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] British Women & Hats In-reply-to: X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020410114504.0500c210@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <010001c1e052$51ee5b00$0300a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> <010001c1e052$51ee5b00$0300a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 11:51:10 -0700 Status: RO Heather Rose Jones writes, in a message sent 09:43 AM 4/10/02 -0700: >At 1:41 AM -0400 4/10/02, Penny Ladnier wrote: >>First, I would like to say, the Queen Mum had a glorious life and will be >>missed by the world. >> >>I was watching the funeral of the Queen Mum today. I was in awe of all the >>beautiful hats the women were wearing. All in black but so many different >>styles. I don't think I saw two alike hats alike. So many were inspired by >>various styles of the 20th Century. I saw wide brims hats from the late >>Edwardian period to teens. Lots of these. One of my sons passed through >>the room, looked at the TV and said, "It looks like Titanic!" One lady >>looked like Jackie Kennedy with a pill box hat and Chanel dress. Another >>lady's hat looked like the late 1940s-early 50s. The Queen's hat even >>looked late Edwardian. So are newly designed historically inspired hats in >>Vogue in Europe or is the royalty of Europe wearing vintage? I must also >>say I loved the garnishment of feathers on the hats. > >I have to wonder if the prevalence of stylish hats might not have been a >conscious tribute to a woman known for her hats! And I just think the Londoners are big on wearing hats. Certainly their climate warrants it. My Grandmother Barrows (1880-1973) lived in Southern California and never left the house without a hat and gloves. My other grandmother, born some 20 years later, lived in Oregon, hardly owned any hats, and wore a bandana over her head, tied under her chin, if the weather was bad. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 10 17:12:29 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA03821 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 17:12:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3AK8xX26627; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 14:08:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3AK8tV12029; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 14:08:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3AK5FV09908 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 14:05:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from PLUMB01 (bgp01007689bgs.plyntv01.mi.comcast.net [68.41.201.181]) by mtaout45-01.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built Feb 6 2002)) with SMTP id <0GUD00M8WBSNRA@mtaout45-01.icomcast.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:05:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Steve & Michelle Plumb To: "drewscph@post12.tele.dk" , historic costume group Message-id: <0GUD00M8XBSNRA@mtaout45-01.icomcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: PMMail 1.96a For OS/2 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: Normal Subject: [h-cost] pattern of Gustav III Wedding Dress Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: Steve & Michelle Plumb List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:04:39 -0400 Status: RO Sounds very tempting, Bjarne, but before I order, is there a photo of the Wedding Dress anywhere to be seen? Michelle ================================================================================ Steve & Michelle Plumb -- splumb225904MI@comcast.net Plymouth, Michigan USA "I'm sitting here completely surrounded by no beer!" ------------- Onslow, from "Keeping Up Appearances" ================================================================================ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 10 17:15:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA03858 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 17:15:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3AKCfX26962; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 14:12:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3AKCfV14285; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 14:12:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d10.mx.aol.com (imo-d10.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.42]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3AK6EV10468 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 14:06:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo-d10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.a5.25e6e380 (16337) for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:05:59 -0400 (EDT) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Message-ID: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Victorian Medieval To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_a5.25e6e380.29e5f527_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 118 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:05:59 EDT Status: RO --part1_a5.25e6e380.29e5f527_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/10/2002 2:12:51 AM Pacific Daylight Time, teddy1@mdx.ac.uk writes: > Italian-Ren Viking *really* appeals - I can picture some lovely fantasy > outfits that would fall into that category > I actually hadn't thought of portraiture costumes from the Victorian period, I don't know why it didn't occur. Does seem like we could have some serious fun with some cross-breeding of eras, though... Teddy, what about Egyptian Elizabethan? angela --part1_a5.25e6e380.29e5f527_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/10/2002 2:12:51 AM Pacific Daylight Time, teddy1@mdx.ac.uk writes:


Italian-Ren Viking *really* appeals - I can picture some lovely fantasy
outfits that would fall into that category

 I actually hadn't thought of portraiture costumes from the Victorian period, I don't know why it didn't occur.  Does seem like we could have some serious fun with some cross-breeding of eras, though... Teddy, what about Egyptian Elizabethan? 

angela

 --part1_a5.25e6e380.29e5f527_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 10 17:16:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA03862 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 17:16:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3AKCkX26987; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 14:12:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3AKCjV14337; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 14:12:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d02.mx.aol.com (imo-d02.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3AK9CV12178 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 14:09:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo-d02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.16c.bdd599e (16337) for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:08:58 -0400 (EDT) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Message-ID: <16c.bdd599e.29e5f5d9@aol.com> To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_16c.bdd599e.29e5f5d9_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 118 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Ebay, an amusing aside/OT Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:08:57 EDT Status: RO --part1_16c.bdd599e.29e5f5d9_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If any of you who have been discussing Ebay wish to have a giggle about costume or the lack thereof, visit this site briefly. > http://home.triad.rr.com/dbcfour/ebaynotice.htm > angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com Theatrical Costume Design "The naked truth of it is, I have no shirt." Love's Labours Lost, V, ii - W. Shakespeare --part1_16c.bdd599e.29e5f5d9_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If any of you who have been discussing Ebay wish to have a giggle about costume or the lack thereof, visit this site briefly.


http://home.triad.rr.com/dbcfour/ebaynotice.htm

angela
+++++
Angela F. Lazear
Cabbage Rose Costumes
http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com
Theatrical Costume Design

"The naked truth of it is, I have no shirt."
Love's Labours Lost, V, ii - W. Shakespeare
 --part1_16c.bdd599e.29e5f5d9_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 10 17:19:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA03877 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 17:18:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3AKFiX27406; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 14:15:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3AKFhV16162; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 14:15:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dc-mx07.cluster1.charter.net (dc-mx07.cluster0.hsacorp.net [209.225.8.17]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3AKAeV12956 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 14:10:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [66.188.127.221] (HELO laptop) by dc-mx07.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.3) with SMTP id 37181341 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:25:06 -0400 Message-ID: <005c01c1e0cb$d1600b80$dd7fbc42@mad.chartermi.net> From: "Rebecca Schmitt" To: References: <001d01c1e0bd$e97e64e0$953cb4d0@coxinternet.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] New to List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 15:10:53 -0500 Status: RO Hee hee - Hi Nancy! *waves* ********************** Rebecca Schmitt aka Mistress Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot, cod merchant of Bristol, BRF FOF So many books, so little time lotsofteapots@charter.net ********************** ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nancy DuPree" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 1:31 PM Subject: [h-cost] New to List > Hi, > > My name is Nancy and I am from Texas, USA. I have just joined this list. I > found out about it while taking Drea's 16th Century Woman's Dress class. I > am interested in Medieval and Renaissance clothing. > > Regards, > Nancy > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 10 17:31:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA03973 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 17:31:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3AKRqX28713; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 14:27:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3AKRkV23360; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 14:27:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r05.mx.aol.com (imo-r05.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.101]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3AKNqV21112 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 14:23:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LalahTT@aol.com by imo-r05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.10d.10646136 (4426) for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:23:37 -0400 (EDT) From: LalahTT@aol.com Message-ID: <10d.10646136.29e5f949@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Ebay, an amusing aside/OT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_10d.10646136.29e5f949_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10560 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:23:37 EDT Status: RO --part1_10d.10646136.29e5f949_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yuck. Some people look better covered up. Lalah Never Give up, Never Surrender, - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Looking for a great gift? Check out Beary Classy Bears at http://hometown.aol.com/bearyclassybears/myhomepage/sale.html --part1_10d.10646136.29e5f949_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yuck.  Some people look better covered up.

Lalah
Never Give up, Never Surrender,
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Looking for a great gift?  Check out Beary Classy Bears at
http://hometown.aol.com/bearyclassybears/myhomepage/sale.html

--part1_10d.10646136.29e5f949_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 10 17:59:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA04032 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 17:59:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3AKntX01198; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 14:49:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3AKnjV06047; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 14:49:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from b.smtp-out.sonic.net (b.smtp-out.sonic.net [208.201.224.39]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g3AKj7V03231 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 14:45:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 10432 invoked from network); 10 Apr 2002 20:40:46 -0000 Received: from prop.sonic.net (208.201.224.193) by b.smtp-out.sonic.net with SMTP; 10 Apr 2002 20:40:46 -0000 Received: from lavoltapress.com (d101.nas25.sonic.net [209.204.154.101]) by prop.sonic.net (8.11.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id g3AKj6f13358 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 13:45:06 -0700 X-envelope-info: Message-ID: <3CB4A4FA.977CC3F0@lavoltapress.com> From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] pattern of Gustav III Wedding Dress References: <0GUD00M8XBSNRA@mtaout45-01.icomcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 13:47:54 -0700 Status: RO Somehow I missed the original message. What is the pattern/publication and where can I buy it? Thanks, Fran Steve & Michelle Plumb wrote: > Sounds very tempting, Bjarne, but before I order, > is there a photo of the Wedding Dress anywhere to > be seen? > > Michelle > ================================================================================ > Steve & Michelle Plumb -- splumb225904MI@comcast.net > Plymouth, Michigan USA > > "I'm sitting here completely surrounded by no beer!" > > ------------- Onslow, from "Keeping Up Appearances" > ================================================================================ > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- --------------------------------------------- Visit our web pages! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and vintage dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 10 18:08:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA04076 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 18:08:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3AL5hX02861; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 15:05:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3AL5gV15158; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 15:05:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from carbon (carbon.btinternet.com [194.73.73.92]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3AL1WV12677 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 15:01:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host213-122-54-95.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.54.95] helo=dan) by carbon with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16vPDe-0006zK-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 22:01:30 +0100 Message-ID: <001901c1e0d3$0e38a880$5f367ad5@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: References: <39.254cbed9.29e5dd2c@aol.com> Subject: Re: impossible sleeves was Re: [h-cost] Re: the eBay dress MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 22:02:31 +0100 Status: RO Albert Cat wrote: > > > > <> > > > > > > > > > If added to the dress, it is. > > > > The point is that the square of jewels wasn't added to the dress. It > > was an integral part of it, and therefore wasn't an accessory. > > > > I'm sorry, I think we're just at odds in the definition department. I think > if the thing is interchangeable with other gowns....can be worn with more > than one gown....it's an accessory. Like collars and engagents in other > periods. They are an integral part of the outfit [like a hat even] but still > accessories. You're definition is perhaps too modern, I think. No, my definition isn't too modern; it's accurate. The Concise Oxford gives the following relevant definitions: accessory // n. & adj. (also accessary) n. (pl. -ies) 1 an additional or extra thing. 2 (usu. in pl.) a a small attachment or fitting. b a small item of (esp. a woman's) dress (e.g. shoes, gloves, handbag). There is an absolute distinction between an integral part of an object and something which is additional to that object. Accessory derives from the medieval Latin accessorius; if you wish I can provide the OED version. > > > <> > > > Which merely means a low neckline...not specifically off the > > shoulder. So yes > > > they did. > > > > But the portraits don't actually show a low neckline; there is no > > cleavage, nothing resembling earlier, and later low necklines. > I think those necklines, not being at the NECK but closer to the bottom of > the armseye, are low.....not plunging, but low. Mainly because there are > gowns with high necks, and partlets to fill in a LOW NECKLINE. There is no > cleavage because the corset pushes the breasts down, not up. Again...you're > thinking appears modern. Actually, verifiable corsets from that period are non-existent, and thus I am somewhat surprised by your apparent conviction that you know what the corsets actually did to the breasts. And since I am comparing the necklines with those which went before it and those which went after I fail to see how comparative comparison can be described as modern thinking. Perhaps you would explain what you mean by it. > > > < > > not relevant to 16th century England...>> > > > > > > > > > Nonsense. > > > > You've chosen not to attempt to respond to the example that I quoted > > of Elizabeth's workload, you've simply cut it and asserted that my > > comment is nonsense. If you would care to provide examples, and cite > > your sources, I'll be happy to comment. Simply saying "nonsense" > > doesn't hack it. > > The NOTION of the idle rich is > > NOT RELEVANT to 16th century England. > > I think this statement is nonsense, regardless of how much Queen Elizabeth or > Mary Queen of Scots ran around. Are you saying the idle rich didn't exist or > had zero influence in this period? You've cut your original comment about this style of dress. You said " [this] is not a dress in which much activity is going to be attempted. Indeed, such a garment proudly announces that you don't do anything!" I do appreciate that you are engaged in creative cutting since otherwise it would be more obvious to passing readers that you are flatly contradicting yourself, but it's only fair for me to point it out. Since you now concede that Elizabeth and others were required to do a great deal wearing that style of garment you are down to arguing about the "idle rich". The "idle rich" was a specific concept coined in the 19th century about a certain stage of capitalism; Marx wrote a very great deal, but in all of his voluminous output he never suggested that sixteenth century England harboured any class which could be so described. Which is why I pointed out that the notion of the idle rich is not relevant to 16th century England. ... Stevie Gamble _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 10 18:39:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA04230 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 18:39:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3ALZjX06187; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 15:35:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3ALZgV02555; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 15:35:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3ALUJV29321 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 15:30:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.127.194]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GUD00C1PFQISO@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 14:30:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Ebay, an amusing aside/OT In-reply-to: <16c.bdd599e.29e5f5d9@aol.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020410142612.05004650@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 14:27:08 -0700 Status: RO >If any of you who have been discussing Ebay wish to have a giggle about >costume or the lack thereof, visit this site briefly. > > >>http://home.triad.rr.com/dbcfour/ebaynotice.htm Where I come from, no costume is no costume. So while I did get a giggle out of this one, you're right about it being OT. Thanks for posting it. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 10 18:40:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA04244 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 18:40:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3ALb4X06344; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 15:37:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3ALahV03179; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 15:36:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3ALUKV29326 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 15:30:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.127.194]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GUD00C1PFQISO@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 14:30:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] pattern of Gustav III Wedding Dress In-reply-to: <3CB43857.E03758CD@post12.tele.dk> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020410142735.0500ad50@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 14:28:39 -0700 Status: RO The site's all in Danish! I saw the dress, but where's the pattern? >Hi. Sorry for the crossposting! > >I just want to inform all you 18th.century freaks like me, that The >Royal Armory of Sweden, Livrustkammaren has published a pattern of the >Wedding Dress of Gustav III. It was made for him in Paris. You can buy >your copy of it from their website: >Jeanette Danielson >Enhetschef/Head of Department >Publika enheten/Public Department >Livrustkammaren/The Royal Armoury >Slottsbacken 3 >S-111 30 Stockholm >Sweden >tel: +46(0)851955508 >fax: +46(0)851955511 >e-mail: jeanette.danielson@lsh.se >www.livrustkammaren.nu > >The price for the pattern is a little pricey, 350 swedish kr. but it is >such an exquisite garment. >Now i know what i am going to make next time............ > >Bjarne Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 10 19:07:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04436 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 19:07:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3AM2jX09009; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:02:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3AM2hV18213; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:02:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailjaya.creighton.edu (MailjayA.creighton.edu [147.134.2.126]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3ALx7V16123 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 15:59:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from brujne (Cindy-Abel.creighton.edu [147.134.201.85]) by mailjaya.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_18546)/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA14244 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:59:04 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <002e01c1e0da$d528d580$55c98693@creighton.edu> From: "Cynthia Abel" To: References: <010001c1e052$51ee5b00$0300a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> <010001c1e052$51ee5b00$0300a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> <4.3.1.2.20020410114504.0500c210@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] British Women & Hats MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:58:10 -0500 Status: RO I caught most of the Queen Mum's funeral later on C-span. She is the one royal hardly anyone criticises aside from her hats. But being a tiny lady and not being able to wear high fashion, she wore what she liked and it was her own style. We won't see her like again because of all the media pressure to be reed-thin and look and dress a certain way. I am a hat lover myself, but because of budget constraits, being very short, and general hat fit, seldom find just what I what that looks right for my build and long face shape plus an affordable price, I seldom can buy for warm weather. Mine are mostly to shield me from the sun and cover the frequent bad hair days resulting from a combo of thin, fine, limp hair unsuccessfully duelling with Nebraska winds. I just like hats anyway, but should have minded my grandmother's directive to always wear gloves, as my hands are starting to look older than the rest of me Cindy Abel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 10 19:10:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04455 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 19:10:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3AM6wX09457; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:06:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3AM6mV20691; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:06:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f164.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.164]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3AM3iV18795 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:03:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 15:03:38 -0700 Received: from 65.70.196.188 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 22:03:38 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.70.196.188] From: "Mary Temple" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] New to List Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Apr 2002 22:03:38.0622 (UTC) FILETIME=[9179C1E0:01C1E0DB] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 22:03:38 Status: RO Hi Nancy! Where in Texas? Mary/Katerine (in hazy and lower 80's F Austin, Texas) >Hi, > >My name is Nancy and I am from Texas, USA. I have just joined this list. >I >found out about it while taking Drea's 16th Century Woman's Dress class. I >am interested in Medieval and Renaissance clothing. > >Regards, >Nancy > > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 10 19:26:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04529 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 19:26:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3AMN0X11035; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:23:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3AMMtV29510; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:22:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailjaya.creighton.edu (MailjayA.creighton.edu [147.134.2.126]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3AMINV27067 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:18:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from brujne (Cindy-Abel.creighton.edu [147.134.201.85]) by mailjaya.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_18546)/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA20468 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 17:18:19 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <003701c1e0dd$849906a0$55c98693@creighton.edu> From: "Cynthia Abel" To: References: <3CB405A9.9942.12B719A5@localhost> Subject: Re: [h-cost] : impossible sleeves was MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 17:17:29 -0500 Status: RO Have you had a look at Jean Hunnisett's "Period Costume for Stage and Screen?" Her pattern for the Tudor hanging sleeves has the sleeve(especially the upper part)cut on the cross(bias) so that the upper sleeve will fit tightly, but still have some flexibility being cut on the bias. I know it works for the dolls I've dressed, but don't know if it will work for people. The bias cut is tricky, but the doll sleeves I've done hang perfectly. For a doll with the correct arm curve, the hanging sleeve is a wonderful solution, the bias cut seems to help the sleeve hang down nicely, plus spread out as seen in many portraits. I've modified that pattern by cutting an underarm gusset to the correct size and shape. To experiment--do a mock-up of one sleeve and then do a rough gusset, testing movement(to get the best fit/movement ratio possible). Then draw up the mock gussett in its final form(I use sew-in interfacing as it makes great pattern pieces and can be basted), bearing in mind your real material and lining(s). You may want to reinforce the upper sleeve with a lining or interlining material that is sturdy enough to take the weight of the entire sleeve. Cindy Abel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 10 19:36:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04559 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 19:36:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3AMWpX12252; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:32:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3AMWlV05214; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:32:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com (imo-d06.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.38]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3AMS2V02613 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:28:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.51.1c3469bf (4396) for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 18:27:45 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <51.1c3469bf.29e61661@aol.com> Subject: Re: impossible sleeves was Re: [h-cost] Re: the eBay dress To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_51.1c3469bf.29e61661_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10560 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 18:27:45 EDT Status: RO --part1_51.1c3469bf.29e61661_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/10/2002 5:06:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, stevie.gamble@btinternet.com writes: > b a small item of > (esp. a woman's) dress (e.g. shoes, gloves, handbag). > > or in some periods: engagents, caps, stomachers, and jeweles guards. --part1_51.1c3469bf.29e61661_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/10/2002 5:06:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, stevie.gamble@btinternet.com writes:


b a small item of
(esp. a woman's) dress (e.g. shoes, gloves, handbag).



or in some periods: engagents, caps, stomachers, and jeweles guards. --part1_51.1c3469bf.29e61661_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 10 19:36:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04563 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 19:36:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3AMXCX12336; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:33:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3AMX9V05476; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:33:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from eros.cox-internet.com (eros-tca.cox-internet.com [208.180.118.48]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3AMSKV02783 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:28:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jd92601 ([208.180.60.149]) by eros.cox-internet.com (InterMail vK.4.03.05.00 201-232-132 license 180e1de7f543f89455b24e508f9cca39) with SMTP id <20020410222941.SJQB3575.eros@jd92601> for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 17:29:41 -0500 Message-ID: <004501c1e0de$fa77c7c0$953cb4d0@coxinternet.com> From: "Nancy DuPree" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] New to List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 17:28:01 -0500 Status: RO Hi Mary/Katherine, I am back in San Angelo (West Texas) now. My husband and I lived for three years in Victoria -- not far from Austin. San Angelo is home for both of us -- it is good to be back, for however long it lasts! Regards, Nancy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Temple" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 10:03 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] New to List > Hi Nancy! > > Where in Texas? > > Mary/Katerine > (in hazy and lower 80's F Austin, Texas) > > >Hi, > > > >My name is Nancy and I am from Texas, USA. I have just joined this list. > >I > >found out about it while taking Drea's 16th Century Woman's Dress class. I > >am interested in Medieval and Renaissance clothing. > > > >Regards, > >Nancy > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >h-costume mailing list > >h-costume@mail.indra.com > >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 10 19:36:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04568 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 19:36:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3AMXaX12389; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:33:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3AMXVV05716; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:33:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3AMStV03070 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:28:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) id PAA00877 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 15:47:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200204102247.PAA00877@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: keeping hats on (was Re: [h-cost] British Women & Hats Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 15:47:24 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO > From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows [...] > Make your own hat pins out of ' piano wire', available at old fashioned > hobby stores but not modern craft stores. It's springy wire, and comes in > 36" pieces, good for 3-4 hat pins. Cut it somehow (it's really tough) and > sharpen one end with a file. Try the newly sharpened point thru a sweater, > to make sure you've got all the rough edges off it. For those who hate sharpening pin points, you can buy hatpin shafts already cut to 12" lengths and properly sharpened from Lacis. If your hat is small, you can cut the shaft down to an 8" length with a large pair of wire cutters. >Kink the unsharpened > end into a very small 'U' so you can wire a large shank-button onto > it. After wiring the button on, use glue to keep the wire and button shank > in position. Beads are also good for hat pin ends. Sometimes I can find > glass thingeys which are not quite beads, which are are flat and have a > hole partway into them. These are perfect for the ends of hat pins. Ornamental resources sells flat hatpin toppers, half-drilled beads and half-drilled teardrops for use on hatpins. If you use these, don't kink the wire, just glue the finding to the top of the shaft. Experimentation indicates that clear epoxy is best, since superglue shatters under stress. If you're like me and grasp the hatpin by the topper, epoxy is the way to go. I've also kinked the top of the shaft into a tiny loop, then run beads up to that point and glued them. Not as "period" but you have many more options that way. Ornamental Resources: http://www.ornabead.com/ You'll need Adobe Acrobat reader to use this site properly. Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 10 19:37:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04574 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 19:37:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3AMXtX12432; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:33:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3AMXqV05915; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:33:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from eros.cox-internet.com (eros-tca.cox-internet.com [208.180.118.48]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3AMTeV03506 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:29:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jd92601 ([208.180.60.149]) by eros.cox-internet.com (InterMail vK.4.03.05.00 201-232-132 license 180e1de7f543f89455b24e508f9cca39) with SMTP id <20020410223101.SKMQ3575.eros@jd92601> for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 17:31:01 -0500 Message-ID: <004f01c1e0df$2a09d1e0$953cb4d0@coxinternet.com> From: "Nancy DuPree" To: References: <001d01c1e0bd$e97e64e0$953cb4d0@coxinternet.com> <005c01c1e0cb$d1600b80$dd7fbc42@mad.chartermi.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] New to List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 17:29:22 -0500 Status: RO Hi Rebecca, How are you doing on your projects? Regards, Nancy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rebecca Schmitt" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 3:10 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] New to List > Hee hee - Hi Nancy! *waves* > > ********************** > Rebecca Schmitt > aka Mistress Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot, cod merchant of > Bristol, > BRF FOF > > So many books, so little time > > lotsofteapots@charter.net > ********************** > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Nancy DuPree" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 1:31 PM > Subject: [h-cost] New to List > > > > Hi, > > > > My name is Nancy and I am from Texas, USA. I have just joined this list. > I > > found out about it while taking Drea's 16th Century Woman's Dress class. > I > > am interested in Medieval and Renaissance clothing. > > > > Regards, > > Nancy > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 10 19:44:16 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04599 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 19:44:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3AMemX13271; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:40:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3AMehV09436; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:40:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r03.mx.aol.com (imo-r03.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.99]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3AMaDV07165 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:36:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.57.9afe284 (4396) for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 18:36:01 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <57.9afe284.29e61851@aol.com> Subject: Re: impossible sleeves was Re: [h-cost] Re: the eBay dress To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_57.9afe284.29e61851_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10560 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 18:36:01 EDT Status: RO --part1_57.9afe284.29e61851_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/10/2002 5:06:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, stevie.gamble@btinternet.com writes: > and > thus I am somewhat surprised by your apparent conviction that you know > what the corsets actually did to the breasts. C'mon! I can look at portraits. And when they do smash them down on actresses wearing, say, a corset based on Dorthea Sabina von Neuburg's "pair of bodies" from her tomb, plus the shape of other existing gowns of the period, it tends to look like the portraits. Not a scientific approach, to be sure. But it's not an outrageous leap to think this is what happened. --part1_57.9afe284.29e61851_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/10/2002 5:06:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, stevie.gamble@btinternet.com writes:


and
thus I am somewhat surprised by your apparent conviction that you know
what the corsets actually did to the breasts.


C'mon! I can look at portraits. And when they do smash them down on actresses wearing, say, a corset based on Dorthea Sabina von Neuburg's "pair of bodies" from her tomb, plus the shape of other existing gowns of the period, it tends to look like the portraits. Not a scientific approach, to be sure. But it's not an outrageous leap to think this is what happened. --part1_57.9afe284.29e61851_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 10 19:54:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04649 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 19:54:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3AMohX14081; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:50:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3AMogV14696; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:50:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3AMk8V12472 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:46:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [136.152.196.25] (as3-4-39.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.25]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.10.2) with ESMTP id g3AMk6r16754 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 15:46:06 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <002e01c1e0da$d528d580$55c98693@creighton.edu> References: <010001c1e052$51ee5b00$0300a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> <010001c1e052$51ee5b00$0300a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> <4.3.1.2.20020410114504.0500c210@mail.frys.com> <002e01c1e0da$d528d580$55c98693@creighton.edu> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] British Women & Hats Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 15:31:47 -0700 Status: RO At 4:58 PM -0500 4/10/02, Cynthia Abel wrote: >I am a hat lover myself, but because of budget constraits, being very short, >and general hat fit, seldom find just what I what that looks right for my >build and long face shape plus an affordable price, I seldom can buy for >warm weather. Just thought I'd mention, if any hat-lovers are ever in the Berkeley (CA) area, you _must_ check out the Berkeley Hat Company (on Telegraph Ave., half a dozen blocks from campus). You'll think you've died and gone to heaven. One of its specialties seems to be the extremely ornate style I strongly associate with the Sunday-go-to-church dress of my (largely African-American) neighbors. Now there's a community that understands the vital importance of hats. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 10 19:56:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04663 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 19:56:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3AMriX14369; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:53:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3AMrhV16295; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:53:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r03.mx.aol.com (imo-r03.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.99]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3AMoBV14485 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:50:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.5b.25fb6043 (4396) for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 18:49:50 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <5b.25fb6043.29e61b8d@aol.com> Subject: Re: impossible sleeves was Re: [h-cost] Re: the eBay dress To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_5b.25fb6043.29e61b8d_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10560 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 18:49:49 EDT Status: RO --part1_5b.25fb6043.29e61b8d_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/10/2002 5:06:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, stevie.gamble@btinternet.com writes: > I do appreciate that you are engaged in creative cutting since > otherwise it would be more obvious to passing readers that you are > flatly contradicting yourself, but it's only fair for me to point it > out. > I did no cutting to spin my meaning. The "idle rich" may be a term coined in the 19th century but it still does not mean they did not exist in other times. Nor does it imply they had no influence then. You seem to think these gowns with elaborate sleeves and jewels were, I don't know, worn for hunting or playing tennis! Shoot, QE II doesn't do that much when she does her thing today! The type of gown I thought we were discussing was a court [not tennis court] gown. I don't think I've seen those huge cuffed Tudor sleeves [remember, this is what we're talking about....not just jewels] on riding habits and outfits of that ilk. And these gowns not only convey that one had others do things for one; one MUST have others dress and attend one because it's simply impossible to do a lot of activity in such a costume. I stand by what I've said. You may of course think I'm wrong. I am no Elizabethan scholar. But I do make costumes and I've found that a tight armseye will work and stay in place if there isn't too much waving of arms. --part1_5b.25fb6043.29e61b8d_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/10/2002 5:06:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, stevie.gamble@btinternet.com writes:


I do appreciate that you are engaged in creative cutting since
otherwise it would be more obvious to passing readers that you are
flatly contradicting yourself, but it's only fair for me to point it
out.

I did no cutting to spin my meaning.

The "idle rich" may be a term coined in the 19th century but it still does not mean they did not exist in other times. Nor does it imply they had no influence then.

You seem to think these gowns with elaborate sleeves and jewels were, I don't know, worn for hunting or playing tennis! Shoot, QE II doesn't do that much when she does her thing today! The type of gown I thought we were discussing was a court [not tennis court] gown. I don't think I've seen those huge cuffed Tudor sleeves [remember, this is what we're talking about....not just jewels] on riding habits and outfits of that ilk. And these gowns not only convey that one had others do things for one; one MUST have others dress and attend one because it's simply impossible to do a lot of activity in such a costume.

I stand by what I've said. You may of course think I'm wrong. I am no Elizabethan scholar. But I do make costumes and I've found that a tight armseye will work and stay in place if there isn't too much waving of arms. --part1_5b.25fb6043.29e61b8d_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 10 22:54:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA05755 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 22:54:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3B1onX26730; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 19:50:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3B1okV23289; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 19:50:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp1.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net (smtp1.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net [206.210.69.141]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g3B1jbV21748 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 19:45:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 13019 invoked from network); 11 Apr 2002 01:45:35 -0000 Received: from 206-105-173-186.inetone.net (HELO inetone.net) (206.105.173.186) by smtp1.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net with SMTP; 11 Apr 2002 01:45:35 -0000 Message-ID: <3CB4EC18.AF9BF2B5@inetone.net> From: Dhannti X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] New to List References: <001d01c1e0bd$e97e64e0$953cb4d0@coxinternet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 21:51:20 -0400 Status: RO Nancy DuPree wrote: > > Hi, > > My name is Nancy and I am from Texas, USA. I have just joined this list. I > found out about it while taking Drea's 16th Century Woman's Dress class. I > am interested in Medieval and Renaissance clothing. > Hi Nancy, Nice to see you here. Di. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 10 22:54:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA05759 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 22:54:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3B1pLX26760; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 19:51:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3B1pJV23469; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 19:51:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from eros.cox-internet.com (eros-tca.cox-internet.com [208.180.118.48]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3B1jtV21834 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 19:45:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jd92601 ([208.180.60.149]) by eros.cox-internet.com (InterMail vK.4.03.05.00 201-232-132 license 180e1de7f543f89455b24e508f9cca39) with SMTP id <20020411014716.YDIH3575.eros@jd92601> for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 20:47:16 -0500 Message-ID: <000701c1e0fa$9699eb40$953cb4d0@coxinternet.com> From: "Nancy DuPree" To: References: <001d01c1e0bd$e97e64e0$953cb4d0@coxinternet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Subject: [h-cost] Renaissance Shopping Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 20:45:41 -0500 Status: RO Well, I was naughty and went to The Pillaged Village site to look around. Wound up spending money, of course. I have wanted Period Patterns Early Tudor Gowns for a long time, so I bought that. It will be a good reference, I think. I really liked the Tudor Underwear pattern which I have had for awhile. Besides that, I got some wooden spoons and some small anglets for my corset. I suppose I ought to think about rejoining the SCA, so I will have somewhere to wear the clothes I want to make. If I don't make garb for me, I will have to start making Renaissance clothing for my Gene Marshal doll. Night All, Nan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 10 23:49:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA06418 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 23:49:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3B2jqX00114; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 20:45:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3B2jjV10179; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 20:45:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3B2dSV08348 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 20:39:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup-209.246.107.128.dial1.newyork1.level3.net ([209.246.107.128] helo=earthlink.net) by falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16vUUg-0000hE-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 19:39:27 -0700 Message-ID: <3CB4D044.1070901@earthlink.net> From: A F Murphy User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011128 Netscape6/6.2.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: keeping hats on (was Re: [h-cost] British Women & Hats References: <010001c1e052$51ee5b00$0300a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> <4.3.1.2.20020410111718.00c269b0@mail.frys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 19:52:36 -0400 Status: RO Actually, I have, and wear, hat pins! But they don't work that well on modern hats, at least in a stiff breeze... I've had the brim catch the wind, and the whole hat sort of flap! My period? Well, very early 21st century, I guess... *G* Or late 20th, because I'm talking mostly about hats I tried to wear a few years ago. I'm talking more about contemporary dress, here, than costume. I have not tended to wear historic costume, but rather put it on a stage (and there, I'm not worrying as much about wind, usually. I've only done a few summer theatre shows, and I didn't have any trouble with the hats in Waiting for Godot... they fit quite nicely!) I did just find the hats I made for The Importance of Being Ernest. They perched quite nicely, because I made them! Maybe I need to just start making my own? Anne Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > >> I not only have smooth hair, but I tend to wear it up, so I need a >> hat to sort of perch. > > >> They blow off, they interfere with my vision driving, I stopped >> wearing them... > > > Use hat pins. The pin goes in thru the hat, thru your hair, and out > the other side of the hat. That way the hat won't fall off. Use two > pins if you need to. > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 11 00:11:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA06875 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 00:11:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3B37nX01580; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 21:07:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3B37lV16828; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 21:07:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dc-mx08.cluster1.charter.net (dc-mx08.cluster0.hsacorp.net [209.225.8.18]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3B33wV15656 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 21:04:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [66.188.127.221] (HELO laptop) by dc-mx08.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.3) with SMTP id 37326550 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 23:03:56 -0400 Message-ID: <001201c1e105$87941700$dd7fbc42@mad.chartermi.net> From: "Rebecca Schmitt" To: References: <001d01c1e0bd$e97e64e0$953cb4d0@coxinternet.com> <005c01c1e0cb$d1600b80$dd7fbc42@mad.chartermi.net> <004f01c1e0df$2a09d1e0$953cb4d0@coxinternet.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] New to List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 22:03:59 -0500 Status: RO Oh, dear, lets not talk about that, shall we? I'm a bit behind :-( > > Hi Rebecca, > How are you doing on your projects? > Regards, > Nancy ********************** Rebecca Schmitt aka Mistress Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot, cod merchant of Bristol, BRF FOF So many books, so little time lotsofteapots@charter.net ********************** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 11 00:55:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA07502 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 00:55:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3B3pNX03984; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 21:51:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3B3pJV29212; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 21:51:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f168.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.168]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3B3kWV27785 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 21:46:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 20:46:27 -0700 Received: from 68.6.212.114 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 03:46:26 GMT X-Originating-IP: [68.6.212.114] From: "jessica stier" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Apr 2002 03:46:27.0164 (UTC) FILETIME=[754831C0:01C1E10B] Subject: [h-cost] OT - Newbie Intro Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 03:46:26 Status: RO Hello Everyone! I am a newbie to this list. I learned about it while taking Drea's 16 Century Women's dress class (Hi, Nancy!). I am very excited to glean as much information as I can and hopefully, I may be able offer some. I am relatively new to historical costuming. I just finished putting my husband through college, working accounting. Now it's my turn to go back to school and I realized I didn't want to study Marine Bio anymore. I realized that I loved making costumes for all occasions. So now, in preparation for going back to school next winter, I am learning as much as I can right now. I love Ren Faire's and think I am destined to be in the SCA so I have somewhere to where all of these ideas/creations, but not in it yet. I live in San Diego, CA and really look forward to being a member of this list. :) Jessica _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 11 02:53:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA04797 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 02:53:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3B5ohX09356; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 23:50:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3B5ofV01153; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 23:50:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r05.mx.aol.com (imo-r05.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.101]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3B5jxV29793 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 23:46:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Osmondia@aol.com by imo-r05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.b4.9bdc99a (30960) for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 01:45:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Osmondia@aol.com Message-ID: Subject: Re: [h-cost] British Women & Hats To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 118 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 01:45:48 EDT Status: RO Regarding the hats with scarves...I just saw them at Walmart in Seattle so they are probably in other ones. Osmonida _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 11 03:34:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA05763 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 03:34:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3B6UhX10684; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 00:30:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3B6UfV10162; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 00:30:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com (dl.mixmeister.net [66.210.221.206]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3B6PZV09114 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 00:25:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cc261386a [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id AC84267019E; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 01:26:12 -0500 Message-ID: <013501c1e121$90b78080$0300a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] British Women & Hats X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 02:24:41 -0400 Status: RO Thanks Osmonida! I will check there. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 1:45 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] British Women & Hats > Regarding the hats with scarves...I just saw them at Walmart in Seattle so > they are probably in other ones. > > Osmonida --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by plugit.com] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 11 04:00:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA06087 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 04:00:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3B6vgX11528; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 00:57:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3B6vfV16517; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 00:57:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ivsmtp02la.mail2world.com (ivsmtp02la.mail2world.com [66.28.189.73]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3B6rVV15548 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 00:53:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ivweb03la (unverified [10.1.200.104]) by ivsmtp02la.mail2world.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.6) with ESMTP id for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 23:51:54 -0700 thread-index: AcHhJV2tn5ski41FQyuErNdDWFy9/g== Thread-Topic: [h-cost] pattern of Gustav III Wedding Dress From: "ruiyin" To: Cc: Subject: Re: [h-cost] pattern of Gustav III Wedding Dress Message-ID: <0d3f01c1e125$5dad1bb0$0ec8a8c0@mail2world.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0D40_01C1E0EA.B14E43B0" X-Mailer: Microsoft CDO for Exchange 2000 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message Importance: normal Priority: normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 23:51:54 -0700 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0D40_01C1E0EA.B14E43B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > The site's all in Danish! I saw the dress, but where's the pattern? Apparently you were on the right page, there is no picture of the pattern itself, you can order it at the page with the picture of the original costume. (Go to Livrustkammaren, then Butiken and then where it says Nyhet! Gustav.....) The site is in Swedish actually, in the Livrustkammaren page you can choose the English version but I think information on the pattern is only in Swedish. If you're in the US and want to order it, be prepared to spend a lot of money -- 350 kr is an expensive price to start with. Sure looks tempting though. Riina (in Finland) _______________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE email account at iVillage.com! http://webmail.ivillage.com/ ------=_NextPart_000_0D40_01C1E0EA.B14E43B0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows
> The site's all in Danish! I saw the dress, but where's the pattern?

Apparently you were on the right page, there is no picture of the pattern itself, you can order it at the page with the picture of the original costume.
(Go to Livrustkammaren, then Butiken and then where it says Nyhet! Gustav.....) The site is in Swedish actually, in the Livrustkammaren page you can choose the English version but I think information on the pattern is only in Swedish.

If you're in the US and want to order it, be prepared to spend a lot of money -- 350 kr is an expensive price to start with. Sure looks tempting though.

Riina
(in Finland)
_______________________________________________________________
Get your own FREE email account at iVillage.com!
http://webmail.ivillage.com/ ------=_NextPart_000_0D40_01C1E0EA.B14E43B0-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 11 04:52:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA07141 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 04:52:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3B7mgX13314; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 01:48:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3B7mfV27841; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 01:48:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3B7hPV26768 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 01:43:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.127.194]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GUE004E584BWL@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 00:43:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: keeping hats on (was Re: [h-cost] British Women & Hats In-reply-to: <3CB4D044.1070901@earthlink.net> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020411003232.04f71980@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <010001c1e052$51ee5b00$0300a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> <4.3.1.2.20020410111718.00c269b0@mail.frys.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 00:33:59 -0700 Status: RO >Actually, I have, and wear, hat pins! But they don't work that well on >modern hats, at least in a stiff breeze... I've had the brim catch the >wind, and the whole hat sort of flap! Use two hatpins, one in front and one in back, so the hat doesn't fly off. And wire the brim of the hat so it isn't so floppy. And hey - late 20th century is history by now ;) Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 11 04:52:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA07145 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 04:52:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3B7mxX13331; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 01:48:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3B7mxV27926; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 01:48:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3B7hQV26772 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 01:43:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.127.194]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GUE004E584BWL@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 00:43:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] pattern of Gustav III Wedding Dress In-reply-to: <0d3f01c1e125$5dad1bb0$0ec8a8c0@mail2world.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020411003514.04f728c0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 00:42:37 -0700 Status: RO > > The site's all in Danish! I saw the dress, but where's the pattern? > >Apparently you were on the right page, I speak so little 'Scandinavian' that I don't know Swedish from Danish if I see it written. >If you're in the US and want to order it, be prepared to spend a lot of >money -- 350 kr is an expensive price to start with. Sure looks tempting >though. It can probably be done starting with one of the Janet Arnold patterns. But I'd rather see it than make it, because there isn't much call for Swedish Baroque (or is it Rococo?) here in California. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 11 06:04:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA08157 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 06:04:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3B91iX16270; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 03:01:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3B91fV14102; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 03:01:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fepF.post.tele.dk (fepF.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.135]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3B8wxV13580 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 02:58:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from post12.tele.dk ([62.243.47.180]) by fepF.post.tele.dk (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20020411085857.XERY16199.fepF.post.tele.dk@post12.tele.dk> for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 10:58:57 +0200 Message-ID: <3CB55094.91DF5DBA@post12.tele.dk> From: Leif Drews X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Gustav III wedding suit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 11:00:06 +0200 Status: RO Dear list. Sorry of your difficulties, it is in swedish. Well you go to: http://livrustkammaren.nu/ then you click on the link to the left marked livrustkammaren, then you click on "butiken" (the shop) When you have come so far, you click on "nyhet" (news) mønstret til GustavIII's franska brøllupsdrakt. (the pattern for Gustav III's wedding suit) it is written in light grey!!! Then there is a picture of it. You can order when you click on the light grey text "Bestall mønsteret" (order the pattern) The text to the suit says: The swedish crownprince, Gustafs weddingdress was exhibited december 2001 - february 2002 at an exhibition in Paris. It was the swedish culturedepartment in Paris - Centre Culturel Suedois who together with the Livrustkammaren in Stockholm in this way showed one of the 18th century most outstanding costumes, perhaps the most exquisite. Now the Livrustkammaren has made an excact draft of the wedding suit. The pattern wich is unique in its kind has ben made by Gerard Aroyan, who is a tailor at the Royal Operahouse. The pattern is given in Gustav III own size and it is printed on two pieces of paper in a manner inspired from Gersaults, L'art du tailleur. The Crownprince was a size in average hight about 165 cm. and with a nowadays gentlemans size of 46-48. Informations about the seams is in swedish and french. The 4th of november 1766 there was a celebration of the crownprince's wedding with the same aged danish princesse, Sofia Magdalena. The bridegrom was dressed in a fashionable habit a la francaise, consisting of a jacket, waistcoat and trousers, made of drap d'argent moire with a fantastic aplicationembroidery in metal foil, gold spangels and gold thread. Shining symbols of suns, rising from bluish skyes. It was the swedish embassador in Paris, Count Gustav Phillip Creutz, who arranged the work for the suit. He let the french firm, Le Roux & De la Salle for the fabrics and the embroideries. The result was admired by all Paris,"anything that beautifull was never seen before", wrote the proud Creutz to the Crownprince. The pattern is made with a co-operation betwen Livrustkammaren and Cortorama Nordica, AB and with contributes from Marcus and Amalia Wallenbergs comemmoration. This is my own translation from Swedish to English, Swedish is not my native language, so i hope you will forgive me, if it is not perfect. I hope you will enjoy. This i want to make for myself, next year - yeahhhh!!!! Bjarne -- Leif Drews boulevard 5, 3 th 1635 København V Bjarne Drews boulevard 5,3.th 1635 København V tlf. 35 37 13 70 My new domain name: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk Homepage: http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/~DeeDee_Revia/1index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 11 06:26:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA08420 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 06:26:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3B9NiX16759; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 03:23:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3B9NhV03699; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 03:23:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fepA.post.tele.dk (fepA.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.143]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3B9JDV13169 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 03:19:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from post12.tele.dk ([62.243.47.180]) by fepA.post.tele.dk (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20020411091912.UGA1822.fepA.post.tele.dk@post12.tele.dk> for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 11:19:12 +0200 Message-ID: <3CB55555.9888E465@post12.tele.dk> From: Leif Drews X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] humour Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 11:20:21 +0200 Status: RO This is off topic, but i have to tell you....... I joined a list at yahoo called Images of Marie Antoinette. I thoaght i was joining some interresting discussions about her life and time. Wouldnt you know it, it is a pornografic fetish thingy, not at all historical. Now i must sign off again........ Bjarne -- Leif Drews boulevard 5, 3 th 1635 København V Bjarne Drews boulevard 5,3.th 1635 København V tlf. 35 37 13 70 My new domain name: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk Homepage: http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/~DeeDee_Revia/1index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 11 06:27:00 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA08427 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 06:26:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3B9NsX16779; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 03:23:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3B9NrV03784; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 03:23:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3B9JNV13931 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 03:19:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KGFMRV8N68014F24@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 10:21:43 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk ([158.94.56.3]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KGFMRTB8HG012IWL@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 10:21:40 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Thu, 11 Apr 2002 10:18:15 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Thu, 11 Apr 2002 10:18:06 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.77) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 10:18:00 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Victorian Medieval In-reply-to: <200204102141.g3ALfCV05741@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <924682D1A08@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 10:18:00 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > I actually hadn't thought of portraiture costumes from the > Victorian period, I don't know why it didn't occur. Does seem like > we could have some serious fun with some cross-breeding of eras, > though... Teddy, what about Egyptian Elizabethan? Oooh yes! I was looking at some beautiful metalic-striped fabric in a friend's stash last night that was vaguely Egyptian if held with the stripes horizontal and what I referred to as "Space-age victorian" with the stripes vertical.... Something like that used for Egyprian Elizabethan would be stunning. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 11 06:38:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA08607 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 06:38:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3B9ZgX17089; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 03:35:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3B9ZfV06684; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 03:35:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3B9VeV05822 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 03:31:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from melaniew (213-78-73-233.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.73.233]) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AFK41029; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 10:30:56 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <001901c1e13c$2338d8e0$e9494ed5@melaniew> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Victorian Medieval MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 10:34:53 +0100 Status: RO At our last Victorian weekend we had a medieval banquet which was fun, esp as we all do medieval anyway, so a nice chance for fantasy gothic style :) Mel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 11 06:38:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA08611 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 06:38:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3B9ZoX17099; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 03:35:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3B9ZoV06734; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 03:35:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3B9W6V05906 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 03:32:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KGFN7ZQFE800ULH0@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 10:34:43 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk ([158.94.56.3]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KGFN7YQWDW012IWL@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 10:34:41 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Thu, 11 Apr 2002 10:31:17 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Thu, 11 Apr 2002 10:30:28 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.77) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 10:30:19 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] pattern of Gustav III Wedding Dress In-reply-to: <200204110250.g3B2oIV11676@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <9249CFA18EE@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 10:30:19 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > The site's all in Danish! I saw the dress, but where's the pattern? More likely Swedish..... but even so, I didn't go looking for the dress as I only know three words in Swedish and I don't think "Hello" and Thanks" are very useful for navigating that site. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 11 06:44:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA08715 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 06:44:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3B9ffX17191; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 03:41:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3B9feV08054; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 03:41:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3B9aEV06815 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 03:36:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.127.194]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GUE003IADCDEE@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 02:36:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gustav III wedding suit In-reply-to: <3CB55094.91DF5DBA@post12.tele.dk> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020411022237.04fb7100@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 02:36:04 -0700 Status: RO >Sorry of your difficulties, it is in Swedish. >Well you go to: http://livrustkammaren.nu/ The dress on the 'livrustkammaren' page must have dazzled my brain. Gustav III wouldn't have worn any dress. (I knew that. Really I did.) Thank you for the pointer to the correct page. And you're right about the suit. No wonder you want it. And don't worry about your translation. English may not be your native language, but your English is infinitely better than my Swedish (did I say I don't speak or read Swedish?). I couldn't have translated it with a Swedish dictionary in my hand. Thank you for translating for us. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 11 06:56:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA08967 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 06:56:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3B9rhX17466; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 03:53:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3B9rgV10777; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 03:53:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net ([64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3B9nKV09858 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 03:49:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.127.194]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GUE00LMUDXNG4@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 02:49:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Victorian Medieval In-reply-to: <924682D1A08@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020411023755.04fb0ac0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <200204102141.g3ALfCV05741@net.indra.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 02:48:21 -0700 Status: RO > > I actually hadn't thought of portraiture costumes from the > > Victorian period, I don't know why it didn't occur. Does seem like > > we could have some serious fun with some cross-breeding of eras, > > though... Teddy, what about Egyptian Elizabethan? > >Oooh yes! I was looking at some beautiful metalic-striped fabric in >a friend's stash last night that was vaguely Egyptian if held with the >stripes horizontal and what I referred to as "Space-age victorian" >with the stripes vertical.... Something like that used for Egyprian >Elizabethan would be stunning. My favorite cross-period hybrid is early 1920's doing Georgian. There is a children's book called 'The Real Mother Goose', illustrated by Blanche Fisher Wright (probably actually from the 19-teens) which is full of these hybrids. Victorian fancy dress and Renaissance 'Greek/Roman' or 'Biblical' costumes are pretty interesting too. And weren't Italian Ren. (men and women) and Regency (women) costumes their idea of copies of togas? BTW, on page 248 of the Dover 'Harper's Bazar 1867-1898' book there is an 1893 'Egyptian'. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 11 08:53:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA10109 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 08:53:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3BBoNX20741; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 05:50:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3BBoLV05609; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 05:50:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtpgate.suscom.net (ip252.119.susc.suscom.net [64.78.119.252]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3BBd5V03085 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 05:39:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailhost.suscom.net (pop.suscom.net [64.78.119.253]) by smtpgate.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0742510F155 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 07:35:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from yourczpl0pp1h9 (ip158.97.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.158]) by mailhost.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 54F263A8020 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 07:36:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <012201c1e14d$6eba5080$9e614e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" To: References: <200204102141.g3ALfCV05741@net.indra.com> <4.3.1.2.20020411023755.04fb0ac0@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Victorian Medieval MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 07:38:40 -0400 Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" To: Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 5:48 AM . There is a > children's book called 'The Real Mother Goose', illustrated by Blanche > Fisher Wright (probably actually from the 19-teens) which is full of these > hybrids. I have this book! In fact, it's one of my treasures--I had a copy as a little kid, and I bought another copy on eBay for my kids. But you are correct, the costuming is rather...strange. Still and all, I love it. Lots of warm fuzzy memories in that book. Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 11 09:05:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA10190 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 09:05:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3BC2MX21181; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 06:02:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3BC2MV08387; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 06:02:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web20307.mail.yahoo.com (web20307.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.88]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g3BBuTV06927 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 05:56:29 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020411115627.78810.qmail@web20307.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.175.97.80] by web20307.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 04:56:27 PDT From: Joan Garner To: costume list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Pagan Anglo-Saxon Barbie: need hairdo help Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 04:56:27 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO Why, yes, I _am_ serious. I have selected a Barbie with waist-length straight reddish-blonde hair and am having trouble coming up with an accurate hairstyle for 9th-10th century. (Apologies to SCA-Garb for the cross-posting, but I'm on a mission here!) Iohanna the Harper [Joan Hall] __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 11 09:21:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA10268 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 09:21:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3BCHjX21747; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 06:17:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3BCHiV12221; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 06:17:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3BCBlV10889 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 06:11:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from melaniew (213-78-79-233.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.79.233]) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AFK52296; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 13:11:37 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <02fa01c1e152$965671a0$e9494ed5@melaniew> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pagan Anglo-Saxon Barbie: need hairdo help MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 13:15:35 +0100 Status: RO >I have selected a Barbie with waist-length straight reddish-blonde hair and am having trouble coming up with an accurate hairstyle for 9th-10th century. Most 9-10th anglo saxons would not have been pagan. Red hair is more celtic really, but it dosen't matter as a good Christian lady of Anglo Saxon England in the 9-10c would have her hair covered by a veil, unless corrupted by a nasty pagan viking Try the Regia site I think www.regia.org or www.regia.org.uk for pics Hope that helps Mel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 11 09:23:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA10309 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 09:23:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3BCKXX21837; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 06:20:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3BCKVV12811; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 06:20:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smithers.nildram.co.uk (smithers.nildram.co.uk [195.112.4.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g3BCD9V11200 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 06:13:09 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200204111213.g3BCD9V11200@net.indra.com> Received: (qmail 27089 invoked from network); 11 Apr 2002 12:12:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO localhost) (195.112.4.97) by smithers.nildram.co.uk with SMTP; 11 Apr 2002 12:12:55 -0000 To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pagan Anglo-Saxon Barbie: need hairdo help From: Jane Williams Cc: Jane Williams X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-Mailer: NOCC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: Jane Williams List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 13:12:54 BST Status: RO Joan Garner wrote : > Why, yes, I _am_ serious. Any why not? > I have selected a Barbie with waist-length straight > reddish-blonde hair and am having trouble coming up > with an accurate hairstyle for 9th-10th century. >From the http://www.angelcynn.org.uk/ site: "There is no evidence that in Pagan times women habitually covered their heads like the later Anglo-Saxon women, but a number of types of headgear are known. A cloak or shawl could easily be drawn up over the head, to form a hood, and rectangular scarves, sometimes fringed are known from archaeology. Caps or hairnets of a technique known as sprang are known from pictorial and archaeological sources, often covering plaits or braids of hair. Pictorial and archaeological evidence also suggest the use of veils, often of linen, draped loosely over unbound hair. A veil is prone to slip, or be blown by the wind, so if a veil was to be worn it would either have a band over it to secure it, or a fixed base, such as a braid of hair and/or a cap, could be used to pin it to. A few wealthy Kentish women were buried with gold brocaded fillets (perhaps known by the Latin word vitta, or the Old English words nostle, snod and þwæle), a fashion imported from the Frankish Kingdom. Possibly wom! en in humbler circumstances wore fillets made entirely of textile which has since rotted away. The linguistic evidence suggests a wider range of headgear than archaeology and sculpture. The word hæt (hat) was in use as were cuffie (loose fitting hood or scarf) and scyfel (some kind of cap or hat). The binde, a fillet, seems to have been worn by married women." They then note for Kent in particular: "Women's hair was worn long (but not necessarily un cut and unstyled), sometimes loose but often plaited. Some representations show the hair drawn back from the face, presumably into a plait or pony-tail. It is uncertain whether a pony tail would be tied back with some kind of fastening, or whether it would be knotted as was done in Scandinavia. Some continental sculptures show quite elegant coiffures and ringlets on Germanic women, and a pair of pony-tails fastened behind each ear are also often represented." Which would seem to give you a lot of choice! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 11 09:24:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA10319 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 09:24:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3BCKbX21853; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 06:20:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3BCKbV12848; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 06:20:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [195.194.177.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3BCE9V11376 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 06:14:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from csv6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA23344.; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 13:22:11 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by csv6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 13:13:38 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.1 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Victorian Medieval Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g3BCE9V11376 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 13:13:04 +0100 Status: RO Kayta wrote: > And weren't Italian Ren. (men and women) and Regency (women) costumes their idea of copies of togas? I thought Regency gowns were more Grecian-inspired than Roman (and of course the toga was male attire). Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 11 10:29:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA14911 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 10:29:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3BDQaX25152; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 07:26:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3BDQZV29849; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 07:26:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from io.cox-internet.com (io-cox.cox-internet.com [208.180.118.41]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3BDIoV27584 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 07:18:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jd92601 ([208.180.60.149]) by io.cox-internet.com (InterMail vK.4.03.05.03 201-232-132-103 license 180e1de7f543f89455b24e508f9cca39) with SMTP id <20020411131648.DVKS7217.io@jd92601> for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 08:16:48 -0500 Message-ID: <003701c1e15b$621b14a0$953cb4d0@coxinternet.com> From: "Nancy DuPree" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Subject: [h-cost] Angelceynn Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 08:18:34 -0500 Status: RO Oh, I love the Angelceynn site. Aren't the pictures wonderful. I've been intending to duplicate the Christian Woman's Dress for some time, just another project that I haven't done yet. Another doll lady out there - what fun!!! I love Barbie and Gene. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 11 10:54:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA15177 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 10:54:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3BDpPX26880; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 07:51:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3BDpOV08907; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 07:51:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3BDjTV06931 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 07:45:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from C59303A ([12.238.186.197]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020411134523.MGYV1143.rwcrmhc51.attbi.com@C59303A>; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 13:45:23 +0000 Message-ID: <095c01c1e15f$1c30fdc0$c5baee0c@mckiny1.tx.home.com> From: "Chiara" To: , "costume list" References: <20020411115627.78810.qmail@web20307.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pagan Anglo-Saxon Barbie: need hairdo help MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 08:42:05 -0500 Status: RO I know this is not accurate but I did purchase for my daughter to be given at Christmas the Princess of Ireland Barbie. Take a look as I was surprised at what they did. http://www.barbie.com/catalog/product.asp?type=100001&subtype=100004&product _id=1001784 I LOVE that hair! (Yes, I am one of those moms that buys things way before Christmas, ya never know....) Sincerely, Chiara Francesca Steppes, Ansteorra McKinney,Texas `°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°` ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joan Garner" To: "costume list" Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 6:56 AM Subject: [h-cost] Pagan Anglo-Saxon Barbie: need hairdo help > Why, yes, I _am_ serious. > > I have selected a Barbie with waist-length straight > reddish-blonde hair and am having trouble coming up > with an accurate hairstyle for 9th-10th century. > > (Apologies to SCA-Garb for the cross-posting, but I'm > on a mission here!) > > Iohanna the Harper > [Joan Hall] > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax > http://taxes.yahoo.com/ > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 11 10:55:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA15187 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 10:55:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3BDpkX26910; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 07:51:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3BDpfV09058; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 07:51:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3BDjTV06932 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 07:45:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from C59303A ([12.238.186.197]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020411134523.MGYV1143.rwcrmhc51.attbi.com@C59303A>; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 13:45:23 +0000 Message-ID: <095c01c1e15f$1c30fdc0$c5baee0c@mckiny1.tx.home.com> From: "Chiara" To: , "costume list" References: <20020411115627.78810.qmail@web20307.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pagan Anglo-Saxon Barbie: need hairdo help MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 08:42:05 -0500 Status: RO I know this is not accurate but I did purchase for my daughter to be given at Christmas the Princess of Ireland Barbie. Take a look as I was surprised at what they did. http://www.barbie.com/catalog/product.asp?type=100001&subtype=100004&product _id=1001784 I LOVE that hair! (Yes, I am one of those moms that buys things way before Christmas, ya never know....) Sincerely, Chiara Francesca Steppes, Ansteorra McKinney,Texas `°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°` ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joan Garner" To: "costume list" Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 6:56 AM Subject: [h-cost] Pagan Anglo-Saxon Barbie: need hairdo help > Why, yes, I _am_ serious. > > I have selected a Barbie with waist-length straight > reddish-blonde hair and am having trouble coming up > with an accurate hairstyle for 9th-10th century. > > (Apologies to SCA-Garb for the cross-posting, but I'm > on a mission here!) > > Iohanna the Harper > [Joan Hall] > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax > http://taxes.yahoo.com/ > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 11 11:10:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA15325 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 11:10:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3BE6hX27903; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 08:06:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3BE6gV14711; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 08:06:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web20306.mail.yahoo.com (web20306.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.87]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g3BE1CV12583 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 08:01:13 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020411140100.4312.qmail@web20306.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.163.106.50] by web20306.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 07:01:00 PDT From: Joan Garner To: costume list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Pagan Anglo-Saxon Barbie: Thanks for all the ideas! Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 07:01:00 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO Clearly my history train-of-thought derailed as to what century the Anglo-Saxons were Christianized. Iohanna the Harper [Joan Hall] __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 11 12:42:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA15896 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 12:42:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3BFddX06837; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 09:39:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3BFdRV00841; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 09:39:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from benfranklin.hnet.uci.edu (root@benfranklin.hnet.uci.edu [128.200.119.150]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3BFTFV24721 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 09:29:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from UAOBRIEN.uci.edu (HIB435A.HNET.UCI.EDU [128.200.119.223]) by benfranklin.hnet.uci.edu (8.9.3/) with ESMTP id IAA21207; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 08:29:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020411082630.01b23ac8@benfranklin.hnet.uci.edu> X-Sender: uaobrien@benfranklin.hnet.uci.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com From: "Ulrika A. O'Brien" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gustav III wedding suit In-Reply-To: <3CB55094.91DF5DBA@post12.tele.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g3BFTFV24721 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 08:31:21 -0700 Status: RO For those in the U.S. interested in buying the pattern, I will note that 350 SEK is roughly $35.00 U.S. at current exchange rates. At 02:00 AM 4/11/2002, Leif Drews wrote: >Dear list. >Sorry of your difficulties, it is in swedish. >Well you go to: http://livrustkammaren.nu/ then you click on the link to >the left marked livrustkammaren, then you click on "butiken" (the shop) >When you have come so far, you click on "nyhet" (news) mønstret til >GustavIII's >franska brøllupsdrakt. (the pattern for Gustav III's wedding suit) it is >written in light grey!!! >Then there is a picture of it. You can order when you click on the light >grey text "Bestall mønsteret" (order the pattern) >The text to the suit says: The swedish crownprince, Gustafs weddingdress >was exhibited december 2001 - february 2002 at an exhibition in Paris. >It was the swedish culturedepartment in Paris - Centre Culturel Suedois >who together with the Livrustkammaren in Stockholm in this way showed >one of the 18th century most outstanding costumes, perhaps the most >exquisite. >Now the Livrustkammaren has made an excact draft of the wedding suit. >The pattern wich is unique in its kind has ben made by Gerard Aroyan, >who is a tailor at the Royal Operahouse. The pattern is given in Gustav >III own size and it is printed on two pieces of paper in a manner >inspired from Gersaults, L'art du tailleur. The Crownprince was a size >in average hight about 165 cm. and with a nowadays gentlemans size of >46-48. Informations about the seams is in swedish and french. >The 4th of november 1766 there was a celebration of the crownprince's >wedding with the same aged danish princesse, Sofia Magdalena. The >bridegrom was dressed in a fashionable habit a la francaise, consisting >of a jacket, waistcoat and trousers, made of drap d'argent moire with a >fantastic aplicationembroidery in metal foil, gold spangels and gold >thread. Shining symbols of suns, rising from bluish skyes. >It was the swedish embassador in Paris, Count Gustav Phillip Creutz, who >arranged the work for the suit. He let the french firm, Le Roux & De la >Salle for the fabrics and the embroideries. The result was admired by >all Paris,"anything that beautifull was never seen before", wrote the >proud Creutz to the Crownprince. > >The pattern is made with a co-operation betwen Livrustkammaren and >Cortorama Nordica, AB and with contributes from Marcus and Amalia >Wallenbergs comemmoration. >This is my own translation from Swedish to English, Swedish is not my >native language, so i hope you will forgive me, if it is not perfect. >I hope you will enjoy. >This i want to make for myself, next year - yeahhhh!!!! > >Bjarne > >-- > > >Leif Drews >Åboulevard 5, 3 th >1635 København V > >Bjarne Drews >Åboulevard 5,3.th >1635 København V > >tlf. 35 37 13 70 > >My new domain name: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk > >Homepage: http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph > >Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/~DeeDee_Revia/1index.html > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Ulrika O'Brien English & Comparative Literature University of California, Irvine 435 Humanities Instructional Building (949) 824-6712 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 11 14:57:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA16556 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 14:57:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3BHrpX21698; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 11:53:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3BHrkV19902; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 11:53:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r10.mx.aol.com (imo-r10.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.106]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3BHodV18287 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 11:50:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from FyneHats2@aol.com by imo-r10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.157.c22938b (15874) for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 13:50:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from netscape.com (mow-m27.webmail.aol.com [64.12.137.4]) by air-id07.mx.aol.com (v84.14) with ESMTP id MAILINID71-0411135020; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 13:50:20 -0400 From: FyneHats2@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-ID: <7F00A244.218598DE.0251717C@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Re:New to list Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 13:50:20 -0400 Status: RO Hi Nancy Du Pree and Rebecca Schmitt! Fancy meeting you here! Since I make Renaissance and Victorian/Edwardian hats, this was one site I just gravitated to. As you can see, if you have a costume question, someone out there will have an answer or tell you where to find it. This can be such a supportive community. Welcome. Donna Scarfe Owner and Designer Fyne Hats By Felicity Period Headgear for Past Ages www.fynehatsbyfelicity.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 11 15:13:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA16608 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 15:13:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3BIADX23600; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 12:10:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3BIA8V29118; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 12:10:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3BI1ZV24084 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 12:01:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (friaco95.onetel.net.uk [213.78.95.254] (may be forged)) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AFK73216; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 19:01:25 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <008101c1e183$c28d73a0$fe5f4ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <20020411140100.4312.qmail@web20306.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pagan Anglo-Saxon Barbie: Thanks for all the ideas! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 19:07:35 +0100 Status: RO >Clearly my history train-of-thought derailed as to what century the Anglo-Saxons were Christianized. Did you want pagan or 9-10th C then ? Pagan is far nicer, but I'm rather biased being a pagan anglo saxon :) (www.maering.co.uk) you could have some lovely glass beads (see my gallery in www.hot-glass.co.uk) mini tablet weaving & all sorts & hair jangles !! Mel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 11 15:20:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA16648 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 15:20:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3BIHFX24297; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 12:17:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3BIHBV03011; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 12:17:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web20303.mail.yahoo.com (web20303.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.84]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g3BIDbV01195 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 12:13:38 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020411181310.76330.qmail@web20303.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.163.106.50] by web20303.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 11:13:10 PDT From: Joan Garner Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pagan Anglo-Saxon Barbie: Thanks for all the ideas! To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <008101c1e183$c28d73a0$fe5f4ed5@pavilion> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 11:13:10 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO Pagan it is! I want fun hair. Iohanna the Harper [Joan Hall] --- Melanie Wilson wrote: > >Clearly my history train-of-thought derailed as to > what century the Anglo-Saxons were Christianized. > > Did you want pagan or 9-10th C then ? > > Pagan is far nicer, but I'm rather biased being a > pagan anglo saxon :) > (www.maering.co.uk) you could have some lovely glass > beads (see my gallery > in www.hot-glass.co.uk) mini tablet weaving & all > sorts & hair jangles !! > > Mel > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 11 15:34:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA16694 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 15:34:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3BISkX25724; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 12:28:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3BIShV09256; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 12:28:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3BIPeV07562 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 12:25:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (friaco95.onetel.net.uk [213.78.95.254] (may be forged)) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AFK74551; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 19:25:32 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <00ba01c1e187$20ac93a0$fe5f4ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <20020411181310.76330.qmail@web20303.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pagan Anglo-Saxon Barbie: Thanks for all the ideas! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 19:31:41 +0100 Status: RO >Pagan it is! I want fun hair. Jangles are fun Email me on melaniewilson@bigfoot.com & I'll try & send some pics Mel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 11 15:45:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA16743 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 15:45:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3BIglX27449; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 12:42:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3BIgkV17041; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 12:42:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3BIdbV15314 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 12:39:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.127.194]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GUF00LDY2HZF7@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 11:39:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pagan Anglo-Saxon Barbie: need hairdo help In-reply-to: <200204111213.g3BCD9V11200@net.indra.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020411111635.04fefa80@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 11:17:43 -0700 Status: RO >A veil is prone to slip, or be blown by the wind, so if a veil was to be >worn it would either have a band over it to secure it, or a fixed base, >such as a braid of hair and/or a cap, could be used to pin it to. A veil made of something like wool challis (really thin and drapey) would not be so prone to slippage, and would require no attachment. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 11 15:46:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA16750 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 15:46:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3BIhXX27524; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 12:43:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3BIhOV17445; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 12:43:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3BIdbV15319 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 12:39:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.127.194]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GUF00LDY2HZF7@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 11:39:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Victorian Medieval In-reply-to: X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020411111759.04ff2d10@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 11:28:30 -0700 Status: RO > > And weren't Italian Ren. (men and >women) and Regency (women) costumes their idea of copies of togas? > >I thought Regency gowns were more Grecian-inspired than Roman (and of >course the toga was male attire). Not my period - way too far back. A toga was for men, and I don't know what the women's garment was called - a peplos?. What I meant was they seem to have adopted clothes based on the styles/shapes of the statuary that went along with the new (old) Greek/Roman ideas they were reading. I know that Italian armor and swords started looking Greek/Roman for a while. There's a short sword called a cinqueda (sp?) that's almost a copy of a Roman short sword. Those organ-pipe pleats seem to have mimicked toga/peplos drapes. I also heard that after Pompei and Herculaneum were re-discovered, women (late 1700's-early 1800's) started wearing high-waisted drapey garments, white because all the paint had worn off the original statuary. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 11 16:30:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA16932 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 16:30:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3BJR0X02043; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 13:27:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3BJQuV11161; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 13:26:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from finch-post-12.mail.demon.net (finch-post-12.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.41]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3BJMIV08787 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 13:22:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by finch-post-12.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 16vk9A-000377-0C for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 19:22:17 +0000 Message-ID: To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Victorian Medieval References: <149.c976a67.29e4bcf0@aol.com> <3CB3748A.A2726DE0@lavoltapress.com> In-Reply-To: <3CB3748A.A2726DE0@lavoltapress.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 20:13:55 +0100 Status: RO Lavolta Press wrote >> >> OK, what IS Victorian Medieval? I love that. One has to be fairly >> creative to coin new eras as such. > >Haven't seen the item, but to me the term "Victorian Medieval" evokes >the Aesthetic Movement. > >Fran > I would guess pre-Raphaelite. Lady of Shalot 'n' all that. Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 11 16:30:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA16937 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 16:30:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3BJRRX02073; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 13:27:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3BJROV11466; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 13:27:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from finch-post-12.mail.demon.net (finch-post-12.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.41]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3BJMNV08839 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 13:22:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by finch-post-12.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 16vk9D-00037Z-0C for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 19:22:21 +0000 Message-ID: To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: impossible sleeves was Re: [h-cost] Re: the eBay dress References: <004c01c1debd$ebeabfa0$edd9adcb@user> <001801c1df43$7dc8d080$1e2a7bd5@dan> In-Reply-To: <001801c1df43$7dc8d080$1e2a7bd5@dan> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 20:12:00 +0100 Status: RO Stevie Gamble wrote >Jean wrote: > >> Anyway, I have made my early Tudor dress with this arrangement, a >wide >> square neck at the front and a V at the back, with the sleeves and >> armscye as tight as I could manage. It works very well, and I never >> have to twitch the shoulders up. > >As I noted a while back, in Aileen Ribeiro's "Gallery of Fashion"on >page 34 she states that "the >jewelled "square" holding the neckline in place prevents the heavy >sleeves >from slipping off the shoulders". > >I do wonder whether the very tight sleeves and armscye are a 21st >century way of keeping the sleeves where you want them, rather than a >16th century method... > >best wishes >Stevie > Not everyone had jewels! And those armholes are definitely very tight. Check out a sketch of Mary Zouch by Holbein. One of my friends once showed me a way that had been suggested to her of cutting the sleeves and shoulders in one piece. Imagine you have a strip of fabric like a wide bandage. You start at the centre back, with a 45 degree angle so the grain is going along the V, not vertically. It goes over the shoulder and then wraps round the arm. I've seen it wrapped, but never sewn, (you have to do an interesting gusset under the arm) but it seems as if it pulls in the right directions to keep everything on. Another option. Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 11 16:45:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA16998 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 16:44:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3BJfPX03714; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 13:41:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3BJfNV19466; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 13:41:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pimout2-int.prodigy.net (pimout2-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.101]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3BJYqV15547 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 13:34:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from flash.net (dialup-64.158.38.249.Dial1.Houston1.Level3.net [64.158.38.249]) by pimout2-int.prodigy.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g3BJYox97632 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 15:34:50 -0400 Message-ID: <3CB5E522.2E91EA25@flash.net> From: Charlene Charette X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] humour References: <3CB55555.9888E465@post12.tele.dk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 14:33:54 -0500 Status: RO Leif Drews wrote: > This is off topic, but i have to tell you....... > I joined a list at yahoo called Images of Marie Antoinette. I thoaght i > was joining some interresting discussions about her life and time. > Wouldnt you know it, it is a pornografic fetish thingy, not at all > historical. > Now i must sign off again........ I just looked at the group description and it appears to be a legitimate group. I'd complain to Yahoo. Personally, I don't care if people want to discuss porn, but the group description should be accurate so that folks not wanting to be involved don't accidentally wander in. --Charlene -- When aiming for the common denominator, be prepared for the occasional division by zero. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 11 16:47:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA17006 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 16:47:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3BJfdX03758; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 13:41:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3BJfaV19633; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 13:41:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-36.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-36.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.94]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3BJajV16744 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 13:36:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-36.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 16vkN4-00018a-0a for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 20:36:39 +0100 Message-ID: To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] British Women & Hats References: <010001c1e052$51ee5b00$0300a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> <010001c1e052$51ee5b00$0300a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> <4.3.1.2.20020410114504.0500c210@mail.frys.com> In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20020410114504.0500c210@mail.frys.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 20:35:56 +0100 Status: RO Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote >Heather Rose Jones writes, in a message sent 09:43 AM 4/10/02 -0700: >>At 1:41 AM -0400 4/10/02, Penny Ladnier wrote: >>>First, I would like to say, the Queen Mum had a glorious life and will be >>>missed by the world. >>> >>>I was watching the funeral of the Queen Mum today. I was in awe of all the >>>beautiful hats the women were wearing. All in black but so many different >>>styles. I don't think I saw two alike hats alike. So many were inspired by >>>various styles of the 20th Century. I saw wide brims hats from the late >>>Edwardian period to teens. Lots of these. One of my sons passed through >>>the room, looked at the TV and said, "It looks like Titanic!" One lady >>>looked like Jackie Kennedy with a pill box hat and Chanel dress. Another >>>lady's hat looked like the late 1940s-early 50s. The Queen's hat even >>>looked late Edwardian. So are newly designed historically inspired hats in >>>Vogue in Europe or is the royalty of Europe wearing vintage? I must also >>>say I loved the garnishment of feathers on the hats. >> >>I have to wonder if the prevalence of stylish hats might not have been >>a conscious tribute to a woman known for her hats! > >And I just think the Londoners are big on wearing hats. Certainly >their climate warrants it. > >My Grandmother Barrows (1880-1973) lived in Southern California and >never left the house without a hat and gloves. My other grandmother, >born some 20 years later, lived in Oregon, hardly owned any hats, and >wore a bandana over her head, tied under her chin, if the weather was bad. > >Kayta > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( >/----\ /---\)) The British upper classes always wear hats, always have. See Royal Ascot - the biggest hat-wearing occasion of the year. The Queen always deliberately wears hats with a small brim, so that people can see her face. But in recent years hat fashions have been for these big crowned creations. There's nothing inside, you just have to get one that fits your head around the band. Of course, Her Maj doesn't have to go to Accessorise and make do with one size fits all! I have a rather large head and find it difficult to get one that will sit far enough down to stay on. Wearing hats is definitely becoming more popular. Not posh hats (I wish I could do "the season" and wear a different fancy hat every weekend!) but sunhats and woolly hats, as well as baseball caps etc. I'm sure it's the same in the US, really - it's led by a lot of pop stars. I'm thinking the Gallagher brothers in what I think of as fishermen's (angler's) hats, and rap stars in woolly hats. After all, Accessorise wouldn't be doing the business it does if people weren't buying hats. But when will small crowns come back so I can get a medieval-looking straw sunhat? Jean Hats, hats, hats, hats, hats..... -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 11 17:00:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA17081 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 17:00:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3BJvNX05607; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 13:57:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3BJvKV29067; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 13:57:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3BJnlV24331 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 13:49:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [136.152.196.104] (as3-4-118.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.104]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.10.2) with ESMTP id g3BJnjD06059 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 12:49:45 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <924682D1A08@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> References: <924682D1A08@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Victorian Medieval Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g3BJnlV24331 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 10:08:13 -0700 Status: RO At 10:18 AM +0000 4/11/02, Teddy wrote: > > I actually hadn't thought of portraiture costumes from the >> Victorian period, I don't know why it didn't occur. Does seem like >> we could have some serious fun with some cross-breeding of eras, >> though... Teddy, what about Egyptian Elizabethan?  > >Oooh yes! I was looking at some beautiful metalic-striped fabric in >a friend's stash last night that was vaguely Egyptian if held with the >stripes horizontal and what I referred to as "Space-age victorian" >with the stripes vertical.... Something like that used for Egyprian >Elizabethan would be stunning. One of my home-decorating day-dreams is to do my house in "Victorian Pompeii" -- that is, what a Victorian decorator might have done if inspired by the "recent" artistic discoveries at Pompeii and Herculaneum. Since the house is a sort of made-over Queen Anne style it seems like a better approach than trying to do a serious classical Roman style. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 11 18:53:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA17727 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 18:53:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3BLnuX19621; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 15:49:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3BLniV01796; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 15:49:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3BLhpV28346 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 15:44:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [216.119.36.10] (helo=[216.119.36.10]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16vmM6-0004vL-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 14:43:47 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: impossible sleeves was Re: [h-cost] Re: the eBay dress From: Sarah Lorraine To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 14:43:19 -0700 Status: RO > >Not everyone had jewels! And those armholes are definitely very tight. >Check out a sketch of Mary Zouch by Holbein. >One of my friends once showed me a way that had been suggested to her of >cutting the sleeves and shoulders in one piece. Imagine you have a >strip of fabric like a wide bandage. You start at the centre back, with >a 45 degree angle so the grain is going along the V, not vertically. It >goes over the shoulder and then wraps round the arm. I've seen it >wrapped, but never sewn, (you have to do an interesting gusset under the >arm) but it seems as if it pulls in the right directions to keep >everything on. Another option. Do you suppose, then, that this is what those mysterious white shoulder straps are that Tudor fanatics have been agonizing over for years? Sounds very plausable... :) Sarah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 11 19:18:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA17869 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 19:18:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3BMF0X23327; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 16:15:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3BMEle03995; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 16:14:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web14001.mail.yahoo.com (web14001.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.92]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g3BM3aV09609 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 16:03:37 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020411220335.73262.qmail@web14001.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [206.148.68.150] by web14001.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 15:03:35 PDT From: Cin Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Victorian Roman To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 15:03:35 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO > One of my home-decorating day-dreams is to do my house in "Victorian > Pompeii" -- that is, what a Victorian decorator might have done if > inspired by the "recent" artistic discoveries at Pompeii and > Herculaneum. Since the house is a sort of made-over Queen Anne style > it seems like a better approach than trying to do a serious classical > Roman style. Bradbury & Bradbury already has the wallpaper. What fun! The Victorian & Aesthetic catalogs came when I order their Craftsman era wallpaper catalog. Please invite us all over for Show & Tell when you're done. ===== --cin Cynthia hysteria95126@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 11 19:31:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA17919 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 19:31:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3BMSgX24804; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 16:28:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3BMSfe12350; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 16:28:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r09.mx.aol.com (imo-r09.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.105]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3BMNCe08971 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 16:23:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.162.bfec858 (3702) for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 18:23:00 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <162.bfec858.29e766c3@aol.com> Subject: Re: impossible sleeves was Re: [h-cost] Re: the eBay dress To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_162.bfec858.29e766c3_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10560 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 18:22:59 EDT Status: RO --part1_162.bfec858.29e766c3_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/11/2002 3:28:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time, anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk writes: > Another option. > > And an interesting one too because sometimes in paintings it looks like there is no shoulder strap at all. --part1_162.bfec858.29e766c3_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/11/2002 3:28:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time, anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk writes:


Another option.



And an interesting one too because sometimes in paintings it looks like there is no shoulder strap at all. --part1_162.bfec858.29e766c3_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 11 21:38:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA18415 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:38:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3C0ZhX05178; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 18:35:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3C0Zee12425; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 18:35:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comet.pacifier.com ([199.2.117.155]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3C0WWe11350 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 18:32:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 ([207.173.125.181]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g3C0WPK10343 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 17:32:26 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: impossible sleeves was Re: [h-cost] Re: the eBay dress Message-ID: <3CB5C913.25719.199AB288@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <001801c1df43$7dc8d080$1e2a7bd5@dan> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 17:34:11 -0700 Status: RO > One of my friends once showed me a way that had been suggested to her > of cutting the sleeves and shoulders in one piece. Imagine you have a > strip of fabric like a wide bandage. You start at the centre back, > with a 45 degree angle so the grain is going along the V, not > vertically. It goes over the shoulder and then wraps round the arm. > I've seen it wrapped, but never sewn, (you have to do an interesting > gusset under the arm) but it seems as if it pulls in the right > directions to keep everything on. Another option. I personally don't feel that they did it this way. It would be quite wasteful of fabric. What people may not realize is that there is a little groove between the top of the arm (the head of the humerus, the bone which makes up the upper arm) and the collar bone (the projection called the acromion.) If the top of the sleeve fits in that little groove, it tends to stay there, especially if there is a staytape (so that you don't have to have the fabric of the dress as part of the V) anchoring it to the midback. That staytape is the important part, as it keeps the edges of the V from stretching and then falling off. You barely need anything along the edge of the neckline at the top or front (which goes along with the narrow if at all present area on the portraits in those places). Actually, it holds better this way than if you use a wider shoulderseam (since a wider "shoulder strap" wouldn't fit in the little groove as well.) But you are certainly right about the dresses not always being jeweled. None of the women's gowns or kirtles in The Inventories of King Henry VIII have them (and that covers the time period of the gowns we are discussing.) Other garments (such as the men's coat called the gown) sometimes have the jewels (in the form of aiglettes) listed with the garment, but the women's gowns do not. That suggests to me that, as is described in _Lost from Her Majesties Back_, each night the jewels were removed from the garment and returned to a coffer or to the jewel box, with the garment taken back to their storage area. Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 11 22:30:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA18651 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 22:30:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3C1RgX07837; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 19:27:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3C1Ree27869; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 19:27:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3C1Oue26960 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 19:24:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.32.118]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GUF004J0L9JWL@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 18:24:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: impossible sleeves was Re: [h-cost] Re: the eBay dress In-reply-to: <3CB5C913.25719.199AB288@localhost> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020411182202.04fb8e00@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <001801c1df43$7dc8d080$1e2a7bd5@dan> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 18:24:50 -0700 Status: RO >I personally don't feel that they did it this way. It would be quite >wasteful of fabric. The farther from the weaving processes the eventual wearer is, the more likely they are to put up with fabric waste, in the name of fashion. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 12 00:01:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA19017 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 00:01:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3C2vpX12855; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 20:57:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3C2voe26155; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 20:57:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3C2sUe25103 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 20:54:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [136.152.196.77] (as3-4-91.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.77]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.10.2) with ESMTP id g3C2sP614115 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 19:54:26 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <008101c1e183$c28d73a0$fe5f4ed5@pavilion> References: <20020411140100.4312.qmail@web20306.mail.yahoo.com> <008101c1e183$c28d73a0$fe5f4ed5@pavilion> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pagan Anglo-Saxon Barbie: Thanks for all the ideas! Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g3C2sUe25103 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 15:27:22 -0700 Status: RO At 7:07 PM +0100 4/11/02, Melanie Wilson wrote: > >Clearly my history train-of-thought derailed as to >what century the Anglo-Saxons were Christianized. > >Did you want pagan or 9-10th C then ? > >Pagan is far nicer, but I'm rather biased being a pagan anglo saxon :) >(www.maering.co.uk) you could have some lovely glass beads (see my gallery >in www.hot-glass.co.uk) mini tablet weaving & all sorts & hair jangles !! Do many people do historically dressed dolls on occasion? I've recently gotten interested in the topic via a side-door. The woman I was dating at the end of last year gave me a "Heather doll" for Christmas, with outfits and accessories that matched some of my own stuff, and I got inspired to start making clothes for her from my archaeological garments project. (So having started at the early end, I now have "Egtved Heather" and "Borum Eshøj Heather" outfits.) I remember "Bishop Bob" from last year's Kalamazoo talk on tablet weaving with great fondness. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 12 00:14:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA19061 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 00:14:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3C3BfX13624; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:11:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3C3Bfe00423; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:11:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.62]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3C36Ve28787 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:06:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 66-44-46-97.s1621.apx1.lnhdc.md.dialup.rcn.com ([66.44.46.97] helo=erols.com) by smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #10) id 16vrOQ-0003xW-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 23:06:31 -0400 Message-ID: <3CB6794C.12461B0@erols.com> From: "David S. Mallinak" Organization: Red Dragon Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: 16th Century Spanish References: <145.c954f81.29e46b22@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: matchlck@erols.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 23:06:04 -0700 Status: RO Azelana@aol.com wrote: > I maintain a spanish persona, roughly around 1515 - 1600 (which is the > period that I dress). By any chance does anyone know of some decent Spanish > fashion research that would perhaps aid me in the right direction? I'm > finding this a bit frustrating, for I am finding mostly English costume > research. Though I know English fashions were sometimes inspired by > Spanish.>> Hispanic Costume 1480-1530 Ruth Matilda Anderson ISBN 87535-126-3 Hispanic Society of America, 1979 Kinsport Press Your humble and obedient servant, David S Mallinak _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 12 00:23:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA19093 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 00:23:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3C3KfX14058; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:20:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3C3Kee03126; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:20:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3C3Hfe02233 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:17:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dandy.net (pvil2216.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.237.216]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA10145 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 23:17:37 -0400 Message-ID: <3CB651B6.81647844@dandy.net> From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Victorian Medieval References: <90C21E6265C@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 23:17:10 -0400 Status: RO Hi, All. As a side note, and don't take this wrong, anyone, but the SCA has been dubbed, by quite a few folks in such diverse fields as sociology and psychology, as a Victorian Medieval group. The reason, I gather, is the Society's proclivity to romanticise the period "as it should have been, not as it was...", etc. It is not surprising, then, that the Society occasionally spawns some "interesting" clothing abberations, a'la the PreRaphaelites. Having seen camoflage Elizabethan, a kilt made from Disney fabric and day-glo Landsknecht, I don't think that anything would surprise me. Amuse me, yes, but surprise....Mike T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 12 00:26:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA19102 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 00:26:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3C3NfX14188; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:23:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3C3Nfe03944; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:23:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web20301.mail.yahoo.com (web20301.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.82]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g3C3I7e02379 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:18:07 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020412031805.79725.qmail@web20301.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [66.32.185.227] by web20301.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 20:18:05 PDT From: Joan Garner To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Miniature Costumers Guild [was: Pagan A/S Barbie] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 20:18:05 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO --- Heather Rose Jones wrote: > Do many people do historically dressed dolls on > occasion? I've recently been in touch with 5 other SCA people whose interest ranges from the humorous to serious "killer" costuming for dolls, trying to start the "Miniature Costumers Guild." ...that is, of course, miniature costumes, not miniature costumers! The potential participants are scattered around the globe, so no tiresome meetings! I'm in Vallejo, CA but I don't think any of the others are anywhere near me. Iohanna the Harpfer [Joan Hall] __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 12 00:32:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA19136 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 00:32:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3C3TgX14422; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:29:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3C3Tfe06297; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:29:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.mcn.org (smtp.mcn.org [204.189.12.25]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3C3PMe04485 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:25:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (ha-1o-men-p5-m10.mcn.org [63.193.12.214]) by smtp.mcn.org (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g3C4ErO4021764 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:15:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: 16th Century Spanish Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v480) From: Fred Struthers To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <3CB6794C.12461B0@erols.com> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 20:23:32 -0700 Status: RO On Thursday, April 11, 2002, at 11:06 PM, David S. Mallinak wrote: > Azelana@aol.com wrote: >> I maintain a spanish persona, roughly around 1515 - 1600 (which is the >> period that I dress). By any chance does anyone know of some decent >> Spanish >> fashion research that would perhaps aid me in the right direction? I'm >> finding this a bit frustrating, for I am finding mostly English >> costume >> research. Though I know English fashions were sometimes inspired by >> Spanish.>> > > > Hispanic Costume 1480-1530 > Ruth Matilda Anderson > ISBN 87535-126-3 > Hispanic Society of America, 1979 > Kinsport Press I have one copy of this book for sale at $38. Fred Struthers fsbks@mcn.org > Fred Struthers -- Books on Cloth a catalog of out-of-print and hard-to-find books on costume, textiles and related subjects -- http://www.rlshep.com distributor RL Shep Publications _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 12 00:35:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA19147 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 00:35:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3C3WfX14582; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:32:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3C3Wfe07205; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:32:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com (imo-m02.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.5]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3C3Sme05934 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:28:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.10c.10211e34 (25509) for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 23:28:39 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <10c.10211e34.29e7ae67@aol.com> Subject: Re: impossible sleeves was Re: [h-cost] Re: the eBay dress To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_10c.10211e34.29e7ae67_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10560 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 23:28:39 EDT Status: RO --part1_10c.10211e34.29e7ae67_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/11/2002 9:28:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kayta@frys.com writes: > >I personally don't feel that they did it this way. It would be quite > >wasteful of fabric. > > The farther from the weaving processes the eventual wearer is, the more > likely they are to put up with fabric waste, in the name of fashion. > If by "this way" we are referring to cutting the sleeve on the bias, I have my doubts too. But actually it may be more economical to cut & nest a trumpet shaped sleeve on the bias. --part1_10c.10211e34.29e7ae67_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/11/2002 9:28:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kayta@frys.com writes:


>I personally don't feel that they did it this way. It would be quite
>wasteful of fabric.

The farther from the weaving processes the eventual wearer is, the more
likely they are to put up with fabric waste, in the name of fashion.


If by "this way" we are referring to cutting the sleeve on the bias, I have my doubts too. But actually it may be more economical to cut & nest a trumpet shaped sleeve on the bias. --part1_10c.10211e34.29e7ae67_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 12 00:43:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA19167 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 00:43:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3C3duX14924; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:39:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3C3due10085; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:39:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3C3Y5e07671 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:34:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a233.in-tch.com [66.62.107.33]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g3C3LU920997 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:21:30 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3CB656CD.A735E29@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gustav III wedding suit References: <3CB55094.91DF5DBA@post12.tele.dk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:38:53 -0600 Status: RO Ooooh, Bjarne, it's beeyoootiful......... Are you going to keep the same color scheme, or do something different? Thanks for the pointers, and translation....I'm guessing, in my undereducated, American way, that Swedish and Danish are similar, linguistically? Do they belong to the same language family, the way that French and Italian are both Romance languages? --Sue Bjarne wrote: > > This is my own translation from Swedish to English, Swedish is not my > native language, so i hope you will forgive me, if it is not perfect. > I hope you will enjoy. > This i want to make for myself, next year - yeahhhh!!!! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 12 00:43:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA19171 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 00:43:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3C3e1X14941; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:40:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3C3e1e10171; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:40:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3C3ahe08703 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:36:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a233.in-tch.com [66.62.107.33]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g3C3OK921789 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:24:20 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3CB65776.5704C447@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Victorian Medieval References: <149.c976a67.29e4bcf0@aol.com> <3CB3748A.A2726DE0@lavoltapress.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:41:42 -0600 Status: RO Some of the stuff in those paintings is just droolsome.....*sigh*.... --Sue whose current favorite "Victorian Medieval" dress is this early 1900s tea dress? afternoon dress? featured in the back of _Dress in Ireland....lots of silk and knotwork.... Jean Waddie wrote: > > > > I would guess pre-Raphaelite. Lady of Shalot 'n' all that. > > Jean _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 12 01:35:14 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA19318 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 01:35:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3C4VhX17867; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 22:31:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3C4Vfe01521; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 22:31:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comet.pacifier.com ([199.2.117.155]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3C4RWe29458 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 22:27:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 ([207.173.174.108]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g3C4RTK24538 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:27:30 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: impossible sleeves was Re: [h-cost] Re: the eBay dress Message-ID: <3CB6001D.8599.1A71BC8C@localhost> Priority: normal References: <3CB5C913.25719.199AB288@localhost> In-reply-to: <4.3.1.2.20020411182202.04fb8e00@mail.frys.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:29:01 -0700 Status: RO > >I personally don't feel that they did it this way. It would be quite > >wasteful of fabric. > > The farther from the weaving processes the eventual wearer is, the > more likely they are to put up with fabric waste, in the name of > fashion. That's true to a point. However, we know how they tended to lay things out (such as is seen in Alcega, Buergen, the Milanese Tailors Manual, etc) and they are very careful not to waste fabric. While they liked to put a lot into the garment, they didn't like to waste it in this (16th/early 17th) time period, so I can't believe that they would do so in the early to mid 16th Century. It just doesn't go with the ideals of the time. An example is the extravagant houppelandes which take many, many yards of fabric. However, the garments themselves left very little scrap after it was cut. (Sorry, I don't have the documents, but I read the documentation last month that someone else had.) In other words, no matter how much extravagance is in the clothes, they want it to be *in the clothes* where it can be seen, not on the cutting room floor. Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 12 04:03:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA15343 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 04:03:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3C6x3X23071; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 00:59:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3C6x3e08719; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 00:59:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3C6r4e07441 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 00:53:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.32.118]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GUG00GRG0GEFS@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 23:53:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Miniature Costumers Guild [was: Pagan A/S Barbie] In-reply-to: <20020412031805.79725.qmail@web20301.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020411234638.04ff2100@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 23:47:21 -0700 Status: RO >I've recently been in touch with 5 other SCA people >whose interest ranges from the humorous to serious >"killer" costuming for dolls, trying to start the >"Miniature Costumers Guild." ...that is, of course, >miniature costumes, not miniature costumers! >The potential participants are scattered around the >globe, so no tiresome meetings! I'm in Vallejo, CA >but I don't think any of the others are anywhere near >me. San Leandro is sort-of near you. How do I join? Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 12 04:04:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA15348 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 04:04:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3C6wgX23047; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 00:58:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3C6wfe08598; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 00:58:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3C6r4e07436 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 00:53:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.32.118]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GUG00GRG0GEFS@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 23:53:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Victorian Medieval In-reply-to: <3CB651B6.81647844@dandy.net> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020411234452.04ff16b0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <90C21E6265C@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 23:46:10 -0700 Status: RO >Having seen camoflage Elizabethan, a kilt made from Disney >fabric and day-glo Landsknecht, I don't think that anything would surprise >me. Amuse me, yes, but surprise....Mike T. Be surprised. I am the DayGlo Landsknecht, aka Cheryn-Noble. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 12 05:22:19 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA15747 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 05:22:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3C8HkX25649; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 02:17:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3C8Hfe23807; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 02:17:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [195.194.177.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3C8D4e23021 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 02:13:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from csv6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA27797.; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 09:21:35 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by csv6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 09:13:00 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.1 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gustav III wedding suit Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g3C8D4e23021 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 09:12:34 +0100 Status: RO Sue wrote: >.I'm guessing, in my >undereducated, American way, that Swedish and Danish are similar, >linguistically? Do they belong to the same language family, the way that >French and Italian are both Romance languages? At the risk of jumping the gun on our Scandinavian members - Swedish, Danish and Norwegian are all very similar, probably closer than French and Italian. I did a year's Swedish at university because we have family friends in Norway and Norwegian wasn't available. I speak neither fluently, but can read both with the help of a dictionary. BYW, my Swedish dictionary translates "dr"akt" as "dress" too, but the original heading of this thread made me smile, visualising King Gustav in a bridal gown! -- Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 12 06:48:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA16189 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 06:48:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3C9jkX27956; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 03:45:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3C9jee26287; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 03:45:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3C9fse25460 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 03:41:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KGH1ULFQ5C0156U3@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 10:44:35 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-cf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk ([158.94.199.2]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KGH1UL1R7O00KTUH@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 10:44:35 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-CF-S1/SpoolDir by mdx-cf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.48) ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 10:41:08 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-CF-S1 (Mercury 1.48); Fri, 12 Apr 2002 10:40:59 +0000 Received: from Linda19 (158.94.199.11) by mdx-cf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.48) with ESMTP; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 10:40:42 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pagan Anglo-Saxon Barbie In-reply-to: <200204120301.g3C31we27488@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <1606CBE7D93@mdx-cf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 10:40:41 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > Pagan is far nicer, but I'm rather biased being a pagan anglo saxon :) > (www.maering.co.uk) you could have some lovely glass beads (see my > gallery in www.hot-glass.co.uk) mini tablet weaving & all sorts & hair > jangles !! > > Mel Hmmm... yes - Mel makes *lovely* beads. The one she gave me at my Coronation in January is scrummy (and it's yellow too, so I'm doubly happy) Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 12 07:12:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA16302 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 07:12:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3CA6fX28654; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 04:06:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3CA6fe00748; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 04:06:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3CA1Me29575 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 04:01:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KGH2JILS4G0149U6@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 11:03:55 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-cf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk ([158.94.199.2]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KGH2JH50FQ00XO2S@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 11:03:52 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-CF-S1/SpoolDir by mdx-cf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.48) ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 11:00:25 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-CF-S1 (Mercury 1.48); Fri, 12 Apr 2002 11:00:16 +0000 Received: from Linda19 (158.94.199.11) by mdx-cf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.48) with ESMTP; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 11:00:01 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Historically dressed dolls (WAS: Pagan Anglo-Saxon Barbie) In-reply-to: <200204120301.g3C31we27488@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <160BF0C70CC@mdx-cf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from Quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g3CA1Me29575 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 11:00:00 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > Do many people do historically dressed dolls on occasion? I've > recently gotten interested in the topic via a side-door. The > woman I was dating at the end of last year gave me a "Heather doll" > for Christmas, with outfits and accessories that matched some of my > own stuff, and I got inspired to start making clothes for her from > my archaeological garments project. (So having started at the > early end, I now have "Egtved Heather" and "Borum Eshøj Heather" > outfits.) Before I got into costuming I made and dresses porcellaine dolls. I've made cloth colls since I was about 13 (inexpensve and personalised gifts for my sisters, niece and female cousins are a good thing to an impoverished teenager who can sew!) and have done several in historical clothes for friends' children to have something less "modern-looking" to play with at events (often dressed in outfits that match the child's costumes), as prizes for fund-raising raffles etc... not had much time for it in recent years however. There are two half-made ones in my "to do" pile which we were going to raffle to raise money for group equipment for a 15th century re-enactment gtoup that I'm in but I never got aroudn to finishing them... and that was 2 years ago. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 12 07:48:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA16532 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 07:48:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3CAgiX29697; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 04:42:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3CAgee07748; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 04:42:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtpgate.suscom.net (ip252.119.susc.suscom.net [64.78.119.252]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3CAdge07264 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 04:39:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailhost.suscom.net (pop.suscom.net [64.78.119.253]) by smtpgate.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C1E010EF62 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 06:36:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from yourczpl0pp1h9 (ip158.97.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.158]) by mailhost.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 582B43A801B for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 06:37:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <054701c1e20e$4c5409c0$9e614e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" To: References: <20020412031805.79725.qmail@web20301.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Miniature Costumers Guild [was: Pagan A/S Barbie] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 06:39:08 -0400 Status: RO I'm still up for that guild, Joan, but I think PA to CA is just a bit far to travel for meetings. When I finish my Elizabethan Barbie, I'll let you know! Dianne (who at only five feet tall is close to being a mini-costumer in both senses of the word!) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joan Garner" To: Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 11:18 PM Subject: [h-cost] Miniature Costumers Guild [was: Pagan A/S Barbie] > > --- Heather Rose Jones > wrote: > > Do many people do historically dressed dolls on > > occasion? > > I've recently been in touch with 5 other SCA people > whose interest ranges from the humorous to serious > "killer" costuming for dolls, trying to start the > "Miniature Costumers Guild." ...that is, of course, > miniature costumes, not miniature costumers! > The potential participants are scattered around the > globe, so no tiresome meetings! I'm in Vallejo, CA > but I don't think any of the others are anywhere near > me. > > Iohanna the Harpfer > [Joan Hall] > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax > http://taxes.yahoo.com/ > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 12 10:00:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA17644 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 10:00:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3CCvhX04494; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 06:57:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3CCvfe07705; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 06:57:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f216.law12.hotmail.com [64.4.19.216]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3CCqwe06502 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 06:52:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 05:52:52 -0700 Received: from 63.12.14.66 by lw12fd.law12.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 12:52:52 GMT X-Originating-IP: [63.12.14.66] From: "Rebecca Anderson" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Apr 2002 12:52:52.0673 (UTC) FILETIME=[F5619B10:01C1E220] Subject: [h-cost] Re: impossible sleeves Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 22:22:52 +0930 Status: RO
With all this descussion of sleeves I've taken a closer look at a lot of pictures and have noticed something perculiar - a white strap or tape that goes over the shoulder. I've seen it in many tudor-era paintings. In one picture it appears to have clips on the ends which hold the skirt up.
Can anyone tell me the reason for this?
 
Rebecca Anderson
aka
Lady Adele Anders

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_______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 12 10:31:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA18024 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 10:31:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3CDOnX05906; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 07:24:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3CDOne15237; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 07:24:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web20303.mail.yahoo.com (web20303.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.84]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g3CDKoe13987 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 07:20:50 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020412132047.90263.qmail@web20303.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [165.247.203.41] by web20303.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 06:20:47 PDT From: Joan Garner To: SCA Garb , scaharps , Vinhold list , costume list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] OT for most: Miniature Costumers Guild - offlist(s) after this message Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 06:20:47 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO Ok, enough people appear to be reasonably serious about this! As the person temporarily in charge, here are a couple things I have decided. Feel free to disagree or to say "But _I_ want to be Guildmistress!" If it's the latter, I will give you my first-born son -- he's a stockbroker and well-fixed financially and recently single again! Thus far everyone interested (all nine of us!) is SCA, so I think we should try to be a "real" SCA group with a ...dare I say it... device and everything. If the others agree, I will research whatever beaureaucratic (never could spell that!) hoops we need to jump through. I will not invent our device -- I don't do art. I think that one joins by simply emailing me and saying "I want to join." I plan to make matching person-and-doll-size belt pouch sets, to be given upon the group receiving a photo of a doll you have garbed in SCA-period costume. This offer is assuming we stay small-ish. If we get bigger than 12, then the first 12 will be the "Founding Members" and the pouches will just be for them...I do have a job and a husband and a house, etc. Once the group membership is settled, I think we need to take a vote about strict period costuming vs. fantasy, out-of-period, etc. Since I plan to take this off-list now, I need to learn how to make an email group. That's it for now. Iohanna the Harper [Joan Hall] P.S. I have not spoken of this to any of the Barbie lists I'm on -- those people do mainly modern & fantasy costuming. I have never seen an accurate historical costume done on these lists. But we will eventually need to decide re: non-SCA members. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 12 10:33:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA18040 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 10:33:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3CDRfX06058; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 07:27:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3CDRfe16111; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 07:27:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fepE.post.tele.dk (fepE.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.137]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3CDORe15126 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 07:24:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from post12.tele.dk ([62.243.47.94]) by fepE.post.tele.dk (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20020412132426.QJVS26334.fepE.post.tele.dk@post12.tele.dk> for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 15:24:26 +0200 Message-ID: <3CB6E04D.C917519B@post12.tele.dk> From: Leif Drews X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Gustav III swedish/danish Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 15:25:33 +0200 Status: RO Ooooh, Bjarne, it's beeyoootiful......... Are you going to keep the same color scheme, or do something different? Thanks for the pointers, and translation....I'm guessing, in my undereducated, American way, that Swedish and Danish are similar, linguistically? Do they belong to the same language family, the way that French and Italian are both Romance languages? --Sue Dear Sue Well both swedish, norwegian and danish are very similar, it has the same origin of language, and also because both Sweden, Norway and Denmark once were 1 big country in medieval times when Margrethe I was uniting the nordic countryes. It very much depends on who you are. I grew up with television and i looked at many children programmes from Sweden, so i learned the language. There are many people in Jutland (provinse of Denmark) who dont understand swedish, and there are many swedish people, especially noth of Stockholm, who dont understand danish. Bjarne (Your prickings is being send for you this saturday) -- Leif Drews boulevard 5, 3 th 1635 København V Bjarne Drews boulevard 5,3.th 1635 København V tlf. 35 37 13 70 My new domain name: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk Homepage: http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/~DeeDee_Revia/1index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 12 10:39:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA18088 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 10:39:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3CDagX06681; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 07:36:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3CDafe18831; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 07:36:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from post.its.mcw.edu (post.its.mcw.edu [141.106.32.10]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3CDVIe17230 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 07:31:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from post (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by post.its.mcw.edu (8.11.4/8.11.4) with SMTP id g3CDQLI11652 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 08:26:21 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <003601c1e226$40748fe0$873c6a8d@its.mcw.edu.aghlab> From: "mls" To: References: <90C21E6265C@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> <3CB651B6.81647844@dandy.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Victorian Medieval MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 08:30:45 -0500 Status: RO There is a book that somewhat explores this topic, not in the SCA context, but in different manifestations in cultural expressions of the 20th C. It is: Inventing the Middle Ages: The Lives, Works, and Ideas of the Great Medievalists of the Twentieth Century Norman F. Cantor Paperback, 1st ed., 477pp. ISBN: 0688123023 Publisher: Morrow,William & Co Pub. Date: January 1993 ----- Original Message ----- From: leigh tartaglio Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Victorian Medieval > Hi, All. As a side note, and don't take this wrong, anyone, but the SCA has > been dubbed, by quite a few folks in such diverse fields as sociology and > psychology, as a Victorian Medieval group. The reason, I gather, is the > Society's proclivity to romanticise the period "as it should have been, not > as it was...", etc. It is not surprising, then, that the Society > occasionally spawns some "interesting" clothing abberations, a'la the > PreRaphaelites. Having seen camoflage Elizabethan, a kilt made from Disney > fabric and day-glo Landsknecht, I don't think that anything would surprise > me. Amuse me, yes, but surprise....Mike T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 12 10:51:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA18135 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 10:51:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3CDmoX07376; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 07:48:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3CDmne22786; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 07:48:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smithers.nildram.co.uk (smithers.nildram.co.uk [195.112.4.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g3CDhse21239 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 07:43:54 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200204121343.g3CDhse21239@net.indra.com> Received: (qmail 34856 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2002 13:43:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO localhost) (195.112.4.97) by smithers.nildram.co.uk with SMTP; 12 Apr 2002 13:43:50 -0000 To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT : creation of email lists From: Jane Williams Cc: Jane Williams X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-Mailer: NOCC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: Jane Williams List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 14:43:50 BST Status: RO Joan Garner wrote : > Since I plan to take this off-list now, I need to > learn how to make an email group. I've been looking into the various providers of this sort of service for other reasons: should it help, results so far are at: http://www.williams.nildram.co.uk/groups.htm And good luck! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 12 10:55:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA18204 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 10:55:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3CDphX07519; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 07:51:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3CDpge23833; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 07:51:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fepF.post.tele.dk (fepF.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.135]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3CDkUe22020 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 07:46:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from post12.tele.dk ([62.243.47.94]) by fepF.post.tele.dk (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20020412134628.PXTG16199.fepF.post.tele.dk@post12.tele.dk> for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 15:46:28 +0200 Message-ID: <3CB6E577.5F93348A@post12.tele.dk> From: Leif Drews X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Historically dressed dolls (WAS: Pagan Anglo-Saxon Barbie) References: <160BF0C70CC@mdx-cf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 15:47:36 +0200 Status: RO Hello. I have ben thinking about making some dolls like they made fashion dolls in 18th. century. They were made of wood, wooden faces and arms/fingers, but i could perhaps make them of papier machee. At an antique fair here in Copenhagen, i saw a doll made like the english fashion dolls. It would not have ben an original, then it would have ben a rarity, but the idea came to me when i saw this. I think it was about 12 inches tall and dressed in a robe a la francaise. Having this height it would not be difficult to have the fabric to fall nicely. My two cents.. Bjarne Teddy wrote: > > Do many people do historically dressed dolls on occasion? I've > > recently gotten interested in the topic via a side-door. The > > woman I was dating at the end of last year gave me a "Heather doll" > > for Christmas, with outfits and accessories that matched some of my > > own stuff, and I got inspired to start making clothes for her from > > my archaeological garments project. (So having started at the > > early end, I now have "Egtved Heather" and "Borum Eshøj Heather" > > outfits.) > > Before I got into costuming I made and dresses porcellaine dolls. > I've made cloth colls since I was about 13 (inexpensve and > personalised gifts for my sisters, niece and female cousins are a > good thing to an impoverished teenager who can sew!) and have > done several in historical clothes for friends' children to have > something less "modern-looking" to play with at events (often > dressed in outfits that match the child's costumes), as prizes for > fund-raising raffles etc... not had much time for it in recent years > however. There are two half-made ones in my "to do" pile which > we were going to raffle to raise money for group equipment for a > 15th century re-enactment gtoup that I'm in but I never got aroudn > to finishing them... and that was 2 years ago. > > Teddy > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Leif Drews boulevard 5, 3 th 1635 København V Bjarne Drews boulevard 5,3.th 1635 København V tlf. 35 37 13 70 My new domain name: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk Homepage: http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/~DeeDee_Revia/1index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 12 11:40:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA18360 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 11:40:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3CEbgX10844; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 08:37:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3CEbee11888; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 08:37:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3CEXbe10247 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 08:33:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=laptop) by albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16w27M-0005lk-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 07:33:36 -0700 From: "Saragrace knauf" To: Organization: PII Message-ID: <000301c1e22d$fd1b1220$6501a8c0@phoenix.speedchoice.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-reply-to: <054701c1e20e$4c5409c0$9e614e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Importance: Normal Subject: [h-cost] Doll-makers in your area: Was- Miniature Costumers Guild Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 07:26:08 -0700 Status: RO If anyone is interested, I can point you to many doll-makers in your area. There are folks who specialize in porcelain, and cloth. Both cover a huge spectrum of time and/or fantasy. Some of these dolls look so real it is hard to believe they are not life-sized. A good reference for cloth dolls (what I like of course) is a series of books by Susan Oroyan. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-form/002-5339163-3722448 There are even "Doll Universities" every year where you go to classes! If you are interested contact me off-line. Fair warning however!! It is another one of those past-times that is addicting!! Cheers, Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 12 12:34:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA18664 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 12:34:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3CFViX17178; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 09:31:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3CFVge09662; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 09:31:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r06.mx.aol.com (imo-r06.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.102]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3CFSGe07864 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 09:28:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.da.1692a4a9 (4560) for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 11:27:59 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Subject: Re: impossible sleeves was Re: [h-cost] Re: the eBay dress To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_da.1692a4a9.29e856fe_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10560 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 11:27:58 EDT Status: RO --part1_da.1692a4a9.29e856fe_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/12/2002 12:32:40 AM Eastern Daylight Time, kat@grendal.rain.com writes: > In other words, no matter how much extravagance is in the clothes, > they want it to be *in the clothes* where it can be seen, not on the > cutting room floor. > Not to mention the person actually cutting out the garment was not an aristocrat. --part1_da.1692a4a9.29e856fe_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/12/2002 12:32:40 AM Eastern Daylight Time, kat@grendal.rain.com writes:


In other words, no matter how much extravagance is in the clothes,
they want it to be *in the clothes* where it can be seen, not on the
cutting room floor.


Not to mention the person actually cutting out the garment was not an aristocrat. --part1_da.1692a4a9.29e856fe_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 12 13:04:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA18768 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 13:04:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3CG0jX20192; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 10:00:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3CG0fe25683; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 10:00:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com ([199.2.117.154]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3CFvBe23546 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 09:57:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 ([207.173.164.156]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g3CFv8P16105 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 08:57:09 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: impossible sleeves Message-ID: <3CB6A194.13296.1CE88C68@localhost> Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 08:57:56 -0700 Status: RO >With all this descussion of sleeves I've taken a closer look at a >lot of pictures and have noticed something perculiar - a white >strap or tape that goes over the shoulder. I've seen it in many >tudor-era paintings. In one picture it appears to have clips on the >ends which hold the skirt up. >http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/english.jpg >Can anyone tell me the reason for this? This is often discussed but I doubt anyone really knows what it is. (Conjecture is not knowing.) That's why someone suggested that it might have something to do with the sleeve. I'd have to check the archives to remember all the various permutations of possibilities that people have come up with, but a harness to hold up the skirt in back was one of them as I recall. By the way, you might want to turn off the HTML in your mail output as it can really play havoc with people's computers. Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 12 13:56:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA19018 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 13:56:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3CGr8X25245; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 10:53:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3CGr7e24964; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 10:53:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f57.law14.hotmail.com [64.4.21.57]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3CGnje23009 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 10:49:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 09:49:38 -0700 Received: from 169.233.40.178 by lw14fd.law14.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 16:49:33 GMT X-Originating-IP: [169.233.40.178] From: "Kala Jathos" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Apr 2002 16:49:38.0725 (UTC) FILETIME=[08D91D50:01C1E242] Subject: [h-cost] The "Ebay Dress" - is this it? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 09:49:33 -0700 Status: RO I've long since lost the link to the original dress that spawned this furor, but... Is this it, right here? http://store.museumreplicas.com/cgi-bin/www11650.filereader?3cb70f2803e43a32274dd8f5a506064d+EN/products/8145&2D1 Granted, I believe the ebay description said something about pearls, so they may have added a little embellishment... But I seem to remember it being this color and shape. The price seems about right as well. -Laura _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 12 14:18:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19120 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 14:18:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3CHEgX27522; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 11:14:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3CHEfe07832; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 11:14:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc54.attbi.com (rwcrmhc54.attbi.com [216.148.227.87]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3CHB7e05737 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 11:11:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from C59303A ([12.238.186.197]) by rwcrmhc54.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020412171101.ULDK15826.rwcrmhc54.attbi.com@C59303A> for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 17:11:01 +0000 Message-ID: <033c01c1e245$0a1120c0$c5baee0c@mckiny1.tx.home.com> From: "Chiara" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] The "Ebay Dress" - is this it? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 12:10:09 -0500 Status: RO Nope, that one does not even come close to the beauty of the other. It is a replica of the movie costume that was used in Queen Margot, a french film, based on the book Queen Margot by Alexandre Dumas père, 1831. This is the dress, http://www.costumes.org/subwebs/mwbh/images/margot.jpg and this is what was on ebay http://abacus.sj.ipixmedia.com/abc/M28/_EBAY_6d3e6b55ecf829c3853455a22/i-3.J PG Other movie costumes: www.costumes.org/subwebs/ mwbh/renaimovies.htm More Margot costume pictures: http://images.google.com/images?q=queen+margot&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search Sincerely, Franchesca Havas McKinney, Texas `°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°` ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kala Jathos" To: Sent: Friday, April 12, 2002 11:49 AM Subject: [h-cost] The "Ebay Dress" - is this it? > I've long since lost the link to the original dress that spawned this furor, > but... Is this it, right here? > > http://store.museumreplicas.com/cgi-bin/www11650.filereader?3cb70f2803e43a32 274dd8f5a506064d+EN/products/8145&2D1 > > Granted, I believe the ebay description said something about pearls, so they > may have added a little embellishment... But I seem to remember it being > this color and shape. The price seems about right as well. > > -Laura > > _________________________________________________________________ > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 12 14:40:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19256 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 14:40:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3CHatX29815; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 11:36:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3CHase20563; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 11:36:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from benfranklin.hnet.uci.edu (root@benfranklin.hnet.uci.edu [128.200.119.150]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3CHWue18267 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 11:32:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from UAOBRIEN.uci.edu (HIB435A.HNET.UCI.EDU [128.200.119.223]) by benfranklin.hnet.uci.edu (8.9.3/) with ESMTP id KAA01910 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 10:32:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020412101609.01b45e00@benfranklin.hnet.uci.edu> X-Sender: uaobrien@benfranklin.hnet.uci.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Ulrika A. O'Brien" In-Reply-To: <3CB656CD.A735E29@in-tch.com> References: <3CB55094.91DF5DBA@post12.tele.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] OT: Scandinavian Languages Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 10:35:04 -0700 Status: RO At 08:38 PM 4/11/2002, you wrote: >....I'm guessing, in my >undereducated, American way, that Swedish and Danish are similar, >linguistically? Do they belong to the same language family, the way that >French and Italian are both Romance languages? >--Sue Swedish and Danish are quite similar. They're both Germanic languages, but closer to each other, and Norwegian, and Icelandic, than they are to German, Dutch, or English (also a proto-Germanic language descendant, believe it or not). I've heard some people claim that spoken Danish and Swedish are mutually comprehensible, but that's not true of my experience. That is, I speak fluent Swedish but find spoken Danish almost totally opaque. There are too many weird vowel changes, among other stuff. I can generally muddle through *written* Danish okay, though. For spoken languages, I think Swedish and Norwegian are much more mutually comprehensible, though you get weird infelicities, as in the Norwegian for "pull" looks a lot like the Swedish for "push". To drag things back vaguely to costuming, the English word "berserk" comes from Scandinavian, presumably by way of the Vikings: it means "bear shirt". Ulrika O'Brien English & Comparative Literature University of California, Irvine 435 Humanities Instructional Building (949) 824-6712 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 12 14:48:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19307 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 14:48:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3CHjlX00761; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 11:45:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3CHjie25743; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 11:45:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hirogen.kabelfoon.nl (hirogen.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.69]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3CHe8e22471 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 11:40:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-fp02-157.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.121.157]) by hirogen.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2609F7CCD for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 19:40:03 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3CB71E94.D6E72538@kabelfoon.nl> From: Deredere & Owen Iskander X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] The "Ebay Dress" - is this it? References: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------F378785D7B40F2DB622E0488" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 19:51:16 +0200 Status: RO --------------F378785D7B40F2DB622E0488 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This was the dress http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1089872144 Much more beautifull. Greetings, Deredere Kala Jathos wrote: > I've long since lost the link to the original dress that spawned this furor, > but... Is this it, right here? > > http://store.museumreplicas.com/cgi-bin/www11650.filereader?3cb70f2803e43a32274dd8f5a506064d+EN/products/8145&2D1 > > Granted, I believe the ebay description said something about pearls, so they > may have added a little embellishment... But I seem to remember it being > this color and shape. The price seems about right as well. > > -Laura > > _________________________________________________________________ > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------F378785D7B40F2DB622E0488 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This was the dress

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1089872144

Much more beautifull.

Greetings,
        Deredere

Kala Jathos wrote:

I've long since lost the link to the original dress that spawned this furor,
but... Is this it, right here?

http://store.museumreplicas.com/cgi-bin/www11650.filereader?3cb70f2803e43a32274dd8f5a506064d+EN/products/8145&2D1

Granted, I believe the ebay description said something about pearls, so they
may have added a little embellishment... But I seem to remember it being
this color and shape. The price seems about right as well.

-Laura

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

--------------F378785D7B40F2DB622E0488-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 12 18:03:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA20153 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 18:03:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3CKxrX19905; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 14:59:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3CKxke06266; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 14:59:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r10.mx.aol.com (imo-r10.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.106]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3CKske03623 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 14:54:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.17.268d6ea0 (4254) for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 16:54:33 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <17.268d6ea0.29e8a389@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] The "Ebay Dress" - is this it? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_17.268d6ea0.29e8a389_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10560 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 16:54:33 EDT Status: RO --part1_17.268d6ea0.29e8a389_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/12/2002 1:15:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, chiara@io.com writes: > http://store.museumreplicas.com/cgi-bin/www11650.filereader?3cb70f2803e43a32 > 274dd8f5a506064d+EN/products/8145&2D1 > Ewwwwwww! --part1_17.268d6ea0.29e8a389_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/12/2002 1:15:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, chiara@io.com writes:


http://store.museumreplicas.com/cgi-bin/www11650.filereader?3cb70f2803e43a32
274dd8f5a506064d+EN/products/8145&2D1


Ewwwwwww! --part1_17.268d6ea0.29e8a389_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 12 18:53:14 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA20379 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 18:53:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3CLoKX26147; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 15:50:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3CLLAe17517; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 15:21:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from europa.cox-internet.com (europa-cox.cox-internet.com [208.180.118.40]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3CLGSe15312 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 15:16:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jd92601 ([208.180.60.149]) by europa.cox-internet.com (InterMail vK.4.03.05.03 201-232-132-103 license 180e1de7f543f89455b24e508f9cca39) with SMTP id <20020412211202.RZQM27180.europa@jd92601> for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 16:12:02 -0500 Message-ID: <006501c1e267$43ae74a0$953cb4d0@coxinternet.com> From: "Nancy DuPree" To: References: <200204111806.g3BI6pV27182@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Subject: [h-cost] Thanks! Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 16:16:08 -0500 Status: RO Thanks to all of you who have sent me such warm welcomes to the list today & yesterday. My husband has just got home from a business trip & I haven't had much time for replies... Regards, Nan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 12 19:04:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA20430 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 19:04:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3CM1gX27412; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 16:01:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3CM1ce06831; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 16:01:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from io.cox-internet.com (io-cox.cox-internet.com [208.180.118.41]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3CLX2e22635 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 15:33:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jd92601 ([208.180.60.149]) by io.cox-internet.com (InterMail vK.4.03.05.03 201-232-132-103 license 180e1de7f543f89455b24e508f9cca39) with SMTP id <20020412213059.IAKN7217.io@jd92601> for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 16:30:59 -0500 Message-ID: <000d01c1e269$94700fa0$953cb4d0@coxinternet.com> From: "Nancy DuPree" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Subject: [h-cost] Spanish Historic Garb Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 16:32:42 -0500 Status: RO Here is a site for the lady who wanted info on Spanish Garb. It is an all Spanish site & I am unable to translate. There are lots of drawings, though! http://www.historiaviva.org/vestimenta enjoy! Nan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 12 19:08:14 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA20447 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 19:08:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3CM5MX27776; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 16:05:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3CM5Je08790; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 16:05:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from io.cox-internet.com (io-cox.cox-internet.com [208.180.118.41]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3CLOJe18986 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 15:24:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jd92601 ([208.180.60.149]) by io.cox-internet.com (InterMail vK.4.03.05.03 201-232-132-103 license 180e1de7f543f89455b24e508f9cca39) with SMTP id <20020412212216.HVXA7217.io@jd92601> for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 16:22:16 -0500 Message-ID: <007101c1e268$5c578400$953cb4d0@coxinternet.com> From: "Nancy DuPree" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Subject: [h-cost] Historic Fashion Dolls Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 16:23:59 -0500 Status: RO Joan, You may already have to decide about the SCA thingie as I haven't rejoined yet, But I would be interested in a historic dolls club, thingie. May rejoin the SCA eventually -- who knows? Barbie's aren't period -- how are you planning on getting them past the period cops who abounded in the group that I used to belong to? Regards, Nan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 12 19:34:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA20572 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 19:34:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3CMVBX00763; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 16:31:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3CMV0e20840; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 16:31:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtprelay6.dc2.adelphia.net (smtprelay6.dc2.adelphia.net [64.8.50.38]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3CMJTe15624 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 16:19:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [68.65.178.96] ([68.65.178.96]) by smtprelay6.dc2.adelphia.net (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 smtprelay6 Dec 7 2001 09:58:59) with ESMTP id GUH76N00.FX5 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 18:15:59 -0400 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Spanish Historic Garb From: randl To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <000d01c1e269$94700fa0$953cb4d0@coxinternet.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 18:15:59 -0400 Status: RO There is an option to view it in english. laurie > > Here is a site for the lady who wanted info on Spanish Garb. It is an all > Spanish site & I am unable to translate. There are lots of drawings, > though! > > http://www.historiaviva.org/vestimenta > > enjoy! > > Nan > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 12 20:14:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA20772 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 20:13:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3CNAmX03684; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 17:10:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3CNAje07760; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 17:10:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3CMm1e28028 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 16:48:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.32.118]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GUH006RY8O03O@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 15:48:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Historic Fashion Dolls In-reply-to: <007101c1e268$5c578400$953cb4d0@coxinternet.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020412154625.04fb9960@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 15:47:47 -0700 Status: RO >Barbie's aren't period -- how are you planning on getting them past the >period cops who abounded in the group that I used to belong to? Neither is arriving at an event in a motor vehicle, which I'm sure those self-styled period cops did. Saying ' that's not period' isn't period either. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 12 21:29:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA21075 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 21:29:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3D0R2X08142; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 18:27:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3D0R1e02692; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 18:27:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from clmboh1-smtp3.columbus.rr.com (clmboh1-smtp3.columbus.rr.com [65.24.0.112]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3D0Q4e02425 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 18:26:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 39jz301 (dhcp065-024-177-132.columbus.rr.com [65.24.177.132]) by clmboh1-smtp3.columbus.rr.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id g3D0Q3W16281 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 20:26:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <003301c1e281$bb512380$84b11841@columbus.rr.com> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: References: <4.3.1.2.20020412154625.04fb9960@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Historic Fashion Dolls MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 20:25:30 -0400 Status: RO Greetings! > >Barbie's aren't period -- how are you planning on getting them past the > >period cops who abounded in the group that I used to belong to? The best response I know to "that's not period" is "I know." Then smile sweetly. That takes away the "knowledge is power" trip that most snarks are on. (Don't get me wrong--I believe in standards and authenticity, but I also believe there are much better ways to make it happen). In any case, while Barbie dolls are not period for the SCA period (the group I play with), dolls to demonstrate the latest fashions are indeed period for at least the 16th century. So while I don't think you're ever going to be able to corset Barbie into the correct Elizabethan shape, and while I don't think the Elizabethan versions ever went on a date with Ken, the *concept* of Barbie is a lot closer to this particular period than some might think. Susan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 12 22:32:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA21347 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 22:32:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3D1T2X10745; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 19:29:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3D1T1e19778; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 19:29:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp4.ihug.co.nz (smtp4.ihug.co.nz [203.109.252.5]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3D1SKe19514 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 19:28:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p226-nas10.akl.ihug.co.nz (user) [203.173.212.226] by smtp4.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1 (Debian)) id 16wCKu-00067Y-00; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 13:28:17 +1200 Message-ID: <003801c1e28a$1e684a40$e2d4adcb@user> From: "michaela" To: References: <3CB6A194.13296.1CE88C68@localhost> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: impossible sleeves MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 13:25:30 +1200 Status: RO > I'd have to check the archives to remember all the various > permutations of possibilities that people have come up with, but a > harness to hold up the skirt in back was one of them as I recall. Except that in a lot of paintings it ends in full view at the front and isn't connected to anything at all. And you can see pins in them occasionally, not really strong enough to hold up the full weight of a skirt. So I'm thinking that the thing seen in the Holbein sketch did have a real structural purpose and could be related to the other white things.. but the the other white.. things don't serve the same purpose. While English aristocracy at this time probably really didn't want to wear anything that looked like something worn by the working classes, perhaps a later analogy might be all the "rustic" dresses worn by Marie Antoinette and co.? Which were in fact totally unsuitable to milk a cow in;). A purely decorative representation of something that was actually useful? Or then it might simply appear to our eyes as looking similar, but in fact are totally unrelated.... > By the way, you might want to turn off the HTML in your mail > output as it can really play havoc with people's computers. And could people not send onliners? Twice today I've scrolled down messages only to find a few words which really did not contribute to any discussion. michaela _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 12 23:10:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA21632 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 23:10:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3D285X12143; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 20:08:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3D282e00831; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 20:08:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3D27te00805 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 20:07:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.32.118]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GUH00GANHNXHH@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 19:02:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Historic Fashion Dolls In-reply-to: <003301c1e281$bb512380$84b11841@columbus.rr.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020412184909.04fd7f00@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <4.3.1.2.20020412154625.04fb9960@mail.frys.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 18:51:11 -0700 Status: RO >(Don't get me wrong--I believe in standards and authenticity, but I also >believe there are much better ways to make it happen). You're correct - there are much better ways than by displaying rudeness. And I never doubted your standards. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Apr 13 00:12:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA21840 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 00:12:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3D392X14332; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 21:09:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3D391e15333; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 21:09:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp1.ihug.co.nz (smtp1.ihug.co.nz [203.109.252.7]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3D387e15127 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 21:08:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p226-nas10.akl.ihug.co.nz (user) [203.173.212.226] by smtp1.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1 (Debian)) id 16wDtU-0002ES-00; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 15:08:05 +1200 Message-ID: <001601c1e298$10675b80$e2d4adcb@user> From: "michaela" To: References: <4.3.1.2.20020412154625.04fb9960@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20020412184909.04fd7f00@mail.frys.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Subject: [h-cost] Spanish Court Dress, pleats revisted;) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 15:05:19 +1200 Status: RO Kia ora all, I was looking trough my costume files and found the pattern for a Spanish Court Dress in Davenport's "Book of Costume" which I have always loved and thinking about recreating. Then I tried to find info on the net.. which lead nowhere fast but lead me to the discussion on the horizontal lines seen in the front of late 16thC Spanish court costume. I have Blanche Payne's patterns from the back of the 1st ed. of her History of Costume and Draft 6a and b show a pattern for a childs Spanish dress from this time. The front of the skirt does not have a pleat/tuck but the *back* does. And it's graduated, and curved. Taking a better look at the front of the gowns in portraits I see that the skirt appears curved at the hems, and the line would create a segment with the hem if the curve and line were extended till they touched. http://www.marquise.de/1500/pics/1580_1.shtml Shows this perfectly. You can see pattern of the skirt isinterupted by the border in a curved way. And that the tuck also interupts the pattern so it was done after the border was applied too. See how the tuck ends atthe side, and how after it seems to end the fabric of the skirt falls in folds? Could it be this tuck served to hold the skirt smooth in front in some way? Maybe it was pinned/tacked to the farthingale? or a cord ran through it.. or... anyway it seems to serve a purpose other than shortening the skirt length. I chose a bad day to write as I feel very I wouldn't say empty but muddled and can't focus of things well. It's probably because my sleeping apattern is completely out of whack and my brain thinks I should be sleeping. But I just wanted you to know I didn't forget but technology got in the way.. again. Please write to let us know how you are now. Love Mickey Mum and Chris send their love too. o what is interesting about this childs pattern is that where the fabric is not seen (back of body, skirt and top of undersleeve) it is plain linen, while that which is seen is heavily embroidered.. but no note as to what material. Seems a sensible economic approach, if somewhat inconguously practical in this style of dress;). _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Apr 13 00:26:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA21895 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 00:26:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3D3O1X14893; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 21:24:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3D3O0e18804; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 21:24:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3D3NVe18691 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 21:23:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dandy.net (pvil2225.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.237.225]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA05920 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 23:23:28 -0400 Message-ID: <3CB7A490.54BFAA23@dandy.net> From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Historic Fashion Dolls References: <4.3.1.2.20020412154625.04fb9960@mail.frys.com> <003301c1e281$bb512380$84b11841@columbus.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 23:22:56 -0400 Status: RO Hi, All. Since the SCA isn't a real historical reenactment group, and has no costume/clothing standards other than an attempt at pre-17th Cent. clothing, what is the difference? If you want to voluntarily be more authentic, I applaud it, and recommend looking into documentation for styles and shapes of dolls from the various periods that still exist (I have seen a few, and will provide info on request). If you just want to create costume for dolls, that is great, too. I hope that I never am found going to someone unasked and pointing out the obvious, for a multiplicity of reasons, but I would suggest that, if you can, go ahead and try and use historical documentation for your historic costume. That way, as Susan pointed out, you can begin with the correct shape and silhouette, which is, as most costumers are aware, a fundamental aspect of the design of clothing. And besides, except for creating (or recreating), the thing that stands out in this group is it's committment to history, yes? Mike T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Apr 13 00:52:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA21981 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 00:52:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3D3n2X15820; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 21:49:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3D3n1e24753; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 21:49:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3D3mNe24560 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 21:48:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.32.118]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GUH00682MKL3M@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 20:48:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Historic Fashion Dolls In-reply-to: <3CB7A490.54BFAA23@dandy.net> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020412204410.04f97810@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <4.3.1.2.20020412154625.04fb9960@mail.frys.com> <003301c1e281$bb512380$84b11841@columbus.rr.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 20:48:14 -0700 Status: RO >documentation for styles and shapes of dolls from >the various periods that still exist (I have seen a few, and will provide info >on request). Am interested, both in images online and in book titles/ISBNs. You do know that rod puppets, hand puppets, and some forms of string-operated puppets are SCA period, as is the profession of doll-maker? The earliest paper dolls I have seen are from the 1630's. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Apr 13 05:24:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA18288 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 05:24:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3D8M5X23637; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 02:22:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3D8M1e21442; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 02:22:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ivsmtp02la.mail2world.com (ivsmtp02la.mail2world.com [66.28.189.73]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3D8Lfe21374 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 02:21:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from arweb02la (unverified [10.1.201.102]) by ivsmtp02la.mail2world.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.6) with ESMTP id for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 01:20:01 -0700 thread-index: AcHixAGOBbYvoqCyQuK+m4Ve9/GCeQ== Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Gustav III wedding suit From: "ruiyin" To: Cc: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gustav III wedding suit Message-ID: <000201c1e2c4$01969e00$66c9010a@mail2world.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0003_01C1E289.553AD340" X-Mailer: Microsoft CDO for Exchange 2000 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message Importance: normal Priority: normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 01:20:01 -0700 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C1E289.553AD340 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable _______________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE email account at iVillage.com! http://webmail.ivillage.com/=20 <-----Original Message-----> >=20 > From: Kate M Bunting > At the risk of jumping the gun on our Scandinavian members - Swedish, Danish and Norwegian are all=20 > very similar They are, I speak Swedish and am able to read both Danish and Norwegian but hardly understand anything when I hear them spoken. Norwegian written language is very similar to Danish, but I=B4m not going to start the discussion what is a language and what is a dialect -- I=B4m not an expert and anyway it=B4s too off-topic. > BYW, my Swedish dictionary translates "dr"akt" as "dress" too, but the original heading of this thread=20 > made me smile, visualising King Gustav in a bridal gown! To keep this on-topic, I always thought all the different words for male and female garments were very confusing in English. I never know which word to use even when discussing modern wear, not to mention different periods in history. But I would like to see Gustav III in that panier dress in Livrustkammarens main page. Riina ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C1E289.553AD340 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit _______________________________________________________________
Get your own FREE email account at iVillage.com!
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<-----Original Message----->
>
> From: Kate M Bunting
> At the risk of jumping the gun on our Scandinavian members - Swedish, Danish and Norwegian are all
> very similar

They are, I speak Swedish and am able to read both Danish and Norwegian but hardly understand anything when I hear them spoken. Norwegian written language is very similar to Danish, but I´m not going to start the discussion what is a language and what is a dialect -- I´m not an expert and anyway it´s too off-topic.

> BYW, my Swedish dictionary translates "dr"akt" as "dress" too, but the original heading of this thread
> made me smile, visualising King Gustav in a bridal gown!

To keep this on-topic, I always thought all the different! words for male and female garments were very confusing in English. I never know which word to use even when discussing modern wear, not to mention different periods in history. But I would like to see Gustav III in that panier dress in Livrustkammarens main page.

Riina

------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C1E289.553AD340-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Apr 13 08:51:00 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA18965 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 08:51:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3DBl2X27719; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 05:47:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3DBl1e13666; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 05:47:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp4.ihug.co.nz (smtp4.ihug.co.nz [203.109.252.5]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3DBkme13634 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 05:46:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p35-nas5.akl.ihug.co.nz (user) [203.173.209.35] by smtp4.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1 (Debian)) id 16wLzR-0003Gd-00; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 23:46:45 +1200 Message-ID: <002f01c1e2e0$8b2cb840$23d1adcb@user> From: "michaela" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Spanish Court Dress, pleats revisted;) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 23:44:15 +1200 Status: RO OK.. teaches me never to have two emails open at once especially when I've admitted to being totally off form today too.. not only did I not finish what I wanted to say, but inserted a bit of a private email to my brother over in Oz.. thank goodness it was merely the end of the email.. anyway below is what I had written minus the stuff to my brother. I was hoping to find some more examples of the tuck to illustrate and expand on what I had written but now I'm too embarassed to go any further;) michaela > Kia ora all, > > I was looking trough my costume files and found the pattern for a Spanish > Court Dress in Davenport's "Book of Costume" which I have always loved and > thinking about recreating. Then I tried to find info on the net.. which lead > nowhere fast but lead me to the discussion on the horizontal lines seen in > the front of late 16thC Spanish court costume. > > I have Blanche Payne's patterns from the back of the 1st ed. of her History > of Costume and Draft 6a and b show a pattern for a childs Spanish dress from > this time. > The front of the skirt does not have a pleat/tuck but the *back* does. And > it's graduated, and curved. > > Taking a better look at the front of the gowns in portraits I see that the > skirt appears curved at the hems, and the line would create a segment with > the hem if the curve and line were extended till they touched. > http://www.marquise.de/1500/pics/1580_1.shtml > Shows this perfectly. You can see pattern of the skirt isinterupted by the > border in a curved way. And that the tuck also interupts the pattern so it > was done after the border was applied too. > > See how the tuck ends at the side, and how after it seems to end the fabric > of the skirt falls in folds? Could it be this tuck served to hold the skirt > smooth in front in some way? Maybe it was pinned/tacked to the farthingale? > or a cord ran through it.. or... anyway it seems to serve a purpose other > than shortening the skirt length. > > o what is interesting about this childs pattern is that where the fabric > is not seen (back of body, skirt and top of undersleeve) it is plain linen, > while that which is seen is heavily embroidered.. but no note as to what > material. > > Seems a sensible economic approach, if somewhat inconguously practical in > this style of dress;). > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Apr 13 10:10:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA19254 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 10:10:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3DD82X29855; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 07:08:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3DD80e29157; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 07:08:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r01.mx.aol.com (imo-r01.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.97]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3DD7pe29134 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 07:07:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from BOSTONHAHN@aol.com by imo-r01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.185.6b68b1f (4328) for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 09:07:44 -0400 (EDT) From: BOSTONHAHN@aol.com Message-ID: <185.6b68b1f.29e9879f@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1 Looking for information on Swiss clothing To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_185.6b68b1f.29e9879f_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10563 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 09:07:43 EDT Status: RO --part1_185.6b68b1f.29e9879f_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry to answer this message so late. Holbein did 5 or 6 edgings on Swiss Ladies, it was called a costume study. If you cannot find those pictures I have them in a Holbein exhibit book. If I am not mistaken the exhibit was in Basel Switzerland. Elisabeth --part1_185.6b68b1f.29e9879f_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry to answer this message so late.  Holbein did 5 or 6 edgings on Swiss Ladies, it was called a costume study.  If you cannot find those pictures I have them in a Holbein exhibit book.  If I am not mistaken the exhibit was in Basel Switzerland.
Elisabeth --part1_185.6b68b1f.29e9879f_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Apr 13 12:55:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA19969 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 12:55:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3DFr2X05573; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 09:53:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3DFr1e05260; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 09:53:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.91]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3DFqPe05108 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 09:52:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 16wPpA-000IP2-0X; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 16:52:24 +0100 Message-ID: To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@net.indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: impossible sleeves References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1;format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 21:09:01 +0100 Status: RO We had a huge discussion on these white things a while back, and nobody knew what they were. There aren't enough pictures of people's backs (as ever). I'm inclined to think they're a non-functional relic of some earlier item - maybe a small shawl? I've looked very closely at this picture, because I was doing that style, and I'm pretty sure the clips are on a separate piece. The straps over the shoulders appear to be pinned down the sides and finish just above waist level. I've tried the overall arrangement of skirts with my similar dress, and I reckon with a bumroll the strap with the clips on would just go round the back of the waist and stay there. I don't wear a bumroll, and I don't have a natural shelf, so I cheated with a belt loop centre back. Jean Rebecca Anderson wrote >With all this descussion of sleeves I've taken a closer look at a lot of >pictures and have noticed something perculiar - a white strap or tape that >goes over the shoulder. I've seen it in many tudor-era paintings. In one >picture it appears to have clips on the ends which hold the skirt up. >http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/english.jpg >Can anyone tell me the reason for this? >  >Rebecca Anderson >aka >Lady Adele Anders > >Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: Click Here >_______________________________________________ h-costume >mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Apr 13 12:57:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA19983 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 12:57:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3DFrGX05586; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 09:53:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3DFrGe05310; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 09:53:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.91]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3DFqPe05107 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 09:52:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 16wPpA-000IP2-0X; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 16:52:24 +0100 Message-ID: To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@net.indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: impossible sleeves References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1;format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 21:09:01 +0100 Status: RO We had a huge discussion on these white things a while back, and nobody knew what they were. There aren't enough pictures of people's backs (as ever). I'm inclined to think they're a non-functional relic of some earlier item - maybe a small shawl? I've looked very closely at this picture, because I was doing that style, and I'm pretty sure the clips are on a separate piece. The straps over the shoulders appear to be pinned down the sides and finish just above waist level. I've tried the overall arrangement of skirts with my similar dress, and I reckon with a bumroll the strap with the clips on would just go round the back of the waist and stay there. I don't wear a bumroll, and I don't have a natural shelf, so I cheated with a belt loop centre back. Jean Rebecca Anderson wrote >With all this descussion of sleeves I've taken a closer look at a lot of >pictures and have noticed something perculiar - a white strap or tape that >goes over the shoulder. I've seen it in many tudor-era paintings. In one >picture it appears to have clips on the ends which hold the skirt up. >http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/english.jpg >Can anyone tell me the reason for this? >  >Rebecca Anderson >aka >Lady Adele Anders > >Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: Click Here >_______________________________________________ h-costume >mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Apr 13 14:25:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA20314 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 14:25:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3DHM4X08742; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 11:22:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3DHM1e25684; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 11:22:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3DHLoe25631 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 11:21:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [216.119.36.134] (helo=[216.119.36.134]) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16wRDg-0005NC-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 10:21:49 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: impossible sleeves From: Sarah Lorraine To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 10:21:49 -0700 Status: RO on 4/12/02 1:09 PM, Jean Waddie at anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk wrote: > We had a huge discussion on these white things a while back, and nobody > knew what they were. There aren't enough pictures of people's backs (as > ever). I'm inclined to think they're a non-functional relic of some > earlier item - maybe a small shawl? I'm forgetting who mentioned this, but it was a few days ago... The theory of single piece/draped sleeves, remember? Well, initially I think I was reading the post and misunderstanding the nature of the construction that was being discussed (I'm too much a visual person) but my mind made a leap from that description to those white straps... What if the white straps *were* functional (at least initially) in that they were designed to keep the sleeves from falling off the shoulders? Maybe it's a giant leap, but for someone who has been obsessing about these blasted things for years now, it's no less implausible than any other suggestion I've heard. Perhaps once I'm am done murdering the current gown project (or it's murdering me, to be more exact) I'll go back and really dig for early examples of the white straps on early Tudor style gowns and see if I can draw some better connections here. Just idly theorizing at the moment, it could be argued that those white straps were hung onto as an accessory in later Tudor styles, even after fitting became more precise. And out of curiosity... Has anyone ever observed these white straps on women from countries other than England? To the best of my knowledge, there is only one other portrait of a Florentine woman that has what looks like white straps, but I'm not convinced that they are what they appear to be. Okay, enough of my rambling... :) Sarah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Apr 14 00:15:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA23163 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 00:15:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3E3D6X29693; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 21:13:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3E3D0e04870; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 21:13:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r05.mx.aol.com (imo-r05.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.101]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3E3Che04815 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 21:12:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Azelana@aol.com by imo-r05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 7.123.f0e0bc4 (4231) for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 23:12:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Azelana@aol.com Message-ID: <123.f0e0bc4.29ea4da3@aol.com> To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 124 Subject: [h-cost] Re: jeweled square??? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 23:12:35 EDT Status: RO << As I noted a while back, in Aileen Ribeiro's "Gallery of Fashion"on page 34 she states that "the jewelled "square" holding the neckline in place prevents the heavy sleeves from slipping off the shoulders".>> OK, I don't have this book, so what "jeweled square" are we talking about? Can you link me to a pic online? I just came back from Barnes & Noble where I found a book of costuming through history. The author was not at all informed, using words like "bonnet" for "caul", etc, but the book WAS filled with period paintings! One showed a 16th Century party where most of the women wore dresses with open ruffs and the way the skirts draped suggested a wheel farthingale. The nice part about the painting was how it showed the backs of dresses. To support an open ruff, the dresses had full fabric backs, and from extant garments I understand there should be to holes in the dress at the top where the ruff laces in place. Many gowns had a large --often square-- jewelled brooch dead center between the shoulder blades with a ribbon or cord extending from it on either side to the shoulders. Is this what you are referring to? --Gillian _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Apr 14 00:20:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA23196 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 00:20:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3E3I0X29866; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 21:18:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3E3I0e05794; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 21:18:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3E3HDe05674 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 21:17:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Azelana@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 7.116.fa2cc3f (4231) for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 23:16:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Azelana@aol.com Message-ID: <116.fa2cc3f.29ea4eab@aol.com> To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 124 Subject: [h-cost] Re: SCA 2003 Known World Costume Symposium Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 23:16:59 EDT Status: RO In a message dated 4/9/02 6:44:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time, h-costume-request@indra.com writes: << And I just heard that the same bunch o' people won the bid for the SCA's 2003 Known World Costume Symposium, to be in October in Denver. Should be a blast ;-) >> As an SCA newbie, I didn't know we had an annual costume symposium. Cool! But... Denver? That's nowhere near Boston... *sigh* Are there pics of past events somewhere on the net? --Gillian _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Apr 14 00:52:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA23304 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 00:52:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3E3o3X01030; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 21:50:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3E3o2e11907; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 21:50:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3E3nhe11859 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 21:49:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dandy.net (pvil2101.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.237.101]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA29269 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 23:49:40 -0400 Message-ID: <3CB8FC1F.B23CDED6@dandy.net> From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Historic Fashion Dolls References: <4.3.1.2.20020412154625.04fb9960@mail.frys.com> <003301c1e281$bb512380$84b11841@columbus.rr.com> <4.3.1.2.20020412204410.04f97810@mail.frys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 23:48:47 -0400 Status: RO Hi, Katya. Looked at both the images. I like your standard Landsknecht, very nice. The 60's Landsknecht is, well, what can you say, but.... LOUD! Wow! I didn't think I could see in that wavelength! The pluderhose with the ribbon codpiece are very nice, as is the doublet. I have a few cross-dressing friends that would be quite impressed with your work. You are not the person I had originally seen, though, although I must say that you hurt my eyes far worse than the other fellow. Well done. Docs on historical dolls off the top of my head as follows: Richard Hackluit " The True Pictures and Fashions of the People in that Parte of America Now Called Virginia..." 1588 Copperplates by Theodore de Bry Plate VIII " A cheiff Ladye of Pomeiooc" shows a Powhatan girl with a doll and a rattle, both European made. The text reads " They are greatlye Deligted with puppetts, and babes which wear brought oute of England". Jan Steen "The Feast of St. Nicholas" dated 1660 in the Rijksmuseum in Amsterdam shows a little girl with a doll modelled after St. Nicholas, perhaps more a toy than a religious icon. It has a solid base like a statue. The book "Pride and Joy; Children's Portraits in the Netherlands 1500-1700" ed. Jan Baptist Bedaux and Rudi Ekkart 2000 Harry Abrams Pubs. NY ISBN 0-8109-6730-8 has an entire chapter dedicated to Children's Toys. It states that "The first occurence of a doll in a portrait is that of Isabella, one of the three children of Archduke Philip the Handsome and his wife Joan "the Mad" of Aragon." The three illos in this book of dolls are dated 1502, 1591 and 1596, with another dated 1660 that has two dolls as well as furniture. I am searching for an archaeological catalog that I recently got that has a picture of an excavated doll's head and torso, made out of wood and dated, IIRC, to the late 16th Cent. When and if the fog clears and I remember where I saw it, I'll get back to you. If you can't find these images on a websearch or other means, I can send them to you. Let me know if you need them. Cheers, Mike T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Apr 14 01:03:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA23368 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 01:03:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3E411X01366; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 22:01:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3E410e13973; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 22:01:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3E40Pe13843 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 22:00:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dandy.net (pvil2101.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.237.101]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA23112 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 00:00:22 -0400 Message-ID: <3CB8FEB3.FD09369E@dandy.net> From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Historic Fashion Dolls References: <4.3.1.2.20020412154625.04fb9960@mail.frys.com> <003301c1e281$bb512380$84b11841@columbus.rr.com> <4.3.1.2.20020412204410.04f97810@mail.frys.com> <3CB8FC1F.B23CDED6@dandy.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 23:59:47 -0400 Status: RO Well, now, how did that one slip by? This was supposed to be a private message. Sorry, everyone, for the confusion. Sorry, Katya, I thought I replied to you personally. I'm a bonehead (but you knew that...) Mike T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Apr 14 01:11:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA23394 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 01:11:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3E491X01672; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 22:09:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3E490e15549; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 22:09:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m03.mx.aol.com (imo-m03.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.6]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3E48Le15428 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 22:08:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Azelana@aol.com by imo-m03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 7.5f.25c94ba5 (4231) for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 00:08:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Azelana@aol.com Message-ID: <5f.25c94ba5.29ea5aad@aol.com> To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 124 Subject: [h-cost] Re: impossible sleeves + new question Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 00:08:13 EDT Status: RO Looking at at painting c. 1570 London (unnamed artist), courtesy of "What Life Was Like in the Realm of Elizabeth" by Time/Life... The dresses in this painting have those same rolls half-off the shoulder. 2 ladies have their backs to us, showing a straight horizontal neckline line that is simply higher (a hand's width maybe?) than the bustline in the front -- no V's. This is a relief, seeing as how that's what I did on the dress I'm making. I cannot make out any lacing up the back, however... Should my dress be opening up the front instead? Take a look at the "Pelican Portrait" below. http://www.tudorhistory.org/elizabeth/pelican.jpg Could it be that these dresses opened in front with hooks and eyes instead? The trim pattern could support such an idea... Please tell me BEFORE I cut my fabric! Thanks, Gillian _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Apr 14 01:13:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA23398 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 01:13:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3E4B1X01727; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 22:11:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3E4B0e15960; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 22:11:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lakemtao03.cox.net (lakemtao03.cox.net [68.1.17.242]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3E4AMe15812 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 22:10:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from VMAAHQ ([68.10.161.53]) by lakemtao03.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with ESMTP id <20020414041017.YKSU18064.lakemtao03.cox.net@VMAAHQ> for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 00:10:17 -0400 From: "Linda Rice" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: SCA 2003 Known World Costume Symposium Message-ID: <000001c1e36a$9da0bc80$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <116.fa2cc3f.29ea4eab@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 00:12:33 -0400 Status: RO Don't worry, it moves around. Last year it was in Indiana, this year I believe it's in Michigan, and next year is Denver. There is a Yahoo group dedicated to it, check it out here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/KWCostume_Symposium/ For pictures of some of the attendees, go here: http://www.geocities.com/mr_mcclane/costume/kwcs00.html It was a lot of fun. Unfortunately I'll have to miss out on this year's event. I'm hoping that whoever gets it for 2004 is on the east coast. I drove 14 hours to get to Indiana, did the event on Saturday, and then drove home. Boy was I tired! Linda >> As an SCA newbie, I didn't know we had an annual costume symposium. Cool! But... Denver? That's nowhere near Boston... *sigh* Are there pics of past events somewhere on the net? --Gillian _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Apr 14 01:46:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA23491 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 01:46:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3E4e1X02622; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 22:40:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3E4e0e21415; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 22:40:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m08.mx.aol.com (imo-m08.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.163]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3E4dHe21244 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 22:39:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Azelana@aol.com by imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 7.9e.24ea3fa7 (4231) for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 00:39:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Azelana@aol.com Message-ID: <9e.24ea3fa7.29ea61e4@aol.com> To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 124 Subject: [h-cost] Re: more "jewelled square?" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 00:39:00 EDT Status: RO In a message dated 4/10/02 12:28:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, h-costume-request@indra.com writes: << Indeed, though the square of jewels is present in all the portraits that I have found of that fashion. Take a look at the portrait of Elizabeth as princess (http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Elizabeth%20I%20P.jpg) >> Looking at the portrait above, are we talking about her square brooch, or the square neckline of the dress-- which is also jewelled? In either case, I'm having trouble understanding how they keep the sleeves in place. I've used my own brooch to keep my embroidered smock edge peeking up out of my bodice, as seen in portraits of Elizabeth I. For that, I just pin through both the bodice and smock. But that would not help the sleeves in any way, so I'm guessing then you mean the neckline of the gown. I did not think the jewels were linked by metal, however. I had thought the jewels were just sewn individually to the edge like trim. Confused... Gillian _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Apr 14 02:35:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA23723 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 02:35:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3E5X1X04001; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 23:33:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3E5X0e01475; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 23:33:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m05.mx.aol.com (imo-m05.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3E5Wke01424 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 23:32:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Azelana@aol.com by imo-m05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 7.c9.20982ab1 (4231) for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 01:32:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Azelana@aol.com Message-ID: To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 124 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Elizabethan corsets (WAS impossible sleeves/eBay dress) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 01:32:29 EDT Status: RO << Actually, verifiable corsets from that period are non-existent, and thus I am somewhat surprised by your apparent conviction that you know what the corsets actually did to the breasts. >> MY Elizabethan corset doesn't push the breasts down... Going from the term "straight-bodied" for the French gown listed in QE I's wardrobe, I made a corset that is straight in front -- no princess seams, no curves at all. It's made of 2 layers of fabric sewn together to create the boning channels, then edged with bias. The only seams are where each strap attaches to the body in back! The effect is a very narrow body down to the waist on the sides and back, down to the abdomin in front. From a profile, it would look like the front was a straight line pointing up towards the 2 on a standard clock. Once cinched, I then have to use my hands to lift each breast to the desired cleavage -- where it stays even though I'm a small size. They ARE flattened, but that just makes them pop upward. The shape looks just like the shapes of gowns from portraits of Elizabeth. For my gown, then, I used the same pattern, but filled in the area from the straps to the armscye. Wearing a corset in the same shape as your gowns allows you to use less boning in each gown, saving you money. Did they wear corsets, though? The effigy corset page below would probably be a good place to check on the documentability of corsets in 16th Century England. http://www.dnaco.net/~aleed/corsets/effigy.htm --Gillian _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Apr 14 04:40:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA24711 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 04:40:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3E7c2X07005; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 01:38:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3E7c0e24509; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 01:38:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53.attbi.com [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3E7b1e24327 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 01:37:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default.attbi.com ([24.245.40.181]) by rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020414073655.GRKE1083.rwcrmhc53.attbi.com@default.attbi.com> for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 07:36:55 +0000 Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20020414023325.02bcb0b0@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: dannw@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: jeweled square??? In-Reply-To: <123.f0e0bc4.29ea4da3@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 02:35:48 -0500 Status: RO Greetings, Well, the author may not be as uninformed as you might think. I've been doing a lot of research with 16th century English wills and haven't yet come across the term "caul." However, I have found a number of mentions of bonnets... So, it is a possibility. Cheers, Danielle At 11:12 PM 4/13/2002 -0400, you wrote: >I just came back from Barnes & Noble where I found a book of costuming >through history. The author was not at all informed, using words like >"bonnet" for "caul", etc, but the book WAS filled with period paintings! One >showed a 16th Century party where most of the women wore dresses with open >ruffs and the way the skirts draped suggested a wheel farthingale. The nice >part about the painting was how it showed the backs of dresses. To support >an open ruff, the dresses had full fabric backs, and from extant garments I >understand there should be to holes in the dress at the top where the ruff >laces in place. Many gowns had a large --often square-- jewelled brooch dead >center between the shoulder blades with a ribbon or cord extending from it on >either side to the shoulders. Is this what you are referring to? > >--Gillian _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Apr 14 11:14:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA30089 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 11:14:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3EEB7X15520; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 08:11:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3EEB0e21634; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 08:11:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d02.mx.aol.com (imo-d02.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3EEAie21582 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 08:10:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.24.23e77bd0 (4441) for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 10:10:31 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <24.23e77bd0.29eae7d7@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Elizabethan corsets (WAS impossible sleeves/eBay dress) To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_24.23e77bd0.29eae7d7_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10560 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 10:10:31 EDT Status: RO --part1_24.23e77bd0.29eae7d7_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 4/14/2002 1:33:29 AM Eastern Daylight Time,=20 Azelana@aol.com writes: > Once cinched, I then have to use my hands to lift each breast to the=20 > desired cleavage -- where it stays even though I'm a small size. They ARE= =20 > flattened, but that just makes them pop upward.=20 But you're not supposed to have cleavage. Yes, they are smashed flat but not= =20 lifted up...like a Wonder Bra. And if you look at gowns a little after=20 Elizabeth I, which are cut essentially the same but with a scooped neckline,= =20 the breast definitely looks pushed down...or just flat....but not up. This all hoopla came about because I called the neckline a d=E9colletage, wh= ich=20 I STILL say it is, because it's not high. --part1_24.23e77bd0.29eae7d7_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 4/14/2002 1:33:29 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Azelana@aol.= com writes:


Once cinched, I then have t= o use my hands to lift each breast to the=20
desired cleavage -- where it stays even though I'm a small size.  T= hey ARE=20
flattened, but that just makes them pop upward.

But you're not supposed to have cleavage. Yes, they are smashed flat but= not lifted up...like a Wonder Bra. And if you look at gowns a little after=20= Elizabeth I, which are cut essentially the same but with a scooped neckline,= the breast definitely looks pushed down...or just flat....but not up.

This all hoopla came about because I called the neckline a d=E9colletage= , which I STILL say it is, because it's not high. --part1_24.23e77bd0.29eae7d7_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Apr 14 12:50:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA30575 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 12:50:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3EFm1X18695; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 09:48:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3EFm0e11884; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 09:48:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from whirlwind.netspace.net.au (whirlwind.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.76]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3EFlae11798 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 09:47:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from chris (dialup-a1-128.Melbourne.netspace.net.au [202.45.96.128]) by whirlwind.netspace.net.au (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id g3EFlWX90232 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 01:47:33 +1000 (EST) From: "Christopher Ballis" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Victorian Roman Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20020411220335.73262.qmail@web14001.mail.yahoo.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 01:47:03 +1000 Status: RO It's been done....there's a Victorian corset in Gladiator, -C. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Apr 14 14:15:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA31034 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 14:15:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3EHD2X22040; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 11:13:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3EHD0e01453; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 11:13:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from copacabana.rio.com (root@copacabana.rio.com [66.178.128.44]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3EHC8e01313 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 11:12:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [208.137.120.110] (ppp110.t0.rio.com [208.137.120.110]) by copacabana.rio.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g3EHC8Y08857 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 10:12:08 -0700 (PDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 From: Gary Walker To: Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Frontier House is coming Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 10:11:18 -0700 Status: RO Will be on Oregon PBS at the end of the month, starting to see a lot of promos. Just saw an "ad" featuring a LOT of ladies and teen-age girls in their camisoles (waist length, at least one with corset over), and gents working shirtless... (obviously summer) somehow this just doesn't jibe with my preconceptions, vague and uninformed as the are (I'm a lot better at 7th-13thC!), of how people of the period (they're supposed to be sometime ACW-to-early-Victorian) would have dealt with hot weather or sweaty work... My husband also ran his same rant as at the Victorian House -- these are interesting but really just sensationalist journalism, because they throw these modern people into these situations without any real training of how to do the everyday things that period people grew up knowing how to do from childhood! And then everything goes to heck in a handbasket, they almost starve, injure themselves, are miserable without the modern world -- setting the average audience up for "see how much better we have it now, wasn't it awful then" Has anyone seen this yet, elsewhere in the country, or is all of PBS doing it ... April 29-May 1 (with a full repeat on Sunday May 5, here in Oregon, anyway) Patsy in Eugene OR _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Apr 14 14:16:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA31043 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 14:16:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3EHE1X22079; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 11:14:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3EHE1e01684; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 11:14:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.92]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3EHDUe01550 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 11:13:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 16wnZB-0007Wi-0Y; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 18:13:29 +0100 Message-ID: To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@net.indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: jeweled square??? References: <123.f0e0bc4.29ea4da3@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <123.f0e0bc4.29ea4da3@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 18:12:58 +0100 Status: RO Azelana@aol.com wrote > ><< As I noted a while back, in Aileen Ribeiro's "Gallery of Fashion"on > page 34 she states that "the > jewelled "square" holding the neckline in place prevents the heavy > sleeves > from slipping off the shoulders".>> > >OK, I don't have this book, so what "jeweled square" are we talking about? >Can you link me to a pic online? > >I just came back from Barnes & Noble where I found a book of costuming >through history. The author was not at all informed, using words like >"bonnet" for "caul", etc, but the book WAS filled with period paintings! One >showed a 16th Century party where most of the women wore dresses with open >ruffs and the way the skirts draped suggested a wheel farthingale. The nice >part about the painting was how it showed the backs of dresses. To support >an open ruff, the dresses had full fabric backs, and from extant garments I >understand there should be to holes in the dress at the top where the ruff >laces in place. Many gowns had a large --often square-- jewelled brooch dead >center between the shoulder blades with a ribbon or cord extending from it on >either side to the shoulders. Is this what you are referring to? > >--Gillian Ooh, this sounds interesting. Can you tell us the painter and name of the painting, so we can go and look for it elsewhere? I don't think I've seen this brooch and cord arrangement before. I believe the jewelled square referred to is the jewelled decoration around the square neckline. Obviously Aileen Ribeiro believes this is a rigid thing that would stop the neckline shifting. Personally I think it's unlikely, but everyone's entitled to their own theory, in the absence of useful contemporary writings telling us all the technical details!! Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Apr 14 14:16:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA31047 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 14:16:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3EHE4X22092; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 11:14:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3EHE4e01706; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 11:14:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.92]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3EHDUe01551 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 11:13:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 16wnZB-0007Wi-0Y; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 18:13:29 +0100 Message-ID: To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@net.indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: jeweled square??? References: <123.f0e0bc4.29ea4da3@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <123.f0e0bc4.29ea4da3@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 18:12:58 +0100 Status: RO Azelana@aol.com wrote > ><< As I noted a while back, in Aileen Ribeiro's "Gallery of Fashion"on > page 34 she states that "the > jewelled "square" holding the neckline in place prevents the heavy > sleeves > from slipping off the shoulders".>> > >OK, I don't have this book, so what "jeweled square" are we talking about? >Can you link me to a pic online? > >I just came back from Barnes & Noble where I found a book of costuming >through history. The author was not at all informed, using words like >"bonnet" for "caul", etc, but the book WAS filled with period paintings! One >showed a 16th Century party where most of the women wore dresses with open >ruffs and the way the skirts draped suggested a wheel farthingale. The nice >part about the painting was how it showed the backs of dresses. To support >an open ruff, the dresses had full fabric backs, and from extant garments I >understand there should be to holes in the dress at the top where the ruff >laces in place. Many gowns had a large --often square-- jewelled brooch dead >center between the shoulder blades with a ribbon or cord extending from it on >either side to the shoulders. Is this what you are referring to? > >--Gillian Ooh, this sounds interesting. Can you tell us the painter and name of the painting, so we can go and look for it elsewhere? I don't think I've seen this brooch and cord arrangement before. I believe the jewelled square referred to is the jewelled decoration around the square neckline. Obviously Aileen Ribeiro believes this is a rigid thing that would stop the neckline shifting. Personally I think it's unlikely, but everyone's entitled to their own theory, in the absence of useful contemporary writings telling us all the technical details!! Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Apr 14 15:55:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA31713 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 15:55:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3EIr2X25934; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 12:53:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3EIr0e25022; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 12:53:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3EIqje24969 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 12:52:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pool0401.cvx20-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.251.146]) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16wp7B-0007aX-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 11:52:44 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: lilinah@mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: To: h-costume@indra.com From: lilinah@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan corsets (WAS impossible sleeves/eBay dress) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 11:51:49 -0700 Status: RO Azelana@aol.com wrote: >MY Elizabethan corset doesn't push the breasts down... Going from the term >"straight-bodied" for the French gown listed in QE I's wardrobe, I made a >corset that is straight in front -- no princess seams, no curves at all. >It's made of 2 layers of fabric sewn together to create the boning channels, >then edged with bias. The only seams are where each strap attaches to the >body in back! The effect is a very narrow body down to the waist on the >sides and back, down to the abdomin in front. From a profile, it would look >like the front was a straight line pointing up towards the 2 on a standard >clock. Are the straps on your "corset" or on the bodice of your gown? >Once cinched, I then have to use my hands to lift each breast to the >desired cleavage -- where it stays even though I'm a small size. They ARE >flattened, but that just makes them pop upward. But, see, you are lifting and relocating them after the corset flattens them :-) I work at Ren Faires, and nowhere in Elizabethan art do i see the eye-gouging tits-out look of most female Ren Faire actors. I am a DD yet i do NOT have "that look" because i adjust my breasts so they are comfortable but NOT oozing over the top of my corset. Elizabethan women did not look like Jayne Mansfield, no matter how well-endowed they were. I consider that look to be a "Ren Fair-ism". While i'm not quite with Albert Cat on the squashed flat thing, a properly fitted Elizabethan corset does NOT produce the melons-on-a-platter look that i see at Ren Fairs and in the SCA. >Wearing a corset in the same shape as your gowns allows you to use less >boning in each gown, saving you money. One way i achieve an appropriate look without poking someone in the face (not because i'm a prude, but because it is WRONG for Elizabethan) is boning the bodice as well as wearing a boned corset. That way my alabaster orbs are appropriately located and covered. If "tits up, girls" was right for Elizabethan, i'd do it, but it isn't. Corsets weren't there to pop flesh "over the top", they were for support and to give an appropriate line and smoothness to the outer garments. The firm, even stiff, smoothness of the basic garment look is not enhanced by having 2 soft jiggly half-moons sticking out over the upper edge of the gown front. >Did they wear corsets, though? Well, they weren't called corsets. Women in the higher classes wore "a pair of bodies". As far as i can tell, lower middle class women and working women didn't wear them, but i also suspect that their doublets or "bodices" were stiffly lined and/or incorporated stays of some sort. Even the upper class women's "pairs of bodies" didn't use the metal stays we use now, either, they usually used some sort of plant matter - clumps of rushes, for example, material that i imagine would be available to other women as well. Modesty Thorneycroft / Philomel Fernley (at Ren Fairs) Anahita al-Qurtubiyya bint 'abd al-Karim al-Fassi (in the SCA) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Apr 14 16:47:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA32040 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 16:47:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3EJj1X28143; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 13:45:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3EJj0e08254; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 13:45:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r01.mx.aol.com (imo-r01.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.97]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3EJi6e08068 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 13:44:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.131.c2f9c20 (24896) for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 15:43:58 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <131.c2f9c20.29eb35f6@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan corsets (WAS impossible sleeves/eBay dress) To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_131.c2f9c20.29eb35f6_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10560 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 15:43:50 EDT Status: RO --part1_131.c2f9c20.29eb35f6_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/14/2002 2:54:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lilinah@earthlink.net writes: > While i'm not quite with Albert Cat on the squashed flat thing, a > properly fitted Elizabethan corset does NOT produce the > melons-on-a-platter look that i see at Ren Fairs and in the SCA. > We are in more agreement than you might suppose. I'm not speaking from experience, like you. I've never worn Elizabethan Drag. But your more informed description is just what I mean. --part1_131.c2f9c20.29eb35f6_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/14/2002 2:54:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lilinah@earthlink.net writes:


While i'm not quite with Albert Cat on the squashed flat thing, a
properly fitted Elizabethan corset does NOT produce the
melons-on-a-platter look that i see at Ren Fairs and in the SCA.


We are in more agreement than you might suppose. I'm not speaking from experience, like you. I've never worn Elizabethan Drag. But your more informed description is just what I mean. --part1_131.c2f9c20.29eb35f6_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 15 02:24:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA30031 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 02:24:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3F5LXX22073; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 23:21:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3F5LLe01395; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 23:21:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.garbersoft.net ([63.150.225.3]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3F4v9e25549 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 22:57:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mantua (0-2pool32-25.nas2.stockton1.ca.us.da.qwest.net [65.141.32.25]) by smtp.garbersoft.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 1A4CB80B6 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 04:58:58 +0000 (UCT) Message-ID: <000d01c1e43a$482b06e0$19208d41@mantua> From: "Deb Salisbury, the Mantua-Maker" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Subject: [h-cost] re: pelican-type bodice Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 21:59:09 -0700 Status: RO > Could it be that these dresses opened in front with hooks and eyes instead? > The trim pattern could support such an idea... Please tell me BEFORE I cut > my fabric! This type of bodice could have been laced, or possibly hooked, at the side back seams. Have a look at "Patterns of Fashion" on page 103. That way the front decoration would not be compromised. Thank you for the new web site! I had missed that one. Deb The Mantua-Maker _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 15 03:08:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA30213 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 03:08:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3F65nX23424; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 00:05:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3F65me10436; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 00:05:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f108.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.108]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3F5pme07677 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 23:51:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 22:51:42 -0700 Received: from 68.6.212.114 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 05:51:41 GMT X-Originating-IP: [68.6.212.114] From: "jessica stier" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Apr 2002 05:51:42.0692 (UTC) FILETIME=[9E89C240:01C1E441] Subject: [h-cost] Sitting in a Bustle? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 05:51:41 Status: RO Hello All. I just finished watching the movie "Topsy-Turvy" about Gilbert & Sullivan's making of the Mikado. It has beautiful and detailed costumes from the 1890's. There is a fantastic women's dressing room scene that shows the female actors in all sorts of undress. I loved this scene because I started thinking about what undergarments would have to be worn to make this classic 1890's sillouette. This scene pretty much answered my questions. I was very fasinated by the side view of a bustle that seemed to be made of a cage of boning. There was a line if stiffened fabric that ran from the tail bone down to below the woman's knees. This line of fabric seemed to be held away from her body by little hoops of boning that varied in size from large (higher up) to small (lower down). The bustle looked very flexible. And then she put on a half slip, petty coat type of skirt over the top and then her dress. I started thinking about bustles and how a lady could sit comfortably while wearing one. I'm also wondering how one could sit and then stand back up and have your bustle be in place. I looked online to see if there was much information about the construction and wearing of a bustle, but did not have much luck. Doeas anyone have any first hand experience in creating and wearing a bustle? Or any good websites to which you could point me? Thanks in advance. :) jessica _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 15 05:05:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA30706 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 05:05:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3F831X27110; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 02:03:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3F830e03787; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 02:03:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3F7x8e03032 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 01:59:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.32.118]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GUL00CEHNIIWV@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 00:59:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sitting in a Bustle? In-reply-to: X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020415004544.00c06100@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 00:59:02 -0700 Status: RO >It has beautiful and detailed costumes from the 1890's. 1880's. By 1890 bustles are nothing but a bunch of pleating at the back of a basically round skirt. The skirt gets rounder, and the pleats fewer, as the decade progresses. By maybe 1898 even the pleats are gone. >I started thinking about bustles and how a lady could sit comfortably >while wearing one. I'm also wondering how one could sit and then stand >back up and have your bustle be in place. They fold up as you sit, then unfold, by gravity, as you stand up. Since the hoops are only hanging on tapes, this is not difficult to engineer. Also, you don't sit way back on chairs in them, so there's plenty of room for the folded bits plus petticoats plus skirt drapery. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 15 07:04:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA31187 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 07:04:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3FA23X00433; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 04:02:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3FA21e12502; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 04:02:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3FA1ge12428 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 04:01:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from melaniew ([213.78.88.245]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AFK75976; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 11:01:37 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <018301c1e465$217db1c0$dd4e4ed5@melaniew> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sitting in a Bustle? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 11:05:53 +0100 Status: RO I wear a chae bustle as do others of my group, it is fine to sit in you can sit fairly upright & they concertena under you or in more relaxed circumstances, lie in the chair at 45 degrees or so. (there are plenty of Punch cartoons showing this method ) U think there are photos of us sitting in the falkenstein section of www.myphotos.org.uk Mel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 15 08:52:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA31764 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 08:52:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3FBo2X03082; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 05:50:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3FBo1e03859; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 05:50:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from inje.iskon.hr (inje.iskon.hr [213.191.128.16]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3FBnCe03661 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 05:49:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jkale.public.srce.hr (st02-191.dialin.iskon.hr [213.202.67.192]) by mail.iskon.hr (8.11.4/8.11.4/Iskon 8.11.3-1) with ESMTP id g3FBmtS11070 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 13:48:55 +0200 (MEST) Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.0.20020415135059.00a4cbc0@jagor.srce.hr> X-Sender: jkale@jagor.srce.hr X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 To: h-costume@net.indra.com From: Jadran Kale Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] book query: Horn's "Second skin" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 13:59:28 +0200 Status: RO Hello, any insights about Marilyn Horn's "Second skin: An Interdisciplinary Study of Clothing"? It was published in: 1968, IX+435 pages, hardcover, 1975, 468 pages, textbook, 1981, XII+514 pages, hardcover. In 1975 an "Instructor's Manual" for this book exists, with 122 pages. The author's new book from 1991 is "The history of home economics in Nevada". "Second skin" could be also browsed under "home economics" category. Thanks in advance! Yours, Jadran Kale Zupanijski muzej, P.p.7, HR-22001 Sibenik Croatia: 385 (0) 22/ 213-880, fax 213-355 @ http://zupanija.sibenik.museum - - Sent with PINE 4.10 from CARNet - - _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 15 09:27:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA31950 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 09:27:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3FCP1X04321; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 06:25:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3FCP0e12517; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 06:25:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f138.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.138]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3FCOre12471 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 06:24:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 05:24:48 -0700 Received: from 206.148.224.201 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 12:24:46 GMT X-Originating-IP: [206.148.224.201] From: "Parsla Liepa" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sitting in a Bustle? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Apr 2002 12:24:48.0128 (UTC) FILETIME=[888DB000:01C1E478] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: pliepa@deepthought.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 08:24:46 -0400 Status: RO When I was a child, I had a book called "Guess Again" (or something of that ilk...) that featured odd inventions of years past and you were to guess what its intended purpose was, from a multiple choice list. One that stands out clearly in my memory was a bustle that incorporated a small folding stool -- all the lady had to do was lean back, and the stool would unfold, providing her with a place to sit. Parsla >>I started thinking about bustles and how a lady could sit comfortably >>while wearing one. I'm also wondering how one could sit and then stand >>back up and have your bustle be in place. > >They fold up as you sit, then unfold, by gravity, as you stand up. Since >the hoops are only hanging on tapes, this is not difficult to >engineer. Also, you don't sit way back on chairs in them, so there's >plenty of room for the folded bits plus petticoats plus skirt drapery. -- Vocatus atque non vocatus, Deus aderit. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 15 10:54:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA32519 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 10:54:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3FDq3X08528; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 07:52:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3FDq1e13460; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 07:52:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3FDpHe13138 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 07:51:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from melaniew (213-78-71-198.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.71.198]) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AFM90908; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 14:51:06 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <012401c1e485$35116400$9c594ed5@melaniew> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sitting in a Bustle? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 14:53:34 +0100 Status: RO >One that stands out clearly in my memory was a bustle that incorporated a small folding stool -- all the lady had to do was lean back, and the stool would unfold, providing her with a place to sit. It was a Victorian patent, but not something in common use as far as I can ascertain We keep toying with the idea of making one :) Mel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 15 12:44:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00607 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 12:44:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3FFfAX20340; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 09:41:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3FFWqd01442; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 09:32:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m8.boston.juno.com (m8.boston.juno.com [64.136.24.71]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3FFVMd00539 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 09:31:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OkVoKlAAZwm+rDjXiki8EXU="> Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m8.boston.juno.com (jqueuemail) id GYFSZVNY; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 11:27:53 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: Cley@juno.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Frontier House is coming Message-ID: <20020415.082709.-181707.2.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,7-9,11,13,15,17,19,21-27 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 08:24:10 +0000 Status: RO Hi Chineme! :-) I hope they do a much better job with Frontier House than they did with the Victoria House. It had the potential to be a fascinating look into domestic history of the period and failed miserably. For a bunch of folks who said they were looking for people willing to work in recreating history, there was an awful lot of modernism rearing its inapproriate face. > My husband also ran his same rant as at the Victorian House -- these > are interesting but really just sensationalist journalism, because they > throw these modern people into these situations without any real training > of how to do the everyday things that period people grew up knowing how to > do from childhood! And then everything goes to heck in a handbasket, they > almost starve, injure themselves, are miserable without the modern world -- > setting the average audience up for "see how much better we have it now, > wasn't it awful then" Yeah, it was pretty pathetic. Arlys in Oregon _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 15 12:54:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00686 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 12:54:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3FFq2X21600; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 09:52:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3FFq1d13330; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 09:52:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from relay1.primushost.com (poseidon.shore.net [207.244.124.88]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3FFo9d12362 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 09:50:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from (shell3.shore.net) [207.244.124.103] (exim) by relay1.primushost.com with esmtp (Exim) id 16x8jl-0001lH-00; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 11:49:49 -0400 Received: from vintage by shell3.shore.net with local (Exim) for h-costume@indra.com id 16x8jk-00051g-00; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 11:49:48 -0400 From: Katy Bishop To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Frontier House is coming In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 11:49:48 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO The Frontier House is set in 1883 from what I gather. They asked me if I could copy some of my period magazines from the Summer of 1883, Delineator, Harper's bazar and The Young Ladies' Journal. I even found a modern paper that was the exact color of Delineator's from that year, that facsimilie was pretty convincing. They were done for the family's visit to a general store. I offered them a copy of a Butterick Polonaise pattern from Nov. 1883, but they thought it was too fancy, here's a picture of it on my webpage: www.vintagevictorian.com/1883_polonaise.html I love the pattern, made it a couple of times, very simple. They wanted a pattern for a work dress instead. Oh well. I do wish they would do one of these shows with well trained reenactors for once. All the pictures I've seem on TV the ladies have been in their underwear. Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 15 12:56:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00703 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 12:56:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3FFs3X21854; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 09:54:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3FFs3d14616; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 09:54:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web20307.mail.yahoo.com (web20307.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.88]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g3FFrLd14143 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 09:53:23 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020415155318.90406.qmail@web20307.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.163.106.50] by web20307.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 08:53:18 PDT From: Joan Garner To: costume list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Riding habits & side-saddles Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 08:53:18 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO Can anyone explain to me how one actually sits in a side-saddle? I've seen a woman in voluminous skirts on a side-saddle, but you couldn't see how she was actually sitting. I've seen a side-saddle up close, sans rider. I'm very puzzled! If that oddly-placed horn was between your thighs somehow, you'd fall right off. Joan Hall/Iohanna the Harper __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 15 13:00:14 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00731 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 13:00:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3FFv1X22232; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 09:57:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3FFv1d16549; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 09:57:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from out012.verizon.net (out012pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.137]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3FFuLd16152 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 09:56:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default ([151.199.133.3]) by out012.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with SMTP id <20020415155619.XNTR1346.out012.verizon.net@default> for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 10:56:19 -0500 Message-Id: <2.2.32.20020415155633.006e0c2c@mail.verizon.net> X-Sender: vze2brpf@mail.verizon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Ron Carnegie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Frontier House is coming Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 11:56:33 -0400 Status: RO At 10:11 AM 4/14/02 -0700, you wrote: >Will be on Oregon PBS at the end of the month, starting to see a lot of >promos. Just saw an "ad" featuring a LOT of ladies and teen-age girls in >their camisoles (waist length, at least one with corset over), and gents >working shirtless... (obviously summer) > >somehow this just doesn't jibe with my preconceptions, vague and uninformed >as the are (I'm a lot better at 7th-13thC!), of how people of the period >(they're supposed to be sometime ACW-to-early-Victorian) would have dealt >with hot weather or sweaty work... > >My husband also ran his same rant as at the Victorian House -- these are >interesting but really just sensationalist journalism, because they throw >these modern people into these situations without any real training of how >to do the everyday things that period people grew up knowing how to do from >childhood! And then everything goes to heck in a handbasket, they almost >starve, injure themselves, are miserable without the modern world -- setting >the average audience up for "see how much better we have it now, wasn't it >awful then" > >Has anyone seen this yet, elsewhere in the country, or is all of PBS doing >it ... April 29-May 1 (with a full repeat on Sunday May 5, here in Oregon, >anyway) > >Patsy in Eugene OR I do not know for sure about "Frontier House", but this was the very premise of "Victorian House". Not to dertermine if life was more difficult than today, but to see how somebody from the present thrown into the situation would respond. They are really more socialogical experiments than historic reenactments. I do know that when "Frontier House" was looking for a family, that I was not eligible due to my background and familiarity with lifeskills of the past. These are of course not "sensationalist" journalism, as they are not really journalism at all. I have my doubts about the camisoles by the bye, but there are photographs of men working in their shirt sleeves in the period in question. Particularly on the American Frontier. Cowboys for instance are often photographed in their shirt sleeves. Cheers, Ron Carnegie r.carnegie@verizon.net ************************************************* "The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground walked other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow." G.M. Trevelyan ************************************************* _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 15 13:26:00 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00851 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 13:25:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3FGM2X25568; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 10:22:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3FGM1d03333; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 10:22:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta05bw.bigpond.com (mta05bw.bigpond.com [139.134.6.95]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3FGLnd03179 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 10:21:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from creecom.threnody.org ([144.135.24.78]) by mta05bw.bigpond.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 mta05bw Feb 26 2002 03:44:21) with SMTP id GUMAS500.H9M for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 02:21:41 +1000 Received: from WNPP-p-203-54-40-10.prem.tmns.net.au ([203.54.40.10]) by bwmam04.mailsvc.email.bigpond.com(MailRouter V3.0j 29/794652); 16 Apr 2002 02:21:41 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20020416015745.00a03170@mail.bigpond.com> X-Sender: threnody@mail.bigpond.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Threnody Subject: Re: [h-cost] Riding habits & side-saddles In-Reply-To: <20020415155318.90406.qmail@web20307.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 02:21:01 +1000 Status: RO At 08:53 2002-04-15 -0700, you wrote: >Can anyone explain to me how one actually sits in a >side-saddle? I've seen a woman in voluminous skirts >on a side-saddle, but you couldn't see how she was >actually sitting. I've seen a side-saddle up close, >sans rider. I'm very puzzled! If that oddly-placed >horn was between your thighs somehow, you'd fall right >off. > >Joan Hall/Iohanna the Harper Modern side saddle habits have the back part of the skirt cut away, they look a little like an apron with a "bum cover". (My mother used to ride side saddle a lot.) When you're on the horse, you can't really tell that it's just a "bum cover". And you wear breeches underneath, of course. :) Sometimes a split skirt is worn. Period habits, I'm not sure exactly, but I believe mostly you just arranged your skirts so that the larger bunches of material were towards the front. Your right leg hooks over the upper horn, and your left leg sits under the lower one (it's not supposed to actually press up against it during ordinary riding) and rests in the stirrup; you sit facing the front. Generally pre 1600 or so, the lady actually did sit sideways on the horse on a saddle that was more like a platform and sometimes had a footrest, and I think it was the early 1600s (quite possibly earlier, I'm not 100% sure) that the horned saddle came into use and ladies could sit facing the front. A second horn was added in the early 1830s to help with stability when jumping. There are patterns and drawings of modern and period habits here: http://users.tinyworld.co.uk/sidesaddlelady/Catalogue%20-%20dressmaking%20patterns.html My mother riding sidesaddle in a modern formal habit: http://www.threnody.org/misc/sidesaddle01.jpg - Sonia _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 15 13:34:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00905 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 13:34:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3FGW2X26779; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 10:32:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3FGW1d09914; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 10:32:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web20309.mail.yahoo.com (web20309.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.90]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g3FGVZd09628 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 10:31:35 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020415163134.7144.qmail@web20309.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.163.106.50] by web20309.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 09:31:33 PDT From: Joan Garner Subject: Re: [h-cost] Riding habits & side-saddles To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020416015745.00a03170@mail.bigpond.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 09:31:33 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO --- Threnody wrote: > Your right leg hooks over the upper horn, Ah...thank you...that one fact makes it all click into place for me. Thanks too for the links. Joan Hall __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 15 13:46:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00941 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 13:46:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3FGi3X28614; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 10:44:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3FGi2d18159; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 10:44:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m8.boston.juno.com (m8.boston.juno.com [64.136.24.71]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3FGhYd17802 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 10:43:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/Ohw5EdwuvGtUFpAGBvrjALo="> Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m8.boston.juno.com (jqueuemail) id GYFXAKWV; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 12:42:32 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Riding habits & side-saddles Message-ID: <20020415.094113.-181707.1.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-3,5-23 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 09:16:38 +0000 Status: RO I thought you sort of hooked your knee around it. Arlys On Mon, 15 Apr 2002 08:53:18 -0700 (PDT) Joan Garner writes: > Can anyone explain to me how one actually sits in a > side-saddle? I've seen a woman in voluminous skirts > on a side-saddle, but you couldn't see how she was > actually sitting. I've seen a side-saddle up close, > sans rider. I'm very puzzled! If that oddly-placed > horn was between your thighs somehow, you'd fall right > off. > > Joan Hall/Iohanna the Harper > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax > http://taxes.yahoo.com/ > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 15 14:48:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA01121 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 14:48:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3FHk4X06156; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 11:46:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3FHk2d27986; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 11:46:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.mmcable.com (fe2.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.163.49]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3FHjld27824 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 11:45:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from frankenputer ([65.28.128.192]) by mail2.mmcable.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.537.53); Mon, 15 Apr 2002 12:40:31 -0500 Message-ID: <003a01c1e4a5$8b2e03f0$c0801c41@frankenputer> From: "Jennene Stanley" To: References: <20020415155318.90406.qmail@web20307.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Riding habits & side-saddles MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 12:46:59 -0500 Status: RO Hey.... I have only ridden a English side saddle so here goes. There is a pommel and a leaping head that the legs wrap around that keeps a lady in her seat. The earlier period ones (I think) did not have the leaping head. Modern saddles have break-away stirrups, so if one fell over that off side, you're not dragged. Unfortunately some Victorian ladies did get killed this way. For more information goto: http://www.sidesaddleinternational.com/ Jennene Stanley *********************************************************************** "Chase the light I see ahead. Luminate the path I tread. I live to be the best I can" - Queensrÿche *********************************************************************** "Mooharpist" send e-mail to : Mooharpist@mmcable.com Elizabethan (& Regency) Website http://phelan.ou.edu/anya House Moo Home http://homepage.mac.com/housemoo _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 15 15:39:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA01376 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 15:39:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3FIalX12109; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 12:36:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3FIajd29558; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 12:36:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from relay1.primushost.com (poseidon.shore.net [207.244.124.88]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3FIZFd28763; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 12:35:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from (shell3.shore.net) [207.244.124.103] (exim) by relay1.primushost.com with esmtp (Exim) id 16xBJh-0003Gx-00; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 14:35:05 -0400 Received: from vintage by shell3.shore.net with local (Exim) id 16xBJh-0003YW-00; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 14:35:05 -0400 From: Katy Bishop To: vintage costume , historic costume Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] Place to wear Ragtime costumes Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 14:35:05 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Here is a place to wear costumes, and participate activities, from the Ragtime Era, if you live in the New England Area, or want to come visit for the weekend. The flyer for the May 11-12 Ragtime Dance Weekend, in West Newton, MA, is now available on the web, with printable registration form! Register now! http://www.vintagedancers.org/20020511_ball.html Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. Posted to vintage-dance by Katy Bishop _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 15 16:09:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA01548 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 16:09:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3FJ72X15131; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 13:07:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3FJ70d17387; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 13:07:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3FJ6gd17190 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 13:06:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.32.118]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GUM00CVNIF2VY@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 12:06:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Place to wear Ragtime costumes In-reply-to: X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020415115905.05113720@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 12:00:21 -0700 Status: RO >Ragtime Era, What set of years do you mean by 'Ragtime Era'? (Just a question, not a flame.) Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 15 16:10:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA01557 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 16:10:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3FJ7UX15176; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 13:07:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3FJ7Td17667; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 13:07:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3FJ6hd17207 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 13:06:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.32.118]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GUM00CVNIF2VY@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 12:06:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sitting in a Bustle? In-reply-to: <018301c1e465$217db1c0$dd4e4ed5@melaniew> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020415120210.00c31e00@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 12:06:01 -0700 Status: RO >I wear a chae bustle as do others of my group, it is fine to sit in you can >sit fairly upright & they concertena under you or in more relaxed >circumstances, lie in the chair at 45 degrees or so. (there are plenty of >Punch cartoons showing this method ) There are period photos of folks in corsets doing the same 45 degree thing. >U think there are photos of us sitting in the falkenstein section of >www.myphotos.org.uk Cool pictures. What was the event / were the events? What is the group? I'd like to find an 1880's group a little nearer to San Francisco, California, than you are. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 15 16:16:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA01586 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 16:16:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3FJE2X15848; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 13:14:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3FJE1d21475; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 13:14:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from relay2.primushost.com (relay2.primushost.com [207.244.125.21]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3FJDRd21193 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 13:13:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from (shell3.shore.net) [207.244.124.103] (exim) by relay2.primushost.com with esmtp (Exim) id 16xBvJ-00044J-00; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 15:13:57 -0400 Received: from vintage by shell3.shore.net with local (Exim) id 16xBum-0002L6-00; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 15:13:24 -0400 From: Katy Bishop To: Carolyn Kayta Barrows cc: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Place to wear Ragtime costumes In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20020415115905.05113720@mail.frys.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 15:13:24 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO We usually consider it to be 1910-20 for our dance group, or 1900-1920's if we are being more general. Our dance group does 1913-14 for costuming, but the music we use is more wide ranging. In vintage dance people have taken to calling the early 20th century period Ragtime. Katy. On Mon, 15 Apr 2002, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > >>Ragtime Era, > >What set of years do you mean by 'Ragtime Era'? (Just a question, not a >flame.) > >Kayta > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( >/----\ /---\)) > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 15 18:11:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA02142 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 18:11:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3FL91X28871; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 15:09:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3FL90d26563; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 15:09:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r01.mx.aol.com (imo-r01.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.97]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3FL8ld26396 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 15:08:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.1ac.c6d590 (17528) for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 17:08:31 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <1ac.c6d590.29ec9b4e@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Place to wear Ragtime costumes To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_1ac.c6d590.29ec9b4e_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10560 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 17:08:30 EDT Status: RO --part1_1ac.c6d590.29ec9b4e_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Good question, but you may safely put at the turn of the 19th century. In my box of CDs of all of Scott Joplin's compositions, the earliest is 1895 and the latest is 1917. --part1_1ac.c6d590.29ec9b4e_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Good question, but you may safely put at the turn of the 19th century. In my box of CDs of all of Scott Joplin's compositions, the earliest is 1895 and the latest is 1917. --part1_1ac.c6d590.29ec9b4e_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 15 18:13:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA02148 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 18:13:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3FLB2X29351; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 15:11:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3FLB1d27923; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 15:11:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3FL9rd27114 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 15:09:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (213-78-73-77.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.73.77]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AFL22623; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 22:09:50 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <022901c1e4c2$bdb61660$325d4ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <4.3.1.2.20020415120210.00c31e00@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sitting in a Bustle? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 22:15:56 +0100 Status: RO >Cool pictures. Thanks > What was the event / were the events? They vary we have various events where we hire a property & go Victorian Adventuring, Gorge walking, roller skating, 8-9 meals a day, gothic banquets, you know the average Victorian holiday ;) > What is the group? A group of friend just entering 1874 we play Castle Falkenstien a alternative Steam Punk universe !! >I'd like to find an 1880's group a little nearer to San Francisco, California, than you are. I guess it is a way to travel :) Start one that's all we did ! Mel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 15 18:30:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA02209 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 18:30:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3FLSCX03150; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 15:28:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3FLSAd09624; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 15:28:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r07.mx.aol.com (imo-r07.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.103]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3FLRNd09143 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 15:27:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from FyneHats2@aol.com by imo-r07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.18a.67e6294 (3941) for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 17:27:12 -0400 (EDT) From: FyneHats2@aol.com Message-ID: <18a.67e6294.29ec9faf@aol.com> To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 121 Subject: [h-cost] Bustle information Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 17:27:11 EDT Status: RO Jessica Stier and other interested folk, One really great place for bustle construction information is : Truly Victorian 18925 John F. Kennedy Drive Riverside, CA 92508 (909) 780-3112 Online it is: www.trulyvictorian.com. The owner/designers are Laura and Heather McNaughton and they have fantastic victorian reproduction patterns for 1870-1899. They teach often at the Costumer's Guild West's annual Costume College and would probably be able to give you the answers you need. Hope this helps. Donna Scarfe Fyne Hats By Felicity www.fynehatsbyfelicity.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 15 20:39:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA02697 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 20:39:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3FNb2X22080; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 17:37:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3FNb1d22767; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 17:37:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com (dl.mixmeister.net [66.210.221.206]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3FNaid22584; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 17:36:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cc261386a [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A4321F400DA; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 18:37:22 -0500 Message-ID: <005101c1e4d6$4c9bd5a0$0300a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] Book Closeout Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 19:35:59 -0400 Status: RO Broadway Press is having a 50% off closeout sale on some of their costume history books. You might want to check it out at http://www.broadwaypress.com/booklist.html Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by plugit.com] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 15 22:31:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA03096 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 22:31:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3G1T1X00803; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 19:29:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3G1T0d04658; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 19:29:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d08.mx.aol.com (imo-d08.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.40]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3G1SDd04395 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 19:28:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Azelana@aol.com by imo-d08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 7.37.2600cf9e (3925) for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 21:28:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Azelana@aol.com Message-ID: <37.2600cf9e.29ecd820@aol.com> To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 124 Subject: [h-cost] Costume Symposium Pics Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 21:28:00 EDT Status: RO Thanks for the pics link, Linda! What culture and time period was this costume from? http://www.geocities.com/mr_mcclane/costume/00kwcsA14.jpeg --Gillian _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 15 23:20:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA03257 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 23:20:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3G2I8X03380; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 20:18:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3G2I0d19389; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 20:18:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r04.mx.aol.com (imo-r04.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.100]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3G2HEd19165 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 20:17:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Azelana@aol.com by imo-r04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 7.c8.256697e7 (3925) for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 22:16:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Azelana@aol.com Message-ID: To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 124 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Elizabethan corsets Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 22:16:50 EDT Status: RO << Are the straps on your "corset" or on the bodice of your gown?>> Straps are on the corset, while gown bodice is the same but with the armseye-to-strap area filled in by widening the straps. <> Well, if I didn't adjust myself for cleavage, the shape my corset -- which you're right, was called a "pair of bodies" -- would be what you see in paintings. The cleavage is one modernism I allow myself, because it's difficult to look sexy all covered up with a partlet and ruffs. I don't overdo it, however. (I can't really, cuz I'm small.) I have seen some outright indecent displays, though, so I know the feeling... As for boning, yes, bundled rushes could be used. I've also read about willow being cut while green and halved lengthwise, then left for a few months to season. On rare occasions, the upper class used whalebone. I use the white-painted steel, because it holds up in the wash and lies very flat. You do have to use SOME boning in the outer gown even if you have a corset underneath -- especially in the Center Front, to keep the point down, and along the back lacing holes to keep them from wrinkling -- but you can use less to save money. This is assuming a woman of social standing, like my own persona. The lower classes did indeed often do without boning. --Gillian _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 15 23:25:16 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA03280 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 23:25:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3G2N1X03580; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 20:23:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3G2N0d20801; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 20:23:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r07.mx.aol.com (imo-r07.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.103]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3G2Mnd20756 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 20:22:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Azelana@aol.com by imo-r07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 7.3b.2537d6af (3925) for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 22:22:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Azelana@aol.com Message-ID: <3b.2537d6af.29ece4ed@aol.com> To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 124 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Pelican-type bodice Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 22:22:37 EDT Status: RO << This type of bodice could have been laced, or possibly hooked, at the side back seams. Have a look at "Patterns of Fashion" on page 103. That way the front decoration would not be compromised.>> Don't have that book just yet, but my bodice does not have side back seams. My original pattern was to lace up Center Back, but I couldn't make out any lacing whatsoever in the painting I saw. Granted, it's a scene of many people gathering outside before a grand feast, so the people are small and the painter might simply have left out such details. <> Glad you liked it, Deb! --Gillian _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 15 23:29:16 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA03290 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 23:29:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3G2R6X03829; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 20:27:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3G2R6d22035; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 20:27:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com (imo-d06.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.38]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3G2QPd21774 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 20:26:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Azelana@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 7.a2.240c32fa (3925) for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 22:25:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Azelana@aol.com Message-ID: To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 124 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Sitting in bustles or farthingales Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 22:25:55 EDT Status: RO << I started thinking about bustles and how a lady could sit comfortably while wearing one. I'm also wondering how one could sit and then stand back up and have your bustle be in place. I looked online to see if there was much information about the construction and wearing of a bustle, but did not have much luck. Doeas anyone have any first hand experience in creating and wearing a bustle? Or any good websites to which you could point me?>> Don't know about bustles, but I'm having the same problem with my farthigale. I really can't figure out how to sit in it. "At the very edge of the seat" is the only advice I can give. --Gillian _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 15 23:54:16 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA03361 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 23:54:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3G2q2X05316; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 20:52:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3G2q1d29287; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 20:52:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from red2.netwurx.net (red2.netwurx.net [209.242.224.42]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g3G2pmd29189 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 20:51:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 11811 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2002 02:51:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO faucet.net) (209.242.235.236) by red2.netwurx.net with SMTP; 16 Apr 2002 02:51:46 -0000 Message-ID: <3CBB91A9.C767FC06@faucet.net> From: Melanie Schuessler X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: impossible sleeves + new question References: <5f.25c94ba5.29ea5aad@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 21:51:21 -0500 Status: RO Azelana@aol.com wrote: > > Looking at at painting c. 1570 London (unnamed artist), courtesy of "What > Life Was Like in the Realm of Elizabeth" by Time/Life... The dresses in this > painting have those same rolls half-off the shoulder. 2 ladies have their > backs to us, showing a straight horizontal neckline line that is simply > higher (a hand's width maybe?) than the bustline in the front -- no V's. > This is a relief, seeing as how that's what I did on the dress I'm making. I > cannot make out any lacing up the back, however... Should my dress be > opening up the front instead?<...> > Could it be that these dresses opened in front with hooks and eyes instead? > The trim pattern could support such an idea... The straight-across-the-back bodice can support straps to which the shoulder rolls are attached (and the rolls generally hide the straps completely). Mine are constructed this way, and with the strap tension adjusted, one gets the proper slant on the rolls (http://www.faucet.net/costume/period/blue.html) I tend to hook-and-eye mine down the front between the guards (http://www.faucet.net/costume/period/red.html and http://www.faucet.net/costume/period/velvet.html are both fastened this way) There is evidence for front openings in the portrait of an unknown girl from 1569, which is fig. 74 in _A Visual History of Costume: The Sixteenth Century_ by Ashelford and fig. 174 in _Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd_ by Janet Arnold. If anyone knows of a copy of this online, I'd love to know where to find it. All the best, Melanie Schuessler _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 16 00:12:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA03442 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 00:12:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3G3A1X06444; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 21:10:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3G3A0d04620; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 21:10:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3G39jd04518 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 21:09:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA09652 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 23:29:48 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Symposium Pics In-Reply-To: <37.2600cf9e.29ecd820@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 23:29:48 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Mon, 15 Apr 2002 Azelana@aol.com wrote: > Thanks for the pics link, Linda! What culture and time period was > this costume from? > > http://www.geocities.com/mr_mcclane/costume/00kwcsA14.jpeg I just sent an email to the photographer to ask him. I know he has notes, because I was his notetaker during that photo session, but I can't promise he'll be able to put his hands on them! And I don't remember the details myself. (If you had posted this a day earlier, I could have asked him in person, as he just spent the weekend visiting here. He takes great pictures of my kids, but I rarely get around to having him take photos of my costumes.) --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 16 00:55:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA03576 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 00:55:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3G3r3X08967; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 21:53:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3G3r1d17300; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 21:53:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc54.attbi.com (rwcrmhc54.attbi.com [216.148.227.87]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3G3qMd17140 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 21:52:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default.attbi.com ([24.245.40.181]) by rwcrmhc54.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020416035216.YBBL15826.rwcrmhc54.attbi.com@default.attbi.com> for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 03:52:16 +0000 Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20020415225124.00a8f240@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: dannw@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Sitting in bustles or farthingales In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g3G3qMd17140 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 22:54:57 -0500 Status: RO At 10:25 PM 4/15/2002 -0400, you wrote: >Don't know about bustles, but I'm having the same problem with my farthigale. > I really can't figure out how to sit in it. "At the very edge of the seat" >is the only advice I can give. > >--Gillian Fabritio Caroso in his Renaissance dance manual "Nobiltà de dame" explains how to sit in a farthingale, with a train, etc... and is available from Dover for $14.95. http://store.doverpublications.com/0486286193.html Cheers, Danielle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 16 01:06:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA03614 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 01:06:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3G440X09585; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 22:04:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3G440d20361; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 22:04:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (rwcrmhc52.attbi.com [216.148.227.88]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3G43Bd20179 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 22:03:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default.attbi.com ([24.245.40.181]) by rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020416040306.FKXD1901.rwcrmhc52.attbi.com@default.attbi.com> for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 04:03:06 +0000 Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20020415225526.00a8cb50@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: dannw@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Symposium Pics In-Reply-To: <37.2600cf9e.29ecd820@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 22:57:00 -0500 Status: RO At 09:28 PM 4/15/2002 -0400, you wrote: >Thanks for the pics link, Linda! What culture and time period was this >costume from? > >http://www.geocities.com/mr_mcclane/costume/00kwcsA14.jpeg > >--Gillian It's Mongolian. When exactly I'm not sure. I thought Grace Morris (who made and is wearing the outfit) was on this list... Cheers, Danielle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 16 02:14:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA25018 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 02:14:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3G5C4X12468; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 23:12:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3G5C2d08410; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 23:12:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m04.mx.aol.com (imo-m04.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.7]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3G5BHd08227 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 23:11:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Osmondia@aol.com by imo-m04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.149.cf5b8f9 (4411) for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 01:11:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Osmondia@aol.com Message-ID: <149.cf5b8f9.29ed0c6b@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Symposium Pics To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 118 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 01:11:07 EDT Status: RO I found the costumers website. This was a masquearde costume depicting an Amazon Queen. Osmondia _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 16 06:12:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA32501 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 06:12:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3G9A5X20440; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 03:10:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3G9A1d00702; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 03:10:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3G99td00671 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 03:09:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KGMLWBOI0G00OKWZ@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 10:12:37 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk ([158.94.56.3]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KGMLW7SBDC011EUT@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 10:12:32 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 16 Apr 2002 10:08:55 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 16 Apr 2002 10:07:57 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.75) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 10:07:48 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sitting in a Bustle? In-reply-to: <200204151633.g3FGXNd10854@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <99C40436F87@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 10:07:48 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > U think there are photos of us sitting in the falkenstein section of > www.myphotos.org.uk What a *lovely* yellow and green gown.... Beautiful style *and* the best colour combination that ever there was. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 16 06:52:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA32727 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 06:52:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3G9oFX21356; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 03:50:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3G9o1d20007; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 03:50:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3G9nOd19907 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 03:49:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from melaniew (213-78-66-56.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.66.56]) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AFN53526; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 10:47:51 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <00bf01c1e52c$67eea7a0$38424ed5@melaniew> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sitting in a Bustle? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 10:52:21 +0100 Status: RO >What a *lovely* yellow and green gown.... Beautiful style *and* the best colour combination that ever there was Why thank you :) Gareth calls it my Snow White outfit ?! Mel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 16 09:42:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA01033 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 09:42:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3GCdrX26146; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 06:39:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3GCdpd24991; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 06:39:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [195.194.177.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3GCShd22286 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 06:28:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from csv6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA27483.; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 13:36:49 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by csv6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 13:28:11 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.1 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Frontier House is coming Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g3GCShd22286 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 13:27:57 +0100 Status: RO Ron Carnegie wrote: > I do not know for sure about "Frontier House", but this was the very >premise of "Victorian House". Not to dertermine if life was more difficult >than today, but to see how somebody from the present thrown into the >situation would respond. They are really more socialogical experiments >than historic reenactments. If you mean "1900 House", I agree and made the same point in an earlier discussion. The point of the series was to see how "ordinary" modern people coped, not to watch expert reenactors. I read at the weekend that here in the UK we are shortly to have a new series representing an Edwardian country house, complete with servants. I wonder if we will eventually get to see the US "Frontier House" as well! Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 16 19:20:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04865 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 19:20:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3GMI7X27620; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 16:18:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3GMHoN12569; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 16:17:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3GELVd28410 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 08:21:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KGMWSDDD9C015D0N@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 15:24:02 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk ([158.94.56.3]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KGMWSCEHS0011IWL@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 15:23:58 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 16 Apr 2002 15:20:20 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 16 Apr 2002 15:19:56 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.75) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 15:19:52 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Symposium Pics In-reply-to: <200204161250.g3GCo4d27757@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <9A1737A7669@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 15:19:52 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > Thanks for the pics link, Linda! What culture and time period was > this costume from? > > http://www.geocities.com/mr_mcclane/costume/00kwcsA14.jpeg Looks kinda Mongol to me..... but my researches intot hat style are minimal. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 16 19:21:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04873 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 19:21:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3GMJXX27729; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 16:19:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3GMJVN13442; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 16:19:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3GESOd01464 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 08:28:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KGMX11VP0000Z350@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 15:31:00 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk ([158.94.56.3]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KGMX0WO7IE011STB@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 15:30:53 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 16 Apr 2002 15:27:15 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 16 Apr 2002 15:27:09 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.75) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 15:27:03 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sitting in a Bustle? In-reply-to: <200204161250.g3GCo4d27757@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <9A1924B7874@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 15:27:03 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > Why thank you :) > > Gareth calls it my Snow White outfit ?! Really? Snow White didn't spring to mind when I looked at it (the lovely shape of the green and the way the bodice-skirts sit so nicely over the main skirts did) Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 16 19:21:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04878 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 19:21:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3GMJfX27760; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 16:19:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3GMJfN13510; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 16:19:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from relay1.primushost.com (poseidon.shore.net [207.244.124.88]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3GGXRN09692 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 10:33:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from (shell3.shore.net) [207.244.124.103] (exim) by relay1.primushost.com with esmtp (Exim) id 16xVsh-0007I7-00; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 12:32:35 -0400 Received: from vintage by shell3.shore.net with local (Exim) for h-costume@indra.com id 16xVsg-00069Q-00; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 12:32:34 -0400 From: Katy Bishop To: historic costume Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] Richmond VA Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 12:32:34 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I am going to be in Richmond VA on Friday and Saturday (April 19-20). does anyone have any recommendations for what to see? I know of the Valentine Museum, but have never been there, any good costume exhibits, fabric stores, vintage stores? Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 16 19:25:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04902 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 19:25:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3GMNSX28406; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 16:23:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3GMNRN15649; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 16:23:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from deathrow.mail.pas.earthlink.net (deathrow.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.19]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3GIGKN18920 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 12:16:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.50] helo=avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net) by deathrow.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16xVel-0005jm-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 09:18:11 -0700 Received: from pool0291.cvx25-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.217.36]) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16xVeN-0000B3-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 09:17:48 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: lilinah@mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: To: h-costume@indra.com From: lilinah@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan corsets Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 09:17:51 -0700 Status: RO Gillian answered my questions: > > Are the straps on your "corset" or on the bodice of your gown? > >Straps are on the corset, while gown bodice is the same but with the >armseye-to-strap area filled in by widening the straps. There certainly were straps on "corsets" later, but whether there were during the Elizabethan period is debated. I haven't studied the evidence very well, so i'm not weighing in. Just mentioning it. Perhaps someone on list has done more in-depth research than i have... >Well, if I didn't adjust myself for cleavage, the shape my corset -- which >you're right, was called a "pair of bodies" -- would be what you see in >paintings. The cleavage is one modernism I allow myself, because it's >difficult to look sexy all covered up with a partlet and ruffs. And you want to meet a 20th/21st century idea of sexy, rather than an Elizabethan idea of sexy because...? >As for boning, yes, bundled rushes could be used. I've also read about >willow being cut while green and halved lengthwise, then left for a few >months to season. On rare occasions, the upper class used whalebone. Which would be illegal most places these days :-) >I use >the white-painted steel, because it holds up in the wash and lies very flat. So do i. >You do have to use SOME boning in the outer gown even if you have a corset >underneath -- especially in the Center Front, to keep the point down, and >along the back lacing holes to keep them from wrinkling -- but you can use >less to save money. This is assuming a woman of social standing, like my own >persona. The lower classes did indeed often do without boning. Since you are apparently quite small, you wouldn't need as much boning as someone who is larger. I absolutely agree about having some sort of stays along "open" edges, where a garment laces or hooks. In my most recent outfit, i experimented (unsuccessfully) with hook and eye tape thus: My outer bodices are fully lined, as well as stiffly interfaced and boned. I put the hook-and-eye tape on the lining on the outer side, not the inside where i wouldn't be able to see it. Then fastened the outer velvet layer provisionally with "pearl" headed straight pins, intending to put in more permanent fastenings once i saw the result of the experiment. The hook-and-eye tape was just not practical (i used a commercial kind made for bras and other undergarments). The hooks-and-eyes were just too close together, and, well, i just couldn't see over my balcony to fasten them. I wore the bodice that way for one Ren Fair (2 months of weekends), having to ask for assistance everyday, which i don't like to do, but have since removed it. I've taken a bit of a fancy to fastening the outer layer with the pins, but i don't know if this is historically accurate. Comments, anyone? Because i lack servants :-) my previous outfit laced up the front and had false lacings in both back semi-side seams. I attached a (i forget the name) triangular piece of fabric over the lacings in the front to hide them, fastening it on both sides with hand-sewn hooks-and-eyes. This wasn't meant to be historically accurate, but sometimes one has to make compromises in these sorts of theatrical situations without dressers. Anahita / Modesty / Philomel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 16 19:25:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04906 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 19:25:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3GMNlX28486; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 16:23:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3GMNkN15870; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 16:23:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp1.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net (smtp1.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net [206.210.69.141]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g3GJfvN09567 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 13:41:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 5487 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2002 19:41:55 -0000 Received: from pm3frd1-68-98.intrepid.net (HELO sue) (206.102.68.98) by smtp1.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net with SMTP; 16 Apr 2002 19:41:55 -0000 Message-ID: <001701c1e57e$7a8bb220$bc76fea9@stargate.net> From: "Sue" To: References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020416015745.00a03170@mail.bigpond.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Riding habits & side-saddles MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 15:39:51 -0400 Status: RO I have a side saddle riding skirt from Edwardian period. It has 2 different "pockets" in the front for both knees to fit in. It is on my website. Cordially, Sue Shatto 401 Fairview Ave. Frederick, MD 21701 http://wwwVictorianMillinery.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Threnody" To: Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 12:21 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Riding habits & side-saddles > At 08:53 2002-04-15 -0700, you wrote: > >Can anyone explain to me how one actually sits in a > >side-saddle? I've seen a woman in voluminous skirts > >on a side-saddle, but you couldn't see how she was > >actually sitting. I've seen a side-saddle up close, > >sans rider. I'm very puzzled! If that oddly-placed > >horn was between your thighs somehow, you'd fall right > >off. > > > >Joan Hall/Iohanna the Harper > > > Modern side saddle habits have the back part of the skirt cut away, they > look a little like an apron with a "bum cover". (My mother used to ride > side saddle a lot.) When you're on the horse, you can't really tell that > it's just a "bum cover". And you wear breeches underneath, of course. :) > Sometimes a split skirt is worn. Period habits, I'm not sure exactly, but I > believe mostly you just arranged your skirts so that the larger bunches of > material were towards the front. Your right leg hooks over the upper horn, > and your left leg sits under the lower one (it's not supposed to actually > press up against it during ordinary riding) and rests in the stirrup; you > sit facing the front. > > Generally pre 1600 or so, the lady actually did sit sideways on the horse > on a saddle that was more like a platform and sometimes had a footrest, and > I think it was the early 1600s (quite possibly earlier, I'm not 100% sure) > that the horned saddle came into use and ladies could sit facing the front. > A second horn was added in the early 1830s to help with stability when jumping. > > There are patterns and drawings of modern and period habits here: > http://users.tinyworld.co.uk/sidesaddlelady/Catalogue%20-%20dressmaking%20pa tterns.html > > My mother riding sidesaddle in a modern formal habit: > http://www.threnody.org/misc/sidesaddle01.jpg > > - Sonia > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 16 19:28:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04921 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 19:28:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3GMPXX28773; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 16:25:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3GMPWN16942; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 16:25:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from out004.verizon.net (out004slb.verizon.net [206.46.170.16] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3GLr5N29018 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 15:53:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default ([151.199.133.3]) by out004.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with SMTP id <20020416215315.QYGY21225.out004.verizon.net@default> for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 16:53:15 -0500 Message-Id: <2.2.32.20020416215316.00716b7c@mail.verizon.net> X-Sender: vze2brpf@mail.verizon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Ron Carnegie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Frontier House is coming Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 17:53:16 -0400 Status: RO At 01:27 PM 4/16/02 +0100, you wrote: >Ron Carnegie wrote: > >> I do not know for sure about "Frontier House", but this was the very >>premise of "Victorian House". Not to dertermine if life was more difficult >>than today, but to see how somebody from the present thrown into the >>situation would respond. They are really more socialogical experiments >than historic reenactments. > >If you mean "1900 House", I agree and made the same point in an earlier discussion. The point of the series was to see how "ordinary" modern people coped, not to watch expert reenactors. >I read at the weekend that here in the UK we are shortly to have a new series representing an Edwardian country house, complete with servants. I wonder if we will eventually get to see the US "Frontier House" as well! > > >Kate Bunting >Library, University of Derby Yes 1900 house is what I meant. In fact I think it was your earlier post that i had learned this from. Also when I read an email looking for applications for the new American one. Not sure which list that was forwarded to. Cheers, Ron Carnegie r.carnegie@verizon.net ************************************************* "The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground walked other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow." G.M. Trevelyan ************************************************* _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 16 19:28:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04923 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 19:28:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3GMPOX28742; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 16:25:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3GMPON16862; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 16:25:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.ala.net (mail.ala.net [204.251.239.243]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g3GLYMN18617 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 15:34:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 28683 invoked by uid 0); 16 Apr 2002 18:52:01 -0000 Received: from 208-128-166-21.ala.net (HELO jchancey) (208.128.166.21) by mail.ala.net with SMTP; 16 Apr 2002 18:52:01 -0000 Message-ID: <004801c1e567$377fd040$62affea9@jchancey> From: "Jennie Chancey" To: References: <200203071434.g27EY9J26898@net.indra.com> <3C877190.17697.DCA86E9@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [h-cost] Young Designers Contest Open for Entries! Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 13:53:20 -0300 Status: RO I totally forgot to mention this in February when I got my rules page up, but the Young Designers Historical Pattern Contest is at last open for entries. You can get all the details at http://www.sensibility.com/ydcontest.htm. We have three excellent judges who will remain secret until the finalists are announced! :-) Cheers, Jennie Chancey - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Sense and Sensibility Clothing and Patterns http://www.sensibility.com winsome clothing with an old-fashioned appeal _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 16 20:13:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA05115 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 20:13:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3GNB2X03069; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 17:11:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3GNB1N10225; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 17:11:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m2.jersey.juno.com (m2.jersey.juno.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3GNAuN10183 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 17:10:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCoXFQJwRiFSCxFDEqRWMgPhv/T+Pj9mBVg=="> Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.jersey.juno.com (jqueuemail) id GYJ7TBUP; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 19:09:13 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan corsets Message-ID: <20020416.180948.-205805.1.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-13,30-35 From: seamstrix@juno.com Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 18:09:47 -0500 Status: RO On Tue, 16 Apr 2002 09:17:51 -0700 lilinah@earthlink.net writes: > Gillian answered my questions: > > > Are the straps on your "corset" or on the bodice of your gown? > > > >Straps are on the corset, while gown bodice is the same but with > the armseye-to-strap area filled in by widening the straps. > > There certainly were straps on "corsets" later, but whether there > were during the Elizabethan period is debated. I haven't studied the > evidence very well, so i'm not weighing in. Just mentioning it. > Perhaps someone on list has done more in-depth research than i > have... Actually the debate should be whether any corsets DIDN'T have straps as the only two extant corsets from the period (that I'm aware of) both HAVE straps. As far as I can tell the strapless Elizabethan corset is a Faire-ism that I suspect developed when the first pioneer Neo-Elizabethans were trying to figure out how everything worked. Perhaps the strapless variety were easier to make unobtrusive under the wide necklines with minimal straps that one sees on the period bodices before re-enactor design and tailoring skills improved. In any case, there's no period precedent for a strapless corset and from my own experience the ones with straps are more comfy at the end of a long hot day at the Faire. Although I am reasonably well endowed (38D), I never haul the girls up to the heights that I see some folks do because it ruins the lines of my dresses and the girls get a bit cranky after a long, hot day of being hoisted up into an unnatural position. Of course having them mushed too far down isn't good either, there's a nice 'slightly elevated and rounded at the top' position that is both comfortable and looks right with the dresses. just a groats worth, Karen ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 16 22:00:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA05551 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 22:00:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3H0w5X10378; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 18:58:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3H0w1N19227; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 18:58:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g390cf214795 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 18:38:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g390clc29356 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 20:38:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA04642 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 2002 20:42:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] Drea's email change Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 20:42:43 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO guys, I'm still off for the nonce, but hope to have the time to get back on soon. :) In the meantime, my email has changed: drea@nospam dnaco will soon be going away. Thanks, Drea _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 16 22:00:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA05552 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 22:00:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3H0wIX10391; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 18:58:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3H0wIN19326; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 18:58:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web14605.mail.yahoo.com (web14605.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.224.85]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g3C4cOe03795 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 22:38:25 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020412043824.21150.qmail@web14605.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.129.28.94] by web14605.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:38:24 PDT From: Heidi Fox To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Phoenix Textiles Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:38:24 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO Hi all, I thought someone might be interested in two lovely fabrics at Phoenix Textiles. I wish I could afford to buy a little (or a lot), but I can live vicariously through some other fabric fiend. Check out the Grover Latte and the Grover Wine...the close-up is great. http://store.yahoo.com/phoenixtextiles/chenup.html Heidi __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 17 00:14:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA06016 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 00:14:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3H3C2X17338; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 21:12:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3H3C0N29383; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 21:12:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r04.mx.aol.com (imo-r04.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.100]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3H3BSN29244 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 21:11:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-r04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.11b.f3228d2 (4187) for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 23:11:14 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <11b.f3228d2.29ee41d2@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Richmond VA To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_11b.f3228d2.29ee41d2_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10034 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 23:11:14 EDT Status: RO --part1_11b.f3228d2.29ee41d2_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was in Richmond just a couple of weeks ago. The Valentine Museum has a great exhibit up right now featuring clothes from the department stores that used to be in the area. I also found the Silk Trading Company, at 304 E. Grace, right near the convention center. There are some great and hard to find fabrics-- silks, wools, and linens, among others--and the prices are good, if not tremendous bargains. Enjoy! Ann Wass annbwass@aol.com --part1_11b.f3228d2.29ee41d2_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was in Richmond just a couple of weeks ago.  The Valentine Museum has a great exhibit up right now featuring clothes from the department stores that used to be in the area.
I also found the Silk Trading Company, at 304 E. Grace, right near the convention center.  There are some great and hard to find fabrics-- silks, wools, and linens, among others--and the prices are good, if not tremendous bargains.
Enjoy!
Ann Wass
annbwass@aol.com --part1_11b.f3228d2.29ee41d2_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 17 00:43:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA06170 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 00:43:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3H3f1X18862; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 21:41:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3H3f1N07513; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 21:41:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f192.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.192]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3H3etN07483 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 21:40:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 20:40:50 -0700 Received: from 65.67.61.212 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 03:40:49 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.67.61.212] From: "Mary Temple" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Apr 2002 03:40:50.0093 (UTC) FILETIME=[AAD9BDD0:01C1E5C1] Subject: [h-cost] 1400's Danish? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 03:40:49 Status: RO A friend of mine is searching for information on 1400's men's Danish clothing. Could someone please give me some leads? Thanks, Mary/Katerine _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 17 01:40:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA06315 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 01:40:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3H4c1X21958; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 22:38:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3H4c0N23240; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 22:38:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc54.attbi.com (rwcrmhc54.attbi.com [216.148.227.87]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3H4brN23212 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 22:37:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default.attbi.com ([24.245.40.181]) by rwcrmhc54.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020417043748.MRWT15826.rwcrmhc54.attbi.com@default.attbi.com> for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 04:37:48 +0000 Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20020416231539.02ada330@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: dannw@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Symposium Pics In-Reply-To: <149.cf5b8f9.29ed0c6b@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 23:41:04 -0500 Status: RO Greetings, I think you are confusing Grace's Mongolian: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Square/5460/costume/00kwcsA14.jpeg with Drea's Penthesilea: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Square/5460/costume/00kwcsB22.jpeg Here is article on it: http://www.dnaco.net/~aleed/corsets/wardrobe/masque.html Cheers, Danielle At 01:11 AM 4/16/2002 -0400, you wrote: >I found the costumers website. >This was a masquearde costume depicting an Amazon Queen. > >Osmondia _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 17 01:52:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA06359 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 01:52:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3H4o0X22440; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 22:50:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3H4o0N26147; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 22:50:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3H4n0N25938 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 22:49:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ap-004watacop0994.dialsprint.net ([63.187.227.232] helo=laptop) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16xhNL-0000Cw-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 21:48:59 -0700 From: "Saragrace knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Riding habits & side-saddles Organization: PII Message-ID: <001e01c1e5ca$210dedc0$d3cbbb3f@laptop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-reply-to: <001701c1e57e$7a8bb220$bc76fea9@stargate.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 21:41:22 -0700 Status: RO My side saddle is from the turn of the century-American. It is referred to as a Mountain Side Saddle. It does not have the leaping horn. I only use mine to do dressage, a very controlled practice. IMHO it is inherently more dangerous to ride side saddle ithan astride (in a skirt especially!), though if that were all you did you'd probably get very proficient at it. The discussions I have always been involved in, always were along the line of "if you can do that side saddle, you are really good!". I don't know very many people that ride routinely sidesaddle. You see it here and there in shows, but riding in an arena is a much more controlled environment than out on a hunt for instance. All the riding habits I have seen are full skirted. The 'backless' skirt that was referred to in an earlier post I believe was just something to practice in. Somewhere I think I remember reading that up until (relatively) recently, ladies were required to wear skirts while doing the hunt. **-----Original Message----- **From: h-costume-admin@indra.com **[mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of Sue **Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 12:40 PM **To: h-costume@indra.com **Subject: Re: [h-cost] Riding habits & side-saddles ** ** **I have a side saddle riding skirt from Edwardian period. It **has 2 different "pockets" in the front for both knees to fit **in. It is on my website. Cordially, Sue Shatto 401 Fairview **Ave. Frederick, MD 21701 http://wwwVictorianMillinery.com ** **----- Original Message ----- **From: "Threnody" **To: **Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 12:21 PM **Subject: Re: [h-cost] Riding habits & side-saddles ** ** **> At 08:53 2002-04-15 -0700, you wrote: **> >Can anyone explain to me how one actually sits in a side-saddle? **> >I've seen a woman in voluminous skirts on a side-saddle, but you **> >couldn't see how she was actually sitting. I've seen a **side-saddle **> >up close, sans rider. I'm very puzzled! If that oddly-placed **> >horn was between your thighs somehow, you'd fall right **> >off. **> > **> >Joan Hall/Iohanna the Harper **> **> **> Modern side saddle habits have the back part of the skirt cut away, **> they look a little like an apron with a "bum cover". (My **mother used **> to ride side saddle a lot.) When you're on the horse, you **can't really **> tell that it's just a "bum cover". And you wear breeches **underneath, **> of course. :) Sometimes a split skirt is worn. Period **habits, I'm not **> sure exactly, but **I **> believe mostly you just arranged your skirts so that the larger **> bunches of material were towards the front. Your right leg **hooks over **> the upper horn, and your left leg sits under the lower one **(it's not **> supposed to actually press up against it during ordinary **riding) and **> rests in the stirrup; you sit facing the front. **> **> Generally pre 1600 or so, the lady actually did sit sideways on the **> horse on a saddle that was more like a platform and sometimes had a **> footrest, **and **> I think it was the early 1600s (quite possibly earlier, I'm **not 100% **> sure) that the horned saddle came into use and ladies could **sit facing **> the **front. **> A second horn was added in the early 1830s to help with **stability when **jumping. **> **> There are patterns and drawings of modern and period habits here: **> **http://users.tinyworld.co.uk/sidesaddlelady/Catalogue%20-%20dr **essmaking%20pa **tterns.html **> **> My mother riding sidesaddle in a modern formal habit: **> http://www.threnody.org/misc/sidesaddle01.jpg **> **> - Sonia **> **> _______________________________________________ **> h-costume mailing list **> h-costume@mail.indra.com **> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume **> ** **_______________________________________________ **h-costume mailing list **h-costume@mail.indra.com **http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 17 01:53:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA06363 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 01:53:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3H4p1X22500; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 22:51:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3H4p1N26380; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 22:51:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f169.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.169]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3H4oIN26231 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 22:50:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 21:50:12 -0700 Received: from 68.6.212.114 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 04:50:12 GMT X-Originating-IP: [68.6.212.114] From: "jessica stier" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Apr 2002 04:50:12.0599 (UTC) FILETIME=[5BE5C070:01C1E5CB] Subject: [h-cost] Sitting in a bustle Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 04:50:12 Status: RO Hi Everyone. I just wanted to say how much I've learned from this train of thought. Thank you so much for you comments, pictures and links. I've learned a lot! Thanks for the fun! :) jessica _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 17 02:39:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA01954 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 02:39:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3H5b1X24255; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 23:37:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3H5b0N07658; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 23:37:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3H5awN07648 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 23:36:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (213-78-76-184.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.76.184]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AFM15524; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 06:36:56 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <064901c1e5d2$bfb83d60$325d4ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <9A1924B7874@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sitting in a Bustle? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 06:43:05 +0100 Status: RO >Really? Snow White didn't spring to mind when I looked at it I think it is the sleeve contast to the bodice of something, or maybe he has a Snow White fixation ;) Mel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 17 02:49:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA02015 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 02:49:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3H5l1X24563; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 23:47:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3H5l0N10020; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 23:47:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3H5k8N09852 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 23:46:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (213-78-76-184.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.76.184]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AFM15741; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 06:46:04 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <065201c1e5d4$064817e0$325d4ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <001e01c1e5ca$210dedc0$d3cbbb3f@laptop> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Riding habits & side-saddles MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 06:52:13 +0100 Status: RO >It does not have the leaping horn. I only use mine to do dressage, a very controlled practice. IMHO it is inherently more dangerous to ride side saddle ithan astride (in a skirt especially!), though if that were all you did you'd probably get very proficient at it. Depends on the saddle really, in later saddles you have potentially a much stronger seat, and very little change of comming off once yopu have mastered the scissor grip. I'd rather sit a buck in a side saddle than astride :) A rear however can be lethal. FIRST RULE of aside riding if your horse rears don't do side saddle on it. Having said that I come from slightly mad Quorn country where for generations ladies have hunted hard aside :) >The discussions I have always been involved in, always were along the line of "if you can do that side saddle, you are really good!". I disagree it is just what you are used to. > I don't know very many people that ride routinely sidesaddle. I used to, don't ride much aside or astride at the moment too many kids... But I used to do most things aside, hunt, jump, hack out, Nope can't think of anything I didn't do. You need to do it routinly to be any good , simply because of the muscle build up needed like any sport > You see it here and there in shows, but riding in an arena is a much more controlled environment than out on a hunt for instance. Yeah but so much less fun !! Add a bit of a wild chase, can't be knocked >All the riding habits I have seen are full skirted. The 'backless' skirt that was referred to in an earlier post I believe was just something to practice in. No the Apron is wore on most occasions and gradually came in after its invention for hunting, dressage , hacking out etc etc. Prior to that there were various other safty skirts too. If you do riding in full skirts ALWAYS make fastenings velcro, or by some other method so the rip off you if you take a fall, acuraccy is not worth an acurate head stoving in as you are dragged under the horse IMHO > Somewhere I think I remember reading that up until (relatively) recently, ladies were required to wear skirts while doing the hunt. Depends how recently you mean, certainly in Victorian times yes without a doubt, not that all of them did :) Mel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 17 03:37:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA02194 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 03:37:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3H6Z2X25881; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 00:35:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3H6Z0N19709; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 00:35:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3H6YPN19588 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 00:34:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.32.118]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GUP00DRK8XBKZ@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 23:34:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sitting in a bustle In-reply-to: X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020416231720.0501a3d0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 23:17:41 -0700 Status: RO >I just wanted to say how much I've learned from this train of thought. Train of thought - nice pun. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 17 06:38:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA02871 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 06:38:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3H9a6X01465; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 03:36:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3H9a1N25733; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 03:36:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3H9ZvN25715 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 03:35:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KGO13P5EF4012UJU@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 10:38:28 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk ([158.94.56.3]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KGO13JATAC00WEO0@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 10:38:20 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 17 Apr 2002 10:34:40 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 17 Apr 2002 10:34:17 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.79) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 10:34:16 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sitting in a Bustle? In-reply-to: <200204170538.g3H5c7N07913@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <9B4B1425709@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 10:34:16 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > >Really? Snow White didn't spring to mind when I looked at it > > I think it is the sleeve contast to the bodice of something, or maybe > he has a Snow White fixation ;) Perhaps he could include it in a story-telling if he makes it to another of our events? Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 17 08:10:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA03270 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 08:10:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3HB82X04148; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 05:08:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3HB80N12930; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 05:08:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3HB7lN12878 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 05:07:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from melaniew (213-78-74-98.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.74.98]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AFM33741; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 12:07:42 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <016901c1e600$b8eb4760$a4524ed5@melaniew> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sitting in a Bustle? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 12:12:10 +0100 Status: RO > Perhaps he could include it in a story-telling if he makes it to another of our events? Don't temp him ;0) Mel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 17 09:53:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA03816 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 09:53:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3HCq2X07857; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 06:52:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3HCq0N05002; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 06:52:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fepE.post.tele.dk (fepE.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.137]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3HCpIN04807 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 06:51:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from post12.tele.dk ([195.215.190.23]) by fepE.post.tele.dk (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20020417125116.QNSS26334.fepE.post.tele.dk@post12.tele.dk> for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 14:51:16 +0200 Message-ID: <3CBD6FFE.C6144B36@post12.tele.dk> From: Leif Drews X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1400's Danish? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 14:52:14 +0200 Status: RO Hello. There are very little portraits of danes from this period, but i suggest you could search for books about church mural pictures. We have lots and lots of churches with mural pictures from 13th - 14th. centuries. I wish i could help you some more, but this is a fact, i know cause i am a dane. Bjarne Mary Temple wrote: > A friend of mine is searching for information on 1400's men's Danish > clothing. Could someone please give me some leads? > > Thanks, > > Mary/Katerine > > _________________________________________________________________ > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Leif Drews boulevard 5, 3 th 1635 København V Bjarne Drews boulevard 5,3.th 1635 København V tlf. 35 37 13 70 My new domain name: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk Homepage: http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/~DeeDee_Revia/1index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 17 12:08:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA08740 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 12:08:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3HF66X17835; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 09:06:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3HF64N25395; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 09:06:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3HF5MN25033 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 09:05:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comcast.net (pcp670884pcs.indpnd01.mo.comcast.net [68.34.234.170]) by mtaout03.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built Feb 6 2002)) with ESMTP id <0GUP000JSWKS8J@mtaout03.icomcast.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 11:05:17 -0400 (EDT) From: "Linda J. Thompson" To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <3CBD8FB3.90601@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 References: <200204170538.g3H5c2N07885@net.indra.com> Subject: [h-cost] Elizabethan corsets and those sleeves... Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 10:07:31 -0500 Status: RO I have been following both threads to see what the consensus would be and something occured to me. I also believe corsets back then probably did have straps, since the only ones we have seen had them, we really can't say they didn't unless there is some written description that states otherwise. And I have always wondered how any of the ladies could keep up those heavily ornate sleeves on the edges of their shoulders, without the armscye being extremely tight and something somewhere holding them up. There was mention a couple of years back (can't remember the source on this list)that some bodices never had shoulder straps to begin with, the sleeves were actually sewn to the underarm area, and they were simply designed to cover the top joint of the arm. Now if this is true, then perhaps the way they kept those sleeves up (with the help of a well designed back) would be by pinning the sleeve to the straps of their corset/aka pair of bodies when neccessary? ( Of course this would not be neccessary on the doublet styled bodices of latter Elizabethan) I have made sleeves that once they were embellished with cording and trim, that could weigh in at 2 to 3 lbs. Never have satisfactorially gotten them to stay on a rounded shoulder. Linda Thompson www.seams-to-be.com Attitude is Everything > From: seamstrix@juno.com > Reply-To: h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > On Tue, 16 Apr 2002 09:17:51 -0700 lilinah@earthlink.net writes: > >>Gillian answered my questions: >> >>> > Are the straps on your "corset" or on the bodice of your gown? >>> >>>Straps are on the corset, while gown bodice is the same but with >>> >>the armseye-to-strap area filled in by widening the straps. >> >>There certainly were straps on "corsets" later, but whether there >>were during the Elizabethan period is debated. I haven't studied the >>evidence very well, so i'm not weighing in. Just mentioning it. >>Perhaps someone on list has done more in-depth research than i >>have... >> > > Actually the debate should be whether any corsets DIDN'T have straps as > the only two extant corsets from the period (that I'm aware of) both HAVE > straps. As far as I can tell the strapless Elizabethan corset is a > Faire-ism that I suspect developed when the first pioneer > Neo-Elizabethans were trying to figure out how everything worked. Perhaps > the strapless variety were easier to make unobtrusive under the wide > necklines with minimal straps that one sees on the period bodices before > re-enactor design and tailoring skills improved. In any case, there's no > period precedent for a strapless corset and from my own experience the > ones with straps are more comfy at the end of a long hot day at the > Faire. Although I am reasonably well endowed (38D), I never haul the > girls up to the heights that I see some folks do because it ruins the > lines of my dresses and the girls get a bit cranky after a long, hot day > of being hoisted up into an unnatural position. Of course having them > mushed too far down isn't good either, there's a nice 'slightly elevated > and rounded at the top' position that is both comfortable and looks right > with the dresses. > > > just a groats worth, > > > Karen > -- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 17 13:07:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA09413 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 13:07:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3HG56X25671; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 10:05:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3HG53N00616; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 10:05:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3HG4hN00429 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 10:04:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [136.152.196.11] (as3-4-25.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.11]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.10.2) with ESMTP id g3HG4fr28112 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 09:04:42 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1400's Danish? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 21:14:48 -0700 Status: RO At 3:40 AM -0700 4/17/02, Mary Temple wrote: >A friend of mine is searching for information on 1400's men's Danish >clothing. Could someone please give me some leads? > I don't know how much information is available on regional differences in Scandinavia in that period, but you could do a lot worse than start by looking at the Swedish "Boksten man" outfit, which has been dated variously in the 12-14th centuries (but Margareta Nockert localizes it in the 14th century and she's done the most extensive recent work on it). Nocker's publication on the find also includes a lot of other Scandinavian material from the same general time period (give or take a couple centuries), which may also be useful. Nockert, Margareta. 1997. Bockstensmannen och hans Drakt. Hallands Lansmuseer, Boras. ISBN 9185720-30-5 Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 17 14:24:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA09882 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 14:24:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3HHMCX05842; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 11:22:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3HHM3N16772; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 11:22:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3HHLeN16509 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 11:21:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g3HHLdHh024250 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 13:21:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: Costume List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] Costume books, etc. on Ebay Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 13:21:39 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO One of the ladies on another list is auctioning off some of her costume books: http://cgi6.aol.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid=barbsbit -- Mara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 17 15:18:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA10263 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 15:18:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3HIG1X11808; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 12:16:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3HIG0N20131; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 12:16:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kumc-scanout.kumc.edu (kumc-scanout.kumc.edu [169.147.166.198]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g3HIFtN20059 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 12:15:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: FROM gatedo.kumc.edu BY kumc-scanout.kumc.edu ; Wed Apr 17 13:15:49 2002 -0500 Received: from KUMC-GATEWAY-DOMAIN-Message_Server by gatedo.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 13:15:49 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 5.5.3.1 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g3HIFtN20059 Subject: [h-cost] Riding habits and side-saddles Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 13:15:41 -0500 Status: RO I had an opportunity to learn side-saddle one summer, and then rode same in a parade. I practiced w/ a towel draped over my legs to accustom my appy mare to something flapping around on one side :). I tried both the single (curve-up) horn and double (one up, one down) horn saddles. It was my understanding the double was meant more for hunting and I did find it more secure. I had a problem with one or the other of my legs falling asleep however. When I did the ride in costume it was a full-skirted one and I had no problems mounting, dismounting, or moving around on the horse with a full skirt (altho it was a fairly lt-weight fabric) but I was glad I had had some practice. It has been many years since I researched this but I don't remember finding anything but full-skirted habits. A museum I catalogued costumes for while in college had, what we thought, was a riding habit from the late 1800's and it had a full skirt. Hope this helps, Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 17 15:45:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA10401 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 15:45:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3HIgxX14889; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 12:42:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3HIgvN06159; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 12:42:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3HIg2N05694 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 12:42:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comcast.net (pcp670884pcs.indpnd01.mo.comcast.net [68.34.234.170]) by mtaout02.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built Feb 6 2002)) with ESMTP id <0GUQ0064G6LW58@mtaout02.icomcast.net> for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 14:41:57 -0400 (EDT) From: "Linda J. Thompson" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Message-id: <3CBDC27B.60509@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 Subject: [h-cost] Those white tapes.... Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 13:44:11 -0500 Status: RO I took another look at the few pictures I have seen of those white strap/tape things that you see. Are there any portraits, of women actually dressed up and sitting for a portrait with the tapes in them? So far I have only seen instances where the ladies appear to have been captured in a work or movement style setting (walking, shopping?) I believe that it is 2 narrow sashes of fabric worn specifically to aid in holding up heavy skirts when walking around. In the Holbein picture of "An English Lady Walking", it appears the sash could be attached to a layer of voluminous skirts in the back, then comes up the sides from the back around the front of the shoulder. It could then come over the back, cross over each other and come around the front clipping to the front of the skirt to keep it above the streets. The reason I think it is attached someway in the back of the skirt is the way the fabric falls at her side. It has a large volumn of fabric folded and bunched over itself. All that fabric at her side appears to be coming from back to front. I used this method with one long cord once to hold a pole to someones back for a body puppet. -- Linda Thompson Visit www.seams-to-be.com where Attitude is Everything _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 17 15:58:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA10441 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 15:58:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3HIv2X16206; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 12:57:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3HIv0N14230; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 12:57:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fepC.post.tele.dk (fepC.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.147]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3HIu5N13733 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 12:56:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from post12.tele.dk ([62.243.47.111]) by fepC.post.tele.dk (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20020417185603.MEAS22769.fepC.post.tele.dk@post12.tele.dk> for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 20:56:03 +0200 Message-ID: <3CBDC57C.D4677AA4@post12.tele.dk> From: Leif Drews X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] fitting Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 20:57:00 +0200 Status: RO Hi. Boy am i in troubble. I have tryed to make a muslin model of my embroidered suit, and i cant se how it fits in the back. I dont know any body who i would trust to fit it for me, so i guess i have to look for some professional halp. I know a lady nearby my work, who makes dresses for ladies and alterrations and such, do you think i could have her to help me? If i pay her off cause. Yes, the embroidery really soon is done, i need to make the back vents and the cuffs, and therefore my back sides must be absolutely in the right shape. I have scanned some photos of the waistcoat embroidery to match the jacket, and if some of you would like to se, i could post! Bjarne -- Leif Drews boulevard 5, 3 th 1635 København V Bjarne Drews boulevard 5,3.th 1635 København V tlf. 35 37 13 70 My new domain name: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk Homepage: http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/~DeeDee_Revia/1index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 17 16:07:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA10490 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 16:07:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3HJ57X17126; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 13:05:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3HJ51N18711; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 13:05:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r07.mx.aol.com (imo-r07.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.103]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3HJ4LN18278 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 13:04:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LalahTT@aol.com by imo-r07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.3c.1cd88cb2 (16932) for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 15:04:12 -0400 (EDT) From: LalahTT@aol.com Message-ID: <3c.1cd88cb2.29ef212c@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] fitting To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_3c.1cd88cb2.29ef212c_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10560 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 15:04:12 EDT Status: RO --part1_3c.1cd88cb2.29ef212c_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bjarne, for the amount of work you are putting into that embroidery, it would be a crying shame if it didn't fit perfectly. If you don't have a friend you would trust to fit the muslin, by all means pay a professional to do it. It can't possibly cost enough to take a chance on ruining all your beautiful work. And, of course we want to see pictures of anything you do! Lalah Never Give up, Never Surrender, - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Looking for a great gift? Check out Beary Classy Bears at http://hometown.aol.com/bearyclassybears/myhomepage/sale.html --part1_3c.1cd88cb2.29ef212c_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bjarne, for the amount of work you are putting into that embroidery, it would be a crying shame if it didn't fit perfectly.  If you don't have a friend you would trust to fit the muslin, by all means pay a professional to do it.  It can't possibly cost enough to take a chance on ruining all your beautiful work.  And, of course we want to see pictures of anything you do!

Lalah
Never Give up, Never Surrender,
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Looking for a great gift?  Check out Beary Classy Bears at
http://hometown.aol.com/bearyclassybears/myhomepage/sale.html

--part1_3c.1cd88cb2.29ef212c_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 17 16:33:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA10625 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 16:33:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3HJV5X20352; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 13:31:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3HJV1N04144; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 13:31:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3HJUdN03939 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 13:30:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gonzo.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.242] helo=gonzo.psp.pas.earthlink.net) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16xv8Y-0003y6-00 for h-costume@net.indra.com; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 12:30:38 -0700 Received: (from nobody@localhost) by gonzo.psp.pas.earthlink.net (8.10.2+Sun/8.10.2) id g3HJUbh03388 for h-costume@net.indra.com; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 12:30:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Goodman To: h-costume@net.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Those white tapes.... Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: 156.41.168.21 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: lithiate@earthlink.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 12:30:37 -0700 Status: RO Hi Linda, That theory has been brought up before and I must say that I thought this was the case as well, until I looked good and hard at the Holbein sketch and decided that the straps around the shoulders and the strap holding up the front of the skirt aren't the same thing. Numerous other people have reached this conclusion also. There are several portraits of wealthy and upper class women wearing the shoulder straps, but alas, they are all 3/4 or 1/2 length, and usually hidden by enormous sleeves. http://www.abcgallery.com/H/holbein/holbein21.html http://www.marquise.de/1500/pics/1530_2.shtml http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/boleyn1525.jpg http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/dauncey.jpg http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/cecilia.jpg (this is interesting because the straps appear to terminate a little above waist level) http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/henegham.jpg http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/holb5.jpg (there are what appear to be two pins in this sketch that are holding the straps to the bodice. One at the neckline leve and one at the end of the strap) http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/moregirls.jpg http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/roper.jpg http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/margaret.jpg (wide straps) http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/english.jpg (the Holbein you mentioned) http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/backsketch.jpg (the other Holbein sketch that gets refered to quite a bit. I'm inclined to believe that the thick bands at the back that form a "V" are probably the shoulder straps viewed from behind) Now, as far as I've ever been able to tell, English women are the only ones who are depicted wearing these straps. I'd love to hear if anyone else has a lead on women from other countries sporting the straps. Also, they are around for a very short space of time, from the 1520's the early 1540's if the portraits are to be believed as dated accuritely. I've heard the argument that these might be devotional based upon the number of catholic ladies wearing them, which is an interesting theory. I'm not sure I agree with it, though. My own theory that is beginning to form is that they are there to keep the shoulders of the bodice on the body... But that's certainly up for debate. Any thoughts? Sarah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 17 16:35:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA10631 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 16:34:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3HJW0X20473; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 13:32:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3HJW0N04773; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 13:32:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fepA.post.tele.dk (fepA.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.143]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3HJV0N04130 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 13:31:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from post12.tele.dk ([62.243.47.111]) by fepA.post.tele.dk (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20020417193059.WVOE1822.fepA.post.tele.dk@post12.tele.dk> for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 21:30:59 +0200 Message-ID: <3CBDCDAC.1D2D2E07@post12.tele.dk> From: Leif Drews X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] waistcoatembroidery. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 21:31:56 +0200 Status: RO Hi Here, as promised the embroidery for the waistcoat at: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/weeklycostume.htm It is the cream silk with a wreath of blue forgetmenots. The green balls i have made green because it is the colour of the jacket. I have some other better real photos but you have to wait a little, the film is in the camera, i have taken photos of the embroidery while at the frame and up close to the jacket it is going to match.... Bjarne Leif Drews boulevard 5, 3 th 1635 København V Bjarne Drews boulevard 5,3.th 1635 København V tlf. 35 37 13 70 My new domain name: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk Homepage: http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/~DeeDee_Revia/1index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 17 17:17:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA11020 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 17:17:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3HKF3X25942; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 14:15:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3HKF1N01310; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 14:15:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3HKEkN01135 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 14:14:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.34.187]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GUQ001PZAWKE2@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 13:14:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Those white tapes.... In-reply-to: <3CBDC27B.60509@comcast.net> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020417130036.0505ed50@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 13:02:01 -0700 Status: RO >I took another look at the few pictures I have seen of those white >strap/tape things that you see. Are there any portraits, of women >actually dressed up and sitting for a portrait with the tapes in them? Yes. When I find Davenport's book (in all this mess around here) I will give name and page number. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 17 17:18:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA11027 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 17:18:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3HKFNX26017; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 14:15:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3HKFMN01558; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 14:15:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3HKEkN01142 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 14:14:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.34.187]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GUQ001PZAWKE2@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 13:14:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Those white tapes.... In-reply-to: X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020417130823.00c2e860@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 13:10:19 -0700 Status: RO >My own theory that is beginning to form is that they are there to keep the >shoulders of the bodice on the body... But that's certainly up for >debate. Any thoughts? They go over the dress an various angles, so they're not part of the dress. They're not decorated, so they must be utilitarian, probably day-to-day. Mr. Holbein is dead, so we can't ask him. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 17 17:46:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA11147 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 17:46:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3HKi4X29306; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 14:44:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3HKi1N18666; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 14:44:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3HKhgN18415 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 14:43:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bigbird.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.244] helo=bigbird.psp.pas.earthlink.net) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16xwHF-0007ne-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 13:43:41 -0700 Received: (from nobody@localhost) by bigbird.psp.pas.earthlink.net (8.10.2+Sun/8.10.2) id g3HKhf914348 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 13:43:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Goodman To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Those white tapes.... Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: 156.41.168.26 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: lithiate@earthlink.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 13:43:41 -0700 Status: RO That's not what I meant. The straps are seperate, and yes, obviously not part of the bodice itself. What I was thinking was that they would be pinned to the bodice to create tension that would keep the sleeves on the shoulders. Needless to say, I haven't given this theory a try yet... ;) Sarah On Wed, 17 Apr 2002 13:10:19 -0700 Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: >My own theory that is beginning to form is that they are there to keep the >shoulders of the bodice on the body... But that's certainly up for >debate. Any thoughts? They go over the dress an various angles, so they're not part of the dress. They're not decorated, so they must be utilitarian, probably day-to-day. Mr. Holbein is dead, so we can't ask him. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 17 17:58:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA11189 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 17:58:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3HKt3X00563; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 14:55:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3HKt2N25086; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 14:55:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (mta02-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.42]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3HKsAN24606 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 14:54:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from master ([62.255.179.129]) by mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020417205410.PUMC286.mta02-svc.ntlworld.com@master> for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 21:54:10 +0100 From: "Jane Williams" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] waistcoatembroidery. Message-ID: <3CBDEF01.174.69D4B@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3CBDCDAC.1D2D2E07@post12.tele.dk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.01) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: jane@williams.nildram.co.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 21:54:09 +0100 Status: RO On 17 Apr 2002 at 21:31, Leif Drews wrote: > Hi > Here, as promised the embroidery for the waistcoat at: > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/weeklycostume.htm Ooh, that's gorgeous! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 17 18:02:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA11220 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 18:02:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3HL0HX01159; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 15:00:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3HL0DN28596; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 15:00:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3HKxuN28399 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 14:59:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LalahTT@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.35.2557e695 (16931) for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 16:59:40 -0400 (EDT) From: LalahTT@aol.com Message-ID: <35.2557e695.29ef3c3b@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] waistcoatembroidery. To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_35.2557e695.29ef3c3b_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10560 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 16:59:39 EDT Status: RO --part1_35.2557e695.29ef3c3b_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You do such beautiful work! Lalah Never Give up, Never Surrender, - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Looking for a great gift? Check out Beary Classy Bears at http://hometown.aol.com/bearyclassybears/myhomepage/sale.html --part1_35.2557e695.29ef3c3b_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit      You do such beautiful work!

Lalah
Never Give up, Never Surrender,
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Looking for a great gift?  Check out Beary Classy Bears at
http://hometown.aol.com/bearyclassybears/myhomepage/sale.html

--part1_35.2557e695.29ef3c3b_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 17 20:00:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA12626 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 20:00:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3HMvQh02033; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 16:57:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3HMv8A03205; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 16:57:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3HMuPA02679 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 16:56:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (213-78-118-116.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.118.116]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AFM78852; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 23:27:25 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <01d501c1e65f$ea7803e0$c9704ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Riding habits and side-saddles MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 23:33:36 +0100 Status: RO >I had an opportunity to learn side-saddle one summer, and then rode same in a parade. I practiced w/ a towel draped over my legs to accustom my appy mare to something flapping around on one side :). Don't you rug horses in the US ? We have never had problems with the costume at all > I tried both the single (curve-up) horn and double (one up, one down) horn saddles. It was my understanding the double was meant more for hunting and I did find it more secure. The leaping head was a later development, used for leaping (jumping) so yes it was developed for hunting amazons, but used outside hunting once it was made, for those who could afford or wanted new saddles > I had a problem with one or the other of my legs falling asleep however. Which one top or bottom ? >When I did the ride in costume it was a full-skirted one and I had no problems mounting, dismounting, or moving around on the horse with a full skirt (altho it was a fairly lt-weight fabric) but I was glad I had had some practice. One should never mount or dismount without help, it isn't becomming > It has been many years since I researched this but I don't remember finding anything but full-skirted habits. A museum I catalogued costumes for while in college had, what we thought, was a riding habit from the late 1800's and it had a full skirt. I can't remember the exact date for Aprons, but I think it was more 1900s Mel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 17 20:00:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA12630 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 20:00:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3HMwhh02215; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 16:58:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3HMwfA04332; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 16:58:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.gmx.net (pop.gmx.de [213.165.64.20]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g3HMuoA02947 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 16:56:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 29649 invoked by uid 0); 17 Apr 2002 22:50:03 -0000 Received: from pd9e4ffa0.dip.t-dialin.net (HELO ?217.228.255.160?) (217.228.255.160) by mail.gmx.net (mp004-rz3) with SMTP; 17 Apr 2002 22:50:03 -0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Subject: Re: [h-cost] fitting From: Cassandra Greer To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3CBDC57C.D4677AA4@post12.tele.dk> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 00:50:05 +0200 Status: RO > I have scanned some photos of the waistcoat embroidery to match the > jacket, and if some of you would like to se, i could post! You need to ask us? Are you kidding?! ;) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 17 20:25:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA12728 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 20:25:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3HNO0h05029; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 17:24:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3HNO0A18734; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 17:24:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from tisch.mail.mindspring.net (tisch.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.157]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3HNNtA18692 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 17:23:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from user-38lc29c.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.9.44]) by tisch.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16xxWh-00002S-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 18:03:43 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: To: h-costume@indra.com From: Chris Laning Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sitting in a bustle Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 10:06:13 -0700 Status: RO I've been trying to imagine how it is that I can routinely sit down in my farthingale without having to touch my skirts with my hands, and without any problems with it most of the time. First of all, the chair or bench has to be wide enough -- otherwise you can't slide all the way back in the seat and do have to sit on just the edge, which is uncomfortable for any length of time. This is one reason why my portable Renaissance-Faire seating is a small padded bench with no sides. I think what I do that makes a difference is that just before I sit, I bend forward a little from the hips. This raises the back of my skirt and gives me the necessary slack to sit gracefully. It also flattens the back of the top hoop of the farthingale, where it's pressed between the back of my legs and the front of the chair, causing the hoop to tilt downwards a bit in front, which lessens any tendency for it to suddenly flip upwards. What seems to trigger the dreaded "farthingale flip" is sitting down too quickly, without controlling the back of the hoop with one's legs. Another contributing factor to having "tame" skirts is that mine are rather heavy, and my hoops are fairly flexible, being stiffened with the thin 1-inch steel strapping that lumberyards use when shipping bundles of boards. (Which also has the advantage of being free, though you do have to take it out when you wash the farthingale....) The drawback to all this (dare I say "flip side"? ) is that I have twice managed to land unexpectedly on the ground, right on my dignity, when I've gone to sit down on a lightweight bench or chair. If I sail up to it and execute a graceful 180-degree turn before sitting down on it, I have to keep in mind that my heavy skirts are quite capable of knocking the thing over behind me, whereupon I get a surprise when I try to sit down on something that's no longer there! A precautionary look over one's shoulder before sitting is a good idea... -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 17 22:03:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA13294 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 22:03:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3I111h11510; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 19:01:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3I110A25287; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 19:01:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m09.mx.aol.com (imo-m09.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.164]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3I10qA25236 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 19:00:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.c6.a2288c8 (24896); Wed, 17 Apr 2002 21:00:34 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Those white tapes.... To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_c6.a2288c8.29ef74ab_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10560 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 21:00:27 EDT Status: RO --part1_c6.a2288c8.29ef74ab_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/17/2002 3:32:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lithiate@earthlink.net writes: > http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/moregirls.jpg > > Where did this painting come from? Ruffs in Henry VIII's time???? These girls look like they were "taken" from other [and earlier] Tudor paintings. --part1_c6.a2288c8.29ef74ab_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/17/2002 3:32:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lithiate@earthlink.net writes:


http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/moregirls.jpg



Where did this painting come from? Ruffs in Henry VIII's time???? These girls look like they were "taken" from other [and earlier] Tudor paintings. --part1_c6.a2288c8.29ef74ab_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 17 22:03:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA13298 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 22:03:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3I11Sh11593; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 19:01:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3I11SA25470; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 19:01:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m09.mx.aol.com (imo-m09.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.164]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3I10wA25266 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 19:00:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.c6.a2288c8 (24896); Wed, 17 Apr 2002 21:00:34 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Those white tapes.... To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_c6.a2288c8.29ef74ab_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10560 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 21:00:27 EDT Status: RO --part1_c6.a2288c8.29ef74ab_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/17/2002 3:32:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lithiate@earthlink.net writes: > http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/moregirls.jpg > > Where did this painting come from? Ruffs in Henry VIII's time???? These girls look like they were "taken" from other [and earlier] Tudor paintings. --part1_c6.a2288c8.29ef74ab_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/17/2002 3:32:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lithiate@earthlink.net writes:


http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/moregirls.jpg



Where did this painting come from? Ruffs in Henry VIII's time???? These girls look like they were "taken" from other [and earlier] Tudor paintings. --part1_c6.a2288c8.29ef74ab_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 17 22:06:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA13310 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 22:06:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3I141h11771; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 19:04:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3I141A26192; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 19:04:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (oe140.pav0.hotmail.com [64.4.33.133]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3I13OA26000 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 19:03:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 18:03:22 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [67.24.224.132] From: "Gia Gavino" To: "Costume List" Subject: Re: [h-cost] waistcoatembroidery. MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MSN Explorer 7.00.0021.1900 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0001_01C1E63A.278A20E0" Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Apr 2002 01:03:22.0219 (UTC) FILETIME=[D5E453B0:01C1E674] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 18:03:18 -0700 Status: RO ------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C1E63A.278A20E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable WHAAAHHHH! The this is too big for my computer to load at any reasonable= speed! If the pictures could be separated onto different thumbnails Or = something so I can bring up each picture with caption, one at a time, I c= ould look at what everyone else is drooling over... Gia/Giacinta techno challenged ----- Original Message ----- From: Leif Drews Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 1:32 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] waistcoatembroidery. Hi Here, as promised the embroidery for the waistcoat at: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/weeklycostume.htm It is the cream silk with a wreath of blue forgetmenots. The green balls i have made green because it is the colour of the jacket. I have some other better real photos but you have to wait a little, the film is in the camera, i have taken photos of the embroidery while at the frame and up close to the jacket it is going to match.... Bjarne Leif Drews =C5boulevard 5, 3 th 1635 K=F8benhavn V Bjarne Drews =C5boulevard 5,3.th 1635 K=F8benhavn V tlf. 35 37 13 70 My new domain name: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk Homepage: http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/~DeeDee_Revia/1index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C1E63A.278A20E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
WHAAAHHHH!&nbs= p; The this is too big for my computer to load at any reasonable speed!&n= bsp; If the pictures could be separated onto different thumbnails Or some= thing so I can bring up each picture with caption, one at a time, I could= look at what everyone else is drooling over...
 
<= DIV>Gia/Giacinta
techno challenged
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Leif Drews
<= DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial">Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 1:3= 2 PM
To: h-costume@indra.com=
Subject: [h-cost] waistcoat= embroidery.
 
Hi
Here, as promised the embroidery= for the waistcoat at:
http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/weeklycostume.ht= m
It is the cream silk with a wreath of blue forgetmenots. The green b= alls
i have made green because it is the colour of the jacket.
I ha= ve some other better real photos but you have to wait a little, the
fi= lm is in the camera, i have taken photos of the embroidery while at
th= e frame and up close to the jacket it is going to match....

Bjarne=


Leif Drews
=C5boulevard 5, 3 th
1635  K=F8benhavn = V

Bjarne Drews
=C5boulevard 5,3.th
1635 K=F8benhavn V
tlf. 35 37 13 70

My new domain name: http://www.my-drewscostumes.= dk

Homepage: http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph

Homepage: h= ttp://members.tripod.com/~DeeDee_Revia/1index.html


___________= ____________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costu= me@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
=
------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C1E63A.278A20E0-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 17 22:15:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA13332 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 22:15:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3I1D1h12196; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 19:13:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3I1D1A29145; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 19:13:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d07.mx.aol.com (imo-d07.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.39]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3I1C2A28781 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 19:12:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.1a0.df5e22 (24896) for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 21:11:45 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <1a0.df5e22.29ef7749@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Those white tapes.... To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_1a0.df5e22.29ef7749_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10560 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 21:11:37 EDT Status: RO --part1_1a0.df5e22.29ef7749_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/17/2002 3:32:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lithiate@earthlink.net writes: > http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/english.jpg (the Holbein you mentioned) > Looking at this the arrangement to me seems to be thus: The straps start on either side front, it looks like at the slightly above waist level you mentioned earlier...held by those pins perhaps? They travel over the shoulders, cross in back and come to the front to hold up the FRONT of the gown. The sash is placed over the pulled up front but not it seems over the straps as they come from the back around the sides. The back drape is entirely due to the woman holding up the sides of her skirts. If she dropped the fabric, the back of the skirts would fall smoothly to the ground. The mysterious straps hold nothing up in back. --part1_1a0.df5e22.29ef7749_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/17/2002 3:32:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lithiate@earthlink.net writes:


http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/english.jpg (the Holbein you mentioned)


Looking at this the arrangement to me seems to be thus:
The straps start on either side front, it looks like at the slightly above waist level you mentioned earlier...held by those pins perhaps? They travel over the shoulders, cross in back and come to the front to hold up the FRONT of the gown. The sash is placed over the pulled up front but not it seems over the straps as they come from the back around the sides.
The back drape is entirely due to the woman holding up the sides of her skirts. If she dropped the fabric, the back of the skirts would fall smoothly to the ground. The mysterious straps hold nothing up in back. --part1_1a0.df5e22.29ef7749_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 17 22:17:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA13354 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 22:17:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3I1E1h12257; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 19:14:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3I1E1A29527; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 19:14:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3I1D9A29248 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 19:13:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DarlaKDavis@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.149.d154127 (3845) for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 21:12:57 -0400 (EDT) From: DarlaKDavis@aol.com Message-ID: <149.d154127.29ef7799@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] waistcoatembroidery. To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_149.d154127.29ef7799_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 121 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 21:12:57 EDT Status: RO --part1_149.d154127.29ef7799_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > photos of the embroidery while at > the frame and up close to the jacket it is going to match.... > > Bjarne > Gorgeous! Marvelous! Katrin Brjansdottir (who wants to be Bjarne's new best friend!) --part1_149.d154127.29ef7799_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit  


photos of the embroidery while at
the frame and up close to the jacket it is going to match....

Bjarne


Gorgeous! Marvelous!

Katrin Brjansdottir (who wants to be Bjarne's new best friend!) --part1_149.d154127.29ef7799_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 17 22:22:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA13377 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 22:22:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3I1L0h12663; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 19:21:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3I1L0A01895; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 19:21:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d01.mx.aol.com (imo-d01.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.33]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3I1KhA01775 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 19:20:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.140.d122071 (24896) for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 21:20:35 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <140.d122071.29ef795b@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Those white tapes.... To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_140.d122071.29ef795b_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10560 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 21:20:27 EDT Status: RO --part1_140.d122071.29ef795b_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/17/2002 4:15:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kayta@frys.com writes: > They're not decorated, so they must be utilitarian No no no...don't think this way. You'll get in trouble! Is the sash like belt decorated? Chemises sure are utilitarian....and decorated. --part1_140.d122071.29ef795b_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/17/2002 4:15:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kayta@frys.com writes:


They're not decorated, so they must be utilitarian


No no no...don't think this way. You'll get in trouble! Is the sash like belt decorated? Chemises sure are utilitarian....and decorated. --part1_140.d122071.29ef795b_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 17 23:09:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA13597 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 23:09:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3I262h14946; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 20:06:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3I260A14574; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 20:06:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3I252A14352 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 20:05:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ap-003watacop1979.dialsprint.net ([63.187.215.201] helo=laptop) by albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16y1ID-0004f5-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 19:05:02 -0700 From: "Saragrace knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Riding habits & side-saddles Organization: PII Message-ID: <002701c1e67c$643ae8c0$c9d7bb3f@laptop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 In-reply-to: <065201c1e5d4$064817e0$325d4ed5@pavilion> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 18:57:26 -0700 Status: RO **Depends on the saddle really, in later saddles you have potentially a much stronger seat, and very little change of comming off once yopu have mastered the scissor grip. I'd rather sit a buck in a side saddle than astride :) A rear however can be lethal. FIRST RULE of aside riding if your horse rears don't do side saddle on it. You are right, it depends if you have a leaping horn. But that was again a 'relatively' new invention if you are talking about the entire length of time that side-saddles were in regular use. Horses that were laterally gaited to provide a smoother ride were also used. Curious, why is a rear on a sidesaddle any more potentially lethal? Maybe you fall off, maybe get crushed by the horse falling over, or whacked in the teeth with it's head, but those things can happen astride as well. **.... it is inherently more dangerous to ride side saddle than astride (in a skirt especially!), though if that were all you did you'd probably get very proficient at it. **I disagree it is just what you are used to.** Yes, I think I said just that here, **.... though if that were all you did you'd probably get very proficient at it. Back on the topic of historical clothing: **No the Apron is wore on most occasions and gradually came in after its invention for hunting, dressage , hacking out etc. Prior to that there were various other safty skirts too. So there is some evidence then that the skirts were modified for safety? And again, if you are talking about the entire length of time that side-saddles were in regular use, the apron was a recent invention. If it isn't more dangerous, why the need for safer skirts and this cautionary advice?: If you do riding in full skirts ALWAYS make fastenings velcro, or by some other method so the rip off you if you take a fall, acuraccy is not worth an acurate head stoving in as you are dragged under the horse. I don't think most folks would consider quick release garb for clothing that was less likely to impair your ability to separate from the horse. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 17 23:58:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA13775 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 23:58:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3I2v1h17751; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 20:57:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3I2v0A29807; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 20:57:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc54.attbi.com (rwcrmhc54.attbi.com [216.148.227.87]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3I2uIA29624 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 20:56:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default.attbi.com ([24.245.40.181]) by rwcrmhc54.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020418025613.XHMB15826.rwcrmhc54.attbi.com@default.attbi.com> for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 02:56:13 +0000 Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20020417212705.02b9ab30@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: dannw@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Subject: Re: [h-cost] Those white tapes.... In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 21:59:10 -0500 Status: RO At 09:00 PM 4/17/2002 -0400, you wrote: >In a message dated 4/17/2002 3:32:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >lithiate@earthlink.net writes: > > >>http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/moregirls.jpg > > >Where did this painting come from? Ruffs in Henry VIII's time???? These >girls look like they were "taken" from other [and earlier] Tudor paintings. If I remember correctly, the original painting that Holbein did is now lost his sketch can be seen here: http://dept.english.upenn.edu/~bushnell/english-30/materials/new_family/morefamily_640x-g4.jpeg The painting was reproduced (the one in that image) by someone else in the last half of the 16th century. Lockley I believe http://dept.english.upenn.edu/~bushnell/english-30/materials/new_family/more_famB_640x-g3.jpeg The painting at http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/moregirls.jpg is a painting that is in the British Galleries at the V & A and is dated to 1593 - 1594. If you compare the details between the three images you can see how the latest one differs. Cheers, Danielle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 18 01:28:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA14061 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 01:28:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3I4Q1h22406; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 22:26:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3I4Q0A22922; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 22:26:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comet.pacifier.com ([199.2.117.155]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3I4P8A22714 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 22:25:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 ([207.173.126.53]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g3I4P5K14533 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 21:25:05 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Those white tapes.... Message-ID: <3CBDE978.11013.BBA816B@localhost> Priority: normal References: In-reply-to: <4.3.1.2.20020417130823.00c2e860@mail.frys.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 21:30:32 -0700 Status: RO > They go over the dress an various angles, so they're not part of the > dress. They're not decorated, so they must be utilitarian, probably > day-to-day. Mr. Holbein is dead, so we can't ask him. It's times like these that I desperately want to have a time bubble machine: something that takes me back to *look* at the times in a way that I don't interact with them (so that they don't look funny at me for being out of place time wise and so that I don't catch their nasty bugs or smell the place...) Sigh. Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 18 01:33:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA14096 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 01:33:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3I4W1h22655; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 22:32:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3I4W0A24468; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 22:32:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3I4VqA24431 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 22:31:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m184.in-tch.com [216.166.191.184]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g3I4JK500505 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 22:19:20 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3CBE4D64.3B4277FA@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] waistcoatembroidery. References: <149.d154127.29ef7799@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 22:36:52 -0600 Status: RO Hon, we _all_ want to be Bjarne's new best friend, especially after drooling over his newest creations --Sue ;-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 18 01:39:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA14118 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 01:39:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3I4cBh22938; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 22:38:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3I4cBA25985; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 22:38:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3I4bmA25865 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 22:37:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m184.in-tch.com [216.166.191.184]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g3I4PJ502040 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 22:25:20 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3CBE4ECC.84E144E2@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sitting in a bustle References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 22:42:52 -0600 Status: RO *snort* I've done that in my Elizabethan stuff, too. I had to learn to oh-so-gracefully fumble behind me with one hand, and grab the chair. It's quite the suprise to sit on something that's no longer there--kinda like going up a flight of stairs and thinking there's one more stair than there actually is --sue Chris Laning wrote: > > The drawback to all this (dare I say "flip side"? ) is that I have > twice managed to land unexpectedly on the ground, right on my > dignity, when I've gone to sit down on a lightweight bench or chair. > If I sail up to it and execute a graceful 180-degree turn before > sitting down on it, I have to keep in mind that my heavy skirts are > quite capable of knocking the thing over behind me, whereupon I get a > surprise when I try to sit down on something that's no longer there! > A precautionary look over one's shoulder before sitting is a good > idea... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 18 03:00:00 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA09858 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 03:00:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3I5w4h26012; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 23:58:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3I5w0A17353; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 23:58:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3I5v5A17127 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 23:57:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (213-78-126-97.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.126.97]) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AFO93947; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 06:56:55 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <00b201c1e69e$bb0e91c0$617e4ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <002701c1e67c$643ae8c0$c9d7bb3f@laptop> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Riding habits & side-saddles MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 07:03:15 +0100 Status: RO >But that was again a 'relatively' new invention if you are talking about the entire length of time that side-saddles were in regular use. Yes it is a later invention , but prior to that there were generally two horns either side of the upper leg > Horses that were laterally gaited to provide a smoother ride were also used. This might be true in the States, here we train the horse to ride at paces suitable for sidesaddle if necessary, generally though any horse will be ridden aside, except those with very long backs >Curious, why is a rear on a sidesaddle any more potentially lethal? Maybe you fall off, maybe get crushed by the horse falling over, or whacked in the teeth with it's head, but those things can happen astride as well. Simply that astride you can leap of if you are quick & the horse is about to go over, aside you can't very easily, secondly if you have to stay put your position means you can get far enough forward to get him down, so you centree of gravity is farther back and he is more likely to go over backwards in the first place. Thrirdly, if you are planning putting him off, your upper legs gets in the way & you can't smash & egg on his head easily. Bad idea rearers aside trust me on this one :) >**.... it is inherently more dangerous to ride side saddle than astride (in a skirt especially!), though if that were all you did you'd probably get very proficient at it. **I disagree it is just what you are used to.** Yes, I think I said just that here, **.... though if that were all you did you'd probably get very proficient at it. You have snipped and pasted my replies into other places that where I put them I actually wrote ">It does not have the leaping horn. I only use mine to do dressage, a very controlled practice. IMHO it is inherently more dangerous to ride side saddle ithan astride (in a skirt especially!), though if that were all you did you'd probably get very proficient at it. Depends on the saddle really, in later saddles you have potentially a much stronger seat, and very little change of comming off once yopu have mastered the scissor grip. I'd rather sit a buck in a side saddle than astride :) A rear however can be lethal. FIRST RULE of aside riding if your horse rears don't do side saddle on it. Having said that I come from slightly mad Quorn country where for generations ladies have hunted hard aside :) >The discussions I have always been involved in, always were along the line of "if you can do that side saddle, you are really good!". I disagree it is just what you are used to." So I am saying that the danger of aside depends on the saddle, not what you are used to. (taking horse factors out of it) And I disagree that you are really good to ride a side saddle there are very poor riders aside & astride, in all disciplines, please do not twist my words to mean something else. The better rider you are the less danger there is in any discipline, but some dangers are there in a style of saddle & however good you get there is still a higher risk involved. eg more rutpured spleans on western saddles. More chance of rears & fall over backwards on a side saddle. More chance of coming off on a buck in an enlidh hunting saddle than a side saddle of the same period etc. >Back on the topic of historical clothing: **No the Apron is wore on most occasions and gradually came in after its invention for hunting, dressage , hacking out etc. Prior to that there were various other safty skirts too. So there is some evidence then that the skirts were modified for safety? Yes definatly, there were many Patented Safety skirts in the Victorian period >And again, if you are talking about the entire length of time that side-saddles were in regular use, the apron was a recent invention. There were other safety skirts prior to the apron. But I did not suggest the Apron was in use at all times, I was stating how the Apron was and is worn after its invention, obviously it wasn't worn prior to that for anything, you said it was only used for practice. >If it isn't more dangerous, why the need for safer skirts and this cautionary advice?: Riding in a skirt is more dangerous , any type of riding, if we were discussing riding in a skirt astride I'd be saying the same thing. >I don't think most folks would consider quick release garb for clothing that was less likely to impair your ability to separate from the horse. Do you mean they wouldn't think about it for themselves ? This is the reason I mentioned it as it isn't necessarily an obvious thing to do. I've ridden & been in a society where it is common place for most of my life so felt the insight of a habitual aside rider might be of use. Or do you mean knowing about it they wouldn't consider using it ? If that is the case then that is their problem, they have been warned ! You can tell people things are bad for them until you are blue in the face (drugs, drink, cigarette) but if they won't listen it is their lookout really Mel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 18 05:24:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA10282 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 05:24:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3I8N2h01170; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 02:23:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3I8N0A20946; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 02:23:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [195.194.177.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3I8MQA20851 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 02:22:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from csv6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA24301.; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 09:30:02 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by csv6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 09:21:24 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.1 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] waistcoatembroidery. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g3I8MQA20851 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 09:20:58 +0100 Status: RO Wonderful, Bjarne! The stitches round the outside of the flowers really make them stand out. You must have excellent eyesight and infinite patience to make such tiny stitches. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 18 05:36:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA10325 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 05:36:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3I8Y1h01731; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 02:34:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3I8Y1A23738; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 02:34:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3I8XcA23648 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 02:33:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.34.187]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GUR001R7941UZ@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 01:33:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Those white tapes.... In-reply-to: X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020418003829.00c2e4c0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 00:39:23 -0700 Status: RO What I was thinking was that they would be pinned to the bodice to create tension that would keep the sleeves on the shoulders. If you do a V-neck in back, the shoulders stay on by themselves. I tried it - it works. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 18 05:36:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA10329 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 05:36:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3I8YCh01744; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 02:34:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3I8YBA23802; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 02:34:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3I8XdA23650 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 02:33:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.34.187]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GUR001R7941UZ@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 01:33:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Those white tapes.... In-reply-to: X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020418003945.00c307d0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 01:30:55 -0700 Status: RO >>http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/moregirls.jpg > > >Where did this painting come from? Ruffs in Henry VIII's time???? These >girls look like they were "taken" from other [and earlier] Tudor paintings. Holbein did a drawing, in 1527, of Sir Thomas More and his family, and did a painting from that. The original painting has been lost, but the one at the above site is a later copy, possibly by Holbein but I'm not sure, of the same family some years later. I wouldn't trust the Tudor details in it as much as I would the later ones. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 18 05:36:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA10333 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 05:36:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3I8YFh01760; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 02:34:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3I8YEA23830; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 02:34:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3I8XeA23659 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 02:33:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.34.187]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GUR001R7941UZ@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 01:33:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sitting in a bustle In-reply-to: <3CBE4ECC.84E144E2@in-tch.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020418011229.00c30350@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 01:14:00 -0700 Status: RO I was told to back up to the chair, till you can feel it with the backs of your legs, and sit straight down. No skirt-swooshing, no awkward turns. I think this advice is from the 1850's, but it works for many others. >*snort* I've done that in my Elizabethan stuff, too. I had to learn to >oh-so-gracefully fumble behind me with one hand, and grab the chair. >It's quite the suprise to sit on something that's no longer there--kinda >like going up a flight of stairs and thinking there's one more stair >than there actually is >--sue > >Chris Laning wrote: > > > > > The drawback to all this (dare I say "flip side"? ) is that I have > > twice managed to land unexpectedly on the ground, right on my > > dignity, when I've gone to sit down on a lightweight bench or chair. > > If I sail up to it and execute a graceful 180-degree turn before > > sitting down on it, I have to keep in mind that my heavy skirts are > > quite capable of knocking the thing over behind me, whereupon I get a > > surprise when I try to sit down on something that's no longer there! > > A precautionary look over one's shoulder before sitting is a good > > idea... >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 18 05:54:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA10404 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 05:54:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3I8r1h02317; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 02:53:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3I8r1A28388; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 02:53:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3I8qUA28265 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 02:52:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KGPDVBVP5C00GAK2@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 09:55:07 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk ([158.94.56.3]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KGPDVBC6JC016UZK@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 09:55:06 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Thu, 18 Apr 2002 09:51:24 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Thu, 18 Apr 2002 09:51:03 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.66) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 09:51:00 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sitting in a Bustle? In-reply-to: <200204171802.g3HI2GN11547@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <9CBF9727D8A@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 09:51:00 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > > Perhaps he could include it in a story-telling if he > >makes > it to another of our events? > > Don't temp him ;0) Pity I missed it, everyone told me how good he was Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 18 06:09:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA10475 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 06:09:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3I983h02668; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 03:08:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3I980A01682; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 03:08:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3I97NA01461 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 03:07:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KGPEEV9J7K014AHV@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 10:10:05 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk ([158.94.56.3]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KGPEETHA22017LGD@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 10:10:03 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Thu, 18 Apr 2002 10:06:21 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Thu, 18 Apr 2002 10:05:41 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.66) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 10:05:39 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Missing the seat (WAS: Sitting in a bustle) In-reply-to: <200204180102.g3I12QA25728@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <9CC37D77687@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 10:05:38 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > The drawback to all this (dare I say "flip side"? ) is that I > have twice managed to land unexpectedly on the ground, right on my > dignity, when I've gone to sit down on a lightweight bench or > chair. If I sail up to it and execute a graceful 180-degree turn > before sitting down on it, I have to keep in mind that my heavy > skirts are quite capable of knocking the thing over behind me, > whereupon I get a surprise when I try to sit down on something > that's no longer there! A precautionary look over one's shoulder > before sitting is a good idea... -- Thanks for the mental image - quite cheered up my morning. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 18 07:09:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA10617 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 07:09:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3IA76h04035; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 04:07:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3IA71A11156; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 04:07:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3IA6iA11107 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 04:06:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from melaniew (213-78-100-67.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.100.67]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AFN03920; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 11:06:43 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <004c01c1e6c1$62d530e0$43644ed5@melaniew> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sitting in a Bustle? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 11:11:19 +0100 Status: RO He is if anyone wants a story teller, he is avaliable for storytelling, talks etc etc :) Mel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 18 12:37:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA12119 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 12:37:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3IFa5h22638; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 09:36:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3IFa1A26122; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 09:36:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc54.attbi.com (rwcrmhc54.attbi.com [216.148.227.87]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3IFZeA25928 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 09:35:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from duck ([24.130.169.157]) by rwcrmhc54.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020418153535.PDOS15826.rwcrmhc54.attbi.com@duck> for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 15:35:35 +0000 Message-ID: <000e01c1e6ee$a68da470$9da98218@duck> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] Dating Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 08:35:20 -0700 Status: RO Hello all! Can anyone help me date these dresses? They're on the Musee de la Mode et du Textile's website, but with no dating or other information (except for the date range in the web address). 1836ish? http://www.ucad.fr/mmt/chrono/1830-1850/551.jpg http://www.ucad.fr/mmt/chrono/1830-1850/552.jpg Early 1850s? http://www.ucad.fr/mmt/chrono/1846-1865/792.jpg http://www.ucad.fr/mmt/chrono/1846-1865/795.jpg 1850s? http://www.ucad.fr/mmt/chrono/1846-1865/809.jpg Later 1860s? http://www.ucad.fr/mmt/chrono/1860-1869/909.jpg http://www.ucad.fr/mmt/chrono/1860-1869/912.jpg Later 1860s? http://www.ucad.fr/mmt/chrono/1860-1869/978.jpg Later 1860s? http://www.ucad.fr/mmt/chrono/1860-1869/933.jpg http://www.ucad.fr/mmt/chrono/1860-1869/935.jpg 1870-73ish? http://www.ucad.fr/mmt/chrono/1870-1880/1002.jpg 1876-78ish? http://www.ucad.fr/mmt/chrono/1870-1880/1082.jpg http://www.ucad.fr/mmt/chrono/1870-1880/1083.jpg Either very early or very late 1890s? http://www.ucad.fr/mmt/chrono/1890-1900/1518.jpg 1893-94ish? http://www.ucad.fr/mmt/chrono/1890-1900/1461.jpg http://www.ucad.fr/mmt/chrono/1890-1900/1465.jpg I'd appreciate any ideas anyone has! - Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 18 12:45:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA12156 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 12:45:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3IFi1h23448; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 09:44:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3IFi0A00973; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 09:44:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kumc-scanout.kumc.edu (kumc-scanout.kumc.edu [169.147.166.198]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g3IFhIA00593 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 09:43:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: FROM gatedo.kumc.edu BY kumc-scanout.kumc.edu ; Thu Apr 18 10:43:16 2002 -0500 Received: from KUMC-GATEWAY-DOMAIN-Message_Server by gatedo.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 10:43:17 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 5.5.3.1 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g3IFhIA00593 Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume digest, Vol 1 #868 - 16 msgs Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 10:43:11 -0500 Status: RO From: "Melanie Wilson" Don't you rug horses in the US ? We have never had problems with the costume at all >I believe some show horses are 'rugged' but this was a working horse that spent most of her time in the pasture, except when we were on the trail. > I had a problem with one or the other of my legs falling asleep however. Which one top or bottom ? > casting my mind back into the mists of time (too much estroen loss since then :) ), I believe it was the left one, which was braced between the stirrup and downward curved horn. As I realized what was happening I worked to find a seat that wouldn't do this but can't remember being very successful. I seem to remember that at first the right leg felt very useless but then I learned how to brace it around the horn. One should never mount or dismount without help, it isn't becomming >unfortunately when you are out on the trail rounding up a bunch of steers, or other horses, help is not always an option. Oh wait a minute, you probably mean when riding side saddle :)? Guess I was just used to being independent :) :) :). To stay more or less on topic; would long trailing riding skirts be another example of adherence to the height of fashion being a danger to your health? I don't have any 19th century links but found this fashion plate on a quick search: http://members.aol.com/EastLynne/Instyle.htm That looks like a long train thrown over her arm. Could look quite elegant flowing along the side of the horse but I would think it could trip you up on the ground, or trying to maneuver your legs around it in a fall. Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 18 12:48:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA12164 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 12:48:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3IFl5h23778; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 09:47:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3IFl3A02706; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 09:47:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com ([199.2.117.154]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3IFkNA02334 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 09:46:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 ([207.173.174.117]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g3IFkKk17016 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 08:46:20 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Those white tapes.... Message-ID: <3CBE890E.16646.E29FA35@localhost> Priority: normal References: In-reply-to: <4.3.1.2.20020418003945.00c307d0@mail.frys.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 08:51:26 -0700 Status: RO > >>http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/moregirls.jpg > > > > > >Where did this painting come from? Ruffs in Henry VIII's time???? > >These girls look like they were "taken" from other [and earlier] > >Tudor paintings. > > Holbein did a drawing, in 1527, of Sir Thomas More and his family, and > did a painting from that. The original painting has been lost, but > the one at the above site is a later copy, possibly by Holbein but I'm > not sure, of the same family some years later. I wouldn't trust the > Tudor details in it as much as I would the later ones. The original is a pen and ink drawing done by Holbein in 1527 and is called the "Basel sketch" (because that's where the sketch still "lives".) There are also several single sketches of the sitters done by Holbein as well. (It is dated "1530" but this was added in the 17th or 18th century.) It's not clear why the drawing was done, but Holbein gave it to Erasmus on his way home from England to Switzerland. There were several copies of the painting made from this sketch, including one by Holbein which was finished in about 1528. If Holbein did a painting, it has since been lost. There are two main copies: one called the Nostell version is said to be done shortly after Holbein did his and the one with the ruffs which was done by Rowland Locky c1593. There are several other copies, most of which follow the Nostell version (including a miniature). The one by Locky with the ruffs was probably done at the request of one of More's decendants (probably William Roper's son). It was done off of the original but he added the later decendants (but took out Alice More and Margaret Griggs, as well as Henry Patenson.) Can you tell that Thomas More is a favorite historical person for me. ;) If I had to trust a painting, I'd trust the Nostell painting and the Basel sketch over any of the others (and there are a lot of them.) Details are probably ok in the Locky painting with regards to the earlier figures but I don't trust details of things done that much after the clothing were worn. Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 18 14:32:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA12640 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 14:32:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3IHV8h05702; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 11:31:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3IHV1A04304; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 11:31:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3IHUDA03704 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 11:30:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comcast.net (pcp670884pcs.indpnd01.mo.comcast.net [68.34.234.170]) by mtaout04.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built Feb 6 2002)) with ESMTP id <0GUR00AOJXY7TL@mtaout04.icomcast.net> for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 13:30:07 -0400 (EDT) From: "Linda J. Thompson" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Message-id: <3CBF0329.60200@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 Subject: [h-cost] Gable headdress, what are those? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 12:32:25 -0500 Status: RO Ok, while looking at all the tapes, I decided to look at some headresses... on this picture, what are those pointy looking bits that poke outwards from the lower portion of the headdress on Lady Eliot? http://www.abcgallery.com/H/holbein/holbein34.html -- Linda Thompson Visit www.seams-to-be.com where Attitude is Everything _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 18 15:24:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12938 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 15:24:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3IIMoh11219; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 12:22:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3IIMnA04482; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 12:22:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-36.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-36.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.94]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3IIGsA00853 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 12:16:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-36.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 16yGSe-0003PX-0a; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 19:16:51 +0100 Message-ID: <51CQWGD20wv8IwsI@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@net.indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gable headdress, what are those? References: <3CBF0329.60200@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: <3CBF0329.60200@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 19:15:18 +0100 Status: RO Linda J. Thompson wrote >Ok, while looking at all the tapes, I decided to look at some >headresses... on this picture, what are those pointy looking bits that >poke outwards from the lower portion of the headdress on Lady Eliot? > >http://www.abcgallery.com/H/holbein/holbein34.html > I think they are somehow the ends of the fabric covering of the stiffened cap - you see where it's all pinked round the edges? I can't work out exactly what's going on, but I think maybe it's something that couldn't be finished off without a cobbled bit, so they made a virtue of it and turned it out with a flick. The bottom of the stiffened cap usually turns out on gable hoods - see Jane Seymour or Margaret Pole - but it generally looks to be bent across the width of the lappet, not just a pointy bit like this one. Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 18 15:27:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12945 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 15:27:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3IIPuh11595; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 12:25:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3IIPqA06314; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 12:25:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-36.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-36.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.94]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3IIGsA00852 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 12:16:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-36.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 16yGSe-0003PX-0a; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 19:16:51 +0100 Message-ID: <51CQWGD20wv8IwsI@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@net.indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gable headdress, what are those? References: <3CBF0329.60200@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: <3CBF0329.60200@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 19:15:18 +0100 Status: RO Linda J. Thompson wrote >Ok, while looking at all the tapes, I decided to look at some >headresses... on this picture, what are those pointy looking bits that >poke outwards from the lower portion of the headdress on Lady Eliot? > >http://www.abcgallery.com/H/holbein/holbein34.html > I think they are somehow the ends of the fabric covering of the stiffened cap - you see where it's all pinked round the edges? I can't work out exactly what's going on, but I think maybe it's something that couldn't be finished off without a cobbled bit, so they made a virtue of it and turned it out with a flick. The bottom of the stiffened cap usually turns out on gable hoods - see Jane Seymour or Margaret Pole - but it generally looks to be bent across the width of the lappet, not just a pointy bit like this one. Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 18 17:55:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA13704 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 17:55:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3IKp8h26572; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 14:51:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3IKp3A29723; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 14:51:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3IKoEA29233 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 14:50:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comcast.net (pcp670884pcs.indpnd01.mo.comcast.net [68.34.234.170]) by mtaout03.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built Feb 6 2002)) with ESMTP id <0GUS00B1K77KOK@mtaout03.icomcast.net> for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 16:50:09 -0400 (EDT) From: "Linda J. Thompson" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Message-id: <3CBF320A.9000900@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 Subject: [h-cost] re: Those white tapes again. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 15:52:26 -0500 Status: RO Sarah, wonderful sources, thank you. (wish I had more free time to cruise the net, isn't it a marvelous invention. Have now bookmarked all of the sites for future reference!) A pair of suspenders is actually what started me on this train of thought. They come straight up the front, and cross over each other in the back. Ok, on to the portraits you presented. (I really should be working but this is more fun) Oh and may I say at this point that I in no way am implying that the tapes could not be something else. These are simply my observations and why I believe what I do. IMHO of course.... And in no way imply others are wrong in their views....And since I only have access to reproductions on the computer, there are tons of information missed in these views. That said... onward >Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 12:30:37 -0700 >From: Sarah Goodman >Hi Linda, >That theory has been brought up before and I must say that I thought this was the case as well, until I >looked good and hard at the Holbein sketch and decided that the straps around the shoulders and the >strap holding up the front of the skirt aren't the same >thing. Numerous other people have reached this conclusion also. The upper and lower views of the tapes are not the same tape in the Holbein I refer too? The presentation in the picture is at differing angles and could be the same tape, the artist is very strong on perspective. (Not saying it is true or not, just working my side of the debate) :D Another thought is perhaps there are more than one style of tapes. One style to hold the back up (pin to the front, over the shoulder and down to the back of the skirt) . One style to hold the front up. (comes from front of skirt, wraps around back and to the other side of front of skirt.) And perhaps one style that does both at the same time. http://www.abcgallery.com/H/holbein/holbein21.html I would have to say that this portrait does not present enough information to say one way or the other on their use. It may be that when the tapes are not in use, it was simply a matter of leaving them on to avoid the time of reapplying them as the day progressed. I just cannot imagine what their decorative purpose would be. http://www.marquise.de/1500/pics/1530_2.shtml This shows the straps seemingly wrapping around to the back. Which could support my theory. Or none of it at all. :) http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/boleyn1525.jpg Not enough picture to say much, other than they do seem to curve towards the sides of the bodice tightly, which can imply tension of some sort. (Perhaps those pins in the other portrait? Or skirts attached in the back?) http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/dauncey.jpg The angle of the tape could easily support what I believe. The tape obviously curves downward and could be going towards the back under the arm. The upper portion of the tape is coming from the back shoulder area from the direction that implies it is coming from the center line of the torso. (Since we can not see the back, this could simply imply that it drapes across the back neck and over the other shoulder also.) But it could fit within my theory. http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/cecilia.jpg >(this is interesting because the straps appear to terminate a little above waist level) This could also simply be the tape might be tucked towards the back, or pulled to the back to get it out of the way when not in use (folded back at that point?). Or they could be one of the styles I theorized of at the beginnning. (theorized, sounds so much better than "made up". :D since this isn't a science, maybe I should say I "speculated" ) http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/henegham.jpg Would seem that the tapes serve no obvious purpose, but perhaps she was taking a moment to sit for the artist on her way to do other duties, so her skirts are actually taped up in the front at the moment and that is why the tape seems to go straight down (out of the line of view). http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/holb5.jpg >(there are what appear to be two pins in this sketch that are holding the straps to the bodice. One at >the neckline level and one at the end of the strap) Perhaps these are a variation on the straps that hold up both back and front. This one is a mystery to me. Although I do not believe there is a pin on the shoulder at the neckline. It looks more like a charcoal smudge or something. It does not have the same dimension as the pin on the lower portion. http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/moregirls.jpg Throwing this portrait completely out of the debate. It is not a portrait from the time period we are discussing. The original sketch yes, but not this picture. http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/roper.jpg I love the detail on that blackwork.... wow... Can not say one way or the other on what these straps do, simply not enough information. However they are there, and seem to go down and under the arm with some tension on them? (Tension meaning that they are firmly against the body in some manner) http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/margaret.jpg >(wide straps) When I saw this picture years ago (before I knew or even cared about the tapes) I thought this was a kercheif that was folded back. And if you look at the angle of the drape it is not going towards the sides, but towards the front. Not sure these are even the tapes we have been discussing? But if they were tapes, then they could be holding up the front skirt which would explain the angle ( see henegham above) http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/english.jpg >(the Holbein you mentioned) Refer to my original post. http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/backsketch.jpg >(the other Holbein sketch that gets refered to quite a bit. I'm inclined to believe that the thick bands at >the back that form a "V" are probably the shoulder straps viewed from behind) I feel that the "V" we are seeing in the back is not the tapes, but simply a continuation of the band that edges the opening of the neckline. And with the exception of that one faint line in the front, I can't see any tapes in evidence. Look closely at the corner of the neckline in the front, where it turns up towards the shoulder. The horizontal line of the front seems to be in front of the vertical line going up. And to the right of that the chain obscures the view too much to say if that is a tape coming up, or simply an errant line in the sketch. >Now, as far as I've ever been able to tell, English women are the only ones who are depicted wearing >these straps. I'd love to hear if anyone else has a lead on women from other countries sporting the >straps. Also, they are around for a very short space of time, from the 1520's the early 1540's if the >portraits are to be believed as dated accuritely. The dating of the straps. Didn't the style of gown begin to change around the 1540's? From some of the portraiture (the few I have seen in the few books I have) that show the full length views, I believe the gowns stopped having folds of fabric dragging the ground as much. At least they do not seem to be dragging as extravagantly as Holbien sketches of full views show. So if this is the case (have not even looked into when the lengths began to change), then perhaps the tapes dissapeared simply because they were no longer needed? The portrait of Catherine Parr comes to mind? Her gown stops at the floor. http://www.marquise.de/1500/pics/1545_3.shtml >I've heard the argument that these might be devotional based upon the number of catholic ladies wearing >them, which is an interesting theory. I'm not sure I agree with it, though. From my experience in the Catholic church, once they start a tradition, it never gets dropped. (The reason the host was served straight to the tongue for centuries, was way way way back, people would horde it and keep it as a holy object instead of eating it, which defeated the purpose of the ceremony. This did not get changed until the last century when hygiene became an issue.) >My own theory that is beginning to form is that they are there to keep >the shoulders of the bodice on the body... But that's certainly up for debate. Any thoughts? >Sarah In what manner would the straps be attached to the shoulders/sleeves? ***Combining another response to this since it is the same thread*** Hello AlbertCat@aol.com, I believe the woman is actually holding up her kirtle, not the gown. (She seems to have 3 skirted items on). If you look to the angle of the fabric, and the way it drapes at the back then follow the line up, you can see through the gap at the arm that her skirts are above the waist by more than a few inches and it is fairly full at that. She may be supporting the gown at the sides, but for her skirts to be that high in the back it is unlikely that just holding them low at the sides, as it appears, would raise the back that high. I have seen many women with heavy to medium weight gowns on at fair, and none of them are able to get the backs up that high when there is that much fabric to deal with, without having them held up high at the sides. And the positioning of her one hand that we can see, does not support this. Did they commonly wear bumrolls during the 20's to 40's? Maybe that is where the height comes from? Curious to see how many English portraits from this time show NO tapes? Does anyone know? And where the tapes actually start on the sides I believe is too shadowed to say whether they come from the back or originate at that spot? Thank you for all of your input. And I really enjoyed it! > > From: AlbertCat@aol.com > In a message dated 4/17/2002 3:32:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >>http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/english.jpg (the Holbein you mentioned) >> > > Looking at this the arrangement to me seems to be thus: > The straps start on either side front, it looks like at the slightly above > waist level you mentioned earlier...held by those pins perhaps? They travel > over the shoulders, cross in back and come to the front to hold up the FRONT > of the gown. The sash is placed over the pulled up front but not it seems > over the straps as they come from the back around the sides. > The back drape is entirely due to the woman holding up the sides of her > skirts. If she dropped the fabric, the back of the skirts would fall smoothly > to the ground. The mysterious straps hold nothing up in back. > > --part1_1a0.df5e22.29ef7749_boundary > Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > In a message dated 4/17/2002 3:32:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lithiate@earthlink.net writes: >
>
>
http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/english.jpg (the Holbein you mentioned) >
>
>
Looking at this the arrangement to me seems to be thus: >
The straps start on either side front, it looks like at the slightly above waist level you mentioned earlier...held by those pins perhaps? They travel over the shoulders, cross in back and come to the front to hold up the FRONT of the gown. The sash is placed over the pulled up front but not it seems over the straps as they come from the back around the sides. >
The back drape is entirely due to the woman holding up the sides of her skirts. If she dropped the fabric, the back of the skirts would fall smoothly to the ground. The mysterious straps hold nothing up in back. > > --part1_1a0.df5e22.29ef7749_boundary-- > -- Linda Thompson Visit www.seams-to-be.com where Attitude is Everything _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 18 18:37:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA13963 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 18:37:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3ILa5h01213; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 15:36:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3ILa2A26157; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 15:36:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from catrio.org (cs666873-133.austin.rr.com [66.68.73.133]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3ILZHA25666 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 15:35:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from ddoug@localhost) by catrio.org (8.11.2/8.11.2) id g3ILZGv05149; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 16:35:16 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <15551.15378.537497.228639@cs666873-133.austin.rr.com> From: Debra Douglass To: h-costume@indra.com X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 20.7.1 Subject: [h-cost] Online for Trigger cloth? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 16:35:14 -0500 Status: RO Could someone recommend an online source for trigger cloth in a variety of colors (including grey)? Thanks, -Debra -- .------------------------------------------------------------------. |Debra Douglass ddoug@catrio.org http://www.catrio.org| `------------------------------------------------------------------' _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 18 18:57:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA14210 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 18:57:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3ILu3h03189; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 15:56:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3ILu0A07755; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 15:56:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3ILteA07492 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 15:55:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-224-154-54.thegrid.net ([216.224.154.54]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16yJsR-0000S3-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 14:55:40 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: Those white tapes again. From: Sarah Goodman To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3CBF320A.9000900@comcast.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 14:55:30 -0700 Status: RO Hi Linda, Unfortunately, I don't have time to respond to the whole email at the moment, but I wanted to toss something else out for thought... Looking at the More sketches and the various portraits of the More women I refered to, I was thinking... Wonder if these straps have some symbolic purpose for pregnancy? Okay, this is really reaching, but the sketch of Mother Jack got me thinking about this (http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/holb5.jpg). She was Edward's wetnurse, I believe... And in the sketch, she looks pregnant... And the More ladies are preggers, too. In the larger More family sketches, the nonpregnant women are not shown wearing these straps (note to self: find picture of the Holbein sketch to share). Of course the big caveat with this theory is that in the other 98% of artwork we have that shows these straps there is no way to tell whether or not the woman being shown is pregnant (unless some brave soul wants to venture out into Research Land and see if there's a reference to a pregnancy or recent birth at the time when the portrait was painted). Okay, just food for thought. I'll get back to the rest of the email after class tonight... :) Sarah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 18 19:17:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA14418 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 19:17:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3IMG2h05149; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 16:16:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3IMG1A18564; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 16:16:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtprelay9.dc2.adelphia.net (smtprelay9.dc2.adelphia.net [64.8.50.53]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3IMFgA18363 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 16:15:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [68.65.178.96] ([68.65.178.96]) by smtprelay9.dc2.adelphia.net (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id GUSB5U00.WGI for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 18:15:30 -0400 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: [h-cost] waistcoatembroidery. From: randl To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 18:15:24 -0400 Status: RO Well, the votes are in...Bjarne rocks! I showed your web-site to a couple of friends of mine and they were flabberghasted! One of them is a needlework laurel (in the SCA) and we thought she was insane (in a good way), but you win! Laurie > Wonderful, Bjarne! The stitches round the outside of the flowers really make > them stand out. You must have excellent eyesight and infinite patience to make > such tiny stitches. > > Kate Bunting > Library, University of Derby > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 18 20:01:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA14585 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 20:01:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3IMx4h09280; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 16:59:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3IMx0A10897; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 16:59:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scanmail2.cableone.net (scanmail2.cableone.net [24.116.0.122]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3IMwtA10813 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 16:58:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scanmail2.cableone.net ([10.116.0.122]) by scanmail2.cableone.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Thu, 18 Apr 2002 15:56:55 -0700 Received: from scanmail2.cableone.net [24.116.0.122] by scanmail2.cableone.net (SMTPD32-7.04) id AF3612D800DA; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 15:56:54 -0700 Received: from kimathlon (186-130.farcpe.cableone.net [24.116.186.130]) by mail.cableone.net with SMTP (MailShield v2.04 - WIN32 Jul 17 2001 17:12:42); Thu, 18 Apr 2002 15:56:54 -0600 From: "Kim Baird" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Dating Message-ID: <000001c1e72c$9d7803b0$6401a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <000e01c1e6ee$a68da470$9da98218@duck> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal X-SMTP-HELO: kimathlon X-SMTP-MAIL-FROM: kbaird@cableone.net X-SMTP-RCPT-TO: h-costume@indra.com X-SMTP-PEER-INFO: 186-130.farcpe.cableone.net [24.116.186.130] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 17:58:54 -0500 Status: RO -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of Kendra Van Cleave Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 10:35 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Dating Hello all! Can anyone help me date these dresses? They're on the Musee de la Mode et du Textile's website, but with no dating or other information (except for the date range in the web address). ********************************** This one looks like early 20th century to me--look at the puffed-out tummy and the high waisted back. 1903? Kim 1893-94ish? http://www.ucad.fr/mmt/chrono/1890-1900/1461.jpg http://www.ucad.fr/mmt/chrono/1890-1900/1465.jpg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 18 20:03:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA14592 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 20:03:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3IN21h09539; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 17:02:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3IN20A12562; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 17:02:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from blount.mail.mindspring.net (blount.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.226]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3IN1PA12304 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 17:01:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from user-33qtnme.dialup.mindspring.com ([199.174.222.206]) by blount.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16yKu2-0000F4-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 19:01:22 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <9CC37D77687@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> References: <9CC37D77687@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> To: h-costume@indra.com From: Chris Laning Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] Re: Missing the seat (WAS: Sitting in a bustle) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 09:56:43 -0700 Status: RO At 10:05 AM +0000 4/18/02, Teddy wrote: >Thanks for the mental image - quite cheered up my morning. You're welcome ! Unfortunately the second time I did this, I managed to land just right to break one of the bars on my (then) embroidery frame, rendering the whole thing instantly useless. Fortunately it was a $15 garage sale 'find' so I wasn't out a lot of money. And it spurred me to actually get a local woodworker to make me a new one, which I'm very proud of! The other neat trick in a farthingale that I enjoy is startling people (backstage) at outdoor costumed events when I emerge in a full farthingale from a normal-sized port-a-privy. The secret is that before you enter said privy, you use one hand to pull the farthingale and overskirt all the way up to your waist in the back. This keeps the hoops under control so you can turn around once you get inside and shut the door. All that's necessary when you emerge is to let the hoops fall back into place, and then genteelly jump up and down a few times to settle all the skirts. (I'm told the period method of doing this is to twirl around a few times; rumor has it there are actual citations of people for twirling in the streets......) -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 18 20:13:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA14638 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 20:13:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3INB1h10265; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 17:11:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3INB1A17018; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 17:11:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sjc3-1.relay.mail.uu.net (sjc3-1.relay.mail.uu.net [199.171.54.122]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3INAPA16623 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 17:10:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pop.net by sjc3sosrv11.alter.net with ESMTP (peer crosschecked as: bristol.maxson.com [199.170.3.8]) id QQmlei11300 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 23:10:23 GMT Message-ID: <3CBF5258.914F39F5@pop.net> From: Jessica Wilbur X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1 Looking for information on Swiss clothing References: <185.6b68b1f.29e9879f@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 19:10:16 -0400 Status: RO BOSTONHAHN@aol.com wrote: > > Sorry to answer this message so late. Holbein did 5 or 6 edgings on > Swiss Ladies, it was called a costume study. If you cannot find those > pictures I have them in a Holbein exhibit book. If I am not mistaken > the exhibit was in Basel Switzerland. > Elisabeth Thanks to everyone for their information on Swiss clothing! I've passed on all your comments to my friend. I'm sure she will find them helpful. --Jessica _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 18 20:34:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA14739 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 20:34:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3INX2h11842; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 17:33:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3INX0A26347; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 17:33:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13509.mail.yahoo.com (web13509.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.13]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g3INWMA26076 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 17:32:22 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020418233222.20777.qmail@web13509.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [143.192.1.15] by web13509.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 16:32:22 PDT From: Sheila To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200204181815.g3IIFtA00207@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Re: Those white tapes.... Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 16:32:22 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO > Re: Those white tapes.... Thought this would be an interesting addition to the discussion...... http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Margaret%20Pole.jpg Personally I did my Tudor with a V-neck back cut on the straight so it wouldn't stretch, and had no problem with the shoulders falling off. The one I did for a friend had minor problems which I fixed by making the shoulders straps tighter. Sheila __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 18 20:55:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA14805 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 20:55:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3INs4h13244; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 17:54:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3INs0A04961; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 17:54:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r01.mx.aol.com (imo-r01.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.97]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3INrGA04714 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 17:53:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.154.c922248 (30974) for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 19:53:00 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <154.c922248.29f0b65c@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: Those white tapes again. To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_154.c922248.29f0b65c_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10564 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 19:53:00 EDT Status: RO --part1_154.c922248.29f0b65c_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/18/02 4:52:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, LindaJThompson@comcast.net writes: > I believe the woman is actually holding up her kirtle, not the gown. (She > seems to have 3 > Agreed. She is holding in her hand the second layer. But I believe she is also supporting the outer layer. The folds are very thick and don't seem to me anyway to be supported by any padding or tapes. The deep folds may be pinned at the sides, but I don't see how the tapes could hold this arrangement without us seeing it at the angle she is depicted. The drape seems to be "free" across the back, from what I can see, It's amazing these tapes are not mentioned in diaries or something. Some of the most obscure stuff is mentioned in all periods. I'm surprised there's no letter from mother to daughter explaining "strap fashion". Perhaps it's in a trunk somewhere just waiting to be discovered. --part1_154.c922248.29f0b65c_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/18/02 4:52:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, LindaJThompson@comcast.net writes:


I believe the woman is actually holding up her kirtle, not the gown. (She seems to have 3
skirted items on


Agreed. She is holding in her hand the second layer. But I believe she is also supporting the outer layer. The folds are very thick and don't seem to me anyway to be supported by any padding or tapes. The deep folds may be pinned at the sides, but I don't see how the tapes could hold this arrangement without us seeing it at the angle she is depicted. The drape seems to be "free" across the back, from what I can see,

It's amazing these tapes are not mentioned in diaries or something. Some of the most obscure stuff is mentioned in all periods. I'm surprised there's no letter from mother to daughter explaining "strap fashion". Perhaps it's in a trunk somewhere just waiting to be discovered. --part1_154.c922248.29f0b65c_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 18 21:47:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA15005 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 21:47:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3J0k2h16034; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 18:46:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3J0k0A23412; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 18:46:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.62]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3J0jUA23239 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 18:45:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 66-44-17-167.s1945.apx2.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com ([66.44.17.167] helo=oldwaylane.net) by smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #10) id 16yMWn-0001P6-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 20:45:29 -0400 Message-ID: <3CBF68E9.4090604@oldwaylane.net> From: Judy Mitchell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:0.9.3) Gecko/20010801 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1400's Danish? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: judymitch@oldwaylane.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 20:46:33 -0400 Status: RO Mary Temple wrote: > A friend of mine is searching for information on 1400's men's Danish > clothing. Could someone please give me some leads? Hello, Oddly Margrethe Hald's book does deal with info on medeaval stuff. She mentions Boksten and also Kragelund (4 gore tunic) about the same time, and shows photos of some medieval finds. It's _Ancient Danish Textiles from Bogs and Burial_ Margrethe Hald. Copenhagen: The National Museum of Denmark. 1980. ISBN 87-480-0312-3 In my copy of _Danske bonders Kladedragt_ it says (in the English summary, since I can't read the Danish!) "The peasant's grey fireze coat is mentioned in ancient ballads, and in 15th cent wall-paintings in churches and in illustartions of later date we see farmers working in short coats. A short white frieze coat was the everyday working dress in many parts of the country up to the 1850s. Presumably early peasnat coats did not differ greatly from the short frieze coats dating respectively from the Iron Age and from the 13-14th century that have been found in Scandinavia; they were probably pulled on over tyhe head and had no collar, cuffs or pocket flaps. "Kirtle ("Kjortel"). [snipped] The sole surviving kirtle which has reatined the Mediaeval cut with no back-seam, and with inset gussets at the sides." (sorry, that's the whole sentence, it doesn't lead anywhere!). Ah! There's a picture of a wall-painting on p109 that's dated 1460, the caption says "Peasnat dressed in a sshort white kirtle, and long trousers". This book is _Danske Bonders Dlaededragt_ by Ellen Andersen.Copenhagen: 1960. I have gotten it through ILL, though I found my own edition. It's mostly aimed at 1700 & 1800s, but there are nuggest of earlier info. Hope this helps! -Judy Mitchell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 18 21:51:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA15020 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 21:51:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3J0o2h16283; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 18:50:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3J0o2A24528; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 18:50:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from maynard.mail.mindspring.net (maynard.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.243]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3J0nbA24420 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 18:49:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 1cust176.tnt8.st-louis.mo.da.uu.net ([65.229.122.176] helo=hppav) by maynard.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16yMal-0005SZ-00 for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 20:49:36 -0400 Message-ID: <005b01c1e73c$a55d6560$b07ae541@hppav> From: "Genie" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Subject: [h-cost] waistcoatembroidery. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 19:53:38 -0500 Status: RO Oh my, Bjarne, we are not worthy. ;) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 19 02:36:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA11716 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 02:36:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3J5Z4h29620; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 23:35:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3J5Z3A14528; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 23:35:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com (dl.mixmeister.net [66.210.221.206]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3J5YtA14480 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 23:34:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id ACAC2530116; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 00:35:40 -0500 Message-ID: <002e01c1e763$d75d9ea0$0300a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <000001c1e72c$9d7803b0$6401a8c0@kimathlon> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dating X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 01:34:12 -0400 Status: RO Kim, My guess, 1901-1905... since it looks really fashionable. It is really lovely. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kim Baird" To: Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 6:58 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Dating > > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On > Behalf Of Kendra Van Cleave > Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 10:35 AM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: [h-cost] Dating > > Hello all! > > Can anyone help me date these dresses? They're on the Musee de la Mode > et > du Textile's website, but with no dating or other information (except > for > the date range in the web address). > ********************************** > This one looks like early 20th century to me--look at the puffed-out > tummy and the high waisted back. 1903? > Kim > > 1893-94ish? > http://www.ucad.fr/mmt/chrono/1890-1900/1461.jpg > http://www.ucad.fr/mmt/chrono/1890-1900/1465.jpg > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by plugit.com] > > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by plugit.com] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 19 06:42:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA13803 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 06:42:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3J9f3h06674; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 03:41:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3J9f0A02800; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 03:41:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hirogen.kabelfoon.nl (hirogen.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.69]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3J9e6A02659 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 03:40:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-fp02-173.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.121.173]) by hirogen.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52C2B7E14 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 11:39:59 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3CBFE893.10C08386@kabelfoon.nl> From: Deredere & Owen Iskander X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dating References: <000001c1e72c$9d7803b0$6401a8c0@kimathlon> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 11:51:15 +0200 Status: RO That is beautifull!!! It is not my period but a dress like this make my hands itch. And want to make it my period..:-) Greetings, Deredere Kim Baird wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On > Behalf Of Kendra Van Cleave > Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 10:35 AM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: [h-cost] Dating > > Hello all! > > Can anyone help me date these dresses? They're on the Musee de la Mode > et > du Textile's website, but with no dating or other information (except > for > the date range in the web address). > ********************************** > This one looks like early 20th century to me--look at the puffed-out > tummy and the high waisted back. 1903? > Kim > > 1893-94ish? > http://www.ucad.fr/mmt/chrono/1890-1900/1461.jpg > http://www.ucad.fr/mmt/chrono/1890-1900/1465.jpg > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 19 06:48:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA13817 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 06:48:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3J9l3h06804; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 03:47:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3J9l0A03770; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 03:47:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3J9k5A03587 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 03:46:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KGQU1VSXPS017WE4@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 10:48:35 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk ([158.94.56.3]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KGQU1U3HC4015OV2@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 10:48:31 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Fri, 19 Apr 2002 10:44:45 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Fri, 19 Apr 2002 10:43:56 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.77) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 10:43:49 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: Those white tapes again. In-reply-to: <200204182355.g3INt7A05405@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <9E4DBC42FEE@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 10:43:49 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/holb5.jpg > > (there are what appear to be two pins in this sketch that are > > holding the straps to the bodice. One at the neckline level and one > > at the end of the strap) > Perhaps these are a variation on the straps that hold up both back > and front. This one is a mystery to me. Although I do not > believe there is a pin on the shoulder at the neckline. It looks > more like a charcoal smudge or something. It does not have the > same dimension as the pin on the lower portion. I see three pns there... a fine/thin one on the shoulder, the head and a bit of the shaft of the second (heavier/thicker) one at the corner of the neckline and the (finish) point of the third at the very bottom of the tape. S'what it looks like to me at any rate. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 19 10:00:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA14936 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 10:00:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3JCx2h12031; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 06:59:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3JCx1A11540; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 06:59:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp4.ihug.co.nz (smtp4.ihug.co.nz [203.109.252.5]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3JCwBA11331 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 06:58:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p93-nas5.akl.ihug.co.nz (user) [203.173.209.93] by smtp4.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1 (Debian)) id 16yXxp-0006Ul-00; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 00:58:09 +1200 Message-ID: <002a01c1e7a1$764b93e0$f8c0adcb@user> From: "michaela" To: References: <3CBF320A.9000900@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Subject: [h-cost] the frau is back, re: swiss costume Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 00:54:06 +1200 Status: RO Well I have uploaded the refurbished monstrously huge frazzledfrau. Now I shall find it infinately easier to add new files, update links etc thanks to my handy dandy new system of naming the htm files by the corresponding thumbnail files. And I uploaded a few new holbein sketches which is why I have reposted under this heading. http://frazzledfrau.tripod.com/othergerman.htm Has a subsection called swiss style. Either definately swiss (Holbein, Altdorfer) or looking suspiciously like the style from that area. But without me knowing much about the painter. Thus I shall be doing a spot of research over the next few days. Anyway, the three Holbein sketches are: http://frazzledfrau.tripod.com/1520baselholbein.htm http://frazzledfrau.tripod.com/1520sholbeinbasel.htm http://frazzledfrau.tripod.com/1520sswissholbein.htm Note my remarkably unimaginative file naming. I shall soon be putting proper links to some images, as they are temporariy on my site untill such time as I figure out the best links within museum/gallery sites- in other words I have forgotten in just what huge text files I have them in. michaela _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 19 11:13:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA15340 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 11:13:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3JEA2h15532; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 08:10:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3JEA1A02399; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 08:10:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kumc-scanout.kumc.edu (kumc-scanout.kumc.edu [169.147.166.198]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g3JE9mA02310 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 08:09:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: FROM gatedo.kumc.edu BY kumc-scanout.kumc.edu ; Fri Apr 19 09:09:46 2002 -0500 Received: from KUMC-GATEWAY-DOMAIN-Message_Server by gatedo.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 09:09:46 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 5.5.3.1 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g3JE9mA02310 Subject: [h-cost] waistcoatembroidery Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 09:09:39 -0500 Status: RO Bjarne, this is beautiful!!! Absolutely gorgeous :). And *naturally* you did all the gold lace for the other coat :). I'm going to have to look up that pattern. I have now added a trip to visit Bjarne to my list of things-I-am-going-to-do-if-I-ever-win-the-lottery. Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 19 11:46:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA15438 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 11:46:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3JEj6h18386; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 08:45:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3JEj4A16718; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 08:45:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3JEioA16613 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 08:44:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.133.149.127] (pm4-127.eos.net [205.133.149.127]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA10494 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 10:44:48 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200204182355.g3INt1A05376@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: pregnancies/straps Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 10:37:36 -0400 Status: RO Well, the idea of the white straps being some sort of symbolic or practical garment for pregnancy is very interesting. One of the pictures referenced was of Catherine of Aragon, the queen of England. It ought to be easy enough for someone to check if she was pregnant at the time the picture was painted. She was pregnant rather often, I believe, although she only bore one live child. And of course, with Henry VIII as her husband, she certainly WANTED to be pregnant with that all-important boy! Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 19 12:14:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA15596 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 12:14:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3JFD1h20850; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 09:13:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3JFD0A29753; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 09:13:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mx09.cluster1.charter.net (dc-mx09.cluster0.hsacorp.net [209.225.8.19]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3JFC7A29283 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 09:12:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [66.189.36.255] (HELO [192.168.1.102]) by mx09.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with ESMTP id 2183858 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 11:11:37 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: amandaf@pop.charter.net Message-Id: To: h-costume@indra.com From: sustre@pixelations.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] Titanic-era patterns- opinions? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 11:12:13 -0400 Status: RO Has anyone here tried either the Laughing Moon or the Sense and Sensibility Titanic-ear patterns? If so, I'd really appreciate hearing some opinions about them, and how well they work. They have quite similar lines, so I'm reluctant to get both, but have no way of choosing which one. The pattern review site has neither, unfortunately. I have Laughing Moon's Victorian corset pattern, and like the corset but found the chemise fits me oddly, and I have no experience with S&S's patterns myself. I'm not planning on a real historical recreation necessarily, at least not with this one, but want one or two fancy, pretty dresses to get dressed up in. Thanks in advance! -Amanda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 19 12:38:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA15732 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 12:38:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3JFaCh23060; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 09:36:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3JFa9A11675; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 09:36:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scanmail2.cableone.net (scanmail2.cableone.net [24.116.0.122]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3JFZDA11147 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 09:35:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scanmail2.cableone.net ([10.116.0.122]) by scanmail2.cableone.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Fri, 19 Apr 2002 08:33:11 -0700 Received: from scanmail2.cableone.net [24.116.0.122] by scanmail2.cableone.net (SMTPD32-7.04) id A8B6653800C0; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 08:33:10 -0700 Received: from kimathlon (186-130.farcpe.cableone.net [24.116.186.130]) by mail.cableone.net with SMTP (MailShield v2.04 - WIN32 Jul 17 2001 17:12:42); Fri, 19 Apr 2002 08:33:10 -0600 From: "Kim Baird" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Titanic-era patterns- opinions? Message-ID: <000101c1e7b7$d0828290$6401a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 In-Reply-To: X-SMTP-HELO: kimathlon X-SMTP-MAIL-FROM: kbaird@cableone.net X-SMTP-RCPT-TO: h-costume@indra.com X-SMTP-PEER-INFO: 186-130.farcpe.cableone.net [24.116.186.130] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 10:35:19 -0500 Status: RO I have used several other laughing Moon patterns, and found them to be excellent, and a super value for the price. Sorry, can't comment on the other company, never having tried any. Kim -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of sustre@pixelations.com Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 10:12 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Titanic-era patterns- opinions? Has anyone here tried either the Laughing Moon or the Sense and Sensibility Titanic-ear patterns? If so, I'd really appreciate hearing some opinions about them, and how well they work. They have quite similar lines, so I'm reluctant to get both, but have no way of choosing which one. The pattern review site has neither, unfortunately. I have Laughing Moon's Victorian corset pattern, and like the corset but found the chemise fits me oddly, and I have no experience with S&S's patterns myself. I'm not planning on a real historical recreation necessarily, at least not with this one, but want one or two fancy, pretty dresses to get dressed up in. Thanks in advance! -Amanda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 19 13:38:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA15995 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 13:38:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3JGZ9h28909; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 10:35:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3JGZ2A14735; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 10:35:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3JGYJA14329 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 10:34:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gonzo.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.242] helo=gonzo.psp.pas.earthlink.net) by falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16ybL0-0003LJ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 09:34:18 -0700 Received: (from nobody@localhost) by gonzo.psp.pas.earthlink.net (8.10.2+Sun/8.10.2) id g3JGYHA26233; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 09:34:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Goodman To: "h-costume@indra.com" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: pregnancies/straps Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: 156.41.168.21 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: lithiate@earthlink.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 09:34:17 -0700 Status: RO > > Well, the idea of the white straps being some sort of symbolic or practical > garment for pregnancy is very interesting. One of the pictures referenced > was of Catherine of Aragon, the queen of England. It ought to be easy enough > for someone to check if she was pregnant at the time the picture was > painted. She was pregnant rather often, I believe, although she only bore > one live child. And of course, with Henry VIII as her husband, she certainly > WANTED to be pregnant with that all-important boy! Well, there's one potentially problematic thing about that theory I coughed up last night... One of the portraits that shows the white straps is of Anne Boleyn, dated 1525. *If* we take this to be an accuritely dated portrait that *really* is of Anne, this makes the white straps/pregnancy/fertility thing a bit off. She was *supposedly* still a virgin at this point (or at least was making every attempt to appear such)and the birth of Elizabeth was still 8 years in the future... There's always the chance that this picture isn't of Anne. It's possible it's even of her sister, Mary, who made no secret her looseness. I know that no contemporary portraits have ever been reliably dated as being of Anne, other than the copies that were done later in the century or at the beginning of the 17th century. Sooooo... Another possibility is that these straps aren't linked so much to pregnancy, but maybe are a matron thing. I'm still thinking about that Holbein sketch of the More family... I believe all the ladies in the sketch are married, but Anne Cresacre who was recently married to one of the More boys, isn't wearing the straps, where as the other ladies are. Maybe she was just on the cutting edge of fashion... But, the white straps persist for another 20 years after that sketch was done... Argh. Okay, enough of my rambling. :) Sarah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 19 13:40:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16019 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 13:40:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3JGc1h29270; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 10:38:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3JGc0A16520; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 10:38:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3JGb4A15969 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 10:37:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gonzo.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.242] helo=gonzo.psp.pas.earthlink.net) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16ybNf-00062B-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 09:37:03 -0700 Received: (from nobody@localhost) by gonzo.psp.pas.earthlink.net (8.10.2+Sun/8.10.2) id g3JGamF26592 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 09:36:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Goodman To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: pregnancies/straps Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: 156.41.168.21 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: lithiate@earthlink.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 09:36:48 -0700 Status: RO > > Well, the idea of the white straps being some sort of symbolic or practical > garment for pregnancy is very interesting. One of the pictures referenced > was of Catherine of Aragon, the queen of England. It ought to be easy enough > for someone to check if she was pregnant at the time the picture was > painted. She was pregnant rather often, I believe, although she only bore > one live child. And of course, with Henry VIII as her husband, she certainly > WANTED to be pregnant with that all-important boy! Well, there's one potentially problematic thing about that theory I coughed up last night... One of the portraits that shows the white straps is of Anne Boleyn, dated 1525. *If* we take this to be an accuritely dated portrait that *really* is of Anne, this makes the white straps/pregnancy/fertility thing a bit off. She was *supposedly* still a virgin at this point (or at least was making every attempt to appear such)and the birth of Elizabeth was still 8 years in the future... There's always the chance that this picture isn't of Anne. It's possible it's even of her sister, Mary, who made no secret her looseness. I know that no contemporary portraits have ever been reliably dated as being of Anne, other than the copies that were done later in the century or at the beginning of the 17th century. Sooooo... Another possibility is that these straps aren't linked so much to pregnancy, but maybe are a matron thing. I'm still thinking about that Holbein sketch of the More family... I believe all the ladies in the sketch are married, but Anne Cresacre who was recently married to one of the More boys, isn't wearing the straps, where as the other ladies are. She's also not pregnant and wears a different style of headdress. Maybe she was just on the cutting edge of fashion... But, the white straps persist for another 20 years after that sketch was done... Argh. Okay, enough of my rambling. :) Sarah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 19 13:41:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16028 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 13:41:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3JGe2h29498; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 10:40:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3JGe1A17621; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 10:40:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3JGd6A17117 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 10:39:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gonzo.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.242] helo=gonzo.psp.pas.earthlink.net) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16ybPc-0004lQ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 09:39:04 -0700 Received: (from nobody@localhost) by gonzo.psp.pas.earthlink.net (8.10.2+Sun/8.10.2) id g3JGd4426980 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 09:39:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Goodman To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Re: pregnancies/straps Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: 156.41.168.21 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: lithiate@earthlink.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 09:39:04 -0700 Status: RO Ugh. Sorry for the repeat email. My server is a total spaz sometimes... My appologies. Sarah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 19 15:31:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA16677 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 15:31:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3JIUIh11342; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 12:30:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3JIUEA17734; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 12:30:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3JITwA17561 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 12:29:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comcast.net (pcp670884pcs.indpnd01.mo.comcast.net [68.34.234.170]) by mtaout01.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.3 (built Apr 8 2002)) with ESMTP id <0GUT004QQVDS8B@mtaout01.icomcast.net> for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 14:29:52 -0400 (EDT) From: "Linda J. Thompson" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Message-id: <3CC06295.5030803@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 Subject: [h-cost] pins on tape Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 13:31:49 -0500 Status: RO Ahah, I do see the small one at the very base of the tape. But I am still not sure the one on the shoulder is a pin. Maybe the pin was bent or something, but the 2 small marks do not line up as a pin would if run through and then out the fabric. The only reason I even mention it, is that Holbien was known for his exacting perspective in a time when it was not taken all that seriously at times. Linda T > > I see three pns there... a fine/thin one on the shoulder, the head and > a bit of the shaft of the second (heavier/thicker) one at the corner of > the neckline and the (finish) point of the third at the very bottom of > the tape. > > S'what it looks like to me at any rate. > > > > Teddy > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 19 16:30:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA17068 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 16:30:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3JJTAh16020; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 13:29:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3JJT8A17663; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 13:29:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pd4mo1so.prod.shaw.ca (h24-71-223-10.cg.shawcable.net [24.71.223.10]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3JJSCA17238 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 13:28:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pd2mr1so.prod.shaw.ca (pd2mr1so-ser.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.110]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GUT0044GY2VUT@l-daemon> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 13:28:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pn2ml3so.prod.shaw.ca (pn2ml3so-qfe0.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.121.147]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GUT00F49Y2VHO@l-daemon> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 13:28:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shaw.ca (h24-83-104-177.vf.shawcable.net [24.83.104.177]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GUT00JPPY2UXW@l-daemon> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 13:28:07 -0600 (MDT) From: Shalazar Subject: Re: [h-cost] pins on tape To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <3CC0722B.2C6E187A@shaw.ca> Organization: Shalazar Creations MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en]C-CCK-MCD telus.net_v5.0.1 (Win98; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en References: <3CC06295.5030803@comcast.net> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: shalazar@shaw.ca List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 12:38:20 -0700 Status: RO It actually looks like there are pins on the left hand strap as well, at the bottom and just above the top of the breast. Nan L. -- "Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so." - Douglas Adams (1952-2001) English novelist "Throughout history, it has been the inaction of those who could have acted; the indifference of those who should have known better; the silence of the voice of justice when it mattered most; that has made it possible for evil to triumph." ` -Haile Selassie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 19 17:23:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA17295 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 17:23:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3JKMDh20837; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 14:22:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3JKM2A16047; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 14:22:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3JKL7A15458 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 14:21:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dandy.net (pvil2195.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.237.195]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA11157 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 16:20:59 -0400 Message-ID: <3CC07BF7.9774B445@dandy.net> From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1400's Danish? References: <3CBF68E9.4090604@oldwaylane.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 16:20:07 -0400 Status: RO Hi. I have a book called "Danmark I Fest Og Glaede" It was written in 1935, so no ISBN. A lot of illos in it are wall paintings, as Bjarne said, from church murals or frescos. A group is from Bellinge Kirke, Jetsmark Kirke and Hove Kirke. One, looking 15th Cent., is from Vigersted Kirke, and shows the earliest representation I have seen of a man juggling knives. You might want to try some sites that show Danish Church art. Try some Scandinavian press titles or some art houses. Good Luck, Mike T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 19 20:35:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA18005 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 20:35:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3JNXDh07240; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 17:33:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3JNX0A19247; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 17:33:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f125.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.125]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3JNWvA19209 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 17:32:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 16:32:51 -0700 Received: from 64.123.14.202 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 23:32:51 GMT X-Originating-IP: [64.123.14.202] From: "Mary Temple" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Apr 2002 23:32:51.0949 (UTC) FILETIME=[860661D0:01C1E7FA] Subject: [h-cost] Almost FO: hakama! Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 23:32:51 +0000 Status: RO Almost FO - black hakama for my husband. (They're almost done because I haven't put the hem in - that happens tonight) The worst problem I had was the pleating for the front, but now that I have a apir in front of me, the next pair won't be too bad... Next up: under kosode! (white under kimono) Mary/Katerine _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 19 22:29:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA18343 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 22:29:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3K1S2h12313; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 19:28:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3K1S1A20981; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 19:28:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3K1S0A20969 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 19:28:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from PLUMB01 (bgp01007689bgs.plyntv01.mi.comcast.net [68.41.201.181]) by mtaout04.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.3 (built Apr 8 2002)) with SMTP id <0GUU003FYEQIB1@mtaout04.icomcast.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 21:27:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Steve & Michelle Plumb To: historic costume group Message-id: <0GUU003G0EQIB1@mtaout04.icomcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: PMMail 1.96a For OS/2 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: Normal Subject: [h-cost] 1910s shoe search. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: Steve & Michelle Plumb List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 21:27:40 -0400 Status: RO Hello, all. I have an upcoming wedding to attend in late July, and have my outfit in the works. I like to incorporate the old with the new, and this time I'm taking a stroll in the 1910s. Literally. I'm making a hobble skirt! It's along these lines, but a bit fancier: http://www.pastpatterns.com/5462.html I'm knitting a lace jacket to go over a camisole : http://www.whiteliesdesigns.com/patterns/lcardigans/106.html The jacket yarn is a lovely greyed-down purple cotton, and I plan to make the camisole and skirt in a dove grey rayon. Nice and cool and drapey for a summer wedding. Now, here's the question: I need 1910-style shoes! Any idea where I might find some? Here's what I'm looking for: http://www.centuryinshoes.com/decades/1910/1910.html Either the center left or center right shoe, but I'm leaning toward the center left one. Any ideas? The wedding is July 20, so I have to get things together relatively soon. TIA, Michelle ================================================================================ Steve & Michelle Plumb -- splumb225904MI@comcast.net Plymouth, Michigan USA "Remember: If you can hear the dynamite hissing, you're too close." --Graham Greene as Edgar Montrose in the Red Green Show ================================================================================ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Apr 20 00:15:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA18645 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 00:15:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3K3E4h16325; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 21:14:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3K3E0A15503; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 21:14:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3K3DcA15403 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 21:13:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.34.187]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GUU0081LJMPY4@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 20:13:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1910s shoe search. In-reply-to: <0GUU003G0EQIB1@mtaout04.icomcast.net> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020419195254.04f8f170@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 19:53:50 -0700 Status: RO >Now, here's the question: >I need 1910-style shoes! Any idea where I might find some? >Here's what I'm looking for: >http://www.centuryinshoes.com/decades/1910/1910.html >Either the center left or center right shoe, but I'm leaning >toward the center left one. Thrift stores in California have shoes like the center right one. I see them every once in a while. I'd look there. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Apr 20 01:15:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA18883 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 01:15:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3K4E1h18318; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 22:14:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3K4E0A28419; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 22:14:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3K4D4A28235 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 22:13:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from PLUMB01 (bgp01007689bgs.plyntv01.mi.comcast.net [68.41.201.181]) by mtaout45-02.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.3 (built Apr 8 2002)) with SMTP id <0GUU00CKZMDMDL@mtaout45-02.icomcast.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 00:12:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Steve & Michelle Plumb To: historic costume group Message-id: <0GUU00CL0MDMDL@mtaout45-02.icomcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: PMMail 1.96a For OS/2 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: Normal Subject: [h-cost] Amendment: 1910s shoe search. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: Steve & Michelle Plumb List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 00:12:44 -0400 Status: RO I forgot to mention that I was looking for new shoes, not vintage. My feet are far too big for vintage shoes! No way I'm ever going to cram my 9 wides into a narrow anything. Michelle ================================================================================ Steve & Michelle Plumb -- splumb225904MI@comcast.net Plymouth, Michigan USA "Remember: If you can hear the dynamite hissing, you're too close." --Graham Greene as Edgar Montrose in the Red Green Show ================================================================================ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Apr 20 05:11:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA15059 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 05:11:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3K893h25086; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 02:09:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3K891A12816; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 02:09:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ivsmtp02la.mail2world.com (ivsmtp02la.mail2world.com [66.28.189.73]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3K887A12673 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 02:08:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ivweb05la (unverified [10.1.200.108]) by ivsmtp02la.mail2world.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.6) with ESMTP id for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 01:06:18 -0700 thread-index: AcHoQj/+oHS+WajZQ2ildBTD/8fbNw== Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Titanic-era patterns- opinions? From: "ruiyin" To: Cc: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Titanic-era patterns- opinions? Message-ID: <000201c1e842$400fafe0$6cc8010a@mail2world.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0003_01C1E807.93B592D0" X-Mailer: Microsoft CDO for Exchange 2000 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message Importance: normal Priority: normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 01:06:18 -0700 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C1E807.93B592D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable _______________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE email account at iVillage.com! http://webmail.ivillage.com/=20 <-----Original Message-----> >=20 > From: sustre@pixelations.com > Has anyone here tried either the Laughing Moon or the Sense and=20 > Sensibility Titanic-ear patterns?=20 If you mean S&S Tea gown pattern, I=B4ve used it and was very happy with it. I made some alterations to the pattern as I was using different materials from the recommendations, but all in all it worked very well. The instructions are very clear and there are instructions also online, plus lovely photo gallery to give you a lot of ideas. Highly recommended. Riina ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C1E807.93B592D0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit _______________________________________________________________
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<-----Original Message----->
>
> From: sustre@pixelations.com
> Has anyone here tried either the Laughing Moon or the Sense and
> Sensibility Titanic-ear patterns?

If you mean S&S Tea gown pattern, I´ve used it and was very happy with it. I made some alterations to the pattern as I was using different materials from the recommendations, but all in all it worked very well. The instructions are very clear and there are instructions also online, plus lovely photo gallery to give you a lot of ideas. Highly recommended.

Riina ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C1E807.93B592D0-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Apr 20 06:21:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA15206 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 06:21:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3K9K2h26669; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 03:20:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3K9K1A22397; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 03:20:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3K9JCA22030 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 03:19:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.34.187]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GUV001L50JYZ9@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 02:19:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] the frau is back, re: swiss costume In-reply-to: <002a01c1e7a1$764b93e0$f8c0adcb@user> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020420021737.051397a0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <3CBF320A.9000900@comcast.net> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 02:19:05 -0700 Status: RO Davenport's costume book has a very few you don't have. You might look in there, because it gives where the originals are located. >Well I have uploaded the refurbished monstrously huge frazzledfrau. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Apr 20 13:26:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17054 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 13:26:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3KGP4h08502; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 10:25:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3KGP1A11861; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 10:25:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3KGOUA11733 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 10:24:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=laptop) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16yxf3-00013p-00; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 09:24:29 -0700 From: "Saragrace knauf" To: Cc: "'michaela'" Organization: PII Message-ID: <002b01c1e886$c9221400$6501a8c0@phoenix.speedchoice.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Importance: Normal Subject: [h-cost] FW: Frazzeled Frau Web mistress? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 09:16:53 -0700 Status: RO Michaela-I didn't realize the Frazzled Frau was yours. I just love the name. I contacted Drea a few months ago to find out if she knew your name. Is there a reason you don't have a contact on the site?? Anyway, I wanted to ask you about a doll picture you had-I don't see it now, but some of your pages aren't loading for me. (Not positive, but some are and I have a very fast connection and computer-could there be something wrong?) The question and link (broken?) is below. Thanks for a wonderful site! -----Original Message----- From: Saragrace knauf [mailto:saragrace@earthlink.net] Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 9:10 AM To: aleed Subject: RE: Frazzeled Frau Web mistress? I wondered where she had gotten this picture of a doll. I wondered if it was a photo of a doll or a drawing-it is a little hard to tell. Hope you can help-thanks http://frazzledfrau.tripod.com/image97.htm **-----Original Message----- **From: aleed [mailto:aleed@dnaco.net] **Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 1:21 PM **To: Saragrace Knauf **Subject: Re: Frazzeled Frau Web mistress? ** ** ** **Hm, no, I don't. But I have lots of pics of German stuff--which picture **do you have a question about? ** **Thanks, ** **Drea ** **On Mon, 4 Feb 2002, Saragrace Knauf wrote: ** **> Drea, do you know how to contact the lady (I assume) who owns the **> Frazzeled Frau website? I don't see a contact and would like to ask her **> a question about one of her pictures. **> **> Thanks, **> **> Saragrace **> ** ** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Apr 20 13:51:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17233 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 13:51:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3KGo2h09633; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 10:50:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3KGo1A17504; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 10:50:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3KGn5A17333 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 10:49:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=laptop) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16yy2q-0006ZX-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 09:49:04 -0700 From: "Saragrace knauf" To: Organization: PII Message-ID: <004a01c1e88a$38629440$6501a8c0@phoenix.speedchoice.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <064901c1e5d2$bfb83d60$325d4ed5@pavilion> Subject: [h-cost] Period Hats Class in Phoenix, AZ Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 09:41:23 -0700 Status: RO I should have thought about this sooner, but Nola Yergen and I will be teaching a hat class tomorrow in central Phoenix, AZ if there is anyone interested. Nola will be teaching the Liripipe hood and a swallow tail traveling hat. I will be teaching the "Flemmish Bonnet" straw bending hat, the caul, and attifet. Sorry about the short notice. If you can't make it this time and are interested in future classes (they go on all the time), feel free to contact me off list. Saragrace _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Apr 20 14:22:15 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17420 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 14:22:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3KHL2h10939; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 11:21:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3KHL1A24634; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 11:21:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web14005.mail.yahoo.com (web14005.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.121]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g3KHKCA24445 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 11:20:12 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020420172011.87889.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [206.148.69.32] by web14005.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 10:20:11 PDT From: Cin To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <004a01c1e88a$38629440$6501a8c0@phoenix.speedchoice.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Hamburg Museum catalog Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 10:20:11 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO Bjarne (and others who were interested), I've finally opened the moving boxes & found the Hamburg catalog I was talking about... oh, maybe 6 months ago. The catalog is "Voila: Glanzstuchke historisher Moden 1750-1960". It's billed as "ein Mode-Streifzug durch das Musem fur Kunst und Gewerbe Hamburg". Hope that gets you enough info to hunt down a new costume collection on your next trip to Hamburg. Bon voyage! --cin (formerly Cynthia in Tokyo) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more http://games.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Apr 20 15:33:16 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA17785 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 15:33:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3KIW1h14119; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 12:32:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3KIW0A11245; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 12:32:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fepF.post.tele.dk (fepF.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.135]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3KIVGA11079 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 12:31:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from post12.tele.dk ([62.243.47.241]) by fepF.post.tele.dk (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20020420183114.CLEK16199.fepF.post.tele.dk@post12.tele.dk> for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 20:31:14 +0200 Message-ID: <3CC1B426.2542E9B0@post12.tele.dk> From: Leif Drews X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hamburg Museum catalog References: <20020420172011.87889.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 20:32:06 +0200 Status: RO Dear Cynthia Ohhhhh thanks a lot, i was really glad to hear this, i must go soon! Bye the way i go to London next month, and i wondered if there was more to go to than the exhibit with royal wedding dresses trough 100 years at Kensington Palace? Thanks again Bjarne Cin wrote: > Bjarne (and others who were interested), > I've finally opened the moving boxes & found the Hamburg catalog I was talking > about... oh, maybe 6 months ago. The catalog is "Voila: Glanzstuchke > historisher Moden 1750-1960". It's billed as "ein Mode-Streifzug durch das > Musem fur Kunst und Gewerbe Hamburg". > > Hope that gets you enough info to hunt down a new costume collection on your > next trip to Hamburg. Bon voyage! > > --cin > (formerly Cynthia in Tokyo) > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more > http://games.yahoo.com/ > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Leif Drews boulevard 5, 3 th 1635 København V Bjarne Drews boulevard 5,3.th 1635 København V tlf. 35 37 13 70 My new domain name: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk Homepage: http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/~DeeDee_Revia/1index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Apr 20 17:33:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA18325 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 17:33:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3KKW8h19270; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 14:32:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3KKW2A08168; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 14:32:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3KKVeA08070 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 14:31:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.34.187]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GUV003BLVOQGU@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 13:31:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] the frau is back, re: swiss costume In-reply-to: <002a01c1e7a1$764b93e0$f8c0adcb@user> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020420132547.04ffba00@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <3CBF320A.9000900@comcast.net> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 13:31:32 -0700 Status: RO >And I uploaded a few new Holbein sketches Holbein did a book, called 'The Dance of Death' in it's Dover reprint (ISBN 0-486-22804-5), where all the woodcuts were done between 1523-26 when he lived in Basel, Switzerland. There are costumes for men, women, the rich, the poor, the elderly, the young, church men and women, and the military in it. And lots of nice skeletons too. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Apr 20 22:37:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA19452 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 22:37:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3L1aAh00862; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 19:36:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3L1a1A14487; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 19:36:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp1.ihug.co.nz (smtp1.ihug.co.nz [203.109.252.7]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3L1ZsA14453 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 19:35:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p549-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (user) [203.173.194.41] by smtp1.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1 (Debian)) id 16z6Gd-0001yd-00; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 13:35:52 +1200 Message-ID: <001d01c1e8d4$75b82e00$29c2adcb@user> From: "michaela" To: References: <002b01c1e886$c9221400$6501a8c0@phoenix.speedchoice.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] FW: Frazzeled Frau Web mistress? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 13:32:50 +1200 Status: RO Hi:) > Michaela-I didn't realize the Frazzled Frau was yours. I just love the > name. I contacted Drea a few months ago to find out if she knew your > name. Is there a reason you don't have a contact on the site?? Yeah it's mine, I just realised last night that I haven't got any contact info.. it wasn't really anything other than totally forgetting to put it up;) I got the name after seeing one too many portraits where the woman looked stunned as a deer caught in the headlights of an on coming truck. it's an affectionate but humourous homage to all the woman painted at the time:). I'm getting my introduction and contact page written.. as I try and figure out just what to write;) > I wanted to ask you about a doll picture you had-I don't see it now, but > some of your pages aren't loading for me. (Not positive, but some are > and I have a very fast connection and computer-could there be something > wrong?) The question and link (broken?) is below. Thanks for a > wonderful site! Ahh yes.. I don't think I have her link up right now. She should be listed on the other countries page.. but with my recent total overhaul, I've dropped a few images in advertently. She is now on page: http://frazzledfrau.tripod.com/1600doll.htm She is a real doll, and I did find a link to her at the museum site she came from.. I'll dig around in old posts to see if I have a nice direct link. She's an automaton, and from around 1600. Absolutely stunning yellow brocade gown with silver and red trimming. http://www.khm.at/system2E.html?/staticE/page1808.html The book I found her in said she was italian, but the museum says spin.. so it'll probably be the latter;) If the links aren't working at my site and you are using imagexyz.htm links, then that's because of the new file structure:). I found it impossible to update using the old system (a relic of using arles thumbnail/html generater). Now I can just use the thumbnail/image file name and can keep track when links change etc. However I have had some problems with Ws_ftp and being disconnected a number of times while uploading. So if any new links are broken I'll fix them asap. Now I have a *huge* number of new files to link after spending several hours over at bildindex.de. The single largest collection of german art *anywhere* on the net. I have found you can direct link to the images so that makes things easier, as the pages generated as not able to be linked to. Anyway, I'm just gloating over my find of real seed perls, 11" strand for less than $US1 :D lovely lovely ones. And they aren't cultured, they are irregularly shaped, but nothing like those rice crispie ones. They look just the same as seed pearls seen in antique jewelery. So now I have to decide what to do with them:) What ever I do, it will be as authentic as I can make it:). michaela _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Apr 20 22:41:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA19469 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 22:41:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3L1e2h01210; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 19:40:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3L1e1A15615; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 19:40:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp1.ihug.co.nz (smtp1.ihug.co.nz [203.109.252.7]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3L1d6A15227 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 19:39:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p549-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (user) [203.173.194.41] by smtp1.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1 (Debian)) id 16z6Jk-000244-00; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 13:39:04 +1200 Message-ID: <002301c1e8d4$e887a8c0$29c2adcb@user> From: "michaela" To: References: <3CBF320A.9000900@comcast.net> <4.3.1.2.20020420132547.04ffba00@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] the frau is back, re: swiss costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 13:36:06 +1200 Status: RO > Holbein did a book, called 'The Dance of Death' in it's Dover reprint (ISBN > 0-486-22804-5), where all the woodcuts were done between 1523-26 when he > lived in Basel, Switzerland. There are costumes for men, women, the rich, > the poor, the elderly, the young, church men and women, and the military in > it. And lots of nice skeletons too. lol! Skeletons.. heheh, thanks I'll have to order the book:). I love how Dover repints all these books.. and so much more cheaply than most other companies:) michaela _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Apr 20 23:06:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA19620 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 23:06:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3L252h02672; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 20:05:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3L251A21352; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 20:05:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3L23rA21065 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 20:03:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=laptop) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16z6hg-0002iy-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 19:03:49 -0700 From: "Saragrace knauf" To: Organization: PII Message-ID: <01a101c1e8d7$37904920$6501a8c0@phoenix.speedchoice.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <001d01c1e8d4$75b82e00$29c2adcb@user> Subject: [h-cost] Historic doll on the Frazzled Frau site!! SOoOoOoO Cooool! Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 18:52:36 -0700 Status: RO WOW! I was going to ask you what you meant by automaton, but now I know!! I didn't think they they were doing that sort of thing back then, but once I thought about it, they were making 'regular' clocks by then......so sheesh. I am still impressed!! Thank you very much. I can't wait to share it with my doll group!! http://www.khm.at/system2E.html?/staticE/page1808.html I just have to get my period doll up. I have three finished objects that I need to get on my site. Accck, my site looks so horrible right now, but no time to fix!! **-----Original Message----- **From: h-costume-admin@indra.com **[mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of michaela **Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 6:33 PM **To: h-costume@indra.com **Subject: Re: [h-cost] FW: Frazzeled Frau Web mistress? ** ** **Hi:) ** **> Michaela-I didn't realize the Frazzled Frau was yours. I just love **> the name. I contacted Drea a few months ago to find out if **she knew **> your name. Is there a reason you don't have a contact on the site?? ** **Yeah it's mine, I just realised last night that I haven't got **any contact info.. it wasn't really anything other than **totally forgetting to put it **up;) ** **I got the name after seeing one too many portraits where the **woman looked stunned as a deer caught in the headlights of an **on coming truck. it's an affectionate but humourous homage to **all the woman painted at the time:). ** **I'm getting my introduction and contact page written.. as I **try and figure out just what to write;) ** **> I wanted to ask you about a doll picture you had-I don't **see it now, **> but some of your pages aren't loading for me. (Not **positive, but some **> are and I have a very fast connection and computer-could there be **> something **> wrong?) The question and link (broken?) is below. Thanks for a **> wonderful site! ** **Ahh yes.. I don't think I have her link up right now. She **should be listed on the other countries page.. but with my **recent total overhaul, I've dropped a few images in advertently. ** **She is now on page: **http://frazzledfrau.tripod.com/1600doll.htm **She is a real doll, and I did find a link to her at the **museum site she came from.. I'll dig around in old posts to **see if I have a nice direct link. She's an automaton, and **from around 1600. Absolutely stunning yellow brocade gown **with silver and red trimming. **http://www.khm.at/system2E.html?/staticE/page1808.html ** **The **book I found her in said she was italian, but the museum says **spin.. so it'll probably be the latter;) ** **If the links aren't working at my site and you are using **imagexyz.htm links, then that's because of the new file **structure:). I found it impossible to update using the old **system (a relic of using arles thumbnail/html generater). Now **I can just use the thumbnail/image file name and can keep **track when links change etc. ** **However I have had some problems with Ws_ftp and being **disconnected a number of times while uploading. So if any new **links are broken I'll fix them asap. ** **Now I have a *huge* number of new files to link after **spending several hours over at bildindex.de. The single **largest collection of german art *anywhere* on the net. I **have found you can direct link to the images so that makes **things easier, as the pages generated as not able to be linked to. ** **Anyway, I'm just gloating over my find of real seed perls, **11" strand for less than $US1 :D lovely lovely ones. And they **aren't cultured, they are irregularly shaped, but nothing **like those rice crispie ones. They look just the same as seed **pearls seen in antique jewelery. So now I have to decide what **to do with them:) What ever I do, it will be as authentic as **I can make it:). ** **michaela ** ** **_______________________________________________ **h-costume mailing list **h-costume@mail.indra.com **http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Apr 21 00:13:10 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA19930 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 00:13:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3L3C2h05176; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 21:12:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3L3C0A05232; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 21:12:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3L3BSA05133 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 21:11:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) id UAA24294 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 20:30:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200204210330.UAA24294@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] FW: Frazzeled Frau Web mistress? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 20:30:04 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO Michaela wrote: > Anyway, I'm just gloating over my find of real seed perls, 11" strand for > less than $US1 :D lovely lovely ones. And they aren't cultured, they are > irregularly shaped, but nothing like those rice crispie ones. They look just > the same as seed pearls seen in antique jewelery. So now I have to decide > what to do with them:) What ever I do, it will be as authentic as I can make > it:). Okay, give. Where'd you find them? I can find 1.5-2mm almost-round pearls, but at about 10 times the price. I'm always on the lookout for new bead sources. At that price, you got your pearls cheaper than I pay for japanese seed beads. Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Apr 21 00:27:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA19978 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 00:27:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3L3Q2h05628; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 21:26:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3L3Q0A08063; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 21:26:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp4.ihug.co.nz (smtp4.ihug.co.nz [203.109.252.5]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3L3PtA08038 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 21:25:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p549-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (user) [203.173.194.41] by smtp4.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1 (Debian)) id 16z7z6-0001Ux-00; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 15:25:53 +1200 Message-ID: <001401c1e8e3$d5870360$29c2adcb@user> From: "michaela" To: References: <200204210330.UAA24294@gw.retro.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] FW: Frazzeled Frau Web mistress? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 15:22:55 +1200 Status: RO > Okay, give. Where'd you find them? I can find 1.5-2mm almost-round > pearls, but at about 10 times the price. I'm always on the lookout for > new bead sources. At that price, you got your pearls cheaper than I > pay for japanese seed beads. Unfortunately it was a one off. I found them in a 2nd hand store. This store really doesn't know what it's doing at times.. so some things are ridiculously overpriced, but just occasionally the reverse is true. They scream Indian, so I think they must have been with a lot of sarees etc (they do have the occasional stunner, and I have as many of them as I can;) ) and they just didn't realise they were the real thing. I did scan them as they were, as I've just strung them all on some filament til I can figure out what to do with them. I'm thinking I can also do something with the metal base too. They look some what like the tops of salt shakers. I'll either rebead them with glass beads, or use them as some other decoration as is. Oooh, I could make beaded flowers with them... Sorry... but maybe you could sourse some indian ones? I don't know if they'd be cheaper though... michaela _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Apr 21 00:34:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA20006 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 00:34:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3L3X1h05947; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 21:33:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3L3X0A09537; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 21:33:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp4.ihug.co.nz (smtp4.ihug.co.nz [203.109.252.5]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3L3WGA09365 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 21:32:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p549-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (user) [203.173.194.41] by smtp4.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1 (Debian)) id 16z85E-0001bl-00; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 15:32:12 +1200 Message-ID: <001501c1e8e4$b7d10180$29c2adcb@user> From: "michaela" To: References: <01a101c1e8d7$37904920$6501a8c0@phoenix.speedchoice.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Historic doll on the Frazzled Frau site!! SOoOoOoO Cooool! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 15:29:16 +1200 Status: RO She is really rather special isn't she:). I wish I could recall what book I found her in. It might well have been a book in another city I lived in for a time. > http://www.khm.at/system2E.html?/staticE/page1808.html > I just have to get my period doll up. I have three finished objects > that I need to get on my site. Accck, my site looks so horrible right > now, but no time to fix!! Heheh, I know how you feel;). I've just been inspired to redo my recital.tripod.com site. I want to get rid of the black background, but keep the pale text (easier on the eyes than black text on white background.) Oh, I have some patterns for wood turned 18th C dolls. I have been so tempted to make them.. but I can't get my hands on a lathe.. and I will not be able to hand carve them with my hands the way they are. I have a stack of Doll Reader and other doll magazines that I still look at. And of course The Paris Collection, patterns for 19thC parisiennes.... sigh. Too many hobbies and I don't spend enough time on any of them to get really good at them. michaela _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Apr 21 01:24:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA20153 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 01:24:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3L4N2h07734; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 22:23:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3L4N1A19403; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 22:23:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3L4MfA19330 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 22:22:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA14898 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 00:43:07 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] Photos from GFD workshop Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 00:43:07 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO Some of you may remember that I did a Gothic Fitted Dress workshop last summer in Boise, Idaho. (In fact, some of you were there.) There are now some photos from the workshop on the web page of the SCA group that sponsored it. There seems to be some problem with some of the photos (both in quality and placement), but apparently this is only evident on some people's systems, including mine :-( I know nothing about web page building, but if any of you see the problems, please drop me a note and tell me what browser you're using, and perhaps we'll find a pattern. Better yet, if you've seen these particular problems and know what to do about them, please email me offlist and I'll pass your advice to the people in charge. You can find the pages at: www.barony-of-arnhold.org/COMSTUMING.htm Follow the link to the Gothic Fitted Dress Seminar. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Apr 21 05:53:16 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA21724 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 05:53:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3L8q8h15064; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 02:52:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3L8q0A08030; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 02:52:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3L8pKA07910 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 02:51:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.34.187]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GUW00573TXI7G@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 01:51:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] the frau is back, re: swiss costume In-reply-to: <002301c1e8d4$e887a8c0$29c2adcb@user> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020420185415.04fb2a40@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <3CBF320A.9000900@comcast.net> <4.3.1.2.20020420132547.04ffba00@mail.frys.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 18:56:19 -0700 Status: RO > > Holbein did a book, called 'The Dance of Death' in it's Dover reprint >(ISBN > 0-486-22804-5), where all the woodcuts were done between 1523-26 >when he > > lived in Basel, Switzerland. There are costumes for men, women, the rich, > > the poor, the elderly, the young, church men and women, and the military >in > > it. And lots of nice skeletons too. > >lol! Skeletons.. heheh, thanks I'll have to order the book:). I love how >Dover repints all these books.. and so much more cheaply than most other >companies:) I think their business is reprinting things which are way out of print. I hear that collectors don't like this, but those of us who just want reading copies love it. This particular Dover reprint is thin, and comparatively cheap. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Apr 21 06:25:16 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA21806 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 06:25:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3L9O1h15674; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 03:24:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3L9O0A10799; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 03:24:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3L9NiA10753 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 03:23:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.34.187]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GUW005Y8VFI89@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 02:23:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Historic doll on the Frazzled Frau site!! SOoOoOoO Cooool! In-reply-to: <001501c1e8e4$b7d10180$29c2adcb@user> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020421015452.00c13100@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <01a101c1e8d7$37904920$6501a8c0@phoenix.speedchoice.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 01:55:46 -0700 Status: RO >Oh, I have some patterns for wood turned 18th C dolls. I have been so >tempted to make them.. but I can't get my hands on a lathe.. and I will not >be able to hand carve them with my hands the way they are. You may not be able to do it even with a lathe, but Dremmel makes (or used to make)a good one. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Apr 21 07:04:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA22126 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 07:04:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3LA32h16306; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 04:03:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3LA30A16546; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 04:03:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta06-svc.ntlworld.com (mta06-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.46]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3LA2vA16529 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 04:02:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from master ([62.255.179.129]) by mta06-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020421100256.KCNL20036.mta06-svc.ntlworld.com@master> for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 11:02:56 +0100 From: "Jane Williams" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] visiting London Message-ID: <3CC29C62.1866.25DAA7@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3CC1B426.2542E9B0@post12.tele.dk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.01) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: jane@williams.nildram.co.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 11:02:58 +0100 Status: RO On 20 Apr 2002 at 20:32, Leif Drews wrote: > Bye the way i go to London next month, and i wondered if there was more to go to > than the exhibit with royal wedding dresses trough 100 years at Kensington Palace? I take it you know about the Victoria & Albert museum? http://www.vam.ac.uk/ And of course the British Museum is always fun http://www.thebritishmuseum.ac.uk/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Apr 21 07:18:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA22159 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 07:18:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3LAH0h16601; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 04:17:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3LAH0A18762; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 04:17:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtpgate.suscom.net (smtp.suscom.net [64.78.119.252]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3LAGAA18629 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 04:16:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailhost.suscom.net (pop.suscom.net [64.78.119.253]) by smtpgate.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA52210EF99 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 06:12:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from yourczpl0pp1h9 (ip158.97.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.158]) by mailhost.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 9E3453A8027 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 06:14:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00ac01c1e91d$3bc0d0a0$9e614e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photos from GFD workshop MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 06:13:46 -0400 Status: RO Robin, thank you for the link to the pics. For some reason, I thought you needed a full-length mock up for this dress--good to know I don't! (Now, to find someone to help me do the fitting..) The burgundy silk dress is absolutely gorgeous! The photos came up fine for me. (I'm using the latest version of IE, on a Windows XP system.) Dianne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Netherton" To: "Historic Costume List" Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 1:43 AM Subject: [h-cost] Photos from GFD workshop > > Some of you may remember that I did a Gothic Fitted Dress workshop last > summer in Boise, Idaho. (In fact, some of you were there.) There are now > some photos from the workshop on the web page of the SCA group that > sponsored it. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Apr 21 10:21:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA26755 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 10:21:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3LDK5h21155; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 07:20:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3LDK1A25834; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 07:20:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3IHOVA00268 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 11:24:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from seams-to-be.com (pcp670884pcs.indpnd01.mo.comcast.net [68.34.234.170]) by mtaout45-01.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built Feb 6 2002)) with ESMTP id <0GUR00BK5XOEMK@mtaout45-01.icomcast.net> for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 13:24:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Seamstress To: h-costume@net.indra.com Message-id: <3CBF01CB.70708@seams-to-be.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 Subject: [h-cost] re: Those white tapes Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 12:26:35 -0500 Status: RO Sarah, wonderful sources, thank you. (wish I had more free time to cruise the net, isn't it a marvelous invention. Have now bookmarked all of the sites for future reference!) A pair of suspenders is actually what started me on this train of thought. They come straight up the front, and cross over each other in the back. Ok, on to the portraits you presented. (I really should be working but this is more fun) Oh and may I say at this point that I in no way am implying that the tapes could not be something else. These are simply my observations and why I believe what I do. IMHO of course.... And in no way imply others are wrong in their views....And since I only have access to reproductions on the computer, there are tons of information missed in these views. That said... onward >Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 12:30:37 -0700 >From: Sarah Goodman >Hi Linda, >That theory has been brought up before and I must say that I thought this was the case as well, until I >looked good and hard at the Holbein sketch and decided that the straps around the shoulders and the >strap holding up the front of the skirt aren't the same >thing. Numerous other people have reached this conclusion also. The upper and lower views of the tapes are not the same tape in the Holbein I refer too? The presentation in the picture is at differing angles and could be the same tape, the artist is very strong on perspective. (Not saying it is true or not, just working my side of the debate) :D Another thought is perhaps there are more than one style of tapes. One style to hold the back up (pin to the front, over the shoulder and down to the back of the skirt) . One style to hold the front up. (comes from front of skirt, wraps around back and to the other side of front of skirt.) And perhaps one style that does both at the same time. http://www.abcgallery.com/H/holbein/holbein21.html I would have to say that this portrait does not present enough information to say one way or the other on their use. It may be that when the tapes are not in use, it was simply a matter of leaving them on to avoid the time of reapplying them as the day progressed. I just cannot imagine what their decorative purpose would be. http://www.marquise.de/1500/pics/1530_2.shtml This shows the straps seemingly wrapping around to the back. Which could support my theory. Or none of it at all. :) http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/boleyn1525.jpg Not enough picture to say much, other than they do seem to curve towards the sides of the bodice tightly, which can imply tension of some sort. (Perhaps those pins in the other portrait? Or skirts attached in the back?) http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/dauncey.jpg The angle of the tape could easily support what I believe. The tape obviously curves downward and could be going towards the back under the arm. The upper portion of the tape is coming from the back shoulder area from the direction that implies it is coming from the center line of the torso. (Since we can not see the back, this could simply imply that it drapes across the back neck and over the other shoulder also.) But it could fit within my theory. http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/cecilia.jpg >(this is interesting because the straps appear to terminate a little above waist level) This could also simply be the tape might be tucked towards the back, or pulled to the back to get it out of the way when not in use (folded back at that point?). Or they could be one of the styles I theorized of at the beginnning. (theorized, sounds so much better than "made up". :D since this isn't a science, maybe I should say I "speculated" ) http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/henegham.jpg Would seem that the tapes serve no obvious purpose, but perhaps she was taking a moment to sit for the artist on her way to do other duties, so her skirts are actually taped up in the front at the moment and that is why the tape seems to go straight down (out of the line of view). http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/holb5.jpg >(there are what appear to be two pins in this sketch that are holding the straps to the bodice. One at >the neckline leve and one at the end of the strap) Perhaps these are a variation on the straps that hold up both back and front. This one is a mystery to me. Although I do not believe there is a pin on the shoulder at the neckline. It looks more like a charcoal smudge or something. It does not have the same dimension as the pin on the lower portion. http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/moregirls.jpg Throwing this portrait completely out of the debate. It is not a portrait from the time period we are discussing. The original sketch yes, but not this picture. http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/roper.jpg I love the detail on that blackwork.... wow... Can not say one way or the other on what these straps do, simply not enough information. However they are there, and seem to go down and under the arm with some tension on them? (Tension meaning that they are firmly against the body in some manner) http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/margaret.jpg >(wide straps) When I saw this picture years ago (before I knew or even cared about the tapes) I thought this was a kercheif that was folded back. And if you look at the angle of the drape it is not going towards the sides, but towards the front. Not sure these are even the tapes we have been discussing? But if they were tapes, then they could be holding up the front skirt which would explain the angle ( see henegham above) http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/english.jpg >(the Holbein you mentioned) Refer to my original post. http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/backsketch.jpg >(the other Holbein sketch that gets refered to quite a bit. I'm inclined to believe that the thick bands at >the back that form a "V" are probably the shoulder straps viewed from behind) I feel that the "V" we are seeing in the back is not the tapes, but simply a continuation of the band that edges the opening of the neckline. And with the exception of that one faint line in the front, I can't see any tapes in evidence. Look closely at the corner of the neckline in the front, where it turns up towards the shoulder. The horizontal line of the front seems to be in front of the vertical line going up. And to the right of that the chain obscures the view too much to say if that is a tape coming up, or simply an errant line in the sketch. >Now, as far as I've ever been able to tell, English women are the only ones who are depicted wearing >these straps. I'd love to hear if anyone else has a lead on women from other countries sporting the >straps. Also, they are around for a very short space of time, from the 1520's the early 1540's if the >portraits are to be believed as dated accuritely. The dating of the straps. Didn't the style of gown begin to change around the 1540's? From some of the protraiture (the few I have seen in the few books I have) that show the full length views, I believe the gowns stopped having folds of fabric dragging the ground as much. At least they do not seem to be dragging as extravagantly as Holbien sketches of full views show. So if this is the case (have not even looked into when the lengths began to change), then perhaps the tapes dissapeared simply because they were no longer needed? The portrait of Catherine Parr comes to mind? Her gown stops at the floor. http://www.marquise.de/1500/pics/1545_3.shtml >I've heard the argument that these might be devotional based upon the number of catholic ladies wearing >them, which is an interesting theory. I'm not sure I agree with it, though. From my experience in the Catholic church, once they start a tradition, it never gets dropped. (The reason the host was served straight to the tongue for centuries, was way way way back, people would horde it and keep it as a holy object instead of eating it, which defeated the purpose of the ceremony. This did not get changed until the last century when hygiene became an issue.) >My own theory that is beginning to form is that they are there to keep >the shoulders of the bodice on the body... But that's certainly up for debate. Any thoughts? >Sarah In what manner would the straps be attached to the shoulders/sleeves? ***Combining another response to this since it is the same thread*** Hello AlbertCat@aol.com, I believe the woman is actually holding up her kirtle, not the gown. (She seems to have 3 skirted items on). If you look to the angle of the fabric, and the way it drapes at the back then follow the line up, you can see through the gap at the arm that her skirts are above the waist by more than a few inches and it is fairly full at that. She may be supporting the gown at the sides, but for her skirts to be that high in the back it is unlikely that just holding them low at the sides, as it appears, would raise the back that high. I have seen many women with heavy to medium weight gowns on at fair, and none of them are able to get the backs up that high when there is that much fabric to deal with, without having them held up high at the sides. And the positioning of her one hand that we can see, does not support this. Did they commonly wear bumrolls during the 20's to 40's? Maybe that is where the height comes from? Curiious to see how many English portraits from this time show NO tapes? Does anyone know? And where the tapes actually start on the sides I believe is too shadowed to say whether they come from the back or originate at that spot? Thank you for all of your input. And I really enjoyed it! > > From: AlbertCat@aol.com > In a message dated 4/17/2002 3:32:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >>http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/english.jpg (the Holbein you mentioned) >> > > Looking at this the arrangement to me seems to be thus: > The straps start on either side front, it looks like at the slightly above > waist level you mentioned earlier...held by those pins perhaps? They travel > over the shoulders, cross in back and come to the front to hold up the FRONT > of the gown. The sash is placed over the pulled up front but not it seems > over the straps as they come from the back around the sides. > The back drape is entirely due to the woman holding up the sides of her > skirts. If she dropped the fabric, the back of the skirts would fall smoothly > to the ground. The mysterious straps hold nothing up in back. > > --part1_1a0.df5e22.29ef7749_boundary > Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > In a message dated 4/17/2002 3:32:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lithiate@earthlink.net writes: >
>
>
http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/english.jpg (the Holbein you mentioned) >
>
>
Looking at this the arrangement to me seems to be thus: >
The straps start on either side front, it looks like at the slightly above waist level you mentioned earlier...held by those pins perhaps? They travel over the shoulders, cross in back and come to the front to hold up the FRONT of the gown. The sash is placed over the pulled up front but not it seems over the straps as they come from the back around the sides. >
The back drape is entirely due to the woman holding up the sides of her skirts. If she dropped the fabric, the back of the skirts would fall smoothly to the ground. The mysterious straps hold nothing up in back. > > --part1_1a0.df5e22.29ef7749_boundary-- > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Apr 21 10:21:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA26760 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 10:21:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3LDKSh21169; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 07:20:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3LDKSA25894; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 07:20:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com (dl.mixmeister.net [66.210.221.206]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3J7R8A09277 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 01:27:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A6F83DE0114; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 02:27:52 -0500 Message-ID: <012c01c1e773$7db2a700$0300a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Newsletter" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] May 2002 Classes Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 03:26:14 -0400 Status: RO Just a reminder of the classes starting in May at the Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com : *** Making a Late 18th Century Wardrobe: Ladies Strapless Stays *** Elizabethan Men's Costumes *** Making a Mystical Fairy Costume *** History of Early Anglo Saxons' Costume *** Sentimental Journey: Make Your Own 1940s Swing Dress *** Clone Yourself: Making A Paper Tape Dressform Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by plugit.com] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Apr 21 14:08:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA27555 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 14:08:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3LH74h29048; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 11:07:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3LH70A16495; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 11:07:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3LH6PA16388 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 11:06:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dandy.net (pvil2112.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.237.112]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17629 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 13:06:08 -0400 Message-ID: <3CC2F149.DB4C5524@dandy.net> From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gable headdress, what are those? References: <3CBF0329.60200@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 13:05:13 -0400 Status: RO Hi. It is possible that these are decorative finishes to the place where the wire in the headdress ends, and is either bent back on itself or ended with a blob of lead. There are a few existing wire assemblies from this period in, I believe, the Museum of London. I can't remember which catalog I saw them in right now, but I'll post the info when I find it. Mike T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Apr 21 15:10:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA27809 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 15:10:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3LI92h02085; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 12:09:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3LI91A29839; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 12:09:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mx05.cluster1.charter.net (dc-mx05.cluster0.hsacorp.net [209.225.8.15]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3LI88A29667 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 12:08:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [66.189.36.255] (HELO [192.168.1.102]) by mx05.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with ESMTP id 2344246 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 14:07:56 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: amandaf@pop.charter.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000201c1e842$400fafe0$6cc8010a@mail2world.com> References: <000201c1e842$400fafe0$6cc8010a@mail2world.com> To: h-costume@indra.com From: sustre@pixelations.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Titanic-era patterns- opinions? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 14:08:13 -0400 Status: RO Thanks for the input! I'm still torn- the laughing Moon one seems to have more options, but the S&S Tea Dress is so tempting to do with colored silk chiffon, now that I'm getting started dyeing... -Amanda still undecided, but glad to know either option would be a good one! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Apr 21 16:51:14 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA28206 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 16:51:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3LJo8h06171; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 13:50:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3LJo1A22596; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 13:50:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fepF.post.tele.dk (fepF.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.135]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3LJncA22524 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 13:49:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from post12.tele.dk ([62.243.47.63]) by fepF.post.tele.dk (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20020421194936.KHST16199.fepF.post.tele.dk@post12.tele.dk> for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 21:49:36 +0200 Message-ID: <3CC31802.C8C12DE1@post12.tele.dk> From: Leif Drews X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] 18th c. panier shape Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 21:50:26 +0200 Status: RO Dear list I have read your disgussion with the straps of Tudor era. Very interresting. I have never noticed those straps before. It is strange that noone (costume historians) has made any theorys about it. I have another question wich i have always wondered, and noone has ever written anything about it, this is 18th century stuff, and i think there are some, on the list who knows a little about these things. Why is it that the english panier is very stiffly shaped and did not follow the french fashion, wich made the hoops larger at each row. All other countries in the continent had the french shape, only the brittish had this sharp hoop? Was it because the english hated the french? (they were enemys all the time) I have always wondered why, and please forgive me my terrible spelling...... Bjarne -- Leif Drews boulevard 5, 3 th 1635 København V Bjarne Drews boulevard 5,3.th 1635 København V tlf. 35 37 13 70 My new domain name: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk Homepage: http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/~DeeDee_Revia/1index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Apr 21 16:55:00 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA28218 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 16:55:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3LJs2h06314; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 13:54:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3LJs1A23471; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 13:54:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fepF.post.tele.dk (fepF.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.135]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3LJrCA23284 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 13:53:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from post12.tele.dk ([62.243.47.63]) by fepF.post.tele.dk (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20020421195312.KIPO16199.fepF.post.tele.dk@post12.tele.dk> for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 21:53:12 +0200 Message-ID: <3CC318DA.9F4E1266@post12.tele.dk> From: Leif Drews X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] round of admiration Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 21:54:02 +0200 Status: RO Hello. I have wondered, if you would go for this topic! If you have your favourite costume portrait online somewhere, please give your adress and your admiration for this. Why do you choose this, could you give some information of it and how would you make it today??? Any??? :-) Bjarne -- Leif Drews boulevard 5, 3 th 1635 København V Bjarne Drews boulevard 5,3.th 1635 København V tlf. 35 37 13 70 My new domain name: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk Homepage: http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/~DeeDee_Revia/1index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Apr 21 17:21:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA28328 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 17:21:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3LKJ2h07384; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 14:19:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3LKJ1A28752; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 14:19:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3LKIkA28698 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 14:18:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-224-155-12.thegrid.net ([216.224.155.12]) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16zNnI-0002Uk-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 13:18:45 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th c. panier shape From: Sarah Goodman To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3CC31802.C8C12DE1@post12.tele.dk> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 13:18:31 -0700 Status: RO on 4/21/02 12:50 PM, Leif Drews at drewscph@post12.tele.dk wrote: > Dear list > I have read your disgussion with the straps of Tudor era. Very > interresting. I have never noticed those straps before. It is strange > that noone (costume historians) has made any theorys about it. > I have another question wich i have always wondered, and noone has ever > written anything about it, this is 18th century stuff, and i think there > are some, on the list who knows a little about these things. > Why is it that the english panier is very stiffly shaped and did not > follow the french fashion, wich made the hoops larger at each row. All > other countries in the continent had the french shape, only the brittish > had this sharp hoop? > Was it because the english hated the french? (they were enemys all the > time) > I have always wondered why, and please forgive me my terrible > spelling...... > > Bjarne Great question Bjarne! Unfortunately, my academic understanding of 18th century clothing is pretty slim, but I have a theory... This is something that seemed to be characteristic of English fashion from the beginning. Much of what was popular in England up until the onset of globalization (I'm really thinking early 1800's here) seemed to deviate from the "norm" of the fashion on the continent. It's certainly true of 16th century English clothes, as the discussion of the white straps illustrates. I think it has something to do with it's geographical isolation from the hub of European fashion. There is definately something about being an island nation that makes it feel more cut off from the rest of the "civilized" world and I think it's fashion sense really reflects that. I know that during the 16th century, the fashions in England were considered either outdated or just plain bizarre to the eyes of visiting foriegners. This could explain why the Enlish panier in the 18th century was less sofisticated in appearance than the French panier. Any thoughts? Sarah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Apr 21 18:08:15 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA28522 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 18:08:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3LL72h09353; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 15:07:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3LL70A09128; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 15:07:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3LL6qA09083 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 15:06:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) id g3LL8su94712 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 14:08:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200204212108.g3LL8su94712@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photos from GFD workshop In-Reply-To: <00ac01c1e91d$3bc0d0a0$9e614e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> "from Dianne and Greg Stucki at Apr 21, 2002 06:13:46 am" To: h-costume@indra.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL82 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 14:08:54 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO there are problems with the photos because the table is poorly formatted, which is pretty typical of pages created with MS Front Page. On my system - IE on a Mac -- it displays ok, but the text wraps over the photos, making it unreadable. .heather. > Robin, thank you for the link to the pics. For some reason, I thought you > needed a full-length mock up for this dress--good to know I don't! (Now, to > find someone to help me do the fitting..) > > The burgundy silk dress is absolutely gorgeous! The photos came up fine for > me. (I'm using the latest version of IE, on a Windows XP system.) > > Dianne > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robin Netherton" > To: "Historic Costume List" > Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 1:43 AM > Subject: [h-cost] Photos from GFD workshop > > > > > > Some of you may remember that I did a Gothic Fitted Dress workshop last > > summer in Boise, Idaho. (In fact, some of you were there.) There are now > > some photos from the workshop on the web page of the SCA group that > > sponsored it. > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Apr 21 20:07:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA29119 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 20:07:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3LN64h14700; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 17:06:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3LN60A05970; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 17:06:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3LN5sA05938 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 17:05:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lindo (ip160.sns.du.radix.net [207.192.133.160]) by saltmine.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with SMTP id g3LN5pFt023378 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 19:05:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200204212305.g3LN5pFt023378@saltmine.radix.net> X-Sender: lindo@saltmine.radix.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kevin + Mara Riley Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hamburg Museum catalog In-Reply-To: <20020420172011.87889.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com> References: <004a01c1e88a$38629440$6501a8c0@phoenix.speedchoice.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 19:04:44 -0400 Status: RO Cynthia, I'm currently looking into German costume from the mid-18th century. Would this catalog indicate at all how commoners' clothing in mid-18th c. Hamburg would have been different from what the English and French were wearing at the same time? Regards, Mara At 10:20 AM 4/20/2002 -0700, you wrote: > >Bjarne (and others who were interested), >I've finally opened the moving boxes & found the Hamburg catalog I was talking >about... oh, maybe 6 months ago. The catalog is "Voila: Glanzstuchke >historisher Moden 1750-1960". It's billed as "ein Mode-Streifzug durch das >Musem fur Kunst und Gewerbe Hamburg". > >Hope that gets you enough info to hunt down a new costume collection on your >next trip to Hamburg. Bon voyage! > >--cin >(formerly Cynthia in Tokyo) Kevin + Mara Riley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Apr 21 20:15:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA29203 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 20:15:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3LNE1h15041; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 17:14:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3LNE1A07667; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 17:14:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3LNDZA07568 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 17:13:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lindo (ip160.sns.du.radix.net [207.192.133.160]) by saltmine.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with SMTP id g3LNDXFt023852 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 19:13:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200204212313.g3LNDXFt023852@saltmine.radix.net> X-Sender: lindo@saltmine.radix.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kevin + Mara Riley Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photos from GFD workshop In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 19:12:26 -0400 Status: RO Robin, Thanks-- wonderful pics! -- Mara At 12:43 AM 4/21/2002 -0500, you wrote: >You can find the pages at: > >www.barony-of-arnhold.org/COMSTUMING.htm > >Follow the link to the Gothic Fitted Dress Seminar. > >--Robin Kevin + Mara Riley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Apr 21 20:15:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA29207 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 20:15:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3LNC1h14956; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 17:12:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3LNC0A07229; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 17:12:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3LNBrA07206 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 17:11:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.15b.cb92bd0 (4254) for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 19:11:46 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <15b.cb92bd0.29f4a132@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th c. panier shape To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_15b.cb92bd0.29f4a132_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10560 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 19:11:46 EDT Status: RO --part1_15b.cb92bd0.29f4a132_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/21/2002 4:19:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lithiate@earthlink.net writes: > This could explain why the Enlish panier > in the 18th century was less sofisticated in appearance than the French > panier. Any thoughts? > I think the nail you've hit on the head is regionalism. And it is much more pronounced than today but even then has roots in the distant past...which manifest themselves in the choices made by isolated fashions. I mean, the Iberian peninsula isn't an island and it is usually farther left of field than England....or anybody else in Europe. That early Moorish influence is the start of Spain's diverse path. The French were in charge of England at one time so I think an Englishman might show his disdain for things French subtlety: by choosing less fussy, plainer styles, concentrating on fine tailoring and fit and fabrics rather than ornament or complicated shapes. This is indeed what I find. --part1_15b.cb92bd0.29f4a132_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/21/2002 4:19:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lithiate@earthlink.net writes:


This could explain why the Enlish panier
in the 18th century was less sofisticated in appearance than the French
panier.  Any thoughts?


I think the nail you've hit on the head is regionalism. And it is much more pronounced than today but even then has roots in the distant past...which manifest themselves in the choices made by isolated fashions. I mean, the Iberian peninsula isn't an island and it is usually farther left of field than England....or anybody else in Europe. That early Moorish influence is the start of Spain's diverse path. The French were in charge of England at one time so I think an Englishman might show his disdain for things French subtlety: by choosing less fussy, plainer styles, concentrating on fine tailoring and fit and fabrics rather than ornament or complicated shapes. This is indeed what I find. --part1_15b.cb92bd0.29f4a132_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Apr 21 20:24:59 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA29253 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 20:24:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3LNO1h15490; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 17:24:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3LNO0A09959; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 17:24:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3LNNJA09837 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 17:23:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lindo (ip160.sns.du.radix.net [207.192.133.160]) by saltmine.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with SMTP id g3LNNGFt024464 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 19:23:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200204212323.g3LNNGFt024464@saltmine.radix.net> X-Sender: lindo@saltmine.radix.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kevin + Mara Riley Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th c. panier shape In-Reply-To: <3CC31802.C8C12DE1@post12.tele.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 19:22:10 -0400 Status: RO Bjarne, Are you talking about the squarish court panniers? My impression has always been that that was just one style, popular in the middle of the 18th century, and that other, rounder hoops were also worn. Yes, I agree, the squarish panniers are VERY ugly. Of course, I've mostly been focusing on middle-class and lower-class costume, and have avoided anything remotely resembling court hoops, so I don't know too much about them. Cheers, Mara At 09:50 PM 4/21/2002 +0200, you wrote: >Dear list >I have read your disgussion with the straps of Tudor era. Very >interresting. I have never noticed those straps before. It is strange >that noone (costume historians) has made any theorys about it. >I have another question wich i have always wondered, and noone has ever >written anything about it, this is 18th century stuff, and i think there >are some, on the list who knows a little about these things. >Why is it that the english panier is very stiffly shaped and did not >follow the french fashion, wich made the hoops larger at each row. All >other countries in the continent had the french shape, only the brittish >had this sharp hoop? >Was it because the english hated the french? (they were enemys all the >time) >I have always wondered why, and please forgive me my terrible >spelling...... > >Bjarne Kevin + Mara Riley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 22 00:25:10 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA30402 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 00:25:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3M3OAh27141; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 21:24:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3M3O0A06168; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 21:24:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3M3NgA06080 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 21:23:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=laptop) by falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16zUQX-0002OU-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 20:23:42 -0700 From: "Saragrace knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] round of admiration Organization: PII Message-ID: <000a01c1e9ac$08e8b640$6501a8c0@Home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 In-Reply-To: <3CC318DA.9F4E1266@post12.tele.dk> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 20:16:02 -0700 Status: RO This is one is next on my list after I complete the one I am almost done with. I like it for it's complexity. I have the fabric already. The underskirt is Indian silk. Teal/Aqua with metallic 'squares' with medallions in rust, orange and wheat. I have a wool/silk blend for the outer layer and I have lots of metallic 'lace' for trim. How will I make it? I am not sure what Bjarne means by this, but here is a stab. I will draft the pattern myself, and do some research to see if I can 'uncover' some information about the underpinnings. There must be something underneath all that to make her breasts stand up the way they do. Or on the other hand maybe the high waist line and the 'freedom' of the "V" is enough to do that, and I can't see why they would have bothered with a full corset, but I'll just have to fiddle with it. Great question Bjarne, this will generate lots of good stuff!! Thanks for the opportunity! http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/16thital/durer-vene1495-1.jpg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 22 00:43:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA30477 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 00:43:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3M3ggh27930; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 21:42:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3M3gfA10595; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 21:42:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3M3dmA09900 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 21:39:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=laptop) by falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16zUg7-0001Lx-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 20:39:48 -0700 From: "Saragrace knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Photos from GFD workshop Organization: PII Message-ID: <000b01c1e9ae$48be58e0$6501a8c0@Home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 In-Reply-To: <200204212108.g3LL8su94712@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 20:32:08 -0700 Status: RO The photos came up **> fine for me. (I'm using the latest version of IE, on a Windows XP **> system.) Same here-no problems at all. Looks very nice. My favorite shot is from the back. While it doesn't show the nice work you have done as much as the other shots, it just looks so graceful. The length is perfect and it 'moves' so nicely. (I am so jealous too of your hair!!). Too bad you weren't moving down the hall of a castle when that shot were taken. If it weren't for the background, who'd know that you didn't just step off a time machine!! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 22 01:10:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA30554 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 01:10:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3M49Oh29208; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 22:09:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3M49NA17066; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 22:09:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3M43JA15506 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 22:03:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA20632 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 00:23:49 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] Photos from GFD workshop In-Reply-To: <000b01c1e9ae$48be58e0$6501a8c0@Home> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 00:23:49 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Sun, 21 Apr 2002, Saragrace knauf wrote: > Same here-no problems at all. Looks very nice. My favorite shot is > from the back. While it doesn't show the nice work you have done as > much as the other shots, it just looks so graceful. The length is > perfect and it 'moves' so nicely. (I am so jealous too of your > hair!!). Too bad you weren't moving down the hall of a castle when > that shot were taken. If it weren't for the background, who'd know > that you didn't just step off a time machine!! :-) Thanks! I love how these dresses look from the back. The style is really flattering, even on a large woman, as long as she has any dip at the small of the back. People usually assume that men enjoy seeing women in this style because of the cleavage, but I've watched guys watching women in this dress, and their eyes go to the curve between the waist and hips, particularly at the back. My husband, who has seen me fit plenty of these, confirms this. ;-) I find this amusing in part because we spend so much time during the fittings working on corralling the bust, and nearly all the questions I get about the style have to do with the bust position and support. No one really thinks about what's happening at the small of the back. My hair, alas, is very unperiod in this photo -- any respectable woman would have had it neatly confined and at least partially covered. I believe I started my lecture that day by apologizing for being half-undressed. There's another back view of this dress (this time with a more proper headdress) in Penny's Online Costume Ball from 2001. I have it linked from my not-quite-a-webpage, . --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 22 01:31:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA30618 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 01:31:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3M4U3h00434; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 22:30:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3M4U2A21917; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 22:30:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp1.ihug.co.nz (smtp1.ihug.co.nz [203.109.252.7]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3M4DqA18140 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 22:13:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p44-nas11.akl.ihug.co.nz (user) [203.173.213.44] by smtp1.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1 (Debian)) id 16zVD3-00056h-00; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 16:13:49 +1200 Message-ID: <004101c1e9b3$afb86680$2cd5adcb@user> From: "michaela" To: References: <01a101c1e8d7$37904920$6501a8c0@phoenix.speedchoice.com> <4.3.1.2.20020421015452.00c13100@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Historic doll on the Frazzled Frau site!! SOoOoOoO Cooool! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 16:10:47 +1200 Status: RO > >Oh, I have some patterns for wood turned 18th C dolls. I have been so > >tempted to make them.. but I can't get my hands on a lathe.. and I will not > >be able to hand carve them with my hands the way they are. > > You may not be able to do it even with a lathe, but Dremmel makes (or used > to make)a good one. Well, they're designed to be turned, much like a post for a bed etc. You then shape the hands feet and lower torso by hand. I'd have to pull them out again to see exactly how they are jointed. But then I'd rather just borrow someone's for a while. I think purchasing a machine just for a few dolls might be a bit extravagent. michaela _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 22 05:21:59 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA26830 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 05:21:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3M8L4h07745; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 02:21:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3M8L1A06548; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 02:21:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [195.194.177.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3M86QA03911 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 02:06:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from csv6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA29496.; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 09:15:06 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by csv6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 09:05:31 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.1 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Historic doll on the Frazzled Frau site!! SOoOoOoO Cooool! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g3M86QA03911 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 09:05:20 +0100 Status: RO I noticed that the coloured pic. of the doll shows her playing her cittern lefthanded; I re-checked the black & white version and found that it doesn't! I guess it must be the coloured one that has been reversed. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 22 09:04:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27673 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 09:04:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3MC33h13179; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 06:03:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3MC31A14839; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 06:03:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3MC2DA14675 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 06:02:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.34.187]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GUY0014AXFOJ8@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 05:02:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Historic doll on the Frazzled Frau site!! SOoOoOoO Cooool! In-reply-to: <004101c1e9b3$afb86680$2cd5adcb@user> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020422044606.04fd8d80@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <01a101c1e8d7$37904920$6501a8c0@phoenix.speedchoice.com> <4.3.1.2.20020421015452.00c13100@mail.frys.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 04:50:32 -0700 Status: RO > > >Oh, I have some patterns for wood turned 18th C dolls. I have been so > > >tempted to make them.. but I can't get my hands on a lathe.. and I will >not > > >be able to hand carve them with my hands the way they are. > > > > You may not be able to do it even with a lathe, but Dremmel makes (or used > > to make)a good one. > >Well, they're designed to be turned, much like a post for a bed etc. You >then shape the hands feet and lower torso by hand. I'd have to pull them out >again to see exactly how they are jointed. > >But then I'd rather just borrow someone's for a while. I think purchasing a >machine just for a few dolls might be a bit extravagent. I was given my Dremmel lathe as an Xmas present. (It was all I got that year, because everyone clubbed together to get that one thing.) Than later I bought a Dremmel scroll saw AND a Craftsman 10" bandsaw for $30 at a yard sale, after being shown that both worked. It was my intention to make turned bone crochet hooks with the lathe, and to make fancy fan sticks with the scroll saw. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 22 09:04:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27677 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 09:04:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3MC3Oh13204; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 06:03:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3MC3OA14939; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 06:03:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3MC2EA14680 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 06:02:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.34.187]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GUY0014AXFOJ8@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 05:02:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: [h-cost] Photos from GFD workshop In-reply-to: X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020422050113.04fde500@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <000b01c1e9ae$48be58e0$6501a8c0@Home> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 05:02:04 -0700 Status: RO >There's another back view of this dress (this time with a more proper >headdress) in Penny's Online Costume Ball from 2001. I have it linked from >my not-quite-a-webpage, . Somebody tell me again when the Online Costume Ball is? Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 22 10:29:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA27950 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 10:29:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3MDT3h16565; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 07:29:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3MDT1A05954; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 07:29:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3MDSuA05922 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 07:28:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.133.149.151] (pm5-151.eos.net [205.133.149.151]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA22466 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 09:28:52 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200204221204.g3MC43A15085@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: Gothic fitted dress Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 09:21:36 -0400 Status: RO Thanks so much for posting that site! It was fun to look at a whole room full of women trying out this style, even though the end result was pinned shells and not real gowns. I'd love to see what they make! I love how this style makes women of any shape look good. I think this selection of pictures particularly shows how modern clothes -- jeans and t-shirts -- give everyone a squarish look that is not particularly attractive. The Gothic fitted dress gives everyone a waist, a defined bust, and hips. This is not to say that it looks bad on women with small busts; it looks great on them too. And the skirt flaring from the hips looks just lovely. BTW, I agree that the most flattering thing about this dress IS the small of the back (& what's below it, of course!). My husband confirms this. Many styles of jeans also have a tight waist and flare to cover the hips and derriere -- but it's definitely not the same thing! Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 22 10:33:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA27982 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 10:33:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3MDX1h16843; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 07:33:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3MDX0A07391; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 07:33:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3MDWxA07374 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 07:32:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.133.149.151] (pm5-151.eos.net [205.133.149.151]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23423 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 09:32:45 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200204221204.g3MC43A15085@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Victorian medieval Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 09:25:24 -0400 Status: RO A week or so ago someone inquired about what "Victorian medieval" meant. For a fairly contemporary example, rent the Danny Kaye film "The Court Jester." We rented it last night and the dresses of the two main female characters are very much Victorian medieval -- they have built-in corsets that cover the hips, very full skirts that flare out from the corset, and belts that hang in the front in a V-shape; pretty much identical to many Victorian etchings of "medieval" dresses that I have seen, except that the bust line is modern. They are also completely off the shoulder! All in all, very pretty bits of fantasy costume. The costume and set designers on this film obviously knew their stuff and had fun "contemporizing" it. Plus it's a fun movie. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 22 10:59:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA28130 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 10:59:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3MDw3h18434; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 07:58:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3MDw0A16574; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 07:58:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com (dl.mixmeister.net [66.210.221.206]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3MDvcA16381 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 07:57:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from maid.mchsi.com [12.218.242.3] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A7051270136; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 08:58:29 -0500 Message-ID: <001601c1ea05$ae2b64a0$03f2da0c@mchsi.com> From: "Susan" To: References: <000b01c1e9ae$48be58e0$6501a8c0@Home> <4.3.1.2.20020422050113.04fde500@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photos from GFD workshop/onlineball MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Susan" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 08:57:41 -0500 Status: RO I believe Penny starts taking photo submissions in late Aug. right up until the first week in Oct. She tries to have the ball web site ready before Halloween. Susan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" To: Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 7:02 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Photos from GFD workshop > > >There's another back view of this dress (this time with a more proper > >headdress) in Penny's Online Costume Ball from 2001. I have it linked from > >my not-quite-a-webpage, . > > Somebody tell me again when the Online Costume Ball is? > > > Kayta > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by plugit.com] > > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by plugit.com] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 22 11:36:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA28324 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 11:36:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3MEZ3h21359; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 08:35:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3MEZ2A02148; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 08:35:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc54.attbi.com (rwcrmhc54.attbi.com [216.148.227.87]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3MEYLA01844 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 08:34:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from duck ([24.130.169.157]) by rwcrmhc54.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020422143415.INR1102.rwcrmhc54.attbi.com@duck> for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 14:34:15 +0000 Message-ID: <005201c1ea0a$c3be5d90$9da98218@duck> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: References: <3CC29C62.1866.25DAA7@localhost> Subject: Re: [h-cost] visiting London MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 07:34:09 -0700 Status: RO I didn't see the original post, so please excuse me if someone has already mentioned this -- the Museum of London also has a dress collection (not sure what's regularly on view). If you're up to a day trip, you should head out to Bath to see the Museum of Dress! - Kendra ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jane Williams" To: Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 3:02 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] visiting London > On 20 Apr 2002 at 20:32, Leif Drews wrote: > > > Bye the way i go to London next month, and i wondered if there was more to go to > > than the exhibit with royal wedding dresses trough 100 years at Kensington Palace? > > I take it you know about the Victoria & Albert > museum? > http://www.vam.ac.uk/ > > And of course the British Museum is always fun > http://www.thebritishmuseum.ac.uk/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 22 11:37:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA28329 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 11:37:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3MEa2h21470; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 08:36:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3MEa0A02589; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 08:36:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (rwcrmhc52.attbi.com [216.148.227.88]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3MEZfA02452 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 08:35:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from duck ([24.130.169.157]) by rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020422143536.JBRO1901.rwcrmhc52.attbi.com@duck> for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 14:35:36 +0000 Message-ID: <006101c1ea0a$f3e3ce10$9da98218@duck> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: Subject: Fw: [h-cost] Dating MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 07:35:30 -0700 Status: RO Thanks for all of the thoughts on the turn of the century dress! Anyone have any thoughts on any of the others? - Kendra > > 1836ish? > http://www.ucad.fr/mmt/chrono/1830-1850/551.jpg > http://www.ucad.fr/mmt/chrono/1830-1850/552.jpg > > Early 1850s? > http://www.ucad.fr/mmt/chrono/1846-1865/792.jpg > http://www.ucad.fr/mmt/chrono/1846-1865/795.jpg > > 1850s? > http://www.ucad.fr/mmt/chrono/1846-1865/809.jpg > > Later 1860s? > http://www.ucad.fr/mmt/chrono/1860-1869/909.jpg > http://www.ucad.fr/mmt/chrono/1860-1869/912.jpg > > Later 1860s? > http://www.ucad.fr/mmt/chrono/1860-1869/978.jpg > > Later 1860s? > http://www.ucad.fr/mmt/chrono/1860-1869/933.jpg > http://www.ucad.fr/mmt/chrono/1860-1869/935.jpg > > 1870-73ish? > http://www.ucad.fr/mmt/chrono/1870-1880/1002.jpg > > 1876-78ish? > http://www.ucad.fr/mmt/chrono/1870-1880/1082.jpg > http://www.ucad.fr/mmt/chrono/1870-1880/1083.jpg > > 1893-94ish? > http://www.ucad.fr/mmt/chrono/1890-1900/1461.jpg > http://www.ucad.fr/mmt/chrono/1890-1900/1465.jpg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 22 12:12:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28466 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 12:12:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3MFC2h25168; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 09:12:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3MFC0A21223; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 09:12:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m2.jersey.juno.com (m2.jersey.juno.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3MFBCA20785 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 09:11:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCjWWjAB5lX39Gcsc1nJ9ef8DD2Bcg5VrKQ=="> Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.jersey.juno.com (jqueuemail) id GYZSRVNR; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 11:09:50 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] visiting London Message-ID: <20020422.100959.-445201.2.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-2,9-11 From: seamstrix@juno.com Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 10:09:58 -0500 Status: RO Bjarne, When you go the V&A, be sure to go up to their textile collections. They have cases and cases of period lace and needlework including a fine linen, lace-edged handkerchief that belonged to Queen Elizabeth. You will absolutely love it!!! It's the sort of place that one could spend hours and hours in. The Costume section was undergoing an extensive revision when I was there in February, but the textile cases were still quite available. Karen ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 22 12:16:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28477 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 12:16:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3MFG2h25618; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 09:16:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3MFG1A23655; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 09:16:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3MFF7A23176 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 09:15:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=laptop) by albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16zfWi-0003BD-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 08:14:48 -0700 From: "Saragrace knauf" To: Organization: PII Message-ID: <000501c1ea0f$5fcd8cc0$6501a8c0@Home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Subject: [h-cost] Favorite Costume Portrait and Your next project-Was:round of admiration Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 08:06:55 -0700 Status: RO Bjarne, I reposted this because I think it is such a fun topic, and I think people are not picking up on the intention of the subject line. I really want to hear what everyone else's favorites are. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of Saragrace knauf Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 8:16 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] round of admiration This is one is next on my list after I complete the one I am almost done with. I like it for it's complexity. I have the fabric already. The underskirt is Indian silk. Teal/Aqua with metallic 'squares' with medallions in rust, orange and wheat. I have a wool/silk blend for the outer layer and I have lots of metallic 'lace' for trim. How will I make it? I am not sure what Bjarne means by this, but here is a stab. I will draft the pattern myself, and do some research to see if I can 'uncover' some information about the underpinnings. There must be something underneath all that to make her breasts stand up the way they do. Or on the other hand maybe the high waist line and the 'freedom' of the "V" is enough to do that, and I can't see why they would have bothered with a full corset, but I'll just have to fiddle with it. Great question Bjarne, this will generate lots of good stuff!! Thanks for the opportunity! http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/16thital/durer-vene1495-1.jpg -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of Leif Drews Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 12:54 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] round of admiration Hello. I have wondered, if you would go for this topic! If you have your favourite costume portrait online somewhere, please give your adress and your admiration for this. Why do you choose this, could you give some information of it and how would you make it today??? Any??? :-) Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 22 12:24:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28503 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 12:24:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3MFO4h26357; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 09:24:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3MFO2A28048; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 09:24:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3MFNNA27657 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 09:23:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) id g3MFPOX99888 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 08:25:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200204221525.g3MFPOX99888@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: Fw: [h-cost] Dating In-Reply-To: <006101c1ea0a$f3e3ce10$9da98218@duck> "from Kendra Van Cleave at Apr 22, 2002 07:35:30 am" To: h-costume@indra.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL82 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 08:25:24 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO kendra -- where's the entry way into these photos? I poked around a bit, but I couldn't seem to find them. .heather. > Thanks for all of the thoughts on the turn of the century dress! Anyone > have any thoughts on any of the others? > > - Kendra > > > > > 1836ish? > > http://www.ucad.fr/mmt/chrono/1830-1850/551.jpg > > http://www.ucad.fr/mmt/chrono/1830-1850/552.jpg > > > > Early 1850s? > > http://www.ucad.fr/mmt/chrono/1846-1865/792.jpg > > http://www.ucad.fr/mmt/chrono/1846-1865/795.jpg > > > > 1850s? > > http://www.ucad.fr/mmt/chrono/1846-1865/809.jpg > > > > Later 1860s? > > http://www.ucad.fr/mmt/chrono/1860-1869/909.jpg > > http://www.ucad.fr/mmt/chrono/1860-1869/912.jpg > > > > Later 1860s? > > http://www.ucad.fr/mmt/chrono/1860-1869/978.jpg > > > > Later 1860s? > > http://www.ucad.fr/mmt/chrono/1860-1869/933.jpg > > http://www.ucad.fr/mmt/chrono/1860-1869/935.jpg > > > > 1870-73ish? > > http://www.ucad.fr/mmt/chrono/1870-1880/1002.jpg > > > > 1876-78ish? > > http://www.ucad.fr/mmt/chrono/1870-1880/1082.jpg > > http://www.ucad.fr/mmt/chrono/1870-1880/1083.jpg > > > > 1893-94ish? > > http://www.ucad.fr/mmt/chrono/1890-1900/1461.jpg > > http://www.ucad.fr/mmt/chrono/1890-1900/1465.jpg > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 22 13:37:16 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28827 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 13:37:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3MGaCh06950; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 10:36:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3MGa0D21716; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 10:36:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (new-asteroid.pacifier.com [216.65.150.154]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3MGXnD20269 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 10:33:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 ([207.173.174.95]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g3MGXjt07214 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 09:33:45 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gable headdress, what are those? Message-ID: <3CC3D912.15703.22EB580B@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3CC2F149.DB4C5524@dandy.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 09:34:10 -0700 Status: RO > Hi. It is possible that these are decorative finishes to the place > where the wire in the headdress ends, and is either bent back on > itself or ended with a blob of lead. There are a few existing wire > assemblies from this period in, I believe, the Museum of London. I > can't remember which catalog I saw them in right now, but I'll post > the info when I find it. Mike T. They are indeed at the Museum of London. They generally have 1-2 of them on view (unless they are in the backroom with someone like me who is studying them.) They also have others, but not so complete, as well as some different styles (like the one worn by "granny" at the Wolstenholm Massacre site near Williamsburg.) At the time I had my appointment in 1999, they had 11 headdress wires. I'm hoping that they will have new ones found if I ever get to go back. Kat kat@grendal.rain.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 22 14:46:19 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA29216 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 14:46:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3MHhhh15488; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 11:43:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3MHfuD02967; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 11:41:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from copacabana.rio.com (root@copacabana.rio.com [66.178.128.44]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3MHUkD26065 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 11:30:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [208.137.122.23] (ppp277.t0.rio.com [208.137.122.23]) by copacabana.rio.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g3MHUlY19651 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 10:30:47 -0700 (PDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photos from GFD workshop From: Gary Walker To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 10:29:36 -0700 Status: RO on 4/20/02 10:43 PM, Robin Netherton at robin@shell.nightowl.net wrote: > > Some of you may remember that I did a Gothic Fitted Dress workshop last > summer in Boise, Idaho. (In fact, some of you were there.) There are now > some photos from the workshop on the web page of the SCA group that > sponsored it. > > There seems to be some problem with some of the photos (both in quality > and placement), but apparently this is only evident on some people's > systems, including mine :-( I know nothing about web page building, but > if any of you see the problems, please drop me a note and tell me what > browser you're using, and perhaps we'll find a pattern. Better yet, if > you've seen these particular problems and know what to do about them, > please email me offlist and I'll pass your advice to the people in charge. > > You can find the pages at: > > www.barony-of-arnhold.org/COMSTUMING.htm > > Follow the link to the Gothic Fitted Dress Seminar. > > --Robin what a funny typo in the url -- has anyone told them? in any case, Robin, we have a G4 (Apple) and the captions are almost all BEHIND the pictures (!) where I mostly can't see them except for bits while the pics are loading. (in OX 9.2; haven't tried from OSX, I think) my husband says it looks like something you get in a lot of the programs Microsoft makes to build pages for people who don't want to learn to do straight HTML, the "fill in the blanks" programs? yeah, when I "view source", I get some really interesting stuff that doesn't look at all like plain-vanilla HTML (which I do know what looks like, I've seen what's under our Ravensgard pages), and the text blocks aren't there! they must be in some sort of graphic format where Source only gives you a reference to the image of the text. rats, I thought maybe I could get around/to the buried text that way. the pictures are GREAT So now I have to REALLY adjust my mental picture of you, 8-)!!! - red hair and + glasses... and so young for so many accomplishments! Chimene, on sca-cooks too _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 22 14:55:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA29252 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 14:55:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3MHs3h16758; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 11:54:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3MHs2D11488; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 11:54:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kumc-scanout.kumc.edu (kumc-scanout.kumc.edu [169.147.166.198]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g3MHb6D29896 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 11:37:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: FROM gatedo.kumc.edu BY kumc-scanout.kumc.edu ; Mon Apr 22 12:37:04 2002 -0500 Received: from KUMC-GATEWAY-DOMAIN-Message_Server by gatedo.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 12:37:04 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 5.5.3.1 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g3MHb6D29896 Subject: [h-cost] Back view of GFD Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 12:36:56 -0500 Status: RO I love how these dresses look from the back. The style is really flattering, even on a large woman, as long as she has any dip at the small of the back. People usually assume that men enjoy seeing women in this style because of the cleavage, but I've watched guys watching women in this dress, and their eyes go to the curve between the waist and hips, particularly at the back. My husband, who has seen me fit plenty of these, confirms this. ;-) --Robin >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I caught a show on cable recently that talked about how, despite our American culture's obsession w/ the bust, men are really attracted to women whose hips are .7 larger than the waist. Had something to do with ideal child-bearing proportions and the subconcious instinct/need to propagate their genes :). Hmmmm, puts drum farthingales in a whole new light :)!!!! Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 22 15:07:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA29301 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 15:07:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3MI6Jh17925; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 12:06:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3MI6GD19031; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 12:06:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3MHr1D10809 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 11:53:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA24756 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 14:13:31 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photos from GFD workshop In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 14:13:31 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Mon, 22 Apr 2002, Gary Walker wrote: > they must be in some sort of graphic format where Source only gives you a > reference to the image of the text. rats, I thought maybe I could get > around/to the buried text that way. Yes, apparently. I'm not in touch with the webmaster who laid this out, but my contact is, and she's feeding him all these comments -- thanks to all who have sent me hints that may enable him to fix this stuff. I was able to read the captions by turning off my "show graphics" option in IE. > the pictures are GREAT > > So now I have to REALLY adjust my mental picture of you, 8-)!!! - red hair > and + glasses... and so young for so many accomplishments! Dark brown hair, actually! (Hmm, what does that mean about color on the images?) And I'm older than I look ;-) The youthful hair distracts people from seeing from the wrinkles. But no, apparently I don't look at all like my surname (courtesy my husband) and postings lead people to believe. I get a lot of doubletakes when people who know me online meet me for the first time. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 22 15:56:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA29508 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 15:56:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3MItth23403; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 12:55:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3MItjD18973; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 12:55:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3MIdPD09456 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 12:39:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comcast.net (pcp234016pcs.elictc01.md.comcast.net [68.55.178.225]) by mtaout03.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.3 (built Apr 8 2002)) with ESMTP id <0GUZ009LZFTIV7@mtaout03.icomcast.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 14:39:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Liz / Cozit To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <3CC458D9.5481A372@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en References: <200204211321.g3LDL1A26030@net.indra.com> Subject: [h-cost] spangles Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: cozit@comcast.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 14:39:22 -0400 Status: RO *G* I finally found out that those period looking gold and silver spangles are easier to get a hold of than I thought. Trick is to ask your local needlework store to order them from Kreinik... don't know if kreinik sells directly or not. Took a class on the various fibers that Kreinik makes and sells earlier this month, and realized that I'm going to just have to come up with a good idea of how to lay out the purse I'm going to start so that I'll have a chance to play with their Japan Silver and the spangles (they call them something else, starting with a P (wanna say pasteilles or something)... but I'm forgetful). They are the type formed by taking a nearly circle twist of wire and flattening... and will tarnish eventually, but... *G* Like my garb and needlework addictions weren't bad enough to begin with... -Elisabeth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 22 18:29:15 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA30432 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 18:29:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3MLSBh10735; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 15:28:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3MLS8D19237; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 15:28:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from latte.2xtreme.net (latte.2xtreme.net [66.250.18.10]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g3MKTnD16022 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 14:29:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 19729 invoked from network); 22 Apr 2002 20:35:28 -0000 Received: from 66-81-73-120-modem.o1.com (HELO 2xtreme.net) (66.81.73.120) by latte.2xtreme.net with SMTP; 22 Apr 2002 20:35:28 -0000 Message-ID: <3CC4710A.A41CBDCA@2xtreme.net> From: Stephen Bergdahl X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Back view of GFD References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 13:22:34 -0700 Status: RO Catherine Kinsey wrote: > > I caught a show on cable recently that talked about how, despite our American culture's obsession w/ the bust, men are really attracted to women whose hips are .7 larger than the waist. Had something to do with ideal child-bearing proportions and the subconcious instinct/need to propagate their genes :). Hmmmm, puts drum farthingales in a whole new light :)!!!! > > Catherine > It also explains the hoop skirt, and bustle. It's interesting to me that women work so hard these days to keep their hips small, but all though history women have been trying to make their hips bigger. The biggest complaint I hear from the Fort where we do 1846, is that the dresses make their hips too big. Personally as a man I like a little meat on my woman. Super skinny models just leave me cold. Stephen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 22 18:34:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA30551 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 18:34:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3MLXmh11544; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 15:33:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3MLRMD18931; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 15:27:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fepZ.post.tele.dk (fepz.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.133]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3MKs7D00197 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 14:54:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from post12.tele.dk ([195.215.190.68]) by fepB.post.tele.dk (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20020422202403.QOA11201.fepB.post.tele.dk@post12.tele.dk> for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 22:24:03 +0200 Message-ID: <3CC47193.60371A26@post12.tele.dk> From: Leif Drews X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] spangles References: <200204211321.g3LDL1A26030@net.indra.com> <3CC458D9.5481A372@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 22:24:52 +0200 Status: RO Hi Yes they call them palliettes! When you have had those in your hands, you realise, that plastic is something silly you used to use :-) Bjarne Liz / Cozit wrote: > *G* I finally found out that those period looking gold and silver spangles are easier to get a > hold of than I thought. Trick is to ask your local needlework store to order them from Kreinik... > don't know if kreinik sells directly or not. > > Took a class on the various fibers that Kreinik makes and sells earlier this month, and realized > that I'm going to just have to come up with a good idea of how to lay out the purse I'm going to > start so that I'll have a chance to play with their Japan Silver and the spangles (they call them > something else, starting with a P (wanna say pasteilles or something)... but I'm forgetful). > > They are the type formed by taking a nearly circle twist of wire and flattening... and will tarnish > eventually, but... > > *G* Like my garb and needlework addictions weren't bad enough to begin with... > > -Elisabeth > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Leif Drews boulevard 5, 3 th 1635 København V Bjarne Drews boulevard 5,3.th 1635 København V tlf. 35 37 13 70 My new domain name: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk Homepage: http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/~DeeDee_Revia/1index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 22 22:13:15 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA31957 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 22:13:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3N1CSh06903; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 19:12:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3N1CPD13638; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 19:12:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (rwcrmhc52.attbi.com [216.148.227.88]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3MKRuD14922 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 14:27:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from C59303A ([12.238.186.197]) by rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020422202747.YFPF1901.rwcrmhc52.attbi.com@C59303A> for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 20:27:47 +0000 Message-ID: <064701c1ea3c$17bffd00$c5baee0c@mckiny1.tx.home.com> From: "Chiara" To: References: <000501c1ea0f$5fcd8cc0$6501a8c0@Home> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Favorite Costume Portrait and Your next project MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 15:24:23 -0500 Status: RO My next costume project is for a local event here. It will be the Eleanora dress because and only because I found _the_ fabric. No, I will not reveal the location of said fabric because it is mine all mine, buhahahahhahaha!! Only once before have I seen the dress done in the exactly same fabric pattern as her dress, the tailor painted it himself on white silk. It was to die for! (20 years ago) I already made the decorative chemise and am working on making other subtle parts before I actually cut this beautiful once in a life time find of a fabric. I recently was laid off and replaced by a contractor so I have plenty of straight linear time to actually finish it from beginning to end instead of my usual start stop, start stop, start stop. :) I have also lost over 20 pounds now stressing over if I am ever going to find anything again. So the fit will be beautiful. :) Sincerely, Franchesca Havas McKinney, Texas `°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°` ----- Original Message ----- From: "Saragrace knauf" To: Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 10:06 AM Subject: [h-cost] Favorite Costume Portrait and Your next project-Was:round of admiration > Bjarne, I reposted this because I think it is such a fun topic, and I > think people are not picking up on the intention of the subject line. I > really want to hear what everyone else's favorites are. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 22 22:14:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA31965 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 22:14:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3N1Deh07047; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 19:13:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3N1DdD14236; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 19:13:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3MMISD20574 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 16:18:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=laptop) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16zm8f-0004fz-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 15:18:25 -0700 From: "Saragrace knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Back view of GFD Organization: PII Message-ID: <001301c1ea4a$86bd0aa0$6501a8c0@Home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: <3CC4710A.A41CBDCA@2xtreme.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 15:10:33 -0700 Status: RO >Personally as a man I like a little meat on my woman. Super skinny models just leave me cold. > Stephen Well, I know that attitude will make lots of us on this list happy!! Whenever I whine about my big butt to my husband he just lets me know that he likes it just the way it is! Bless your souls!! Now all we have to figure out is who is out there promoting this anorexic waif look and WHY? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 22 22:15:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA31974 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 22:15:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3N1EKh07178; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 19:14:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3N1EJD14626; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 19:14:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3N14TD10888 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 19:04:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m128.in-tch.com [216.166.191.128]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g3N0pmX08835 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 18:51:53 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3CC4B446.26D442CE@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photos from GFD workshop References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 19:09:26 -0600 Status: RO You do *not* have wrinkles....., at least not that I recall..... --Sue Robin Netherton wrote: > > Dark brown hair, actually! (Hmm, what does that mean about color on the > images?) And I'm older than I look ;-) The youthful hair distracts people > from seeing from the wrinkles. But no, apparently I don't look at all like > my surname (courtesy my husband) and postings lead people to believe. I > get a lot of doubletakes when people who know me online meet me for the > first time. > > --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 22 22:16:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA31986 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 22:16:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3N1FCh07255; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 19:15:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3N1FBD14972; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 19:15:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp4.ihug.co.nz (smtp4.ihug.co.nz [203.109.252.5]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3N1DND14133 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 19:13:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p6-nas11.akl.ihug.co.nz (user) [203.173.213.6] by smtp4.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1 (Debian)) id 16zorw-00009W-00; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 13:13:20 +1200 Message-ID: <004d01c1ea63$a2e40940$06d5adcb@user> From: "michaela" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian medieval MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 13:10:15 +1200 Status: RO And of course don't forget those wonderful old opera photos. I have about a dozen of women as Marguerite in Faust.. they have a faily standard outfit: Pale dress, super plain with high neck and slashing at shoulders and elbows. A girdle with puch hanging off it, generalyy slung to the side, plain hair or occasionally a decorative fanciful hat. All the dresses from late 1870s-1880s are practically from the same pattern, the latter ones from the early 20thC get more fussy. michaela _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 22 22:21:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA32016 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 22:21:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3N1L1h07581; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 19:21:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3N1L0D17214; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 19:21:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp4.ihug.co.nz (smtp4.ihug.co.nz [203.109.252.5]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3N1KiD17114 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 19:20:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p6-nas11.akl.ihug.co.nz (user) [203.173.213.6] by smtp4.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1 (Debian)) id 16zoz4-0000R3-00; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 13:20:42 +1200 Message-ID: <005301c1ea64$aa77ed60$06d5adcb@user> From: "michaela" To: References: <000501c1ea0f$5fcd8cc0$6501a8c0@Home> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Favorite Costume Portrait and Your next project-Was:round of admiration MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 13:17:35 +1200 Status: RO > Bjarne, I reposted this because I think it is such a fun topic, and I > think people are not picking up on the intention of the subject line. I > really want to hear what everyone else's favorites are. And because so few people have posted. I'll give it a shot:) http://frazzledfrau.tripod.com/1528fav399.htm I love the fabric and style of this one. Simple, but not severe, it uses the colour and texture of the fabrics to achieve a very distinctive elegant style. Yellow shot silk and burgundy/maroon velvet trim. And of course, with her fairly atypical more spanish/english style shaped bodice (it is seen in a few other german paintings) the style is probably going to suit me more. Being not so well endowed, even a corded bodice is going to flatten me out somewhat;). michaela _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 22 23:31:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA32338 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 23:31:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3N2U5h11593; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 20:30:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3N2U4D10174; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 20:30:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53.attbi.com [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3N2THD09944 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 20:29:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from duck ([24.130.169.157]) by rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020423022911.EKFS12144.rwcrmhc53.attbi.com@duck> for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 02:29:11 +0000 Message-ID: <004b01c1ea6e$a11080c0$9da98218@duck> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: References: <200204221525.g3MFPOX99888@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: Fw: [h-cost] Dating MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 19:29:00 -0700 Status: RO Hi Heather! The photos are on the Museum's chronology of fashion. Go to the museum's start page (http://www.ucad.fr/mmt/) and click on "Chronologie de la Mode de 1700 a nos jours" (it's a frames site, so I can't link you there directly). Only some of the pages have images on them, and none of the images have captions or any dating info. Hence my question! I've linked them from my Real Victorian Clothing page (http://www.tweedlebop.com/kendra/costume/realvict.html), and I wanted to get more precise dates on them. - Kendra ----- Original Message ----- From: "Heather Meadows" Subject: Re: Fw: [h-cost] Dating > kendra -- where's the entry way into these photos? I poked around > a bit, but I couldn't seem to find them. > > > .heather. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 22 23:33:15 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA32344 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 23:33:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3N2V2h11649; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 20:31:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3N2V1D10474; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 20:31:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtpgate.suscom.net (smtp.suscom.net [64.78.119.252]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3N2UdD10361 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 20:30:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailhost.suscom.net (pop.suscom.net [64.78.119.253]) by smtpgate.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 031AC10F0F4 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 22:26:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from yourczpl0pp1h9 (ip158.97.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.158]) by mailhost.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id E78D43A8028 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 22:28:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <004b01c1ea6e$87665fa0$9e614e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" To: References: <3CC4710A.A41CBDCA@2xtreme.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Back view of GFD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 22:28:17 -0400 Status: RO Well, I've gained thirty pounds since I met my DH (three babies and quitting smoking will do that to ya!), and he doesn't seem any less interested in me as a size 12 than he did as a size 2. I, on the other hand, rather liked weighing 102 pounds and would love to get back there, or at least close! I'm only five feet tall, so no, I was not overly thin, and I always had hips! But if it never happens, my hubby still thinks I'm sexy, so I can live with this. Dianne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Bergdahl" To: Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 4:22 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Back view of GFD > Catherine Kinsey wrote: > > > > I caught a show on cable recently that talked about how, despite our American culture's obsession w/ the bust, men are really attracted to women whose hips are .7 larger than the waist. Had something to do with ideal child-bearing proportions and the subconcious instinct/need to propagate their genes :). Hmmmm, puts drum farthingales in a whole new light :)!!!! > > > > Catherine > > > > It also explains the hoop skirt, and bustle. It's interesting to me > that women work so hard these days to keep their hips small, but all > though history women have been trying to make their hips bigger. The > biggest complaint I hear from the Fort where we do 1846, is that the > dresses make their hips too big. Personally as a man I like a little > meat on my woman. Super skinny models just leave me cold. > > Stephen > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 22 23:38:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA32362 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 23:38:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3N2c2h12100; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 20:38:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3N2c1D12588; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 20:38:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3N2bKD12350 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 20:37:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA28463 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 22:57:54 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photos from GFD workshop In-Reply-To: <3CC4B446.26D442CE@in-tch.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 22:57:54 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO I wrote: > > > The youthful hair distracts people > > from seeing from the wrinkles. Sue replied: > You do *not* have wrinkles....., at least not that I recall..... See, it worked! --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 22 23:46:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA32394 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 23:46:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3N2j2h12439; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 20:45:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3N2j1D16040; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 20:45:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpdvg100.mx.net (cpdvg100.mx.net [165.212.8.100]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g3N2ilD15886 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 20:44:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 18946 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2002 02:45:19 -0000 Received: from uadvg143.cms.usa.net (165.212.11.143) by corprelay.cms.usa.net with SMTP; 23 Apr 2002 02:45:19 -0000 Received: USA.NET MXFirewall, messaging filters applied; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 02:44:29 GMT Received: from uwdvg008.cms.usa.net [165.212.8.8] by uadvg143.cms.usa.net via mtad (CM.1201.1.04A) with ESMTP id 288gDwcSC0436M43; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 02:44:28 GMT Message-ID: <20020423024445.27523.qmail@uwdvg008.cms.usa.net> Received: from 66.82.96.1 [66.82.96.1] by uwdvg008.cms.usa.net (USANET web-mailer CM.1201.3.01A); Tue, 23 Apr 2002 02:44:45 -0000 From: Leslie Calkum To: X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (CM.1201.3.01A) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g3N2ilD15886 Subject: [h-cost] Two questions Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 21:44:45 -0500 Status: RO Hi, The first question I am not really sure if it is on topic or not, but thought this would be the place to ask. Any way I was at my local college library the other day and they had on display some clothing from Singapore dated from the 1960's they were made from pineapple fabric. What is pineapple fabric? It looks almost like a linen to me. Now for the second question. I was looking through the travel section for my local paper and they had an article on an exhibit in Memphis, Tn on the Russian Czars. Has anyone been to see this yet? Is is worth the trip? The article said they have on exhibit the coronation robe that was made for the Empress Maria Alexandrovna in 1856 and by the picture in paper looks kind of interesting. They also have portraits, faberge eggs and lists others on display. Thank you in advanced, Leslie Now I will return to lurk mode. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 23 00:07:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA32497 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 00:07:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3N354h13746; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 21:05:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3N350D26077; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 21:05:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) id g3N34rj26038 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 21:04:53 -0600 (MDT) From: Elizabeth Lear To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Two questions Message-ID: <20020422210453.E17683@net.indra.com> References: <20020423024445.27523.qmail@uwdvg008.cms.usa.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020423024445.27523.qmail@uwdvg008.cms.usa.net> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 21:04:53 -0600 Status: RO Pineapple fabric is actually woven from fibers of pineapple leaves! My brother brought me some from the Philippines years ago - I remember it feeling a bit like very fine nylon. I found the following: http://shop.store.yahoo.com/mybarong/jusandpintra.html Piqa (Pineapple)-Weaving in Kalibo, Aklan Kalibo, the oldest town and capital of Aklan, enjoys the prestige of being the center of piqa cloth weaving in this province. Weaving in individual houses or backyards is concentrated, however, in the barrios of new and old Buswang and Bachao Sur. The Aklan piqa cloth is woven from the finest mature leaves of native pineapples, the wild pineapples called the Red Spanish variety. Two imported varieties, the Smooth Cayenne and Queen, have been reported to yield durable fibers for cloth weaving. Commercial pineapples do not yield a fiber with notable tensile strength. These wild pineapple plants are planted from the cuttings of the wild pineapple fruit and thrive best in open fields with sandy clay soil. After about a year from planting, three to five leaves are cut from each plant. These piqa plants are grown in the barrios of Banga, Altavas, Nabas and Tangalan. Stripping or extracting the fiber by hand from the plant is done rather crudely. Recently, the Philippine Textile Research Institute (PTRI), a government agency tasked with the research and development of textiles in the country, came up with a process that would extract the fiber from the leaf in a more convenient and efficient manner, that is, through a decorticating machine. Of course in those individual houses in the provinces, piqa fiber extraction is still done by hand. The green epidermal layer is scraped off the leaf by means of a coconut husk or a piece of broken china. The liniwan, being the finest fiber, is used for weaving the piqa cloth. The second layer, bastos, is a coarse fiber used in making strings or twine. The finer fiber is called piqukpok. All these fibers are combed to further clean them (usually by the river since it is believed that its water makes the strands whiter) and render them easy for handknotting into continuous strands. Since the individual stripped fiber is no longer than 30 inches, the fibers have to be knotted. This process is known in the dialect as pag-panug-ot, an utterly delicate and laborious task. A piece of bamboo is fashioned into a blade to cut off the end of each knot. The next step is warping. This is done on pegs struck in a board. Another laborious step, it usually takes 15 to 20 days to warp enough yarns to complete a "sucod" of 18 to 20 "bucos" or 54 to 60 meters of cloth. Pag-talinyas or spinning is likewise executed with a crude hand-operated bobbin winder which is turned by the right hand while the left hand drills the strand into a tiny mold made of reed or tabun-ak. These processes over, the weaver is now ready to face the loom, often as old as the first weaver in the family. The loom has foot-operated treadle with an extended overhead warp beam with two harnesses and two treadles. The warp is wound into the warp beam. Then it is treaded into the boddle (benting) reed or sucod. The benting allows the warp to open when the treadle is stepped on the feet. The sucod is used to press the weft to thicken the cloth. The thickness and width of the cloth is determined by the sucod. There are the 65, 70 and 80 types of winder. For instance, the 65 sucod produces a cloth of about 24 inches in width; 70 sucod, 29 inches, and the 80 sucod, 31 to 32 inches. Note that the bobbin with the weft is placed into the shuttle. The bobbin, incidentally, is held in place by a piece of coconut midrib. As the treadle is pressed by the feet, the warp opens and the shuttle is then thrown into the opening. Simultaneously the sucod is pressed into the cloth. Weaving the cloth continues with this cvcle. From the treadle with the feet, the weaver (usually a female) throws in the shuttle with the right hand, and then catches it with the left hand. Next she presses the sucod with the right hand. Then she presses the other treadle again with the feet, throwing the shuttle with the left hand and catching it with the right hand, and then pressing the sucod with the right hand. Dyeing the fiber to any desired color may be executed at this point. Normally piqa is beige or dirty white or ecru but dyed piqa produces blue or black piqa cloth. The result is equally dramatic and charming. In the olden days, the weavers decided on their own which design may be inlaid or embroidered into the thin as hair piqa fiber. Usually designs take the form of flowers, fruits, coconut trees, nipa huts or any other designs the weaver's creative imagination concocts. Either the designs are copied from cloths which have already been designed or inlaid into the fabric with the aid of a graphing paper. In the case of the latter, the design is made on the warp. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 23 00:24:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA32543 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 00:24:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3N3O4h14877; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 21:24:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3N3O1D02272; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 21:24:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3N3NOD02127 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 21:23:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m19.in-tch.com [216.166.191.19]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g3N3AcX27041 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 21:10:38 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3CC4D499.A87F10EB@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Back view of GFD References: <3CC4710A.A41CBDCA@2xtreme.net> <004b01c1ea6e$87665fa0$9e614e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 21:27:21 -0600 Status: RO I have some friends who are very slender, most are clustered around average, and some are heavy to very heavy. What seems to be most important for all of them, as individuals and in their relationships with their partners, is that they're happy and satisfied with what they are, whatever that may be. What ends up being unhappy and awkward and a damned shame, at least in my not very humble opinion, is when you wreck yourself trying to be something you're not. --Sue, climbing down off her soapbox so she can do dishes and have some time for lace making Dianne and Greg Stucki wrote: > > Well, I've gained thirty pounds since I met my DH (three babies and quitting > smoking will do that to ya!), and he doesn't seem any less interested in me > as a size 12 than he did as a size 2. I, on the other hand, rather liked > weighing 102 pounds and would love to get back there, or at least close! I'm > only five feet tall, so no, I was not overly thin, and I always had hips! > But if it never happens, my hubby still thinks I'm sexy, so I can live with > this. > > Dianne > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Stephen Bergdahl" > To: > Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 4:22 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Back view of GFD > > > Catherine Kinsey wrote: > > > > > > I caught a show on cable recently that talked about how, despite our > American culture's obsession w/ the bust, men are really attracted to women > whose hips are .7 larger than the waist. Had something to do with ideal > child-bearing proportions and the subconcious instinct/need to propagate > their genes :). Hmmmm, puts drum farthingales in a whole new light :)!!!! > > > > > > Catherine > > > > > > > It also explains the hoop skirt, and bustle. It's interesting to me > > that women work so hard these days to keep their hips small, but all > > though history women have been trying to make their hips bigger. The > > biggest complaint I hear from the Fort where we do 1846, is that the > > dresses make their hips too big. Personally as a man I like a little > > meat on my woman. Super skinny models just leave me cold. > > > > Stephen > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 23 00:25:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA32550 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 00:25:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3N3P1h14943; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 21:25:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3N3P0D02544; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 21:25:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3N3OED02328 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 21:24:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m19.in-tch.com [216.166.191.19]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g3N3BgX27368 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 21:11:42 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3CC4D50F.8FE21E96@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photos from GFD workshop References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 21:29:19 -0600 Status: RO Oooops....caught ..... --Sue, whose thin, fine hair is *still* jealous of Robin's..... Robin Netherton wrote: > > I wrote: > > > > > The youthful hair distracts people > > > from seeing from the wrinkles. > > Sue replied: > > You do *not* have wrinkles....., at least not that I recall..... > > See, it worked! > > --Robin > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 23 01:04:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA32686 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 01:04:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3N443h17145; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 22:04:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3N441D14273; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 22:04:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3N432D13927 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 22:03:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m19.in-tch.com [216.166.191.19]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g3N3oUX10060 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 21:50:30 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3CC4DE26.221B2DA9@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Favorite Costume Portrait and Your next project-Was:round of admiration References: <000501c1ea0f$5fcd8cc0$6501a8c0@Home> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 22:08:06 -0600 Status: RO I don't think I have a single favorite portrait, online or not. Heck, I can't even narrow it down to a century .....My generally-favored portrait *artists,* though, would be Bronzino and Holbein (the younger), especially Holbein, because I love the way he makes the people look like *people,* warts and all. I also like Sofonisba Anguissola's stuff, and the wonderful Cranach paintings in which the women have those marvelous hats with the huge feathers in them.... My current costuming project is making a Caraco jacket for a class I'm taking through Costume Classroom. It's a sky-blue linen, with a plain chintz lining, if I can find some d@rned chintz, or a thin silk lining, if I can't (I'm trying to keep costs down). I'm going to do pulled-thread embroidery on the ruffles for the sleeves (I have a couple of very cool books on pulled-thread embroidery). The petticoat will be rose-colored wool (instructor's suggestion). I've thought of quilting the petticoat, but it'll depend on how the wool takes to being quilted.... My next project, however, is an outfit for a 10th c. Norse outfit (western style, such as might have been worn by an Irish woman living in Dublin). I purchased the turtle brooches for the apron, and have a nice collection of appropriate beads and amber for the necklaces. I'll be making a linen cap and shift of plain (tabby-weave), 3.5 oz. linen. The gown and apron will be wool--which colors, I haven't yet decided, although they both will be twill weave (I have a pretty good stash, though). Dunno that I'll have time to do appropriate shoes, though, so they may have to wait a bit. And if I end up wanting a tablet-woven belt, I'll have to be trading with a friend for one, as I just *don't* have time to learn how to tablet weave ..... --sue > -----Original Message----- > > Hello. > I have wondered, if you would go for this topic! > If you have your favourite costume portrait online somewhere, please > give your adress and your admiration for this. Why do you choose this, > could you give some information of it and how would you make it today??? > > Any??? :-) > > Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 23 01:59:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA00347 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 01:59:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3N4w5h19550; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 22:58:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3N4w1D29195; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 22:58:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53.attbi.com [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3N4vSD29031 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 22:57:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from duck ([24.130.169.157]) by rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020423045722.KJIC12144.rwcrmhc53.attbi.com@duck> for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 04:57:22 +0000 Message-ID: <007901c1ea83$56316e60$9da98218@duck> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: References: <000501c1ea0f$5fcd8cc0$6501a8c0@Home> <064701c1ea3c$17bffd00$c5baee0c@mckiny1.tx.home.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Favorite Costume Portrait and Your next project MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 21:57:14 -0700 Status: RO Favorite costume portrait? You mean I have to pick just ONE? Okay, among the favorites would be: Tissot's "Too Early" -- http://sunsite.icm.edu.pl/cjackson/tissot/p-tissot16.htm (there's someone out there -- is it Cynthia Barnes? who once upon a time had an amazing repro of the pink dress from this painting) and Ingres' "Princess de Broglie" (http://www.marquise.de/1800/arte/a1853_1.shtml (just for the pleats in the skirt!) As far as current projects, again, you mean I'm only supposed to have one? I'm currently working on an 1890's ballgown with way too much bead embroidery (http://www.tweedlebop.com/kendra/costume/projects.html), and I just started the 1836-37 evening dress from Nancy Bradfield (http://www.tweedlebop.com/kendra/costume/1836.html). (Yes, Heather, I was inspired by that "Sew Wrong" site to start using blogs on my site!). Of course, this doesn't count all of the projects living in my head! - Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 23 02:21:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA28393 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 02:21:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3N5L1h20460; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 23:21:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3N5L0D05834; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 23:21:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com (dl.mixmeister.net [66.210.221.206]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3N5KTD05722 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 23:20:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id AF5327901DC; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 00:21:23 -0500 Message-ID: <002001c1ea86$7e8a61c0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <20020423024445.27523.qmail@uwdvg008.cms.usa.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Two questions X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 01:19:50 -0400 Status: RO Leslie, I think this is the exhibit that Susan, my assistant, went to a couple of years ago in Mobile, Alabama. If it is, she sent me some postcards from the exhibit. The gowns were beautiful! Susan, come out of lurking and tell all. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 23 04:07:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA28774 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 04:07:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3N771h24248; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 01:07:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3N770D01463; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 01:07:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sodium.golden.net (sodium.golden.net [199.166.210.252]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3N76FD01336 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 01:06:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from d7k7b6 (AS53-01-20.cas-ows.golden.net [216.209.7.20]) by sodium.golden.net (8.10.1/8.10.1) with SMTP id g3N76DW24084 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 03:06:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <002101c1ea95$d9a23ec0$1407d1d8@d7k7b6> From: "Five Rivers" To: References: <200204230325.g3N3P6D02596@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Subject: [h-cost] Re: spangles Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Five Rivers" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 03:08:15 -0400 Status: RO > *G* I finally found out that those period looking gold and silver spangles are easier to get a > hold of than I thought. Trick is to ask your local needlework store to order them from Kreinik... > don't know if kreinik sells directly or not. Kreinik do not sell directly, no. But we carry the spangles (the p-word you're looking for is paillettes.) :-) You can view and order them through our secure, online catalogue. URL in tagline. > They are the type formed by taking a nearly circle twist of wire and flattening... and will tarnish > eventually, but... The silver paillettes will most definitely tarnish, much sooner than the gold. The gold will tarnish as well, but it will take much longer. It is the high environmental pollutants that primarily contribute to this problem. The grade of gold they use is actually quite good, much better than the military grade that goes green. One might also remember when working with the paillettes, or any bullion thread for that matter, to minimize contact with your skin as much as possible, as your own oils can contribute greatly to the dulling of the gold. On a personal note, I work extensively with real gold thread (bullion) and have found by remaining scrupulously clean about my hands and my environment I greatly enhance the brilliance and longevity of the gold. Frankly, I loathe using mylars now, as they just don't create the same effect. Having said that, you can't wash or dry clean items that have been embellished with bullion, so that sort of inhibits creation of garments to be worn on a regular basis. My general rule of thumb is: if the garment is to be part of my regular repetoire of clothes, I use mylar threads as they handle delicate cycle and air drying very well. If the garment is an historical reproduction or an artpiece, I use the bullion thread and treat with care. We do offer courses in real metal work once a year here at the old stone house. You can view the slate of courses either through our Calendar on our website, or through the secure, online catalogue. And I'm always open to questions. Regards Lorina Five Rivers Chapmanry ~ purveyors of quality hand-crafted cooperage fine hand-sewn embroidered garments, historical sewing patterns & embroidery supplies (519) 799-5577, fax (519) 799-5418 http://www.5rivers.org email: info@5rivers.org _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 23 05:45:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA28964 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 05:45:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3N8i2h27584; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 02:44:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3N8i1D22784; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 02:44:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3N8huD22743 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 02:43:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.34.187]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GV000C0QIQGVM@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 01:39:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Two questions In-reply-to: <20020423024445.27523.qmail@uwdvg008.cms.usa.net> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020423013200.05023740@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 01:34:38 -0700 Status: RO >What is pineapple fabric? It >looks almost like a linen to me. Fabric made from pineapple fibre. I think they get it from the leaves. They use pineapple fibre cloth in the Phillipines too. >Now for the second question. I was looking through the travel section for my >local paper and they had an article on an exhibit in Memphis, Tn on the >Russian Czars. Has anyone been to see this yet? Is is worth the trip? The >article said they have on exhibit the coronation robe that was made for the >Empress Maria Alexandrovna in 1856 and by the picture in paper looks kind of >interesting. They also have portraits, faberge eggs and lists others on >display. Yes. I am sure it would be worth it for me anyway, and no, I haven't seen it. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 23 06:12:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA29088 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 06:12:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3N9C2h28422; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 03:12:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3N9C1D28839; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 03:12:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3N9BbD28713 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 03:11:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KGWE0WC1GG0157OG@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 10:14:22 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KGWE0VPR0I016UWC@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 10:14:21 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 23 Apr 2002 10:10:27 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 23 Apr 2002 10:10:14 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.81) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 10:10:09 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] visiting London In-reply-to: <200204221819.g3MIJpD27384@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 10:10:09 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > I didn't see the original post, so please excuse me if someone has > already mentioned this -- the Museum of London also has a dress > collection (not sure what's regularly on view). If you're up to a day > trip, you should head out to Bath to see the Museum of Dress! It's also worth pointing out htat if you want to arrange "behind the scenes" visits to see setuff that isn't on display, you should o so well in advance so that there's enough time book it and arrange a free slot on the days when they have someone available to be with you for such a visit. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 23 07:21:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA29369 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 07:21:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3NAL2h00261; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 04:21:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3NAL1D11101; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 04:21:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3NAKiD11062 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 04:20:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KGWGFIK4S000NTP5@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 11:23:26 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KGWGF8VN78017819@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 11:23:13 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 23 Apr 2002 11:19:18 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 23 Apr 2002 11:19:02 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.81) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 11:18:52 +0000 From: Teddy In-reply-to: <200204221819.g3MIJpD27384@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <107BF636E2@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] Re: Favorite Costume Portrait Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 11:18:52 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > Bjarne, I reposted this because I think it is such a fun topic, and I > think people are not picking up on the intention of the subject line. > I really want to hear what everyone else's favorites are. > > Hello. > > I have wondered, if you would go for this topic! > > If you have your favourite costume portrait online somewhere, > > please give your adress and your admiration for this. Why do you > > choose this, could you give some information of it and how would you > > make it today??? Thanks Saragrace, I missed this one entirely! OK.... erm.... do I actually have a favourite, or can I narrow down the ones I like to favourites.... Well there's the Swiss Guards in the righ-hand side of the Mass at Bolsena fresco by Rafaello. it's one of the walls over and around a door in Stanza di Eliodoro, Palazzi Pontifici in the Vatican. http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/search.cgi?author=&title=mass+bolsena& comment=&time=any&school=any&form=any&type=any&location= The details that shows the five kneeling men. I've mentioned it before and it's been one fo my favourite's for years but I've still not gotten around to makining an outfit liek these. I particularly liek the brown and green one in the foreground - all those alternating panels. I'm still nto sure about the opening of the bodice part of the.. what would you call that skirted overpart?... the jerkin? There's a picture by Lotto of St Dominic resuscitating Cardinal Fossonova's Nephiew (the Miracle of St Domonic) which shows suck a garment open/unfastened at the front with one side of it flapped back revealing the 3 stay-tapes holding the pleats inplace in the skirts and showing that the front opening is off-centre - to the left side of the front, but I've never found a large/colour reproduction of it that shows how it fastened, or what shape the side-front piece it fastens to is. There's a painting in the National Gallery in London (don't have the details of the artist or title of the paiting on me) that shows a small figure wearing a similar garment which is fastened across, has a left-front opening but the upper part is obscured by a cloak over the top and the lower part (not fully fastened, so you can see where it opens) appears to have cord or lacings spanning the gap - but no visible lacing holes or loops... if I recall correctly the lacing cord is gold coloured. That aside, I'd make the bodice part with a canvas interlinig for surdyness and I'd probably go with two differnet colours of velvet for the outer fabric.... The skirts/bases I'd cut on a circular pattern - to get those nice rounded pleats that aren't bulky at the waist but which flare out towards the hem. I'd devide the circle into 8 or 16 segments, and add seam, allowance to each panel, then cut out alternating panels of each colour for the main skirts and the same for the alternating coloured part on each of them.... it's be like sewing a circular patchwork together... The doublet beneath I lean towards doing like the one in the St Dominic picture, which seems to be slightly padded- quilted in vertical rows from the hem (at the waist) to the low neckline.... Although I suppose it could be a similar effect to the boices that are boned with hemp-cord which Jen, Sarah and Melissa have been experimenting with on their websites at.... http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/research/cording/cord.html http://homepage.mac.com/lithiate/1543pg2.html and http://www.sempstress.org/articles/pursuit_underpinnings.html which just occured to me as I was typing this.... And the sleeves would match this underdoublet, being full and puffy atth the top and narrowing down to a fairly fitted wrist-forearm, or possibly being paned in ypper and lower panes like the ones in another fresco in the Vatican. I would probably go with fitted sewn-hose like the ones i use for 15 century on the grounds that the lower haldf of them is all that will usually be seen. In the St Dominic painting the hose are differnet colours/fabrics in the upper and lower halves. Lower halves being fitted the upper ones being like slashed and pinked shorts - I'm not sure I'd have the patience to do all that slashing and pinking in a sturdily finished enough way to be easily washable - and 99percent of the garb I make is machine washable because otherwise it just doesn't get worn because dry cleaning is too much expense and aggrivation. This is, of course, assuming I ever get around to actually making the thing.... Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 23 08:38:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA29763 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 08:38:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3NBc2h02597; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 05:38:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3NBc1D27340; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 05:38:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpdvg100.mx.net (cpdvg100.mx.net [165.212.8.100]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g3NBbkD27300 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 05:37:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 8040 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2002 11:38:17 -0000 Received: from uadvg133.cms.usa.net (165.212.11.133) by corprelay.cms.usa.net with SMTP; 23 Apr 2002 11:38:17 -0000 Received: USA.NET MXFirewall, messaging filters applied; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 11:37:48 GMT Received: from uadvg137.cms.usa.net [165.212.8.16] by uadvg133.cms.usa.net via mtad (CM.1201.1.04A) with ESMTP id 376gDwLlr0453M33; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 11:37:43 GMT Message-ID: <20020423113738.18768.qmail@uadvg137.cms.usa.net> Received: from 66.82.96.10 [66.82.96.10] by uwdvg016.cms.usa.net (USANET web-mailer CM.1201.3.01A); Tue, 23 Apr 2002 11:37:38 -0000 From: Leslie Calkum To: Subject: Re: [Re: [h-cost] Two questions] X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (CM.1201.3.01A) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g3NBbkD27300 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 06:37:38 -0500 Status: RO Thank you do much. I keep looking at it and I really want to get into the case just so I can touch it. Leslie Elizabeth Lear wrote: Pineapple fabric is actually woven from fibers of pineapple leaves! My brother brought me some from the Philippines years ago - I remember it feeling a bit like very fine nylon. I found the following: http://shop.store.yahoo.com/mybarong/jusandpintra.html Piqa (Pineapple)-Weaving in Kalibo, Aklan Kalibo, the oldest town and capital of Aklan, enjoys the prestige of being the center of piqa cloth weaving in this province. Weaving in individual houses or backyards is concentrated, however, in the barrios of new and old Buswang and Bachao Sur. The Aklan piqa cloth is woven from the finest mature leaves of native pineapples, the wild pineapples called the Red Spanish variety. Two imported varieties, the Smooth Cayenne and Queen, have been reported to yield durable fibers for cloth weaving. Commercial pineapples do not yield a fiber with notable tensile strength. These wild pineapple plants are planted from the cuttings of the wild pineapple fruit and thrive best in open fields with sandy clay soil. After about a year from planting, three to five leaves are cut from each plant. These piqa plants are grown in the barrios of Banga, Altavas, Nabas and Tangalan. Stripping or extracting the fiber by hand from the plant is done rather crudely. Recently, the Philippine Textile Research Institute (PTRI), a government agency tasked with the research and development of textiles in the country, came up with a process that would extract the fiber from the leaf in a more convenient and efficient manner, that is, through a decorticating machine. Of course in those individual houses in the provinces, piqa fiber extraction is still done by hand. The green epidermal layer is scraped off the leaf by means of a coconut husk or a piece of broken china. The liniwan, being the finest fiber, is used for weaving the piqa cloth. The second layer, bastos, is a coarse fiber used in making strings or twine. The finer fiber is called piqukpok. All these fibers are combed to further clean them (usually by the river since it is believed that its water makes the strands whiter) and render them easy for handknotting into continuous strands. Since the individual stripped fiber is no longer than 30 inches, the fibers have to be knotted. This process is known in the dialect as pag-panug-ot, an utterly delicate and laborious task. A piece of bamboo is fashioned into a blade to cut off the end of each knot. The next step is warping. This is done on pegs struck in a board. Another laborious step, it usually takes 15 to 20 days to warp enough yarns to complete a "sucod" of 18 to 20 "bucos" or 54 to 60 meters of cloth. Pag-talinyas or spinning is likewise executed with a crude hand-operated bobbin winder which is turned by the right hand while the left hand drills the strand into a tiny mold made of reed or tabun-ak. These processes over, the weaver is now ready to face the loom, often as old as the first weaver in the family. The loom has foot-operated treadle with an extended overhead warp beam with two harnesses and two treadles. The warp is wound into the warp beam. Then it is treaded into the boddle (benting) reed or sucod. The benting allows the warp to open when the treadle is stepped on the feet. The sucod is used to press the weft to thicken the cloth. The thickness and width of the cloth is determined by the sucod. There are the 65, 70 and 80 types of winder. For instance, the 65 sucod produces a cloth of about 24 inches in width; 70 sucod, 29 inches, and the 80 sucod, 31 to 32 inches. Note that the bobbin with the weft is placed into the shuttle. The bobbin, incidentally, is held in place by a piece of coconut midrib. As the treadle is pressed by the feet, the warp opens and the shuttle is then thrown into the opening. Simultaneously the sucod is pressed into the cloth. Weaving the cloth continues with this cvcle. From the treadle with the feet, the weaver (usually a female) throws in the shuttle with the right hand, and then catches it with the left hand. Next she presses the sucod with the right hand. Then she presses the other treadle again with the feet, throwing the shuttle with the left hand and catching it with the right hand, and then pressing the sucod with the right hand. Dyeing the fiber to any desired color may be executed at this point. Normally piqa is beige or dirty white or ecru but dyed piqa produces blue or black piqa cloth. The result is equally dramatic and charming. In the olden days, the weavers decided on their own which design may be inlaid or embroidered into the thin as hair piqa fiber. Usually designs take the form of flowers, fruits, coconut trees, nipa huts or any other designs the weaver's creative imagination concocts. Either the designs are copied from cloths which have already been designed or inlaid into the fabric with the aid of a graphing paper. In the case of the latter, the design is made on the warp. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 23 09:23:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA30021 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:23:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3NCN1h04123; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 06:23:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3NCN0D07716; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 06:23:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r08.mx.aol.com (imo-r08.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.104]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3NCMCD07516 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 06:22:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Azelana@aol.com by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 7.5f.2645a7d9 (26117) for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 08:22:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Azelana@aol.com Message-ID: <5f.2645a7d9.29f6abea@aol.com> To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 124 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Were you an Online Costume Ball Guest? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 08:22:02 EDT Status: RO Never knew of this page before. Great pics! If you are on this list and was ever a "guest" at the Online Costume Ball, please send your year and guest number so I can put faces to these names! << http://www.netherton.net/robin >> --Gillian, who is sure to send pics for 2002... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 23 09:54:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA30330 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:54:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3NCs1h05553; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 06:54:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3NCs0D15927; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 06:54:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m04.mx.aol.com (imo-m04.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.7]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3NCrBD15708 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 06:53:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Azelana@aol.com by imo-m04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 7.2f.2628cc5e (26117) for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 08:53:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Azelana@aol.com Message-ID: <2f.2628cc5e.29f6b330@aol.com> To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 124 Subject: [h-cost] My next project Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 08:53:04 EDT Status: RO I'm currently working on a 1570's-ish English noblewoman's gown. I expect to finish within the month. It's made of today's "mockvelvet" (panne' that is not crushed nor stretchy), because I had a bolt of it in my stash that I got for $3/yd. The gown is cranberry, with black shoulder rolls and black forepart on the skirt. The forepart is latticed in gold trim and tiny pearl strand, with gold filigrees set with red rhinestones. The sleeves are latticed with black 1/4" ribbon accented with pearls at the crossings-- or maybe in the boxes, haven't decided. The overskirt is lined in ivory satin, as is the bodice. My motif for the bodice trim is inspired by the Pelican Portrait of Elizabeth I, so figure on jewels, pearls, and pinking. The partlet is done, minus a few beads. It has a lattice of "blackwork" which was actually just a fancy stitch on my sewing machine, with gold beads in the boxes and gold cluny lace on the collar band and down the front split. The ruffs are white with black edges; a full suit with wide neck ruff and smaller wristlets. This is my first attempt at something so formal for myself, since until recently joining the SCA I had nowhere to wear a full farthingale. My next project (for myself, since as a seamstress I am constantly sewing simpler stuff for other people) is my "Elizabethan fantasy" wedding dress. I have a sketch of that, but as I collect trims and fabric for accent-work, it could change. Wedding is next October (2003). --Gillian _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 23 10:30:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA30497 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 10:30:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3NDU6h07401; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 07:30:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3NDU1D26511; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 07:30:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3NDTDD26258 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 07:29:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.116.10238ff1 (4397) for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:29:03 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <116.10238ff1.29f6bb9f@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] My next project To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 138 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:29:03 EDT Status: RO I'm busy assembling things for my milliner's shop, circa 1816, here at the Riversdale House Museum. It will be based on ads for milliners' shops in Washington. I just finished a canezou--white cotton with pleated ruffle trim at neck and wrists--and a baby's cap--leftovers of white cotton sateen and Swiss embroidered trims. Have three straw hats to modify into bonnets and maybe another baby's cap and a lady's cap to finish. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 23 10:33:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA30511 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 10:33:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3NDX1h07598; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 07:33:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3NDX1D27565; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 07:33:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3NDW6D27269 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 07:32:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m163.in-tch.com [216.166.191.163]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g3NDIBX23205 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 07:18:11 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3CC56336.CF2606EE@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Favorite Costume Portrait and Your next project References: <000501c1ea0f$5fcd8cc0$6501a8c0@Home> <064701c1ea3c$17bffd00$c5baee0c@mckiny1.tx.home.com> <007901c1ea83$56316e60$9da98218@duck> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 07:35:50 -0600 Status: RO Ooooohhhh....pretty (well, I'm also partial to lavender ). Is that some sort of furry fringe on the bottom of the skirt in the fashion plate? --sue, completely victorian-ignorant.... Kendra Van Cleave wrote: > > As far as current projects, again, you mean I'm only supposed to have one? > I'm currently working on an 1890's ballgown with way too much bead > embroidery (http://www.tweedlebop.com/kendra/costume/projects.html), _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 23 10:33:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA30515 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 10:33:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3NDX9h07623; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 07:33:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3NDX7D27607; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 07:33:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m05.mx.aol.com (imo-m05.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3NDWkD27482 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 07:32:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.18d.6e878fd (4397) for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:32:30 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <18d.6e878fd.29f6bc6e@aol.com> To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 138 Subject: [h-cost] Costume Study Day Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:32:30 EDT Status: RO We will be having a costume study day at the Riversdale House Museum on June 13, 8:30-4:00. The theme is "Costume--Ideal and Real" and we will be looking at images and extant garments from 1800-1820. Collector Mary Doering, curator Alden O'Brien, and I will be conducting the program. Cost is $40, and includes lunch and a tour of the exhibit, "Dressing the Federal City." For more information, please e-mail me privately at ann.wass@pgparks.com. Ann Wass Riversdale House Museum 4811 Riverdale Rd. Riverdale Park MD 20737 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 23 11:17:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA30685 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 11:17:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3NEE7h10452; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 08:14:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3NEE0D12839; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 08:14:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3NEDxD12822 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 08:13:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=laptop) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17013O-0005jm-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 07:13:58 -0700 From: "Saragrace knauf" To: Organization: PII Message-ID: <000301c1ead0$0a255340$6501a8c0@Home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: <107BF636E2@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Importance: Normal Subject: [h-cost] Re: Favorite Costume Portrait-Teddy's Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 07:06:18 -0700 Status: RO This is one of my favorites as well. I wish I could find a man that would wear it so I could make it. I have an excellent handout from Julie Adams on the organ pipe pleating. In the past when folks have requested it, she has given me permission to send it to people. I ask that they send her the money (~$3 the last time). I would be really interested in the pictures you spoke of where the garment is somewhat open. When you have time....... . I'm still nto sure about the **opening of the **bodice part of the.. what would you call that skirted **overpart?... the **jerkin? ** Are you talking about the top part that is 'attached' to the military base? (assuming it is really attached-the pictures I have seen of them suggest they might be a separate piece). Hmm, good question. Doublet, jerkin, "bodice"???? ** - I'm not **sure I'd have the patience to do all that slashing and pinking in a **sturdily finished enough way to be easily washable - and 99percent **of the garb I make is machine washable because otherwise it just **doesn't get worn because dry cleaning is too much expense and **aggrivation. Now you make me wonder if the fraycheck slashing will hold up to washing. I did it on some cotton velvet, one layer, dried completely and then another. Then I slashed it. If you don't touch it, you'd never know it was there. I have also seen recently where someone did some in wool which they had felted somewhat. It was hanging in there very well. So glad that folks are responding. This is fun!! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 23 11:35:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA30776 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 11:35:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3NEZ1h12296; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 08:35:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3NEZ0D22648; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 08:35:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3NEYCD22321 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 08:34:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.34.187]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GV000DRKZ4ZEU@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 07:34:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020423065900.04f81140@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] advice wanted for next projects Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 07:33:51 -0700 Status: RO My next few scheduled costumes will be servant-wear from the mid-1800's to the early 1900's. Lately I have fallen in with the food prep folks at historical dance events. It bothered my sense of historical correctness to see our hostess, in satins and velvets, mopping up spills, so suddenly I needed something to wear which was practical enough to actually work in. I tend to wear the fanciest thing I can to events, and take pride in being better-dressed than the average participant (just a little ego here). But now I'm part of the help, and they dress simply by comparison with their mistress. My question is, how can I dress fancy enough to suit my inner sense of costume pride without getting above myself as a servant? What kinds of details can I put on costumes, which will show off and be unobtrusive at the same time? Servants can't get away with wearing expensive-looking fabrics or jewelry. Servants can't get away with wearing complicated trimming, fine embroidery, or lace. And servants can't get away with wearing the very latest style and cut of garments. What is left? My only guesses here are to use subtle handwork (like handmade buttonholes and single lines of tiny feather-stitching), little details (like pin-tucks, piping, and self-bias trim), and perfect tailoring. It doesn't seem like much, but I have never been a servant before. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 23 11:37:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA30791 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 11:37:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3NEbGh12497; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 08:37:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3NEbFD23677; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 08:37:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3NEaJD23204 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 08:36:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA31184 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 10:56:54 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Were you an Online Costume Ball Guest? In-Reply-To: <5f.2645a7d9.29f6abea@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 10:56:54 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Tue, 23 Apr 2002 Azelana@aol.com wrote: > Never knew of this page before. Great pics! If you are on this list > and was ever a "guest" at the Online Costume Ball, please send your > year and guest number so I can put faces to these names! Every year, after the Costume Ball goes up, there's a flurry of discussion on the list identifying who is whom. You can certainly find those discussions in the archives, at: http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/~fashion/archives You can search for the keyword "Ball" or "Costume Ball" in subject lines, or look for posts by Penny Ladnier (the hostess) and follow the threads she kicks off. The discussions occur usually in October. And the link you gave: > << http://www.netherton.net/robin >> ... is my own not-quite-a-webpage. The Costume Ball is at http://www.onlinecostumeball.com --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 23 12:09:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA30949 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 12:09:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3NF97h15838; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:09:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3NF95D10673; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:09:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3NF8gD10456 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:08:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from duck ([24.130.169.157]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020423150837.DTAO2377.rwcrmhc51.attbi.com@duck> for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 15:08:37 +0000 Message-ID: <003601c1ead8$ad2e6920$9da98218@duck> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: References: <4.3.1.2.20020423065900.04f81140@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] advice wanted for next projects MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 08:08:07 -0700 Status: RO That was going to be exactly what I'd suggest! Make sure you use a nice interlining, too (like organza) so that the fit is perfect. Those who sew will know how fabulous you are! - Kendra ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" Subject: [h-cost] advice wanted for next projects > My only guesses here are to use subtle handwork (like handmade buttonholes > and single lines of tiny feather-stitching), little details (like > pin-tucks, piping, and self-bias trim), and perfect tailoring. It doesn't > seem like much, but I have never been a servant before. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 23 12:12:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA30974 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 12:12:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3NFC8h16134; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:12:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3NFC7D12345; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:12:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3NFBJD11955 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:11:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from duck ([24.130.169.157]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020423151114.DVVL2377.rwcrmhc51.attbi.com@duck> for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 15:11:14 +0000 Message-ID: <004101c1ead9$0af49b10$9da98218@duck> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: References: <000501c1ea0f$5fcd8cc0$6501a8c0@Home> <064701c1ea3c$17bffd00$c5baee0c@mckiny1.tx.home.com> <007901c1ea83$56316e60$9da98218@duck> <3CC56336.CF2606EE@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Favorite Costume Portrait and Your next project MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 08:10:45 -0700 Status: RO It IS fur, amazingly enough. The description of the plate reads: "Fur shoulder-straps complete the square decollete... The graceful skirt falls in godet pleats, and is trimmed with embroidery and fur." It looks like a really dark, glossy fur -- beautiful in the drawing, but I'm going to skip it in my attempt. - Kendra ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Clemenger" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Favorite Costume Portrait and Your next project > Ooooohhhh....pretty (well, I'm also partial to lavender ). Is that > some sort of furry fringe on the bottom of the skirt in the fashion > plate? > --sue, completely victorian-ignorant.... > > Kendra Van Cleave wrote: > > > > As far as current projects, again, you mean I'm only supposed to have one? > > I'm currently working on an 1890's ballgown with way too much bead > > embroidery (http://www.tweedlebop.com/kendra/costume/projects.html), > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 23 12:17:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA31018 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 12:17:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3NFH1h16688; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:17:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3NFH0D15001; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:17:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53.attbi.com [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3NFGFD14617 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:16:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from duck ([24.130.169.157]) by rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020423151610.YXXR12144.rwcrmhc53.attbi.com@duck> for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 15:16:10 +0000 Message-ID: <000901c1ead9$bb711e00$9da98218@duck> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] Late 1830's skirt width Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 08:15:41 -0700 Status: RO I'm just in a flurry of posting! Okay, so I'm working on this dress from 1836-37: http://www.tweedlebop.com/kendra/costume/1836.html Now, the original dress was made for someone very small (21" waist). The original skirt width is 144", and I'm wondering how much more width I should add to the skirt to make it proportional for myself? I'm 5'11" and NOT a dainty flower (size 18-20). I'll be wearing it over a crinoline (petticoats) that needs a skirt over it of at least 120". Should I just aim for 145" so as not to have TOO much fullness over the crinoline? It seems like going higher (150", 160") brings the skirt into the 1850's -- I'm surprised at how full this skirt is for this early period. Any thoughts? - Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 23 12:18:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA31026 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 12:18:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3NFI1h16816; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:18:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3NFI0D15620; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:18:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fepZ.post.tele.dk (fepz.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.133]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3NFH2D15018 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:17:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from post12.tele.dk ([62.243.47.71]) by fepZ.post.tele.dk (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20020423141125.BTJP6796.fepZ.post.tele.dk@post12.tele.dk> for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 16:11:25 +0200 Message-ID: <3CC56BBA.7510B8C6@post12.tele.dk> From: Leif Drews X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Were you an Online Costume Ball Guest? References: <5f.2645a7d9.29f6abea@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 16:12:11 +0200 Status: RO Hi Gillian I was at the costume ball, but i dont remember wich number i had. I was wearing a cream coloured velvet suit for the year 1770. I wore a dark wig. Bjarne from Denmark Azelana@aol.com wrote: > Never knew of this page before. Great pics! If you are on this list and was > ever a "guest" at the Online Costume Ball, please send your year and guest > number so I can put faces to these names! > > << http://www.netherton.net/robin >> > > --Gillian, who is sure to send pics for 2002... > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Leif Drews boulevard 5, 3 th 1635 København V Bjarne Drews boulevard 5,3.th 1635 København V tlf. 35 37 13 70 My new domain name: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk Homepage: http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/~DeeDee_Revia/1index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 23 12:18:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA31030 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 12:18:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3NFI4h16835; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:18:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3NFI3D15668; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:18:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fepZ.post.tele.dk (fepz.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.133]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3NFH7D15085 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:17:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from post12.tele.dk ([62.243.47.71]) by fepZ.post.tele.dk (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20020423141150.BTOL6796.fepZ.post.tele.dk@post12.tele.dk> for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 16:11:51 +0200 Message-ID: <3CC56BD2.94C6C1BB@post12.tele.dk> From: Leif Drews X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Were you an Online Costume Ball Guest? References: <5f.2645a7d9.29f6abea@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 16:12:34 +0200 Status: RO Hi Gillian I was at the costume ball, but i dont remember wich number i had. I was wearing a cream coloured velvet suit for the year 1770. I wore a dark wig. Bjarne from Denmark Azelana@aol.com wrote: > Never knew of this page before. Great pics! If you are on this list and was > ever a "guest" at the Online Costume Ball, please send your year and guest > number so I can put faces to these names! > > << http://www.netherton.net/robin >> > > --Gillian, who is sure to send pics for 2002... > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Leif Drews boulevard 5, 3 th 1635 København V Bjarne Drews boulevard 5,3.th 1635 København V tlf. 35 37 13 70 My new domain name: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk Homepage: http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/~DeeDee_Revia/1index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 23 12:23:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA31111 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 12:23:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3NFN5h17390; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:23:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3NFN1D18411; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:23:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fepF.post.tele.dk (fepF.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.135]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3NFM8D17944 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:22:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from post12.tele.dk ([62.243.47.71]) by fepF.post.tele.dk (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20020423143942.GFFI16199.fepF.post.tele.dk@post12.tele.dk> for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 16:39:42 +0200 Message-ID: <3CC56BEA.B2484BA0@post12.tele.dk> From: Leif Drews X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Were you an Online Costume Ball Guest? References: <5f.2645a7d9.29f6abea@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 16:12:58 +0200 Status: RO Hi Gillian I was at the costume ball, but i dont remember wich number i had. I was wearing a cream coloured velvet suit for the year 1770. I wore a dark wig. Bjarne from Denmark Azelana@aol.com wrote: > Never knew of this page before. Great pics! If you are on this list and was > ever a "guest" at the Online Costume Ball, please send your year and guest > number so I can put faces to these names! > > << http://www.netherton.net/robin >> > > --Gillian, who is sure to send pics for 2002... > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Leif Drews boulevard 5, 3 th 1635 København V Bjarne Drews boulevard 5,3.th 1635 København V tlf. 35 37 13 70 My new domain name: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk Homepage: http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/~DeeDee_Revia/1index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 23 12:23:59 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA31118 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 12:23:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3NFNMh17429; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:23:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3NFNJD18585; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:23:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fepF.post.tele.dk (fepF.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.135]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3NFM8D17950 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:22:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from post12.tele.dk ([62.243.47.71]) by fepF.post.tele.dk (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20020423143954.GFGX16199.fepF.post.tele.dk@post12.tele.dk> for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 16:39:54 +0200 Message-ID: <3CC56BEA.B2484BA0@post12.tele.dk> From: Leif Drews X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Were you an Online Costume Ball Guest? References: <5f.2645a7d9.29f6abea@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 16:12:58 +0200 Status: RO Hi Gillian I was at the costume ball, but i dont remember wich number i had. I was wearing a cream coloured velvet suit for the year 1770. I wore a dark wig. Bjarne from Denmark Azelana@aol.com wrote: > Never knew of this page before. Great pics! If you are on this list and was > ever a "guest" at the Online Costume Ball, please send your year and guest > number so I can put faces to these names! > > << http://www.netherton.net/robin >> > > --Gillian, who is sure to send pics for 2002... > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Leif Drews boulevard 5, 3 th 1635 København V Bjarne Drews boulevard 5,3.th 1635 København V tlf. 35 37 13 70 My new domain name: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk Homepage: http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/~DeeDee_Revia/1index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 23 12:33:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA31167 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 12:33:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3NFX8h18722; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:33:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3NFX7D24576; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:33:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) id g3NFWYb24194; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:32:34 -0600 (MDT) From: Elizabeth Lear To: h-costume@net.indra.com, f-costume@net.indra.com Message-ID: <20020423093233.C29803@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Subject: [h-cost] duct tape gone wrong (or right?) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:32:34 -0600 Status: RO photo at: http://www.boston.com/news/daily/23/duct_tape_prom.htm SOLDIERS GROVE, Wis. -- Although Shaelyn Benson and David Daniels didn't spend much money on their prom outfits, they still attracted plenty of attention. The Wisconsin high school students crafted their Renaissance-style formals out of duct tape and say they only spent about $20 each. The outfits were a hit at the North Crawford High School prom and at a pre-prom dinner Saturday. "Everyone wanted pictures," Benson said. "I think I was the most photographed person there." The couple hopes to win a Stuck at the Prom contest sponsored by Duck Brand Duct Tape. First prize includes a $2,500 scholarship for each winner, and another $2,500. Benson said she created her dress over an old red prom dress that she cut apart and used as backing so her outfit would have some flexibility and movement. For detail, she cut out designs on the bodice in maroon colored duct tape. She also sewed in a zipper so she could easily get in and out of the dress. For her flowers, she carried a long-stemmed rose, also made out of duct tape. Daniels wore black with maroon trim. "We spent about 20 hours on my costume," he said, admitting that his mother did much of the work. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 23 12:43:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA31237 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 12:43:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3NFhBh19960; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:43:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3NFh7D00238; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:43:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3NFe4D28789 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:40:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ernie.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.243] helo=ernie.psp.pas.earthlink.net) by falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1702Oh-0007jR-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 08:40:03 -0700 Received: (from nobody@localhost) by ernie.psp.pas.earthlink.net (8.10.2+Sun/8.10.2) id g3NFdx308770 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 08:39:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Goodman To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Re: Were you an Online Costume Ball Guest? Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: 156.41.168.21 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: lithiate@earthlink.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 08:39:59 -0700 Status: RO I'm in Group 6, Guest 22 of the 2001 pics. Gold brocade Elizabethan gown, c. 1565. If Penny is listening, I have a wee suggestion... It would be neato if the costumer's real name is credited along with the costume. I recognized several people, but it would be nice to put more faces with names. :) Sarah > Never knew of this page before. Great pics! If you are on this list and was > ever a "guest" at the Online Costume Ball, please send your year and guest > number so I can put faces to these names! > > << http://www.netherton.net/robin >> > > --Gillian, who is sure to send pics for 2002... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 23 12:50:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA31314 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 12:50:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3NFo2h20678; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:50:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3NFo1D04641; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:50:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web14004.mail.yahoo.com (web14004.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.120]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g3NFnND04272 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:49:24 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020423154923.4937.qmail@web14004.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [12.22.49.34] by web14004.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 08:49:23 PDT From: Cin Subject: Re: [h-cost] Favorite Costume Portrait and Your next project To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <007901c1ea83$56316e60$9da98218@duck> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 08:49:23 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO > Tissot's "Too Early" -- > http://sunsite.icm.edu.pl/cjackson/tissot/p-tissot16.htm (there's someone > out there -- is it Cynthia Barnes? who once upon a time had an amazing > repro of the pink dress from this painting) Naw, T'warnt me. Pink?! Shirley Jollief had one. Lovely thing. ===== --cin Cynthia hysteria95126@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more http://games.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 23 12:51:14 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA31318 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 12:51:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3NFm2h20485; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:48:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3NFm1D03480; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:48:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3NFlTD03084 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:47:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ernie.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.243] helo=ernie.psp.pas.earthlink.net) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1702Vs-0001pV-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 08:47:28 -0700 Received: (from nobody@localhost) by ernie.psp.pas.earthlink.net (8.10.2+Sun/8.10.2) id g3NFlS409981 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 08:47:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Goodman To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] duct tape gone wrong (or right?) Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: 156.41.168.21 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: lithiate@earthlink.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 08:47:28 -0700 Status: RO That reminds me of a story... ;) See, for my sister's senior year she made a duct tape dress for her best friend to wear to senior ball. The story goes that Erin (the friend) was refusing to wear a dress to the ball, but Alex (my sister) was determined to get her into one at any cost. So after months of bickering about the subject, Erin finally caves in, but with one condition. She declares that the only way she'll wear a dress to the ball is if it's made out of duct tape. I believe she sincerely thought that Alex was not going to take her seriously and just give up the issue. But my sister is nothing if not stubborn. She made the dress, and a cumberbund and bow tie for Erin's date and yes, Erin wore the duct tape dress to the ball. This was 1999, and the very next year, some kid makes a duct tape outfit, submits pics to the company and is all over the media as an innovator in fashion. LOL. I'll have to find some pics and post them online of Erin's ballgown... It suited her perfectly. :) Sarah On Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:32:34 -0600 Elizabeth Lear wrote: photo at: http://www.boston.com/news/daily/23/duct_tape_prom.htm SOLDIERS GROVE, Wis. -- Although Shaelyn Benson and David Daniels didn't spend much money on their prom outfits, they still attracted plenty of attention. The Wisconsin high school students crafted their Renaissance-style formals out of duct tape and say they only spent about $20 each. The outfits were a hit at the North Crawford High School prom and at a pre-prom dinner Saturday. "Everyone wanted pictures," Benson said. "I think I was the most photographed person there." The couple hopes to win a Stuck at the Prom contest sponsored by Duck Brand Duct Tape. First prize includes a $2,500 scholarship for each winner, and another $2,500. Benson said she created her dress over an old red prom dress that she cut apart and used as backing so her outfit would have some flexibility and movement. For detail, she cut out designs on the bodice in maroon colored duct tape. She also sewed in a zipper so she could easily get in and out of the dress. For her flowers, she carried a long-stemmed rose, also made out of duct tape. Daniels wore black with maroon trim. "We spent about 20 hours on my costume," he said, admitting that his mother did much of the work. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 23 13:09:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA31410 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 13:09:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3NG92h23004; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 10:09:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3NG91D16206; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 10:09:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3NG8ED15638 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 10:08:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KGWSKG5M680182HU@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 17:11:00 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KGWSK5RTUA000L42@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 17:10:59 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 23 Apr 2002 17:07:03 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 23 Apr 2002 17:06:42 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.81) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 17:06:33 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Favorite Costume Portrait-Teddy's In-reply-to: <200204231551.g3NFpHD05399@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <16478B254F@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 17:06:33 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO Hi > This is one of my favorites as well. I wish I could find a man that > would wear it so I could make it. I have an excellent handout from > Julie Adams on the organ pipe pleating. In the past when folks have > requested it, she has given me permission to send it to people. I ask > that they send her the money (~$3 the last time). I would be really > interested in the pictures you spoke of where the garment is somewhat > open. When you have time....... I've not found it in any book on Ren art or on Lotto himself (seems to be one of the few consistently left out or reproduced too smal for the details to show - it's a small part of a large scene). There's a black and white repro of the figure in Dress in Italian painting, 1460-1500 (by) Elizabeth Birbari London : J Murray, 1975. ISBN: 0719524237 if you can get hold of a copy. It shows the 3 pleat-tapes in the skirt but not the fastenings up the front of the bodice The best colour image on the net of it was sent to me by a researcher friend who understands a little Italian.... http://www.accademiacarrara.bergamo.it/foto/acq01033.jpg but I can't get it big or clear enough (as it shows the whole picture) to show even the skirt tapes. None of this is helped by the fact that the figure is flat out on the ground with his head towards the viewer and his feet pointing away - not the best angle from which to view such details... Not sure I can even find the details of the National Gallery picture any more - I'll have to hope it's still on show next time I go so I can write them down again. Let me know if you turn up anything else. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 23 13:13:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA31451 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 13:13:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3NGD1h23438; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 10:13:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3NGD0D18823; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 10:13:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3NGCID18387 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 10:12:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KGWSPE1LJ4011LIC@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 17:14:59 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KGWSPCBBNS015DOJ@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 17:14:57 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 23 Apr 2002 17:11:01 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 23 Apr 2002 17:10:40 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.81) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 17:10:37 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Favorite Costume Portrait-Teddy's In-reply-to: <200204231551.g3NFpHD05399@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <16586B4F6B@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 17:10:37 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO Ooops! Hit send too soon!! > **I'm still not sure about the > **opening of the > **bodice part of the.. what would you call that skirted > **overpart?... the > **jerkin? > ** > > Are you talking about the top part that is 'attached' to the military > base? (assuming it is really attached-the pictures I have seen of them > suggest they might be a separate piece). Hmm, good question. > Doublet, jerkin, "bodice"???? Yes - and it's definately attachedin the St Dominic one (the garment is dlapped open as one joined piece at he front) and the National gallery one (the top of the skirt gaps at the same place the bodice does) > Now you make me wonder if the fraycheck slashing will hold up to > washing. I did it on some cotton velvet, one layer, dried > completely and then another. Then I slashed it. If you don't > touch it, you'd never know it was there. I have also seen recently > where someone did some in wool which they had felted somewhat. It > was hanging in there very well. The problem is I'd never get around to taking the risk if I weren't sure before I started. I'd hate to have gone to all that work only to spoil the garment the first time I threw it in the washer. > So glad that folks are responding. This is fun!! 'Tis indeed. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 23 13:40:59 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA03240 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 13:40:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3NGeLh26482; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 10:40:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3NGe1D05689; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 10:40:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3NGdeD05444 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 10:39:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.34.187]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GV100DV84Y4EK@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:39:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] advice wanted for next projects In-reply-to: <003601c1ead8$ad2e6920$9da98218@duck> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020423093609.00c12450@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <4.3.1.2.20020423065900.04f81140@mail.frys.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:36:54 -0700 Status: RO >Those who sew will know how fabulous you are! That's the look I am going for. We peacocks have to do something, even if we are helping in the kitchen. Thanx. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 23 13:50:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA03358 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 13:50:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3NGo2h27430; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 10:50:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3NGo1D11877; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 10:50:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3NGn5D11305 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 10:49:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=laptop) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1703TU-000578-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:49:04 -0700 From: "Saragrace knauf" To: Organization: PII Message-ID: <000201c1eae5$b4b5aca0$6501a8c0@Home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 In-Reply-To: <16478B254F@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Importance: Normal Subject: [h-cost] RE:Favorite Costume Portrait-Teddy's-we need help finding a better picture! Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:41:23 -0700 Status: RO >>That is very, very interesting. What a 'strange' picture. Do you think it is a massacre scene or plague??? So it looks like the bases are connected. Almost like a coat.........MMMMMM-very cool. Lets hope someone else reads this and has a better source (close up). You've stirred up my interest on this one. I've never seen this picture before!! Thanks Sg ** **I've not found it in any book on Ren art or on Lotto himself (seems **to be one of the few consistently left out or reproduced too smal for **the details to show - it's a small part of a large scene). There's a **black and white repro of the figure in ** **Dress in Italian painting, 1460-1500 (by) Elizabeth Birbari **London : J Murray, 1975. ISBN: 0719524237 ** **if you can get hold of a copy. It shows the 3 pleat-tapes in **the skirt **but not the fastenings up the front of the bodice ** **The best colour image on the net of it was sent to me by a **researcher friend who understands a little Italian.... ** **http://www.accademiacarrara.bergamo.it/foto/acq01033.jpg ** **but I can't get it big or clear enough (as it shows the whole **picture) **to show even the skirt tapes. ** **None of this is helped by the fact that the figure is flat out on the **ground with his head towards the viewer and his feet pointing away **- not the best angle from which to view such details... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 23 14:14:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA03516 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 14:14:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3NHDTh00393; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 11:13:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3NHDLD25109; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 11:13:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from carbon.btinternet.com (carbon.btinternet.com [194.73.73.92]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3NH98D23101 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 11:09:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host213-122-143-198.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.143.198] helo=dan) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 1703mt-0007SC-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 18:09:07 +0100 Message-ID: <00bb01c1eae9$c555d220$c68f7ad5@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [h-cost] Feast and Famine Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 18:10:28 +0100 Status: RO Hi everyone, I have just opened my h-cost file and found several million (OK, a couple of hundred, what with the weird double-posting effect apparently again raising it's menacing head) e-mails, many of them about the jewelled square, or the square of jewels. Thank you! The first time I raised this question I got the princely total of no answers... Naturally, this time they all arrived when I am frantically preparing costumes and crowns for the performance of Gigantomachia, or "The War of the Giants" for the Shakespeare's Birthday celebrations this last weekend. It went well, which slightly reconciled me to the fact that I had to miss the reenactors in the great Procession to lay flowers on Shakespeares grave, because I was filing off the last sharp bits on Mercury's winged headpiece, a task which I should have done after a lecture at the V&A on 16th century English silversmiths. Unfortunately, I got sidetracked ... And so it goes... So let me say thanks in advance of my going through all the posts; I'm very grateful. best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 23 15:41:29 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA04177 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 15:41:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3NIe5h10613; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 12:40:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3NIe0D18965; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 12:40:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fepE.post.tele.dk (fepE.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.137]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3NIdLD18606 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 12:39:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from post12.tele.dk ([195.215.190.254]) by fepE.post.tele.dk (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20020423183919.CKTB11457.fepE.post.tele.dk@post12.tele.dk> for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 20:39:19 +0200 Message-ID: <3CC56BEA.B2484BA0@post12.tele.dk> From: Leif Drews X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Were you an Online Costume Ball Guest? References: <5f.2645a7d9.29f6abea@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 16:12:58 +0200 Status: RO Hi Gillian I was at the costume ball, but i dont remember wich number i had. I was wearing a cream coloured velvet suit for the year 1770. I wore a dark wig. Bjarne from Denmark Azelana@aol.com wrote: > Never knew of this page before. Great pics! If you are on this list and was > ever a "guest" at the Online Costume Ball, please send your year and guest > number so I can put faces to these names! > > << http://www.netherton.net/robin >> > > --Gillian, who is sure to send pics for 2002... > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Leif Drews boulevard 5, 3 th 1635 København V Bjarne Drews boulevard 5,3.th 1635 København V tlf. 35 37 13 70 My new domain name: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk Homepage: http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/~DeeDee_Revia/1index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 23 15:43:00 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA04192 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 15:43:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3NIg8h10827; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 12:42:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3NIg6D20040; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 12:42:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fepE.post.tele.dk (fepE.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.137]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3NIfND19712 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 12:41:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from post12.tele.dk ([195.215.190.254]) by fepE.post.tele.dk (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20020423184123.CLHP11457.fepE.post.tele.dk@post12.tele.dk> for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 20:41:23 +0200 Message-ID: <3CC5AB01.221BE41E@post12.tele.dk> From: Leif Drews X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] where were you. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 20:42:09 +0200 Status: RO I apologise for the multible posts. It was my server who made that! Bjarne -- Leif Drews boulevard 5, 3 th 1635 København V Bjarne Drews boulevard 5,3.th 1635 København V tlf. 35 37 13 70 My new domain name: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk Homepage: http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/~DeeDee_Revia/1index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 23 15:52:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA04247 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 15:52:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3NIp2h11671; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 12:51:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3NIp0D24977; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 12:51:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fepE.post.tele.dk (fepE.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.137]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3NIo4D24463 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 12:50:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from post12.tele.dk ([195.215.190.254]) by fepE.post.tele.dk (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20020423185002.CNXX11457.fepE.post.tele.dk@post12.tele.dk> for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 20:50:02 +0200 Message-ID: <3CC5AD09.7296C489@post12.tele.dk> From: Leif Drews X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] advice wanted for next projects References: <4.3.1.2.20020423065900.04f81140@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20020423093609.00c12450@mail.frys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 20:50:49 +0200 Status: RO Dear Carolyn. Yes, this is very true, all the people who make clothes, usually looks after the seams and the stitching, so you just show them how clever you are. And also the cutting is very essential. Have fun!!! Bjarne Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > >Those who sew will know how fabulous you are! > > That's the look I am going for. We peacocks have to do something, even if > we are helping in the kitchen. Thanx. > > Kayta > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Leif Drews boulevard 5, 3 th 1635 København V Bjarne Drews boulevard 5,3.th 1635 København V tlf. 35 37 13 70 My new domain name: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk Homepage: http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/~DeeDee_Revia/1index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 23 19:21:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA05802 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 19:21:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3NMK5h03745; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 16:20:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3NMK0D21569; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 16:20:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fepZ.post.tele.dk (fepz.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.133]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3NMJqD21513 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 16:19:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from post12.tele.dk ([62.243.47.71]) by fepZ.post.tele.dk (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20020423141125.BTJP6796.fepZ.post.tele.dk@post12.tele.dk> for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 16:11:25 +0200 Message-ID: <3CC56BBA.7510B8C6@post12.tele.dk> From: Leif Drews X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Were you an Online Costume Ball Guest? References: <5f.2645a7d9.29f6abea@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 16:12:11 +0200 Status: RO Hi Gillian I was at the costume ball, but i dont remember wich number i had. I was wearing a cream coloured velvet suit for the year 1770. I wore a dark wig. Bjarne from Denmark Azelana@aol.com wrote: > Never knew of this page before. Great pics! If you are on this list and was > ever a "guest" at the Online Costume Ball, please send your year and guest > number so I can put faces to these names! > > << http://www.netherton.net/robin >> > > --Gillian, who is sure to send pics for 2002... > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Leif Drews boulevard 5, 3 th 1635 København V Bjarne Drews boulevard 5,3.th 1635 København V tlf. 35 37 13 70 My new domain name: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk Homepage: http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/~DeeDee_Revia/1index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 23 19:30:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA05829 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 19:30:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3NMSlh04645; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 16:28:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3NMSgD26090; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 16:28:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fepC.post.tele.dk (fepC.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.147]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3NMKGD21677 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 16:20:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from post12.tele.dk ([62.243.47.71]) by fepZ.post.tele.dk (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20020423141150.BTOL6796.fepZ.post.tele.dk@post12.tele.dk> for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 16:11:51 +0200 Message-ID: <3CC56BD2.94C6C1BB@post12.tele.dk> From: Leif Drews X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Were you an Online Costume Ball Guest? References: <5f.2645a7d9.29f6abea@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 16:12:34 +0200 Status: RO Hi Gillian I was at the costume ball, but i dont remember wich number i had. I was wearing a cream coloured velvet suit for the year 1770. I wore a dark wig. Bjarne from Denmark Azelana@aol.com wrote: > Never knew of this page before. Great pics! If you are on this list and was > ever a "guest" at the Online Costume Ball, please send your year and guest > number so I can put faces to these names! > > << http://www.netherton.net/robin >> > > --Gillian, who is sure to send pics for 2002... > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Leif Drews boulevard 5, 3 th 1635 København V Bjarne Drews boulevard 5,3.th 1635 København V tlf. 35 37 13 70 My new domain name: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk Homepage: http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/~DeeDee_Revia/1index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 23 20:03:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA05937 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 20:03:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3NN2Mh07436; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 17:02:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3NN1wD12410; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 17:02:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fepD.post.tele.dk (fepD.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.149]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3NMsdD08865 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 16:54:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from post12.tele.dk ([62.243.47.71]) by fepF.post.tele.dk (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20020423143942.GFFI16199.fepF.post.tele.dk@post12.tele.dk> for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 16:39:42 +0200 Message-ID: <3CC56BEA.B2484BA0@post12.tele.dk> From: Leif Drews X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Were you an Online Costume Ball Guest? References: <5f.2645a7d9.29f6abea@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 16:12:58 +0200 Status: RO Hi Gillian I was at the costume ball, but i dont remember wich number i had. I was wearing a cream coloured velvet suit for the year 1770. I wore a dark wig. Bjarne from Denmark Azelana@aol.com wrote: > Never knew of this page before. Great pics! If you are on this list and was > ever a "guest" at the Online Costume Ball, please send your year and guest > number so I can put faces to these names! > > << http://www.netherton.net/robin >> > > --Gillian, who is sure to send pics for 2002... > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Leif Drews boulevard 5, 3 th 1635 København V Bjarne Drews boulevard 5,3.th 1635 København V tlf. 35 37 13 70 My new domain name: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk Homepage: http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/~DeeDee_Revia/1index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 23 20:06:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA05953 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 20:06:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3NN5Rh07738; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 17:05:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3NN5QD14049; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 17:05:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fepH.post.tele.dk (fepH.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.141]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3NMt3D09071 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 16:55:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from post12.tele.dk ([62.243.47.71]) by fepF.post.tele.dk (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20020423143954.GFGX16199.fepF.post.tele.dk@post12.tele.dk> for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 16:39:54 +0200 Message-ID: <3CC56BEA.B2484BA0@post12.tele.dk> From: Leif Drews X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Were you an Online Costume Ball Guest? References: <5f.2645a7d9.29f6abea@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 16:12:58 +0200 Status: RO Hi Gillian I was at the costume ball, but i dont remember wich number i had. I was wearing a cream coloured velvet suit for the year 1770. I wore a dark wig. Bjarne from Denmark Azelana@aol.com wrote: > Never knew of this page before. Great pics! If you are on this list and was > ever a "guest" at the Online Costume Ball, please send your year and guest > number so I can put faces to these names! > > << http://www.netherton.net/robin >> > > --Gillian, who is sure to send pics for 2002... > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Leif Drews boulevard 5, 3 th 1635 København V Bjarne Drews boulevard 5,3.th 1635 København V tlf. 35 37 13 70 My new domain name: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk Homepage: http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/~DeeDee_Revia/1index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 23 20:20:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA06006 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 20:20:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3NNKAh08947; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 17:20:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3NNK8D20326; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 17:20:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fepZ.post.tele.dk (fepz.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.133]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3NN8MD15364 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 17:08:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from post12.tele.dk ([62.243.47.71]) by fepZ.post.tele.dk (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20020423150637.COPV6796.fepZ.post.tele.dk@post12.tele.dk> for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 17:06:37 +0200 Message-ID: <3CC56BEA.B2484BA0@post12.tele.dk> From: Leif Drews X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Were you an Online Costume Ball Guest? References: <5f.2645a7d9.29f6abea@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 16:12:58 +0200 Status: RO Hi Gillian I was at the costume ball, but i dont remember wich number i had. I was wearing a cream coloured velvet suit for the year 1770. I wore a dark wig. Bjarne from Denmark Azelana@aol.com wrote: > Never knew of this page before. Great pics! If you are on this list and was > ever a "guest" at the Online Costume Ball, please send your year and guest > number so I can put faces to these names! > > << http://www.netherton.net/robin >> > > --Gillian, who is sure to send pics for 2002... > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Leif Drews boulevard 5, 3 th 1635 København V Bjarne Drews boulevard 5,3.th 1635 København V tlf. 35 37 13 70 My new domain name: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk Homepage: http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/~DeeDee_Revia/1index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 23 20:38:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA06067 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 20:38:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3NNbuh10420; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 17:37:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3NNbpD27129; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 17:37:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fepZ.post.tele.dk (fepz.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.133]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3NNApD16425 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 17:10:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from post12.tele.dk ([62.243.47.71]) by fepZ.post.tele.dk (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20020423150615.COLZ6796.fepZ.post.tele.dk@post12.tele.dk> for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 17:06:15 +0200 Message-ID: <3CC56BEA.B2484BA0@post12.tele.dk> From: Leif Drews X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Were you an Online Costume Ball Guest? References: <5f.2645a7d9.29f6abea@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 16:12:58 +0200 Status: RO Hi Gillian I was at the costume ball, but i dont remember wich number i had. I was wearing a cream coloured velvet suit for the year 1770. I wore a dark wig. Bjarne from Denmark Azelana@aol.com wrote: > Never knew of this page before. Great pics! If you are on this list and was > ever a "guest" at the Online Costume Ball, please send your year and guest > number so I can put faces to these names! > > << http://www.netherton.net/robin >> > > --Gillian, who is sure to send pics for 2002... > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Leif Drews boulevard 5, 3 th 1635 København V Bjarne Drews boulevard 5,3.th 1635 København V tlf. 35 37 13 70 My new domain name: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk Homepage: http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/~DeeDee_Revia/1index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 23 21:12:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA06182 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 21:12:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3O0CBh12986; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 18:12:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3O0C9D10113; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 18:12:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web14006.mail.yahoo.com (web14006.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.122]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g3O00nD05966 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 18:00:49 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020424000048.60293.qmail@web14006.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [12.22.49.34] by web14006.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 17:00:48 PDT From: Cin Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hamburg Museum catalog To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200204212305.g3LN5pFt023378@saltmine.radix.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 17:00:48 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO --- Kevin + Mara Riley wrote: > I'm currently looking into German costume from the mid-18th century. Would > this catalog indicate at all how commoners' clothing in mid-18th c. Hamburg > would have been different from what the English and French were wearing at > the same time? "Commoners?" Not a bit. It's the "best of class" catalog. Definitely high-end, high society & haute couture. Think court, ballroom, diplomatic circles & attending the opera for the most part. There are women's gowns & men's suits from Germany, Austria, France & the UK. In your period you will find *maybe* 1 or 2 "at home" or "everyday" for the upper middle class (e.g. the gentleman farmer or the banker's wife). I'll look again when I get home, just to double check. Will left you know if I change my assessment. ===== --cin Cynthia hysteria95126@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more http://games.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 23 21:14:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA06190 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 21:14:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3O0E2h13153; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 18:14:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3O0E1D10826; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 18:14:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fepB.post.tele.dk (fepB.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.145]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3O0DRD10566 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 18:13:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from post12.tele.dk ([62.243.47.71]) by fepZ.post.tele.dk (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20020423150306.CNLG6796.fepZ.post.tele.dk@post12.tele.dk> for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 17:03:06 +0200 Message-ID: <3CC56BEA.B2484BA0@post12.tele.dk> From: Leif Drews X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Were you an Online Costume Ball Guest? References: <5f.2645a7d9.29f6abea@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 16:12:58 +0200 Status: RO Hi Gillian I was at the costume ball, but i dont remember wich number i had. I was wearing a cream coloured velvet suit for the year 1770. I wore a dark wig. Bjarne from Denmark Azelana@aol.com wrote: > Never knew of this page before. Great pics! If you are on this list and was > ever a "guest" at the Online Costume Ball, please send your year and guest > number so I can put faces to these names! > > << http://www.netherton.net/robin >> > > --Gillian, who is sure to send pics for 2002... > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Leif Drews boulevard 5, 3 th 1635 København V Bjarne Drews boulevard 5,3.th 1635 København V tlf. 35 37 13 70 My new domain name: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk Homepage: http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/~DeeDee_Revia/1index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 23 21:15:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA06198 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 21:15:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3O0F2h13217; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 18:15:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3O0F1D11144; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 18:15:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3O0EYD11027 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 18:14:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a257.in-tch.com [66.62.107.57]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g3O021904722 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 18:02:01 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3CC5FA19.18918A26@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] advice wanted for next projects References: <4.3.1.2.20020423065900.04f81140@mail.frys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 18:19:37 -0600 Status: RO Super-attention to *really* authentic details comes to mind, or perhaps making clothing for an upper-ranked servant....Or maybe something that looks like a *really nice* hand-me-down (did employers do that in the late 19th c.???) --sue Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > > My question is, how can I dress fancy enough to suit my inner sense of > costume pride without getting above myself as a servant? What kinds of > details can I put on costumes, which will show off and be unobtrusive at > the same time? Servants can't get away with wearing expensive-looking > fabrics or jewelry. Servants can't get away with wearing complicated > trimming, fine embroidery, or lace. And servants can't get away with > wearing the very latest style and cut of garments. What is left? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 23 21:20:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA06228 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 21:20:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3O0K4h13548; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 18:20:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3O0K1D12932; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 18:20:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3O0JKD12673 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 18:19:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a257.in-tch.com [66.62.107.57]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g3O06l905997 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 18:06:47 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3CC5FB3B.A1B1A2D9@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Late 1830's skirt width References: <000901c1ead9$bb711e00$9da98218@duck> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 18:24:27 -0600 Status: RO Hi. I'd look at the complete length of the original (was it made for an adult? a child?) to give yourself some sort of idea...and look at other garments (or patterns?) from the same time period, to give yourself an overall idea of the range of skirt widths. It would at least allow you to make an informed decision, whatever way you decide to go. I'd imagine that you wouldn't want to change the overall silhouette too much.....;-) --sue Kendra Van Cleave wrote: > > I'm just in a flurry of posting! > > Okay, so I'm working on this dress from 1836-37: > http://www.tweedlebop.com/kendra/costume/1836.html > > Now, the original dress was made for someone very small (21" waist). The > original skirt width is 144", and I'm wondering how much more width I should > add to the skirt to make it proportional for myself? I'm 5'11" and NOT a > dainty flower (size 18-20). I'll be wearing it over a crinoline > (petticoats) that needs a skirt over it of at least 120". Should I just aim > for 145" so as not to have TOO much fullness over the crinoline? It seems > like going higher (150", 160") brings the skirt into the 1850's -- I'm > surprised at how full this skirt is for this early period. > > Any thoughts? > > - Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 23 21:24:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA06242 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 21:24:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3O0N2h13783; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 18:23:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3O0N0D14092; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 18:23:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from clmboh1-smtp3.columbus.rr.com (clmboh1-smtp3.columbus.rr.com [65.24.0.112]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3O0MFD13842 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 18:22:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 39jz301 (dhcp065-024-177-132.columbus.rr.com [65.24.177.132]) by clmboh1-smtp3.columbus.rr.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id g3O0MEH17302 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 20:22:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <010401c1eb26$0da84260$84b11841@columbus.rr.com> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: References: <4.3.1.2.20020423065900.04f81140@mail.frys.com> <3CC5FA19.18918A26@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] advice wanted for next projects MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 20:21:54 -0400 Status: RO Greetings-- > > My question is, how can I dress fancy enough to suit my inner sense of > > costume pride without getting above myself as a servant? What kinds of > > details can I put on costumes, which will show off and be unobtrusive at > > the same time? Servants can't get away with wearing expensive-looking > > fabrics or jewelry. Sometimes the most common items are the hardest to find. That fabric that's just dead-on for color, weight, material, and weave. Those everyday items like buttons and lacings that we take for granted. All the right layers. The right shoes. The right headgear. Find out what the "costume jewellery" of the day was like, and add a well-chosen, well-placed piece. And most important of all, the right fit. I remember the first time I met Drea at Pennsic, looking like she had stepped out of a Flemish painting. Nothing fancy--solid working woman's clothing--but so *right*. Susan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 23 22:27:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA06515 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 22:27:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3O1R8h18006; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 19:27:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3O1R0D05888; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 19:27:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com (dl.mixmeister.net [66.210.221.206]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3O1QcD05787 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 19:26:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id AA061CB0212; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 20:27:34 -0500 Message-ID: <003201c1eb2e$ee1d38c0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <5f.2645a7d9.29f6abea@aol.com> <3CC56BEA.B2484BA0@post12.tele.dk> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Were you an Online Costume Ball Guest? X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 21:25:33 -0400 Status: RO Bjarne, I received this message from you via the list about six times. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Leif Drews" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 10:12 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Were you an Online Costume Ball Guest? > Hi Gillian > I was at the costume ball, but i dont remember wich number i had. I was wearing a > cream coloured velvet suit for the year 1770. I wore a dark wig. > > Bjarne from Denmark > > Azelana@aol.com wrote: > > > Never knew of this page before. Great pics! If you are on this list and was > > ever a "guest" at the Online Costume Ball, please send your year and guest > > number so I can put faces to these names! > > > > << http://www.netherton.net/robin >> > > > > --Gillian, who is sure to send pics for 2002... > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > -- > > > Leif Drews > Åboulevard 5, 3 th > 1635 København V > > Bjarne Drews > Åboulevard 5,3.th > 1635 København V > > tlf. 35 37 13 70 > > My new domain name: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > Homepage: http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph > > Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/~DeeDee_Revia/1index.html > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 23 23:02:00 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA06699 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 23:02:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3O213h20371; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 20:01:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3O210D16951; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 20:01:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lakemtao04.cox.net (lakemtao04.cox.net [68.1.17.241]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3O20TD16780 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 20:00:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from VMAAHQ ([68.10.161.53]) by lakemtao04.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with ESMTP id <20020424020023.TJLN3072.lakemtao04.cox.net@VMAAHQ> for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 22:00:23 -0400 From: "Linda Rice" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Were you an Online Costume Ball Guest? Message-ID: <000101c1eb33$a4d66ce0$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <003201c1eb2e$ee1d38c0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 21:59:12 -0400 Status: RO Only 6? I got it 12 times already! Bjarne, I think you might have a little problem. There are some new bugs going around, so be careful. Linda -----Original Message----- From: Penny Ladnier Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Were you an Online Costume Ball Guest? Bjarne, I received this message from you via the list about six times. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Leif Drews" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Were you an Online Costume Ball Guest? > Hi Gillian > I was at the costume ball, but i dont remember wich number i had. I was wearing a > cream coloured velvet suit for the year 1770. I wore a dark wig. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 23 23:19:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA06756 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 23:19:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3O2J5h21498; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 20:19:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3O2J2D22277; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 20:19:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3O2IbD22082 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 20:18:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.34.187]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GV1003JRVQY6B@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 19:18:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] advice wanted for next projects In-reply-to: <010401c1eb26$0da84260$84b11841@columbus.rr.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020423184654.04fd9e40@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <4.3.1.2.20020423065900.04f81140@mail.frys.com> <3CC5FA19.18918A26@in-tch.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 19:18:32 -0700 Status: RO Yes, this is very true, all the people who make clothes, usually looks after the seams and the stitching, so you just show them how clever you are. And also the cutting is very essential. -snip- Super-attention to *really* authentic details comes to mind -snip- >Sometimes the most common items are the hardest to find. That fabric that's >just dead-on for color, weight, material, and weave. Those everyday items >like buttons and lacings that we take for granted. All the right layers. The >right shoes. The right headgear. Find out what the "costume jewellery" of the day was like, and add a well-chosen, well-placed piece. And most important of all, the right fit. Thank you everyone who advised. I may go with a plain dark material, or subtle dark print, with many hand-worked buttonholes and antique buttons down the front, and an antique lace collar. I have a couple of 1880s costume jewelry bar pins, like for right at the base of the collar. Cut and fit and details - yes, I think I can do that. As it happens, I inherited a box of what I would call costume jewelry from my grandmother. She said costume jewelry meant semi-precious stones and sterling silver, rather than rubies, diamonds, sapphires, or emeralds, in solid gold. Amythests, garnets, topaz, and turquoise were semi-precious, according to her. There wasn't much of the stones-and-sterling stuff in the box, but there were several cool pieces of 'paste' set in gold plated metal. Aparently the stuff wasn't just hers, it was from other members of the family too. >I remember the first time I met Drea at >Pennsic, looking like she had stepped out of a Flemish painting. Nothing >fancy--solid working woman's clothing--but so *right*. I once went to an SCA event with a Ren. Faire friend who had never been to one, so we went in our Faire clothes. The friend said I was the only one there who looked like I was wearing clothes - and my costume wasn't even that good. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 23 23:37:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA06838 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 23:37:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3O2Z5h22583; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 20:35:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3O2Z2D27104; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 20:35:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3O2YjD27009 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 20:34:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.34.187]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GV1003EOWHW5R@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 19:34:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Late 1830's skirt width In-reply-to: <000901c1ead9$bb711e00$9da98218@duck> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020423193101.05035aa0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 19:32:33 -0700 Status: RO >I'm just in a flurry of posting! > >Okay, so I'm working on this dress from 1836-37: >http://www.tweedlebop.com/kendra/costume/1836.html >Any thoughts? Wear as small a crinoline as you can get away with, and do most of the fullness with stiff petticoats. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 24 01:16:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA07195 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 01:16:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3O4FHh28275; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 22:15:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3O4FAD26539; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 22:15:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3O4E3D26147 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 22:14:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-224-150-219.thegrid.net ([216.224.150.219]) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 170EAL-0000tM-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 21:14:01 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: [h-cost] ductape outfits From: Sarah Goodman To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20020423184654.04fd9e40@mail.frys.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 21:13:44 -0700 Status: RO http://home.earthlink.net/~lithiate/duct_tape.html In response to the earlier post about the duct tape prom outfits... I put some of the pictures of my sister's duct tape dress that she made for her friend in 1999. There are other photos from this past halloween that show a duct tape wig and my sister's "test" dress, but unfortunately I was unable to find them (I think said friend has the pics). :) Sarah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 24 01:37:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA07273 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 01:37:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3O4b6h29652; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 22:37:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3O4b4D02966; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 22:37:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com (dl.mixmeister.net [66.210.221.206]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3O4amD02875 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 22:36:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A69759A01A2; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 23:37:43 -0500 Message-ID: <001001c1eb49$8e434dc0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] ductape outfits X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 00:36:08 -0400 Status: RO I have a question????? Aren't these outfits hot to wear?????? Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 24 03:12:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA02959 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 03:12:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3O6C3h03892; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 00:12:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3O6C1D27150; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 00:12:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com (dl.mixmeister.net [66.210.221.206]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3O6BaD27023 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 00:11:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id ACD120C0202; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 01:12:33 -0500 Message-ID: <002901c1eb56$cb608620$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] Textile Mills Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 02:10:54 -0400 Status: RO I am still working with our Boy Scouts on their textile merit badges. I have three questions???? 1. Does anyone know the name of George Washington's boyhood home outside of Ft. A.P. Hill in Virginia. It is near Robert E. Lee's home on the Northern Neck. I know this is still a working plantation and they do the shearing of sheep, spinning of wool, etc. I thought it would be a good field trip for the boys. 2. Does anyone know the names of the active mills in North Carolina along the I-85 corridor... between Raleigh and Charlotte. I would like to take the boys on a field trip to some of the mills that spin and weave natural fibers. I know one is Burlington but does anyone know of others? My grandmother was a spinner in a Rock Hill, SC mill in 1900. But this mill is all closed up. When we had a CSA meeting in Raleigh, I meet a lady who was a color specialist at one of the mills. I can't recall her name. Did any of the other CSA members recall meeting this lady? Is Susan Eanes, the former curator from Waxhaw Museum, NC still on the list? Or does someone have her email address. Maybe she can help me with this. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 24 04:03:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA03098 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 04:03:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3O733h05561; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 01:03:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3O732D08540; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 01:03:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hirogen.kabelfoon.nl (hirogen.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.69]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3O72sD08488 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 01:02:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-fp02-222.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.121.222]) by hirogen.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD4927C67 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 09:02:49 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3CC65B42.67556D22@kabelfoon.nl> From: Deredere & Owen Iskander X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Were you an Online Costume Ball Guest? References: <5f.2645a7d9.29f6abea@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 09:14:11 +0200 Status: RO Hi, In 2001 I was guest 12, 19 and 24. And I will be back in 2002 :-) Greetings, Deredere Azelana@aol.com wrote: > Never knew of this page before. Great pics! If you are on this list and was > ever a "guest" at the Online Costume Ball, please send your year and guest > number so I can put faces to these names! > > << http://www.netherton.net/robin >> > > --Gillian, who is sure to send pics for 2002... > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 24 04:30:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA03212 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 04:30:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3O7U2h06211; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 01:30:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3O7U1D13873; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 01:30:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com (dl.mixmeister.net [66.210.221.206]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3O7TXD13765 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 01:29:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id AF1587E01F6; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 02:30:29 -0500 Message-ID: <005601c1eb61$ab6eb980$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <5f.2645a7d9.29f6abea@aol.com> <3CC65B42.67556D22@kabelfoon.nl> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Were you an Online Costume Ball Guest? X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 03:28:45 -0400 Status: RO Hello all! Sorry to be a little late on the thread... been sick with round #3 of the flu and a toothache. I swear the next time I take my kids to the doctor, a can of Lysol is going with me. I am glad you all are enjoying the Ball year round. I am already collecting graphics for the 2002 Ball. I never reveal who the people in the Ball are because I want it to be a mystery. From the very first year, in 1998, it has been a blast watching people trying to figure out who everyone else is. Now if you were at a real life ball wouldn't that be fun of the party... everyone in one room in costume, trying to figure out who the other guests are? I inform our guests that they may tell other people who they are, but my lips are sealed. Just like our mystery hosts over the past few years... I don't reveal them either. But there are lots of hints. LOL! Some of our guests enjoy being anonymous. I have already received several entries for the 2002 Ball. So if you want to send me an entry, be my guests. We advertise that we are accepting guests is between August-Sept. The deadline is always the third week in Sept. This gives me time to set the Ball up. Before you send me an entry, please send me a blank message, with the words, INCOMING BALL ENTRY in the subject line. Then send me the next message with the attachment of your entry. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 24 05:56:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA03552 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 05:56:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3O8u5h09116; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 02:56:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3O8u2D00737; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 02:56:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3O8tbD00660 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 02:55:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KGXRQCWGW0015KPS@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 09:58:18 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KGXRQBCWF600W7DJ@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 09:58:16 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 24 Apr 2002 09:54:20 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 24 Apr 2002 09:54:02 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.66) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 09:53:59 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE:Favorite Costume Portrait In-reply-to: <200204231802.g3NI24D26873@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <2711EB37D7@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 09:53:59 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > >>That is very, very interesting. What a 'strange' picture. Do you > think it is a massacre scene or plague??? So it looks like the bases > are connected. Almost like a coat.........MMMMMM-very cool. I'm not sure but I think he's been trampled by a horse - look to the right, there's another scene with him on the ground with a horse *very* close... I think it's one of those pictures that's supposed to tell the entire story in different scenes in the smae picture. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 24 06:10:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA03652 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 06:10:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3O9A2h09506; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 03:10:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3O9A1D03551; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 03:10:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3O99JD03412 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 03:09:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) id CAA03476 for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 02:27:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200204240927.CAA03476@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@net.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] striped fabric? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 02:27:57 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO There are tons of cutesy prints out there, but almost no plain old striped fabrics to be found. I'm looking for either silk, wool or cotton, black and white (so it can be dyed), 3/4" to 1" wide stripes. Simple, basic, utterly impossible to find. Silk would be the best, but at this point, I'd take anything dyeable. Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 24 09:10:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA04662 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 09:10:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3OCAGh15261; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 06:10:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3OCA2D07515; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 06:10:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m2.jersey.juno.com (m2.jersey.juno.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3OC9cD07379 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 06:09:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCqzHG++4LyxP7uOAl6VAbgwROfA83FyH5w=="> Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.jersey.juno.com (jqueuemail) id GY6L6PQH; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 08:08:11 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Were you an Online Costume Ball Guest? Message-ID: <20020424.070919.-399229.3.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3-5 From: seamstrix@juno.com Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 07:09:19 -0500 Status: RO If you look at the balls for 1999, 2000, and 2001, you can see me as Philadelphia Carey (real Court lady who I used to play at Bristol RenFaire) in various guises. I am also in two of the Balls as fantasy characters, but I'll let you try to figure that out for yourselves. 8-) Karen ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! 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For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 24 11:05:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA05343 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 11:05:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3OE44h21474; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 08:04:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3OE42D09894; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 08:04:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fepD.post.tele.dk (fepD.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.149]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3OE3UD09669 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 08:03:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from post12.tele.dk ([62.243.47.73]) by fepD.post.tele.dk (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20020424140328.MIZY7393.fepD.post.tele.dk@post12.tele.dk> for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 16:03:28 +0200 Message-ID: <3CC6BB5D.BC9A0B9B@post12.tele.dk> From: Leif Drews X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hamburg Museum catalog References: <20020424000048.60293.qmail@web14006.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 16:04:13 +0200 Status: RO Hello. Excuse me for getting into this disgussion, but do you think that swedish would be much different from german? I have just baught a book with swedish patterns. Many of those are domestic middle class i would say. There are many jacket patterns, some of those have T-shaped sleaves, cut one with the front and back, there is a robe a la polonaise with embroidery, but it is not luxury, pretty, but middle class, There are 10 jacket patterns to choose from, 1 Adrienne, early 18th.c.One of the jackets is a little more luxurious made in silk, it has a matching skirt and it is beautifully embroidered. Then i have a book with danish patterns, Denmark is living next to germany, and i think we had the fashion to come from france, trough Germany, so it maybe had a little german touch to it. But the danish book is only nobility and rich patterns, i am afraid. But try to think that the poorer people tryed to keep up with the rich, they just had to use different materials, and off cause they had to be more flexible, they had to work in the clothes. Bjarne Cin wrote: > --- Kevin + Mara Riley wrote: > > I'm currently looking into German costume from the mid-18th century. Would > > this catalog indicate at all how commoners' clothing in mid-18th c. Hamburg > > would have been different from what the English and French were wearing at > > the same time? > > "Commoners?" Not a bit. It's the "best of class" catalog. Definitely > high-end, high society & haute couture. Think court, ballroom, diplomatic > circles & attending the opera for the most part. There are women's gowns & > men's suits from Germany, Austria, France & the UK. In your period you will > find *maybe* 1 or 2 "at home" or "everyday" for the upper middle class (e.g. > the gentleman farmer or the banker's wife). I'll look again when I get home, > just to double check. Will left you know if I change my assessment. > > ===== > --cin > Cynthia > hysteria95126@yahoo.com > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more > http://games.yahoo.com/ > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Leif Drews boulevard 5, 3 th 1635 København V Bjarne Drews boulevard 5,3.th 1635 København V tlf. 35 37 13 70 My new domain name: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk Homepage: http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/~DeeDee_Revia/1index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 24 11:09:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA05369 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 11:09:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3OE91h21867; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 08:09:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3OE90D11902; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 08:09:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fepD.post.tele.dk (fepD.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.149]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3OE84D11510 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 08:08:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from post12.tele.dk ([62.243.47.73]) by fepD.post.tele.dk (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20020424140803.MKKT7393.fepD.post.tele.dk@post12.tele.dk> for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 16:08:03 +0200 Message-ID: <3CC6BC6F.ECA1B4B0@post12.tele.dk> From: Leif Drews X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Were you an Online Costume Ball Guest? References: <5f.2645a7d9.29f6abea@aol.com> <3CC56BEA.B2484BA0@post12.tele.dk> <003201c1eb2e$ee1d38c0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 16:08:47 +0200 Status: RO Dear Penny. Yes, and today there were even more. It was my server yesterday. I could not send any emails, and when it started to work again, i think my puter had tryed to send several times. Therefore it sended that many, (as many as i tryed to send, when it didnt work) Please forgive me, it was not intended....... Bjarne Penny Ladnier wrote: > Bjarne, > > I received this message from you via the list about six times. > > Penny Ladnier > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > http://www.costumegallery.com > http://www.costumeclassroom.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Leif Drews" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 10:12 AM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Were you an Online Costume Ball Guest? > > > Hi Gillian > > I was at the costume ball, but i dont remember wich number i had. I was > wearing a > > cream coloured velvet suit for the year 1770. I wore a dark wig. > > > > Bjarne from Denmark > > > > Azelana@aol.com wrote: > > > > > Never knew of this page before. Great pics! If you are on this list > and was > > > ever a "guest" at the Online Costume Ball, please send your year and > guest > > > number so I can put faces to these names! > > > > > > << http://www.netherton.net/robin >> > > > > > > --Gillian, who is sure to send pics for 2002... > > > _______________________________________________ > > > h-costume mailing list > > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > -- > > > > > > Leif Drews > > Åboulevard 5, 3 th > > 1635 København V > > > > Bjarne Drews > > Åboulevard 5,3.th > > 1635 København V > > > > tlf. 35 37 13 70 > > > > My new domain name: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > > > Homepage: http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph > > > > Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/~DeeDee_Revia/1index.html > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Leif Drews boulevard 5, 3 th 1635 København V Bjarne Drews boulevard 5,3.th 1635 København V tlf. 35 37 13 70 My new domain name: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk Homepage: http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/~DeeDee_Revia/1index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 24 11:20:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA05419 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 11:20:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3OEJ1h22740; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 08:19:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3OEJ0D16001; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 08:19:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3OEICD15650 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 08:18:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a240.in-tch.com [66.62.107.40]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g3OE5V924075 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 08:05:31 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3CC6BFCF.A094DBCB@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] striped fabric? References: <200204240927.CAA03476@gw.retro.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 08:23:11 -0600 Status: RO Speaking of striped fabrics, what time period would a sorta-pinstriped wool fabric be good for? I snagged a whole bunch of it at JoAnns just on General Hoarding Principles, but don't know what to use it for. It's fairly heavy (in between a suit-weight and a coat-weight), and sage green, with very narrow off-white woven pinstripes in it. --Sue, with too much loverly fabric....;-) Lee Thompson-Herbert wrote: > > There are tons of cutesy prints out there, but almost no plain old striped > fabrics to be found. I'm looking for either silk, wool or cotton, black > and white (so it can be dyed), 3/4" to 1" wide stripes. Simple, basic, > utterly impossible to find. Silk would be the best, but at this point, > I'd take anything dyeable. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 24 12:38:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA06031 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 12:38:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3OFc5h01143; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 09:38:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3OFc2D25775; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 09:38:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3OFb4D25188 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 09:37:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [136.152.193.0] (as-5-14.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.193.0]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.10.2) with ESMTP id g3OFSEx20332 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 08:28:14 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3CC5FB3B.A1B1A2D9@in-tch.com> References: <000901c1ead9$bb711e00$9da98218@duck> <3CC5FB3B.A1B1A2D9@in-tch.com> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] archaeological clothing from Mali (Africa) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 21:36:35 -0700 Status: RO In the library yesterday, I stumbled on a book that should be useful to _somebody_ in the historic costume community. Bolland, Rita. 1991. Tellem Textiles: Archeological finds from burial caves in Mali's Bandiagara cliff. Royal Tropical Institute, Amsterdam. ISBN 90-6832-224-9 The material covered in the book is from the 11-15th centuries and includes tunics, pants, and headware, with lots of construction diagrams and detail photos of fabrics. One of the fascinating (although not entirely surprising) features of the tunic design is certain stylistic similarities with medieval Arabic garments. If you know anybody interested in researching pre-modern sub-Saharan African clothing, put them onto this book! Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 24 14:46:19 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06738 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 14:46:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3OHjnh16779; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 11:45:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3OHjTD07857; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 11:45:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from carbon.btinternet.com (carbon.btinternet.com [194.73.73.92]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3OHiTD07292 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 11:44:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host213-122-73-124.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.73.124] helo=dan) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 170QoD-0000wH-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 18:44:18 +0100 Message-ID: <007301c1ebb7$d2e74940$7c497ad5@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [h-cost] Fashion books, late 19th early 20th Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 18:44:32 +0100 Status: RO Hi all, People may like to know abot Postscript Books, which has a web presence at www.psbooks.co.uk. I get the paper catalogue, which makes things a lot easier, since the site seems very slow. A couple of books may be of interest: http://www.psbooks.co.uk/BookDetails.asp?Code=15706&pg=Title+Search+Re sults&ur=Title%2Easp%3FTitle%3Dfashion%23Nav15706 and http://www.psbooks.co.uk/BookDetails.asp?Code=21123&pg=Title+Search+Re sults&ur=Title%2Easp%3FTitle%3Dfashion%23Nav21123 best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 24 16:22:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA07223 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 16:22:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3OJK5h26824; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 13:20:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3OJK3D29261; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 13:20:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fepD.post.tele.dk (fepD.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.149]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3OJJKD28759 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 13:19:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from post12.tele.dk ([195.215.190.78]) by fepD.post.tele.dk (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20020424191918.POUD7393.fepD.post.tele.dk@post12.tele.dk> for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 21:19:18 +0200 Message-ID: <3CC70562.A19A00BB@post12.tele.dk> From: Leif Drews X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fashion books, late 19th early 20th References: <007301c1ebb7$d2e74940$7c497ad5@dan> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 21:20:02 +0200 Status: RO Hello This one Gazette du bon ton, is gorgeous! I have it in another smaller pocket format book. Sometimes i wished i had a wife who reenacted this period. They are so charming and beautifull. And there are many possibillities for embroidery. I would ruin her, spoil her in dresses.. Bjarne Stevie Gamble wrote: > Hi all, > > People may like to know abot Postscript Books, which has a web > presence at www.psbooks.co.uk. > > I get the paper catalogue, which makes things a lot easier, since the > site seems very slow. A couple of books may be of interest: > > http://www.psbooks.co.uk/BookDetails.asp?Code=15706&pg=Title+Search+Re > sults&ur=Title%2Easp%3FTitle%3Dfashion%23Nav15706 > > and > > http://www.psbooks.co.uk/BookDetails.asp?Code=21123&pg=Title+Search+Re > sults&ur=Title%2Easp%3FTitle%3Dfashion%23Nav21123 > > best wishes > Stevie > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Leif Drews boulevard 5, 3 th 1635 København V Bjarne Drews boulevard 5,3.th 1635 København V tlf. 35 37 13 70 My new domain name: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk Homepage: http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/~DeeDee_Revia/1index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 24 16:30:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA07257 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 16:30:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3OJUEh27910; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 13:30:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3OJUDD05001; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 13:30:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3OJRXD03673 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 13:27:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.34.187]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GV3000C57DTUD@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 12:27:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fashion books, late 19th early 20th In-reply-to: <007301c1ebb7$d2e74940$7c497ad5@dan> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020424121141.0504c310@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 12:12:19 -0700 Status: RO >and > >http://www.psbooks.co.uk/BookDetails.asp?Code=21123&pg=Title+Search+Re >sults&ur=Title%2Easp%3FTitle%3Dfashion%23Nav21123 I have a two-volume set of things like this. There are other collections of them out there. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 24 16:32:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA07268 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 16:32:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3OJV1h28010; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 13:31:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3OJV0D05425; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 13:31:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fepD.post.tele.dk (fepD.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.149]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3OJUID05041 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 13:30:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from post12.tele.dk ([195.215.190.78]) by fepD.post.tele.dk (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20020424193017.PROP7393.fepD.post.tele.dk@post12.tele.dk> for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 21:30:17 +0200 Message-ID: <3CC707F4.C613772C@post12.tele.dk> From: Leif Drews X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] favourite portrait. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 21:31:01 +0200 Status: RO Hello. I should have started this, because it was me who asked. But tomorrow when i have time (my day off) ill post the picture to my homepage. My picture is not a portrait. It is a picture with 3 persons in it, well it is a kind of portrait. It is not period, because it is a painter from 19th century who made a theatrical portrait of the insane king, Christian VII, his queen Carolina Mathilda and the kings doctor, Struensee. The tragical story, because Struensee and Carolina Mathilda started an affair, she got pregnant and had a daughter. Struensee was executed. I like this picture because i think the painter caught the right atmosphere. And i read that he used real historical clothes for his models, to get the right look of the costumes. The painters name is Christian Zartmann. He made many historical scenes in his pictures, but i think it was very modern those days (19th century) to do that. I particular like the mens costume, shining dazling silk. I will post the picture tomorrow, promise Bjarne -- Leif Drews boulevard 5, 3 th 1635 København V Bjarne Drews boulevard 5,3.th 1635 København V tlf. 35 37 13 70 My new domain name: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk Homepage: http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/~DeeDee_Revia/1index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 24 16:35:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA07286 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 16:35:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3OJZEh28401; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 13:35:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3OJSnD04302; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 13:28:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3OJRUD03649 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 13:27:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.34.187]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GV3000C57DTUD@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 12:27:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] striped fabric? In-reply-to: <3CC6BFCF.A094DBCB@in-tch.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020424120943.0504bd20@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <200204240927.CAA03476@gw.retro.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 12:10:19 -0700 Status: RO >Speaking of striped fabrics, what time period would a sorta-pinstriped >wool fabric be good for? I snagged a whole bunch of it at JoAnns just on >General Hoarding Principles, but don't know what to use it for. It's >fairly heavy (in between a suit-weight and a coat-weight), and sage >green, with very narrow off-white woven pinstripes in it. Mary Quant, Carnaby Street 60's? Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 24 16:40:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA07302 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 16:40:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3OJe8h28841; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 13:40:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3OJe3D10096; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 13:40:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3OJdCD09661 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 13:39:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) id g3OJfDB19552 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 12:41:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200204241941.g3OJfDB19552@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] striped fabric? In-Reply-To: <3CC6BFCF.A094DBCB@in-tch.com> "from Sue Clemenger at Apr 24, 2002 08:23:11 am" To: h-costume@indra.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL82 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 12:41:13 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO it would be good for ME! oh ahem. I love sage green, it's so hard to find too. what was the bolt info? i wonder if I can find it in the bay area... > Speaking of striped fabrics, what time period would a sorta-pinstriped > wool fabric be good for? I snagged a whole bunch of it at JoAnns just on > General Hoarding Principles, but don't know what to use it for. It's > fairly heavy (in between a suit-weight and a coat-weight), and sage > green, with very narrow off-white woven pinstripes in it. > --Sue, with too much loverly fabric....;-) > > Lee Thompson-Herbert wrote: > > > > There are tons of cutesy prints out there, but almost no plain old striped > > fabrics to be found. I'm looking for either silk, wool or cotton, black > > and white (so it can be dyed), 3/4" to 1" wide stripes. Simple, basic, > > utterly impossible to find. Silk would be the best, but at this point, > > I'd take anything dyeable. > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 24 21:42:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA09424 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 21:42:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3P0g9h28815; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 18:42:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3P0g1723307; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 18:42:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3P0f6723016 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 18:41:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from duck ([24.130.169.157]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020425004042.MEWQ7777.rwcrmhc51.attbi.com@duck> for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 00:40:42 +0000 Message-ID: <004e01c1ebf1$c0039330$9da98218@duck> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: References: <200204240927.CAA03476@gw.retro.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] striped fabric? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 17:40:07 -0700 Status: RO Lee -- If you find any, let me know! I'm a FANATIC for stripes. You might call Thai Silks and see what they have. Sorry I'm not more help! - Kendra ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee Thompson-Herbert" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 2:27 AM Subject: [h-cost] striped fabric? > > There are tons of cutesy prints out there, but almost no plain old striped > fabrics to be found. I'm looking for either silk, wool or cotton, black > and white (so it can be dyed), 3/4" to 1" wide stripes. Simple, basic, > utterly impossible to find. Silk would be the best, but at this point, > I'd take anything dyeable. > > Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 > Head Muso, White Rats Morris > Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. > "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 24 21:47:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA09489 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 21:47:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3P0l3h29093; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 18:47:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3P0l1724913; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 18:47:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3P0kc724767 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 18:46:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) id SAA11162 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 18:05:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200204250105.SAA11162@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] striped fabric? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 18:05:16 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO > From: "Kendra Van Cleave" > > If you find any, let me know! I'm a FANATIC for stripes. You might call > Thai Silks and see what they have. Yup. Calling them and checking out Stone Mountain and Daughter tomorrow. I once managed to get a purple and black 1/4" stripe dupioni from them. There's one importer's website that shows exactly what I want...but they don't sell to the public. Grrr. I mean, there is is, right there: http://www.dannimports.com/Stripe/ Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 24 22:04:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA09664 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 22:04:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3P144h00247; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 19:04:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3P141700491; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 19:04:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from b.smtp-out.sonic.net (b.smtp-out.sonic.net [208.201.224.39]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g3P13r700431 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 19:03:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 23046 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2002 00:58:13 -0000 Received: from buzz.sonic.net (208.201.224.78) by b.smtp-out.sonic.net with SMTP; 25 Apr 2002 00:58:13 -0000 Received: from lavoltapress.com (d174.nas26.sonic.net [209.204.191.174]) by buzz.sonic.net (8.11.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id g3P13pl07517 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 18:03:51 -0700 X-envelope-info: Message-ID: <3CC756AF.CE9E12A0@lavoltapress.com> From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Book question Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 18:06:55 -0700 Status: RO Does anyone here use Maurice Leloir's _Histoire du costume de l'antiquite a 1914_, and if so in what manner? I just bought volumes 8-12 from an antique dealer. Fran --------------------------------------------- Visit our web pages! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and vintage dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Apr 24 23:58:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA10756 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 23:58:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3P2w3h07126; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 20:58:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3P2w1709286; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 20:58:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.60]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3P2v7708950 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 20:57:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 66-44-0-251.s251.apx1.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com ([66.44.0.251] helo=erols.com) by smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #10) id 170ZRR-0005jH-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 22:57:06 -0400 Message-ID: <3CC79ABC.3D52459C@erols.com> From: "David S. Mallinak" Organization: Red Dragon Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] advice wanted for next projects References: <4.3.1.2.20020423065900.04f81140@mail.frys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: matchlck@erols.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 22:57:16 -0700 Status: RO Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > My next few scheduled costumes will be servant-wear from the mid-1800's to > the early 1900's. Lately I have fallen in with the food prep folks at > historical dance events. It bothered my sense of historical correctness to > see our hostess, in satins and velvets, mopping up spills, so suddenly I > needed something to wear which was practical enough to actually work in. I > tend to wear the fanciest thing I can to events, and take pride in being > better-dressed than the average participant (just a little ego here). But > now I'm part of the help, and they dress simply by comparison with their > mistress. In my opinion, ... What servants would wear would depend on the situation. For a formal party, where the master and mistress would what to show off their wealth the servants would be in the house livery. The livery could be "simple" but made of fine material. The very well off might have have very elaborate livery with cords and lace. Also as the century progress the servant livery might be in old fashion style, especially in the conservative family. If the servants were just serving guest during the day the livery would probably be functional and in more current style. Again the very wealth may have what to our our eyes could be a uniform. My recommendation would be simple styles of fine fabric. Your humble and obedient servant, David S Mallinak _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 25 00:39:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA11166 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 00:39:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3P3d3h09732; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 21:39:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3P3d1722939; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 21:39:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3P3cM722790 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 21:38:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default.attbi.com ([24.245.40.181]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020425033817.UHFC7777.rwcrmhc51.attbi.com@default.attbi.com> for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 03:38:17 +0000 Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20020424223932.0302aeb0@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: dannw@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fashion books, late 19th early 20th In-Reply-To: <3CC70562.A19A00BB@post12.tele.dk> References: <007301c1ebb7$d2e74940$7c497ad5@dan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 22:41:07 -0500 Status: RO LOL! Oh Bjarne, if you ever wanted to do some of these dresses I'm sure you would have plenty of volunteers. Like me for example, I volunteer right now. : ) I love stuff from that period. Cheers, Danielle At 09:20 PM 4/24/2002 +0200, you wrote: >Hello > >This one Gazette du bon ton, is gorgeous! >I have it in another smaller pocket format book. Sometimes i wished i had >a wife who reenacted this period. They are so charming and beautifull. And >there are many possibillities for embroidery. I would ruin her, spoil her >in dresses.. > >Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 25 01:24:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA11656 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 01:24:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3P4O3h12154; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 22:24:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3P4O1706543; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 22:24:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from a.smtp-out.sonic.net (a.smtp-out.sonic.net [208.201.224.38]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g3P4Nc706440 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 22:23:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 13188 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2002 04:23:37 -0000 Received: from buzz.sonic.net (208.201.224.78) by a.smtp-out.sonic.net with SMTP; 25 Apr 2002 04:23:37 -0000 Received: from lavoltapress.com (d235.nas25.sonic.net [209.204.154.235]) by buzz.sonic.net (8.11.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id g3P4Nav15207 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 21:23:36 -0700 X-envelope-info: Message-ID: <3CC78580.4C2DBB7@lavoltapress.com> From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fashion books, late 19th early 20th References: <007301c1ebb7$d2e74940$7c497ad5@dan> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 21:26:40 -0700 Status: RO > > > http://www.psbooks.co.uk/BookDetails.asp?Code=21123&pg=Title+Search+Re > sults&ur=Title%2Easp%3FTitle%3Dfashion%23Nav21123 > If anyone is interested, this book (Parisian Fashion La Gazette du Bon Ton 1912-1925, by Alain Weill) is available at http://www.hamiltonbook.com Fran --------------------------------------------- Visit our web pages! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and vintage dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 25 04:04:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA08479 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 04:04:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3P743h19570; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 01:04:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3P741717056; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 01:04:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fepF.post.tele.dk (fepF.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.135]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3P73Q716945 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 01:03:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from post12.tele.dk ([62.243.47.49]) by fepF.post.tele.dk (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20020425070324.TXKU6037.fepF.post.tele.dk@post12.tele.dk> for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 09:03:24 +0200 Message-ID: <3CC7AA68.781530B8@post12.tele.dk> From: Leif Drews X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Book question References: <3CC756AF.CE9E12A0@lavoltapress.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 09:04:08 +0200 Status: RO Hello. I have used those books a lot. Mostly because there are many rare illustrations in it, and there are some old photos of actually garment putten to models. Particularly there is, as i recall it, a photo with a woman wearing a cavalier style dress, 1625-30 wich i have never seen anywhere else, with a standing collar. I dont own these books, but i have frequently studyed them at the library. The library would not allow me to lent the books, because they are rare. Congratulations with the catch! Bjarne Lavolta Press wrote: > Does anyone here use Maurice Leloir's _Histoire du costume de > l'antiquite a 1914_, and if so in what manner? I just bought volumes > 8-12 from an antique dealer. > > Fran > > --------------------------------------------- > Visit our web pages! > Books on historic costume and vintage clothes > http://www.lavoltapress.com > Historic and vintage dance > http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Leif Drews boulevard 5, 3 th 1635 København V Bjarne Drews boulevard 5,3.th 1635 København V tlf. 35 37 13 70 My new domain name: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk Homepage: http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/~DeeDee_Revia/1index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 25 05:10:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA09055 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 05:10:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3P8A5h22058; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 02:10:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3P8A1700839; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 02:10:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fepD.post.tele.dk (fepD.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.149]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3P89V700699 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 02:09:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from post12.tele.dk ([62.243.47.49]) by fepD.post.tele.dk (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20020425075843.UNAW7393.fepD.post.tele.dk@post12.tele.dk> for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 09:58:43 +0200 Message-ID: <3CC7B75E.3DAA8544@post12.tele.dk> From: Leif Drews X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] favourite portrait Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 09:59:26 +0200 Status: RO Hello. Now i uploaded the painting to my pages. It is my favourite picture, painted by Christian Zartman, a danish painter in 1872. It is a historical scene lokated at Hirschholm castle, north of Copenhagen. Here the queen and her lover, Struensee spended their best times together. The queen got pregnant with Struensee, and she had a daughter called Louise Augusta. She was never declared illegitimate. The poor queen suffered a lot because our king was insane. At the picture he is playing with a large parrot, you cant see, because i had to reduce the picture, my scanner was not big enough. I particular like the kings costume, this shining blue silk satin is gorgeous, wish i could get my hands to such a fabric. The painter used historical old clotses for his models, but as you can se, he didnt know that the queens dress is wrong. Ladies always had their sleaves to the elbows in 18th century, maybe it was because the dress was two small for the model, but i think that the bodice is wrong also, it is much two "Victorian", perhaps the dress is not old at all, but a retro copy of an 18th. century dress. I love this picture, in spite of the wrongness of the costumes, the mens costumes looks all right, but i dont think the shoes are right either, men didnt have that kind of heals on the shoes. Later it became known to the public about how the kings doctor cheated with the queen, also because of some political affairs he delt with. He had a big influence on the politics, because the king let him do whatever he wanted to, it is Struensee who made the press free in Denmark. Well struense lost his head, the queen was put to excile at Halle in Germany, she died a few years later. Her children stayed in Denmark. If i could get some of that shining silk satin in such a blue, i would make another embroidered suit........ Bjarne -- Leif Drews boulevard 5, 3 th 1635 København V Bjarne Drews boulevard 5,3.th 1635 København V tlf. 35 37 13 70 My new domain name: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk Homepage: http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/~DeeDee_Revia/1index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 25 05:11:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA09070 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 05:11:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3P8B1h22089; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 02:11:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3P8B0701063; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 02:11:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fepD.post.tele.dk (fepD.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.149]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3P8AX700968 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 02:10:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from post12.tele.dk ([62.243.47.49]) by fepD.post.tele.dk (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20020425075913.UNEP7393.fepD.post.tele.dk@post12.tele.dk> for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 09:59:13 +0200 Message-ID: <3CC7B77C.5C5CAD45@post12.tele.dk> From: Leif Drews X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] favourite portrait Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 09:59:56 +0200 Status: RO Hello. Now i uploaded the painting to my pages. It is my favourite picture, painted by Christian Zartman, a danish painter in 1872. It is a historical scene lokated at Hirschholm castle, north of Copenhagen. Here the queen and her lover, Struensee spended their best times together. The queen got pregnant with Struensee, and she had a daughter called Louise Augusta. She was never declared illegitimate. The poor queen suffered a lot because our king was insane. At the picture he is playing with a large parrot, you cant see, because i had to reduce the picture, my scanner was not big enough. I particular like the kings costume, this shining blue silk satin is gorgeous, wish i could get my hands to such a fabric. The painter used historical old clotses for his models, but as you can se, he didnt know that the queens dress is wrong. Ladies always had their sleaves to the elbows in 18th century, maybe it was because the dress was two small for the model, but i think that the bodice is wrong also, it is much two "Victorian", perhaps the dress is not old at all, but a retro copy of an 18th. century dress. I love this picture, in spite of the wrongness of the costumes, the mens costumes looks all right, but i dont think the shoes are right either, men didnt have that kind of heals on the shoes. Later it became known to the public about how the kings doctor cheated with the queen, also because of some political affairs he delt with. He had a big influence on the politics, because the king let him do whatever he wanted to, it is Struensee who made the press free in Denmark. Well struense lost his head, the queen was put to excile at Halle in Germany, she died a few years later. Her children stayed in Denmark. If i could get some of that shining silk satin in such a blue, i would make another embroidered suit........ The picture is here: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/zartman1.html Bjarne -- Leif Drews boulevard 5, 3 th 1635 København V Bjarne Drews boulevard 5,3.th 1635 København V tlf. 35 37 13 70 My new domain name: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk Homepage: http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/~DeeDee_Revia/1index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 25 06:14:19 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA09550 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 06:14:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3P9E2h23622; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 03:14:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3P9E0721123; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 03:14:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3P9D3714452 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 03:13:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KGZ6N6V2EO017OBX@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 10:15:40 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KGZ6MRO17A014UN3@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 10:15:21 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Thu, 25 Apr 2002 10:11:20 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Thu, 25 Apr 2002 10:10:47 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.73) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 10:10:45 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] striped fabric? In-reply-to: <200204241802.g3OI2PD17762@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <3F5A1022E0@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 10:10:45 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > Speaking of striped fabrics, what time period would a sorta-pinstriped > wool fabric be good for? I snagged a whole bunch of it at JoAnns just > on General Hoarding Principles, but don't know what to use it for. > It's fairly heavy (in between a suit-weight and a coat-weight), and > sage green, with very narrow off-white woven pinstripes in it. --Sue, > with too much loverly fabric....;-) I'm not an expert on the period, but I'd use it for an Edwardian walking suit.... with some of the panels or details like cuffs and lapels etc on the diagonal for decorative effect. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 25 07:05:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA10136 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 07:05:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3PA55h24953; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 04:05:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3PA51720979; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 04:05:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3PA4W720887 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 04:04:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.34.187]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GV400IXMBZGRB@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 03:04:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] advice wanted for next projects In-reply-to: <3CC79ABC.3D52459C@erols.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020425004847.04f876d0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <4.3.1.2.20020423065900.04f81140@mail.frys.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 03:04:21 -0700 Status: RO I've just been thru all my Charles Dana Gibson from 1890 to 1900. There are zero women servants at evening events, only men. And there are no women in anything resembling livery, unless you count maids' aprons. So there doesn't seem to be a correct thing for me to wear as a female servant keeping the buffet supplied at an evening dance. I'll probably do a parlour maid outfit instead, in a solid colour or dark stripe rather than a print. Gibson's ladies' maids seem to be dressed in the current style, altho not as stylishly as their mistresses, but ten years of his parlour maids all seem to be wearing the same apron, dress, and collar. I am reliably informed that a front-parlour maid, the one guests might see, is the best dressed of the lot. This would fit exactly with all the good advice I have gotten so far. I'm beginning to think a lace collar and cuffs will be too much if I am going to wear that one piece of subtle jewelry. I'm not sure I want to use the antique metal buttons I have 17 of, or the square pinkish-gold mother-of-pearl ones I only have 5 of (and fake it under the apron), but I don't have enough of anything else but modern black glass ones, and they may be too severe, too mourning. But I am going to have to do perfect hand-stitched buttonholes. Meanwhile, all Gibson's male servants, and waiters in restaurants, are wearing about the same as what his male guests are wearing in the evening. I've seen male servants in pseudo-Georgian (in later illos by different artists), complete with white wigs. > > My next few scheduled costumes will be servant-wear from the mid-1800's to > > the early 1900's. >In my opinion, ... >What servants would wear would depend on the situation. For a formal >party, where the master and mistress would what to show off their wealth >the servants would be in the house livery. The livery could be "simple" >but made of fine material. The very well off might have have very elaborate >livery with cords and lace. Also as the century progress the servant >livery might be in old fashion style, especially in the conservative >family. > >If the servants were just serving guest during the day the livery would >probably be functional and in more current style. Again the very wealth may >have what to our our eyes could be a uniform. > >My recommendation would be simple styles of fine fabric. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 25 07:12:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA10196 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 07:12:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3PAC2h25105; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 04:12:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3PAC1722301; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 04:12:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3PABd722223 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 04:11:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.34.187]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GV400IR9CBBR8@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 03:11:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] favourite portrait In-reply-to: <3CC7B77C.5C5CAD45@post12.tele.dk> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020425031010.04fe3eb0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 03:11:20 -0700 Status: RO >The painter used historical old clotses for his models, but as you can >se, he didnt know that the queens dress is wrong. Ladies always had >their sleaves to the elbows in 18th century, maybe it was because the >dress was two small for the model, but i think that the bodice is wrong >also, it is much two "Victorian", perhaps the dress is not old at all, >but a retro copy of an 18th. century dress. The Queen's dress does look Victorian. I don't know where the painter got it either. >I love this picture, in spite of the wrongness of the costumes, the mens >costumes looks all right, but i dont think the shoes are right either, >men didnt have that kind of heals on the shoes. The heels look very 1601. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 25 07:22:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA10366 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 07:22:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3PAM2h25380; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 04:22:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3PAM0724462; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 04:22:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp1.ihug.co.nz (smtp1.ihug.co.nz [203.109.252.7]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3PALA724264 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 04:21:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p169-nas3.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.199.169] by smtp1.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1 (Debian)) id 170gN9-0007nq-00; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 22:21:08 +1200 Message-ID: <000f01c1ec42$ea71d590$a9c7adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: <4.3.1.2.20020423065900.04f81140@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20020425004847.04f876d0@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] advice wanted for next projects MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 22:21:07 +1200 Status: RO > I'll probably do a parlour maid outfit instead, in a solid colour or dark > stripe rather than a print. Gibson's ladies' maids seem to be dressed in > the current style, altho not as stylishly as their mistresses, but ten > years of his parlour maids all seem to be wearing the same apron, dress, > and collar. I am reliably informed that a front-parlour maid, the one > guests might see, is the best dressed of the lot. This would fit exactly > with all the good advice I have gotten so far. I saw in a late victorian print a maid wearing a pink outfit, with the usual white apron cap and cuffs. This was in a book about the victorian household. I'm not exactly sure where about she was in terms of rank, but I know it was a public part of the house where she would be seen by guests. She was quite young too. Have you ever seen Upstairs Downstairs? It was set in the teens, and showed all ranks of servants from scullery maid to butler. It replays here quite frequently, and though looking back on it it screams the years it was produced, it certainly is a very good source. I can't recall the producers of the series, but a search of it should bring some info:). michaela _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 25 07:41:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA10579 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 07:41:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3PAf3h25898; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 04:41:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3PAf1728193; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 04:41:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from studorg.hiof.no (IDENT:bmmhR5GlkkvYPpg3tdngK2k8fjGuOZOc@studorg.hiof.no [158.36.33.137]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3PAeL728056 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 04:40:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (ingridgs@localhost) by studorg.hiof.no (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g3PAeJ813986 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 12:40:19 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ingrid_G=2E_Storr=F8?= To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <3CC7AA68.781530B8@post12.tele.dk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] Fabric and tailors in Thailand? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 12:40:19 +0200 (CEST) Status: RO Hello, list! This is not entirely on the topic of historic costume, but you guys are the best crowd I know to ask - and hey, at least it partly relates to costuming. :) I've checked the archives but couldn't find what I'm looking for, so here goes: I've started planning a trip to Thailand next year, and of course I need to increase my fabric stash, and support the local tailoring industry. :) Textile museums would be great too, but are not as important as actually buying stuff this time around. My main concern is: where to go? I haven't decided which part of the country to go to yet, but my main focus for the trip is to get clothes made and buy fabric. Is there any region or city that's especially good to go to for these puropses? Does anyone have any tips for how to find good tailors (apart from acually walking into the shop and looking at their work)? Does anyone have any concept of how much one should expect to pay for different types of fabric, tailoring services, etc? Any help would be greatly appreciated - I dream of cool, tailor made clothes for normal wear, and heaps of silks and otehr fabric for a multitude of historic costumes. :D Ingrid _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 25 11:04:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13504 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 11:04:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3PE49h04855; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 08:04:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3PE41717867; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 08:04:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fepE.post.tele.dk (fepE.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.137]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3PE3Y717657 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 08:03:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from post12.tele.dk ([62.243.47.223]) by fepE.post.tele.dk (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20020425140331.ELVK11457.fepE.post.tele.dk@post12.tele.dk> for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 16:03:31 +0200 Message-ID: <3CC80CDD.25165551@post12.tele.dk> From: Leif Drews X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] wedding suit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 16:04:14 +0200 Status: RO Hello. Got the pattern for GustavIII's wedding suit today, Jubiiiiiii!!! It is gorgeous, made on thick paper Best thing of it all, it is almost my size!!!! Very lucky to be a small man, Well there were no details for the embroidery (grrrrrrr) but, i suppose i would never be able to make that anyway. Well this is going to be my next project. Then there is this embroidery pattern from "Art of the Embroiderer" by Sct. Aubin I think i could use this. It will require a lot of spangels, but this will be a several years project like my old one, and then i think i can afford it. This time i think i want to use silver, although it tarnish quicker than gold, but i dont think the spangels would tarnish as quickly as thread, dont know? The wedding suit and the embroidery is here: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/weddingsuit.html I have only published the picture for this list, and you know i think there is a copy right for the picture, so it is in your own risk, if you use it somewhere. I will take it down soon again. It is a gorgeous costume, with full sides, almost a whole sun. Now i must chase for a really beautifull silk, i want a pale grey one. Bjarne -- Leif Drews boulevard 5, 3 th 1635 København V Bjarne Drews boulevard 5,3.th 1635 København V tlf. 35 37 13 70 My new domain name: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk Homepage: http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/~DeeDee_Revia/1index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 25 12:15:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA14179 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 12:15:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3PFFIh12092; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 09:15:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3PFDB717621; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 09:13:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3PF1k712767 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 09:01:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a26.in-tch.com [66.62.107.6]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g3PDtS905987 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 07:55:28 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3CC80EF5.90B8F2BD@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] striped fabric? References: <200204241941.g3OJfDB19552@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 08:13:09 -0600 Status: RO Sorry, Heather, it wasn't on a bolt....it was all wadded up in the cheapo flatfolds section--probably originally meant to be some sort of decorator fabric. --sue, fabric owner Heather Meadows wrote: > > it would be good for ME! oh ahem. I love sage green, it's so hard to find too. > > what was the bolt info? i wonder if I can find it in the bay area... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 25 13:16:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA14692 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 13:16:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3PGGKh20279; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 10:16:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3PGG1j28921; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 10:16:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3PGFhj28674 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 10:15:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dnyeaqvf (r13p178.directcon.net [209.233.107.178]) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id g3PGF8na016700; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 09:15:10 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020425083221.00bc7600@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com, From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] advice wanted for next projects In-Reply-To: <000f01c1ec42$ea71d590$a9c7adcb@michaela> References: <4.3.1.2.20020423065900.04f81140@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20020425004847.04f876d0@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 08:32:21 -0700 Status: RO At 10:21 PM 04/25/2002 +1200, michaela wrote: >> I'll probably do a parlour maid outfit instead, in a solid colour or dark >> stripe rather than a print. It's my understanding, mostly gleaned from reading old ettiquette books, that print dresses were worn by servants in the daytime. In the late afternoon and evening, they wore more formal solid dark colors. This is for "front of the house" staff. Kitchen maids and the like, who would not be seen by the gentry, wore print dresses all the time. Margo "One Tough Costumer" See the Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 25 13:50:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA15056 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 13:50:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3PGo2h23957; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 10:50:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3PGo1j19700; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 10:50:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dc-mx13.cluster1.charter.net (dc-mx13.cluster0.hsacorp.net [209.225.8.23]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3PGnUj19378 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 10:49:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [66.189.36.255] (HELO [192.168.1.102]) by dc-mx13.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with ESMTP id 40143060 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 12:49:24 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: amandaf@pop.charter.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20020425031010.04fe3eb0@mail.frys.com> References: <4.3.1.2.20020425031010.04fe3eb0@mail.frys.com> To: h-costume@indra.com From: sustre@pixelations.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] favourite portrait Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 12:49:29 -0400 Status: RO I wasn't able to find Bjarne's portrait (probably due to my browser's weirdnesses)- could someone post the url of it directly, or give me directions? Many thanks... -Amanda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 25 14:24:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA15410 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 14:24:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3PHN3h27552; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 11:23:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3PHN0j09184; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 11:23:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3PHMIj08732 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 11:22:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.34.187]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GV400IU4PU5IE@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 08:03:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] advice wanted for next projects In-reply-to: <000f01c1ec42$ea71d590$a9c7adcb@michaela> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020425072650.0504fa70@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <4.3.1.2.20020423065900.04f81140@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20020425004847.04f876d0@mail.frys.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 07:47:27 -0700 Status: RO >I saw in a late Victorian print a maid wearing a pink outfit, with the usual >white apron cap and cuffs. This was in a book about the Victorian household. >I'm not exactly sure where about she was in terms of rank, but I know it was >a public part of the house where she would be seen by guests. She was quite >young too. AAAKK! Pink! Run away, run away! I could see dark brown, dark blue, dark grey, or black, but not pink on 'an old family servant' like me. >Have you ever seen Upstairs Downstairs? It was set in the teens Both 'Upstairs Downstairs' and 'Gosford Park' show an entire household of servants, and their costumes look well researched and totally believable. I look like 'too many potatoes in too small a sack' in those two periods, but the costumes are great. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 25 14:42:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA15654 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 14:42:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3PHg1h29504; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 11:42:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3PHg0j19825; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 11:42:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from im1.sec.tds.net ([216.170.230.91]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3PHfkj19698 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 11:41:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from tds.net (ghal1pool0-a39.al.tds.net [216.170.219.39]) by im1.sec.tds.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g3PHfhHj001992 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 12:41:44 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <3CC83FC4.2251133A@tds.net> From: Katie X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en]C-{C-UDP; TDSNET} (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Cost Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] A found adue! Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 12:41:24 -0500 Status: RO Well guys it looks like my responsibilities for my offices are going to be taking up a lot of my time. So I am going to have to remove myself from this list. It was fun and I learned a lot. Hope all your dreams and aspirations come true. In Service to the Crowns and the Dream (and getting deeper by the minute...HELP!) Lady Katherine of the Deepwoods Deputy Kingdom Webminister in Meridies Deputy Kingdom Bagatelle in Meridies Webminister for the Barony of the Osprey _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 25 18:58:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA18344 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 18:58:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3PLw3h24707; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 15:58:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3PLw1j11113; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 15:58:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web14008.mail.yahoo.com (web14008.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.124]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g3PLvnj10991 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 15:57:49 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020425215748.73130.qmail@web14008.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [206.148.68.221] by web14008.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 14:57:48 PDT From: Cin Subject: Re: [h-cost] advice wanted for next projects To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20020425072650.0504fa70@mail.frys.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 14:57:48 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO --- Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > This was in a book about the Victorian household... PINK How odd. Most of my how-to-run-a-household books of the mid to late Victorian variety pitch black or grey. With perfect laundered & pressed white linen cuffs, collars, aprons all in good repair. Expecting that you arent desperate to have this outfit by next PEERS, I'll dig these refs out after the housepainting, and other renovations. My early Emily Post (1921) has a whole section on country houses and household management there. Fun seeing you on Sat and talk to you soon, ===== --cin Cynthia hysteria95126@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more http://games.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 25 19:02:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA18394 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 19:02:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3PM21h25189; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 16:02:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3PM20j13236; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 16:02:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta03bw.bigpond.com (mta03bw.bigpond.com [139.134.6.86]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3PM1Wj13032 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 16:01:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bigpond.com ([144.135.24.87]) by mta03bw.bigpond.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 mta03bw Feb 26 2002 03:44:21) with SMTP id GV596C00.G68 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 08:01:24 +1000 Received: from ESS-p-203-54-110-43.mega.tmns.net.au ([203.54.110.43]) by bwmam07.mailsvc.email.bigpond.com(MailRouter V3.0l 56/455607); 26 Apr 2002 08:01:24 Message-ID: <3CC96BC7.6C498F33@bigpond.com> From: Claire Clarke Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Favorite Costume Portrait References: <107BF636E2@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 08:01:27 -0700 Status: RO Teddy wrote: > > > http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/search.cgi?author=&title=mass+bolsena& > comment=&time=any&school=any&form=any&type=any&location= > > The details that shows the five kneeling men. > > Good choice Teddy, this one always make me dribble.... :-P Claire _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 25 19:08:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA18467 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 19:08:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3PM82h25636; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 16:08:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3PM81j16304; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 16:08:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3PM7bj16078 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 16:07:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.34.187]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GV500FOD9GN4K@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 15:07:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] advice wanted for next projects In-reply-to: <3.0.6.32.20020425083221.00bc7600@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020425143730.05002bf0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <000f01c1ec42$ea71d590$a9c7adcb@michaela> <4.3.1.2.20020423065900.04f81140@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20020425004847.04f876d0@mail.frys.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 14:38:18 -0700 Status: RO > >> I'll probably do a parlour maid outfit instead, in a solid colour or dark > >> stripe rather than a print. > >It's my understanding, mostly gleaned from reading old ettiquette books, >that print dresses were worn by servants in the daytime. In the late >afternoon and evening, they wore more formal solid dark colors. > >This is for "front of the house" staff. Kitchen maids and the like, who >would not be seen by the gentry, wore print dresses all the time. That surely puts it all together, and that's what Charles Dana Gibson shows too. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 25 19:11:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA18502 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 19:11:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3PMB1h25960; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 16:11:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3PMB0j17966; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 16:11:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3PMAwj17944 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 16:10:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.34.187]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GV500FPO9M9YL@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 15:10:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] advice wanted for next projects In-reply-to: <20020425215748.73130.qmail@web14008.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020425150853.05039c70@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <4.3.1.2.20020425072650.0504fa70@mail.frys.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 15:10:50 -0700 Status: RO > > This was in a book about the Victorian household... PINK > > How odd. Most of my how-to-run-a-household books of the mid to late > Victorian >variety pitch black or grey. With perfect laundered & pressed white linen >cuffs, collars, aprons all in good repair. Expecting that you arent desperate >to have this outfit by next PEERS, Well, actually, that was my intention. I may not finish in time... >I'll dig these refs out after the >housepainting, and other renovations. My early Emily Post (1921) has a whole >section on country houses and household management there. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 25 19:18:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA18572 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 19:18:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3PMI2h26744; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 16:18:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3PMI0j21805; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 16:18:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web14004.mail.yahoo.com (web14004.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.120]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g3PMHSj21487 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 16:17:28 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020425221728.1074.qmail@web14004.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [206.148.68.221] by web14004.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 15:17:28 PDT From: Cin Subject: Re: [h-cost] advice wanted for next projects To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20020425150853.05039c70@mail.frys.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 15:17:28 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO > > How odd. Most of my how-to-run-a-household books of the mid to late > > Victorian > >variety pitch black or grey. With perfect laundered & pressed white linen > >cuffs, collars, aprons all in good repair. Expecting that you arent > desperate to have this outfit by next PEERS, > > Well, actually, that was my intention. I may not finish in time... Nan so des' ka? Since the theme is Morgan le Fay, I suppose your victorian- medieval bonnet should really be a Linen Henin. ===== --cin Cynthia hysteria95126@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more http://games.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 25 19:39:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA18807 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 19:39:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3PMd3h28930; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 16:39:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3PMd1j02773; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 16:39:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com (imo-m02.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.5]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3PMc8j02183; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 16:38:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.cd.169cb1c5 (4419); Thu, 25 Apr 2002 18:37:55 -0400 (EDT) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Message-ID: To: f-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_cd.169cb1c5.29f9df42_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 121 Subject: [h-cost] Head Masks for Dancers Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 18:37:54 EDT Status: RO --part1_cd.169cb1c5.29f9df42_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I need to construct headpieces to look like Ancient Egyptian Gods. I'll probably do Anubis, Sekmet and maybe Horus. I'm thinking of using Fosshape or Wonderflex. Does anyone know if there are forms available over which to construct such masks? Wire shapes? If anyone has any particular expertise in making head masks for dancers (lightweight and see through headpieces) I would love some feedback, direction, reference material that spells out the how-tos, etc. This is for Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat. thanks in advance angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes Theatrical Costume Design www.cabbagerosecostumes.com "Nay then, let the devil wear black, for I'll have a suit of sables..." W. Shakespeare --part1_cd.169cb1c5.29f9df42_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I need to construct headpieces to look like Ancient Egyptian Gods. I'll probably do Anubis, Sekmet and maybe Horus.  I'm thinking of using Fosshape or Wonderflex. Does anyone know if there are forms available over which to construct such masks?  Wire shapes?  If anyone has any particular expertise in making head masks for dancers (lightweight and see through headpieces) I would love some feedback, direction, reference material that spells out the how-tos, etc. 

This is for Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat.

thanks in advance

angela
+++++
Angela F. Lazear
Cabbage Rose Costumes
Theatrical Costume Design
www.cabbagerosecostumes.com
"Nay then, let the devil wear black,
for I'll have a suit of sables..."
W. Shakespeare --part1_cd.169cb1c5.29f9df42_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 25 21:21:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA19860 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 21:21:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3Q0K2h06857; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 18:20:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3Q0K0j12814; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 18:20:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3Q0JTj12656 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 18:19:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [136.152.192.255] (as-5-13.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.192.255]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.10.2) with ESMTP id g3Q0JQj17782 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 17:19:27 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric and tailors in Thailand? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g3Q0JTj12656 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 15:37:59 -0700 Status: RO At 12:40 PM +0200 4/25/02, Ingrid G. Storrø wrote: >Hello, list! This is not entirely on the topic of historic costume, >but you guys are the best crowd I know to ask - and hey, at least it >partly relates to costuming. :) I've checked the archives but couldn't >find what I'm looking for, so here goes: > >I've started planning a trip to Thailand next year, and of course I >need to increase my fabric stash, and support the local tailoring >industry. :) Textile museums would be great too, but are not as >important as actually buying stuff this time around. > >My main concern is: where to go? >I haven't decided which part of the country to go to yet, but my main >focus for the trip is to get clothes made and buy fabric. Is there any >region or city that's especially good to go to for these puropses? Does >anyone have any tips for how to find good tailors (apart from acually >walking into the shop and looking at their work)? Does anyone have any >concept of how much one should expect to pay for different types of >fabric, tailoring services, etc? One thing I would suggest -- and I hope this isn't just tourist-mentality speaking on my part -- would be to see if you can line up a local "shopping assistant" to work with while you're there. (Ideally, someone who would think it would be fun to show a visitor around to the local resources and help you get the best bargains.) Do you know people in Thailand already? Could they ask around to see if they know someone who is familiar with the fabric industry there who would know where to get both the best quality and the best bargains? (As well as who to avoid!) Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Apr 25 22:38:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA20779 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 22:38:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3Q1c4h11239; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 19:38:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3Q1c1j05421; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 19:38:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3Q1b9j05197 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 19:37:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.34.187]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GV500A9NJ5WAE@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 18:37:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] advice wanted for next projects In-reply-to: <20020425221728.1074.qmail@web14004.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020425181910.05ad9e40@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <4.3.1.2.20020425150853.05039c70@mail.frys.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 18:19:40 -0700 Status: RO > > > How odd. Most of my how-to-run-a-household books of the mid to late > > > Victorian > > >variety pitch black or grey. With perfect laundered & pressed white linen > > >cuffs, collars, aprons all in good repair. Expecting that you arent > > desperate to have this outfit by next PEERS, > > > > Well, actually, that was my intention. I may not finish in time... > >Nan so des' ka? Since the theme is Morgan le Fay, I suppose your victorian- >medieval bonnet should really be a Linen Henin. Nope. I'm the maid the pre-Raphaelites hired for the evening. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 26 00:06:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA21623 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 00:06:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3Q364h15257; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 21:06:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3Q360j28825; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 21:06:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) id g3Q35ho28747 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 21:05:43 -0600 (MDT) From: Elizabeth Lear To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Head Masks for Dancers Message-ID: <20020425210542.A19183@net.indra.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 21:05:42 -0600 Status: RO Sounds like a job for the f-costume mailing list ... (f-costume@indra.com, for fantasy costuming - they talk about this sort of thing all the time.) ...eliz _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 26 06:17:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA20417 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 06:17:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3Q9H4h02428; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 03:17:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3Q9H2j27070; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 03:17:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from studorg.hiof.no (IDENT:xBHFLgT5xk0RReu7xuwkg2oV82/LOTTq@studorg.hiof.no [158.36.33.137]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3Q9Gbj26997 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 03:16:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (ingridgs@localhost) by studorg.hiof.no (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g3Q9GZe27562 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 11:16:35 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ingrid_G=2E_Storr=F8?= To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric and tailors in Thailand? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 11:16:35 +0200 (CEST) Status: RO On Thu, 25 Apr 2002, Heather Rose Jones wrote: > One thing I would suggest -- and I hope this isn't just > tourist-mentality speaking on my part -- would be to see if you can > line up a local "shopping assistant" to work with while you're there. Yes, I've thought of that - but all the advice I can find online specifically states not to let new-found "friends" or strangers take you shopping - as they're often paid commission by shops to bring in clients, which leads to inflated prices. Now, I suspect that "inflated prices" may not necessarily amount to all that much when one considers exchange rates and all that - but if I'm going to pay more than "necessary", I'd rather the money went to the tailors who do the actual work, than to a guide. :) > Do you know people in Thailand already? No; that's part of the reason why I decided to ask the list - for all I know, someone here may have lived there or someting. :) But thanks for the advice, anyway! :) Ingrid _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 26 08:47:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA22035 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 08:47:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3QBl2h06183; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 05:47:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3QBl0j26492; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 05:47:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3QBkhj26416 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 05:46:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dandy.net (pvil2183.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.237.183]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA18313 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 07:46:02 -0400 Message-ID: <3CC93DC9.18EBE59A@dandy.net> From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Book question References: <3CC756AF.CE9E12A0@lavoltapress.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 07:45:13 -0400 Status: RO Hi, All. Fran, I have a photocopy of, I guess, Chapters 8 through 10 (1610-1725, roughly). It is an interesting series although, since the illos are all drawn, with no photos in it of either paintings or existing clothing, this limits it as a source to me as far as real documentation goes. My wife can read a smattering of the French, though, so it is interesting in some places to see what M. Leloir has to say about clothing of the time. It is a secondary source to me, however, but as Bjarne says, it has illos I hadn't seen before, and since the drawings are pretty accurate, I can conjecture from there... Mike T. Lavolta Press wrote: > Does anyone here use Maurice Leloir's _Histoire du costume de > l'antiquite a 1914_, and if so in what manner? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 26 19:27:14 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA29258 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 19:27:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3QMRAh02125; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 16:27:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3QMR1j26615; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 16:27:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web14007.mail.yahoo.com (web14007.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.123]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g3QMQij26500 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 16:26:44 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020426222643.22693.qmail@web14007.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [206.148.68.183] by web14007.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 15:26:43 PDT From: Cin Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric and tailors in Thailand? To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 15:26:43 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO --- Ingrid_G._Storrø wrote: > On Thu, 25 Apr 2002, Heather Rose Jones wrote: > > One thing I would suggest -- and I hope this isn't just > > tourist-mentality speaking on my part -- would be to see if you can > > line up a local "shopping assistant" to work with while you're there. > > Yes, I've thought of that - but all the advice I can find online > specifically states not to let new-found "friends" or strangers take you > shopping... I was in Singapore & Malaysia in Nov. Since no one'spitching in, I give you a tidbit. Maybe you'll find it useful. You are definitely correct that it helps to have a real local and a real friend (not a "new" one). Since you dont, my advice is to shop around in the US. If you've a hankering for some specific type of fabric say, monochrome Shantung, thai silk (always bi-chromic), Indian Saris from or whatever, then price them where ever you are now. If you havent a local source, go online to the big shops (like Thai Silks) and price those. Take your carefully organized swatches & prices with you to South East Asia. Shop *all* the stores before you buy. Ask for swatches & price per meter. Get them to write it on THEIR business card. Negotiate like crazy. Never offer a price. Ask "can you do better than...". Prepare to spend all day at this. Be aware thay they all know each other very well. Price fixing does happen. Also, some families own several shops. You'll never get a good deal if you try to play family members off against each other. Just something to think about. Tailors: I cant really help you. I have a good friend living in Singapore. We went to her tailor. Really, this is the only way to know you wont get a bad run. When you have a real local friend help, the tailor knows that a local person will ruin his business if you are not treated well. Your friend can help answer questions and deal with problems that come up after you've left. have a terrific time and please tell us all about your adventures in the land of silk and spices! ===== --cin Cynthia hysteria95126@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more http://games.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Apr 26 20:20:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA29782 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 20:20:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3QNK2h05796; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 17:20:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3QNK0j17929; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 17:20:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web14002.mail.yahoo.com (web14002.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.93]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g3QNJGj17617 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 17:19:17 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020426231916.66335.qmail@web14002.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [206.148.68.183] by web14002.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 16:19:16 PDT From: Cin Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric and tailors in Thailand? To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20020426222643.22693.qmail@web14007.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 16:19:16 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO I thought of something else... Thailand will probably have brass and copper braids at real bargain prices. Sold by the meter in Singapore they were US$0.80 to US$2 (converting all currencies to US dollars) per meter depending on the width. For edxample, the 1cm width, in Tokyo about US$8/meter, in SF at Britex, about $11/yd (so about $12/meter) and i Singapore US$1.20/meter. It comes in several different braids; mostly made somewhere in India. Great stuff. Asian hotels puts this stuff all over hotel staff uniforms from the senior management to the lowliest bellhop. It would make trim for on a lovely Elizabethan, on a terrific Hussar's uniform, on Victorians, on Regency/Directoire ballgowns. Caution, you should store it in silvercloth or similar as the metal braid will dull and darken as it oxidizes. Keep it out of moist environments. ===== --cin Cynthia hysteria95126@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more http://games.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Apr 28 15:04:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA00760 for ; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 15:04:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3SIoWh16827; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 12:50:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3SIoVO21398; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 12:50:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fepB.post.tele.dk (fepB.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.145]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3SIZ2O17985 for ; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 12:35:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from post12.tele.dk ([62.243.47.57]) by fepB.post.tele.dk (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20020428183501.ZLGG19716.fepB.post.tele.dk@post12.tele.dk> for ; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 20:35:01 +0200 Message-ID: <3CCC40F9.ABABA8FA@post12.tele.dk> From: Leif Drews X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Duchesse silk Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 20:35:37 +0200 Status: RO Dear Saragrace. You are right about the blue costume, yes it should be a softer drape. But when i was thinking about Duchesse silk, i ment it for the wedding suit i am planning. Its a more formal suit, the year is 1766 and i think Duchesse silk would be very nice. Also to embroider on the Duchesse would be lovely. This suit, i would like to have in a pearl grey colour, so i guess it would not be that difficult to find. I use a Visa card, so it is no problem to have it sent for me. But i think i want to wait a little. Maybe i would be lucky to find something in London next month when i take a 2days shopping trip there. Bjarne -- Leif Drews boulevard 5, 3 th 1635 København V Bjarne Drews boulevard 5,3.th 1635 København V tlf. 35 37 13 70 My new domain name: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk Homepage: http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/~DeeDee_Revia/1index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Apr 28 15:28:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA01695 for ; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 15:28:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3SJEWh17668; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 13:14:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3SJEVO27909; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 13:14:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fepZ.post.tele.dk (fepz.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.133]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3SIu2O23197 for ; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 12:56:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from post12.tele.dk ([62.243.47.57]) by fepZ.post.tele.dk (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20020428185601.JXRL26021.fepZ.post.tele.dk@post12.tele.dk> for ; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 20:56:01 +0200 Message-ID: <3CCC45E5.C809E7E9@post12.tele.dk> From: Leif Drews X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] silk duchesse Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 20:56:38 +0200 Status: RO Hi This one, Duchesse Satin weight 26.50 how would that be for the wedding suit? There are no place i can se the colours, does anybody have their samples? How is the Steel grey, and the grey? How is the "bisquit" colour? That is amazing prices, i would never get this price in Denmark, usually much more expensive. Thanks for your help Saragrace! Bjarne -- Leif Drews boulevard 5, 3 th 1635 København V Bjarne Drews boulevard 5,3.th 1635 København V tlf. 35 37 13 70 My new domain name: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk Homepage: http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/~DeeDee_Revia/1index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Apr 28 16:28:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02013 for ; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 16:28:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3SKEYh19834; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 14:14:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3SKEWO10874; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 14:14:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3SK3YO08411 for ; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 14:03:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a226.in-tch.com [66.62.107.26]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g3SJovH28271 for ; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 13:50:58 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3CCC56CA.69C21E40@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Duchesse silk References: <3CCC40F9.ABABA8FA@post12.tele.dk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 14:08:42 -0600 Status: RO Hey, Bjarne...what're you shopping for in London? I'm sure it's just full of nifty stuff to buy....any recommendations for embroidery, lace, costume supplies? I'll be there in late August/early September (my first trip overseas ....I'm getting really excited). --sue, who should be sewing and making lace, instead of poking about on the computer, but what the heck, it's sunday afternoon...;-) Leif Drews wrote: > > Dear Saragrace. > You are right about the blue costume, yes it should be a softer drape. > But when i was thinking about Duchesse silk, i ment it for the wedding > suit i am planning. > Its a more formal suit, the year is 1766 and i think Duchesse silk would > be very nice. > Also to embroider on the Duchesse would be lovely. > This suit, i would like to have in a pearl grey colour, so i guess it > would not be that difficult to find. > I use a Visa card, so it is no problem to have it sent for me. > But i think i want to wait a little. Maybe i would be lucky to find > something in London next month when i take a 2days shopping trip there. > Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Apr 28 19:36:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA02789 for ; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 19:36:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3SNM3h27794; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 17:22:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3SNM1O22659; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 17:22:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3SNLrO22623 for ; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 17:21:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.34.187]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GVA008X6WWGDA@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 16:21:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: slashing and pinking(WAS:Re: Favorite Costume Portrait-Teddy's) In-reply-to: <18f.72a25e0.29fd5fd4@aol.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020428154646.00c18a70@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 15:47:40 -0700 Status: RO ><< Now you make me wonder if the fraycheck slashing will hold up to > washing. I did it on some cotton velvet, one layer, dried completely > and then another. Then I slashed it. If you don't touch it, you'd > never know it was there. >> > >Sometimes that holds. Just check on it every few washings/wearings and add >more Fraycheck if needed. I also strongly recommend making a small stitch at >both ends of every slash, to keep the fabric from continuing the rip. You >can even make the stitch an embellishment by sewing it through a small bead, >filagree, or small decorative button. Long slashes can also be both >strengthened and embellished by appliqueing a small triangle of leather at >each end. > >Anyone else got things to add? Slash on the bias whenever possible. That way there are no long threads to come out, and the edges frizz up nicely after washing. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Apr 28 22:16:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA03296 for ; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 22:16:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3T222h05872; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 20:02:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3T220O29808; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 20:02:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m10.mx.aol.com (imo-m10.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.165]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3T21MO29592 for ; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 20:01:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Azelana@aol.com by imo-m10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 7.12e.1096f3b0 (4008) for ; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 22:01:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Azelana@aol.com Message-ID: <12e.1096f3b0.29fe0362@aol.com> To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 124 Subject: [h-cost] Re: silk charmeuse(WAS:favourite portrait-Bjarne's fabric) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 22:01:06 EDT Status: RO In a message dated 4/28/02 2:18:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, h-costume-request@indra.com writes: << You might think i am an ignorant, but i dont know what silk charmeuse is! Could you tell me a little about this! I would like something like satin weaved silk. >> Bjarne, Charmeuse has a very shiney satin surface, but is not nearly as stiff as satin. It drapes beautifully and just glides along your fingertips. I have to agree that this is what that blue in the pic looks like. Imitation charmeuses can be found at places like Jo-Ann's, and that blue is a common prom color. For real silk, I'm not sure where to get it in that color, but you can try Thai Silks, http://www.thaisilks.com/ Anjooran Silks, or dye your own from the Silk Connection. For more info and a possible place to order, see the website below: http://www.srfabrics.com/silks/charmeuse.htm Duchess satin is a low-lustre satin, so it won't give you that high shine from the pic. --Gillian _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Apr 28 22:27:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA03315 for ; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 22:27:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3T2D1h06485; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 20:13:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3T2D0O02593; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 20:13:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m07.mx.aol.com (imo-m07.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.162]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3T2CDO02376 for ; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 20:12:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Azelana@aol.com by imo-m07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 7.164.cf8dd13 (4008) for ; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 22:12:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Azelana@aol.com Message-ID: <164.cf8dd13.29fe05f4@aol.com> To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 124 Subject: [h-cost] Re: This one's good too Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 22:12:04 EDT Status: RO Jennifer, << http://www.marquise.de/1800/pics/1859_2.shtml >> Ooh! Are you doing the ivy, too? It's not even close to my time period, but what a luscious gown! I'd join a reenactment group just to have an excuse to make that... --Gillian the Elizabethan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Apr 28 22:34:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA03338 for ; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 22:34:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3T2K1h06910; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 20:20:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3T2K0O04338; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 20:20:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3T2JCO04178 for ; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 20:19:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) id g3T2LAY53763 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 19:21:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200204290221.g3T2LAY53763@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: This one's good too In-Reply-To: <164.cf8dd13.29fe05f4@aol.com> "from Azelana@aol.com at Apr 28, 2002 10:12:04 pm" To: h-costume@indra.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL82 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 19:21:10 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO there's a different reason to join reenactment groups? I had no idea! .heather. > Jennifer, > > << http://www.marquise.de/1800/pics/1859_2.shtml >> > > Ooh! Are you doing the ivy, too? It's not even close to my time period, but > what a luscious gown! I'd join a reenactment group just to have an excuse to > make that... > > --Gillian the Elizabethan > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 29 02:23:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA31875 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 02:23:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3T69Ah15535; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 00:09:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3T691O22129; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 00:09:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3T68DO21985 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 00:08:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.34.187]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GVB002WIFPOIY@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 23:08:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020428222237.00c3a3c0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] the level of costuming Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 23:08:08 -0700 Status: RO Yesterday I went to my first SCA event in several years. I think my 14-year-old was one or two when I stopped being a regular attendee. Anyway, I couldn't help noticing the general level of costuming, compared to what it was when I was a regular, and compared to what it was when I joined. When I joined, in 1971, I did a German Ren. dress from a Durer drawing, and I had to figure out the whole thing on my own. About the time I dropped out, this period was beginning to get popular. Now many people do them (even at Ren. Faire), much better than my first one, and lots of research has been published on how to do them and what they should correctly look like, making the process much easier than when I did my first one. I've even seen books with colour photos of surviving real German garments from this period, complete with close-ups of details, notes on the cloth and construction, and patterns taken directly from them. Anyway, yesterday I saw quite a high level of costuming, in many periods, done by people that I know joined after I dropped out, as well as by people I remembered from before I did. This made me have to stop and think about a number of things. My standards of authenticity and craftsmanship haven't gotten any lower than when people thought I was one of the better costumers around. But it seems that the high-end of the standard has risen while I wasn't looking, and there are many people at least as good now as I ever was, based just on the attendees of a 75-person teaching event. (My ego suffered quite a blow when I realized that one.) Someone was pattern-knitting a silk glove only about twice the gage of a t-shirt - nobody in the SCA knitted period stuff in 1971. Somebody was teaching an improv class in shoemaking by period methods - almost nobody but me made their own SCA shoes in 1971. Several people were wearing t-tunics which were cut correctly and trimmed with handwork, most of which was at least nominally contemporary with their cut - un-decorated t-tunics with modern set-in sleeves were all most people had in 1971. Many people, men included, were wearing head-gear to match their costumes - almost nobody wore anything but straw sun hats in 1971. I always used to say I would teach anything I knew to any SCA member, and if they got better than me I would take their class. Yesterday I realized how many people have gotten better than I am at a lot of things I considered myself good at (I never taught any of the instructors at yesterday's classes - they all joined after I dropped out), so I guess it's time I availed myself of some of their classes, books, research, etc. I'm not old enough to feel as old as I do right now. But my next costume will be as good as theirs are. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 29 04:18:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA32330 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 04:18:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3T84Yh19008; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 02:04:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3T84VO13685; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 02:04:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ivsmtp02la.mail2world.com (ivsmtp02la.mail2world.com [66.28.189.73]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3T7xrO12721 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 01:59:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ivweb06la (unverified [10.1.200.110]) by ivsmtp02la.mail2world.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.6) with ESMTP id for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 00:57:51 -0700 thread-index: AcHvU49mZ4ShfAW0Qa22w9UXN3iY2Q== Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Fabric and tailors in Thailand? From: "ruiyin" To: Cc: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric and tailors in Thailand? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_C20C_01C1EF18.E3078920" X-Mailer: Microsoft CDO for Exchange 2000 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message Importance: normal Priority: normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 00:57:51 -0700 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_C20C_01C1EF18.E3078920 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've never been to Thailand either, but I have done a lot of fabric shopping in several other Asian countries. My rule of thumb is always look for the shops crowded with local customers, not only because they are supposedly the most popular ones but also because you can usually tell by the behavior of other customers if you're being cheated. Try to get an idea what the others are paying, although the problem might be that only tourists buy expensive silks while all the locals buy cheap polyester stuff. Anyway, I think the price is not the biggest issue, as you can always bargain until you're happy with it. It's much more difficult to know if the material is what it is supposed to be. Be very careful, whether you want to buy silk or just plain cotton. I seem to remember that I friend of mine paid around 4 euros/metre (or yard?) for a very fine quality thick thai silk a few years ago. He had local friends (real ones, ex-class mates) but it doen't mean thet you couldn't find the stuff even cheaper. South East Asia is a very good place to stock up trims, buttons, hooks and eyes etc. I love the tiny round brass buttons, I always buy a whole package when I'm in palces where I can find them. For fabrics, I believe bazaar-type of places will be the best (it's also easy to compare prices if you have all the shops there in a row), but for finding a tailor it might be a good idea to ask at the hotel, unless you're staying at a five star one. It will be relatively cheap anyway, and if it's quality you want it's not worth the time and the few pennies you might save to look for the cheapest deal. In general, I never understood the people who run back and forth and lose their nerves just because they don't want to spend a single extra penny on anything, and get totally depressed if they find out they've been paying too much. You can always think that you are supporting the locals... Happy shopping! Riina _______________________________________________________________ Sign up for FREE iVillage newsletters . >From health and pregnancy to shopping and sex, iVillage has the scoop on what matters most to you. ------=_NextPart_000_C20C_01C1EF18.E3078920 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I've never been to Thailand either, but I have done a lot of fabric shopping in several other Asian countries. My rule of thumb is always look for the shops crowded with local customers, not only because they are supposedly the most popular ones but also because you can usually tell by the behavior of other customers if you're being cheated. Try to get an idea what the others are paying, although the problem might be that only tourists buy expensive silks while all the locals buy cheap polyester stuff. Anyway, I think the price is not the biggest issue, as you can always bargain until you're happy with it. It's much more difficult to know if the material is what it is supposed to be. Be very careful, whether you want to buy silk or just plain cotton.

I seem to remember that I friend of mine paid around 4 euros/metre (or yard?) for a very fine quality thick thai silk a few years ago. He had local friends (real ones, ex-class mates) but it doen't mean thet you could! n't find the stuff even cheaper.

South East Asia is a very good place to stock up trims, buttons, hooks and eyes etc. I love the tiny round brass buttons, I always buy a whole package when I'm in palces where I can find them.

For fabrics, I believe bazaar-type of places will be the best (it's also easy to compare prices if you have all the shops there in a row), but for finding a tailor it might be a good idea to ask at the hotel, unless you're staying at a five star one. It will be relatively cheap anyway, and if it's quality you want it's not worth the time and the few pennies you might save to look for the cheapest deal. In general, I never understood the people who run back and forth and lose their nerves just because they don't want to spend a single extra penny on anything, and get totally depressed if they find out they've been paying too much. You can always think that you are supporting the locals...

Happy shopping!

Riina
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has the scoop on what matters most to you. ------=_NextPart_000_C20C_01C1EF18.E3078920-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 29 04:27:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA32395 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 04:27:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3T8D2h19214; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 02:13:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3T8D1O15240; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 02:13:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f157.pav2.hotmail.com [64.4.37.157]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3T84TO13678 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 02:04:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 01:04:24 -0700 Received: from 12.224.202.209 by pv2fd.pav2.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 08:04:23 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.224.202.209] From: "Jennifer Sena" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: This one's good too Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Apr 2002 08:04:24.0199 (UTC) FILETIME=[79BFD170:01C1EF54] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 01:04:23 -0700 Status: RO I'm not sure what I'll do for finishing touches. The fabric has roses on it so I may end up with some nice self fabric flowers arranged with velvet greenery. I'm still not sure. By the time it's all done I'm sure it will have evolved several more steps. I've been stashing pieces for almost three years now. Jennifer > ><< http://www.marquise.de/1800/pics/1859_2.shtml >> > >Ooh! Are you doing the ivy, too? It's not even close to my time period, >but >what a luscious gown! I'd join a reenactment group just to have an excuse >to >make that... > >--Gillian the Elizabethan >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 29 04:37:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA32434 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 04:37:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3T8Nah19533; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 02:23:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3T8NXO17131; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 02:23:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f99.pav2.hotmail.com [64.4.37.99]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3T89QO14607 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 02:09:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 01:09:20 -0700 Received: from 12.224.202.209 by pv2fd.pav2.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 08:09:20 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.224.202.209] From: "Jennifer Sena" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: This one's good too Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Apr 2002 08:09:20.0820 (UTC) FILETIME=[2A8C9740:01C1EF55] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 01:09:20 -0700 Status: RO I actually only play in the SCA, but I can't help making things from all over time and space. This one may get worn once, but I have no idea where. I don't dare wear big hoops to a modern restaurant or anything. The modern USA is not designed for flambouyantly big skirts!! Maybe it's time for another wedding? OH, no, My husband says next time he wants a proxy wedding. I still cry at the video of the last one. >From: Heather Meadows >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: This one's good too >Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 19:21:10 -0700 (PDT) > >there's a different reason to join reenactment groups? >I had no idea! > >.heather. > >I'd join a reenactment group just to have an excuse to > > make that... > > > > --Gillian the Elizabethan _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 29 04:51:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA32489 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 04:51:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3T8b5h19816; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 02:37:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3T8b3O19496; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 02:37:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fepE.post.tele.dk (fepE.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.137]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3T8KoO16629 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 02:20:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from post12.tele.dk ([62.243.47.98]) by fepE.post.tele.dk (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20020429082048.JNCA11457.fepE.post.tele.dk@post12.tele.dk> for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 10:20:48 +0200 Message-ID: <3CCD0283.57EDF7@post12.tele.dk> From: Leif Drews X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Duchesse silk References: <3CCC40F9.ABABA8FA@post12.tele.dk> <3CCC56CA.69C21E40@in-tch.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 10:21:24 +0200 Status: RO Dear Sue. Well it is just a cheap trip i boaght trough my newspaper. Going there and home again next day for only about 60 dollars. I am going to Dillons bookstore at Oxford street, books are very cheap compared to danish prices. Then i was hoping there would be a super fabric store there. Usually i also go to Ells & Ferrier in Beek Street. They have a lot of pearls and sequins and stuff, i go bersurk when i see all their things. Perhaps they have some of those oval spangels i am looking for. Then i am going to London Museum, i never was there before.......... It is my 5th trip to London. There is a needlework shop in Oxford Street. I baught silk thread for lace there on large reels there last time, very cheap and i have thread for yards and yards of lace. I think it was some leftover thread they had from industry in some way. I can find the adress if you want it. Bjarne Bjarne Sue Clemenger wrote: > Hey, Bjarne...what're you shopping for in London? I'm sure it's just > full of nifty stuff to buy....any recommendations for embroidery, lace, > costume supplies? I'll be there in late August/early September (my first > trip overseas ....I'm getting really excited). > --sue, who should be sewing and making lace, instead of poking about on > the computer, but what the heck, it's sunday afternoon...;-) > > Leif Drews wrote: > > > > Dear Saragrace. > > You are right about the blue costume, yes it should be a softer drape. > > But when i was thinking about Duchesse silk, i ment it for the wedding > > suit i am planning. > > Its a more formal suit, the year is 1766 and i think Duchesse silk would > > be very nice. > > Also to embroider on the Duchesse would be lovely. > > This suit, i would like to have in a pearl grey colour, so i guess it > > would not be that difficult to find. > > I use a Visa card, so it is no problem to have it sent for me. > > But i think i want to wait a little. Maybe i would be lucky to find > > something in London next month when i take a 2days shopping trip there. > > Bjarne > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Leif Drews boulevard 5, 3 th 1635 København V Bjarne Drews boulevard 5,3.th 1635 København V tlf. 35 37 13 70 My new domain name: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk Homepage: http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/~DeeDee_Revia/1index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 29 05:32:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA32616 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 05:32:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3T9Ikh20938; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 03:18:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3T9IhO25065; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 03:18:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc54.attbi.com (rwcrmhc54.attbi.com [216.148.227.87]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3T8utO22952 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 02:56:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default.attbi.com ([24.245.40.181]) by rwcrmhc54.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020429085649.RCPM20384.rwcrmhc54.attbi.com@default.attbi.com> for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 08:56:49 +0000 Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20020429035918.02cdb650@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: dannw@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Subject: Bjarne's trip was Re: [h-cost] Duchesse silk In-Reply-To: <3CCD0283.57EDF7@post12.tele.dk> References: <3CCC40F9.ABABA8FA@post12.tele.dk> <3CCC56CA.69C21E40@in-tch.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 04:01:04 -0500 Status: RO Bjarne, If you do find any of those oval spangles, please let us know! I've been looking for them for ages for my bobbin lace and will hopefully be getting back to England in January. Oh and do share the information on places you find good stuff like that silk for your lace... Cheers, Danielle At 10:21 AM 4/29/2002 +0200, you wrote: >Dear Sue. >Well it is just a cheap trip i boaght trough my newspaper. Going there and >home again next day for only about 60 dollars. >I am going to Dillons bookstore at Oxford street, books are very cheap >compared to danish prices. Then i was hoping there would be a super fabric >store there. Usually i also go to Ells & Ferrier in Beek Street. They have a >lot of pearls and sequins and stuff, i go bersurk when i see all their things. >Perhaps they have some of those oval spangels i am looking for. Then i am >going to London Museum, i never was there before.......... >It is my 5th trip to London. >There is a needlework shop in Oxford Street. I baught silk thread for lace >there on large reels there last time, very cheap and i have thread for yards >and yards of lace. >I think it was some leftover thread they had from industry in some way. I can >find the adress if you want it. > >Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 29 14:33:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA03291 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 14:33:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3TIJQh29105; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 12:19:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3TIJ4O18180; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 12:19:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from WDNE2K.mackie.com ([12.144.236.152]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3TIHuO17396 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 12:17:58 -0600 (MDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.5762.3 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Trim on 14th century Italian dresses? Thread-Index: AcHvqiavJQ+kVtfiQX6LrR5d54cexA== From: "Colleen McDonald" To: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g3TIHuO17396 Subject: [h-cost] Trim on 14th century Italian dresses? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 11:17:43 -0700 Status: RO Hello everyone, I'm currently researching 14th century Italian clothing (right now focusing on Florence 1365). And I've run into something that I'm hoping someone on this list has some ideas about or experience with. I've been noticing is that many of the dresses in the paintings of this period show some kind of trim/embroidery/couching around the neckline and the wrists of the dress. The frescoes in the Santa Maria Novella - The Church Militant and Triumphant by Andrea Da Firenze and Last Judgment by Nardo Di Cione - both show multiple examples of this. You can see pictures of the frescos at on-line http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/html/a/andrea/firenze/index.html and http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/html/n/nardo/index.html. Now I'm trying to determine which it is - trim or embroidery or couching? My first thought is that it probably is not embroidery because it is gold colored and from what I have read, gold threads were couched, not embroidered, so that the gold would not come off the thread and the thread would not damage the garment. Anyone else out there have a take on this? If it is trim, what would the trim have been made of to have the gold threads? Some kind of cloth of gold? If is it trim, how are they getting it around the necklines without puckering on the corners? I'd love to hear any ideas or suggestions on this. Thanks! Colleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 29 15:17:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA03751 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 15:17:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3TJ03h03361; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 13:00:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3TJ01O10723; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 13:00:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3TIx0O10182 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 12:59:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12840 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 15:20:04 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Trim on 14th century Italian dresses? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 15:20:04 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Mon, 29 Apr 2002, Colleen McDonald wrote: > My first thought is that it probably is not embroidery because it is > gold colored and from what I have read, gold threads were couched, not > embroidered, so that the gold would not come off the thread and the > thread would not damage the garment. Anyone else out there have a > take on this? That's my understanding too, though couching would be considered a form of embroidery. > If it is trim, what would the trim have been made of to have the gold > threads? Some kind of cloth of gold? It sounds to me like a good candidate for your mystery trim would be brocaded tabletwoven bands, which often incorporated gold threads. You might want to contact Nancy Spies, who has done a tremendous lot of research on the history of these bands and came out with a book about them last year. She reads this list sometimes. When she spoke about this topic at the Medieval Congress at Kalamazoo last year, she showed images of medieval depictions of clothing with bands in various places and indicated certain elements of the patterning that suggested they may have been brocaded tabletwoven bands. She also can tell you about evidence for such bands being used in a broad range of times and places, based not only on pictures but also on written documents and extant artifacts (e.g. preserved church vestments, grave finds, etc.). She might have a better clue about what was done in 14th c. Italy and in the images you found. > If is it trim, how are they getting it around the necklines without > puckering on the corners? IME, handmade bands are a lot more flexible than store-bought trim today. I didn't look at the images you cited, so I don't know if you're dealing with very wide bands (which could pose more of a problem), but it's also possible to create a wider banded area by putting rows of bands. Also, bear in mind that 14th c. Italian art may well be giving you an impression of the general effect, but not necessarily good detail on the band patterns themselves -- e.g. it may show one row where there were several in life. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 29 16:07:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA04095 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 16:07:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3TJr2h08821; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 13:53:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3TJr1R10956; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 13:53:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web14502.mail.yahoo.com (web14502.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.224.65]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g3TJqhR10786 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 13:52:43 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020429195242.49744.qmail@web14502.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.202.177.83] by web14502.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 12:52:42 PDT From: Wolfcat Hall Subject: Re: [h-cost] Trim on 14th century Italian dresses? To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 12:52:42 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO I'm not certain which I would use-embroidery, trim or applied bands--likely it would depend upon my time and the use of the outfit. What is amusing is in "The Church Militant" details, is an outfit which appears to have an overgown ending near the mid-calf, like the 3/4 length gowns so prevalent and beloved by SCAdians. It's a white with gold bands over a red kirtle--with her apparently holding onto a child trying to pull away. Angharat __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 29 16:15:59 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA04172 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 16:15:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3TK21h09879; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 14:02:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3TK21R16392; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 14:02:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtpgate.suscom.net (ip252.119.susc.suscom.net [64.78.119.252]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3TK10R15709 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 14:01:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailhost.suscom.net (pop.suscom.net [64.78.119.253]) by smtpgate.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CEFA10F4D8 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 15:56:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from yourczpl0pp1h9 (ip158.97.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.158]) by mailhost.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 63DB43A8027 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 15:59:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <009101c1efb8$340358a0$9e614e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" To: References: <20020429195242.49744.qmail@web14502.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Trim on 14th century Italian dresses? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 15:58:16 -0400 Status: RO Where would this picture be located? I'd love to see it! Alisone ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wolfcat Hall" To: Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 3:52 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Trim on 14th century Italian dresses? > I'm not certain which I would use-embroidery, trim or > applied bands--likely it would depend upon my time and > the use of the outfit. > > What is amusing is in "The Church Militant" details, > is an outfit which appears to have an overgown ending > near the mid-calf, like the 3/4 length gowns so > prevalent and beloved by SCAdians. It's a white with > gold bands over a red kirtle--with her apparently > holding onto a child trying to pull away. > > Angharat > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness > http://health.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 29 16:21:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA04209 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 16:21:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3TK51h10197; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 14:05:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3TK51R18114; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 14:05:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from WDNE2K.mackie.com ([12.144.236.152]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3TK42R17529 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 14:04:02 -0600 (MDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.5762.3 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Trim on 14th century Italian dresses? Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Trim on 14th century Italian dresses? Thread-Index: AcHvuM5i5oDf5XHiT22CxRQvq65IRAAABSuA From: "Colleen McDonald" To: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g3TK42R17529 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 13:03:50 -0700 Status: RO Try http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/html/a/andrea/firenze/index.html . I cited it in my original post. Best regards, Colleen -----Original Message----- From: Dianne and Greg Stucki [mailto:goofy1@suscom.net] Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 12:58 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Trim on 14th century Italian dresses? Where would this picture be located? I'd love to see it! Alisone ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wolfcat Hall" To: Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 3:52 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Trim on 14th century Italian dresses? > I'm not certain which I would use-embroidery, trim or > applied bands--likely it would depend upon my time and > the use of the outfit. > > What is amusing is in "The Church Militant" details, > is an outfit which appears to have an overgown ending > near the mid-calf, like the 3/4 length gowns so > prevalent and beloved by SCAdians. It's a white with > gold bands over a red kirtle--with her apparently > holding onto a child trying to pull away. > > Angharat > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness > http://health.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 29 16:48:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA04399 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 16:48:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3TKY1h16409; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 14:34:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3TKY0R08443; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 14:34:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lakemtao03.cox.net (lakemtao03.cox.net [68.1.17.242]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3TKXER07977 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 14:33:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from VMAAHQ ([68.10.161.53]) by lakemtao03.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with ESMTP id <20020429203307.YAKJ3281.lakemtao03.cox.net@VMAAHQ> for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 16:33:07 -0400 From: "Linda Rice" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Trim on 14th century Italian dresses? Message-ID: <000001c1efc0$32056c20$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 16:55:24 -0400 Status: RO Several years ago I bought a book from Nancy Spies about tablet weaving, mainly because in it were examples of making 90' corners with tablet weaving. It lays perfectly smooth, with no folded over corners. Before anyone gets excited and asks me questions, no I haven't ever tried it! ;o> Unfortunately, the book is in German, which I don't read, so I only look at the pictures and do some simple e-translations when necessary. Tablet weaving for me got put on the back burner for several years, but it's looking pretty good so far this year that I'll finally get into it. On a related note, I just heard that Peter Collingwood's book on tablet weaving has been republished by Robin and Russ Handweavers. It's supposed to be THE book to have, so it's good that it's available again. Linda -----Original Message----- Robin Netherton Subject: Re: [h-cost] Trim on 14th century Italian dresses? On Mon, 29 Apr 2002, Colleen McDonald wrote: > My first thought is that it probably is not embroidery because it is > gold colored and from what I have read, gold threads were couched, not > embroidered, so that the gold would not come off the thread and the > thread would not damage the garment. Anyone else out there have a > take on this? That's my understanding too, though couching would be considered a form of embroidery. > If it is trim, what would the trim have been made of to have the gold > threads? Some kind of cloth of gold? It sounds to me like a good candidate for your mystery trim would be brocaded tabletwoven bands, which often incorporated gold threads. You might want to contact Nancy Spies, who has done a tremendous lot of research on the history of these bands and came out with a book about them last year. She reads this list sometimes. When she spoke about this topic at the Medieval Congress at Kalamazoo last year, she showed images of medieval depictions of clothing with bands in various places and indicated certain elements of the patterning that suggested they may have been brocaded tabletwoven bands. She also can tell you about evidence for such bands being used in a broad range of times and places, based not only on pictures but also on written documents and extant artifacts (e.g. preserved church vestments, grave finds, etc.). She might have a better clue about what was done in 14th c. Italy and in the images you found. > If is it trim, how are they getting it around the necklines without > puckering on the corners? IME, handmade bands are a lot more flexible than store-bought trim today. I didn't look at the images you cited, so I don't know if you're dealing with very wide bands (which could pose more of a problem), but it's also possible to create a wider banded area by putting rows of bands. Also, bear in mind that 14th c. Italian art may well be giving you an impression of the general effect, but not necessarily good detail on the band patterns themselves -- e.g. it may show one row where there were several in life. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 29 17:02:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA04474 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 17:02:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3TKm7h19894; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 14:48:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3TKm6R18645; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 14:48:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc54.attbi.com (rwcrmhc54.attbi.com [216.148.227.87]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3TKj1R16328 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 14:45:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from C59303A ([12.238.186.197]) by rwcrmhc54.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020429204455.MJN2627.rwcrmhc54.attbi.com@C59303A> for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 20:44:55 +0000 Message-ID: <00b301c1efbe$d66df680$c5baee0c@mckiny1.tx.home.com> From: "Chiara" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Trim on 14th century Italian dresses? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 15:43:11 -0500 Status: RO I think she means which one of the three is it. :) Sincerely, Chiara Francesca Steppes, Ansteorra Franchesca Havas McKinney, Texas `°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°` ----- Original Message ----- From: "Colleen McDonald" To: Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 3:03 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Trim on 14th century Italian dresses? > Try http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/html/a/andrea/firenze/index.html . > > I cited it in my original post. > > Best regards, > > Colleen > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dianne and Greg Stucki [mailto:goofy1@suscom.net] > Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 12:58 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Trim on 14th century Italian dresses? > > > Where would this picture be located? I'd love to see it! > > Alisone > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Wolfcat Hall" > To: > Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 3:52 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Trim on 14th century Italian dresses? > > > > I'm not certain which I would use-embroidery, trim or > > applied bands--likely it would depend upon my time and > > the use of the outfit. > > > > What is amusing is in "The Church Militant" details, > > is an outfit which appears to have an overgown ending > > near the mid-calf, like the 3/4 length gowns so > > prevalent and beloved by SCAdians. It's a white with > > gold bands over a red kirtle--with her apparently > > holding onto a child trying to pull away. > > > > Angharat > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness > > http://health.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 29 17:34:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA04602 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 17:34:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3TLKOh26577; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 15:20:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3TLKLR10398; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 15:20:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from WDNE2K.mackie.com ([12.144.236.152]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3TLEiR06538 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 15:14:45 -0600 (MDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.5762.3 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Trim on 14th century Italian dresses? Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Trim on 14th century Italian dresses? Thread-Index: AcHvwIfHO9TuOnbEReGO3QD1/eUzaQAAjaWw From: "Colleen McDonald" To: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g3TLEiR06538 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 14:14:32 -0700 Status: RO < Unfortunately, the book is in German, which I don't read, so I only look at the pictures and do some simple e-translations when necessary.>> Linda, Can you give me the title and author? That way, I can start searching for it via ILL. Thanks! Colleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 29 18:11:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA04752 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 18:11:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3TLvNh00778; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 15:57:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3TLvLR05021; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 15:57:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta01bw.bigpond.com (mta01bw.bigpond.com [139.134.6.78]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3TLlxR29254 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 15:47:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bigpond.com ([144.135.24.72]) by mta01bw.bigpond.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 mta01bw Feb 26 2002 03:44:21) with SMTP id GVCN7Q00.9SF for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 07:47:50 +1000 Received: from ESS-p-203-54-110-71.mega.tmns.net.au ([203.54.110.71]) by bwmam02.mailsvc.email.bigpond.com(MailRouter V3.0l 11/1071020); 30 Apr 2002 07:47:50 Message-ID: <3CCEAEA6.28250ACC@bigpond.com> From: Claire Clarke Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Trim on 14th century Italian dresses? References: <20020429195242.49744.qmail@web14502.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 07:48:06 -0700 Status: RO Wolfcat Hall wrote: > I'm not certain which I would use-embroidery, trim or > applied bands--likely it would depend upon my time and > the use of the outfit. > > What is amusing is in "The Church Militant" details, > is an outfit which appears to have an overgown ending > near the mid-calf, like the 3/4 length gowns so > prevalent and beloved by SCAdians. It's a white with > gold bands over a red kirtle--with her apparently > holding onto a child trying to pull away. > Hmmm, well this is an allegorical painting....:-P Actually given that there's a woman in the same section of the painting dressed as an 'Amazon' I would hesitate to give creedance to this particular instance of a 3/4 length gown. On the other hand, I don't think I have ever disputed the existence of such creatures, but in the right time and place. 3/4 lenght surcoats seem to be far more common in the 14th century and in Italy than in 11th/12th century France and England when everyone seems to want to wear them. Claire _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 29 18:24:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA04815 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 18:24:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3TMACh01917; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 16:10:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3TMABR12646; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 16:10:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.rdc-kc.rr.com (mkc-162-201.kc.rr.com [24.94.162.201]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3TM06R06744 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 16:00:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from frankenputer (ip68-97-12-62.ok.ok.cox.net [68.97.12.62]) by smtp2.rdc-kc.rr.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with SMTP id g3TM016Y008419 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 17:00:01 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <000a01c1efc9$4da21f60$3e0c6144@frankenputer> From: "Jennene Stanley" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C1EF9F.5FBC50A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] Finally! an update Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 17:00:32 -0500 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C1EF9F.5FBC50A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Heyo, Just a quick note to let you know that I finally updated My website. = Life really has been crazy around here the past 6 months and is finally = calming down.=20 Jennene Stanley *********************************************************************** "Chase the light I see ahead. Luminate the path I tread. I live to be the best I can" - Queensr=FFche *********************************************************************** "Mooharpist" send e-mail to : Mooharpist@mmcable.com Elizabethan (& Regency) Website http://phelan.ou.edu/anya House Moo Home http://homepage.mac.com/housemoo ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C1EF9F.5FBC50A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Heyo,
 
Just a quick note to let you know that = I finally=20 updated My website. Life really has been crazy around here the past = 6=20 months and is finally calming down.
 
 
Jennene=20 Stanley
**************************************************************= *********
"Chase=20 the light I see ahead. Luminate the path I tread.
 I live to be = the best=20 I=20 can"           &nb= sp;          =20 -=20 Queensr=FFche
********************************************************= ***************
"Mooharpist"   =20 send e-mail to : Mooharpist@mmcable.com
&nbs= p;Elizabethan=20 (& Regency)  Website http://phelan.ou.edu/anya
 = ;House=20 Moo Home   http://homepage.mac.com/housemo= o
------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C1EF9F.5FBC50A0-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 29 20:47:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA05498 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 20:47:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3U0X1h13391; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 18:33:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3U0WxR17379; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 18:32:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lakemtao02.cox.net (lakemtao02.cox.net [68.1.17.243]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3U0LeR13358 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 18:21:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from VMAAHQ ([68.10.161.53]) by lakemtao02.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with ESMTP id <20020430002133.YFUA18443.lakemtao02.cox.net@VMAAHQ> for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 20:21:33 -0400 From: "Linda Rice" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Trim on 14th century Italian dresses? Message-ID: <000001c1efe0$1c8d2750$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 20:43:52 -0400 Status: RO Sure Colleen! The name of the book is "Brettchenweben", written by Marga and Heribert Joliet-Van Den Berg. ISBN: 3-258-02388-3 My copy was printed in 1975 in Switzerland. It also shows a method of splitting the band lengthwise, to accommodate a boat-neck type opening. There are also a couple of pictures of rounded bands, for round necklines. It's a cool book, I just wish I could read it! Have fun! Linda -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of Colleen McDonald Can you give me the title and author? That way, I can start searching for it via ILL. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 29 22:48:59 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA06140 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 22:48:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3U2Z2h20431; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 20:35:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3U2Z0R23052; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 20:35:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3U2YQR22897 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 20:34:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dandy.net (pvil2169.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.237.169]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA22081 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 22:33:22 -0400 Message-ID: <3CCE0245.DE0A0C06@dandy.net> From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] the level of costuming References: <4.3.1.2.20020428222237.00c3a3c0@mail.frys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 22:32:37 -0400 Status: RO Hi, All. I know this isn't a subject that is looked upon favourably on this list, but if looked at overall as the improvement that has occurred in one organization, I am glad to hear this report. Being that this organization's stated goal is education, perhaps something good is happening! Katya, I couldn't be more pleased, especially as I believe you have a good eye for these things, as evidenced by work that I have seen you do. I hope that all of those folks on this list that have influence in that one group can feel some sense of accomplishment, knowing that there is a rise in at least a portion of the quality of education in an organization that has had it's share of criticism in the past... Mike T. > I always used to say I would teach anything I knew to any SCA member, and > if they got better than me I would take their class. Yesterday I realized > how many people have gotten better than I am at a lot of things I > considered myself good at (I never taught any of the instructors at > yesterday's classes - they all joined after I dropped out), so I guess it's > time I availed myself of some of their classes, books, research, etc. I'm > not old enough to feel as old as I do right now. But my next costume will > be as good as theirs are. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Apr 29 23:42:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA06385 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 23:42:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3U3R2h23147; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 21:27:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3U3R1R07278; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 21:27:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3U3QoR07213 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 21:26:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.34.187]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GVD001TH2WO1S@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 20:26:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] the level of costuming In-reply-to: <3CCE0245.DE0A0C06@dandy.net> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020429195642.00c7c520@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <4.3.1.2.20020428222237.00c3a3c0@mail.frys.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 20:26:40 -0700 Status: RO I'm sure groups like this have had much beneficial influence on the SCA and other groups I don't have time to visit. So has the Internet generally. Books like those by Janet Arnold, Nora Waugh, and Nancy Bradfield weren't available to me when I first got interested in historical costuming. I had to improvise everything, and figure it out for myself, using only the pictures of what I wanted to make. It was that way with the SCA in the early years, and can't have been any easier for any other history-based group. But then, the SCA, and many re-enactment groups, were recent when I joined the SCA. Now there is a demand for more historical accuracy, in many centuries. Now many people are doing research on how historical garments were really made, making patterns from them, and publishing books on their findings. Now there is the Internet, with discussion groups like h-costume, web sites of museums we can't otherwise get to, and tons more research reports available to read. Saturday I was struck by how far one group had come. It was joyful and humbling at the same time. I chose to be inspired. As I said, my next costume will be better. And I know just the url to start with... >Hi, All. I know this isn't a subject that is looked upon favourably on this >list, but if looked at overall as the improvement that has occurred in one >organization, I am glad to hear this report. Being that this organization's >stated goal is education, perhaps something good is happening! Katya, I >couldn't be more pleased, especially as I believe you have a good eye for >these >things, as evidenced by work that I have seen you do. I hope that all of those >folks on this list that have influence in that one group can feel some >sense of >accomplishment, knowing that there is a rise in at least a portion of the >quality of education in an organization that has had it's share of >criticism in >the past... Mike T. > > > > I always used to say I would teach anything I knew to any SCA member, and > > if they got better than me I would take their class. Yesterday I realized > > how many people have gotten better than I am at a lot of things I > > considered myself good at (I never taught any of the instructors at > > yesterday's classes - they all joined after I dropped out), so I guess it's > > time I availed myself of some of their classes, books, research, etc. I'm > > not old enough to feel as old as I do right now. But my next costume will > > be as good as theirs are. > > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 30 01:04:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA06708 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 01:04:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3U4p3h27115; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 22:51:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3U4p0R29111; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 22:51:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3U4oMR28951 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 22:50:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a242.in-tch.com [66.62.107.42]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g3U4biX00696 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 22:37:44 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3CCE23C2.BE1EFA5C@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Trim on 14th century Italian dresses? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 22:55:30 -0600 Status: RO My guess, is that it could very well be both a brocaded "trim" or band on the one hand, and some sort of couching on the other. Depends on the garment, placement, time period, etc., etc. It is possible to embroider with metal threads (there are a number of examples in 16th c. portraiture, for example), but given the cost of the materials, the gold bits on the clothing could be either. I'd need to know which fresco(s), specifically, you were looking at. One of my very first ItalianRen outfits (and one of my better ones, oddly enough) had a *lot* of couched gold cord all around the bodice/neck opening, and down both edges of the split sleeves, and around the cuff areas. I was basing it on the couched design found on the neckline of the gown worn by da Vinci's Mona Lisa. Only years later, did I find out (better reproduction of the painting) that the lines on her gown are not rounded (as I'd thought, and reproduced ), but quite angular. My guess, now, is that instead of being a narrow, flexible cord, the design was done using gold or silver-gilt "purl," which looks like a very tiny (bead-sized) slinky, made from gold wire. Now granted, the Mona Lisa is a bit later than your examples, but check it out for an example of something clearly not *trim.* --Sue, who's tried a bit of precious metal embroidery, and was really suprised at how *long* it takes to do..... Colleen McDonald wrote: > > Hello everyone, > > I'm currently researching 14th century Italian clothing (right now focusing on Florence 1365). And I've run into something that I'm hoping someone on this list has some ideas about or experience with. > > I've been noticing is that many of the dresses in the paintings of this period show some kind of trim/embroidery/couching around the neckline and the wrists of the dress. The frescoes in the Santa Maria Novella - The Church Militant and Triumphant by Andrea Da Firenze and Last Judgment by Nardo Di Cione - both show multiple examples of this. You can see pictures of the frescos at on-line http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/html/a/andrea/firenze/index.html and http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/html/n/nardo/index.html. > > Now I'm trying to determine which it is - trim or embroidery or couching? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 30 01:05:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA06716 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 01:05:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3U4q1h27144; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 22:52:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3U4q1R29324; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 22:52:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3U4pgR29254 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 22:51:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a242.in-tch.com [66.62.107.42]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g3U4d1X01064 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 22:39:02 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3CCE2410.ABD25F5C@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Trim on 14th century Italian dresses? References: <20020429195242.49744.qmail@web14502.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 22:56:48 -0600 Status: RO It could very well meant to be more allegorical than representational, given that the frescoes are religious in theme..... --sue Wolfcat Hall wrote: > > I'm not certain which I would use-embroidery, trim or > applied bands--likely it would depend upon my time and > the use of the outfit. > > What is amusing is in "The Church Militant" details, > is an outfit which appears to have an overgown ending > near the mid-calf, like the 3/4 length gowns so > prevalent and beloved by SCAdians. It's a white with > gold bands over a red kirtle--with her apparently > holding onto a child trying to pull away. > > Angharat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 30 03:59:10 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA02691 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 03:59:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3U7j6h03761; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 01:45:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3U7j0R09713; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 01:45:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pimout1-int.prodigy.net (pimout1-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.77]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3U7iBR09555 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 01:44:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from flash.net (A020-1417.HSTN.splitrock.net [209.253.11.147]) by pimout1-int.prodigy.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g3U7iAx128960 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 03:44:10 -0400 Message-ID: <3CCE4AB9.27AD2E83@flash.net> From: Charlene Charette X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-Costume List Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] sewing machines reclassified Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 02:41:45 -0500 Status: RO This is probably old news to some of you. I was browsing through old issues of Piecework magazine and found this in an article from Jan/Feb 2000: "In 1998, the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics moved sewing machines from the Apparel and Upkeep category of consumer spending to the Recreation category, arguing that few people make or mend their clothes anymore." --Charlene -- When aiming for the common denominator, be prepared for the occasional division by zero. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 30 16:36:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA06022 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 16:36:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3UKKDh02187; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 14:20:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3UKK1R16166; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 14:20:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3UKJqR16072 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 14:19:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA22359 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 16:41:00 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] The 70s are now historic! Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 16:41:00 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO There's an entertaining story in today's St. Louis Post-Dispatch about the costume design for the new Broadway version of "Saturday Night Fever." Apparently a show set in the disco era is now officially a period piece. (I probably have some clothes from this era in my closet, but alas, I never went in for the classic disco look, so they're never be worth anything.) The article has a horrendous URL that I couldn't reproduce here, but you can find it by going to http://www.stltoday.com. If you check it out today, choose "Entertainment" from the main page and then "Entertainment News" to get you to today's Post-Dispatch articles. If you check in the next two weeks, you can view the article by searching on its title: "A "fever" pitch," by Dawne Massey. A couple of paragraphs I found particularly amusing: -------quote------- Luckily the cast was treated to "kinder, gentler" disco clothing than most of us remember. They don't have to endure the truly creepy feel of 100 percent polyester while they're sweatin' to the oldies on the dance floor. Benzinger used wool instead, which made it easier on the dancers as well as those charged with keeping the costumes wearable throughout the show's run. Costumes get sent to the dry cleaners about three times a week when a play tours. "Polyesters, when they're dry cleaned 10 or 11 times, get really stiff and horrible, so we had to get real expensive satin-finish wools," she said. "They appear like polyester because they've got the same sheen, but they move nicer than polyester, and they dry clean." --------end quote-------- I find it delicious that the designer, seeking a substitute for polyester, chose wool -- given that polyester is often used as a wool substitute in the first place! But in this case, the *polyester* is the period fabric. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Apr 30 17:09:59 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA06163 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 17:09:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g3UKr2h05551; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 14:53:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3UKr1R06083; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 14:53:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3UKqKR05639 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 14:52:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=laptop) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 172ebj-0001gg-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 13:52:19 -0700 From: "Saragrace knauf" To: Organization: PII Message-ID: <000601c1f087$d2657440$6501a8c0@Home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Subject: [h-cost] FW:FABRIC.COM:Smokin Deals ...Cotton Velveteen, Silk Jacquards Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 13:44:25 -0700 Status: RO Thought I would share this. I ordered a buttload of this stuff last fall. It is wonderful quality, and washes up very well. -----Original Message----- From: Stephen Friedman [mailto:list@fabric.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 11:32 AM To: saragrace@earthlink.net Subject: FABRIC.COM: A Mother's Day Gift,Cotton Velveteen, Silk Jacquards Good Morning and Happy Tuesday! I hope this note finds you well. With Mother's Day just around the corner, we have been talking about how we could do something really nice and special for all of you to let you know how much we are thinking of you and appreciate you on that special day. What I really want to do is send each and every one of you a lovely flower arrangement. Unfortunately, it is not really feasible to send out 60,000+ flower arrangements. I really do want you to have some flowers from us, so what we will be doing is putting a package of flower seeds in all the orders that we receive. We hope you will plant them and, as they blossom, enjoy them and know that we are thinking of you fondly. Our 20% OFF "RED ASTERISK" sale continues through this Friday, May 3, 2002. There has been a little bit of confusion, for which I apologize. The only items on sale are those INDIVIDUAL fabrics or notions that have the red asterisk, NOT an entire section that has a red asterisk. Just arrived at http://www.fabric.com www.fabric.com 1)100% Cotton Velveteen: We just added 20 colors of cotton velveteen. This is a super- high quality form the same mill we had last fall. Please see these at http://store.yahoo.com/phoenixtextiles/cottonvelvet.html 2)SILK JACQUARDS- this is a lovely blouse weight 100% silk jacquard that is a cross-dye of 2 colors of silk, giving it an iridescent look. Unfortunately, quantities in this group are extremely limited, so act quickly if you are interested. These silks can be found at http://store.yahoo.com/phoenixtextiles/siljaccros.html 3)100% LINEN- 3 colors on sale- We got an unbelievable deal on 3 colors of our light- weight 100% linen (red, curry and desert). We added them in both the regular linen section, but also put them in the BARGAIN CORNER, because we are passing our great buy along to you. These 3 colors only are going for $3.35 yd. (Does anybody else sell 100% linen at that price!?!) See them at http://store.yahoo.com/phoenixtextiles/prompriclin.html Have a great day and enjoy the flower seeds with our best wishes. Warmest regards, Stephen If you are happy with our fabrics and our service, please tell your friends; If you are not happy, please tell me. TO BE REMOVED from this list, click on the following link: http://www.fabric.com/cgi-local/remove_me.cgi?address=saragrace@earthlin k.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed May 1 00:19:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA08466 for ; Wed, 1 May 2002 00:19:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g4145bh07345; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 22:05:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g4145UR07375; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 22:05:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53.attbi.com [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g4143YR06810 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 22:03:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from duck ([24.130.169.157]) by rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020501040329.FUKA5896.rwcrmhc53.attbi.com@duck> for ; Wed, 1 May 2002 04:03:29 +0000 Message-ID: <000b01c1f0c5$224c16c0$9da98218@duck> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] Another good costume museum website... Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 21:03:21 -0700 Status: RO The Bowes Museum in England: http://www.bowesmuseum.org.uk/index.html Check out the following links: - Collections (go to Textiles for a searchable database of images -- many costume images, including some great shoes!) - What's on (online exhibitions, including one on costume jewelry, and another on hats created for/worn by the Queen Mum and Princess Margaret) - Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume