From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jun 1 00:54:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA04800 for ; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 00:54:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g514l2C06748; Fri, 31 May 2002 22:47:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g514l0x28295; Fri, 31 May 2002 22:47:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g514kTx28181 for ; Fri, 31 May 2002 22:46:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A2173E67024E; Fri, 31 May 2002 23:48:23 -0500 Message-ID: <008c01c20927$77a3e740$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <2.2.32.20020531222718.006fc668@mail.verizon.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wearing White X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 00:47:42 -0400 Status: RO I'm with you Ron... Virginians are very traditional. We suck up every bit of history we can and hang on to it. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jun 1 01:03:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA04827 for ; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 01:03:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g514u1C07034; Fri, 31 May 2002 22:56:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g514u1x00517; Fri, 31 May 2002 22:56:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f272.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.236.150]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g514tOx00372 for ; Fri, 31 May 2002 22:55:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 31 May 2002 21:55:18 -0700 Received: from 24.55.6.126 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 01 Jun 2002 04:55:18 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.55.6.126] From: "Maggie Secara" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Portrait at auction Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Jun 2002 04:55:18.0804 (UTC) FILETIME=[86FFAD40:01C20928] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 21:55:18 -0700 Status: RO Oh god, Margo, we really ARE the same person! I had the exact thought! MaggiRos >From: Margo Anderson >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Portrait at auction >Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 18:32:35 -0700 > >You know, I jsut checked the estimated price on this painting. I did NOT >need to know that I could own an original Gheerharts for $2-3000. Ten >times that would be impossible, but $2-3000 has me thinking..."if I just >start making costumes for money again---and pack lunches, and drive the old >clunker car for another year....." > >Oh, dear, I'm in trouble now. > >Margo >"One Tough Costumer" > > _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jun 1 02:12:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA26938 for ; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 02:12:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g51652C09357; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 00:05:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g51651x14543; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 00:05:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5164Ux14442 for ; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 00:04:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) id XAA20740 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 31 May 2002 23:23:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200206010623.XAA20740@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Photos Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 23:23:41 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO Robin Netherton wrote: > On Fri, 31 May 2002, Sheryl Nance-Durst wrote: > > Aren't the classes usually "Novice", "Journeyman" and "Master" for > > costume competitions? > > I've heard that one only in the SCA. I haven't seen many non-SCA costume > competitions, so perhaps it's used elsewhere; I wouldn't know. No, the normal classes at the major sci-fi cons are indeed Novice, Journeyman, and Master. There's a set number of wins that move you up from each class. Problem is, BayCon is no longer considered one of the "major" cons, partially because they've loosened the rules both for participation and for the classes. When it was still a major competition, I won a technical award for the mars enviornment suit that my husband and I built. I was the only person backstage who _didn't_ complain about how hot it was, because I'd built a liquid-cooled garment into the suit. That was the only "real" competition I've entered. Last year, I won best in class for Novice with my hall costume. The Lady Luck costume was a good example of what you can do when your sewing machine is broken. All the applique was done with double-faced iron-on interfacing, edged with fabric paint and glitter. All the rhinestones were glued on. The only really impressive parts of the costume (in my opinion) were the headpiece (I made a wirework crown and covered it with cut crystal beads by hand, then did a four-layer veil) and the sceptor (I built it using an antique glass doorknob as the topper and painted the shaft with the four card suits). It was a _great_ hall costume. It probably wouldn't have even placed as a masquerade costume at one of the major competitions. I _am_ tempted to take the Jedi Librarian idea and run with it... Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jun 1 02:22:29 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA00368 for ; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 02:22:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g516F2C09589; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 00:15:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g516F2x16432; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 00:15:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g516Eox16387 for ; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 00:14:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A6CC3A8B012C; Sat, 01 Jun 2002 01:16:44 -0500 Message-ID: <018301c20933$cd324100$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] buttoning direction X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 02:16:00 -0400 Status: RO Oh, I believe there is evidence out there... we just haven't found it yet! I am looking for cold hard evidence. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jun 1 09:10:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA01390 for ; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 09:10:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g51D3AC03968; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 07:03:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g51D0Mx17748; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 07:00:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web10003.mail.yahoo.com (web10003.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.39]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g51CrOx16445 for ; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 06:53:24 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020601125323.14215.qmail@web10003.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [66.44.61.31] by web10003.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 01 Jun 2002 05:53:23 PDT From: Kay Shelton To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Flat felt seam question Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 05:53:23 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO I'm making some 17th century Renaissance costumes for a stage combat troop and I'd like to flat fell the seams. Does anyone know if this is period? I was thinking flat fell because 1) I think it's sturdy, 2) I have to finish the seams somehow, and 3) I bought this foot for my Bernina. Appreciate any advice - Thanks! Kay __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jun 1 10:55:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01657 for ; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 10:55:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g51ElPC07126; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 08:47:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g51ElMx08599; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 08:47:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.60]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g51EZXx06274 for ; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 08:35:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 66-44-14-248.s1264.apx2.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com ([66.44.14.248] helo=oldwaylane.net) by smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #5) id 17E9ye-0002um-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 01 Jun 2002 10:35:32 -0400 Message-ID: <3CF8DCB3.6050302@oldwaylane.net> From: Judy Mitchell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:0.9.3) Gecko/20010801 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Photos References: <200206010623.XAA20740@gw.retro.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: judymitch@oldwaylane.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 10:39:47 -0400 Status: RO Lee Thompson-Herbert wrote: > No, the normal classes at the major sci-fi cons are indeed Novice, > Journeyman, and Master. There's a set number of wins that move you up > from each class. Perhaps Baycon might want to do what our local Darkover Con does. It only has two levels: Novice and Experienced. The regional and larger conventions usually follow the standard Novice-Journeyman-Master bit. -Judy Mitchell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jun 1 11:24:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01716 for ; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 11:24:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g51FHMC08129; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 09:17:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g51FHLx15178; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 09:17:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.lanset.com (placeholder2.lanset.com [208.187.166.2] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g51F3ix12031 for ; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 09:03:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lanset.com (unverified [208.187.245.223]) by mail2.lanset.com (Vircom SMTPRS 5.1.202) with ESMTP id for ; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 08:00:01 -0700 Message-ID: <3CF8E24B.BAB5E5DB@lanset.com> From: ldemas X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] buttoning direction References: <018301c20933$cd324100$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 08:03:39 -0700 Status: RO One theory I heard: The overlap was uniform for men and women when women's bodices had back closures. When the closures for women were moved to the front they were simply rotating resulting in a different overlap. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jun 1 17:18:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA02812 for ; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 17:18:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g51LBJC20733; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 15:11:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g51LBHx04451; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 15:11:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from tisch.mail.mindspring.net (tisch.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.157]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g51Kujx01351 for ; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 14:56:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 1cust212.tnt3.st-louis.mo.da.uu.net ([65.229.112.212] helo=hppav) by tisch.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17EFvW-0002mM-00 for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Sat, 01 Jun 2002 16:56:42 -0400 Message-ID: <001d01c209ae$e80fbc20$d470e541@hppav> From: "Genie" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Subject: [h-cost] Costume Photos/levels Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 15:57:12 -0500 Status: RO The ICG uses "novice", "journeyman", "master". Check out their website http://www.costume.org/, where I think you can find details if anyone's interested. Genie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jun 1 20:01:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA03432 for ; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 20:01:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g51NsOC26450; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 17:54:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g51NsMx09170; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 17:54:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g51NUVx04139 for ; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 17:30:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.34.108]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GX100304VYJ4Q@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 01 Jun 2002 16:30:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Photos/levels In-reply-to: <001d01c209ae$e80fbc20$d470e541@hppav> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020601150858.00d8d3d0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 15:11:06 -0700 Status: RO You and I know that, but BayCon doesn't. I compete at the Master level in F/SF and Historical, and have judged in both. I am also a founding member of the GBACG (San Francisco Bay Area). >The ICG uses "novice", "journeyman", "master". Check out their website >http://www.costume.org/, where I think you can find details if anyone's >interested. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jun 1 20:03:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA03446 for ; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 20:03:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g51NuAC26509; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 17:56:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g51NuAx09532; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 17:56:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bigred.unl.edu (bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g51Nb7x05631 for ; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 17:37:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (00217146@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.11.5/8.11.5) with ESMTP id g51Nb4G278611 for ; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 18:37:04 -0500 (CDT) From: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] buttoning direction In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 18:37:04 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO > For a woman, who would be most apt to be holding a baby in > her left arm, it would be the most convenient to reach > across and unfasten something with her right hand and pull > it open, whether it be pinned, hooked, or buttoned, > especially when it comes to nursing a baby. This is the perfect lead-in to something I've been wondering about: Do those of you who wear left- and right-buttoned shirts have any preference? Is it really any easier to do one over the other with your dominant (or free) hand? Yes, it is confusing if you're accustomed to one and suddenly have to deal with the other, but that's just a question of habit. Does handedness really matter? Emma _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jun 1 22:52:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA03851 for ; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 22:52:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g522jKC02706; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 20:45:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g522jEx13634; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 20:45:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r08.mx.aol.com (imo-r08.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.104]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g522WHx11199 for ; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 20:32:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Azelana@aol.com by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 7.3e.1f0c7792 (4012) for ; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 22:32:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Azelana@aol.com Message-ID: <3e.1f0c7792.2a2adda5@aol.com> To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 124 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Trading Spaces Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 22:32:05 EDT Status: RO << My favorite room so far is this one: http://tlc.discovery.com/fansites/tradingspaces/beforeandafter/beforeandafte r_4.html# scroll down towards the bottom and click on: "North Carolina: Southerby Drive" and then on "Doug's Room">> Ooh, that IS nice! Now you're gonna have me watching that show... <> I think it is if the room will be a background for a historical costume event or portrait, hehe. --Gillian _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jun 2 00:15:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA04078 for ; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 00:15:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5248RC05611; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 22:08:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5248Ox29677; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 22:08:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) id g523sgx27020; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 21:54:42 -0600 (MDT) From: Elizabeth Lear To: f-costume@net.indra.com, h-costume@net.indra.com Message-ID: <20020601215442.L1382@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Subject: [h-cost] hat help Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 21:54:42 -0600 Status: RO I'm making a Chinese fu tou (http://indra.com/~eliz/SCA/futou.jpg) I've made a wire frame, and now I'm trying to figure out the best way to go. I could stretch gauze over the frame, and shellac it, but I think the fabric would be loose, and I really need more than a wire frame for this. I could try stretching buckram over the frame, but it would probably bend the frame with the force of stretching. I could papier mache over the frame and paint it black (or cover it with fabric) then remove the frame, but the hat would be a bit delicate in the rain. I could papier mache over the frame and fill the mold with something that would solidify to make a sturdy hat block, then use the buckram and mold it on the sturdy block. But what to fill it with? Other suggestions I haven't thought of? I have one week - the hat has to be wearable on Saturday, June 8. Help?!? ...eliz _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jun 2 00:33:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA04109 for ; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 00:33:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g524QMC06130; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 22:26:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g524QLx03282; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 22:26:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta02ps.bigpond.com (mta02ps.bigpond.com [144.135.25.134]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g524Iwx01850 for ; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 22:18:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bigpond.com ([144.135.25.69]) by mta02ps.bigpond.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with SMTP id GX29BE00.9GG for ; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 14:18:50 +1000 Received: from ESS-p-203-54-110-119.mega.tmns.net.au ([203.54.110.119]) by PSMAM01.mailsvc.email.bigpond.com(MailRouter V3.0m 65/4511032); 02 Jun 2002 14:18:50 Message-ID: <3CFA8C35.ED31D7DA@bigpond.com> From: Claire Clarke Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] buttoning direction References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 14:20:53 -0700 Status: RO Emma Elizabeth Lehman wrote: > > For a woman, who would be most apt to be holding a baby in > > her left arm, it would be the most convenient to reach > > across and unfasten something with her right hand and pull > > it open, whether it be pinned, hooked, or buttoned, > > especially when it comes to nursing a baby. > > This is the perfect lead-in to something I've been wondering about: Do > those of you who wear left- and right-buttoned shirts have any preference? > Is it really any easier to do one over the other with your dominant (or > free) hand? Yes, it is confusing if you're accustomed to one and suddenly > have to deal with the other, but that's just a question of habit. > > Does handedness really matter? > I wear men's and women's shirts and I don't consciously notice the difference. But then, I'm generally using both hands to unbutton. Claire _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jun 2 14:56:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA11013 for ; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 14:56:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g52ImrC11311; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 12:48:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g52I5Cx06699; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 12:05:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from inet-mail4.oracle.com (inet-mail4.oracle.com [148.87.2.204]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g4VIZBx08865 for ; Fri, 31 May 2002 12:35:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from inet-mail4.oracle.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by inet-mail4.oracle.com (Switch-2.2.2/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id g4VIYCg19910 for ; Fri, 31 May 2002 11:34:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rgmgw1.us.oracle.com (rgmgw1.us.oracle.com [138.1.191.10]) by inet-mail4.oracle.com (Switch-2.2.2/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id g4VIYBo19883 for ; Fri, 31 May 2002 11:34:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bperry_pc.oracle.com (dhcp-4op9-4op10-east-130-35-175-38.us.oracle.com [130.35.175.38]) by rgmgw1.us.oracle.com (Switch-2.1.3/Switch-2.1.0) with ESMTP id g4VIZlP17614; Fri, 31 May 2002 12:35:47 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20020531113413.00a940a8@gmmail.oraclecorp.com> X-Sender: betsy.perry@gmmail.oraclecorp.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com From: Elizabeth Hanes Perry Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wearing White In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 11:35:23 -0700 Status: RO At 02:22 PM 5/31/2002 -0400, Kevin & Mara Riley wrote: >On Fri, 31 May 2002, Kate M Bunting wrote: > > You'll have to explain this for the benefit of non-Americans, Penny. I > know from news bulletins that your Memorial Day happened recently (in > Britain we remember the war dead on Nov. 11th) but when is Labor Day and > why may you not wear white between them? > >One can wear white shoes between Memorial Day (last Monday in May) and >Labor Day (first Monday in September), i.e. for summer, but not between >Labor Day and Memorial Day (i.e., fall, winter and spring), except for >Easter. I always heard this applied to shoes, not to clothing in general. That's the way I always heard it, but with an exemption for brides and babies. This shows up fairly often in pop culture -- the climax of "Serial Mom" had Kathleen Turner disposing of Patty Hearst for wearing white shoes after Labor Day. Be well, do good work, and keep in touch. - G. Keillor Betsy Hanes Perry betsy.perry@oracle.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jun 2 14:56:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA11014 for ; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 14:56:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g52ImLC10811; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 12:48:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g52IDIx08652; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 12:13:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m09.mx.aol.com (imo-m09.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.164]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g52I7lx07353 for ; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 12:07:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo-m09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.b2.c5f9528 (4553) for ; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 14:07:31 -0400 (EDT) From: MzScahlett@AOL.COM Message-ID: Subject: Re: [h-cost] hat help To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_b2.c5f9528.2a2bb8e2_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10509 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 14:07:30 EDT Status: RO --part1_b2.c5f9528.2a2bb8e2_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Eliz Have you tried one of the plastic laced buckrams like Thermoplastic or Wonderflex? They are a buckram like weave sprayed or immersed (don't know the process) with a form of heat activated plastic. They will shape perfectly with heat (use an embossing heat tool, they're only about $20- it's like a super hot blow dryer) and are rain proof, since the primary ingredient is plastic. You can cover it with fabric any way you like, sewing, glue whatever. It's very cool stuff. angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com Theatrical Costume Design "The naked truth of it is, I have no shirt." Love's Labours Lost, V, ii - W. Shakespeare --part1_b2.c5f9528.2a2bb8e2_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Eliz

Have you tried one of the plastic laced buckrams like Thermoplastic or Wonderflex? They are a buckram like weave sprayed or immersed (don't know the process) with a form of heat activated plastic. They will shape perfectly with heat (use an embossing heat tool, they're only about $20- it's like  a super hot blow dryer) and are rain proof, since the primary ingredient is plastic.  You can cover it with fabric any way you like, sewing, glue whatever.  It's very cool stuff.

angela
+++++
Angela F. Lazear
Cabbage Rose Costumes
http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com
Theatrical Costume Design

"The naked truth of it is, I have no shirt."
Love's Labours Lost, V, ii - W. Shakespeare
 --part1_b2.c5f9528.2a2bb8e2_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jun 2 14:56:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA11021 for ; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 14:56:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g52ImtC11332; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 12:48:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g52I5Ix06755; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 12:05:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13501.mail.yahoo.com (web13501.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.80]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g52Hbpx01059 for ; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 11:37:52 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020602173751.36457.qmail@web13501.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [143.192.1.15] by web13501.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 02 Jun 2002 10:37:51 PDT From: Sheila To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200205311801.g4VI1gx21472@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Re: interlining a doublet Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 10:37:51 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO I don't suppose you have a diagram/handout/phots of exactly how to do this? Kinda step by step? I've read about it but have been having a hard time visualizing exactly how it goes. Thanks! Sheila >> Re: interlining a doublet >>The second, if the outer of the doublet is of woollen >>fabric, the interlining should be pad stitched >>in.  Pad stitching is a tailoring >>technique.  You work up and down the piece, >>before making up, holding it over your left >>hand.  You make a horizontal stitch, catching as >>little as possible of the outer fabric (no more than >>a single thread is needed), and then move down to do >>the next stitch, so you end up with no stitching >>visible on the right side, but columns of long >>diagonal stitches on the wrong side. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jun 2 15:05:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA11047 for ; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 15:05:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g52IvqC19255; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 12:57:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g525kLx17978; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 23:46:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g525cYx16674 for ; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 23:38:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) id WAA17074 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 22:57:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200206020557.WAA17074@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] hat help Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 22:57:47 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO [making a fu tou, http://indra.com/~eliz/SCA/futou.jpg] It might just be a combination of the scan and my monitor, but that hat looks like it's made of leather to me. Or felt that's been well wetted and slicked down. I think the idea of making a mold then using it to shape the buckram and/or felt would be the best idea. You can buy casting plaster at most art stores. For that matter, you could probably get away with filling the paper mache form with something like Crayola Model Magic which has the advantage of coming in a big tub, no mixing required. It cures to a spongy texture, but would be sturdy enough to use as a block. It's also waterproof when cured, which puts it ahead of something like paper clay. Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jun 2 15:21:19 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA11092 for ; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 15:21:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g52IpQC13645; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 12:51:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g52I58x06672; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 12:05:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtprelay1.dc3.adelphia.net (smtprelay1.dc3.adelphia.net [24.50.78.4]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g4V5wCx26932 for ; Thu, 30 May 2002 23:58:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Maggie ([24.55.6.126]) by smtprelay1.dc3.adelphia.net (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with SMTP id GWYOKY00.B7C; Fri, 31 May 2002 01:58:10 -0400 From: "Maggie Secara" To: , Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 In-reply-to: <3CF6A0FC.9E8BA794@2xtreme.net> Subject: [h-cost] RE: [margospatterns] Costume Photos Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 23:04:22 -0700 Status: RO Oh WOW!! That's fabulous, Stephen! I have to admit I'm dying to see the gree/silver trim closer up, and whatever that green sleeve/undertunic fabric is too. But even without details, I can tell this is amazing. Northern Faire will be all a twitter! MaggiRos > -----Original Message----- > From: Stephen Bergdahl [mailto:madly@2xtreme.net] > Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 3:00 PM > To: Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com; Clan_of_Garb_Keepe@yahoogroups.com; > DanegeldTor@yahoogroups.com; f-costume@indra.com; GSACG@yahoogroups.com; > h-costume@indra.com; ICG-D@yahoogroups.com; > margospatterns@yahoogroups.com; SCA-GARB@LIST.UVM.EDU > Subject: [margospatterns] Costume Photos > > > Hello > > Over the weekend I won two awards at BayCon 2002 a SF Convention in San > Jose. You can see the winning costume at: > > http://www.2xtreme.net/madly/Costume101/Green_Man.htm > > Lord Vich (Stephen Bergdahl) > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> > Buy Stock for $4 > and no minimums. > FREE Money 2002. > http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/xX1wlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > margospatterns-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jun 2 15:33:00 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA11124 for ; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 15:32:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g52IpNC13611; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 12:51:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g52I4hx06556; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 12:04:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) id g52FANK29781 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 09:10:23 -0600 (MDT) From: Elizabeth Lear To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] hat help Message-ID: <20020602091023.A25659@net.indra.com> References: <200206020557.WAA17074@gw.retro.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200206020557.WAA17074@gw.retro.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 09:10:23 -0600 Status: RO On Sat, Jun 01, 2002 at 10:57:47PM -0700, Lee Thompson-Herbert wrote: > [making a fu tou, http://indra.com/~eliz/SCA/futou.jpg] > > It might just be a combination of the scan and my monitor, but that hat > looks like it's made of leather to me. Or felt that's been well wetted > and slicked down. The source says it's black gauze with shellac. I think they probably made them over a wood block or some other mold, so I think your ideas are good. Thanks! ...eliz _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jun 2 15:57:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA11222 for ; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 15:57:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g52JoMC22371; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 13:50:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g52JoLx01290; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 13:50:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailhost.softwareinnovation.com (w002.z064000176.dfw-tx.dsl.cnc.net [64.0.176.2]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g52Jl2x00614 for ; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 13:47:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from theforce [64.0.176.2] by mailhost.softwareinnovation.com (SMTPD32-6.00) id A65C1A0370; Sun, 02 Jun 2002 14:47:40 -0500 From: "Betsy Marshall" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] hat help Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal In-reply-to: <20020601215442.L1382@net.indra.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 14:47:40 -0500 Status: RO For that shape, this may not be helpful, but when buckram just isn't enough, I like to use the plastic "canvas" from the craft store- I like the heat-settable suggestion though, where is that stuff to be found? (my $.02) Betsy -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On Behalf Of Elizabeth Lear Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2002 10:55 PM To: f-costume@net.indra.com; h-costume@net.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] hat help I'm making a Chinese fu tou (http://indra.com/~eliz/SCA/futou.jpg) snippage Other suggestions I haven't thought of? I have one week - the hat has to be wearable on Saturday, June 8. Help?!? ...eliz _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jun 2 16:55:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA11492 for ; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 16:55:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g52KmMC24613; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 14:48:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g52KmLx13393; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 14:48:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g52KkZx12956 for ; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 14:46:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.34.108]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GX3008DWJ1MVW@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 02 Jun 2002 13:46:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Flat felt seam question In-reply-to: <20020601125323.14215.qmail@web10003.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020602133825.00d93930@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 13:41:50 -0700 Status: RO >I'm making some 17th century Renaissance costumes for >a stage combat troop and I'd like to flat fell the >seams. Does anyone know if this is period? Not according to the originals pictured in Janet Arnold. OTOH, do it anyway. Ripped out seams may be period, but they're bad theatre. My best and most authentic Ren. Faire outfit has a little pocket sewn inside for my gate pass, car keys, and lunch money. That's not period either, but neither is showing up at the event in a car in the first place. >I was >thinking flat fell because 1) I think it's sturdy, 2) >I have to finish the seams somehow, and 3) I bought >this foot for my Bernina. Appreciate any advice - >Thanks! Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jun 2 16:55:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA11496 for ; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 16:55:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g52KmaC24641; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 14:48:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g52Kmax13458; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 14:48:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g52Kkax12967 for ; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 14:46:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.34.108]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GX3008DWJ1MVW@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 02 Jun 2002 13:46:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] hat help In-reply-to: X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020602134538.00d0dbb0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 13:46:14 -0700 Status: RO >Have you tried one of the plastic laced buckrams like Thermoplastic or >Wonderflex? They are a buckram like weave sprayed or immersed (don't know >the process) with a form of heat activated plastic. They will shape >perfectly with heat (use an embossing heat tool, they're only about $20- >it's like a super hot blow dryer) and are rain proof, since the primary >ingredient is plastic. You can cover it with fabric any way you like, >sewing, glue whatever. It's very cool stuff.\ You could use plastic needlepoint canvas instead. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jun 2 22:08:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA12435 for ; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 22:08:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5321TC06356; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 20:01:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5321Qx20574; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 20:01:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g531wix19922 for ; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 19:58:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.1ac.32835e4 (4000) for ; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 21:58:28 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <1ac.32835e4.2a2c2744@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Flat felt seam question To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_1ac.32835e4.2a2c2744_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10568 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 21:58:28 EDT Status: RO --part1_1ac.32835e4.2a2c2744_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/2/2002 4:48:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kayta@frys.com writes: > OTOH, do it > anyway. Ripped out seams may be period, but they're bad theatre. Amen. Besides, haven't I seen French seams stab stitched down flat on period garments somewhere? --part1_1ac.32835e4.2a2c2744_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/2/2002 4:48:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kayta@frys.com writes:


OTOH, do it
anyway.  Ripped out seams may be period, but they're bad theatre.  


Amen. Besides, haven't I seen French seams stab stitched down flat on period garments somewhere? --part1_1ac.32835e4.2a2c2744_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 3 00:56:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA12921 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 00:56:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g534nPC12895; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 22:49:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g534nLx27385; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 22:49:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (new-comet.pacifier.com [216.65.150.155]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g534knx26957 for ; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 22:46:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 ([207.173.100.116]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g534kjc07962 for ; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 21:46:46 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wearing White Message-ID: <3CFA940B.6794.1167F401@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20020531.083406.-130785.2.Cley@juno.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 21:54:19 -0700 Status: RO > Being a Northwesterner (Oregon), I don't think we really care out > here. White's just cooler in the summer, that's all. Where I live, > open-toed Birkies are popular all year long--the difference is wool > socks, cotton socks, or no socks! > > I think it's more of a Northeastern thing. > Arlys (clothes are for wearing, not for > stressing over) Actually, it's alive and well in the NW too, Arlys! Believe me, in the upper and upper-middle classes who are involved in the fashionable world (as opposed to Joe-Blow middle class or below), the no white shoes before Easter or after Labor Day is still alive and well. Although I come from lower middle class, I went to "charm school" and did modeling (with those who were definitely "higher class" than I). It was definitely drilled into my brain. I ran into it as recently as 2 years ago in the Portland/Vancouver area. As to the trend away from this, I do believe that we are much less constrained by culture to conform to "fashion rules" than our forebearers. And the trend will continue faster now that they have that TV commercial where they talk about how it used to be "no white shoes" in the winter, but that it is changing. (Media makes trends change more rapidly because of the more rapid dissemination of information.) Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 3 00:58:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA12925 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 00:58:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g534pLC12954; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 22:51:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g534pKx27810; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 22:51:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (new-comet.pacifier.com [216.65.150.155]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g534nnx27501 for ; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 22:49:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 ([207.173.100.116]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g534nlc08692 for ; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 21:49:47 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Flat felt seam question Message-ID: <3CFA94CD.9485.116AEA63@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <1ac.32835e4.2a2c2744@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 21:57:33 -0700 Status: RO > > OTOH, do it > > anyway. Ripped out seams may be period, but they're bad theatre. > > Amen. Besides, haven't I seen French seams stab stitched down flat on > period garments somewhere? Yep. I don't have the references handy but I know you can find them in either the York digs, the MOL books or the like. Just have to look for them in more than one place. Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 3 04:21:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA09193 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 04:21:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g538EMC19103; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 02:14:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g538EKx06352; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 02:14:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g538B6x05863 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 02:11:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A5124C47012C; Mon, 03 Jun 2002 03:13:06 -0500 Message-ID: <00f401c20ad6$603a2e60$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] Class Reminder Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 04:12:16 -0400 Status: RO A reminder that JP Ryan's online class "Making a Late 18th Century Wardrobe: Pet-en-l'air or Robe ŕ la Française" begins today at the Costume Classroom. We will be accepting new students until Sunday, June 9th. You do need to have a pair of stays to take this class. Bjarne is developing a class on how to embellish this costume. Hopefully we will have this class before the end of the year. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 3 11:48:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA10477 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 11:48:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g53FfeC08453; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 09:41:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g53FfPx01420; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 09:41:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g53FdJx00130 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 09:39:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) id g53FeoJ61563 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 08:40:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200206031540.g53FeoJ61563@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] interlining a doublet In-Reply-To: <20020531075127.A10465@net.indra.com> "from Elizabeth Lear at May 31, 2002 07:51:27 am" To: h-costume@indra.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL82 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 08:40:50 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO I would recommend a tailoring technique, if you want to get it to stay in place -- if you aren't catching the interlining in the seams, it's likely to bag in the center. along the seam edge, where you have cut the underlining shorter, I would catchstitch it down the length of the seam. then I would recommend taking some long pad stitches (1.5 inches or so) down the center, say 3-5 rows, to prevent it from bagging. Heather Meadows > On Fri, May 31, 2002 at 10:51:30AM +0100, Rachel wrote: > > My question is how do I sew the interlining in without > > having to add it to the seams? > > I would cut the interlining to the size of the lining piece without > the seam allowances, then mount the interlining on the lining. > Mounting is generally done by tacking the two fabrics together at > regular intervals. You could also sew along the interlining edges - > it wouldn't be too noticeable when looking at the lining because the > stitches would be near the seams. > > Then sew the lining and fabric together, and the interlining should > butt the seams but not be in them. > > ...eliz > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 3 12:17:29 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA10587 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 12:17:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g53GANC11869; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 10:10:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g53GALx19182; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 10:10:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f187.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.187]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g53G8lx18153 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 10:08:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 09:08:39 -0700 Received: from 24.200.48.35 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 03 Jun 2002 16:08:39 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.200.48.35] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Jun 2002 16:08:39.0747 (UTC) FILETIME=[ECA9D930:01C20B18] Subject: [h-cost] Gloves and hat etiquette Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 16:08:39 +0000 Status: RO Hi, I've been wondering, since gloves and hats are very rarely worn these days (I mean, not the ones to keep warm, the ones to look nice), when should they be kept on and when should we take them off? I've always found it weird that you kept your hat on at church... Do you have to take it off the moment you walk into a house? I know it's that way for men, but for women? And what about gloves? I guess you take them off when you eat? Thanks Audrey _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 3 13:09:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10807 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 13:09:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g53H2NC17310; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 11:02:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g53H2Lx20182; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 11:02:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (new-comet.pacifier.com [216.65.150.155]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g53Gx8x18282 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 10:59:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 ([207.173.174.110]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g53Gx6c10236 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 09:59:06 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gloves and hat etiquette Message-ID: <3CFB3FB0.19318.140688C1@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 10:06:40 -0700 Status: RO > I've always found it weird that you kept your hat on at church... Do > you have to take it off the moment you walk into a house? I know it's > that way for men, but for women? Men and women wore hats for different reasons originally. Men wore them for protection from the elements, so it was polite to take them off as a show of respect (tipping your hat as you talked to someone, entering a home, going to church). Women wore hats as a sign of respect to God that their head (actually hair) was covered. (Women's hair was a "sign of vanity" and a "crown of glory.".) So, women would have been disrespectful if they *didn't* wear their hats when visiting or going to church. (It's also why women had their heads shaved when entering the cloister as a nun, why women had their heads shorn before execution, etc.) That's why in some cultures today (such as the Amish and Mennonite) women of a responsible age wear hats. It's also why women who were either married or no longer of a marriageable age "put on caps" or were expect to have a veil over their heads at all times. (They were expected to be "of responsible age.") Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 3 13:23:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10914 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 13:23:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g53HG7C19072; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 11:16:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g53HG1x29161; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 11:16:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g53HCfx26997 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 11:12:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.47.1dd33ef9 (4411) for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 13:12:29 -0400 (EDT) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Message-ID: <47.1dd33ef9.2a2cfd7d@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] hat help To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_47.1dd33ef9.2a2cfd7d_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10503 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 13:12:29 EDT Status: RO --part1_47.1dd33ef9.2a2cfd7d_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/2/2002 12:50:53 PM Pacific Daylight Time, betsy@softwareinnovation.com writes: > I like the heat-settable suggestion though, where is that stuff to be found? > (my $.02) Betsy Wonderflex can be purchased in sheets from Richard the Thread (don't have number handy?) or Dazian 1-877-432-9426. I can find out about thermoplastic if anyone wishes. angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes Theatrical Costume Design www.cabbagerosecostumes.com "If we shadows have offended, think but this, and all is mended, That you have but slumbered here, while these visions did appear." W. Shakespeare --part1_47.1dd33ef9.2a2cfd7d_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/2/2002 12:50:53 PM Pacific Daylight Time, betsy@softwareinnovation.com writes:


I like the heat-settable suggestion though, where is that stuff to be found?
(my $.02) Betsy


Wonderflex can be purchased in sheets from Richard the Thread (don't have number handy?) or Dazian 1-877-432-9426.  I can find out about thermoplastic if anyone wishes.

angela
+++++
Angela F. Lazear
Cabbage Rose Costumes
Theatrical Costume Design
www.cabbagerosecostumes.com
"If we shadows have offended, think but this,
and all is mended,
That you have but slumbered here,
while these visions did appear."
W. Shakespeare --part1_47.1dd33ef9.2a2cfd7d_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 3 13:50:00 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA11097 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 13:49:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g53HgRC21816; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 11:42:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g53HgPx16881; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 11:42:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f32.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.32]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g53Hdnx15283 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 11:39:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 10:39:44 -0700 Received: from 24.200.48.35 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 03 Jun 2002 17:39:43 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.200.48.35] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gloves and hat etiquette Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Jun 2002 17:39:44.0243 (UTC) FILETIME=[A5C1C430:01C20B25] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 17:39:43 +0000 Status: RO >From: kat@grendal.rain.com >Men and women wore hats for different reasons originally. Men >wore them for protection from the elements, so it was polite to take >them off as a show of respect (tipping your hat as you talked to >someone, entering a home, going to church). > >Women wore hats as a sign of respect to God that their head >(actually hair) was covered. (Women's hair was a "sign of vanity" >and a "crown of glory.".) So, women would have been disrespectful >if they *didn't* wear their hats when visiting or going to church. So that means a woman should always keep her hat on, even when entering a house or sitting at table to eat? And... where did they put all those hats when they took them off? _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 3 14:15:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA11242 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 14:14:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g53I80C24401; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 12:08:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g53I7vx03329; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 12:07:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m03.mx.aol.com (imo-m03.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.6]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g53I3qx00537 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 12:03:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo-m03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.188.8b955fd (4411) for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 14:03:43 -0400 (EDT) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Message-ID: <188.8b955fd.2a2d097f@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] hat help To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_188.8b955fd.2a2d097f_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10503 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 14:03:43 EDT Status: RO --part1_188.8b955fd.2a2d097f_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/2/2002 1:49:06 PM Pacific Daylight Time, kayta@frys.com writes: > >Have you tried one of the plastic laced buckrams like Thermoplastic or > >Wonderflex? They are a buckram like weave sprayed or immersed (don't know > >the process) with a form of heat activated plastic. They will shape > >perfectly with heat (use an embossing heat tool, they're only about $20- > >it's like a super hot blow dryer) and are rain proof, since the primary > >ingredient is plastic. You can cover it with fabric any way you like, > >sewing, glue whatever. It's very cool stuff.\ > > You could use plastic needlepoint canvas instead. > > Kayta It would not work for the application I suggested though. Plastic needlepoint canvas would simply melt into a puddle. Wonderflex/Thermoplastic is a buckram with the fibres coated with a form of Friendly Plastic. FP is specially designed to melt at a specific temperature and remain hard once high heats are removed. It's hard to describe without having worked with it, but it is very moldable. It has the benefit of being re-moldable too, meaning that if you don't get the perfect shape you just heat it and rework it into what you want. I think it's about $37.00 a sheet (about 45" X 45"). If you want a rounded clean finished shape, this (or felt or leather) would be the way to go, IMHO. angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes Theatrical Costume Design www.cabbagerosecostumes.com "If we shadows have offended, think but this, and all is mended, That you have but slumbered here, while these visions did appear." W. Shakespeare --part1_188.8b955fd.2a2d097f_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/2/2002 1:49:06 PM Pacific Daylight Time, kayta@frys.com writes:


>Have you tried one of the plastic laced buckrams like Thermoplastic or
>Wonderflex? They are a buckram like weave sprayed or immersed (don't know
>the process) with a form of heat activated plastic. They will shape
>perfectly with heat (use an embossing heat tool, they're only about $20-
>it's like  a super hot blow dryer) and are rain proof, since the primary
>ingredient is plastic.  You can cover it with fabric any way you like,
>sewing, glue whatever.  It's very cool stuff.\

You could use plastic needlepoint canvas instead.

Kayta


It would not work for the application I suggested though.  Plastic needlepoint canvas  would simply melt into a puddle. Wonderflex/Thermoplastic is a buckram with the fibres coated with a form of Friendly Plastic.  FP is specially designed to melt at a specific temperature and remain hard once high heats are removed.  It's hard to describe without having worked with it, but it is very moldable.  It has the benefit of being re-moldable too, meaning that if you don't get the perfect shape you just heat it and rework it into what you want. I think it's about $37.00 a sheet (about 45" X 45"). 
If you want a rounded clean finished shape, this (or felt or leather) would be the way to go, IMHO.

angela
+++++
Angela F. Lazear
Cabbage Rose Costumes
Theatrical Costume Design
www.cabbagerosecostumes.com
"If we shadows have offended, think but this,
and all is mended,
That you have but slumbered here,
while these visions did appear."
W. Shakespeare --part1_188.8b955fd.2a2d097f_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 3 14:37:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA11319 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 14:37:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g53IUSC26367; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 12:30:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g53IUOx16997; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 12:30:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g53IS2x15746 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 12:28:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.cf.17fc92b2 (4560) for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 14:27:55 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gloves and hat etiquette To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 138 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 14:27:55 EDT Status: RO Women would leave hats on at all times, except at home. In church, at lunch in a restaurant or at someone else's home, etc. But, to update the etiquette, Miss Manners says that, if girls are wearing hats like boys (for example, a ball cap at school), they are to take them off inside just as boys are supposed to. Both men and women remove gloves to eat. You can probably find all the details in an older etiquette book, like Emily Post. I think Miss Manners addresses such questions in her books, too. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 3 14:47:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA11342 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 14:47:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g53IeNC27466; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 12:40:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g53IeMx24264; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 12:40:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g53IcXx23059 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 12:38:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.34.108]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GX5001YI7S8PW@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 03 Jun 2002 11:38:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gloves and hat etiquette In-reply-to: <3CFB3FB0.19318.140688C1@localhost> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020603113720.00c75530@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 11:38:07 -0700 Status: RO >Women wore hats as a sign of respect to God that their head >(actually hair) was covered. (Women's hair was a "sign of vanity" >and a "crown of glory.".) So, women would have been disrespectful >if they *didn't* wear their hats when visiting or going to church. Some sects of the Moslem religion take this to extremes. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 3 15:16:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA11480 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 15:16:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g53J9PC00456; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 13:09:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g53J9Mx12235; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 13:09:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f273.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.14.148]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g53J5Tx09877 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 13:05:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 12:05:23 -0700 Received: from 205.163.11.113 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 03 Jun 2002 19:05:23 GMT X-Originating-IP: [205.163.11.113] From: "jessica stier" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Jun 2002 19:05:23.0896 (UTC) FILETIME=[9D3A9380:01C20B31] Subject: [h-cost] Re: Gloves and hat etiquette Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 19:05:23 +0000 Status: RO > >And... where did they put all those hats when they took them off? > Isn't this why coat and hat racks where invented? I don't know when this invention was formally introduced or if it coincides with your period, but I would think that a rack or hooks inside a house or building would be used. :) jessica _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 3 16:15:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA11795 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 16:15:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g53K8WC06370; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 14:08:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g53K8Tx22312; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 14:08:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g53K6Hx20975 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 14:06:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id ACB14057024E; Mon, 03 Jun 2002 15:08:17 -0500 Message-ID: <003201c20b3a$49a8c080$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gloves and hat etiquette X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 16:07:28 -0400 Status: RO Catholic women do not remove their hat. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 3 16:17:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA11805 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 16:17:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g53KANC06568; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 14:10:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g53KALx23592; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 14:10:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m06.mx.aol.com (imo-m06.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.161]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g53K8mx22551 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 14:08:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LalahTT@aol.com by imo-m06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.157.ec50c60 (4340) for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 16:08:36 -0400 (EDT) From: LalahTT@aol.com Message-ID: <157.ec50c60.2a2d26c4@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gloves and hat etiquette To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_157.ec50c60.2a2d26c4_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10568 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 16:08:36 EDT Status: RO --part1_157.ec50c60.2a2d26c4_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There is a ton of information in old ettiquete books on the wearing of gloves and hats, but a lady would be pretty safe in wearing the hat anywhere you want to. Ladies do not have to take their's off inside (or outside either for that matter). They didn't usually wear them at home unless they were entertaining at a formal tea or some such. Wear the gloves most of the time except when at home, shaking hands, or eating. At least that is the way we did it in my youth when people actually dressed up to go to town. Lalah Never Give up, Never Surrender, - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Looking for a great gift? Check out Beary Classy Bears at http://hometown.aol.com/bearyclassybears/myhomepage/sale.html --part1_157.ec50c60.2a2d26c4_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit    There is a ton of information in old ettiquete books on the wearing of gloves and hats, but a lady would be pretty safe in wearing the hat anywhere you want to.  Ladies do not have to take their's off inside (or outside either for that matter).  They didn't usually wear them at home unless they were entertaining at a formal tea or some such.  Wear the gloves most of the time except when at home, shaking hands, or eating.  At least that is the way we did it in my youth when people actually dressed up to go to town.

Lalah
Never Give up, Never Surrender,
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Looking for a great gift?  Check out Beary Classy Bears at
http://hometown.aol.com/bearyclassybears/myhomepage/sale.html

--part1_157.ec50c60.2a2d26c4_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 3 16:19:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA11811 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 16:19:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g53KCPC06744; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 14:12:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g53KCOx24962; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 14:12:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g53KAEx23533 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 14:10:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id AD9F2C5201F6; Mon, 03 Jun 2002 15:12:15 -0500 Message-ID: <004b01c20b3a$d747a280$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gloves and hat etiquette X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 16:11:25 -0400 Status: RO My costume history professor said that women in the 30s onward take their hats off when entering a home. Shopping in a store and eating lunch you keep it on. Dinner you take it off. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 1:39 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gloves and hat etiquette > >From: kat@grendal.rain.com > > >Men and women wore hats for different reasons originally. Men > >wore them for protection from the elements, so it was polite to take > >them off as a show of respect (tipping your hat as you talked to > >someone, entering a home, going to church). > > > >Women wore hats as a sign of respect to God that their head > >(actually hair) was covered. (Women's hair was a "sign of vanity" > >and a "crown of glory.".) So, women would have been disrespectful > >if they *didn't* wear their hats when visiting or going to church. > > > > So that means a woman should always keep her hat on, even when entering a > house or sitting at table to eat? > > And... where did they put all those hats when they took them off? > > _________________________________________________________________ > Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. > http://www.hotmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 3 16:25:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA11849 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 16:25:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g53KIMC07384; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 14:18:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g53KIMx28697; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 14:18:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g53KGtx27764 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 14:16:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id AF305236012C; Mon, 03 Jun 2002 15:18:56 -0500 Message-ID: <005401c20b3b$c5fa81e0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gloves and hat etiquette X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 16:18:06 -0400 Status: RO Rule in my house... if one of my sons sits at the dinner table and does not take off their hat, I have a right to pop them in the head. Don't ask for them to remove... they will figure it out after being popped. We also have a rule that guys have to wear a shirt at the dinner table. Even if they just come in from swim team. If they don't wear a shirt... a riot starts by the others at the table. Its like everyone wants to attack the shirtless person. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 3 16:49:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA11965 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 16:49:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g53KgNC09668; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 14:42:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g53KgMx13916; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 14:42:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r07.mx.aol.com (imo-r07.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.103]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g53KdHx11882 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 14:39:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LalahTT@aol.com by imo-r07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.115.12636dea (4116) for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 16:39:08 -0400 (EDT) From: LalahTT@aol.com Message-ID: <115.12636dea.2a2d2dec@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gloves and hat etiquette To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_115.12636dea.2a2d2dec_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10568 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 16:39:08 EDT Status: RO --part1_115.12636dea.2a2d2dec_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Don't know about costume history, but we never took our hats off to eat at a restaurant. We didn't take them off the minute we entered a house either unless it was our house and we were so glad to get the silly thing off. Just speaking from past experience. Don't even own a hat now except for a straw hat to use out in the sun. Too bad too, I loved hats. Lalah Never Give up, Never Surrender, - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Looking for a great gift? Check out Beary Classy Bears at http://hometown.aol.com/bearyclassybears/myhomepage/sale.html --part1_115.12636dea.2a2d2dec_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit      Don't know about costume history, but we never took our hats off to eat at a restaurant.  We didn't take them off the minute we entered a house either unless it was our house and we were so glad to get the silly thing off.  Just speaking from past experience.  Don't even own a hat now except for a straw hat to use out in the sun.  Too bad too, I loved hats.

Lalah
Never Give up, Never Surrender,
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
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--part1_115.12636dea.2a2d2dec_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 3 18:11:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA12256 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 18:11:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g53M4ZC23415; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 16:04:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g53M4Xx11725; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 16:04:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f193.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.193]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g53M1Nx09326 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 16:01:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 15:01:18 -0700 Received: from 207.137.181.62 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 03 Jun 2002 22:01:17 GMT X-Originating-IP: [207.137.181.62] From: "Maggie Secara" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gloves and hat etiquette Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Jun 2002 22:01:18.0031 (UTC) FILETIME=[2FFBC5F0:01C20B4A] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 15:01:17 -0700 Status: RO If you watch old movies (especially anything in black and white :) you'll see women never take off their hats when visiting for tea, or dining out or shopping. Dinner at someone's home seems to have been a non-hat affair for women. Where did men put their hats? In the 16th century, an Englishmen took his off with the reverence (bow) and held it in one hand for the duration of the conversation. This was apparently not the case elsewhere, because the Venetian ambassador saw fit to comment on it, as a mark of how polite the English were. MaggiRos >From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gloves and hat etiquette >Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 17:39:43 +0000 > >>From: kat@grendal.rain.com > >>Men and women wore hats for different reasons originally. Men >>wore them for protection from the elements, so it was polite to take >>them off as a show of respect (tipping your hat as you talked to >>someone, entering a home, going to church). >> >>Women wore hats as a sign of respect to God that their head >>(actually hair) was covered. (Women's hair was a "sign of vanity" >>and a "crown of glory.".) So, women would have been disrespectful >>if they *didn't* wear their hats when visiting or going to church. > > > >So that means a woman should always keep her hat on, even when entering a >house or sitting at table to eat? > >And... where did they put all those hats when they took them off? > >_________________________________________________________________ >Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. >http://www.hotmail.com > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 3 18:23:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA12325 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 18:23:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g53MGQC26047; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 16:16:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g53MGPx19800; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 16:16:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (new-asteroid.pacifier.com [216.65.150.154]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g53MEWx18526 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 16:14:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 ([207.173.164.221]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g53METs15254 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 15:14:30 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gloves and hat etiquette Message-ID: <3CFB8994.4875.152739E0@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 15:21:56 -0700 Status: RO > So that means a woman should always keep her hat on, even when > entering a house or sitting at table to eat? You would not take your hat off when entering a house. You would keep your hat on when taking tea with someone, but not in your own house. Elaborate hairstyles in some periods took the place of hats (such as Italian Rennaisance and later) for evening use. Earlier they wore them even when eating banquets. (Perhaps even at home for fancy dinners, depending on the time period.) > And... where did they put all those hats when they took them off? If you were a woman, you wouldn't really take them off except at home. Then they would go in their hatbox or on a peg. Men, on the other hand, handed them to a major domo or butler who would put them on a hall table or in a room off the hall, depending on the household. Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 3 18:41:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA12385 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 18:41:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g53MYMC28743; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 16:34:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g53MYLx00445; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 16:34:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (new-comet.pacifier.com [216.65.150.155]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g53MVZx28738 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 16:31:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 ([207.173.164.221]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g53MVXc05843 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 15:31:33 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gloves and hat etiquette Message-ID: <3CFB8D82.14032.15369224@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <004b01c20b3a$d747a280$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 15:38:42 -0700 Status: RO > My costume history professor said that women in the 30s onward take > their hats off when entering a home. Shopping in a store and eating > lunch you keep it on. Dinner you take it off. That probably really depends on where they live. In the 50s and even into the 60s in the NW US, the hats were left on when visiting. Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 3 18:41:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA12389 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 18:41:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g53MYWC28764; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 16:34:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g53MYVx00556; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 16:34:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (new-comet.pacifier.com [216.65.150.155]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g53MVdx28770 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 16:31:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 ([207.173.164.221]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g53MVcc05882 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 15:31:38 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gloves and hat etiquette Message-ID: <3CFB8D82.13993.153691DB@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <115.12636dea.2a2d2dec@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 15:38:42 -0700 Status: RO > Don't even own > a hat now except for a straw hat to use out in the sun. Too bad too, > I loved hats. No hats! How awful for you. I have a whole room filled with hats. I never leave the house without one. I have vintage hats, modern hats, period reconstruction hats. I *love* hats! (That's why some people have called me "Hat Kat" to distinguish me from all the other Kat's around.) Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 3 18:57:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA12431 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 18:57:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g53MoOC29953; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 16:50:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g53MoLx08183; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 16:50:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r03.mx.aol.com (imo-r03.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.99]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g53MmHx07147 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 16:48:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-r03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.1a3.3312fd3 (25510) for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 18:48:01 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <1a3.3312fd3.2a2d4c21@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gloves and hat etiquette To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 138 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 18:48:01 EDT Status: RO In a message dated 6/3/2002 4:12:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time, penny@costumegallery.com writes: << Dinner you take it off. >> I thought you wore charming little cocktail hats for this and left them on? Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 3 19:01:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA12462 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 19:01:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g53MsOC00338; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 16:54:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g53MsOx10246; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 16:54:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m06.mx.aol.com (imo-m06.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.161]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g53Mpbx08870 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 16:51:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.150.ec75a4b (25510) for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 18:51:26 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <150.ec75a4b.2a2d4cee@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gloves and hat etiquette To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 138 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 18:51:26 EDT Status: RO In a message dated 6/3/2002 6:35:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kat@grendal.rain.com writes: << some people have called me "Hat Kat" >> But not "Kat in the Hat"? (Sorry, I couldn't resist.) I wear hats sometimes. I have a couple of lovely modern hats, a vintage one or two, and of course my early 19th century bonnets and turbans. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 3 19:23:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA12540 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 19:23:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g53NGNC01992; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 17:16:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g53NGMx20227; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 17:16:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g53NEWx19388 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 17:14:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A8D224CC021A; Mon, 03 Jun 2002 18:16:34 -0500 Message-ID: <010e01c20b54$85012b80$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <1a3.3312fd3.2a2d4c21@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gloves and hat etiquette X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 19:15:14 -0400 Status: RO Maybe this is another one of those "Southern mannerisms." A quick way to get popped by a parent is to wear a hat or no shirt/dirty shirt at the table. I have seen parents popping kids for doing this in several films too. Mom's also like to SEE the kids' hands to make sure they are clean before they can eat. The common line is "Show me your hands." Another reason to get popped... dirty hands. Its called "Clean up for dinner." If you don't do it properly... you get popped. I warned you all that I am a Southern Belle. There are certain things we do a little different than the rest of the world. Mom's pop kids with her hand or a spoon. Dad's like to pop with newspapers... especially boys about the hats. (((wondering if the none Southern list members think we live in Gone with the Wind))) Remember that Ann the next time we eat together. There is a possibly you could get popped! LOL!!! Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 3 19:27:10 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA12555 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 19:27:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g53NKMC02265; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 17:20:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g53NKLx21846; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 17:20:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g53NHkx20786 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 17:17:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A9935559012C; Mon, 03 Jun 2002 18:19:47 -0500 Message-ID: <011601c20b54$f6de08e0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <150.ec75a4b.2a2d4cee@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gloves and hat etiquette X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 19:18:26 -0400 Status: RO I like to wear hats too... 99% modern... especially this time of the year. I do collect modern and vintage hat boxes. My best boxes at in stacks in my dining room for decoration. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 3 20:19:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA12764 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 20:19:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g540CNC05653; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 18:12:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g540CLx12781; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 18:12:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g540ANx12139 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 18:10:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default.attbi.com ([24.245.40.15]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020604001017.KOZN11426.rwcrmhc51.attbi.com@default.attbi.com> for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 00:10:17 +0000 Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20020603190959.032a55a0@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: dannw@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Subject: Re: [h-cost] Class Reminder In-Reply-To: <00f401c20ad6$603a2e60$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g540ANx12139 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 19:10:26 -0500 Status: RO Will there be another 18th c. stays class before the next version of this class is run? Cheers, Danielle At 04:12 AM 6/3/2002 -0400, you wrote: >A reminder that JP Ryan's online class "Making a Late 18th Century Wardrobe: >Pet-en-l'air or Robe ŕ la Française" begins today at the Costume Classroom. >We will be accepting new students until Sunday, June 9th. You do need to >have a pair of stays to take this class. > >Bjarne is developing a class on how to embellish this costume. Hopefully we >will have this class before the end of the year. > >Penny Ladnier >Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom >http://www.costumegallery.com >http://www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 3 20:31:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA12815 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 20:31:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g540OMC06322; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 18:24:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g540OLx17221; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 18:24:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc54.attbi.com (rwcrmhc54.attbi.com [216.148.227.87]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g540LLx16151 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 18:21:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from C59303A ([12.238.186.197]) by rwcrmhc54.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020604002115.NIAU13253.rwcrmhc54.attbi.com@C59303A> for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 00:21:15 +0000 Message-ID: <15df01c20b5d$c3c72eb0$c5baee0c@mckiny1.tx.home.com> From: "Chiara" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gloves and hat etiquette MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 19:16:36 -0500 Status: RO I dearly miss hats and gloves. :( Ok, catholic kid here. At our catholic school part of the uniform were gloves that we had to make ourselves and these cute little sailor hats. We wore them to church and field trips only. We never ate outside the school so that was never an issue. One of my favorite period movies is The Age of Innocence (1993). There is a scene where the couples are eating, all the ladies are one side the men on the opposite side of the table. All the ladies have their gloves tucked into that little opening at the wrist of only one hand. I think they are eating soup. You can see the fingers of the gloves just peeking out of the opening. Sincerely, Franchesca Vecchio Havas McKinney, Texas `°ş¤ř,¸¸,ř¤ş°` ----- Original Message ----- From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 11:08 AM Subject: [h-cost] Gloves and hat etiquette > Hi, > > I've been wondering, since gloves and hats are very rarely worn these days > (I mean, not the ones to keep warm, the ones to look nice), when should they > be kept on and when should we take them off? > > I've always found it weird that you kept your hat on at church... Do you > have to take it off the moment you walk into a house? I know it's that way > for men, but for women? > > And what about gloves? I guess you take them off when you eat? > > Thanks > > Audrey > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 3 20:39:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA12838 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 20:39:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g540WNC06814; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 18:32:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g540WNx20083; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 18:32:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g540Ucx19448 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 18:30:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id AAA8562A012C; Mon, 03 Jun 2002 19:32:40 -0500 Message-ID: <019901c20b5f$10c8f800$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <5.0.0.25.2.20020603190959.032a55a0@mail.attbi.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Class Reminder X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 20:30:44 -0400 Status: RO Danielle, Janice wants to re-run the series so people can have a sackback gown for the Halloween season if they wish. The stays class will begin Aug. 26 and is four weeks long. The sackback gown (Robe ŕ la Française) will begin Sept. 24 and is five weeks long. These dates are on the schedule now for registration. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 3 20:49:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA12868 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 20:49:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g540gLC07337; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 18:42:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g540gKx23136; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 18:42:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bigred.unl.edu (bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g540egx22662 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 18:40:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (00217146@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.11.5/8.11.5) with ESMTP id g540eea218923 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 19:40:40 -0500 (CDT) From: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gloves and hat etiquette In-Reply-To: <003201c20b3a$49a8c080$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 19:40:40 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, Penny Ladnier wrote: > Catholic women do not remove their hat. What, *never*?!? Emma _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 3 21:48:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA13054 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 21:48:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g541f2C10368; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 19:41:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g541f1x11801; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 19:41:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web14002.mail.yahoo.com (web14002.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.93]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g541eDx11565 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 19:40:13 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020604014013.60517.qmail@web14002.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.175.103.70] by web14002.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 03 Jun 2002 18:40:13 PDT From: Cin Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gloves and hat etiquette To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 18:40:13 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO > > Catholic women do not remove their hat. > What, *never*?!? "Well, hardly ever" --Gilbert & Sullivan ===== --cin Cynthia hysteria95126@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 3 22:39:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA13243 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 22:39:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g542X6C12691; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 20:33:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g542X0x26679; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 20:33:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from infoblvd.net (infoblvd.net [216.42.64.4]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g542WMx26535 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 20:32:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from straight [216.42.122.232] by infoblvd.net (SMTPD32-7.06) id A8943544014E; Mon, 03 Jun 2002 22:40:20 -0400 From: "STRAIGHT " To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Gloves and hat etiquette Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 In-Reply-To: <3CFB8D82.14032.15369224@localhost> Importance: Normal X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 22:43:23 -0400 Status: RO Depends on the hat and the time period, too. Those little clip-on ones of the 40's were quite a different affair from a big broad brimmed Gone-With-The-Wind job, or the kind that took half an hour to install. Ever see the old theatre slides ---"Ladies, please remove your hats"? They were of a big hat period. Sunbonnets, now, were something else entirely. I love all the different hat eras. And then, of course, there were the seasonal ones. The little wired clip-on ones were primarily for summer, or mild fall. In winter people wore something considerably heavier. Then, of course, there are the flapper headbands! Hmmm, is that a hat, or not? Yes, they did wear them for formal, my MIL was married in a lace one that held the veil. It does solve the "bad hair day" problem but immediately creates another one, just as bad or worse---- having the right hat for every outfit! And, of course, hat, shoes, belt, and gloves were supposed to match, or at least go together and go with the outfit. Diane S. ----with a closetful of hats I never wear _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 3 22:47:59 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA13359 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 22:47:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g542f1C13121; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 20:41:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g542f1x29231; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 20:41:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f91.law14.hotmail.com [64.4.21.91]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g542eRx29043 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 20:40:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 19:40:22 -0700 Received: from 169.233.40.178 by lw14fd.law14.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 04 Jun 2002 02:40:21 GMT X-Originating-IP: [169.233.40.178] From: "Kala Jathos" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Jun 2002 02:40:22.0562 (UTC) FILETIME=[2C807020:01C20B71] Subject: [h-cost] 1760's Corset help? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 19:40:21 -0700 Status: RO Well, it's summertime, and my professor in costume design is having me do an independant study construction project for next fall - I'll be making a 1760's Watteu-back gown. But for a summer project, I'm supposed to make foundation garments for such a dress, and this is where I'm somewhat lost. I'm more familliar with Victorian corsetry than Elizabethan, and more familliar with Elizabethan than Rococo... Basically, I have *No* clue where to start with this one. So here I am, asking for help and suggestions. :) Can anyone reccomend a good pattern for me? Should I be looking for something boned, or one of the cord or reed stuffed stays? Does anyone have any tips or suggestions on construction, materials, etc? I've got a yard of 60" natural-colored cotton duck all happily pre-shrunk and waiting for me, but I'm not sure if that's a suitable substitute for coutil. Can anyone advise me? Thanks! -Laura _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 3 23:02:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA13568 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 23:02:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g542u1C13738; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 20:56:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g542u0x03542; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 20:56:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc54.attbi.com (rwcrmhc54.attbi.com [216.148.227.87]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g542t9x03308 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 20:55:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default.attbi.com ([24.245.40.15]) by rwcrmhc54.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020604025503.SLHF13253.rwcrmhc54.attbi.com@default.attbi.com> for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 02:55:03 +0000 Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20020603211646.03278d00@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: dannw@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Subject: Re: [h-cost] Class Reminder In-Reply-To: <019901c20b5f$10c8f800$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20020603190959.032a55a0@mail.attbi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g542t9x03308 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 21:45:15 -0500 Status: RO Thank you! It's a period I've always wanted to do. I will have to get started on stays & panniers this summer. Cheers, Danielle At 08:30 PM 6/3/2002 -0400, you wrote: >Danielle, > >Janice wants to re-run the series so people can have a sackback gown for the >Halloween season if they wish. The stays class will begin Aug. 26 and is >four weeks long. The sackback gown (Robe ŕ la Française) will begin Sept. >24 and is five weeks long. These dates are on the schedule now for >registration. > >Penny Ladnier >Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom >http://www.costumegallery.com >http://www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 3 23:03:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA13573 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 23:03:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g542uEC13761; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 20:56:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g542uDx03625; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 20:56:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc54.attbi.com (rwcrmhc54.attbi.com [216.148.227.87]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g542tGx03355 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 20:55:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default.attbi.com ([24.245.40.15]) by rwcrmhc54.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020604025511.SLJK13253.rwcrmhc54.attbi.com@default.attbi.com> for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 02:55:11 +0000 Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20020603214602.031f56c0@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: dannw@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for Helleu prints In-Reply-To: References: <5.0.0.25.2.20020530224413.02558c00@mail.attbi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g542tGx03355 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 21:46:38 -0500 Status: RO Thank you so much! His work is gorgeous and someday I would love to own one of his prints... Cheers, Danielle At 09:30 AM 5/31/2002 -0700, you wrote: >Danielle - I looked in the Library of Congress catalog and there are 5 >entries but they are all old. Neither my university library or city library >has any of them but here's the information in case it helps at all... > >Coordinating council of French relief societies inc. New York. and G. d. >Batz (1943). Helleu & Sargent drawings. New York City. > >Helleu, P. (1907). A gallery of portraits : reproduced from original >etchings. London, Edward Arnold. > >Montesquiou-Fâezensac, R. (1913). Paul Helleu, peintre et graveur. Paris,, >H. Floury. > >Paris. Bibliotháeque nationale., J. Vallery-Radot, et al. (1955). Helleu; >exposition. Paris,. > >Wedmore, F., B. Rogers, et al. (1901). Dry-points by Paul Helleu. New York, >Frederick Keppel & Co. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 3 23:18:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA13741 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 23:18:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g543C1C14446; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 21:12:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g543C0x07783; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 21:12:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (oe58.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.193]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g543B9x07568 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 21:11:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 20:11:03 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [24.200.48.35] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: References: <3CFB8D82.13993.153691DB@localhost> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gloves and hat etiquette MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Jun 2002 03:11:03.0924 (UTC) FILETIME=[7609FB40:01C20B75] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 23:11:12 -0400 Status: RO > No hats! How awful for you. > > I have a whole room filled with hats. I never leave the house without > one. I have vintage hats, modern hats, period reconstruction hats. I > *love* hats! (That's why some people have called me "Hat Kat" to > distinguish me from all the other Kat's around.) I understand perfectly.. I love hats, but I've just started wearing some, and it takes some time getting used to it, finding the right ones for my shape of head, etc. I think it's one of the saddest things that happend to fashion in the last years, that people don't wear hats anymore... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 3 23:29:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA13890 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 23:29:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g543MEC14991; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 21:22:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g543MEx10625; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 21:22:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g543L6x10354 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 21:21:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pool-63.50.74.159.rlgh.grid.net ([63.50.74.159] helo=faucet.net) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17F4sa-0006Yq-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 03 Jun 2002 20:21:05 -0700 Message-ID: <3CFC3FE8.58A0BFF8@faucet.net> From: Melanie Schuessler X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1760's Corset help? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 22:19:55 -0500 Status: RO Kala Jathos wrote: > > But for a summer project, I'm supposed to make > foundation garments for such a dress, and this is where I'm somewhat lost. <...> > Can anyone reccomend a good pattern for me? Should I be looking for > something boned, or one of the cord or reed stuffed stays? You could ILL a copy of Norah Waugh's _Corsets and Crinolines_. It has gridded patterns taken (I believe) from actual corsets as well as information on how they were worn and what they were made of. The mid-18th century one is quite nice--I've made it myself. I believe it was originally boned with whalebone. (I wish I could look it up, but the books are all still packed from my recent move.) The archives of this list have several messages on the pros and cons of modern synthetic whalebone. To scale up gridded patterns, use radial projection. If you aren't familiar with the technique, there should also be a message from me in the archive describing it. If you need it and can't find it, email me privately and I'll give you a synopsis. Best of luck, Melanie Schuessler _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 3 23:29:29 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA13912 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 23:29:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g543L1C14920; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 21:21:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g543L1x10321; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 21:21:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from blount.mail.mindspring.net (blount.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.226]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g543KSx10152 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 21:20:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from user-38lc2ak.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.9.84]) by blount.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17F4ry-0000dD-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 03 Jun 2002 23:20:26 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org (Unverified) Message-Id: To: h-costume@indra.com From: Chris Laning Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] Bag Hats & Stocking Caps Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 23:50:06 -0700 Status: RO I'm wondering if anyone can point me to pictures (hopefully online) of people wearing a particular type of soft hat between about 1350 and 1600. Basically, it's a hat constructed like a pouch, only upside down -- a cylinder, open at the bottom and closed by a straight seam across the top. The top can flop, or be arranged, in a number of different ways -- just flopped over to one side, tuck the corners in for a rounded effect, leave them loose, wear it with the seam crosswise on the head or front-to-back, or even with the two corners tied or sewn together to make a sort of pointed top. Variations include a tapered cylinder and the so-called "stocking cap" where the taper continues till the hat comes to a point. The reason I'm asking (hat in hand???) is that I am actually doing that dreadful, shameful thing , retro-documentation. I have these vague feelings that I've seen such hats somewhere, they seem to me like a logical type of simple hat to construct, and I'm hoping that this _is_ something people actually did. (Of course, since I'm trying to be a scholar, negative evidence would also be of interest.) TIA, -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 4 00:07:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA14526 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 00:07:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g54412C16849; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 22:01:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g54410x21080; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 22:01:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m03.mx.aol.com (imo-m03.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.6]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g54407x20786 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 22:00:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from M311@aol.com by imo-m03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.1aa.3373e70 (4329) for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 23:59:59 -0400 (EDT) From: M311@aol.com Message-ID: <1aa.3373e70.2a2d953f@aol.com> To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_1aa.3373e70.2a2d953f_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10513 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Wearing White Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 23:59:59 EDT Status: RO --part1_1aa.3373e70.2a2d953f_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Around here, central Illinois, the rule is no white before Easter. Easter Sunday starts the wearing of white and then it is supposed to end on Labor Day. It is followed around here by lots of people still. Kelly --part1_1aa.3373e70.2a2d953f_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Around here, central Illinois, the rule is no white before Easter.  Easter Sunday starts the wearing of white and then it is supposed to end on Labor Day.  It is followed around here by lots of people still.
Kelly
 --part1_1aa.3373e70.2a2d953f_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 4 00:16:00 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA14543 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 00:15:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g54491C17236; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 22:09:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g54491x23249; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 22:09:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r05.mx.aol.com (imo-r05.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.101]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5448Vx23107 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 22:08:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from M311@aol.com by imo-r05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.a2.267e7e61 (4329) for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 00:08:22 -0400 (EDT) From: M311@aol.com Message-ID: To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_a2.267e7e61.2a2d9736_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10513 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Gloves and hat etiquette Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 00:08:22 EDT Status: RO --part1_a2.267e7e61.2a2d9736_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/3/2002 12:20:15 PM Central Daylight Time, h-costume-request@indra.com writes: > That's why in some cultures today (such as the Amish and > Mennonite) women of a responsible age wear hats. Not all Mennonite women where headcoverings. It depends on the denomenation. I attend the Evangelical Mennonite Church and our Church doesn't wear headcoverings. There is one lady in the Church who likes to wear hats to Church but the are just regular dress hats. Kelly m311@aol.com --part1_a2.267e7e61.2a2d9736_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/3/2002 12:20:15 PM Central Daylight Time, h-costume-request@indra.com writes:


That's why in some cultures today (such as the Amish and
Mennonite) women of a responsible age wear hats.


Not all Mennonite women where headcoverings.  It depends on the denomenation.  I attend the Evangelical Mennonite Church and our Church doesn't wear headcoverings.  There is one lady in the Church who likes to wear hats to Church but the are just regular dress hats.
Kelly
m311@aol.com --part1_a2.267e7e61.2a2d9736_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 4 00:44:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA14607 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 00:44:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g544W1C18225; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 22:32:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g544W0x29331; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 22:32:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (new-comet.pacifier.com [216.65.150.155]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g544VQx29057 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 22:31:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 ([207.173.125.3]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g544VOc02522 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 21:31:25 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gloves and hat etiquette Message-ID: <3CFBE1F3.13974.1680777B@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <150.ec75a4b.2a2d4cee@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 21:38:59 -0700 Status: RO > << some people have called me "Hat Kat" >> > But not "Kat in the Hat"? Oddly enough, no. But then my husband is *very* large and *very* protective. ;) Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 4 00:56:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA14650 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 00:56:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g544o4C18845; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 22:50:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g544o1x04083; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 22:50:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (new-asteroid.pacifier.com [216.65.150.154]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g544nbx03928 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 22:49:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 ([207.173.125.3]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g544nYs12837 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 21:49:35 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Mennonite clothing, was: Gloves and hat etiquette Message-ID: <3CFBE624.3156.1690D793@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 21:56:52 -0700 Status: RO > > That's why in some cultures today (such as the Amish and > > Mennonite) women of a responsible age wear hats. > > Not all Mennonite women where headcoverings. It depends on the > denomenation. > I attend the Evangelical Mennonite Church and our Church doesn't wear > > headcoverings. There is one lady in the Church who likes to wear hats > to Church but the are just regular dress hats. Kelly m311@aol.com I spent some time this weekend with some Mennonite ladies. One of the things they say is that you can tell which branch of the church they are by looking at what they wear. The more strict, the more the hair is covered. The ladies I was with mostly wore little doily like things although one had a transparent linen box like hat over her bun. (And she won't reveal the catalog where she gets them either!) The older ladies had their hair completely covered. (Although one of the older ladies was in one of the more strict branches.) They say that you can also tell by looking at the color of their clothing, whether they wear a specific dress pattern and whether they can wear things like Reebocs. It must be something like the differences between the different ways that Jews (such as Orthodox vs Reformed) dress. Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 4 01:28:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA14724 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 01:28:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g545L1C20007; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 23:21:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g545L0x11881; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 23:21:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from q4.quik.com (q4.quik.com [216.176.28.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g545KKx11742 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 23:20:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from downstairs (ip058.vb.quik.com [216.176.5.58]) by q4.quik.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g545KIB29156 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 22:20:18 -0700 From: "Anne Moeller" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] hat help Message-ID: <000601c20b88$a9e35160$696dfea9@downstairs> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C20B67.22D1B160" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <47.1dd33ef9.2a2cfd7d@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 01:28:29 -0400 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C20B67.22D1B160 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I would LOVE to have more info about this product. Thanks, Anne -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of MzScahlett@aol.com Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 1:12 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] hat help In a message dated 6/2/2002 12:50:53 PM Pacific Daylight Time, betsy@softwareinnovation.com writes: I like the heat-settable suggestion though, where is that stuff to be found? (my $.02) Betsy Wonderflex can be purchased in sheets from Richard the Thread (don't have number handy?) or Dazian 1-877-432-9426. I can find out about thermoplastic if anyone wishes. angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes Theatrical Costume Design www.cabbagerosecostumes.com "If we shadows have offended, think but this, and all is mended, That you have but slumbered here, while these visions did appear." W. Shakespeare ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C20B67.22D1B160 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
I=20 would LOVE to have more info about this product.  Thanks,=20 Anne
-----Original Message-----
From:=20 h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On = Behalf Of=20 MzScahlett@aol.com
Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 1:12=20 PM
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] = hat=20 help

In a message=20 dated 6/2/2002 12:50:53 PM Pacific Daylight Time, = betsy@softwareinnovation.com=20 writes:


I like the heat-settable suggestion though, where is = that stuff=20 to be found?
(my $.02) Betsy


Wonderflex can = be=20 purchased in sheets from Richard the Thread (don't have number handy?) = or=20 Dazian 1-877-432-9426.  I can find out about thermoplastic if = anyone=20 wishes.

angela
+++++
Angela F. Lazear
Cabbage Rose=20 Costumes
Theatrical Costume = Design
www.cabbagerosecostumes.com
"If we=20 shadows have offended, think but this,
and all is mended,
That = you have=20 but slumbered here,
while these visions did appear."
W.=20 Shakespeare
3D"Compu-Zoo
 ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C20B67.22D1B160-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 4 07:44:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA11148 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 07:44:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g54Bc4C00750; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 05:38:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g54Bc2x06148; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 05:38:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f130.law12.hotmail.com [64.4.19.130]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g54Bbex06072 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 05:37:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 04:37:34 -0700 Received: from 63.12.15.147 by lw12fd.law12.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 04 Jun 2002 11:37:34 GMT X-Originating-IP: [63.12.15.147] From: "Rebecca Anderson" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gloves and hat etiquette Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Jun 2002 11:37:34.0911 (UTC) FILETIME=[387A94F0:01C20BBC] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 21:07:34 +0930 Status: RO

Have you ever seen the kids book "I like hats"
Rebecca
 
Kat wrote:

> Don't even own
> a hat now except for a straw hat to use out in the sun.  Too bad too,
> I loved hats.

No hats! How awful for you.

I have a whole room filled with hats. I never leave the house without
one. I have vintage hats, modern hats, period reconstruction hats. I
*love* hats! (That's why some people have called me "Hat Kat" to
distinguish me from all the other Kat's around.)


Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: Click Here
_______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 4 08:38:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA11511 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 08:38:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g54CW3C02251; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 06:32:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g54CW2x17584; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 06:32:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g54CVbx17508 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 06:31:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.133.149.152] (pm5-152.eos.net [205.133.149.152]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA09178 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 08:31:35 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200206040451.g544p2x04287@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: hats Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 08:23:33 -0400 Status: RO on 6/4/02 12:51 AM, h-costume-request@indra.com at h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: > On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, Penny Ladnier wrote: > >> Catholic women do not remove their hat. > > > What, *never*?!? > > Emma > Well . . . HARDLY ever. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 4 08:43:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA11593 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 08:43:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g54Cb2C02434; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 06:37:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g54Cb2x18855; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 06:37:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g54Cadx18758 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 06:36:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g54CacJJ008424 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 08:36:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: Costume List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] Wool Crepe - date of use? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 08:36:38 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO At what date did people start wearing wool crepe? I think it's 19th century, but am not quite sure. Thanks, Mara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 4 08:46:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA11609 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 08:46:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g54Ce2C02532; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 06:40:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g54Ce2x19624; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 06:40:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g54CdEx19473 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 06:39:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.133.149.152] (pm5-152.eos.net [205.133.149.152]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA10989 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 08:39:12 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200206040451.g544p2x04287@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: mennonites Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 08:31:10 -0400 Status: RO I went to a Mennonite charity auction last year in New Bremen Ohio. It's an annual event and people come from all over to buy things. The money goes to missions in Haiti. Anyway, there is a big difference between the way different branches of Mennonites dress, and it was fun to see them all in one place. Most of the women looked so pretty, I felt downright ugly in shorts and a t-shirt. Some of them wore only plain colors (the Amish, of course -- although there are several varieties of Amish), some wore small prints. Some wore only particular patterns of dress, and others wore what you might call "modest" but otherwise mainstream dress. I saw lots of different hair styles and hats, too. Most of the items were big-ticket things like quilts and furniture, but I did get a shoe-fly pie, so I was happy!!! It's a molasses pie, vaguely like gingerbread and vaguely like pecan pie without the pecans, for those unfortunate enough not to have tried it. It's Amish/Pennsylvania Dutch, and I don't get it often now that I live in Ohio. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 4 09:25:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA11758 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 09:25:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g54DJ9C04119; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 07:19:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g54DJ1x29985; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 07:19:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g54DIrx29938 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 07:18:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pool-63.50.74.87.rlgh.grid.net ([63.50.74.87] helo=faucet.net) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17FED3-0001gV-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 04 Jun 2002 06:18:49 -0700 Message-ID: <3CFCCC00.A93290CE@faucet.net> From: Melanie Schuessler X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finding feathers? References: <200205290800.g4T802e29792@net.indra.com> <3CF52DD0.4214D9CD@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 08:17:38 -0500 Status: RO Liz / Cozit wrote: > > Does anyone know where I might be able to obtain relatively plain (but not tiny) feathers? Like duck or goose? > > Either over the web, or anywhere between the Philadelphia and DC areas? Go here: http://www.rainbowfeatherco.com/index.html Click on "feathers" to see pictures of different kinds of feathers. You can get small packets of feathers of any type for $1.25 (click on "packages"). I assume you can pick the color, but I'm not sure what colors are available. Happy shopping! Melanie Schuessler _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 4 10:54:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA12003 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 10:54:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g54El4C10089; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 08:47:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g54El2x01885; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 08:47:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d02.mx.aol.com (imo-d02.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g54EkIx01547 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 08:46:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.72.1d556bb4 (4247) for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 10:46:08 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <72.1d556bb4.2a2e2cb0@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1760's Corset help? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_72.1d556bb4.2a2e2cb0_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10568 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 10:46:08 EDT Status: RO --part1_72.1d556bb4.2a2e2cb0_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There's a quite useful 1770s corset pattern in Nora Waugh's "Corset & Crinolines". Yes, it's actually 10 years into the future for your project but the pattern is so basic I think it's perfectly suitable for 1760s. It is an easy pattern to understand and fool around with. IOW....it's a great start. Make up a mock up in muslin, "half boned" [as opposed to solidly boned....the pattern in the book is "half boned"]. Finish up the backs and put in grommets so you can lace it up but give yourself 2" seam allowances at the sides and CF. Tack it together with the seam allowances on the outside, put it on someone and start adjusting to see what results you get. Try not to fool with the back....keep it narrow. The corset should bring the shoulder blades closer together, bowing out the front. You'll note some horizontal bones in the pattern. Ignore them for the body of the corset but make them their own little casement that you can tack to the inside later if you want. All this will help you understand what the corset is trying to do. This is how we did it in school. After you're confident and you got things looking the way you want, then make it up in you real fabric. Jean or twill is good but so is linen and cotton. You can use a fancy chintz as an outer fabric if you want a pretty corset. We boned the fronts with steel boning and the backs and tabs with Riglene. Binding the tabs at the bottom can be a bitch [do it before it's boned] If you're gonna make a real fancy gown, solidly bone the corset. Jean Hunnisett's 1st volume of "Period Costumes for Stage and Screen" has a more complicated corset but it also has instructions and tips for making up and fitting. You may want to check it out since you are doing costumes. And please....don't use the term "Watteau gown". I HATE that. Watteau painted many types of gowns and a lot are fantasy clothes. The gowns he indeed paints a lot of, with the flowing pleats at the back, is properly referred to as a robe a la Francaise or a sack gown....as opposed to a robe a l'Anglaise, where the pleats are sewn down to the lining. Have fun! --part1_72.1d556bb4.2a2e2cb0_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There's a quite useful 1770s corset pattern in Nora Waugh's "Corset & Crinolines". Yes, it's actually 10 years into the future for your project but the pattern is so basic I think it's perfectly suitable for 1760s. It is an easy pattern to understand and fool around with. IOW....it's a great start. Make up a mock up in muslin, "half boned" [as opposed to solidly boned....the pattern in the book is "half boned"]. Finish up the backs and put in grommets so you can lace it up but give yourself 2" seam allowances at the sides and CF. Tack it together with the seam allowances on the outside, put it on someone and start adjusting to see what results you get. Try not to fool with the back....keep it narrow. The corset should bring the shoulder blades closer together, bowing out the front.

You'll note some horizontal bones in the pattern. Ignore them for the body of the corset but make them their own little casement that you can tack to the inside later if you want.

All this will help you understand what the corset is trying to do.

This is how we did it in school.

After you're confident and you got things looking the way you want, then make it up in you real fabric. Jean or twill is good but so is linen and cotton. You can use a fancy chintz as an outer fabric if you want a pretty corset. We boned the fronts with steel boning and the backs and tabs with Riglene. Binding the tabs at the bottom can be a bitch [do it before it's boned]

If you're gonna make a real fancy gown, solidly bone the corset.

Jean Hunnisett's 1st volume of "Period Costumes for Stage and Screen" has a more complicated corset but it also has instructions and tips for making up and fitting. You may want to check it out since you are doing costumes.

And please....don't use the term "Watteau gown". I HATE that. Watteau painted many types of gowns and a lot are fantasy clothes. The gowns he indeed paints a lot of, with the flowing pleats at the back, is properly referred to as a robe a la Francaise or a sack gown....as opposed to a robe a l'Anglaise, where the pleats are sewn down to the lining.

Have fun! --part1_72.1d556bb4.2a2e2cb0_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 4 11:45:15 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA12268 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 11:45:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g54Fc7C15091; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 09:38:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g54Fc6x27860; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 09:38:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g54Fb5x27201 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 09:37:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g54Fb4JJ002282 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 11:37:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1760's Corset help? In-Reply-To: <72.1d556bb4.2a2e2cb0@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 11:37:04 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I've gotten good results using Drea's Elizabethan Corset Pattern generator http://www.dnaco.net/~aleed/corsets/custompat/ then modifying the results to make an 18th c. corset: http://www47.pair.com/lindo/Stays/stays.htm I'm also working on a booklet that will describe this process in greater detail (with Drea's permission to use her corset drafting instructions). I'm hoping it'll be ready for publication in the next six months or sooner. Cheers, Mara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 4 13:57:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12921 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 13:57:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g54Ho9C00563; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 11:50:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g54Ho3x19479; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 11:50:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web11501.mail.yahoo.com (web11501.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.46]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g54Hnlx19272 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 11:49:48 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020604174946.10672.qmail@web11501.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [192.54.226.52] by web11501.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 04 Jun 2002 10:49:46 PDT From: Megan Irvine Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1760's Corset help? To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 10:49:46 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO --- Kevin & Mara Riley wrote: > I'm also working on a booklet that will describe this process in > greater > detail (with Drea's permission to use her corset drafting > instructions). > I'm hoping it'll be ready for publication in the next six months or > sooner. This would be wonderful! I haven't yet found a pattern for 18th c. corset that I really like, but I love Drea's corset pattern generation method. It would be great to see an adaptation of this for 18th c. mirv ===== Megan Irvine My Web log: http://darkthreads.blogspot.com My eBay storefront: http://www.ebaystores.com/darkthreadsdesigns "No ship will ever take you away from yourself."--Constantine Cavafy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 4 13:59:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12928 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 13:59:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g54Hq9C00781; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 11:52:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g54Hq9x21051; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 11:52:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g54Hpqx20815 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 11:51:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dnyeaqvf (r13p133.directcon.net [209.233.107.133]) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id g54Hoe3O009275; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 10:50:41 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020604100746.007e8430@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com, , From: Margo Anderson Subject: [h-cost] Costume Interns In-Reply-To: References: <3CF6A0FC.9E8BA794@2xtreme.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 10:07:46 -0700 Status: RO My son's teacher has a teenage daughter who wants to go to fashion school, and who is interested in being an intern in my pattern business. Does anyone out there who has had an intern, or been one, have any advice for me? She understands that I can't pay her, and she'd be working for experience, and for a letter of recommendation to fashion school. I understand that three weeks of stuffing envelopes and picking up pins is not what she's interested in, and that I need to give her some interesting projects that will let her learn and have fun. Is there anything else I should keep in mind? Margo "One Tough Costumer" See the Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 4 14:01:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA12947 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 14:01:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g54Ht3C01138; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 11:55:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g54Ht2x23294; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 11:55:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g54Hs5x22585 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 11:54:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g54Hs4JJ020131 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 13:54:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1760's Corset help? In-Reply-To: <20020604174946.10672.qmail@web11501.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 13:54:04 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO On Tue, 4 Jun 2002, Megan Irvine wrote: > This would be wonderful! I haven't yet found a pattern for 18th c. > corset that I really like, but I love Drea's corset pattern > generation method. It would be great to see an adaptation of this for > 18th c. > > mirv Thanks! Well, I'm about halfway done with the text -- have the nuts and bolts down on paper, but need to go back and 'tweak' it. I sent it to a friend who is a 'newbie' at staymaking, and she pointed out a whole bunch of stuff that I forgot to include because it's so obvious to me . Will certainly send out an announcement when it _does_ go to press! Cheers, Mara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 4 14:10:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA12975 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 14:10:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g54I43C02288; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 12:04:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g54I42x00371; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 12:04:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g54I35x29526 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 12:03:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) id g54I4jd71064 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 11:04:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200206041804.g54I4jd71064@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Interns In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020604100746.007e8430@pop.directcon.net> "from Margo Anderson at Jun 4, 2002 10:07:46 am" To: h-costume@indra.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL82 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 11:04:45 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO yeah -- keep in mind that picking up pins and stuffing envelopes IS part of the job, too, and have her do that for the same percentage of time that you might be. :) .heather. > My son's teacher has a teenage daughter who wants to go to fashion school, > and who is interested in being an intern in my pattern business. Does > anyone out there who has had an intern, or been one, have any advice for me? > > She understands that I can't pay her, and she'd be working for experience, > and for a letter of recommendation to fashion school. I understand that > three weeks of stuffing envelopes and picking up pins is not what she's > interested in, and that I need to give her some interesting projects that > will let her learn and have fun. Is there anything else I should keep in > mind? > > Margo > "One Tough Costumer" > > > See the Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 4 14:11:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA12979 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 14:11:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g54I52C02381; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 12:05:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g54I52x01051; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 12:05:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web11502.mail.yahoo.com (web11502.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.47]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g54I4Ax00482 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 12:04:11 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020604180347.52714.qmail@web11502.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [192.54.226.52] by web11502.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 04 Jun 2002 11:03:47 PDT From: Megan Irvine To: al-jisr , h-cost MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Slightly OT, non-period but still useful new choli pattern Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 11:03:47 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO Sorry for the cross-posting, but I think people on both lists might be interested. I have finally printed my backlacing stretch choli pattern and it is available via my eBay store. I'm just so proud of myself. I tried to do a really professional job on this one. Here is a link to the front cover page of the pattern with all the details: http://www.geocities.com/mirv_sewing/choli-patt-frontpage.pdf Of course, this style is not "historical" but my eBay customers and belly dance classmates love this top for practice. I'm working on other styles too, with a focus on "stuff I haven't seen anywhere else." Maybe someday, I will have a pre-17th c. choli pattern that is based on historical fact, but I am still working on that. mirv, a.k.a. darkthreads ===== Megan Irvine My Web log: http://darkthreads.blogspot.com My eBay storefront: http://www.ebaystores.com/darkthreadsdesigns "No ship will ever take you away from yourself."--Constantine Cavafy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 4 14:21:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA13007 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 14:21:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g54IE4C03337; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 12:14:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g54IE2x06267; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 12:14:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m10.mx.aol.com (imo-m10.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.165]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g54IDSx05937 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 12:13:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo-m10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.69.2805a061 (30950) for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 14:13:04 -0400 (EDT) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Message-ID: <69.2805a061.2a2e5d30@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Interns To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_69.2805a061.2a2e5d30_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10512 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 14:13:04 EDT Status: RO --part1_69.2805a061.2a2e5d30_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Margo It sounds like you are on the right track. When using volunteer interns at the theatre, I try to come up with projects that they will find interesting, but which actually need doing rather than busy work that is unproductive to me. I've found a nice hybrid of garment finishing (I guess that would equate to envelope stuffing, as it is the finishing touch of a project) and minimal construction of designs where the intern/volunteer can add some design elements (their own touch, so to speak) work well for keeping interest. Hands on experience is invaluable, and an excellent way for this young woman to get started. angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes Theatrical Costume Design www.cabbagerosecostumes.com "All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players. They have their exits and their entrances; and one man in his time plays many parts." W. Shakespeare In a message dated 6/4/2002 10:52:31 AM Pacific Daylight Time, margo@margospatterns.com writes: > My son's teacher has a teenage daughter who wants to go to fashion school, > and who is interested in being an intern in my pattern business. Does > anyone out there who has had an intern, or been one, have any advice for > me? > > She understands that I can't pay her, and she'd be working for experience, > and for a letter of recommendation to fashion school. I understand that > three weeks of stuffing envelopes and picking up pins is not what she's > interested in, and that I need to give her some interesting projects that > will let her learn and have fun. Is there anything else I should keep in > mind? > > Margo > "One Tough Costumer" > > --part1_69.2805a061.2a2e5d30_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Margo

It sounds like you are on the right track.  When using volunteer interns at the theatre, I try to come up with projects that they will find interesting, but which actually need doing rather than busy work that is unproductive to me.  I've found a nice hybrid of garment finishing (I guess that would equate to envelope stuffing, as it is the finishing touch of a project) and minimal construction of designs where the intern/volunteer can add some design elements (their own touch, so to speak) work well for keeping interest.  Hands on experience is invaluable, and an excellent way for this young woman to get started.

angela
+++++
Angela F. Lazear
Cabbage Rose Costumes
Theatrical Costume Design
www.cabbagerosecostumes.com
"All the world's a stage,
and all the men and women merely players.
They have their exits and their entrances;
and one man in his time plays many parts."
W. Shakespeare

In a message dated 6/4/2002 10:52:31 AM Pacific Daylight Time, margo@margospatterns.com writes:


My son's teacher has a teenage daughter who wants to go to fashion school,
and who is interested in being an intern in my pattern business. Does
anyone out there who has had an intern, or been one, have any advice for me?

She understands that I can't pay her, and she'd be working for experience,
and for a letter of recommendation to fashion school. I understand that
three weeks of stuffing envelopes and picking up pins is not what she's
interested in, and that I need to give her some interesting projects that
will let her learn and have fun.  Is there anything else I should keep in
mind?

Margo
"One Tough Costumer"



 --part1_69.2805a061.2a2e5d30_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 4 14:23:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA13013 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 14:22:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g54IG3C03560; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 12:16:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g54IG2x07444; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 12:16:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g54IFLx07017 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 12:15:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.191.7d79316 (30950) for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 14:15:13 -0400 (EDT) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Message-ID: <191.7d79316.2a2e5db0@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] thermoplastic/Wonderflex To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_191.7d79316.2a2e5db0_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10512 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 14:15:12 EDT Status: RO --part1_191.7d79316.2a2e5db0_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Which one? Wonderflex or Thermoplastic. I haven't yet called the store to price it out, but I've seen it and worked with it's little brother Friendly Plastic for years. How can I help? angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes Theatrical Costume Design www.cabbagerosecostumes.com "If we shadows have offended, think but this, and all is mended, That you have but slumbered here, while these visions did appear." W. Shakespeare In a message dated 6/3/2002 10:21:47 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ladyanne@quik.com writes: > I would LOVE to have more info about this product. Thanks, Anne > > >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On >> Behalf Of MzScahlett@aol.com >> Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 1:12 PM >> To: h-costume@indra.com >> Subject: Re: [h-cost] hat help >> >> >> In a message dated 6/2/2002 12:50:53 PM Pacific Daylight Time, >> betsy@softwareinnovation.com writes: >> >> >> >>> I like the heat-settable suggestion though, where is that stuff to be >>> found? >>> (my $.02) Betsy >> >> Wonderflex can be purchased in sheets from Richard the Thread (don't have >> number handy?) or Dazian 1-877-432-9426. I can find out about >> thermoplastic if anyone wishes. >> >> angela >> +++++ >> Angela F. Lazear >> Cabbage Rose Costumes >> Theatrical Costume Design >> www.cabbagerosecostumes.com >> "If we shadows have offended, think but this, >> and all is mended, >> That you have but slumbered here, >> while these visions did appear." >> W. Shakespeare > > > > --part1_191.7d79316.2a2e5db0_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Which one? Wonderflex or Thermoplastic. I haven't yet called the store to price it out, but I've seen it and worked with it's little brother Friendly Plastic for years.  How can I help?

angela
+++++
Angela F. Lazear
Cabbage Rose Costumes
Theatrical Costume Design
www.cabbagerosecostumes.com
"If we shadows have offended, think but this,
and all is mended,
That you have but slumbered here,
while these visions did appear."
W. Shakespeare

In a message dated 6/3/2002 10:21:47 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ladyanne@quik.com writes:


I would LOVE to have more info about this product.  Thanks, Anne


-----Original Message-----
From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of MzScahlett@aol.com
Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 1:12 PM
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] hat help


In a message dated 6/2/2002 12:50:53 PM Pacific Daylight Time, betsy@softwareinnovation.com writes:


I like the heat-settable suggestion though, where is that stuff to be found?
(my $.02) Betsy


Wonderflex can be purchased in sheets from Richard the Thread (don't have number handy?) or Dazian 1-877-432-9426.  I can find out about thermoplastic if anyone wishes.

angela
+++++
Angela F. Lazear
Cabbage Rose Costumes
Theatrical Costume Design
www.cabbagerosecostumes.com
"If we shadows have offended, think but this,
and all is mended,
That you have but slumbered here,
while these visions did appear."
W. Shakespeare



--part1_191.7d79316.2a2e5db0_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 4 14:32:00 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA13039 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 14:31:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g54IP6C04529; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 12:25:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g54IP3x12760; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 12:25:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g54IOCx12275 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 12:24:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.34.108]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GX700LU81SAHG@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 04 Jun 2002 11:24:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1760's Corset help? In-reply-to: <72.1d556bb4.2a2e2cb0@aol.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020604111648.00c7b600@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 11:21:29 -0700 Status: RO >There's a quite useful 1770s corset pattern in Nora Waugh's "Corset & >Crinolines". Yes, it's actually 10 years into the future for your project >but the pattern is so basic I think it's perfectly suitable for 1760s. It >is an easy pattern to understand and fool around with. IOW....it's a great >start. Make up a mock up in muslin, "half boned" [as opposed to solidly >boned....the pattern in the book is "half boned"]. Finish up the backs and >put in grommets so you can lace it up but give yourself 2" seam allowances >at the sides and CF. Tack it together with the seam allowances on the >outside, put it on someone and start adjusting to see what results you >get. Try not to fool with the back....keep it narrow. The corset should >bring the shoulder blades closer together, bowing out the front. > >You'll note some horizontal bones in the pattern. Ignore them for the body >of the corset but make them their own little casement that you can tack to >the inside later if you want. Yes Nora Waugh. I made this one, and don't omit the horizontal bones - they're necessary. And please....don't use the term "Watteau gown". I HATE that. 'Watteau gown' or 'Watteau pleats' are terms from the late 1800's-early 1900's, and are correct to that period, but only to that period. In Watteau's time these gowns were, indeed, called 'sack back' or 'robe a la Francaise'. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 4 17:05:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA21640 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 17:05:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g54Kw5C20669; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 14:58:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g54Kw3x14552; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 14:58:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g54KvUx14145 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 14:57:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id AA353262027C; Tue, 04 Jun 2002 15:59:33 -0500 Message-ID: <004101c20c09$f9d01d80$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <3CF6A0FC.9E8BA794@2xtreme.net> <3.0.6.32.20020604100746.007e8430@pop.directcon.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Interns X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 16:54:10 -0400 Status: RO Margo, Write Jennie Chancey. She has an intern right now learning pattern drafting. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 4 18:25:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA21945 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 18:25:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g54MI8C28510; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 16:18:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g54MI4x00187; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 16:18:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.ala.net (mail.ala.net [204.251.239.243]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g54MHqx29938 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 16:17:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 28324 invoked by uid 0); 4 Jun 2002 22:17:34 -0000 Received: from nas2-206-107-27-91.dlv.ala.net (HELO jchancey) (206.107.27.91) by mail.ala.net with SMTP; 4 Jun 2002 22:17:34 -0000 Message-ID: <005c01c20c04$5918df80$7b66fea9@jchancey> From: "Jennie Chancey" To: References: <150.ec75a4b.2a2d4cee@aol.com> <011601c20b54$f6de08e0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gloves and hat etiquette MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 17:13:52 -0300 Status: RO Can't resist a hat thread.... I have a whole closet filled to the brim (pun intended!) with hats of all styles. I collect vintage hats and vintage-esque modern hats. I wear a hat almost every time I go out of the house. It is not just a fashion statement, either. It is a real necessity down here in South Alabama with the blazing sun and extreme temperatures. Hats are a blessing! I have very fair skin and burn easily, so I really do need 'em. I love the broad-brimmed ones especially and have had a lot of success finding them of late. My husband and I also both like to "dress" when traveling by airplane or train. He wears a three-piece (very 1930s-looking) suit with hat, and I always wear a hat and gloves. People turn to stare open-mouthed sometimes as we walk by. I guess in the old days it was taken for granted that you dressed to travel, but today we must look a bit like a costume show in transit. LOL! But it sure is fun, and we love the treatment we get from others -- they are invariably super-polite and extra-quick to help me with baggage or whatever. What fun! Cheers, Jennie - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Sense and Sensibility Clothing and Patterns http://www.sensibility.com winsome clothing with an old-fashioned appeal _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 4 19:23:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA22128 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 19:23:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g54NH4C03686; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 17:17:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g54NH3x00399; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 17:17:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m06.mx.aol.com (imo-m06.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.161]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g54NG2x29787 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 17:16:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Azelana@aol.com by imo-m06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 7.123.11a57d4d (3960) for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 19:15:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Azelana@aol.com Message-ID: <123.11a57d4d.2a2ea42a@aol.com> To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 124 Subject: [h-cost] Another virus?? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 19:15:54 EDT Status: RO Hey guys, I got an e-mail that said "h-costume digest, Vol 1 #972 - 11 msgs" and the sender addy was the usual, but it had an attachment. Since the list normally does not have attachments, I deleted it rather than open it. Anybody know if that was a virus or some new coding weirdness from the list server? --Gillian _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 4 19:42:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA22177 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 19:42:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g54Na3C05191; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 17:36:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g54Na2x08656; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 17:36:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) id g54NZR208420 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 17:35:27 -0600 (MDT) From: Elizabeth Lear To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another virus?? Message-ID: <20020604173525.C21757@net.indra.com> References: <123.11a57d4d.2a2ea42a@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <123.11a57d4d.2a2ea42a@aol.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 17:35:26 -0600 Status: RO You're correct - the list doesn't do attachments, so delete before reading it! ...eliz _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 4 20:39:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA22416 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 20:39:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g550X3C08721; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 18:33:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g550X1x01121; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 18:33:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g550WMx00883 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 18:32:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04331 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 19:54:56 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another virus?? In-Reply-To: <123.11a57d4d.2a2ea42a@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 19:54:56 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Tue, 4 Jun 2002 Azelana@aol.com wrote: > I got an e-mail that said "h-costume digest, Vol 1 #972 - 11 msgs" and > the sender addy was the usual, but it had an attachment. Since the > list normally does not have attachments, I deleted it rather than open > it. Anybody know if that was a virus or some new coding weirdness > from the list server? Sounds like Klez. It grabs both a recipient name and a sender's name from an infected computer's addressbook, so when it sends itself, the message looks as though it came from another source. That makes it hard to track down the infected computer, because that person's name doesn't show up as sender. The innocent party listed as sender gets the blame instead. Another list I'm on has had this problem -- a listmember who has the list name in his addressbook has gotten infected, and the virus has been using the list name as the fake sender on virus mailings. So, this means someone who has h-cost *and* you in his/her addressbook is infected. Anyone reading this who has both the list address and Azelana's in their addressbook should do a virus scan with updated software. (A few weeks ago I got an annoyed mailing from someone complaining about my sending them a virus. I use UNIX, so it didn't come from me! It came from someone who had both my name and hers in his/her addressbook.) --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 4 20:50:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA22458 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 20:50:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g550hKC09182; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 18:43:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g550hJx04464; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 18:43:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m08.mx.aol.com (imo-m08.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.163]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g550gLx04087 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 18:42:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.95.1d76a744 (4461) for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 20:42:12 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <95.1d76a744.2a2eb863@aol.com> To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_95.1d76a744.2a2eb863_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10568 Subject: [h-cost] Now....what's that stuff called again? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 20:42:11 EDT Status: RO --part1_95.1d76a744.2a2eb863_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings, Y'know those beautiful scarves and stoles popular in the 1920s made of a cotton net with flat silver [as in real silver] tape worked into it in geometric patterns. I comes from the Middle East...Egypt I think. Makes a very glittery, sheer but very heavy stole..... Anyway, what is that stuff called? I cannot remember for the life of me! Something that begins with an "A". Asiut? Asuite? Someone help my feeble brain! --part1_95.1d76a744.2a2eb863_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings,

Y'know those beautiful scarves and stoles popular in the 1920s made of a cotton net with flat silver [as in real silver] tape worked into it in geometric patterns. I comes from the Middle East...Egypt I think. Makes a very glittery, sheer but very heavy stole.....

Anyway, what is that stuff called? I cannot remember for the life of me! Something that begins with an "A". Asiut? Asuite? Someone help my feeble brain! --part1_95.1d76a744.2a2eb863_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 4 21:13:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA22552 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 21:13:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g55174C10518; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 19:07:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g55173x12436; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 19:07:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r05.mx.aol.com (imo-r05.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.101]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5516Wx12235 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 19:06:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo-r05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.1a1.3438e50 (4560) for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 21:06:18 -0400 (EDT) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Message-ID: <1a1.3438e50.2a2ebe0a@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Now....what's that stuff called again? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_1a1.3438e50.2a2ebe0a_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10509 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 21:06:18 EDT Status: RO --part1_1a1.3438e50.2a2ebe0a_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/4/2002 5:43:53 PM Pacific Daylight Time, AlbertCat@aol.com writes: > Greetings, > > Y'know those beautiful scarves and stoles popular in the 1920s made of a > cotton net with flat silver [as in real silver] tape worked into it in > geometric patterns. I comes from the Middle East...Egypt I think. Makes a > very glittery, sheer but very heavy stole..... > > Anyway, what is that stuff called? I cannot remember for the life of me! > Something that begins with an "A". Asiut? Asuite? Someone help my feeble > brain! Yes, that's what it's called. Spelling varies. Assuit is the one I've seen most. angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com Theatrical Costume Design "See! How she leans her cheek upon her hand, O! That I were a glove upon that hand, That I might touch that cheek." Romeo & Juliet, II, ii - W. Shakespeare --part1_1a1.3438e50.2a2ebe0a_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/4/2002 5:43:53 PM Pacific Daylight Time, AlbertCat@aol.com writes:


Greetings,

Y'know those beautiful scarves and stoles popular in the 1920s made of a cotton net with flat silver [as in real silver] tape worked into it in geometric patterns. I comes from the Middle East...Egypt I think. Makes a very glittery, sheer but very heavy stole.....

Anyway, what is that stuff called? I cannot remember for the life of me! Something that begins with an "A". Asiut? Asuite? Someone help my feeble brain!


Yes, that's what it's called. Spelling varies. Assuit is the one I've seen most.

angela
+++++
Angela F. Lazear
Cabbage Rose Costumes
http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com
Theatrical Costume Design

"See! How she leans her cheek upon her hand,
O! That I were a glove upon that hand,
That I might touch that cheek."
Romeo & Juliet, II, ii - W. Shakespeare
 --part1_1a1.3438e50.2a2ebe0a_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 4 22:18:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA22723 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 22:18:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g552C3C13776; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 20:12:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g552C2x03301; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 20:12:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pd2mo1so.prod.shaw.ca (h24-71-223-10.cg.shawcable.net [24.71.223.10]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g552BVx03169 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 20:11:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pd4mr3so.prod.shaw.ca (pd4mr3so-qfe3.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.214]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.8 (built May 12 2002)) with ESMTP id <0GX700H1KNEY09@l-daemon> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 04 Jun 2002 20:11:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pn2ml6so.prod.shaw.ca (pn2ml6so-qfe0.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.121.150]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.6 (built Apr 26 2002)) with ESMTP id <0GX700HK3NF0X8@l-daemon> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 04 Jun 2002 20:11:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shaw.ca (h24-83-104-177.vf.shawcable.net [24.83.104.177]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.8 (built May 12 2002)) with ESMTP id <0GX7006FONEZSK@l-daemon> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 04 Jun 2002 20:11:24 -0600 (MDT) From: Shalazar Subject: Re: [h-cost] Now....what's that stuff called again? To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <3CFD77CD.59010333@shaw.ca> Organization: Shalazar Creations MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en]C-CCK-MCD telus.net_v5.0.1 (Win98; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en References: <95.1d76a744.2a2eb863@aol.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: shalazar@shaw.ca List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 19:30:38 -0700 Status: RO It's called assuit. if you want to see a really good example of it go to http://www.hahbiru.com/john_and_ritah.html ( my favourite drooling site for this stuff) There is also good information at http://liquidsilverdesigns.com/ It is not actually real silver though many people think it is. its just base metal. It makes wonderful dresses for dancing in. I have several pieces which were brought back from the Boer War . If the patterns are all geometric it was meant for domestic use,. But if it has animal or humam depictions mnixed in, it was intended for the 'foreign market' -- "Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so." - Douglas Adams (1952-2001) English novelist "Throughout history, it has been the inaction of those who could have acted; the indifference of those who should have known better; the silence of the voice of justice when it mattered most; that has made it possible for evil to triumph." ` -Haile Selassie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 4 22:43:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA22797 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 22:43:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g552aBC15182; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 20:36:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g552aAx10643; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 20:36:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m09.mx.aol.com (imo-m09.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.164]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g552ZWx10435 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 20:35:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DELTAYLOR@aol.com by imo-m09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.158.ed915f4 (25511) for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 22:35:05 -0400 (EDT) From: DELTAYLOR@aol.com Message-ID: <158.ed915f4.2a2ed2d9@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gloves and hat etiquette To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_158.ed915f4.2a2ed2d9_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10509 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 22:35:05 EDT Status: RO --part1_158.ed915f4.2a2ed2d9_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/3/2002 11:12:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, audreybmorin2@hotmail.com writes: > I understand perfectly. I love hats, but I've just started wearing some, > Hooray for Hats! I started wearing hats again at Church and enjoy them very much. I like the vintage ones but I haven't worn the light peach (orange) with the green ribbon trim one yet. Dianne in Dunlap --part1_158.ed915f4.2a2ed2d9_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/3/2002 11:12:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, audreybmorin2@hotmail.com writes:


I understand perfectly. I love hats, but I've just started wearing some,


Hooray for Hats!  I started wearing hats again at Church and enjoy them very much.  I like the vintage ones but I haven't worn the light peach (orange) with the green ribbon trim one yet.
Dianne in Dunlap --part1_158.ed915f4.2a2ed2d9_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 4 23:16:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA22879 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 23:16:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g553A5C16876; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 21:10:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g553A4x21553; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 21:10:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.62]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5539Cx21303 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 21:09:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 66-44-16-178.s1702.apx2.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com ([66.44.16.178] helo=oldwaylane.net) by smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #5) id 17FRAd-0005ae-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 04 Jun 2002 23:09:11 -0400 Message-ID: <3CFD81E6.7070502@oldwaylane.net> From: Judy Mitchell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:0.9.3) Gecko/20010801 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gloves and hat etiquette References: <158.ed915f4.2a2ed2d9@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: judymitch@oldwaylane.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 23:13:42 -0400 Status: RO No one's yet mentioned that along with the dates for wearing white, it also goes along with hatwear: felt hats and straw hats (at least for men). I think there's even a "felt hat day" for when you put away your straw hats at the end of summer and re-don your felt hats (or is it the other way around?). -Judy Mitchell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 5 00:13:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA23515 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 00:13:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5547AC19717; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 22:07:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g55479x09339; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 22:07:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from q4.quik.com (q4.quik.com [216.176.28.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5546Tx09129 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 22:06:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from downstairs (ip119.vb.quik.com [216.176.5.119]) by q4.quik.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g5546R5308382 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 21:06:27 -0700 From: "Anne Moeller" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] thermoplastic/Wonderflex Message-ID: <000601c20c47$1fc969a0$696dfea9@downstairs> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C20C25.98B7C9A0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <191.7d79316.2a2e5db0@aol.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 00:11:51 -0400 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C20C25.98B7C9A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Oh dear, I am not sure what the difference is. I thought they were basically the same stuff with different names. I know the principle behind Friendly Plastic but have never used it. Which would be best for head dresses? Thanks, Anne ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C20C25.98B7C9A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
Oh=20 dear, I am not sure what the difference is.  I thought they were = basically=20 the same stuff with different names.  I know the principle behind = Friendly=20 Plastic but have never used it.  Which would be best for head=20 dresses?  Thanks, Anne
3D"Compu-Zoo
 ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C20C25.98B7C9A0-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 5 00:22:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA23646 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 00:22:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g554GAC20152; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 22:16:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g554GAx12078; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 22:16:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.ala.net (mail.ala.net [204.251.239.243]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g554FAx11728 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 22:15:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 13585 invoked by uid 0); 5 Jun 2002 04:15:07 -0000 Received: from nas1-206-107-27-205.dlv.ala.net (HELO jchancey) (206.107.27.205) by mail.ala.net with SMTP; 5 Jun 2002 04:15:07 -0000 Message-ID: <000c01c20c36$2d410b80$7b66fea9@jchancey> From: "Jennie Chancey" To: References: <000b01c1f0c5$224c16c0$9da98218@duck> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [h-cost] My intern, etc. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 23:09:59 -0300 Status: RO I had to chuckle that this actually came up as a side topic on the list! I had no idea anyone really knew I was teaching an intern right now. I'll be happy to answer any questions anyone might have off-list. Just drop me a line. This is my "guinea pig" intern, since I've never had anyone actually come and stay with me for six weeks to study pattern drafting and costuming techniques. It has been a blast, and I'd highly recommend it! By the way, my current intern has a Regency ballgown she made while here up on eBay. If you'd like to see it, just go to http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1738391802 (if you can't get the URL to work, it's listed under my username, which is "chanceys"). She did a fantastic job (boast, boast....). Cheers, Jennie - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Sense and Sensibility Clothing and Patterns http://www.sensibility.com winsome clothing with an old-fashioned appeal _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 5 00:33:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA23685 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 00:33:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g554RBC20775; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 22:27:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g554RBx15331; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 22:27:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.61]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g554QUx15099 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 22:26:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 66-44-0-126.s126.apx1.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com ([66.44.0.126] helo=erols.com) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #5) id 17FSNR-0002Te-00; Wed, 05 Jun 2002 00:26:29 -0400 Message-ID: <3CFDBD69.6043D306@erols.com> From: "David S. Mallinak" Organization: Red Dragon Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com, "David S. Mallinak" References: <32.27b5f532.2a28f803@aol.com> <3CF831DE.42D93DAF@dandy.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Assistance in A Search Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: matchlck@erols.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 00:27:37 -0700 Status: RO leigh I have a favor to ask. I was packing for an event last week and could not find my ammo box (a dark green military ammunition box that I keep powder in at events). I have since then searched high and low in my house and car and still cannot find it. The last time I definatily know I it was at New Sweden. Would you please be so kind, the next time you are at or near the New Sweden Farmstead, to a absent-minded professor type (me) and look in the hay barn under the stairs to the loft and see if I was so absent-minded as to leave it there. Please let me know if you find or do not find the box. Let me aploagize for any inconvinence this request my cause you or Mike. Please let me know if you find the ammo box. Your humble and obediant servant, David S Mallinak _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 5 05:09:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA20508 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 05:09:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5592NC29983; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 03:02:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5592Jx07685; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 03:02:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.5]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g55916x07372 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 03:01:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from csv6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA25494.; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 10:00:17 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by csv6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 05 Jun 2002 10:00:03 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.1 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] American Patriotic Holidays Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g55916x07372 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 09:59:32 +0100 Status: RO (Catching up on mail after our extra long public holiday for the Queen's Golden Jubilee...) Thanks for all the replies on this topic. I must have misunderstood the sense of Penny's original posting (about wearing white). I thought Memorial Day must be an equivalent of our Remembrance Day because of the speeches made by Mr.Bush on his recent overseas tour. Actually it isn't a public holiday in the UK; ceremonies honouring the war dead take place on the nearest Sunday to Nov, 11th, though in recent years there has been a return to the custom of observing a minute's silence at 11 a.m. on the 11th itself. The poppies are one of those weeds that tend to come up on disturbed ground - they were a common sight in corn- (i.e. wheat) fields before herbicides - and so they grew around the trenches in WW1. Costume sidelight - the plot of one of Dorothy Sayers' detective novels hinges on the fact that in the '20s people didn't wear their poppies until Armistice Day itself, whereas nowadays we pin them on as soon as we buy them, any time from the beginning of November. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 5 07:27:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA20940 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 07:27:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g55BKaC03884; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 05:20:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g55BKSx09097; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 05:20:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g55BJ2x08776 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 05:19:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KIKKYG7J2800ATJZ@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 05 Jun 2002 12:21:45 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KIKJVTHNGG00BLCM@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 05 Jun 2002 11:50:24 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 05 Jun 2002 11:44:46 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 05 Jun 2002 11:43:59 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.76) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Wed, 05 Jun 2002 11:43:49 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Getting recognized (WAS: Lurking) In-reply-to: <200205311801.g4VI1mx21535@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <41903097CA0@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from Quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g55BJ2x08776 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 11:43:49 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO Cin wrote: > > The Spy's Guidebook doesn't tell > > you about "hiding in plain sight" and being so obvious no-one would > > suspect you. > > Teddy, I'm pretty sure George Smiley wears gray, not orange. I'm sure > it's in the book under "innocuous". > > (1) ref. "Smiley's People", "The Honorable Schoolboy", and all those > other books by John LeCarré. The Spy's guidebook doesn't cover that at all... I memorised it from cover to cover when I was eleven adn i don;t think the current edition (which I just gave to my godson for his sixth birthday) has included it either. Margo Anderson wrote: > Yes, I've had this happen, too. At the Renn Faire we recently > produced, one of the booth people needed scissors for something, > and was told to go look for Margo Anderson. Two other people nearby > exclaimed, "You mean THE Margo Anderson is here?" > > I call this condition being a "microcelebrity". Danielle, Teddy, > and I, among others, enjoy international fame (or is it > notoriety?) due to this list and others like it, but the actual > number of people who know of us is probably a few thousand or less. > Ah, well, if I'd wanted fame on a big scale I'd have stuck to my > teenage goal of being a rock star. I'm glad to have a name to put to it. It can be very nice - it's great to build up a wide-ranging network of contacts and friends through being known on lists like this and through other activities. Anyone else on the list had this happen? Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 5 07:53:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA21013 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 07:53:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g55BlHC04554; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 05:47:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g55BlGx15439; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 05:47:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from inje.iskon.hr (inje.iskon.hr [213.191.128.16]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g55Bkqx15333 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 05:46:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jkale.public.srce.hr (st01-116.dialin.iskon.hr [213.202.66.117]) by mail.iskon.hr (8.11.4/8.11.4/Iskon 8.11.3-1) with ESMTP id g55BknL07996 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 13:46:50 +0200 (MEST) Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.0.20020605135318.00a8cd00@jagor.srce.hr> X-Sender: jkale@jagor.srce.hr X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 To: h-costume@net.indra.com From: Jadran Kale Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g55Bkqx15333 Subject: [h-cost] news: sumptuary laws alive... Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 13:55:38 +0200 Status: RO ... in Bhutan: "Traditional Bhutanese costume, the Gho for men and the Kira for women, is compulsory. Those who wear anything else face a Ł2 ($3.30) fine, which amounts to three days' wages." http://news6.thdo.bbc.co.uk/low/english/country_profile/newsid_54000/54627.stm _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 5 07:56:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA21022 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 07:56:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g55BoJC04663; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 05:50:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g55BoIx16275; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 05:50:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g55BnLx15967 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 05:49:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KIKL8O6F4W00HD25@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 05 Jun 2002 12:52:27 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KIKL3JT9IC00BEYD@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 05 Jun 2002 12:24:52 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 05 Jun 2002 12:19:14 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 05 Jun 2002 12:18:56 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.76) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Wed, 05 Jun 2002 12:18:48 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] buttoning direction In-reply-to: <200206021806.g52I6dx07128@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <41998391EFC@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 12:18:48 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > Do those of you who wear left- and right-buttoned shirts have any > preference? Is it really any easier to do one over the other with > your dominant (or free) hand? Yes, it is confusing if you're > accustomed to one and suddenly have to deal with the other, but > that's just a question of habit. > > Does handedness really matter? I have no problem with either way around... my cousin, on th eother hand, has an awful time adapting when she wears mens shirts. A few yearsa go the only reasonably priced plain-white cotton shirts we could find for her to wear to work were mens ones and, since she has specific clothes that she wears only for work (because she can't bear tro wear anything she *likes* for something as terrible as Work) we got them out of desperation. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 5 08:14:00 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA21094 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 08:14:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g55C7OC05266; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 06:07:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g55C7Nx20689; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 06:07:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mrburns.nildram.co.uk (mrburns.nildram.co.uk [195.112.0.57]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g55C64x20371 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 06:06:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (bart.nildram.co.uk [195.112.4.97]) by mrburns.nildram.co.uk (Postfix) with SMTP id BD44D1E1D27; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 13:06:00 +0100 (BST) To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Getting recognized (WAS: Lurking) From: Jane Williams Cc: Jane Williams X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-Mailer: NOCC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20020605120600.BD44D1E1D27@mrburns.nildram.co.uk> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: Jane Williams List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 13:06:00 BST Status: RO Teddy wrote : > > I call this condition being a "microcelebrity". Danielle, Teddy, > > and I, among others, enjoy international fame (or is it > > notoriety?) due to this list and others like it, but the actual > > number of people who know of us is probably a few thousand or less. > I'm glad to have a name to put to it. > > It can be very nice - it's great to build up a wide-ranging network of > contacts and friends through being known on lists like this and > through other activities. > > Anyone else on the list had this happen? In a totally different context, yes. I used to be very active in fantasy roleplaying: the Gloranthan universe in particular. Chatted on the lists, had articles published in fanzines, that sort of thing. Then I went to my first ever rolelaying convention, all shy and ready to hide in corners, to be met with people asking if I'm "the" Jane Williams, people wanting my autograph on things I'd written, and people asking me to appear on panels. Eek! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 5 09:14:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA21960 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 09:14:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g55D8MC07621; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 07:08:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g55D8Lx09125; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 07:08:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r08.mx.aol.com (imo-r08.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.104]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g55D78x08677 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 07:07:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.124.11bd400d (4595) for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 09:06:59 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <124.11bd400d.2a2f66f2@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Now....what's that stuff called again? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_124.11bd400d.2a2f66f2_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10568 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 09:06:58 EDT Status: RO --part1_124.11bd400d.2a2f66f2_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/4/2002 10:12:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, shalazar@shaw.ca writes: > http://www.hahbiru.com/john_and_ritah.html ( my favourite drooling > site for this stuff) > Are you drooling over the assuit work....or John? The other site was great. Fascinating. I just found a white stole of this stuff in the bottom of a box I haven't opened since I moved 8 years ago. It's actually a box that belonged to my old roommate, who died 9 years ago. So I guess it's mine now! --part1_124.11bd400d.2a2f66f2_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/4/2002 10:12:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, shalazar@shaw.ca writes:


http://www.hahbiru.com/john_and_ritah.html  ( my favourite drooling
site for this stuff)


Are you drooling over the assuit work....or John?

The other site was great. Fascinating. I just found a white stole of this stuff in the bottom of a box I haven't opened since I moved 8 years ago. It's actually a box that belonged to my old roommate, who died 9 years ago. So I guess it's mine now! --part1_124.11bd400d.2a2f66f2_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 5 10:56:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA26433 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 10:56:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g55Eo4C14238; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 08:50:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g55Eo3x22486; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 08:50:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pd5mo2so.prod.shaw.ca (h24-71-223-10.cg.shawcable.net [24.71.223.10]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g55EmRx21583 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 08:48:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pd5mr2so.prod.shaw.ca (pd5mr2so-qfe3.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.233]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.8 (built May 12 2002)) with ESMTP id <0GX800A22MGIAB@l-daemon> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 05 Jun 2002 08:48:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pn2ml6so.prod.shaw.ca (pn2ml6so-qfe0.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.121.150]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.8 (built May 12 2002)) with ESMTP id <0GX800F86MGISY@l-daemon> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 05 Jun 2002 08:48:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shaw.ca (h24-83-104-177.vf.shawcable.net [24.83.104.177]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.8 (built May 12 2002)) with ESMTP id <0GX800IBKMGJFY@l-daemon> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 05 Jun 2002 08:48:20 -0600 (MDT) From: Shalazar Subject: Re: [h-cost] Now....what's that stuff called again? To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <3CFE2785.BAD75072@shaw.ca> Organization: Shalazar Creations MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en]C-CCK-MCD telus.net_v5.0.1 (Win98; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en References: <124.11bd400d.2a2f66f2@aol.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: shalazar@shaw.ca List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 08:00:22 -0700 Status: RO Both.. (grin) He is a thoroughly nice person, and he is aging very well too!! Those are his own eyes not contacts... But given the chose I will take the assuit he's wearing. Better yet the stuff he wore up here in Vancouver it was completely covered with metal. Take care of the piece you found its worth big bucks especially if its older with the fine mesh and in good condition. Bit of trivia .... Arnie wore assuit in Conan. -- "Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so." - Douglas Adams (1952-2001) English novelist "Throughout history, it has been the inaction of those who could have acted; the indifference of those who should have known better; the silence of the voice of justice when it mattered most; that has made it possible for evil to triumph." ` -Haile Selassie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 5 10:59:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA26446 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 10:59:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g55EnaC14159; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 08:49:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g55EnZx22261; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 08:49:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r01.mx.aol.com (imo-r01.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.97]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g55Emgx21728 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 08:48:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LalahTT@aol.com by imo-r01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.1a6.33e6250 (16934) for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 10:48:35 -0400 (EDT) From: LalahTT@aol.com Message-ID: <1a6.33e6250.2a2f7ec3@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] news: sumptuary laws alive... To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_1a6.33e6250.2a2f7ec3_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10568 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 10:48:35 EDT Status: RO --part1_1a6.33e6250.2a2f7ec3_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The really sad part is that their location makes them likely to be wiped out if India and Pakistan get in a nuclear war. Lalah Never Give up, Never Surrender, - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Looking for a great gift? Check out Beary Classy Bears at http://hometown.aol.com/bearyclassybears/myhomepage/sale.html --part1_1a6.33e6250.2a2f7ec3_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit      The really sad part is that their location makes them likely to be wiped out if India and Pakistan get in a nuclear war.

Lalah
Never Give up, Never Surrender,
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Looking for a great gift?  Check out Beary Classy Bears at
http://hometown.aol.com/bearyclassybears/myhomepage/sale.html

--part1_1a6.33e6250.2a2f7ec3_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 5 11:15:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA30528 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 11:15:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g55F8dC15935; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 09:08:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g55F8bx03069; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 09:08:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.wiscmail.wisc.edu (dancer.doit.wisc.edu [144.92.197.146]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g55F75x02187 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 09:07:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [128.104.90.215] by smtp2.doit.wisc.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.5 (built Apr 17 2002)) with ESMTP id <0GX800MXGN9S7N@smtp2.doit.wisc.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 05 Jun 2002 10:05:52 -0500 (CDT) From: Barbara Wolff Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gloves and hat etiquette In-reply-to: <3CFD81E6.7070502@oldwaylane.net> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <158.ed915f4.2a2ed2d9@aol.com> <3CFD81E6.7070502@oldwaylane.net> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 10:05:54 -0600 Status: RO Greetings from a lurker-fan! To broaden this trend a tad, does anyone out there know the "rules" of late 19th-C. "morning-afternoon-evening" wear? I'm prompted to ask because a neighboring town (Columbus, Wis.) is having a huge classic carriage event this weekend, complete w/authentic costumes. There will be period events (the centerpiece will be a picnic), and participants are graded heavily on wearing the proper garb. Time of day seems to be a special factor - the organizers don't seem to have a 'site I could tootle up, so any insight to feed my curiosity is greatly appreciated! Thank you, and cheers ~ Barbara in Madison, Wis. -- Barbara Wolff University Communications University of Wisconsin-Madison (608) 262-8292 bjwolff@facstaff.wisc.edu _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 5 12:31:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA31029 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 12:31:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g55GOmC24207; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 10:24:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g55GOkx20937; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 10:24:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (new-comet.pacifier.com [216.65.150.155]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g55GNQx20062 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 10:23:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 ([207.173.174.225]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g55GNNc24660 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 09:23:23 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [h-cost] American Patriotic Holidays Message-ID: <3CFDDA06.27633.1E31D07A@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 09:29:42 -0700 Status: RO > Actually it isn't a public holiday in the UK; > ceremonies honouring the war dead take place on the nearest Sunday to > Nov, 11th, though in recent years there has been a return to the > custom of observing a minute's silence at 11 a.m. on the 11th itself. > The poppies are one of those weeds that tend to come up on disturbed > ground - they were a common sight in corn- (i.e. wheat) fields before > herbicides - and so they grew around the trenches in WW1. That's around the time of our "Veteran's Day". Memorial day isn't strictly for war dead, but rather for *all* dead. When I was little, we'd go out to the cemetery and clean up our relatives graves on that day. Interesting about the poppies. That makes the sale of artificial poppies on Veteran's day (for money for charities) make much more sense. Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 5 12:53:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA31153 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 12:53:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g55GkOC26457; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 10:46:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g55GkNx04873; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 10:46:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from benfranklin.hnet.uci.edu (root@benfranklin.hnet.uci.edu [128.200.119.150]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g55GiDx03201 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 10:44:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from UAOBRIEN.uci.edu (HIB435A.HNET.UCI.EDU [128.200.119.223]) by benfranklin.hnet.uci.edu (8.9.3/) with ESMTP id JAA10756 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 09:44:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020605094330.01bd2e70@benfranklin.hnet.uci.edu> X-Sender: uaobrien@benfranklin.hnet.uci.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Ulrika A. O'Brien" Subject: RE: [h-cost] American Patriotic Holidays In-Reply-To: <3CFDDA06.27633.1E31D07A@localhost> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 09:46:56 -0700 Status: RO At 09:29 AM 6/5/2002, you wrote: > > Actually it isn't a public holiday in the UK; > > ceremonies honouring the war dead take place on the nearest Sunday to > > Nov, 11th, though in recent years there has been a return to the > > custom of observing a minute's silence at 11 a.m. on the 11th itself. > > The poppies are one of those weeds that tend to come up on disturbed > > ground - they were a common sight in corn- (i.e. wheat) fields before > > herbicides - and so they grew around the trenches in WW1. > >That's around the time of our "Veteran's Day". Memorial day isn't >strictly for war dead, but rather for *all* dead. When I was little, >we'd go out to the cemetery and clean up our relatives graves on >that day. > >Interesting about the poppies. That makes the sale of artificial >poppies on Veteran's day (for money for charities) make much >more sense. The poppies are almost certainly also an allusion to the WWI poem by John McCrae: In Flanders Fields In Flanders fields the poppies blow Between the crosses, row on row That mark our place; and in the sky The larks, still bravely singing, fly Scarce heard amid the guns below. We are the Dead. Short days ago We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow, Loved and were loved, and now we lie In Flanders fields. Take up our quarrel with the foe: To you from failing hands we throw The torch; be yours to hold it high. If ye break faith with us who die We shall not sleep, though poppies grow In Flanders fields. Ulrika O'Brien English & Comparative Literature University of California, Irvine 435 Humanities Instructional Building (949) 824-6712 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 5 13:33:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA31390 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 13:33:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g55HQ4C00591; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 11:26:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g55HQ2x00673; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 11:26:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g55HPex00451 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 11:25:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.34.108]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GX800EGOTQRKS@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 05 Jun 2002 10:25:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Getting recognized (WAS: Lurking) In-reply-to: <41903097CA0@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020605101353.00c63e80@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <200205311801.g4VI1mx21535@net.indra.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 10:21:21 -0700 Status: RO > being known on lists like this and >through other activities. > >Anyone else on the list had this happen? A friend of mine was in a store, got to talking to one of the sales help, and they started talking about costumes. The salesperson started telling my friend about this camouflage historical outfit she'd heard about, and by the time my friend got the details, from the salesperson, straightened out, it seemed that one of my costumes had achieved urban legend status in a small way. The sales person didn't know me. The costume was my 'Cammo-Colonial', a 1780 with a hand-quilted petticoat to match. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 5 13:39:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA31416 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 13:39:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g55HXAC01535; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 11:33:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g55HX9x05523; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 11:33:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f179.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.179]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g55HWSx05116 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 11:32:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 10:32:21 -0700 Received: from 207.137.181.62 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 05 Jun 2002 17:32:21 GMT X-Originating-IP: [207.137.181.62] From: "Maggie Secara" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] American Patriotic Holidays Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Jun 2002 17:32:21.0609 (UTC) FILETIME=[F2C0AD90:01C20CB6] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 10:32:21 -0700 Status: RO I was just about to go looking for the poem myself, when I read your message, Ulrika. Thank you. It still gives me chills as much as it did when I first read it in elementary school, and every time after. Beautifully written, powerfully stated. MaggiRos >From: "Ulrika A. O'Brien" >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: RE: [h-cost] American Patriotic Holidays >Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 09:46:56 -0700 > >At 09:29 AM 6/5/2002, you wrote: > >> > Actually it isn't a public holiday in the UK; >> > ceremonies honouring the war dead take place on the nearest Sunday to >> > Nov, 11th, though in recent years there has been a return to the >> > custom of observing a minute's silence at 11 a.m. on the 11th itself. >> > The poppies are one of those weeds that tend to come up on disturbed >> > ground - they were a common sight in corn- (i.e. wheat) fields before >> > herbicides - and so they grew around the trenches in WW1. >> >>That's around the time of our "Veteran's Day". Memorial day isn't >>strictly for war dead, but rather for *all* dead. When I was little, >>we'd go out to the cemetery and clean up our relatives graves on >>that day. >> >>Interesting about the poppies. That makes the sale of artificial >>poppies on Veteran's day (for money for charities) make much >>more sense. > >The poppies are almost certainly also an allusion to the WWI poem >by John McCrae: > >In Flanders Fields > >In Flanders fields the poppies blow >Between the crosses, row on row >That mark our place; and in the sky >The larks, still bravely singing, fly >Scarce heard amid the guns below. > >We are the Dead. Short days ago >We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow, >Loved and were loved, and now we lie >In Flanders fields. > >Take up our quarrel with the foe: >To you from failing hands we throw >The torch; be yours to hold it high. >If ye break faith with us who die >We shall not sleep, though poppies grow >In Flanders fields. > > > _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 5 14:08:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA31637 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 14:07:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g55I0HC04406; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 12:00:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g55I07x22706; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 12:00:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f62.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.62]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g55HxOx22201 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 11:59:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 10:59:19 -0700 Received: from 24.200.48.35 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 05 Jun 2002 17:59:18 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.200.48.35] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Interns Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Jun 2002 17:59:19.0158 (UTC) FILETIME=[B6E31160:01C20CBA] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 17:59:18 +0000 Status: RO I haven't got any experience in costume or fashion, but when I did internship in computer work (was paid work, but it doesn't matter here) the greatest thing that happened is they ended up giving me a project of my own to follow to the end. Of course, it ended up going much slower than if it had been done by someone with more experience, but it had me interact with people I needed to work with, contact the clients myself, organize meetings, get authorizations, and program the applcation in question myself. I did every step of the project myself, so it was a much better learning experience than just chasing bugs in existing programs or programming pre-planned web pages. I think you could apply the same to her: get her to meet the client(s) with you, get her involved in the planning stages, then make her do some of the work (even if it's the simple hidden parts - you could even ask her what part of the work she'd prefer doing). Or give her a task that's simpler, but that you've pushed back for a long time because you don't have time to do it yourself. Ask her opinion, and once in a while consider following her advice :-) Of course, all this is based on my experience as a computer scientist, not as a costumer... >From: Margo Anderson >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: h-costume@indra.com, , > >Subject: [h-cost] Costume Interns >Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 10:07:46 -0700 > >My son's teacher has a teenage daughter who wants to go to fashion school, >and who is interested in being an intern in my pattern business. Does >anyone out there who has had an intern, or been one, have any advice for >me? > >She understands that I can't pay her, and she'd be working for experience, >and for a letter of recommendation to fashion school. I understand that >three weeks of stuffing envelopes and picking up pins is not what she's >interested in, and that I need to give her some interesting projects that >will let her learn and have fun. Is there anything else I should keep in >mind? > >Margo >"One Tough Costumer" > > >See the Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 5 14:22:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA31687 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 14:22:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g55IG8C05937; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 12:16:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g55IG5x02975; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 12:16:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r03.mx.aol.com (imo-r03.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.99]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g55IF6x02303 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 12:15:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo-r03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.10c.12e3a2b9 (4246) for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 14:14:54 -0400 (EDT) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Message-ID: <10c.12e3a2b9.2a2faf1e@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] thermoplastic/Wonderflex To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_10c.12e3a2b9.2a2faf1e_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10509 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 14:14:54 EDT Status: RO --part1_10c.12e3a2b9.2a2faf1e_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/4/2002 9:07:52 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ladyanne@quik.com writes: > Oh dear, I am not sure what the difference is. I thought they were > basically the same stuff with different names. I know the principle behind > Friendly Plastic but have never used it. Which would be best for head > dresses? Thanks, Anne > They are basically the same thing. Two different manufacturers. I think Thermoplastic has been around longer, as that's what my connection uses at the local regional/professional theater in San Jose. Either is suitable for a headdress that you wish to be firm, lightweight and breathable. Emphasis on firm. The substance can be worked over and over again until the shape is perfect. It could be used anywhere you want something permanent that you'd ordinarly make of papier mache or similar method. angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com Theatrical Costume Design "The naked truth of it is, I have no shirt." Love's Labours Lost, V, ii - W. Shakespeare --part1_10c.12e3a2b9.2a2faf1e_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/4/2002 9:07:52 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ladyanne@quik.com writes:


Oh dear, I am not sure what the difference is.  I thought they were basically the same stuff with different names.  I know the principle behind Friendly Plastic but have never used it.  Which would be best for head dresses?  Thanks, Anne


They are basically the same thing.  Two different manufacturers. I think Thermoplastic has been around longer, as that's what my connection uses at the local regional/professional theater in San Jose.  Either is suitable for a headdress that you wish to be firm, lightweight and breathable.  Emphasis on firm.  The substance can be worked over and over again until the shape is perfect.  It could be used anywhere you want something permanent that you'd ordinarly make of papier mache or similar method.

angela
+++++
Angela F. Lazear
Cabbage Rose Costumes
http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com
Theatrical Costume Design

"The naked truth of it is, I have no shirt."
Love's Labours Lost, V, ii - W. Shakespeare
 --part1_10c.12e3a2b9.2a2faf1e_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 5 18:50:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA00677 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 18:50:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g55Mi7C02205; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 16:44:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g55Mi2w03728; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 16:44:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from granger.mail.mindspring.net (granger.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.148]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g55Mh5w03280 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 16:43:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 1cust3.tnt8.st-louis.mo.da.uu.net ([65.229.122.3] helo=hppav) by granger.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17FjUe-00046E-00 for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Wed, 05 Jun 2002 18:43:04 -0400 Message-ID: <004a01c20ce2$7444bfc0$037ae541@hppav> From: "Genie" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Subject: [h-cost] American Patriotic Holidays Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 17:43:45 -0500 Status: RO Costume sidelight - the plot of one of Dorothy Sayers' detective novels hinges on the fact that in the '20s people didn't wear their poppies until Armistice Day itself, whereas nowadays we pin them on as soon as we buy them, any time from the beginning of November Oh, which one please. Genie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 5 19:27:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA00851 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 19:27:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g55NL3C05457; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 17:21:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g55NL2w21247; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 17:21:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from granger.mail.mindspring.net (granger.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.148]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g55NKxw21216 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 17:20:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 1cust3.tnt8.st-louis.mo.da.uu.net ([65.229.122.3] helo=hppav) by granger.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17Fk5H-0003J8-00 for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Wed, 05 Jun 2002 19:20:56 -0400 Message-ID: <005401c20ce7$be7c6fc0$037ae541@hppav> From: "Genie" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Subject: [h-cost] Getting recognized (WAS: Lurking) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 18:21:36 -0500 Status: RO Have you heard of the Strauss Waltz drill team. Full Victiorian, male and female, entirely made of camo fabrics. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 5 20:00:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA01210 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 20:00:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g55Ns4C07642; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 17:54:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g55Ns2w04955; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 17:54:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g55Nrew04823 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 17:53:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A5035BF02A0; Wed, 05 Jun 2002 18:55:47 -0500 Message-ID: <005301c20ceb$c0069560$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Interns X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 19:50:19 -0400 Status: RO When I did my internship at the Valentine Museum, it was unpaid. But they were offering 2 scholarship to the interns that they thought did their best work. I was awarded one of them. I can tell you that internship was one of the most valuable experiences that I ever had. I learned so much working hands-on with the costumes. I also learned how heavily networked our industry is. The curator took me on field trips and introduced me to so many wonderful people in our industry. These were people that otherwise I might have never have meet. And it really helped me get my foot in the door. I learned so much, even doing meaning less things like re-bagging the costume collection. I got to do up-close inspections of historic garments like Meriweather Lewis coat from his expeditions, Lady Astor's court gown, and George Washington's niece's wedding gown. Yes, I re-bagged all of them. I also re-bagged the largest collection of historic wedding gowns in the U.S. What a design dream! What a wonderful education that I will always be thankful to the museum for giving me the opportunity. When the curator was out of town for two weeks, I worked with the curator of manuscripts and photographs. I learned so much there about research techniques, storage, and working with publishers who were borrowing photos and manuscripts. As for pay... I often thought that I should have paid them for the opportunity and education. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 5 20:19:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA01359 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 20:19:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g560D3C08815; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 18:13:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g560D2w12315; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 18:13:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from watchman.propagation.net ([63.249.230.111]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g560CEw12011 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 18:12:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumemag.com (co-trinidad1a-180.lbrlks.adelphia.net [68.64.140.180]) by watchman.propagation.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA14414 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 19:12:10 -0500 Message-ID: <3CFEA8DC.5462CBAC@costumemag.com> From: Mary Denise Smith X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-NSCPCD (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Waltzing with Mr Strauss References: <005401c20ce7$be7c6fc0$037ae541@hppav> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 18:12:12 -0600 Status: RO Do you mean the entry at Costume Con a few years back? That was all 19thC (not exclusively Victorian, if I recall), done in denim . . . MD/Marged _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 5 20:49:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA01517 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 20:49:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g560h3C10361; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 18:43:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g560h2w22235; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 18:43:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m08.mx.aol.com (imo-m08.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.163]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g560glw22126 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 18:42:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.43.c7e2a8d (4226) for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 20:42:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Appin1@aol.com Message-ID: <43.c7e2a8d.2a3009fd@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Assistance in A Search To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_43.c7e2a8d.2a3009fd_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10513 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 20:42:37 EDT Status: RO --part1_43.c7e2a8d.2a3009fd_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David -- You sent this to me. Did you mean to? Kathy --part1_43.c7e2a8d.2a3009fd_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David -- You sent this to me. Did you mean to?

Kathy --part1_43.c7e2a8d.2a3009fd_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 5 20:57:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA01570 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 20:57:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g560p2C10730; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 18:51:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g560p1w24938; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 18:51:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dc-mx03.cluster1.charter.net (dc-mx03.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.8.13]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g560oRw24748 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 18:50:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [66.188.127.221] (HELO laptop) by dc-mx03.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with SMTP id 21897648 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 05 Jun 2002 20:50:21 -0400 Message-ID: <008e01c20cf4$19efe1a0$dd7fbc42@mad.chartermi.net> From: "Rebecca Schmitt" To: References: <158.ed915f4.2a2ed2d9@aol.com> <3CFD81E6.7070502@oldwaylane.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Madison event MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 19:50:05 -0500 Status: RO Who - what - where - near Madison??? Can you give me details? That sounds like fun! ********************** Rebecca Schmitt aka Mistress Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot, cod merchant of Bristol, BRF FOF New to Madison and so looking for people here who know what's going on where lotsofteapots@charter.net ********************** ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barbara Wolff" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 11:05 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gloves and hat etiquette > Greetings from a lurker-fan! To broaden this trend a tad, does anyone > out there know the "rules" of late 19th-C. > "morning-afternoon-evening" wear? I'm prompted to ask because a > neighboring town (Columbus, Wis.) is having a huge classic carriage > event this weekend, complete w/authentic costumes. There will be > period events (the centerpiece will be a picnic), and participants > are graded heavily on wearing the proper garb. Time of day seems to > be a special factor - the organizers don't seem to have a 'site I > could tootle up, so any insight to feed my curiosity is greatly > appreciated! Thank you, and cheers ~ > > Barbara in Madison, Wis. > -- > Barbara Wolff > University Communications > University of Wisconsin-Madison > (608) 262-8292 > bjwolff@facstaff.wisc.edu > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 5 20:59:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA01578 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 20:59:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g560r6C10827; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 18:53:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g560r6w25659; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 18:53:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g560q9w25281 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 18:52:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.34.108]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GX9002N4EEV09@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 05 Jun 2002 17:52:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Waltzing with Mr Strauss In-reply-to: <3CFEA8DC.5462CBAC@costumemag.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020605175118.00a9ff00@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <005401c20ce7$be7c6fc0$037ae541@hppav> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 17:51:40 -0700 Status: RO Nope. These folks waltzed like a drill team. >Do you mean the entry at Costume Con a few years back? That was all >19thC (not exclusively Victorian, if I recall), done in denim . . . Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 5 20:59:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA01582 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 20:59:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g560r2C10813; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 18:53:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g560r2w25622; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 18:53:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g560q8w25273 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 18:52:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.34.108]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GX9002N4EEV09@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 05 Jun 2002 17:52:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Getting recognized (WAS: Lurking) In-reply-to: <005401c20ce7$be7c6fc0$037ae541@hppav> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020605174753.00dac920@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 17:50:54 -0700 Status: RO >Have you heard of the Strauss Waltz drill team. Full Victiorian, male and >female, entirely made of camo fabrics. Not entirely. Some, according to the mil-spec documentation they had at WorldCon in San Francisco, was plain colours. They even had the mil-spec part numbers stencilled on their bloomers. And, one of them told me, they did their flat-felling like actual government uniform suppliers do, in two passes with single needle rather than in one pass with a double needle. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 5 21:30:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA01693 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 21:30:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g561O5C12174; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 19:24:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g561O4w05443; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 19:24:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g561Ncw05264 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 19:23:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id AA1A7AB6012C; Wed, 05 Jun 2002 20:25:46 -0500 Message-ID: <00a101c20cf8$4fe49b80$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] Usage of "the" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 21:20:14 -0400 Status: RO I have mixed feelings about using the word "the" as a title. I use the word "The" in the title of my business, The Costume Gallery, for a certain reason. Years ago in our area their was a grocery store that opened up called "The Grocery Store." I really loved the way the placed the word "The" in their title. How many times in our life have we said that we are going to the grocery store. You didn't name the store you were going to... the grocery store was a generic term, meaning you were going to a store that sold groceries. So these people coined the generic phrase to be the title of their business. When I was working on my first exhibit (meaning I worked on it) in the Valentine Museum... we were moving costumes and mannequins for a week to the gallery from storage. Every time we moved the items, the workers on the exhibit would say, I am going to "the costume gallery." In the museum world, it is a generic term for where the costumes are exhibited. A couple of months later when we decided to turn my online library into a business, I decided to name it "The Costume Gallery." It is a generic place were you can go to see all kinds of costumes exhibited. I even set it up the site with a museum format, with different locations, to visit. As for using the word "the" as a title when referring to a person... it is one of my pet peeves. Please don't flame me, its just my personal opinion, and I don't care to argue the point. I just thought I would offer a different viewpoint. When I started in the costume world, I knew some people who like to be called "The 'you insert a name' ". It was an elitist thing or the Royalty of our Industry. They liked to think they were unapproachable.... like divas. Personally if someone put me in that category, I would be very upset. I love meeting people and hearing their stories. I learn so much from each person I meet and think every person is just as special as the last person I meet. I like for people to remember me as just a girl who really enjoys what she does and enjoys sharing it with others. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 5 22:52:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA02002 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 22:52:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g562k5C16060; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 20:46:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g562k3w04405; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 20:46:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.60]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g562jkw04320 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 20:45:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 66-44-47-247.s2025.apx1.lnhdc.md.dialup.rcn.com ([66.44.47.247] helo=erols.com) by smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #5) id 17FnHV-0004t4-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 05 Jun 2002 22:45:46 -0400 Message-ID: <3CFEF77C.98964740@erols.com> From: "David S. Mallinak" Organization: Red Dragon Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gloves and hat etiquette References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: matchlck@erols.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 22:47:40 -0700 Status: RO Rebecca Anderson wrote: > > Have you ever seen the kids book "I like hats" > > No hats! How awful for you. > > I have a whole room filled with hats. I never leave the house without > one. I have vintage hats, modern hats, period reconstruction hats. Have hats stored in three different closets. In fact I am changing from my winter hats to my summer hats. In fact it is one of my fantasy wishes that most men would wear more than baseball caps... When I was in Toastmasters, a speech club, many years ago, I did "Hats for every occasion" as the humor speech. Think of of a Southern revival meeting meet the advantage of wearing hats. The club was speechless when I admitted that expect for the very large straw hat (borrowed from a lady friend) all the hats were mine. I still get ask to do the speech. Your humble and obedient servant, David S Mallinak _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 5 23:37:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA02433 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 23:37:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g563V4C18190; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 21:31:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g563V3w20732; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 21:31:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.60]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g563U4w20414 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 21:30:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 66-44-47-247.s2025.apx1.lnhdc.md.dialup.rcn.com ([66.44.47.247] helo=erols.com) by smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #5) id 17FnyK-0003Qh-00; Wed, 05 Jun 2002 23:30:02 -0400 Message-ID: <3CFF01B9.3CBDA48B@erols.com> From: "David S. Mallinak" Organization: Red Dragon Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com, penny@costumegallery.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Textile Mills References: <002901c1eb56$cb608620$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: matchlck@erols.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 23:31:21 -0700 Status: RO Penny Ladnier wrote: > 1. Does anyone know the name of George Washington's boyhood home outside of > Ft. A.P. Hill in Virginia. It is near Robert E. Lee's home on the Northern > Neck. I know this is still a working plantation and they do the shearing of > sheep, spinning of wool, etc. I thought it would be a good field trip for > the boys. Do you mean George Washington Birthplace National Monument, Located in Westmoreland County, VA. You can get more information at http://www.nps.gov/gewa/. Your humble and obedient servant, David S Mallinak _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 5 23:43:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA02488 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 23:43:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g563bDC18453; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 21:37:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g563bCw22857; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 21:37:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g563ajw22684 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 21:36:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) id g563cO983571 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 20:38:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200206060338.g563cO983571@jabberwock.wonderland.com> In-Reply-To: <3CFF01B9.3CBDA48B@erols.com> "from David S. Mallinak at Jun 5, 2002 11:31:21 pm" To: h-costume@indra.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL82 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] north carolina Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 20:38:24 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO I'm getting ready to go on a one week trip to north carolina - my home state, but it's been so long since I've been there that I'm not sure if there are any good costume/textile places I should check out. I'll be in the Triangle area -- Raleigh, Durham, Chapel Hill. Any suggestions? .heather. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jun 6 01:21:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA02849 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 2002 01:21:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g565F6C22480; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 23:15:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g565F4w20737; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 23:15:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g565EFw20495 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 23:14:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A0277D07012C; Thu, 06 Jun 2002 00:16:23 -0500 Message-ID: <010401c20d18$7f882440$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <002901c1eb56$cb608620$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> <3CFF01B9.3CBDA48B@erols.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Textile Mills X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 01:10:38 -0400 Status: RO Thanks David. We already made the trip to Westmoreland last month. It was wonderful, the boys got to watch them shear the sheep as they would have in George's childhood. They also got to see a blacksmith at work. They really enjoyed it. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "David S. Mallinak" To: ; Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 2:31 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Textile Mills > Penny Ladnier wrote: > > > 1. Does anyone know the name of George Washington's boyhood home outside of > > Ft. A.P. Hill in Virginia. It is near Robert E. Lee's home on the Northern > > Neck. I know this is still a working plantation and they do the shearing of > > sheep, spinning of wool, etc. I thought it would be a good field trip for > > the boys. > > Do you mean George Washington Birthplace National Monument, Located > in Westmoreland County, VA. You can get more information at > http://www.nps.gov/gewa/. > > Your humble and obedient servant, > David S Mallinak > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jun 6 04:15:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA31791 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 2002 04:15:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5688wC27719; Thu, 6 Jun 2002 02:08:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5688tw01408; Thu, 6 Jun 2002 02:08:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.5]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5687Ow01041 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 2002 02:07:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from csv6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA15310.; Thu, 6 Jun 2002 09:07:33 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by csv6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 06 Jun 2002 09:07:18 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.1 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] American Patriotic Holidays Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g5687Ow01041 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 09:06:59 +0100 Status: RO Genie wrote: Costume sidelight - the plot of one of Dorothy Sayers' detective novels hinges on the fact that in the '20s people didn't wear their poppies until Armistice Day itself, whereas nowadays we pin them on as soon as we buy them, any time from the beginning of November >Oh, which one please. "The Unpleasantness at the Bellona Club". Thanks to Ulrika for quoting the poem, which had been mentioned in a previous post. Yes, that is the origin of the custom; the botanical note was for those unfamiliar with European wild poppies. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jun 6 09:07:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA32717 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 2002 09:07:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g56D1CC05437; Thu, 6 Jun 2002 07:01:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g56D15w03360; Thu, 6 Jun 2002 07:01:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g56D0Mw03151 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 2002 07:00:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.80.1ca1a6bb (16635) for ; Thu, 6 Jun 2002 09:00:08 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <80.1ca1a6bb.2a30b6d7@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] north carolina To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_80.1ca1a6bb.2a30b6d7_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10568 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 09:00:07 EDT Status: RO --part1_80.1ca1a6bb.2a30b6d7_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The only store of note is Mary Jo's in Gastonia [near Charlotte]. Most shops are upholstery oriented anyway....they do do the furniture market in High Point twice a year, y'know. There is this fancy-schmancy shop in Chapel Hill but it's way overpriced. Still, you never know what will turn up even at upholstery shops! [you folks who do Regency must love the cotton gauzes out everywhere for window sheers] Or even at Jo Anne's. Sorry if I've dampened your enthusiasm. --part1_80.1ca1a6bb.2a30b6d7_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The only store of note is Mary Jo's in Gastonia [near Charlotte]. Most shops are upholstery oriented anyway....they do do the furniture market in High Point twice a year, y'know. There is this fancy-schmancy shop in Chapel Hill but it's way overpriced.

Still, you never know what will turn up even at upholstery shops! [you folks who do Regency must love the cotton gauzes out everywhere for window sheers] Or even at Jo Anne's.

Sorry if I've dampened your enthusiasm. --part1_80.1ca1a6bb.2a30b6d7_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jun 6 09:19:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA00305 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 2002 09:19:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g56DD9C05915; Thu, 6 Jun 2002 07:13:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g56DD9w06722; Thu, 6 Jun 2002 07:13:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.10]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g56DCUw06532 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 2002 07:12:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [132.236.139.158] ([132.236.139.158]) by postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA16167 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 2002 09:12:27 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200206060338.g563cO983571@jabberwock.wonderland.com> References: <3CFF01B9.3CBDA48B@erols.com> "from David S. Mallinak at Jun 5, 2002 11:31:21 pm" To: h-costume@indra.com From: "M. Stewart" Subject: Re: [h-cost] north carolina Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 09:12:23 -0700 Status: RO Hey Heather... in Chapel Hill , the Cotton Boll and Mulberry Silks. Mari Stewart, Cornell University, Ithaca NY Native of Chapel Hill, NC who also sometimes goes by "The Stewart of Black River" ; > it's a family thing tied to our history - and some of the first grants of land here in "the colonies" >I'm getting ready to go on a one week trip to north carolina - >my home state, but it's been so long since I've been there that >I'm not sure if there are any good costume/textile places I should >check out. I'll be in the Triangle area -- Raleigh, Durham, Chapel >Hill. Any suggestions? M. Stewart Webmaster/Electronic Communications BCERF / Cornell University 101 Rice Hall _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jun 6 09:37:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA00339 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 2002 09:37:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g56DV2C06785; Thu, 6 Jun 2002 07:31:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g56DV2w12001; Thu, 6 Jun 2002 07:31:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g56DUnw11938 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 2002 07:30:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dandy.net (pvil2044.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.237.44]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA12851 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 2002 09:28:54 -0400 Message-ID: <3CFF631C.2FAE8A05@dandy.net> From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bag Hats & Stocking Caps References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 09:26:52 -0400 Status: RO Hi. There are some cultures that use what you seem to be describing. The Janissary troops of the Ottoman Sultan use a sort of cylindrical hat that flops backwards, almost like the bag you mention, and Polish hats of the late 16th cent. have elements like that (perhaps the Eastern influence?) similar to the tapered variant. Of course, if you are creating this for a particular culture, rather than just a time period, you have begun to be more complex in your study. The Janissary one, for example, was only worn by men, and then only certain ones, so the process of retro or reverse documentation is fine if just for study, but if you are looking for it for the purposes of making one to wear, in this case, you have severely limited your scope. Perhaps if you shared a little more info on what you would like to see, folks can narrow down the area of search. As for online sources, look for illos about Mehmed the Conqueror's invasions of Rhodes, Otranto, and the later siege of Constantinople in some Eastern art archives to see the Janissary hat I mentioned, and Polish Institute of Art, Polish Army Museum and University of Warsaw to search out illos on the Polish version. Good Luck with your project, Mike T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jun 6 09:43:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA00351 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 2002 09:43:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g56Db5C07095; Thu, 6 Jun 2002 07:37:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g56Db4w13939; Thu, 6 Jun 2002 07:37:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g56Dadw13819 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 2002 07:36:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dnyeaqvf (net16sp126.directcon.net [209.233.107.126]) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id g56DaGFD020662; Thu, 6 Jun 2002 06:36:17 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020606055303.008512a0@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com, "h-costume" From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Usage of "the" In-Reply-To: <00a101c20cf8$4fe49b80$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 05:53:03 -0700 Status: RO > >As for using the word "the" as a title when referring to a person... it is >one of my pet peeves. Please don't flame me, its just my personal opinion, >and I don't care to argue the point. I just thought I would offer a >different viewpoint. When I started in the costume world, I knew some >people who like to be called "The 'you insert a name' ". It was an elitist >thing or the Royalty of our Industry. They liked to think they were >unapproachable.... like divas. Hmm. Not a flame, but a comment: If I was told that, say, Joni Mitchell was in the room, I'd Say "THE Joni Mitchell?" as shorthand for "The Joni Mitchell who's a musician and songwriter, whose work I've adored for thirty years and who I'd love to meet, or is it someone else with the same name?" I don't see how this is offensive. I was simply offering an amusing anectdode about having my name recognized due to its being known through the Net. And, much as I'd like to be a Diva, I don't think anyone who's met me whould call me unnaproachable. Not hardly. Now, if I start calling MYSELF "The Margo Anderson" You all have my permission to slap me down for it, as often as needed. Margo (The Radiant One, She whose Light Shines on the Universe, whose Magnifience....oh, never mind) "One Tough Costumer" See the Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jun 6 09:48:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA00488 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 2002 09:48:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g56Dg3C07395; Thu, 6 Jun 2002 07:42:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g56Dg2w15598; Thu, 6 Jun 2002 07:42:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13303.mail.yahoo.com (web13303.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.39]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g56DfVw15356 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 2002 07:41:31 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020606134130.25567.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13303.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 06 Jun 2002 14:41:30 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Usage of "the" To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020606055303.008512a0@pop.directcon.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 14:41:30 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Margo Anderson wrote: > > Margo > (The Radiant One, She whose Light Shines on the Universe, whose > Magnifience....oh, never mind) > "One Tough Costumer" *cries tears of laughter* Full marks Margo! Nicole (obligatory costume content: I still don't have a photo of my morning gown, grrrrrr, I forgot!) ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jun 6 09:56:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA00509 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 2002 09:56:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g56DoGC07900; Thu, 6 Jun 2002 07:50:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g56DoFw18360; Thu, 6 Jun 2002 07:50:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g56DnQw18039 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 2002 07:49:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dandy.net (pvil2044.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.237.44]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA02988 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 2002 09:47:32 -0400 Message-ID: <3CFF6779.3679B977@dandy.net> From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Assistance in A Search References: <32.27b5f532.2a28f803@aol.com> <3CF831DE.42D93DAF@dandy.net> <3CFDBD69.6043D306@erols.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 09:45:30 -0400 Status: RO Hi, Dave. We will look when we get a chance to go out to NS. We have to go out fairly soon to get some arrangements made regarding the bank, as we have deposits from tours and Shiela is not well. Hopefully that will be in the next few weeks. When do you need it next, and how do you want us to get it to you should we find it? Thanks again for the books. Leigh will be starting your One pounder soon. Talk to you soon, Mike _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jun 6 12:06:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01289 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 2002 12:06:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g56G0HC19284; Thu, 6 Jun 2002 10:00:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g56G0Fw22426; Thu, 6 Jun 2002 10:00:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web11703.mail.yahoo.com (web11703.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.69]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g56FxIw21904 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 2002 09:59:18 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020606155917.71578.qmail@web11703.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [66.57.244.86] by web11703.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 06 Jun 2002 08:59:17 PDT From: carol Subject: Re: [h-cost] north carolina To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-225905690-1023379157=:70234" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 08:59:17 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO --0-225905690-1023379157=:70234 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Mari Carol here, living in Chapel Hill and loving it ! Just thought I'd say hi .... Both of the stores you mentioned are still here and doing well. If you're ever in the neighborhood, drop me a line and we can go fabric shopping Regards Carol ....you cease to mourn the morning when you celebrate the night ..... "The night summons like an unquenched love, beckoning with the promise of dark desires." "The only way to get rid of temptation is to give in to it" ... Oscar Wilde --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Sign-up for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup --0-225905690-1023379157=:70234 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

  Hi Mari

Carol here, living in Chapel Hill and loving it  !  Just thought I'd say hi .... Both of the stores you mentioned are still here and doing well.  If you're ever in the neighborhood, drop me a line and we can go fabric shopping

Regards

Carol



....you cease to mourn the morning when you celebrate the night .....

"The night summons like an unquenched love, beckoning with the promise of dark desires."

"The only way to get rid of temptation is to give in to it" ... Oscar Wilde


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Sign-up for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup --0-225905690-1023379157=:70234-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jun 6 12:56:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01680 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 2002 12:56:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g56GnCC23683; Thu, 6 Jun 2002 10:49:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g56GnBw21099; Thu, 6 Jun 2002 10:49:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.wiscmail.wisc.edu (dancer.doit.wisc.edu [144.92.197.146]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g56GmRw20636 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 2002 10:48:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [128.104.90.215] by smtp2.doit.wisc.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.5 (built Apr 17 2002)) with ESMTP id <0GXA008AVMOOMC@smtp2.doit.wisc.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 06 Jun 2002 11:48:25 -0500 (CDT) From: Barbara Wolff Subject: Re: [h-cost] Madison event In-reply-to: <008e01c20cf4$19efe1a0$dd7fbc42@mad.chartermi.net> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <158.ed915f4.2a2ed2d9@aol.com> <3CFD81E6.7070502@oldwaylane.net> <008e01c20cf4$19efe1a0$dd7fbc42@mad.chartermi.net> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 11:48:26 -0600 Status: RO >Hey Mistress C. - It does indeed sound like fun; I don't know much >about it, but I think it starts about 10 a.m., Fri-Sat-Sun, >w/"authenticity judging" (they call it "turnout") of carriages and >costumes, via assorted events (like the aforementioned picnic) over >those days. There are, incidentally, two authentic-reproduction >carriage-makers in Columbus, which is about 30 miles east of Madison >on Hwy. 151. Getting back to the weekend, people come from all over >the country for it - sorry I don't know more, but this is the first >year I've heard of it. Hope you're able to take in some of it, and >welcome to Madison! Barbara >Who - what - where - near Madison??? Can you give me details? That sounds >like fun! > >********************** >Rebecca Schmitt >aka Mistress Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot, cod merchant of >Bristol, >BRF FOF > >New to Madison and so looking for people here who know what's going on where > >lotsofteapots@charter.net >********************** > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Barbara Wolff" >To: >Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 11:05 AM >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gloves and hat etiquette > > >> Greetings from a lurker-fan! To broaden this trend a tad, does anyone >> out there know the "rules" of late 19th-C. >> "morning-afternoon-evening" wear? I'm prompted to ask because a >> neighboring town (Columbus, Wis.) is having a huge classic carriage >> event this weekend, complete w/authentic costumes. There will be >> period events (the centerpiece will be a picnic), and participants >> are graded heavily on wearing the proper garb. Time of day seems to >> be a special factor - the organizers don't seem to have a 'site I >> could tootle up, so any insight to feed my curiosity is greatly >> appreciated! Thank you, and cheers ~ >> >> Barbara in Madison, Wis. >> -- >> Barbara Wolff >> University Communications >> University of Wisconsin-Madison >> (608) 262-8292 >> bjwolff@facstaff.wisc.edu >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Barbara Wolff University Communications University of Wisconsin-Madison (608) 262-8292 bjwolff@facstaff.wisc.edu _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jun 6 13:14:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA01770 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 2002 13:14:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g56H8DC25504; Thu, 6 Jun 2002 11:08:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g56H8Bw02516; Thu, 6 Jun 2002 11:08:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from b.smtp-out.sonic.net (b.smtp-out.sonic.net [208.201.224.39]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g56H7Aw01897 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 2002 11:07:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 13910 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2002 16:01:51 -0000 Received: from turbo.sonic.net (208.201.224.26) by b.smtp-out.sonic.net with SMTP; 6 Jun 2002 16:01:51 -0000 Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-101-202.sonic.net [209.148.101.202]) by turbo.sonic.net (8.11.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id g56H79G12944 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 2002 10:07:09 -0700 X-envelope-info: Message-ID: <3CFF97A5.4857DB1E@lavoltapress.com> From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Cheap silk brocade online Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 10:11:01 -0700 Status: RO Fabric Direct http://www.fabricdirect.com/ Choose Apparel Fabric Collection Then Chinese Brocade Some of this is marked as 100% silk, some as 100% polyester. All $7.99 per yard by a spot check. You have to buy the entire bolt. I bought two bolts of the silk--probably shouldn't, as I have no idea what I will do with that much. It does seem to be silk, though I did no tests for purity. It's kind of a medium weight, not heavy but not quite as light as blouse weight. As for customer service: This site doesn't answer emails in my experience. If you use the ZoneAlarm firewall you have to turn it off to make their shopping cart work. Their shipping is reasonably prompt. Anyway, it's a good price if you can figure out what to do with 25 yards of brocade. Fran Grimble --------------------------------------------- Visit our web pages! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and vintage dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jun 6 16:49:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02900 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 2002 16:49:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g56KhJC17669; Thu, 6 Jun 2002 14:43:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g56KhEw10137; Thu, 6 Jun 2002 14:43:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g56KgVw09710 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 2002 14:42:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comcast.net (pcp234016pcs.elictc01.md.comcast.net [68.55.178.225]) by mtaout03.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.8 (built May 13 2002)) with ESMTP id <0GXA00FCSXI56D@mtaout03.icomcast.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 06 Jun 2002 16:42:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Liz / Cozit To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <3CFFC920.6080507@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.0rc2) Gecko/20020512 Netscape/7.0b1 References: <200206061802.g56I2Dw06253@net.indra.com> Subject: [h-cost] Question about pleating Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 16:42:08 -0400 Status: RO Ok... Yeah, I've been making pleats of various sorts for years on bunches of things... but I've finally figured out what in the world keeps making my pleats on skirts go "wierd" (as anyone can tell you who has seen my "Irish gown" I've apparently even developed a way of curling fabric that shouldn't be curled) The problem is I've got hips... ok, so now I can include a bit of belly to that, too... but the original problem was simply hips. I've had a minimum of 10 inches difference hips and waist, over a short distance ever since way back when in HS. Funny, I'm only *just* now realizing that of course that's why the pleats are always being pulled out and curling and looking "wierd". I pleat the way I was taught, straight lines down. So... before I get to this next skirt later this month.... How in the world can you pleat regularly, reliably, neatly, and so that it "looks right" in such a way that the waist is that much narrower than the hips? I'm thinking that some sort of trapezoidal look is involved, but can't figure out how I'd figure the angle at the top, how to get it to lay right when on at least (figuring it might look odd off, but better that than curly on), and how to keep them even (not a problem with any sort of "square" pleats). I've got ideas, but I dread doing and re-doing experimentally, so I'm hoping for suggestions I can work into it before the first try (can you say "Muslin is your friend"?... hmmm... guess I have to hit that sale at JoAnns after all...) -Elisabeth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jun 6 18:37:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA03236 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 2002 18:37:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g56MV4C29008; Thu, 6 Jun 2002 16:31:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g56MV2w12654; Thu, 6 Jun 2002 16:31:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fnal.gov (heffalump.fnal.gov [131.225.9.20]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g56MUPw12324 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 2002 16:30:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from xena.fnal.gov ([131.225.122.154]) by smtp.fnal.gov (PMDF V6.0-24 #37519) with ESMTP id <0GXB00B022IOFC@smtp.fnal.gov> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 06 Jun 2002 17:30:25 -0500 (CDT) From: Deb Baddorf Subject: Re: [h-cost] Question about pleating In-reply-to: <3CFFC920.6080507@comcast.net> X-Sender: baddorf@mail.inil.com To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: baddorf@inil.com Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20020606172910.00ae3008@mail.inil.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <200206061802.g56I2Dw06253@net.indra.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 17:30:24 -0500 Status: RO How about putting a yoke at the top? 3-5" of fabric (as needed) that isn't pleated at all. Waistband at top. Pleats attach to bottom of yoke. Yoke bridges gap between waist and hips. Of course ... you didn't say if you were trying to stay period correct or not. ...... Deb At 04:42 PM 6/6/2002 -0400, you wrote: >Ok... Yeah, I've been making pleats of various sorts for years on bunches >of things... but I've finally figured out what in the world keeps making >my pleats on skirts go "wierd" (as anyone can tell you who has seen my >"Irish gown" I've apparently even developed a way of curling fabric that >shouldn't be curled) > >The problem is I've got hips... ok, so now I can include a bit of belly to >that, too... but the original problem was simply hips. I've had a minimum >of 10 inches difference hips and waist, over a short distance ever since >way back when in HS. Funny, I'm only *just* now realizing that of course >that's why the pleats are always being pulled out and curling and looking >"wierd". I pleat the way I was taught, straight lines down. > >So... before I get to this next skirt later this month.... > >How in the world can you pleat regularly, reliably, neatly, and so that it >"looks right" in such a way that the waist is that much narrower than the >hips? I'm thinking that some sort of trapezoidal look is involved, but >can't figure out how I'd figure the angle at the top, how to get it to lay >right when on at least (figuring it might look odd off, but better that >than curly on), and how to keep them even (not a problem with any sort of >"square" pleats). > >I've got ideas, but I dread doing and re-doing experimentally, so I'm >hoping for suggestions I can work into it before the first try (can you >say "Muslin is your friend"?... hmmm... guess I have to hit that sale at >JoAnns after all...) > >-Elisabeth > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jun 6 19:19:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA03493 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 2002 19:19:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g56ND7C02532; Thu, 6 Jun 2002 17:13:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g56ND3w04146; Thu, 6 Jun 2002 17:13:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.ihug.co.nz (mail@smtp2.ihug.co.nz [203.109.252.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g56NCUw03948 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 2002 17:12:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p199-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.192.199] by smtp2.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1 (Debian)) id 17G6Qd-0004ix-00; Fri, 07 Jun 2002 11:12:27 +1200 Message-ID: <003701c20daf$9fd8d220$c7c0adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: <200206061802.g56I2Dw06253@net.indra.com> <3CFFC920.6080507@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Question about pleating MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 11:12:23 +1200 Status: RO > How in the world can you pleat regularly, reliably, neatly, and so that > it "looks right" in such a way that the waist is that much narrower than > the hips? I'm thinking that some sort of trapezoidal look is involved, It sounds like you need much deeper pleats, so that the pleats still overlap over your hips more than they are now. Think of the 1840s bell shaped skirts.. the pleats used are very deep indeed and designed to go over a very wide hip shape. You could try sunray pleating, it's period for late SCA: http://frazzledfrau.tripod.com/1540erzherzoginanna.htm http://frazzledfrau.tripod.com/1534buch2.htm ( I actually need to fix these so that you are taken to the page I found them.. but I've lost a lot of links in a recent HDD reformat.) It looks like a lot of german gowns are based on a circular shape like this so that the pleatsflare from waist to hem. this could be the excuse to try german renn.. come over to the dark side... use the for- oh wrong place and time. Organ pleating also uses the circle shape so that pleats start out narrow and end up wide at the bottom. The first edition of Blanche Payne's History of costume has a pair of bases from the 16thC that shows how this is achieved. Teddy recently sent a link to a painting of a man laying unconscious with his skirts open and showing the interior of the pleats. michaela _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jun 6 22:39:29 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA04167 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 2002 22:39:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g572X6C13503; Thu, 6 Jun 2002 20:33:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g572X3w11404; Thu, 6 Jun 2002 20:33:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g572WLw11212 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 2002 20:32:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dandy.net (pvil2005.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.237.5]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA30350 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 2002 22:30:23 -0400 Message-ID: <3D001A46.9C17061E@dandy.net> From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Assistance in A Search References: <32.27b5f532.2a28f803@aol.com> <3CF831DE.42D93DAF@dandy.net> <3CFDBD69.6043D306@erols.com> <3CFF6779.3679B977@dandy.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 22:28:22 -0400 Status: RO Sorry, Guys. this one was a private note that got incorrectly sent. D-oh! Mike T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 7 04:25:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA00420 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 04:25:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g578J5C25927; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 02:19:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g578J3w09815; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 02:19:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g578ISw09694 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 02:18:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KIN79YWEFK00GEJS@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 07 Jun 2002 09:21:33 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KIN79UPYV200FZ8N@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 07 Jun 2002 09:21:29 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Fri, 07 Jun 2002 09:15:46 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Fri, 07 Jun 2002 09:14:57 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.66) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Fri, 07 Jun 2002 09:14:48 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Usage of "the" In-reply-to: <200206061802.g56I2Jw06346@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <44688640828@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 09:14:48 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > I was simply offering an amusing anectdode about having my name > recognized due to its being known through the Net. And, much as I'd > like to be a Diva, I don't think anyone who's met me whould call me > unnaproachable. Not hardly. > > Now, if I start calling MYSELF "The Margo Anderson" You all have my > permission to slap me down for it, as often as needed. Absolutely! The same here. > Margo > (The Radiant One, She whose Light Shines on the Universe, whose > Magnifience....oh, never mind) Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, King of the Far-Isles, part-time Knave, Creature of air and darkness, and Hairdresser of Death apparently!) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 7 04:45:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA00472 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 04:45:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g578d3C26432; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 02:39:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g578d3w14237; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 02:39:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g578cfw14149 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 02:38:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A19477C0294; Fri, 07 Jun 2002 03:40:52 -0500 Message-ID: <015501c20dfd$3a52ff40$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <44688640828@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Usage of "the" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 04:27:57 -0400 Status: RO Teddy, I have seen a photo were you looked like a diva. <<<>>> But you looked damn good! Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 7 06:19:15 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA00817 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 06:19:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g57AD3C28485; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 04:13:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g57AD2w02729; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 04:13:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g57AC1w02544 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 04:12:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A77525D10232; Fri, 07 Jun 2002 05:14:13 -0500 Message-ID: <01c801c20e0a$0cd14ba0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] Peterson's Magaine 1882 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 05:59:44 -0400 Status: RO Does anyone have a year's book for 1882 of Peterson's magazine? I have all the color fashion plates for that year but am looking for someone who has the book with the dress descriptions for the plates. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 7 10:22:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01708 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 10:22:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g57EGXC07401; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 08:16:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g57EGNw03545; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 08:16:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from q4.quik.com (q4.quik.com [216.176.28.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g57EBaw01682 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 08:11:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from downstairs (ip067.vb.quik.com [216.176.5.67]) by q4.quik.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g57EBWH34078 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 07:11:33 -0700 From: "Anne Moeller" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] thermoplastic/Wonderflex Message-ID: <000101c20e2e$657beca0$696dfea9@downstairs> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0002_01C20E0C.DE6A4CA0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <10c.12e3a2b9.2a2faf1e@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 10:19:53 -0400 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C20E0C.DE6A4CA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for the info. Which do you think would work best for French hoods? I have been using poster board glued together and coated with craft glue. I would like something a bit more flexible so that I can put more curves into the back portion. Thanks again, Anne -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of MzScahlett@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 2:15 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] thermoplastic/Wonderflex In a message dated 6/4/2002 9:07:52 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ladyanne@quik.com writes: Oh dear, I am not sure what the difference is. I thought they were basically the same stuff with different names. I know the principle behind Friendly Plastic but have never used it. Which would be best for head dresses? Thanks, Anne They are basically the same thing. Two different manufacturers. I think Thermoplastic has been around longer, as that's what my connection uses at the local regional/professional theater in San Jose. Either is suitable for a headdress that you wish to be firm, lightweight and breathable. Emphasis on firm. The substance can be worked over and over again until the shape is perfect. It could be used anywhere you want something permanent that you'd ordinarly make of papier mache or similar method. angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com Theatrical Costume Design "The naked truth of it is, I have no shirt." Love's Labours Lost, V, ii - W. Shakespeare ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C20E0C.DE6A4CA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
Thanks=20 for the info.  Which do you think would work best for French = hoods?  I=20 have been using poster board glued together and coated with craft = glue.  I=20 would like something a bit more flexible so that I can put more curves = into the=20 back portion. 
Thanks=20 again, Anne
-----Original Message-----
From:=20 h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On = Behalf Of=20 MzScahlett@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 2:15=20 PM
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost]=20 thermoplastic/Wonderflex

In a = message dated=20 6/4/2002 9:07:52 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ladyanne@quik.com=20 writes:


 Oh dear, I am not sure what the difference is.  I = thought=20 they were basically the same stuff with different names.  I = know the=20 principle behind Friendly Plastic but have never used it.  = Which would=20 be best for head dresses?  Thanks, Anne


They are basically the same thing.  Two = different=20 manufacturers. I think Thermoplastic has been around longer, as that's = what my=20 connection uses at the local regional/professional theater in San = Jose. =20 Either is suitable for a headdress that you wish to be firm, = lightweight and=20 breathable.  Emphasis on firm.  The substance can be worked = over and=20 over again until the shape is perfect.  It could be used anywhere = you=20 want something permanent that you'd ordinarly make of papier mache or = similar=20 method.

angela
+++++
Angela F. Lazear
Cabbage Rose = Costumes=20
http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com
Theatrical Costume=20 Design

"The naked truth of it is, I have no shirt."
Love's = Labours=20 Lost, V, ii - W. = Shakespeare
3D"Compu-Zoo
 ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C20E0C.DE6A4CA0-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 7 11:22:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01902 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 11:22:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g57FG4C12047; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 09:16:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g57FG3w00283; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 09:16:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g57FFYw29943 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 09:15:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KINLU1R7XS017W83@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Fri, 07 Jun 2002 16:18:36 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KINLTXYPFC00CNH2@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Fri, 07 Jun 2002 16:18:31 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Fri, 07 Jun 2002 16:12:48 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Fri, 07 Jun 2002 16:12:18 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.66) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Fri, 07 Jun 2002 16:12:08 +0000 From: Teddy To: h-costume@net.indra.com Message-id: <44D7D4817B0@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] (H-COST) Braid for Saxon tunic Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 16:12:08 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO Hello folks, this is *way* out of my area.... A friend has asked me about braid suitable to trim a Saxon tunic. Don't hink it needs be hyper- accurate - just something that doesn't look glaringly wrong. Before anyone asks me to be more specific - that's about as specific as it gets - I think they're after something that will do for "generic" Saxon but I have no idea what that would look like. Can anyone point me at on-line pictures that will show the sort of thing (size/type of patterns etc) that they should be shopping for? Nicole? Anyone? Many thanks in advance Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 7 11:29:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01958 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 11:29:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g57FN3C12646; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 09:23:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g57FN3w03647; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 09:23:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g57FMYw03424 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 09:22:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup-63.214.117.39.dial1.boston1.level3.net ([63.214.117.39]) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17GLZR-0003Zs-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 07 Jun 2002 08:22:33 -0700 X-Sender: sheilabb@mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <44D7D4817B0@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: sheilabb@earthlink.net Subject: [h-cost] Searching for Annunciation Icon.... Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 11:21:35 -0400 Status: RO Hello, and this one is way out of MY area too... We are looking for an icon of the annunciation which *clearly* shows the Virgin Mary with a spindle in her hand. If anyone has a reference -- book, museum or web -- for this *specific* image, please let me know. If you have friends who have special knowledge of icons and can ask their help, we'd be grateful! Thanks! Sheila Beardslee Bosworth sheilabb@earthlink.net http://www.earlymusicboston.com /bemn for CALENDAR (New England) /brs/brs/ for Boston Recorder Society 29 Main Street, Acton MA 01720-3505 VOX 978/263.9926 FAX 978/263.2366 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 7 12:18:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA02184 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 12:18:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g57GC3C16989; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 10:12:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g57GC2w29900; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 10:12:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.lanset.com ([208.186.113.2]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g57GB2w29409 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 10:11:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lanset.com (unverified [208.187.245.7]) by mail2.lanset.com (Vircom SMTPRS 5.1.202) with ESMTP id for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 09:00:00 -0700 Message-ID: <3D00D94C.9030306@lanset.com> From: Lou Demas User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.2) Gecko/20010726 Netscape6/6.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Searching for Annunciation Icon.... References: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------040707010709080201030802" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 09:03:24 -0700 Status: RO --------------040707010709080201030802 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A search on Google for "icon Virgin Mary with spindle" found numerous sites with references to icons of the Virgin Mary with a spindle. See, for example, www.ikona.ru/gal/ann/ann_e.htm sheilabb@earthlink.net wrote: >Hello, and this one is way out of MY area too... > >We are looking for an icon of the annunciation which >*clearly* shows the Virgin Mary with a spindle in her >hand. > --------------040707010709080201030802 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A search on Google for "icon Virgin Mary with spindle" found numerous sites with references to icons of the Virgin Mary with a spindle. See, for example,   www.ikona.ru/gal/ann/ann_e.htm

sheilabb@earthlink.net wrote:
Hello, and this one is way out of MY area too...

We are looking for an icon of the annunciation which
*clearly* shows the Virgin Mary with a spindle in her
hand.

--------------040707010709080201030802-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 7 12:56:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA02340 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 12:56:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g57Go4C20685; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 10:50:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g57Go2w21375; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 10:50:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g57Gnlw21230 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 10:49:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) id g57GpMd95426 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 09:51:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200206071651.g57GpMd95426@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] thermoplastic/Wonderflex In-Reply-To: <000101c20e2e$657beca0$696dfea9@downstairs> "from Anne Moeller at Jun 7, 2002 10:19:53 am" To: h-costume@indra.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL82 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 09:51:22 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO regular buckram would work just fine for french hoods. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 7 12:58:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA02349 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 12:58:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g57Gq4C20908; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 10:52:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g57Gq3w22477; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 10:52:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from tecoma.mccc.edu (tecoma.mccc.edu [198.133.170.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g57Gpkw22353 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 10:51:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mccc.edu (th119-1.mccc.edu [207.8.248.196]) by tecoma.mccc.edu (8.10.2+Sun/8.11.4) with ESMTP id g57Gpei19929 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 12:51:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3D00E437.3FA9E705@mccc.edu> From: Kate Pinner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Peterson's Magaine 1882 References: <01c801c20e0a$0cd14ba0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 12:50:00 -0400 Status: RO I might...will look when I get home. Any month/dress in particular? Kate Penny Ladnier wrote: > Does anyone have a year's book for 1882 of Peterson's magazine? I have all > the color fashion plates for that year but am looking for someone who has > the book with the dress descriptions for the plates. > > Penny Ladnier > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > http://www.costumegallery.com > http://www.costumeclassroom.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 7 13:05:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02415 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 13:05:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g57Gx3C21473; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 10:59:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g57Gx2w26012; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 10:59:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from inet-mail3.oracle.com (inet-mail3.oracle.com [148.87.2.203]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g53GJEx24418 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 10:19:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from inet-mail3.oracle.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by inet-mail3.oracle.com (Switch-2.2.2/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id g53GHnX00589 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 09:17:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rgmgw4.us.oracle.com (rgmgw4.us.oracle.com [138.1.191.13]) by inet-mail3.oracle.com (Switch-2.2.2/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id g53GHmM00584 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 09:17:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bperry_pc.oracle.com (dhcp-4op9-4op10-east-130-35-175-38.us.oracle.com [130.35.175.38]) by rgmgw4.us.oracle.com (Switch-2.1.3/Switch-2.1.0) with ESMTP id g53GJ7F29946 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 10:19:07 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20020603091603.02a73720@gmmail.oraclecorp.com> X-Sender: betsy.perry@gmmail.oraclecorp.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Elizabeth Hanes Perry Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gloves and hat etiquette In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 09:19:28 -0700 Status: RO At 04:08 PM 6/3/2002 +0000, you wrote: >I've always found it weird that you kept your hat on at church... Do you >have to take it off the moment you walk into a house? I know it's that way >for men, but for women? Used to be, a lady wore her hat whenever she left the house. It stayed on in church (there's a Bible verse that says women should cover their hair in church) and at her friends' houses. (I think she removed it at work, if she worked.) She didn't wear a hat inside her own house. (The rules varied radically from period to period; I'm thinking the U.S. in the 20th century up through the 40s or 50s.) >And what about gloves? I guess you take them off when you eat? Yes, and to shake hands. With evening gloves, you unbuttoned them at the wrist and stuffed the hand part into the wrist at the dinner table. Be well, do good work, and keep in touch. - G. Keillor Betsy Hanes Perry betsy.perry@oracle.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 7 13:16:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02474 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 13:16:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g57HA2C22605; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 11:10:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g57HA2w02361; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 11:10:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g57H9jw02172 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 11:09:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (213-78-99-162.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.99.162]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AGY70369; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 18:09:50 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <00c401c20e47$24f38080$a2634ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <44D7D4817B0@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Subject: Re: [h-cost] (H-COST) Braid for Saxon tunic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 18:17:02 +0100 Status: RO Tablet weaving is correct see www.maering.co.uk there are examples of there. Bought braid looks aweful Mel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 7 13:25:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02616 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 13:25:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g57HJ5C23436; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 11:19:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g57HJ3w07378; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 11:19:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.10]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g57HIBw06929 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 11:18:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [132.236.139.158] ([132.236.139.158]) by postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29254 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 13:18:09 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <44D7D4817B0@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> To: h-costume@indra.com From: "M. Stewart" Subject: [h-cost] Re: [h-cost]Annunciation Icon & textile weaves Question Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 13:18:03 -0700 Status: RO Hi all... hmmmm spindles are going to be difficult.... Typically many 1450-1650 depictions of the Annunciation in Western art show the virgin reading - usually a devotional text, and strangely enough usually the passage that describes the annunciation. Two questions, you say "Icon" do you mean "genuine Eastern Orthodox - Russian - E. European ICON" or do you mean any representation or depiction? ALSO do you have a particular time frame in mind? When you tell me... I'll go looking through what I have on file. Historical textile Question... ; > Question to weavers and fabric gurus on the list... I'm looking for descriptions of weaves used in the 1450 to 1600 range for wool, twills in particular. Anywhere in Western, Central or Eastern Europe. Anyone know of a collection - or even one description on weave patterns described or found from that period? The earliest notebook I can find is from 1723 Kilbarchan, Scotland. sigh... hope to hear. Thanks, Mari Mari Stewart, Cornell University, Ithaca, NY Currently overrun with Alumni. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 7 13:31:15 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02678 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 13:31:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g57HP5C24068; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 11:25:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g57HP2w10526; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 11:25:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.10]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g57HOWw10223 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 11:24:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [132.236.139.158] ([132.236.139.158]) by postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA14047 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 13:24:30 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <44D7D4817B0@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> To: h-costume@indra.com From: "M. Stewart" Subject: Re: [h-cost] (H-COST) Braid for Saxon tunic Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 13:24:25 -0700 Status: RO Hi Teddy.... and all. A good place to start might be looking at inkle weaving pages on the web. This is a common method for applying and making braids and trims in the AS period. There are some very subtle and sophisticated patterns available. Short of that .... I'd vote for a simple geometric, checky, fretty, diamonds etc. Good luck. Mari >Hello folks, > >this is *way* out of my area.... A friend has asked me about braid >suitable to trim a Saxon tunic. Don't hink it needs be hyper- >accurate - just something that doesn't look glaringly wrong. > >Before anyone asks me to be more specific - that's about as >specific as it gets - I think they're after something that will do for >"generic" Saxon but I have no idea what that would look like. > >Can anyone point me at on-line pictures that will show the sort of >thing (size/type of patterns etc) that they should be shopping for? >Nicole? Anyone? > >Many thanks in advance > > > >Teddy Mari Stewart, Cornell University, Ithaca NY Currently overrun with Alumni _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 7 13:32:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02694 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 13:32:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g57HQ3C24138; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 11:26:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g57HQ2w11078; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 11:26:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r10.mx.aol.com (imo-r10.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.106]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g57HP6w10577 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 11:25:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo-r10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.157.f041e84 (3842) for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 13:24:51 -0400 (EDT) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Message-ID: <157.f041e84.2a324662@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] thermoplastic/Wonderflex To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_157.f041e84.2a324662_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10512 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 13:24:50 EDT Status: RO --part1_157.f041e84.2a324662_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Sorry for not answering your question directly, but from what I understand they are almost identical in nature in terms of use. So there wouldn't be one preferred over the other. I could be wrong, though, but that is the extent of my information. They are both a form of medium weight buckram that can be heat shaped but become solid when cooled. There may be an issue with wearing it in very high temperatures (hot days over 100) so if that is ever the case, you might not want to use this, but I'm not sure. The heating directions say hotter than that, and the only time I've ever had damage is when things made of Friendly Plastic are left say, on a car dashboard. FP isn't coated over buckram either, which probably keeps the melting down to a minimum. I haven't priced them yet, but Richard the Thread has Wonderflex, and probably both. I'd say spend the $40 on a sheet and give it a try. This is an amazingly adaptable technology for costumers. Why don't you give them a call as I'm sure their staff can answer your questions. Good luck! angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes Theatrical Costume Design www.cabbagerosecostumes.com "All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players. They have their exits and their entrances; and one man in his time plays many parts." W. Shakespeare In a message dated 6/7/2002 7:20:31 AM Pacific Daylight Time, ladyanne@quik.com writes: > Thanks for the info. Which do you think would work best for French hoods? > I have been using poster board glued together and coated with craft glue. > I would like something a bit more flexible so that I can put more curves > into the back portion. > Thanks again, Anne > --part1_157.f041e84.2a324662_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi,

Sorry for not answering your question directly, but from what I understand they are almost identical in nature in terms of use.  So there wouldn't be one preferred over the other.  I could be wrong, though, but that is the extent of my information.

They are both a form of medium weight buckram that can be heat shaped but become solid when cooled.  There may be an issue with wearing it in very high temperatures (hot days over 100) so if that is ever the case, you might not want to use this, but I'm not sure.  The heating directions say hotter than that, and the only time I've ever had damage is when things made of Friendly Plastic are left say, on a car dashboard.   FP isn't coated over buckram either, which probably keeps the melting down to a minimum.  I haven't priced them yet, but Richard the Thread has Wonderflex, and probably both. I'd say spend the $40 on a sheet and give it a try. This is an amazingly adaptable technology for costumers.  Why don't you give them a call as I'm sure their staff can answer your questions. Good luck!

angela
+++++
Angela F. Lazear
Cabbage Rose Costumes
Theatrical Costume Design
www.cabbagerosecostumes.com
"All the world's a stage,
and all the men and women merely players.
They have their exits and their entrances;
and one man in his time plays many parts."
W. Shakespeare
In a message dated 6/7/2002 7:20:31 AM Pacific Daylight Time, ladyanne@quik.com writes:


Thanks for the info.  Which do you think would work best for French hoods?  I have been using poster board glued together and coated with craft glue.  I would like something a bit more flexible so that I can put more curves into the back portion. 
Thanks again, Anne


 --part1_157.f041e84.2a324662_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 7 14:15:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA02985 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 14:15:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g57I93C28430; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 12:09:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g57I92w03775; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 12:09:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f205.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.205]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g57I8Kw03440 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 12:08:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 11:08:14 -0700 Received: from 65.58.54.167 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 07 Jun 2002 18:08:14 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.58.54.167] From: "Christianna Del oro" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Jun 2002 18:08:14.0865 (UTC) FILETIME=[4B04F810:01C20E4E] Subject: [h-cost] help!! period pattern #41 & #21 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 18:08:14 +0000 Status: RO

Hello Everyone

I'm trying to make a couple of new gowns.  Unfortunately I seem to have lost the last page(S) of both period patterns.  I have some of the historical notes and both material layout and requirements pages but don't have the last pages.

Since I am only a modestly skilled seamtress, I badly need the pages. If it was a regular commerical pattern I would sew it anyway but period patterns have  nasty surprizes :  ) and I don't have 9 yds of material to ruin.

I might have lost them moving or when I had boxes of books ruined in storage.

Please can someone scan the last 2? pages (this email addy does accept all files) or send me copies? I would very gratefull.

I did buy these patterns new, so I don't think this should violate copyright laws

And I have tried getting ahold of historically- yours with no sucess

Thanks for your time

Christianna


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_______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 7 14:20:16 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA03013 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 14:20:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g57IE7C29008; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 12:14:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g57IE7w06351; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 12:14:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web14001.mail.yahoo.com (web14001.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.92]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g57ID6w05810 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 12:13:06 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020607181305.52877.qmail@web14001.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.175.101.60] by web14001.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 07 Jun 2002 11:13:05 PDT From: Cin Subject: Re: [h-cost] Waltzing with Mr Strauss To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20020605175118.00a9ff00@mail.frys.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 11:13:05 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO --- Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > Nope. These folks waltzed like a drill team. > > >Do you mean the entry at Costume Con a few years back? That was all > >19thC (not exclusively Victorian, if I recall), done in denim . . . Are you thinking of S.W.A.T.? The Strauss Waltz Assault Team? The way I remember the tale from MasterSargeantMajorDomo George was that it started out as a defensive manouvre. Seems that the Social Daunce Irregulars (Pasadena?) was infested with inept dancers of the worst sort. The kind that dance too close to other pairs and step on others toes & ankles. Apparently, after one ball where the group bemoaned trod-upon feet, dirtied, shoes, torn socks and other disasters someone quipped that they needed Dance Police. "Police?", someone retorted, "No, we need a SWAT team". Thus the group was named. I saw the costumes at CC11 or 12 when CostumeCon was in SJ and at SDI (Social Daunce Irregulars). Desert Storm tan jungle camo bodices & tailcoats over jungle green skirts and trousers, respectively. Add accessories of suitable militaria in the Victorian mode and you pretty much have the idea. Note: SDI (Social Daunce Irregulars) is rather like Gaskell's Ball for those of you who know it. ===== --cin Cynthia hysteria95126@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 7 14:53:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA03208 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 14:53:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g57Il3C01992; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 12:47:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g57Il1w22952; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 12:47:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g57Ikhw22804 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 12:46:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup-63.214.94.101.dial1.boston1.level3.net ([63.214.94.101]) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17GOkw-0004y8-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 07 Jun 2002 11:46:42 -0700 X-Sender: sheilabb@mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <44D7D4817B0@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: sheilabb@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: [h-cost]Annunciation Icon & textile weaves Question Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 14:45:40 -0400 Status: RO Mari, thanks for this help... Cornell, I see .... Mr. B is a Cornell alum and was born and raised in Ithaca... >hmmmm spindles are going to be difficult.... Typically many 1450-1650 >depictions of the Annunciation in Western art show the virgin reading - >usually a devotional text, and strangely enough usually the passage that >describes the annunciation. NOT Western Art. Greek, Russian or Eastern orthodox. I've seen a couple in books at the museums in Paris, which I foolishly did not buy at the time. In addition to my own interest in H-costume, my DH Jonathan (Mr. B above) makes spinning wheels and drop spindles (you can see info on the other part of our life at www.journeywheel.com), and we've been *told* that most orthodox icons (yes, I mean Icons, but I'd guess that any depiction would do -- we found a Holy Family print with the BVM spinning, and Joseph doing a carpenterial putter with Himself helping out...) show the BVM spinning as an young maiden would be expected to do... As for particular time frame, I'll guess that 10-14th c would be most useful, but, as I said -- any references are gratefully accepted. >Historical textile Question... ; > > >Question to weavers and fabric gurus on the list... I'm looking for >descriptions of weaves used in the 1450 to 1600 range for wool, twills in >particular. Anywhere in Western, Central or Eastern Europe. Anyone >know of a collection - or even one description on weave patterns described >or found from that period? The earliest notebook I can find is from >1723 Kilbarchan, Scotland. > If you're a weaver yourself, have you asked on any of the weaving lists? Not sure who the scholars are on those, but maybe someone... Thank you so much... Sheila Beardslee Bosworth sheilabb@earthlink.net http://www.earlymusicboston.com /bemn for CALENDAR (New England) /brs/brs/ for Boston Recorder Society 29 Main Street, Acton MA 01720-3505 VOX 978/263.9926 FAX 978/263.2366 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 7 16:05:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA03504 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 16:05:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g57Jx5C08314; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 13:59:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g57Jx4w00203; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 13:59:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pageartists.com ([207.159.140.64]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g57Jw7w29575 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 13:58:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ravenxprt (pdx-ppp16.pop1.net [209.102.125.66]) by pageartists.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA24830 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 11:58:01 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <021501c20e5e$fa50a8e0$2dd9fea9@com> From: "Brenna" To: References: <44D7D4817B0@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Subject: [h-cost] Commercial pattern question Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 13:07:29 -0700 Status: RO I know it's been discussed here before by various folks but time has passed and I know new editions get updated/corrected so what I need to know is ..... What do folks (who've used them) think of the various Elizabethan-era (1550-1600) patterns that are currently available? I know there are a number of companies, both large and small, publishing them and everybody extolls the virtues of _their_ product (which is natural) but I need to know what the _users_ think. I've been looking at the wholesale websites trying to decide on whose patterns to carry at RenFaires and am just bewildered. My problem is that although I make clothing from this period, I don't use patterns! I cut to the body. (Hand me a pattern and I feel stifled, constrained...... I like the engineering aspect, the figuring-it-out part, the "Aha!" of discovery.) Soooooo, I'm looking for information on .... - the name of the pattern company, the pattern name/number - what you made from it as some of them are multiple-item patterns - understandability of instructions, pattern pieces, etc. - ease of use - ease of alteration to fit - historical accuracy of fit and appearance - historical basis/background docs - is it a revision of a previously-unworkable pattern - anything else you can think of If you have an on-line picture of what you made, I'd love to see ..... Input from novice sewers is greatly appreciated here as well as from experienced ones. I (and my customers) appreciate any and all input that you can make. I don't know if responses should be posted here (although others may be interested) but they can be sent to me privately at brenna@robewarriors.com Thanking you in advance, Brenna Sharp B Sharp Fabrics Portland, OR USA supplying the living history re-enactor (and hopefully, RenFaire and demo visitors who get inspired ...) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 7 16:37:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA03600 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 16:37:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g57KV4C11059; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 14:31:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g57KV2w16821; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 14:31:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f65.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.65]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g57KUrw16732 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 14:30:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 13:30:48 -0700 Received: from 207.137.181.62 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 07 Jun 2002 20:30:48 GMT X-Originating-IP: [207.137.181.62] From: "Maggie Secara" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Commercial pattern question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Jun 2002 20:30:48.0290 (UTC) FILETIME=[35420C20:01C20E62] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 13:30:48 -0700 Status: RO THE best Elizabethan pattern I've seen is Margo Anderson's "Elizabethan Lady's Wardrobe". Yes, THE Margo Anderson. ;-) It's in 3 packages: underpinnings, the gown itself, (forepart, skirt, bodice, sleeves, all with variations) and accessories. It's aimed at the intermediate sewer, but beginners have been picking it up with success as well. Among its many virtues is that it comes in US Ladies sizes 2-30, with no overlapping pattern lines. And it is *designed* to be customized. Directions are given for how to manage (for example) your size 12 shoulders with your size 18 waist, and so on. More than that, each package comes with a complete "users guide", filled with not only cutting and sewing directions and trim recommendations, but DOCUMENTATION and a bibliography. Where Margo had to make a choice, she tells you what the options were, based on what we know, and what she chose. At the moment, only ladies' court costume is available, but there the Gentlemen's Wardrobe is being developed even as we speak, and there are plans for others as well. Check out http://www.margospatterns.com/ And oh yes, there's even a yahoo group for margo's users, so we can share tips and tricks and make notes and post pics of Finished Items.;-0 Just a happy user. MaggiRos >From: "Brenna" >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: >Subject: [h-cost] Commercial pattern question >Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 13:07:29 -0700 > >I know it's been discussed here before by various folks but time has passed >and I know new editions get updated/corrected so what I need to know is >..... > >What do folks (who've used them) think of the various Elizabethan-era >(1550-1600) patterns that are currently available? > >I know there are a number of companies, both large and small, publishing >them and everybody extolls the virtues of _their_ product (which is >natural) >but I need to know what the _users_ think. > >I've been looking at the wholesale websites trying to decide on whose >patterns to carry at RenFaires and am just bewildered. My problem is that >although I make clothing from this period, I don't use patterns! I cut to >the body. (Hand me a pattern and I feel stifled, constrained...... I like >the engineering aspect, the figuring-it-out part, the "Aha!" of discovery.) > >Soooooo, I'm looking for information on .... > - the name of the pattern company, the pattern name/number > - what you made from it as some of them are multiple-item patterns > - understandability of instructions, pattern pieces, etc. > - ease of use > - ease of alteration to fit > - historical accuracy of fit and appearance > - historical basis/background docs > - is it a revision of a previously-unworkable pattern > - anything else you can think of >If you have an on-line picture of what you made, I'd love to see ..... > >Input from novice sewers is greatly appreciated here as well as from >experienced ones. > >I (and my customers) appreciate any and all input that you can make. I >don't know if responses should be posted here (although others may be >interested) but they can be sent to me privately at brenna@robewarriors.com > > >Thanking you in advance, >Brenna Sharp >B Sharp Fabrics >Portland, OR USA >supplying the living history re-enactor > (and hopefully, RenFaire and demo visitors who get inspired ...) > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 7 17:10:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA03721 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 17:10:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g57L45C13885; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 15:04:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g57L41w04441; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 15:04:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g57L3Vw04151 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 15:03:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comcast.net (pcp670884pcs.indpnd01.mo.comcast.net [68.34.234.170]) by mtaout06.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.8 (built May 13 2002)) with ESMTP id <0GXC006SVT5PEC@mtaout06.icomcast.net> for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Fri, 07 Jun 2002 17:03:25 -0400 (EDT) From: "Linda J. Thompson" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Usage of "the" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Message-id: <3D01200A.507@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 16:05:14 -0500 Status: RO > Margo > (The Radiant One, She whose Light Shines on the Universe, whose > Magnifience....oh, never mind) > "One Tough Costumer" oooh, that is so much better than being called "the" costume nazi..... I and Catherine had the moniker for way to many years! -- Linda Thompson Visit www.seams-to-be.com where Attitude is Everything _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 7 17:12:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA03729 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 17:12:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g57L6BC14090; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 15:06:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g57L6Bw05608; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 15:06:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ns.misc.com (h-66-134-203-2.SNVACAID.covad.net [66.134.203.2]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g57L4xw04992 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 15:05:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from misc.com (mac.misc.com [192.168.254.109]) by ns.misc.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA06190 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 14:05:34 -0700 Message-ID: <3D012106.FA2E5665@misc.com> From: Theresa Eacker X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Commercial pattern question References: <44D7D4817B0@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> <021501c20e5e$fa50a8e0$2dd9fea9@com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 14:09:25 -0700 Status: RO To Brenna- A great many of your questions are answered on the Greater Bay Area's Great Pattern Review site: http://www.gbacg.org/Patterns/index.html Margo's patterns aren't covered, but they have a considerable amount of feedback within the community already. There are pictures of results, including a pair in PVC Elizabethans: totally accurate look in totally shiny PVC!!!! Enjoy, Theresa Eacker Brenna wrote:(Pruning ensues) > What do folks (who've used them) think of the various Elizabethan-era > (1550-1600) patterns that are currently available? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 7 17:56:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA03930 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 17:56:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g57Lo5C17684; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 15:50:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g57Lo2w27237; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 15:50:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g57Ln8w26807 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 15:49:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id AAD931AE0206; Fri, 07 Jun 2002 16:51:21 -0500 Message-ID: <002701c20e6c$b04d2da0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <01c801c20e0a$0cd14ba0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> <3D00E437.3FA9E705@mccc.edu> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Peterson's Magaine 1882 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 17:45:49 -0400 Status: RO Kate, Thank you for checking. I think I have found someone who has the entire book. But if she is missing issues I will get in touch with you. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate Pinner" To: Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 12:50 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Peterson's Magaine 1882 > I might...will look when I get home. Any month/dress in particular? > Kate > > Penny Ladnier wrote: > > > Does anyone have a year's book for 1882 of Peterson's magazine? I have all > > the color fashion plates for that year but am looking for someone who has > > the book with the dress descriptions for the plates. > > > > Penny Ladnier > > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > > http://www.costumegallery.com > > http://www.costumeclassroom.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 7 18:47:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA04070 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 18:47:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g57Mf2C21377; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 16:41:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g57Mf1w21117; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 16:41:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rapidash.its.hawaii.edu (rapidash.its.hawaii.edu [128.171.94.83]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g57Meow21052 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 16:40:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail.hawaii.edu by mail.hawaii.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.4 (built Apr 12 2002)) id <0GXC00F01XCT2A@mail.hawaii.edu>; Fri, 07 Jun 2002 12:40:44 -1000 (HST) Received: from uhunix2 (uhunix2.its.hawaii.edu [128.171.44.7]) by mail.hawaii.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.4 (built Apr 12 2002)) with ESMTP id <0GXC00CLSXNSHG@mail.hawaii.edu>; Fri, 07 Jun 2002 12:40:40 -1000 (HST) From: Jan McEwen Subject: Re: [h-cost] Searching for Annunciation Icon X-X-Sender: To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 12:40:40 -1000 (HST) Status: RO Sheila, I forwarded your request to an artist friend; this is her reply. Jan McEwen SCA: Catriona Stewart ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Ouspensky, Leonid & Lossky, Vladimir; _The Meaning of Icons_;St. Vladimir's Seminary Press; Crestwood, NY, 1989; p. 171 (indicated on p. 172 as Russian, 15th c. Moscow School, Icon Museum, Recklinghausen) Also see: http://www.culture.gr/2/21/218/218ab/e218ab58.html http://english.ucsb.edu/faculty/pfumer/courses/carousel8/slide07.html http://www.ohrid.org.mk/eng/ikoni/4.htm http://www.goarch.org/access/resources/clipart/annunciation1.html http://www.hermitagemuseum.org/html_En/03/hm3_6_8b.html http://www.ugkc.lviv.ua/Gallery/Room6.html(scroll down to #22 and click on the image) Contemporary renderings at http://www.stgabriel.com/holypix.html (scroll down) http://icons.virtualave.net/diptih.html http://www.comeandseeicons.com/phf07.htm I'm sure there are more, but that should do to go on for now. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 7 21:18:19 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA04483 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 21:18:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g581CAC28473; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 19:12:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g581C2w13307; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 19:12:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f221.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.221]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g581BVw13157 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 19:11:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 18:11:26 -0700 Received: from 65.57.27.177 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 08 Jun 2002 01:11:26 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.57.27.177] From: "Christianna Del oro" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Jun 2002 01:11:26.0349 (UTC) FILETIME=[6985F3D0:01C20E89] Subject: [h-cost] help!!! period patterns 21 & 41 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 08 Jun 2002 01:11:26 +0000 Status: RO



Hello Everyone

I'm working on a new gown  period pattern # 41 and i can't seem to find the last page(s)of either pattern 21 or 41.  I might have lost while moving, or when boxes of hard earned books got ruined in storage.

Since I'm only a middling seamstress I badly need those pages.  If  the pattern was a commercial pattern I probably would go ahead and sew it but since p. patterns sometimes have nasty surprises.  I would rather have the instructions.

I have the material layout and requirement pages of both patterns, I need what instructions come next.

 Can someone please privately email me a scan or copy of the instructions?  This email account accepts all files.  I would be very gratefull.

I tried to contact the distributor of period patterns historically yours and couldn't find their new site.  I already own the patterns so I don't  think this would violate any copyright laws.

Thanks for your time

Christianna


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_______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 7 21:24:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA04510 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 21:24:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g581I2C28674; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 19:18:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g581I2w14906; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 19:18:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from barry.mail.mindspring.net (barry.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.25]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g581Hrw14847 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 19:17:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 1cust218.tnt7.st-louis.mo.da.uu.net ([65.229.120.218] helo=hppav) by barry.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17GUrW-0001EJ-00 for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Fri, 07 Jun 2002 21:17:51 -0400 Message-ID: <009401c20e8a$6b57ff40$da78e541@hppav> From: "Genie" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Subject: [h-cost] Waltzing with Mr Strauss Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 20:18:37 -0500 Status: RO No, that was A Waltz Thru Time With Mr.Strauss of which I was the hooped Victorian. This was the West Coast Costumers Guild members Kate and Bridget. I think they wore them at one of the Friday nite meet and greet' I forget CC. Genie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 7 21:28:10 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA04538 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 21:28:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g581M5C28814; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 19:22:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g581M5w15905; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 19:22:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g581L6w15629 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 19:21:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a230.in-tch.com [66.62.107.30]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g5817sv09971 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 19:07:54 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3D015D49.DB4D2962@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] help!!! period patterns 21 & 41 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 19:26:33 -0600 Status: RO Which ones are they? I've got a bunch of 'em in my pattern tub, but they're kept in manila envelopes, and I just write "women's italian ren," or something similar on the envelope. --sue Christianna Del oro wrote: > > Hello Everyone > > I'm working on a new gown period pattern # 41 and i can't seem to > find the last page(s)of either pattern 21 or 41. I might have lost > while moving, or when boxes of hard earned books got ruined in > storage. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 7 21:28:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA04542 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 21:28:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g581M2C28799; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 19:22:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g581M1w15874; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 19:22:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from barry.mail.mindspring.net (barry.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.25]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g581L1w15608 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 19:21:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 1cust218.tnt7.st-louis.mo.da.uu.net ([65.229.120.218] helo=hppav) by barry.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17GUuZ-0004dA-00 for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Fri, 07 Jun 2002 21:21:00 -0400 Message-ID: <009c01c20e8a$dbf5f400$da78e541@hppav> From: "Genie" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Subject: [h-cost] Waltzing with Mr Strauss Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 20:21:46 -0500 Status: RO Yes, thats the one. Genie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 7 22:21:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA04708 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 22:21:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g582F6C01042; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 20:15:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g582F4w29282; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 20:15:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp1.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net (smtp1.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net [206.210.69.141]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g582Emw29184 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 20:14:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 24524 invoked from network); 8 Jun 2002 02:14:46 -0000 Received: from 206-105-173-157.inetone.net (HELO inetone.net) (206.105.173.157) by smtp1.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net with SMTP; 8 Jun 2002 02:14:46 -0000 Message-ID: <3D016A62.665B21C6@inetone.net> From: Dhannti X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Commercial pattern question References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 22:22:26 -0400 Status: RO Maggie Secara wrote: > > THE best Elizabethan pattern I've seen is Margo Anderson's "Elizabethan > Lady's Wardrobe". Yes, THE Margo Anderson. ;-) > > It's in 3 packages: underpinnings, the gown itself, (forepart, skirt, > bodice, sleeves, all with variations) and accessories. It's aimed at the > intermediate sewer, but beginners have been picking it up with success as > well. Among its many virtues is that it comes in US Ladies sizes 2-30, with > no overlapping pattern lines. And it is *designed* to be customized. > Directions are given for how to manage (for example) your size 12 shoulders > with your size 18 waist, and so on. > > More than that, each package comes with a complete "users guide", filled > with not only cutting and sewing directions and trim recommendations, but > DOCUMENTATION and a bibliography. Where Margo had to make a choice, she > tells you what the options were, based on what we know, and what she chose. I can only add that I am novice when it comes to sewing but Margo's Pattern is the easiest to follow. I have patterns from the big three plus,Alter Years, Period Patterns, Wingeo, Fantasy Fashions, and the Costume Connection. Margo's pattern for Elizabethian Women beats them all hands down for some one like me. I can just about show you everything I have made on my web site. Margo's is still the best all a around for ease of use, Ease in alteration, and historically accurate. Email me and I will give you my site url. You'll be able to see what a novice can do with the right pattern. Diana _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 7 22:29:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA04722 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 22:29:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g582N2C01413; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 20:23:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g582N1w01349; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 20:23:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from q4.quik.com (q4.quik.com [216.176.28.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g582Muw01325 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 20:22:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from downstairs (ip106.vb.quik.com [216.176.5.106]) by q4.quik.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g582Mso374314 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 19:22:54 -0700 From: "Anne Moeller" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] thermoplastic/Wonderflex Message-ID: <000001c20e94$92169f60$696dfea9@downstairs> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C20E73.0B04FF60" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <157.f041e84.2a324662@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 22:31:17 -0400 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C20E73.0B04FF60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Will do and thanks for the help. Anne spend the $40 on a sheet and give it a try. This is an amazingly adaptable technology for costumers. Why don't you give them a call as I'm sure their staff can answer your questions. Good luck! angela +++++ ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C20E73.0B04FF60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
Will=20 do and thanks for the help.  Anne
spend the $40 = on a sheet=20 and give it a try. This is an amazingly adaptable technology for=20 costumers.  Why don't you give them a call as I'm sure their = staff can=20 answer your questions. Good = luck!

angela
+++++

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 ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C20E73.0B04FF60-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 7 22:58:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA04898 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 22:58:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g582q3C02474; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 20:52:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g582q2w08591; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 20:52:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g582pvw08564 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 20:51:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [136.152.196.126] (as3-4-140.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.126]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.10.2) with ESMTP id g582pu809473 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 19:51:56 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Searching for Annunciation Icon.... Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 19:22:50 -0700 Status: RO At 11:21 AM -0400 6/7/02, sheilabb@earthlink.net wrote: >Hello, and this one is way out of MY area too... > >We are looking for an icon of the annunciation which >*clearly* shows the Virgin Mary with a spindle in her >hand. > >If anyone has a reference -- book, museum or web >-- for this *specific* image, please let me know. > >If you have friends who have special knowledge of >icons and can ask their help, we'd be grateful! You may find what you're looking for in the article: Wyss, Robert L.. 1973. "Handarbeiten der Maria" in: Stettler, Michael & Lembe. 1973. Artes Minores: Dank an Werner Abegg. Verlag Stampfli & Cie Ag., Bern. ISBN 3-7272-9200-8 (pp.113-188) This is a study of images of Mary doing various types of handwork, including a number of images of spinning, although not all in the context of the Annunciation. I'm also not sure that any of them are "icons" in the more specific sense of the word. But if you can get your hands on the article, you'll probably be the best at figuring out whether any of them fit your needs. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 7 23:14:19 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA04954 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 23:14:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g58382C03097; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 21:08:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g58381w12637; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 21:08:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f258.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.133]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5837ww12619 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 21:07:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 20:07:53 -0700 Received: from 64.154.126.18 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 08 Jun 2002 03:07:52 GMT X-Originating-IP: [64.154.126.18] From: "Christianna Del oro" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] help!!! period patterns 21 & 41 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Jun 2002 03:07:53.0244 (UTC) FILETIME=[AE0985C0:01C20E99] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 08 Jun 2002 03:07:52 +0000 Status: RO



>From: Sue Clemenger
>Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com
>To: h-costume@indra.com
>Subject: Re: [h-cost] help!!! period patterns 21 & 41
>Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 19:26:33 -0600
>
>Which ones are they? I've got a bunch of 'em in my pattern tub, but
>they're kept in manila envelopes, and I just write "women's italian
>ren," or something similar on the envelope.
>--sue

>

Hi   Sue

 

They are mediaeval miscallanea period patterns:
 
 
#21 is  Cotehardies & Sideless Surcoat  
 
14th & 15th c.  sizes 6 -20 
 
 
#41  is Italian Renaissance Gowns  
 
 C 1470 - 1505  sizes 8 - 18
 
 
If you have them that would BE GREAT !!!
If you need any more info  I will probably checking my email till 2:00 am
 
Thanks a bunch
 
christianna
 
 
 

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_______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 7 23:52:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA05035 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 23:52:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g583k5C04530; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 21:46:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g583k2w21734; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 21:46:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g583jjw21616 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 21:45:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup-63.214.114.253.dial1.boston1.level3.net ([63.214.114.253]) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17GXAe-0003CN-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 07 Jun 2002 20:45:44 -0700 X-Sender: sheilabb@mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: sheilabb@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [h-cost] Searching for Annunciation Icon Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 23:44:38 -0400 Status: RO Excellent, Jan -- thank your friend, please -- we'll check them all out! Sheila B >I forwarded your request to an artist friend; this is her reply. > >Jan McEwen >SCA: Catriona Stewart > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- > >Ouspensky, Leonid & Lossky, Vladimir; _The Meaning of Icons_;St. >Vladimir's Seminary Press; Crestwood, NY, 1989; p. 171 (indicated on >p. 172 as Russian, 15th c. Moscow School, Icon Museum, Recklinghausen) > >Also see: >http://www.culture.gr/2/21/218/218ab/e218ab58.html >http://english.ucsb.edu/faculty/pfumer/courses/carousel8/slide07.html >http://www.ohrid.org.mk/eng/ikoni/4.htm >http://www.goarch.org/access/resources/clipart/annunciation1.html >http://www.hermitagemuseum.org/html_En/03/hm3_6_8b.html >http://www.ugkc.lviv.ua/Gallery/Room6.html(scroll down to #22 and >click on the image) > >Contemporary renderings at >http://www.stgabriel.com/holypix.html (scroll down) >http://icons.virtualave.net/diptih.html >http://www.comeandseeicons.com/phf07.htm > >I'm sure there are more, but that should do to go on for now. > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jun 8 00:44:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA05158 for ; Sat, 8 Jun 2002 00:44:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g584c6C06444; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 22:38:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g584c4w04663; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 22:38:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from q4.quik.com (q4.quik.com [216.176.28.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g584bjw04565 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 22:37:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from downstairs (ip106.vb.quik.com [216.176.5.106]) by q4.quik.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g584bio315976 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 21:37:44 -0700 From: "Anne Moeller" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Commercial pattern question Message-ID: <001201c20ea7$2ff1d3a0$696dfea9@downstairs> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3D012106.FA2E5665@misc.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2002 00:44:33 -0400 Status: RO OK, just where are those PVC Elizabethans? -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of Theresa Eacker Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 5:09 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Commercial pattern question To Brenna- A great many of your questions are answered on the Greater Bay Area's Great Pattern Review site: http://www.gbacg.org/Patterns/index.html Margo's patterns aren't covered, but they have a considerable amount of feedback within the community already. There are pictures of results, including a pair in PVC Elizabethans: totally accurate look in totally shiny PVC!!!! Enjoy, Theresa Eacker Brenna wrote:(Pruning ensues) > What do folks (who've used them) think of the various Elizabethan-era > (1550-1600) patterns that are currently available? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jun 8 01:50:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA05312 for ; Sat, 8 Jun 2002 01:50:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g585i3C08198; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 23:44:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g585i2w19248; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 23:44:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hall.mail.mindspring.net (hall.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.60]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g585how19203 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 23:43:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ar-010nvlvegp123.dialsprint.net ([63.178.206.187] helo=[0019381808]) by hall.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17GZ0i-0005rS-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 08 Jun 2002 01:43:42 -0400 From: "Katherine" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [h-cost] Commercial pattern question Message-ID: <3D0137B3.32753.1546E4C@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <001201c20ea7$2ff1d3a0$696dfea9@downstairs> References: <3D012106.FA2E5665@misc.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: kcg@sprynet.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 22:46:11 -0700 Status: RO They're under Simplicity in the Great Patten Review. It's costume 8881, the Shakespeare in Love dress. Enjoy! Katherine On 8 Jun 2002, at 0:44, Anne Moeller wrote: > OK, just where are those PVC Elizabethans? > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On > Behalf Of Theresa Eacker > Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 5:09 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Commercial pattern question > > > To Brenna- > > A great many of your questions are answered on the Greater Bay Area's > Great Pattern Review site: > > http://www.gbacg.org/Patterns/index.html > > Margo's patterns aren't covered, but they have a considerable amount of > feedback within the community already. > > There are pictures of results, including a pair in PVC Elizabethans: > totally accurate look in totally shiny PVC!!!! > > Enjoy, > > Theresa Eacker > > Brenna wrote:(Pruning ensues) > > > What do folks (who've used them) think of the various Elizabethan-era > > (1550-1600) patterns that are currently available? > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jun 8 01:57:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA05344 for ; Sat, 8 Jun 2002 01:57:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g585p2C08406; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 23:51:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g585p1w20740; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 23:51:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g585oUw20588 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 23:50:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) id XAA01391 for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 23:09:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200206080609.XAA01391@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@net.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] PVC Elizabethans Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 23:09:47 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO Actually, they're latex. I thought so from the photos, then I found it in the text. Latex clings to the body much more than PVC. It's partway down the Simplicity pattern review page: http://www.gbacg.org/Patterns/simplicity.htm Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jun 8 02:21:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA00843 for ; Sat, 8 Jun 2002 02:21:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g586F6C09024; Sat, 8 Jun 2002 00:15:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g586F3w25887; Sat, 8 Jun 2002 00:15:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g586Ebw25746 for ; Sat, 8 Jun 2002 00:14:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A15239870258; Sat, 08 Jun 2002 01:16:50 -0500 Message-ID: <00c501c20eb3$4b42d080$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] Developing a Class Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2002 02:11:13 -0400 Status: RO Feedback needed: We have a new instructor who is coming aboard at the Costume Classroom. He is a master pattern drafter for a NYC couture designer. On the side, he runs his own couture business. He specializes in making those beautiful 1950s ball gowns. He can make them either authentic or with modern adaptations. For an example of type of 50s ball gowns go to http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2109250887 We are going to offer this as a class. Because this would involve making a gown and documenting making the gown, we would like some feedback on what people would be interested in learning in the class. Please answer the questions below: 1. Would you be interested in making an authentic '50s gown or a gown based on the 1950s and adapted for modern fashion. 2. Do you want to use period dressmaking techniques or current day methods? 3. Would you be interested in taking a class to make a 1950s ball gown? 4. What level of sewing experience do you have? 5. Would you want to learn how to make a pattern or purchase a ready made pattern? 6. Would you be interested in learning to make a gown from a photo or illustration? Please email me your response personally at penny@costumegallery.com Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jun 8 02:55:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA00912 for ; Sat, 8 Jun 2002 02:55:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g586n5C09815; Sat, 8 Jun 2002 00:49:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g586n2w02844; Sat, 8 Jun 2002 00:49:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g586mTw02731 for ; Sat, 8 Jun 2002 00:48:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A944294E021A; Sat, 08 Jun 2002 01:50:44 -0500 Message-ID: <012b01c20eb8$05224ae0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] Wrong Address Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2002 02:45:03 -0400 Status: RO I am sorry I sent out the wrong URL for the 50s ball gown. Her it is http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2109250887 Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jun 8 12:15:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA06867 for ; Sat, 8 Jun 2002 12:15:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g58G99C23664; Sat, 8 Jun 2002 10:09:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g58G92w22310; Sat, 8 Jun 2002 10:09:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g58G8Cw22131 for ; Sat, 8 Jun 2002 10:08:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m250.in-tch.com [216.166.191.250]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g58Fsqv25733 for ; Sat, 8 Jun 2002 09:54:52 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3D022D2B.C86D4F26@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] help!!! period patterns 21 & 41 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 08 Jun 2002 10:13:31 -0600 Status: RO Hi. I know I've got the ItalianRen gown one (although it's in bad shape ), and will check on the cotehardie/surcoat one. --sue Christianna Del oro wrote: > > They are mediaeval miscallanea period patterns: > > > #21 is Cotehardies & Sideless Surcoat > > 14th & 15th c. sizes 6 -20 > > > #41 is Italian Renaissance Gowns > > C 1470 - 1505 sizes 8 - 18 > > > If you have them that would BE GREAT !!! > If you need any more info I will probably checking my email till 2:00 > am > > Thanks a bunch > > christianna _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jun 8 12:27:59 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA06907 for ; Sat, 8 Jun 2002 12:27:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g58GM3C24125; Sat, 8 Jun 2002 10:22:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g58GM2w25119; Sat, 8 Jun 2002 10:22:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from q4.quik.com (q4.quik.com [216.176.28.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g58GKKw24699 for ; Sat, 8 Jun 2002 10:20:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from downstairs (ip044.vb.quik.com [216.176.5.44]) by q4.quik.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g58GKJ6147060 for ; Sat, 8 Jun 2002 09:20:19 -0700 From: "Anne Moeller" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] help!!! period patterns 21 & 41 Message-ID: <000c01c20f09$8e172900$696dfea9@downstairs> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 In-reply-to: <3D022D2B.C86D4F26@in-tch.com> Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2002 12:28:41 -0400 Status: RO I tried to send a message directly to your email address but I am not sure it got there. Anyway, I have both patterns and can get the pages you need. Let me know if you still want them. I am not sure about scanning but I can definitely Xerox and mail. Anne -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of Sue Clemenger Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2002 12:14 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] help!!! period patterns 21 & 41 Hi. I know I've got the ItalianRen gown one (although it's in bad shape ), and will check on the cotehardie/surcoat one. --sue Christianna Del oro wrote: > > They are mediaeval miscallanea period patterns: > > > #21 is Cotehardies & Sideless Surcoat > > 14th & 15th c. sizes 6 -20 > > > #41 is Italian Renaissance Gowns > > C 1470 - 1505 sizes 8 - 18 > > > If you have them that would BE GREAT !!! > If you need any more info I will probably checking my email till 2:00 > am > > Thanks a bunch > > christianna _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jun 8 13:03:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA07045 for ; Sat, 8 Jun 2002 13:03:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g58Gw2C00336; Sat, 8 Jun 2002 10:58:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g58Gw1w07276; Sat, 8 Jun 2002 10:58:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r07.mx.aol.com (imo-r07.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.103]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g58Gv2w06806 for ; Sat, 8 Jun 2002 10:57:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo-r07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.e5.19195eed (4328) for ; Sat, 8 Jun 2002 12:56:50 -0400 (EDT) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Message-ID: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Commercial pattern question To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_e5.19195eed.2a339152_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10509 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2002 12:56:50 EDT Status: RO --part1_e5.19195eed.2a339152_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/7/2002 1:31:42 PM Pacific Daylight Time, maggiros@hotmail.com writes: > THE best Elizabethan pattern I've seen is Margo Anderson's "Elizabethan > Lady's Wardrobe". Yes, THE Margo Anderson. ;-) > My venue is theatrical costumes, so authenticity (in construction anyway) isn't nearly as important to me as ease and the ability to make the garments, and make as many sizes from one pattern. Margo thought of simply EVERYTHING... I have used them and I love them. Margo's patterns are both authentic and easy to use/follow. They are well documented and fun because they are well thought out. I must admit I am an experienced seamstress, but I recognize impediments to ease of use, and none were encountered here. I doubt your Renn Faire clients would be anything less than amazed and thrilled. angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes Theatrical Costume Design www.cabbagerosecostumes.com "All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players. They have their exits and their entrances; and one man in his time plays many parts." W. Shakespeare --part1_e5.19195eed.2a339152_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/7/2002 1:31:42 PM Pacific Daylight Time, maggiros@hotmail.com writes:


THE best Elizabethan pattern I've seen is Margo Anderson's "Elizabethan
Lady's Wardrobe".  Yes, THE Margo Anderson. ;-)


My venue is theatrical costumes, so authenticity (in construction anyway) isn't nearly as important to me as ease and the ability to make the garments, and make as many sizes from one pattern. Margo thought of simply EVERYTHING...  I have used them and I love them.  Margo's patterns are both authentic and easy to use/follow. They are well documented and fun because they are well thought out.  I must admit I am an experienced seamstress, but I recognize impediments to ease of use, and none were encountered here.  I doubt your Renn Faire clients would be anything less than amazed and thrilled.

angela
+++++
Angela F. Lazear
Cabbage Rose Costumes
Theatrical Costume Design
www.cabbagerosecostumes.com
"All the world's a stage,
and all the men and women merely players.
They have their exits and their entrances;
and one man in his time plays many parts."
W. Shakespeare --part1_e5.19195eed.2a339152_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jun 8 17:38:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA08188 for ; Sat, 8 Jun 2002 17:38:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g58LW6C28010; Sat, 8 Jun 2002 15:32:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g58LW2w24352; Sat, 8 Jun 2002 15:32:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hirogen.kabelfoon.nl (hirogen.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.69]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g58LVZw24194 for ; Sat, 8 Jun 2002 15:31:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-fp02-013.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.121.13]) by hirogen.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id B41927D4B for ; Sat, 8 Jun 2002 23:31:32 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3D0277B5.6030303@kabelfoon.nl> From: Deredere & Owen Iskander User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011128 Netscape6/6.2.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Civil war Simplicity 9761/9769/9764 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 08 Jun 2002 23:31:33 +0200 Status: RO Hi, I just bought the Civil war Simplicity 9761/9769/9764 patterns and I was qurious if someone alredy used these patterns. Are they accurate? I don't now anything aboud civil warr dresses. But I fell in love with diss pattern. Greetings, Deredere _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jun 8 19:38:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA10815 for ; Sat, 8 Jun 2002 19:38:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g58NX3C03195; Sat, 8 Jun 2002 17:33:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g58NX1w22597; Sat, 8 Jun 2002 17:33:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g58NWXw22489 for ; Sat, 8 Jun 2002 17:32:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.35.247]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GXE00IRLUQ7G1@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 08 Jun 2002 16:32:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Civil war Simplicity 9761/9769/9764 In-reply-to: <3D0277B5.6030303@kabelfoon.nl> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020608162052.00dd42b0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 08 Jun 2002 16:32:25 -0700 Status: RO >I just bought the Civil war Simplicity 9761/9769/9764 patterns and I was >curious if someone already used these patterns. >Are they accurate? I don't know anything about civil war dresses. I saw 9761 made up several times by the female members of a group at Dickens' Fair last year. The pattern was designed to only fit over a corset, and these women were all wearing corsets when I saw them. Each one of them had changed the pattern so they wouldn't all have the same dress. They said the pattern was OK to work with, but they had to do the fittings, they couldn't just make the dresses without fittings. None of them had anything bad to say about the pattern, and I expect I would have heard if there was anything really bad about it. My only objection was that the pattern took so much fabric, and only wanted silk. I think I can get a day bodice and an evening bodice out of that much fabric, and I won't be using silk. But I will lay mine out differently than they say to do it, and will do different sleeves. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jun 9 00:33:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA17355 for ; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 00:33:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g594R7C13060; Sat, 8 Jun 2002 22:27:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g594R2w26283; Sat, 8 Jun 2002 22:27:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g594Pxw26061 for ; Sat, 8 Jun 2002 22:25:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.35.247]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GXF00HDN8BADY@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 08 Jun 2002 21:25:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows In-reply-to: <3D0277B5.6030303@kabelfoon.nl> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020608210356.00d26bb0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Simplicity 9769/9764 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 08 Jun 2002 21:15:23 -0700 Status: RO >I just bought the Civil war Simplicity 9761/9769/9764 patterns I own 9761, the dress with the flounces, 7215, the second pattern with a corset, 7216, the a-symmetric hoops, and 7212, the second dress, with no flounces. Which ones are 9769 and 9764? Are they the corset/chemise/drawers pattern (I own that, can't find it for the number) and the petticoat pattern? Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jun 9 07:27:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA27643 for ; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 07:27:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g59BM3C23690; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 05:22:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g59BM1w13677; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 05:22:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hirogen.kabelfoon.nl (hirogen.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.69]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g59BL9w13543 for ; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 05:21:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-fp02-166.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.121.166]) by hirogen.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DB067CD5 for ; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 13:21:08 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3D033A25.9020304@kabelfoon.nl> From: Deredere & Owen Iskander User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011128 Netscape6/6.2.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Simplicity 9769/9764 References: <4.3.1.2.20020608210356.00d26bb0@mail.frys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 09 Jun 2002 13:21:09 +0200 Status: RO Hi, The 9769 is the corset/chemise/drawers pattern and 9764 is the hoopskirt and petticoat pattern. I also found out that I have to take a much smaller size than Simplicity tells me to take. I don't understand wy the sizes are completely wrong. It's stupid. But I like the patterns because there easy. I don't like the sleaves either. Think I am going to look for some pictures before I decide how to make the dress. Do you now any websithes with pictures of these dresses? Greetings, Deredere Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > >> I just bought the Civil war Simplicity 9761/9769/9764 patterns > > > I own 9761, the dress with the flounces, 7215, the second pattern with > a corset, 7216, the a-symmetric hoops, and 7212, the second dress, > with no flounces. Which ones are 9769 and 9764? Are they the > corset/chemise/drawers pattern (I own that, can't find it for the > number) and the petticoat pattern? > > > Kayta > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jun 9 11:59:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01836 for ; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 11:59:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g59Fr9C01601; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 09:53:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g59Fr0w06185; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 09:53:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f171.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.171]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g59FqVw06079 for ; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 09:52:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 08:52:25 -0700 Received: from 24.200.48.35 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 09 Jun 2002 15:52:25 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.200.48.35] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Civil war Simplicity 9761/9769/9764 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Jun 2002 15:52:25.0976 (UTC) FILETIME=[A6BAAF80:01C20FCD] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 09 Jun 2002 15:52:25 +0000 Status: RO >But I will lay mine out >differently than they say to do it, and will do different sleeves. Most of the times anyway, with Simplicity patterns, you can rethink the way you lay out the pieces and save as much as a third of what they made you buy... Sometimes even almost half of it, when it's small pieces (ex. stuffed animal pillows) I always say I should lay out my pieces on the floor before going out to buy the fabric, but it's just too much trouble... BTW, I just LOVE that pattern too. I'm very glad to hear it's not too bad after all :-) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jun 9 14:51:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA09413 for ; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 14:51:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g59Ik3C08304; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 12:46:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g59Ik1w15602; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 12:46:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f204.pav2.hotmail.com [64.4.37.204]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g59Ijnw15572 for ; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 12:45:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 11:45:43 -0700 Received: from 12.224.202.188 by pv2fd.pav2.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 09 Jun 2002 18:45:43 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.224.202.188] From: "Jennifer Sena" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Simplicity 9769/9764 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Jun 2002 18:45:43.0962 (UTC) FILETIME=[DC696FA0:01C20FE5] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 09 Jun 2002 11:45:43 -0700 Status: RO >I don't like the sleaves either. Think I am going to look for some >pictures before I decide how to make the dress. >Do you now any websithes with pictures of these dresses? > >Greetings, > Deredere > http://www.costumes.org/pages/timelinepages/timeline.htm Look at the area of time you're interested in on the main page and you'll go to dozens of great pictures!! This is the site where I found my dream dress pictures to use for designing my only hugely hooped gown. Good luck with your project. :) Jennifer Sena Distant Designs http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jun 9 17:40:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA10555 for ; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 17:40:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g59LZ7C15546; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 15:35:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g59LZ1w25041; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 15:35:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m06.mx.aol.com (imo-m06.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.161]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g59LYMw24893 for ; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 15:34:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.6.2a23ad49 (25512) for ; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 17:34:15 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <6.2a23ad49.2a3523d7@aol.com> To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 138 Subject: [h-cost] French Revolution--new system for numbering the years Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 17:34:15 EDT Status: RO I would appreciate some help in dating the French fashion plates from the Consulat-Directoire period. What was year one? When did they start renumbering as "ans I, ans II, ans III, ans IV [in Roman numerals]? I really need to try to pinpoint some probable dates during this period. Thanks. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jun 9 18:36:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA10779 for ; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 18:36:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g59MV2C17568; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 16:31:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g59MV1w06928; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 16:31:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtpout.mac.com (smtpout.mac.com [204.179.120.86]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g59MULw06802 for ; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 16:30:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp-relay02-en1.mac.com (smtp-relay02-en1 [10.13.10.225]) by smtpout.mac.com (8.12.1/8.10.2/1.0) with ESMTP id g59MUJST008286 for ; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 15:30:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp01.mac.com (asmtp01-qfe3 [10.13.10.65]) by smtp-relay02-en1.mac.com (8.12.1/8.12.1/1.0) with ESMTP id g59MUEKs029617 for ; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 15:30:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [128.95.177.85] ([128.95.177.85]) by asmtp01.mac.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id GXGMID00.Q43 for ; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 15:30:13 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Subject: Re: [h-cost] French Revolution--new system for numbering the years From: Agnes G To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <6.2a23ad49.2a3523d7@aol.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 09 Jun 2002 15:30:26 -0700 Status: RO 1792 is year one 1804 is year 12 when it was abandoned by Napoleon. > From: AnnBWass@aol.com > Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com > Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 17:34:15 EDT > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: [h-cost] French Revolution--new system for numbering the years > > I would appreciate some help in dating the French fashion plates from the > Consulat-Directoire period. What was year one? When did they start > renumbering as "ans I, ans II, ans III, ans IV [in Roman numerals]? I really > need to try to pinpoint some probable dates during this period. > Thanks. > Ann Wass > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jun 9 18:47:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA10802 for ; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 18:47:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g59Mg3C17988; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 16:42:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g59Mg1w09332; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 16:42:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m03.mx.aol.com (imo-m03.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.6]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g59MfIw09184 for ; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 16:41:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.1aa.3743a2d (657) for ; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 18:41:05 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <1aa.3743a2d.2a353381@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] French Revolution--new system for numbering the years To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 138 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 18:41:05 EDT Status: RO Thanks. That's what I needed. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jun 9 21:38:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA11332 for ; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 21:38:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5A1X5C24698; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 19:33:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5A1X1w16448; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 19:33:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5A1W6w16209 for ; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 19:32:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA12861 for ; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 20:55:04 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] Lost a link Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 20:55:04 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO Anyone know what happened to the "Sewing the Seeds of Rebellion" site, run by Sarah someone -- I think Sarah Goodman? (She has posted to this list occasionally.) My own bookmark doesn't work. I keep finding links to it on other costume sites, but none of those work, either, though they lead to several different URLs. Obviously this page has moved around a lot! --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jun 9 21:46:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA11365 for ; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 21:46:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5A1f1C25013; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 19:41:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5A1f1w18485; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 19:41:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from barry.mail.mindspring.net (barry.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.25]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5A1eGw18247 for ; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 19:40:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ar-011nvlvegp255.dialsprint.net ([63.178.207.17] helo=[0019381808]) by barry.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17HEAK-0005u7-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 09 Jun 2002 21:40:16 -0400 From: "Katherine" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lost a link Message-ID: <3D03A1D6.31472.1832FF3@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: kcg@sprynet.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 18:43:34 -0700 Status: RO This isn't much of a help, but I bookmarked the page about a month ago with this address: http://homepage.mac.com/lithiate/ All that comes up is a message that says either the page moved or exceeded its bandwidth. So, if it's the bandwidth it may be back soon? Katherine On 9 Jun 2002, at 20:55, Robin Netherton wrote: > > Anyone know what happened to the "Sewing the Seeds of Rebellion" site, run > by Sarah someone -- I think Sarah Goodman? (She has posted to this list > occasionally.) > > My own bookmark doesn't work. I keep finding links to it on other costume > sites, but none of those work, either, though they lead to several > different URLs. Obviously this page has moved around a lot! > > --Robin > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jun 9 21:54:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA11416 for ; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 21:54:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5A1n1C25316; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 19:49:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5A1n1w20230; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 19:49:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5A1m1w20029 for ; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 19:48:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comcast.net (pcp234016pcs.elictc01.md.comcast.net [68.55.178.225]) by mtaout06.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.8 (built May 13 2002)) with ESMTP id <0GXG00DRVVNB7A@mtaout06.icomcast.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 09 Jun 2002 21:47:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Liz / Cozit To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <3D040539.5080900@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.0rc2) Gecko/20020512 Netscape/7.0b1 References: <200206091801.g59I1pw05419@net.indra.com> Subject: [h-cost] Re: pleats Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 09 Jun 2002 21:47:37 -0400 Status: RO Ooops.. forgot to mention that the skirt is part of a dress for the Ren. Fest. (though I've another, same period (1st half 1500s) in the works for SCA). It does need to look period.... very much so, since I'm in a reenactment guild at my faire, so yokes are out. One who sent a suggestion mentioned that sometimes a fabric tape was used to tack to at hip level while creating pleats in Germany somewhere/when. (I read it a few moments ago, and the details have slipped already). Guess what I'll try, if no other suggestions come up is to use two tapes, one waist sized, one hip, and then work out the pleats on them, marking before folding. Hmm... that might almost be easier, even with the pleat size change top and hip, than my "usual" method of using a piece of cardboard cut to appropriate width (fast, but sometimes fiddly) Thanks, -Elisabeth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jun 9 23:58:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA12360 for ; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 23:58:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5A3r2C00455; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 21:53:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5A3r1w18188; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 21:53:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5A3qAw18010 for ; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 21:52:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m241.in-tch.com [216.166.191.241]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g5A3ctv03641 for ; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 21:38:56 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3D0423AD.51344BB5@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lost a link References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 09 Jun 2002 21:57:33 -0600 Status: RO Dang...something must be wrong. I just tried *my* bookmark, and the link from Drea's website, and neither work. I keep getting error messages. Perhaps she's moving it again or something? Lets hope it gets fixed soon! --sue, in very rainy Montana (kept me indoors this weekend, but playing computer games instead of sewing, like a good girl!) Robin Netherton wrote: > > Anyone know what happened to the "Sewing the Seeds of Rebellion" site, run > by Sarah someone -- I think Sarah Goodman? (She has posted to this list > occasionally.) > > My own bookmark doesn't work. I keep finding links to it on other costume > sites, but none of those work, either, though they lead to several > different URLs. Obviously this page has moved around a lot! > > --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 10 00:06:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA12422 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 00:06:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5A412C00904; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 22:01:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5A411w20044; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 22:01:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ns.misc.com (h-66-134-203-2.SNVACAID.covad.net [66.134.203.2]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5A40Gw19819 for ; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 22:00:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from misc.com (mac.misc.com [192.168.254.109]) by ns.misc.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA02547 for ; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 21:01:01 -0700 Message-ID: <3D04255A.CF555C5@misc.com> From: Theresa Eacker X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lost a link References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 09 Jun 2002 21:04:42 -0700 Status: RO Hi there- This is what you're looking for: === http://www.elizabethanlady.com/ === Theresa Eacker Robin Netherton wrote: > > Anyone know what happened to the "Sewing the Seeds of Rebellion" site, run > by Sarah someone -- I think Sarah Goodman? (She has posted to this list > occasionally.) > > My own bookmark doesn't work. I keep finding links to it on other costume > sites, but none of those work, either, though they lead to several > different URLs. Obviously this page has moved around a lot! > > --Robin > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 10 00:12:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA12435 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 00:12:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5A470C01081; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 22:07:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5A470w21363; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 22:07:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5A46ow21336 for ; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 22:06:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA13878 for ; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 23:29:49 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lost a link In-Reply-To: <3D04255A.CF555C5@misc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 23:29:49 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Sun, 9 Jun 2002, Theresa Eacker wrote: > This is what you're looking for: > > http://www.elizabethanlady.com/ Great! How did you find that? I sure hope the 657 other sites that link to hers get the word... --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 10 00:47:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA12546 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 00:47:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5A4g5C02472; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 22:42:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5A4g3w29717; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 22:42:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ns.misc.com (h-66-134-203-2.SNVACAID.covad.net [66.134.203.2]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5A4fNw29552 for ; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 22:41:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from misc.com (mac.misc.com [192.168.254.109]) by ns.misc.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA02732 for ; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 21:42:08 -0700 Message-ID: <3D042EFC.4BC49CD4@misc.com> From: Theresa Eacker X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lost a link References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 09 Jun 2002 21:45:50 -0700 Status: RO To Robin- There was a thread about costume interns on h-cost, which was referenced at margospatterns, that she posted on. I dug around in my trash for it, because I remembered thinking that "Oh, she changed from a really cool name (Sewing....) to one in yet another in the myriads of That Queen's Overused Name (Eliza...)". Obviously, I'm spending way too much time at the computer and not enough at the sewing machine!!! Robin Netherton wrote: > Great! How did you find that? > > I sure hope the 657 other sites that link to hers get the word... > > --Robin > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 10 02:54:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA08300 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 02:54:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5A6n2C06315; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 00:49:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5A6n0w25877; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 00:49:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from barry.mail.mindspring.net (barry.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.25]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5A6mbw25772 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 00:48:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from user-33qtmd6.dialup.mindspring.com ([199.174.217.166] helo=[199.174.208.168]) by barry.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17HIyh-0007HN-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 02:48:35 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3CFF631C.2FAE8A05@dandy.net> References: <3CFF631C.2FAE8A05@dandy.net> To: h-costume@indra.com From: Chris Laning Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] Re: Bag Hats & Stocking Caps Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 23:43:44 -0700 Status: RO At 9:26 AM -0400 6/6/02, leigh tartaglio wrote: >Hi. There are some cultures that use what you seem to be describing. The >Janissary troops of the Ottoman Sultan use a sort of cylindrical hat that >flops backwards, almost like the bag you mention, and Polish hats of the >late 16th cent. have elements like that (perhaps the Eastern influence?) >similar to the tapered variant....[snip] Thanks, Mike. Sorry not to provide enough detail to begin with. Here's my reasoning. I'm working on a historical knitting booklet, and it's going to include about half a dozen patterns for Medieval to Renaissance knitted items (mostly bags, caps and socks, I think) appropriate for sometime in the years 1400-1600. I'm trying to figure out how to include a REALLY SIMPLE starting project to encourage people to try knitting in the round -- which is kind of like breadmaking :) in that it's really not as hard as it looks, you just have to get up your nerve to try it. Knitting in the round is a skill that's required for all of the other projects I want to include, since that's the way they were done, historically, but it's something a lot of modern knitters haven't learned to do, and I want to encourage them. I'd really rather the Really Simple Project was _not_ a bag (purse or pouch), since I'm probably including two other bags among the projects -- a reproduction of the Gunnister purse (which is post-1600, I know, but plausible before that...) and a pouch with medieval Islamic color patterns. I know I'm going to include a simple "pudding bowl" cap, at least one pair of stockings, and probably a beret-style hat (Elizabethan "flat hat" or Scotch bonnet). I'm hoping I can find a way to justify a project that is a simple cylinder of knitting -- no color patterns, no increases and decreases, just plain knitting around and around, and at least 6 or 7 inches in diameter so that people can use a circular needle if they want (un-historical, but less scary for beginners than a set of double-points). I know that various kinds of "tube hats", ranging from a cylinder gathered to a pompom at the top, to the classic "stocking cap" which is basically an elongated tube that eventually decreases to a point, are "traditional" (whatever that means) at various places in Western Europe. A simple cylinder is an appealing kind of hat, because it can be seamed straight across the top and worn various ways -- with the seam running sideways or front-to-back, folded and tacked to form a square or tapered top, et cetera. What I _don't_ know is how far back these hats go. Although you can't usually tell from a painting whether a garmet is knitted or woven, I'm looking for something on the order of pointers to Breughel paintings (?) or other sources where people might be pictured wearing caps of the right shape. So I guess what I'm asking is whether anyone has (a) noticed such a cap, and if so, where, or (2) whether people can suggest particular sites or paintings I should look at. (Oh no -- I've been struck by a horrible thought! What if this should turn into yet another research project???!?! Maybe even a paper !!?!?!? ) -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 10 05:24:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA08775 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 05:24:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5A9J3C11217; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 03:19:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5A9J2w24422; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 03:19:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5A9Ihw24372 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 03:18:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KIRG9EJ8VK00H2D9@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 10:21:35 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KIRG930ITS006U3G@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 10:21:19 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Mon, 10 Jun 2002 10:15:30 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Mon, 10 Jun 2002 10:14:56 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.75) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 10:14:55 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Teddy-diva?? (WAS: Usage of "the") In-reply-to: <200206071700.g57H0Gw26692@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <48F8A6222CB@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 10:14:55 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > I have seen a photo were you looked like a diva. <<< fast>>>> But you looked damn good! Penny Ladnier Where??!?!?!? Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 10 05:33:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA08808 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 05:33:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5A9S1C11438; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 03:28:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5A9S1w26421; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 03:28:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5A9RUw26307 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 03:27:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KIRGKMK2TC00EKFH@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 10:30:38 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KIRGKF0KEC006U3G@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 10:30:27 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Mon, 10 Jun 2002 10:24:38 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Mon, 10 Jun 2002 10:24:05 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.75) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 10:24:02 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Braid for Saxon tunic In-reply-to: <200206071802.g57I2Zw00340@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <48FB16B6D96@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 10:24:01 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > Tablet weaving is correct see www.maering.co.uk there are examples > of there. > > Bought braid looks aweful Unfortunately, Mel, bough braid is what they're after. It doesn't need to be highly accurate (you were at my coronation, you saw the general level of such things....) but they'd liek to know the sort of patterns to look out for so that it's not *completely* out of place. > A good place to start might be looking at inkle weaving pages on the > web. This is a common method for applying and making braids and trims > in the AS period. There are some very subtle and sophisticated > patterns available. > > Short of that .... I'd vote for a simple geometric, checky, fretty, > diamonds etc. Thanks, Mari. I'll pass that on. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 10 05:38:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA08818 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 05:38:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5A9X1C11643; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 03:33:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5A9X1w27429; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 03:33:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5A9Wjw27363 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 03:32:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A2C97B1029E; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 04:35:05 -0500 Message-ID: <016401c21061$3a8593e0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] A Rat in the Trap Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 05:28:49 -0400 Status: RO For those of you who have costume websites and are tired of people linking into your imagebase that you are paying for... let me show you a trick. I caught another rat in the trap directly linking into my imagebase. Some of you might remember when I did this to a Korean site last year. Well I have been battling this place called livejournal.com . It is a place where people have live online journals and they seem to love to directly link to my images. So I left a present for the thief by switching the image. <<> Go to http://www.livejournal.com/users/annahsophia/ and see the present I left for the rat in the trap. A couple of months ago, I talked with livejournal.com and they said, "They can't control what people put in their journals." So I guess I will keep on setting rat traps until all my images are split up on my website. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 10 05:39:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA08823 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 05:39:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5A9Y1C11683; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 03:34:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5A9Y0w27653; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 03:34:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mrburns.nildram.co.uk (mrburns.nildram.co.uk [195.112.0.57]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5A9Xdw27554 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 03:33:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (bart.nildram.co.uk [195.112.4.97]) by mrburns.nildram.co.uk (Postfix) with SMTP id 531EF1E49B4; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 10:33:20 +0100 (BST) To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Braid for Saxon tunic From: Jane Williams Cc: Jane Williams X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-Mailer: NOCC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20020610093321.531EF1E49B4@mrburns.nildram.co.uk> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: Jane Williams List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 10:33:20 BST Status: RO Teddy wrote : > Unfortunately, Mel, bough braid is what they're after. It doesn't need > to be highly accurate (you were at my coronation, you saw the > general level of such things....) but they'd liek to know the sort > of patterns to look out for so that it's not *completely* out of place. This is Far Isles, then? Try Herts Fabrics. He knows what's right for what period, and sells some tablet weaving, though may not have quite what you (they) want. Somewhere at home in my filing system are the names of various people who do Saxon tablet weaving, but the specialist stuff does tend to be pricey. No promises, but I'll see what I can find. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 10 05:51:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA08864 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 05:51:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5A9k1C11901; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 03:46:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5A9k0w29946; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 03:46:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5A9jfw29886 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 03:45:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A5D27C6029E; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 04:48:02 -0500 Message-ID: <016e01c21063$07f68b80$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <48F8A6222CB@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Teddy-diva?? (WAS: Usage of "the") X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 05:41:43 -0400 Status: RO I saw it on someone's website... I think the person was on h-costume. You are in a long costume gown with an unusual hat. We were discussing the costume on the list. Yes, you were the diva! No one could touch you in that costume. BTW, the make-up was great! Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Teddy" To: Sent: Monday, June 10, 2002 6:14 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Teddy-diva?? (WAS: Usage of "the") > > > I have seen a photo were you looked like a diva. <<< > fast>>>> But you looked damn good! > > Penny Ladnier > > Where??!?!?!? > > > > > Teddy > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 10 06:06:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA08921 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 06:06:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5AA11C12274; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 04:01:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5AA10w03011; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 04:01:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from userweb.suscom.net (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5AA0fw02931 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 04:00:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from yourczpl0pp1h9 (ip158.97.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.158]) by userweb.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 2077F10F2A2 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 05:53:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001601c21065$69f413a0$9e614e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lost a link MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 05:58:46 -0400 Status: RO Try www.elizabethanlady.com . Dianne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Netherton" To: "Historic Costume List" Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2002 9:55 PM Subject: [h-cost] Lost a link > > Anyone know what happened to the "Sewing the Seeds of Rebellion" site, run > by Sarah someone -- I think Sarah Goodman? (She has posted to this list > occasionally.) > > My own bookmark doesn't work. I keep finding links to it on other costume > sites, but none of those work, either, though they lead to several > different URLs. Obviously this page has moved around a lot! > > --Robin > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 10 06:06:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA08925 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 06:06:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5AA1AC12284; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 04:01:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5AA1Aw03060; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 04:01:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13303.mail.yahoo.com (web13303.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.39]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g5AA0ww02990 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 04:00:58 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020610100057.30362.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13303.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 11:00:57 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] A Rat in the Trap To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <016401c21061$3a8593e0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 11:00:57 +0100 (BST) Status: RO Penny, how do you actually find the direct linkers? This web host of mine has lovely statistics, but not the ones anymore that the last one had where I could see if someone linked directly. Is there another way? Cheers Nicole --- Penny Ladnier wrote: > For those of you who have costume websites and are tired of people linking > into your imagebase that you are paying for... let me show you a trick. > > I caught another rat in the trap directly linking into my imagebase. Some > of you might remember when I did this to a Korean site last year. Well I > have been battling this place called livejournal.com . It is a place where > people have live online journals and they seem to love to directly link to > my images. So I left a present for the thief by switching the image. > <<> Go to > http://www.livejournal.com/users/annahsophia/ and see the present I left for > the rat in the trap. > > A couple of months ago, I talked with livejournal.com and they said, "They > can't control what people put in their journals." So I guess I will keep on > setting rat traps until all my images are split up on my website. > > Penny Ladnier > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > http://www.costumegallery.com > http://www.costumeclassroom.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 10 06:14:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA08942 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 06:14:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5AA90C12526; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 04:09:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5AA90w04692; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 04:09:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5AA8Zw04615 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 04:08:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from melaniew (213-78-99-172.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.99.172]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AHA13041; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 11:08:39 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <00c201c21067$581a7500$3a6f4ed5@melaniew> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Braid for Saxon tunic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 11:12:35 +0100 Status: RO >Unfortunately, Mel, bough braid is what they're after. It doesn't need to be highly accurate (you were at my coronation, you saw the general level of such things....) but they'd liek to know the sort of patterns to look out for so that it's not *completely* out of place. There are some examples on www.maering.co.uk pages, under tablet weaving They could also try buying tablet weaving there are quite a few people who will sell it Mel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 10 06:16:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA08952 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 06:16:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5AAB0C12703; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 04:11:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5AAB0w05115; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 04:11:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mrburns.nildram.co.uk (mrburns.nildram.co.uk [195.112.0.57]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5AAAow05076 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 04:10:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (bart.nildram.co.uk [195.112.4.97]) by mrburns.nildram.co.uk (Postfix) with SMTP id 4C4CF1E49F1; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 11:10:47 +0100 (BST) To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] A Rat in the Trap From: Jane Williams Cc: Jane Williams X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-Mailer: NOCC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20020610101047.4C4CF1E49F1@mrburns.nildram.co.uk> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: Jane Williams List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 11:10:47 BST Status: RO N Kipar wrote : > Penny, how do you actually find the direct linkers? This web host of mine has > lovely statistics, but not the ones anymore that the last one had where I > could > see if someone linked directly. Is there another way? Google advanced search will look for links to a specific page. http://www.google.com/advanced_search?hl=en and scroll down to the bottom. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 10 06:21:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA08963 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 06:21:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5AAG1C12803; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 04:16:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5AAG0w06152; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 04:16:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5AAFNw06016 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 04:15:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id ACC822D0020C; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 05:17:44 -0500 Message-ID: <017f01c21067$b36df940$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <20020610100057.30362.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] A Rat in the Trap X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 06:15:08 -0400 Status: RO Nicole, The place I have plug-it.com has the best stats I have ever seen. They have a section that you can find out to the minute, who are new places that are linking to your website. You can also find out how many people used what keyword from what search engine to get to your site. Another feature is what locations by country and in the Us. by state are visiting your site. It is a great marketing tool. I want to thank you again, for telling me about split image. Susan and I have been splitting up images like crazy. Now we are putting all of it index pages to have popups from the thumbnails. Then the people can't view source. Here is one site, I just finished... http://www.costumegallery.com/LadysFriend/ Click on the Bathing Suit. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "N Kipar" To: Sent: Monday, June 10, 2002 6:00 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] A Rat in the Trap > Penny, how do you actually find the direct linkers? This web host of mine has > lovely statistics, but not the ones anymore that the last one had where I could > see if someone linked directly. Is there another way? > > Cheers > Nicole > > --- Penny Ladnier wrote: > For those of you who > have costume websites and are tired of people linking > > into your imagebase that you are paying for... let me show you a trick. > > > > I caught another rat in the trap directly linking into my imagebase. Some > > of you might remember when I did this to a Korean site last year. Well I > > have been battling this place called livejournal.com . It is a place where > > people have live online journals and they seem to love to directly link to > > my images. So I left a present for the thief by switching the image. > > <<> Go to > > http://www.livejournal.com/users/annahsophia/ and see the present I left for > > the rat in the trap. > > > > A couple of months ago, I talked with livejournal.com and they said, "They > > can't control what people put in their journals." So I guess I will keep on > > setting rat traps until all my images are split up on my website. > > > > Penny Ladnier > > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > > http://www.costumegallery.com > > http://www.costumeclassroom.com > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > ===== > Nicole Kipar M.A. > Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs > Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 > URL: http://www.kipar.org/ > Email: marquis@kipar.org > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 10 06:26:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA08977 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 06:26:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5AAL1C12953; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 04:21:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5AAL1w07223; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 04:21:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5AAKOw07121 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 04:20:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id ADF422D8020C; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 05:22:44 -0500 Message-ID: <018c01c21068$65228700$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <20020610100057.30362.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com> <017f01c21067$b36df940$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] A Rat in the Trap X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 06:20:07 -0400 Status: RO Sorry about that, I thought Nicole wrote me personally. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Penny Ladnier" To: Sent: Monday, June 10, 2002 6:15 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] A Rat in the Trap > Nicole, > > The place I have plug-it.com has the best stats I have ever seen. They have > a section that you can find out to the minute, who are new places that are > linking to your website. You can also find out how many people used what > keyword from what search engine to get to your site. Another feature is what > locations by country and in the Us. by state are visiting your site. It is > a great marketing tool. > > I want to thank you again, for telling me about split image. Susan and I > have been splitting up images like crazy. Now we are putting all of it > index pages to have popups from the thumbnails. Then the people can't view > source. Here is one site, I just finished... > http://www.costumegallery.com/LadysFriend/ Click on the Bathing Suit. > > Penny Ladnier > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > http://www.costumegallery.com > http://www.costumeclassroom.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "N Kipar" > To: > Sent: Monday, June 10, 2002 6:00 AM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] A Rat in the Trap > > > > Penny, how do you actually find the direct linkers? This web host of mine > has > > lovely statistics, but not the ones anymore that the last one had where I > could > > see if someone linked directly. Is there another way? > > > > Cheers > > Nicole > > > > --- Penny Ladnier wrote: > For those of you > who > > have costume websites and are tired of people linking > > > into your imagebase that you are paying for... let me show you a trick. > > > > > > I caught another rat in the trap directly linking into my imagebase. > Some > > > of you might remember when I did this to a Korean site last year. Well > I > > > have been battling this place called livejournal.com . It is a place > where > > > people have live online journals and they seem to love to directly link > to > > > my images. So I left a present for the thief by switching the image. > > > <<> Go to > > > http://www.livejournal.com/users/annahsophia/ and see the present I left > for > > > the rat in the trap. > > > > > > A couple of months ago, I talked with livejournal.com and they said, > "They > > > can't control what people put in their journals." So I guess I will > keep on > > > setting rat traps until all my images are split up on my website. > > > > > > Penny Ladnier > > > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > > > http://www.costumegallery.com > > > http://www.costumeclassroom.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > h-costume mailing list > > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > ===== > > Nicole Kipar M.A. > > Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs > > Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 > > URL: http://www.kipar.org/ > > Email: marquis@kipar.org > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 10 06:28:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA08983 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 06:28:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5AAN1C13047; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 04:23:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5AAN1w07691; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 04:23:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13303.mail.yahoo.com (web13303.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.39]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g5AAMgw07636 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 04:22:42 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020610102242.32851.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13303.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 11:22:42 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] A Rat in the Trap To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20020610101047.4C4CF1E49F1@mrburns.nildram.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 11:22:42 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Jane Williams wrote: > > Google advanced search will look for links to a specific page. > > http://www.google.com/advanced_search?hl=en > > and scroll down to the bottom. Thank you! I searched for the root web site, oh boy! That's going to take me ages, never knew I had close to 800 links. ;-) Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 10 06:34:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA09010 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 06:34:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5AAT1C13188; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 04:29:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5AAT1w08838; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 04:29:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from userweb.suscom.net (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5AASCw08695 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 04:28:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from yourczpl0pp1h9 (ip158.97.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.158]) by userweb.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 329DF10F67B for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 06:21:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00f001c21069$41ff8330$9e614e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" To: References: <48F8A6222CB@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Teddy-diva?? (WAS: Usage of "the") MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 06:26:18 -0400 Status: RO Looks damn good in his Rocky Horror Picture Show costume too! Dianne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Teddy" To: Sent: Monday, June 10, 2002 6:14 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Teddy-diva?? (WAS: Usage of "the") > > > I have seen a photo were you looked like a diva. <<< > fast>>>> But you looked damn good! > > Penny Ladnier > > Where??!?!?!? > > > > > Teddy > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 10 06:51:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA09107 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 06:51:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5AAk1C13582; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 04:46:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5AAk1w12067; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 04:46:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5AAjsw12039 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 04:45:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A3EF32B601F6; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 05:48:15 -0500 Message-ID: <01ae01c2106b$eba80f40$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <48F8A6222CB@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> <00f001c21069$41ff8330$9e614e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Teddy-diva?? (WAS: Usage of "the") X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 06:45:21 -0400 Status: RO I haven't seen that one! Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 10 06:57:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA09116 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 06:57:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5AAq0C13720; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 04:52:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5AAq0w13213; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 04:52:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from relay04.roc.frontiernet.net (relay04.roc.frontiernet.net [66.133.131.37]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g5AAp6w13061 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 04:51:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 380 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2002 10:51:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vaio) ([170.215.193.116]) (envelope-sender ) by relay04.roc.frontiernet.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 10 Jun 2002 10:51:05 -0000 Message-ID: <007e01c2106c$874bcf40$01fea8c0@vaio> From: "Rowena" To: References: <20020610100057.30362.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com> <017f01c21067$b36df940$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] A Rat in the Trap MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 06:49:42 -0400 Status: RO No, please don't apologize. I want to thank you for bringing this up. There are pictures of me in clothes that I have made at the Fashions in Time web site. And I know for a fact that people "borrow" them, particularly me in a red dress. I just didn't know how to stop it, or what could be done about it. I don't mind some uses of it, but I do mind people using it on their own web sites, to define what they "are", etc. Rowena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Penny Ladnier" To: Sent: Monday, June 10, 2002 6:15 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] A Rat in the Trap > Nicole, > > The place I have plug-it.com has the best stats I have ever seen. They have > a section that you can find out to the minute, who are new places that are > linking to your website. You can also find out how many people used what > keyword from what search engine to get to your site. Another feature is what > locations by country and in the Us. by state are visiting your site. It is > a great marketing tool. > > I want to thank you again, for telling me about split image. Susan and I > have been splitting up images like crazy. Now we are putting all of it > index pages to have popups from the thumbnails. Then the people can't view > source. Here is one site, I just finished... > http://www.costumegallery.com/LadysFriend/ Click on the Bathing Suit. > > Penny Ladnier > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > http://www.costumegallery.com > http://www.costumeclassroom.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "N Kipar" > To: > Sent: Monday, June 10, 2002 6:00 AM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] A Rat in the Trap > > > > Penny, how do you actually find the direct linkers? This web host of mine > has > > lovely statistics, but not the ones anymore that the last one had where I > could > > see if someone linked directly. Is there another way? > > > > Cheers > > Nicole > > > > --- Penny Ladnier wrote: > For those of you > who > > have costume websites and are tired of people linking > > > into your imagebase that you are paying for... let me show you a trick. > > > > > > I caught another rat in the trap directly linking into my imagebase. > Some > > > of you might remember when I did this to a Korean site last year. Well > I > > > have been battling this place called livejournal.com . It is a place > where > > > people have live online journals and they seem to love to directly link > to > > > my images. So I left a present for the thief by switching the image. > > > <<> Go to > > > http://www.livejournal.com/users/annahsophia/ and see the present I left > for > > > the rat in the trap. > > > > > > A couple of months ago, I talked with livejournal.com and they said, > "They > > > can't control what people put in their journals." So I guess I will > keep on > > > setting rat traps until all my images are split up on my website. > > > > > > Penny Ladnier > > > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > > > http://www.costumegallery.com > > > http://www.costumeclassroom.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > h-costume mailing list > > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > ===== > > Nicole Kipar M.A. > > Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs > > Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 > > URL: http://www.kipar.org/ > > Email: marquis@kipar.org > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 10 07:25:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA09234 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 07:25:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5ABK2C14487; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 05:20:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5ABK0w18773; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 05:20:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5ABJXw18650 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 05:19:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id ABD232E901F6; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 06:21:54 -0500 Message-ID: <01c001c21070$9a1a6d80$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <20020610100057.30362.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com> <017f01c21067$b36df940$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> <007e01c2106c$874bcf40$01fea8c0@vaio> Subject: Re: [h-cost] A Rat in the Trap X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 07:18:52 -0400 Status: RO Rowena, If they are directly linking into your imagebase, it is called bandwidth stealing. I pay for my three websites by space and by how much bandwidth transfer there is. Since website hosts have started charging larger or popular sites for bandwidth about a year and a half ago, this can really add up. This place livejournal.com really makes me mad, because when one person links into my database, the image will automatically show up in everyone's webpage that is associated with the thief. This image shows up on several people's journal webpages. But I found the original thief. I am so tired of people writing me saying "give me an image." (those exact words) We have decided to start charging for loaning images. I also made up this webpage last week, http://www.costumegallery.com/LadysFriend/howto.htm and a link to it is going up on every webpage we have. The link says, "Please read before asking to borrow an image." Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 10 08:24:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA09393 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 08:24:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5ACJ2C15939; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 06:19:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5ACJ1w00222; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 06:19:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.10]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5ACIuw00198 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 06:18:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [132.236.139.158] ([132.236.139.158]) by postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA14359 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 08:18:55 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <016401c21061$3a8593e0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> To: h-costume@indra.com From: "M. Stewart" Subject: Re: [h-cost] A Rat in the Trap Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 08:18:51 -0700 Status: RO Penny, nice work. Don't know about the legal end of things - but oh well I'm not a lawyer. Mind sharing that bit of code? I've got a couple of images I would like to protect. Thanks, Mari >For those of you who have costume websites and are tired of people linking >into your imagebase that you are paying for... let me show you a trick. > >I caught another rat in the trap directly linking into my imagebase. Some >of you might remember when I did this to a Korean site last year. Well I >have been battling this place called livejournal.com . It is a place where >people have live online journals and they seem to love to directly link to >my images. So I left a present for the thief by switching the image. ><<> Go to >http://www.livejournal.com/users/annahsophia/ and see the present I left for >the rat in the trap. > >A couple of months ago, I talked with livejournal.com and they said, "They >can't control what people put in their journals." So I guess I will keep on >setting rat traps until all my images are split up on my website. > >Penny Ladnier >Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom >http://www.costumegallery.com >http://www.costumeclassroom.com > Mari Stewart, Cornell University, Ithaca NY M. Stewart Webmaster/Electronic Communications BCERF / Cornell University 101 Rice Hall _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 10 08:34:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA09419 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 08:34:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5ACT1C16134; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 06:29:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5ACT0w02276; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 06:29:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp4.ihug.co.nz (smtp4.ihug.co.nz [203.109.252.5]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5ACScw02191 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 06:28:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p433-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.193.179] by smtp4.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1 (Debian)) id 17HOHe-0001O9-00; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 00:28:31 +1200 Message-ID: <006601c2107a$59844390$b3c1adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: <20020610100057.30362.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com> <017f01c21067$b36df940$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> <007e01c2106c$874bcf40$01fea8c0@vaio> <01c001c21070$9a1a6d80$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] A Rat in the Trap MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 00:28:33 +1200 Status: RO > This place livejournal.com really makes me mad, because when one person > links into my database, the image will automatically show up in everyone's > webpage that is associated with the thief. This image shows up on several > people's journal webpages. But I found the original thief. Can lj stop people from linking to images though? I mean that would then mean people cannot link to images on their own sites. I have two journals there and it's an excellent way to keep people up to date with the hell that is my life;). just started a costuming journal actually:). The most they could do is warn then suspend a user for stealing an image... I know they do suspend people for harassment etc etc. .. maybe if you can get some legal backing you can get them to add bandwidth stealing to their policy? On stopping people stealing directly... does your server have coding or the ability to stop people direct linking to the images? This has come up on a message board I frequent... http://www.kate-winslet.org/community/messageboard/showthread.php?s=&threadi d=5722&highlight=bandwidth+image You could email Rich and ask him about the codes he mentions. And as for images in a pop up window to not view the sourse.. there is a very easy way around that. I won't say as people either know it or don't and those that don't may as well stay that way;). So the breaking up of images sounds like the best way. There is a Gone With The Wind page that has lovely images of the costumes/recreations and they are split into three or more pieces. It can't stop people saving the images and reassembling them, but it does make it harder. And of course rather more trouble than most bandwidth stealers are willing to go to in order to direct link. The harder it is to direct link or copy an image the better, but there really is no way to stop people seeing the code. > I am so tired of people writing me saying "give me an image." (those exact > words) We have decided to start charging for loaning images. Now that is just plain rude on their part! And as it costs you to store, host, upkeep and create the images I don't blame you! michaela _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 10 10:15:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA09831 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 10:15:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5AE97C21237; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 08:09:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5AE94w01350; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 08:09:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5AE8mw01233 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 08:08:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KIRQEC9C6O00FFZ4@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 15:11:54 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KIRQEABIF600IWJG@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 15:11:50 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Mon, 10 Jun 2002 15:06:00 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Mon, 10 Jun 2002 15:05:53 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.75) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 15:05:50 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] A Rat in the Trap In-reply-to: <200206101002.g5AA2Ew03273@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <49463E533D3@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 15:05:50 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO Penny E Dunlap Ladnier said: > Well I have been battling this place called livejournal.com . It > is a place where people have live online journals and they seem to > love to directly link to my images. So I left a present for the > thief by switching the image. <<> Go to > http://www.livejournal.com/users/annahsophia/ and see the present > I left for the rat in the trap. > > A couple of months ago, I talked with livejournal.com and they said, > "They can't control what people put in their journals." So I guess I > will keep on setting rat traps until all my images are split up on my > website. I've had some recent dealings with them too. Someone copied a picture from my website directly onto their livejournal site in a "caption this" section. If they'd *asked* (and offered to put the appropriate credits, possibly a link to my webpage), I'd have happily given them permission to use it but they didn't. Fortunately, another listmember recognized it and let me know it was there. I e-mailed the girl directly and e-mailed the livejournal people informed me they had instructed her to remove the image and warned her not to do it again - I never got any reply from the girl herself. It looks like she encourages anyone interested to just send her pictures for the "caption this" page and uses them regardless of where they came from and whose permission should be obtaied before using them. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 10 10:24:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA09875 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 10:24:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5AEJ1C22037; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 08:19:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5AEJ1w05397; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 08:19:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5AEIvw05360 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 08:18:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KIRQQXBS5S00OQHB@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 15:22:05 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KIRQQN5YEY00CZXA@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 15:21:48 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Mon, 10 Jun 2002 15:15:58 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Mon, 10 Jun 2002 15:15:19 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.75) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 15:15:12 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Teddy-diva?? (WAS: Usage of "the") In-reply-to: <200206101002.g5AA2Ew03273@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4948C1F7FBF@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 15:15:12 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > I saw it on someone's website... I think the person was on > h-costume. You are in a long costume gown with an unusual hat. We > were discussing the costume on the list. Yes, you were the diva! > No one could touch you in that costume. BTW, the make-up was > great! Ah, that's probably me in the Tanu costume from Maggie and Mike Percival's Best in Show winning entry in the WorldCon Masquerade back in 1995.... never thought of that look as Diva - I'm meant to be an *alien*. If it's the one you're thinking of, it's on the Costume guild UK pages at: http://www.ireadh.demon.co.uk/cguk/ccxvdisp/page5.html and on Mike and Maggie's costume pages at: http://www.ireadh.demon.co.uk/costumes/teddy.htm with the rest of the costumes in that set listed at; http://www.ireadh.demon.co.uk/costumes/ Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 10 10:29:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA09889 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 10:29:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5AEO1C22416; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 08:24:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5AEO0w07589; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 08:24:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5AENtw07523 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 08:23:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KIRQX0T25C00E8J1@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 15:27:00 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KIRQWTBRSK00I15S@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 15:26:47 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Mon, 10 Jun 2002 15:20:57 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Mon, 10 Jun 2002 15:20:48 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.75) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 15:20:45 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Braid for Saxon tunic In-reply-to: <200206101230.g5ACU6w02493@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <494A37F78C7@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 15:20:45 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > There are some examples on www.maering.co.uk pages, under tablet > weaving Ooops! I should have scrolled further down than I did!!! ... Doh! > They could also try buying tablet weaving there are quite a few > people who will sell it But for those people to get what it's worth in terms of the time taken making it, the prices are usually high - and this person wants quite a lot of it. I'll pass on the info, however, so they have the choice, Thanks. Teddy P.S Yes, Jane, it is likely to appear at Far-Isles, and though it's primarily for a T.S. person who is thinking of joining the Far Isles. i'll mention Ally at Herts Fabrics to them. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 10 10:48:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA09964 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 10:48:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5AEh2C24240; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 08:43:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5AEh1w16223; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 08:43:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web10301.mail.yahoo.com (web10301.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.79]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g5AEgww16190 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 08:42:58 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020610144257.83900.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [62.7.141.21] by web10301.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 15:42:57 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Debbie=20Lough?= To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1782953588-1023720177=:81727" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: braid for saxon tunic Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 15:42:57 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --0-1782953588-1023720177=:81727 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Tablet braid and inkle braid are obviously both correct - I agree that using modern bought braid looks awful (and would be an abomination!). I know of two suppliers of tablet braid, (of whom only one will deal with anybody they don't know). Tanya, of Tanya's Tablet Weave. Last time I bought braid from her she had a waiting list of around 3 months and cost Ł50 for a tunic length of 20ft. She's listed in Call to Arms. --------------------------------- Sign up to watch the FIFA World Cup video highlights from your desk! http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/fc/en --0-1782953588-1023720177=:81727 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Tablet braid and inkle braid are obviously both correct - I agree that using modern bought braid looks awful (and would be an abomination!).

I know of two suppliers of tablet braid, (of whom only one will deal with anybody they don't know).  Tanya, of Tanya's Tablet Weave.  Last time I bought braid from her she had a waiting list of around 3 months and cost Ł50 for a tunic length of 20ft.  She's listed in Call to Arms.


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http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/fc/en --0-1782953588-1023720177=:81727-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 10 10:58:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA09981 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 10:58:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5AEq1C25013; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 08:52:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5AEq0w20161; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 08:52:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5AEpXw19958 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 08:51:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA16704 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 10:14:32 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] A Rat in the Trap In-Reply-To: <016401c21061$3a8593e0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 10:14:32 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO Penny, the technical talk has me a little confused. For us non-technicians, can you clarify what's acceptable use and what is not? My understanding is this: If someone lifts a picture from your page and makes it appear on theirs, that's verboten. That can happen if they actually make a copy of the image and give it a new filename on their own site. Or it can happen if they create a window on their page and link it to your site in such a way that the image appears on their page. (I gather that's what the livejournal person did.) Do I have that correct? However, I also have the understanding that it's OK to include a link to an image on someone else's site, which people can then follow *to* the other site, where they can view the image. This, I figure is not just courtesy, it's good publicity, in that it brings more viewers to the other site. On my own not-quite-a-webpage, I have a link to my photo in your Online Costume Ball. That's OK, right? The image itself doesn't appear on my site. Of course, the photo's mine, so I could have just posted it directly, but I thought it would be nicer to send people over to you, so they could see your site and the rest of the Ball as well. Perhaps a better parallel: I see plenty of costume sites in which someone describes a fashion and then, for an example, refers people via a link to a museum website or art database. I figure that as long as people have to follow the link, and know where they're going, and the image does not appear on the individual's page, that's OK. In contrast, people who grab an image off another site and have it appear on their own page without permission -- so the viewer does not need to follow a link elsewhere -- are in violation. Unfortunately, we see a lot of that on costume websites too. (And it's also a violation of copyright law to reproduce a published image from an in-copyright book without permission, but that's so common I don't think there's any hope of changing that, and at least there are often mitigating factors such as the book of being out of print, or the purpose of the posting being academic discussion. That doesn't make it legal, but it does mean that if there is a suit, you probably wouldn't pay damages.) So, my questions: 1. Are my distinctions consistent with yours? 2. Does this tracking software make a distinctin between people who simply include a link to your site, or people who actually are showing your image? Thanks! --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 10 12:28:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA10351 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 12:28:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5AGN3C05128; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 10:23:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5AGN1w11323; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 10:23:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m09.mx.aol.com (imo-m09.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.164]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5AGM6w10801 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 10:22:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Azelana@aol.com by imo-m09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 7.12c.12a14bc9 (2616) for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 12:21:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Azelana@aol.com Message-ID: <12c.12a14bc9.2a362c1e@aol.com> To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 124 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Gloves and hat etiquette Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 12:21:50 EDT Status: RO Audrey writes: << I've been wondering, since gloves and hats are very rarely worn these days (I mean, not the ones to keep warm, the ones to look nice), when should they be kept on and when should we take them off? I've always found it weird that you kept your hat on at church... Do you have to take it off the moment you walk into a house? I know it's that way for men, but for women? And what about gloves? I guess you take them off when you eat? >> At the Ogden Mills mansion in Staatsburg, NY, the tour guides mentioned that Victorian women were allowed to keep their hats on at formal dinner parties. This was partly to allow them to do up their hairdos around the hat and not mess up the style by taking the hat off... and partly because head lice was deemed a a real appetite deterrent. As for gloves, I gotta share this story.: I once went to Christmas Eve service in a one-piece pant-dress with a spaghetti-strap black velvet bodice and green double georgette palazzos. For both style and warmth, I wore a pair of opera-length black stretch velvet gloves. I thought I looked fab -- until I reached out my gloved hands to accept communion! I got a terrible glare from the priest, and there was this awkward pause during which time I suppose he expected me to remove my gloves. I had no where to put them, though, and taking off opera-length gloves takes time. I also thought, "If the whole church sees me suddenly removing my gloves, they'll all know I made a mistake and it's all I'll hear about all night!" I gave the priest a discreet pleading look. He finally gave in, but wasn't happy with me at all. To my knowledge, though, only my mother who was next in line for the wafer ever realized what happened. --Gillian _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 10 12:37:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA10401 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 12:37:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5AGW1C06153; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 10:32:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5AGW0w16864; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 10:32:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from app6.nasc.inter.net (clueponbook.nasc.inter.net [203.176.60.253]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5AGVaw16689 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 10:31:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from app1.nasc.inter.net ([10.0.0.11] helo=service.ca.inter.net) by app6.nasc.inter.net with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 17HS4l-00043U-00 for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 12:31:27 -0400 To: h-costume@net.indra.com From: Christine Robb X-Sender: cedar@interlog.com X-Mailer: Endymion MailMan Standard Edition v3.0.33 Message-Id: Subject: [h-cost] Changing rooms (OT) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 12:31:27 US/Eastern Status: RO I can't think of a way to make this on topic, but for those who read the posts on the TV show Changing Rooms, you might find today's Herdthinners amusing : http://www.herdthinners.com Christine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 10 12:44:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA10426 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 12:44:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5AGb1C06825; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 10:37:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5AGb1w20000; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 10:37:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from a.smtp-out.sonic.net (a.smtp-out.sonic.net [208.201.224.38]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g5AGaAw19476 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 10:36:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 7426 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2002 16:36:10 -0000 Received: from tempest.sonic.net (208.201.224.25) by a.smtp-out.sonic.net with SMTP; 10 Jun 2002 16:36:10 -0000 Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-100-138.sonic.net [209.148.100.138]) by tempest.sonic.net (8.11.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id g5AGa8o15546 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 09:36:08 -0700 X-envelope-info: Message-ID: <3D04D665.B2E993F9@lavoltapress.com> From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] A Rat in the Trap References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 09:40:05 -0700 Status: RO > > > However, I also have the understanding that it's OK to include a link to > an image on someone else's site, which people can then follow *to* the > other site, where they can view the image. This, I figure is not just > courtesy, it's good publicity, in that it brings more viewers to the other > site. The problem with people linking to images on a site is this increases the traffic to the site being linked from. However, just linking to an image does not usually bring visitors to the site being linked from in a useful way. It's not like linking to that site's main web page and encouraging visitors to go there. And if there is a great deal of new traffic due to the image linking, it may slow down the site being linked from and even increase bandwidth to the extent that the site owner has to pay their ISP extra. There is some legal information on "deep linking" on this web page: http://www.ivanhoffman.com/linking.html (And it's also a violation of copyright > law to reproduce a published image from an in-copyright book without > permission, but that's so common I don't think there's any hope of > changing that, and at least there are often mitigating factors such as the > book of being out of print, or the purpose of the posting being academic > discussion. That doesn't make it legal, but it does mean that if there is > a suit, you probably wouldn't pay damages.) I've never seen anything in copyright law that says you don 't pay damages for violating the copyright of a book just because it's out of print. Also, "educational use" has distinct limits--one of them being classroom use in a formal educational institution. "Academic discussion" on a mailing list or web site does not qualify legally as "educational." Fran Grimble > > > So, my questions: > > 1. Are my distinctions consistent with yours? > > 2. Does this tracking software make a distinctin between people who simply > include a link to your site, or people who actually are showing your > image? > > Thanks! > > --Robin > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- --------------------------------------------- Visit our web pages! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and vintage dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 10 13:03:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10501 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 13:03:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5AGw3C09544; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 10:58:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5AGw2w04254; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 10:58:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r05.mx.aol.com (imo-r05.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.101]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5AGvWw03891 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 10:57:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Azelana@aol.com by imo-r05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 7.1a0.37116fb (2616) for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 12:57:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Azelana@aol.com Message-ID: <1a0.37116fb.2a36346d@aol.com> To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 124 Subject: [h-cost] Re: 1760's Corset help? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 12:57:17 EDT Status: RO Laura wrote: <> I can help! Check out this webpage: http://www.farthingales.on.ca/corset.htm That page discusses the evolution from Elizabethan through the era you need. Also, click on the Catalog button at top, then "fabrics" under "corsetting" to buy coutil. Heck, just tour the whole site! The construction advice is so worth it, and they sell patterns and all sorts of groovy supplies for historic costuming. --Gillian _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 10 13:24:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10534 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 13:24:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5AHJ1C12122; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 11:19:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5AHJ1818207; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 11:19:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pageartists.com ([207.159.140.64]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5AHIN817794 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 11:18:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ravenxprt (pdx-ppp164.pop1.net [209.102.125.214]) by pageartists.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA24697 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 09:18:21 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <005201c210a4$31a6ef60$2dd9fea9@com> From: "Brenna" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Commercial pattern question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 10:28:08 -0700 Status: RO I thank you all for the input. It's been very valuable. A special thank you to the GBACG for their pattern-critiquing page: http://www.gbacg.org/Patterns/index.html I hope more people make use of it both in posting and reading. (I know I'm going to put a link from our guild site to it. I just have to figure out where. ) Thanx again. Brenna B Sharp Fabrics (also GPACG - www.robewarriors.com) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 10 13:51:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10658 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 13:51:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5AHk1C15271; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 11:46:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5AHk0805021; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 11:46:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scanmail2.cableone.net (scanmail2.cableone.net [24.116.0.122]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5AHjS804724 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 11:45:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scanmail2.cableone.net ([10.116.0.122]) by scanmail2.cableone.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Mon, 10 Jun 2002 10:41:34 -0700 Received: from scanmail2.cableone.net [24.116.0.122] by scanmail2.cableone.net (SMTPD32-7.04) id A4CE1FD0098; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 10:41:34 -0700 Received: from kimathlon (186-130.farcpe.cableone.net [24.116.186.130]) by mail.cableone.net with SMTP (MailShield v2.04 - WIN32 Jul 17 2001 17:12:42); Mon, 10 Jun 2002 10:41:33 -0600 From: "Kim Baird" To: Message-ID: <000301c210a6$6b523380$6501a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <12c.12a14bc9.2a362c1e@aol.com> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal X-SMTP-HELO: kimathlon X-SMTP-MAIL-FROM: kbaird@cableone.net X-SMTP-RCPT-TO: h-costume@indra.com X-SMTP-PEER-INFO: 186-130.farcpe.cableone.net [24.116.186.130] Subject: [h-cost] Glove etiquette Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 12:44:06 -0500 Status: RO >And what about gloves? I guess you take them off when you eat? >> Victorian women NEVER wore gloves at the table. I suspect the same rule holds today, if anyone is paying attention. Kim _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 10 14:07:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA10770 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 14:07:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5AI21C17121; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 12:02:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5AI21814473; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 12:02:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m09.mx.aol.com (imo-m09.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.164]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5AI17813939 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 12:01:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Azelana@aol.com by imo-m09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 7.53.17d9a400 (2616) for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 14:01:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Azelana@aol.com Message-ID: <53.17d9a400.2a36435b@aol.com> Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Commercial pattern question To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 124 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 14:00:59 EDT Status: RO << A great many of your questions are answered on the Greater Bay Area's Great Pattern Review site: http://www.gbacg.org/Patterns/index.html>> Never knew this existed. Thanks! This will help me greatly. <> Oh no! Temptation! My 2 loves are modern Goth fetish and Elizabethan costume... My fiance' thinks it's hysterical that I'm always wearing too much clothe or not enough. --Gillian _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 10 14:12:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA10806 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 14:12:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5AI74C17559; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 12:07:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5AI73817079; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 12:07:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5AI6n816935 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 12:06:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from C59303A ([12.238.186.197]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020610180643.MHUH11426.rwcrmhc51.attbi.com@C59303A> for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 18:06:43 +0000 Message-ID: <0c3d01c210a9$a2726a80$c5baee0c@mckiny1.tx.home.com> From: "Chiara" To: References: <000301c210a6$6b523380$6501a8c0@kimathlon> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Glove etiquette MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 13:05:04 -0500 Status: RO Actually, they tucked their gloves into that little opening at the wrist. So they did not really wear them but at the same time they did. ;) Sincerely, Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio Steppes, Ansteorra `°ş¤ř,¸¸,ř¤ş°` ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kim Baird" To: Sent: Monday, June 10, 2002 12:44 PM Subject: [h-cost] Glove etiquette > > > >And what about gloves? I guess you take them off when you eat? >> > > Victorian women NEVER wore gloves at the table. I suspect the same rule > holds today, if anyone is paying attention. > > Kim > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 10 14:13:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA10809 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 14:13:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5AI7LC17599; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 12:07:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5AI7H817252; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 12:07:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailjayb.creighton.edu (root@MailjayB.creighton.edu [147.134.2.193]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5AI6p816960 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 12:06:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from brujne (Cindy-Abel.creighton.edu [147.134.201.85]) by mailjayb.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_18546)/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA21825 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 13:06:49 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <001101c210a9$bcc2ddc0$55c98693@creighton.edu> From: "Cynthia Abel" To: References: <6.2a23ad49.2a3523d7@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] French Revolution--new system for numbering the years MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 13:07:51 -0500 Status: RO Try checking Aileen Riberio's book. I think it is entitled Fashion during the French Revolution. I'm probably wrong, but I think the revolutionary gov't backdated year I to 1789. Any good book on the French Revolution("Citizens" is excellent and readily available) should give you the info you need. Unfortunately, most of the books on the Directorie are in French. The "Gallery of Fashion"(English periodical) published from c1793-1804 and up to 1800 can be viewed in black and white(the original plates were in color) on microfilm as part of the series "The History of Women Card Catalog" This series contains thousands of publications preserved on microfilm, most old and rare works of interest to those in women's studies. The "Gallery of Fashion" would be a prime work for Dover Publications to reproduce the best plates in color, especially as those in the "Gallery" were supposed to be of "actually existing fashions" as worn by Englishwomen. Hope this helps! Cindy Abel ILL Coordinator Health Sciences Library Creighton University 2500 California Plaza Omaha NE 68178-0210 Phone: 402. 280-5144 Fax: 402.280-5134 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2002 4:34 PM Subject: [h-cost] French Revolution--new system for numbering the years > I would appreciate some help in dating the French fashion plates from the > Consulat-Directoire period. What was year one? When did they start > renumbering as "ans I, ans II, ans III, ans IV [in Roman numerals]? I really > need to try to pinpoint some probable dates during this period. > Thanks. > Ann Wass > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 10 18:38:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA11892 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 18:38:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5AMXFC19943; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 16:33:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5AMX1805904; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 16:33:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mx12.cluster1.charter.net (dc-mx12.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.8.22]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5AMW5805462 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 16:32:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [66.189.36.255] (HELO [192.168.1.103]) by mx12.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with ESMTP id 27557148 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 18:31:59 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: amandaf@pop.charter.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <1a0.37116fb.2a36346d@aol.com> References: <1a0.37116fb.2a36346d@aol.com> To: h-costume@indra.com From: sustre@pixelations.com Subject: [h-cost] Re: 1760's Corset help? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 18:32:08 -0400 Status: RO I second the advice to check out Farthigale's! They have wonderful stuff, and they're FAST- even though they're in Canada and I'm in the US, when I've ordered I've gotten the stuff within a week. If you're US too, remember that the prices are listed in Canadian dollars and correct for that. :) -Amanda not affiliated, just a happy customer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 10 18:57:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA11956 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 18:57:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5AMq3C21444; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 16:52:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5AMq0815491; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 16:52:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01.attbi.com [204.127.202.61]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5AMpA815072 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 16:51:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default.attbi.com ([24.245.40.15]) by sccrmhc01.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020610225104.KYJE1024.sccrmhc01.attbi.com@default.attbi.com> for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 22:51:04 +0000 Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20020610174227.02628060@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: dannw@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg In-Reply-To: <019901c20b5f$10c8f800$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20020603190959.032a55a0@mail.attbi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] want to drool at jewellery? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 17:50:52 -0500 Status: RO Greetings, For those of you who collect period jewellery - there is some up for auction by the Dupuis auction company. I have happily bought stuff from them before and highly recommend them. You can search the site fairly easily but here are some interesting pieces I've found. Here is the main page: http://dupuis.ca/home/ Here are some of the more inexpensive period items: http://dupuis.ca/home/search_details.php?id=72&category=2&page=2 http://dupuis.ca/home/search_details.php?id=73&category=2&page=2 http://dupuis.ca/home/search_details.php?id=737&category=2&page=19 http://dupuis.ca/home/search_details.php?id=365&category=2&page=10 http://dupuis.ca/home/search_details.php?id=542&category=2&page=15 http://dupuis.ca/home/search_details.php?id=728&category=2&page=18 http://dupuis.ca/home/search_details.php?id=740&category=2&page=19 Cheers, Danielle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 10 23:49:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA13032 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 23:49:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5B3iTC07632; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 21:44:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5B3iR822541; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 21:44:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from epimetheus.hosting4u.net (epimetheus.hosting4u.net [209.15.2.70]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g5B3h1821974 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 21:43:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 19331 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2002 03:43:00 -0000 Received: from libra.hosting4u.net (209.15.2.27) by mail-gate.hosting4u.net with SMTP; 11 Jun 2002 03:43:00 -0000 Received: from ctrlalt ([68.49.47.78]) by libra.hosting4u.net ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 22:42:59 -0500 From: "Allison Thurman" To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004B_01C210D8.8C9CECB0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal X-Rcpt-To: Subject: [h-cost] Rat in trap/deep linking thought Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 23:42:55 -0400 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004B_01C210D8.8C9CECB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've only now started to read the messages about Penny's problem with folks linking to her pages without credit. I do have a suggestion: Embed your home URL somewhere on the image - either as a watermark or in the corner. Many large companies do this because they don't have the time to go running down every individual who tries to steal/link to an image. It does take time but it does mean that any deep linking will have a reference back to the main page. IMHO it's the same philosophy as providing a link back to the home page from every second-level page on the site. Frankly, I think that people linking to your site - even if it's just one image - is a GOOD THING - it brings more traffic to the site and hopefully they will want to look around at more than just that one photo. Providing the home page URL in the image will tell them where to go for more content. Allison ------=_NextPart_000_004B_01C210D8.8C9CECB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Rat in trap/deep linking thought

I've only now started to read the messages about = Penny's problem with folks linking to her pages without credit. I do = have a suggestion:

Embed your home URL somewhere on the image - either as = a watermark or in the corner. Many large companies do this because they = don't have the time to go running down every individual who tries to = steal/link to an image. It does take time but it does mean that any deep = linking will have a reference back to the main page. IMHO it's the same = philosophy as providing a link back to the home page from every = second-level page on the site.

Frankly, I think that people linking to your site - = even if it's just one image - is a GOOD THING - it brings more traffic = to the site and hopefully they will want to look around at more than = just that one photo. Providing the home page URL in the image will tell = them where to go for more content.

Allison

------=_NextPart_000_004B_01C210D8.8C9CECB0-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 11 01:29:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA13220 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 01:29:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5B5O3C12331; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 23:24:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5B5O1826405; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 23:24:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5B5Nn826298 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 23:23:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A9F4D0302A0; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 00:26:12 -0500 Message-ID: <008301c21108$2095e460$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] An Explanation about Image and some tips (long) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 01:23:31 -0400 Status: RO I have been swamped with email about this... one big request is to explain in this in layman terms. So I will try to explain, I used to teach this class in school, so I will try to keep it simple. Bandwidth is a transfer of files on the internet. Some files are large and some small. When you go to the front of my Gallery website, 18 files load, each varying in size. The largest file is the Lady Penny image, the smallest being the books. Every time a visitor clicks that webpage, the 18 files start to load... transferring the files from our website's host to the visitor's computer. This act is called bandwidth transfer. The master html file for the front page of the Gallery was opened 735 times today and we are in our summer slow down time because school is out. On an average day when school is in that one file averages over 1,000 times opened. TERMS: Host (landlord of webspace) Server (the actual machine/computer/hardware that holds all the files for a website and transfers the files over the internet when requested) Hosting (act of renting out web space) Up until a two years ago, large websites paid a modest fee to have their website hosted based on how much space your files take up on the web. Two years ago, website hosts decided they wanted to make more money, so they started charging for the web space hosting and the bandwidth transfer for large or popular websites. This was when you saw a lot of large free websites bite the dust or turn over to pay sites. This was also when you saw a lot of websites go to those annoying pop-up and pop-under ads trying to generate funds. Two years ago was when the hosting prices for my websites went up dramatically, from a small amount to big $$$. Why because? Because my sites were popular and used a lot of bandwidth transfer because of all the images. I am not the only one who had this problem... costumes.org faced the same problem I did at the same time. Talk about panic. With the new way the hosts charge, you are given an allotment of bandwidth transfer per month. If you go over the allotment, you start paying BIG, BIG $$$. It can go up in the thousands. This kill a small business very quickly. So everyone with large sites keeps a tight hold on the amount of bandwidth transfer. Now when someone is bandwidth stealing as this person on livejournal is doing, they were making a link from their website directly to one of my images. Every time my image comes up on their webpage, I paid for the image transferring from my host site to their webpage. The person never asked could they borrow the image, gave a credit link to my website on their website ... they just stole it. The biggest places that do bandwidth stealing is messageboards and these livejournal sites. Now this person who stole my image, is on a kind of webring (for lack of words). When she posted my image in a journal, the image also posted on all of her friends' journals... about 10 different people. This does add up in bandwidth transfer. How I found out people are stealing my bandwidth: My website host has software on my site that tell me everyone who is linked to my website. I can do a type of search in the software to find out what webpages have added new links to my site. Every URL that pops up that I don't recognize, I go to their website to see what they are linked to... this is how I find the bandwidth thieves. I also check the sites linked to me to make sure it is not a site that I do not want to be associated with... like a porn or fetish site. Now if you want to see a demo of the stat software we use go to http://www.deepmetrix.com/livestats6_corp/pdfs.asp You can click on the demo and play with or download a trial version. My version is a little older than this version. SOME WAYS TO PROTECT YOUR IMAGES: As for splitting images that Nicole and I were talking about this morning: There is a free software called Split Image, http://www.thecastle.com/software.html . This will split your images into sections for you to put on the web. This way if someone clicks on you image to save, they will only get a piece of the image and not the whole thing. Some of my expensive images, I have split into 10-12 pieces. Now, you will have to put the images back together in what is called a table. We also send pieces of the images to different locations on our three websites... kinda like hide and seek. We had put the JavaScript "no right click" on our website. This only works if the viewer has JavaScript working (tech word enabled) in their browser. This would stop people from doing a right click on their mouse to copy or save the image. But not all people have JavaScript turned on in their browser. Last month we decided to make people have their Javascript turned on to view the enlarged images on our webpages. When someone clicks on the thumbnail (small image) a pop-up box will appear. You need to have Javascript working on your browser for the pop-up to work. Otherwise, you just get an error message. Now in our pop-ups the menu task bar will not appear. If you go to the Javascript websites, you want to make sure you get the pop-up code that doesn't have the menu bar. A couple of people wrote with the concern that they will not be able to print from our pop-ups. We will start adding that option tomorrow. We will receive that JavaScript code in the morning and will start adding it to the pop-ups. People wanted to know why do we go to such extremes to protect our images. People tend to forget that The Costume Gallery is a business, not a non-profit. We are here to provide a service and make a profit. We thought about charging people to go into the Gallery's Library. But I do not want to stop access to people in second and third world countries from our information. Right now, we have a whole bunch of students from Argentina learning about costume history from the site. I receive on average 20 requests for my images a day. I can't keep giving this away for free. What is involved in making these images: Most people don't realize the amount of time and money that go into these images on our website. Go to http://www.costumegallery.com/LadysFriend/Petticoats/pettbad.jpg This is a typical image that we start out with. The ink on the backside page had bleed through the front side. It took 5 hours of my time in restoring this image to look like this http://www.costumegallery.com/LadysFriend/Petticoats/ click on the first two petticoat thumbnails. It took me three decades of college to learn how to make all this. Not counting the time it took to make the article's webpage, restore the third graphic on the page, and the time to find and purchase the magazine. Now think that we have between 3,000 to 4,000 images on my websites. Now you know why I am online all the time. The two magazines that the articles in A Year in Fashion: 1912 http://www.costumegallery.com/Delineator/May_1912/Magazine.htm cost me over $200 to purchase. Susan and I have spent two years making this one section of the Gallery and are still adding articles to this section today. So as of last month, anyone who wants our images, they are going to have to pay for them. The fee per image is low if you are wanting it for research or a school paper. But if it is going to be published... we get publishers' rates. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 11 02:37:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA08710 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 02:37:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5B6W2C14597; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 00:32:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5B6W0813458; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 00:32:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mclean.mail.mindspring.net (mclean.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.57]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5B6Vo813425 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 00:31:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from user-33qtnbp.dialup.mindspring.com ([199.174.221.121]) by mclean.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17HfC0-00040R-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 02:31:49 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <017f01c21067$b36df940$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> References: <20020610100057.30362.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com> <017f01c21067$b36df940$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> To: h-costume@indra.com From: Chris Laning Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] Re: A Rat in the Trap Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 20:35:43 -0700 Status: RO At 6:15 AM -0400 6/10/02, Penny Ladnier wrote: >Nicole, > >I want to thank you again, for telling me about split image. Susan and I >have been splitting up images like crazy. Now we are putting all of it >index pages to have popups from the thumbnails. Then the people can't view >source. Penny (or Nicole) what's a split image, and how does it prevent people from viewing the source? Or do you mean it prevents them from getting the source's filename and location so they can't download it? Or what? ObCostume (related): PieceWork magazine is having lots of fun (?) trying to track down reprint permission for a couple of the photos they want to use for my upcoming article (Medieval Islamic Knitting, Sept/Oct issue). The editor's latest comment was "Too bad I don't get paid private detective's rates for this!!" The actual knitted pieces started out in a private collection, were given to a European museum where they were on display, then from there went to yet _another_ museum in one of the Islamic countries. The European museum has photos, but can't release them without permission from the Islamic museum, which actually holds the pieces. At least they're in a country that's not currently at war or anything.....! -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 11 02:42:29 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA08725 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 02:42:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5B6b1C14746; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 00:37:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5B6b0814502; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 00:37:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5B6aO814384 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 00:36:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id AAF739220254; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 01:38:47 -0500 Message-ID: <00d801c21112$3e55f760$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <3D04D665.B2E993F9@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] A Rat in the Trap X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 02:35:56 -0400 Status: RO Fran, Thank you for the article link. It is a really good article. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 11 03:15:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA08826 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 03:15:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5B7A2C15759; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 01:10:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5B7A0822490; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 01:10:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13308.mail.yahoo.com (web13308.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.44]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g5B79o822432 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 01:09:51 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020611070950.13322.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13308.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 08:09:50 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] An Explanation about Image and some tips (long) To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <008301c21108$2095e460$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 08:09:50 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Penny Ladnier wrote: > *huge snippage* Just one question, does everyone in the US charge via bandwidth? It's interesting, because I pay over 300 pounds per year for my web site hosting (and yes _I_ pay it out of _MY_ pockets and I am totally uncommercial and do not ask anyone for anything back, because I'm an academic, not a business) but I do NOT pay for bandwidth at all. I can have any transfer and it doesn't matter thusly I can slap as many pix and graphics on as I want. They even gave me 50 additional Meg space for free because they are sweeties and I am one of their rather few completely uncommercial sites who are mad enough to pay for nuffin'. They are great, the service is amazing and the reliability as well, their support guarantees and answer within 3 hours and it is true, they do. They are located in England. Their fee appears to be high, but in the end, listening to all these bandwidth payments, it isn't. http://www.positive-internet.com Not affiliated, just a very happy customer for years. Nicole (who still goes just as bonkers and mad when someone links directly to images) ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 11 03:25:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA08851 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 03:25:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5B7J1C15988; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 01:19:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5B7J1824551; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 01:19:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5B7IF824388 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 01:18:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A4C626B7020C; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 02:20:38 -0500 Message-ID: <011f01c21118$11187ce0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] Learn from the Masters Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 03:17:37 -0400 Status: RO I just got this today from another list. Hey if you have the money... go for it: Announcing: A Master Class in Costume Design with Constance Hoffman At the Kennedy Center, from July 14-27. This intensive master class will explore the costume design process using The Tempest and Brecht/Weill’s The Rise and Fall of the City of Mahagonny, And project work from Ovid’s Metamorphosis, Shakespeare’s Sonnets, Glass/Wilson’s The Civil WarS. Class times: 10am-6pm, Monday 15th through Saturday 20th, Sunday 21st off , 10am-6pm Monday 22nd thru Friday 26th . Participation: 12 designers, made up of faculty and students, will be accepted. Tuition: $800 for the master class $750 for faculty or students from Kennedy Center American College Theater Festival participating institutions or members of USITT $700 for faculty and students whose home institutions are offering scholarship or professional development support for this opportunity Housing: Is not included in the tuition, but is available on a first-come-first-served basis for those who need it, at a rate of $35 per night- or $455 for the entire master class period- shared lodging- in the George Washington University Residence Halls, within easy walking distance to the Kennedy Center. Sondheim Celebration Tickets: Passion and Merrily We Roll Along tickets are available to participants of this master class at a special rate of $40 each. The Teacher: Constance Hoffman. Current- Seascape, Hartford Stage Upcoming- When You Wish- Disney Theatricals. With Julie Taymor: Titus Andronicus, The Flying Dutchman, The Green Bird (Tony Nomination, Outer Critics Circle Award). Opera: Tosca, Madama Butterfly, L’Etoile, Acis and Galatea, Tosca, Paul Bunyan, The Abduction from the Seraglio, Lizzie Borden (Glimmerglass/NYCO); Rigoletto (San Francisco); The Merchant of the Pauper (Opera Theatre of St. Louis); La Traviata (Houston Grand/New Israeli); Giulio Cesare (Florida Grand/Virginia), Little Vixen (Portland); Queen of Spades (Bavarian State Opera) NY Theatre: Macbeth, Richard II, Richard III, Measure for Measure, Henry VI (Theatre for a New Audience); Henry VI (Public Theatre). Tiny Alice (Second Stage) Regional: Center Stage, Hartford Stage, Alley Theatre. Theatre Development Fund Irene Sharaff Young Master Award in 2000. MFA, Tisch School of the Arts. To Apply- Designers: -A letter stating and detailing your interest in participating in the master class -A resume detailing your design and related experience -Up-to six color Xeroxes or digital photos from your portfolio that best represents your work Send to: Gregg Henry Department of Education The Kennedy Center Box 10808 Arlington, Virginia 22210 Or to: ghenry@kennedy-center.org by: Wednesday, June 19. Participants will be notified by June 21 . _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 11 03:39:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA08901 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 03:39:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5B7Y1C16425; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 01:34:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5B7Y1828052; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 01:34:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5B7X4827810 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 01:33:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A84039790254; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 02:35:28 -0500 Message-ID: <016301c2111a$222d2100$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <4948C1F7FBF@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Teddy-diva?? (WAS: Usage of "the") X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 03:32:25 -0400 Status: RO Teddy, It was the Tanu photo on Maggie's site. I love that photo! Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 11 04:37:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA09076 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 04:37:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5B8W2C18494; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 02:32:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5B8W1810870; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 02:32:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5B8VC810692 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 02:31:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KISSVX5KPS00J0AM@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 09:34:10 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KISSVTICG000J9KS@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 09:34:04 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 11 Jun 2002 09:28:13 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 11 Jun 2002 09:27:55 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.76) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 09:27:54 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: [h-cost] Re: braid for saxon tunic In-reply-to: <200206101801.g5AI1h814299@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4A6C25E21D1@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from Quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g5B8VC810692 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 09:27:54 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > Tablet braid and inkle braid are obviously both correct - I agree > that using modern bought braid looks awful (and would be an > abomination!). > > I know of two suppliers of tablet braid, (of whom only one will > deal with anybody they don't know). Tanya, of Tanya's Tablet > Weave. Last time I bought braid from her she had a waiting list of > around 3 months and cost Ł50 for a tunic length of 20ft. She's > listed in Call to Arms. Thanks, I'll pass that on. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 11 09:30:14 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA14371 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 09:30:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5BDOlC27083; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 07:24:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5BDOg818323; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 07:24:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5BDLg817430 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 07:21:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comcast.net (pcp670884pcs.indpnd01.mo.comcast.net [68.34.234.170]) by mtaout04.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.8 (built May 13 2002)) with ESMTP id <0GXJ00F4CME18D@mtaout04.icomcast.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 09:20:25 -0400 (EDT) From: "Linda J. Thompson" To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <3D05F8DB.206@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 Subject: [h-cost] Sewing legality question.... Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 08:19:23 -0500 Status: RO I am on another list and a discussion is going on regarding the use of commercial patterns, copyright, and whether it is legal to charge someone for creating an item from the pattern. It came up actually when others were discussing Drea's Corset pattern generator. I said I did not think it was legal for someone to use her pattern generator to create patterns and then get paid for making the item. And others said it is fine as long as you are selling the service of a custom made garment as a seamstress. Sometime in my past...I was told that it is "technically" illegal to use a commercial pattern, for personal profit. You can use it for your own personal use, but not for profit. Or does that pertain only to the actual purchase of the pattern. Such as, you could make the item, if a seperate purchase of it is made for each individual item you make for someone? My question, is this a violation of copyright law or not? -- Linda Thompson Visit www.seams-to-be.com where Attitude is Everything _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 11 10:02:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA14591 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 10:02:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5BDvMC28743; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 07:57:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5BDvL829246; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 07:57:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.10]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5BDos827063 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 07:50:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [132.236.139.158] ([132.236.139.158]) by postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA09349 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 09:50:49 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3D05F8DB.206@comcast.net> To: h-costume@indra.com From: "M. Stewart" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing legality question.... Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 09:50:45 -0700 Status: RO Hi Linda... and all.... It is not illegal to use your pattern that you purchased to make a garment to give or to sell to someone else. The garment is a product of your work, and the pattern is a tool that you used to make it. Allow me to go into computer lingo for a minute I use Flash, a software program, as a tool in my work. I have made several pieces for different customers, and only one copy of flash. I am not obliged to buy a new copy for every customer. Just as a carpenter is not obliged to buy a new hammer for every job. They are the tools of our trades... Hope this helps. Also there is a short course on copyright at the following URL: http://www.utsystem.edu/OGC/IntellectualProperty/cprtindx.htm Mari >Sometime in my past...I was told that it is "technically" illegal to use a >commercial >pattern, for personal profit. You can use it for your own personal use, >but not for >profit. Or does that pertain only to the actual purchase of the pattern. >Such as, you >could make the item, if a seperate purchase of it is made for each >individual item you >make for someone? > >My question, is this a violation of copyright law or not? Mari Stewart, Cornell University, Ithaca, NY _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 11 12:31:14 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA19865 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 12:31:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5BGP4C13000; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 10:25:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5BGP0815799; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 10:25:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from b.smtp-out.sonic.net (b.smtp-out.sonic.net [208.201.224.39]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g5BGOA815237 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 10:24:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 29489 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2002 15:18:25 -0000 Received: from ultra.sonic.net (208.201.224.22) by b.smtp-out.sonic.net with SMTP; 11 Jun 2002 15:18:25 -0000 Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-100-54.sonic.net [209.148.100.54]) by ultra.sonic.net (8.11.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id g5BGO9801445 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 09:24:09 -0700 X-envelope-info: Message-ID: <3D062517.3AC6B5E1@lavoltapress.com> From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] An Explanation about Image and some tips (long) References: <20020611070950.13322.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 09:28:07 -0700 Status: RO > All US ISPs have different "deals" in terms of prices for web hosting, dial-up, message mailboxes, domain name registration, software that trcks web traffic, etc. Some ISPs are national, some more local. If you need a new ISP you have to shop around and talk to them about what package of services you want. If you want your web host to also provide your dial-up services (which in my opinion is more convenient), they have to have a dial-up number within your local phone area (which probably eliminates European ISPs for US customers). Our ISPs have always sold us packages with a certain amount of web host space and a certain amount of bandwidth. We can use any amount of web space or bandwidth within those limits. If we exceed the web space or bandwidth, our ISP will bump us up to a more expensive monthly package/rate. Although we can certainly control how large our site is (and we could make it much larger without exceeding our limit) we can't control how many people access it. It seems fair to me that ISPs charge for more usage. But, it doesn't seem fair that the site owner has to pay for more bandwidth that consists only of someone else "using" their images by linking to the image files only. This does not actually generate any traffic to the rest of the site hosting the images. The people browsing the images probably don't even know where they come from. Which is why it's generally considered discourteous to link to images only. Linking to separate images is really a very different issue from linking to the main web page of a site, or even a subpage with something on it besides one image. The ISP fees you are paying seem roughly comparable to ones in the US, given the size of your site. Fran > > > Just one question, does everyone in the US charge via bandwidth? It's > interesting, because I pay over 300 pounds per year for my web site hosting > (and yes _I_ pay it out of _MY_ pockets and I am totally uncommercial and do > not ask anyone for anything back, because I'm an academic, not a business) but > I do NOT pay for bandwidth at all. I can have any transfer and it doesn't > matter thusly I can slap as many pix and graphics on as I want. They even gave > me 50 additional Meg space for free because they are sweeties and I am one of > their rather few completely uncommercial sites who are mad enough to pay for > nuffin'. > They are great, the service is amazing and the reliability as well, their > support guarantees and answer within 3 hours and it is true, they do. They are > located in England. Their fee appears to be high, but in the end, listening to > all these bandwidth payments, it isn't. > > http://www.positive-internet.com > > Not affiliated, just a very happy customer for years. > > Nicole > (who still goes just as bonkers and mad when someone links directly to images) > > ===== > Nicole Kipar M.A. > Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs > Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 > URL: http://www.kipar.org/ > Email: marquis@kipar.org > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- --------------------------------------------- Visit our web pages! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and vintage dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 11 13:25:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA20238 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 13:25:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5BHK6C19107; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 11:20:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5BHK1819670; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 11:20:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ns.misc.com (h-66-134-203-2.SNVACAID.covad.net [66.134.203.2]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5BHIx819004 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 11:19:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from misc.com (mac.misc.com [192.168.254.109]) by ns.misc.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA13564 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 10:19:51 -0700 Message-ID: <3D06320C.7707EEA0@misc.com> From: Theresa Eacker X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] An Explanation about Image and some tips (long) References: <20020611070950.13322.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 10:23:26 -0700 Status: RO To Nicole- When one of the URLS to your images gets posted to the list with a historical/period attire question attached, does that mean we've (the liste) infringed on your copyright and that we should ask you first before we do this? Cowering, Theresa Eacker N Kipar wrote:(Massive pruning): Nicole > (who still goes just as bonkers and mad when someone links directly to images) > > ===== > Nicole Kipar M.A. > Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs > Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 > URL: http://www.kipar.org/ > Email: marquis@kipar.org _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 11 13:39:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA20274 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 13:39:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5BHY3C20553; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 11:34:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5BHY2827654; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 11:34:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from a.smtp-out.sonic.net (a.smtp-out.sonic.net [208.201.224.38]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g5BHXB827112 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 11:33:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 991 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2002 17:33:10 -0000 Received: from prop.sonic.net (208.201.224.193) by a.smtp-out.sonic.net with SMTP; 11 Jun 2002 17:33:10 -0000 Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-100-54.sonic.net [209.148.100.54]) by prop.sonic.net (8.11.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id g5BHX9h21031 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 10:33:10 -0700 X-envelope-info: Message-ID: <3D063544.C7F2FC65@lavoltapress.com> From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] An Explanation about Image and some tips (long) References: <20020611070950.13322.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com> <3D06320C.7707EEA0@misc.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 10:37:08 -0700 Status: RO As several people have explained, this is not a copyright issue. I certainly think it would be courteous and reasonable to ask permission to do anything likely to increase someone's montly ISP payments, such as deep linking to their images on your site. BTW, I don't know the name of this software but--there is software that will route people to your main web page (or whichever you specify) rather than image or page that was actually linked to. Fran Theresa Eacker wrote: > To Nicole- > > When one of the URLS to your images gets posted to the list with a > historical/period attire question attached, does that mean we've (the > liste) infringed on your copyright and that we should ask you first > before we do this? > > Cowering, > > Theresa Eacker nce _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 11 14:26:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA24472 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 14:26:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5BIL4C25035; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 12:21:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5BIL1824641; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 12:21:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5BIKh824462 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 12:20:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.35.247]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GXK00AW60AIYO@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 11:20:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing legality question.... In-reply-to: X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020611111822.00c76b60@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <3D05F8DB.206@comcast.net> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 11:20:07 -0700 Status: RO >It is not illegal to use your pattern that you purchased to make a garment >to give or to sell to someone else. The garment is a product of your >work, and the pattern is a tool that you used to make it. > >Allow me to go into computer lingo for a minute > >I use Flash, a software program, as a tool in my work. I have made >several pieces for different customers, and only one copy of flash. I am >not obliged to buy a new copy for every customer. Just as a carpenter is >not obliged to buy a new hammer for every job. They are the tools of our >trades... > >Hope this helps. >Also there is a short course on copyright at the following URL: >http://www.utsystem.edu/OGC/IntellectualProperty/cprtindx.htm OTOH, I have seen some patterns for things, like jackets and cloth dolls, where the designer says, right on the envelope, that they only give permission for selling a certain number of items made from that pattern, or that they give no permission to do so at all. Please explain this? Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 11 14:45:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA24545 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 14:45:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5BIe5C26739; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 12:40:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5BIe2805608; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 12:40:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from b.smtp-out.sonic.net (b.smtp-out.sonic.net [208.201.224.39]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g5BIde805410 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 12:39:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 11032 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2002 17:33:53 -0000 Received: from prop.sonic.net (208.201.224.193) by b.smtp-out.sonic.net with SMTP; 11 Jun 2002 17:33:53 -0000 Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-100-54.sonic.net [209.148.100.54]) by prop.sonic.net (8.11.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id g5BIdc324428 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 11:39:38 -0700 X-envelope-info: Message-ID: <3D0644D8.3E09DC5@lavoltapress.com> From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing legality question.... References: <3D05F8DB.206@comcast.net> <4.3.1.2.20020611111822.00c76b60@mail.frys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 11:43:36 -0700 Status: RO > >It is not illegal to use your pattern that you purchased to make a garment > >to give or to sell to someone else. The garment is a product of your > >work, and the pattern is a tool that you used to make it. I have seen web postings by some major pattern companies explaining their licensing agreements. The ones I have seen have different rules for making a garment for yourself with one copy of a pattern (OK) as opposed to multiple uses of the same pattern for paying customers (not OK). It is necessary to find out what rules for use are imposed by that pattern company. > > > > >Allow me to go into computer lingo for a minute > > > >I use Flash, a software program, as a tool in my work. I have made > >several pieces for different customers, and only one copy of flash. I am > >not obliged to buy a new copy for every customer. Just as a carpenter is > >not obliged to buy a new hammer for every job. They are the tools of our > >trades... > > I use a variety of graphics software and fonts for my publishing business. Different companies have different licensing agreements. I am allowed to install some software on only one computer, some other software on up to five computers. I have fonts that I am allowed to send to a book printer for termporary use for my job, but not for them to keep permanently. What is legally required is not that "all software can be installed on X number of machines" but that "users have to abide by the licensing agreement they made with that software company," You'll note that when you install software, you often have to click on a box saying you abide by the licensing agreement before you can proceed with the installation. Fran --------------------------------------------- Visit our web pages! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and vintage dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 11 14:53:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA24562 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 14:53:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5BIlAC27414; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 12:47:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5BIl7809407; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 12:47:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from WDNE2K.mackie.com ([12.144.236.152]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5BIkH808916 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 12:46:17 -0600 (MDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.5762.3 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: 14th century Italian chemise documentation Thread-Index: AcIReC+DqLsIC1AmQ82nN+jg+sY0rQ== From: "Colleen McDonald" To: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g5BIkH808916 Subject: [h-cost] 14th century Italian chemise documentation Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 11:45:43 -0700 Status: RO Hello all, I've been digging and digging on this topic and thought I would see if anyone on the list had additional information or suggestions on where to find more documentation on 14th century Italian chemises. I have the Bohemian Bathhouse babes (from Sronkova's Gothic Woman's Fashion) and I have the extant chemise shown in Kohler's book - neither of which is Italian. I'm checking literary sources of the time (Boccaccio, at the moment and have been working through both The Merchant of Prato and The Book of the Knight of the Tower). I've looked at what seems to be just about every painting or fresco that has been published from the time period - that list is too long to add here. I also have the Museum of London series, Fashion in the Age of the Black Prince, and a Visual History of Costume - 14th and 15th Centuries. Any other sources that I should be looking at? Any major ones that I've missed? I'm trying to finish this part of the research up, so that I can get the chemise made and get on with the dress. Thanks in advance for any help/suggestions. Colleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 11 14:55:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA24575 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 14:55:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5BIo1C27685; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 12:50:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5BIo0811064; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 12:50:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from b.smtp-out.sonic.net (b.smtp-out.sonic.net [208.201.224.39]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g5BInr811008 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 12:49:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 11959 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2002 17:44:07 -0000 Received: from prop.sonic.net (208.201.224.193) by b.smtp-out.sonic.net with SMTP; 11 Jun 2002 17:44:07 -0000 Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-100-54.sonic.net [209.148.100.54]) by prop.sonic.net (8.11.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id g5BInpT01772 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 11:49:52 -0700 X-envelope-info: Message-ID: <3D06473E.111957C6@lavoltapress.com> From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing legality question....again References: <3D05F8DB.206@comcast.net> <4.3.1.2.20020611111822.00c76b60@mail.frys.com> <3D0644D8.3E09DC5@lavoltapress.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 11:53:50 -0700 Status: RO BTW, just to make it clear, making garments from a pattern (as opposed to making copies of the paper pattern per se) is not a copyright issue. Garments are not copyrightable. However, pattern companies can and do legally impose restrictions on commercial use of their patterns for making garments. Fran _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 11 15:42:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24792 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 15:42:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5BJb3C03724; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 13:37:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5BJb1808118; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 13:37:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.10]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5BJa4807567 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 13:36:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [132.236.139.158] ([132.236.139.158]) by postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA14407 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 15:36:02 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20020611111822.00c76b60@mail.frys.com> References: <3D05F8DB.206@comcast.net> To: h-costume@indra.com From: "M. Stewart" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing legality question.... Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 15:35:57 -0700 Status: RO Hi Katya... and all... I'm not a copyright expert... I've had some exposure in my job, and in my family... so that said here goes... I have had copyright law described to me as a pendulum, moving back and forth between the public/user and the creator/author. It seems like a good metaphor to explain the changes in copyright law in the past 70 years. Initially (at the founding of the nation) copyright law was heavily designed to protect the user. So that satires, quotes, derivative works and the like could be freely produced. Over the last 100 odd years, these expansive rights have been eroded, and the pendulum has moved steadily towards protecting the monetary earning potential of a work. (I'm going to cut to the chase here... this could get WAY too long). >OTOH, I have seen some patterns for things, like jackets and cloth dolls, >where the designer says, right on the envelope, that they only give >permission for selling a certain number of items made from that pattern, or >that they give no permission to do so at all. Please explain this? This case it sounds like an effort being made to license the product. There is an analogy in the computer world, large companies that buy software. Often a company has many workers who need a piece of software, like a word processing program. The company may buy from the software manufacturer a single copy of the software, and then all the licences it needs in order to give everyone in the office a "Legal" installation of that software. This is where copyright law, legal tradition, technology and morals collide. Some will argue using the hammer analogy, that what people have made is a tool, and therefore you only need to buy one. Others will argue "fair use" and say that you may make copies for yourself but no one else. Another angle is derivative creations from a single source, and how much of your creativity places you in the author's seat. Look at that link on copyright law... or pick up a copy of Copyright Law In a Nutshell. Mari Mari Stewart, Cornell University, Ithaca NY _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 11 16:04:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA24971 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 16:04:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5BJv2C05610; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 13:57:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5BJv1819622; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 13:57:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5BJuo819512 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 13:56:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28229 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 15:19:56 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] 14th century Italian chemise documentation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 15:19:56 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Tue, 11 Jun 2002, Colleen McDonald wrote: > I've been digging and digging on this topic and thought I would see if > anyone on the list had additional information or suggestions on where > to find more documentation on 14th century Italian chemises. As you noted in your post, none of the sources you've found are Italian. I'm afraid I can't help much in that respect, as I don't spend a lot of time with Italian sources myself. However, I do collect images of chemises from Western Europe, and I can add to your collection of those, and maybe offer you some new avenues of research for your Italian sources. My favorite source for chemises (and many other things) is a wonderful coffee-table edition of a Flemish manuscript of Boccaccio's Decameron from about 1430. My edition was published by Pognon in the Illuminated Manuscripts series (mid-1970s) under the title _Boccaccio's Decameron_; you might find it in a library. The original manuscript is in the Bibliotheque l"Arsenal in Paris, ms. 5070. It has about 200 illustrations (2 per story), nearly all of them showing Regular People from a range of social classes. Since some of the tales involve bawdy activities or marital infedelity, there are a handful of images of women (and men!) in underwear. Women's chemises are invariably calf-length, narrow-bodied, and scoop-necked and have narrow full-length sleeves. I also have picked up a few images from scenes of martyrdoms -- e.g. Joan of Arc at the stake. In many cases, female martyrs are shown in their shifts. For these, look through books of hours. Lots of them! Finally, I keep my eye out for books on the history of medicine and also books covering childbirth and women's health. Sometimes you find an illumination of a woman in childbed or being examined by a doctor. Some of these women are in shifts. For Italian, I think you can apply the same strategies: Martyrdoms, illustrations of bawdy tales, medical miniatures. The only sleeveless chemises I have seen are in Sronkova, so I don't know if that's something specific to bathhouse attendents, Bohemia, or the Wenceslaus Bible artist. The chemise I use for 14th and 15th century has mostly straight seam construction. The body is slightly trapezoidal -- visually it looks like a rectangle -- with narrow skirt gores starting at the waist (two in each side seam). The sleeves are as narrow as I can manage and still flex my arm, because they are to go under narrow-sleeved fitted dresses. I use gussets under the arms; this also gives me necessary expansion in the bust without adding bulk at the waist. For the neck, I cut a scoop (shallow in the back, deeper in the front so it won't show from under my fitted dress necklines), and then, while wearing it, I finger-pleat (and pin) a few tucks into the scoop so it lies exactly flat on my body. It takes four or five tiny pinches in the back neck, about seven in the front. I then bind the neckline with a strip of linen. You can see similar tucks and binding in some of the chemise images. All the pieces come out of a pretty narrow piece of linen, with essentially no waste except for what's cut out of the neckline hole. One of the tricks is to not try to cut the shoulder width to your shoulder size -- you cut it wider, and adjust that with the finger-pleating. That way you don't need a huge angle on the front and back pieces to get the necessary width at the bust. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 11 16:49:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25316 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 16:49:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5BKi2C10091; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 14:44:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5BKi0816769; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 14:44:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from WDNE2K.mackie.com ([12.144.236.152]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5BKhi816609 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 14:43:45 -0600 (MDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.5762.3 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: RE: [h-cost] 14th century Italian chemise documentation Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [h-cost] 14th century Italian chemise documentation Thread-Index: AcIRgjMStdaYIAURQfWFcGFgJxrswQABIQXg From: "Colleen McDonald" To: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g5BKhi816609 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 13:40:14 -0700 Status: RO Thanks for the great ideas, Robin. I've already put holds on just about every book on illumination in our local library system and they had the Decameron that you recommended as well. <> There is also the extant 14th century sleeveless chemise shown in Kohler's book. It actually comes from a book by Moriz Heyne, published in 1903, and was found at Castle Rahnis in what was East Germany in 1867. I've written to the museum at the Castle and it vanished after the Russians came through at the end of the war. I have some contacts in Russia checking to see if it has shown up anywhere in the Moscow museums. more snips <> For the stuff that I've been researching, there seem to be two dresses that go over the chemise as opposed to lining one dress and I'm wondering if I'm going to be able to flex my arm with three layers of fabric at the elbow. That's why the sleeveless chemises were intriguing to me. more snips <> Robin, is this assuming a fairly ample bustline? I have an underdress that I made for my last outfit that I was able to fit snugly at the bustline without lacing and without pleating extra fabric in at the neckline - I am not amply proportioned there. Thanks again for the help! Colleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 11 17:47:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA25860 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 17:47:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5BLg4C15992; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 15:42:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5BLg1820889; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 15:42:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5BLfb820659 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 15:41:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA28937 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 17:04:43 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] 14th century Italian chemise documentation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 17:04:43 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Tue, 11 Jun 2002, Colleen McDonald wrote: > < know if that's something specific to bathhouse attendents, Bohemia, or > the Wenceslaus Bible artist.>> > > There is also the extant 14th century sleeveless chemise shown in > Kohler's book. It actually comes from a book by Moriz Heyne, > published in 1903, and was found at Castle Rahnis in what was East > Germany in 1867. I've written to the museum at the Castle and it > vanished after the Russians came through at the end of the war. I > have some contacts in Russia checking to see if it has shown up > anywhere in the Moscow museums. Well, you have found more than I have, then! I have never felt comfortable using this based on the little in Kohler because so much of what is in Kohler doesn't hold up, or was wrongly interpreted. So, without some better background, I have to wonder, for example, on what basis it was determined that this item was 14th century, and whether we can be sure it is a woman's chemise, and whether it underwent any restoration or reworking. Perhaps some of this is in Heyne's book? I haven't seen that. If you do find out anything concrete, let us know! In any case, it's apparently German, which could put it in the same tradition as the Bohemian sleeveless shifts -- and a different type than the long-sleeved ones I'm more interested in, that appear in the manuscripts from England/France/Flanders. I don't know whether Italy would have been more likely to go one way or the other. > < arm, because they are to go under narrow-sleeved fitted dresses.>> > > For the stuff that I've been researching, there seem to be two dresses > that go over the chemise as opposed to lining one dress and I'm > wondering if I'm going to be able to flex my arm with three layers of > fabric at the elbow. That's why the sleeveless chemises were > intriguing to me. Speaking for myself, I have had absolutely no trouble with mobility while wearing three or more layers over the elbow. But I also fit my dress sleeves around the elbow, with my arm at mid-flex as a neutral (default) position, so I have some leeway both to flex further and to straighten. And of course I fit over the chemise. I like having the chemise sleeves. I think they make the fitted sleeves more comfortable to wear, just like socks make shoes more comfortable. > < shoulder size -- you cut it wider, and adjust that with the > finger-pleating. That way you don't need a huge angle on the front and > back pieces to get the necessary width at the bust.>> > > Robin, is this assuming a fairly ample bustline? I have an underdress > that I made for my last outfit that I was able to fit snugly at the > bustline without lacing and without pleating extra fabric in at the > neckline - I am not amply proportioned there. I am definitely ample, or -- perhaps more important -- I have a striking difference between shoulder and bust widths. If I did not, I suppose I might not want the tucks. Still, "pleating extra fabric" is actually an overstatement, as it brings to my mind large quantities of excess. In my case, the tucks at the neckline are very tiny, and serve mostly to shape the neckline to lie smoothly along the top of my bust. I started doing it this way because I saw it in images, and I found it eliminated the bumps and lumps my earlier chemises formed under the fitted dress, as they struggled to cope with the sudden expansion between my shoulder and bust measurement. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 11 17:59:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA25952 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 17:59:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5BLs3C17068; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 15:54:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5BLs2827786; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 15:54:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta02ps.bigpond.com (mta02ps.bigpond.com [144.135.25.134]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5BLrT827496 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 15:53:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bigpond.com ([144.135.25.87]) by mta02ps.bigpond.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 mta02ps Apr 29 2002 13:22:02) with SMTP id GXKA4X00.7AO for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 07:53:21 +1000 Received: from 203.54.114.26 ([203.54.114.26]) by psmam07.mailsvc.email.bigpond.com(MailRouter V3.0n 119/1266649); 12 Jun 2002 07:53:17 Message-ID: <3D0760F7.CD2107EB@bigpond.com> From: Claire Clarke Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] 14th century Italian chemise documentation References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 07:55:51 -0700 Status: RO Colleen McDonald wrote: > more snips > < arm, because they are to go under narrow-sleeved fitted dresses.>> > > For the stuff that I've been researching, there seem to be two dresses that go over the chemise as opposed to lining one dress and I'm wondering if I'm going to be able to flex my arm with three layers of fabric at the elbow. That's why the sleeveless chemises were intriguing to me. > For what it's worth, from experience, not a problem. I've worn a sleeved chemise with a kirtle and cote-hardie over the top, all with fairly close-fitting sleeves, with no trouble. I expect it would be easier if you fit your sleeve well, perhaps with a curve at the elbow. Claire _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 11 18:30:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA26147 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 18:30:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5BMPCC19930; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 16:25:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5BMPB816558; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 16:25:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from a.smtp-out.sonic.net (a.smtp-out.sonic.net [208.201.224.38]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g5BMOs816280 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 16:24:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 31341 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2002 22:24:53 -0000 Received: from sub.sonic.net (208.201.224.8) by a.smtp-out.sonic.net with SMTP; 11 Jun 2002 22:24:53 -0000 Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-100-189.sonic.net [209.148.100.189]) by sub.sonic.net (8.11.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id g5BMOrs20543 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 15:24:53 -0700 X-envelope-info: Message-ID: <3D0679A3.B444F9D5@lavoltapress.com> From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing legality question.... References: <3D05F8DB.206@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 15:28:51 -0700 Status: RO As I mentioned, the issue of how many garments can be made from the same copy of a pattern is _not_ a copyright issue. It is a licensing issue, it may be a patent issue, but it is not a copyright issue. However illogical it may seem, paper patterns are covered by copyright law, which governs copying the _pattern_ itself--but has nothing to do with _garments_ made from the pattern. I would strongly suggest contacting the manufacturer of the pattern in question to see what their licensing agreement is for use of their patterns. To explicitly clarify something people seem confused about--there are laws other than copyright law governing the use of printed matter, software, and other forms of information. They may exist instead of or in addition to copyright protection, depending on the situation. These include patent laws, laws regarding ownership of a physical object (such as a painting in a museum), contract laws, slander and libel laws, and others. A knowledge of copyright law is really of no use whatever in interpreting other laws. Fran This is where copyright law, legal tradition, technology and morals > collide. Some will argue using the hammer analogy, that what people > have made is a tool, and therefore you only need to buy one. Others will > argue "fair use" and say that you may make copies for yourself but no one > else. Another angle is derivative creations from a single source, and how > much of your creativity places you in the author's seat. > --------------------------------------------- Visit our web pages! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and vintage dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 11 20:26:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA26532 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 20:26:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5C0L7C28609; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 18:21:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5C0L1807912; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 18:21:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailhost.softwareinnovation.com (w002.z064000176.dfw-tx.dsl.cnc.net [64.0.176.2]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5C0Ks807859 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 18:20:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from theforce [64.0.176.2] by mailhost.softwareinnovation.com (SMTPD32-6.00) id A40E4B02F0; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 19:21:34 -0500 From: "Betsy Marshall" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Sewing legality question.... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <3D0679A3.B444F9D5@lavoltapress.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 19:21:34 -0500 Status: RO and, just to chime in, the price of the pattern is probably fairly small compared to the total charge for professional custom dressmaking. just include it under material expenses and give it to the customer?(all customized for her and everything?) Just my $.02. Betsy -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On Behalf Of Lavolta Press Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2002 5:29 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing legality question.... As I mentioned, the issue of how many garments can be made from the same copy of a pattern is _not_ a copyright issue. It is a licensing issue, it may be a patent issue, but it is not a copyright issue. However illogical it may seem, paper patterns are covered by copyright law, which governs copying the _pattern_ itself--but has nothing to do with _garments_ made from the pattern. I would strongly suggest contacting the manufacturer of the pattern in question to see what their licensing agreement is for use of their patterns. To explicitly clarify something people seem confused about--there are laws other than copyright law governing the use of printed matter, software, and other forms of information. They may exist instead of or in addition to copyright protection, depending on the situation. These include patent laws, laws regarding ownership of a physical object (such as a painting in a museum), contract laws, slander and libel laws, and others. A knowledge of copyright law is really of no use whatever in interpreting other laws. Fran This is where copyright law, legal tradition, technology and morals > collide. Some will argue using the hammer analogy, that what people > have made is a tool, and therefore you only need to buy one. Others will > argue "fair use" and say that you may make copies for yourself but no one > else. Another angle is derivative creations from a single source, and how > much of your creativity places you in the author's seat. > --------------------------------------------- Visit our web pages! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and vintage dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 11 21:12:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA26648 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 21:12:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5C172C01186; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 19:07:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5C171822534; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 19:07:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dc-mx03.cluster1.charter.net (dc-mx03.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.8.13]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5C169822265 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 19:06:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [66.189.36.255] (HELO [192.168.1.103]) by dc-mx03.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with ESMTP id 24844095 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 21:06:03 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: amandaf@pop.charter.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3D0679A3.B444F9D5@lavoltapress.com> References: <3D05F8DB.206@comcast.net> <3D0679A3.B444F9D5@lavoltapress.com> To: h-costume@indra.com From: sustre@pixelations.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing legality question.... Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 21:06:13 -0400 Status: RO Fran said: >As I mentioned, the issue of how many garments can be made from the >same copy of >a pattern is _not_ a copyright issue. It is a licensing issue, it may be a >patent issue, but it is not a copyright issue. However illogical it may seem, >paper patterns are covered by copyright law, which governs copying >the _pattern_ >itself--but has nothing to do with _garments_ made from the pattern. Is there a specific legal exemption for garments then? Because otherwise under copyright law a garment made from a pattern would be covered under copyright as a "derivative work"- a work made from or by using a copyrighted work. None of the copyright info I've read, though, discusses clothing per se, and I know there are some exceptions built in- like typefaces. No one can copyright a typeface BUT they can copyright the lead bits or the computer code that makes it usable for printing; it doesn't stop someone from starting from scratch and doing one that looks just like it, though. But type is a specific exception to the norm (as are recipes, BTW!). So I'm curious about whether garments have such an exception written in. Licensing also comes into it, of course, as potentially do trademark, patents, and possibly even design patents. Truly complex... -Amanda curious _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 11 21:28:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA26682 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 21:28:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5C1N1C02029; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 19:23:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5C1N0827585; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 19:23:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5C1MM827345 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 19:22:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.133.149.151] (pm5-151.eos.net [205.133.149.151]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA22722 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 21:22:19 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <000001c210f0$c26acd90$d47ba8c0@home1> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] pattern question Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 21:14:14 -0400 Status: RO Folks: Can anyone help with the forwarded message below? Please reply to the list or to me, and I'll forward to the writer. I did look at the pattern-review page so helpfully posted yesterday (when I got this!) but there was no name like this on it. Forwarded message: I have a question for the people who sew in our group. I just received my new Smoke and Fire catalog and in it I found a set of medieval patterns that I have not run across before. I am just curious if anyone else has seen or used these patterns and could tell me if they are at all accurate historically and how difficult that are to use. The name of the company seems to be La Fleur de Lyse (sp?) and the patterns are called: Women of the Medieval Romanesque Period years 1060 and 1150, Men of Medieval Romanesque Period Years 1060 and 1150, and Medieval Accessories Men and Women 11th to 15th centuries. Thank you for anyone that could help me with this. The patterns are rather expensive and I don't want to buy them if they have major problems. Galiena Thanks -- Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 11 21:47:19 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA26742 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 21:47:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5C1g2C03016; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 19:42:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5C1g0803234; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 19:42:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f5.pav2.hotmail.com [64.4.37.5]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5C1f6802962 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 19:41:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 18:41:00 -0700 Received: from 12.224.202.183 by pv2fd.pav2.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 01:41:00 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.224.202.183] From: "Jennifer Sena" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] Sewing legality question.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Jun 2002 01:41:00.0986 (UTC) FILETIME=[34F111A0:01C211B2] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 18:41:00 -0700 Status: RO > >This is where copyright law, legal tradition, technology and morals > > > collide. Some will argue using the hammer analogy, that what people > > have made is a tool, and therefore you only need to buy one. Others >will > > argue "fair use" and say that you may make copies for yourself but no >one > > else. Another angle is derivative creations from a single source, and >how > > much of your creativity places you in the author's seat. > > > Generally speaking I always, ALWAYS make changes to the original patterns and then reproduce what I end up with. Sometimes it's just a sleeve or neckline change and sometimes I use one piece of the original and work out from there. How does that play into this thread? Not repros of the original design, but the altered one. Jennifer Sena Distant Designs http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 11 21:58:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA26774 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 21:58:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5C1q1C03487; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 19:52:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5C1q0806144; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 19:52:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from b.smtp-out.sonic.net (b.smtp-out.sonic.net [208.201.224.39]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g5C1ph806050 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 19:51:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 26795 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2002 00:45:55 -0000 Received: from ultra.sonic.net (208.201.224.22) by b.smtp-out.sonic.net with SMTP; 12 Jun 2002 00:45:55 -0000 Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-101-174.sonic.net [209.148.101.174]) by ultra.sonic.net (8.11.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id g5C1pg906153 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 18:51:42 -0700 X-envelope-info: Message-ID: <3D06AA1C.6DD0CFB9@lavoltapress.com> From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing legality question.... References: <3D05F8DB.206@comcast.net> <3D0679A3.B444F9D5@lavoltapress.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 18:55:40 -0700 Status: RO Garments are not copyrightable objects, and not covered by copyright law at all. I think they may be patentable but that is a significantly different body of law. Fran sustre@pixelations.com wrote: > Fran said: > > >As I mentioned, the issue of how many garments can be made from the > >same copy of > >a pattern is _not_ a copyright issue. It is a licensing issue, it may be a > >patent issue, but it is not a copyright issue. However illogical it may seem, > >paper patterns are covered by copyright law, which governs copying > >the _pattern_ > >itself--but has nothing to do with _garments_ made from the pattern. > > Is there a specific legal exemption for garments then? Because > otherwise under copyright law a garment made from a pattern would be > covered under copyright as a "derivative work"- a work made from or > by using a copyrighted work. > > None of the copyright info I've read, though, discusses clothing per > se, and I know there are some exceptions built in- like typefaces. No > one can copyright a typeface BUT they can copyright the lead bits or > the computer code that makes it usable for printing; it doesn't stop > someone from starting from scratch and doing one that looks just like > it, though. But type is a specific exception to the norm (as are > recipes, BTW!). > > So I'm curious about whether garments have such an exception written in. > > Licensing also comes into it, of course, as potentially do trademark, > patents, and possibly even design patents. Truly complex... > > -Amanda > curious > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- --------------------------------------------- Visit our web pages! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and vintage dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 11 21:59:19 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA26778 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 21:59:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5C1s1C03591; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 19:54:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5C1s0806658; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 19:54:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from b.smtp-out.sonic.net (b.smtp-out.sonic.net [208.201.224.39]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g5C1rm806601 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 19:53:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 26952 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2002 00:48:00 -0000 Received: from turbo.sonic.net (208.201.224.26) by b.smtp-out.sonic.net with SMTP; 12 Jun 2002 00:48:00 -0000 Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-101-174.sonic.net [209.148.101.174]) by turbo.sonic.net (8.11.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id g5C1rlS23310 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 18:53:47 -0700 X-envelope-info: Message-ID: <3D06AA99.843F3F08@lavoltapress.com> From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing legality question.... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 18:57:45 -0700 Status: RO > Why don't you consult the pattern company and ask them how that fits into their licensing? Fran > > > > Generally speaking I always, ALWAYS make changes to the original patterns > and then reproduce what I end up with. Sometimes it's just a sleeve or > neckline change and sometimes I use one piece of the original and work out > from there. How does that play into this thread? Not repros of the > original design, but the altered one. > -- --------------------------------------------- Visit our web pages! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and vintage dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 12 04:50:15 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA23401 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 04:50:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5C8itC18988; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 02:44:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5C8iq824080; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 02:44:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5C8Z0821807 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 02:35:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KIU7B97EZ4016V6Z@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 09:38:08 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KIU7B7OV8O00H9SI@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 09:38:06 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 12 Jun 2002 09:32:12 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 12 Jun 2002 09:31:32 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.68) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 09:31:31 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: braid for saxon tunic In-reply-to: <200206111802.g5BI21814212@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4BED2777F70@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from Quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g5C8Z0821807 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 09:31:31 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > > I know of two suppliers of tablet braid, (of whom only one will deal > > with anybody they don't know). Tanya, of Tanya's Tablet Weave. > > Last time I bought braid from her she had a waiting list of around 3 > > months and cost Ł50 for a tunic length of 20ft. She's listed in > > Call to Arms. > > Thanks, I'll pass that on. Well, I passed it on and it looks like they're going to go for simple embroidery instead. Thanks for all the info. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 12 07:45:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA24013 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 07:45:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5CBeLC23696; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 05:40:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5CBeC803621; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 05:40:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hookworm.frognet.net (hookworm.frognet.net [204.192.96.22]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g5CBWS801886 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 05:32:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 15125 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2002 11:32:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO khephera.frognet.net) (65.221.79.42) by mail.frognet.net with SMTP; 12 Jun 2002 11:32:20 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020612072510.01b62b30@mail.frognet.net> X-Sender: judi@mail.frognet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Judith Taylor Subject: Re: [h-cost] pattern question In-Reply-To: References: <000001c210f0$c26acd90$d47ba8c0@home1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 07:31:08 -0400 Status: RO Well, in doing a quick online search, I found that Five Rivers Chapmanry also carries this line of patterns. From the website: Medieval & 18th Century New France We're pleased to present La Fleur de Lyse, a limited but excellent array of patterns specifically for those interpreting New France and early Medieval, researched and developed by Canada's own renowned Suzanne Gousse and Evelyne Bouchard. Highly recommended. And for the patterns you mentioned in particular: Women of Medieval Romanesque Period A complete set of women's clothing for early medieval interpretation, including noble and peasant ensembles for 1060 and 1150. Historical notes about fabrics, colours, dwing stitches, hairstyling and trims. Multi-sized small through xlg (bust 36"-42") inclusive. Men of Medieval Romanesque Period A complete ensemble of men's clothing for noble and peasant interpretations, 1060 and 1150. Pattern includes shainse (shirt), cotte (tunic), bliaut (over-tunic), fretes (crossed gatering), mantle (cape), coif (cap) and circlet (crown). Historical notes regarding fabrics, colours, trims, sewing stitches, hair and beard. Multi-sized small through xlg (chest 38"-44") inclusive. Sister Fionnseach du Lochielle mka. Judith Taylor Shire of Dernehealde Athens, OH Barony Middle Marches Middle Kimgdom _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 12 08:54:14 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA24252 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 08:54:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5CCmxC26241; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 06:48:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5CCmt820969; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 06:48:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from apollo.gti.net (postfix@apollo.gti.net [199.171.27.7]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g594QMw26157 for ; Sat, 8 Jun 2002 22:26:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gti.net (morr0631.gti.net [208.216.122.31]) by apollo.gti.net (mail) with ESMTP id 81DE7145AE8; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 00:26:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3D02D8ED.1143348E@gti.net> From: martyr@gti.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: undisclosed-recipients:; Subject: [h-cost] Shoe Making Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 09 Jun 2002 00:26:21 -0400 Status: RO I just found this neat web site called Shoeschool in Port Townsend, Washington. They offer a plethora of shoe-making related items, as well as a distance learning program in shoe construction. Does anyone have any experience with this company? http://www.shoeschool.com/ I think I want to learn shoemaking... Deb R. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 12 09:20:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA24343 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 09:20:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5CDF3C27421; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 07:15:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5CDF1828322; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 07:15:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5CDEU828193 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 07:14:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g5CDETJJ006766 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 09:14:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing legality question.... In-Reply-To: <3D05F8DB.206@comcast.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 09:14:29 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO On Tue, 11 Jun 2002, Linda J. Thompson wrote: > I am on another list and a discussion is going on regarding the use of commercial > patterns, copyright, and whether it is legal to charge someone for creating an item from > the pattern. > > It came up actually when others were discussing Drea's Corset pattern generator. I said I > did not think it was legal for someone to use her pattern generator to create patterns and > then get paid for making the item. And others said it is fine as long as you are selling > the service of a custom made garment as a seamstress. Well, Drea's corset pattern generator isn't a pattern, per se; it's a device you can use to have the measurements turned into a template to make a pattern. She also gives you the directions to take your own measurements and make a corset without the generator. I've been sewing 18th c. women's stays based on these instructions (with my own modifications and a custom fitting, for 18th c. styles), and Drea knows about it; I'm also working on a small instruction booklet for doing this (taking your own measurements and making an 18th c. corset), and asked Drea's permission to include a link to her site and credit for the instructions. She's seen my first draft. So... since I'm working with her permission, I figure I'm ok . On the other hand, I have Janice Ryan's ladies' jacket pattern. Do I make jackets for other people using that pattern? No. She has specific language on the pattern about NOT doing this; if you want to use her pattern to make jackets for customers, you need to contact her regarding licensing. That's fair. If I did start sewing jackets for customers (something I do NOT plan on doing, as I simply don't have the time!), I'd do the legally correct thing and get a license. -- Mara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 12 09:31:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA24391 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 09:31:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5CDQ3C28027; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 07:26:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5CDQ0801580; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 07:26:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5CDPC801387 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 07:25:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 1cust216.tnt1.myrtle-beach.sc.da.uu.net ([67.226.239.216] helo=faucet.net) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17I87a-0003MW-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 06:25:11 -0700 Message-ID: <3D07596E.1E2978B5@faucet.net> From: Melanie Schuessler X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] 14th century Italian chemise documentation References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 09:23:42 -0500 Status: RO Colleen McDonald wrote: > > Hello all, > > I've been digging and digging on this topic and thought I would see if anyone on the list had additional information or suggestions on where to find more documentation on 14th century Italian chemises. I have a source that may or may not be of help to you, being slightly later than the 14th century. It is a fresco circa 1411-16 found in Piedmont, in the Castello di Manta. (Piedmont is at the northern end of modern Italy--I'm not sure how one defines "Italy" in the 14th century.) It depicts the Fountain of Youth, with people on the left getting undressed and jumping in and on the right climbing out and getting dressed (and people in the Fountain itself getting rather frisky). There are two people wearing chemise-like things, both ankle-length and with some fullness around the body, though not much. The garments seem to be cut straight, though it's hard to tell. They definitely do not dip in towards the waist. One has 3/4 length sleeves and the other short sleeves, both with scoop necks. There seems to be rather more fullness just under the scoop than would seem likely with a flat neckline, but there does not appear to be gathering. The way the garments fall is consistent with a rectangular cut at the shoulders and sleeves. There is the tiniest suggestion of an neckline edge binding on one, but I'd want to see the fresco in person to confirm that. I'm assuming these are ladies because of several similarities to other, more definite females in the fresco. The copy I have comes from _Italian Frescos: The Early Renaissance 1400-1470_ by Steffi Roettgen ISBN 0-7892-0139-9, plate 13 on page 52. A wonderful detail of a man pulling off his hose appears on plate 16. This is a beautiful book, by the way, which I would recommend to anyone doing this period and place. Though not to the point of the original question, for those interested in the question of Renaissance women's underwear, I will mention that the chemise of the lady on the left is somewhat translucent, allowing us to see that she's got undies on beneath it. Though it's hard to tell, they look very similar to the hipster model the men wear. Because the left side is the old people (pre-Fountain), it seems unlikely that she's wearing them for menstrual reasons, though they could be for incontinence. Enjoy! Melanie Schuessler _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 12 09:43:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA24428 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 09:43:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5CDc3C28679; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 07:38:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5CDc0805420; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 07:38:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5CDbS805222 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 07:37:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comcast.net (pcp670884pcs.indpnd01.mo.comcast.net [68.34.234.170]) by mtaout04.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.8 (built May 13 2002)) with ESMTP id <0GXL002ANHSYCO@mtaout04.icomcast.net> for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 09:36:34 -0400 (EDT) From: "Linda J. Thompson" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Message-id: <3D074F59.8010508@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Sewing Legality Question Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 08:40:41 -0500 Status: RO What I have always done when someone wants me to sew an item from a pre-made pattern, is I have them purchase the pattern or I do, and when I am done they get the pattern. That way I figure I can not possibly be infringing on any rights. I have read on the backs of numerous patterns the "for your own personal use" things and stuff so just assumed that carried through in all matters for patterns. Never thought that it might not be a copyright issue. Thanks Fran for pointing that out. As for software/program restrictions... I have found in developing my online store, that each company comes up with its own restrictions. So I always read the fine print, since I help others do some online stuff. Some companies sell "developer" packages, that give you the ability to use or distribute a program a set number of times, and thats it, then you have to purchase another package. All the information has been very helpful. Thanks -- Linda Thompson Visit www.seams-to-be.com where Attitude is Everything _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 12 09:49:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA24529 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 09:49:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5CDi3C29066; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 07:44:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5CDi0807605; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 07:44:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5CDhT807429 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 07:43:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comcast.net (pcp670884pcs.indpnd01.mo.comcast.net [68.34.234.170]) by mtaout02.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.8 (built May 13 2002)) with ESMTP id <0GXL00FRAI4AX6@mtaout02.icomcast.net> for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 09:43:22 -0400 (EDT) From: "Linda J. Thompson" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Message-id: <3D0750F2.6060805@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 Subject: [h-cost] Re: 14th century italian chemise documentation Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 08:47:30 -0500 Status: RO Colleen, One of my employees spent a semester abroad in Italy this past year. She bought me a book that is in Italian. It was a book that had pictures of Fresco's in it, and the author would pick a particular character and then do a pattern layout of the items of clothing the character wears. I do not have it at my side, but will look for it later and see if they have anything with a chemise layout in it. It is completely in Italian, so I have absolutely no idea if it is a theatrical leaning book or historical, but the layouts look suspiciously like "historical studies". I will type in the name of the book, and the publishing information later today, if you want to see if it is a viable source? -- Linda Thompson Visit www.seams-to-be.com where Attitude is Everything _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 12 10:21:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24624 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 10:21:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5CEG3C01310; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 08:16:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5CEG0819672; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 08:16:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5CEFr819617 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 08:15:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA01305 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 09:39:02 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] 14th century Italian chemise documentation In-Reply-To: <3D07596E.1E2978B5@faucet.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 09:39:02 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Wed, 12 Jun 2002, Melanie Schuessler wrote: > I have a source that may or may not be of help to you, being slightly > later than the 14th century. It is a fresco circa 1411-16 found in > Piedmont, in the Castello di Manta. (Piedmont is at the northern end > of modern Italy--I'm not sure how one defines "Italy" in the 14th > century.) > It depicts the Fountain of Youth, with people on the left getting > undressed and jumping in and on the right climbing out and getting > dressed (and people in the Fountain itself getting rather frisky). There's a detail from this at the bottom of the April page of the 2000 Medieval Woman calendar. I remember spending a long time looking at that detail! It's frustrating because you can't see all the figures outside the fountain -- just parts of some of them. But what I do see doesn't seem to have a clear left-right progression -- there's a young man dressing and an old person climing in visible on the left, for instance, and what looks like an old man being pulled in frm the right, an old woman getting in from the right, and a young man exiting at the right. Of the two chemised figures, one is on the left, and one is on the right. Both appear old. > There are two people wearing chemise-like things, both ankle-length and > with some fullness around the body, though not much. The garments seem > to be cut straight, though it's hard to tell. They definitely do not > dip in towards the waist. One has 3/4 length sleeves and the other > short sleeves, both with scoop necks. There seems to be rather more > fullness just under the scoop than would seem likely with a flat > neckline, but there does not appear to be gathering. The way the > garments fall is consistent with a rectangular cut at the shoulders and > sleeves. There is the tiniest suggestion of an neckline edge binding on > one, but I'd want to see the fresco in person to confirm that. I'm > assuming these are ladies because of several similarities to other, more > definite females in the fresco. I see the problem there -- I can't tell from my copy whether they're women or men, and I don't have the other frescos to compare. I also see that hint of neckline binding even on this reproduction -- at the right shoulder of the right chemised figure. > Though not to the point of the original question, for those interested > in the question of Renaissance women's underwear, I will mention that > the chemise of the lady on the left is somewhat translucent, allowing > us to see that she's got undies on beneath it. Though it's hard to > tell, they look very similar to the hipster model the men wear. > Because the left side is the old people (pre-Fountain), it seems > unlikely that she's wearing them for menstrual reasons, though they > could be for incontinence. Your version is clearer than mine, as all I can see on the chemised figure to the left (whom we view from the back) is the chemise, with what appears to be a small crack in the painting that might indicate the lower edge of the right leg opening if there were briefs underneath. The sex of the person is definitely in doubt, though -- we see only a bit of the back of the head, which is wrapped or capped. Worth noting is that the only other underwear I see in the image is on the men, both young and old, who seem universally briefed. The undressed women I can see are all naked at the hips, or hidden under water (perhaps because they are naked). Also, the figures that are clearly women all wear fancy headdresses, including an evil-looking crone climbing in from the right, save for one maiden with long loose hair. Based on these trends of headdress and underwear alone, that would suggest that the chemised figures are men, but I wouldn't want to exclude the possibility of women, particularly for the right-hand chemised figure, who is wearing a turbanlike wrap I do not see elsewhere in my portion of the image. I also can't see the upper halves of the standing figures, bleah. I'm personlly wishing I had more of the figure to the left, who is wearing a lace-up gown that has a waistline seam and is brown on the top and green below the waist. Melanie, is it male or female, young or old, and what does the top look like? --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 12 10:48:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24727 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 10:48:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5CEh5C03487; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 08:43:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5CEh2802808; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 08:43:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from WDNE2K.mackie.com ([12.144.236.152]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5CEgV802551 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 08:42:32 -0600 (MDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.5762.3 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: 14th century italian chemise documentation Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Re: 14th century italian chemise documentation Thread-Index: AcISFzc8jxYKSXTlTzqhh7/WjGnZzAAB/5TA From: "Colleen McDonald" To: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g5CEgV802551 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 07:41:58 -0700 Status: RO Linda Thompson wrote: <> Yes, please! Thank you! Colleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 12 10:52:16 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24743 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 10:52:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5CEl2C03884; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 08:47:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5CEl1804935; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 08:47:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13301.mail.yahoo.com (web13301.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.37]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g5CEkp804854 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 08:46:52 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020612144647.61727.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13301.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 15:46:47 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] An Explanation about Image and some tips (long) To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <3D06320C.7707EEA0@misc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 15:46:47 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Theresa Eacker wrote: > Though I know this is way off topic, just quickly: > When one of the URLS to your images gets posted to the list with a > historical/period attire question attached, does that mean we've (the > liste) infringed on your copyright and that we should ask you first > before we do this? Oh no, no, don't worry. I can see when this happens because the image is being pulled uip from a certain URL (mailing list) but this s not a problem at all, after all, how else would one show a particular image/photo? What I meant is when someone lnks directly so they steal bandwidth, because an image hosted on my server appears on theirs. I don't like it either when people link to just an image with a text link (while not actually stealing bandwidth in the usual sense) to my site, as agreed by many this is vey discourteous and I do write to thse people asking them to menton my actual site. I am happy if someone says 'insert name of piccie or url here, which islinked to piccie' from L'Age d'or (which is linked to the main site). Hope that clarifies it. All the best Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 12 11:22:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA25087 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 11:22:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5CFH4C06678; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 09:17:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5CFH1820134; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 09:17:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net (goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5CFGS819809 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 09:16:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 1cust109.tnt1.myrtle-beach.sc.da.uu.net ([67.226.239.109] helo=faucet.net) by goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17I9rG-0003XD-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 08:16:26 -0700 Message-ID: <3D077381.A1E4CA42@faucet.net> From: Melanie Schuessler X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] 14th century Italian chemise documentation References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 11:14:57 -0500 Status: RO Robin Netherton wrote: > > There's a detail from this at the bottom of the April page of the 2000 > Medieval Woman calendar. So there is! I hadn't remembered that. What's interesting is that the calendar has the picture reversed--that is, mirror-image--compared to the one in my fresco book. > But what I do see doesn't seem to > have a clear left-right progression -- there's a young man dressing and an > old person climing in visible on the left, for instance, and what looks > like an old man being pulled in frm the right, an old woman getting in > from the right, and a young man exiting at the right. When you can see the whole thing, and it's reversed from what the calendar shows, there's a general taking-off of clothes by old people on the left and a general putting-on of clothes by young people on the right. The only exception I see might be the chemised person next to the red-and-green gown, who seems to be climbing in (from the right in the book) with the help of the guy standing on the rim. > Of the two chemised figures, one is on the left, and one is on the right. > Both appear old. The chemised person with the yellow thing over their shoulder is on the old side, and has definite lines on their face. The other one might be old--the only evidence for this would be the visibility of vertebra at the back of their neck. > I see the problem there -- I can't tell from my copy whether they're women > or men, and I don't have the other frescos to compare. The reasons I think they're women: 1. The two chemised figures have very pale skin. In this fresco, most of the men, young or old, have a ruddier skin tone, whereas those figures which are definitely female have very pale, almost white, skin. The only definite exception to this is the pale-skinned guy in shirt and briefs being helped on with his 'doublet' (not sure what the proper word is in this context) by a person in red with black and grey dags. 2. They have headwraps similar to other women in the fresco. A. I think the person in the red-and-green is a woman because the red-and-green looks like a woman's gown to me. I can't think of any male garment that looks like that (see description below). This person is wearing a headwrap identical to the two chemised figures, including the strip of decor evident on the one being helped into the fountain. B. Not shown in the calendar is a very old lady with pendulous breasts, on hands and knees acting as a step-stool for the old guy getting in with the help of the curly redhead. She's naked but for her headwrap, which is similar to though definitely not identical to that of the two chemised figures and the red-and-green person. This headwrap has a band going under the chin, some kind of knot at the side, and a tail of some kind, all in white. 3. One has breasts. In my reproduction, it looks like the chemised person with the yellow drape has breasts, though again it's hard to tell because the chemise is only barely translucent. 4. The men wear shirts instead of chemises. All of the people who are definitely male and partly or fully undressed are wearing either briefs or briefs and a short shirt. > I also see that hint of neckline binding even on this reproduction -- at > the right shoulder of the right chemised figure. On the left shoulder of the left chemised figure in my book. This is the person with the possible briefs on, but the calendar cuts off at the ribcage. > I'm personlly wishing I had more of the figure to the left, who is wearing > a lace-up gown that has a waistline seam and is brown on the top and green > below the waist. Melanie, is it male or female, young or old, and what > does the top look like? Young, I think female. Has a headwrap just like the two chemised figures. The sleeves are fullish then gather? pleat? to wide cuffs that fasten with five or six buttons and buttonholes. It looks pretty narrow through the body, though the skirt is fuller. It has a scoop neck, and the lacing continues up to the neckline. Because the person doesn't have it all the way down to their shoulders yet, it's hard to tell how low the neckline is. The thing that confuses me (besides the contrasting halves) is that when the dress is all the way on, the "waistline" looks like it will end up at the low hip, but this may just be Painter's License in action. Melanie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 12 11:31:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA25121 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 11:31:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5CFQ3C07650; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 09:26:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5CFQ2825366; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 09:26:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5CFPG824976 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 09:25:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01985 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 10:48:26 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] 14th century Italian chemise documentation In-Reply-To: <3D077381.A1E4CA42@faucet.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 10:48:26 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO Thank you for the detail! I don't do Italian, but now I want that book. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 12 12:10:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA25296 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 12:10:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5CG55C11807; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 10:05:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5CG51818918; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 10:05:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5CG4d818717 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 10:04:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [136.152.193.17] (as-5-31.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.193.17]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.10.2) with ESMTP id g5CG4bU23147 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 09:04:37 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: RE: [h-cost] 14th century Italian chemise documentation Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 16:56:57 -0700 Status: RO At 1:40 PM -0700 6/11/02, Colleen McDonald wrote: >Thanks for the great ideas, Robin. I've already put holds on just >about every book on illumination in our local library system and >they had the Decameron that you recommended as well. > > ><if that's something specific to bathhouse attendents, Bohemia, or the >Wenceslaus Bible artist.>> > >There is also the extant 14th century sleeveless chemise shown in >Kohler's book. It actually comes from a book by Moriz Heyne, >published in 1903, and was found at Castle Rahnis in what was East >Germany in 1867. I've written to the museum at the Castle and it >vanished after the Russians came through at the end of the war. I >have some contacts in Russia checking to see if it has shown up >anywhere in the Moscow museums. Ah, that's useful information, since the item is on my (very long) list of garments to try to track down at some point. You wouldn't happen to have any further information on the Heyne book, would you? Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 12 12:43:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA25590 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 12:43:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5CGc6C15420; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 10:38:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5CGc4810017; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 10:38:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from WDNE2K.mackie.com ([12.144.236.152]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5CGbX809714 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 10:37:33 -0600 (MDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.5762.3 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: RE: [h-cost] 14th century Italian chemise documentation Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [h-cost] 14th century Italian chemise documentation Thread-Index: AcISKvVIVhG948BqRbSfkEUEuChUugAAOQVA From: "Colleen McDonald" To: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g5CGbX809714 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 09:36:59 -0700 Status: RO Heather Rose Jones wrote: <> Here's the citation for the book: Heyne, Moriz. Fünf Bücher Deutscher Hausaltertümer von den Ältesten Geschichtlichen Zeiten Bis Zum 16. Jahrhundert. Leipzig: Verlag von S. Hirzel, 1903. It's in German and I've had the relevant passages translated by two different people. There is a photo of the chemise (which is the one that Kohler used for his book). It's in the last third of the book. The details in the text of the Heyne book don't say much at all - that it was found with other items from the early 14th century, it is 70 cm long and that it is a woman's garment. (Doesn't say how they determined that.) I have a letter from the museum in response to my query and two small articles that they sent me (in German) and I'm waiting for my translator to return from vacation. The general gist of it is that the castle was privately owned prior to WWII, which could be the "private collection" that Kohler refers to. At the end of the war, the Russian came through and cleaned the museum out, according to the letter, and the current curator doesn't have any more information about the chemise after that point. I had actually figured that it was probably bombed into oblivion during the war, but apparently the region surrounding the castle was not badly damaged during the war, so that was news. I have a contact in Moscow who is doing some checking there to see if by some miracle that it still exists and is in one of the collections in the museums there. (One good thing about a highly centralized system, I suppose, is that artifacts and war booty pretty much stayed in Moscow.) I'm afraid that the soldiers would have had no idea what this little scrap of fabric was and it ended up as a bandage or in the garbage or was destroyed. If anyone else has more details to add to the story of this chemise, I would love to hear them! Regards, Colleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 12 12:58:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA25690 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 12:58:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5CGr2C17078; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 10:53:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5CGr1819415; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 10:53:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m10.mx.aol.com (imo-m10.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.165]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5CGqC818898 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 10:52:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from MaddNancy@aol.com by imo-m10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.140.fd8e889 (4406) for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 12:52:00 -0400 (EDT) From: MaddNancy@aol.com Message-ID: <140.fd8e889.2a38d630@aol.com> To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_140.fd8e889.2a38d630_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10516 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Italian 14th century chemises Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 12:52:00 EDT Status: RO --part1_140.fd8e889.2a38d630_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 6/11/02 8:23:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Colleen McDonal= d=20 writes: > I've been digging and digging on this topic and thought I would see if=20 > anyone on the list had additional information or suggestions on where to=20 > find more documentation on 14th century Italian chemises. >=20 Colleen, I've been researching Italian costume for a while now. Chemises are a=20 difficult garment to track until around about the early 16th century when it= =20 became the fashion to show off your chemise. Robin's suggestions for source= s=20 are good ones (some of the examples I have). One of the things to keep in=20 mind is "when" in the 14th century are you looking for documentation for=20 chemises. Fashions changed fairly dramatically during this period, going=20 from loose tunic-like garments to an Italian version of International Gothic= .=20 The examples I have been able to find are primarily late 14th century. Since you seemed from some of your postings to also be interested in 15th=20 century documentation, I do have some references that you may want to look=20 at. Unfortunately I do not know if they're on the web, but I have tried to=20 list the reference in a manner that would help you find it (my scanner is=20 down at the moment). =20 The first book I think you should look at is the Tacuinam Sanitatis or=20 Medieval Health Handbook (ISBN 0-8076-1277-4, paperback) which is a=20 compendium of five manuscripts from around the end of the 14th century, goin= g=20 into the 15th. Almost all the depictions of women in their chemises are ver= y=20 similar to those Robin described from other areas in Europe, although the=20 chemises are not always long-sleeved. However, in the Tacuinam of Li=E8ge,=20 there is a drawing of two women wearing shifts similar to the Bathhouse Babe= s=20 (#81 The Northerly Wind). These shifts are tabardlike with fastenings along= =20 the side at two points. Interestingly, this manuscript has been attributed=20 mainly to Giovannino dei Grassi after his return from Bohemia! =20 The next images I've noted are from a two-part series on Italian frescoes by= =20 Stefan Roettgen.=20 >From Italian Frescoes: The Early Renaissance, ISBN 0-7892-0139-9: =20 Castello del Buon Consiglio in Trent, dated before 1407, fresco for=20 July showing women working in the field=20 Castello di Manta, dated 1411-16, fresco of The Fountain of Youth. =20 One of my favorites! Not only are there women in chemises (3/4 sleeves and=20 short sleeves), but you can also see that the woman in the short sleeved=20 chemise has underwear on! It appears to be the same style as the man in the= =20 fountain. Cathedral of Santo Stefano (Prato) dated 1452-65, fresco of the Birth= =20 of St. Stephen. Woman in bed (Stephen's mother?) has chemise with long=20 sleeves and a higher neckline that appears to be draping somewhat cowl-like=20 in the front. Most of the chemises in this period (mid 15th to later 15th)=20 appear to be loosely pleated along the front neckline, but the pleats are no= t=20 sewn down, more like they put the gown over top of the chemise and=20 artistically arranged the chemise. Note: if any one finds pictures of=20 chemises without the gown over top, please let me know! I've been trying to= =20 resolve this chemise structure for years! >From Italian Frescoes: The Flowering of the Renaissance, ISBN 0-7892-0221-2)= : San Giacomo Maggiore - Oratory of St. Cecilia, Bologna, dated 1514-16= .=20 I include this (rather late period) reference because the burial of St.=20 Cecilia shows her wearing a shift very similar to the Bathhouse Babes. Note= =20 that in the earlier pictures of this cycle she is wearing more voluminous=20 garments than those of her ladies, who appear to be dressed in contemporary=20 styles (which by this time are more constrictive and a case can be argued fo= r=20 some type of restrictive garment; a shift might possibly have been worn unde= r=20 this type of garment to reduce the amount of exposure to perspiration and to= =20 prevent any chafing). Getting back to the 15th century, in the background of Carpaccio's Healing o= f=20 the Possessed Man (1490's, Venice, Academia) there is a garment hanging from= =20 a line which appears to be a sleeveless shift. There are also long sleeved=20 chemises hanging from the line. I hope those help. If anyone has references to other pictures from the book= =20 that has the Bathhouse Babes that shows them dressed in "outerwear", I would= =20 really like to see them. I want to try to put their bath attire in context=20 with what was worn on the streets since a lot of the discussion surrounding=20 those images is about the possibility that those clothes were worn under all= =20 their other garments. Thanks for asking the question - it did a great job in distracting me from=20 painting the back door! Nancy Stengel Ulmer (mka Maddalena Salutati) --part1_140.fd8e889.2a38d630_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 6/11/02 8:23:46 PM Eastern Daylight= Time, Colleen McDonald writes:

I've been digging and digging o= n this topic and thought I would see if anyone on the list had additional in= formation or suggestions on where to find more documentation on 14th century= Italian chemises.


Colleen,

I've been researching Italian costume for a while now.  Chemises are a=20= difficult garment to track until around about the early 16th century when it= became the fashion to show off your chemise.  Robin's suggestions for=20= sources are good ones (some of the examples I have). One of the things to ke= ep in mind is "when" in the 14th century are you looking for documentation f= or chemises.  Fashions changed fairly dramatically during this period,=20= going from loose tunic-like garments to an Italian version of International=20= Gothic.  The examples I have been able to find are primarily late 14th=20= century.

Since you seemed from some of your postings to also be interested in 15th ce= ntury documentation, I do have some references that you may want to look at.=   Unfortunately I do not know if they're on the web, but I have tried t= o list the reference in a manner that would help you find it (my scanner is=20= down at the moment). 

The first book I think you should look at is the Tacuinam Sanitatis or Medie= val Health Handbook (ISBN 0-8076-1277-4, paperback) which is a compendium of= five manuscripts from around the end of the 14th century, going into the 15= th.  Almost all the depictions of women in their chemises are very simi= lar to those Robin described from other areas in Europe, although the chemis= es are not always long-sleeved.  However, in the Tacuinam of Li=E8ge, t= here is a drawing of two women wearing shifts similar to the Bathhouse Babes= (#81 The Northerly Wind).  These shifts are tabardlike with fastenings= along the side at two points.  Interestingly, this manuscript has been= attributed mainly to Giovannino dei Grassi after his return from Boh= emia! 

The next images I've noted are from a two-part series on Italian frescoes by= Stefan Roettgen.

>From Italian Frescoes: The Early Renaissance, ISBN 0-7892-0139-9: 
       Castello del Buon Consiglio in Trent, d= ated before 1407, fresco for July showing women working in the field

       Castello di Manta, dated 1411-16, fresc= o of The Fountain of Youth.  One of my favorites!  Not only are th= ere women in chemises (3/4 sleeves and short sleeves), but you can also see=20= that the woman in the short sleeved chemise has underwear on!  It appea= rs to be the same style as the man in the fountain.

       Cathedral of Santo Stefano (Prato) date= d 1452-65, fresco of the Birth of St. Stephen.  Woman in bed (Stephen's= mother?) has chemise with long sleeves and a higher neckline that appears t= o be draping somewhat cowl-like in the front.  Most of the chemises in=20= this period (mid 15th to later 15th) appear to be loosely pleated along the=20= front neckline, but the pleats are not sewn down, more like they put the gow= n over top of the chemise and artistically arranged the chemise.  Note:= if any one finds pictures of chemises without the gown over top, please let= me know!  I've been trying to resolve this chemise structure for years= !

>From Italian Frescoes: The Flowering of the Renaissance, ISBN 0-7892-0221-2)= :
       San Giacomo Maggiore - Oratory of St. C= ecilia, Bologna, dated 1514-16.  I include this (rather late period) re= ference because the burial of St. Cecilia shows her wearing a shift very sim= ilar to the Bathhouse Babes.  Note that in the earlier pictures of this= cycle she is wearing more voluminous garments than those of her ladies, who= appear to be dressed in contemporary styles (which by this time are more co= nstrictive and a case can be argued for some type of restrictive garment; a=20= shift might possibly have been worn under this type of garment to reduce the= amount of exposure to perspiration and to prevent any chafing).

Getting back to the 15th century, in the background of Carpaccio's Healing o= f the Possessed Man (1490's, Venice, Academia) there is a garment hanging fr= om a line which appears to be a sleeveless shift.  There are also long=20= sleeved chemises hanging from the line.

I hope those help.  If anyone has references to other pictures from the= book that has the Bathhouse Babes that shows them dressed in "outerwear", I= would really like to see them.  I want to try to put their bath attire= in context with what was worn on the streets since a lot of the discussion=20= surrounding those images is about the possibility that those clothes were wo= rn under all their other garments.

Thanks for asking the question - it did a great job in distracting me from p= ainting the back door!

Nancy Stengel Ulmer
(mka Maddalena Salutati)

 --part1_140.fd8e889.2a38d630_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 12 13:49:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA25971 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 13:49:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5CHiEC22886; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 11:44:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5CHiD821491; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 11:44:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtprelay9.dc2.adelphia.net (smtprelay9.dc2.adelphia.net [64.8.50.53]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5CHhe821136 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 11:43:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [24.52.227.157] ([24.52.227.157]) by smtprelay9.dc2.adelphia.net (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id GXLT6F01.U8I for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 13:42:15 -0400 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: [h-cost] 14th century Italian chemise documentation From: randl To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3D077381.A1E4CA42@faucet.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 13:42:14 -0400 Status: RO on 6/12/02 12:14 PM, Melanie Schuessler at melanie@faucet.net wrote: Hi all, found this image online: http://www.lycos.it/webguides/arte/fai/manta.html# the thumbnail is down towards the bottom. laurie > Robin Netherton wrote: >> >> There's a detail from this at the bottom of the April page of the 2000 >> Medieval Woman calendar. > > So there is! I hadn't remembered that. What's interesting is that the > calendar has the picture reversed--that is, mirror-image--compared to > the one in my fresco book. > >> But what I do see doesn't seem to >> have a clear left-right progression -- there's a young man dressing and an >> old person climing in visible on the left, for instance, and what looks >> like an old man being pulled in frm the right, an old woman getting in >> from the right, and a young man exiting at the right. > > When you can see the whole thing, and it's reversed from what the > calendar shows, there's a general taking-off of clothes by old people on > the left and a general putting-on of clothes by young people on the > right. The only exception I see might be the chemised person next to > the red-and-green gown, who seems to be climbing in (from the right in > the book) with the help of the guy standing on the rim. > >> Of the two chemised figures, one is on the left, and one is on the right. >> Both appear old. > > The chemised person with the yellow thing over their shoulder is on the > old side, and has definite lines on their face. The other one might be > old--the only evidence for this would be the visibility of vertebra at > the back of their neck. > >> I see the problem there -- I can't tell from my copy whether they're women >> or men, and I don't have the other frescos to compare. > > The reasons I think they're women: > 1. The two chemised figures have very pale skin. > In this fresco, most of the men, young or old, have a ruddier skin tone, > whereas those figures which are definitely female have very pale, almost > white, skin. The only definite exception to this is the pale-skinned > guy in shirt and briefs being helped on with his 'doublet' (not sure > what the proper word is in this context) by a person in red with black > and grey dags. > > 2. They have headwraps similar to other women in the fresco. > A. I think the person in the red-and-green is a woman because the > red-and-green looks like a woman's gown to me. I can't think of any > male garment that looks like that (see description below). This person > is wearing a headwrap identical to the two chemised figures, including > the strip of decor evident on the one being helped into the fountain. > B. Not shown in the calendar is a very old lady with pendulous breasts, > on hands and knees acting as a step-stool for the old guy getting in > with the help of the curly redhead. She's naked but for her headwrap, > which is similar to though definitely not identical to that of the two > chemised figures and the red-and-green person. This headwrap has a band > going under the chin, some kind of knot at the side, and a tail of some > kind, all in white. > > 3. One has breasts. > In my reproduction, it looks like the chemised person with the yellow > drape has breasts, though again it's hard to tell because the chemise is > only barely translucent. > > 4. The men wear shirts instead of chemises. > All of the people who are definitely male and partly or fully undressed > are wearing either briefs or briefs and a short shirt. > >> I also see that hint of neckline binding even on this reproduction -- at >> the right shoulder of the right chemised figure. > > On the left shoulder of the left chemised figure in my book. This is > the person with the possible briefs on, but the calendar cuts off at the > ribcage. > >> I'm personlly wishing I had more of the figure to the left, who is wearing >> a lace-up gown that has a waistline seam and is brown on the top and green >> below the waist. Melanie, is it male or female, young or old, and what >> does the top look like? > > Young, I think female. Has a headwrap just like the two chemised > figures. The sleeves are fullish then gather? pleat? to wide cuffs that > fasten with five or six buttons and buttonholes. It looks pretty narrow > through the body, though the skirt is fuller. It has a scoop neck, and > the lacing continues up to the neckline. Because the person doesn't > have it all the way down to their shoulders yet, it's hard to tell how > low the neckline is. The thing that confuses me (besides the > contrasting halves) is that when the dress is all the way on, the > "waistline" looks like it will end up at the low hip, but this may just > be Painter's License in action. > > Melanie > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume http://www.lycos.it/webguides/arte/fai/manta.html# _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 12 14:19:15 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA30297 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 14:19:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5CIE2C25677; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 12:14:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5CIE1809299; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 12:14:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5CIDK808870 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 12:13:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA03305 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 13:36:30 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Italian 14th century chemises In-Reply-To: <140.fd8e889.2a38d630@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 13:36:30 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Wed, 12 Jun 2002 MaddNancy@aol.com wrote: > The first book I think you should look at is the Tacuinam Sanitatis or > Medieval Health Handbook (ISBN 0-8076-1277-4, paperback) which is a > compendium of five manuscripts from around the end of the 14th > century, going into the 15th. I should have thought of that one too. Some added notes: The five manuscripts are related but in different museums/collections -- the "compendium" is the modern book, which has samples from most of the five, many in color, plus more in b/w. You can see more images from one of those manuscripts in "The Four Seasons of the House of Cerruti." And sometimes images from these manuscripts appear in the Medieval Woman books (e.g. in the addressbook or the book of days), so sometimes you can find a color version of something that b/w in the Helath Handbook. It's useful to compare images on the same topic from several of the manuscripts. Another thing to remember is that some if not all of these manuscripts were made in the Po Valley, which is very much Northern Italy and very unlike much of what we consider "Italian." In some of the manuscripts, the fashions look a lot more French than Italian Renaissance. Others are more recognizably Italian. This may reflect the personal experience of the specific illuminators. I'd have to go back to the books to remember which of the five were most Italianate, which were done where, etc. but most of the distinctions are summarized well in the Medieval Health Handbook volume. > I hope those help. If anyone has references to other pictures from > the book that has the Bathhouse Babes that shows them dressed in > "outerwear", I would really like to see them. I want to try to put > their bath attire in context with what was worn on the streets since a > lot of the discussion surrounding those images is about the > possibility that those clothes were worn under all their other > garments. There are quite a few images of fully dressed women in the same manuscript, and many are reproduced in Olga Sronkova's "Gothic Women's Fashion." I don't think any of the fully dressed women are specifically identified as bathwomen, although Sronkova refers to one fully-dressed female as a "bath attendant in holiday dress" or something like that. I have no idea why Sronkova calls her that. She could be any random female as far as I can tell. It's important to note that the bathhouse babes are all marginals, and occupy the same role on the manuscript as grotesques and other humorous caricatures. Their depiction also has some elements that seem to evoke iconographical display of saints, probably meant in a satiric way. I have elaborated on some of the issues involved in using these ladies as sources in earlier postings -- search in the archives under the subject line "Cotehardie Conundrum/Bohemian Bath Attendants" in July 1999. The whole thread is worth reading, but my posting of July 9 covers this specifically. My personal thought is that the shifts are probably similar to what was worn by the bath attendants (favored by the King for whom the ms was made) but that their depiction is romanticized/sexualized rather than realistic, particularly in silhouette. Thus I wouldn't use these images to document, say, chemises with boning or other infrastructure to elevate the bosom. The women were just drawn to be attractive, with the same silhouette as was used for the clothed women in the book. I think I'd better do a paper on bathhouse ladies. It keeps coming up, and I keep collecting more bits and pieces! --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 12 15:03:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA30558 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 15:03:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5CIw2C00938; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 12:58:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5CIw1806007; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 12:58:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from WDNE2K.mackie.com ([12.144.236.152]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5CIv1805381 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 12:57:01 -0600 (MDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.5762.3 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Italian 14th century chemises Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Re: Italian 14th century chemises Thread-Index: AcISMceF5cAgHPUoR6OEGj3FHfvAvgAEFySQ From: "Colleen McDonald" To: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g5CIv1805381 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 11:56:27 -0700 Status: RO Nancy Stengel Ulmer wrote: <> Good point - I'm focusing on the period from 1340 to 1380 and within that, around 1365 in Florence. (I'm still keeping all of the info on later periods for other projects!) I have the Tacuinam Sanitatis - thanks for reminding me to look there also. The other thing that I've been trying to do is locate written sources (in addition to the visual ones in paintings and manuscripts). Does anyone have any good suggestions for a literary source? Thanks for the all of the help - I'm learning a lot! Colleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 12 16:16:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA30897 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 16:16:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5CKB5C07683; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 14:11:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5CKB1817343; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 14:11:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53.attbi.com [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5CKAK816993 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 14:10:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from C59303A ([12.238.186.197]) by rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020612201015.BXQX11659.rwcrmhc53.attbi.com@C59303A> for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 20:10:15 +0000 Message-ID: <04b001c2124d$1ebdc450$c5baee0c@mckiny1.tx.home.com> From: "Chiara" To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Subject: [h-cost] Houston shops Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 15:09:38 -0500 Status: RO Where can someone go in Houston for really great buttons and in bulk? Sincerely, Franchesca Vecchio Havas McKinney, Texas `°ş¤ř,¸¸,ř¤ş°` _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 12 17:27:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA31191 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 17:27:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5CLM2C13899; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 15:22:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5CLM1827923; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 15:22:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web14007.mail.yahoo.com (web14007.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.123]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g5CLLQ827555 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 15:21:26 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020612212125.90392.qmail@web14007.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.175.94.59] by web14007.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 14:21:25 PDT From: Cin Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: 14th century italian chemise documentation To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <3D0750F2.6060805@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 14:21:25 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO --- "Linda J. Thompson" wrote: > One of my employees spent a semester abroad in Italy this past year. She > bought me a book > that is in Italian. It was a book that had pictures of Fresco's in it, and > the author > would pick a particular character and then do a pattern layout of the items > of clothing the character wears. Sounds like the Issogne Castle book. 6 frescos from a castle (14th c) near the Piedmont/Aosta border. Off the top of my head (the book is still in storage): Some university, I think Milan, did an exhibit on poupees ~0.5m tall. Everything was in solid fabrics pieced into stripes or checks shown in the original frescos. While the result is fun to look at, take the "historical" patterns with a grain of salt. IIRC, the "original" hose shown in the book are from the 19th c for a festival rather like the Palia of Siena or the orange throwing festival of Ivrea. It's still a fun book. Enjoy it! ===== --cin Cynthia hysteria95126@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 12 17:50:16 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA31287 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 17:50:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5CLjAC16013; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 15:45:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5CLj6811735; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 15:45:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web14004.mail.yahoo.com (web14004.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.120]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g5CLi1811031 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 15:44:01 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020612214400.91489.qmail@web14004.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.175.94.59] by web14004.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 14:44:00 PDT From: Cin To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] News: Archeologists find Silk Road equal in Egypt Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 14:44:00 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/06/12/ancient.trade.ap/index.html With a nifty piece of figured Indian cotton circa from a Roman era deposit. ===== --cin Cynthia hysteria95126@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 12 18:51:16 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA31433 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 18:51:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5CMk8C21312; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 16:46:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5CMk0818172; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 16:46:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ns.misc.com (h-66-134-203-2.SNVACAID.covad.net [66.134.203.2]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5CMjK817838 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 16:45:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from misc.com (mac.misc.com [192.168.254.109]) by ns.misc.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA23048 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 15:46:17 -0700 Message-ID: <3D07D00A.B65CD272@misc.com> From: Theresa Eacker X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] An Explanation about Image and some tips (long) References: <20020612144647.61727.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 15:49:47 -0700 Status: RO To N Kipar- Thank you so much, that is great clarification on this matter!! Theresa Eacker N Kipar wrote: (Major pruning ensues) > > When one of the URLS to your images gets posted to the list with a > > historical/period attire question attached, does that mean we've (the > > liste) infringed on your copyright and that we should ask you first > > before we do this? > > Oh no, no, don't worry. I can see when this happens because the image is being > pulled uip from a certain URL (mailing list) but this s not a problem at all, > after all, how else would one show a particular image/photo? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 12 19:24:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA31536 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 19:24:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5CNJ4C23642; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 17:19:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5CNJ0804097; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 17:19:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5CNIF803716 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 17:18:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [136.152.196.12] (as3-4-26.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.12]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.10.2) with ESMTP id g5CNIDv15803 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 16:18:13 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: RE: [h-cost] 14th century Italian chemise documentation Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g5CNIF803716 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 15:56:26 -0700 Status: RO At 9:36 AM -0700 6/12/02, Colleen McDonald wrote: >Heather Rose Jones wrote: > ><long)list of garments to try to track down at some point. You >wouldn't >happen to have any further information on the Heyne book, would you?>> > >Here's the citation for the book: > >Heyne, Moriz. Fünf Bücher Deutscher Hausaltertümer von den Ältesten >Geschichtlichen Zeiten Bis Zum 16. Jahrhundert. Leipzig: Verlag von >S. Hirzel, 1903. Thanks! That saves me quite a bit of tracking down. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jun 13 16:06:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA05731 for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 16:06:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5DK1DC00993; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 14:01:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5DK11I17274; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 14:01:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r07.mx.aol.com (imo-r07.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.103]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5DK0QI16952 for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 14:00:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from MaddNancy@aol.com by imo-r07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.151.f3d0b7e (4013) for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 16:00:10 -0400 (EDT) From: MaddNancy@aol.com Message-ID: <151.f3d0b7e.2a3a53ca@aol.com> To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_151.f3d0b7e.2a3a53ca_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10516 Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume digest, Vol 1 #991 - 7 msgs Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 16:00:10 EDT Status: RO --part1_151.f3d0b7e.2a3a53ca_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/13/02 2:04:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Robin Netherton writes: > There are quite a few images of fully dressed women in the same > manuscript, and many are reproduced in Olga Sronkova's "Gothic Women's > Fashion." I don't think any of the fully dressed women are specifically > identified as bathwomen, although Sronkova refers to one fully-dressed > female as a "bath attendant in holiday dress" or something like that. I > have no idea why Sronkova calls her that. She could be any random female > as far as I can tell. > > It's important to note that the bathhouse babes are all marginals, and > occupy the same role on the manuscript as grotesques and other humorous > caricatures. Their depiction also has some elements that seem to evoke > iconographical display of saints, probably meant in a satiric way. I have > elaborated on some of the issues involved in using these ladies as sources > in earlier postings -- search in the archives under the subject line > "Cotehardie Conundrum/Bohemian Bath Attendants" in July 1999. The whole > thread is worth reading, but my posting of July 9 covers this > specifically. > Thanks for the feedback. I'll check on getting that book. BTW, could someone send me Digest #989 and #990. For some reason they did not show up! (it's always nice to know that one's post got through...) Thanks Nancy --part1_151.f3d0b7e.2a3a53ca_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/13/02 2:04:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Robin Netherton writes:


There are quite a few images of fully dressed women in the same
manuscript, and many are reproduced in Olga Sronkova's "Gothic Women's
Fashion." I don't think any of the fully dressed women are specifically
identified as bathwomen, although Sronkova refers to one fully-dressed
female as a "bath attendant in holiday dress" or something like that. I
have no idea why Sronkova calls her that. She could be any random female
as far as I can tell.

It's important to note that the bathhouse babes are all marginals, and
occupy the same role on the manuscript as grotesques and other humorous
caricatures. Their depiction also has some elements that seem to evoke
iconographical display of saints, probably meant in a satiric way. I have
elaborated on some of the issues involved in using these ladies as sources
in earlier postings -- search in the archives under the subject line
"Cotehardie Conundrum/Bohemian Bath Attendants" in July 1999. The whole
thread is worth reading, but my posting of July 9 covers this
specifically.


Thanks for the feedback.  I'll check on getting that book.

BTW, could someone send me Digest #989 and #990.  For some reason they did not show up!  (it's always nice to know that one's post got through...)

Thanks

Nancy --part1_151.f3d0b7e.2a3a53ca_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jun 13 18:18:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA06279 for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 18:18:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5DMD5C12317; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 16:13:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5DMD2I29949; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 16:13:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mx11.cluster1.charter.net (dc-mx11.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.8.21]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5DMCbI29716 for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 16:12:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [66.188.127.221] (HELO laptop) by mx11.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with SMTP id 26990155 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 18:12:31 -0400 Message-ID: <004a01c21327$607f4140$dd7fbc42@mad.chartermi.net> From: "Rebecca Schmitt" To: References: <151.f3d0b7e.2a3a53ca@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume digest, Vol 1 #991 - 7 msgs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 17:12:15 -0500 Status: RO I wish I could accept the credit, but I'm afraid this wasn't me! ********************** Rebecca Schmitt aka Mistress Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot, cod merchant of Bristol, BRF FOF So many books, so little time lotsofteapots@charter.net ********************** ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 3:00 PM Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume digest, Vol 1 #991 - 7 msgs > In a message dated 6/13/02 2:04:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Robin Netherton > writes: > > > > There are quite a few images of fully dressed women in the same > > manuscript, and many are reproduced in Olga Sronkova's "Gothic Women's > > Fashion." I don't think any of the fully dressed women are specifically > > identified as bathwomen, although Sronkova refers to one fully-dressed > > female as a "bath attendant in holiday dress" or something like that. I > > have no idea why Sronkova calls her that. She could be any random female > > as far as I can tell. > > > > It's important to note that the bathhouse babes are all marginals, and > > occupy the same role on the manuscript as grotesques and other humorous > > caricatures. Their depiction also has some elements that seem to evoke > > iconographical display of saints, probably meant in a satiric way. I have > > elaborated on some of the issues involved in using these ladies as sources > > in earlier postings -- search in the archives under the subject line > > "Cotehardie Conundrum/Bohemian Bath Attendants" in July 1999. The whole > > thread is worth reading, but my posting of July 9 covers this > > specifically. > > > > Thanks for the feedback. I'll check on getting that book. > > BTW, could someone send me Digest #989 and #990. For some reason they did > not show up! (it's always nice to know that one's post got through...) > > Thanks > > Nancy > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jun 13 19:09:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA06459 for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 19:09:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5DN46C16095; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 17:04:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5DN41I25364; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 17:04:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m08.mx.aol.com (imo-m08.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.163]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5DN3qI25298 for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 17:03:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.9a.26efcc95 (4216) for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 19:03:44 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <9a.26efcc95.2a3a7ecf@aol.com> To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 138 Subject: [h-cost] Costume Exhibit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 19:03:43 EDT Status: RO I just wanted to let everyone know that our early 19th century costume exhibit, "Dressing the Federal City," is being extended through July 7. Open hours are Fridays and Sundays, noon to 4:00 p.m. There is a small admission fee. Ann Wass Riversdale House Museum 4811 Riverdale Rd. Riverdale Park MD 20737 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 14 03:05:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA03730 for ; Fri, 14 Jun 2002 03:05:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5E715C06104; Fri, 14 Jun 2002 01:01:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5E710I06445; Fri, 14 Jun 2002 01:01:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5E70aI06334 for ; Fri, 14 Jun 2002 01:00:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A52B3E990254; Fri, 14 Jun 2002 02:03:07 -0500 Message-ID: <024e01c21370$cf06f600$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <20020611070950.13322.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com> <3D06320C.7707EEA0@misc.com> <3D063544.C7F2FC65@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] An Explanation about Image and some tips (long) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 02:57:54 -0400 Status: RO Last word, I promise. I do not care if people link to our webpages. I do care if people link to our images only. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 14 03:21:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA03760 for ; Fri, 14 Jun 2002 03:21:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5E7H2C06421; Fri, 14 Jun 2002 01:17:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5E7H1I09829; Fri, 14 Jun 2002 01:17:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from vienna (ip164.ontario68.as5800.psi.ca [154.5.235.164] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5E7GiI09756 for ; Fri, 14 Jun 2002 01:16:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cedar by vienna with local (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17IhYQ-00046K-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 23:15:14 -0400 From: Christine Robb To: h-costume@indra.com Message-ID: <20020614031514.GA15760@vienna> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i Subject: [h-cost] Port Royal & wedding shoes Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 23:15:14 -0400 Status: RO This evening on CBC radio, there was a program on the Order of Good Cheer, about Samuel de Champlain and his method of improving health over the winter in Nova Scotia back in the 17th century. There are recipes on the web site, that may be of interest to some : http://www.radio.cbc.ca/programs/ideas/cheer Not yet on the website, but will be shortly I would imagine, is an exhibit called "The Perfect Pair: Traditional Wedding Shoes from Around the World", which opens June 19 at the Bata Shoe Museum in Toronto, Canada. http://www.batashoemuseum.ca If you do visit Toronto, the Royal Ontario Museum finally has a small clothing and textile exhibit again. The two pink men's suits, one from the 18th century and the other quite recent, are particularly memorable. The proper home will be finished soon. And while you're in Toronto, don't forget to come out English Country dancing, costumes strictly optional. Christine ECD in TO http://www.interlog.com/~cedar _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 14 04:23:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA04008 for ; Fri, 14 Jun 2002 04:23:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5E8J2C08485; Fri, 14 Jun 2002 02:19:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5E8J0I23447; Fri, 14 Jun 2002 02:19:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp4.ihug.co.nz (smtp4.ihug.co.nz [203.109.252.5]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5E8IDI23322 for ; Fri, 14 Jun 2002 02:18:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p3-nas5.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.209.3] by smtp4.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1 (Debian)) id 17ImHZ-0003b6-00; Fri, 14 Jun 2002 20:18:10 +1200 Message-ID: <001e01c2137b$ee3a79b0$03d1adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: <016401c21061$3a8593e0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] You know Teddy's been mentioned too often on h-cost when... Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 20:17:23 +1200 Status: RO You bloody well dream about him! Well at least about a web page of that Tanu costume. There was even a video of the beading process... So there you go Teddy. Ok so to make this costume related. I've managed to finish two projects lurking at the bottom of my wardrobe and am about to complete another costume: The Pink Diamonds costume from Moulin Rouge. I'm in the middle of my second flare of RA so sewing has beena hodgepodge affair and really fricking painful, but it's going to be finished soon. And I'm going to have to pretty up my costume pages to make room for these new items. My next project will be using my orange wool to make a wonderful set of coat shell top and hopefully some garb out of the remainder:) And I want to start an 1840s white dress as I've just read Jane Eyre again (sap that I am I cried while reading it...). So my life in short has been rather hectic. Last thing I needed was Teddy invading my sleep;) michaela _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 14 18:00:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA07027 for ; Fri, 14 Jun 2002 18:00:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5ELtIC28772; Fri, 14 Jun 2002 15:55:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5ELt3I04762; Fri, 14 Jun 2002 15:55:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5ELnFI02033 for ; Fri, 14 Jun 2002 15:49:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from SNSpies@aol.com by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id n.169.f1d4a13 (24898); Fri, 14 Jun 2002 17:49:04 -0400 (EDT) From: SNSpies@aol.com Message-ID: <169.f1d4a13.2a3bbec4@aol.com> To: SCA-GARB@LIST.UVM.EDU, sca-arts@listsvr.pca.net, h-costume@net.indra.com, SCA-Laurels@ansteorra.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_169.f1d4a13.2a3bbec4_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 138 Subject: [h-cost] hairnets, 6th to 16th century C.E. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 17:48:52 EDT Status: RO --part1_169.f1d4a13.2a3bbec4_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is an in-progress bibliography on hairnets from the 6th to 16th century in Europe, with some sprang from Egypt. (It does not include any of the Bronze Age hairnets from Scandinavia.) I would appreciate learning about any other citations or existence of other hairnets. Information about illuminations that show hairnets would also be welcome. Thank you. Nancy Spies Mistress Ingvild Josefsdatter Atlantia << Fleury-Lemberg, Mechthild. "Textile Conservation and Research." Bern: Abegg Stiftung, 1988: 262, 486. A child's hairnet frm the 16th-century tombs of the Counts von Stubenberg is shown. It is made of gold threads knotted together into hexagons with a knotted decorative silk ribbon, trimmed with seed pearls and gold plaques, attached to the bottom of the hairnet and knotted at the back. Wyss, Robert L. 'Die Handarbeiten der Maria.' "Artes Minores: Dank an Werner Abegg." 121-123. Bern: Verlag Staempfli & Cie, 1973. Among many period pictures of Mary doing textile work is a painting, ca. 1460, showing a lady doing netting and an illustration of how to do netting. Crowfoot, Elisabeth, Frances Pritchard, and Kay Staniland. "Textiles and Clothing c. 1150 - c. 1450. HMSO: London, 1992: 145-149. Four examples of plain silk hairnets from 13th- and 14th-century London excavations are shown with pictures of the hairnets, illustrations showing the technique used, two extant netting needles, and technical data. Sorber, Frieda. 'The St.-Truiden Textiles: Embroidered Net, Tabletwoven Borders, Braided and Knotted Trim.' "Medieval Textiles, Particularly in the Meuse-Rhine Area," 51-59. Saint Truiden: Provinciaal Museum voor Religieuze Kunst, 1991. Pieces of seven embroidered nets are preserved among the large number of medieval textiles discovered at St. Truiden, Belgium, all dating from the 13th, 14th, and 15th centuries. Six are complete or nearly complete hairnets while the seventh is too small to determine its function. They are all made of silk with the number of meshes varying from 9 to 64 per square centimeter. They are all worked in the round, and in some of the hairnets remains of braided or woven drawstrings remain. The embroidery on all the hairnets is similar: the small designs in horizontal rows are birds on four nets and geometrical designs on two nets. One of the bird-embroidered hairnets is shown. The embroidery stitches used are darning with additional elements in chainstitch and wrapping. The embroidery differs from the common type of embroidered nets in that the darning on these hairnets is only connected to the knotted ground at the outlines of the design elements rather than incorporating the meshes of the net in the darning process. Mittler, Elmar and Wilfried Werner. "Codex Manesse" (Katalog zur Ausstellung). Heidelberg: Edition Braus, 1988. Two very interesting 14th-century hairnets are shown in this catalogue: one is a circular net worked in alternating rows of white and green silk with 38 shields with different devices, made apparently of leather/suede, attached in circular rows, with a rose, again apparently in leather/suede, at the center of the hairnet. The other hair net is made up of narrow strips of leather/suede, all attached at one end around a ring, then formed into a lattice with small ?flowers of leather/suede at each intersection. The catalogue numbers for these two hairnets are C48 and C49, and the hairnets are shown in color. (The catalogue is incorrect in saying that this second hairnet is made of silk, by the way.) Vassilika, Eleni. "Greek and Roman Art." Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1998, 130-131. A fourth-sixth-century Coptic hairnet/headcovering made in sprang is shown. Rutschowscaya, Marie-Helene. "Coptic Fabrics." Paris: Adam Biro, 1990. A "head net" in linen sprang from Coptic Egypt is shown. Stauffer, Annemarie. "Textiles of Late Antiquity." New York: Metropolitan Museum of Art, 1995. Two sprang "hats" from ?5th-8th century Egypt are shown in color on p. 29 with the catalogue entries on p. 46. Pritchard, Frances. 'Silk Braids and Textiles of the Viking Age from Dublin.' In "Archaeological Textiles" (NESAT II), edited by Lise Bender Joergensen, Bente Magnus, and Elisabeth Munksgaard, 155-156. Copenhagen: Arkaeologisk Institut, 1988. The author mentions that at least seven knotted mesh filets were found in excavations in Dublin, all made of silk, as well as one sprang fragment, also in silk, for which there is not given a function. Zanni, Annalisa. 'The Little Net Bonnet in Museo Poldi Pezzoli in Milan.' In "Interdisciplinary Approach to the Study and Conservation of Medieval Textiles," edited by Rosalia Varoli-Piazza, 196. Rome: Il Mondo 3 Edizioni, 1998. A 9th-century hairnet, of unknown origin, made of beige linen threads with red and ochre wool threads in sprang is shown with drawings showing the construction of the hairnet. Petrascheck-Heim, Ingeborg. "Ausgewaehlte Textilien aus den neuzeitlichen Graebern der Leechkirche." Vienna: Fundberichte aus Oesterreich, 1996. There is a fragment of a ?16th-century silk hairnet is shown. Henshall, A.S., S. Maxwell, and others. 'Early Textiles Found in Scotland.' "Proceedings of the Society of Antiquaries of Scotland" LXXXVI and LXXXVIII (1951-56): 2. The authors mention three or four examples of sprang in "the museum", all made in sprang and all dating from the Viking age or earlier. Spies, Nancy. "Ecclesiastical Pomp and Aristocratic Circumstance: A Thousand Years of Brocaded Tabletwoven Bands." Jarrettsville MD: Arelate Studio, 2000: 40. A line drawing of an embroidered silk mesh hairnet, from the 12th-13th-century tomb of a Hessian "landgrave" in the church of St. Elisabeth in Marburg, Germany, is shown. The hairnet has been divided into large diamonds with a thicker thread in a chain or stem stitch. Alternating rows of diamonds are embroidered with large geometric designs. At the bottom edge of the hairnet is a fragment of a brocaded tabletwoven band woven with green silk and gold thread. Victoria and Albert Museum. I have a black-and-white photograph of an embroidered mesh net that may have been head gear but could also have been a tie on a cloak a la the Mammen cloak. I have no date or provenance for this item as the negative was misnumbered and came with no information! (A letter has been sent to the V & A asking for the missing informaiton.) It is made up of two pieces which appear to have been cut from larger pieces: a long thin piece embroidered entirely with shields with different devices in 15 rows of four shields in each row. The second piece is trapezoidal in shape and is embroidered with shields and "cross crosslets" alternating across each row, there being 8 remaining rows. All the shields have the same device. >> >> --part1_169.f1d4a13.2a3bbec4_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: From: SNSpies@aol.com Full-name: SNSpies Message-ID: Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 12:46:03 EDT Subject: Fwd: [HNW] Re:darned netting technique (Ingvild) To: SNSpies@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part2_169.f1d4a13.2a3a264b_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 138 --part2_169.f1d4a13.2a3a264b_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Fleury-Lemberg, Mechthild. "Textile Conservation and Research." Bern: Abegg Stiftung, 1988: 262, 486. A child's hairnet frm the tombs of the Counts von Stubenberg is shown. It is made of gold threads knotted together into hexagons with a knotted decorative silk ribbon, trimmed with seed pearls and gold plaques, attached to the bottom of the hairnet and knotted at the back. Wyss, Robert L. 'Die Handarbeiten der Maria.' "Artes Minores: Dank an Werner Abegg." 121-123. Bern: Verlag Staempfli & Cie, 1973. Among many period pictures of Mary doing textile work is a painting, ca. 1460, showing a lady doing netting and an illustration of how to do netting. Crowfoot, Elisabeth, Frances Pritchard, and Kay Staniland. "Textiles and Clothing c. 1150 - c. 1450. HMSO: London, 1992: 145-149. Four examples of plain silk hairnets from 13th- and 14th-century London excavations are shown with pictures of the hairnets, illustrations showing the technique used, two extant netting needles, and technical data. Sorber, Frieda. 'The St.-Truiden Textiles: Embroidered Net, Tabletwoven Borders, Braided and Knotted Trim.' "Medieval Textiles, Particularly in the Meuse-Rhine Area," 51-59. Saint Truiden: Provinciaal Museum voor Religieuze Kunst, 1991. Pieces of seven embroidered nets are preserved among the large number of medieval textiles discovered at St. Truiden, Belgium, all dating from the 13th, 14th, and 15th centuries. Six are complete or nearly complete hairnets while the seventh is too small to determine its function. They are all made of silk with the number of meshes varying from 9 to 64 per square centimeter. They are all worked in the round, and in some of the hairnets remains of braided or woven drawstrings remain. The embroidery on all the hairnets is similar: the small designs in horizontal rows are birds on four nets and geometrical designs on two nets. One of the bird-embroidered hairnets is shown. The embroidery stitches used are darning with additional elements in chainstitch and wrapping. The embroidery differs from the common type of embroidered nets in that the darning on these hairnets is only connected to the knotted ground at the outlines of the design elements rather than incorporating the meshes of the net in the darning process. Mittler, Elmar and Wilfried Werner. "Codex Manesse" (Katalog zur Ausstellung). Heidelberg: Edition Braus, 1988. Two very interesting 14th-century hairnets are shown in this catalogue: one is a circular net worked in alternating rows of white and green silk with 38 shields with different devices, made apparently of leather/suede, attached in circular rows, with a rose, again apparently in leather/suede, at the center of the hairnet. The other hair net is made up of narrow strips of leather/suede, all attached at one end around a ring, then formed into a lattice with small ?flowers of leather/suede at each intersection. The catalogue numbers for these two hairnets are C48 and C49, and the hairnets are shown in color. (The catalogue is incorrect in saying that this second hairnet is made of silk, by the way.) Vassilika, Eleni. "Greek and Roman Art." Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1998, 130-131. A fourth-sixth-century Coptic hairnet/headcovering made in sprang is shown. Rutschowscaya, Marie-Helene. "Coptic Fabrics." Paris: Adam Biro, 1990. A "head net" in linen sprang from Coptic Egypt is shown. Stauffer, Annemarie. "Textiles of Late Antiquity." New York: Metropolitan Museum of Art, 1995. Two sprang "hats" from ?5th-8th century Egypt are shown in color on p. 29 with the catalogue entries on p. 46. Pritchard, Frances. 'Silk Braids and Textiles of the Viking Age from Dublin.' In "Archaeological Textiles" (NESAT II), edited by Lise Bender Joergensen, Bente Magnus, and Elisabeth Munksgaard, 155-156. Copenhagen: Arkaeologisk Institut, 1988. The author mentions that at least seven knotted mesh filets were found in excavations in Dublin, all made of silk, as well as one sprang fragment, also in silk, for which there is not given a function. Zanni, Annalisa. 'The Little Net Bonnet in Museo Poldi Pezzoli in Milan.' In "Interdisciplinary Approach to the Study and Conservation of Medieval Textiles," edited by Rosalia Varoli-Piazza, 196. Rome: Il Mondo 3 Edizioni, 1998. A 9th-century hairnet, of unknown origin, made of beige linen threads with red and ochre wool threads in sprang is shown with drawings showing the construction of the hairnet. Petrascheck-Heim, Ingeborg. "Ausgewaehlte Textilien aus den neuzeitlichen Graebern der Leechkirche." Vienna: Fundberichte aus Oesterreich, 1996. There is a fragment of a ?16th-century silk hairnet is shown. Henshall, A.S., S. Maxwell, and others. 'Early Textiles Found in Scotland.' "Proceedings of the Society of Antiquaries of Scotland" LXXXVI and LXXXVIII (1951-56): 2. The authors mention three or four examples of sprang in "the museum", all made in sprang and all dating from the Viking age or earlier. Spies, Nancy. "Ecclesiastical Pomp and Aristocratic Circumstance: A Thousand Years of Brocaded Tabletwoven Bands." Jarrettsville MD: Arelate Studio, 2000: 40. A line drawing of an embroidered silk mesh hairnet, from the 12th-13th-century tomb of a Hessian "landgrave" in the church of St. Elisabeth in Marburg, Germany, is shown. The hairnet has been divided into large diamonds with a thicker thread in a chain or stem stitch. Alternating rows of diamonds are embroidered with large geometric designs. At the bottom edge of the hairnet is a fragment of a brocaded tabletwoven band woven with green silk and gold thread. Victoria and Albert Museum. I have a black-and-white photograph of an embroidered mesh net that may have been head gear but could also have been a tie on a cloak a la the Mammen cloak. I have no date or provenance for this item as the negative was misnumbered and came with no information! (A letter has been sent to the V & A asking for the missing informaiton.) It is made up of two pieces which appear to have been cut from larger pieces: a long thin piece embroidered entirely with shields with different devices in 15 rows of four shields in each row. The second piece is trapezoidal in shape and is embroidered with shields and "cross crosslets" alternating across each row, there being 8 remaining rows. All the shields have the same device. >> --part2_169.f1d4a13.2a3a264b_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: From: SNSpies@aol.com Full-name: SNSpies Message-ID: <95.1dbaccff.2a368201@aol.com> Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 18:28:17 EDT Subject: Re: [HNW] Re:darned netting technique (Ingvild) To: h-needlework@ansteorra.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 138 << Would you care to share your sources? :) I teach the base netting and am always on the lookout for more pictures ;) >> OK, here is what I have on hairnets. It is a barely-begun work-in-progress, and I would really appreciate any other citations that folks can contribute. I do not include on this list any of the Bronze Age hairnets shown in Hald (contact me if you want these citations), but I have included in-period, i.e. 6th to 16th century, citations about sprang caps that, in my opinion, are borderline hairnets due to the technique used to make them. These citations are given in no particular order, and again, I ask that anyone who has further citations to post them to the list. Thanks. Nancy / Ingvild Wyss, Robert L. 'Die Handarbeiten der Maria.' "Artes Minores: Dank an Werner Abegg." 121-123. Bern: Verlag Staempfli & Cie, 1973. Among many period pictures of Mary doing textile work is a painting, ca. 1460, showing a lady doing netting and an illustration of how to do netting. Crowfoot, Elisabeth, Frances Pritchard, and Kay Staniland. "Textiles and Clothing c. 1150 - c. 1450. HMSO: London, 1992: 145-149. Four examples of plain silk hairnets from 13th- and 14th-century London excavations are shown with pictures of the hairnets, illustrations showing the technique used, two extant netting needles, and technical data. Sorber, Frieda. 'The St.-Truiden Textiles: Embroidered Net, Tabletwoven Borders, Braided and Knotted Trim.' "Medieval Textiles, Particularly in the Meuse-Rhine Area," 51-59. Saint Truiden: Provinciaal Museum voor Religieuze Kunst, 1991. Pieces of seven embroidered nets are preserved among the large number of medieval textiles discovered at St. Truiden, Belgium, all dating from the 13th, 14th, and 15th centuries. Six are complete or nearly complete hairnets while the seventh is too small to determine its function. They are all made of silk with the number of meshes varying from 9 to 64 per square centimeter. They are all worked in the round, and in some of the hairnets remains of braided or woven drawstrings remain. The embroidery on all the hairnets is similar: the small designs in horizontal rows are birds on four nets and geometrical designs on two nets. One of the bird-embroidered hairnets is shown. The embroidery stitches used are darning with additional elements in chainstitch and wrapping. The embroidery differs from the common type of embroidered nets in that the darning on these hairnets is only connected to the knotted ground at the outlines of the design elements rather than incorporating the meshes of the net in the darning process. Mittler, Elmar and Wilfried Werner. "Codex Manesse" (Katalog zur Ausstellung). Heidelberg: Edition Braus, 1988. Two very interesting 14th-century hairnets are shown in this catalogue: one is a circular net worked in alternating rows of white and green silk with 38 shields with different devices, made apparently of leather/suede, attached in circular rows, with a rose, again apparently in leather/suede, at the center of the hairnet. The other hair net is made up of narrow strips of leather/suede, all attached at one end around a ring, then formed into a lattice with small ?flowers of leather/suede at each intersection. The catalogue numbers for these two hairnets are C48 and C49, and the hairnets are shown in color. (The catalogue is incorrect in saying that this second hairnet is made of silk, by the way.) Vassilika, Eleni. "Greek and Roman Art." Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1998, 130-131. A fourth-sixth-century Coptic hairnet/headcovering made in sprang is shown. Rutschowscaya, Marie-Helene. "Coptic Fabrics." Paris: Adam Biro, 1990. A "head net" in linen sprang from Coptic Egypt is shown. Stauffer, Annemarie. "Textiles of Late Antiquity." New York: Metropolitan Museum of Art, 1995. Two sprang "hats" from ?5th-8th century Egypt are shown in color on p. 29 with the catalogue entries on p. 46. Pritchard, Frances. 'Silk Braids and Textiles of the Viking Age from Dublin.' In "Archaeological Textiles" (NESAT II), edited by Lise Bender Joergensen, Bente Magnus, and Elisabeth Munksgaard, 155-156. Copenhagen: Arkaeologisk Institut, 1988. The author mentions that at least seven knotted mesh filets were found in excavations in Dublin, all made of silk, as well as one sprang fragment, also in silk, for which there is not given a function. Zanni, Annalisa. 'The Little Net Bonnet in Museo Poldi Pezzoli in Milan.' In "Interdisciplinary Approach to the Study and Conservation of Medieval Textiles," edited by Rosalia Varoli-Piazza, 196. Rome: Il Mondo 3 Edizioni, 1998. A 9th-century hairnet, of unknown origin, made of beige linen threads with red and ochre wool threads in sprang is shown with drawings showing the construction of the hairnet. Petrascheck-Heim, Ingeborg. "Ausgewaehlte Textilien aus den neuzeitlichen Graebern der Leechkirche." Vienna: Fundberichte aus Oesterreich, 1996. There is a fragment of a ?16th-century silk hairnet is shown. Henshall, A.S., S. Maxwell, and others. 'Early Textiles Found in Scotland.' "Proceedings of the Society of Antiquaries of Scotland" LXXXVI and LXXXVIII (1951-56): 2. The authors mention three or four examples of sprang in "the museum", all made in sprang and all dating from the Viking age or earlier. Spies, Nancy. "Ecclesiastical Pomp and Aristocratic Circumstance: A Thousand Years of Brocaded Tabletwoven Bands." Jarrettsville MD: Arelate Studio, 2000: 40. A line drawing of an embroidered silk mesh hairnet, from the 12th-13th-century tomb of a Hessian "landgrave" in the church of St. Elisabeth in Marburg, Germany, is shown. The hairnet has been divided into large diamonds with a thicker thread in a chain or stem stitch. Alternating rows of diamonds are embroidered with large geometric designs. At the bottom edge of the hairnet is a fragment of a brocaded tabletwoven band woven with green silk and gold thread. Victoria and Albert Museum. I have a black-and-white photograph of an embroidered mesh net that may have been head gear but could also have been a tie on a cloak a la the Mammen cloak. I have no date or provenance for this item as the negative was misnumbered and came with no information! (A letter has been sent to the V & A asking for the missing informaiton.) It is made up of two pieces which appear to have been cut from larger pieces: a long thin piece embroidered entirely with shields with different devices in 15 rows of four shields in each row. The second piece is trapezoidal in shape and is embroidered with shields and "cross crosslets" alternating across each row, there being 8 remaining rows. All the shields have the same device. --part2_169.f1d4a13.2a3a264b_boundary-- --part1_169.f1d4a13.2a3bbec4_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 14 18:21:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA07089 for ; Fri, 14 Jun 2002 18:21:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5EMGHC00469; Fri, 14 Jun 2002 16:16:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5EMG9I14717; Fri, 14 Jun 2002 16:16:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from WDNE2K.mackie.com ([12.144.236.152]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5EMAeI12020 for ; Fri, 14 Jun 2002 16:10:41 -0600 (MDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.5762.3 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: 14th century Italian chemises (again) Thread-Index: AcIT8Dyw84KuswhrQ0WkT2xZmr/N4g== From: "Colleen McDonald" To: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g5EMAeI12020 Subject: [h-cost] 14th century Italian chemises (again) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 15:10:05 -0700 Status: RO Hi all, Here's the latest in the chemise documentation hunt. I have found two paintings that show the long-sleeved version of the chemise (both viewable at The Web Gallery of Art http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/index1.html): Scenes from the Life of Saint John the Baptist (1330-40) MASTER of the Life of Saint John the Baptist Italian painter (active 1325-1350 in Rimini) National Gallery of Art, Washington The painting shows the mother of St John the Baptist lying in bed in her chemise. It looks pretty detailed and I can see that band at the neckline that Robin was mentioning. The Birth of the Virgin (1365) GIOVANNI DA MILANO Italian painter (active 1350-69, Milano, Firenze) Rinuccini Chapel, Santa Croce, Florence This one shows Mary's mother (St. Anne ?) in bed with what appears to be a long-sleeved chemise underneath a looser, sleeveless orange gown. It looks like the chemise is ivory colored but that may just be the age of the fresco. Detail of both courtesy of The Web Gallery of Art. Best regards, Colleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jun 15 01:17:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA08741 for ; Sat, 15 Jun 2002 01:17:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5F5D4C17818; Fri, 14 Jun 2002 23:13:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5F5D1I09550; Fri, 14 Jun 2002 23:13:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (rwcrmhc52.attbi.com [216.148.227.88]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5F58CI08457 for ; Fri, 14 Jun 2002 23:08:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default.attbi.com ([24.245.40.15]) by rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020615050806.FIAZ2751.rwcrmhc52.attbi.com@default.attbi.com> for ; Sat, 15 Jun 2002 05:08:06 +0000 Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20020615001047.00a8c820@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: dannw@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Subject: Re: [h-cost] hairnets, 6th to 16th century C.E. In-Reply-To: <169.f1d4a13.2a3bbec4@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 00:12:33 -0500 Status: RO At 05:48 PM 6/14/2002 -0400, you wrote: >This is an in-progress bibliography on hairnets from the 6th to 16th century >in Europe, with some sprang from Egypt. (It does not include any of the >Bronze Age hairnets from Scandinavia.) I would appreciate learning about any >other citations or existence of other hairnets. Information about >illuminations that show hairnets would also be welcome. Thank you. > >Nancy Spies >Mistress Ingvild Josefsdatter >Atlantia Greetings, I don't know the dates involved or what specific volume # number it was but there was an article on Greek sprang hair nets in the American Journal of Archeology in I think vol 96. Naturally, it was the one volume missing from the library... Cheers, Danielle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jun 15 19:58:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA08914 for ; Sat, 15 Jun 2002 19:58:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5FNsKC24119; Sat, 15 Jun 2002 17:54:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5FNs5I08589; Sat, 15 Jun 2002 17:54:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5FNnlI07657 for ; Sat, 15 Jun 2002 17:49:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [136.152.196.165] (as3-4-179.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.165]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.10.2) with ESMTP id g5FNnjd29122 for ; Sat, 15 Jun 2002 16:49:45 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20020615001047.00a8c820@mail.attbi.com> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20020615001047.00a8c820@mail.attbi.com> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] hairnets, 6th to 16th century C.E. Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 11:48:59 -0700 Status: RO At 12:12 AM -0500 6/15/02, Danielle Nunn-Weinberg wrote: >At 05:48 PM 6/14/2002 -0400, you wrote: >>This is an in-progress bibliography on hairnets from the 6th to 16th century >>in Europe, with some sprang from Egypt. (It does not include any of the >>Bronze Age hairnets from Scandinavia.) I would appreciate learning about any >>other citations or existence of other hairnets. Information about >>illuminations that show hairnets would also be welcome. Thank you. >> >>Nancy Spies >>Mistress Ingvild Josefsdatter >>Atlantia > >Greetings, > >I don't know the dates involved or what specific volume # number it >was but there was an article on Greek sprang hair nets in the >American Journal of Archeology in I think vol 96. Naturally, it was >the one volume missing from the library... Would that be: Jenkins, Ian & Dyfri Williams. 1985. "Sprang Hair Nets: Their manufacture and Use in Ancient Greece" in Am J of Archaeology: 89:411-418. Would you like a copy? I have it in my files. My recollection is that it doesn't involve any actual surviving examples -- the focus is on representations in art that could either be the manufacturing process or the finished product. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jun 15 21:49:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA09413 for ; Sat, 15 Jun 2002 21:49:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5G1jFC27991; Sat, 15 Jun 2002 19:45:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5G1jCI01798; Sat, 15 Jun 2002 19:45:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5G1HpI26414 for ; Sat, 15 Jun 2002 19:17:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A7DB2D040230; Sat, 15 Jun 2002 20:20:27 -0500 Message-ID: <003c01c214d3$a084ade0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] Interesting Photo Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 21:17:47 -0400 Status: RO Go to http://www.iespana.es/lucessombras/GALERIA1/galeria4.htm and click on the last thumbnail photo of a man. He has a really interesting costume on. Any guess as to what it is called? Or is this an occupational costume? Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jun 15 22:08:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA09460 for ; Sat, 15 Jun 2002 22:08:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5G245C28673; Sat, 15 Jun 2002 20:04:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5G244I05659; Sat, 15 Jun 2002 20:04:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.99main.com (mail.99main.com [208.28.184.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5G1uEI04086 for ; Sat, 15 Jun 2002 19:56:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 99main.com (max2-101.99main.com [208.28.186.101]) by mail.99main.com (8.9.2/8.9.2/000116) with ESMTP id VAA14939 for ; Sat, 15 Jun 2002 21:56:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3D0BF037.50808@99main.com> From: marilyn traber User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Interesting Photo References: <003c01c214d3$a084ade0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 21:56:07 -0400 Status: RO Do you mean the clergy man [black long cloak over a cassock] or the zoave with the big bang-stick? -- ~~~~~ The Quote Starts Here: Quoth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jun 15 22:09:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA09464 for ; Sat, 15 Jun 2002 22:09:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5G24KC28717; Sat, 15 Jun 2002 20:04:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5G24II05720; Sat, 15 Jun 2002 20:04:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scanmail4.cableone.net (scanmail4.cableone.net [24.116.0.124]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5G1vII04300 for ; Sat, 15 Jun 2002 19:57:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scanmail4.cableone.net ([10.116.0.124]) by scanmail4.cableone.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Sat, 15 Jun 2002 18:56:38 -0700 Received: from scanmail4.cableone.net [24.116.0.124] by scanmail4.cableone.net (SMTPD32-7.04) id A05621020118; Sat, 15 Jun 2002 18:56:38 -0700 Received: from kimathlon (186-130.farcpe.cableone.net [24.116.186.130]) by mail.cableone.net with SMTP (MailShield v2.04 - WIN32 Jul 17 2001 17:12:42); Sat, 15 Jun 2002 18:56:37 -0600 From: "Kim Baird" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Interesting Photo Message-ID: <000e01c214d9$19f99140$6501a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <003c01c214d3$a084ade0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> X-SMTP-HELO: kimathlon X-SMTP-MAIL-FROM: kbaird@cableone.net X-SMTP-RCPT-TO: h-costume@indra.com X-SMTP-PEER-INFO: 186-130.farcpe.cableone.net [24.116.186.130] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 20:56:58 -0500 Status: RO I wonder if he is a priest? Kim -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of Penny Ladnier Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2002 8:18 PM To: h-costume Subject: [h-cost] Interesting Photo Go to http://www.iespana.es/lucessombras/GALERIA1/galeria4.htm and click on the last thumbnail photo of a man. He has a really interesting costume on. Any guess as to what it is called? Or is this an occupational costume? Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jun 16 02:22:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA10142 for ; Sun, 16 Jun 2002 02:22:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5G6IDC07732; Sun, 16 Jun 2002 00:18:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5G6I3I26373; Sun, 16 Jun 2002 00:18:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5G69oI24844 for ; Sun, 16 Jun 2002 00:09:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.35.247]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GXS00320BSDD6@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 15 Jun 2002 23:09:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Interesting Photo In-reply-to: <003c01c214d3$a084ade0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020615230444.00c7ae40@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 23:07:03 -0700 Status: RO >Go to http://www.iespana.es/lucessombras/GALERIA1/galeria4.htm and click on >the last thumbnail photo of a man. He has a really interesting costume on. >Any guess as to what it is called? Or is this an occupational costume? Eclesiastical is my guess. Look at the hat, the tasseled cord holding the cloak together, and the cassock-like garment he's wearing. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jun 16 04:09:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA10494 for ; Sun, 16 Jun 2002 04:09:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5G85CC10718; Sun, 16 Jun 2002 02:05:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5G855I15031; Sun, 16 Jun 2002 02:05:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13301.mail.yahoo.com (web13301.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.37]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g5G7xaI14121 for ; Sun, 16 Jun 2002 01:59:37 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020616075935.26198.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13301.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 16 Jun 2002 08:59:35 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Interesting Photo To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <003c01c214d3$a084ade0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 08:59:35 +0100 (BST) Status: RO Oh yes, he's a priest. Is it a Spanish gallery? Yes, from the URL I assume so. I recall photos from my grandparents and older showing priests wear similar robes, Catholic priests. Nicole --- Penny Ladnier wrote: > Go to http://www.iespana.es/lucessombras/GALERIA1/galeria4.htm and click on > the last thumbnail photo of a man. He has a really interesting costume on. > Any guess as to what it is called? Or is this an occupational costume? > > Penny Ladnier > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > http://www.costumegallery.com > http://www.costumeclassroom.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jun 16 11:44:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA16511 for ; Sun, 16 Jun 2002 11:44:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5GFe8C20466; Sun, 16 Jun 2002 09:40:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5GFe2a29946; Sun, 16 Jun 2002 09:40:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5GFXQI28736 for ; Sun, 16 Jun 2002 09:33:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a29.in-tch.com [66.62.107.9]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g5GFK3906689 for ; Sun, 16 Jun 2002 09:20:03 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3D0CB10C.5AF8F56D@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Interesting Photo References: <003c01c214d3$a084ade0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 09:38:52 -0600 Status: RO A priest of some sort? or a pastor? --sue Penny Ladnier wrote: > > Go to http://www.iespana.es/lucessombras/GALERIA1/galeria4.htm and click on > the last thumbnail photo of a man. He has a really interesting costume on. > Any guess as to what it is called? Or is this an occupational costume? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jun 16 14:30:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17169 for ; Sun, 16 Jun 2002 14:30:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5GIQ6C25928; Sun, 16 Jun 2002 12:26:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5GIQ3a03722; Sun, 16 Jun 2002 12:26:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5GILha02798 for ; Sun, 16 Jun 2002 12:21:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A7D65AE701F2; Sun, 16 Jun 2002 13:24:22 -0500 Message-ID: <002001c21562$ab607980$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <20020616075935.26198.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Interesting Photo X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 14:21:44 -0400 Status: RO Nicole, This is a Spanish Gallery. Here is the whole URL if you want to see all the galleries http://www.iespana.es/lucessombras/ Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jun 16 14:39:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17178 for ; Sun, 16 Jun 2002 14:39:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5GIZ4C26441; Sun, 16 Jun 2002 12:35:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5GIZ1a05910; Sun, 16 Jun 2002 12:35:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5GIS9a04285 for ; Sun, 16 Jun 2002 12:28:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A9585AFC01F2; Sun, 16 Jun 2002 13:30:48 -0500 Message-ID: <004701c21563$91980580$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <000e01c214d9$19f99140$6501a8c0@kimathlon> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Interesting Photo X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 14:28:10 -0400 Status: RO I wonder too. Its a great costume! Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jun 16 14:39:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17182 for ; Sun, 16 Jun 2002 14:39:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5GIZAC26454; Sun, 16 Jun 2002 12:35:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5GIZ9a05939; Sun, 16 Jun 2002 12:35:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5GISba04388 for ; Sun, 16 Jun 2002 12:28:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A9752DB1020C; Sun, 16 Jun 2002 13:31:17 -0500 Message-ID: <004c01c21563$a26b93e0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <003c01c214d3$a084ade0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> <3D0BF037.50808@99main.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Interesting Photo X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 14:28:38 -0400 Status: RO Yes, Marilyn. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jun 16 15:29:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA17357 for ; Sun, 16 Jun 2002 15:29:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5GJPHC28167; Sun, 16 Jun 2002 13:25:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5GJP2a16464; Sun, 16 Jun 2002 13:25:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5GJJia15297 for ; Sun, 16 Jun 2002 13:19:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A57036910244; Sun, 16 Jun 2002 14:22:24 -0500 Message-ID: <00c901c2156a$c5d54400$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] Pearl Help Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 15:19:44 -0400 Status: RO Someone emailed me looking for synethic pearls. Below is her message. If you can help, please email her directly. ************************************************************************** I'm in the midst of doing my interpretation of the Eleanora de Medici gown she wore in the sitting with Bronzino. A jeweler friend of mine is making an interpretation of the belt...however, we're having difficulty finding a "pearl" appropriate to use for the large baroque pearl before the cascade of smaller pearls. Anyway, that pearl appears to be somewhere in the neighborhood of 24mm or more. Would you know of anywhere a synthetic pearl (oh heavens would I love to be able to afford even a cultured pearl of that size!) over 20mm can be found. I've tried all my standard suppliers and am just not getting anywhere. I'm really looking for something of a decent (glass, good resin, not cheap Christmas-decoration plastic) appearance. (Since smokey quartz and garnets will be used in the piece I hate the idea of having to use a tacky substitute.) Unfortunately, I live in the backwoods of Montana (entirely by choice!) and don't have much access to decorators, etc. If there's any advice, suggestions, vendors or help you could provide I would greatly appreciately. Ideally I'm looking for a white baroque synthetic pearl in the neighborhood of 22-26mm, preferably somewhat oval (the baroque), not a round/spherical. Thanks for any help you can provide, I really appreciate it. PLEASE RESPOND TO nikkijim@montana.com thank you. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jun 16 15:30:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA17370 for ; Sun, 16 Jun 2002 15:30:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5GJPUC28184; Sun, 16 Jun 2002 13:25:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5GJPTa16553; Sun, 16 Jun 2002 13:25:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailhost.softwareinnovation.com (w002.z064000176.dfw-tx.dsl.cnc.net [64.0.176.2]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5GJK4a15412 for ; Sun, 16 Jun 2002 13:20:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from theforce [64.0.176.2] by mailhost.softwareinnovation.com (SMTPD32-6.00) id A50D200380; Sun, 16 Jun 2002 14:20:45 -0500 From: "Betsy Marshall" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Interesting Photo Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 In-Reply-To: <004701c21563$91980580$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 14:20:44 -0500 Status: RO gotta love the use of props, notice how the rug goes _under_ the column? I also suspect a painted backdrop- seems to be a portrait studio... Betsy (aspiring Photographer) -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On Behalf Of Penny Ladnier Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2002 1:28 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Interesting Photo I wonder too. Its a great costume! Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jun 16 18:27:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA18218 for ; Sun, 16 Jun 2002 18:27:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5GMN8C04597; Sun, 16 Jun 2002 16:23:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5GMN1a24244; Sun, 16 Jun 2002 16:23:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (oe152.pav0.hotmail.com [64.4.33.145]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5GMEua22654 for ; Sun, 16 Jun 2002 16:14:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 16 Jun 2002 15:14:51 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [67.24.230.98] From: "Gia Gavino" To: "Costume List" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Interesting Photo MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MSN Explorer 7.00.0021.1900 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0001_01C21548.90458920" Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Jun 2002 22:14:51.0513 (UTC) FILETIME=[3C3A0690:01C21583] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 15:14:52 -0700 Status: RO ------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C21548.90458920 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Very interesting photo! I'm going to jump into the fray with a few deduc= tions, and guesses (wild or otherwise)! Given the back drop, which appears to be ornate, but not in the manner th= at I am thinking would be appropriate for 'clergy'. It looks like a stag= e front or in front of a 'governmental building' (like a city hall?). So, the costume could be for a stage production? Or maybe a judicial or = some such thing? Giacinta not my period, but I'm intrigued! ----- Original Message ----- From: Sue Clemenger Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2002 8:43 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Interesting Photo A priest of some sort? or a pastor? --sue Penny Ladnier wrote: > > Go to http://www.iespana.es/lucessombras/GALERIA1/galeria4.htm and clic= k on > the last thumbnail photo of a man. He has a really interesting costume= on. > Any guess as to what it is called? Or is this an occupational costume? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C21548.90458920 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Very interesti= ng photo!  I'm going to jump into the fray with a few deductions, an= d guesses (wild or otherwise)!
 
Given the bac= k drop, which appears to be ornate, but not in the manner that I am = thinking would be appropriate for 'clergy'.  It looks like a stage f= ront or in front of a 'governmental building' (like a city hall?).
=
 
So, the costume could be for a stage production?&n= bsp; Or maybe a judicial or some such thing?
 
Giacinta
not my period, but I'm intrigued!
 <= /DIV>
----- Original Message -----
From: Sue Cleme= nger
Sent: Sunday, June 16, = 2002 8:43 AM
To: h-costume@i= ndra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cos= t] Interesting Photo
 
A priest of some sort? or a p= astor?
--sue

Penny Ladnier wrote:
>
> Go to http://= www.iespana.es/lucessombras/GALERIA1/galeria4.htm and click on
> th= e last thumbnail photo of a man.  He has a really interesting costum= e on.
> Any guess as to what it is called?  Or is this an occu= pational costume?
_______________________________________________
h= -costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
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------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C21548.90458920-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jun 16 21:22:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA18841 for ; Sun, 16 Jun 2002 21:22:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5H1IRC10806; Sun, 16 Jun 2002 19:18:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5H1IKa01652; Sun, 16 Jun 2002 19:18:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5H1BNa00101 for ; Sun, 16 Jun 2002 19:11:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lindo (ip156.sns.du.radix.net [207.192.133.156]) by saltmine.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with SMTP id g5H1BIV3024304 for ; Sun, 16 Jun 2002 21:11:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200206170111.g5H1BIV3024304@saltmine.radix.net> X-Sender: lindo@saltmine.radix.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kevin + Mara Riley Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: [h-cost] FW: Reenactor's Flea market Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 21:08:53 -0400 Status: RO Passing the info along... For those of you in the DC area, this is coming up on June 29. She may be taking late seller registrations, I'm not sure. ----------------------------------- REENACTOR'S FLEA MARKET Sell, buy or barter for items from BC to World War II Saturday, June 29, 2002 Rain date June 30, 2002 9 AM - 2 PM Limited to vintage and authentic reproductin reenacting items as well as camping comfort items only. No sutlers please. Selling: Sellers must contact Eric Littlewood or Susan Parris by June 15, 2002 at 301-607-8470 or sparris@starpower.net to register. Be sure to bring a table or blanket for displaying your items. Tents and awnings may not be used. Most of the area will be shaded naturally. Buying: bring cash in small bills and a truck. Location: Mount Airy, Maryland Directions from North, East or West: From I-70, take the "Route 27 Damascus Mount Airy" exit. Go south on Route 27 approximately half a mile. Take the second LEFT on Penn Shop Road. (Do not turn right on Penn Shop at the stop light prior to the LEFT turn on Penn shop.) Yield to the right at the circle on Long Corner Road. Go approximately 1 mile to 1835 Long Corner on the left. Follow "reenactor" signs on Long Corner Road. Directions from the South: Go north on I-270 to exit 16A (Route 27, Father Hurley Blvd.) Stay to your right off the exit and go 7 miles on Route 27 North. In Damascus, yield right at the second light on Route 108 East. Take the third left on Howard Chapel Drive. Turn right at the dead end on Gue Road. Then turn left at the dead end on Long Corner Road. Go approximately 2 miles to 1835 Long Corner Road on the right. Follow "reenactor" signs on Long Corner Road. Items for Sale: Linen and other fabrics, leather, eating utensils, cooking equipment, Ikea cot with springs and mattress, pole weapons, daggers, armor, helmets, mail, tents, small propane tent heater, sheep skins, clothing, hats, handmade Viking bed, baskets... and whatever else people bring to sell. Kevin + Mara Riley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 17 01:12:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA19627 for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 01:12:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5H56GC20081; Sun, 16 Jun 2002 23:06:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5H562a22558; Sun, 16 Jun 2002 23:06:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5H4xBa20912 for ; Sun, 16 Jun 2002 22:59:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id AD2F1A4A0288; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 00:01:35 -0500 Message-ID: <004501c215bb$af38d440$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Interesting Photo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0041_01C2159A.27DC6FA0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 00:58:55 -0400 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01C2159A.27DC6FA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Did anyone look at the Spanish hairstyles on the ladies' photos in that gallery? They are beautiful. So are the little girls. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01C2159A.27DC6FA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Did anyone look at the Spanish = hairstyles on the=20 ladies' photos in that gallery?  They are beautiful.  So are = the=20 little girls.
 
Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume = Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com =
http://www.costumeclassroom.com<= /A>
 
------=_NextPart_000_0041_01C2159A.27DC6FA0-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 17 02:11:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA06849 for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 02:11:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5H674C21921; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 00:07:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5H670a04852; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 00:07:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5H5wVa03132 for ; Sun, 16 Jun 2002 23:58:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.35.247]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GXU001QY5XIE0@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 16 Jun 2002 22:58:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Interesting Photo In-reply-to: <004501c215bb$af38d440$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020616225719.00c7a1e0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 22:57:41 -0700 Status: RO >Did anyone look at the Spanish hairstyles on the ladies' photos in that >gallery? They are beautiful. So are the little girls. Mostly 1870s. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 17 03:06:14 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA15152 for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 03:06:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5H725C23415; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 01:02:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5H721a15163; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 01:02:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com (imo-d06.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.38]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5H6vBa14230 for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 00:57:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from FyneHats2@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.18c.953287d (3866) for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 02:57:04 -0400 (EDT) From: FyneHats2@aol.com Message-ID: <18c.953287d.2a3ee23f@aol.com> To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_18c.953287d.2a3ee23f_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10512 Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume digest, Vol 1 #994 - 7 msgs Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 02:57:03 EDT Status: RO --part1_18c.953287d.2a3ee23f_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/16/2002 11:08:43 AM Pacific Daylight Time, h-costume-request@indra.com writes: > http://www.iespana.es/lucessombras/GALERIA1/galeria4.htm --part1_18c.953287d.2a3ee23f_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/16/2002 11:08:43 AM Pacific Daylight Time, h-costume-request@indra.com writes:


http://www.iespana.es/lucessombras/GALERIA1/galeria4.htm


--part1_18c.953287d.2a3ee23f_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 17 03:15:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA15180 for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 03:15:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5H7B3C23618; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 01:11:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5H7B2a16721; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 01:11:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d09.mx.aol.com (imo-d09.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.41]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5H73ka15460 for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 01:03:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from FyneHats2@aol.com by imo-d09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.1ab.3c86daa (3866) for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 03:03:37 -0400 (EDT) From: FyneHats2@aol.com Message-ID: <1ab.3c86daa.2a3ee3c9@aol.com> To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_1ab.3c86daa.2a3ee3c9_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10512 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Mystery man in photo Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 03:03:37 EDT Status: RO --part1_1ab.3c86daa.2a3ee3c9_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > http://www.iespana.es/lucessombras/GALERIA1/galeria4.htm > > > If you look in Racinet's Full Color Pictorial History of Western Costume on > plate 59 bottom photo lower left, there is a man dressed similiarly to the > Spanish photo except this one is in white. It is from Italian Religious > orders 17th cent of students of Roman religious colleges. Our particular > one is from Salviati College and except for color could be identical so it > probably is of some Spanish Catholic cleric. Some clothes don't change much over the years!! Donna Scarfe Fyne Hats By Felicity Period Headgear for Past Ages. --part1_1ab.3c86daa.2a3ee3c9_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
http://www.iespana.es/lucessombras/GALERIA1/galeria4.htm
  

If you look in Racinet's Full Color Pictorial History of Western Costume on plate 59 bottom photo lower left, there is a man dressed similiarly to the Spanish photo except this one is in white. It is from Italian Religious orders 17th cent of students of Roman religious colleges.  Our particular one is from Salviati College and except for color could be identical so it probably is of some Spanish Catholic cleric.  Some clothes do
n't change much over the years!!

Donna Scarfe
Fyne Hats By Felicity
Period Headgear for Past Ages.
 --part1_1ab.3c86daa.2a3ee3c9_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 17 05:38:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA15684 for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 05:38:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5H9Y5C26960; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 03:34:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5H9Y4a10819; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 03:34:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5H9QIa09580 for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 03:26:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KJ18KK9LS000G27E@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 10:29:27 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KJ18KGALOS00IR4A@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 10:29:20 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Mon, 17 Jun 2002 10:23:13 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Mon, 17 Jun 2002 10:22:46 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.72) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 10:22:41 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] You know Teddy's been mentioned too often on h-cost when... In-reply-to: <200206141804.g5EI4DI15251@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <537B0746B3A@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 10:22:41 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > You bloody well dream about him! Well at least about a web page of > that Tanu costume. There was even a video of the beading process... > > So there you go Teddy. Oh Michaela, I'm sorry! > So my life in short has been rather hectic. Last thing I needed > was Teddy invading my sleep;) The only thing I can offer by way of condolences for this is that you aren't the only one.... I had a dream, a couple of weeks ago, wheree Robin Netherton made an appearance. Nothing to do with costume, I'm afraid, She was teaching Barn-dancing to a group of farmers and their wives - but had to teach them how to build a suitqble barn first, in order to hve somewhere to dance. I meant to e-mail Robin about it at the time, but got sidetracked by that 'life' thing that's going around at the moment. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 17 10:10:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA16519 for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 10:10:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5HE6FC06068; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 08:06:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5HE6Aa08456; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 08:06:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5HDvka05678 for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 07:57:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA00600 for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 09:21:18 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] You know Teddy's been mentioned too often on h-cost when... In-Reply-To: <537B0746B3A@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 09:21:18 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Mon, 17 Jun 2002, Teddy wrote: > I had a dream, a couple of weeks ago, wheree Robin Netherton > made an appearance. Nothing to do with costume, I'm afraid, She > was teaching Barn-dancing to a group of farmers and their wives - > but had to teach them how to build a suitqble barn first, in order to > hve somewhere to dance. ROTFLMAO! Obviously you have never seen me dance. (And although I have been in plenty of barns, being a good Midwestern girl, I have never built one.) What a picture... --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 17 17:51:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA22466 for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 17:51:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5HLlAC21073; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 15:47:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5HLl1a26327; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 15:47:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r06.mx.aol.com (imo-r06.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.102]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5HLeba22274 for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 15:40:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.71.210f4f09 (3858) for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 17:40:19 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <71.210f4f09.2a3fb143@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Interesting Photo To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_71.210f4f09.2a3fb143_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10568 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 17:40:19 EDT Status: RO --part1_71.210f4f09.2a3fb143_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/16/2002 4:06:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time, nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com writes: > Oh yes, he's a priest. Yes, the hat with the curled brim give him away Is it a Spanish gallery? Evidentemente. It will be interesting to see how Hispanic culture shows itself in the other costumes. For instance, the "zouave"...what is he really? A Spanish/Mexican cadet? --part1_71.210f4f09.2a3fb143_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/16/2002 4:06:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time, nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com writes:


Oh yes, he's a priest.


Yes, the hat with the curled brim give him away

Is it a Spanish gallery?

Evidentemente. It will be interesting to see how Hispanic culture shows itself in the other costumes. For instance, the "zouave"...what is he really? A Spanish/Mexican cadet?


--part1_71.210f4f09.2a3fb143_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 17 18:05:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA22497 for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 18:05:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5HM1DC23987; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 16:01:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5HM1Aa05810; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 16:01:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r06.mx.aol.com (imo-r06.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.102]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5HLs7a01072 for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 15:54:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 6.f2.1d33f7a4 (3858) for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 17:54:00 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Interesting Photo To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_f2.1d33f7a4.2a3fb478_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10568 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 17:54:00 EDT Status: RO --part1_f2.1d33f7a4.2a3fb478_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 6/16/2002 6:24:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time,=20 giagavino@msn.com writes: > So, the costume could be for a stage production? =20 I doubt it. Pastors did wear these things....still do no?....just not as=20 much. And of course one would dress up for one's photo. Photographers then=20 had all sorts of painted backdrops that look theatrical. If this is a=20 traveling photographer, there may not have been too many backgrounds to chos= e=20 from.=20 He looks like he's standing on those typical Mexican rugs you see in the=20 market. The backdrop is really just a painted balustrade. The column is=20 obviously fake since the rugs go under it. Notice how the composition is the= =20 same in the sixth photo....but the rather short Se=F1ora has a real balustra= de. Both photos may have been taken outside so as to have enough light. --part1_f2.1d33f7a4.2a3fb478_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 6/16/2002 6:24:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time, giagavino@ms= n.com writes:


So, the costume could be fo= r a stage production?  


I doubt it. Pastors did wear these things....still do no?....just not as= much. And of course one would dress up for one's photo. Photographers then=20= had all sorts of painted backdrops that look theatrical. If this is a travel= ing photographer, there may not have been too many backgrounds to chose from= .=20

He looks like he's standing on those typical Mexican rugs you see in the= market. The backdrop is really just a painted balustrade. The column is obv= iously fake since the rugs go under it. Notice how the composition is the sa= me in the sixth photo....but the rather short Se=F1ora has a real balustrade= .

Both photos may have been taken outside so as to have enough light. --part1_f2.1d33f7a4.2a3fb478_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 17 18:31:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA22576 for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 18:31:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5HMR4C29359; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 16:27:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5HMR2a22584; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 16:27:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web10603.mail.yahoo.com (web10603.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.167]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g5HMJDa17403 for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 16:19:13 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020617221912.87965.qmail@web10603.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [66.85.18.180] by web10603.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 15:19:12 PDT From: Ruble Anita To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] viking necklace Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 15:19:12 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO Greetings to this list: Help! I am trying to find out what Vikings strung their necklaces on - leather, hemp cord, wool thread or linen. I have found some information and pictures of finds from some burials - Birka, I think. However, none of may sources say what the necklaces were strung on. Any help, sources, etc would be greatly appreciated. Alienor of Southwark Outlands, Citadel of the Southern Pass ===== Anita Ruble aka Alienor __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 17 21:13:15 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA23361 for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 21:13:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5I196C14307; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 19:09:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5I191a00537; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 19:09:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5I11Ba28013 for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 19:01:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA05054 for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 20:24:45 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] Article on online fabric stores Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 20:24:45 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO This article from my hometown paper in St. Louis mostly concentrates on local fabric stores that have started Web sites. It does include references to a few sites favored by people on this list, and there's an interesting set of links at the end -- including a site called www.missingfabrics.com, where people can try to hook up with stores to find a particular fabric! The URL is long, and I don't know if it will change tomorrow. Try this first (you'll have to cut-and-paste if the URL splits): http://home.post-dispatch.com/channel/pdweb.nsf/TodayMonday/86256A0E0068FE5086256BDB00309CE5?OpenDocument And if that doesn't work, go to http://www.stltoday.com and search till you find the article printed in the Post-Dispatch on June 17, business section, titled "Fabric retailers get a feel for Internet business," by Jerri Stroud. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 17 22:44:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA23697 for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 22:44:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5I2e6C18598; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 20:40:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5I2e2a26260; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 20:40:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5I2Y3a24582 for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 20:34:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comcast.net (pcp670884pcs.indpnd01.mo.comcast.net [68.34.234.170]) by mtaout02.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.8 (built May 13 2002)) with ESMTP id <0GXV00MQUR4MSB@mtaout02.icomcast.net> for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 22:33:58 -0400 (EDT) From: "Linda J. Thompson" To: Historic Costume Message-id: <3D0E9D04.9030105@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 Subject: [h-cost] Fresco/costumes book (for colleen) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: LindaJThompson@comcast.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 21:37:56 -0500 Status: RO Sorry it took so long to get back to you. I have just spent the week from hell. Save me from community directors who think it is perfectly acceptable to do a period piece with 40 actors and no assistant to help her... 6 weeks into it, and still no call list for actors, nor scene blocking for the last half of play. How do I tell them what to wear, when they do not know yet which scene they are in!!! Ahhh I feel better now.. The book is indeed "Costumi A Issogne" Copyright Musumeci Editore 1991 Region Amerique, 99 - Quart (Valle d`Aosta) Telefono 0165.765 222 This is the isbn and what followed it ? ISBN 88-7032-357-9 [365] Tutti i diritti di traduzione, riproduzione e adattamento sono riservati per tutti i Paesi Whether the layouts or period or not, at least the pics are of fresco's that appear to be medieval time period. (not my thing... so don't know for sure) Linda Thompson Visit www.seams-to-be.com where Attitude is Everything _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 18 00:47:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA24209 for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 00:47:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5I4hPC24045; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 22:43:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5I4hNa29387; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 22:43:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f220.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.220]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5I4ZYa27524 for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 22:35:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 21:35:28 -0700 Received: from 24.55.6.126 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 04:35:28 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.55.6.126] From: "Maggie Secara" To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@net.indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fresco/costumes book (for colleen) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Jun 2002 04:35:28.0715 (UTC) FILETIME=[92AC41B0:01C21681] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 21:35:28 -0700 Status: RO Tell the director you think it would be really forward looking to do the whole thing in modern dress, and suggest t-shirts and blue jeans. Maybe that will wake 'm up! ;-) MaggiRos >From: "Linda J. Thompson" >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: Historic Costume >Subject: [h-cost] Fresco/costumes book (for colleen) >Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 21:37:56 -0500 > >Sorry it took so long to get back to you. I have just spent the week from >hell. >Save me from community directors who think it is perfectly acceptable to do >a period piece with 40 actors and no assistant to help her... 6 weeks into >it, and still no call list for actors, nor scene blocking for the last half >of play. How do I tell them what to wear, when they do not know yet which >scene they are in!!! > >Ahhh I feel better now... _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 18 00:47:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA24213 for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 00:47:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5I4hgC24075; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 22:43:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5I4hfa29475; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 22:43:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f220.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.220]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5I4ZYa27525 for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 22:35:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 21:35:28 -0700 Received: from 24.55.6.126 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 04:35:28 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.55.6.126] From: "Maggie Secara" To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@net.indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fresco/costumes book (for colleen) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Jun 2002 04:35:28.0715 (UTC) FILETIME=[92AC41B0:01C21681] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 21:35:28 -0700 Status: RO Tell the director you think it would be really forward looking to do the whole thing in modern dress, and suggest t-shirts and blue jeans. Maybe that will wake 'm up! ;-) MaggiRos >From: "Linda J. Thompson" >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: Historic Costume >Subject: [h-cost] Fresco/costumes book (for colleen) >Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 21:37:56 -0500 > >Sorry it took so long to get back to you. I have just spent the week from >hell. >Save me from community directors who think it is perfectly acceptable to do >a period piece with 40 actors and no assistant to help her... 6 weeks into >it, and still no call list for actors, nor scene blocking for the last half >of play. How do I tell them what to wear, when they do not know yet which >scene they are in!!! > >Ahhh I feel better now... _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 18 01:52:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA24362 for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 01:52:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5I5m3C26302; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 23:48:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5I5m1a15510; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 23:48:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5I5hta14541 for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 23:43:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (213-78-121-164.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.121.164]) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AHJ79049; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 06:43:44 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <009501c2168c$2feeb200$a4794ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <20020617221912.87965.qmail@web10603.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] viking necklace MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 06:51:26 +0100 Status: RO >Help! I am trying to find out what Vikings strung their necklaces on - leather, hemp cord, wool thread or linen. I have found some information and pictures of finds from some burials - Birka, I think. However, none of may sources say what the necklaces were strung on. I'm guessing any found in burials would have the string/leather etc long rotted away. My area is Anglo Saxon & I make repro beads I've yet to see a report suggesting what they were strung on, I'm afraid :) Any fabric found are usually very close to metal objects if preserved & few leather objects survive , some but not many. A string by its nature would probably not Beads tend to be lose in graves, if we are lucky in position ! Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 18 04:59:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA20134 for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 04:59:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5I8t9C01892; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 02:55:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5I8t2a27325; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 02:55:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5I8o7a26343 for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 02:50:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KJ2LL4M2GG00Z5CQ@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 09:53:18 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KJ2LL15GH000J77U@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 09:53:14 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 18 Jun 2002 09:47:06 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 18 Jun 2002 09:47:00 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.71) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 09:47:00 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] You know Teddy's been mentioned too often on h-cost when... In-reply-to: <200206171807.g5HI70a20738@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <54F186C25F7@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 09:46:59 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > ROTFLMAO! > > Obviously you have never seen me dance. (And although I have been in > plenty of barns, being a good Midwestern girl, I have never built > one.) > > What a picture... Well, Robin, I don't drive, but I still dreamt I was driving a getaway car in a high speed chase as part of a dream involving James-bond and a very peculiar combination police-station/boutique/beauty- salon a few months ago. I guess *anything's* possible in dreams.... Unfortunately (in my case) they very rarely make sense. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 18 05:13:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA20188 for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 05:13:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5I992C02267; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 03:09:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5I991a00317; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 03:09:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5I93Ra29116 for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 03:03:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KJ2M2LM9YO00FT26@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 10:06:36 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KJ2M2GU85I00J77U@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 10:06:30 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 18 Jun 2002 10:00:20 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 18 Jun 2002 10:00:20 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.71) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 10:00:18 +0000 From: Teddy In-reply-to: <200206171807.g5HI70a20738@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <54F514A4942@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] (h-cost): good pictures of extant garments... Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 10:00:18 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO Hello folks, we just had a new book come in for cataloguing and it has some lovely clear (full page colour) photographs of extant garments from various periods starting with the Pourpoint of Charles de Blois and the Pourpoint de Charles VI and going up through 18th century (possibly 19th as well I've only had a brief look at it) It's in French, which I speak and read very little (practically none, in fact) so I can't give much detail about the text content, but the pictures are good. As far as I can make out, it's from an exhibition about cotton and fashion held in a Paris museum last autumn Le Coton et la Mode: 1000 ans d'aventures Musee Galliera, musee de la mode de la Ville de Paris. 10 novembre - 11 mars 2001. ISBN: 287900490X I'm sure it will be of use to someone out there who can understand the French Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 18 05:36:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA20272 for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 05:36:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5I9W4C02942; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 03:32:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5I9W2a03645; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 03:32:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5I9Opa02072 for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 03:24:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.35.247]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GXW00I2IA5DFU@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 02:24:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Interesting Photo In-reply-to: X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020618013816.00c7fee0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 01:38:43 -0700 Status: RO >Both photos may have been taken outside so as to have enough light. Some photographers had skylights in their studios. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 18 06:04:19 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA20400 for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 06:04:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5IA04C03607; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 04:00:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5IA01a09246; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 04:00:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13304.mail.yahoo.com (web13304.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.40]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g5I9tna08337 for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 03:55:50 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020618095549.89226.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13304.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 10:55:49 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] (h-cost): good pictures of extant garments... To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <54F514A4942@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 10:55:49 +0100 (BST) Status: RO Oh my! teddy, are there pictures of 17th c. garments? greedy look* Must have book, just have! Nicole --- Teddy wrote: > Hello folks, > > we just had a new book come in for cataloguing and it has some > lovely clear (full page colour) photographs of extant garments from > various periods starting with the Pourpoint of Charles de Blois and > the Pourpoint de Charles VI and going up through 18th century > (possibly 19th as well I've only had a brief look at it) > > It's in French, which I speak and read very little (practically none, in > fact) so I can't give much detail about the text content, but the > pictures are good. As far as I can make out, it's from an exhibition > about cotton and fashion held in a Paris museum last autumn > > Le Coton et la Mode: 1000 ans d'aventures > Musee Galliera, musee de la mode de la Ville de Paris. 10 > novembre - 11 mars 2001. ISBN: 287900490X > > I'm sure it will be of use to someone out there who can understand > the French > > > > Teddy > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 18 06:09:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA20432 for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 06:09:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5IA53C03725; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 04:05:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5IA52a10264; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 04:05:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5I9wUa08937 for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 03:58:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A4E93197021A; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 05:01:13 -0500 Message-ID: <013501c216ad$94036940$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] Sad News Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 05:50:28 -0400 Status: RO I received word last night that Jim Liles has passed away. Jim was known as a perky little man with a big heart for historic costume. He and his wife Dale were masters at the art of dyeing textiles. Several of us knew Jim from Costume Society of America. He was also a college professor at the University of Tennessee. We will miss his sweet grin. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 18 09:17:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA24738 for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 09:17:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5IDE3C10247; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 07:14:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5IDE1a25603; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 07:14:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.61]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5ID7Aa23623 for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 07:07:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 66-44-7-243.s2021.apx1.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com ([66.44.7.243] helo=oldwaylane.net) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #5) id 17KIhQ-0001vH-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 09:07:09 -0400 Message-ID: <3D0F31C3.1080602@oldwaylane.net> From: Judy Mitchell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:0.9.3) Gecko/20010801 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] viking necklace References: <20020617221912.87965.qmail@web10603.mail.yahoo.com> <009501c2168c$2feeb200$a4794ed5@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: judymitch@oldwaylane.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 09:12:35 -0400 Status: RO >>Help! I am trying to find out what Vikings strung their necklaces on - >> > leather, hemp cord, wool > thread or linen. I have found some information and pictures of finds from > some burials - Birka, I > think. However, none of may sources say what the necklaces were strung on. None of my sources, including visiting lots of museums and reading archeological reports, have indicated it either. As Mel said, I believe that any such string would not have survived - only the beads have been found in the graves. The suggestions you've made are definately all possible, the only addition I'd made from our experience is sinew. good luck! -Judy Mitchell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 18 10:11:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA25186 for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 10:11:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5IE73C13771; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 08:07:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5IE71a16050; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 08:07:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5IDwWa12686 for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 07:58:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA08493 for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 09:22:08 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] good pictures of extant garments... In-Reply-To: <54F514A4942@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 09:22:08 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Tue, 18 Jun 2002, Teddy wrote: > we just had a new book come in for cataloguing ... As far as I can > make out, it's from an exhibition about cotton and fashion held in a > Paris museum last autumn > > Le Coton et la Mode: 1000 ans d'aventures > Musee Galliera, musee de la mode de la Ville de Paris. 10 > novembre - 11 mars 2001. ISBN: 287900490X There's still a web page up about this exhibit. Find it at http://www.france.diplomatie.fr/actual/culture/coton.html I'm wondering if anyone (Heather?) knows of any published work about the pourpoint of Charles VI, which is labeled in this article as being from 1368-1422 (hmm, sounds like Charles' lifetime), of red silk stuffed with cotton, at the Musee des Beaux-Arts de Chartres. If the picture is any indication, it's at least in as good shape as the pourpoint of Charles de Blois. But it's impossible to know from this how much of that is restoration. I'd LOVE a cutting layout or measurements on this puppy. Teddy, is there more in the book about this? --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 18 10:41:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA25388 for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 10:41:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5IEb8C16601; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 08:37:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5IEb6a00596; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 08:37:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f254.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.129]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5IEWIa28191 for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 08:32:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 07:32:12 -0700 Received: from 24.200.48.35 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 14:32:12 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.200.48.35] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] (h-cost): good pictures of extant garments... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Jun 2002 14:32:12.0688 (UTC) FILETIME=[EF80F900:01C216D4] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 14:32:12 +0000 Status: RO >I'm sure it will be of use to someone out there who can understand >the French > >Teddy Hmm yes... if it is as interesting as you say it looks, I might consider trying to find it... depending on the price... Now I have a much too long list of interesting books to ask as bday and christmas gifts, it'll take years before I get all of them :-) _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 18 11:25:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA25598 for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 11:25:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5IFM2C21674; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 09:22:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5IFM1a24954; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 09:22:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.9]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5IFEga20604 for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 09:14:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [113.105.42.16] (ool-4353599f.dyn.optonline.net [67.83.89.159]) by mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 (built Feb 21 2002)) with ESMTP id <0GXW00JETQAV8O@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 11:13:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Linda Krecker-Schkred In-reply-to: <140.fd8e889.2a38d630@aol.com> X-Sender: rhianwen@mail.optonline.net To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <140.fd8e889.2a38d630@aol.com> Subject: [h-cost] That pourpoint of Charles Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 11:14:40 -0400 Status: RO I went to the site and it referred to the fabric being lampas. I have seen other extant garments that also refer to lampas silk. What exactly is it and is it findable? I've already checked my favorite silk stores with no luck. Linda Krecker-Schkred (mka Rhianwen o Enfus Disberod) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 18 11:31:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA25614 for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 11:31:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5IFR1C22163; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 09:27:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5IFR1a27876; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 09:27:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5IFIYa22925 for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 09:18:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KJ2Z5O1F1S018Q5N@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 16:21:42 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KJ2Z5LTMFW00IZOO@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 16:21:38 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 18 Jun 2002 16:15:29 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 18 Jun 2002 16:14:53 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.71) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 16:14:46 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] (h-cost): good pictures of extant garments... In-reply-to: <200206181442.g5IEgVa03407@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <5558F955BE8@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 16:14:46 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > Oh my! teddy, are there pictures of 17th c. garments? greedy look* > Must have book, just have! .... Sorry to raise your hopes, Nicole, it seems to skip 17th century garments entirely. It just had a couple of photos of 17th century fabrics. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 18 11:37:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA25629 for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 11:37:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5IFW7C22698; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 09:32:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5IFW5a01017; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 09:32:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5IFRZa28280 for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 09:27:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KJ2ZGXDN6800S9OV@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 16:30:46 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KJ2ZGVEL4W00M18C@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 16:30:43 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 18 Jun 2002 16:24:34 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 18 Jun 2002 16:23:43 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.71) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 16:23:38 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] good pictures of extant garments... In-reply-to: <200206181442.g5IEgVa03407@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <555B541785E@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 16:23:38 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > the pourpoint of Charles VI, which is labeled in this article as > being from 1368-1422 (hmm, sounds like Charles' lifetime), of red > silk stuffed with cotton, at the Musee des Beaux-Arts de Chartres. > If the picture is any indication, it's at least in as good shape as > the pourpoint of Charles de Blois. But it's impossible to know from > this how much of that is restoration. I'd LOVE a cutting layout or > measurements on this puppy. > > Teddy, is there more in the book about this? Just the clear, full-page in colour, version of the picture on the website. It looks to be in pretty good condition, has one missing button. I can't see any more detailed pictures or diagrams of it. If there are any written details they're not on the nearby pages (the two pictures of the pourpoints make up a double-page spread with just the captions saying what they are and are right near the front of the book so may not be near any text that actually refers to them, and I don't read French so would have to go through every word in order to spot a reference to either in the text) Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 18 12:39:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA26003 for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 12:39:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5IGa4C29515; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 10:36:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5IGa2a08461; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 10:36:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13304.mail.yahoo.com (web13304.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.40]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g5IGSua04151 for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 10:28:56 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020618162830.54289.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13304.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 17:28:30 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] (h-cost): good pictures of extant garments... To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <5558F955BE8@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 17:28:30 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Teddy wrote: > > .... Sorry to raise your > hopes, Nicole, it seems to skip 17th century garments entirely. It > just had a couple of photos of 17th century fabrics. Ohhh... *disappointed look* as usual. *sniffs* Thanks, Teddy, for looking, means I don't have to try with all means to get hold of them book. Cheers! Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 18 13:55:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA27574 for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 13:55:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5IHoEC07445; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 11:50:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5IHoBa21851; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 11:50:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (new-comet.pacifier.com [216.65.150.155]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5IHhMa18177 for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 11:43:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip50.125-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.125.50]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g5IHhJA09770 for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 10:43:20 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [h-cost] That pourpoint of Charles Message-ID: <3D0F0FA3.30194.2CE49FB8@localhost> Priority: normal References: <140.fd8e889.2a38d630@aol.com> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 10:46:59 -0700 Status: RO > I went to the site and it referred to the fabric being lampas. I have > seen other extant garments that also refer to lampas silk. What > exactly is it and is it findable? I've already checked my favorite > silk stores with no luck. Lampas is a weave type. The term was not used until after 1900, but the weaving has been since quite early in the silkweaving west. Definition: "figured textiles in which a pattern, composed of weft floats bound by a binding warp, is added to a ground fabric formed by a main warp and a main weft. the ground may be tabby, twill , satin, damask etc. The weft threads forming the pattern are normally pattern or brocading wefts; they float on the face as required by the pattern, and are bound by the ends of the binding warp in a binding ordinarily tabby or twill and which is supplementary to the ground weave." (Agnes Gaijer, _A History of Textile Art_, page 61). Most of the brocades are no longer woven in this way. However, there are some upholstery fabrics which are. Unfortunately, although they are woven in the same manner, they don't have the drape of the lampas silks from the middle ages and renaissance. (The ground is usually much too stiff, but it would wear better as upholstery fabric than the lighter, drapery original would.) Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 18 19:52:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA02748 for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 19:52:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5INmqC11658; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 17:48:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5INmfa07411; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 17:48:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web21510.mail.yahoo.com (web21510.mail.yahoo.com [66.163.169.59]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g5INhDa05407 for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 17:43:13 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020618234312.51861.qmail@web21510.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.245.40] by web21510.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 00:43:12 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?marcus=20findlay-arthur?= To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Lampas Silk Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 00:43:12 +0100 (BST) Status: RO Hi ya Rhi! Lampas Sillk is an Oriental flowered silk.It began to be used as a furnishing fabric well before the 1970's.Lampas Silk is woven on a jacquard loom and resembles brocade.The satin-like warp threads contrast with a corded ground. Hum locating the stuff.Well I should imagine that the real thing is going to be pricey.Try 'Surplus Silk' or 'Silk Surplus' in NYC,they used to have a tiny shop on E.57th Str. between Lexington Ave. and Second Ave.(Left hand side as you toddle off to the tram station.But I can't recall if they closed or not or just moved.) Next option is Scalamandra's (sp?) they do have a ritzy and expensive store in the same area but I again can't recall all the details - get an Interior design mag and check for an ad.They always have loads! Good luck and be sure to let me know if you locate it! Marcus. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 19 05:30:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA17710 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 05:30:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5J9R2C04749; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 03:27:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5J9Qia11758; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 03:26:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5J9Lsa10738 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 03:21:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KJ40ZXY1S000SKGF@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 10:25:08 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-cf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk ([158.94.199.2]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KJ40ZVV0L000G8YM@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 10:25:05 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-CF-S1/SpoolDir by mdx-cf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.48) ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 10:18:54 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-CF-S1 (Mercury 1.48); Wed, 19 Jun 2002 10:18:37 +0000 Received: from Linda19 (158.94.199.11) by mdx-cf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.48) with ESMTP; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 10:18:28 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] (h-cost): good pictures of extant garments... TIP! In-reply-to: <200206181805.g5II5ta01152@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <7C040DB0615@mdx-cf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 10:18:27 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > > .... Sorry to raise your > > hopes, Nicole, it seems to skip 17th century garments entirely. It > > just had a couple of photos of 17th century fabrics. > > Ohhh... *disappointed look* as usual. *sniffs* Thanks, Teddy, for > looking, means I don't have to try with all means to get hold of > them book. Cheers! Not much use in this instance but, how about this for a tip for those of you who have access to such services. Before spending out lots of money on books you don't know the content of, request a copy on Inter Library Loan from your friendly neighbourhood Librarian (in Nicole's case, hers happens to be a friend of mine who she's on first name terms with) that way you get to check out the details before you decide it's worth the money to buy a copy. Even if you have to pay for the ILL service - it's niot as much as paying for a copy of the book only to be disappointed by the content when you get it. Teddy (Librarian and cataloguer) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 19 06:36:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA17922 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 06:36:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5JAW6C06340; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 04:32:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5JAVwa27128; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 04:31:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from studorg.hiof.no (IDENT:cJClMNE+zEz63sNdaA+EHDYK7FbwP7Zm@studorg.hiof.no [158.36.33.137]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5JAPma25783 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 04:25:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (ingridgs@localhost) by studorg.hiof.no (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g5JAPjt12394 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 12:25:45 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ingrid_G=2E_Storr=F8?= To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <7C040DB0615@mdx-cf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] Women's headgear, medieval Norway? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 12:25:45 +0200 (CEST) Status: RO Hi, all! I've recently joined a reenactment group here in Norway that concentrates on the years of the reign of Haakon V Magnusson; 1299-1308. I'm figuring that wool T-tunics with underarm gussets and fairly high necklines are safe enough for clothing, but I'm not entirely certain where to look for sources for headgear. Does anyone know, or have any tips? I figured I'd go and have a look at the pages from the Maciejowski Bible that are printed in Old Testament Miniatures (I haven't looked at it closely before), but I'm not sure if there's actually much for women in there. Also, I suppose the Manesse Codex could be a tentative source - but does anyone know if there's anything more specific for Norway/Scandinavia out there for this period? Any help will be very much appreciated indeed. :) Ingrid _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 19 08:48:29 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA26885 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 08:48:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5JCijC10672; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 06:44:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5JCiga27289; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 06:44:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.62]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5JCeHa26228 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 06:40:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 66-44-13-10.s772.apx2.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com ([66.44.13.10] helo=oldwaylane.net) by smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #5) id 17Kekx-00065M-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 08:40:16 -0400 Message-ID: <3D107CF7.5070104@oldwaylane.net> From: Judy Mitchell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:0.9.3) Gecko/20010801 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Women's headgear, medieval Norway? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: judymitch@oldwaylane.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 08:45:43 -0400 Status: RO Ingrid G. Storr? wrote: > Hi, all! I've recently joined a reenactment group here in Norway that > concentrates on the years of the reign of Haakon V Magnusson; 1299-1308. anything more specific for > Norway/Scandinavia out there for this period? Any help will be very much > appreciated indeed. :) ooh, neat time period. I don't have a clue for the clothing, but can you post any sources you find? I'm kinda creating this "walk through time of Scandinavian clothes" for myself. I'd be fascinated with what you find (don't care if I can read the text, I'll puzzle out bits ;-) ) -Judy Mitchell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 19 09:10:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA26980 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 09:10:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5JD6iC11724; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 07:06:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5JD6ga03262; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 07:06:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from protactinium.btinternet.com (protactinium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.176]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5JD1ma02012 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 07:01:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host213-122-39-4.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.39.4] helo=dan) by protactinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 17Kf5m-0003sB-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 14:01:47 +0100 Message-ID: <005b01c21791$bda06f20$04277ad5@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [h-cost] Trip to NYC Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 13:37:13 +0100 Status: RO Hi everyone, Provided my daughter's new passport turns up in time we are New York City bound on Friday staying for 10 days. And yes, I did curse the twist of fate that made this a few days too late for Robin's presentation... I will be hitting the museums, and have the Cloisters as essential for the Tapestries, amongst other things, the Met for everything, the Brooklyn Museum of Art for textiles and Egypt, the Frick for Thomas More, and then there's all that modern stuff which I may be able to get out of seeing since we have to chase bits of it around because of the redevelopment of MOMA. My daughter Bella wants to see Washington, for the XFiles stuff, so I will be going to the National Gallery there. Any other suggestions, please? And then there's the shops; we are staying at the Pennsylvania Hotel which looked promising for the garment district; anyone's favourite fabric places? best wishes Stevie getting back to the ironing board... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 19 09:23:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27031 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 09:23:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5JDJcC12479; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 07:19:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5JDJTa07263; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 07:19:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5JDEka05592 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 07:14:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g5JDEiJJ013069 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 09:14:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: Costume List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] Boned 'stomacher' in Bueckelaer? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 09:14:44 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I'm looking at the Bueckelaer painting, 'Christ in the house of Mary and Martha': http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/html/b/beuckela/ The woman on the right appears to possibly have a boned stomacher under the lacing under her gown -- based on the vertical lines of the 'stomacher', and on the way it's pushing her bust up. Thoughts, folks? -- Mara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 19 09:47:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27197 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 09:47:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5JDhiC13916; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 07:43:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5JDhga14776; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 07:43:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from studorg.hiof.no (IDENT:gczKNGlbTLtcJSqPPviPrkJBzPVjhIHK@studorg.hiof.no [158.36.33.137]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5JDdia13542 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 07:39:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (ingridgs@localhost) by studorg.hiof.no (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g5JDdhM13849 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 15:39:43 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ingrid_G=2E_Storr=F8?= To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Women's headgear, medieval Norway? In-Reply-To: <3D107CF7.5070104@oldwaylane.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 15:39:42 +0200 (CEST) Status: RO On Wed, 19 Jun 2002, Judy Mitchell wrote: > Ingrid G. Storr? wrote: > > Hi, all! I've recently joined a reenactment group here in Norway that > > concentrates on the years of the reign of Haakon V Magnusson; 1299-1308. > anything more specific for > > Norway/Scandinavia out there for this period? Any help will be very much > > appreciated indeed. :) > > ooh, neat time period. I don't have a clue for the clothing, > but can you post any sources you find? Sure, will do! I must admit that my assumption that T-tunics will be fine is based not so much on actual sources, as a hunch based on other Northern European sources and extant male clothing from "around" the same time period. I'll ask around in the group if anyone actually has something definite to base women's clothing on. As far as I know, the written text "The King's Mirror" (Kongsspeilet/Konungs skuggsjĺ), a Norwegian source from around 1250 (tentatively), only dictates clothing and armour for men - but I may be wrong, as I've not read the whole thing myself. But I'll meet some of these people today; I'll ask them about what sources they have used! :) Ingrid _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 19 09:54:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27223 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 09:54:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5JDohC14395; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 07:50:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5JDoWa17052; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 07:50:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp4.ihug.co.nz (smtp4.ihug.co.nz [203.109.252.5]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5JDjja15489 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 07:45:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p27-tnt7.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.206.27] by smtp4.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1 (Debian)) id 17KfmJ-0002CP-00; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 01:45:44 +1200 Message-ID: <000701c21797$9a1eb740$1bceadcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Boned 'stomacher' in Bueckelaer? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 01:45:40 +1200 Status: RO > I'm looking at the Bueckelaer painting, 'Christ in the house of Mary and > Martha': > http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/html/b/beuckela/ > The woman on the right appears to possibly have a boned stomacher under > the lacing under her gown -- based on the vertical lines of the > 'stomacher', and on the way it's pushing her bust up. I'd definately agree. And notice how very thick it is too? Mind you what was the stuff used to stiffen? Reeds are what I'm thinking for very late 16th/early 17th C pieces.. I seem to recall reading that boning in terms of baleen wasn't until the latter 17thC.. but I've not really read much about that so I'm looking for more info:) Stomachers are mentioned in German texts. Then again they were already translated before they got to me so I'm not sure if they were refering to the plastons we are all familiar with;) That said there are a number of portraits of early 16thC german women with very flattened conical shaped bodices and the odd plastron that shows vertical lines much like in the above portrait. Just saying I'm agreeing the item appears stiffened, but I'm curious as to what would be common to put in those channels and just how far round under the outer layer it goes. I do like the top curve of it too. michaela http://recital.tripod.com/costume redesigned my site this week:) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 19 10:15:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA27324 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 10:15:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5JE9OC15587; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 08:09:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5JE6ga22767; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 08:06:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m2.jersey.juno.com (m2.jersey.juno.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5JE07a20357 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 08:00:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCh3ke1yUl7BpQv4fzYTulnjsfg8WaKKITA=="> Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.jersey.juno.com (jqueuemail) id G5NZS22V; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 09:59:39 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Boned 'stomacher' in Bueckelaer? Message-ID: <20020619.085657.-464945.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 6-9 From: seamstrix@juno.com Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 08:56:57 -0500 Status: RO I took a look at the dress and while a boned stomacher is certainly one interpretation, having worn the style on many occasions myself, I can say that another possibility is that the lines show wrinkles/folds caused by lacing the overgown tightly. This tight lacing would also give the effect of the raised bustline. If you look under her arm at about waist level there are some horizontal wrinkles that might indicate the snugness of the lacing. Karen ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 19 10:26:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA27371 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 10:26:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5JEMhC16532; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 08:22:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5JEKoa28330; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 08:20:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5JEE1a25545 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 08:14:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA17719 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 09:37:34 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Trip to NYC In-Reply-To: <005b01c21791$bda06f20$04277ad5@dan> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 09:37:34 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Wed, 19 Jun 2002, Stevie Gamble wrote: > Provided my daughter's new passport turns up in time we are New York > City bound on Friday staying for 10 days. And yes, I did curse the > twist of fate that made this a few days too late for Robin's > presentation... It's mutual! But you will have a good time just doing the town. > I will be hitting the museums, and have the Cloisters as essential for > the Tapestries, amongst other things, the Met for everything, the > Brooklyn Museum of Art for textiles and Egypt, the Frick for Thomas > More, and then there's all that modern stuff which I may be able to > get out of seeing since we have to chase bits of it around because of > the redevelopment of MOMA. If you like medieval manuscripts, there's the Pierpont Morgan Library. Call ahead to see about exhibits -- I think they rotate. (The one time I was there, I was mostly interested in the bookstore, I think, so I forget what I was actually able to see. It was a tourist trip, not a research trip.) > My daughter Bella wants to see Washington, for the XFiles stuff, so I > will be going to the National Gallery there. Um, you do know it's a bit of a trip from NYC to DC, right? If I were still living there, I would offer you a place to stay! DC would take you at least six months to do properly. For a start, though, consider these depending on your interests: -- Shakespeare: Folger Shakespeare Library, always has a good exhibit up in the display area, and a huge collection of Elizabethan and Shakespeare-related material for researchers. -- Books/manuscripts: Library of Congress, almost always has a good exhibit up for the tourists. Right next to the Folger. -- Textiles: Textile Museum. Mostly non-European stuff (Asian, African, etc.). -- Byzantine art: Dumbarton Oaks. Also has a brilliant pre-Columbian (e.g. Mayan) collection. Nice garden too, if you like that; admission to the garden is separate. -- Gothic architecture: Washington (National) Cathedral. Of course, you get the real thing all the time where you are, but the Cathedral was built on Gothic principles with an American twist. (Check out the American Indian motifs on the capitals of the columns in the North Cloister.) It's interesting to see a Gothic structure with the edges of the steps still sharp, not worn down by centuries of feet, and no 18th and 19th century decorative art plastered over it. Best bookstore in town for medieval. -- Good art in general: Phillips Collection and Corcoran Museum, two smaller museums with breathtaking collections. Not much medieval/Ren, though. -- Good museums in general: Anything on the Mall. There are 14 Smithsonian museums, so you can find Asian, African, American, modern, sculpture, popular culture, industrial arts, etc. A good guidebook in Washington is well worth what you spend on it, just in saved time and batched trips. You can spend forever getting from place to place, so group your visits by neighborhood. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 19 11:10:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA27493 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 11:10:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5JF7CC20710; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 09:07:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5JF6qq08714; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 09:06:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.10]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5JF19q05381 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 09:01:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [132.236.139.158] ([132.236.139.158]) by postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03641 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 10:39:46 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20020619.085657.-464945.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> To: h-costume@indra.com From: "M. Stewart" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Boned 'stomacher' in Bueckelaer? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 10:39:42 -0700 Status: RO I would agree with Karen's interpretation on this. Mari >I took a look at the dress and while a boned stomacher is certainly one >interpretation, having worn the style on many occasions myself, I can say >that another possibility is that the lines show wrinkles/folds caused by >lacing the overgown tightly. This tight lacing would also give the effect >of the raised bustline. If you look under her arm at about waist level >there are some horizontal wrinkles that might indicate the snugness of >the lacing. > > > >Karen Mari Stewart, Cornell University, Ithaca, NY _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 19 12:02:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27641 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 12:02:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5JFwjC25441; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 09:58:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5JFwhq06990; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 09:58:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com (tungsten.btinternet.com [194.73.73.81]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5JFrHq04044 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 09:53:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host213-122-17-26.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.17.26] helo=dan) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 17Khlj-0001uI-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 16:53:15 +0100 Message-ID: <000801c217a9$b1df2ba0$1a117ad5@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Trip to NYC MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 16:50:13 +0100 Status: RO Robin wrote: > > My daughter Bella wants to see Washington, for the XFiles stuff, so I > > will be going to the National Gallery there. > > Um, you do know it's a bit of a trip from NYC to DC, right? If I were > still living there, I would offer you a place to stay! Yes, I've bitten that bullet! We're staying at the Pennsylvania Hotel, opposite Penn Station, so at least we have no NY travel times; it's Amtrak all the way. It's a long day trip, particularly if you can't pay the fares on the business person's express, but I think it's worth it. Thank you for the thought; I still live in central London, so if you want to do an intensive zap of our sites you will be most welcome. > > DC would take you at least six months to do properly. For a start, though, > consider these depending on your interests: > > -- Shakespeare: Folger Shakespeare Library, always has a good exhibit up > in the display area, and a huge collection of Elizabethan and > Shakespeare-related material for researchers. Well, the Folger is somewhere my daughter will probably absolutely veto my visiting; in theory virtually all of its holdings are available at the Shakespeare Institute or the Birthplace Trust on microfilm. In reality, of course, there's acres of totally yummy stuff that I would happily spend years on if allowed anywhere near it. I might try smuggling my Institute ID card into my luggage, of course... And thank you for the other recommendations; any hints on good guide-books? It's extraordinary just how many bad guidebooks there are around! best wishes Stevie ------------------------------------ -- Books/manuscripts: Library of Congress, almost always has a good > exhibit up for the tourists. Right next to the Folger. > -- Textiles: Textile Museum. Mostly non-European stuff (Asian, African, > etc.). > -- Byzantine art: Dumbarton Oaks. Also has a brilliant pre-Columbian > (e.g. Mayan) collection. Nice garden too, if you like that; admission to > the garden is separate. > -- Gothic architecture: Washington (National) Cathedral. Of course, you > get the real thing all the time where you are, but the Cathedral was built > on Gothic principles with an American twist. (Check out the American > Indian motifs on the capitals of the columns in the North Cloister.) It's > interesting to see a Gothic structure with the edges of the steps still > sharp, not worn down by centuries of feet, and no 18th and 19th century > decorative art plastered over it. Best bookstore in town for medieval. > -- Good art in general: Phillips Collection and Corcoran Museum, two > smaller museums with breathtaking collections. Not much medieval/Ren, > though. > -- Good museums in general: Anything on the Mall. There are 14 > Smithsonian museums, so you can find Asian, African, American, modern, > sculpture, popular culture, industrial arts, etc. > > A good guidebook in Washington is well worth what you spend on it, just in > saved time and batched trips. You can spend forever getting from place to > place, so group your visits by neighborhood. > > --Robin > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 19 12:16:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27665 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 12:16:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5JGCUC26760; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 10:12:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5JGAfq13942; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 10:10:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5JG6aq11511 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 10:06:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA18720 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 11:30:16 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Trip to NYC In-Reply-To: <000801c217a9$b1df2ba0$1a117ad5@dan> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 11:30:16 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Wed, 19 Jun 2002, Stevie Gamble wrote: > Yes, I've bitten that bullet! We're staying at the Pennsylvania Hotel, > opposite Penn Station, so at least we have no NY travel times; it's > Amtrak all the way. It's a long day trip, particularly if you can't > pay the fares on the business person's express, but I think it's worth > it. Perhaps there's an h-cost person who would put you up overnight if there's more you want to see? Or find a cheap room off the Metro in Arlington or Rockville. Do it at the end of your NY trip so you don't have to keep paying on the NY hotel room. > Well, the Folger is somewhere my daughter will probably absolutely > veto my visiting... It's in the same neighborhood as the Library of Congress and Capitol Hill, so perhaps she'll find something of interest to keep her busy. I believe there's a Hard Rock Cafe nearby ;-) > And thank you for the other recommendations; any hints on good > guide-books? It's extraordinary just how many bad guidebooks there are > around! Fodor's is always safe. Maybe not the best for an in-depth trip, but certainly it'll cover what you need for a first touristing visit. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 19 12:19:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27671 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 12:19:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5JGFhC27072; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 10:15:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5JGFfq16760; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 10:15:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.9]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5JG9vq13515 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 10:09:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [113.105.42.16] (ool-4353599f.dyn.optonline.net [67.83.89.159]) by mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 (built Feb 21 2002)) with ESMTP id <0GXY009B0NGB59@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 12:07:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Linda Krecker-Schkred Subject: Re: [h-cost] Trip to NYC In-reply-to: <005b01c21791$bda06f20$04277ad5@dan> X-Sender: rhianwen@mail.optonline.net To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <005b01c21791$bda06f20$04277ad5@dan> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 12:08:21 -0400 Status: RO At 1:37 PM +0100 6/19/02, Stevie Gamble wrote: snip >Any other suggestions, please? >And then there's the shops; we are staying at the Pennsylvania Hotel >which looked promising for the garment district; anyone's favourite >fabric places? Check the Met Before you get there. There is a show on tapestries that is about to go down. Some of these have never ever been out so the colors are just as vibrant as when they were made some hundreds of years ago. You may have only a few days left. Bring your walking shoes and hit the entire garment district. You can purchase in any store that doesn't say wholesale. Check out NY Elegance something like that, I can't find my card) I think it's on either 38th or 39th. They have wools, silks, linens, linen blends, silk velvets, as examples. WM.N. Ginsburg for trim they are on 38th. And just walk around. Marcus mentioned the one on 57th St. I don't know any other area but he might. Have loads of fun! Linda K-S (Rhianwen) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 19 12:47:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27784 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 12:47:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5JGhpC29728; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 10:43:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5JGhnq04121; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 10:43:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5JGeHq02043 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 10:40:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g5JGeFJJ010149 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 12:40:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Boned 'stomacher' in Bueckelaer? In-Reply-To: <20020619.085657.-464945.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 12:40:15 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO That's certainly possible... I need to make a stomacher for my 18th c. gown, so maybe when I get it done I'll try using it with my 17th c. laced kirtle and take pics both with and without, to compare results. However, I doubt that the wrinkles caused just by lacing would be that regular. Usually I find that I've got one BIG wrinkle right in the middle, rather than multiple small ones... Cheers, Mara On Wed, 19 Jun 2002 seamstrix@juno.com wrote: > I took a look at the dress and while a boned stomacher is certainly one > interpretation, having worn the style on many occasions myself, I can say > that another possibility is that the lines show wrinkles/folds caused by > lacing the overgown tightly. This tight lacing would also give the effect > of the raised bustline. If you look under her arm at about waist level > there are some horizontal wrinkles that might indicate the snugness of > the lacing. > > > > Karen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 19 12:51:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27797 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 12:51:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5JGlrC00287; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 10:47:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5JGlqq06823; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 10:47:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5JGivq04818 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 10:44:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g5JGiuJJ010805 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 12:44:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Boned 'stomacher' in Bueckelaer? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 12:44:56 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Ok... want to tell us why, instead of just saying "me, too"? -- Mara On Wed, 19 Jun 2002, M. Stewart wrote: > I would agree with Karen's interpretation on this. > > Mari _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 19 12:51:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27803 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 12:51:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5JGlxC00313; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 10:47:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5JGlwq06932; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 10:47:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5JGhEq03816 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 10:43:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g5JGhDJJ010552 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 12:43:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Boned 'stomacher' in Bueckelaer? In-Reply-To: <000701c21797$9a1eb740$1bceadcb@michaela> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 12:43:13 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO On Thu, 20 Jun 2002, michaela wrote: > I'd definately agree. And notice how very thick it is too? Mind you what was > the stuff used to stiffen? Reeds are what I'm thinking for very late > 16th/early 17th C pieces.. I seem to recall reading that boning in terms of > baleen wasn't until the latter 17thC.. but I've not really read much about > that so I'm looking for more info:) I'd guess reeds, too... > Stomachers are mentioned in German texts. Then again they were already > translated before they got to me so I'm not sure if they were refering to > the plastons we are all familiar with;) > That said there are a number of portraits of early 16thC german women with > very flattened conical shaped bodices and the odd plastron that shows > vertical lines much like in the above portrait. Yep! And just looking through the Aertsen and Bueckelaer stuff online shows some women with a _definite_ bustline (i.e., no stiffening or stomacher), and some women who almost have to be wearing some kind of stiffened bodice because they _don't_ have a bustline, so I guess some women did it one way, some another. > Just saying I'm agreeing the item appears stiffened, but I'm curious as to > what would be common to put in those channels and just how far round under > the outer layer it goes. I do like the top curve of it too. Me, too! Cheers, Mara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 19 12:55:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27823 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 12:55:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5JGpmC00734; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 10:51:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5JGpgq09436; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 10:51:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from nycsmtp1out.rdc-nyc.rr.com (nycsmtp1out.rdc-nyc.rr.com [24.29.99.226]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5JGmgq07373 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 10:48:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from marthakelly (24-193-84-108.nyc.rr.com [24.193.84.108]) by nycsmtp1out.rdc-nyc.rr.com (8.12.1/Road Runner SMTP Server 1.0) with SMTP id g5JGmDs3025010 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 12:48:14 -0400 (EDT) From: "Martha Kelly" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Trip to NYC Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 12:49:06 -0300 Status: RO Some of the fabric (etc) stores the costume designers use: B&J Fabrics 263 W. 40th NY Elegant 222 West 40th Mood 250 West 39th 10th Floor (go up, it's worth it) Daytona Braid 251 West 39th Hyman-Hendler 67 West 38th (ribbon) M&J Trim 6th Ave between 38th and 37th Zohra 235 West 40th (beautiful fabrics from India) Ben Raymond 545 Broadway (miles of inexpensive lace - especially eyelette) Harry Zarin 318 Grand (upholstery/curtain fabrics) Tender Buttons 143 E. 62nd Looking for something in particular? I might be able to direct you. Martha _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 19 15:27:00 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28547 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 15:27:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5JJNBC14980; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 13:23:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5JJN8q16240; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 13:23:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d08.mx.aol.com (imo-d08.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.40]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5JJC2q05286 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 13:12:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 6.11a.12a21781 (4462) for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 15:11:52 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <11a.12a21781.2a423178@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Boned 'stomacher' in Bueckelaer? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_11a.12a21781.2a423178_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10568 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 15:11:52 EDT Status: RO --part1_11a.12a21781.2a423178_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/19/2002 12:49:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lindo@Radix.Net writes: > However, I doubt that the wrinkles caused just by lacing would be that > regular. I agree with this interp. The piece looks boned...stiffened in some way. Look at the top of this stomacher. It is thick and not wrinkled in any way. It is boned. How this could be interpreted as wrinkled is beyond me. --part1_11a.12a21781.2a423178_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/19/2002 12:49:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lindo@Radix.Net writes:


However, I doubt that the wrinkles caused just by lacing would be that
regular.  


I agree with this interp. The piece looks boned...stiffened in some way. Look at the top of this stomacher. It is thick and not wrinkled in any way. It is boned. How this could be interpreted as wrinkled is beyond me. --part1_11a.12a21781.2a423178_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 19 15:34:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28621 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 15:34:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5JJU5C17410; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 13:30:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5JJU4q20295; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 13:30:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5JJOGq16935 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 13:24:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.35.247]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GXY00J62WKF8V@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 12:24:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Women's headgear, medieval Norway? In-reply-to: X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020619121754.00c79ca0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <7C040DB0615@mdx-cf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 12:19:49 -0700 Status: RO >Hi, all! I've recently joined a reenactment group here in Norway that >concentrates on the years of the reign of Haakon V Magnusson; 1299-1308. >I'm figuring that wool T-tunics with underarm gussets and fairly high >necklines are safe enough for clothing, but I'm not entirely certain >where to look for sources for headgear. Does anyone know, or have any >tips? I figured I'd go and have a look at the pages from the Maciejowski >Bible that are printed in Old Testament Miniatures (I haven't looked at >it closely before), but I'm not sure if there's actually much for women >in there. Also, I suppose the Manesse Codex could be a tentative source >- but does anyone know if there's anything more specific for >Norway/Scandinavia out there for this period? Any help will be very much >appreciated indeed. :) At the risk of being thought rude, you could always ask the other women members where they got their headgear ideas. They have been doing this for longer than you have, and, presumably, do it well enough for the group standards. If your headgear looks like theirs, they can't complain it isn't right. And it will give them a chance to be helpful, which some people like to be. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 19 15:39:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28672 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 15:39:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5JJZmC20280; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 13:35:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5JJZlq23530; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 13:35:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5JJOHq16942 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 13:24:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.35.247]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GXY00J62WKF8V@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 12:24:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Boned 'stomacher' in Bueckelaer? In-reply-to: X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020619122103.00c9f220@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 12:21:35 -0700 Status: RO >The woman on the right appears to possibly have a boned stomacher under >the lacing under her gown -- based on the vertical lines of the >'stomacher', and on the way it's pushing her bust up. You may just be seeing the front of her corset. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 19 15:51:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28880 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 15:51:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5JJlOC22209; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 13:47:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5JJlNq29906; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 13:47:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f224.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.224]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5JJcbq25111 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 13:38:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 12:38:32 -0700 Received: from 207.137.181.62 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 19:38:31 GMT X-Originating-IP: [207.137.181.62] From: "Maggie Secara" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Boned 'stomacher' in Bueckelaer? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Jun 2002 19:38:32.0175 (UTC) FILETIME=[E4F1DFF0:01C217C8] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 12:38:31 -0700 Status: RO By golly, it sure looks like it! Now I wonder how it gets there. Is it a corset, or part of an undergown? Neat pic, Mara. Thanks! MaggiRos >From: Kevin & Mara Riley >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: Costume List >Subject: [h-cost] Boned 'stomacher' in Bueckelaer? >Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 09:14:44 -0400 (EDT) > >I'm looking at the Bueckelaer painting, 'Christ in the house of Mary and >Martha': >http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/html/b/beuckela/ > >The woman on the right appears to possibly have a boned stomacher under >the lacing under her gown -- based on the vertical lines of the >'stomacher', and on the way it's pushing her bust up. > >Thoughts, folks? > >-- Mara > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 19 16:08:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA29089 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 16:08:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5JK4vC23901; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 14:04:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5JK4tq10165; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 14:04:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5JJnlq01633 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 13:49:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g5JJnkJJ005465 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 15:49:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Boned 'stomacher' in Bueckelaer? In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20020619122103.00c9f220@mail.frys.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 15:49:45 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO On Wed, 19 Jun 2002, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > You may just be seeing the front of her corset. > > > Kayta That's certainly possible! Will have to try it at home both ways to see what happens. - Mara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 19 16:35:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA29194 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 16:35:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5JKVSC26255; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 14:31:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5JKVQq25575; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 14:31:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m24.jersey.juno.com (m24.jersey.juno.com [64.136.22.87]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5JKAmq13545 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 14:10:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"6+EQmPyi7QIwbF+RNYxk3/mwMQWywlA7ymF1dlFnWuDOFrTHBixFJA=="> Received: (from ysabiau@juno.com) by m24.jersey.juno.com (jqueuemail) id G5PNYQ87; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 16:09:46 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Boned 'stomacher' in Bueckelaer? Message-ID: <20020619.161042.-808865.0.ysabiau@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-9,12-13 From: Christine Wright Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 16:10:41 -0400 Status: RO On Wed, 19 Jun 2002 12:38:31 -0700 "Maggie Secara" writes: > > By golly, it sure looks like it! Now I wonder how it gets there. Is > it a > corset, or part of an undergown? Neat pic, Mara. Thanks! > > MaggiRos It looks like it's a separate piece, and it definitely looks like it's got boning in it - if the stomacher didn't have boning, it would wrinkle a bit horizontally where the lacing crosses it. Ysabiau ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 19 17:24:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA29697 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 17:24:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5JLKQC00799; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 15:20:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5JLKMq23156; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 15:20:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (new-asteroid.pacifier.com [216.65.150.154]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5JKhdq02626 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 14:43:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip118.125-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.125.118]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g5JKhZc00106 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 13:43:35 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Boned 'stomacher' in Bueckelaer? Message-ID: <3D108B1B.5923.32AF2757@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <000701c21797$9a1eb740$1bceadcb@michaela> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 13:46:03 -0700 Status: RO > I'd definately agree. And notice how very thick it is too? Mind you > what was the stuff used to stiffen? Reeds are what I'm thinking for > very late 16th/early 17th C pieces.. I seem to recall reading that > boning in terms of baleen wasn't until the latter 17thC.. but I've not > really read much about that so I'm looking for more info:) Baleen whalebone was known in England as early as the 12th Century. It starts showing up regularly in bills starting in about 1564, with increasing frequency especially after 1580. Bents (bundles of hollow sea reeds) were popular prior to that (until the some time in the 18th C), but horn, ivory, wood, cords, iron bars (ugh) and other things were used as well. They could also be stiffened with layers of canvas or pasted linen (similar to buckram). For further reference see Janet Arnold's _Queen Elizabeth Unlock'd_ , JA's _Patterns of Fashion 1560-1620_, and Norah Waugh's _Corsets and Crinolines_. Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 19 18:56:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA30181 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 18:56:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5JMr5C08684; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 16:53:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5JMr1q12408; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 16:53:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hookworm.frognet.net (hookworm.frognet.net [204.192.96.22]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g5JMqmq12278 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 16:52:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 4049 invoked from network); 19 Jun 2002 22:52:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO khephera.frognet.net) (65.221.79.42) by mail.frognet.net with SMTP; 19 Jun 2002 22:52:23 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020619182307.01da6cb0@mail.frognet.net> X-Sender: judi@mail.frognet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Judith Taylor Subject: Re: [h-cost] Boned 'stomacher' in Bueckelaer? In-Reply-To: <11a.12a21781.2a423178@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 18:51:22 -0400 Status: RO Looking closely at this picture, I would say that the stomacher was wooden....and here's why I say this:

1) The rest of her outfit. This woman is not an upper class 'gentlewoman'. She is either middle class or a servant. What we see her wearing is good sturdy clothing that can stand up to the tasks she has to do...in this case, it appears that she is procurring meat for dinner.

2) A bone stomacher would not generally be worn during the day. In many cases, a bone stomacher is part of 'fancy dress'....not what I would wear to the market on butchering day.

3) The cost for bone to use to stiffen a stomacher (or corset) would have been quite expensive. Stomachers were generally a single piece...much like what we call a busk. To create a stomacher from cloth and take the time to stiffen it with individual boning would not give the desired effect. It would have to be connected to more material that fastened around the body. Stomachers (or busks) could be 'inserted' at the front of a gown using the lacing from the bodice to keep it in place.

4) The time of the painting. This is a 16th century painting depicting the working people of the time. This was probably painted while Phillip II still reigned as emperor and prior to, or just about the time when Phillip II was quarrelling with William of Orange, supervisor over Holland, Zealand and Utrecht.

There are some examples of wooden stomackers, often made of oak or ash (IIRC).

To my eye, the 'wrinkles' that you are seeing may be the artist's interpretation of wood grain. Which makes another point....bone, unless carved (and more often than not they were very decoratively carved) does not show/have a 'grain.'

It is highly possible that this young working woman is wearing a full, under-bust corset...but due to the artist's interpretation and depiction, we can only guess that such may be the case.

Judith
(Finally putting that Art History minor to use. ;)

AlbertCat@aol.com put into words:
In a message dated 6/19/2002 12:49:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lindo@Radix.Net writes:


However, I doubt that the wrinkles caused just by lacing would be that
regular. 


I agree with this interp. The piece looks boned...stiffened in some way. Look at the top of this stomacher. It is thick and not wrinkled in any way. It is boned. How this could be interpreted as wrinkled is beyond me.

"At the center of the universe is a loving heart that continues to beat and that wants the best for every person."
                   -Fred "Mister" Rodgers _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 19 20:33:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA30431 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 20:33:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5K0U4C14469; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 18:30:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5K0U1q17925; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 18:30:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web14002.mail.yahoo.com (web14002.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.93]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g5K0T6q17638 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 18:29:06 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020620002905.65325.qmail@web14002.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.175.88.95] by web14002.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 17:29:05 PDT From: Cin Subject: Re: [h-cost] Issogne Fresco/costumes book To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <3D0E9D04.9030105@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 17:29:05 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO > "Costumi A Issogne" > Whether the layouts or period or not, at least the pics are of fresco's that > appear to be > medieval time period. (not my thing... so don't know for sure) Oh, they're real and in fabulous shape. When I was there, the only way to take detail pics of all 6 was to buy the book. The postcards mostly had the interior frescos. There's 3 stories of near life-sized people and their famous quotations. Wonderful, but more "fantasy" oriented in that figures depicted saints, philosphers and marytrs. The 6 exterior frescos are, as I recall, the only 14th Italian frescos of "everyday" people in "everyday" clothes in their "everyday" life. ===== --cin Cynthia hysteria95126@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 19 22:01:16 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA30654 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 22:01:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5K1t3C18085; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 19:55:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5K1t0q11648; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 19:55:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02.attbi.com [204.127.202.62]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5K1sHq11422 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 19:54:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from WERNTO ([24.130.252.190]) by sccrmhc02.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020620015412.OLVI1547.sccrmhc02.attbi.com@WERNTO> for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 01:54:12 +0000 Message-ID: <004b01c217fd$601949f0$befc8218@WERNTO> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Trip to NYC MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 18:54:12 -0700 Status: RO Be sure to check out the costume museum at the Fashion Institute of Technology in Manhattan. Other costume collections are the Met (obviously) and the Brooklyn Museum (check ahead of time to see if anything's on view). - Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 19 22:20:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA30777 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 22:20:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5K2GgC19134; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 20:16:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5K2Gfq17983; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 20:16:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtpout.mac.com (smtpout.mac.com [204.179.120.88]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5K2Bgq16507 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 20:11:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp-relay02-en1.mac.com (smtp-relay02-en1 [10.13.10.225]) by smtpout.mac.com (8.12.1/8.10.2/1.0) with ESMTP id g5K2BfO3014487 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 19:11:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp01.mac.com (asmtp01-qfe3 [10.13.10.65]) by smtp-relay02-en1.mac.com (8.12.1/8.12.1/1.0) with ESMTP id g5K2BZKs011251 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 19:11:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [128.95.177.85] ([128.95.177.85]) by asmtp01.mac.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id GXZFFA00.S40 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 19:11:34 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Trip to NYC From: Agnes G To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 19:11:49 -0700 Status: RO To this nice list I would like to add: Paron Fabrics 206 West 40th Street, (7th Ave) New York, New York 10018 Phone 212 768 3266 Fax 212.768.3260 Hours: Mon-Sat 9:00AM-5:45PM Thursday: 9.00AM-7PM Sunday: Closed They have a really nice selection of wools and silks, mostly designer ends. Not particularly cheap but exquisite - and much cheaper than the same items in Seattle. I was waited on for hours by a salesman named Gus, after going over almost every bolt of fabric on the street level he brought me downstairs to the warehouse! What choices. I bough way too much stuff, of course, but it is all the best and at really decent prices, I found that the prices kept dropping as my pile kept growing. If you are a teacher, student or anything in the fashion industry, let Gus know and I think the prices drop for that alone. Good luck in New York, it's a wonderful place (not that London isn't, too) > From: "Martha Kelly" > Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com > Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 12:49:06 -0300 > To: > Subject: RE: [h-cost] Trip to NYC > > Some of the fabric (etc) stores the costume designers use: > B&J Fabrics 263 W. 40th > NY Elegant 222 West 40th > Mood 250 West 39th 10th Floor (go up, it's worth it) > Daytona Braid 251 West 39th > Hyman-Hendler 67 West 38th (ribbon) > M&J Trim 6th Ave between 38th and 37th > Zohra 235 West 40th (beautiful fabrics from India) > Ben Raymond 545 Broadway (miles of inexpensive lace - especially eyelette) > Harry Zarin 318 Grand (upholstery/curtain fabrics) > Tender Buttons 143 E. 62nd > > Looking for something in particular? I might be able to direct you. > > Martha > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 19 22:35:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA30818 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 22:35:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5K2W2C19810; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 20:32:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5K2W1q22354; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 20:32:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f238.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.238]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5K2Tuq21675 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 20:29:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 19:29:50 -0700 Received: from 24.55.6.126 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 02:29:50 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.55.6.126] From: "Maggie Secara" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Boned 'stomacher' in Bueckelaer? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_3886_17cc_32f2" Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Jun 2002 02:29:50.0666 (UTC) FILETIME=[5A78C2A0:01C21802] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 19:29:50 -0700 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_3886_17cc_32f2 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed But boning (of whatever kind)is flexible, which wood is not. A working woman needs, it seems to me (having spent the day doing real work while wearing such clothes) more flex than a whole unarticulated stomacher would give. These look like separate boning channels to me, not like a solid piece of anything, nor like wrinkles. They do not look like an attempt at depicting wood grain. MaggiRos >From: Judith Taylor >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Boned 'stomacher' in Bueckelaer? >Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 18:51:22 -0400 > _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------=_NextPart_000_3886_17cc_32f2 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Received: from hotmail.com ([65.54.237.35]) by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4905); Wed, 19 Jun 2002 15:53:29 -0700 Received: from server.indra.com ([204.144.142.2]) by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4905); Wed, 19 Jun 2002 15:53:15 -0700 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5JMrVC08703; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 16:53:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5JMrIq12538; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 16:53:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hookworm.frognet.net (hookworm.frognet.net [204.192.96.22]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g5JMqmq12278 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 16:52:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 4049 invoked from network); 19 Jun 2002 22:52:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO khephera.frognet.net) (65.221.79.42) by mail.frognet.net with SMTP; 19 Jun 2002 22:52:23 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020619182307.01da6cb0@mail.frognet.net> X-Sender: judi@mail.frognet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Judith Taylor Subject: Re: [h-cost] Boned 'stomacher' in Bueckelaer? In-Reply-To: <11a.12a21781.2a423178@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 18:51:22 -0400 Return-Path: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Jun 2002 22:53:15.0179 (UTC) FILETIME=[188ECFB0:01C217E4] Looking closely at this picture, I would say that the stomacher was wooden....and here's why I say this:

1) The rest of her outfit. This woman is not an upper class 'gentlewoman'. She is either middle class or a servant. What we see her wearing is good sturdy clothing that can stand up to the tasks she has to do...in this case, it appears that she is procurring meat for dinner.

2) A bone stomacher would not generally be worn during the day. In many cases, a bone stomacher is part of 'fancy dress'....not what I would wear to the market on butchering day.

3) The cost for bone to use to stiffen a stomacher (or corset) would have been quite expensive. Stomachers were generally a single piece...much like what we call a busk. To create a stomacher from cloth and take the time to stiffen it with individual boning would not give the desired effect. It would have to be connected to more material that fastened around the body. Stomachers (or busks) could be 'inserted' at the front of a gown using the lacing from the bodice to keep it in place.

4) The time of the painting. This is a 16th century painting depicting the working people of the time. This was probably painted while Phillip II still reigned as emperor and prior to, or just about the time when Phillip II was quarrelling with William of Orange, supervisor over Holland, Zealand and Utrecht.

There are some examples of wooden stomackers, often made of oak or ash (IIRC).

To my eye, the 'wrinkles' that you are seeing may be the artist's interpretation of wood grain. Which makes another point....bone, unless carved (and more often than not they were very decoratively carved) does not show/have a 'grain.'

It is highly possible that this young working woman is wearing a full, under-bust corset...but due to the artist's interpretation and depiction, we can only guess that such may be the case.

Judith
(Finally putting that Art History minor to use. ;)

AlbertCat@aol.com put into words:

In a message dated 6/19/2002 12:49:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lindo@Radix.Net writes:


However, I doubt that the wrinkles caused just by lacing would be that
regular. 


I agree with this interp. The piece looks boned...stiffened in some way. Look at the top of this stomacher. It is thick and not wrinkled in any way. It is boned. How this could be interpreted as wrinkled is beyond me.

"At the center of the universe is a loving heart that continues to beat and that wants the best for every person."
                   -Fred "Mister" Rodgers _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ------=_NextPart_000_3886_17cc_32f2-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 19 22:44:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA30839 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 22:44:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5K2f2C20179; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 20:41:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5K2f0q24889; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 20:41:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5K2cMq24180 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 20:38:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dandy.net (pvil2007.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.237.7]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA16517 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 22:38:19 -0400 Message-ID: <3D113F05.FDB227BE@dandy.net> From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Women's headgear, medieval Norway? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 22:33:41 -0400 Status: RO Hi, Ingrid. I agree with Katya, your group will probably have standards which they will want you to follow, but if you are doing research yourself to look at other options, there are other sources. First, who on the Continent, if at all, was Norway most closely allied with? This might give clues as to styles. You can also look to church sculpture and paintings. Probably not of use to Norwegians (more Swedes, I suppose), but I have a book called "Art Treasures of Medieval Finland". It catalogs paintings and sculpture from assorted parish churches. The earliest stuff from there was in the mid-Twelfth Cent., when Finland was being Christianized. They mention the Swedish influence, and the influence of the Hanseatic traders, and the cities of Danzig and Lubeck. Perhaps some similar books have been published on Norwegian churches and their art that might shed light on your area of study. If I come across anything else, I'll pass it along. Mike T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 19 22:59:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA30872 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 22:59:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5K2u1C20810; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 20:56:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5K2u0q29100; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 20:56:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5K2rEq28418 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 20:53:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup-209.246.110.181.dial1.newyork1.level3.net ([209.246.110.181] helo=earthlink.net) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17Ks4P-00027e-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 19:53:13 -0700 Message-ID: <3D1143A9.2010200@earthlink.net> From: A F Murphy User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011128 Netscape6/6.2.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Trip to NYC References: <005b01c21791$bda06f20$04277ad5@dan> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 22:53:29 -0400 Status: RO Welcome to New York! I'm afraid the tapestry show is closing - may have closed today. (Kicking self... I thought I had another week, and didn't get to it!) The Cloisters is always wonderful, you have a good list of the museums... In case you haven't been told - get an unlimited ride Metro card. $17 for 7 days, or $4 for one, and you can go everywhere, all buses and subways. Martha gave you a great list of garment center stores. I like Mood, and you do have to go upstairs to see it. Otherwise, I walk down the street, looking in windows to see what catches my eye! Do consider seeing a show. Broadway, of course, but there are also many Off Broadway (and OffOff Broadway) shows that are interesting and good. The New Yorker, New York, and Time Out New York magazines have information on what is running, who is playing, what is in museums and dates of exhibitions, such like useful information. If I can answer any specific questions, too, or give directions, I'd be glad to. It's a wonderful city. I'm afraid, though, that I suffer the classic New Yorker's problem - I'm never sure what people will want to see, because I tend to take it all for granted! So I'm not good at suggestions. Anne Stevie Gamble wrote: >Hi everyone, >Provided my daughter's new passport turns up in time we are New York >City bound on Friday staying for 10 days. And yes, I did curse the >twist of fate that made this a few days too late for Robin's >presentation... >I will be hitting the museums, and have the Cloisters as essential for >the Tapestries, amongst other things, the Met for everything, the >Brooklyn Museum of Art for textiles and Egypt, the Frick for Thomas >More, and then there's all that modern stuff which I may be able to >get out of seeing since we have to chase bits of it around because of >the redevelopment of MOMA. >My daughter Bella wants to see Washington, for the XFiles stuff, so I >will be going to the National Gallery there. >Any other suggestions, please? >And then there's the shops; we are staying at the Pennsylvania Hotel >which looked promising for the garment district; anyone's favourite >fabric places? >best wishes >Stevie >getting back to the ironing board... > >_______________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 19 23:02:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA30892 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 23:02:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5K2wtC20983; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 20:58:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5K2wsq29960; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 20:58:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5K2tmq29020 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 20:55:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup-209.246.110.181.dial1.newyork1.level3.net ([209.246.110.181] helo=earthlink.net) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17Ks6s-0005MU-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 19:55:47 -0700 Message-ID: <3D114443.6060902@earthlink.net> From: A F Murphy User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011128 Netscape6/6.2.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Scandinavian clothing, was Women's headgear, medieval Norway? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 22:56:03 -0400 Status: RO Now, this is good timing! I sat down to ask a question, and found this... My question is about Scandinavia about 100 years later. 1400 or so. I'm starting to be curious about the reign of Margrethe, and would like to look into clothing worn then. I've looked at the Golden Gown (thank you, Bjarne and Cynthia!) but I'm trying to find other sources. No handy dandy List Of Danish/Norwegian/Swedish Painters from that period, that I've seen, at least. So, can anyone tell me... What visual sources do we have from that place and period? Where might I be able to find them? I have a Danish-English dictionary here someplace, and might be able to puzzle out a few captions, but that's about the limit of my translating ability... but I can always look at pictures. There must have been painting, sculpture, brass... something! Is there a book anyone would particularly recommend, in English (So, I'm picky...) about history or culture or anything of the period? I'm interested in the whole culture, not just costume. It is a fascinating time, and I'd like to read about all three nations. Any idea what people were wearing? Any people, from Margrethe herself to the farm hands. I'm probably most interested in the merchants in the cities - the little I have seen so far suggests there was a lot of trade. It may be time for me to learn about the Hanseatic League... I'm just beginning, so please tell me if there is an obvious question I haven't asked! Anne Ingrid G. Storrř wrote: >Hi, all! I've recently joined a reenactment group here in Norway that >concentrates on the years of the reign of Haakon V Magnusson; 1299-1308. >I'm figuring that wool T-tunics with underarm gussets and fairly high >necklines are safe enough for clothing, but I'm not entirely certain >where to look for sources for headgear. Does anyone know, or have any >tips? I figured I'd go and have a look at the pages from the Maciejowski >Bible that are printed in Old Testament Miniatures (I haven't looked at >it closely before), but I'm not sure if there's actually much for women >in there. Also, I suppose the Manesse Codex could be a tentative source >- but does anyone know if there's anything more specific for >Norway/Scandinavia out there for this period? Any help will be very much >appreciated indeed. :) > >Ingrid > >_______________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 19 23:14:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA30920 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 23:14:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5K3ARC21511; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 21:10:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5K3ANq03281; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 21:10:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5K33Zq01434 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 21:03:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup-209.246.110.181.dial1.newyork1.level3.net ([209.246.110.181] helo=earthlink.net) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17KsEP-0005UK-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 20:03:33 -0700 Message-ID: <3D114615.7050400@earthlink.net> From: A F Murphy User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011128 Netscape6/6.2.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Robin Netherton at Costume Collegium Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 23:03:49 -0400 Status: RO My, I'm talkative tonight! I've had a busy period, am finally catching up on email, and finally have a chance to tell you, very briefly, about Robin's presentations at the SCA Costume Collegium in New Jersey last Saturday. It was fascinating (of course!) She made the opening remarks for the entire collegium, then gave 4 hours of lecture and slide shows. The first two hours were sort of run together - the development and her theory of the design of the Gothic Fitted Gown, and then a discussion of the Greenland (however many gored) Gown. I've been following the discussion of the gothic gown, and it was good to see so many of the pictures on which the ideas are based. The third class was about the sideless surcote, both general construction, and who did (or did not) wear it, and the fourth was the development of the V-necked gown of the late 14th century. She had many slides, some familiar, many not, to support and illustrate her points, and the actual garments she had made so that we could see the cut. None of this was a hands-on demonstration of construction, but a presentation of history and theory. There was a huge amount of information to digest. I think this will be simmering in my mind for a long time! There were many other classes, which I did not get to, but some of which I am promised notes for, and some of which I had already heard. Some were overviews and histories of other garments, from Tudor dresses to gamurras to cassocks, some were basic patterning for beginners. The other one that looked most interesting to me was Care and Feeding of Textiles in the 16th Century, by Carolyn Priest-Dorman (SCA name Thora Sharptooth). This, I understand, was about cleaning. care and storage of textiles in the period, from what is known from contemporary texts, and including some textile chemistry. I'm looking forward to getting that information. This weekend I'll be seeing some of the other people who attended, and it will be interesting to discuss it and see what different people took away from it. I have promised to, in turn, share my notes with people who were attending, or teaching, other classes, so we will have a lot to talk about. Of course, it was also fascinating, now that I have met Robin, to open my mail and read about dreams of her teaching barn building and dancing... The closest she came to dancing was jumping up and down in the fitted gown to prove that nothing shifts! One is left, though, with the feeling that, if she wanted to build a barn, she would find a way... moreover, it would be the way the original barn builders probably originally built, if you look at the materials available and the pictures and what we know about the uses of barns... ;-) Anne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 19 23:58:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA31013 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 23:58:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5K3t5C23846; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 21:55:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5K3t3q15759; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 21:55:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5K3cpq11563 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 21:38:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dandy.net (pvil2234.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.237.234]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA25826 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 23:38:48 -0400 Message-ID: <3D114D32.C88C5C59@dandy.net> From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] viking necklace References: <20020617221912.87965.qmail@web10603.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 23:34:11 -0400 Status: RO Hi, All of these things sound right, although I haven't had good luck with wool. It tends to separate if it is just twined, but it works better if it is lucetted, braided or otherwise supported. I think Judy has a point too about sinew. Leather, even if top grain, tends to become fragile as moisture and age break it down. Sinew or gut is far stronger. I have some real gut that I preserved after restringing an antique tennis racquet (it was in pieces, no use to the raquet, but fine for cord, instrument strings, etc.), and you can get new deer sinew from your friendly neighborhood buckskinning reenactors or traditional archery supplies (find Primitive Archer magazine for a list). There is an example of an existing cord (unfortunately 1350-1400 AD) through some paternoster beads in the collection of the Museum of London (#1489 in the Dress Accessories book)) that is tubular tablet-woven silk braid. The material and techniques were known at the time, but better scholars of this period than I are on this list, that can tell you whether or not this was either possible or probable for your area of interest. I would conjecture that the greater the value of the items being strung, the better the quality of the cord. Good Luck in your search, Mike T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jun 20 02:27:14 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA26580 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 02:27:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5K6NPC29504; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 00:23:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5K6NNq24016; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 00:23:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5K63Kq18864 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 00:03:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA24239 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 01:26:59 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Robin Netherton at Costume Collegium In-Reply-To: <3D114615.7050400@earthlink.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 01:26:59 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Wed, 19 Jun 2002, A F Murphy wrote: > I've had a busy period, am finally catching up on email, and finally > have a chance to tell you, very briefly, about Robin's presentations > at the SCA Costume Collegium in New Jersey last Saturday. (Thanks, Anne, the check is in the mail.) ;-) What Anne didn't tell you was that I would have been absolutely useless and lost without her! She had the lucky (?) job of being my on-site assistant, which meant she ran and fetched and found and fixed and handled the light switches -- no small task because I keep going back and forth between slides and live demo, and that meant Anne had to keep going back and forth between the main room and the side room where the switches were. I had a ball. It was a great crowd and I came away with some new ideas to percolate myself. I was tempted to skip my own classes to hear some of the others, but I wasn't allowed to do that ;-) --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jun 20 05:32:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA27060 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 05:32:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5K9SWC05053; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 03:28:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5K9STq03562; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 03:28:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from studorg.hiof.no (IDENT:5hkZOh7fb8Hc546WU7kemnyWQwaw7Vj3@studorg.hiof.no [158.36.33.137]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5K99Zq00739 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 03:09:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (ingridgs@localhost) by studorg.hiof.no (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g5K99Xf22331 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 11:09:33 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ingrid_G=2E_Storr=F8?= To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Women's headgear, medieval Norway? In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20020619121754.00c79ca0@mail.frys.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 11:09:33 +0200 (CEST) Status: RO On Wed, 19 Jun 2002, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > >Hi, all! I've recently joined a reenactment group here in Norway that > >concentrates on the years of the reign of Haakon V Magnusson; 1299-1308. > >I'm figuring that wool T-tunics with underarm gussets and fairly high > >necklines are safe enough for clothing, but I'm not entirely certain > >where to look for sources for headgear. Does anyone know, or have any > >tips? > > At the risk of being thought rude, you could always ask the other women > members where they got their headgear ideas. They have been doing this for > longer than you have, and, presumably, do it well enough for the group > standards. If your headgear looks like theirs, they can't complain it > isn't right. And it will give them a chance to be helpful, which some > people like to be. Of course I'll ask the other women in the group; I've asked a couple already. :) But part of my problem is that until fairly recently, this has been mainly a live steel fighting group, with major focus on armour and weapons - for men. From what I've gathered, research into women's clothing hasn't been as extensive within the group. So I thought I'd ask this knowledgable list if anyone had any ideas - it can't hurt, right? :) Also, I'm not only concerned with meeting group standards (however high they may be) - I want to be as authentic as at all possible based on the available evidence. And considering the number of people on this list, I figured it just might be possible that someone would have info that would be new to the group as well. Well, I hoped, at least. :) Ingrid _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jun 20 08:11:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA28264 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 08:11:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5KC7mC09447; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 06:07:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5KC7hq07760; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 06:07:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from nycsmtp2out.rdc-nyc.rr.com (nycsmtp2out.rdc-nyc.rr.com [24.29.99.227]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5KBaBq01244 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 05:36:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from marthakelly (24-193-84-108.nyc.rr.com [24.193.84.108]) by nycsmtp2out.rdc-nyc.rr.com (8.12.1/Road Runner SMTP Server 1.0) with SMTP id g5KBZKYV011359 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 07:35:20 -0400 (EDT) From: "Martha Kelly" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Trip to NYC - one more museum Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-reply-to: <3D1143A9.2010200@earthlink.net> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 07:35:11 -0300 Status: RO Did anybody mention the Museum of American Folk Art? It's our newest museum and the building alone is worth experiencing. It twists and turns and has hidden corners and unexpected vistas. Even the front of it - individual plates like 11th century armor - feels "crafted." You'll see weathervanes and quilts and naďve sculpture and, and, and.... This building is next to the hole where the new MoMA will be. It's also across the street from the Donnell Branch of the NYPL. In the children's division are the REAL (as in stuffed animals owned by Milne) Winnie the Pooh, Piglet, Eeyore. Speaking of NYPL - go in the building at 42nd and Fifth and walk up to the newly-restored reading room. Have somebody take your picture by Patience and Fortitude, the lions who guard the steps outside. And while you're in the neighborhood, walk over to Grand Central Station. Look up at the beautiful façade. Then go in the main waiting room. It's awfully pretty and is in SO many movies you'll feel you know it. By the way, the museums all have websites. You can check out what shows are running, summer hours, etc. Martha _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jun 20 10:11:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA28812 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 10:11:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5KE7WC14515; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 08:07:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5KE7Nq09955; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 08:07:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailhost.softwareinnovation.com (w002.z064000176.dfw-tx.dsl.cnc.net [64.0.176.2]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5KDonq04235 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 07:50:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from theforce [64.0.176.2] by mailhost.softwareinnovation.com (SMTPD32-6.00) id ADE16303DE; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 08:51:29 -0500 From: "Betsy Marshall" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Women's headgear, medieval Norway? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal In-reply-to: Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 08:51:29 -0500 Status: RO This may be a helpful site, or you may have seen it already, but thought I'd pass along the info, if nothing else it is source you can e-mail for more information. Betsy http://www.frojel.com/_index.html or this may be your group....?? -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On Behalf Of Ingrid G. Storro Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2002 4:10 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Women's headgear, medieval Norway? Of course I'll ask the other women in the group; I've asked a couple already. :) But part of my problem is that until fairly recently, this has been mainly a live steel fighting group, with major focus on armour and weapons - for men. From what I've gathered, research into women's clothing hasn't been as extensive within the group. So I thought I'd ask this knowledgable list if anyone had any ideas - it can't hurt, right? :) Also, I'm not only concerned with meeting group standards (however high they may be) - I want to be as authentic as at all possible based on the available evidence. And considering the number of people on this list, I figured it just might be possible that someone would have info that would be new to the group as well. Well, I hoped, at least. :) Ingrid _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jun 20 10:46:10 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29029 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 10:46:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5KEfPC16792; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 08:41:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5KEfNq24055; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 08:41:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5KER9q17715 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 08:27:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA26479 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 09:50:54 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Scandinavian clothing, was Women's headgear, medieval Norway? In-Reply-To: <3D114443.6060902@earthlink.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 09:50:54 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO Coming in late to this thread... I promised Anne a reference on this book, and it may also be useful to the original poster: Medieval Manner of Dress: Documents, Images and Surviving Examples of Northern Europe, Emphasizing Gotland in the Baltic Sea. Else Marie Gutarp (Gotlands Fornsals 2001, ISBN 91-88036-43-X). Gutarp is a costume designer associated with the County Museum of Gotland, and she is in charge of the clothing production for Gotland Medieval Week, an annual reenactment festival. The translation into English was done by Desiree Koslin, whom Kalamazoo-goers would recognize. I bought my copy through Desiree for $28.50 including postage. The book is small and only about 100 pages, and it focuses mostly on Scandinavia. It does draw on the rest of Europe to fill in gaps. It's aimed, I think, for living history and reenactment crowds. The scope is a little large and fuzzy; I see references from 12th through 15th century and not always a clear expression of changes over time -- lots of "people in the Middle Ages did X." She covers a bit of everything: seam treatments, accessories, fabric production, tools, clerical garments. There are quite a few images of medieval art I haven't seen before, along with some old standards, and a few interesting quotes from Scandanavian source documents, in translation. There are also some good photographs of extant accessories, shoes, fabric, plus some recognizable images of the Herjolfsnes and Boksten garment finds and the Golden Gown. Many of the images of general costume styles are redrawings. The bibliography looks excellent, but of course the sources are nearly all in Scandanavian languages! The author provides her own cutting patterns, on one page, of a basic gored body garment that can be adapted to shirt, kirtle, tunic, tabard, or surcote -- that to me looks mostly like how-to for reenactors, based on general principles from the period but adapted to modern cutting methods. She also includes photos of models wearing her creations, next to the artwork she was using as inspiration. Some are more believable than others. Her Herjolfsnes dress is very nice. She definitely has an advantage in having models of the right facial and body types, as well as authentic buildings and landscapes for scenery! If you can't find this by ILL or online, I'll put you in touch with Desiree, who surely will be able to sell you a copy. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jun 20 13:02:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29658 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 13:02:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5KGuZC28768; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 10:56:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5KGuQq12299; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 10:56:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pimout1-int.prodigy.net (pimout1-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.77]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5KGRTq25222 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 10:27:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ivy7105eycv5lb (adsl-65-69-140-142.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net [65.69.140.142]) by pimout1-int.prodigy.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id g5KGRSA313466 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 12:27:28 -0400 Message-ID: <001a01c21877$97158520$0401a8c0@ivy7105eycv5lb> From: "BH Macchia" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0017_01C2184D.ADF79EB0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] (no subject) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 11:29:02 -0500 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C2184D.ADF79EB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I jsut signed up for this newsgroup,so I am sure this old stuff for the = rest of you. I need to find patterns for 1920's flapper dresses, men's = formal wear, women's underwear garments and a 1920's brides gown. Could = you help me. Thanks BH MAcchia for Pop-Up Theatre Dallas TX ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C2184D.ADF79EB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I jsut signed up for this newsgroup,so = I am sure=20 this old stuff for the rest of you.  I need to find patterns = for=20 1920's flapper dresses, men's formal wear, women's underwear garments = and a=20 1920's brides gown.  Could you help me.
Thanks
BH MAcchia for Pop-Up = Theatre
Dallas TX
------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C2184D.ADF79EB0-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jun 20 13:55:15 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29937 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 13:55:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5KHpoC04340; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 11:51:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5KHpoq15639; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 11:51:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bird2.de.uu.net (bird2.de.uu.net [193.101.111.28]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5K74pq04191 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 01:04:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from vs-books.de (pec-166-149.tnt11.me2.uunet.de [149.225.166.149]) by bird2.de.uu.net (5.5.5/5.5.5) with ESMTP id JAA14674 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 09:04:49 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <3D117E99.E7BAF769@vs-books.de> From: Torsten =?iso-8859-1?Q?Verh=FClsdonk?= X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@net.indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] help needed ! Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 09:04:57 +0200 Status: RO Hello there, I am translating a book on medieval military costume and came across a fabric used in 1459 on a black huque of Sir John Fastolfe - this fabric is called "sengle" - unfortunatly I have no idea what this is or if there exists an modern word or even a comparable fabric. Any possible help is urgently needed. Greeting from Germany Yours Torsten Verhulsdonk -- VS-BOOKS Carl Schulze & Torsten Verhülsdonk GbR Postfach 20 05 40 D- 44635 Herne Fon ++49 (0) 2325 73818 Fax ++49 (0) 2325 792311 Internet: http://www.vs-books.de/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jun 20 13:55:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29941 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 13:55:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5KHpWC04272; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 11:51:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5KHpTq15382; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 11:51:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5K6Iaq22713 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 00:18:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.35.247]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GXZ00FUHQUXCR@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 23:18:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Boned 'stomacher' in Bueckelaer? In-reply-to: <5.1.0.14.2.20020619182307.01da6cb0@mail.frognet.net> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020619225217.00c9a960@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <11a.12a21781.2a423178@aol.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 23:00:27 -0700 Status: RO >2) A boned stomacher would not generally be worn during the day. In many >cases, a bone stomacher is part of 'fancy dress'....not what I would wear >to the market on butchering day. What period was it only fancy-dress? Do we know, from any other source, that stomachers with stiffeners were corset substitutes? >3) The cost for bone to use to stiffen a stomacher (or corset) would have >been quite expensive. Not if it were stiffened with something cheap, like locally-grown bents, grasses, basketry-fibre, or 1/16" thick wood (think tongue depressors, which do flex a little). And the bra-less look isn't period here, so the woman would have done something to keep from flopping. >Stomachers were generally a single piece...much like what we call a busk. Not the ones I have seen photos of. >To create a stomacher from cloth and take the time to stiffen it with >individual boning would not give the desired effect. It just might give the desired effect, if the stiffeners were close enough together. >Which makes another point....bone, unless carved (and more often than not >they were very decoratively carved) does not show/have a 'grain.' Bone really does have a visible grain. That's how one can tell a bone item from an ivory one, even if the item has a smooth finish. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jun 20 13:55:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29945 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 13:55:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5KHq6C04382; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 11:52:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5KHq5q15837; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 11:52:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from studorg.hiof.no (IDENT:RrSvTyYvSShU1VOKrxKj6UR5SE4LMQBb@studorg.hiof.no [158.36.33.137]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5K9JXq01562 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 03:19:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (ingridgs@localhost) by studorg.hiof.no (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g5K9JWS22377 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 11:19:32 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ingrid_G=2E_Storr=F8?= To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Women's headgear, medieval Norway? In-Reply-To: <3D113F05.FDB227BE@dandy.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 11:19:32 +0200 (CEST) Status: RO On Wed, 19 Jun 2002, leigh tartaglio wrote: > First, who on the Continent, if at all, was Norway most closely allied > with? This might give clues as to styles. Ah, good point! > You can also look to church sculpture and paintings. Yup, that's my next move. :) I found out yesterday that a museum curator friend of mine has access to a lot of picture material that I'll be allowed to put my clammy hands on for a while, so I'm definitely one step closer. :) > If I come across anything else, I'll pass it along. Great! :) Ingrid _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jun 20 13:55:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29949 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 13:55:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5KHpxC04363; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 11:51:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5KHpwq15734; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 11:51:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5K9Iaq01365 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 03:18:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KJ5F63089C00JA0D@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 10:21:45 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KJ5F5Z3D4O017RH1@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 10:21:40 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Thu, 20 Jun 2002 10:15:26 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Thu, 20 Jun 2002 10:14:51 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.74) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 10:14:49 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Boned 'stomacher' in Bueckelaer? In-reply-to: <200206191618.g5JGItq18908@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <57F909B2B74@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 10:14:49 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > I'm looking at the Bueckelaer painting, 'Christ in the house of > Mary and Martha': http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/html/b/beuckela/ > > The woman on the right appears to possibly have a boned stomacher > under the lacing under her gown -- based on the vertical lines of > the 'stomacher', and on the way it's pushing her bust up. > > Thoughts, folks? My first thought would have been bodice or corset, rather than stomacher - *possibly* corded or quilted rather than boned, possibly not. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jun 20 13:55:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29953 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 13:55:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5KHqCC04414; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 11:52:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5KHqBq15911; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 11:52:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5K9dDq05942 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 03:39:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KJ5FR6OA9C00FRSA@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 10:42:19 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KJ5FQVIPP8017RH1@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 10:38:31 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Thu, 20 Jun 2002 10:32:17 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Thu, 20 Jun 2002 10:31:30 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.74) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 10:31:27 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Boned 'stomacher' in Bueckelaer? In-reply-to: <200206200246.g5K2krq26562@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <57FD7A93113@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 10:31:27 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > > However, I doubt that the wrinkles caused just by lacing would be > > that regular. > > I agree with this interp. The piece looks boned...stiffened in some > way. Look at the top of this stomacher. It is thick and not wrinkled > in any way. It is boned. How this could be interpreted as wrinkled is > beyond me. it might if it's a layer of thinner fabric over a stiffer- thicker interlining. I've had stuff wrinkle in fairly small/regular creases like that if the interlining layer is too thick heavy to wrinkle much but the outer fabric is being pulled by the garment over the top. The top edge isn't being pulled in but it is lower down so it could be that the lower part is wrinkling most and it's spread out to smooth at the top edge where it is also being held flat by the stitching holding it to the interlining and lining..... possibly. I don't think it is so in this case, however. Looks like a boned/quilted or corded underbodice or corset to me. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jun 20 13:56:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29957 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 13:56:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5KHqXC04510; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 11:52:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5KHqVq16185; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 11:52:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r04.mx.aol.com (imo-r04.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.100]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5KBN0q28373 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 05:23:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Mayfair13a@aol.com by imo-r04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 6.14e.f9debde (16634) for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 07:22:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Mayfair13a@aol.com Message-ID: <14e.f9debde.2a43150a@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Women's headgear, medieval Norway? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10512 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 07:22:50 EDT Status: RO Hi Ingrid, Just a thought but if might be helpful to look at Danish and German costumes of the same era. I would think that that clothing would not be too far removed from what was being worn in Norway. If you can gain access to the SCA publication, "The Complete Anachronist, #59" check the bibliography. You may just find what you're looking for. Cheers! Pasha _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jun 20 13:57:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29965 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 13:57:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5KHrtC04687; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 11:53:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5KHrtq17136; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 11:53:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5KDlkq03133 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 07:47:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.133.149.112] (pm4-112.eos.net [205.133.149.112]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA10117 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 09:47:44 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200206200246.g5K2kgq26492@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: boned stomacher Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 09:39:29 -0400 Status: RO Granted, this is not my period. But to me this picture doesn't seem to depict a stomacher at all, much less a piece of wood. It just looks like the woman's kirtle, either stiffened or worn over her corset, showing as usual under a laced overgown, with some sort of apron over that. Boy, this artists certainly has a fascination for raw meat, doesn't he? Or was raw meat just "in" at the time? Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jun 20 13:57:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29970 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 13:57:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5KHs6C04717; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 11:54:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5KHs4q17280; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 11:54:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from studorg.hiof.no (IDENT:pvNKn059yXQIjkL7bSO1NrQfbpZ3pI2R@studorg.hiof.no [158.36.33.137]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5KEOIq16511 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 08:24:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (ingridgs@localhost) by studorg.hiof.no (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g5KEOHC24546 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 16:24:17 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ingrid_G=2E_Storr=F8?= To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] Women's headgear, medieval Norway? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 16:24:17 +0200 (CEST) Status: RO > This may be a helpful site, or you may have seen it already, but thought I'd > pass along the info, if nothing else it is source you can e-mail for more > information. Betsy > > http://www.frojel.com/_index.html > > or this may be your group....?? No, not my group; we're Kongshirden 1308 Akershus (http://steel.laiv.org/kjertesveinene - the site is only available in Norwegian as of yet, but we're translating to English as soon as possible). I'll take a look, thanks! :) Ingrid _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jun 20 13:58:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29974 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 13:58:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5KHsCC04751; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 11:54:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5KHsBq17365; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 11:54:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from WDNE2K.mackie.com ([12.144.236.152]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5KF6mq07203 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 09:06:49 -0600 (MDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.5762.3 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Issogne Fresco/costumes book Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Issogne Fresco/costumes book Thread-Index: AcIX8cyR/gA20HTxT1KdoNaCWTPuSwAeeJ5w From: "Colleen McDonald" To: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g5KF6mq07203 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 08:06:10 -0700 Status: RO > "Costumi A Issogne" <> Thanks, Linda and Cynthia. I've got an ILL request in at my local library for this one as well. I'm really looking forward to seeing it. Colleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jun 20 13:58:16 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29978 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 13:58:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5KHsiC04839; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 11:54:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5KHsiq17766; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 11:54:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13308.mail.yahoo.com (web13308.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.44]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g5KH4eq16995 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 11:04:41 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020620170439.87991.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13308.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 18:04:39 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Retro Patterns To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <001a01c21877$97158520$0401a8c0@ivy7105eycv5lb> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 18:04:39 +0100 (BST) Status: RO Hi BH, The best place for that is the sewingretro list on Yahoo I believe. They do 1930s but I believe also earlier. Nicole --- BH Macchia wrote: > I jsut signed up for this newsgroup,so I am sure this old stuff for the rest > of you. I need to find patterns for 1920's flapper dresses, men's formal > wear, women's underwear garments and a 1920's brides gown. Could you help > me. > Thanks > BH MAcchia for Pop-Up Theatre > Dallas TX > ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jun 20 13:59:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29982 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 13:59:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5KHtaC04951; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 11:55:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5KHtZq18285; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 11:55:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d08.mx.aol.com (imo-d08.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.40]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5KHjEq11268 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 11:45:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 6.115.133f3bfb (4340) for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 13:45:04 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <115.133f3bfb.2a436e9f@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Boned 'stomacher' in Bueckelaer? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_115.133f3bfb.2a436e9f_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10568 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 13:45:03 EDT Status: RO --part1_115.133f3bfb.2a436e9f_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/19/2002 10:37:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time, maggiros@hotmail.com writes: > But boning (of whatever kind)is flexible, which wood is not. Wood....depending on what kind, can be flexible. Remember this is really a religious painting...a "Biblical" renaissance....so the artist can do a lot of what he wants. Who knows what he might try to give it an old timey effect? If I were to reproduce the costume depicted, I'd use rushes in channels of heavy canvas to stiffen this thing....lots of them so it was thick. But of course we'll never know what it was.....or if it was really there or made up. Wood, which is not a bad choice, would look good, and so would steel with some quilting maybe. But IMNSHO, the most periodly accurate look would be rushes. Those who disagree with me are......of course just as right. [except for that wrinkle thing.....I just never would've seen that] --part1_115.133f3bfb.2a436e9f_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/19/2002 10:37:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time, maggiros@hotmail.com writes:


But boning (of whatever kind)is flexible, which wood is not.  


Wood....depending on what kind, can be flexible.

Remember this is really a religious painting...a "Biblical" renaissance....so the artist can do a lot of what he wants. Who knows what he might try to give it an old timey effect?

If I were to reproduce the costume depicted, I'd use rushes in channels of heavy canvas to stiffen this thing....lots of them so it was thick. But of course we'll never know what it was.....or if it was really there or made up. Wood, which is not a bad choice, would look good, and so would steel with some quilting maybe. But IMNSHO, the most periodly accurate look would be rushes.

Those who disagree with me are......of course just as right. [except for that wrinkle thing.....I just never would've seen that] --part1_115.133f3bfb.2a436e9f_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jun 20 14:15:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA30058 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 14:15:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5KICDC06720; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 12:12:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5KICBq28446; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 12:12:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtpout.mac.com (smtpout.mac.com [204.179.120.85]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5KIBGq27924 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 12:11:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp-relay02-en1.mac.com (smtp-relay02-en1 [10.13.10.225]) by smtpout.mac.com (8.12.1/8.10.2/1.0) with ESMTP id g5KIBFk2025874 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 11:11:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp02.mac.com (asmtp02-qfe3 [10.13.10.66]) by smtp-relay02-en1.mac.com (8.12.1/8.12.1/1.0) with ESMTP id g5KIB9Ks003502 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 11:11:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [128.95.177.85] ([128.95.177.85]) by asmtp02.mac.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id GY0NUK00.EEQ for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 11:11:08 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Retro Patterns From: Agnes G To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20020620170439.87991.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 11:11:22 -0700 Status: RO Try looking at the Greater Bay Area Costumer's Guild pattern review page - you might find what you want there. Agnes http://www.gbacg.org/Patterns/ > From: N Kipar > Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com > Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 18:04:39 +0100 (BST) > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Retro Patterns > > Hi BH, > > The best place for that is the sewingretro list on Yahoo I believe. They do > 1930s but I believe also earlier. > > Nicole > > --- BH Macchia wrote: > I jsut signed up for this > newsgroup,so I am sure this old stuff for the rest >> of you. I need to find patterns for 1920's flapper dresses, men's formal >> wear, women's underwear garments and a 1920's brides gown. Could you help >> me. >> Thanks >> BH MAcchia for Pop-Up Theatre >> Dallas TX >> > > ===== > Nicole Kipar M.A. > Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs > Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 > URL: http://www.kipar.org/ > Email: marquis@kipar.org > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jun 20 15:06:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA30216 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 15:06:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5KJ33C11313; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 13:03:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5KJ30q26543; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 13:03:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bird2.de.uu.net (bird2.de.uu.net [193.101.111.28]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5HItRa17782 for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 12:55:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from vs-books.de (pec-31-172.tnt4.me2.uunet.de [149.225.31.172]) by bird2.de.uu.net (5.5.5/5.5.5) with ESMTP id UAA20444 for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 20:55:25 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <3D0E306C.582AFB43@vs-books.de> From: Torsten =?iso-8859-1?Q?Verh=FClsdonk?= X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@net.indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] help needed ! Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 20:54:36 +0200 Status: RO Hello there, I am translating a book on medieval military costume and came across a fabric used in 1459 on a black huque of Sir John Fastolfe - this fabric is called "sengle" - unfortunatly I have no idea what this is or if there exists an modern word or even a comparable fabric. Any possible help is urgently needed. Greeting from Germany Yours Torsten Verhulsdonk -- VS-BOOKS Carl Schulze & Torsten Verhülsdonk GbR Postfach 20 05 40 D- 44635 Herne Fon ++49 (0) 2325 73818 Fax ++49 (0) 2325 792311 Internet: http://www.vs-books.de/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jun 20 16:08:10 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA30432 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 16:08:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5KK4QC16646; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 14:04:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5KK4Mq00692; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 14:04:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from niobium.golden.net (niobium.golden.net [199.166.210.90]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5KK39q29785 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 14:03:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from d7k7b6 (AS53-01-52.cas-ows.golden.net [216.209.7.52]) by niobium.golden.net (8.11.6/8.10.1) with SMTP id g5KK36X21277; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 16:03:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001501c21896$56da3fe0$3407d1d8@d7k7b6> From: "Five Rivers" To: Cc: References: <200206201801.g5KI1vq22285@net.indra.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Retro Patterns MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Five Rivers" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 16:08:27 -0400 Status: RO > I need to find patterns for 1920's flapper dresses, men's formal > > wear, women's underwear garments and a 1920's brides gown. We carry several patterns which may suit your needs, all of which you can view through our secure, online catalogue. Past Patterns Flapper Era slip-on bloused dress Past Patterns Flapper Era slip-on evening dress Past Patterns 1929-1931 Wedding gown Folkwear Monte Carlo Dress Folkwear Sunburst cocoon coat Folkwear Tango Dress Unfortunately I don't know of any men's patterns for that time period, something about which I've complained to pattern manufacturers, along with the dearth of patterns for men available for Regency, early Baroque/Restoration, Edwardian. Regards Lorina Five Rivers Chapmanry ~ purveyors of quality hand-crafted cooperage fine hand-sewn embroidered garments, historical sewing patterns & embroidery supplies (519) 799-5577, fax (519) 799-5418 http://www.5rivers.org email: info@5rivers.org _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jun 20 16:20:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA30504 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 16:20:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5KKH4C17596; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 14:17:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5KKH0q07554; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 14:17:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5KKGDq07079 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 14:16:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g5KKGBJJ014964 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 16:16:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Boned 'stomacher' in Bueckelaer? In-Reply-To: <115.133f3bfb.2a436e9f@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 16:16:11 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO On Thu, 20 Jun 2002 AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > Remember this is really a religious painting...a "Biblical" renaissance....so > the artist can do a lot of what he wants. Who knows what he might try to give > it an old timey effect? Possibly! Bueckelaer seems to put genre scenes and religious stuff together -- the religious scene is in the far background, and the genre scene is in the foreground. I wonder if he is doing this so he can get away with showing stuff like kitchen maids skewering chickens (lascivious implication) in a painting that has a 'religious' title... -- Mara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jun 20 16:29:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA30530 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 16:29:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5KKQ8C18239; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 14:26:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5KKQ3q12444; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 14:26:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5KKPKq12045 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 14:25:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28931 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 15:49:04 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] help needed ! In-Reply-To: <3D117E99.E7BAF769@vs-books.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by net.indra.com id g5KKPKq12045 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 15:49:04 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Thu, 20 Jun 2002, Torsten [iso-8859-1] Verhülsdonk wrote: > I am translating a book on medieval military costume and came across a > fabric used in 1459 on a black huque of Sir John Fastolfe - this > fabric is called "sengle" - unfortunatly I have no idea what this is > or if there exists an modern word or even a comparable fabric. (Oddly, both your messages came through to my box just now, though the first was dated Monday.) Are you sure the reference is a fabric, and not a descriptive term? I've seen some written references from around this period that distinguished between "double" and "single" (unlined) garments. My first thought was that "sengle" might mean single-layered. There's also a silk called "sendal." Is there any question about the spelling or handwriting? And perhaps if we had the entire sentence/passage, we could pick up some key detail that would be useful. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jun 20 17:00:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA30655 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 17:00:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5KKv8C20928; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 14:57:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5KKv4q29121; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 14:57:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web10005.mail.yahoo.com (web10005.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.41]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g5KKrcq27179 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 14:53:38 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020620205335.97879.qmail@web10005.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.50.56.226] by web10005.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 13:53:35 PDT From: Kay Shelton Subject: [h-cost] Trip to NYC To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 13:53:35 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO I'm not sure exactly when you're going to be in Washington, DC, but it's worth checking to see if the FolkLife Festival is happening. It's downtown at the Mall where the Smithsonian museums are located, handy to the Metro. It runs June26-30 and July 3-7 this year. This year's theme is The Silk Road, with many craftspeople working on site. The URL is http://www.silkroadproject.org/smithsonian/index.html. It's well worth the time with much going on. Kay __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jun 20 17:19:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA30696 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 17:19:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5KLG6C22549; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 15:16:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5KLG1q09402; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 15:16:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m07.mx.aol.com (imo-m07.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.162]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5KLFvq09355 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 15:15:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo-m07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 6.129.1315a357 (4419) for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 17:15:47 -0400 (EDT) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Message-ID: <129.1315a357.2a43a003@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Retro - 1920 patterns To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_129.1315a357.2a43a003_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10512 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 17:15:47 EDT Status: RO --part1_129.1315a357.2a43a003_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/20/2002 9:58:01 AM Pacific Daylight Time, bhmacchia@sbcglobal.net writes: > I jsut signed up for this newsgroup,so I am sure this old stuff for the rest > of you. I need to find patterns for 1920's flapper dresses, men's formal > wear, women's underwear garments and a 1920's brides gown. Could you help > me. Here are some links to sites who sell such patterns. www.alteryears.com www.harperhouse.com www.lamodebagatelle.com (more late teens, but worth a look) www.pastpatterns.com angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes Theatrical Costume Design www.cabbagerosecostumes.com "As in a theater, the eyes of men, after a well-graced actor leaves the stage, are idly bent on him that enters next, thinking his prattle to be tedious." W. Shakespeare --part1_129.1315a357.2a43a003_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/20/2002 9:58:01 AM Pacific Daylight Time, bhmacchia@sbcglobal.net writes:


I jsut signed up for this newsgroup,so I am sure this old stuff for the rest of you.  I need to find patterns for 1920's flapper dresses, men's formal wear, women's underwear garments and a 1920's brides gown.  Could you help me.


Here are some links to sites who sell such patterns.
www.alteryears.com
www.harperhouse.com
www.lamodebagatelle.com (more late teens, but worth a look)
www.pastpatterns.com


angela
+++++
Angela F. Lazear
Cabbage Rose Costumes
Theatrical Costume Design
www.cabbagerosecostumes.com
"As in a theater, the eyes of men,
after a well-graced actor leaves the stage,
are idly bent on him that enters next,
thinking his prattle to be tedious."
W. Shakespeare
 --part1_129.1315a357.2a43a003_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jun 20 17:40:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA30785 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 17:40:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5KLb6C24308; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 15:37:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5KLb2q20646; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 15:37:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hookworm.frognet.net (hookworm.frognet.net [204.192.96.22]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g5KLaqq20562 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 15:36:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 22635 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2002 21:36:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO khephera.frognet.net) (65.221.79.42) by mail.frognet.net with SMTP; 20 Jun 2002 21:36:33 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020620173201.01d328d0@mail.frognet.net> X-Sender: judi@mail.frognet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Judith Taylor Subject: Re: [h-cost] Boned 'stomacher' in Bueckelaer? In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20020619225217.00c9a960@mail.frys.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020619182307.01da6cb0@mail.frognet.net> <11a.12a21781.2a423178@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 17:35:27 -0400 Status: RO Carolyn Kayta Barrows put into words: >>2) A boned stomacher would not generally be worn during the day. In many cases, a bone stomacher is part of 'fancy dress'....not what I would wear to the market on butchering day. > >What period was it only fancy-dress? Do we know, from any other source, that stomachers with stiffeners were corset substitutes? My apologies for the confusion. I was referring to it as if it were a single piece of solid (or carved) bone...more to the effect of a busk. Judith 'The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.' - Albert Einstein ICQ: 67460562 | YahooID: lace_n_steel | AIM: BlacksmithLace _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jun 20 18:03:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA30861 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 18:03:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5KM08C26174; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 16:00:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5KM04q02168; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 16:00:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5KLxKq01800 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 15:59:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A09AB9021A; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 17:00:58 -0500 Message-ID: <003101c218a5$b3742900$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <129.1315a357.2a43a003@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Retro - 1920 patterns MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002D_01C21884.2AE9A4A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 17:59:05 -0400 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01C21884.2AE9A4A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I just purchased a 1920s pattern from http://www.silkpoppy.com/patternframe.htm . These are original patterns from the 1920s-1940s. I purchased pattern MC5941 to make my dress to go to one of the two balls that I am going to in August. This dress is for the Red Cross Ball. Kim, the business owner, graded the pattern to my size from the original pattern. She can make you a pattern from the original or can make one graded to your size. Kim is going to be one of our new instructors. She is a master at grading patterns and working with the bias cut dresses. Her first classes will be about making the bias cut dresses, a beginners and an advanced level classes. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01C21884.2AE9A4A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I just purchased a 1920s pattern from http://www.silkpoppy.c= om/patternframe.htm . These=20 are original patterns from the 1920s-1940s. I purchased = pattern MC5941=20 to make my dress to go to one of the two balls that I am going to = in=20 August.  This dress is for the Red Cross Ball.  Kim, the = business=20 owner, graded the pattern to my size from the original pattern.  = She can=20 make you a pattern from the original or can make one graded to your=20 size. 
 
Kim is going to be one of our new instructors.  She is a = master at=20 grading patterns and working with the bias cut dresses.  Her first = classes=20 will be about making the bias cut dresses, a beginners and an=20 advanced level classes.
 
Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume = Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com =
http://www.costumeclassroom.com<= /A>
  ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01C21884.2AE9A4A0-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jun 20 18:16:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA30923 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 18:16:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5KMD4C27219; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 16:13:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5KMD1q08624; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 16:13:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5KMCFq08303 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 16:12:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A3B21A50202; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 17:14:10 -0500 Message-ID: <003901c218a7$8a97bb80$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] YIPPEE!!!!! Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 18:12:17 -0400 Status: RO Susan and I are so excited... today I received word that I have been awarded our first grant. It is the Costume Society of America's Region VI's 2002 Professional Development Grant. The grant will be used to expand our "A Year in Fashion" series for the years, 1920, 1921, 1922, & 1923. This grant will help us to purchase new software and an optical scanner to read all the text so we don't have to hand type all the text of the articles. This will really help us save time. YIPPEE!!!! For those who want to see how an example of how we plan to expand the 1920s version, look at "A Year in Fashion: 1912" http://www.costumegallery.com/Delineator/May_1912/Magazine.htm This area has really grown this month. This year in the series is almost complete... we have four more articles to add... teenage girls, school age girls, ladies' shirtwaists, and toddlers. It will be completed by the end of July. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jun 20 18:40:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA31015 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 18:40:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5KManC29083; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 16:36:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5KMagq19971; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 16:36:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m01.mx.aol.com (imo-m01.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.4]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5KMYgq19044 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 16:34:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo-m01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 6.94.2815d7fd (4419) for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 18:34:32 -0400 (EDT) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Message-ID: <94.2815d7fd.2a43b277@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Retro - 1920 patterns To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_94.2815d7fd.2a43b277_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10512 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 18:34:31 EDT Status: RO --part1_94.2815d7fd.2a43b277_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Penny That is an awesome dress! It isn't listed in the for sale section though. Does that mean you bought the only copy or did you get a graded version? I would like to buy a copy of it, as I've seen it (or versions almost identical to it) at various vintage patterns sites and they've always been way out of my orice range. angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes Theatrical Costume Design www.cabbagerosecostumes.com "O! Swear not by the moon, the inconstant moon, That monthly changes in her circled orb, Lest that thy love prove likewise variable." W. Shakespeare In a message dated 6/20/2002 3:00:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time, penny@costumegallery.com writes: > I just purchased a 1920s pattern from > http://www.silkpoppy.com/patternframe.htm . These are original patterns > from the 1920s-1940s. I purchased pattern MC5941 to make my dress to go to > one of the two balls that I am going to in August. This dress is for the > Red Cross Ball. Kim, the business owner, graded the pattern to my size > from the original pattern. She can make you a pattern from the original or > can make one graded to your size. > --part1_94.2815d7fd.2a43b277_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Penny

That is an awesome dress! It isn't listed in the for sale section though. Does that mean you bought the only copy or did you get a graded version?  I would like to buy a copy of it, as I've seen it (or versions almost identical to it) at various vintage patterns sites and they've always been way out of my orice range.

angela
+++++
Angela F. Lazear
Cabbage Rose Costumes
Theatrical Costume Design
www.cabbagerosecostumes.com
"O! Swear not by the moon, the inconstant moon,
That monthly changes in her circled orb,
Lest that thy love prove likewise variable."
W. Shakespeare

In a message dated 6/20/2002 3:00:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time, penny@costumegallery.com writes:


I just purchased a 1920s pattern from http://www.silkpoppy.com/patternframe.htm . These are original patterns from the 1920s-1940s. I purchased pattern MC5941 to make my dress to go to one of the two balls that I am going to in August.  This dress is for the Red Cross Ball.  Kim, the business owner, graded the pattern to my size from the original pattern.  She can make you a pattern from the original or can make one graded to your size.


--part1_94.2815d7fd.2a43b277_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jun 20 18:42:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA31019 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 18:42:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5KMcWC29248; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 16:38:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5KMcVq21018; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 16:38:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from atlantic.mail.pas.earthlink.net (atlantic.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.179]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5KMYpq19115 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 16:34:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from iljohn01-12.midwest.net ([64.91.192.17] helo=hppav) by atlantic.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17LAVt-00011J-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 15:34:49 -0700 Message-ID: <004e01c218aa$8aff76a0$11c05b40@hppav> From: "Mary-Gayle Jany" To: References: <003901c218a7$8a97bb80$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] YIPPEE!!!!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Mary-Gayle Jany" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 17:33:45 -0500 Status: RO Congratulations! Just keep growing. You're doing some terrific work! Meg Jany ----- Original Message ----- From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2002 5:12 PM Subject: [h-cost] YIPPEE!!!!! > Susan and I are so excited... today I received word that I have been awarded > our first grant. It is the Costume Society of America's Region VI's 2002 > Professional Development Grant. The grant will be used to expand our "A > Year in Fashion" series for the years, 1920, 1921, 1922, & 1923. This grant > will help us to purchase new software and an optical scanner to read all the > text so we don't have to hand type all the text of the articles. This will > really help us save time. YIPPEE!!!! > > For those who want to see how an example of how we plan to expand the 1920s > version, look at "A Year in Fashion: 1912" > http://www.costumegallery.com/Delineator/May_1912/Magazine.htm This area > has really grown this month. This year in the series is almost complete... > we have four more articles to add... teenage girls, school age girls, > ladies' shirtwaists, and toddlers. It will be completed by the end of July. > > Penny Ladnier > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > http://www.costumegallery.com > http://www.costumeclassroom.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jun 20 21:36:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA31479 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 21:36:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5L1X5C09094; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 19:33:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5L1X1q23373; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 19:33:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5L1WUq23254 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 19:32:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.35.247]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GY10095R8A495@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 18:32:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com (Unverified) To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020620175802.00c7fb20@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] my "new" sewing machine Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 18:32:24 -0700 Status: RO It's a Wilcox and Gibbs chain stitch machine, with patent dates ranging from "57" to "71" (I'm assuming 1857 and 1871). It is bolted to a 9" x 12" x .5" flat wood base, with veneer on top, four half-round bumps underneath, for feet, and dovetail joints visible from the sides. It has an electric motor grafted onto the wood base, probably from the 30's-40's, but it has a groove for a drive belt just inboard of the flywheel, and no hand crank. (The electrical cords are period pieces, with crumbling or missing insulation, and get replaced before I try out the motor.) Question 1 - is the current wood base original to the machine, or was it added for the electrification? If this base was added later, what might the original base have looked like? Question 2 - how was the machine intended to be operated in, say, 1871? What was that drive belt groove for? Teddy - thank you, thank you, thank you. It was because I tour-guided your e-correspondent thru Berkeley today that I found this sewing machine - marked $20! My birthday is next month, and this is what I'm giving myself. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jun 20 22:22:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA31638 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 22:22:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5L2J3C11157; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 20:19:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5L2J1q06254; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 20:19:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from joplin.siteprotect.com (joplin.siteprotect.com [64.26.0.58]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5L2Ilq06192 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 20:18:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from genteelarts (user123.net206.pa.sprint-hsd.net [65.173.70.123]) by joplin.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA04504 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 21:18:42 -0500 From: "cschmitt@genteelarts" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] my "new" sewing machine Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20020620175802.00c7fb20@mail.frys.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 22:18:39 -0400 Status: RO Question 1 - is the current wood base original to the machine, or was it added for the electrification? If this base was added later, what might the original base have looked like? Question 2 - how was the machine intended to be operated in, say, 1871? What was that drive belt groove for? Katya, The current wood base could be original to the machine, but I have a feeling it was probably added when it was electrified. Usually the machine was mounted to a sewing table with a treadle. Wooden top, elaborate cast iron legs and treadle plate. The drive belt groove is for a leather belt than ran from the machine to a large wheel operated by the treadle. The base may or may not have been made by Wilcox and Gibbs; there were a number of furniture companies that made sewing tables in a variety of styles. Can you find the serial number on the machine? I have a table of manufacturers that lists the serial numbers and the years they were produced. Carolann Schmitt cschmitt@genteelarts.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jun 20 22:32:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA31664 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 22:32:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5L2S4C11575; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 20:28:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5L2S1q08836; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 20:28:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5L2Rsq08754 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 20:27:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id AF9E39B01BA; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 21:29:50 -0500 Message-ID: <003701c218cb$41a2a100$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <94.2815d7fd.2a43b277@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Retro - 1920 patterns MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0033_01C218A9.BA3D14A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 22:27:57 -0400 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0033_01C218A9.BA3D14A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Angela, Kim made me a copy of the pattern. I don't think she sell any of her originals... just make copies of them. I just gave Kim my measurements and she made my pattern. She told me it takes her about a week. She has a lot more patterns that are not on the site too, so just ask her. I meet Kim on the sewretro email list at yahoogroups. There are a lot of fun creative people on that list. They really keep an eye on eBay auctions. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com ------=_NextPart_000_0033_01C218A9.BA3D14A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Angela,
 
Kim made me a copy of the pattern.  I don't think she sell any = of her=20 originals... just make copies of them.  I just gave Kim my = measurements and=20 she made my pattern.  She told me it takes her about a week.  = She has=20 a lot more patterns that are not on the site too, so just ask her.  =
 
I meet Kim on the sewretro email list at yahoogroups.  There=20 are a lot of fun creative people on that list.  They = really=20 keep an eye on eBay auctions.
 
Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume = Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com =
http://www.costumeclassroom.com<= /A>
  ------=_NextPart_000_0033_01C218A9.BA3D14A0-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 21 02:01:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA32410 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 02:01:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5L5w4C20094; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 23:58:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5L5w1q02626; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 23:58:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5L5vtq02602 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 23:57:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.35.247]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GY1003ASKKH7D@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 22:57:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: [h-cost] my "new" sewing machine In-reply-to: X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020620223532.00c8bea0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <4.3.1.2.20020620175802.00c7fb20@mail.frys.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 22:54:03 -0700 Status: RO >Question 1 - is the current wood base original to the machine, or was it >added for the electrification? If this base was added later, what might >the original base have looked like? > >Question 2 - how was the machine intended to be operated in, say, >1871? What was that drive belt groove for? > >Katya, >The current wood base could be original to the machine, but I have a feeling >it was probably added when it was electrified. Usually the machine was >mounted to a sewing table with a treadle. Wooden top, elaborate cast iron >legs and treadle plate. I know what more recent treadle machines look like - I've got a White treadle machine from somewhere near the turn of the 20th century, and my grandmother also had a White treadle machine. >The drive belt groove is for a leather belt that >ran from the machine to a large wheel operated by the treadle. That groove had to be the place for a drive belt, but all I had was the flat wood base and the electric motor. No way is that motor nineteenth-century anything. >The base may >or may not have been made by Wilcox and Gibbs; there were a number of >furniture companies that made sewing tables in a variety of styles. Can you >find the serial number on the machine? I have a table of manufacturers that >lists the serial numbers and the years they were produced. The machine's still pretty dirty, and I can't readily find a serial number. I'll keep looking. Where do you recommend I look? BTW, my geek-Sweetie tried looking up the patent dates I found, on the throat plate of the machine, on the patent office web page. He had no luck with their search engine. The machine has patent dates but no patent numbers, and we couldn't find any patents at all registered on any of the dates - or years! - on the machine. Next time I am near the Sunnyvale, CA, branch of the Patent Office I may drag the machine along and have them look it up for me. Meanwhile, got any pictures of one of these machines still on its original treadle? Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 21 02:06:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA07583 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 02:06:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5L632C20276; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 00:03:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5L631q03648; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 00:03:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bird2.de.uu.net (bird2.de.uu.net [193.101.111.28]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5L62Uq03526 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 00:02:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from vs-books.de (pec-50-26.tnt8.me2.uunet.de [149.225.50.26]) by bird2.de.uu.net (5.5.5/5.5.5) with ESMTP id IAA14370 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 08:02:28 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <3D12C17C.75E8EB29@vs-books.de> From: Torsten =?iso-8859-1?Q?Verh=FClsdonk?= X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com References: <200206210220.g5L2KBq06601@net.indra.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------6D5DA3D818493BB9D9CE856A" Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume sengle - help needed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 08:02:36 +0200 Status: RO --------------6D5DA3D818493BB9D9CE856A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Robin, sorry for posting the request twice - got some problems with my E-Mail server. Anyway, the whole sentence reads: "This (a heuke, huk, huke) was clearly a tabard-like garment - as was the jagged (dagged) huke of black sengle in Sir John Fastlofe's wardrobe in 1459.." The German Textil Museum in Krefeld suggested, that it might mean the German "Zendel" which indeed was a kind of silk. Yours Torsten Are you sure the reference is a fabric, and not a descriptive term? I've seen some written references from around this period that distinguished between "double" and "single" (unlined) garments. My first thought was that "sengle" might mean single-layered. There's also a silk called "sendal." Is there any question about the spelling or handwriting? And perhaps if we had the entire sentence/passage, we could pick up some key detail that would be useful. --------------6D5DA3D818493BB9D9CE856A Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Robin,

sorry for posting the request twice - got some problems with my E-Mail server.

Anyway, the whole sentence reads: 

"This (a heuke, huk, huke) was clearly a tabard-like garment - as was the jagged (dagged) huke of black sengle in Sir John Fastlofe's wardrobe in 1459.."

The German Textil Museum in Krefeld suggested, that it might mean the German "Zendel" which indeed was a kind of silk.

Yours

Torsten

Are you sure the reference is a fabric, and not a descriptive term? I've
seen some written references from around this period that distinguished
between "double" and "single" (unlined) garments. My first thought was
that "sengle" might mean single-layered.

There's also a silk called "sendal."

Is there any question about the spelling or handwriting?

And perhaps if we had the entire sentence/passage, we could pick up some
key detail that would be useful. --------------6D5DA3D818493BB9D9CE856A-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 21 06:37:19 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA28156 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 06:37:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5LAXhC27639; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 04:33:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5LAXfq28602; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 04:33:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5LATxq27878 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 04:30:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KJ6VTMYBIO00YQNM@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 11:29:39 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KJ6VTKWUU200184R@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 11:29:36 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Fri, 21 Jun 2002 11:26:51 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Fri, 21 Jun 2002 11:26:06 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.68) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 11:26:05 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] my "new" sewing machine In-reply-to: <200206210220.g5L2KBq06601@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <598C14B7F4B@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 11:26:05 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > Teddy - thank you, thank you, thank you. It was because I > tour-guided your e-correspondent thru Berkeley today that I found > this sewing machine - marked $20! My birthday is next month, and > this is what I'm giving myself. But Kayta, it's because you were generous enough to offer your services as "native-guide" to a costumer who didn't know the fabric/costume suppliers in the area that you had this wonderful find. Sounds to me like some 'guardian angel' wanted to reward you for your generosity with your time. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 21 10:29:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29074 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 10:29:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5LEQ1C06361; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 08:26:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5LEPhq26032; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 08:25:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from granger.mail.mindspring.net (granger.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.148]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5LDJUq05243 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 07:19:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 1cust27.tnt6.st-louis.mo.da.uu.net ([65.239.243.27] helo=hppav) by granger.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17LOJz-00061A-00 for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 09:19:28 -0400 Message-ID: <007401c21926$76eb9f00$1bf3ef41@hppav> From: "Genie" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Subject: [h-cost] Trip to NYC Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 08:20:49 -0500 Status: RO Um, do any of these shops have websites?? Genie B&J Fabrics 263 W. 40th NY Elegant 222 West 40th Mood 250 West 39th 10th Floor (go up, it's worth it) Daytona Braid 251 West 39th Hyman-Hendler 67 West 38th (ribbon) M&J Trim 6th Ave between 38th and 37th Zohra 235 West 40th (beautiful fabrics from India) Ben Raymond 545 Broadway (miles of inexpensive lace - especially eyelette) Harry Zarin 318 Grand (upholstery/curtain fabrics) Tender Buttons 143 E. 62nd _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 21 10:35:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29099 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 10:35:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5LEW2C06875; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 08:32:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5LEW1q28774; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 08:32:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from crunchy.sound.net (crunchy.sound.net [205.242.194.25]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g5LEVnq28683 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 08:31:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 19728 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2002 14:29:39 -0000 Received: from tnt1-082225.kc.sound.net (HELO oemcomputer.sound.net) (209.153.82.225) by crunchy.sound.net with SMTP; 21 Jun 2002 14:29:39 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20020621091834.009e6580@sound.net> X-Sender: sherylnd@sound.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Sheryl Nance-Durst Subject: Re: [h-cost] (h-cost): good pictures of extant garments... TIP! In-Reply-To: <7C040DB0615@mdx-cf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> References: <200206181805.g5II5ta01152@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 09:31:24 -0500 Status: RO As another librarian/costumer, I heartily agree! Inter Library Loan is a service that I cannot do without. It's amazing how many libraries are willing to entrust their books (and some videos!) to the US postal service so that others can read them. It's expensive and most libraries just write the cost off as part of their service. I actually wrote an article on Inter Library Loan services for Mary Denise Smith's "Costume & Dressmaker" magazine a few years back. Until I started doing the research for it, I had no idea how much money my own library spent on shipping costs to send books out around the country. And salaries for three full-time people to run it. All for a free service. All so that our patrons can get the books that we don't have here. Sometimes I'm so proud to be a librarian. Sheryl Nance-Durst At 10:18 AM 6/19/02 +0000, you wrote: >Not much use in this instance but, how about this for a tip for those >of you who have access to such services. Before spending out lots >of money on books you don't know the content of, request a copy >on Inter Library Loan from your friendly neighbourhood Librarian (in >Nicole's case, hers happens to be a friend of mine who she's on >first name terms with) that way you get to check out the details >before you decide it's worth the money to buy a copy. Even if you >have to pay for the ILL service - it's niot as much as paying for a >copy of the book only to be disappointed by the content when you >get it. > >Teddy >(Librarian and cataloguer) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 21 10:37:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29111 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 10:37:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5LEYIC07053; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 08:34:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5LERRq26916; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 08:27:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5LDwEq16211 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 07:58:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA02175 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 09:22:03 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume sengle - help needed In-Reply-To: <3D12C17C.75E8EB29@vs-books.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by net.indra.com id g5LDwEq16211 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 09:22:03 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Fri, 21 Jun 2002, Torsten [iso-8859-1] Verhülsdonk wrote: > Anyway, the whole sentence reads: > > "This (a heuke, huk, huke) was clearly a tabard-like garment - as was > the jagged (dagged) huke of black sengle in Sir John Fastlofe's > wardrobe in 1459.." OK, then apparently you're not working from the 1459 document -- you're translating something written more recently. That means we don't know if the original researcher misread the wardrobe account to assume "sengle" was a fabric. As far as I know, this account has not been published, though I may be wrong, so we wouldn't know without the original document. Does the author of the book you are working on provide any glossary or footnotes that might illuminate his/her use of the term? > The German Textil Museum in Krefeld suggested, that it might mean the > German "Zendel" which indeed was a kind of silk. That would be the "sendal" I referred to earlier. But the English writer of the document would not have been writing in German, so would have to have made the error directly from "sendal" to "sengle." --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 21 10:37:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29115 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 10:37:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5LEYLC07075; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 08:34:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5LERLq26837; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 08:27:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5LDqgq14412 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 07:52:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA02131 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 09:16:31 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] Drea's site has moved! Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 09:16:31 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO Drea Leed's ISP is going out of business, so she has shifted the Elizabethan costuming site to: http://costume.dm.net/ She says the new site gives her lots of space, and she has all sorts of plans for expansion ;-) --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 21 10:43:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29137 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 10:43:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5LEZcC07211; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 08:35:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5LERWq26966; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 08:27:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r06.mx.aol.com (imo-r06.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.102]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5LE7kq19223 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 08:07:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LLWatts@aol.com by imo-r06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 6.7c.29bd7b0d (4410) for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 10:07:37 -0400 (EDT) From: LLWatts@aol.com Message-ID: <7c.29bd7b0d.2a448d29@aol.com> To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10509 Subject: [h-cost] Plausibility Check on Tuchman Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 10:07:37 EDT Status: RO Hello everyone, I was reading _The Zimmerman Telegram_ by Barbara Tuchman the other day. At one point, she discusses how one of the Allied spy rings started when an American of Czech descent smuggled documents from Prague to London. Here's the quote that makes this sort of on-topic for this list: "Some of them he had sewn inside the soles of his shoes before leaving Prague; the rest were rolled up and inserted in place of the bones in his daughter's corset." I don't know much about early 20th century corsets, but would it really be possible to fit enough papers in boning channels to be worth the effort? I would think it would have been easier to fold the papers and sew them in between the corset lining and outer fabric, but what do I know? Leah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 21 11:10:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA29294 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 11:10:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5LF73C09594; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 09:07:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5LF71q13700; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 09:07:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5LF6sq13661 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 09:06:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comcast.net (pcp670884pcs.indpnd01.mo.comcast.net [68.34.234.170]) by mtaout05.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.8 (built May 13 2002)) with ESMTP id <0GY200EJB9XLWC@mtaout05.icomcast.net> for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 11:05:46 -0400 (EDT) From: "Linda J. Thompson" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Message-id: <3D1341D2.3060406@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 Subject: [h-cost] I ran across this link for patterns Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: LindaJThompson@comcast.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 10:10:10 -0500 Status: RO The Greater Bay Area Costumer's Guild has a site for online patterns... http://www.gbacg.org/buying.htm this is frequently updated... It lists lots of places for patterns online. -- Linda Thompson Visit www.seams-to-be.com where Attitude is Everything _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 21 11:14:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA29309 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 11:14:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5LFBBC09951; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 09:11:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5LFBAq16760; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 09:11:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from NOAADC-MSW03.NOA.Alcoa.com (noaadc-msw03.noa.alcoa.com [147.154.9.220]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5LFA0q15619 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 09:10:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from NOAADC-MXI02.NOA.Alcoa.com (unverified) by NOAADC-MSW03.NOA.Alcoa.com (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.2.10) with ESMTP id for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 11:09:50 -0400 Received: by NOAADC-MXI02.NOA.Alcoa.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 11:09:50 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Fairchild, Connie E." To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: [h-cost] RE: Kayta's new sewing machine Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 11:09:47 -0400 Status: RO Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: It's a Wilcox and Gibbs chain stitch machine, with patent dates ranging from "57" to "71" (I'm assuming 1857 and 1871). It is bolted to a 9" x 12" x .5" flat wood base, with veneer on top, four half-round bumps underneath, for feet, and dovetail joints visible from the sides. It has an electric motor grafted onto the wood base, probably from the 30's-40's, but it has a groove for a drive belt just inboard of the flywheel, and no hand crank. (The electrical cords are period pieces, with crumbling or missing insulation, and get replaced before I try out the motor.) Question 1 - is the current wood base original to the machine, or was it added for the electrification? If this base was added later, what might the original base have looked like? Question 2 - how was the machine intended to be operated in, say, 1871? What was that drive belt groove for? **************** Congratulations on your sewing machine, you made a great purchase. You might be interested in the ISMACS (International Sewing Machine Antique Collectors Society)website at http://www.ismacs.net. I think you'll find lots of things of interest and some helpful information. They have a free ISMACS email digest which is a friendly group of people all over the world who love and work on antique and vintage sewing machines. They discuss anything sewing machine --history, manufacturing, parts and their availablity, restorations, as well as good buys they've found. ; ) Connie E. Fairchild _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 21 11:22:59 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA29347 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 11:22:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5LFJWC10906; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 09:19:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5LFJWq21515; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 09:19:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scanmail2.cableone.net (scanmail2.cableone.net [24.116.0.122]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5LFIYq21095 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 09:18:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scanmail2.cableone.net ([10.116.0.122]) by scanmail2.cableone.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Fri, 21 Jun 2002 08:14:16 -0700 Received: from scanmail2.cableone.net [24.116.0.122] by scanmail2.cableone.net (SMTPD32-7.04) id A2C710CD023C; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 08:14:15 -0700 Received: from kimathlon (186-130.farcpe.cableone.net [24.116.186.130]) by mail.cableone.net with SMTP (MailShield v2.04 - WIN32 Jul 17 2001 17:12:42); Fri, 21 Jun 2002 08:14:15 -0600 From: "Kim Baird" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Plausibility Check on Tuchman Message-ID: <000001c21937$03f94a40$6501a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <7c.29bd7b0d.2a448d29@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal X-SMTP-HELO: kimathlon X-SMTP-MAIL-FROM: kbaird@cableone.net X-SMTP-RCPT-TO: h-costume@indra.com X-SMTP-PEER-INFO: 186-130.farcpe.cableone.net [24.116.186.130] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 10:19:19 -0500 Status: RO If you put paper between the lining and outer corset, it will make crackling paper noise, and could be felt in a search. If you roll paper up very tight and put it in the channels, you could conceivably get a lot of paper out of the country, as there are a lot of boning channels in a corset, and no one is likely to rip the corset apart and check the boning. I assume the book is talking about WWI, when corsets would have been rather long, which means even more space for paper. If it's WWII, why would she be wearing a corset at all? BTW, I like Barbara Tuchman's books. Here is a photo of a long corset: http://www.corsetsandcrinolines.com/timelinepix/1910/edcorset1.jpg Kim -----Original Message----- Hello everyone, I was reading _The Zimmerman Telegram_ by Barbara Tuchman the other day. At one point, she discusses how one of the Allied spy rings started when an American of Czech descent smuggled documents from Prague to London. Here's the quote that makes this sort of on-topic for this list: "Some of them he had sewn inside the soles of his shoes before leaving Prague; the rest were rolled up and inserted in place of the bones in his daughter's corset." I don't know much about early 20th century corsets, but would it really be possible to fit enough papers in boning channels to be worth the effort? I would think it would have been easier to fold the papers and sew them in between the corset lining and outer fabric, but what do I know? Leah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 21 11:34:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA29400 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 11:34:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5LFGAC10505; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 09:16:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5LFG8q19840; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 09:16:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5LFFaq19479 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 09:15:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup-67.28.44.36.dial1.chicago1.level3.net ([67.28.44.36] helo=earthlink.net) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17LQ8N-0001hY-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 08:15:35 -0700 Message-ID: <3D1341E1.414700C5@earthlink.net> From: Ms Berard X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Plausibility Check on Tuchman References: <7c.29bd7b0d.2a448d29@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 10:10:25 -0500 Status: RO Depends on how many pages were in the "documents". A single technical drawing would be considered a document. Onaree LLWatts@aol.com wrote: > > Hello everyone, > > I was reading _The Zimmerman Telegram_ by Barbara Tuchman the other day. At > one point, she discusses how one of the Allied spy rings started when an > American of Czech descent smuggled documents from Prague to London. Here's > the quote that makes this sort of on-topic for this list: > > "Some of them he had sewn inside the soles of his shoes before leaving > Prague; the rest were rolled up and inserted in place of the bones in his > daughter's corset." > > I don't know much about early 20th century corsets, but would it really be > possible to fit enough papers in boning channels to be worth the effort? I > would think it would have been easier to fold the papers and sew them in > between the corset lining and outer fabric, but what do I know? > > Leah > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Ubi dubium ibi libertas: Where there is doubt, there is freedom. -- Latin proverb _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 21 12:27:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA29634 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 12:27:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5LGFHC16977; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 10:15:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5LGFDq23425; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 10:15:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m24.jersey.juno.com (m24.jersey.juno.com [64.136.22.87]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5LGEjq23135 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 10:14:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"6+EQmPyi7QIwbF+RNYxk3zWn2nnT5Uy7zpxEgXTuRk1KZhavy2s8ew=="> Received: (from ysabiau@juno.com) by m24.jersey.juno.com (jqueuemail) id G5UD97XQ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 12:13:51 EDT To: h-costume@net.indra.com Message-ID: <20020621.121539.-850669.0.ysabiau@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 5-7 From: Christine Wright Subject: [h-cost] Elizabethan costume question Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 12:15:38 -0400 Status: RO I'm looking for information about ruffs - I would like to make a ruff and trim it with gold lace, but am unwilling to do so unless there's information/portraits that show gold lace to be used in period to trim a ruff. In all the costume material I have, ruffs (for the nobility) are all trimmed with white lace. Has anyone run across a picture of a ruff trimmed with a metallic lace? Thanks for any help, Ysabiau ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 21 13:24:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA30049 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 13:24:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5LGg5C19405; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 10:42:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5LGg1q07523; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 10:42:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (new-comet.pacifier.com [216.65.150.155]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5LGfhq07397 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 10:41:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip118.124-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.124.118]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g5LGfeV20642 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 09:41:41 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [h-cost] (h-cost): good pictures of extant garments... TIP! Message-ID: <3D12F6E7.5683.534907B@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <5.1.0.14.0.20020621091834.009e6580@sound.net> References: <7C040DB0615@mdx-cf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 09:50:31 -0700 Status: RO > Until I started doing the research for it, I had no > idea how much money my own library spent on shipping costs > to send books out around the country. And salaries for > three full-time people to run it. All for a free service. All so that > our patrons can get the books that we don't have here. Unfortunately, it really depends on the library system as not all of them are free. Yours must be funded better than some. Many that I'm familiar with (fortunately not here in my town) have to pay for the shipping. Also, it depends on whether your library participates in certain programs. If not, then they also have to pay a charge from the library sending the book out. A friend of mine found that it was costing about as much as buying the book in some cases. (She had to pay $25 for one book which I had only paid about $16 on special for the same book.) Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 21 13:28:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA30079 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 13:28:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5LHPHC23520; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 11:25:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5LHP1q00164; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 11:25:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r03.mx.aol.com (imo-r03.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.99]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5LHO3q29640 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 11:24:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo-r03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 6.10.20a41fad (3972) for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 13:23:53 -0400 (EDT) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Message-ID: <10.20a41fad.2a44bb28@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Retro - 1920 patterns To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_10.20a41fad.2a44bb28_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10512 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 13:23:52 EDT Status: RO --part1_10.20a41fad.2a44bb28_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/20/2002 7:28:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time, penny@costumegallery.com writes: > Angela, > > Kim made me a copy of the pattern. I don't think she sell any of her > originals... just make copies of them. I just gave Kim my measurements and > she made my pattern. She told me it takes her about a week. She has a lot > more patterns that are not on the site too, so just ask her. > I get it. I don't need a graded version, so perhaps she'd just make me a copy of that one? I will email, it never hurts to ask. Thanks so much! angela --part1_10.20a41fad.2a44bb28_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/20/2002 7:28:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time, penny@costumegallery.com writes:


Angela,

Kim made me a copy of the pattern.  I don't think she sell any of her originals... just make copies of them.  I just gave Kim my measurements and she made my pattern.  She told me it takes her about a week.  She has a lot more patterns that are not on the site too, so just ask her. 


I get it. I don't need a graded version, so perhaps she'd just make me a copy of that one?  I will email, it never hurts to ask.   Thanks so much!

angela
 --part1_10.20a41fad.2a44bb28_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 21 13:43:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA30190 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 13:43:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5LHd4C24894; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 11:39:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5LHd1q07113; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 11:39:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.92]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5LHc5q06684 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 11:38:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17LSK0-000OsE-0Y; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 18:35:44 +0100 Message-ID: To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: ingridgs@studorg.hiof.no From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Women's headgear, medieval Norway? References: <4.3.1.2.20020619121754.00c79ca0@mail.frys.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1;format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 18:30:07 +0100 Status: RO Ingrid G. Storrř wrote >On Wed, 19 Jun 2002, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: >> >Hi, all! I've recently joined a reenactment group here in Norway that >> >concentrates on the years of the reign of Haakon V Magnusson; 1299-1308. >> >I'm figuring that wool T-tunics with underarm gussets and fairly high >> >necklines are safe enough for clothing, but I'm not entirely certain >> >where to look for sources for headgear. Does anyone know, or have any >> >tips? >> >> At the risk of being thought rude, you could always ask the other women >> members where they got their headgear ideas. They have been doing this for >> longer than you have, and, presumably, do it well enough for the group >> standards. If your headgear looks like theirs, they can't complain it >> isn't right. And it will give them a chance to be helpful, which some >> people like to be. > >Of course I'll ask the other women in the group; I've asked a couple >already. :) But part of my problem is that until fairly recently, this >has been mainly a live steel fighting group, with major focus on armour >and weapons - for men. From what I've gathered, research into women's >clothing hasn't been as extensive within the group. So I thought I'd ask >this knowledgable list if anyone had any ideas - it can't hurt, right? >:) Also, I'm not only concerned with meeting group standards (however >high they may be) - I want to be as authentic as at all possible >based on the available evidence. And considering the number of people on >this list, I figured it just might be possible that someone would have >info that would be new to the group as well. Well, I hoped, at least. :) > >Ingrid Oh my, that sounds familiar! Go ahead and do your research and be as authentic as you can - maybe in time you'll inspire others in the group to extend their interests into the non-combatant areas. Best of luck! Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 21 13:51:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA30225 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 13:51:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5LHmCC25643; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 11:48:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5LHmBq11742; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 11:48:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5LHl1q11127 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 11:47:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.35.247]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GY200373HEA7I@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 10:47:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Plausibility Check on Tuchman In-reply-to: <7c.29bd7b0d.2a448d29@aol.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020621083318.00c38830@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 08:35:45 -0700 Status: RO >"Some of them he had sewn inside the soles of his shoes before leaving >Prague; the rest were rolled up and inserted in place of the bones in his >daughter's corset." > >I don't know much about early 20th century corsets, but would it really be >possible to fit enough papers in boning channels to be worth the effort? I >would think it would have been easier to fold the papers and sew them in >between the corset lining and outer fabric, but what do I know? I think rolled-up paper might work as corset bones, for someone who didn't need much shaping from that corset. I think the papers would survive better rolled up tight than flat. And as for 'worth the effort', it depends what was on the papers. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 21 13:51:29 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA30229 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 13:51:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5LHm4C25624; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 11:48:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5LHm1q11650; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 11:48:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5LHl0q11121 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 11:47:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.35.247]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GY200373HEA7I@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 10:47:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] my "new" sewing machine In-reply-to: <598C14B7F4B@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020621083013.00c77a30@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <200206210220.g5L2KBq06601@net.indra.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 08:32:32 -0700 Status: RO > > Teddy - thank you, thank you, thank you. It was because I > > tour-guided your e-correspondent thru Berkeley today that I found > > this sewing machine - marked $20! My birthday is next month, and > > this is what I'm giving myself. > >But Kayta, it's because you were generous enough to offer your >services as "native-guide" to a costumer who didn't know the >fabric/costume suppliers in the area that you had this wonderful >find. Sounds to me like some 'guardian angel' wanted to reward >you for your generosity with your time. It's all your fault for introducing us. We do many of the same periods, and this could get expensive. At least I don't have to take her to Britex. She says her mother takes her to Britex and buys her stuff there on her birthday... Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 21 13:51:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA30233 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 13:51:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5LHmGC25666; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 11:48:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5LHmFq11782; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 11:48:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5LHl2q11135 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 11:47:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.35.247]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GY200373HEA7I@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 10:47:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Kayta's new sewing machine In-reply-to: X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020621104250.00c89bf0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 10:46:20 -0700 Status: RO >You >might be interested in the ISMACS (International Sewing Machine Antique >Collectors Society)website at http://www.ismacs.net. I think you'll find >lots of things of interest and some helpful information. They have a free >ISMACS email digest which is a friendly group of people all over the world >who love and work on antique and vintage sewing machines. They discuss >anything sewing machine --history, manufacturing, parts and their >availablity, restorations, as well as good buys they've found. ; ) This site was very useful. I found pictures of an earlier model of my make of machine, with pictures of its many attachments. I am e-mailing one of the ISMACS members about getting my own copy the manual for my machine, which the site says is available in reprint. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 21 14:28:19 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA30388 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 14:28:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5LIP5C28972; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 12:25:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5LIP1q00102; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 12:25:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5LIOHq29666 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 12:24:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) id g5LIPhv05644 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 11:25:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200206211825.g5LIPhv05644@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Kayta's new sewing machine In-Reply-To: "from Fairchild, Connie E. at Jun 21, 2002 11:09:47 am" To: h-costume@indra.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL82 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 11:25:43 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO Oh thank you so much for sharing that! My mother, a consummate thrift store shopper, has been collecting antique sewing machines on my behalf (I live in a studio, so they are waiting for me to move) and now I can help her research them! .heather. > **************** > Congratulations on your sewing machine, you made a great purchase. You > might be interested in the ISMACS (International Sewing Machine Antique > Collectors Society)website at http://www.ismacs.net. I think you'll find > lots of things of interest and some helpful information. They have a free > ISMACS email digest which is a friendly group of people all over the world > who love and work on antique and vintage sewing machines. They discuss > anything sewing machine --history, manufacturing, parts and their > availablity, restorations, as well as good buys they've found. ; ) > > Connie E. Fairchild > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 21 17:38:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA31205 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 17:38:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5LLYbC14845; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 15:34:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5LLT1q05615; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 15:29:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5LLSdq05436 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 15:28:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17LVxJ-000OUk-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 22:28:34 +0100 Message-ID: To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume sengle - help needed References: <3D12C17C.75E8EB29@vs-books.de> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1;format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 21:32:28 +0100 Status: RO Robin Netherton wrote > >On Fri, 21 Jun 2002, Torsten [iso-8859-1] Verhülsdonk wrote: > >> Anyway, the whole sentence reads: >> >> "This (a heuke, huk, huke) was clearly a tabard-like garment - as was >> the jagged (dagged) huke of black sengle in Sir John Fastlofe's >> wardrobe in 1459.." > >OK, then apparently you're not working from the 1459 document -- you're >translating something written more recently. That means we don't know if >the original researcher misread the wardrobe account to assume "sengle" >was a fabric. As far as I know, this account has not been published, >though I may be wrong, so we wouldn't know without the original document. > >Does the author of the book you are working on provide any glossary or >footnotes that might illuminate his/her use of the term? > >> The German Textil Museum in Krefeld suggested, that it might mean the >> German "Zendel" which indeed was a kind of silk. > >That would be the "sendal" I referred to earlier. But the English writer >of the document would not have been writing in German, so would have to >have made the error directly from "sendal" to "sengle." > >--Robin Only a guess, without seeing the original , but the translator seems to have mistaken an up-stroke for a down-stroke in dagged/jagged, so it could be the same in send.. to seng.. Jean (Hello, I'm back - had hassle with my ISP, but it seems to be fixed now, hooray!) -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 21 20:48:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA31878 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 20:48:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5M0j3C27098; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 18:45:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5M0j1q20762; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 18:45:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d07.mx.aol.com (imo-d07.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.39]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5M0igq20629 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 18:44:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LLWatts@aol.com by imo-d07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 6.9b.294cce54 (5711) for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 20:44:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aol.com (mow-m09.webmail.aol.com [64.12.184.137]) by air-id04.mx.aol.com (v86_r1.13) with ESMTP id MAILINID44-0621204425; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 20:44:25 -0400 From: LLWatts@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Plausibility Check on Tuchman Message-ID: <610106C8.47257049.0016D037@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 20:44:25 -0400 Status: RO > If you put paper between the lining and outer corset, it will make > crackling paper noise, and could be felt in a search. > > If you roll paper up very tight and put it in the channels, you could > conceivably get a lot of paper out of the country, as there are a lot of > boning channels in a corset, and no one is likely to rip the corset > apart and check the boning. That makes sense. They'd probably be bent up, but that doesn't normally hurt paper. I hadn't thought about the crackling sound. > I assume the book is talking about WWI, when corsets would have been > rather long, which means even more space for paper. If it's > WWII, why > would she be wearing a corset at all? Yes, it's World War I. And thanks for the corset picture link -- I suspect she could have carried blueprints in the boning channels of something like that :) . Leah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 21 22:20:29 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA32060 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 22:20:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5M2G3C03596; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 20:16:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5M2G1q15986; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 20:16:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bigred.unl.edu (bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5M2FVq15837 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 20:15:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (00217146@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.11.5/8.11.5) with ESMTP id g5M2FSh65227 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 21:15:28 -0500 (CDT) From: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] somewhat OT: costuming cars Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 21:15:28 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO well, it's fabric related, and it's old.... Does anybody know anything about (or have any sources for) upholstering vintage cars? A friend of mine just got a nice one (sorry, can't tell you make or model...) with a bit of sun damage and some interior tears. There *must* be books on the subject, and experts, but I have no idea where to start! Emma _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jun 22 00:03:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA32276 for ; Sat, 22 Jun 2002 00:03:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5M403C10318; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 22:00:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5M401q13205; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 22:00:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from crunchy.sound.net (crunchy.sound.net [205.242.194.25]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g5M3x7q13000 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 21:59:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 25286 invoked from network); 22 Jun 2002 03:56:57 -0000 Received: from tnt0-080016.kc.sound.net (HELO oemcomputer.sound.net) (209.153.80.16) by crunchy.sound.net with SMTP; 22 Jun 2002 03:56:57 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20020621224749.009fec80@sound.net> X-Sender: sherylnd@sound.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Sheryl Nance-Durst Subject: Re: [h-cost] (h-cost): good pictures of extant garments... TIP! In-Reply-To: <3D12F6E7.5683.534907B@localhost> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020621091834.009e6580@sound.net> <7C040DB0615@mdx-cf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 22:58:43 -0500 Status: RO Yes, I'm afraid you're right. I'm lucky enough to live in a fairly good-sized city. And my library (fortunately) is willing to spend the money from their budget. (Although, if some Kansas lawmakers cut the education budget like they're trying...that may change.) However, even patrons in our system have to pay a fee if the library who owns the book charges the fee. Although my library absorbs the cost on our end, some libraries cannot afford to do the same. But in some instances it is the only way to view books that are out of print or unavailable in this country. I have had to pay to borrow books that could only be found in 1 or 2 libraries in the country. But it was the only way that I could get to read them. Any system has its flaws, but Inter Library Loan services are still amazing given the constraints and budget restrictions faced by modern libraries. Sheryl Nance-Durst At 09:50 AM 6/21/02 -0700, you wrote: >Unfortunately, it really depends on the library system as not all of >them are free. Yours must be funded better than some. Many that >I'm familiar with (fortunately not here in my town) have to pay for the >shipping. Also, it depends on whether your library participates in >certain programs. If not, then they also have to pay a charge from >the library sending the book out. A friend of mine found that it was >costing about as much as buying the book in some cases. (She >had to pay $25 for one book which I had only paid about $16 on >special for the same book.) > > >Kat > >Kat(June Russell) >kat@grendal.rain.com >Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jun 22 00:12:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA32304 for ; Sat, 22 Jun 2002 00:12:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5M491C10731; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 22:09:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5M491q15609; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 22:09:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from crunchy.sound.net (crunchy.sound.net [205.242.194.25]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g5M48Fq15372 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 22:08:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 25734 invoked from network); 22 Jun 2002 04:06:05 -0000 Received: from tnt0-080016.kc.sound.net (HELO oemcomputer.sound.net) (209.153.80.16) by crunchy.sound.net with SMTP; 22 Jun 2002 04:06:05 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20020621230511.009f8550@sound.net> X-Sender: sherylnd@sound.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Sheryl Nance-Durst Subject: Re: [h-cost] somewhat OT: costuming cars In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 23:07:51 -0500 Status: RO Emma, Just doing a quick search in my library's online catalog produced the following results - Locke, Lee Jordan. Essentials of upholstery & trim for vintage & classic; with a gallery of interiors from the opulent era Lee, John Martin, How to restore auto upholstery Caldwell, Bruce. Auto upholstery & interiors : a do-it-yourself, basic guide to repairing, replacing or customizing automotive interiors Taylor, Don (Donald D.) Automotive upholstery handbook Taylor, Don. Custom auto interiors Can't vouch for what's in them since it's 11 PM and I'm not at work. Sheryl Nance-Durst At 09:15 PM 6/21/02 -0500, you wrote: >well, it's fabric related, and it's old.... > >Does anybody know anything about (or have any sources for) upholstering >vintage cars? A friend of mine just got a nice one (sorry, can't tell you >make or model...) with a bit of sun damage and some interior tears. > >There *must* be books on the subject, and experts, but I have no idea >where to start! > >Emma _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jun 22 00:13:15 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA32309 for ; Sat, 22 Jun 2002 00:13:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5M4A1C10786; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 22:10:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5M4A1q15880; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 22:10:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5M49sq15842 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 22:09:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.35.247]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GY300IQBA8H5O@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 21:09:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] somewhat OT: costuming cars In-reply-to: X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020621210752.00cb85e0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 21:09:46 -0700 Status: RO >well, it's fabric related, and it's old.... And some people costume themselves in matching vintage costumes while driving them. >Does anybody know anything about (or have any sources for) upholstering >vintage cars? A friend of mine just got a nice one (sorry, can't tell you >make or model...) with a bit of sun damage and some interior tears. > >There *must* be books on the subject, and experts, but I have no idea >where to start! Start with looking for old car clubs. Th web might be a good place for that. Old car owners are usually full of good advice, parts sources, etc. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jun 22 00:41:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA32367 for ; Sat, 22 Jun 2002 00:41:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5M4c2C11629; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 22:38:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5M4c0q21708; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 22:38:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.ala.net (mail.ala.net [204.251.239.243]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g5M4bPq21582 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 22:37:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 57622 invoked by uid 0); 22 Jun 2002 04:37:24 -0000 Received: from nas2-206-107-27-122.dlv.ala.net (HELO jchancey) (206.107.27.122) by mail.ala.net with SMTP; 22 Jun 2002 04:37:24 -0000 Message-ID: <001401c21995$959fe220$4574fea9@jchancey> From: "Jennie Chancey" To: References: <000b01c1f0c5$224c16c0$9da98218@duck> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [h-cost] Going off-list for a while.... Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 23:36:16 -0300 Status: RO I've got a baby due in seven weeks or so, and I'm cutting back on my internet activity just a bit. I'll still be answering e-mail and working on new patterns and such. If anyone needs to reach me, the best way to do so is through jenniec@sensibility.com. Happy discussing! Hope to be back in late August! Cheers, Jennie Chancey - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Sense and Sensibility Clothing and Patterns http://www.sensibility.com winsome clothing with an old-fashioned appeal _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jun 22 01:40:16 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA32636 for ; Sat, 22 Jun 2002 01:40:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5M5b2C13270; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 23:37:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5M5b1q03939; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 23:37:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f153.pav2.hotmail.com [64.4.37.153]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5M5aiq03886 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 23:36:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 22:36:39 -0700 Received: from 12.224.202.183 by pv2fd.pav2.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 22 Jun 2002 05:36:34 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.224.202.183] From: "Jennifer Sena" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] my "new" sewing machine Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Jun 2002 05:36:39.0163 (UTC) FILETIME=[C8152CB0:01C219AE] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 22:36:34 -0700 Status: RO > >Question 1 - is the current wood base original to the machine, or was it >added for the electrification? If this base was added later, what might >the original base have looked like? My husband bought me a machine from a boyscouts yard sale that when I tracked down the unusual name on the front (Ethridge I believe)I found had stopped being made in about the 1925 range. It came in a wooden carrying case with the accessories space built into the wood. The name was the original owner of a sewing machine company who sold his business in 1920 and within a few years they had stopped even using his name as a token. It has all the original electric parts, and was being used up until just before I got it!! It doesn't mean all of your parts are original, but it does prove they were made that way in the 20's. Jennifer Sena Distant Designs http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!! _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jun 22 05:21:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA28782 for ; Sat, 22 Jun 2002 05:21:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5M9I7C18912; Sat, 22 Jun 2002 03:18:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5M9I0q11909; Sat, 22 Jun 2002 03:18:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp4.ihug.co.nz (smtp4.ihug.co.nz [203.109.252.5]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5M9Hbq10784 for ; Sat, 22 Jun 2002 03:17:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p581-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.194.73] by smtp4.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1 (Debian)) id 17Lh1N-0000z3-00; Sat, 22 Jun 2002 21:17:30 +1200 Message-ID: <004b01c219cd$a2cc4000$49c2adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] three new costumes at my site:) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 21:17:29 +1200 Status: RO My personal costuming site that is;) http://recital.tripod.com/costume/moulinpink.htm finally I have photos of my recreation of the Pink Diamonds costume from Moulin Rouge. Rather ingenious construction of the corset actually:) The bodice is shaped, but there are no seams visible at the front;) http://recital.tripod.com/costume/elizabeth.htm Recreation of the coronation gown as appeared in the movie Elizabeth. I just happened to like the tight sleeves and curved front, i don't care how authentic it is;) http://recital.tripod.com/costume/16thunderwear.htm Corset and chemise as worn on my body:) The corset is shaped slightly over the bust. Looks similar in shape to many german garments. Again, I don't care that it doesn't look like it's stepped out of time;) I've spent the entire day getting the photos taken, developed and scanned as well as making the pages. needless to say I'm telling *everyone* I know about this;) michaela note how my costume site is pink as a lamington;) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jun 22 11:43:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA30245 for ; Sat, 22 Jun 2002 11:43:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5MFZ7C28475; Sat, 22 Jun 2002 09:35:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5MFZ1q27044; Sat, 22 Jun 2002 09:35:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13306.mail.yahoo.com (web13306.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.42]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g5MFY9q26817 for ; Sat, 22 Jun 2002 09:34:09 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020622153408.6854.qmail@web13306.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13306.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 22 Jun 2002 16:34:08 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] three new costumes at my site:) To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <004b01c219cd$a2cc4000$49c2adcb@michaela> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 16:34:08 +0100 (BST) Status: RO Very very VERY lovely, Michaela! I really do so very much love to see finished costumes or even works in progress. Thanks for sharing. Nicole --- michaela wrote: > My personal costuming site that is;) > > http://recital.tripod.com/costume/moulinpink.htm > finally I have photos of my recreation of the Pink Diamonds costume from > Moulin Rouge. Rather ingenious construction of the corset actually:) The > bodice is shaped, but there are no seams visible at the front;) > > http://recital.tripod.com/costume/elizabeth.htm > Recreation of the coronation gown as appeared in the movie Elizabeth. I just > happened to like the tight sleeves and curved front, i don't care how > authentic it is;) > > http://recital.tripod.com/costume/16thunderwear.htm > Corset and chemise as worn on my body:) The corset is shaped slightly over > the bust. Looks similar in shape to many german garments. Again, I don't > care that it doesn't look like it's stepped out of time;) > > I've spent the entire day getting the photos taken, developed and scanned as > well as making the pages. needless to say I'm telling *everyone* I know > about this;) > > michaela > note how my costume site is pink as a lamington;) > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jun 22 11:53:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA30286 for ; Sat, 22 Jun 2002 11:53:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5MFi2C28738; Sat, 22 Jun 2002 09:44:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5MFi1q28916; Sat, 22 Jun 2002 09:44:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.61]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5MFhFq28745 for ; Sat, 22 Jun 2002 09:43:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-164-48-38.c3-0.gth-ubr1.lnh-gth.md.cable.rcn.com ([216.164.48.38] helo=megan2) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with smtp (Exim 3.35 #5) id 17Ln2g-0006G8-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 22 Jun 2002 11:43:14 -0400 From: "Megan M." To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] RE: Kayta's new sewing machine Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20020621104250.00c89bf0@mail.frys.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 11:50:54 -0400 Status: RO ARe you also on treadon? And/or vintage singers? -Megan -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On Behalf Of Carolyn Kayta Barrows Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 1:46 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Kayta's new sewing machine >You >might be interested in the ISMACS (International Sewing Machine Antique >Collectors Society)website at http://www.ismacs.net. I think you'll find >lots of things of interest and some helpful information. They have a free >ISMACS email digest which is a friendly group of people all over the world >who love and work on antique and vintage sewing machines. They discuss >anything sewing machine --history, manufacturing, parts and their >availablity, restorations, as well as good buys they've found. ; ) This site was very useful. I found pictures of an earlier model of my make of machine, with pictures of its many attachments. I am e-mailing one of the ISMACS members about getting my own copy the manual for my machine, which the site says is available in reprint. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jun 22 15:25:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA30890 for ; Sat, 22 Jun 2002 15:25:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5MJK8C08329; Sat, 22 Jun 2002 13:20:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5MJK1q20506; Sat, 22 Jun 2002 13:20:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from tisch.mail.mindspring.net (tisch.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.157]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5MJJoq20451 for ; Sat, 22 Jun 2002 13:19:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ar-002nvlvegp265.dialsprint.net ([206.133.195.67] helo=[0019381808]) by tisch.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17LqQE-0002Bh-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 22 Jun 2002 15:19:46 -0400 From: "Katherine" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [h-cost] three new costumes at my site:) Message-ID: <3D146C4F.32709.1A2332@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <004b01c219cd$a2cc4000$49c2adcb@michaela> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: kcg@sprynet.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 12:23:43 -0700 Status: RO Your costumes are beautiful!!! I have a question about the Moulin Rouge dress. Could you please explain the "ingenious construction" of the corset? I have vague plans in my mind to do something like this one day (and actually some fabric to go along with these plans!) and would love to know how you did it :) Thanks, Katherine On 22 Jun 2002, at 21:17, michaela wrote: > My personal costuming site that is;) > > http://recital.tripod.com/costume/moulinpink.htm > finally I have photos of my recreation of the Pink Diamonds costume from > Moulin Rouge. Rather ingenious construction of the corset actually:) The > bodice is shaped, but there are no seams visible at the front;) > Katherine "I really think that artists to-day try to see how far they can make fun of the public without its revolting." Marie, Queen of Roumania My Dress Site http://www.koshka-the-cat.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jun 22 18:37:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA31578 for ; Sat, 22 Jun 2002 18:37:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5MMYGC16104; Sat, 22 Jun 2002 16:34:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5MMY5q02893; Sat, 22 Jun 2002 16:34:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pcp-2.ihug.co.nz (pcp-2.ihug.co.nz [203.109.252.66]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5MMIcq29088 for ; Sat, 22 Jun 2002 16:19:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p146-nas7.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.217.146] by pcp-2.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1 (Debian)) id 17Lt1C-000429-00; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 10:06:06 +1200 Message-ID: <001901c21a39$0588baa0$92d9adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: <3D146C4F.32709.1A2332@localhost> Subject: Re: [h-cost] three new costumes at my site:) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 10:06:11 +1200 Status: RO So you're on this list too:) Yay:) > I have a question about the Moulin Rouge dress. Could you please > explain the "ingenious construction" of the corset? I have vague plans > in my mind to do something like this one day (and actually some fabric > to go along with these plans!) and would love to know how you did it :) When I say there are five layers to the corset, two of which are knit fabrics it might be a clue;) yeah the bodice is actually shaped yet the front has no seams visible. I figured they must have used a solid structure with shaping and seams then a stretch fabric (in the case of the original I think stretch satin) or fabric on the bias to avoid seams. So I used two layers of cotton fabric with channels for some very light boning, the front was darted to really go in at the waist and curve over the belly (this is mitigated by other factors like my own body which is actually hourglass shaped but fights this). Then I ironed two thin layers of that non woven interfacing stuff to make the whole thing firm. Now comes the clever part;). I used stretch iron on interfacing and ironed it over the sewn up front panel, stretching and ironing as I went to hide the darts. I covered the back as well. Then hand basted the pink knit over and the wide netting over the top. That was only half as wide as the front so I had to invisbly match up the net centre front. It's been a very long progress figuring out how to do this costrume, then figuring out how *I* could make it;) michaela > > http://recital.tripod.com/costume/moulinpink.htm > > finally I have photos of my recreation of the Pink Diamonds costume from > > Moulin Rouge. Rather ingenious construction of the corset actually:) The > > bodice is shaped, but there are no seams visible at the front;) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jun 22 22:14:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA32280 for ; Sat, 22 Jun 2002 22:14:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5N2BGC24389; Sat, 22 Jun 2002 20:11:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5N2BBq17457; Sat, 22 Jun 2002 20:11:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f59.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.59]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5N2ACq17238 for ; Sat, 22 Jun 2002 20:10:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 22 Jun 2002 19:10:03 -0700 Received: from 65.65.98.133 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 02:10:03 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.65.98.133] From: "Mary Temple" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] three new costumes at my site:) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Jun 2002 02:10:03.0760 (UTC) FILETIME=[16428700:01C21A5B] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 02:10:03 +0000 Status: RO Hi Michaela - I've been trying to access the links you posted for almost a day now, and all I keep getting is this message - The Tripod page you are trying to reach has exceeded its hourly bandwidth limit. The site will be available again in 1 hour! :( Mary/Katerine >My personal costuming site that is;) > >http://recital.tripod.com/costume/moulinpink.htm >finally I have photos of my recreation of the Pink Diamonds costume from >Moulin Rouge. Rather ingenious construction of the corset actually:) The >bodice is shaped, but there are no seams visible at the front;) > >http://recital.tripod.com/costume/elizabeth.htm >Recreation of the coronation gown as appeared in the movie Elizabeth. I >just >happened to like the tight sleeves and curved front, i don't care how >authentic it is;) > >http://recital.tripod.com/costume/16thunderwear.htm >Corset and chemise as worn on my body:) The corset is shaped slightly over >the bust. Looks similar in shape to many german garments. Again, I don't >care that it doesn't look like it's stepped out of time;) > >I've spent the entire day getting the photos taken, developed and scanned >as >well as making the pages. needless to say I'm telling *everyone* I know >about this;) > >michaela >note how my costume site is pink as a lamington;) > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jun 22 22:32:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA32344 for ; Sat, 22 Jun 2002 22:32:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5N2TDC25230; Sat, 22 Jun 2002 20:29:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5N2T5q21373; Sat, 22 Jun 2002 20:29:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5N2Sbq21236 for ; Sat, 22 Jun 2002 20:28:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup-63.214.102.235.dial1.boston1.level3.net ([63.214.102.235]) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17Lx7A-0007RZ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 22 Jun 2002 19:28:33 -0700 X-Sender: sheilabb@mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: sheilabb@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [h-cost] three new costumes at my site:) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 22:27:14 -0400 Status: RO Mary/Katerine wrote; >I've been trying to access the links you posted for almost a day now, and >all I keep getting is this message - > >The Tripod page you are trying to reach has exceeded its hourly bandwidth >limit. The site will be available again in 1 hour! > I got the same thing 3 times... '-(( Sheila B >>My personal costuming site that is;) >> >>http://recital.tripod.com/costume/moulinpink.htm >> >>http://recital.tripod.com/costume/elizabeth.htm >> >>http://recital.tripod.com/costume/16thunderwear.htm _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jun 22 23:32:29 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA32576 for ; Sat, 22 Jun 2002 23:32:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5N3R2C27293; Sat, 22 Jun 2002 21:27:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5N3R1E03051; Sat, 22 Jun 2002 21:27:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r08.mx.aol.com (imo-r08.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.104]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5N3QfE02968 for ; Sat, 22 Jun 2002 21:26:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Azelana@aol.com by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 7.70.1e9dc15e (2614) for ; Sat, 22 Jun 2002 23:26:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Azelana@aol.com Message-ID: <70.1e9dc15e.2a4699e8@aol.com> To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 124 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Boned 'stomacher' in Bueckelaer? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 23:26:32 EDT Status: RO It looks boned to me, too -- especially because it arches. In practical application, I've found the fabric curls outward under the weight of the breasts if it's arched without boning. I've seen this style in line drawings, too. I admit I've never figured out how it's kept in place but still allows for the dress lacing to be loosened. Anyone know? --Gillian _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jun 22 23:56:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA32642 for ; Sat, 22 Jun 2002 23:56:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5N3rfC28268; Sat, 22 Jun 2002 21:53:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5N3reE08189; Sat, 22 Jun 2002 21:53:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pcp-2.ihug.co.nz (pcp-2.ihug.co.nz [203.109.252.66]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5N3mqE07303 for ; Sat, 22 Jun 2002 21:48:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p40-nas11.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.213.40] by pcp-2.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1 (Debian)) id 17LyMs-0004Fm-00; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 15:48:50 +1200 Message-ID: <004b01c21a68$e6980a80$92d9adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: <20020622153408.6854.qmail@web13306.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] three new costumes at my site:) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 15:48:55 +1200 Status: RO OK, seeing as it's too much for tripod: I'm uploading the pages to my ihug site some of the pop up images might be too big for the image due to my recent file changing so take no note of how big the page says the images are. I just reduced all but a couple to under 40K: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~thebruce/16thunderwear.htm http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~thebruce/elizabeth.htm http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~thebruce/moulinpink.htm OK, so now to tell others... michaela _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jun 23 03:17:10 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA01200 for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 03:17:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5N796C04324; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 01:09:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5N790E13691; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 01:09:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f195.law12.hotmail.com [64.4.19.195]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5N78iE13657 for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 01:08:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 00:08:38 -0700 Received: from 63.12.14.160 by lw12fd.law12.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 07:08:37 GMT X-Originating-IP: [63.12.14.160] From: "Rebecca Anderson" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] Elizabethan costume question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Jun 2002 07:08:38.0040 (UTC) FILETIME=[CC00B980:01C21A84] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 16:38:37 +0930 Status: RO
Hello
Yes, I have seen a picture with a woman wearing a gold lace ruff. It's Lady Aston c. 1627, by a Flemish artist, Marcus Geeraerts. It's in the Art Gallery of South Australia. I haven't been able to find a copy of it on the web:-(
Rebecca.

 

 

I'm looking for information about ruffs - I would like to make a ruff and
trim it with gold lace, but am unwilling to do so unless there's
information/portraits that show gold lace to be used in period to trim a
ruff.  In all the costume material I have, ruffs (for the nobility) are
all trimmed with white lace.  Has anyone run across a picture of a ruff
trimmed with a metallic lace?
Thanks for any help,
Ysabiau
 
 

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_______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jun 23 10:55:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03136 for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 10:55:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5NEqHC14849; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 08:52:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5NEq1E26333; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 08:52:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f14.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.14]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5NEpKE26203 for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 08:51:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 07:51:11 -0700 Received: from 65.67.60.90 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 14:51:11 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.67.60.90] From: "Mary Temple" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] three new costumes at my site:) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Jun 2002 14:51:11.0655 (UTC) FILETIME=[6A724B70:01C21AC5] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 14:51:11 +0000 Status: RO Sheila - I was finally able to view them today. Keep trying - they're great!! :) Mary/Katerine >Mary/Katerine wrote; > > >I've been trying to access the links you posted for almost a day now, and > >all I keep getting is this message - > > > >The Tripod page you are trying to reach has exceeded its hourly bandwidth > >limit. The site will be available again in 1 hour! > > > > >I got the same thing 3 times... >'-(( > >Sheila B > > > >>My personal costuming site that is;) > >> > >>http://recital.tripod.com/costume/moulinpink.htm > >> > >>http://recital.tripod.com/costume/elizabeth.htm > >> > >>http://recital.tripod.com/costume/16thunderwear.htm > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jun 23 13:11:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA07539 for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 13:11:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5NH6OC19008; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 11:06:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5NH60E21075; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 11:06:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from blount.mail.mindspring.net (blount.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.226]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5NH51E20919 for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 11:05:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ar-006nvlvegp329.dialsprint.net ([206.133.210.107] helo=[0019381808]) by blount.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17MAnI-0002de-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 13:04:56 -0400 From: "Katherine" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [h-cost] three new costumes at my site:) Message-ID: <3D159E37.3488.1DBF5B@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <001901c21a39$0588baa0$92d9adcb@michaela> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: kcg@sprynet.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 10:08:55 -0700 Status: RO On 23 Jun 2002, at 10:06, michaela wrote: > So you're on this list too:) Yay:) Yes, and very happy to be here :) > Could you please > > explain the "ingenious construction" of the corset? > > When I say there are five layers to the corset, two of which are knit > fabrics it might be a clue;) Very big clue, actually... You're right, a very ingenious construction, and one that looks quite doable! Thanks, Katherine > > yeah the bodice is actually shaped yet the front has no seams visible. I > figured they must have used a solid structure with shaping and seams then a > stretch fabric (in the case of the original I think stretch satin) or > fabric on the bias to avoid seams. Katherine "I really think that artists to-day try to see how far they can make fun of the public without its revolting." Marie, Queen of Roumania My Dress Site http://www.koshka-the-cat.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jun 23 14:27:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA07770 for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 14:27:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5NIN4C21719; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 12:23:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5NIN0E05727; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 12:23:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f45.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.45]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5NIMgE05652 for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 12:22:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 11:22:36 -0700 Received: from 24.55.6.126 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 18:22:36 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.55.6.126] From: "Maggie Secara" To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@net.indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] Elizabethan costume question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_2b86_5b6b_66c1" Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Jun 2002 18:22:36.0993 (UTC) FILETIME=[F37F4310:01C21AE2] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 11:22:36 -0700 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_2b86_5b6b_66c1 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Look at this one. Lettice (Lettyce) Knollys, Countess of Essex http://tudorhistory.org/people/lettice/lettice.jpg This kind of detail is always hard to see on-line. If you can find this one in a book, you'll get a clearer view. Among other places it's in _All the Queen's Men_ by Neville Williams. I know there are more, but this one sprang to mind. MaggiRos >From: "Rebecca Anderson" >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: h-costume@net.indra.com >Subject: RE: [h-cost] Elizabethan costume question >Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 16:38:37 +0930 > _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------=_NextPart_000_2b86_5b6b_66c1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 >From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun, 23 Jun 2002 00:11:43 -0700 Received: from [204.144.142.2] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id MHotMailBEDEBF6400234004321ECC908E02C37A0; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 00:10:33 -0700 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5N79WC04348; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 01:09:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5N79LE13750; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 01:09:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f195.law12.hotmail.com [64.4.19.195]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5N78iE13657 for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 01:08:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 00:08:38 -0700 Received: from 63.12.14.160 by lw12fd.law12.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 07:08:37 GMT X-Originating-IP: [63.12.14.160] From: "Rebecca Anderson" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] Elizabethan costume question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Jun 2002 07:08:38.0040 (UTC) FILETIME=[CC00B980:01C21A84] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 16:38:37 +0930
Hello
Yes, I have seen a picture with a woman wearing a gold lace ruff. It's Lady Aston c. 1627, by a Flemish artist, Marcus Geeraerts. It's in the Art Gallery of South Australia. I haven't been able to find a copy of it on the web:-(
Rebecca.

 

 

I'm looking for information about ruffs - I would like to make a ruff and
trim it with gold lace, but am unwilling to do so unless there's
information/portraits that show gold lace to be used in period to trim a
ruff.  In all the costume material I have, ruffs (for the nobility) are
all trimmed with white lace.  Has anyone run across a picture of a ruff
trimmed with a metallic lace?
Thanks for any help,
Ysabiau
 
 

MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: Click Here
_______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ------=_NextPart_000_2b86_5b6b_66c1-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jun 23 14:27:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA07774 for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 14:27:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5NINQC21737; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 12:23:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5NINPE05802; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 12:23:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f45.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.45]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5NIMgE05651 for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 12:22:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 11:22:36 -0700 Received: from 24.55.6.126 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 18:22:36 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.55.6.126] From: "Maggie Secara" To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@net.indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] Elizabethan costume question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_2b86_5b6b_66c1" Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Jun 2002 18:22:36.0993 (UTC) FILETIME=[F37F4310:01C21AE2] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 11:22:36 -0700 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_2b86_5b6b_66c1 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Look at this one. Lettice (Lettyce) Knollys, Countess of Essex http://tudorhistory.org/people/lettice/lettice.jpg This kind of detail is always hard to see on-line. If you can find this one in a book, you'll get a clearer view. Among other places it's in _All the Queen's Men_ by Neville Williams. I know there are more, but this one sprang to mind. MaggiRos >From: "Rebecca Anderson" >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: h-costume@net.indra.com >Subject: RE: [h-cost] Elizabethan costume question >Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 16:38:37 +0930 > _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------=_NextPart_000_2b86_5b6b_66c1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 >From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun, 23 Jun 2002 00:11:43 -0700 Received: from [204.144.142.2] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id MHotMailBEDEBF6400234004321ECC908E02C37A0; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 00:10:33 -0700 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5N79WC04348; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 01:09:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5N79LE13750; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 01:09:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f195.law12.hotmail.com [64.4.19.195]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5N78iE13657 for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 01:08:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 00:08:38 -0700 Received: from 63.12.14.160 by lw12fd.law12.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 07:08:37 GMT X-Originating-IP: [63.12.14.160] From: "Rebecca Anderson" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] Elizabethan costume question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Jun 2002 07:08:38.0040 (UTC) FILETIME=[CC00B980:01C21A84] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 16:38:37 +0930
Hello
Yes, I have seen a picture with a woman wearing a gold lace ruff. It's Lady Aston c. 1627, by a Flemish artist, Marcus Geeraerts. It's in the Art Gallery of South Australia. I haven't been able to find a copy of it on the web:-(
Rebecca.

 

 

I'm looking for information about ruffs - I would like to make a ruff and
trim it with gold lace, but am unwilling to do so unless there's
information/portraits that show gold lace to be used in period to trim a
ruff.  In all the costume material I have, ruffs (for the nobility) are
all trimmed with white lace.  Has anyone run across a picture of a ruff
trimmed with a metallic lace?
Thanks for any help,
Ysabiau
 
 

MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: Click Here
_______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ------=_NextPart_000_2b86_5b6b_66c1-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jun 23 14:32:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA07790 for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 14:32:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5NIT3C21998; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 12:29:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5NIT1E06959; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 12:29:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5NIS6E06785 for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 12:28:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from C59303A ([12.238.186.197]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020623182800.UEBU11426.rwcrmhc51.attbi.com@C59303A> for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 18:28:00 +0000 Message-ID: <023201c21ae3$c20aa0d0$c5baee0c@mckiny1.tx.home.com> From: "Chiara" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan costume question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 13:28:16 -0500 Status: RO Attachments to any mailing list is very dangerous. Please stop sending them and instead point us to a url where we can look at it. If it is an email then copy and paste what you are referring to instead of attaching. It is very difficult to sit here and decide to open any one's emails when they come in with an unexpected attachments. List admin, is there anyway to block attachments? Sincerely, Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio Steppes, Ansteorra `°ş¤ř,¸¸,ř¤ş°` _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jun 23 14:39:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA07803 for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 14:39:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5NIa3C22335; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 12:36:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5NIa0E08349; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 12:36:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) id g5NIZHd08229 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 12:35:17 -0600 (MDT) From: Elizabeth Lear To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: attachments (was Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan costume question) Message-ID: <20020623123517.I22790@net.indra.com> References: <023201c21ae3$c20aa0d0$c5baee0c@mckiny1.tx.home.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <023201c21ae3$c20aa0d0$c5baee0c@mckiny1.tx.home.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 12:35:17 -0600 Status: RO On Sun, Jun 23, 2002 at 01:28:16PM -0500, Chiara wrote: > Attachments to any mailing list is very dangerous. Please stop sending them > and instead point us to a url where we can look at it. If it is an email > then copy and paste what you are referring to instead of attaching. It is > very difficult to sit here and decide to open any one's emails when they > come in with an unexpected attachments. > > List admin, is there anyway to block attachments? I can't block attachments outright. I simply limit the size of messages allowed through to the list, which generally prevents problems because most files exceed the limit. But the list posting guidelines have for years specifically requested people not send photos or other large files in email, but instead point people to them in the manner you've outlined. ...eliz _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jun 23 20:13:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA08885 for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 20:13:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5O0A7C04752; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 18:10:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5O0A0E17814; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 18:10:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.compassnet.com.au ([203.26.180.18]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5O09YE17736 for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 18:09:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from glendaii ([203.26.180.170]) by mail.compassnet.com.au (8.11.0/8.8.7) with SMTP id g5O07V729566 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2002 10:07:31 +1000 Message-ID: <069501c21b13$1df94840$eaf4fea9@glendaii> From: "Glenda Robinson" To: "Historical Costume" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [h-cost] Fw: Viking Beads Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 10:07:19 +1000 Status: RO Thought this would be of interest to some. Glenda. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fr"jel Gotlandica Viking Re-enactment Society." > For those interested in things Viking Associate Professor Dan Carlsson is currently producing a CD with high > quality close up pictures of the Viking beads from the Frojel Harbour Excavation, there are digital photos of > almost 300 beads everything from limesone and amber to gold beads. The CD will cost $10.00US. ea. > I've seen a preview of a few of the beads and it looks well worth it so I shall be putting in an order for one. > Cheers > Sandy > > Fr"jel Gotlandica Viking Re-enactment Society. > http://www.frojel.com/ > frojel@frojel.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jun 23 21:05:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA09007 for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 21:05:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5O137C06569; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 19:03:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5O131E28126; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 19:03:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt1.ihug.co.nz (grunt1.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.41]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5O12uE28096 for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 19:02:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p699-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.194.191] by grunt1.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 17MIFl-0004D7-00; Mon, 24 Jun 2002 13:02:49 +1200 Message-ID: <000d01c21b1a$de8d3150$bfc2adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] three new costumes at my site:) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 13:02:51 +1200 Status: RO > I was finally able to view them today. Keep trying - they're great!! Thanks, but please don't keep trying the tripod one:). It's down again today. Which is incredibly flattering, but it means I cannot ftp to it myself;) I've posted a note saying I've got the new pages over at my ihug site: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~thebruce/16thunderwear.htm http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~thebruce/elizabeth.htm http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~thebruce/moulinpink.htm So hopefully that'll ease the flow. I'm absolutely blown away by the response. 68.3M of bandwidth used yesterday. So hopefully some people will be able to see them at my ihug page. A great big thank you to those looking at them:). I have been in fairly constant pain while sewing the costumes and even now I'm fighting through a flare of RA. It means a lot that that effort was not wasted:) michaela looking into buying her own site and space.. but going to ask if the unlimited data transfer is really unlimited;) And if ther is some way to stop direct linking to images:) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jun 23 21:21:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA09055 for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 21:21:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5O1I1C07085; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 19:18:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5O1I0E01198; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 19:18:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.61]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5O1HxE01190 for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 19:17:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 66-44-6-211.s1735.apx1.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com ([66.44.6.211] helo=oldwaylane.net) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #5) id 17MIUQ-0001uK-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 21:17:58 -0400 Message-ID: <3D1674A4.1040107@oldwaylane.net> From: Judy Mitchell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:0.9.3) Gecko/20010801 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fw: Viking Beads References: <069501c21b13$1df94840$eaf4fea9@glendaii> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: judymitch@oldwaylane.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 21:23:48 -0400 Status: RO Ooh, Glenda- Is it ready? Is he taking orders now?? I know when I ordered our Gotland brooches hementioned that he was working on it. I know some of us definately want it. $10 is a steal! -Judy Mitchell > Thought this would be of interest to some. > > Glenda. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Fr"jel Gotlandica Viking Re-enactment Society." > > >>For those interested in things Viking Associate Professor Dan Carlsson is >> > currently producing a CD with high > >>quality close up pictures of the Viking beads from the Frojel Harbour >> > Excavation, there are digital photos of > >>almost 300 beads everything from limesone and amber to gold beads. The CD >> > will cost $10.00US. ea. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jun 23 23:01:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA09306 for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 23:01:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5O2v3C10555; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 20:57:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5O2v1E20889; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 20:57:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m24.jersey.juno.com (m24.jersey.juno.com [64.136.22.87]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5O2u6E20712 for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 20:56:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"6+EQmPyi7QIwbF+RNYxk3yAgPszvzWR+L6BWhZ3iaZ4ijlB6RASc3Q=="> Received: (from ysabiau@juno.com) by m24.jersey.juno.com (jqueuemail) id G52PR2BZ; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 22:55:13 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan costume question Message-ID: <20020623.225642.-151377.3.ysabiau@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=--__JNP_000_79ca.6f4a.526c X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 8-6,7-10,12-13,17-35,37-32767 From: Christine Wright Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 22:56:40 -0400 Status: RO This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ----__JNP_000_79ca.6f4a.526c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks very much - that gives me a portrait name to look for! -Ysabiau On Sun, 23 Jun 2002 16:38:37 +0930 "Rebecca Anderson" writes: Hello Yes, I have seen a picture with a woman wearing a gold lace ruff. It's Lady Aston c. 1627, by a Flemish artist, Marcus Geeraerts. It's in the Art Gallery of South Australia. I haven't been able to find a copy of it on the web:-( Rebecca. I'm looking for information about ruffs - I would like to make a ruff and trim it with gold lace, but am unwilling to do so unless there's information/portraits that show gold lace to be used in period to trim a ruff. In all the costume material I have, ruffs (for the nobility) are all trimmed with white lace. Has anyone run across a picture of a ruff trimmed with a metallic lace? Thanks for any help, Ysabiau MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: Click Here _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ----__JNP_000_79ca.6f4a.526c Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks very much - that gives me a portrait name to look for!
 
-Ysabiau
 
On Sun, 23 Jun 2002 16:38:37 +0930 "Rebecca Anderson" <lady_adele@hotmail.com>=20 writes:
Hello
Yes, I have seen a picture with a woman wearing a gold lace ruff. It= 's=20 Lady Aston c. 1627, by a Flemish artist, Marcus Geeraerts. It's in the = Art=20 Gallery of South Australia. I haven't been able to find a copy of it on = the=20 web:-(
Rebecca.

 

 

I'm looking for information about ruffs - I would like to make a = ruff=20 and
trim it with gold lace, but am unwilling to do so unless=20 there's
information/portraits that show gold lace to be used in period= to=20 trim a
ruff.  In all the costume material I have, ruffs (for the= =20 nobility) are
all trimmed with white lace.  Has anyone run across= a=20 picture of a ruff
trimmed with a metallic lace?
Thanks for any help,
Ysabiau
 
 

MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: Click=20 Here
_______________________________________________ h-costume = mailing=20 list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-= costume=20
 
----__JNP_000_79ca.6f4a.526c-- ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 24 20:40:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA01757 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2002 20:40:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5P0KWC07523; Mon, 24 Jun 2002 18:20:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5P0KNE14508; Mon, 24 Jun 2002 18:20:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r08.mx.aol.com (imo-r08.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.104]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5P0ENE12555 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2002 18:14:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Azelana@aol.com by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 7.ff.19bcc061 (4586) for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2002 20:14:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Azelana@aol.com Message-ID: To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 124 Subject: [h-cost] Viking Beads Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 20:14:12 EDT Status: RO This came over another list I'm on. It doesn't mention whether or not it discusses what they were strung on, but who knows? > For those interested in things Viking, Associate Professor Dan > Carlsson is currently producing a CD with high quality close up > pictures of the Viking beads from the Frojel Harbour > Excavation, There are digital photos of almost 300 beads > everything from limesone and amber to gold beads. The CD will > cost $10.00 US. ea. > I am informed the current contact info is: > Associate Professor Dan Carlsson > Gotland University > Centre for Baltic Studies > 621 67 Visby, Sweden > Tel. +46-498-299829 > Fax. +46-498-299892 > (The e-mail - looked up on the net - seems to be "dan@hgo.se",) --Gillian _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 24 20:59:19 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA01816 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2002 20:59:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5P0e1C08556; Mon, 24 Jun 2002 18:40:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5P0e0E20869; Mon, 24 Jun 2002 18:40:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d07.mx.aol.com (imo-d07.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.39]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5P0cCE20342 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2002 18:38:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Azelana@aol.com by imo-d07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 7.d1.1a59006f (4586) for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2002 20:36:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Azelana@aol.com Message-ID: To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 124 Subject: [h-cost] historic "sunglasses" for Renaissance faires Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 20:36:48 EDT Status: RO A while ago, some of you mentioned having light-sensitive eyes or even being on meds which can damage the eyes in sunlight... The following question and answer was just posted to my SCA barony's list, and I thought it might help a few of you trying to come up with more historical-looking alternatives to go with your costumes. QUESTION: >Does anyone know if sunglasses >were ever period [approx 1000AD-1600AD]? ANSWER: >Some people >did wear sunglasses -- the Inuit wore 'slit' glasses to protect them >from snowblindness, Asian judges wore smoked glasses (I believe lenses >coated with oil and baked) to hide their reactions from the people in >court, and the Vikings were supposed to wear glasses of amber to protect >from glare on the sea or the snow. There are also the "punched glasses" >(not glass at all) that people like Ajax wear. [snippage] >Commerical sunglasses seem to have been >invented in 1752 by James Ayscough, who felt that clear lenses created a >glare which was bad for the eye. >[answered by] Yevsha --Gillian _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jun 24 21:29:10 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA01883 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2002 21:29:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5P1A1C10082; Mon, 24 Jun 2002 19:10:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5P1A0E00328; Mon, 24 Jun 2002 19:10:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grape.dcsi.net.au (grape.dcsi.net.au [203.22.132.9]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5P18PE29775 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2002 19:08:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sandy (ppp-385.dialup.war.dcsi.net.au [203.55.67.131]) by grape.dcsi.net.au (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id g5P18KqQ010716 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 11:08:22 +1000 Message-Id: <200206250108.g5P18KqQ010716@grape.dcsi.net.au> From: "Frojel Gotlandica" To: "h-costume@indra.com" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail 2000 Standard (2.20.2380) For Windows 2000 (5.0.2195;2) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_5153984=_=_=_" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Viking Beads X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Frojel Gotlandica" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 11:08:20 +1000 Status: RO --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_5153984=_=_=_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, 24 Jun 2002 20:14:12 EDT, Azelana@aol.com wrote: > This came over another list I'm on. It doesn't mention whether or = not it >discusses what they were strung on, but who knows? Perhaps this will help. I shall probably order a batch of them for the p= eople in Australia so we can save a bit on postage, probably be cheaper to mail them round the country from here= than to get individual ones from Sweden, if you like I can ask if there is any information on how they we= re strung and if that will be included in the CD. The web site for ordering will be up in two weeks, I just hea= rd about it early and was sent a couple of sample pics. great detail. Fr=94jel Gotlandica Viking Re-enactment Society. http://www.frojel.com/ frojel@frojel.com --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_5153984=_=_=_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, 24 Jun 2002 20:14:12 EDT, Azelana@aol= .com wrote:
> This came over another list I'm on. It doesn't mention whether = or not it
>discusses what they were strung on, but who knows?

Perhaps this will help. I shall probably order a batch of them for the p= eople in Australia so we can save a bit on postage, probably be cheaper = to mail them round the country from here than to get individual ones fro= m Sweden, if you like I can ask if there is any information on how they = were strung and if that will be included in the CD. The web site for ord= ering will be up in two weeks, I just heard about it early and was sent = a couple of sample pics. great detail.

<Snip
I will have some texts about beads from Viking Age,= how beads were made, about the Viking harbour at Fr=94jel and some stat= istics about beads at Fr=94jel. And then of course a gallery of all the = beads, displayed in different categories. Price will be $10 U.S. Plus po= stage.

Dan Carlsson
---------------------------------
Associate Professor Dan Carlsson
= Gotland University
Centre for Baltic Studies
621 67 Visby, Sweden
Tel. +46-498-299829
Fax. +46-498-299892
Email: dan.carlsson@hgo.se
http://viking.hgo.se

Snip>
Fr=F6jel Gotlandica Viking Re-enactment Society.
= http://www.frojel.com/
frojel@frojel.com --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_5153984=_=_=_-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 25 01:21:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA02605 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 01:21:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5P52iC21577; Mon, 24 Jun 2002 23:02:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5P52gE09579; Mon, 24 Jun 2002 23:02:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5P4lKE05119 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2002 22:47:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [136.152.193.25] (as-5-39.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.193.25]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.10.2) with ESMTP id g5P4lJD22648 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2002 21:47:19 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] good pictures of extant garments... Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 11:48:26 -0700 Status: RO At 9:22 AM -0500 6/18/02, Robin Netherton wrote: >On Tue, 18 Jun 2002, Teddy wrote: > >> we just had a new book come in for cataloguing ... As far as I can >> make out, it's from an exhibition about cotton and fashion held in a >> Paris museum last autumn >> >> Le Coton et la Mode: 1000 ans d'aventures >> Musee Galliera, musee de la mode de la Ville de Paris. 10 >> novembre - 11 mars 2001. ISBN: 287900490X > >There's still a web page up about this exhibit. Find it at > >http://www.france.diplomatie.fr/actual/culture/coton.html > >I'm wondering if anyone (Heather?) knows of any published work about the >pourpoint of Charles VI, which is labeled in this article as being from >1368-1422 (hmm, sounds like Charles' lifetime), of red silk stuffed with >cotton, at the Musee des Beaux-Arts de Chartres. If the picture is any >indication, it's at least in as good shape as the pourpoint of Charles de >Blois. But it's impossible to know from this how much of that is >restoration. I'd LOVE a cutting layout or measurements on this puppy. There's a thread about this book and garment that I started last November titled "Not the pourpoint of Charles of Blois". One of the things we came up with at that time was that there's a cutting diagram for the Charles IV garment in Harmand (the Joan of Arc clothing book) -- and IIRC there's a link in the thread to a web page someone was putting up on the Harmand book which included the diagram. As far as I can guess, the reason the Blois garment has been well publicized and not this one may be purely a matter of momentum -- there was one really detailed publication on the Blois, and everyone's just been recycling it since. I agree that it looks to be in really good condition and needs to be published in more detail by someone who knows what they're looking at. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 25 01:54:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA03117 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 01:54:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5P5ZOC22933; Mon, 24 Jun 2002 23:35:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5P5ZNE18630; Mon, 24 Jun 2002 23:35:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5P2lvE00555 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2002 20:47:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=buck) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17MgN2-0007du-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 24 Jun 2002 19:47:57 -0700 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Message-ID: <000001c21bf2$ed1f9220$6401a8c0@Home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 In-Reply-To: <3CFD81E6.7070502@oldwaylane.net> Subject: [h-cost] Some new F.O.s to look at Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 19:49:20 -0700 Status: RO I finally got my website revamped. I have a couple of newer F.O.s to share. For direct links to the F.O.s go here: http://www.saragrace.net/2A_Cost_by_sg.htm Or http://www.saragrace.net/4C_Dame_DD.htm For a more meandering browse start here: http://www.saragrace.net/ As always I welcome constructive criticism, suggestions or questions! Taa!! Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 25 01:57:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA03125 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 01:57:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5P5chC23101; Mon, 24 Jun 2002 23:38:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5P5cgE19606; Mon, 24 Jun 2002 23:38:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d09.mx.aol.com (imo-d09.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.41]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5P5O6E15565 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2002 23:24:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Azelana@aol.com by imo-d09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 7.8e.29f63004 (4468) for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 01:23:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Azelana@aol.com Message-ID: <8e.29f63004.2a49585e@aol.com> To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 124 Subject: [h-cost] felt shoes and boots Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 01:23:42 EDT Status: RO Hey guys, the following website and info was posted to my SCA barony list. I really like the shoes (as opposed to the boots) and am considering getting some without soles then stitching a boiled leather sole to 'em. Enjoy! --Gillian <> _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 25 09:56:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA32661 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 09:56:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5PDbtC08495; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 07:37:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5PDblE09265; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 07:37:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.61]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5PCsiE27218 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 06:54:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 66-44-11-128.s382.apx2.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com ([66.44.11.128] helo=oldwaylane.net) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #5) id 17MpqG-0003Hn-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 08:54:44 -0400 Message-ID: <3D186979.5030103@oldwaylane.net> From: Judy Mitchell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:0.9.3) Gecko/20010801 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] historic "sunglasses" for Renaissance faires References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: judymitch@oldwaylane.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 09:00:41 -0400 Status: RO > and the Vikings were supposed to wear glasses of amber to protect >from glare on the sea or the snow. > --Gillian Ooh, Gillian- could you provide some reference for that? A few things we've been looking for are documentation on sunglasses (man, sunburned eyes are sore!), and wide-brimmed hats for vikings! I'd love to see what you found. -Judy Mitchell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 25 10:12:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA32720 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 10:12:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5PDrbC09426; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 07:53:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5PDraE14427; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 07:53:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.61]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5PCvTE27970 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 06:57:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 66-44-11-128.s382.apx2.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com ([66.44.11.128] helo=oldwaylane.net) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #5) id 17Mpsu-0003fz-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 08:57:28 -0400 Message-ID: <3D186A1D.8040102@oldwaylane.net> From: Judy Mitchell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:0.9.3) Gecko/20010801 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Viking Beads References: <200206250108.g5P18KqQ010716@grape.dcsi.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: judymitch@oldwaylane.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 09:03:25 -0400 Status: RO Frojel Gotlandica wrote: > Perhaps this will help. I shall probably order a batch of them for the > people in Australia so we can save a bit on postage, probably be cheaper > to mail them round the country from here than to get individual ones > from Sweden, That might be a help for Dan as well. I remember the trouble we had working out payment for our brooches: he got set up on Paypal - but paypal doesn't work in Sweden (although it does work in Australia). The disk sounds great! -Judy Mitchell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 25 12:17:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00797 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 12:17:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5PFwwC21290; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 09:58:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5PFwsE15158; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 09:58:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grape.dcsi.net.au (grape.dcsi.net.au [203.22.132.9]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5PEYWE01988 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 08:34:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sandy (ppp-37.dialup.war.dcsi.net.au [203.56.253.37]) by grape.dcsi.net.au (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id g5PEYPqQ008608 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 00:34:26 +1000 Message-Id: <200206251434.g5PEYPqQ008608@grape.dcsi.net.au> From: "Frojel Gotlandica" To: "h-costume@indra.com" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail 2000 Standard (2.20.2380) For Windows 2000 (5.0.2195;2) In-Reply-To: <3D186A1D.8040102@oldwaylane.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Viking Beads X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g5PEYWE01988 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Frojel Gotlandica" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 00:34:25 +1000 Status: RO Hi Judy Paypal now works in Sweden at last, terrific huh. But he will have his web site up and people will be able to pay with paypal. Believe me the preview pics are terrific plus he will also be including the how they were made and where they were found files as well on the CD, I asked if he could include how they were strung and what material was used etc on the CD as well. He is actually going to do a series of CD's with all the artifacts and this is the first. Cheers Sandy > > That might be a help for Dan as well. I remember the trouble >we had working out payment for our brooches: he got set up >on Paypal - but paypal doesn't work in Sweden (although it >does work in Australia). > The disk sounds great! > -Judy Mitchell Fr”jel Gotlandica Viking Re-enactment Society. http://www.frojel.com/ frojel@frojel.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 25 12:18:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00815 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 12:18:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5PFxiC21444; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 09:59:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5PFxiE15660; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 09:59:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5PFE7E20846 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 09:14:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=laptop) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17Ms18-0004t2-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 08:14:06 -0700 From: "Saragrace knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] three new costumes at my site:) Organization: PII Message-ID: <000001c21c59$b05ac140$6601a8c0@Home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <004b01c219cd$a2cc4000$49c2adcb@michaela> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 08:05:04 -0700 Status: RO Got to see most everything, and they are lovely. I love the colors you have chosen for yourself-they look great on you. Oh how I envy normal hair! Sg, the fuzzbomb _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 25 13:47:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA01339 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 13:47:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5PHRoC00807; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 11:27:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5PHRmE07523; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 11:27:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m8.boston.juno.com (m8.boston.juno.com [64.136.24.71]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5PH7YE25265 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 11:07:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OpnE04+PJGoeOwhgPIBJLwk="> Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m8.boston.juno.com (jqueuemail) id G56SWYZ6; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 13:07:19 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: Cley@juno.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] historic "sunglasses" for Renaissance faires Message-ID: <20020625.100703.-186239.10.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3-6,8-25 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 09:48:03 +0000 Status: RO I second that! Please please? We have some Norse types in our branch who are photosensitive and like to play as period as possible--this would be of great help to them. Arlys (SCA) On Tue, 25 Jun 2002 09:00:41 -0400 Judy Mitchell writes: > > and the Vikings were supposed to wear glasses of amber to protect > >from glare on the sea or the snow. > > --Gillian > > Ooh, Gillian- > could you provide some reference for that? A few things > we've > been looking for are documentation on sunglasses (man, > sunburned eyes are sore!), and wide-brimmed hats for > vikings! I'd love to see what you found. > > -Judy Mitchell > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 25 14:02:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA01385 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 14:02:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5PHhfC02463; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 11:43:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5PHheE17172; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 11:43:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13306.mail.yahoo.com (web13306.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.42]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g5PHQkE06910 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 11:26:46 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020625172645.78939.qmail@web13306.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13306.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 18:26:45 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= To: H-Costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Which glue for silk satin? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 18:26:45 +0100 (BST) Status: RO May I pick your brains? I just received a lovely Victorian fan that I won on eBay for a bargain. No one wanted it, because it is a plain, thick and perfectly fine, ivory silk satin without any decoration. It is quite a huge one, and I would like to use it. The two silk satin leaves have parted though and would have to be re-glued. What kind of glue would you recommend? Thanks for any tips Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 25 16:56:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02014 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 16:56:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5PKbIC19349; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 14:37:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5PKbFE24528; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 14:37:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5PJ81E04980 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 13:08:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=laptop) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17MvfU-0002kc-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 12:08:00 -0700 From: "Saragrace knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Which glue for silk satin? Organization: PII Message-ID: <000001c21c7a$5cc99da0$6601a8c0@Home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20020625172645.78939.qmail@web13306.mail.yahoo.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 11:58:56 -0700 Status: RO Aleene's makes several different kinds of fabric glue. I realize you won't probably be washing your fan, but their "Ok to wash-it" dries clear and flexible, and will not stain most fabrics. I have had great luck with these products. I realize you probably don't have an inconspicuous place to test it, but maybe on a similar silk? **-----Original Message----- **From: h-costume-admin@indra.com **[mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of N Kipar **Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 10:27 AM **To: H-Costume **Subject: [h-cost] Which glue for silk satin? ** ** **May I pick your brains? **I just received a lovely Victorian fan that I won on eBay for **a bargain. No one wanted it, because it is a plain, thick and **perfectly fine, ivory silk satin without any decoration. It **is quite a huge one, and I would like to use it. The two silk **satin leaves have parted though and would have to be **re-glued. What kind of glue would you recommend? ** **Thanks for any tips ** **Nicole ** **===== **Nicole Kipar M.A. **Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs **Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 **URL: http://www.kipar.org/ **Email: marquis@kipar.org ** **__________________________________________________ **Do You Yahoo!? **Everything you'll ever need on one web page **from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts **http://uk.my.yahoo.com **_______________________________________________ **h-costume mailing list **h-costume@mail.indra.com **http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 25 17:12:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA02052 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 17:12:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5PKrHC20903; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 14:53:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5PKrGE03520; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 14:53:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailhost.softwareinnovation.com (w002.z064000176.dfw-tx.dsl.cnc.net [64.0.176.2]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5PKbME24598 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 14:37:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from theforce [64.0.176.2] by mailhost.softwareinnovation.com (SMTPD32-6.00) id A4AA380374; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 15:38:02 -0500 From: "Betsy Marshall" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] historic "sunglasses" for Renaissance faires Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 15:38:02 -0500 Status: RO I also recall reading in the afterword of a novel by C.Q Yarbro that the Romans also had tinted glasses to protect eyes during long days watching the games at the Coliseum..Betsy -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On Behalf Of Azelana@aol.com Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 7:37 PM To: h-costume@net.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] historic "sunglasses" for Renaissance faires A while ago, some of you mentioned having light-sensitive eyes or even being on meds which can damage the eyes in sunlight... The following question and answer was just posted to my SCA barony's list, and I thought it might help a few of you trying to come up with more historical-looking alternatives to go with your costumes. QUESTION: >Does anyone know if sunglasses >were ever period [approx 1000AD-1600AD]? ANSWER: >Some people >did wear sunglasses -- the Inuit wore 'slit' glasses to protect them >from snowblindness, Asian judges wore smoked glasses (I believe lenses >coated with oil and baked) to hide their reactions from the people in >court, and the Vikings were supposed to wear glasses of amber to protect >from glare on the sea or the snow. There are also the "punched glasses" >(not glass at all) that people like Ajax wear. [snippage] >Commerical sunglasses seem to have been >invented in 1752 by James Ayscough, who felt that clear lenses created a >glare which was bad for the eye. >[answered by] Yevsha --Gillian _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 25 17:13:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA02056 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 17:13:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5PKrnC21056; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 14:53:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5PKrkE03899; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 14:53:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m04.mx.aol.com (imo-m04.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.7]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5PJMFE12935 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 13:22:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from FyneHats2@aol.com by imo-m04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 6.191.8dd68ce (16099) for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 15:21:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aol.com (mow-m09.webmail.aol.com [64.12.184.137]) by air-id11.mx.aol.com (v86_r1.13) with ESMTP id MAILINID113-0625152153; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 15:21:53 -0400 From: FyneHats2@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-ID: <227D0DEC.648ED29D.0251717C@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Saragrace's Dame DD Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 15:21:53 -0400 Status: RO Hi Saragrace! I am the milliner who made the Italian bonnet for Tess for the display! I hadn't gotten any pictures as yet, so I wasn't sure if the sketch she sent me ended up looking like the design that was made. It looks gorgeous! What wonderful work you do! I must say it was interesting working 1/4 size for the hat. Now I have other customers asking for it in a regular size!! I do the smaller California faires with my hat booth but hope to get to AZ some day! :) Thanks for the pictures. Donna Scarfe Fyne Hats By Felicity Period Headgear for Past Ages www.fynehatsbyfelicity.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 25 17:44:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA02229 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 17:43:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5PLOxC24454; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 15:24:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5PLOvE21403; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 15:24:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5PL4BE09545 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 15:04:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=laptop) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17MxTt-0002kA-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 14:04:10 -0700 From: "Saragrace knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Saragrace's Dame DD Organization: PII Message-ID: <000b01c21c8a$8df4f220$6601a8c0@Home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <227D0DEC.648ED29D.0251717C@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 13:54:48 -0700 Status: RO Hi Donna, Small world isn't it!! I have not seen the hat though Tess told me that she had ordered it. I can't wait to see it-I may be ordering one of my own! She has asked me to do a male version this year. I want to, but may have to put it off till next season-sew many costumes, sew little time! Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 25 18:44:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA02666 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 18:44:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5PMPCC00346; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 16:25:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5PMPAE24747; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 16:25:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtprelay8.dc2.adelphia.net (smtprelay8.dc2.adelphia.net [64.8.50.40]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5PLoqE06640 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 15:50:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [24.52.227.157] ([24.52.227.157]) by smtprelay8.dc2.adelphia.net (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id GYA7CK01.0MK for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 17:50:44 -0400 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: [h-cost] historic "sunglasses" for Renaissance faires From: randl To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 17:50:41 -0400 Status: RO i've been told that the elizabethans used sheets of amber soaked in linseed oil and set in frames. the source of this is a friend and i'll email him w/a request for documentation. laurie > I also recall reading in the afterword of a novel by C.Q Yarbro that the > Romans also had tinted glasses to protect eyes during long days watching the > games at the Coliseum..Betsy > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Azelana@aol.com > Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 7:37 PM > To: h-costume@net.indra.com > Subject: [h-cost] historic "sunglasses" for Renaissance faires _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jun 25 21:23:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA03802 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 21:23:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5Q14sC10537; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 19:04:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5Q14oE26200; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 19:04:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.ihug.co.nz (mail@smtp2.ihug.co.nz [203.109.252.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5Q0j0E20349 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 18:45:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p197-tnt7.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.206.197] by smtp2.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1 (Debian)) id 17N0vY-00081Q-00; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 12:44:57 +1200 Message-ID: <002b01c21caa$b5b60c20$c5ceadcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: <20020625172645.78939.qmail@web13306.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Which glue for silk satin? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 12:44:54 +1200 Status: RO > May I pick your brains? > I just received a lovely Victorian fan that I won on eBay for a bargain. No one > wanted it, because it is a plain, thick and perfectly fine, ivory silk satin > without any decoration. It is quite a huge one, and I would like to use it. The > two silk satin leaves have parted though and would have to be re-glued. What > kind of glue would you recommend? Oh wow. I'll have to do a search on ebay to see it:). it sounds like those 1880s huge fans that Punch made fun of:) I wish I could help, but Saragrace has suggested something. I hope it works well for you:) michaela _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 26 02:20:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA01457 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 02:20:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5Q60dC24528; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 00:00:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5Q60aE17923; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 00:00:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f119.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.119]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5Q5W9E11201 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 23:32:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 22:32:04 -0700 Received: from 24.55.6.126 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 05:32:04 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.55.6.126] From: "Maggie Secara" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] historic "sunglasses" for Renaissance faires Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Jun 2002 05:32:04.0526 (UTC) FILETIME=[CE09E4E0:01C21CD2] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 22:32:04 -0700 Status: RO That's a new one on me. If there's documentation, I'm longing to see it! The one thing I'm quite sure of, though, is that the average Elizabethan didn't grab a pair of shades before walking out doors on a bright summer day. The streets of London were not full of gentlemen in sunglasses. It would have been a rare person in rare circumstances who wore such glasses--especially if, as we've seen, side pieces weren't invented for spectacles till the 18th century. Regular glasses weren't worn commonly, like getting up in the morning and putting on your glasses, not even among the wealthy. Sunglasses must have been even more rare. In other words, a rare occasion of amber lenses wouldn't mean anyone could just throw on a pair of RayBans and call it documentable. If you MUST wear sunglasses, just do it and own up to your accomodation. Don't pretend that what you want to be true was true just because you want it. Stay in the shade. Wear a period hat with a period brim. Learn that sunshine in green and grassy places is different than sunlight reflecting off asphalt and concrete. Honesty is the best policy. MaggiRos ~The Elizabethan World is at http://ren.dm.net >From: randl >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: >Subject: Re: [h-cost] historic "sunglasses" for Renaissance faires >Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 17:50:41 -0400 > >i've been told that the elizabethans used sheets of amber soaked in linseed >oil and set in frames. the source of this is a friend and i'll email him >w/a >request for documentation. >laurie > > I also recall reading in the afterword of a novel by C.Q Yarbro that the > > Romans also had tinted glasses to protect eyes during long days watching >the > > games at the Coliseum..Betsy > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On > > Behalf Of Azelana@aol.com > > Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 7:37 PM > > To: h-costume@net.indra.com > > Subject: [h-cost] historic "sunglasses" for Renaissance faires > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 26 03:50:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA02206 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 03:50:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5Q7UhC27455; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 01:30:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5Q7UeE09022; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 01:30:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5Q7G9E05803 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 01:16:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id AAAE10201CA; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 02:18:06 -0500 Message-ID: <009201c21ce1$55480dc0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] Summer Costume Trips (Part 1) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 03:16:03 -0400 Status: RO My husband took me to Philadelphia for our anniversary/my birthday. I had the costuming time of my life these past two days. I went to the Cher concert in Philly... she changed costumes between every one to two songs. In between, they would show video clips of her in fun costumes from the past... this is her farewell concert tour. They also had the Circus de Ole' type performers (I misspelled that one big time) doing all the tricks from fabric hung from the rafters. She had them on her last concert tour and I saw them on the video. The performers are more wonderful in person! Cher's costumes looked so very Bob Mackie. Two combos looked very harem like. She is a quick change artist. She also dresses in layers and walks back stage and takes a layer off, then pops back on stage. Her costumes were wonderful!!!! Cher is in such great shape! When she sang, "If I Could Turn Back Time" her costume was very similar to the one in the video. Strange, a Navy base was just down the road. I was very surprised that Cher's back-up band was Cyndi Lauper. Cyndi was only billed to be at the Washington DC show. But she was at this 2nd show at Philly. Boy.. Cyndi is my age... I wish I had that much zip!!! She was all over the stage and ran out into the audience about five different times AND she was in a corset the whole time! She still has all her energy from the 1980s. We got one of those tourist magazines and found out the Franklin Mint Museum has on display the Princess Diana dress called the Elvis Gown. So we ran by there first thing this morning. Gosh, it has hundreds of seed pearls. So stunning! While at the Mint, I got to view the Titanic doll, Rose's costumes. The Boarding Dress is the best one. I was disappointed in the Jump Dress. The best dolls of all in the museum... The Marilyn Monroe, the white fly-up dress, and one with her sitting down with lots of petticoats on. Honorable mention is the Morgan Le Fay doll... she is beautiful! I went to lunch at Dick Clark's American Bandstand. YIPPEE!!! This was so much fun!!! It is a restaurant on one side, with all this Bandstand memorabilia... lots of costumes from rock stars, another one of my passions. I got to see costumes from Elton John, Chubby Checker, U2's Bono, Billy Joel, Phil Collins, Village People... so many I can't remember them all. They allowed me to photograph ALL the costumes and I didn't miss a one. The other side of the business is the American Bandstand studio. They do allow people to go in there and dance. It is set up just like the sound stage... so fun! We did get a brochure that said AB has other places in Detroit, Cincinnati, Kansas, and I can't recall the other place. But it was so much fun being at the city where the AB show began! Some of my earliest remembrance as a child were watching American Bandstand. I had a teenage sister who would sit me in her lap and we would watch it. Then we would try out the new dances. I loved watching all the fashions and latest rock stars. BTW, the price of the food at American Bandstand is very reasonable... unlike the Planet Hollywoods or Hard Rock Cafes. Did we get to see any of the regular tourist attractions in Philadelphia? No, but we had fun discovering other things. I was at Monticello last week... so I don't want to burn out on Thomas Jefferson history. My trip to the Library of Congress was a bust. The security in Washington DC is so tight now. Seeing all the fencing around the Capitol is so sad. We came into DC from a new direction and got lost, then stuck in gridlock traffic for an hour. I haven't been to the LOC in a few years. You used to enter from the back door... not anymore. It was extremely hot and under high ozone alerts... not a good day to walk around the whole exterior of the LOC. We had to go throw so much security... and my shoes kept setting off the alarms. There are little staples holding the leather to my wood clogs. When I got to the next check point, I took my shoes off and handed them to the security officer then walked through the metal detector. Well by the time I made it to the reading room that I wanted... I found out that as of last May, you have to have a special ID to research at the LOC. Where is this ID made? In the LOC building across this busy street. Security told us we could go throw the tunnel system and not have to go through more security checks or not have to deal with the heat outside. Thank goodness!! We got there 1 minute before the ID section closed! But we got the IDs!!!!! It was 15 minutes before the LOC reading rooms closed and we would have to walk back... I guess all wasn't a washout... I found out my shoes could be a security risk, LOL! and we got our LOC IDs. My Mom will be visiting this summer, so I hope to bring her to the LOC to research genealogy. So maybe then I can pull my costume research... all of that trouble to get some costume descriptions for some fashion plates. The Philly part of the trip was wonderful!!! Something always happens when we go to DC... one day I will learn and not to expect a perfect trip to DC, especially with the traffic. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 26 04:47:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA02670 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 04:47:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5Q8SgC29386; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 02:28:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5Q8SdE21749; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 02:28:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ivsmtp02la.mail2world.com (ivsmtp02la.mail2world.com [66.28.189.73]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5Q8EnE18723 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 02:14:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from arweb01la (unverified [10.1.201.100]) by ivsmtp02la.mail2world.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.6) with ESMTP id for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 01:11:26 -0700 thread-index: AcIc6RE7WPJ/5Kz5RtmiLy5JiEq2hg== Thread-Topic: [h-cost] historic "sunglasses" for Renaissance faires From: "freyalyn" To: Cc: Subject: Re: [h-cost] historic "sunglasses" for Renaissance faires Message-ID: <014901c21ce9$113bbac0$64c9010a@mail2world.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_014A_01C21CAE.64DCE2C0" X-Mailer: Microsoft CDO for Exchange 2000 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message Importance: normal Priority: normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 01:11:26 -0700 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_014A_01C21CAE.64DCE2C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I'm new to this list but feel I have something to contribute here. I don't think you can get amber in sheets, and it wouldn't absorb oil anyway. What I think this may refer to is horn - cow horn is translucent and was used in lanterns and windows. If a very white cow horn was shaved very thin it might be nearly transparent. As for sunglasses, I have seen references to Vikings using strips of cloth tied across their eyes, with very thin slits left to see out of. This works on both snow and sea. I think amber would always have been too valuable to cut big chunks up into thin slices. Freyalyn, from the UK, with a very out-if-date degree in Archaeology to back her up (mostly Vikings and Bronze Age Greece, if you ask) _______________________________________________________________ Sign up for FREE iVillage newsletters . >From health and pregnancy to shopping and relationships, iVillage has the scoop on what matters most to you. <-----Original Message-----> > > From: randl > Sent: 6/26/2002 1:52:41 AM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: [h-cost] historic "sunglasses" for Renaissance faires > > i've been told that the elizabethans used sheets of amber soaked in linseed > oil and set in frames. the source of this is a friend and i'll email him w/a > request for documentation. > laurie > I also recall reading in the afterword of a novel by C.Q Yarbro that the > Romans also had tinted glasses to protect eyes during long days watching the > games at the Coliseum..Betsy > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Azelana@aol.com > Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 7:37 PM > To: h-costume@net.indra.com > Subject: [h-cost] historic "sunglasses" for Renaissance faires > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ------=_NextPart_000_014A_01C21CAE.64DCE2C0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I'm new to this list but feel I have something to contribute here. I don't think you can get amber in sheets, and it wouldn't absorb oil anyway. What I think this may refer to is horn - cow horn is translucent and was used in lanterns and windows. If a very white cow horn was shaved very thin it might be nearly transparent.

As for sunglasses, I have seen references to Vikings using strips of cloth tied across their eyes, with very thin slits left to see out of. This works on both snow and sea. I think amber would always have been too valuable to cut big chunks up into thin slices.

Freyalyn, from the UK, with a very out-if-date degree in Archaeology to back her up (mostly Vikings and Bronze Age Greece, if you ask)


_______________________________________________________________
Sign up for FREE iVillage newsletters.
From health and pregnancy to shopping and relationships, iVillage
has the scoop on what matters most to you. <-----Original Message----->
>
> From: randl
> Sent: 6/26/2002 1:52:41 AM
> To: h-costume@indra.com
> Subject: Re: [h-cost] historic "sunglasses" for Renaissance faires
>
> i've been told that the elizabethans used sheets of amber soaked in linseed
> oil and set in frames. the source of this is a friend and i'll email him w/a
> request for documentation.
> laurie
> I also recall reading in the afterword of a novel by C.Q Yarbro that the
> Romans also had tinted glasses to protect eyes during long days watching the
> games at the Coliseum..Betsy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On
> Behalf Of Azelana@aol.com
> Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 7:37 PM
> To: h-costume@net.indra.com
> Subject: [h-cost] historic "sunglasses" for Renaissance faires
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>
------=_NextPart_000_014A_01C21CAE.64DCE2C0-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 26 05:04:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA02795 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 05:04:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5Q8jDC00331; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 02:45:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5Q8jBE25775; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 02:45:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13301.mail.yahoo.com (web13301.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.37]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g5Q82hE16029 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 02:02:44 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020626080243.89593.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13301.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 09:02:43 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Which glue for silk satin? To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <002b01c21caa$b5b60c20$c5ceadcb@michaela> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 09:02:43 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- michaela wrote: > > > > Oh wow. I'll have to do a search on ebay to see it:). it sounds like those > 1880s huge fans that Punch made fun of:) Here's the link to the image on ebay: http://ebay1.ipixmedia.com/abc/M28/_EBAY_bd54212bfd437258e5e3a5234fa52d88/i-1.JPG demmit, I fear you have to copy and paste, here's the shorter url for the auction page: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2112839932 I love the fan, it's 32 cm *L* just a tad too long, most 1700 fans were 28 cm, but the others I have are too short (while being perfect for the 1660s-1680s) Admitedly te satin isn't quite right and I have to get rid of the feathers and replac them with something more inconspicuous, but hey, it makes a LOT of a fresh breeze :-) > I wish I could help, but Saragrace has suggested something. I hope it works > well for you:) Thanks ever so much, now I just have to find Aleene in england... nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 26 05:04:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA02807 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 05:04:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5Q8jnC00368; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 02:45:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5Q8jmE25886; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 02:45:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13303.mail.yahoo.com (web13303.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.39]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g5Q8KOE19987 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 02:20:24 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020626082023.60536.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13303.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 09:20:23 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: RE: [h-cost] Which glue for silk satin? To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <000001c21c7a$5cc99da0$6601a8c0@Home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 09:20:23 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Saragrace knauf wrote: > Aleene's makes several different kinds of fabric glue. I realize you > won't probably be washing your fan, but their "Ok to wash-it" dries > clear and flexible, and will not stain most fabrics. I have had great > luck with these products. I realize you probably don't have an > inconspicuous place to test it, but maybe on a similar silk? > Ha, I found it! Found it on the web straight away and ordered the glue on a UK craft shop site. Thanks, I'll let you know how it'll come along. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 26 05:04:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA02811 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 05:04:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5Q8jsC00385; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 02:45:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5Q8jrE25913; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 02:45:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5Q8REE21453 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 02:27:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id AB597E01FA; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 03:29:13 -0500 Message-ID: <00a501c21ceb$4122fee0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] Summer Costume Trips (Part 2) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 04:27:04 -0400 Status: RO When friend's families come into town I become costume tour guide... its fun, and I get into places for free. Last week, my best friend's mother was in town... she is a costume lover too. One day we went to Thomas Jefferson's Monticello. She really loved all of his inventions, his home, and how he stored his clothing in a closet over his bed. And the view from the top of the mountain is great. For more info on Monticello, go to http://www.monticello.org/ . The next touring day we went to Walton's Mountain. This was my first time to this museum located in the Blue Ridge Mts. of Virginia in a little community called Schuyler. This is where Earl Hamner, the author of the movie "The Homecoming" and television series is originally from. When my kids were little I watched the show, The Walton's, everyday. I have to tell you, this location in the mountains and some of the stories in the show are not far from the truth. This place is way off the beaten path (make sure to gas up before leaving the main towns). The community consists of 2 churches (one is identical to the one the family attended in the show), a bed & breakfast (the building where Hamner/John Boy's first printing press was located), Hamner's school (now a museum for the TV show), and a restaurant (the original first school.) BTW, when driving from Richmond to the location via Rt. 6, you do pass the Dew Drop Inn. Before, I review the museum for you... we ate lunch at this restaurant/Hamner's first school. It burnt once and was rebuilt later. After the first school was burned, there was a rush to build a new school next door, so the kids could go to school the next autumn. Ironically, this episode aired the next day on TVLand channel. The Walton's comes on at 1:00 PM East Coast time. The museum is located in Hamner's former school with about 10 classrooms. Each classroom is set up with something different. Three of the Hollywood sets from the TV show have been moved to the museum... the kitchen, the living room, and John Boy's bedroom, each were located in a separate classroom. This was the eeriest feeling to walk into these sets. Each one of us felt like we were invading The Waltons privacy. We all knew they were sets... but the feeling was there anyways. The living room and kitchen sets were perfect, everything was in its place like in the show. You could just feel like a pack of Walton kids would run through the room any minute. As for costumes... the only two costumes were Erin's... her wedding dress and a girl's dress about size 10 or 12. The wedding dress is displayed behind glass on a mannequin, and Erin's childhood dress is displayed in John Boy's room. Two emmys, some other awards, and a few scripts are displayed. One of the scripts is from the scary "Ferris Wheel" episode. There is a short film with current interviews with the cast. It was really good. Lots of memorabilia in the museum... photos, props, and a model of the homestead. BTW, the gift shop is called Ike Godsey's general store. You can buy a postcard there, fill it out, stamp it, and they will mail it with a Walton's Mountain postage mark to your home. It is really fun for anyone who is/was a fan of the show. Once a year the cast of the show has a re-union at the museum. This year the re-union is Oct. 19-20. They usually have a good turn-out of the cast members. I have also heard there is an apple festival in a neighboring town that weekend. This is also peak time for the autumn foliage in the Blue Ridge. Lastly, each of the Walton children represented a member of Hamner's family. The character, Ben, was a combination of two of Hamner's brothers. Here in Richmond, it is rumored that two of Hamner's siblings reside here. The sister who's character was Mary Ellen... is married to a doctor and is a retired nurse. And Hamner's brother aka Jim Bob, who is a junk dealer. I have never had anyone confirm that, but it is the rumor around town. For more information about Walton's Mountain go to http://www.waltonmuseum.org/ . If you really wanted, you could go to Monticello and Walton's Mountain in one day. Both are near Charottesville, Virginia on I-64. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 26 07:14:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA03710 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 07:14:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5QAuBC04702; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 04:56:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5QAu9E21431; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 04:56:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtprelay9.dc2.adelphia.net (smtprelay9.dc2.adelphia.net [64.8.50.53]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5QASaE15470 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 04:28:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [24.52.227.157] ([24.52.227.157]) by smtprelay9.dc2.adelphia.net (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id GYB6FL00.L87 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 06:28:33 -0400 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: [h-cost] historic "sunglasses" for Renaissance faires From: randl To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 06:28:33 -0400 Status: RO when i get it, i'll certainly share it. i'm sure elizabethans didn't run around in their "shades". i was simply sharing something i had been told. from what i understood of this thread, we were sharing information regarding "period" sunglasses. if anyone is interested, please see the thread in stephens florilegium: http://www.florilegium.org/files/DISABILITIES/eyeglasses-msg.text laurie > That's a new one on me. If there's documentation, I'm longing to see it! > The one thing I'm quite sure of, though, is that the average Elizabethan > didn't grab a pair of shades before walking out doors on a bright summer > day. The streets of London were not full of gentlemen in sunglasses. > > It would have been a rare person in rare circumstances who wore such > glasses--especially if, as we've seen, side pieces weren't invented for > spectacles till the 18th century. Regular glasses weren't worn commonly, > like getting up in the morning and putting on your glasses, not even among > the wealthy. Sunglasses must have been even more rare. > > In other words, a rare occasion of amber lenses wouldn't mean anyone could > just throw on a pair of RayBans and call it documentable. If you MUST wear > sunglasses, just do it and own up to your accomodation. Don't pretend that > what you want to be true was true just because you want it. > > Stay in the shade. Wear a period hat with a period brim. Learn that > sunshine in green and grassy places is different than sunlight reflecting > off asphalt and concrete. > > Honesty is the best policy. > > > MaggiRos > ~The Elizabethan World is at http://ren.dm.net > > > >> From: randl >> Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >> To: >> Subject: Re: [h-cost] historic "sunglasses" for Renaissance faires >> Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 17:50:41 -0400 >> >> i've been told that the elizabethans used sheets of amber soaked in linseed >> oil and set in frames. the source of this is a friend and i'll email him >> w/a >> request for documentation. >> laurie >>> I also recall reading in the afterword of a novel by C.Q Yarbro that the >>> Romans also had tinted glasses to protect eyes during long days watching >> the >>> games at the Coliseum..Betsy >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On >>> Behalf Of Azelana@aol.com >>> Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 7:37 PM >>> To: h-costume@net.indra.com >>> Subject: [h-cost] historic "sunglasses" for Renaissance faires >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: > http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 26 08:18:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA03901 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 08:18:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5QBuEC06666; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 05:56:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5QBu9E04085; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 05:56:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grape.dcsi.net.au (grape.dcsi.net.au [203.22.132.9]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5QBR2E27818 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 05:27:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sandy (ppp-157.dialup.war.dcsi.net.au [203.56.253.157]) by grape.dcsi.net.au (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id g5QBQsqQ015410 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 21:26:57 +1000 Message-Id: <200206261126.g5QBQsqQ015410@grape.dcsi.net.au> From: "Frojel Gotlandica" To: "h-costume@indra.com" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail 2000 Standard (2.20.2380) For Windows 2000 (5.0.2195;2) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: [h-cost] historic "sunglasses" for Renaissance faires X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g5QBR2E27818 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Frojel Gotlandica" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 21:26:54 +1000 Status: RO An interesting thread though, I believe that "sunglasses" were more like snow glasses/blinkers but then again the Vikings had and made lenses quite capable of magnifying which we presume were used to magnify detailed work. Almost perfect aspheric lenses according to Opto and Laser magazine. See http://www.frojel.com/_index.html , documents. But there have been no finds of them in pairs as spectacles, only as jewellery, Darn. Oh well. Monocles? Keep looking eh? Sandy >when i get it, i'll certainly share it. >i'm sure elizabethans didn't run around in their "shades". i was simply >sharing something i had been told. from what i understood of this thread, we >were sharing information regarding "period" sunglasses. >if anyone is interested, please see the thread in stephens florilegium: >http://www.florilegium.org/files/DISABILITIES/eyeglasses-msg.text >laurie > >> That's a new one on me. If there's documentation, I'm longing to see it! >> The one thing I'm quite sure of, though, is that the average Elizabethan >> didn't grab a pair of shades before walking out doors on a bright summer >> day. The streets of London were not full of gentlemen in sunglasses. >> >> It would have been a rare person in rare circumstances who wore such >> glasses--especially if, as we've seen, side pieces weren't invented for >> spectacles till the 18th century. Regular glasses weren't worn commonly, >> like getting up in the morning and putting on your glasses, not even among >> the wealthy. Sunglasses must have been even more rare. >> >> In other words, a rare occasion of amber lenses wouldn't mean anyone could >> just throw on a pair of RayBans and call it documentable. If you MUST wear >> sunglasses, just do it and own up to your accomodation. Don't pretend that >> what you want to be true was true just because you want it. >> >> Stay in the shade. Wear a period hat with a period brim. Learn that >> sunshine in green and grassy places is different than sunlight reflecting >> off asphalt and concrete. >> >> Honesty is the best policy. >> >> >> MaggiRos >> ~The Elizabethan World is at http://ren.dm.net >> >> >> >>> From: randl >>> Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >>> To: >>> Subject: Re: [h-cost] historic "sunglasses" for Renaissance faires >>> Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 17:50:41 -0400 >>> >>> i've been told that the elizabethans used sheets of amber soaked in linseed >>> oil and set in frames. the source of this is a friend and i'll email him >>> w/a >>> request for documentation. >>> laurie >>>> I also recall reading in the afterword of a novel by C.Q Yarbro that the >>>> Romans also had tinted glasses to protect eyes during long days watching >>> the >>>> games at the Coliseum..Betsy >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On >>>> Behalf Of Azelana@aol.com >>>> Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 7:37 PM >>>> To: h-costume@net.indra.com >>>> Subject: [h-cost] historic "sunglasses" for Renaissance faires >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> h-costume mailing list >>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: >> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Fr”jel Gotlandica Viking Re-enactment Society. http://www.frojel.com/ frojel@frojel.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 26 11:30:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA04594 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 11:30:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5QFB4C18215; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 09:11:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5QFB1c11163; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 09:11:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mr3.ash.ops.us.uu.net (mr3.ash.ops.us.uu.net [198.5.241.88]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5QEp9E01130 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 08:51:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pop.net by mr3.ash.ops.us.uu.net with ESMTP (peer crosschecked as: 1Cust110.tnt25.tco2.da.uu.net [67.200.184.110]) id QQmuxv00927 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 14:51:08 GMT Message-ID: <3D19D4DB.FF4F53F3@pop.net> From: Jessica Wilbur X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Summer Costume Trips (Part 2) References: <00a501c21ceb$4122fee0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 10:51:07 -0400 Status: RO Penny Ladnier wrote: > The next touring day we went to Walton's Mountain. This was my first time > to this museum located in the Blue Ridge Mts. of Virginia in a little > community called Schuyler. This is where Earl Hamner, the author of the > movie "The Homecoming" and television series is originally from. W > > Penny Ladnier Penny, that is too funny! I grew up in Lovingston, which is just a few miles down Rt. 29 south of Schuyler. The Waltons is Nelson County's one claim to fame. I never really watched the show though - I think I'm a tad behind that generation. But I did meet Mrs. Hamner, Earl's mother, once, when I was very young. Nelson County is very beautiful, though. I'm glad you enjoyed yourself. I always love going home to visit my parents. --Jessica _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 26 12:04:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA04858 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 12:04:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5QFhqC21584; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 09:43:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5QFhoc28900; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 09:43:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5QFTRc20836 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 09:29:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LalahTT@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 6.b6.d8cde6e (17527) for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 11:29:19 -0400 (EDT) From: LalahTT@aol.com Message-ID: Subject: Re: [h-cost] historic "sunglasses" for Renaissance faires To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_b6.d8cde6e.2a4b37ce_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10568 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 11:29:18 EDT Status: RO --part1_b6.d8cde6e.2a4b37ce_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/26/02 2:01:35 AM Eastern Daylight Time, maggiros@hotmail.com writes: > the average Elizabethan > didn't grab a pair of shades before walking out doors on a bright summer > day. The streets of London were not full of gentlemen in sunglasses The average Elizabethan didn't need sunglasses. London is not known, even today, for its bright sunny streets. And the UV rays were not as strong during the SCA period due to a healthier ozone layer back then. If there is documentation to prove that sunglasses were worn, a lot of people will be saving their eyes from future cataracts by wearing them. Hats and trees do not protect the eyes from UV rays. Lalah Never Give up, Never Surrender, - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Looking for a great gift? Check out Beary Classy Bears at http://hometown.aol.com/bearyclassybears/myhomepage/sale.html --part1_b6.d8cde6e.2a4b37ce_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/26/02 2:01:35 AM Eastern Daylight Time, maggiros@hotmail.com writes:


the average Elizabethan
didn't grab a pair of shades before walking out doors on a bright summer
day. The streets of London were not full of gentlemen in sunglasses
      The average Elizabethan didn't need sunglasses.  London is not known, even today, for its bright sunny streets.  And the UV rays were not as strong during the SCA period due to a healthier ozone layer back then.

      If there is documentation to prove that sunglasses were worn, a lot of people will be saving their eyes from future cataracts by wearing them.  Hats and trees do not protect the eyes from UV rays.

Lalah
Never Give up, Never Surrender,
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Looking for a great gift?  Check out Beary Classy Bears at
http://hometown.aol.com/bearyclassybears/myhomepage/sale.html

--part1_b6.d8cde6e.2a4b37ce_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 26 16:24:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA06211 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 16:24:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5QK5bC18201; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 14:05:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5QK5Xc27930; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 14:05:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5QJdoc12444 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 13:39:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=laptop) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17NIdp-0001gN-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 12:39:49 -0700 From: "Saragrace knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Some new F.O.s to look at Organization: PII Message-ID: <000001c21d47$f7b4cce0$6601a8c0@Home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 12:30:43 -0700 Status: RO Wow, I have to admit you had me going there for a second! The velvet comes from a place called Thai Silks in California. Here is their website, http://www.thaisilks.com/ they recently added online ordering, but their aren't any pictures. Do order their samples, you can order a few at a time or, order their entire sample set. If you and your housemate like fabric, treat yourselves to an evening of going through those instead of a movie. Talk about drooling!! The velvet comes in many colors and that particular one is shot (they have a number of these). The pictures really don't capture the two tone effect well. The dupoini on her sleeves is actually yellow and red, but in the picture you get sort of an in between. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 26 18:47:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA06898 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 18:47:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5QMSeC26363; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 16:28:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5QMScj16820; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 16:28:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d02.mx.aol.com (imo-d02.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5QMBRc05479 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 16:11:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Kitsune242@aol.com by imo-d02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 6.15a.fee215f (17079); Wed, 26 Jun 2002 18:11:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Kitsune242@aol.com Message-ID: <15a.fee215f.2a4b9602@aol.com> To: h-costume@indra.com, tmoor@parks.ca.gov, HeatherAMP@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_15a.fee215f.2a4b9602_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10568 Subject: [h-cost] A definate decision Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 18:11:14 EDT Status: RO --part1_15a.fee215f.2a4b9602_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings All! I was just sitting here at my desk, bored out of my mind over this script I am yet again making revisions to. And I have decided that I am going to quit my job and go into business for myself. I am going to make custom clothing/costumes for me. That's it, definitely a niche market, but one I think I can fill quiet well. Why you might ask, would I want to fill such a small niche market? Well, let me explain... A) I need clothes. You can never have too many clothes. My weight fluctuates and this way I can have a wardrobe for every weight. And besides, how else am I ever going to use my 13 bins of fabric? B) I love to travel. This way I can write off all my travel expenses as business expenses. (Remember how I was asking about Portuguese Costumes?) I can travel the world. Taking photographs of beautiful things for me to come back home, make and sell to myself. C) We all want to do something we enjoy. I love sewing, and I love getting new clothes. It seems like the perfect solution. So, if anyone has any good recommendations of things to add to my business loan application, please let me know, because I want to be sure to get my loan so I can quit revising this blanking script! Thank you! Kit PS - In case you haven't quite, this is meant totally tounge-in-cheek. (or is that tongue-and-cheek?) Have fun with it! I hope you got a small laugh. --part1_15a.fee215f.2a4b9602_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings All!

I was just sitting here at my desk, bored out of my mind over this script I am yet again making revisions to.  And I have decided that I am going to quit my job and go into business for myself.  I am going to make custom clothing/costumes for me.  That's it, definitely a niche market, but one I think I can fill quiet well.  Why you might ask, would I want to fill such a small niche market?  Well, let me explain...

A) I need clothes.  You can never have too many clothes.  My weight fluctuates and this way I can have a wardrobe for every weight.  And besides, how else am I ever going to use my 13 bins of fabric?

B) I love to travel.  This way I can write off all my travel expenses as business expenses. (Remember how I was asking about Portuguese Costumes?)  I can travel the world.  Taking photographs of beautiful things for me to come back home, make and sell to myself.

C) We all want to do something we enjoy.  I love sewing, and I love getting new clothes.  It seems like the perfect solution.

So, if anyone has any good recommendations of things to add to my business loan application, please let me know, because I want to be sure to get my loan so I can quit revising this blanking script!

Thank you!
Kit

PS - In case you haven't quite, this is meant totally tounge-in-cheek. (or is that tongue-and-cheek?)  Have fun with it!  I hope you got a small laugh. --part1_15a.fee215f.2a4b9602_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 26 19:21:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA07024 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 19:21:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5QN2iC01754; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 17:02:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5QN2cj06096; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 17:02:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.ttlc.net (mail.ttlc.net [208.130.9.4]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5QMBYc05564 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 16:11:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ttlc.net [140.186.40.249] by mail.ttlc.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.00) id AD14C79013E; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 18:15:48 -0400 Message-ID: <3D1A2CEC.52220424@ttlc.net> From: Dot & Lee Fisher X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD TTLC_Internet_Netscape4.5_3 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 1812 Civilian List <1812Civilian@yahoogroups.com>, 18c Woman List <18cWoman@yahoogroups.com>, 19cWoman List <19cWoman@yahoogroups.com>, H-Costume List , Sewing Historic Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] CD ROM on American Dresses Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: LeeDotFisher@ttlc.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 17:06:52 -0400 Status: RO My apologies to those of you on multiple lists. I'm sending this to all the lists, that I'm a member, that concern clothing, Last April I acquired a CD ROM titled American Dresses 1780 -1900: Identification and Significance of 148 Extant Dresses_.by Elsie Frost McMurry. I haven't begun to digest the information contained in its 830+ pages. Not all of the dresses are treated the same, some have photos and pattern diagrams, others have just descriptions. The CD is divided into chapters. The two 18th century chapters cover 15 years and overlap and actually start in 1774. The 19th century is divided by decade. Each chapter is organized as follows: The ____ Decade (dates) Persons, Events, and State of Affairs Compared Specimens of the ____ Decade Predominant Characteristic of Compared Specimens Detecting the Facts _____ Decade (dates) Measurements of ? Dresses It can be obtained from the Cornell University Resource Center, Media & Technology Services, 7 Cornell Business & Technology Park, Ithica, NY 14850 Phone 607-255-2090 Fax 607-25-9946 email resctr@cornell.edu The price is $49.95 and of course NY State residents need to add 8% tax Hope this is of interest to someone. Dot Fisher _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 26 20:30:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA07271 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 20:30:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5R0BeC06365; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 18:11:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5R0Bcj02137; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 18:11:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5QNiWj23085 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 17:44:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=laptop) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17NMSd-0007PC-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 16:44:32 -0700 From: "Saragrace knauf" To: Organization: PII Message-ID: <001001c21d6a$1d58e860$6601a8c0@Home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 In-Reply-To: <000001c21d47$f7b4cce0$6601a8c0@Home> Subject: [h-cost] Shoulder Roll "tutorial" website-feedback please Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 16:35:09 -0700 Status: RO I have posted a 'how to' on shoulder rolls on my website. I would appreciate any feedback on clarity etc. Thanks!! Click on the last selection "How to make a Shoulder Roll" @ http://www.saragrace.net/2A_Cost_by_sg.htm _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 26 21:22:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA07546 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 21:22:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5R13rC09101; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 19:03:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5R13pj17928; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 19:03:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mothra.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net (mothra.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net [206.210.69.149]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g5R0hlj11836 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 18:43:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 23236 invoked from network); 27 Jun 2002 00:43:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO inetone.net) (206.105.173.172) by mothra.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net with SMTP; 27 Jun 2002 00:43:26 -0000 Message-ID: <3D1A5FCA.ED1C9393@inetone.net> From: Dhannti X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shoulder Roll "tutorial" website-feedback please References: <001001c21d6a$1d58e860$6601a8c0@Home> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 20:43:54 -0400 Status: RO Saragrace knauf wrote: > > I have posted a 'how to' on shoulder rolls on my website. I would > appreciate any feedback on clarity etc. Thanks!! > Click on the last selection "How to make a Shoulder Roll" @ > > http://www.saragrace.net/2A_Cost_by_sg.htm > I loved looking at the other costumes as well. Wonderful! I loved how you explained the shoulder roll. My first and only shoulder rolls came out slightly different. Yours are much neater and smoother then mine. I will remember the felt after seeing yours. Thank you for sharing. Di _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 26 21:57:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA07631 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 21:57:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5R1c5C10909; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 19:38:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5R1c2j27725; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 19:38:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01.attbi.com [204.127.202.61]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5R1Hwj21867 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 19:17:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default.attbi.com ([24.245.40.153]) by sccrmhc01.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020627011753.ZSDO29588.sccrmhc01.attbi.com@default.attbi.com> for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2002 01:17:53 +0000 Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20020626201455.02d12650@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: dannw@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg In-Reply-To: <019901c20b5f$10c8f800$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20020603190959.032a55a0@mail.attbi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] Regency era parasol frames... Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 20:16:11 -0500 Status: RO Greetings, I'm looking for parasol frames suitable for the English Regency period. Does anyone have any suggestions? I found this on a google search: http://www.gildebrief.de/shopping/index.html?target=dept_456.html&lang=en-us Is anyone familiar with this company? Would this type of frame be suitable? Cheers, Danielle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 26 22:32:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA07740 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 22:32:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5R2DuC12512; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 20:13:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5R2Dtj07731; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 20:13:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from a.smtp-out.sonic.net (a.smtp-out.sonic.net [208.201.224.38]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g5R1qrj01828 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 19:52:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 3186 invoked from network); 27 Jun 2002 01:52:52 -0000 Received: from prop.sonic.net (208.201.224.193) by a.smtp-out.sonic.net with SMTP; 27 Jun 2002 01:52:52 -0000 Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-100-35.sonic.net [209.148.100.35]) by prop.sonic.net (8.11.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id g5R1qpI17433 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 18:52:52 -0700 X-envelope-info: Message-ID: <3D1A70F2.8AAB603@lavoltapress.com> From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Regency era parasol frames... References: <5.0.0.25.2.20020603190959.032a55a0@mail.attbi.com> <5.0.0.25.2.20020626201455.02d12650@mail.attbi.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------004C8101E86099F5CF780DEC" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 18:57:06 -0700 Status: RO --------------004C8101E86099F5CF780DEC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Isn't this a doll-only supplier? So maybe it's not a human-sized parasol? Fran Danielle Nunn-Weinberg wrote: > Greetings, > > I'm looking for parasol frames suitable for the English Regency > period. Does anyone have any suggestions? > > I found this on a google search: > http://www.gildebrief.de/shopping/index.html?target=dept_456.html&lang=en-us > > Is anyone familiar with this company? Would this type of frame be suitable? > > Cheers, > Danielle --------------------------------------------- Visit our web pages! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and vintage dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance --------------004C8101E86099F5CF780DEC Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Isn't this a doll-only supplier?  So maybe it's not a human-sized parasol?

Fran

Danielle Nunn-Weinberg wrote:

Greetings,

I'm looking for parasol frames suitable for the English Regency
period.  Does anyone have any suggestions?

I found this on a google search:
http://www.gildebrief.de/shopping/index.html?target=dept_456.html&lang=en-us

Is anyone familiar with this company?  Would this type of frame be suitable?

Cheers,
Danielle


---------------------------------------------
Visit our web pages!
Books on historic costume and vintage clothes
http://www.lavoltapress.com
Historic and vintage dance
http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance
  --------------004C8101E86099F5CF780DEC-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jun 26 23:09:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA07830 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 23:09:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5R2n2C14556; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 20:49:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5R2n1j17832; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 20:49:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ns.misc.com (h-66-134-203-2.SNVACAID.covad.net [66.134.203.2]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5R2TNj11994 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 20:29:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from misc.com (mac.misc.com [192.168.254.109]) by ns.misc.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA01226 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 19:31:21 -0700 Message-ID: <3D1A796F.C1620DB4@misc.com> From: Theresa Eacker X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Regency era parasol frames... References: <5.0.0.25.2.20020603190959.032a55a0@mail.attbi.com> <5.0.0.25.2.20020626201455.02d12650@mail.attbi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 19:33:19 -0700 Status: RO To Danielle- Are you making a doll for the Regency era? This looks like a doll making supplier, in which case, the parasol would be too tiny for a human. You might check out: http://home.earthlink.net/~gchristen/Parasols.html (does a carriage parasol which might be small enough) or http://www.originals-by-kay.com/gifts/default.shtm (might be too large since this site focuses on CW). Good luck, Theresa Eacker Danielle Nunn-Weinberg wrote: > > Greetings, > > I'm looking for parasol frames suitable for the English Regency > period. Does anyone have any suggestions? > > I found this on a google search: > http://www.gildebrief.de/shopping/index.html?target=dept_456.html&lang=en-us > > Is anyone familiar with this company? Would this type of frame be suitable? > > Cheers, > Danielle > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jun 27 00:33:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA08038 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2002 00:33:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5R4EdC19007; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 22:14:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5R4Ecj12375; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 22:14:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.61]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5R3jCj04032 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 21:45:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-164-48-38.c3-0.gth-ubr1.lnh-gth.md.cable.rcn.com ([216.164.48.38] helo=megan2) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with smtp (Exim 3.35 #5) id 17NQDY-0005b8-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 23:45:12 -0400 From: "Megan M." To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Shoulder Roll "tutorial" website-feedback please Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 In-Reply-To: <001001c21d6a$1d58e860$6601a8c0@Home> Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 23:51:31 -0400 Status: RO Having never actually made shoulder rolls, after reading your page I think I just might try it. Thank you so much. I would not have thought of the nip and tuck necessary to keep the dress from pulling (at least until after I'd made one or two that did) and your page explained it very well. thanks, -Megan -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On Behalf Of Saragrace knauf Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 7:35 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Shoulder Roll "tutorial" website-feedback please I have posted a 'how to' on shoulder rolls on my website. I would appreciate any feedback on clarity etc. Thanks!! Click on the last selection "How to make a Shoulder Roll" @ http://www.saragrace.net/2A_Cost_by_sg.htm _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 28 02:04:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA21642 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 02:04:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5S5jfC20598; Thu, 27 Jun 2002 23:45:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5S5jaj00751; Thu, 27 Jun 2002 23:45:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01.attbi.com [204.127.202.61]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5S5HLj23865 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2002 23:17:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default.attbi.com ([24.245.40.153]) by sccrmhc01.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020628051716.LZKH29588.sccrmhc01.attbi.com@default.attbi.com> for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 05:17:16 +0000 Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20020628001817.03552c30@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: dannw@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Subject: Re: [h-cost] Regency era parasol frames... In-Reply-To: <3D1A70F2.8AAB603@lavoltapress.com> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20020603190959.032a55a0@mail.attbi.com> <5.0.0.25.2.20020626201455.02d12650@mail.attbi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 00:19:33 -0500 Status: RO I somehow missed the references to dolls in the left hand column. It was the only not-obviously-doll parasol frame place I came up with on a google search. Thanks for pointing that out. Cheers, Danielle At 06:57 PM 6/26/2002 -0700, you wrote: >Isn't this a doll-only supplier? So maybe it's not a human-sized parasol? > >Fran > >Danielle Nunn-Weinberg wrote: >>Greetings, >> >>I'm looking for parasol frames suitable for the English Regency >>period. Does anyone have any suggestions? >> >>I found this on a google search: >>http://www.gildebrief.de/shopping/index.html?target=dept_456.html&lang=en-us >> >> >>Is anyone familiar with this company? Would this type of frame be suitable? >> >>Cheers, >>Danielle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 28 15:46:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA32662 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 15:46:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5SJRrC06262; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 13:27:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5SJRoj00407; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 13:27:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f170.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.170]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5R4vPj24234 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 22:57:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 21:57:20 -0700 Received: from 24.55.6.126 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 27 Jun 2002 04:57:19 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.55.6.126] From: "Maggie Secara" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] historic "sunglasses" for Renaissance faires Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Jun 2002 04:57:20.0099 (UTC) FILETIME=[1E095330:01C21D97] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 21:57:19 -0700 So in other words, they didn't wear sunglasses because they didn't need them. I thought we were looking to the Elizabethans for proof that sunglasses were worn? So far I haven't actually seen any documentation, just speculation and rumor. And as I said, if someone feels they must wear them, then they should just do it. The fact that there isn't any (so far) is not, in my experience, keeping very many people from doing so. What I said was: Spectacles didn't have side pieces. Most people didn't wear even clear glasses at all. Sunglasses would be even less common. Anything common should be easier to find. MaggiRos >From: LalahTT@aol.com >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: Re: [h-cost] historic "sunglasses" for Renaissance faires >Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 11:29:18 EDT > >In a message dated 6/26/02 2:01:35 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >maggiros@hotmail.com writes: > > > > the average Elizabethan > > didn't grab a pair of shades before walking out doors on a bright summer > > day. The streets of London were not full of gentlemen in sunglasses > > The average Elizabethan didn't need sunglasses. London is not >known, >even today, for its bright sunny streets. And the UV rays were not as >strong >during the SCA period due to a healthier ozone layer back then. > > If there is documentation to prove that sunglasses were worn, a lot >of >people will be saving their eyes from future cataracts by wearing them. >Hats >and trees do not protect the eyes from UV rays. > >Lalah >Never Give up, Never Surrender, >- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >Looking for a great gift? Check out Beary Classy Bears at >http://hometown.aol.com/bearyclassybears/myhomepage/sale.html > > _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 28 15:47:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA32666 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 15:47:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5SJTCC06377; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 13:29:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5SJTCj01101; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 13:29:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5R6dRj19738 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2002 00:39:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A39A3A101C2; Thu, 27 Jun 2002 01:41:30 -0500 Message-ID: <00b101c21da4$f7dd1b20$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <00a501c21ceb$4122fee0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> <3D19D4DB.FF4F53F3@pop.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Summer Costume Trips (Part 2) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 02:36:28 -0400 Jessica, You are from a beautiful part of the country. I so enjoy every trip I make to that part of the state. My Mom wouldn't allow us to watch The Waltons because she grew up during the Depression and WW2 and didn't want us to know what it was like. I started watching the show when it first went into reruns in the 1980s. I do remember when everyone was so excited and ran home early to watch Mary Ellen get married on the show. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 28 15:49:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA32671 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 15:49:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5SJVNC06843; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 13:31:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5SJVMj02627; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 13:31:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from crunchy.sound.net (crunchy.sound.net [205.242.194.25]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g5QMixj26268 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 16:44:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 18744 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2002 22:42:45 -0000 Received: from tnt1-082189.kc.sound.net (HELO oemcomputer.sound.net) (209.153.82.189) by crunchy.sound.net with SMTP; 26 Jun 2002 22:42:45 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20020626174235.009f9980@sound.net> X-Sender: sherylnd@sound.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Sheryl Nance-Durst Subject: Re: [h-cost] A definate decision In-Reply-To: <15a.fee215f.2a4b9602@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 17:44:35 -0500 Kit, Thank you... You certainly lightened my day with this one! Sounds like you've hit upon the dream job for everyone on this list. Sheryl Nance-Durst At 06:11 PM 6/26/02 -0400, you wrote: >Greetings All! > >I was just sitting here at my desk, bored out of my mind over this script >I am yet again making revisions to. And I have decided that I am going to >quit my job and go into business for myself. I am going to make custom >clothing/costumes for me. That's it, definitely a niche market, but one I >think I can fill quiet well. Why you might ask, would I want to fill such >a small niche market? Well, let me explain... >Thank you! >Kit > >PS - In case you haven't quite, this is meant totally tounge-in-cheek. (or >is that tongue-and-cheek?) Have fun with it! I hope you got a small laugh. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 28 15:52:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA32687 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 15:52:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5SJYFC07494; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 13:34:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5SJYEj04830; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 13:34:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5RDs7j04604 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2002 07:54:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a252.in-tch.com [66.62.107.52]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g5RDecb23790 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2002 07:40:38 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3D1B1A4E.D5D36131@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shoulder Roll "tutorial" website-feedback please References: <001001c21d6a$1d58e860$6601a8c0@Home> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 07:59:42 -0600 I've never actually made any of my outfits with shoulder rolls, if only because I've already got the shoulders of a line backer, and figured the rolls would just make them *bigger,* god help me! However, your tutorial seems pretty clear and helpful. My only comment would be that my browser was taking a really long time to pull up the whole article (probably because of those nice, clear pictures?). It might make it more accessible to those of use who are stuck in the slow lane if it was broken up into separate pages? or smaller pictures with links to larger ones? Of course, I'm completely web-ignorant, so I dunno what's possible or not. Hmmm....I might have to try these some day, when I finish my 18th c. outfits, and my early Anglo-Saxon outfits, and my 10th c. Norse outfits, and that ItalianRen with the hemp-corded bodice, and my gothic fitted gowns, ......;-) --Sue, garb hound in almost any century..... Saragrace knauf wrote: > > I have posted a 'how to' on shoulder rolls on my website. I would > appreciate any feedback on clarity etc. Thanks!! > Click on the last selection "How to make a Shoulder Roll" @ > > http://www.saragrace.net/2A_Cost_by_sg.htm _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 28 15:56:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA32704 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 15:56:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5SJbcC08257; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 13:37:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5SJbbj07473; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 13:37:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02.attbi.com [204.127.202.62]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5S5WFj27481 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2002 23:32:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default.attbi.com ([24.245.40.153]) by sccrmhc02.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020628053210.ERKO6023.sccrmhc02.attbi.com@default.attbi.com> for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 05:32:10 +0000 Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20020628001953.03552940@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: dannw@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Subject: Re: [h-cost] Regency era parasol frames... In-Reply-To: <3D1A796F.C1620DB4@misc.com> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20020603190959.032a55a0@mail.attbi.com> <5.0.0.25.2.20020626201455.02d12650@mail.attbi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 00:28:19 -0500 Thank you. I've found both those sites but they seem to only sell the covered parasols not just the frames. Does anyone have any ideas? Cheers, Danielle At 07:33 PM 6/26/2002 -0700, you wrote: >To Danielle- > >Are you making a doll for the Regency era? This looks like a doll >making supplier, in which case, the parasol would be too tiny for a human. > >You might check out: > >http://home.earthlink.net/~gchristen/Parasols.html >(does a carriage parasol which might be small enough) >or > >http://www.originals-by-kay.com/gifts/default.shtm >(might be too large since this site focuses on CW). > >Good luck, > >Theresa Eacker _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 28 16:13:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA00360 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 16:13:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5SJt3C10116; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 13:55:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5SJt2j16956; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 13:55:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.61]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5SJsCj16558 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 13:54:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-164-48-38.c3-0.gth-ubr1.lnh-gth.md.cable.rcn.com ([216.164.48.38] helo=megan2) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with smtp (Exim 3.35 #5) id 17O1on-0007Gh-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 15:54:09 -0400 From: "Megan M." To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] historic "sunglasses" for Renaissance faires Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 15:59:11 -0400 All this debate about glasses is very entertaining and informative, but I have to admit that is one area I do not concern myself with overmuch. I require glasses to find the end of my nose, and cannot wear contacts, and my prescription and pupil size make me not a candidate for current forms of eye surgery. So I just wear my glasses, and hope that everyone understands that while it may be a bit jarring in effect, medical reasons require it. I also must wear a hat if in sunlight for any length of time, so at least I try to make it a straw hat that is not too nasty-looking. Better than the Tilley I used to wear. While I try to be as authentic as I can, I will not sacrifice health for it. That includes wearing support stockings if necessary underneath it all. Each person's need for and level of authenticity may vary, of course, and just because I need to depart from it here and there does not mean everyone else needs to. That said, if there was a particular style of glasses with earpieces that was actually Elizabethan or earlier, I would consider looking for a modern look-alike and getting prescriptions made just because I think it would be a neat thing to do. (Off my soapbox and back to lurk mode) -Megan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 28 16:32:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA00446 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 16:32:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5SKEBC11727; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 14:14:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5SKEAj27456; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 14:14:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5SKD7j26872 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 14:13:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.127.220]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GYF002APMTU8R@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 13:13:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Regency era parasol frames... In-reply-to: <5.0.0.25.2.20020628001953.03552940@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020628131050.00cad630@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <3D1A796F.C1620DB4@misc.com> <5.0.0.25.2.20020603190959.032a55a0@mail.attbi.com> <5.0.0.25.2.20020626201455.02d12650@mail.attbi.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 13:11:19 -0700 >Thank you. I've found both those sites but they seem to only sell the >covered parasols not just the frames. Does anyone have any ideas? Look into wedding parasols. These tend to run smaller than umbrella-size. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 28 16:32:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA00451 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 16:32:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5SKEHC11749; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 14:14:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5SKEHj27515; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 14:14:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5SKD8j26881 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 14:13:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.127.220]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GYF002APMTU8R@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 13:13:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: [h-cost] historic "sunglasses" for Renaissance faires In-reply-to: X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020628131216.00c82470@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 13:12:56 -0700 >That said, if there was a particular style of glasses with earpieces that >was actually Elizabethan or earlier, I would consider looking for a modern >look-alike and getting prescriptions made just because I think it would be a >neat thing to do. Jas. Townsend has period-looking glasses frames good for a variety of periods. Find them on the web. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 28 17:24:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA00789 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 17:24:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5SL62C16642; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 15:06:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5SL61j24220; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 15:06:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fnal.gov (heffalump.fnal.gov [131.225.9.20]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5SL5Lj23891 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 15:05:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from xena.fnal.gov ([131.225.122.154]) by smtp.fnal.gov (PMDF V6.0-24 #37519) with ESMTP id <0GYF00805P8UA4@smtp.fnal.gov> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 16:05:18 -0500 (CDT) From: Deb Baddorf Subject: RE: [h-cost] historic "sunglasses" for Renaissance faires In-reply-to: <4.3.1.2.20020628131216.00c82470@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: baddorf@mail.inil.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20020628160452.00af44b0@mail.inil.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 16:05:18 -0500 At 01:12 PM 6/28/2002 -0700, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: >>That said, if there was a particular style of glasses with earpieces that >>was actually Elizabethan or earlier, I would consider looking for a modern >>look-alike and getting prescriptions made just because I think it would be a >>neat thing to do. > >Jas. Townsend has period-looking glasses frames good for a variety of >periods. Find them on the web. at http://www.jastown.com (just a happy customer) Deb _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 28 17:26:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA00800 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 17:26:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5SL81C16783; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 15:08:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5SL80j25246; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 15:08:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13305.mail.yahoo.com (web13305.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.41]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g5SL7bj25054 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 15:07:37 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020628210727.72829.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13305.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 22:07:27 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: RE: [h-cost] historic "sunglasses" for Renaissance faires To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 22:07:27 +0100 (BST) --- "Megan M." wrote: > > That said, if there was a particular style of glasses with earpieces that > was actually Elizabethan or earlier, I would consider looking for a modern > look-alike and getting prescriptions made just because I think it would be a > neat thing to do. No megan, I'm sorry, there are no, and I repeat NO glasses with earpieces before the mid 18th century, but what I personally find looks better than any modern shape of glasses is using very simple metal round ones. They are not and will never be authentic for anything before the 18th century, but I think it just looks better and makes a nicer effect, you could try that? Have a go perhaps at taking a picture of yourself in kit and then with a graphics proggie try to put a simple round frame on your eyes, and ponder if it does look better. You might like it more. Just an idea Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 28 17:27:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA00806 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 17:27:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5SL92C16866; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 15:09:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5SL91j25775; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 15:09:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5SL8Yj25539 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 15:08:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dandy.net (pvil2009.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.237.9]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA15312 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 17:07:49 -0400 Message-ID: <3D1CCEFF.D7FE86FE@dandy.net> From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] historic "sunglasses" for Renaissance faires References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 17:02:55 -0400 Hi, All. I was curious, and went to Mark's site to read the thread on eyeglasses. I found, interestingly enough, besides a plug for my wife's business, a note about a painting by Raphael of Pope Leo X, circa 1517, that purportedly showed a convex-concave lens for correction of myopia. I wish I could see what is supposedly it's grind, but the item in question in the painting (Pitti Palace, Florence and dated 1518) is a magnifying glass which doesn't look at all concave. In addition, myopics would have to wear the lens all of the time in order to provide the proper vision correction. As a myopic, I can see print just fine right in front of me, so a magnifying glass regardless of the grind is of no use (myopia being, as it is colloquially termed, "near-sightedness") to my disability. It is possible that optical quality glass (assumedly clear through the addition of agents to the metal, as raw glass is called) may have, at some times, been compromised, and that the glass in it's more natural state of various shades of green may have been made up into lenses. However, as MaggiRos pointed out, these lenses would have been of little use while walking down the street. All things considered, the evidence points to nothing conclusive that would allow anyone to recreate a reasonable copy of "period" sunglasses. Of course, there might be some evidence at the next archaeological dig. If nothing else, the research alone has been a good example of what sometimes happens when you choose a subject and then try to document it. I call it "reverse documentation", and it sometimes turns up interesting info, but rarely does what the person creating it wishes to do. Mike T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 28 17:30:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA00830 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 17:30:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5SLC1C17131; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 15:12:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5SLC0j27251; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 15:12:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com (imo-m02.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.5]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5SLBmj27161 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 15:11:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Azelana@aol.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 7.a6.284cfc4b (3924); Fri, 28 Jun 2002 17:11:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Azelana@aol.com Message-ID: To: h-costume@net.indra.com CC: torsten@vs-books.de MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 124 Subject: [h-cost] Re: sengle Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 17:11:28 EDT Dear Torsten Verhulsdonk, This may be too late to help you, but I found out today that "sengle" was a person, and may not be a fabric at all. Claude de la Sengle was Grandmaster of "the Sovereign Military and Hospitaller Order of St. John of Jerusalem of Rhodes and of Malta" (otherwise known as the "Knights of Malta" or the "Knights Hospitaller") from 1553 to 1557. While I cannot be sure "de la Sengle" does NOT mean "of the cloth", I do know that in Spanish nomenclature "de la" tends to mean roughly "of the House of". --Gillian _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 28 17:39:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA00865 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 17:39:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5SLL1C17844; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 15:21:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5SLL1j01918; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 15:21:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5SLK7j01451 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 15:20:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dandy.net (pvil2009.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.237.9]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA19825 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 17:19:22 -0400 Message-ID: <3D1CD1C8.B5661FDF@dandy.net> From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] historic "sunglasses" for Renaissance faires References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 17:14:49 -0400 Well said Megan. Please do not construe from my comments that no-one should look after their health and wellbeing merely because it was "not period". I am "not period", and had I survived all of my childhood accidents, diseases and traumas (not likely), I would be quite blind (in the "period" sense, like "naked" sometimes meant running around in your skivvies, not decently dressed by societal standards). We are not all first-person historical interpreters, but we are at least attempting to recreate history as best as possible. I have asked people at our site to remove modern jewelry, sunglasses, etc. when they are serving as interpretive staff, but if safety is at stake, the public can understand. Only if you are in such a position to make reasonable changes should you do so, and I wouldn't ever ask anyone to be unsafe (uncomfortable, perhaps, but I never ask anyone to do what I'm not willing to do myself) Mike T. > Each person's need for and level of authenticity may > vary, of course, and just because I need to depart from it here and there > does not mean everyone else needs to. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 28 19:40:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA01346 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 19:40:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5SNM2C26729; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 17:22:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5SNM0j25357; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 17:22:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f115.pav2.hotmail.com [64.4.37.115]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5SNLmj25307 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 17:21:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 16:21:43 -0700 Received: from 12.224.202.183 by pv2fd.pav2.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 23:21:43 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.224.202.183] From: "Jennifer Sena" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] A definate decision Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Jun 2002 23:21:43.0375 (UTC) FILETIME=[907095F0:01C21EFA] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 16:21:43 -0700 >Kit, > >Thank you... >You certainly lightened my day with this one! >Sounds like you've hit upon the dream job for everyone on this list. > >Sheryl Nance-Durst > > >At 06:11 PM 6/26/02 -0400, you wrote: >>Greetings All! >> >>I was just sitting here at my desk, bored out of my mind over this script >>I am yet again making revisions to. And I have decided that I am going to >>quit my job and go into business for myself. I am going to make custom >>clothing/costumes for me. That's it, definitely a niche market, but one I >>think I can fill quiet well. Why you might ask, would I want to fill such >>a small niche market? Well, let me explain... > > > >>Thank you! >>Kit I did mostly that, but I can't afford myself anymore and need to find another job. :} Jennifer Sena Distant Designs http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!! _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 28 20:03:14 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA01444 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 20:03:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5SNj2C28102; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 17:45:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5SNj1j03092; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 17:45:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt6.ihug.co.nz (grunt6.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.46]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5SNiEj02848 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 17:44:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p694-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.194.186] by grunt6.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 17O5PP-0007mi-00; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 11:44:12 +1200 Message-ID: <002101c21efd$b4292630$bac2adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: <20020628210727.72829.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] historic "sunglasses" for Renaissance faires MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 11:44:10 +1200 > No megan, I'm sorry, there are no, and I repeat NO glasses with earpieces > before the mid 18th century, but what I personally find looks better than any > modern shape of glasses is using very simple metal round ones. They are not and > will never be authentic for anything before the 18th century, but I think it > just looks better and makes a nicer effect, you could try that? Have a go > perhaps at taking a picture of yourself in kit and then with a graphics proggie > try to put a simple round frame on your eyes, and ponder if it does look > better. You might like it more. They used to be in fashion when I wore glasses:) I remember trying on a pair of 19thC style glasses (with the curvy bendy side pieces). While my head shape really made them a bad shape (that paritcular pair I should add, I've seen others that would work). They would be a really good item for your kit too:). I do a lot of stage work (this year has been particularly quiet, but still). I'm looking at finding a set with minimal correction (I'm, only -2.25 in each eye- so get away most of the time with no lenses, or nice thin contacts) so that I have a nice addition to my collection of accessories etc. And for those wondering, when you have contacts it's even *more* important to shade your eyes from *uv* light. Actually glass itself is quite good at filtering some UV light. Couple that with a herty dose of chloroquinine everyday, I'm looking at needing more than a hat and to stay in the shade at any outdoor event. http://icare4u.com/FocusOn.htm Read about macula degredation, I also have blue eyes. And about sunglasses On the 8th Aug I'm getting my eyes checked.. a full hour of tests to make sure the medication hasn't started to cause this. No I don't give a damn whether sunglasses are period or not.. and if I do go to an event outdoors, I'll limit the jarring effect (though people here are *really* laid back) in what ever way I can without causing myself undue stress. Now if only they could make UV filtering contacts.... michaela _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 28 21:25:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA01701 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 21:25:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5T162C01663; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 19:06:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5T160j24583; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 19:06:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5T15Mj24322 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 19:05:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.127.220]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GYG00GFA0CXK2@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 18:05:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: [h-cost] historic "sunglasses" for Renaissance faires In-reply-to: <20020628210727.72829.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com (Unverified) To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020628180211.00a6ff00@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 18:05:16 -0700 >NO glasses with earpieces >before the mid 18th century, People keep saying this, and I keep remembering the ear-loop things I see in period paintings. Is what you are saying that these ear-loop things are not identical to the non-loop ear pieces on modern glasses? Please be specific, because I remain confused. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jun 28 22:16:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA01916 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 22:16:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5T1vrC03692; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 19:57:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5T1vcj11279; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 19:57:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.61]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5T1uIj10476 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 19:56:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-164-48-38.c3-0.gth-ubr1.lnh-gth.md.cable.rcn.com ([216.164.48.38] helo=megan2) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with smtp (Exim 3.35 #5) id 17O7TF-0000N0-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 21:56:17 -0400 From: "Megan M." To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] historic "sunglasses" for Renaissance faires Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020628160452.00af44b0@mail.inil.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 22:00:35 -0400 So many great comments about glasses.... from looking at the link to Jas. Townsend, the glasses look like what I call "John Lennon" glasses, so that would be the best "modern" equivalent for those like me to try. Not bad. I can cope with that idea. My last pair even looks a bit like the 19th century ones alread, certainly good enough for the "10 foot rule". Of course it also helps that I am not in any interpretive roles that require the perfect look, but I've always rather liked that type of frame anyway. So I'll look for something like that next pair.... Thanks everyone. -Megan -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On Behalf Of Deb Baddorf Sent: Friday, June 28, 2002 5:05 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] historic "sunglasses" for Renaissance faires At 01:12 PM 6/28/2002 -0700, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: >>That said, if there was a particular style of glasses with earpieces that >>was actually Elizabethan or earlier, I would consider looking for a modern >>look-alike and getting prescriptions made just because I think it would be a >>neat thing to do. > >Jas. Townsend has period-looking glasses frames good for a variety of >periods. Find them on the web. at http://www.jastown.com (just a happy customer) Deb _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jun 29 01:05:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA02464 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 01:05:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5T4k3C16374; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 22:46:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5T4k0n11558; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 22:46:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5T4jvn11539 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 22:45:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id AC0572B01D0; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 23:48:05 -0500 Message-ID: <008801c21f27$9c4ef100$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] You've Come a Long Way Baby! Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 00:44:09 -0400 I actually have an old Virginia Slims shirt that I wear frequently that has printed on it "You've Come A Long Way Baby"... it is my motto. I am going to bring back memories for the old timers on h-costume. On Sunday, June 30, will be my 6th anniversary of having a website on the internet. I developed the first site when I was a student in college and had a lot of encouragement from the members of h-costume. The site was called Historic Costume Research and was the foundation to my business. This was the little site that grew and grew... when I graduated and turned it into my business, The Costume Gallery. Now if you want to see that first website that went up on June 30, 1996, go to http://www.costumegallery.com/OldSite/ . It was more or less a link site, but it is fun to see the costume websites that were around at that time. A good many of the links are not functional, but you will be surprised by the sites that are still around. So please scroll down the whole page. I remember the day we celebrated because the website had 99 visitors in one day. We jumped for joy around my house. Now we average between 13,000 to 16,000 visitors a day, during Sept-Oct that number goes up to 30,000 a day. It just amazes me... 10 years ago, I thought I was the only one who loved old clothes. To jog the memory more... when we became business, in 1997, I hosted costume websites. We don't do that anymore, but here are some of the sites that we hosted and/or was their webmaster: Costume Society of America: Oct. '97-Nov. 2000 (hosted and webmaster) Sally Queen & Associates: June '97-June '99 (hosted and webmaster) Nicole Kipar's site: Feb. '98- Aug. '99 (hosted) Pompadour site: July '98- Aug. '99 (hosted) Rizzo's Reproductions (now Rebecca's Reproductions): Jan. '98- Sept. 2001 (hosted) There are several more sites. We can't even count how many webpages and images there are on the Gallery, Ball, and Classroom. A guess is over 2,000 webpages and 3,500 images. That little 1996 webpage came a long way because of the support, encouragement, suggestions, and love that the people of h-costume gave over the years. I would sincerely like to thank you! Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jun 29 03:33:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA12251 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 03:33:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5T7FBC25679; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 01:15:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5T7F1603688; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 01:15:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f139.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.139]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5T7EK603456 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 01:14:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 00:14:15 -0700 Received: from 24.55.6.126 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 07:14:14 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.55.6.126] From: "Maggie Secara" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shoulder Roll "tutorial" website-feedback please Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Jun 2002 07:14:15.0047 (UTC) FILETIME=[935A6970:01C21F3C] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 00:14:14 -0700 The neat thing about shoulder rolls, and shoulder treatments in general on elizabethans, is that they Do broaden the shoulders in balance with the bum rool, and around the corsetted middle. No matter what your sillouette in modern clothes, Elizabethans (Court clothes) allow you to re-shape yourself. Big shoulders and hips give you a smaller waist by definition :) Give it another try. For myself, I would back away from making them the size SaraGrace chose (everyone has their own sense of proportion) but the illusion does work. Worked for them, works for us ;) MaggiRos >From: Sue Clemenger >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shoulder Roll "tutorial" website-feedback please >Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 07:59:42 -0600 > >I've never actually made any of my outfits with shoulder rolls, if only >because I've already got the shoulders of a line backer, and figured the >rolls would just make them *bigger,* god help me! >However, your tutorial seems pretty clear and helpful. My only comment >would be that my browser was taking a really long time to pull up the >whole article (probably because of those nice, clear pictures?). It >might make it more accessible to those of use who are stuck in the slow >lane if it was broken up into separate pages? or smaller pictures with >links to larger ones? Of course, I'm completely web-ignorant, so I dunno >what's possible or not. >Hmmm....I might have to try these some day, when I finish my 18th c. >outfits, and my early Anglo-Saxon outfits, and my 10th c. Norse outfits, >and that ItalianRen with the hemp-corded bodice, and my gothic fitted >gowns, ......;-) >--Sue, garb hound in almost any century..... > >Saragrace knauf wrote: > > > > I have posted a 'how to' on shoulder rolls on my website. I would > > appreciate any feedback on clarity etc. Thanks!! > > Click on the last selection "How to make a Shoulder Roll" @ > > > > http://www.saragrace.net/2A_Cost_by_sg.htm >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Cheers, Maggie Secara ~The Elizabethan World is at http://ren.dm.net _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jun 29 03:43:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA03139 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 03:43:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5T7OgC25827; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 01:24:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5T7Of606616; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 01:24:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f236.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.236]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5T7LI605534 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 01:21:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 00:21:13 -0700 Received: from 24.55.6.126 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 07:21:12 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.55.6.126] From: "Maggie Secara" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] historic "sunglasses" for Renaissance faires Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Jun 2002 07:21:13.0281 (UTC) FILETIME=[8CA3DB10:01C21F3D] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 00:21:12 -0700 I think that, like shoes, this is an issue that just has to be managed. As long as the necessary accomodation doesn't draw attention to itself, just do it. Little wire frame glasses "look" like they must be period, to most people, and are almost invisible to anyone who is already in a period frameof mind. When I first started this costumed madness, I wore photo-grey, aviator frames with a heavy prescription. I've always said my contacts are my most expensive prop. :-) If you can't wear contacts, but can find some nice wire frames, and you're not involved in deep re-enactment (in which case, you must accomodate the rules, not the other way around, but that's another conversation) then the effort is all that matters. >From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: RE: [h-cost] historic "sunglasses" for Renaissance faires >Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 13:12:56 -0700 > > >>That said, if there was a particular style of glasses with earpieces that >>was actually Elizabethan or earlier, I would consider looking for a modern >>look-alike and getting prescriptions made just because I think it would be >>a >>neat thing to do. > >Jas. Townsend has period-looking glasses frames good for a variety of >periods. Find them on the web. > > >Kayta > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( >/----\ /---\)) > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Cheers, Maggie Secara ~The Elizabethan World is at http://ren.dm.net _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jun 29 03:45:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA09575 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 03:45:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5T7RRC25905; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 01:27:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5T7RR607423; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 01:27:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pimout3-int.prodigy.net (pimout3-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.102]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5T7Fs603971 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 01:15:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from flash.net (dialup-64.152.241.94.Dial1.Houston1.Level3.net [64.152.241.94]) by pimout3-int.prodigy.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g5T7FpI293380 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 03:15:52 -0400 Message-ID: <3D1D47B3.528A7DA8@flash.net> From: Charlene Charette X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] historic "sunglasses" for Renaissance faires References: <20020628210727.72829.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> <002101c21efd$b4292630$bac2adcb@michaela> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 00:37:55 -0500 michaela wrote: > Now if only they could make UV filtering contacts.... Acuvue contact lenses block UV. From their web site (http://www.acuvue.com/products/uv_disclaimer.html): UV-absorbing contact lenses are NOT substitutes for protective UV-absorbing eyewear such as UV-absorbing goggles or sunglasses because they do not completely cover the eye and surrounding area. ... UV-blocking contact lenses help provide protection against harmful UV radiation. However, clinical studies have not been done to demonstrate that wearing UV-blocking contact lenses reduces the risk of developing cataracts or other eye disorders. Consult your Eye Care Professional for more information. ACUVUE® Brand Contact Lenses block approximately 82% of the UV-A rays, and 97% of UV-B rays. --Charlene -- An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you know and what you don't. --Anatole France _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jun 29 04:05:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA11539 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 04:05:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5T7l6C26382; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 01:47:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5T7l4614056; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 01:47:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f263.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.236.141]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5T7XQ609344 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 01:33:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 00:33:21 -0700 Received: from 24.55.6.126 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 07:33:21 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.55.6.126] From: "Maggie Secara" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] You've Come a Long Way Baby! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Jun 2002 07:33:21.0476 (UTC) FILETIME=[3EAD9840:01C21F3F] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 00:33:21 -0700 HAPPY ANNIVERSARY Penny!!! This place wouldn't be the same without you. And yes, that's a good thing! You--and we--have come a wonderfully long way. MaggiRos >From: "Penny Ladnier" >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: "h-costume" >Subject: [h-cost] You've Come a Long Way Baby! >Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 00:44:09 -0400 > >I actually have an old Virginia Slims shirt that I wear frequently that has >printed on it "You've Come A Long Way Baby"... it is my motto. > >I am going to bring back memories for the old timers on h-costume. On >Sunday, June 30, will be my 6th anniversary of having a website on the >internet. I developed the first site when I was a student in college and >had a lot of encouragement from the members of h-costume. The site was >called Historic Costume Research and was the foundation to my business. >This was the little site that grew and grew... when I graduated and turned >it into my business, The Costume Gallery. Now if you want to see that >first >website that went up on June 30, 1996, go to >http://www.costumegallery.com/OldSite/ . It was more or less a link site, >but it is fun to see the costume websites that were around at that time. A >good many of the links are not functional, but you will be surprised by the >sites that are still around. So please scroll down the whole page. > >I remember the day we celebrated because the website had 99 visitors in one >day. We jumped for joy around my house. Now we average between 13,000 to >16,000 visitors a day, during Sept-Oct that number goes up to 30,000 a day. >It just amazes me... 10 years ago, I thought I was the only one who loved >old clothes. > >To jog the memory more... when we became business, in 1997, I hosted >costume >websites. We don't do that anymore, but here are some of the sites that we >hosted and/or was their webmaster: > >Costume Society of America: Oct. '97-Nov. 2000 (hosted and webmaster) >Sally Queen & Associates: June '97-June '99 (hosted and webmaster) >Nicole Kipar's site: Feb. '98- Aug. '99 (hosted) >Pompadour site: July '98- Aug. '99 (hosted) >Rizzo's Reproductions (now Rebecca's Reproductions): Jan. '98- Sept. 2001 >(hosted) >There are several more sites. > >We can't even count how many webpages and images there are on the Gallery, >Ball, and Classroom. A guess is over 2,000 webpages and 3,500 images. > >That little 1996 webpage came a long way because of the support, >encouragement, suggestions, and love that the people of h-costume gave over >the years. I would sincerely like to thank you! > >Penny Ladnier >Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom >http://www.costumegallery.com >http://www.costumeclassroom.com > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Cheers, Maggie Secara ~The Elizabethan World is at http://ren.dm.net _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jun 29 04:19:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA11586 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 04:19:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5T80hC26965; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 02:00:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5T80h618683; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 02:00:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt4.ihug.co.nz (grunt4.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.44]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5T7gW612563 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 01:42:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p398-tnt7.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.207.144] by grunt4.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 17OCsG-0007xC-00; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 19:42:29 +1200 Message-ID: <001c01c21f40$86dc2ea0$90cfadcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: <20020628210727.72829.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> <002101c21efd$b4292630$bac2adcb@michaela> <3D1D47B3.528A7DA8@flash.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] historic "sunglasses" for Renaissance faires MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 19:42:30 +1200 <> Then they're not really what one needs;) Though if they made a kind so that they covered all the eye (aren't there some like that for FX use?) and one wore them with multiple other forms of UV blockage (though i don't know if sunscreen is concidered safe around the eyes).. Let's just stick with unobtrusive sunglasses eh;) michaela ... <> _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jun 29 11:30:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA12651 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 11:30:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5TFC2C00728; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 09:12:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5TFC0Q12862; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 09:12:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m8.boston.juno.com (m8.boston.juno.com [64.136.24.71]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5TFBEQ12721 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 09:11:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/Osm/wy7SA4gRBErmCv8EUIQ="> Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m8.boston.juno.com (jqueuemail) id G6GVUA33; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 11:10:41 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: Cley@juno.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] historic "sunglasses" for Renaissance faires Message-ID: <20020629.081002.-186239.2.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,9-10,13-21,23-24,26-31 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 07:59:43 +0000 Be sure your eye doctor does a bulls-eye retinopathy test. Problems from meds often start in the center of your visual field--you won't notice it, because your eyes will try to work around it, but this test will catch any problems there. The good news is that the problem is usually completely reversible (change the meds). Have the test done on a yearly basis. I started doing it when I was on ketoprofen, which makes your eyes extremely UV sensitive, and had to wear dark, double UV protected sunglasses on dark cloudy days, and was on it for about 7 years. Been off it now for nearly that long, no problems here. If someone gives you the Great Authenticity Speech because of a medical condition, smack 'em upside the head. Ignorance can be trained out of people. Good luck! I hope all goes well. Arlys (SCA, An Tir) > On the 8th Aug I'm getting my eyes checked.. a full hour of tests to > make sure the medication hasn't started to cause this. No I don't give a > damn whether sunglasses are period or not.. and if I do go to an event > outdoors, I'll limit the jarring effect (though people here are *really* laid > back) in what ever way I can without causing myself undue stress. > > Now if only they could make UV filtering contacts.... > > michaela _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jun 29 13:39:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA13198 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 13:39:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5THL2C05560; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 11:21:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5THL1Q11554; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 11:21:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r07.mx.aol.com (imo-r07.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.103]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5THKaQ11453 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 11:20:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo-r07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 6.35.28f6dda1 (4593) for ; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 13:20:28 -0400 (EDT) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Message-ID: <35.28f6dda1.2a4f465c@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] You've Come a Long Way Baby! To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_35.28f6dda1.2a4f465c_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10509 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 13:20:28 EDT --part1_35.28f6dda1.2a4f465c_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It seems like yesterday! Happy Anniversary, Penny! angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com Theatrical Costume Design "See! How she leans her cheek upon her hand, O! That I were a glove upon that hand, That I might touch that cheek." Romeo & Juliet, II, ii - W. Shakespeare --part1_35.28f6dda1.2a4f465c_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It seems like yesterday!  Happy Anniversary, Penny!

angela
+++++
Angela F. Lazear
Cabbage Rose Costumes
http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com
Theatrical Costume Design

"See! How she leans her cheek upon her hand,
O! That I were a glove upon that hand,
That I might touch that cheek."
Romeo & Juliet, II, ii - W. Shakespeare
 --part1_35.28f6dda1.2a4f465c_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jun 29 14:32:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA13462 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 14:32:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5TIE5C07503; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 12:14:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5TIE1Q23215; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 12:14:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13305.mail.yahoo.com (web13305.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.41]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g5TIBoQ22794 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 12:11:50 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020629181149.20558.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13305.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 19:11:49 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: RE: [h-cost] historic "sunglasses" for Renaissance faires To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20020628180211.00a6ff00@mail.frys.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 19:11:49 +0100 (BST) --- Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > >NO glasses with earpieces > >before the mid 18th century, > > People keep saying this, and I keep remembering the ear-loop things I see > in period paintings. Is what you are saying that these ear-loop things are > not identical to the non-loop ear pieces on modern glasses? Please be > specific, because I remain confused. It is sometimes difficult to be specific when the foreign language vocabulary is missing :-) anyway, the loops that you see are actually thread loops, attached to leg-less glasses. they were like what in germany is called a 'zwicker', glasses that were pinched onto the bridge of the nose without any earpieces, but some attached thread loops which were looped around the ears. Helped a little bit to keepthem up. the modern idea of earpieces in the form of 'legs' attached to the actual 'zwicker' glass piece, which can be opened and closed, is mid 18th century. I hope my strange use of odd vocabulary makes more sense now... Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jun 29 15:33:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA13694 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 15:33:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5TJF4C10506; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 13:15:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5TJF2Q07674; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 13:15:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5TJEnQ07582 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 13:14:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dnyeaqvf (r8p40.directcon.net [209.79.209.89]) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id g5TJEfq4007428; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 12:14:42 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020629113027.00d80560@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Subject: [h-cost] H-Cost: Wench Costume Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 11:30:27 -0700 I'm trying to trace the history of the "wench" costume meant to represent 16th century lower class women's clothing. I've had good luck finding the origins of the style, in woodcuts and painting, and there's ample documentation for late 20th century interpretation thereof. What I'm looking for now is some evidence of when the style crystalized into a conventional "costume". It seems to have been present from the earliest days of Hollywood, so I'm suspecting I should look earlier, possibly in the 19th century. Can anyone recommend books, websites, etc, that might help? Margo "One Tough Costumer" See the Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jun 29 16:13:10 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA13972 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 16:13:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5TJt3C12223; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 13:55:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5TJt1Q17713; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 13:55:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r09.mx.aol.com (imo-r09.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.105]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5TJsbQ17593 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 13:54:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from FyneHats2@aol.com by imo-r09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 6.150.1017f049 (3972) for ; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 15:54:22 -0400 (EDT) From: FyneHats2@aol.com Message-ID: <150.1017f049.2a4f6a6d@aol.com> To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10512 Subject: [h-cost] Re:Costume Gallery Anniversary Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 15:54:21 EDT Congratulations on 6 years of blood, sweat, tears and LOVE. It's folk like you Penny who bring to us a wealth of costuming information we could not possibly get in one place. Thank you, thank you, thank you! May you continue on with joy. Donna Scarfe Fyne Hats By Felicity Period Headgear for Past Ages www.fynehatsbyfelicity.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jun 29 17:34:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA15887 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 17:34:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5TLG3C15192; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 15:16:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5TLG1Q05424; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 15:16:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5TLFCQ05264 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 15:15:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [136.152.196.155] (as3-4-169.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.155]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.10.2) with ESMTP id g5TLFAZ05575 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 14:15:11 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020629113027.00d80560@pop.directcon.net> References: <3.0.6.32.20020629113027.00d80560@pop.directcon.net> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] H-Cost: Wench Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g5TLFCQ05264 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 13:39:36 -0700 At 11:30 AM -0700 6/29/02, Margo Anderson wrote: >I'm trying to trace the history of the "wench" costume meant to represent >16th century lower class women's clothing. I've had good luck finding the >origins of the style, in woodcuts and painting, and there's ample >documentation for late 20th century interpretation thereof.  > >What I'm looking for now is some evidence of when the style crystalized >into a conventional "costume". It seems to have been present from the >earliest days of Hollywood, so I'm suspecting I should look earlier, >possibly in the 19th century. Can anyone recommend books, websites, etc, >that might help? You may want to look at 18/19th century "folk costume" styles, since these probably influenced Hollywood notions of "ancient dress". In particular, the motif of the sleeveless bodice is likely to have been influenced by central European folk costume. (VIsualize the "Pauli Girl" from the beer label and superimpose it on "wench costume".) Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jun 29 20:37:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA18670 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 20:37:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5U0IhC22492; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 18:18:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5U0IfQ14662; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 18:18:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f86.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.86]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5U0FIQ13943 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 18:15:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 17:15:12 -0700 Received: from 66.72.183.45 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 30 Jun 2002 00:15:12 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.72.183.45] From: "Parsla Liepa" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] historic "sunglasses" for Renaissance faires Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Jun 2002 00:15:12.0726 (UTC) FILETIME=[33C66F60:01C21FCB] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: pliepa@deepthought.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 20:15:12 -0400 >I think amber would always have been >too valuable to cut big chunks up into thin slices. Certainly, it's said that Viking women displayed their wealth by all the amber they wore, et cetera, et cetera, but amber really is quite common. (I want to say that amber was probably even more common for the Vikings than it is for modern people in that area, but that's pure speculation on my part.) You can buy amber very inexpensively in countries on the Baltic Sea, and when I was in Latvia three years ago, you could occasionally find a piece of amber washed up on the seashore. (I've got a chunk about the size of a walnut that I found.) But then again, amber is a part of my Latvian heritage. I wear a necklace or earrings or something amber most every day, and it always shocks me when people ooh and aah over it. It's pretty, sure, but I'm not as impressed by it as others always seem to be. Parsla _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jun 29 20:53:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA18711 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 20:53:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5U0YhC23149; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 18:34:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5U0YhQ18052; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 18:34:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13305.mail.yahoo.com (web13305.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.41]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g5U0QrQ16458 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 18:26:54 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020630002647.58971.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13305.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 30 Jun 2002 01:26:47 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] H-Cost: Wench Costume To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 01:26:47 +0100 (BST) > You may want to look at 18/19th century "folk costume" styles, since > these probably influenced Hollywood notions of "ancient dress". In > particular, the motif of the sleeveless bodice is likely to have been > influenced by central European folk costume. Not only that, look at late 17th c working class clothing and you'll be surprised how many of those skirt and sleevesss (because of being tied on) bodices over linen chemise have this uncanny resemblance of the 'wench look'. Just look at the following and don't you tell me your first thought is not 'oh no, not that stupid 'come hither' wench look again' *laughs* Jan Siberichts, 1660s, Dutch: http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/art/s/siberech/thewager.jpg Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jun 29 21:46:00 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA18892 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 21:45:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5U1RkC25001; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 19:27:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5U1RhQ28393; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 19:27:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt6.ihug.co.nz (grunt6.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.46]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5U1GiQ26348 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 19:16:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p111-nas7.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.217.111] by grunt6.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 17OTKT-000750-00; Sun, 30 Jun 2002 13:16:42 +1200 Message-ID: <002301c21fd3$cc2ae940$6fd9adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: <20020629.081002.-186239.2.Cley@juno.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] historic "sunglasses" for Renaissance faires MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 13:16:40 +1200 > Be sure your eye doctor does a bulls-eye retinopathy test. Problems from > meds often start in the center of your visual field--you won't notice it, > because your eyes will try to work around it, but this test will catch > any problems there. That's what the first half hour is for:). I got the appointment booked in May.. for Aug 8. yeah. yay. Still I have a heart specialist appointment set for next year sometime, so at elast it's not as bad as that. The good news is that the problem is usually > completely reversible (change the meds). Wish I could, but it would been going onto Methotrexate which is an even nastier immuno suppressent drug than the Salazopyrine I'm on. I have RA and on chloroquinine and Salazopyrine as my DMARDS. And prednisone and celebrex and rocaltrol and tramal... the scarey thing is while I am in so much pain this winter, it would probably be a whole lot worse than if I wasn't on the stuff. Fortunately i haven't had any negative side effects.. but I did go yellow during the summer. Hehehe, so for any outdoor events I'm going to be covered head to foot anyway;) > If someone gives you the Great Authenticity Speech because of a medical > condition, smack 'em upside the head. Ignorance can be trained out of > people. heheh, I just remember that these people have opinions perhaps not so well informed as they think. There was a woman on the yahoo costuming group who had a cote made of *linen* ( I think the style was not strictly authentic, but it was linen). She was snarked behind her back rather fiercly for wearing *panne velvet*. So the moral is, live to what you know to be best for you. Life is just too damn short. And don't belittle anyone else as it might be you than needs to look again:) > Good luck! I hope all goes well. Thanks:). I am a bit worried, I have eye strain problems as it is. I just don't need anything else on top of what I'm coping with;) michaela nope, no new cossies begun really. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jun 29 23:13:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA19225 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 23:13:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5U2smC27979; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 20:54:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5U2slQ15540; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 20:54:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5U2a7Q11846 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 20:36:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA20539 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 21:59:41 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] H-Cost: Wench Costume In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020629113027.00d80560@pop.directcon.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 21:59:41 -0500 (CDT) On Sat, 29 Jun 2002, Margo Anderson wrote: > What I'm looking for now is some evidence of when the style > crystalized into a conventional "costume". It seems to have been > present from the earliest days of Hollywood, so I'm suspecting I > should look earlier, possibly in the 19th century. Can anyone > recommend books, websites, etc, that might help? For one stop along the path, you might check rare book rooms for a Victorian book called "Fancy Dresses Described" by Ardern Holt. This first came out in the late 1870s as a how-to manual for ladies going to costume balls, which were enormously popular at this time. The copy I examined in the Newberry Library in Chicago was a fifth edition (1887), so it was obviously a popular book! That one had some hand-colored plates, though I've seen cheaper copies that did not. I wouldn't be surprised if you could find a copy here and there on open shelving in some university libraries or old city libraries. The book included instructions for dressing up as various historical characters (Queen Elizabeth, Joan of Arc, Mary Queen of Scots), literary characters, generic occupational types, birds, plants, insects, and even inanimate objects (e.g. you become the allegory of a tea set or a deck of cards). These various costumes were apparently recognizable enough to have standard treatments, which were codified in the book. I wouldn't be surprised if there's some equivalent to your "wench" in there, perhaps under "tavern maid" or something. The costumes aren't at all historically accurate, though the author swears for the book's "correctness of descriptions and accuracy of details." They're essentially Victorian dresses jazzed up with details that evoke the Victorian idea of a particular period or place. The "medieval" description includes things like "pink gauze" and a "short skirt of striped red and white silk." For one 16th-century character, the author points out that the description is painstakingly based on a historical painting -- but the painting in question is from 1832! Which brings me to another place to look: Victorian historical paintings. This is *before* the pre-Raphaelites. Medieval and Renaissance images were very popular painting at this time, and certain "looks" were formalized in the genre. You'll find a few such paintings reproduced in "The Return to Camelot," a history of the Victorian British love affair with the medieval; you may not find a "wench," but you'll get the names of some painters whose works may be worth tracking down. Another place to look is illustrated children's books from this period. Certain fairy-tale "types," including the lower-class attractive female, were standardized in book illustration long before Hollywood. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jun 29 23:16:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA19242 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 23:16:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5U2whC28091; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 20:58:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5U2whQ16298; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 20:58:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5U2g2Q12996 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 20:42:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comcast.net (pcp670884pcs.indpnd01.mo.comcast.net [68.34.234.170]) by mtaout04.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.8 (built May 13 2002)) with ESMTP id <0GYH006FTZD7NO@mtaout04.icomcast.net> for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 22:39:07 -0400 (EDT) From: "Linda J. Thompson" Subject: Re: [h-cost] You've Come a Long Way Baby! To: h-costume@net.indra.com Message-id: <3D1E7063.3040205@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: LindaJThompson@comcast.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 21:43:47 -0500 Penny, Congratulations..You have worked incredibly hard, and diligently.. I can remember when you were in college and doing the website and all the other things you were into back then. I often wondered when you took time to sleep... I decided you just didn't bother with sleeping... :D -- Linda Thompson Visit www.seams-to-be.com where Attitude is Everything _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jun 30 00:33:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA19494 for ; Sun, 30 Jun 2002 00:33:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5U4F5C00830; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 22:15:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5U4F3Q01676; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 22:15:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5U3klQ25537 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 21:46:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dandy.net (pvil2062.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.237.62]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA01587 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 23:46:39 -0400 Message-ID: <3D1E7DE4.41FFCBB1@dandy.net> From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] H-Cost: Wench Costume References: <20020630002647.58971.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 23:41:25 -0400 Wow, those ladies have some big ol' jugs!!! (Ducking feebly at the barrage sure to come...) Mike T. > > Just look at the following and don't you tell me your first thought is not 'oh > no, not that stupid 'come hither' wench look again' *laughs* > Jan Siberichts, 1660s, Dutch: > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jun 30 00:49:59 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA19540 for ; Sun, 30 Jun 2002 00:49:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5U4VnC01469; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 22:31:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5U4VmQ04964; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 22:31:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f34.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5U47NQ29841 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 22:07:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 29 Jun 2002 21:07:17 -0700 Received: from 24.55.6.126 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 30 Jun 2002 04:07:17 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.55.6.126] From: "Maggie Secara" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] H-Cost: Wench Costume Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Jun 2002 04:07:17.0826 (UTC) FILETIME=[9FC81220:01C21FEB] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 21:07:17 -0700 Then of course there's Marie Antoinette's "milk maid" costumes. :) Seriously, there are some German stuff from the 16th century that suggests the Faire wench look, although of course I can't point to anythng more specific right now. I know this has come up before, but I can never remember the results of the discussion! MaggiRos >From: Robin Netherton >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: Re: [h-cost] H-Cost: Wench Costume >Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 21:59:41 -0500 (CDT) > > >On Sat, 29 Jun 2002, Margo Anderson wrote: > > > What I'm looking for now is some evidence of when the style > > crystalized into a conventional "costume". It seems to have been > > present from the earliest days of Hollywood, so I'm suspecting I > > should look earlier, possibly in the 19th century. Can anyone > > recommend books, websites, etc, that might help? > _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 1 06:30:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA18590 for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 06:30:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g61ABoC02364; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 04:11:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g61ABeQ16668; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 04:11:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5U697Q22988 for ; Sun, 30 Jun 2002 00:09:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A10564201BE; Sun, 30 Jun 2002 01:11:17 -0500 Message-ID: <005f01c21ffc$a8d13de0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] Cutest page Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 02:09:13 -0400 We just finished the cutest page of 1912 toddlers' fashion. http://www.costumegallery.com/Delineator/May_1912/Children/Toddlers/Del/ Some interesting things about the costumes other than the like tikes are adorable in them... two romper outfits are for either sex and a little suit that is firmly described for boys who are still in *dresses* age. As for the rompers, they were called *rompers* in the article. This is the earliest that I have seen rompers. (go on and prove me wrong) Now if you read the descriptions... it is funny, there is controversy about the most effective method of closure for the rompers ... wondering if this is dueling patterns companies over rompers' designs? BTW, all these patterns were Butterick. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 1 06:30:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA18600 for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 06:30:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g61ACxC02431; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 04:12:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g61ACwQ16950; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 04:12:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13301.mail.yahoo.com (web13301.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.37]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g5U8cQQ19032 for ; Sun, 30 Jun 2002 02:38:26 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020630083825.84156.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13301.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 30 Jun 2002 09:38:25 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] H-Cost: Wench Costume To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <3D1E7DE4.41FFCBB1@dandy.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 09:38:25 +0100 (BST) Not only that Mike, I always thought the way Siberichs had painted them standing in the water with their skirt hitched up or sitting by the water and washing her feet, is highly naughty! Study the reflection in the water... and bear in mind women usually didn't wear any drawers... Nicole - always giggling 'bout that painting --- leigh tartaglio wrote: > Wow, those ladies have some big ol' jugs!!! (Ducking feebly at the barrage > sure to > come...) Mike T. > > > > > > Just look at the following and don't you tell me your first thought is not > 'oh > > no, not that stupid 'come hither' wench look again' *laughs* > > Jan Siberichts, 1660s, Dutch: ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 1 06:31:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA18604 for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 06:31:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g61AD8C02466; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 04:13:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g61AD8Q17068; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 04:13:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.62]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5UFQgQ04584 for ; Sun, 30 Jun 2002 09:26:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 66-44-17-124.s1902.apx2.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com ([66.44.17.124] helo=oldwaylane.net) by smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #5) id 17Ogb3-0001f5-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 30 Jun 2002 11:26:41 -0400 Message-ID: <3D1F24AC.30803@oldwaylane.net> From: Judy Mitchell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:0.9.3) Gecko/20010801 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] historic "sunglasses" for Renaissance faires References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: judymitch@oldwaylane.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 11:33:00 -0400 Hi Parsla- > Certainly, it's said that Viking women displayed their wealth by all the > amber they wore, et cetera, et cetera, yeah, I've seen that sometimes in the generic books... but you know, of all the museums that I've been to (and most in Denmark), while there are some amber displayed the majority of the beads are glass. Maybe that has to do with the amazingly high quality of the Danish bead makers, but there was more glass than amber in Norway too, and the same that I've seen in the Gotland pictures that have been on the web. So I really wonder about those statements about wearing all the amber. Besides if wearing the amber was "displaying their wealth" then it stands to reason that amber was not considered so cheap. It sure did well on the trade routes. I'm still wondering how easy it would be/would have been to slice the amber thin enough to look through. And as Sandy mentioned, it doesn't absorb oil. I would still love to find out if such sun protection was really done, but I'm unfortunately still dubious. -Judy Mitchell (who loves to wear an amber bead swag between her brooches!) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 1 06:35:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA18642 for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 06:35:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g61AHpC02791; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 04:17:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g61AHoQ18275; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 04:17:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f84.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.84]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5UIUhQ17605 for ; Sun, 30 Jun 2002 12:30:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 30 Jun 2002 11:30:37 -0700 Received: from 24.55.6.126 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 30 Jun 2002 18:30:37 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.55.6.126] From: "Maggie Secara" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Jun 2002 18:30:37.0915 (UTC) FILETIME=[3B0A62B0:01C22064] Subject: [h-cost] Movie title Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 11:30:37 -0700 I can't remember which list it was that someone asked about a movie that might be called something like "Thee, Hannah" so I'm just going to start with this one :) I think the movie you're thinking of is "Friendly Persuasion", 1956, Gary Cooper, Dorothy McGuire Cheers, MaggiRos ~The Elizabethan World is at http://ren.dm.net _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 1 06:52:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA18710 for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 06:52:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g61AYaC03319; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 04:34:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g61AYZQ21580; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 04:34:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f124.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.124]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5UJ8fQ26048 for ; Sun, 30 Jun 2002 13:08:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 30 Jun 2002 12:08:36 -0700 Received: from 66.74.23.64 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 30 Jun 2002 19:08:36 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.74.23.64] From: "jessica stier" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Jun 2002 19:08:36.0640 (UTC) FILETIME=[89443A00:01C22069] Subject: [h-cost] Shoulder Roll "tutorial" website-feedback please Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 19:08:36 +0000 Great tutorial! Your pattern and directions are very clear and you point out some really good tips such as tacking the folds of the roll to the shape you want and sewing the felt on with out overlapping the seams. I think that I feel confident enough to attempt this now! Good job & thanks! :) jessica _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 1 06:52:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA18715 for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 06:52:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g61AYhC03330; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 04:34:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g61AYgQ21612; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 04:34:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host16.dnsdomain.net (host16.dnsdomain.net [66.197.224.160]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5UJm8Q04703 for ; Sun, 30 Jun 2002 13:48:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lithiate by host16.dnsdomain.net with local (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17Okfw-0007pN-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 30 Jun 2002 15:48:00 -0400 From: "Sarah Lorraine" To: h-costume X-Mailer: NeoMail 1.25 X-IPAddress: 216.224.145.160 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Message-Id: X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - host16.dnsdomain.net X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32030 32030] / [32030 32030] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - host16.dnsdomain.net Subject: [h-cost] Info regarding nun's habits... Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 15:48:00 -0400 Or more specifically, the construction of a certain kind of veil worn by some orders of Catholic nuns (not being Catholic, I can't tell you which orders, other than it seems to be a fairly common style). I found this image: http://www.civilization.ca/hist/hats/images/l_2799.gif and the veil I'm interested in is the one on the lower left. The reason I'm interested in it's construction (as opposed to the spiffy 19th century veil arrangement) is that it looks darn close to a 16th century french hood. If anyone has any information on where I can find out how this veil might be constructed (I'm not worried about authenticity at this point), I'd love to hear it! I saw some nuns in my neighborhood the other day wearing just such a hood, but I felt it might be inappropriate to strike up a conversation and ask to see their headgear inside and out... -- Sarah http://www.elizabethanlady.com "Absence of evidence, isn't necessarily evidence of absence." -Carl Sagan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 1 07:40:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA18941 for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 07:40:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g61BLAC09403; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 05:21:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g61BL6Q06948; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 05:21:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grape.dcsi.net.au (grape.dcsi.net.au [203.22.132.9]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g61AtpQ25985 for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 04:55:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sandy (ppp-371.dialup.war.dcsi.net.au [203.55.67.117]) by grape.dcsi.net.au (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id g61AtjqQ029492 for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 20:55:47 +1000 Message-Id: <200207011055.g61AtjqQ029492@grape.dcsi.net.au> From: "Frojel Gotlandica" To: "h-costume@indra.com" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail 2000 Standard (2.20.2380) For Windows 2000 (5.0.2195;2) In-Reply-To: <3D1F24AC.30803@oldwaylane.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: [h-cost] historic "sunglasses" for Renaissance faires X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g61AtpQ25985 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Frojel Gotlandica" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2002 20:55:45 +1000 The wealth of Viking women was denoted more by the number of keys they carried, each key being for a chest of goods and by the property they owned rather than by amber beads, blue glass beads were worth a lot more than amber beads and subsequently held in higher esteem. Not to say that amber was not precious but it was reasonably common. We must also remember that gilt jewellery and gold were much more precious and harder to acquire than amber. The richer the grave in gold/gilt and silver the more glass beads and less amber. But still I love amber it is so pretty and versatile and one can do so much with it. Sandy >Hi Parsla- >> Certainly, it's said that Viking women displayed their wealth by all the >> amber they wore, et cetera, et cetera, > yeah, I've seen that sometimes in the generic books... but >you know, of all the museums that I've been to (and most in >Denmark), while there are some amber displayed the majority >of the beads are glass. Maybe that has to do with the >amazingly high quality of the Danish bead makers, but there >was more glass than amber in Norway too, and the same that >I've seen in the Gotland pictures that have been on the web. >So I really wonder about those statements about wearing all >the amber. Besides if wearing the amber was "displaying >their wealth" then it stands to reason that amber was not >considered so cheap. It sure did well on the trade routes. > > I'm still wondering how easy it would be/would have been to >slice the amber thin enough to look through. And as Sandy >mentioned, it doesn't absorb oil. I would still love to find >out if such sun protection was really done, but I'm >unfortunately still dubious. > > -Judy Mitchell > (who loves to wear an amber bead swag between her brooches!) > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Fr”jel Gotlandica Viking Re-enactment Society. http://www.frojel.com/ frojel@frojel.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume